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timl welcome to my podcast thank you thanks for inviting me yeah I I sent you an invite um you replied to me um I
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organized some flights packed up from the airport but the way how was my driving everyone criticizes my driving
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it was good yeah yeah very safe thank you so um this is um a crazy story that you've got you were um one of the
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victims with the uh Crush mosque shooting on um March 15 2019 yes I'm the Survivor yeah how are you thank you very
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much about six years later still you know I can say it's same old same old like day
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one yeah so you got a shot nine you you got a shot more than anyone else you got
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shot nine times yeah I have a record so a record that nobody else want yeah next persons only have five bullets
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you know so you can imagine and comparing so it is it is some sort of a miracle that you
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hear yes miracles in Miracles yeah M so you got a shot shot number one in the yeah the first bullet is entered to the
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my uh mouth from this angle and then uh Turkish Maiden te Bridge te is a metal based and
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ceramic cover so that's the slow d and or pretty much B uh stop it the bullets
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forcing into my brain and then sliding on the side back jaw and then going down to the bottom jaw and broken my bottom
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jaw with bullets so I have two Platinum yeah it was very scary I was thinking I died on first bullet M and
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then where did the other eight go to yeah I have five bullets on my legs one each knees and on my left Cal two
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bullets and and also upper thigh on my left legs is have one bullets and then three bullets on my arms yeah there's
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some there's a lot of scaring on your left arm right yeah you can see the all
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the way to from my chest to middle of my hands to the big scar that's maybe meter
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probably long m yeah so um flying here from Christ Church to Oakland today how's how's like the Aviation Security
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like do you do you go off in the scanners yeah yeah they are very funny because I'm beeping very quickly so they
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stopping me and they put me the 3D scan so and then afterwards they still not sure oh he's free to go or something
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like this especially this morning he looked at me eyes and then I didn't do any reaction said okay you're free to go
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and then a past but when they do sensitive you know I'm beeping and then they panicking and they stopping me cuz
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you've got fragments everywhere yes yes this is a I showed you some the exray so
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you can see I'm light lighting like a a Christmas tree in the X-ray you can see
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that yes white spots everywhere yeah now we just to time stamp this conversation
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we're recording this around the time of the 6th anniversary um March 15 how does
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it look for you each year now yeah every time every year especially in beginning the March I
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start the stress because of uh I know the March 15 is the day the massacr happen and then I witnessed really bad
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way to the you know hours in the and then it's not easy the flashbacks is coming back because I live with that
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every day anyway but at the beginning of March this two weeks is very stressful for me because of very emotional and
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then it is still very fresh and raw for me to and I live it like yesterday when it's March 15 happened and this year is
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the 14th of March is the Friday and I will go Friday pray in the elor mosque and I will
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remember with we lost 51 shuhada and then of course we'll see the catch up with the
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other uh blood wanded and uh injured people and survivors so it is really really uh
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emotional for me so something like this podcast today how is this for you is this difficult you're still feeling you
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know uh nervous or uh uh stressed but you know this is the my mission I feel because of
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the I survived after all that bullet injuries I may die on the first bullet but this
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is the miracle and I Ser white and then it should be some reason from Allah to why I'm survived and then I decided be
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openly and explained and talk about it and inform the people what was happened on that day and how we affected and what
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we are struggled still in current day what are triggered so I do this for mission for
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awareness and inform the people and also I try to uh uh make example to Authority people
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and understand and makes this uh New Zealand safe again like before the March 15 and we should get lesson from it yeah
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well I appreciate you being here today so um yeah so after this in a few hours time when you're on the plane going back
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to Christ Church like do you feel drained is it exhausting of course it's not easy for me because of uh every
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single seconds when we are talking here I am living in it m so when I'm talking
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with you I see same time when everything I explain what I see is coming you know
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like a film is going in front of my eyes and then I'm explain to you and I'm
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talking about that because I'm seeing now yeah cu the reason I asked that it
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probably seems like a silly silly question to ask but we we've just been um sitting out in the office area for
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the past hour or so and um you you grabbed a piece of paper and drew a diagram and were explaining to us in the
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office what what happened that day um and where you were in relation to the the terrorist and um where everyone else
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was and um you just talk about it almost like mechanically yeah almost like robotically yeah JJ was in in tears like
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she was streaming in tears but you were sort of methodically just running through how things happened do you just
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s of are you able to tell the story and go on sort of autopilot a bit yeah it is
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autopilot at the moment because of if I don't do that you know I can't talk and
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I can't inform you and other peoples who lived in New Zealand all around the
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world and I have to be strong enough for to do that and also I think this is the
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come from my character and Turkish nationalities Turkish peoples is stubborn so I am one of that I'm
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stubborn Turkish man so because of I er uh tell myself this is my mission and I'm focused for it and I want to uh New
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Zealand safe again and it's not forgotten till March 15 we should get lesson and then we have
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to save this country for our future Generations yeah your sons your grandkids my sons my grandkids your
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daughters and everybody's children's has to be feel safe again in New Zealand by the way I was born in New
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Zealand but um I think I might be Turkish I'm very stubborn yeah yes welcome to my we should we should go
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travel turkey together yeah I don't know I think two two stubborn people traveling together is a bad idea we can
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be good company yeah so um the reason the reason this all happened is because you're a Muslim that's the only reason
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this this happen I was a worshipper in the mosque on that day yeah so so um what does it mean exactly what does it
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mean to be a Muslim it's only the faith you know and and also you believing and
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this is how I grew up it's not my uh fault to be born in the Muslim country in turkey and is Muslim
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family I born and I am like this and is I feel no different than you you know you feel how you feel here you born in
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New Zealand I feel exactly the same when I was born in turkey and how I grow up it is normal life you know I never feel
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you like coffee I like coffee you like dance I like crazy dance too you know I like to go nightclub you like to go
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nightclubs too so we are no different as a human and I didn't feel different so
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this is I learned from my childhood my mother is praying five times reading Quran but my father wasn't do that my
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brother's not do that my older sisters do that but my youngest sisters not do
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that you know we don't do five time practicing or fasting or you know because of this is uh personal choice
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and personal problem if it is the problem you know between Allah God or yourself this is no third parties
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problem so I don't understand uh this uh hatred come from and uh the March 15
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2019 Terror attacks happened from one of the racist extremist and did Massacre because of hate Muslim
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people if you ask how many time you've been in the Muslim country probably he will say
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none or you know what who is the Muslim persons harmed you you know they can't
