00:00:00
What sort of a kid were you? >> My sister and two brothers drowned. My mom lost the plot. I always thought my
00:00:04
grandmother was my mother. People see me as that footballist. They don't know the
00:00:07
things that I don't know. My dad was a really tough guy. He's 6'4. He had hands
00:00:11
like mitts. I'm going to have to give you a hiding, but I'm going to apologize. Sorry. Because I love you.
00:00:15
>> What impact does it have on a child seeing your mom get beaten up by your
00:00:17
dad? >> It's traumatic. I got diagnosed with PTSD. I bought one of them home when I
00:00:21
was at Newcastle. A couple of years later, he did the same thing. His note said, you know, just contact my bro and
00:00:26
he'll sort everything out. My story is exactly the same as those two. Why am I
00:00:29
still here? There's something wrong with this picture. The goal I ripped was to
00:00:32
have a two-story home. >> None of it was your fault. >> Are you proud of yourself?
00:00:35
>> The biggest person I have to convince is myself. >> Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is
00:00:41
the center of performance. Whenever there's a top performance in New Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:00:45
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that for days. That's the boys who got the
00:00:50
hole in one in Topore. >> He did it again. Hey Finn, how's the performance going?
00:00:56
>> Top tier. >> Nice. This is our generate room. In here, you'll find our top performers
00:01:00
helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver investments. Get an F in maximize. Generate.
00:01:06
>> Putting performance first. >> Kempy. Tony Kemp, welcome to the podcast. Hey, Dom. Yeah, happy to be
00:01:11
here, mate. Why now? Oh, it's you know, like I was saying before, it's been a,
00:01:17
you know, a number of requests to come try and get me on a podcast. Um but through friends and and you know me
00:01:24
doing my homework and talking you know um to those people about you know is it time to talk um I've just decided yeah
00:01:33
Dom Harvey you know people actually rate you and give you a good um a good score
00:01:38
and I thought yeah well why not go on go on Dom show and have a chat. >> I appreciate it. And just before we
00:01:44
started you said you're um there might be some things that you talk about that
00:01:47
you've never talked about before. I suppose that depends on me asking the right questions or taking in the right
00:01:52
area. >> Well, yeah, you're you're the you're the um the the host, aren't you? You're sort
00:01:56
of getting it out of me. Um but yeah, like as you know, people Dom, you know, they I guess they the the current one is
00:02:05
they know me for my opinion on the Warriors. Um you know, working with Marty Develin or running, you know, my
00:02:11
radio breakfast show with Izzy when I was doing that and and being so polarizing around um giving my opinion.
00:02:17
Um but yeah, you know, they've had a wonderful football career and you for 35
00:02:22
years it's it's been around and um but it's, you know, I don't talk a hell of a
00:02:28
lot about Tony Kemp. You know, people people that read about me in the media just think, "Oh, that's that rugby
00:02:32
league guy." So, um you might hear a little bit more about me today. >> Well, it's wonderful to have you here.
00:02:39
>> Thanks, mate. >> Yeah. Um yeah, 25 games for the Kiwis, more than 250 first class games, coach
00:02:44
of the Warriors, and just as you alluded to then the media stuff. I'm curious
00:02:48
about the the the media stuff like um cuz you are quite outspoken and you can be quite brash and blunt and having been
00:02:55
on the receiving end of that yourself as a a player, I guess, and a coach. Um, like do do you feel bad sometimes when
00:03:01
you give your honest opinions? And >> Well, I I look I I guess you've got to
00:03:06
be able to take the good with the bad, you know, like it's I'm not the type of
00:03:10
guy. There's a saying there's a saying, Dom, you know, it it goes along the
00:03:14
lines of um I'd much rather be hunted like a wolf than ridden like a donkey.
00:03:20
And I I think when I heard that saying, it's sort of like, you know, as long as
00:03:26
I'm comfortable in what I'm saying, um it's my opinion. It's not in anyone
00:03:30
else's. I'm you're not riding me. Um you're not getting me to to tow the
00:03:34
party line. And and people that know me um know that that's what Tony Kemp stands for, you know. So, um look, I've
00:03:41
been on both sides of the fences, you know, as a player and a and a coach. and and then I went into the media and and I
00:03:47
got to work with, you know, people when I was playing and coaching and then uh on the other side of the fence which was
00:03:53
asking the questions and I guess when you're talking the sport um I spend a lot of time investigating and and
00:04:00
studying the sport and and I think I've got a fair um account of what's going
00:04:04
on. So when I do put something out there, I I honestly believe it. Um I'm happy to say, "Hey, you got that one
00:04:10
wrong." Um but generally, you know, when I say something, especially in that
00:04:15
rugby league, um realm or in sport in general, I I tend to tend to say how I see it,
00:04:20
>> you know. >> Is it awkward if you ever bump into players after >> 100%. You know, the guys have hopped out
00:04:26
of out of light lifts and got a little bit of upset, you know. Uh but, you know, I'm not I'm not the type of black
00:04:33
to back down, you know. So, I was brought up, you know, in in a um family environment which was pretty tough. You
00:04:41
know, I was I never had an opportunity to have an opinion when I grew up. You know, my dad was a um a really tough
00:04:48
guy. He was he was tough. You know, you're trying to explain. He's 6'4. He
00:04:53
had hands like mitts. You know, that I've got big hands. His hand one hand was twice the size of mine. And I wore
00:04:58
that quite a lot. Um, but he didn't give me an opportunity to have an opinion or
00:05:02
or be able to discuss anything. Um, so when you're putting something out there
00:05:07
and yes, it can be it can be brutal. Um, and it can be polarizing and and and and
00:05:12
honest, it it has upset some people. Now I and I know that um but at the end of the day, you know, like I wouldn't say
00:05:19
that type of thing if I didn't believe it. And and there are times when I've
00:05:23
run into, you know, ex players or ex-coaches or or footballers and and we've had a crack at each other. Um, and
00:05:29
I'll just say, well, hey, man, it's only opinion. Like, at the at the end of the
00:05:33
day, this is one of the things that I remember, um, Dom, and I and I say this to people, it's just a game of footy.
00:05:38
>> Like, you know, it's not life or death. It's it's a game of footy. It's someone
00:05:41
with an opinion. Um, >> and you got to remember, too, I've been on the other side of the fence when you
00:05:45
look read your social media comments. I I said this to my partner, you know, like it's um I can laugh at that because
00:05:53
the resilience that I got growing up where I never had an opportunity to to have a discussion or being able to have
00:06:00
an opinion is quite laughable to these people that hide behind a computer and and a keyboard um warriors, you know
00:06:06
what I mean? So um yeah, it's I could tell you a few stories about a few people, but we move on. that same per
00:06:13
person that hopped out of the lift, you know, he's he stops and we have a good
00:06:16
chat now and a good laugh. >> Oh, yeah. Time time time is a great healer. >> Yeah, it is. It is. But, you know,
00:06:21
that's again, it's for me knowing the reason why I got into media was because
00:06:27
that it was a profile and and it was paying the bills, you know. So, um people hire you for, you know, you to do
00:06:35
a job and sometimes that job can't be always been, you know, ridden like a donkey.
00:06:42
Well, yeah. I'm I'm from a media background as well, and the worst thing
00:06:44
you can do is be beige or vanilla. You just can't you have to you have to have
00:06:48
some hot takes or some strong opinions. >> Well, yeah. And then and that's, you
00:06:52
know, generally why people um are constantly on the phone to me to try and get my opinion on especially, you know,
00:06:58
some some really polarizing um I guess events that happen. You know, there's some stuff that I won't touch or
00:07:06
go near. Um, but you know, when it's just a game of footy and and they want an honest opinion about it, I'll
00:07:11
generally give it. >> Yeah. What won't you touch or go near? >> I got a phone call about a player that
00:07:16
um in Australia who who uh he he murdered his wife and his kids um and he played at the Warriors and I and
00:07:27
>> Oh, that I remember that. Yeah. Terrible domestic violence. He actually play when
00:07:30
I coached the Warriors, he played or he trolled for us and they, you know, the media as they do put put this together
00:07:37
and and phone me up to give to get a comment and I said I got nothing to say, you know, like I don't know anything
00:07:44
about that side of things. Um, so, you know, you got to be really I think I'
00:07:49
I've sort of worked out the media through my career. Um, I know when to say something. You know, I've I've built
00:07:55
a profile out of it. And you know there's there's things that you touch and there's things that you don't go
00:08:01
anywhere near and and that was one of the the situations where you know they they went oh he used to coach him and we
00:08:06
he'll say something and tell us about the character and I was like got nothing
00:08:10
to do with me that >> yeah whether he was a good trainer or not suddenly that's irrelevant at that
00:08:14
point. Yeah talking I'm not talking about that. >> Okay. So um you're born in Northland and
00:08:18
you moved to Wra as a little boy. What are you what are your earliest memories? What sort of a kid were you?
00:08:23
>> Fluent Moldi Moldi as your first language. >> Uh Maldi. Yeah. So yeah, so this is the
00:08:27
stuff, you know, why you know that I've never ever spoken about the storm, but
00:08:32
um if we go back right back um my mom, I was the youngest of four kids and I was
00:08:40
born in Fangad and raised in Kitty Kitty and Kokoy. Um and my siblings, I had one
00:08:47
sister and two brothers. Um my my William Diane >> Yeah. And my my um birth father died
00:08:54
when he was 29. So I was only 6 months old. Um but not long after that, my sister and two brothers drowned.
00:09:02
>> Um and my mom lost the plot. Um which is which is understandable, you know,
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>> she went a little bit um sideways and ended up putting me with my grandmother.
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So my grandmother's raised me till I was three and I always thought my grandmother was my mother. So those are
00:09:19
the earliest memories that I've got. Um, and then my mom met my my dad, who I
00:09:24
called my dad. Um, and we moved to Kittykitty. And, um, it was it was a it was a different upbringing, you know,
00:09:30
like, so I've gone from the youngest to the oldest. Um, my stepfather, Phil's
00:09:35
had, you know, another another son and two daughters. So, I'm now in this family. My mom's come to pick me up off
00:09:41
my nan and taken me away. Um, I thought, oh, you know, I thought that was my mother and who's this lady? Um we've
00:09:49
moved down to Anadi and um yeah sort of was a was a pretty you know it's not a
00:09:55
unique you know my we were state state family living in state homes and and you know not uncommon to to have 12 to 15
00:10:03
people in the house cuz my dad was a um a career of the family as you know if anyone had a problem child they moved in
00:10:10
with us. um dad you know with my fang eyed brothers um were raised with with me which my dad's sister's sons um yeah
00:10:18
and we just we we lived there in Fangad till the age of oh probably 56 was my earliest um memories of that but it
00:10:27
wasn't they they they were tough memories you know my mom was sort of still getting over you know in hindsight
00:10:35
um some serious loss and my father was a young father who's who was raising a
00:10:40
young family and had me as well in there. Um, and yeah, it was it was really tough, you know, like people say,
00:10:47
"What was your dad? What you know, what was your dad like?" And um, the people
00:10:52
in White know my dad really well cuz he's, you know, full Kemp. They he he coached all the kids,
00:10:58
>> coached all my brother's teams, everyone, you know, he had a photo up in
00:11:01
the club room and was my dad was in there. Um, but he was a hard man, you know, because he he had, you know, love
00:11:09
in this fist and hate in this fist. And I always tell people this story that, you know, I'm I'm going to I'm going to
00:11:15
have to give you a hiding. Um, but I'm going to apologize to you and say I'm
00:11:19
sorry because I love you, but I had to teach you a lesson. And for a young bloke growing up like that, it was
00:11:24
really confusing, you know? It was like, yeah, man. You like, you're going to
00:11:28
give me a hiding. And and I'm not talking like, you know, you get a a strap or a kick up the bum. I'm talking
00:11:33
about you're getting you're getting ragdoled around the place and then you
00:11:36
put on his knee and he's a big man and he's cuddling and you're saying, "Hey,
00:11:39
I'm I'm trying to teach a lesson, you know." Um, so I was I I as my earliest
00:11:44
memories are growing up there is just sort of dealing with that type of confusion around these two emotions of
00:11:50
of love and hate. Um, and one of my outlets of course was sport, you know. So, um, getting up on a Saturday morning
00:11:58
listening to the radio, please don't cancel it cuz of the rain. I was the opposite.
00:12:04
>> I just wanted to stay home and watch now. I prayed for it to be cancelled.
00:12:07
>> No. No. It was like, man, I don't care. I don't care. Just let me out. Get me
00:12:11
out. Um, and those was, you know, those were those were some of the the the I guess changes really early on in my
00:12:19
life. You know, when I look back on it now, you get someone commenting on social media about, you know, oh, shut
00:12:25
up, Kemp, you [ __ ] You know, don't know what you're talking about, mate.
00:12:28
They they don't they don't hurt. They're, you know, they're they're like
00:12:32
raindrops, you know, they've fallen off the back of your your rain jacket. Um,
00:12:36
compared to what I was, you know, bought up like. >> Is Is your mom still around?
00:12:42
>> Yeah, she is. Stubborn old stubborn old bat she is. She >> Did you ever talk about like the I mean,
00:12:48
what she's been through is just unimaginable adversity and grief. Like, did you did like Yeah. Do you talk about
00:12:54
the drowning and the the loss of three siblings? >> Yeah. Look, I I've tried numerous times
00:12:58
to talk to mom about, you know, Dy and Norman and and William and and, you know, just what she went through and
00:13:04
even even my birth father. Um, but she won't go there. You know, she's I I came
00:13:10
back in 2000 to coach the Warriors and in those first 5 years. My my siblings never had a had a headstone. I didn't
00:13:18
actually know where they were. So, I'm in my 30s before I've actually gone and
00:13:21
found them up in Manu and Fangad where they've been buried. And I got a a good
00:13:25
mate of mine, Willie Helin, who was our our gearman at the time. Um, does Lori Hail's job now at the Warriors. He used
00:13:31
to do that for me. And Daniel, he worked in a in a headstone place. He did me up
00:13:36
a headstone and I actually went and put it on my my sisters and my brothers and and just so happened that just around
00:13:41
the corner my my birth father was buried there as well. So, you know, when you when you're sort of looking at that
00:13:47
growing up and and in the back of my mind, I knew that I had this other sister and these other two brothers and
00:13:54
and a birth father, but I'd never ever spoken about it, you know. Um, my surname, my original surname is Alice.
00:14:02
Um, and probably probably related to the Mark Alicees of the world and all these
00:14:07
people. um you know um which I've often seen when an Alice runs out on a sporting field I'm just gez are my
00:14:14
cousins like you do they do I you know do we fit in each other's um [ __ ] papa
00:14:20
somewhere um but I was raised I was raised a camp you know like that's that's when my dad came and who I've
00:14:28
only ever known as my father um and and raised me with my mother um I was raised
00:14:34
a Kemp and and I've I've I've kept that you know, um, >> and it's just, you know, when I go and
00:14:40
talk to my mom, hey, what about this other side? It my mom is pretty much basically
00:14:49
taken it with her, you know, she's she's whether she's dealt with it or not, I I
00:14:54
can't judge her for that, but I can only ask her so many questions that she will
00:14:59
give me answers to, but I won't push her, you know, cuz she's already been
00:15:02
through enough. I had um the the great Mark Graham on the podcast a couple of years ago and and I I asked if he wanted
00:15:08
to talk about his son who took his own life and and his answer was like not not really Dom because if I if I talk about
00:15:14
it it's painful so I just try not to talk about it or think about it. Maybe that's the same with your mom. It's just
00:15:19
too difficult. >> Yeah. Yeah, it is. And and and it is painful. I I wouldn't say it's painful. Look, two
00:15:26
of my faro brothers committed suicide. Um I I bought one of them home when I was at Newcastle. Uh he was the same age
00:15:33
as me. He was brought up in my house with me, a puck. And then my older brother Phil um who was named after my
00:15:39
father. Um a couple of years later, he did the same thing, you know, and and I never spoke about it for years. You
00:15:46
know, I actually I lost the plot the second time when Phil did it. You know, I didn't he he in his note said, you
00:15:52
know, just contact my bro and he'll sort everything out. And I got really hurt by
00:15:56
that comment. um because I was talking to him and he was in intimating to me that he was thinking about giving up,
00:16:04
you know. Um and in hindsight, you know, there's a lot of stuff that I've learned
00:16:10
throughout my life that I got to a stage in my life um where I was seeing a counselor and a psycho psychiatrist, a
00:16:18
psychologist and and and got to understand that there was actually help there that could have um been really
00:16:25
helpful for these two BS as well. So I I I get what what Mark Graham, the great Mark Graham, you know, and I'll tell you
00:16:32
a story about that one, too. But >> the great the great Mark Graham when you
00:16:35
when you're losing a family to suicide. Um >> the painful like everyone's got a different
00:16:42
way just, you know, there's a lot of hurt there >> cuz you don't know could you have done
00:16:46
anything else, you know, what did what did I miss? How come I'm in the you know
00:16:51
cuz my my story is exactly the same as those two and why am I still here? >> You know what I mean? So, it's a it's a
00:16:58
you know, it's a real um those are the those are the things that I really haven't told people about, Dom. You
00:17:04
know, it's it's things that you're dealing with. Um you know, you look at
00:17:08
that my my father, you know, my real father died at 29. My father raised me died at 41. Um my mom has to sit there.
00:17:16
She's lost two husbands and three kids. Um she's 84 now, 85 and still stubborn
00:17:24
as ever. you know what I mean? And just won't give in. Um, but on, you know,
00:17:29
glass half full is looking at those things that my mother's got and and you can you can see, well,
00:17:34
>> yeah, man. Well, a lot of people have told me you're stubborn, you know,
00:17:37
you're resilient. Um, and if you're looking at for someone for a bit of inspiration, you look at you, you know,
00:17:43
I don't have to look too far. >> Thanks for being so open about that. [ __ ] you've done the work, eh?
