00:00:00
Journalists usually the worst people. >> What did the TV and Z newsroom look like
00:00:03
45 years ago? 46 years ago. Smoking type. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Smoking.
00:00:07
There was Ashtrays. Smoking was compulsory. >> When When you look back at that young
00:00:11
version of yourself, what do you admire about him? And what makes you cringe? >> Oh, jeepers. Jeepers. There are all
00:00:18
sorts of things that make you cringe. We also stole a bus one night. It always amazed me how better you live when
00:00:24
you're poor than when you're actually earning money. >> You're like um an ambassador and a
00:00:27
spokesperson for Men's Health. >> Yeah. I'm the director of it now. Men die from preventable diseases, you know,
00:00:33
so we've got to do something to stop that. >> What are your thoughts on the current
00:00:36
state of um New Zealand media? >> Oh, well, it's just Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is
00:00:44
the center of performance. Whenever there's a top performance in New Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:00:48
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that for days. That's the boys who got the Holland one in To.
00:00:56
>> He did it again. Hey Finn, how's the performance going? >> Top tier. >> Nice. This is our generate room. In here
00:01:02
you'll find our top performers helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver investments. Get in here Finn.
00:01:07
>> Maximize. Generate. >> Putting performance first. >> Mark Sainsbury Sainzo. Welcome to my
00:01:13
podcast. >> Thanks, Dom. >> This is really, really exciting for me. >> Well, I thought it would be.
00:01:20
Well, we just went to the the coffee store next door and uh you shouted me a coffee and I don't know if you're um
00:01:26
aware of this, but um even though you you haven't been on TV on a nightly basis for a long time, people still like
00:01:32
look at you like like you've got a face that they know from somewhere. >> Yeah. Yeah. And of course it still got
00:01:37
it be interesting if I shaved the mo off whether you would still get that. But yeah, um it tends to be a sort of
00:01:42
generational when the worst thing is on you'll be out somewhere and you know you
00:01:45
got a m going, "Oh, you must remember Mark. he was on TV and they're going, "Oh, you know, trying to be sort of, you
00:01:50
know, I got no idea who that guy is, you know." Um, but yeah, so we it was I worked for TV and Zed for a long time
00:01:57
and it was great fun. >> It really was good fun. >> You see, you spent decades getting the
00:02:03
truth out of other people. How how comfortable are you when someone like me tries to get the truth out of you?
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>> It's always funny. I mean, it's always when the boots on their other foot, it
00:02:11
never is. Um, journalists usually are the worst people. Some love it. Some will talk about themselves sort of
00:02:16
endlessly. Um, yeah, it's you get used to asking other people questions and not so much taking them yourself
00:02:21
>> cuz from what I can gather, this is your first ever long form podcast interview.
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There there's a few bits and pieces online like things you've done with Duncan Garner, things you've done with
00:02:31
Matt and Jerry on Holdi, but but nothing. Well, I always and when I was in the job, when I got the the the
00:02:37
close-up gig, um, and I'd worked up with Paul Holmes when Paul was there. Yeah, but everything centered around Paul, you
00:02:43
know, the reporters were sort of like secondass citizens and the thing. And I always thought if I was ever there, I
00:02:49
want to be more, you know, not, you know, have to grab all the limelight yourself. You want to try and share the
00:02:53
love. Um, I also avoided doing any interviews or publicity stuff and everything like that, which everyone
00:02:59
people used to get paid for doing it back in those days, some of them. But I was always of the view that if you
00:03:04
didn't push yourself and your family out there, if your kids got into some kind of [ __ ] you could say, "Look, hey, I've
00:03:10
never used them. They've never been part of the deal. So, you know, piss off. Don't don't try and you know, but but if
00:03:16
you're out there hawking yourself and your family story and look, Mark at home with the kids and Mark home and all this
00:03:22
sort of stuff, then you bring it on." So that's that's why so I always tried to sort of take a bit of a step back and it
00:03:28
was a bit I suppose of the oldfashioned thing. you weren't the story. Even though that slot, that 7:00 slot became
00:03:35
personality focused. Um, it was really was more about other people, you know. Did that sound sincere?
00:03:41
>> It No, it it's makes perfect sense as well cuz it seems like a double-edged sword. You can't you can't have it you
00:03:46
can't control the you can't control the narrative when it suits you. You can't do like a a fluff piece for Women's Day
00:03:52
and then if your kid gets done for drunk driving, say, "Actually, I don't want this in the news."
00:03:55
>> Yeah. The next thing you get is the old line you used to be. Now, we're going to
00:03:58
be doing the story with or without you. >> Yeah. >> So, you were 69 now, 17 later this year.
00:04:05
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> How are you? How's the health? >> Oh, health is actually pretty good. Um,
00:04:09
I've lost weight over the last few years. >> You're looking lean. >> Yeah. But I keep running into and I've
00:04:14
been lean for a while, but I keep running into people who haven't seen me in ages. You're right. Um, you know, and
00:04:19
you could see that you could say you know exactly what they're thinking. And I always go, well, I've got to give a
00:04:23
little page if we could. If you could start filling that up, it'd be really appreciated.
00:04:29
>> You What did you do? Cuz um yeah, there was a couple of pieces online I read and
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you've lost like 15 or 20 kilos a couple years ago. >> Yeah. Yeah. But at over probably 18
00:04:36
months or so, you know, it wasn't sort of it wasn't sort of went on some big dramatic thing or whatever. I was on um
00:04:42
you know at that stage I think I was pre-diabetic or type 2 diabetic. I had I was on um blood pressure meds and I
00:04:49
thought I got to do something. So cut back on the piss basically. So I I love a drink but you know it maybe two nights
00:04:57
a week max you know um but it's not regimented but just conscious of of that and smaller meals was we used to eat
00:05:05
just and I love food and all that stuff so that was that was the genesis of it and just gradually over time and um yeah
00:05:13
but it's yeah I still get you know it's funny isn't it? Oh, we preferred you when you were fatter.
00:05:20
>> Cuz you're like um an ambassador and a spokesperson for Men's Health. >> Yeah, I'm the director of it. Now,
00:05:24
there's a mate of mine called Timmy Green and he was working for these Aussies who were running it about Deb
00:05:29
Bale New Zealand and and he said, "Look, we got to keep this thing going." So, he
00:05:33
and I run it and it's just an awareness campaign. We don't rattle a tin. It's not about money. So, I mean, we keep the
00:05:40
thing afloat. I mean, the master builders have have sponsored it since the beginning because construction and
00:05:45
industry, major health issues, suicide, all sorts of things. So, they're really serious about it. So, we keep it going.
00:05:53
We call on mates, you know, like Jeremy Wells. I mean, you know, you're going to
00:05:57
be up next, Dom. You know, we'll twist their arm and that's what we use to sort of just get publicity over that one
00:06:01
week. And the whole idea is look, men die from preventable diseases, you know, so we've got to do something to stop
00:06:09
that. So things like heart disease, suicide, suicide is one of the biggest, you know, preventable killers of men.
00:06:17
Um, so it's that sort of stuff. So it's purely an awareness campaign. And if we can persuade just a few guys just to
00:06:23
make little changes. We don't lecture, but small changes. And on our website, men'shealthweek.co.nz,
00:06:29
we've got this thing called watch your score. And you can go on and do watch your score and check and and it's just
00:06:35
all sorts of prompts. That's our centerpiece. So yeah, we're just um we're just trying to encourage guys.
00:06:41
That's what it's about because the health stats from men are pretty bad. You know, men live four years less than
00:06:47
women do. Maybe they want to. Who knows? But but and the other thing is if you're
00:06:53
Mari, you've got a one and a Mari male has a one in two chance of qualifying for the pension
00:06:59
>> because they die under 65. 48% die under 65. >> Genetics or lifestyle factors or both?
00:07:05
>> There was lifestyle factors. There's all sorts of things. I mean, and environmental factors. There's just the
00:07:10
fact that it's access to a doctor. See, a lot of the stuff people I was talking to someone who you've had on on your
00:07:16
show, Scott Beard, >> he got cancer three times. So, what saved him? He went to a doctor.
00:07:21
>> He went to a doctor instead of taking the concrete pill. And a lot of guys, I
00:07:25
don't need to go along. Oh, yeah. Whatever. This, you know, no good comes from going to the doctor. Um, so that's
00:07:30
a that's a big big factor. Or accessibility. Not everyone like you and I can afford to go to a doctor or has
00:07:37
access to one. Yeah. So instead of getting down I can hear what people say. Oh well they're all at the KFC you know
00:07:42
they deserve it. No we got to look there's a problem figure out how we can solve it rather than looking at who's to
00:07:47
blame. >> So that's us. >> And um so you've had a hip replacement. >> Yeah. When was that?
00:07:53
>> Well see this is an interesting thing. The hip replacement that was a couple of
00:07:56
years ago and um I tell you I don't wish that on anyone. It would just but should
00:08:01
we be walk along you'd stumble. I was at a mate's birthday party. Um, he had a 64th. He's a big Beatles fan, you know,
00:08:08
and so he had a 64th birthday party. >> Oh, will you still need me? Will you still And guy called Keith Ke Keith
00:08:14
Tanic and Katherine Bon. I was down south and I remember coming walk along to their deck hip went tripped on the
00:08:19
deck and could see everyone go sainsbury pissed again, you know, and all that. You'd be walking down the road and you
00:08:25
it was and the pain. So >> this was pre or post operation pre. So you go along to these things. Now,
00:08:31
here's an interesting tale. You go along to this clinic, you see, which is the, you know, orthopedic clinic at the
00:08:37
hospital. And I thought, now before I go, I'm going to pay to go and see a specialist, so I know what's going on. I
00:08:42
go and see this guy called Peter Deain. He says, "Yep, well, you got this. You'll go to this clinic and you have no
00:08:47
chance of getting it done." Oh, thanks, Peter. He says, "Look, I'm not trying to
00:08:51
be mean, but there'll be a hundred people presenting worse than you. You need to come and see someone like me and
00:08:56
go private." I said, "Well, I've got no insurance. I'm not going private. I'm going to have a crack at this." So I go
00:09:00
along to the clinic. Who's running it? Peter Deain. And he says, "I told you it's not looking good." Anyway, so I go
00:09:09
through, get this letter saying, "You recently went to the uh orthopedic clinic for a hip replacement. Your
00:09:14
surgeons recommended you for surgery. You know, you would benefit from the surgery, but we run a priority system,
00:09:19
and unfortunately, you don't make the cut." Okay, fair enough. All right. Then came the boat that just pissed me off.
00:09:25
We suggest recommend you go back to your GP and look at alternative providers including private.
00:09:31
What the [ __ ] >> you're telling me? You the state are telling me I should go and pay for it
00:09:36
myself. That's what you're saying. Now I I I can understand it the priority thing
00:09:40
and all that sort of stuff. But when they started saying go and pay for it yourself. I thought I was so pissed off.
00:09:45
I thought about going public then. Oh, it looks like you're just trying to leverage your way up the queue, you
00:09:50
know. So I was sitting on a plane going up to Aland and I look across the aisle.
00:09:55
Oh, who's that? The leader of the Labour Party is is Andrew. They also was the health minister at the time. How you
00:10:04
going? Says Andrew. I said, "Oh, yeah, not bad." I said, "Um, I need a hip replacement, but apart from that, oh
00:10:09
well, of course we put in lots of elective, you know, post and da da da." I said, look, yeah, I've got no problem
00:10:14
with that. and look I but you know what really pissed me off was getting a letter from the DHB who they were
00:10:20
dismantling at the time uh to say that they're um uh go and pay for it yourself what I'd like to see that letter I said
00:10:28
look the reason I never didn't send it to begin with is I don't want this used as some kind of leverage you know no I
00:10:34
want to see it so I forward them the letter next I get a call another clinic appointment there was a vacancy you know
00:10:41
for the next because basically what they do is those who don't make the cut, they
00:10:45
wipe the list. So there's no waiting list. See, so have you've made the cut, wipe the list, your doctor has to refer
00:10:52
you again. So um I get this u then get this letter from the um from the uh DHB um sort of saying, "Oh, we have this
00:11:02
policy of da da and this is why we do it, etc., etc." Which which I knew that, you know, and um I'd written to them
00:11:08
saying, you know, is this now part of the the furniture? do are we now expected you know that's privatization
00:11:14
etc etc etc anyway they came back with all those things the priority system is fair I said get all that get all that
00:11:19
I'm just asking you what is a DHB doing writing to a person punter asking them to pay is that is that appropriate and
00:11:26
then meanwhile it's gone to that copy to minister you know and um then I get a call saying oh no there's a gap at the
00:11:32
next one you know which my doctor was going to try and get me onto I go along there everything had changed everything
00:11:38
had changed there there was a different surgeon there Oh, oh, you look terrible.
00:11:42
You know, don't really I don't think I'm that much different from last time. Oh,
00:11:45
no, no, this is terrible and whatever. Go home. Next thing I get this letter, you have been selected
00:11:52
a priority treatment. Eh, >> and I thought, you know, this really pisses me off because some other old
00:11:58
codger is there waiting to get a hip thing. He's going to get jumped over by me only because I've got some possible
00:12:04
clout and they don't want to pick a fight. And these people don't. They don't have that leverage. And I thought,
00:12:10
[ __ ] what do I do here? And then I thought, God, I desperately want to get this thing done. I'm just I went and got
00:12:16
it done. And even better, it was done in a private hospital. >> But it's um Yeah, it's shocking though
00:12:21
that it's the case of the squeaky wheel getting >> It's exactly that. But I tell you, after
00:12:25
I had it done, I realized how much pain I had been in because we do minimize. I just couldn't believe how great this
00:12:32
thing was, >> you know. >> And you just learn to live with the discomfort, I guess.
00:12:35
>> Yeah. >> And how's your mental health been? How's everything been on the inside? me help
00:12:39
pretty good. Pretty good. This year I tell you I had a I had a bit of a this year I was thinking
00:12:44
>> you know because one of the things we always say if you're not if you're worried about yourself or whatever go
00:12:48
and see someone >> and this year I tell you because Wellington's just been so hard and sort
00:12:53
of work drying up and just all one thing after another blew up the engine on here. Here's here's a third first world
00:12:59
problem for you. Blew up the engine on my Aston Martin. >> Oh I I heard about this somewhere in
00:13:04
Patardoo of all places. No, Bari. The head blew the head gasket. Well, no. We thought we' blown the head gasket. That
00:13:10
one's a false alarm. Then it blew. It was just Anyway, >> by the way, an old Aston Martin.
00:13:15
>> Look, it's a DB7, the cheapest Aston Martin you could buy. You know, >> cuz you're a car guy. Ess what other
00:13:20
cars have you got? >> Well, I had a a Bentley Cornesh convertible, which old man Fletcher had
00:13:26
brand new. It was the very first one made. It's what there was only I think of this particular type 21 I think ever
00:13:31
in the world. I love that car. Max um you know Frank Sonatra had one, Liam Gallagha had one, you know, everyone had
00:13:37
one and um but I sold that to some South African guy who was taken over there. >> Um and but my the car I've got that I
00:13:45
never sell because I've still got the book at home 1963 observer book of cars cuz I came from a family of six boys and
00:13:53
we all had out this book our favorite car and mine was the 1963 Lincoln Continental four-door convertible. It
00:14:00
was the same car Kennedy was assassinated in which was a stretched version. Suicide doors at the back.
00:14:06
>> Um but at that time it was the only four-door convertible. And I wanted one of Ever since I was a kid and um just
00:14:13
before I took over on started done closeup. I found one in um in Montana and Whitefish Montana from a guy called
00:14:21
Larry Funk and it was his father-in-law's car. It done 56,000 miles. It was the perfect year. It was
00:14:29
the last year with the curved side windows, you know, all this sort of thing. It ticked every box. I bought it
00:14:34
practically sight unseen >> and I would never sell it because I' just it's a car. I still got the the
00:14:38
book, still got the car. >> Incredible. >> I should have kept the Bentley as an investment probably was a Bentley would
00:14:44
have been a better thing to keep. But no, this thing this was the my car since I was 7 years old. you know,
00:14:48
>> we have you got a big garage at home or >> I I Well, we built a we built a double
00:14:53
garage at the back of our house after I'd got my redundancy and um we um I should have made it bigger. I mean, it
00:15:01
was it's funny, you know, you just I just underestimated it. But now I've got some storage out in Upperhat. I sort of
00:15:06
keep it in during the winter, but I just like to use it all the time. Even though
00:15:09
it's a 7 liter V8 that does about 12 miles to the gallon, you know, you've just got to, you know, people say, "What
00:15:14
is what's the mileage?" to go. Well, I've never actually checked really to be honest because what's the point, you
00:15:19
know, it's not going to be good. >> So, you either want to drive it or you don't, you know.
00:15:23
>> Yeah. And you've got it for the right reasons. >> Yeah. >> It's it's I've got friends that are
00:15:27
collectors of different things and they'll they'll never take say the sneakers out of the box and it's like
00:15:32
the point. >> I get it. Well, see, it's like toys, you know, because um I love the things I
00:15:37
also collect Phantom comics and I've been collecting that since I was a kid. I love the Phantom. Like the idea of the
00:15:42
Phantom is always good, but toys, you look at toy, anything, it's got to be in the box, you know? You think, "Oh,
00:15:48
what's the point?" The first thing you want to do when you get something is rip that open and sort of have a play with
00:15:52
it, you know. >> Yeah. Hey, when did the mustache become part of your identity? >> It's funny. I Well, I grew a mustache,
00:15:59
you know, I'm talking about in the ' 70s, and I shaved it off once, and my girlfriend at the time, well, she's now
00:16:08
my wife, said, "Grow it back." So, I've had this unreved since about 1978, probably.
