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Willie Jackson, welcome to my podcast. Dom, good to be here, >> mate. It's great to have you here. We
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were just discussing this. Um, I I feel like I know you, but I think this is the
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first time we've met. >> I think that's the thing when you're on
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radio and and TV and all that sort of thing where we're sort of circling around each other all the time. E, and
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you think you know people and you don't sort of meet them really, you know. >> Well, I'm so pleased to have you here on
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the podcast today. >> Congratulations with your podcast. I think it's great. Um had a little bit of
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a look at what you've been doing and it's uh Yeah, you might be like Joe
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Rogan become a billionaire. Is he a billionaire or Rogan? >> Probably. Yeah.
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>> Different um Yeah. Economies of scale. >> It is a different economy. He's
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something else though, isn't he? >> Yeah. You are you a fan? >> Rogan. I like Rogan. Very good. Very
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fascinating because you know he started off he was a bit of a lefty then he got sick of it and went a bit to the right
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and he just wants he just wants to do good broadcasting. And what I found fascinating with him was, you know, he
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he wanted to um he wanted to interview, you know, uh the different pre, you know, Biden and all that lot, but they
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didn't want to do it. So, he interviewed Trump and that, you know, and all of a
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sudden he's back, I could understand why he was talking about um Trump at least
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with being accessible. You know, Trump knows how to play the media. That's how
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it goes. >> Yeah. Carmela Harris I think um she wanted it done like on her terms that
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rather than being at his studio and she wanted it to be a 1-hour limit and he requests three hours put some
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stipulations in place. >> I mean Rogan Rogan's fascinating fascinating life and and what I like is
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you know he has such a wide range of um guests and so I I I don't get into the
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even though people will say oh you know he's just a lefty and all that. Not really. I I I'm I'm into you know I can
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I can work with the best of them who are on the right. I work with Tomi for years. Look at that. He was, hey, before
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he became the new Malcolm X, he was uh, you know, he was more down the Allen Duff track when I was when I when him
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and I were working together. >> What's your what is your take on on Trump? I suppose you you can say
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whatever you want because by by the time you are potentially back in back in in in government, um, he'll be gone.
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>> I I think it's well, I mean, you know, obviously I don't support Trump's
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politics, but I found it fascinating the way he got in. Um, I think he's a product of the Democrats, uh, you know,
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basically forgetting about the working class. He went in there and promised them thing, you know, like like people
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were just sick and tired of the establishment, whether it was Republicans or Democrats and Trump just
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turned the whole world over. You know, I was doing radio with Ellie Moore at the
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time and 216 when he came on and yeah, it was 216, I think, when he first came in. Poor old Ellie, she was uh having a
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few tears, you know, and I was just fascinated by it all. I don't get all I don't get worried about it too much and
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but I understand you know cuz he's such a uh you know he's so anti- um I suppose
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anti- someone some would say anti- everything that uh that people like me stand for but I I I don't see it like
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that. I see it as half of America supported him and I respect that, you know, and and I keep saying to I I'd
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never vote for him, but I keep saying to my mates and all all the ones that hate
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him. Uh not everyone who supported Trump was a racist. Not everyone was uh you know, anti- the left. There were just so
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a lot of people who were forgotten in America. He tapped into that. So I think you just got to give credit where
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credit's due. >> What about his communication style? Is he a maniac? Well, yeah, but absolutely.
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But that's what works, doesn't it? You know, you you having been a former
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maniac on radio and very popular, you know, like ma maniacal works sometimes, you know. I mean, just look at some of
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our great broadcasters. Paul Henry, total maniac, you know, exceptional broadcaster. Holmes was the same, too. I
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knew Paul pretty well. He used to listen to our talk back all the time, you know,
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and uh I mean, jeez, he was off the edge, but brilliant. And I think that comes with the territory sometimes if
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you want to do really well in these sort of positions or in politics. I mean, you
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never seen anything like Trump. It's just like, what the hell did we just see?
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>> It's chaotic. >> I watched him at the UN the other day and he just uh he just a rubbish night
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at the tongue, you know, for the young fellow who got sadly assessed. >> Charlie K.
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>> Charlie K. And just and he was saying, you know, Charlie and his wife, they're
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very forgiving. I'm not, you know, and this was at the funeral. I mean, just
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fascinating Trump. So, I'm no I'm no supporter, but I do understand um I
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understand the game. >> You mentioned the UN just a second ago. Uh just to time stamp this conversation,
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so we're recording this at the beginning of October, and it was just a couple of
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days ago that um your old mate Winston um spoke at the UN and said New Zealand was um wasn't re recognizing Palestine
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as a as a state. Um yeah. What do you think about that? >> Well, he's a total disgrace.
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>> Um, I wrote I did a Facebook on it. It went through the read through the roof.
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Uh, and of course all the New Zealand First crew jumped on. How can you do that? Talk about Winston. But I just
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think it's time for us to be courageous. That's uh that's I've always been a
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Palestinian supporter always. But, you know, I I always understood the two-state solution, but it's not a
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two-state solution. Now, I was I was surprised by Winston going down that track. Embarrassed though. you know, now
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we're trailing behind Australia, the Canada, the UK, and and very much in the
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Trump position, aren't we? You know, and when you look at the devastation and the
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hell that we're seeing in Gaza, and I'm no supporter of Hamas at all. I I
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absolutely condemn what they did, you know, but two wrongs don't make a a right, Dom. Two wrongs don't make a
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right. So, of course, I People go, "Oh, do you support terrorists?" No, I don't
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support terrorists, but I don't, you know, when you see that misery, we're
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seeing it every day. It is a nightmare. It is s is so sad. Winston should have stood up. And it was a pretty um such a
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hugely disappointing decision from him. And I put a Facebook out and it just went went crazy. But I thought he would
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have done better than that cuz look on the other side of things, he's a pretty
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capable foreign minister, isn't he? You know, not bad for an 80year-old. >> Do you do you like the guy
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>> Winston? >> Yeah. >> SADLY, YES. SADLY, YES. YES, I do like him. And uh
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sorry there my my Labour mates who might be watching this today. I Well, I work with Winston, you know. And uh it's a
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funny story really because uh No, it's a funny story because when I first went
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into parliament, I first stood in 96 and then in 99 JT and I stood and JT used to hate him and he used to have
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these effiges and and burn him and burn him and all this sort of stuff. But I watched him support the Do you remember
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the tight five and all that sort of stuff? Tohinar and all that lot. Yeah. And I watched him support them and and
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call all the he called the Labour Party out and he called them racists and everything and I thought, gee, there's
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something to this guy. And then they betrayed Winston and and and I thought, huh? Then they they went and did a deal
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with Jenny Shipley. Winston did the course. They all got kicked out and he and he stayed in. So when I got in in
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99, I thought, I'm going to get to know Winston. So shook went and met, you know, we had a bit of a catch up and uh
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yeah, sort of become mates over that time, you know, used to go out with him to the Green Parrot and fascinating um
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fascinating uh years. And then when I was on radio, of course, he used to come on with me on radio all the time. Every
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time he'd come on the uh the radio would go crazy, talk back. They just loved him
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on Talkback. So yeah, I do like him, but but complex, you know, because uh you know, he can he's just, you know, he's
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great company and then he comes out with some of the most crackpot ideas, you know, like what's happening there and
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he's got this problem with New Zealand, right? He doesn't want it to be called
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Alti at all. I mean, for goodness sake, cut it. Cut it out. Cut it out, Winston.
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You know, and he's got Shane Jones with him. Shane, you know, I don't know if
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you know, is one of the best multil language speakers in the country. And old Shane Pussycat Jones doesn't say a
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word, you know. Old Jonesy knows and and Winston's going, "No, we're not a we are
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new. We're both Winston. Cut it out." So, no. Fascinating uh character. Of
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course, I like him. But, you know, we we'll have our battles and but you know
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those just bad that's that's what happens. You have your battles. Doesn't
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mean you have to all hate each other. >> I I think one thing that um people love
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about you is first of all, you're you're bloody funny and you're very
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charismatic, but also I don't know about that. You you you say um you say exactly
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what you think and you tell it like uh how it is for Willie Jackson. >> So we've established the um relationship
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with Winston. What about some other people? Seymour. >> What about Seymour?
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>> You like the guy? >> I don't know. >> I don't I don't I don't particularly
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dislike him. It might be neutral. He's just got so much on my nerves over the
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last few years. You know, I did call him a useless Maldy. You remember that? Well, it wasn't actually that. was
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actually a useless Mai advocate. That's what I called him. And uh cuz he, you
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know, he's so hopeless in terms of advocating for Maldi. What disappoints me with him is that him and I worked
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together before, you know, like built a school together in 2015, you know, and I
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worked with him on the youth in Asia stuff. So, you know, he's very capable,
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but I I just think that his um treaty stuff is out of control. Um he should know better than that. Uh he uh you
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know, I called him a liar in the house. Doesn't mean I hate him or anything. Him
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and I can see each other. We're quite cordial to each other, you know, cuz I
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I'll give it to him, you know, he he's pretty capable, you know, but um yeah,
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like I don't know. I've gone off him a bit over the last couple to but but you
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know, if we if I we run into each other, I'm not the type to, you know, cuz he
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has never abused me. >> We we we attack each other in the house, so we're cordial. He went over to Oxford
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recently and I was in Oxford University the year before. So, um, but fascinating
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character, but you you can see the the the people who he's got behind him. Um,
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I think dangerous though, Dom, you know, I think dangerous, and that's why I'm
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I'm I'm really disappointed with him because I think he encourages um a group in the country that uh
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there's there's obviously some good people who follow Seymour. Let's let me
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get that on the record. But there's an ugly crew in this country that support
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Seymour. He knows them, too. And that ugly crew, they just hate people like me. They hate my guts, you know. They uh
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I've seen that for years. I see it on Facebook. And they love Seymour. Now, David probably wouldn't even, you know,
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I don't think he'd even mix with these sorts of people, but there's an ugly
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ugly element in New Zealand who just hate Maldi. They just hate us. That's not the majority. Most Kiwis are good.
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You know, when I'm out there, you know, I enjoy New Zealanders. I'm proud of
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Kiwis. Uh come here. I'm proud of you and your ex. I'm good with you and the
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exposes a je getting on well. Eh, >> you got a business TOGETHER FOR EVERYONE.
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>> NO, NO, but I look at guys like you. I look at the Sky TV team, you know, I was
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I don't know if you saw they all into the real Maldi and all that. That's the
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I reckon that's the new New Zealand, you see. And David is with through his idiot
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treaty principles bill has encouraged too many of this ugly mob to come on. See, so see so he'll sit in here with
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you and he'll go there's no partnership. You know, you would have heard him
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there. In fact, in fact, I saw somebody sent me the cut. There's no partnership.
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Well, there is cuz the judges said there was 1987 and every prime minister's back
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there. Why? Why are you so scared of a partnership, David Seymour? You know, so what you're doing is encouraging, as I
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said, the ugliest, most racist mob in the country. I know who this mob is, you see, because they regularly send me
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emails and all and they they hate me. And I think, why do these people hate me so much? I'm not a person like like I
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can show you people who don't like park hours. I can tell you people who will say to
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you, Dom, you're just a guest in this country. Yeah. Like I want to be your partner. I want to work with you. This
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lot anyone like me who sort of just advocates for Mai. >> I'm a pro Mai person, but I'm a pro Kiwi
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person. I support the working class, too. Um, but they say, "Oh, no, Jackson's dangerous. He actually wants
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to take the whole country. He's a racist. This is" And that's who David
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encourages. And I and and that's why he disappoints me. His treaty principles
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bill. He says, "Well, he called me a liar." That's because he was a liar. His
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lie is this. He says that um I'm not li He says, "I'm not lying about the treaty
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principles. He wants to change the treaty of of Wangi." >> And then he says that he doesn't want
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to. He wants to change it. >> So that's someone who's telling lies,
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you know, and I've been quite open about it. He takes it on the chin. He can
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handle it. But um you know, why change something that's working? And and I think if you you've traveled a bit, no
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doubt, Dom, you come back to New Zealand, you walk around. Yeah, it's pretty good.
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>> The relationship. Yeah, we're very lucky. They're good relationships.
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>> Keep and I I I reckon, Dom, that most >> I think New Zealand's changed, you know,
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as you said, as you found out, I'm 64. I remember what it was like when I was 34,
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you know, and it wasn't that bad then either, but it's it's got a lot uh it's
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got a lot better as people have started to understand the treaty. A lot of our kids park our kids and all that or
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learning the real fabulous you know uh you know I think the language is there for everyone. I think maldi is there for
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everyone. That's what partnership's all about. And David doesn't want to go down
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that track. I think it's because he's he's two women hooked into his atlas
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mates and uh rolling out their agenda or something along those lines. But it's
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really disappointing and discouraging I suppose. >> Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that. One
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thing I've got from doing this podcast for three and three and a half years now
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is that when you're sitting this close at a table across someone, it it's
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generally impossible to dislike someone up. >> How you going to say you don't like me?
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>> No, no, no. I'm saying anyone anyone that's that's that's racist or says they
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they hate Maldi. It's like a general statement. There's so much um of the
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Willie Jackson story to talk about and I'm so excited to have you here unpack.
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>> So Willie Jackson, who is he away from the titles and the public roles? I just
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I'm just a proud father and grandfather and you know and uh um I love my kids
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and mukapunas and uh yeah but it's um it's a funny thing really we're talking
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politics politics always with us e for people like me but >> but you know most of most of your you
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know your mates and all that sort of thing but like you Dom they're not really polit they don't really you know
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you just see people and you they're not really into politics are you know I just
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love um I love people. I enjoy people. That's why I love media so much like yourself.
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>> Love radio, love TV. Um and I I used to enjoy talkback. I mean, I was um doing
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talkback for 10 217 like 10 years I did talk back for. So talk back and I just enjoyed it, loved it. So just I enjoy
00:14:42
people. >> So you um grew up in Padidora? >> Pida. Well, I we left Pyidora when I was
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10. >> Yeah. And you live lived in South Oakland ever since? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. South. Why do why do
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you love South Oakland so much? >> I love it because of real people, you know. Um I was brought up on the I
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suppose poor side of Maradi, you know, like with state houses and same in Puddere. We're in state houses and that
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and uh um and but you know you you know we had a good upbringing, you know. Um but you know you're in when you're in
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when we were in Portidua and when we first came to Mangi you're in areas where people don't have much money but
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mom and dad were always they're good good parents you know even though like particular in Portidu you sort of we
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were in the middle of blinking once were warriors country sort of thing you know
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you parties all around but we I was lucky in terms of my upbringing and uh what the the values instilled in me by
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mom and dad. Yeah, it seemed like you had really good parents. So, dad Bob was a warie. U crazy good chess player.
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>> Oh, yeah. Fabulous chess player. >> Um and earned a degree at 40.
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>> He did. He went to went to went to Yeah. Well, he was a first language moldy
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speaker. So, bombed at school and all that and then came back and trained himself and got himself a degree and
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over five years between uh 40 and 45. So, yeah, he um terrific and he was a fabulous chess player. Pass he passed
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that chess stuff on to my son who's a bit of a gun. Uh, and I put my boy into
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Kings College and uh, he he he was the top chess player there. It was quite funny because when we put him there,
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we'd we'd um been speaking mildy to him all his life. So, he went to Kings and
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he was in the bottom class like cuz, you know, he could, you know, his English was okay, but he was always making
00:16:23
mistakes. Next minute he trots off to the chess club and, you know, he can beats everyone in chess and these
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Chinese kids are going, "What class are you in?" You know, I mean, these kids
00:16:32
are like the cleverest kids in the country. And he's in the I said to him, "Yeah, that's okay, son. You're in the
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dumbest class, but you you'll beat them all at chess." E. So, the old man is
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funny that chess. I wish my boy had of um uh because he was so good. He should have I should have taken him out because
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we've got one of our mates in parliament who his name's escaped me. He's one of
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our he's one of the best chess players in the country. I should have taken him
00:16:55
to a top chess because he's international chess master. Vernon. Vernon Small, I think, isn't it? Yeah.
00:17:00
Vernon. Yeah. And uh um he's um journalist, top journalist, great chess player, but I wish I had have done that
00:17:05
with Boy because uh I would have liked to have seen how far he would have went. But yeah, the old man was, you know,
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they all wies, you know, you know the wolfies in those days, they only work about two or three hours and then they'd
00:17:16
be playing chess and drafts and then they best laboring job in the country. >> That's where he cut his teeth on the
00:17:22
chessboard. And your mom June um New Zealand's longest serving parole board member.