00:17:50
>> Yeah. Yeah. What happened? Did it just reach ahead in your life and >> m well to be to be honest I'm like um
00:17:59
there's only a couple of people that know my story you know um one of one of
00:18:02
them is my best mate um Bruce Sherik who runs his own him and Posty Craig Inis they run their their was a man what used
00:18:09
to be called a sporty they run their business together um good good followers Alan Allen you know the trainer great
00:18:16
horse trainer is another good mate of mine um but yeah it's it's sort of
00:18:21
there's not too many you you live with that. You live with that in the background, you know what I mean? So,
00:18:26
you you're getting on with life. Um, and you're trying to to build a picture
00:18:32
where the picture that you grow up with isn't you sort of I would always say to
00:18:36
myself, there's something wrong with this picture. You know, there's something wrong with this picture. You
00:18:39
know, why why um is this picture so distorted? You know what I mean? And it got to it got to a stage in my career
00:18:49
when I I finally broke down and and it was in 2013. Um I got into some serious depression. Um
00:18:57
and I lock you locked myself away and I was getting some help from some good psychologists and psychiatrists. And I
00:19:05
remember Emma um Holmes who was my psychologist. She's brilliant. She said to me, um, look, if it if it it wasn't a
00:19:14
matter of if it was going to happen, it was when it was going to happen. And and
00:19:17
it's happening for you right now. Um, and of course, I was really busy, you know, I grew up and I kept busy and I
00:19:24
kept busy from a really young age. Um, but it, you know, going right back to what we're talking about, you know,
00:19:30
which is, you know, not not about footy is, you know, the picture for me. I I remember I remember going to a mate's
00:19:38
place from school one day and and we moved down to Tatanaki. Um I was five going on six I think first I remember
00:19:47
primma ones at your central school >> and um I was fluent in real you know
00:19:52
what I mean? So we talked mi I I didn't talk like this you know my my language
00:19:56
when I went to Tanaki >> was Mai and when I went down there I was like what these flash fellas talking
00:20:02
this this English all the time you know what I mean? Um, and my my mom and my mom was fluent in T or she still is and
00:20:09
and and she gave up on it. You know, it was like, well, we've got to fit in and
00:20:13
we're not talking like that anymore. And all of a sudden, um, you know, growing
00:20:17
up in this town and and talking like this and, you know, we're state family waiting for waiting for homes. We we
00:20:23
spent our first two years down there in a caravan. Um, so six f six people in a 15t caravan down at the the motor camp.
00:20:33
Um but there were three caravans. There were two two uncles. My uncles next to my dad. Um but brilliant time, you know,
00:20:40
surfing down there at the bar and and fishing and running and that. But we were sort of going around this sort of,
00:20:48
you know, waiting for a house, you know, stayed home. Can't wait to get into a
00:20:52
house. And every time we got a house, we'd have other family members living with us. And it was busy all the time.
00:20:57
And I remember never forget one time a young bloke by the name of Frank Rose in my class said, "You want to come
00:21:02
around?" and you know his play date I yeah I'll come around and went around
00:21:06
he's just up the up the road from us and why is not a very very big place and we
00:21:11
drive in there and it's it was like if I could explain the picture that you get
00:21:16
in your head it was like watching an American movie where that that twotory white picket fence in the house with a
00:21:23
nice driveway and you open the garage with beautiful cars and bikes I used to love bikes in the shed only picked mates
00:21:30
who had bikes I could go and take their bikes and cruise. Um, and I go in there and
00:21:36
and you know, carpet on the floor. Um, just really really nice. Things are nice, you know, like and and meal time
00:21:45
was nice and it was discussion and commentary and and and all this stuff and you go to sleep and you wake up in
00:21:52
the morning and go, "Man, that was really really cool." And then not long after that, I go down
00:21:58
to the freezing works um the way to the University of Borthwicks and you're sitting in there and and lo and behold,
00:22:05
but who should be working next to my father but Frank Rose dead? >> And I was the type of kid that looked at
00:22:11
things in pictures and went there's something not right with this picture. You know, is this guy's working with
00:22:18
next to my dad? Why are we in a state home? um why have you got all those beautiful things there? Your dad's
00:22:25
working with my dad, >> you know, and from that early age was when I sort of made the the decision
00:22:32
that there must be a different there must be a different way than than the way that I'm living. Um and and I just
00:22:40
sort of went on a I guess my another journey where I had two sets of mates. I had my Miy mates and I had my Parker
00:22:46
mates, you know. Um, and there was this way of doing things um, with some of my park and mildy mates and then this way
00:22:53
of doing things with some of my park and mildy mates. And I was seeing both spectrums of of being bored up. Um, and
00:23:01
I wrote in a diary a long time. You know, I used to write a they call it journaling now. Um, but I I used to call
00:23:08
it, you know, diary. And I used to have this big red book. And I remember the the the goal I was to have a two-story
00:23:15
home, you know, that I own and and you know, I've built it and it's mine. And
00:23:21
it was from that earlier memory of going to Frank Rose place. Um and so you know
00:23:27
from from that that moment for me um there are certain periods in my life in my football career that I can put a
00:23:36
picture to it and and that picture is so strong um in my head that it became belief
00:23:45
>> and then it became a goal and then it became ticking boxes. You know what I
00:23:49
mean? and getting getting to this um place where I said in my head there must be something different.
00:23:58
>> Must be more to life. >> Yeah. Like you know I always say you know I'm see my dad was a tough bugger
00:24:06
you know he he um he ruled with an irist you know I got so many hidings. I'm I'm
00:24:12
talking you know I'm not talking you know I'm not talking out of shop here
00:24:16
because it's it happens you know there's I'm not unique and you know a lot of our
00:24:20
our faro that that be brought up like this are hiding was nothing you know one time I threw a football through a window
00:24:27
practicing my I used to play halfback you I was a little when I was tiny mate you know it was I used to have long hair
00:24:33
down to my ass you know um no one called me Tony my name was Mac and and and Mac
00:24:39
was shortened from smack because I used always get a smack and and I was a tiny little blondheaded whippet, you know,
00:24:45
cuz my my birth father was European and my mom was Mai. So my dad was was full Marty. So when I was looking at when
00:24:54
they're looking at our family, I'm vanilla compared to my brothers and sisters. Um but he bought me up like his
00:25:00
own and and you didn't do anything wrong, mate. You know, like you you you want something to [ __ ] cry about,
00:25:06
I'll give you something to cry about. Now don't cry. So you get a crack and
00:25:09
then you I'm telling you don't cry. You want something else to cry about. It was
00:25:13
that type of stuff. And remember throwing a football through a window one day practicing. I was playing halfback
00:25:18
and [ __ ] used to love rugby playing halfback for the first 15s at school. And then I was practicing Sid Gar used
00:25:24
to do that wrap around the back dive pass, you know? So I'm practicing that [ __ ] went through the window, didn't
00:25:29
it? In the house >> and GL glass used to be really thin back then. real mate. The thing with it, I
00:25:34
didn't notice this, but it was actually I threw it that well that it went through, but it it and it and it only
00:25:40
the glass took out you could tell was a circle. I never picked that up. So, me and my older fun brother Phil was home
00:25:48
and my sister was there and um we'd come up with this. I knew I was going to get
00:25:52
a hiding if we didn't [ __ ] work this out. So, dad gets home from work and we'd made up the story that, you know, I
00:25:58
slammed the window and it broke. [ __ ] Old man's obviously got out of the car,
00:26:01
taking one to look there's a circle in there and said, "What's going on?" And
00:26:04
I've said, "Oh, I've slammed the window." You know, and it broke. And he
00:26:07
went, "Okay." Said to Phil, "Hey, Phil, what happened?" "Oh, sorry, uncle. Um,
00:26:14
he slammed the window." He goes, "My sister, so Blackie, what happened?" And
00:26:20
she goes, "He threw the football through it." Well, that was it. I got a I got a
00:26:23
towing, mate. I got an absolute bounced around the the living room. And um the worst thing about that was when when I
00:26:31
got a tallying and then he gives me some change and says now he used to make me run all the time you know get up to that
00:26:37
shop you got 5 minutes you get up there dairy get some butter and get back here don't be don't be I'm gone you're on the
00:26:41
clock and I used to always be on the watch and off I went and and Kenna who owned the Kenna Rogers who owned the
00:26:47
dairy up the road there knew that this sort of [ __ ] was going on and I ran and
00:26:52
grabbed the butter and threw the change at Kenna you know and he and and he's
00:26:56
still tell he's still alive But hey, he still tells that story. Um, and I got
00:27:00
home and and the old man go, "Yep, just in time." You know, just in time. And
00:27:04
um, I just, you know, when you when you go through that sort of stuff, you know,
00:27:10
you you're sort of thinking, you know, this although he was a really tough man, my old man, and I read these
00:27:18
things about, you know, guys saying, "Oh, you know, you're cowards for beating your wife up and you're beating
00:27:23
your kids up and stuff like that." My dad weren't a coward, you know what I
00:27:27
mean? He just didn't know any better. So he he would tell us stories about him
00:27:32
being given a hiding and and and in my head, my logical head was saying monkey see, monkey do type thing. Um and my
00:27:42
picture was there must be a better way. There's a different way. So um you know,
00:27:48
you you're sort of watching, you're learning, you you're looking at all
00:27:52
these different habits. Um, you're getting older and when I look when I look, you know, my man my my my old man
00:27:59
was this really soft giant, you know, you you Bud Spencer, >> the comedian.
00:28:04
>> Bud Spencer, the Italian, he used to hit people on the head with a with his fist.
00:28:09
>> Well, there was one my old man, you know, anyone of whit the cops if they
00:28:12
had a problem, they couldn't get rid of the the the issues and they call my old
00:28:15
man up, you know, he stand at the front door said, "What the [ __ ] do you guys
00:28:18
want?" They used to [ __ ] draw straws to go up and talk to him. He was that
00:28:22
guy, you know. So, um, but he was no, he wasn't a coward, you know, he was just
00:28:28
bought up that way to raise us the only way that he knew knew how. And when my dad died at 41, me and
00:28:38
him were becoming really close. I I I was actually because my pictures were changing all the time. I was having
00:28:45
discussions with my father and and this one of my biggest regrets was that he died at 41 because um
00:28:52
>> How old were you at the time, >> mate? I was I was 20. I was at Newcastle. Um I got a phone call after
00:28:59
training one day. It broke my heart cuz cuz I was building a relationship with with my dad since I turned pro, you
00:29:05
know, cuz my dad and I'll tell you some stories about the footy when we get to
00:29:09
there. But um my dad just wanted me to be a Kiwi, >> you know what I mean? So when I started
00:29:16
doing that and becoming that player and that person, it was breaking down other doors, you know, it was breaking down
00:29:22
other barriers between me and him. And we were starting to talk to each other and I and one of my biggest regrets is
00:29:28
not having the conversation with him is why did you do all that stuff, you know,
00:29:32
cuz I think I think when you think about it, he was 41, you know, and I was I was
00:29:37
getting into my 20s, so we weren't that far apart, >> you know. So, um, but you know, it it
00:29:44
taught me a lot, Dom, it taught me, you know, one thing it it taught me the there's not too many people I know that
00:29:51
that come from White Titter that aren't tough, you know. So, you know, there's
00:29:55
there's that toughness that you've got there. There's also um that resilience that you've got from
00:30:03
that upbringing, you know. Um, but it also it it also really cemented to me about making sure um,
00:30:12
you know, you're going to have a chance yourself to to to to model one day. >> Um, when you have kids, how you going to
00:30:19
do that? >> And you chose to break the cycle. >> Yeah. Yeah. And they and and they talk
00:30:25
about that a lot. Um, so yeah, to to get to that stage when you when you do finally have kids, you know, and there
00:30:33
were and and there were habits that I had to break, you know, there was some some real habits and I still struggle
00:30:37
today with with a lot of them. Um, but it's in, you know, it's a DNA trait that
00:30:42
you picked up and you've been given and you live with it for so long and then
00:30:46
>> what like like anger or something? >> Uh, yeah, anger. An you know, obviously
00:30:51
anger have lots of anger issues, you know. I was I was always, you know, well, jeez, I'd probably have more than
00:30:58
250 games if I didn't get sent off so many times, you know. Um, but, you know,
00:31:03
you just you just never back you never back down like >> and you always I was the type of guy that if you wanted
00:31:10
to pick a fight, then okay, well, whether whether it's going to finish today or it's going to finish in 5 years
00:31:16
time, I was probably the worst break to pick it cuz I would never let it go. Um um but there's reasoning behind some of
00:31:23
that too is why I'm you know I've done some of the things in my life that I've
00:31:27
done. Um because I don't want my kids to have to continue that trait. >> What impact does it have on a child
00:31:38
seeing like seeing your mom get get beaten up by your dad? >> Oh, it's traum it's traumatic,
00:31:45
you know. It's um it's it's hard to describe, you know, like like this, you know, it's the the
00:31:54
the sound of of skin, you know, and collision, you know, it's I play I played a sport where the sound of skin
00:32:02
and collision was actually inspiring for me when I when I used to run into people
00:32:06
and bits and pieces like that. But when it's, you know, your your parents fighting and and you're young at a young
00:32:12
age watching that type of stuff, um, it's traumatic, you know, and and again,
00:32:17
like in 2013 when that all came tumbling down, that that wall came tumbling down,
00:32:22
it was something that I had to deal with. They I got diagnosed with PTSD. >> Um, and it was all around watching my
00:32:27
dad beat my mom up, you know. So, and I always thought it was I had a hatred for
00:32:32
my father, but I I it was actually worked out that it was for my mother, >> cuz my mother was a little bit like me,
00:32:39
you know? She would she would say, "Come on, then kill me." You know what I mean?
00:32:43
And I'd be yelling out, "No, stop." And she'd be going, "No, no." And I'd be
00:32:47
saying, "Stop, Mom. Stop." You know, "Be quiet." And she would continue to say
00:32:51
it. And of course in my head I couldn't put it together over the years until
00:32:57
later on when Emma said to me, "It's actually not your dad, it's your mom."
00:33:02
>> You know, so um it's I wouldn't wish it on any kid to be brutally honest. Um
00:33:08
there's, you know, talking to talking to young people now and and you know, watching,
00:33:16
you know, what's going on in society. Um especially how tough it is for some of
00:33:19
our um you know that I think people actually miss the bigger picture, you know, of like
00:33:29
school for me, I love school, you know, I hated education, >> but from 9 till 3:00 it was my escape. M
00:33:37
>> you know and if we we had a great sports team I was in it didn't matter summer or
00:33:42
winter anything remember remember them I never never I'll play cricket at primary
00:33:46
school but not game cricket you know what I mean they said oh you want to come play cricket I was yeah man just
00:33:52
give me a bat um but but that school that schooling thing for me was such a a relief you
00:33:59
know because you just sort of got away you got away you got to hang out with your mates you got to play sport um yeah
00:34:05
and you and you got to see things differently through, you know, different ways that other people lived. Um,
00:34:11
>> and a lot of those guys still today, they're, you know, my best mates. You
00:34:15
know, they they sort of knew what was going on. Um, they've helped me out a lot in my career and and I'm one of
00:34:22
those BS like like many of us that could have gone either way, you know, but for
00:34:26
a couple of conversations, a couple of pictures being built in my head that I went, "Oh, actually, yeah, no, I can do
00:34:31
that." >> Um, yeah. And and it's um yeah, it's a it's it's
00:34:39
interesting talking about it cuz it's the first time that I've really had the
00:34:43
courage, I think, to to say, "Oh [ __ ] man. You don't." And I've said this to a
00:34:48
couple of guys. I said, "You don't know me from a [ __ ] bar or so."
00:34:52
>> So, you know, be really careful what you say. All right? Cuz I haven't told
00:34:56
anyone, you know, and the other thing with that, too, is that people see me as that footballer. So when I do get big
00:35:03
and aggressive and scary, um, they go that [ __ ] footballer guy, you know, >> brash, loud mouth.
00:35:09
>> I know. Yeah. But but they don't they don't really know me, you know? They
00:35:12
don't they don't know the things that I done. I bought bought bought my first
00:35:15
business at 19 in Newcastle. Bought a valet business. >> Um, I call it cafe here in Oakland. I
00:35:21
had one of those in Newcastle. Um, I've had childcare centers in retirement, you
00:35:25
know, developed a retirement license um for a village. um you know owned my own carard you know sort of um been a
00:35:33
general manager being a CEO you know so there's this other side to me that a lot
00:35:38
of people don't know about written programs for Ministry of Foreign Affairs uh and sport you know dealt with most of
00:35:43
the politicians and and the mo and and you know just had a chat to Shane Jones yesterday uh two days ago up in
00:35:50
Kittykitty you know what I mean like >> you you're sort of you're meeting and
00:35:54
greeting people along the way and you're developing all these skills and then all
00:35:58
of a sudden people say, "Oh, you just say football guy, but bro, you don't
00:36:01
know me." >> No, it's the same with any with anyone you see. You don't know the backstory.
00:36:06
You don't know the scars they've got on their back. You don't know anything
00:36:08
about them. Um, yeah, Jeez, we've been here for 36 minutes. We've hardly talked
00:36:12
about we haven't actually talked about sport at all yet. Is is is this tough
00:36:16
for you to talk about this stuff? Uh, I think I think it's, you know, like I
00:36:20
said to you, I've I've had many people know that there's something there and
00:36:25
asked me to come on their podcast, but I haven't really been ready. You know, I
00:36:28
did a I did an article in in um a magazine with Dale Husband where I sort of talked a little bit about my mental
00:36:36
health. >> Um, but not really the the mechanic behind it, you know. Uh, and it is
00:36:42
tough. It is tough, you know, like there's that stigma, what are you saying that for? and don't say that and blah
00:36:48
blah blah. But, you know, for anything, it's more for me to be able to say, "Hey, man." Like, you know, I'm actually
00:36:54
quite um I'm quite proud that I've had the opportunity to get it off my chest,
00:37:02
>> you know. Um >> Well, none of this was your fault. >> No. And and and I don't want I don't
00:37:08
want my kids to bear it, you know, like if I I don't want that trauma to be passed down. I want it to be
00:37:13
acknowledged. >> You know, I love my dad, you know. I >> Yeah. How How do you
00:37:18
>> I do I love him. I you know I go and visit him where he's buried up in photoy
00:37:22
all the time. You know, I'm going to take my brother up there. We're going to
00:37:24
go and you know, his grave's a little bit messy at the moment. We're going to
00:37:26
go and sort that out. >> Um but I saw who he was. You know what I mean? I experienced who he was, but I
00:37:32
actually saw beneath that before he died that there was a a big gentle man in there. Um,
00:37:40
and again with my mom, you know, like there's a there's another saying is that
00:37:45
some sometimes you just can't change people. >> So don't waste your time.
