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Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is the center of performance. Whenever there's a top performance in New
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Zealand, it all comes from here. That's Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that
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for days. That's the boys who got the hole in one in to Hey Finn, how's the performance going?
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>> Top tier. >> Nice. This is our generate room. In here, you'll find our top performers
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helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver investments. Get in here, Finn. Maximize. Generate. putting performance
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first. >> Benise Minnie, welcome to my podcast. >> Thanks. >> It's worth um I mean people are going to
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be listening to this whenever they're listening to it, but for you and I, we're recording this at 7 a.m. on a
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Friday morning. >> Yeah. Good time, eh? >> You asked you asked me in the I invited
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you on the podcast and you very kindly said yes and and you said um what was your line? something about uh you peak
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performance in the morning or peak clarity. >> Peak clarity. I'm like buzzing when I
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get into work. That is my most productive time of the day. >> This is cruel. This look I look tired.
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I'm so tired. It's so early. >> Often by this time I've got dinner on as
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well prepped on. >> But it's um it is great to connect with you. Um and I'm so pleased you said yes.
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Uh this was sort of um the middleman was your your husband Dion Nash. >> He's always the middleman. Yeah.
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>> Yeah. Who's been a guest on my podcast and I sent him a message saying, "Oh, do
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you think Bernie would be keen?" And he asked you and here you are. Did you did
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much much thought go into saying yes or >> uh I Well, I don't do them often. It's
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like I I kind of don't um I don't love being out in the media and um so I I
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love I kind of love working hard and putting my head down and um so in our family I I leave the I leave the
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marketing and the color and the media to Dion. >> Why Why don't you think you're Yeah. You
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said before just before we started recording that you don't think you're
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very interesting or something. Why why Yeah. Is this a chapter of your life now where where you you think you've been in
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the public eye and now you just enjoy like being under the radar a bit or what is it?
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>> Oh, I I just my whole focus I guess now is our three children. Like one of them
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are they're not children anymore but young adults and um and pretty much adults but is it's all it's not about me
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anymore, you know. And I think that you go through sport. Sport's a pretty selfish um pursuit and and you learn a
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lot through you learn a lot through sport. and I loved the time that I had um you know at high performance you know
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at the top of your sport but then um you know it's been nice to to try and be the best at something else
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like being a great mom and um and then going back to to corporate world and and um and being able to really dig deep and
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and get good at something else as well. Yeah. >> Well, with all that in mind, it's great
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to have you here today. I really really appreciate it. I mean that. And um I've
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got so many cards here of things to talk about. There's a lot of cards for someone that describes himself as not
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very interesting. >> I'm intrigued to see what you've got on those cards.
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>> Okay. First of all, um so yeah, 7:00 a.m. on a Friday morning we're recording
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this and it's I think the 11th of September. Um just cuz I don't know when
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people are going to be listening to this or watching this, but at the time we're
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recording this, one of the big stories in the New Zealand news cycle is um Dame Nolan from the Silver Ferns, and there's
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been like a like a players mutiny. Uh do do you know her personally? Do you have
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any thoughts on this? Some of the some of the Silver Ferns have been um quite quite vocal about um their displeasure
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with it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um I mean, I played with Nolan. >> Oh, you played together?
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>> Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So back in um well in New Zealand, but before that um
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we played together in Wellington in PIC. So I moved um I was pretty young. I did
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two years at Canterbury Uni and then um I just knew too many people in Christ Church. So I didn't make it very far
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across the campus. Too much socializing going on. So I ended up um packing up and heading to Wellington um because
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Maram Matamanu was uh the coach then and um and I you know she was a legend gold
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defense in her time and I thought it would be great to tap into that and Nolan was the goal for smokefree pic was
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our team then. Um so I joined that team and um and she was a key a key figure in
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that team. um beautiful beautiful player um beautiful authentic person as well which which sort of went for all of the
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players in that team but we knew our positions and and we knew what we were striving for in there.
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>> Yeah. >> So as as I mean you're in a you're you're in a position where like you've
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been um deep inside the silver ferns camp um and now you're in people and culture so you're dealing with um like
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workplace disputes like this. Yeah. What's your take on the whole thing? Yeah, it feels very similar like I think
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um and I think it's probably indicative of um the real >> um the overall changing environment um
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you know not just in sport but in um you know in the world that we're in and uh
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and you know apart from it's there's the whole um just employee rights And um and the
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same with the the rise of or the the evolvement of the um the players association and player um you know that
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player kind of power. Um but also you know I think our sport is um all sports are at a real kind of crossroads
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where you've got professionalism and um but you still have grassroots. you got
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to lean on grassroots to come through and um and there's so many opportunities
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out there for them to to weigh up basically. But but everything is um you know what I'm doing and is is basically
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what I can see happening out there. It's all it is all people and culture and um
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and I talk often to um um you know the beautiful thing about having played in a team sport is that
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you know um you know when you've when you've been when you've created or been
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part of a really amazing winning culture um and you also know when um when you've
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been in one that's been um bad. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. When when were you at your
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happiest in the sort of affairs? >> Uh so when I came like um when I came into
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the team that's always challenging when your new kid on the block um >> and you were a kid. You were literally a
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kid. I was you were still at school. >> I was a baby. So for many years I was a
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baby in in every team I was in. Um cuz I was kind of that I was that um you overgrown quite early on. Um, and so
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then you um, and and I guess because of that I learned to just fit in with um, and and get along with with all
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different personalities and different ages and >> um, but then um, yeah, it was very kind
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of we were losing when I first arrived in the Silver Ferns. We were we were the touted as each time we went out in the
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tour against Australia, we were the worst Silver Ferns team that um you know had taken the court against Australia
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and we were losing by 30 goals each test match which is which is crushing um you
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know the I mean that in itself kills um culture and and it's hard to reverse
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reverse engineer that. Um, so there's so many factors that go on um, you know, to
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getting everyone at their peak potential um, and performing and um, and it's no
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different to, you know, there's so many similarities to to getting people to
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perform in the workplace as well. >> Yeah. I suppose when you're on a team
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that's losing, especially losing big, that's when fingerpointing starts and
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blaming starts. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's when actually you need to stop and it's always what you
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can control and and um you know what you can affect in there. >> Um >> but yeah there's there's there's a lot
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of factors and then the best teams that I've um you know been in we had a great
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um silver ferns team that we went to South Africa and we won that series against Australia in South Africa. Um
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and uh and I guess you know we had a team that that that was the rise of Timapara George and um and Tanya Dalton
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was out there on the court. It was a really great um we had Irene, it was Irene's first time back playing in South
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Africa against South Africa. Um and uh but yeah, we had a really close cohesive unit over there. Um and and same I guess
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I think back to the best the best teams and culture that I was in um that that PIC team with um WA and Nolan. Um but
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and then Robin brought in with the many years that she had >> um down down in Southland for Sting and
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Steel and um you know that was a real kind of I was actually saying to Dion about um there were very few players
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that played in that era. Um, so it was just like consistency. >> Um, and she managed to maintain those
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players and those combinations, but also um, you know, she probably extended Robin extended my, um, my playing career
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because of, you know, I had these bung joints. Um, but she really, um, treated us as individuals, but then as part of a
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team. So she was able to um you know manage us individually and then have us combine as a um as a you know as a
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winning team. Yeah. >> Um you mentioned Irene Van Djk just before one of the one of the greatest
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ever. What um what what's it like did did when you were captain did you sort
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of captain everyone the same way? Like were you just Bernice and this is what you get or did you treat people
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differently? Cuz I've heard her in podcast. It sounds like she's quite a
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quite sensitive and >> differently. Yeah. Yeah. You can't you you can't treat everyone the same. Um
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you know to there's rules that keep everyone you know on an even kill. However um if you want to get the best
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out of everyone uh you got to figure out what motivates them and and how um you can get them to perform at their best.
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Yes, when Irene arrived and um and her and Billy Miner joined the Silver Ferns at the same time from overseas and quite
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two big personalities, like two really colorful um personalities. Um, and Irene was super
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sensitive and if you I know I remember Annie Robbery, you know, firing a few balls at her and and um they just, you
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know, went flying through her hands and and then um and then if someone raised their voice, eyes would burst into tears
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and um you know, this is in training and so you had to really just um uh work out
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how you could get Irene to I mean you actually had to work around her to to get her to grow and be you know stronger
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and and um cuz she would always initially she would fumble balls on the baseline and um and you know she'd had
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very limited kind of exposure to other players and other styles of playing um and then and we also had Donna uh
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Lofhagen in the team and um and Dons is um you know she's probably quite the
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opposite to Irene and so it was trying to get them to gel together and work together and um yeah yeah there's often
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you know I think it's being able to harness those um the individuals and those really strong personalities like
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you definitely need to be able to harness them and bring them together. So there's a role. There's a role for big
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personalities and then there's a role for those people that gel and and stick
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it all together. Yeah. >> It's a lot for a captain. So you got to focus on your own game. Um and then
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you've got to like manage all these different personality types. So I'm I'm
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sure I even remember seeing Iron Van Djk in some games like um like clapping when
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the other team scores. >> She did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I remember playing against her at the um you know
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prior to her um moving here and um and she would be chatting to you and like we're always taught don't talk to your
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opposition but when you're at goal shoot and goalkeep you do have a lot of time
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where you're just kind of standing next to each other and she would be chatting
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and um smiling and then like if I got an intercept off her she'd be clapping like
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you know like clapping the defensive player getting the interceptor was like bit strange but that was kind that was
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her personality like she was >> she was genu genuinely um pleased for you and um yeah and I think that's what
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the the public absolutely loved about her as well. She she connected with them. >> Oh, she's adored here. Yeah. Well,
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there's so much nipple stuff to get back into, but first first of all, we'll um
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wind back and go back to the early years, right? >> So, um Simone and dad and Dutch mom.
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>> Um Irish. >> Irish. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Irish descent. Yeah.
