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When it comes to politics, I'm I'm real light on politics. Um, >> it's all right. Most most people are.
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>> My thing uh with the podcast is just getting to know sort of the person
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behind the job. But I have got a young kid out here called Henry Blakeman who you met just before 13 years old from Oi
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College. >> You're shaping a m >> Can can he come in here and ask a few
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questions? >> Yeah. Yeah, of course. >> Okay. He came in a few weeks ago um for
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a school trip and we got to talk about politics and he just seemed really smart.
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>> And so you so you've signed him up. >> He might take your job full time.
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>> Henry Blakeman, Willie Jackson. >> Henry, nice to meet you. >> Nice to meet you. You learning moldi?
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>> Uh yeah, a little bit at school. >> Kai Kaiqu. >> Well, I've got a lot to talk about.
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>> Got lots of points to talk to you about today. First thing I want to talk about
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is a bit of background. So, how did you really get into politics? I know you had
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was it um a career in media before you went into politics? >> Yeah, I suppose I got really into I was
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a union official, a union person. So, when you're in the unions, it's like all
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politics. It's like, you know, politics is around you all the time. So, I was
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very young. Like, I'm old now, 64, but when I was 21, I was a full-time union
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president. And so it was like uh and then so so it was just it felt like I was in politics all the time but I I I
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didn't actually go into formal politics until I was about 35 36. I I stood and
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then I finally got in when I was 38 and and I always wanted to go into politics cuz you know it's like the unions you
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want to help people. You want to advance things for your people but for your community. So those are the main reasons
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why I went in. >> Yeah. Uh, I believe you went in with Manamo Tuhake was your first
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>> party and then you formed the Alliance. Um, so what was it like being in sort of
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a smaller party compared to now you're in Labour? That's one of the biggest
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parties in New Zealand. >> Yeah. Well, I never thought I'd be in Labour. I'd always thought I'd be in the
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Maldi party cuz Manuhaki was like the first Mai party in um in in parliament. So in government. So I was part of that
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and ended up with Sandra Lee and with the leadership and all that sort of stuff. And it was and we were in the
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alliance and we were really I really liked it cuz we were like with the working class and look look after the
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people who were in the communities and I was with people like Llaya Hari and and
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Jim Anderson. It was really a a privilege and yes it was a smaller party but we felt that we we had a bit of
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influence and then we started working with Labor. Labor were our enemies because the so the alliance actually
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were people who were sick of the Labor party. So that's how the alliance formed
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and then the alliance came back and joined the Labour Party. >> And then it was Helen Clark in 1999.
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>> That's right. She was our prime minister and Jim Anderson, who was our leader,
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became the deputy prime minister. >> Oh, that's really cool. Yeah. >> Um and then you moved up to Labour. You
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had multiple portfolios under Jinder, didn't you? >> That's right. Yeah. I did Maldi affairs,
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moldy development, and broadcasting employment and so it was quite a honor to be with Justinda. You like Jinda?
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>> Yeah, Justinda is a great person. >> Yeah. I'm glad relieved to hear that.
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You never know when you come on radio when you're talking about just something
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>> a lot of negative stuff. Yeah. Um was it hard to have multiple portfolios or was
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it a bit more stressful? >> Oh, that's what you do these days if you're lucky if you're lucky enough. But
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Oh, no. No. That's what you go there for. You know, you go there for to to do
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the work. And so for me was a great opportunity for Maldi, for workingclass people
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>> to advance things for them. So I used to roll out different programs for workers,
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for MAI, for the different communities. So, it was great, great privilege. >> That's good. Uh, we had David on, was it
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a couple of weeks ago? Um, and he said that he'd rather have a smaller government with less ministries and more
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people having multiple portfolios. Would you agree with that? >> No, not not necessarily cuz I get
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anything coming from home to have another think about it. There's not much I agree with him on, but I'd never
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look at it. >> Yeah. Because in politics, it always feels like no matter what the opposing
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party's putting out, you have to disagree with it. So, have you ever really seen like a bill that National or
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any of those people have put out that you agree with, but you have to disagree because you're an opposition MP?
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>> Yeah, that's a good question, but no, the reality is there are a number of
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bills that we agree with National on. So, you might not know this, but uh probably 85% of the stuff that goes
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through Parliament, National and Labor agree on. >> Oh, yeah. In terms of David Seymour, him
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and I um we we did actually he did a I don't like complimenting him, but he did
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do a terrific job, Dom, I don't know if you remember, with the youth in Asia
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stuff, >> which was landmark stuff. So, I give him his credit on that. He stood his ground
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and uh that that's where that was before he became too infamous. I was going to
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say famous, but but in those days, he did a terrific job and that was one of the most I think it's the best thing
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David Seymour ever did. So, you know, uh here's the thing. Look, people ask me
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about David, would I work with him? I work with anyone who will advance the lives of um uh average New Zealanders.