00:37:50
>> You know what I mean? And I always thought that I could change my mom, but
00:37:53
>> my mom is what you get from my mom today at 80 85 is what you got at 20. I'll
00:37:58
tell you another story about that. My mom lost a plot and and and we were living up in Nonadi in Faraday at the
00:38:04
time. I was I would have been between the ages of five or six. My mom went on a bender for 3 days
00:38:09
>> and I had a brother who was just started school and two sisters, one was in
00:38:13
nappies. Um, and she was gone and and I was left there to look after these kids in a state home with one room. So, we
00:38:20
had one room and there was a lovely lady there that helped me. But I would put the kids down, take my brother to
00:38:27
school, change my change my younger sister's nappy, um put them down in the room, and then I'd go hunting for my mom
00:38:33
who's out out, you know, obviously she was in a bad mental space and try and
00:38:37
find where she's at. Um and that was just sort of that was life, you know, and when I when when I reflect on it
00:38:44
now, like another time, you know, I'm going swimming in a in a water hole up
00:38:49
in Tikipunga. Um, and my family's there and I'm out there and having heaps of
00:38:53
heaps of fun with Fimana and up here and and Poto and and I come out of the water
00:38:58
like 3:00 in the afternoon and I'm in Mubbies and where's where's where's my
00:39:02
family and they've gone oh they're gone ticky pong and they live in white and I
00:39:07
said what do you mean they're gone and oh they're gone you're staying with us
00:39:10
and I was in I can vividly remember sitting in the back of a car in my wet shorts like it wasn't here's a bag you
00:39:16
know I'm going to pick you up next week I was at that house for 3 months Um, so when I when I reflect on it and
00:39:23
look back at it, it's like, well, like could you imagine a six-year-old doing
00:39:28
that, you know, like, hey, we're just going to leave you there. Don't don't
00:39:32
worry about anything. We'll come back and pick up in 6 months or, hey, I'm
00:39:35
just going to go and party for three nights. Can you look after these three siblings of yours and your and your six?
00:39:41
Um, but for me it was sort of, you know, uh, in my head when I look back on it, I
00:39:49
always thought that I was older, you know, I was like, I must have been older. But when you go back and you put
00:39:54
the the dots together, well, I didn't move down to white till one, >> you know what I mean? So, I must have
00:40:00
been five or six when I was doing that. Um, and there's all of those timelines
00:40:05
for me that when we're talking about this now, it's just a trigger in my head
00:40:08
going, "Oh, yeah, you remember that?" Um, but it sort of, you know, at the end
00:40:13
of the day, Dom, I guess that's what makes you is all those experience. >> It still doesn't make it right and it's
00:40:19
unbelievably sad. >> Like, do how did you not end like when you had kids of your own? How did like
00:40:24
how did you not like reflect on your own childhood and go actually that was really [ __ ] up and end up with a real
00:40:29
chip on your shoulder against your old man? >> Yeah. Um I look I' I'd have words to my
00:40:36
father you know in times when I you know I' you know why did you do that you know
00:40:41
why do why do I have to behave like that you know like you know you I think some
00:40:46
of your your emotions and your your traits that you pick up from that type of behavior um it's taken me a long long
00:40:53
time to get rid of those jealousy >> hatred anger you know those really tough
00:40:58
emotions um which I found were only really short emotions you know, cuz cuz love, empathy, um monarchy, you know,
00:41:07
they they are long um sort of longer affected emotions. Um and and and the other thing too is, you know,
00:41:19
I I couldn't I couldn't hate him. I could I couldn't hate him. I cuz I in my
00:41:25
head he was teaching me lessons that I now look back at um and I can tell you a football lesson
00:41:34
um that sort of got me on my journey and have got me to where I am today. You know, one thing I didn't want to to be
00:41:40
was raise my kids in a state home. >> You know, I we had no money. You know, I
00:41:46
I remember, you know, I was the gun footballer in all the football teams, you know. Um, some Saturday mornings I'd
00:41:52
get up, my mom and dad had been out all night and and I'd just have to get myself to to the car to get down to
00:41:58
Stratford or somewhere like that. And I remember coming back one time and just wishing that the father doesn't stop his
00:42:03
car to get a pie because that's what the kids did, you know, like you played your
00:42:06
game and then you stop and you cuz I had no money, you know what I mean? >> So these kids would jump out and get
00:42:13
pies and one of one of the fathers would look at me and go, "Oh, you know, here
00:42:18
boy, give me a dollar. and I'd go in, get the pie, go, "Fuck, thank God." Like
00:42:23
that. But there'd be other times when I'd sit there and I just go, "Fuck, what
00:42:26
am I going to do?" Like, "I can't I can't get out of the car." Um, but I,
00:42:30
you know, it was it that was my life and it was something that when you look back
00:42:36
at, you know, it it was our life, you know, and I'm and I'm I'm not talking
00:42:42
this I'm not this is not unique, you know. This is what what is I think becoming more unique is people wanting
00:42:49
to get out of that life, you know, and doing something about it. Um, and I I can tell you a story like when I was we
00:42:57
went to a tournament down in Christ Church and uh I was in the under 15 side for
00:43:02
Tatanaki. My dad, you know, he he love my dad told guys when I was in Fad playing up at Eastern Suburbs, he's
00:43:09
going to be an all black one day. You should have picked him in your team. you know, he was that
00:43:13
>> believer that I could play footy, you know. Um, but I went down to Christ
00:43:17
Church and, you know, Nitro was playing and all these all these Oaklanders jumped out jumped off the the bus and an
00:43:23
Oakland player there in his jersey with a mustache and a cigarette on 15, you know. I'm thinking, [ __ ] what am I
00:43:28
doing here? You know, I'm I'm I was tiny. I'm long hair. I was playing half
00:43:33
back. I would have been 35 kilos, 40 kilos. um ringing wet and got talled up in this under 13 tournament, under 15
00:43:41
tournament, but I was 12 turning 13. Yeah. So after that tournament, the old man says for the whole year, anywhere we
00:43:50
went, cousins, family members, friends, that's my boy. He's going to go to
00:43:54
Australia next year with the Australian school boys. And in my head, I'm going,
00:43:58
what the [ __ ] are you talking about? Look, I've just been to this tournament.
00:44:01
They're giants. You know, the [ __ ] bloke leaning on the post, Lafu, I said,
00:44:06
who's that father? He's [ __ ] a player. I said, I'm never going to get
00:44:08
to that size, you know. And he would say relentlessly to no matter who came up to
00:44:14
him, that's my son. He will go to Australia next year with the New Zealand school boys. So, we get and it just so
00:44:22
happened in that 13 14 year that I grew a little bit and we go to the tournament
00:44:26
and I play my play my heart out because my dad said I'm going for Australia and
00:44:31
make the southern zone and we beat Northern Zone and they name the team. They don't name me. And I cry, break
00:44:38
down in Monaco rugby league rooms in front of everyone cuz my heart's broken
00:44:42
cuz my dad had his heart set on me playing for the school boy Kiwis. And he's looked over at me. Kate, shut up.
00:44:49
Come here. You know, like that. I've walked over to him. He >> put my head on his shoulders, you know,
00:44:53
and he said, "Oh, you're in. It's just that I had long hair." And he said, "Oh,
00:44:57
we've got to cut your hair." Cuz they said they can't get into any leagues,
00:45:00
which is [ __ ] You can't get into leagues clubs with long hair. Yeah. Um, so the power of the picture again when I
00:45:09
when I look back on things is that, you know, this this man that was such a tough bugger was actually giving me
00:45:19
belief, you know, which which I've had ever since. And I've taken that um train
00:45:25
of thought and in most things that I've done and gone and built the picture and
00:45:29
built the goal and the vision and gone, okay, well, this is where I'm at. this
00:45:33
is what I want to do with it and try to get to that next step. >> And that's where my football career
00:45:38
started. So, um, a lot of people when they say, "What's your football career
00:45:43
like?" You know, like, "Well, I made every New Zealand team under the sun
00:45:45
from the age of 15. So, I played 15s when I was 14. I captained the 15 school boys the following year. I made the 17s
00:45:52
two years in a row from 15 16. Then I made the junior Kiwis at 16, 17, 18. And then I went straight into the Kiwi side.
00:46:00
So, you know, my career journey um from that, hey, he's going to play for the
00:46:06
school boys the following year every single year after that was was picking up a black jersey. Um and and again that
00:46:15
you know that that journey to go to professional um in my 15th so I went to Australia for that 15
00:46:26
jersey that he he said and paramed my favorite team Ray Price Eric Growth Eric Growth was my favorite player um Mick
00:46:33
Cronin's Peter Sterling Paul Taylor at the back Steve Ella could name them and
00:46:37
and I remember I remember dreaming but I was just about to kick off for param. Mom woke me up. I was 12. [ __ ] what
00:46:42
are you doing, mom? [ __ ] I'm just about to kick off a paramedic. That's how
00:46:46
strong this picture was in my head. And um but I I ended up on the hill in par in Krenella in the Krenella Hill when I
00:46:54
went over as a 14-year-old with the New Zealand school boys and our bullet took us to Kronella Paramea game and I was
00:46:59
just couldn't wait to see Paramea. But I'm watching these two Kronella dudes
00:47:04
rag doll blossom. I mean I mean like it's you you know those cartoons where they pick someone
00:47:10
up by the back of the collar and they're going smacking them over like that and I was
00:47:15
sitting there going who the [ __ ] are those two like that? Find out they're
00:47:20
Curt and Dane Sorenson. >> Yeah. And they're from New Zealand. And that moment that moment the bullet said
00:47:27
to me that that's Curt and Dane Sorenson. They're from New Zealand. I went that's what I want to do. M
00:47:32
>> and I was 14 and I was standing on the hill and I remember I remember going
00:47:36
back to school at high school Mr. heard a um rest of s math teacher said to me, Kemp, I I was a little bit naughty at
00:47:44
school and got quite a few of the camp listen here type thing. Um and he he said to me, Kemp, what are you going to
00:47:51
do when you grow up? You know, giving me the you know, if you don't do your math,
00:47:54
you're not going to have anything. And I said, I'm going to go and play professional rugby league. And he said,
00:47:59
you're a dreamer. >> And it actually stuck with me. And I and I was like, yeah, I'm [ __ ] dreaming
00:48:05
about that all the time. You know what I mean? And to and to his benefit, Mr. Cur, I ran back into him down at the
00:48:10
freezing works in the butcher shop. Oh, in my 20s, early 20s, and he actually come up to me and he said, "Oh, you made
00:48:16
it." And I said, "Yep." I said, "I told you I was going to be a professional
00:48:20
sportsman." Um, but yeah, that's that sort of period there when I was growing
00:48:26
up and building, you know, where I wanted to be. Yeah. I could actually, like I said to you right at the
00:48:32
beginning of the conversation, I could actually put that picture and that time in that spot and I still remember it,
00:48:40
you know, thank God I haven't got CTE. >> You you you you mentioned um earlier
00:48:45
that you you were like goal setting or journaling. Um where did that come from? Like a moldy a moldy teenager from
00:48:51
Waitra in the 1980s. It seems pretty out there. >> Who who taught you who taught you how to
00:48:56
do that or where did that idea come from? A lot of it, a lot of it came cuz I would I I was a dreamer mate. I like I
00:49:03
we got a place down there where our rugby league club is in Clifton Park. Um it's a it's our forefathers had this
00:49:09
wonderful idea to put our rug rugby league club up there. Um and it's the biggest it's right opposite the high
00:49:15
school. It's the biggest green space down there in in WA and you can play all
00:49:20
your sport there, you know. So we played our touch, our softball, our league, um
00:49:24
all of our school sports on this field. I used to go down there and lie. I I I love the dark, so I used to go down
00:49:30
there at night and lie there with my take my dog down and lie down there and just look up at the stars and just
00:49:35
dream, you know. And then I started I just started journaling, you know. And back in those days, journaling started
00:49:41
when you were in intermediate when they the girls would give you those journals and and it was about you, you know, and
00:49:47
they and they'd write the questions and it would say, "What's your name? What's
00:49:51
your nickname? Where do you live? What do you want to do? um Who's Your Girlfriend? Dada, all that sort of
00:49:57
stuff. You know, it was these books that they'd hand out. And so I sort of went,
00:50:02
well, [ __ ] I'm just going to write my own. And I would just write down things
00:50:05
inside my own journal. And I'd write about the girl I was seeing, you know what I mean? Um about the sports teams,
00:50:13
about [ __ ] my dad, you know, I've got this training. I trained for the junior
00:50:18
black black socks um alongside Johnny Lomax and Mark Roberts and Dean Rice and them cuz I was a good softballer too
00:50:26
>> and I remember I was just training too hard you know I had [ __ ] league to do
00:50:28
I was playing first 15 I had the softball training I remember journaling all that stuff and I'm just burning
00:50:32
myself out here um but what that what happened from there was then people would say something to me and I would
00:50:42
put it into writing okay and and I just knew do that, you know, I'll write this
00:50:48
down so I can go back and have a look at it. Um, and it wasn't just sport, it was
00:50:52
life, you know, I don't want to do this or I want to do this or whatever. Um,
00:50:57
just processing your thoughts and and that was basically it. And it was for me to look back on it and I'll tell you
00:51:02
I'll tell you a funny story about there's two stories to that. One one of
00:51:05
them is my best mate Bruce Sherik. I was going down to see a girl one night. Um,
00:51:10
it was was a school night was was uh, sorry, it was a Saturday night and it it was me heading down to to her place to
00:51:18
see her to have a bit of fun and he pulls up beside me. He was a first 15 captain and I was a half back. He was
00:51:24
second 5'8 in the first 15 of school and we sort of knew we were we were friends
00:51:28
but we weren't friends you know what I mean like he was a bit of a buffhead you
00:51:32
know the size of Bruce was you know he's not a very big man but he was that size
00:51:36
at school so he's a big man for his age at that he's got a big head um made him
00:51:41
look bigger um but he he sort of pulled up in his in his old man's Holden youth
00:51:48
I think it was he winds a window down just outside the mid eye there and he says what are you doing I said I'm just
00:51:53
going and, you know, had a bit of fun. He said, "Oh, why don't you come to a
00:51:56
party with me?" And I ended up jumping in the car with him and and I had a had
00:52:02
an absolute ball, you know, he's a [ __ ] great character, good fun. And and from that moment on, we became best
00:52:09
mates. But that night was really defining for me because he looked at me and he said to me, we're driving home,
00:52:14
he said, "What are you [ __ ] doing?" You know, he said, "You can play, man.
00:52:19
You can play. It's your ticket." you know, come on, knuckle down. He was he
00:52:24
was he's an agent now, but he was so he was saying way back then, knuckle down,
00:52:28
you can make it. He he could see it in me. So, that was another one of the those those pictures, but I put that in
00:52:35
my diary. And and from that p that moment on, then the diary started to change. It started to go, "Right, well,
00:52:43
what can I get out of this?" Um, and if I if I take that moment, so that moment
00:52:49
I was 15 and I take it to sitting out at Coatsville and he got a got a got a um block out of
00:52:56
Coat when I came back to coach the Warriors. I'd bought a piece of land out there building my home and I'm ready
00:53:02
open up a box that we had in storage and I pull out here's my journal. I see this
00:53:06
journal of 15 and inside this journal I said it goes um I want to be a professional sportsman
00:53:14
when I finish. I want to I want to own a two-story home on my own piece of land.
00:53:17
I don't want the bank to own it. I want to have two kids and I want to be happy.
00:53:22
And guess what? When I open that box up was when we were taking the furniture out to put in the house that I just
00:53:28
built out of Coatville and both my kids were at Coatville Primary School. >> How was that? Was that emotional?
00:53:35
>> Well, it was the power of goal setting. It was the power of pitches that it was
00:53:40
like I put that in a box at you know at 15 16 when I went on my journey cuz I went to Wellington first and ended up in
00:53:48
Newcastle then to England. It sat in a it sat in that box for that long and then we pulled it out and I started
00:53:54
reading it and I was like whoa I actually I actually wrote what was actually going to happen. So, you know,
00:54:02
I talk to a lot of kids about that, about the power of mindset. Um, you know, and and the and the power of
00:54:08
belief and the power of putting it down and and I still have my own vision board
00:54:11
today, which is, you know, always changing cuz they change a hell of a lot quicker these days than they they were
00:54:16
when you're a kid. >> Um, >> what's on it today? >> Oh, it's a it's a freedom is one of my
00:54:23
signs on it. You know, freedom is, you know, the ability to do what you want when you want, how you want. Um, and all
00:54:32
the things around that are what I'm currently doing, you know. So, I'm I'm
00:54:36
developing a 70acre property up in Kittykitty at the moment. Um, we're buying investments, you know, that will
00:54:42
put us in a position that we when we go to sell them that we can actually enjoy the last piece of our life, you know
00:54:48
what I mean? But I don't want to be that guy in the cemetery that's got everything and leaves it to everyone.
00:54:53
>> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? I want to be a guy that is happy >> as you get older. Um especially with my
00:54:59
body too because the other thing that rugby league gave me is a puckoo body. Um >> what does puckadoo mean?
00:55:06
>> Broken. >> Oh, is it is it broken? You look great shape. >> Yeah. Well, I I I keep moving. I think
00:55:11
moving movement is really important. I could I could be doing a bit more. Um but I've had a really bad run with my
00:55:17
knees lately and um as you can see, I got a couple of things in my hands from carpal tunnel um bits and pieces. But
00:55:24
yeah, I I always knew Dom, you know, like when you finish playing footy that I was going to pay the price, you know,
00:55:29
and I people say, "What would you do differently?" Well, I wouldn't do
00:55:31
nothing differently around the footy, but around the injuries, I would have, you know, I I I wish we had the the um
00:55:40
care, medical care that they've got today that that we never had back in our
00:55:44
days. >> Yeah. >> And that's a whole new story, that one. >> Yes. So, so you moved to Australia to
00:55:50
play for um this brand new club called the Newcastle Knights when you were 18. Um this is pre- internet as well. This
00:55:55
is when phone calls were like $11 a minute or something. What was that like going from White to Newcastle
00:56:01
Wellington? I went to Wellington. So I I pulled in the car with the old man and I
00:56:05
and I said to him, "I'm going to Wellington. How ty took me down there.