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>> Oh, GPT did me dirty. Okay. So, my dad um Irish mom. Um Mini Mini, that's your
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your dad's name. >> Um and Sally is your mom's name. >> Yeah.
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>> And um the they're they're meat, cute guys. Your dad, they were both on the
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athletics track. Your dad's a dathlon. Your mom's like a discus and javelin.
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And he he liked her thighs. Her big thighs. >> That's his story. Well, that's her
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story. um yeah that um that he well when he came out from Samoa he said he wanted
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to play for the All Blacks and be a Peter Snell like go to the Commonwealth Games for athletics and so and he turned
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up at the athletics track and mom um well she was from the west coast um and he was they he came into Christ Church
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and went to the athletics track and the coach there was Vladimir Bridus Valdi Breedus and um and um the story goes And
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dad's great with the story is that he um he didn't have any running shoes and so
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um and it was mid- winter in Christ Church and and so he sent everyone for a couple of laps and he told many many to
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go he was going to have to do twice as many laps to warm up those feet. But um and then he said yeah then he he spotted
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mom across the shop at circle and he loved her big thighs. >> Strong strong thighs. Oh yeah, women
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love that. They love hearing that. Um and they were both superb athletes. They like Decathlon is like um Yeah. I mean
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>> 10 10 events. Yeah. >> The supreme supremely fit. Like you got to be Yeah.
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>> Well, it takes a lot of training like to become proficient and um excel in 10 events,
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right? You gota be like really really good but not not necessarily brilliant. Had 10 very different things like you
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know pole vault high jump sprinting middle distance running. That's a lot. >> Yeah.
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>> It's crazy good. And and they were both like Commonwealth Games level, right?
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Both went to the uh 74 Commonwealth Games in Christ Church. >> Yeah. Yeah. So that was just I was born
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in 75. Um but um you I've seen footage of there was sort of it feels like it
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was probably that early first footage of the Comwalth Games and um because they're in Christ Church and um and I've
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seen in in all of the TVNZ archives like the um you know there's they followed
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the Decathlon and so um there's all this footage of dad's family from Samoa
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supporting him and and um and yeah mom and dad um competing. Yeah. So, were they like a sporting power
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couple? I feel like you and you and Dion Nash, both former captains of your um big national sports, cricket and
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netball. You you you guys were a power couple when you got together. Were they like a power couple in the 70s?
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>> Yeah, pro. Well, I mean, in a way, probably. I think athletics was big when
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we were growing up. Athletics was a really popular um you know, sport and so families would all compete together. Um
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and so a lot of the girls that I played with later in the silver ferns all did athletics coming through as well. So you
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know the the Robberies Annie um Anna Robbery and her family I met and competed against them at athletics from
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early age when we all started and Debbie Fuller who um MTO like same thing met her down at athletics and um and even I
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mccoreny I sprinted against her at um at nationals and you know so it was um you
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you knew them at athletics and then um later on met them all back again on the net court.
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>> Why didn't you gravitate towards athletics? You've got two brothers again
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like super sporty family. Your brothers Chris and Nathan >> um high jump and discus at the Olympic
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and com games level for Samoa. Why did you you must have spent so many years your early years like at the track with
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your parents. Why didn't you gravitate towards athletics? >> Um I did love so athletics was probably
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one of my first loves. Um and then it was I started making when I started playing I didn't start neble till I was
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10. Um, and then I started being pulled through into rep teams. Um, as I said, like I was, you know, six foot at 10
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and, um, so I've been 6'2, which I am now. Uh, since I was 12 and so I got
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pulled up into, you know, at under 21, Canterbury under 21s, I was 15. Um, the Canterbury senior team, I was 16 and
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then New Zealand at 17. So it was like a really fast trajectory through. Um, and
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so because of that, I tried to keep doing athletics as long as I could because I think that I even, you know,
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now with my own kids, try and um, we've tried to allow them to to do as many
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sports as they can when they're younger. It also helps with like your your muscle
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development and different movements and and then um and then and it was probably
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18. So when I was quite deep into New Zealand net stuff that I had to decide and and stopped
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>> stopped my track and field. Yeah. >> If you're if you're 6'2 at the age of
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12. Um but you don't have a saying it a net New Zealanders. They've got their
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eye on you. Wow. Were you were you taller than your parents? >> Uh yeah. >> Yeah. At what age? What age did you pass
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your parents? >> Uh at 12. Yeah. >> Unbelievable. >> So they Well, they say they dad's shrunk
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now, I think. But um they said they were 6' and 5'11. So it was quite early on.
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Um and yeah, I'm always amazed now actually down at the net courts that there's some real tall timber out there.
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Um you know, definitely we as as people are evolving and and getting bigger. Yeah.
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>> And did I hear a story that um one of your brothers almost drowned in the um
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in the the steeplechase? >> Yeah. >> Steeplechase pond. Do you call it a
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pond? >> Yeah. The little water hazard in the >> water. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The water jump.
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Yeah. >> What happened? >> Oh, mom and dad were competing. So they like they always sort of had the um
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chili bin on the side and we just had to stay near there apparently. And so he was I think mom was shotputting and she
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had asked someone to keep an eye on him but she turned around and he was face down floating in the steeple just chase
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water and so she went over hauled him out put him back on his feet and went back to do her third throw.
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>> That's amazing. Um, yes. So, being that height at, so 6' tall at the age of 10
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when you're still in primary school, then 6'2 at 12 when you're at intermediate.
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What were you like as a person? Were you self-conscious? Were you were you confident? What did people say? Like,
00:20:54
what's the weather like up there? >> Yeah. Super super self-con uh not
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self-confident, like self-conscious >> cuz you just want to fit in, right?
00:21:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so quite um and you don't didn't like sticking out in a
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crowd and and um and yeah, everyone sort of saying how tall you are and um which
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you know you're well aware of um and u and obviously you know when you're
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at school at that age and the boys grow slower than the girls anyway. Um and so you're just looking for something that
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you are good at. Um and so sport I guess um was an area that I kind of felt felt
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comfortable. Net was when I started playing net it was like I met a whole lot of other tall timber
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>> you found your tribe. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's right. That's right. Um and
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yeah and and then you know within our own family you you kind of it's it's the
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norm. I've got cousins um on my mom's side that are 67 68 um and so yeah and
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my my kids our kids now are um 6'5 6'4 so yeah >> and what was your connection like with
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your cultures growing up some culture or the Irish culture was was that a were you like raised as like a a wheat big
00:22:17
sitting kiwi kid or was there a connection to those to those roots? I mean we like you create your own you
00:22:24
create your own culture at home like your own it is like your family is your team that you're um that you're creating
00:22:31
and um and so we were very Catholic we um you know we went to had our rituals went to church um on Sundays we um had
00:22:44
we knew that simon um our son roots and um and we would have family come and live with us from over in Samo cuz dad
00:22:53
was the eldest of his um siblings and he was the first to come out to New Zealand
00:22:58
and then he would sort of sponsor his brothers and cousins and um yeah so you always were used to people coming
00:23:07
through and and um and mom was from a big family too so uh yeah it's and and I
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guess that whole thing around dad was coach once he was play um competing but then he was coaching and both mom and
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dad ended up coaching sport um and you always had the athletes um over and and it was like you had family upon family
00:23:31
um which is pretty much what we replicate now with Dion and myself with you know we we done some coaching and
00:23:41
you end up um you know that's your that's another team or another um another group that you belong to And and
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I think that's um that's the great thing about yeah about sport. >> I've never heard anyone frame it that
00:23:56
way, but that's a really that feels like an aha moment for me that your family is
00:23:59
your you know each family has their own sort of culture. >> Yeah. Looking at it
00:24:05
>> and you create it. You um >> you set the the rules and the boundaries
00:24:09
and the and how you engage. But um you know a whole lot comes down to um you know well everything happens at home
00:24:20
right so you talk about it all happening around the the dinner table um and that's where the real gold moments
00:24:29
happen you know where you're sharing um not just food but um because all cultures combine over over food um but
00:24:39
it's that um you know sharing of your day and being able to um you know talk
00:24:48
about learnings and and um and I think that's that's what I guess in a world
00:24:55
where things have got faster and faster and and uh and the ease of of um you know food and you kind of lose a lot of
00:25:06
those moments to connect and um you know even the old washing the dishes as as much as when we were growing up and you
00:25:13
fought and with your brothers and um but actually, you know, they were moments to
00:25:20
be able to um to unpack things and and um and chat about your day and um you know, and it's discipline. It's like,
00:25:28
you know, it's all stuff that um you you laugh about it, but when you lose that
00:25:34
time, I mean, that's just um >> you know, gets spent on on devices now,
00:25:39
you know. So um so I think it's that you can't take away um in a world of AI
00:25:45
which everyone is embracing and rightly so but you still can't take away those
00:25:50
um that people contact and >> that human connection. Yeah 100%. >> Yeah.
00:25:55
>> It's funny you and I are similar ages and there are parallels with our our
00:25:58
upbringings. Um there's the dishes thing. Um by the way we did an appalling job of washing and drying the dishes. I
00:26:04
look back now the dishwasher is a far more effective way. Um but also the um the Catholic thing as well. What what's
00:26:09
your relationship with religion like now? Did you sort of dump it as soon as you became an adult?
00:26:14
>> Um would you still call yourself? >> We um so we've brought um like all of
00:26:20
our our um children have come through the Catholic system, the schooling system. Um and I find it a really um
00:26:29
like everyone's entitled to their um their own beliefs. Um but it's a really
00:26:35
um you know I think the ma the the most important thing is that you need to believe in something um and um I find it
00:26:43
really um uh uh not well therapeutic but um just to to be able to escape as we were
00:26:53
traveling um after world champs with the net ballers. So it was in 1996 we um uh Debbie Debbie Fuller, Julie
00:27:06
Seymour, and myself um we went backpacking around Europe. And when we got to Italy um like to the Vatican,
00:27:15
they were like, "Benny, you need to go in and go to confession and tell us what
00:27:20
it's all about." they were just fascinated by the whole um and so so I did and um but um but
00:27:29
when we we you know we we also when we got to Venice um like we we couldn't find it was like a Friday night in the
00:27:38
middle of the it was like 10:00 p.m. and there was nowhere to stay. And um and we
00:27:42
ended up I looked up the guide book and there was a a Catholic convent on this little island um that only took women.