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he can't answer it but this is radicalizing you know in the dark web and then they play the video games like
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shooting something like this and then probably didn't do anything like what I
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did because I was very active I like football I like swimming I like to do gym I like to do running
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and I like to do tracking I was very love to play the golf with my friends you know I was interested one day to
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learn the tennis too you know and I play table tennis you know um uh you know activities I like to do
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it lots too and probably this person you know this terrorist didn't do anything like
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what I did and then l most of my friends in New Zealand is New Zealander or English
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nationalities or Dutch or you know do you understand what I mean you know no one is judge me because of I'm Muslim
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because they seeing me I am one of them and my U ex-wife she's non-believer too
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aist but I married with her and I raised two kids she never judge me because I'm
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Muslim I never judge her because she's atheist because we care about each others because of we are
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human and this is my ideology love the Creator created because of the Creator that's how I look to the people
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so if I can do that two opposite Believers can become together and then walk together the same road is easy but
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I don't understand why this kind of peoples are choosing harming the innocent peoples or
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worshippers in the mosque you you sort of gave us um an insight there into who you were before
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March 15 2019 in terms of all the activity and all the physical stuff you did um let's drill down on that a little
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bit and you p a pature of who you were so you're from Turkey yes um shall we
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say turkey not turkey turkey because of United Nations is confirmed we are not turkey
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[Laughter] we are Turkish and we are from Turkey right yes so um I I'm a I'm a New
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Zealander that's um that's been to Turkey yeah yes um it's a good opportunity for me to inform
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people than for that UC so being in New Zealand I've been you probably can guess
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where I've been I went to gpol I went to um IST and capid doia as all that very
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nice places to go especially New Zealand or should go to because we have the same history over
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there and you know 100 years ago our grandparents grandfathers is fight over there and I call that last gentleman war
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in gpol with new zealanders and Turkish armies there fighting each others as a gentleman they killed each others but
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later on they become friends and 100 years later de's grandkids is married and make love and then have two
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childrens and raise the childrens and many many new zealanders like this married with Turkish people like that
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too and they have peaceful life together yeah that's the important part you know
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we can do it together yeah for sure so where are you from you're from whereabouts in Turkey down the down the
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B South South Coast it's called fettia My Hometown is very popular uh holiday
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spot for the tourism and tourist is lots of uh tourist is coming there to for having holiday yeah and I I believe um
00:15:08
from my research you were you were a naughty boy you're you're a bad a bad
00:15:12
boy you you you lived in um like a few stories up and you used to like go on your balcony and pee pee on the street
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did you see that documentary yeah yeah where I where I was growing up it was like apartment
00:15:25
houses and we are on the fourth floor and then it's summertime is very hot you
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know and then I sleep in the balcony of course when I need to go to the toilet I have to pass many other
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brothers and sisters and fathers all the way you know so I can't do that and then
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all right okay I have to do pain down to from sometimes I was very naughty when I
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see the peoples walking you know but probably four five years old you know that time so you can't
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against you um and yeah so so who were you so you loved your football um your your dad died very young your
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dad died when you were Liv you lost your dead when you were Liv yes uh that's to
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give me big trauma also too because I lost my father's very young he died from
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the L ccer he was a very heavy smoker and of course his very stressed life for looking after the big
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families and then um and also pay the bills same time so he died uh very slow actually on that days is you know
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technology is not as like today mhm so 8 months stayed in hospital and when I was
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visit him in last time before he died a week before I saw him in the hospital room and I always remember him as like
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that you know I can never forget that image and then week later after I visited I find he died and then they
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bring the his body and uh his big part is I lost in my heart and in my soul big part missing and then so I still missing
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lots I'm 50 so pretty much 39 years ago I lost and then when as March 15 happened I was very close to die on that
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day and I didn't think anyone else not not my mother or brothers or sisters or
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niece and nephews I was only thinking my two son I always scared they shared like my
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past you know um they lost me when they are little young and then they grow up with our father without father
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so I was really crying and praying to uh spare my life from from from the in the
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MOs so so you know I I was very lucky to survived and then I'm here in New Zealand for my kids they are 18 and 20
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now and yeah I have a little bit issue with younger son but I want uh he knows I'm here and I will be always next to
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him when he needs me and uh I catch up with my older son he's 20 we pretty much
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seeing each other's every second or third week and he's catch up with me and
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we're having good time together yeah cuz you just I mean just talking about it
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you can see the impact that losing your father at a young age had on you so you were 11 when your dad died um your
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younger son was 12 when the mosque shooting happened yeah pretty yeah so he he almost lost his dad at the same you
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lost your dad um and yeah and also uh in March 15 on the first day is something is happened in the system and they lost
00:19:04
me and nobody can find me and then about 10 hours 12 hours later they find me and then the person
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is the identify me is my older son and I can imagine how hard for him to see me in that position because they were
00:19:25
thinking they can't find me in hospital and then they said police or nurses said
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them please prepare him maybe still in the Mosk maybe expect he died and can you imagine the feeling of
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my older Sons how he traumatized his dad is stinking his dad is died and no one can have any information
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about me and then they find me in middle of the night midnight in in of cares and
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then he identified me his I'm his father and he was 14 at the time yeah so for
00:20:05
that whole afternoon evening he he was hoping for the best but preparing for the worst yeah it was the story yeah so
00:20:13
imagine there's uh feelings and traumatizing you know are they the the boys have they have
00:20:22
they had therapy are they having therapy yeah we had some short time they had but
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you know ACC in limited uh uh giving uh session for the that time children's but
00:20:36
of course uh I can I can see that they traumatize a lot are not surprising either yeah okay so so so your dad dies
00:20:47
when you're 11 you you start working when you're 12 are you still at school
00:20:50
yeah I was 12 yeah yeah yeah so you so you go to school during the day yes and then and then you you're working family
00:20:59
with my cousin I went to fishing in the FTI Harbor on that uh time they have a dingy and fishing nets and then I was
00:21:10
rowing to the dingy and he was losing the the uh fishing nets we are going to same class during the day same school
00:21:19
same class and then we going work together nighttime and then wake up get up early in the morning go take the fish
00:21:27
nets out and clean it come home and then change and go to school his fathers come
00:21:35
and pick up to the uh shrimps and PRS we catch it in the harbor and then yeah we made it money
00:21:43
and then he's pay me money on the end of the week so the money is just so you can
00:21:49
like help pay you know help the household or provide for family I helped my mother because uh she was Widow when
00:21:56
she's 39 and then look after six kids how how are you not falling asleep in class
00:22:05
difficult difficult but I was as I said to you I'm stubborn man so yeah wow on that time I was very
00:22:14
stubborn too yeah yeah and and you moved um to New Zealand in 2009 with your your
00:22:19
New Zealand born wife yeah um so is she from Christ Church originally she is born tomorrow yeah but uh they came to
00:22:30
Christ Church when she start University so they liveed uh in Christ Church since uh she's 20 right so or 18
00:22:41
something yeah so you met you met her in turkey and you fall in you fall in love
00:22:44
over there yeah we did yeah she was living in London she was working in London as a teacher and then she did
00:22:53
travel to turkey turkey and I'm sometimes you said that but I change it yeah yeah yeah okay and uh she was
00:23:06
