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[Music] [Applause] [Music] D on N welcome to my podcast thanks I made it I'm so pleased this finally uh
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finally happened I think it's worth probably um opening with um so the podcast has been going about two and a
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half years now when it was um maybe a month old or three or four episodes in you reached out to me um for a chat
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about like sponsoring like real early on and you were the first sponsor I had on
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the podcast ever yeah well we we loved it like you you got you're doing some
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great stuff actually I've been doing some research cuz I thought oh man I better see what you're talking about you
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know I've got something to say um and so I've spent the last couple of days just
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watching the podcast and I I've loved it real surprise ones actually you know
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Matthew Ridge who knew you know it's like awesome just all those names from the past and people that you haven't had
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those insights so that was why we liked it at the start and you've continued on
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it's great no oh it's it's one of those um things that that I'll never forget
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you know so we had a meeting and um you you gave me a little bit of money and you said it's not a lot of money but I
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don't have a lot of marketing money but you know once other businesses see you've got a sponsor on board maybe
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it'll start a sort of tipping Tipping Point effect and it it kind of did in a
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way and I'll um I'll never forget that it's really cool thanks and I've been a
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big fan of views for um a very long time as you know there's even um I even emailed you a couple of times over the
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years trying to buy like a small share of your company I know I know we should I
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probably should have taken you up on that now no I I love what you do at [ __ ] and disaster and this is going to
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be this is going to be a great chat we can talk about the business stuff uh rewind the clock talk about the Cricut
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stuff and but basically I just want to know what makes you tick really um but let's start with um these two little
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books I found oh yeah uh put out by shell Cricket called the Great Little Cricket signature book so this is uh
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this is um back pre- social media when you were playing Cricket for New Zealand and I suppose um people wouldn't come
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and get selfies they' just get autographs right yeah yes very much so this was a profile of Dion NES so I've
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got when was the last time you saw these books by the way oh gosh it's been a
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while I'm pretty sure my mother bought one there's one somewhere floting at
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home Margo butcher put these out she did a it was ahead of her time really like this is now you know bread and butter
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for sports people they do it all the time on social media but yeah I guess you know hard copy social media so I I
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thought I'll run through some of the some of the questions that were put to you by Margot butcher in the early '90s
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and see how your answers compare now 30 years on so nicknames uh nashy would be it now but
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back then it would have been Woody or woodshack or Dasher I suppose you why Woody uh Woody was um well initially
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when I went to University I was a bit of a cruel nickname cuz I you know I met this new bunch of guys and I was some of
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them were older Cricket guys who a couple years older at University than me so I was trying to fit in so I kept
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asking dumb questions so one of these guys Carlo daa nicknamed me Woody off chairs you know because I kept asking
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dumb questions and um but then over time the rest of the cricketers sort of like
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could I it became woodchuck because you know how much wood could have woodchuck chuck whatever and then chucker and then
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all the sort of sort of the derivatives um and I think they I was always grateful for the net that they evolved
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to a point where it moved away from Woody from cheers and into some sort of other but interestingly when I got um
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picked in the New Zealand team when I was still at University I was I was 20 and um I got picked and I a whole bunch
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of people came up to me after I got selected for the black caps and they were like wow I always thought your last
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name was wood I was like I was like Woody you know I was like um so anyway so I I obviously hadn't done my job in
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telling them my proper name so if you catch up with any of the the old guys from the '90s now does anyone still call
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you Woody I if I hear Woody called out I know where that person's from and I I I
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know I know them well yeah um favorite music oh yeah shoot well I jazz is probably if
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I had to pick one that I had to live with forever I would probably go Jazz um where I think back then I was probably
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fully into my grunge scene um I still like grung and punk and alternative music probably um been doing a little
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Darkness sort of di Deep dive of late I've been watching his um podcast or or
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Channel Justin Hawkins yeah yeah and um I've been loving it and he's just sort
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of got this really nice demeanor but I went and saw them live at the power station and what amazing musicians they
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were and so I've sort of like been I don't know I could find myself enjoying
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which is I guess a little bit Glam glamrock meets meets um grunge but um yeah Jazz I guess you back then it was
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blues and rock but you you've always been into your music eh you you you play
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guitar um yeah yeah well Define play yeah badly you badly I've um always I've
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got a Gibson SG which is uh I got from America years ago so which always reminds me of when I was growing up
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there was a guy in daral where I heard um a gr Nial Force scoop which was the most expensive bat you could buy back
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then um but he didn't know how to use it and so I was I I met when I bring out my
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SG in front of actual musicians I always feel like feel like that guy and I'm
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like oh I'm always just sort of embarrassed that I've got it but um but I love it you know oh you you go right
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don't you like you've got a you got a fun band with um um Jeff Ross the 42
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below they still a thing the camel toes oh yeah in fact they're trying to get
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something going again now it's been a long time between drinks yeah je from 42
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below in Aquia candles craigan is one of the greatest New Zealand league players
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all time is it a threepiece or anyone else no we got another guy Nick Ross who's lead singer and he's no relation
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to Jeff but he um he's great front man and then um heus G from the Fiers has
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sort of like floats around um yeah in the background there and um Dave um Rollins from clap clap right Pops in
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every now and then and does a little sort of helps they they sort of help give us a bit of structure and support
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when we need it coaching the musical version of the black Clash there's a couple of very much so very much so yeah
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uh worst job worst job you had this was your answer by the way in the early '90s
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well my worst job over here was well would probably still be picking squash or working in my father's Timber Mill I
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can't it's it's a pretty fine line between the two what did I say then
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pumpkin picking oh yeah there you go squash yeah pumpkin yeah yeah right um best thing about being a cricketer oh
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this is going to make your toes curl shoot this is not a great answer God what did I say uh the best
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thing about being a cricketer would have been um the big lunches I supp like great lunches there you go you look you
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look back now as um as a like a retired former you know New Zealand cricketer and New Zealand cricket captain what do
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you think now on hindsight from the perspective of a dude in his 50s oh shoot yeah early 50s Tom early 50s um um
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what do I think now what is the best thing that is it's a it's almost tougher
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to answer that retrospectively um I think the the the um expulsion of of of uh B the burden of sort of expectation
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and talent I think getting a little bit of that monkey off your back and the confidence I think that you gain from
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that is probably what Cricket offered uh enough that's a really answers it but in
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terms of the cricket itself I mean I would have to say the achievement of within a team and and within a group and
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I I did at one point our our era really got it together and the work that we had
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to go into doing that and understanding the sacrifices and the effort made to get to a point where we were were sort
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of a competitive world class side um it took sort of probably four years of buildup to get to that point you know
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and that then at lasted probably 18 months or two years before we sort of dropped off that form but the work and
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the team effort and the commitment as a group is what probably the the biggest takeway that is a great thoughtful
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answer I mean the easy answer would have just been to say like you the relationships or the friendships or yeah
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whatever I I appreciate that I even saw um Chris kin on Instagram yesterday like
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getting excited about the 25 year reunion of the 199 team oh good yeah oh so that's cats out of the bag yeah no
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well we're trying to do that down in Wellington um yeah I mean well that's
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probably the era of the team that for me and maybe Kenzie and a few other people
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that around that time that we got our we got our [ __ ] together you know and we
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prior to that we you know these photos in this era we were sort of a talented bunch of young Young Guns Young Guns you
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know but we had no framework no guidance a lot of the senior players left in 92 after that 92 World Cup so we were sort
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of left to our own devices to a lar extent we only used had one coach at the time and sometimes they were in and out
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really quickly so there wasn't the support um and so we just were left um so that era finally got it shipped
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together in late 99 yeah so seven years after this and if there's one thing I
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really hate it's what what is it now what do I hate now uh taxes at the end of the financial years really yeah
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God Oakland Council Oakland transport yeah um yeah slow drivers um I think I don't know what do I really hate I I'm
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trying not to hate anything I'm trying to be more mow in my Approach um I I'm
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hating how uh hard it is for me to change my own behavior that's what I'm
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hating at the moment hm what do you want to change I would like to sort of be calmer
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and less vocal I see I I suppose our interactions have only been sort of the occasional
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meeting or the occasional thing so maybe I haven't been long enough time with you
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but you you seem C and mellow oh yeah I I put on a good I put on a good front but no I mean what I what I would mean I
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yeah I think I probably am experienced mostly it's around my my kids in the Sport and expectations and sort of any
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competitive environment I was such I was always so competitive a competitive environment
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that I have no control over which is watching my kids place for example oh hello oh here he is Kanye hello
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Kanye it's JJ here JJ come in hey how are you everyone how's it going are you do you want to do you want
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to do you want to say good out for a second hey take over oh wow tell about your CLA to fame have you seen anything
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Tom him yet hi Dion JJ he remembers me so that's a good start do you remember your first ever
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interview on the radio oh no to remind me remind me thought you always remembered your
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first well I probably do but tell me what did I do do I stuff it up badly no no it was uh way back in
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1991 maybe 92 I was in uh tanaki working on nfm oh no I think I do and you came in for an interview and you said this is
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my first time on the radio I think I do remember that now gosh that's years ago so we were been at
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Pokey Cur Park that would have been like um one of those Queens I think we would
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have been playing Australia that would oh my gosh there was a that's right before it all kicked off it's so funny
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that you remember what what games you were playing when I just don't even remember that I just remember who I was
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interviewing oh I remember I remember cuz um Alan border was playing and was and you poy Park is so beautiful you
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can't forget it right and um I remember I walked out and you know when you're
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playing in front of the absolute heroes of like these guys were like 35 year old
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I was like 19 or something yeah and they were just like my heroes and I bed so meekly and quietly in the end of like
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about an hour which i' done survived pretty well Alan bord said wellplayed boy or something like that and honest my
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chest and my swelled like this I walked off floating on air was like my God spoke to me that's amazing was it the
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Richard Headley days yeah he was just finished I think but Martin Crow was around and they are legends that was a
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really big time in cricket oh yeah okay you he doesn't even remember interview I
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do well it was really great to see you okay to it fine get your own podcast I like he was really interested talking to
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me that it's fine I'll leaving with you dropped Richard Hy cuz that's the only
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name you think obviously I don't know much about Cricket except you don't want to be
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hitting the googly see you guys all right get out out um yeah you would have you would
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have hated media commitments back then I suppose cuz you're the new guy on the
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team it's like oh getting nashed to do the radio oh gosh I didn't yeah it's
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like and you were just so bad at it like you know we were just I had no idea what
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to say I remember I do remember after in getting infed by Paul Holmes once and I
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was in London and it was overnight and we'd finished and he was in the morning
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so it must have been for his radio and he said like something like um uh where are you and we're at this Cafe on Baker
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Street called Cafe suie we're having a you know celebrating this game and and I
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said oh you know it's where um Sherlock Holmes used to hang out and there was
