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Tell us about Kelsey before December 9, 2019. Just a a girl that loves the outdoors. A farm girl.
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>> Yeah. Ended up getting a job on a boat. 5 years in one day. What do you do when
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you're looking at the thing that's going to kill you statistically? The slowest 2
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minutes of my life. >> Do things just go dark immediately or you're conscious the whole time?
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>> Yeah. Yeah. You got to laugh through it. I've cried enough about it. Got to get
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some laughs out of it. >> Being called brave or courageous or inspirational.
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>> I'm just trying to survive, man. First 10 days I was in ICU and for those 10
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days they wouldn't tell my family whether they thought I was going to survive. I had 45% of my body burnt. Um
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yeah, trauma would do that to you I suppose. >> Runners only with Dom Harvey and Kelsey
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Waghorn. Good day Kelsey. >> Hello. How is it? >> Good. Um do I start singing the Metro
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Station song? It feels like every time Do you hear that a lot? That must have haunted you through your teenage years.
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Yeah, in high school I used to get it quite a lot [laughter] which was quite funny. But um yeah, I had a friend who
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used to sing it to me all the time and yeah um he actually died in while I was in high school and so every time I hear
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that song I think of him which is kind of nice in a way I suppose. >> A yeah.
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>> Oh what a down buzz to start with. >> Yeah. Sorry but [laughter] >> yeah yeah. Um how are you? Thank you for
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coming on my podcast. Really appreciate it. It's great to meet you in person. I
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feel like I know you uh through following your um Instagram channel for the last few years.
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>> Yeah. Um, it's taken quite a bit to get used to cuz people come up and ask me
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specific questions and it's like I'm racking my brain like, "Who are you? Who
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are you? Oh my god, I've forgotten who you are." And then it's like, "Oh yeah,
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I follow you on Instagram." You're like, "I don't know you." [laughter] So, it is
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a bit weird like Yeah. people know a lot more about me than I remember. I've told
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people. >> Yeah. So, tell us about um Kelsey before December 9, 2019. >> Um,
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>> who who who was she? just from what I can see on Instagram, um just a a girl
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that loves the outdoors, um a farm girl, um just a girl that appreciate appreciates nature and uh just getting
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the most out of life. >> Yeah. Yeah. Mostly just that. I um did marine science when I was at school in
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uni. And so um yeah, ended up getting a job on a boat cuz that's what I wanted
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to do. I just wanted to be on the sea and uh nailed that. got a job on a boat um and worked on those boats for yeah
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five years in one day and it turned out to be one day too long. [laughter] >> Yeah. And how was your uh mental health
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prior to the uh December 9? >> Good. >> You get through life pretty good.
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>> Yeah, it was fairly uneventful. Um I did have a couple of things um happen which yeah upset the
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apple cart a couple of times but um nothing quite as monumental as yeah what happened on December night.
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>> Yeah. Nothing could be as monumental as that. What what were they do you want to
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get into them or not really? >> Uh so one of them I was on a boat fire uh or boat that caught fire um and so
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that actually ended up burning to the water line and sank. Um there were 60 people on board including the crew. Um
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and I was the second to last off. Um and then uh it was April before the eruption. Uh I had a passenger fall on
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another island um not island and um he actually ended up dying unfortunately. So um
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>> a passenger had a fall. >> Yeah. Off um Whale Island. >> So um yeah that's more in Shore than
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White Island. So yeah, that happened April before the eruption. Um, but other than that, I hadn't really had anything
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too major or exciting happen. >> Exciting is an interesting word. Um, that's a hell of a story. For the first
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time ever on my podcast, I even got a box of um tissues. I thought that'd be
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that'd be um necessary. Do you maybe for me more than you, >> how like how's your emotional state?
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Like do you I mean I I really appreciate you coming around here today and um like
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revisiting this cuz I'm sure every time you do it uh you have to brace yourself
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cuz it's not an easy thing to talk about. >> Um >> or is it can you sort of just get
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through it on autopilot? >> Yeah, it's a bit weird like I probably shouldn't be able to talk about
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it. Um cuz yeah, usually um like with PTSD people can't really talk about their trauma which is totally fair
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enough. Um, I am lucky that I can talk about it with kind of little to no emotion. Um, there's sort of
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>> quite a bit of humor. >> Oh, yeah. A lot of dark humor. [laughter]
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>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, yeah, I do have to kind of keep that quite tame cuz, um, obviously I'm not
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the only one involved in this, so I would hate to upset anyone or someone take offense to something I've said. So,
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I do have to kind of censor my humor uh online. Um, which is quite funny. It's
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[laughter] um cuz there's a lot of um yeah, pretty dark humor in my sort of private chats with my friends and
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family, but yeah, I try to tame it a little bit um publicly, I suppose. >> Yeah. Well, there's a couple
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[clears throat] of other people I've had on the podcast. Um there's a guy, Joseph
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Sullivan, who's um an Olympic gold medalist, an America's Cup winner, now
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is a firefighter, and he said they get by with black humor. >> So, on their way home from events,
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they'll you make jokes about it. Another guy I had on the podcast is um Billy Evans who's the former police
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commissioner of Boston and he was there when the bombing went off. >> Yeah.
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>> And he said often after after like um you know murder or tragedy um you know
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you cops will be seen like laughing at the scene and members of the public will be like you what the [ __ ] are they
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laughing about? It's inappropriate. But he said that's just a common coping
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mechanism. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um that definitely got me through um not the sort of early
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hours cuz there wasn't a lot to laugh at in those um first few hours of um after
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the eruption happening, but um yeah, definitely hospital that got me through a lot of um pretty [ __ ] times. And um
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yeah, even still still make a lot of jokes about just anything and everything. Nothing's um sort of I guess
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off topic um in my family especially. So yeah, it's um yeah, quite funny having
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to sort of sense myself out in public cuz yeah, I would I'd hate for someone
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to take offense to it or think that I'm being insensitive, but then it's kind of
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like it's yours your life. >> I'm involved in it as well. So it's not
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like I'm just like yeah, being a dick. I just that's how I deal with it. It's
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just you got to laugh through it. I've cried enough about it. Got to get some
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laughs out of it. >> Where where does that come come from? Is that in your DNA or is it just like how
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you were raised with your family? >> Um pro. Yeah, definitely both. Um, yeah, and I like to have a laugh. So,
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yeah, I think it's just, yeah, it's been ingrained into me from day dot, I think.
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>> So, you're still the the you're still the same person? >> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I guess, yeah, I I was probably more extroverted beforehand and I'm
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probably a bit more introverted now. Um, yeah, trauma would do that to you, I suppose. [laughter]
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Changes you a little bit. But, um, yeah, I guess still at heart, still the same person, still find the same things
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funny, still get the same joy out of all the things I used to love, still want to
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be on the sea, still want to be outside, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. >> Yeah. Oh, you got such a good attitude.
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Is is there any there any words that you hate? Like um being called brave or courageous or inspirational?
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>> Yeah. Oh, I don't hate them. I guess it's just a bit hard like um like a few
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of my friends who know the like all the nitty-g gritties about what happened. Um
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there's a couple of them which always say like like use the word hero and then
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I get people being like you're so positive um and you're so yeah inspirational and stuff and it's like
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I'm just trying to [ __ ] survive man. Like I'm [laughter] not trying to be any
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of these things. I'm just trying to like stay alive and it seems to be quite hard
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for me. So, um or not, I suppose cuz yeah, I keep kind of dodging bullets which left, right, and center. So,
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>> yeah, there's this running joke in my family now where it's like um if the
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apocalypse happens, it's going to be me and the cockroaches. [laughter] >> So, I don't know if that's a good or a
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bad thing. >> How long was it after the um after the um the explosion on White Island that
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your family could see you in hospital and make jokes? Did they sort of wait for you to make the jokes before they
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started? Um well for the first um I think it was 10 days I was in ICU and for those 10 days they wouldn't tell my
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family whether they thought I was going to survive or not. Um cuz obviously you don't want to give false hope in those
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sorts of situations cuz so much can go wrong with burns. Um and those early days and those real sort of um acute
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moments like yeah they didn't want to give my family false hope cuz it was it
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was pretty grim. Um so for the first 10 days there's definitely not a lot of
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joking. Um, even if there was, I couldn't tell you what was going on cuz I was so high on drugs. I didn't know
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what was real and what wasn't. I was seeing a lot of stuff and I remember a lot of stuff from ICU, but none of it's
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real. [laughter] >> Wow. >> So, that's very weird. >> Just the morphine.
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>> Yeah. Just Yeah. Hell a lot of Oh, ketamine. I think a lot of it was. So,
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um, now even when I have surgeries, I'm like, don't give me ketamine. >> Ketamine. But hospital grade, not
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festival grade. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it was like the good stuff. But
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>> the really good stuff. >> Yeah. But yeah, I was seeing some wacky
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[ __ ] And Yeah. So now every time I have a surgery I'm like don't give me
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ketamine unless I need it. And they're just like okay. >> Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I want to get into
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that. We'll get into that in due course. Just because it seems astonishing to me
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that you can be um you know coherent and conscious all the way through the 90-minute boat ride and through the
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explosion, see your family, recognize your family, um to then being in a situation for the next couple of weeks
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where it's touch and go. So I want to get into that. I'm sure you've learned a
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lot about Burns over the last um you few years, but um first of all, have you seen the Netflix movie?
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>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Yep, I have. >> Tell me about that watching experience.
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>> Um >> did you watch it when it first came out or did they send you like an advanced
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copy or >> They sent me an advanced copy cuz I kind um I like I've said to you like with all
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the um court cases and stuff like I'm just trying to protect my own skin. Um,
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so I do like to be able to see it ahead of time so that if there's anything in
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there I'm like, "Oh, that could be misconstrued or taken the wrong way and
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um I guess yeah, be used against me or one of my colleagues um I do ask if I can see it so that if there's any
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changes I would like made to clear things up then um yeah, I do that." So they did that for me which was really
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cool. >> Um >> yeah, and so did um [sighs and gasps] >> I can't remember the name of it now. the
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one that I did in the first year for I think it was TV3, >> right? >> I can't remember now.
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>> Yeah. Um >> yeah, knowing that you were coming around today, I watched that a couple of
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nights ago. >> Um just me sitting here. I've been to W Island before many, many years ago, but
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I've got no other connection to it really, and it was a hard watch for me. >> So I can't I I can't imagine you what
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it's like watching it when you're involved with it and this is your reality now.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who Who do you who do you sit down and watch it with?
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>> Uh I'm really naughty and I do it on my own. [laughter] >> I'm one of those people. I'm like if I'm
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going to be triggered, if I'm going to cry, I'm going to do it in the privacy
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of my own room where no one can watch me. So I >> [ __ ] you're a tough cookie, aren't you?
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I sort of imagine >> or I'm just a [ __ ] >> I'm just [laughter] I'm just a stubborn
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[ __ ] really. Um >> I think I think you're just made from some tough stuff.
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>> I just Yeah. I don't know. >> Right. Is it So is is it a hard watch
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for you? Um, I guess I don't know. I I don't really remember it now. I've only
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watched it once and I kind of keep saying cuz like people ask like, "What do you think of the Netflix
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documentary?" I'm like, "Oh, I couldn't remember. It was fine." Um, but I guess
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the whole way through it, I was um more critiquing what was fact and what wasn't
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the whole way through it. So, it was just like I guess I probably wasn't really paying attention to the whole
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thing. It was like, "Yep, that fact's correct. That's correct. Yep, that's
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correct." like just kind of fact checking the whole way through it. Um, but there is one bit of footage in there
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which kind of took me by surprise and it's um from from my group from one of
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the girls in my group and um I think I might be wrong so hopefully I'm not wrong but um she basically as we went to
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run um for cover she put her phone in her pocket and accidentally hit record and so the whole thing is recorded and
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um they put the first little bit of that in there and I've been like specifically
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told by the police don't watch that piece of footage. footage because it's
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pretty horrible. Like you can't see anything but you can hear everything, which obviously is not great. Um, and I
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get triggered really bad with noises and audio. And so that came up and I instantly knew what it was. And I was
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just like, "Oh my god, oh my god." And I just was like, "Do I shut the computer?
