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[Music] Mike Chan welcome to my podcast thank you Dom good to be here mate the honor
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is absolutely all mine I'm um a massive massive fan of yours and your work as a
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as a matter of fact I went into my uh storage locker um yesterday in anticipation for this and I found
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something and I wasn't sure if I still had this but it's one of these things
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I've been hanging on to give me a look check this out uh that was the 270 oh 93 anniversary tour no I wasn't
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on that tour no nigal great Ser is down there he was the guy that took over for me in 77 yeah how come how come you went
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on the reunion tour I had a phobic disorder which in the end I succumbed to so I had about 4 and 3/4 years in the
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band I used to deal with this problem by taking tranquilizers because I told my father I had stage right he's a
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doctor but I didn't have stage five at all I loved being on the stage Fact one
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place and I I have talked to other musicians about this when I opened out or opened up or spoke out is that the
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stages where you are safe but anyway I had about 3 years of tranquilizers and in the end I decided that I'd lo I was
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losing that battle so I left the band yeah well we we can get into that in um much more detail as much detail as you
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want actually later on but because um you and your book has sharli turn um you write about it and it's um got I I was
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reing reading your book last night and I like tears in my face it's hero just
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this um the hell that you lived in uh with this un unknown undiagnosed disorder for many years it was it was
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awful but I um I bring this poster out because I would have thought by 1993 you would have had more of a grasp
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on it more of a more of a handle on it I did but by then the spin had been and gone so they broke up in '
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84 and Nigel you know Nigel is the official bass player for spines and I'm the guy that plays if Nigel can't be
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found uh but you know I love my time with that band and and so some people say You must regret leaving but I felt I
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had no choice so but it's still and as nol one said spin isn't something you
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can just leave and walk away from you it's always in you fact recently we we
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all met up at nilin studio and did some playing together of the old songs it was
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wonderful how good okay oh there is um so much in the rich tapestry of your life to talk about um I did a lot of
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reading and anticipation of this coming in and when when you're a man like yourself there's um a lot of Articles
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you've done and a lot of things you've said going back many many years so some
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of these um may have been correct at the time and they're incorrect now but let's
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run through them so you're a you're a 2m word guy you often wake up at 2: a.m.
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and do Wordle how ironic you are an investigative and I did it last night at 12:30 a.m. and I did it in
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4: I in fact I waited till midnight I wonder how it works around the world but yeah midnight is a bang
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worldle W's great yeah surely a doctor would say to you like if you got you know if you wake up in the middle of the
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night it's not the best thing for you to have that bright screen in your face too
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bad um you're a lover of cream and jam Donuts but you only allow yourself to
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have like one every 5 years yeah well we live in Mount Eden Road now and there's a I call it kind of like a
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workman's canteen you know those cabinets all like yeah yeah yeah like an old they have these cream and cranberry
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Jam filled pancakes well so forget the donut now it's pancake time for me love them I
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reckon when you you have one more than one pancake every 5 years though oh sh you no I would have a pancake once or
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twice a week oh good on you um huge fan of Don mcglashan love Don mcgan I'm a
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lyric man so you know I've always P paid a lot of attention to lyrics and Don is
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the master of telling us about life in New Zealand I think they are quite focused on New Zealand not just humanity
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and human relationships and boy girls or familial stories it makes me really feel at home
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listening to them to him no matter how tragic his LCS get like no telling when was this song about a guy on a boat out
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in the ocean and something must have happened because I think the Mast is broken and he just sits there dreaming
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that the footprints he might see on the beach all those miles away has and he's
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going to get back but we suspect he never does he's do you have like a favorite
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era of mlan like is it from LA M Birds all they all have their wonderful Peak moments Andy is truly
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incredible Andy story about his brother yeah no muttonbird solo albums you know they're all wonderful yeah
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Andy's probably one of my favorite songs of all time and Inc what else uh Na n is
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great it's a beautiful song even tomorrow night some of the more light-hearted front lawn songs beautiful
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well that's something that's some common ground we've got we're both uh excellent
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um another you always have a tranquilizer in your pocket for an emergency is this still on flight only
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flying right it's the one place that you can't suddenly decide not to be in or on
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cuz you'd have to jump out of the plane window but on a boat you can say to yourself oh I can just dive off and swim
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back on a train I can just pull a cord in a car I can just stop walking I can just stop but the entrapment of an
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airplane a lot of people like when I came out and uh with that uh series on TV of I guess you'd call them
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advertisements or something like minees like mine and I talked about um agobia and quite a few not when I say
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quite a few maybe about five or six well-known musicians got hold of me quietly we went up and and they talked
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about how they have the same problem but the stage is the safe place uh and that airplane's terrify
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them yeah the I was going to say the funny thing about that but it's not really funny at all but the like for for
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um most new zealanders I think or most people in general like being on a stage in front of people would be the most
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terrifying thing imaginable but I know it's weird okay we yeah we will get into that
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um uh later on in the chat because I feel like you don't necessarily get the
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credit not that you were ever about the credit but you know in terms of um high-profile people that spoke early
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about mental health you know you've got the Mike KS and the sjn Kuan feel like
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you don't necessarily get the you know the credit or the recognition you deserve for speaking so openly about it
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at a time when it wasn't spoken about openly I don't mind yeah the thing is
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I'm not embarrassed by it no and it's something it was all my own fault but I
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we I have in the 80s just by being aware of it and people asking questions about
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it it's pretty much in our genes my sister had phobic disorder and I won't go into all the others but I'm
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not the only one in the Chun family to have had a phobic disorder yeah didn't
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you have a a grandfather like Granddad bunny Uncle bunny Uncle Jack when I put came out with that book