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this like really long pregnant pause when I when he must have been thinking does he think she homes is
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real oh my God that's amazing was that interview because when when you played
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at Lords okay we'll get to that that's going to be one of the to this day one
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of the highlights of your life oh yeah for sure for sure for sure okay sh we've
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been got qu now already I'll just there's a couple of other bits in this
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book uh best breakfast wheat bcks and cold milk coated in Sugar yeah which is so if you were a professional athlete
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now and that was your answer yeah I mean it'd be good for potential sanitarium
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sponsor yeah yeah um best piece of clothing ever owned bright yellow Daisy shirt that
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attracts insects oh yeah I did love that shirt yeah I was trying all my see all my friends were we were all a bit fruity
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at University right we weren't beer drinkers like most of my mates were all sort of I don't know bit more on the
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Arty scene you know smoked a bit of pot and and hung out in in the park you know
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they were sort of like so I sort of caught that that dress code a bit so trying we're always trying on different
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shirts different sort of you know strange um Jack opposition that way between having those Ary sort of friends
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and also being this like jock for lack of a bit attemp yes yeah I yeah I mean I I think Cricket probably lends itself to
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it more than some sports and I don't know that like in some ways it was a bit
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of a coping strategy as well I think you know a little bit of trying to make uh a
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life outside or away from that competitive environment um and you know I I just found them really good guys as
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well they you know they were into interesting stuff right you know so they were off on ski trips or mountain
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climbing or you know doing going to theater or doing stuff which was just for my world was like wow this is crazy
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you know and and and interesting so I I found it like a nice a great outlet and I still do you know like all of those
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mates most of those mates are still my best mates today you know yeah when you look back on that guy um what are you
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most proud of and least proud of I I I I'm really proud of that guy like that guy had come a long way you know he
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come from dargaville and ended up at University and he was on his way just about breaking into the New Zealand side
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at 20 uh life was you know I'd achieved a lot you know and I I didn't think of it
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from coming from a you know a background that that that was tougher to achieve those things you know but you know I
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just but um yeah I'm there's nothing I'm you know obviously as it turned out I wish I could go back
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and give him some sound advice on how to be a professional Sportsman how to look
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after his body how to um you know how to mentally get through it you know like um
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not long after this I got about two years after this I got a contract to go and play in England for 6 months and you
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know it that was a huge honor back there there were only 17 International contracts in the world so you know I was
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it was a bit of an ego boost but also so a huge honor but I had no no coping strategy I had I wasn't fit enough I
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wasn't strong enough mentally tough enough you know just it was just exhausting um and so it would be nice to
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be able to go back and say Hey you make you're about to get some opportunities
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here's some bitter ways to go about making these decisions but was anyone physically strong enough though like I
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like the knowledge we have now in terms of strength and conditioning and rehab and everything else yeah no not really
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and the ones that we got lucky I think you know um and you know I tried really hard when I went over there and it was
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just so long like we would play and if you if you're in a successful team which
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I was um you would play four day game and then in the middle of the four game there there'd be a one day game so that
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meant you were playing for five days in a row and then for there was always a sixth day which was another one- day
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competition and these competitions just sort of begin and began excuse me ended so if you're a bad team you dropped out
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earlier and you got a bit more of a break but if you keep winning like we did meant you playing six days a week
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for virtually for not for for 6 months and then quite often on the seventh day you drive to the next venue which would
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be you know every second week would be away so I remember one day where you finished on a like a Monday or Sunday or
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whatever it was and ended up driving to Durham from from London you know it's
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like 7 hour drive or something so it's just crazy you know is that is that why
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your back ended up [ __ ] just too much yeah I think so yeah I always remember um Tom moody this Australian West
00:19:03
Australian big tall guy he was the Worcester Pro and I'm I played against wora I did quite well against him and
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after the game he pulled me aside and he just came over and it's just me and him
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time he goes man you got to learn how to Bow within yourself you know and just slow down a bit go off a short run
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otherwise you're never going to last and I was like I remember thinking is this
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guy Aussie guy trying to stitch me up here and you know have me on and I was like but he's the only guy and the whole
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time he tried to offer me some actual sound advice and I just wish I had a listened oh yeah yeah there's that
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saying um that youth is wasted on the it's like too much testosterone or something man just yeah I did one of
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those um uh Treasure Island shows years and years ago with with doly and he he was [ __ ] as well like there was some
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nights where he couldn't even lie down properly his back was that soy are you
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okay now yeah no I'm good now I am I am I've got a new hi just got a new
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replacement so that's all good um but um no back wise sweet you know I think
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generally it's helped me keep fit because you I I'm sort of conscious that
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got to stay on top of my phys you know physicality just to avoid all those things cuz like doly i' had stress
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frates either side just collapsed so those things never fully heal so you sort of just put up with them but you
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sort of just become stiff and a bit you know that that fuses itself over time um
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but yeah no doly was well we played a lot together doly and yeah we used to share our um
00:20:34
volaran dosing was like it was a bit like you know would dose up he he he always had doly was a big fan of the
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ones that you put up your bum and I was like h i having to try them one and I was like a doly I think I just stick to
00:20:49
the swallow I'll run the risk with the stomach stomach off broo the suppository
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gets into your blood how much quicker how much time are you sa oh we hit all down pet you know if you take an aspirin
00:21:00
with them it thins the blood gets through faster was like yeah sweet is that a true story yeah are yeah man we
00:21:07
were all sopping notes yeah yeah okay let's um there's so much about the
00:21:11
cricket stuff that I want to get into but I first of we'll focus on the the business stuff so um so you finished
00:21:17
playing Cricket for New Zealand then this I've listened to heaps of podcast you've been on and the story goes um
00:21:24
you're working out at a gym or something Jeff Ross who's um done very well for
00:21:28
himself with um eoa and before that 42 below he comes up to you and you asks you what you're doing did you know him
00:21:34
did you have a relationship with him or well it it it actually wasn't it wasn't
00:21:38
Jeff um it was his business partner um so um so Grant Baker was sort of like the
00:21:45
um um uh there was this they had this great sort of Duo and Grant Baker was the business head in the na um Steve
00:21:54
Sinclair was the sort of numbers guy um Jeff was the um you know sort of the creative so they were uh this sort of
00:22:03
magical um team so yeah so I went to a uh a gym with um one of them and then they just s said come on what do what
00:22:10
are you doing with yourself and um and I said I actually I'm going to a bottled
00:22:14
water you know I thought do this bottled water and um he goes oh we want to do a
00:22:19
bottled of water come on and and and meet the teams and he said WR it bring it bring in your business plan so I was
00:22:24
like oh yes sweet so went home went to my went to Bernie I don't even think we're married or maybe we were bit and I
00:22:29
said [ __ ] I've got a business plan was was there Google then or no no no [ __ ]
00:22:34
no no this is like know yeah 2003 or something yeah I don't know it was a long time but um anyway it was a great
00:22:42
introduction and met them and they they pushed them my business plan to one side
00:22:46
pretty much straight away you know and said oh yeah okay well let's have a look
00:22:50
come and do it with us we'll build the plan together shall we so that was a and
00:22:54
that was like business 101 you know it was just like coming inside with these hard notes some hard-nosed young sales
00:23:00
guys some really creative guys and just this energy of in sort of um entrepreneurial energy that was just
00:23:08
happening at the time in an exciting category you know vodka was blowing up around the world it was sort of you know
00:23:14
parties parties were sort of all involved all the time so you felt like it was like just fun um but at the same
00:23:22
time you're learning all these quite good business sort of things and it was
00:23:26
all about sales like that when it's sold everyone had to go about 42 below being
00:23:31
just a marketing story but internally the culture was so hardcore sales right every Monday morning every Monday
00:23:38
morning we'd have these meetings and it was like from the person on the front
00:23:41
desk to the you know accountant if you all expected to have sold something in the last week you know and and so it's
00:23:48
just either to friends or family or overseas and so it was a really good environment to learn and cut your teeth
00:23:55
in so what was your job there were you sort of in marketing no so we did did a water business and20 420 and so they let
00:24:02
me I bought I paid bought in 25% and they funded 75% and and we were sort of a subsidiary of the 42 and we would go
00:24:12
and try and sell it into the bars the idea was you know you people would drink of water every town every now and then
00:24:19
between the their drinks and responsibility corporate respons St to come in so we there's this idea that and
00:24:25
if we could call it the 420 water is the water that's in the Vodka so it's pure
00:24:28
driven snow and all that sort of stuff so it was just that was the idea um and it was it sort of worked quite well we
00:24:34
we're going okay um and then um it got sold with it got tagged along when they
00:24:41
bikard bought the the Vodka so it was a a good exit and you know after know two years maybe 18 months no two no two and
00:24:50
a half years actually sorry um it was like in and out you know it's like wow
00:24:54
this business Li it's easy did you do quite well out of it oh well I got tagged along so we were
00:25:00
all part of the 42 below shares we all had to buy into the big company and then I had to buy into that one and that got
00:25:07
valued um in probably a generous valuation to be honest because it was like let's just get this deal done you
00:25:13
know no wants to mess around so it was just sort of easy you know and I didn't
00:25:16
have to actually do like I'd done all the building of the business and The Branding and the selling and traveling
00:25:22
around i' done and sourcing all so I'd done all of the work but when it came to
00:25:26
selling it I just got tagged along so I didn't have much to do on that part of
00:25:30
it yeah I feel like this is part of your like I've listened to so many podcasts
00:25:34
over the last few days with you on and you you do seem to downplay a lot of stuff in your life is this oh yeah well
00:25:41
I yeah I don't know when when you've done something well are you good at at
00:25:45
owning it and saying yeah I [ __ ] did really well then or are you just a deflector well I'm from darville right
00:25:51
and it's like if you T poppy thing yeah I think so you just like I was conscious
00:25:57
growing up that do a sh off right and you know I you you stand out when you're
00:26:02
a sh in a small town in New Zealand and sometimes that's good sometimes not so
00:26:07
good you know and I I remember being very much aware of when I was sort of probably too late catching on that
00:26:16
I'd just push myself out into the middle of the ring you know with without realizing it you know what I mean and I
00:26:23
and then it's like ah SH now you know I've done it again you know um and then
00:26:28
you know sometimes I'd be able to box my way out of it and other times you know
00:26:33
there'd be too many people to take down you know so it was like so I think partly that forms it but then the other
00:26:40
part is like internally I don't know there's not I I think I I think I could probably do with
00:26:48
being a bit easier on myself that's part of like I think what I was talking about
00:26:52
before you know trying to re shape or reframe that mindset so that it's um um
00:26:59
you know less self-critical and and maybe U but it's it's also hard wide to
00:27:07
some extent you know it's hard yeah you and I are about the same age and um so
00:27:11
yeah being a blo hard was a thing the last thing you wanted to be was a blow hard which I I suppose part of being a
00:27:17
blow hard is like just talking yourself up about anything yeah well I just would
00:27:22
mine was more physical I would like cuz I was quite good at my sports or doing anything so i' I would always just show
00:27:28
off physically and and verbally but like physically mainly you know and then when
00:27:33
I when I threw you know when I jump on the court bare feet and no and everyone else has been practicing whatever and
00:27:40
I'd throw a three or something from on the basketball court and just you know I
00:27:44
couldn't help myself but tell get bit's face and tell them you know um and that
00:27:48
stuff like that you know just times 100 oh yeah cuz you were really good um you were just a good allrounder right good
00:27:54
at Cricket obviously um but good at rugby and basketball as well lot like Jeff Wilson a je waser well Jeff was a
00:28:02
amazing allrounder um yeah I mean Jeff was my com predator in cricket early on for sure like I actually to such an
00:28:11
extent we would been going at it from an age group he was the he was the number one allrounder and I was like The
00:28:18
Pretender up and coming almost he's a six months younger than me I think but
00:28:23
he was the one in the south is and then I came late into it I grew late so sort of all of a sudden I was challenging him
00:28:30
um and we just used to go head forhead you know and I was like it was great but you do something well and he instead of
00:28:38
him trying to put you down Jeff would just come out and do it better the next time you know and so then you were like
00:28:43
well I'm going to do it better and say and we ended up playing together at Taro
00:28:47
and it was like that and it was such a healthy competition I've never known anyone any competition of after that
00:28:52
that was as healthy as that cuz he just he had this inner belief that he was so good when you did he'll do it better the
00:28:59
next time um and so we used to we used to beat teams by us two Fielding at Mid on and mid off in cricket and just being
00:29:06
we would just compete each other like he'd dive for a ball and miss it by six
00:29:10
feet right and I'd be like what are you doing a show off and then eventually
00:29:14
he'd do the same thing and then he'd get a fingertip to it he'd jump up run after
00:29:18
it pick it up throw and run the guy out and I'd be like so then I'd have to try
00:29:22
and do the same you know and so you just we were just competing each other we weren't even worried about the opp we
00:29:28
were playing so when he got picked for the All Blacks it was just like it was like a I didn't even see it coming I was
00:29:33
like oh my God this like guy's been pulled out of my life who I've been competing with and um and yeah obviously
00:29:40
is a great rugby player as well great all black yeah it's it's mind-blowing
00:29:44
really okay Alo back to the business stuff so yes so 42 below sales to bikard um you still work on bikard though right
00:29:52
I and I heard a story this is where the idea of um getting into skare came about
00:29:57
some dude in a new York moisturizing his hands yeah well I sort of like I did I I
00:30:01
left when the guys left so we all you know got got out um and then um they the guys set up a thing called the bakery
00:30:09
and they invested in about five businesses and I invested in one which was a a a outerwear sort of a like a
00:30:16
gortex a natural gortex out ofwar using Marino wall anyway the um after about a year the science of it failed we
00:30:23
couldn't get enough hydrostatic head and so it sort of we just de we've lost lost on that one so we'll
00:30:31
do that and I got sort of they asked me to come into the beer and I was like ah actually I'm sick of doing alcohol so I
00:30:38
just sort of said oh no I'll step aside and um at that time bardi needed a marketing director so they said oh well
