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[Music] Dame Susan devvo hello hello Don how are you good I finally got you persistence
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pays off yeah you started to become a pain in the ass so I thought I'm going
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to get this over and done with oh was it really like that pretty much so Dame Susan devoy um for anyone that doesn't
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doesn't know just a weapon of the squash world that was how you initially um got a name
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for yourself one all the world open open titles between 1985 and 1992 won the British Open eight times uh in 1992 the
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year you retired and shocked the world with that announcement you were the Australian Open Champion the British
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champion French Hong Kong Irish New Zealand Scottish Swedish and World squash Champion it's a remarkable career
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it must feel like a lifetime ago for you it does it's not not incredibly relevant
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anymore um I suppose when I have opportunities to talk about myself um I'm reminded of you know what
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a great sporting career I had but it's not exactly um I I suppose the scary thing is it does seem like yesterday and
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yet it's you know I mean 40 years this month since I won my first British Open I mean that
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just seems like yesterday yeah and um I've done so much research over the past week and
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anticipation of this and there's so many cards here with so many I didn't
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cancel I would have got you eventually um but there's so many so many chapters
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and um yeah twists and turns to the Dame Susan story um first one I I suppose this is kind of like a trivia bit of
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trivia like you're from a family of seven you were the youngest and six older brothers uh then you had four Sons
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yourself so you've just been surrounded by this male energy now now you're in
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your 60s and you're empty NRA is this the first time in your life you've had
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like a clean toilet floor um yeah pretty pretty much actually um be careful what you wish for
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sometimes um kids are like boomerangs though they keep coming back from time to time and uh you know Co meant that we
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had a few come back and stay longer than expected you know Flats leases get expired and they turn up or or you've
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been away and they come home and they've turned up without even telling you so um
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but you know I don't see our children living here long term in New Zealand so
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that's pretty sad I think you know our third son's in London our youngest is
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leaving next week to play go and play cricket uh our eldest is getting married to a girl from from Boston so I imagine
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that's probably where they'll end up and then I think our Second Son Alex's I I'm
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not entirely sure that they're all overly enamored with living in New Zealand at the moment so um yeah I'd
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probably give my right arm to have that chaos back in our house yeah would you yeah yeah pretty much cuz they've grown
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up a bit they know how to pick their own undies up and wash the tow if they have
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to they can even cook and clean and do whatever the great thing about men is they take longer than women but they do
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eventually grow up we get there we get there in the end in our own time yeah you must be immensely proud of them you
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know all well adjusted young men doing their doing their thing finding their path in the world yeah yeah I think
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that's probably the greatest achievement in my life or I should say our lives
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because they've got a great dad and that's made a huge difference but yeah
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um I mean it's a lifelong contract being a parent isn't it and uh yeah they've uh
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they're great mates together and they're good friends to us and um yeah I mean
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the only problem is with BLS or boys I should say is that you know they're not great
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communicators they just ring up for General chitchat you know they more if I not want something um they M can on golf
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so their dad gets to share that passion with them and you know they bought me a I've just recently turned 60 and I got a
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set of golf clubs for my birthday one of my friends suggested a piece of jewelry
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and they laughed so now I've got a set of golf clubs that have never been used
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um but yeah I'm I'm really proud of them I mean good men is what you're supposed
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to the Legacy you're supposed to leave so yeah what's your relationship like with
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them now you got a family like family WhatsApp group or and we've got one with
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mom in it and one with Mom one without like the whole family and then one with Dad oh that's mean yeah well
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there they talk about different things with your with your husband John or well they organized golfing weekends away and
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sort of stuff like that and you know they still play cousins yeld squash or they do quiz kns and things and I think
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I think there was some you know if there's any an inappropriate joke or humor shared and I've sort of you know
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promptly told them that what's inappropriate or not and it's generally John not them that I have to worry about
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so I probably got cut for valid reasons are you okay with that or does that hurt
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a bit no it's fine yeah it's fine I mean boys don't have much chitchat anyway so
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you know it's yeah hey so you've got a new book out called um Dame Susie D my story uh
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which you you wrote yourself yeah how many how many words 70,000 90,000 what was the contractual agreement uh the
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contract agreement was 70,000 and then it went to the lawyers and it came back and was only 60 so I had to sort of they
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cut out 10,000 sh no not quite not quite it felt like that to me you know when you get to the end you think God I've
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finally done this and then it goes away and comes and a bits redacted said you can't say that or you shouldn't say that
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or take that out uh I was a bit gutted so then I had to sort of Cobble together another couple of chapters or extend
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some so um yeah but you know it's like most things I do do in my life I you know go like a um bull in a china shop
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at the beginning and full of you know and then well you've written some books
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it's hard at the end isn't it you sort of run out of content or it becomes a bit of it was a bit like
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Groundhog Day it's hard to write about yourself you know it's like to be um you
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know it's hard to you know write about I mean it's easy to write about the bad things about
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yourself I find it very hard to write about you know sort of telling the world how marvelous you are you are you know
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so yeah but but an achievement you know from someone like me who can't sit still
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for more than a couple of seconds that discipline of actually getting it down on paper and and and as I said it is
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aptly called my story because uh I imagine that in some of those instances even my own family may disagree with a
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version of events but um I've got that line up my sleeve to say well it's my
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story not write your own book then yeah I I um one of my books is called um childhood of an idiot and it was just
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story about like growing up in you Le and palmist north in the the 1980s and I said to my siblings and my parents I
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said if if you don't like it you write your own [ __ ] book this is mine this
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is my version of events well I think there will be some instances there where people will have a different I mean I
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John's the only one that's sort of read it and he was oh I don't know that
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happened or you know he made a few changes said I did that no you didn't I did that and so he changed and said John
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and I it's like I'm not compromising because it's you know makes you feel
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better um but yeah it was like or I'd ask him if he remembers that happening
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he jogged my memory a bit but um yeah uh there's a little probably poetic license
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in there I mean it's all true but it may your truth yeah exactly my truth and
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where did the where did the name Dame susd come from well the Publishers came up with that actually it was nothing to
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do with me no one calls me that no one calls me Dame anything actually um but I think that
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um who's the really cool comedian uh uh that was on the F on Celebrity Treasure Island that I got kicked off on
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the first show oh the very tall nice looking blonde guy Guy Williams Oh Guy Williams no no not Guy Williams that's
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he's he's not that guy I don't know I don't know could you you must we'll get
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to twit later but you must have tuned up and thought who are these people yeah yeah yeah know I did um but he was so so
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nice and I hadn't realized that before I'd got there cuz I'd been kept aside
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for a while that he'd nicknamed me Dame Susie D and it sort of stuck and then my
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my son got onto my Instagram page which is you know I'm not a social media whatever and he changed it uh to Dame
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suie D without me even sort of knowing and so that's sort of just stuck really
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it's cool I like it do you like it um no got to call it something iose I feel like you were just like un
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my story is like my story that's pretty you know well so I suppose they had some
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sort of I mean I I would figure that 90% of the people that read it hopefully of
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the hundred that do um won't have watched celebrity Treasure Island so they won't understand that
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either well that's just just by um I suppose age and by circumstance here there'll be a lot of people that read it
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that didn't watch Treasure Island a lot of people that don't even um remember
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your squash career from the 1980s but I think it's really cool and the very small part of the book is kind of about
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the squash and it's about kind of what's happened since which I think is really
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cool because um this is your second book your first book called um out on top was
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released in 1993 and that book ends with um this is not the final chapter in the Susan Devo
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story so back then 31 years ago so you you were you were a kid you were 30 um what did you think the future held what
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were your goals what were your dreams raise relations commissioner no that's
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the interesting thing because I think I quote that in my book too that well not so much about the next chapter but
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there's something relevant there about the public trust I would never have envisaged the way my life would have
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planned out didn't know how my life was going to plan pan out but um yeah I have been the mother of
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reinvention um and I would never have really even anticipated how interesting and
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varied it has been hopefully it still will continue for another few years but yeah I think that was a a good lead into
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the next story so you had no goals or aspirations you just going to sort of wait to see what doors opened for you