00:27:50
And um we basically slept in this church in these little single beds. Um and um they were like, "Bernie, you need to
00:27:57
lead the way." And so um but um but yeah, I I I feel like I feel quite grounded. um you know
00:28:09
in my um my beliefs. >> Right. So your faith definitely has a part in your life today.
00:28:14
>> It has a part in my life. Yeah. Yeah. I like I um and and and in my children's lives, it is
00:28:22
part of um like >> like very much so in Pacific culture. It's um very much part of of of the
00:28:32
culture and the way um and you know it's really I know when um you know my my
00:28:41
boys uh love and and and India as well um the singing and the beautiful hymns um the way the Pacific culture um really
00:28:51
embrace religion as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, Netball, so you make the silver fins
00:28:57
when you're 17 and you're still at school. Actually, I've got a photo here.
00:29:00
That's um >> Yeah, that's >> Can we just talk about this? >> How
00:29:08
can I just talk about it? This is like This is like a moment in time, right? So we we had finished um
00:29:20
we had finished a net training and uh these were these were not the days that clearly that um you know there were
00:29:28
false eyelashes and and uh >> hair and makeup. We even did our hair. >> We trained hard. Um and then they
00:29:37
basically said we're going to you know we've got your head and shoulders photos
00:29:41
for um for New Zealand. Can you just roll through and, you know, take these photos? I did not know that these photos
00:29:49
were going to stay with us for the next 37 years or whatever. >> I mean, that's on the that is on the New
00:29:58
Zealand website. >> But you're so young. Like, you're you're literally like just um I mean, you're
00:30:05
young young adult, but >> 18. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um Yes. About the same age as what
00:30:10
your daughter is now. And here you are playing for the national team. When when you think of it like that, like this is
00:30:15
the same age as your daughter. It's it's it's young, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. It was really young. And I
00:30:21
remember being absolutely petrified of well kind of in in awe of these players that um that I had been selected to play
00:30:32
with in the New Zealand team. And then um and we met that first tour that I was on um we met in Toranga and we were on a
00:30:43
Marai um and um you know there was Tanya Cox and Joan Hodson and and um and Julie
00:30:51
Carter and and Anna Nova these all these legends Jo and you know I'd watch them
00:30:58
playing and then next minute I was thrown in with them and I just remember every training
00:31:05
um in Toadonga feeling like I was going to vomit and like I just wanted to prove
00:31:10
that I was good enough to be there cuz um you know no one actually really talked to me. I mean I'm sure they did
00:31:18
but it felt like um I was competition um you know this young kid had come in and
00:31:25
was was trying to get their position um and so they were not going to make my path easy. Yeah. Was there anyone that
00:31:34
sort of any of the senior players that sort of took you under their wings or like motherthered you or nurtured you?
00:31:39
>> Uh, not that I should maybe not like I just um >> you like from where you are now, you
00:31:47
think that'd be an instinct thing to do, right? There's this young girl here
00:31:50
who's the imposter syndrome must be unreal at that age. >> Yeah. I was lucky that Leilani Reed um
00:31:56
had made the team at the same time and she was a year. So I was 17, she was 18 and um and so basically we were like
00:32:02
joined at the hip and um and we just we only spoke if we were spoken to um and just put our heads down and got on with
00:32:12
it. >> And um so this was the late ' 90s. So pre pre >> early 90s
00:32:18
>> early 90s. >> Yeah. 92. >> So So pre- internet pre- internet.
00:32:22
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um, the only negativity you would have, >> thankfully,
00:32:28
>> so I suppose the ne negativity you would have had back then would have been, um,
00:32:32
I don't know, maybe some comments from fans that you see in person or um, sporting reporters online or anything
00:32:38
like that, but yeah. Was there any negativity towards you and how did you handle it? Well, I had also kind of
00:32:43
displaced um well, I know Julie Town's End had been dropped or um for me coming
00:32:52
in as well. So, and she was a legend of the game. So, yeah, you were definitely under full scrutiny. Um and I had I
00:33:01
wasn't even in the New Zealand squad, so um so it was kind of being plucked from
00:33:07
obscurity >> like a wild card. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Um, so you just kind of
00:33:15
you just had to get on with it basically. Um, and and man up or toughen up and >> and um and see if you could make it.
00:33:25
>> Yeah. Well, and and you did. But yeah, was it tough? >> Yeah, it was tough. It was um Yeah, it
00:33:31
was tough. Like you just um you as I said, you you felt like being sick at every training. like you just ran as
00:33:37
hard as you could and and and I was fit because I was doing athletics then as well and um and I remember all the
00:33:44
fitness testing I was um you know in the top level um so and and that's youth on
00:33:51
your side as well but there's always lots of learnings um you know there's
00:33:56
the off the court and um and there's mental preparation and I guess we're
00:34:01
pretty blessed um well I that at Canterbury level, we'd had Lee Gibbs coaching us as well. So, for a couple of
00:34:09
years, I'd been under Lee and um and Lee had really prepared us well physically
00:34:16
like she and um and that was the early days of she was teaching at Hillton High School with um Gilbert and Noa. And so,
00:34:24
she had brought Gilbert in >> and it was his early foray into sports psychology, I guess. And um and so we'd
00:34:32
started and I remember Gilbert saying, "Oh, you to me um you know, you've got a
00:34:37
really good kind of um understanding or that kind of natural thinking and that sports psychology
00:34:45
field." And so, um, you know, it was that kind of you knew that some some people out there had some belief in you
00:34:51
and then, you know, there was that real potential to grow there >> cuz the outcome was very good obviously
00:34:57
like you're you're a legend of the game, but it could have it could have crushed
00:35:00
you, right? It could have easily easily gone the other way. What What are your memories of the your first time playing
00:35:05
for New Zealand putting on the black dress? Um, so I didn't play the first tour that I was on against Australia and
00:35:11
um I felt really um I just remember watching the speed of the ball and feeling um like it was like
00:35:21
that imposter syndrome. It was so fast and um the ball just spun around and um yeah the and thinking I'm not sure if I
00:35:31
want to go on the court. Um and then my second tour was to England at the end of
00:35:37
the year. So it was my seventh form year at school. Um the the under21 World Cup
00:35:43
was happening um in December and um and I'd been aiming for that. Um but they
00:35:50
didn't select me for the under 21s. They took me to England instead the month
00:35:53
before that. Um and I played every test over there. My first test was at Wembley. Um there were like a massive
00:36:02
packed stadium. It was full. Um and I Tanya Cox was behind me. So I took the bibet gold offense and as we were um
00:36:12
we got out on the court and it felt like the ball was spinning and then all of a
00:36:16
sudden Tans just smashed the ball into my guts and um so I had to catch it and then I was away and that was it.
00:36:25
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Then I suppose you just sort of go into that sort of flow state or just
00:36:31
muscle memory or whatever it is. You just know what to do. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just look for the ball and
00:36:36
go for it. Go get it. Intercept it. >> And then um 18 it was suggested that you
00:36:41
retire because you had knee issues. >> Yeah. So I went to um the next so it was
00:36:47
the next year the next tour um we went to the world games in the Hague and in our pre just before we left New Zealand
00:36:56
um I in a drill I hurt my knee and um and so I did the whole tour over to the Hague um played the world um cup world
00:37:09
games and then came back and my knee was by the end of the before you. It was so
00:37:15
huge. Um and so they went to see what damage I'd done. Um and yeah, so it's as
00:37:22
it turned out um I had like I had done my cut my ligaments and my cartilage, but I also had um like bone chips and
00:37:35
damage. a bit like um like Michael Jones the wear and tear kind of knee um damage
00:37:44
and I know mom and dad's coach Baldi Breus always he reckoned that you know cuz I'd grown so quickly um that there's
00:37:54
always going to be a weak spot and so his theory was that my knees were >> were the weak spot um yeah so then they
00:38:02
the doctors recommended that I retire uh from New Zealand level um and just swim
00:38:10
for pleasure and be a be a university student which um which didn't sit well
00:38:16
with me. So I just figured that I >> I wanted to have no regrets and um so
00:38:22
I've retrained how my biomechanics. So I was really pigeon towed. Um and so that
00:38:29
was putting pressure down the outside of my knees. So had to learn to to refire all my muscles um and walk again then
00:38:40
run again. It was a really slow recovery but I was just had focused on that end goal of coming back and seeing if I
00:38:48
could play for New Zealand again. Um and um being able to manage my my knees and
00:38:54
come back. Um I don't think you know after a big injury it's pretty hard to
00:38:59
come back as as good as you were before. Um but yeah, I guess I edged out um to make you know do the 10 years with the
00:39:07
silver ferns after that. >> Right. Yes. So for your entire career, which was um all things given was was a
00:39:13
long one and 76 76 tests. >> 78 >> 78 tests. Um yeah. Was it just a case of like just
00:39:21
coexisting with this knee? >> Yeah. The entire time? Um, you know, I was lucky that um um Sharon, our physio,
00:39:28
would help me manage it cuz um it was hard to not do everything that everyone did. So, um but I would, you know, on
00:39:38
tour cuz you would train two or three times a day on tour. Um but with loading or um on a hard surface, so the concrete
00:39:46
surface cuz I cut I basically had no um no cushioning in my knee. And so if it blew up, like to get the swelling down
00:39:58
was really hard. Um, and so you had to manage the swelling. Um, because it meant that if you've got all that
00:40:05
swelling, your reactions slow. >> Um, so that was like Sharon would watch me running and see my movements and
00:40:14
check the swelling and if it's too swollen, you can't train today. Um and
00:40:19
so um kind of hard within a team where everyone's going, you know, at full full
00:40:27
speed and and to every training that I would have to sit out some trainings and um but then you were still fighting for
00:40:35
your bib on the court. So, you know, kind of hard for some of the other players to understand that um that I
00:40:44
wasn't just like it wasn't just, you know, getting a free ticket out of there. Yeah.