00:16:16
>> Incredible. So, the mustache is almost 50 years old. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> The same same style, same
00:16:21
>> Yeah. Yeah. It sort of got it gradually got bigger and um but it was always the
00:16:25
same style. I think it was called the General, I think, original, whatever. But, um you know, and and and they went
00:16:31
in and it's funny because this this has survived the facicissitudes of fashion as they came in and out. You know, you
00:16:38
look like a 70s porn star one minute, you know, then all that stuff, you know, but stuff it, you know, it was sort of I
00:16:46
always remember those words, grow it back. >> So, you'll never get rid of it. You
00:16:49
you'll die with it on >> probably. Who knows? Who knows? I mean, the other thing is it' be a great way to
00:16:53
disappear, wouldn't it? You know, after you've done the bank robbery, you just shave star shop, get a toupe, and no
00:16:58
one's ever going to find you ever again. But you must have had a lot of pressure
00:17:01
over the years like from Movember campaigners and things to >> that used to drive you know every I
00:17:05
dreaded Movember every every year phone WOULD RING HEY MARK IT'S SO AND SO HERE FROM some PR company you know or some
00:17:14
radio station WE'VE GOT THIS GREAT IDEA YOU KNOW for Movember I thought let me guess you know and so I'd always say
00:17:21
look I'm sorry I'm contractually obliged not to shave it off because it's going to cause every problem for the for the
00:17:26
all the publicity photos and everything like that which did happen once with Richard Long. He went off for the
00:17:31
holidays, had done all the publicity photos for the for the next year and he shaved this mustache off. They had to
00:17:37
fly everyone back to do it again. >> Yeah. So, you mentioned your wife before being a fan of your mustache. So, that's
00:17:44
Ramona. Yeah. >> Um she still works as a lawyer. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, she's got a
00:17:49
practice out in Kernie. Ramona Rash at Law. Um she does a lot of elder care. She's really good with that's huge
00:17:55
growth. sort of, you know, enduring powers of attorneys and estates and that sort of stuff. But she's really good
00:18:00
with people. That's her thing. That's a feedback. I mean, I get this from, you know, clients who say, "Oh, we love your
00:18:04
wife. You know, she's so fantastic." >> But it's tough, you know, and just doing
00:18:09
running a business even in in Wellington is tough, you know, for everyone. >> But that's a successful partnership.
00:18:14
Hey, how long have you guys been married? >> Um, we got married in 1984. >> 84. Oh, my math is terrible. That's like
00:18:23
40 43 years. >> Yeah. Yeah. 42. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's incredible. >> I mean, it's had its ups and downs. I
00:18:29
mean, I went to the UK for three years. >> Yeah. >> As a Europe correspondent. Well, she had
00:18:34
she had a law practice. So, >> yeah. When your kids were quite young, too, like like primary school age.
00:18:38
>> Yeah. As they remind me. >> Yeah. When you abandoned us, dad, >> we'll get to that later. Yeah. That's
00:18:43
Arabella and Hunter who are late 30s now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, you and your wife, no plans to
00:18:49
retire, slow down. >> Well, can't afford to yet. >> Yeah. Oh, really? Oh, look, you know,
00:18:53
it's sort of I like to keep keep working. I enjoy working. I like doing things, you know. Um, and you know,
00:19:01
Ramona kept wanting me to do a podcast. I said, "What? That just look, you know,
00:19:04
like those buddy wannabes like Dom, you know, that just no no high end." Um, but I mean that's
00:19:11
everything's changed, hasn't it? That whole media landscape has changed. You know, we used to rely before, oh god, if
00:19:17
we have not with a network or something like that. Nowadays, you know, if you got the right mix and you got the right
00:19:22
juice, you'll do what you've done. You can make a huge success out of it. >> There's no no gatekeepers anymore. And
00:19:28
and the um yeah, the barrier to entry was always like the transmitters or the frequencies, whatever. Now,
00:19:32
>> but go to rock shop, buy 1,500 or JB High, buy 1,500 bucks worth of gear and you can get started.
00:19:37
>> I mean, I bought one of those um road podcasters just for, you know, doing some stuff for the men's health week.
00:19:42
But >> great piece of kit. >> Yeah. So, but but I had to get a young person in to sort
00:19:47
of tune it up. Then realized I could look online. I did manage to master it, but some of that stuff, you know, you
00:19:54
feel just like, oh my god. >> Are you How are you with um like tech? >> Oh, yeah. Some stuff some some I'm not
00:20:00
bad with some stuff that tell you what drives me insane at the moment is they change all the settings on mail, you
00:20:07
know. So, hang on. I've sent you an email. I can't find it. It's on primary, not on all mail. and it's just adjusted
00:20:13
this stuff and or they stack all the emails under each other and going where's this thing?
00:20:19
>> Oh my god, I'm the same. I'm I'm staring at my future self. >> It's terrible. I feel like I'm getting
00:20:25
left behind. >> Great to see you. But the thing is AI is going to save us all, you know, so it'll
00:20:29
do it all for us, you know, >> before the machines march in, you know. >> That's this is a great opening. This is
00:20:35
going to be a great chat. I'm super excited about this. There's a lot to unpack. Um, first of all, earliest
00:20:41
memories. Who who still calls you Greg? Does anyone call me >> No, no, no. And and and I was never see
00:20:46
my oldest brother bead was Christopher bead. Then John was Robert John. Paul actually was Paul Thomas and I'm Gregory
00:20:53
Mark, but always meant to be called Mark. I don't know what my parents were thinking, but you know, they had this
00:20:57
they had this sort of weird idea about it. Um >> it's always been Mark then. >> So it's always been Mark.
00:21:03
>> And where were you in the birth order? >> Fourth. >> Fourth. Um how did you know whose
00:21:08
toothbrush was who? >> Yeah, I know. Well, we didn't like to brush our teeth, you know. You just
00:21:11
ignore that. I mean, that we grew up, you're probably too young for this, but the the the school dental nurse, you
00:21:17
know. Oh, >> the murder house. >> The murder house. There's still I always remember the nuns went this Catholic
00:21:22
primary school and they write up a you knew this what this this is the people are going to have to go to the dentist
00:21:26
that afternoon and you'd be sitting there, please, please, please don't make it me. Don't make it me. Don't make it
00:21:30
me. And you go down to the murder house and it's just when you think about it and you look at all these things where
00:21:36
they have, you know, survivors of different, you know, cruel treatments by the government can sue. Since when
00:21:42
they're bringing in kids and drilling into their nerves without anesthetic was considered a good idea, you know, it was
00:21:49
so painful. >> It was just so painful and you just dreaded going and um yeah, it was
00:21:54
>> I think I think I got the uh so you you're born in 56. I was born in 73. I think I got the tail end of it, but the
00:22:00
uh the gentle nurse would come into a classroom and you'd sit there dreading that it was your name.
00:22:04
>> Not me. Not me. I know. I know. >> That's wild. >> The only the only good thing I remember
00:22:09
was, you know, was you get these quite bucksome ones would sort of press up press up on your neck, you know, as
00:22:14
they're sort of doing this thing. So, there's this strange mix of youthful not quite what's going on here thoughts and
00:22:21
pain, you know. So, it's a surprise we didn't all become sort of say massochists.
00:22:26
So, how many brothers did you share a bedroom with? >> Uh, no, usually just two of us to a
00:22:31
room, >> right? >> Um, >> so a four bedroomedroom house. >> No, we had a three Oh, well, hang on.
00:22:36
Yes, yes, yes, we did. But it started off um they moved into the house in Heratonga when I was born and then they
00:22:43
had two more kids and so they had to add an extension on out the back. Really funny. It's Bair Street Heratonga and I
00:22:49
went past there the other day. I was going out to um for all things a class reunion. That's a bit freaky. People you
00:22:56
haven't seen in over 50 years. Um went out to this thing and I went out to the old house and the house had been
00:23:03
straightened up, pushed down to the back of the section and six town houses built
00:23:07
on the front lawn. >> Wow. >> And it's sort of quite, >> you know, it was that was my whole life.
00:23:11
It's the only house I lived in, you know. >> So, >> how many bathrooms in the house? Was
00:23:16
there >> one? No shower, only a bath. >> Wow. >> Bags bags first or second go at the
00:23:21
bath. >> What was um Yeah. Shared bath water. Was did it go oldest to youngest or youngest
00:23:25
oldest? Yeah. Oldest. >> Not that it mattered for you. You're in the middle. >> Yeah. Yeah. But it's Yeah. Yeah. It's It
00:23:30
was, you know, it was um Lord of the Flies, you know, when it comes to the bar. >> Yeah.
00:23:33
>> I was thinking about that the other day cuz it was I'm I'm one of four and I think it was um I can't remember if it
00:23:38
was oldest to youngest, youngest oldest, but um was it a money saving? Was water
00:23:41
expensive or was it a a convenience thing? >> Well, no. Well, there was a limit to
00:23:46
because you had the old hot water heater, you know, and eventually it's going to run out, you know. So, probably
00:23:50
pour one bath, maybe two baths. you've done the you've done the cylinder, you know, and there's nothing whereas you
00:23:55
turn on the tap hoping it. No, it's cold. The hot water's coming out cold. You can't heat it up. Or mom would boil
00:24:00
a jug and bring in, you know, a jug of hot water into the bath, you know. And I remember going around to one of my best
00:24:07
mates, Mike, heating around to his house >> and they HAD A SHOWER. WOW. YOU KNOW,
00:24:11
THIS THING HAD THE OLD TOPLESS, YOU KNOW, WITH the big dial on it. >> Oh, this was sophisticated.
00:24:16
>> But, you know, that was it. >> What was the most trouble you got him? Were you a bad kid or a good kid?
00:24:23
>> Neutral. >> Yeah, look, we didn't get into we didn't get into much. I mean, the whole idea
00:24:27
was just don't get caught, you know. >> Um, and uh same as sort of at school. Um, you know, the worst I think just
00:24:35
trying to think of the worst trouble we got in school at St. Pats, you know, with the old mad caning Mars priests.
00:24:41
Um, and the weird thing was my uncle was provincial of the order at one stage, you know.
00:24:46
>> Wow. >> But there are very strange, very strange mob. I remember having a conversation
00:24:50
with them once. I think it was my parents 50th wedding anniversary we had at my place and there was a couple of
00:24:55
old priests there and >> oh it's terrible this business that's going on with the church. This is where
00:24:59
you know they're exposing all the pedophile priest. Back in our day it was just dealt with you know. Yeah that's
00:25:04
the problem. That's the problem. You know you tell send the priest one school who had been interfering who's packed up
00:25:10
and sent off to Pakistan. Oh yeah good one. >> Problem solved. >> Problem solved.
00:25:15
>> So um after school you you went to university. You studied law and dropped. When did you drop out?
00:25:21
>> Uh must have been my third year. Um >> Oh, really? Third year? >> Yeah. At the start and I'd got into
00:25:26
student politics, you know, stood for the the exec and all that sort of stuff. Um but then and then left and went
00:25:33
driving buses cuz I thought get a bit of >> Yeah. Why did you quit? Why'd you quit
00:25:39
uni? >> Uh >> were you bored? You just decided it wasn't your thing? >> Yeah. No, I quite liked it. I can't
00:25:45
think what it was just like yeah I want to do something or I was broke or just decided to go and do something else come
00:25:50
back to it. So I went >> that would have been a bit So you would have gone to the states in Mexico to um
00:25:55
drive buses and be a bar manager in the like early '7s. >> Yeah. Yeah. Went no went to went to um
00:26:01
went to the went to states in 78. >> Right. Oh late '7s. >> Yeah. So I'd been driving buses and and
00:26:08
I was the bar manager at Barrett's Hotel for a while. That was an interesting That was an interesting time because
00:26:14
that was a big student pub and and uh and f you're the manager say oh trouble down in the public bar. Oh my god. But
00:26:22
we had the bounces you and the best time of all I had a guy called Jeff Rackley who was a New Zealand boxing champion
00:26:29
and they'd say trouble in the bar upstairs. So you go walking up he's behind you and you were fearless because
00:26:35
you knew whatever happens you just take one step to the left, one step back and in comes Jeff, you know. So because you
00:26:41
are fearless, people pick up on it. So you'd come in and say, "Right, you guys out of here. You've had enough." And
00:26:46
they'd know, "Oh, he's he's not scared. He's not worried. He's there's nothing."
00:26:50
It's amazing. They go never ever Jeff never ever had to actually do anything. There mere presence there. And it
00:26:56
affected how you present and it's all about your body language and everything like that. That was half the thing.
00:27:01
>> So that was sort of that was sort of quite fun days. And then sort of um yeah, headed off headed off on the bit
00:27:06
of travel. What >> what did that role teach you about human behavior? It told us I mean one of the things is
00:27:13
never judge you yeah never judge people for a start I mean you always some of the people you come and you think are
00:27:18
going to be the worst or is going to be trouble quite often it's not >> and sometimes the people you least
00:27:23
suspect the quiet ones can be the ones who are causing issues you know and you know and just trying to be reasonable
00:27:29
most people if you're reasonable with them you get a result you know others you take a step to the left and one step
00:27:35
back you know >> yeah I had Sir Steve Hansen on the last year and we talked about his his time as
00:27:41
a police officer and and he said that the the big lesson he got is to go into a confrontation at a two out of 10 cuz
00:27:47
you can escalate up but you can't escalate down. >> So yeah, it's interesting. Um the bus driving stunt um was it like
00:27:55
Kentucky were you were you >> No, but but but no, this is at the Wellington with the big reds and um I
00:28:03
got sacked in the end because I missed a Sunday shift or something like that but
00:28:07
whatever. I'd also crashed one of their buses. We also stole a bus one night um after I left there. We went to a
00:28:14
>> because you knew where the key was. >> Well, there were no keys. This is the thing. There's a handle on the side and
00:28:18
we went to this Miss Wellington. This is terrible. Miss Wellington contest. This
00:28:22
was years before hooked up and a friend of mine was um was in the Miss Wellington contest and she said, "Oh,
00:28:29
would I escort one of the contestants there?" Anyway, that um that became quite interesting. Anyway, we get there
00:28:35
on the night and um myself and a mate, we just did a runner. I mean, because they all all got so petty and all this
00:28:41
sort of stuff and for whatever reason, we we shot through and we're walking back going back to Kelvin and we go and
00:28:47
he said, "You know how to get these buses going?" "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." So, we went and get this thing, get into
00:28:51
it. We I had a white dinner jacket with a pink carnation, the whole thing. And we start driving back in this bus and
00:28:56
it's like 1:00 in the morning, you know, driving through town and we get to and I'm thinking, [ __ ] we're going to get
00:29:01
like, you know, we're going to get caught here, you know, got up the terrace and the paranoia is just getting
00:29:06
too much at that stage. So you and you got to stall them to stop them. So put it in gear, put on the handbrake,
00:29:13
buses going like this. We leap out, run up the cable car track and sort of back to and I remember lying in bed thinking,
00:29:19
"Oh my god, when it runs out of diesel, the compression and the brake cylinder is going to go and this thing is going
00:29:24
to start, you know, careering down the terrace, wiping out some family on their way to church, you know,
00:29:30
>> and I just thought, you know, how you get and never heard a thing about it and
00:29:33
I'd maybe drove taxis and he said he oh yeah, they were talking about it on the radio course cuz they didn't want any
00:29:38
publicity because they want people to know how easy it was, you know, but >> God, we were close." When you when you
00:29:44
look back at that young version of yourself, what do you admire about him and what makes you cringe?
00:29:49
>> Oh, jeepers. Jeepers. There are all sorts of things that make you cringe. It's I guess the things that make you
00:29:55
cringe the most is is things where you might have been cruel or unkind to someone. You think back and oh, I didn't
00:30:00
need to do or say that. You know, I was too smart or you hurt someone's feelings.
00:30:05
>> We went to this here's the thing. We went to the school reunion, the class of
00:30:08
1970 from St. Pat Silver Street and there's about 70 odd of us and some of them you hadn't seen over 50 years. Had
00:30:14
no idea. The the guys who organized it had this genius idea. You wore a um a lanyard with your third form picture on
00:30:23
it and your name underneath, you know. Anyway, and all these emails were going backwards and forwards. And there was
00:30:28
one from a guy I knew who I used to hang out with when we were primary school and
00:30:33
then the first couple years at Silverstream called Robert Leming. He'd been um he had been um his father's a
00:30:38
doctor. I moved to the States anyway and he said, "Oh, sorry. I can't be there."
00:30:42
And hooked in or something or other. And then lobs in with and Mark Sainsbury, I'll never forgive you for telling me
00:30:48
that my teeth were going to rot one day and I was been paranoid about them ever since. And so, oh my god. Talk about not
00:30:55
dealing with issues. And so I I put in a reply saying, "Well, you got me to thank
00:31:00
for you. You're having great teeth now then, haven't you know, and uh but it's funny how things you can just hang on to
00:31:05
things or whether it was Yeah, but it was just obviously it was still in his memory.
