00:00:00
What sort of a kid were you?
00:00:01
>> My sister and two brothers drowned. My
00:00:03
mom lost the plot. I always thought my
00:00:04
grandmother was my mother. People see me
00:00:06
as that footballist. They don't know the
00:00:07
things that I don't know. My dad was a
00:00:08
really tough guy. He's 6'4. He had hands
00:00:11
like mitts. I'm going to have to give
00:00:12
you a hiding, but I'm going to
00:00:13
apologize. Sorry. Because I love you.
00:00:15
>> What impact does it have on a child
00:00:16
seeing your mom get beaten up by your
00:00:17
dad?
00:00:18
>> It's traumatic. I got diagnosed with
00:00:19
PTSD. I bought one of them home when I
00:00:21
was at Newcastle. A couple of years
00:00:23
later, he did the same thing. His note
00:00:24
said, you know, just contact my bro and
00:00:26
he'll sort everything out. My story is
00:00:27
exactly the same as those two. Why am I
00:00:29
still here? There's something wrong with
00:00:30
this picture. The goal I ripped was to
00:00:32
have a two-story home.
00:00:33
>> None of it was your fault.
00:00:34
>> Are you proud of yourself?
00:00:35
>> The biggest person I have to convince is
00:00:37
myself.
00:00:38
>> Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is
00:00:41
the center of performance. Whenever
00:00:42
there's a top performance in New
00:00:43
Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:00:45
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that
00:00:47
for days. That's the boys who got the
00:00:50
hole in one in Topore.
00:00:53
>> He did it again. Hey Finn, how's the
00:00:55
performance going?
00:00:56
>> Top tier.
00:00:56
>> Nice. This is our generate room. In
00:00:59
here, you'll find our top performers
00:01:00
helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver
00:01:02
investments. Get an F in maximize.
00:01:05
Generate.
00:01:06
>> Putting performance first.
00:01:08
>> Kempy. Tony Kemp, welcome to the
00:01:09
podcast. Hey, Dom. Yeah, happy to be
00:01:11
here, mate. Why now? Oh, it's you know,
00:01:15
like I was saying before, it's been a,
00:01:17
you know, a number of requests to come
00:01:19
try and get me on a podcast. Um but
00:01:22
through friends and and you know me
00:01:24
doing my homework and talking you know
00:01:27
um to those people about you know is it
00:01:30
time to talk um I've just decided yeah
00:01:33
Dom Harvey you know people actually rate
00:01:35
you and give you a good um a good score
00:01:38
and I thought yeah well why not go on go
00:01:40
on Dom show and have a chat.
00:01:42
>> I appreciate it. And just before we
00:01:44
started you said you're um there might
00:01:46
be some things that you talk about that
00:01:47
you've never talked about before. I
00:01:49
suppose that depends on me asking the
00:01:51
right questions or taking in the right
00:01:52
area.
00:01:52
>> Well, yeah, you're you're the you're the
00:01:54
um the the host, aren't you? You're sort
00:01:56
of getting it out of me. Um but yeah,
00:01:59
like as you know, people Dom, you know,
00:02:02
they I guess they the the current one is
00:02:05
they know me for my opinion on the
00:02:07
Warriors. Um you know, working with
00:02:08
Marty Develin or running, you know, my
00:02:11
radio breakfast show with Izzy when I
00:02:13
was doing that and and being so
00:02:14
polarizing around um giving my opinion.
00:02:17
Um but yeah, you know, they've had a
00:02:20
wonderful football career and you for 35
00:02:22
years it's it's been around and um but
00:02:25
it's, you know, I don't talk a hell of a
00:02:28
lot about Tony Kemp. You know, people
00:02:30
people that read about me in the media
00:02:31
just think, "Oh, that's that rugby
00:02:32
league guy." So, um you might hear a
00:02:35
little bit more about me today.
00:02:37
>> Well, it's wonderful to have you here.
00:02:39
>> Thanks, mate.
00:02:39
>> Yeah. Um yeah, 25 games for the Kiwis,
00:02:42
more than 250 first class games, coach
00:02:44
of the Warriors, and just as you alluded
00:02:46
to then the media stuff. I'm curious
00:02:48
about the the the media stuff like um
00:02:50
cuz you are quite outspoken and you can
00:02:52
be quite brash and blunt and having been
00:02:55
on the receiving end of that yourself as
00:02:56
a a player, I guess, and a coach. Um,
00:02:59
like do do you feel bad sometimes when
00:03:01
you give your honest opinions? And
00:03:03
>> Well, I I look I I guess you've got to
00:03:06
be able to take the good with the bad,
00:03:08
you know, like it's I'm not the type of
00:03:10
guy. There's a saying there's a saying,
00:03:12
Dom, you know, it it goes along the
00:03:14
lines of um I'd much rather be hunted
00:03:18
like a wolf than ridden like a donkey.
00:03:20
And I I think when I heard that saying,
00:03:24
it's sort of like, you know, as long as
00:03:26
I'm comfortable in what I'm saying, um
00:03:28
it's my opinion. It's not in anyone
00:03:30
else's. I'm you're not riding me. Um
00:03:32
you're not getting me to to tow the
00:03:34
party line. And and people that know me
00:03:36
um know that that's what Tony Kemp
00:03:38
stands for, you know. So, um look, I've
00:03:41
been on both sides of the fences, you
00:03:42
know, as a player and a and a coach. and
00:03:44
and then I went into the media and and I
00:03:47
got to work with, you know, people when
00:03:49
I was playing and coaching and then uh
00:03:51
on the other side of the fence which was
00:03:53
asking the questions and I guess when
00:03:55
you're talking the sport um I spend a
00:03:58
lot of time investigating and and
00:04:00
studying the sport and and I think I've
00:04:02
got a fair um account of what's going
00:04:04
on. So when I do put something out
00:04:06
there, I I honestly believe it. Um I'm
00:04:09
happy to say, "Hey, you got that one
00:04:10
wrong." Um but generally, you know, when
00:04:13
I say something, especially in that
00:04:15
rugby league, um realm or in sport in
00:04:17
general, I I tend to tend to say how I
00:04:20
see it,
00:04:20
>> you know.
00:04:21
>> Is it awkward if you ever bump into
00:04:23
players after
00:04:24
>> 100%. You know, the guys have hopped out
00:04:26
of out of light lifts and got a little
00:04:29
bit of upset, you know. Uh but, you
00:04:32
know, I'm not I'm not the type of black
00:04:33
to back down, you know. So, I was
00:04:35
brought up, you know, in in a um family
00:04:39
environment which was pretty tough. You
00:04:41
know, I was I never had an opportunity
00:04:44
to have an opinion when I grew up. You
00:04:45
know, my dad was a um a really tough
00:04:48
guy. He was he was tough. You know,
00:04:50
you're trying to explain. He's 6'4. He
00:04:53
had hands like mitts. You know, that
00:04:54
I've got big hands. His hand one hand
00:04:56
was twice the size of mine. And I wore
00:04:58
that quite a lot. Um, but he didn't give
00:05:00
me an opportunity to have an opinion or
00:05:02
or be able to discuss anything. Um, so
00:05:05
when you're putting something out there
00:05:07
and yes, it can be it can be brutal. Um,
00:05:10
and it can be polarizing and and and and
00:05:12
honest, it it has upset some people. Now
00:05:15
I and I know that um but at the end of
00:05:18
the day, you know, like I wouldn't say
00:05:19
that type of thing if I didn't believe
00:05:20
it. And and there are times when I've
00:05:23
run into, you know, ex players or
00:05:25
ex-coaches or or footballers and and
00:05:28
we've had a crack at each other. Um, and
00:05:29
I'll just say, well, hey, man, it's only
00:05:31
opinion. Like, at the at the end of the
00:05:33
day, this is one of the things that I
00:05:34
remember, um, Dom, and I and I say this
00:05:36
to people, it's just a game of footy.
00:05:38
>> Like, you know, it's not life or death.
00:05:40
It's it's a game of footy. It's someone
00:05:41
with an opinion. Um,
00:05:43
>> and you got to remember, too, I've been
00:05:44
on the other side of the fence when you
00:05:45
look read your social media comments. I
00:05:47
I said this to my partner, you know,
00:05:49
like it's um I can laugh at that because
00:05:53
the resilience that I got growing up
00:05:55
where I never had an opportunity to to
00:05:57
have a discussion or being able to have
00:06:00
an opinion is quite laughable to these
00:06:02
people that hide behind a computer and
00:06:04
and a keyboard um warriors, you know
00:06:06
what I mean? So um yeah, it's I could
00:06:09
tell you a few stories about a few
00:06:10
people, but we move on. that same per
00:06:13
person that hopped out of the lift, you
00:06:14
know, he's he stops and we have a good
00:06:16
chat now and a good laugh.
00:06:17
>> Oh, yeah. Time time time is a great
00:06:18
healer.
00:06:20
>> Yeah, it is. It is. But, you know,
00:06:21
that's again, it's for me knowing the
00:06:25
reason why I got into media was because
00:06:27
that it was a profile and and it was
00:06:29
paying the bills, you know. So, um
00:06:32
people hire you for, you know, you to do
00:06:35
a job and sometimes that job can't be
00:06:38
always been, you know, ridden like a
00:06:40
donkey.
00:06:42
Well, yeah. I'm I'm from a media
00:06:43
background as well, and the worst thing
00:06:44
you can do is be beige or vanilla. You
00:06:46
just can't you have to you have to have
00:06:48
some hot takes or some strong opinions.
00:06:50
>> Well, yeah. And then and that's, you
00:06:52
know, generally why people um are
00:06:54
constantly on the phone to me to try and
00:06:56
get my opinion on especially, you know,
00:06:58
some some really polarizing
00:07:01
um
00:07:03
I guess events that happen. You know,
00:07:04
there's some stuff that I won't touch or
00:07:06
go near. Um, but you know, when it's
00:07:08
just a game of footy and and they want
00:07:10
an honest opinion about it, I'll
00:07:11
generally give it.
00:07:12
>> Yeah. What won't you touch or go near?
00:07:14
>> I got a phone call about a player that
00:07:16
um in Australia who who uh
00:07:22
he he murdered his wife and his kids um
00:07:25
and he played at the Warriors and I and
00:07:27
>> Oh, that I remember that. Yeah. Terrible
00:07:29
domestic violence. He actually play when
00:07:30
I coached the Warriors, he played or he
00:07:33
trolled for us and they, you know, the
00:07:35
media as they do put put this together
00:07:37
and and phone me up to give to get a
00:07:40
comment and I said I got nothing to say,
00:07:42
you know, like I don't know anything
00:07:44
about that side of things. Um, so, you
00:07:46
know, you got to be really I think I'
00:07:49
I've sort of worked out the media
00:07:51
through my career. Um, I know when to
00:07:53
say something. You know, I've I've built
00:07:55
a profile out of it. And you know
00:07:58
there's there's things that you touch
00:07:59
and there's things that you don't go
00:08:01
anywhere near and and that was one of
00:08:02
the the situations where you know they
00:08:04
they went oh he used to coach him and we
00:08:06
he'll say something and tell us about
00:08:08
the character and I was like got nothing
00:08:10
to do with me that
00:08:11
>> yeah whether he was a good trainer or
00:08:12
not suddenly that's irrelevant at that
00:08:14
point. Yeah talking I'm not talking
00:08:15
about that.
00:08:16
>> Okay. So um you're born in Northland and
00:08:18
you moved to Wra as a little boy. What
00:08:20
are you what are your earliest memories?
00:08:21
What sort of a kid were you?
00:08:23
>> Fluent Moldi Moldi as your first
00:08:24
language.
00:08:25
>> Uh Maldi. Yeah. So yeah, so this is the
00:08:27
stuff, you know, why you know that I've
00:08:30
never ever spoken about the storm, but
00:08:32
um if we go back right back um my mom, I
00:08:36
was the youngest of four kids and I was
00:08:40
born in Fangad and raised in Kitty Kitty
00:08:43
and Kokoy. Um and my siblings, I had one
00:08:47
sister and two brothers. Um my my
00:08:49
William Diane
00:08:50
>> Yeah. And my my um birth father died
00:08:54
when he was 29. So I was only 6 months
00:08:56
old. Um but not long after that, my
00:09:00
sister and two brothers drowned.
00:09:02
>> Um and my mom lost the plot. Um which is
00:09:06
which is understandable, you know,
00:09:08
>> she went a little bit um sideways and
00:09:12
ended up putting me with my grandmother.
00:09:14
So my grandmother's raised me till I was
00:09:16
three and I always thought my
00:09:17
grandmother was my mother. So those are
00:09:19
the earliest memories that I've got. Um,
00:09:22
and then my mom met my my dad, who I
00:09:24
called my dad. Um, and we moved to
00:09:26
Kittykitty. And, um, it was it was a it
00:09:29
was a different upbringing, you know,
00:09:30
like, so I've gone from the youngest to
00:09:32
the oldest. Um, my stepfather, Phil's
00:09:35
had, you know, another another son and
00:09:37
two daughters. So, I'm now in this
00:09:40
family. My mom's come to pick me up off
00:09:41
my nan and taken me away. Um, I thought,
00:09:43
oh, you know, I thought that was my
00:09:46
mother and who's this lady? Um we've
00:09:49
moved down to Anadi and um yeah sort of
00:09:52
was a was a pretty you know it's not a
00:09:55
unique you know my we were state state
00:09:57
family living in state homes and and you
00:10:00
know not uncommon to to have 12 to 15
00:10:03
people in the house cuz my dad was a um
00:10:06
a career of the family as you know if
00:10:08
anyone had a problem child they moved in
00:10:10
with us. um dad you know with my fang
00:10:12
eyed brothers um were raised with with
00:10:15
me which my dad's sister's sons um yeah
00:10:18
and we just we we lived there in Fangad
00:10:20
till the age of oh probably 56 was my
00:10:24
earliest um memories of that but it
00:10:27
wasn't they they they were tough
00:10:29
memories you know my mom was sort of
00:10:32
still getting over you know in hindsight
00:10:35
um some serious loss and my father was a
00:10:38
young father who's who was raising a
00:10:40
young family and had me as well in
00:10:42
there. Um, and yeah, it was it was
00:10:45
really tough, you know, like people say,
00:10:47
"What was your dad? What you know, what
00:10:49
was your dad like?" And um, the people
00:10:52
in White know my dad really well cuz
00:10:54
he's, you know, full Kemp. They he he
00:10:57
coached all the kids,
00:10:58
>> coached all my brother's teams,
00:11:00
everyone, you know, he had a photo up in
00:11:01
the club room and was my dad was in
00:11:03
there. Um, but he was a hard man, you
00:11:05
know, because he he had, you know, love
00:11:09
in this fist and hate in this fist. And
00:11:11
I always tell people this story that,
00:11:13
you know, I'm I'm going to I'm going to
00:11:15
have to give you a hiding. Um, but I'm
00:11:17
going to apologize to you and say I'm
00:11:19
sorry because I love you, but I had to
00:11:20
teach you a lesson. And for a young
00:11:22
bloke growing up like that, it was
00:11:24
really confusing, you know? It was like,
00:11:27
yeah, man. You like, you're going to
00:11:28
give me a hiding. And and I'm not
00:11:30
talking like, you know, you get a a
00:11:31
strap or a kick up the bum. I'm talking
00:11:33
about you're getting you're getting
00:11:34
ragdoled around the place and then you
00:11:36
put on his knee and he's a big man and
00:11:38
he's cuddling and you're saying, "Hey,
00:11:39
I'm I'm trying to teach a lesson, you
00:11:41
know." Um, so I was I I as my earliest
00:11:44
memories are growing up there is just
00:11:46
sort of dealing with that type of
00:11:47
confusion around these two emotions of
00:11:50
of love and hate. Um, and one of my
00:11:52
outlets of course was sport, you know.
00:11:55
So, um, getting up on a Saturday morning
00:11:58
listening to the radio, please don't
00:12:00
cancel it cuz of the rain. I was the
00:12:02
opposite.
00:12:04
>> I just wanted to stay home and watch
00:12:05
now. I prayed for it to be cancelled.
00:12:07
>> No. No. It was like, man, I don't care.
00:12:09
I don't care. Just let me out. Get me
00:12:11
out. Um, and those was, you know, those
00:12:13
were those were some of the the the I
00:12:17
guess changes really early on in my
00:12:19
life. You know, when I look back on it
00:12:21
now, you get someone commenting on
00:12:23
social media about, you know, oh, shut
00:12:25
up, Kemp, you [ __ ] You know, don't
00:12:26
know what you're talking about, mate.
00:12:28
They they don't they don't hurt.
00:12:30
They're, you know, they're they're like
00:12:32
raindrops, you know, they've fallen off
00:12:34
the back of your your rain jacket. Um,
00:12:36
compared to what I was, you know, bought
00:12:38
up like.
00:12:41
>> Is Is your mom still around?
00:12:42
>> Yeah, she is. Stubborn old stubborn old
00:12:45
bat she is. She
00:12:46
>> Did you ever talk about like the I mean,
00:12:48
what she's been through is just
00:12:49
unimaginable adversity and grief. Like,
00:12:52
did you did like Yeah. Do you talk about
00:12:54
the drowning and the the loss of three
00:12:56
siblings?
00:12:56
>> Yeah. Look, I I've tried numerous times
00:12:58
to talk to mom about, you know, Dy and
00:13:00
Norman and and William and and, you
00:13:03
know, just what she went through and
00:13:04
even even my birth father. Um, but she
00:13:07
won't go there. You know, she's I I came
00:13:10
back in 2000 to coach the Warriors and
00:13:13
in those first 5 years. My my siblings
00:13:16
never had a had a headstone. I didn't
00:13:18
actually know where they were. So, I'm
00:13:19
in my 30s before I've actually gone and
00:13:21
found them up in Manu and Fangad where
00:13:24
they've been buried. And I got a a good
00:13:25
mate of mine, Willie Helin, who was our
00:13:27
our gearman at the time. Um, does Lori
00:13:29
Hail's job now at the Warriors. He used
00:13:31
to do that for me. And Daniel, he worked
00:13:33
in a in a headstone place. He did me up
00:13:36
a headstone and I actually went and put
00:13:37
it on my my sisters and my brothers and
00:13:39
and just so happened that just around
00:13:41
the corner my my birth father was buried
00:13:43
there as well. So, you know, when you
00:13:45
when you're sort of looking at that
00:13:47
growing up and and in the back of my
00:13:49
mind, I knew that I had this other
00:13:52
sister and these other two brothers and
00:13:54
and a birth father, but I'd never ever
00:13:56
spoken about it, you know. Um, my
00:13:59
surname, my original surname is Alice.
00:14:02
Um, and probably probably related to the
00:14:05
Mark Alicees of the world and all these
00:14:07
people. um you know um which I've often
00:14:11
seen when an Alice runs out on a
00:14:12
sporting field I'm just gez are my
00:14:14
cousins like you do they do I you know
00:14:16
do we fit in each other's um [ __ ] papa
00:14:20
somewhere um but I was raised I was
00:14:23
raised a camp you know like that's
00:14:25
that's when my dad came and who I've
00:14:28
only ever known as my father um and and
00:14:31
raised me with my mother um I was raised
00:14:34
a Kemp and and I've I've I've kept that
00:14:37
you know, um,
00:14:39
>> and it's just, you know, when I go and
00:14:40
talk to my mom, hey, what about this
00:14:42
other side? It my mom is
00:14:46
pretty much basically
00:14:49
taken it with her, you know, she's she's
00:14:52
whether she's dealt with it or not, I I
00:14:54
can't judge her for that, but I can only
00:14:57
ask her so many questions that she will
00:14:59
give me answers to, but I won't push
00:15:01
her, you know, cuz she's already been
00:15:02
through enough. I had um the the great
00:15:05
Mark Graham on the podcast a couple of
00:15:06
years ago and and I I asked if he wanted
00:15:08
to talk about his son who took his own
00:15:10
life and and his answer was like not not
00:15:12
really Dom because if I if I talk about
00:15:14
it it's painful so I just try not to
00:15:16
talk about it or think about it. Maybe
00:15:17
that's the same with your mom. It's just
00:15:19
too difficult.
00:15:20
>> Yeah. Yeah, it is. And and and it is
00:15:22
painful.
00:15:24
I I wouldn't say it's painful. Look, two
00:15:26
of my faro brothers committed suicide.
00:15:28
Um I I bought one of them home when I
00:15:31
was at Newcastle. Uh he was the same age
00:15:33
as me. He was brought up in my house
00:15:34
with me, a puck. And then my older
00:15:37
brother Phil um who was named after my
00:15:39
father. Um a couple of years later, he
00:15:42
did the same thing, you know, and and I
00:15:44
never spoke about it for years. You
00:15:46
know, I actually I lost the plot the
00:15:48
second time when Phil did it. You know,
00:15:49
I didn't he he in his note said, you
00:15:52
know, just contact my bro and he'll sort
00:15:54
everything out. And I got really hurt by
00:15:56
that comment. um because I was talking
00:15:59
to him and he was in intimating to me
00:16:02
that he was thinking about giving up,
00:16:04
you know. Um and in hindsight, you know,
00:16:08
there's a lot of stuff that I've learned
00:16:10
throughout my life that I got to a stage
00:16:13
in my life um where I was seeing a
00:16:16
counselor and a psycho psychiatrist, a
00:16:18
psychologist and and and got to
00:16:21
understand that there was actually help
00:16:22
there that could have um been really
00:16:25
helpful for these two BS as well. So I I
00:16:28
I get what what Mark Graham, the great
00:16:30
Mark Graham, you know, and I'll tell you
00:16:32
a story about that one, too. But
00:16:33
>> the great the great Mark Graham when you
00:16:35
when you're losing a family to suicide.
00:16:38
Um
00:16:38
>> the
00:16:40
painful like everyone's got a different
00:16:42
way just, you know, there's a lot of
00:16:44
hurt there
00:16:45
>> cuz you don't know could you have done
00:16:46
anything else, you know, what did what
00:16:49
did I miss? How come I'm in the you know
00:16:51
cuz my my story is exactly the same as
00:16:53
those two and why am I still here?
00:16:55
>> You know what I mean? So, it's a it's a
00:16:58
you know, it's a real um those are the
00:17:01
those are the things that I really
00:17:02
haven't told people about, Dom. You
00:17:04
know, it's it's things that you're
00:17:06
dealing with. Um you know, you look at
00:17:08
that my my father, you know, my real
00:17:11
father died at 29. My father raised me
00:17:13
died at 41. Um my mom has to sit there.
00:17:16
She's lost two husbands and three kids.
00:17:19
Um she's 84 now, 85 and still stubborn
00:17:24
as ever. you know what I mean? And just
00:17:26
won't give in. Um, but on, you know,
00:17:29
glass half full is looking at those
00:17:31
things that my mother's got and and you
00:17:33
can you can see, well,
00:17:34
>> yeah, man. Well, a lot of people have
00:17:36
told me you're stubborn, you know,
00:17:37
you're resilient. Um, and if you're
00:17:40
looking at for someone for a bit of
00:17:42
inspiration, you look at you, you know,
00:17:43
I don't have to look too far.
00:17:47
>> Thanks for being so open about that.
00:17:48
[ __ ] you've done the work, eh?