00:40:49
>> Yeah. >> Oh, you weren't Yeah. just like trying to get off training or anything.
00:40:52
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. What sort of impact, if any, did this have on you mentally?
00:40:57
>> Uh oh. Look, you just um you can only control what you can control. I had to
00:41:01
do a lots of water work. had to um had to get better at swimming, but running in the water, you know, it was the
00:41:08
beginning of the flotation belts, you know, jogging. I've done some of that.
00:41:13
>> Oh my god, it's tedious. >> Um yeah, and so being able to um you
00:41:19
know, bring in different methods of training as well. So I remember in a tour to England um and uh and we were at
00:41:28
Crystal Palace and um yeah so I wasn't so in the end um I wasn't the only one
00:41:33
that was aqua jogging you know I remember Linda Vangar and the rest of the defenders coming with me um so it
00:41:40
probably brought in different you made them look at different methods of training too
00:41:45
>> yes I've had some knee issue I I I gave aqu jogging a go a few years ago and I I
00:41:49
thought oh maybe it maybe it won't be like I imagine it to But it was exactly
00:41:52
how I imagined it was 70-y old women. Like just a me and a pool full of like women in their 70s.
00:42:00
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you're a runner, it's um it's it is quite a hard um
00:42:06
transition. Um >> yeah. So I I think that >> that you have to work within within your
00:42:13
limits as well. But um you know prior to that, prior to big injuries, I remember
00:42:18
that whole mindset of thinking, you know, basically that I could get to any ball on the court. Um you know, I
00:42:25
remember Lynn Gunson was our first um coach and she used to do a drill where um they would throw the ball at 2/3 and
00:42:35
and time that you could get all the way back to the circle to get the ball. Um, and so basically that made us believe
00:42:43
that that and I believed that I could get any ball within those 2/3 once it was in the air.
00:42:51
>> Wow. Um but I think you know as um as injuries sort of set in by the end of my
00:42:56
career I was pretty much strapped up um two ankles two knees um and that and and
00:43:03
that's kind of the trigger for um you know when it was time to retire was thinking of future and um and you know
00:43:12
having being able to do things with my with my future children. >> How's your body now? Have you you've had
00:43:20
a knee reconstruction or >> not a reconstruction. I've had um you know I luckily I didn't do an ACL but
00:43:27
just um you know lateral lateral ligaments and lots of clearing out of the debris
00:43:32
>> in my knee. Um and then my ankle bit of wear and tear in there as well. Mhm.
00:43:40
>> And while this um Silver Fern's career was going on, it was all on the backdrop
00:43:44
initially with um the end of secondary school, but then um teachers college as well and then um as a secondary school
00:43:51
teacher, which is amazing really. So there was there was no money in net or did you get some like pdiums when you
00:43:57
were >> uh per DMs, but like there was really no we we were we were amateur. Um but I
00:44:04
always remember Cheryl Wells, our New Zealand manager saying um you know but we aim to be more professional than the
00:44:11
professionals and um conduct ourselves in such a way um that we um you know shine above and um and so that was that
00:44:19
was how we conducted ourselves and um and so a lot of us were teachers uh because it
00:44:27
fitted in with tours um and and we all you had to if you weren't working, you
00:44:33
were studying. Um, and so, but I do think that that um that definitely helped for post post career, post New
00:44:43
Zealand career um that transition um wasn't as difficult in that you you always had something to fall back on or
00:44:51
you had another career and you had um other identities as well within. >> Was it hard juggling both though?
00:44:58
>> H yeah, there was some crazy times. There were definitely some some crazy
00:45:02
times of um like when I was teaching at Ita Girls and we were about to head off on the tour to South Africa um and it
00:45:09
was exams and I had um hundreds of exams to mark um and I couldn't get through
00:45:15
them all and write the reports um and we were flying out we were flying into camp
00:45:20
to do um sort of our media you know photos and signings and trainings um and so I I talked to my HOD and I packaged
00:45:29
them all up and I said I was going to courier them down um before we flew out to South Africa. Um, and I just remember
00:45:37
like each English exam was taking me an hour to mark and I had 60 to finish off.
00:45:44
And so every spare moment I was uh, you know, in my room marking these exams and
00:45:51
and I just remember we were signing the posters like we had these signing sessions and um, and Belinda Colling was
00:45:59
saying to me um, you know, how how can we help, Bernie? can we help you like get through this? And so I had a few of
00:46:06
them line up and some were helping me transfer the mark into my marking book um and then onto the reports. And then I
00:46:15
was writing the comments and then you know we were checking off like and and I managed to get them in the courier and
00:46:22
send them off before we departed for Johannesburg and um yeah but but but even when you thought you were busy um I
00:46:32
think that was kind of the refreshing thing. you would come into camp and you know Leslie Nickel was studying physio.
00:46:39
She went on to study um medicine and um and Linda Vangana was you know she was running her she was working and and
00:46:49
studying and running her local youth group and and um caring for parents. It was like as as busy as you thought you
00:46:57
were when you got into camp, you knew there was always someone that was busier than you and there was always someone
00:47:05
that that was doing more than you. So, it just kind of put things in perspective.
00:47:10
>> That's such a great story though, outsourcing your marking to other silver
00:47:14
firms. That's >> team outsourced the marking. They were transferring the marks and there were
00:47:21
jobs that they could do. Okay, calm down. Calm down. It's um >> calling me out.
00:47:28
>> It's um it's a surreal thought though. Like so here you are, one of New
00:47:31
Zealand's top net ballers uh in in our national team playing at the highest level and you've got a class load of
00:47:36
kids like um yeah, you were kind of famous at the time. >> Well, it didn't matter to them. They
00:47:41
didn't they didn't care like they >> I suppose. Yeah, that shine would wear
00:47:44
off very quickly. Like at the end, you're just a teacher that's going to
00:47:48
>> give them good marks or bad marks. >> Yeah, that's right. And you, you know,
00:47:52
when you're teaching in the classroom, you're trying to get them, you know, to
00:47:55
all pass their exams, right? >> And um becoming captain of the silver fins at 20. Is 22 very young to become
00:48:02
captain? It seems very young. Obviously, you were experienced. You'd been in the
00:48:06
team for 5 years by then, but yeah. Was that a young age to become captain? >> Yeah, I think so. Um, probably. I I had
00:48:14
some experience with cuz my second year in the Canterbury team um Lee made me uh vice captain of
00:48:22
the Canterbury team >> at um 18 >> and so um which again poses challenges
00:48:30
of captaining much much older players and more experienced players and um and so you you definitely
00:48:40
have to find a way to earn their respect. and to be able to lead them. Um, >> how do you do that? How do you find
00:48:47
their respect? >> Well, only by performing on the performing on the court first and
00:48:52
foremost. Um, but also, you know, respecting what they bring to the team as well. I know um
00:49:01
you know John Graham was one of Dion's um managers in one of what he views to
00:49:08
be their their one of their best cricket teams um with the black caps and he always said when he was leading and um
00:49:18
you know in charge at at Oakland Grammar that he surrounded himself by um you know the best and so more you know I I
00:49:28
think you know more competent, more um intelligent is in that uh surround yourself with with the best. So they
00:49:35
push you but they also um you know they fill the gaps that you you have as well.
00:49:41
And so I think that's the trick with with leadership in that space is that you um really tap into them leading with
00:49:50
you um and how you motivate them and make them feel valued as senior members is important. Mhm.
00:49:57
>> How much harder is it um being kept into just being a player? Like in terms of
00:50:01
the workload, >> uh there's quite a lot of responsibility just in terms of the commitments out off
00:50:08
the court, but also you uh you've been put in that position because you have
00:50:13
the physical ability to perform and you need to be able to >> perform and be relied on on the court.
00:50:21
So, there's that consistency key. Um and then off the court being able to interact with the media um be the
00:50:29
spokesperson as well. Um but also you know it's that bringing the team together and um so there's
00:50:39
there's quite a bit in terms of and planning with the coach. So the coach and captain relationship's key.
00:50:46
>> Um and you know I know it's um and there always is a captain for a coach. So um
00:50:55
so you know when there's changes there there's inevitably um there'll be you
00:51:01
know there's a there's a team to lead a team and um so you need to you need to
00:51:07
work well together. >> Do you have a favorite coach from your career like a standout? I think back and
00:51:13
think how lucky I was to have been exposed to such good coaches um across the board and and you always will um you
00:51:23
know you'll take a little bit you'll take some pieces that resonate from each
00:51:28
coach that you've been exposed to and you kind of create your own um your own
00:51:33
combination. So, like as I said, Lee was, you know, she was former Silver Fern and she was the Canterbury coach at
00:51:40
the time and um and so I learned a lot about that um work ethic and um and that mental mental power and resilience. Um
00:51:50
then I had Lynn Gunson who was um she was she used to give me things to think about that I'd never really entertained
00:52:02
that that thought. So kind of challenged your thinking. Um and then Yvonne uh Willering when she was coaching New
00:52:11
Zealand and she um she really focused on the the intercepts and she was a goal defense as well. Um and so um she tapped
00:52:22
into that like that idea of you're in charge on defense and you're setting up
00:52:28
and making the space and making it look free. was a real um and then being able to go and and gobble them up, you know.
00:52:35
Um so I enjoyed that. And then I had Robin >> um brought in who was um you know she
00:52:43
was right time for me to be exposed to Robin. Um she was also young internationals um in the which was the
00:52:51
old feeder to the New Zealand team. So the young young crew coming through. Um, so yeah, we were really lucky that we
00:52:59
had a a good stable of um of former Silver Ferns that had gone straight back into coaching and um and imparting their
00:53:08
knowledge. So um yeah, in that space, >> what what would be um your absolute peak
00:53:16
and absolute rock bottom from your time in Silver Ferns? Uh, rock bottom was losing the 99 world champs um in Christ
00:53:30
Church. Um, >> I had that. >> You got to say I've written it down.