00:31:09
>> Yeah. >> And how those things can sort of hang there, you know, >> they can define someone's life in a way.
00:31:14
>> Yeah. I always remember sitting there next to a guy called Ross Patterson who
00:31:18
had he's a lovely guy, Ross, but he had had very fine white hair and was always immaculate. And this priest wanted up
00:31:25
and stood next to him reading something from a book and started playing with his
00:31:28
hair and going all that's that's normal. You know, yeah, sure thing. You know, he
00:31:34
was the same priest who was supposed to take us for sex education. And he came and he wrote on the blackboard, penis,
00:31:40
vagina. Now, a man has a and a woman has a See, he would never actually say the words and we're all going, "Where's this
00:31:51
going?" you know, >> dear. And his name was Bar Head. >> Oh my god. Wow. >> So, um, after the, um, the the, um, bus
00:32:04
driving stunt and the the bar stuff, you return to New Zealand and you go back to
00:32:08
studying journalism. >> Well, yeah, I was going to go back to uni. So, that was the idea. Go back go
00:32:11
back, finish off the degree. And I didn't want to be a poor student. It always amazed me how better you lived
00:32:18
when you were poor than when you're actually earning money. You know, when you were student, we used to go skiing.
00:32:23
We used to out to the pubs. We'd be doing things. I mean, mind you, you'd be working part-time and stuff, but that
00:32:28
balance seemed to be much better. Then you sort of once you start taking on responsibilities and things, you don't
00:32:33
seem to have that same latitude. So, I was thinking, I want to do something. I had this vague idea. I could go and work
00:32:38
for NZPA at night and sort of fund my, you know, universities. >> What's NZPA? >> New Zealand Press Association. And they
00:32:46
were like, they were like AP or whatever. They were the the Journal of Record. They would cover everything and
00:32:51
they were a subscription service. All the papers got it from them. So they didn't get to a select committee, NZPA
00:32:57
would have been there. You know, if they didn't get to this, NZPA would have done
00:33:00
it, you know. So it was that sort of thing like Reuters or same sort of thing. Um so anyway, that that was the
00:33:06
idea. So I went and applied myself and this mate Mike Keing, we went he came with us, we both applied
00:33:12
>> and but it was like there was about 400 people applying for this course. I'd have been more.
00:33:17
>> I got in, he didn't. Um and then before the end of the course I applied for this
00:33:23
job out of Avalon as a um as a researcher and I turn up out there and there's one of those sort of panel you
00:33:29
know things four people sitting there you know and anyway they go through it blah blah blah blah and I thought oh I
00:33:36
haven't got much of a chance here then they say okay if you were working here what's a story you'd pitch up for us
00:33:40
today and we've just done this thing as part of the course we ran the local paper and we've just done this sort of
00:33:46
big feature and don't forget this is 1980 and unemployment is huge. And people were seriously talking about there will
00:33:53
never be full employment again. We'll be down to, you know, Britain was doing the
00:33:57
3-day week and it's going to be we've got to get used to the fact there won't be full-time employment. So, our pitch
00:34:02
on this this thing we did was do we need to start training ourselves for leisure?
00:34:08
You know, we're going to have to start train not just for work, but for how we're dealing with our leisure time. So,
00:34:12
I said that this be my idea and they all start looking each other. that I thought, "Oh, that's a be a dud."
00:34:19
>> And they said, "We've just commissioned that exact story this morning." >> Wow.
00:34:25
>> Yeah. And I would never nailed it. >> Yeah. I would never have got that job if
00:34:29
id applied for it the next year or the year after. There were PhD people and whatever, but it was once you were in
00:34:35
>> that was it. And TV and Zed was a fantastic place because you could jump from department to department and do
00:34:40
different things and you learned of all these amazing people. I had a brilliant time there. You know
00:34:45
>> what did the TV and Z newsroom look like 45 years ago, 46 years ago. Smoking type.
00:34:49
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Smoking. In fact, we had the old film cans. And when I first started there in
00:34:55
the news, we were still using single double a single system film. So 16 mil film which had a mag stripe on the side.
00:35:03
So that recorded the sound and the film went onto the Wow. But you imagine as it
00:35:08
goes through a projector, there's a gap between the image that's being captured by the lens and the sound that's being
00:35:15
captured by the sound thing. The sound thing's down here. So when they're aligned, you'll get it in sync. But this
00:35:22
much has to go through the gate before your first picture. So that's why you get you get a lot of people doing what
00:35:28
they call gold fishing. Anyway, it it was it was it was pretty crude. It was pretty crude, but it was fantastic. But
00:35:34
there was ashtrays. Smoking was compulsory. Um there's a guy Bill Knight there who hated smoking. He got told
00:35:42
where he could go. Um in fact I did a story on the last day of smoking in um in the office.
00:35:48
>> When when was that? Can you remember the year? >> Oh would it have been 199? No, hang on. I was I was working on
00:35:54
homes. >> So was it when I came back from Yeah, it must been I think it was late 90s,
00:36:02
>> right? Wow, that's crazy. >> Early 2000s. Yeah, it was when Helen Clark was health minister.
00:36:06
>> So, it must have been after 1999. >> Um, but yeah, it was um and those days we could just have fun, you know, we
00:36:13
could just do what we liked. So, we went out and you know, we we we went to some
00:36:17
restaurant and and we made out that I was the I was from um the business round table trying to sort of um you know, you
00:36:24
know, now vouchers for children. Let's adopt out the babies from those solo moms and sell them to rich people and
00:36:30
all this sort of stuff. And we're ordering all this food at this restaurant. Now, who's having the
00:36:34
salmon? You know, and we it was just it was just craziness. And we did this thing and the
00:36:41
next day and we just took the piss out of him. And we had myself, my cousin Bernie Atkins, who's gone I'm afraid,
00:36:46
but we were doing this thing where we're throwing out bread, you know, and then they did the cutaway, the reverse, and
00:36:51
there were these pensioners grabbing us, throwing it, you know. This was just the
00:36:56
next day I was having a coffee outside Bowen Street and the Salvation Army guy walks past and goes, "Thank you so much
00:37:02
for what you did last night >> because it was all that sort of every was just so obsessed with the
00:37:09
>> you know it was all sort of the the free market and everything." >> Oh, when Oh, was this pre87?
00:37:15
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The crash of 87. When when did you stop smoking? Were you a
00:37:19
BIG SMOKER? >> YEAH. NOT A big smoker, but a committed smoker. I mean I never used to smoke
00:37:23
before midday but you know >> you have your boundaries >> but yeah you had my boundaries but you
00:37:27
know but I was never when I free reach out for one first thing in the morning but get on the piss. I mean that was
00:37:33
something I remember we'd be we'll be at um >> um Brassie flip and we sending the
00:37:39
waiter or the waitress off down the road to get more [ __ ] you know. Yeah. That's after half them had a joint
00:37:45
down in the car park before it even started, you know. >> Was it was it was it hard quitting? I've
00:37:49
never smoked myself, but uh >> um well, the terrible thing was it wasn't. I mean, you could sort of you
00:37:54
always tell yourself you can do it. Um but it's um and then vaping you replace it with a you know I still vape a bit
00:38:02
now >> and that's almost worse because it's too easy and you can do it anywhere and you
00:38:06
didn't have the you know before you had to go outside and there was punctuation you know especially when Bill Rolston
00:38:11
was was here but everyone was around at the smoking area but you know you go out
00:38:15
you'd have a [ __ ] you'd put it out and you go inside nowadays people go out sit
00:38:20
there and they can just sit there and sit there and sit there and sit there and sit there and it you know that sort
00:38:25
of Um, but it's it is one of the best things you can do. I mean, it still amazes me that people who, you know, are
00:38:32
really intelligent and smart still don't, you know, why do you smoke? You know, it's bad for you.
00:38:39
You know, it's likely to cause cancer, you know, but you still do it. >> Yeah. I suppose it's the same as alcohol
00:38:45
as well. It's like al alcohol causes a lot of cancers, but, you know, we still do it.
00:38:49
>> Yeah. But what it gets me is you'll get some report that says um yeah it's um one glass of wine a day
00:38:57
is good for you. You know another one says yeah and I've always wanted to do this thing where you got all these
00:39:01
things and you did the lot. So I'm going to take one glass of wine for this. I'm
00:39:05
going to do this for this and I'm supposed to take this for this. All these things are told to do. It's like
00:39:08
that guy did that living like Oprah, you know, he tried to see if he could actually follow her advice on every
00:39:14
single thing >> and because it's just it's just absolutely nuts, >> you know. So, um, really early on in
00:39:20
your career at TV and Zed, um, was the Spring Bark Tour in 1981. You you sort of broke the story.
00:39:26
>> Well, that that was this was really weird. So, I started out, okay, TV and Zed um, started there. I started there
00:39:32
in 1981 and our research done. They wanted to do this thing behind the barricades with the box. So, we wanted
00:39:37
when the team came in, we could sort of get, you know, get alongside them as he was used to say and and see it from
00:39:43
their perspective. So I'm ringing this guy and these are the days you had to yes hello operator I'd like to make a
00:39:50
persontoperson transfer charge call to you know um Stalin Bosch South Africa and you'd ring this guy Clen Professor
00:39:59
Clson who was the manager of the team so I'm there going look we'd like to do this and we like to do this and chat
00:40:04
chat and meanwhile the whole debate over the tour was going on. Then they finally
00:40:08
hit their head, yes, we know it's just the agitators and the communists who don't want us to come, you know, all
00:40:13
this sort of stuff. And I thought, do you have any idea what's going on over here? Anyway, Moldun once they had said
00:40:19
to the rugby union, okay, you go back, have one last think about it. Whatever you decide to do, we will support you.
00:40:25
We'll support the rule of law. Anyway, it was like a revolving door. The the old rugby board goes into the room
00:40:30
straight out again. We've had the vote. Um, yeah, it's going ahead. So, I ring this guy once again, da da da, person to
00:40:35
person. and you chat to all the operators along the way, you know, and get hold of this guy and I said, "Oh,
00:40:40
you would have heard the news." "Yeah, what news is that?" I said, "Well, they've confirmed the tour." "Oh,
00:40:44
that's" and I'm thinking, "How weird is this?" You know, there some researcher from a TV show in New Zealand is telling
00:40:51
the manager of the South African team that the the tour is on in the end. So anyway, he did come over and we we we
00:40:57
were trying to get some get some stuff going, but there was a 60 Minutes crew over at the same time, a guy called
00:41:03
George [ __ ] who was quite a sort of famous reporter in his day. >> And they were just a slick actor, old 60
00:41:08
Minutes, you know, they flew everywhere, business class, too, you know, and all this stuff. And they had a full crews
00:41:14
and and we were helping them and I'd give them the briefing and stuff and I watched what they did. They were they
00:41:19
were just absolutely brilliant. I saw this guy during one of the protests and the police guy's got this guy in a
00:41:24
headlock and George is down there with the mic. What's this man being arrested for, officer? You know,
00:41:31
and the other one which was the greatest line I've ever seen because of that pull. They got an interview with their
00:41:36
Tobias. The altbias was a cape colored. He was the first non-white player ready to play for the all black sort of to
00:41:41
come out to New Zealand and they're trumpeting this as the great breakthrough in sort of race relations
00:41:45
in South Africa. So he got this interview with him and so you sealed in their piece. It was like a tight frame
00:41:50
of of this guy and he says at one point George Nene says um Errol there's a sign
00:41:55
outside of the protesters says Errol Tobias Uncle Tom. What do you think that means? Oh no, stop that. And then you
00:42:01
have suddenly hear this voice. Stop that. Stop that. And then the cameraman just pulls out to a wide shot that
00:42:07
behind the stand in Gisbon as they're getting everybody else is getting on the bus. I've got this quick interview and
00:42:12
standing with them. I think it was Bob Stewart or one of the rugby guys. No, you can't be asking that. You cannot.
00:42:17
Yeah, D. We're going to stop this right now. And George [ __ ] turns around to him and says, "This man's a human
00:42:23
being." >> Wow. You know, it was just Anyway, but they scooped them off and put them on
00:42:29
the bus. But I just love the way they operated. They they turn anything into >> But that was a real eye opener that
00:42:34
because we went to the press conference and at the press conference, the deal was rugby writers get first crack. You
00:42:40
know, well, you don't look that strong in the three quarters. uh you know da da da all this sort of stuff and blah blah
00:42:45
blah backwards and forwards backwards and then stopped and then it was like then the tsunami started when you went
00:42:51
to South Africa there was two to Australia last year there WERE THREE PEOPLE DIED JUST YEAH YOU'RE EXPECTING
00:42:58
blood on your hands this thing everyone just climbed in George Nus there was a guy called a Williams who was an
00:43:04
assistant manager who's a cape colored and he said to A Williams Mr. Williams, why are you in New Zealand? You can
00:43:10
travel on the same bus, eat in the same restaurant, stay in the same hotel as the rest of your team, but you can't do
00:43:15
that at home in South Africa. Oh, you know, many things have changed in South Africa. We're moving on. Well, unless
00:43:22
the Group Areas Act 1944 has been repealed overnight. I suggest that's not true. And they just ripped into them.
00:43:28
Ripped into them, you And I thought, "Oh, this is that because all it was international media, everyone was there,
00:43:33
you know, and you know, there was a stain stain on us, I think, that tour." >> What was your stance at the time?
00:43:40
>> I I was Andy, but you had to remain neutral. And we were told if we got involved in any protesting, we'll be
00:43:46
sacked. So when they had to So went to Gisbon, came back, and when they had the test down at Wellington, myself, my mate
00:43:55
Mike Keing and Ramona, we thought, "Bugger, we're going to go down." So we get our helmets on. So we get along get
00:44:01
along. There's this big match being formed. Get along in the middle. Get in there. Yeah, this is perfect. Good. And
00:44:06
we're sitting there. And then this guy comes down, stops just past me here. Line behind us. Everyone turn around. So
00:44:13
everyone turns around here. They march off. We're now at the back. That's all right then. Okay, everyone
00:44:19
turn around. We're now at the front of this thing. I'm just thinking I do not want to be here. Anyway, we marched up
00:44:26
and down. I think we were just a decoy thing but I wanted to make you know but if if if you've been seen or whatever in
00:44:32
theory would we would have been sacked >> but that's always but it's always a thing I mean journalism you you always
00:44:37
had your own personal view on things. The job is being able to keep that separate from what you do
00:44:41
professionally. >> Yeah. >> You know I used to argue with with Junan Garner and Guy Esper about this. They
00:44:46
wouldn't vote. So we're not going to vote in the election that way. No one can accuse us of being biased. Well you
00:44:51
still could be biased. I mean you still have your opinions. Not voting doesn't change it, you know. Doesn't mean you
00:44:57
still don't think those things. You should vote. Everyone should vote in my view.
00:45:01
>> But but it's um it's, you know, it's you've got to be able to separate that out from what you do professionally.
00:45:10
>> Those two names you just mentioned. I've had both those guys on the podcast before me.
00:45:13
>> Yeah. Dun. I know where I stand now. >> Duncan and Guy on. And I've um just recently had Barry Soaper on.
00:45:21
>> So you you left >> I worked for Barry. >> Yeah. You left TV in the late ' 80s to
00:45:24
work with um independent radio. >> Yeah. No one did that. No one left TV was no there was that hierarchy that TV
00:45:30
was that everyone wanted to be on TV no matter what they said. TV was the because you always got you got
00:45:35
preference with everything you know chasing talent whatever TV you know it was a big mind you people didn't want to
00:45:41
talk TV was the last place they're going to go you know there was that >> um TV had was a bigger audience it was
00:45:47
more glamorous. >> Yeah it was it was the glamour with it. >> Why did you leave TV to go to radio?
00:45:50
>> Because I just sort of got bored. I was doing stuff and I thought I was doing it
00:45:53
reasonably well. I just wanted a challenge. Wouldn't mind being over at Parliament and it seemed a good idea and
00:45:58
no one went from TV to radio. So I went over. So I stayed with Barry for a year.
00:46:02
Love Barry. >> You stayed with him like you were flatting together. >> No, no, no, no, no. Stay.
00:46:06
>> You know, I love Barry. Great guy, but he was a prick to work for. No. >> Was this in his bow tie era?
00:46:11
>> Yes, in the bow tie era. He had his scams going. He'd met someone in South America who's trying to import silk ties
00:46:18
and it was just insane. just insane. >> He's he's he's like you, though. He's great great company.
00:46:24
>> Oh, yeah. Great record, >> too. And and look, and he's and a lot of those rough edges have been sort of, you
00:46:30
know, reared off. And Heather just I love the way Heather just deals to come on. There's no fear or favor given
00:46:37
there. >> Yeah. So, you were there for a year, independent radio news, and then um
00:46:41
>> back to TV. >> Back to TV. And is this when the Home Show started? >> Like in ' 89?
00:46:45
>> Yeah. 89 The Home Show started. >> Were you there from the beginning? >> Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:48
>> Oh, [ __ ] Where where were you when the um the infamous opening uh >> I was in I was in Wellington and um and
00:46:55
yeah the phones just went nuts and all this sort of stuff and it was all the how could he be so rude to an overseas
00:47:00
visitor. What? What? Yeah, it was it was it was a really tell was an interesting thing
00:47:07
there because as when it started it really was you got a lot of calls from people. I've got nowhere else to go. And
00:47:14
I remember this woman rang me up one day >> and um she said, "Look, I'm desperate.
