00:00:06
Josh Coleman, welcome to my podcast. >> It's great to be here, Dom. It really is
00:00:11
from the first time we spoke to being here in your studio. Awesome to see the growth in you, man.
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>> Thanks, mate. Yeah, you're a you're a two-time guest. Um I I went back and listened to our
00:00:21
podcast yesterday. So, this was um around about 3 years ago. It was episode 25 of Runners Only with Dom Harvey. Um,
00:00:29
now it's just called the Dom Harvey podcast. I don't know how many episodes
00:00:32
I've done now. I've stopped counting, but it's up near a couple of hundred.
00:00:35
>> Thousands. Um, but last time, um, yeah. Can you remember the surroundings?
00:00:41
>> I do. It was, um, Hegley on the park, wasn't it? In your hotel room. And I
00:00:45
hadn't met you before. I only knew a little bit about you, and I was quite apprehensive of what was going to
00:00:50
happen. We walked up to the hotel room, there's clothes everywhere, dirty laundry on the ground, your little
00:00:57
box. What's what's it called? >> A roadcaster box. >> The road cer box on the table. It was
00:01:01
just an intimate interview in your hotel room, mate. Kleenex, tissues on the ground.
00:01:06
>> No, no, I'm only joking. >> He's embellishing. He's embellishing.
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Yeah, well, it was um Yes. So, that was in the early stages of the podcast and um there's a lot that's happened in um
00:01:16
actually both our lives since then. >> Yeah. But it's amazing to see your
00:01:19
growth, John, from the hotel room to here now. So, thanks for having me on >> and Oh, no. Anytime. I I assumed cuz you
00:01:25
reached out to me and I assumed you were in Oakuckland for something else and you
00:01:28
were like, "I may as well smash out a podcast while I'm here." You came up
00:01:31
especially to do the podcast. >> Yeah. Yeah. It was funny cuz every time I've been in Oakuckland, you've reached
00:01:36
out to me and said, "Hey, let's catch up." So, I've caught up a couple of
00:01:38
times and had a good conversation and then you mentioned to me, "Hey, you should come on your podcast." And I
00:01:43
turned you down. That's just me. Oh, I've already been on. Then I had a good
00:01:46
chat to well, I'd say she's a friend now, Die Foster. And she's like, "You
00:01:50
don't turn that stuff down." She gave me a good kick up the ass. And then so I
00:01:54
reached out out to you to go, "Hey man, I'm gonna take you up on your offer." So
00:01:58
yeah, >> absolutely. Well, it's great to have you back on. Um, yes, there's there's video
00:02:02
now as well, so people can like last time there was no I may have recorded some of it on my phone leaning against
00:02:07
the coffee cup. I can't >> But we've got cameras now, so people can
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get the full Josh Kman story experience. >> Sure. >> So Josh Kleman, who who is he? Well, you
00:02:19
were one of New Zealand's most promising middle distance runners. uh battled
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leukemia twice and endured years of grueling treatment including a bone marrow transplant and various
00:02:28
complications for that that tried to take you out. Now you spread the importance of perspective, gratitude and
00:02:34
the importance of living life fully. Would that be fair? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I just see myself as
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a word of encouragement to other people. I think I've got a responsibility to
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share the tools and things that I've acquired to help other people through through their own
00:02:50
difficulties in life. >> Yeah. >> So, just a word of encouragement. >> Um, we will get through like everything
00:02:57
you've been through from a health perspective. That all started in 2011. >> 2011. Yeah.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How are you now? Like physically, how are you today and
00:03:05
and in general? >> That's a real good question, Dom. It really is. Yeah, it is. Yeah, mentally
00:03:11
I'm really really good. I'm really good cuz I have a perspective of where I've
00:03:15
been and I don't ever want to lose that perspective cuz I understand I wake up,
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you know, what's the worst thing that could happen. I've been there. I know
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what could happen. However, I have this, you know, wealth of gratitude within me.
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I'm just so grateful for everything that's coming into my life because I
00:03:29
know how bad it can get. So, mentally, I'm very good. However, my body I do struggle with. You know, I do have
00:03:35
issues from my transplant. I acquired this graph rejection from my transplant which we'll talk about later. And that
00:03:41
gives me um a lot of pain, a lot of discomfort. I Yeah. And I struggle with it a lot, you know, especially with my
00:03:48
energy levels. My body's kind of glued together. So I I really struggle, especially when I go to bed. A lot of
00:03:54
people don't realize this, but during the day, I might might seem fine visually, but in the night, my body kind
00:03:59
of locks up. I have these convulsions, these spasms, these kind of cramps that really take a lot out of me.
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>> And then my eyes, too. I mean, I don't produce tears, nor do I produce saliva.
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So, I've had a lot of teeth pulled out. I've got this little thing in my hand.
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Water. I have to keep drinking water all the time. I've had an amniotic membrane
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graft, which is a bit of placenta put in my eye to help heal my eyes cuz I visually couldn't see at the end of last
00:04:22
year in my right eye. So, I have a whole host of problems, but the physicality of
00:04:25
myself, I really struggle with, but mentally, I'm very, very good cuz I've
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done a lot of work there. >> So, what's your what's your life expectancy now?
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I don't know. That's up to me to decide, isn't it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, physically, on a physical
00:04:41
level, I see myself physically like a 50-year-old, but mentally, I feel like an 18-year-old,
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>> you know, I feel great. I've got a young girl, and she just keeps me alive. You
00:04:49
know, she brings that inner child out of me. >> So, on that aspect, I I I get to choose
00:04:55
when I'm going to die. >> I mean, theoretically, not reality. So, I see myself living as long as I can.
00:05:03
But are you in are you in constant sort of pain or discomfort? >> Yeah, discomfort is the word. I have a
00:05:08
lot of pain in the evening, especially when my body locks up and if I exert myself too much, but even if I don't
00:05:14
exert myself too much, my body can just turn on me. So, I start to really lock up. So, it's like wearing a wet suit
00:05:20
sometimes while there's some needles kind of pushing through. It's it's yeah,
00:05:23
it is dehabilitating. However, I've got the mental aptitude to kind of override
00:05:28
it now. Slow down my respiratory rate. Think more rationally. I'm okay. got a
00:05:32
perspective of gratitude of where I've been. It's not as bad as this. Keep
00:05:35
going forward. You've got so much in your life. It's okay. Yeah. >> It's a rough hand though. I
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>> It is a rough hand. >> Like I I mean um Yeah. It'd be understandable if you had
00:05:47
like moments or periods of self-pity. >> Yeah. Which I have had. Which I have.
00:05:51
>> And you still do or no? >> No, not anymore. No. I mean, I read a book, great book, and it's changed my
00:05:57
life. than actually doing a diploma in his psychological methods called logotherapy meaning therapy through
00:06:02
Victor Frankle Institute. So I read Victor Frankle's book man's search for
00:06:05
meaning and that just changed my whole perspective and it wasn't about a freedom from this disease. It was a
00:06:10
freedom to where could I go I had the freedom to choose where I wanted to go and I have the freedom to choose my
00:06:15
attitude. So my attitudinal change has has um changed me significantly. That's
00:06:21
the that's the freedom that I do have to choose my attitude in any given situation. Just like Victor Frankle when
00:06:26
he spent three years in four different um prisoner of war camps through the Holocaust. You know, he had an amazing
00:06:32
positive attitude and I get to choose that. So when the pain and discomfort comes, I can slow myself down and
00:06:37
understand that I do have choice of my attitude and look at what I do have in front of me. I have more in my life than
00:06:43
I could ever fathom on when I've been told that I could have died multiple times and here I am alive talking to a
00:06:50
good friend Dom Harvey on his podcast up in Oakuckland. How cool is that, man? >> You know, and that outweighs the pain
00:06:55
and discomfort I carry. >> That book, by the way, Man's Search for Meaning, one of my favorite books of all
00:07:00
time. I I can't tell you how many times I've I've purchased a copy of it because
00:07:04
it's uh you loan it to someone and then you know you're never going to get it
00:07:07
back. I reckon I've probably purchased it maybe a dozen times, 15 times. Um and
00:07:11
so many guests on the podcast have referenced that book as well. For anyone that um is perhaps just hearing about it
00:07:18
for the first time, Victor Frankle's Man Search for Meaning like what's the
00:07:21
synopsis? How would you describe it? >> Oh, it's finding basically meaning in
00:07:24
the moment. Um we have a search for meaning. So Victor Frankle was he had the third pillar of V& psychology. So
00:07:32
there was Sigman Freud who were had he come up with the idea of will to pleasure and Aldis Adler Albert Adler he
00:07:38
had the will to power. So humans were driven by pleasure and humans were driven by power. But Africa Frankle
00:07:44
said, "No, humans have an innate drive for meaning. We need to find meaning in
00:07:48
our life and meaning can be different from what you think and what I think. But we have moments of meaning all
00:07:52
around us." And that's what Victor Frankle was very good. And he proved his
00:07:55
theory within the Holocaust. Seeing people who had a meaning and a purpose within that, helping others, reaching
00:08:01
out, helping other people, finding meaning, a bit like what you do. I mean, here's a good example. You go down and
00:08:07
get your coffee at New World, but you're not going down there to get a coffee.
00:08:10
You connect with an individual down there who you give a fright, and now you become a friend. See, there's meaning
00:08:15
there. See, that's that's meaning of the moment. You're not just going to get a
00:08:18
coffee, but you're connecting with an individual. >> Yeah, that's very charitable of you. I
00:08:21
like to think I'm just keeping myself amused. >> For sure. But it's a connection. You've
00:08:26
made a new connection. And that's what that's what he think that's what Victor
00:08:29
Frankle says that we have an innate will to search for meaning within our life. And that could be small moments of
00:08:34
meaning or big moments of meaning. M >> when did you first get introduced to
00:08:39
that book? >> Uh from my first diagnosis. I was talking to my counselor um when I was
00:08:43
getting psychological help. He was really helped me and he recommended that book and I and I read it and it just
00:08:48
transformed my life. >> Yeah. And now what you're doing a diploma about it now?
00:08:51
>> Yeah. So I'm halfway through a diploma in the Victor Frankle Institute. I have
00:08:54
a clinical psychologist going through my papers the self-re reflective papers plus educational papers. I'm learning a
00:09:01
lot. So yeah, >> you you ran 10 km last year. Yeah. Um why why why are you laughing? Just
00:09:10
>> just just the whole Yeah. The whole event Harry spied and Harry took a lot
00:09:14
out of me. >> Right. Yeah. Cuz you um we'll get into the Josh Kman back story, but um like
00:09:18
10k for you pre 2011 was like no big deal. Like you probably wouldn't even bother lacing up for less than 10 km.
00:09:26
>> Yeah. I was about a 31 32 minute K 10k runner. I wasn't a 10k runner per se. I
00:09:30
was a track runner. Yeah. But yeah, middle distance 32s. >> Yeah. Um, yeah. So, how how is that now?
00:09:37
Like for you to get to the point where you can run 10 km. >> Yeah. Um, it's hard to describe how grateful I am
00:09:44
to run again when you've been told that you possibly couldn't. >> So, I achieved that. However, I did push
00:09:48
it a bit too much. Um, running 10k as I said about my body, how it locks up. You
00:09:52
know, I was like this running orgasm towards the end. I was just trying to hold myself together. But, I had a great
00:09:58
crew around me. I had some real good support and we were doing it for for a phenomenal cause called Ranoi House, a
00:10:02
place that I spent um a lot of time at. It helped me out through a through a very difficult time. We can talk about
00:10:07
that later. But um there was real meaning behind it why I was doing it. So the pain kind of um diminished when I
00:10:15
when I had the meaning associated to what I was doing. But yeah, it did take a lot out of me.
00:10:19
>> So So 10K for you now would be like say >> an ultram. >> Yeah. Okay. For someone else
00:10:25
>> 100%. Yeah. and and Rano House who you ran the 10K for. Is is that you spent a
00:10:30
long long time there like 400 days or something? >> Yeah. Three no 372 nights. Yeah.
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>> And is is that where where you you considered and almost took your own life.
00:10:40
>> Yeah, that was the place. So Rani House, I mean it provides accommodation. It's
00:10:43
the largest um provider for accommodation for patients and families that need long-term care. Um most of
00:10:49
those people are needing lifetime treat lifesaving treatment. Um, I stayed 372 nights there. And the cool thing about
00:10:57
Ranoi House, Ranoi House stands for big warm house. It's for everybody. So, it's
00:11:01
not specifically for cancer patients or bone marrow transplant patients like myself. It's for everyone. If you had a
00:11:07
car crash, if you're on diialysis, um, if you're having a premature birth, um,
00:11:11
or, you know, you're spending time in ICU, I meet a whole host of people. And
00:11:15
meeting those people with different um diagnosis and different different um medical
00:11:23
issues really changed my perspective as well because it wasn't just about me. So
00:11:28
this is a great place for community and connection house. It's got 61 apartments, the largest provider in
00:11:34
South Island for patients and families. An amazing place. It it really is a big warm house.
00:11:40
>> Oh, thank you for giving them the flowers they deserve. >> Oh, they deserve so much. No one's got a
00:11:44
bad word to say it. I mean, your health your health is impeded, but also too, your finances are impeded as well. And
00:11:49
you can stay there for free. They have um monthly cook cooking. People come in and cook for you. There's always food in
00:11:54
the fridge. It's an amazing place and it's a real family orientated um organization. Ranoi House.
00:12:00
>> Does it get some government funding or is it mainly just donations from
00:12:04
>> mainly donations? It's a charitable trust. So, the charitable trust is
00:12:07
called the bone marrow cancer trust. That trust was established in 1990. They established the first bone marrow unit
00:12:12
for transplant patients like myself in 1991 and then and that was the bone marrow unit. Then they created Ranoi
00:12:19
House cuz they need showed that people needed long-term care. >> So they um created Ranoi House got 26
00:12:27
more apartments and now they got 61 apartments at Big Ranoi. So it's pretty awesome that there's got this housing
00:12:33
complex and it's like a motel d. It's like you're walking into a fivestar
00:12:36
motel. It's incredible. And you get to connect with individuals and that's the
00:12:39
special thing about it because we know when families stay together, people heal faster.