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rather than push Doors Down well I mean John and I were both very keen on having
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a large family we actually even talked about having six children that's before
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I had four sons of course um and yeah I I I think Sports people have a different uh life experience than others
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because you've achieved so much before you're the age of 30 or whenever you
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choose to retire you know so for me it was a sense of relief finally retiring because that's all I'd done or all I
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thought I'd done for my entire life you know so I'd spent nearly to me 30 years
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of being this young kid who was absolutely desperate to be the best best squash player in the world then the
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pressures of the time that I was there you know had a enormous impact on me more than people will probably
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understand and so I was just ready to do I I just wanted to be normal I didn't
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know what normal was but I wanted to have a family and I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom and I mean I knew that
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things would Adventure right I was already heavily involved with the how big trust and stuff but um yeah I wasn't
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uh I wasn't sure how it would all pan out it's funny cuz even if you're a like
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a a a super goal planner like a a 5year 10 year goal planning person that there's no way back then that you could
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have said one day I'm going to be on a reality show like reality TV just wasn't
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a thing you know there's um just unexpected things that come your way and um yeah I think that's part of the like
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excitement of life really yeah I think that's where I've been luckiest you know
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one you know I can spend a few weeks think thinking I'm washed up and irrelevant and then just out out of
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nowhere an opportunity um presents itself and I haven't had to go looking for too many and if I do have to look
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for something there's always plenty to do you know there's always something a
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project to get involved in somewhere I mean it's lovely oh lovely it's cool at
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the moment at John I both in the stage of Our Lives that we can pick and choose what we want to do and um you know
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whether it's be here or travel or live our lives VI curiously through our children and or whatever I mean the next
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step for me is I'm just desperate to be a grandmother no one else is getting
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reading the room on that matter but um and it better be a granddaughter or I'll
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be sending it back oh I'd say odds are very where does the where does the male
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Gene come from in the devoy where where is that it's it's bonkas really isn't it
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I know I know your parents like literally kept hammering basically until they got a daughter right and you were
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number seven well no I don't think they cared really about that I mean I as I
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said in the book my mother was relieved she didn't have 14 children they were
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Catholics and you know women in those days never had much control over their own bodies unfortunately and um my
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mother was you know relieved that she didn't have 17 children that wasn't the
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desperation for a daughter um and my brothers all went on to have daughters first and I got stuck with the boys
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so okay so let's um talk about your squash and focus on that for a bit um so
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you you're from a like a squash playing family like your parents played squash
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so from a young age you're at the Squash Courts um just while your parents were
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drinking and socializing just whacking a ball around and I saw parallels with that and my I'm from a tennis family so
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we spent weekends at the tennis club um your mom and dad would be drinking upstairs I'd be done whacking balls
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against a wall but if I compared myself to you I should be like Roger feder right now but I was terrible were you
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naturally good like you naturally showed some promise or no um I think I was a natural hitter of the ball I don't think
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I've never been probably no one would describe me as being the most flamboyant
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or talented squash player in the world but um yeah I just loved it you know there's
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a part of me that says or thinks that perhaps if my parents had put a tennis racket or a golf club my personality
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would have made me determined to be good at those too you know that's it's
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perhaps a little regret you know um why why would that be a regret the money the
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Mone I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you if I was a golfer or a tennis
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player would I Christ and I wouldn't be writing a bloody book about my life is
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you know Reinventing myself would I I'd be um I'd be living on my super yacht in
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the Mediterranean right because squash is like a is a a minority sport compared to say tenis and golf okay yeah very
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minority you know I mean it's not like um I I'm not complaining but it's not
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like you know um I made enough to retire on or whatever but um yeah it just be interesting you know I'm a I'm a goodand
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eye I mean I see them my sons you know they're all good hand eye golfers cricketers whatever ever so I think oh
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you know with the determination I had in the 10,000 hours or 100,000 hours that I
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put in you know it would been interesting to see if I had would have been good at something else yeah yeah
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are you quite well versed on that um that 10,000 the from Malcolm Gladwell yeah so you would have you you probably
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would have clocked up your 10,000 hours just hitting a ball maybe on a lot of it
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on your own while your parents were did that when I was 13 yeah I'd already done
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my 10,000 hours so by the time you started playing against other other people in competition and stuff you were
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pretty good yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean I was always well above my age group and competitions when I was young and um you
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know I was so exposed to it as a youngster with my brothers playing that I went around and played lots and lots
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and lots of tournaments so um yeah I mean I I I I believe that you need to put in those hours to be proficient at
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something there's just a whole lot more other things that make you a champion
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yeah and and when did you when did you decide to um like turn professional or what was the what was the process with
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that cuz I'm just thinking um you know this was New Zealand in the ' 80s this
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is like pre- internet you know it's just like a completely different time like where did
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where did that um I don't know like you where where did that even come from that that that
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desire or that thinking that this is a potential path for you well I think back in the 80s and '90s or yeah um or even
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the 70s I suppose uh squash was a boom sport you know it was a new sport in relatively new in New Zealand and it was
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you know we had um international players on the circuit and the best players in the
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world were aside from the pakistanis and the men were you know Australians and so
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my role models lived across the ditch you know it's it's all very different
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now um I had a trip when I was sort of 15 to Australia um you know so there was and when I was 17 I went to the world
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Champs in Canada so it was like um yeah I mean I can do this the funny thing about squash it's always been
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professional it's never been well when I say when I started playing it was professional the amateur era was very
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small and it became professional very um so you know there wasn't that sort of decision for other sports have to
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turn amateur professional whatever professional is just a word doesn't mean you make [ __ ] loads of money but what
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why didn't your no why didn't your parents trying to talk you out of it though like Susan you're being
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ridiculous go to university go to polch get a job you know what I mean it just seems it seems like a crazy crazy dream
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well I look at it now and think I was 17 not quite 18 when I went to the UK when
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I flew from ockland to heo to have a crack on the circuit you know and I think I look at my own
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children and think imagine if they' come and said that to us we would have you
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know sat them down and and when I left school in the middle of the S form what it was I didn't tell my parents I left
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school I was too scared to and uh didn't yeah what you mean you just like checked
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out of school without I did I just left one day in the middle of the year I was taught by nuns and one of them said to
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me would you rather be at school or play play squash and I thought what a stupid
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question so I went home my parents worked fulltime so every morning I'd get dressed in my school uniform I'd
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actually hide under the house until they'd gone to work and then finally after two or three weeks I plucked up
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courage and told them and I said that at the end of the year I wanted to go to Europe
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and my both my parents said well that's okay but you need to find yourself a job
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and find your way to do it and I was like okay then I can do that I think I look back now and think I think my
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parents after seven children my my parents were bitterly disappointed I wasn't going to University but I think
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they thought I would go have a crack at this it wouldn't work out and I'd come
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back with my toil between my legs and you know we'd start again was sort of you know I had University entrance they
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called in those days and I wasn't you know I wasn't thick or anything um and I
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think they thought oh let her go and get out out of system and she'll come back
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and that'll be it but um yeah so um I do look back and think of my parents but my
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mother was formidable you know she was like I think she wanted me to be more a world champion more than I did what what
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are you what I'm just trying to think so I've got one of my one of my best mates
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has um his daughter recently moved to the UK and I think um she's 21 22 and um
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her her mom went over with her to help her get established with a flat and stuff and they're like we don't not sure
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how she's going to cope it's the other side of the world but it's like this
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FaceTime now like it's very very yeah back when you went there was um snail mail really wasn't there and very very
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expensive you know phone calls probably 10 bucks a minute like you to to be from
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New Zealand to London you may as well be on the [ __ ] Moon yeah those funny little eogs you know those onepage
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things that you'd stick together and send it off and the News would be two weeks old by the time you got a letter