00:17:50
>> Yeah. Yeah. What happened? Did it just
00:17:53
reach ahead in your life and
00:17:54
>> m well to be to be honest I'm like um
00:17:59
there's only a couple of people that
00:18:00
know my story you know um one of one of
00:18:02
them is my best mate um Bruce Sherik who
00:18:05
runs his own him and Posty Craig Inis
00:18:08
they run their their was a man what used
00:18:09
to be called a sporty they run their
00:18:11
business together um good good followers
00:18:13
Alan Allen you know the trainer great
00:18:16
horse trainer is another good mate of
00:18:17
mine um but yeah it's it's sort of
00:18:21
there's not too many you you live with
00:18:23
that. You live with that in the
00:18:25
background, you know what I mean? So,
00:18:26
you you're getting on with life. Um, and
00:18:30
you're trying to to build a picture
00:18:32
where the picture that you grow up with
00:18:34
isn't you sort of I would always say to
00:18:36
myself, there's something wrong with
00:18:37
this picture. You know, there's
00:18:38
something wrong with this picture. You
00:18:39
know, why why um is this picture so
00:18:44
distorted? You know what I mean? And it
00:18:47
got to it got to a stage in my career
00:18:49
when I I finally broke down and and it
00:18:51
was in 2013. Um
00:18:54
I got into some serious depression. Um
00:18:57
and I lock you locked myself away and I
00:19:00
was getting some help from some good
00:19:02
psychologists and psychiatrists. And I
00:19:05
remember Emma um Holmes who was my
00:19:07
psychologist. She's brilliant. She said
00:19:09
to me, um, look, if it if it it wasn't a
00:19:14
matter of if it was going to happen, it
00:19:15
was when it was going to happen. And and
00:19:17
it's happening for you right now. Um,
00:19:20
and of course, I was really busy, you
00:19:23
know, I grew up and I kept busy and I
00:19:24
kept busy from a really young age. Um,
00:19:26
but it, you know, going right back to
00:19:29
what we're talking about, you know,
00:19:30
which is, you know, not not about footy
00:19:33
is, you know, the picture for me. I I
00:19:36
remember I remember going to a mate's
00:19:38
place from school one day and and we
00:19:41
moved down to Tatanaki. Um I was five
00:19:44
going on six I think first I remember
00:19:47
primma ones at your central school
00:19:50
>> and um I was fluent in real you know
00:19:52
what I mean? So we talked mi I I didn't
00:19:54
talk like this you know my my language
00:19:56
when I went to Tanaki
00:19:58
>> was Mai and when I went down there I was
00:20:00
like what these flash fellas talking
00:20:02
this this English all the time you know
00:20:04
what I mean? Um, and my my mom and my
00:20:07
mom was fluent in T or she still is and
00:20:09
and and she gave up on it. You know, it
00:20:11
was like, well, we've got to fit in and
00:20:13
we're not talking like that anymore. And
00:20:14
all of a sudden, um, you know, growing
00:20:17
up in this town and and talking like
00:20:19
this and, you know, we're state family
00:20:22
waiting for waiting for homes. We we
00:20:23
spent our first two years down there in
00:20:26
a caravan. Um, so six f six people in a
00:20:29
15t caravan down at the the motor camp.
00:20:33
Um but there were three caravans. There
00:20:35
were two two uncles. My uncles next to
00:20:37
my dad. Um but brilliant time, you know,
00:20:40
surfing down there at the bar and and
00:20:43
fishing and running and that. But we
00:20:45
were sort of going around this sort of,
00:20:48
you know, waiting for a house, you know,
00:20:50
stayed home. Can't wait to get into a
00:20:52
house. And every time we got a house,
00:20:53
we'd have other family members living
00:20:54
with us. And it was busy all the time.
00:20:57
And I remember never forget one time a
00:20:59
young bloke by the name of Frank Rose in
00:21:01
my class said, "You want to come
00:21:02
around?" and you know his play date I
00:21:05
yeah I'll come around and went around
00:21:06
he's just up the up the road from us and
00:21:09
why is not a very very big place and we
00:21:11
drive in there and it's it was like if I
00:21:14
could explain the picture that you get
00:21:16
in your head it was like watching an
00:21:18
American movie where that that twotory
00:21:22
white picket fence in the house with a
00:21:23
nice driveway and you open the garage
00:21:25
with beautiful cars and bikes I used to
00:21:27
love bikes in the shed only picked mates
00:21:30
who had bikes I could go and take their
00:21:32
bikes
00:21:33
and cruise. Um, and I go in there and
00:21:36
and you know, carpet on the floor. Um,
00:21:40
just really really nice. Things are
00:21:42
nice, you know, like and and meal time
00:21:45
was nice and it was discussion and
00:21:47
commentary and and and all this stuff
00:21:50
and you go to sleep and you wake up in
00:21:52
the morning and go, "Man, that was
00:21:53
really really cool."
00:21:55
And then not long after that, I go down
00:21:58
to the freezing works um the way to the
00:22:01
University of Borthwicks and you're
00:22:03
sitting in there and and lo and behold,
00:22:05
but who should be working next to my
00:22:07
father but Frank Rose dead?
00:22:09
>> And I was the type of kid that looked at
00:22:11
things in pictures and went there's
00:22:13
something not right with this picture.
00:22:16
You know, is this guy's working with
00:22:18
next to my dad? Why are we in a state
00:22:20
home? um why have you got all those
00:22:23
beautiful things there? Your dad's
00:22:25
working with my dad,
00:22:26
>> you know, and from that early age was
00:22:29
when I sort of made the the decision
00:22:32
that there must be a different there
00:22:35
must be a different way than than the
00:22:36
way that I'm living. Um and and I just
00:22:40
sort of went on a I guess my another
00:22:42
journey where I had two sets of mates. I
00:22:45
had my Miy mates and I had my Parker
00:22:46
mates, you know. Um, and there was this
00:22:49
way of doing things um, with some of my
00:22:51
park and mildy mates and then this way
00:22:53
of doing things with some of my park and
00:22:54
mildy mates. And I was seeing both
00:22:57
spectrums of of being bored up. Um, and
00:23:01
I wrote in a diary a long time.
00:23:05
You know, I used to write a they call it
00:23:06
journaling now. Um, but I I used to call
00:23:08
it, you know, diary. And I used to have
00:23:10
this big red book. And I remember the
00:23:12
the the goal I was to have a two-story
00:23:15
home, you know, that I own and and you
00:23:19
know, I've built it and it's mine. And
00:23:21
it was from that earlier memory of going
00:23:23
to Frank Rose place. Um and so you know
00:23:27
from from that that moment for me um
00:23:31
there are certain periods in my life in
00:23:34
my football career that I can put a
00:23:36
picture to it and and that picture is so
00:23:40
strong um in my head that it became
00:23:44
belief
00:23:45
>> and then it became a goal and then it
00:23:47
became ticking boxes. You know what I
00:23:49
mean? and getting getting to this um
00:23:53
place where I said in my head there must
00:23:56
be something different.
00:23:58
>> Must be more to life.
00:24:01
>> Yeah. Like you know I always say you
00:24:03
know I'm see my dad was a tough bugger
00:24:06
you know he he um he ruled with an irist
00:24:09
you know I got so many hidings. I'm I'm
00:24:12
talking you know I'm not talking you
00:24:14
know I'm not talking out of shop here
00:24:16
because it's it happens you know there's
00:24:18
I'm not unique and you know a lot of our
00:24:20
our faro that that be brought up like
00:24:23
this are hiding was nothing you know one
00:24:25
time I threw a football through a window
00:24:27
practicing my I used to play halfback
00:24:29
you I was a little when I was tiny mate
00:24:31
you know it was I used to have long hair
00:24:33
down to my ass you know um no one called
00:24:36
me Tony my name was Mac and and and Mac
00:24:39
was shortened from smack because I used
00:24:41
always get a smack and and I was a tiny
00:24:44
little blondheaded whippet, you know,
00:24:45
cuz my my birth father was European and
00:24:49
my mom was Mai. So my dad was was full
00:24:52
Marty. So when I was looking at when
00:24:54
they're looking at our family, I'm
00:24:56
vanilla compared to my brothers and
00:24:58
sisters. Um but he bought me up like his
00:25:00
own and and you didn't do anything
00:25:02
wrong, mate. You know, like you you you
00:25:04
want something to [ __ ] cry about,
00:25:06
I'll give you something to cry about.
00:25:07
Now don't cry. So you get a crack and
00:25:09
then you I'm telling you don't cry. You
00:25:11
want something else to cry about. It was
00:25:13
that type of stuff. And remember
00:25:14
throwing a football through a window one
00:25:16
day practicing. I was playing halfback
00:25:18
and [ __ ] used to love rugby playing
00:25:20
halfback for the first 15s at school.
00:25:22
And then I was practicing Sid Gar used
00:25:24
to do that wrap around the back dive
00:25:26
pass, you know? So I'm practicing that
00:25:27
[ __ ] went through the window, didn't
00:25:29
it? In the house
00:25:30
>> and GL glass used to be really thin back
00:25:32
then. real mate. The thing with it, I
00:25:34
didn't notice this, but it was actually
00:25:36
I threw it that well that it went
00:25:38
through, but it it and it and it only
00:25:40
the glass took out you could tell was a
00:25:42
circle. I never picked that up. So, me
00:25:45
and my older fun brother Phil was home
00:25:48
and my sister was there and um we'd come
00:25:50
up with this. I knew I was going to get
00:25:52
a hiding if we didn't [ __ ] work this
00:25:53
out. So, dad gets home from work and
00:25:56
we'd made up the story that, you know, I
00:25:58
slammed the window and it broke. [ __ ]
00:26:00
Old man's obviously got out of the car,
00:26:01
taking one to look there's a circle in
00:26:02
there and said, "What's going on?" And
00:26:04
I've said, "Oh, I've slammed the
00:26:05
window." You know, and it broke. And he
00:26:07
went, "Okay." Said to Phil, "Hey, Phil,
00:26:10
what happened?" "Oh, sorry, uncle. Um,
00:26:14
he slammed the window." He goes, "My
00:26:17
sister, so Blackie, what happened?" And
00:26:20
she goes, "He threw the football through
00:26:21
it." Well, that was it. I got a I got a
00:26:23
towing, mate. I got an absolute bounced
00:26:25
around the the living room. And um the
00:26:29
worst thing about that was when when I
00:26:31
got a tallying and then he gives me some
00:26:34
change and says now he used to make me
00:26:35
run all the time you know get up to that
00:26:37
shop you got 5 minutes you get up there
00:26:38
dairy get some butter and get back here
00:26:39
don't be don't be I'm gone you're on the
00:26:41
clock and I used to always be on the
00:26:43
watch and off I went and and Kenna who
00:26:46
owned the Kenna Rogers who owned the
00:26:47
dairy up the road there knew that this
00:26:50
sort of [ __ ] was going on and I ran and
00:26:52
grabbed the butter and threw the change
00:26:53
at Kenna you know and he and and he's
00:26:56
still tell he's still alive But hey, he
00:26:57
still tells that story. Um, and I got
00:27:00
home and and the old man go, "Yep, just
00:27:02
in time." You know, just in time. And
00:27:04
um, I just, you know, when you when you
00:27:07
go through that sort of stuff, you know,
00:27:10
you you're sort of thinking,
00:27:13
you know, this although he was a really
00:27:16
tough man, my old man, and I read these
00:27:18
things about, you know, guys saying,
00:27:21
"Oh, you know, you're cowards for
00:27:22
beating your wife up and you're beating
00:27:23
your kids up and stuff like that." My
00:27:25
dad weren't a coward, you know what I
00:27:27
mean? He just didn't know any better. So
00:27:29
he he would tell us stories about him
00:27:32
being given a hiding and and and in my
00:27:36
head, my logical head was saying monkey
00:27:39
see, monkey do type thing. Um and my
00:27:42
picture was there must be a better way.
00:27:45
There's a different way. So um you know,
00:27:48
you you're sort of watching, you're
00:27:49
learning, you you're looking at all
00:27:52
these different habits. Um, you're
00:27:54
getting older and when I look when I
00:27:57
look, you know, my man my my my old man
00:27:59
was this really soft giant, you know,
00:28:01
you you Bud Spencer,
00:28:03
>> the comedian.
00:28:04
>> Bud Spencer, the Italian, he used to hit
00:28:07
people on the head with a with his fist.
00:28:09
>> Well, there was one my old man, you
00:28:10
know, anyone of whit the cops if they
00:28:12
had a problem, they couldn't get rid of
00:28:13
the the the issues and they call my old
00:28:15
man up, you know, he stand at the front
00:28:17
door said, "What the [ __ ] do you guys
00:28:18
want?" They used to [ __ ] draw straws
00:28:20
to go up and talk to him. He was that
00:28:22
guy, you know. So, um, but he was no, he
00:28:25
wasn't a coward, you know, he was just
00:28:28
bought up that way to
00:28:33
raise us the only way that he knew knew
00:28:35
how. And when my dad died at 41, me and
00:28:38
him were becoming really close. I I I
00:28:40
was actually because my pictures were
00:28:43
changing all the time. I was having
00:28:45
discussions with my father and and this
00:28:48
one of my biggest regrets was that he
00:28:50
died at 41 because um
00:28:52
>> How old were you at the time,
00:28:54
>> mate? I was I was 20. I was at
00:28:56
Newcastle. Um I got a phone call after
00:28:59
training one day. It broke my heart cuz
00:29:00
cuz I was building a relationship with
00:29:02
with my dad since I turned pro, you
00:29:05
know, cuz my dad and I'll tell you some
00:29:08
stories about the footy when we get to
00:29:09
there. But um my dad just wanted me to
00:29:12
be a Kiwi,
00:29:13
>> you know what I mean? So when I started
00:29:16
doing that and becoming that player and
00:29:18
that person, it was breaking down other
00:29:21
doors, you know, it was breaking down
00:29:22
other barriers between me and him. And
00:29:24
we were starting to talk to each other
00:29:26
and I and one of my biggest regrets is
00:29:28
not having the conversation with him is
00:29:30
why did you do all that stuff, you know,
00:29:32
cuz I think I think when you think about
00:29:34
it, he was 41, you know, and I was I was
00:29:37
getting into my 20s, so we weren't that
00:29:39
far apart,
00:29:41
>> you know. So, um, but you know, it it
00:29:44
taught me a lot, Dom, it taught me, you
00:29:46
know, one thing it it taught me the
00:29:50
there's not too many people I know that
00:29:51
that come from White Titter that aren't
00:29:53
tough, you know. So, you know, there's
00:29:55
there's that toughness that you've got
00:29:57
there. There's also um
00:30:00
that resilience that you've got from
00:30:03
that upbringing, you know. Um, but it
00:30:05
also it it also really cemented to me
00:30:09
about making sure um,
00:30:12
you know, you're going to have a chance
00:30:14
yourself to to to to model one day.
00:30:17
>> Um, when you have kids, how you going to
00:30:19
do that?
00:30:20
>> And you chose to break the cycle.
00:30:22
>> Yeah. Yeah. And they and and they talk
00:30:25
about that a lot. Um, so yeah, to to get
00:30:28
to that stage when you when you do
00:30:30
finally have kids, you know, and there
00:30:33
were and and there were habits that I
00:30:34
had to break, you know, there was some
00:30:35
some real habits and I still struggle
00:30:37
today with with a lot of them. Um, but
00:30:40
it's in, you know, it's a DNA trait that
00:30:42
you picked up and you've been given and
00:30:43
you live with it for so long and then
00:30:46
>> what like like anger or something?
00:30:48
>> Uh, yeah, anger. An you know, obviously
00:30:51
anger have lots of anger issues, you
00:30:53
know. I was I was always, you know,
00:30:56
well, jeez, I'd probably have more than
00:30:58
250 games if I didn't get sent off so
00:31:00
many times, you know. Um, but, you know,
00:31:03
you just you just never back you never
00:31:04
back down like
00:31:06
>> and you always
00:31:09
I was the type of guy that if you wanted
00:31:10
to pick a fight, then okay, well,
00:31:12
whether whether it's going to finish
00:31:14
today or it's going to finish in 5 years
00:31:16
time, I was probably the worst break to
00:31:18
pick it cuz I would never let it go. Um
00:31:21
um but there's reasoning behind some of
00:31:23
that too is why I'm you know I've done
00:31:26
some of the things in my life that I've
00:31:27
done. Um because I don't want my kids to
00:31:31
have to continue that trait.
00:31:36
>> What impact does it have on a child
00:31:38
seeing like seeing your mom get get
00:31:39
beaten up by your dad?
00:31:42
>> Oh, it's traum it's traumatic,
00:31:45
you know. It's um
00:31:49
it's it's hard to describe, you know,
00:31:51
like like this, you know, it's the the
00:31:54
the sound of of skin, you know, and
00:31:58
collision, you know, it's I play I
00:32:00
played a sport where the sound of skin
00:32:02
and collision was actually inspiring for
00:32:04
me when I when I used to run into people
00:32:06
and bits and pieces like that. But when
00:32:08
it's, you know, your your parents
00:32:10
fighting and and you're young at a young
00:32:12
age watching that type of stuff, um,
00:32:15
it's traumatic, you know, and and again,
00:32:17
like in 2013 when that all came tumbling
00:32:20
down, that that wall came tumbling down,
00:32:22
it was something that I had to deal
00:32:23
with. They I got diagnosed with PTSD.
00:32:25
>> Um, and it was all around watching my
00:32:27
dad beat my mom up, you know. So, and I
00:32:30
always thought it was I had a hatred for
00:32:32
my father, but I I it was actually
00:32:34
worked out that it was for my mother,
00:32:36
>> cuz my mother was a little bit like me,
00:32:39
you know? She would she would say, "Come
00:32:41
on, then kill me." You know what I mean?
00:32:43
And I'd be yelling out, "No, stop." And
00:32:45
she'd be going, "No, no." And I'd be
00:32:47
saying, "Stop, Mom. Stop." You know, "Be
00:32:50
quiet." And she would continue to say
00:32:51
it. And of course in my head I couldn't
00:32:54
put it together over the years until
00:32:57
later on when Emma said to me, "It's
00:32:59
actually not your dad, it's your mom."
00:33:02
>> You know, so um it's I wouldn't wish it
00:33:05
on any kid to be brutally honest. Um
00:33:08
there's, you know, talking to talking to
00:33:11
young people now and and you know,
00:33:13
watching,
00:33:16
you know, what's going on in society. Um
00:33:18
especially how tough it is for some of
00:33:19
our um you know that I think people
00:33:24
actually miss the bigger picture,
00:33:27
you know, of like
00:33:29
school for me, I love school, you know,
00:33:32
I hated education,
00:33:33
>> but from 9 till 3:00 it was my escape. M
00:33:37
>> you know and if we we had a great sports
00:33:39
team I was in it didn't matter summer or
00:33:42
winter anything remember remember them I
00:33:44
never never I'll play cricket at primary
00:33:46
school but not game cricket you know
00:33:49
what I mean they said oh you want to
00:33:50
come play cricket I was yeah man just
00:33:52
give me a bat
00:33:54
um but but that school that schooling
00:33:56
thing for me was such a a relief you
00:33:59
know because you just sort of got away
00:34:00
you got away you got to hang out with
00:34:02
your mates you got to play sport um yeah
00:34:05
and you and you got to see things
00:34:06
differently through, you know, different
00:34:09
ways that other people lived. Um,
00:34:11
>> and a lot of those guys still today,
00:34:13
they're, you know, my best mates. You
00:34:15
know, they they sort of knew what was
00:34:17
going on. Um, they've helped me out a
00:34:21
lot in my career and and I'm one of
00:34:22
those BS like like many of us that could
00:34:24
have gone either way, you know, but for
00:34:26
a couple of conversations, a couple of
00:34:28
pictures being built in my head that I
00:34:30
went, "Oh, actually, yeah, no, I can do
00:34:31
that."
00:34:32
>> Um, yeah. And and it's um yeah, it's a
00:34:37
it's it's
00:34:39
interesting talking about it cuz it's
00:34:40
the first time that I've really had the
00:34:43
courage, I think, to to say, "Oh [ __ ]
00:34:45
man. You don't." And I've said this to a
00:34:48
couple of guys. I said, "You don't know
00:34:49
me from a [ __ ] bar or so."
00:34:52
>> So, you know, be really careful what you
00:34:54
say. All right? Cuz I haven't told
00:34:56
anyone, you know, and the other thing
00:34:59
with that, too, is that people see me as
00:35:01
that footballer. So when I do get big
00:35:03
and aggressive and scary, um, they go
00:35:06
that [ __ ] footballer guy, you know,
00:35:08
>> brash, loud mouth.
00:35:09
>> I know. Yeah. But but they don't they
00:35:10
don't really know me, you know? They
00:35:12
don't they don't know the things that I
00:35:13
done. I bought bought bought my first
00:35:15
business at 19 in Newcastle. Bought a
00:35:17
valet business.
00:35:18
>> Um, I call it cafe here in Oakland. I
00:35:21
had one of those in Newcastle. Um, I've
00:35:23
had childcare centers in retirement, you
00:35:25
know, developed a retirement license um
00:35:27
for a village. um you know owned my own
00:35:30
carard you know sort of um been a
00:35:33
general manager being a CEO you know so
00:35:36
there's this other side to me that a lot
00:35:38
of people don't know about written
00:35:39
programs for Ministry of Foreign Affairs
00:35:41
uh and sport you know dealt with most of
00:35:43
the politicians and and the mo and and
00:35:46
you know just had a chat to Shane Jones
00:35:48
yesterday uh two days ago up in
00:35:50
Kittykitty you know what I mean like
00:35:52
>> you you're sort of you're meeting and
00:35:54
greeting people along the way and you're
00:35:56
developing all these skills and then all
00:35:58
of a sudden people say, "Oh, you just
00:35:59
say football guy, but bro, you don't
00:36:01
know me."
00:36:02
>> No, it's the same with any with anyone
00:36:04
you see. You don't know the backstory.
00:36:06
You don't know the scars they've got on
00:36:07
their back. You don't know anything
00:36:08
about them. Um, yeah, Jeez, we've been
00:36:10
here for 36 minutes. We've hardly talked
00:36:12
about we haven't actually talked about
00:36:14
sport at all yet. Is is is this tough
00:36:16
for you to talk about this stuff? Uh, I
00:36:19
think I think it's, you know, like I
00:36:20
said to you, I've I've had many people
00:36:24
know that there's something there and
00:36:25
asked me to come on their podcast, but I
00:36:27
haven't really been ready. You know, I
00:36:28
did a I did an article in in um a
00:36:33
magazine with Dale Husband where I sort
00:36:35
of talked a little bit about my mental
00:36:36
health.
00:36:37
>> Um, but not really the the mechanic
00:36:40
behind it, you know. Uh, and it is
00:36:42
tough. It is tough, you know, like
00:36:44
there's that stigma, what are you saying
00:36:46
that for? and don't say that and blah
00:36:48
blah blah. But, you know, for anything,
00:36:51
it's more for me to be able to say,
00:36:52
"Hey, man." Like, you know, I'm actually
00:36:54
quite um
00:36:58
I'm quite proud that I've had the
00:37:00
opportunity to get it off my chest,
00:37:02
>> you know. Um
00:37:04
>> Well, none of this was your fault.
00:37:06
>> No. And and and I don't want I don't
00:37:08
want my kids to bear it, you know, like
00:37:10
if I I don't want that trauma to be
00:37:11
passed down. I want it to be
00:37:13
acknowledged.
00:37:14
>> You know, I love my dad, you know. I
00:37:16
>> Yeah. How How do you
00:37:18
>> I do I love him. I you know I go and
00:37:20
visit him where he's buried up in photoy
00:37:22
all the time. You know, I'm going to
00:37:23
take my brother up there. We're going to
00:37:24
go and you know, his grave's a little
00:37:25
bit messy at the moment. We're going to
00:37:26
go and sort that out.