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called uh [ __ ] what's it called uh Tales of M Madness and mirth it didn't sound any anything but I
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did do it because I my editor an Clifford said give a voice to agobia because in the spadin um story of
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spreadin which was my first book I don't call it anything I don't even talk about
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having a phobic disorder as to why I left the band but um yeah and I was sort of
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wavered there from the answer to whatever we were talking about where was I Dum um oh yeah what was the question
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um uh oh you're not getting the same sort of level of recognition as say um Mike King and John Ken yeah not that it
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was ever about that and then the thing is I'm never going to run away from it
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so if anyone wants to talk about it I will and people with it if they come across somebody like me who's done
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is can be seen to be talking about it they will get a hold of me you know so there probably have been about 20 30
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people who have met with me to talk about their problem and how you how I dealt with
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it that's cool uh yeah that must be very satisfying that that through your own
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harrowing experiences you can make life the journey a bit easier for some others
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it can be incredibly emotionally overwhelming I could tell you about that the bank you want to hear about the bank
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bank story I love the bank story I'm an a que to go to the teller at the bank
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remember tellers mhm and I got to her and she looked at me and said I want to thank you for going on television with
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the like M's like mine and I said are you okay and she said no I'm not well the
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queue Behind Me grew as we both cried and started talking in the bank I don't know what the bank manager
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thought but she I feel had spoken for the first time I am like you there's something wrong and now I've said it or
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shown it to be real and uh take it from there and I I felt really good about it didn't didn't cost me a cent all I had
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to do was just ask if she's okay oh that's wonderful isn't that powerful it's like a vulnerability
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exchange yeah exactly um okay a couple of light-hearted ones um you you met Michael Jackson yeah
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Mikey J I met him in 77 in a um a radio station Syndicate syndicated you know blah blah blah called The Magic Mountain
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I think it was AR of timin uh Linda Steiner the Crystalis record um PR minder that was trading
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with us Mikey and Jermaine were coming along the corridor and she stopped and said oh
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Michael Jermaine got to meet the boys from New Zealand so I shook his hand that's like shaking hand with
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water very strange I looked him in the eye he would have been 17 so he was about one or two years away from in fact
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he was two years away from don't stop till he get enough I should have asked him if I
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could join his band there was already enough um are you you won a $2 bit with Jinder did she ever pay up well she
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believes that part of that bet was I would give her this is a another criteria I would
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give her a bottle of lindow for something so she's waiting for the bottle of lindow before she's going to
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go off and give me the $2 so I it's all just fall to risk but it was a lot of fun at the time these
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are B Linda and $2 it's a very lowlevel bet what was the bet that you you thought she would be PR Minister before
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40 was yeah well she was a guest at our um award show the play at strange award show at the BackBeat bar and kroot and
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she she came along and she spoke presented the peace song award because we have a it's fact it's a whole
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competition now the peace song and she spoke and then I said before she took the
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stage okay we have a a new member of parliament today and I'm going to ask her to present this award her name is
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Jinder adun and she will be prime minister before she's 40 cuz I knew she was 38
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and she came up to me she said that's a big ass mic kind of trying to whisper it but it was ringing out
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through the PA system I said okay okay everybody please welcome Jinder ardun the new MP for labor and I betat you $2
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looking her in the eye that you will be the prime Minister before year 40 when I
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was announced when win he made his famous um decision I'm going with labor I sent her a text I saying you owe me
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$2 it was a lot of fun she was I had a lot of time for just we used to meet every Christmas at daa's wine bar and
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jvo Road and she was fantastic we talk about all sorts of things Mormon church all sorts of things you still in touch
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now no no it all fell off the sort of The Happening rails let's call them when
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she became prime minister and had to suffer the vibe in this country even people that I knew and believed
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in decided that she was this and she was that and she was this now they're actually even louder than she were with
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her it's a strange we're not going to talk politics no no it gets very very
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nasty with politics doesn't it I think the whole covid thing had a huge point
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to play yeah you could be right yeah um gez there's a couple more of these little sort of like fun trivial bits
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here let's go okay um uh there was a time where the Oakland Mir Band rock concerts because of you
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and your band yeah s some band played at the Oakland Town Hall in 1979 and a lot of people said what are
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you doing booking the town hall you know it's hard enough to get a full house at
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the wind Castle Pub but I don't know we just we had done a lot of lunchtime concerts at
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schools and so at a lunchtime concert you get on stage everyone's got their sandwiches and they're rocking away but
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you only hear about six songs and they've all got to go back to class poor bastards and so the tickets just
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rocketed out of the box office because they wanted to see a whole show and there were 1,800 people in that room
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in a Flash and they just wouldn't stay in their seats it was such a joy to behold
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up there on that stage because I keep to me the town hall is all about the Beatles of 64 Rolling Stone 65 The Who
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66 I think 67 all these famous Feet Shoes had been on that stage and so I would stand on every imprint yeah it's a
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magical environment but yeah know uh Sally somebody at the herald took it on to really spread the word how the uh the
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council wasn't going to allow anyone to stand up what a laugh it's hilarious you look
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back now it's quite it's adorable really isn't it ad a great word for it it's
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adorable um split 's first ever recording session in early 1973 was to record a jingle for Suzuki motorbikes
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let Suzuki blow your mind let Suzuki blow your mind it's on it's on New Zealand on
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screen I don't tell anyone actually I'm probably telling everyone now and you
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can listen to it and look at it it's full of guys running motorcycles you know let Suzuki blowing and Tim sings it
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it's funny you got to see it actually uh but the best one was and we haven't had the
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heart for Tim's sake really to to let it go out I don't think it's out it's a
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radio a for um tiny tote eyeliner a real Eyota new from X Factor Eyes Are Made For Love try
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something that is new that song that that melody in ended up I think in the song Maybe on the