the packing and trip like Istanbul galipoli kadakia oos kind of like this and then they come to early Denis F here
00:23:14
some holiday spot in FTI here and I was working in the boat like a second captain charge hands off to the old Bots
00:23:24
pretty much managing everything's in the BS too and also entertainment I was
00:23:28
doing I think I attracted her she attracted me and then both side and then having chat lots of times and then she
00:23:38
asked me where she can go at night time to the bar for fun and then I give it to
00:23:45
the one of my friends bar name always I go oh you can go this place it's and then I went to the that night
00:23:54
is watching the football game first F bikash derby match I was fanatic of the bik dash fan and then I watch and then
00:24:02
afterwards I go to the bar oh someone just waving me oh hello and then I have my drink I was
00:24:11
drinking that time my beer and then she was already starting drinking with her friends and then oh hello how are you
00:24:18
and then we start nice yeah holiday romance yeah and then yeah I went to England one year later we married and
00:24:28
then uh I went to England with her and then come back to Turkey 2002 and we lived until 2009 she was working in
00:24:39
Ankara as a teacher in the embassy group and then uh our sons born in Ankara and then when they were three and
00:24:50
five years old we came to New Zealand I traveled to New Zealand since 2001 so every year as a tourist also too
00:25:01
before 2009 so I was very familiar New Zealand life and New Zealand people and then I was thinking new zealanders very
00:25:11
friendly very welcoming and happy face looking smiling every time say hello and very relaxed
00:25:21
lifestyle and then beautiful scenics and lots of nice uh beach around you know know when Kary I was fall in love with
00:25:32
Kary beach in the 2002 and when we were in Nelson so when my wife is asking to move to New Zealand
00:25:42
in 2009 I couldn't say no one of the big reason is safe country to we choose to settle life for
00:25:52
our kids and our grandkids because first reason was safe country second reason was uh good
00:26:01
educations and also you know good lifestyle and uh good opportunities for uh me for my kids outdoor sports and the
00:26:12
lots of sports opportunities to because new zealanders I saw that time they are very supportive country and then they
00:26:19
have lots of successful uh in Olympics I was keep eye and watch them you know they did better
00:26:26
than you know 5 million pop is better than 85 million population of Turkey to what success in the Olympic so I was
00:26:35
always you know uh thinking you know it's good opportunity for the sports for
00:26:40
the kids too how how um just going back to um those first trips to New Zealand like in the in the early 2000s um how
00:26:47
was that traveling as a Muslim at that time CU that's around the time of the um
00:26:52
the 91 tourist attacks terrorist attacks in the US and I feel like um every every
00:26:59
Muslim was sort of put under a microscope at that point because of the Bush government yes yes I did a really
00:27:04
hard time yeah when I get first uh visa to go new uh England MH they refuseed me
00:27:11
twice and third time they give me and I get already refused to go to Australia too my brother's living there but I
00:27:20
can't visit him because of you know pre judging to Muslim country or turkey they did prejudging pretty much
00:27:29
they don't believe it you know I have a money I have a business I have a house
00:27:33
everything I have but I'm I can't go as a tourist anyway um the New Zealand is
00:27:40
pretty much is was easy because of they seeing us uh we married I've been in England
00:27:49
and then we live together in turkey and we have some money in the account and then uh I am coming to New Zealand with
00:27:57
my wife to meet with the her parents and family members and it was uh all paperworks completed and then we get it
00:28:08
but we of course we waiting few months to the for respond you know for result yeah after that you know easier
00:28:17
and easier because we did Regular easy every year in around Christmas time and New Year time so that was make every
00:28:26
year easier and easier and and quicker and quicker yeah so immigrations like oh yeah we we can trust this guy now yeah
00:28:34
yeah pretty much yeah pretty much um in terms of of um like racism or any like anti-muslim stuff in New Zealand um pre
00:28:42
2019 did you experience anything um yeah pretty much you know when the people seeing you and they looking when you are
00:28:51
brown skin or olive skin you know they looking something very strange you know where you from and when they find out
00:29:01
I'm Turkish you know for example when I was uh working in painting company one
00:29:06
of the uh colleague he new zealanders and he's he knows I'm from turkey and he knows I'm Muslim on that
00:29:17
time you know also uh all around the world they experienced with the 9/11 also you know
00:29:25
the uh Syria war and is happening you know and then he's joking like oh allahar boom you know kind of like this
00:29:36
he was thinking he is funny and he's joking to me but he's uh I feel very
00:29:42
offensive offensive so I wasn't like even that you know I inform him he doesn't I don't like it but he's keep
00:29:50
doing on the end you know look why I kill myself you know I'm not stupid like
00:29:56
that persons or people I'm not a terrorist if I want to kill you I'm not kill myself I kill you you
00:30:04
know I'm killing myself you know please stop that stupid joke you know I don't
00:30:09
like it you know and then oh okay you know he understand you know why I'm killing myself I kill you and then
00:30:17
problem solved isn't it because your your perspective you know if there you know someone's died why I'm died you
00:30:26
died you know do it make sense I oh okay yes and then he stop it afterwards yeah
00:30:32
oh that's good yeah yeah but we come become a good friends later on we drink after works every get through that
00:30:41
um yeah he probably meant it just as what we call a new like b or just having having a laugh he's thinking it's funny
00:30:48
but of course he's understand after we little argue but he understand it and he
00:30:52
show respect yeah geez you um oh it just occurred to me that the time you timed it badly so you you moved to New Zealand
00:31:00
in 2009 and then the earthquakes are oh yeah that's another bad experience in
00:31:05
New Zealand were you like saying to your wife let's move back to TOA let's get out of here yeah but my
00:31:12
country also the earthquake places too you know and then uh that's the mother
00:31:18
uh Nature's made it yes yeah so you can handle it easy when it's become natural
00:31:24
disaster isn't it so you can uh become very quickly back to normal life yes it was very difficult very
00:31:33
scary worrying about the children's life Etc you know I can't imagine how it was
00:31:39
scary but um it's not personal though not personal not man-made so that's the
00:31:45
different trauma and different uh yeah I'm so feel sorry for the you know parents to lost their
00:31:55
children in the CCTV buildings you know the students and I watch you know Tina the mother new movies is coming mhm
00:32:06
uh it's about to the earthquake ER in Christ Church the mother lost daughters
00:32:12
and then afterwards is this the samon mother and then she's the I think is the
00:32:21
uh music teacher oh okay that's really good movie I should recommend everyone
00:32:26
to watch that and showing today how was the uh earthquake happen and traumatize the people and afterwards how they you
00:32:35
know become okay what's it called Tina Tina okay t i n a yeah okay yeah so that
00:32:42
um she your boys have been through a lot so they would have been five and three during the earthquakes I think it's
00:32:49
turned four and six yeah how was that for them being a oh it was very scary for them and then uh they were every
00:32:57
every time when it's earthquake happened they scared and start tears and crying
00:33:04
and then especially young one Sam is very affected from it you know and scared lots and uh in they learned uh in
00:33:16
kindergartens you know uh drop hide hold you know he's practicing all the time
00:33:23
and when earthquake happen he's very quickly get under the table hold to the
00:33:29
table's legs and then calling Mom Dad come down it's it's it's terrible to to
00:33:36
look back and think that for for a lot of kids that was that became their new normal you know stop drop and roll or
00:33:41
whatever so yeah so you you so you're working as a painter in Christ church and then um you helped with the the
00:33:46
rebuild after the earthquakes and then um in 2018 you open a kebab shop in the in the hoists city center yes next to
00:33:53
the bus Exchange building yeah it is right in the center yeah and then uh it was new building and
00:34:02
top floor is Cinema entertainment HS buildings and then first ground floor is the foot Court built and we were one of
00:34:13
that uh uh restaurants because they do pretty much is a different nationalities different cultures Foods so we were one
00:34:25
of them so that's you and your business partner km kasum kasum yeah yeah yeah
00:34:30
yeah and um yeah so March Friday March 15 2019 he was working and you weren't
00:34:37
working that day yeah Friday it was uh my day off and because I do day of Friday and Saturday Friday for do my
00:34:48
worshiping and Friday praying Saturday for football M and rest and then of course is um uh he was
00:35:00
working five days I was working five days but we choose different days of the uh day off of works so we always be on
00:35:14
the uh job to because I the one of the main main to managing the business so pretty much always we need to be run to
00:35:26
Kitchen also same time yes to prepare the old kebabs and ready for the day and next
00:35:34
day so Friday uh was my uh main day off for worshipping yes so yeah let's R run
00:35:45
through that day so yeah the morning of um yeah Friday March 15 2019 yeah what happened you you wake up you wake up
00:35:54
when yeah I I get up like 10:00 because Thursday night I went to bed late like 2:00
00:36:05
3:00 and then on that day Elish I had a acupuncture session because of two years before that uh uh 200 19 March 15
00:36:23
I had ACL liament replacement surgery so the venturous fixing my scars in uh Pains of my
00:36:34
knees and I went to the my acupuncture session it was the last session and it's beautiful very sunny
00:36:46
day and I was wake up very happy and very rest rested normally you know you I get up tired but on that day
00:36:57
I was was very feel rest and then I went to do my acupuncturist beautiful nice oh I said
00:37:06
oh very nice very warm day for day off and then because I was thinking also after the
00:37:14
mosque uh praying go to do my banking cash uh you know the put in the cash the bank and then go to the beach to walk
00:37:26
because beautiful dat for a walk and then after sessions happen about uh I think it's 521 I start driving to
00:37:39
the mosque from Columbus Street today and then I arrived to the mosque 115 and I went to uh obligation W place
00:37:51
to take obligation prepare myself that means you're cleaning yourself before the pray
00:37:58
okay I did that and then I went to the main hall and then I did my uh uh I hear the
00:38:09
prayer call same time this happened and then I did first part of my uh worshiping praying and waiting the
00:38:19
uh Imam to coming for the his Friday speech so yeah this is the um the elor and rickon how how many times do you
00:38:29
think you'd been there before March 15 2019 like 100 times yeah yeah few hundred times bro every Friday you know
00:38:38
many years I go there so how many people normally go there on a Friday or when it's packed is like 500 600 people can
00:38:47
be easy M mhm and how how many people were there at that time sort of you know 1:30ish on
00:38:56
the Friday oh half full maybe few hundred P few hundred peoples 300s yeah and then um
00:39:06
it's yeah 1:40 p.m. is when um everything breaks you know Hell Breaks Loose basically
00:39:13