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Do I block my ears?" And so I kind of didn't focus for probably the next
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couple of minutes. And thankfully I didn't put all the really nasty stuff in, which is really, really good. Um,
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>> what's what I I mean, you may not even know what the real nasty stuff is. What?
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like screaming or >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, the whole the whole I think there's about 20 minutes of footage of
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the whole thing. >> Um and you can just hear everything and me yelling at my group. Um but yeah, so
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[clears throat] >> yeah, you you say yelling at your group, but you um you still had your like your
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work hat on. >> Yeah, I was working which is which is [ __ ] astonishing to me because I
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suppose there's there's there's two types of people and you don't know if
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you're going to be a fight or flight person until you're in that situation.
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But the fact that you were like um worrying about your group and not thinking about self-preservation.
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[ __ ] I mean, does does that make you proud of yourself? Makes me proud of you.
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>> Um I don't know. Like >> it's it's incredible. It's incredible. I
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guess >> you're in the same position as all these other people that you don't know from a
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bar. So >> yeah. Yeah. I um I have a friend who um she's adamant that she wants to tell the
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world like what I did and um she keeps Yeah. like I said, saying the h word hero and stuff and it's just like it I
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don't know. It just it feels weird. It's just I don't know. I I did what I
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thought anyone else would do and just reacted to the situation as fast as I could and
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I don't know. It Yeah, it is what it is for me and it's not something that I
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brag about or talk about or >> even think about. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's just it just is what it
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is. And I kind of just Yeah. I don't know. I don't I don't know. It just
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feels weird to talk about and it just feels weird for people to be like, "Why
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don't you tell people this?" And it's just like why would I why would I walk
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around being like, "Hey, look, this is what I did." And it's just like it's
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just weird. >> I don't know. It just feels like I'm tooting my own horn and it's just it's
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wrong. And >> and I mean like so many people did so much that day. Like people did way more
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than what I did. Um, and yeah, like I mean the pilots that went in there when everyone was saying it's too dangerous
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and they were just like and just went on the island. Um, like I mean they're my
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heroes like they didn't bring me home, but [ __ ] I'm so grateful for them. Um,
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yeah. And like obviously the skippers of my um company who came back for us. Um,
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yeah, they are the ones that I would Yeah. hold up a flag for them any day. >> Yeah.
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>> Yeah. Well, I think Yeah, I think it's heroic. [laughter] >> Thank you.
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>> So, you your your Instagram it's it's amazing because you're you're quite a
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regular um poster on Instagram. >> Oh, am I? >> I think so. Yeah. Um and you scroll back
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and it's um I I feel like it gives an interesting insight into um you the person you are, the person you were and
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the person you are now. And there's not a lot of difference between the two.
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There's still that black humor there. Um you still seem to love the outdoors,
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love the fresh air, love animals. Yeah. >> Um, but if you go back to October 2019,
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um, on your Instagram, there's a photo of White Island with Steam coming out
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and the caption, "Not bad. Good." >> Yeah. >> Which is It's great.
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>> Yeah. >> It's great. So, um, then there's an appreciation post in late November 2019
00:16:03
for your dog. You say, "So much love for this little punk." >> Yeah.
00:16:06
>> And then, um, then there's sort of radio silence on Instagram until, um, late
00:16:10
January 2020 from hospital. It's just a a random photo of a landscape um with a
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caption thanking people. Can I can I read some of this out? >> Okay. >> Yeah.
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>> Is this for you tissues? [laughter] >> Again, I think the tissues are for me
00:16:23
rather than you. Um thank you doesn't seem like a big enough word to my family
00:16:27
and partner who have been by my side from day one through the low lows to the baby's first step highs. You've been
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through hell with me and I'm lost for words into how to thank you all. I just
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keep pushing forward and hope that I will do uh do that for you now. Can't wait to be home. Yeah. Which again, I
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think it says a lot about you. It's not a post saying, "Hey guys, I'm here. I'm
00:16:50
fine." It's you again thinking about other people. [laughter] >> Yeah. I don't know. It I Yeah. Again,
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it's not something I ever put thought to or it was just like I was in this situation. I was in hospital. When was
00:17:05
that? January something. >> Yeah. Yeah, that was um late January. Yeah. So like a month a month and a bit
00:17:10
afterwards. >> Yeah. So maybe 6 weeks after end of January I would have been close to
00:17:14
moving up to W Cuttle Hospital cuz that's my regional burns unit um from Hut Hospital where I was originally
00:17:23
taken. Um I was just grateful to everyone who'd looked after me. like my family were like holding the gas when um
00:17:33
my whenever I had to have like my sheets changed or dressings changed um in my bed and it was just like I think that
00:17:40
scarred them for life like they were having to hold this gas and I was on like eight different types of pain
00:17:45
medication just to change the sheets on my bed cuz I was just in so much pain. >> Why is that? Because you your skin
00:17:52
sticks to the sheets and they have to sort of peel you off or what do you mean? So [sighs]
00:17:56
um I was lucky that half of my grafting was done while I was in ICU and in the coma. So my arms and hands were done
00:18:06
early on. So the pain I was in in ICU. I kind of I remember being really uncomfortable um and not being able to
00:18:13
move, but I don't really remember it. But I remember my legs being done because my legs were done at the end of
00:18:19
December and I was on the ward. Um they'd reduced my medication um which is hotly debated in my family as whether
00:18:26
that was the right [laughter] thing to do. Um and then um yeah, so that that was done on um quite low medication. And
00:18:34
so when I came out of um surgery for the grafting um I was in absolute agony. Like they just put skin taken skin off
00:18:43
my back, my butt and my thighs and just stuck it to my legs. And I think they only did my legs then and
00:18:49
just touched up a few things on my hands and stuff like that. Um and like they staple it on. It's not it's not like
00:18:56
always glue or stitches. It's staples. And so like I could see staples sticking
00:19:00
out the top of my like bandages and I had them like around my shoulder where I could see them and it was just like the
00:19:06
weirdest thing and I just felt like Frankenstein's monster. Um but like so where they took all the skin from so my
00:19:12
entire backside was just a raw open wound. And so it was like yeah just being this massive graze just in
00:19:20
covering my entire back. And so every time like um I would need to go to the bathroom or um yeah need my sheets
00:19:28
changed but I wasn't due to go to theater um they would have to roll me in bed to basically roll the sheets up on
00:19:36
one side, roll me over the lump of sheets and then roll the rest up and pull it out and then do it all again to
00:19:41
unroll fresh sheets. So, um, if you can imagine that on entirely open wounds and
00:19:47
then it's like when people are trying to grab you and it's like they can't grab
00:19:51
your arms cuz they've just been grafted 2 weeks ago. Can't grab your legs cuz
00:19:54
they were grafted a week ago. Can't touch your entire back site cuz that's
00:19:58
all open wound. It's like so really they've got like not much to hold on to.
00:20:02
So, it was kind of just like we're going to grab all your saw bits and you're
00:20:05
just going to have to like it and lump it basically. It was just like we're going to get this done and it was just
00:20:09
like all right. And it was horrific every time. And yeah, my family would hold the gas in my mouth while I would
00:20:15
roll me and I'd just be like staring at them just like make this stop. So just
00:20:20
like pleading with them and just screaming at them. And so like nurses were leaving crying and it was just it
00:20:26
was traumatic for everyone. So I was just so grateful that my family was there every single day. Every single
00:20:33
day. Um from like before opening like before they would let visitors in, they were like banging on the door to come
00:20:39
in. um until like 11:00 at night and they would basically just sleep on the floor in my room and just like in this
00:20:46
hideous um armchair and they were just there all the time. So I was just so grateful for them. And then obviously
00:20:52
the nurses had just yeah gone above and beyond to yeah save our lives and keep us as comfortable as possible and yeah
00:21:00
they're just yeah I owe them my life. So I was just really grateful. >> Yeah. Oh that's really nice. And then um
00:21:07
so so we'll go right back. What are your what are your memories of that day? It
00:21:11
was a [ __ ] day on the water, right? >> Was it was it a real bumpy day? >> No, [laughter]
00:21:15
>> I know on the on the Netflix movie they talk about everyone being seasick.
00:21:19
>> Yeah, like >> have you just got a strong >> I I don't remember the last time I was
00:21:22
seasick. Um and I' I've been out in some pretty big seas. So, I mean I say it was
00:21:27
a rough >> It was a rough day for the tourists, but >> it was wind chop.
00:21:30
>> Okay. [laughter] >> Um >> but yeah, I mean it it probably looked
00:21:34
worse than what it was. But the boat we had um it was a brand new boat. Um it had only been in operation since April.
00:21:41
That boat was notorious for making people sick. Like it made crew sick. There was a couple of days I remember
00:21:47
where I was the only crew member working and everyone else was vomiting and it was like me versus 30 people vomiting
00:21:53
and it was like this is the best. >> Oh my god. >> So um yeah, it was it wasn't a rough
00:21:59
rough day. It was just Yeah, it was bumpy, but it just seemed to set people off.
00:22:04
>> And And the You were experienced like you you must have loved this job cuz you
00:22:07
had it for like 5 years, you said. Um, so there's no way like there's there's no sort of inkling
00:22:14
or anything that anything was wrong or untowards or out of the ordinary. >> No, it was a level two, but it had been
00:22:18
a level two before and nothing had ever happened. And >> although that that um that scale thing
00:22:25
seems seems really weird. So level one sweet as level two should be should be right. Level three no good. Is that
00:22:32
pretty much it? >> It's um >> that's a threepoint scale. >> It's so it's five point scale. I don't
00:22:38
know if it's changed since but um cuz obviously I don't need to check that
00:22:42
now. Um >> so level one was minor volcanic unrest. Level two Oh, I'm really wrecking my
00:22:49
brain now. Um, level two was moderate to heightened unrest, which is where it was. Um, and then level three, four, and
00:22:58
five are different levels of eruption. And so, level three is basically the material thrown out in the eruption
00:23:05
stays sort of within the inner crater. Level four is sort of on White Island and kind of around the around the island
00:23:13
itself. Five is leaving the island basically, so hitting the sea and going wherever it wants. Um, I actually don't
00:23:21
know what level that was because >> technically I think most of it stayed in
00:23:27
the inner crater which indicates to me that that was a level three. So like the smallest level of eruption. Um,
00:23:35
>> yeah. >> Right. So so the issue was like where you guys were at the time of the
00:23:38
eruption >> which was in the crater, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So So when when
00:23:42
did I mean do you has your brain sort of blocked it out or do you remember? No. >> No. No. So when did you realize, oh
00:23:47
[ __ ] this is this is not good? >> Immediately. >> Yeah. Really? >> Yeah. Yeah. So I was
00:23:51
>> So there's no no warning at all. Nothing. >> There was no noise. There was no noise.
00:23:55
Like there was no like you think like you watch movies of I don't know. There's all sorts of volcanic movies,
00:24:00
but I haven't seen any of them. Um but >> And why would you now? >> Yeah. I mean I probably don't need to
00:24:05
see that now. Um I Yeah. I mean you think of a volcanic eruption, you think like sonic boom material, I suppose, and
00:24:12
like it just like shakes you to the bones. like if we hadn't turned around, we probably never would have saw it
00:24:18
coming. So, we were just lucky that some of the passengers um and I think my backup guide, they um happened to turn
00:24:26
around and we're just all going, "Wow, look at that." Taking photos and then
00:24:29
when I turned around it was like, "That's not normal." And so it was like,
00:24:34
"Let's go." >> You you just So, they were they were in awe of it. Um
00:24:38
>> Well, I mean, you don't know it's not normal. >> Yeah. >> Cuz I mean, they've never been there
00:24:42
before. They might have just thought, "Well, this is part of the show." Like,
00:24:45
>> "Yeah, we wouldn't be here if this was unsafe." >> Exactly. And like And yeah. So, I mean,
00:24:51
yeah, it's hard. It's cuz like I understand the Yeah. I don't know. It's just It's [ __ ]
00:24:58
being a survivor and a crew member cuz I obviously have all the knowledge of the
00:25:03
crew member, but on the other hand, it's like I was also there when it erupted.
