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To be like a peak performer, do you need a level of obsession? >> I've never met an athlete who's at the
00:00:04
top of their game, who's not somewhat obsessed, and it's it's their life. It's
00:00:08
their livelihood. Is there a such thing as a healthy obsession? I don't know.
00:00:10
You could give two athletes the same stimulus and one responds differently to another. Really want to be good at
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sport. You have to choose your parents wisely. The best thing we can do is teach the athletes to be world class at
00:00:20
things that require no talent. Going to bed on time, not resetting your alarm, getting up on time, doing your
00:00:25
stretches. If you want to do well in anything in life, you can probably focus on three things. But if you do four,
00:00:30
you're not going to do well at anything. You always go for ups and downs. That
00:00:32
kind of mindset of not thinking it's over until it's over. The best ones will
00:00:36
look in the mirror. The worst ones will look through the window and then blame other people. You can always do a little
00:00:40
bit more than you realize. Behave like your son is watching. I wouldn't want to
00:00:42
be anyone else other than me. It's my biggest achievement is having healthy family.
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>> What is one word that defines world class athletes? >> Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is
00:00:55
the center of performance. Whenever there's a top performance in New Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:01:00
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that for days. That's the boys who got the
00:01:04
hollow one in To. He did it again. Hey Finn, how's the performance going? >> Top tier.
00:01:11
>> Nice. This is our generate room. In here, you'll find our top performers
00:01:14
helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver investments. Get in here, Finn. >> Maximize. Generate.
00:01:20
>> Putting performance first. >> Dr. Dan PL, welcome to my podcast. >> Not a pleasure to be here. It really is.
00:01:26
It's great. >> I think the best way to start is um by asking who is Dr. Dan PL.
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>> Oh, well, yeah. Straight off the bat, I guess, um first and foremost, I'm a dad
00:01:37
uh dad of two, 8-year-old and six-year-old and a husband of as well and um I guess entrepreneur,
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businessman, but mainly in the sports area. Um sports scientist and bit of an athlete. So like to partake myself in
00:01:55
Iron Man and well used to Iron Man and now getting into some other other things. So yeah,
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>> other things >> like Hy Rocks. Yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> But I've worked with you know I've been
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involved in in in like sports since I was 9 years old and >> worked with various Olympic athletes
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around New Zealand. Um America's Cup Emirates Team New Zealand. >> Pretty pretty diverse.
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>> Yeah. It was the Eric Murray, who's one of New Zealand's greatest Olympians of
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all time, who messaged me and said, "Oh, you should get Dr. Dan on your podcast."
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>> Um, and I I wasn't aware of uh who you were or much about you until that point.
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Um, but yeah, so let's compare your answer about who Dr. Dan PL is compared to AI.
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>> Okay, this is going to be interesting. >> Dr. Yeah, see what you think about this.
00:02:39
Um, Dr. Dan PL is one of the most influential figures in modern endurance sport, especially in triathlon,
00:02:46
exercise, physiology, and high performance coaching. He sits at a rare intersection. Worldclass athlete plus
00:02:53
scientist plus coach plus systems thinker. >> There you go. Maybe I should have said
00:02:58
that. >> It's not bad. >> It's not bad. Not bad. Yeah, he's much
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much better than me. So yeah, we'll get into um you've worked with something
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like um 30 like world champions, Olympians, gold medalists >> um including Yeah. Eric Murray and Dame
00:03:14
Lisa Carrington. >> Yeah. >> Um Eric Murray uh when I asked him about
00:03:18
you, he said, um Dr. Dan PL created some hellish sessions just to try and break me.
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>> Yeah, I never did that. Not quite. I tried my best. >> And Dame Lisa, uh when I told her you're
00:03:31
coming on the podcast and did she have any tea? she could spill. She said, "Hey, Dom, this will be a great chat.
00:03:36
Ask him how his chin-ups are going these days." >> What is What's the in joke?
00:03:41
>> It's a good question. Yeah. Well, like for the uh as a bit of background,
00:03:45
obviously, I did a lot of triathlon and specifically iron man trifling when I was through for throughout most of my
00:03:51
career and I wasn't that physically strong, but I was pretty good at pretty good at Iron Man trifling and you to the
00:03:56
point where I could barely do a chin-up. So, um, she thought that was hilarious and obviously still does, but I've I've
00:04:02
managed to change that around a little bit in more recent years. >> Oh, cuz you'd need to for high rocks.
00:04:06
>> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But I was I mean, I've gone from back when I was doing
00:04:10
Iron Man, I was 73 74 kilos and I'm now 82 83 kilos. So, >> and how many can she do?
00:04:17
>> Uh, I wouldn't even be able to count. I mean, she'd need weight to stop her. I
00:04:20
think loads. >> Yeah. She she she went on to say um uh pick his brains on training because he's
00:04:27
incredibly knowledgeable in that space. Also, I always like to see what gadgets he's using because he's always finding
00:04:32
new ways to recover and monitor training. Um yeah, how closely did you did you work with her and her coach
00:04:39
Gordon Walker? >> Well, well, I mean, yeah, I would say I worked close more closely with Gordy
00:04:43
than I did with with Lisa. I mean, I've known Gordy for since forever and um
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yeah and I I guess cuz before before 2016 I was with the rowing in New Zealand rowing. So 2012 uh London Rio
00:04:56
and then I kind of switched and then I started helping and being um helping Gordi more cuz really as a as an
00:05:03
exercise physiologist you you're more talking with the coaches rather than the
00:05:08
athletes. you're kind of influencing how the athletes you're monitoring the
00:05:11
athletes, looking at how they're recovering, look at how the training is. Um, but a lot of it a lot of it would be
00:05:16
with Gordy and you know Gordi's also a good friend of mine. So half of it was
00:05:20
we just go out on bike rides and talk about training and have some great ideas and um I think that was some where the
00:05:27
best ideas come from often. >> Yeah, Lisa Carrington the goat when it comes to Olympians in New Zealand. like
00:05:33
it's hard to imagine there's going to be >> anyone in my lifetime that's going to
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beat what she's done. What's what sets her apart? I mean, you got high performers or the top 5% and she's at
00:05:43
the absolute peak of that. What makes what makes her so much better than anyone else from your observations?
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>> Well, as I always tell most people who want to be good at sport is that you
00:05:50
have to choose your parents wisely. I mean I mean there's unfortunately there
00:05:55
is a lot of genetics involved in in how good you are as as an athlete, but I think with someone like Lisa is that
00:06:01
what what I always see is um the way they train, they always train with a lot of intent. So what I mean by that is
00:06:07
it's not necessarily they're always training as hard as they possibly can.
00:06:10
But if if Gordi would say this is a endurancebased paddle, it would be an endurancebased paddle. If it's a
00:06:16
threshold based paddle, you know, high intensity, she she would make sure it's
00:06:20
exactly as prescribed. But also, I mean, in attention to detail. So, always looking at those smaller parts that make
00:06:28
the bigger picture. So, um, you know, like the going to bed on time, what's happening with the technology, whether
00:06:33
the boat's right, the nutrition, all those small little details. I've always
00:06:37
really finely tuned, you know, and I often think about Eric and Hamish in this regard.
00:06:43
>> Obviously, they were the the best pairs probably the world's ever seen. Yeah.
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>> And those two as a pair brought those qualities together because I wouldn't
00:06:51
say Eric is that dialed in when it comes to the details, you know, but Hamish was. So, you know, and I would say that
00:06:59
um Hamish wasn't necessarily that great of his intent with training, but Eric
00:07:04
was. And those two together kind of brought the two that perfect match. And obviously physological specimens as
00:07:09
well. Um but yeah, I think those those are those are the main attributes. And I was actually when I was riding last week
00:07:17
with Gordy, he says as a as a coach, the best thing we can do is teach the athletes to be world class at things
00:07:25
that require no talent. And I think you know all those athletes are really good at that as well which is the simple
00:07:31
things which is >> going to bed on time, not resetting your alarm, >> getting up on time, doing your
00:07:37
stretches, doing your core work, doing those small things all around the training that make end up making the
00:07:43
bigger the bigger picture. >> Yeah. And speaking of that, um Dame Lisa sent me that message at 20 to 6 this
00:07:49
morning. >> Well, there you go. She was probably ready to go for a >> Yeah, it's it's crazy that she's still
00:07:53
got the drive and discipline to do it after achieving so much. like there's no
00:07:56
there there's nothing else for her to prove. >> It is. And and I think I often think
00:07:59
about that and I think it always with lots of those athletes, it's it's just
00:08:04
so intrinsically motivated. It's about them being better >> for themselves and trying to achieve
00:08:10
what they can achieve. And I don't even necessarily think they're that that into
00:08:14
like them. Well, obviously the medals are important, but I think it's all about that personal improvement and
00:08:18
continuously getting, you know, knowing that they can do a little bit more and get better. And I think that's what we
00:08:24
often see in those types of individuals. >> Yeah. So inspiring. And um yeah, Gordon
00:08:28
Walker, what what's what's he doing now? Cuz he finished up with um Dame Lisa
00:08:32
towards the end of uh 2025. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, he'll have to you have to get him on and he can talk to
00:08:37
you a bit more about that. But um yeah, he he's still he's still going at the
00:08:41
moment. I don't think he's fully finished. I think it's in that crossover
00:08:44
period, but I'm not. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'll have to get him on. Inspiring
00:08:48
guy. Yeah. He's done so much. It's one of one of, you know, those incredible
00:08:52
sporting partnerships. >> Yeah. And he's a he's been a great mentor to me as well. I've learned so
00:08:57
much on the um on the coaching realm. And you know, some of the chats that we have when we go out on our rides,
00:09:03
they're they're amazing, you know, and you learn so much. So, and I mean I
00:09:07
think I was when we were out riding last week. So, we go to Puh Hoy and we do like a little gravel loop on our bikes
00:09:12
and um and I moved to New Zealand in 2010 and that was the same basically to come and do a PhD. So, I got a P PhD
00:09:21
scholarship with um High Performance Sport New Zealand to do a PhD and at the same time he'd just taken over that
00:09:28
kayak job. So yeah, long time ago we've both been both been in the in the um in
00:09:33
the realm >> of sports performance. >> And and Eric Murray, what's he talking
00:09:38
about when he says Dr. Dan created some hellish sessions just to try and break me? What is a hellish session?
00:09:44
>> Well, so when it was when it was more like in the his 2016 campaign, I was I
00:09:49
was kind of in control of his URG sessions a lot. So we did we did some pretty brutal brutal stuff on the URG. I
00:09:56
mean one that springs to mind was used to do a session which was it sounds easy but it was six by 1 minute with 6
00:10:02
minutes recovery and it was max you know we get be seeing lactic acid levels of in the 20s after it like really brutal
00:10:10
stuff. Um and also one time and to this day it's probably one of the most impressive feats I've seen from an
00:10:16
athlete. He did um four 2ks in under six minutes back to back with four minutes recovery. I mean, if if anyone knows
00:10:23
anything about rowing, most people would like a great rower would give their bottom, you know, give their high legs
00:10:30
to break six minutes once, you know, he did it three he did it four times in one
00:10:34
session. >> Most mortals would be vomiting, right? >> Yeah. Well, I couldn't do it for one and
00:10:39
most most rowers can't do it for one. So, um but yeah, he's um we had some
00:10:43
real big sessions on the eggs, which was which is great because in that like during that time, Hamish would like
00:10:49
cycling and Eric didn't really like cycling. So sometimes Hamish would go out and do a bit of riding and Eric
00:10:54
could come in and do some more um on the egg. I mean Hamish did stuff on the egg
00:10:58
as well, but um yeah, there was uh we definitely got there's no point hanging
00:11:04
around if you're on the egg. We made we had some pretty spicy sessions. So >> Wow.
00:11:07
>> And did you work very closely with their coach Dick Tonx? >> Not so so not so much with Dick. I mean
00:11:15
because in that early stage I'd only really just come in. So I came into rowing New Zealand at the end of 2011.
00:11:21
So it was just before the Olympics. So I I didn't really have that much to do
00:11:25
with him, but after 2012 they moved over to Donaldson and that's when I became a
00:11:29
little bit more more involved. >> Interesting guy. I'm sure you've heard
00:11:32
some stories about him. >> Yeah, definitely. >> Um hey, this is going to be a great
00:11:36
chat. 10 minutes in and we've already dropped some um heavyweight names. It's
00:11:40
been awesome. Um just one quick random question. So, um, my podcast is sponsored by the Generate Kiwi Saver
00:11:46
scheme, who also, uh, sponsor Dame Lisa Carrington. Um, they're obsessed with
00:11:51
performance. So, what is something in your life that you've obsessed over getting better at and why did it matter
00:11:56
so much to you? >> The, um, cuz that I saw the advert to that is it's actually an AUT lab, isn't
00:12:02
it? That's in That's in That's in our lab. Yeah, that's >> rebranded as the generate performance. I
00:12:08
recognize that looks surprisingly familiar. Um but but what things have I obsessed over? Um I mean I think I've
00:12:18
obsessed over training generally like the adaptation. I've always been very obsessed by why people some people you
00:12:27
could give an athlete two athletes the same stimulus and one responds differently to another. And I think I
00:12:32
mean that was kind of what most of my research was in in terms of my PhD. So, um, that's something that I've always
00:12:38
been quite obsessed with from a very from a very early age. >> And what's personally, what's your
00:12:44
relationship like with the word obsession? Because I asked that question to some podcast get some podcast guests
00:12:48
feel uncomfortable with that question because they say the the word obsessed or obsession has some negative
00:12:54
connotations. But from your experience, like to be to be like a peak performer, do you need a level of obsession?
00:13:02
>> Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I I don't think I've ever met a an epic performer who's
00:13:07
not somewhat obsessed with their pursuit of what they're trying to get to. >> Um I I really don't think it's possible,
00:13:14
but I I mean it's obsessions is I mean is there such thing as a healthy obsession? I don't know. Maybe.
00:13:21
>> So, but I would like to think it's a healthier obsession. But like me, I do think that often you
00:13:28
those those top performers can somewhat switch off when it when when they need to and then it's on and it's off. You
00:13:33
know, they really but there's always in the bid in the back of the mind where
00:13:36
you always have to be on. And for an elite performer, unfortunately, that is the way that is the life that
00:13:42
they lead. And that's because it comes down to nutrition, it comes down to sleep, it comes down to the training.
00:13:47
So, you can somewhat never be off ever really >> and it's quite hard. >> Yeah. I suppose it's kind of a selfish
00:13:54
pursuit, but it's only for a a snapshot of your life, really, isn't it? Like a
00:13:56
period. >> Yeah, exactly. I mean, you got >> Unless you're like you and you're still
00:13:59
going in your middle age. >> Yeah. I'm not I'm not I'm not a peak
00:14:02
performer anymore, but um the Yeah, I think that that level of obsession is and it is for that period of time for
00:14:09
sure. I mean, it's but it is definitely required. And I don't I've never met an
00:14:14
athlete who's at the top of their game, who's not somewhat obsessed, and it's
00:14:18
it's their life, it's their livelihood, and it's all they all they know. But uh
00:14:22
but I don't think they reg change it for any reason. It's just part of what they
00:14:27
do, right? >> Yeah. Part of their DNA. >> Yeah. And they and they enjoy it and and
00:14:31
they live it. So, >> and your new um uh maybe not an obsession, but um a a bizarre hobby is
00:14:37
Hyrox, which you mentioned before. So, for the the uninitiated, what is what is Hyrox? How can you describe it?
00:14:43
>> Yeah. So, Hyrox is I mean, I guess people do liken it to CrossFit, but it's
00:14:48
not like CrossFit at all. Um it's a more endurancebased um sport with exercise
00:14:54
stations. So it involves 1 km runs followed by an exercise station. So it'll be a 1 km run and then a ski 1 km
00:15:02
run then 50 m of sled push 1 km run um sled pull and then basically 1 km run burpee broad jumps
00:15:10
rowing farmer's carry walking lunges and then and then wall balls. Yeah. >> Yeah. Wool balls. Um, yeah.