00:17:27
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And um yeah actually >> very humble very humble beginnings. So
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um mom she was a cleaner to start off with you know I said in parliament I always when I when I first did spoke
00:17:38
there um I said my mom used to clean the courts down there and she went from cleaner to
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>> oh she was we're very proud of her you know CEO. She was top CEO parole board
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member got a damehood. >> Yeah. Yeah. I've got a photo here. This is your mom. This is your mom getting um
00:17:53
>> damehood eh >> damehood. >> And I'm not into dame hoods. I told him
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I told her I I told her to reject it, but she told me to go jump in the lake >> and go and hook up with my radical
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relation. She said, "I love the queen and if you don't like it, don't come
00:18:05
along." >> But look how she's smiling in that photo. It obviously means something to
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her. >> I was so proud. She was so proud of it. Eh. Oh, no. I I I was I was look I
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organized. We had 800 people there, you know, John Banks and them all came. Len Brown, everybody came along and because
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it was a year of the mealy >> and uh I was just very proud of her even though as I said I'm not into damehoods
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and knighthoods. I want us to do what Helen Clark said once which was have our own
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>> have our own identity and all that but uh >> I mean she went from cleaner to um 20
00:18:37
years on the parole board. Man, it was incredible and great CEO man. We had some stories from her. So she saw the
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worst of our society in many ways. Mom always said >> mom always said that that 99% of the
00:18:50
country is okay but there's a 1% that you cannot turn around. You know there's
00:18:55
an evil side and she said son you just can't turn them around. It's an evilness
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that she said that it's almost hard to describe. So but she always felt you could turn around just about just about
00:19:05
anyone else. >> I tell you we used to see every blink and you wouldn't believe what we saw
00:19:10
when we were young. you know, ex-murderers coming through the house and they all used to bow their head to
00:19:15
mom, you know. >> Did she have any sort of I don't know if this is even a conversation you had, but
00:19:20
did she have any sort of perspective on whether evil people are born or made? Um
00:19:25
they were they they she said it could it's her view was they were made you know like some some of them
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>> you know you know if you're going to treat someone like an animal >> from the day they they they are born
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>> then they're going to act like an animal you know you know baby can't be born
00:19:42
evil. Yeah, >> but the if the baby is treated like an animal and she said some of the some of
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these ones who are evil were a product of evil, you know, and um you know, mom was fascinating. We had um we had a guy
00:19:56
called um and I'll say his name, his name was Les Green, and you should look
00:20:01
him up. And he was the um longest serving uh one of the longest serving prisoners in the country. He's like 28
00:20:09
28 years. Uh and anyway, Harle gets out of prison and they also he was also one of the most dangerous. Comes out of
00:20:16
prison. Nobody there's a big article you should it's all over the listen listener
00:20:19
if you look back at his life. He's gone now. Um he got out of prison. Nobody
00:20:24
wanted him there. Everybody was too scared, right? What does mom do? Mom says, "Oh, come and stay with us at the
00:20:28
Marai, you know." So mom brings him to the Marai and then and he and he stays
00:20:33
with us. And then I says, "Oh, he was pretty bad. Oh no, he was just a he was
00:20:37
just a robber. He just bank robbery. very famous bank. She says, "Oh, okay.
00:20:41
All right." Then the police talked to me and they go, "You know, your mom's got
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that le." Yeah. >> I shouldn't tell you this, I suppose. >> No, no. Anyway, so these people talk to
00:20:52
me anyway. >> No, it's it's painting a picture of who your mom's like. It's obviously a lady
00:20:56
that could see good in anyway. >> Well, anyway, these friends of mine, they said I shouldn't have said, please,
00:21:00
but never mind. They said to me, you know that Le Green, we don't have the proof, but we think he's murdered about
00:21:05
seven or eight people, right? I says, "What? His mom brought a murderer onto
00:21:10
the Mariah. And they go, "Well, we don't have the proof." And so I go to mom. I
00:21:14
say, "Mom, what are you doing? We got the Ker, we got the you got a murderer
00:21:18
down there." And she goes, "Oh, son. It was it was Mr. Asia days." You know,
00:21:22
they just kill each other. You know, the bad people and you know, like they all they all they're terrible people. They
00:21:28
one shoots this one or one shoots that one. Who cares? Like they never touch the good people. And I don't know who I
00:21:35
don't know. I don't even want to know about it. And I said, "So, we're going
00:21:37
to leave them there?" And she said, "Yes, we're going to leave them there."
00:21:40
And oh, so it was she was so crazy. And then one one I'll tell you, one Christmas, one Christmas, she puts on a
00:21:46
party for all the judges, right? Because she's she's the senior lady of the
00:21:50
parole board. Puts a party on at home and mom's got everybody serve. Anyway,
00:21:54
she gets less green to be a waiter. So he's he's serving these judges, right? He's
00:22:01
serving these judges. And the judges are looking at him thinking, "We know this
00:22:06
guy," you know, but and she go and she made him dress up and Le goes around and
00:22:11
oh, it's incredible. And anyway, about a week or two later, she the mom says,
00:22:16
"The judges remembered who my who my waiter was." I says, "Well, mom, you didn't break the
00:22:21
law. It was your home." You know, she had Peter Sharp was there. And so De Yeah. And um he was he was an incredible
00:22:30
um well, it was just an incredible history. So he stayed at the Mariah a few years, had a bit of a sad end. I had
00:22:35
to kick him off the Mariah when I when I, you know, got a bit out of control and he died on his own, but we gave him
00:22:40
support till the end, but >> you know, the gangs came over when he came over. They thanked us,
00:22:47
>> they thanked us for for taking him in, and he actually didn't cause any
00:22:50
problems in all those all those years. So, >> uh, yeah, have a look up at his history.
00:22:55
That was quite a history. used to come to Christmas and I tell you it's it's
00:22:59
amazing how people can turn their lives around. Dom I I've seen mom did some
00:23:03
incredible things. You know I don't know if you're I'll tell you one other story
00:23:06
before we move on. Um she she was she was fearless. There was a terri terrible um
00:23:14
No, I won't tell you that story. It's probably too No good >> selfensoring. No, that's that's probably
00:23:21
too much. Mom wouldn't want me to tell you that. But she she she's a person who
00:23:25
would go to bat for some of the worst people whether they were murderers, rapists,
00:23:29
and she'd go like when they were coming out like she'd she'd say, "Keep them
00:23:32
in." When they'd come out, mom would go to bed for them and say, "Let them out
00:23:37
now. Bring them to me." And mom would and they'd go, "Oh, it's 3 months too
00:23:41
early, June. Never mind. Bring them out. I need to I want to I want cuz if they're coming back into society, I want
00:23:46
to get them right." >> And so that's the sort of stuff she would do. And she brought out, I tell
00:23:50
you, Dom, some of the worst rapists and all that you would believe. Like, we were we were nervous. They never
00:23:56
reaffended. >> And and the the worst stuff for for us was when she'd bring pedophiles onto the
00:24:02
Mariah. And I I I we were very angry about that. We had a huge fight over that one day. And she said, "Son, if I
00:24:10
don't do this, who looks after them? >> I'm managing them. you they will not go
00:24:16
get step out um out of line. So she cornered them off and they never stepped down a line
00:24:23
because she said they step out of line, they know what they'll get, you know,
00:24:27
and you know, stuff like that. Brave, courageous, and uh proud of her work and what she did, you know.
00:24:33
>> Yeah, I can tell, mate. I can tell. That's really cool. >> And you know, she got some of that
00:24:35
Alzheimer's at the end. Not a good way for people to go, you know. Not >> Yeah, you Yeah, you lost her on um March
00:24:41
28, 2022. So it's fairly fairly recently. Yeah. >> Yeah. It must have been difficult seeing
00:24:47
such a like a a proud a proud woman decline with Alzheimer's >> in the last couple of years particularly
00:24:52
when um you know she was so vivaceious and I couldn't stop talking and >> then all of a sudden no more
00:24:58
communication. It's one of the saddest things you can see. You know it's like a
00:25:02
walking dead you know they're they're alive but it's like they're living dead
00:25:06
almost you know. So how how many years before that before her passing was your proper lucid conversation with
00:25:11
>> it's funny really cuz she got it she was like 82 83 when she died she first
00:25:15
started contracting at around 70 69 70 she was actually all right till about 78 79 you know she yeah she was losing her
00:25:23
her her her she she she didn't know you know her short-term stuff was gone but
00:25:28
pretty good and then in the last couple of years full communications just shut down so very sad but that's lifetime you
00:25:34
know and a lot of people have to go through that Yeah. I I've heard you talking about
00:25:38
your school years and uh you said you were a failure at school. >> Um yeah. How did that label affect the the
00:25:45
way that you saw yourself at the time? Obviously you had smart jeans. Like your parents your parents were smart people,
00:25:51
right? >> Yeah. I mean I was um at school I was just I I could talk, you know. I was actually I used to win
00:25:58
speech competitions and all that. So I said, but I I'm one of those people who
00:26:02
was hopeless, you know, like I'd go on the exam and for some reason something
00:26:06
used to happen. I don't know why. I used to be in some of the top classes and
00:26:09
that and I just uh some something hit me. I I was able to control it later on, but when I was like 15 cuz those were
00:26:17
the days you're you you're fair bit younger than me, eh? >> I'm 52.
00:26:23
>> So you're 10 years. >> I remember school. You talking about school and second year fifth and did you
00:26:26
do all that? >> 100%. It was the worst fear ever being held back again. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, so I couldn't h I
00:26:31
couldn't handle it, you know, and um and so I just s but I sort of always thought
00:26:36
I'll work this out, you know, when I came out of when I came out of school and all that went into the um went into
00:26:41
the works and all that cuz I had a uh um you got to have a bit of a plan e in life. So I thought I'm not going to just
00:26:47
stay on the chain and and and work on the chain and all that sort of stuff. I'll um I'll find a way out. And uh uh
00:26:54
because you know in those days if you didn't get your school C or UE you going
00:26:57
straight to the factory or you know you didn't you didn't get into any of the
00:27:00
sort of flash jobs that were going but I just think with you you got to have a plan. It's funny you talk about school
00:27:07
in the Labour Party is only Damian O' Connor and myself with only two without
00:27:12
degrees. Two old buggers. You know you know Damian don't you? Yeah he's he's
00:27:16
pretty neat old Damian. >> So when when did you leave school? >> I thought I was 17.
00:27:20
>> 17. Okay. And you went straight straight to AFCO or something? >> Yeah, I went into a factory and I went
00:27:25
went and worked on a farm with my grandparents for a year, then came back and worked in the freezing works after
00:27:29
that when I was 18. Yeah. And seven years in the works. Yeah. >> Yeah. What was that like? I've heard you
00:27:34
describe um the freezing works as hellish. >> Oh, it's hellish if you worked on the
00:27:39
chain. And what's the like you do, you know, you're killing the sheep and
00:27:44
cutting their throat and you might have one um job and you've got what your one
00:27:47
job is one cut all day with a knife and that's it. You know, you just have one
00:27:51
cut, one and you imagine doing that like like that for six hours a day or something. So that you know like that
00:27:57
was like when I first got started working on the chain and all that I thought oh bucket this I I know how to
00:28:03
talk. So I I used to go to the meetings and I saw the you know the union stuff started happening and um I thought oh I
00:28:10
can do that and so I ended up being a delegate then I ended up being a union president and when you're a union
00:28:15
president you you're not really you don't have to work on the chain that
00:28:17
much you know you have to you're running meetings you all got so I found a way
00:28:20
off you know and then I became a sort of full-time union official after that. Yeah.
00:28:24
>> Yeah. And this this is really young too like 21 years old. >> 21 how how was that like how was that
00:28:29
like did you have imposter syndrome? Did did you find older people you were dealing with struggled to take you
00:28:34
seriously being >> basically a kid? >> Yeah. Well, no, not really because I
00:28:39
used to st cuz I I I did a you know I did a lot of reading and I used to in the works you got to become a man pretty
00:28:45
quickly particularly if you um if you're fronting for men. So I I I was a delegate for about 60 people and and
00:28:53
there few women too but mainly men. Um I was a delegate for 60 men and then I was
00:28:58
uh then when I was a president I was a president for about 3 400 people and uh no they took me seriously because I I I
00:29:05
was um I sort of dad had brought us up in politics and I knew about good principles and values and they quite
00:29:11
liked it and I was moldy too and and in those days mainly the union officials were all PA and so all the Maldis liked
00:29:18
it and the Pacifica liked it. So it was a real honor and and I did I was in the works for seven years. and I was
00:29:23
official for about 5 years and then I started I I walked worked into the went into the the unions with my uncle Sid
00:29:30
Jackson. I don't know if you remember him but uh started working with him and
00:29:33
then went into the service workers union with Mark Gosh and and so I was a union
00:29:37
official for about 17 years. Yeah. >> You you were sort of destined for a life
00:29:42
in advocacy somehow, weren't you? >> With your family family background.
00:29:46
Well, I yeah, I suppose so because you know um dad was a strong advocate, but my uncle Sid Jackson was the leader of
00:29:53
the protest movement. He was the leader of Natamau and and his wife uh um was Auntie Hana. Uh Jackson, this young Hana
00:30:01
who's in parliament now is named after her. That's that's her nanny and she's a
00:30:06
she's really lovely Hannah. And uh >> um I told her how close I was to her
00:30:11
nanny. So um they were my um you know uncle was a was my role model and then my other uncle was u guy called Moana
00:30:19
Jackson I don't you heard of him he was a top legal Maldi advocate in the country as my father's other brother so
00:30:25
they were they were strong advocates for Maldi and so from from a very young age
00:30:31
I've um I I really do enjoy and and find it a privilege to advocate for people
00:30:36
when you when you when I was union president you know I was always negotiating wages is um plus I used to
00:30:42
manage a lot of the boys uh wages cuz they had no idea, you know, they'd go and spend them in the pub and all that.
00:30:49
So the girlfriends and wives used to ring me. >> Is this when you got like a brown
00:30:52
envelope with the cash? >> And I used to say, right, no, I used to do the budgets and I go, "Right, just
00:30:58
see." And I'd go and tell them, "Right, you're not getting a full wage this
00:31:01
week." And you know, so so the wives would get the cuz they what you know, sometimes I get flinging phone calls.
00:31:07
Well, I got no money cuz they spend always spend the money down the path. So, you know, it just was a good way of
00:31:12
life for me, you know, in terms of managing people's lives, good training. Uh, and um, as well as that, you know,
00:31:20
you're negotiating, you're advocating, you're speaking at big meetings. Um and
00:31:24
you you also you have to be um you have to be very strong too because we used to
00:31:29
have strikes and those were the days when we'd have we wouldn't have one week
00:31:32
strikes we'd have five six week strikes you know and that's hard because you
00:31:36
have to manage faro you have to manage families and uh you have to work make sure everyone's eating and all that sort
00:31:41
of stuff so for me it was sort of impeccable training for later in life you know and uh when I left the work so
00:31:48
I continued in that with the in you know with the union organizing >> as well as doing lots of other things,
00:31:54
you know, I got that's >> so so many other things. Yeah. Freeze freezing worker, um bouncer,
00:31:59
broadcaster, sports broadcaster, band manager, all black manager, Frank Buns, uh trade union leader, urban moldy
00:32:08
advocate, politician. Um yeah, out of all those, did I miss anything? Did that sort of cover take it all off?
00:32:13
>> Oh, we had a I had a record label. >> Did you? >> Yeah. Tata Records with a guy called Tim
00:32:18
Moon. I don't know if you've heard of Tim Moon. We did um so we had we our
00:32:22
label was the u uh most well-known indigenous label in the country. Uh we did the once a warrior soundtrack which
00:32:29
was fantastic for the for the movie once a warriors and had tamarinder and all them in there and you would have you you
00:32:35
would have heard Tim and them singing once a time Mr. Wolf and all that sort of stuff. So south side of Bombay well
00:32:40
they were southside part of my crew you know they were I tour managed them and all that sort of stuff. So that was a
00:32:45
great time too looking after um I loved the maldi music you know and I saw so much talent in in those days but doing
00:32:52
once a warrior soundtrack was one of the great things I was funny actually I was
00:32:56
talking to someone about it and and Tim used to live by us he was he him and Kim
00:33:02
he was with a woman called Kim will remember when the cats away. >> Yeah. Yeah. So they they live they got a
00:33:06
son James together. >> That's right. That's right. So I was with my first wife and we were two
00:33:10
houses three houses away. So we were all mates. We all worked on radio together.