00:37:28
>> Um but I saw who he was. You know what I
00:37:30
mean? I experienced who he was, but I
00:37:32
actually saw beneath that before he died
00:37:35
that there was a a big gentle man in
00:37:37
there. Um,
00:37:40
and again with my mom, you know, like
00:37:44
there's a there's another saying is that
00:37:45
some sometimes you just can't change
00:37:47
people.
00:37:49
>> So don't waste your time.
00:37:50
>> You know what I mean? And I always
00:37:51
thought that I could change my mom, but
00:37:53
>> my mom is what you get from my mom today
00:37:55
at 80 85 is what you got at 20. I'll
00:37:58
tell you another story about that. My
00:38:00
mom lost a plot and and and we were
00:38:02
living up in Nonadi in Faraday at the
00:38:04
time. I was I would have been between
00:38:06
the ages of five or six. My mom went on
00:38:08
a bender for 3 days
00:38:09
>> and I had a brother who was just started
00:38:11
school and two sisters, one was in
00:38:13
nappies. Um, and she was gone and and I
00:38:16
was left there to look after these kids
00:38:18
in a state home with one room. So, we
00:38:20
had one room and there was a lovely lady
00:38:23
there that helped me. But I would put
00:38:25
the kids down, take my brother to
00:38:27
school, change my change my younger
00:38:29
sister's nappy, um put them down in the
00:38:31
room, and then I'd go hunting for my mom
00:38:33
who's out out, you know, obviously she
00:38:35
was in a bad mental space and try and
00:38:37
find where she's at. Um and that was
00:38:40
just sort of that was life, you know,
00:38:42
and when I when when I reflect on it
00:38:44
now, like another time, you know, I'm
00:38:47
going swimming in a in a water hole up
00:38:49
in Tikipunga. Um, and my family's there
00:38:52
and I'm out there and having heaps of
00:38:53
heaps of fun with Fimana and up here and
00:38:56
and Poto and and I come out of the water
00:38:58
like 3:00 in the afternoon and I'm in
00:39:00
Mubbies and where's where's where's my
00:39:02
family and they've gone oh they're gone
00:39:05
ticky pong and they live in white and I
00:39:07
said what do you mean they're gone and
00:39:08
oh they're gone you're staying with us
00:39:10
and I was in I can vividly remember
00:39:12
sitting in the back of a car in my wet
00:39:13
shorts like it wasn't here's a bag you
00:39:16
know I'm going to pick you up next week
00:39:18
I was at that house for 3 months
00:39:20
Um, so when I when I reflect on it and
00:39:23
look back at it, it's like, well, like
00:39:26
could you imagine a six-year-old doing
00:39:28
that, you know, like, hey, we're just
00:39:30
going to leave you there. Don't don't
00:39:32
worry about anything. We'll come back
00:39:33
and pick up in 6 months or, hey, I'm
00:39:35
just going to go and party for three
00:39:36
nights. Can you look after these three
00:39:38
siblings of yours and your and your six?
00:39:41
Um, but for me it was sort of, you know,
00:39:44
uh, in my head when I look back on it, I
00:39:49
always thought that I was older, you
00:39:50
know, I was like, I must have been
00:39:52
older. But when you go back and you put
00:39:54
the the dots together, well, I didn't
00:39:56
move down to white till one,
00:39:59
>> you know what I mean? So, I must have
00:40:00
been five or six when I was doing that.
00:40:03
Um, and there's all of those timelines
00:40:05
for me that when we're talking about
00:40:07
this now, it's just a trigger in my head
00:40:08
going, "Oh, yeah, you remember that?"
00:40:10
Um, but it sort of, you know, at the end
00:40:13
of the day, Dom, I guess that's what
00:40:15
makes you is all those experience.
00:40:18
>> It still doesn't make it right and it's
00:40:19
unbelievably sad.
00:40:21
>> Like, do how did you not end like when
00:40:23
you had kids of your own? How did like
00:40:24
how did you not like reflect on your own
00:40:26
childhood and go actually that was
00:40:28
really [ __ ] up and end up with a real
00:40:29
chip on your shoulder against your old
00:40:30
man?
00:40:32
>> Yeah. Um I look I' I'd have words to my
00:40:36
father you know in times when I you know
00:40:38
I' you know why did you do that you know
00:40:41
why do why do I have to behave like that
00:40:43
you know like you know you I think some
00:40:46
of your your emotions and your your
00:40:48
traits that you pick up from that type
00:40:50
of behavior um it's taken me a long long
00:40:53
time to get rid of those jealousy
00:40:55
>> hatred anger you know those really tough
00:40:58
emotions um which I found were only
00:41:01
really short emotions you know, cuz cuz
00:41:03
love, empathy, um monarchy, you know,
00:41:07
they they are long um sort of longer
00:41:13
affected emotions. Um and and and the
00:41:16
other thing too is, you know,
00:41:19
I I couldn't I couldn't hate him. I
00:41:22
could I couldn't hate him. I cuz I in my
00:41:25
head he was teaching me lessons that I
00:41:29
now look back at um and I can tell you a
00:41:32
football lesson
00:41:34
um that sort of got me on my journey and
00:41:36
have got me to where I am today. You
00:41:38
know, one thing I didn't want to to be
00:41:40
was raise my kids in a state home.
00:41:43
>> You know, I we had no money. You know, I
00:41:46
I remember, you know, I was the gun
00:41:48
footballer in all the football teams,
00:41:50
you know. Um, some Saturday mornings I'd
00:41:52
get up, my mom and dad had been out all
00:41:54
night and and I'd just have to get
00:41:56
myself to to the car to get down to
00:41:58
Stratford or somewhere like that. And I
00:41:59
remember coming back one time and just
00:42:02
wishing that the father doesn't stop his
00:42:03
car to get a pie because that's what the
00:42:05
kids did, you know, like you played your
00:42:06
game and then you stop and you cuz I had
00:42:08
no money, you know what I mean?
00:42:10
>> So these kids would jump out and get
00:42:13
pies and one of one of the fathers would
00:42:16
look at me and go, "Oh, you know, here
00:42:18
boy, give me a dollar. and I'd go in,
00:42:21
get the pie, go, "Fuck, thank God." Like
00:42:23
that. But there'd be other times when
00:42:24
I'd sit there and I just go, "Fuck, what
00:42:26
am I going to do?" Like, "I can't I
00:42:27
can't get out of the car." Um, but I,
00:42:30
you know, it was it that was my life and
00:42:34
it was something that when you look back
00:42:36
at, you know, it it was our life, you
00:42:40
know, and I'm and I'm I'm not talking
00:42:42
this I'm not this is not unique, you
00:42:44
know. This is what what is I think
00:42:47
becoming more unique is people wanting
00:42:49
to get out of that life, you know, and
00:42:51
doing something about it. Um, and I I
00:42:54
can tell you a story like when I was we
00:42:57
went to a tournament down in Christ
00:42:58
Church and
00:43:00
uh I was in the under 15 side for
00:43:02
Tatanaki. My dad, you know, he he love
00:43:05
my dad told guys when I was in Fad
00:43:08
playing up at Eastern Suburbs, he's
00:43:09
going to be an all black one day. You
00:43:10
should have picked him in your team. you
00:43:11
know, he was that
00:43:13
>> believer that I could play footy, you
00:43:15
know. Um, but I went down to Christ
00:43:17
Church and, you know, Nitro was playing
00:43:19
and all these all these Oaklanders
00:43:21
jumped out jumped off the the bus and an
00:43:23
Oakland player there in his jersey with
00:43:25
a mustache and a cigarette on 15, you
00:43:27
know. I'm thinking, [ __ ] what am I
00:43:28
doing here? You know, I'm I'm I was
00:43:30
tiny. I'm long hair. I was playing half
00:43:33
back. I would have been 35 kilos, 40
00:43:36
kilos. um ringing wet and got talled up
00:43:39
in this under 13 tournament, under 15
00:43:41
tournament, but I was 12 turning 13.
00:43:44
Yeah. So after that tournament, the old
00:43:47
man says for the whole year, anywhere we
00:43:50
went, cousins, family members, friends,
00:43:52
that's my boy. He's going to go to
00:43:54
Australia next year with the Australian
00:43:56
school boys. And in my head, I'm going,
00:43:58
what the [ __ ] are you talking about?
00:44:00
Look, I've just been to this tournament.
00:44:01
They're giants. You know, the [ __ ]
00:44:03
bloke leaning on the post, Lafu, I said,
00:44:06
who's that father? He's [ __ ] a
00:44:07
player. I said, I'm never going to get
00:44:08
to that size, you know. And he would say
00:44:11
relentlessly to no matter who came up to
00:44:14
him, that's my son. He will go to
00:44:16
Australia next year with the New Zealand
00:44:19
school boys. So, we get and it just so
00:44:22
happened in that 13 14 year that I grew
00:44:24
a little bit and we go to the tournament
00:44:26
and I play my play my heart out because
00:44:29
my dad said I'm going for Australia and
00:44:31
make the southern zone and we beat
00:44:32
Northern Zone and they name the team.
00:44:35
They don't name me. And I cry, break
00:44:38
down in Monaco rugby league rooms in
00:44:40
front of everyone cuz my heart's broken
00:44:42
cuz my dad had his heart set on me
00:44:44
playing for the school boy Kiwis. And
00:44:46
he's looked over at me. Kate, shut up.
00:44:49
Come here. You know, like that. I've
00:44:50
walked over to him. He
00:44:52
>> put my head on his shoulders, you know,
00:44:53
and he said, "Oh, you're in. It's just
00:44:55
that I had long hair." And he said, "Oh,
00:44:57
we've got to cut your hair." Cuz they
00:44:59
said they can't get into any leagues,
00:45:00
which is [ __ ] You can't get into
00:45:02
leagues clubs with long hair. Yeah. Um,
00:45:06
so the power of the picture again when I
00:45:09
when I look back on things is that, you
00:45:12
know, this this man that was such a
00:45:15
tough bugger was actually giving me
00:45:19
belief, you know, which which I've had
00:45:21
ever since. And I've taken that um train
00:45:25
of thought and in most things that I've
00:45:27
done and gone and built the picture and
00:45:29
built the goal and the vision and gone,
00:45:31
okay, well, this is where I'm at. this
00:45:33
is what I want to do with it and try to
00:45:35
get to that next step.
00:45:37
>> And that's where my football career
00:45:38
started. So, um, a lot of people when
00:45:42
they say, "What's your football career
00:45:43
like?" You know, like, "Well, I made
00:45:44
every New Zealand team under the sun
00:45:45
from the age of 15. So, I played 15s
00:45:48
when I was 14. I captained the 15 school
00:45:50
boys the following year. I made the 17s
00:45:52
two years in a row from 15 16. Then I
00:45:54
made the junior Kiwis at 16, 17, 18. And
00:45:58
then I went straight into the Kiwi side.
00:46:00
So, you know, my career journey um from
00:46:05
that, hey, he's going to play for the
00:46:06
school boys the following year every
00:46:09
single year after that was was picking
00:46:11
up a black jersey. Um and and again that
00:46:15
you know that that
00:46:18
journey to go to professional um in my
00:46:22
15th
00:46:24
so I went to Australia for that 15
00:46:26
jersey that he he said and paramed my
00:46:29
favorite team Ray Price Eric Growth Eric
00:46:31
Growth was my favorite player um Mick
00:46:33
Cronin's Peter Sterling Paul Taylor at
00:46:35
the back Steve Ella could name them and
00:46:37
and I remember I remember dreaming but I
00:46:40
was just about to kick off for param.
00:46:41
Mom woke me up. I was 12. [ __ ] what
00:46:42
are you doing, mom? [ __ ] I'm just about
00:46:44
to kick off a paramedic. That's how
00:46:46
strong this picture was in my head. And
00:46:48
um but I I ended up on the hill in par
00:46:50
in Krenella in the Krenella Hill when I
00:46:54
went over as a 14-year-old with the New
00:46:55
Zealand school boys and our bullet took
00:46:58
us to Kronella Paramea game and I was
00:46:59
just couldn't wait to see Paramea. But
00:47:02
I'm watching these two Kronella dudes
00:47:04
rag doll blossom.
00:47:06
I mean I mean like it's you you know
00:47:08
those cartoons where they pick someone
00:47:10
up by the back of the collar and they're
00:47:11
going
00:47:13
smacking them over like that and I was
00:47:15
sitting there going who the [ __ ] are
00:47:17
those two like that? Find out they're
00:47:20
Curt and Dane Sorenson.
00:47:21
>> Yeah. And they're from New Zealand. And
00:47:24
that moment that moment the bullet said
00:47:27
to me that that's Curt and Dane
00:47:28
Sorenson. They're from New Zealand. I
00:47:30
went that's what I want to do. M
00:47:32
>> and I was 14 and I was standing on the
00:47:34
hill and I remember I remember going
00:47:36
back to school at high school Mr. heard
00:47:38
a um rest of s math teacher said to me,
00:47:41
Kemp, I I was a little bit naughty at
00:47:44
school and got quite a few of the camp
00:47:47
listen here type thing. Um and he he
00:47:50
said to me, Kemp, what are you going to
00:47:51
do when you grow up? You know, giving me
00:47:53
the you know, if you don't do your math,
00:47:54
you're not going to have anything. And I
00:47:56
said, I'm going to go and play
00:47:57
professional rugby league. And he said,
00:47:59
you're a dreamer.
00:48:01
>> And it actually stuck with me. And I and
00:48:04
I was like, yeah, I'm [ __ ] dreaming
00:48:05
about that all the time. You know what I
00:48:07
mean? And to and to his benefit, Mr.
00:48:09
Cur, I ran back into him down at the
00:48:10
freezing works in the butcher shop. Oh,
00:48:12
in my 20s, early 20s, and he actually
00:48:15
come up to me and he said, "Oh, you made
00:48:16
it." And I said, "Yep." I said, "I told
00:48:19
you I was going to be a professional
00:48:20
sportsman." Um, but yeah, that's that
00:48:24
sort of period there when I was growing
00:48:26
up and building, you know, where I
00:48:28
wanted to be. Yeah. I could actually,
00:48:31
like I said to you right at the
00:48:32
beginning of the conversation, I could
00:48:33
actually put that picture and that time
00:48:37
in that spot and I still remember it,
00:48:40
you know, thank God I haven't got CTE.
00:48:42
>> You you you you mentioned um earlier
00:48:45
that you you were like goal setting or
00:48:47
journaling. Um where did that come from?
00:48:49
Like a moldy a moldy teenager from
00:48:51
Waitra in the 1980s. It seems pretty out
00:48:54
there.
00:48:55
>> Who who taught you who taught you how to
00:48:56
do that or where did that idea come
00:48:57
from? A lot of it, a lot of it came cuz
00:48:59
I would I I was a dreamer mate. I like I
00:49:03
we got a place down there where our
00:49:04
rugby league club is in Clifton Park. Um
00:49:06
it's a it's our forefathers had this
00:49:09
wonderful idea to put our rug rugby
00:49:11
league club up there. Um and it's the
00:49:13
biggest it's right opposite the high
00:49:15
school. It's the biggest green space
00:49:17
down there in in WA and you can play all
00:49:20
your sport there, you know. So we played
00:49:21
our touch, our softball, our league, um
00:49:24
all of our school sports on this field.
00:49:26
I used to go down there and lie. I I I
00:49:29
love the dark, so I used to go down
00:49:30
there at night and lie there with my
00:49:32
take my dog down and lie down there and
00:49:34
just look up at the stars and just
00:49:35
dream, you know. And then I started I
00:49:38
just started journaling, you know. And
00:49:40
back in those days, journaling started
00:49:41
when you were in intermediate when they
00:49:44
the girls would give you those journals
00:49:46
and and it was about you, you know, and
00:49:47
they and they'd write the questions and
00:49:50
it would say, "What's your name? What's
00:49:51
your nickname? Where do you live? What
00:49:53
do you want to do? um Who's Your
00:49:56
Girlfriend? Dada, all that sort of
00:49:57
stuff. You know, it was these books that
00:49:58
they'd hand out. And so I sort of went,
00:50:02
well, [ __ ] I'm just going to write my
00:50:03
own. And I would just write down things
00:50:05
inside my own journal. And I'd write
00:50:09
about the girl I was seeing, you know
00:50:10
what I mean? Um about the sports teams,
00:50:13
about [ __ ] my dad, you know, I've got
00:50:15
this training. I trained for the junior
00:50:18
black black socks um alongside Johnny
00:50:21
Lomax and Mark Roberts and Dean Rice and
00:50:23
them cuz I was a good softballer too
00:50:26
>> and I remember I was just training too
00:50:27
hard you know I had [ __ ] league to do
00:50:28
I was playing first 15 I had the
00:50:30
softball training I remember journaling
00:50:31
all that stuff and I'm just burning
00:50:32
myself out here um but what that what
00:50:37
happened from there was then people
00:50:39
would say something to me and I would
00:50:42
put it into writing okay and and I just
00:50:45
knew do that, you know, I'll write this
00:50:48
down so I can go back and have a look at
00:50:49
it. Um, and it wasn't just sport, it was
00:50:52
life, you know, I don't want to do this
00:50:54
or I want to do this or whatever. Um,
00:50:57
just processing your thoughts and and
00:50:59
that was basically it. And it was for me
00:51:01
to look back on it and I'll tell you
00:51:02
I'll tell you a funny story about
00:51:03
there's two stories to that. One one of
00:51:05
them is my best mate Bruce Sherik. I was
00:51:07
going down to see a girl one night. Um,
00:51:10
it was was a school night was was uh,
00:51:13
sorry, it was a Saturday night and it it
00:51:16
was me heading down to to her place to
00:51:18
see her to have a bit of fun and he
00:51:21
pulls up beside me. He was a first 15
00:51:22
captain and I was a half back. He was
00:51:24
second 5'8 in the first 15 of school and
00:51:26
we sort of knew we were we were friends
00:51:28
but we weren't friends you know what I
00:51:30
mean like he was a bit of a buffhead you
00:51:32
know the size of Bruce was you know he's
00:51:34
not a very big man but he was that size
00:51:36
at school so he's a big man for his age
00:51:37
at that he's got a big head um made him
00:51:41
look bigger um but he he sort of pulled
00:51:45
up in his in his old man's Holden youth
00:51:48
I think it was he winds a window down
00:51:51
just outside the mid eye there and he
00:51:52
says what are you doing I said I'm just
00:51:53
going and, you know, had a bit of fun.
00:51:55
He said, "Oh, why don't you come to a
00:51:56
party with me?" And I ended up jumping
00:51:58
in the car with him and and I had a had
00:52:02
an absolute ball, you know, he's a
00:52:04
[ __ ] great character, good fun. And
00:52:06
and from that moment on, we became best
00:52:09
mates. But that night was really
00:52:11
defining for me because he looked at me
00:52:13
and he said to me, we're driving home,
00:52:14
he said, "What are you [ __ ] doing?"
00:52:17
You know, he said, "You can play, man.
00:52:19
You can play. It's your ticket." you
00:52:22
know, come on, knuckle down. He was he
00:52:24
was he's an agent now, but he was so he
00:52:27
was saying way back then, knuckle down,
00:52:28
you can make it. He he could see it in
00:52:30
me. So, that was another one of the
00:52:33
those those pictures, but I put that in
00:52:35
my diary. And and from that p that
00:52:39
moment on, then the diary started to
00:52:42
change. It started to go, "Right, well,
00:52:43
what can I get out of this?" Um, and if
00:52:46
I if I take that moment, so that moment
00:52:49
I was 15 and I take it to sitting out at
00:52:52
Coatsville
00:52:54
and he got a got a got a um block out of
00:52:56
Coat when I came back to coach the
00:52:58
Warriors. I'd bought a piece of land out
00:52:59
there building my home and I'm ready
00:53:02
open up a box that we had in storage and
00:53:04
I pull out here's my journal. I see this
00:53:06
journal of 15 and inside this journal I
00:53:09
said it goes um
00:53:12
I want to be a professional sportsman
00:53:14
when I finish. I want to I want to own a
00:53:15
two-story home on my own piece of land.
00:53:17
I don't want the bank to own it. I want
00:53:19
to have two kids and I want to be happy.
00:53:22
And guess what? When I open that box up
00:53:24
was when we were taking the furniture
00:53:27
out to put in the house that I just
00:53:28
built out of Coatville and both my kids
00:53:30
were at Coatville Primary School.
00:53:33
>> How was that? Was that emotional?
00:53:35
>> Well, it was the power of goal setting.
00:53:38
It was the power of pitches that it was
00:53:40
like I put that in a box at you know at
00:53:44
15 16 when I went on my journey cuz I
00:53:46
went to Wellington first and ended up in
00:53:48
Newcastle then to England. It sat in a
00:53:50
it sat in that box for that long and
00:53:53
then we pulled it out and I started
00:53:54
reading it and I was like whoa I
00:53:57
actually I actually wrote what was
00:54:00
actually going to happen. So, you know,
00:54:02
I talk to a lot of kids about that,
00:54:03
about the power of mindset. Um, you
00:54:06
know, and and the and the power of
00:54:08
belief and the power of putting it down
00:54:09
and and I still have my own vision board
00:54:11
today, which is, you know, always
00:54:13
changing cuz they change a hell of a lot
00:54:15
quicker these days than they they were
00:54:16
when you're a kid.
00:54:18
>> Um,
00:54:18
>> what's on it today?
00:54:21
>> Oh, it's a it's a freedom is one of my
00:54:23
signs on it. You know, freedom is, you
00:54:26
know, the ability to do what you want
00:54:28
when you want, how you want. Um, and all
00:54:32
the things around that are what I'm
00:54:33
currently doing, you know. So, I'm I'm
00:54:36
developing a 70acre property up in
00:54:37
Kittykitty at the moment. Um, we're
00:54:40
buying investments, you know, that will
00:54:42
put us in a position that we when we go
00:54:44
to sell them that we can actually enjoy
00:54:46
the last piece of our life, you know
00:54:48
what I mean? But I don't want to be that
00:54:50
guy in the cemetery that's got
00:54:51
everything and leaves it to everyone.
00:54:53
>> Yeah.
00:54:53
>> You know what I mean? I want to be a guy
00:54:55
that is happy
00:54:57
>> as you get older. Um especially with my
00:54:59
body too because the other thing that
00:55:01
rugby league gave me is a puckoo body.
00:55:03
Um
00:55:04
>> what does puckadoo mean?
00:55:06
>> Broken.
00:55:06
>> Oh, is it is it broken? You look great
00:55:09
shape.
00:55:09
>> Yeah. Well, I I I keep moving. I think
00:55:11
moving movement is really important. I
00:55:13
could I could be doing a bit more. Um
00:55:15
but I've had a really bad run with my
00:55:17
knees lately and um as you can see, I
00:55:18
got a couple of things in my hands from
00:55:21
carpal tunnel um bits and pieces. But
00:55:24
yeah, I I always knew Dom, you know,
00:55:25
like when you finish playing footy that
00:55:27
I was going to pay the price, you know,
00:55:29
and I people say, "What would you do
00:55:30
differently?" Well, I wouldn't do
00:55:31
nothing differently around the footy,
00:55:33
but around the injuries, I would have,
00:55:34
you know, I I I wish we had the the um
00:55:40
care, medical care that they've got
00:55:42
today that that we never had back in our
00:55:44
days.
00:55:44
>> Yeah.
00:55:45
>> And that's a whole new story, that one.
00:55:48
>> Yes. So, so you moved to Australia to
00:55:50
play for um this brand new club called
00:55:52
the Newcastle Knights when you were 18.
