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[Music] ID Ben welcome to my podcast thank you for having me um thank you for letting
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me drink wine while we do this it's um we're recording this uh yeah 1:00 in the
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afternoon so I'm I'm not having a I would normally join you for a wine but
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uh lunchtime wine I'm not working tonight you know um so why not you're you're not doing not doing a lot to
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break the um Irish stereotype well I'm I'm drinking wine so at least it gives
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an air of sophistication to my drinking that's true so when did you arrive uh
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day before yesterday I got in yeah so what day is it today it's Thursday I got
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in Tuesday morning I had a little bit of a nap and then I went out for a meal and
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a drink with my good friend Ben Hurley kiwi comic and then uh yesterday was just interviews all morning and then an
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episode of seven days in the evening and today so far has been interviews all morning and this evening I am I'm I'm
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I'm left to my own devices I did have a gig I was supposed to do a gig this evening but it was not selling so they
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canceled it well thank you for your honesty yeah there's no point in pretending anything
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other and what happen happened yeah and you supposed to say like scheduling conflicts or yeah they just we weer sing
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yeah I feel like you're at the um you've been doing it long enough now and you're
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at that age or stage in life where yeah you you don't give a give a [ __ ] um well
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I do but I don't I guess I'm not as excited about my own career as I used to
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be like I genuinely think at this point if somebody said hey we've decided to
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give you your own TV show I'd be like why why would you do that what what do
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you well why would you no give it to one of the young people um yeah but the the um the rest
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of the shows it's strange that you can come to a country and one show won't do
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well but then a lot of other shows will do particularly well it's fascinating
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and what's also really weird is how you can do you know the same show you can be
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in the same room and do you know do a week there and Tuesday Wednesday is great and then Thursday is just awful
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and then Friday Saturday is amazing again you can just have one night in the in the in the same room and and just I I
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I remember just doing a Monday Tuesday Wednesday I mean that's not a there that's not a great start Monday Tuesday
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wday sold out every night at the Norwich Playhouse 400 seats and Monday went great and Tuesday was awful and
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Wednesday was great and it's the same show the same room the same town the same number of people and weirdly it's
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just it's almost like everybody met up beforehand and just said let's be a [ __ ]
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audience tonight yeah yeah shall we we all just should we just not laugh at anything yeah let's do that it's so odd
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and it's and it does really keep you on your toes it has to be said what what is
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that anything to do with the comedian on stage or is it the energy in the room or
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as the comedian in question I I feel no like I mean I don't I'm not going to
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deny there are nights where you are more on it than other nights and it could just be something you're not even aware
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of that you said early doors that affects how a show can go but no it it just I mean you talk to any comedian
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about it it's it's really weird and but in a way quite exciting that you can
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never tell how an audience are going to be and you can go to a town and have a great time and then go back to that town
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on the next tour and maybe you were there on a Friday night the first time and then you go back and it's Tuesday
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and and they're they're really unresponsive or another time you go you're better going midweek and you're
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every time your sample size as it were is never big enough to absolutely say with certainty this town you need to
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play that venue and you need to play it during the week or play out the week or whatever it is you know cuz it just it
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it just audiences can just really vary but you you've been doing this for so
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many so many decades now uh I mean you've definitely done your 10,000 hours and some uh you must be a when you go on
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any stage anywhere in the world you must be comfortable that whatever hole you end up in you can pull yourself out of
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it you've got enough tricks in the bag yeah um I remember touring New Zealand a
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few years ago good few years ago I had a show called different class and I guess
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it was 2008 and everywhere I went the show worked it was it was a really nice show to do I really enjoyed doing it it
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was incredibly well reviewed and well received by audiences and then I got to omaru and I did the first three jokes
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from the show and I got absolutely nothing just and it was the only place and it's the only time with any show not
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just that show the only time where I've just gone right and just two minutes in
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just scrunched it up threw it away and just did a completely different show than the one I was planning on doing and
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you know I mean I've been doing a 30 years now at the time I've been doing it
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20 years maybe you know 18 years it's nice when you have a back catalog that
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you can draw from in these situations but it was the first time that ever happened to me where where the show
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didn't just not go as well like it just wasn't working for whatever reason and I
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just tore it up and just did a completely different show to the show I've been doing everywhere else on that
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tour and and the the good people of omaru loved the old material they seemed happy
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with the old material they seemed happy with with the greatest hits I'd never
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been there before they were and because it's funny then just since I've been
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here I actually I did an interview with a DJ in Queenstown he was at that show and he couldn't remember he thought it
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was Timaru I said no I've never been at Timaru it was definitely Wu and uh he
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had no idea that that even happened like he remembered it was maybe a slow start
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but he was he was completely unaware that it was a different show to the when I had done elsewhere but yeah I I just
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completely the show that show different class was all about being not never never feeling particularly I didn't grow
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up middle class or working class I'm just I'm from this in between thing
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where I don't really and I and and so it's all it was all about class all
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about how middle class people do this and Working Class People do that and how I've never felt comfortable identifying
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with either class you know we had we were doing too well to be working class we weren't doing well enough to be
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middle class like that was just what it felt like and and what summed it up was that in Ireland that means you didn't
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own a horse you know that that's it like if you're middle class your dad's a doctor your
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M's laor bid L you get a horse you know if you're you're all living on a in a
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caravan you get a horse anywhere in between no horse for you you know and uh what did your dad do for a living fixes
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airplanes you get a dog and yeah I'm glad you're laughing people War Room No
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in fact somebody even saids I heard somebody go well I guess that's funny in
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Ireland they literally said that and I'm like okay this is not flying and it was a really weird it was the
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first time it felt like I'm sorry to the people Wu I'm not going back so [ __ ] you
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but it just was it felt like anything I was doing that was out with the personal
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experience with the people in the audience they just weren't going to they weren't going to go with you they
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weren't going to go oh is that what it's like in Ireland oh that's interesting
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that's a funny way you've encapsulated something that happened in Europe they
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would it was like no I want something I can relate to something about you're to me [ __ ] yeah so when
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when was your cuz you are a regular here and you've got a massive fan base in New
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Zealand I think part of that is um part of that definitely like we we do appreciate when artists come to New
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Zealand from a long way away but that's only going to get your your foot in the
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door like it needs to be a good show beyond that but when did you first come here was it 90 87 8797 97 oh that's when
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you went viral you went this is pre went viral before the internet yeah yeah so what East Side Bar
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that's exactly the one yeah Benny dibit the bman at the East Side Bar you even