00:33:14
And when I was bouncing, um Tim used to come over and uh spa with us. Couldn't
00:33:19
find his way out of a paper bag. And hopefully he doesn't hear this. But he's
00:33:25
my good mate, Tim. And I couldn't fight to save himself. Anyway, he said he was
00:33:29
going to be Jake the M, you see. So he used to last about 10 seconds when we because we used to cuz when you're
00:33:34
bouncing, you have to we used to train all the time at home because we you had to particularly in South Oakland. And uh
00:33:41
um and yeah, Tim would drop drop him and we'd go he'd say, "Yeah, I'm going to do
00:33:45
this. Jake the master." We go, "You're too small for that. Cut it out." Well,
00:33:48
when he did it, >> wasn't he fantastic? We were just he wasing it was so we were so proud of
00:33:55
him, you know, and um >> I think what made it even more surprising was it was just off the back
00:34:00
of Shortland Street as Dr. Roberta. So it was like the just this transformation that just caught everyone off and and
00:34:06
they did the angles right and it was it was it was 94. It's incredible really.
00:34:11
And um a lot of us of course really hated once we're warriors to see like we
00:34:16
were sort of we thought it was um you know being younger I suppose we thought it showed all the worst aspects
00:34:23
of Tia Maldi so we pro protested on it and Lee Tamahi we said a seller and Tim was saying what are you doing you know
00:34:31
what was this you know we're just acting bro you know and it was really quite
00:34:35
funny and but as I got older I thought you know artists have got to do what they got to do you know And uh you know
00:34:41
and I'm really proud of Tim and proud of Cliff Curtis, you know, uh seeing seeing
00:34:46
what they've done and and you just got to like when I was younger I I think um
00:34:51
I was I think I was probably too judgmental because although we loved Tim but we just thought once were warriors
00:34:57
like God could anything have gone did was there anything positive about that family? you know, they had child
00:35:03
molestation, alcoholism, drug dealing, everything, you know, >> and uh um uh and so and and it hit us a
00:35:11
lot because, you know, some of us, we were living right there, you know, like they they shot the Onceful were warriors
00:35:17
pub scene like less than a kilometer from our house, you know, it was just around the corner. Some of my mates who
00:35:23
were bouncing were in the pub scene were in the pub scenes, you know, they were got part. So it it was it was uh it was
00:35:30
a it was a funny time. I was bouncing for about about six, seven years. Yeah. >> You enjoy that?
00:35:36
>> Yeah, I loved it because um >> What did you learn about people? >> Cuz you Well, you learn a lot about
00:35:40
people, you know. You know, but but you also got to look after people, too. People are allowed to have a drink, you
00:35:45
know. Uh and uh um and I worked um in South Oakland with one of the pubs I worked in was called the St. George. was
00:35:54
probably the roughest pub along with a flying jug in East Tamaki, you know, in St. George.
00:35:59
>> There was a pub called the Flying Jug. >> Flying Flying Jug. >> It's a bad name.
00:36:03
>> That's exactly how it was. And that that and that pub in my pub, that pub in my
00:36:09
pub, St. George, St. George 86. You walked in there, you see if you what you saw in Once were Warriors, you see three
00:36:16
times when you walked into into this is an 86. It was like once we were warriors
00:36:21
times five, you know, like seven of us used to work the bar, seven of us and like three or four fights a night like
00:36:28
cuz drugs going around everywhere. Just incredible. Um, but you know, I I did it
00:36:33
because I was working in the freezing works and being young, I wanted to make as much money as as I could and I just
00:36:39
and plus I love play with the guys and we played league and all that sort of stuff and uh and you learn about people.
00:36:46
Funny thing, I was at this tongue the other day and I ran into some people um who were um from those days and they
00:36:52
said, "Oh, you you were with our brother and and I said, "Yeah, your brother got
00:36:55
killed, one of their who who was with us. He got killed in the car accident and he was one of the bouncers with me
00:37:01
when I was young, you know." So, those were good days. I mean, I did it from
00:37:04
about 86 to I don't know about 92, 93. Was was your job as a bouncer to um like
00:37:11
fight or was it more just to like charm people over and sort of talk them down if they're if they're on the cusp of
00:37:17
fighting? >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean that's your first job is to talk them talk them
00:37:20
down. >> Well, you would have been good at that, I reckon. >> Oh, I I thought so. Well, that's what
00:37:25
that's why I did it, too. >> You still got all your teeth. >> Well, no. That's one of the things I did
00:37:29
was was cuz most of the boys just scrappers, you know. So I thought, "Oh, I'll make sure I get a good uh cut here
00:37:36
because they can't talk. They can only fight." So I could um I used to go in
00:37:40
and try and negotiate before anything would blow up and and I said, "Do you
00:37:44
really want to fight my boys?" You know, like I used to have Tong and Boxing
00:37:48
Champion and you know, and every like we had like the best team around, you know,
00:37:54
and I had boxing exboxing champs working with me and I said, you know, and so most of the time, most of the time, not
00:38:01
all the time, but most of the time you could talk your way out of it. But it was a good for me. It was a good
00:38:06
time because I was head security because you know they've they needed they needed
00:38:10
someone who could talk so I could I I so I used to lead um and you know you get an odd punch up but most of the time it
00:38:17
was pretty good. >> And the the band management stuff you were um the manager of Moana and the M
00:38:22
hunters. Moana uh yeah we did you guys marry and then you became the band manager or
00:38:28
>> No we were married uh early earlier. >> Yeah. Um and uh well she was a great
00:38:33
singer and uh >> yeah Black Pearl. Black Pearl was a great song. >> Yeah, we did that song.
00:38:38
>> A E I OU. >> A IU G. You remember the songs? That was 1990 1990 A IU which which was a landmark
00:38:45
song in terms of the real but very proud of those days in terms of um her and the
00:38:51
band and uh um you know it was uh that Moore Hunter thing was those are the days not like now you know everybody's
00:38:58
singing in the real and all that sort of stuff. Not in those days. It was really
00:39:02
um uh minimal. And uh so I had her and obviously her and then don't know you
00:39:07
heard of Hi Moi. Hi. So she came in with um she came in and she did a a deal with
00:39:13
a guy who um whose name's gone out of my head. He had a studio in Parnell. >> Uh uh and and Huh. He came in and uh did
00:39:22
a um a big song too. So those were good days. I mean we had Moana when when I I was managing the Mo Hunters but on
00:39:28
Tongata we had Moana, we had Hini, we had Emma [ __ ] I don't know if you remember her.
00:39:33
>> System Virtue. >> Yeah, System Virtue. Great song. >> Southside of Bombay you know damn
00:39:37
native. I don't know if you heard of Damn Native. >> Yeah. Behold my cool style. Yeah. And we
00:39:42
you know they were great. And then init and then my first band was a band called
00:39:46
Upper Hot Posy who I took to the states. You know they were the first rap band in
00:39:49
the country. >> Yeah. They were the first rap band. They they were like a radical moldy band.
00:39:54
They get up and go too and the new park is all racist and they come to Pon and oh yeah they'd be doing all this stuff
00:40:00
and at the time all the all the young park kids around Pon and them love them and they all racist and they got this
00:40:08
big following. Yeah. So 1988 89 90 they were um they were quite big posy and Murray Kamro grabbed them. I
00:40:15
don't know if you know Murray >> and Murray had our Southside label >> and he was running Southside and then he
00:40:20
was he had a rock label and he had Sheihard on the rock label. So he he was something else.
00:40:26
>> Was it um so the the this sort of bands you were managing back then? Was it like
00:40:30
a frustrating uphill battle to try and get radio play? >> You know um so so it's funny cuz uh you
00:40:36
know I ran into when I got onto radio live I ran into different people and they said remember when you used to come
00:40:40
in and give us a hard time. I said yes. told you all you're a disgrace, you know, like play some moldy play some
00:40:46
moldy music, eh? You know what? Why does it all, you know, cuz you're trying to
00:40:50
find a way in into mainstream, eh? And uh and uh yeah, had some real laughs with uh program directors through the
00:40:58
years because they had their own set format. My FM had uh just started and um my mates and that were involved with
00:41:06
that. I I was particularly irritated with them because uh I felt that they they just adopted that American um
00:41:13
>> format straight away and I says, "Oh, any dummy can do that. Why the the
00:41:17
challenge is can you play some moldy music?" So, we had a they were my mates,
00:41:22
but I I I uh I was irritated with their strategy early on cuz they weren't playing the moldy music either. But you
00:41:29
know they turned around later on and they started playing some of the moldy music and uh it took a long long time
00:41:36
before we uh we broke through. But those were um challenging days but you know those are days when you know program
00:41:44
directors were scared to go outside the format. So wasn't just moldy music actually to be fair Kiwi music wasn't
00:41:50
being played either if if you remember. >> Yeah. There was talk always of a quot.
00:41:54
>> That's right. >> The closest you'd get to some Kiwi music
00:41:56
is maybe a tiny bit of crowded house. Sure. That's right. So, you had to be like a superstar like Neil Finn or Tim
00:42:01
Finn, but you know, um those I really enjoyed those days and guys like Neil and Tim Finn were great for us. I mean,
00:42:07
we they they did a big show for us, War Hunters, when we went over to seas. We went to New Orleans and played with the
00:42:13
um Neville brothers and and Neil and Neil and them gave us a lot of support, you know, so great days.
00:42:20
>> Um yeah, I read an article that um Moana was involved with and she described you
00:42:24
as really annoying and that was part of the reason why you divorced. Probably. Probably.
00:42:30
>> Is that fair? >> Uh, yeah. I can't recall that article. I thought actually it was the other way
00:42:35
around. >> You probably faults on both sides. >> No. No. But we're all right. Here and I
00:42:41
we're mates, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um >> Well, you you're a good example of that.
00:42:45
Yeah. >> Researching researching this podcast, I saw a piece of you um debating in Oxford
00:42:49
last year and uh the the TV piece was broadcast on her TV show. Yes. >> And uh the story was um done by your
00:42:56
son. Yes. Yes. Yes. No. Well, he's a, you know, he's a sort of great producer,
00:43:01
my boy. And uh >> so him and her have their own TV show on um uh on for Katamari Marty television.
00:43:08
And so he came over with me to Oxford. And when he um uh when he said, "Right,
00:43:13
I'm coming." Cuz I I I was wanting to get Julian Warox or someone else cuz I
00:43:17
thought I can't bring my son to Oxford, you know, you know, it'll look too sort
00:43:21
of in house and see more jump up in the air. And he goes, "I'm coming." And
00:43:26
that's it. And I said, "You better do a good story, son." And he did a terrific
00:43:29
story. It was a great uh a great uh um uh event. I took with my wife now, Tanya, who's been actually been my wife
00:43:37
for the last 20 years. Uh she came with me. Oh, she and she's actually in Oxford
00:43:42
right now. Tanya. Yeah, she's over there now, believe it or not. And uh we just
00:43:46
so enjoyed it, you know. It was fantastic. But my boy, he did a great um he did a great show. It was really uh uh
00:43:53
terrific. And so I was able to hold my head up high. And the other good thing was, well, we won the debate. So that
00:43:58
was good, you know. >> Yeah, I enjoyed watching that. Um, you've done so much public speaking. Do
00:44:04
you get nervous before something of that magnitude? >> I think we all I think I think it's good
00:44:08
to get a little bit nervous. Eh, I mean, you know, this you're a bit of a big
00:44:12
time presenter yourself. And uh I I think if you don't get a little bit nervous um something bloody something
00:44:19
wrong cuz I think I think you can go wrong when you're just a bit too relaxed.
00:44:24
That's what I found in over the years. Like if you if you if you you you think
00:44:29
oh it's and you know the minute you start winging stuff I think I think you you can make mistakes. Yeah.
00:44:34
>> Um >> even though you know you you I can wing stuff and I'm sure you can too but you
00:44:40
should always be prepared you know. And one of the things I know with speakers and just just talking to young people as
00:44:46
they go through life, I always say you always got to take a risk sometimes when you do a speech or you know most of the
00:44:52
time it'll come off. Now and then it might fall flat. >> You had that experience.
00:44:57
>> But when you when you've done enough of it, you you learn how to get yourself
00:44:59
out of holes that you put yourself into. But at that um Oxford debate, there was
00:45:03
a line that you had for I think it was to a heckler or an opponent. >> Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:45:07
>> It was a hell of a line. Was that Was that in the back pocket or was that off
00:45:09
the cup? >> Yeah. Yeah. That was the what? No, no, no. Cuz we >> So you've been shutting me out for 200
00:45:14
years. >> Yeah, that's right. We we were waiting for a question like that. So it might
00:45:17
have looked like it was natural, but you know, we said well cuz I had a great I got a great prepper, my man in
00:45:22
Wellington guy called Bronson. He's who you've been dealing with. Uh and so he's
00:45:26
terrific prepper or Bronson and we we sort of prepped. I mean you got to prep, you know. We went for a few hours
00:45:32
saying, "Well, what if we get that question? What if we get that question?"
00:45:34
Because you can die you can die on stage, you know. And uh that's right. And yeah, that's right. and they wanted
00:45:40
to jump in and I said, "Look, we've been waiting 200 years for this moment." So,
00:45:43
never had you never had a marry before. >> Hey, Mama Davidson's going over in
00:45:47
November. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, so David Seymour went over. He was over there recently. I was there and
00:45:52
now M which it's just a wonderful You been Oxford? No. Beautiful city. Ah, beautiful.
00:45:58
>> And what about Frank Buns? When did you end up managing Frank Buns? >> No, I've got to put that in the right
00:46:03
Buny has been my mate for many, many years. Uh, and I I don't know how many people I keep trying to tell is that I
00:46:10
never really actually managed Frank Bugs. It just keeps coming out. But I did, you know, we were great mates, but
00:46:15
but but for some reason some media, you know, like I did give him advice and and
00:46:20
I and I told Buny, tell them I don't actually manage you cuz a manager gets money and you know,
00:46:28
>> free advice. Free advice, not a manager. >> That's right. Well, what happened was I
00:46:31
tell you because Frank, we've been mates since we were kids. We all went to school together and um you know he uh he
00:46:37
comes over home and he goes, "Oh jeez, you know, I just got laid off from the
00:46:40
rubbish trucks, you know, and he's uh he's like 29, 30." And I says, "For a
00:46:45
start, bro, you know, you normally wouldn't even say you were working on the rubbish trucks, you know, but uh
00:46:50
yeah, you know, he goes, I don't get smart." And I go, "You're so you're so
00:46:55
liberal with that, eh?" Cuz Buny was real Frank's real clever, you know, he
00:46:59
can do any job, but he just can't be bothered. E likes training. And I says,
00:47:02
"So now you're redundant from the rubbish trucks and you're, you know,
00:47:05
you're been you've been an Oakland rep." He wasn't in the All Blacks. So he goes,
00:47:08
"Oh, can you do me some a deal?" So what I did do was, so I did do a bit of
00:47:12
negotiation for him. I tried to tie him up with a contract with Canterbury Banks
00:47:17
and a guy called Peter Moore was the chief executive of of Canterbury Bankstown. And and I says, "I got this
00:47:23
guy just played for S. Moore. You know, he uh can we get a contract?" And he
00:47:27
goes, "25 grand." I says, "25,000." and he was just finished the 91 World Cup.
00:47:32
You know, he must be worth 100. No, 20. I've seen him, will he? You don't try to
00:47:36
try try it on me. I've seen everyone. I know you're a union guy, you know. And
00:47:40
he it's 25,000 or it's no deal. And it's and and come back to Bund. And so Eric
00:47:45
Rush was advising cuz Eric Rush, I had my union office and Rush had his office around the corner. He was a lawyer. So
00:47:51
we were both helping him. So all of a sudden people started saying we were managers and all that. So we never
00:47:55
really were, but we're just helpers and advisers and supporters. Anyway, um we
00:47:59
said 25 grand. He goes, "Oh, I don't know. Oh, maybe I'll do it next minute."