00:12:44
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You love connecting with people, eh? Like whenever whenever we uh catch
00:12:48
up now, like it's never it's never just a surface level conversation. It's never
00:12:52
just small talk about about the Warriors or what. Not that there's anything wrong
00:12:56
with that, but yeah, you like to go deep very quickly with people. >> Yeah, I do. I like I like to see who
00:13:01
they are, what makes them tick. Um that gives me true meaning. M >> I mean even in my keynotes, you know, I
00:13:07
do my talk, but it's the ability to connect with individuals. I'm talking
00:13:10
for 45 minutes to an hour, but then I listen, you know, and I've managed to connect with some amazing individuals
00:13:15
after these talks. >> You weren't like that before 2011, eh? >> No, no. I was means to myself,
00:13:21
>> you know, head down, keep working, don't talk, get it done. Get it done.
00:13:25
>> Yeah. Get it done. >> Get it done. >> Yeah. What would that Josh um
00:13:29
pre-illness think of Josh now? I think he'd be very proud of himself to see the
00:13:32
change in growth that that's acquired through his own um through his own tragedies.
00:13:37
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's incredible. >> Oh, you so you mentioned um bone marrow
00:13:41
transplant which makes you um eligible for a thing called the transplant games. So you're going to Germany later this
00:13:47
year to represent NZ. >> I am. Yeah. So there's a team of 12 that are going to Germany in Dston. Um it's
00:13:56
it's amazing because that you know 14 years ago Dom I got told well I thought
00:14:01
my dream was dead and I thought I was dying being diagnosed with leukemia. One of the fastest 800 meter runners in New
00:14:07
Zealand. My dream was to represent New Zealand. That was my dream since a kid to don the silver fan. I love New
00:14:12
Zealand. I'm just so I just love it. >> And to see that dream taken away it just
00:14:17
it it messed with me psychologically. I thought all the doors were closed. My dream was dead. I'm dying. What's the
00:14:22
meaning of my life? What's the purpose? It's gone. So, I've worked very hard to
00:14:26
get myself back on my feet running 10K, seeing my limits, finding my limits. I've found my limits and now this
00:14:31
opportunity is arisen called the World Transplant Games. It's really really hard to qualify for. Dom,
00:14:38
>> you have to have a transplant, mate. >> Yeah. So, that that's any transplant
00:14:42
that may be heart, that may be liver, that may be kidney, that may be a pancreas, that may be lungs. And for me,
00:14:46
it's a bone marrow in my immune system. So, I've qualified and yes, the dreams
00:14:50
come back alive um to run in Germany in Dresden, run the 800 m for New Zealand. Um and the cool thing about it, Dom,
00:14:58
this is the real special thing about it is that we're in Dresden in Germany,
00:15:04
that's where my stem cells came from. So, it's this full circle moment just
00:15:08
closing up. So 14 years later where my donor donated his stem cells where that city saved my life. This person um you
00:15:17
know donated selflessly donated I get to go there compete and I think that's the
00:15:25
ultimate thank you to everybody that's helped me in my life. The ultimate thank
00:15:28
you to say hey your dream wasn't dead. You're not dying. You're alive. You're
00:15:33
here. You still have opportunities. And now I have this straight, man. And it's
00:15:38
it's so special, man. Because it's a thank you to the medical staff that have
00:15:42
helped me. It's, >> you know, I've been through a lot to my wife and daughter and and my
00:15:48
family and my friends, man. >> You um >> Yeah, I I sort of I forgot the specifics
00:15:57
of um our first podcast from 3 years ago, but I relisted to it yesterday to jog my memory. And um that was a very
00:16:03
emotional podcast as well. I think um both you and I cried a few times in it. Um and something that I I observed
00:16:11
listening to it again. Every time you get emotional, it's like um gratitude tears.
00:16:16
>> Yeah, it is. >> There's never any like self-pity tears or anything. You just get emotional when
00:16:20
you're talking about your mom or your wife or just other other people that have done like nice things for you.
00:16:26
>> You you nailed it. And it becomes a prediction error, you know, like here I
00:16:30
am living this incredible life that I didn't think I'd ever have wanting to
00:16:34
take my life and I've got life back and the memories come back and you and it
00:16:38
just flashes through like a deck of cards like all these people that have come in and helped you and given you
00:16:44
words of encouragement, held your hand, you know, put your arm around you and it
00:16:48
and it's really overwhelmed and and >> maybe I'm on this podcast and thank you
00:16:53
sometimes doesn't do it justice. the word thank you. You know, I've got a
00:16:57
saying, you know, let us love not in word and speech but in truth and action. So, I'm trying to let my truth and
00:17:03
actions say thank you to the people. >> Hence, this transplant games is so
00:17:07
meaningful to me. And I think that's the ultimate thank you to say thank you to
00:17:10
my donor. Thank you to that medical staff and all the people that have helped me.
00:17:13
>> It it is I do get emotional because that's what life's about is connection.
00:17:17
That's the foundation of health. That's what I believe. >> Yeah. Ju just for a bit of perspective.
00:17:21
So, um, say 2010 when you're at the peak of your athletic powers. One of the best
00:17:28
if not the best if not one of the best. >> No, no, no, no. I was not the best. I
00:17:32
was working my way. >> Oh, you were right up there though. 800 meter specialist. One of And your your
00:17:36
1500 meter time was >> Yeah. >> 350. >> Yeah. 350. I was a 150 800 meter runner.
00:17:42
I had two silver senior men's um national silver men's in in the 800 m. 20 years old and 22 years old. M
00:17:50
>> um but for me coming from Greymouth I was quite an unknown athlete. I was
00:17:55
known in Canterbury but I hadn't done much racing around the country. I made a
00:17:58
move to Christ Church and my training got better. You know I got myself surrounded by good people. I was in a
00:18:03
good environment and this is where I knew holy moly my dream might come to fruition. You know I was going I was
00:18:09
training really well hitting the times. I ran a sub 150 time trial and I was like holy smokes. I ran I got the number
00:18:16
one ranking in New Zealand for only for only for a few weeks but I was so proud I was like this is my year you know
00:18:21
where I'm going to break through. >> Um but yeah it was shortlived. >> It was shortlived but yeah I was a good
00:18:26
runner but I wasn't a great runner. I wasn't like a Sam Ruth or or a Sam
00:18:30
Tanner who are just phenomenal. I wasn't in that level. Yeah, Sam Sam Ruth, by
00:18:34
the way, just to time stamp this conversation, um the week that we're recording this, he just um set the world
00:18:39
record for being um the the youngest >> youngest boy >> on the planet to run a sub4minute mile,
00:18:46
like 3 minutes 58, and he's >> um 15 closer to 16 than 15, but still 15
00:18:52
years old. It's bonkers. >> It's incredible the crazy >> But the support, you know, I mean, it
00:18:57
might be a good guest to get on. Craig Kirkwood, the coach, you know, he helps out Hayden Wild, Sam Tanner, Sam Ruth.
00:19:02
He's got a good group going. Yeah. You know, New Zealand athletics is really
00:19:05
alive and running. Excuse the pun. >> Yeah. So, yes. So, so 2010 your your 800
00:19:11
meter time was a minute 50, which is lightning quick. Um, like what would you do for 800 meters at the Transplant
00:19:16
Games? >> Um, probably about maybe four, just over four minutes maybe. Yeah. I ran a mile
00:19:22
here. I ran a mile the other day. It was 8 minutes 41 seconds. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:28
>> So, um, your morning routine now, do do you have like a specific morning
00:19:32
routine? >> Yep, I do. >> What do you obviously out out of town at the moment? Um, you're staying in
00:19:36
Oakuckland overnight, so it's probably out. But what do you generally do Monday
00:19:39
to Friday? >> Yeah, Monday to Friday it's cold exposure. I've got an outside shower, I
00:19:43
got an ice bath, so I'll titrate between a cold shower or an ice bath depending
00:19:46
on how I'm feeling. >> Um, and then I'm on the got my feet on the ground,
00:19:51
>> do some breathing, some nice slow breathing, um, nasal breathing. sit there for a bit, just go through my
00:19:56
life, you know, where have I been? >> Moment of gratitude. I do some stretching and some some more breathing
00:20:01
exercises. >> Yeah. >> Every damn day. >> Every damn day. That's that's been my
00:20:05
routine. Even today was in Vic Park. I went for a bit of a walk with my bare feet, doing some breathing, did some
00:20:10
stretching, had a cold shower, not an ice bath, but yeah, most of the days. >> And the and the um the gratitude
00:20:16
practice, which has been such a huge like cornerstone of your life. Um >> yeah, what is it? Is it like the same
00:20:21
stuff every day or do you try and do different stuff? >> Yeah, to be fair, it's it's more so of a
00:20:26
prayer of thank you of just where I am in my life right now and and it could be short. Um, but it's not a practice
00:20:31
gratitude. I mean, I live live gratitude. I really do every day, but it's just a reflection of here I am. You
00:20:37
know, I'm I'm in a lot of discomfort in the morning. So, I'm just trying to
00:20:41
override that discomfort with a with a with a prayer of thanks. I'm still here.
00:20:44
I'm still alive. I've still got opportunities. Let the day present itself. That kind of thing.
00:20:48
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm I'm trying to get better at that. E. Yeah. Cuz it's um it's it's so
00:20:54
important. But even um >> you know, sometimes I find, you know, you you just want you're wanting more
00:21:00
and you're not thankful for what you already have when you already have a lot.
00:21:03
>> Um it's like a like a real weird thing, but I'm just trying to sort of center
00:21:06
myself with that. >> Yeah. I mean, it's great that you want more and want to be better, for sure.
00:21:10
But sometimes it's nice to just reflect and stand still and like look how far
00:21:13
I've come. you know, from a hotel room to Dom Harvey podcast in your studio.
00:21:17
It's nice to reflect on that and just say, "Hey, you know, even though I want
00:21:20
to get there in the future, just acknowledge where I am right now. That's all it is."
00:21:24
>> Oh. Um, yeah. Some other stuff that's happened since um we last connected for
00:21:28
a podcast in that hotel room. Um, at at the time, your your wife was 8 months pregnant. You now a dad.
00:21:34
>> Yeah. >> How old's your daughter now? >> She's two and a half.
00:21:37
>> Yeah. That's awesome. And and you were on um you're on TV. I think it was like
00:21:41
seven sharp or the project for uh the New Zealand record for the longest ice bath.
00:21:46
>> Yeah, that was a awesome event. It really was. Yeah. Um had my family there, the daughter, everyone, some
00:21:52
really good mates. We did a fundraiser for Randi House, which we just spoke about. It was the unofficial New Zealand
00:21:58
record for an ice bar. It was a hyperbol statement to get media attention, which
00:22:00
it did. And shout out to the New Zealand public, man. They just got behind us. you know, we managed to raise just over
00:22:06
$100,000 for Run the Wei House, a home away from home for many patients who need long-term care. Just incredible.
00:22:13
So, yeah, had my wife there. My wife and friend don't get a lot of lot of credos
00:22:17
here. So, they were next to me in an ice bath. Um, Hamish and and my wife Cibble.
00:22:21
They did 20 minutes. It was the coldest day in Christ Church, I think, for 14 years in a March calendar year. Um, it
00:22:27
was 4° outside. The ice bath was 0.8. My wife, she shot upstairs, was breastfeeding my um beautiful daughter
00:22:34
an ice a milky ice shake and um yeah, amazing amazing event. Yeah. So, thank you for the New Zealand public for
00:22:41
getting on board and helping out run that we house. >> How long were you in the ice for?
00:22:44
>> I was in there for 21 minutes. >> Yeah, it's like a frozen little white
00:22:48
bait in there, mate. >> Yeah. Damn. >> Y speaking of that, well, that's how
00:22:51
your your daughter was created. Like, she was she was she spent the first 11 years of her sort of life as a frozen
00:22:58
sperm. Yeah, she did. She was on ice for a very long time. She's the ice queen,
00:23:02
mate. >> That's funny. Yeah. >> Um Okay. All right. We'll go all the way
00:23:07
back to the the very beginning. So, paint a picture of um Josh Comman like pre- illness. Who was he? Typical
00:23:13
coaster. >> Yeah. Typical coaster. >> Staunchch. Hard. >> Very Yeah, staunch. I had a a good
00:23:18
contrast between two parents. My dad was a hardworking man. He come from a from a
00:23:22
difficult place. Had a very hard childhood. Um and my mom was just this loving, caring soul. So it was kind of
00:23:28
this hard determination, work hard and this kind of care for other people. So I had that from my mom and dad. Um
00:23:33
>> but your mom was definitely more the nurturer. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean my dad
00:23:38
didn't have a very good parenting manual. Spent spent many years in an orphanage. My grandfather came out from
00:23:43
Holland post Nazi um regime occupied in Holland come out you know he had a gun pointed towards his head set up a farm
00:23:51
in watera had five kids. His wife passed away at 32. sent his kids to an orphanage where a lot of things
00:23:57
occurred. You know, my dad didn't have the best parenting manual, but what he
00:24:00
did have, what he wanted to give me was opportunities that he never had. So, he worked hard. So, I never really saw my
00:24:05
dad, >> you know, and he'd love to hear this, too, cuz he cuz he thought he got
00:24:09
portrayed as the [ __ ] last time in the podcast, but he's a great guy >> on this podcast.