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remember his name oh course I remember his name it was uh yeah we had done the um
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there was an opening Gala a big charity gala thing for the Comedy Festival and then the after party was in this East
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this bar and there was only one guy working behind the bar so he was a bit overstretched which was his fault
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because he was the manager and decided he could do it on his own but he was just really rude he was just incredibly
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rude like he he threatened to punch the guy next to me John hegley who's a performance poet like who's you know
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even nerdier than I am uh didn't like the way he had waved at him to try and
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get served so he threatened to punch him like he was just incredibly rude I hadn't been to New Zealand before I had
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just been in Australia we were trying to tip him which I didn't realize you don't
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do in New Zealand and New Zealand bar men apparently don't like it when you even try to tip them they oh I think
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they do very much now when when you pay when you pay by fosle crit card now it even gives you a tipping option right
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well I think in 97 they it was apparently we offended him by trying to tip him um so yeah he was just really
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really rude so after a while I I I I I let him know that he was being really rude and uh he didn't take kindly to
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that so he threw us out and he told me I was in the wrong country so then I I was
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doing the show then the following night and one thing I have noticed about kiwi audience is and I've always since as
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well is that when you ask questions if you ask like a general question K audience don't really want to
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join in they don't want to answer they're quite reserved I said oh well you're still not as rude as the bar man
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at the East Side Bar and everybody laughed and I didn't realize this that I'd hit on something that he was known
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as a rude man so then I started doing jokes about him I said you know he told me I was in the wrong country and they
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all booed and said I said well here's what you do then after the show everybody go out of that bar order a big
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round of drinks when they put him on the on the counter and say that'll be you
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know 80 bucks go oh I'm sorry I've just realized I'm in the wrong country and
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leave it was a joke apparently somebody actually did it I don't actually believe
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anyone actually did it um but he said that they did and he was threatened to Sue and I was on the
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newsman threatens to sue comedian it was literally I was interviewed by the the evening news and I went on
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homes he took me down to the bar to try and set things straight and I still the guy still wouldn't apologize so he what
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they wanted me to apologize I go no uh so he still threatened to sue he never sued because he didn't have a legal leg
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to stand on but the whole thing caused it to just be a big like you say I went viral before going viral was even a
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thing and it just sold out my run and it stood me in very good stad then every time I came back I think people have
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forgotten the actual incident now but I think I'm just weirdly in more in the public
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Consciousness than I think yeah not a comedian I can't remember can't remember
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why that that was why well your recall of that story is so good like for 27 years ago even even the fact that you
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can still remember homes everything sticks in my head everything I I let nothing
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go I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing oh and you you got
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engaged in Kuda that's very true that was in that was in ' 06 I think it was
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yeah uh in the Green Dolphin in Kota and it was we'd been well watching that day
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had we or were we doing it the next day I think we were doing it the next day I can't remember we' been along the beach
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and looked at seals anyway yeah it was an awesome day and uh and then I yeah posted her and she said no for a joke I
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remember that because then that became that became then the closing joke of the of the following tour because uh she
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said no for a joke is that when when so she was your publicist uh no she was a publicist and and then she became my
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publicist I like I didn't meet her that way like she was my girlfriend but and
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she's working as my and then and then I I was paying somebody else to be my publicist and it was like well people
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were contacting her for interviews because so yeah he having having already been my girlfriend she then she then
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became my publicist yeah um but uh yeah that was I remember that as well because
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then they they came over and I the wa the waiter came over and I said we've just gotten engaged she was like oh
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there's the Bell there was nothing there was no kind of they were they were well we want to
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close up I don't know if if it's a thing that people do they pretend they' just
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gotten engaged to see if they can get free drinks out of a place but we totally had just gotten engaged we just
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got engaged and she couldn't have given less of a [ __ ] so as as someone that has
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spent quite a bit of time here and um you've probably seen a lot more of the
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country than what a lot of new zealanders have possibly um what are yeah what are some sort of observational
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quirks what things do you notice about new zealanders that we may not notice about ourselves uh I don't well there is
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your I I find doing comedy for a a people is an excellent way of of getting under the the skin of a place and yeah
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you don't like to talk out a turn it's a it's an interesting thing I tell a story
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it ended up being in M show it was I think I was at Sky City and I came out in Oakland and I came out and it was a
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Tuesday night night I'm trying to get the audience going and it's it's always
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that tough ask on a Tuesday trying to get people Rowdy you know like hey come on we got work in the morning we don't
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care all this sort of stuff hey Tuesday people make some Tuesday noise and they just weren't getting on board and it
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took a a good while before I got a first decent laugh out of out of them and then
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you know then the gig was fine eventually and then I only realized after I left the stage only after the
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show was over did I find out it was Wednesday and that to me sums up New Zealand in that any other country in the
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world within 30 seconds so G it's Wednesday you idiots but the Kei was they just that was 700 people just sat
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there just going it's not Tuesday is it we're not going to I'm not going to be
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the one to I don't want to tell him probably just means wi die that's all
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are we are we are we hickers no no no you're absolutely not you're not you
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don't even join in when it would be helpful as in to correct the fact that somebody thinks it's Tuesday you were we
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will you will happily let a comedian labor under the misapprehension it's Tuesday when it's actually Wednesday for
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an entire show and that's that is genuinely not something most people most nations would would would do now maybe
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it's un maybe it's harsh of me to judge an entire country based on what those
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700 people did that night but I I think it's fair because I also as I notic like
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if you talk to somebody directly in the audience they'll give you what you need
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but if you ask like a general question like has anybody here broken up with somebody recently or or does anybody
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here uh you know any who here has got kids whatever it is just in general people just don't want to know I think
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for for a lot of new zealanders I think that's probably like um our worst fear
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like being singled out at a show like that yeah I don't I don't like to pick
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on people I don't like to just make make you know make make fun of people who
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paid money to come and see me it's just I you know it just helps to you know if
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I've got a joke I always just like to build in a bit into the show like it lasts last tour you I was talking about
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me kids and and I had a thing about not being able to understand what children are into and so the question I would ask
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somebody in the audience if they had kids is is there something that their kids are really really into that they
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themselves don't understand that they themselves don't you know that was and
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that was just the and it was then because then I would do my stuff about how you know but it was it was just to
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see get get somebody else's sort of perspective first before I then move on to the routine and I I would never take