00:48:03
Lori Mains gets in, sorry, um Peter, oh, the guy who was running um North Harbor
00:48:09
Rugby, he was the co coach over there. He got in touch on behalf of Lori Mains and they said, "If you play like you
00:48:14
played for Sour, you'll make the All Blacks." And they gave him a bit of a
00:48:18
job over on on the North North Harour and next minute he played for North Harbor. Next minute he made the All
00:48:24
Blacks at 30. And it was fantastic. No, that was 19. That was 1992. 1993 John Teimu gets injured. Remember John Timu?
00:48:32
>> Yes. >> Gets injured for Canary Banks now. Then Peter Moore rings me. He goes, "Hey
00:48:36
Willie, that Frank Bunch is good, isn't he?" He goes, "Oh gee, I've been watching him
00:48:40
with the Orlex. Gee, he's good, isn't he, Willie?" He goes, "We've got an
00:48:44
injury." And I says, "Well, how much?" He goes, "1000,000." And he goes, "And
00:48:48
that's huge money." Then I went back to Bun. He goes, he goes, "What do you
00:48:51
reckon?" You know, cuz he's he's an all black and but he's making, you know, I
00:48:54
don't know what he's making money. He might have been making 50k a year or
00:48:57
something. Anyway, and I we thought about it and we kept talking about it and I says, "Mate, I went back to Peter
00:49:01
Moore and I said, "What if he gets injured?" "Oh, that's too bad." I says,
00:49:04
"Oh, no. We can't do it." Frank said, "Can't do it." I says, "You're 30 now,
00:49:08
31. Some 20-year-old will break your arm and that'll be the end of it." But it
00:49:11
was interesting. E, you know, he would have been sensational in league. But he was a great all black and we were so
00:49:16
proud because he represented us in Mangadi and South Oakland and great player watching him. Um, you know, we
00:49:22
all at Monaco Rivers and fantastic to watch someone like that. Frank's one of
00:49:26
the good guys of life, you know. Oh, >> he's wonderful. You meet him. He's such
00:49:30
a such a nice, kind guy. >> Neat guy, you know, got the young wife, I think, you know, had about five, you
00:49:36
know, and and oh, I won't talk about Bunsy too much. But anyway, he's a very
00:49:41
well, he's a married, very happily married man now, uh, with his young kids. You know, he's Bunch's like 63,
00:49:49
same age as me. 63. I think the wife's she's a fair bit younger, but he's doing
00:49:54
well. Uh, but one of the great talents of South Oakland. I mean, I was so proud of him. You know, we have Eric Rush,
00:50:00
Frank, Jonah Lman. You know, I met Jonah when he was young and and he that was it
00:50:06
was just great to to see him and really proud to see that South Oakland talent come out. Eh,
00:50:11
>> yeah, you you talk [ __ ] about everyone. Does um does any Oh, no. It's it's it's so much
00:50:19
fun. >> One of the things Rushy actually I think Eric said it to He says, "Well, if you
00:50:22
if you can't talk crap about your mates to your mates, then they can't be your
00:50:26
mates, right?" Hey, you know, >> well, I'm I'm the same. I think I I say
00:50:29
to people, "Roasting is one of my love languages." But does it get you in
00:50:32
trouble? >> NOT REALLY. >> NO, NOT REALLY. MY daughter always says, "Oh, God, Papa, can you can you just do
00:50:38
something and say something just nice straight? You you you say you say something nice and then you rubbish."
00:50:45
>> So, you know, because I'm the chair of our Mar and you know, just you just gota
00:50:50
you gota have a bit of fun, you I mean, I think that's what JT and I had over
00:50:54
seven years. You know, John and I had that. People loved it cuz we used to just rubbish each other. You know, our
00:51:00
wives Tanya and they used to they used to worry because they thought we were going to have punchups in the studio.
00:51:06
She said she rushed they rushed over there once cuz we were yelling at each other in the studio cuz he used to drive
00:51:12
me crazy cuz, you know, he was so, you know, he was like a blinking uh uh he was like a Winston in the studio. You
00:51:18
know, he'd be running all this he was Mr. a right-wing politician in those days, eh? You know, you know, so um and
00:51:25
so he was running the right-wing stuff and calling me a radical and we'd just
00:51:29
be blow it' just blow up and Paul Holmes rung me, he'd say, "I've never heard
00:51:33
anything like it." Never. He goes, "It's just compelling. I can't stop listening
00:51:38
to it." That's why when we finished, mate, I I was really sad. I was sad. I
00:51:42
thought seven years and and yes, what what we did was terrible. uh you know and I apologize and I apologize again
00:51:50
today but you reckon we could have got a second chance when when I think about all the mongrels who've been on radio
00:51:55
like you and and no you think about it that bling and Zayn Kirby he should have been bloody thrown in the bloom in
00:52:02
Oakland Harour Z thing Kirby you know th used to work for us at Georgie Fem oh my
00:52:07
god he was blinking disgraced lane great talent but you know look at all this stuff those boys on the rock you know
00:52:14
when I think of all the things that had happened Paul Holmes when he caught body
00:52:17
a cheeky [ __ ] >> That's right. Coffee and nan from the UN. Yeah. >> Heather Dupy Allen when she insulted the
00:52:22
whole Pacific, you know, uh those boys the the top marks, they gave Rangui Walker's phone number away on air. I
00:52:29
think of all the things that happened on radio and I thought what we did was the
00:52:33
worst thing. It wasn't good. But um it was I felt really sad about it because I
00:52:39
think that we played a part in radio that has never been done before and maybe not done since in terms of
00:52:45
introducing T maldi to mainstream. You know we brought hon cuz he didn't like
00:52:50
punk house and going on main street don when she got out of jail. you know, it's incredible radio and I felt that at
00:52:59
the end we should have been given the dignity of uh signing out properly or being, you know, but no second chances
00:53:06
for us. Just kicked that. We won the top talkback host in the country. For me, uh
00:53:11
Dom, it was the most um regretful thing that I've ever been that I've ever been
00:53:17
part of in my, you know, my work life and career. It was the saddest thing because um it was a guy called Mitch
00:53:24
Harris brought us on and Mitch was a great uh you know he was great uh bringing us on and he he helped
00:53:30
negotiate our contract with Breedy and um to have that opportunity in mainstream in terms of two mildly
00:53:38
advocating uh uh views was was uh was unheard of. unheard of. And even today, I and what I loved about it is it got
00:53:47
gave me an opportunity to cut, you know, cuz JT was always trying to say, well, he's a separatist, he's this, he's that,
00:53:53
and load of rubbish, you know, and and then you get to Kiwis. And so you get around the country and we see people
00:53:59
down in Greymouth and and they go, "HEY, JOHNNY, HE ALWAYS TRIES TO PAINT you
00:54:04
like a radical overly." I said, "He's a mongrel." Okay. And and and it was such
00:54:09
a wonderful seven years. And here we are in 2025. Who who's the radical? John
00:54:13
Dahedi running the Moldi Party and I'm in the Labour Party now. >> Yeah, I wondered about that the dynamic
00:54:19
of that show because yeah, as you've said, seven years, it's an incredible
00:54:22
long run. Um, >> it was a phenomenal show you had and as I I can't agree anymore with Sir Paul
00:54:28
Holmes. That was a compelling listen cuz you're hearing these two guys and you
00:54:32
think they they hate each other. But you're you're like best mates though.
00:54:36
>> Oh, yes. >> How did that look in commercial breaks or at the end of the show each day?
00:54:40
Sometimes it would get a bit touchy. I'd have to walk out because I thought I'm
00:54:43
gonna punch him or he I thought he was going to punch me, right? And because we we can't, you know, we that's now been
00:54:50
our background, too. We went and we went into a fight for life once cuz Dean Lonigan said, "Right, were you guys
00:54:55
fighting this fight for life?" went, "Yeah, we'll be in." And so we went down
00:54:59
and had our own fight down at the ABA. And then he said, "Oh, no, you fellas,
00:55:02
you can't fight you." Because I was fighting Bill English. I don't know if
00:55:05
you remember that here, but Bill and they wanted someone to fight Bill English. and Lonigan says, "No, no, you
00:55:09
guys can fight. You we'll get someone else to fight Lonigan uh to fight Bill
00:55:13
English." But we we were, you know, we we from South and West Oakland and uh
00:55:18
yeah, we'd get real angry with each other. We'd walk out and then we come
00:55:21
back in and then we'd have a laugh, you know, we go for a beer and, you know, we
00:55:24
never ever had a a um we never ever had a punch up. The only time we ever did we
00:55:30
was when we first sort of got together which was before radio and um we were doing the urban maldi thing in the ' 90s
00:55:37
and I didn't like how he was carrying on so I said step outside and um this was
00:55:42
at my mother's and he said yeah okay so so we we were walking we were walking
00:55:47
outside and mom jumped in the middle she said cut it out you know I just got so I just got so sick of a m I thought
00:55:56
yeah I don't know if I would have I you know, we were young, you know, young,
00:55:59
young and crazy, but we were walking out the door and uh mom jumps in the middle,
00:56:04
you know, it's 1996 or something, you know, I was actually I would have backed
00:56:08
myself then pretty fit, but he was he's pretty fit, too. You know, he's a New
00:56:12
Zealand league representative and all that. So, um yeah, those were great days. And and the funny thing was in
00:56:19
2016 um uh I was on radio, you know, he cuz he he finished cuz they you know they
00:56:26
cut him and I carried on with Ellie Moore and I had decided that I did want to go to Parliament and so and so did
00:56:31
John. So we we started that's when we both um thought we we would go. So I thought I was going with the Moldi party
00:56:38
and he thought he was going with the Labour Party but it just turned around and went around the other way. That's
00:56:43
why today and today he's running the moldy party and I'm involved obviously
00:56:47
in the Labour party. So, >> how often do you guys speak? >> Sometimes I'll speak too much. Three
00:56:51
times a week maybe and then we might have two weeks breaks and then we'll have have a catch up. You know, we're
00:56:56
part of each other, you know, our families and and all that sort of stuff. >> Is he your best friend?
00:57:00
>> I don't know about that. >> I don't think, you know, we're just good
00:57:04
mates and for relations, you know. You know, he's No, I don't about that. But I
00:57:08
I think we'd both deny that, but we're good. You know, like uh uh I'm really
00:57:12
proud of him. I'm really proud of the way he came back after that Oakland Miralty stuff,
00:57:17
>> you know. Was that you remember he went for the Oakland Malty against Phil Goff?
00:57:21
>> No. >> Yeah. It's only 5 years ago. Yeah. And it all wind up in flames, you know, and
00:57:26
it was a bloody mess, you know, and uh Oh, god. He, you know, just typical JT. But he came back and then he he says,
00:57:34
"Right, I'm going to I'm going to get this multiarty thing going." and he got
00:57:37
it going and look where they are today, you know, and so I'm proud of what he's
00:57:41
did but done, but he's got a still got a lot of work to do in terms of managing
00:57:45
that team going forward. >> And you proud of your um your radio show together this those seven years.
00:57:51
>> Oh, it was a wonderful time, you know. >> What is what are some excuse me, what is
00:57:53
some of your um like best best honor memories? >> Oh, so there were so many so many you
00:57:59
know um Yeah. Yeah. I mean >> just there was a lot of laughs. I just remember there being a lot of laugh a
00:58:06
lot of really heated debates as well. >> I remember him running Stacy Jones down,
00:58:09
you know, that Stacy Jones wasn't up to scratch, you know, in the war cuz we
00:58:13
used to do and I and I sent Stacy a message. He's going, "Oh." Next, an hour
00:58:17
later, Stacy walks in. He goes, "OH, WHAT'S STACY Jones doing here? What's
00:58:21
Stacy Jones doing here?" And Stacy walks into the you know, stuff like that. You
00:58:25
know, you have little pranks like that. And, you know, going going over to Donati when she just got out of jail. We
00:58:31
got a lot of uh it was a lot so much stuff. It was it was such an opportunity and it was great money too. You know it
00:58:38
was you know in those days it was uh it was uh you know it was a lot of money as
00:58:43
you know you being one of those rich guys who was getting all big contracts you and your misses. Um there was a lot
00:58:48
of money around radio then e um but uh we were um you know we we didn't do much
00:58:55
prep like we did no prep you know like we were walking in as they were playing the bling and the soundtrack sort of
00:59:00
stuff eh so uh but it was uh it was we you know so it was pretty it was just an opportunity to advance mai workingclass
00:59:10
but also have a bit of fun have music and also show New Zealand a side of mai that they never seen before And so we
00:59:17
got so many supporters online, you know, um and and and and not just MAI but park, you know, was it was real
00:59:24
workingass and it was just terrific. We had taxi drivers. I mean, I done a lot of jobs, you know, from politics to TV.
00:59:32
John and I actually ended up with a TV show on TV one after that. We had we got one year on TV. We got one series. Uh
00:59:38
but nothing touches and you know, nothing touches radio, does it? in terms of that uh personal touch you know I did
00:59:45
I had a chief you know you're talking about what I did >> between 2004 2010 I had a weekly current
00:59:52
affairs show on TV called I to eye I don't know if you saw that we did about
00:59:56
120 shows you know and that was f I love that Bill Rston I got that through Bill
01:00:00
Rston and >> and Claudet Hoy who was my producer but nothing quite touched radio in terms of
01:00:07
touching people's lives >> you know and just that connection just that connection% it's something special
01:00:13
and and I I loved it. I loved it with John. I enjoyed it with Allie Alli Moore. I thought uh I thought this is a
01:00:18
this is a challenge, you know, with Ally. Uh she was such a good friend and uh um and she was a bit controversial,
01:00:25
you know, cuz her and um her and her hubby had broken up and >> Oh, Simon Del.
01:00:30
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, she was in a lesbian relationship, so it was all
01:00:33
controversial and you know, I got her talking about it and she's really neat.
01:00:38
and her and her her partner that's she's really lovely her partner and so I did
01:00:43
one two three years with with Ally um and um and then I think she finished about 218 219 but I mean she's done
01:00:51
really well just done a book recently yeah >> proud of her proud of what she's done
01:00:56
too you know she's very brave courageous uh woman >> yes so that that radio show after seven
01:01:02
years that it all sort of blew up um and it was like a big a lot of people there
01:01:06
so such a long time ago a lot people won't even remember but it was 2013 um was a thing called Ghostbusters.
01:01:11
>> Ghostbusters. >> Do you Yeah. How do you feel reflecting on this now?
01:01:14
>> Oh, as I've said um you know this remains the biggest regret. What happened was a a young young woman
01:01:22
not even I'm not sure I don't know who it was. That's what thing that really
01:01:26
irritates me um is that we never f they never found out who it was. She never came forward. She rang in and and uh she
01:01:33
was having a few problems. We weren't concentrating at the time. we weren't
01:01:37
concentrating and uh so we we we gave some very um offensive responses and uh um but you know it's 3:30 we're
01:01:46
finishing at 4 4:00 I don't know what what happened but uh um uh anyway was wasn't good wasn't good response Mary
01:01:55
Chapman our producer's been a great producer she thought that it sounded fine she she replayed it overnight
01:02:03
and then it just blew up and it just blew M and as I said, Mike King had rung me and said, "Oh, I don't know about
01:02:08
that. I don't know about that um radio show you guys did." Geez, that was that
01:02:14
wasn't sounding good. And when I when I say it blew up, man, it blew up. Like we
01:02:18
were on 6:00 news for the next couple of weeks. Uh we were um they they shut the
01:02:23
show down. They sent us home and they said, "Don't go into the public, you
01:02:26
know, cuz you'll be attacked." Well, that wasn't true, of course, because
01:02:29
when we went everywhere, you know. So I said don't be careful about this cuz we
01:02:33
do have support for our from our communities. >> And the other thing is I says we are big
01:02:38
supporters of women. It was just a it was a it was just a a bad m a bad mistake and and and I wanted us anyway
01:02:47
they basically said oh you can come back but we you know we don't want JT and all
01:02:50
this sort of stuff and I said so that's the end of the show. I was going to finish too, but then I sort of thought
01:02:55
reputation is everything. So, as you know, and so I thought I would go back, but I don't like how we were treated. I
01:03:01
think that we should have been warned. The show should have come back. We should have been given an opportunity
01:03:05
just like as you said, people like Holmes, people like Heather Dupy Allen, like Mike Hoskins, like the the the Top
01:03:12
Marks when they did the Rangyui Walker stuff in the 80s, like the Rock who've
01:03:18
been done done over. I think you've been done over a couple of times, too. Oh, by
01:03:21
the by the broadcasting. Yeah. Anyone anyone that has any sort of impact on the air has to be polarizing. You have
01:03:27
to sort of dance that line. >> No, but you you know, you sort of think, well, you know, I might have done
01:03:31
something stupid when we did, but do do you what? Don't don't ask Mary's get a
01:03:35
second chance, you know. >> Yeah. Well, yeah, it does seem unfair that um you seven incredible years on
01:03:40
the air and then um and then it it just um >> Yeah. boils down to your worst moment.