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none of my brothers were very good at writing and neither were my parents actually or you'd have to book in a
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reverse charge phone call you know and sometimes they'd even say no because can't afford it no or if you you
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had to book an a call if you wanted to speak to your parents or someone on Christmas day you know
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um so it was incredibly incredibly different um than it is I think there's some bonuses to that in some ways too
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though but um yeah I mean it's sort of I'm I've I've always been incredibly
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resilient and I probably didn't appreciate it at the time but now I realize at my age doing what I did which
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was living couch surfing from tournament to tournament and bludging beds and begging people to hit with me and um so
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yeah I mean it's just uh that's the way it happened what did it take to be so
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good there's a word you use in this um this book you um describe your training
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as maniacal yeah that's probably it that's probably it yeah I mean the thing about
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being so good is I loved training as much as I loved competing you know um I look at the generation of my sons they
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love competing not all of them love training you know like as I did but I I got as much pleasure out of the training
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as I did um the competing so you know it was never enough for me and in those days we had no it was no rhyme nor
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reason to what we did there was no Sports Science there was no um you know I mean in these days you
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could write a program for a squash player and cover every every sort of skill and attribute that you need
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physically technically and whatever in those days it was sort of like a bit hit and miss and whatever and we didn't have
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the testing and all those sorts things so I rather than think I done enough I wasn't sure I'd just do some more and
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probably I overtrained in many regards um but I needed that for my own confidence because for me every time I
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stepped on that Court um I knew technically that I was okay but physically because it's so demanding I
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needed to know that um I you know I'd taken there was no stone unturned and that's why I knew that I wouldn't I
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barring illness or injury I was going to win were you that that motivated to work
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so hard because you loved when or just cuz you hated losing was it a fear of losing oh I had a terrible fear of
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losing that I probably didn't openly admit all that um easily you hardly had
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to no and I and that just became worse over time the more I won the more I was scared of losing and it wasn't um you
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know I mean i' as I said in the book I'd be a sports psychologist nightmare you
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know um not that we had those in those days either um in fact we used to laugh and we said if you have to go to one of
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those then you really you really are nuts you know um but yeah I um I just I just never thought I was fit
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enough or strong enough or you know well no I did but I thought I could always do
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more I was always looking there's no such thing as a perfect performance but
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I always knew that there's when I finished winning I'd come off and I wouldn't say that was amazing or I
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played really well I'd say oh god I've got to work on that or I've got to do
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this and I've got to do that and so yeah it was just sort of this in the end it
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became like a treadmill really and that's basically the reason I retired I mean I was only 28 when I actually
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retired so I look back now and think [ __ ] that was a bad move yeah is that quite young to retire as a squash player
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yeah yeah yeah there people um I mean Joel King still playing now she's 35 and
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uh yeah but I I just couldn't do anymore I just didn't have the uh cut yeah yeah
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me must be other things to life I thought and I like I can't imagine the um like the pressure to perform there
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was there was a there was a clip on the news a couple of weeks ago Tiger Woods making his return to golf and um it was
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a news story because he shanked a shot so you had a bad shot and I I suppose the um the only sort of closest thing we
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could come to a direct comparison to you right now is probably Lisa Carrington going to the Olympics this year and um
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not winning a gold medal like that would be bigger news than who winning a gold medal and um that's a that's a massive
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amount of preure to carry on your shoulders well I think that's exactly what happens is when you're at the top
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for such a long time people expect you to stay there and then um as fickle as people are they I suppose it's only news
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of something happens you know if disaster struck but I also think this flip side of that as you
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become in hindsight now I look back and say you become sort of preoccupied and obsessed with that because you
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know let's hope that Lisa Carrington doesn't make up at the Olympics I you
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know she's probably one of our greatest sports person um and I think um if she
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did it would be news for a day but if it's her she probably thinks it's news
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for a year you know she I don't know how she deals with it but that's what I
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would be thinking I my buildup to the British or the worlds would be oh geez what if I lose what if I lose you know
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that was my it became and that's no way to play sport yeah I've had um yeah Dame
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Lisa on you're actually my second Dame on the podcast I've had Dame Lisa on and
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uh yeah she she has like a strict um no social media no internet role um when she's in in um like training camps for
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the Olympics cuz she said she just doesn't need the added pressure about you know will Lisa WI six gold medal
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sort of thing um but I think that's the benefit of in my era we didn't have the
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social media but we still had the pressure from you know the media or whatever but it's something that is
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self- professing you know it's you know it's when I was climing the British Open
00:25:12
I the whole New Zealand weren't thinking about Susan Devo playing in the British
00:25:16
Open but Susan Devo thought the whole of New Zealand were thinking about her playing in the British Open but um yeah
00:25:22
I mean I I Dame Lisa and I probably had different completely different personalities but you know the one thing
00:25:29
that I read about her that resonated was that um you know she's never missed a
00:25:34
training session and that's why she's so good yeah yeah yeah do you can you see
00:25:39
sort of parallels between you and her well in a training sense you know I mean I don't know who well enough to know the
00:25:44
other parallels apart from We're bloody great Achievers um but yeah so I think
00:25:50
that that's you know and for me my sporting career nothing ever nothing ever took place over training you know
00:25:57
yeah yes speaking of that what um what are some of the notable sacrifices you had to make to achieve your goals is
00:26:03
there anything that that stands out well I think you just have a different life you know you don't um you don't party
00:26:11
you know you don't stay up late you don't miss a day's trading you don't go
00:26:16
away on holidays you know those are the sort of things you don't go sightseeing
00:26:20
you know it's just one tournament from another you don't I never saw those as
00:26:24
sacrifices and I still don't actually I think it's um you know amazing I won't say the word privilege but um an
00:26:31
opportunity which you probably don't appreciate till you've hung up your
00:26:34
record but yeah no um yeah you just sacrifice a a normal life I suppose you you know it's very regimented and you
00:26:42
know very structured and um but that's what it takes I suppose well you just
00:26:47
going back so um we talked about Lisa Carrington before and her switching her phone off during the you know and it was
00:26:53
a different time for you in terms of the media but I I read or heard somewhere that you you you just stopped reading
00:26:58
reading anything or having anything to the media after the age of like 23 what was that what was the catalyst is there
00:27:03
a bad story or yeah know I had a run in with the British press I can't even remember what it's about but they wrote
00:27:08
something that was entirely you know um uh entirely untrue I well it was and I thought at my young age of I think it
00:27:17
was 21 or 22 or something that I could you know take on the British tblo the fourth estate and you know and it went
00:27:23
horribly wrong wasn't even that major you know probably fourth page of the Daily Mail something um but I decided
00:27:30
from then on that I couldn't change what they were going to write or say and that
00:27:34
it affected me so badly that I was never going to be so I've never read anything
00:27:39
good bad or different before since or after and it's exactly the same with social media and you know I um I did
00:27:47
that during when I was the race relations commissioner I've done that through C celebrity Treasure Island I
00:27:52
don't uh it's not that I don't go on social media but I don't read anything
00:27:56
that's to do with me why would you why would you put yourself through that may
00:28:00
may miss mean you miss out some nice stuff too but um you know the people that mean the most to me will tell me
00:28:05
the nice stuff I don't need randoms but um yeah so it's uh you know it's been a
00:28:10
really something that's helped me cope with you know any criticism or yeah there there is that saying that everyone
00:28:17
knows that you should you know just control the controllables but it's um it
00:28:20
still takes a lot of strength not to Google yourself especially if you're you
00:28:24
know some celebrity Treasure Island I mean that's kind of a fun flippant thing
00:28:27
but like the Rel race relations job and we'll get to that later um it'd be hard
00:28:32
it'd be hard not to see what's being said about you yeah but if you don't do
00:28:36
it it becomes a discipline you know and then you don't have to I mean why would
00:28:41
you beat yourself up and go to bed because ab and C said that you're this this and this cuz human nature is that
00:28:50
you only look at the negatives don't you you don't go to bed and say oh God AB
00:28:55
andc you're marvelous you go bed and said d and F said you're a prick you
00:29:00
know and that's um and I can't change what they're going to say about me and I
00:29:04
can't you know and and the thing is was it may sound like you're just you know
00:29:09
your dad's um medical event happened within the space of 24 hours how like what are your Recollections of that you
00:29:15
know I'm going to go back and I'm going to prove everyone wrong I'm still a
00:29:19
champ and I'm going to go back and I'm going to win the worlds and the British
00:29:22
Open again and and then I caught up with I started training with a guy called Vince pal who came out to New Zealand he
00:29:29
was a former paratrooper who trained at my club in Marlo where I was based in the UK and he came out to New Zealand by
00:29:36
chance and he was one of the very first personal trainers at Le Mills with the one-on-one training that had sort of
00:29:42
started up and um I used to do the Wiz with Vince sessions at the Oasis Club in Marlo and that's well that's what they
00:29:49
were like and um he didn't know anything about squash and so we trained together
00:29:54
and um yeah and I say in the book that he introduced me to rest and you know it wasn't more as better it was more
00:30:02
quality and um and that was the most specific I've ever been in any years that I've trained and so um and it it
00:30:11
sort of brought some Joy back into doing it and I and so the 92 was the best year
00:30:15
I I ever had and that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't had the worst year
00:30:19
in ' 91 yeah yeah you're back to that 91 thing so you didn't win the British Open
00:30:23
and this was a massive surprise to everyone um and in the book you talk about the shame and andar Bassment and
00:30:28
your support crew knew to stay clear of you for a few days what yeah what were you like after after not playing to your
00:30:35
potential oh I'm you a nightmare to be around yeah I'm S I only lost twice in
00:30:39
major events I lost in the British Open in 91 and I lost in the worlds in ' 87
00:30:43
and both time I'm not pleasant to be around not something I'm entirely proud
00:30:47
of now like sulky or moody or irritable or what would be the worst well you know
00:30:52
you could look at me the wrong way and I'd snap yeah best to be just left alone
00:30:57
John just used to of and go somewhere and play golf with his mates um yeah I I yeah I suppose it's just pathetic really
00:31:04
when I think about it now but um yeah I just um the the the reason I used to get so
00:31:11
upset was I mean in ' 87 I lost the worlds and I didn't at the time because
00:31:15