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So, if that was David Seymour and and Mai, working-class people, women, uh I would work with him because uh it's not
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about me and him, it's about the people. >> Oh, that's cool. Um you said David was
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quite infamous. Are you glad to are you glad that the treaty principles bills over?
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>> Glad to see the back end of that. >> It was terrible. It was a terrible bill.
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And he should have known better. I got kicked out of the house on that one because Yeah, because because I called
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David a liar and actually I did it twice. I got kicked out twice anyway and and but he can handle it because this is
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politics, you know, and uh he's give it to me as well as I give it to him. So,
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um I don't resile on that because um uh as I've said to Dom, you know, he's
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trying to change the treaty of Wangi >> and then he's trying to say no, I'm not.
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And I'm saying yes, you are. You're trying to change artic what's called
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article 2 and article three. >> Oh, yeah. Um we talked a bit about uh Winston Peters in Palestine before. Um
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so if you were the leader, if you were prime minister, if you had the decision, would you recognize Palestine as a
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state? >> Well, 100% 100%. Particularly now because it's I think it's Look, I I I
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understand both sides. You know, I did a You won't know this, but I'll tell you.
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Um I did a a a show a few years ago. What was it called? DNA detectives. And I found out I had a bit of a Jewish
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background. >> So because people go, "Oh, you hate the Jews." Well, I actually I found, you
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know, I get teased by some of my mates and I still I'm quite, you know, I'm no
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hater of the Jewish people at all. I think uh um you know met many of them and I had had a bit of a background and
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found that out in my DNA which I thought was fascinating. It's not about that.
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It's about do do we do this to people every single day, kids getting murdered
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every single day um starving and thousands and thousands. It's just this ter it's just terrible. And you know,
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people go, "Oh, do you support the Hamas who talk they what they did was terrible, but too wrong? Don't make it
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right." >> Yeah. Uh, what would recognizing Palestine actually do in terms of other
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than being a symbolic gesture? How would that help stop what's happening? >> Well, I mean, probably might not stop
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what's happening, but it would give them some status in terms of uh um uh the
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real world and and recognition that they haven't had. it would, you know, but I
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mean Trump's talking about stopping it and I saw something yesterday or or today about him, you know, being quite
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adamant he can he could get a ceasefire, but he has been adamant before. >> And is it the same thing with Ukraine?
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>> You see the same thing with Ukraine? You never you never know. You're not a Trump
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fan obviously. >> No, not really. >> He's quite contradictory in what he
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says. >> Yeah, I mean most people are in those areas. My view is if he can get anything
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to happen uh good on him. You know he he can be an enigma sometimes but um you know if if he can if he can get any sort
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of ceasefire or anything over there I think the whole world will be relieved. >> Yeah. Um the thing I found quite
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annoying about Trump was he was like there was the Mormon church terrible Mormon church shootings over in the USA
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and then he posted stop all of this violence and then he's mobilizing the US
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military into some of the democratic states. So it's not much of a democracy
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anymore. >> No. Well, you know, it's >> Yeah, it's incredible over half of
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America voted for him, right? >> Yeah. >> I mean, it's, you know, I mean, that was
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a such a resounding victory. >> I was quite surprised because I thought everyone was tired of Trump and Trump
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became the president. >> Yeah. No one I think what they're tired of, they're tired of sort of treadmill
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politicians, you know, they want they want something out of the box and that's
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what Trump is. He's something out of he's something different. Oh, my favorite over there was always Bernie
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Sanders. You heard him? >> No, I haven't. >> He's he's like about 83.
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>> Oh, yeah. >> 83. And he's a green um greeny lefty. Fabulous politician. He stood against
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Hillary Clinton, I think, a few years ago. >> Yeah. >> Talking about the Greens, uh Khloe
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Swallbrick from Memory, she made a comment which was something like from the river to the sea, which David said
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basically meant wipe out all the Jews. Um so what do you think about that comment? No, I No, look, I think you
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have to do >> things Chloe um you have to do things to support the the what what they're doing
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in Palestine. That's what she was doing. And I I support I support a lot of what
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Chloe talks. She's I think she's a local MP here, isn't she? >> Yeah.
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>> You actually turned up in a in an E vehicle today. >> That's right. It's my wife's vehicle,
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actually. Couldn't I couldn't find my keys for the other one. >> Um I wanted to talk about the cost of
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living. So, everyone's sort of talking about the cost of living and how everything's expensive. So, I don't want
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to talk specifically about the cost of living, but maybe one of the solutions. Chloe was talking about this one as
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well. Uh, it is, if I'm correct in saying it's likely Labor will bring in a
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capital gains tax in the next election. So, do you think a capital gains tax would be a good thing for New Zealand?