00:15:19
>> Explain what that is. It's a medicine medicine ball. >> Yeah, it's like it's not um Yeah, it's
00:15:23
called a wall ball. So, the med it's slightly different to a medicine ball. So, it's it's a little bit bigger, but
00:15:27
they're they're of particular weight. So, you have different weights and
00:15:31
there's different weights in high rocks. So, you have four four kilos for the
00:15:35
open women, six um I think it's 4 kilos. Yeah. And then there's six kilos for the
00:15:42
open men and pro women. And then the pro men have a 9 kilo ball and you've got to
00:15:47
throw that ball up to a target that's 300 meters above the ground 100 times,
00:15:51
but it has to be from you have to do a full squat each time. So your hip has to go below your knee angle every every
00:15:58
time you go down and then you have to throw it up and it's and it's the last
00:16:01
event and it's really hard. I can especially with 9 kilos. I can I can assure you of that espec es especially
00:16:07
someone who's done triathlon all their life and um >> has limited mobility in the upper
00:16:13
thoracic and and things like that but it's uh >> yeah it's good I mean I did triathlon
00:16:18
since I was nine and I kind of started off in like the Olympic programs and then I moved into more of the longer
00:16:25
distance but it's just very very timeconuming and so in 2022 I I stopped competing and I took And then then I
00:16:35
took then sort of what now and I kind of did almost bodybuilding for a little bit
00:16:38
and you know just got wanted to get bigger and stronger. But I I really missed that endurance aspect and then
00:16:44
and hires it gave this nice blend of strength and endurance and it also it took out those really long training days
00:16:53
because if you're doing an Iron Man you've got to do like sometimes sometimes if you're training properly
00:16:58
you can be gone at 6:00 in the morning and get back at 1:00 in the afternoon. you know, 5 hour rides, 1 hour run. It's
00:17:05
just really long when you got a had a young family. So, it's especially now as
00:17:09
they get older and there's a lot of activities, it's becomes a little bit
00:17:12
easier to do something that's a bit shorter. >> Yeah, Iron Man's crazy. I've always been
00:17:16
impressed with um you know, the Cameron Browns of the world. Um but I'm even
00:17:20
more impressed, I think, by people that have, you know, jobs and families and still manage to to get it done outside
00:17:27
of the regular commitments. And and more than that is that typically all these all the ones who have got jobs, they're
00:17:32
not small jobs. Lots of the lots of the athletes doing IMAS are all CEOs or they
00:17:37
got really big important jobs and they still managed to have a family and it's
00:17:41
quite impressive. >> Yeah. >> So, um do you wear a shirt when you do
00:17:44
high rocks? No, >> of course not. >> I've seen um cuz I first heard about it
00:17:50
maybe a year ago, 18 months ago. So, I looked I saw some videos on Tik Tok and it looked like an audition for Love
00:17:54
Island or something. just buff people just running around exercising with their shirts off.
00:17:59
>> Yeah. I'm not sure what the I'm not sure what the vibe is with the with the shirt
00:18:02
off, but I've got to be part of the crowd. So, >> can can anyone do it? Like, so I I run
00:18:08
marathons and you see a lot of people at at the start line of a marathon and it's
00:18:11
super inspiring. Um there's a lot of people that maybe a year earlier were on
00:18:14
the couch and now they're having a crack at running 42 km. The the barrier for
00:18:18
entry for High Rock seems a little bit tougher to me. >> No, I don't think so. I think it's quite
00:18:22
low. I mean the the whole thing around the the high rocks is that the movements are quite simple. The the unlike
00:18:30
CrossFit for example, it has very complex movements. Some like Olympic lifts and I can't do those and most
00:18:35
people can't. So I think the barrier to entry is quite low because as long as
00:18:38
you can learn some of the simple simple movements and they are reasonably simple
00:18:41
pushing a sled, pulling a sled. >> I mean there's even lots of the parents
00:18:47
at my kids schools are doing hierros. You know I'll go there and they'll start
00:18:50
talking to me about hierros. I can't say that happened that much when I did Iron
00:18:53
Man. There weren't many people doing an Iron Man at the school, but there's, you
00:18:56
know, at least three or four or five people who I know are interested in highlights. I think it's um I think it
00:19:02
is quite easy. >> Oh, that's interesting. Popular. >> Yeah, maybe it's my own internal
00:19:06
perception and I just feel intimidated because you got all these gloriously hot people half.
00:19:11
>> I think it's anticipated that 1.6 6 million people will do high rocks 2026
00:19:17
>> compared to like 300,000 people will do probably long course triathlon.
00:19:21
>> What do you reckon? Is it going to last? Is it going to be a fed? >> You would have seen so many things come
00:19:26
and go, right? >> Yeah. Who knows? I mean they they are having a big push because they want to
00:19:30
get into the 2032 Olympics. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So if that happens it's a whole
00:19:35
different story. Obviously it becomes a federation becomes a different sport. It
00:19:38
won't be called hier rocks, but if that happens, then it's it will stick around
00:19:42
and then you'll get um you'll see the standard really jump up because you'll
00:19:47
get some really handy. >> It's I mean the standard's already jumped quite high because it's just been
00:19:51
so popular, but I think it'll get even more popular and then you'll see the
00:19:55
standard jump even higher. So, >> well, if they can make break dancing an Olympic sport.
00:19:59
>> Yeah, exactly. And I heard there some kind of ninja warrior was going to be in
00:20:03
LA Olympics. So, >> yeah, who knows? Who knows? And I think like for 20 2032 which will be in
00:20:09
Brisbane, it's a very popular hybrid that kind of hybrid functional fitness is very popular with Australians. So
00:20:16
>> I think it does stand a reasonable chance. So >> how do you feel about aging? You you're
00:20:21
considered a veteran now, are >> you? >> Yeah. How do you feel about aging in
00:20:25
terms of um you know your performance? Like are you are you seeing your you know your times and your efforts
00:20:30
decrease or not yet? >> Not yet. Not yet. Yeah. >> Will you be okay with that when that
00:20:34
happens? No, I don't think anyone would be >> I mean I think it's just something
00:20:39
that's something you have to accept, isn't it? I mean, but fortunately, I
00:20:41
haven't seen that >> yet. But Ic >> it's not um Yeah. I mean, no one wants that to
00:20:48
happen. I mean, my my dad's like um my dad's 73 and he's as fit as a fiddle.
00:20:53
Like he'll ride 100k on his bike and no motor obviously. He will not he will not
00:20:58
take a battery on his bike. He's very stubborn. But um but like two two years
00:21:03
ago um was it two years ago we all went to the Italian Alps and he he cycled over the Stelvio. Have you heard the
00:21:10
Stelvio climb? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So he cycled over the Selvio down the other side and back over it at 71.
00:21:14
>> Wow. >> With no no aid. So you know I think I really believe like use it or lose it.
00:21:21
>> Yeah. 100%. >> Yeah. If you if you the moment you stop then you it all becomes worse. And and
00:21:27
you know, part of my reason for shifting from Iron Man to to high rocks was because of aging because I didn't I
00:21:35
didn't I don't feel that Iron Man's a great sport to do as you get really as
00:21:40
you get as you age. I think having that a bit more muscle muscle mass, a bit more size, a bit more strength, and that
00:21:46
aerobic fitness is is kind of the perfect combination of healthy aging, you know, high V2 max, good muscle size,
00:21:54
good strength, and I felt that was quite important. So it it was it really was a
00:21:57
bit of a driving factor behind the change anyway because I'm I am very conscious about it. So um yeah.
00:22:03
>> Oh same here. I I've become mild I'm 53 now so I've become mildly obsessed with
00:22:08
it and I read the Dr. Peter Artier book outlive which is about basically sort of
00:22:12
reverse engineering aging and um >> yeah I'm huge on it now. >> The five horsemen.
00:22:16
>> Yeah actually um my mom is similar to your dad like she's she's 74 75. I took
00:22:22
her to Paris last year. We ran the marathon with her. Um, I was pacing her through it at hour. I was like, "Hey,
00:22:28
mom, we're going to need to, you know, drop the walk brakes if you want to break 5 hours." And she was like, "Oh,
00:22:33
if I can't break 5 hours, I'm going to give up. It's humiliating."
00:22:37
>> I'm like, "Look, you're in your mid70s. You're still running a [ __ ]
00:22:40
marathon." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. When the World Championships
00:22:43
was in Talpo, the World 70.3 Championships was in Talpo last year and my dad did that. Yeah. I've got a great
00:22:49
video cuz I had my son on the front of the bike and we're, you know, so he's
00:22:53
riding along. We're going along the course of my dad's riding. My son goes
00:22:56
to me. He goes, "Granddad, granddad." I made granddad's like, he goes,
00:22:59
"Granddad." And he goes, "Why is everyone going past you?" >> Poor kids. Um, yeah. So, when was you
00:23:09
did the Iron Man, you got the age group uh world record? Um, yeah. What year was
00:23:13
this? 2022. >> Yeah, that was 2022 for the the fastest time. And then the age group record for
00:23:20
Kona was in 2018, which so the one that 2022 one's been broken since. Many I
00:23:25
think a few people have broken it since, but the 2018 one still stands. >> So you were the first ever amateur to
00:23:31
break 8 hours in an iron man, which is incredible. So for anyone that doesn't
00:23:35
know, an iron man is what? >> Uh >> 3.8 swim. >> 3.8 swim, 180k bike, and a marathon run.
00:23:42
>> Yeah. It's a big shift. >> So the swim is about an hour for you.
00:23:46
>> Yeah. Cuz that's that's your it's your week discipline. >> Yeah. It's about 50 minutes to 50
00:23:50
minutes is what it takes me. >> And then then on on the bike you're doing like 40 km an hour.
00:23:54
>> Y >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you get off the bike and you're running a marathon
00:23:57
in >> 245 to 250 was my best. Yeah. So I think my best was like >> 4 430 is 40 km an hour. My best is a 420
00:24:06
on the bike. >> Yeah. >> Incredible. And that marathon is um I I spent like maybe 5 years like dedicated
00:24:14
training in order to break three hours. I did a 257 and you were routinely doing
00:24:18
that after the big swim in the big bike. >> Yeah. It's funny. I I was never I was as
00:24:23
I was saying off air before I was I wasn't that I'm never I wasn't that
00:24:26
great at running but for some reason the Iron Man running just clicked with me and I was much I was much better. Like
00:24:33
when I did Olympic distance my running was always my weakest but I switched to Iron Man and it became my strength. It's
00:24:39
a much better much better position to be in. I feel like now I always had this when I did Iron Man, I was always like a
00:24:45
little bit worse on the swim. I wasn't a bad swimmer. It was probably my worst,
00:24:48
but I could always depend on myself on the run to pick off some places. Whereas now when I do high rocks, I'm get to the
00:24:55
wall balls and I'm thinking, "Oh my god, this now people can't run field."
00:25:00
But it's just um doing that for eight hours. Uh you're just going you're going
00:25:04
balls to the wall for eight hours, aren't you? You're not [ __ ] around at
00:25:07
all. You're not you'll be surprised that you because you can't you can't go balls
00:25:10
to the wall for eight hours. You have to I mean that's the thing you have to be
00:25:14
able to pace yourself and you have to go at the correct intensity. So it's surprisingly not that difficult until
00:25:20
the end. So like an iron man it actually feels really easy until about you know 20 15 you know 15 20k to go on the run.
00:25:29
it starts getting that's when it starts getting really hard. But you never you're never really at that higher
00:25:35
intensity. You know, you kind of always having to because it's a very long days.
00:25:39
You know, you're eating, you're taking your fuel in, you're trying to keep your
00:25:42
intensity back. I'll be I would sit on a bike at about 130 to 140 heart rate, for
00:25:48
example, and my, you know, my max heart rate's 170 175. So, I was always, but
00:25:54
you just become very efficient and very aerobically fit. So you can even at 130 heart heart rate I could produce you
00:26:00
know 270 watts on the bike you know so that's would be equivalent of me going
00:26:05
40 km an hour. So it's all about efficiency and doing things um you know I always say iron man is not about going
00:26:12
fast it's about doing things as easily as you possibly can. So you got to go
00:26:15
fast. You got to fast but easily. That's that's the trick. >> That makes that makes no sense. Like for
00:26:21
anyone that's that's got a bike that's got a speedo on 40ks an hour is is
00:26:24
gunning it. And then um to do you like 4minute or sub4minute ks for a marathon after doing all that other stuff. It's
00:26:32
flying like it's um you you're downplaying it. You're making it sound
00:26:36
very very easy and a >> I mean it's not it's not No, it's not it's definitely not easy. But I've done
00:26:41
I did triathon since I was nine as well. So I had a lot of training experience and a lot of training age. And
00:26:48
triathlon is one of those sports that um it's very trainable. >> If you do the right, if you do the years
00:26:55
and you do the consistency and you train, >> you'll you'll get there eventually.
00:27:01
>> Yeah. I think I always have I always say that most athletes that overestimate
00:27:04
what they can do in the short term and underestimate what they can do in the long term.
00:27:08
>> And just by being just by training consistently, you you can you can do
00:27:13
some pretty amazing things. >> It's funny. That's actually a Steve Jobs
00:27:16
quote. Steve Jobs from Apple. Not talking about sport, but uh the quote is something like most people um
00:27:20
overestimate what they can do in a year and underestimate what they can do in 10.
00:27:24
>> Yeah. It's the same for sport. Same in training. >> Yeah. >> Another one of the athletes. Oh. Oh, you
00:27:30
mentioned at the start um the high performers, you know, choose your parents wisely. Yeah. Have you got good
00:27:34
jeans? Was your dad competitive? >> My dad was competitive. Yeah. He wasn't
00:27:38
brilliant, but he was a he was an athlete. So there's a bit of a theory like epigenetics that you you kind of
00:27:43
pass on the training that you do goes into your children. And so I'm hoping that my son's going to be a bit of a
00:27:48
weapon, you know, cuz if my dad goes into me, then I train and then go to him and maybe and maybe my daughter as well.
00:27:53
We'll see. She's not showing the signs of being that competitive yet, but my
00:27:56
son's pretty competitive. >> How will you be devastated if your kids choose to be academics?
00:28:02
>> No. I'm an academic, so true, true, true. No, non-sporty academics.
00:28:08
>> No, no. They'll be what they'll be, won't they? >> Um, hey, another um athlete you've
00:28:12
trained that um I mean Iron Man fans listening to this will know this name, but others may not. Chelsea Sedara.
00:28:18
>> Yes. >> Who won um an Iron Man in Coner in 2022. First American, I think, to do so in
00:28:23
like 25 years. And that was 18 months after having a baby. >> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. So, how did that work? Anyone
00:28:30
that's listening to this or watching this that has, you know, like a baby or
00:28:33
a toddler in the house, they'll wonder how this is even possible. like how did
00:28:37
that training cycle work? So, she obviously she was obviously good and maybe had muscle memory when you started
00:28:42
training with her. >> Yeah, she did. She she's from a very strong running background. Um, and she
00:28:46
done she started doing triathlon and she obviously was pretty good at triathlon straight away. I think she came fifth in
00:28:52
the world half iron man champs that year and she came to me looking for a new coach when she was two weeks pregnant.
00:28:59
So, um, so obviously we had to go through the whole having the baby and then the return. But honestly,
00:29:05
>> oh, so you coached her through her pregnancy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
00:29:09
>> How how did that look in terms of the log you give her or did she sort of
00:29:14
>> did tell you what she was capable of in terms of >> Yeah. It was it very it kind of merged
00:29:18
into quite seamlessly into at the start I was giving her quite good a guided regimented program and she would follow
00:29:28
that but as time went on you know she would have to miss she had a lot of morning sickness so we'd communicate
00:29:33
we'd swap things around and we get through that sort of sort of um stages but then eventually obviously she got
00:29:40
bigger and bigger and closer to giving birth she she started doing you know just what she can which might be walking
00:29:45
a bit of swimming and then and then slowly um came back came back basically. >> So,
00:29:51
>> how much fitness did she lose? >> Um not not so much. Not I mean we not
00:29:58
not I mean how much fitness is he using the actual terms of trying to put some statistics around it. I couldn't really
00:30:04
say but but it didn't take her that long to be competitive again. you know, 3
00:30:08
months later she was at the start line of a reason a reasonably big race and then it was a year later that she that
00:30:14
she then won a Kona for the first time. So I mean that was a it was a bit of bit
00:30:18
of a surprise to both of us to be honest >> really. >> Yeah. We did we didn't expect it. I
00:30:22
don't think anyone expected it. >> So and so um once once the baby's been
00:30:27
born I suppose that's when the real training sort of starts again to prepare
00:30:30
for this event. How like how I mean how does that look in real terms in terms of
00:30:35
you know sleep deprivation um you know breastfeeding? >> Yeah. Well tiredness.
00:30:41
>> Yeah. I mean it was uh we had to do it in a very slow gradual process and and
00:30:46
eventually she was having a little bit of trouble with breastfeeding as well. So she she actually she had to she was
00:30:51
actually forced to stop. So um but you know then and then my husband's obviously highly involved with helping
00:30:57
and you know and gradually you just you have to be very you have to do less and less you can't do very much training at
00:31:02
the start but you have to be very systematic in the training that you do do and then over time you're just
00:31:07
building on that and building on that and eventually we're back to back to full full training. Um, but like the
00:31:13
breastfeeding was really hard because it's it's just an energy. >> It it literally drains nutrients, right?