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first spin album yeah so we did an eyeliner ad thank you very much Dom's Fallen to the floor I might
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have to pick him up it's just amazing I suppose it's just you know you just young kids at this
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time and you didn't even know where unck Buck coming from so it's desperation we
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got $100 each we were just we were high we were in a studio steings on our mascot Studios yeah we just really
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wanted to make an album and go to England that was all we wanted to do and you're um you're a happy and frequent
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crier uh that's a quote I am a crier yeah I'm a big CER in fact one movie recently I almost felt I have
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to leave the theater because of the explosive outpouring of grief what was it oh it was um the one about you know
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thing me Bob the classical conductor who wrote the music to Westside Story Westside Story I don't know oh yes you
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do and so do I but I can't remember it you know ber bear h no it's not ber bear
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it's l Lenard Bernstein okay have you seen the movie about Lenard Bernstein it's called oh it's a one weird anyway
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it it just probably because of the life I've Liv it just completely T me it's a bit like Tim Finn was talking
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about the movie 20 steps from the front of the stage I think it's called you
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know about that one no it's features the lives of and and conversations with backing singers the
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ones who were 20 ft back oh okay he was talking about he just Bal and Bal and baled were you have you always been
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emotional or have you found as you got older uh no I think I always have been y I'm
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trying to remember if my father my father is a big cry but usually about cricket
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yeah true happy tears about Cricket or all you had to do was turn look at him and say Don Bradman he
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go don 298 against um Australia in 1939 that's amazing oh one thing I noticed in in your book you you refer to
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your parents by their name you called them um vaugh and Jerry is is that what you you called them gr how come you call
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them volterian not Mom and Dad I don't know yeah unusual it just seemed normal I called
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Von Vonnie Vonnie and Jerry maybe I wanted a sort of know a sound that was similar for the two of them rather than
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Mom and Dad I don't I don't know the answer to that but you so a Vonnie and Jerry did
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you your kids call you like Dad or I'm m m yeah which which has spread around the
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family from uh my Dar Bridget my wife who calls me m m yeah wow 's okay with me Em's just all
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right with me um I read that you this is a quote from you you still are playing music and
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you play piano alone guitar after drinking and bass to Big crowds basically is yeah so I only really want
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to play the Bas guitar on a big stage with the huge crowd for me it's what my
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dream was when I first thought of being a famous pop star which was when I saw a h days night and
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I was 12 and at the age of 12 you can have all the dreams you want and I was uh in a
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picture theater in Wellington on a class trip we went down there to see the All Blacks play
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Australia in fact I was sitting once with sir me and I said and he I said first time I saw you play was a 1964
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athetic Park against aadia he looked at me with the sort of strange look and I said and I'm sorry you lost
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228 he leaned forward quite close to my face and said you're being very generous
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M we lost 20 to5 wow he knew and I I I don't know M anyway uh yeah um can't
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remember what that was about but it was very exciting to talk about it what was I saying well we um oh you were talking
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about yeah still up playing music piano alone guitar after drinking piano I mean
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the family hear it but I've never really there was one song Titus on mental notes where I
00:22:06
played the piano with the band but generally it's a perfect thing to play alone what is it is it a
00:22:12
cathartic thing for you is it yeah yeah I need to think about these things so I said like I went into the school music
00:22:21
library at ockland University and looked up Rak manof and there was a two piano score I thought ah I'll pick the bits
00:22:32
that I like and so I photocopied it and ran out the door didn't pay for anything
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and I I started playing bits of these rack manof second piano canudo and seon so that
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Adventure is where the piano rests for me to [Music] go uh the base is I just like that big
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and loud and and for me the love I had for the members of spin is all professed really in a way by my
00:23:07
playing of the Bas and I was also lucky enough to be in a in a band like that at a time when you
00:23:15
wrote your own part so no one ever came up to me and said ah Stranger Than Fiction I've got a good idea for what
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you can play on the base I I would just stick my hand over your mouth and say I don't want to be told anything what to
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play all of us were the same so at least I had I felt I had a really strong creative input in terms of what notes
00:23:35
and what motifs Etc I played on the Bas and the acoustic guitar I love it but I'm not very good at it but my son
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Barney is fantastic on it so here and I will sit down and play waterl Sunset The
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Kinks song and if we have three or four beers at the same time we'll move on to
00:23:52
other songs as well it's great it's a great accompanyment instrument yeah
00:23:56
great sort of bonding thing yeah yeah yeah it's funny funny you um I just picked up on something you said before
00:24:01
about um you know everyone in Split Ends just um sort of creating their own part
00:24:06
for each song um that seems to go all the way back in your book you talk about you know some of the early rehearsals
00:24:12
maybe even before it was called split ends at your parents house and your dad would sit at the top of the stairs and
00:24:17
watch sort of an amazement and uh wonder how you could do this without communicating with
00:24:23
words I know yeah uh he was very taken with Phil judge lyrics uh so when mental an came out he
00:24:32
wanted to copy straight away so he could just have those lyrics in his possession
00:24:37
especially the song time for a change you know you B so you were a blind man he was crying he just how old was he
00:24:41
when he wrote that 18 or 19 [ __ ] that's phenomenal I know like do you you look
00:24:47
back now as a man in your 70s and think how did a teenage boy write that exactly
00:24:51
well at the time you want the story I'd love it so we played at Levi Saloon the
00:24:57
rock and roll nightclub down the road but this was a folk in Blues night so somehow or other my brother Jeffrey got
00:25:04
us a gig and so we all turn up we've learned um three songs and we hop up on
00:25:10
stage and play them we hop off the stage and go back to the seats and Barry Coburn God bless him who was running the
00:25:18
show later became our man well actually and he said you only played three songs oh we only know three songs he
00:25:27
said well play them again again so up we go and play them again we just felt like
00:25:32
King Kong and we kept going back to Levis to play in one show Phil looked at us and said can you guys
00:25:41
leave the stage miles and I are going to do a song that we've done we've written
00:25:46
and he sits there with his acusa guitar playing all these strange Mo strange formations miles Golding our violin
00:25:53
player had obviously written this long beautiful outro to the thing and it really really stunned the room MH
00:26:04
you act as though you were blind man who's crying crying about all the virgins that are dying it was a magical
00:26:11
moment luckily he didn't mind having the band join him the next time around which
00:26:18
we did I mean strange uh time for change would would be featured in every spin in
00:26:25
show in the last 40 50 years yeah yeah it's really still the test of time you know it's a so I wonder that as
00:26:33
someone that's doesn't have a musical bone in his body I'm guessing there's a
00:26:36
lot of a lot of guys in their 70s that wrote songs when they were in their teens early 20s and they look back now
00:26:41
and sort of you know their toes probably curl a bit of some of the lyrics they wrote back then but that's a very mature
00:26:48
song I think Jazz was a greaty yeah all right okay so let's go let's go the way back so you're at
00:26:55
Sacred Heart Sacred Heart College um and you you're you're not a music guy you're
00:26:59
a sports guy you and Tim fer and uh well see the thing is life at Sacred Heart College wasn't
00:27:07