00:25:06
So, it's like I never want that to happen to anyone ever again. Um because >> is that like a like survivor guilt in a
00:25:13
way, do you think? >> Not survivor guilt. It's just a shitty position to be in because um
00:25:18
>> like I I I knew obviously what could happen. I talked about it every day for
00:25:24
5 years. I talked about eruptions and like we probably make well we did we made jokes like what happens if it
00:25:31
erupts? It's like well you just cross your fingers and hope like hell it's not
00:25:36
pyrolastic flow and what did we have? [laughter] And it was like as soon as I saw that it was just like well that's
00:25:42
our goose cooked for lack of a better word. It was just like well that's just
00:25:47
white flag moment. It was like I know the odds of surviving that. So it was like what do you do? What do you do when
00:25:53
you're looking at the thing that's going to kill you statistically? >> And and then then how quickly does
00:26:00
everything happen? Do things just go dark immediately or >> um it was so it's really weird. I in my
00:26:07
head the whole thing the whole I guess in an island experience um it took about 10 minutes in my head it was less than
00:26:17
two so it was very very quick which is good in a way um cuz obviously that's 2
00:26:24
minutes and then it was done but um yeah it yeah it was just it was the slowest 2 minutes of my life. Oh, I can
00:26:34
only imagine. And and you you're you're conscious the whole time. >> Yeah. Yeah, I was.
00:26:38
>> But you're in you're in excruciating pain or you your body flips into some
00:26:43
sort of adrenaline mode or what? >> Oh, there's only so much adrenaline can
00:26:46
[laughter] do >> when it's when it's most of your body. Um yeah, there's only so much adrenaline
00:26:50
can do. So, um yeah, like I remember it all. And um yeah, I remember I remember my the feeling of my arms. I don't
00:26:58
remember my legs. And so I remember when I woke up in hospital and was lucid um I
00:27:04
was surprised that my legs were burnt and that they've been grafted and then I
00:27:08
was surprised again that the fact that they look like salami but um yeah it was a weird moment but um yeah
00:27:16
>> what were you wearing? So you had your blue and white stripe >> just t-shirt
00:27:20
>> work t-shirt t-shirt and shorts. >> Yeah. And then I was wearing um hiking
00:27:23
boots. [snorts] Yeah. So, um, anything that was exposed. So, my arms t-shirt line to fingertips
00:27:32
um short line to boot line and then my lower back got burnt cuz when I crouched down um my bag made my shirt right up
00:27:41
and exposed my lower back. So, um it was basically any skin that was exposed um got burnt cuz it was all chemical burns.
00:27:50
[sighs] >> So, so when it's going on like what what are you doing? Are you like writhing
00:27:54
around in pain? Are you are you sort of curled over in the fetal position? >> Yeah, I I'd crouched down. Um I I didn't
00:28:02
move up until the last couple of seconds cuz I kind of thought, well, there's no
00:28:06
point moving cuz I knew what was going to happen, which didn't happen, which is
00:28:11
good. Um >> what did you think was going to happen? >> That we weren't going to make it out the
00:28:15
other side. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Um but yeah, so I remember it all. But um yeah, unless you've had burns,
00:28:22
there's no point trying to describe it cuz I'll never do it justice. >> Well, all I can all I can think of is um
00:28:28
like having a steam burn on on the inside of my hand from a pot, like a tiny little thing like the size of a 50
00:28:33
cent coin. >> And the pain's [ __ ] excruciating. Yeah. >> And there's nothing you can do to escape
00:28:37
it. And you put on, you put frozen peas on it, you run under a tap, whatever, nothing works. That's a tiny tiny tiny
00:28:45
fraction of the body. >> Yeah, >> I'm guessing it's like that even worse.
00:28:48
But just everywhere. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I I had 45% of my body burnt. Um Yeah. So, pretty much
00:28:57
almost all my legs and and pretty much all my arms and then yeah, a little bit of my lower back which wrap around to my
00:29:03
stomach as well. And then I had some um what's the word I'm thinking of?
00:29:08
Cosmetic burns on my face and neck as well, which um [clears throat] aren't as
00:29:13
obvious and didn't get grafted. So, I was lucky there that I managed to protect my face. Not that that's what I
00:29:19
was trying to do, but I just got lucky and um because yeah, I just figured if I had any chance of getting off the
00:29:25
island, it was I needed to be able to see and I need to be able to breathe. So, it was I had my sunglasses on and my
00:29:30
gas mask on which you could is actually burnt into my face. Um and I just held them to my face and so managed to yeah
00:29:36
save the skin on my face that way. Not that that was my aim, but >> yeah. >> Lucky.
00:29:42
>> So, the so the the eruption passes in a couple of minutes then it it becomes
00:29:46
clear again. Is that >> Yeah. Yeah. And then it was quiet and then so yeah it was like well it's now
00:29:52
or never we this is our opening cuz it was kind of like well if it's going to
00:29:56
go again um >> yeah we just have to run that risk cuz either that will stay here.
00:30:01
>> Yeah. >> So how many were were in your group? Cuz there were 22 that died altogether.
00:30:06
>> 21. I think it was 21 >> in your group. >> Yeah. Including me and my backup guide.
00:30:14
>> And how many of you guys made it out? Uh, oh god, I'm not good at math. Yeah,
00:30:21
>> I should work this out and remember this number, but because I keep getting asked
00:30:24
it and I never know, but um I think most >> I think most of my group survived other
00:30:31
than a few, but um >> so just by sheer luck of where you were, >> we yeah, we were in a way better spot
00:30:37
than um group two um the other group which um yeah, only three survived from um so we were in a better place. We had
00:30:45
more protection. Um yeah, we we saw it earlier, I think, as well. >> So, so, so at that point, so the um
00:30:55
you're in agony, the explosion's come and gone. You're like, "Okay, okay,
00:30:58
team, we've got to get the [ __ ] out of here." Are you are you still in in work
00:31:02
mode at that point, or are you more sort of self-preservation mode at that point?
00:31:07
>> Um >> like, "Come on, guys. The boat's down there. I'll see you down there."
00:31:11
>> Uh, [laughter] no. I um I stayed for I think I I don't know how long like my
00:31:16
brain would say it was 5 minutes, but it was probably 5 seconds. Um because yeah,
00:31:21
I guess I was it was I was running so fast trying to get things trying to figure out what was going on that um
00:31:28
yeah, my just so much was crammed into such a small amount of time that time feels longer for me.
00:31:35
>> Yeah. Um but yeah, I convinced my group that they had to get up and then um
00:31:41
yeah, I just said follow me and just basically walked back to the warf. Um and one of our other boats came back for
00:31:50
us cuz the boat, which is lucky cuz the boat that we came out on got hit. So that was full of ash. Um so they
00:31:56
couldn't turn that on cuz if they turned it on, it would have just sucked all the
00:31:59
ash straight into the engine and seized it. So, um, yeah, we got back on the other boat and went home on that.
00:32:08
>> That's remarkable. How you, um, I mean, I'm sure it's only going to be a matter of time, but I
00:32:16
mean, you deserve some sort of bravery award. [laughter] Like, you really do. Like, you you laugh
00:32:21
at it and you you'd never say it, but you do. >> I mean, yeah. I don't know. That's that
00:32:26
I don't know. I think I think you're like you're downplaying the the way that
00:32:30
you acted in the situation. And um I'm I'm telling you, not everyone would
00:32:34
acted the same way. >> I mean, yeah. I guess you don't know what you're going to do in that
00:32:39
situation until you're in the situation. Like I've had people be like, "I'd never
00:32:43
I would never would have reacted like that." So, we have no idea actually cuz
00:32:46
when it's when you're in it, you kind of >> Yeah. You just act. You don't really
00:32:51
think. You just act and it's basically right, what's my best option here? And
00:32:56
you just do that and you just hope for the best. >> Yeah. >> So, um, what's the what like what's the
00:33:02
pain like at that point >> when you when you do how far how's the how far's the walk back to the back to
00:33:07
where you had to get on the boat? Like a few hundred meters. >> Yeah, maybe
00:33:12
150 200 m. Wasn't that far. We were on our way back. So, we were halfway back.
00:33:17
>> Um, maybe just over halfway. So, and it was more or less flat. Yeah. And yeah,
00:33:24
we went past the helicopter that made all the headlines. The one that the only helicopter to ever be left on my island.
00:33:30
So, um >> that's the one that was sort of shaken off the platform and was covered in
00:33:34
>> air. So, it was pushed off the platform. Um I don't know what tonnage that is. I
00:33:38
don't think it's a very heavy one, but um I mean a ton is heavy. So, um it got
00:33:44
shoved off. So, that's a pretty good indication as to how um heavy and how much power that um pylistic flow had.
00:33:52
So, um, yeah, we walk past that and, um, yeah, down to the W. >> And so, [clears throat] everyone gets
00:33:58
back on the boat and it's a boat ride that you've done, you know, just about
00:34:01
every day for the last 5 years, so you know, it's a [ __ ] long way. >> Yeah.
00:34:05
>> Um, like how what is it, like 90 minutes or something? >> Uh, usually sort of just over an hour.
00:34:12
The boat that we were on um on the way back Phoenix um usually could do it in about an hour, 15, hour, 20 depending on
00:34:20
how full it was. Um, obviously it now has two boatloads worth of people on it. Well, one and a half. So, um, yeah, it
00:34:30
was pretty pretty heavy. So, um, it was, yeah, running hot on the way home, >> but you know, the captain's going to be
00:34:36
giving it death. But you also know it's it's a [ __ ] long way back and it's a
00:34:39
long time. >> Yeah, I think we did it in just over an hour. I think he managed to get us home
00:34:44
in just over an hour which is amazing cuz like you could hear the boat at its absolute peak and I remember even
00:34:50
thinking it was like come on Phoenix, come on Phoenix, keep it together and apparently the captain was doing the
00:34:55
same thing. So that was um yeah but yeah, managed to make it back with no issues thankfully.
00:35:00
>> So So no boat issues. >> Yes. So yeah. So what were you doing on that boat ride? You just like just just
00:35:06
lying there in your own [ __ ] pain. >> Is that it? weird. >> I wasn't I don't remember um much going
00:35:12
on around me cuz I was kind of very tunnel vision at that point. Um so yeah, I was just I was sitting out the back
00:35:20
and maybe about halfway back. I just remember being so cold. I was so so cold. I don't know if that was shock or
00:35:29
the fact that I was wet and in the wind. It could have been both. Um and I said to the people that were putting water on
00:35:35
me and helping me, I just said, "I need to get inside." And they were like, "You
00:35:38
can't walk on the boat while it's going this fast." And I just said, "Fucking
00:35:42
watch me." And I got up and I couldn't straighten my legs and I couldn't
00:35:47
straighten my arms. I was like this like little bunched over T-Rex and the boat's
00:35:51
hoofing at home. And so managed to make it in. I think I bounced off a few things and um yeah, managed to make it
00:35:57
inside and sit down. It was like less than out of the wind. But um yeah, that was probably a hard few steps for me and
00:36:04
the poor people that I was talking to. So, so, so the the the pain you're in
00:36:08
then I I feel like if it was me, I'd pass out or something from the from the pain or
00:36:14
discomfort I was in. >> Like, how do you how do you remain conscious through that?
00:36:19
>> I just did. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> I don't think I had much of a choice.