00:55:54
Um this is pre- internet as well. This
00:55:55
is when phone calls were like $11 a
00:55:57
minute or something. What was that like
00:55:59
going from White to Newcastle
00:56:01
Wellington? I went to Wellington. So I I
00:56:04
pulled in the car with the old man and I
00:56:05
and I said to him, "I'm going to
00:56:06
Wellington. How ty took me down there.
00:56:09
Um he went down there as a coach and and
00:56:11
Newcastle came to Hutre one night to to
00:56:14
look at Sam Stewart um who was their
00:56:16
inaugural captain for the Knights. great
00:56:18
bloke Sammy. Um he he was sort of a
00:56:20
father figure to me not only at Randwick
00:56:22
in Wellington but when I went to
00:56:24
Newcastle and when I found out that they
00:56:26
were coming to to look at Sammy.
00:56:29
I put as much linen on my legs as
00:56:31
possible in a headband so that they
00:56:33
would notice me and and I actually had a
00:56:35
shocker that night was against Leon so I
00:56:37
tried to chip over Fetu Henry who was
00:56:39
6'8 and when he put his hands up he was
00:56:41
7'2
00:56:43
caught the ball score in the corner but
00:56:44
but the the chairman at the time said
00:56:46
yeah we'll take Sammy and we'll have
00:56:48
that idiot that keeps trying things out
00:56:50
there can't pull it off which was me and
00:56:52
that's how I ended up at Newcastle and
00:56:54
then we devised the rookie scheme um and
00:56:57
wrote it to the New Zealand Rugby League
00:56:59
And I always had this mindset that if I
00:57:02
get to Australia, I'm never coming home,
00:57:04
>> you know. So, we developed the rookie
00:57:06
scheme to get to Australia. Um, once I
00:57:09
got there, I I took up the the New
00:57:11
Zealand Rugby League and in a in a
00:57:13
battle of the court case, took the high
00:57:14
court and then and took him a call for
00:57:16
Australia Trade, which is actually my
00:57:18
son's a lawyer. Um, when he went down to
00:57:20
do law down in Denedan, the teacher
00:57:22
said, "Oh, you're not related to that
00:57:24
Tony Kemp." And then and Noah goes,
00:57:26
"Yeah, that's my dad." and he goes, "Oh,
00:57:27
do you think he'll come down?" We
00:57:29
actually do contract law on his case um
00:57:31
back in '89 against the New Zealand
00:57:33
Rugby League. So, um, yeah, did that and
00:57:37
and went to Newcastle and
00:57:40
like I love Newcastle, you know, like I
00:57:43
I I can still remember my very first
00:57:46
carry in first grade um and getting
00:57:49
absolutely coat hangered by Kerry
00:57:51
Hemsley um in that great Balain side
00:57:54
that went on to play in the final that
00:57:56
year against CRA. Um, but yeah, it's
00:57:59
just it was like the final pieces of the
00:58:03
jigsaw puzzle when I was standing on
00:58:05
that hill in Cornell coming together
00:58:08
>> and then I can still smell the jersey
00:58:10
when I put it on, you know, and running
00:58:12
out and even though they they've got a
00:58:14
picture of that tackle from Kerry
00:58:16
Hensley in my first carry
00:58:18
>> um just going man this is this is it.
00:58:22
you know, you've you've you've got to
00:58:24
that that stage and um I spent six years
00:58:27
at Newcastle um and six wonderful years
00:58:30
and you know, went to the finals a
00:58:32
couple of times. We didn't quite win
00:58:33
anything. Um I always said that
00:58:35
Newcastle win a grand final in the first
00:58:37
10 years and they won it on their 10th
00:58:38
year.
00:58:39
>> Um but I've got some some great memories
00:58:41
there, great people. Um got to mentor
00:58:44
Joey John's. Um he mentions that in his
00:58:47
book. I think he um one one of my
00:58:50
friends told me and and Matty John's uh
00:58:52
was a good mate of mine too and he was
00:58:54
he was a neighbor and he actually last
00:58:56
year sent me a text and said um hey
00:58:58
Kempy I just wanted to thank you mate
00:59:00
for you know always giving me some time
00:59:03
you know when I was there cuz none of
00:59:04
the other BS would a few [ __ ] there
00:59:07
at the time too but um
00:59:08
>> just culture of the time. Yeah, it was
00:59:10
just Well, mate, it it was it was, you
00:59:12
know, got I got called a black [ __ ] so
00:59:14
many times over there. I was like,
00:59:15
"Fuck, mate. You guys have got a tan
00:59:17
that's darker than me." Um, but yeah, it
00:59:20
was it was it was it was a funny it was
00:59:22
a funny time. Talking about that Mark
00:59:23
Graham story, you know, like Mark Graham
00:59:26
is the best player that we've had in
00:59:28
this country, you know what I mean? And
00:59:29
and I remember coming up the stairs in
00:59:31
North Sydney and and it was like it was
00:59:34
like a god, you know what I mean? Like
00:59:37
here I am, this 19year-old kid walking
00:59:39
up in my Newcastle jersey. Mark Graham
00:59:41
standing at the front with his beers
00:59:42
jersey on all ready to run the ball out
00:59:44
and I'm sitting there going, "Oh [ __ ]
00:59:46
please don't come down my side today."
00:59:48
You know, um and you and you and you're
00:59:51
looking at these great that you you're a
00:59:53
kid going, "Shit, you know, these are
00:59:55
your idols." And then the next minute
00:59:57
you're playing against them and you're
00:59:58
playing alongside them. Um, and that
01:00:00
that was some that would be something
01:00:01
that I'll never forget is having the
01:00:03
opportunity to play with some really
01:00:06
really great what I think footballers.
01:00:09
>> Legends of the game.
01:00:10
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. And and there's
01:00:12
a ton of them. You know Kurt People say
01:00:14
who's the toughest bloke you ever played
01:00:15
with? Kurt Sson without a doubt. You
01:00:17
know what I mean? I've seen him playing
01:00:18
in England and and I seen the English
01:00:21
scrum break up. I was playing fullback
01:00:22
at the time and the English scrum broke
01:00:23
up and um all of the boys stood up and
01:00:26
said Kurt and when Kurt pulled his head
01:00:27
up all the English boys put their head
01:00:28
back in the scrum, you know what I mean?
01:00:30
I was like [ __ ] okay, well I'm behind
01:00:32
him. So yeah, there's some there's some
01:00:34
great there were some great players
01:00:36
>> that um the court case that you talked
01:00:38
about before um taking the New New
01:00:40
Zealand Rugby League to court and
01:00:41
winning. Um it feels like a dangerous
01:00:44
move at the time, beginning of your
01:00:45
career, it could have potentially like
01:00:47
cost you a spot in the Kiwis. Well,
01:00:51
yeah. Like, like they try to make a
01:00:53
scapegoat of of me. Um, look, I I
01:00:57
actually spoke to a few players and
01:00:59
said, "Look, this is what we're doing.
01:01:00
You guys want to be in?" And and a few
01:01:02
of them said, "Yeah." But as soon as I
01:01:03
pushed the go button, of course, it was
01:01:05
going to cost money. And they all pulled
01:01:06
out and I was I was on the doll. So, I
01:01:09
played rookie season for Newcastle. I
01:01:11
didn't have a contract. I was on a doll.
01:01:14
Um, and I had no money and I was taking
01:01:17
these guys to the court in New Zealand.
01:01:18
Of course, back in those days, you had
01:01:20
to pay your way. Um, so I had to win,
01:01:23
you know, I had to win. Um, so it was
01:01:25
dawning. I was I was 20 going on 21. Um,
01:01:28
it cost me in real money 74,000
01:01:32
Australian dollars at the time. Um, when
01:01:34
I got a quote, they said it was going to
01:01:35
cost me 25K. Um, the actual bills are
01:01:38
closer to 80. Um, the first three years
01:01:41
of my contracts were to pay that bill
01:01:43
because, you know, it's after tax. So,
01:01:45
I've got to earn, pay my tax, and then
01:01:47
pay that bill. Um, but it was sort of,
01:01:50
you know,
01:01:50
>> was it a principal thing?
01:01:53
>> If you don't know me, if you if you know
01:01:55
me, then you know that principles are
01:01:57
pretty it's the principle, you know what
01:02:00
I mean? It's sort of I find it really
01:02:03
hard to step out if if I'm
01:02:06
thinking something's wrong, you know?
01:02:08
So, um, we did we did that here talking
01:02:11
to the high court. It cost me, you know,
01:02:13
three years of earning capacity. In
01:02:15
hindsight, when you look at it, that's
01:02:17
probably the reason why the Warriors
01:02:18
came to town because, you know, that was
01:02:20
in ' 89 and 95. They come into the
01:02:22
competition cuz the explosion of Kiwis
01:02:23
that went to the the competition. Um,
01:02:26
you talk to the Mad Butcher and the Dean
01:02:28
Lonigans of the world that actually can
01:02:29
see that, you know, so they saw that,
01:02:32
>> you know, what they were doing was
01:02:34
stopping our talent from growing. And
01:02:35
and if I look at the catalyst to where
01:02:38
New Zealand as a as a playing nation of
01:02:41
of players are at the moment, we would
01:02:43
have still been well behind the
01:02:45
eightball if that decision wasn't made
01:02:46
back in '89. Um
01:02:48
>> and now, you know, we always wanted to
01:02:50
be number one. I think once we get
01:02:51
there, you know, and if and if the
01:02:53
international law doesn't keep [ __ ]
01:02:55
around with the rules, um New Zealand is
01:02:58
going to be hard to knock off.
01:03:00
>> Why didn't you just put that in the two
01:03:02
hard basket though, like most people
01:03:03
would have done?
01:03:05
Well, it's a it was the principal and
01:03:07
and I look in the in the court case, you
01:03:10
know, I remember standing up in the in
01:03:11
the box and talking to the judge and and
01:03:14
and and he said, "Well, what will you do
01:03:15
if you don't win this case?" And I said,
01:03:17
"Well, probably guess I'll go back to
01:03:18
White and work the freezing works
01:03:20
>> cuz man, I would have been a career
01:03:22
ender."
01:03:23
>> Well, yeah, because see back in those
01:03:25
days, you had to have played six tests
01:03:26
or been on two tours. So, by the time it
01:03:28
was harder to get in the Kiwi team than
01:03:30
to get out of it, you know. So um the
01:03:33
average age of play players that turned
01:03:35
professional was 26 you know like so I
01:03:37
retired from the Kiwis and after 25
01:03:39
tests I was 26.
01:03:40
>> M
01:03:41
>> you know I was and I used the rest of
01:03:43
the my career to to earn money. Um so
01:03:46
there was no there was no other way for
01:03:48
me other than at that time to go and try
01:03:50
and win this case because it made the
01:03:52
difference of me having this dream of
01:03:54
being a professional sportsman or going
01:03:57
home and working at the freezing works
01:03:58
and I just didn't want to do that.
01:04:01
I I I've never met your mom. All I know
01:04:03
about her is um the way you've described
01:04:04
her. But um [ __ ] the apple doesn't fall
01:04:06
far from the tree, does it? No. No. No.
01:04:09
And and and so much that me and her are
01:04:11
more best mates than than mother and
01:04:13
son, you know, like we have a a good old
01:04:15
laugh even though she hasn't got her
01:04:16
hearing aids in half the time um I talk
01:04:19
to her. But yeah, look, you know, you
01:04:22
look at mom. See, mom, both my parents
01:04:24
were were um you know,
01:04:28
factory workers. You know, my mom worked
01:04:30
for Teagle Poultry, but she was the
01:04:31
union rep, so she was the person
01:04:33
everyone went to if there was something
01:04:35
wrong, and mom would stick up for them,
01:04:37
you know. Um, my dad was a hard man of
01:04:40
town, you know. If there was anything
01:04:41
wrong, they'd go to get him. So, I the
01:04:44
apple didn't fall too far from the tree
01:04:45
with that. You know, I can tell the
01:04:47
story in England when I I come and I
01:04:49
broke my arm two or three times and I
01:04:50
come back to training and um we had
01:04:53
three colored BS in our team at the time
01:04:55
and and I walked into the the mess room
01:04:57
where we we watch videos and and chill
01:05:00
out and I said to I said to Faz and Dez
01:05:03
I said what's what's going on and they
01:05:04
said oh you can't call us black [ __ ]
01:05:06
mate talking about the coach you know so
01:05:09
I'm coming back trying to get ready to
01:05:11
play and my mates who I wasn't captain
01:05:15
at at the time, but I was the guy that
01:05:17
people would come to and well, you can't
01:05:18
call us black [ __ ] And so I stepped
01:05:22
out of the room and had to get inside my
01:05:23
head and go, what do you do? You know,
01:05:26
and I'm talking to myself, what do you
01:05:27
do? Do you stand up for that which is
01:05:30
wrong or do you let it go and just get
01:05:34
on with it, be ridden like a donkey?
01:05:36
Yeah.
01:05:38
>> So, I walked back into the room and I
01:05:39
said, "Okay, boys, this is what's going
01:05:41
to happen. I'm going to go into that
01:05:42
room. I'm going to tell him you can't do
01:05:43
that and I'll probably be done." All
01:05:45
right, that'll be me. In my head, I'm
01:05:47
going, "No way in the world if you're a
01:05:49
coach, you can someone come and say that
01:05:50
to you and you got to get rid of him."
01:05:52
So, I actually went into the room. I
01:05:53
said to the coach, "Hey, man, you know
01:05:55
what's going on?" "Hey, Kempy, how you
01:05:56
going?" I said, "I just want to What do
01:05:58
you want?" I said, "I just got to tell
01:05:59
you, mate, you can't say that." All
01:06:01
right, that's wrong. Got BS in that room
01:06:03
in there. They're really upset. I didn't
01:06:05
say it. So, you're going, "Well, [ __ ]
01:06:07
They said that and you're saying that."
01:06:08
I said, "Oh, hey, I'm just the
01:06:09
messenger." Just can't say that. you
01:06:11
know, so that was me. Like, you know,
01:06:14
the court case is the same thing. Hey,
01:06:16
well, that's wrong. You know, it's a
01:06:17
restraint of trade. My trade is
01:06:18
football. Why are you stopping me from
01:06:20
playing football? Um, and there were so
01:06:22
many times in my career that that's
01:06:25
happened, you know. So, and on that
01:06:27
occasion, sure enough, the following
01:06:29
year, I'm punted, you know, I'm heading
01:06:31
off to Wakefield. Um, hey, it it is what
01:06:34
it is, you know, and it's probably to be
01:06:37
honest and I've said this to a couple of
01:06:38
people, there's probably more bridges
01:06:39
that I've burnt because of having that
01:06:42
stance um than towing the party line and
01:06:45
and
01:06:46
>> I got to say that I'm comfortable with
01:06:48
it, you know. Um, some, you know, as I'm
01:06:50
getting older, I would have done it a
01:06:52
little bit differently. Um, but yeah, if
01:06:54
the principles strong within me that,
01:06:56
you know, it's there's a difference
01:06:58
between right or wrong. There's no
01:06:59
there's no gray area.
01:07:00
>> Yeah.
01:07:01
>> Oh, good on you. cuz it takes a a
01:07:02
considerable amount of courage to do
01:07:04
that.
01:07:05
>> Yeah. Or or you're dumb, you know, or
01:07:09
you're not very smart.
01:07:13
Sucker for punishment. Yeah.
01:07:14
>> Um do you do you recall um the moment
01:07:17
you got named in the Kiwis for the first
01:07:19
time?
01:07:20
>> Was it was it a TV announcement, a phone
01:07:22
call? How does it happen?
01:07:23
>> Yeah. No, no, no. It's it's it's
01:07:24
announced it's announced over look
01:07:29
one thing we we didn't do back well back
01:07:31
then was announcements you know like um
01:07:34
it's generally announced after trials um
01:07:38
you know I was I was I was meant to play
01:07:39
in the 88 World Cup at Eden Park I got
01:07:41
hurt in the last trial hurt my shoulder
01:07:43
and that's when Gary Mercer went to
01:07:44
fullback um had a shocker Ming had a
01:07:48
shocker back there Alfie Langer I
01:07:49
remember I remember Gary Freeman and and
01:07:51
Ming Mercer having a crack at each other
01:07:53
at test in it and it was all around that
01:07:55
Alfie Langanger sideep that went around
01:07:57
him at Eden Park you know it was quite
01:07:58
quite hilarious. Um but I got injured
01:08:01
and and then in ' 89 um they played the
01:08:03
Australian Series down here and they
01:08:05
named the team um after you know a
01:08:09
certain round which I got named and and
01:08:11
got named opposite um Kevin Edo Edor who
01:08:14
was my best mate you know um that we
01:08:16
went through all their age groups
01:08:17
together so he'd made it in ' 88 I made
01:08:20
in ' 89 so we got to play with each
01:08:22
other um and on the back of that some
01:08:24
legends in that that series too you know
01:08:26
at the end of the year went to England
01:08:27
and Curt Sorenson was still playing and
01:08:29
Huey Man and Dean Bell, um Daryl
01:08:33
Williams, you know, um Mark Helia, all
01:08:35
those guys when I was just a a young a
01:08:38
young fell. So, um it was a pretty proud
01:08:41
moment, you know. Um my dad was still
01:08:44
alive then. Um you know, he drive his
01:08:46
car to, you know, didn't like flying.
01:08:47
He'd drive his car down to Christ Church
01:08:49
to watch and um up to watch the second
01:08:52
one and and and I think the third one
01:08:54
was here at Mount Smart. So, um, yeah, I
01:08:57
remember those those those games, those
01:09:00
tours, um, like they were yesterday when
01:09:03
you think about them. Um, and and again,
01:09:06
it was, you know, there's there's
01:09:08
moments in your career where you can
01:09:10
remember I remember pulling on my white
01:09:12
ta premier jersey for the first time and
01:09:14
and I idolized those guys, you know,
01:09:18
they were my club, they my club, my my
01:09:20
my childhood club, grew up watching all
01:09:22
these legends play. Um, and then when I
01:09:25
got to wear the Premier jersey, I
01:09:26
remember pulling that jersey and I still
01:09:27
got it. Um, and then I went to Randwick
01:09:30
and I remember the first game I pulled
01:09:32
it on for them like I smelt it. I could
01:09:34
feel it. And the same thing went for all
01:09:35
the Kiwi jersey. So um, I buried all
01:09:38
those jerseys with my father when he
01:09:40
died in ' 91. So every every jersey that
01:09:42
I had um, representative jersey up until
01:09:45
that stage I put in a coffin with him.
01:09:47
And it's quite funny cuz all my cousins
01:09:49
when they come down and my dad's lying
01:09:50
there in state and they seen all these
01:09:52
jerseys and they're pulling them up and
01:09:53
I'm going keep your hands off those.
01:09:56
They're not for you you buggers,
01:09:58
you know. So, uh yeah, he was he was he
01:10:01
was a real proud man about wearing that
01:10:05
black jersey, you know. Um so, yeah,
01:10:08
somewhere up there in photo if you pull
01:10:10
if you pull up pull up that man out of a
01:10:12
hole, there's some decent jerseys down
01:10:13
there.
01:10:16
That was um a hell of an Australian a
01:10:18
hell of a way to make your test debut
01:10:20
like um your Wally Lewis, captain of
01:10:21
Australia, Melmaninger on the side. Um
01:10:24
yeah. Are you familiar with the term
01:10:25
imposter syndrome?
01:10:27
>> Uh yeah, I am.
01:10:29
>> Were you were you [ __ ] yourself
01:10:30
playing for the Kiwis for the first time
01:10:32
or
01:10:32
>> Yeah, look um I my belief to get there
01:10:36
was really strong. Um, I guess when
01:10:39
you're looking across the paddock at
01:10:41
that lineup, you know, you you look at
01:10:43
that lineup which you've been watching
01:10:44
for years, you know, the Maninggas and
01:10:46
>> the Curries, the the the Langers, the,
01:10:50
you know, Wally Lewis, Mark Wally, and
01:10:52
and Mel a number of times in there. Um,
01:10:56
I think I think what I I got to learn
01:10:58
was that we we really didn't give
01:11:00
ourselves enough of a a chance. Um, we
01:11:03
were sort of beaten before we got onto
01:11:05
the pitch most of the time because
01:11:07
because our country would write us off
01:11:08
as underdogs, you know.
01:11:10
>> Um, and I always thought that, you know,
01:11:13
the if if I always thought we were
01:11:16
tougher than them, but they were more
01:11:18
skillful skillful than us and and they
01:11:20
threw caution to the wind where we were
01:11:22
not as as as
01:11:24
built like that to do things because of
01:11:26
the competitions and that that they had.
01:11:28
So, um, I was had I had no problem
01:11:31
running around out there, you know, I'd
01:11:32
been in that that performance grade for
01:11:35
so long that I couldn't wait to get
01:11:37
there. Um, but it's sort of when you
01:11:40
finish, it's like when you finish, you
01:11:42
you ask yourself the question, could I
01:11:44
have done anything
01:11:45
>> better or done anything else? And and
01:11:48
that's a really hard question to answer,
01:11:49
Dom, because you know, like it's a team
01:11:52
sport and you get so many situations
01:11:55
during a game where you've got to take
01:11:57
your chances and you know, if it isn't
01:12:00
for a slip of the pass or a knock on or
01:12:03
or you're or someone doesn't see you,
01:12:06
the opportunities pass you so quickly
01:12:07
and and I've watched a couple of those
01:12:09
games, you know, with the with the
01:12:10
advent of the the internet now where you
01:12:12
can go back and look at some of those
01:12:14
games and in my head I go, "Oh [ __ ]
01:12:15
that's right. if we could have just
01:12:16
passed that ball, it would have been
01:12:18
different, you know, but um I enjoyed
01:12:22
it. I, you know, every every minute of
01:12:24
wearing that black jersey um and I've
01:12:28
been a big advocate for that. you would
01:12:29
have heard me talk about bleeding black
01:12:31
and
01:12:31
>> you know I think I think what Benji
01:12:33
Marshall did when he came out of the
01:12:34
Australian school boys to choose New
01:12:36
Zealand I think just recently with Kalum
01:12:38
Pong coming um
01:12:40
>> and saying that he wants to represent
01:12:41
his country I think they'll the iconic
01:12:43
statements which this country needs you
01:12:45
know
01:12:46
>> um and origin will always be origin you
01:12:49
know our country's always supported
01:12:52
origin but you know that black jersey we
01:12:54
got to be careful that we preserve it
01:12:55
because it's pretty special
01:12:57
>> throughout your playing career what was
01:12:58
the most lucrative contract you ever
01:13:00
had?
01:13:01
>> Ooh. Oh, Super League. Super League. So,
01:13:06
and I was lucky, you know, like I I
01:13:08
played I played up in Newcastle and then
01:13:10
I I headed up to the UK. I actually I
01:13:13
played a test series and I fell out with
01:13:15
a coach um with with no doing of my own.
01:13:18
But I got back from a test series and
01:13:22
one of the players was out of form. And
01:13:25
when I went back into the change room to
01:13:28
read the team sheet, I was in second
01:13:29
grade
01:13:30
>> and I and the coach had pulled me out
01:13:32
and I'm going, "Why am I on second
01:13:35
grade? I've just played test series."