really a means to an end in terms of being in a band so Tim was a great singer he killed it on the stage but he
00:27:16
never wrote a song I never well I did write a song which I have never played to anybody my brother Jeffrey was
00:27:23
writing some songs but in essence we just played covers so Sacred Heart College was a adventure on the stage I called it
00:27:33
the magical playground there we were on the stage and we dreamed of being Beatles I
00:27:40
think we tried writing songs and we realized that being being a beetle one you can just buy the boots and buy the
00:27:47
suit and you can just grow your hair and you can learn how to play that instrument that's okay but writing a
00:27:54
song Jesus and if in fact if Phil Jud had turned around in napia and gone to vuni I don't think there ever would have
00:28:05
been a SP he walked in and just all this stuff started to happen so you you met Tim
00:28:14
Finn I I think the story goes that um he was leaving the principal's office and
00:28:18
you were walking in is that when you they called him the guy that our parents gave money to what do you call that a
00:28:27
school okay the school Moneybags man the school dean maybe or no he had a name he
00:28:32
had a probably in the Maris Maris Brotherhood he had he was specific anyway so uh brother
00:28:41
Alexis I'd gone in with Mom and Dad Von and jery and as I came out Tim was going
00:28:46
in might be the other way around but really there's nothing to that although I knew of him because his
00:28:52
cousin Simon Downey was a close friend of mine then we both this is we're still
00:28:59
in form two and we both he sat next to me actually in the assemblage of 12year olds setting a
00:29:08
scholarship exam to get free boarding he bloody got it Tim got the scholarship and I got
00:29:16
nothing maybe I've always felt insecure next to him because of that no just tricking but you so we we sort of had a
00:29:25
link yeah eye to ey from the first time we walked in the school Gates it's yeah it's amazing so you were
00:29:33
like 12 at the time when you first met and then when did just when did you realize when did you become like friends
00:29:38
or when did you realize there was some well at at boarding school everyone's a
00:29:41
kind of friend yeah I don't remember ever having an altercation or an enemy or
00:29:47
anything but we were very much well I it must have been a moment probably in fourth form that's year 11 fourth was it
00:29:58
10 hopeless at the years it's year 10 14 years old um where they had the the government had
00:30:08
said we need more culture we need more mus culture at schools but we're not going to have it in the
00:30:14
curriculum every school basically has to have an hour class in the week where they listen to songs and get to know and
00:30:21
appreciate music wow so brother Ivan who we called Guff would bring in okay boys
00:30:27
sit down keep quite I've got the new Bob Dylan album and he would play three
00:30:32
songs of the new Bob Dylan album well in late 66 my brother Jeffrey had been given the revolver album by The
00:30:40
Beatles And it completely dominated their lives over the summer holidays of 6667 when we got back I would negotiate
00:30:49
with brother rvan that he could have a few songs but we had to have some too and then I wonder if this was fifth film
00:30:59
probably was I said to brother Ian listen instead of just listening to records do you mind of Tim and I I call
00:31:08
him Tim even though his name's Bri Yeah Tim and I go on stage and sing the boys
00:31:14
some songs he looked at me like oh you precocious little twit but he was good he was great and up we hopped and we did
00:31:21
to love somebody and probably yesterday and we love the BS well Tim sing like a bird I hadn't really heard him he was
00:31:31
kind of hiding behind the piano but it was very very clear to everyone in the hall that this guy was a beautiful
00:31:40
singer and that's when I thought oh I'm going to hold on to his coattails and
00:31:44
never let go that's when that happened 1967 is is that um just being incredibly
00:31:50
modest on your part no yeah oh you must something I play I play the piano with the Bas yeah and you so you got into Bas
00:31:58
because of um from what I can GA you love The Beetles and you saw McCartney play that
00:32:03
and you I want to do that but also it looked easy it's only one it's only one note at the time one
00:32:12
note at the time so you could [Music] go anyone can do that not anyone can do it exceptionally
00:32:22
well or to the level that you had so so so then what so you and you and ter why don't you end up just forming a
00:32:28
partnership with just the two of you how how do you end up in a in a in a massive
00:32:32
band together probably because I was quite strongly emotionally linked to my brother MH Jeffrey who hopped on the
00:32:42
drums and became a a great drummer he was in the first sort of 15 months of spreadin and I think n kumby will tell
00:32:53
you that the best drummer sp's ever had was Jeff Chan he was on that beginning
00:32:58
of the ends album It's Jeffrey's drum playing and it's really really good so
00:33:02
there was Jeffrey on drums I was on Bas Tim was either singing and one song he played Bas get your motor
00:33:11
running uh it was mental um it's quite isn't it quite funny it's probably like
00:33:16
a little um fun fact that not many people know but before long before there were two fins and splittin there were
00:33:21
two CHS that's quite true yeah yeah oh yeah so um so your brother Jeffrey you
00:33:28
this is going further down the track now it was you that suggested that Neil joins the band I did and at the time so
00:33:35
Neil was how old at the time like he was like 5 years younger than you guys six years younger than he was six I think
00:33:39
because yeah six and at the time Neil was um Neil was in your brother's band
00:33:45
yeah I know I still feel bad about it how how award was I think I'd reached almost the end of the line dealing with
00:33:54
agobia I had flown from Chicago down to Oakland to ask alist Rell of space walls if he would leave and or
00:34:04
just become the guitar player for spinnings because Phil Jud had left the band I was still in the band you know
00:34:12
and uh aliser said no he didn't want to be our guitar player said oh [ __ ] it
00:34:17
this you know what are we going to do with then I saw Neil play with Jeffrey in after hours so were called flew back and
00:34:25
I said you should get Neil he can sing he can write songs as my sort of plead to be let go
00:34:33
and so after ringing Neil and Neil said I I think I should ask my mom and dad first I then said I'm I have to leave
00:34:43
yeah and I wasn't sad to leave because the a phobic disorder there'll be people
00:34:49
listening to me right now going I know all about a phobic disorder I've got this or I've got that and it's the most
00:34:59
grinding impossible thing to to deal with and and to kind of stay happy yeah um so yeah I left the B at the same time
00:35:09
that Neil joined in fact he arrived the day after me we should have waved in the
00:35:15
air best CH guitar and there was um there was a massive turning point for split end so you had this band that was
00:35:24
already successful and they just like raised another gear when did you first meet Neil how was how old was Neil when
00:35:30
you first metet like 10 11 8 he would have been it would have been a free Sunday at Sac heart college and Tim and
00:35:38
I we actually it was a a Christmas gift for my uncle Uncle John to go to steing Studios for an hour and to record and so
00:35:48
we went there and we spent much longer than an hour but my loving daddy paid all the rest of the money but the
00:35:54
recordings that we did were bloody good in fact they still exist they've been
00:35:59
mastered and now you can't hear them but Neil had been part of that process in
00:36:04
listening and absorbing the because they original songs the creative life of his big
00:36:10
brother at Sacred Heart and you could see it in his eyes that he wanted to do that
00:36:17
too yeah and so that that's when I'm I first properly saw him singing as a
00:36:24
support act for a New Zealand tour of spins h yeah he's you know we talked about time
00:36:30
for a change before um and then you listen to like Neil's lyrics for message
00:36:34
to my girl so he would have been really young when he wrote that and that's a
00:36:37
great song it's incredible lyrics there's no denying he's a pretty good
00:36:41
song wrer The the McCartney of inz I I can't say anything about anybody I can about Don yeah um how was it with
00:36:51
your brother was it Frosty for a while when you when you when you suggested NE well I England I well the thing is I
00:37:02
landed back in Oakland you know um and Jeff said oh we why don't you and I play here has a tape a cassette and
00:37:15
there's a song on it with some French lyrics and check that out and you know
00:37:19
so we form a band and the song with the French lyrics is Julia Julia hear me now you I thought [ __ ]
00:37:28
where's that song been okay we're former band so Citizen band came to be we stole
00:37:33
Bren Eckles and Greg Clark of Vox pop who were playing at the globe hotel but again oh yeah well see it's
00:37:44
all it's not complicated everybody with agobia has a safe place where it that
00:37:54
disorder can't touch you for me it is either a stage or ockland city I could be in Oakland City and live
00:38:05
a beautiful life and the minute I hopped in the car and drove off downstair to palon North to do a gig at the hour puny
00:38:14
I would be Frozen with fear unless I had my daddy's tranquilizer pills but yeah so Oakland in fact
00:38:22
everybody I've talked to that has come out and asked to speak to me about agobia has their own safe place some of
00:38:29
them it's the bedroom the other ones are really fearful they they go to open the
00:38:34
door of their bedroom and they rush back in it and if that's severe that means
00:38:37
your world is reduced to yeah so at least I I didn't know that this was the case that's why forming a band with je
00:38:45
of Citizen band was fine I felt good playing at the all the different venues but then we started to travel oh [ __ ] I
00:38:55
had one bad panic attack and pson North people thought I was really out of it little did they realize I was just
00:39:04
taking too many tranquilizer tablets where were you where were you playing was it the a pun the AL our
00:39:11