00:31:19
And when you're an athlete and you're trying to train, that's taking a lot of
00:31:23
nutrients and the the the breastfeeding is also taking a lot of nutrients. That's that's really hard for for an
00:31:27
athlete and that was kind of quite tricky. >> So, we had to really reduce the loads
00:31:32
during during that period. But the husband was was great in helping at the nighttime and you know, they were a
00:31:38
team, right? And I don't think I think I think one thing that I've always found
00:31:41
with elite athletes or any athlete is there's not there's always a significant
00:31:45
other who's fundamental in that one person achieving their goals. >> I I can think of many examples like
00:31:51
that. There's just not one. >> Yeah. I I'm just when I was researching
00:31:54
for this uh chat today, uh I was intrigued by that because um my partner's girlfriend had a baby 8 months
00:32:00
ago and some days she's on the phone just like crying because it feels like her world's crashing down. So I can't
00:32:06
imagine like training for an Iron Man with everything else that's going on. It's it's remarkable, eh?
00:32:11
>> Yeah. Yeah, she did amazing. And um yeah, so she she got um >> and and I don't think I don't think she
00:32:17
expected to win. We didn't expect to win and it changed it changed her life. So
00:32:21
unfortunately I'm not coaching her now, but it was some good successes, that's
00:32:24
for sure. >> Do you deal with weekend warriors or just pros and elites? >> No, I do. I have a lot of weekend
00:32:29
warriors. Yeah. So I have a I have a triathlon coaching company and there I deal with weekend warriors. Yeah. Most
00:32:37
of them are like I said they're mostly highlevel CEOs though who are just real
00:32:41
gogetters driven. >> Yeah. Super driven. Yeah. And they're all around the world. Morocco,
00:32:46
>> US, um you name it, Germany, they're all around. So very international.
00:32:51
>> A couple of questions in relations to um in relation to weekend warriors. Um
00:32:55
yeah. What are your thoughts on Strava? What are your thoughts on Strava? >> Um, it's a great app for getting
00:33:04
competitive. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Do do you like a bit of Strava? >> I I Yeah, I I love it, but I'm not um
00:33:10
sort of competitive at all. I've got, you know, and I can understand there's
00:33:13
that ego aspect which um is problematic for some people. >> Yeah, I think I think it it can be a
00:33:18
nightmare because if you're chasing those segments all the time. I mean, I'm
00:33:21
on Straa, but I don't really I don't really use it. you know, my my data goes
00:33:27
in there, but I don't I don't really follow and and what's what's going on on
00:33:30
there. But a great app for keeps people motivated, right? That's that's the main
00:33:34
thing. Consist consistency is everything. If you can keep on going, if it gets you out the door, brilliant.
00:33:40
>> I mean, if I if I get a notification on my phone advising me that I've become a
00:33:44
local legend, it feels good. >> Yeah. Because you've done the hill so many times. Yeah. Exactly.
00:33:50
>> Yeah. Um >> even better if you get a segment, though. >> Yeah. Yeah. Have you got any segments? I
00:33:55
don't know if I've got a segment yet. Interesting. I have to try and get a
00:33:58
segment. Do you have to be fast to get the segment? Pretty fast. Okay. Okay. >> I think you can get segments for that
00:34:03
period. I mean, my dad my dad's always trying to get segments in his age group.
00:34:06
I think if you get like the advanced, like the paid version, it tells you in your age group. So, you can get like,
00:34:12
you know, 70 plus. You get your 50 plus. You get your 50 plus segment over here.
00:34:17
And >> so, I need to pay to pay this up. >> You need to pay to get your age rank
00:34:22
segment. >> Oh, that seems hollow. Um, and what do you what do you um think about
00:34:27
unqualified um Tik Tok and Instagram influencers giving advice? >> What do you what do you does that does
00:34:33
that make you pull your hair out? Does it draw? >> It does. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
00:34:36
Yeah, it I mean I think the social media is a it's a real black box, isn't it? In
00:34:43
terms of how you get to the position to give the information because like it doesn't seem
00:34:50
to be it can be anyone, right? So I think I think you got especially in the world we live in today it's a lot of
00:34:57
information out there and unfortunately >> number of followers has more clout than
00:35:04
credentials now people will say you know PhD MD whatever or 100 followers and then
00:35:11
>> 1.1 million followers oh that that person knows what they're talking about
00:35:14
and that's the way it is right and I think that's the problem >> so but I mean like one of the things
00:35:19
that I I really try to give reasonable information on like to to people like social media and I'm I'm I'm really
00:35:27
trying to do that more in 2026. But I'll always try and bring it back to some
00:35:31
scientific study. I won't just state it, you know. I'll try and give a reference
00:35:34
and I mean it's the academic in me that just comes out. But I think that that's
00:35:39
that's important to me at least is having some kind of backing or scientific figure. But you you do have
00:35:46
the letters after your name and also um you know just the I don't know I suppose
00:35:50
the CV >> to back up what you're saying whereas um a lot of people on Instagram do not.
00:35:55
>> No no and it's rife as well isn't it? So >> yeah okay so well let's go back and talk
00:36:00
a bit about um Dan PL um first how did you end up in the NZ? >> Yeah good question the So I was uh I
00:36:08
brought up in the UK and I lived in I went to Liverpool University. Have you heard of Liverpool University? No,
00:36:15
>> it's it's pretty big sports science university. It's probably the biggest in
00:36:19
in the UK. So, I did I went there, did my undergraduate, did my masters at Leads when Alistister Brownley Oh yeah.
00:36:27
>> Yeah. When the Brownley brothers were there. So, Alistister Incredible.
00:36:29
>> Yeah. I had a scholarship to do a masters there. >> So, I was basically coaching the Leads
00:36:34
team as an assistant coach whilst doing a master at the same time. And um Alistister and Johnny, his brother, were
00:36:40
both juniors at the time. And that year Johnny went no Alistister went on to win
00:36:44
the world junior championships and that was the kind of the start of his trajectory to then winning the Olympics
00:36:49
in London and whatnot. But um from there I got a job working in Singapore um as doing but ba basically as a
00:36:58
triathlon coach but after a short time I moved and went to pure exercise physiology for the Singapore sports
00:37:03
council and then when I was there I was doing distance learning for Edith Cohen University from Perth and one of the
00:37:10
lecturers from there was professor Paul Lawson who was just starting a new job being the
00:37:17
head of physiology for high performance Sport New Zealand. So he moved over here
00:37:22
and he really wanted to bring me over to do a PhD. So he got a PhD scholarship under high performance sport New
00:37:29
Zealand. I got the PhD scholarship and came over initially to do a PhD basically under a scholarship but the
00:37:36
what what was called the prime minister scholarship with high performance sport New Zealand. So
00:37:40
>> did you ever consider becoming a professional athlete? >> Um yeah I did. I did. I did, but I
00:37:46
wasn't honestly I didn't really find my I I was kind of better as I went into
00:37:52
the Iron Man. I I always say that one of my biggest regrets is I'm I probably
00:37:56
switched to Iron Man a little bit too late. I didn't really do my first Iron
00:38:00
Man until I was in my 30s and it was, you know, by that time I was in the middle of my PhD. And so
00:38:06
>> cuz you were too busy studying in your 20s. >> Yeah. I just wasn't into it. I was
00:38:11
wasn't I just Well, I was into triathlon, but I wasn't into I wanted I was very focused on the short distance,
00:38:15
which I wasn't very good at. >> Oh, you say you weren't very good at
00:38:19
What was your 10K time? >> 33. >> Okay. >> It's not It's not good enough, is it?
00:38:24
You need to be 20. You need to be 29 minutes, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Compare it to like a Hayden
00:38:29
Wild standard or a Brownley standard. Terrible. >> It's terrible. Yeah. So
00:38:33
>> disar disgraceful. >> Yeah. But it is Well, it's a long way of
00:38:36
them. But but then but then I kind of went, you know, then I went into the Iron Man and I I was better at that. So
00:38:42
maybe if I turned to Iron Man quicker, perhaps I could have been a professional Iron Man athlete. But um
00:38:46
>> who knows? But it's no regrets. I mean, I'm I'm pleased the way the way things
00:38:50
evolved and I'm pleased that I had, you know, my time doing working with elite
00:38:55
athletes and working in the Olympics. You know, I always wanted to go to the Olympics and I've been twice. So
00:39:01
>> yeah. Who have you been with? Yeah, just the rowing team for 2012 and 2016.
00:39:07
>> Awesome. Yeah. What's that experience like? >> Do do you feel nerves when you're over
00:39:11
there as a like a a coach spectator? >> You got some skin in the game. >> Yeah, you have skin in the game. I don't
00:39:17
think you you feel as nervous as the coaches do. I think they they have a lot of skin in the game, but there's
00:39:21
definitely a little bit of of nerves associated with it. And there were two really different experiences. Like I
00:39:27
would say London was very different to Rio. London was a lot more grandiose and a lot more spectacular. Um, Rio was a
00:39:35
little bit different. You know, it was kind of was half done. But, um, and we didn't do as well as well. We did well,
00:39:40
but not as well. So, uh, but there were two two great experiences. I mean, at London, I stayed and kind of went to the
00:39:47
closing ceremony at London at Rio. I came home afterwards, but >> that was cool. I mean, I went to the
00:39:52
closing ceremony of the Olympics, you know, in the middle of the stadium and stuff. And that's a I don't think many
00:39:57
people could do that unless you're Olympian. So that was pretty special. >> Do you think London felt special because
00:40:03
it was your home country? >> Um, I don't think so. I mean, it was my first ever Olympics. I just think the
00:40:11
the event was so well put on. It was really really good. And the the village and all the logistics around it were
00:40:19
just spectacular. So >> yeah. >> And your your wife Kate, how did you how
00:40:23
did you guys meet? Is she a Kiwi or is she from the UK? >> South African. >> South African. Oh
00:40:27
>> yeah. Yeah. So, so we um we represent the Commonwealth in our house. We got
00:40:31
English living in New Zealand, South African. Um we met for a mutual friend. >> Yeah.
00:40:36
>> Yeah. >> So, her brother's um gone Elliot. >> Oh, the cricketer.
00:40:40
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The Harry Jav. >> The heavy Harry Jav. Yeah. Yeah. So, so
00:40:44
there was a time when we had she was she was working for when we first marketing.
00:40:50
Yeah. She did the breakers marketing and um where was it rowing and so we had kind of a lot of New Zealand sport going
00:40:55
on in the house. >> Wow, that is a lot. >> Um yes. So when was when was your last
00:41:01
Iron Man? >> 200 Was it 23? >> 2023. >> Wow. And you're done?
00:41:08
>> Yeah. >> Have you got the carve tattoo? >> No. >> You're wearing an Iron Man watch right
00:41:13
now? >> Yeah. But I can take this off. >> Why? Why? Why not the tattoo?
00:41:17
>> No. No. I'm not a tattoo type of I had, it's funny, speaking of tattoos, I had
00:41:22
um I had shock wave therapy cuz I've got this plant fasciitis at the moment. So I
00:41:25
had shock wave therapy the other week and the >> the guy who was doing the therapy goes
00:41:30
to me, "Have you ever had a tattoo?" And I went, "No." And he went, "Oh, that's
00:41:33
unusual." And I said, "Why is that?" He says, "Because if you if you can take
00:41:36
this, you can take having a tattoo." And I was like, "Oh, that's not you're not
00:41:40
selling this to me." >> Yes. So this this injury you've got at the moment, you were telling me about
00:41:45
this before we came into record mode. Um it's um holding you back from doing high
00:41:49
rocks at the moment. And it's the most underwhelming injury imaginable. >> Yeah. In terms of how it occurred,
00:41:55
>> how it occurred. Yeah. Trying to dig holes in the sand with your heels as
00:41:59
hard as you can with your kids on the beach. But I don't think that was the Yeah. I think that was the that was kind
00:42:04
of the the start of it, but I don't think it was the if it was the running on top of it that just exacerbated it.
00:42:12
So, I think I think I'll be able to I think I'm supposed to be racing this
00:42:15
weekend and I think I'll hopefully make the start line. So, we'll >> strap it up, hope for the best, take
00:42:20
some painkillers. >> In terms of the Iron Man events you've done, um what if anything have you
00:42:27
learned from those things that you could never learn in a lab or a lecture? >> Oh, that's a that's a what? Yeah, that's
00:42:34
a really more psychological question than anything. >> Yeah. I think I think one of the things
00:42:39
I always tell people with Iron Man is that those long days is that you you never you always have to go through the
00:42:45
es and flows and I think that's a I think that's life right is that you always go through ups and downs and in
00:42:50
an Iron Man you have >> you have periods of that you feel terrible but you also have periods where
00:42:54
you feel >> okay or better and like over the course of a marathon I mean you'll know this
00:42:59
from running a marathon sometimes you feel terrible and then you kind of get through and I think that's one thing
00:43:03
that you can't learn other than when you do it is that you learn to to always
00:43:07
stay positive and never lose your head and you will always you could always come out the other side of it and things
00:43:14
it's such a long day and I've had um I've had races where in fact it was in
00:43:19
was I man New Zealand the first time I won the age group overall there my pedal fell off on my bike so literally it fell
00:43:25
off and I couldn't ride so I had to wait for the mechanic and I lost about 10
00:43:30
minutes and um but you know I just kept on going and kept on going and I ended up catching the leader with about 2k to
00:43:36
go on the last bit of the run. But those sort that kind of mindset of not thinking it's over until it's over
00:43:42
>> is really something that really important especially for those long days
00:43:46
where you where you're really going after where you just 8 hours is a long time lot and and if someone cracks in an
00:43:52
Iron Man they really go >> you could if they're walking if you're like 10 minutes behind and they start
00:43:57
walking in the last 10k which can happen you can catch them. >> Yeah. >> You know so it's not not like in many
00:44:03
other those those shorter events you know. Have you ever ignored your own advice in an event and paid the price
00:44:08
for it? >> In an event, have I? I've definitely ignored my own advice in training.
00:44:13
>> Was that deliberate? Like trial and error? >> I think one one of the one of the um
00:44:18
greatest but probably less known New Zealand coaches ever is um Arthur Lyd who kind of invented running um and he
00:44:25
used to this very unscientific but he used to train on himself and I think some weeks he'd get up to like 300 km
00:44:30
>> just work out what the optimum amount was. Is that so like you in training
00:44:33
you're just trying things out? Yeah, I definitely do a lot of that, but I try I
00:44:38
try different sessions on myself. I can't say I've tried to push myself to
00:44:41
the limit and you know, but I've done lots of things where oh that might be is
00:44:45
that session achievable, you know, whe it's like 8 by3 minutes at a certain watch where you do certain different
00:44:50
things and then >> and I'll always try these things on myself before I kind of give them out.
00:44:55
And um and generally I have come I have come unstuck a few times where it's been a little bit too
00:45:03
hard. >> Get halfway through. Yeah, that's not happening. >> Yeah.
00:45:08
>> I heard you in another podcast um that I was listening to talk about um the three
00:45:11
things theory which I really liked. Um do do you know what I'm talking about? I
00:45:16
thought >> I think I think I do. The three um the three things you can have in life. You
00:45:20
mean? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So the philos the philosophy is the three things is that I and it wasn't
00:45:26
my idea. Someone taught me this by the way. >> I it's the first time I'd heard it. So
00:45:30
I'm crediting you and I loved it. >> Yeah. Is that if you want to do well in
00:45:33
anything in life, you you can probably focus on three things, but if you do four, you're not going to do well at
00:45:40
anything. And that so that might be like family, business, and training. >> But that means you're not going to have
00:45:46
any time for your friends. if you want to do family business and work and friends and social life,
00:45:52
you just can't achieve what you're actually trying to achieve. And that's
00:45:55
the I really I think that's very true. And to an extent now is that I sound like I don't really have much of a
00:46:02
social life, but my social life I try and bring it into my training. So that means that my friends would come around
00:46:08
and do the sessions with me or cycling with your friends. And that's the Yeah,
00:46:13
that's the that's the three things theory. And I I really believe it's it's
00:46:17
a strong one and it's true. >> Well, you talked earlier about um some of the bike rides and conversations you
00:46:23
have with um like Gordy Walker. So, yeah, that sort of ticks the box. It's not everyone's idea of socializing, but
00:46:29
>> it is it's a double box. It tick ticks the box twice because I I can't
00:46:33
>> I mean I mean there's no way I'm going to go out and have a beer or or go for a
00:46:37
coffee. I just, you know, I can't I can't fit that in. But I have to do that
00:46:40
training. So, you can if you can bring those two things together, it's it's
00:46:44
even better. these results that you've got in Iron Man, what what sort of cost
00:46:49
did it come to you in terms of sacrifices? >> Well, I mean I would say I mean I
00:46:54
haven't really had any cost. I mean >> as of so I mean I but I think >> I always have tried to go I'm been I've
00:47:03
always been a real goal setter and like I'm very stubborn with with when I when
00:47:07
I have a goal in mind. So when I raced Kona in 2018 in 2015 for the first time and I was fourif no six in my age group
00:47:17
but I did it at the time and I remember calling my dad and I was like I could definitely win that one day you know and
00:47:22
then and I and I had a real wanted to win in 2017 and I wanted to go there but my but Kate got pregnant and so and
00:47:32
Bella was actually born the day of the race in 2017. So, I qualified for Kona, but we realized that, you know, the
00:47:43
Bella was due on that time. So, we we we put it to one side and didn't go that
00:47:46
year. But then I re-qualified in 2018, and then we had, you know, we had a agreement that I was going to really
00:47:51
focus to get to 2018. And and thankfully, I achieved that goal. But, um, I think the cost would come if I
00:47:59
hadn't achieved that goal because it's so much work. And and in all honesty the
00:48:04
that it's quite strange because by that point there I had finished my PhD I had
00:48:09
a number of publications in the area of exercise physiology. I was coaching Torenzo Bazone who you might oh I love I
00:48:15
love you. >> Yeah. Yeah. So I was coaching T. Um and I was coaching a number of other pro
00:48:19
athletes. So I had quite a good coaching background. Um and Toenzo was flying then as well. He was going super well.