00:56:09
Um he went down there as a coach and and Newcastle came to Hutre one night to to
00:56:14
look at Sam Stewart um who was their inaugural captain for the Knights. great bloke Sammy. Um he he was sort of a
00:56:20
father figure to me not only at Randwick in Wellington but when I went to Newcastle and when I found out that they
00:56:26
were coming to to look at Sammy. I put as much linen on my legs as possible in a headband so that they
00:56:33
would notice me and and I actually had a shocker that night was against Leon so I
00:56:37
tried to chip over Fetu Henry who was 6'8 and when he put his hands up he was
00:56:41
7'2 caught the ball score in the corner but but the the chairman at the time said
00:56:46
yeah we'll take Sammy and we'll have that idiot that keeps trying things out
00:56:50
there can't pull it off which was me and that's how I ended up at Newcastle and
00:56:54
then we devised the rookie scheme um and wrote it to the New Zealand Rugby League
00:56:59
And I always had this mindset that if I get to Australia, I'm never coming home,
00:57:04
>> you know. So, we developed the rookie scheme to get to Australia. Um, once I
00:57:09
got there, I I took up the the New Zealand Rugby League and in a in a battle of the court case, took the high
00:57:14
court and then and took him a call for Australia Trade, which is actually my son's a lawyer. Um, when he went down to
00:57:20
do law down in Denedan, the teacher said, "Oh, you're not related to that
00:57:24
Tony Kemp." And then and Noah goes, "Yeah, that's my dad." and he goes, "Oh,
00:57:27
do you think he'll come down?" We actually do contract law on his case um
00:57:31
back in '89 against the New Zealand Rugby League. So, um, yeah, did that and
00:57:37
and went to Newcastle and like I love Newcastle, you know, like I I I can still remember my very first
00:57:46
carry in first grade um and getting absolutely coat hangered by Kerry Hemsley um in that great Balain side
00:57:54
that went on to play in the final that year against CRA. Um, but yeah, it's just it was like the final pieces of the
00:58:03
jigsaw puzzle when I was standing on that hill in Cornell coming together >> and then I can still smell the jersey
00:58:10
when I put it on, you know, and running out and even though they they've got a
00:58:14
picture of that tackle from Kerry Hensley in my first carry >> um just going man this is this is it.
00:58:22
you know, you've you've you've got to that that stage and um I spent six years
00:58:27
at Newcastle um and six wonderful years and you know, went to the finals a couple of times. We didn't quite win
00:58:33
anything. Um I always said that Newcastle win a grand final in the first 10 years and they won it on their 10th
00:58:38
year. >> Um but I've got some some great memories there, great people. Um got to mentor
00:58:44
Joey John's. Um he mentions that in his book. I think he um one one of my friends told me and and Matty John's uh
00:58:52
was a good mate of mine too and he was he was a neighbor and he actually last year sent me a text and said um hey
00:58:58
Kempy I just wanted to thank you mate for you know always giving me some time you know when I was there cuz none of
00:59:04
the other BS would a few [ __ ] there at the time too but um >> just culture of the time. Yeah, it was
00:59:10
just Well, mate, it it was it was, you know, got I got called a black [ __ ] so many times over there. I was like,
00:59:15
"Fuck, mate. You guys have got a tan that's darker than me." Um, but yeah, it
00:59:20
was it was it was it was a funny it was a funny time. Talking about that Mark Graham story, you know, like Mark Graham
00:59:26
is the best player that we've had in this country, you know what I mean? And
00:59:29
and I remember coming up the stairs in North Sydney and and it was like it was like a god, you know what I mean? Like
00:59:37
here I am, this 19year-old kid walking up in my Newcastle jersey. Mark Graham standing at the front with his beers
00:59:42
jersey on all ready to run the ball out and I'm sitting there going, "Oh [ __ ]
00:59:46
please don't come down my side today." You know, um and you and you and you're
00:59:51
looking at these great that you you're a kid going, "Shit, you know, these are
00:59:55
your idols." And then the next minute you're playing against them and you're
00:59:58
playing alongside them. Um, and that that was some that would be something that I'll never forget is having the
01:00:03
opportunity to play with some really really great what I think footballers. >> Legends of the game.
01:00:10
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. And and there's a ton of them. You know Kurt People say
01:00:14
who's the toughest bloke you ever played with? Kurt Sson without a doubt. You
01:00:17
know what I mean? I've seen him playing in England and and I seen the English
01:00:21
scrum break up. I was playing fullback at the time and the English scrum broke up and um all of the boys stood up and
01:00:26
said Kurt and when Kurt pulled his head up all the English boys put their head back in the scrum, you know what I mean?
01:00:30
I was like [ __ ] okay, well I'm behind him. So yeah, there's some there's some
01:00:34
great there were some great players >> that um the court case that you talked
01:00:38
about before um taking the New New Zealand Rugby League to court and winning. Um it feels like a dangerous
01:00:44
move at the time, beginning of your career, it could have potentially like cost you a spot in the Kiwis. Well,
01:00:51
yeah. Like, like they try to make a scapegoat of of me. Um, look, I I actually spoke to a few players and
01:00:59
said, "Look, this is what we're doing. You guys want to be in?" And and a few
01:01:02
of them said, "Yeah." But as soon as I pushed the go button, of course, it was
01:01:05
going to cost money. And they all pulled out and I was I was on the doll. So, I played rookie season for Newcastle. I
01:01:11
didn't have a contract. I was on a doll. Um, and I had no money and I was taking
01:01:17
these guys to the court in New Zealand. Of course, back in those days, you had to pay your way. Um, so I had to win,
01:01:23
you know, I had to win. Um, so it was dawning. I was I was 20 going on 21. Um, it cost me in real money 74,000
01:01:32
Australian dollars at the time. Um, when I got a quote, they said it was going to
01:01:35
cost me 25K. Um, the actual bills are closer to 80. Um, the first three years of my contracts were to pay that bill
01:01:43
because, you know, it's after tax. So, I've got to earn, pay my tax, and then
01:01:47
pay that bill. Um, but it was sort of, you know, >> was it a principal thing?
01:01:53
>> If you don't know me, if you if you know me, then you know that principles are
01:01:57
pretty it's the principle, you know what I mean? It's sort of I find it really
01:02:03
hard to step out if if I'm thinking something's wrong, you know? So, um, we did we did that here talking
01:02:11
to the high court. It cost me, you know, three years of earning capacity. In hindsight, when you look at it, that's
01:02:17
probably the reason why the Warriors came to town because, you know, that was in ' 89 and 95. They come into the
01:02:22
competition cuz the explosion of Kiwis that went to the the competition. Um, you talk to the Mad Butcher and the Dean
01:02:28
Lonigans of the world that actually can see that, you know, so they saw that, >> you know, what they were doing was
01:02:34
stopping our talent from growing. And and if I look at the catalyst to where New Zealand as a as a playing nation of
01:02:41
of players are at the moment, we would have still been well behind the eightball if that decision wasn't made
01:02:46
back in '89. Um >> and now, you know, we always wanted to be number one. I think once we get
01:02:51
there, you know, and if and if the international law doesn't keep [ __ ] around with the rules, um New Zealand is
01:02:58
going to be hard to knock off. >> Why didn't you just put that in the two
01:03:02
hard basket though, like most people would have done? Well, it's a it was the principal and
01:03:07
and I look in the in the court case, you know, I remember standing up in the in the box and talking to the judge and and
01:03:14
and and he said, "Well, what will you do if you don't win this case?" And I said,
01:03:17
"Well, probably guess I'll go back to White and work the freezing works
01:03:20
>> cuz man, I would have been a career ender." >> Well, yeah, because see back in those
01:03:25
days, you had to have played six tests or been on two tours. So, by the time it was harder to get in the Kiwi team than
01:03:30
to get out of it, you know. So um the average age of play players that turned professional was 26 you know like so I
01:03:37
retired from the Kiwis and after 25 tests I was 26. >> M >> you know I was and I used the rest of
01:03:43
the my career to to earn money. Um so there was no there was no other way for me other than at that time to go and try
01:03:50
and win this case because it made the difference of me having this dream of being a professional sportsman or going
01:03:57
home and working at the freezing works and I just didn't want to do that. I I I've never met your mom. All I know
01:04:03
about her is um the way you've described her. But um [ __ ] the apple doesn't fall
01:04:06
far from the tree, does it? No. No. No. And and and so much that me and her are more best mates than than mother and
01:04:13
son, you know, like we have a a good old laugh even though she hasn't got her
01:04:16
hearing aids in half the time um I talk to her. But yeah, look, you know, you look at mom. See, mom, both my parents
01:04:24
were were um you know, factory workers. You know, my mom worked for Teagle Poultry, but she was the
01:04:31
union rep, so she was the person everyone went to if there was something wrong, and mom would stick up for them,
01:04:37
you know. Um, my dad was a hard man of town, you know. If there was anything wrong, they'd go to get him. So, I the
01:04:44
apple didn't fall too far from the tree with that. You know, I can tell the story in England when I I come and I
01:04:49
broke my arm two or three times and I come back to training and um we had three colored BS in our team at the time
01:04:55
and and I walked into the the mess room where we we watch videos and and chill out and I said to I said to Faz and Dez
01:05:03
I said what's what's going on and they said oh you can't call us black [ __ ]
01:05:06
mate talking about the coach you know so I'm coming back trying to get ready to
01:05:11
play and my mates who I wasn't captain at at the time, but I was the guy that
01:05:17
people would come to and well, you can't call us black [ __ ] And so I stepped
01:05:22
out of the room and had to get inside my head and go, what do you do? You know, and I'm talking to myself, what do you
01:05:27
do? Do you stand up for that which is wrong or do you let it go and just get on with it, be ridden like a donkey?
01:05:36
Yeah. >> So, I walked back into the room and I said, "Okay, boys, this is what's going
01:05:41
to happen. I'm going to go into that room. I'm going to tell him you can't do
01:05:43
that and I'll probably be done." All right, that'll be me. In my head, I'm
01:05:47
going, "No way in the world if you're a coach, you can someone come and say that
01:05:50
to you and you got to get rid of him." So, I actually went into the room. I
01:05:53
said to the coach, "Hey, man, you know what's going on?" "Hey, Kempy, how you
01:05:56
going?" I said, "I just want to What do you want?" I said, "I just got to tell
01:05:59
you, mate, you can't say that." All right, that's wrong. Got BS in that room
01:06:03
in there. They're really upset. I didn't say it. So, you're going, "Well, [ __ ]
01:06:07
They said that and you're saying that." I said, "Oh, hey, I'm just the
01:06:09
messenger." Just can't say that. you know, so that was me. Like, you know,
01:06:14
the court case is the same thing. Hey, well, that's wrong. You know, it's a
01:06:17
restraint of trade. My trade is football. Why are you stopping me from playing football? Um, and there were so
01:06:22
many times in my career that that's happened, you know. So, and on that occasion, sure enough, the following
01:06:29
year, I'm punted, you know, I'm heading off to Wakefield. Um, hey, it it is what
01:06:34
it is, you know, and it's probably to be honest and I've said this to a couple of
01:06:38
people, there's probably more bridges that I've burnt because of having that
01:06:42
stance um than towing the party line and and >> I got to say that I'm comfortable with
01:06:48
it, you know. Um, some, you know, as I'm getting older, I would have done it a
01:06:52
little bit differently. Um, but yeah, if the principles strong within me that, you know, it's there's a difference
01:06:58
between right or wrong. There's no there's no gray area. >> Yeah. >> Oh, good on you. cuz it takes a a
01:07:02
considerable amount of courage to do that. >> Yeah. Or or you're dumb, you know, or
01:07:09
you're not very smart. Sucker for punishment. Yeah. >> Um do you do you recall um the moment
01:07:17
you got named in the Kiwis for the first time? >> Was it was it a TV announcement, a phone
01:07:22
call? How does it happen? >> Yeah. No, no, no. It's it's it's announced it's announced over look
01:07:29
one thing we we didn't do back well back then was announcements you know like um
01:07:34
it's generally announced after trials um you know I was I was I was meant to play
01:07:39
in the 88 World Cup at Eden Park I got hurt in the last trial hurt my shoulder and that's when Gary Mercer went to
01:07:44
fullback um had a shocker Ming had a shocker back there Alfie Langer I remember I remember Gary Freeman and and
01:07:51
Ming Mercer having a crack at each other at test in it and it was all around that
01:07:55
Alfie Langanger sideep that went around him at Eden Park you know it was quite quite hilarious. Um but I got injured
01:08:01
and and then in ' 89 um they played the Australian Series down here and they
01:08:05
named the team um after you know a certain round which I got named and and got named opposite um Kevin Edo Edor who
01:08:14
was my best mate you know um that we went through all their age groups together so he'd made it in ' 88 I made
01:08:20
in ' 89 so we got to play with each other um and on the back of that some legends in that that series too you know
01:08:26
at the end of the year went to England and Curt Sorenson was still playing and Huey Man and Dean Bell, um Daryl
01:08:33
Williams, you know, um Mark Helia, all those guys when I was just a a young a young fell. So, um it was a pretty proud
01:08:41
moment, you know. Um my dad was still alive then. Um you know, he drive his car to, you know, didn't like flying.
01:08:47
He'd drive his car down to Christ Church to watch and um up to watch the second
01:08:52
one and and and I think the third one was here at Mount Smart. So, um, yeah, I remember those those those games, those
01:09:00
tours, um, like they were yesterday when you think about them. Um, and and again,
01:09:06
it was, you know, there's there's moments in your career where you can remember I remember pulling on my white
01:09:12
ta premier jersey for the first time and and I idolized those guys, you know, they were my club, they my club, my my
01:09:20
my childhood club, grew up watching all these legends play. Um, and then when I got to wear the Premier jersey, I
01:09:26
remember pulling that jersey and I still got it. Um, and then I went to Randwick
01:09:30
and I remember the first game I pulled it on for them like I smelt it. I could feel it. And the same thing went for all
01:09:35
the Kiwi jersey. So um, I buried all those jerseys with my father when he died in ' 91. So every every jersey that
01:09:42
I had um, representative jersey up until that stage I put in a coffin with him. And it's quite funny cuz all my cousins
01:09:49
when they come down and my dad's lying there in state and they seen all these
01:09:52
jerseys and they're pulling them up and I'm going keep your hands off those.
01:09:56
They're not for you you buggers, you know. So, uh yeah, he was he was he was a real proud man about wearing that
01:10:05
black jersey, you know. Um so, yeah, somewhere up there in photo if you pull if you pull up pull up that man out of a
01:10:12
hole, there's some decent jerseys down there. That was um a hell of an Australian a
01:10:18
hell of a way to make your test debut like um your Wally Lewis, captain of Australia, Melmaninger on the side. Um
01:10:24
yeah. Are you familiar with the term imposter syndrome? >> Uh yeah, I am. >> Were you were you [ __ ] yourself
01:10:30
playing for the Kiwis for the first time or >> Yeah, look um I my belief to get there
01:10:36
was really strong. Um, I guess when you're looking across the paddock at that lineup, you know, you you look at
01:10:43
that lineup which you've been watching for years, you know, the Maninggas and
01:10:46
>> the Curries, the the the Langers, the, you know, Wally Lewis, Mark Wally, and
01:10:52
and Mel a number of times in there. Um, I think I think what I I got to learn was that we we really didn't give
01:11:00
ourselves enough of a a chance. Um, we were sort of beaten before we got onto the pitch most of the time because
01:11:07
because our country would write us off as underdogs, you know. >> Um, and I always thought that, you know,
01:11:13
the if if I always thought we were tougher than them, but they were more skillful skillful than us and and they
01:11:20
threw caution to the wind where we were not as as as built like that to do things because of
01:11:26
the competitions and that that they had. So, um, I was had I had no problem running around out there, you know, I'd
01:11:32
been in that that performance grade for so long that I couldn't wait to get there. Um, but it's sort of when you
01:11:40
finish, it's like when you finish, you you ask yourself the question, could I
01:11:44
have done anything >> better or done anything else? And and that's a really hard question to answer,
01:11:49
Dom, because you know, like it's a team sport and you get so many situations
01:11:55
during a game where you've got to take your chances and you know, if it isn't
01:12:00
for a slip of the pass or a knock on or or you're or someone doesn't see you,
01:12:06
the opportunities pass you so quickly and and I've watched a couple of those
01:12:09
games, you know, with the with the advent of the the internet now where you can go back and look at some of those
01:12:14
games and in my head I go, "Oh [ __ ] that's right. if we could have just
01:12:16
passed that ball, it would have been different, you know, but um I enjoyed it. I, you know, every every minute of
01:12:24
wearing that black jersey um and I've been a big advocate for that. you would
01:12:29
have heard me talk about bleeding black and >> you know I think I think what Benji
01:12:33
Marshall did when he came out of the Australian school boys to choose New Zealand I think just recently with Kalum
01:12:38
Pong coming um >> and saying that he wants to represent his country I think they'll the iconic
01:12:43
statements which this country needs you know >> um and origin will always be origin you
01:12:49
know our country's always supported origin but you know that black jersey we
01:12:54
got to be careful that we preserve it because it's pretty special >> throughout your playing career what was
01:12:58
the most lucrative contract you ever had? >> Ooh. Oh, Super League. Super League. So,
01:13:06
and I was lucky, you know, like I I played I played up in Newcastle and then I I headed up to the UK. I actually I
01:13:13
played a test series and I fell out with a coach um with with no doing of my own.
01:13:18
But I got back from a test series and one of the players was out of form. And when I went back into the change room to
01:13:28
read the team sheet, I was in second grade >> and I and the coach had pulled me out
01:13:32
and I'm going, "Why am I on second grade? I've just played test series."