01:13:36
You know what I mean? And he said, "Oh,
01:13:38
my contract was up and he said, "Oh,
01:13:41
you're going to have to play loose for
01:13:42
next year, compete against Mark
01:13:44
Glennville. Um, you I'm putting this guy
01:13:46
in the centers this week and and you're
01:13:48
playing second grade." And I said, "What
01:13:51
do you mean? Like I've just finished
01:13:52
playing the test series." and he said,
01:13:54
"No, that's what I want to do." And I I
01:13:56
didn't even train. I just jumped in my
01:13:58
car, went home. You know, I wanted to
01:14:00
hit him. I was that annoyed. I got in
01:14:02
got in my car, went home, and Tarw had
01:14:05
spoken to me about going to England and
01:14:06
playing for Castford. And so I phoned T
01:14:07
up and I said, "Hey, T, I'm coming,
01:14:09
man."
01:14:10
>> You know, and that's how I ended up in
01:14:12
England. And I went to England. I played
01:14:13
in. So I played in the Super League war
01:14:15
when Super League ARIRL won. I ended up
01:14:17
in the Super League contracts. Um,
01:14:20
and I ended up at Leads with Posty and
01:14:22
and Douggee Lorton, who Posty may have
01:14:26
spoken about, um, great bloke Dougie,
01:14:28
you know, you couldn't understand it,
01:14:29
but he knew money.
01:14:32
And he basically just said to me, "What
01:14:33
do you want?" And, and I said to him,
01:14:35
"This is what I want." And, um, I I I
01:14:39
was probably the second highest paid
01:14:42
player at Leads at the time. and and
01:14:44
they talked about having this contract
01:14:45
locked up in the in the um as safe at
01:14:48
Leads and everyone thought it was Tar um
01:14:51
but only me and Douggee knew it was me
01:14:53
and I ended up going to Leads and and I
01:14:55
actually re renegotiated that contract
01:14:57
with Dean Bell cuz Dean Bell came to
01:14:58
Leads the following year. Douggee lost
01:15:00
the job and Dean Bell got it and I went
01:15:02
back to the Crushes and the ARIRL were
01:15:04
trying to get me to reag on my Super
01:15:06
League contract to stay in the ARIRL um
01:15:08
competition, which I'm glad I didn't cuz
01:15:10
the Crushes folded two years later and
01:15:13
Dean Bell said, "Oh, I want you to come
01:15:15
back to lead." So, I ended up going back
01:15:16
and I re renegotiated it again um with
01:15:20
the new owner and and that's a funny
01:15:22
story. He walks in, Gary Heatherington
01:15:24
at the time with Paul Katak and he says,
01:15:26
"Hey boys, the very first time they did
01:15:29
this in England, um, we're going to have
01:15:30
a top 25 and we're sitting around the me
01:15:33
and Kev, like we've been around for
01:15:36
ages, so we knew sort of what was going
01:15:38
on." And as soon as he said top 25, I
01:15:40
knew what he was thinking. He knew what
01:15:42
I was thinking. And um, he then goes,
01:15:46
"Okay, but you're going to come and tell
01:15:47
me where you think you sit in the top
01:15:50
25." Well, Iro beat me to his office, so
01:15:54
I had to sit outside the office in the
01:15:56
line. I was next to going after Iro and
01:15:59
um sit down. Iro comes out. He's y
01:16:03
giving me the high five. I'm going
01:16:05
wanker and he and go sit down and Gary
01:16:09
goes, "Right, Tony, where do you think
01:16:11
you're sitting?" I said, "Well, I was
01:16:12
sitting number one, but now I'm number
01:16:13
two."
01:16:15
And he just started laughing. He just
01:16:17
started laughing. He said, "Yep. Okay,
01:16:19
this what we're going to do. Rap. we're
01:16:20
going to bundle it all up. And I said,
01:16:21
"Yeah, I'm happy with that." Um, yeah.
01:16:23
And and it was it was, you know, back
01:16:26
then I decided to, you know, the 95
01:16:29
World Cup to that was my last test
01:16:31
series. Um because at 26, you know, I I
01:16:36
just had a a young girl and I thought,
01:16:39
well, you know, international football
01:16:41
doesn't pay you a lot of money and it
01:16:42
and it does when you go on those tours
01:16:44
and that it does take it out of you and
01:16:46
you can your form can dip at club and I
01:16:48
just, you know, putting logic together
01:16:50
thought, well, I if I get four or five
01:16:52
good years out of my contract, I'll just
01:16:54
earn money so I can set myself up for
01:16:56
later after 40.
01:16:57
>> Yeah.
01:16:58
>> Smart decision in hindsight.
01:17:00
>> Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. And and and to be
01:17:02
honest, Dom, I I you know, five or six
01:17:05
years in the Kiwis, I was probably done
01:17:06
to,
01:17:07
>> you know, I'd um I played a lot of
01:17:10
international footy since the age of 15.
01:17:12
And you know it's I wanted to I wanted
01:17:15
to enjoy my footy and and when I went to
01:17:18
cast and and although I had the injuries
01:17:20
at Leads and the and I used to love
01:17:21
playing up in England it was you know
01:17:23
there's there was no media looking at
01:17:25
you cuz it's all football and the media
01:17:27
up there and you could just go out there
01:17:28
and enjoy yourself and um
01:17:33
I found it really hard to leave England
01:17:35
>> you know. So when we decided to to
01:17:37
finally pull up stumps and and came back
01:17:39
come back to New Zealand um I had had
01:17:42
such a good time there because I went up
01:17:43
to Doncaster when I was 17 and I you
01:17:46
know they they had a program they called
01:17:47
another bloody Sunday where they hadn't
01:17:48
won a game and I'd sent them a letter
01:17:50
and they took me on. We ended up
01:17:52
finishing the top four. Um so I can
01:17:54
still go to Doncaster now and people are
01:17:56
still talking about those days and wow
01:17:58
>> I took a mate up there Carl Hall who's
01:18:00
from Aland and and he now owns a club.
01:18:03
Um never come home. He's been up there
01:18:04
for 30 odd years. Um, so you know,
01:18:07
England's got a you know, there's a
01:18:09
couple of places, a couple of people up
01:18:10
there. Pretty special place in my heart
01:18:12
up there.
01:18:13
>> You you got into coaching real early.
01:18:14
You started coaching while you were
01:18:16
still playing. Well, I was because, you
01:18:18
know, I was I was a 5'8, so I was always
01:18:21
delivering coaching messages or and
01:18:22
talking to the coaches about strategies
01:18:24
and all that. Anyway, um so it was just
01:18:27
a it was a natural progression and and
01:18:30
funny story like when I was at Leads I I
01:18:31
snapped my arm a few times and Gary
01:18:34
Heatherington got me into the room and
01:18:35
said, "Oh, look, we want some of the
01:18:36
money back." And I said to him, "Well,
01:18:39
that ain't going to happen. Not my
01:18:40
fault. I got broken arm. I broke it
01:18:42
playing for you." Um and I said to him,
01:18:45
"But I'll tell you what I will do is
01:18:46
I'll coach your A team, which is the
01:18:48
like New South Wales Cup." Um and in
01:18:50
that side was Kevin Sinfield, Gareth
01:18:52
Ellis, um Adrien Moley, you know, some
01:18:55
really good kids and we ended up winning
01:18:56
the comp.
01:18:57
>> So that was my foray into coaching and
01:19:00
then the conversation about the the
01:19:03
colored guys and all that and then I
01:19:05
ended up at Wakefield as a player coach
01:19:07
and that's how I got on my my coaching
01:19:09
journey. Um, so I play a coach at
01:19:11
Wakefield. Then I came home and I was I
01:19:14
was on my way back down here when Posty
01:19:16
called me and said, "Oh, mate, have you
01:19:18
thought about coaching the Warriors?"
01:19:20
And I said, "I'm probably going to head
01:19:22
back to Newcastle cuz I had a property
01:19:23
over there." And um he said, "Oh, Ridgie
01:19:27
and them are setting up a club down
01:19:28
here, man. You maybe talk to Ridgie."
01:19:29
And I said, "Oh, yeah, okay then." So
01:19:30
ended up having a conversation with
01:19:32
Ridgie and really quickly I came in for
01:19:35
interview with Ridgie and Mick Watson at
01:19:37
the time. Um, and they only had four
01:19:40
people hired at that stage was Patty,
01:19:42
the front office lady, Ando, Daniel
01:19:45
Anderson, Mick, and Ridgie. So, there
01:19:47
were the four people at the club. And I
01:19:49
was I was I don't Well, Richie wasn't
01:19:52
hired. He was he was an owner. Um, and I
01:19:55
walked in and we had a, you know,
01:19:57
Ridgie, good bugger, you know, been
01:19:59
great mates for a while.
01:20:01
>> Um, didn't put any any acid on. said,
01:20:04
"You're just going to have to convince
01:20:05
Ando, you know, like and and I, you
01:20:07
know, I walked in there, told him what I
01:20:09
thought." Um, yeah. And the rest is
01:20:11
history.
01:20:13
>> You were, you were 34 when you became
01:20:15
coach of the Warriors. Assistant coach
01:20:16
or head coach?
01:20:18
>> Uh,
01:20:20
34 when I became head coach. So, I was
01:20:22
one of the youngest NRL coaches. And
01:20:24
>> it's wild, eh?
01:20:25
>> They Yeah. And look, I' I've spoken to a
01:20:27
few of the players, you know, like back
01:20:29
in those days that they obviously at the
01:20:31
back end of their careers were going,
01:20:32
"Fuck, you know, Kempy was a stage when
01:20:33
he was coaching the Warriors, you know,
01:20:34
and and it was sort of a really tough
01:20:37
one for me, Dom, you know, like we had
01:20:38
all that success earlier on, went to a
01:20:40
grand final, just missed the the second
01:20:42
one with beat beaten by Penri and then
01:20:44
in 2004 had that bad run and Ando
01:20:46
resigned and I took over." Um, but I you
01:20:49
know, if if I always say, you know, what
01:20:51
would you have done differently? Well, I
01:20:53
wouldn't have taken it,
01:20:54
>> but I didn't have the advice at the time
01:20:55
to sort of take a back seat, stay in
01:20:58
your assistant role, keep developing
01:21:00
yourself as a coach.
01:21:02
>> Um, and I was caught between, well, I
01:21:05
may may never get this chance again. Um,
01:21:08
so take it type thing. And in hindsight,
01:21:10
I probably shouldn't have taken it. You
01:21:12
know,
01:21:12
>> hindsight's a wonderful thing though,
01:21:13
isn't it?
01:21:14
>> But it is for a lot of things. You I can
01:21:16
tell you hindsight around a thousand
01:21:18
different stories. But m like I said,
01:21:20
you know, when I've seen so many people,
01:21:22
I'll never forget the interview I gave
01:21:24
when I lost the job. Um I'd often
01:21:27
thought about exit strategies and I've
01:21:29
seen so many people handed them poorly.
01:21:31
And you know, one of the things I was
01:21:33
never ever going to allow um myself to
01:21:37
do was to bag the game of rugby league
01:21:39
because
01:21:40
>> if you think about the story and what
01:21:42
I've been talking to you about where I
01:21:43
came from, it was rugby league that was
01:21:45
a catalyst to big change in my life. Um,
01:21:48
and if I was to sit there at 14 and say,
01:21:51
"Guess what? I'm going to be one of the
01:21:53
one of the youngest coaches to ever
01:21:55
coach a professional team in New Zealand
01:21:56
called the Warriors," you'd be you'd be
01:21:58
throwing stones at me down at the
01:22:00
Watcher Bar. You know what I mean?
01:22:02
>> Um, so I was never ever going to take
01:22:03
that away. And and I I thank the sport
01:22:06
even even, you know, sitting here with
01:22:08
you. You know, it's generally because
01:22:09
I'm a I've had a career in in rugby
01:22:12
league, you know, like rugby league's
01:22:13
given me um enormous opportunity
01:22:15
throughout my career.
01:22:17
So the the warrior stuff, it's a long
01:22:18
way in the rear view now. Like 20 20 21
01:22:21
years, 22 years. Um God, where does the
01:22:23
time go? Eh,
01:22:24
>> it flies.
01:22:25
>> It's crazy. Um chat GPT AI describes
01:22:28
your time at the Warriors as turbulent
01:22:30
and controversial.
01:22:32
>> Is that fair?
01:22:34
>> Well, it was, you know, like you got to
01:22:35
think, you got to think about, you know,
01:22:37
Ando was only 35,
01:22:39
>> you know, so and and we didn't have 14
01:22:41
different coaches, you know. There was
01:22:43
me, Ando, a trainer, and a manager. So
01:22:46
that was running the team, you know, and
01:22:48
and we had some success there. We had
01:22:50
more success than we had failures. Um,
01:22:52
but it was turbulent on those back end
01:22:54
of the years because what happened to
01:22:56
Ando, I had to pick up and and run with
01:22:58
a team for the rest of the year that
01:22:59
wasn't fit
01:23:00
>> and and get them to the back end of the
01:23:02
year and then we had to try and rebuild
01:23:03
it to get it through the next year. And
01:23:05
if you follow the schools, we missed it
01:23:07
by a whisker.
01:23:08
>> Yeah, there was so many close games.
01:23:09
>> So many close games. Was it was there
01:23:10
like a like a lack of fitness in the
01:23:12
team in the in the final quarter of the
01:23:14
game or
01:23:14
>> No, 2004 was 2005. It's you know we just
01:23:18
we missed a couple of decisions and you
01:23:20
know we could have wrapped up games and
01:23:22
stuff like that but we were rebuilding.
01:23:25
>> Um and I always knew that I was having
01:23:29
to battle to hold my position. So if I
01:23:32
didn't make the eight I was probably
01:23:34
going to be punted, you know.
01:23:36
I, you know, you know, Ivan, Ivan and
01:23:40
Campo were my assistant coaches then.
01:23:42
Um, you know, their journey was
01:23:44
starting. They brought in John Hart. I
01:23:46
I'd never forgive John Hart for the way
01:23:48
that he treated me. Um, you know, he
01:23:50
used to whine and dine me up at his
01:23:52
house with breakfastes and all that and
01:23:53
talk about [ __ ] and blow wind up my ass
01:23:56
and then he sacks me. Um, and I never
01:23:58
forgive him because, you know, like I I
01:24:00
see I'm a Kiwi, you know, and and
01:24:05
I thought that in those first four or
01:24:07
five years, if you're looking for a
01:24:08
young coach that actually had more
01:24:10
success through that time with Daniel
01:24:12
than adversity to bring the team back.
01:24:15
Um, and me and Ivan were starting to do
01:24:17
that, that they they may have given me a
01:24:19
longer longer tenure to do that and sort
01:24:21
of grow alongside Ivan again. Um but he
01:24:25
was he was in in my books just total
01:24:29
dickheaded about the whole thing.
01:24:30
>> Who's that? Harty.
01:24:31
>> John Hart. Yeah. So
01:24:32
>> still still there now?
01:24:34
>> Yeah. It's still like
01:24:36
>> seen him since
01:24:37
>> I would I would No, I don't want to see
01:24:39
him, you know, like I would never do
01:24:41
that, you know. This that's the type of
01:24:42
person I am. It's black and white. Um,
01:24:45
you know, it's it it's sort of the way
01:24:47
that the way that he sort of, you know,
01:24:51
was grooming
01:24:52
Ivan for the position
01:24:54
>> was, you know, and and I've never spoken
01:24:57
about this before. Um,
01:25:00
>> you know, it was really hard to take,
01:25:01
you know, cuz I put my put my life into
01:25:03
that club for for so many years. So,
01:25:06
>> um, but again, they they say that
01:25:09
there's only two types of coaches, you
01:25:11
know what I mean?
01:25:12
>> Those that have been Yeah. I Brad
01:25:13
Thornton I had him on the podcast a
01:25:15
couple of weeks ago and he told me this
01:25:16
I hadn't heard it before. Uh you've been
01:25:18
sacked or you're about to be sacked.
01:25:19
>> Yeah.
01:25:20
>> So and I and I was you know the reality
01:25:23
was that you know I was again you know
01:25:26
going to be moved on.
01:25:28
>> Um the thing that the thing I I remember
01:25:31
sitting up in Riiera you know he Hardy
01:25:34
had a place up there and he told me oh
01:25:36
man you you know we're going to go with
01:25:37
Ivan you know we're going to have a
01:25:40
media interview this afternoon and
01:25:41
everyone knew before me. That's the
01:25:43
other thing that got me. You know,
01:25:44
everyone knew before I did. Um and I
01:25:48
remember sitting up there and I was
01:25:49
having a cry in the car, you know, and
01:25:50
you know, [ __ ] it's my coaching career
01:25:52
is over and um I just thought I just
01:25:56
thought, man, like and and really
01:25:59
quickly I talked to I talked to my mate.
01:26:01
I gave Bruce a call and I talked to him
01:26:03
and um he was saying, you know, get your
01:26:05
thoughts together and and and come back,
01:26:07
you know, let's let's really handle this
01:26:09
handle this right. Um, and by the time I
01:26:13
journeyed from there back to the club, I
01:26:14
was on a high again because I was just
01:26:17
went through my career, you know, and I
01:26:19
just thought about the things that I had
01:26:21
done and had been able to achieve, you
01:26:23
know, um, being Polynesian too, being
01:26:25
MAI and that those type of key
01:26:27
positions. Half the stories I don't tell
01:26:29
the boys, you know, cuz they wouldn't
01:26:30
believe me.
01:26:31
>> Um, but yeah, and I just thought, man,
01:26:35
you're 35, you know, like you've you've
01:26:37
had a hell of a run. Um, and I think the
01:26:40
way that that exit strategy worked for
01:26:43
me by handling it correctly has sort of
01:26:45
driven things that have since been
01:26:48
really good for me. You know, like I've
01:26:49
I've, you know, I got I got a numerous
01:26:51
phone calls from businesses that wanted
01:26:53
to to to hire me. There's so many
01:26:55
correlations between sport and business
01:26:57
these days. you know, I've ended up
01:26:58
managing um businesses for people um and
01:27:02
just using team building and and
01:27:05
building great teams and and getting
01:27:06
cultures right and stuff like that. Um
01:27:10
and part of me when I look back on it
01:27:12
now at that age, I was just a kid,
01:27:15
>> you know, like like the Tony Kemp today
01:27:17
would be handling it totally different
01:27:19
to to to what that kid handled it. Um
01:27:22
but when you say would you do it again
01:27:24
mate you have a look at that team that
01:27:25
we coached
01:27:27
>> like Clinton Tupi arguably the best
01:27:30
center at the time in the world the two
01:27:31
wingers Francis and and Henry Campo is
01:27:34
on the phone to me every day you know
01:27:36
what I mean he's he's actually over here
01:27:37
this week must want to catch up for a
01:27:38
beer but I'm heading to Aussie on
01:27:40
Thursday
01:27:40
>> Kevin Campion
01:27:41
>> he's absolute legend mate you know um
01:27:44
but you just have a look at the the
01:27:46
caliber Donk the manager you know he
01:27:48
he's on the phone to me Ando I called I
01:27:50
called Ando up so Ando Ando's had that
01:27:52
accident, you know.
01:27:54
>> Yeah. So Daniel Yeah. Daniel Anderson.
01:27:56
Um Yeah. I think this was uh New Year's
01:27:57
Eve 2022 accident.
01:27:59
>> Yeah. I got a phone call, you know. And
01:28:01
he'd actually died and they brought him
01:28:02
back to life on the beach. And so I'm
01:28:05
like, man, I got to go and see him. So
01:28:07
me and my partner headed over to Sydney
01:28:09
and I'm I'm like, he's in a he's in a
01:28:12
wheelchair. He can't quleic. He he can
01:28:15
move. He can move okay now. Um, but when
01:28:18
I went to see him, so I caught a taxi
01:28:20
out to the hospital
01:28:24
and of course we were young, so we never
01:28:26
really handled our goodbyes that well.
01:28:28
Like he said, "Roll with the punches."
01:28:29
That's all he said to me when he left
01:28:31
left the club. So, you know, he's gone
01:28:33
from working really close to me as an
01:28:35
assistant coach, head coach, and then
01:28:38
all of a sudden just left me in the
01:28:39
lurch, you know what I mean? And said to
01:28:40
me, "Roll with punches." And I didn't
01:28:42
really forgive him for that, you know,
01:28:43
cuz I picked up the picked up the mental
01:28:45
and had to run with it. and coped all
01:28:47
the [ __ ] that went went beside it as
01:28:49
well. And so we had really spoken to
01:28:51
each other and I so I went he I heard
01:28:53
the accident I went to Sydney I said I
01:28:54
got to go and see him. So I called,
01:28:56
jumped in the cab, went out the hospital
01:28:57
and I phoned him and I said, "Oh, what
01:28:59
are you doing?" You know, "Hey, man. How
01:29:01
you going?" I said, "Oh, just thinking
01:29:02
about visiting you." He goes, "Oh yeah,
01:29:04
just give me some warning." And and um
01:29:06
yep, you know, that should be fine. And
01:29:08
I said, "Okay, here's your warning. I'm
01:29:10
in the car park."
01:29:13
He's gone, "Oh shit." Okay. So he's
01:29:16
rolled out, mate. I said, "I'll wait for
01:29:17
you in the up at the cafe." So he's
01:29:18
rolled up the cafe half an hour later.
01:29:21
Um Oh yeah, mate. We we pissed our pants
01:29:24
for a good hour and a half just we we
01:29:27
were say what we were saying to each
01:29:28
other was mate we were so [ __ ] young
01:29:31
we like that you know making all these
01:29:33
really big decisions on football teams
01:29:35
and strategies and stuff like that and
01:29:38
we ended up you know bu building a
01:29:40
bridge and laughing and I spilled coffee
01:29:42
over him cuz I had to drink it. I should
01:29:44
have [ __ ] thrown it all over him to
01:29:45
be honest. But um yeah, we just had a we
01:29:48
had a really good catch up and and you
01:29:50
know that they were for me some of the
01:29:53
some of the best times of my football
01:29:55
career. You know, getting to the grand
01:29:56
final
01:29:58
>> um for the first time with the Warriors.
01:30:00
Um just unlucky to lose it. You know, we
01:30:02
were right in that game
01:30:04
>> for a long period of time. Um
01:30:06
>> yeah, let's let's Yeah. So 2002 grand
01:30:08
final um against the Roosters, 80,000
01:30:11
people in Sydney. M
01:30:12
>> um yeah. What's that dressing room like
01:30:14
after the game?
01:30:16
>> Ah, it's a morg. You know, there's
01:30:18
there's there's no difference between
01:30:19
winning and losing, Dom. I don't care
01:30:21
what people tell you. You know, you you
01:30:23
win, mate. Your heroes, you know,
01:30:25
everything tastes better and you looks
01:30:28
better and feels better. And when you
01:30:29
lose, mate, you know, you're sore and
01:30:31
you you want to get home. You want to,
01:30:33
you know, get some feedback and get on
01:30:35
and,
01:30:36
>> you know, like like they say, you know,
01:30:37
you had seven days to correct it. Well,
01:30:38
you didn't have you had to wait a whole
01:30:40
year to get get to the next one. So, um,
01:30:42
>> but falling over at the last hurdle,
01:30:44
there's no shame in that, right?
01:30:46
>> No. Well, if you if you see if you think
01:30:50
about it
01:30:51
in in a nutshell, the following the year
01:30:54
before, they they didn't have a team.
01:30:56
So, they basically gone under
01:30:58
>> and they were ressigning players and
01:31:00
trying to build a team. Like, like I
01:31:01
said, when I got hired, I was the fourth
01:31:02
person hired in the in the organization.
01:31:05
We didn't even have any footballs. So,
01:31:08
to take him to the grand final the
01:31:09
following. So we made the eight that
01:31:10
year if you remember got beaten by
01:31:12
Paramea in the first game. Parameda get
01:31:14
beaten by Newcastle in the final. The
01:31:16
second year we get to the grand final
01:31:17
and we should have won it. You know what
01:31:19
I mean? The following year we get beaten
01:31:21
by Penri um and that that what I thought
01:31:25
was a great great major semi, you know.