00:47:18
I've got nowhere else to go. I don't know if you can help me, >> but I've got a son who's had glue. It
00:47:23
just been terrible. And the terrible thing is, you know, we we're getting this age. We can't afford the medicines
00:47:28
anymore. you know, we don't buy lotto tickets or do anything like that, you know, but the worst thing is and the
00:47:33
smell, I can't even hug my kid. The smell is so bad. And she said, "We finally, you know, we got into, you
00:47:39
know, get it done and they went into hospital and I thought, last, this is going to be great." And after the
00:47:44
procedure, the nurse came out and said, "Look, put these drops into his left ear
00:47:47
every 3 days." Left ear. It's his right ear that's the one that's infected. Oh, I'm sorry. We're going have to put you
00:47:53
back on the end of the waiting list again. So, not only have they cocked it up, did the wrong ear back at the end of
00:47:59
the queue. Um, I rang someone, as you do, I knew who had been at Parliament, who was the comms for, you know,
00:48:06
Wellington District Health Board or whatever it was in those days. And I could just hear this guy, oh my god. You
00:48:12
know, just there was this disaster. Excuse me. Then about 10 minutes, maybe half an hour later,
00:48:21
phone rings. It's this woman again. I can't believe what you've done. and I booked him in for tomorrow, you know,
00:48:26
and we could have I thought, well, we go and pretend we haven't had that conversation and build it up and do the
00:48:31
whole thing, but I just thought great, we've achieved something, you know, she's got that thing that that that she
00:48:36
wanted and we're not going to have to put her through the public thing. And they would have probably kicked my ass
00:48:41
if they knew I could have done something. But that was the power of it back in those days. And it was
00:48:45
fantastic, you know. >> It was just it used then it used to become fair go, >> which everyone I still Hey, hey, fair
00:48:52
go, fair go. I've never worked with Fair. Never worked for Fair in my life. >> Oh, they're just getting you confused
00:48:57
with Kevin Mill being a watchdog on TV. >> Other white bald guys with beards and
00:49:02
mustaches, you know. >> Did you ever um get a bollocking from Paul? >> Uh only when he thought I'd used to go
00:49:09
out with his girlfriend at one stage. He was funny. Paul, you know, he was um he Yeah, he was look, he was a genius.
00:49:18
He was an absolute he was an absolute genius. fatally fought. I I remember once we were we'd been staying at a
00:49:25
hotel in Wellington down for a job. We're in this cafe across from the Continental and it was when the smoking
00:49:31
ban had come in and he just lit up a cigarette in the middle of the restaurant and we're saying Paul you
00:49:35
can't smoke and the guy's running over with an astray you know come on but you know I'm just going to do it. I mean THE
00:49:41
THING WAS CROWDED and that was the thing was like and people sort of quite kind of quite like that. you know, you can do
00:49:47
you're so famous and whatever. You can do whatever you like. You know, it's like Trump, you know, I could shoot
00:49:52
someone and that is an avenue and no one's going to do it. >> Just zero [ __ ] given.
00:49:55
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> What What do you think um as someone that um they had a front row seat, his
00:50:00
greatest strengths and greatest weaknesses were? >> Uh his empathy and his he could relate
00:50:04
to anyone. He could relate to anyone. That was his big thing. Empathy and relatability, you know.
00:50:11
>> Did he give you any advice that stuck with you? >> Um it was funny. I remember I remember
00:50:17
our mutual friend Mariana Hearn, one of the greatest producers in TV, said to me
00:50:22
Paul was always really upset that I never rang him for advice when I when I you know ended up in that in that slot.
00:50:29
>> But it was a weird sort of thing. you sort of I mean I could have done I suppose but you sort of
00:50:34
>> you're trying to make your own way if you know what I mean you know >> but he's um yeah he was he just he just
00:50:41
he just had the touch and people warm to him >> you know and he and he knew the right
00:50:46
thing to do one of my favorite things I ever did was we had a producer in one day Bernie Griffin says oh Bill and
00:50:55
Kenny Ball are coming to town are you know oh yeah look you know Jeffrey Trump Palmer who was prime minister at the
00:51:01
time plays a trumpet. You know, we can get a jam session going. Anyway, anyway, he persisted. Next
00:51:08
thing, the producer rings me from Oakland. Yeah, this is a great idea. We're going to do it. Paul's coming
00:51:12
down. You need to produce and direct it, you know. So, we hide a limo, go out to,
00:51:18
you know, some tatty stretch falcon or something. We go out to the airport and we pick up them up and we take them to
00:51:24
parliament where we arrange to meet Jeffrey. I still can't believe we got this thing done. And there was a tour
00:51:30
party of school girls. We got them just just to mob the car as these guys arrive. Bill and Kenny Bull don't know
00:51:35
what's hitting them. And as they get out of the car, there's a and they look up and they're on the
00:51:41
balcony of the beehive. It's Jeffrey Palmer with a trumpet and we queued them all up. We got a camera up there. Stay
00:51:47
there. I'll come down and get you. So anyway, we go through this thing. They get up there and they start this jam
00:51:53
session and um and uh in the middle of it the phone rings, you know, and Chief go,
00:52:00
"Oh, that was Bob Hawk trying to get hold of me." And Paul says, "I hate you told him to ring back." I did, actually.
00:52:08
And on we went and then we got this thing. I think it's one of the greatest cinematic shots I've ever done. We got
00:52:14
them to do a conga line around the outside of the beehive windows and all black and in silhouette. There's Jeffrey
00:52:19
Palmer, you recognize straight away with the East Island head. You recognize Akil. And then there's this demented
00:52:24
Paul Holmes dancing along behind it. You know, he could pick up, he knew how to pick up and things straight away, you
00:52:30
know. >> But um Palmer's office who who wanted to do this because they wanted to dispel
00:52:35
the myth of boring Jeffrey and no fun Jeffrey. Totally wrong thing they they did because what it did it it just made
00:52:41
him look like everyone else. You know, they like the fact he was boring, didn't do anything, he was Mr. Reliable, Mr.
00:52:47
And after Longie, that's exactly what everyone wanted. And now they they they blame me for his downfall.
00:52:54
>> Um, so, uh, 1991 when you were still on the home show, is that when you connected with Sir Edmund Hillary?
00:53:01
>> Yeah. Yeah. It was it was it was a funny thing. Tom Scott is a good good mate of
00:53:05
mine, cartoonist, writer, playwright, book writer. He said to me he had met Ed going over to Australia for something
00:53:13
being America's Cup or something or other said oh you know he had a great chat with him and you know as he um and
00:53:18
as he always used to say he was on the plane with Ed just strapped himself to the wing and sort of flew over that way
00:53:23
you know sitting out in the elements. So he said oh look I'm going to go to I'm going to go over to research this this
00:53:28
this film or documentary I want to make in Nepal. ad goes over every year and with his suitcase dispensing the rupees
00:53:35
to all his projects literally you should come too you know so I picked this up the TV and say oh look he's getting on
00:53:42
now he's in he's in his 70s you know he's done these amazing things we should go over and do this thing and
00:53:48
anyway they and yeah you know he could drop any minute you know okay yeah they agreed to it and so um we went over most
00:53:55
extraordinary trip of my life if I just on every single level it was just extraordinary cat do we got in It was
00:54:01
just like something out of the Tinton comics, you know, it was just insane. And um and we were staying in this hotel
00:54:08
called the Shangar. And I was convinced that, you know, this is just slavery conditions. That dorman,
00:54:15
I've never come into the hotel or left the hotel without seeing him there. He must work 24 hours a day. It took us
00:54:21
about 3 years of traveling there before I realized he was a twin. Oh, they had two of them.
00:54:30
So we but we got over there we got over to Ed and he had this party of people with him. All right. And they were all
00:54:36
big donors. So what used to happen he'd go over you'd get up into Lla which is that airport you sent which is carved
00:54:42
into it's like a cliff face almost and that would start your way as you work your way towards Everest. And he would
00:54:48
go over there every year and um and he'd take this big suitcase and he go to the
00:54:51
different schools and here's the money you need for the this and here's the money you need for that and da da da da.
00:54:56
So, so we all had to sort of, you know, we had the king's helicopter to fly us in, you know. Um, so and that got
00:55:03
delayed because of weather. Um, so in the meantime, we filmed the the the yogi or the fakia, you know, doing the things
00:55:12
and um and I'll never forget the immortal words of the interpreter are trying to work out what he's saying as
00:55:18
he's gesturing and pointing this big pile of rocks. He say yes. He say he can lift. Yes, he can lift. He say he can
00:55:26
lift with his what? His penis. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We we wouldn't mind having a look at that, you know, and
00:55:36
think, what is going to happen here? Like, is he going to wedge it underneath or something? I mean, what is going on?
00:55:43
So, for the record, he tied his little loin cloth round and made a loop and he squatted down, grabbed the head, then
00:55:50
stood up, and you could hear this thing creek as these rocks are going backwards
00:55:55
and forwards. I sent it back on I sent it back on the satellite to New Zealand when with all
00:56:01
the stuff of Ed nearly dying, but Paul Cutler wasn't wearing it, THEY COULD RUN IT AND THEY HAD THIS LATE NIGHT SHOW,
00:56:08
but it's Yeah, that was so that was just the start. This is just the beginning for this trip. And then you get up and
00:56:13
it's just so amazing. And the and and the people the sherper people because the sherpers are are you know a
00:56:19
particular group of people as opposed as opposed to there's the porter porter was the job
00:56:24
you carry the gear up and sometimes shorters but they are different. They're usually the guides, the climbing guides.
00:56:30
And it was just I mean that whole thing was just one of those magical trips. But
00:56:34
these mad people who came with it. There was there was Zeke who was Ed's ran the
00:56:39
US operation who was a Canadian but a former grid iron player. Um there was this um there was a woman who'd married
00:56:45
successfully about six times and was incredibly rich and she was a big sponsor. Um there was a guy whose father
00:56:54
um had t his father had invented extruded aluminium furniture and tempex u Ted and Ted ran the extruded aluminium
00:57:05
furniture side of things but he was a bit out there on the spectrum would say these days and then there was another
00:57:11
guy who was an independent wealth manager whose main clients were the salt guitar and Ted.
00:57:16
>> Wow. >> So wherever Ted went his wealth manager wasn't far behind. Uh there was another
00:57:20
guy who was an expert on Anne Ran and he's going he kept trying you need to film me and put me on TV here and warn
00:57:27
about the perils of communism because they're about to have their first elections in 40 years. This it was just
00:57:31
insane this whole thing that was going down there and um and then there's a guy called Alex Tilly. Alex Tilly had been a
00:57:38
cler or a clerk a cler in a insurance company in Canada and he invented this thing called the tilly hat which is a
00:57:46
bit like the swand dry here became a Canadian went fishing had a tilly hat made him filthy rich sponsored put a lot
00:57:52
of money into the um into the Himalayan foundation Ed Hillary's one and so he was over on this trip so this was the
00:57:59
payoff he had a whistle that could be heard 16 km away he had a pack that converted into a deck chair. He had a
00:58:08
sleeping bag that became both a survival suit and a raft, you know, he had all these bloody things, you know, and a
00:58:14
17-year-old daughter who was on the trip who that was just insane. We're in the thing at night and she starts talking
00:58:20
about losing her virginity and just going, "Well, your father a your father's here and b we don't really want
00:58:25
to be hearing all this nonsense as well." This thing was just it was insane. And I was going to do a whole
00:58:31
separate piece. I was going to get Tom to do like a verbal pin pen portrait of them all. It was just like this this
00:58:36
ship of fools, you know, and then he'd got altitude sickness. Altitude sickness, you know, the guy literally
00:58:43
you can see just about see Everest and and he's getting altitude sickness. >> The irony
00:58:47
>> and gibberish. So they sent the Canadians all off to continue where they were going to be going and looking at
00:58:52
the various sites and we just thought he was going to be okay. And that's when that night there were there was a clinic
00:58:58
and doctors in this little village which he had set up and they that's why they tested his they put these things in your
00:59:04
finger they tell how much blood you how much oxygen you're absor absorbing and they said it's basically him standing on
00:59:09
Everest. That's that's how that's how much air he's getting or oxygen he's getting. And they had cylinders and the
00:59:15
oxygen cylinders but the respirators that bits didn't fit the tank things. It was like these were French and these
00:59:22
were American. So we went out to the shed and they had all these different step down things for doing the plumbing.
00:59:28
And so we made this sort of tree which could sort of connect it up and we're in this room and Ed's lying there sort of
00:59:34
you know semi conscious and oxygen mask on and it's running out his sdar the guy
00:59:39
organized all his expeditions whose whose village we were at. He had marched off into the night to the Japanese hotel
00:59:48
up the valley where they pumped oxygen into the room so the clients didn't pass out when they landed in on a on a on a
00:59:55
you know on a plane. And um so he disappeared. This is going on. And we were just really worried and and I'm
01:00:02
also thinking I've got a camera and a crew in the next room. This is probably the biggest story you're ever going to
01:00:07
come across. What do you do? You know, well >> we actually we're now in broadness.
01:00:12
We're helping. So, I'm not going to get the camera out to try and get let's get some shots of Ed dying. You know, cross
01:00:17
your Well, you know, I mean, of course, I mean, you thought it through. >> So, anyway, so we're sitting there and
01:00:22
he's um and he's lying there and this is going on and um at one stage though, he
01:00:28
goes, I want to piss, right? I want to piss. I want to piss. Which is a good sign because if you if you're actually,
01:00:37
you know, urinating, it means your system is working. >> Okay. Um, so we sort of set him up and
01:00:43
we're sort of looking around. What is that? There on the shelf, I kid you not, is an empty Edmmond's
01:00:52
shortterrise baking powder tin. And I said to Tom Scott, I'm holding the tin. And so we had to get him up, fish it
01:01:05
out, get it done, you know. And then I said, "Now I reckon we start taking the black mold PICTURES NOW, TOM.
01:01:12
AND AND ED STARTED LAUGHING and again we thought he's going to come right. It's a
01:01:17
really really really good sign. So we got through that night and we came out the next day. It was the weather had
01:01:22
been plagged in. We couldn't get him out and finally there was a break in the weather. The king sent his helicopter
01:01:26
in. The king who then got um wiped out by his son in a cra in a palace massacre. Um he sent the helicopter in
01:01:35
and but we're taking Ed and we still all the all the footage is still there. Tom
01:01:39
and I on one side, me on the other helping Ed. And this old dude, you know, from the village, one of the village
01:01:45
elders came out. He looked about hundred and he came out and he grabbed Ed's hand
01:01:50
and suddenly he was just like Ed was lighter than air. It was just like didn't need us. He just walked him
01:01:53
along. It was just one of the most incredible things I've seen. Anyway, we got him onto the helicopter, got him out
01:01:58
back to Catmand do. Within about sort of 12 hours, he was just back to normal. >> Came right. Was that the beginning of um
01:02:05
It It seemed like an old friendship. >> It was. It was. And and so we did several more trips after that in back
01:02:10
when they used to catch up with him and he they always used to ring, oh, I've had a call from someone wanting to do
01:02:14
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll look after it, Ed. And the cameraman um Allan who's just a lovely, lovely, lovely man,
01:02:20
>> he would get he he he would get calls all the time. He go and film stuff for them because his phone number was in the
01:02:25
phone book, of course. Yeah. This is a great thing. You get these calls from CNN and oh, look, we want to get hold of
01:02:30
our sir admin Hillary. I say, well, you do know. >> Oh, look, I can look after this
01:02:35
difficult difficult task. Yeah. So we and whenever we were in Oakland, we always used to go around and see him and
01:02:40
do things and and hang out. So yeah, so we became we became friends >> and he was just a lovely guy. He's a
01:02:46
fantastic. >> What sort of things did you talk about? >> Anything, >> right? >> Anything. I mean you you'd talk about
01:02:50
current stuff. Um I mean we often would have questions and things would come up and say, "Hey, what about this guy? What
01:02:56
do you reckon?" Um I remember one day when when we're in Nepal and again up at the in the same in Kundi and this guy
01:03:02
called Mark Bashier called in and he was going to climb Everest. People then tried because you can't
01:03:10
Yeah. It's been climbed. Ed did it. Yeah. Ed Ed intensive did it. But so they're going to climb without oxygen or
01:03:16
they're going to climb in one day or they're going to climb da da da or next thing I'm going to walk backwards up the
01:03:22
mountain. You know the first all this stuff. This guy was going to be the first guy to do Everest and Lotsy. So if
01:03:28
you look at Everest, it sets like that and then there's a little there's another mountain next to it to do both
01:03:33
peaks in one day. So to do that, he got to the top just before midnight and then
01:03:40
soon as it was midnight, climb in the dark. Great. Get over and he's going to be that's what he's going to be doing.
01:03:44
So they doing all this sort of mate and he just he would carry nothing. He'd be literally just about being in shorts,
01:03:49
but he'd have some chocolate bars and stuff like that. And uh yeah, and met and through him met lots of um lots of
01:03:56
interesting people. Um Beck Weathers, the guy who um was left for dead on Everest.