00:53:35
>> I actually have that in brackets cuz I wondered if Yeah. So, you were um lost
00:53:38
in the final to Australia and you had a big lead going into the fourth quarter. Yeah.
00:53:43
>> And then and then lost. Yeah. >> Yeah. And um it was so loud in that
00:53:47
stadium. Uh we'd done so much work, you know, for the four years prior to that.
00:53:54
Um we was super fit. We were definitely on paper we were the better team. And um
00:54:00
and then in the last quarter um you know, Australia just clawed back and um it was so loud in the stadium
00:54:10
that you could not hear anything. Um, so >> loud screaming for the silver ferns or
00:54:18
for >> the whole Well, I mean, yeah, for the silver ferns, but for the whole game.
00:54:21
So, okay. >> But, um, you you so much so that you struggled to connect with the players
00:54:31
>> down the court, which is really important on the court, right? So, I just remember Don's shooting um and and
00:54:39
cuz we played together in Southland um and I would always talk to her, call to her and on the
00:54:48
shots and um and yeah, you just knew that she couldn't hear you and it was just um you're so isolating and then we
00:54:56
lost in the final few seconds of that game. There was a a missed shot, the ball came down. um I couldn't stop it
00:55:04
and then they had a center pass and um and yeah, they shot it through and won. Um and and just there was absolute
00:55:13
silence in the stadium. Everyone was on their feet and I just remember looking at the rest of the team and we were
00:55:22
like, "God, what have we done?" Like this is um yeah, we've lost it. Um, and
00:55:29
it it took it, you know, a long time for those individual players to to recover from from that. Um, and to build back
00:55:39
up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Were you captain at the time? >> Uh,
00:55:45
no. Belinda Colling was captain. Yeah. Yeah. I was Spice. I think I was Spice. Yeah.
00:55:50
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. How How Yeah. Yeah. How long did
00:55:52
it take to get over that? When I had your um your husband Dion uh on the podcast, he's he said there's times even
00:55:58
now that he'll be in the shower thinking about things he could have done differently through his career. Like is
00:56:03
it something that still I mean it's a long time ago. It's quarter of a century
00:56:06
ago, but you still >> Yeah. Is it something that still plays on your mind from time to time or not
00:56:11
really? >> Well, yeah. Yeah, I mean you think about you do think about those um those losses
00:56:16
and but that's look you and they're crushing but the big learning um you
00:56:24
know that's when you learn the most um through that adversity. Um we had just
00:56:30
before that um before the world champs Leilani Reed had passed away. So Leil Lani I'd started my silver ferns career
00:56:38
in the team with her in ' 92. Um and so in many ways there was, you know, some perspective in that um
00:56:49
you know, we were still, you know, we had lost and it felt like we're rock bottom, but we're still we're still
00:56:55
blessed with life and still Yeah. Yeah, that's right. We're still alive.
00:56:59
>> Um and um and so but it did make you re rethink goals and and what you wanted to achieve. Um, and
00:57:11
then conversely, you know, when you have your big wins, I always found that you um you think it's going to be more more
00:57:20
elation than there is. Like I remember the big winds with the Sting um and even with New Zealand and in many
00:57:29
ways it was relief um because you had that absolute belief that you could do it and so when you actually fulfilled it
00:57:36
it was more relief and absolute exhaustion like dragging yourself off the court than um than Yeah.
00:57:46
>> Yeah. an expectation rather than a surprise like yeah well good this is the
00:57:50
outcome we should have had. this is what we've been working towards. And um and
00:57:55
and then knowing that you had to reset again. Like after every tour, >> you have a massive time of almost a real
00:58:04
downer. Um because you're on tour together, you're living and breathing everything. Um you know, you're rooming
00:58:09
with someone the whole time and then you would come back to everyday life. Um and
00:58:15
have that real sit on the end of your bed moment of um you know, back to the day-to-day grind. Um because
00:58:24
there's a real adrenaline rush obviously with um with sport itself and then when
00:58:29
you're in the limelight for New Zealand um even more so you carry that kind of
00:58:34
responsibility of the country that feeling that you're out there you're you're very privileged to wear the
00:58:41
silver fern and to be one of 12 at that time to lead the country. Um and so you know there is that shouldering of
00:58:51
responsibility that um that you have over that period as well. >> Oh, what about the absolute peak? So
00:58:57
we've addressed the rock bottom, but what's the what's the peak? Is it the
00:59:00
Commonwealth Games Medal? No. >> Uh the Well, um that's what I was saying
00:59:06
that like when you did have the wins that you um >> Oh, you're just expecting them.
00:59:11
>> Well, well, not expecting them. It was just relief that you had achieved your
00:59:15
goal. It was um you know when you got the team to fire and be at its absolute best was um was a real kind of you know
00:59:25
that was key. Yeah. And so I think that um you know I think really fondly of my time down in the Sting with um with
00:59:38
Robin and um and the the winning run that we had down there with her. But um you know and it was and it was creating
00:59:48
a fervor in um in an area that um they just lapped it up and um and the full support. Um and then I think just that
01:00:00
um yeah I mean always playing captaining New Zealand's a real honor as well. So
01:00:07
that's probably the peak. Yeah. the Southern Sting era that you're talking
01:00:11
about. Was that with with the glitter wigs? Was that the glitter wigs era? >> The wigs.
01:00:15
>> That was That was massive, eh? Where did Where did the wig thing start from? That
01:00:19
was huge for a timer. >> I'm not sure, but um everyone >> wore the glitter wigs. The look sharp
01:00:23
wigs. >> It was um you know, it was big. They queued overnight. You know, it was the
01:00:29
beginning of the queuing overnight outside Centennial Hall for um for a spot to watch the team play. And um you
01:00:37
know it was a tiny hall and it was um people took their sleeping bags and um they queued for tickets and they queued
01:00:44
to get in and and it was kind of felt like a real turning point for for netball itself like that um that was the
01:00:50
start of the national league that kind of started momentum. >> Yeah. >> And how did you um how was the
01:00:58
transition to life postp profofessional sport? >> Uh >> did you did you live on your own terms
01:01:04
or >> Yeah. So Dion and I retired within the same year. Um we were um basically
01:01:16
his back and my knees and ankles and um you know there was a lot of Voltar and >> he needed an endorsement deal.
01:01:26
>> Um yeah the anti-inflammatories um just to train and get by. Um and so but then
01:01:34
there's always a a really difficult transition for all athletes um when you retire
01:01:41
>> and um and so we both started studying the post-graduate um career counseling for elite
01:01:48
performers which which sort of starts out in that phase and um and uh I don't
01:01:54
think he completed it but I I completed that qualification and then sort of jumped back into working with athletes
01:02:01
that um on their career career pathways sort of um journey and um and then that that helped me understand what we were
01:02:12
going through. And they and the theory of it is that the more hats that you have while you're playing elite sport um
01:02:21
provides a an a smoother transition or um a shorter transition. often like there was case studies of of triathletes
01:02:30
or um that you know took um you know 10 or more years to transition. Um it's
01:02:36
because it's your it's your view of yourself and um is wrapped up in your
01:02:43
persona. Um so the more personas and then and the wider network of friends outside of your kind of chosen sport is
01:02:50
also important too. >> Yeah, it's interesting you say that. Um, I've asked um, Toenzo Bazone on the
01:02:57
podcast a couple of times. Very, very good. Um, Iron Man, but he's he's finished doing that now.
01:03:01
>> Um, and he said he's keen to do the podcast, but just not right now. He
01:03:05
goes, "I need to I just need to figure out, you know, where I am and what I'm
01:03:07
doing next before I do it." >> Um, because I think there's part of him
01:03:11
that maybe feels like a bit embarrassed or a bit inadequate at the moment that he hasn't figured out what the next, you
01:03:16
know, chapter of his life is. >> Yeah. >> It's interesting. It leaves a big void I
01:03:20
guess say and it's a void that like 99% of us even more than that can't even
01:03:23
imagine what it's like. >> Well, it's like well it's it's quite
01:03:27
similar to um you know someone that's possibly had 25 years in banking and then they've um decided to change
01:03:34
pathways or they've um or they've retired um you know or long you after a
01:03:38
longer period of time. And so your whole your whole idea of yourself is wrapped up in that in that career. And so um
01:03:46
yeah there's there's um trying to figure out your next steps and um and feeling like you are starting
01:03:56
at the beginning again is is challenging. Yeah. And your idea of success and you know your like I think
01:04:05
with sport as well like your whole um ego is wrapped up in in um your success in sport.