00:36:23
Um, I don't know. Maybe it's cuz I was sitting up. Um, but yeah, I was conscious the whole way home. Um,
00:36:30
yeah. So, I I never never passed out. And and you think at that point you're going to do do you feel
00:36:38
like this is the this is it? You're going to die or you never feel >> No, I didn't. I I had that on the island
00:36:44
when I saw the pyrostic flow, but I think the fact that we'd made out the other side, I was like, it's good. And
00:36:50
so I I never crossed my mind again. It never crossed my mind that because even though we were off the island, we still
00:36:56
weren't out of the woods. So, um, like, and even still, I didn't really find out
00:37:02
about what had ended up happening, like the loss of life and what had happened when we left the island. Um, I never
00:37:10
found out about any of that until about 3 weeks later. >> Um, and then it was like, cuz I was
00:37:15
like, well, I'm alive, so everyone's alive. Cuz it was like, that makes sense. That made sense in my little
00:37:20
brain. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Yeah. And cuz it was like, well, we weren't supposed to make it, but we did
00:37:24
make I made it, so everyone's made it. It's just I don't know why that logic
00:37:28
made sense to me, but it did. Um, so that was pretty brutal having that rug ripped out from underneath me that Yeah.
00:37:36
Yeah. that Yeah. Not everyone made it, which Yeah. was horrible. >> But um, so you're on the boat inspecting
00:37:41
yourself. You you realize it's not good. >> Yeah. I I >> Or did it look not so bad at the time
00:37:47
and got worse over time? >> It didn't look good. [laughter] >> Um, even on the island, it didn't look
00:37:52
good. light. And so that was what seconds after the actual burning and it was just kind of like um I heard one of
00:37:58
the girls describe it as basically like the skin was just melting up was like candle wax and I was like yeah that's
00:38:03
actually a pretty apt description um and even the photos I've now got from hospital um I think I had been debrided
00:38:12
so but you can see where all the skin was just like coming off and it was just here basically melting off. So that was
00:38:19
pretty Yeah, it was it was weird. I just remember I remember my hands the most on
00:38:24
the way home. I just remember staring at my hands being like, "What is happening?
00:38:27
This is weird." And like never really occurring to me that it was burns. Never
00:38:32
really occurring to me that it was going to require grafting. I probably never heard of grafting now that I actually
00:38:37
think about it. Um yeah, it none of that none of that was going on in my head at
00:38:42
that point. It was just like this is weird. What is going on? It was just like tunnel vision of just
00:38:48
>> a state of shock, eh? kind of like coherent normal thoughts. It was kind of just like what is going
00:38:55
on? Just a big kind of what the [ __ ] >> Yeah. Yet on the the other hand, there
00:39:00
were those uh coherent and normal thoughts like you being um putting on your work hat when the explosion was
00:39:05
going on. And also when when you got back to um the mainland um this was in the Netflix documentary like you spot
00:39:12
your your mom. Yeah, my mom, my nana, my sister, and apparently my uncle, and I think my dad was there as well. But I
00:39:21
just remember seeing Yeah, my mom, my nana, and my sister, and I was like looking at my hands, looking at them. I
00:39:26
was like, I don't want them see me like this cuz I was all melty and gross. So,
00:39:30
I was just like >> melty and gross. >> I was just like, I need to And I was in
00:39:33
so much pain. So, I was just like, I don't No one wants their family to see them in that position. So,
00:39:40
>> how far how far away were they? What are you talking like? 20 m, 30 m. >> Yeah, 20 m. Like, so they um if you ever
00:39:47
come to Fakatani Wolf, um I can show you. >> So, they were um on the grass of the
00:39:51
playground, I think. And um we pulled in to where the way station is. So, as we were kind of coming in quite fast, um I
00:39:59
spotted them as we went past and it was just like, "Oo, I got to get off this
00:40:02
boat quick and get out of um yeah, out of where they can see me." Um, unbeknownst to me, um, a couple of the
00:40:10
cops actually knew me, um, from school and uni and through my sister who's a
00:40:15
friends with them, and they saw me go into this ambulance, and they went and told them, they're like, "She's in an
00:40:20
ambulance on the way to hospital." And they were like, "What?" So, um, yeah,
00:40:24
that all moved pretty quickly. And then from there, it gets pretty hazy cuz they
00:40:29
as soon as we got there, they were loading us up on basically anything they could to try and help with the pain.
00:40:36
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I I can understand you not wanting to and I I I get you weren't
00:40:42
thinking coherently at the time, but I can understand you didn't didn't want
00:40:44
your parents um your family to see you in this um in the state. But then like giving them the thumbs up or a wave
00:40:50
would indicate that you're okay, which would have been >> would have been nice for them, but it
00:40:55
was just like [laughter] there was no doing thumbs up that day that not that afternoon. And it was not a thumbs up
00:41:00
moment. So, it was just like it would have been like no. [laughter] >> Okay.
00:41:04
>> Um Yeah. No, it was just like, "Nah, get out of here. Just go." And so, yeah, to
00:41:08
I went off the front of the boat, which meant going up and over the rail and up onto the warf. So, um, my friend's dad
00:41:16
had got on the boat and, um, I was like, "Get me off this boat." And I just like
00:41:19
took off and they were like, "Um, okay." And so, they ended up just Yeah. shoving
00:41:23
me off the boat. And so, um, yeah. And then got me in an ambulance. >> But again, still thinking about still
00:41:29
thinking about the concerns of others. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. which is really really I mean it
00:41:34
yeah you you need to give yourself more credit than what you do for these things.
00:41:38
>> I think I'm just stubborn. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Well, good stubborn then. Good stubborn.
00:41:43
So I know some stubborn people who are complete pains in the ass. Um but that's
00:41:46
a very unselfish um stubbornness. So this is the thing that I don't I don't
00:41:51
understand and maybe you don't understand it or yeah maybe you do have more understanding now about burns and
00:41:55
how they work but I don't understand how this can happen to you. You're on a boat
00:41:59
for an hour. um you walk off the boat, you get taken to hospital and then for the next couple of weeks there's there's
00:42:05
a chance you might live or die. Your life is in the balance. You you think if you can survive the explosion and you're
00:42:09
on the boat for that long that you're going to be sweet as. >> Yeah. Um Yeah. And so that was kind of
00:42:15
my thought as well. And those Yeah. As soon as the pyrostic flow was gone, I was like, I'm alive. Let's go. So, um it
00:42:21
never really crossed my head again that Yeah. that it could still get worse. It never that never crossed my um my brain.
00:42:32
It was just like we're out of here. So that's that's it. We're we're good. Um
00:42:39
but with burns um because of cuz I mean skin's your biggest organ. Skin is well and truly your biggest
00:42:47
organ. And so it is like it thermorreulates and like keeps your body the right temperature. Um it stops
00:42:53
infection and bugs and all the [ __ ] getting into your body. Um it does all the things like it sweats and like Yeah.
00:43:00
So it does all that. Um and so when like for me 45% of that is now damaged and to
00:43:09
the point where it's not just my skin that was damaged, it was even below that. So into the muscle like fascia is
00:43:15
gone like there's bits of muscle being removed like things like that. So it means um that skin's gone. Um, so
00:43:24
infection can get in. All of a sudden, 45% of my body doesn't regulate temperature anymore. So I was always
00:43:30
really really hot. Like I just remember in hospital I was so hot all the time. >> Theaters were kept at about 39°
00:43:38
to keep you warm because um you can't regulate your temperature. So they wheel
00:43:42
me into theater. I was like, "What the [ __ ] Why am I at a sauna? This is like
00:43:47
torture." Like >> I suppose cuz you're you're burning up. Like if you anyone that's had sunstroke
00:43:51
will know >> like the last thing you want to do the next day is be in direct sunlight
00:43:55
because >> Yeah. Yeah. And like um once Yeah. Once the skin's obviously all the burnt skin
00:44:00
has been removed you're just literally like it's just down to the muscle like
00:44:05
all your muscles exposed. So then obviously the risk of infection is massive. And then you have the donor
00:44:11
site which they then remove as well. So that's my entire back. So now you're
00:44:15
thinking legs are open, arms are open, back is open. So that's like over well
00:44:20
and truly over 50% of my body is currently not functioning. My biggest organ is currently not functioning. And
00:44:26
then I did get infections. I got um a couple of infections. Um one of them I got in my donor site and um they had to
00:44:34
graph my legs cuz the cadaavver skin I had on my legs um only lasts about 14 days. So they had to take that off which
00:44:41
means they had to graph me or get more cadaavver skin. And >> consider that that's skin from like a a
00:44:46
recently deceased person or >> so organ donors you have to specify that you want um skin donated as well which
00:44:54
definitely do that cuz obviously that's massive. People don't think about this
00:44:57
kind of [ __ ] >> Organ donor and you think organ donor it's all affecting
00:45:02
>> kidney, heart, eyes, whatever. >> Um it actually doesn't include skin. So
00:45:08
you actually have to make a specific point like include my skin. My skin is an organ. take my skin cuz I mean you
00:45:14
don't need it when you're dead. >> Like don't be selfish. Don't take it.
00:45:19
Don't take it with you. Leave it behind. >> Yeah. What's it going to do in that?
00:45:23
>> Give it a second life. Reduce, reuse, recycle. Come on. Um. >> Wow.
00:45:27
>> And so like I got I got couple of infections um to the point where I know
00:45:31
that one of the antibiotics I was on, they were drip feeding it to me. And it was like I don't know. It was like so
00:45:38
toxic that basically it was getting like a little drop every like 15 minutes or half an hour. Otherwise if they gave it
00:45:43
to me all at once it would kill me. And it was like rad. I want that on my body.
00:45:47
So um like the massive risk of infection. Um and then obviously thermorreulation I could overheat or I
00:45:54
could totally cool down and just drop dead. So like there's so many things that can go wrong with burns and um ICU
00:46:02
those first 10 days. It wasn't until they kind of got to that 10day mark and
00:46:07
they managed to sit me up on the side of the bed which was horrible. Um, and >> was it why just the pain of sitting up?
00:46:14
>> When you've been lying down for 10 days and you've not really moved yourself in
00:46:18
10 days, it's like I've had like you lose so much muscle mass so fast if
00:46:24
you're not moving. If you're not using it, you literally lose it. So, um, 10
00:46:27
days of not moving um, and not using my muscles. Like I was being moved in theater. I had a physio who would come
00:46:33
into theater and while I was knocked out would be in there like stretching everything and bending everything. Um
00:46:39
and then yeah so basically then they sat me out before I left was allowed to leave ICU and it was horrible. I still
00:46:45
remember it now and I was still like seeing double and um didn't know where I
00:46:50
was and it was just like this woman who' just kidnapped me. She hadn't actually
00:46:54
she was a nurse um was trying to make me sit up on the side of the bed and it was
00:46:57
just like insult to injury. It's like you've just kidnapped me now you're
00:47:00
making me sit up. It was just like this is not fair. Um yeah, and then it was just like got up on the ward and then um
00:47:07
yeah, still had issues with um uh infection and then there was a day where a day um it was not long after my legs
00:47:20
got done where the graphs didn't look like they're actually going to take and
00:47:23
I was in so much pain. I don't actually remember anyone telling me that that's
00:47:26
what the surgeon has said after that dressing change. Um they basically just everyone looked pretty depressed and it
00:47:33
was like we're gonna have to do this again. >> So it meant waiting for my back and
00:47:39
everything to heal enough to take it again for the third time. And I was an Aggy. I was like I'm not doing this
00:47:44
again. It was like but you need skin. So I was like you need to do it again. >> But thankfully they did take so I didn't
00:47:49
have to do that again. >> So there's the um cadaavver skin cadaavver >> cadaavver
00:47:53
>> cadaavver skin that you talk about and also the um skin graft from your own
00:47:57
body. Where did they take that from? your back. >> Uh yeah. So it I was lucky they lucky um
00:48:03
they took it from my back, my butt, and my thighs. So if I was wearing shorts, it just looks like I've been attacked
00:48:07
with a cheese slice, basically. One of those ones where you can get the slices >> still.
00:48:12
>> Yeah, you can still see the scars. My back's red. Well, it's not red now. It's
00:48:17
kind of pink, but it's definitely a different color to the rest of my normal
00:48:20
skin. [sighs and gasps] >> Wow. So how many how many surgeries all up? 17.