pun I'm from from palas North so yeah the hour we love it love being down there the guy there alen CIA can't
00:39:20
remember his name put us up in hotel rooms you know we were spoiled okay well let yeah let's talk
00:39:28
about this for um for is it hard for you to talk about this stuff or not the slightest no okay so um so there's a
00:39:35
reality TV show that you go on uh called new faces and I believe you finish in seventh place we were second to
00:39:43
last is it the irony of that like given how successful split ends went on to be so that's when the the that's do you
00:39:49
call them panic attacks or yeah yeah that was a bad one that was with space wall so yeah so so you were playing in
00:39:56
both space spots and split in this Eddie and Eddie R and I we both played on a national tour with Space Balls I don't
00:40:06
know how this came about someone paid for me to fly I was at work working as an engineer at Fisher and parle I would fly
00:40:14
in the morning down do the show say at the CR Town Hall fly back the next morning go to work fly back down to
00:40:21
theen PL that denen town nor flyback what a mental life it was no wonder I was ravaged um I don't know what that was an
00:40:31
answer to did you ask me something well yes so so the new faces reality TV show see I hadn't had a panic attack so
00:40:39
this is where it all started yeah I'd been in ockland and unbeknown to me I was safe
00:40:46
you know and spans was doing well and we were playing with Spaceballs at the his Majesty's theater and that and
00:40:53
we flew down to do the final film of beautiful boy which is going to be in the final of new faces so we filmed it
00:41:04
it's on New Zealand on screen on tell you if you want to see it I've got Brill
00:41:08
cream slick here had chicken dinner with the boys they stood up and said we're going
00:41:16
to the bar and I just got whacked with the most ferocious case of Terror just unimaginably
00:41:27
just huge overwhelming yeah as I say in the book I rush back to the bedroom the hotel room that Eckles and I were in
00:41:37
they'd all gone to the house bar so I was there alone and I vomited I had diarrhea I had diarrhea and vomiting I
00:41:43
was just it was and but what do I say to anybody do I say oh I'm really really
00:41:49
really really really really really scared H come what's up I don't know far
00:41:56
out so somehow I fell asleep after some hours of just pretending to be asleep and that's when the
00:42:06
battle started so you were how old at the time like 20 mid 20s 21 21 and it's the first
00:42:14
time it's happened [ __ ] that must be so did you initially think it might be like
00:42:17
a food poisoning or a viral bug or I think I had a weak Link in my psychic chain and I had a susceptibility for a
00:42:28
phobic disorder because of the ones in the family going back you know like my uncle and all that kind of
00:42:35
stuff that I if I was not taking care with my brain you could snap that psychic chain and I broke it one night
00:42:48
in August 74 and I think it was um yes I had had LSD that night but it was the tie sticks that the minute I
00:43:00
inhaled the tie stick I went into a a disgustingly fearful state which vanished of course cuz I was in Oakland
00:43:09
so being in Oakland wasn't enough to defeat that that first time watching TV
00:43:17
the TV became a monster it just looked at me like you having a panic attack you stupid wi was some big black dude
00:43:26
singing old music songs on TV anyway oh Isaac Hayes no yeah Isaac Hayes the sh from that
00:43:35
man something like that sha that's right I was dying up there so but so you you
00:43:41
just thought you were having like a bad trip um and I thought I had um brought on a case of
00:43:49
Madness undefined but very real and that I would be like this for the rest of my
00:43:54
life you weren't you weren't you didn't have a massive drug career though did
00:43:57
you you just sort of went and done at your girlfriend's parents house yeah basically yeah yeah uh okay so see I
00:44:03
couldn't get home I didn't have a car that's another thing is is the feeling
00:44:07
of entrapment I should have rung my father and and told him Dad if you've got a um
00:44:15
what do you call that stuff puts you to sleep oh like a like like a tranquilizer
00:44:20
no um they put it put you to sleep for operations oh I'm not anesthetic I um
00:44:27
you're not but anyway the stuff that puts you to sleep the anst puts it in and and an
00:44:33
aesthetic yes yes I didn't I was just yeah you just have to White Knuckle it
00:44:38
and absolute hell on Earth yeah so so but that incident in Wellington before you went on TV for new faces so you're
00:44:45
sharing a room with um Bren hles who's who's um gone on to become one of New
00:44:49
Zealand's best concert promoters ever he is still very busy still very active um
00:44:54
you must have had chats with him over the years about it what are his recollection of it nothing did he pick
00:44:58
up on anything or were you really good at wearing a mask I'm brilliant at wearing a mask I never talked to the
00:45:03
band about it I never talked to anybody about it um I think because I was probably just
00:45:12
plain embarrassed that by a fool hearty acid titics mix i' fallen down a deep dark hole into the black of
00:45:27
Hades I thought I was insane until my darling Daddy when I told him I had stage fright it's a great
00:45:38
lie I could have lived on the stage for the rest of my life um he said oh you should have have the syex tranquilizers
00:45:46
they'll help you on stage so I took one and I just fell like in the van I felt normal so I
00:45:57
lasted two and a half years taking half in the morning half at night half in the
00:46:02
morning half at half in the morning half at night and slowly but surely the wet blanket weighed down on me until I had
00:46:11
to leave wow so but having half morning half at night of these these pills that kept them that kept them at Bay you
00:46:21
didn't have I mean you never know it might have been just the the power of suggestion and that the fact that I
00:46:27
thought these are going to help me oh like a placebo effect yeah I don't know anyway but it sounds like they um
00:46:35
like they they kept on happening over a course of like a decade 12 years like the panic attacks yes yeah yeah yeah U
00:46:42
they became pretty rare after that in fact I never really had them but I took the the tranquilizers
00:46:53
for 18 years I when I was writing sharp left turn the book I thought I better learn
00:47:02
something about this drug you know because I it taking a little so I looked it up on something like Oxford
00:47:10
encyclopedia or something syex usually not taken for more than 3 weeks I thought oh what about the other 17 years
00:47:18
and 3 weeks um am I insane now I don't feel insane I think I'm okay but yeah well how long can you talk
00:47:32
about this because of course then it left me I felt it go as if have you seen that movie Baymax you know Baymax the
00:47:41
Character cartoon no so baymax is looks after this little kid and and when the little kid decides
00:47:51
that Baymax has looked after him enough he goes and so there's this scene talk
00:47:57
about crying I was watching with my granddaughter at Baymax have I done enough to help you staring at the little
00:48:07
boy boy who goes no no this is not the time you oh no you can't do please please have I done enough to help
00:48:18
you pause long pause pauses are great I do them on the Bas all the time yes you have and Baymax floats off
00:48:28
into space beautiful scene agobia said have I done enough to help you and after quite a big argument I
00:48:38
said yes you have and the disorder just floated away it's been mischievous now and then
00:48:46
and I've never had I did have real trouble in New York in the '90s but that was because I drunk far
00:48:55
too much on the plane and got my into a right State anyway look it's a complex world
00:49:01
having a brain yeah it it is and it sounds like you I mean reading the book like it's um I felt really bad for you
00:49:09
it's like harrowing just living in almost this fear of these things happening and just you the the
00:49:15
uncertainty of knowing if it's going to happen is it not going to happen there's
00:49:18
one incident where you talk about where you've got a layover at LAX you're
00:49:22
flying to London and uh your bag gets checked all the way through again this is like um 1970 so uh this is long
00:49:29
before like you know Aviation Security is even a patch on what it is now but your tranquilizers were in your luggage
00:49:36
that was checked all the way through and you realized you had like half a pill sitting in your pocket so you were it
00:49:41
sounded like you were a junkie almost like trying to you know rashing out this half a pill figuring out when to take it
00:49:48
or I'll never forget the GU saying you haven't got a visa to stay here at all
00:49:54
so the bags have gone through it London and I looked at him I thought that what must have been what the look was like
00:50:02
when you went into oswit and hopped off the train was something you knew that all of hell was waiting for you but
00:50:10
luckily I had my half and I must have sort of somehow talk myself into that half will be okay so I just pretended to
00:50:18
be asleep for like s or eight on a whatever the time it takes to fly to London from New York and I got through m
00:50:26
in a Shabby State mind you yeah do you like from where you are now do you look back and you regret not hard
00:50:34
like not talking to your bandmates about it or not seeking some more professional
00:50:37
help well I think they probably would have asked me or let me go I was scared they were going to let me go because I
00:50:45
was mad but you weren't you weren't mad though no I had a phobic disorder and
00:50:51
lots of people got them there are people right now probably sending you a text or
00:50:57
something about well he's he's got what I want yeah but um there it's it's
00:51:04
important to know who is part of your saving process so my wife Bridget flying with her this is back in
00:51:15
the days when I was still taking the pills in theory but if if I had forgotten to bring
00:51:22
it I possibly could board a plane with her with me you know having people like that and maybe even my father I never
00:51:30
flew with him ever like kind of weird like an anchor thing or a comfort thing or a security thing security I think you
00:51:37
know cuz she's very important in my life and so she's my wife did I say that yeah and
00:51:45