01:03:45
>> Yeah. Yeah. Know, which seems kind of unfair. And and you know when you
01:03:49
>> did it did that change you as a person in any way? >> You have to be strong cuz it it it no I
01:03:54
don't think it um cuz I I I don't think it changed me particularly at all. I
01:04:00
I've always been a person who's try to be a people's person. And uh uh when I
01:04:05
say it didn't change me, maybe that's wrong. I I I was a bit more careful
01:04:09
after that. You know, I I think the lesson I learned was on radio blink, make sure you're listening to every word
01:04:16
in line sometimes, you know, so that that's where I I was a bit more careful
01:04:20
because, you know, people are ringing you for advice sometimes. You know, you you counsel them and all that sort of
01:04:25
stuff. So, but to you know, to this day, I still feel um sorry for that young woman. But again, the strange thing
01:04:31
about that was there was no complaint. We never knew who she was. M >> um and um and uh you know I apologize
01:04:39
and apologize now that I don't resolve from that don't resolve from that but I
01:04:44
don't think I've ever said that I I I I don't think I've said before that I I
01:04:49
don't think that we were treated well I and I don't think we were treated well I
01:04:52
think we deserve to be disciplined and all that but I'm always been a person
01:04:55
for second chances third chances and I thought we should have given us been given a second chance given our service
01:05:01
but got nothing show was shut down that was it gone and it was a such big part of New Zealand radio in many ways. I
01:05:09
remember running into Mark Ellis and he said to me, "Oh, I'd love to have come
01:05:12
on radio with you, you know, and because and I didn't know Mark either. He came
01:05:15
up to me in the street a few years ago and says, you know, you Willie Jackson, I would have loved to have come on with
01:05:20
you and Tom and all that, you know, and he's bit he's a bit of a gun himself."
01:05:23
>> Yeah. Incredible broadcast. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mark Ellis. So, you
01:05:26
know, so I know that guys like Mark Ellis, Paul Holmes, Ian Fraser, you know, was
01:05:33
they all they all listened to the radio and so whatever, you know, what I know what happened in the end, but I remain
01:05:38
very proud of that those seven years that him and I did. >> Was that the um the I mean, you've had a
01:05:43
lot of high-profile jobs. Is that the biggest adversity you've gone through?
01:05:46
That big public shaming was massive. Hey, the only thing I could probably compare it to that other people might
01:05:52
understand is like the the Paul Henry Sheila dick dick [ __ ] thing which was massive.
01:05:57
>> That was massive. E >> massive. I think the same sort of thing. You guys were like public enemy number
01:06:01
one for a week. >> We were for for about a month. >> A month for about we were on the 6:00
01:06:05
news and and see John and I didn't we didn't do social media. So we didn't
01:06:10
even know what Facebook that's how dumb we were, you know, like we didn't even
01:06:12
know what fa we heard about Facebook and we didn't know how to do it. We could
01:06:16
barely see in Texas. I've ever you know so they go have you been read no we haven't cuz you know I mean I got into
01:06:22
Facebook when I was started in parliament in 217 and that I thought I better learn about this Facebook right
01:06:28
honestly you know like we all the med all the stuff had come through we we'd
01:06:32
start we you know we were so useless useless technically got ourselves up to speed a bit later on but in those days
01:06:39
we would barely could get a read what is that saying we bring people in and we didn't realize that Facebook had gone
01:06:46
crazy and they They had our our heads and nooes and every blink of thing. It was it was incredible. Um uh the the
01:06:53
response and and and it went like that for a good couple of months. And uh um the good thing, you know, like like you
01:07:01
do learn stuff from it. I learned to be a bit more careful, but it also also, you know, in terms of adversity. Yeah. I
01:07:07
mean, you got to you got to come through there and and and what drives me sometimes is
01:07:13
the haters, you know, cuz they they they go, "Oh, that'll be the end of Tamaheda
01:07:17
and Jackson," you know. I said, "Oh, well, we'll see." You know, because we
01:07:21
were running our organizations and, you know, within six months, him and I had landed the biggest contract in in that
01:07:28
any MAI organization had ever got. And we started setting our because we our heart while I love the media, our heart
01:07:34
has always been in the community. I love working in the community, you know, I love being CEO for our organization,
01:07:39
Monaco Urban Marty Authority, love cheering our Mai. So, same with JT. So, you know, when you see the work on the
01:07:45
ground and you you see you're able to change people's lives, that's what my
01:07:49
biggest love is. Even though I've loved uh radio and TV first and foremost has
01:07:54
been my work on the ground. And uh and that just got more and more and more. And you know, that was in 213 and in
01:08:01
225. We didn't die, did we? We're still around. still going. We're old buckets,
01:08:05
but we we're still around. >> Um did it have any sort of um like detrimental or negative impact on your
01:08:11
mental health or that that of you know your family and loved ones around you? >> Um uh I I was, you know, I'm pretty
01:08:18
resilient, but it was very it was ups it's upsetting for um my wife wasn't
01:08:23
tarn. She wasn't she was very unhappy, you know, cuz she could see how much it
01:08:27
meant and um >> and she knows who you are as a person and she knows it's not you.
01:08:32
>> That's Well, that's right. That's right. And she doesn't like anyone to judge
01:08:35
because I'm hugely supportive of women, you know, uh and uh um and particularly
01:08:41
with my board at the time. I tell you, it was it that sort of hung over me for for a few years, particularly when I
01:08:49
started in labor in 2017, you know, like like I when I went into labor in 217, I
01:08:55
I I I think that I was the most unpopular uh and most controversial um candidate in the history of Labor.
01:09:04
You know, I'll I'll never forget that because I thought because Andrew Little
01:09:07
had approached me and I know I'm moving this side a bit, but you know, I go into
01:09:11
Labor, Angie, oh, it's going to be great. it's going to be great and you
01:09:14
know cuz they wanted me obviously because I had good pro profile and I I thought it was I thought this was going
01:09:19
all right it's not going to blow up or anything and then the word got out and
01:09:23
that that I was standing and next minute we had a big press conference in in Wangi and all the press I was feeling
01:09:30
quite good about myself and they said oh yes Jackson's going to be standing for labor blah blah blah and
01:09:36
then then says oh I got a bit of a problem it's a bit of a few complaints I go oh Okay. Um, Angel, I suppose you
01:09:43
were expecting that. He goes, I says, "Well, you got a few complaints." He
01:09:46
goes, "Yeah, yeah, 400." I says, "400." And he goes, "Yeah,
01:09:51
there's a 400 strong petition against you uh and uh u you know, joining the Labour Party." This is in 2000. So, I'm
01:09:59
looking at him going, "I thought you checked this all out before, you know."
01:10:02
>> So, this is from like party members and other other politicians in the party.
01:10:06
>> No. All Yeah. Well, yeah, I found out some of the MPs, too. But but the
01:10:10
petition was all party members of the rainbow the rainbow crew. Uh a lot of our women and I thought and I'm looking
01:10:18
at the complaints. He did not support the homosexual law reform. He did not support the um uh the samesex marriage
01:10:25
stuff. Well, I actually did. And I was looking at that. I says, "No, I supported all this." I said, "That's JT.
01:10:30
That's JT. That's this IS ALL JOHN. I R JT. >> WHY YOU BEING LONDON TOGETHER?"
01:10:37
>> YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. And I go, I r JT up and I go, "Hey, I'm being I'm getting
01:10:42
blamed for everything that you and he goes, "Oh, bro, just blame me. Blame me.
01:10:46
Blame me." And uh and I and and so I says, "What?" So I I went and met with
01:10:52
um the Rainbow Crew and and like they got a surprise. I 100 I've walked for supported homosexual reform 100%. Oh,
01:11:02
didn't she? I says, "That's the other Mall." Yeah. I said I know he's like he's my he's my
01:11:12
brother and all that. I says they say but he's your bro. I says yeah but sometimes bros have the right different
01:11:18
views. You must have mates like that. You know like absolutely we're not the
01:11:22
SAME PERSON. LIKE I SAYS why do you think the two marriage well? And they go well what about the same sex you know
01:11:29
marriage stuff? I says 100%. Oh I said didn't you listen to our show? And they went no they said cuz we
01:11:37
thought I said no but I always had the different view. >> Oh then and then everybody started
01:11:41
pulling their names off the petition and you know it all came down and all the well but also the MPs weren't
01:11:48
particularly happy either you know I mean Grant Robinson wasn't too happy and
01:11:52
justinda wasn't happy. No no one liked me I tell you was it was like and I said
01:11:57
to Andrew little you sure you did your research here brother you know oh it'll
01:12:01
be all right I tell you we got there. What what's it like then walking into that room as a new Labour MP knowing
01:12:07
that um heaps of your new teammates don't want you there? >> No. Well,
01:12:12
>> how do you overcome that? >> No. Well, when I first went in, I wasn't
01:12:15
an MP. I was just a candidate. So, so I wasn't, you know, so I had to prove myself and uh uh and then what happened
01:12:22
was Andrew was the leader and next minute he got thrown out and Justinda came in and then my mates said to me,
01:12:27
"You got no chance now. Just Justinda Justinda won't like you, you And so I
01:12:31
thought, "Oh, okay." And then so what I did, I thought, "Man, I this is my I
01:12:37
know how to organize, you know, I know how to run campaigns." So I just went
01:12:40
and fronted her up and I says, "Look, I can leave now if you like, you know."
01:12:44
And she goes, "Oh, no, no, no." I says, "No, I can, you know, I know you guys
01:12:47
don't like me, you know, you, Chippy, Grant, you know, I mean, Grant Grant got
01:12:52
really irritated with me when I asked him, "What do do you think you could be
01:12:56
the first gay um Labour leader?" and he got all twisted and I was only doing a
01:13:00
devil's advocate question. I think he's great. And he told me, you know, because
01:13:04
we're good mates now, we're all great mates. And but but he said, "Oh, I just
01:13:07
thought you were just talking like JT and we HATE JT. THEY ALL HATE each other. They all HATE
01:13:14
JT. WHY we talk about him all day? We've been talking about it through the studio." But but he goes, "You judge me
01:13:20
on that?" And he goes and he goes, "Yeah, anyway. Anyway, we we I tell you
01:13:28
I I I I I said to Justinda, "You want me to go? I'll go." Or, you know, she goes,
01:13:33
"Oh." I say, "Look, I know you all hate me." So, I I get it. I get I says,
01:13:37
"Look, I understand. I was on radio. I don't know if you guys actually listen
01:13:41
to the radio show cuz I like a lot of them, they they just hated those those shoes, but if they had listened
01:13:47
properly, they would have seen I always stick up for the underdog." And she
01:13:50
goes, "Oh, no, Willie. You're just doing your job." And all that sort of stuff.
01:13:53
We'll see how it goes. So I did that for with her for for the eight weeks that
01:13:57
she was in. She got in and she saw me working at ground level >> work really well with the teams and then
01:14:03
I got in and then when I got in she she made me a minister and so um she said oh
01:14:08
you and then we be you know we just become mates and so it was it was a real privilege to be a minister with her and
01:14:14
and people's views changed because they didn't because they really get to know
01:14:16
you because they didn't they didn't know me. I'm a loyal person. I I you know yes
01:14:21
I was a moldy party person. I helped with the setup of the Mai party. I was a former manuhaki leader. But once I
01:14:28
joined a crew, you know, I support that crew and that's what I did. And uh and
01:14:32
justinda uh justinda, you know, she she was so she was uh she was such a good supporter and it was quite funny cuz as
01:14:39
I said, I hated JD. And then JD said, "Hey, can you get can you get me a once
01:14:44
I was a minister, can you get me in with that Grant Robinson?" And I says, "You
01:14:48
going to behave?" Yes. Yes. Okay. So I I send the crazy man down to see Grant
01:14:52
Ros. Anyway, and justinda says, "Oh, is he going to be all right?" Yeah. Yeah. So
01:14:56
it's all So John goes and meet me with Grant Robinson. Next one on my phone goes and Justinda says, "Willie." I
01:15:02
says, "Yes." Hi, Justinda. JT just threatened to punch uh Grant Robinson
01:15:07
up. I says, "What?" She goes, "Your friend who you said I just your friend who you
01:15:16
said would be all right had just threatened the Minister of Finance." I says, "Ah, yeah, just ignore him." You
01:15:22
know, and and and then poor old Raj and he's got this crazy and next and and and
01:15:34
then JT comes out and I says, "What did you do?" And he goes, "Ah, he just, you
01:15:38
know, typical." I said, "You didn't Oh, no. I was just all talk and all that. I
01:15:42
said I says I says well you make these park house nervous you know you're a psycho and he goes a tell get over it
01:15:48
you know but anyway we laugh about it today but I never forget it and justinda rang me willing your friend has just
01:15:56
threatened to punch over the minister of finance and so you know yeah yeah but we became
01:16:02
good mates justinda and I and uh um took as I said it took a little while because
01:16:07
you know you got trust issues I understand that and uh um got became mates with her and uh and obviously
01:16:14
Grant later on Robinson and and Chippy. So, it's been a it's been a privilege to
01:16:18
have been a a minister with them and an MP with them over the last uh six, seven
01:16:22
years now. >> Yeah. How do you how do you feel about um what's um happened to just since
01:16:27
then? >> Some terrible stuff, eh? >> Terrible, man. Terrible. >> I ashamed to be in New Zealand
01:16:33
sometimes. >> I hate people who threaten >> her, you know, that makes me sick. Um
01:16:38
she was over there with uh she was just in at Oxford with with um my wife Tanya and and others over there and um because
01:16:46
they're celebrating this woman who who got a a degree market. She's been they
01:16:52
Oxford University gave her a degree and just staying in Oxford now. So she went along to to honor things and all the
01:16:57
moldies just love her. E but I I I don't like how these people act towards her.
01:17:02
She you know I think most Kiwis I know they're saying oh all the you know you
01:17:06
this this ugly side who I talk they who hate you this they hate my guts too. Um they make out that all New Zealanders
01:17:14
hate. That's not true. It's just that that that hate crew they they try and be
01:17:19
intimidating in that Adam you know and and I really feel for her and she I think she has security with her all the
01:17:25
time. >> Really? >> Yeah. Oh from from what I've seen. >> Yeah you know. Well, you have to because
01:17:28
you might some nut might just jump out and and have a crack at her. Eh, so um Oh, I was a proud time. I was I was I
01:17:37
was uh it was a privilege to be with her and then then Chippy came in and well, it didn't go down too well. But hey,
01:17:43
that's politics, you know. >> How how often are you getting told off by whoever's the leader and what does a
01:17:49
telling off look like? Like I know that just told you off for that that interview with Jack Tame in 2022, which
01:17:54
I watched the other day cuz I read some articles about it. I watched it. It was fine. I I still can't get over it.
01:17:59
>> So, you said sorry, but you weren't really sorry. >> Well, you had to say sorry. Just No, but
01:18:03
but you watch you see it was one of the most fascinating responses I've ever
01:18:07
seen to an interview. I tell you, like I said, so so my mate down there, um Tom Thomas Coglin says, "It's a train
01:18:16
wreck." I'm thinking, I mean, I've done hundreds of many, many interviews. I've
01:18:21
done a lot of good interviews with Jack, too. Jack sends me an email straight after. Ah, that's a great interview.
01:18:26
Right. It was a pre-record. Um, so our crew saw it before cuz Grant Robinson was on on the TV on the Sunday.