01:04:02
>> Wow. >> And survived. Extraordinary story. Read his thing. But yeah. Oh, it was it was
01:04:08
funny. I mean like little bit because you think all of this is this is the go of my bad head. All of this is um he
01:04:15
must have I could just about do you was only a couple more strokes of the old iceax or something like that. So you'd
01:04:20
heard the story been to so many functions he'd always be asked what was it like as if you know he had never
01:04:24
thought about it before. Um but he but then he come out with gems. I remember he told me he had a piss on the top of
01:04:30
the mountain. That was one of the things he did. But no no because his job everyone had jobs in the climbing party.
01:04:35
His was to was to melt the ice to get be able to drink it. He had to melt that was his job. So it melted all these ice
01:04:41
to get so much water. And again, it comes back to that hydration. If you could have a piss on the top, it meant
01:04:46
you were hydrating. And that was a really, really good sign. But he never just about got dumped from it because
01:04:53
originally um before um um they changed it. They changed the lead of the expedition. A guy called Shipton
01:05:03
was going to be doing it, Eric Shipton, and he did the exploratory thing. That's
01:05:05
our Ed Mums. He was over there with some New Zealand climbers doing just other other mountains and they get don't know
01:05:11
how they got a telegram so from Shipton saying hey look two of you can come and join us for this wreck he we're doing
01:05:17
and then they were so impressed by Ed that um he was on the he was going to be on the team um but the the organizers
01:05:23
the Royal Geographical Society you didn't think you know shifted wanted to small team wanted something bigger so
01:05:28
John Hunt was brought in ex Army and he got no no if you're going to be on this trip you must be here for the whole
01:05:34
preparation so Ed you're off the bus and these two guys who were on it who were who who are doing the experimental
01:05:41
oxygen equipment and said, "We've been there. We know what's involved. It's ice climbing. None of us have any any we
01:05:48
don't have any experience in ice climbing. The Kiwis do. If he's not coming, we're not coming." And Hunt had
01:05:54
to change his mind. And I was never aware of that. And um and yeah, so uh and I took Ed and and Hunt um we tried a
01:06:03
chopper and went up to Ting Bosch, which is this Buddhist monastery on the on the
01:06:07
path to Everest, most significant Buddhist monastery in in Nepal. And that was them together. It was probably the
01:06:13
last would been the last time that ever the two of them being able to see Everest and and look back on it, you
01:06:18
know. >> So that's incredible. >> It was extraordinary. I mean, it was the whole thing was extraordinary. the Times
01:06:24
reporter James Morris who was who who you know was there because it was sponsored by the Times and they had the
01:06:31
exclusive but when they got the story back to London um the next morning was the coronation they gave it to all the
01:06:38
media so all the papers came out coronation gift you know um but but James Morris uh extraordinary and I
01:06:45
wanted him to for this doco I did on Ed because but there was just one slight sort of continuity thing you had to deal
01:06:51
with James Morris in the 7s went off to Casablanca and had a sex change and became Jan Morris who was a
01:06:59
celebrated travel essay and and historian read Pax Brtanicus and various books on Madrid and Seville and various
01:07:06
other things. Yeah, but you got a slight you got all this footage you shot film up there for the whole thing and put a
01:07:12
film out. There's the intrepid reporter from the Times and he's wandering along literally in the safari suit and the big
01:07:18
bloody pen the big pith helmet and then you got to go and now we've got this sweet little old lady with pearls and a
01:07:26
perm living in Oxford and had to had to try and find a way of just getting from one to the other
01:07:32
because she was such great talent. >> So um I I never had the privilege of um like meeting Siri and Hillary but he he
01:07:38
seemed to have this sort of manner about him. Did did he have that sort of manner
01:07:41
about him or once you got to know him on a personal level or helped him piss into
01:07:43
a tin did the manner sort of uh >> but he still look he a he was a big unit he was a he had a commanding sort of
01:07:49
presence you know and the thing and he was literally you know until you got to know him he was a man of few words you
01:07:55
know he was what we all would want to be we all want to be Ed Hillary wouldn't we
01:08:00
just do it by action no bloody small talk just get out there and do it you know no fuss no bother and that's what
01:08:06
he was like but he was a very thoughtful guy he had a great sense of humor as well, you know, and he was just he was
01:08:12
sort of good company and to that that was part of the thing that why it worked so well because it was same with Tom.
01:08:18
Tom and became very very good friends. Um we would give them [ __ ] you know, because everyone there's that tennis
01:08:23
even thorns over them. Oh, you know, and we go, "God, Ed, you've climbed this once and you've made a bloody FORTUNE
01:08:31
OUT OF IT. THIS GUY OVER here has done it 12 times. You're a fraud." You know, and he'd love it, you know. He'd really
01:08:36
like that because no one used to, you know, and uh it was just it was just absolutely crazy.
01:08:42
>> Have you met anyone else with the same sort of like mana or presence? You meet
01:08:45
heaps of cool people. >> Yeah. Um no, he was certainly one. Oh, look, I tell you meet, you know, you
01:08:52
meet someone like Willie Epiato and something they've got something to them again, but it's just that quiet they can
01:08:56
see unproposing, but you think >> like like just a stoicism just gets on with it.
01:09:02
>> Yeah. All those SAS guys, you look at them and think I can take you. Actually,
01:09:06
no. I know. No, I couldn't. Even if you had your arms tied behind your back. >> So, yeah, he passed away in 2008 and you
01:09:12
became like the family spokesperson for the >> Oh, I was driving up in my Lincoln
01:09:17
Continental four-door convertible with the roof down with a mate with me who's in a wheelchair, you know, and we're
01:09:24
coming up and we're going to go and have dinner with Ed that night and catch up >> cuz he he was unwell. He was
01:09:30
>> Well, he had been I'd seen him a few weeks earlier and he was in bed and he wasn't great. and Hunter, my son, and
01:09:34
Ramona and I had called in and saw him and he was still very chatty, but he's obviously getting, you know, was getting
01:09:39
there. Um, and so anyway, so we were driving up and I get this phone call finally I've been out of contact. Oh,
01:09:45
we're desperate. Where are you? You know, we need you up here. Head's died. D, can you ring? So I rang the family
01:09:51
and but then they said, "We'll send a chopper. Pick you up." And yeah, I said, "What about the car?" And I said, "Look,
01:09:56
I've got something else in the I'll just keep driving. It's going to be easier."
01:09:59
and I had a um sort of a New Town t-shirt on and a hat and my sunnies and shorts and I pull up in this car to
01:10:06
head's place and then expected to read the family statement as I'm sitting there and anyway that look if it makes
01:10:13
it easier for them. So I basically had to take care of that but then did the the funeral Simon Delow and I did the
01:10:18
you know did did the commentary on it. >> What an honor. >> Yeah, it was an honor. It was an honor.
01:10:23
It was good and also it's because after the things was I could recognize and a lot of the people coming. So there's
01:10:27
this whole different subset of people you know he had people like Murray Jones who's also passed away who wore shorts
01:10:34
20 u you know 247 365 days of the year lived down some of those hardy you know nuggety guys you know
01:10:41
>> do you remember your last conversation with Siri? Well, that was a bit I had stopped him to see him. So, we had quite
01:10:45
a long chat, you know, and Hunter was there as well and talking about different things and Yeah. And he was in
01:10:51
good >> Yeah, it was funny because I can remember them coming to our school as a
01:10:55
kid, you know, he was this he was this guy, you know, that >> he had such a, you know, he had such a
01:11:00
sort of a reputation, but then to suddenly and so I'd really hadn't had anything and we went around and met them
01:11:05
before we went, you know, and we'd all seem to and that was the thing. If you got on and you had to pass June's gaze
01:11:11
as well, June Hillary, his wife, the second wife. Um, you know, if you get and June, a lot of people June for
01:11:18
control. No, June was like the gatekeeper. She had his interests because Ed would sort of get caught up
01:11:22
and be somewhere and supposed to be going to something. Oh, I'm tired. No, June. No, it they would have been
01:11:27
waiting all day. They know you need to just even stop in. So, she was great and she protected him a lot ways.
01:11:33
>> Um, >> oh, yeah. Didn't he lose his first wife and daughter in a plane crash? Oh, that
01:11:36
was tra. Well, that airport I'm telling you about, they were sort of building that which is built on the side of a
01:11:40
cliff. And his wife and daughter, it was the apple of his eye, was supposed to fly in and join them. And the plane,
01:11:48
they had like pins you put in the flaps to stop them when it's parked up, moved up and have ribbons. And someone had
01:11:53
pinched the ribbons. Pilots still should have checked, but he got into the plane,
01:11:57
took off, no flaps, came down, it happened to have hit the ground, explosion all over. And Ed said to me,
01:12:04
he was sitting there not doing this thing and he saw a helicopter coming in. He said, "This is not good." And anyway,
01:12:12
his um his uh Liz Hol was used to write mountain scene and she was the chronicle
01:12:20
used to chronicle all the Everest climbs known since then. She hopped off and he
01:12:24
knew it was then it was something was really bad and he just say, "Look, your wife and daughter been killed. You got
01:12:30
to come back and identify the bodies." Oh my god. >> So he had to get on this plane and fly
01:12:35
back and deal with that. And he went into, as you'd imagine, just an absolute he was depressed for a couple of years,
01:12:42
>> you know, on and he was on anti-depressants. He was, you know, he was just trying to, you know, wipe
01:12:46
everything out. >> And I think June saved him. I mean, June sort of came into his life in June, you
01:12:51
know, doesn't take no for an answer. And she was great in that sense for him. She
01:12:56
sort of got him back on got him back on track. you know, he was sort of, you know, he was sort of quite lost there.
01:13:01
>> Mhm. >> And I mean, what a what a what a thing to happen, you know, and you think and
01:13:05
you then still spend the rest of your life and I said to him once, I said, "Look, do you do all this? Do you"
01:13:10
Because he built bridg things that help them bridges so they could actually get from place to place. Um, clinics, um,
01:13:18
air strips so they could, you know, get stuff out, get in and out, all those sort of things that he he helped with.
01:13:23
Um, and I said to him said, "Yeah, did you do all this because you sort of owed them for getting you up, you know,
01:13:27
getting you up Everest?" He said, "No." He said, "I did it because they're my friends." And there was a famous
01:13:33
conversation where he said to them, I think it was Mingmaring, he said, "Look, what what do you want? What do you want?
01:13:37
What what can I do?" And he said, "Our children have eyes, but they cannot see. We want education." And that's when they
01:13:45
did the first school, which is a corrugated iron hut, prefab hut. And his brother Rex and everyone all came over,
01:13:50
volunteers in New Zealand, and built it. That's how it started school and large different schools more and more and
01:13:55
that's how he did things that they could use but he he he didn't feel ow it wasn't because he owed them it was
01:14:00
because he liked them >> you know they were his friends and they uh barasab the big man and it was just
01:14:05
amazing you'd be walking through these trails up in the Himalaya you no roads or anything like that and there people
01:14:11
had all come out and they put the prayer scarves around him you know the cutters
01:14:15
and at the end of these sort of things sometimes you couldn't see his face there've been so many put around his
01:14:19
neck it's sort of coming up he's sort of trying to see, you know, um and you go to and we went to like Ching Bosch
01:14:26
monastery and had the Renoch there who was a bit like the Dalai Lama. He'd been reincarnated X number of times, you
01:14:31
know, and you go to these things in these like stone huts and you're sitting on these platforms and they bring out
01:14:36
Tibetan tea. Now, Tibetan tea is in these big goblets and on the top is rancid goats milk. Yeah. And the idea
01:14:45
was Ed said, "What you do is you get your thing and you go and you blow the rancid milk away and take a sip. All you
01:14:52
do is take two sips. That's all." Tom Tom meanwhile is sitting next to us. You know, Tom doesn't realize it. And we're
01:14:58
going Tom wants some more. Extra rancid. Thank you. Um and you think this is just I just can't believe
01:15:05
I'm here. Here's this dude. someone reincarnated was sitting here having bloody rants of you know cow's milk or
01:15:12
goat's milk and and uh in this sort of just mythical scene and it was just you know how lucky are we? Oh, and as we
01:15:19
came in, they had the guys with the big sort of orange sort of hats and the big long trumpets, you know, you seen and
01:15:25
the and the big and the red robes and then they come in and because we were there, we're considered part of the
01:15:31
official party. So, we get all the scarves and get all the stuff and treated as, you know, Yes. Well, I
01:15:37
climbed a course in ' 83. >> Yeah. It was just it was just every and that's what they always used to say. It
01:15:43
was just like, you know, being in the in Planet Ed, it was just always an adventure. It was always an adventure.
01:15:50
>> Incredible. Hey, thanks for sharing these. Especially, have you ever told the story before about helping him pee
01:15:54
into a tin? >> Oh, yeah. I have. I have. I It's usually good for um you know, after dinner,
01:16:00
>> after dinner speaking, stuff like that, but it it's But I tell you, without a
01:16:03
word of a lie, so I'm not embellishing it, but I still remember Edmond's shorter eyes. God.
01:16:09
>> Oh, these are great. Um the next card I've got here is closeup. Yeah, our parts cross. I don't know if you
01:16:15
remember this. There was a segment we were doing on the radio called Hug Ginger Day.
01:16:19
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And I end up being on your show came on >> two nights in a row.
01:16:22
>> Yeah. >> Two nights in a row. >> Funny the things that go off. The things that really sort of go off. That was
01:16:27
that was that was that was one of them. >> Yeah. So we were encouraging um Yeah.
01:16:31
people. Yeah. I think you were a ginger at the time actually, weren't you? >> Part Ger.
01:16:36
Yeah. So we were encouraging Yeah. We So like redheads stuff had a rough time like if you know a redhead, give them a
01:16:41
hug. And there was a dad in Christ Church with a redhead son. It ended up being like a big nationwide story.
01:16:46
>> You imagine how more of a big story be these days if they thought it was a fuss
01:16:50
back in that climate, you know. >> Yeah, that was um it was amazing. Like you see, you were on Close Up, this um
01:16:56
700 p.m. TV show for 5 years at a time when um TV was still like the boss. >> Oh yeah, TV TV was and you got it was a
01:17:04
great I mean William Shatner, you know, came on, you know, he was like my old Billy. He was he was just a great great
01:17:10
sort of um Yeah. So you got this sort of and and it was still amazing mix because
01:17:13
you had the light and the and and the um and and and the shade and mind you I keep running into people oh you guys you
01:17:22
did you that house up for my mother when she was sick because we just did so many
01:17:27
>> you just and you're trying to remember each every one but there were things you
01:17:30
were in a position to do actually stuff and to change stuff and you'd always be the first port of call I remember during
01:17:36
the the world rugby world cup this big controversy over the price of the jerseys remember they charging some
01:17:41
ridiculous price for the jerseys. And we'd worked out how it worked was the Hong Kong company got made the jerseys.
01:17:48
They sold them over here at practically full price that the company here would buy them and then put a tiny mark up on
01:17:55
them and sell them um and and um because of higher tax regime here, they only had
01:18:00
a little income and paid a little bit of tax. Whereas they made the bulk of their
01:18:04
money from selling them to themselves from Hong Kong, no very low tax. They made a fortune. And this is that that
01:18:11
that was the so I rang my mate who was an accountant. I said, "How does all this work?" You know, and he was going
01:18:15
through the stuff, went through the book. And then we get this call saying, "Oh, look, they want to come on the um
01:18:20
you know, people doing with the jerseys, they're going to come on the show." Oh,
01:18:22
great. They're going to drop the price. And these guys come on. Unfortunately, one was a South African. I think the
01:18:27
other one was a palm. And I said, "So, you're going to drop the price?" "No." And why are you here? What are you
01:18:34
doing? You know, I JUST FOR THE LIFE OF ME, I still can't keep my head around it, you know.
01:18:40
Oh, >> what was that like for you though cuz you were you were sort of middle-aged I
01:18:43
guess when you got that show and suddenly you become like um like famous like >> Yeah. I mean it's that sort of you you
01:18:49
get um you'd get the well see before people were into politics or whatever you niche things we know I was political
01:18:56
editor for quite a few years and um but with this thing it was like and it's and
01:19:01
and it's you mean you know it's like right you'd be sitting in a restaurant oh that's Tom Harvey you know I thought
01:19:06
he's supposed to be good-looking you know what's wrong godly what's he done you know he is an age well
01:19:11
>> yeah he is an age well you know what's he buying oh he's not having that for his I'll wait till I tell my friends um
01:19:16
you No, that's that was the only thing that it didn't bother me, but I always found I' just come and say something. I
01:19:21
mean, yeah, I've got I had I had no please. Um because my thing was if you put yourself out there on the telly, you
01:19:28
can't go, oh, I want my privacy. >> No, because you're you're getting paid for being popular or noted or whatever.
01:19:35
So, you can't go, oh, no. So, if you go out and people want to talk to you, you just got to you got to take that, you
01:19:41
know. You might say, hey, look, can I just I'll finish my dinner, come over and catch you. You know, that sort of
01:19:45
thing. But it used to be random stuff. I remember I was at LA Zeppelin night with
01:19:49
a bunch of mates were all about to head off to a thing and I noticed there's this woman standing next to me. Hello.
01:19:54
You know, carried on and she's sort of moving along and she had like two friends, a couple standing over there,
01:20:00
you know, and going what are you doing? Oh, I'm coming with you. No, you're not.
01:20:06
>> No, you're not. Jesus. >> See you. Thanks very much. And off we went. I thought this is just so random.
01:20:13
>> Yeah. Imagine that. Yeah. My night >> was the What was TV money like back then? What did you make at your peak?
01:20:19
Can you say or would you >> copy? No, it was probably about close to 400. >> Oh yeah.