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>> Oh, you that's a that's a tough question, that one. You know, we we have
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not released our policy yet, Henry. Are you going to be the first interviewer to
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get us to Chippy, our boss of glue to have my head if I talk about releasing a capital gains tax? Let's let me just say
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we are talking seriously about a capital gains tax at the moment. So, but I can't
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say when, where, or how because um well, we just can't because it's it's it's a
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policy and and it is a very serious issue. Uh and it's not just with the MPs, it's with all our members at the
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moment. So, we'll be we're we're all discussing it right now and uh um and I
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can't say whether it's going to come in or not, but it's a very very serious
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issue that's on the table with Labor at the moment. >> But what about you personally? Do you
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think that a capital gains tax time >> cuz um politicians like politicians like
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David, they'll say what they want? >> Um so, if you were like David, >> would you say that? Well, you're not
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like David. >> No. Well, put it like this. I'm like myself. >> Okay.
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>> Okay. and you've asked me a question and I think that uh for me just so you've
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asked me the question I've always been a supporter of of something like a capital
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gains tax I came from the alliance that's what we were talking about in the late '9s a fairer wealth distribution in
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this country where where people like Dom who's very rich multi-millionaires pay
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what they should be paying you know you know like where you know so so that's
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what that's all about so are you asking me about it absolutely I've been a
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supporter of that that's no secret. So I don't have to follow David's line. I'll
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just follow my own line and tell you I'm I I am a supporter of a of a fairer tax
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system. Um and I'll be putting that view um over the next few weeks. >> But you think it will get a bit
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complicated because a lot of people on the right say a capital gains tax would complicate the tax system.
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>> Well, that's what they will always say. But that our job will be to make it
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simple and easy for the country to understand. Um because you know they're running out of uh ammunition. on the
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right. You see, they're only right. So, so you know what they're doing? Oh,
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they're going to bring in a capital gains tax. Oh, that marry party, they're
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all they're all maniacs. They're like terrorists, right? They're like terrorists, you know.
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They're out of control. Oh, they they'll come over and they'll beat you up or
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something, you know. You know, it's like the right wing, you know how the right
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wing are. You know, I mean, you know, so so so it's those are the lines they run.
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you know, the the the New Zealand's going to be run by the terrorists and and you've all going to be cuz they run
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out of lines, but it it'll be easy for people to understand. And if we do it
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and if we do a um a deal with the Mai party, um I don't think that's anything
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for anyone to worry about because the National Party has done deals with the Moldi Party before, Party Moldi before,
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they did one for nine years. Um the only ammunition they really have anymore is blaming the Labor government and past
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people for what they've done like John Key. >> That's right. >> Well, the cost of living is uh got a
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cost of living problem because of John Key, right? That's what they're saying.
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Or is it because of co or is it because of labor or is it you know is it because
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of Jinda? It's everything apart from them, right? They need they need to look
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at themselves. They're in charge. They make their own decisions. We've got a
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cost of living um crisis because of the decisions being made by this prime minister and Nicola Willis.
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>> Yeah. Uh just moving back to we were talking about the capital gains tax. Um
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Khloe Swick in an interview said something like with a capital gains tax we're going to end poverty and shrink
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wealth gaps which ending poverty with a tax is not that realistic. But if we were being a bit realistic, what would
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you hope to achieve if you brought in a capital gains tax? >> Oh, you I think it Well, you're very
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cunning today. We're told we're back on capital gains again. I've already told
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you. Last one, Henry. >> Henry, you're really really That just about got me there. Well, let's just
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hope that the talks go well over the next few weeks, Henry. And I don't want
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to be given my opinion here. I'll save it for the talks and uh um and I'll be
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putting a view about my own personal position, two members and two MPs. But thank you very much, MP. I said MP, I
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meant Henry. But you'll be a you want to be a future GP. >> Yes, definitely. I'd love to be a
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politician. >> Oh, lovely. What? What? What party? >> I don't really know yet. I'm quite
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young. I don't want to say I'll be with this party and then I'm stuck in an echo
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chamber. >> Imagine. Well, that's right. Good on you. Keep your keep your choices. Yeah.
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>> How did he do, Willie, Jackson? >> Very good. Very >> 10 out of nine out of 10. Only I would
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have given you 10, but you irritated me. You kept you kept coming back to that capital gains.
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>> There's always room for improvement. >> I would have given you 10, but I thought
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you tried to trick me at the end there with the capital gains question. when when you went on Q&A with Jack Tam in
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2022 for um an interview about the R&Z TV and ZZ merger, I think you called it
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called it I'm a disgrace or something like that. What do you make of Henry? Is
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he a disgrace? >> Oh, look, he could take Jack's job to Byron. There's no doubt about it. You
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like Jack Tape? >> Uh I don't really watch a lot of the >> very very good very good interview.
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>> I watch a lot of the six news though stuff comes from. >> Yeah. Good on you, Henry.
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>> Enjoy your life too, Henry. >> Nice to meet you, mate. Hey, Henry
00:14:53
Blakeman, get out of here.