um yeah yeah what are your Recollections of of that when it begins what are you thinking when it
00:39:20
starts yeah I I was very uh happy and peaceful I said you know for the day I never think thinking something can go
00:39:29
wrong and when I look at the time it was 1:37 the imam's coming and go up the
00:39:37
mimba to make speech and I look at time and I see the uh little boy is having good time
00:39:47
with his father's cuddling and kissing and I looking everyone's preparing the
00:39:53
for self the listening the speech Friday speech and then beginning uh the Imam start the speech
00:40:02
to be and then beginning of the his speech is Big Bang sound is come it was you know
00:40:10
140 and you know outside and I was thinking like a car racing boys is driving and then
00:40:23
exhaust backfire yeah us to call backfire happening and and when is happened second time I said oh all right
00:40:29
a few cars passing and third one is happen and then when this sound is closer I was thinking oh that's very
00:40:36
loud I think maybe not the car maybe the uh electricity nearby the mosque is exploding and
00:40:46
then another shoots happening when I was turning the I see this black wearing helmets and uh black with you know
00:40:59
jackets and black drw like army military type of the wearing and see the persons
00:41:06
he killed front of the uh entry side and then he prepared his gun semi-automatic and then I was thinking
00:41:18
oh what's this policeman's doing here I was still thinking why he's you know
00:41:23
preparing his oh maybe someone's attacking the mosque he's maybe there for saving us but when he's Target
00:41:31
inside the mosque then I understand it's problem here big problem and then I see the smoke and
00:41:41
then I feel the first bullet in my mouth and then he was serial shooting so I see
00:41:46
the many people who around me in front of me is also killed same time too so you sort of made eye contact I
00:41:56
saw him you know his face before he's shooting he looked at inside first when
00:42:01
he's lift up I see his eyes and face straight I'm sure he's seeing me too M
00:42:09
but I I see his eyes and he's looking inside before he's shooting mhm and and
00:42:17
and before you not you get shot in the in the mouth yeah yeah um is it is it painful or are you just in shocked are
00:42:25
you just bewildered I didn't feel any pain just something is very strange feeling entered in your mouth but I know
00:42:34
it's bullet but it's didn't hurt but I was shocked of course because I'm hit
00:42:41
already and it's put me in shock when I was standing up he start he's carry on to this serial shooting so
00:42:51
I see the uh two more bullets entered the one of my each knees and then I was thinking oh that's the
00:43:00
bullet of the entering the body and oh that's not hurting that's my thought you know
00:43:07
because of shock and I see they all still The People's Front of Me on me is falling down to
00:43:15
ground after they get shot and then on that moment you know I see all the bodies who die is come the sprit out
00:43:30
and go in the roof of the mosque where I was in the main hole is uh how do you mean you know I feel I see the you know
00:43:41
like a third eye is opened and you see the bodies spir spirits come out and I see
00:43:50
myself around the big bubble and then very speech R and then I was thinking I'm
00:43:57
saved something you know it's Miracle you know I'm saved like with Angel you know Angels
00:44:05
around me and they are saving me from the bullets and I don't have any bullets
00:44:10
in my body straight on that serial shooting but I see the many people just dying around me but I'm still standing
00:44:21
and looking at them and I see that their sprits come out and then like lightning
00:44:26
is going out so that was so different experience for me I never forget that what I see and then in Islam we
00:44:35
believe the angel and also you know AEL will call the Angels taking the life it was there but it's
00:44:47
different uh object it's not I see him but different way I see is as a like a
00:44:55
light like traffic light I see triangles uh red uh green and blue all spirit is going up that light and then
00:45:05
travel to the Heaven by lightning but you know and then of course it is all this happened in few
00:45:13
seconds you know it sounds like a long time but this is all happened in the few seconds and then I see the next uh to me
00:45:22
the person I didn't see I see as a shadow run into the terrorist because he's already come next to the main
00:45:31
room's door and he's jump over the terrorist and then I was coming myself out of the
00:45:40
shock and then run away to to run to the exit door but of course the terrorist is
00:45:50
killed that's uh hero I call uh because of he died for for saving our life and then yeah I managed to run
00:46:03
otherwise if I still maybe stood stood there you know standing he's come and
00:46:09
I'm easy target for him still if I standing also so you were still standing so you'd been you've been shot in the
00:46:16
mouth and shot in the legs and you're still standing yeah yeah I was standing
00:46:21
until you know that uh person's jump to Terror terorist tried stopping him but
00:46:30
this this all happened like a you know few seconds few seconds like this you know it's very quickly happened and then
00:46:37
I ran my way to the emergency exit part door and it is like 105 of us there pushing the door to try to be exit but
00:46:49
door is jammed and no one's managed to get out and big Bank sounds is coming
00:46:55
and then terrorist coming and start shooting to our area and every once is dropped down and
00:47:04
I was lying down and someone's already injured lying down there and then I was listening he's
00:47:13
dying because I was lying on front of him and then one of the old men is get shot I don't know because he's
00:47:24
shooting cereal and I don't know how many he gets shot but he's doesn't move
00:47:30
and then I manage to pull him a little bit up of above my head you know with my right hands
00:47:38
because of uh I don't know how but I pull up and then hided my head under him
00:47:45
so like a shield yeah yeah yeah but he doesn't move you know on that time and
00:47:53
then of course everyone's top of each other's you know lying like a you know I don't know fish or pillows
00:48:00
you know you put it on 10 15 pillows top of each others like that we the whole pile of people lying down
00:48:08
there and yeah I I just can't imagine the um like the chaos and the pandemonium so
00:48:16
you've got the you you've got the um the sound of the gun going off um yeah um
00:48:22
and is are people screaming are they praying what a BS you know people because of
00:48:29
scream and praying and you know the Imam was doing his speech and then speaker was
00:48:38
on and it wasn't turned off on that time and speaker is on the ground every time he's shooting is
00:48:46
louder and louder and louder you know because every speaker working on that time when he's
00:48:52
shooting is much more loud than normal shooting so I can never forget that yeah I can
00:49:02
never forget that sound in everywhere is you know gun powder smokes too and people's is uh slowly slowly
00:49:15
coming you know lifeless and because it's getting quieter and quieter above me to people's to dying and his second
00:49:24
turn is come back again he's loading his magazines and uh the guns and he's starting again
00:49:36
his second turns come uh I get four more bullets in the first time I have five bullets and then uh second turn I get uh
00:49:50
four bullets which is on uh up uh tie and three more arms so yeah and and he was very close to shooting is the I see
00:50:05
the footage you know GoPro footage and CCTV he was maybe half half a meters away he was just stand top of me to
00:50:14
shooting me serial shooting and then he's Target everybody's you know uh pet shooting to he wants to be
00:50:24
sure everyone's died you know when he's shooting this is when like you're on the
00:50:31
on the ground as part as part of like a mountain of of bodies yeah so he's he's
00:50:35
shooting people in the head at at close range yeah yeah pretty much because he wants to make sure much as people's
00:50:42
killed you know he targeted more you know people you know if you are injured and you are moving he's coming and
00:50:50
killed you that's horrific like yeah M and and I was waiting my turn to die died but my life is spared so I was
00:51:00
praying a lot as I said you know I was only thinking my children's nothing else
00:51:07
on that time yeah what what yeah again you said before it happened like very very very quickly but in in the moments
00:51:16
where you had time to pause and think about what was going on what was going through your mind was it just your
00:51:21
children or were you praying to Allah but you know I was praying if I'm dying
00:51:26
here please forgive to my past and please accept me in your heaven but if I am spared my life you know save my life
00:51:37
and spare my life for my childrens because I don't want they grow up without father as like I
00:51:46
did that was my pray MH but I was on the edge you know I was very clo you know m
00:51:57
1% chance to live I made it you here for a reason I [Music] yes so so that that last lot of shots
00:52:09
where where you're getting shot in the arms like are you sort of are you sort
00:52:12
of pretending to be dead at this point of course you know when you lie down you don't move when you move you die because
00:52:20
he shooting every person who moved because I think he was strategy in injured as much as you can and then come
00:52:30
back second shoot and then kill them One By One MH and then I was pretending you
00:52:37
know lie down like a dead but of course he's you know his hate is you know he's vted his
00:52:50
hate everywhere so so you're not making any noise you're just you're just lying
00:52:55
there as silently you can yeah yeah when he's shoot me uh I didn't even move can
00:53:01
you imagine four bullets entering your body in one time because he did serly shooting and then I didn't
00:53:10
move just in survival mode yeah [Music] mhm I know this is not easy to hear that
00:53:21
but you never wish today you you you are struggling to hear this but I saw all that and imagine my
00:53:33
circumstances well I can't imagine that I know you will be probably traumatized
00:53:37
soon now but imagine us we are firsthand uh witnessed yeah cuz hearing hearing you
00:53:46
you describe your first person account as one thing but actually being there and seeing it with your own eyes is a
00:53:51
different thing together and you can understand in the wars for example in daaz can you imagine how many peop how
00:54:00
many peoples millions of millions traumatized here can you imagine the little childrens can you imagine the
00:54:07
Syria or Iraq Afghanistan why all happened in Islamic countries like these disasters you know
00:54:16
manmade where is this hate is come from [Music] MH and you know sorry it's going to be
00:54:23
politics but Trump wants the by the Gaza to make a holiday he wants to build the happiness
00:54:32
on the blood in Gaza it's not fair so um where you were you were explaining this to me before we went to
00:54:47
the studio so it was mainly men cuz the the women had a separate area in the mosque yes yes is on the they have a
00:54:54
special room some some um this is this was genius by so most of most of the women got out okay yeah yeah
00:55:02
but uh some of them killed because of they are out of the room to helping the injured people mainly on the second turn
00:55:11
he did Kill the woman to who they come from the room to help the injured people yeah so yes so so when the women became
00:55:21
aware of um what was going on and they heard the gunshots they had the the sense to barricade themselves in the
00:55:27
area yeah this is he's tried to be pushing the door but uh they luckily managed to
00:55:36
do uh something put behind the door and holding somebody's and then he couldn't get in and he didn't
00:55:44
want to waste his time so he sced to the other rooms M thanks God you know the woman's is
00:55:51
very brave to the holding the door behind yeah M he she saved loss of life there too I don't know who did it I hear