00:24:14
>> Oh, did he? >> No, he's a great guy, but he didn't have the best parenting manual. And he would
00:24:17
admit that he wasn't the best father, but he was trying to give me opportunities that I didn't see. But me
00:24:22
being a kid, I didn't see that. I didn't see that. You just want your dad's
00:24:25
attention. But he was working. Now I now we connected through my own through my diagnosis and I got to understand his
00:24:31
past. >> So >> yeah. And and in in some ways I suppose him just working his ass off was his way
00:24:36
of showing love. Like putting food on the table for the family. >> Absolutely. And I credit the man so much
00:24:41
from where he's been to what where he's come, what he's developed. And marrying
00:24:46
my mom, you know, was the best thing that he did. >> Yeah. also from like a generational
00:24:51
perspective. Um you know that that vulnerability piece was never there with that sort of that sort of gener was he
00:24:57
able to tell you that he loves you or no not >> was it like show you love with actions
00:25:02
rather than actually saying the words? No, he did. He did. Yeah. Yeah, he did. But then it's kind of contrasting as a
00:25:07
kid when you get a >> disciplined in a in a physical way. So, and it's like, did you mean that
00:25:13
>> as a kid? You don't understand that, but that's just what he knew. That's totally
00:25:16
fine, >> you know, and we laugh about stuff, man. He's a great He's He's great. And, you
00:25:20
know, to be fair, he wants me to make this comment, too. He was with my sister in Brisbane, and his his um little
00:25:26
granddaughter, my niece, Ivy, looked up at him and said, "Oh, I just want to be
00:25:29
like you, granddad. I love you." And dad's like full so proud. today. Yeah.
00:25:34
Love your dad. >> How um with you taking the lead with um you know being open and vulnerable and
00:25:40
having these um >> No, Dad took the lead on that. >> Oh, did he? >> Yeah, man. Yeah. Cuz I closed the door,
00:25:44
didn't want to talk, but he come into the room >> and he said, you know, he said a quote
00:25:48
that I use actually. He goes, "You're not using all your strength unless you
00:25:51
ask for help." And he's crying and that's and he just showed himself and I
00:25:55
was like, "Holy shit." >> Is that the first time you saw him cry?
00:25:57
>> First time I really saw him cry. Yeah. With real empathy and love. And it's
00:26:02
like, man. And and then we just started communicating. Yeah. >> Yeah. It was beautiful.
00:26:07
>> Oh, that's cool. >> That's Yeah. I mean, yeah, I can tell
00:26:10
the way you talk about him with love and you know, I think every every generation
00:26:14
does the best they can with the resources they have. >> I think so. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, there's a small minority.
00:26:19
Sure. But, but dad was amazing. He really was. From where he was, from where he came from and what he's got
00:26:24
now. >> Loved the man. >> Yeah. >> So, you you were quite a renegade, eh?
00:26:29
Uh like you were like like a bad always nude. No, arrested for indecent exposure
00:26:36
twice. >> Yeah, I got I got arrested a couple of times. I mean that's the beauty of
00:26:40
living in a small town community. They know who you are. So >> they could recognize you by your
00:26:44
testicles. >> No, not now, mate. Not now. Um no, I suppose I mean I didn't drink too much, but when
00:26:52
I did drink, I was all in and I just turned into a completely different person. It was the guy, oh JK will do
00:26:56
that. JK will do that. And that's what I did, you know. I'd take my clothes off,
00:27:00
run around, you know, have a laugh. But yeah, I wasn't a renegade or a bad person. I just like to laugh and have a
00:27:05
good time. >> Just a lar. >> A lar. Yeah. >> Um, yeah. But you obviously were quite
00:27:10
disciplined as well. Like you don't get to run, you know, like a one one minute
00:27:14
50 800 meter without some sort of like serious training and discipline. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was very determined,
00:27:19
very focused on my goals. I mean, um, growing up, I knew I had a talent in running and I loved it. It was like a
00:27:26
moving meditation for me. I just I just love running and coming from a hardworking background from the coast, I
00:27:30
wanted to be the hardest of the hardest workers, if that makes sense, >> you know. Um so I wanted to prove myself
00:27:36
on that aspect. >> So I was very determined. Then my mom got me this book called um The Winner's
00:27:40
Bible by Kerry Spackman. Really cool book at the age of 19 and I started visualization processes, all these kind
00:27:46
of mental techniques to help me get better and it really helped me. So I had kind of that drive but also I was
00:27:53
looking for other methods to help me um achieve my goals. Yeah. So I was very determined, very focused for sure. Yeah.
00:28:00
>> Yeah. What was your what was your big goal? Like what did you see yourself
00:28:03
doing? Commonwealth Games, Olympics potentially. >> Yeah. First first goal was to just join
00:28:07
the Silver Fern, win a national title, then hopefully, you know, represent New Zealand, maybe Comwalth Games, and then
00:28:13
maybe the Olympics. Who knows? That was the dream. Who knows? But that was the dream as a kid growing up.
00:28:18
>> Yeah. What's what's you you follow the steps and where it takes you is sort of
00:28:21
unknown to a degree. What about work? What did you want to do for work? >> Yeah, I always wanted to be a physio.
00:28:26
Yeah, that's what I wanted to be, but dad's like, "No, you're playing up too
00:28:29
much at school. You got to go get go get an apprentichip." I became a line mechanic. I worked on power lines and it
00:28:34
was yeah, the best thing that I did. Worked for a great company called Electronet and Greymouth. Great company.
00:28:38
Um, really looked after me and I got a lot of responsibility. At 20 years old, I was organizing jobs, organizing
00:28:44
helicopters to come in, fly wire. It was a hardworking job, but I I loved it. I really did.
00:28:48
>> Yeah. But um when I was growing up, I did want to be in the medical system.
00:28:52
Wanted to be a physio. Yeah. >> Yeah. How about that? >> Yeah. >> Um
00:28:57
>> and then so 2011 uh you're 23 years old. Um and that's when you start to get
00:29:02
unwell. How does that look? >> Yep. So I had one race for that season, got that number one ranking for a brief
00:29:08
time. Um I just in incredible form, the best form that I've been in. Kind of
00:29:12
stopped drinking, really focused. And then after that race, I was out running in Haggley Park running with a guy
00:29:19
called Andrew Davidson. Sprained my ankle, just wouldn't heal. Wouldn't heal. So New Zealand champs were at the
00:29:25
end of March. Couldn't compete. Ankle wasn't healing. My body was kind of
00:29:29
deteriorating a bit. Corquakes happened. So I moved back home to Greymouth for a bit just to recuperate.
00:29:36
Entered a bike race. Collapsed halfway through the race. I fell off my bike. I was just depleted. But you know, that
00:29:42
determination kicked in. finished the race and I was just in bedridden for about a week. Night sweats,
00:29:48
hallucinations, and I knew something wasn't right. Went to the doctors, they
00:29:52
just gave me antibiotics, no blood tests. My eye swelled up. I had this leukemic eye. My eye swelled up. I
00:29:57
collapsed at the sink. My brother picked me up, got my um auntie round. My mom took me up to hospital and I knew
00:30:04
something something wasn't right. Yeah. And that's when I the next day I was
00:30:08
admitted that night. had some um fluids, some more antibiotics. They took bloods
00:30:14
that night and then the next day my world just turned upside down. >> Yeah. Turned upside down and and uh was
00:30:21
turned upside down for how many years? >> I had I was in and out of hospital for
00:30:25
about 10 years. Just over 10 years. >> Yeah. >> It's [ __ ] eh. It's [ __ ] Like entire
00:30:33
20s. Really? >> Yep. >> 23 to 33. >> Yep. It was. Yeah. Y >> um Yeah. your your attitude is so
00:30:40
there's a quote that I heard from you. I've got a life I couldn't even fathom
00:30:43
when I was 23. As you can see, I've been pretty lucky. >> Yeah. Been very blessed. I'll change
00:30:48
that luck to blessed. I have. Yeah. With the outcome and and what I've got and
00:30:52
the people in my life and what I've seen and the connections that I've made and I
00:30:55
don't think I would have had those authentic connections as we spoke about before through my own hardships and
00:30:59
trials and tribulations. >> Yeah. >> Can anyone develop that sort of glass
00:31:04
half full attitude? >> 100% everyone can. >> Yeah. 100%. Everyone can think
00:31:09
positively. Everyone's got the freedom to choose. Like Victor Victor Frankle
00:31:12
said, even in a holoccast, he had the freedom to choose his attitude and positive mindset and he did. Everybody
00:31:17
has that ability. It's just a choice. >> Yeah. >> How vivid for you is the moment when you
00:31:23
um got told you have leukemia? >> Yeah. The whole 10 years is pretty vivid, Dom, I never want to lose it to
00:31:29
be fair. I don't. That's my perspective. >> Is it hard for you to revisit though?
00:31:32
>> It has been, but I've done a lot of work on that. I mean, you know, we we had our
00:31:36
first conversation together. I just broke down in tears. So, um, for me, it's more acceptance around it that I'm
00:31:41
okay, safe. Um, things are things are good. So, it's just understanding that
00:31:45
emotion a bit better. >> Um, doing this diploma, having this sock, um, and Marine Neil in Boise,
00:31:51
Idaho helping me out. It's been fantastic. >> So, yeah. I mean, I remember that day
00:31:57
vividly. It was a torrential day on the West Coast, mate. She was pissing down. >> That's a shock. A mate, we've had the
00:32:04
best summer this year in New Zealand. Doesn't rain that much on the coast team. No, but it was. And then my I was
00:32:11
in hospital, you know, I was about to go overseas with some friends for a bit of
00:32:15
an adventure. And I rang up my mates said, "I'm probably not going. I'm in
00:32:19
hospital." And then the next day, my family come in with this concerned look
00:32:22
on their face. And I was like, "What? What's going on?" My dad, my mom, my
00:32:26
brother, my sister, and then my uncle. And then the doctor was there. And he said, "Oh, you're not going
00:32:33
overseas. You're going to Christ Church." I was like, "Oh, okay. That's
00:32:36
strange." He's like, "You got leukemia." And I had no idea what leukemia was. I
00:32:40
mean, even the word sounds confusing, you know? >> And I had no idea. But what I did see
00:32:45
was my mom just break down in tears. And that just tore me apart. I'm like, "What
00:32:50
the heck's happening?" I had no idea. Just seeing my mom cry. Just broke me.
00:32:55
Like, am I killing my mom? But I was the one that was dying. And I had no idea what treatment looked like. So I got
00:33:00
sent to Christ Church to the bone marrow unit to receive about 7 to 8 months worth of chemotherapy. And for me being
00:33:07
that fitfast athlete when I saw people with cancer I thought that was a death sentence. I had really no education
00:33:13
around cancer that a lot of people do survive and thrive in life. But I thought cancer death sentence mom crying
00:33:21
far out what's happening. So I just shut the door. That strong determined Josh
00:33:25
I'm going to start this race. I'll finish myself. Get it done. What were your emotions like in the
00:33:30
first few days? >> Uh, just confusion, Dom. There was no real tears. I didn't cry for for a while
00:33:36
>> um until I was in Christ Church in the bone marrow unit after my first round of
00:33:39
chemotherapy. The hardest part about that was being locked up in isolation for a month at a time. Um, not being out
00:33:45
in nature, not being able to run. I saw my mates running past cuz you have a big
00:33:48
window looking out to Higgley Park and you can see your mates run past and just missing out on that. And then seeing
00:33:53
myself in the mirror, man, you know, my body had just completely stripped itself
00:33:57
away. And that just hit me hard. Like, who the [ __ ] am I? You know, I can't run. I'm so
00:34:03
tired. I'm fatigued. I'm spewing up. I'm [ __ ] myself. These nurses are wiping
00:34:06
my bum. You know, I've never experienced that pain before. And then the mental
00:34:10
pain stepped in, >> you know, and it was so difficult. It It was extremely difficult to try and
00:34:16
navigate that time by myself. And as my dad's saying, you're not using all your
00:34:21
strength unless you're asking for help. And I needed to ask for help, but I didn't know how.
00:34:27
I didn't know how. >> How How did you reach that point? Was Was it just out of necessity? It's like,
00:34:36
I've got to ask for help or >> Yeah. I mean, I was in a complete desperate situation. So, had that
00:34:42
diagnosis? >> Cuz I'm guessing there's probably like a lot of people listening to this or
00:34:45
watching this that have um walls up, maybe not for health reasons like you did, but and they're just not sure how
00:34:50
to open up, >> how to take that first step. >> Yeah. I mean, when you're when you're
00:34:54
feeling conflicted or confused or confined, that's the moment to just connect with somebody. And if someone
00:35:01
can connect, they don't have to have answers, but just listen to you talk. It's very cathartic. And then if it's
00:35:06
too much, yes, we've got great psychological help in New Zealand. We've got great organizations, great
00:35:11
counselors that can reach out and maybe apply some tools to help you through that process. So even just connecting
00:35:17
with a friend that you trust, someone to talk to to share the load, you know, to
00:35:21
just share the load, talk about it, maybe you can think about it a bit more rationally, but if you're feeling
00:35:26
confused and conflicted, reach out, have a chat to somebody, anyone. >> Who did you first open up to?
00:35:33
>> The nurses were great, but I wouldn't fully open up. The nurses were
00:35:36
fantastic. We've got some amazing medical staff in New Zealand, Tom. We really do. The more the nurses,
00:35:41
>> if you can't open up to a lady that's been wiping your ass, who can you open
00:35:44
up to? I know, man. Michaela Jameson, thank you. >> Someone give Michaela Jameson a pay
00:35:52
rise. >> Yeah. Yeah. She's Yeah. Not just here, but a whole host of people.
00:35:58
>> So, I had two to three months of chemo. My body's stripped away. I'm looking at
00:36:01
myself. Who am I? What the [ __ ] going on? You know, so confused. Not talking to anybody. I mean, talking little bits
00:36:07
and pieces, but not telling them the full picture. >> Yeah. Just put putting on a a mask.
00:36:11
>> Putting on a mask for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Putting on a brave face. And then it
00:36:14
just got too much, Dom. It got too much. I struggled to go up the stairs. I'd
00:36:17
always try and walk to try and keep my body moving when I was at Randoi House, but I was just too much. And seeing my
00:36:23
friends come in and go about their life. Um, just hit me. And I real I had no perspective at that time. I didn't no
00:36:30
tools. And then I thought, [ __ ] my mind's out of control. My body's out of
00:36:34
control. What can control I do? What control can I take? And that was to take my life. I thought about taking my life.