00:48:31
I think it's 17. Wow. >> Um, which I think Yeah, it's it's number
00:48:35
17 or 18 this year. So, I'm waiting on one more um for Yeah. this year, which
00:48:41
will be number 17 or 18, I think. >> All right. >> Yeah. >> So, so then um so it's like 2 weeks
00:48:48
after the eruption where you sort of come out of the coma or regain sort of consciousness. So I was in a coma for 5
00:48:55
days but in ICU for 10 up. Yeah. >> So half of my time in ICU was conscious
00:49:02
and the other half not so much. >> So what are your earliest sort of coherent memories of sort of coming out
00:49:07
of the mist? I guess >> I remember coming out of the coma. Um and it's from what my parents have told me
00:49:16
cuz they were there in the morning and they were like we're going to wake her
00:49:18
up today. And everyone was like yes y can talk to Kelsey. Um, and the doctor came in, I don't know how they do it, so
00:49:26
I'm probably going to get this bit wrong, but basically adjusted the meds or whatever to wake me up. And he was
00:49:30
like, "It should take about 20 minutes. Um, I'll come back in about 20 minutes
00:49:34
and um, we can go from there." >> Left to go see the other patients cuz
00:49:39
obviously I'm not the only one in the hospital. Um, literally as soon as he left, I woke up and everyone was like,
00:49:47
"Get the doctor cuz I'm gagging cuz I've got tubes down my throat and I can't
00:49:52
move." And so I'm getting really stressed cuz it's like it felt like
00:49:55
being just like pinned to the bed and something's in my throat and it was like
00:50:00
I can't breathe. I was like my eyes were like this and so I couldn't see. Um, I
00:50:04
didn't know what was going on. I could hear my dad's voice. Um, I remember my
00:50:07
dad's voice. My mom was there as well. But um it got I got so stressed. Mom actually had to leave because she just
00:50:14
couldn't handle it, which is fair. Um and dad >> Oh, it's so distressing. I mean, your
00:50:19
daughter's in this um discomfort and there's nothing you can do. >> Exactly. And I can't find the doctor.
00:50:23
Doctor's somehow vanished off the face of the planet. Dad's trying to calm me
00:50:28
down. I remember him talking to me. Um and he's trying to tell me to calm down
00:50:32
and just breathe slowly like you're fine. And I'm going there's something in
00:50:35
my throat. And it was just like this is not fine. >> [laughter] >> And so, um, yeah, I remember that very,
00:50:41
very clearly. I couldn't see anything cuz it was just like my eyes either had
00:50:45
something in them or just cuz I've been in a coma, I was on so much drugs, they
00:50:50
just, yeah, were in different directions. And there was this orange haze. I remember this orange haze and
00:50:55
thinking I was in a tent. And I remember thinking that's not very hygienic. From
00:50:58
the last time I saw my body, I was like, "This isn't very hygienic. This is not a
00:51:01
good place to be." And now I'm like choking. So, it was like this is great.
00:51:05
This is a good way. But I didn't realize I'd been in a coma either. I just
00:51:08
thought I had a little nap and then all of a sudden was waking up to all this random [ __ ] and it was like what is
00:51:14
happening? >> Yeah. I suppose you lose complete um sense or perspective of time.
00:51:19
>> Yeah. Cuz it's it's not like I mean you go to sleep and you wake up it's like
00:51:23
whether it's been 5 minutes or 5 days kind of doesn't register at that point.
00:51:27
Um Yeah. Yeah. And so eventually the doctor came back cuz they have to make sure that you are
00:51:33
>> properly waking up and properly going to wake up cuz otherwise they have to
00:51:37
reinvate you while you're awake which >> as you can imagine probably not very
00:51:41
comfortable. So they did the doctor that's why he >> the tubes weren't allowed to be just
00:51:46
pulled out. It was like I had to be totally awake before they were going to pull those out. Um so that they didn't
00:51:51
have to put them back in and put me back under. >> Yeah. So, so those those early
00:51:55
conversations, do you remember much about them? Like like what do you did you have a million questions or were you
00:51:59
just sort of numb? >> I remembered it all. Um the doctors were like she probably won't remember um it's
00:52:04
got to be about like 50 first dates which is why they didn't tell me the extent of what had happened for 3 weeks
00:52:10
cuz they would probably have to tell me every day. And I mean mom and dad were still getting to grips with what had
00:52:16
happened. And >> um people were still dying in other hospitals. um all that [ __ ] was still
00:52:21
happening back home with trying to get the other people off the island and all the other stuff. So
00:52:26
>> um they were like, "We're not doing that for us and for her. That's just not
00:52:30
right." So um they Yeah. didn't tell me, which was the right thing to do. It
00:52:34
definitely was. Um >> they just mean didn't tell you. Didn't tell you what had happened or the extent
00:52:38
of what was going on. >> Yeah. The extent of what was happening. Yeah. >> Keep you cocooned.
00:52:42
>> Yeah. So and like I would ask questions. I'd be like, "Where's how's Hayden?
00:52:46
Where's Hayden?" and they just somehow changed the subject. And I remember a
00:52:51
couple of times thinking that's weird and then just continuing on cuz I was just so full of drugs. It was just kind
00:52:56
of like I had a brain like a s so I was just like that's weird and just carried
00:53:00
on answering questions. So it was a bit weird but yeah I remembered everything and the doctors are quite surprised by
00:53:05
that. So, um, yeah, I'm quite glad that I do remember what I remember because
00:53:10
there's no kind of question as to what happened for me. And, um, yeah, I'm glad
00:53:14
I remember, which >> is morbid and weird, but yeah, it just means there's no question for me as to
00:53:21
what happened and I'm not relying on everyone else to fill in those gaps and
00:53:25
that kind of stuff. >> Yeah, 100%. So, um Hayden, who you who you just mentioned, he's um
00:53:32
uh he was one of your co-workers. Um like your boss boss or a peer? >> Um he was my boss. He was one of my
00:53:39
bosses. >> Massive massive massive massive lamb chop sideburns. >> Yeah. The most horrific [laughter]
00:53:45
sideburns you've ever seen. Yeah. >> All the way like all the way down to the
00:53:48
mustache line. Massive. >> And in November, he'd grow it up into handlebar mustache and it would be like
00:53:53
a mustache lamb chop hybrid and it was horrible. Yeah, >> every November. >> What are you, what are your memories of
00:53:59
Hayden? >> Oh, so many. Um, yeah, he trained me when I first started there. And so, um,
00:54:06
and he was just like, we ended up calling him Funk cuz he was like our fun uncle. He was just, oh, he's so fun.
00:54:12
Like he'd like take us out to like Tuttle Falls after work and like we just go and do all like real fun stuff in the
00:54:17
area and um yeah, like his tours were just a hoot and he just gave everything 110%. So it was just yeah, he was so
00:54:25
much fun. It was great. Um and then he became one of our bosses instead of one of our peers. And so that was a bit of
00:54:32
an adjustment. Um and he took his job very seriously which was really really cool. Like hindsight I wish I'd actually
00:54:38
stopped being such a little pratt [laughter] and um actually just listened rather than fighting him all the time.
00:54:45
Um so it was a bit of like brother sister relationship where >> um yeah I was always right, he was
00:54:51
always right. So it was just like we'd always just clash over dumb [ __ ] like
00:54:54
that. Um and then he became a skipper which was really cool. So he was driving the boats. Um and yeah, so it was really
00:55:02
cool to go watch him like go up through the ranks I suppose to skipper and he was just so proud of that achievement as
00:55:09
well which was really cool. >> Yeah. And that was the um so just following your Instagram journey um
00:55:14
there was that first appreciation post you did where you thanked everyone for their support and you thanked the give a
00:55:19
little people um $120,000 by the way and then the next post was an appreciation post to um Hayden I suppose when the
00:55:27
reality um >> sunk in that your mate didn't make it. >> Yeah, it was um I don't you you probably
00:55:34
know when I posted that. I don't >> I can't remember the date. >> It was Yeah, I can't remember. I don't
00:55:40
think I was home. I think I was still in huts. It must have been um end of January sometime cuz I don't think I'd
00:55:46
been moved. Um but yeah, I I'd known for maybe a month by that point. Um yeah, and it just it was yeah, pretty
00:55:56
horrible. And then um like I hadn't seen the news or watched the news um since it
00:56:01
had all happened. Um >> did you want to or No, >> no. I' I'd been hearing some pretty
00:56:06
horrible stories about what people were saying and >> what like [sighs] >> you don't want to go there. [laughter]
00:56:13
>> I probably shouldn't go there cuz I'll get really worked up and then I'll
00:56:15
probably get in trouble. But um yeah. Um >> no no. Yeah. I'm just curious from from
00:56:21
my perspective because all I remember from that time is just this this horrible um human tragedy which was just
00:56:26
one of the one of the most devastating days in New Zealand history. And I I certainly didn't come across anyone
00:56:31
saying anything horrible about it. Oh, I I'd heard all sort like people it I
00:56:36
don't know if there was anything malicious behind it, but um I there was a lot of things that were said that
00:56:42
weren't right and there were a lot of things that were made up because they didn't have the answers cuz obviously
00:56:46
everyone at the time was busy trying to get people off the island and trying to figure out who was where and what was
00:56:52
happening. Um so my colleagues and that obviously weren't talking to the press and um I don't
00:57:00
think Nata was talking to the press. know I'm talking to the press cuz it was
00:57:03
like let's just deal with what's happened rather than tell you what's
00:57:06
happened. You're actually not part of this. So people were filling in blanks.
00:57:10
Um there's I've got a whole bunch of news stories about um all these things
00:57:16
that people have said. Um like one of them for instance was that instead of looking after my group I called my mom
00:57:23
on the island which is quite a feat in itself because if you know why island there's no coverage. Um, I also didn't
00:57:30
have a phone, so that was pretty clever. Um, and also there was no time, so it was like, where did you get that
00:57:36
information? Why are you making that [ __ ] up? >> That's an absolute kick in the guts.
00:57:40
>> And it made and it made me look like I I don't know if people took it seriously
00:57:44
or not, but it it made me feel like I hadn't done my job. And it was like I knew that it wasn't real, so I knew they
00:57:50
were just full of [ __ ] but it was like I didn't do that. And people now think I
00:57:54
did this. I was just like, "Oh my god, everyone's going to think that that's
00:57:57
why people died. they're gonna think that this is my fault. So, that was really horrible. And then there was
00:58:01
stuff said about the company and um yeah, like there's some pretty nasty [ __ ] Like people were just keyboard
00:58:08
warriors and it was pretty horrible. So, I stayed the hell away from it. And um my nurses wouldn't let me watch TV. Um
00:58:17
and I was there for like I was in hospital for I think it was like 70 something days, but never watch TV.
00:58:24
Like, and what else do you do in hospital other than stare at the roof? So it was like I never watched TV that
00:58:29
whole time cuz I was just like I don't want to know. I don't want to see. And
00:58:32
my hands were all bandaged and delicate. Um I couldn't change the channel. So it
00:58:37
was like [laughter] >> if everyone left it was like something came on it was like well I'm just going
00:58:43
to have to like la my way through this and it was just like I'm not doing that.
00:58:46
So it was just like no I'm not doing this. >> So never watched TV. Um yeah didn't
00:58:51
listen to the radio or anything when I came home. Um, actually the only radio I did listen to was The Rock because they
00:58:57
don't do that [ __ ] They don't talk about that kind of [ __ ] So it was just
00:59:01
like >> Well, and can I can I tell you from like a like the perspective of sitting here?
00:59:05
>> I just realized that you weren't on the rock. You were on the edge.
00:59:07
>> I was on I was on the edge at the time. Yeah. >> You under the bus.
00:59:10
>> No, that's all right. That's right. The Rock. Um, they're good friends of mine.
00:59:13
I know you've done a bit with um Jay and Dunk who do the afternoon show on the
00:59:16
rock and they do a great great show. But um just if I may um well not even applaud but just say no no no other no
00:59:24
media organization's doing that. That's that's individual weird people online.