00:48:26
That was a year that year he came seventh in Kona. his best ever coner and he'd won he went on that slew wouldn't I
00:48:31
man New Zealand went on the slew of races >> but it wasn't until I did what I did in
00:48:36
2018 that I ever got any notice from the the triathon world really and so it made
00:48:42
a massive difference so if that hadn't happened maybe it would have been a sacrifice
00:48:47
>> but then after that I shut that down and then I I wasn't really focusing finished
00:48:51
my PhD so that was a big I was really focused on my PhD then I really focused on Iron
00:48:58
finished the Iron Man, I really focus on building some of the businesses I have now. And then once they were
00:49:02
established, I I decided that I'd really focus on trying to break 8 hours for an
00:49:06
Iron Man. So, and a switch. So, you I think like that's what you have to kind
00:49:10
of, >> you know, switch your focus from one thing to another. And you know, there's
00:49:16
there is that three thing rule, but within that three thing rule, you've always got a one that's kind of your
00:49:23
northstar at the time. Like the northstar might be your business, the north star might be your family, the
00:49:28
northstar might be your training. Um, so that's kind of how >> like a a 40% 30% 30%.
00:49:35
>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And and they and I think they they vary from certain
00:49:38
times and even like through the year, you know, you might do a triathlon or you might have a race and then it'll
00:49:43
shift. Those three things would shift and that's the way I would I would try
00:49:47
and get those goals um set and then you shift throughout the year and achieve what you want to achieve. Yeah.
00:49:53
>> What did a um you set the scene for us. What did a difficult training week look
00:49:57
like in order to get those results? >> Um I mean I was I was a very consistent
00:50:02
trainer. So I I and I think that's the way people should always train is that
00:50:08
you everything comes back to consistency. So you don't want to have weeks that are too difficult. So my my
00:50:14
hardest weeks were never crazy crazy hard, but they were still I was very consistent leading into like some of my
00:50:21
best races. For example, I do 21 hours of training for 21 weeks. That was my average leading into like Kona in 2018.
00:50:28
I did 21 hours for 21 weeks. I just remember that very specifically. >> That doesn't seem too bad. That works
00:50:32
out to be 3 hours a day. >> Yeah, not too bad. But but over 21 weeks, it's consistent. All right. So So
00:50:39
yeah, I would I would typically do um two to three sessions a day. swim. You know, Monday I'd swim, bike, run. Um,
00:50:45
Tuesday I'd do a kind a longer ride. Wednesday I'd swim and swim and run.
00:50:50
Thursday I do like a swim, a bike and a run. Fridays I take easy. Then then I'd
00:50:54
have reasonable like big weekends. Whereas Saturday might be four, five hours, sometimes six hours of bike run
00:51:03
and then long run on a Sunday. >> Were you permanently tired for 21 weeks?
00:51:08
>> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. that was permanently tired. And I think that's I
00:51:11
think that's one of the things about that I've learned from moving from Iron
00:51:15
Man to Hierrox is that the Iron Man training is very draining. Very draining compared to Hy Rocks. It's not as
00:51:21
tiring. It's um it's more intense, but it's shorter. Whereas if you do a 5h
00:51:26
hour ride and a 1-hour run, you you're good for nothing. And I think that almost affects your parenting a little
00:51:31
bit and everything else because you're just so tired. >> Yeah, you can be present, but it doesn't
00:51:35
mean you're being a great parent. >> And that's good. I mean, it's fine when
00:51:39
you when your children are under one, but once once they get to six and eight, it becomes
00:51:44
>> tricky, right? Because they demand your attention and they demand your energy.
00:51:49
So, >> so to do three workouts a day, what time are you getting up in the morning?
00:51:52
>> Five, generally. >> Oh, and in bed by >> 9:30. >> Yeah. You you must be more aware than
00:52:00
anyone about the importance of sleep. >> Yeah. Three pillars of recovery is
00:52:03
sleep, nutrition, and training periodization. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What's your usual sort of sleep
00:52:08
routine? >> I generally get about I generally have seven hours of sleep, eight hours in
00:52:12
bed. >> Yeah. >> And so kind of how I how I how I roll with it. >> Do you wear like a ring or a watch or
00:52:18
anything? Do you like do you fixate on your on your your sleep and how much deep sleep you're getting? And
00:52:23
>> yeah, I mean I have a I have I have an Aura ring and a and I wear a Whoop at
00:52:28
the same time. So yeah, I haven't got my Whoop on now, but um I do have them
00:52:32
both. But I get I don't get too freated on it. I mean, my PhD was in heart rate
00:52:37
variability, so I'm more obsessed with that than I am with the sleep. But generally, the those sleep metrics,
00:52:43
they're great for your number of hours and how much you're sleeping and maybe
00:52:46
your efficiency score, but they're not very good for the >> for the deep sleep and the the slow wave
00:52:51
sleep. So, I don't take too much notice of of those numbers. >> Yeah. Heart rate variability, HIV. I I I
00:52:58
was listening to a podcast on my run yesterday morning that you did with Art Green a few years ago and it was like an
00:53:03
hour of you guys talking about HIV and I >> you were getting right in the weeds. Um
00:53:09
yeah, so briefly like what does that mean? You did a whole PhD on the thing. What does it mean?
00:53:13
>> Just finished a book on it, too. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, if you want a good
00:53:16
snoozefest and it's going to be published and >> Yeah. Human kinetics. Yeah. So, it's
00:53:21
it's we're one of one of four authors. Um it should be out in spring of the
00:53:25
Europe time. April time here. >> Oh, I'll plug it. Yeah. Like who who should get it? What will we get from it?
00:53:31
>> Well, it's for anyone who because it's it's got a variety of things. It's got
00:53:36
training. It's got um psychological. So, we're one four authors. We've got we
00:53:40
cover like some mental training and um kind of the cognitive side of things. And then we also cover the exercise
00:53:47
physiology. So me and my co-author Marco Alini, we do the we do that the physiology side and then um Sylvian
00:53:54
Lombardi and Emma Mosley are doing the psychology. So I didn't know much about
00:53:58
the psychology of HRB, but it's it's fascinating how different personalities
00:54:02
have different HIV traits and and how your ability to cope with emotional stress and how you can train your mind
00:54:07
to cope with more emotional stress and affect your HIV. That that area is fascinating. My area was always in
00:54:13
training side like how you how you adapt to training and how you if you're training if you're recovering well
00:54:19
you're not recovering well if you can do more training if you can do less training
00:54:23
>> so but yeah to to answer the question in HIV it's um HIV is heart rate
00:54:29
variability and as so as we sit here right now a heart rate might be 60 but it doesn't mean that each gap between
00:54:35
each beat is a second what happens is that that gap varies every single the gap between beats is always varying so
00:54:41
it go from 1,000 milliseconds to 600 milliseconds. And that gap, the variation in that gap is what heart rate
00:54:49
variability is. So you're measuring that gap and how much it changes. And the
00:54:53
reason it's important is because more variation is linked to your like your what we call the parasympathetic side.
00:54:59
So your rest and digest, your kind of recovery state. And then the less variation is linked to your sympathetic
00:55:06
side, which is the fight or flight, your more stress state. So, you know, if I'm
00:55:10
quite nervous for this podcast interview, I'll be a bit more sympathetic. If I'm nice and relaxed,
00:55:14
I'll be more parasympathetic. And you, we know that you're more adaptive to
00:55:18
training. When your parasympathetic system is higher, you can cope with more training. So, if you try and overflow
00:55:25
yourself with high stress training at a time when you're already stressed, your
00:55:30
adaptation to that process is less. >> So, it's almost like, you know, fgging a
00:55:33
dead horse. It's similar similar aspect to to that kind of >> that kind of meth methodology.
00:55:39
>> Amazing. What's the title of the book? >> HIV for H high availability science and
00:55:45
practices or something like that. It's really boring one. >> Yeah, you're going to you're going to
00:55:51
stop talking it down. I thought this this is pretty much >> it is it's a great book. It's going to
00:55:56
it is um the the title may sound academic but we've made it >> it's quite chatty compared I mean I
00:56:03
publish a lot of papers in academic journals it's not like that >> uh it's very extensive and it covers
00:56:09
>> the good thing about higher variability is you wouldn't believe the crossover to
00:56:13
everything aging like we've already talked about you really as you age you the more you can maintain higher and
00:56:19
stable HIV the better you the better your longevity the better your health the better your wellbeing and that's why
00:56:25
these metrics like Whoop orings are becoming so popular because they are able to track well-being really really
00:56:32
really well. >> How how important is diet to you like dayto-day? What what does your diet look
00:56:37
like? >> Um I'm pretty um diet diet's really important to me. Um and I'm very strict
00:56:43
about it. I guess I wouldn't say strict, but I'm quite I'm I'm very strict on my
00:56:48
food sources more. Um, when I was doing Iron Man, I was quite well known for following more of a low carb approach to
00:56:54
my to my diet. I'm not so much like that with higher rocks cuz it's not as
00:56:58
important for for that type of sport, but still now I'm still, you know, I prioritize my proteins and um I'm
00:57:06
prioritized the food source, making sure it's, you know, organic and whole food
00:57:10
and and they're kind of the main focuses I I put put on diet. Now, um, but I
00:57:17
think what I tell athletes is the most important bit is the protein part is that you get I mean you had Mickey on,
00:57:23
right? So, yeah, Mickey would say the same. So, you know, get the protein part right. Make sure that's your big rocks.
00:57:29
And then the fats and carbohydrates part, it doesn't really matter that much. It's dependent on what your
00:57:35
nutritional goals are and and what sport you're doing. And >> in that that podcast I was talking about
00:57:42
before that you did with Art Green, you and him uh were broing out about talking
00:57:46
about doing a a raw liver diet. >> Yeah, we did. We tried it. Yeah, we just
00:57:51
was trying an experiment. >> It sounds awful. >> Yeah, it was actually quite good though
00:57:55
to be I felt I felt really good on that. It was it was um yeah so we were doing um it was a car it was a kind of a
00:58:03
modified carnivore diet where it wasn't we were allowing a bit of fruit at the
00:58:07
same time and I have to say I did feel good on it >> but we were eating raw liver
00:58:12
>> as a result of it wasn't it wasn't as bad as it sounds >> you say you felt good on it how like is
00:58:18
it possible that part of that is placebo or no like >> of course I mean placebo the placebo is
00:58:23
a real thing >> but it um I mean but We I also I used to drink I wouldn't say I drank a lot but I
00:58:30
did drink a little bit of alcohol now and again you know maybe one or two glasses of wine with dinner a week but
00:58:37
during that I stopped completely and I haven't since >> I stopped Yeah because I just saw the
00:58:42
effect it had. >> Yeah. >> So it's a massive lever. >> Do would you people talk about having
00:58:48
cheap meals and stuff? What if you were having like a a cheap meal? What would you have?
00:58:52
>> Um >> when was when was the last time you went to a KFC? Oh, I wouldn't even know.
00:58:58
>> You look disgusted. >> Yeah, I I couldn't I couldn't actually
00:59:01
answer the question. >> I don't think I've been in years. Absolutely. I haven't done a fast food
00:59:06
in years. I sound boring, don't I? But >> no, no, no, no, no. It's fascinating.
00:59:09
Like, I mean, look at you. You're fit. You're healthy. Um, academically, you
00:59:14
you've done some crazy stuff. Athletically, you've done some crazy stuff. Um, so I'm I'm just intrigued and
00:59:21
>> I haven't been in in a very long time, but we we try and, you know, we just try
00:59:25
and keep it at home. My my wife's amazing with the the way she brings the food and collects the food. Like she,
00:59:32
for example, she makes Greek yogurt out of milk herself, >> you know. So we have this like raw Greek
00:59:40
yogurt to eat at home and it's like, you know, high in protein and great for the
00:59:43
kids. And >> how do you avoid McDonald's when you've got kids? You know, there's there's like
00:59:48
there's marketing and stuff and >> they've never they've never been.
00:59:52
>> Yeah. They >> all it's gonna take is a visit to a friend's house and they they get a
00:59:55
nugget. >> So far, we've avoided it, but I've kind of like indoctrinated in them that it's
00:59:59
not good for them. So, when they see it, they're like, "Oh, daddy."
01:00:03
It's like, "Yes." >> What did Well, we were we were at um we
01:00:08
were at the beach the other day and one of the parents came over and he says, "Oh, I think I think my kids should hang
01:00:14
out with your kids a bit more." I says, "Why is that?" I says, "Well, they were
01:00:16
just over at the ice cream van." And Jake, who's six, he goes, "Oh, yeah,
01:00:19
that's got seed oils in it." So, I was like, "Probably it's not
01:00:27
correct." But at least he's at least he's thinking on my lines. >> Okay. Well, if you could only eat um the
01:00:36
same meal over and over again every day, what would your plates look like? >> Steak and It have to be a steak. Yeah. A
01:00:44
steak and a salad with sweet potato or something. >> Yeah. >> So, we say you can have three different
01:00:49
things because I I can eat I can eat clean, but I I I can eat very boring as well. Like if you told me what the right
01:00:55
things to eat were. >> Yeah. >> Um for health and performance and everything else, I could have the same
01:00:59
thing meal after meal. So, for breakfast, >> what would you have? >> Um for breakfast every day.
01:01:07
>> Can Can I have different things in this? Can I have different things in there or
01:01:10
is it just what one thing? >> There's no rules. >> There's no rules. Yeah. So, if I if I
01:01:14
had to have one breakfast, I would have like Greek yogurt with protein powder and a banana in there. That's what I
01:01:20
would have. >> It's pretty. I mean, protein powder, Greek yogurt. >> Yeah. That's what I would go for.
01:01:25
>> Would that be filling filling enough? >> Yeah. With the protein powder?
01:01:28
>> Yeah. With the protein powder. Yeah. >> Okay. And what about lunch?
01:01:31
>> Um, eggs on some sort of paleo toast. Yeah. >> Yeah. Fried eggs. >> Yeah. It's not bad though. I don't mind
01:01:40
it. like a like a gluten-free, lower carbohydrate. >> That's what I'd have.
01:01:45
>> Are you eggs every day? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um at least three. Minimum of three. So
01:01:52
we in our street we have um we have a lady over the road who has her own chickens and she kind of gives the
01:01:58
chickens. You got you got an egg dealer. >> Yeah. She she deals the eggs around the
01:02:02
street. And so, but we're always um we're the highest egg consumer in the
01:02:05
street. And I'm like, street, you making sure that we're getting the I want to
01:02:09
make sure that we're the highest egg consumers in the street. Are we still the highest egg consumers? And we are.
01:02:16
>> It's very confusing though, isn't it? Because I'm sure there was a period in
01:02:19
my life where eggs were >> there was for sure. Yeah. But there's no more there's no more whole food now. I
01:02:26
mean, it's well known that it's it's not that way anymore, I think. But that I
01:02:29
think that was all the saturated fat hypothesis and it's being well debunked
01:02:33
now. >> What about dinner? >> Steak and salad. >> Steak and salad. Okay.
01:02:39
>> Yeah, >> they all sound like great meals. >> Yeah, I love a steak and salad though. I
01:02:43
I don't I think I could have >> I think I could have that every day, every single day for sure. Easy. The
01:02:48
steak and salad. Um maybe with a bit of like sweet potato like a sweet potato chips as well, something like that.