01:31:27
Um so we sort of had that period there
01:31:32
with those players that just built that
01:31:35
belief and and coached them to believe
01:31:37
that they could play football. And I
01:31:39
just think if they could have kept that
01:31:40
team together in 2004, you know, Ando
01:31:43
made a decision to go big, we shouldn't
01:31:45
have gone, you know, I fought, you know,
01:31:47
and people don't know this story either.
01:31:49
You know, I fought with a scientist to
01:31:51
say, you know, you need to go to Ando
01:31:52
and tell them, mate, we we're big
01:31:53
enough. Kiwis are big enough. We need to
01:31:55
be fit.
01:31:55
>> But there were rule changes and teams
01:31:57
that were were coming up bigger and and
01:31:59
getting bigger. And, you know, the head
01:32:02
coach um strategy was let's get bigger.
01:32:04
But what happened was they didn't train.
01:32:06
So they got big and they got sloppy and
01:32:08
they weren't fit
01:32:09
>> and we got caught out in 2004. So um in
01:32:14
saying that the the years that we had
01:32:16
together um mate was some of the best
01:32:19
years some of the best years of my
01:32:20
football career.
01:32:22
I'm pleased to hear that story about you
01:32:24
and Daniel Anderson c c c c c c c c c c
01:32:25
c c c c c c c c c c c catching up
01:32:26
because um knowing you were coming in I
01:32:28
I I've got Stacy Jones book on my shelf
01:32:30
and this came out in 2004 2005 um and I
01:32:33
thought I wonder if um I wonder if um
01:32:35
Kempe gets a mention in here and there's
01:32:36
a whole chapter called Kempy and there's
01:32:39
there's a part in there where he talks
01:32:40
about when Daniel Anderson was coaching
01:32:42
and you were assistant coach and
01:32:43
apparently you guys weren't even even
01:32:45
talking for a time there.
01:32:46
>> Yeah. Look like there's
01:32:48
>> how did things get so bad? Oh, look.
01:32:51
There's
01:32:53
Yeah, it's a it's a it's a tough one,
01:32:55
you know, like me and him. So, we're
01:32:56
we're basically the same age except I
01:32:58
came from a professional football career
01:33:00
and Daniel came from coaching through
01:33:02
the ranks to get to where he was. And
01:33:04
he's a fantastic coach. You know, some
01:33:06
of the strategies and conversations
01:33:08
around coaching are great.
01:33:11
you know, like I said, you know, I'm I'm
01:33:13
not one to not say things as they are,
01:33:16
you know, like um and there I think
01:33:20
there was a time where he had put all
01:33:24
his eggs in the one basket and we were
01:33:26
on our our journey in 2003. Um but my
01:33:30
sister-in-law died and and I really
01:33:33
loved her, you know, like she was
01:33:35
>> she's a beautiful person. She got um
01:33:37
stomach cancer. She went through a bad
01:33:38
journey and and when they beat
01:33:40
Canterbury, Francis scored those five
01:33:42
tries that night was the week she died
01:33:43
and I went home and I said, "Well, I'm
01:33:44
not coming back, mate, until I deal with
01:33:46
this." And I couldn't believe it, but
01:33:49
things changed. You know, Rowan Smith,
01:33:51
who was Brian Smith, Daniel's mentor's
01:33:53
son, came into the he was a bit of a
01:33:55
[ __ ] you know, to be honest, the
01:33:57
way that he was carrying on. And I came
01:33:59
back and the players could see that
01:34:00
there had been a shift in the dynamic
01:34:02
between me and Ando. Um, and it sort of
01:34:06
didn't repair itself from that moment on
01:34:08
and and unfortunately, you know, that's
01:34:10
why I went to the scientists in the
01:34:12
offseason to say, you know, don't go
01:34:14
big, you know, like you got to you got
01:34:16
to push really hard here to get the boys
01:34:18
fit because I couldn't talk to Endo. You
01:34:19
know, that sort of com that conversation
01:34:21
had broken down. Um, and the other thing
01:34:24
with that too is that me and him had a
01:34:26
really good it didn't really affect the
01:34:28
the way that we spoke to players because
01:34:31
we had a good cop bad cop relationship
01:34:33
with the players as well, you know, like
01:34:35
Ando was really aggressive in the way
01:34:37
that he spoke to players, you know, and
01:34:39
he and he I've I've never said this, but
01:34:42
I've stopped two players from from
01:34:44
hitting him, you know. I'm you come into
01:34:46
the train, said, "You can't do that,
01:34:48
man. I'm gonna have to pick a side. had
01:34:49
to protect Ando, you know, like cuz I'm
01:34:51
from the old playing group. Um, but they
01:34:54
would get he would get them that wound
01:34:55
up that they would they would want to,
01:34:57
you know, start throwing punches and
01:34:59
>> um but that good cop bad cop scenario,
01:35:02
there's so many times where he'd he'd
01:35:04
try to motivate them through verbal
01:35:08
um attacks that I would have to go and
01:35:11
build them back up with a with a
01:35:13
shoulder that they could lean on and
01:35:15
don't forget about how good you are and
01:35:17
so forth. So, and it worked really well.
01:35:19
It it it did work really well.
01:35:21
>> Um, and I just think at the end of the
01:35:23
day, the the coupled with us being big
01:35:26
and unfit was that the players had had
01:35:28
enough like they had been enough talk to
01:35:31
like kids, you know what I mean?
01:35:32
>> Yeah.
01:35:32
>> Um, and that that's just an that again
01:35:35
that's a tenure thing, isn't it? When
01:35:36
you're with a with coaches, but I see
01:35:39
and I'd been through that with coaches
01:35:40
too is you know sometimes you just
01:35:42
you're done like
01:35:44
>> there's a saying you lose the dressing
01:35:45
room.
01:35:45
>> You lose that. That's when they say you
01:35:47
lose a dressing room. Well, mate,
01:35:49
>> coaches do lose a dressing room, you
01:35:51
know, and and I've been in international
01:35:52
teams where the coach has lost a
01:35:54
dressing room and I've been a club teams
01:35:56
as a player and a coach where and and
01:35:58
that's what was starting to happen. So,
01:36:00
um I've never read the chapter in
01:36:01
Stacy's book. Um
01:36:03
>> yeah, it's called come in Kempy.
01:36:04
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:36:05
>> I got a couple of other bits about that
01:36:06
to bring up.
01:36:06
>> Yeah. Every everyone's got their you
01:36:08
know, everyone's got their say, but it's
01:36:11
you know, again,
01:36:12
>> he speaks very highly of you by the way.
01:36:14
Well, Stacy, look, I look I'm Stacy
01:36:17
Jones's biggest advocate. You know,
01:36:19
Ando,
01:36:20
>> I think I asked Stace to come back when
01:36:22
I coached the Warriors as a head coach.
01:36:24
He was one guy I chased, you know, and
01:36:25
told him, "Come home. You need to go out
01:36:27
on your terms."
01:36:29
>> Um, I think he's iconically the the
01:36:31
biggest player to ever play for the
01:36:33
Warriors and if not New Zealand.
01:36:35
>> Um, and I pushed really hard for him to
01:36:37
get that Kiwi coaches job, you know what
01:36:38
I mean? So,
01:36:40
>> it's a it's a it's an interesting one
01:36:43
when you hear stories from players in
01:36:46
and around their story of what happened,
01:36:50
but I can take half of those stories and
01:36:51
say, "Well, actually, that's not what
01:36:53
really happened, you know, because I'm
01:36:55
behind closed doors in a different
01:36:56
conversation." Um but yeah, one thing
01:37:00
one thing Stacy does um say uh just
01:37:03
before you lost your job at the
01:37:04
Warriors, which he talked about before,
01:37:05
he said there's an end ofear review and
01:37:08
um he when he had his interview, he
01:37:09
noticed there were lots of questions
01:37:10
like based around you and he just had a
01:37:13
was sort of woring over in his mind like
01:37:15
is this a stitch up like you know are
01:37:16
they trying to stitch the coach up?
01:37:18
>> Yeah. And look again like Tony now knows
01:37:23
that you know like there's
01:37:24
>> the the way that the way that you know
01:37:26
CEOs work at clubs is they're going to
01:37:28
throw the coach under the bus before the
01:37:29
CEO gets looked at.
01:37:31
>> You know I always knew
01:37:33
>> um that that was going to be an issue
01:37:35
for me. You know like Mick when he was
01:37:38
there and and I had to hold try and hold
01:37:40
my spot and it wasn't I got to say 2004
01:37:43
2005 wasn't a very good working
01:37:45
environment. you know, when all I wanted
01:37:47
to do was win NRL games, you sort of
01:37:50
didn't have that um backup, you know,
01:37:53
which you which you're probably seeing
01:37:54
at the moment. They got really well off
01:37:56
the field now and now the team's
01:37:57
starting to perform. Um you know,
01:37:59
there's so many different pieces to the
01:38:01
puzzle that have to come together. Um
01:38:04
and and and it and it was tough, but
01:38:06
again, I'm I'm never ever going to
01:38:08
regret it. You know, I gave it I gave my
01:38:10
best. Um, you know, there's, like I said
01:38:12
about Hardies, there's parts of it that
01:38:14
I I thought could have been handled
01:38:15
better. Um, but, you know, tell me how
01:38:19
many other BS in New Zealand have had a
01:38:20
chance to coach Warriors.
01:38:24
>> Yeah. The most pleasing part for me is
01:38:25
the the bit about you and Daniel
01:38:26
Anderson still being in in contact. When
01:38:28
when a surfing accident like that
01:38:30
happens and someone's confined to a
01:38:31
chair, suddenly it it gives you a bit of
01:38:33
perspective, eh? It's just [ __ ]
01:38:34
sport. It is. Well, and and that's
01:38:36
that's the other thing, you know, like
01:38:38
um the water off a duck's back type type
01:38:41
scenario,
01:38:42
>> you know, they Ando came over. So So
01:38:45
funny story, Ando came over in October.
01:38:47
So him and our manager Paul came over
01:38:49
who was a manager of our Daniel's best
01:38:51
mate was a manager.
01:38:52
>> He's still in a chair.
01:38:53
>> He's still Yeah, he's still in need,
01:38:55
>> but he's got some assistant. Yes. Yes.
01:38:57
Um
01:38:59
>> but they came over so he was fine. Um
01:39:01
and we sort of built started building
01:39:03
the bridge and I took him out at Ponyby
01:39:04
up here to hoppers and had a few beers
01:39:06
and a laugh and crack up and he'd been
01:39:08
invited back and you know he was saying
01:39:10
may not be invited back but no one's
01:39:12
contacted me and I was well stay with me
01:39:14
man let's let's have a few beers and
01:39:15
have a catch up
01:39:16
>> and then I get a phone call a couple of
01:39:18
months later from Paul and said oh man
01:39:20
some bad news I was in shock I was like
01:39:22
yeah they brought Daniel back he died on
01:39:23
the beach and um you I was like I got to
01:39:26
get over there and see him you know like
01:39:28
you know whatever's happened between me
01:39:29
and
01:39:30
Um, I'm just going to get over there and
01:39:32
say, "Hey, man." Like, you know, [ __ ]
01:39:34
it's only it's only footy bygones.
01:39:36
>> You're decent guy. So, um, yeah, it's
01:39:40
it's it's funny, Dom, I think, you know,
01:39:45
there's a lot of that stuff happening as
01:39:48
I get older, you know, like people that
01:39:50
I, you know, if I get a chance to say
01:39:52
thank you to them for what they did for
01:39:55
me. Um, I'll I will do that, you know,
01:39:58
especially,
01:39:59
>> you know, people that have had a
01:40:00
significant part to play in my journey.
01:40:04
Um cuz cuz even even at 58 there's still
01:40:07
a lot for me to learn, you know. Um and
01:40:11
I'm always looking for the next thing to
01:40:13
do, you know. I I think that's just you
01:40:16
know I'm a what do they call it? Like a
01:40:19
um uh a active relaxer.
01:40:23
>> Um so I've got to be I've got to be
01:40:25
doing something and
01:40:26
>> you know if it's to do with sport and I
01:40:28
said this I said this to my mate the
01:40:29
other day, you know, look I've got so
01:40:30
much that I still think I can offer
01:40:32
sport. um just got turned down this
01:40:34
morning for the St. Helen CEO role, you
01:40:36
know, so um I was shortlisted for that
01:40:38
and and I'm still looking at the next
01:40:41
thing that I can do in sport. So, you
01:40:43
know, I'm I'm just not going to I'm just
01:40:45
going to roll over and and get out of
01:40:46
the get out of the game that's given me
01:40:48
so much. I still think I got more to
01:40:49
give to it.
01:40:50
>> Yeah, 100% you do. Um just a couple more
01:40:53
on that Warriors thing. So, yeah, in
01:40:54
your last year there, Ivan Ivan Clearary
01:40:56
was your assistant coach. He's gone on
01:40:58
to be like like one of the one of the
01:40:59
great coaches. Um, yeah. How was he at
01:41:02
the time? Could could you could you see
01:41:04
in him that he was going to go on to do
01:41:05
great things?
01:41:07
>> I didn't really to be to be brutally
01:41:09
honest at the time I didn't really give
01:41:10
it a hell of a lot of thought. um
01:41:13
because I was battling just my own
01:41:15
position at the time, you know, but I
01:41:16
had Campo and Ivan, you know, we'd spoke
01:41:20
about getting some good coaches back um
01:41:22
to sort of help me out, you know, and
01:41:24
then and and then, you know, we talked
01:41:25
about what sort of players that we
01:41:27
wanted when Ruben and Pricey came into
01:41:28
the side and we're sort of rebuilding at
01:41:31
the time. And Ivan Ivan's very very
01:41:33
methodical, you know what I mean? like
01:41:35
he he's he's thoughtful and and
01:41:39
not very reactive, whereas I'm a little
01:41:41
bit, you know, I'm going to go straight,
01:41:43
you know, straight away and and wear my
01:41:45
heart on the sleeve type thing. So, um
01:41:48
to see what Ivan's done through his
01:41:50
career and you know, he's he's done
01:41:54
fantastic [ __ ] fantastic, man. But
01:41:56
you you look at the sides and you and
01:41:58
you go a lot of that um that style was
01:42:03
actually through his time of the
01:42:04
Warriors, you know, right from the
01:42:06
beginning. Like when you look at Kick
01:42:07
out on the left edge and the centers and
01:42:09
the and the big wingers and you know how
01:42:12
he's got his side playing and the
01:42:13
percentages and bits and pieces like
01:42:15
that. Um a lot of the grounding
01:42:18
personally I think has come out of his
01:42:19
time at the Warriors. And the other big
01:42:21
part of that too is understanding the
01:42:22
Polynesian mix. you know, spending all
01:42:25
that time here as a player um in amongst
01:42:28
the core group of guys with the Alley's
01:42:30
and the Clintons and and the likes and
01:42:32
getting to know how they operate to go
01:42:34
back to Penri where it's a high high
01:42:36
Polynesian content player,
01:42:38
>> it's just been a a perfect fit for him.
01:42:40
So, um having the best half back in the
01:42:43
competition too as a son is is always a
01:42:45
bonus. Uh but yeah, no look, it's it's
01:42:48
great to look and and and have some
01:42:50
small part to play, you know, like that
01:42:51
your coaching career, you know, was part
01:42:54
of our coaching career and
01:42:56
>> and you've gone on to to win so many so
01:42:58
many finals. So, you know, that's that's
01:43:00
coaching dreams. You know,
01:43:03
>> a lot of people listening to this or
01:43:04
watching this podcast will have a a
01:43:06
situation in their life where they get
01:43:08
fired from a job. Um but very few will
01:43:11
will have it done so publicly and so so
01:43:13
brutally. What's what's that like? It's
01:43:15
an experience that none of us will ever
01:43:18
go go through. That must be
01:43:19
>> Yeah, it's it it's tough. It is tough,
01:43:21
you know, like it's, you know, I think
01:43:24
from
01:43:26
there's tears. There's there's tears and
01:43:28
there's, you know, the checking in with
01:43:31
yourself. Are you good enough? You know,
01:43:34
it's
01:43:36
a little bit of imposter syndrome that
01:43:38
that that is on the back of it. Um,
01:43:40
>> I must shake your confidence, eh? Yeah,
01:43:43
it's it it's time to reflect, you know,
01:43:46
especially when you got, you know,
01:43:49
again, when I when that happened to me,
01:43:51
I was 35, you know, so
01:43:53
>> when you when you when you come to this
01:43:55
stage, it's not so difficult, you know,
01:43:58
cuz you've you've got a bit more of a
01:43:59
mature head on your shoulders and you
01:44:01
can reason with right and wrong um quite
01:44:04
easily. But when you're taken apart like
01:44:06
that um in front of a camera and and
01:44:09
people have been banging for your blood
01:44:11
all season anyway uh it's a bit it's a
01:44:13
bit of sweet ending to you know [ __ ]
01:44:15
thank god I'm out of it and then but I
01:44:17
didn't want to get out of it like that
01:44:19
type thing you know so um but don't
01:44:21
they'll be lying to you if they said it
01:44:23
wasn't tough you know to deal with it
01:44:25
and
01:44:26
>> and the more you deal with it and the
01:44:28
more times it happens is why those
01:44:29
coaches that keep going on the merry go
01:44:31
round and they've got quite good at you
01:44:33
know picking up checks and going to pick
01:44:35
up another job. Um, but you know, for
01:44:38
me, I I guess that once that door
01:44:41
closes, there's always another one that
01:44:43
opens. And
01:44:45
>> um, I went from coaching the Warriors in
01:44:48
a professional environment. I got a
01:44:49
phone call from Walder Little. Um, who
01:44:51
said, "Why don't you come and co help me
01:44:53
coach at Glenfield?" And we took
01:44:54
Glenfield to the final of the Northshore
01:44:56
the following year. First training
01:44:57
session, I showed up with my gum boots
01:44:59
and a rain jacket. You know, I had no no
01:45:01
clipboard. I didn't have to worry about
01:45:02
the players. I ended up getting home at
01:45:04
like 2:00 in the morning cuz we went to
01:45:05
the pub up the road and got tanked up.
01:45:07
Um, and it was, you know, I've never
01:45:10
said this to Walder, but it was just
01:45:11
what I needed was a was a real dose of
01:45:14
reality. Um,
01:45:15
>> but you know, here's a guy that could
01:45:17
see it and said, "Bro, just come and
01:45:20
come and hang out with me. We'll just
01:45:21
hang around for the season. You've got
01:45:23
stuff to give."
01:45:24
>> So, you know, I just got his boys fit.
01:45:26
That's all I did. And let's have some
01:45:28
fun for the year. and and um it's a bit
01:45:32
it's a bit easier when you got no
01:45:34
cameras. I remember I remember the
01:45:36
psychologist going on TV one or
01:45:38
something like this saying, "I've got an
01:45:40
eye condition. I'm I often got to have
01:45:41
shades on. I can't see properly in the
01:45:44
in the glare." They in Newcastle they
01:45:46
try to get me to wear purple contacts.
01:45:50
So, I've always had shades on no matter
01:45:52
what. I've always got shades on, you
01:45:53
know. And um I remember the psychologist
01:45:56
coming on just before I got sacked and
01:45:58
goes, "He's hiding something."
01:46:01
I was like, "No [ __ ] shit." Yeah,
01:46:03
you've been through what I've been
01:46:04
through. I'm [ __ ] hiding plenty.
01:46:05
Don't worry about that. You know what I
01:46:07
mean? But I'm just sitting there going,
01:46:09
"Oh my god, they've got this lady
01:46:12
talking about I'm hiding something when
01:46:15
I'm [ __ ] my jobs. It's me job I'm
01:46:17
trying to [ __ ] keep,
01:46:19
>> you know." Um but yeah, it's a it's it
01:46:22
it's when you've got that glaring light
01:46:25
on you, you know, it's really it's
01:46:28
really people are bullshitting to you
01:46:29
and they say it doesn't affect me.
01:46:31
>> It does, but it's not the effect, it's
01:46:34
the response,
01:46:36
>> you know. So if it takes you a week, if
01:46:38
it takes you a month, if it takes you a
01:46:40
year, how do you respond to that? And
01:46:43
I've always been the one where I've
01:46:45
gone, what's next?
01:46:48
you know what is what is it? So, you
01:46:50
know, at the moment I'm between roles.
01:46:52
Um I was looking at buying a business.
01:46:54
It didn't work out. So, now I'm looking
01:46:56
at what what's next. You know, it could
01:46:58
be driving a truck. It could be helping
01:47:00
another business out. It could be
01:47:02
working with um you know um people that
01:47:07
are in a little bit of trouble or
01:47:08
whatever.
01:47:09
>> But I'm sort of sitting over here going,
01:47:11
I'm not worried about that now.
01:47:13
>> I'm worried about what's coming next.
01:47:15
>> Yeah.
01:47:16
you you find out who your friends are
01:47:18
when you go through.
01:47:19
>> Well, I don't have many friends.
01:47:20
>> Yeah.
01:47:20
>> You know, like I and I'll tell this to a
01:47:22
lot of people. You count your friends on
01:47:24
both hands.
01:47:25
>> If you're lucky, you can count them on
01:47:27
both. And
01:47:28
>> you know, friends are I've got a lot of
01:47:30
acquaintances.
01:47:32
You know, but friends, like a fine
01:47:35
friend for me,
01:47:37
>> you know, a friend is someone who's
01:47:39
going to cry with you, who's going to
01:47:40
love with you, who's going to, you know,
01:47:43
work through things with you, who's
01:47:44
going to be there from day one.
01:47:46
>> Yeah. Lean in when everyone else leans
01:47:47
out.
01:47:48
>> 100%. 100%.
01:47:49
>> Yeah. My my circle is so tight, eh?
01:47:52
>> Yeah.
01:47:52
>> Super super small.
01:47:54
>> I can count on every every one of them.
01:47:56
>> That's exactly right. And you know,
01:47:58
again, I heard another saying, you know,
01:47:59
like a um
01:48:02
a silent man is a is a man who's happy
01:48:05
with himself.
01:48:06
>> You know what I mean? So, you don't have
01:48:08
to have a circle of friends around you
01:48:10
patting you on the back all the time.
01:48:12
>> I don't want that. I don't I don't want
01:48:14
pats on the back, you know? I want to I
01:48:16
want a mate that phones me up and says,
01:48:18
"How's things?"
01:48:19
>> Me and my me and my mate will phone us
01:48:20
each other up at least once a Fortnite
01:48:22
like just talk about how is how are you?
01:48:25
Not like you know you're driving a flash
01:48:27
car or you got a big house or how many
01:48:29
how many friends have you got type
01:48:30
thing. It's like this is what you you
01:48:33
talk about. So um yeah acquaintances
01:48:37
thousands
01:48:39
>> you know but friends friends are yeah
01:48:41
friends are friends and family um you
01:48:44
count on both hands.
01:48:46
>> You've been you've been super open today
01:48:48
and um there's been some real moments of
01:48:50
vulnerability. Have you always been good
01:48:52
at communicating like this or were you
01:48:53
quite staunch as a young fella?