00:59:30
>> No media organization >> it's just made me real paranoid now. And
00:59:35
then especially with the court cases it's made me just really really paranoid
00:59:39
that >> whatever I say is going to get used wrong and whatever I talk about is going
00:59:45
to get used against me in court and stuff like that. So I'm just like hella paranoid like so I mean I've not done a
00:59:52
lot of these sorts of things and when I do it's like I want to hear it before it
00:59:56
goes anywhere live. Um and I want the right to be able to say cut that out, take that out.
01:00:02
>> Well you you we've been going backwards and forwards for for a couple of months.
01:00:05
You're you're you're a hard one to pin down. Um but you you sent me a DM a
01:00:09
couple of weeks ago saying, "Oh, can you send me a list of questions?" And uh cuz
01:00:12
you you were worried about the legal the legal aspect. And I replied to you saying, "Well, I don't I don't really
01:00:17
have [laughter] I don't I don't I don't really have any questions, but it's just like um it's
01:00:21
your perspective on things, but I never really sort of thought about it from your angle that and that's um that's
01:00:27
another like you what you've been through is is daunting. Like it's been
01:00:30
enough trauma for, >> you know, 10 lifetimes really, let alone one." And and now you've got this other
01:00:36
thing hanging over your head. >> Yeah. And it was like even um like when they told me what was going on. So this
01:00:41
is like it was I think it was right before my leg grafting. So it was around Christmas in 2019. Um so I'm hearing
01:00:48
about all the stuff. I'm hearing that people have died. I'm hearing um basically what's going on back home, all
01:00:54
that kind of stuff. And then I'm also hearing media are trying to break into
01:00:58
the hospital. The hospital is in lockdown because of you. Cuz you're here. Every single hospital with someone
01:01:05
in it from my island is in lockdown. There are guards everywhere. There's police everywhere. My family were being
01:01:12
harassed. Um, people were calling them. It was like, "How did they get their
01:01:16
numbers?" Um, they were breaking into the hospitals. They were dressing up in
01:01:20
lab coats and trying to get through security. They were lying about being a relative of mine. Um, I heard that one
01:01:27
of them burnt themselves purposely to get into the burns unit to try and find us. And it was like, I'm hearing all of
01:01:33
this while I'm not straight to the bed, but I'm immobile. I can't film for
01:01:38
myself. And it was like, so I'd have like 2 hours in the middle of the day where I was like having a nap and I just
01:01:43
stare at the door. And it was like, what if someone comes through with the camera? I can't do anything. I can't
01:01:48
even call the nurses cuz I had this little husky voice cuz I had a tube down my throat. So it was like, I can't
01:01:53
defend myself. And then I got out of hospital and it was like I started seeing all this stuff in the media and
01:01:58
it was like, oh my god. Like nowhere is safe. No one has got anyone's back here.
01:02:03
Everyone's just like it's like this big media frenzy piranha just basically just
01:02:07
ripping shreds off and it was like holy [ __ ] And so it was terrifying. And then
01:02:11
they're like and then I yeah posted that first um post got slammed media being
01:02:17
like we want to talk to you. Let's do this. And I was just like well actually
01:02:20
I've got this media article from your work. There's no way I'll talk to you.
01:02:24
Look what you said. It's like there's no way. So I just delete and just Yeah.
01:02:28
Never reply. >> Yeah. Also, I suppose by doing stuff Well, yeah. By doing stuff on Instagram,
01:02:32
it's like you control your narrative as well. >> Yeah. And so, it was safe for me cuz it
01:02:35
was like >> it's your space. >> Yeah. Exactly. No one could take it
01:02:39
over. No one could misconrue what I said because it was like I would I'd write it
01:02:42
out. I had my mom read it. I had my dad read it. Um my partner at the time, I'd
01:02:46
have him read it. I had my sister read it. And it was like, can you misread anything in this? And it was like that
01:02:52
for months. And it was just like I'm I was terrified. And I didn't want to go
01:02:56
into town. I didn't want to leave my house. It was terrifying. Oh, Kelse, that's terrible. [sighs]
01:03:02
[gasps] >> Sorry you went through that. And >> that's on top of everything else.
01:03:06
>> No, no one deserves it. But but especially when um >> like when when your character in conduct
01:03:12
on the island Sorry, I'm getting upset now. >> I'm getting all mad and [laughter] my my
01:03:17
voice is getting like raspy and my mouth is dry. Um, like I mean >> as a media person you're thinking Jesus
01:03:26
like >> what people can I just say anyone that's in music radio they're not they're not
01:03:31
media people Jay and Duncan I know you big but it's like the fact that someone
01:03:35
could accuse you of like um you know almost improper conduct um during the the emergency and calling your mom
01:03:42
>> I'm a call mom just wait guys >> especially when the um the way you
01:03:47
actually handled yourself as we all now know is like the polar opposite of that.
01:03:50
Like you went above and beyond. >> I mean, that's just it's heartbreaking.
01:03:54
I I can't imagine what it's like. I'm just trying to put myself in your shoes.
01:03:58
Like being in this broken position where you're aching all over. >> You're just you you're being pulled in
01:04:04
one direction and the other direction and you know, you're just stinging and
01:04:08
you're completely immobile and then this shit's going on about you. It's
01:04:11
unthinkable and I'm sorry. >> Yeah. And so like um yeah, just terrifying. And then it's like, and then
01:04:17
um the police want to talk to you cuz obviously you're a witness now. You're a
01:04:21
victim. You're a witness. Um and so it was just like Jesus, now I have to do
01:04:25
that. And if I say anything that makes it sound like I've done something wrong
01:04:28
or a colleague's done something wrong, I'm then going to have to do this in
01:04:31
court. So it was like great. And it was like and I know if I say anything to the
01:04:35
media and I get worked up cuz it's very easy for me to get worked up about. >> I can tell you're faster. Is that is
01:04:42
that a a redhead thing? >> Oh, look. I'm like I'm the [laughter] worst of all of them. It's like red
01:04:47
head, Aries. It's like you name it, I am it. It's like Yeah. Like sign. It's just
01:04:53
oh man. It's just like the perfect combination of just like aggro. And then it's like and then like my brain is
01:04:59
permanently stuck and fight because fight has saved my life so many times. It's like so now it's just like my my
01:05:06
brain just goes fight >> that'll save you. And it's just like so now it's just like every doesn't take
01:05:11
much for me to like and just like get all angsty straight away. And so, um, yeah, it's it's pretty [ __ ]
01:05:15
>> but that the fight or flight thing like we talked about that before. That's um
01:05:19
that's how you were able to conduct yourself so awesomely in the heat of the
01:05:23
>> the heat of the moment. >> And like fight is great for those situations, but when you like drop a
01:05:27
spoon and just like want to fight everyone, not so good. [laughter] >> Not very handy.
01:05:33
>> So, um, like how how are you now? How how's the pain now? What how has your
01:05:38
life changed? Like, what can't you do? Um, I mean, I'm pretty fair skinned
01:05:44
anyway, so the graphs burn really easy, but I'm already fair skinned, so I already burn really easy. So, it's like,
01:05:51
cool, I've been training for this my whole life. So, that's not really changed. Like, I can't really go out in
01:05:56
the sun in summer. Um, can't really regulate my temperature anymore. So, it's like I don't realize I'm hot until
01:06:01
it's like, wow, I'm faint. I'm going to pass out. I'm too hot. Um, and then same
01:06:07
with cold. I don't realize I'm cold until it's like my body starts vibrating. Um the first time it happened
01:06:11
it was like cuz I don't get goosebumps cuz my legs arms don't have the pores or
01:06:16
the like any they don't they don't do that anymore. So all of a sudden my body
01:06:19
just starts shaking cuz I go for I don't get goosebumps and then get and I get
01:06:24
cold get goosebumps start shaking. I just skip all of that and go straight to shaking. The first time it happened it
01:06:29
was like I was just shaking. I was like am I having a seizure? I was like what's
01:06:32
happening? And they were like are you cold? And I was like no. And they were just like it's quite cold and you're not
01:06:37
wearing a jacket. And it was like, I'm not cold, but I'm shaking. What is
01:06:41
happening? Put a jersey on me and it stopped. And it was like, cool. So that's new. And it's like I still find
01:06:47
random little new things. It's like I get weird sensations in my legs and in
01:06:51
my hands. And it's just like I had one I think last week where I think I was
01:06:55
standing in the kitchen just like getting my supplements or something like that. And it was like, oh, there's cold
01:07:00
water on my leg and looked down and it was like there's nothing on my leg and
01:07:04
it's just my nerves having a little like and freak out. >> Wow. Um, so that's pretty weird. Um, but
01:07:10
otherwise >> that's that's your new normal now. That's how >> Yeah. And like every time I ask someone
01:07:15
like when will the nerve pain go away because I don't really want to keep taking this medication for life. They're
01:07:19
like um and change the subject. And so no one really knows. [laughter] So >> everyone say, "Oh gosh, she's she's
01:07:25
she's going to see the red mist. Don't want to make her mad." >> What sort of meds are you on? How many
01:07:29
like how many? Is it a cocktail of pills? >> I'm not on much. And that surprises
01:07:33
people. Um even like in the first I think once I was at a hospital I was off all my medication which was fantastic.
01:07:39
Um and so people were like oh you must be on so many medications and I was like now I'm on none and they were like oh
01:07:45
okay and so um but now I am on pain uh nerve pain medication um cuz you always want to rip the skin off my legs. Um and
01:07:54
then I'm also on beta blockers for my heart rate um which I'm actually seeing
01:07:57
my cardiologist tomorrow to hopefully come off them this year. um cuz we're not quite sure if it's the physical
01:08:03
trauma or the mental trauma, so the fight flight, but my resting heart rate was quite high. It was over 100. And so
01:08:11
I'd do any kind of exercise or cardio. I'd walk up a hill, my heart rate's at
01:08:15
190 something and it's like I've just walked somewhere and it's like that's
01:08:19
not safe. And then um resting heart rate of 110 apparently can start to do damage. So, um, my cardiologist, um, put
01:08:27
me on the beta blockers to bring my heart rate down, which we didn't realize
01:08:32
until, I think about a year ago, um, because it caps my heart rate and it keeps my heart rate down. It does really
01:08:38
good job of that. Um, if I do any cardio, I run out of oxygen cuz my heart rate can only go so high. And so, I'm
01:08:46
not getting oxygen into my muscles. And so for a while it was like, "Oh my god,
01:08:51
I've gone backwards so far with my like exercise cuz I could like do quite a lot
01:08:56
of things." And then all of a sudden Royy's Peak. It wasn't easy and I cried
01:09:00
the last kilometer. But um >> Did you It was since uh 2019. >> Yeah, I did that. Uh what year are we?
01:09:08
>> Yeah. 2023 now. >> Um not 22. Must have been 21. >> Wow. Good for you. Yeah, that's a hell
01:09:14
of a climb. Zigzags back and forth forever. >> Yeah. And there's no cover. So, so it's
01:09:18
all sun. >> Yeah. >> Which was >> not nice. Um, but yeah, we did that in
01:09:22
November. And yeah, I like I was good up until the like Instagram point. >> And I was like, [laughter] "This is the
01:09:29
top." And my partner at the time was like, "This is not the top. We have a K
01:09:33
to go." And I was just like, "I don't want to go to the last K." Like, I'm
01:09:36
could just die here, thankfully. And he was just like, "No, come on. We're doing
01:09:39
it. You'll regret it if you don't. It's 1K." Like, and I was just like, "Okay."
01:09:43
And that's where I'd like hit my limit. And I just like bowled my eyes out for
01:09:47
the last K and I was like I don't want to do this and just like moped up the
01:09:50
hill and made it to the top. Admittedly he was right. It was worth it. Um the views were amazing. Um
01:09:57
>> Roy's Peak by the way. It's down sort of Wanuk away >> in Central Targetago. Beautiful. Well
01:10:02
worth the hike. >> Stunning. It is stunning. And then on the way down it was like my knees just
01:10:05
felt like there was no cartilage there anymore. It was just like bone on bone and it was just oh it was a bad time.