00:30:45
would you like to come back in and work in the marketing for and and you know work under bicat so I was like yeah it
00:30:51
sounds interesting and so I did that for 3 years after after from there and um probably learned more about what what
00:31:01
not to do or just like you know how different corporate life is to ENT entrepreneur life but I it was equally
00:31:08
it was probably ultimately a bit frustrating so it's trying to make a decision within a big corporate
00:31:13
structure that I found really hard you know um so much red tape and you take a rainbow and you know everyone would feel
00:31:22
compelled to add a new color to it or to just change the colors a little bit slightly and so by the time you got to
00:31:27
the end of of it you sort of had this gray cloud because everyone had messed with it you know and it's like trying to
00:31:33
get that idea through that is really was really hard within that environment um and I I but I sort of found it
00:31:40
challenging but I learned a lot um and I sort of also learned the confidence to realize I knew enough about business at
00:31:47
that point too you know it was almost like an endorsement of what I'd learned
00:31:51
with the entrepreneurial guys because I I was able to walk into meetings with guys with double NBAs and hold my own
00:31:56
and you know bounce back ideas and and because I worked on the street selling and doing all of that I sort of knew the
00:32:04
business Inside Out whereas some of them had come in at top level and didn't
00:32:08
really um they knew the theory and they had jobs above me but you know having that confidence of knowing what I was
00:32:14
talking about was was gold so so why skare yeah such a random thing did you have the idea so Random back then well
00:32:24
it was random well mainly because I was trying to find something to do myself I want the challenge was I was I was
00:32:30
ultimately bored that bicardi asked me to move to London um and live over there and at that stage we had I think one if
00:32:36
not two kids very young and I just thought I'm going to be on a plane the whole time away Bernie's going to be
00:32:42
stuck in London by herself with two kids um you know it's not conducive I'd
00:32:46
already lived in the UK um and I just thought I I'm not super inspired about
00:32:51
being in this job you know and I was like if I'm going to ever leave I was still in my 30s um if I'm ever going to
00:32:59
leave and have a go do my own business it's now and ever so I sort of took redundancy instead and left and um uh
00:33:06
when and the last the the story you were referencing my last meeting was with a agency was in New York and um it's about
00:33:15
probably 2009 I guess and there's this the coolest guy in the room was this guy
00:33:19
with a waste coat and a sort of a um sleeve ttoo you know and about halfway through the meeting he pulled out a
00:33:26
woman's hand cream you know and sort of like rubbed it on his hands and I was
00:33:30
like what the heck I was like and I sort of just I guess just pondered on that on
00:33:35
the way home and it was like I mean I've always used moisturizer cuz of cricket
00:33:40
you know we're in the sun I remember find reading an article on Rod Stewart and and how the secret of his Youth and
00:33:48
he said are you always wear Oil of Olay you know and I was like [ __ ] my mom's
00:33:52
got some of that so I remember like filing through her cabinet when I was about 18 finding this pink pot of oil of
00:33:57
o and going little do you know and hiding it in my Cricket coffin I nearly got busted by Ken raford when I was
00:34:04
playing at at Taro he would have been I thought he was this grizzly old guy thinking back he must have been about 32
00:34:09
you know but like I was like I was like about 19 18 and I'm I'm sitting in the
00:34:15
in carisbrook back then you used to have to come under as old carisbrook and the
00:34:20
the the dressing room was up the top up the stairs and at the back and and um so
00:34:25
it's quite a long walk and Ken was a 10 throw really bad and so he we' just
00:34:30
finished bowling he had opened the beding got out cheaply and um I'm I'd
00:34:34
been in the shower so was oblivious to all of this so I've got out of the shower and I'm dipped my hand into this
00:34:39
pink pot of moisturizer and I'm mid downstroke and um the door slams open and his back goes flying across smashes
00:34:49
into the opposition opposite wall and then Ken just sort of stops and he looks at me as I'm like uh you know put my
00:34:55
hand on my face he goes what are you freaking doing and I was like he goes why you putting sunscreen
00:35:01
on this time of day and I was like never never be too safe again and all I going think was so far
00:35:11
outside his framework that I could be putting a moisturizer on you know it's
00:35:14
hard to tag him in it was like it didn't even exist to him so I was like that's
00:35:18
the only thing that saved it so I always thought if I could build something that
00:35:22
was cool enough that if Ken ruford caught me using it it wouldn't be the end of the world cuz it was was so
00:35:28
Innovative at the but by the way that's an interesting story like um we'll get
00:35:31
into more of that with the cricket stuff cuz it's um interesting how different
00:35:34
people react and I feel like Behavior like that probably wouldn't be acceptable now um it's probably still
00:35:40
the odd one yeah but yeah but um like it it doesn't seem very Innovative now
00:35:45
under the 2024 lens but you I mean there's so many competitors as you'd know better than anyone but back then
00:35:50
I've always been a moisturizer guy but I think there was um maybe a limited Clarance range or L'Oreal perhaps for me
00:35:56
but there was [ __ ] all right yeah yeah and what I found actually weirdly cuz I
00:36:00
used it because it really did help in cricket right you're in the Sun the whole time like you so you'd come in and
00:36:05
after a full day in the Sun and you're just like wanted some relief and that's
00:36:09
why I I used it and then you to get this then it extended to getting the sunscreen off you just used a scrub or I
00:36:15
remember there's a Blackmore scrub which they don't make anymore and I remember
00:36:19
going when I finally realized it was selling out I went around to about four chemists and tried to buy up these
00:36:23
things oh like a facial scrub yeah and I was like and cuz they didn't have it and
00:36:26
I was just like so good to clean all that [ __ ] off your face and then to moist but I remember like buying all the
00:36:32
expensive ones as I got as I start earn money i' buy start buying expensive ones
00:36:37
or boring girlfriend's ones or stuff and I just found that actually the way A guy
00:36:41
uses it I want it on and gone I wanted to slap it on I want instant hydration you know which oil of ol was awesome for
00:36:48
um and so I was like man that's the so I sort of stuck with that and then when it
00:36:52
came to developing the product and the range I was like man I've got this sort
00:36:55
of industrial knowledge if I just applied it and then applied The Branding and the marketing side that
00:37:02
I'd learned at 42 I thought you know if I'm into it maybe there's a market there
00:37:07
that was sort of the extent I if I if I did it all again I think I would probably challenge myself harder around
00:37:14
you know the like the perfect I'd start with the biggest possible field of of
00:37:20
who can buy this thing and then work backwards from there you know and because the perfect business is
00:37:26
something that you could only you can make and it's one product and everyone
00:37:30
in the world needs it all the time you know so if that's the if that's the
00:37:34
perfect business yeah you know sort of like you want to sort of like keep as much of that in in the framework as
00:37:41
possible yeah but I mean your products are cool and they're very good as well
00:37:44
yeah thank you I love them I I think early on I messaged you as like have you considered doing an under ey serum so I
00:37:52
think I've been more forward than maybe your average customer oh no we've
00:37:55
appreciated your feedback all all the all the time actually so no we've got a
00:37:59
long long history of every time your you would pop up on the online order where people would run up do is purchased yeah
00:38:06
I I love giving it as um gifts they're just great products um yeah yeah it just seems like such a
00:38:14
fascinating thing to get into like you wouldn't know where to where to start um
00:38:17
but you you look back now so how old's the company now 13 yeah now 13th yeah
00:38:23
are you happy with the name you chose you happy with everything else oh I would do loads of things differ I love
00:38:30
the name um the name's personal to me comes from that red Kipling po if which
00:38:35
my dad who just passed away actually um he gave it to me when I was about 13 I wasn't the great I was a I was a mouthy
00:38:42
Lippy shitty son for most of my teenage years so and he was a stoic farmer so we
00:38:48
didn't talk a lot and um I remember him coming home from Oakland just throwing
00:38:52
this plaque down on my bed one day and saying rude that boy and I sort of graffi all around the outside of it um
00:38:59
but I hadn't I didn't touch the poem and it was such a beautiful poem with all
00:39:03
these wonderful pieces of advice you know um one of which is if you can meet with Triumph and disaster and treat
00:39:08
those two imposters the same um but it's all these other things like you know if
00:39:12
you can walk with Kings and not lose a common touch if you can you know Heap up all of your winnings and risk it on one
00:39:19
coin toss and lose and never breathe the word of your lost you know there just these wonderful ideas as a young man I
00:39:25
got goosebumps just heing just wonderful like that actually that one that putting
00:39:31
all your winnings and losing it all and never breathing with still that I'm the
00:39:35
same I just get sort of like ah man that's such how life is Right you've got
00:39:40
to you've got to live that way you know risk and reward and humility and honor
00:39:44
all those things so um yeah so I'm sort of so the name's great I also think even
00:39:50
if you don't know the poem you know the idea of our lives are part Triumph and
00:39:54
disaster using skin care as part Triumph and disaster so I like all of that um I
00:40:00
think I would you know probably I should have moved to America if I'm really
00:40:05
honest you know like um that because it's a niche um businesses that probably
00:40:11
I I think haven't done as good a job as I did have already blown up and sold in
00:40:16
America in the same time frame so you have to be in a big market and with there breadth and size um New Zealand's
00:40:24
been great don't get me wrong but you know it's ultimately 5 million people
00:40:28
you know spread across a a whole country so we've had to do it the hard way by
00:40:33
traveling and doing Distributors and things like that but you know I it's also got to fit with your lifestyle
00:40:38
right so I wanted my kids to grow up here I I love New Zealand love living here and you know our our lives have
00:40:45
been great in a whole bunch of other ways by staying here so you can't you know I wouldn't change anything really
00:40:52
it's it's hard like 1% of um the New Zealand Market versus 1% of the American
00:40:56
Market 1% of the American Market you're you're hanging out with Zuckerberg and
00:41:01
um what have been the the hardest challenges cuz you you've been through a lot of the global financial crisis was
00:41:06
that were you just after that or just after yeah so just after sort of started at the end of that um the biggest
00:41:12
challenges of have always are always cash flow you know like um and managing that and and you know dealing with the
00:41:23
fear of running out of money and the fear of spending all the you know we sold our house when we started it and I
00:41:30
took a bunch of money off off out of that and put it in and then you know um so you know you walk around with the
00:41:37
sort of guilt of like spending not just my money but my wife's money um and um
00:41:43
and you know so so there's all of those things but I mean it's been you know
00:41:50
learning how to manage staff learning that I've I've had so many great staff
00:41:54
all the way through but staff leave you know sometimes you've got to let good
00:41:58
stuffff go too just through circumstance that that's horrible um other times good
00:42:04
stuff leave and that feels like that's that feeling of like you can't help but
00:42:09
feel that you a bit let down but you but it's just their life that they're going
00:42:13
on with you know so then you've got to sell the dream to the new person whilst
00:42:16
feeling a little bit hurt that the person's left you know like a breaker it's like it's like you know there's all
00:42:21
these things you got to learn how to manage and I didn't have any experience
00:42:25
with any of that um so um uh yeah what but this last bit with the pandemic was really hard I think
00:42:33
emotionally a lot of small businesses in New Zealand have been emotionally rung out
00:42:39
um you know you this the people own small businesses by proportion of the population was a
00:42:45
really small percentage right and so no one care everyone if you're a business
00:42:50
owner everyone thinks just assumes you're going to be rich or you're rich
00:42:53
or whatever they don't give us stuff that you what you've had to go through
00:42:56
to get there and so and that's fair enough everyone's on their own Journey
00:42:59
but I think um through that period you had to carry the um so the worries of all of your staff you had the
00:43:07
uncertainty for all of them and financial uncertainty and just just their anxieties and their Partners
00:43:13
anxieties and whilst not knowing what the future for your own business was so there was a a big period of time through
00:43:20
there where it was like just emotionally draining and I think coming out the other side you know a lot of the
00:43:26
businesses that maybe are no longer or small businesses have just W that was probably more the emotional just you
00:43:33
know exhaustion than the financial side of it in many cases so I think that that
00:43:39
was tiring getting through that and now of course right now it's again really
00:43:44
tricky so just constant challenges eh yeah yeah well actually um you know Shane McKellan who was actually actually
00:43:50
the guy got me into 42 below and um he always said um business business is just prob solving problems you know and it's
00:43:58
sort of true like um it is just solving the next problem and finding solution and just accepting that there is just
00:44:08
constantly going to be another another Boulder face and I think I think well I think there a difference to sport see
00:44:13
sport you have like um there's an end to it you know you get to play a game win
00:44:17
or lose and then celebrate or or you know uh start again um whereas with business it's like just constant there's
00:44:25
no not really any end and um I I think that lowlevel constant pressure is harder that for me to deal with
00:44:34
personally than Peak pressure like you know I I used to relish the peak pressure um not always succeed with it
00:44:42
sometimes that would you know you'd fail miserably under it but I sort of enjoyed
00:44:48
that whereas the long slow sort of grind pressur is I find a little bit more tiring or you've got to find coping
00:44:55
strategies to to deal with did has has there ever been any occasion where you've thought about just closing the
00:45:00
doors or just throwing it in selling it selling it to someone in the last week or or over the whole time every
00:45:11
every second day no um no oh yeah look yes and no I think you have bad nights early
00:45:19
on early on you have lots of bad nights where you can't sleep and so you um you
00:45:24
know spreadsheets become your friend because especially when you're burning money
00:45:29
ahead of the curve like you know it's invoid it's unavoidable right you you
00:45:34
only making 50k a month and you spent spending 70k a month it's like far out
00:45:40
this is how much longer can I keep doing this for you know and so um the the spreadsheet you wake up you know when
00:45:47
you wake up at 2: in the morning and you're like oh my God what am I going to
00:45:51
do what can I tell my wife and then so I used to when I had those nights I'd go
00:45:55
and I'd just open up a spr sh and I'd like run all the numbers and I'd be like
00:45:59
how many shops do I have to get how many units they have to sell I'd just like do
00:46:03
all the math and I'd get to the end of it after an hour or so of like pointless
00:46:06
exercise and it would be like oh I've only got to get 15 more accounts okay I'll just go and do that but that that
00:46:13
that was sort of a coping strategy for a while and then at a certain point you know you you learn to deal with all of
00:46:19
that um just the E and flows the business yeah yeah yeah and what about the future of the company um well we
00:46:26
still it's not done yet and I guess you know coming back to your point about you
00:46:29
know being before getting too self Cong what's the word congratulatory congratulatory yourself on the back yeah
00:46:37
before I get like that I I think like um I don't feel like it will have really
00:46:42
succeeded until um you know either I can either it's making so much money that I
00:46:46
can step out of it and not have to worry or or it's wealth it's worthwhile for
00:46:52
someone to buy it you know and um and you know those it's um you know those two things are still a we way off it's
00:46:59
like um you know we've got I'm emplo I'm an employee I get paid by the business
00:47:04
but it's um you know there's still a growth curve needed um and you know a
00:47:09
lot of that was probably has been extended out a few years due to that Co so and not alone in that you know that's
00:47:16
probably three years going sideways we didn't account for no knowing what you
00:47:20
know now you just was your stay in marketing maybe not with bikard but no no no I don't I don't I like like you
00:47:28
I'm really I am really proud of what we've done and achieved and I like I've
00:47:31
just personally it's so stimulating you know it's I got into it because it was
00:47:35
the only thing that scared scared me you know and I'm sort of I needed that um
00:47:40
you know I needed to be playing for real um and I felt like um I still am you know I'm still in the game which is
00:47:49
which keeps me getting up I get up every morning I love going to work um you know
00:47:53
I've I'm I'm trying to find new new ways to build the business there's always new
00:47:59
things to learn um you know we would have lik to have done done it quicker better yes of course um but what would I
00:48:07
do after this you know you got to you got to do something with your time right um and so I think staying sort of
00:48:14
stimulated is is super important for me and you know as long as I'm stimulated
00:48:18
I'm okay yeah I I agree like um I even think like retirement is a bit of a hoax
00:48:24
in a way like you need a you need a purpose e like you need a reason to get out of bed in the morning oh 100% yeah
00:48:31
no I I think my father worked to as 84 he sold this farm at 84 and I reckon you know that that was sort of The Benchmark
00:48:41
it's like I I sort of feel like you've got to just keep working you got to be
00:48:44
stimulated right I think there's different ways of work I think you know dropping back to four days a week you
00:48:50
know doing different types of work do if just grinding out the same work over time maybe that's that becomes a bit
00:48:55
more tiring but yeah you got to be stimulated involved but I I also just like I'm you know I'm
00:49:02
enjoy my kids sport and coaching and you know just getting involved in other parts of the community now as well you
00:49:08
know so I think you know there I say it like Community is where it's at you know
00:49:14
I think like you got to be involved eh you know that the all the ills that we see out there at the moment my big thing
00:49:20
is like lots of people have lots to say about it but [ __ ] all people are getting
00:49:25
out and getting involved in their in their Community you know yeah oh good on you okay let's let's get back to the