00:36:40
Like really considering taking my life. So, I walked to the balcony and I was there and I was like, "This is it." You
00:36:47
know, everything's had to get you don't know what to do. And I stepped up and I
00:36:50
felt the wind hit the side of my face, the right hand. I I remember it vividly and I turned around and I saw my mom's
00:36:57
cup of tea there and just hit me hard. >> Hit me hard. I couldn't put the pain I
00:37:01
was feeling on my mom. I couldn't put that on her. You know, imagine her life
00:37:05
without me. Couldn't do that. So, that was rock bottom. I stepped away and I
00:37:11
still remember it. Dom, I I had my fingernails pierce through my bald little head just screaming, "What the
00:37:16
[ __ ] going on, man? You got to do something." The cool thing is in New Zealand, we have amazing charities in
00:37:22
the cancer realm that reach out and look for help, but I always pushed it back. So, canteen, there's a lady called
00:37:27
Sarah. She would come in, you know, do you need any help? And I'd always say,
00:37:30
"No, no, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good." So, I made the phone call to her. I
00:37:33
said, "Listen, I am no good. I need help." And she um hooked me up with the
00:37:37
counselor. Yeah. So that was the first time that I really reached out for help, but it had to get that far,
00:37:42
unfortunately. >> When did you tell your mom about that? >> I think she always knew what was going
00:37:51
on. She always knows. Moms have this intuition and she'd always turn up. Mom's always there. Um, and that's a
00:37:58
blessing to my mom that she was she seen so much, Tom. >> Um, she always knew, but she probably
00:38:03
didn't know how to act upon that cuz if she suggested, I would said, "No, no, I
00:38:06
don't want that." For me being that stubborn, determined person, I probably
00:38:10
had to get that point to reach out for that for that level of help. >> Yeah.
00:38:13
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But anyone who has that stubborn masculine attitude that I don't need
00:38:20
help and you're feeling that way, just make a conversation with someone. >> Just make that first step.
00:38:26
>> They don't have to have the answer. If they're a great friend, they'll listen
00:38:29
to you and just talk. Just get it off your shoulders. >> Yeah. >> Thanks, mate. That's really powerful
00:38:35
stuff. If if you knew then if if someone said to you because this is in the this is
00:38:41
like round one of leukemia, right? This is what we're talking about now. >> That's round one. Yeah.
00:38:46
>> This is like just the chapter one of the the whole 10y year misadventure. If if
00:38:52
if you knew then what you were in for like over the next decade, do you you think you would have jumped?
00:38:58
>> No. No. No. I wouldn't have jumped. >> No, I would have. I'm I would have came
00:39:05
back, you know. I could not, as I said before, I couldn't put the pain of what
00:39:09
I was feeling on my family. Imagine then living with the notion that I took my life that there could have been an
00:39:15
opportunity for me to heal and get better. And as I said, it did. >> Like my life transformed dramatically
00:39:22
even though I was about to go through harder stuff than that, physically harder. You know, I'm put I would put my
00:39:28
hand up and say, "Take me through that pain to get what I have right now."
00:39:32
Because one when one door closes, so many more open if you're willing to persevere through that pain.
00:39:40
I truly truly believe that >> if one door shuts, more can open. When opportunities are shunted away,
00:39:47
opportunities can open. If you're consistent every day turning out, doing some work, finding new things, I truly
00:39:54
believe that things can transform in a positive manner. Just like Victor Frankle, just like a guy called Luis
00:40:02
Zambberini in World War II when he was in a prisoner of war camp in Japan, things change for the better. If you if
00:40:07
you choose your attitude, if you communicate, if you connect with individuals, things will get better and
00:40:14
new opportunities will beckon for you. >> That's really powerful stuff. It's
00:40:21
really helpful. I mean, it means a lot to me because when I hear people take their life at a young age or an older
00:40:27
age, it's like there's moments of meaning for you out in the future. There's so much. Everyone has something
00:40:32
to offer in this world and it can close down so quickly and the aperture just narrows and narrows and I know that I've
00:40:39
felt that multiple times. But having that courage to continue finding that within yourself, connecting with others.
00:40:46
I call them my ABCs, you know, attitude, belong, connect, and communicate. >> Get that foundation. Get that
00:40:54
foundation. >> Yeah. Cuz it's a permanent solution uh for what is always a temporary problem.
00:41:01
>> Temporary problem, Dom. >> And there's that saying um >> and it was a temporary problem in my
00:41:04
issue. It really was. >> I mean, as we spoke before the transplant games, >> what the heck?
00:41:10
>> Yeah. more meaningful than what it would be representing New Zealand at the
00:41:13
Commonwealth Games. Yeah. You know, >> yeah, there's something quite poant
00:41:17
about it, isn't there? >> It is. And and it's turning a tragedy into an absolute triumph.
00:41:22
>> It's showing people that through my actions, things can change for the
00:41:26
better. Even when you're in the worst situation, things can change for the better.
00:41:30
>> Yeah. >> So, so you get through um the the round one of um leukemia. Ding, ding, ding. Is
00:41:38
is that is that when um you get some sort of uh normal life back and you go to Nepal and you do some skydiving?
00:41:45
>> Yes. Yeah. So I had 8 months of treatment very confused but I'm talking
00:41:50
and communicating and I spoke to a lot of people that I trusted good friends not everyone not going out to the world
00:41:55
saying hey this is what happened found a few people and I just used to go out into the surf. I used to surf a little
00:42:00
bit and I just you know pray or meditate just think about life where I've been
00:42:04
through you know at the start of the year I was one of the fastest in New Zealand then one of the sickest wanted
00:42:08
to take my life didn't know what was going on so just you know just reconciling myself trying to find my way
00:42:15
trying to find meaning from that moment and then I got a phone call from a friend called Ben Wallace been talking
00:42:22
about him so good mate um he rings me up he goes hey man do you want to go to Nepal it's been a been a bit of a
00:42:27
childhood dream that we spoke about when growing up. I said, "Mate, you're
00:42:30
kidding. No way. I can't do that. Just been through all all this stuff." And
00:42:34
then um I was out in the surf one day. Sun was on me and I thought, "Don't be
00:42:39
afraid. Don't be afraid. You got to get out there and seize these opportunities." So, I broke down that
00:42:44
fear barrier, rang him up. I said, "Dear man, let's do it." Yeah, let's do it.
00:42:47
>> Well, the um oncologists or medical experts you were dealing with, they they
00:42:51
okay with it? Were you? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I've got a great doctor called
00:42:54
Peter Ganley. He's just like, "Go out and live your life, Josh. >> There was always a high chance of me
00:42:58
relapsing." Was that why? >> Uh >> just the nature of that >> just the nature cuz yeah so you have
00:43:04
chemo but there's maybe leukemic cells that haven't been completely destroyed
00:43:08
by the chemotherapy. So there's always a chance of relapsing and I quite a poor
00:43:12
prognosis. So I had this kind of genetic mutation called a flip 3 inhibitor. Um and that
00:43:19
put me in a poor prognosis. So I had a high chance of relapsing but he basically said go out and live your
00:43:23
life. >> He was great. Yep. >> Yeah. So you were well enough to travel.
00:43:28
Yeah, I was. And that's from the running background. I did recover quite well.
00:43:31
Yeah. Having that higher aerobic and anorobic threshold helped me recover. Yeah.
00:43:36
>> Um, and you you did a treat to base camp. >> Yep. So, I said to my mate, let's do it.
00:43:41
>> How how like how was that in terms of like the altitude and your breathing and
00:43:45
>> Yeah, it was very difficult. I did get sick. I got sick a lot. I mean, I got
00:43:49
the deli belly, you know, the bacteria in my in my stomach, you know. >> Had to wipe your own asses.
00:43:54
>> Yeah. I was asking Ben, "Do you want to come and wipe me?" He wasn't looking at
00:43:57
me, man. No, but he helped me through it. Um, and we got to base camp and it was a real
00:44:03
meaning moment. Me, real meaningful moment just being up there with my mate at base camp with my grey mouse singlet
00:44:08
on, you know, it was great. Then we climbed up to Mount Kalipatar. I think Mount Kalipatar is about 18 and a half
00:44:13
thousand ft. Mount Cook's about 12 and a bit 12,300 ft. And >> oh, did you get nude up there or am I
00:44:19
imagining it? >> No, we were about to, but then we got told that's a big insult because it's a
00:44:24
real sacred site. So, we're like, "No." So, >> who who stopped you? Who told you?
00:44:29
>> H Some of the trickers there. They gave us a tap on the shoulder, a polite tap,
00:44:31
and we're like, "Yeah, fair enough." >> Um, how was it in the Greymouth signal,
00:44:36
though? Is it is it [ __ ] freezing? >> It was cold. Yeah. When we went to Mount
00:44:40
Calabatar, I think that's one of the coldest days I've ever experienced, the
00:44:42
wind and and all the snow around. But it was awesome. We got to watch the sunrise
00:44:46
over Mount Everest, >> wave to sir up there, you know, it was really, really cool. It was just a real
00:44:51
moment of meaning for me. >> Yeah. Extra special, I guess. Um, being in that ne that part of the world being
00:44:56
a Kiwi as well with the connection to Sured. >> They all love they love New Zealand.
00:45:00
Yeah. And the Nepoese people just changed my perspective. I mean, I got into Catmand do and this really
00:45:05
transformed my life as well. Seeing seeing this was my first overseas experience. So, I got into the tuk tuk
00:45:10
and I was driving down the road and then I saw these kids playing in rubbish. Some were naked, some just had their
00:45:15
underwear on. They were playing in rubbish in this puddle and they looked up with looked up at me with these big
00:45:19
beautiful white smiles and just waved. And I was like, "Fuck, man. how good we
00:45:25
how good did you have it? You suffered in the best conditions and these kids had absolutely nothing but yet they were
00:45:30
making the best of their situation, having a great time. And it just shifted my whole perspective that I had I lived
00:45:35
in New Zealand in this great medical system getting adequate treatment, had food, everything like that. I suffered
00:45:41
in good conditions, but these kids were making the best of what they had. >> Just hit me, man. Just changed my
00:45:45
perspective that I visually saw it. >> Yeah. you there's that saying um comparison is
00:45:52
the theft of joy but I I I like to say like you you can compare down and you actually don't have to look that far to
00:45:58
see someone that is a whole lot happier with a whole lot less >> yeah I mean comparison can be the the
00:46:03
words of encouragement it can be I mean if you're comparing yourself to what
00:46:07
don't I have but what don't I have what do I have >> you know what do I have in front of me
00:46:12
and these kids had rubbish in front of them a couple of their mates playing in a puddle and they were making the best
00:46:17
of it you know and I thought my life had been taken way because I've been diagnosed with cancer,
00:46:22
>> you know, I wasn't making the best of my situation. I wasn't making adequate
00:46:25
choices. I wasn't choosing the right attitude. I wasn't connecting. I wasn't
00:46:27
communicating, >> you know. >> Yes. So, you were you well for a while.
00:46:32
Were you feeling well? >> Yeah, I was feeling well. I did recover well during my
00:46:36
>> Did it feel like there was a like a like a shadow looming behind you though that
00:46:39
it was going to come back or >> No, I never had a thought that was coming back. I always I had a positive
00:46:43
mindset that I'm going to go out and embrace life. Just any opportunity that
00:46:46
comes my way, I'm going to take it. what Josh Coleman wanted to do, he was going
00:46:50
to do it. And I had two things that I really wanted to do since I was a kid. And one was go to base camp and the
00:46:55
other was um to become a professional skydiver. >> And you did both? >> I did both.
00:47:02
>> Yeah. How many jumps? >> I ended up doing about 210, I think. >> Did you do a nude one?
00:47:08
>> No. No, >> I didn't. I did one in my underwear, though. >> That's close enough.
00:47:13
>> Yeah. So, the etiquette in skydive world is called It's called the Hundi. So on
00:47:16
your 100th jump, you have to jump out in your underwear. >> Oh, it's a thing.
00:47:19
>> Yeah, it's a thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was awesome. New Zealand's the only place in
00:47:23
the world that has a diploma for commercial skydiving. It's pretty cool. >> So you were fully getting on with your
00:47:29
life, eh? >> Oh, yeah. >> It's almost like you had this this this
00:47:31
this brush with death and you thought, "Fuck, that's it. I got to live like I'm
00:47:34
dying." >> Yep. Exactly. Yeah, I did. I had this brush with death and I thought, man, I
00:47:39
just got to take the opportunities from that moment when I was out in the surf. You know, I was a bit fearful of what I
00:47:43
could and couldn't do. But it just hit me like that wind hit me on the balcony.
00:47:47
It was like intuitive like just go out there and live it, man. Just go do some cool stuff and I did. However, there was
00:47:53
one incident. We didn't speak about this on the podcast. I don't think I've
00:47:56
spoken about this. However, we finished that base camp track and my mate Ben, we
00:48:01
went to Kofi in Thailand to just rest and recover. And in Kofi, it's a bit of a
00:48:08
party island and you have these buckets full of whiskey and vodka and it's all
00:48:11
mixed up. See, I hadn't drunken for a long time. And um as I said earlier, when I drunk, you
00:48:18
know, I just turned into a completely different person. And this is the first time I really drunk. I didn't even drink
00:48:22
a full one of these buckets. I drunk about maybe a quarter and I just completely lost it. Completely lost
00:48:29
control of myself. And I went over to this bush, urinated. I don't know what
00:48:34
happened. So my my Ben tells it the best. I got whacked over the head with a stick, like whacked down, and my Ben saw
00:48:40
it. comes over, hits the guy. Once he hits him, 10 to 20 tie guys come and grab Ben and just beat the [ __ ] out of
00:48:46
him. Like it was bad. He was blood covered face, tooth knocked out, had to have a operation when he had got back to
00:48:54
New Zealand. And luckily, I'd met some friends that morning cuz I went diving.