01:04:17
must have been helpful you and D on having each other. Um you both in this very very unique position where you both
01:04:23
um yeah played at the your sport at the highest level both being captains for the country. So I suppose if he's having
01:04:28
a bad day maybe you'll bring him up or if you're having a bad day he'll pump
01:04:31
him up. Is that how that sort of dynamic worked at that time? Yeah, really sim I
01:04:35
mean like-minded um that we could discuss um the ups and downs and the challenges um you know the injury
01:04:42
challenges and um but also um that ability I think to to challenge each other other on different things. Um
01:04:53
yeah, I think we and we work well together like um um you know, we're similar in many ways but different very
01:05:04
different. We probably people will um think I think from the I think from the outset that people think that um that
01:05:16
I'm one way and he's the other and um but we're actually the opposite. Um
01:05:20
yeah. What what what do you think people think? Um well um you know like he um like I
01:05:30
think they always used to say that I I was always kind of the smiling um you know smiling and seem really nice but I
01:05:38
can be pretty tough underneath it all and and he will keep overthinking things and he's pretty sensitive. Um, and um,
01:05:49
and you know, around the house, Dion's all about color and look and feel and
01:05:56
um, and I've got a tool belt. >> That's cool. >> I always joke I always joke at work that
01:06:04
I'm probably like the the after the technicians that um I'm like, "Yeah,
01:06:10
that's a yeah, get to the the the real steps and to the answer." M. So, what's
01:06:17
the um what's the meeting story with you guys? Was that Soul Soulbar? He was at
01:06:20
at the table next to you and he showed you some >> Lemon Lemon um which was down um down on
01:06:27
Princess Wolf and um and so I was out with two of the net ballers um and we were up for the review of the 99 world
01:06:38
champs loss and um and Dion had been sent home from India injured um and he was out with his niece and sister for
01:06:49
his birthday. Um, and yeah, he brought some drinks across and said, "Hard luck
01:06:53
about World Champs." And then, um, and then pulled his chair in a little bit
01:06:58
later. Um, but that was not after when he put the drinks down that I thought um that well, Belinda Blair um had said,
01:07:11
"Is that Dion Nash?" Um, and Leslie had said, "Who?" and and um and so yeah, he um and then he
01:07:23
Gilbert and Noa connected us actually after that. >> Oh, so he hit Gilbert up for your
01:07:29
number. Is that is that what is that what you mean? >> Possibly. >> That might be the story that's gone
01:07:35
around. >> Um did what did you did you think anything of him at that first meeting?
01:07:40
Did you think, "Oh, he's he's kind of cute." Or >> um >> uh Yeah. Yeah. I thought um that um you
01:07:47
know we we had a bit of fun and I did think that maybe he got the wrong idea. Um and I remember trying to he was he
01:07:55
was like oh I'll buy I'll buy a drink and then um I put my arm out to block
01:08:00
him and uh he slipped his arm through and got the wrong idea. So that kind of really tells that's what I mean about
01:08:07
our personalities like and he was all excited and he was like oh and I thought Jesus he's got the wrong
01:08:15
idea. >> Oh that's that's so that is that paint made such a funny visual. So you're
01:08:19
sitting there blocking him and >> I went to block him and then he was like
01:08:22
slre through. >> So well when did you when did you realize he was he was the one? Was it
01:08:28
like a slow burn or >> Oh, no. He he rang um um I was at I was doing college of education in Chicago
01:08:36
and um rang a Bloxom who um was at Tik down there with me um was with me and Dion had rung and left a message and
01:08:46
when I heard the message she said, "Oh, oh, you looked um you know, you know,
01:08:50
your reaction was quite excited." But um yeah, we just um you know, I think we we
01:08:56
got on really well from the beginning. >> Who said I love you first? >> I can't remember that.
01:09:03
>> Yes, you can. >> I imagine it was I imagine it was him. >> Hey,
01:09:11
>> he's not defend himself. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. How long have you been married
01:09:15
now? What is it? Actually, I've got a photo here of you guys um on your wedding day. Look at that.
01:09:19
>> A look how young we are. Um, >> you do look so young, eh? So, but that
01:09:24
was that you you weren't though. I mean, it's it's quite funny. So, that was um
01:09:28
you'd both, you know, represented New Zealand and captain into your national
01:09:31
teams at that point. Um, but you do you look so >> 2003 we um we're coming up 23 years
01:09:37
married. >> Yeah. >> Ever come close to packing it in? >> Uh, no.
01:09:42
>> No, >> no. Um, what's the like like you kind of weather most things
01:09:49
>> together? Um, as I said, I think we we're quite a good team. Like, we we
01:09:55
even out each other. Um, and you know, we're able to kind of stretch each other
01:10:02
and even out things and and work through. Um, and we always we always manage to have fun together as well. So,
01:10:11
>> yeah. Yeah. >> Yes. It's a really successful partnership, eh?
01:10:15
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think um, you know, we talk we talk a lot. We talk
01:10:19
about everything. Um, so when you say about that like this early morning, um, this is not that early morning, but um,
01:10:29
but we >> 7:00 a.m. on a Friday. Um, we have a little ritual cuz I always bounce out of
01:10:34
bed and um, the espresso machine's been on overnight and I make us um, an espresso and we sit and talk um, first
01:10:44
thing in the morning about the day ahead and what's on and and what needs to be
01:10:48
done and um, yeah, and we check in during the day. >> Is is that a a natural thing or is that
01:10:53
something that you've had to sort of work on? Because I think that's probably
01:10:56
um, jeez, you know, the demise of a lot of relationships. you just don't make a
01:11:01
conscious effort to have that communication piece. >> Yeah, I think communication's key. I
01:11:05
mean, we've had times where we probably haven't been great. I've been, you know,
01:11:09
accused of not um being a great communicator at times when you just kind of get and that's often when you get
01:11:15
really busy with things, right? And um and so it's it is about prioritizing it.
01:11:20
Um and and it can get pretty bloom and hectic with um when you've got three toddlers. Um, I remember it was the
01:11:29
crazy days of three under four and a half was pretty full on. Um, but I think you you you end up making it through
01:11:38
>> um those ages and stages um >> the trenches. >> Yeah, the trenches.
01:11:45
>> Um and uh and you know and making sure that you enjoy uh the time that you do
01:11:51
have with you know goes pretty quickly where the the they're out the door in no
01:11:56
time. What's been your biggest adversity as a couple? >> Um, [Music] I don't know. Probably the transition
01:12:09
from >> um elite sport across like Dion finding um a career um you know outside of cricket that he'd
01:12:20
never had a job other than cricket um until he retired. whereas I was in quite a different
01:12:27
>> situation. Um so I think that creates a bit of um you know um some challenges in itself
01:12:36
where uh he didn't he didn't know where his next step was. say like you say um
01:12:44
and then I think then conversely when he jumped in there and was um was working at 42 below and doing a lot of traveling
01:12:52
overseas um you know that always puts strain on on um on relationships when you especially like that's the alcohol
01:12:59
industry is not a particularly healthy family environment you know >> um and so when we started having having
01:13:08
kids the um and that was when he um broke away and said, "Look, I I want to
01:13:14
I want to try and um I don't know if I can work for I don't I don't know if I
01:13:19
can work for anyone like as in employable skills. Um so, I'd like to start my own business." And I said,
01:13:25
"Well, yep, let's let you know, do it now and um give it a go. Give it a go
01:13:31
for at least 10 years and and now's the time to do it." And so, you know, we
01:13:36
sold our house and he did and um you know, set up in our next home um you know, boxes of triumph and disaster in
01:13:44
the hallway and and um kids crawling over it and kind of making your way. Um, and I think it's been like his labor of
01:13:54
love, but he absolutely is so invested in in the brand and and loves what he, you know, the products that he's
01:14:02
producing and and the journey that he's on. Um and then that whole transition
01:14:08
for me um post kids like kind of juggling work and going back to to find yourself post um you know being a mom
01:14:17
which I love being a mom but um but also you know trying to figure out something
01:14:22
that you're good at as well. >> I didn't realize that aspect of triumphant disaster which is it's a
01:14:28
great brand that he's built but I didn't realize that you guys were all in like
01:14:31
selling the house putting all your money into it. >> Big risk. >> Big risk. big risk.
01:14:35
>> But I think that's kind of like your um you know um you do it as a couple and
01:14:40
you do it as a as a team and um and just um you know you can always change course.
01:14:47
>> You can um you know really everything's within your your control and um just try
01:14:53
and make good decisions together. >> Which products do you like? Do you have
01:14:57
Shearers soap in the shower? Do you use Rock and Roll face scrub? >> Rock and Roll. So, the rock and roll um
01:15:03
base scrub and um and the the moisturizer. So, the game face is a is like >> like we just the kids uh the teenagers
01:15:14
fly through the game face. Um we're always stealing Dion. You're like running around the house. Um
01:15:23
but yeah, it's u there's there's products all over the place. Yeah. >> Oh, they are they're great products. Um
01:15:30
yeah, I'm sure you've played a part in it, but I mean it's his baby. You must
01:15:33
be so proud of like what he's built. >> Yeah, really proud. And um but but
01:15:37
really it's it's been all him. He's creative. I just provide some home
01:15:42
support. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, two national captains in the house. Who who's um like who's like the leader
01:15:48
or the boss or is it is it sort of >> Do you have to ask that question? I mean, is it is it obvious? I'm the boss.
01:15:57
>> Yeah. from from my dealings with him like he seems he seems like quite a
01:16:00
passive cruisy guy and so I suppose someone has to have the role of leader but yeah I just wonder how it is or does
01:16:05
this change from day to day period to period. Oh yeah. No, it does. It does change
01:16:11
like um but um yeah, I mean I'm probably the the home stability in in terms of like feeding
01:16:22
everyone and um and um keeping some continuity. Um but yeah, Dion's that like you know, he he's
01:16:32
a driver as well. But um you know we definitely I mean I keep saying to the to Indie Jet and Soul that look if you
01:16:41
can survive these parents you can survive anyone out there in the >> in the world.
01:16:47
>> Yeah. Oh well what do you what do you mean? >> We're pretty we're pretty tough like I
01:16:52
think >> like tough on tough on them or just high expectations or >> Yeah. high expectations but um you know
01:16:59
tough but fair but um I I don't think it can be easy for them >> being our as in people's expectations of
01:17:06
them >> outside like um you know looking in like expecting them to be >> you know sports people or um you know
01:17:17
talent or um kind of all eyes on them. You just really want them to develop their own in their own way and in their
01:17:26
own personalities and not be known as Dion and Bernie's Yeah. You know, Dion's
01:17:30
son or Bernie's daughter. Yeah. >> Yeah. Step. Yeah. Yeah. That piece must
01:17:35
be hard. I've had um both um Ryan Fox and Grant Fox on the podcast and um Yeah. The most recently Grant Fox and he
01:17:42
said it was um >> it was like really cool for him to see that he's now you Ryan Fox's dad. Yeah.