um yeah but in yeah I mean it was a it was it was a different time like um yeah water it was
00:51:54
uh it was a time where you didn't talk about that sort of stuff um was that for
00:51:59
stigma reasons you think or well I just didn't know what to say yeah I didn't
00:52:03
want say okay guys it started in August and uh someone was singing what's what
00:52:11
was the song on TV and I had this massive dose of Terror overcome me uh which I presume was to do with the drugs
00:52:19
I'd taken and I'm now quite insane uh and so what shall I do about it and they were going oh well go to
00:52:28
hospital and psychiatric ward or something I thought people would put me in a ward like one flow of the cucko in this
00:52:36
style yeah I I could have been um McMurphy or the chief I could m m that would have been good it's got a
00:52:44
rain yeah oh sh it's um it's heartbreaking it's heartbreaking what you went through it
00:52:52
was awful and you went through it for such a long period of time yeah but when I think about all I did everything in
00:52:59
like a 10-year block just by chance so I played Bas in a professional band for 10
00:53:07
years then when I got mushroom records I rang Michael ginsky beautiful man and I
00:53:13
said you need a New Zealand mushroom he said you're right I do hold hold fire
00:53:19
two days later he turns up with a big image he's done in his art Department of
00:53:24
mushroom New Zealand in the first alum was cool bananas and that was number one second album was P Bean dance exponents
00:53:31
that sold double Platinum so I had a great time and all of a sudden I was distracted from life on the road in a
00:53:40
band um and then I went to Appa for 11 years I love that because I would meet songwriters by the truckload you know
00:53:48
Don mcglashan would come in to have a meeting how's this SE work I explain it
00:53:52
to done looking at him like I'm in the same room as Dum GL that's really cool M
00:53:58
and then why did I leave ail well that's a very good question and maybe I'm just a
00:54:05
lever anyway and then I went to PL strange where I still am 21 years later well you're you're accelerating some
00:54:11
very very big um chunks of the Mike Chan story here well how many hours do you want
00:54:16
to bringing some beer it's it's quite early we I can get a couple of beers in if you want though
00:54:23
no fine um okay so first of all um Michael G you mentioned uh his name I had the fortune of meeting him like a
00:54:29
few years ago I went to Detroit for um Taylor Swift concert and he was bringing Taylor and ID to New Zealand and
00:54:36
Australia so we went out for had a lovely dinner how um yeah you were quite close with him did you are you familiar
00:54:42
with the Ed Shan song visiting hours no oh you got to check it out promise me you check it out it's a song that he
00:54:47
wrote as a tribute to Michael excellent Fant talks about If Heaven had visiting hours and just how much he misses his
00:54:53
mate visiting hours you'll love it um yeah what was what was your relationship
00:54:58
like with Michael gadinsky well it was it was professional you know um tough guy right he never went out
00:55:04
yeah well later when I was running the anr for CVS records which was a short period of
00:55:13
time but I had produced I'm looking at you in a funny way com I'm as much a producer as dog
00:55:23
outside that's prob having asleep but Phil Jud signed a little piece of paper that says the next
00:55:29
swingers I produced the swingers One Good Reason the next swingers song uh that we record you can have the rights
00:55:38
to it here in you know yeah in New Zealand so the next thing they go and record is counting the beat [ __ ] with
00:55:49
tickle whatever his first name is well I get a copy take it down to John M pry at CBS records he says okay
00:55:58
this is our new swinger single we're going to release it the phone rings at about 2
00:56:06
a.m. Chan you [ __ ] I thought oh no can he knows I've taken it down to CBS and that it hasn't
00:56:15
gone off the festival records or wherever he wanted it to go it was extremely precocious of
00:56:22
me and his was I'm I was listening to like oh man he's good at giving me heaps
00:56:31
he's really telling me off I can't do that what I want lessons from him on how
00:56:35
to make someone feel deeply regretful but I'm not going to and that song came
00:56:41
out it was number one second week or something oh it's a massive song it still gets used on ads for Kmart to this
00:56:48
day it was only in New Zealand that CBS had the rights but you know and uh so he immediately that was before I rang
00:57:01
him to say you should have a mushroom in New Zealand he called me chinny yeah chny what's up you should have a
00:57:06
mushroom I thought what happened to the swingers we w't mention the swingers uh
00:57:12
just business eh and mushroom New Zealand I think actually did a fantastic job anr wise
00:57:21
and Festival sold a lot of albums yeah yeah a lot of a lot of people won't know what we're talking
00:57:27
about mushroom was a very successful record label you were the head of it you signed um a young Dave Dobbin with his
00:57:33
band DD smash yep yeah incredible band yeah what what are what are your Recollections of a young a young Dobbin
00:57:40
what didn't he have um just terrible stage flight like played with us back to
00:57:43
the crowd in the early days I well my cognizance of Dave was when I played bass in a band called The Party Boys
00:57:54
everyone had sort of left bands or whatever so there was there were two party boy tours the second one is the
00:58:01
one really that was the most exciting Pete Warren on drums Neil Fen on guitar and vocals Dave doin on guitar
00:58:09
and vocals and me on Bas wow but he would quite often vomit before going on stage and you could tell he
00:58:19
was tense before he so he was scared of going on the stage I don't I never actually asked him we
00:58:27
would just notice that he had Yet to Come On Stage because he was having a puke what why did you never think to
00:58:34
talk about it and think maybe he's got a similar thing to what I've got if the
00:58:37
guys from the spin happen to hear what we're talking about they'd be laughing
00:58:42
and that we were the band that never spoke to each other let alone anybody else we were socially
00:58:50
pathetic just a product of the time I've got no I don't know I mean maybe if Tim was sitting
00:58:57
over there he'd say was boarding school Mike remember did we learn how to communicate at boarding school did the
00:59:03
brothers ever talk to us like did you have a good holiday over Christmas Chun blah blah blah no it was a deathly kind
00:59:12
of Silent world that we grew up in very strange just the I think it's just the generational thing right the
00:59:20
generation you grew up in the time yeah yeah like like stiff upper lip sort of thing um keep com and carry on
00:59:27
don't show any sort of weakness or vulnerability yeah well there was well we didn't have a name for my disorder I
00:59:35
think Phil God bless him had a kind of social disorder social phobia cuz he would walk off the stage especially the
00:59:43
American tour he would just not be there he couldn't do it did you did you have some sort of
00:59:52
um fom fomo I guess you know fear of missing out like after you I mean you you made you made the decision that you
00:59:59
had to make for your own health to to leave the band and to stay in Oakland um but when the the band had all that
01:00:04
success after that um you know starting with I got you and then everything else that followed was there a bit of you
01:00:10
that felt like bummed out or you know not at all I think because having it was it it presented such a I call it
01:00:23
almost evil front that here we go again like that they got on planes all the time all of a sudden they got on all
01:00:32
sorts of stuff and the traveling they did would have killed me no I I have never but also if you look
01:00:42
back I could never regret any step forward that I made because I so want to be where I am
01:00:53
[Music] today yeah I love that um yeah yeah I notic in your book that you're you're in a voice that's quite
01:01:03
you're quite mean to yourself at times aren't you just the way you sort of
01:01:07
speak to yourself like calling yourself a buffoon and yeah yeah yeah I'm not sure where that
01:01:17
well self-deprecating or I don't I wonder if I have an ego i' I'd say if anything you got the
01:01:27
reverse of of an ego like there's been a couple of times uh today where you talked about playing guitar because it's
01:01:32
the easiest instrument to play um I've read that you you you say you can't sing
01:01:36
or can't write songs that's true though although I've got I've got a theory on that and
01:01:42
correct me if I'm wrong but um okay um let's use the beetles as as an example
01:01:47
because it's your your favorite band George Harrison right fantastic songwriter but put him next to Lyon and
01:01:53
McCartney and he he looks pretty average by compar you've just been surrounded by like the
01:01:58
tallest trees imaginable in New Zealand music you know luck Dobbin the fins andert name here and by comparison
01:02:07
whatever you write is going to look pretty ordinary that's true and I'm an a
01:02:11
of those people as as creative minds so I was very happy just to be in a band with them yeah
01:02:19
yeah yeah okay so yeah so you worked at mashman for a while then you went to era
01:02:24
which is the AUST Asian performing Rights Association so you you've been your whole life it's been deeply
01:02:31
entrenched in the music industry both on stage and um behind the scenes yeah and
01:02:37
with the foundation of every step of those career moves being the songs that are written in New Zealand it's about
01:02:47
songs yeah it's not about the best leag guitarist or how loud you know it's not
01:02:53
the loudest band so that's where having D Smash and dance exponents me Jordan luck as a songwriter is just
01:03:01
profoundly good so he would come through with new songs um with this crazy bunch of boys
01:03:09
do you do you have um are you more of a fan of the dance exponents or the exponents in terms of Music
01:03:16
output oh that's a really really interesting question I'm going to go 5050 oh that's
01:03:23
a copout you're sitting on the fence I've got a I've got a mate do you know
01:03:27
do you know my my friend Robert Scott he's been in radio know Robert Scott heer he loves was he uh in the bats no
01:03:35