00:48:59
I had my um diving ticket. Made some friends who were New Zealanders and they helped us get out of that situation cuz
00:49:04
they knew the locals. They just pulled us out, got us out. Credit to them. However, I had this epiphany the next
00:49:09
day. I was like, "What the [ __ ] are you doing, man? This is a disrespect to the
00:49:13
opportunities that you've been given." >> Completely out of control. And I
00:49:16
couldn't help my mate. So, I chose then not to drink again. That was my choice
00:49:20
then. So, I haven't drunk for about 13 years from that moment. >> Yeah. Because I couldn't help my mate.
00:49:26
>> It wasn't your fault though, really? >> No, no, it wasn't my fault, but I made
00:49:29
the choice to drink and I knew and I knew that I probably wasn't ready to drink that much for sure, but I was out
00:49:34
of control and I put my mate in a life-threatening situation. Wasn't cool. Wasn't cool. And we laugh about it now,
00:49:41
you know. We do laugh about it. Um but still it hit me hard and and and I I felt so bad. I felt so bad. I had given
00:49:49
this opportunity of life again, an extension of life and I just completely disrespected it.
00:49:54
>> Yeah. >> You maybe like a literal hit over the head is what you needed.
00:49:59
>> No, that's exactly it, Dom. Yeah. A literal hit over the head. However, it
00:50:02
put my mate in jeopardy. It did. Yeah. And that wasn't cool. >> Yeah. So, um, this all paints like an
00:50:09
interesting picture of who you are. So, you have this, you know, brush with death with leukemia and then, um, you're
00:50:13
doing this extreme stuff, couple hundred skydives, you're diving, um, you know,
00:50:18
climbing to base camp, um, just partying hard until you're not anymore. Then when
00:50:23
do you start to feel unwell again? Like, how how long do you get how long of um,
00:50:27
sunshine do you get? >> 13 months. It was Yeah, it was exactly 13 months that I had a window of
00:50:32
opportunity, per se. Yeah. So, I was skydiving. I was jumping out of a plane. We went to high altitude. We went to
00:50:37
18,000 ft when I was jumping with my mate Ivan. Jumped out and I was got severely hypoxic, meaning low oxygen
00:50:45
saturation. So I wasn't didn't have enough red blood cells to accumulate
00:50:49
that oxygen in my body. And I saw one, then two, then three, then there was like 20 of them up there. And I just
00:50:54
pulled my parachute quickly. Just pulled it and then spiral down, sat on the ground. And and I just looked at my
00:50:59
hands and I had these purple spots which indicated low platelets, which I had last time. And instantly I knew what
00:51:05
what was going on, you know, my cancer had come back. >> Yeah. How's that?
00:51:15
What? Like were you sort of like expecting it so you weren't surprised or were you just like just like a a massive
00:51:20
punch in the guts? >> No, I was like, "Okay, cool. I've done some cool [ __ ] I've lived up to to
00:51:25
myself. I made a choice to not drink again due to my values, you know, and I was living an authentic life
00:51:31
>> that I was that I was living. So I was I was I was grateful and if I died, cool.
00:51:36
I was I was that was okay. >> I was at peace with it, but I still wanted to live if that made sense. I
00:51:41
didn't want to die, but if it did happen, that was okay. I did the best with what I had in my life. I'd kind of
00:51:46
accepted, you know, the running part of it that I hadn't represented New Zealand
00:51:50
or achieved what I needed to achieve even though even though I was on the fringe, it was like, "Hey man, you did
00:51:54
the best with what you had." And that's that's what I was grateful for, very
00:51:59
happy for. Um, so yeah, I I waited for a bit. I waited for my annual doctor's
00:52:04
appointment, which was 5 days away, and then I got my diagnosis. I wasn't too
00:52:07
emotional, but I didn't understand the physicality of what I was about to go
00:52:11
through. So, mentally, I was more prepared. I really was, but I I wasn't really prepared for the phys physicality
00:52:16
of what was going to occur. >> So, you you thought it would just be the same again?
00:52:20
>> Yeah, I thought it was going to be very similar, but this was going to be
00:52:22
completely different from Yeah. having an allergenic stem cell transplant. >> Yeah. Is this around the time you ended
00:52:28
up in a coma for 10 days? >> Yep. It was the same time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Just a disclaimer here, too. If
00:52:34
anyone's lining up for allergenic stem cell transplant, >> it doesn't have to be as hard as this.
00:52:39
>> People do have really good outcomes. I just want to put that out there.
00:52:43
>> Um, do you want to have a sip? >> I've been I've been sipping away, man.
00:52:47
>> You keep going to have a sip and then I'll ask you a question. The last thing
00:52:50
I want is you drying up. Yeah. Cuz you you mentioned before you say you don't
00:52:52
produce tears and you don't produce saliva. >> Adequate saliva. No. So when I'm I carry
00:52:57
this fella a little water bottle everywhere I go. It's not my best mate. >> Yeah. What do you What do you say when
00:53:03
you do like keynote speeches? You say it's like a a condom or something. >> Oh no. No. I got asked a couple of times
00:53:08
on the at the end at Q&A. What's it in your hand? Someone said, "Oh, I said to
00:53:11
you use condom." I was like, "Man, no. Is that" And someone's asked, "Is that a
00:53:15
vape? Am I vaping while I'm talking?" No. No. It's just it's just water in a
00:53:19
in a silicon drink bottle. >> Do you do you have to pee a lot cuz you're taking in so much water? Oh, it's
00:53:25
just just normal, I suppose. >> Yeah. Not not as much as my daughter. >> Okay. So, so you get sick again, round
00:53:31
two of leukemia. Then um yeah, what happens? Run us like in terms of the treatments and stuff.
00:53:35
>> So, obviously they call it salvage treatment. Um I salvage whatever they
00:53:40
can with what I've got. And I'm in line for a um allergenic stem cell transplant, which basically means my
00:53:46
immune system would have to come from somebody else. So, our immune systems derived from these special cells called
00:53:52
hemopoetic stem cells. They live in our bone marrow and they create like our red
00:53:55
blood cells, our white blood cells, our platelets and plasma. So that makes it's
00:53:59
like the factory house to make our blood. So that would have to come from somebody else. My siblings weren't a
00:54:05
match. That's the best match you can get. If you got a twin donor, that's the
00:54:08
best match you can get. If you got sibling donor, that's the best match. But then I had a mismatch. So they do
00:54:12
this tissue typing to kind of type my DNA profile to to her to the donor. And they didn't find one
00:54:20
at the start. I had three two rounds of chemotherapy and during that time I developed neutropenic sepsis which is a
00:54:27
bacteria in the blood and that put me into intensive care unit and you know they they told my parents that hey he
00:54:33
might not wake up here um potentially he could die. I had a friend from Chicago,
00:54:39
Callum Baker. Um, he he passed away in that situation unfortunately. Um, >> I was in that situation and God willing,
00:54:49
I did wake up after 10 days. >> Is this the moment where um, like you say your farewell to your parents cuz
00:54:55
you're not sure if you're going to see them. >> I don't say farewell. I'm in a coma. I
00:54:58
can't talk. I can't remember that 10day period, but my family coming up to say
00:55:01
goodbye. >> Where's Where's the moment where your dad lets rip? >> That's it. So, my sister tells a story.
00:55:06
I only know the story through my through my sister. >> Yeah. >> Is your dad okay with this?
00:55:11
>> Yeah. Yeah, he's fine. He's fine. He's great. >> Some light relief.
00:55:14
>> My dad is very sensitive. So, he he was very reluctant to come up. He didn't
00:55:18
want to see me in that situation, but he got called up. Come up and you got to, you know, say goodbye in that. So,
00:55:22
there's I think from my sister's story, three doctors, a couple of nurses, very
00:55:27
specialist doctors. Mom says goodbye, you know, emotional sister, brother, goodbye. And then dad's turn. He's got
00:55:32
his he's got the builder's crack hanging out. bends over. Goodbye, son. Just lets
00:55:36
out of hell. The doctors the doctors are like, "Say how you say goodbye to your boy.
00:55:47
He's a good man. We love you, Pete. >> It's a great light." >> My dad said if anything he wants to be
00:55:52
remembered by, he wants a lot of laughs at his funeral. So, as long as we're
00:55:55
laughing, we're living. >> Fats are funny. >> Yeah, fats are funny.
00:55:58
>> It was just this awkward serious moment. It just Yeah. So um and what do they
00:56:04
tell you is the prognosis at this at this time like a is it you know is it 50/50 chance of survival is it do they
00:56:11
give you like a percentage or do they give you like a life expectancy or anything at that point?
00:56:15
>> So I mean I got told from the registry I had about from my first diagnosis with
00:56:19
the diagnosis that I had being in a poor prognosis was 10 to 30%. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. But however those numbers are
00:56:25
based on an older population cuz it's uncommon for young people to get AML. I
00:56:29
mean, people do get it young, but most of the numbers are over 60, so they don't have the fitness background that I
00:56:36
had. Everyone's an individual, and numbers are just numbers. People say, you know, you're terminal, but people
00:56:42
live longer than what they say. >> So, numbers are just numbers. You don't
00:56:46
take them literally, but the numbers that I did get told were 10 to 30%. >> Which are not great numbers.
00:56:51
>> Not great numbers, but numbers are numbers. I mean, I'm Josh Kman, and I've
00:56:54
got my own journey, my path, and my story is different to everyone else's. >> Yeah.
00:56:58
>> Yeah. Yeah, you're a tough [ __ ] eh? >> Tough bastard. >> Yeah, I mean, it's it's been learned,
00:57:04
but everybody has a has a has a tough mental aptitude in them. >> Yeah, it's just choices and and um
00:57:11
attitude we take around what with what we've been given. >> So, yeah. So, run me through. So, we're
00:57:18
at the point now where you got the second round of leukemia, you know, cuz there's just there's there's so much so
00:57:24
much more. It's just like um >> a layered cake. So you get through the
00:57:28
second round of leukem the second bout of leukemia. >> Yeah. So I have So I'm in ICU. I wake up
00:57:34
and then Dr. Gibbons comes in. He goes, "Great news. You woke up. Congratulations. We found you a donor."
00:57:39
Which was fantastic cuz I hadn't heard that we had a donor. We had a match at
00:57:43
the start before I went into a coma. Awesome. However, she could only donate her stem cells in I think 2 to 3 weeks
00:57:51
time. 2 to 3 weeks time. Now the normal protocol without being in a coma is having two months of treatment then
00:57:57
about 2 months off to reconsolidate get yourself right to go through the treatment that you're going to have to
00:58:02
sorry eradicate your immune system annihilate it like Nagasaki dropping the atomic bomb on there you know so your
00:58:08
immune system doesn't go back so the new one can come and repopulate so it's a
00:58:12
really tough procedure to go through it really >> basically putting you to the brink of
00:58:16
death >> they are they are y so I had to have highdosese chemotherapy and highdosese
00:58:21
full body radiation I sitting in a like a glass box where they just annihilate your body to annihilate your immune
00:58:26
system. So having 2 weeks from getting out of a coma, I couldn't talk. I couldn't walk. You know, my brother was
00:58:32
pushing me around in a wheelchair. I was very, very skinny like a little alien. And I was like, "Holy moly, how am I
00:58:37
going to get through this?" And that's where my breathing, meditation, um,
00:58:40
practices came in. That's all I could really do. >> Yeah. How were you at the time? Were you
00:58:45
sad? You just feel like a broken human? >> No, I was just like, "How can I get
00:58:49
through this? What tools do I have at my disposal to get through this? I mean, I
00:58:52
couldn't walk or exercise. >> So, I tried to eat as much food to put on weight and I just went down to the
00:58:57
boat shed, Antigua boat shed. The green chair is not there anymore, but there's
00:59:00
a green chair. And I just used to close my eyes and visualize myself healthy again. Just see myself in the future.
00:59:05
And I try to conjure that picture in my mind. >> Transplant came and from a transplant,
00:59:10
you you can acquire, not everybody, you can acquire this graph host disease. So,
00:59:15
it's a graph rejection. So the immune system in my body sees my tissue as foreign and it starts to attack it.
00:59:21
Okay? So not everybody gets it and it can kill you. So you have a treatment that can save your life but it can take
00:59:27
your life. And I got graphos host disease acute graph host disease and I was in a
00:59:33
semicoma state again for about I don't know maybe 2 or 3 months. I was in isolation again and I was just I
00:59:40
couldn't eat and I was just sleeping [ __ ] myself. It was crazy. It was a crazy time. There's too much to talk
00:59:46
about there. Yeah. Yeah. But one thing that did sustain me through that was when my mom came over sparkling water
00:59:54
with bubbles and she and I couldn't swallow it, but she'd come over and she
00:59:58
put the straw up to my mouth and the bubbles would pop through my mouth. Just pop pop pop and it was just like these
01:00:03
pure joyous moment of meaning that just sustained me in that period of time. It's like a thanks mom.
01:00:08
>> Then put it aside. >> Why? Because of how it felt or >> just how it felt. It was just relief.
01:00:14
Yeah. And it just kind of it was like a dreflection practice, you know. It just took took my attention away from the
01:00:19
pain that I was in. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I remember you you telling me last
01:00:23
time about um the stem cell transplant. So, it's from a a young girl in Germany
01:00:28
called Hannah. >> Yes. >> Um due to the the way these um donations are done, it's like shrouded and
01:00:36
secrecy. So, you know, she doesn't know who it's going to. You don't know who
01:00:38
it's from. Um, but you just named the person Hannah. >> Yeah, it was like serendipitous. So,
01:00:46
yeah, you don't have to die to have a allergenic stem cell transplant. So, the
01:00:50
donor gets their immune system simulated to extract these stem cells. So, she's
01:00:54
still alive. So, we can write letters to one another, but it's kind of edited out
01:00:58
about names and where you're from. But, I wrote gave her a postcard of the West
01:01:01
Coast and I just wrote that I was a skydiver and I've been to Everest base camp and just a bit about me. The names
01:01:06
are out. But when the stem cells came, I just automatically knew she was a girl.