00:49:30
early years so you're from Northland daville yep and what what's s of farm
00:49:34
what sort of farm will you race on was it a dairy farm no no not don't thankfully was yeah I was the worst fun
00:49:42
boy either like we I I came off the farm not not really being able to drive a tractor hard could hardly ride a
00:49:48
motorcycle was dangerous with a gun you know like I was like you know shoot I got all the [ __ ] jobs I was dead would
00:49:55
like in you know had to go and round sheep and we had dry stock so sheep and cattle and I just just man I think back
00:50:03
now I cringe I cringe how I perform for I remember driving across the farm one day and sulking and dad was and you know
00:50:11
I was trying to make it and would have been about 14 or 15 something maybe 16 just that age where you started to push
00:50:17
back and challenge authority and I just said to my father one I said said you just don't get it then and he and he
00:50:25
goes he looks at me and I go and I'm I'm a race horse not a cdale and as soon as
00:50:30
the words came out of my mouth as soon as the words came out of my mouth I was just like oh I just I
00:50:37
never worked so hard as I did that day you know I was like oh man I've just lost a Year's Grace you know I can't it
00:50:44
was so bad what did he say like an old an old um an old Grizzly F from up North did he just buy his t or he didn't need
00:50:50
to say anything because it was just I was so embarrassed once it came out I was like oh where did it come from did
00:50:55
you see it on a movie on a TV oh I don't know I was just like I just felt like he
00:50:58
was working me too hard like you know like I you know all my mates would be at the beach and I'd be going out you know
00:51:04
feeding out hay or doing some sort of shitty fencing job and I was just like oh man come
00:51:09
on so yes so you he was older are you dad like he was uh yeah yeah so Dad yeah 40s when he had you 42 I think yeah so
00:51:21
um yeah so I'm the baby baby of six yeah and um a disabled sister uh yes well H so yes she was the next
00:51:30
one yeah Sharon so she she just had the umbilical cord around her right and because of small town hospital they they
00:51:38
didn't really if she had have been in Oakland probably would have been fine they would have just got on to it
00:51:42
quicker but you know you know I don't know 10 seconds too long with without oxygen at the birth and that that sort
00:51:48
of causes that brain damage she's I mean she's um she's one wonderful um you know
00:51:55
in emotionally huge part of the family but um you know can't really couldn't live
00:52:01
in a flat by herself or cook a meal for herself she could go and eat get herself
00:52:06
sort of organized but can't can't talk so nonverbal um but you know um you know
00:52:14
but totally you know what she's on about you know in terms of um if particularly
00:52:18
if it's an emotional thing um she's and and I think to that end you know she's
00:52:23
sort of the almost the core of the family way [ __ ] I can't imagine how tough that was for you you like your
00:52:29
parents in particular I've got some friends like that John PJ who are just wonderful parents and um they've got a
00:52:34
son son and daughter and uh the the yeah the daughter similar sort of thing at Birth and um yeah they'd go out on
00:52:41
family holidays and Vonnie just couldn't adjust to the time zone so she'd be up
00:52:44
at 3 in the morning stomping around and then uh like later on they'd just go on
00:52:49
holidays with with sha and leave Vonny behind with a caregiver and you know they're just the most wonderful parents
00:52:54
and the wonderful family but I can't imagine the guilt they f without even doing that yeah H yeah and I Look to be
00:53:00
to be honest like I remember you know i' i' when it was just me and chairing at home I remember going
00:53:07
and waiting at the bus stop you know and standing to one side not really associating you know and I I always look
00:53:15
back and I'm like you know what can you do you're young and stupid you're craw
00:53:19
kids are craw you don't even realize it um what was it yeah like what was your
00:53:25
relationship like with your dad like cuz it's um I mean you and I are in our
00:53:29
early 50s now so it it doesn't seem that old at all but when you're young you
00:53:33
just want to I don't know I'm probably projecting here but you just want to fit
00:53:36
him with every everyone else you don't want to have an old dad no and dad was
00:53:39
an old dad like well actually we we weirdly I think at the end they've stay they stayed really young but when I was
00:53:46
when I was young they seemed really old you know cuz all my mates they 30 year-old my dad M mine my 50s you know
00:53:53
and it was like and um so yeah I mean how' I get on oh look dad was great um but he was an older dad so
00:54:02
he'd been through the mill with everyone you know and baby of the family yeah his
00:54:07
job's done the older kids can raise you and I probably benefit both benefited
00:54:13
from that but also probably rallied against it you know like I probably wanted but he was always involved he
00:54:18
drove I mean man mom and dad drove me um I mean mom's interesting as well like
00:54:22
Mom is was a paraplegic so um so Mom was in a wheelchair from about 22 um they got married when they were 20 so they
00:54:31
got married real young and um through a medical misadventure um she had appendix
00:54:37
and they something went wrong and they they damaged her spine in the in the operation and then when the when she had
00:54:45
her my older sister the that that that exacerbated it and so she sort of lost the use of her legs um and so you know
00:54:55
Mom and Dad tried to had to live through all of that and you know it wasn't like
00:54:59
a complete it didn't happen like just like that you know it happened over 10 years
00:55:04
that that she sort of lost um and people tried to have operations to fix it so that would have been a really trying
00:55:11
time way before I was bornn um and so I sort of like always felt a little bit like man these these guys have been
00:55:19
through a lot and you know they're driving me all around the place and so I was always sort of quite grateful but
00:55:26
yeah it always felt like the nashes were turning up you know I'd turn up and dad
00:55:29
would turn up in a big Falcon and an old dad with mom in a wheelchair and my handicap sister and I was like and then
00:55:35
I'd be like this like running off to play cricket you know so it was a you get older and you have so much guilt
00:55:41
about that stuff like you look back but at the time you just want to fit in and be like I could I was just trying to get
00:55:46
out into the middle as quickly as I could but yeah and what about the rest of the family cuz one of those books
00:55:50
that I started with um there's a a throwaway line on there was like you say something like your greatest achievement
00:55:56
in cricket is getting your brother to turn up to one of your matches yeah well he wasn't much of a cricketer he was he
00:56:02
was a um yeah my brother was uh thought I think he thought he was Jim Morrison for for a while so he was a bit of a
00:56:09
loose rugby player up from up North you know he play was very talented rugby player talented artist and but ended up
00:56:16
working on the farm with Dad so I think he was he had his own battles for dead I
00:56:21
think um so yeah their oldest son classic oldest son expected to work on the farm and you know I think he was
00:56:28
just you know trying too needed to probably get away himself um but no he he eventually came around to enjoying
00:56:36
cricket and watching it and you know they're all really proud of me so and you know I've got great relationships
00:56:43
with them all really but they all are quite different you know and I think you do over over the course of that that
00:56:49
nature nurture thing you know that you know you do I am different to them you know it's like
00:56:56
I grew up in a different era almost to to them you know they were almost 60s 70 70s children you know you know and I
00:57:03
grew up really for at least a decade if not more 15 years um different um and it's just different times parents were
00:57:12
much more chilled out all the dramas of you know whatever that they that kids got up to back then what had run through
00:57:20
and I I was just left to walk through walk through behind you know that was pretty sweet um was was it
00:57:29
was it quite a strict discipline household though like yeah it was Dad was dad was we you know we grew up um
00:57:36
Mom and Dad were catholic so they grew up in like quite a not not super religious but it was always there you
00:57:42
expected to go to church on a Sunday and I I rallied against that quite you know
00:57:47
I just couldn't understand why I had to do that um and you know but and dad was
00:57:53
a quite a quite a stripped guy like he was a boxer and um and and a hard worker and
00:58:02
so you know between between all of those there wasn't a lot of sort of give and
00:58:07
take you know it was like here's how it's going to be and you know like like
00:58:11
it ormp it you know so um but you know there was always love and care and you know I never felt physically threatened
00:58:19
or you know I had a great upbringing really but you know you do rally against discipline I think as a young youngster
00:58:28
don't you yeah that sounds um that sounds so similar to mine like religious household felt like I was I look back I
00:58:34
feel like I was getting whacked with the belt all the time all the time mom wouldn't never do it she like you wait
00:58:40
till your father get home gets home and then hours later wouldd be over the bed getting the belt for something you
00:58:46
couldn't even remember what and then if if we got in trouble for something and
00:58:49
Mom couldn't prove if it was real or not she would just be like well God will
00:58:52
punish you God sees everything [ __ ] I remember being marched up by the nuns marched up in the middle of the
00:58:59
afternoon uh for something I'd done and I at school and I was just like all I
00:59:04
could think of was like you guys have got no idea how bad this is going to be when my father gets home please don't
00:59:10
take me in there please don't take me in there [ __ ] you I did that once to the
00:59:14
police me and a bunch of mates we had some um little fireworks like double happies or whatever we went around and
00:59:20
we like knock on someone's doorstep light one and then run away and then we got taken home by the police and I was
00:59:25
after leave when Matthew got dropped off I was dropped off and I was like please
00:59:28
please can you just drop me off around the corner like you don't understand what's going to happen to me I was
00:59:33
probably 15 16 at the time I don't think I got a whack that time from memory and
00:59:36
I think I think that was sort of Line in the Sand like I didn't get a whack after
00:59:39
that yeah yeah there's definitely stiffing points right but um so then so so you um so you finished your school in
00:59:47
ockland right so you're in daville you got a is it Oakland grar for your final
00:59:51
Orland grar finishing school yeah so we were you just like um we were you just like an out Talent so they were like we
00:59:57
need to harness this talent and get this kid to the big smoke or I never felt that oh well yeah I mean I was obviously
01:00:04
talented I'd made it all the way through I was playing rep Cricket for Northern
01:00:07
districts and we played a tournament in in counties and P um out that way and um
01:00:15
with pooi and um uh I remember my f seeing my father talking to the ockland coach we're playing ockland and I
01:00:23
remember thinking like Dad would never speak to the coaches you know so I was like what's he doing speaking to the O
01:00:30
he probably doesn't even know that's the Oakland coach he's talking to you know
01:00:33
and um anyway I remember so we drove topped in the car after the game was the last game of the tournament we drove
01:00:38
home and about halfway home to darville he goes are how would you feel about going to con GMA next
01:00:44
year um and I was like yeah sounds great and then the the opposition coach was the grar uh cricket coach Graham Sim and
01:00:57
I don't know what sort of deal that worked out but next thing I knew I was found myself sort of arriving down at
01:01:02
tb's house on Mountain Road and and I was enrolled at grammar and yeah then I
01:01:08
it was just like it was it was sort of magic you know like I Pro I I was all set to do another my final year at
01:01:14
darville um high and that would have been fine you know I was playing senior Club Cricket for Northland I was already
01:01:20
sort of on my way I was on the I'd been Rec recognized as at that stage so I
01:01:26
probably but but where it did change was like just my schooling and coming across
01:01:34
that Winners attitude that they have at Oakland grammar you know like I ended up
01:01:37
playing getting in the first 15 um as a squad as well you know and um uh I remember walking in at the going
01:01:46
into the headmaster's office after being picked in the first 15 and um he set
01:01:51
everybody down and just John Graham and you know he was this man of immense Manor and sort of staunch as and he just
01:01:59
goes I just want you all to understand everybody who plays you this year will play their best game of rugby against
01:02:06
you and he said you are the number one target every if they if a team beats you and they lose every other game of the
01:02:15
season they'll have had a great season because they've beaten you he said so
01:02:20
zero excuses you know that's how it's going to be every team is going to be a
01:02:25
tough game and it was just the first time in my life that I'd heard you know
01:02:29
that Winner's perspective of like you're number one you know you're are you are
01:02:34
the target um and you didn't don't get that much in New Zealand you know maybe
01:02:39
if you're an all black or or only really sort of at a school like Oakland grammar
01:02:43
and um and for that lesson alone I think it was really really really valuable you
01:02:50
know cuz it was like wow that you can be out in front you can be the number one target you don't you're not always
01:02:57
fighting you know as the underdog you know um and so I really enjoyed that you know and I actually flourished there you
01:03:06
know um it's funny cuz early on you just told that story about you and Jeff Wilson sort of driving each other on so
01:03:11
I'm guessing 16 17 year old Dion from the country in Oakland same sort of thing you're surrounded by people that
01:03:18
are pushing you did you did you um did you feel like hot [ __ ] coming down or did you feel like an impostor like [ __ ]
01:03:26
I don't belong here did you feel like you were good enough to be here I felt
01:03:29
like I needed to prove myself fully like I was really determined to prove myself
01:03:33
I didn't feel like hot [ __ ] I felt I I knew a couple of guys there there was um
01:03:38
you know Blair pook who I'd played against and with um Mike cig um who was a very good cricketer and I played a lot
01:03:45
with um he was around um Matt horn had just left so I sort of had KN known a few people but um uh no I I I didn't
01:03:55
there was none of there I just went down really determined I saw it for what it was which was an opportunity um you know
01:04:01
and I thought I'm taking this with both hands you know and I I I just had a great year it was like you know I I won
01:04:08
the batting award I didn't win the bowling award actually um which is you know probably the one I thought I would
01:04:14
go down and win end up winning the batting award and and I and and just having this great year we won
01:04:20
but being in the hostel you know meeting all those guys hanging out with guys who
01:04:26
were in 7A and 7B academically I wasn't I was in way way down in 7f but hanging
01:04:33
out with them in the hosel and learning how the hard they were studying was like
01:04:37
oh wow so this is just like training you know is okay just go do the hours and you know guess what you get better you
01:04:44
know um stuff like that which I just hadn't been exposed to um and so I just
01:04:50
I just loved it I was like a sponge um and DJ Graham was so amazing as a Headmaster you know the the effect that
01:05:00
that guy had over so many boys that went through those schools you know um that school I should say um you know he he he
01:05:08
just he was a man of principle and and simple basic rules and if you followed those you okay you know and if and but
01:05:18
he he would accept your argument if it was different if he didn't care about it
01:05:22
but if it were half-hearted and it was a flaky argument man he got SP around so quick it was it was like you know um so
01:05:30
yeah no it was it was just great and what also happened is all lots of those guys that I met at Grandma were going on
01:05:36
to University and and so that's what sort of ultimately got me to UNI you know so you went to aago did you yeah
01:05:41
what did you want to do then did you did you want to be a New Zealand cricketer did you have a career plan yeah I no my
01:05:47
only career plan was to make the cricket team and buy enough time from my parents
01:05:50
that I could do it and wouldn't have to work in the mill or the farm so it was
01:05:54
like man I'm just like uni uni sign me up um so yeah I started out I started out doing law cuz you know
01:06:01
that that pleased everybody uh and then I failed well I passed law in my first year but had had to pass much better
01:06:08
than I did um and so I ended up doing a ba um in sociology and his art history and all the the big names how's that
01:06:17
working out for you these days coming in handy actually it was the best degree I
01:06:21
ever could have done it was um so like it's a study of people right so it was
01:06:26
like uh you know it ends up being really great for marketing but I I always say i' I really I learned how to think at
01:06:34
University you know I'd been learning how to just regurgitate things by rout
01:06:39
prior to that and um I always remember in history American history this um uh I was really struggling I needed to get
01:06:48
this paper to finish my La last year and and the exams coming up and I've been
01:06:53
writing longer and longer essays you know and I've been getting C's and C
01:06:56
minuses and I was like man this and this lady Professor I can't remember her name
01:07:01
was just it felt so personal it was like she's crushing me she doesn't doesn't
01:07:06
and I remember meeting a guy who's doing honors and he was in my class and I was
01:07:10
like and I just said man I'm I don't know what I'm doing wrong but you know
01:07:15
I'm just struggling he goes well what are you struggling he goes and sort of
01:07:19
told him and he goes ah dude you just have to imagine that you were there and I was like what do you mean he goes just
01:07:26
put yourself there like you like you know and he used the examples of the of Jackson and the Indians putting them
01:07:33
Jackson put them on the reserves and you know retrospectively it's this big deal
01:07:38
you know these people were put off their lands on the reserves but at the time it
01:07:42
was just Jackson solving a problem and going man I just don't I just want this
01:07:46
problem solved and out of my way so I can get my voters to vote for me and and so when you put yourself back into the
01:07:53
times and think about what he was dealing with it's a Al different aspect of History than what we when we look
01:07:59
back with that lens you know and so thinking that taught me to think you know that's interesting and um was it a
01:08:06
good time down there it was rich for sports right Mark Alis was down there who who who were you rubbing shoulders
01:08:11
with no yeah know well Mark and Josh corfield and sort of Aaron p and and John teu that was the sort of John
01:08:19
Lesley they were all the they were and you know they were the Legends down there cuz they were the in the vity 18
01:08:25
and a Target team um so I was I was off to the side with all the cricketers um but um any cricketers have not who was
01:08:33
uh uh well Jeff Wilson wasn't at Uni but he was playing down there um Ken Rutherford was there so we we did really
01:08:41