01:18:35
So, so our our people saw it and no one thought there was a problem. Mr. Coglin says, "Oh, Willie Jackson, it was just a
01:18:42
train wreck." Next minute all the vultures came in. Eh, like to this day and I watched it, I thought, "Oh, it was
01:18:48
a good interview." Yeah. >> And like I know what a train wreck interview is, you know, having been a
01:18:53
media trainer myself. I know, you know, and I know I've trained I train journalists. I thought, what did I do
01:19:00
wrong? And so even Thomas Cogland said to me who who's called it a train who's
01:19:04
>> he's a journalist. gentle and he's quite a neat guy actually and I like him and
01:19:08
him and I become mates cuz he interviewed me on his podcast a few months later and I says yes you mongrel
01:19:14
you know you know you try to destroy my career you know because like it blew up it blew up Jackson this train wreck
01:19:22
interview and I thought what's the train wreck you know and even even and so
01:19:27
justinda said she watches she says oh I don't know what's the train wreck um you
01:19:32
want to say sorry I says yeah I'll say sorry you know you know she's she was
01:19:35
really good. I say you got to just shut the noise down because what happens is all the vultures come in. Hey, Lux
01:19:40
stands up. And I thought, wait, so one sort of mistake and they want my job, you know, but that's politics. So I I
01:19:49
tell you, it's been that was probably that's probably been the only stressful
01:19:53
time because I was a bit stunned by it. But what I was also um I was also really
01:20:00
pleased about was the support. So Justinda was hugely supportive. Grant Robinson was supportive. the team was
01:20:05
like, you know, cuz I I don't make many mistakes in politics, but the haters
01:20:08
come in, you see. >> So, the haters come in and they go, "SEE THAT WILLIE JACKSON? HE'S SO DUMB. HE'S
01:20:13
SO DUMB. HE'S JUST A DUMB MARY." And I thought, I'm pretty good actually.
01:20:19
You want to watch some good interviews, you know, like I've done a lot of good
01:20:22
interviews. I had a t my own TV show had did 120 shows, you know, for over over six years. So, no, I do know how to
01:20:30
interview and it was just might mightn't have been your interview, but but the
01:20:34
haters come in e and oh, they you go, "Oh, THIS IS IT. WILLIE Jackson's
01:20:38
finished." Oh, I tell you, it just drove me nuts. So, it was um it was uh it was
01:20:43
a bit of a stressful uh uh uh time, but uh yeah, when you watched that, you would have thought, "What was so bad
01:20:48
about that interview?" >> Yeah. So, I read the article that you're
01:20:50
talking about and then I watched the interview and I thought it was been measured and
01:20:56
Jack won't say it. I says, "Go on, Jack, go and make a statement." I says, "I'll
01:20:59
show you an email that you sent me saying, great interview." You know, like
01:21:03
he just Jack couldn't believe it, you know. And so the these things these things happen and you just have to be
01:21:09
resilient. But but if you want to talk about train wreck interviews, he go you watch the Winston interview, man, when
01:21:15
when Jack and him went to toe to toe, it was I've never seen anything like it.
01:21:20
Winston was like it was just insulting him, threatening him. >> Called him a dirt trader over and over
01:21:26
again. Whatever a dirt trader is. And it and then and then I said to Jack, one thing that happens though, hey, after
01:21:31
when we finished those sort of interviews, hey Jack, when I finished with you, I got promoted a month later
01:21:36
Winston, he was a train wreck, he became the deputy prime minister. So the the key is same with Odini Capa who who's
01:21:42
just recently become the new MP for Tabaki Bakod. Bit of a train wreck interview uh a month ago. I really like
01:21:49
her. I didn't think it was that bad. Others are going on train wreck. She wins the election hands down. So, so the
01:21:55
key is go on Jack Tame show and you get and everything will be fine. >> Yeah. And if the reporters think you did
01:22:01
an appalling job, it's probably a good sign. >> What What's your relationship like with
01:22:06
um Hosking and Heather at ZB? Do you did you have you blacklisted Heather? Did I
01:22:10
read somewhere? >> Well, I'm back talking to her. I'm back. I made a decision talking to her. Well,
01:22:15
I got a bit upset with Heather because I we're sort of mates on radio live. For
01:22:19
some reason, she kind of get, you know, all of a sudden she get nasty all the time. And I I got really and I wouldn't
01:22:24
have never I just decided not to talk to her. What actually happened mate was um
01:22:28
when I got that Oxford um invitation, you know, all the haters come out. Oh, what he's going to he'll disgrace New
01:22:34
Zealand. He'll do this, do that. And I just laugh at it. I go, oh, we'll see
01:22:38
haters. You know, we we'll see who does well. What had happened though was my
01:22:41
daughter was listening to Heather and she rubbished me on. She goes, "Willy,
01:22:45
what's he going over to?" And my my daughter came and then that's when I got
01:22:48
a bit upset because I thought, "I don't know. I don't know why he why is Willie
01:22:52
go will he can can Willie talk and all that I thought oh yeah >> and so you know when my daughter I
01:22:57
thought yeah I thought I thought why you do that you know and then so I thought no I'm not talking to you anymore
01:23:02
heather so so that was 12 months and now I'm back talking with her again in fact
01:23:07
when I we won the debate you know I won the debate Barry so sent me a text you know uh because you know we had a I've
01:23:14
had a reasonably good when Barry was sick I was sending you know was I had a heart bypass too So I I sent Heather,
01:23:22
you know, I've been through what Barry went through. So I just felt a bit ah
01:23:25
stuffy, I don't need to talk to you, you know, but she's um uh uh you know, I've
01:23:30
decided to talk with her again because you know, she's out there. Uh in terms
01:23:33
of Hoskings, he won't talk to me. He he he boycotted me. I used to talk to him. We try we've
01:23:41
tried for the I haven't talked to him for 5 years. Uh and you know what, JT again?
01:23:49
I did JT again. So what happened? JT again. So what happened was but Mike go Mike go look I don't I'd go on a show we
01:23:59
tried several times when I was broadcasting minister but they they I know no and then then then then I tried
01:24:05
to be a regular on his show and they said no we're not having Willie Jackson.
01:24:08
But what had happened was Mike goes on to the the thing and he goes he goes on to show he goes this is how it works. JT
01:24:15
Willy Willie goes to parliament. He gets the money. He gives it to JT. JT puts it
01:24:19
in the back AND THEN WELL HE GOES and says this. So JT goes straight you you apologize or it's defamation e no they
01:24:27
don't they don't do anything right they did apologize. So ZB did the apologize and guess who did the apology?
01:24:34
Mike Hoskings now now why why he's I think why he's got the thing with me is
01:24:40
because I was I provided an affidavit. Absolutely. Because you don't defame me
01:24:44
on uh there. So that all went to court and next month they go, "Oh no, no, well
01:24:48
now Mike will apologize and there will be a settlement and so so JT goes to court. J goes to court and gets you know
01:24:58
they it's all confidential. I'll tell you I'll fear how much he got and then J says J says uh he goes uh
01:25:08
well that'll be GOING TO THE MAUI party campaign. Thanks very much Mike Oskson."
01:25:12
Yeah, of course. Of course. Um I haven't been on the radio ever since. I I know
01:25:17
who's the I know the the guy's got the top show in the country. Of course I'd
01:25:20
go on. >> And but do I have a reasonable relationship with him? Well, I do this
01:25:24
Ed Zed me thing every Friday. I saw the other week he come over and shook hands.
01:25:27
So the bugger won't have me on, you know. >> I think he I think he's nervous. That's
01:25:33
all I know. Yeah. Well, he look what he's not my politics or anything, right?
01:25:38
But he's a professional interviewer and I give him that. No, no doubt about it.
01:25:42
But yeah, old Heather, old Heather. And you one thing with Heather, you old South African e learning moldi. Did you
01:25:48
know that? >> Is she? >> She was talking. I couldn't believe it about 3 years ago speaking moldy to me
01:25:53
and I was saying to some of my staff, you fellas better. Watch out. Heather can speak better moldy than you.
01:26:00
>> She she's uh she's good on her though. E. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But
01:26:05
>> she's talented. She geez, she's a good broadcaster. >> Yeah. Yeah. She's all right. I suppose
01:26:10
she she was, you know, so I had a I don't know. Were you at the radio awards
01:26:13
when I um when I when I was a guest speaker? >> When was that? What? You were
01:26:17
>> three years ago. Two years. Yeah. >> Did you see that one? When me and
01:26:19
Hoskins were having a crack at each other. We had a bit of fun that night. >> Yeah, it was good fun.
01:26:24
>> His wife wasn't too happy. >> Oh, really? K. Well, cuz I said I want
01:26:28
to thank Kay for all her contributions to Moldi Broadcasting. >> And there was a big there was a big hush
01:26:34
in the in the Well, I thought I got to have a crack at Mike. He keeps having a crack at me. Hey, you know, and then he
01:26:40
comes on the stage, he goes, "Oh, here come Willie." Shakes hands. So, all
01:26:42
good. Then she goes in the PE uh in the paper and says, "Willie Jackson hates
01:26:47
parks, hates us who who don't support Mar." I don't not at all. I'm just
01:26:51
having a crack at her because u Oh, her husband had a crack at me. So, you know,
01:26:57
and I thought she was a good broadcaster. And that was a good night that night, >> eh? [ __ ] These are great yarns. You're
01:27:02
a great storyteller. Why wouldn't they want you on their on their on his show?
01:27:06
I reckon me and Hoskins would be great% frustrated him out but you know but uh you know particular it was funny
01:27:13
actually because I'll tell you another story when I was broadcasting minister
01:27:16
we had this release and and and I did something and I says you know I used to work for radio live and I did a bit of
01:27:22
stuff for ZB and Hoskins goes on the next day and he goes now Willie Jackson said he did a bit of WORK FOR ZB. I
01:27:29
CAN'T RECALL him doing that, but we're going to find out. And then they get
01:27:32
back in touch with us and and then my my team said, "Well, will you come on and
01:27:36
explain when he did it?" And then and they said, "Oh, we Mike would just like
01:27:41
to know what year did he work for Z3." >> And then I said to Mike, "Don't say
01:27:47
nothing. Just say no, we're not saying nothing." >> And and then they go, "But Mike wants to
01:27:52
know." And they and and I said, "You tell them just to say to Mike, Willy's a
01:27:56
liar." And uh uh and he's lying about working with ZB. Tell him to say it.
01:28:01
Tell him to say it. But he didn't say he didn't say it. Eh cuz cuz he cuz I
01:28:06
thought you say it. Well, THERE'S SOME MORE DEFAMATION COMING COMING YOUR WAY,
01:28:10
SON. We'll see how good you are. You know, so so cuz he could he said Woody Jackson didn't work for Z. Oh, yes.
01:28:16
Well, no, I didn't actually, but I had a little part-time. I I said I didn't have
01:28:20
a big job there, but I used to just do do commentary. Holmes used to get me on. Um and and and then I did couple I did
01:28:27
about 18 months of Kerry Woodham. She had what was called Kerry's Kerry's Kef
01:28:31
and I used to be her political contributor. So uh but but but I didn't want to tell him that. But do I have
01:28:37
proof? Well, I used to get paid for it. >> So is that proof? >> Yeah, you got the receipts.
01:28:43
>> True. And Holmes used to have me on and so so I wasn't saying I was a reporter
01:28:46
or anything, but he tried to and when when Radio Live came along, I got offered a midnight slot. I says, "Who
01:28:52
was running? Who was running?" Who was the guy running um who was the main man
01:28:56
in ZB? He was the the overall Bill Prie don't go to that radio live. You know,
01:29:04
come come over here. I said, "Well, what slot you got?" Midnight to 600. I said,
01:29:08
"Get lost, dog." I said, he go I says, "You only put the marries midnight to
01:29:13
6." And he goes, "Oh, you always pull the Mauy trick. We'll get you we'll get
01:29:18
you an early. You got to do your time, but don't go on radio life." I heard
01:29:21
you. They're trying to get John Tommy. We can sit you up here in ZB. I says,
01:29:24
"Yeah, just put the M's on the midnight shift, Bill. Go jump in the lake, you
01:29:28
know." But he good guy, Bill. Eight guy, you know, but Bill knew. I mean, they
01:29:32
knew cuz Holmes used to do com I do commentary with him when Holmes used to have his TV show
01:29:38
>> in the ' 90s. I was his most um frequent guest on his TV show in the ' 90s. And
01:29:44
then uh uh you know, it was great cuz in those days you didn't have all the social media. So you'd go on the home
01:29:49
show, you get like a million people watching you. I'd be walking around South Oakland the next day getting big
01:29:55
phone calls in there, you know, like beeps from cars, going to the pub, free beers, cuz you know, I would have been
01:30:01
on the home show about seven times in one year, which is a lot, you know, six, seven times, you know, talking about
01:30:06
marry this, marry that. I thought, well, there's a there's a there's a real um
01:30:11
there's a real market there, eh? And so yeah, so as for Yeah. Yeah. as for that
01:30:16
to ZB. But yeah, I respect them as as broadcasters and all that sort of stuff. Yeah.
01:30:21
>> You mentioned before something um that I didn't find in any of my research, the
01:30:25
the heart issue. When when did you have heart issues? >> Oh, yeah. Um 200 2008
01:30:32
2008. >> Ages ago. So you're in your like like 40s. >> 47. >> What happened?
01:30:37
>> You know, remember Len Brown went down? >> Yeah. >> Well, you know what Len Brown was up to,
01:30:42
eh? Are you with that lady in the in the naughty naughty part room? >> Yeah. Anyway, apparently he had the
01:30:47
heart. He like he died. He died not long after. Might have been the shock of the
01:30:52
lady in the ni va room. Who knows? Um there was a TV show on that day. >> Anyway, the says the wife says to me, uh
01:31:00
she says to me, "Oh, you better go and get checked, you know, cuz" and I says,
01:31:04
"Why?" She goes, "Oh, you're so busy. You're doing radio, you know." I said,
01:31:07
"No, I'm all right. I'm all right." So, I go and get checked. And the guy says,
01:31:10
"Oh, geez, your your your your heart's pump. You're blocked like 85%." And I
01:31:15
says, "What?" And he goes, "You know, you'll block." I said, "What does that
01:31:18
mean?" And he goes, "That means that you could go any minute or or or or uh or
01:31:24
you could get lucky and live for the next 25 years." And he goes, "But I'd
01:31:28
say you could go any minute, which means I would say I mean," he says, "I
01:31:32
couldn't be sure, but I says, "Well, how sure are you this?" And he goes, "Well,
01:31:35
I reckon 50/50, you know." He says, "That's pretty high, isn't it? This is
01:31:39
this is the the doctor. He says he is he says I says yeah but I could go 20 you know marries they just go on and on and
01:31:44
on. He goes oh you better do something he so wife tans and and and John JD cuz we're on radio just he's Mr. Hard
01:31:52
expert. Oh, you better get it done next. Why did I do a I do a bypass 2008? Sains
01:31:58
bone. You know Mark Sainsbury? Yes. Sainsbone was doing close-up. We're good
01:32:02
mates. You know, I have seen him for a long time. >> We'll follow you into the surgery,
01:32:06
brother. And I says, "What for? I'm not going on your stupid show." Cuz he took
01:32:10
over from poor He took over from Paul Holmes. You see, he goes, "No, no, brother. It'll be great. Willie Jackson
01:32:15
goes INTO I SAID, "BUT WHAT IF I DIE? What if I die?" And he goes, "OH, EVEN
01:32:21
BETTER. I SAID I SAID I said you're a bastard. Same boat. You're a bastard. HE GOES ON.
01:32:30
DON'T DIE THOUGH. DON'T DIE. GO. You'd like me. You'd like me. Oh jeez. That'll
01:32:33
be great. That'd be No, we I don't think we'll be able to take the cameras in
01:32:37
when you have I says, "Of course you won't be able to." But he goes, "No,
01:32:40
we'll interview you before you go in and all that." Anyway, so I have the bypass.