01:01:12
I knew she was young. That's all I knew. But I just gave her a name. I said, "Oh,
01:01:15
that's Hannah." So, I just called her Hannah, you know. >> Yeah. Why have you you thought about
01:01:20
that? >> No. >> Did it just feel like it was a Hannah? >> It was just like just an int intuition.
01:01:24
I just called her Hannah. That's >> of all the names, not even a strong
01:01:28
German name. Oh, >> my cousin My cousin I got a cousin called Hannah. I don't know. I just
01:01:32
called her Hannah. Yeah. I just It just came to me. I was in Yeah. Hannah's coming. It's Hannah. And then we got
01:01:39
then what happened was when I sent that thank you letter, she wrote letters back
01:01:42
to me. Then I was out after a year. I was in Nelson and I had a friend working for Sky Machawaker. She emailed me
01:01:49
saying, "Hey, I think we've got a email from your donor." I was like, "No, you
01:01:53
don't. That's not allowed to happen." But she had emailed all the skydiving
01:01:55
centers around New Zealand saying, "Hey, do you know a guy who's a skydiver who's
01:01:59
had an allergenic stem cell transplant?" And obviously I was the only one. >> Oh, but she did that because of the info
01:02:04
you provided on the postcard. Yes, she had done that. So, she went she went that avenue and reached out to me and it
01:02:10
was just awesome. And here here her name comes up on the email Hannah. And I was like rung up my mom and
01:02:16
sister. I'm like, you'll never guess. You'll never ever guess. I've just got
01:02:20
an email from my donor and her name's Hannah. >> It's actually Hannah. It's like what are
01:02:25
the chances? Seriously. >> I know. I know. >> It's crazy. >> Yeah.
01:02:29
>> Um are you and you you've met her? >> Yep. Met her a couple of times. Yeah.
01:02:32
Yeah. >> Are you are you going to connect with her when you go to the transplant games
01:02:36
and how old is she now? >> She would be she was n >> I would say she'd be in her late 20s.
01:02:42
>> Why did she end up donating? Um >> yeah, good question. So in Germany and
01:02:46
in Europe because we've got um European ancestry, they um the registar go around
01:02:51
the schools and say, "Oh, do you want to take a saliva sample to be on the registry for a bone marrow donor?" And
01:02:57
you know that that year when I was first diagnosis, they hadn't come around. But
01:03:02
during that 13 months, she'd come on to the registry and she'd taken the saliva.
01:03:06
She just thought it was a good thing to do and she never thought she'd be a donor. But yeah, she ended up saving my
01:03:12
life. >> And what's involved for for a donor perspective? It sounds like it'd be more
01:03:17
complex than just donating a pint of blood. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit more complex. So
01:03:20
they give us a medication to stimulate the immune system to kind of extract the hemopoetic stem cells out of the bone
01:03:25
marrow into the blood. So she goes into Destin where there's an apheresis machine. So, it's a bit like diialysis
01:03:31
in a way. So, they kind of extract her blood, pull the hemopoic stem cells out, put her blood back in, put those um stem
01:03:37
cells in a bag, and then it's got 92 hours to get from her from the extraction to me in New Zealand.
01:03:42
>> Wow. >> Yeah. >> How But how do how do you remember all the big words?
01:03:47
>> It's like you're a doctor. >> No, no. I mean, I love to I love to know
01:03:51
what I've been through and and just educate myself around it. So, when people do ask the question, I can give
01:03:55
them the information. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so after you get the stem cells, is that when you get the um
01:04:00
what's it called? The the graph. >> Yeah. Graph versus host disease. So,
01:04:04
graph rejection. >> So, the so my blood DNA is different from my tissue tissue DNA. So, my my
01:04:10
blood DNA is changed. So, my DNA's changed. So, fun fact about that, Tom, man. If I was about to kill somebody,
01:04:16
they don't have me on the registry here in the police station. >> You could literally get away with
01:04:21
murder. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently. Um so so when the like the pigment in your
01:04:27
skin >> yes >> when like what causes that where >> so that's the that's the graph host
01:04:33
disease. So first it started acutely. It was in my stomach and in my mouth and I
01:04:37
was spewing up all the time. >> So they put me on hydro steroids and amunosuppressants to kind of dampen down
01:04:43
the effect. Um pretty tough medication to be on especially the steroids they play with your psychological state a
01:04:49
lot. Um and there's a lot of lot of side effects from that. So that dampers down.
01:04:55
They kind of um even it out. The immune system's kind of accepting my body with
01:04:59
the imunosuppressants. So it's kind of opening up the door a little bit to let
01:05:02
the immune system go through. And it was working quite well. It was working quite
01:05:07
well. And then I got severely sick again. I was um I got Yeah. So I went over to Germany to say thank you to
01:05:13
Hannah. This is what happened. I went over to Germany and it was very very cold. Um, but I had to go and say thank
01:05:19
you. Once I got the email, I was like, "Man, I can't email her. I got to go say
01:05:22
thank you." And I met her. But it was cold over there and I got admitted to
01:05:26
Berlin Hospital. I got pneumonia and then I got sent back to New Zealand. And this is when my my gra that graph host
01:05:33
disease really started to flare up. And that's when it started like really attacking me and trying to kill me. It
01:05:38
was starting. So I got graph host disease screrma. So it's like a thickening of the tissue. So my fascia
01:05:44
and my collagen is like this buildup. So it's like I'm wearing a wet suit all the
01:05:47
time in a way. So it was really compressing against me and I was having these spasms. Some days I couldn't work
01:05:52
walk for three days. I was just locked up. It was just so painful. And then my eyes started to get really irritated. I
01:05:58
couldn't produce tears and very Yeah. I just Yeah. And my vision was going. Had
01:06:02
to have some cataract surgery. Um I've got blood drops now from other people's
01:06:07
plasma that go in my eye and you know I wasn't producing saliva very dry and
01:06:12
ulcerated and everything like that. So it was really really killing me and that's when the pigmentation started
01:06:17
happening. And then I got this thing called trigeminal neuralgia described as the worst pain known to man because 20%
01:06:23
of people who get this take their life. Phenomenally painful. It was incredibly it's it's still physically the worst
01:06:29
pain that I've been through. Um and I was just screaming in the hospital. I have every pain medication you could
01:06:35
think of to try and dampen down the effect. So there's a trigeminal nerve that runs down the left side of your
01:06:39
face and it was just flared up and it was starting to attack me there and yeah my GBHD was just out of control and my
01:06:46
body was fully rejecting me. So I became like a tin man stuck in my own body could barely people were getting me out
01:06:53
of bed tying my shoes and stuff. So >> for how long? >> I was like that for about maybe six
01:07:00
seven months >> and then after the after the the trigeminal neuralgia Dr. Ruth Spear said
01:07:05
this is enough. >> Amazing lady Ruth Spearing she advocated me to get treatment in Melbourne which
01:07:10
we didn't have in New Zealand called ECP extra corporal phototharesis to kind of
01:07:15
dampen down this immune um immune response this graph host disease I was carrying. So I got accepted and then I
01:07:21
got flown into Melbourne to get treatment. So I was supposed to be there for about 6 months.
01:07:27
Yeah, it's tough. >> Yeah, I've heard you um Yeah, we'll talk a bit about the Melbourne stuff cuz um
01:07:34
there's um yeah, wonderful story in there about how you met your wife. >> Um
01:07:39
>> but I heard you on another maybe another podcast or maybe a keynote speech. Um
01:07:45
there were there were times like when you were going to Melbourne where you like you you say you considered like
01:07:50
standing in front of a tram. >> Yeah. Yeah. A lot had happened in that time, Dom. A lot had happened. So, after
01:07:57
my first diagnosis, I had a high value system of love. You know, that was my high value system. And I had a
01:08:02
girlfriend. Haven't spoken about this, but I think it's appropriate. I found a
01:08:05
girlfriend when I was traveling through Thailand before my skydiving diploma. Meet her. She was German. So, she came
01:08:10
out to be with me through my transplant. She was an amazing girl. Amazing girl. We had a great relationship. She's
01:08:15
holding my hand through all those trials and tribulations. You know, I had a good
01:08:19
connection there. However, it didn't end end very well. So, when I went to Germany to meet her, I was with my
01:08:24
ex-girlfriend living in Berlin. And when I went back, things happened. You know,
01:08:30
she's young. She's at university. I don't talk about it cuz I don't want
01:08:34
people to hold judgment against her. >> But it hurt me hard. It like [ __ ] me
01:08:38
up because I had this high value system, like a vertical value system. Now I have
01:08:41
a horizontal value system. So, if one value pulls up, I can block them together like a Tetris game. So, that
01:08:46
just blew me apart. I've never cried so much after breaking and hearing what
01:08:49
happened, what occurred, you know? listeners can use their own imagination there. Don't have to go into details.
01:08:55
Anyways, so breaking up with her just completely destroyed me. So I think from that issue, my graph host disease fled
01:09:03
up from that and I was completely hurt. And so here's my value system completely
01:09:08
shaken up. I've got all this pain. Graph host disease. I'm dying. And yes, I was
01:09:12
in Melbourne by myself. My brother was there for the first two weeks. Amazing guy. My brother, love you heaps, Jake.
01:09:18
Helped set me up. And then I was by myself. And I was having issues with my heart and you know I was like who the
01:09:25
[ __ ] am I? You know is someone going to love me? And yeah I'd stand by the tram
01:09:29
and just think just jump man. But I couldn't I never do it. I'd never make
01:09:34
that choice but I just really wanted to. I mean Melbourne was tough Dom. It really was. Even to go get my groceries
01:09:41
like needles in my eyes. I couldn't produce saliva. I was just locked up like this old man.
01:09:45
>> And all the memories come back of you running. you can't do that and jumping
01:09:49
out of planes and you couldn't do it. But it was that constant struggle, you
01:09:53
know, you just constant struggle. It's like you can't take your life, you can't
01:09:56
take it. It's okay. There's an opportunity. It's a constant mantra to
01:10:00
yourself. Breaking it down to the small components. And I wouldn't go out of my
01:10:03
room. I'd have my treatment, go home. Actually befriended a homeless man and
01:10:07
and just sat next to him and used to have conversations with him. He told me his story. He was just around the
01:10:12
corner. And just being in Melbourne for that first 6 to 7 months was hard. I was
01:10:16
having issues with my heart and they did the test did and stress test and that nothing was happening. I got sent into
01:10:22
intensive care cuz my tronin levels were up. That's an inflammation of the heart.
01:10:28
I was there by myself and I was just so confused and and and just lost. And then
01:10:33
um I found what happened was my friend sent me um treatment was going okay. It was going okay but I hadn't got full
01:10:41
relief. and my friend sent me this doco vice do about Wimhof >> and I started kind of doing his method.
01:10:49
>> Um I'm not a Wimhof instructor. I just want to put that out there. I don't
01:10:52
teach that breathing method. Um however, it just gave me some it just helped me feel a bit better and I started having
01:11:00
cold showers and things like that. So it gave me a bit of a purpose to wake up for. I went to his retreat, one of his
01:11:05
first retreats in Australasia and I was really excited. I met some really cool people the first night. I sat next to
01:11:10
this guy called Lars and he had been in Okarto which was on the west coast a small town and he was from Sweden. So
01:11:15
having this cool conversation connecting with individuals however I never got to
01:11:19
attend the course itself. I woke up in the morning and had a massive heart attack.
01:11:28
Yeah. Massive heart attack. And I was like I'm in this group of people. I'm
01:11:33
really excited. My life's just been thrown at me. I'm in Melbourne by myself. And man, I was just I was just
01:11:40
heartbroken. Literally heart attack. Literally. >> Um couldn't get out of bed. It took me
01:11:45
40 minutes to ask for help, man. Cuz I was so embarrassed. >> Why were you embarrassed?
01:11:57
>> It's hard it is to talk about cuz I couldn't jump out out of a I
01:12:03
couldn't jump in front of a tram. Thought [ __ ] it. Maybe my heart might just stop.
01:12:13
So I was there for a while. I just sat there and just [ __ ] just [ __ ] take me.
01:12:20
>> But then I just reached out and I said, "Hey, I need some help." Guy Lawrence, a
01:12:23
guy and he he ran the ambulance and I got taken out. I just had my hand on my face and am took me to Jalong Hospital.
01:12:30
I was so angry, man. >> Angry. >> Just at life. >> Just frustrated. Yeah, I mean we've all
01:12:39
got the freedom to choose our attitude, but my attitude wasn't good then. And I
01:12:43
just vented and the doctor was there and I feel sorry for her. The words that I said to her was no good. And you know, I
01:12:49
had more heart attacks, flipped the ECG upside down. >> I had to get put into a separate room
01:12:53
with security. And >> just breaking point, eh? I can tell. Plum. Yeah, you you're still
01:13:03
embarrassed now that you um >> you know were impolite or aggressive to >> you know I just these verbal words this
01:13:10
fire will come out of my mouth and she's like I'm not having this you were in got
01:13:14
put into a separate room of security and just thought man what the [ __ ] going on all this stuff is anything going to
01:13:19
get any better but I still had hope >> I still had Victor Frankle I still had
01:13:23
my faith and that held me together I still had my mom and my family and and then I got sent to back to Peter
01:13:32
McCullum Cancer Center. My hematologist was there, Simon Harrison. He saw me have another two
01:13:37
heart attacks, ECGs flipped upside down, and sent me over to the Royal Melbourne
01:13:41
Hospital in the cardiac unit where I was there for 24 days. >> Cuz there's that saying um this two
01:13:48
shall pass. But if you're going through if you're going through like a [ __ ]
01:13:52
storm and it's a 10 year long [ __ ] storm, like it's [ __ ] hard to stay
01:13:56
positive, eh? >> [ __ ] hard, man. >> It's so hard. Negativity is a part of
01:14:00
it, too. But it's not staying in that state for too long. >> And I did try and ring Jalong Hospital
01:14:05
to say sorry and apologize and everything like that. But it's not staying in that negative state too long.