well we got into the finals when we we had a good team Mark Richardson came down towards the end um and um who else
01:08:51
yeah there's I've boun just have insulted a whole bunch of people but um
01:08:55
the yeah but the um but yeah no I mean but hanging out at Uni was just great you know and we worked hard played hard
01:09:02
you know it was it was just fun all the time there's always something on yeah
01:09:06
any um any good University stories that you can share CU it was around this time
01:09:10
didn't Mar Ellis get done for like drunk driving he was riding around on a scooter with like a watermelon on his
01:09:15
head oh yeah there was loads of stuff like that I remember uh I mean look yeah most of it you can't really
01:09:21
tell if I'm honest a lot of these stories don't a lot of these stories don't age well yeah no that's right
01:09:26
that's I did hear a story about you on another podcast um you you you were at a
01:09:31
pear jam concert you in the front row Shir off um Eddie VI got a mouth full of wine spat it on the crowd and you opened
01:09:38
your Gob I got a got a good Gob fill in yeah I thought I'd been like blessed
01:09:43
from like you know on high so that sort of paints a picture of the sort of Dion Nash where we dealing within early I
01:09:51
also turned up I one I can tell is I a few years l later that pill Jam were back and um we play we played I think
01:10:00
either Australia or Zimbabwe in Oakland and there's a pill Jam concert at Mount
01:10:04
smart and um that night and so I was like um came back to my flat afterwards you know we' won the game he runs on a
01:10:13
high runs cocktails and stuff and so I put my my fian cow pants sort of pants on that I bought in London I've got like
01:10:21
some sort of like sleeveless top girlfriend's painted like my hands black fingernails you know and probably you
01:10:27
know I don't know what else they had on you know you know and I'm like anyway
01:10:33
we tune up and go to this concert and have this great night with my mates at this concert you know and I'd arrange to
01:10:39
meet the guys at um at uh guasu which is on panel rise afterwards and um anyway so you know about 11:30 at night 12:00
01:10:50
night we've left the console get in there and all the cricket teams in that gr having having their drinks and so I I
01:10:56
joined them and I'm sort of out of the cabin I'm walking in and this guy this older
01:11:03
gentleman jumps up from the table at the front of guasu and comes down and then meets me and he comes up and he sticks
01:11:08
his hand out goes Dion great game today mate and I was like oh all I could see is like my hand was coming out was black
01:11:15
fingernail polished as I was like I was trying to put my hand on the name I was like oh thanks mate like and you know
01:11:23
all the opposition team were in there it's like all you know when you're all
01:11:26
of a sudden you're like oh not everything translates as like it should yeah cuz it's it's um yeah it's worth
01:11:32
like highlighting it's a different time back then as well you guys just weren't
01:11:36
wearing nail po no no it was there it wasn't wasn't done I remember yeah it
01:11:41
was quite well received at the concert people were like went down okay there but not so much with your sports Manel R
01:11:48
different look for different group of friends so um yeah so so so you make the New Zealand cricket team um you you were
01:11:55
quite inexperienced right I don't know a lot about Cricket but it sounds like i'
01:11:58
play three I'd played three games yeah it was ridiculous it was crazy we in hindsight like having been a selector
01:12:05
yourself were you like FasTrack too quickly I mean it worked out good well I yes I absolutely was yeah I absolutely
01:12:13
was like and you know what what happens is you what it what it did AO is fast trct way too quick so I went away on
01:12:20
tour but where it really became problematic was then I I had to go back to domestic Cricket after that and all
01:12:29
of these hardened domestic players who had been overlooked for me then just had it in for me so then I just copped it
01:12:36
really bad for like probably two seasons you know like you know and I was always
01:12:41
you know everyone's accusing me of you know getting screwed by the captain or
01:12:44
you know like and you know blowing the coach yeah it was all you know and and but when you're 20 21 years of age it's
01:12:53
but you don't have the coping strategy to have it when a 35y old man's just
01:12:57
abusing you for an hour and a half at a time you know and it's like you just
01:13:01
don't really understand it you know and you look back now it just wouldn't it
01:13:05
wouldn't be acceptable now you know but like back then the Umpire did nothing
01:13:10
you just young guy just stood there in the middle while you're Banning and you
01:13:14
just have a a team abusing you for two hours and then you you know and you're
01:13:18
like it was just sort of like the the way it was I'm not blaming anyone that
01:13:23
was the culture of the cricket scene and it was sort of ugly um and you know we I'm no saint I went on to do things like
01:13:31
that myself to young players later you know and it's like you look back now and
01:13:35
you're like man what on Earth why didn't someone step in and that that was never
01:13:40
the right way to for any of us to have been behaving but it's also human nature
01:13:44
right like some young punk gets plays three games and gets picked in the black caps and you've played Five Seasons and
01:13:51
you've taken all these wickets and you're clearly a better player like what
01:13:55
you're not going to tune up and give them a easy ride are you you're going be
01:13:58
into them no but I suppose uh the way to do it now would just be to let your Cricket do the talking like bow you know
01:14:05
make this guy look like a fool and there were some players who did that too right
01:14:08
so it wasn't everyone but um but you know but quite often you you know you there'd be a couple of Hit Men Who would
01:14:14
do the majority of it you know do and the fact that you're bringing up now I
01:14:19
suppose this maybe answers my question but it did it sort of taint your experience yeah I I came back from my
01:14:24
first tour and I didn't want to play for black caps ever again wow yeah and it
01:14:28
took me a year in the wilderness to sort of go away and just work out and get my
01:14:33
love for the game back um yeah and you know um I there's a whole bunch to that I was too young I
01:14:41
was too IMM mature emotionally not up for it um got it had wasn't treated that
01:14:47
well um didn't perform very well thing got dropped thing got bullied thing got
01:14:53
you know so it was all of the stuff and you're just like man think I might just
01:14:56
go do something else you know bully by or you know just in the domestic scene you just I just once you got back but
01:15:02
then all a sudden it was like I I actually remember I played a game in luget which they had this all whites
01:15:08
versus All Blacks which was before we were the black caps we were the all and they had this game in lugger and um all
01:15:14
some of the old All Blacks would play the cricketers in um this game and I I got taken along to it and played in it
01:15:22
and I remember afterwards um uh uh it was um Robbie Deans and um uh Ellen houon Robbie Deans Ellen
01:15:32
Houston and Kieran Crowley oh wow sat me down in the this hotel room with a and had a beer and I was just like sitting
01:15:39
with these Le right and and um they said oh so what's the story you've been dropped and
01:15:46
I was like yeah and you know I like oh it's okay you know and they they're like
01:15:49
they like it's okay what are you talking about and I was like oh you know then
01:15:54
you guys they just deserve to be there you know and I was and politically correct and they were like [ __ ] off mate
01:16:01
what do you what do you mean it's okay don't you want to be there don't you
01:16:03
don't you think you're good enough and they just drilled me for and I was like
01:16:08
I remember thinking man that's how Champions think you know what am I doing I'm just suling
01:16:14
being a twit um and I always remember that and I sort of like you know it was that difference between how great rugby
01:16:23
all blacks were thinking and in the environment that was the cricket environment at that time I'd been just
01:16:29
I'd just been left alone and no one had got around me and said hey shake this
01:16:34
funk you know off and get back in on the horse you know um but these guys did they recognized it and far I so
01:16:42
appreciated it I've never I don't think I've seen any of them ever since
01:16:46
actually to say thank you but um and it was one of those things I from that game
01:16:51
on I just had this instant change of attitude and I was like like that was that was me getting back on the horse
01:16:57
straight after that game then ended up making the New Zealand team again and just the reset you needed eh yeah yeah
01:17:03
but it was that winnner thinking you know like Robbie Deans in particular I just remember him drilling me straight
01:17:10
before straight in the forehead going what are you saying mate where are you know I was like oh man I it was it was
01:17:19
just the fire I needed you know it was perfect and in the um the New Zealand team environment and those those early
01:17:25
years when you're a young player is it was it quite a supportive environment or
01:17:29
was it sort of every was it quite clicky clicky um I think the players would say
01:17:34
they were supportive in their own ways and but they had they were the product of their environment right so they were
01:17:40
only it was an individual sport Semi-Pro u a couple of superstars the rest of the
01:17:46
people were teachers in the off season and you know part-time trying to struggle to make it you know travel the
01:17:53
world have a few beers it was sort of so you know I we were the cusp of that early stage of true professionalism
01:18:02
and um you know it was only towards the end of my career that we were actually getting paid properly and professional
01:18:07
and had the support structures starting to come around so um yeah I mean look it
01:18:13
wasn't all bad they were good people all the way through you know um and and but
01:18:18
people were focused on getting their own job done you know that was a hard tough
01:18:22
environment you know guys like Andrew Jones I remember being ad admiring how he went about things but he didn't have
01:18:27
any room for me in that you know cuz it was like he had to get his job done you know Martin Crow the same you know like
01:18:34
um you know th those guys were Legends and and amazing but they didn't have time to build the culture or they didn't
01:18:43
have the enough support around to build a culture that brought everyone else into that or showed the pathway to that
01:18:49
um which you know that I don't put that blame on them at all that's just a time
01:18:55
in place you know if they had have been given the support structures the modern day teams have imagine what we could
01:19:01
they could have achieved yeah would also yeah you you look at the alls at the same time there was a whole like back
01:19:06
row of the bus thing and you know if you're a junior player the senior players wouldn't even talk to you or
01:19:11
acknowledge Your Existence it's just just how it was yeah m m actually made the um remember that there used to be
01:19:16
those old black trials you know the possibles and problems a m mine uh made the possibles one year and he was like
01:19:22
opposite Fitzy Sean Fitz Patrick and he saw him in the the hotel for some breakfast and he went up to him and
01:19:27
introduced himself and said oh you know any chance of sitting down and picking your brains and F he told him to [ __ ]
01:19:33
off I feel like it's a different environment now different culture and and society and sport in general yeah
01:19:40
it's I mean so many things have changed but yeah none of that surprises you right that I can exactly imagine that
01:19:47
happening yeah um I said let's talk some of the highs and some of the lows so one
01:19:52
of the highs I'm guessing 1994 and Lords which is the H Cricket you become the
01:19:57
first person ever to score 50 then take 11 wickets in a test yeah yeah um so you so you went on as a batsman so
01:20:05
you weren't particularly good at batting at that level I I had been a good batter
01:20:09
through youth Cricket you you I I sort of always wish I had have taken my batting a bit more seriously because it
01:20:16
but in the end it's the you know the the quickest and easiest route that you take
01:20:21
right and I ended up that ended up being bowling but as a young player I was probably is got a better as bowler but
01:20:27
over time the bowling took over um so I could always bet um I wish I had have given it more now because that would
01:20:35
have given me longevity and it's also one of those things that I don't feel
01:20:39
like my statistics or my or really do justice to how good a player I was does it do does it bother you now or of
01:20:46
course does it like when like sometimes in the shower is it something you think about
01:20:53
or when you're driving the car just pops up randomly you can't control when it
01:20:57
pops in but like no I mean also like the um you know I got injured a lot right so you it was just
01:21:07
the bowling side I was always playing injured in the second half of my career so you're always dealing with injuries
01:21:13
and recovering from injury so you even the windows that you got were always never quite pure you know they were
01:21:20
always there was always something limiting you or holding you back or whatever and so being a better and being
01:21:26
a better batsman um than I than my statistics showed I I I probably should have put
01:21:31
that to the Forefront and really driven that side of it but again I just mentally wasn't up for that challenge at
01:21:37
the time you know like you just you get worn down by a bunch of things and you take the easiest route I think but um
01:21:43
yeah I mean I I I I do pride myself I I it's one of those things that you know
01:21:49
like everything is in its place but that I went to a friends one of my best mates
01:21:54
got married in Jamaica Married An American um girl and that they and we went to the wedding in Jamaica and it
01:22:01
was this beautiful amazing wedding in The Cliffs and off the cliffs in Jamaica and um in American weddings you have the
01:22:08
the wedding before the wedding which is of run through but that's when all the
01:22:12
actual speeches take place so it's sort of like it's more formal than a run
01:22:15
through it's actual it's more casual version of the wedding it's quite
01:22:18
interesting and then the formal wedding happens the next night but at that um the the the father of the groom got up
01:22:27
and introduced me to all these Americans and he said um oh this is the ones he was um he was one of the players of his
01:22:33
generation in cricket and I've always thought because i' I'm always uncomfortable with how you you always
01:22:39
you never know how to get how to where you fit in the whole Echelon of of cricket and everyone looks at Statistics
01:22:46
over time and I just thought that was the the best way i' I've ever I'd ever
01:22:50
felt I felt comfortable with how that described me you know like for that era from my era I was one of the players of
01:22:56
that generation you know and it's like you know along with the other guys who
01:23:00
did well in that era and I think that's a really clean way of saying it and it's
01:23:05
like that's all you can be right and in your in your time period are you one of
01:23:11
the best players and and and did you do well you know that's sort of it you you
01:23:15
got to Captain uh for a while like in the history of New Zealand Cricket how many Captain have they been 20 30 I mean
01:23:22
come on yeah it was funny little thing though the only teams I played against as Captain I did uh I think a test mat
01:23:28
couple of what I do three three test matches I think and and five1 days four1 days I can't remember five1 days anyway
01:23:35
but the only people I kept in were ended up both do done for match fixing against so was like hzi Kan and
01:23:43
and Muhammad azen but who were both great players but unfortunately yeah cross the line I always wonder whether
01:23:49
my results are slightly tainted we never know so oh yes so 94 game at Lords um is your name on an
01:23:58
honors board there at all I've had Mark Richardson in the podcast and his name
01:24:01
is on an honors board forgetting a century there and he's never never seen it but he said if he saw it in in real
01:24:06
life it'd probably you'd be quite emotional about it yeah uh of yeah so they've changed that actually so when we
01:24:12
they've changed the the things around so when it first happened um it was on the
01:24:17
other end of the of the r was like sort of quite a a cream colored board and um we got into trouble because Blair po got
01:24:24
up and and scratched my name and a pencil and and it was like Lord and I was like oh my gosh and so that got
01:24:32
covered up as a thing that happened and I um anyway so and then I went back to play there for Middle sex the a year
01:24:40
later so I got a contract so I saw it all the time because I'd just go and you
01:24:44
know yeah it's still there um but I went back recently um 40 cuz trium disaster
01:24:52
sponsored middle sex so I went back and and um we were sort of middle the middle
01:24:57
middle six guys and and they showed me around and I went into the room and they changed it all it's all totally
01:25:02
different and the honors Bo is down the other end and so it's moved down it's
01:25:05
not a big dark mahogany one now so you know even at even at the house of uh the home of cricket they changed things but
01:25:12
um yeah it is emotional it's like all the great events of of that have happened you know and so it it means a
01:25:19
lot there's a lot of great players who don't have their names up there you know
01:25:22
so it's it's a good thing to be yeah oh it's incredible yeah like it's
01:25:27
it's it's there forever like it establishes you as one of the greatest cricketers of all time oh well I I think
01:25:33
I think see that's where I always get uncomfortable right it's like I did I think there's only there's only a
01:25:40
probably three players I would put into that category in New Zealand history you
01:25:44
know and I you know and there's probably a bunch that sit below that and who'll
01:25:48
be totally offended but you know I only put probably Martin Crow Richard Headley
01:25:52
and probably Kane Williamson in that issue on of that I would say great of the game and the rest of us at different
01:25:59
times have done wonderful things some people are pushing up closer into that realm yeah but you know those are those
01:26:05
people sustained it and were the elite in in the in that grouping for their whole careers you know some some have
01:26:13
popped in there at different times and dropped out and others have done one or two decent things so but which is not to
01:26:20
diminish how I feel about my things but the reality is I got you know over a 10-year career I played 30 tests you
01:26:26
know like it's I I I think in the same period of time there's probably 100
01:26:30
tests played you know so I missed nearly two-thirds of my career through injury um so it's just that alone rules you out
01:26:37
of you know having the numbers you know yeah although I mean yeah you're a music
01:26:43
guy so the I mean there's Beatles versus the stones like um the stones have got
01:26:47
longevity The Beatles didn't have longevity but well no well no you're right and look in in of the day like I
01:26:54
we're all just trying to I'm just trying to place it in a way that I feel
01:26:57
comfortable you know like I I know I could have done more and that and but then at the same time you know you come
01:27:05
back to this guy and this guy believed in a whole lot of stuff that was not aligned with being a professional
01:27:12
Sportsman and I'm proud of those things that that he believed in as much as I as
01:27:17
the things that made him good at sport so you know I carry all of that and I'm
01:27:22
proud that I stuck to those things you know spoke up at times and stood out and did the wrong things blatantly at times
01:27:31