00:56:00
the story but I don't know who did it but she's very she's also hero too didn't
00:56:06
let the terrorist get in I think there's so many Heroes that day yeah so so so you're lying down on
00:56:15
the ground um we I I'm I'm guessing eventually the The Gunshot stops and then when when do you
00:56:22
realize it's you're going to be okay to move and to oh was uh waiting I don't
00:56:27
know it was that time is like Infinity time but I waiting too long because I wasn't sure he's still there or gone
00:56:38
because I was thinking first time when the gunshots slowly slowly is going away from you I was thinking he finished and
00:56:48
he's gone but when you hear it he's come back I said no not again you know and
00:56:53
after he's gone again I wasn't sure maybe he's doing his you know second
00:56:58
turn turn to come back and I was decided to stay a little bit longer as much I can and then when I start hearing the
00:57:07
the peoples coming and then helping I said okay I'm probably time to get out too ask help and then while I
00:57:17
was waiting you know P coming and helping the the injured PES but I was asking the
00:57:24
help same time too you when when The Gunshot stop what what what noise can you hear your ears must be ringing from
00:57:33
uh yeah it's very loud you know and then boom very quiet just people moaning or no it's
00:57:43
like you know you only hear in the sound of people's dying actually first because
00:57:51
of everyone's away hiding few minutes is you know very quiet only you hear the the people's
00:57:59
begging help MH or praying in preparing this last pray to before foro you hear only
00:58:10
that you know few minutes is like a moment Silence of death You Know M do it make sense you
00:58:19
understand what I mean yeah yeah 100% uh you know because of uh the words is not
00:58:25
enough to explain the moment I can't describe in words yeah who are the first people on the
00:58:36
scene to come and come and yeah rescue the survivors as a placee um the people is come who's uh who did
00:58:45
hide it and run away first get into the mosque okay other Muslims yes other Muslim brothers and sisters and then I
00:58:53
hear that the police coming m they're calling like a checked safe checked safe
00:59:00
you know and then I was asking help sometimes uh as I said to you before too you know I was thinking two people's
00:59:09
help me first but when I look at on the GoPro CCTV footage actually I was myself
00:59:18
stand up walk and then walk all the way to the corridors about around to the that body
00:59:26
is and then asking and begging the help actually it is quite another miracle if I stayed because of the after
00:59:37
police checked all around they stop about seven or 8 minutes anybody's getting and get out M
00:59:46
so if I didn't get out uh and if I stay if I make decision to stay in the mosque
00:59:53
probably I'm the 52nd person to because of loss of Bloods uh you know losing the loss of
01:00:02
Bloods on that time too yes so so when you when you get up from after playing dead and you're
01:00:11
you're walking back through the m to the exit are are you like are you shocked by
01:00:18
what you see or are you just in selfs survival self-preservation mode just thinking about you don't hear noce from
01:00:24
outside because of the bullet entrance is very small you know when I said people I get
01:00:34
injured from my mouths they don't realize how the bullet entry is small here next to my lips they couldn't
01:00:43
believe it MH I get shot in my mouth but they seeing in x-ray you know doctors m
01:00:51
not in first day second day they see so when I uh get the bullets on my legs yes you can see the hole but you
01:01:02
can't see the because of I have a long sleeves jacket and then and then jeans
01:01:09
you know you can see the hole but you don't see the uh damage because of the materials covered
01:01:18
above your skin so people's thinking you're not injured or badly injured kind
01:01:24
of like this too yeah yeah because until you saw a mirror I guess you thought your your face had been like severely
01:01:31
damaged yeah because um in Turkey when you are 20 years old man you go to Army because compulsory and you have the
01:01:43
service for your country and I did 18 months and I had ex um I learned how the bullets damaged the body and our
01:01:56
uh I know the bullets entered very small but when they are get out exit the body
01:02:03
they are exploding M so they damage when they get out not entering when they get
01:02:10
out the body they damage to your body and I was thinking oh God I lost my half of the
01:02:17
face M that's what I was thinking yeah when I feel the bullets in my mind when did you when did you realize You'
01:02:28
survived was it when you walked out of the mosque and saw yeah the emergency services or did you still think that you
01:02:35
might slip away at that point um you remember I said you know the uh few minutes was dead silence
01:02:51
M I was confused on that time am I survived or died and waiting and waiting like that
01:03:01
time is infinity and then I feel you know and then no I am not died I'm still
01:03:14
alive I need to move you know I understand on that time when I try to get out to
01:03:20
the uh people who are above me and then when I was sitting I confused again because when I
01:03:32
looking all myself what's happened I feel yes I survived I understand I am survived but when I sit
01:03:42
when I see the peoples above me you know because they are next to me MH and I see
01:03:48
the all around everywhere is his dead body and then I get in the shock again very quickly and then oh my God what's
01:03:58
happened to me that was the question I [Music] remember and while you on the ground
01:04:05
were you were you holding another another worshipper hand no but it's is you know uh I was
01:04:11
you know s side line and then positioning like this keep my hands like that but I was front of the other person
01:04:19
who was behind me he sad is not healthy so he was dying M you know so and so I don't want to be show The Sounds here
01:04:31
you know I don't want to be copied the sounds but it's terrible to sounds to
01:04:35
listen it oh like blood in the lungs or something yeah horror sounds you know yeah not easy you can never yeah no I'm
01:04:46
so sorry man yeah I can't forget that moments you know and smells you know oh
01:04:57
maybe P doesn't like to hear that but feeling all that body's Bloods and
01:05:03
brains all over your covered because few people's you know above me is they shot
01:05:12
with this head and then all this part is licking all people's under them you know it's not easy I can
01:05:23
never forget that smell of Bloods dead bodies that gun powder smell you know it's not
01:05:37
easy um you mentioned before 137 while you were waiting um before the government arrived you you
01:05:45
mentioned um a dad like playing with his child yeah three years old boy who killed on that day too
01:05:55
can you imagine that 5 minutes ago little boy is very live loving his fathers and giving hug
01:06:04
and kissing it's not easy and I saw him on the next to me when I was waiting and on his father's lap you know
01:06:18
he died and his eyes open and I forget my own pain how can someone do that yeah it's a monster isn't
01:06:29
he he's only 3 years old yeah never foret I mean if he was around that'd
01:06:41
still only be nine oh man that's why I'm going next week Friday to pray for
01:07:07
it can we stop please yeah of course of course this my kids you know M I can't
01:07:33
imagine I saw the other teenagers too it's very bad m I'm so sorry mate it's going to hunt me all my
01:08:13
life I think given it's only six years I think you're doing remarkably well
01:08:18
everything you've experienced personally and also the things you saw yeah I think you should be really
01:08:25
proud of your yourself you've obviously done a lot of work between then and now yeah
01:08:31
yeah yeah and I know it's going to be ongoing for a long time as well yeah yeah but I know that little boy in
01:08:43
heaven and he's happy [Music] now how could How could a human do that to another human it's just
01:08:53
unbelievable yeah M we can carry on okay you're right yeah yeah sorry for being
01:09:02
emotional but you know not at all it's so difficult for me let's see uh at the
01:09:08
completion of the podcast let's see who's got the bigger the bigger amount
01:09:12
of tissues on the side of the desk yeah because you've been um yeah we've been
01:09:16
hanging out all day today I picked you up from the airport and we were talking in the office and uh you were going
01:09:21
through some of this stuff quite sort of mechanically and I suppose you've told
01:09:24
the story so many times it does get less and less emotional but when you talk about it in details I suppose it just
01:09:30
takes you back there um so thanks for that I I I appreciate it because it's been um it's been eye opening uh for me
01:09:38
today I I'd like to think I'm I'm you well across current affairs and things
01:09:42
and I read a lot about what went on but um a lot of the details been shocking for me and I now it's going to be um you
01:09:49
know shocking uh for a lot of people listening to this or watching this as well but it's
01:09:53
um I think it's powerful for us new zealanders to know what's going on yeah
01:09:58
we should get lesson from it and then 100% yeah yeah okay so so you make it outside the
01:10:05
mosque um but by this stage the area is contained with emergency service the police are there policeman is uh blocked
01:10:13
to the old b side to the entry the you know Dean have and they don't let any
01:10:19
car passing because of safety issue and then yeah many cars is also there too but
01:10:26
who hear to the news you know everyone's run to the mosque because of the the
01:10:34
rest of the families of the worshippers you know they all ran to the and and lots of neighborhoods is coming to to
01:10:41
helping to Big crowds and ambulances uh long distance to stop the way goes and and then um when I get out to
01:10:55
the mosque uh some group of people try to help me and then they try to tunicate to my
01:11:04
arm to stopping the blood they couldn't successful when I asked them you know I want to go to
01:11:11
ambulance M and then uh they checking me am I right to walk I said yeah I can walk and then I just want to go
01:11:21
ambulance and then I walk to the ambulance but you know as I said you know they put me sit next
01:11:29
to ambulance and then that little boy is coming with his father's on his lap you know they make
01:11:37
sit and then paramedics say his dad you know and then afterwards you know paramedics when I feel starting pain and
01:11:48
then I was trying to be wake up to you know not conscious unconscious and and then I walk in the ambulance
01:12:00
myself people still thinking you know I'm not bad injured you know because I
01:12:05
can walk and I can talk and I L in the ambulance bed myself and then I begging you look look
01:12:14
I'm getting worse and worse I don't feel very well please take me to hospital I'm
01:12:21
going to be faint you know and then you know from that uh place to public hospital is only normal day less than 2
01:12:32
minutes to driving but that time is like Infinity for me and I keep trying to be awake and
01:12:40
then I was thinking you know I'm dying because I'm losing my energy you know because of losing the
01:12:50
Bloods anyway managed to the first uh emergency room and they took me into the very quickly
01:12:58
in the emergency room and they running and I don't know this is big numbers of the nurse and
01:13:06
doctors around me they talking one is to be opening the blood uh wa for you know uh drips or medicines or I don't
01:13:19
know what they injecting me to my body blood vessels opening so were you one of the the first people to a hospital um no
01:13:28
I don't know actually I don't know because many people's also drive with
01:13:32
their private you know to somebody's car okay I'm not sure maybe one of the you
01:13:37
know probably I am the one of the be you know first ambulance for people too yeah
01:13:44