01:13:36
You know what I mean? And he said, "Oh, my contract was up and he said, "Oh,
01:13:41
you're going to have to play loose for next year, compete against Mark Glennville. Um, you I'm putting this guy
01:13:46
in the centers this week and and you're playing second grade." And I said, "What
01:13:51
do you mean? Like I've just finished playing the test series." and he said,
01:13:54
"No, that's what I want to do." And I I didn't even train. I just jumped in my
01:13:58
car, went home. You know, I wanted to hit him. I was that annoyed. I got in got in my car, went home, and Tarw had
01:14:05
spoken to me about going to England and playing for Castford. And so I phoned T up and I said, "Hey, T, I'm coming,
01:14:09
man." >> You know, and that's how I ended up in England. And I went to England. I played
01:14:13
in. So I played in the Super League war when Super League ARIRL won. I ended up in the Super League contracts. Um,
01:14:20
and I ended up at Leads with Posty and and Douggee Lorton, who Posty may have spoken about, um, great bloke Dougie,
01:14:28
you know, you couldn't understand it, but he knew money. And he basically just said to me, "What
01:14:33
do you want?" And, and I said to him, "This is what I want." And, um, I I I
01:14:39
was probably the second highest paid player at Leads at the time. and and they talked about having this contract
01:14:45
locked up in the in the um as safe at Leads and everyone thought it was Tar um but only me and Douggee knew it was me
01:14:53
and I ended up going to Leads and and I actually re renegotiated that contract with Dean Bell cuz Dean Bell came to
01:14:58
Leads the following year. Douggee lost the job and Dean Bell got it and I went back to the Crushes and the ARIRL were
01:15:04
trying to get me to reag on my Super League contract to stay in the ARIRL um competition, which I'm glad I didn't cuz
01:15:10
the Crushes folded two years later and Dean Bell said, "Oh, I want you to come
01:15:15
back to lead." So, I ended up going back and I re renegotiated it again um with
01:15:20
the new owner and and that's a funny story. He walks in, Gary Heatherington at the time with Paul Katak and he says,
01:15:26
"Hey boys, the very first time they did this in England, um, we're going to have
01:15:30
a top 25 and we're sitting around the me and Kev, like we've been around for
01:15:36
ages, so we knew sort of what was going on." And as soon as he said top 25, I
01:15:40
knew what he was thinking. He knew what I was thinking. And um, he then goes, "Okay, but you're going to come and tell
01:15:47
me where you think you sit in the top 25." Well, Iro beat me to his office, so
01:15:54
I had to sit outside the office in the line. I was next to going after Iro and um sit down. Iro comes out. He's y
01:16:03
giving me the high five. I'm going wanker and he and go sit down and Gary goes, "Right, Tony, where do you think
01:16:11
you're sitting?" I said, "Well, I was sitting number one, but now I'm number
01:16:13
two." And he just started laughing. He just started laughing. He said, "Yep. Okay,
01:16:19
this what we're going to do. Rap. we're going to bundle it all up. And I said,
01:16:21
"Yeah, I'm happy with that." Um, yeah. And and it was it was, you know, back
01:16:26
then I decided to, you know, the 95 World Cup to that was my last test series. Um because at 26, you know, I I
01:16:36
just had a a young girl and I thought, well, you know, international football doesn't pay you a lot of money and it
01:16:42
and it does when you go on those tours and that it does take it out of you and you can your form can dip at club and I
01:16:48
just, you know, putting logic together thought, well, I if I get four or five good years out of my contract, I'll just
01:16:54
earn money so I can set myself up for later after 40. >> Yeah. >> Smart decision in hindsight.
01:17:00
>> Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. And and and to be honest, Dom, I I you know, five or six
01:17:05
years in the Kiwis, I was probably done to, >> you know, I'd um I played a lot of
01:17:10
international footy since the age of 15. And you know it's I wanted to I wanted
01:17:15
to enjoy my footy and and when I went to cast and and although I had the injuries
01:17:20
at Leads and the and I used to love playing up in England it was you know there's there was no media looking at
01:17:25
you cuz it's all football and the media up there and you could just go out there
01:17:28
and enjoy yourself and um I found it really hard to leave England >> you know. So when we decided to to
01:17:37
finally pull up stumps and and came back come back to New Zealand um I had had such a good time there because I went up
01:17:43
to Doncaster when I was 17 and I you know they they had a program they called another bloody Sunday where they hadn't
01:17:48
won a game and I'd sent them a letter and they took me on. We ended up finishing the top four. Um so I can
01:17:54
still go to Doncaster now and people are still talking about those days and wow >> I took a mate up there Carl Hall who's
01:18:00
from Aland and and he now owns a club. Um never come home. He's been up there
01:18:04
for 30 odd years. Um, so you know, England's got a you know, there's a couple of places, a couple of people up
01:18:10
there. Pretty special place in my heart up there. >> You you got into coaching real early.
01:18:14
You started coaching while you were still playing. Well, I was because, you know, I was I was a 5'8, so I was always
01:18:21
delivering coaching messages or and talking to the coaches about strategies and all that. Anyway, um so it was just
01:18:27
a it was a natural progression and and funny story like when I was at Leads I I snapped my arm a few times and Gary
01:18:34
Heatherington got me into the room and said, "Oh, look, we want some of the
01:18:36
money back." And I said to him, "Well, that ain't going to happen. Not my
01:18:40
fault. I got broken arm. I broke it playing for you." Um and I said to him,
01:18:45
"But I'll tell you what I will do is I'll coach your A team, which is the
01:18:48
like New South Wales Cup." Um and in that side was Kevin Sinfield, Gareth Ellis, um Adrien Moley, you know, some
01:18:55
really good kids and we ended up winning the comp. >> So that was my foray into coaching and
01:19:00
then the conversation about the the colored guys and all that and then I ended up at Wakefield as a player coach
01:19:07
and that's how I got on my my coaching journey. Um, so I play a coach at Wakefield. Then I came home and I was I
01:19:14
was on my way back down here when Posty called me and said, "Oh, mate, have you
01:19:18
thought about coaching the Warriors?" And I said, "I'm probably going to head
01:19:22
back to Newcastle cuz I had a property over there." And um he said, "Oh, Ridgie
01:19:27
and them are setting up a club down here, man. You maybe talk to Ridgie." And I said, "Oh, yeah, okay then." So
01:19:30
ended up having a conversation with Ridgie and really quickly I came in for interview with Ridgie and Mick Watson at
01:19:37
the time. Um, and they only had four people hired at that stage was Patty, the front office lady, Ando, Daniel
01:19:45
Anderson, Mick, and Ridgie. So, there were the four people at the club. And I was I was I don't Well, Richie wasn't
01:19:52
hired. He was he was an owner. Um, and I walked in and we had a, you know, Ridgie, good bugger, you know, been
01:19:59
great mates for a while. >> Um, didn't put any any acid on. said, "You're just going to have to convince
01:20:05
Ando, you know, like and and I, you know, I walked in there, told him what I thought." Um, yeah. And the rest is
01:20:11
history. >> You were, you were 34 when you became coach of the Warriors. Assistant coach
01:20:16
or head coach? >> Uh, 34 when I became head coach. So, I was one of the youngest NRL coaches. And
01:20:24
>> it's wild, eh? >> They Yeah. And look, I' I've spoken to a
01:20:27
few of the players, you know, like back in those days that they obviously at the
01:20:31
back end of their careers were going, "Fuck, you know, Kempy was a stage when
01:20:33
he was coaching the Warriors, you know, and and it was sort of a really tough one for me, Dom, you know, like we had
01:20:38
all that success earlier on, went to a grand final, just missed the the second one with beat beaten by Penri and then
01:20:44
in 2004 had that bad run and Ando resigned and I took over." Um, but I you know, if if I always say, you know, what
01:20:51
would you have done differently? Well, I wouldn't have taken it, >> but I didn't have the advice at the time
01:20:55
to sort of take a back seat, stay in your assistant role, keep developing yourself as a coach.
01:21:02
>> Um, and I was caught between, well, I may may never get this chance again. Um,
01:21:08
so take it type thing. And in hindsight, I probably shouldn't have taken it. You
01:21:12
know, >> hindsight's a wonderful thing though, isn't it? >> But it is for a lot of things. You I can
01:21:16
tell you hindsight around a thousand different stories. But m like I said, you know, when I've seen so many people,
01:21:22
I'll never forget the interview I gave when I lost the job. Um I'd often
01:21:27
thought about exit strategies and I've seen so many people handed them poorly.
01:21:31
And you know, one of the things I was never ever going to allow um myself to do was to bag the game of rugby league
01:21:39
because >> if you think about the story and what I've been talking to you about where I
01:21:43
came from, it was rugby league that was a catalyst to big change in my life. Um,
01:21:48
and if I was to sit there at 14 and say, "Guess what? I'm going to be one of the
01:21:53
one of the youngest coaches to ever coach a professional team in New Zealand called the Warriors," you'd be you'd be
01:21:58
throwing stones at me down at the Watcher Bar. You know what I mean? >> Um, so I was never ever going to take
01:22:03
that away. And and I I thank the sport even even, you know, sitting here with you. You know, it's generally because
01:22:09
I'm a I've had a career in in rugby league, you know, like rugby league's
01:22:13
given me um enormous opportunity throughout my career. So the the warrior stuff, it's a long
01:22:18
way in the rear view now. Like 20 20 21 years, 22 years. Um God, where does the time go? Eh,
01:22:24
>> it flies. >> It's crazy. Um chat GPT AI describes your time at the Warriors as turbulent
01:22:30
and controversial. >> Is that fair? >> Well, it was, you know, like you got to
01:22:35
think, you got to think about, you know, Ando was only 35, >> you know, so and and we didn't have 14
01:22:41
different coaches, you know. There was me, Ando, a trainer, and a manager. So that was running the team, you know, and
01:22:48
and we had some success there. We had more success than we had failures. Um, but it was turbulent on those back end
01:22:54
of the years because what happened to Ando, I had to pick up and and run with a team for the rest of the year that
01:22:59
wasn't fit >> and and get them to the back end of the year and then we had to try and rebuild
01:23:03
it to get it through the next year. And if you follow the schools, we missed it by a whisker.
01:23:08
>> Yeah, there was so many close games. >> So many close games. Was it was there
01:23:10
like a like a lack of fitness in the team in the in the final quarter of the game or
01:23:14
>> No, 2004 was 2005. It's you know we just we missed a couple of decisions and you
01:23:20
know we could have wrapped up games and stuff like that but we were rebuilding. >> Um and I always knew that I was having
01:23:29
to battle to hold my position. So if I didn't make the eight I was probably going to be punted, you know.
01:23:36
I, you know, you know, Ivan, Ivan and Campo were my assistant coaches then. Um, you know, their journey was
01:23:44
starting. They brought in John Hart. I I'd never forgive John Hart for the way
01:23:48
that he treated me. Um, you know, he used to whine and dine me up at his house with breakfastes and all that and
01:23:53
talk about [ __ ] and blow wind up my ass and then he sacks me. Um, and I never forgive him because, you know, like I I
01:24:00
see I'm a Kiwi, you know, and and I thought that in those first four or five years, if you're looking for a
01:24:08
young coach that actually had more success through that time with Daniel than adversity to bring the team back.
01:24:15
Um, and me and Ivan were starting to do that, that they they may have given me a
01:24:19
longer longer tenure to do that and sort of grow alongside Ivan again. Um but he
01:24:25
was he was in in my books just total dickheaded about the whole thing. >> Who's that? Harty.
01:24:31
>> John Hart. Yeah. So >> still still there now? >> Yeah. It's still like
01:24:36
>> seen him since >> I would I would No, I don't want to see him, you know, like I would never do
01:24:41
that, you know. This that's the type of person I am. It's black and white. Um,
01:24:45
you know, it's it it's sort of the way that the way that he sort of, you know,
01:24:51
was grooming Ivan for the position >> was, you know, and and I've never spoken
01:24:57
about this before. Um, >> you know, it was really hard to take, you know, cuz I put my put my life into
01:25:03
that club for for so many years. So, >> um, but again, they they say that there's only two types of coaches, you
01:25:11
know what I mean? >> Those that have been Yeah. I Brad Thornton I had him on the podcast a
01:25:15
couple of weeks ago and he told me this I hadn't heard it before. Uh you've been
01:25:18
sacked or you're about to be sacked. >> Yeah. >> So and I and I was you know the reality
01:25:23
was that you know I was again you know going to be moved on. >> Um the thing that the thing I I remember
01:25:31
sitting up in Riiera you know he Hardy had a place up there and he told me oh man you you know we're going to go with
01:25:37
Ivan you know we're going to have a media interview this afternoon and everyone knew before me. That's the
01:25:43
other thing that got me. You know, everyone knew before I did. Um and I remember sitting up there and I was
01:25:49
having a cry in the car, you know, and you know, [ __ ] it's my coaching career
01:25:52
is over and um I just thought I just thought, man, like and and really quickly I talked to I talked to my mate.
01:26:01
I gave Bruce a call and I talked to him and um he was saying, you know, get your
01:26:05
thoughts together and and and come back, you know, let's let's really handle this
01:26:09
handle this right. Um, and by the time I journeyed from there back to the club, I
01:26:14
was on a high again because I was just went through my career, you know, and I just thought about the things that I had
01:26:21
done and had been able to achieve, you know, um, being Polynesian too, being MAI and that those type of key
01:26:27
positions. Half the stories I don't tell the boys, you know, cuz they wouldn't
01:26:30
believe me. >> Um, but yeah, and I just thought, man, you're 35, you know, like you've you've
01:26:37
had a hell of a run. Um, and I think the way that that exit strategy worked for me by handling it correctly has sort of
01:26:45
driven things that have since been really good for me. You know, like I've I've, you know, I got I got a numerous
01:26:51
phone calls from businesses that wanted to to to hire me. There's so many correlations between sport and business
01:26:57
these days. you know, I've ended up managing um businesses for people um and
01:27:02
just using team building and and building great teams and and getting cultures right and stuff like that. Um
01:27:10
and part of me when I look back on it now at that age, I was just a kid, >> you know, like like the Tony Kemp today
01:27:17
would be handling it totally different to to to what that kid handled it. Um but when you say would you do it again
01:27:24
mate you have a look at that team that we coached >> like Clinton Tupi arguably the best
01:27:30
center at the time in the world the two wingers Francis and and Henry Campo is on the phone to me every day you know
01:27:36
what I mean he's he's actually over here this week must want to catch up for a
01:27:38
beer but I'm heading to Aussie on Thursday >> Kevin Campion >> he's absolute legend mate you know um
01:27:44
but you just have a look at the the caliber Donk the manager you know he he's on the phone to me Ando I called I
01:27:50
called Ando up so Ando Ando's had that accident, you know. >> Yeah. So Daniel Yeah. Daniel Anderson.
01:27:56
Um Yeah. I think this was uh New Year's Eve 2022 accident. >> Yeah. I got a phone call, you know. And
01:28:01
he'd actually died and they brought him back to life on the beach. And so I'm
01:28:05
like, man, I got to go and see him. So me and my partner headed over to Sydney and I'm I'm like, he's in a he's in a
01:28:12
wheelchair. He can't quleic. He he can move. He can move okay now. Um, but when
01:28:18
I went to see him, so I caught a taxi out to the hospital and of course we were young, so we never
01:28:26
really handled our goodbyes that well. Like he said, "Roll with the punches."
01:28:29
That's all he said to me when he left left the club. So, you know, he's gone
01:28:33
from working really close to me as an assistant coach, head coach, and then all of a sudden just left me in the
01:28:39
lurch, you know what I mean? And said to me, "Roll with punches." And I didn't
01:28:42
really forgive him for that, you know, cuz I picked up the picked up the mental and had to run with it. and coped all
01:28:47
the [ __ ] that went went beside it as well. And so we had really spoken to each other and I so I went he I heard
01:28:53
the accident I went to Sydney I said I got to go and see him. So I called, jumped in the cab, went out the hospital
01:28:57
and I phoned him and I said, "Oh, what are you doing?" You know, "Hey, man. How
01:29:01
you going?" I said, "Oh, just thinking about visiting you." He goes, "Oh yeah,
01:29:04
just give me some warning." And and um yep, you know, that should be fine. And
01:29:08
I said, "Okay, here's your warning. I'm in the car park." He's gone, "Oh shit." Okay. So he's
01:29:16
rolled out, mate. I said, "I'll wait for you in the up at the cafe." So he's
01:29:18
rolled up the cafe half an hour later. Um Oh yeah, mate. We we pissed our pants for a good hour and a half just we we
01:29:27
were say what we were saying to each other was mate we were so [ __ ] young we like that you know making all these
01:29:33
really big decisions on football teams and strategies and stuff like that and we ended up you know bu building a
01:29:40
bridge and laughing and I spilled coffee over him cuz I had to drink it. I should
01:29:44
have [ __ ] thrown it all over him to be honest. But um yeah, we just had a we had a really good catch up and and you
01:29:50
know that they were for me some of the some of the best times of my football career. You know, getting to the grand
01:29:56
final >> um for the first time with the Warriors. Um just unlucky to lose it. You know, we
01:30:02
were right in that game >> for a long period of time. Um >> yeah, let's let's Yeah. So 2002 grand
01:30:08
final um against the Roosters, 80,000 people in Sydney. M >> um yeah. What's that dressing room like
01:30:14
after the game? >> Ah, it's a morg. You know, there's there's there's no difference between
01:30:19
winning and losing, Dom. I don't care what people tell you. You know, you you
01:30:23
win, mate. Your heroes, you know, everything tastes better and you looks better and feels better. And when you
01:30:29
lose, mate, you know, you're sore and you you want to get home. You want to,
01:30:33
you know, get some feedback and get on and, >> you know, like like they say, you know,
01:30:37
you had seven days to correct it. Well, you didn't have you had to wait a whole
01:30:40
year to get get to the next one. So, um, >> but falling over at the last hurdle,
01:30:44
there's no shame in that, right? >> No. Well, if you if you see if you think
01:30:50
about it in in a nutshell, the following the year before, they they didn't have a team.
01:30:56
So, they basically gone under >> and they were ressigning players and trying to build a team. Like, like I
01:31:01
said, when I got hired, I was the fourth person hired in the in the organization.
01:31:05
We didn't even have any footballs. So, to take him to the grand final the following. So we made the eight that
01:31:10
year if you remember got beaten by Paramea in the first game. Parameda get beaten by Newcastle in the final. The
01:31:16
second year we get to the grand final and we should have won it. You know what I mean? The following year we get beaten
01:31:21
by Penri um and that that what I thought was a great great major semi, you know.