you know that I'm as proud of those and as much as I regret some of it I'm also
01:27:36
proud of it you know so all right well let's get into that so you from 1994 inls to um the 1995 weed smoking
01:27:44
incident now a lot of people listening to this wouldn't have even been born at
01:27:48
the time a lot of them won't remember it and maybe this will this will you bring
01:27:52
back some memories but this was a big [ __ ] Nationwide incident at the time this is crazy yeah so where in the world
01:28:00
were you South Africa pal so and you Steven Fleming Matthew Hart Matthew Hart yeah you you all got done for smoking
01:28:10
smoking pot yes yeah we did Big Time yeah it was crazy um a game got called off early it was Christmas um so we we'
01:28:19
been we're touring in South South Africa and there over Christmas so it was a
01:28:24
long time away from home um game got called off because of a dangerous pitch which in itself I think has only
01:28:29
happened twice in the history of the game that a pitch a game's been caught off because of a dangerous pitch what
01:28:35
does that mean well it means when the ball was bouncing it was just hitting going straight and hitting people in the
01:28:40
head or hting them in the toe it was just unplayable so they called the game off cuz P was going to get hurt I think
01:28:45
three people got hit in the head in the first hours right so we ended up with an
01:28:49
extra day um or extra two days that we didn't had accounted for so um and of
01:28:55
course we're in pal which is the wine growing area party area of of South Africa it's leading to Christmas
01:29:02
everyone's partying and we end up getting at short notice involved in this Vineyard going invited to this vineyard
01:29:08
with some of the opposition players and long story short one of our team and one of the opposition team
01:29:14
started talking about pot around the table and there's about 11 of us all around this table maybe more and
01:29:21
um I just we started saying yeah I've smoked it you know I've smoked at University other people said similar
01:29:29
stories and INX saying after it all sort of verbally got involved in this conversation then this big back pot
01:29:36
comes out on the table and it's like I remember thinking ah Shivers you know
01:29:41
you know this is like been sort of now now we're into this uh it was a bit and
01:29:47
I remember there when I remember thinking a fim's here that'll be okay at
01:29:51
least I've got a buddy and fim you know uh we he's a he was a young player um
01:29:57
and there were a few senior players around and you know one guy in particular been pretty vocal and and I
01:30:03
was like anyway all these they started rolling with those joints and Hing them around anyway came all the way around
01:30:09
had a puff and everyone else had a puff and then um I remember thinking [ __ ] the
01:30:15
most vocal guy hasn't had any and I remember thinking ah man that's who was
01:30:20
that a New Zealand guy yeah yeah and I remember thinking oh man you don't want
01:30:23
to say who it is no no no it's not there there's no point in saying any any of it
01:30:28
you know and it's like it's like but I just remember thinking ah that that's
01:30:32
what I I should have I shouldn't have I didn't have to I remember thinking I
01:30:35
didn't have to partake you know was it an element of peer pressure or it felt a
01:30:39
little bit like that I just but not I'm not blaming anybody I I was fully into I did my own thing I made my
01:30:47
own decisions but I just remember thinking at the time a [ __ ] that guy hasn't had me and um and then then after
01:30:54
a little while I remember flim and I must have got uneasy about it cuz we just said oh let's let's get out of here
01:31:00
right and so but we got out of here by stealing a joint so we and for later and yeah and we're like so we went back and
01:31:08
so actually the and this is where I felt really bad cuz you know we got we went back hard the three of us had practiced
01:31:14
so hard we'd stuck together with the young kids on the tour we'd been actually doing really well and so we
01:31:20
went back and got hone and we like hey honey you know we and so we got Hardy involved and then you know that was it
01:31:28
and so then the party went on and didn't think any of it next morning we all went
01:31:33
to this practice venue instead of playing and it started raining so they stopped the practice and they pulled us
01:31:38
all in and they said oh we're going to have a meeting we're going to talk about
01:31:43
what happened yesterday and so can call you in one by one so they went in his room and they said oh Dion can you come
01:31:48
in so I came in and the coaches and Captain and everything and I and they said oh we've heard you a smoking pot
01:31:56
yesterday is this true and I was like yep and then um they said ah we're you
01:32:02
know really diff really sorry to hear that um you know so on on my way and um so next person was walking in was flam
01:32:11
and as he walked past I said I FL this what they're going to ask you and it's
01:32:16
all right I've said I've said yes I've taken the ramp so just deny it you know
01:32:20
and he was like oh mate I can't do that so he walked up in he said yes third
01:32:25
person was hardy hardy walked in he said yes and by this stage we all got back or
01:32:31
I'd got back to the main group and told them what was going on and of course
01:32:35
everyone was just like you stupid what are you thinking you know you know so and and then know everyone else just you
01:32:43
know just said and you know so we just did they and I don't again it was a terrible situation for anyone to be put
01:32:50
in right so I don't blame anyone for for for for it because it wasn't such it wasn't like many of them
01:32:59
probably felt they didn't weren't really involved you know they probably felt
01:33:01
much like I initially did it was a bit of peer pressure you had a couple of Puffs on the way around was like I'm not
01:33:08
fing up for that you know um so you know it was a bit of but then where it really
01:33:14
got ugly is when we flew home cuz they sort of at the time they said okay we know more were involved so end the story
01:33:21
and then we flew home and then at later St uh New Zealand Cricket got wind of it
01:33:26
this about 6 weeks later and Alo the the from a team environment they tried to sort of keep a l on it yeah okay yeah
01:33:32
and then flew home and there a whole lot of other politics going on in the background which I won't bore people
01:33:38
yeah but we we used start done for matches or did you get told off by the senior leadership group or yeah we got
01:33:43
told off disappointed but but we're also think but there were also people who we
01:33:47
knew that soan was like you guys are idiots for owning up but yeah the hypocrisy of it all so we're but you
01:33:54
know we were all sort of like in it together so it was sort of was but also that would feel like a good line in the
01:33:59
C not I'm not talking about it being a cover up but a line in the sand like you
01:34:02
smoked a bit of pot at a [ __ ] party big deal yeah yeah yeah and so we flew home um and we were playing in uh uh the
01:34:11
Shell Cup Final and against I was playing for Northern districts and we're were playing um Wellington at the Basin
01:34:16
Reserve so this is pretty sure it the Shell Cup Final and it was about to go out it's about 9:30 in the morning we're
01:34:23
starting half an hour later or something and the chairman of New Zealand Cricket
01:34:27
meets me in the tunnel and hands me a letter and he goes you might want to get a lawyer for this and I was like what
01:34:35
and he go and then Matthew Hart was in the same game so he hands the same letter to Hardy and we it's literally
01:34:42
I'm about to go and play pH and open this letter and it's like um we've been
01:34:46
called to some court hearing that you've been accused of smoking pot or tour of
01:34:52
South Africa representing New Zealand I was just like all the blood drain out of
01:34:55
my body I was read sitting in the tunnel just reading this thing before going out
01:34:59
into the sh up final and I was like oh my God what is going on and you know you my head was just spinning right I just
01:35:07
thought that's the end of my career you know we played the game and I don't even
01:35:13
I can't even remember the game what happened in it um but um it was remember
01:35:18
sh anyway so then we got went and got lawyers had to lawyer up we all had to go and meet in Oakland and and you know
01:35:24
cost thousands of dollars to go and represent ourselves in the sort of kangaroo court and was it out in the
01:35:29
public at this point or no no no but so we sat in this meeting in this Kang Court to about about midnight or even
01:35:36
later arguing our case right saying because they they had a judge was it like a Judicial some sort
01:35:44
of review but it was pre all of the stuff there was no nothing set up so they just set it up and so we had our
01:35:50
lawyers each had a lawyer each New Zealand Cricket had HED museal on Cricket and lawyers and there was a
01:35:56
judge adjudicating and we all had to present our cases and you know in the in the end they just said you're guilty we
01:36:03
know you're guilty so we're going to suspend you and find you or whatever and
01:36:06
I was like so we just walked out and the next day this is at midnight we walked down the meeting next day it's all
01:36:12
through the papers so they must have already told the papers what was happening way before we left that
01:36:18
meeting and and I remember my but the worst part of it all was when was get having to ring my father but PRI
01:36:26
when I got that letter going home afterwards and and then having to ring my father from Oakland and say Dad uh
01:36:33
you know how well everything's been going recently it's it's about to hit a
01:36:38
hit the skids um because of and so that was one of those phone calls you don't
01:36:43
even really want to make but it like now people go a smoking pop what what's a
01:36:47
big deal but literally that then we had Paul homes turning up to our parents houses you know like we everywhere you
01:36:58
went people were were either offering your joints or or abusing you for being a pothead you know or drug addict were
01:37:06
you as as and when you're fielding and fans on the so so we' play the game was
01:37:12
was New Zealand Centenary so we turned up to Eden Park or the team turned up to Eden Park and there was just the whole
01:37:18
of Eden Park was filled with get off the grass and and they used all the things to make big joints and and you know it
01:37:23
was just you know people were rasar and things everywhere but everywhere you went out afterwards for about 2 years
01:37:30
you go to a pub and some guy would always come up and go hey man you want to come outside and and you're just like
01:37:37
dude are you kidding me um yeah I'm guess I mean you can look back now again
01:37:43
it was almost 30 years ago so you can laugh about it now but I'm guessing at
01:37:46
the time it was not funny for many many years uh it wasn't funny he it was like
01:37:51
intense it was like it what it did do it I think it brought Steven fim it's interesting fim and I don't really have
01:37:58
much to do with each other anymore um and but for a period I think it galvanized a younger group that like
01:38:06
Flyn myself Chris Ken you know Nathan Estel Edam pry a younger group that was coming through I think felt really
01:38:15
galvanized by it and I think it was it helped in a way because it was like hey let's not let's be let's be honest with
01:38:23
each other going forward you know let's let's sort of and let's not try let's
01:38:27
not do that again but let's like try and get some get some things right yeah look
01:38:31
out for each other yeah and um and so I think there was a good things came from it um you know but there was also there
01:38:38
was a bit of scars there for sure you know like it was just like cuz it you don't you just want to be focusing on
01:38:45
that and you don't and you know you don't want to even though a head smok
01:38:49
pot and even though you know you just don't want to be called a po Poe head or
01:38:53
a pot smoker you know it's just you want to be known for the thing that you're
01:38:56
good at you know um and so it was just yeah a side so how was your um how was your mental health at the time like
01:39:03
mental health wasn't even sort of a thing it wasn't something we talked about I watched the the Beckham
01:39:08
documentary yeah which I don't know have you watched that I did yeah where there's where there's people like like
01:39:14
burning and hanging effies of outside bars like I'm not saying for a moment ours was as intense as that but it was a
01:39:21
version of that you know like it was full on we drove home my father made me listen to the TalkBack radio as we drove
01:39:27
up north to go into hiding like literally had to go into hiding for about a week you know I just went hit
01:39:33
out on the back of the farm no ill communicato and on the but my father had been down at the hearing he just like
01:39:40
drove for two and a half hours all the way up and he made me listen to talk back radio the whole way and was sort of
01:39:47
like punishment for your exory and I'd be turning it off and he'd turn it back
01:39:51
on and itd be like I was like and you know you just had those the F honestly You' think we killed people the way
01:39:57
people were carrying on a and of course the radio hosts were like ramping it up and I was just like man it felt intense
01:40:04
um but like it was just like one of those things that you sort of go really the one funny little story
01:40:12
that did happen is I had a middle sex contract I'd already got that contract
01:40:15
but this happened in between so I I got this letter with my work visa to go to the to the UK to pick up my contract and
01:40:25
I was just hanging out to get to the end of New Zealand summer to get out of the
01:40:28
country to go to that and they sent me a work visa to so I could get into the UK
01:40:33
and on the front they rid in this thing saying hey we've we've understood um
01:40:37
that this was that you got caught smoking pot we of course we're disappointed like New Zealand Cricket
01:40:41
but we do understand it was a oneoff it's not part and so as long as it doesn't happen here we're happy to have
01:40:47
you and and live up to our country cool so I was like sweet so I turn up to Heathrow and I walk in and the lady at
01:40:54
the counter is like um calls me up and I go up and I hand over my work visa and she's reading the front L and going she
01:41:03
go she pulls it off and she hands it back to me she goes you might want to hold on to this one and I was
01:41:10
like just I was like oh [ __ ] I like yeah so she goes I hope it was a good time or something as I walked
01:41:19
through and I was like it's I mean yeah I prol down plat too much because a you wear away like representing your
01:41:29
country b um yeah pot we understand now that it's not as harmful as what maybe
01:41:33
we thought it was back then but still it feels like the um the lashing that you guys took definitely outweighed it was
01:41:39
look yeah I mean I I I would I you know I I can't I I I it was bad we we did
01:41:48
some dumb it was dumb but like you know it also probably didn't deserve quite as
01:41:53
bit bigger hit as we took yeah there was no social media at the time either right
01:41:58
like [ __ ] imagine that that's probably good um was after your dad got the um
01:42:03
the initial like anger or whatever out of his system was he um like quite sort of empathetic or yeah he was they s come
01:42:09
around yeah he was good he came around but you know it hung over me for it was leverage you get for him for a little
01:42:15
while it wasn't short of playing the odd little guilt trip on me so so what you went through is
01:42:21
probably like the Australian guys with the Sandpaper thing probably how they feel oh yeah he only accused me of
01:42:27
letting the family down probably once every month for about six months and then you know went out to once every six
01:42:32
months for a couple of years you know and and were you um were you seeing this was pre bun say were you seeing anyone
01:42:38
at the time like did you or did you have a good group of friends that you could talk to about how you were feeling and
01:42:43
oh all all my mates were from University so they thought they all thought it was
01:42:46
[ __ ] hilarious right because I was like oh my God you know and of course I outed all of them and then I always
01:42:52
remember the girl friend I had at the time who she was great and um but she my mother rang up to talk to her to try and
01:43:01
you know ease the get get another side of the story and I always remember um Shelly who was myri time saying um oh
01:43:10
look he hardly smokes any at all he's probably only done it a handful of times
01:43:16
and I was like oh no yeah I know you're trying to like so yeah then it all kicked off
01:43:29
again was like Mom was like sh sh Shel says yeah well it's just an an unimaginable [ __ ] storm for anyone to go
01:43:37
through and um especially when there's no sort of ending sight but has it made
01:43:41
you a stronger person built that resilience do you think in a way yeah I think so I think so uh I mean it's just
01:43:47
what you go through right um I you know you you can't any other experience it's just what it is your
01:43:56
experience and is builds your perception of the world and your um Viewpoint and you know mine will always have these
01:44:03
sort of things that I've that that influence how I perceive things and and you know I would be a liar if I said
01:44:09
they didn't have some negative impact on that you know um maybe was slightly less
01:44:15
trusting after that you know s a little bit sort of angry at people for for a long time you know just felt quite a lot
01:44:22
of injust personal Injustice I always I always had a sense of Injustice for other people and I think but I always
01:44:29
felt you know like I didn't need any and but I think after a while but when you
01:44:34
go through something like that it's like that very intense sense of like that's
01:44:38
unfair on me you know that that and so I think you go through all of those things
01:44:43
um but you just have to shake it off you know and I think we all dealt with it differently um uh you know but um no I
01:44:51
mean I I wouldn't um I would like you can never do it but part of I think when we set up helped
01:44:59
set up that Players Association was just you know it was a recognition at the end
01:45:04
of my career when we were all trying to work out that you need these support structures around you know to prevent
01:45:10
things like that happening people need mental support they need you know advice they need physical support and advice
01:45:19
you know all of those things if they're going to be successful on the part and
01:45:22
um you know I I would say there's still some development to go there um in and
01:45:28
even today but um it's much B than it was so yeah well there's no your duty of
01:45:33
care wasn't even a phrase back then was it um how old are your kids now and did
01:45:38
did you did you bring this up with your kids at any point or you just have they read it online have they asked about it
01:45:43
there's no secrets they know at all um no no they you know they I think they
01:45:48
think it's a little bit funny if I'm D dad was cool once no they don't that
01:45:53
they definitely don't think that I think they think it was funny stupid uh stupid
01:45:58
funny yeah I don't know definitely not cool um but you know they're not but um
01:46:04
no they they're they're cool with it they're like just you know just de yeah
01:46:09
they know what I'm like full stop you know so they know The Good the Bad and
01:46:12
the Ugly so yeah oh that's cool well let's um wrap the B the cricket stuff
01:46:16
with a couple of fun stuff I I found a clip on YouTube of you um taking this amazing catch catching the great Brian
01:46:22
Lara out you're running backwards and you get this catch um any stories about anyone
01:46:28
else any of the greats like wary yeah what was your relationship like with warie um I didn't have a great I didn't
01:46:35
play Australia in test match is a whole bunch but I had a good relationship with
01:46:39
wary he was a just a jovial good guy you know like super competitor best story I