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the piss out of the person it was always just to see what comedy could be generated by having a conversation about
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the topic other times I've asked questions like have you ever U met a celebrity and have them and be
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disappointed have them turn out to be a bit of a dick which is an interesting question because it's incredible how
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little a celebrity has to do for a person to consider them a dick power is it's really Inc it's like oh yeah I
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asked Robert din for his autograph and he didn't seem very happy about it did
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he give you his autograph yeah but what do you want you want him to adopt you it takes very
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little oh that's funny do you um oh yeah you mentioned your kids before do you do
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you still do the thing where where you've got the the map of the world oh where it Dad at the moment it's a big
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map in New Zealand obviously how how old are the kids now 12 and 13 right and yeah we just spent a week together me
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and my wife and the kids just hiking and doing outdoorsy stuff in Scotland which
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is a beautiful way to walk a trip to New Zealand go to the highlands of Scotland
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first just to ease yourself in to the to the landscape um because yeah it's a
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very odd thing about this country the idea that it was once a completely different landscape and then Scottish
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people came and went get the Sheep let's turn this into Scotland yeah pretty much
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oh you've been to denan haven't you yeah I have been to den I'm time I went to
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Don it was so weird because myself and my wife actually met in Edinburgh so that's another weird
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uh sort of echo in the fact that we got engaged in New Zealand and having met in
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Edinburgh at the Edinburgh Fringe to then go to Duneden and have which is like this weird Edinburgh based theme
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park of the town right yeah it's such an odd thing to do and you're going to go because at
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first you go what a weird thing for new zealanders to do and they go well they didn't do it the the the Scots did it
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what a weird thing for Scottish people to do to go all the way to the other side of the world and go let's recreate
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the town we've just come from it's it's the equivalent of like Irish people who
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who you know who move to the states and then just spend their whole time drinking an Irish bars in Boston because
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it's the most hor Place imaginable well I remember going to play in San Francisco and and a bunch of people from
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my hometown people who went to my school people from my town and the town R like
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swords B BR and BR all they were all living in San Francisco and they were all all drinking in the same bar and
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some of them were all working there and they were all they were all working as like carpenters and stuff like that but
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they were all just hanging out with each other like they did because you you've
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come a long way to not hang out with even that the Americans oh my God that is such New Zealand things about new
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zealanders as their WR a pack passage you do like an OE or a gap here they'll
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go to go to London live in a a flat and Hammersmith with eight other kiwis yeah and then go and watch um 660 play
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Live it's like come home come home and get a job yeah um where oh where are you going
00:19:02
this time that you haven't been previously Queen que first wonderful yeah um I don't think I've been to inber
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Cargo before I think deden was previously the furthest south I went I could be and sincerest apologies to the people of
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in Carle if I had been there before if I was it was over 20 years ago um yeah but yeah I think Queenstown is
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is will will will be a first oh fabulous which is beautiful unfortunately I'm
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literally just there for the night I've got I've got gigs either side of it yeah
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and you do you still enjoy like the travel and the time away from home it's a long time this trpe you're here for
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ages yeah I don't enjoy it as much as I used to got to be honest with you like
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when me and Claire my wife when we first started coming here we loved it and we genuinely considered moving here we were
00:19:52
we were thinking when we first traveled around here and when we got engaged and all that kind of stuff we just thought
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you know what let's just cash out let's go home do do real do I'm a celebrity
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get me out of here do strict do whatever just sell out do whatever you can make a
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pile and just do go in sort of semi-retired to New Zealand and then I think we had kids and then things
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changed because my kids represent 2third of my parents grandchildren and I felt like taking them to the other side of
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the world would just have been a bit cruel to my folks so so we we we never did it but we genuinely considered for
00:20:30
some time moving uh to to New Zealand and and it used to be great because it used to be you could just travel around
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and as long as the gig covered the travel it was fine we had no kids we had no dependence was just we just do it so
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you would go to a town like Napier is a perfect example it's a really nice town
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and we do about hiking the the kekas I think is the the mountain range that's
00:20:56
near it that we went we went and did some hiking there there but only about 80 people came to the show but it didn't
00:21:01
really matter because it was a nice hotel we had nice meal all that so it's you you think of it you view it kind of
00:21:08
like a working holiday you know as long as the other gigs still pay your mortgage it's fine now I'm here on my
00:21:15
own now it's like I don't get to took my kids in tonight I don't get to see now
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everything has to pay you you you become a lot more militant and the fun of the travel a lot of that is sucked out of it
00:21:28
so like n no offense nap it was a perfectly good time but people just didn't show up like the last time I was
00:21:33
there it was a Saturday night and I got a 100 people 100 people on a Saturday night it's just it's not enough if you
00:21:40
can do 700 in ockland then you do you become really militant about it and the whole thing of oh be but it's a nice
00:21:47
place to go and we'll have a lovely lunch is gone because I'm on my own and
00:21:52
everything has to justify itself from from a financial perspective as it were you
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know which does stuck some of the fun out of what is supposed to be quite a fun job you know but it's it's just it's
00:22:04
just the way you've got to view things changes what what does what does your
00:22:07
down time look like what are you doing I've got it I know I've got a couple of
00:22:11
days off I've got when I'm in Nelson I've got the day off before and the day
00:22:15
and the day after Nelson so I'm definitely going to try and do a bit of hiking then and then I think then
00:22:19
there's also another point where I'm on the North Island where I've got like a a
00:22:23
Monday Tuesday Wednesday off that I'm going to try and and and again maybe do
00:22:28
a hike or do something not just sit in a bar your hotel much as I love to do sit
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in much as going and drinking is a great way to experience culture I I am determined to try and do
00:22:42
something more than just get drunk and sleep it off the next day yeah oh good stuff oh cool well it is wonderful to
00:22:47
have you in the country okay let's go um we'll go go right back to the early
00:22:51
years first of all um like why comedy are are you naturally funny were you from a funny family yeah yeah oh yeah
00:22:58
from a very and I always thought my older brother was the funnier one uh but he always cites that like a teacher in
00:23:06
his school once told him off and said you're not going to it's all well and
00:23:09
good being funny you're not going to make a living doing it so pay attention
00:23:12
or something like that and he said that that just that just stuck with him I think it's just an excuse because he was
00:23:16
just too chicken [ __ ] to get on the stage Stephen um good camera technique by the
00:23:23
way thank you thank you uh um but yeah we were always very you know it was always sitting around around the dinner
00:23:32
table people just talking over each other and stuff like that and everybody's buying for attention um so
00:23:39
yeah and and I remember from a very young age listening to Comedy watching it on TV and and and we had an album we
00:23:48
had a a vinyl Billy Connelly album there all right kids vinyl amazing and it was called The Pick of Billy Cony
00:23:57
it was it was a best of comp from his previous albums and like your Mar show yeah exactly and uh it was great and but
00:24:06
I I can still see it I can remember sitting and listening to it and me dad there dipping a Biscuit in his tea and
00:24:13
laughing along to this comedy album it was and being captivated by it and I I I Had It Off by heart and I would I would
00:24:24
recite it to other people with a in a bad Scottish accent you know and and and then there was we also my brother had we
00:24:33
had some not the 9:00 news albums and some Monty Pyon albums and I genuinely would put them on and I would genuinely
00:24:40
mime along to them in the same way in the same I I wasn't a completely weird
00:24:43
kid I also would ER guitar with the tennis rackets and pretend to be you know an iron maiden or pretend to be
00:24:49
Prince or pretend to be Freddy Mercury in my bedroom but I also used to pretend to be Rowan Atkinson and Billy Connelly
00:24:56
and Mel Smith you know and and and and talk along and mime along to to comedy albums when I was a kid yeah I I suppose
00:25:04
um did you do did you like put on shows for other family members and steal those
00:25:08
jokes and recite them did not did not I thought cuz I wondered if maybe you'd
00:25:11
get validation from you the laughs no there wasn't one well and because without being too pretentious I my I
00:25:20
would say I had an advanced in interesting comedy so but look by the time I got to University people reciting
00:25:27
Monty Python we were already irritating as far as I I I was I was reing Monty Python when I was in high school and
00:25:35
getting smacked around the head for us because I was ahead of me time it's all
00:25:40
well and good when you're 18 19 20 to be M you do that [ __ ] when you're 14
00:25:45