01:48:56
Um well
01:49:00
I got no people tell you you got tell
01:49:02
him to shut up cuz he's got no problem
01:49:03
talking. Yeah. So I did I did a thing
01:49:06
with Stephie the other night and he said
01:49:08
yes. He goes yes uncle. Okay. You got to
01:49:11
I know mate we're not I got to turn your
01:49:13
mic off cuz you talk too much. Um
01:49:15
>> you got to remember where I come from
01:49:17
you know like I wasn't allowed to talk
01:49:18
you know. I wasn't allowed opinion. I I
01:49:20
I remember in Newcastle when I first
01:49:22
went there and Mike the chairman and I
01:49:25
stayed with him and his wife and his
01:49:26
four sons and and they're mad cricketers
01:49:29
and they're watching the Aussie cricket
01:49:30
team play and if you if you know Aussie
01:49:32
Aussies and Aussie cricket it's like all
01:49:34
blacks you know
01:49:35
>> and they're arguing boys are arguing
01:49:37
with their father about who's the better
01:49:39
bat batsman and who's the better bowler
01:49:41
and all this sort of [ __ ] and I'm
01:49:42
getting worked up on the couch cuz I'm
01:49:44
saying you don't [ __ ] talk to your
01:49:45
father like that you know what I mean
01:49:47
and I'm thinking he's he's talking to
01:49:49
Um, and I got up and went to bed. So,
01:49:51
I'd had I'd had enough of this
01:49:54
discussion. And I didn't know it was a
01:49:56
discussion, did I? I thought these boys
01:49:58
should never talk to their father like
01:49:59
that out of respect.
01:50:00
>> Um, I'll get up for breakfast the next
01:50:02
morning. And Mike comes to sits down. He
01:50:03
goes, "Can we just have a chat?" And I
01:50:05
said, "Yeah." I said, "What?" He goes,
01:50:05
"What was that last night?" I said,
01:50:07
"What do you mean?" He goes, "Why'd you
01:50:08
go to bed early?" I said, "Oh, in my
01:50:11
household, mate, we're not allowed to
01:50:12
talk like that to our father." He said,
01:50:14
"I wanted to I wanted to get up and
01:50:15
start swinging at the boys, you know."
01:50:18
And he said, "Oh, that's called
01:50:19
discussion, mate." He said, "I encourage
01:50:22
that." And again, there's another
01:50:24
picture, you know. So, my kids and my
01:50:28
daughter, my daughter come to me. My
01:50:29
daughter was a great sports person. I
01:50:32
thought she was going to play nipple for
01:50:33
New Zealand. And she comes back and my
01:50:36
partner said, "Um,
01:50:38
your daughter wants to chat with you."
01:50:40
And I'm like, "Okay." And she comes and
01:50:43
she goes, "Right." And gives me this
01:50:45
essay of why she's not playing net
01:50:47
anymore. and she all she wants to do is
01:50:48
concentrate on education. She was
01:50:49
headgill
01:50:51
college, you know, biggest school in New
01:50:52
Zealand.
01:50:54
>> And I went I made I had no come back to
01:50:57
say, "Shut up. You [ __ ] play nipple."
01:50:59
And walked out of the house giggling to
01:51:01
myself going, "Oh my god." And then she
01:51:05
comes out and she says, "Have you got
01:51:06
anything else to say, Dad? Cuz I've got
01:51:08
more to finish."
01:51:14
So, so when you're talking about when
01:51:17
you're talking about have you been have
01:51:19
you been able to I I'm a hell of a lot
01:51:22
better Dom at expression. Um I think
01:51:25
it's time, you know,
01:51:27
>> you get old Yeah. When you get older,
01:51:29
you just um you learn what's important
01:51:31
and what matters and what doesn't.
01:51:32
>> Yeah. And and to be honest, I don't give
01:51:34
a [ __ ] mate. You know, like to to be to
01:51:36
be honest, like I don't care what people
01:51:38
[ __ ] think, you know? I I know how
01:51:40
I've lived. Um I know there's things
01:51:42
that I've done wrong and there's some
01:51:44
[ __ ] things that I've done right.
01:51:46
>> Um and to be honest, I don't give two
01:51:48
hoots about what you [ __ ] think about
01:51:50
me,
01:51:50
>> you know? But there's there's two traits
01:51:53
and people always tell who know me is he
01:51:56
will do what he says he will do. So what
01:51:58
he says he will do, he will do and you
01:52:00
can [ __ ] trust him. And that's one of
01:52:02
my biggest my biggest um can be one of
01:52:04
my biggest faults as well cuz I trust
01:52:06
people too much.
01:52:08
>> You know, I've been burnt that many
01:52:10
times by people like the like the John
01:52:13
Harts those type of situations where I
01:52:16
Yeah, I trust I trust you, you know. Um,
01:52:19
and as I've got older, you know, I've
01:52:21
I've I've just decided myself, well,
01:52:24
mate, maybe just relax a little bit on
01:52:26
that side of things, you know, like cuz
01:52:28
I can I can name half a dozen BS and
01:52:30
gone, [ __ ] I I had your back,
01:52:33
>> you know, if you wanted if you I would
01:52:34
be the B you take me to war with war
01:52:36
with you,
01:52:36
>> but then when you in hindsight now and
01:52:38
going, [ __ ] thank God didn't go to war
01:52:40
with you, mate. You would have shot me
01:52:42
in the back.
01:52:44
Um, yeah, I I I can't remember uh what
01:52:47
your statement was when you left the
01:52:48
Warriors, but in in Stacy's book, he he
01:52:51
like applauds you for leaving with like
01:52:52
dignity and grace and manner.
01:52:54
>> Yeah, it's it's Oh, it's it's so great
01:52:57
to hear. Like, you made my day, mate.
01:52:59
Like, I haven't read that. I'm [ __ ]
01:53:00
going to go and find it now and have a
01:53:02
have a read of it.
01:53:03
It wasn't it wasn't I couldn't say
01:53:07
anything about anybody or or
01:53:10
I couldn't I couldn't throw rocks at
01:53:13
this this this
01:53:16
um job that I had, you know, all these
01:53:18
people cuz I love them all. I loved what
01:53:20
I do and I'd loved it for so many years.
01:53:22
And that's what I when I left and made
01:53:24
my closing statement, it was to say I
01:53:27
basically wanted to thank Rugby League.
01:53:29
And I wasn't thanking the Warriors. I
01:53:32
was thanking my parents for driving me
01:53:34
to the football games for all of my
01:53:36
mates that helped me make those teams,
01:53:38
you know, that played and took [ __ ] from
01:53:40
me all those years.
01:53:42
>> Um, right through to my family having to
01:53:45
put up with a professional sportsman.
01:53:46
Ain't [ __ ] easy, you know what I
01:53:48
mean? Um, to all of my teammates
01:53:50
encouraging me to at the at the end,
01:53:54
this is where I am with you guys and
01:53:55
thanks a lot for giving me these
01:53:57
wonderful five years coaching the the
01:53:59
Warriors as a club. Yeah. People say to
01:54:00
me like, "Why are you [ __ ] bagging
01:54:02
the Warriors?" I'm not bagging them, you
01:54:04
idiot. I'm giving my opinion of things
01:54:06
that I think could be done better or how
01:54:09
I see things. They're actually my club
01:54:11
and and and and what do you know? Well,
01:54:13
I [ __ ] coached them for 5 years,
01:54:16
>> you know what I mean? And it some people
01:54:18
are so that's just go it's that's
01:54:21
keyboard [ __ ] You know what I mean?
01:54:22
It's like rugby league if you know the
01:54:26
people and they they are the rugby
01:54:30
league people are the best people in the
01:54:32
sports
01:54:33
>> domain cuz they get nothing. They get
01:54:36
[ __ ] done and they make make sure that
01:54:38
you have a shitload of fun doing it. And
01:54:40
now they're reaping the awards since
01:54:41
2023 when the WS thing kicked off,
01:54:44
>> you know, and and when you look at the
01:54:46
demographic now that the Warriors got
01:54:47
totally changed, you know, that
01:54:49
crossover crowd that's come from Rugby
01:54:51
Union now because the Warriors have got
01:54:52
it right. Rugby Union handed it to the
01:54:54
Warriors on a
01:54:56
>> um you know on a [ __ ] on a on a rule
01:54:59
change.
01:55:00
>> What we got to be careful here is that
01:55:02
the that the NRL don't hand it back to
01:55:03
rugby. You know, I text Joey on Sunday
01:55:06
and I said, "It's a game of [ __ ]
01:55:07
touch. These referees are killing the
01:55:09
game
01:55:09
>> cuz you see it. See, as a ex coach and
01:55:12
ex player, you see it differently."
01:55:13
>> Um, and for us at home, it's definitely
01:55:15
home home ground advantage because of
01:55:17
this the 66 again, you know. So, make
01:55:19
hell the sun shines, boys,
01:55:21
>> because they'll kind of come and change
01:55:22
that rule again and all of a sudden
01:55:24
she's an even playing field again.
01:55:25
>> Yeah.
01:55:26
>> You love that club, eh? And the sport.
01:55:28
I' I absolutely love the club and I've
01:55:31
got I I absolutely love the sport and
01:55:33
I've got two clubs in the Newcastle and
01:55:35
the Warriors,
01:55:36
>> you know. I'd love
01:55:37
>> if they were in if they were in a grand
01:55:38
final together.
01:55:39
>> Oh, [ __ ] man. Well, I'd be in both
01:55:41
changing rooms, you know.
01:55:42
>> Yeah.
01:55:43
>> So, um New I when when I was at
01:55:46
Newcastle,
01:55:48
there's systemic racism at the time
01:55:51
there. I got in a bit of trouble for
01:55:53
that as well. You know, like I stood my
01:55:54
ground. Um, one of the players called
01:55:58
um, a mate of mine, Andrew Tang attire,
01:56:00
a black so and so. I ended up having a
01:56:02
[ __ ] fist fight with him in a pub
01:56:03
about it. Um, I was sort of known for
01:56:06
that back there in Newcastle. Um, but
01:56:09
Newcastle was where my dreams came true,
01:56:11
you know what I mean? It's was right on
01:56:14
the coast. I love surfing from Tanaki.
01:56:17
It had everything, you know, and then
01:56:19
coming back to coach the Warriors and
01:56:20
just seeing it build over the last 25
01:56:23
years. You got to remember that like I'm
01:56:24
since 2000. It's been here since 95
01:56:27
>> and I didn't get to see those first 5
01:56:29
years was overseas, but since 2000 I've
01:56:30
seen it
01:56:31
>> go up and down like this. Sorry about
01:56:33
the mic. Um,
01:56:36
>> it's on a absolute crest of a wave at
01:56:38
the moment. And the only thing that is
01:56:40
going to [ __ ] it up are these rule
01:56:42
changes. You know what I mean? They're
01:56:44
gonna they're gonna somehow turn it into
01:56:47
something that it's not. And for the
01:56:48
purist at the moment, such as myself and
01:56:51
guys that are watching it going, leave
01:56:53
the the rules alone and let it be a
01:56:56
contest. People aren't going to want to
01:56:58
watch 60 point games, 60 to 20, 40 to
01:57:01
10, you know what I mean? They want to
01:57:03
see a contest for 80 minutes. Um, and
01:57:05
that's my fear at the moment. Um, but
01:57:07
yeah, I', as you can tell, I'm
01:57:09
passionate. Love it.
01:57:10
>> Are the Warriors ever going to win?
01:57:12
>> 100%.
01:57:13
>> Yeah, I think I think they will. I
01:57:15
think, you know, again, they're sort of
01:57:18
similar to the Kiwis is like once they
01:57:20
get there, it's going to be hard to
01:57:21
knock them off,
01:57:22
>> but they've got so many things against
01:57:24
them. They got travel,
01:57:26
they've got weather issues. You know,
01:57:28
it's cold, wet, um, you know, you've got
01:57:32
Australians that want to come over here
01:57:34
for a lot more than what they they would
01:57:37
get paid in Australia.
01:57:38
>> So, you've got so much so much not going
01:57:41
for you, but I think they're operating
01:57:43
really well at the moment. Um, they're
01:57:46
doing a great job off the football
01:57:47
field. Like you see the different
01:57:49
demographic and the crowds and the
01:57:50
socials and and I think this stuff here
01:57:53
like media wise is is really important.
01:57:55
You know, like they're pulling in so
01:57:57
many different people across the world
01:57:58
now. Um, supporting uh this this club
01:58:02
here that when once they do get it right
01:58:03
on the football field, they've going to
01:58:04
find it really hard to get it wrong
01:58:06
again cuz people go, "Shit, I want to be
01:58:09
involved in that club." So I think they
01:58:11
you know they've been there what twice
01:58:13
or three times now to a final um 2011
01:58:18
2002
01:58:20
one other could be wrong. Um but I think
01:58:24
once they get there Dom it's yeah it'll
01:58:27
be a hell of a party. It's goosebump
01:58:30
stuff when you see the pack stands at go
01:58:33
media stadiums chanting the warriors
01:58:34
winning song which was originally like a
01:58:36
just a dressing room sort of chant that
01:58:38
they
01:58:38
>> so so let's clear this one up. So I got
01:58:42
asked if I knew anyone that could write
01:58:44
a song. Yeah. So Mick Mick asked me so I
01:58:47
went to Peter Erlich and asked him to
01:58:49
write us a team song. So that song that
01:58:51
everyone sings is written by Peter
01:58:53
Erlich. It's been changed cuz it's taken
01:58:56
the swear words out of it, but it's
01:58:58
actually was written in 2001 by Pete
01:59:01
>> actually by Pete Erlich.
01:59:03
>> Do you know the words?
01:59:04
>> We are the Warriors.
01:59:05
>> We are the team. We are the Warriors.
01:59:06
That's all you [ __ ] need. So stand up
01:59:09
and shout it. Shout it to the end. We
01:59:10
are the Warriors 100%. So he Yeah, he
01:59:14
wrote that. Man, I don't sing it, but we
01:59:16
sung it plenty back in those days, but
01:59:19
he um he wrote that song. Um, Ando was
01:59:24
like, "Let's put a few [ __ ] swear
01:59:25
words in there, you know, get it get it
01:59:27
pumped up." And yeah, now when they sing
01:59:29
it at at the game, so when I was I've
01:59:32
done I'd commentated there for five or
01:59:34
six years at the Warriors for the radio
01:59:36
stations on the sport and um with Alan
01:59:39
Mack and and of course Sammy Hwitt and
01:59:41
when you the last few years was they
01:59:43
stand up in the crowd and put it up on
01:59:44
the screen and they start seeing it,
01:59:46
it's like,
01:59:47
>> "Oh man, that's that's a team song, you
01:59:49
know." So yeah, I the support's
01:59:52
fantastic. You know, you you you know
01:59:55
what the warrior support can be like cuz
01:59:58
when Origin came around um and grew to
02:00:02
what it's grown like, you see it every
02:00:04
year
02:00:05
>> since the 80s of what it's grown to. So
02:00:08
that's where if you want to model what
02:00:10
support can look like if the Warriors
02:00:11
start winning, it's going to look like
02:00:13
origin support. You know what I mean? So
02:00:16
>> yeah, they'll get there. I think they'll
02:00:17
get there. you you mentioned just then
02:00:19
in that answer about the commentary
02:00:20
stuff you've done. You've done quite a
02:00:21
bit of media stuff as well. Breakfast
02:00:23
show on sins with um Israel Israel is um
02:00:27
yeah actually I found your um exit quote
02:00:29
online after you were dumped or made
02:00:31
redundant whatever um
02:00:34
>> and it's it's it's wonderful. It's
02:00:35
really um graceful. Uh I am thankful for
02:00:38
having such a big opportunity to be a
02:00:40
breakfast host. Hell, who would have
02:00:42
thought who would have thought that?
02:00:43
Business is business. Uh there are
02:00:46
success and failure stories all the
02:00:47
time. I would like to think that Izzy
02:00:48
and Kempy were a success.
02:00:50
>> Yeah. Yeah.
02:00:51
>> And it's not my style. It's not my style
02:00:54
to, you know, and and and of course Sans
02:00:57
was going through the the the
02:01:00
um sale to Entain and Entain went with
02:01:03
Scotty Stevenson with Izzy for breakfast
02:01:05
and mate, it's like you lose your
02:01:07
position in a team. You go you go and
02:01:08
join another club, you know what I mean?
02:01:10
So, um I'd set a goal. So, Marty
02:01:13
Develin, good mate of mine. I started
02:01:14
doing some when he was 1 ZB I'd go and
02:01:17
do the odd sad day with him and Tony V
02:01:18
and all them guys and talk rugby league
02:01:20
and I was and I was I thought all right
02:01:22
with it and and they were like come on
02:01:24
in man like do it
02:01:25
>> and Marty gave me a shot at a night spot
02:01:27
on a Sunday night
02:01:29
>> so I would actually go in and I'd do the
02:01:30
Sunday show just before they closed down
02:01:33
radio sport
02:01:34
>> so I did maybe a month of that and I and
02:01:36
I got to like it so I set a goal so I
02:01:39
wrote a little goal on my vision board
02:01:40
and had my own breakfast show well I
02:01:42
didn't know that you I went and filled
02:01:45
in in sport sport nation over a
02:01:47
Christmas period for Izzy cuz Izzy went
02:01:49
on his Christmas break that Baz McCullum
02:01:52
was going to get the English job and
02:01:53
then they came to me and said, "Do you
02:01:55
want the breakfast job?"
02:01:56
>> And I'd go, "Well, yeah, it's my goal.
02:01:58
I'm going to do that." You know, and and
02:01:59
that's, you know, those opportunities
02:02:01
that you get, you just grab with both
02:02:02
hands. And um I did that job for two
02:02:05
years. Um I've loved media. I remember
02:02:07
Baya Mackey. Um Bailey used to come and
02:02:11
he was a young TV3 reporter for um the
02:02:14
news and and no Ando wouldn't give him
02:02:17
any time but he was a young mai reporter
02:02:19
so I say who do you want and he go can I
02:02:21
get this guy and I'd go and get him and
02:02:23
then when I lost my job and went out the
02:02:24
way that I did the first one of the
02:02:26
first guys to give me a call was Bailey
02:02:27
Mackey and he was a sport producer for
02:02:29
Marty television and he said oh what are
02:02:31
you doing I said oh not much man lost
02:02:34
just lost my job and he goes yeah I know
02:02:36
that he says have you thought about
02:02:37
commentating
02:02:38
And I, oh yeah, I'll give it a crack. He
02:02:40
says, well, come and we um I'll give you
02:02:42
a job working on Marty television as a
02:02:44
commentator,
02:02:45
>> you know what I mean? So, that's
02:02:46
basically how I got my my start through
02:02:49
Marty and and Bailey.
02:02:51
>> And then the rest was I've had a
02:02:53
breakfast show and like I said to you,
02:02:54
now I'm looking at starting up my own
02:02:56
podcast.
02:02:57
>> Um cuz you you know talk talk with an
02:02:59
underwater with a mouthful of marbles as
02:03:00
you might say.
02:03:04
So there there's so much you've done,
02:03:06
rugby league, player, coach, admin,
02:03:08
commentator. Um, I've heard you say that
02:03:10
your most important contribution might
02:03:11
still lie ahead.
02:03:13
>> I read that somewhere. What what do you
02:03:15
mean? What do you think it is?
02:03:17
Well, you know, I've got this this thing
02:03:18
about community and giving back and and
02:03:21
>> you know, my son's doing a he's a he's a
02:03:25
he's a lawyer, but he's working for
02:03:26
Oakland University with first year law
02:03:28
students and doing a project um at the
02:03:30
moment and he's looking at um this
02:03:34
stuff, you know, and
02:03:36
>> and that sort of community stuff and
02:03:38
helping people understand, you know,
02:03:40
like it's it's easy to tell your story,
02:03:42
but it's actually hard to understand it
02:03:45
because you don't live it, you know, and
02:03:47
and there's so many like um instances
02:03:52
which you recognize and go, man, if only
02:03:55
someone could really understand what's
02:03:56
going on there. You know, you you you're
02:03:59
talking about the problem. You're not
02:04:00
dealing with the problem and you're
02:04:02
maybe dealing with the wrong part of the
02:04:03
problem. Um so I, you know, personally I
02:04:07
think that there's a little bit more for
02:04:09
me still to do with the community. Um I
02:04:12
love giving back to the community. It's
02:04:13
it's something I've you know I've done
02:04:16
down in my home. You know I used to go
02:04:17
back to my high school every year and
02:04:19
talk. I met you know just recently I was
02:04:22
out with um
02:04:25
my wife up in Ponmbbe and a young guy
02:04:27
walked up to me and he he said and and
02:04:29
this has happened to me quite often and
02:04:30
he said I remember you coming down and
02:04:32
giving a talk at our school and it
02:04:35
changed my life. I've now gone on and
02:04:37
done this. You know what I mean? So, um,
02:04:40
a lot of those storytelling,
02:04:42
um, situations that I put myself in was
02:04:45
basically telling the story that I've
02:04:47
basically told you today in a more
02:04:49
confined environment.
02:04:51
>> Um, to break what I call down that
02:04:54
cordway and and take it off so that you
02:04:56
can open up and listen to what that
02:04:59
change can look like,
02:05:01
>> you know. Um, and if I was to give any
02:05:04
advice to someone is like the the one of
02:05:05
the one of the strongest
02:05:09
um,
02:05:11
one of the strongest attributes that you
02:05:13
could help yourself with is creating a
02:05:16
vision board. You know, because when I
02:05:20
go back through my life and look at the
02:05:21
pictures in my life that were in my head
02:05:23
that I converted into a goal that I now
02:05:26
have on a vision board, it's amazing how
02:05:29
often those pictures change because you
02:05:32
believe in them.
02:05:33
>> Um, and I've I'm just I've got a young a
02:05:36
young painter working at my place at the
02:05:38
moment painting a house and uh he's 15.
02:05:40
He's left school, doesn't know what he's
02:05:42
going to do. Um, and I'm working on him
02:05:45
on a vision board with him at the
02:05:47
moment, you know, because it's not you.
02:05:50
Well, that what I'm saying is you don't
02:05:52
know what environment he's coming from.
02:05:54
He just needs a different picture.
02:05:56
>> And I think there's so much in just that
02:05:59
that that saying, you know, why why you
02:06:03
think about it now all of our young
02:06:04
people got different pictures in their
02:06:05
hands got on Apple iPhone, you know,
02:06:07
it's changing all the time, but why
02:06:09
couldn't you create your own picture,
02:06:11
>> you know? So I think we're getting stuck
02:06:14
in that part at the moment listening to
02:06:17
rhetoric listening to [ __ ]
02:06:18
politicians talking about you know the
02:06:20
state of play and stuff like that
02:06:22
actually what's the core issue how can
02:06:24
how can we change it what are we going
02:06:26
to do to change it and that's the other
02:06:27
thing with you know how many of us as as
02:06:30
professional people are actually
02:06:31
thinking about doing stuff like that
02:06:33
because I think every professional
02:06:35
athlete most of them have come from the
02:06:37
type of environment that I've been in
02:06:39
it's okay to give back. It's okay to go
02:06:42
and talk to schools and, you know, say,
02:06:45
"This is how I done it."
02:06:46
>> Um cuz someone's always, you know,
02:06:49
looking for that, like I was as a as a
02:06:51
young fellow, looking for that um that
02:06:54
picture that, you know, this this
02:06:56
picture doesn't look quite look right
02:06:57
for me.
02:06:59
>> The the vision board thing is probably
02:07:00
one of the big takeaways um I've got
02:07:02
from this chat. The fact that you were
02:07:03
doing it when no one else was, like when
02:07:05
you're a teenage boy in White and the
02:07:07
fact you're still doing it now um as a
02:07:08
man in your late 50s. I find that super
02:07:10
inspiring.