I'm whil to say I don't like losing I'm good sport I could attribute to that to
00:31:21
walking the length of New Zealand because I didn't have all of my first twitch muscles were gone but in 91 it's
00:31:29
like I did all that preparation i' done all the things I've done before I didn't
00:31:34
lose in the final I lost in the quarter FAL you know so it was just a double whammy for me but um yeah I mean it's
00:31:41
just in hindsight now I look back and I cringe to think what I was like I mean I
00:31:45
wasn't rude and abusive that's why people just used to stare clear because
00:31:48
I just needed to sulk for a few days then I'd come right but that's just that
00:31:52
champion you know there's a line in the book 30 years on I'm mortified to look
00:31:56
back and realize my obsession with winning but I've been um I apologize to frequent podcasters because I've been
00:32:01
going on a bit about this recently but I've been reading a book by a guy called
00:32:05
Tim Grover who was like the physical trainer of um some of the greatest NBA players ever like Kobe Bryant and
00:32:11
Michael Jordan and they all had the same sort of thing as you like they were just
00:32:15
like had a one track mind just that single Focus about training harder than anyone else like Kobe Bryant would do
00:32:21
three training sessions a day like it'd get up earlier than anyone else um it's
00:32:25
the same sort of thing so yeah I mean it served you well you can't be too embarrassed about that right oh no no no
00:32:31
it's no of course but you know I um yeah it is the reason I was so good I'm you
00:32:37
know I'm unashamedly proud of the fact that I was like that but I'm just yeah
00:32:42
it's I don't know it's just a weird um but it's intrinsic in you you're born
00:32:49
like that you can't teach anyone that you know you can't it's just who you are
00:32:54
and that's what Champions are about you know it's like um and I see that come to the for and other
00:33:00
things that I do and it's like um you know even on Celebrity Treasure Island I
00:33:06
was you know the thing about getting old that I hate is I think I'm not going to
00:33:09
be good at anything anymore when I said I want to be a world champion I just not
00:33:13
going to even be proficient I can't do a box jump anymore you know I can't run
00:33:18
under 5Ks anymore I can't do this anymore I keep trying and trying and trying to do it and I'm not just I'm not
00:33:25
aging gracefully I'm you know becoming a grumpy old bag but that you know and and
00:33:30
the other reason I didn't really go into coaching or training is cuz I know I'd
00:33:33
be too hard on people no seriously in the world's soft a now you can't you know you got to ask
00:33:41
people how they feel and you know you it's it's a different time now way um I
00:33:46
I had a guy on the podcast last week who um did he's currently the assistant
00:33:50
coach of the Crusaders and he spent a bit of time playing sevens under Gordon titens and it's like a different
00:33:55
coaching style to what is sort of accept now like um by today's standards you
00:34:00
might call Gordon titens a bully for the way he trained people but it's just he
00:34:03
wanted the best people in those positions and the fittest people in those positions yeah hey one thing you
00:34:09
mentioned um you touched upon before is the walking the length of the country so
00:34:12
this was um and this this is a whole lot of crazy so this is in 1988 so you walk
00:34:19
the length of the country to raise money for um muscular distopy so you were 24 years old at the time this was the
00:34:25
middle of your middle of your career now nowadays you'd never get this over the
00:34:29
line right like coaches trainers um high performance sport or whatever can you imagine Lisa Carrington taking you know
00:34:36
half a year off to like what yeah how what what was the story with that how did you get that over the line was it
00:34:41
just your decision and no one else had a say in it well no one else had a say really in anything I did because I
00:34:46
wasn't paid by anyone to do anything so I didn't have any obligations to anyone
00:34:49
like sport New Zealand or all that sort of thing it was just myself and I think you know as I said I'd been on the
00:34:54
circuit since I was 17 so that's seven years and um uh there were sort of a whole lot of
00:35:02
things that sort of combined to me the the Catalyst was really a lot of people at the club where I was based in the UK
00:35:07
were part of Ian botham's walk so I saw what they were doing and I didn't know
00:35:11
Ian Botham but you know pretty amazing thing to do and then I got connected with the MD Association
00:35:18
through Susie simok who was involved in squash and I think it was perfect for me
00:35:25
personally very selfishly actually the decision was to do something completely different completely out of the box you
00:35:32
know that was um because by the time I was about 24 I was starting to talk about when am
00:35:40
I going to retire you know how long have I got you know that sort of thing um which is a bit odd but um because I'd
00:35:48
done everything yeah you know what I mean it's not like you know I didn't want to win 16
00:35:54
British opens I didn't want to I'd already run one four and uh worlds it wasn't like I had a goal of
00:36:00
how many I wanted to win um and so it was doing something completely different and I think the thing is that I felt
00:36:08
like not entirely true but really since the time I was about 12 years of age I've done nothing
00:36:14
else and it was just um and it was it was you know defined a lot of the future of my life really and it was it was
00:36:23
wildly successful like how much money was raised for muscular half ra half a million dollars which is huge there's no
00:36:28
fpos machines it was checks and 20 C coins and dollar notes and all collected in buckets or fundraisers from different
00:36:35
organizations and it was yeah it was a formidable thing to do actually I um can't imagine doing now there's a bit
00:36:41
more too much traffic on the road well you think now like um it's so much easier to you know fund raise now
00:36:49
with you know sites like give a little bit to get half a million for anything now and half a million back then could
00:36:54
probably buy you 10 houses in Oakland you know so substantial amount of money so what were the what were the days like
00:37:00
how much like how many how many KS were you walking per day well um we we averaged between 30 and 50 you
00:37:10
know our our biggest day was 70 K walking up to the cape um the first week was the hardest but then after that we
00:37:19
just became seasoned and when I say we cuz our Beast Man guy c spider walk the entire way with me um but yeah it was
00:37:28
just um and and we did every single step you know we'd start at 5:30 in the morning
00:37:34
and sometimes we'd arrive at the destination and we think God you know perhaps we could just drive on an extra
00:37:39
few Cas no one's going to notice but every single day without fail there was
00:37:42
always someone there to start walking with us and um yeah I mean we walked on the main road you know I don't I mean
00:37:49
you probably wouldn't be allowed to do that these days you know it was the end
00:37:52
of the school tomb we had Bunch loads of school kids we had randoms wandering all
00:37:56
over the road I mean you wouldn't be able to do it for a whole lot of health
00:37:59
and safety and all sorts of reasons but um yeah and we'd get into the local Town
00:38:03
we'd stop at the pub at the end of the day then we'd have a function to go to
00:38:08
the school might have raised money or the rotary club or I don't know it was
00:38:12
um it was pretty phenomenal experience and half a million dollars that we'd sit
00:38:16
and count at night you know was just just it was a inspired when you think about it and and I think what makes it
00:38:23
even more like another layer of impressiveness is um yeah you were like the the top squash player in the world
00:38:30
at the time were you were you like having an hour training every now and then at squash courts or was it a
00:38:35
complete time off squ complete time off that seems Madness in hindsight doesn't
00:38:39
it yeah yeah well it does cuz it was right before um you know the season and squash jary starts in January and we
00:38:45
finished on the first week of December um so yeah I was a bit undercooked when I went back in terms of
00:38:52
I mean you can never lose your um your Technique but as I said at the speed and i' lost a lot of muscle strength and
00:38:58
stuff like that but um you know could walk forever could have walked around the world I just couldn't run very fast
00:39:04
um but I knew that when I took that on and I C certainly at the time didn't use
00:39:07
that as any excuse um and yeah I'm I'm I'm never regretted doing that to this day I actually
00:39:16
contemplated doing it again sort of 25 years later contemplated it never got round to actually doing it well why
00:39:23
don't you you could though well I couldn't now I told you I can't even run
00:39:26
under I'm going to do this the rot Marathon I'm 60 and it's the 60th
00:39:31
marathon and I went tried to run 12ks the other day I I read this in your book so you've done the rotor and Marathon
00:39:36
twice um yeah you're like 10 years older than me but I'm from like a rugby and
00:39:39
Tennis family so I remember very well like the Fletch Marathon growing up at the rot and Marathon now it's a a big
00:39:44
big deal you both your marathons have been sub four like it's um you're no
00:39:48
slouch no but that was um I I did my last one when I was 40 and I'm now 60 right so I've only
00:39:56
just yeah with six weeks to go it's not the same if you walk it you have to have
00:40:02
to walk and I'd have to walk I'd have to run walk run walk run walk run walk and
00:40:06
isn't that ridiculous a 60-year-old woman who run walks the marathon should be proud of that I'm like oh how
00:40:13
embarrassing I couldn't even run the whole way but I'll probably still do it
00:40:17
you're so old school it's my mom's 71 and we're going to Paris next week to do
00:40:21
the marathon and Mom's um mom's uh mom's just um frustrated about getting older and slower um so she's
00:40:30
she's like she's like when when there comes a time that I can't do it under 5
00:40:33
hours I'm not doing it anymore and I'm like [ __ ] you're a 71y old woman he
00:40:37
still doing it like be proud of that it's is she going to do the marathon under 5 hours that's phenomenal yeah
00:40:42
it's incredible right that is yeah my son's running the London in a few weeks
00:40:47
time not my son that's Runner another son so um yeah I mean it's just uh
00:40:53
perhaps I'll ask Julian to run the marathon with me and oh had go right Julian by the way he's he could run
00:40:58
twice he could probably run run it twice in the distance I took to do one yeah yeah Julian um Susan's Son by the way he
00:41:05
was like a sub four minute mile Runner which is just incredible yeah yeah John Walker one of your um peers I guess um
00:41:13
yeah that was his sort a big thing he was the first man in the world to break 100 sub 400 miles and anyone that does
00:41:18
it now it's still like a remarkable Club to be in yeah I don't think people
00:41:22
appreciate how good that is and I you know I'm not even sure if he does but you know his got has been able to run to
00:41:28
be able to run a sub for in at Mar for the last 10 years I think nichas has done 20 years in a row um and fewer
00:41:36
people have run under sub for Miles than Klein Mount Everest yeah it's a crazy
00:41:40
Club to be I know I know yeah hey so let's move on to the nigh Hood so may 1998 um you get a letter you what's the
00:41:48
process with with getting a nigh Hood so a letter arrives in the Post Yeah you sort of get like a party invitation slip
00:41:55
thing with a you know from government house and it says your nomination for a royal honor has been accepted um and do
00:42:05
you wish to accept and then there's like an RSVP slip that says yes or no so make
00:42:11
sure you took the right box some people do say no they don't want one so yeah
00:42:15
I'd come home from the hospital I'd had just had my our fourth son um my
00:42:19
mother-in-law was staying I remember walking in she said to me I'll never mind Susan you're still young enough to
00:42:24
try again as if there was some great failure in having four boys and then John little while later said
00:42:30
you might want to check the mail that's when we did have snail mail and I went
00:42:33
through and I saw that and I thought he'd opened it of course but um I thought wowma was completely unexpected
00:42:39
completely out of the blue you know and um yeah I was yeah I mean you know I've
00:42:47
set myself lots of goals in my life but it's never been one of those you know I
00:42:52
want to be a world champion and by the way i' i' like to be a sir or Dame or
00:42:56
whatever you call it you know um so yeah it was um you know one of those things you feel
00:43:02
a little I mean I've always you know a lot of people make comments about Awards why
00:43:07
should you get an award for being good at sport or if you've been a politician
00:43:11
or whatever um and I I don't know who nominated me but I I'd like to think
00:43:16
that the person that did that wasn't didn't do it all those years after I'd
00:43:19
retired wasn't was part of the other stuff that I did in my life oh yeah the
00:43:23
squash thing was just a thread I mean it was the Walk of yeah the walk that ra half a million we about and a bunch of
00:43:28
other stuff yeah and I think that that was yeah and my mom was still alive then so for her that was you know the icing
00:43:35
on the cake for her she was chuffed what does that mean exactly how does your life change when you become it doesn't
00:43:40
change at all really no you more respect from people or no no no in fact I think
00:43:47
there was when I it was 98 or something I don't know uh I remember our youngest
00:43:52
was only a little fellow um I don't think people called me Dame Susan and until 20 years later you know it was
00:44:00
like it never and now people say what do we call you and I say well call me what you like
00:44:05
I don't care but if you're in a room with a group of people and there's a sir
00:44:08
there they automatically call the the gentleman sir it's not like that I'm
00:44:12
don't think they go up to them and ask them what they'd like to be called so it
00:44:15
is sort of the seems like the lower rank you know John doesn't have a title um our friends used to call him lady
00:44:23
John but he didn't necessarily see the funny side of that you know um go yeah how's how's he been like it
00:44:30
seems like you've got a incredible relationship you two but uh um it kind of been easy at times like living in
00:44:35
your Shadow it's a very big Shadow you cast yeah but he's never been like that
00:44:40
you know he's not that sort of person he doesn't have an ego so he's
00:44:45
not uh yeah he's never been like that he's not a big not a big personality person
00:44:51
so he's um but he certainly ruls the roast I mean he wears the pants and the
00:44:56
f family don't worry about that um I find that hard to believe no it's true
00:45:01
don't worry he is the boss come hell high water I can promise you um he's
00:45:06
just very quiet about it whereas I'm the loud and rockus one but um yeah look I
00:45:10
met John when I was 18 at the New Zealand Champs in Timaru uh so 40 something years later you know