that'll get teeth knocked out what are you talking about shut up bleeding what
00:25:53
Paris what I don't get it yeah so that was people talk about you know doing comedy to avoid being bullied I got
00:26:01
bullied for doing comedy so what what did what did you um yeah I I feel like even if anyone that
00:26:09
has um like the idea of doing comedy as a career it's still got to be like a
00:26:13
plan B like you need a a plan a what did you want to do as a plan a gardening and
00:26:18
I was a and I it's actually I'll be I'll be honest one of my greatest regrets is
00:26:23
that I didn't go to university and study something that would have been of of
00:26:27
help to my Act ual career I should have done TV production maybe Film Production
00:26:33
drama all of these would have been better bet but to for me as an 18-year-old in
00:26:40
1990 they weren't proper courses they weren't they they weren't fallback
00:26:46
position type that was Airy fairy nonsense and and I had yeah I kind of had it drilled into me and it's one
00:26:54
thing I won't do to my kids is this idea that that's not a proper job because the
00:27:00
fact is you know a degree in I mean it was always a joke of what do you say to a drama
00:27:05
graduate some Big Mac exactly you know that's it's Universal yeah um but you
00:27:13
know there's a lot of there's a lot of transferable skills you get from doing
00:27:17
something like drama you know a lot of people have jobs real jobs where they have to do presentations you know whe if
00:27:23
you're going to be go into teaching or in business just having to do presentations for meetings and stuff
00:27:29
like that the kind of skills you learn to drama are actually very useful or you know you go into you you don't have to
00:27:34
be a movie star just cuz you're did drama you can be you know you can be a Jobing actor you can be somebody who
00:27:39
does corporate videos you can be you know you can and if you do something like Film Production and stuff like that
00:27:44
you can end up working I mean at the time you didn't know this but you end up
00:27:48
working help producing podcasts you producing you know just working in theaters you know there's a million of
00:27:54
them just lighting there's all this sort of stuff exactly you can do or you or
00:27:57
you teaches you know it's it's not but for me it was like that's not a proper
00:28:02
job so I did gardening I I did a degree in hor I didn't actually do a degree
00:28:06
because I dropped out but I was I was enrolled in doing a degree in horo because I worked a bit with my uncle as
00:28:11
a gardener I thought this is a thing I can be self-employed I can work when I want to work and then I can pursue
00:28:16
another career you know and try and get into the Arts on my own time if I'm My
00:28:22
Own Boss and a good way to be my own boss would be do something like being a garden so that was why I did it and yeah
00:28:28
I didn't but as I did a TV show then with Jonathan Ross a panel show and he introduced me
00:28:36
and he said and before becoming a comedian he was actually going to be a gardener think about it Ed if youd stuck
00:28:41
with gardening instead of going into comedy you might have your own TV show by now
00:28:48
is how how much of it was yeah it's funny you're talking about that yeah um
00:28:52
yeah you're pouring yourself another wine you're the second guest to do that
00:28:55
I had um Paul Henry who you know yeah around here a few weeks ago for a chat um and just what you were talking about
00:29:01
before about the drama thing that's how he s of got his break into TV he was
00:29:04
like into drama and theater as a kid and it sort of evolved into a wildly successful TV career here in New Zealand
00:29:11
well I I was working in the Student Union I I was I got into student politics I wasn't really like like
00:29:18
political I was in Running of end you know entertainments and services and I was the vice president so I was in
00:29:23
charge of you know the bars and all that kind of carryon but it um you know it was what you you got you got paid to
00:29:29
take a year out from your studies to to to to run the Student Union it was it was the most awesome year of my life I
00:29:35
was 20 years old and I had an office above a nightclub basically and uh and I got paid to live like a student without
00:29:44
having to go to college without having to do classes so it was awesome um but in the course of that uh you know I was
00:29:51
sort of funny guy and I was working with this blow called Chris Stewart who was an intern and he was was started he
00:29:58
started writing down he was friends he was an american guy and he was friends with a guy back in the States who worked
00:30:02
as a comedian professionally and he started writing down any funny things I used to say in meetings and stuff and he
00:30:10
we present them to me at the end of the month these are the funny things you've
00:30:14
said you said this and this heads of the department meeting you said this at this
00:30:17
financial services meeting these are funny things and I I'd forgotten them and I'm reading them I'm going that's a
00:30:22
funny joke like I'm giggling because I and I go he says you you need to be a
00:30:28
comedian and I went okay and I I bought a Dictaphone and I started and I there was nowhere I was living in Glasgow at
00:30:34
the time there was there were no comedy clubs you know for new people at the time there had been and and there are
00:30:41
again now but at just right then at that window there were there was nowhere for
00:30:45
for somebody new to To Tread the boards so I set up a comedy club uh and MCD it and and just learned how to do it that
00:30:54
way that is crazy yeah this this um there's probably parallels between um Ireland and New Zealand like there
00:31:01
there's the classic here on Queen Street now there's like TV shows like you know
00:31:05
ripoff panel shows like seven days which you've been on and have you been paying
00:31:09
attention task mask stuff like that but there was um if you wanted to be a comedian in the late ' 80s early 990s
00:31:14
there was really no opportunity MH whatsoever so how how much of yous was natural Talent versus hard
00:31:22
work I'm going to say it must be mainly natural talent because I've never worked
00:31:25
hard at anything in my life I don't know like if you see you wik Wikipedia page it's got like a list of
00:31:31
all the shows you've done and it's an exhausting list now yeah yeah um um yeah I because I I did it for a
00:31:39
couple of months just in Scotland in Glasgow and then I moved to London and that was a real eye opener when I moved
00:31:46
to London because suddenly I realized I was not as funny as I thought I was because just being on the London circuit
00:31:51
was a very competitive place and you know I had written routines that I thought were original and funny and then
00:31:58
I got there and found it was like three other people doing the same subject matter much better and I really had to
00:32:04
find a new gear um so it was I mean I look back now and I was 21 and I just up stumped and
00:32:14
moved to London with hardly any money I got a loan of like 400 quid um and just did it from there just I was on the
00:32:24
welfare basically I didn't know anyone in London I just moved there and I do
00:32:29
look back and go I would never have the arrogance or the confidence to do something like that now but I think at
00:32:34
21 you just do it you just go what the hell um yeah so it was quite a it was quite a bold quite a cocky move and then
00:32:43
it still took well over a year and even that was pretty quick but you know you got waiting this like six months just to
00:32:49
get an open spot at the comedy store and then even if that goes well it's another
00:32:52
six months before you get a half spot and then if that even if that goes well it's still another six months before you
00:32:58
get it 20 minutes and get you know get paid so it takes doesn't matter how good
00:33:02
you are it's going to take you at least a year and a half to two years to make a
00:33:06
living so you were quite good early on you must have been okay to to get that sort of um it did it hit pretty quickly
00:33:13
you know I um I I I yeah I was pretty pretty Speedy in in in getting established on on the
00:33:20
circuit um so yeah I was making a living I think I signed off the Dole in about nine months and then I was still on
00:33:26
housing benefit until about 18 months in and then uh and then I was self- sustaining after that and it's the only
00:33:33
career I've ever had I've done jobs I've done gardening I've done office temping
00:33:37
I've done babysitting but yet from the age of 21 it was the first time I had an
00:33:42
actual profession what about um uh being on the dog so you you and I are similar ages um
00:33:49
I'm from a very middle class family in a place called P north um if I if I was on
00:33:54
the doll for any length of time it would have been um IM shame my family yeah yeah no well my family just said said
00:34:01
they were happy to support me while I was at University and if I wanted to move home that was fine as well but they
00:34:07
were not going to support me if I was just going to gallivant around L fancying myself as being a comedian
00:34:14
that I had to do under my own steam so yeah that was that was hence the the the welfare and it was hard I'm I like I
00:34:25
remember having a cancel an open spot because I didn't didn't have the money
00:34:28
to get there cuz my do check which was J to arrive on the Wednesday morning didn't come and it was you know it was
00:34:33
only God I can't remember remember what it was it must have been 35 a week I
00:34:37
think it was it was it was nothing and like I literally survived on just you know potatoes that sounds so Irish but
00:34:47
they're so they're cheap you know and you can just I had an oven so you can
00:34:51
roast him and but yeah I had I remember one night yes having to cancel open spot
00:34:58
cuz it was in North London and I literally didn't have the money for the tube fair to get there and and the guy
00:35:05
didn't believe me when I found him because Ireland was in the World Cup it was 1994 and Ireland were in the world
00:35:12
cup that year and there was an Ireland and I don't give a [ __ ] about football I
00:35:15
had no interest in it uh but he thought I was counseling because because I wanted to watch Ireland and I did I did
00:35:21
watch the match at home cuz I had nothing else to do and I sit drinking a pint of water cuz I didn't have the
00:35:25
money for beer honestly I was I was flat broke um so that was no fun London is not a fun place when you have no money
00:35:35
yeah and that's expensive s by the way I love the word gallivanting how much
00:35:39
ganting is anyone doing on 35 qu away no none at all but in their in their mind that's what I was doing um well you must
00:35:46
have like um yeah accelerated quite quickly because I I I was watching a clip on YouTube yesterday of you in the
00:35:51
US um on Late Night with Conan O'Brien in 2000 funnily enough um you're your
00:35:58
this is a year before 911 um a big part of your routine is about like Aviation Security and terorist sneak with yeah
00:36:07
and and that and then and then I adopted that routine after 911 to to to make it
00:36:12
more relevant and more topical and it was it was actually like a really good routine but then it became very quickly
00:36:18
very hack because security got so increased suddenly everybody had a routine about about airc airplane
00:36:25
security and suddenly mine look but I was there first cuz cuz I was flying a lot from Ireland to the UK and because
00:36:33
of you know the situation back then you know early 90s it was still the troubles
00:36:38
were still very much a thing so so I was I genuinely had had stuff about it early
00:36:44
early doors but then then because I remember then doing it at the just phop Festival in Montreal and kind of getting
00:36:53
slagged off by the paper as it being really hack because by then everybody was doing it and I felt like going no I
00:37:00
was doing it first though I I do it for ages ago mine's the best routine yeah I
00:37:06
got yeah I was doing it a year before the towers got blown up it's amazing so
00:37:11
um so something like that happens a booking like that on a a late night TV show in America bear in mind like this
00:37:17
is 24 years ago so there was no Tik Tok we may have had Myspace I don't know
00:37:22
maybe not even I don't think it was no Myspace didn't come along until sort of