01:17:47
Yeah, for so long it was um Oh, that's Ryan, Grant Fox's son. >> So, from a parenting perspective, that's
01:17:53
really cool. Do you um Yes. So, you you guys both um both former captains as we've established and you're in an HR
01:17:59
role at Highandi. So, you're obviously very good at um you know, communication
01:18:03
and having difficult conversations. Do you what's your um argument styles like
01:18:08
or are you you both quite good at? >> Uh I'm probably naturally a bit of an
01:18:13
avoider. Um because I'm I like I do like peace. Um and >> well, no one likes conflict. E and I
01:18:20
suppose if you're dealing with >> Dion loves a good argument. He loves a
01:18:23
like a really good and sometimes he will he will kind of needle me to antagonize.
01:18:29
Um and uh and yeah, but I can be pretty stubborn when I want to be. So um dig the heels in. What
01:18:37
>> what would um Yeah. If if he was here, what do what do you think he would say
01:18:41
your best and worst qualities are? Uh [Music] well I probably he would say that my my
01:18:51
stubbornness probably is one of my worst qualities. >> How bad is it? >> Um and then maybe my best qualities is
01:19:00
um that he he has observed before that he said he he marvels that I genuinely love people. So a people person.
01:19:11
>> Yeah. >> What about him? best and worst qualities. >> Uh um best qualities probably his energy
01:19:18
and um and creativeness and drive. Um and worst qualities um he can be quite black and white on um
01:19:32
yeah when he gets something in his head. >> Yeah. >> A fixed mindset. Are you guys quite
01:19:38
competitive with each other? >> Yeah. Who's worse? >> Uh you it would be hard to pull push some,
01:19:46
you know, to single someone out. Our whole our whole household is pretty competitive. We play sport um eagerly as
01:19:56
a family. Um but there's always fights. Yeah. >> What about with um with with things that
01:20:02
don't necessarily require that sort of level of extreme competitiveness like
01:20:05
board games, >> cards, >> just anything. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, did I hear a story about you guys
01:20:11
like during um the co lockdown like you were like >> beep test? >> Yeah. Yeah. You going to the park each
01:20:17
day? Eh, >> twice a week. >> Twice a week. >> It might have been three times. Yeah. We
01:20:21
would run the kids beep test, but we did it with them and um and people from the
01:20:25
park would bring their deck chairs out and watch us. There'd be arguments on the way home
01:20:34
about like someone not hitting the line. Oh my god, that's amazing. >> The cone.
01:20:39
>> So, what does what does home look life look like now? So, your eldest has left
01:20:43
home. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. He's at university. Um we've got two at home. Um so, it's still um I
01:20:50
mean, we always said about having three children that it was like going, you know, going from two to three um was
01:20:56
like going from man-on-man to his own defense. And um and now we've gone back
01:21:01
to man on man again. So, um, and it means that we we've got one more to teach to drive and, um, and yeah, but,
01:21:11
um, yeah, it won't be long before they're all out the door, I'm sure. So,
01:21:15
we're kind of refocusing >> on um, preparing ourselves ourselves for for life after children, probably.
01:21:22
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How how how is this chapter looking for you guys? Must it's
01:21:26
a strange a strange time in in life, eh? >> Yeah. Yeah, it is. But, um, >> but you're still you're still both quite
01:21:31
young on the big scheme of things. We're not that young. There's like we're
01:21:34
actually kind of um we're old parents at schools at some of the schools with the
01:21:41
um you know at the pickup and things but I don't feel I actually don't feel as
01:21:45
old as I as I am. say um I love I've been coaching Indy's um Prem team and I I love that you know
01:21:54
mom always said that coaching kept her young um and teaching kept her young kind of being in a school environment
01:22:01
and I think that like dealing with teenagers um does that. So I think yeah enjoy enjoy it while you can.
01:22:10
>> And I've got this um this photo here. This is the cover of the um the Women's
01:22:14
Weekly from 2010. Do you remember that? >> Yeah. Yeah. That was Last Baby.
01:22:19
>> Yeah. Yeah. That was controversial at the time, eh? It >> was really controversial. Yeah.
01:22:23
>> So um for anyone that's listening to this not watching it, it was um Demi
01:22:27
Moore did this uh cover for Vanity Fair when she was heavily pregnant. It's a
01:22:31
like a tasteful nude with a big baby bump. Um and you did a homage to that in the New Zealand Women's Weekly. Um it
01:22:38
says, "Benise many celebrates the joy of motherhood." Um yeah. Yeah. What are
01:22:42
your recollections of that? >> Uh, so there was lots of fallout. Um, I know my dad and brothers weren't like
01:22:51
that comfortable with it, >> like a conservative Samoan thing or just >> Yeah, I think just and because everyone
01:22:57
had an opinion on it. Um, but I mean it was my third baby. I was never going to uh, you know, in my mind I wasn't going
01:23:05
to have another one. Um and um and it was like celebrating, you know, being celebrating the joy and the blessing of
01:23:15
of life really. So um so why not? And um >> it's a beautiful photo. >> Yeah. Yeah.
01:23:21
>> Yeah. Are you proud of it? >> Yeah. Proud of it. Yeah. >> Do the the more years that go by like
01:23:25
I'm sure there was like maybe at the time like a sour taste in your mouth cuz
01:23:28
you know you don't want to let people down. You don't want your family to you
01:23:31
know it bums you out. Um, but >> we we had it on the wall in the hallway at the top of the stairs and I think we
01:23:38
took it down um cuz I think Jet was embarrassed when he brought friends around. It's like that's me, you know,
01:23:45
that's me in there. That's your mother. >> Yeah. So, what Yeah. In 2010, what did
01:23:51
Backlash look like then? This is like pre Facebook. I'm guessing there was like MySpace and Bibo and that's
01:23:57
probably it. >> Yeah. I don't even remember that. It was it was more general um talk but yeah it
01:24:03
didn't phase me like honestly people are entitled to have their opinion and it
01:24:10
kind of is just a reflection of their mindset >> um you know even now everyone comes from
01:24:16
their own perspective and their own view um and so um yeah I mean that's the
01:24:21
beauty of people right like you um everyone's totally different um but I just I think the one thing I remember
01:24:29
Solomon, my eldest, um at a like he he was a toddler, I think, and um he's holding my hand and I can't remember
01:24:37
what I said, but he said, "Mama," he said, "Never judge." And um and I think,
01:24:42
you know, like out of the mouth of babes, right? Like um you know, never judge like you know that that is
01:24:50
probably the downfall of people is that that whole judgment and um yeah, just accept people for who they are.
01:24:56
>> Wow. That's such a healthy space to be playing in. >> Um, yeah, it's only the last couple of
01:25:00
years that I've I've got to the point where I realize other people's opinion
01:25:03
of me is none of my business. >> Yeah. >> But it's um it's taken a long time to
01:25:08
get there. >> Yeah, it's hard. I mean, it is hard. you get quite and I know like like that I I
01:25:14
do this um personality testing um with lots of the leadership um teenage leadership programs that the pinnacle
01:25:21
program that I'm involved with and um and it's looking at you know how you are
01:25:27
and how you communicate and how you react to things and like um you know it kind of flows off me now but I guess
01:25:35
that's probably why I don't like you say do as many media things as I want like
01:25:39
it's keeping things in a world of social media, I like to stay quite private
01:25:44
>> um and um not put yourself out there for judgment, right? And so um whereas also,
01:25:49
you know, I know that say for Dion, it does affect him hugely. Um you know, he does worry a lot of what people think of
01:25:58
him. Um and but it's quite nice to be able to um you know, give your own thoughts and perspective to each other
01:26:07
as well. M >> he does. He wears his heart on his sleeve, doesn't he? >> He does. Yeah.
01:26:12
>> Bless. >> Yeah. >> All right. Dancing with the Stars. You're in the first season of Dancing
01:26:16
with the Stars, too. >> He does. Yeah. >> Yeah. Now, groundbreaking.
01:26:19
>> So, Dance with E. >> Groundbreaking. >> Groundbreaking. Oh, why do you say that
01:26:23
sarcastically? >> Um because I'm quite I feel quite lucky to have done the first show. Um but also
01:26:30
that there's no footage of me out there dancing. So, um >> is not there must be on YouTube. It's
01:26:35
got to be. >> There's nothing. There's nothing. It's great. Like actually um my net team this
01:26:40
year tried to find it and that to no avail >> because um yeah anyone that does a fir
01:26:46
any first season of a reality show it's sort of like a trailblazer like you you're going into the dark you don't
01:26:50
know what the expectation is like it's well you know if you get asked to go on
01:26:54
Dancing with the Stars now you can you know phone someone up that's been on a
01:26:57
previous season and find out what it's like but you had no sort of blueprint.
01:27:00
Who was in the first season? Uh Shane Cortez, >> right? Iron >> Norm Huitt.
01:27:06
>> Um >> did he win? Norm, didn't he? >> Norm. Yeah. Uh >> um Shad Bolt.
01:27:14
>> Oh, Tim. >> Yep. He So those three were above me, so I got fourth. Um Theresa Healey, um
01:27:22
Georgina Bayer, Nikki Watson. Yeah, she was she was first to to get voted out. >> Oh my god.
01:27:30
Oh my god. Some legendary names there. Iconic. >> Yeah. Yeah, it was. >> And it was Jason Gun the host.