and then uh I can hear that the big crowds out there like a news you know and then and but I was inside and
01:13:55
they checking my name and surname I told them but I think they didn't understand
01:14:01
very well because of the I can't talk properly and foreign names too you know
01:14:06
not easy topping or telling and then they cut off the all my clots off and then they are talking with me same time
01:14:22
they going to open the drainage on my LS because of internal bleeding they giving to this some I
01:14:29
don't know trips or whatever you know they giving me information same times and they try to get information from me
01:14:36
same times where I get shot where is the bullets blah blah blah and then I try to
01:14:41
be answer it and give information and then of course same sometimes my uh emotion is going worse
01:14:49
and worse realize what's going on and clearing and remembering and flesh backing M the times again it's not long
01:14:58
time ago happened but it's like a repeating again repeating again in my brain and then I begging you know put me
01:15:06
in sleep I'm in pain and then when they are shifting my arms I see same sometimes my old Bloods
01:15:17
coming from my shoulders I show you the pictures it's a big hole it's like a
01:15:23
waterfall and then they said they going to give me katamine or something medicinein ketamine yeah and then they
01:15:32
it's going to be put me in sleep and then I will see different pattern and then maybe see some animals you know and
01:15:42
then they injected me I starting to seeing the very funny shapes and then feel happy and then feel
01:15:52
painless and then I said oh is this heaven I'm really enjoyed I'm happy to come here you know
01:16:01
I feel very happy you told us before they were like dancing smiling monkeys on the roof laughing monkey yeah and
01:16:08
then I see you know they said you can see some animals so I see the animals yes and monkey and they are laughing at
01:16:16
me so it was very happy I remember that time to the sleep you know how how long you you may
01:16:24
not have an answer for this but how long so the shooting was sort of 140ish to say 145 when when did you finally get um
01:16:32
some pain relief drugs so like an hour later no probably not that late but maybe I can say 20 minutes something
01:16:40
like this because I lost time because I can't uh uh what do you call uh suspect
01:16:49
what's the time M I can't understand time you know I lost my time issues you
01:16:55
know but I think it's is take 20 minutes something like this I don't know but I I
01:17:02
should have actually check and never interested to learn I don't know what time I entered it because they recorded
01:17:08
So they should know but yeah but so yes so it's just at least 20 minutes 25 minutes I can say that yes that really
01:17:17
fast yeah probably 2:00 something like this it's for 44 45 happened probably I
01:17:23
am in 2:00 m in emergency room yeah and I I can't imagine how chaotic it was
01:17:31
in the hospital like that afternoon and never experienced like this in history yeah yeah hopefully never again um but
01:17:39
you are you are you able to like talk to the staff and say you know you need to I
01:17:45
need to get hold of my boys or are you not thinking about are you just thinking about selfs
01:17:50
survival self-preservation at that point or yeah I think it's much pretty much
01:17:54
because of I later on I find out lots of people is recording himself and they recording their last word if they die M
01:18:04
I never did like this I never everyone's calling this families this I didn't do
01:18:08
that I don't know why probably I was thinking only myself mhm to go ambulance and go emergency
01:18:16
room yes first things first well you can't make a call to say I'm okay until
01:18:20
you know you're okay yeah yeah so uh you know I didn't record it you know but I
01:18:26
see the people's recording in the mosque you know so so when you get to hospital and
01:18:34
you start getting help are you do you sort of like breathe a bit of a s relief cuz at that point you think you think
01:18:40
I'm going to survive yeah yeah I was because of um I was very worried I will
01:18:45
be I will die on the way in ambulance through through blood loss yeah yeah yeah but when I arrived there you know
01:18:55
um as I said to you my kids is identified me at midnight and then of course um when I was in intensive carees
01:19:08
his nurse wake me up I was of course sleep when he's identified but late night I think they should wake me up to
01:19:15
check me and nurse is wake me up I didn't know she's nurse you know on that time but somebody is saying
01:19:26
beautiful voice said wake up wake up you are safe you are safe you know I was thinking that sounds you know I couldn't
01:19:37
open my eyes but it said like I was thinking that sounds is come from Angel so beautiful very soft sounds wake me up
01:19:47
and I find out that's the later on you know when I come myself is Nurse mhm and
01:19:53
then I looked at myself you see on the pictures you know I'm covered with the
01:19:58
metal things something full of covers lots of cords cables all around me you know and then what's happened to me
01:20:09
questioning and looking I try to be find out what's happened you know um because of the
01:20:15
medication I think is U just waking up and find out and realize what's going on
01:20:21
around me m and then I remember and flashbacks very quickly starting happening and then I start
01:20:32
cry why this has happened to me why this has happened to us MH what did I do that
01:20:39
person and harm me like this and put me in this condition and I start crying and
01:20:48
then nurses I think is because of I'm in the what do you call um panicked you
01:20:55
know and refresh you know living again the same time I think and she put me sleep
01:21:04
again and then I don't know wake up sometimes after but every time when they
01:21:13
wake me up you know I use Morphin quite a lot so they put me sleep I think one of the nurse said 10 days pretty much
01:21:22
they keep make me sleep m because I'm using lots of morphins because of the pain M so pretty much 10 days they use
01:21:31
the sleeping you know in hospital mainly they were put me in sleep yeah yeah and
01:21:37
and when did you first see your your two sons again on yeah second day second day they came
01:21:46
to intensive care I was so happy because of uh after the separations you know we
01:21:54
had a little issue about custody You Know M and then I didn't see the my kids almost one year
01:22:04
plus M and then when I open my eyes and then I saw them next to me and then I did joke if I knew you
01:22:17
guys coming I get shot before I as somebody shoot me before you know yeah that was the
01:22:26
joke I did how did how did that go down did they appreciate it that's a good
01:22:32
sense of humor only you can make that joke no else can you imagine in you are in that
01:22:39
pain and circumstan is full of drugs and you're thinking that joke yeah yeah um
01:22:48
yeah yeah how long was it um like after the shooting before you you smiled laughed again uh like you made that joke
01:22:57
to your kids um but I suppose that was through gritted teeth cuz you're in a
01:23:01
lot of lot of pain but yeah is there is there a moment you can remember where you you sort of smiled and laughed again
01:23:06
for the first time when I saw them yeah when I saw them straight I make it laugh
01:23:10
yeah smile they make me happy as much you know yeah I never remember how they make me happy to come see me yeah you
01:23:21
were in the hospital for a long time I like a month yeah a month what did that month look like so you just recovering
01:23:27
for the first few days then just surgery after surgery yeah yeah that's uh the one of the my surgeons said to me
01:23:35
in first day I had already 10 surgery so and then they put me another four or five surgeries in second days another
01:23:45
four five you know it's pretty much is uh in first week I think it say 20 something like this surgery happened
01:23:54
yeah so that first week you just you're sleeping um you you're having surgery
01:24:00
yeah I suppose you're being um like drip fed bits of information so you're sort
01:24:05
of piecing together you what what happened in the mosque and you're becoming aware of the gravity of of the
01:24:11
situation when day wake me up pretty much is you know uh I was thinking everyone is coming and
01:24:19
killing me Etc so pretty much you know I can't handle with nures or people visiting or something like this they
01:24:26
mainly put me in sleep because of my circum tensions and then mostly you know they wake me up before the surgeries
01:24:35
they giving information and then they put me sleep again and then I go and sleep you know mostly and then they put
01:24:42
me in surgeries you know cuz they have to do that otherwise you know I I can't
01:24:47
survive so they pretty talk about they may chop my you know amputate your arm amputate my yeah amputate my
01:24:57
arm on second day you're learning and then you know tomorrow we're going to
01:25:03
put you in the surgery but big risk about you know if we don't want to take risk if something is going wrong we will
01:25:11
amputate your arm and I said from where from my wrist say no from my elbow no is
01:25:20
it going to be from my shoulder said we have to because we can't save you otherwise and
01:25:27
then um on third days the one of my friends brother-in-law he's the plastic surgeon
01:25:35
so he's coming early in the morning before I get surgery and he's checked
01:25:40
too said don't worry we can save your arm and then he did M yeah um yeah you
01:25:47
were telling me on the the car right here so you've got 52% disability yeah confirmed yeah from the health
01:25:54
my left arms is have a big nerve damage and muscles damage and Bones damage and blood vessels you know they have to make
01:26:05
Eclipse you know uh in time so yeah from from my you know from the shoulder my left
01:26:15
arm uh permanent uh pain m in pain and I use permanent pain reliefs and then of course is in time
01:26:26
you know the arthritis happen to the because of using one is either side you know because they do bonecraft on my
01:26:35
hips and you know surgeries all kind of like this and then your Healthy part is getting worse too yeah when you're using
01:26:44
over you know yeah so it was three weeks after the shooting that the the terrorist had
01:26:51
his first court appearance and um you you went to court you were taken there in a wheelchair yes why um yeah why was
01:26:59
that important for you because I want to show uh that monster to uh how we are strong and we are
01:27:13
united and we are unity even we are badly injured I can be face that to him you know
01:27:24
so I want to make show him you know was yeah we like like were you scared were you
01:27:36
nervous no I wasn't scared I wasn't but I was uh Angry on that time too because
01:27:45
of what he did I was very angry you because he is not brave man to be faced m one to one no he's a coward
01:27:57
yeah he's coward yeah he must have looked feble on the sand like wak and pathetic M yeah so that's why you know I
01:28:05
went doesn't matter you know and uh afterwards you know I had a really very high blood pressures from the
01:28:15
transferring hospital to court case you know court house and then back to work back to hospital you know it wasn't easy
01:28:23
m uh traveling for me so yeah so that was yeah that was the first court appearance 3 weeks after the the
01:28:29
shooting and then you back to hospital then um during the the the trial proper you were there every damn day yeah yeah
01:28:38
yeah I did and then uh and then uh in court case I readed my Victim impet statement M with my sons and my
01:28:51
brother come from Turkey was that hard it was yes yes because it's emotional time
01:29:01
too same time anger you know angry but emotional mostly is emotional but yeah I want to show him and he's
01:29:11
writing all in Manifesto and uh also magazines is about how he hat the Turkish people Ottoman Empire blah blah
01:29:19
blah and I want to show him yes I'm stand front of you I am a Turkish and you shot me nine times you're not bloody