00:37:28
2003 there so this is a big deal yeah it was weird cuz the it was the produ the segment producer Frank Smiley had been
00:37:37
just on holiday he had been to the kileny Comedy Festival and had seen me there and I think he'd seen me Jim Owen
00:37:44
and Shan Hughes he he he he liked us he and he wanted all of us to to to go and do the show and then somebody from the
00:37:51
Aspen Comedy Festival saw me then at the Edinburgh Fringe because it was then I mean now it's 10 grand at the time was a
00:37:57
grand for the work visa so between the Aspen festival and Conan O'Brien they
00:38:02
got me the work visa they they they pulled the resources on that so I did Aspen Festival ended ended Late Night
00:38:08
with con O'Brien and I ended up doing I think five episodes of Late Night with
00:38:11
con O'Brien but yeah and it didn't and they all went well I think was one was a
00:38:17
bit ropey but they all pretty much went well but it didn't nothing materialized
00:38:24
you know what I mean so you get off yeah you get off stage you think your life's
00:38:26
going to change yeah it was like because it was in the days when a million people
00:38:30
watched this which in a country of over 300 million is not a lot of people but then it didn't have that online thing of
00:38:38
that then it gets it then it's on Instagram the next day and then or you know the idea of going viral because you
00:38:44
were on a TV show like that that didn't happen then so yeah it's it was I know
00:38:52
it sounds ridiculous it was cuz if you do a show like that and then you die in your ass and get cut from the show show
00:38:57
your career is over because everyone will know everyone in the industry will know that happened to you but if you
00:39:03
just do a good set in front of fine yeah oh maybe we'll book him from this comedy
00:39:10
club like I got got to play a couple of comedy clubs it's incredibly high stakes
00:39:13
where you have everything to lose and not really a great deal to gain but it was nice it was it was an interesting
00:39:20
experience in getting to meet con o Brian was pretty awesome but uh yeah it's uh cuz then years later like my my
00:39:27
friend Daniel SLO you know he does it but it's it's able to snowball into a
00:39:32
point where he gets to then Tour the States off the back of it um that just didn't seem like an option uh when I
00:39:38
when I did it back in the 90s yeah it's interesting what was that experience like who who was on the
00:39:44
episodes with you what happens backage so I got to you mingle with anyone there was people I really like I got to meet
00:39:50
Kevin nean who who used to be on Saturday Night Live was a very funny comedian um and it was yeah it was it
00:39:56
was awesome uh hanging out with him uh yeah there's a few like David trimmer was on one of
00:40:03
the episodes um but I think it was probably for for meeting celebrities the the Graeme Norton Show definitely beats
00:40:10
everything else hands down you whatever say what you like about The Graham Norton Show it is an excellent way for
00:40:15
midlevel comedians to meet Hollywood movie stars yeah I say how many times have you been on grah Norton I think I
00:40:21
was on that five or six times yeah they don't they don't have comedians on it as
00:40:24
often as they used to I think they what they when it was first finding its feet that show they they would have a couple
00:40:30
of like Hollywood stars or maybe one on and then they would have a comedian on in case the Hollywood star didn't
00:40:35
deliver I think that was the sort of safety n was that to also have a comedian on and now I think Hollywood
00:40:42
stars have become so media trained that they're always going to give you good
00:40:48
value these days so they don't really need the com to backup anymore so so so
00:40:54
I've kind of been benched you go the the clip I watched in anticipation of you
00:40:59
coming today was one um from 2009 um with Robert Downey Jr one of the biggest stars in the world um [ __ ] that looked
00:41:06
like hard work he he seemed prickly I thought he was prickly thank you cuz it's funny cuz somebody else talk
00:41:12
literally just the other night she was going oh he seemed to really like you no you misread that no no no no I mean we
00:41:20
were chatting beforeand he seemed all right he seemed nice enough and I think he he probably is but he's I mean he's
00:41:26
someone who's been a famous he's been famous since he was a teenager right in
00:41:30
fact I I think he was first his first movie role he was a child um so so he's these these people are almost not
00:41:39
human I don't mean to dehumanize people but these people are are odd people and
00:41:46
I remember he uh I remember just making a joke with him we were talking about brilliant film he was in called Kiss
00:41:52
Kiss Bang Bang and there's a scene in it where he kisses V him and valim have a
00:41:55
kiss and uh and I know I knew his wife produced the film because she produces nearly all his films and I said was that
00:42:03
actually in the script that you kiss Val Kilmer or or did your wife did your wife
00:42:07
put it in the film because she just wanted to see you kiss Vil I thought it was a funny thing to say he did not
00:42:12
think it was a funny thing to say and he visibly bristled and he's like my wife
00:42:17
is not a freak right I I don't think it would make you a freak to want to see your husband kiss
00:42:25
Val Kilmer I think that would be aect L reasonable thing I think my wife would maybe not now he's a bit aged but I
00:42:32
think back in the day I think my wife would have gotten off on me and valma having a SN in front of her well you
00:42:38
seem to um when I'm over on that that appearance though there's a a joke you
00:42:42
make about uh your friend looking up stupid in the dictionary and see yeah I'm not the one who have to
00:42:47
look up stupid in the dictionary yeah yeah and um he seemed to really like that you seem to win him over at that
00:42:53
point but um yeah he seemed like hard work yeah or or just not willing to you a courtesy laugh when he C but when but
00:42:59
then there was other times on that show like I was on with Martin Sheen and we did a we recreated a walking talk style
00:43:05
thing from The West Wing and it was just me Martin Gene and Graham Norton just at
00:43:09
a circuit of the studio just having a conversation just just like the westwing and that was pretty awesome and then at
00:43:15
the end of the show uh doing a thing they actually had a car basically I got to pretend to be Martin Shen's bodyguard
00:43:22
as Jed Bartlett and try and take a bullet from a paintball and things like that those kind of moments are that's
00:43:29
crazy yeah they're they they they moments you're just going to go did I did I do that yeah you did and there's
00:43:35
footage to prove it yeah that's amazing well he must really like you Graham Norton to be on the show that many times
00:43:41
is that an Irish thing or no it's his Booker his Booker actually I think it was an Italian woman but she was fond
00:43:47
yeah do you with those things you get nervous beforehand backstage or yeah and nerves are good you if you get if you
00:43:56
don't you need to have some if you don't have any you can be too complacent but
00:44:01
but too many is is it can then also be creatively stifling so it's it's you
00:44:06
need just the the right level of butterflies I think to to deliver yeah just that nervous Edge oh um yeah other
00:44:13
TV appearances the chase you're on the chase that's so funny being in New
00:44:17
Zealand you guys are obsessed with the chase my God back home when I do interviews nobody mentions the chase
00:44:23
nobody gives a monkeys but it's like nearly every interview I do here it's
00:44:29
you mention the I'm going to put that on my bingo card now I have a bingo card at home of of
00:44:35
phrases people use terms people use so this show that I'm touring at the moment
00:44:40
because it's about death it's about my little brother dying cathartic that's
00:44:44
the quest that's the word people keep bringing up so is it cathartic talking
00:44:49
about this and I just in my head I just take off the mental bingo card but since
00:44:52
I've got New Zealand the chase is the new Square on the bingo card oh my God
00:44:57
you guys love that show and I love that show I genuinely love that show the the the dark destroyer um sea Wallace one of
00:45:05
the one of the Chasers he it seems like he comes over here like once a month to host some quiz nights and things okay
00:45:11
he's a massive star here well I cuz I'm I'm very good M with Paul sinner because
00:45:15
obviously he's a stand the cin he's a he's a a standup you know as well so I
00:45:20
know him and I and I've come to know Jenny Ryan who she the Vixen she does a
00:45:27
podcast with a very good friend of mine called Lucy Porter who's a standup comic
00:45:30
who's and also a king quizzer H so they do a podcast together called fingers on
00:45:34
buzzers and and and Jenny's actually going out with another guy now called Tom Tuk who's a comic so I know her as
00:45:40
well so I've gotten and then when I was in Australia I got to meet some of the
00:45:43
Australian uh Chasers uh The Smiling assassin uh Maria Legends Mar yeah she came to the show we don't we don't care
00:45:53
about the Australian on no no if the Australian one's on it's like nah n n we
00:45:57
need Bradley we need we need the barones we need the dark destroyer why isn't
00:46:02
there a kiwi version shouldn't there be I don't think there's one smart enough
00:46:06
oh no let me host the Kiwi version of the chase that would be good that would be awesome but you you did really well
00:46:13
so it's money for charity but you you got I ra it for Scottish Mountain Rescue
00:46:17
yeah yeah and uh I actually did it twice the first time I did it we we did not win the first time I did it I I I went
00:46:24
for the high offer and it was something like 160 Grand it was the most most anyone had won to bring back to the
00:46:30
table at at the time it was a record uh but then it was just me and the darts player Eric Bristo and we did not beat
00:46:36
the Chaser Eric Bristo Lord have mercy on him now now sadly dead not a quizzer excellent arts player not a he buzzed in
00:46:47
on a he buzzed in on a bloody golf question and then stood there blinking and I'm and I'm lit you can see it if
00:46:54
you watch it back I'm there next to him I'm going just say pass just pass because I'm insanely competitive
00:47:03
and it it's and it's still haunts me one of the question was who which one of the
00:47:08
Beatles wrote Here Comes the Sun and of course it was George Harrison and I said
00:47:12
Paul McCartney and I still wake up in a cold sweat and smack myself in the face what of course that wasn't Paul
00:47:18
McCartney you tulle um but the second time I did it there was yeah there was four of us and we all got through and
00:47:26
and it was it was a group effort yeah we we Tred home with the money so I was yeah that felt like slaying a dragon I
00:47:32
was delighted with that how good how good to to go on that show and not embarrass yourself I think that's uh
00:47:37
that's a really cool thing it's easy to look go on that show and look like an
00:47:40
idiot it is and and and naen Daris did that when I was there the first time the woman who went on to be culture
00:47:47
secretary uh a conservative politician she she went to go for the mid she went to go for the low offer and the audience
00:47:55
booed her so she went for the middle of her cuz that's what a Weather Vein She
00:47:59
was That's How afraid that's how swayed by criticism she was and then she got
00:48:04
then she got caught and couldn't even yeah so uh and then went on to prove herself an incredibly poor
00:48:14
politician as poor a politician as she was a quiz show contestant sh these are good memories hey what a career yeah
00:48:21
what a career um and now you're doing this this the show which you're in New
00:48:24
Zealand for um tragedy plus time which um must be how old are you what are you now 5 51 52 52 yeah it must be immensely
00:48:33
satisfying at this um age age in life and stage in your career to do something so different yeah do you know what it
00:48:40
really is it's and it's completely different to any show I've done before
00:48:44
and I I'm going to admit I do read reviews and I do sometimes I'll read a
00:48:51
bad one and I'll go that's fair enough and sometimes I'll read a bad one I'll
00:48:55