00:45:18
we're still trucking along um yeah we're just we're just we're opposites and I
00:45:24
think we're probably finally quite challenging now with retirement is to I mean I'm never home you know I've
00:45:34
been up here looking after my brother who's at a bilateral knee replacement and my sister-in-law who fell down and
00:45:38
broke at both her ankles so I'm able to come and be the nurse carer for and help
00:45:42
them out because life's been pretty terrible for them uh I have a little project down that's written about the
00:45:48
book and Club case I go off to Wellington I can't sit still stay in one place for very long um he retired on the
00:45:54
8th of January this year and then started working on the 14th only 3 days a week so we're in that transition phase
00:46:00
of Our Lives where we both love certain things together and we have our own interests I think we probably need to
00:46:08
find something else that we're you know like to do together um and it's it's a
00:46:15
tough tough stage in your life are we're grateful that we can do it one we don't
00:46:20
know how long we're going to live for two we don't know if we're going to have
00:46:23
you know we're going to use up all our money in that time John's a great
00:46:26
believer and spending our children's inheritance they've had their lot you
00:46:29
know we've helped them along the way I'm sort of like what if something happens
00:46:32
and can't we help them out a little bit more or you know so um yeah we're at a
00:46:39
really different stage of Our Lives yeah financially you you okay I know there wasn't a great deal of money in squash
00:46:45
like it was a th bucks here thousand bucks there um but the the race relation sh and we'll get we'll get to that did
00:46:52
that pay all right yeah that pay all right I mean I did very well financially as a squash player I was a big fishing a
00:46:57
small pond here so whilst the prize money wasn't huge um I had some very very very good endorsements and John was
00:47:04
my manager and he stitched up some very very good deals so whilst I might have had huge retainers he made it on a big
00:47:10
bonus if I won and because I also got it winning we did okay and we were you know
00:47:15
we squirreled it away for a rainy day and made sure that we were okay and John's had you know work bloody hard so
00:47:22
yeah yeah we're fine but um it's not like you're living in a a um a Caravan
00:47:27
and panga no pepakura pepakura yeah don't forget to bring that up that's a
00:47:32
reference to something the book yeah cuz I mean there has been some bad Lu along
00:47:35
the way like um yeah this came up there was some you got screwed over by a business partner basically um and then
00:47:41
you made some quote to the some journalists like after you you had to sell your house and move to a rental and
00:47:46
you said it's not like we're living in a camping ground and I said it's not like
00:47:50
we're living in a caravan you know CU I think they wanted to suggest that we
00:47:55
couldn't put food in our tables right I don't know how it came out but the the
00:47:59
headline ended up Dame Susan quipped lightly or something that don't worry we're not living in a Mot in a caravan
00:48:05
in the papara motor Camp it was like God blind me every second person wrote to me
00:48:11
or complained or whatever the May got on the bandwagon and got on the paper and so I wrote a letter to the edit I've
00:48:17
never done one since and whatever and just said you know I apologize for you know whatever and can we get on our
00:48:24
lives can we get on with our lives you know um but yeah I think that was by the way
00:48:30
your apology was quite psychas yeah yeah yeah yeah well not one of them said we sorry for the situation you found
00:48:35
yourself in I don't think that John particularly likes that part of the book
00:48:39
um who who wants to have you know your dark times I know he doesn't like it at all
00:48:45
um but I as I said to him it's my story and its context you know um and and that's life life is life is not a
00:48:52
greatest hits album for anyone is it no well I think it's the story of the recovery that remarkable not what
00:48:57
actually happened it's like that just goes as Testament to him and myself how
00:49:02
we had to knuckle down and um you know rebuild ourselves again and that's that's more of an achievement than had
00:49:11
life just carried on you know like that and it may have taken a different path you know I wouldn't have had to go to
00:49:17
work or I wouldn't and I wouldn't have had the opportunities and um yeah and
00:49:22
the relation race relations commissioner did pay well it's a you know it's a not
00:49:26
quite a public servant it's a state servants role but most senior public servants are paid
00:49:32
very well yeah but I certainly um you know worked hard while whilst I was in there and um you know some of it could
00:49:39
be be described as blood money but should we get wait to that in a second but first of all I just want to like
00:49:44
just park on the the the nigh Hood stuff for a little bit um because there were some um cool perks that came along with
00:49:50
that this might be a good opportunity to drop a couple of names so you got to go
00:49:53
to a dinner with um President Bill Clinton um you met him you had like a meet and gret yeah I think that's my
00:50:01
story of the most famous person I've met I was going to say that but I've
00:50:03
actually met Prince Dy and Prince Charles and the queen but um the funniest story was I went to this dinner
00:50:09
and again John wasn't invited you know funny wasn't it but saved on the babysitting and I went along and saved
00:50:15
on the babysitting yeah and it was you were you were sitting next to um a couple of sewers S I was with Sita Blake
00:50:22
and Lady Blake there you go s Hillary and Lady Hillary so they got their Partners yeah that seems that seems
00:50:28
unreal I said next Chelsea Clinton and um anyway I just was a bit Star Struck really um and the President Bill Clinton
00:50:37
was like sitting five or so meters away and I I saw that people were just being introduced to him and shaking his hand
00:50:44
and I thought I'm going to see if I can and I had um been to edman Hillary's
00:50:49
80th birthday not long before that and sat with the American ambassador his name was yosiah Beaman so I went up to
00:50:55
him and said look um if the opportunity presents your could you please introduce
00:50:59
me to the president and he came along later and took me over and I stood up and I was you know I mean there's
00:51:04
something charismatic about that guy despite all the stories about him and uh he introduced me by saying Mr President
00:51:11
this is deam soono she is she is and I thought God what's he gonna say and he
00:51:17
said she's New Zealand's most prolific Olympic gold medalist I thought oh God
00:51:20
he's completely forgotten and then I thought what am I going to say I mean the president probably doesn't even know
00:51:26
what squash is and he said oh really how many medals have you won and I said 10 and then
00:51:32
realized the absolute absurdity of that and he looked at me very sort of you know Riley and said well you must be the
00:51:39
world's most prolific I was so embarrassed by that stage I'd crawl back on my hands and knees and this is Prem
00:51:45
Michael Phelps so yeah you would no no one no woman would have won 10 gold medals and the you know and I certainly
00:51:52
didn't look like a diver or a swimmer or something like that did I so um but I
00:51:57
always always love that and I always think you know I was s sitting in that room with all those people thinking God
00:52:03
who would have thought as a young girl growing up in Roa Vegas that I'd be sitting here one on a Sunday night with
00:52:10
400 of the world's top leaders and people you know that was sort of amazing really it's funny I I I think we all
00:52:18
have that at some point where just inside you still feel like that um 8-year-old that 8-year-old from wherever
00:52:26
you are for me it's from paliston North for you it's from you know Roo hey it's
00:52:30
funny you just don't feel like you belong in these environments necessarily um what were you you were sort of
00:52:35
friends with sured right you were yeah yeah yeah yeah well I would got a lot to do with them really I mean you know you
00:52:41
went to and got invited to his 80th birthday um you went to lots of events and functions where you were sort of on
00:52:47
the A-list then you know and he was often there but yeah I think he's probably my most favorite New Zealander
00:52:56
and and uh I also tell that funny story that you know I used to get asked to donate things for auction uh
00:53:03
for fundraising things and you know no rackets no balls no frilly neets left and whatever and then someone came up
00:53:09
with this idea why didn't you just get a $5 note and sign it and then get sir Ed
00:53:14
toci sign it and Sir edman lived down the road for me when we lived in Oakland and I remember taking the boys there one
00:53:20
day and um I went and got them signed and I told the boys to stay in the car at all cost chop their legs off they
00:53:27
were only pretty young anyway when SED walked me up the driveway the boys were in the car and he said why don't you
00:53:33
bring them in and I jez okay anyway we went in and they were very well behaved I mean they were young honestly and then
00:53:40
we were leaving and I said now boys what do you say you know you teach children say thank you very much for having me
00:53:44
and they said that and then my eldest said God you must be really rich for an old fell and he was like why is that he
00:53:51
says cuz you got your face on all the $5 notes and then my second son piped up and said yeah cuz I was tell telling
00:53:56
them who we were going to visit and what he' done and my second son ped up and
00:53:59
said yeah my mom said you're really famous cuz you've climbed Mount Eden so um I just say out of the mouths
00:54:05
of babes yeah oh that's a great story I'm sure he would have appreciated it
00:54:09
right did he laugh yeah yeah yeah yeah he a he was a a very um amazing man actually amazing man I I
00:54:17
just remember his um this is sort of pre cell phones um just when there was the um white pages and the Yellow Pages his
00:54:25
his name was always listed on the phone book so anyone could call him we'd have
00:54:29
him on the radio from time to time cuz his number was just available it was yeah and he was the most famous New
00:54:34
Zealand or imaginable at that time you couldn't imagine if there was White Pages now say I don't know Richie mcco
00:54:40
having his well I think he's probably still the most famous New Zealand really
00:54:43
you know if you think about it who would who would people in the world know most
00:54:47
and well perhaps they wouldn't now I don't know might be uh what about Mandela you got to meet Nelson Mandela
00:54:53
yeah but only briefly only briefly can't actually I mean I did meet him but I
00:54:58
can't actually recall no story conversation no no no stories no more stories about famous people it's all
00:55:03
about me now I know Prince your time's nearly up your time's nearly up is it
00:55:07
how long you giving me yeah how how long we got yeah well you said an hour and we're an hour at 101 geez you're full of
00:55:14
[ __ ] you get me in here on the pretense and you say it's only an hour and I'll be lucky to get out of here by
00:55:18
2:00 there's um well this I can be part two because I hear you're going to do
00:55:22
two two podcasts aren't you soon two per week yeah yeah yeah like could be famous
00:55:27
one day normal the next we we as soon as you've had enough you can you can say
00:55:31
enough but there's just there's so many thre I'm only joking I'll give you a
00:55:34
okay I've just got another appointment at 3:00 CU I'm in big demand 2 o' I mean
00:55:38
sorry okay um okay so Prince Charles um you met him him he wasn't the king then
00:55:43
he was the prince but he made a rude joke um well probably be construed as rude these days but at the time it was
00:55:50
funny um oh it is it is funny yeah yeah yeah so um I got invited when Jim Balo was prime minister to a sort of like a
00:55:59
barbecue type thing on a one night on um at Premier house the one that's falling
00:56:04
down around our ear apparently and I remember that I think Max C was playing the piano
00:56:11
and Dame malvin ofer not that anybody out there will know who these people are now um and Prince Charles arrived and I
00:56:17
had just retired and Jim Bal introduced John and I and was something along the lines
00:56:25
of Susan have always retired to start a family and Prince Charles said something
00:56:30
along the lines well I hope you're having a lot of fun practicing he was actually a very very
00:56:35
very nice man and at the end of the evening it was just like a group of people sitting around a campfire even
00:56:41
though it was a grand piano singing along and yeah at the moment at the time where these um encounters are happening
00:56:49
do they seem like a big deal or do they just seem like like a massive sort of thing when you look back now and go holy
00:56:54
[ __ ] this was my life this happened happened to me yeah you know I think they are um I mean they are a big deal
00:57:01
at the time of course they are and you know the funny thing is you look back at them and you think I remember meeting
00:57:05
Bill Clinton I meeting Prince Charles I remember meeting but none of them remember meeting you of course so that
00:57:11
puts you right back and thing I think the funniest story and it's not in the
00:57:14
book is that John relayed the other day was I couldn't go to we were invited to
00:57:18
a garden party at um government house in Oakland and I was a away competing John
00:57:23
was here but he went along and he said you know the Queen's walking past him
00:57:28
you know coming towards him and he's like oh yes I'm going to shake your head
00:57:31
and then said when she got really near he just F shed himself I don't want to
00:57:34
I'm too scared to shake her hand I'm too scared to shake please don't shake my
00:57:37
hand he said I was just she's just a person but I was completely overall you
00:57:41
know he said who would have ever thought I'd be inches away from the queen and he
00:57:45
said thank God she just went past me and I thought well yeah so there he's got a
00:57:50
well you know thrill out of meeting some of these people and um yeah it's just
00:57:56
it's just funny well lucky things that you have happen in your life that change
00:58:00
you and yeah what about what about Lady D what was was that with Prince Charles no yeah that was at a function in
00:58:07
Cardiff in Cardiff Castle or I think it was Castle called um and at at a function and um I just
00:58:18
shook hands she had that polite smile and we did our little curtsies we didn't
00:58:21
have any conversations we didn't have any conversations with either of them actually um but the terrible thing about
00:58:25
that is is that it was my former coach that took the photos of Lady Dy in the gym that would came
00:58:34
the SC with the cameras in the ceiling yeah right so I felt pretty stink you know that made me sort of yeah oh wow
00:58:47
that's right I forgot all about that go she had a rough run of it didn't she
00:58:50
yeah I didn't write about that in the book The book's about me not about that
00:58:53
but I mean that was yeah but um yeah it was um yeah that was a very interesting time