01:02:55
>> Homemade mayonnaise. We do that at home. So, >> what about like evening snacks? Do you
01:02:59
always have some Whitaker's chocolate on the freezer or >> Yeah, generally
01:03:04
some um 92% >> you know 92% Whitakeras. >> No. What's that? >> Like really dark. Really dark. Yeah. So
01:03:13
92%. Most people would think it's disgusting to be honest, >> but I don't mind it. I think it's quite
01:03:19
good. >> Yeah. >> This is great. Um >> I often another one that I like is um a
01:03:25
cereal called Wonder Crunch. Have you heard of that? >> No. >> Yeah. It's a Wonder Crunch cereal.
01:03:31
Anyone anyone should get I I think it's awesome. It's a and and my kids love it,
01:03:36
too. So, it's a high protein cereal. It's got 20 grams of protein per serve
01:03:39
cuz most cereals just like cardboard, right? It's got no It's just all carbohydrates, nothing in it, no
01:03:44
protein. But this is the high protein cereal called Wonder Crunch and it has 20 grams per serve. So, sometimes you
01:03:49
want to like bit of a protein hit. Prioritize your protein. >> Um, good way to have that at night, too.
01:03:55
Sometimes >> you What do your kids eat for breakfast? It's hard with cereals, eh?
01:04:00
>> Yeah. I mean, they have cereals once a week, but they have like the Wonder
01:04:03
Crunch. Um, but it's is hard with they um they typically will have some kind of
01:04:10
like egg, like fried egg or something like that. But, >> you know, they do get the they sometimes
01:04:14
get the egg for for a while. So, then, you know, they just go off them and then you're like stuck. But
01:04:21
>> but what happens when you take the kids to the grocery store? They sort of have
01:04:25
the the Kellogg section at sort of eye level for kids and there's the bright
01:04:28
colors with fruit loops. >> We don't actually I don't think we don't
01:04:31
really take them. >> No, we don't. They just don't go. >> It's probably smart.
01:04:36
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't think we've um I think we
01:04:40
obviously have been, but not very often. >> And generally we go to like, >> you know, we go in the daytime without
01:04:47
them. I mean, who wants to take kids to a grocery store really? M oh well there's a lot of temptation as well like
01:04:52
god how many toddlers do you see having a tantrum because they can't have a kinder surprise or whatever it is.
01:04:56
>> Yeah. Well it's like it's a kids sport as well. You know my kids do a lot of
01:05:00
different activities and after activities often the lollies will come out and they just like a nightmare
01:05:05
tantrums all around. >> Oh just the sugar. >> Yeah. Just but you know or fighting over
01:05:09
the lollies or it's like it's just like crazy. So >> um hey this has been great. I got a
01:05:15
couple of sections here. I've got one uh one section called high performers and
01:05:18
then one question called um well one card called questions for everyone um which is just more towards the weekend
01:05:24
warrior I guess. >> Okay. >> So I'm keen to pick pick your brains.
01:05:26
First of all, high performance. What is one word that defines world class athletes?
01:05:30
>> Consistency. >> That's a great answer. So so boring but it's a great answer.
01:05:36
>> Yeah. But that's um that is everything is all about. And that's what I think is
01:05:41
like anyone who's who's listening or watching this and they want to achieve
01:05:45
anything, you have to pick something that you can do consistently. >> And that's like like we're talking about
01:05:50
before with your Kepler um aspirations like including that's why I said including cycling. It will allow you to
01:05:57
be more consistent with your training because you won't you won't get as
01:06:00
injured. You'll do more training. You'll get you get that consistent cardiovascular hit and that's the the
01:06:05
most important aspect and that's with anything. So, if you're looking at a
01:06:10
diet, if you're choosing like a fasting mimicking diet or a vegan diet or a carnivore diet or keto diet or whatever
01:06:16
it might be, you just got to pick the one that you can do as consistently as you possibly can and that's going to
01:06:21
always lead to your best results for everything. >> Um, something I heard you talking about
01:06:28
on another podcast is um something that you've um sort of stolen or borrowed
01:06:32
from the All Blacks. Um, and in particular, it's in the uh the James Kerbook Legacy, which is a great book.
01:06:37
uh and he talks about the no [ __ ] policy and this is something that you've
01:06:41
um implemented maybe not on the record but off the record or under the surface with your clients. What does that mean
01:06:47
for you? >> Well well I mean I have a lot of athletes who ask me to coach them and
01:06:51
the first thing I always do is I I I I just interview them. Well, I say interview, but we have a chat and then
01:06:59
and then I see if I like them or not. and and I don't um and often they'll
01:07:04
come to me and they'll give me their results and they'll say I'm fast at this
01:07:08
and I can do this and I really don't care that much really because if I'm
01:07:11
working with someone I much prefer that they're a good person and I get on with
01:07:15
them and you know they have good values because they're the people who who you
01:07:21
want to because you enjoy working with those sorts of people and that's always
01:07:25
been my philosophy is I'd sooner take the person who's just nice to be around.
01:07:30
I mean, we I went on a camp with some athletes to Kona, not last year, the year before, and they were just like
01:07:36
four of my one-on-one weekend warrior athletes, and we had just the best time, and they all got along, and that's kind
01:07:42
of that's what I live for. It's so good. So amazing when you can have those sorts
01:07:46
of um >> those people, and they're all so inspirational. like, you know, they had
01:07:50
one one guy who's um he's a pediatric dentist who owns like multiple pediatric
01:07:57
dentist um places around the US. Another one who's a he owns a unicorn like startup in the US, you know, and they're
01:08:04
just like they're inspirational, but they're all just so awesome at the same
01:08:08
time. And they're sort of people who I >> like to work with. >> Yeah. Yeah. The it's interesting. Okay,
01:08:14
just think about it now because it's um obviously you don't want to be with
01:08:17
anyone that's um yeah cocky or arrogant or a [ __ ] but yet to to be like a a
01:08:23
a 1enter I suppose you do need like a huge amount of self-confidence or self-belief and it can be like a fine
01:08:30
line between that and arrogance. >> Yeah. What what's the what's the word is
01:08:35
like I think there's there's I think there's a difference between ego and
01:08:38
self-confidence. So like ego is when you think you're better than other people.
01:08:43
Self-confidence is when you believe in yourself. >> And I think those there's a high degree
01:08:47
of self-confidence and that's true. But they don't think that they're better
01:08:50
than other people. And and that's the difference is that you can have those athletes that have a high ego and they
01:08:55
think, you know, something's beneath beneath them or they're better than
01:08:59
other people. But all athletes have a high degree of self-confidence for sure. And I think anyone who achieves anything
01:09:05
has a high degree of self-confidence. So um and they're the sorts of people who
01:09:09
you want, but you don't want the ones with the big egos. That's a great Can
01:09:13
you Can you repeat that line again? I think it's worth repeating. I've never
01:09:16
heard that before. >> The difference between ego and self-conidence. So So yeah. So an ego
01:09:20
ego is somebody who generally believes that they're better than another person. Whereas a
01:09:26
self-confident person is a person who has a lot of confidence in their own ability. So and that that
01:09:31
self-confidence comes from their training, from the things that they've done, but they don't necessarily think
01:09:36
that because of that they're better than that next person. They still believe
01:09:38
that the people next to them are a threat and they still believe that they have to they can they're worthy people.
01:09:43
>> [ __ ] that's so good. >> What makes a great coach athlete relationship truly effective at the
01:09:48
highest level? >> Years consist again goes back to consistency, doesn't it? But I think
01:09:54
like the the best coach athletes relationships are the ones that have been going for a very very long time.
01:10:00
Lisa and Gordy, prime example, like they're they're athletes who have been
01:10:04
together for a very long time. Michael Phelps, his coach, I think it's Bob Bers
01:10:08
of Bob his they were together for his entire career. But it's those long relationships that make um make good
01:10:15
athletes and coaches and because and the main reason that is is because then they
01:10:19
build this amazing like communication of like knowing without knowing without having to tell without having to say
01:10:26
what's going on. They kind of can read each other really well and that's when
01:10:29
the best relationships come about. >> Yeah. >> I um Yeah. I don't know if you if you
01:10:35
know Craig Kirkwood or Hayden Wild. >> Yes. Yes, of course. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, they they had a long long
01:10:40
term. I've actually got an episode recorded with Craig, which will probably be out before this one. Um, but they had
01:10:44
a long relationship and they sort of parted ways. Not on any bad terms or anything, but just cuz Hayden wanted to
01:10:50
explore if there's another, >> I suppose, level to the game. >> Yeah.
01:10:53
>> Yeah. What do you think about something like that? Is that a reasonable thing?
01:10:56
Is that understandable an athlete at that level? >> I do think there's I mean, I think all
01:11:00
all coaches and athletes, they'll always run their course, right? And um and who
01:11:06
yeah I mean it just >> I suppose you never know if it's the right move.
01:11:08
>> You never know it's the right move and and who knows I mean Hayden's been going
01:11:12
okay right since but he's not also not done as well in the in the Olympic distance but he's been crushing the
01:11:18
T100. So >> I mean Hayden's actually in Browns Bay at the moment staying there. So he's
01:11:22
just he just messaged me yesterday in fact. >> What do you want to go out for a run or
01:11:27
a roll? He was trying he was trying to respray me. I think he was trying to get me to go out riding but um not quite I'm
01:11:31
not quite not quite ready for that. >> He's he's a savage J. Like I had him on
01:11:36
the podcast really early on on the the piece and he sent me a voice note while he was out mountain biking. Yeah.
01:11:41
>> And just about had paused like halfway through the voice note because he was
01:11:45
driving you riding over a tree trunk or something. He's just like um just type
01:11:50
two fun all day every day. >> Yeah. Yeah. He's just he loves it. I mean he's someone who just enjoys the
01:11:54
process, right? He loves getting out there and training. So, but yeah, I mean >> I mean I mean Craig's having now amazing
01:12:01
success with Sam Ruth, right? So, >> I'm sure he's got his thing he's got his
01:12:05
hands full with that as well. >> Oh my god. Yeah. To time stamp this conversation, just the weekend before
01:12:11
Sam Ruth did like a 353 mile at the age of 16. >> What the [ __ ] is he He will He's likely
01:12:18
to be New Zealand's best uh middle distance runner ever. >> You You'd hope so. I mean, he's if he
01:12:25
stays injuryfree and and consistent with his training, he's definitely going to
01:12:29
he will definitely be. Yeah. Really? >> Well, since you know Hayden, what would
01:12:34
you like to see him do um beyond triathlon? Like >> he's got to do Kona.
01:12:39
>> He has to do the Iron Man World Championships. I'd love to see him do
01:12:42
that. Um >> he's a great great runner, e like fantastic runner. >> Incredible.
01:12:47
>> Yeah. So easy as well. He just looks effortless. some of the things he's he
01:12:51
sent he sends me some of his training that he does and I'm just like wow it's
01:12:54
like he's next level really is next >> more than 21 hours a week >> for 21 weeks
01:12:59
>> a week >> he's just he's never sitting still anyway is he
01:13:02
>> no no he's always on it >> he loves it >> uh when when do you push and when do you
01:13:08
protect an athlete from themselves? Um I think I think career-wise you when I look at an athlete I'll always look at
01:13:19
their career and where they are in their trajectory of the career. So younger athletes need a push. Older athletes
01:13:24
need a pull back. So generally in my experience a younger athlete they don't
01:13:28
really have that capacity or that knowledge or that knowledge to truly know where they can go to and they'll
01:13:35
often need a bit of a push. Whereas if you have an older athlete who's like been in the game for a long time and say
01:13:41
like say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say
01:13:42
say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say say I'll just think of Gordy and
01:13:43
Lisa for example if um if Lisa came to Gordy and she says oh I'm feeling really
01:13:48
tired today you know he would definitely listen because that Lisa does not would
01:13:51
not say that unless she really meant it whereas a younger athlete who might say they're a bit tired like you know this
01:13:58
is part of the process you need to kind of go through so I think there's a lot a
01:14:01
lot of um that but I think generally like fatigue and tiredness you can you can push provided where it
01:14:09
is in the training cycle especially if you've got a recovery period going up
01:14:12
but >> injuries and niggles that then you don't push those right because they they can
01:14:17
get worse you know and I and I think I think I always think that when I've I generally I've felt very tired for
01:14:24
many sessions and >> I have never ever regretted well when your motivation is low to train I've
01:14:31
never regretted doing a session and you know that if you don't feel like running
01:14:34
if you go out and do that And have you ever regretted doing that run? >> Never.
01:14:39
>> Never. Exactly. >> You always feel better at doing feel better after it. So generally you can
01:14:43
always get through it. The only time you'd feel you'd regret is if you had a
01:14:47
calf strain and you you felt a bit tight and you weren't sure and you tore it
01:14:51
during that then you then you'd have regret. But generally from if you don't
01:14:55
feel like doing it and you feel fine, you you never regret it. And I think that's that's what that's what so I
01:14:59
think it's always you can always put you can always do a little bit more than you
01:15:02
you realize. It's hard to overtrain. Very hard. A lot a lot of the wisdom you
01:15:06
were talking about does come with age though, like in your 20s where you were pain is weakness leaving my body kind of
01:15:12
guy. >> I mean, I think I had when I was younger. Have you heard of Paul Amy?
01:15:17
>> No. >> So Paul Amy was a he's uh he's a he was a Kiwi. He moved but he moved over to
01:15:24
the UK and he came second at the World Triathlon Championships for New Zealand in 1998.
01:15:30
>> Um and he was he beat Hamish Carter, for example. So he was that level. Yeah,
01:15:33
Hamish Kat won the gold medal at 2000. >> Yeah, exactly. So, he's super But he
01:15:37
moved over to the UK and he started training at our center in Lithra and I was assigned to him as his training
01:15:44
partner and that was the one time I did come become very over like really tired,
01:15:48
very overtrained cuz I was trying to train with him all the time. >> Um, but that was yeah, I think that was
01:15:54
in my 20s and I definitely pushed a little bit too much. But yeah, but that wasn't through intensity. It was just
01:15:59
through volume. It's like the term that term overtraining is used so flippantly
01:16:05
and I really don't like it. It's a it's a terrible term because it it's it's
01:16:10
very suggestive that overtraining is a reason why someone's fatigued. And I can
01:16:15
tell you nine times out of 10 it's never the training. It's always something
01:16:19
else. It's life stress, not enough sleep, poor nutrition. Because if that same person
01:16:25
did the same training again with different things around them or different loads
01:16:29
around them, they wouldn't have the same outcome. So I think that's where the
01:16:33
outside stuff becomes super important. >> That's so interesting. >> So when you start working with someone
01:16:40
that's already like at the top of their game or a world champion, how do you how
01:16:43
like how do you earn or build their trust? So, I mean, do you know what? Like, I
01:16:49
was thinking about this because when I went when I went to rowing, for example, I feel like I got quite a lot of trust
01:16:55
quite quickly. >> And I do, >> even though it's a sport you you don't
01:16:58
>> even though it's a even though it's a sport I'd never really been that
01:17:01
involved in. I did a little bit of rowing when I was in Singapore. But I think if you if you are an athlete
01:17:06
yourself around athletes, you get it's a it's a lot easier. You they if they know
01:17:11
that you've done some kind of athletic endeavor yourself and you and you you
01:17:15
have trained to a to a degree, you you kind of get that process. It definitely is of benefit. And I would like, you
01:17:23
know, I go out riding with Emma Twig and I go out riding with Mah Dale and, you know, you build that relationship just
01:17:28
from riding bikes with them. And um >> and I think that's um yeah, that is kind
01:17:34
of it's easier to to build to build that level of trust. But >> like to answer the question, when you
01:17:38
when you when I when I've taken on athletes who are of that high level in the past, for example, I coached um
01:17:45
Javier Gomez. >> Oh, yep. >> You know Javier Gomez >> triathlete? Yeah. Yeah. So I coached
01:17:49
him. Yes. He's legend. So nine times world champion. So I coached him towards
01:17:52
the back end of his his career. >> And you know when he came in didn't
01:17:57
change that much. You know you you I looked at his past training. I looked at his typical run volume. I looked at his
01:18:02
typical training intensity distribution and what he did and I added a few little
01:18:07
differences but not you don't want to change that much because things that work work. You know small iterations.