go no that's actually being mean uh or and some go well that's you it wasn't for you like sometimes you got a
00:49:02
bad like I I you know the last couple of shows I've done have focused a lot onstead of being a dad and that and you
00:49:10
know I I get it if you're a 20 two-year-old girl who doesn't have kids you're not really going to want to hear
00:49:17
what some middle-aged guy has to say about being a dad and I get that but if you're a reviewer you I you kind of need
00:49:24
to park that and go it's not for me but the audience seemed to enjoy it yeah
00:49:29
100% yeah but I I got a few where it was like you know two star reviews because the person reviewing was like you know
00:49:35
it because it didn't J with them Omar syndrome yeah exactly thank you that's
00:49:40
what we'll call it yeah so whereas this show you know has been incredibly well
00:49:47
received critically and the feedback from the audience has been nothing like I've ever had in my life um you that
00:49:56
it's I feel like an arst saying using so but it seem it touches people this show you
00:50:03
know and sometimes you get people coming along I was just in Melbourne a few months ago there was two women in the
00:50:09
front row both of them had lost their brothers in the last year didn't know what the show was going
00:50:15
to be about came along to cheer themselves up and then it turns out to be a show about me losing my brother and
00:50:22
they just thought it was the best thing they' ever seen they all they wanted to
00:50:25
hug afterward we had a group hug afterwards you know that sort of you know I had a guy came along saw the show
00:50:31
at The edenor Fringe again didn't know what it was going to be about he lost
00:50:35
his brother to co very early on in the pandemic and he said to me he was there with his wife and he said I actually
00:50:42
feel that my wife now understands me better than she did before like watching that show has made my wife understand me
00:50:50
better and his wife just nods at me and it's like I've never had any ambition to
00:50:56
be any anything other than just funny just do a show that'll just make you laugh so to have ended up writing a show
00:51:02
that has had this sort of bonus impact for people has been incredibly gratifying yeah well it I mean it's so
00:51:11
powerful I suppose like you have this um this Talent OR ability to um articulate
00:51:17
things the way that most people don't so it's uh I suppose anyone that's had a
00:51:20
similar sort of experience they're like yes that's exactly how I feel I just
00:51:23
haven't been able to you know H the nail on the head well it's CU I guess I mean
00:51:27
all the things I've ever done it's been like that like even when you do like a
00:51:32
joke about an argument with your wife or an argument with your girlfriend or something like that it's kind of a group
00:51:38
therapy thing and that everybody in the audience both both the men and their wives and girl everyone's like oh yeah
00:51:44
well we do this you know what I mean it's kind of a it is a sort of sometimes
00:51:49
the laugh comes from the fact that we we were all getting we we feel we're in agreement you know what I mean
00:51:56
was like you you you you're picking on a on on a minute observation about how
00:52:01
people behave in relationships as as a for instance and it's very uh therapeutic for everyone because people
00:52:07
I thought that was just me I thought I I thought I was the only one who felt this
00:52:11
way and so that is sort of mildly therapeutic for everybody and that's kind of why you're all laughing because
00:52:17
yeah we do do that is kind of what that comes from but then when you take a more
00:52:22
serious subject like how we deal with death or or how we argue with our siblings like you will never have an
00:52:28
argument with anyone like you'll have an argument with somebody you grew up with
00:52:34
you know and I do talk about that about arguments me and my my little brother had and and and people just relate to
00:52:41
that sort of thing on on on quite a deep level and uh so yeah it has been it's it
00:52:46
has been therapeutic and even if even people come I mean most people are coming to the show have not experienced
00:52:51
this level of loss people you know have lost parents and grandparents stuff like
00:52:54
that most people don't my age don't lose a sibling you know you're not it's it's
00:52:59
not usually part of the plan yeah uh and you don't need to have but people still
00:53:04
relate to the whole thing of the competitiveness and sibling rivalry and and the and the volatile you know
00:53:11
relationships we did we all tend to have with with the people who we are essentially closest to yeah so so what's
00:53:18
the back story so your your younger brother Paul he died um age 44 on the 12th of February 2022 it was actually
00:53:24
yeah it was 11 but it was it was it I guess the news was only announced on the 12th yeah right so was liver
00:53:29
complications mixed with a bit of Co yeah yeah yeah he he had liver failure he had been clean and sober for 15 years
00:53:37
uh and then he got dumped basically during the second lockdown we were during our second lock down he got
00:53:43
dumped um and he just yeah he just like a lot of people did turn back to the bottle in that second lockdown he just
00:53:51
went back to just I think he just thoughted he' get away with us I think that was the thing
00:53:57
I I think what what happened with him so he he he was a drinker and then he drank
00:54:03
himself in the hospital once and he wasn't like an inveterate like or what we would say a
00:54:09
depressive alcoholic I guess he was just a party guy he just drank a lot and he drank himself in the hospital they said
00:54:16
to him you can't drink anymore and he stopped and then five years after that
00:54:18
he got hudkins lyoma and they said to him it's lucky you gave up the drink cuz we can see the
00:54:26
liver has regenerated enough so we can hit you with the heavyduty chemo and I think that that had a part that a the
00:54:35
chemo for the cancer wouldn't put another hurting on the liver but the liver is a very powerful regenerative
00:54:41
organ it does recover and I think part of him when he went back to the bottle just for that stint after he broke up
00:54:48
with that girl that he just thought I'll be fine I can do it for this long and
00:54:54
then the liver will recover but it didn't and I think that was just it he was one of those people who just always
00:55:00
thought he was going to be okay yeah but just like an optimist yeah yeah I think
00:55:05
he just thought everything Luck of the Irish Lu the Irish um you guys um yeah you guys didn't talk for uh 12 of his
00:55:13
last 16 months of his yeah was what what was it was just a stupid argument I was
00:55:18
just like nothing it was yeah but that's just it it's but that's always the way
00:55:22
isn't it we're siblings we just I mean and I tell I go into this in in in great
00:55:26
detail in the show of how what how the argument happened I was helping to move house and we just ended up having a
00:55:31
stupid argument over the satav it was just a DA argument that escalated and like always happens with siblings it
00:55:38
doesn't it stops being about the thing you're arguing about and becomes about
00:55:41
every problem you've ever had with the person and we just went each other in a
00:55:44
way that just only siblings can exactly and to me it was like I was doing I can't believe I was doing him a favor
00:55:52
and we still ended up having an argument yeah and he was probably like I can't
00:55:56
believe I'm in this much trouble that I have to and he still we still had an
00:56:02
argument you know what I mean that would have been where it's hard to see it from
00:56:05
the other person's perspective yeah and that is one of my most it's one of my
00:56:09
favorite bits of the whole show it's the one I find most satisfying to do and I
00:56:12
think it's the one bit of the show that where he's still alive he would get the
00:56:16
biggest kick out of it's because at the time I completely thought he was 100%
00:56:21
wrong and I was 100% right and the more I replay the situation in my head the more I realize my role in it and in
00:56:28
trying to make it funny I I very much play up my role in that argument and and I and I'm very self-deprecating about
00:56:36
what happened that day and it's it's something that audiences very much relate to and I find that one of the
00:56:44
most satisfying things to do in the show uh but yeah we didn't we didn't speak
00:56:49
for that but we did reconcile and and then and the reconciliation that we had is something I also share with the
00:56:55
audience and that's one of the highlights of the show as well yeah did the the reconciliation happen um just
00:57:01
because he was unwell it wasn't that he because it was more because he would had
00:57:05
he'd broken up with a girlfriend and stuff like that and I knew yes he'd
00:57:08
gotten sick but it wasn't it wasn't the case of I I didn't think then he was
00:57:10
going to die I I thought he was going to be all right uh he hadn't gotten really
00:57:14
sick at this point he'd gotten sick but I I yeah it wasn't like we better
00:57:20
reconcile before we lose him it was just we better reconcile cuz we're brothers
00:57:24
and this is stupid now yeah it's funny though when you're siblings um and you
00:57:27
think you've got another 30 40 whatever years left not speaking for a year is no
00:57:32
big deal you know you'll patch things up eventually yeah exactly I think it's
00:57:36
probably what it's like oaklander going up the sky tower it's like it'll always
00:57:40
be there I'll do I'll do it eventually and then one day it falls over and you go I never went up it um
00:57:48
yeah can you remember your your last conversation was it anything poignant or yeah no I do I abs and again and I talk
00:57:53
about it in the show we our last face to face conversation was in the hospital canteen and it was just it was it was
00:57:59
actually very sweet it was just laughing and joking about movies and music and uh
00:58:05
and uh but we we talked we talked about my ADHD which I hadn't been diagnosed
00:58:11
with yet but it was yet to be we talked about that and and yeah and again that's
00:58:17
that's all part of the show but I yes I still remember the last time I saw him
00:58:20
in the flesh it was him just I offered to give him a lift home he was checking out of the hospital
00:58:26
to go back to his flash uh CU he was he was he was fine and and I was I I I wanted to give him a
00:58:34
lift home and he said no it's fine I'll just get an Uber and and and I I don't
00:58:39
know I wish I I wish he'd at least let let me give him a lift home that day yeah but then the SAT n and yeah who
00:58:46
knows what would end up happening so um [ __ ] it's um yeah where are the where
00:58:52
are the jokes in the show are they just sort of like pe oh mate it's honestly
00:58:56
it's I'm not just saying it it's a really funny show yeah the review speak
00:59:00
for itself yeah it's and I've been very keen and as I say he was a comedy writer
00:59:05
and a comedy director he worked with comedians his thing was helping comedians take the bad things in their
00:59:11
life and turn them into comedy that's it's funny that that's then he never
00:59:15
directed me but he's now the bad thing in my life that I've turned into comedy
00:59:20
and his thing I and I spoke to a number of his clients uh Sarah keyworth would be one in particular who said you know
00:59:29
his thing was you can be as serious and as heartfelt as you want but there has to be a joke it has to be in service of
00:59:37
a joke you can't just say something to show how sad you are or how damaged You
00:59:42
Are by this event and then just let it hang you've it's there's got to be a
00:59:46
joke and I've made sure that that's how the show is it's it's it's very joke
00:59:52
heavy and some of the jokes are maybe a bit hard to to take some of the jokes but you know they do make people go ooh
00:59:58
and they make people recoil but I quite kind of enjoy it cuz here's the thing there's a lot of stuff in comedy
01:00:06
now about what you can and can't say and all that and there's a lot of thing
01:00:08
about trying to push audiences and and and doing jokes that are in inverted com as offensive or dark or whatever but
01:00:16
what I do quite like about the show is that it's very much about me and what
01:00:19
happened to me well obviously what happened to my brother but my brother dying is what happened to me he's dead