01:31:27
Um so we sort of had that period there with those players that just built that belief and and coached them to believe
01:31:37
that they could play football. And I just think if they could have kept that team together in 2004, you know, Ando
01:31:43
made a decision to go big, we shouldn't have gone, you know, I fought, you know,
01:31:47
and people don't know this story either. You know, I fought with a scientist to
01:31:51
say, you know, you need to go to Ando and tell them, mate, we we're big enough. Kiwis are big enough. We need to
01:31:55
be fit. >> But there were rule changes and teams that were were coming up bigger and and
01:31:59
getting bigger. And, you know, the head coach um strategy was let's get bigger.
01:32:04
But what happened was they didn't train. So they got big and they got sloppy and
01:32:08
they weren't fit >> and we got caught out in 2004. So um in saying that the the years that we had
01:32:16
together um mate was some of the best years some of the best years of my football career.
01:32:22
I'm pleased to hear that story about you and Daniel Anderson c c c c c c c c c c
01:32:25
c c c c c c c c c c c catching up because um knowing you were coming in I I I've got Stacy Jones book on my shelf
01:32:30
and this came out in 2004 2005 um and I thought I wonder if um I wonder if um Kempe gets a mention in here and there's
01:32:36
a whole chapter called Kempy and there's there's a part in there where he talks
01:32:40
about when Daniel Anderson was coaching and you were assistant coach and apparently you guys weren't even even
01:32:45
talking for a time there. >> Yeah. Look like there's >> how did things get so bad? Oh, look.
01:32:51
There's Yeah, it's a it's a it's a tough one, you know, like me and him. So, we're
01:32:56
we're basically the same age except I came from a professional football career
01:33:00
and Daniel came from coaching through the ranks to get to where he was. And he's a fantastic coach. You know, some
01:33:06
of the strategies and conversations around coaching are great. you know, like I said, you know, I'm I'm
01:33:13
not one to not say things as they are, you know, like um and there I think there was a time where he had put all
01:33:24
his eggs in the one basket and we were on our our journey in 2003. Um but my sister-in-law died and and I really
01:33:33
loved her, you know, like she was >> she's a beautiful person. She got um
01:33:37
stomach cancer. She went through a bad journey and and when they beat Canterbury, Francis scored those five
01:33:42
tries that night was the week she died and I went home and I said, "Well, I'm
01:33:44
not coming back, mate, until I deal with this." And I couldn't believe it, but
01:33:49
things changed. You know, Rowan Smith, who was Brian Smith, Daniel's mentor's
01:33:53
son, came into the he was a bit of a [ __ ] you know, to be honest, the way that he was carrying on. And I came
01:33:59
back and the players could see that there had been a shift in the dynamic between me and Ando. Um, and it sort of
01:34:06
didn't repair itself from that moment on and and unfortunately, you know, that's
01:34:10
why I went to the scientists in the offseason to say, you know, don't go big, you know, like you got to you got
01:34:16
to push really hard here to get the boys fit because I couldn't talk to Endo. You
01:34:19
know, that sort of com that conversation had broken down. Um, and the other thing
01:34:24
with that too is that me and him had a really good it didn't really affect the
01:34:28
the way that we spoke to players because we had a good cop bad cop relationship with the players as well, you know, like
01:34:35
Ando was really aggressive in the way that he spoke to players, you know, and he and he I've I've never said this, but
01:34:42
I've stopped two players from from hitting him, you know. I'm you come into
01:34:46
the train, said, "You can't do that, man. I'm gonna have to pick a side. had
01:34:49
to protect Ando, you know, like cuz I'm from the old playing group. Um, but they
01:34:54
would get he would get them that wound up that they would they would want to, you know, start throwing punches and
01:34:59
>> um but that good cop bad cop scenario, there's so many times where he'd he'd
01:35:04
try to motivate them through verbal um attacks that I would have to go and build them back up with a with a
01:35:13
shoulder that they could lean on and don't forget about how good you are and
01:35:17
so forth. So, and it worked really well. It it it did work really well. >> Um, and I just think at the end of the
01:35:23
day, the the coupled with us being big and unfit was that the players had had enough like they had been enough talk to
01:35:31
like kids, you know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> Um, and that that's just an that again
01:35:35
that's a tenure thing, isn't it? When you're with a with coaches, but I see
01:35:39
and I'd been through that with coaches too is you know sometimes you just you're done like
01:35:44
>> there's a saying you lose the dressing room. >> You lose that. That's when they say you
01:35:47
lose a dressing room. Well, mate, >> coaches do lose a dressing room, you know, and and I've been in international
01:35:52
teams where the coach has lost a dressing room and I've been a club teams as a player and a coach where and and
01:35:58
that's what was starting to happen. So, um I've never read the chapter in
01:36:01
Stacy's book. Um >> yeah, it's called come in Kempy. >> Yeah. Yeah.
01:36:05
>> I got a couple of other bits about that to bring up. >> Yeah. Every everyone's got their you
01:36:08
know, everyone's got their say, but it's you know, again, >> he speaks very highly of you by the way.
01:36:14
Well, Stacy, look, I look I'm Stacy Jones's biggest advocate. You know, Ando,
01:36:20
>> I think I asked Stace to come back when I coached the Warriors as a head coach.
01:36:24
He was one guy I chased, you know, and told him, "Come home. You need to go out
01:36:27
on your terms." >> Um, I think he's iconically the the biggest player to ever play for the
01:36:33
Warriors and if not New Zealand. >> Um, and I pushed really hard for him to
01:36:37
get that Kiwi coaches job, you know what I mean? So, >> it's a it's a it's an interesting one
01:36:43
when you hear stories from players in and around their story of what happened, but I can take half of those stories and
01:36:51
say, "Well, actually, that's not what really happened, you know, because I'm
01:36:55
behind closed doors in a different conversation." Um but yeah, one thing one thing Stacy does um say uh just
01:37:03
before you lost your job at the Warriors, which he talked about before, he said there's an end ofear review and
01:37:08
um he when he had his interview, he noticed there were lots of questions like based around you and he just had a
01:37:13
was sort of woring over in his mind like is this a stitch up like you know are they trying to stitch the coach up?
01:37:18
>> Yeah. And look again like Tony now knows that you know like there's
01:37:24
>> the the way that the way that you know CEOs work at clubs is they're going to
01:37:28
throw the coach under the bus before the CEO gets looked at. >> You know I always knew
01:37:33
>> um that that was going to be an issue for me. You know like Mick when he was
01:37:38
there and and I had to hold try and hold my spot and it wasn't I got to say 2004
01:37:43
2005 wasn't a very good working environment. you know, when all I wanted to do was win NRL games, you sort of
01:37:50
didn't have that um backup, you know, which you which you're probably seeing
01:37:54
at the moment. They got really well off the field now and now the team's starting to perform. Um you know,
01:37:59
there's so many different pieces to the puzzle that have to come together. Um
01:38:04
and and and it and it was tough, but again, I'm I'm never ever going to regret it. You know, I gave it I gave my
01:38:10
best. Um, you know, there's, like I said about Hardies, there's parts of it that
01:38:14
I I thought could have been handled better. Um, but, you know, tell me how many other BS in New Zealand have had a
01:38:20
chance to coach Warriors. >> Yeah. The most pleasing part for me is the the bit about you and Daniel
01:38:26
Anderson still being in in contact. When when a surfing accident like that happens and someone's confined to a
01:38:31
chair, suddenly it it gives you a bit of perspective, eh? It's just [ __ ] sport. It is. Well, and and that's
01:38:36
that's the other thing, you know, like um the water off a duck's back type type
01:38:41
scenario, >> you know, they Ando came over. So So funny story, Ando came over in October.
01:38:47
So him and our manager Paul came over who was a manager of our Daniel's best
01:38:51
mate was a manager. >> He's still in a chair. >> He's still Yeah, he's still in need,
01:38:55
>> but he's got some assistant. Yes. Yes. Um >> but they came over so he was fine. Um
01:39:01
and we sort of built started building the bridge and I took him out at Ponyby up here to hoppers and had a few beers
01:39:06
and a laugh and crack up and he'd been invited back and you know he was saying
01:39:10
may not be invited back but no one's contacted me and I was well stay with me
01:39:14
man let's let's have a few beers and have a catch up >> and then I get a phone call a couple of
01:39:18
months later from Paul and said oh man some bad news I was in shock I was like yeah they brought Daniel back he died on
01:39:23
the beach and um you I was like I got to get over there and see him you know like
01:39:28
you know whatever's happened between me and Um, I'm just going to get over there and
01:39:32
say, "Hey, man." Like, you know, [ __ ] it's only it's only footy bygones.
01:39:36
>> You're decent guy. So, um, yeah, it's it's it's funny, Dom, I think, you know,
01:39:45
there's a lot of that stuff happening as I get older, you know, like people that
01:39:50
I, you know, if I get a chance to say thank you to them for what they did for me. Um, I'll I will do that, you know,
01:39:58
especially, >> you know, people that have had a significant part to play in my journey.
01:40:04
Um cuz cuz even even at 58 there's still a lot for me to learn, you know. Um and
01:40:11
I'm always looking for the next thing to do, you know. I I think that's just you
01:40:16
know I'm a what do they call it? Like a um uh a active relaxer. >> Um so I've got to be I've got to be
01:40:25
doing something and >> you know if it's to do with sport and I said this I said this to my mate the
01:40:29
other day, you know, look I've got so much that I still think I can offer sport. um just got turned down this
01:40:34
morning for the St. Helen CEO role, you know, so um I was shortlisted for that and and I'm still looking at the next
01:40:41
thing that I can do in sport. So, you know, I'm I'm just not going to I'm just
01:40:45
going to roll over and and get out of the get out of the game that's given me
01:40:48
so much. I still think I got more to give to it. >> Yeah, 100% you do. Um just a couple more
01:40:53
on that Warriors thing. So, yeah, in your last year there, Ivan Ivan Clearary was your assistant coach. He's gone on
01:40:58
to be like like one of the one of the great coaches. Um, yeah. How was he at the time? Could could you could you see
01:41:04
in him that he was going to go on to do great things? >> I didn't really to be to be brutally
01:41:09
honest at the time I didn't really give it a hell of a lot of thought. um because I was battling just my own
01:41:15
position at the time, you know, but I had Campo and Ivan, you know, we'd spoke
01:41:20
about getting some good coaches back um to sort of help me out, you know, and then and and then, you know, we talked
01:41:25
about what sort of players that we wanted when Ruben and Pricey came into the side and we're sort of rebuilding at
01:41:31
the time. And Ivan Ivan's very very methodical, you know what I mean? like he he's he's thoughtful and and
01:41:39
not very reactive, whereas I'm a little bit, you know, I'm going to go straight,
01:41:43
you know, straight away and and wear my heart on the sleeve type thing. So, um to see what Ivan's done through his
01:41:50
career and you know, he's he's done fantastic [ __ ] fantastic, man. But
01:41:56
you you look at the sides and you and you go a lot of that um that style was actually through his time of the
01:42:04
Warriors, you know, right from the beginning. Like when you look at Kick out on the left edge and the centers and
01:42:09
the and the big wingers and you know how he's got his side playing and the percentages and bits and pieces like
01:42:15
that. Um a lot of the grounding personally I think has come out of his time at the Warriors. And the other big
01:42:21
part of that too is understanding the Polynesian mix. you know, spending all that time here as a player um in amongst
01:42:28
the core group of guys with the Alley's and the Clintons and and the likes and
01:42:32
getting to know how they operate to go back to Penri where it's a high high Polynesian content player,
01:42:38
>> it's just been a a perfect fit for him. So, um having the best half back in the
01:42:43
competition too as a son is is always a bonus. Uh but yeah, no look, it's it's
01:42:48
great to look and and and have some small part to play, you know, like that your coaching career, you know, was part
01:42:54
of our coaching career and >> and you've gone on to to win so many so many finals. So, you know, that's that's
01:43:00
coaching dreams. You know, >> a lot of people listening to this or watching this podcast will have a a
01:43:06
situation in their life where they get fired from a job. Um but very few will will have it done so publicly and so so
01:43:13
brutally. What's what's that like? It's an experience that none of us will ever
01:43:18
go go through. That must be >> Yeah, it's it it's tough. It is tough,
01:43:21
you know, like it's, you know, I think from there's tears. There's there's tears and
01:43:28
there's, you know, the checking in with yourself. Are you good enough? You know,
01:43:34
it's a little bit of imposter syndrome that that that is on the back of it. Um,
01:43:40
>> I must shake your confidence, eh? Yeah, it's it it's time to reflect, you know,
01:43:46
especially when you got, you know, again, when I when that happened to me, I was 35, you know, so
01:43:53
>> when you when you when you come to this stage, it's not so difficult, you know,
01:43:58
cuz you've you've got a bit more of a mature head on your shoulders and you
01:44:01
can reason with right and wrong um quite easily. But when you're taken apart like
01:44:06
that um in front of a camera and and people have been banging for your blood all season anyway uh it's a bit it's a
01:44:13
bit of sweet ending to you know [ __ ] thank god I'm out of it and then but I
01:44:17
didn't want to get out of it like that type thing you know so um but don't
01:44:21
they'll be lying to you if they said it wasn't tough you know to deal with it
01:44:25
and >> and the more you deal with it and the more times it happens is why those
01:44:29
coaches that keep going on the merry go round and they've got quite good at you
01:44:33
know picking up checks and going to pick up another job. Um, but you know, for me, I I guess that once that door
01:44:41
closes, there's always another one that opens. And >> um, I went from coaching the Warriors in
01:44:48
a professional environment. I got a phone call from Walder Little. Um, who said, "Why don't you come and co help me
01:44:53
coach at Glenfield?" And we took Glenfield to the final of the Northshore the following year. First training
01:44:57
session, I showed up with my gum boots and a rain jacket. You know, I had no no clipboard. I didn't have to worry about
01:45:02
the players. I ended up getting home at like 2:00 in the morning cuz we went to the pub up the road and got tanked up.
01:45:07
Um, and it was, you know, I've never said this to Walder, but it was just what I needed was a was a real dose of
01:45:14
reality. Um, >> but you know, here's a guy that could see it and said, "Bro, just come and
01:45:20
come and hang out with me. We'll just hang around for the season. You've got
01:45:23
stuff to give." >> So, you know, I just got his boys fit. That's all I did. And let's have some
01:45:28
fun for the year. and and um it's a bit it's a bit easier when you got no
01:45:34
cameras. I remember I remember the psychologist going on TV one or something like this saying, "I've got an
01:45:40
eye condition. I'm I often got to have shades on. I can't see properly in the
01:45:44
in the glare." They in Newcastle they try to get me to wear purple contacts.
01:45:50
So, I've always had shades on no matter what. I've always got shades on, you
01:45:53
know. And um I remember the psychologist coming on just before I got sacked and goes, "He's hiding something."
01:46:01
I was like, "No [ __ ] shit." Yeah, you've been through what I've been
01:46:04
through. I'm [ __ ] hiding plenty. Don't worry about that. You know what I
01:46:07
mean? But I'm just sitting there going, "Oh my god, they've got this lady
01:46:12
talking about I'm hiding something when I'm [ __ ] my jobs. It's me job I'm
01:46:17
trying to [ __ ] keep, >> you know." Um but yeah, it's a it's it
01:46:22
it's when you've got that glaring light on you, you know, it's really it's
01:46:28
really people are bullshitting to you and they say it doesn't affect me. >> It does, but it's not the effect, it's
01:46:34
the response, >> you know. So if it takes you a week, if it takes you a month, if it takes you a
01:46:40
year, how do you respond to that? And I've always been the one where I've
01:46:45
gone, what's next? you know what is what is it? So, you know, at the moment I'm between roles.
01:46:52
Um I was looking at buying a business. It didn't work out. So, now I'm looking
01:46:56
at what what's next. You know, it could be driving a truck. It could be helping
01:47:00
another business out. It could be working with um you know um people that are in a little bit of trouble or
01:47:08
whatever. >> But I'm sort of sitting over here going, I'm not worried about that now.
01:47:13
>> I'm worried about what's coming next. >> Yeah. you you find out who your friends are
01:47:18
when you go through. >> Well, I don't have many friends. >> Yeah.
01:47:20
>> You know, like I and I'll tell this to a lot of people. You count your friends on
01:47:24
both hands. >> If you're lucky, you can count them on both. And >> you know, friends are I've got a lot of
01:47:30
acquaintances. You know, but friends, like a fine friend for me, >> you know, a friend is someone who's
01:47:39
going to cry with you, who's going to love with you, who's going to, you know,
01:47:43
work through things with you, who's going to be there from day one. >> Yeah. Lean in when everyone else leans
01:47:47
out. >> 100%. 100%. >> Yeah. My my circle is so tight, eh? >> Yeah.
01:47:52
>> Super super small. >> I can count on every every one of them. >> That's exactly right. And you know,
01:47:58
again, I heard another saying, you know, like a um a silent man is a is a man who's happy
01:48:05
with himself. >> You know what I mean? So, you don't have to have a circle of friends around you
01:48:10
patting you on the back all the time. >> I don't want that. I don't I don't want
01:48:14
pats on the back, you know? I want to I want a mate that phones me up and says, "How's things?"