01:14:09
>> Yeah. >> And luckily I could pull myself out of that state with the pain and discomfort
01:14:14
I was carrying and just look for the future. Hold on to that hope. Have that courage to continue.
01:14:20
>> How was your ego at that time like around your appearance? >> Oh, I lost complete confidence. time.
01:14:28
>> M >> I was embarrassed to go out, man. Just I look like an old man, you know. I felt
01:14:35
like an old man. Yeah. So trying to reclaim my confidence was a big thing. Try to learn that. But um yeah, it was
01:14:42
it was so tough. So I was in there for 24 days and this is what I talk about meaning. I was in this room with an
01:14:49
Indian girl and she'd come over to Melbourne to study and the guy she'd had
01:14:54
a medical defect and she'd put on a health insurance and he was coming in but not helping her. He was an insurance
01:14:59
guy saying no it's not going to be funded and she's like no I've put it
01:15:02
there they've already proved it but he wasn't helping her. So I called him a
01:15:05
side man. I said listen you're not doing your job. Help her out. She's put it on
01:15:10
her form. Help her out. Advocate for her. Do your job. Next day she was all approved and had her surgery. She just
01:15:17
broke down in tears and said, "Thanks." You know, I was like, "Well, that's
01:15:20
that's not right. Him not doing his job, just turning out for a paycheck." So,
01:15:24
helping other people help me through my own process. >> Yeah. >> So, was at this part um where you're
01:15:34
flying backwards and forth from Melbourne that you met your wife? >> Yeah.
01:15:39
>> Cibil. >> Sibil. Yeah. >> Yeah. I met her in Christ Church 3 years
01:15:41
ago. She was eight months pregnant at the time. >> She was. >> Yeah.
01:15:44
>> Yeah. Amazing. This this is the craziest most serendipitous story imaginable.
01:15:51
>> It really is. It's unfathomable. Sometimes I look back from a wide aperture. What the heck? You know, what
01:15:57
the heck has just gone on? So, I'm in Melbourne Hospital 24 days, had 12 heart
01:16:02
attacks in total. The doctor comes in the com the Olympics were in Rio de Janeiro. I had two of my former
01:16:08
competitors, Julian Matthews and Hamish Carson running the 1500. And he comes in, he goes, "Congratulations, Josh. who
01:16:14
won the gold medal for um for the most spoken about patient in the hospital. And I had to write him a letter. I said,
01:16:21
"Listen, man. I don't care if I live or die. Just make a decision. Back yourself
01:16:24
and make a decision. Learn from me as a patient." They hadn't come from come
01:16:27
across a patient like me before. >> Meaning, how do you mean? Meaning >> just with my disease and my issues that
01:16:32
I had. So, they didn't know whether to give me a heart bypass, open me, cut me
01:16:36
open. So, they didn't know whether my skin would heal or the artery would heal. So, they ended up doing a stent to
01:16:41
my left main artery, just stinking it. So job done. After all that time, after discussion and deliberation, I I had to
01:16:49
encourage him to make that decision. Done deal. Got out and then I was trying to get myself back together. I found
01:16:55
this place called Fifth Element Wellness. Great place. Just transformed my life. Yeah. Started doing gut gut um
01:17:02
gut protocols. I was exercising, breaking it down into small components. A great guy called Anthony Anthony Msino
01:17:08
and Dave O'Brien were helping out. And I found a good friend called Mark Claw. So
01:17:11
I established a community and I always talk about connection and community is the foundation of health and it really
01:17:16
is. So I was getting this in in into me when I was um having my treatment and my
01:17:21
treatment started to work better cuz what I was doing outside of my treatment the inflammation was starting to
01:17:25
downregulate so my treatment would function better. So it was starting to get a bit better and I was feeling
01:17:29
better within myself. Had my first ice bath. I felt absolutely incredible afterwards and I felt a sense of
01:17:34
positivity. Really felt it within my nervous system. So that's why I do cold
01:17:39
exposure a a lot, you know, and I felt it has an analesic effect. It really does. Um, sorry we're deterred from
01:17:46
civil, but I just had to talk about how I got myself into talking to people again
01:17:50
>> because I had that component bit of a community and I was feeling good inside
01:17:53
myself. >> So that gave you a bit of confidence. >> It did. >> But did did people like strangers like
01:17:57
look at look at you funny? Could you sense people looking at you funny or >> Yeah, definitely. People would look at
01:18:02
you with a double eye. But then again, it's not my responsibility to how they
01:18:07
think or look. For sure, I look different. They have the right to look at me a few times.
01:18:12
>> It's my responsibility to to project on how they're feeling. Like, it was silly
01:18:16
for me to think, "Oh, you know, they think this, they think that. They can think whatever they want. I just have to
01:18:21
think good about myself." And I do now. I do. I I I don't. It doesn't worry me.
01:18:26
It worries me what is what I feel about myself. That's my concern. So, I'm
01:18:30
feeling a bit better, more confident, and I'm starting to engage with people.
01:18:33
Not not too concerned about their kind of reaction to me. So, I'm flying back
01:18:38
and forth from Melbourne cuz everything's starting to go well. I still have a whole host of
01:18:42
complications. So, I have to stay there for 3 months, come back. But on this certain flight, as you spoke about, I
01:18:47
meet this amazing person, this amazing, amazing girl. She's transformed my life.
01:18:52
So, we're on the plane and she comes and sits down and I say, "Hey, how are you?"
01:18:57
And she goes, "Oh, good. Thank you. have we chat and she's just backpacked around
01:19:01
New Zealand. She asked me what am I up to? I said, I'm seeing my brother, which
01:19:05
you know, he's living in Melbourne at the time now. And then I asked her, you
01:19:09
know, what do you do for a job? You know, what do you do? You know, she's from Switzerland. She's traveling
01:19:13
around. She's doing a backpacking. And I said, what do you do for a job? What do
01:19:16
you do for work in Switzerland? And she said, I'm a cancer nurse, oncology nurse.
01:19:21
So, this is where your confidence comes back, Dom. I picked up my confidence and
01:19:24
I and this was my pickup line to her. I said, "Oh, do you want to come and see
01:19:28
some cancer treatment?" I'm actually in Melbourne to get some of this treatment.
01:19:33
>> Sexy, >> really attractive. I don't recommend it to anyone, but yeah, she um she said, "Yeah, sure.
01:19:40
Sure." And I thought she was just being polite. She's, you know, she's an
01:19:44
amazing person. I thought she was being polite. And sure enough, I said, "Meet
01:19:47
me at Parliament building on the top of Burke Street at 10:00 a.m." And sure
01:19:50
enough, she was true to her word. And um she was there. And that was the first of
01:19:56
our of our many dates. So, and and it's today I've you know I've had a few
01:20:00
hundred treatments there. It was the first time it's ever been delayed. So, she wanted to hang out with me in the
01:20:04
morning. We had a lot in common. We spent the week together. >> Yes. What does your health look like
01:20:12
now? You're mostly pretty good. Like, do you still have to go in for, you know,
01:20:17
regular checkups or anything like that? >> Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still under medical
01:20:21
medical control. I mean, I, as I said, after that 10k run, I pushed it a bit too far. I had a few issues. My my body
01:20:27
turned on me a bit, so I had to adjust my medication back in hospital for a little bit. But yeah, I do have issues
01:20:32
for sure, but I but I can handle them mentally, >> and I'm embracing life for what it has.
01:20:36
I mean, I have my amazing wife with me, >> you know, we have a daughter. Um, I can
01:20:40
run again. I mean, shuffle, whatever, whatever you want to call it, but I can partake in life, Dom.
01:20:45
>> I can partake in life. and the opportunities that I have and and and the people that I've connected with and
01:20:53
everything that's come into my life and the values that I've set myself and the
01:20:56
person that I am now. I'm just so happy about that. I'm I'm just so grateful
01:21:00
that I'm living my true authentic life with what I've been given, you know,
01:21:05
what I've been given and I'm and I'm working with that, not against it.
01:21:10
>> You are genuinely one of the best people I know. like your your attitude is just so rock
01:21:16
solid. >> Yeah. But it took a lot of learning. It took a lot of learning and it took a lot
01:21:20
of work. >> But yes, I am so grateful to be here today alive and breathing
01:21:26
>> and and you've been you'll probably argue this point, but um you've been
01:21:31
dealt a rough hand. >> I have. Absolutely. I have. I admit that. >> But I'm so proud of myself with the way
01:21:38
I've dealt with that hand. You know, I've forgiven my ex-girlfriend. Um,
01:21:43
we're friends. I've thanked everyone that's come into my life, whether it's
01:21:46
good or bad. And I've set myself good values that I've lived up to >> and I think that's the most important
01:21:53
thing in life. You know, we talk about success, whether it's monetary, for sure, money something, but it's not
01:21:57
everything. >> But for me, success is, you know, when I've set myself values, my authentic
01:22:03
values, who are me horizontally, and I live up to them, for sure, not all the time, but I'm trying my best, and I
01:22:10
can die with peace in my heart. I've tried to be a good husband. I've tried to be a good dad, you know,
01:22:18
that I can play with my daughter on the on the trampoline. That was the first goal, Dom, to get myself back on my
01:22:24
feet, to play with her and giggle and laugh and see the growth in her. I've just tried. And if God is up there and
01:22:33
he opens up the doors, he just pats me on the back and says, "Hey, man, you did
01:22:36
a good job. >> You tried your best with the hands you've been given."
01:22:39
>> Yeah. You've mentioned prayer a couple of times in this chat. Are you are you a
01:22:43
religious man? >> Yeah, I mean I don't know about religious. Religious is a set of set of
01:22:49
values and things, but yeah, I'm definitely spiritual. I mean, I do believe in God whether I don't know what
01:22:54
God is, but for me, it's a good orientated direction. >> Yeah. >> And I read the Bible. I get real power
01:23:00
from reading the verses. >> Yeah. Would you like this pre 2011? >> No.
01:23:04
>> No. >> No. I read I first opened up the chapter after reading Victor Frankle's book and
01:23:08
I read it the Bible in hospital. I opened up the book to Joshua my name first chapter uh Joshua 1 vers9 be
01:23:15
strong and of good courage do not be afraid nor dismayed for the Lord God is with you. So that verse has kind of
01:23:20
stayed with me. So when I say a practice of gratitude in the morning that's that's it right there.
01:23:25
>> Yeah. >> When was the last time you got like angry or frustrated or lost your temper
01:23:30
with someone? >> I was cutting pumpkin the other night mate. Oh, I hate cutting pumpkins.
01:23:39
No, I mean, I get frustrated. I'm just normal like anybody else. But it's not
01:23:42
staying in that frustration. >> You seem You seem like one of the most zen people I know, though.
01:23:47
>> No, talk to my wife. She knows I get frustrated for sure. I am human, man. I
01:23:51
am. Absolutely. But it's not staying in that point for too long. And that's
01:23:54
probably what I've I've really learned has been, "Hey, just downregulate.
01:23:58
>> Control my breathing. Focus on what's important. What do you have? say sorry,
01:24:03
forgive, go forward. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I sort of find for for me personally, like when I if I if I find
01:24:10
myself starting to get like frustrated or snappy with people, it's it's it's
01:24:14
often a sign my mental health isn't where it should be. >> Yeah. >> And it's it's it's actually a good
01:24:18
little warning sign that I need to, you know, have like a reset or get some things get some ducks in a row.
01:24:24
>> Yeah. Yeah. Just take a step back and say, why am I thinking this way? What
01:24:28
what do I need right now? What's gone on to cause this reaction? and just have a
01:24:32
bit of self-reflect reflecting practice. >> What about your mental health?
01:24:35
>> Yeah. >> Excellent. >> Yeah, it's it's amazing from where it
01:24:38
was. Absolutely amazing. Sure. As you said, do I get frustrated? Absolutely I do. I wake up, first thing I think about
01:24:45
is like, oh no, but then I have to de-reflect. What do I have? Calm myself down, focus. But yeah, mental health is
01:24:52
good. It's stable. I don't have I mean yes I do have suicidal thoughts especially when I was last year when I
01:24:59
went back had a few issues with my graph host disease it does come back but as I
01:25:03
said before I have the ability to not linger there stay there and let it consume me.
01:25:08
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. a therapist I saw, she she asked me if I'd um ever had suicidal thoughts
01:25:14
and it's the first time I told anyone out loud and I said I was bracing myself
01:25:18
like I thought I was going to be lock locked up in a straight jacket and taken to some sort of facility and I was like
01:25:23
yeah I have and she just sort of shrugged her shoulders and she goes well I mean thinking about it and doing it
01:25:27
are actually two very very different things. >> Absolutely correct. >> That was a a huge release me of a huge
01:25:33
amount of guilt and shame. >> Awesome. >> I'm glad you saw someone man.
01:25:37
>> Yeah. Yeah. How long did it take you to see somebody? And why did you decide to
01:25:40
see someone? >> 45 years. >> I don't know. I was um it was way way
01:25:46
longer than what it should have been. Um and ultimately um there was a friend of
01:25:51
mine that like booked a therapist behind my back and said, "You're [ __ ] going
01:25:54
to a therapist." I was just nervous about I didn't know what like I thought
01:25:57
you go in there and I wasn't sure where where to start or how you'd start or
01:26:01
>> I could I I was depressed, but I I didn't even know why. I couldn't I
01:26:05
couldn't tell you why. And I and I I felt um guilty about feeling depressed because it's like well [ __ ] like Josh
01:26:13
Josh Josh you know Josh is happier than me and he's got a lot to be unhappy about for example or you know what I
01:26:18
mean. Um so you feel guilty that you're feeling depressed and you're like I've
01:26:21
got no reason to be sad about anything. Um but therapy was the Yeah, it was really really good. Just gives you a
01:26:27
different way of reframing and looking at different things. I felt like an idiot for putting it off for so long.
01:26:31
>> No, not at all. I mean life's hard mate. M >> we've all got our own challenges.
01:26:35
Whether you got a heap of money or whether you don't, >> we've all got challenges to face.