01:20:23
>> You know, so was it Remember Judy Batta famously was on 800,000. >> Yeah. That was a big thing.
01:20:28
>> And then and then Susan of course went to the um you know, they tried to cut hers back and she went to the um um
01:20:34
employment court. >> Yeah. >> And they dragged it all through >> and then she that was the whole thing
01:20:38
and then she just walked in one day and quit. >> She sort of I had enough of this.
01:20:43
What? Um, oh, there was one interview you did with Amy Winehouse's dad, Mitchell. Did Did he give you a
01:20:48
bollocking? >> Yeah, he um >> What happened there? >> Oh, because I like Look, we started the
01:20:53
interview and I and he was he was strange and I think he's quite userous of old Amy. But anyway, he was always
01:20:58
interested in promoting himself and I said to him, "Look, as a dad, you know, do you ever feel I wish I could have
01:21:07
done something, you know, because isn't that just natural as A FATHER? OH, YOU GOING TO BE ONE OF THOSE BLAMING ME? IS
01:21:13
THAT AND HE JUST WENT off and just never he just went into this massive rant. Absolute massive rent. And they're
01:21:18
going, "No, I'm not. I'm just saying, isn't it natural as a father? If something happened to my daughter, I
01:21:23
think, [ __ ] was there something I could have done to have stopped that?" That's
01:21:26
the first thing in the first thing would come into your head. But this guy, he just took exception to the thing and
01:21:31
just went nuts, >> you know. >> Did that make it to? >> I don't think it did. I think I think it
01:21:36
should have gone to air, quite frankly. >> Yeah. In the spirit of like we we talked
01:21:39
about homes before with the Dennis Connor interview something like that that's polarizing.
01:21:43
>> Yeah. Anyway Anyway, >> what makes a good interviewer? >> I think letting people letting people
01:21:51
speak. I think it it's it's about it's about that sounds sort of pretty basic and simple but it doesn't always work. I
01:21:58
get I get sick of there's a couple of things that really annoy me and I've been guilty of it myself. One is super
01:22:03
long questions, you know. Now Dom, you've been doing this podcast for several years now. when you started of
01:22:08
course you had left your um partner JJ and that must have been quite traumatic for you but then when you came here
01:22:14
you're in an electric car I just wonder whether you see the future of that to be
01:22:17
you know and I've asked about 10 questions you know and the person's like that or sort of the jumping
01:22:23
>> you do what was the question >> yeah that's right and I see that so often the idea is to keep and I tell you
01:22:28
who was good good at it Mike Hosking to his credit and and he and Heather are quite good just keep it keep it short
01:22:34
and snappy let the idea is to hear the other person. A lot of the tendency now is to prove how clever you are. I've got
01:22:40
the zinger question which going to make me seem fantastic. But because you're trying to get that in, you've missed
01:22:45
what the person just said. Well, you know, I've only been a pedophile for a couple of years, you know, right now
01:22:50
your alcohol problem. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's that sort of thing. So, I
01:22:55
I think you've got to It sounds basic, but people just don't do it. You got to listen. Are are you able to um consume
01:23:02
media without a critical sort of lens or are you just sort of thinking like what
01:23:06
I would do differently or >> what? You still do that. You still look at think how the hell or why the hell
01:23:10
did they and then you can see exactly what people are doing. Oh, I probably would have, you know, might have gone
01:23:14
that way as well, you know, >> and and and things like obvious leads. It's like when you know people can, oh,
01:23:20
why did they ask them that? That's terrible. And sometimes, well, it's an obvious question that needs to be asked
01:23:23
and you get that out of get that out of the way. >> What what what do you do? Yeah. like how
01:23:28
do you how do you ask someone a question um and you want a truthful answer and you know they're not giving a truthful
01:23:33
answer. What's the key to getting the truth out of someone that doesn't necessarily want to give the truth?
01:23:37
>> Well, you keep I mean usual thing is you just ask the same question over and over
01:23:40
again in in in in different ways. >> Jack Tame 101. >> Yeah. And and and or it used to be look
01:23:46
some people have said that you're an absolute prick, Dom, now you know what you think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You do.
01:23:51
It's not you. You can just you can get away with anything just by saying it's been said, you know. Um it's I don't
01:23:59
know whether you ever seen a show called um um Front Line. >> Oh yeah, the Australian one.
01:24:03
>> Australian one which was just an magic show. What they did was on that the ABC
01:24:08
they got a couple of their researchers and got them to apply for and got jobs over at Channel 9 as interns, unpaid
01:24:14
interns and they just took notes of everything. Everything you saw on that show happened. Everything on that that
01:24:20
show basically was true, you know. Um and there were things you done. It's like you try and hide the talent from
01:24:25
the opposition or you know the rescued yachtsman who the navy picked up and rise back to this big welcome and just
01:24:32
as they're about to wheel him out the cameraman pushing him out on the ground bank he plots a channel 9 hat on his
01:24:37
head you know so all the other media [ __ ] you know uh but it's it's it's it's all of that and that was always you know
01:24:46
I remember Bruno Lawrence teaching Mike about interviewing no how you do it is you know it's been said so you don't you
01:24:53
don't have You don't have to actually sort of um uh slander someone. You just do it in do it that way.
01:24:59
>> So yeah, half an hour of live TV every night for 5 years. >> Yeah. >> What what were you like after like what
01:25:06
was the difference between a great show and a bad show? And did you beat yourself up after a bad show or did you
01:25:10
manage to sort of park it and get on with it? >> You sort of had I mean you beat yourself
01:25:13
up a bit but you do have to you just got to come back the next day and and and whatever you know
01:25:18
>> you sort of um you know it's it's Yeah. Yeah. You look at because you've got to
01:25:25
look at I never watch the shows. I I very rarely watch myself in TV. Don't know why I just didn't didn't you know I
01:25:30
know a lot of people pour over things and oh I can do this better and it's probably quite a good thing to do to
01:25:34
improve it. I sort of strangely, you know, just didn't, you know, >> and then um so you're doing that for
01:25:41
five years, then it was um it was cut and replaced with uh >> Seven Sharp. >> Seven Sharp. Yeah.
01:25:47
>> And that was the Jesse Mulligan. >> That's right. Jesse Mullik, Greg Boyd. >> Greg Boyd.
01:25:52
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like based on the Australian show, The Project, which
01:25:56
eventually came to TV3. Um >> Yeah. What was it like being being publicly dumped?
01:26:02
>> Yeah. Well, you know, >> is that humiliating? Well, yeah, it has to be, you know, I mean, because they
01:26:07
were going, "How how do you want us to how do you want us to say, you know, you want to move on to other projects or
01:26:11
something like that?" I said, "Stuff that. Everyone's going to, you know, I'm not going to hide behind that. You want
01:26:17
change. That's your prerogative. >> Okay, that's the way it's going to play. You know,
01:26:21
>> you know, it's not, no one's going to believe I want to spend more time with the family or this, you know, some
01:26:25
[ __ ] thing like that." M so I was rather upfront and and I think as I said at the time at that time people all
01:26:30
around the country were losing their jobs who had no chance of getting something else. You know if you're a
01:26:35
minor on the down the South Island or a paper mill worker your chances of getting something. So you know and I'm
01:26:41
get and I'll get a payout and I'll be quite comfortable. Thanks very much. So don't feel sorry for me and I've had a
01:26:46
fantastic time. Am I pissed off? Yeah, of course. But it goes with the territory. You knew when you got the
01:26:50
job. See this was the thing. When you got that job there was nowhere else to go. You were at the top of the tree.
01:26:56
there was nowhere else you know anything else is going to be a drop down whatever
01:26:59
whatever but there was no logical place to go after that so and you knew you and
01:27:04
new CEO came in wanted to make their mark I mean they cocked it up with the original seven sharp it just so they in
01:27:09
effect went back to the same format but the two people >> you know it's it's an interesting um
01:27:15
position to be in like I've had a couple of coaches on the podcast like John Hart
01:27:18
and Tony Kemp and it's um like a lot of people lose their jobs redundancies are a very common thing but for it to happen
01:27:24
in the um the public arena you know, like TV3 TV3 had a film crew outside. Karen Rutherford was out there. I went
01:27:30
out and talked to them, >> you know, cuz what's the point, you know, it's going to, you know, it's
01:27:34
there. There's no point just trying to hide around it. >> So, just front up and um Yeah, and you
01:27:40
know, and you could have been all sort of bitter and twisted and whatever, but look, end of the day, they run the
01:27:44
channel. They want to do something. >> Yeah. >> You know, I think it's a mistake, but
01:27:48
you know, and we were rating our socks off and all that stuff, but >> yeah, there was nothing wrong with the
01:27:52
product. It was going perfectly well. We were you when the new show started um it
01:27:56
was panned in the beginning. Yeah. Um did you get a sense of glee about >> Oh no. Yeah. Of course. Of course you
01:28:02
did. You know not and not and it was sorry because I mean Greg Boyd I loved I thought he's a great guy. Rest in peace.
01:28:08
Rest in peace you know. And I wonder how much part of that you know was he apparently wasn't treated very well on
01:28:13
that show. >> Um but yeah. Yeah. >> But so you're 56 at the time when that happens. Yeah. How do you bounce back
01:28:20
from that sort of adversity? must have been scary because you I'm at that sort of age now like I'm 53 and you you know
01:28:25
the options sort of get less and you get to thin end of the >> thinking of an exit plan.
01:28:31
>> Um yeah well it's when you anyway you sort of thought but at the time you sort
01:28:35
of finished you got paid out you know not sort of you know you got what you entitled to and no more you
01:28:40
>> half a million the internet well only because that all included all your super
01:28:44
and all the stuff in your what's name scheme. So that stuffed all that up as well. So you you'd had the super thing
01:28:49
going and then that gets cashed up and then that disappears into the house renos and you know you're back to back
01:28:54
to the start again. >> Yeah. Oh, so is that accurate? Like a half a million payout at the time
01:28:58
>> if if if you include all my super you know and no because what it was you got
01:29:02
it was a standard thing you got was it was a maximum of 22 weeks under the redundancy agreement. So it wasn't like
01:29:08
you got the big, you know, give me give me >> John Hogsby $6 million payout cheapest,
01:29:13
you know, that was the contract, you know, that's why contracts since were could never allow that in theory never
01:29:18
allow that to happen again. >> But yeah, it was um so I went on a trip went overseas and caught up a whole lot
01:29:23
of mates and people I've been in London with and had an absolute ball and came back and then ended up sort of doing
01:29:28
some stuff for Radio Live on the um Sunday. Did a Sunday show for them which was fun and radio. Oh god, this is
01:29:34
great. and then um ended up with doing um 9 to 12 on radio live. >> That's right. You replaced Sean Plunker.
01:29:41
>> Yeah. In fact, Sean rang me and said, "Oh, I've just been sacked. Apply for the job." You know, so um anyway, uh and
01:29:48
that um I really enjoyed that. Mary Putnham was my viewer. Just magic woman. >> And um and you know, every day be
01:29:55
something different and and just add immediiacy and and then when there's no calls on the line and you got to keep
01:30:00
patting away. >> But yeah, radio was was was was great. But again, you know, you it's a perilous
01:30:07
occupation. >> Yes. So, what have you been doing since then? Since radio life. Just bits and
01:30:12
bobs. >> Yeah. Bits and bobs. I did some work for the um licensed immigration advisers. I
01:30:17
was doing podcasts and zoom webinars um for them um which didn't involve much, but it was just can I do their
01:30:24
conference, but a lot of conferences and after dinner speaking. Where does after dinner speech
01:30:31
going down to Christ Church? I think it was something. It was a fundraiser for one of the racing clubs, whatever. And
01:30:37
um this is back in the uh 2020s, I think. Um yeah, it was still still Justinda. And I did it on prime
01:30:48
ministers I've known. This is where Barry got his idea from, of course. And anyway, so I went through the different
01:30:52
ones and you know, pluses and minuses and Jeffrey Palmer and I used a bit of Kai said he wanted he wanted a um audio
01:30:58
visual presentations. I had a bit of clips clips of that and like the Jeffrey Palmer stuff. And I got to um Justindra
01:31:04
Ad. I said, "Well, look, you know, she's got a lot of faults, Justinda Ad." But I
01:31:08
also think a lot of the criticism is just sexism and misogyny. You >> know, you can get a ripple rumor went
01:31:14
through the room. Anyway, it carried on. After it finished, I was standing out in
01:31:19
the foyer >> and out comes this little old lady. She must be in her 80s. She looked like
01:31:23
everyone's sweet little grandmother, you know, blue rinse, twin set, pearls, the
01:31:28
whole thing. They're just center. She's just ruining the country. I said, "Really?" I said,
01:31:35
"How's that? No one wants to come here. No one wants to go here. She's just a cunt."
01:31:43
AND I, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST I'm from I'm just stunned for a second. Did I hear Did I hear that word come out of the
01:31:52
sweet little old lady's mouth? And at that very moment, her feet went out from underneath her and she fell flat on her
01:31:59
ass through the door. Dad had gone to get the car with the blue blazer and the gold club tie. Here's mom. It was just
01:32:07
one of the most extraordinary. >> And I thought and but I thought, what does it come to that our 80 plus year
01:32:14
old grandmothers are calling the prime minister a [ __ ] >> you know? I MEAN I COULD EXPECT THAT you know in
01:32:23
Hawks Bay somewhere maybe or you know whatever I mean there was a >> there is a really
01:32:31
visible hatred you had quite a lot to do with the leaders over you did those leaders debates eh
01:32:35
>> yeah yeah yeah yeah >> who yeah what what is your perspective on the various leaders that you had
01:32:39
relationships with >> um John I mean I I agree a bit think with Barry I think Ken Clark probably
01:32:44
was the best performing prime minister you know >> was she intimidating when you had her on
01:32:48
the Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, you had you knew you got to be careful, you know. Um, but she's
01:32:54
uh she's and and and but because she'd survived so much and they nearly rolled her, she had to sort of hang in there
01:33:00
and all that stuff, she'd sort of got through fort and stay that job and and and and very very and and and she would
01:33:07
briefed up the she would know all the stuff, you know, you ask her something, bang, she'd just come back with it
01:33:11
straight away. Um John Key just so people the personable John Key everyone liked him you know and I remember in one
01:33:18
of the debates so here's this guy who's a multi multi-millionaire you know money
01:33:22
market guy data stuff and I remember one of the debates I said to John Keith do you know what it means to be poor you
01:33:30
know Gary and he said when you're sitting around the table on a Friday night adding up the bills and they're
01:33:38
more than what's coming in >> that's when Yeah, it's when you're poor and it just resonated with so many
01:33:44
people even though this guy would never be sitting around on a Friday night whatever but he knew exactly that that
01:33:49
sort of get to the end of the week and [ __ ] we've got no money sort of thing all that that so many people and so
01:33:54
people really sort of related to him >> and um and Clark got one of the debates you know Clark and I remember saying at
01:34:01
the end I hope we think this is a great oh yes no we must have more of these this is this is great and then she came
01:34:06
outside and the media basically said that that that Clark that um John Key had won the debate
01:34:11
Oh, it's Mark Sainsbury's fault. And she suddenly launches into me. I HAVE TO SAY
01:34:17
NOT FIVE minutes previously how well this had gone and how good it had been. It was all my fault that I didn't
01:34:23
control it properly. >> Dear dear dear. >> Oh my god. >> But I quite understand, you know, that
01:34:29
she took the the political way. Yeah. That's you got to try and knock this back. So you find something else.
01:34:34
>> Um what are your thoughts on the current state of um New Zealand media? Oh well,
01:34:38
it's just it's just sort of shrinking and it's what really does worry me a lot is this whole the deep fake stuff. You
01:34:46
know, what can you actually trust anymore? >> So that's the thing. I mean, what can
01:34:52
>> the best way I think of somehow saving the media is is got is is somehow being
01:34:57
able to have a an integrity that cannot be challenged. You know, because you look at something I mean we could make
01:35:03
videos. I can make you know you know there's that technology now you could do this and suddenly add on to the end
01:35:08
someone who looks and sounds exactly like me saying you know I hate sort of whatever and I you know whatever
01:35:13
whatever >> that's wild >> and and you just go everything you look at you got to think is that real or not
01:35:19
you know so and it's you know that I used to think the the main advantage of you know things like especially with
01:35:26
digital news and stuff was curation you know it's sort of it it saves you you know if you're time poor having to go
01:35:31
through everything it's and a curation that you sort of trust. But trust is going to be the big thing.