01:32:44
We have the interview. It's all done. Come out. He interviews me after. So it's all good. And then I went home and
01:32:50
then I nearly died. All right. cuz I had a I had a um infection. >> Wow. >> And I was bleeding and they shot me back
01:32:56
in like I I went I paid for this thing privately. I didn't go public. I went
01:33:00
paid for it privately 2008. And um and they got me in and and they got me just in time. And then and and I and I said
01:33:10
to the doctor, "I pay all those thousands of bucks and you I still nearly died." And they had put me on
01:33:15
antibiotics for 3 weeks in the hospital. for 3 weeks Oakland hospital and they used to have to and they had to whack
01:33:20
the antibiotics in four times a day to clean me out. Incredible. And then they had to then had to do another opera
01:33:27
operation and uh they you know I tell you I was exhausted. They'd be waking me
01:33:30
up at 3 in the morning. You got to take your antibiotic, Mr. Jackson. It's incredible. And so um so nearly and so
01:33:35
so so I got the um what's the infection you get in the blood? Yeah. Uh I got I
01:33:41
got an infection and uh I was just so I was so lucky and I come out and but old sainsbow had his TV show and then he
01:33:48
plays the TV show because close-up you know took up took over after Holmes and then I I rung Sainsbow up and I says
01:33:54
yeah I nearly died. He goes, "What happened?" And I and he says, "I'm I'm
01:33:57
in [ __ ] I'm in hospital, you know." Oh, Jesus. SHALL WE DO AN UPDATE? I SAY,
01:34:01
"JUST STAY away from me, Saints, bro. You're bad. You're bad luck." You know,
01:34:06
CUZ HE GOES, "WELL, Jackson came out of the uh surgery really good." You know,
01:34:10
we done an up. They showed me talking and then he then run the next, "Oh, we've got to do an update." I was foster
01:34:21
though, you're 64. >> I'm 64 now. Yeah. You got good energy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's funny, you
01:34:27
know, my rugby injuries are the, you know, I was saying to saying to my my wife, geez, you know, you know, in the
01:34:34
last year, I got a sore foot start playing up, then the hip starts playing up. That's been playing up for
01:34:40
the last three years. Then the right shoulder plays up, then the left shoulder plays up, then my eyes, I've
01:34:45
got to get some cataracts done. And I was thinking, what's happening to me? you know, you know, you go from, you
01:34:50
know, like because I was walking all the time before, but um but generally you're
01:34:54
all right. But it's uh it's funny as you age. E but I'm inspired by by guys like
01:35:01
Winston, >> you know, Winston is I mean he's 18, you know, he's 16 years older than me. He's
01:35:07
incredible. Jones, he's six. Shane, 66. And you know I think age is just a uh
01:35:12
you know like like like it's just a figure I think because um for me people talk about retiring at 65 and all that.
01:35:19
I couldn't imagine retiring whether you know I I if I'm not doing politics I'll
01:35:24
I'll be involved in my organization you know which is Monaco urban mi authority
01:35:27
got our own we got our own mai and I love the work we do love working with the the people. So, you know, I couldn't
01:35:33
imagine just retiring, you know, too much. >> You got to do something. Eh, I had um
01:35:37
Lori Mains on the podcast recently. Yeah. 79. He's in great shape. Gets up in the morning, does some exercises,
01:35:43
play shoots his own age in golf. >> My favorite. He was my favorite coach,
01:35:46
you know. >> Is he? >> Oh, yeah. Well, cuz, you know, I was a sports broadcaster, too. You see, for
01:35:49
years. I always used to stick up for Mains cuz all of the Oaklanders love John Hart,
01:35:54
>> but Mains gave guys like Frank Bunson that a chance and and Aaron Penny and
01:35:59
Eric Rush. And Mains was a great coach. God, he was a bit hard on um the the box
01:36:05
coach. I mean, he's sort of dishonest and everything. I thought, Lori, you know,
01:36:13
>> he's very dishonest. Not a nice person. I don't want to get into it cuz I follow
01:36:17
I'm I'm a I'm a rugby nut. Total rugby nut, you know. I love I love rugby. Um
01:36:23
my grandfather was an all black, you know. Uh and and I I know I feel I know more about rugby than just about anyone,
01:36:30
you know. So, so, so, so I, so, and I used to, you know, I used to travel overseas commentating. I went to South
01:36:37
Africa in 94. I used to follow them, go with the M. So, I done done all that sort sort of stuff. So, for me, even
01:36:44
now, rugy's my relaxation. Uh, and and so there's certain people who stood out
01:36:48
for me and Mains was always one of them. You know, this Razer though, God, he's
01:36:52
he's you better get in him in here if he loses next week. My goodness. Something
01:36:57
wrong there, isn't it? Do you follow rugby? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. closely.
01:37:00
>> Oh yeah. Well, we got a problem with the coach. >> The best coaches they should have had
01:37:05
was Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown. They would they would have been fantastic. Dave Renie is another great coach.
01:37:12
>> Um you know we got we got coaches uh it's just it's just Wayne Smith is
01:37:18
fantastic. >> Yeah, I just had Warren Gatland on as well. He's just he's just kicking
01:37:22
kicking at the beach and >> Gats is good. He was real good. He just got a bad run with Wales. Yeah, I've
01:37:27
always been a fan of his team, >> you know. Um, his his guy who took over from the Chiefs is one of our mates.
01:37:34
He's gone over to Monster now. I I think it's over Monster. He he to he was the
01:37:38
Chiefs coach before. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, one of our one of our crew. So, Gatlin
01:37:44
was um I mean, he was a hell of a coach, but he just started having a bad run in
01:37:48
the last couple of years. But when we have those sort of coaches, you got to ask and Joe Smith, I mean, fabulous
01:37:53
coach. And then this guy comes. I don't know what Ray is doing. I think he lacks
01:37:58
you got to have a bit of nerve. Eh, Mine's had nerve, you know. You got to try stuff. Maine's put Mark Ellis at
01:38:04
first five. Never worked. It never work. Mark's better at the center. No, but I'm
01:38:09
saying you got to This is what this this this Rushy does. You try stuff. You know, he just goes with Bowden at first
01:38:15
5A. Why would you do that sort of stuff? You know, obviously it's not working. um
01:38:20
you know he just he he got to go with DMC and you got to you got to take some risks with DMC and then bring Ruben Love
01:38:26
on and try guys. Hey that's what the great coaches do. So I I think what this
01:38:31
Razer needs is he needs some support. They need Wayne Smith with them all the time or get him out. The other thing is
01:38:38
Hardy is clearly the best captain. Hey >> oh 100%. >> I like Scott Barrett good player that he
01:38:44
is but I wouldn't even put Scott in the SC side right now. You got two better
01:38:48
locks than him, you know. But Arty is just fantastic. But, you know, and it's
01:38:53
the or we get crazy. The all backs are still pretty good, but that box is just better, you know. But we're probably
01:38:58
second or third, >> you know. >> Jeez, you're passionate, eh? I love it.
01:39:02
>> So animated about it. What? Um, yeah. What's your definition of happiness
01:39:05
these days? >> Oh, I love it. I just love it with my um being with the wife and and um and enjoy
01:39:12
it with my my I enjoy with my kids and my moapunas, you know. We got about eight moaponas. Eight, I think. Yeah.
01:39:18
And >> what what sort of age range >> from baby >> to 16? >> Yeah.
01:39:26
>> Yeah. Yeah. Baby to 16. Yeah. So, so it's just fabulous. And so I I enjoy
01:39:31
enjoy it with them and I enjoy with my wife TS and re and so they're my relaxation enjoying stuff. And then
01:39:39
rugby is also relaxation. But if they play bad >> I don't know. You seem pretty stressed
01:39:42
out about starts irritating me and I get angry and I start watching the league. You know, I've been watching that Pedro
01:39:48
lately. That'd be fabulous. E, you been watching the Broncos? >> I watched the semi-final over the over
01:39:53
the weekend. That was an amazing game. >> And I I love watching the league cuz you
01:39:56
see all those moldy boys playing. You see all those multi boys who've been over there and so watch Melbourne
01:40:01
against the Broncos coming up this weekend. It's been going to be great. But those warriors drive me nuts. Oh,
01:40:06
they're hopeless. >> Yeah, they break your heart. Oh, I always say to all my mates, you guys are
01:40:12
mad. >> They go up the W. I go, oh my god. You know, I say, you know, >> are you not a fan of the up the
01:40:19
movement? >> No, they drive me crazy because >> I thought you guys they all my mates say
01:40:26
Dale Husband. I don't know if you know Dale Husband. I says they're so they so
01:40:29
let us down. You know, they're the biggest disappointments around, but I suppose they're good. You know, we've
01:40:33
been going since 1995. I went to the first game >> 1995. We never won a premiership and
01:40:40
we've been around longer than Melbourne and the Broncos. >> Oh, >> yeah. 30 30 I didn't know it was 30
01:40:44
years. That's a long time. >> Yeah. >> Um, do you like yourself? Are you
01:40:49
someone that you'd want to have a beer with? >> I think so. >> Yeah. I I think so. I mean, I just I'm
01:40:56
just me. I just uh I like I like people, you know, and um I think I'm okay. It's
01:41:01
a funny thing that uh depression stuff. B. I um I've never really gone through
01:41:06
it, but I've watched a lot of people go through it. I can understand it a bit.
01:41:10
>> That's why I asked before about the um the um Ghostbusters stuff, which um
01:41:15
>> that was a test. That was a real test. >> Yeah. Like if if if you can stay strong
01:41:19
and resilient mentally through that, then you can survive most things. I >> think that was a real test. And um
01:41:25
>> yeah. Uh yeah. Yeah. But I always, you know, I like to keep busy. And one of
01:41:31
the challenges of being an o in opposition and you're not in government and that it's keeping busy. So I like to
01:41:38
keep that's why when Oxford came along that was great to go along and and I'm
01:41:42
organizing things uh for our party and and I'm a real supporter of Chippy you
01:41:47
know Chris Hipkins. I'm really proud of him. You know I I don't think he gets a
01:41:51
fair crack from uh from the media and all that. You know I think he's good man
01:41:56
and solid and and I and I think he can be the prime minister again. you know, I I I get a lot of pleasure out of
01:42:02
supporting people like that and bringing young ones through, you know, so um that's what, you know, I got to be busy
01:42:08
all the time, you know. So, you know, are you >> I can't just sit there and look at the
01:42:12
bling of TV all day and night. >> Are you are you a goal setter? Like, have you got goals for like the the rest
01:42:17
of your 60s or your 70s or you just see what sort of comes your way? >> No, no. I sort of have goals, you know.
01:42:22
I've always had goals in in life. if I had goals from the time I failed at school till you know moving all the way
01:42:29
through because I I remember um you sort of get written off I you know you get written off at different times and and
01:42:36
that's what inspires me really people who write you off or you know I never forget um working in the works and I was
01:42:43
like 18 19 and this guy said oh you're just a laborer you're not going to do
01:42:46
you're not going to go anywhere I say you think so because he was a meat inspector and yeah you know because that
01:42:53
was the time you M and you know that that sort of stuff inspires me. It's like
01:42:58
>> fuel. >> It fuels you. >> And and on social media, the haters who
01:43:03
hate who who hate >> Maldi so much and and and I was thinking about and and I don't think that's a
01:43:09
huge group, but it's a significant group, you know, and that's why I said with David, guys
01:43:15
like David Seymour, he fuels that group. I'm not saying he's part of it. I don't
01:43:19
think he's ugly like that. He can be quite cordial, you know, >> but he doesn't know it that that some of
01:43:24
those supporters, they just so hate us. And uh they just I just think they want us to die, you know. They just want us
01:43:31
They do. Well, I I could show you emails for the last 25 years. I've had threats
01:43:36
you wouldn't believe. Uh so many times I I when I was on radio, I'd say, "Here's
01:43:41
my phone number. I'll wait for you here." You know, you know, I DON'T KNOW. I CAN'T STAND
01:43:46
people who threaten you. you know, and cuz cuz I've >> you might not believe this, but when
01:43:50
I've been out there over the years, and I suppose I've got had a pretty high
01:43:54
profile, >> I never been threatened by anybody. I've never been abused or insulted, believe
01:43:58
it or not. >> No, I I do believe it. I do believe it. >> And I walk to pubs. I meet probably more
01:44:03
people than any, you know. Yeah. I just, you know, people come shake hands. I I'm
01:44:07
I'm sure that I go into places and people don't like me, but you know, Kiwis are pretty respectful. If they
01:44:12
don't like, you know, they keep a distance. I I I'd do the same, too. I wouldn't go over to someone and say,
01:44:17
"Oh, I hate you." You know, it happened once. Actually, it's only happened once.
01:44:21
Ellie Moore and I were doing a show in Christ Church and this guy came up and he was looking at me and he started
01:44:26
doing sign language to me and he started saying, "I don't like you." And I and I
01:44:32
said, "What' you say? I don't like you." And I said, "What'd you say, mate?" And
01:44:38
we were just about to start the show and Ellie and I go I says, "Just stay there." I took my headphones off, stood
01:44:42
up, and I went over. I was going to crack him. And he ran off and I chased him. And I chased him. I couldn't get him.
01:44:50
>> You weren't actually gonna crack. >> I was gonna crack him when he got on my
01:44:53
nerves. >> When was the last time you threw a punch? >> Oh, a few years now. Few miles, but few
01:44:58
years now. But uh you know, yeah. But um I'm going to crack him. I was so angry
01:45:04
with him, you know. Um I was so angry with him, I tell you. But yeah, that's
01:45:08
about the only like I go into pubs, restaurant, and I always have good Kiwis always coming over. So I always think
01:45:14
that's why I say to my son who we talked about hiku is his name never worry about those sort of thing
01:45:20
and I told my daughter after heather said that thing about Oxford um never worry about them we know what we can do
01:45:26
they just want us to die they classify people you know they they look at people like me and they go oh he's dumb um
01:45:32
mold's a d you know can't he can't talk oh he oh look at that Jack Tman you know
01:45:37
they never give you any bit of credit and that sort of thing I always say we use that sort of thing to fuel us
01:45:42
>> 100% >> yeah you You know, we we'll see who's dumb, >> you know. Oh, he's a radical. He doesn't
01:45:47
hate SP. Oh, cut it out. I love parkour. I got a park. Um, [ __ ] papa too. Where
01:45:52
do you think the Jackson side came from? You know, >> so so I'm really proud I'm really proud
01:45:57
of Maldi and Parker in this country. I think we got a lot to be proud of in this country.
01:46:01
>> Yeah. Yeah. Things seem quite divided at the moment, but for the most part, people
01:46:06
are good, eh? >> Yeah. I mean, David will tell you that things are divided. Yeah. That's because
01:46:10
of of his his his crackpot mob, you know, who like if you you know, he'll say of this this nonsense about a
01:46:17
partnership. What why is it nonsense? You know, go to auntie far and look at how they work on the beaches with with
01:46:24
Oaklanders in New Zealand. Go to two far and you'll see how how they work. You
01:46:28
know, like we've got a great partnership and relationship. That's what if you if
01:46:32
you look at the issues that upset New Zealanders, you'll find that mai issues
01:46:36
are very low down. >> Yeah. So David and go, "Oh, it's terrible this
01:46:40
co-governance. It's terrible this partnership." What's terrible? Every
01:46:45
prime minister where the National Labor has backed partnership since ' 87. >> If it was so bad, why isn't it up there
01:46:51
when you look at the the issues in front of New Zealanders? No. The issues in front of New Zealanders are cost of
01:46:56
living, hey, health, housing, >> jobs, education. Ma Maldi and Park, our relationships way down the list. It's
01:47:05
just some of Seymour's rednecks who who want it to be a big deal. And Winston's
01:47:10
and some of Winston's nut jobs, you know, and uh um and and Kiwis don't care
01:47:15
about that. They they they I'm as I say, I keep saying this. I said this at Labor
01:47:20
Party conference. I think a lot of the so-called middle of New Zealand or you want to call it middle New Zealand, but
01:47:25
I'm saying average New Zealanders, I think, has changed. There's been a change. We should embrace that. And and
01:47:31
and they're embracing Maldi culture. You go to Maldi Wananga universities. More
01:47:36
Pacquiao are learning Mai than the Maldis. That's great. You know, that's
01:47:41
what you know I I have Pquia people. They got their kids relationships with Maldi. Their kids are learning Mai, but
01:47:48
even Pacquiao couples. So many of them are they're so proud of everything. That's why I'm there's a lot to be proud
01:47:53
of. Nothing to fear, nothing to be scared of. and uh and David and them are making such a load of uh uh talk such a
01:48:01
load of nonsense in terms of oh New Zealand's going backwards since this partnership thing and we're on edge.
01:48:06
Well, you saw what New Zealanders thought about it. 100,000 of them march. It might have been 80,000.
01:48:13
It was the biggest march in the history of New Zealand. That's New Zealand. >> I don't I don't see Where's all your
01:48:19
people, Mr. Seymour? I tell you where they are on social media. The gutless wonders.