01:46:45
can tell you about wary is I was playing a game of cricket um in in Sydney under
01:46:51
lights one day in like say 96 1996 something like that and um uh he bowls this ball called a flipper and it's like
01:47:01
this it was this mystery ball right and it was big all this press and PR about it right and anyway so old muggins here
01:47:09
Bing away and War comes in the bow and he balls this B and I go to smack it out of the park and I get clean bowled right
01:47:14
and it's like and he just like gives me this big scend off and I walk off and
01:47:19
like you know there's this bit of commentary of going oh what what on Earth was Deon thinking you know and
01:47:24
then anyway so that's in 1996 2000 year 2000 maybe 2001 I'm playing Australia in a test match at the
01:47:33
Brisbane and Shane War comes into bowl and it's the first ball he balls comes
01:47:38
to bowl to me and he comes in you know it's bright sunny day in Brisbane and he
01:47:43
gets about to bowl and he stops and he leans down and he rubs his hand in the dust and he looks at me and goes
01:47:50
remember Sydney nashy and I was just like what I'm I'm like some Joe nobody that you bowled out in
01:47:59
1996 in a one day in Sydney and you you still remember it you know and he was like he just making the point watch out
01:48:05
for my flipper it's coming and and I've got you once ready and I was like man I
01:48:10
was it sort of actually had the opposite effect it made me feel really good that
01:48:14
I even knew how I was you know it was like it's great Shane one so um that's
01:48:18
neat yeah that is yeah but but that's shows you the competitor he was right he
01:48:23
was into everybody he just wanted to he wanted to knock you over he didn't feed
01:48:26
it anything so um but yeah I mean you know I had always had great battles with Ula like I got him out about six times I
01:48:34
was perori was the best keeper I would only ever have Adam be my wi keeper but he did drop um at a SAT and tender twice
01:48:43
so I should have had him eight times um Adam denies it outright but I'm pretty
01:48:47
sure there's video evidence out there that I can find if I work hard enough um
01:48:52
so but tnd do was he was the great him and him and Lara were the two greats of my time um and you know I I had a few
01:49:00
Runnings with Steve War and the war Brothers um but I just loved playing in the era you know it was just sort of one
01:49:07
of those times you had these big big characters um you know Waker yunas Wy mam you know kley Ambrose Ellen Donald
01:49:16
you know like there were just these massive personas that you had to sort of and I don't think you can quite
01:49:23
articulate what it's like to go out against massive egos massive personas and just to exist out in the middle
01:49:30
against those people you really have to you know you have to sort of exude that same sort of like um Persona you know
01:49:37
and fake it because you you know it's not natural to have it but it's like
01:49:42
it's just being part of that is exciting you know it was was a massive Challenge
01:49:46
and when you have those little bits of success against it it's just amazing yeah and I wanted to know about that
01:49:54
it's like um I mean I I suppose I speak on behalf of like almost everyone that's
01:49:58
going to listen to this podcast that will never achieve anything close to Greatness in our life like what was it
01:50:05
like retiring at 30 is it terrifying do you have like a post-career depression like you go through these like extreme
01:50:11
highs that that none of us get to experience and then suddenly it's like your your new life is beginning yeah you
01:50:17
do you um you do it's like it it lasts for for ages is way longer than it should um you know like initially
01:50:25
there's a little bit of a high it's like finally cuz I only retired cuz I was
01:50:29
having so many injuries and I was just so tired of it you know emotionally I'd
01:50:33
drained I just the the the continual getting injured and having all the media say I is injured again and every family
01:50:41
member say oh why don't you just ring bllr or you know why don't you just get
01:50:46
fitter everyone every friend no one understands did you did you ever try medicinal weed
01:50:53
no no there wasn't even a thing then it was it was like yeah sorry probably self-medicated a few times yeah
01:51:02
sorry breaking your flow there yeah no but you know like so you get out of it and you're like um uh you know you just
01:51:09
walk away and and think thank God that's over but then the further you get away
01:51:13
from it the more you're like oh man I didn't achieve as much as I should and
01:51:17
you have all this sort of regret and the sort of a scar tissue from it you know that builds up cuz it's like man I got
01:51:24
you know you feel certain times you're mistreated or you know went you know whatever and then that that lasts for a
01:51:32
long time and I guess why I'm so grateful for having met those guys at 42 below and now for having my own business
01:51:37
is I just managed to stumble into something where I had some another creative outlet and I think C sport is
01:51:45
quite a creative Outlet you know I know people don't necessarily associate jocks
01:51:49
and with with with creativity but they sort of they are qu lined in a way um and certainly from a passion perspective
01:51:57
you know that takes a lot of passion and you deep dive into it and so I think I feel really lucky to have
01:52:04
had that but man for years you know because it's something you've done since
01:52:07
you're 12 it's what your whole identity is wrapped around in is becoming a
01:52:11
crooker and then you do it until 30 that's the majority of your your adult life or your entire adult life and the
01:52:18
majority of your entire life that your identity has been wrapped up with something so then you step out of that
01:52:24
and it's just like it's both frightening and accelerating um it's like taking the
01:52:29
training wheels off and Away um you know riding your bike and it's like man this
01:52:34
this is exciting but [ __ ] terrifying as well yeah and how how do I work the brakes um and and of course what happens
01:52:41
is every now and then you crash right and when you crash you have those bad times that's when you just long for oh
01:52:47
man I want the security of my identity back but I think I worked out at some stage in it that like I us like any
01:52:55
player that finishes I did commentary for a while and even some TV work you know and I just sort of felt that it was
01:53:02
really unhealthy for my psyche cuz it was I felt like I was a becoming a caricature of myself which was something
01:53:09
I was trying to shed shed away from you know and so um I didn't want to go into
01:53:16
that I I wanted to move away from it and so I sort of made this conscious decision not to carry on with the the
01:53:22
the that side of it um and try to get into something else and I I still think that was a healthy decision even though
01:53:30
at times I you know you still sort of you feel like oh maybe it be easy to go back and Dabble and this sort of stuff
01:53:36
but I think certainly at that time for me I needed to make that clean cut and get away you know and try to carve out
01:53:43
something else do you enjoy reminising from time to time like today or is it a pain in the ass I enjoy it no I do I
01:53:50
enjoy tell I I I sometimes sometimes I'm sick of my own voice you know like I and
01:53:55
so I I want to what I want is the next adventure to be exciting and like I've
01:54:02
got this great adventure going on with Bernie at the moment you know like we've
01:54:05
got this beautiful family we've been ber and I have been married 20 years and it
01:54:11
doesn't even feel like half quarter of that time you know and I feel like um you know we're just
01:54:18
getting sort of like started in a way and watching our kids grow and you know trying to be a better human myself so
01:54:28
that they can so I can show them that I can be evolve and change and you know as
01:54:34
as a challenge and I'm enjoying that you know it's like I I'm totally committed
01:54:39
to that and [ __ ] it up often you know like you know way too vocal on the sideline at kids sports you know know
01:54:48
like are you actually are you not conscious that people be like that's [ __ ] qucious but that's it only
01:54:53
drives me on to sort of make it worse you know I'm good at digging holes um so
01:54:59
but like um you know I'm quite good at climbing out of them as well but um but
01:55:04
you know the the of that's that behavior is like you know I my father never was
01:55:10
vocal on the sideline so you know as my father's just passed away I'm like man I
01:55:15
I want to be like Dad you know I want to just show that I can be stoic on the sideline and and
01:55:21
enjoy the wins or loses or whatever but but it's hard man ockland sport kids sport
01:55:28
Inland is so competitive you know and it's like it's full on um so there's all
01:55:34
of those things going on there's like trying to run a business trying to make
01:55:36
sure that I put bread on the table enjoying watching my Bernie's got a great job and she's got her career going
01:55:43
so enjoying watching her she's a few years after you know she was a sort of stay-at home mom for a long time what's
01:55:49
what what is she doing she's she's um she's I don't know if this is by Design
01:55:53
or but she doesn't do a lot of podcasts and stuff or no she's so she's head of
01:55:58
people and marketing at um Hundai Group which is um so it's a really big job
01:56:04
like great she's doing super well um and loving it you know she's having her I
01:56:11
guess sort of corporate time which I I had 10 years ago or whatever and um and I think she's she's feeling she's
01:56:19
getting that success sense of sensation of success so you know people we always need little wins don't we you know to
01:56:25
keep ourselves bouncing along from lily pad to Lily Pad and I feel like she's
01:56:30
having a really um good impact on the people around her there and you can feel it you know she's like anyone she's good
01:56:37
and bad days but that's exciting to watch and and see that develop so I don't know I'm just enjoying I'm trying
01:56:43
to it's I love the moment you can sit on YouTube and sort of you know get all
01:56:49
this advice around how to you know live Liv in the moment how to you know be grateful you know be mindfulness I I
01:56:56
know it sounds cheesy and all of that but I it's so wouldn't it have been
01:57:01
great to have that 25 years ago you know and just you know like from what I know
01:57:06
about you you've been thee of the curve though you would you were journaling
01:57:08
like at a young age like teenage years yeah yeah well yeah mainly doodling right initially and then and then and
01:57:18
then some pretty dodgy poetry you know I remember remember had my own little Jim
01:57:22
marison pH at University where I thought I was you know writing writing some pretty wicked poetry anyway oh so yeah
01:57:30
so Benise for anyone that um that doesn't know like Benise Minnie she was that when you were in the New Zealand
01:57:34
cricket team she was like the the star of the silver FS there was a McCain Z that was on TV all the time where I'm
01:57:41
pretty sure it wasn't her dad but she got a phone she was preparing like a TV
01:57:45
microwave dinner and the phone on The Voice would be I just want to make sure my girl's looking after herself
01:57:50
something like that she's a big star so you guys met you ended up being at sobow
01:57:54
or something and you shouted her tequila it was my birthday I'd been I'd come
01:57:58
home from India injured again so I was I was my my my niece and my um my sister would taken me out almost our 28th
01:58:07
birthday so I was like I was moping around the house thinking a man and then they said come on let's take you out so
01:58:14
I was having this big raging night with my niece and my sister and I ran into a friend and he owned a bar called a
01:58:20
restaurant called lemon ran into him at at some bar and he goes dud come down I'll shout you guys a dinner so he takes
01:58:27
us down to his restaurant and I just walking and just so happen the only table there is right
01:58:33
next to this group of netballers and so I and they just lost the world Champs by
01:58:38
one goal against Australia and that was sort of in the news and they having their debrief I didn't know that but so
01:58:43
I was like oh this is awkward I'm going to sit down I don't know any of them but
01:58:46
I'm going to sit down right the table next to them so how do I navigate this
01:58:51
so I thought oh I'll just come by rounded te killers and bring it back and you know that'll break the ice they you
01:58:56
were a big star at the time though right oh well I don't know well I was well
01:58:59
knowing I was in the New Zealand team had been kept had been kep and so yeah anyway so I brought this round Kil as I
01:59:06
took it over and Bernie always likes to say she she said she thought oh that's
01:59:11
Dion Nash and then one of the other girls said isn't that Dion Nash and then
01:59:15
one of the other ones said who just a time stamp this pre smartphone so you can't just Google and
01:59:22
go oh yeah that's oh that's cute so then how did so how did you end up um yeah 20
01:59:29
years married from that well we just num yeah no well no initially no I I checked
01:59:34
the number down by somehow and then um you know it took a while you know there was it didn't didn't all happen straight
01:59:40
away but eventually I managed to hook up with a date with her when she was in Oakland you know a month or two later I
01:59:47
can't remember and um I took her out for a day night there's a quarry jump where
01:59:52
I was I was always into jumping off high things into water so I did the polis Bridge jump so I was always like right
01:59:58
let's find the next highest thing right and so um there's this Quarry over in
02:00:03
tuna and lake puki and he used to be able to jump I think you still probably can if you but um us we used to go and
02:00:09
jump it's about I don't know eight or N9 M you know it's reasonable you got to
02:00:12
jump out over gors and it's a little bit thrilling so anyway so I I my first date
02:00:17
I took her there and said hey let's go jump into this Lake and she was like okay so anyway so I got her in a bikini
02:00:25
on her first dat and got her jumping off this high C I thought okay this girl's
02:00:29
all good I like her so oh that's cool yeah so then um no so she she um yeah so
02:00:36
that was and then it sort of kicked off from there but yeah amazing all these yeah I suppose um I don't know yeah must
02:00:44
have been good meeting someone that's sort of like a peer like uh that's
02:00:47
that's an equal so there's no sort of power and balance like if if you're if
02:00:51
you're [ __ ] stress pregame or whatever she sort of got some sort of understanding of what it's like in high
02:00:56
performance sport um the highs and lows of all that yeah and and she'd had her
02:01:01
own share of injuries and um she she she was largely quite loved though not not as quite as controversial I always felt
02:01:08
we've got this thing this um we got this thing from the southern times cuz she
02:01:12
was playing for this thing at the time and in Vago and it's the front page or
02:01:16
you know the flyer that they sell the paper with so it goes out and it's the
02:01:19
you know it's just the headline and it sits in the it's the Southland times and
02:01:23
it's like alberes is engaged and I was like oh my God what we got taking on the
02:01:28
Hall of Southland so yeah so um anyway so yeah but that was a buzz you know they were
02:01:36
that was a cool time as well that whole sting thing because Aden H was going out
02:01:40
with Jeff Wilson and um Tanya um Dalton and Dwayne were down there so we all these boyfriends would we were like the
02:01:48
Wags we would fly in from ockland and to watch these sting games it would be like
02:01:52
sort of who's who in the crowd it was quite funny that's neat and um so is she
02:01:58
taller than you yeah yes she is how how was that how was that was that weird in the beginning yeah for both you there
02:02:04
was definitely like a clean out of the Shoe Closet that's all of those ones are
02:02:08
going AR they so um oh yeah well she's she's 6'2 I'm I'm you know not quite 6'2
02:02:15
so it's it's close but no she's definitely taller um and um oh yeah it
02:02:22
was you know it wasn't what I was intending I'm sure it was to be the short person in the relationship that's
02:02:28
for sure but yeah well I just think when you meet she's such you know youve you
02:02:33
know Bernie she's just such a engaging person and we just we're so compatible
02:02:39
we she just loves humans she loves talking um and she brought out that in me you know like I she she got me out of
02:02:46
my shell and you know and you know she is she she's just a wonderful person to
02:02:52
be around and so you talk about creating a positive environment around yourself you know that was the the biggest tick I
02:03:00
could have made you know it was just like wow this person's I just feel great
02:03:04
you know and wouldn't and like you say she wouldn't she would she never D
02:03:09
dwells on things and she never dives off into negativity or or or you know feeling sorry for herself or anything
02:03:16
like that and so you you can't be like that if you're around a person who who
02:03:20
like that you know no it's just you the moment you start having any of that behavior you're like oh my God I'm
02:03:26
letting this show down here you know I got to get my [ __ ] together and get up and play on the same terms you know so I
02:03:32
think um that's been a really positive thing for me you know that's wonderful
02:03:38
and yeah so you've been together like 25 years now like a oh yeah late 9s 03
02:03:43
010203 so yeah so what's it 21 years yeah so yeah so oh oh no sorry that's
02:03:49
marriage but yeah no yeah so yeah no yeah pre the last Millennium yeah have you um got I mean you don't
02:03:59
get that far in a relationship without having any rough patches you have you had any counseling or anything or are
02:04:04
you just naturally good at communicating on your own and working through obstacles when they come up ah she's
02:04:10
pretty straight man like it's like if if I'm playing up or doing just you know
02:04:16
she'll just and vice versa to be honest like no we we like anyone of course there's you know rough patches of of
02:04:24
whatever you know but it's but no I mean she's just got my back you know and I
02:04:28
think I've got his and not you know part of all of the dope smoking and the you
02:04:34
know maybe the scar tissue of our sporting careers um it's really important to some feel like someone's
02:04:40
got you back and you're living up to their expectations you know and you did right you've used the scar
02:04:47
tissue thing a couple of times and I think um whenever anything like this happens you just you and this is quite
02:04:53
sad but your circle just gets smaller and Tighter right yeah that's right yeah
02:04:57
yeah 100% And it's like and then you build out a little bit I think now and you know you start to build out a little
02:05:02
bit right and bring the other people into it and change but um yeah no I mean I we've traveled a lot I think that's a
02:05:13
cool thing to do as well we went to South America when we first got together for about 4 months um and we traveled
02:05:20
around went way up and into the middle of the Amazon and you know people couldn't even speak Spanish they were
02:05:26
speaking chiuan and you know we had all these crazy experiences together which was that sort of tested their metal you
02:05:32
know it was like it was like okay if we got through that we can probably last at
02:05:37
least a couple of years of marriage yeah yeah oh how could and how old are the kids now 17 15 13 right yeah [ __ ] so you
02:05:44
guys are going to start being almost like empty nests soon yeah so the oldest one starting to look at universities
02:05:49
he's in his last year at school man it's crazy how quick it it goes through and
02:05:54
um yeah but exciting as as well the best thing we've done recently we we after Co
02:06:00
I had my 50th during Co and we' saved up to have this big party and of course
02:06:05
couldn't have it so we're like well let's go to Europe you know and take the