00:59:00
actually yeah so um onto the race relations commissioner job which was um your job from 2013 to 2018 first of all
00:59:09
like what what is that role I I honestly um until you got that role i' I'd never
00:59:14
heard about that role before didn't even know it existed well that's a good thing
00:59:16
isn't it at least I rais the profile yeah yeah 100% I think you know to just
00:59:21
to sum it up um the commission the Human Rights Commission exists in um most countries have a National
00:59:29
Institution of Human Rights you know it's to make sure that people's you know
00:59:34
who human rights are upheld I mean we just take them for granted here in New Zealand we think that we've got a
00:59:38
fantastic human rights record and whatever um but in essence Commissioners whether you're the disability
00:59:44
commissioner or you know the indigenous commissioner or the race relations commissioner you basically your job is
00:59:49
to hold the government to account you know we report we're part of the um you
00:59:55
know we report to the United Nations in Geneva or New York on you know gender equality and all those things and that's
01:00:02
what the commissioner does is to hold the government to account you have a five-year reporting process on how
01:00:09
you're going as a country and whatever and um you know and I think for New Zealand people don't necessarily
01:00:16
understand that role um as as you don't yeah um and uh and so therefore it's
01:00:23
it's not as people see that I am the judge juror and adjudicator of whether someone is racist or not or when someone
01:00:30
has a brain fade and makes a comment that people think that that's what the Commissioners role is to come out and
01:00:35
say you know I mean our job is to you know uphold people's rights stick up for
01:00:40
them you know call out racism or discrimination or whatever like that and um yeah I mean I I
01:00:49
think yeah I think things could be better and I think things are better now in the Human Rights Commission and
01:00:58
internally and but you know we don't even have a commissioner at the moment since Ming left Ming Fon they haven't
01:01:03
replaced that role so I think there's going to be some changes with this new
01:01:06
government as to whether how that organization still exists yeah it must have been a curious time in your life so
01:01:11
you were sort of shoulder tapped really by Judith Collins to apply for the job um and then you then you so you go
01:01:17
through the whole employment process you get the job and then there's like immediate backlash um to the point where
01:01:22
you you turn up to your house after the announcement has been made and um there's there's a flock of journalists
01:01:27
there so you have to hide in the boot of a mate's car yeah I mean it was is that
01:01:30
the first first and only time you've been in the boot of someone's car and
01:01:33
I'm claustrophobic so I nearly [ __ ] myself um but yeah I I just I was complet I mean I wasn't so naive that I
01:01:40
thought everyone thought it was going to be a unly wonderful appointment but I didn't think that I would be get so much
01:01:46
criticism and was that because I was you know a Pia white woman or was it because
01:01:52
I was a woman or was it because you know do you think maybe people thought it was a token job because it's just
01:01:58
like a you're the sports person like a high-profile Sports person I think the
01:02:01
fact that I was a sports person meant that I was the most unqualified job for the RO they hadn't realized that i' done
01:02:06
a whole lot of other things since I'd retired that made me perhaps not the best qualified but suitably qualified or
01:02:13
youd think they'd at least give me a chance before I cocked it up they had to
01:02:16
go at me so yeah that seems only fear yeah yeah but I also think you know it's
01:02:20
uh was an interesting time that I got a lot of Cen but again there was that um that Mech ISM you know where I just
01:02:26
blocked it all out most of it and um and I thought you know once I finally did get started that know nothing could be
01:02:35
I'd be well prepared for anything that was you know coming my way but it was it
01:02:39
was pretty tired at times it became quite but you know I'm I'm sort of most
01:02:43
proud of myself that at least I stuck up and did my job I was never you know never afraid to confront
01:02:49
issues or people or whatever you know I mean I some other funny stories that I I
01:02:55
told was you know I'd be sitting there about to talk about something on the TV
01:02:59
whether it's about refugees or something like that and people like the prime
01:03:03
ministers of the time I was there John Key and Jinder would be sitting there like John was saying oh what are you g
01:03:07
to talk about today Susan and I'd say well it depends what you say John you know it's like yeah you know um so and
01:03:15
you know I I respect the politicians that knew that you were calling them out because that was your job to do you know
01:03:22
and um rather than you know and Judith was same she said you could do what you like Susan because the role is
01:03:27
independent but you know I operate on no surprises if you're going to criticize
01:03:32
something then at least give me the grace to tell me first so that's how good politics should work yeah what what
01:03:37
and the hindsight on and reflection what are the highs and lows of that role oh just the people I met and just you know
01:03:42
I'm just phenomenal really I mean I really um I mean I I did love working in
01:03:48
the refugee sector you know I mean there's always highs and lows of everything the sad and negative side of
01:03:55
that thing but there's also enormous amount of positivity and meeting those people that have just survived something
01:04:00
that we wouldn't even comprehend or understand and what great new zealanders
01:04:03
they make where you you know the average kiwi looks at thinking they're just
01:04:07
taking something away from them um uh yeah being involved in complete understanding of the whole ethnic
01:04:15
composition of our country is pretty amazing you know it's like um you know understanding you know what being super
01:04:24
diverse really means and what the issues are suring that I mean it's we are a
01:04:29
really we are indeed a multicultural country on a bicultural foundations but it's the biculturalism
01:04:37
that we're stuck on we haven't sorted that out you know we haven't acknowledged um well not we there is
01:04:43
still a lot of opposition to the you know most of the complaints and things I got to me personally or even to the
01:04:48
commission were anti- Mari and anti-treaty which means we haven't grown up very much as a country we should be
01:04:53
proud of our treaty you know look at what's happening in Australia you know we should be really proud of how far
01:04:59
we've come when we were a young country we could be so much better than we are
01:05:02
now yeah um but I could have written a whole book about that you know I just didn't have I could have written 17
01:05:09
million words on My Views and but my views aren't always right they're just
01:05:12
My Views now it must have been um eye opening like you must have learned a lot there must been a lot of stuff that
01:05:17
surprised you in that time yeah yeah there was actually um it wasn't so much
01:05:23
um not all of it surprised me as I said there were some positives and some negatives and uh you know I think
01:05:30
everyone that's had that role has gone and at a certain time and there's been
01:05:33
some you know major issues to contend with um you know when I at the time that I was there there was a lot of
01:05:40
anti-immigration anti-asian you know all of that stuff so um but yeah and every I
01:05:46
think every commissioner had the time has said we're out of Crossroads and with this current government and the way
01:05:51
we're going we're certainly at a Crossroads aren't we I mean it's like
01:05:55
holy hell um I wouldn't want to be um I wouldn't want to be the commissioner now
01:06:01
and I think the other thing too was the Christ Massacre even though it finished then that was sort of really
01:06:07
um you know that came home to roast roast for me because I had done a lot of work with the Muslim Community
01:06:13
particularly the women and their I don't know their request for some help and
01:06:18
whatever is were just completely ignored by our government departments and that sort
01:06:23
of um and I'm not saying that that would have changed what happened there and
01:06:28
everything but um they were generally concerned about threats to them but whereas our government department is
01:06:33
only concerned about the threats that perhaps Isis or other terrorist groups had so yeah looking under the wrong rock
01:06:40
all the time I think I don't know um how how much if any at all you want to dwell
01:06:46
on um any of the like personal negatives of that time but you sort of touch upon
01:06:49
some of these in the book like um you the threats of being kneecapped yeah and the dog sh incident yeah well I wrote I
01:06:57
wrote a little bit more in depth about that in the book and then it went to the lawyers and because you can't um I mean
01:07:02
it's true but couldn't name the organization or this and I'm like God
01:07:09
why but anyway I didn't um yeah I mean I got a death threat I got threat to be
01:07:16
kneecapped I got physically assaulted one day up the mount not not brutally um what do you what do you mean physically
01:07:22
assaulted like um like actually like like going up the mount with John one day you know MOA is the place of our
01:07:29
happy place and I was going up and I we were walking down and a guy was running up so was obviously quite fit and he
01:07:35
just sort of pushed me to the side and called me a brown loving nword loving you know and I got hell of a frud I was
01:07:42
just so shocked and he continued on running and John and I just walked down in complete silence as if you know and
01:07:48
we got to the bottom and John said because he always says calls me sweee you know doesn't M Mar anything uh he
01:07:54
said oh sweetie um that's my favorite thing to do I said John do you just comprehend what
01:07:59
happened I said if that was me if someone had abused you like that I would have run and chase them even if I was
01:08:05
slow and old like you are and punch their bloody lights out at the top and he said oh yeah I just couldn't believe
01:08:10
that happened I've just put it to one side you know and i' came home and there
01:08:14
would be a box of dogs doing wrapped up you know and Christmas wrapping outside of my house or Hobson's pledges bloody
01:08:21
pamphlets posted all over our door and was quite confronting book on Christianity sent to the squash my local
01:08:29
squash Club you know please give to Susan devoy I mean it was just um very kind of pity but also very personal as
01:08:36
well yeah or you'd be walking the supermarket and someone would sort of come up to you you know an older
01:08:41
gentleman or something and sort of poke you in the chest with their you know young lady you know you've got it all
01:08:47
wrong and and you know it was just why were people so threatened you know like um I I found it yeah um it's really
01:08:59
confrontational yeah it is it is but I think that's part of living in a small
01:09:03
country like New Zealand everyone's sort of you see people don't you in the
01:09:09
supermarket or walking down the street or whatever that that are that are public profiles or may have a job or
01:09:14
have views that you don't agree with and then suddenly new zealanders see them in
01:09:17
real life or whatever or they want to make their views really strongly felt they feel like they can go to and do
01:09:23
something to you um yeah but it wasn't so much scary it was just a bit freaky I
01:09:29
thought how was your mental health in that during that time I know you're a very very tough cookie and you're a
01:09:34
resilient person but you are still at the end of the day just a human being um yeah were you okay during during this
01:09:40
period um that would I'm just thinking I'm probably projecting here that would
01:09:43
wear me down yeah no I coped at the time it wasn't until I left and there were a
01:09:47
whole lot of internal wranglings within the commission that again I couldn't talk about it
01:09:52
great length but um oh yeah so it was a 5-year term in in the end you were sort of um there was like a review and you
01:09:58
were sort of like booted out is that how it was essentially no I don't think I
01:10:02
wasn't necessarily booted out by the result of the review I sort of fell on my sword and by Falling on My Sword what
01:10:07
they say about you you like was it you're a bully or you're no I wasn't a
01:10:10
bully I was I wasn't the bully I was the disruptor right I was calling out the
01:10:15
bullies um but you know the lesson around that is it comes at Great personal cost to be a whistleblower and
01:10:22
if anyone out there's considering doing it I'd be free very very very careful
01:10:26
yeah one of the things I would say that some of these reviews and inquiries and whatever they they're they're supposed
01:10:33
to be to expose the villains and the peace but sometimes they're actually there to to to cover them up and it
01:10:39
wasn't until I finished I suppose with all of that that happened that I realized that I was burnt out and uh
01:10:46
yeah I mean I just basically I started developing anxiety having panic attacks you know like something that was
01:10:56
completely foreign to me and it took so how old were you like mid-50s yeah yeah yeah 55 I think 55 yeah and because I'd
01:11:04
never experienced anything like that I just didn't quite know what was and John
01:11:08
was living in Melbourne he was working for the company that he was running in New Zealand had asked him to go to
01:11:12
Australia and I just felt quite alone really and isolated and it wasn't until
01:11:16
a friend sort of identified or said to me you're not right I don't know what
01:11:20
not right meant just not yourself though yeah yeah this is not normal and and you
01:11:25
know I was sitting at home drinking a bottle of wine every night thinking that you know that would
01:11:31
take the edge off and I'd feel normal in the morning and you know as I said used
01:11:34
to love running around Mo or up you know whatever and I thought none of this gives me any Joy anymore I thought and
01:11:40
so yeah I went and um uh got some help and obviously I had been you know I was depressed and it was
01:11:48
more the anxiety and everything that was worried me and um I tried some medication and that made it worse and
01:11:54
then it was wasn't too I took some counseling really and you know I'm one
01:11:58
of those stoic I'm a bit like these BLS really I don't need any help in that
01:12:01
regard but well it's a generational thing isn't it where you know it's B
01:12:05
like going seeing a sports scientist sports psychologist you know I I was sort of 20 years before that thought
01:12:10
they were odd and I thought um this is okay A bit of exercise stop drinking every night you'll be right you know
01:12:17
come on sold your socks up yeah yeah um but I suppose it was the counseling that
01:12:22
unraveled everything and saw where that it was just you know it was just episodic events had built up that had
01:12:30
happened internally and externally during my time there that I hadn't you know I hadn't had any supervision I
01:12:37