01:00:24
he doesn't give a [ __ ] anymore right he's his death he's the one person we
01:00:28
absolutely know his death does not bother right he's gone it bothers me and if I want to make a lightharted or a
01:00:34
dark joke about what happened I then I will if you're offended by that that is
01:00:39
absolutely your fault it's not like I'm making a joke about somebody else's
01:00:43
disability or somebody else's learning difficulty or somebody else's weight
01:00:48
problem or somebody's reg or ethnicity I'm not doing any of I'm not touching
01:00:52
any of those subjects I'm talking about something that happened to me and if you don't like how I am dealing
01:01:00
with my [ __ ] that's on you you know I I I think it's absolutely fair enough for
01:01:07
people to get offended and for people to feel that comedians have have have crossed a line in their material when it
01:01:14
comes to being about General stuff be it political be it personal whatever it is
01:01:19
I I am not someone who thinks comedians should be allowed to say whatever we want with impunity I think com medians
01:01:26
have a responsibility to you know to not Foster certain opinions or not not Foster certain attitudes shall we say uh
01:01:35
but but when it comes to what I'm doing about this you you you as far as I in my
01:01:41
head I'm you can't touch I'm untouchable you can't have a go at me if you have a
01:01:46
problem because oh well actually I lost my brother and I found it offensive that
01:01:50
he did the job I don't give a [ __ ] I lost my brother and this is how I'm
01:01:53
dealing with this and if you don't like the jokes I'm doing about that is
01:01:56
absolutely fine with me as as opposed to you know other times I may have done jokes where people have G well I didn't
01:02:01
like that because you know of of something happen that I can understand that that I can you know I can get over
01:02:09
but with with this it's I I I feel almost bulletproof in that you canot like us but I'm sorry you
01:02:18
don't get criticized you're not going to be this is how I'm dealing with it
01:02:21
you're not going to be cancelled on this hell yeah um also I think I don't know I'm probably speaking on
01:02:27
just on my own behalf here but uh like when when you die you don't want to be
01:02:32
forgotten do you and you keeping his memory alive oh yeah and 100% And when I first started doing the show it was very
01:02:39
difficult I was crying every time were you yeah yeah and and different aspects of the show would grab me on different
01:02:47
nights and uh and I did think early on I may have made a mistake here cuz I got to
01:02:55
I've got a tour booked in I've got to do this repeatedly uh but then very quickly I
01:03:00
found it very therapeutic and I found it really nice and people were coming to the show who didn't know who Paul was
01:03:04
and are going away knowing who he was and it's absolutely that it's it is
01:03:08
keeping his memory alive and then for people who did know him it's even more
01:03:12
gratifying like I one of the nicest comments I had was I think only on the second night of the show well you know
01:03:18
you bear in mind even though I've been doing comedy a long time I've never done
01:03:21
a show like this and when I first started doing it I really didn't know if I was doing it right I didn't hire a
01:03:26
director I I was just doing it myself and I didn't know how well it was going
01:03:32
to go or whether it was going to work and so the fact that it did was great and so any kind of feedback I had that
01:03:38
was positive was very important to me and people I had a couple come up to me after the show who had worked with Paul
01:03:44
and they said we loved it it was like getting to spend another hour in his company yeah that which is like is yeah
01:03:53
yeah je yeah yeah good yeah I found a photo of him online um eating what looks like yeah that photo
01:04:00
was in the show funny enough yeah so who who is Paul that's do you know what's
01:04:04
funny about that show because Larry Dean who's one of Paul's clients a Scottish
01:04:10
comic and he came to the show ear and he he took this Photograph I didn't even
01:04:14
know Larry had taken this Photograph so Larry was really when that photograph comes up in the
01:04:19
show quite a moment yeah yeah so yes so who wants the like a 5year age G yeah yeah so you
01:04:26
weren't when you were young young yeah we weren't close until we were old it's
01:04:31
funny like when I was 18 he was 13 yeah it's a big age you're almost like an
01:04:35
uncle yeah you show me an 18-year-old that wants to hang out with a 13-year-old I'll show you an 18-year-old
01:04:40
that needs to be on a list you know so he was more someone who you know annoying little brother yeah exactly uh
01:04:49
and then I left home to go to college when I was 18 and it wasn't really until
01:04:53
you know I was in my late 20s and he and his mid that we we really started to get
01:04:58
on um and then then he he actually moved to London I I I I it was it was my idea
01:05:07
I think I was home for Christmas and I just in in would have been 200 three yeah it would have been Christmas
01:05:15
2003 I was home and I just said you should move to London and you should move in with me and he did and uh and
01:05:24
then not long after that my now wife then girlfriend like I wanted to move her in and so I had to move him out but
01:05:30
I I sort of came to him and said look I really feel like I brought you over to London and then I I'm kicking out so I I
01:05:36
paid his rent because I seemed it seemed fair you know I didn't want to live with
01:05:40
my brother and my girlfriend but so uh I brought him to London and he first the first comedian he worked with was was a
01:05:48
good friend of mine Australian comic called Brendan Burns and another again friend of mine called Andrew Maxwell so
01:05:53
he yes I was his introduction to the industry and his introduction to the first his first two clients but after
01:06:00
that he completely he he you know forged his own path and was working with people
01:06:05
I didn't even know you know well barely knew like as say sward V rooshan ConEd
01:06:10
all these people so he absolutely yeah there was no no help from me yeah do you do you do you feel
01:06:16
exhausted after doing the show now or does it depend on the audience bit more out of me than previous shows yeah
01:06:21
certainly and there been the odd occasion where you know show might sell out and my manager will go oh do you
01:06:28
want to do two shows that night I'm like [ __ ] I can't do it twice yeah apparently that's age in my in my
01:06:37
20s it was easy you know I could do a show I could get drunk and do a show that's another thing I can't do I can't
01:06:42
do a show drunk anymore I used to be in the 20s I was made of rubber and steel you know and I could get I could meet
01:06:51
people in the afternoon get hammered with them do an hour of Comedy no bother did it sell out do another hour on top
01:06:57
of that and then go and do some late night you know 10 minute slots as well on top of that for just for fun not
01:07:04
anymore aging hey it's in my 20s I could spend the whole weekend just getting
01:07:08
pissed and eating McDonald's now it's like if f a day without the Magnesium
01:07:13
I'm it's terrible um yeah I've heard you say the bit of the audience the more
01:07:19
emotional I get that's a weird thing yeah what what um what do you mean the better the
01:07:24
audience in that even from the early stages of the show like because the show starts off I talk about a minor tragedy
01:07:31
to to as a as a sort of CounterPoint and and how I was making jokes about that minor Char was M car getting broken into
01:07:38
and how the very next night I was on stage making jokes about it so I I started off just doing you know just
01:07:43
light-hearted observational humor as it were and if people aren't laughing then
01:07:49
big you know the more people are laughing then the more then when we get into the more serious stuff the more
01:07:54
serious stuff the more serious I can let the serious stuff be you know the ideal
01:07:59
audience laughs a lot of the funny stuff and then you know really gets involved with the serious stuff but if people
01:08:04
aren't really laughing the show Works in general but if people aren't really laughing at the
01:08:10
stuff that's just funny then you're kind of like okay right well it's going to be
01:08:15
a long because in a couple of minutes we're going to I'm going to tell you
01:08:17
something that's not actually not going to make you laugh and then it's going to
01:08:20
be [ __ ] if you don't laugh at that bit that's going to be a full two minutes
01:08:24
between laughs that's not you know what I mean like there's there's certain
01:08:28
laughs that are there to punctuate I don't like to go too long without a laugh doesn't matter how serious the
01:08:32
story is there's got to be a laugh but if then people don't laugh at this joke
01:08:35
here or this that joke there then I find myself cutting the serious stuff down I
01:08:43
find myself making the poignant stuff less poignant because I'm I'm I'm just
01:08:48
more aware in my head of how long we've gone without a belly laugh oh I guess something you think
01:08:56
about right yeah yeah I'm a big fan of David Chapelle he he sometimes he he tell a story that's very a long time
01:09:02
between laughs yeah yeah yeah and I yes I don't have that confidence right it's
01:09:08
as simple as that I don't have that confidence to go that long and I am not Dave Chappelle it's as simple as that
01:09:13
Dave Chappelle en enjoys a hero worship from his audience that I cannot count on
01:09:21
I don't Dave Chappelle yeah he can go five minutes and just talking from the
01:09:26
heart and then have a punch line eventually I I I don't I don't feel I can do that yeah so I and I'm just more
01:09:33
aware that if if I do a joke and it only gets a bit of a titter where it where I'm normally expecting a decent laugh
01:09:40
then I I get inside my head and go okay I'm going to have to I'm going to have
01:09:44
to shorten this next story now to get to the next laugh oh you're editing on the
01:09:49
go yeah yeah that's experience mhm and the show and and we depending on how the
01:09:54
audience can be the show be anywhere between an hour to an hour and a half long right for that very reason oh
01:10:00
that's so cool what what um you what about what lessons with um grief like what have you learned through this whole
01:10:06
experience that could help others well I suppose the one thing they would immediately spring to mind is um
01:10:13
you know if if you're if you're not speaking with someone [ __ ] fix it because you don't know well I do and
01:10:18
that is the that is the overall message of the show but the thing is you can't I I I do try and say this only if
01:10:25
it's not completely unforgivable only it's only if it's in as it was in the
01:10:29
case of me and my brother just to do with that stupid argument on a pattern of behavior and and stubborn pride and
01:10:35
all that sort of thing that's the sort of [ __ ] you can't let get in the way of
01:10:38
your friendship if somebody's done something unforgivable or somebody is constantly horrible to you it is okay to
01:10:46
[ __ ] them off you know what I mean and I don't feel that you so I you you can't
01:10:51
go through life treating everybody as if they die tomorrow and what the regret you'll have you you can't be a doormat
01:11:00
in that way where you let people treat I'm saying it's only in the in the case
01:11:04
of you know do you really in your heart love this person then yeah then you've
01:11:09
got to let that [ __ ] go yeah I suppose if that if if they happen to die and you're going to feel guilty about it
01:11:14
then um yeah patch it for your own sake as much as anything else and and and yeah and try and I've said this to other
01:11:21
people like reach out like I've had a bunch of friends I have come who I have spoken to
01:11:27
about this sort of stuff since they've been to see the show if you reach out
01:11:31
and they knock it back you'll at least when they do eventually die which they
01:11:36
will we all will eventually die you you won't feel as bad because that is the
01:11:41
thing about Paul is that I am I did there's a podcast called griefcast which
01:11:46
is done by a comedian called carad Lloyd and I did that show about 3 months after
01:11:51