02:06:09
kids to Europe CU we had saved the saved some money and so we planned this family
02:06:13
trip to Europe and wow what the the perfect ages to take the family away and just to have this family trip somewhere
02:06:22
when in the middle of summer in the middle of Europe was that was the best thing we've ever done you know it was
02:06:28
just like seeing your kids exposed to other cultures and just their worlds opening up you know and just somehow
02:06:35
took a lot of the pressure I think some sometimes being from New Zealand there's
02:06:39
a lot of pressure in the smallness of the place you know like because it feels so competitive it feels like you if you
02:06:46
don't like you know whereas I think seeing the world and just going man the world's so bad
02:06:52
somehow I could my sense was it relieved a lot of internal pressure certainly from my oldest one I was just like wow
02:06:58
this is an adventure out here you know there's so much to do and just seeing
02:07:03
whether it's real or not that was my perception and seeing those little growth things happen on your kids is
02:07:09
just enriching you know and you are you proud of yourself as a dead yeah of course yeah but I'm
02:07:16
also it's I Chris Ken and I we used to Chris Ken and I weren't always mates you
02:07:21
know we some buttheads a lot and we came up with the saying like years and years
02:07:26
ago which was and you know I think we're having an argument here like you just
02:07:31
don't respect me and I said my retort to Kenzie was respect is not something you
02:07:36
earn and keep it's something you keep earning and it was like and he's never
02:07:40
let he's never let me forget it and I and um but he loves that saying now it's
02:07:46
a great line I've never heard that it's awesome yeah and he but he um you know
02:07:50
and it's it's sort of true but I didn't even know what I was saying I was just
02:07:54
trying to win the argument with them I think and um but uh but it's funny like
02:08:00
that that's true of being a parent you know like it's like every time I do
02:08:04
something dumb or I do some silly thing as a parent you know and or react badly or just grumpy and angry when I should
02:08:13
have just been mow and cool um you know I I have to rearn that bit I feel I have
02:08:18
to rearn that bit of respect you know it's like [ __ ] I just blew it it's all
02:08:21
going so good you know because in in our household growing up like in the 70s and
02:08:25
' 80s it was always um you do as I say not as I do I feel like you can't get
02:08:29
away with it now you have to lead by example totally totally Al so yes Kinsey you guys are quite close right are you
02:08:36
quite good friends well we are I mean you know but I think a lot was made cuz he went through all that match fixing
02:08:42
and his problems and now he's obviously got his health issues which he's doing
02:08:46
amazing to come back from um I me I I love following him on Instagram has has junor to teach himself to walk again
02:08:53
yeah incredible right it's the match fixing stuff like whether it happened whether it didn't happen it kind of puts
02:08:58
everything into perspective I think in a way on the big scheme of Life yeah and I
02:09:02
think to be honest like chis Chris and I by the end of our career we're good
02:09:05
mates um you know Adam was a good mate we probably were you know you sort of get a bit clicky in different groups and
02:09:12
we the three of us were probably good mates every we had others as well that as well but that was probably a bit of a
02:09:19
core I would say um and then so you know you stand up for them but look I would have stood up for Steven Fleming or
02:09:26
Nathan Estel or Roger TW or Jeff any of those guys that we did stuff with during
02:09:31
that period they were like brothers really and I still even though there's through all of this sort of there has
02:09:39
been some separation but I still think of all of those guys like that I have ultimately all have their back and I
02:09:45
hope they would have mine um and you know that's part of I hope when we get together in this Union you know we can
02:09:52
sort of just be together again you know um but um but yeah so but now keny's
02:10:00
Ken's doing great and you know it's it's tough right like going back to leaving
02:10:05
the game is tough enough without having to go through all of what he went through and now having all his health
02:10:10
issues and personal issues and and stuff so you know we all yeah we all need to be there don't we for a m yeah 100% [ __ ]
02:10:19
this has been a hell of a cheat this might um this might be the long you didn't have any meetings up did you I'm
02:10:25
sorry this has been over two hours oh [ __ ] sorry mate I I always remember John
02:10:29
Bridges you remember John Bridges from TV3 yes yeah of course so I I went to a function once and he um he uh is a
02:10:37
corporate function and he got up and he spoke and he said he he was giving advice to speakers and he said my the
02:10:42
first piece of advice is when someone asks you to speak just say no and when everyone's like what and he was like and
02:10:49
he goes whenever someone ask me to get up here and speak I say no and then and then it said if they come back and they
02:10:53
ask again I say still say no and then if they come back a third time he said then
02:10:58
I think about what is is they want me to say and if I'm really passionate and
02:11:02
I've got something to say then I might say yes but I might also say no and and
02:11:07
he was basically saying like you know just unless you've got something really
02:11:11
worthwhile saying just don't don't get up there it's not not worth it and which
02:11:15
was a really it was a good message I got it it was like yeah you got to have something to say and so I I you know I I
02:11:24
do feel like I've got something to say but then at the same time I'm like I'm
02:11:27
sick of the sound of my own voice so I I did think as I was coming today this might I might have to offer my
02:11:32
resignation to all podcasts after this one this might I've reached the Pinnacle
02:11:36
I reached Mar's podcast I can now officially retire yeah no more well well if this is your last time on please cuz
02:11:44
it's um you do have a lot to say it's um it's been a a hell of a life and I think
02:11:48
the exciting thing is there's someone that's like the same age as you it's um
02:11:52
you know you get to I don't know when I was in my early 20s I thought life was
02:11:55
over by the time you got to 50 yeah um and then you get here and you realize oh no you can still grow and still develop
02:12:00
and still change as a person and I think that's that's really exciting you good
02:12:03
with aging I'm excited I'm actually really excited I've got so much to
02:12:07
develop like I mean if imagine if it was all done right it would be like so boring um no I'm I'm sort of I'm really
02:12:13
excited I I definitely have some things I need to work on and get better at and I and I want to get better at you know
02:12:20
um I I did meet um I went on this course once and this I was I was being problematic within it this is only about
02:12:27
five or six years ago and I was challenging the people presenting it you know anyway and this lady comes up the
02:12:34
lady one of the presenters comes up to me towards the end out a break and she goes you know Dion with Mana comes great
02:12:41
responsibility and I was like oh oh that was that one that one I have to think about that for a minute but um
02:12:50
is that that from Transformers I don't knower I don't know what it was from but
02:12:54
I was like it was like it was true it was like she was basically accusing me of throwing my way around without any
02:13:01
care you know and um and being SM being smart enough to do it and but not allow not respecting what the group needed or
02:13:10
whatever you know and I thought ah that that was a good timely poking the ribs you know and and so I think that's the
02:13:19
thing I'm probably trying to work on at the moment is just being aware of the
02:13:23
impact that I can have good both positively and and negatively and trying to sort of like you know learn when
02:13:31
learn when I can need to just leave the room and and go and regroup myself cuz you know I'm I'm an oversharer as youve
02:13:40
probably just worked out and an over talker and you know sometimes in doing that you just actually needed to have
02:13:45
stopped half an hour ago probably like this podcast and then um and then um leave then everyone would be fine but
02:13:52
because you stay you over you over analyze it you over talk it or you just end up getting tired and saying the
02:13:58
wrong thing yeah well I think like from my perspective I think this has been great like there's nothing I'd eat it
02:14:03
out and I I appreciate you being so open especially about the stuff and like the
02:14:07
'90s um yeah I heard a podcast just recently that Arley Williams did with um
02:14:12
the between two beers guys oh yeah I've been on their podcast I know you too and
02:14:16
he remember he got done buying some cocaine and Paris Paris um and he said when you you make the news people say
02:14:22
it's all it's tomorrow's fish and chip rapper or whatever he goes and that's
02:14:25
true for everyone else but not the person involved yes and I feel like that's true for you um seems like it was
02:14:30
uh an ongoing thing for a while so I appreciate you you know raking over those old CTS yeah and and look I mean
02:14:37
as I say it's like everyone else that everyone we touched on and that they were on their own Journey you know so I
02:14:43
don't hold any of them I don't hold any grudges that's one thing I genuinely
02:14:49
feel I don't have a single grud against anyone I think anyone how they behaved
02:14:54
was always Justified all throughout you know um so but it but it doesn't change
02:15:01
how what I went through so that you know that that was a personal thing I they didn't have to go that I I did so I yeah
02:15:08
I mean I don't know I I feel like uh it's all it's all just part of the
02:15:13
journey right it's exciting I I want to keep going on but I I watched my father die just couple weeks
02:15:21
ago how old by the way 9094 one month short of 94 so 93 but um never made it to 100 much like yourself
02:15:29
yeah that's right yeah felt short um yeah should have done more should have achieved more
02:15:36
um but um no but it was like one of those things I I don't know you reflect a lot and I don't think I've fully
02:15:43
processed it but I guess my what I would say is like if you if you know have the
02:15:49
conversations you want to have with your parents now because by the time you realize you want to have them it's sort
02:15:55
of too late you know like a the aging process does catch up with people you know my father was and and what I think
02:16:04
happens is they dad was still had all his faculties but you know not to the point where you can have a philosophical
02:16:12
discussion and and by the time I wanted or felt I could have that with with my father I'd left I'd left it too long you
02:16:19
know and so I think having a better relationship with your parents just does can never start too soon you know and
02:16:28
demanding to have those conversations soon it's hard though way because it s
02:16:32
from what from what I've learned about your dad today like he was like just a
02:16:34
quite a stoic hard Northland farmer so if you don't have that sort of relationship not not necessarily a
02:16:41
friendship but that fatherson relationship that a lot of other people have it's hard to just sort of like
02:16:45
manufacture that yourself as an adult it it's almost that that's it and I
02:16:49
couldn't man I couldn't manufacture and in his own way it wasn't wouldn't have
02:16:53
been dad you know so he he didn't but which is not to say Dad was pH philosophical he had like it was just he
02:17:01
was a quiet stoic guy and he there was you know there's that Unwritten thing of
02:17:07
like I don't I don't need to tell you this cuz you already know it and of
02:17:11
course I did but it didn't mean I didn't rally against him going [ __ ] tell me
02:17:16
it though you know but also also um yeah I don't know what was said or what was
02:17:22
left unsaid but um you know he I'm sure he must have been immensely proud that
02:17:27
he gave you the poem If yeah as a posted to as a boy and that ended up becoming the the name of your business like is
02:17:34
that something you discussed no no we never did but You' You' when whenever
02:17:39
you've mentioned Triumph and disaster in the root of the name of your company um
02:17:43
you've mentioned him and um I it was a bege of Honor for him well like I don't
02:17:48
yeah that's what I sort of mean I think it's like we you know you wer a verbal family not
02:17:56
with my no not with my mother yes was like but like Mom Mom was different kid of fish but Dad was like the opposite
02:18:04
and it was like but I admire that in them too you know like I can't that's
02:18:08
the thing I think we we get so wound up in you know all these different things and it's like sometimes a s you know you
02:18:16
can understand people through silence right and just being with them and understanding them right and it's like
02:18:21
we know more about people you know not all communication is is verbal and and I think that you know sometimes I I said I
02:18:29
did find sorry to carry on I'll I'll shut up in a minute but no no I'm good
02:18:34
as long as you good well I did find this thing I my the thing I said which I really like at the moment is this um
02:18:41
intellectual honesty I said this on another um podcast with the guys at mandate actually who are awesome dudes
02:18:47
you should meet up with them they I've been on their podcast people and um anyway but like I found
02:18:54
myself talking about like intellectual honesty and I was like I reog it's the
02:18:57
thing that that social media is really taken away from us it's this ability to
02:19:01
make a statement and then hop out behind a su so if I want to have a proper conversation with you I've got to take
02:19:07
your opinion in the spirit that it's given and within the context that it's
02:19:12
given and it's so easy to take out of context one thing you've said inflame it
02:19:16
and twist it a little bit and Reay it back to you and totally misrepresent present you and what what does it
02:19:22
achieve it helps me win my point but it doesn't help us win a a common goal of
02:19:28
understanding each other or or working towards a solution on a topic you know and I feel like that we need to fight
02:19:35
for that intellectual honesty in all of our conversations that we can possibly have because that's the way we're going
02:19:41
to move forward as a country as a people as you know just generally but also I think when you're really honest with
02:19:49
someone and you really listen it forces you to listen and go and then you can learn and I I think that's what I'm most
02:19:56
excited about trying to do is learn a bit more like I feel like we get you reach a landing and I feel like
02:20:04
sometimes you close down because I've got got all this information that's got
02:20:06
me to this point I just need to consolidate this now and that stops you then bringing in more information
02:20:12
because you want to make the most of where you're at and sometimes and I just
02:20:16
feel like I'm at the cusp of like going actually you know what I actually need
02:20:19
more information and I want bring it in and open up and change and evolve a bit more and I'm open to that now you know
02:20:25
like the Stepping Stones all way some people I think can keep it on an escalator but I I tend to just have to
02:20:31
keep getting to Landings and control it a bit more that's um yeah you've got a
02:20:36
growth mindset so I feel like you're always going to be um trying to grow and
02:20:39
expand and get the best out of yourself and I I suppose um yeah one of the great
02:20:44
lessons that maybe you got from your dad is um how you parent your own kids differently yeah yeah you know you learn
02:20:51
you learn stuff some stuff to do and some stuff to do differently I suppose that's the blessing in a way well I
02:20:56
think I also think the one thing I would say kids are so smart they don't they
02:21:00
don't whatever whatever impact I think what I'm having is just about it's the
02:21:07
reality of it is about 1% of that you know so I'm far less important as like
02:21:11
than I've made myself out to be in like they just or at least in the sense of
02:21:16
what my message is to them they just I can see my oldest son looking at me and going
02:21:21
you know whatever and I'm not and I can sort of almost see it see his mind thinking
02:21:27
going man I'm not going to be like that but I'm going to you're over this side
02:21:33
um so yeah but no no but hey Willison thank you for having me on here cuz I I've enjoyed it I I feel like I watched
02:21:40
you I watched a bunch of them and you know cuz I we watched a bunch of the early ones and then you know you've been
02:21:46
so prolific that I I couldn't keep up but when I thought I'd come on here
02:21:50
and I think what you're doing I was really encouraged by watching it and just going well you
02:21:56
are asking really smart relevant questions and people are responding to that and I think that's a skill right
02:22:04
and that's why you've been successful I think you've like you I'm not just
02:22:07
blowing smoke it's like it feels like it's a really important thing you know
02:22:12
to have conversations like this so I just you know I hope you don't run out of you know kiwis to do it you might
02:22:18
have to move overseas but like it's so ening and I watched I didn't watch them all the way
02:22:24
through but I every person I was like oh man Z Gilford you know when I watched that I was like wow you got Zack
02:22:31
Guilford to offer up some stuff you know like I was like man this this is awesome
02:22:35
Matthew Ridge I was like he was that was an awesome he got the Warriors bit wrong
02:22:40
you you I'd love you need to get him back in cuz you it was two years ago and
02:22:44
it's just before all of the wi is kicked off yeah yeah like we get get him back
02:22:49
in Edam peror your old mate like I haven't watched it I've got to go and
02:22:52
watch some Mark Richardson I saw Mark was great too yeah it's it's bloody it's
02:22:56
bloody great one thing I'm realizing is that everyone absolutely everyone is dealing
02:23:01
with some [ __ ] yes and everyone's going through something and um I don't know
02:23:05
when you realize that it's quite it's quite comforting in a way it makes makes
02:23:08
you feel less aligned with what you're going through of course yeah and it's
02:23:11
just yeah yeah mate I I can't than you enough for your time as you know been a
02:23:16
big fan of your work for a number of years so it's finally it's good to find
02:23:19
I suppose you're one of those I've had on the back bur like Dion's just around
02:23:22
the corner we'll get him on one day um but you've been a great support and I'll
02:23:26
never forget that Triumph and disaster was the you know the first brand to come on board as a sponsor because um you
02:23:32
don't forget these little things no you don't and but thanks it's been awesome
02:23:36
and I'm I'm stoked to see it all going well so you know if we um I'm sure our
02:23:41
paths will cross again 100% now we near doing a fragrance are you going back to working on a fragrance now it's in the
02:23:47
pipeline actually so it's coming um uh and that's I'm more nervous about this
02:23:53
than any of the other ones we've done because it's like it's got to be right
02:23:56
you know so um you don't CU you know this is what you personally wear it as your signature so we've got we're
02:24:05
waiting on three more samples coming in from Europe first round's done so was
02:24:09
probably a few iterations away but hope hopefully we're getting pretty close
02:24:13
after this next set so awesome any um any like sneak peek about what the scent is or how do you describe drop when I've
02:24:21
got the next one I'll come down and you can be part of the process how about
02:24:24
that you smoke some weed can you spray someone disguises it's a I think you can yeah
02:24:31
it's a cheap shot I'm sorry ad on N thanks so much mate awesome good to see
02:24:36
you right [Music] oh