01:35:37
>> And do you still do you still trust the media? >> Yes. I mean some of well traditional
01:35:43
media you still but you still see mistakes and you still see and there's alignments and
01:35:47
>> and different things. I mean like I listen to I switch around a bit but like ZB is is like a is like a third arm of
01:35:55
the National Party. They just constantly oh Labour's not fit to govern and you know this and that and they're putting
01:36:00
the boot in. Well, maybe it's quite right and they and and they would see themselves as a center right, you know,
01:36:05
sort of thing, but it sort of goes against the grain a little bit. You sort of feel a little bit uncomfortable with
01:36:09
that with that because it always brought up to try and be neutral. It was always
01:36:12
no one should ever know your politics, you know, that was always the thing. Well, it's like you talked before about
01:36:17
um Ghana and not wanting to vote at all >> because that doesn't change they they in
01:36:22
their minds they have their own feelings one way or another, >> but they're but it's being able to sort
01:36:27
of transcend transcend that and and do it without appearing to be biased. >> Um what do you think social media has
01:36:34
done to the public conversation in New Zealand? >> Look, it's I just don't I mean it's
01:36:39
almost like it's it's it's the the genies out of the bottle, isn't it? you sort of it it's sort of and and and just
01:36:45
on screen time. Mind you, I keep thinking back when I was growing up was TV. We just spend all our time sitting
01:36:50
in front of the TV. It was going to make us blind and which science later proved
01:36:54
it didn't. But um uh you know, but now it's just everyone's on their phones >> and and and the thing that really annoys
01:37:00
me is like I could be say out there in the green room and I would talk to something. I'll send you a text. I won't
01:37:05
actually come and speak. So, we've lost that that that lot of that sort of that one-on-one. We're so reliant on that.
01:37:12
People just sit there constantly on their phones. >> Um, you know, mind you, you screen time
01:37:17
gets addictive. I play internet cards a lot and I find myself getting obsessive with it. You can see how you can just
01:37:22
So, I'll be telling Hunter, "God, you're on the bloody computer all the time doing your gaming and I'm think, oh,
01:37:27
I've just spent an hour doing >> Well, there's always there there's there's no reason to ever be bored
01:37:33
anymore." >> No, but everyone I my nephew was around. and he said, "Look, I've got to stop it
01:37:37
cuz I'm just sitting there doom scrolling, just sitting there and suddenly, you know, all this time's gone
01:37:40
past." >> So, people are sort of getting conscious of it. Um, but yeah, it's it's it's like
01:37:47
ringing. See, that's so that's so dead, isn't it? You know, like I like So, I'm going to ring because I know the person
01:37:52
will answer the phone and I'll get an answer straight away instead of texting. Oh, can you do Oh, yeah. What time?
01:37:57
Well, maybe this data. One phone call says, "Want to make for lunch? When?" Good. See you.
01:38:02
You can sort so much out so much quicker just with by jumping on the phone. Eh, >> yeah. But it's seen as Oh, it's so very
01:38:08
old. >> Even um yeah, I find myself feeling older like someone will message me saying, "Oh, are you free for a phone
01:38:14
call?" And it's like just [ __ ] call. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> If I'm not free, I won't answer
01:38:18
>> on that. I mean, the whole woke thing too, you know, it's sort of look in some
01:38:24
ways, you know, respect and there was things like that and kindness and all those things. Yeah. Yeah. there was
01:38:28
their place. But it's sort of like people are terrified of doing anything. They're terrified of upsetting people
01:38:33
and all this sort of thing. It just, you know, >> and and then that that that then enables
01:38:39
>> the extremists on the other side to go look at this. This is terrible. And they
01:38:42
can sort of push back the other way. >> But it is like you mean you know people won't go out of their you know it's like
01:38:48
people won't leave the office. I mean it used to be get out there and go and talk
01:38:51
to people. No. Okay. Now you can converse by, >> you know, by by texting and different
01:38:55
stuff, but also there's a lot of stuff you wouldn't necessarily want a record of,
01:38:59
>> you know, you know, way things get, you know, we're now going to The thing that
01:39:03
I never could work out was Nixon, you know, when he had the whole his fall jab being t was because he chose to tape all
01:39:10
the stuff in the in the Oval Office. Why didn't he wish wipe the tapes before they was subpoenaed?
01:39:16
>> In fact, he says he admits later he should have done that. I couldn't understand that. Why didn't he just wipe
01:39:21
them? Yeah, >> because he wanted it as a for history >> and in many ways Nixon was a fantastic
01:39:27
president in terms of foreign policy. But >> well, what advice would you give to a
01:39:32
young journalist coming through now? If someone came to you and said they're thinking about becoming a journalist,
01:39:36
>> would you talk talk them out of it or would you is there a future in that industry?
01:39:40
>> I'd have a you know have a have a have a have a have a trade on the side maybe. I
01:39:44
look I know they've been churning all these people out of the schools. Where are they going to go to? Where are they
01:39:47
going to get work? um what is this all going to mean? Um see I still I mean you know I like the
01:39:54
New York Times you know but I like to look at sort of some of the you know more you know look at the conservative
01:39:59
you know the Telegraph and Fox and you got to sort of try and keep across everything not as much as I certainly
01:40:05
not as much as I I used to. >> Yeah. >> Um but it's it's all perspective isn't it? Because you and I could both be
01:40:11
looking at different things and have a totally different have got a totally different perspective. You know, it's
01:40:16
like we can't understand why do all these people vote for Trump. Well, you're not seeing it as they're seeing
01:40:20
it. You know, they're seeing it as the evil, you know, legacy media are sort of telling all these lies and things like
01:40:27
that's the that's the image they're getting. And and that's the that's the view >> and that's the whole thing. And but
01:40:33
we're all looking at things looking at, you know, I see a giraffe, you see a monkey, you know.
01:40:37
>> Yeah. >> But the ability to critical think critically has sort of gone, I think, in
01:40:42
a way, hasn't it? Yeah, >> there's a lot of people if you've got like a different um stance, especially
01:40:47
politically, it's like they just won't want to associate with you at all. >> Well, see, then there's the whole AI
01:40:52
thing, you know, it's that will that stop you thinking all together. You instead of forming your own opinions and
01:40:57
looking at stuff, you almost presented as something as this is it, you know, >> and that's a bit of a worry. It's that
01:41:02
yeah, I mean forming opinions is the is is is the key to it. You used to do that
01:41:07
after exposure to different things and listening to different sides and sometimes your opinions you like. I
01:41:12
think your views also sometimes change things you had when you're in your 20ies. You look at it in your 50s from a
01:41:18
totally different viewpoint. >> Oh, they do. Yeah. You you ch you're changing and evolving as a human being
01:41:22
all the time. I think that's a wonderful thing. >> Yeah. >> This has been a great chat. This has
01:41:27
been really cool. >> Um Yeah. How's it for you? You enjoy reflecting? >> Yeah, it is. I mean, it's good. And as I
01:41:33
say, it's a good format. Yeah. What's um what what's a question that I haven't asked you that I perhaps should have?
01:41:39
>> Um >> is it true you're the greatest lover in history? >> Well, I know the answer to that one.
01:41:47
>> Your wife told me last weekend. >> Yeah, that's right. That's right. >> You fell into that one. Say
01:41:51
>> uh yeah. NO, IT'S IT'S funny because when as I said when I was a practicing journalist of because they put it like
01:41:57
that you are always conscious that you know you didn't want to but you tried to to keep your independence you didn't
01:42:04
want to sort of leave a crack open for different things it really nowadays it just doesn't matter anymore.
01:42:10
>> Has has your definition of success changed with age? What does success meant to you now
01:42:15
compared to say when you're 50 or 30? >> Yeah. Well, yeah. It's funny because, you know, on one hand, I had incredible,
01:42:21
I'm not being bigheaded, but just being realistic, you know, in terms of where you got to incredible
01:42:26
success in the media. >> Now, it's sort of, you know, it's it's it's more sort of success and feeling
01:42:31
good about what you're doing. So, I get a bit of a buzz out of doing the Men's Health Week thing. You know, you're
01:42:35
giving something, you're giving something back, but no, but but genuinely, you can actually make a
01:42:41
difference. Only maybe a little one, but you can still make a difference, and that's important. Oh, so just pumping up
01:42:45
your tires, but you give back in other ways as well. Like I don't know if you still do this, but for a time you were
01:42:49
volunteering with the SPC. >> I still go still do that. Yeah. And um got another dog picked up. We try and
01:42:56
foster out the dogs over Christmas. So I go and I do a shift 8. It used to be 8 to 12, 8 to 11. And you're basically
01:43:02
shoveling [ __ ] out of the kennels and cleaning them out and bring feeding the dogs. And there's nothing more grounding
01:43:07
than shove on a cold Wellington morning shoving bloody shocking dog [ __ ] out of
01:43:12
a kennel to brings you down to earth. Um, so that's that is actually quite good and and dogs are fantastic things.
01:43:18
But we they said I'd already had one dog from there and they said queen just foster a dog over Christmas and brought
01:43:23
this thing home. Beautiful dog. It was part whip it. Forgot the fact it could jump over the 6 and 1/2 m fence. But
01:43:30
anyway, bring it home and we had to bring my dog in first to make sure they got on. All right. I got a quite a
01:43:35
reactionary dog. And uh we bought this thing apple. Well, the first thing I did was eat the Christmas cake that belonged
01:43:42
my only thing my wife wanted was this Christmas cake from the Clear Bakery. Got it out of cardboard box out of the
01:43:47
welded plastic sort of heavy plastic bag. Ate it and then shat over the new duvet upstairs. And then after I' my
01:43:55
favorite meat is a ribeye on the bone. You know, I got this great big ribeye, you know, second mortgage. And that was
01:44:02
for Christmas. We had a few waves and strays here and we only got through a couple of bones in the dog up onto the
01:44:08
island. Chewed over the whole thing. You couldn't even go, "Oh, no one's looking.
01:44:12
I'll just cut off the bit that it ate. We're never going to know." No. Whole thing. Chewed it over. So, we adopted
01:44:16
it. >> As you do. Oh, yeah. You um I read an article about you yesterday. So, around
01:44:22
about the same time as you lost the seven sharp job. Um you you lost a pet as well.
01:44:26
>> Oh, that was Yeah. Yeah. >> What's your pet grief? This is something I'm I'm dreading. Uh my little doggy.
01:44:32
>> Yeah. somewhere in the studio with us today. He's 12 now and I'm every day I think about the the day that he's going
01:44:37
to die. >> Yeah. Well, I I'd sworn I wouldn't get another dog. We had a dog Labrador um or
01:44:41
golden retriever called Robbie who was a lovely dog. He died. I thought I'm just
01:44:45
not going to get another dog. >> It's too painful. And then but we got this one um from the um you know when I
01:44:52
was volunteering there called Robbie who was part Vizler and loved coming in the
01:44:57
car would sit in the car >> wouldn't get out but would but had this thing where he would roll up his lips
01:45:02
and bear his teeth and people like Claire Dor came around one day and through the hole in the gate comes the
01:45:09
thing and the teeth rolling up. Can you come? So anyway I I and but they were mimicking smiling. It wouldn't it was
01:45:16
not to bite people. They they he thinks this is the way of of things. It was such a fantastic dog. Went with me
01:45:22
everywhere. But I had an undetected heart defect and just dropped. Oh god, we were just heartbroken.
01:45:28
>> Heartbroken. They just losing a dog's like losing a kid, you know. >> Um and it was it was I just they were
01:45:36
not getting a not getting another one. And then um Hunter Arabella came back with Penny from the SPCA one day. So
01:45:42
sometime later. Yeah. Dogs and those fantastic things. They're just so unconditional love, you know.
01:45:48
>> Yeah. They never hold a grudge. >> No. >> I like when I was working in radio, I
01:45:53
think um like pet grief is not something I would have understood. Like if someone
01:45:56
I worked with needed bereavement leave for a pet, I I'd be like, "What the [ __ ]
01:46:00
are you on about?" But I fully get it now. >> Take the week off. >> Yeah. Yeah. I get it. It's unbelievable.
01:46:06
Um have your kids your your twins got kids? Are you a grand or >> No. No. No. no progress on that front.
01:46:13
>> Um, Arabella works in the movie industry up here. Um, she's just I mean, she's so
01:46:19
funny and so smart. I remember once I got a birthday card from her. I might have turned 40 or something like that.
01:46:26
Um, dear Mark Zo, I've always called him Mark and Yeah. Yeah. Always. >> Why? >> Just was that parent lead?
01:46:33
>> Yeah, I think so. Whatever. He just always did. Dear Mark, um I hope you're not uh too depressed having turned 40
01:46:40
and still not having learned a foreign language or how to play a musical instrument.
01:46:48
>> How old was she at the time? >> About 13 or something. >> She was quite exact. Where did you get that? Oh, hang
01:46:55
on a minute. You know, that's the funny thing with kids, isn't it? When you think, where did you get that? Oh, I
01:47:00
know exactly where you got that from. >> Yeah, it's kind of a reflection, isn't it? It's a mirror.
01:47:04
>> Yeah. as Hunter is just he's he's fantastic. He's got a he's different and he's back living he's living at home. I
01:47:10
love having him at home. >> How old is he now? >> 38. >> 37. Yeah. >> 38 this year.
01:47:16
>> Oh, that's cool. You got a good relationship with them? >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's funny. It's sort
01:47:19
of a you know, it's uh they're your kids, whatever. But it's sort of um um yeah, it's a it's it's funny with 100%.
01:47:31
You can still fall into I'm your dad, but you're 37 years old. You know, why am I talking to you like, you know,
01:47:36
Hunter, you haven't done the dishwasher. You know, it's because you just fall into those things. That's what you got
01:47:41
to watch the most. >> What do you think your best and worst habits are? >> Procrastination would be my worst habit.
01:47:48
That's something I I we were talking before about sort of, you know, I I just get either sing and not like people like
01:47:56
Richard O'Brien's one of my great mates. I love Richard. But I just didn't ring him for months.
01:48:02
>> The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Yeah, I met him in London. He's amazing, man. >> How old is he now?
01:48:06
>> 83. >> He'd be a great podcast guest. Is he is he okay? >> Yeah, he's fantastic. He's fantastic.
01:48:14
And he's got and he's he's rack on tour. You could just sit and listen to Richard
01:48:18
for hours. >> Oh, I might have to get you to tease something up there. >> Yeah. Yeah, that'll be a finders for
01:48:22
you, of course. But, you know, I I finding I was doing this thing and not engaging with friends and whatever,
01:48:27
whatever. And I thought, [ __ ] I run men's health week. I tell other guys, if this happens, you got to go and see. So
01:48:33
I did. I went and saw my doctor. I said, look, I'm doing this. I'm not feeling great. You know, I'm feeling a bit off.
01:48:37
I've got no interest in doing these things. He said, look, you know, he said, um, you're depressed. He said,
01:48:44
I've had it. He said, anti-depressants is is what you I don't think any counseling. I think what you need is
01:48:48
this. So we've tried some I was hoping they're going to be, you know, something pretty cool, but no,
01:48:54
>> you don't notice it. >> Oh, slow release thing. >> Yeah. I don't know what it is, but but I
01:48:59
still on them now. >> I but I I've only just noticed it. No, I'm not really not. You don't get any
01:49:04
kind of be a donkey. You don't get the [ __ ] you know, [ __ ] what's happened. I'm, you know, my life's out of control.
01:49:09
You don't get any of those things anymore. But you don't want to be sort of neutralized or, you know,
01:49:14
>> does it just sort of dull the edges so you don't get too I honestly don't really know, but I just then think back
01:49:19
on, well, I actually haven't had so much of this. But the fact you just got to front up with it and deal with it
01:49:24
because you can't tell other guys to do it and then not do it yourself which is crazy.
01:49:27
>> So are you okay like have you are you okay with vulnerability? Like have you got some friends that you can talk to?
01:49:32
>> Oh yeah know I've got a couple of got couple of really sort of close friends.
01:49:36
>> Um but yeah but you do I can see how this happens where you can go through days without talking to someone
01:49:41
cheapest. This is not good. So that's why I've decided yeah I've got to deal with this front up to it and I've got a
01:49:46
fantastic doctor in in Wellington I've used for some of the podcasts. Um, Nick Oscroft and uh, yeah, that's the other
01:49:54
thing. We talked before about guys not, you know, finding a doctor or can't afford a doctor or can't access a
01:49:59
doctor. Get a doctor who you actually click with and he understands you. That is the
01:50:04
secret. >> That's the secret. >> Do you do you do you um lie to him about your alcohol consumption?
01:50:09
>> No. No. Nor anything else, you know. >> Are you honest about your standard standard drinks per week?
01:50:14
>> Yeah. And I remember going into him once some day and saying um and it sounds a
01:50:20
funny odd sort of thing, but I' i'd taken what I thought was one of my was one of my um diabetes pills and it was
01:50:27
actually something else that a friend of mine had put in my >> Oh, like a Viagra or something.
01:50:33
>> No, no, no. Worse. >> Worse, >> not worse, but you know what I mean. >> So, and anyway, and he had quite a good
01:50:40
laugh. Yeah. So you got and so it means you can be totally open about anything. Yeah.
01:50:45
>> So >> are you um have you found you got more emotional as you get older? Do you do
01:50:50
you cry much? >> I tell you uh the one thing is guaranteed to make me cry. This is I I
01:50:57
can do a bit of sloppy. It's funny. But the one thing is have you ever listened to the selfish giant? The story of the
01:51:03
selfish giant used to be on the kids request sessions in the morning, you know, and the selfish giant lived there
01:51:08
and this kid comes into the garden. It all blossoms into fl and it's Jesus basically, you know, it's written by
01:51:14
Oscar Wild, you know, and then one day comes in and the child's it's all winter and the child's at the bottom of the
01:51:19
tree and you who has dared to hurt thee. I always remember that line in this thing and um and the selfie giant gets
01:51:26
all sort of wound up about it. It's a beautiful story. Every time I hear I cannot listen to that story without
01:51:32
crying. I don't know what it is. It's just Google it when you get it's called The Selfish Giant by Oscar Wild.