01:27:36
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. The live band. >> Live band. And um and it was the hardest
01:27:42
thing I've ever done actually. Harder than I mean cuz it's something that um
01:27:47
you know it was I was not good at it. And um you know these limbs they're like
01:27:53
the hard to coordinate such extremities. Um so um and then when you're dancing
01:28:00
all day every day for um and and with that um you know driven by the fear of a live performance at the end is um
01:28:11
is is frightening. >> Yeah. Cuz you and I are about the same height. I reckon um I don't know. I I
01:28:17
think the taller you are you just you always look dang you know gangly and awkward when you
01:28:22
>> when you move. I don't know that. Yeah. On reflection, is it sort of like type
01:28:26
two fun? Like it was horrible at the time, but you look back and it was actually
01:28:28
>> I love dancing now. I really like enjoy um moving my body and um and yeah, music
01:28:37
and um and I do it was a great thing to have done and to learn the discipline of
01:28:43
um of Latin and um ballroom and yeah. Yeah, it was great. >> This has been a fun chat. Is is it fun
01:28:52
to reflect on all these? >> Yeah, it is. And I probably don't give the time to reflect um often on, you
01:29:00
know, what's gone before. Um >> is that a growth mindset thing? Cuz you're just always looking at what's
01:29:04
ahead. >> Yeah. Yeah. Eyes up. Um and I know I was chatting to Linda Vangana. Um, I often
01:29:11
call her in the car in my Hyundai on the way home and and um and she was saying,
01:29:18
"Well, Burns, you know, like it's up to us to shine the light." And um and yeah,
01:29:24
we um we were singing along together. Um and yeah, I think you know, you take it
01:29:29
upon yourself to to bring the positivity and bring the energy and and shine the light.
01:29:36
>> I've actually got Linda coming in next week for a podcast record as well.
01:29:39
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So when you say singing along like you she was on the phone and you were
01:29:42
actually singing. >> Oh, we were singing this little light of mine. I'm going to let it shine.
01:29:50
>> And laughing and um I mean you got to honestly laughter is is just the medicine, right?
01:29:56
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You mentioned um driving in your High before because you've been at High
01:30:01
for a long time now, right? >> Yeah. Almost 12 years. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. um in in a very uh
01:30:06
tough challenging role in in very tough challenging conditions. Um yeah. Is it people in culture or HR? Is it all the
01:30:13
same sort of thing? >> People in culture. >> So you you have to like like manage
01:30:16
people out of jobs and let people go and have >> like difficult conversations is what
01:30:20
you're getting paid to do. >> Difficult conversations and create a good culture to perform in. Um you know,
01:30:27
you you get the culture right and um and then the outcomes and the results will happen. Um, yeah. So, that's that's what
01:30:36
I work on daytoday. >> So, you a permanent box of tissues on your desk? >> Uh, yeah. Wow. Maybe I don't have any in
01:30:46
in my office at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, like a a job like that cuz I'm just I
01:30:53
don't know. I'm probably projecting here, but I think most most people like
01:30:56
actively avoid difficult conversations. I I had Sir Steve Hansen on the podcast and he called it um I think he had had a
01:31:04
percentage for it. I think he called it the 16 percenters. So it's 84% of the
01:31:07
conversations you have a nice you know um 16% of conversations have to be difficult ones. Um what's it like
01:31:14
driving to work in the morning knowing that you've got like a set of difficult
01:31:17
conversations coming up as part of your job? >> Well, the key really is that um to build
01:31:22
relationships before you have to have the difficult conversations. So, um, you know, if you get to know everyone that's
01:31:31
within your, you know, within your family or your staff, um, you know, and you have a a history of of, um, that
01:31:41
environment to have free flowing conversations, they're not as difficult as, um, ones where, you know, you you've
01:31:49
not dealt with someone on a one-to-one um, regularly. So the the key is that consistency
01:31:57
>> um will help you in times that you know in delivering tough messages. >> It's quite funny all the um all all the
01:32:07
the pieces of the bene story. So there's like um you know having a class load of
01:32:11
kids um captaining the silver ferns and now this and I suppose um it's all sort
01:32:17
of been like sharpening the axe and you growing as a person but [ __ ] you must have learned so much in this role over
01:32:22
the last 12 years. >> Yeah. Yeah. really and I think um you know that that being being firm but fair
01:32:30
um and so it is about um yeah it it's you do hone your skills and um and but the key is around like I'm
01:32:43
always learning um and so I I don't know I don't know the answers to everything
01:32:50
um but I think when you can connect with people um in in a vulnerable way and but
01:32:56
then be able to um you know set the goal and and um take everyone with you. That's the key to
01:33:04
leadership. Yeah. >> How do you personally measure success in life today? Professional and personal. I
01:33:11
mean like when you're a silver f it's easy, right? >> You win, you lose.
01:33:15
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's success or failure. Well, I for me success is um is creating good humans
01:33:23
with my three um children and um creating, you know, happy happy healthy contributing members
01:33:33
of society um and that they could be, you know, we're created allowing them to
01:33:39
be the best that they could be so that they can fulfill their potential. And so, not just my three. So that's kind of
01:33:46
been a bit of a mandate of mine is working. I love working with youth. Um I love kind of growing people, helping
01:33:54
them grow their potential and be better than they were >> yesterday. How how scary are you as a mom? Touch
01:34:01
with this never happens, but say one of the kids calls and they've like crashed
01:34:04
a car or they I don't know spend a night in a police cell. Like they do they call
01:34:10
you or Dion? How's the response going to be? >> Uh you scary? I imagine they'd call me,
01:34:15
but um um I think that um you know I I think that you want to keep the the channels of communication open. You
01:34:28
always want them to be able to to call you anytime. Um but on the odd occasion when the roar has been required, the
01:34:39
roar does come. The beer has been poked. >> Oh my god. >> But it's rare.
01:34:48
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's when you text you, text you, and then put your phone
01:34:52
on flight mode, give you 10 minutes to process. And >> um Yeah. When people look back on Benise
01:34:59
Mini and say 20 years from now, what do you hope they say about you? Not as an athlete, but as a human being,
01:35:04
[Music] >> I feel like you don't really care. >> Yeah. Well, just hope that they um they
01:35:11
believe that I've added value to this world. Yeah. >> And a perfect day off for you. What does
01:35:17
that look like? >> Uh curling up in the sun with a good book >> and some music, some tunes playing in
01:35:24
the background. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What sort of book? >> Uh I read everything. So I do love um
01:35:32
Yeah. I fiction and non-fiction, but um a good novel. >> Yeah. Yeah. I actually um we both Dion
01:35:40
and I love a tactile book. We different different um different genres but um but
01:35:46
then I've just encountered the the Kindle which um I've been tuning through
01:35:52
a few books on the Kindle and recommendations. Yeah, >> Kindle's convenient. It's not I'm the
01:35:58
same though. I love I love an old school book. >> Yeah, love paper and and we have a big
01:36:02
bookshelf of our books. We love reading. >> What's the main genre? sports
01:36:07
biographies. >> Do you have do you have many confessions in there? >> Many confessions is in there. Um we
01:36:13
don't have like we've got some sport Dion's coded them. He's got his um
01:36:19
>> like color coded or alphabetical or >> he's got his um he's got his um what do
01:36:24
you call it? Where is he's a separate book with everything that's on our
01:36:30
bookshelf and >> Oh, like a catalog. >> A catalog. That's exactly what that is.
01:36:35
How many books have you got? They require a catalog. >> He's got first edition New Zealand
01:36:40
history books up there and some beautiful um Yeah, some beautiful books. Yeah. >> Wow.
01:36:46
>> What's your what's your inner critic in a voice like? Are you quite kind to
01:36:50
yourself or are you always sort of like pushing yourself to do more or be better?
01:36:54
>> Um you got to be kind to yourself. You've got to you've got to have a um a
01:36:59
you know that little voice that talks to yourself is so important. Um >> yeah. So just you know that that telling
01:37:06
yourself you can do it and um you know that's the only way you can you can take
01:37:10
risks take calculated risk risks but um just to give yourself that energy to get
01:37:16
up and go. Yeah. >> Have you always been like that? >> Yeah I think I have. Yeah. Mhm.
01:37:21
>> What are you most afraid of? >> Most afraid of uh I don't love spiders.
01:37:30
>> Well that's good. anyone that um I asked that question to a lot of guests and
01:37:34
anyone that's got an answer like um spiders or deep water or whatever I I think I think that's good
01:37:39
>> deep water the you know the things that you can avoid >> largely what about flaws what are your
01:37:48
biggest flaws >> uh >> what are you still working on as a person >> I can be I'm known as being a bit of a
01:37:55
dreamer um so yeah that is >> how's that a flaw >> uh Yeah, it can be if you are not a
01:38:03
dreamer. Yeah, I mean you a dreamer can drift along in life. So um yeah and so I
01:38:09
think that that that's something that that Dion um you know evens me up in that space.
01:38:15
>> Yeah. >> What about future goals? Where do you see yourself at? Let's say 60. I suppose
01:38:19
60 is the next big milestone, right? >> It's not that far. Um >> what what are you now? 50.
01:38:24
>> 50. >> Oh, come. It's a whole decade away. >> Uh we we will be back at 60. um
01:38:31
hopefully having some adventures and I love traveling, love traveling the world. Um love being immersed in
01:38:37
different cultures and um and learning languages obviously as a languages teacher. Um so I would love to learn a
01:38:43
few more languages and um but I also am enjoying um you know honing new skills, gardening, um those sorts of things. So
01:38:52
yeah, lots to do. There's lots to enjoy in life. Um, and if you if your kids or
01:38:57
Dion were here, what three words would you like them to use to describe you? >> Um, what three words would they use? Um,
01:39:08
I think, you know, fun. Um, I think considered and, um, loving. M >> yeah,
01:39:24
>> it's a a great collection of words. Yeah. And are you proud of yourself?
01:39:29
>> Yeah, I am proud of myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> This has been fun. It was very very like
01:39:36
it's not even 9:00 and we've finished the podcast. What am I going to do with
01:39:39
the rest of the day? >> Well, that's it. >> Yeah. >> The whole day is ahead. It's brilliant.
01:39:43
It's brilliant. >> Win the morning, win the day. >> Yeah. Hey, this has been really, really
01:39:48
enjoyable. Thank you so much for Yeah. I know this is a big call for you. >> Yeah.
01:39:53
>> As as in you don't you don't go out of your way to, you know, to seek any sort
01:39:57
of limelight. Um you'd probably rather not be doing this than be doing this. So
01:40:01
I really appreciate it. >> Yeah. Thanks. >> That's been cool. Thanks so much,
01:40:04
Benise. You're a great New Zealander. >> Thank you.