oh no there is a Robert Scott in the bats he he's a radio guy works works at
01:03:39
the Bree but he he drags me along to exponents concerts all the time and a couple of years ago they did um a double
01:03:45
a double night thing night one was the dance exponents night two was the exponents um so I went along to the
01:03:50
dance experence night with him then he went the next night as well he goes to all of them but I yeah I mean you were
01:03:56
with Jordan in the in in between the two right you were over in the UK with him well obviously R
01:04:02
company when they were the dance exponents then it all fell apart and they went to England and I went to
01:04:10
England too to run away after mushroom and I went around to visit them and times were real
01:04:21
tough and I know what that's like and then they said oh we've been asked to play at the
01:04:27
Leicester Ballroom for a New Zealand TV in ton and the footage will go south you
01:04:34
know to New Zealand they were just one of the ex and they hopped up there and they played this song called why does
01:04:41
love do this to me oh and I rushed backstage and I said well Buzz reckons I said who who is that what song is that
01:04:53
that you've covered I wouldn't have did that and if I did I feel terrible but I
01:04:59
believe I in backst and said what an amazing song where'd that come from so they go back to New Zealand get a deal
01:05:06
with Adam Hal at Universal and why does love do this to minut comes out and it may as well be the national anthem every
01:05:13
single New Zealander sings that song yeah the familiarity level is just and that's what a good song does it
01:05:21
sticks with you till pretty much the day you die m yeah as the exponents the the songs they
01:05:29
came back with in the second half of their career just phenomenal phenomenal pop songs it's incredible he's an
01:05:33
interesting guy like he hasn't drunk drunk in a few years has he no yeah well
01:05:38
I saw a lot of them when I was mushroom with them and he just kept throwing these songs at
01:05:44
them here's this one here's that one here yeah no they're are very special
01:05:50
group of people um one thing I really like about uh your story from the age I'm at now cuz I'm I'm 51 that's ex the
01:05:58
exact same age you were when you started play at strange so you finish your corporate career you're at this place
01:06:04
called AA austral Asian performing Rights Association you have a 5 Monon break in Europe and you decide to to um
01:06:09
stop it and the the funny thing is 51 a lot of people I know when I was 30 I thought 51 you were dead life was over
01:06:17
now I'm here I realize it's it's not the case but the fact that you started this
01:06:21
thing which has become I don't know part of your legacy I think at 51 I think
01:06:24
that's kind of cool so how was um what was the what was the birth of Play It
01:06:28
Strange how do you describe play it strange for anyone that doesn't know well I I'll talk about what it does so
01:06:35
what it what became very clear to me is that you had bands like um oh [ __ ] give me some Spencer day was
01:06:48
grp that that had songwriters in them that were teenagers and New Zealand and in New
01:06:56
Zealand schools I wasn't aware of anyone writing songs except for the odd one like Dave Dobbin or
01:07:05
something and I thought why not why aren't they and I met Professor pet pson
01:07:11
from Berkeley College of Music in Boston we got on like a house off and I said to him okay so you're the professor
01:07:20
of songw writing and lyric writing at um in Boston do you ever come across teenage
01:07:27
school age songwriters that are really really good he said no and I said why not is there anywhere
01:07:37
in the world you'd think England and America as the two Fountain heads of class pop songs would have teenagers and
01:07:46
he said well the only country I know that has a structure for them to have their songs heard as New
01:07:52
Zealand so that actually is the end the story so yeah um yeah why I thought there aren't any
01:08:01
songs being written in schools why not do they play rugby in schools MH uh do they have people learning all about
01:08:10
science to become scientists do they learn languages to become linguists or whatever they want to do with them
01:08:19
songwriting I think it's because music teachers always think I'm beating beating them up but anyway I'm
01:08:26
not I'm not today please I'm not I'm not uh they they aren't songwriters you know
01:08:33
they do JS or they they do serious musical concert B and stuff like you know 76 drum bones led the big parade
01:08:42
and that so A A friend of mine Bill Moran who was a a finance was in the government but
01:08:54
also Phil Jud freak he rang me when he heard I was leaving and said you're leaving eper and I said yeah I am B know
01:09:02
the time's come he said do you know what gaming societies are I said no I've never heard of them
01:09:11
what are they he said well we should form a charitable trust and get money off a gaming society and
01:09:19
what would it do I'm standing on the footpath outside benediction Cafe in Norland
01:09:26
uh songwriting competitions he says great idea great what else ukulele orchestras that's great
01:09:34
I'll be in Oakland tomorrow or something and we'll start the whole thing well in
01:09:37
about two weeks play it he said I've got a name for it I said what is it Bill he
01:09:42
said play at strange and I said H that makes sense because he was such a Phil Jud fan of
01:09:48
play at strange is the song written by Phil Jud that was never recorded properly I I could tell also at the same
01:09:56
time he wanted to fly Phil J back from Australia to be a judge on it which happened uh so PL strange came to be and
01:10:05
we just threw out come on get get your songwriting students get your music students get
01:10:14
students get creative writing people to write lyrics just all write songs and see them to us here at plat strange Neil
01:10:22
Finn God bless him had given us a room at the top of his building building so I would sit there with a
01:10:28
phone we'd send out a little booklet to all the music teachers we're running a
01:10:32
songwriting competition get your students to join we're running a songwriting
01:10:38
competition get the students to join come on come on then one day the phone rang it's like a scene out of u a horror
01:10:52
movie Mike here at Planet strange Mike it's Sharon Hollis here at the scotwood
01:10:57
trust in Hamilton I've got your a little book here about your songwriting competitions
01:11:04
and I think I can get my board of directors what to give you some funds to start it
01:11:12
well I've been told since that she got beaten up at the board meeting like what
01:11:17
are you talking about player strange what a stupid name what a song writing what the [ __ ] said all about but she won
01:11:23
she got the money we and on the first first album we did in 19 uh sorry 2004 a little 14-year-old from Hamilton
01:11:33
called kimra had a song and it just smashed all the windows when we played it and so I just thought there are
01:11:41
songwriters out there at the schools they just need to be heard and so we started with one album of 20
01:11:50
songs this year I think we're going to reach about 650 songs yeah and you just start down as as CEO
01:11:58
at the end of last year after 20 years yeah well Bill said you can be the CEO I actually didn't really know what that
01:12:03
inail I'll be the CEO sure he said yeah okay yeah I I went to the second slot
01:12:12
really uh a CEO can't go on forever so what you what are you doing now you still s of I'm the creative
01:12:21
director so and I'm a Founder yeah geez it's it's so cool what a legacy eh I've
01:12:28
had a ball best job I've ever had even better than expence expence was riddled
01:12:33
with problems of my own doing but play strange it's you know when I go into a
01:12:39
studio and someone like Bill Engish daughter Maria English is sitting there singing her song about this
01:12:47
girl I hope she doesn't hear this this girl which is about a girl that she doesn't like and make the lyrics in the
01:12:56
in the songwriting of the songs from schools are incredibly cathartic the pouring of the
01:13:04
heart out whether it's to a father that's left them on Father's Day that's
01:13:11
an incredibly terrible song um the mother who's beaten up by the Father the fathers are actually [ __ ] most of
01:13:19
the songs but there are mothers and then the boy girl relationship one guy was and his the first year it was all about
01:13:26
how wonderful this girl was the next year it was about a girl and how terrible she was and I said to him so we
01:13:32
got a new girlfriend sort of he said no she's dropped me they're all healing themselves with
01:13:39
songs you know that's a short summation of what it's all about yeah I like that
01:13:44
God you must be incredibly proud of play it strange it's really cool right it's
01:13:47
it had to be there somewhere in the passage of time a play Strange a songwriting environment had to so school
01:13:56
kids can send them in cuz go back to Pat Patterson again we were sitting in my car going to Hamilton and I was playing
01:14:04
a PL strange CD of songs that have been entered and he said you know what the best thing is about plat strange he said
01:14:12
are you are you playing these songs I said yeah I am he said that someone not only decides to write the song Not only
01:14:21
starts to write the song but then horror of all Horrors finds the energy to finish the song that apparently is the
01:14:29
high part and then sends it to Australia with a whole set of lyrics which are part of the heaing process so it doesn't
01:14:36
really matter who wins it doesn't even really matter who goes on the album it's
01:14:42
the fact that how many this year I think this was a few years ago I said something like 420 he said that 420
01:14:49
songs were started and finished whereas without PL strange they probably would have been two
01:14:56
H [ __ ] I can tell you're proud just the way you talk about it I yeah I just love
01:15:03
it yeah has it did it give you a new Lis of life where do you think you would have been now at the age of 71 if you
01:15:08
hadn't been busy with us for the last 20 years oh well I did love AA why did I
01:15:12
leave era yeah cuz I read in your book when you got know the answer when you got the
01:15:17
job at era that's uh that was the moment when you had that security that your um
01:15:22