01:18:13
And even when I look at some of the best performers in that I've worked with in
01:18:16
New Zealand, if you look at their training year on year, it doesn't change much. It's it's pretty mundane and it's
01:18:22
pretty similar. It's very repeatable and they're doing the same thing year in
01:18:26
year out. Um, but it's just really small tweaks. You know, an extra little bit
01:18:31
less recovery here, an extra little bit of rep duration there, a little bit more
01:18:36
volume, you know, slightly longer in a high intensity week, but for the most part, it stays the same
01:18:41
>> because it's um a formula that works. >> Yeah. I suppose there's not a lot of
01:18:45
coaches that are going training with these high performance athletes, so that's a good way to earn trust as well,
01:18:50
I guess. >> Yeah, it helps. It helps. And like I've had that some of the questions I've had
01:18:54
on other podcasts was what what do I think when I when I do these training programs? What do I think? But I really
01:19:00
think that I can when I write a training program, I can really feel it. And it sounds strange. I can I can feel
01:19:07
if I'm writing it, I can feel the day and what it feels like. And then and so
01:19:12
I'll be like, "Oh yeah, if I'm doing that on that day and then wake up the
01:19:16
next morning and I've written a session, I can almost feel what that session is
01:19:19
going to feel like." And I'll sometimes change it because I have this feeling
01:19:21
and I don't think you'd get that unless you've done it yourself. >> Yeah. It's almost like like an element
01:19:25
of empathy in a way. >> Yeah. To a degree. But you So you could feel the the fatigue. You can feel how
01:19:32
it feels and then you it really helps with I mean obviously I've got the scientific background but that kind of
01:19:38
part is very helpful for me. >> You you mentioned Emma Twig before. She's won um backto-back Olympic golds.
01:19:44
Um, were you working with her before that? Before she won the >> Yeah, I worked very close closely with
01:19:49
Emma in 2015 when she won the World Championships in Amsterdam. Yeah. And a coach. So, yeah, she was she was good
01:19:57
fun. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. What I mean, I haven't had her on the podcast yet. I'd
01:20:01
love to have her on though. Like, she's it's incredible what she's done. And,
01:20:04
>> you know, I I just wonder what kept her going like after Olympic disappointment
01:20:08
before, you know, winning back to gold. >> She I mean, she'd be a great interview
01:20:11
to have. You know what I mean? That's adversity right there. >> Yep. Yeah. Massive disappointment
01:20:16
because I mean bronze in bronze I mean I was with her in Rio and she was obviously gutted. So
01:20:22
>> yeah. So she won a bronze theater. >> She know she got not bronze. Sorry. She
01:20:26
got fourth. >> Fourth. Yeah. >> Yeah. And she got fourth in London, fourth in Rio and then she came back.
01:20:31
>> It's incredible. Eh, like why didn't she give up? >> Because she knew what I think she
01:20:38
>> It's that self-belief, right? She knew what she was capable of. It comes back
01:20:41
to that ego versus belief. She's not someone with an ego, but she has a strong belief in what she can do.
01:20:46
>> But four years is such a long time to wait to prove yourself. >> Very long time.
01:20:49
>> Or the opportunity to prove. >> It was more than that because of co I
01:20:52
think was >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Five years. Yeah. >> Um what's the biggest mistake you see
01:20:58
smart, motivated, world-class athletes make? Uh biggest mistake I think often I think like the sometimes
01:21:13
they'll they change change things too too frequently um change the support team change the coaches change and so
01:21:20
when they you know I think world class athletes often when things are going wrong they kind of the the worst ones
01:21:28
the best ones will look in the mirror the worst ones will look through the window and look outside and then blame
01:21:33
other people for their poor performances. Whereas I think the best ones will always look at themselves and
01:21:38
try and change things. Whereas the worst will look outward, you know, think, "Oh,
01:21:43
my psychologist isn't right. My training routine's wrong. My nutrition is wrong."
01:21:48
And they they start changing everything. And that's the >> they're that's a recipe for disaster
01:21:53
because they're often a world- class performer because of the things they've
01:21:56
done to get there. And small things small things don't make a >> small things like that can often unravel
01:22:02
them completely. >> Yeah. It's kind of like um don't throw up the baby with the bath water. Yeah.
01:22:07
And and maybe you hear some of these books talking about the 1 percenters and stuff, but I suppose you got to as you
01:22:13
mentioned before like the big rock analogy. You got to focus on the big rocks before you focus on the
01:22:17
>> but the the a those athletes are really good at the 1 percenters but the they're
01:22:22
looking at those the small things within their own you know like a bike position
01:22:26
or a helmet you know that's what I think of 1enters but those other those other
01:22:30
parts are so important to keep consistent >> because they take I mean especially
01:22:34
those relationships they take time to build >> and you basically starting from scratch
01:22:38
again. >> So for you these days what does what does a great day look like? What's a
01:22:43
great day? >> A great day would be a bit of training, time with my family, and bit of work to
01:22:49
be honest. >> I know. I I really enjoy my work. So, I really enjoy it. I like
01:22:55
>> You got to You spend so much of your life working, eh? You You got to love
01:22:58
it. You have to love it. >> Yeah, I love it. Like, I don't like people I was I was at my take had my son
01:23:04
athletics and I was talking to talking to one of the dads about um you know, did he had time off and oh yeah, you
01:23:11
know, he's back to work and said, "Do you?" I said, "No, well, I didn't really
01:23:13
take any time off because I actually I I can't I can't not do what my work, you
01:23:19
know. I really I really enjoy and it's it's quite diverse as well. I do a lot
01:23:24
of different stuff, so I have a it's all in the sports realm, but there's lots of
01:23:27
different things that I do get involved in. So, it's always exciting. I mean, I
01:23:30
was at last last week I was at um the Sydney Swans, for example." >> Wow.
01:23:35
>> You know, doing some work with them and it's just I was at the Gold Coast Suns
01:23:38
AFL team after that and it's it's just cool. It's really good. And I really
01:23:42
enjoy enjoy those that my work. So I can't complain with that. If I can get those three things done, brilliant.
01:23:49
>> Do you do you ever ever feel sort of um starruck or in awe? >> No, I don't. I don't. So the I always
01:23:56
tell this story, one of the one of the star struck moments I've had was I I made the top two. So, and I got flown
01:24:04
out to Oklahoma City Thunder for the I got nearly we got a job with Oklahoma City Thunder as a sport scientist and
01:24:10
they flew me out and Kate um at the time uh to do the interviews and you know and
01:24:18
I met Kevin Durant, I met Stephen Adams, I met and then and I was I was on the court with um Stephen Curry doing his on
01:24:26
the court literally as close as we are to each other now watching him do his warm-up routine. So that was and then I
01:24:31
was in the back with um Russell Westbrook doing his warm up with his trainer and stuff. So that was pretty
01:24:36
starruck, but that was the only time. >> Oh, come on. That's the most that's out
01:24:41
of it. That's crazy. >> Yeah, it's crazy. That was crazy. I didn't get the job, but I think it was
01:24:45
for a good I think it was a blessing really. But um >> why >> they I think they chose Well, they they
01:24:51
said that the other guy had more experience working in the US than me, so >> can't argue with that. Did you um did
01:24:57
your bro out with Steven Adams over the >> No, I I just met him, you know, shook
01:25:00
his hand in the in the um you know, the the sports director said he's from New
01:25:04
Zealand and he was like I'm just so intrigued by him. E I saw some stuff online last week about him
01:25:12
sleeping on a mattress on the floor in his house despite earning like 50 or 60 million a year. Like he's just such a
01:25:18
basic >> I don't know Spartans sort of existence. He's just like has like no care or
01:25:24
desire for material goods. >> But it's funny like I mean I've been
01:25:28
involved around top top sports people so much >> all the time. So you kind of just kind
01:25:34
of just gets becomes the norm. >> It just just really does. So >> yeah. You dropped some other names. So
01:25:41
team New Zealand. What did you do with team New Zealand? >> I was head of performance.
01:25:44
>> Right. So you were dealing with the Cycl. >> No, it wasn't Cyclones. It was the
01:25:48
Grinder. So it was the it was for the campaign that um that we were here when it was here the one during that COVID
01:25:55
period. Yeah. So I was the head of performance there with my colleague Adam Story who so it was me and him. He was
01:26:00
leading the conditioning I was leading the kind of the endurance side. >> So we it was really good though. It was
01:26:07
very different though. I think from my own experiences with other sports you know like kayak with like rowing the
01:26:14
training is everything. So this such a focus is that we get the training right. This is the priority. Whereas when you
01:26:20
work for something like team New Zealand, it's like >> they'll get the training done when they
01:26:25
need to get it done. You know, let's focus on getting the boat faster at first. But it's it's true. I mean, of
01:26:32
course, the boat's making the biggest difference, but it was >> So the training is like the 1enter.
01:26:36
>> Yeah, it is. Exactly. It's the training is making a small a small part of the
01:26:41
bigger picture. Whereas you I mean you can have the fittest fastest grinders in the world,
01:26:46
>> but if you haven't got a fast boat, it's not going to do anything, is it?
01:26:49
>> So So that was a It was interesting. It was good though. I It was a good um good
01:26:53
experience, that's for sure. >> Yeah. And we won. So >> what are what are some uh Yeah. Who are
01:26:58
some of the other teams or athletes that you've worked with? >> Um who to think now I'm trying to think
01:27:03
of some other ones. Um, I think that would be the the main one. They're they're the main ones in New Zealand. I
01:27:10
mean, I'm starting to do a little bit more with some teams in Australia just
01:27:14
through um because I'm part head of research for a micronutrition company called Pillar who we do like Amiggas um
01:27:23
um so like your creatine all those sorts of things and we we sponsor some of those teams and as part of that I go in
01:27:29
and help them with some of their readiness to train and their training regime. So that's and that's been
01:27:33
awesome. I've been really enjoying that because it gives me the access to that
01:27:36
high performance and the facilities. Oh my Sydney Swans facilities >> out of this world.
01:27:41
>> It's I mean it's it's like compared to like Olympic sports when you go into
01:27:45
those professional sports and it was the same at Oklahoma City Thunder their facilities they had like a they had a
01:27:51
person in their facility one to just do haircuts and the other one just to style their trainers. They had like a
01:27:59
trainer buffer. The guy is there's two things that the basketball players care
01:28:02
about is haircuts and trainers. So we, you know, we don't want them leaving to
01:28:05
go and get those things sorted. So they have them at the facility. >> It's a different world, isn't it?
01:28:09
>> Yeah. It's crazy. >> It's crazy. >> Hey, um I've got uh a set of questions
01:28:13
here called questions for everyone. And some of these I outsourced from Instagram and some of them are just for
01:28:18
my own curiosity. Um so for everyday people who just want to feel better, what matters more than anything else in
01:28:24
health and fitness? >> I'd say diet. M >> yeah I think I think diet is the the
01:28:32
main lever you can pull um because because it's something that you do every day right and it's has such a massive
01:28:38
implication on how you feel and the the life you lead and and I think you can you can pull three levers in terms of
01:28:45
diet but I think you should either like restrict restrict like the calories so you can eat less or you can just
01:28:51
restrict the types of food you eat or you can restrict the time that you eat you know it's actually a pet thing this
01:28:56
is he talks about that is and I I think everyone should always pull on one of those levers during their life. Unless
01:29:01
you're an athlete, you can probably get away with not. But I think, you know,
01:29:04
those those three things is that I always consider that you if you can if you can just be restrictive over the
01:29:11
types of food you're eating, keeping them whole foods, I think that that well
01:29:13
that will have the biggest impact on how you feel for sure >> because it's such a it's such a prime
01:29:18
prime part of it. And you know, eat, sleep, move. I know that's three things,
01:29:23
but you'd be you'd be surprised at how little you need to do to feel to get a
01:29:31
massive cardiorespiratory benefit. And that can be so small like uh you know the difference between doing 0 minutes
01:29:37
and 10 minutes of running is huge. You 10-minute run is massive compared to 10 to 20 minutes not that much but 0 to 10
01:29:45
big difference. >> Yeah. So, >> what's one health myth you see on a
01:29:50
regular p um you see regular people falling for even though the evidence says otherwise?
01:29:55
>> Fourth. >> That's a tough one, isn't it? >> That's a very tough one. One health
01:29:59
myth. Let me I'll have to have a time. Can we cut then while I think about it
01:30:03
and then we go back into if you got nothing we can we can just move. >> No, I'll definitely I'll definitely have
01:30:07
one. Let me have a think for a moment. A health myth. I think sometimes like um I think one myth around protein
01:30:18
restriction is definitely a myth. I think like you know with the uh damage you know too much protein can be
01:30:25
damaging you can't process it. I think I think protein should be the main thing
01:30:30
that people should mainly focus on. Um yeah I think that would be really the main one. I think another one
01:30:37
would be running is bad for your knees. Not true. I often hear that. My my doctor did once tell me that it
01:30:45
was bad for me to run more than 5k. So that's also not good. Um but I think uh
01:30:51
yeah, I think the that old mot that something is better than nothing. So you just got to do a little bit of little
01:30:57
bit of something. And I think you know you just do I think that that would be the I know that's not now a myth
01:31:03
anymore, but that's what I would I was thinking. >> Well, and I love what you said before
01:31:07
like eat, sleep, move. It's it's bloody great. So, um yeah, eat well, do a
01:31:11
little bit of movement, sleep well, and um you're taking those boxes. >> It's everything. So, sounds so simple,
01:31:16
right? But >> I think simple is good. The the more simple message is, I think, the more
01:31:20
effective it is in a lot of ways. >> Yeah. But if you can, it doesn't have to
01:31:23
be it doesn't have to be crazy amounts of movement. You don't have to be
01:31:26
training for high rocks. Just a If you can do those three things every day, >> you'll be you'll be pretty good.
01:31:32
>> Yeah. How should weekend warriors actually be training if their goal is
01:31:35
longevity and not not not even Yeah. finisher medals or events. >> Yeah. Well, you Well,
01:31:42
>> was your doctor right in that account? Like 5ks, that's enough to run.
01:31:45
>> No. No. >> Definitely not. I think just saying I think she was saying it was actually
01:31:49
actively bad for my health. But um but I think it Well, firstly, I mean, I feel like I feel like a bit of a broken
01:31:57
record, but it does come back to that consistency component is that you have to choose an activity that you
01:32:05
>> that you can do consistently. So you have to choose something that you enjoy
01:32:08
doing. So if you're if you hate running, do not choose that activity for the
01:32:13
thing that's gonna that's going to be making making the difference. So but I
01:32:18
think like when you talk about well-being and longevity, I think like aerobic fitness is one, you know, so
01:32:24
that's might be some easy endurance with some maybe some faster high intensity
01:32:29
and then your your strength and muscle mass will be the other component. And that's how I would be petitioning my
01:32:35
week for for a like a longevity app. And we're actually working with a company at
01:32:39
the moment called Kyora who's just um we're just building an app that's very
01:32:44
much based around this, which is an app very, you know, a very simple eat, sleep, move nutrition, but the training
01:32:51
is based around week, you know, weekend warriors and people who just want to have a plan that doesn't mean that they
01:32:58
um it's not complicated and it's more based around longevity and wellbeing. So
01:33:02
it's really simple and that will be you know we you will have some focuses on a
01:33:06
sport if you want that to be but it can just be a well-being training plan which
01:33:11
will consist of some aerobic endurance and some strength and those are the the things you really need to
01:33:18
>> take care of as well. >> That app that you're talking about might
01:33:21
tie in with um the next question or it might not. What is a realistic training structure for someone with a job,
01:33:26
family, and limited recovery time? >> Does that tie with the app? >> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Because at the
01:33:33
start of the app, we we give timings, you know, so that that you would put in how much time you have available to
01:33:40
train, right? So, but I think an hour a day is more than enough. So, that is a lot of training for most people. That's
01:33:49
more than enough. So, but I think if you can do like if you can set aside 30 minutes a day, you've got you can do a
01:33:56
lot you can do a lot of great training and stuff for your health in that. Yeah, it's so easy.
01:34:02
>> And I if you can't do that for yourself, there's something wrong. That's like 2%
01:34:05
of your day. >> No. Yeah, exactly. But it's about being But if you can do that seven days of the
01:34:10
week, amazing, man. Do an hour even better. >> But um yeah, I mean, but but if you're
01:34:15
doing that sort of thing, provided you're not doing like an F45 maximal like really hard
01:34:23
training every single day, you'll be fine. You just need to the golden rule of of training is you you want to and it
01:34:31
actually comes back to heart rate variability because when we talked about that with HIV before and we talked about
01:34:36
the parasympathetic system and the and the um and the sympathetic system. One of the things that I found with my PhD
01:34:42
was you what you want is you want that HRV to be high and you want it to be reasonably stable. And what happens is
01:34:49
that if you do just high intensity training, it'll, you know, you get that really high sympathetic drive and your
01:34:55
HRV will gradually come down. But the other side, low intensity training, it pushes it up. So it bolsters your HRV,
01:35:02
which is why in endurance sports, we often talk about this polarized method of training, which is like most of your
01:35:07
training is done at a low intensity with 20%, so 80% of a low intensity, 20% at a
01:35:11
high intensity. And that's how everyone should almost think about how they're
01:35:15
they're doing their weeks is that they're doing Monday might be just really easy aerobic keeping your heart
01:35:21
rate. You know, a good a good rule is 180 minus your age below that number. So, you know, if you're 40, lower than
01:35:28
140 heart rate. Um, so you do one day when it's really easy aerobic training.