hadn't addressed the things at the time and yeah it just sort of came to a Melting Pot and John was living in
01:12:43
Melbourne so he didn't really understand he had a bit of pressure in his job not
01:12:46
like mine but we would but get together and we'd think oh we won't talk about
01:12:50
any of that cuz we've only got this short period of time together let's try
01:12:53
and you know have do on the fun stuff yeah but he's also we're also different
01:12:57
personalities you know he has if something happens in his life that's not necess that's negative or whatever he's
01:13:03
got this amazing ability to think well that happened it's done you know whereas
01:13:07
I'm the stew get even want Justice gonna get even you know gon to get back at that person Jesus they if
01:13:15
they piss me off and sha at last man they're going to pay for it you know that sort of thing and it's just the
01:13:21
different whereas you know sometimes you got to look in the back in the past to see the future but so yeah and I and I
01:13:27
mean he's just the incredible Optimist drives me bloody nuts imagine waking up
01:13:30
with someone every morning that's grateful for everything it's very draining yeah I think you need him are
01:13:37
you are you quite good at letting your walls down with him and being being open with him as he oh geez the poor guys are
01:13:41
battering around well they thanks so much for sharing this stuff it's um like it's I I
01:13:48
think it's really um empowering and um yeah a couple of other people have had
01:13:52
on the podcast Adam perori do you remember wet keeper and John Hart the um former all black coach and they both
01:13:59
talked about um your sort of midlife depression that they suffered John Hart circumstantial after he lost the 99
01:14:05
World Cup and came back and there was a toet of abuse and people spat on him at a horse race me Adam peror just from a
01:14:11
relationship break up but um it's you sort of think of depression and mental
01:14:16
health issues to be largely like a I don't know like a teenage or something that happens in your 20s but it can
01:14:21
happen later in life and it's it's alarming and scary when it does happen
01:14:24
yeah app well I think it's just um it can be episodic or it can be you know circumstantial can be chemical it can be
01:14:32
you know I mean I'm not an expert on any of that um it's it's a bit like I talk
01:14:37
in the book about menopause you know no one wants to talk about that sort of stuff either but um if I wish I wish now
01:14:44
that I that we can always feel brave enough to seek help and try and find out what's causing these things so that we
01:14:50
can get better quickly I think back now and think God I didn't have to go through that
01:14:56
you don't get a medal at the end for saying oh God she stuck it out for so long until she get she got some help or
01:15:00
vice you know whatever um and um it's not brave talking about it's just I mean
01:15:08
you know if you were interviewing John and I he'd say nothing about nothing it'd be like getting blood out of a
01:15:12
stone and your interview would have taken 10 minutes you'll have to shut me up after two hours because I'll just go
01:15:16
on and on and on and on and on because I like to wear my heart on my sleeve it's
01:15:20
just me yeah yeah are you quite good at um showing vulnerability like it's um
01:15:25
sort of a kind of a buzzword now and everyone is starting to realize that vulnerability is um like a almost like a
01:15:30
superpower rather than a weakness but I don't think it's uh I don't describe it
01:15:35
like that um I I just think it's I think it's it's just a new personality lots of people find it easy
01:15:41
to talk about normal [ __ ] you know whereas a lot of people I mean John's very guarded he's very personal and
01:15:47
private and you know I had to acknowledge that in the book that you know um I mean it does come out looking
01:15:53
like Prince Charming but you know the whole business thing was hard for him and then I thought but that's just life
01:15:59
but we deal with things differently you know some people are very private and personal and um you know like to don't
01:16:06
like to share things whereas I overshare so that's not necessarily always a good
01:16:11
thing either yeah do do you cry much you much of a crier well I don't not going to walk out
01:16:20
of here and burst into tears um yeah I cry in movies and funerals and but I don't just sit there and bl yeah yeah sh
01:16:29
you're a tough cookie aren't you do you think part of this is just being being
01:16:31
surrounded by so much male energy um I think I'm my mother's daughter you strong and tough and you
01:16:39
know whatever oh your mom yeah sh we haven't even got to your got to your mom
01:16:43
yet I was going to um talk about celebrity treasure Islander but then there's some bits and pieces and your
01:16:48
mom fits under that category like there's one story in particular like you her being in hospital when you were 12
01:16:52
and you taking a box of beers her which she stashed under the hospital bed it's
01:16:57
amazing well I laughed about that cuz as I said I'm looking after my helping look
01:17:00
after my brother and his um wife whove had a unfortunate series of events and we were talking about that the other day
01:17:07
cuz they've got the hospital beds set up in their Lounge you know delivered by
01:17:11
ACC and all that stuff and I looked under the bed and I said oh that's where
01:17:14
the creat a bear that M you know I mean she just Rings me at home on the phone hello oh Susan can you get the crate of
01:17:20
DB put it on the rally 20 get one of those bungee tubes tied up and off I went up the um you know up the track
01:17:28
through down D Street up to the private hospital and you know they had those oh so so it wasn't even a box of beers it
01:17:34
was like a a crate of Jack the mus bottles crate of big bottles yeah um is so you so this was like 50
01:17:41
years ago almost so you were 12 12 years old it's funny cuz yeah uh I'm I'm like
01:17:46
10 years younger than you but yeah mom used to send me to the the dairy to buy a pack of smokes for her and it's a
01:17:50
different time imagine walking into the hospital now 12-year-old girl with a I know I know and it's like um you know it
01:17:57
was I mean that's the funny story that the first time I took John home to meet
01:18:01
my parents we lived in a state house and P cant and Ro and my parents were heavy
01:18:05
smokers and he walked in there and it was like 11:00 in the morning I just picked him up from the airport and he
01:18:10
walked in he said we could see with this Haze of smoke and you know my parents got up the their daughter's you know
01:18:16
first real boyfriend and sit down son would you like a beer and he thought oh God these these big DB quart bottles on
01:18:23
the thing at 11:00 in the morning you thought might be rude not to but yeah that's sort of like um yeah they were
01:18:29
they were hard doers not here for a long time but here for a good time all right
01:18:34
let's talk about celebrity Treasure Island for a bit so first of all why you
01:18:37
get asked to go on it why did why did you say yes you got nothing to prove to anyone was it just an are you at that
01:18:42
stage of life where you're like oh this is a new opportunity and may as well
01:18:46
give it a go I sort of immediately thought no when I was asked when Chris Hayden rang me and you know that one of
01:18:52
those examples of something completely out of the blue and then I went home and I talked about it to John and
01:18:57
whatever and our son Elder son and his partner were living with us at the time and she was like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah
01:19:04
you could do that you know whatever and they must have watched a few shows and thought whatever and
01:19:10
um I sort of thought if I they sort of convinced me to say yes but I also thought if I say no I'm never going to
01:19:16
be asked again you know it's like um and the funny thing was they I think the producers thought that I'd never go
01:19:24
go on something like that because I don't know what the perception of who I am or what I might be like is um and
01:19:30
then I thought ah yeah I'm only going to be there for a few days surely I can do
01:19:35
that you know tough it out for a couple of days I didn't imagine that I'd be on
01:19:39
there too long so yeah I um reluctantly agreed to do it so who who was on who were some of the stars on
01:19:46
your series and who won that series uh it all sort of blows into one there's so
01:19:50
many people on these shows does that Jesse chuk won it oh yeah um and iner the Winger he was he was uh oh that was
01:19:56
that was a tragedy about it yeah cuz iner died before those show started Mike King Mike King's
01:20:04
Daughter um oh that's right you told M what did you you told Mike King to shut
01:20:08
the [ __ ] up well not quite like that not quite like that um no I didn't but you
01:20:13
know Mike came out he was he was being very obnoxious on that I we were texting backwards and forwards after that and he
01:20:18
said I I just can't I I realized I can't go on shows like this anymore cuz it
01:20:21
brings out the ego in me and it brings back a person that I'm not anymore and I
01:20:25
don't want to be anymore so I think he sort of had regs have you had him on the
01:20:28
show about that yeah yeah oh no I think I had him on the the podcast pre right celebrity Treasure Island but um I like
01:20:35
Mike and I like the work he does yeah yeah yeah well this government is certainly supporting M and the work he
01:20:40
does yeah I just found it a bit odd that someone who's um someone who's Works in that whole era
01:20:48
of mental health had a bit of a go at everyone yeah you know yeah I think it had quite an impact on people right I
01:20:54
think think it really did you know and I'm not sure he he understands no I think yeah yeah the way he sort of
01:21:00
described it to me is like ah you know I think he just has this ego or performer
01:21:04
that comes out of him and yeah so he just can't put himself I sorry for Alex
01:21:07
you know his daughter in there because you know I mean yeah anyway it it was what it it is
01:21:13
what it is and um it was what it was but um but you enjoyed the experience mostly
01:21:18
and hindsight um yeah yeah hindsight hindsight would be well I went and did it again so so what hindsight is a great
01:21:26
thing yeah I think I um I hated it for the first week I just was desperate to go home you know if I
01:21:35
wasn't the captain someone would sent me off and then no one would send me off
01:21:37
because I wasn't even much of a threat you know um but yeah yeah I think in hindsight I it it's it's a as Alvis Leti
01:21:44
said it's a silly silly silly silly show and that's the only way you can take it
01:21:49
some people took it far too seriously and you know and look you throw people together who are hungry and tired and
01:21:57
you know you're bound to have some meltdowns aren't you and some personality clashes that's just happens
01:22:02
a normal life and that certainly happened on there but um yeah there were some unlikely friendships that I formed
01:22:08
you know and I loved Bri the presenter Bri Thomas yeah she's a great human She
01:22:14
Wonderful she is she is amazing and we've stayed in touch I loved cam mens all the young you know and people that I
01:22:20
would never Lance sarley you know I'd never met met up or had contact or formed connections with people like that
01:22:28
and so you know for one month of my life I felt that I was quite young yeah there was some amazing
01:22:35
highlights um or maybe low lights I don't know there was the I remember that
01:22:39
very clearly the T from episode where you sort of plunk yourself down in the sand it was almost like a total of 10
01:22:43
from in away um was that just like pure raar what was that it was it was raining
01:22:48
right was terrible we'd been up all night and it actually was quite scary I mean as you say I'm pretty tough but I
01:22:54
really thought that you know a beam was going to fall off our Hut and it was you know it was sort of storm
01:23:01
weather I mean like cyclone and I got everyone up and I knew that there was a little place up there I'd seen it on my
01:23:07
travels that we we all bunked down there and then we got told off to go back and
01:23:10
then in the middle of that with rough Seas knowing how petrified I'm in the water they make us do a bloody swimming
01:23:15
challenge I mean these producers I've just started watching Married at First
01:23:20
Sight I have to oh it's addictive isn't it my God I never watched but I've been
01:23:24
helping you know at night we sit down and watch this rubbish and it is and it's like you can just see having been
01:23:30
on a reality television show what the producers make people do they push it they push the buttons that's a formula
01:23:36
you've got to be I mean it's all dictated to by the story producers you know and whatever and they um luckily I
01:23:43
like the story producers on Celebrity treasure on they were really good um in fact probably wasn't for them I might
01:23:48
have just spack the dummy and volunteered or walked off seemed Mike could walk off and everyone else could
01:23:54
um but yeah it is um you just got to be aware of that you know not to be so naive that that's but again I didn't
01:24:01
watch it I never watched a single show of it so I don't know what I come like I
01:24:05
W down the next day people say but it doesn't it doesn't even matter anyway
01:24:08
it's um for people that watch it it's big news online for a couple of days and
01:24:11
then people move on and forget about it but the the but the Tantrum thing where you plunk yourself down in the sand um
01:24:17
yeah at the time I I suppose it's like all encompassing it feels like this things your entire life you know you
01:24:23
it's your whole sort of bubble I guess yeah I mean I think at that stage I was
01:24:27
just exhausted I actually couldn't believe that they just left us there that nobody had come down to check that
01:24:32
we were okay I mean we would might even go to the so far to say as we were quite
01:24:37
scared you know and I was like oh well you're just a bit of the talent you know
01:24:42
off you go we're the important people here um but that you know I knew we were
01:24:46
going I think it was the thing that going in the water cuz I hate water it's
01:24:49
like yeah you had a near near drining incident as young and I just have never yeah and know it's just not my thing and
01:24:55
I thought God um anything else well nearly virtually not no not anything else but a lot of other things I could
01:25:02
cope with but that was just you know but um yeah and and the other thing is you forget you're on TV don't you you're
01:25:08
just living in the moment and it's pissy off so yeah and there were some amazing
01:25:13
um Dame Susan devoy quotes and I I I think this is some of the things you said it's just like language that you
01:25:19
don't expect from a Dame whatever that means um like um what was there oh you
01:25:24
you were talking about a pum and you said um Jim's got a big veg yeah yeah well again I didn't forgot that would go
01:25:31
on television but this is the real Susan Dey we're seeing this is no not really
01:25:36
no not really um you're not embarrassed by that well on National Television yeah
01:25:42
someone told me I said that that's the sort of thing that Susan would say after