01:10:11
But um did that and then yeah it was like 2 months later I could not walk up a hill at home without bursting into
01:10:20
tears and it was like not even okay. It was like how how can I do roy peak and then not do this? It was just like I
01:10:27
couldn't work it out and I got on the beta blockers since then and my physio
01:10:30
was like you're running out of oxygen like that's why all of a sudden you get
01:10:34
fatigued and then you burst into tears cuz your brain's running out of oxygen
01:10:38
>> right like almost like altitude sickness. >> Yeah. And so it was just like and then
01:10:41
it was like so like for the last year just over a year now I've been on the beta blockers and so I have to be really
01:10:48
careful with my cardio and so if I do or when I do like um I've um started boxing
01:10:54
and like bar and so both I just have to be really careful with my cardio. So it's like my heart rate I can get it to
01:11:01
about 120 and keep it there and I'm all right. But if I go any higher than that
01:11:04
for any kind of prolonged period of time I run out of oxygen. So yeah, this the podcast is called runners only. I'm
01:11:11
guessing no relationship with running. >> No relationship [laughter] to running.
01:11:15
Occasionally I'm like I'd love to know how to like I'd love to be able to run
01:11:18
and then I'm like no my boobs like want to rip off my chest and my knees hurt
01:11:22
and I was like I don't want to do that. >> Um were you Yeah, you mentioned your
01:11:26
exercise and the the heart rate thing. It would make you emotional and cry. Were you very emotional pre209 or quite
01:11:31
a quite a quite a hard bit? Um, no. Oh, pro. Yeah, I don't know. Some maybe.
01:11:39
>> Has it made you Has it made you more emotional, do you? [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah.
01:11:42
>> Yeah. I um like even like watching movies like um I cry a lot easier than I
01:11:47
ever ever did. I'd be like a zappy and just like walk away from it. Whereas now
01:11:51
I'm like and it's so that's quite a change. Um, and then with the fight, the
01:11:56
PTSD, um, yeah, I get angered really easily, um, over anything. And then it's
01:12:02
like I also shut down really easily. So, um, I went away recently with a group of
01:12:07
19 strangers, as you do when you've got PTSD and you want to push yourself to
01:12:12
the limit. And it was great, but it was quite action-packed. And admittedly, it was really good because I might actually
01:12:18
have a big trip at the end of the year, which will be bigger than this. So, it was kind of a nice little taster of M
01:12:24
>> domestically cuz it was a South Island. Um it was like I can just get on a plane
01:12:27
and come home within a couple of hours. So that's fine. But um it was like two 2
01:12:32
days in it was like wow I really didn't take into account the social aspect of
01:12:38
getting tired and so it was like 2 days into 10 days I think it was. It was like
01:12:44
wow I'm exhausted and it was just like I don't want to talk to anyone anymore.
01:12:48
And it's like let's go do Hooker Valley. And it was like, [laughter] oh, okay.
01:12:54
And then so I and then when we got to Queenstown, I was like, I feel like [ __ ] And so I said to the to a leader,
01:12:59
I was like, I I got to tap out for a day or I'm lose my [ __ ] And so he was just
01:13:04
like, well, you're booked into this thing. I was like, not anymore, mate. I'm going to call him and pull out. And
01:13:08
they were like he was like, you can't do that. It's less than 24 hours out. I was
01:13:10
like, I can [ __ ] do [laughter] that because it's either that or I'm going to
01:13:14
cry my whole way through it. And so pulled out of it. And they were sweet. They were like, yeah, that's fine. We
01:13:19
totally get it. So I just like stayed in my hotel room. But when I was walking in
01:13:23
Queenstown, I walked them down to I think they were going rafting or canyoning. Um and so I walked them down
01:13:30
there and I was walking back and I was in Queenstown main street and I was walking back to the hotel. Someone
01:13:37
dropped something in Queenstown and it sounded exactly like Wow Island. And I don't like I say that the eruption
01:13:44
didn't make any noise and I mean that um it was like a noise it used to make
01:13:48
about a month before and also a year before that. So it wasn't even related to the eruption. It was
01:13:52
>> what was that? What sort of sound? >> It was just like this big boom like
01:13:55
someone just dropped like >> at the when I was down there they had these like big like iron bits over I
01:14:01
guess holes in the ground. Okay. >> And so I think someone had picked one up
01:14:04
to look under it and then just dropped it. >> And it took every fiber of my being not
01:14:08
to just duck and cover in the main street of Queenstown. And I was just like physically shaking and I was just
01:14:13
like go go go get back to the hotel and made it back to the hotel without having
01:14:17
a full-on breakdown. Um and then a few days later I actually had two panic attacks in a kayak which is not the
01:14:25
greatest place to have a panic attack all the places. >> I know on the water like one of those
01:14:30
ones that you like in and I was just like cool. So if this [ __ ] flips I've
01:14:34
got to actually like physically save myself and was like I don't want to do that again. I don't want to save myself
01:14:38
again. So, um it was quite an eye opening test cuz obviously at home everything's nice and safe. Um I have my
01:14:47
routine, I have my appointments, all my my different therapists and exercise coaches like they all know me really
01:14:53
well. They all know what triggers me. They know how to like deal with me, I suppose, go out. And so I was like, I
01:14:59
feel really good. I feel really strong. I'm doing all the stuff that my wellness
01:15:02
coaches teach me to do. I feel great. Like I haven't had an incident with PTSD
01:15:06
in ages. So, I was like, "I'm going to do this real big random thing." When I
01:15:10
did that, I came back and I was like, >> "Oh my god, I am hopeless. I've made no
01:15:16
progress." And she was just like, "No, like you're totally out of you. You're
01:15:20
totally out of your safe zone." Like, and you're in this like massive situation. But I learned a lot. And so,
01:15:25
that's good. And so, I'm using that going forward. And it's like, um, if I
01:15:28
do this big trip at the end of the year, then I've got all these things now which
01:15:32
I'm like, need to work on that, need to work on that, need to take that into
01:15:35
account. So, um yeah, that's massive, which is really good. >> Oh, I I know you're not going to like
01:15:40
this, but um it's it's inspirational that you're even like doing this. Like a
01:15:43
lot of people are going to be um listening to this thinking, "Oh god, you know, I'm in more of a comfort zone than
01:15:49
what she is, and I haven't been through any of this shit." Like the fact that
01:15:52
you are constantly trying to push yourself. Um yeah. Are you quite kind to yourself?
01:15:58
>> No. >> God, [laughter] no. >> I'm I'm learning I'm learning to be a
01:16:02
lot kinder. like um my PTSD was got really really bad at the start of last year. Um it was really really bad
01:16:11
and I openly admit I was a piece of [ __ ] like I didn't want to be around me but I
01:16:16
can't get away from me and so um had a breakdown with a couple of relationships
01:16:20
um which not even in contact with them anymore and they're two people I thought
01:16:24
would be in my life for life. That was a massive slap in the face to keep trying
01:16:30
and keep trying to find something cuz I was just done. I was like, I'm trying
01:16:34
talk therapy. That doesn't feel like it's working. I tried EMDR. That made
01:16:39
things worse. >> EMDR. What's that? >> Eye movement. EMD. Dissociate.
01:16:47
>> I can't remember anymore. >> That's a terrible. >> Oh, it's the worst. It means Yeah. eye
01:16:51
movement desensitization and reprocessing. Right. >> So basically it it's to try and
01:16:58
reprocess the trauma or the memory into the actual memory part of your brain rather than it living in the emotional
01:17:04
part of the brain and not being where it's supposed to be. So um tried that that didn't work. Um tried a whole bunch
01:17:11
of other stuff that didn't work. Um and just was I was just tired. I was done. I
01:17:16
was so tired. Like all the physical recovery [ __ ] then all the trying to like heal mentally as well which is like
01:17:21
way worse than the physical stuff. >> Yeah. Is it? I was just done. So, I just
01:17:24
was just like, "Fuck this. I'm just going to have a few months off. I'm just
01:17:27
have a break." >> Which you can't do. You can't just have a break from healing.
01:17:32
>> And so, my my headspace, everything just deteriorated really really bad. The PTSD
01:17:39
basically took over. I was terrified of everything. I was angry at everything. I
01:17:43
was I I probably wasn't depressed, but I was sad a lot. I was Yeah. And I didn't
01:17:49
leave the house. Like, I barely left the house. And all this is understandable, right?
01:17:53
>> Yeah. To an extent. Yes. >> No, 100% it is. Like with what you've
01:17:58
been through. >> Yeah. And >> I mean, it would be it would be very very easy and even like no one could
01:18:03
hold hold it against you if you decided to be a victim for the rest of your life.
01:18:07
>> And that's kind of where I was. I was just like, I've had this I've had all
01:18:11
these horrific things happen to me. >> I've ended up in all these shitty
01:18:14
situations. I feel like I'm totally alone. No one gets it. No one can seem to help me. I've tried all these things.
01:18:20
people are trying to help. It's not working. I'm done. Like, I just want to
01:18:23
be a normal person for a bit. So, I'm just going to just relax. And yeah, it
01:18:28
got ugly. And so, yeah, I lost those two relationships, which was enough of a kick up the ass to be like, you can't
01:18:34
live like this, mate. Like, come on. You got like look what you've been through.
01:18:37
You can do this. And so, I went to a naturopath and I went to a hypnotherapist. I found a wellness
01:18:43
coach. I you name it, I've tried it. Um, and so thankfully I ch like I changed
01:18:50
psychologists to someone with a bit more PTSD experience and like the wellness coach and the my new psych like holy
01:18:57
[ __ ] like they are worth their weight and gold. They just changed my life. And
01:19:02
so in the last what are we now? April. >> Yeah, April. >> 10ish months. Um, I've been, yeah,
01:19:09
basically overhauling my life and, um, cuz, yeah, I just, I just got the biggest kick out of the ass. And it
01:19:15
finally made me realize like even though like all this terrible stuff has happened to you and that wasn't your
01:19:21
fault, the rest is now your responsibility. PTSD is my responsibility. The trauma is my
01:19:26
responsibility. Surviving living from here on out is my responsibility. And I can either live like that, lose all my
01:19:32
relationships, or I can just keep going. And it's like I just have to keep going.
01:19:40
And like I had this like brief chat with um Damian from Blind Spot. And honestly,
01:19:45
I reckon he helped save my life cuz >> No, how so? >> He So um >> he's a great guy, by the way. Damian
01:19:51
Alexander. >> I love them. >> Yeah. Great. How did your paths cross?
01:19:54
Were you a blind spot fan? >> Yeah. So, The Rock sent me to two of their gigs. Um, yeah, two of their gigs.
01:20:02
And um I didn't really I spoke probably more to Sheldon than Damian, but um there was in September I think it was
01:20:13
September um the rock is there rock 2000 and one of their new songs um tonight played and they had this little snippet
01:20:20
of Damian talking about the song and like the how how it had came to be like where his headsp space was at when he
01:20:28
wrote it and it just struck a chord and so I messaged him. I was just like, "Dude, I am in the darkest part of my
01:20:33
life and just heard heard you talking about this song and I was just like, I just I needed that. Like, thank you.
01:20:41
Just keep doing what you're doing." And he sent me back this massive message. I
01:20:44
bled my eyes out. I saved it as my background for like 3 months cuz I I just like read it every day and just be
01:20:50
like, "Come on, you can do this." But in short, it was like, "You just got to
01:20:53
keep turning up. Just turn up. Just keep turning up. Like even if you keep getting hit in the face, turn up." And
01:20:59
so, >> it's easier said than done though, isn't it? which it is. It is um and like when
01:21:03
you're exhausted like physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, just everything like everything's at 0% or
01:21:10
negative. Um it is hard and I didn't want to do it. I don't want to do it. I
01:21:14
don't want to do that. I still don't want to do it. But it's like what choice
01:21:17
do I have? It's like so it's kind of just got me to this point now where it's
01:21:21
just like I've finally found things that are helping. Um it's got me out of that
01:21:26
dark hole um of the whole Yeah. just not being good. >> Um, and it doesn't mean I'm perfect.