01:35:33
The next day you might do something a bit harder, which might be a combination of strength and high intensity interval
01:35:38
training. Wednesday you go easy. Thursday you do something harder. Friday you go easy. Saturday you do something
01:35:44
harder. Sunday you go easy again. And that's how you or even a full rest day.
01:35:48
Then you go back into Monday and you kind of that's how you can cycle your weeks. But the most important thing is
01:35:52
that you you separate the days. Hard day, easy day, hard day, easy day. >> And that 180 minus your age is actually
01:36:00
sounds really simple. It's called the maximum aerobic fitness test. And it's
01:36:04
so it's really good for most people who are doing who want to do basic aerobic
01:36:10
training. Get a Har monitor, wear it 180 minus your age, train below that, and for many that could be walking easy or,
01:36:17
you know, might be easy biking, but it's um really a really good basic measure.
01:36:23
>> What's your professional thought on um wristwatches with um a built-in heart
01:36:27
rate monitor? Are they accurate enough? >> Not. They're not I think they're getting
01:36:32
better, but I wouldn't trust I find them typically okay cycling, not so good
01:36:37
running because of the the the movement. Yeah. >> Uh, what should people in their 30s,
01:36:43
40s, and 50s be doing now that their future self will thank them for? >> I feel like you almost covered that
01:36:48
before. Like half an hour a day, an hour a day, whatever. >> Strength training. Strength training.
01:36:52
Strength training, protein intake, I think would be the >> the main, especially as you get 30, 30
01:36:57
to 40. I mean, after 40 in particular, I mean, I turned 42 and I managed to put on quite a bit of muscle. So, it can be
01:37:05
done. >> Yeah. I was going to call you out on that cuz you you weren't doing any
01:37:08
strength training in your 30s, were you? Back then you couldn't do a pool. >> No, I wasn't. No, I wasn't at all. I was
01:37:12
doing just purely eye man. In fact, in 2018, I did almost no strength training at all. But I still managed okay. But um
01:37:21
but since then I've managed to put on about 10 kilos of muscle. >> Yeah, I think I think becomes becomes
01:37:29
harder to but it's still if if you're gonna you know the grass grows where you
01:37:32
water it. So if you're gonna lift weights, you're definitely going to put
01:37:34
on some muscle, aren't you? >> You will. uh provided you have it's not
01:37:38
actually it's not actually strictly true. Um if you just lifted weights and you didn't eat a lot had minimal protein
01:37:44
and you did a lot of endurance training you wouldn't put any weight not muscle.
01:37:48
Um but if you if you the environment has to be right so you have to be a little bit of a calorie surplus. You have to
01:37:54
have the protein available for to you and then yeah you could um then you you will likely put on some weight.
01:38:00
>> Yeah. I think I think one of the things that I found was that I was doing very
01:38:03
little endurance training in the early parts when I was trying to put on more more size and I think that was that was
01:38:09
probably a key point. I didn't really enjoy it very much though. >> It's it's funny, isn't it? Like um you
01:38:16
go to a marathon event and you see some good marathon runners and a lot of them look sick. Um but iron Iron Man
01:38:21
athletes, they they tend to look a bit healthier, >> a little bit more. >> Were you quite a scrawny Iron Man?
01:38:26
>> Um it varied. I wouldn't No, I wasn't as scrawny as some of the scrawnier ones.
01:38:31
Um, but I I was definitely scrawnier than I am now for sure. And I'm not and
01:38:37
I'm not and even if I go to a high rocks, I'm actually one of the smaller
01:38:40
high rocks athletes still. >> There's much bigger guys than me. But I think that's I mean it helps. I mean, at
01:38:45
the moment I'm still like a runner bumbling through the stations. So, >> do wearables actually help everyday
01:38:52
athletes or do they just create anxiety? >> Definitely help. I'm a massive believer
01:38:56
in wearables, but I mean, you're talking to the HRV man as well, so I realize I
01:39:01
come with my biases, right? But um I think I think the I often get so many questions about wearables, you know,
01:39:07
what's the best whoop or blah blah blah blah. But but they're all um they're all
01:39:13
in terms of the measurement of HRV, they're all accurate, but it's the interpretation and then what you do with
01:39:20
that, the prescription based on the interpretation is is where we're we're
01:39:24
kind of not really there in that wearable space yet. The the prescription is not very good. Um, but I don't think
01:39:31
I think like that anxiety comes. Have you heard of the Dunning Krueger effect? >> No.
01:39:35
>> So the Dunning Krueger effect is like the the measurement of like of your
01:39:40
knowledge, right? So you start off with something and you don't know very much
01:39:43
about it and then and then you kind of and it's and then you learn a little bit
01:39:49
and you think I know everything about this you know and it's like and then then those people who have learned a
01:39:54
little bit about heart rate variability they start to get anxious about it and they get oh my god what's happening now
01:39:59
you know and they get a low read and they get anxious but then once you get over the other side and you get to like
01:40:03
that expert knowledge you're like hang on I don't really know that much about
01:40:06
this but that's okay you know and you're kind of a bit more layer about it will
01:40:10
be what it'll Um, >> but I think that Dunny Krueger effect is what happens with people in wearables is
01:40:15
that those people who don't know much about it, they don't get that anxious
01:40:18
about it. Those ones who learn a little bit about it to be dangerous, they're
01:40:23
the ones who get anxious about it. But once you get to the other side, like someone like me who's studied it and
01:40:28
done a PhD in it, I don't really get anxious about it. But you want that person to be controlling your your
01:40:33
prescription. That's the person. And you don't want that person who's who knows a
01:40:36
little bit to be controlling your prescription because they're they're going to freak out because, you know,
01:40:41
they don't really understand what they're looking at fully. >> If someone listening wants to improve
01:40:46
their health by 20% in the next 3 months, >> 20%. Jeez, that's a very specific.
01:40:51
>> What would you prioritize? >> Um, or 10% 15% in certain percentage
01:40:57
here. >> It depends on the person. >> Yeah. But I mean it I mean I think it
01:41:03
does come back to the each sleep move again. >> That would be the the three things and
01:41:08
it depend and it would I'd look at the person right what I would prioritize out
01:41:11
of those three is like if that person's got you know they're they're really
01:41:16
they're doing well the training is okay but the diet's terrible and the sleep's
01:41:19
good you're going to focus on the diet. If the >> if that person has a good diet is not
01:41:24
doing any exercise sleep's okay you you know that's what that's how I would do it personally. But
01:41:30
those three, they're the three levers that you're going to always move, right?
01:41:33
Those three things. >> Y >> It's funny, isn't it? Because that
01:41:37
figure 20% um the more unfit someone is, the more achievable that would be. Whereas there's no way you could like
01:41:43
improve yourself 20% in 3 months. >> No, there's no way. I mean, when you're
01:41:47
talking with Olympians, you're talking they might improve themselves by 2% over
01:41:52
four years. >> Yeah. >> And big, you know, that could be enough though, those small marginal gains.
01:41:59
Yeah. >> What's one habit that gives the biggest return on investment for physical and
01:42:03
mental health? >> Um, one habit I think exercise. >> I mean, everyone's different. I mean, I
01:42:14
I think about myself personally, I'm I'm a bit I need I need exercise in
01:42:20
my day to I always feel like and and you're you'll I would think you're the
01:42:25
same is that once I have that exercise portion tackled, >> I will everything else will go a little
01:42:31
bit better in my day and it'll be it'll be it'll be I I feel like that part is
01:42:36
so important for everything else to follow follow through. And and I I once read this article and it's something
01:42:43
that I took. It was it was a CEO guy and he says and he was his argument says why you should
01:42:48
always prioritize your training and his argument was that if you don't prioritize your training you won't do it
01:42:57
because the work and the other bits will always get done like your family commitments
01:43:02
and your work will always get done but if you don't prioritize your training
01:43:04
that will always fall apart but the other parts will always happen. you know, you'll always get the work done.
01:43:09
You'll always do those small parts because they have to get done. And I think and that's the way I kind of I
01:43:14
always try and do my training first thing in the morning, get it done, and then the rest of the parts will come on.
01:43:19
And that's for my mental well-being. That's so important because >> I just need it.
01:43:24
>> That space. >> Yeah. When was the last time you had like two or three or four consecutive
01:43:29
days without movement? >> Was it illness? Broken bone? >> Yeah. Actually, influ influenza.
01:43:35
>> Influenza. >> Influenza. Yeah. That really got me. That was um good story on that is that
01:43:41
so I did influenza. Oh, sorry. I didn't do influenza. I did high rocks in Brisbane and I woke up that morning and
01:43:47
my HRV was down and I and and I had a bad night's sleep, but you know how you
01:43:51
kind of know that it's not quite it wasn't like a bad night's sleep before a race. I felt like I was a bit
01:43:57
off. So I called Kate and I'm like I'm feeling a bit off here. Um but anyway, I
01:44:03
did the race anyway. It was my first ever hierro. So, I was there in Brisbane. I did the race and um and I
01:44:09
finished the race and I'm sat around I'm in the Brisbane sun and I'm like just
01:44:12
outside with a hoodie on shivering. Can't stop shivering, like really bad shivering. And I I went I said, "I'm
01:44:19
going to have to see my friend was there and he went mate, you do not look good.
01:44:22
You're going to going to have to see the medic." So, I went to see the medics and
01:44:24
I had a temperature of 39° but I was shivering like crazy and um yeah, so I did this race with influenza. I managed
01:44:32
to get myself back to New Zealand somehow spreading my lergie all through the airport all over the plane. I just
01:44:38
the poor the poor person sat next to me. Is >> this preco postco? >> It's postco.
01:44:46
>> Wow. >> Yeah. So this was um so I managed to get myself home but then I um but then I was
01:44:53
I was so sick like for 5 days I I was like literally bed couch bed couch bed couch. But that was the last time I But
01:45:00
probably wouldn't have been that bad if I didn't do a high rocks with influenza
01:45:04
to be honest. So >> I I yeah I I love it. Like when I first started running, I'd um say go to Fiji
01:45:10
for a holiday and I would enjoy having a week without it. Now uh when I go away like the fitness and movement, it's just
01:45:15
it's part of my holiday because I just don't feel complete without it. >> Yeah.
01:45:19
>> Um Yeah. I tell people you got to get to the point where it doesn't feel like a
01:45:23
chore anymore. It just becomes part of your being. >> Exactly. It's just totally It's like
01:45:27
brushing your teeth, right? It's just so normal to uh to get out and and do something.
01:45:33
>> I mean, I I listen I was listening to >> uh was it you know Matthew Mahon? Yeah.
01:45:39
And he was saying that you know his >> when he goes on holiday he does two
01:45:44
things. He exercises and writes cuz he says that's what he does you know that's
01:45:48
just the way he goes. And I'm the same is and as as are you that when I go away
01:45:53
I'll still do something. >> Yeah. I enjoy it. What advice do you give to people who feel like they've
01:45:59
left it too late? >> Um to do what? To do to do anything to do some exercise or
01:46:07
>> Yeah, probably to do some exercise. >> Yeah, I think >> is it okay? Okay, let's make it marathon
01:46:13
specific. Is it ever too late? Like I'm thinking about my mom. She's in her 70s,
01:46:16
so she's been a lifelong runner. She can still run. If someone was 70 and they
01:46:20
decided to run one, could they? >> I think that would be quite difficult. But
01:46:24
>> I think it's never too late to >> It depends what you're trying to do. I
01:46:29
think there's always small things you can do to to achieve a goal. You just have to that goal might have to be a
01:46:35
little bit smaller, but if you're 70 maybe like walk a kilometer or something, you know, there something's
01:46:42
better than nothing as I said before. So if you can you have to just set the goal
01:46:45
setting is so important that you set the goal correctly. But I don't think it's
01:46:49
ever too late to do >> something. I mean, it definitely gets harder, but the goals have to be be
01:46:55
different. I I was reading a paper the other day that was looking at like weight training in 70 year olds and um
01:47:03
and they put them through a weight training routine and it's really hard for them to make mus to gain muscle
01:47:08
mass, but then they put them through a weight train a weight training routine with adequate protein and they actually
01:47:13
gain some muscle. So even at that age, so it's it is never too late, but it's
01:47:19
just a bit harder. If you're a young 20year-old and you give them weight training, they could probably not have
01:47:23
that much protein and not have and have a bad diet and still put on muscle. But as you get older, you have to be a
01:47:30
little bit more down, you know, have things in tune with what you're trying to achieve and be a bit more scientific,
01:47:37
but it's going to be harder for sure. >> Yeah. And there's Yeah. Train harder,
01:47:41
not smarter. I I mean, yeah, I used to be able to run with hangovers in my 20s and get like long training runs, um,
01:47:47
smashed out with pretty decent hangovers. Couldn't dream of doing that now. >> No. No.
01:47:51
>> Um, so you just have to accept your limitations, I think, as you get a bit
01:47:54
older. >> Oh, yeah. When when I was at university, we used to we would be out and then we'd
01:47:59
be in the pool at 5:00 in the morning after the night before and like, you know, but I just I couldn't imagine
01:48:04
doing that now. >> This saying youth is wasted on the young. >> It really is.
01:48:08
>> Yeah, it' be really hard. Um, hey, thanks so much for answering those.
01:48:12
They're bloody great and I'm sure there's a lot of people that are going
01:48:14
to get a lot out of them. Yeah, so >> Oh, um, you met uh my my ex and my business partner JJ on the way in.
01:48:21
>> She um she she hates exercise or she says she hates exercise. She's been on
01:48:27
ancestry.com and she's found out she's got the something called there's a name for it,
01:48:32
like a non-athletic gene. >> That's interesting. So she's like, "Dom, you
01:48:38
like running cuz you've got the sprinter gene, but I've got the >> gene. I never knew that was a thing."
01:48:44
>> So she's like, "It's it's not my fault I hate exercise. It's a genetic thing."
01:48:48
What would you say to someone like her? >> Um, some someone that's completely
01:48:51
inactive. >> So So I say this because like if you ever met if you ever met my wife Kate,
01:48:58
most people think she's like mega athletic and she doesn't do that much.
01:49:01
She but she looks really athletic, but she she controls her diet. She has a very good diet.
01:49:06
A thing that I always tell people who really hate exercising, sauna, >> mimics the benefits of
01:49:13
>> mimics the benefits of cardio cardiorespiratory exercise. And there's
01:49:16
lots of benefits to it. So it's the best thing. I just if you really don't like
01:49:21
exercising, if you can sauna five times a week, you have to do it quite regularly. 20 to 30 minutes, 80 to 90°,
01:49:27
it's hard. It's not, you know, you have to make it has to be unpleasantish for
01:49:31
at least the last last 10 minutes. Big benefits. So that's what I would always
01:49:36
recommend to those people. I mean the diet side, get that sorted. But if you can get the diet and do your sauna, it's
01:49:42
a it's a good step forward if you really don't like exercising. >> Yeah. Even if you've got the non
01:49:47
athletic gene, >> I feel like I've got JJ in my ear now saying, "Yeah, but I hate the heat."
01:49:51
>> Yeah. >> Cold water immersion. >> I I started um sawing about 18 months
01:49:57
ago just after um reading and reading so much about the health benefits. It's
01:50:01
been a game changer. I love it. So, we I have a sauna. I have a sauna and an ice
01:50:06
bath at home. Well, obviously me and Art were like two peas in a pod and we're
01:50:09
just like, "Oh, let's go around in the sauna." >> But, um, yeah, I we So, me and we have a
01:50:14
good routine is that we do, you know, we get the kids down and we go in the sauna
01:50:18
every night, 20 minutes, and it's it's great for sleep, good for a little
01:50:21
routine. It's brilliant. So, >> Oh, you got a little home setup? >> Yeah.