01:48:19
>> Me and my me and my mate will phone us each other up at least once a Fortnite
01:48:22
like just talk about how is how are you? Not like you know you're driving a flash
01:48:27
car or you got a big house or how many how many friends have you got type thing. It's like this is what you you
01:48:33
talk about. So um yeah acquaintances thousands >> you know but friends friends are yeah
01:48:41
friends are friends and family um you count on both hands. >> You've been you've been super open today
01:48:48
and um there's been some real moments of vulnerability. Have you always been good
01:48:52
at communicating like this or were you quite staunch as a young fella? Um well I got no people tell you you got tell
01:49:02
him to shut up cuz he's got no problem talking. Yeah. So I did I did a thing
01:49:06
with Stephie the other night and he said yes. He goes yes uncle. Okay. You got to
01:49:11
I know mate we're not I got to turn your mic off cuz you talk too much. Um >> you got to remember where I come from
01:49:17
you know like I wasn't allowed to talk you know. I wasn't allowed opinion. I I
01:49:20
I remember in Newcastle when I first went there and Mike the chairman and I stayed with him and his wife and his
01:49:26
four sons and and they're mad cricketers and they're watching the Aussie cricket
01:49:30
team play and if you if you know Aussie Aussies and Aussie cricket it's like all
01:49:34
blacks you know >> and they're arguing boys are arguing with their father about who's the better
01:49:39
bat batsman and who's the better bowler and all this sort of [ __ ] and I'm
01:49:42
getting worked up on the couch cuz I'm saying you don't [ __ ] talk to your
01:49:45
father like that you know what I mean and I'm thinking he's he's talking to
01:49:49
Um, and I got up and went to bed. So, I'd had I'd had enough of this discussion. And I didn't know it was a
01:49:56
discussion, did I? I thought these boys should never talk to their father like that out of respect.
01:50:00
>> Um, I'll get up for breakfast the next morning. And Mike comes to sits down. He
01:50:03
goes, "Can we just have a chat?" And I said, "Yeah." I said, "What?" He goes,
01:50:05
"What was that last night?" I said, "What do you mean?" He goes, "Why'd you
01:50:08
go to bed early?" I said, "Oh, in my household, mate, we're not allowed to
01:50:12
talk like that to our father." He said, "I wanted to I wanted to get up and
01:50:15
start swinging at the boys, you know." And he said, "Oh, that's called
01:50:19
discussion, mate." He said, "I encourage that." And again, there's another
01:50:24
picture, you know. So, my kids and my daughter, my daughter come to me. My daughter was a great sports person. I
01:50:32
thought she was going to play nipple for New Zealand. And she comes back and my partner said, "Um,
01:50:38
your daughter wants to chat with you." And I'm like, "Okay." And she comes and
01:50:43
she goes, "Right." And gives me this essay of why she's not playing net
01:50:47
anymore. and she all she wants to do is concentrate on education. She was headgill
01:50:51
college, you know, biggest school in New Zealand. >> And I went I made I had no come back to
01:50:57
say, "Shut up. You [ __ ] play nipple." And walked out of the house giggling to
01:51:01
myself going, "Oh my god." And then she comes out and she says, "Have you got
01:51:06
anything else to say, Dad? Cuz I've got more to finish." So, so when you're talking about when
01:51:17
you're talking about have you been have you been able to I I'm a hell of a lot
01:51:22
better Dom at expression. Um I think it's time, you know, >> you get old Yeah. When you get older,
01:51:29
you just um you learn what's important and what matters and what doesn't.
01:51:32
>> Yeah. And and to be honest, I don't give a [ __ ] mate. You know, like to to be to
01:51:36
be honest, like I don't care what people [ __ ] think, you know? I I know how
01:51:40
I've lived. Um I know there's things that I've done wrong and there's some
01:51:44
[ __ ] things that I've done right. >> Um and to be honest, I don't give two
01:51:48
hoots about what you [ __ ] think about me, >> you know? But there's there's two traits
01:51:53
and people always tell who know me is he will do what he says he will do. So what
01:51:58
he says he will do, he will do and you can [ __ ] trust him. And that's one of
01:52:02
my biggest my biggest um can be one of my biggest faults as well cuz I trust people too much.
01:52:08
>> You know, I've been burnt that many times by people like the like the John
01:52:13
Harts those type of situations where I Yeah, I trust I trust you, you know. Um, and as I've got older, you know, I've
01:52:21
I've I've just decided myself, well, mate, maybe just relax a little bit on
01:52:26
that side of things, you know, like cuz I can I can name half a dozen BS and gone, [ __ ] I I had your back,
01:52:33
>> you know, if you wanted if you I would be the B you take me to war with war
01:52:36
with you, >> but then when you in hindsight now and going, [ __ ] thank God didn't go to war
01:52:40
with you, mate. You would have shot me in the back. Um, yeah, I I I can't remember uh what
01:52:47
your statement was when you left the Warriors, but in in Stacy's book, he he
01:52:51
like applauds you for leaving with like dignity and grace and manner. >> Yeah, it's it's Oh, it's it's so great
01:52:57
to hear. Like, you made my day, mate. Like, I haven't read that. I'm [ __ ]
01:53:00
going to go and find it now and have a have a read of it. It wasn't it wasn't I couldn't say
01:53:07
anything about anybody or or I couldn't I couldn't throw rocks at this this this
01:53:16
um job that I had, you know, all these people cuz I love them all. I loved what I do and I'd loved it for so many years.
01:53:22
And that's what I when I left and made my closing statement, it was to say I
01:53:27
basically wanted to thank Rugby League. And I wasn't thanking the Warriors. I
01:53:32
was thanking my parents for driving me to the football games for all of my mates that helped me make those teams,
01:53:38
you know, that played and took [ __ ] from me all those years. >> Um, right through to my family having to
01:53:45
put up with a professional sportsman. Ain't [ __ ] easy, you know what I mean? Um, to all of my teammates
01:53:50
encouraging me to at the at the end, this is where I am with you guys and thanks a lot for giving me these
01:53:57
wonderful five years coaching the the Warriors as a club. Yeah. People say to me like, "Why are you [ __ ] bagging
01:54:02
the Warriors?" I'm not bagging them, you idiot. I'm giving my opinion of things
01:54:06
that I think could be done better or how I see things. They're actually my club
01:54:11
and and and and what do you know? Well, I [ __ ] coached them for 5 years, >> you know what I mean? And it some people
01:54:18
are so that's just go it's that's keyboard [ __ ] You know what I mean?
01:54:22
It's like rugby league if you know the people and they they are the rugby league people are the best people in the
01:54:32
sports >> domain cuz they get nothing. They get [ __ ] done and they make make sure that
01:54:38
you have a shitload of fun doing it. And now they're reaping the awards since
01:54:41
2023 when the WS thing kicked off, >> you know, and and when you look at the
01:54:46
demographic now that the Warriors got totally changed, you know, that crossover crowd that's come from Rugby
01:54:51
Union now because the Warriors have got it right. Rugby Union handed it to the Warriors on a
01:54:56
>> um you know on a [ __ ] on a on a rule change. >> What we got to be careful here is that
01:55:02
the that the NRL don't hand it back to rugby. You know, I text Joey on Sunday
01:55:06
and I said, "It's a game of [ __ ] touch. These referees are killing the
01:55:09
game >> cuz you see it. See, as a ex coach and ex player, you see it differently."
01:55:13
>> Um, and for us at home, it's definitely home home ground advantage because of
01:55:17
this the 66 again, you know. So, make hell the sun shines, boys, >> because they'll kind of come and change
01:55:22
that rule again and all of a sudden she's an even playing field again. >> Yeah.
01:55:26
>> You love that club, eh? And the sport. I' I absolutely love the club and I've
01:55:31
got I I absolutely love the sport and I've got two clubs in the Newcastle and
01:55:35
the Warriors, >> you know. I'd love >> if they were in if they were in a grand
01:55:38
final together. >> Oh, [ __ ] man. Well, I'd be in both changing rooms, you know.
01:55:42
>> Yeah. >> So, um New I when when I was at Newcastle, there's systemic racism at the time
01:55:51
there. I got in a bit of trouble for that as well. You know, like I stood my ground. Um, one of the players called
01:55:58
um, a mate of mine, Andrew Tang attire, a black so and so. I ended up having a [ __ ] fist fight with him in a pub
01:56:03
about it. Um, I was sort of known for that back there in Newcastle. Um, but Newcastle was where my dreams came true,
01:56:11
you know what I mean? It's was right on the coast. I love surfing from Tanaki.
01:56:17
It had everything, you know, and then coming back to coach the Warriors and just seeing it build over the last 25
01:56:23
years. You got to remember that like I'm since 2000. It's been here since 95
01:56:27
>> and I didn't get to see those first 5 years was overseas, but since 2000 I've
01:56:30
seen it >> go up and down like this. Sorry about the mic. Um, >> it's on a absolute crest of a wave at
01:56:38
the moment. And the only thing that is going to [ __ ] it up are these rule changes. You know what I mean? They're
01:56:44
gonna they're gonna somehow turn it into something that it's not. And for the
01:56:48
purist at the moment, such as myself and guys that are watching it going, leave the the rules alone and let it be a
01:56:56
contest. People aren't going to want to watch 60 point games, 60 to 20, 40 to
01:57:01
10, you know what I mean? They want to see a contest for 80 minutes. Um, and that's my fear at the moment. Um, but
01:57:07
yeah, I', as you can tell, I'm passionate. Love it. >> Are the Warriors ever going to win?
01:57:12
>> 100%. >> Yeah, I think I think they will. I think, you know, again, they're sort of
01:57:18
similar to the Kiwis is like once they get there, it's going to be hard to knock them off,
01:57:22
>> but they've got so many things against them. They got travel, they've got weather issues. You know,
01:57:28
it's cold, wet, um, you know, you've got Australians that want to come over here
01:57:34
for a lot more than what they they would get paid in Australia. >> So, you've got so much so much not going
01:57:41
for you, but I think they're operating really well at the moment. Um, they're
01:57:46
doing a great job off the football field. Like you see the different demographic and the crowds and the
01:57:50
socials and and I think this stuff here like media wise is is really important. You know, like they're pulling in so
01:57:57
many different people across the world now. Um, supporting uh this this club here that when once they do get it right
01:58:03
on the football field, they've going to find it really hard to get it wrong again cuz people go, "Shit, I want to be
01:58:09
involved in that club." So I think they you know they've been there what twice
01:58:13
or three times now to a final um 2011 2002 one other could be wrong. Um but I think
01:58:24
once they get there Dom it's yeah it'll be a hell of a party. It's goosebump
01:58:30
stuff when you see the pack stands at go media stadiums chanting the warriors winning song which was originally like a
01:58:36
just a dressing room sort of chant that they >> so so let's clear this one up. So I got
01:58:42
asked if I knew anyone that could write a song. Yeah. So Mick Mick asked me so I
01:58:47
went to Peter Erlich and asked him to write us a team song. So that song that everyone sings is written by Peter
01:58:53
Erlich. It's been changed cuz it's taken the swear words out of it, but it's
01:58:58
actually was written in 2001 by Pete >> actually by Pete Erlich. >> Do you know the words?
01:59:04
>> We are the Warriors. >> We are the team. We are the Warriors. That's all you [ __ ] need. So stand up
01:59:09
and shout it. Shout it to the end. We are the Warriors 100%. So he Yeah, he wrote that. Man, I don't sing it, but we
01:59:16
sung it plenty back in those days, but he um he wrote that song. Um, Ando was like, "Let's put a few [ __ ] swear
01:59:25
words in there, you know, get it get it pumped up." And yeah, now when they sing
01:59:29
it at at the game, so when I was I've done I'd commentated there for five or
01:59:34
six years at the Warriors for the radio stations on the sport and um with Alan Mack and and of course Sammy Hwitt and
01:59:41
when you the last few years was they stand up in the crowd and put it up on the screen and they start seeing it,
01:59:46
it's like, >> "Oh man, that's that's a team song, you know." So yeah, I the support's
01:59:52
fantastic. You know, you you you know what the warrior support can be like cuz when Origin came around um and grew to
02:00:02
what it's grown like, you see it every year >> since the 80s of what it's grown to. So
02:00:08
that's where if you want to model what support can look like if the Warriors
02:00:11
start winning, it's going to look like origin support. You know what I mean? So
02:00:16
>> yeah, they'll get there. I think they'll get there. you you mentioned just then
02:00:19
in that answer about the commentary stuff you've done. You've done quite a
02:00:21
bit of media stuff as well. Breakfast show on sins with um Israel Israel is um yeah actually I found your um exit quote
02:00:29
online after you were dumped or made redundant whatever um >> and it's it's it's wonderful. It's
02:00:35
really um graceful. Uh I am thankful for having such a big opportunity to be a breakfast host. Hell, who would have
02:00:42
thought who would have thought that? Business is business. Uh there are success and failure stories all the
02:00:47
time. I would like to think that Izzy and Kempy were a success. >> Yeah. Yeah.
02:00:51
>> And it's not my style. It's not my style to, you know, and and and of course Sans
02:00:57
was going through the the the um sale to Entain and Entain went with Scotty Stevenson with Izzy for breakfast
02:01:05
and mate, it's like you lose your position in a team. You go you go and join another club, you know what I mean?
02:01:10
So, um I'd set a goal. So, Marty Develin, good mate of mine. I started doing some when he was 1 ZB I'd go and
02:01:17
do the odd sad day with him and Tony V and all them guys and talk rugby league and I was and I was I thought all right
02:01:22
with it and and they were like come on in man like do it >> and Marty gave me a shot at a night spot
02:01:27
on a Sunday night >> so I would actually go in and I'd do the Sunday show just before they closed down
02:01:33
radio sport >> so I did maybe a month of that and I and I got to like it so I set a goal so I
02:01:39
wrote a little goal on my vision board and had my own breakfast show well I didn't know that you I went and filled
02:01:45
in in sport sport nation over a Christmas period for Izzy cuz Izzy went on his Christmas break that Baz McCullum
02:01:52
was going to get the English job and then they came to me and said, "Do you
02:01:55
want the breakfast job?" >> And I'd go, "Well, yeah, it's my goal.
02:01:58
I'm going to do that." You know, and and that's, you know, those opportunities
02:02:01
that you get, you just grab with both hands. And um I did that job for two years. Um I've loved media. I remember
02:02:07
Baya Mackey. Um Bailey used to come and he was a young TV3 reporter for um the news and and no Ando wouldn't give him
02:02:17
any time but he was a young mai reporter so I say who do you want and he go can I
02:02:21
get this guy and I'd go and get him and then when I lost my job and went out the
02:02:24
way that I did the first one of the first guys to give me a call was Bailey Mackey and he was a sport producer for
02:02:29
Marty television and he said oh what are you doing I said oh not much man lost just lost my job and he goes yeah I know
02:02:36
that he says have you thought about commentating And I, oh yeah, I'll give it a crack. He
02:02:40
says, well, come and we um I'll give you a job working on Marty television as a
02:02:44
commentator, >> you know what I mean? So, that's basically how I got my my start through
02:02:49
Marty and and Bailey. >> And then the rest was I've had a breakfast show and like I said to you,
02:02:54
now I'm looking at starting up my own podcast. >> Um cuz you you know talk talk with an
02:02:59
underwater with a mouthful of marbles as you might say. So there there's so much you've done,
02:03:06
rugby league, player, coach, admin, commentator. Um, I've heard you say that
02:03:10
your most important contribution might still lie ahead. >> I read that somewhere. What what do you
02:03:15
mean? What do you think it is? Well, you know, I've got this this thing about community and giving back and and
02:03:21
>> you know, my son's doing a he's a he's a he's a lawyer, but he's working for
02:03:26
Oakland University with first year law students and doing a project um at the moment and he's looking at um this
02:03:34
stuff, you know, and >> and that sort of community stuff and helping people understand, you know,
02:03:40
like it's it's easy to tell your story, but it's actually hard to understand it
02:03:45
because you don't live it, you know, and and there's so many like um instances
02:03:52
which you recognize and go, man, if only someone could really understand what's
02:03:56
going on there. You know, you you you're talking about the problem. You're not
02:04:00
dealing with the problem and you're maybe dealing with the wrong part of the
02:04:03
problem. Um so I, you know, personally I think that there's a little bit more for
02:04:09
me still to do with the community. Um I love giving back to the community. It's
02:04:13
it's something I've you know I've done down in my home. You know I used to go
02:04:17
back to my high school every year and talk. I met you know just recently I was out with um
02:04:25
my wife up in Ponmbbe and a young guy walked up to me and he he said and and this has happened to me quite often and
02:04:30
he said I remember you coming down and giving a talk at our school and it changed my life. I've now gone on and
02:04:37
done this. You know what I mean? So, um, a lot of those storytelling, um, situations that I put myself in was
02:04:45
basically telling the story that I've basically told you today in a more confined environment.
02:04:51
>> Um, to break what I call down that cordway and and take it off so that you
02:04:56
can open up and listen to what that change can look like, >> you know. Um, and if I was to give any
02:05:04
advice to someone is like the the one of the one of the strongest um, one of the strongest attributes that you
02:05:13
could help yourself with is creating a vision board. You know, because when I go back through my life and look at the
02:05:21
pictures in my life that were in my head that I converted into a goal that I now
02:05:26
have on a vision board, it's amazing how often those pictures change because you
02:05:32
believe in them. >> Um, and I've I'm just I've got a young a young painter working at my place at the
02:05:38
moment painting a house and uh he's 15. He's left school, doesn't know what he's
02:05:42
going to do. Um, and I'm working on him on a vision board with him at the moment, you know, because it's not you.
02:05:50
Well, that what I'm saying is you don't know what environment he's coming from.