02:07:12
>> Yeah. And and and you know, I put
02:07:13
something on it last night, you know,
02:07:14
like we um we pulled a a card together,
02:07:18
me and my me and my partner, and and
02:07:20
just had a we actually pulled the same
02:07:22
card out of the same deck, you know, and
02:07:24
and and I read it and I was like, "Shit,
02:07:26
that's so true right now." And that's on
02:07:28
the vision board, you know. So, um,
02:07:30
yeah, it it's it's an it's empowering,
02:07:33
Dom, for someone like me, you know,
02:07:36
like, um, even though I I left school
02:07:38
when I was 15, you know, I've got
02:07:40
diplomas and language and and licenses
02:07:43
and and health and and all that sort of
02:07:45
stuff. Um, so I I had probably more of
02:07:48
an educational experience post school
02:07:50
than I did while I was while I was
02:07:52
there. Yeah.
02:07:53
>> But like I say to most people when
02:07:55
they're looking when I when I am you
02:07:58
know looking at roles is I've also got
02:08:00
30 years of life experience
02:08:02
>> you know and and I don't you know if I'm
02:08:05
hiring people I I like the piece of
02:08:08
paper that they bring with them
02:08:10
>> but I like the experience more you know
02:08:13
because the experience is real and and
02:08:15
people have lived that. So, um, the
02:08:17
vision board for me is it's it's it's
02:08:18
it's
02:08:21
actually alive and I've got to change a
02:08:23
few of the pictures on it. You know what
02:08:24
I mean? Like I had a picture of a one
02:08:27
asset up on it and it's actually sitting
02:08:29
in the garage. So, I've got to take that
02:08:30
down and change it type thing.
02:08:33
>> Oh, cuz you got it. Jet ski, but I got
02:08:36
it. It's a car. But, but it's a it's a
02:08:39
piece of art. You know what I mean? say,
02:08:42
"Oh, it's it's it's really funny like
02:08:45
and I and I I'll talk this to kids when
02:08:48
they parents will phone me and say, "Oh,
02:08:49
can you I talked to Ricky Herbert last
02:08:50
week, you know, at this um great man,
02:08:53
Ricky, and this function." And he's he's
02:08:56
running his academy and he's him and his
02:08:58
wife are looking after some some young
02:08:59
footballers down in Cambridge. And I
02:09:01
said, "Oh, you wouldn't believe it,
02:09:02
Ricky. I was the first guy in Newcastle
02:09:04
to be put in a family house when I went
02:09:06
over there." Cuz I was only 19. So
02:09:08
they've got a house mom and I was the
02:09:10
one of the very first times those houses
02:09:12
started. So mate, I've got some
02:09:14
experience in those. I'll come down and
02:09:15
have a chat to your kids. And um well,
02:09:18
next day on the phone, Ricky's, mate,
02:09:20
get down here, you know. So um I'll I'll
02:09:23
be taking that down there, you know. I
02:09:25
think I think one of the biggest assets
02:09:27
I can leave with people is how they
02:09:28
actually understand what that looks
02:09:29
like.
02:09:30
>> Um and the and the if anything, the
02:09:34
power that it can hold with you if you
02:09:36
if you've got that belief.
02:09:38
You know, I've had um David Ney on the
02:09:39
podcast a couple of times. He was mental
02:09:41
skills coach with um of Lydia Co and
02:09:43
Israel Adisagna. Um they both had the
02:09:45
same thing like is he superimposed the
02:09:47
belt on himself. Uh Lydia got a copy of
02:09:50
Golf Digest magazine and put her face on
02:09:53
on the cover.
02:09:54
>> Yeah.
02:09:54
>> Um Jeez, I wish I was a I wish I was a
02:09:57
golfer earning 30 million or a UFC
02:10:00
fighter like is earning 30 million.
02:10:02
Jeez, I'm trying to get me first 30
02:10:04
million,
02:10:05
>> you know. But yeah, look it it's it's
02:10:07
really powerful. Um, and
02:10:12
it's, you know, if it's if you reinforce
02:10:14
that because it it helps you, you know
02:10:17
what I mean? Like
02:10:18
>> just say for instance, you you you go
02:10:20
through a bit of trouble and and you
02:10:22
you're feeling a little bit negative and
02:10:24
down on yourself and you go and lie.
02:10:26
See, so so my vision board is at the
02:10:28
foot of my bed. So I look at it every
02:10:30
single day. Wow. you know, so I wake up
02:10:32
in the morning, I'll look at it and and
02:10:34
go, "Yeah, okay. I'm this is this is
02:10:36
where I'm headed." Type thing. What that
02:10:38
what it does for you is it puts you back
02:10:40
in the right mindset, you know, and and
02:10:44
my mindset. I said to my partner only
02:10:46
only couple of weeks ago, I said, "I'm
02:10:48
really grateful, you know." I said,
02:10:50
"Have a look at me, you know, have a
02:10:52
look have a look where we've come from
02:10:54
>> and and I'm just really grateful that
02:10:57
she's really empathic, beautiful woman."
02:10:59
Um, and she's really encouraging and and
02:11:03
I just say, you know, I just wanted to
02:11:05
say to you, I'm so grateful for the
02:11:08
tools that you allow me to to um to use
02:11:12
so that I can understand why I'm feeling
02:11:14
grateful and I'm just really grateful
02:11:16
for how you how you've been around me.
02:11:18
>> And of course, I needed that cuz, you
02:11:19
know, I'm in between roles at the
02:11:20
moment. I'm looking for something new
02:11:22
and all that sort of stuff. And instead
02:11:23
of getting down on it, I'm going, man,
02:11:25
well, have a look. you know, people
02:11:28
where you come from would be happy to be
02:11:29
sitting in where you're sitting. What do
02:11:31
you don't get shitty about it.
02:11:33
>> Um, but you know, first time I've ever
02:11:36
talked about it cuz the other thing is
02:11:38
I'm generally you see me in a shirt
02:11:40
today. I'm generally walking around in
02:11:42
shorts and a singlet. She calls me Fred
02:11:43
Dag. She get some get some clothes on.
02:11:48
We live in the same sort of area. So
02:11:49
I'll I'll run there's a very popular bar
02:11:51
called Jacuzzi and I'll run past here.
02:11:53
I'll see you sitting out the front. Um
02:11:55
you've done pretty good for a a a boy
02:11:57
from White.
02:11:58
>> Yeah. Like Yeah. Look, I think um
02:12:03
and at the end of it when I look back on
02:12:04
it um I've given it a crack, you know.
02:12:09
So I've I've given it a crack. I I I
02:12:11
think the underdog is the the most
02:12:14
lethal
02:12:16
um person you can deal with,
02:12:19
>> you know. So this
02:12:22
I you know I've only just touched on
02:12:25
stories you know like you've been in
02:12:27
positions where you just never wanted to
02:12:29
be in you know had to fight yourself out
02:12:31
of it. I say to people I said this last
02:12:33
week at a function you know like people
02:12:35
say what it was like growing up in
02:12:36
white. Well yeah it was competitive but
02:12:39
we we didn't just fight for a win. We
02:12:41
fought for oxygen
02:12:42
>> you know we fought to breathe man. It
02:12:44
was,
02:12:45
>> you know, the the the the caliber of
02:12:47
person that came out of there was, you
02:12:49
know, Charlie Mallister was an all
02:12:50
black. Um Marty All Black with Colin
02:12:53
Cooper, you know, their kids and and
02:12:55
Luke and Kayla. Um Jason Matthews was a
02:12:58
surfing champion. Um Karen Topless was a
02:13:01
nipple. Um Silver Fern, myself and Davy
02:13:04
Watson and Howie Ty all come out of the
02:13:05
same rugby league club. um the
02:13:07
Montgomery's and the Lorent rode in the
02:13:09
Olympics you you know and I'm just
02:13:11
touching on the sporting side you know
02:13:14
my wife's from W she's a doctor you know
02:13:17
Bruce Sherik ran the ran the
02:13:18
thoroughbred he's from white ran the
02:13:20
thoroughbred um New Zealand this is all
02:13:22
from a town that's no bigger than 5,000
02:13:24
people um so I guess the the the um
02:13:31
the wanting the will to fight the and
02:13:33
the will to get ahead
02:13:35
>> you know it
02:13:36
you weren't alone, you know, especially
02:13:39
in our upbringing down there in that
02:13:40
small town. So when I look back on it, I
02:13:42
say they the guy said to me, "What's one
02:13:44
thing you leave?" I said, "Well, just
02:13:46
don't forget where you come from." And
02:13:47
I'll tell I'll tell you this story. I
02:13:49
hopped in a van when I was 21 down in
02:13:52
Uranui. We actually got kicked out of
02:13:53
the kicked out of the pub because Alan
02:13:55
Sherik, who you know is a horse trainer,
02:13:57
is one of my best mates and there's 15
02:13:59
of us who were really good mates. We all
02:14:00
travel around. used to be around the
02:14:02
mountain pub call, but we were at this
02:14:03
pub. And he said, "Oh, we go and jump in
02:14:05
the van. You're in the front seat. You
02:14:07
don't ever want to get in the front seat
02:14:08
because you get told to get in the front
02:14:09
seat. You've done something wrong." And
02:14:12
um he put me in the front seat and I'm
02:14:15
thinking, "What the [ __ ] have I done
02:14:16
wrong?" And I see I couldn't see it. So
02:14:20
I I'd been acting like a pork chop, you
02:14:22
know, football star, blah blah blah.
02:14:24
Jumped in the van cruising back from
02:14:25
Uranui to Wer and he just give me who
02:14:28
the [ __ ] do you think you are? Don't
02:14:31
forget where you come from.
02:14:32
>> Mhm.
02:14:33
>> All right. And I c I cuddled up cuz I
02:14:36
thought he was going to hit me next cuz
02:14:38
that's what they they give you a bout in
02:14:39
the guts. So I've seen it happen in the
02:14:41
van a few times.
02:14:42
>> And from that moment on it it
02:14:45
straightened leveled me out. You know,
02:14:47
it basically taught me what ego was.
02:14:49
>> So it taught me a hell of a lot. You
02:14:51
know, Ekart Tully and his books and how
02:14:54
that ego thing works. Um I see a lot of
02:14:57
that. I see a lot of that and it lets a
02:14:59
lot of people down. Um, but when you
02:15:02
remember where you come from and
02:15:04
thinking about, you know, growing up in
02:15:06
that caravan, you know, six of us in a
02:15:08
15t caravan to stayed homes to going to
02:15:12
Newcastle cuz I had put linamon in a
02:15:14
headband on, played like a pork chop and
02:15:16
to end up where I am now. Um, I will
02:15:19
never forget where I come from. M
02:15:22
>> when you stand in front of the mirror
02:15:24
having a shave, you like the man looking
02:15:25
back at you
02:15:27
>> sometimes.
02:15:28
>> Sometimes. Yeah. There's there's there's
02:15:31
a lots of parts of my life that I don't
02:15:34
like, you know. Um
02:15:36
but it's all it's all growth, Dom,
02:15:39
>> you know, there's there's times, you
02:15:42
know, some of the hardest stuff is I was
02:15:43
a hard task master with my with my kids
02:15:45
around sport,
02:15:47
>> you know. Um my son told me when he was
02:15:50
14 he didn't want to play rugby anymore
02:15:51
cuz every time he played rugby people
02:15:53
were saying to him are you going to be
02:15:54
as good as your dad?
02:15:56
>> Um
02:15:56
>> yeah a lot of pressure.
02:15:58
>> Yeah. Yeah. Just broke my heart.
02:16:00
>> Broke my broke my heart. Um
02:16:02
>> but yeah these things that gez if I I
02:16:05
wouldn't do that now but I I I can't
02:16:07
take it back.
02:16:08
>> Um
02:16:08
>> you just got to learn from them. E
02:16:10
>> well it doesn't define you. That's
02:16:12
that's that's hopefully you know what I
02:16:15
keep telling myself. doesn't define that
02:16:17
defined you at that moment.
02:16:18
>> Yeah.
02:16:19
>> You know, but you're not that person
02:16:20
anymore.
02:16:22
>> So, um there's so much more to to to to
02:16:28
learn and to grow and and to be better
02:16:30
at. Um and I'm the first to admit that.
02:16:33
You know, I'm not by nowhere near
02:16:35
perfect. Um but I've got a loving
02:16:38
partner. Um I've got kids that love me.
02:16:41
I've got some good friends. Um yeah, and
02:16:44
and I've got a great sport that I love
02:16:46
>> and and and you know what else do you
02:16:49
want?
02:16:51
>> It's it's so cool. Like when when I was
02:16:53
um in my 20s, I would have thought, you
02:16:54
know, by the time I get to my 50s,
02:16:56
life's pretty much done. Well, you know,
02:16:58
everything you're going to know like um
02:17:00
and then you get there and you realize,
02:17:01
oh [ __ ] oh no, there's different
02:17:03
levels.
02:17:04
>> Yeah. There's there's always another
02:17:05
mountain to climb. And I think that's an
02:17:06
exciting thing about aging.
02:17:08
>> Yeah. Well, you know, you if you're
02:17:09
listening to all the podcasts here at
02:17:11
the moment, they're talking about
02:17:11
reversing aging now in in our lifetime.
02:17:14
Um, that is going to be scary. I'm just
02:17:17
waiting for robotics to come out. So,
02:17:19
give me give me a couple of new legs and
02:17:20
a couple of new arms, you know. Um, but
02:17:23
yeah, look, I think, you know, I think
02:17:27
retirement
02:17:28
is what is it a word, you know, like
02:17:31
>> I'd much rather be doing something, you
02:17:33
know,
02:17:33
>> need a purpose.
02:17:34
>> Yeah. and and and purpose is is
02:17:36
important, you know, probably the most
02:17:38
important thing.
02:17:39
>> If you don't have any purpose, then
02:17:41
[ __ ] it's a battle, you know, you
02:17:43
you're stuck. You you stay inside, you
02:17:45
close your curtains, you won't do
02:17:46
anything. So,
02:17:47
>> um it it's like what is that purpose?
02:17:50
Cuz cuz for me, it's a revolving door.
02:17:52
You know, one one roll comes in and the
02:17:54
other one goes out and then the next
02:17:56
you're doing something
02:17:57
>> um different that you never ever thought
02:17:58
you were going to do. Um I always just
02:18:00
think, you know, like give it your best.
02:18:02
you know, if your best is good enough,
02:18:03
you generally people love you for doing
02:18:06
what you're doing.
02:18:07
>> Um, and then change, you know,
02:18:10
>> change is constant.
02:18:11
>> So change for me in my whole career and
02:18:14
my whole life has been constant, you
02:18:16
know, from from when I was a kid to to
02:18:18
even today sitting here sitting here
02:18:21
with you and thinking for the last two
02:18:23
weeks, I got to am I really going to go
02:18:24
on that show and talk to Dom about my
02:18:26
life?
02:18:27
>> It's the first time you ever do that,
02:18:28
you know. So, um, on our walk this
02:18:31
morning, my partner said to me, "Are you
02:18:33
ready for it?" You know, and I was like,
02:18:35
"Yeah, I think I am."
02:18:36
>> Um, and that's, you know, at at my age,
02:18:40
obviously, I don't think of age. I think
02:18:41
I think one of the things that makes
02:18:43
people old is talking about your age and
02:18:45
thinking thinking that you're that age.
02:18:47
Um, and I've never ever seen that part
02:18:50
of myself, you know, like when I was
02:18:53
ringing wet getting tossed around the
02:18:55
lounge room. I would have been 30 kilos.
02:18:58
I actually thought I was like a man
02:19:01
>> in my head, you know. Um, people say,
02:19:04
"Geez, you're a big man." I'm like, "No,
02:19:06
no, I'm tiny man." Cuz it's in my head,
02:19:09
you know how in my football career they
02:19:11
say, "Oh, how old are you?" And I was
02:19:12
always say I was 27 and I was 31. You
02:19:16
know, I just I had the Oh, no. I'm 27,
02:19:18
man. You know, like, and the No, no, I'm
02:19:20
going to go and check your passport and
02:19:21
sign your contracts and then put my date
02:19:23
on it. What's your date? So, I don't
02:19:25
know birthdays. Like, I always get my
02:19:27
mum's birthday wrong. I don't follow
02:19:30
birthdays or dates like Christmases and
02:19:32
Anzacs and stuff. I don't know when they
02:19:33
fall.
02:19:34
>> Um, yeah. And I just think it's, you
02:19:36
know, while you're while you're
02:19:37
breathing, might as well um
02:19:41
might as well give it a decent crack.
02:19:42
>> 100%. How's this been for you today?
02:19:45
Yeah, good. Yeah, it's Yeah, Dom, it's
02:19:48
been good. It's Yeah,
02:19:49
>> you feel quite like vulnerable now or
02:19:51
like exposed or
02:19:52
>> I do. I do. You know, I think, you know,
02:19:54
I think vulnerability is a good thing.
02:19:56
Um,
02:19:57
>> but I do, you know, like I've done this
02:19:59
just as much for me,
02:20:01
>> you know, as as it is, you know, again,
02:20:03
like I had that, oh, why don't why do
02:20:05
people want to listen to me talking? You
02:20:07
know what I mean? Like I had that
02:20:09
negativity come into my head. And um you
02:20:12
know there's times when people say you
02:20:15
know well you you know you you're a
02:20:17
decent footballer and you coached and
02:20:19
you forget about that um
02:20:22
>> and you're just like well yeah maybe
02:20:25
there is something in here you know if
02:20:26
there's I always used to say this when I
02:20:28
talk with school you know if there's one
02:20:29
thing that someone can take away from
02:20:30
this and changes your life then I've
02:20:32
succeeded.
02:20:32
>> Yeah. you know, because that one thing
02:20:34
of standing on the hill or going to stay
02:20:36
at Franks that night, um, or putting on
02:20:39
that linament, you know what I mean? It
02:20:41
changed it changed my life drastically.
02:20:43
Um,
02:20:44
>> and you know, it's it's not about
02:20:46
changing that one life because that, you
02:20:49
know, there's a there's an old adage
02:20:50
that, you know, what does 1 plus 1
02:20:52
equal? It's not two, it's 11. You know,
02:20:55
>> and then that 11 plus 11, it's 1,11.
02:20:59
You know what I mean? Yeah. the one
02:21:00
change is actually multiplied um a
02:21:04
thousand times and if I can have an
02:21:06
effect in that change then you know at
02:21:08
least you've left something.
02:21:09
>> Yeah. Well, this has been a great chat.
02:21:11
It's it's been it's been a lot of fun
02:21:13
from my perspective and um yeah, I
02:21:15
appreciate you being so open about the
02:21:16
the crunchy stuff early on. No, I mean
02:21:20
>> people that people that um only know you
02:21:22
for your public persona, I mean their
02:21:23
opinion doesn't matter anyway, but these
02:21:25
people would have no idea like what
02:21:26
you've been through or what your journey
02:21:28
is. No, I I I don't think so. I don't
02:21:30
talk I don't talk about it. Um, you
02:21:33
know, and I've I just, you know,
02:21:35
sometimes
02:21:38
I think to myself, why don't you talk
02:21:39
about it? You know, is it are is it you
02:21:42
that doesn't want to hear it or
02:21:44
>> are you too frightened to deal with it?
02:21:47
Um,
02:21:49
>> but, you know, at the end of the day, I
02:21:51
think, you know, authenticity is really
02:21:53
important, you know, as I get older to
02:21:56
to be authentic. Um because because you
02:21:59
know you I run this this really straight
02:22:02
line you know like between black and
02:22:04
white you know so I'm when I say I'm
02:22:07
actually doing it for myself I'm really
02:22:10
am doing it for myself cuz I want people
02:22:12
to understand that hey man from a place
02:22:14
of authenticity
02:22:16
>> this is what I actually went through.
02:22:17
>> Yeah. you know, I I never had a silver
02:22:19
spoon in my mouth and I didn't, you
02:22:21
know, didn't, you know, fall on fall on
02:22:24
a a a football and and it and it all
02:22:27
came to me, you know, in a in an easy
02:22:31
fashion, it was it was a grind,
02:22:34
>> you know, it was a grind right from day
02:22:36
dot. Um, even and even till today, it's
02:22:39
still a grind, you know. So, um,
02:22:43
>> yeah,
02:22:45
I'm I'm happy to come and talk to you.
02:22:46
Is is breaking the cycle one of your
02:22:48
greatest victories?
02:22:50
>> Yeah. Yeah. Not I haven't broken it
02:22:53
100%. I think I think trauma and DNA are
02:22:55
um are misunderstood, you know. Um and
02:22:58
DNA isn't just physical, you know. DNA
02:23:01
is mental
02:23:02
>> as well, you know. It's it's seeing
02:23:04
seeing DNA travels through you
02:23:07
>> um from the outside. and and um one of
02:23:10
the biggest things that I've I've made a
02:23:12
a purpose is not to try and pass as much
02:23:14
trauma on to my kids as as I can.
02:23:17
>> Um it's harder to do
02:23:20
um and to say um but you know when I I
02:23:26
was speaking to my son about this
02:23:27
yesterday, you know, having a bit of
02:23:29
practice with my son talking about, you
02:23:30
know, what he's doing and and stuff like
02:23:32
that, you know, when he when he listens
02:23:33
to me, he he breaks down and cries. He
02:23:35
he can't believe it.
02:23:37
>> It's bloody sad, mate. you know, and
02:23:39
>> none of it was your fault.
02:23:40
>> Yeah. And he's and and I get that with
02:23:42
him, but but I also say to him, look, I
02:23:44
don't want to pass this on to you. I
02:23:45
just want you to understand, you know,
02:23:46
like this is this is what's going on. We
02:23:48
don't have to be like this. And
02:23:50
>> um yeah, it's a
02:23:54
for for me it's it it is a little bit of
02:23:56
healing.
02:23:57
>> Um it's a it's it's frightening to to be
02:24:01
putting it out there.
02:24:03
>> Um but it but again, you know, a lot of
02:24:05
people are they misunderstand me. M
02:24:07
>> you know what I mean? Um I think it's
02:24:09
about time people sort of understood the
02:24:12
the true story as well as the real story
02:24:14
of you know there's some there's some
02:24:16
stuff here that maybe you know think
02:24:19
twice about you know um when you're
02:24:22
putting your your picture up next to me
02:24:25
and the dart board and you're throwing
02:24:26
those darts at me that maybe maybe don't
02:24:28
aim between my eyes. Don't don't be so
02:24:31
quick to judge.
02:24:32
>> Hit me on the shoulder. Hit me on the
02:24:33
shoulder every then. Oh, I'm I'm proud
02:24:36
of you, mate. Are you proud of yourself?
02:24:39
>> Um Lee, look, I am. I I think um success
02:24:42
is one of the things that we don't do
02:24:44
well enough in our culture. I think um
02:24:46
you have to celebrate success and I I
02:24:49
just don't think you have to um vocalize
02:24:51
it and and show it off,
02:24:54
>> you know. I think I think success is
02:24:56
like I I'm happy sharing my success with
02:24:59
my immediate friends and family and I
02:25:02
don't need a wider circle to pat me on
02:25:03
the back.
02:25:04
>> Yeah. You know, I know and and the
02:25:06
biggest su the biggest person I have to
02:25:08
convince that um that I am celebrating
02:25:13
successes myself.
02:25:14
>> Mhm.
02:25:15
>> And if I can do that, then I'm happy.
02:25:19
>> Tony Kim, thanks so much for coming on
02:25:22
the podcast, mate.
02:25:22
>> Cheers, Dom.
02:25:23
>> It's been awesome.
02:25:24
>> Been a while. It's been longer than a
02:25:26
game of footing. It has. Cheers, mate.