01:29:29
successful to kill me and I stand up front of you you're are covered but I am a brave to stand up
01:29:38
front of you and tell you how you are covered M yeah was was he there or was that video link no no he was on the
01:29:47
behind the uh glass glass yeah yeah so you got to you got to eyeball him yeah yes is only few few M away from him yeah
01:29:57
he was very surprised he shoot me nine times how how do you me when he is here you know oh you shot
01:30:06
me nine times but you didn't sucess to kill me you know I see that his face changed yeah was that satisfying yeah
01:30:15
his his face changed when he hear I am Turkish too you yeah um yeah yes that's six years your
01:30:24
life yeah I mean it's it's a rough road to recovery like sitting in front of me
01:30:29
today like you look yeah if I was sitting next to you on the plane today for example I wouldn't would have no
01:30:34
idea of what you've been through but the um yeah there's the the I suppose the
01:30:38
physical damage from the neck down which is ongoing um but then there's the mental damage as well from the neck up
01:30:44
which is um I pdst so I am using anti-depressants every day and sleeping tablets every night because I can't
01:30:53
sleep without slepping tablets because of nightmares and flashbacks and then of course I have a
01:31:00
Nerf damage so I need to use uh uh you know pain killers for Nerf damage so help me to sleep during the
01:31:10
night yeah how's it how do it change you as a person yeah I'm uh different then March
01:31:19
15 physically you know I was very active M and emotionally I was very friendly and outgoing and have fun with the
01:31:29
friends and entertainments I like to go out and you know but today is you know pretty much is uh I do limited myself to
01:31:41
you know pretty much isolated and then hiding you know most of time stay at home pretty much you know because
01:31:54
of um sometimes you know I don't know but I think it's you know I don't feel
01:32:02
sometimes secured you know understandable yeah because of you know uh I'm living in the city centers
01:32:10
is every time my trauma is you know triggered by ambulance sirens or uh police or fire engine siren so and
01:32:20
you hear that every day maybe few times a day you know so it's not easy sometimes I'm thinking I should go
01:32:29
somewhere like middle of bush and no one or no vehicles around you and then just
01:32:36
isolate it or sometimes thinking uh should have Financial Security and then get some sailing boats and stay in the
01:32:45
boat and then sailing and catch fish and feel the Sea Breeze M and sun shine on my skin and
01:32:58
yeah that's my dream yeah would would that bring you a sense of Peace sorry would that bring you a sense
01:33:05
of Peace yeah you know because of I'm motivated myself like that you know thinking and then I like to go next to
01:33:14
the beach and for relax and walking listening the wave and SE gos you know yeah um I saw a um an interview you did um on
01:33:28
CNN um and there was a line you had you said death would have been more merciful yeah what what does that do do
01:33:36
you still think that now yeah sometimes yeah sometimes yeah actually mhm it's
01:33:46
difficult you know sometimes very judging what I spared my life you know to and sometimes
01:33:57
said you know yes this is the reason but why I'm still in this circumstances why
01:34:03
I'm still in pain M you know sometimes if I died on that day everything's be over for me
01:34:11
finished and then one year later whoever left behind you know they will get used
01:34:18
to and they will carry on the days life and L pain maybe for them that's not true though like look at
01:34:27
the we talked before about your dad losing your dad at 11 you know sometimes you know I can't
01:34:33
control that but you know but of course is you know when you bring in good point
01:34:39
you know when you're thinking that you know yeah and I'm thankful to Allah to
01:34:44
you know spare my life for my kids yeah do you um do you think you leave better you know be your old self again sorry do
01:34:53
you think you leave be able to get to the point where you're your old self again like you were
01:34:57
pre9 I I don't think I don't think so this is my new normal so I'm trying to
01:35:04
get used to my new normal now yeah CU you mentioned um to me on the car ride here that you've got like a short temper
01:35:11
now and you get angry and you can't concentrate and patient yeah things that were simple
01:35:17
before like doing admin and stuff is just too difficult now but um like the man that I've been hanging out with
01:35:23
today he's he's he's a top BL yeah yeah you are you good at like putting a mask on or being on your best
01:35:30
behavior for his uh image is you know uh looking good but behind that image is you know
01:35:39
oh man is the difficulties um I like the smiling face you know but that's all need the image yeah you know
01:35:51
that's all but behind that you know yeah is a big [Music] Stone what about survivors guilt have
01:36:00
you heard of the phrase survivors guilt yeah that's the issue yeah that's the
01:36:06
big issue survival guilt you know and I'm still six years later still feel that you know survival guilt you
01:36:14
know at least every day M thinking one or twice that guil is come M I can't control it yeah
01:36:27
how how do you process the anger eliminate and minimize the socializing M and you know
01:36:38
or keep in touch with people M pretty much you know try the controlling with that or you
01:36:48
know uh less contact with people less problem M that's what I said you know these days at the moment yeah yeah but
01:36:56
that's sort of isolating yourself and it's not not helping me great yeah not
01:37:01
helping me yeah but unfortunately you know I don't know my brain is do that to
01:37:08
me mhm you know and then I see I was seeing the my psychologist and then we were doing EMDR
01:37:19
but it is really difficult processing and refreshing uh actually is helping the facing the my fear but also tiring me
01:37:32
quite a lot so I didn't see my psychologist last few months too since I come back turkey yeah I don't know but
01:37:43
I'm tired mhm I feel like 100 years old now um you know double-edged feeling yeah and I lost my dog previous
01:37:56
year and then relationships break up something like this you know all add on add on yeah and then depressions and
01:38:05
March 15th nearby you know closing time is put me in stress stress and depression too so M yeah time by
01:38:16
time yeah do do you believe in that there that saying that time heals all wounds do do you believe that
01:38:24
do you think it gets easier so say inshah yeah what what about um is is forgiveness part of like being a Muslim
01:38:33
mhm yeah are you ever able to like forgive the terrorist I never think that I'm very angry what he's put what
01:38:52
he did I want to forgive him but I [Music] can't many many other brothers and
01:39:05
sisters did because they lost their son or husbands or brothers or sisters kind of like
01:39:16
this I can say yes but I can say no M like I like this word in New Zealand yeah no you yeah well yeah I mean yeah yeah
01:39:33
he doesn't deserve anyone's I Tred to be kaha stay strong [Music] yes um do you need a break to stand I just
01:39:50
saw your watch it says time to stand you you were telling me um when I picked you
01:39:54
up from the airport that uh you have to like sit for an hour and then your knees
01:39:58
lock up yeah yeah okay yeah stretching M micro movements you know so micro movements we talked about your
01:40:09
your flight when you went back to T Tura yeah turke Tura you had to like get get
01:40:15
up out of your plane SE and walk around the aisles every hour or so cuz your knes lock up it's long hour to flight to
01:40:21
to so I can't stand or stay too long so I need to move when I do traveling in the car
01:40:30
too for example if I go Nelson from here m i stop pretty much every hour M stop for 5 minutes walking and stretching or
01:40:40
if I stop nearby coffee shop or something like this buy coffee and break and then walking kind of like this at
01:40:48
least four times five times stopping between from here to Nelson for example yeah
01:40:56
yeah Al so um yeah what what's your relationship with um jindra adun who was the Prime
01:41:03
Minister at the time she you showed me a photo on your phone she she came to see
01:41:07
you was it the day after or two days after a week one week yeah one week after and she she had the head covering
01:41:13
on hij yeah yeah and also Sunny Bill Williams also come to same day he's a Muslim as well dev has been for years
01:41:19
he's a good fellow yeah and just just Cinda is like a sister for us or mother for us you
01:41:30
know yeah was it re reassuring that the yeah the job she did at the time she did
01:41:35
great you know especially how she's managed you know with uh her calmness you know is amazing and then uh she did
01:41:48
it uh like have a big wing wings and then cover everybody under the her wings so she's Angel M she's really
01:42:01
good persons and when she's learned uh my name in first visit two weeks later she saw me
01:42:12
in K Stevens uh uh youf Islam came to the little concert that's right the charity concert the benef you remember
01:42:21
that I went there too and then just in the see me and oh taml how are you you know call with my name
01:42:30
you know she's very busy woman and lots of things lots of problems around her to solve it but she
01:42:38
remember my name and she remembered everybody's name over there she's very
01:42:43
intelligent and she's very respect uh full woman and you know I respect her too
01:42:53
because of uh she's feeling our pain and she said our Prophet Muhammad's
01:43:01
words if you have feeling little pain on your fingers allbody is feeling that hurt so she said
01:43:11
that we are one and we are feeling and this is our you know uh problem not only yours this is
01:43:20
all nationwide's you know uh disaster so she she did great you know I really respect her I wish she's
01:43:30
carry on but of course uh lots of things going around her too yeah that's interesting cuz I yeah the cnic in me
01:43:39
thinks um you know like jusun and sunny Bell Williams and Prince William as well
01:43:44
did he come part of me thinks oh so he should be king really how you like him was that in hospital he came you no he's
01:43:54
in the mosque he's came to yeah he's came to the mosque and he's very patient
01:43:59
person too he's listen everybody's story when he find out my story too and she's
01:44:07
very he's very interested and then he listened to me maybe we did five minutes
01:44:14
conversation and he's very into listening yeah so so happy to meet with him I'm very hon not meet with him M
01:44:25
MH he has a big heart too yeah yeah P part of me thinks oh you should just let these let these people recover
01:44:35
and you know you think maybe they're just there for the photo opportunity or
01:44:37
whatever so to hear this perspective from a Survivor is um really cool yeah yeah
01:44:44
yeah now how so you're you've been unable to work so you're on um ACC yes I
01:44:51
am on acc because of my circumstances yeah how's how's that do you think you
01:44:55
leave a be to get back to work again you know when you're thinking when you put yourself in my shoes you know
01:45:06
you will see my pain and then I told you that you know I have a very quickly irritated lose my temper very quickly my
01:45:18
anxieties and then my physical disabilities you know I was pained plasterer and I can't do you know cuz
01:45:29
I'm only one man hand one hand man so and pretty much limited limited me to work physically M and a doctor
01:45:40
assessment by ACC every two years they can see that you know I'm not fit lots
01:45:48
of jobs M and then ACC asked me you know they want to put me back work programs I said okay tell
01:45:59
me what I can do then you know look at the reports mhm and I can do this job you I can be Courier I can
01:46:07
driving I don't know you know all you know truck driving or anything you know
01:46:12
Plastering painting building handyman's job nothing I can do physically so yeah