01:48:26
You're so passionate, eh? You're so passionate. >> Well, they think they can scare you. You
01:48:30
see, you know, I mean, I I I I've been getting I I I you know, I'm not too bad
01:48:34
on the social media, you know. I I I haven't done much, you know. I I only do
01:48:38
Facebook, but I got about 40,000 followers, so it's not bad, you know, and they're all I don't really do the
01:48:43
Instagram and the other ones. I say just do Facebook, you know, and I just build
01:48:46
it up. Oh, that's not I said, "Is that enough amount?" Got about 40,000
01:48:50
followers. Not too bad. and they're all activists and they're not, you know, and
01:48:53
they they they're Labor Party people, they're Green people, they're multi-
01:48:57
party people and they just want an avenue to talk about the cost of living. They're not worried about relationships
01:49:04
and partnership. New Zealanders have told David Seymour what they think of his treaty principles bill. That young
01:49:10
fellow Henry even thought it was very division. That's that's the division.
01:49:14
>> Yeah. >> Um jeez, when you eventually finish with politics, it's going to be a huge loss,
01:49:20
eh? Right. We need characters like you. >> People that are prepared to Yeah. speak
01:49:25
to their mind, shoot from the hip. >> What would you say your biggest flaws
01:49:28
are? >> You know, when I was younger, I I think I I I was bit too wild, you know. I like
01:49:37
I was, you know, cuz you're young, you know, like when I was younger and I was
01:49:41
a bit unforgiving. I was a bit so you know you gota remember I'm 64 now but when I when I was 24 you know I get a
01:49:47
punch up at the drop of a hat you know because you know you're although I was a
01:49:50
talker in terms of um in in in terms of um bouncers I was the main talker but I I didn't mind having a punchup I quite
01:49:59
enjoyed that you know it was sort of part and parcel of being South Oakland I thought oh you know you go you're just
01:50:05
men you know you go and settle things go and settle it outside so the but but I think through my 20s and 30s I I was
01:50:12
I I do think I was a bit too short, you know, in terms of my temper and like like look I do you my uncle Sid used to
01:50:18
negotiate. He he used to give us tips. He'd always say controlled negotiation.
01:50:23
I used to lose it a bit, you know, but I think as I got came through um uh uh you
01:50:29
know, as I got older, you know, you just get better and better, you know, you train yourself, you know. I I trained
01:50:34
myself in the media, you know, because I thought, oh, there's open openings there
01:50:38
in ter in terms of flaws. Um I I I I think that uh you know, I you know, I try I try I try and read as much
01:50:49
as I can. I think sometimes I and I'm pretty good sometimes so I always try and read something different all the
01:50:54
time that could be a flaw for me you know you know because you want to know about everything you know so I thought
01:50:58
right what's that Seymour really saying you know or you know what's happening in
01:51:02
that you know what's Nicola Wallace really saying you know um because I don't I don't have um the the education
01:51:09
that others have had but I've learned my education has been through life you know
01:51:13
so I mean it's for others to say what my flaws are some some might might say I'm
01:51:18
just too quick off the hip sometimes I don't know, might be to, you know, shoot, you know. So that I think that
01:51:24
that was probably one of my flaws, but I tried to pull it back a bit and always try to um be supportive. I always try to
01:51:31
be supportive of mates, particularly in when you're in labor. >> Well, um I had Sir Steve Hansen on the
01:51:36
podcast a couple of months ago and he's got a theory that um for most people
01:51:39
their greatest strength is also their greatest weakness. >> Um so for you maybe that's um speaking
01:51:44
your mind. >> Yeah, might might be. You know, cuz it can get it can get you into
01:51:48
>> Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Well, here's the thing. Some people never speak their
01:51:51
mind. >> Some people never speak their mind. And and then I look at it's funny. My my
01:51:57
wife and I, we're so funny our kids. They hate coming to dinner with us sometimes cuz if something's wrong,
01:52:04
we'll tell the waiter. But I don't I don't I don't believe in disrespecting
01:52:09
waiters or or anything like that. I I got a lot of respect. But but if um you know, but if the kind if the food's not
01:52:15
good cuz But most people will just accept that. I never do. I thought particularly if
01:52:20
you go to a restaurant and you're paying big bucks, right? And so our kids, they
01:52:23
just say, "Oh no, oh no, please don't make a scene. I don't make a scene." You
01:52:27
know, so so you know, you know, um I mean the thing is that things can, you know, I've been in situations like that
01:52:36
when I was younger and you know, next the whole thing just blows right up here in a punch house. But that so I've
01:52:41
pulled back from all that sort of stuff. Hey, you know, but uh um uh you know, I
01:52:46
think Steve Henson's right. Sometimes you you got to learn to curb yourself,
01:52:50
too. I think I think we all do. You got to know um uh you know, and the last thing you should say, my daughter, I
01:52:57
said to my daughter, you know, there was this MP once, what's his name? She goes,
01:53:02
I said, you know what he did, babe? And she goes, what? He went in and he said, do you know who I am?
01:53:08
And she goes, don't ever say that. And I go, I says, "It's tempting sometimes,
01:53:13
you know who that was?" I'm trying to remember. It was one of John John Keys
01:53:18
MPs. >> Oh, was it? Oh my god, that's so cringe. >> Yeah, I know.
01:53:22
>> That's the worst. >> Key sacked him straight away. You know, >> you know, you know, do you know who I
01:53:26
am? >> Well, if you have to say that, then clearly they they either don't or they
01:53:30
do and they don't care. >> They don't care. And and then the other
01:53:33
thing is you got to be I think you got to be humble. play. You know, I think you have to be humble and people got to
01:53:39
keep their, you know, I think it's easy to get famous in New Zealand because
01:53:42
this is a small country, >> but you don't want to be um so, you know, sometimes, you know, you just I I
01:53:48
say to people when they as they go through life, I just don't get too carried away just cuz you think you're a
01:53:54
big shot here at Parliament. Most people don't watch Parliament, you know, like they don't know. They
01:54:00
don't even know what we're doing down there. E, you got to prove yourself
01:54:03
everywhere. And then don't even think you're you're hot because most people
01:54:06
live their lives in a bubble and they don't. So you know you know and I say to
01:54:13
people you might think everyone knows you but they don't. >> Yeah. I used to I used to talk with
01:54:17
Holmes about some of that stuff. Oh I got quite I got to know Holmes quite well.
01:54:21
>> Yeah. He's a guy that's proper famous like everyone in New Zealand knew who he
01:54:24
was. >> Well no even he says so. He says like we we says it's funny though sometimes
01:54:29
April you know you know you think everyone knows you and then I says I never forget I said I I told him the
01:54:35
story I did this great show with you and they rated through the roof and I went over to this place the next day and it
01:54:41
was all moldy and somebody was at the re door and I walked in and I go and you know I was feeling quite good cuz it was
01:54:46
such I was a star and the woman goes yes who are you really so much of my bloody home show last I
01:54:56
you know you think of m you know say never get a a big head in this game e you know cuz cuz um you know uh and I
01:55:05
say that to my crew who are with me cuz I when we go out there oh everyone knows
01:55:08
you say no they don't you guys got to stop thinking that some people do you know it's not like that I said you guys
01:55:15
think that cuz a few people know you you know it's most Kiwis they just want to
01:55:18
get on their business and even if they do know you they don't want to annoy you
01:55:22
and so I think one of the keys and Hansen would say it too whether you're an more black or politician minister, if
01:55:27
you don't stay humble, man, you're you're uh it's a it's a um you're going
01:55:32
to go down a tube, eh? You're going to go down cuz I think that's one of the
01:55:35
problems. If if you walk in and say, "Do you know who I am?" You might be the top
01:55:39
politician radio who doesn't, you know, and I'm inspired by people who are
01:55:43
humble, you know, I tell you people like Michael Jones, you know, good very good friend, really good
01:55:50
friend, you know, went to the Pacifica game and been mates for many years. inspired by people like that. Humble,
01:55:58
lovely seeing Ronnie Clark with his boy, you know, and you know, I know Ronnie, lovely man. And I thought, oh, look at
01:56:04
that. That's what makes me happy when I see that sort of stuff. You know, it's
01:56:08
really really good. You know, >> you just said nice things about Michael Jones and Ronnie Clark without um
01:56:12
throwing in any jabs. >> Well, they so they're so lovely though. They're so straight. They like they're
01:56:18
almost perfect. They old old Michael. Michael's just so terrific, you know. Really proud of what he does. and you
01:56:25
know um you know life fun. No, you know I mean he he's a good friend. He's not I
01:56:31
mean he's the bro and all that but he's not one of the bros who going to have
01:56:34
beer sort of thing. You know he's saying he's too perfect. >> Michael's so perfect. E you know
01:56:39
>> this has been such a great chat out of all the um politicians I've had on. This
01:56:43
has definitely been my favorite by far. Definitely the most laughs. >> Got to have laugh. So you got you got to
01:56:47
laugh in life though Dom. You know cuz if you can't if if you're not laughing
01:56:51
in a relationship she's all over. Okay. If you're not laughing in a show
01:56:56
like this and not a very good show, you know, I I I think humor is everything. Eh,
01:57:01
>> it's great how you get on with your wife, eh? You guys >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. We run a business
01:57:05
together. Yeah. Fantastic. That's great. >> If say um you weren't in the room and
01:57:10
your six moapuna were in here, what what are three words you'd like them to say
01:57:14
about you to describe you? >> Who the mockup is? >> Yeah, >> I think I've got eight mockaputters.
01:57:19
>> Oh, eight. My bad. >> Three words? >> Yeah. that >> like yeah like three three words to
01:57:26
someone >> coral they call me koro >> koro is fun that's all that's enough
01:57:31
>> because I like to have a bit of fun with them >> what about three different words like
01:57:34
fun so fun >> three different words is what >> like like fun so fun could be one
01:57:42
>> okay I don't know >> like a legacy sort of thing >> oh like a legacy
01:57:48
oh um the I I always say to my mukapunas to make me proud, you know, and and and you
01:57:58
know, they got to they got to do stuff. So So So they always know they have to do well, you know, and uh and so I
01:58:04
always put that sort of pressure on them. Um but you know, it's about the balance. So So it's just it's
01:58:11
particularly with their mildy side, you know. We I tried to do well with my kids, you know, like like my boy who you
01:58:17
talked about, he you know, we brought him up. He we weren't talking English to
01:58:21
him till he was about 11, you know, >> you know, so we just spoke Maldi to him.
01:58:24
We're not not that we're great Maldi speakers, but you know, I I want to I'm
01:58:28
so proud of our people uh you know, you know, and uh and my moaponist, my young ones, they still don't talk English with
01:58:36
me and you know, so Wow. So, so there's one, two, I've got one, two, three, four
01:58:42
of them who just speak Maldi too, you know. So, that's really No, it's really
01:58:45
good. So, it's like um you know, my my my legacy is about um I would like them
01:58:51
to think that, you know, it's about being proud being proud of of who you are. And and and and I also think they,
01:59:01
you know, I like helping people. So, you never you never give up. You don't don't
01:59:05
give up. never give up, you know, because uh um I think that you can have barriers in front of you in life, but
01:59:11
you can you can do anything if you want if you want to, you know, you shouldn't
01:59:14
you should you should if if you know like I said last week, my friend lost the election who we were in Oakuckland
01:59:21
and I said to him, don't worry about it. We all losers, you know, we all we all
01:59:26
lose and you know, through adversity you you you grow. Winston lost. Shane Jones
01:59:31
has never won an electorate. John Tahades lost. I lost. We're all losers. Don't worry about it because uh through
01:59:38
through that adversity, you'll be strong. Yeah. >> So, you got to learn through adversity.
01:59:42
If you just collapse and fall apart, then you probably were in the wrong game anyway.
01:59:46
>> Yeah. [ __ ] It's been a hell of a life. That um thick 14, 15 year old at school,
01:59:52
you know, school kid. What would he make of the life that you've had? You know, I
01:59:57
I I it's funny, you know, when I was a kid, even when I failed at school, um I
02:00:03
always thought I'd do all right. I always I even though I failed, I thought I'm not going to I'm going to change. I
02:00:09
I just I was totally determined to because I thought, "Oh, I'm failed at
02:00:13
school, but I ain't going to be standing in a factory all my life. I I can promise myself that." And and one thing
02:00:19
I I knew I could do was I wasn't a bad speaker, you know, and I thought, you
02:00:24
know, the old voice, the old mouth might be able to carry me uh into into positions and into opportunities. And it
02:00:30
was and and it has been able to I've been able to do that. But I'm also driven by, you know, I like to help
02:00:37
people. I love supporting the underdog. I love advocating for people and helping
02:00:41
people in their lives. And it's been a privilege to do that through my life in
02:00:45
the union movement. privilege in politics, music, sport, politics. What a what a privilege it was to to get the
02:00:52
type of funding that we got for for our people. Never seen funding like that before. And I was the main negotiator
02:00:59
for our MAI caucus. So those sort of opportunities, those those are opportunities of a lifetime that um uh
02:01:06
you know, I proud I've been proud to to to roll out. And so, yeah, it's um you
02:01:12
know, I always say to our young ones, there's so much to do. You know, you might think things are you're in a hole
02:01:18
now, but you know, you you put a plan in place. Me and my wife always say, we put
02:01:22
in a put in a plan. Uh and if you haven't got a plan, uh then uh you're just going to you're just going to go
02:01:28
week to week. Eh, I reckon everyone's going to have a plan. Uh Dom, >> I reckon that's probably a good place to
02:01:34
end it. Any final words or >> Oh, no. Thanks very much. >> How much money you make here?
02:01:41
Not enough. Not enough. Still still um spending the radio money. >> Give me a ball for now. I'm looking at
02:01:47
uh I've been looking at this sort of podcast sort of thing as a as a future,
02:01:51
you know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, you can bring the old band back
02:01:53
together. >> Yeah. Bring the old band back together. Oh, it's it's funny though, isn't it?
02:01:57
Every morning's doing a podcast now, eh? >> Everyone's doing a podcast, actually.
02:02:02
Are you the most popular one? You and those two beers or something. >> Between Two Beers. Yeah, they are. I
02:02:06
think I'm like the Teeu version of Between Two Beers. They're doing a great
02:02:10
job. >> Someone said that you you and them are about the most popular. >> Oh, is that right?
02:02:14
>> Type of podcast doing this type of quarted away. >> I think one thing we both have in
02:02:19
common, me and Between Beers, um we've both been going a long time. I've been
02:02:23
going like three and a half years. They've been going about six years and we started independent and we just keep
02:02:27
grinding away. Whereas the media companies, they'll start a podcast. They'll do eight episodes, 10 episodes,
02:02:32
and they'll get bored. >> But it's um >> that's what Ghana does, right? They've
02:02:35
sort of they've abandoned >> Yeah, he's doing all right now. >> Haven't they abandoned him? I heard him
02:02:39
asking for money. He asking for money the other day. No, no, he was he was well cuz he you know he's uh he's he's
02:02:45
he's been booting the all he does is boot the marage, right? That's all Dun
02:02:49
does, you know. >> Oh, one trick pony. >> Well, you know, it's bad experience. Had
02:02:53
a bad experience with Mai Woman, but anyway, we won't go there, you know, couple of wives, you know, moldy woman,
02:02:58
you know, but hey, he he's a good broadcaster, too. But I I see him struggling there. He's talking about
02:03:04
he's got to get funding. What about Plunkett? Is he going to last? He lost all the richies.
02:03:07
>> I I don't know. Is he going with a subscription model that's for the
02:03:10
platform? >> Yeah. No, but the >> the right family. Yeah. >> You know, they pulled they pulled. Yeah.
02:03:16
>> Yeah. I heard he's uh he's he's up to something, you know. I'll plunk it, eh?
02:03:21
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. No. So, no. So, like give me an idea how much money you're making.
02:03:27
I'll tell you, thousand half a mile. Give me You're not going to tell us on
02:03:32
here. No, I'll tell you off there when you tell me how much you got as a defamation payment from ZB.
02:03:37
>> Hey, I never got a scent. It always it never came it never came my way. All I
02:03:42
got was banned by that Mike Hoskins. Come on, Mike. Put me back on that show. >> All right. Okay. Hey, good to be here.
02:03:47
>> It's the first time we've met, mate. I really enjoyed it. >> Thank you very much.
02:03:49
>> Cheers. Legend.