AGR phobia left like you can pinpoint the ex moment I felt it yeah it sort of went aming like a weight leaving your
01:15:30
body I've been opening a glove box to take out the tranquilizer to catch the
01:15:34
flight back to Oakland and I picked up the bottle and then this happened and I put it back in the
01:15:43
glove box shut it and caught the flight what's going on so you haven't you
01:15:48
haven't had any of those pills for how many years years years I carry them now
01:15:52
I do carry them do you as i't been I haven't been traveling enough Yeah you sort of need to keep beating it
01:16:00
down right like sort of face your fears sort of thing yeah in a way and and there have been quite long periods of
01:16:07
time where I haven't flown it's all about the flight God the brain's a complex [ __ ]
01:16:14
thing isn't it um oh a couple of other things so you yeah you made Royal honors
01:16:20
uh in 2002 for music and again in 2015 for your services to Mental Health what are you like a companion of the what's
01:16:28
yeah I'm a friendly guy I'm a companion companion of the order of the a companion of the New Zealand order of
01:16:36
Merit yeah are they are they something you're proud of do they mean a lot to
01:16:40
you yeah and especially my mom dad had gone but Mom was very proud and and so with my family you know that we were all
01:16:48
at the government house luncheon for those who had received the companion and it was a great vibe in the
01:16:56
room yeah that's good I mean well it's an honor isn't it yeah well if someone
01:17:04
wants to give you one I think why not 100% and well well deserved do does one mean more than the other like the
01:17:10
the one first Serv yes yes it does d yeah it starts with queen service or something then it goes to a member of
01:17:19
the order of Merit then you're an officer of the order of Merit which was my first one then you're a companion of
01:17:25
the New Zealand order of mar and then you go on to be a KN no I mean does does one mean more than the other to you in
01:17:31
terms of um no services to music versus services to mental health no no both equal yeah yeah um how do you how do you
01:17:39
feel about aging oh I'm into it yeah yeah I'm fine and there are things I
01:17:44
can't do anymore I can't run because my I've got a sort of rheumatoid arthletic problem with my
01:17:54
legs I don't know if you notice me wobbling in here but um I I work away chip away
01:18:01
but I you know so um yeah I don't think about it if I can't walk properly I don't walk
01:18:11
properly I don't sit around brooding about anything to do with health yeah you're in good shape good health I think
01:18:19
so yeah what what are the most frustrating or annoying aspects of Aging just the
01:18:26
arthritis well even that I don't care about I have no crims at the moment about anything yeah you seem happy and
01:18:33
relaxed it's a good place to be um are there still things you want to learn or
01:18:41
achieve I I'd like to have a go uh well see I I basically don't think I can can
01:18:48
do it I'd like to write a book of course you can how many of you written so far they're just like you
01:18:55
know pages of a diary oh like a novel or yeah like those sort of stream of Consciousness things like I've just
01:19:03
finished Jame uh Janet frames faces in the water which is Al so part biography things like that hugely
01:19:15
in it's I love Dickens so I would have read seven Dickens books and it's how he
01:19:20
says things not what he's saying so it needs you need a lot of time uh no actually I having said that I'm
01:19:32
speaking to myself here you're talking [ __ ] really just thinking out so I don't
01:19:37
really want to write a book I feel like you like the idea of writing a book and when you think about
01:19:42
how much Works sit down and look at it this like I want to make sure I don't forget
01:19:50
how to play for example the um the piano bits that I love playing you know like the girl with the
01:19:58
flex in here by deusi you know if I forget that so I need to keep my memory alert yeah is and
01:20:07
playing the piano actually is a really good thing for exercising the brain is it just a case of use it or lose it with
01:20:14
the yeah I think so yeah um what are your thoughts of um the the current music landscape like what what current
01:20:21
artists do you like who are you a big fan of oh um well I know it sounds like fob or stupid really
01:20:28
but all I listen to at the moment are songs from schools so you could say yeah but what
01:20:35
about blue blue Billy ey it wouldn't have a clue wouldn't have I don't listen
01:20:40
to them right uh I have very active uh children that you know like I'm going to see Voom
01:20:50
on Sunday night with my daughter and my my son Barney and I we play songs together really
01:20:59
well Ruby can play the lead solid wonderful tonight and Johnny learned how to play
01:21:07
something by Passenger so there's all this sense of involvement and I don't really set high standards
01:21:15
for myself you know I can get myself through part of the second movement of R manof yeah that's cool
01:21:24
um what about um what what about how how old are your grandkids Alie is about 20 months
01:21:36
yeah Alfred my father's name was Alfred actually no it wasn't my grandfather's
01:21:42
name and Lyra l y r a Lyra is five any day she's called Lyra because that's the
01:21:51
lead character in the trilogy by Philip pman of the northern lights and there's one in the oven wow
01:22:02
you're enjoying this new chapter of your life being a grandparent what are you
01:22:06
what are you um maybe that maybe they're too young to go down this track yet but
01:22:09
what are you what are you play to them what do you sing to them do you make up you make up funny songs or Bary does
01:22:14
that with Alfie um Lyra no she's more into reading books in fact what she can sort of do which is
01:22:22
kind of really strange and etheric is that she can you read her the book actually her mother used to do this
01:22:30
too like um brussels sprouts are aliens I know this to be true and then you might go to read it
01:22:40
again and she's sitting here and I go someone says something I go what what and she goes Brussels that Ence I know
01:22:48
that to be through she knows it she reads the whole book wow she can't read so
01:22:54
I love that sort of stuff the advancement of the intellect it's and but it's done very
01:23:02
much to their enjoyment and what they want to do never going to we're not a disciplinarian
01:23:11
environment yeah what was your upbringing like was it a disciplinary environment I couldn't stand the
01:23:16
education discipline you know I like caning on the knuckles and I didn't get caned on in fact I had the
01:23:25
best music teacher on the planet Mrs Beasley but and she would buy me sheet music and and I would learn how to play
01:23:32
what should we do with a drink and S where the other poor suckers in my class were having to do things like Fair
01:23:41
release made to play songs that they would never listen to to me the whole world of learning an instrument as you
01:23:49
learn to play pieces of music or songs or whatever they are that you like to listen
01:23:56
to does that sound like I'm emphasizing it yeah 100% it's common sense right
01:24:01
it's common sense it's like um oh hello I'd like to play rugby I'm dreaming of
01:24:07
being in the ph5 brother no no rugby you can hurt yourself the only thing we have
01:24:14
that's competitive is chess that probably happens yeah um do do you have any
01:24:26
regrets uh well I could say yes that that and that this and this but all of them if they weren't to
01:24:37
happen or didn't happen would find me not where I am today yeah and it's good to have an
01:24:44
understanding of that day how everything fits in together but [ __ ] it would have
01:24:47
saved you a lot of um a lot of pain a lot of Anguish to um address the agrop phobia earlier
01:24:56
yeah but then there are you know there's a woman I wouldn't have met and there
01:25:04
uh yeah I never would have been an AA and I mean my time in AA and in plant strange have in Ence been as enjoyable
01:25:14
and rewarding as in the bands yeah life's been good everything's worked out everything works out for a
01:25:23
reason I'm okay yeah um are you proud of are you proud of yourself oh I like
01:25:29
asking my guest this question because it's just I feel like it's an awkward
01:25:32
one for us New Zealand am I proud of myself well I've heard that I am Bridget when we went for lunch at
01:25:45
government house for the companion bronze you know thing she said that to me and I thought oh that's
01:25:53
really you know because that's not not the sort of thing people throw around like I'm
01:25:58
really really proud of you sh that's wonderful isn't it and my mom she said it too I don't need to hear
01:26:10
it often uh what do I think I'm proud of the genes that I was given which mean
01:26:19
that I will talk to any stranger in the world I will assist any old lady crossing the road I will
01:26:30
give time to a band at a school down the road that I happen to have seen or met that could do the leg up all that kind
01:26:39
of stuff yeah I've got time and space to help people and if you anyone you speak to
01:26:49
says that about you through any sort of chapter or period of your life this isn't just um
01:26:54
you and your senior years where you've got more time on your hands like no one
01:26:57
will say a bad word about you everyone always talks about um you know how generous you've been you know with your
01:27:03
time and your experiences o over the years thank you which I think is a huge compliment right thank you yeah yeah and
01:27:11
um yeah did we just about see some of those happy tears a second ago when you were reflecting on your mom and your
01:27:17
wife that's cool I think it's a gift day to be to about a cry crying is good yeah
01:27:23
crying is great uh yeah crying is good yeah why not oh 100% yeah it's just um
01:27:30
well I feel like uh I'm a little bit younger than you but it's just the way
01:27:35
we were sort of bought up where your guys don't sort of cry or show any emotion but leaning into that I think
01:27:40
especially as you get older is a really good thing cool yeah all right hey Mike Chan thank you so much for your time
01:27:46
today I really appreciate it um you're a great New Zealander and it's been an
01:27:51
absolute honor for me uh to have you on my podcast like thank you yeah unbelievable it's great being here
01:27:57
thanks for the invitation [Music]