02:05:54
He just needs a different picture. >> And I think there's so much in just that
02:05:59
that that saying, you know, why why you think about it now all of our young people got different pictures in their
02:06:05
hands got on Apple iPhone, you know, it's changing all the time, but why couldn't you create your own picture,
02:06:11
>> you know? So I think we're getting stuck in that part at the moment listening to
02:06:17
rhetoric listening to [ __ ] politicians talking about you know the state of play and stuff like that
02:06:22
actually what's the core issue how can how can we change it what are we going
02:06:26
to do to change it and that's the other thing with you know how many of us as as
02:06:30
professional people are actually thinking about doing stuff like that because I think every professional
02:06:35
athlete most of them have come from the type of environment that I've been in
02:06:39
it's okay to give back. It's okay to go and talk to schools and, you know, say,
02:06:45
"This is how I done it." >> Um cuz someone's always, you know,
02:06:49
looking for that, like I was as a as a young fellow, looking for that um that picture that, you know, this this
02:06:56
picture doesn't look quite look right for me. >> The the vision board thing is probably
02:07:00
one of the big takeaways um I've got from this chat. The fact that you were doing it when no one else was, like when
02:07:05
you're a teenage boy in White and the fact you're still doing it now um as a
02:07:08
man in your late 50s. I find that super inspiring. >> Yeah. And and and you know, I put
02:07:13
something on it last night, you know, like we um we pulled a a card together, me and my me and my partner, and and
02:07:20
just had a we actually pulled the same card out of the same deck, you know, and and and I read it and I was like, "Shit,
02:07:26
that's so true right now." And that's on the vision board, you know. So, um,
02:07:30
yeah, it it's it's an it's empowering, Dom, for someone like me, you know,
02:07:36
like, um, even though I I left school when I was 15, you know, I've got diplomas and language and and licenses
02:07:43
and and health and and all that sort of stuff. Um, so I I had probably more of an educational experience post school
02:07:50
than I did while I was while I was there. Yeah. >> But like I say to most people when
02:07:55
they're looking when I when I am you know looking at roles is I've also got
02:08:00
30 years of life experience >> you know and and I don't you know if I'm
02:08:05
hiring people I I like the piece of paper that they bring with them >> but I like the experience more you know
02:08:13
because the experience is real and and people have lived that. So, um, the vision board for me is it's it's it's
02:08:18
it's actually alive and I've got to change a few of the pictures on it. You know what
02:08:24
I mean? Like I had a picture of a one asset up on it and it's actually sitting
02:08:29
in the garage. So, I've got to take that down and change it type thing. >> Oh, cuz you got it. Jet ski, but I got
02:08:36
it. It's a car. But, but it's a it's a piece of art. You know what I mean? say,
02:08:42
"Oh, it's it's it's really funny like and I and I I'll talk this to kids when
02:08:48
they parents will phone me and say, "Oh, can you I talked to Ricky Herbert last
02:08:50
week, you know, at this um great man, Ricky, and this function." And he's he's
02:08:56
running his academy and he's him and his wife are looking after some some young
02:08:59
footballers down in Cambridge. And I said, "Oh, you wouldn't believe it,
02:09:02
Ricky. I was the first guy in Newcastle to be put in a family house when I went over there." Cuz I was only 19. So
02:09:08
they've got a house mom and I was the one of the very first times those houses
02:09:12
started. So mate, I've got some experience in those. I'll come down and have a chat to your kids. And um well,
02:09:18
next day on the phone, Ricky's, mate, get down here, you know. So um I'll I'll
02:09:23
be taking that down there, you know. I think I think one of the biggest assets I can leave with people is how they
02:09:28
actually understand what that looks like. >> Um and the and the if anything, the
02:09:34
power that it can hold with you if you if you've got that belief. You know, I've had um David Ney on the
02:09:39
podcast a couple of times. He was mental skills coach with um of Lydia Co and Israel Adisagna. Um they both had the
02:09:45
same thing like is he superimposed the belt on himself. Uh Lydia got a copy of Golf Digest magazine and put her face on
02:09:53
on the cover. >> Yeah. >> Um Jeez, I wish I was a I wish I was a golfer earning 30 million or a UFC
02:10:00
fighter like is earning 30 million. Jeez, I'm trying to get me first 30 million,
02:10:05
>> you know. But yeah, look it it's it's really powerful. Um, and it's, you know, if it's if you reinforce
02:10:14
that because it it helps you, you know what I mean? Like >> just say for instance, you you you go
02:10:20
through a bit of trouble and and you you're feeling a little bit negative and
02:10:24
down on yourself and you go and lie. See, so so my vision board is at the foot of my bed. So I look at it every
02:10:30
single day. Wow. you know, so I wake up in the morning, I'll look at it and and
02:10:34
go, "Yeah, okay. I'm this is this is where I'm headed." Type thing. What that
02:10:38
what it does for you is it puts you back in the right mindset, you know, and and
02:10:44
my mindset. I said to my partner only only couple of weeks ago, I said, "I'm
02:10:48
really grateful, you know." I said, "Have a look at me, you know, have a
02:10:52
look have a look where we've come from >> and and I'm just really grateful that
02:10:57
she's really empathic, beautiful woman." Um, and she's really encouraging and and
02:11:03
I just say, you know, I just wanted to say to you, I'm so grateful for the tools that you allow me to to um to use
02:11:12
so that I can understand why I'm feeling grateful and I'm just really grateful
02:11:16
for how you how you've been around me. >> And of course, I needed that cuz, you
02:11:19
know, I'm in between roles at the moment. I'm looking for something new and all that sort of stuff. And instead
02:11:23
of getting down on it, I'm going, man, well, have a look. you know, people where you come from would be happy to be
02:11:29
sitting in where you're sitting. What do you don't get shitty about it. >> Um, but you know, first time I've ever
02:11:36
talked about it cuz the other thing is I'm generally you see me in a shirt today. I'm generally walking around in
02:11:42
shorts and a singlet. She calls me Fred Dag. She get some get some clothes on. We live in the same sort of area. So
02:11:49
I'll I'll run there's a very popular bar called Jacuzzi and I'll run past here.
02:11:53
I'll see you sitting out the front. Um you've done pretty good for a a a boy
02:11:57
from White. >> Yeah. Like Yeah. Look, I think um and at the end of it when I look back on
02:12:04
it um I've given it a crack, you know. So I've I've given it a crack. I I I
02:12:11
think the underdog is the the most lethal um person you can deal with, >> you know. So this
02:12:22
I you know I've only just touched on stories you know like you've been in
02:12:27
positions where you just never wanted to be in you know had to fight yourself out
02:12:31
of it. I say to people I said this last week at a function you know like people say what it was like growing up in
02:12:36
white. Well yeah it was competitive but we we didn't just fight for a win. We
02:12:41
fought for oxygen >> you know we fought to breathe man. It was, >> you know, the the the the caliber of
02:12:47
person that came out of there was, you know, Charlie Mallister was an all black. Um Marty All Black with Colin
02:12:53
Cooper, you know, their kids and and Luke and Kayla. Um Jason Matthews was a surfing champion. Um Karen Topless was a
02:13:01
nipple. Um Silver Fern, myself and Davy Watson and Howie Ty all come out of the same rugby league club. um the
02:13:07
Montgomery's and the Lorent rode in the Olympics you you know and I'm just
02:13:11
touching on the sporting side you know my wife's from W she's a doctor you know
02:13:17
Bruce Sherik ran the ran the thoroughbred he's from white ran the thoroughbred um New Zealand this is all
02:13:22
from a town that's no bigger than 5,000 people um so I guess the the the um the wanting the will to fight the and
02:13:33
the will to get ahead >> you know it you weren't alone, you know, especially
02:13:39
in our upbringing down there in that small town. So when I look back on it, I say they the guy said to me, "What's one
02:13:44
thing you leave?" I said, "Well, just don't forget where you come from." And
02:13:47
I'll tell I'll tell you this story. I hopped in a van when I was 21 down in
02:13:52
Uranui. We actually got kicked out of the kicked out of the pub because Alan Sherik, who you know is a horse trainer,
02:13:57
is one of my best mates and there's 15 of us who were really good mates. We all
02:14:00
travel around. used to be around the mountain pub call, but we were at this pub. And he said, "Oh, we go and jump in
02:14:05
the van. You're in the front seat. You don't ever want to get in the front seat
02:14:08
because you get told to get in the front seat. You've done something wrong." And
02:14:12
um he put me in the front seat and I'm thinking, "What the [ __ ] have I done
02:14:16
wrong?" And I see I couldn't see it. So I I'd been acting like a pork chop, you
02:14:22
know, football star, blah blah blah. Jumped in the van cruising back from Uranui to Wer and he just give me who
02:14:28
the [ __ ] do you think you are? Don't forget where you come from. >> Mhm.
02:14:33
>> All right. And I c I cuddled up cuz I thought he was going to hit me next cuz
02:14:38
that's what they they give you a bout in the guts. So I've seen it happen in the
02:14:41
van a few times. >> And from that moment on it it straightened leveled me out. You know,
02:14:47
it basically taught me what ego was. >> So it taught me a hell of a lot. You
02:14:51
know, Ekart Tully and his books and how that ego thing works. Um I see a lot of that. I see a lot of that and it lets a
02:14:59
lot of people down. Um, but when you remember where you come from and thinking about, you know, growing up in
02:15:06
that caravan, you know, six of us in a 15t caravan to stayed homes to going to Newcastle cuz I had put linamon in a
02:15:14
headband on, played like a pork chop and to end up where I am now. Um, I will never forget where I come from. M
02:15:22
>> when you stand in front of the mirror having a shave, you like the man looking
02:15:25
back at you >> sometimes. >> Sometimes. Yeah. There's there's there's
02:15:31
a lots of parts of my life that I don't like, you know. Um but it's all it's all growth, Dom,
02:15:39
>> you know, there's there's times, you know, some of the hardest stuff is I was
02:15:43
a hard task master with my with my kids around sport, >> you know. Um my son told me when he was
02:15:50
14 he didn't want to play rugby anymore cuz every time he played rugby people
02:15:53
were saying to him are you going to be as good as your dad? >> Um >> yeah a lot of pressure.
02:15:58
>> Yeah. Yeah. Just broke my heart. >> Broke my broke my heart. Um >> but yeah these things that gez if I I
02:16:05
wouldn't do that now but I I I can't take it back. >> Um >> you just got to learn from them. E
02:16:10
>> well it doesn't define you. That's that's that's hopefully you know what I
02:16:15
keep telling myself. doesn't define that defined you at that moment. >> Yeah.
02:16:19
>> You know, but you're not that person anymore. >> So, um there's so much more to to to to
02:16:28
learn and to grow and and to be better at. Um and I'm the first to admit that.
02:16:33
You know, I'm not by nowhere near perfect. Um but I've got a loving partner. Um I've got kids that love me.
02:16:41
I've got some good friends. Um yeah, and and I've got a great sport that I love
02:16:46
>> and and and you know what else do you want? >> It's it's so cool. Like when when I was
02:16:53
um in my 20s, I would have thought, you know, by the time I get to my 50s, life's pretty much done. Well, you know,
02:16:58
everything you're going to know like um and then you get there and you realize,
02:17:01
oh [ __ ] oh no, there's different levels. >> Yeah. There's there's always another
02:17:05
mountain to climb. And I think that's an exciting thing about aging. >> Yeah. Well, you know, you if you're
02:17:09
listening to all the podcasts here at the moment, they're talking about reversing aging now in in our lifetime.
02:17:14
Um, that is going to be scary. I'm just waiting for robotics to come out. So,
02:17:19
give me give me a couple of new legs and a couple of new arms, you know. Um, but
02:17:23
yeah, look, I think, you know, I think retirement is what is it a word, you know, like
02:17:31
>> I'd much rather be doing something, you know, >> need a purpose.
02:17:34
>> Yeah. and and and purpose is is important, you know, probably the most important thing.
02:17:39
>> If you don't have any purpose, then [ __ ] it's a battle, you know, you
02:17:43
you're stuck. You you stay inside, you close your curtains, you won't do
02:17:46
anything. So, >> um it it's like what is that purpose? Cuz cuz for me, it's a revolving door.
02:17:52
You know, one one roll comes in and the other one goes out and then the next you're doing something
02:17:57
>> um different that you never ever thought you were going to do. Um I always just
02:18:00
think, you know, like give it your best. you know, if your best is good enough, you generally people love you for doing
02:18:06
what you're doing. >> Um, and then change, you know, >> change is constant.
02:18:11
>> So change for me in my whole career and my whole life has been constant, you
02:18:16
know, from from when I was a kid to to even today sitting here sitting here with you and thinking for the last two
02:18:23
weeks, I got to am I really going to go on that show and talk to Dom about my life?
02:18:27
>> It's the first time you ever do that, you know. So, um, on our walk this
02:18:31
morning, my partner said to me, "Are you ready for it?" You know, and I was like,
02:18:35
"Yeah, I think I am." >> Um, and that's, you know, at at my age,
02:18:40
obviously, I don't think of age. I think I think one of the things that makes
02:18:43
people old is talking about your age and thinking thinking that you're that age.
02:18:47
Um, and I've never ever seen that part of myself, you know, like when I was ringing wet getting tossed around the
02:18:55
lounge room. I would have been 30 kilos. I actually thought I was like a man >> in my head, you know. Um, people say,
02:19:04
"Geez, you're a big man." I'm like, "No, no, I'm tiny man." Cuz it's in my head,
02:19:09
you know how in my football career they say, "Oh, how old are you?" And I was
02:19:12
always say I was 27 and I was 31. You know, I just I had the Oh, no. I'm 27,
02:19:18
man. You know, like, and the No, no, I'm going to go and check your passport and
02:19:21
sign your contracts and then put my date on it. What's your date? So, I don't
02:19:25
know birthdays. Like, I always get my mum's birthday wrong. I don't follow
02:19:30
birthdays or dates like Christmases and Anzacs and stuff. I don't know when they
02:19:33
fall. >> Um, yeah. And I just think it's, you know, while you're while you're
02:19:37
breathing, might as well um might as well give it a decent crack. >> 100%. How's this been for you today?
02:19:45
Yeah, good. Yeah, it's Yeah, Dom, it's been good. It's Yeah, >> you feel quite like vulnerable now or
02:19:51
like exposed or >> I do. I do. You know, I think, you know, I think vulnerability is a good thing.
02:19:56
Um, >> but I do, you know, like I've done this just as much for me, >> you know, as as it is, you know, again,
02:20:03
like I had that, oh, why don't why do people want to listen to me talking? You
02:20:07
know what I mean? Like I had that negativity come into my head. And um you know there's times when people say you
02:20:15
know well you you know you you're a decent footballer and you coached and you forget about that um
02:20:22
>> and you're just like well yeah maybe there is something in here you know if
02:20:26
there's I always used to say this when I talk with school you know if there's one
02:20:29
thing that someone can take away from this and changes your life then I've succeeded.
02:20:32
>> Yeah. you know, because that one thing of standing on the hill or going to stay
02:20:36
at Franks that night, um, or putting on that linament, you know what I mean? It changed it changed my life drastically.
02:20:43
Um, >> and you know, it's it's not about changing that one life because that, you
02:20:49
know, there's a there's an old adage that, you know, what does 1 plus 1 equal? It's not two, it's 11. You know,
02:20:55
>> and then that 11 plus 11, it's 1,11. You know what I mean? Yeah. the one
02:21:00
change is actually multiplied um a thousand times and if I can have an effect in that change then you know at
02:21:08
least you've left something. >> Yeah. Well, this has been a great chat.
02:21:11
It's it's been it's been a lot of fun from my perspective and um yeah, I
02:21:15
appreciate you being so open about the the crunchy stuff early on. No, I mean >> people that people that um only know you
02:21:22
for your public persona, I mean their opinion doesn't matter anyway, but these
02:21:25
people would have no idea like what you've been through or what your journey
02:21:28
is. No, I I I don't think so. I don't talk I don't talk about it. Um, you
02:21:33
know, and I've I just, you know, sometimes I think to myself, why don't you talk
02:21:39
about it? You know, is it are is it you that doesn't want to hear it or >> are you too frightened to deal with it?
02:21:47
Um, >> but, you know, at the end of the day, I think, you know, authenticity is really
02:21:53
important, you know, as I get older to to be authentic. Um because because you know you I run this this really straight
02:22:02
line you know like between black and white you know so I'm when I say I'm
02:22:07
actually doing it for myself I'm really am doing it for myself cuz I want people
02:22:12
to understand that hey man from a place of authenticity >> this is what I actually went through.
02:22:17
>> Yeah. you know, I I never had a silver spoon in my mouth and I didn't, you
02:22:21
know, didn't, you know, fall on fall on a a a football and and it and it all
02:22:27
came to me, you know, in a in an easy fashion, it was it was a grind, >> you know, it was a grind right from day
02:22:36
dot. Um, even and even till today, it's still a grind, you know. So, um, >> yeah,
02:22:45
I'm I'm happy to come and talk to you. Is is breaking the cycle one of your
02:22:48
greatest victories? >> Yeah. Yeah. Not I haven't broken it 100%. I think I think trauma and DNA are
02:22:55
um are misunderstood, you know. Um and DNA isn't just physical, you know. DNA
02:23:01
is mental >> as well, you know. It's it's seeing seeing DNA travels through you
02:23:07
>> um from the outside. and and um one of the biggest things that I've I've made a
02:23:12
a purpose is not to try and pass as much trauma on to my kids as as I can. >> Um it's harder to do
02:23:20
um and to say um but you know when I I was speaking to my son about this yesterday, you know, having a bit of
02:23:29
practice with my son talking about, you know, what he's doing and and stuff like
02:23:32
that, you know, when he when he listens to me, he he breaks down and cries. He he can't believe it.
02:23:37
>> It's bloody sad, mate. you know, and >> none of it was your fault.
02:23:40
>> Yeah. And he's and and I get that with him, but but I also say to him, look, I
02:23:44
don't want to pass this on to you. I just want you to understand, you know, like this is this is what's going on. We
02:23:48
don't have to be like this. And >> um yeah, it's a for for me it's it it is a little bit of
02:23:56
healing. >> Um it's a it's it's frightening to to be putting it out there.
02:24:03
>> Um but it but again, you know, a lot of people are they misunderstand me. M
02:24:07
>> you know what I mean? Um I think it's about time people sort of understood the
02:24:12
the true story as well as the real story of you know there's some there's some
02:24:16
stuff here that maybe you know think twice about you know um when you're putting your your picture up next to me
02:24:25
and the dart board and you're throwing those darts at me that maybe maybe don't
02:24:28
aim between my eyes. Don't don't be so quick to judge. >> Hit me on the shoulder. Hit me on the
02:24:33
shoulder every then. Oh, I'm I'm proud of you, mate. Are you proud of yourself?
02:24:39
>> Um Lee, look, I am. I I think um success is one of the things that we don't do
02:24:44
well enough in our culture. I think um you have to celebrate success and I I just don't think you have to um vocalize
02:24:51
it and and show it off, >> you know. I think I think success is like I I'm happy sharing my success with
02:24:59
my immediate friends and family and I don't need a wider circle to pat me on
02:25:03
the back. >> Yeah. You know, I know and and the biggest su the biggest person I have to
02:25:08
convince that um that I am celebrating successes myself. >> Mhm. >> And if I can do that, then I'm happy.
02:25:19
>> Tony Kim, thanks so much for coming on the podcast, mate. >> Cheers, Dom.
02:25:23
>> It's been awesome. >> Been a while. It's been longer than a
02:25:26
game of footing. It has. Cheers, mate.