01:51:38
Fantastic. But some things things do. I mean, yeah, I get um I don't sort of sit
01:51:43
there and just suddenly turn into, >> you know, just blub away for nothing. It's healthy to cry, I think.
01:51:49
>> I think it's it's good. It's um Yeah, it's an emotion that's good to lean into, I think.
01:51:53
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Why do you think that that particular story sets you off? >> I don't know. It just sort of I don't
01:51:59
know what it is. And it's uh it's it's all about sort of injustice and sort of the cruelty and everything like that.
01:52:05
But it was just yeah it always um it used to be this thing in the on the Sunday mornings you know the kids
01:52:10
request session you know be sparky and the talking train and um the little prince you know which is the statue and
01:52:17
got the swallow to take all the gold off him and give it away to see >> got the squallow to take all the gold
01:52:23
off him and give it to the poor people you know and that's another >> they're sort of designed I think to sort
01:52:28
of um you know pull up the emotional heartstrings >> or doing its job >> doing it job for from a almost
01:52:35
70-year-old me. >> Oh, that's right. That's right. >> Dude, what what what is your biggest
01:52:39
fear? What are you afraid of? >> Um, well, like most people, I think I'm afraid I'm getting dementia. Yeah. What
01:52:47
I come into this room for? No, it's starting. I I've always been paranoid about the
01:52:53
fact would you be conscious if you got dementia or whatever, would you be aware that you were starting to lose it?
01:53:00
>> You know, would that that that could be the that could be the worst thing. But I
01:53:04
remember I hit on this neurologist one time on when I was doing the um talkback and I said you know look I'm
01:53:10
convinced of you know I've got um I'm getting dementia I'm forgetting. He said look the difference is this you know if
01:53:17
you can't find your car keys you know that's you know that's just that's just age and forgetfulness. If you don't know
01:53:24
what the car keys are for that's dementia >> you know. So, and he said it's just we
01:53:30
all get you're getting older and you when you think about it all those memories in your brain, you know, so
01:53:34
you're talking to somebody who's 20, you got 50 years more storage taken up there
01:53:39
and and it's like it's like people say, "Oh, listen." All like but I do. Yeah. Remember back when I was on the show
01:53:45
with you and we did that? Well, it's trying to Yeah, hang on. Um, but the huggy gang thing was that
01:53:52
certainly I couldn't forget. Um, so yeah, that's that's that that would always be the thing of of losing it
01:53:58
without realizing it. Um, and uh, yeah, I often wonder whether you'd you know, like the you die by choice, you know,
01:54:07
what would what I certainly don't want to end up sort of, you know, you know, you see people when they and
01:54:13
they just, you know, they're a mess, you know, I don't want to remember people like that.
01:54:18
No, it's it's it's unfair. Especially if someone's had like a proud and dignified
01:54:22
sort of life and then >> that's the lasting memory of them. Yeah, it's awful. Do you have any regrets?
01:54:28
>> You know, no, I think you got to, you know, there was there's all sorts of, you know, things you can regret. It's
01:54:34
it's just it's it's a it's wasted energy regrets, I think. You know, >> I mean, there might be the things you
01:54:39
always wish I'd, you know, got to do this or got to do that or saw this or saw that, but no,
01:54:43
>> you know, would I change things? No. you know and um and as I said I had such a
01:54:49
fantastic it was like going to the thing why you're TV and zed so long it was like going to a new job so you went from
01:54:55
you know researcher to a reporter to a documentary maker to a current affairs reporter to a um political editor to a
01:55:04
foreign correspondent you know to you know and then end up doing the old you know like the close-up gig. So, it's
01:55:10
like all these different things >> and that that kept it sort of fresh and different and and you had a great time,
01:55:14
you know, and we used to have fun. >> We used to get out there. It was the old work hard, play hard, you know,
01:55:21
>> and um and you know, thank God there weren't camera phones and everything else like that. We probably would have
01:55:25
been fired or in jail. Um but you know, there was and and and there was a belief, you know, we believed in what
01:55:32
we're doing and we believed in the standards of what we should have. >> Um and that and that you had to treat
01:55:38
people fairly. M you know >> I think you did as well. You always did. >> Yeah. Well, that's what I do like to
01:55:43
think. >> What does a a good day look like to you to you now? >> Waking up, you know. Um I uh I like I'm I'm need to
01:55:54
be involved in something. You see, this is why I want to I'd really like to do another job somewhere,
01:55:59
>> you know, >> like a full-time job. >> Oh, not even Well, ideally it'd be a be
01:56:02
a part-time job, but you know, >> I'd like to be someone's spook or entertainer. I love entertaining. I just
01:56:08
absolutely love that. Um uh I'd love doing stuff. >> Um I even I mean I like involved you
01:56:14
know doing training and different things but I still want to I I want to do things. I don't want to just sit around
01:56:20
because I just get bored you know as I say you know idle hands. >> So you need a reason to get out of bed
01:56:25
in the morning. >> Yeah. You got to be busy. So you got to do stuff and it's sort of and that's by
01:56:29
the thing got to start you know generating stuff you know. >> So now I've seen how easy it is to
01:56:33
become a multi-millionaire running a podcast. Oh, what about the mural thing? There
01:56:38
was a rumor last year. >> I was approached to say I thought about it because I was really so depressed
01:56:42
about Wellington where it was at. I thought and it just it needed a a boy up as much as anything. But then I looked
01:56:48
at it realistically and thought I don't have the financial skills to be able to look at a balance sheet and look at
01:56:54
different things and being able to, you know, argue the toss for things. I think
01:56:57
I'd be a great cheerleader for Wellington. I could do that, you know, blindfolded. But you didn't and and I
01:57:02
didn't necessarily and I thought also you needed the the the national small end government um
01:57:11
connections to be able Wellington you look at it something's going to happen they can't afford to do everything
01:57:16
themselves there's going to be some accommodation with government so need someone who could traver and and as soon
01:57:20
as little put his hand up you knew well that's that's the best bet for it so I was quite happy just to just to step
01:57:26
back and boy and boy oh boy was I pleased that I made that decision. ision. Can you imagine, right, Mark? Go
01:57:32
and swim in the harbor. Go and explain why this is 120 million over budget. Go and do this. Go and do
01:57:39
that. No. So, I think the best person with the job is in there. But I think Wellington does need a boy up. You know,
01:57:44
I love Wellington. It's a great city. It's challenging. You know, >> it's kind of lost its mojo a bit.
01:57:50
>> It has lost it. It's funny. You talk to people all the time and they just say
01:57:53
it. It used to be one stage, you know, that greatest little city, but it needs to get Yeah, it needs to get its mojo
01:57:58
back and um Yeah, >> cuz there was a time that I god it's a long time ago now, but they had that
01:58:04
slogan absolutely positively Wellington, which was iconic. >> Yeah. >> Um that was probably Peak Wellington.
01:58:09
Would you you'd still have the energy and the heartbeats as Paul Henry would say, for a job like that?
01:58:14
>> Well, then that's the other thing you do seriously have to consider, you know, um
01:58:18
because that was the other thing, you know, people and what I did was I went and talked to a number of people about
01:58:22
it. people have been there. Um, people have been involved with the council. I said, "I want to know what's involved in
01:58:27
the work and stuff." And, and the reality is you'd be, you know, every weekend, you know, there be Island Bay
01:58:32
Fate. You got to go and cut the ribbon there. And Sunday, you'd be doing the, "Oh, it's a blessing for the animals at
01:58:37
um, you know, Aero Bay and what, you know, you would not have a lot of time off."
01:58:41
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> You would have to be pretty scrupulous in your personal life. You know, you
01:58:47
couldn't sort of afford to, you know, get out on the rant or whatever. Although >> Tory Faro did okay. when Mark Bumsky was
01:58:53
mayor, that was one of his strengths. You'd see him out at night and he was a great they loved it. Yeah, he really
01:58:58
kept Wellington going that whole night life thing. >> Um so yes, so I think I I certainly made
01:59:02
the best decision there and I think um little is sort of Andrew's probably is the best chance we've got.
01:59:08
>> But you know, >> Awesome. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's cool. What do you hope people
01:59:12
feel after spending time with you? >> Um Oh, I'd mean we all have that thing. We all want to be liked, don't we? We
01:59:21
all have every every single I don't know anyone who doesn't want apart from Paul
01:59:24
Henry seems to be says he's happy not to be liked. I doubt it. But yeah, we we always wanted people coming, oh yeah,
01:59:29
he's not a bad guy. You know, that's what you want. >> He's an egotistical prick.
01:59:34
>> I think people that are drawn to the media definitely have that gene maybe more than others.
01:59:38
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it is. And he's a funny old cat, Paul. >> Very strange.
01:59:45
>> Oh, no. Have you had much to do with him? >> Oh, sort of. Yes. And no. I mean, more
01:59:48
was it because I never when I started there and we first met up really doing a promo shoot for TV and
01:59:55
Zed, you know, on top of um Mount Eden and sitting in a in a Mark 1 Zepha convertible or something, you know, and
02:00:01
got chatting away and um I said to him, I'm just going to say one name and I mentioned this woman's name. How do you
02:00:09
know about that? Staff at TV and said, I said, everyone knows about that, Paul. Everyone knows all the people you slept
02:00:15
with since you've been here. I just want to let you know cuz I did you know places like would go around and he had
02:00:19
this reputation you know and um he's what he always wanted that job and and then
02:00:28
said how what a disgrace it was that I got it and how I was hopeless did he in his book in his book he just would now I
02:00:34
would never do that to someone else but but but look Paul's Paul you know so you
02:00:38
know but he he sort of got away with it but sort of never forgave >> I think Bill or any of them for giving
02:00:44
me the gig down to him and I getting it right. >> Oh, I missed that completely. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
02:00:49
>> Oh, he he wouldn't have lasted 5 years, though. Like he he gets he gets bored so
02:00:53
easily, doesn't he? He do it for a couple of years and then be bored. >> I mean, I quite like he's a funny he's a
02:00:57
he is a funny guy. >> Oh, yeah. I've had him on the podcast. I I I love him. I think he's I think he's
02:01:03
bloody great. But then I don't have I don't have that sort of feud or that beef with him.
02:01:07
>> Yeah. It was just, you know, >> sort of Yeah. Anyway, >> is legacy something you think about at
02:01:13
all? >> No. >> No. Don't give a [ __ ] >> No, I mean it's it's it's the only thing
02:01:17
is as I like to as I used to like to say to Jeremy, well, I'm the last of the one
02:01:21
host presenters at TV and Zed, you have to share your show with Hillary. >> Are you quite close with Jeremy Wells?
02:01:30
>> Oh, yeah. Over the Yeah. Yeah. Have been over the years. He used to when I was,
02:01:33
you know, doing closeup, they used to come up up to and had the flat on top of the um
02:01:39
>> um above Starbucks there on the corner of Queen Street. Um and uh yeah, used to
02:01:44
hang out. He was great fun. And we I used to have had him on election night broadcast and that sort of stuff. So
02:01:50
yeah, I really like Jeremy. He's a great great talent. And I mean I can anyone who's listening go and Google the worst
02:01:57
of EML and you'll see Jeremy Wells farming mi on the rolling hills. I mean I cannot believe what they got
02:02:07
through got away with on that show. >> EML eating media. Oh, you did you work with Phil Smith?
02:02:12
>> Yeah, I knew Phil really >> on the home show. Yeah, I had him on the podcast a couple of months ago. So, we
02:02:16
we talked about the birth and the the the idea of eating media lunch and some of the stories they did and how they got
02:02:22
away with it. >> Yeah. >> The moldy porn >> the first port and and they did it so
02:02:27
well and and and of course um you know all the graphics and the >> um and all the behind the scenes stuff
02:02:33
of course that >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Are you proud of yourself? >> No, I don't. No. No, I don't. I I don't
02:02:40
I never think about it like that. >> I'm not I don't I don't I'm not disappointed in myself, you know.
02:02:48
>> Touchwood. Um yeah. So I just I've never >> Why is it too difficult to say you're
02:02:53
proud of yourself? >> I know it's not difficult to say it, but I suppose I always used to shoe that
02:02:59
sort of ego thing. Yet the funny thing, you know, but you Well, that's a bit odd
02:03:02
taking a job like that, you know, whereas was part of it. But I as I said I tried
02:03:09
you know I you know I could see that albatross around people's neck we become so much belonging to the public that you
02:03:15
know >> it's sort of you don't have any other life. >> Um but you know it was it was a real
02:03:20
privilege. I got to do amazing things. I met amazing people did stuff you know it
02:03:24
was a great time and those years will never repeat. >> Yeah. >> So even if I got a call now from TV and
02:03:30
said sorry Mark we made a big mistake. Can you come back? It's never going to be like it was, you know.
02:03:37
>> No, it's a snapshot. It's a moment in time. But why is it so hard to say you're proud of yourself? Like you
02:03:42
you're almost 70 years old. >> Oh, well, pride comes before a fool. >> You've only been married once. You've
02:03:48
you've you've hung on to the same woman for 40 years. You've got adult kids. I'm
02:03:52
not just talking about the career. Like, it's been a a bloody good life. You never you never hear anyone apart from
02:03:56
Paulry that says a bad word about you. >> Yeah. >> Like you you know the impact that you've
02:04:01
had in the 69 years. >> Yeah. No, no. I'm happy to get through. I mean, as as I said, I think it's in
02:04:05
our nature. We all want to be No one wants to be disliked, >> you know. I can remember once I went to
02:04:10
when I went to journalism schools the same year as Steve Bronness and um um >> uh who else was in our was in our year?
02:04:18
Kathy Edmonds. Um but anyway, Steve Brorius and I remember he wrote a column once in Da talked about the odious Mark
02:04:26
Sainsbury. >> What does odius mean? >> Odious means awful. Horrible. Odious. Odious. Um Fran was our year too of
02:04:34
course. Um but yeah and I thought you prick. But then I realized he dissed on everyone you know there was equal
02:04:41
opportunity. It wasn't just me. So just at the time and then I how you mate? How
02:04:45
you getting on? You know hey hang on a minute. You were calling me odious and you're calling me but just you just got
02:04:50
to let that go. But but it was because he was an equal opportunity opportunity um you know insultter. He would have
02:04:55
have a crack at everyone. But it always amazed me that. >> Yeah. So you take you do I mean well you
02:05:01
know you know whatever. >> Um or oh you look much bigger on screen was always the other thing.
02:05:08
>> Jesus not big enough as I am now. >> Well this has been a fun couple of hours. I think you're looking great.
02:05:14
>> Yeah. Well look I feel good and but I get over and over. You're right you know
02:05:20
but as my doctor said for the first time in my life I'm probably BMA. What the other thing is I've stopped going to the
02:05:25
gym and stuff like that. So, I need to actually lose muscle tone. >> So, I got to start.
02:05:30
>> Next time you see me, I'll be >> Oh, no. You just need sort of functional muscles.
02:05:34
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> There's there's a book by a guy called um Dr. Peter Artier called out live
02:05:38
which I really love and it talks about you're working out the things you want to be doing at say say 80 like lifting a
02:05:44
suitcase in an overhead carrier and you know you need to do the exercises that are going to enable you to do that in
02:05:50
the future. >> Made my to a funeral the other day and the guy died after doing exactly that.
02:05:55
He was on a plane in his 80s getting this conchk hit the deck. >> Well, this has been a lot of fun. Well,
02:06:02
I think you're looking great. You and you got you got young energy. Like you came in here today and you had a cool
02:06:07
leather jacket on and you layered clothing >> and the leather jacket. I love that
02:06:11
leather jacket because it belonged to a mate of mine, guy called Andy Gibb who was an editor. I mean, he was one of
02:06:16
those guys. He saved my ass so many times. When I'd do a story, you could come back with all tapes, make this
02:06:21
work, Andy. And he would and he was a genius. and he was the funniest guy he ever met. He died a couple of years back
02:06:27
and I was rounded to seeing his at his wife's house, Liz. And she said, "Oh, Andy's." And he had this leather jacket
02:06:33
I always covered. And he said, "Andy's jacket." No, it's still here. I said, "I won't fit it." You know, he was a lot
02:06:39
skinnier in those days than he said. He went downstairs, got it, put it on, >> fit like a glove. Beautiful made in
02:06:45
Scotland flying jacket. Love that jacket. And I'd spent the previous two weeks, I kid you not,
02:06:50
>> obsessively trying to find the exact same jacket. It must have been because it just reminded me, you know, when he
02:06:54
died. >> [ __ ] I want to get a jacket. I want one like Andy's. And so that's I I wear it
02:06:58
all the time. >> Oh, that's the one. >> That's the one. >> That is just like the chill song.
02:07:03
>> Yeah. Yes. >> It's incredible. >> Yeah. >> I think that's a great place to end it.
02:07:08
>> I think so. >> Is there any final words? Anything you want to say or >> Well, guys, go to men'shealthweek.co.nz.
02:07:17
just log on and do watch your score because if even one person watching this goes and does it, it could save your
02:07:22
life. You know, that's what it's about. And um >> you you need to be looking at that
02:07:26
camera. >> I like Is it Sorry. >> That's the That's the one. >> Guys, guys, if you do one thing, get on
02:07:32
to men'shealthweek.co.nz and do what's your score? Good on you. Hey, thanks Tom.
02:07:39
>> You're a good man saying Yeah. Thank you so much, mate. This has been a lot of
02:07:42
fun. >> I can never forgive what you did to those gners. Hey, hey, hey.