01:25:45
she had a few wines but the problem is over there there weren't a few wines so
01:25:48
that's what came all piss holes in the snow and all that sort of thing but um
01:25:52
yeah and I nearly blew a Fufu valve yeah I think that's what I think people thought that was quite outrageous but
01:25:58
generally that's probably pretty much me actually yeah I think it's good on you
01:26:03
for you know agreeing to do it because it's you know it's very easy as you get
01:26:07
I think as you get older like I'm I'm 10 years younger than you but you can
01:26:11
either say what the [ __ ] and say yes to things or just be closed off and you you
01:26:16
know you can get more fearful as you get older um I I think I can be both on any
01:26:20
given day it depends you how I feel when I you're not that old watch till you get
01:26:23
to my age then you really know about it do you feel old I do I do feel I don't
01:26:30
yeah know I do feel old because as I said I can't do a lot of things um yeah yeah well when I say do I feel
01:26:37
60 no do I behave like I'm 60 no uh but am I 60 years you know and it's like um so do
01:26:45
you think it's how other people treat you or just is it something internally
01:26:48
it's just something internally I know I I never thought that I'd be that
01:26:51
pathetic about an age you know it's like um and it's all recent so I'm coming to
01:26:55
terms with it I'm sure in a month or two when I'm 60 and a half I'll have got
01:26:59
over that and I'll be you know down the other side and then I feel very selfish
01:27:04
because people say to me you're lucky you got that phone and then I am reminded actually that not everyone gets
01:27:09
the privilege of living and or and in good health yeah that's true aging is better than the alternative exactly and
01:27:15
in good health and still with lots of opportunities and things like that so I you know have to tell myself that um and
01:27:22
a little reminder to be grateful yeah I I think you're doing great and you could
01:27:26
still run another rotor room Marathon if that's what you wanted to do I believe
01:27:29
in you yeah well I might might run jog run jog are you running it um oh no you'll be in Paris of course no I'm
01:27:34
doing Paris and then youve got this one called the root B classic which is a trail run I've never done Road run but
01:27:39
it's I feel like it's one of those iconic New Zealand runs that I do need
01:27:42
to do at some point so the root bur is 57k no no it's like 32ks but it's quite
01:27:48
Steep and I did the last year it's gorgeous bloody good um okay some bits and pieces then you can be dismissed um
01:27:56
there's there's a story that I've heard I don't know if this um is something
01:27:59
that you've mentioned at some public speaking engagements but a couple of people um asked me to ask you about the
01:28:05
uh Rose bow trophy story H you've been reading my old book haven't you you're just lying about the
01:28:13
other people asking each other move on move on you can tell that one yourself move on move
01:28:19
on Corum here move on okay okay what is the roseall trophy by the way what what one do you win that in oh I can't
01:28:25
remember no to long story short I won a I think I won the South Australian Open and I won a the the trophy is a Rose
01:28:34
Bowl it's not the Rose Bowl trophy the trophy is in the shape of a Rose Bowl
01:28:38
you know so it's a bowl on a stand and I was billeted in the following week in
01:28:42
the Australian Open this is just to go show how unglamorous being a professional squash player was in my day
01:28:49
so I was bued with a sort of a oh I don't know um how would you describe them a ramshackle family that lived in
01:28:58
the [ __ ] wops he was so delighted to have a world champion come and stay at their
01:29:02
house that they gave the parents gave up their bed for me and they slept on the lounge floor while I could have their
01:29:09
bed the only problem was they had an outside toilet and nature called in the middle of the night and I was too
01:29:15
embarrassed to go out to the outside toilet and crawl over the people parents in the land awkward so I did try opening
01:29:23
the windows but they had those mosquito Nets to attach the wall so I relieved myself in my Rose Bowl
01:29:31
trophy and then the next day covered it with a towel and disposed of thing and someone I told that story and someone
01:29:38
said well that's the last time I ever drun it's it's a great story it's just
01:29:45
so refreshing and I think the thing I like about this the most do do you know ASA Scott at all ASA Scott she's from
01:29:50
toonga she's a really big star she's in a Bravo show called low deck oh of
01:29:55
course I do yes but she's she's got stories like that that she tells and
01:29:59
I've had her on the podcast and I said no one in the world would know about these humiliating stories but apart from
01:30:04
the fact that you've chosen to share them this is exactly the same with you with this story it's like no one needed
01:30:09
to know about this and it's so refreshing and awesome that you I mean it's very natural when you go you got to
01:30:15
go seem like the obvious thing to do doing on the floor or holding on forever and then the
01:30:21
next morning let you smuggle it out or just put my towel over it and pretend it was my toilet bag and put under my arm
01:30:28
and it's so good thank you very much for sharing um oh so there's the Devo squash
01:30:35
and fitness center how as someone that's never going to have a building named
01:30:38
after them how does it feel when you when you drive past when you walk into that
01:30:42
building um does it feel special or significant it would have done the first few times I'd imagine but does it yeah I
01:30:48
think when at first open and I was there all the time you know we lived around the corner and our boys were playing and
01:30:53
it was sort of like our second home or their second home anyway um then we've
01:30:57
moved to the mounts I don't get there as often and I'm not as involved in the
01:31:00
club as I used to but certainly yeah I mean it's you sort of take it for granted
01:31:05
really a little bit and then you walk in there and you realize [ __ ] that building's got my name on it and um yeah
01:31:10
what a it's the best scor club in New Zealand and what a legacy really and I
01:31:13
was involved in the um you know one of the main Main Stays of the project group that built it and raised the money for
01:31:21
it and did whatever and and it's where squash is going in the future so it's
01:31:26
pretty cool and you know for me um I didn't touch on it much in the book but
01:31:31
squash has made the Olympics now so and I'm on the world squash board so that
01:31:34
means our Sports been catapulted to a whole different Stratosphere and that's
01:31:38
when you talk about opportunities that just come out of the blue I didn't think
01:31:42
that was going to happen and so now I've going to get my teeth into making sure
01:31:45
that we um you know that we you got to be three cycles of Olympics before you become a full Olympic sport in Los
01:31:53
Angeles 28 is our first thing and you know what Joelle might still be playing I see she had an she's had an article in
01:32:01
her magazine saying she might still be playing but she'll be 39 or 40 oh she'll
01:32:05
be hanging on right if you're if you're in yeah but Paul Cole will still be
01:32:08
playing you know if he doesn't get injured or something happens to him um he's got to stop doing those silly
01:32:12
Superman Dives no he's got to keep doing those silly Superman Dives because that's what's going to make our sport
01:32:17
look amazing and you know he is he is just the most amazing athlete in terms of probably one of the fittest
01:32:26
athletes in the world and just a super super super amazing guy from Greymouth New Zealand who's you know
01:32:33
become has been a world a British Open Champion got to number one in the world and just keeps fighting and in an era
01:32:40
where squash is probably the strongest it's ever ever ever been so you know if
01:32:44
I can be part of that Journey um that's something um you know pretty fantastic
01:32:50
when Bill Clinton finds out it's an Olympic sport he's going to be like that
01:32:53
lady lied to me me well Bill will probably ring me for tickets he'll probably say you knows yeah yeah I think
01:32:59
the thing with the bll story that I forgot to say which was the key part was that um when he looked at me and you
01:33:03
know I realized I'd made a blue I thought well he's told a couple of great
01:33:07
big pork his life hasn't got away with it isn't it yeah that's true um and Kane
01:33:12
Williamson there's a story about Kane Williamson in your book which is amazing
01:33:16
one of the one of the greatest New Zealand cricketers ever well funny enough our boys went to toong and boys
01:33:21
college and um Peter Berling was the sports Captain one year Kane Williamson was the sports Captain the next year
01:33:31
and and Sam Kane had a year playing for the first 15 and Kane came and babysit when I was working at sportb plenty and
01:33:39
I was I sent the two oldest cuz I thought you know 15y old boy's going to might struggle with four kids and he
01:33:44
came and looked after the two youngest you know and of course they thought it was Heaven because he was a good rugby
01:33:48
player as well Kane so he could he would spend hours out them with booting a ball
01:33:53
and you know bowling and batting one day he wanted me to he asked if he could take them to the beach and I thought not
01:33:58
so sure about that that might be a recipe for disaster but yeah um yeah no it's uh yeah those are just you know
01:34:07
sort of Great Men aren't they you know Kane and and Peter Burling and all of those
01:34:14
guys just amazing uh yeah amazing men and amazing Sports people do can you remember what you paid Kane was it a
01:34:21
volunteer job or like 10 bucks an hour him I would have paid him I mean I mean I mean he doesn't need it now he's not
01:34:27
going to no his mom his mom worked at the school I think she might still work at the school at toer boys actually and
01:34:33
and his dad is his passion you know a passionate Cricket who's you know coached some of our boys and done
01:34:38
whatever but you know it just goes to show you know they're just people and they're just Champion people as well as
01:34:44
being Champion Sports people and I think in the end of the day that's what you're
01:34:47
going to be remembered for isn't it yeah you know I don't think you'll be I mean
01:34:51
that's what I would like to think that I'm remembered as being a good person
01:34:54
not just a great squash player not that everyone would think I'm a good person
01:34:58
but you know those that matter would I don't know I you're very self-deprecating but I think everyone
01:35:02
knows you're a good person you've been very alteristic like you've done um you
01:35:05
touch touch upon this probably not in as much detail as what you should in your new book um but there's been a lot of
01:35:11
time that you've given over the years to a lot of different organizations I think
01:35:15
that's something that you know if I was to have one regret or I'm only I don't
01:35:19
have many but uh I have you know I don't you can't write about that you can't say
01:35:23
well I'm a legion and I've done this this and this and this and this but I
01:35:26
have given up a lot of time and I wish now and I some people have said to me it's not too late but it probably is I
01:35:33
wish I'd set up my own Foundation you know that I'd done my own thing that I
01:35:38
could have some control about I've done a lot for others and and then stepped
01:35:42
aside which I think is a strength you sometimes to know when you've it's as
01:35:46
much a strength to know when to get off things as to stay on but um yeah I've
01:35:50
been toying with the idea of setting up a foundation for young squash players um not for young squash players but to
01:35:56
get young people involved in squash that perhaps you know not necessarily can afford the sport or you know get to it
01:36:02
and whatever so Never Say Never I suppose and and finally are are you proud of yourself yeah yeah yeah yeah I
01:36:12
am I'm proud that I finally made it to Dom's broadcast I Think Jesus I got it
01:36:18
done I don't have to be hassled anymore um oh I know you're only sort of
01:36:23
partially joking but I feel like there might be a little bit of Truth in there there is um yeah no I amum of course I'm
01:36:30
proud of myself why wouldn't you be I haven't I've done more good things than
01:36:33
bad things I haven't been perfect um but I love I love the imperfect things about
01:36:38
me too actually and um yeah but as I say I just hope my boys are proud of me they
01:36:43
may not be at the moment but they will eventually yeah I hope they don't love
01:36:47
why do you think they wouldn't be proud of you now well I think there I mean I'm
01:36:50
not um you know it's just cuz you're M and you're embarrassed yeah yeah okay
01:36:54
yeah oh and also we we don't agree on everything you know it's and that's
01:36:59
healthy um but yeah yeah and it's hard to please all of the people all the time
01:37:04
but yeah I think they'd be proud of both their parents you know and and what
01:37:09
we've done and the great relationships we have is really cool but um you know
01:37:13
they've got to pave their own way in the world now and as my husband keeps reminding
01:37:17
me well Dam Susan deoy it's um it's been an incredible life um first first 30
01:37:24
years I feel like that's the you the growing up years and the Squash years um
01:37:27
the second 30 years there's been so much that's happened in there lots of
01:37:30
surprising twists and tunes and um all going well in terms of longevity and stuff hopefully this is just the
01:37:36
beginning of the you know the the the third the third part of your life well you and I'll be sitting here as you keep
01:37:42
reminding me that you're 10 years younger than me you keep reminding me that repeatedly during this segment I
01:37:47
have many times I many years many times we'll be sitting here I'll be 90 and
01:37:51
you'll be 80 we'll be like Warren Buffett Charlie manga you know from the
01:37:54
book heway ual Jal meeting apparently we'll be sitting here saying and you'll
01:37:58
be saying oh I could bet I can still run around Victoria Park faster than you can
01:38:03
season oh no it's it wasn't I would love to be able to do that it's it's it's not
01:38:08
a flex or a brag I mean we're both old as [ __ ] but um I I find aging like quite
01:38:12
exciting in a way like there's I can still do the things that I want to do and I say you're looking very good nick
01:38:19
for a 50-year-old and obviously the running is part of that isn't it yeah as
01:38:23
to you as to you you look fit and healthy and vibrant yeah yeah yeah well thank you Dom I'm going to really it's
01:38:29
made my day well thank you very much thanks so much for for your time sorry that I
01:38:35
underestimated the time it was going to take um but you knew that all along didn't you you're such a f once you get
01:38:41
people in here you got them stuck yeah well you're such a fascinating person
01:38:44
like there's so much to your story and there's so much wi wisdom that you can
01:38:47
impart on others it's been an honor to sit down with you and get to pick your
01:38:51
brains for a little bit same all right cheers she enjoyed it she said same let's
01:38:57
[Music] go