01:46:19
I said you know if you get shot nine times do you think you can go back work did what about um compensation did
01:46:27
you did you there was a lot of fundraisers done at the time I think there was some Red Cross fundraisers oh
01:46:32
that's donation you donations did you did you get some yeah yeah because of that was the big issue to in times but
01:46:39
Assa but that's the donation we didn't get any compensation yeah are you going
01:46:45
to uh it is going to be deadline on the March 14 M uh because of six years years
01:46:54
if you not open low suits against the you know who have the uh failing in the system and then you will lose your
01:47:06
chance to compensation against the you know for example police departments because of the you know gun license
01:47:17
terrorist get two weeks after he's arrived to the New Zealand after after I two weeks arrive
01:47:24
to the New Zealand if I go to the gun license I wonder the police departments G me dead license oh I know you would
01:47:33
have been deported isn't it yeah 100% yeah um something you were telling me um
01:47:39
yeah just before we recorded which um I found quite alarming so with ACC um they
01:47:45
require you to get like regular or semi-regular sort of therapy just to make sure you're still unfit to work
01:47:51
yeah so you basically have to continuously prove you should still be on on the benefit I'm I'm thinking for
01:47:59
[ __ ] sake leave the poor guy alone yeah I have to get my Supply to Medical certificate from GP every 3 months I'm
01:48:08
onfit to work and every two years they do Health assessment by doctor and by psychiatrics and then uh they seeing me
01:48:18
you know they uh the soltion onfit most you know and then they see my circumstances and they understand me but
01:48:29
ACC because of they only thinking you know MoneyWise and they don't care I think
01:48:35
you're you know they're only thinking the budget M and then uh yeah but um
01:48:44
when you thinking to the Australia we are very similar laws Australia give you permanent
01:48:53
uh medical certificate and they pay your conversation compensation M you know without any problem or without any
01:49:02
supplying the every 3 months medical certificate but it was the uh one of the the comments when I was meeting with ACC
01:49:12
M uh case managers and case manager supervisors she said where she's come from uh she's from from England and you
01:49:24
can't see weekly compensation you can't have weekly compensation in England but
01:49:31
you are very lucky I was very irritated and angry how I'm lucky I get shot nine times I was
01:49:40
nearly dying I'm disabilities I'm challenging mental health and you call
01:49:45
me I'm lucky I have weekly compensation I give you all that money back can you give my heal back no I shot you
01:49:56
nine times do you think you will be healthy back to work again oh not like this oh no you know so
01:50:04
how I can be lucky yeah I don't I don't think very disrespectful comment from the ACC
01:50:12
supervisor lady you know yeah that's Le all empathy yeah and I I I don't think
01:50:19
there'd be one single person uh watching the or listening to this that would want
01:50:23
to trade places with you or would call you lucky no nobody nobody would want to experience want to be you know someone's
01:50:31
coming and shot you you're are innocent persons M yeah yeah and can you remember um gez there's
01:50:42
so much to talk about with you um we might have to get you back another time um I haven't even talked about the peace
01:50:48
walk yet oh yeah this is another big Journey for me yeah this is this is mive so was this part of um yeah so the peace
01:50:55
walk you did that you you um sort of retraced the road trip of the the terrorist which was from denan to Christ
01:51:02
Church um so you did that walk over which is how far 3 58 km 358 km so you did that over a couple of weeks um
01:51:11
ending on March 15 yeah at um the Alor mosque yeah why was that why was that important
01:51:20
for you um in the third third year of March 15th uh you know the Cross Church invitations happened in the Christ
01:51:33
Church mhm and in the Christ Church Hall City Hall is uh some uh performance maen from the six years and then they
01:51:49
explained how they feeling in two of them they lost their fathers you know in the mosque too and they
01:51:58
explained how they feel too and then I put myself to and I lost my father when I was young too and then I think also my
01:52:10
children's two boys and also I remember while I watching all that three years
01:52:19
old little boy who died and then the reason was safe country to come here to raise my kids and everybody
01:52:29
did it like this to to come here to New Zealand's made it [Music] home and then I decided I should do
01:52:45
something make awareness and safe country again New Zealand made safe again and clean this hatress on this land and he
01:52:59
drived from donen he plant there and he drive from donen to Christ Church all that way would buy his
01:53:09
car and then I said every single centimeter on this land I will walk and clean this hatress from this
01:53:22
land and I did organize this uh walk with my ex partner M and then this was my idea and then she
01:53:33
helped me lots and then uh we did walk and we decided to also raise the money and then the
01:53:44
children is my you know my soft part M and then cancer kids safety children in gambut Friday I am H for because of I
01:53:57
was challenging pdsd and mental health too and children's uh and youth's mental
01:54:03
health was important for me too after this March 15 happened because of uh many many also youths watch this online
01:54:15
when the GoPro footage happened by terrorist so they are traumatized and I was thinking I can help who need this
01:54:24
support and then media helped me quite a lot to advertising this work also same time and then give a little or and then
01:54:36
we open the uh Facebook page and then we inform day by day to the everybody's
01:54:42
who's following and donating I'm appreciated New Zealand is support a lot
01:54:48
on that time and then we raise about I think 90 something like this ,000 yeah and then divided between the three
01:54:59
Charities to help the childrens and youths yeah yeah it was very different way the experience for me
01:55:08
too and I see I was very worrying beginning to you know the walking uh someone can be protest me or harm me on
01:55:21
the way walking or you know I don't know something can be bad you know I was very
01:55:26
worrying but I see that is you know in the first day I see many peop behind me walk and support me and then
01:55:36
walk in first day many peoples and second day Third Day fourth day all the way is people stopping give me hugs give
01:55:45
me handshakes and then talking lots of nice supportive you know and also one of the old men is
01:55:52
coming and bring us to the foods and cold drinks and giving some pocket money to buy some drinks and something like
01:56:00
this you know helping the Charities think something and yeah lots of big hugs lots of um one of the in I think is
01:56:09
a omaru or somewhere you know little children's I play with you know and then
01:56:17
it's very uh friendly and I play game with them and 90 years old lady on the
01:56:23
way she was one of the my fan waiting to celebrate her birthdays with me and share the birthday cakes with me yeah
01:56:31
yeah it's amazing peoples and I see the lots of good peoples out there you know
01:56:36
and then I said and I proud of myself I did good job and make good awareness and we clear the hatreds from
01:56:45
this land yeah it was amazing time for me yeah and you ended that walk at the um at the elor mosque um very emotional
01:56:55
yeah you you you've been you've been there many you still go there on a regular basis to to elor not really
01:57:03
because of it triggered my trauma all the time yeah I was going to ask that if if it could ever be like a place of um
01:57:10
Peace again for you or MH because you know um you know I go turkey M uh try to go every year and
01:57:23
couple months I stay when I save my all energy when I come back as drain my energy very quickly especially when I go
01:57:31
to mosque you know and uh so I decided maybe I should stop the going to do this Mosk because of uh ret traumatizing me
01:57:43
and then but when I go in Turkey to mosque I don't have any problems like that but only only when I go to the D
01:57:53
elor mosque is uh triggering my trauma that's so understandable so on what occasions now
01:58:05
is your mind peaceful so you when you're when you're on medication to help you
01:58:09
sleep um what else like is there any activity you can do where you're in a state of mindfulness and you know you're
01:58:15
not thinking about the horrible things I'm patient with football so I love play
01:58:21
football or watch football of course I can't play any more normal running football because of my uh niece's
01:58:29
problem uh but I find last couple years I do walking football in hille domain in
01:58:36
Christ church and then last year I went to Nelson for the tournaments who came from Australia and Nelson team and
01:58:44
Christ Church team so we were going again to the 21st March to the Nelson for a few days the tournament but every
01:58:54
week Wednesday night I play Walking football in hoswell domain with socializing and playing MH so that's a
01:59:03
mindset is you know with football I only forget the time and thinking on that time you know one hour I do break from
01:59:14
everything you're in the moment yeah yeah I only only my brain stop on that time MH only only the football time it's
01:59:22
not much of a rest is it no no because it's every time tick tick tick tick tick
01:59:28
you know have you found as time passes so it's six years now is it getting bter
01:59:34
and bter or not noticeably not noticeably I can say that uh as I said to you you know when I
01:59:41
go to Turkey Turkey to having time with my mother with my brothers and siblings and because I grow up in the big
01:59:50
family and then that's uh I have lots of supports there my childhood friends my
01:59:56
cousins we are really big you know community in Turkey F here and then when you're looking up here I'm pretty much
02:00:05
myself because my son's teenagers you know the teenagers behaviors they don't
02:00:10
want to spend time with the parents you know we know nothing next to them and then they want their own lifestyle so
02:00:18
they don't want to see you often pretty much I am lonely here mhm and then I
02:00:23
don't have a relationship I'm single person and then my niece is coming here
02:00:28
for support she's living with me but she's also you know going to study school because I needed time off from
02:00:37
her sometimes you know I can't handle the with you know at the moment these days so
02:00:46
yeah oh man I hope things get better sorry lots of dramas in my life no no I'm not accepting your apology uh I
02:00:55
think I think you should be yeah you should be proud of yourself it's a lot that you've you've be it's so much
02:01:00
adversity thank you you're still and you're doing well yeah thank you um
02:01:05
yeah as as the man who was trying to sell me a rug in estan said to me he he said sometimes I try and make business
02:01:11
sometimes I try and make friend today I try and make friend and um that's that's
02:01:15
how I feel about this the podcast is business but um um yeah you're a mate and uh when I'm in chist church I'm
02:01:23
going to take that offer and catch up with you and have some Turkish too yeah I visit you here now so your turn to
02:01:27
visit me in chch 100% um is there any any any final words you'd like to you'd
02:01:33
like to leave with any messages that you'd like uh new zealanders to know or
02:01:37
anything you want to part on I would like to say thank you again to all New Zealand to supporting us all
02:01:46
that time and let's come together and we are one and and let's do it New Zealand safe
02:01:53
again for our future generations and I love you all great place to end it I my friend Tam thank you so much for coming
02:02:07
on the podcast you're welcome thank you very much