01:50:26
>> Oh, it's probably a good way to like um just like de-stress and talk about your
01:50:30
day and communicate as a couple. And it's a great way to connect because you
01:50:34
sit in the sauna. We don't have our phones in there of course and you know you just chat and
01:50:38
>> and it's um sometimes we just it's too hot to chat so we suffering but um but
01:50:44
it's uh it's really good. I recommend it. I mean if obviously it's a bit of a
01:50:49
privilege to have a sauna in your house but >> if if you really can't it's if you
01:50:54
really don't like exercising most people can get their head around that. M oh
01:50:59
yeah it it is a privilege but the um the entry level it's fairly fairly affordable like you can get a little um
01:51:04
a little like two-seater Oslo or something couple of >> grand you can you have to be careful
01:51:09
with like the infrared sauners versus the finished sauners so I wouldn't you
01:51:13
generally don't get this so infrared has its benefits for sure there's there's
01:51:18
there are benefits from infrared in itself but the some of those cardiovascular benefits come from being
01:51:26
very hot and You can't typically get those infrared sauna hot enough >> to really elicit that that same
01:51:33
response. So, and the finished sauners are a little bit more expensive than the um
01:51:39
>> than the infrared sauners cuz the the ones in a box I think typically are
01:51:42
infrared. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The home ones. Well, for anyone that's um that's uh in
01:51:47
central Oakland that wants to um use a sauna, uh join the Hearn Bay Racket Club. That's where I go. It's got um
01:51:53
it's the best. >> It is so hot. Um I was I was sit up there on the the top shelf. First 5
01:51:58
minutes I'm good. After 5 minutes I've got my head down. I'm a broken man.
01:52:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's lots of different So there's ways I always when
01:52:06
I talk to athletes about sauna there's I always say there's like different
01:52:10
training zones of sauna. So you could go like an entry level is you go in in the
01:52:16
morning not having exercise before taking some cold water or even have a cold shower before and going. But you
01:52:23
can make it harder and harder. So you could if you go in like do your training and then go in the sauna and don't drink
01:52:31
during really hard massive response though. So there's different levels of sauna that you can take to make it
01:52:39
harder or easier. >> Why why would you not hydrate? >> So there's a well it's more from an
01:52:44
acclamation response is that there's a there's a bit more of an acclamation
01:52:48
response in terms of the ability to cope with heat when you don't hydrate during
01:52:52
because it also makes it easier. So it's sort of is the same it's it's the same
01:52:56
with training like training is a is training is always a dose response relationship. So if you train the more
01:53:02
you train >> the faster you get you know or the more you adapt right and it's the same with
01:53:06
sauna. So the more you stress the bigger the adaptation. So if you make it the harder it is like like really hot versus
01:53:14
when you've core temperature is already high you've just exercised it makes it
01:53:17
much harder and then you'll get a bigger response. >> So brilliant. >> Yeah.
01:53:21
>> Hey thanks for that. One more card. Home stretch conclusion. We're at We're the
01:53:27
last 5ks of the Iron Man. How's it been? You do you enjoy doing these podcasts?
01:53:31
>> I love them. Yeah. Yeah. I love talking about this kind of thing. >> Yeah. I You've been on quite a few. I've
01:53:37
listened to quite a few of them. Some of them are very geeky. This one's probably
01:53:39
very base level for you. It hasn't been too dumbed down. >> No, I've enjoyed it. It's been more it's
01:53:44
been more personal than I'm you know usually it's like lots of like academics
01:53:49
and studies and to the nitty-gritty but it's cool >> more about my experiences so that's
01:53:55
nice. >> Yeah. How how do you personally define success now compared to other stages of
01:54:00
your career? >> Um how I I suppose I suppose what I mean is um like you you know your goals are
01:54:07
sort of different now like you're not chasing world records you know you're
01:54:10
not chasing podium finishes. >> Yeah. I think you know when you become a dad and you're a father I think I think
01:54:17
your your everything's around your kids isn't it really for me it's like I'm
01:54:22
like success for me is trying to provide the best life I possibly can for them really um with that businesses and and
01:54:30
hoping and giving those opportunities that you know I definitely don't want them to live live like a money coddle
01:54:35
life with that spoil but I want them to be able to have the opportunities that they that they can have if if they're
01:54:41
available. So >> I think that would be my idea of a of success. >> Not molly codle them but but also
01:54:47
protect them from Kelloggs and >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Kelloggs in the big orange and yellow.
01:54:54
>> Exactly. But that's I think that's the I think that would be the main things and
01:54:57
and >> I obviously I think it's important that everyone has their own personal
01:55:01
successes and I still have a lot to achieve. I saw I I I really like goals because I feel like a per a phys I have
01:55:08
business goals but a physical goal is something is really sets my having that in place sets up my other things really
01:55:16
well and I don't like not I'm such a competitive person I don't like not
01:55:19
having competitions in my in my view >> so um so I still have those those personal goals
01:55:25
>> but um with the physical stuff who are you comp are you competing against
01:55:28
yourself now or are you still trying to compete against others so for example Hierrox um which is your your you know
01:55:32
your thing at the moment. Uh are are you trying to to win or are you trying to you better the time that you did last
01:55:39
time? >> Both. I mean I'm always booming the both to go together, right? So I've not been
01:55:44
beaten yet in a high rocks in my age group. So um I mean we broke the um me and my partner, we broke the world
01:55:50
record for the over 40s in the doubles in Melbourne. >> Incredible. >> So we uh we hopefully me and me and so
01:55:58
he's uh from Australia. We're going to go to the World Championships and
01:56:01
hopefully win the World Championships in the doubles in our age group. But I mean, it's all about age groups now. I
01:56:06
mean, I wish I do kind of wish that I was who knows. It's all hindsight's a
01:56:10
glorious thing, isn't it? But I always think, oh, maybe I wish I discovered Hy
01:56:14
Rocks when I was a bit younger and it was around because I do quite enjoy it. But
01:56:19
>> you're so competitive. I I even I heard you on another podcast and they they
01:56:23
introduced you as like a world a world champion and you you interrupted them and said age group age group.
01:56:28
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a bit of a difference though. A group world
01:56:32
champion. Yeah. >> Um, if you could go back Oh, you may have even just answered that. Um, if you
01:56:38
could go back and give your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be? >> Um, is there anything you do
01:56:44
differently? >> Not really. I think um I think I wouldn't be I think I I think
01:56:53
I mean I I feel like I tried too hard in my academics when I was really young and
01:57:00
I don't think it makes that much difference to be honest. >> What do you mean? Well, I I I think like
01:57:05
those early days of schooling, you can just relax a bit more. And I I I really That's
01:57:10
>> terrible advice. I I really I really like got a bit >> Yeah. a bit stressed out by like exams
01:57:18
and stuff like that. And um >> Oh, you mean sort of like secondary school age?
01:57:21
>> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think it gets more important, but I think in the early
01:57:24
days, I think you can relax a bit more. Just chill, >> you know? Maybe. I don't know whe that's
01:57:29
good advice or not. >> Yeah. I was pretty much the the same. I was consumed. consumed by stress like
01:57:34
during the important exams here like yeah it's called NCAA now it was called
01:57:38
school certificate when I was there >> but you sort of think [ __ ] if if I don't
01:57:42
pass this my my world's over my world's crumbling and you look back and it's
01:57:46
like chill >> yeah exactly but I think maybe maybe there's that but I think um
01:57:53
>> I listened to um I listened to your podcast with the New Zealand's um David
01:57:57
Gogggins >> oh Jamie Milam yeah you know and he was he was a really good podcast, but I was
01:58:03
thinking, wow, like he's got such a good backstory, you know, hard upbringing and
01:58:07
unfortunately I doesn't have any of that. So like privileged upbringing, nothing
01:58:12
nothing really. I had a, you know, nothing really to shout about on that. So >> lovely parents love middle class.
01:58:18
>> Exactly. So but um >> Well, but somehow you've managed to um you find the the hunger or drive,
01:58:25
whatever you want to call it, to build resilience. >> Yeah. The the other people have it
01:58:29
forced upon them. >> Yeah. I don't and I don't know where that one comes from. I think like
01:58:35
>> I mean when we just we I mean I grew up in Yorkshire and we were just got it
01:58:40
where the brownies are from too and it was cold and we just exercised outside and going amongst it you know and I
01:58:47
don't know don't know whether that was part of it but I remember some pretty
01:58:50
cold bike rides >> around Saddleworth Moore and whatnot and um but yeah I it was a
01:58:59
I can't I can't really think of what would be what I'm just I just I enjoy
01:59:03
competition though. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I can tell. >> Yeah, >> I can tell. I don't think that'll ever
01:59:08
leave you. >> No. >> Um Yeah, >> I see him. I see him in my boy now as
01:59:11
well. It's Can you >> Yeah, definitely. >> Yeah. How How does it make you feel? Do
01:59:14
you think Oh, like a sense of pride or you think, "Oh, >> I definitely I mean I want him to be I
01:59:19
want him to be >> um competitive." Yeah. You know, >> you I think it's uh I think it's a good
01:59:25
thing. So, >> I think it's a good thing. Yeah. But like I was talking about before with my
01:59:30
mom at the Paris Marathon, like her getting upset at, you know, potentially not breaking 5 hours. Uh I Yeah, I I
01:59:37
don't know. I suppose it's a good it's a it's a there's two sides to it. Like
01:59:41
it's it's a good thing, but also >> if you don't I just think but with that
01:59:45
com with that competitiveness comes it comes drive, right? And it makes you want to achieve certain it just means
01:59:52
you want to achieve more, you know? I think it's important. So, >> what do you think your best and worst
01:59:57
habits are? >> Or if Kate was here, what would she say? >> Have to ask her. Um, my my best habit is
02:00:06
um consistency, I guess. I know routine. I'm very routine person. I think is
02:00:13
routine a habit. >> Is being routine a habit? >> Yeah. So, I'm very I'm very routine and
02:00:19
I think that helps with a lot of of um of of stuff. My worst habit probably too much exercise.
02:00:32
>> No sense there. >> I do think like I do think I do feel like I'm a I do have that like mild
02:00:39
endurance addiction. I think it is a you know I really need it. So maybe that's
02:00:44
also can be a a bad thing in some respects. >> I don't know. I think it's a good
02:00:48
addiction. It's like we talked about at the very beginning about the word obsessed.
02:00:51
>> Um yeah, obsessed and addiction. They're sort of in the same >> same sort of ecosystem. They can be good
02:00:57
things, I think. >> For sure. >> Um what are you most afraid of? >> The future.
02:01:04
I mean I mean I wouldn't say I'm afraid of the future, but I think like I was I
02:01:08
was saying this I was saying the other I was talking to my friend the other day about this and and I think like if if
02:01:15
life wasn't now and you knew this this was life for the rest of your your days,
02:01:19
it's great, right? But you you just never know what's around the corner. I
02:01:23
think you know who knows. But I think that's uh that would be it's not really
02:01:29
a true fear. >> No, cuz you just roll with it. Um but it's crazy how fast everything's
02:01:35
changing. >> Eh, >> yeah. Um in terms of AI, how has that impacted you?
02:01:41
>> Uh it's definitely has I've I've seen a few with my coaching business. I've I
02:01:46
think I've seen a bit of an impact. So with my coaching business, we have like
02:01:49
online courses, one-on-one coaching. So that's like, you know, we have very specific one-on-one coaching with a
02:01:55
number of different coaches. And then we have like an online platform that's more
02:01:58
of a communitybased thing within the triathlon space. And I say that's taken
02:02:02
a hit from AI because there's more AI coaching based platforms around now. Um
02:02:07
but you know the one-on-one stuff, the human interaction, I wouldn't say it's
02:02:10
changed at all. >> Um >> what do you think of um AI? Say someone that's listening to this wants to run
02:02:15
their first marathon and they put like a a good prompt into chat GPT. Do you like
02:02:20
that or would you say don't go near >> don't go near it? >> I think I mean it it's reasonable. It's
02:02:26
not bad. It's not too bad for you. I mean it's not brilliant but for someone
02:02:30
who's doing that >> it's not personalized is it? No, it's not personalized and it doesn't give you
02:02:35
I mean training, you know, I talked about the stimulus and response. The stimulus is so important in terms of the
02:02:42
intensity and how you how you're doing that and making sure your training is
02:02:45
demand driven. And what what I mean by that is that it needs to be if you're if
02:02:50
you're doing a if you're doing a marathon, you're not going to do much
02:02:53
bench press. You know, if you're doing a powerlifting, you're not going to do
02:02:56
much running. And so you you have to understand I don't think chat GBT is quite there in understanding where the
02:03:01
intensities lie of of the the event and then the intensities the very specific intensity regulation for the individual
02:03:09
to do the right training. >> If uh Kate, your wife um or your kids or your best friends were in the next room
02:03:18
listening to this talking about you behind your back, what three words would you like them to use to describe you?
02:03:23
>> Oh gosh, that's hard. You asked a lot of tough questions, Dom, I have to say. Do
02:03:28
you ask these are the same questions you ask for everyone? >> Yeah, more or less.
02:03:33
Now, this this one came about um you must know Doo Allen. >> Yes, of course.
02:03:38
>> Yeah. So, I had Dooall on the podcast. >> Yeah. >> He was talking about one of those
02:03:41
Godzone adventure races he was doing and his team was Simone Simone Meer who's
02:03:45
also been on the podcast and Richie Mccor uh the greatest all black of all time. and he said a game they were
02:03:50
playing in the middle of the night to keep everyone awake and stimulated was Richie was asking everyone what three
02:03:55
words they'd like people to use about them at their at their funeral. Okay. >> And one of Richie's words for himself
02:04:00
was um integrity and Doug had only just been you met him a day earlier and had been doing this event with him and he
02:04:06
said it's funny because that's one word that he would have thought would suit
02:04:09
Richie. >> Yeah. Right. Okay. >> So what about for you Dr. Dan, please?
02:04:12
>> So So are these words that I would like to think they would say? >> Yes.
02:04:16
>> Okay. Okay. I I quite like this question because it's um on the surface it seems
02:04:20
kind of trivial but uh if once you've got those words you can sort of reverse
02:04:24
engineer your life. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I'd like to think one of would be
02:04:28
protective. >> I mean I like to think I'm very protective of my tribe you know the
02:04:32
people around me the people who are close to me. I think that's uh that's
02:04:36
one word. Um I think there's no other the word but I wouldn't say actionable but what I mean by that
02:04:46
is my like the actions I have my act I don't say no it's not about what I say it's about the actions that
02:04:54
you do I think you know beliefs versus beliefs versus behaviors and I think my I like to think that my behaviors um
02:05:03
show my beliefs there's not really a word But you know, I like to think I know what you mean. You know what I
02:05:09
mean? >> Um, >> and then, um, the last one would be, >> what I like to think.
02:05:23
Maybe it's a tough one for the last one. Hey. Um, yeah, I'm I'm thinking like honest that
02:05:32
that sort of word >> like integrity. >> Yeah, it's like integrity, I guess. But
02:05:35
I didn't want to use that word because you just said it. But >> that's all right.
02:05:39
>> Yeah. But you know, I think like um >> it's a great word. >> Yeah. Like I think I I always remember
02:05:44
there's um you know the you want to behave someone I think I was listening to another podcast. Oh yeah. It was um
02:05:52
Marius was on you know Marius from he was on MXT New Zealand. He went on the Betw beers podcast. Yes. And he said he
02:06:00
said something in that is like behave like your son is watching. And I think that's what I'm talking about the
02:06:04
behaviors that that sort of that sort of thing is that I always like to think that whatever my behaviors are always
02:06:10
true and honest and and behaving with the right actions. >> I love that. Well, thanks for putting so
02:06:17
much thought into that answer. >> Yeah, it's a tough one. Are you proud of
02:06:20
yourself? >> Um, this is a difficult question for an Englishman to answer.
02:06:24
>> Very difficult question for answer. >> Yeah, I think English are even worse
02:06:29
than Kiwis at answering this. We we uh it it takes a great deal deal of um difficulty for a lot of us to you know
02:06:37
admit that we are >> yeah I mean I would say I would I think yeah I'm I'm definitely I would say I
02:06:45
mean I've achieved things I wanted to achieve and I'm proud of those things
02:06:49
and >> and um I often think I wouldn't want to be anyone else other than me you know so I
02:06:56
mean that that's a good thing right so that makes I'm proud proud of my proud
02:07:00
of that side. Um but yeah, um obviously I want to achieve more, but from what I've done so far, it's um it's been
02:07:08
good. And then like I think that with the fact with I know always I always bring back to the family and that's just
02:07:14
that's my biggest achievement is you know having having a a healthy family and they're so vibrant and
02:07:23
>> happy. So that's that's the biggest achievement. >> What a great place to end it.
02:07:29
looking forward to see see what you do in the future. Um, you're not even middle-aged yet. You're still a young
02:07:34
man. >> 43. Is that not middle-aged? >> I don't know. 60 that call themselves
02:07:39
middle-aged. And I'm thinking to myself, well, if you live to 120. >> Yeah. What's middle age? Yeah.
02:07:45
>> Sounds like a very big band. But no, you've still got a lot of um a lot of
02:07:48
mountains to climb. >> I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. No, thanks for having me on. It's been awesome.
02:07:52
>> Thanks, Dr. Dan PL. This has been a great episode. I've really enjoyed it
02:07:55
and I know a lot of people are going to get a lot out of this. Thank you so much.
02:07:58
>> Perfect. Thanks very much.