01:21:33
Like I still have bouts of PTSD as I just mentioned down south and like I still have days where I just totally
01:21:39
just dissociate and but I know what that is now. Whereas like 2 years ago it would happen and people like what's
01:21:45
wrong? What's tell me what's going on. It's like I don't [ __ ] know. I just
01:21:48
I'm not right. I don't know what's going on. And they would be like what do you
01:21:51
mean you don't know? You should know like what's going on in your head. And
01:21:54
it's just like I don't know. And so people would just be like and leave cuz
01:21:58
they'd be like, "I don't know how to help you if you don't know what's going
01:22:00
on." And so they just walk away. And so it was like, "Well, now I don't feel
01:22:04
like I can talk to anyone because everyone's just giving me the same answer." So it was just like I just
01:22:09
basically just imploded. And it obviously exploded because that's what happens. You can't just shut down cuz
01:22:15
that doesn't work. >> So I'm changing my life because I don't want to be that person. I hated that
01:22:20
person, but I didn't know how to change it. >> But I have the help now to not be that
01:22:24
person. And I'm doing my damn best not to be that person again. >> Also, I guess beyond um scar scaring off
01:22:30
and driving away other people, it's like you've got to live with yourself.
01:22:33
>> So, you want to be comfortable in your own. >> And it's hard. Like I I reckon I put on
01:22:37
like 20 kgs of just stress. And it was just like cuz I was always in that fight flight. I'm never in that rest digest.
01:22:44
So, it was like anything I ate straight on my body. So, I hated the way I looked. I hated my brain. I just hated
01:22:51
everything about myself. And it was just like which sucks cuz it was like I've
01:22:55
survived all this stuff and everyone's and everyone's telling me you're so
01:22:58
inspirational, you're so strong, blah blah blah. And it's just like if only
01:23:01
you could be in my head right now. It's just like you would oh my god it was not
01:23:06
good. So and like I I do struggle to take the compliments like you've been saying to me and it's just like I I
01:23:13
struggle with it and I don't know whether that's yeah ever going to be better or not.
01:23:17
And um what's your relationship like now with your physical body? Like when you
01:23:21
when you when you get up in the morning and you're out of the shower and you see
01:23:24
yourself in front of the mirror like are you are you comfortable with what you see
01:23:27
>> enough like which is it's the stupid thing about it is it's got nothing to do
01:23:31
with scars. >> The scars I think kind of cool cuz it's like >> I mean and I can't change that.
01:23:37
>> Yeah. >> But it's like it's things I can change that I'm not happy with. So it's like
01:23:40
weight and like all these dumb stupid cosmetic things. It's like I am healthy.
01:23:45
Like I am boxing. I am doing bar. I'm doing reformer. I am doing matt pilates.
01:23:49
Like I am walking my dog two three times a day. It's like I could not be doing
01:23:54
more any any more physical exercise if I tried without killing myself. So it's
01:23:58
like physic I mean not lately cuz I went to the South Island and then I got like
01:24:01
this gastro bug last week. So I'm not good at the moment. [laughter] I have barely moved in the last two
01:24:07
weeks but um and then I sprained my shoulder and then while I was vomiting I ruined the shoulder. So it was just like
01:24:14
so I'm in a bit of a stage at the moment but I will get back cuz yeah all my
01:24:18
appointments are slowly starting to come back and so it's just yeah just another
01:24:22
little setback for me. >> And what what about at night when you when you put your head on the pillow and
01:24:27
shut the eyes? What are your dreams like? >> I don't really have any. >> Don't you
01:24:32
>> that's a good thing, right? >> I don't I I've had I think I can count
01:24:35
on one hand how many nightmares I've had since W Island. Um two of them have been
01:24:40
W Island. Um, and then the other three I I don't actually maybe it's just those
01:24:46
two. There's only been two. I've only ever had two major nightmares that I can
01:24:50
think of. And both of them were around White Island, but not what actually happened. It was just my brain making up
01:24:57
other random White Island things. >> Jeez, that's lucky, isn't it? I think.
01:25:00
>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like I Yeah. for all the symptoms of PTSD that I don't have. Um,
01:25:06
I'm glad I don't have the nightmares because I need like 11 hours of sleep to
01:25:11
be somewhat functional, which apparently is is a trauma thing cuz of like the hyper vigilance and stuff and I'm always
01:25:17
like always like looking for danger. >> Um, yeah, I do require a lot more rest
01:25:23
than the average person which sucks cuz then it's like I have a late night or I
01:25:26
have to get up early in the morning and it's like I don't function well.
01:25:29
>> Yeah. So, how old are you now? What are you 20? >> 2 29, >> right?
01:25:34
>> You've still got so much life to live, don't you? >> Hopefully.
01:25:37
>> Yeah. Oh, no. Absolutely you do. >> I mean, everyone keeps I've been people
01:25:40
have been saying for like the last eight years like that's your bad luck surely.
01:25:44
And then it's like something else [laughter] happens. And so it's just like everyone's like you're still young.
01:25:48
It's like Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So what's uh what's what's next? How's
01:25:52
the next 50 60 70 years going to look? >> Just survive, >> right? Oh, I think you've done that. You
01:25:58
>> boring survival would be nice, actually. >> You say surviving. I I'd say and I think
01:26:02
many other people would say thriving. Seriously. >> Yeah. Getting there. Getting there. I
01:26:06
think the aim is to basically I mean I don't really have a major aim um at the moment is just get my mind
01:26:13
right, get my brain right, find the things that work for me, get them into um like a routine that's I don't have to
01:26:20
think about. Um so that's my ultimate goal at this point is to just get that
01:26:24
[ __ ] sorted first. um get off the stupid bleeder blockers so I can actually start
01:26:30
doing [ __ ] Um and then yeah, go from there. I think that's my goal at this
01:26:35
point is get my head right first. >> Yeah, you you you're you're so driven
01:26:39
though. I I can't wait to see what you do and what you achieve in your life cuz
01:26:42
there's there's a lot more to come. Um so what are you doing for money? Like
01:26:46
there was the give a little page which um >> there was an this this is at the time of
01:26:49
the um explosion. There was an outpouring of support. $120,000 from thousands of small amounts, which is
01:26:56
which is humbling. I'm guessing that money is all gone. That was years ago. >> Um,
01:27:02
no, no, I don't mean that in a >> No, I'm just trying to think. Uh,
01:27:05
>> just day-to-day expenses and whatnot. >> Yeah. So, cuz, um, like I have ACC cuz
01:27:10
obviously it's a workplace incident. >> Oh, okay. >> Um, so ACC has been amazing. They've
01:27:15
been incredible. Um, >> so how much do you get like 80% of your income, the whole thing or
01:27:20
>> 80%? Yeah. Yeah. So, they pay 80% of my wage. Um, >> is that for the rest of your life or
01:27:27
>> until when if I go back to work? >> So, I just Yeah. If I can get my head
01:27:32
right and get the PTSD thing sorted, then I can probably work. >> Um, but at the moment, like any kind of
01:27:38
stress and I'm like and can't function. So, it's like no one's going to want
01:27:42
that. [laughter] >> I don't want that. >> Unless it's one of those restaurants
01:27:46
like um there was one that opened in Oakland called Karens where >> I'd be great there. I'm a thrive.
01:27:51
>> People go there to be abused by the staff. >> I'm thrive. [laughter] Um maybe I need
01:27:55
to do that. Um yeah, so at at the moment it's just get that [ __ ] sorted. Um but
01:28:00
yeah, so ACC and yeah, so I had to give a little page which was just oh man, that blew my mind. Like that made me cry
01:28:06
cuz >> Oh, it's humbling. It's people you don't know. And that's, you know, you were
01:28:10
saying before about some of the mean things that people wrote online. Yeah. >> The give a little people. They're
01:28:15
they're the majority in New Zealanders. Like not everyone's got money to give,
01:28:18
but that that represents most New Zealanders. >> Yeah. And I I remember when mom
01:28:23
>> mom showed it to me like this is when things had all started unraveling.
01:28:27
>> Um and I was in hospital. It was Yeah. December still sometime. And mom was
01:28:31
saying like this give a little set up for you. I was like, "Oh, nice. That's
01:28:35
that's good." And she was just like, "Do you want to have a look at it?" And I
01:28:38
was just like, "Yeah, right." And so she showed me the phone and my broken little
01:28:43
head thought it was 9 grand and I was like oh my god that's so amazing like n
01:28:48
grand and mom was like n and I was like yeah 9 grand cuz she taken the phone at this point. Um, and she was like, "It's
01:28:56
not 9 grand, it's 97 grand." >> And I was like, "What? Show me." And she
01:29:03
showed me again. And then it was like scrolling through the squeeze of messages. And I just like burst into
01:29:08
tears. And it was like, "Are you kidding me?" Like, "This is amazing." And some
01:29:12
of them were like ex um people I took on my island and some of them were like people I hadn't heard from since god
01:29:17
knows when. It was amazing. It was just incredible. >> Yeah. Yeah, I guess in a lot of ways the
01:29:21
like the comments that people wrote when they made a donation meant just as much
01:29:24
if not more than the money they >> Yeah, it was amazing. And so um when the
01:29:28
Give a Little page actually closed, mom got every single message printed out from Give a Little and is like put them
01:29:36
all together. So I've got them forever now. So I can just like read through them and it's just really nice.
01:29:40
>> Oh, that must be nice if you're having a rough day. >> Yeah. >> So what are the biggest learnings about
01:29:44
yourself in this whole thing? Are are you tougher than what you thought you were? Stronger than what Yeah. shitty.
01:29:50
>> Yeah. >> And like people say, "I could never get through what you've got through." And
01:29:54
it's just like, "Well, I don't have you don't have a choice." Like when you're
01:29:56
in that position, it's like your options are curl up in a ball and let the scar
01:30:00
tissue take over and die. Or it's just go this [ __ ] sucks and keep going. Like I've tried both ways and really
01:30:09
both of them suck, but one of them sucks way more and it Yeah. destroys everything around you as well. So it's
01:30:15
like you got to keep going. You have to find the help. you have to keep going and just make the best out of what
01:30:21
you've got left. Like otherwise, what's the point? >> That's probably a great way to end it.
01:30:27
Oh, c can I ask like why did you why did you you you are like generally quite private like I know you've been on that
01:30:33
Netflix movie. You share a bit on your own terms on your own Instagram. Um but you don't do a lot of this stuff and I
01:30:38
I'm so grateful that you did, but why why did you agree to come here today? Um I I guess yeah cuz last year was so
01:30:48
bad for me. Um possibly my worst I would say mentally my worst. Um I've kind of
01:30:55
got a bit more of a [ __ ] it attitude now. And so um yeah, [laughter] that's
01:31:02
mostly it. I'm kind of just trying to just just do more things and try more things and yeah, just try and be a bit
01:31:09
more of a yes guy instead of a hermit guy. >> Yeah. Well, and I'm I'm so pleased you
01:31:14
did because I I think you're remarkable and I think there's a lot of lot of
01:31:17
people that can get a lot of good from your story. Um because like what you've
01:31:20
been through is unimaginable and the way that you've deal dealt with it with um
01:31:24
like a fair amount of grace and humility. It's just remarkable. And all those um words we talked about before
01:31:31
that you curl your toes up at like um you're heroic and and brave and strong
01:31:36
and whatever else. They're they're all absolutely true and you you should be
01:31:40
giving yourself a pat on the back for the work you've done because no one's
01:31:43
motivating you to do it. You got to do it all yourself unfortunately and you have and you are and you continue to do
01:31:48
so. >> Thank you. >> I think we'll end it at that. Eh, >> all right.
01:31:52
>> Kelsey Wagghorn hero. Honestly, if if no one comes to give you a bravery
01:31:58
award or a courage award or whatever there is at some stage in the next couple of years, I'm going to [ __ ]
01:32:04
buy one myself and give it to you because you deserve little karate statues. [laughter]
01:32:10
>> A little plastic piggy. >> I can't wait. >> I um you're a great New Zealander and I
01:32:15
can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast today. >> Thank you.