Paul died which was probably a little soon and one thing I said to her that was quite interesting as I was saying it
01:11:58
uh is that my older brother Stephen I've always been closer to there's a
01:12:01
three-year age Gap and you know he has a he has a daughter the same age as my son
01:12:06
and we just do more stuff together and our relationship is uncomplicated and we he to die I'm closer to him but where he
01:12:15
to die I would just be sad and I feel like that would be easier to deal with than all the stuff that's unsaid and the
01:12:24
regret about arguments that I have with Paul you know like guilt is it guilt you
01:12:29
carry not even so much guilt but just sort of just missing the relationship that we never even had you know wishing
01:12:36
we'd had a better friendship and a better relationship missing the Friendship we did have but kind of
01:12:41
wishing we could have improved so there's a lot of regret that goes along with it whereas when Stephen if Steven
01:12:46
were to die tomorrow it would just be I would just miss him but there wouldn't
01:12:51
be any complication with it so it's what's weird is that the more complicated relationship you have with
01:12:58
somebody the the worse you'll feel when they die it's a it's a really weird
01:13:03
thing if you just love somebody and and and just and just miss them I genuinely think that's easier to deal with just
01:13:12
cuz it's less complicated yeah yeah have you have you always been good at um like
01:13:18
talking about difficult stuff like this and expressing your your feelings in a deep and vulnerable way just be on the
01:13:24
surface level of a laugh I not with not not not in comedy I don't think I in
01:13:29
comedy I've always just gone for the easier laugh or the I'm not saying low
01:13:33
hanging fruit but I I it's never been as say a an ambition or an aspiration to to
01:13:40
tackle yeah these kinds of difficult subjects sometimes I I'll have an idea I'll have a notion of something I want
01:13:46
to talk about I'll have a an opinion could be political that I want to express and trying to find a way to make
01:13:51
that funny is is is is tricky but uh no I've never really through comedy dealt
01:14:01
with something as weighty as this before well what about in what about in your your actual life are you you quite what
01:14:06
what Irish what are Irish men like are you quite good I I there's a general a generalization about Irish
01:14:15
people that really applies but I no I I I I think I'm I'm pretty good at at at
01:14:21
talking about stuff and I yeah and I maybe it's I'm I'm not as good a
01:14:27
listener as I like think oh no it's it's um it's a conversation I have with a lot of the
01:14:32
guests on the podcast CU I think like New Zealand guys we are notoriously bad like we're so good at bottling things up
01:14:38
or not not even troubling our loved ones with um you know serious stuff that's
01:14:42
going on with their lives no I I think I am I think I'm pretty I think I'm too
01:14:47
open sometimes yeah I think your wife's like God I wish he wasn't so vulnerable
01:14:53
all the time no like I remember before I met my wife I was going out with a girl
01:14:59
and it was not a great relationship it was terrible but I remember doing and then a play with this guy who I knew
01:15:06
didn't even know that well I I I knew him but we we were doing a play together
01:15:10
and we hadn't seen each other a long time and he says so what are you up to uh what's your girlfriend like and I
01:15:16
described my situation and his I I feel like I just unloaded on this guy who I hadn't seen in a long time and his
01:15:23
taking after everything I said was why are you still going out with her then that was oh [ __ ] yeah maybe you're
01:15:30
right there and I didn't realize just how much I'd come out with until I came
01:15:34
out with it about what the relationship I was in how unhappy it was when I was just it was one of those things like you
01:15:42
know do you ever ask somebody how are you and then they actually tell you the New Zealand the new like yeah n
01:15:50
all good yeah yeah I think I am guilty of of of if somebody who did not want to know how I actually am and yeah I would
01:15:59
then tell them how I actually am well that's I think that's a really good
01:16:02
thing a real powerful thing to be uh to be guilty of um and your mental health that's most been
01:16:08
good yeah by and large I think so I think raking over the Cs of the darkest moment in my life five nights a week all
01:16:17
year has probably not been very helpful I I think this is the longest I've gone
01:16:21
without doing the show since I first wrote it I haven't done it in over a week now cuz yeah had I took a holiday
01:16:28
and and it's actually been nice to park it for a bit Yeah so do you think you
01:16:34
you'll do the cycle of the show and then it's that's it it's done buried Away In
01:16:38
A Box yeah yeah once I record it and then yeah once I finish I I think I've got I've got gigs up till
01:16:45
April of next year and then there may be some European dates after that but certainly by the summer of next year
01:16:50
I'll I'll be I think I'll be I'll be done with this show yeah oh what a
01:16:55
tribute to your brother um no no no backlash or reservations from anyone in the family no no the family have been
01:17:01
good and the family have been very understanding and the family you know get it you know this is this this is how
01:17:07
we deal with it this is how we deal with you the burns this is what do this is absolutely the the way it's done oh and
01:17:13
does does James Cordon get a mention in this show he does in this one yeah well what's what's you have have you got beef
01:17:19
with James cor I don't have beef I actually don't well one of the themes of
01:17:23
the show is is you might be right but you might be wrong that's a theme that
01:17:28
runs through the show and I talk about conspiracy theorists and I talk about uh you know arguing with siblings and Stu
01:17:34
like that is that you know and no one ever wants to admit they're wrong but you might be right but you might be
01:17:38
wrong and one example of that is you know I met James Cordon once I thought he was a nice guy I'm clearly wrong you
01:17:46
know well is he not a nice guy apparently not like I did that joke in high Wickam and and everyone laughed it
01:17:52
turns out that's where he's from so that says everything you know no I don't
01:17:56
actually and I again I talk about this on stage I don't actually have a problem
01:17:59
with James Gordon but it's what he represents and he's one of those people
01:18:03
who uh I try not to look at what other people are doing but I sometimes can't
01:18:07
help it and the fact is James Cordon enjoys a level of privilege I would quite like that goes along with a level
01:18:12
of Fame I am not prepared to work for that is my problem with James Gordon uh and and I do and I go into
01:18:18
greater detail on that yeah uh and it's to hilarious degree in the show yeah was
01:18:25
yes's he must be at the same age as you as he s who else were you contemporaries
01:18:29
were you well he was never a contemporary he was one of those people who would have you know because he was
01:18:33
never a standup yeah so he no when I was starting out I mean I'm trying to think
01:18:39
the people who I was starting out with who went on to be big Julian Barrett of the mighty Bo he would have been
01:18:45
somebody who would have been uh on my sort of open mic uh scene um I think yeah I think of all the people who that
01:18:54
would be an an example of and uh and the other guy who I used to see a lot when I
01:18:59
was starting out was a guy called Tony roach who doesn't perform anymore but
01:19:02
he's now he he's one of the writers on succession and the thick of it and vep
01:19:07
and all that kind of stuff so he's very successful now um uh but yeah that would
01:19:13
be the my sort of Open Mic contemporaries they would have been the the the two that really went on and then
01:19:21
and then sort of just before after me like Ross Noble we shared flat together he's uh oh yeah he was a big he was a
01:19:27
big deal here in New Zealand yeah yeah he's a big he's a massive deal in
01:19:30
Australia he lives in Australia yeah and he does he does he does he does well in
01:19:34
the UK yeah he used to come here all the all the time right about the same time there another Irish guy called Danny boy
01:19:38
who was massive here a a Scottish guy Danny boy yeah yeah yeah Danny boy who I went to college with his brother Billy
01:19:45
this is absolutely absolutely true we weren't in the same class we were in the same year
01:19:50
together I I used to know his brother quite well from University yeah uh but yeah he's still doing all right is he
01:19:56
yeah I always felt like he was he was too handsome to be a really good comedian he too goodl looking a level of
01:20:03
not not not a criticism you're leveling at me I see a level of uniqueness I don't know hey um hey this has been
01:20:09
bloody great that's been a lot of fun uh I know you're jet lagged and you're
01:20:13
you're pissed off cuz you lost your headphones on the headphones on Emirates
01:20:18
yeah I'll name names yeah you made me fill out the online for you wouldn't let
01:20:22
me back on the plane to just get them myself you made me fill out a form there at the airport and they just they're not
01:20:27
in your system they're not in your system well tell the cleaner not to steal them then how far how far off the
01:20:34
plane were you when you realized your era and I was five 5 minutes from the plane like I I turned around I but I I
01:20:41
tried to go back I couldn't go back and I I instantly went to the to a desk and
01:20:45
went I've just left me headphones on the plane and they're like yeah nothing we
01:20:49
can do you need to fill out a form which I did and that's you know they has fil
01:20:55
absolutely nowhere no no human being has had any interaction with that data that
01:21:01
has just got into some automatic filing system designed to just keep you at bay that's all that's happened to it I mean
01:21:09
how many peers of stend houses to the cleaner need like realistically must happen every flight it happens to me all
01:21:16
the time you know it's my own fault I I remember losing a a PlayStation Portable
01:21:21
On on an Air Lingus Flight and straight away again still at the airport and get picking up a courtesy phone like those
01:21:28
other the days and going you and I've just realized and I'm going no we haven't found it no well I know exactly
01:21:34
where it was it's in the pocket this is the seat number I've Got My Bodyguard no
01:21:38
it's not there oh really mysterious yeah well if it turns up let me know yes yes we've got the
01:21:46
form hey this has been great ITB thank you so much for being so generous with your time D thanks for having me that's
01:21:52
been really cool by the way um don't feel bad that you finished a whole bottle of R there's a it's not a whole
01:21:57
bottle that's not a whole bottle that's a that if I if this is a whole bottle
01:22:01
I'm a giant it's half a bottle half size bottle yeah well so pleasure to have you
01:22:08
back in New Zealand and um yeah congratulations on the show is this is it the work you're most proud of or is
01:22:13
it hard to say I am very proud of but I I I am aware that sometimes people come and it's not the show that they wanted
01:22:18
to see and I always say I'll be honest with you it's not the show I wanted to
01:22:21
write yeah you know and then and then the next I'll do hopefully it'll be a
01:22:25
bit brighter and breezier yeah and I'll go back to getting three star reviews
01:22:28
again yeah well enjoy it while it lasts are you great you're you are an honorary
01:22:33
New Zealander I think oh that's a very sweet thing to say that's that's one of
01:22:37
the nicest compliments I've had honorary New Zealander four stars do you want to
01:22:42
yeah do you want to sign off the podcast with um your uh honorary New Zealand phrase what is it about something about
01:22:47
the menu it's quite an extensive menu he I heard you say in an interview um Ben Hurley hles you for sing like
01:22:57
John Key yeah that's I there was one night where I just really felt like I'd
01:23:01
got it I'd got the Newan accent and it was like fingernails on the Blackboard
01:23:04
every time I did it stop it you sound like John K it kind of does he's one of our great
01:23:11
Prim ministers um hey thank you so much mate really appreciate it cheers man he be
01:23:24
a