01:26:40
>> But as you just stated, you know, feeling guilty about going to talk to
01:26:44
somebody, you know, we go to the gym to to to build muscle. Why don't we go and
01:26:48
speak to someone to build mental strength? >> Why don't we do that? Should be a common
01:26:52
norm, >> you know, and I highly advocate that. >> Yeah. 100%. Yeah. It's like a personal
01:26:56
trainer for the neck up, I say. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Also, who doesn't who doesn't like
01:27:01
talking about themselves for an hour? That's great. >> Oh yeah, it can get it can get a bit
01:27:06
annoying. >> Um I um mentioned you were coming and I got some um questions from people on
01:27:11
Instagram. >> Oh yeah. >> How can someone develop a more resilient mindset when facing adversity?
01:27:22
Um that's a really good question. I've just finished reading a book a while ago
01:27:27
called Resilience. Um the science behind Overcoming Life's Challenges. Great book
01:27:32
to read. There's 10 steps in there what we can do and a lot of them is what we've discussed on um ones like
01:27:37
community having connections finding well-being practices um finding meaning in your life um you know adopting a
01:27:46
breathing practice to downregulate a bit to be able to assess yourself I mean um
01:27:51
also too you know voluntarily doing hard things builds resilience as well I mean
01:27:57
when that fear comes in you know just go into it lean into it a little bit try it, test it, and then you know where
01:28:03
you're at, you know, give that a go. So that's part of those 10 factors as well.
01:28:08
>> So for me, having that community base, I mean, courage comes from encouragement.
01:28:12
That's where it comes from. That builds resilience. Um, connecting. Yeah. Communication, that positive
01:28:18
communication. Um, and reading books, getting perspective, that's been part of
01:28:23
it as well. That that was in the 10 steps. So reading, breathing, finding a practice for
01:28:30
yourself, >> leaning into hard things. Um, yeah, that that's what I recommend.
01:28:39
>> Yeah, cuz you can train yourself to be more resilient. E, >> yeah, you can.
01:28:43
>> Yeah, absolutely. >> I think it's something that you do have to actively sort of work on.
01:28:47
>> Yeah. >> Um, how can we start to treat every day as a gift? Take a bit of time for yourself. Close
01:28:56
your eyes and see yourself. See yourself on top of a mountain. Look at where you've been.
01:29:03
Look at the highs in your life. Those real peak moments on the mountain. Look at the lows. Ask yourself what you've
01:29:11
learned. And then come back to where you are and go forward. What role does gratitude play in overall
01:29:20
well-being and happiness? >> Uh there's a lot to do with gratitude there. Yeah, absolutely. I mean
01:29:26
gratitude just gives you a sense of what you do have in your life right now. And
01:29:30
if we are living in New Zealand in this amazing country, we do have a lot around
01:29:33
us. Even though the aperture might be narrow, >> um we've had a lot of opportunities. We
01:29:39
we get given a lot. Yeah. So that gratitude of just being where you are right now, of what you do have
01:29:46
um really gives you a good perspective of how to go forward. >> What does um the phrase living fully
01:29:53
mean to you? >> Living fully. Um I think just living up to your values that you set yourself.
01:29:57
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I truly believe that. Yep. Living fully. It's not essentially going out
01:30:00
there and making an awesome bucket list and achieving them. It's just being present in the moment, understanding who
01:30:06
you are, set some values for yourself that you truly believe and action them. That's what I think living a full life
01:30:12
is. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. what what are your values like when when it comes to like um
01:30:18
>> you know absolute cornerstones. >> Yeah. So our family we've developed a
01:30:22
value system so it's called basic we've got to break break things down to a
01:30:26
basic component. So B is belief. We both believe in God and we both believe in each other you know that's a that's one
01:30:31
belief and then we have A which is attitude. We spoke about always looking for a positive attitude. And then S is
01:30:37
simple. Just breaking things down into its simple component um so we're not getting too overwhelmed. What can we
01:30:42
control? what can't we control? I is for internal. So looking out after our health and wellbeing. So that's really
01:30:48
important for our family. And then the three C's at the end is connection, communication, and courage. So obviously
01:30:54
we've spoken connection and communication over the podcast, but courage too. Courage to lean into those
01:30:59
hard things. So they're our kind of basic values for our family. That's what
01:31:02
I have. And it's written down horizontally. So there's no one value that supersedes the other.
01:31:08
>> Yeah. >> What a great answer. God, I'm so pleased I asked that question. I thought you'd
01:31:12
have an answer for it. I didn't realize it would be so >> Our values are important to me.
01:31:16
>> Yeah. Yeah, they are. And that's really good for our family. Yeah. >> Yeah.
01:31:21
>> For someone going through their darkest moments, what advice would you give
01:31:24
them? >> Reach out for help. >> You know, take your time for a bit and
01:31:28
just reach out for somebody. Just ring them up, whether you're crying, whatever
01:31:32
is going on, just have a conversation just to share that load. Yeah. That's that's that's the best thing we can do.
01:31:39
>> And you, what's your inner voice like? Are you quite kind to yourself?
01:31:42
>> Yeah, I am pretty kind to myself. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I make mistakes like
01:31:45
everybody, but it's not lingering in that mistake problem for too long. And I
01:31:49
say, "Hey, you tried your best with what you knew. You're not perfect. Try
01:31:52
again." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Victor Frankle's got a great quote
01:31:56
about that actually about mistakes. He's like, "Live as if you're living the
01:31:59
first time as if you're acting for the second time as wrongly as you're about
01:32:02
to act now." >> So, it kind of brings you into that moment. We're not perfect, but you've
01:32:07
got a second chance to make amends on that situation. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What does a bad day look look like for
01:32:12
you? Now, >> a bad day for me, Dom, is when my body's just completely seized up through the
01:32:17
night. I've had sleep deprivation. I'm in, you know, real discomfort and I have
01:32:22
to contend with that. And I've done a couple of keynote talks where that's
01:32:25
been the issue and I've turned up and I probably haven't delivered my best talk
01:32:29
or or connected with an individual that I probably should have been listening because I'm more intertceptively
01:32:35
aware of of where my pain was. Yeah, that's that's pretty bad day. or if I
01:32:39
haven't spoken to my wife appropriately or or Yeah. something like that. >> Yeah. Best and worst habits. What would
01:32:46
they be? >> Best habits? Consistency. >> Determination. >> Yeah.
01:32:52
>> Yeah. That's my best habit. >> Worst habits. I mean, >> your best habits can be your worst
01:32:57
habits. You know, my determination can kind of >> supersede my my wife what she's thinking
01:33:02
and, you know, that causes a bit of conflict. Um, she'll pull me back a lot,
01:33:06
which is good. She keeps me accountable. So yeah, I think your best habits sometimes work out to be your worst
01:33:11
habits. >> Yeah. >> What are you most afraid of? >> Not living an authentic life.
01:33:17
>> Not living up to my my meaning potential within this world while I've got life.
01:33:24
And yeah, I'm not scared of dying. I'm not fearful of that. We're all dying
01:33:29
slowly. But I'm not I am concerned about not living an authentic life and not
01:33:34
being the role model for my daughter and for her to live her life as well. >> Yeah. What what's she like? She she's
01:33:43
I've I've met her. I met her. >> No. Yeah. I think you you met her and
01:33:48
when Yeah. Um Sibil was eight months pregnant at the time. So now she's like
01:33:52
walking and saying words and talking. >> Oh, she's walking, mate. She's an animal
01:33:55
on the scooter. She's Yeah, she's great. She is just a bundle of life. She's she
01:34:01
speaks two languages. She's now my teacher. She'll tell me off if I'm not
01:34:05
speaking German properly. No, she's she's just such a amazing girl. And her middle name her middle
01:34:13
name is Maya Hannah from from our donor, too. >> So, I mean, she loves the trampolines,
01:34:19
she loves jumping, she loves climbing, she's just a typical kid. She frustrates
01:34:22
the heck out of you, but then she just brings such life into into your world, you know? She is the shining light
01:34:28
within our family. >> Has she expressed any interest in getting in your ice bath yet?
01:34:32
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She goes, "Da, ice bath. Da ice bath." And put me in, but
01:34:35
she'll put her legs in and come back out. She loves to watch, too. But she Oh, cold da. Cold dada. But yeah, she's
01:34:42
awesome. >> Yeah. Oh, you're a good role model. >> She'll make her own choices around that.
01:34:46
We don't force her. >> Um, what about regrets? >> Yeah, I mean, obviously that that being
01:34:51
issue is is a is a regret. maybe some of the decisions I've made, but >> Oh, the Thailand thing.
01:34:57
>> Yeah. Yep. >> Oh, you need to move on from that. >> For sure I do. But it still lingers with
01:35:01
me. I don't like to hurt my friends and put them in that position. >> Yeah.
01:35:05
>> I mean, regrets. I mean, I've did the opportunities, the situation has arisen, and I've done the
01:35:12
best that I can with the knowledge that I've been given. >> And as a young kid, you don't know
01:35:17
everything. >> I've made some [ __ ] choices, but I tried my best with what I knew. Could have
01:35:23
been better for sure, but I'm trying to work on that to go forward. Yeah. >> What about future goals?
01:35:28
>> Where where do you see yourself in 10, 20, 30 years? >> It's a great question, man.
01:35:32
>> Yeah, obviously a good cohesive family. That's that's really important.
01:35:36
>> More kids perhaps? >> Probably. Maybe. >> Have you got more more sperm frozen?
01:35:40
>> Yeah, just it's like going to McDonald's. I just have to rock up, make
01:35:43
my order through ice. >> It's like the worst. This snow cone tastes really funny.
01:35:50
>> No, for sure. Well, I love to be um I'm working on my speaking skills. I did a
01:35:54
bit of work with Jason Gun and I'm trying to get my speaking skills up to up to scratch. I love to be an
01:35:59
international speaker. >> You do you do a lot of keynotes. E >> I've done a few keynotes now. Yeah. I
01:36:03
wouldn't say a lot, but I've done a few. Um and I'm working on that. Really makes
01:36:06
me quite anxious and nervous, especially talking about what I've been through.
01:36:09
But, you know, having those conversations afterwards are really meaningful to me. Um in fact, maybe we
01:36:15
could talk about this. You had a guest on your podcast and I think it is appropriate. I he was his name's Jackson
01:36:21
Carden Basher. He was on your podcast. So I did my first kind of significant talk to the Highlanders and for me
01:36:29
connection is key and I didn't know what to expect. I really didn't. I was in a
01:36:32
professional environment. Didn't know what to expect. Did my talk and it was
01:36:36
like a beehive afterwards. All these players come up and it was just incredible. I was blown away. I didn't
01:36:40
know what to expect. There's always people at the end of a talk that come up
01:36:44
and share with you. So it doesn't come about rugby. It's not about rugby.
01:36:47
However, there was one guy who waited till everyone had dispersed and his name was Connor. Connor Garden Bashet and
01:36:55
I've never met him before. I've watched him on TV and you make it, you know, and
01:37:00
but he came up to me and we had a moment of meaning. It wasn't about rugby. I got
01:37:05
to saw Connor for who he was and he spoke about what do you do if you're two
01:37:11
cuz he had twins. I'm pretty he had twins. what do you do if your girls are in pain or agony? And I just said, you
01:37:18
know, you look at them, hold their hand, and say, "I love you. That's what I do
01:37:21
with my girl." And he just and we just both crying. We had a connection. We had
01:37:26
a moment. We were there for 10 to 12 minutes. We wrote a few messages afterwards, but I got that's the beauty
01:37:32
of having these talks in connection. He's a rugby player, but I got to saw Connor for who he was in that moment.
01:37:39
And that's very, very special. It's very special. And it's so sad that he's not
01:37:44
with us today. It hit me. I was up in Oakland when I was doing a talk for the Blood Nukemia Foundation just reading
01:37:50
about it. However, I got to see Connor not as a rugby player, but for the person who he was. So, bless you,
01:37:58
Connor. Thank you for that moment and condolences to the family. >> Yeah, it was his his brother um Jackson
01:38:05
that I had on the podcast. He plays rugby for Moana Pacifica now. Um yeah. Um yeah, I think Connor was it was just
01:38:15
like an unexplained medical event. Like it's still being um explored by coroners, but I think it was like just a
01:38:21
like a heart attack overnight or something. And it's just rocked the family. Like you see the the ripple
01:38:26
effect it has. It's massive. >> Yeah, absolutely massive. But >> yeah, great guy.
01:38:32
>> Um three words that family or friends would use to describe you? probably encouraging, motivating, and
01:38:40
stubborn. Yeah, that's what I would say. >> But if it wasn't for the stubbornness,
01:38:46
you probably wouldn't be alive today, right? >> Yeah. I mean, that part of me
01:38:49
>> superpower. >> Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. Yeah. That stubbornness has really helped me. But
01:38:53
it's also hindered me as well. It really has. So, just kind of finding the happy
01:38:57
medium in there. >> Yeah. >> Do you like what you see when you look in the mirror now?
01:39:01
>> I do, Dom. Yeah, I do, mate. It's taken a while for sure, but I look at myself
01:39:05
in the mirror, look at my eyes and see my soul and look at, you know, look what I've achieved and what I've got in my
01:39:10
life and what I've overcome. For sure. I I I do. I really love myself, man. >> And when you have have a conversation
01:39:16
with you, you feel like you're looking into the other person's soul. Definitely
01:39:21
feels that way. >> Yeah. >> When you speak with people, it's like a
01:39:24
real It's a real connection always. >> Thank you. I mean, that's what I would
01:39:28
try to do and that's what I've learned from Victor Frankle. M >> I mean that's essentially what he's
01:39:31
trying to do with his work, what you know, what he's left in this world. So >> um yeah, I think I think as I said, you
01:39:39
know, with Connor, it's not about the rugby or or Dom Harvey the podcast. It's
01:39:42
the person that's made him >> through all his adversities, through all
01:39:46
his triumphs, what's made you you. Let's talk about that. >> Yeah.
01:39:51
>> And yeah, adversity is a part of a part of life. Like suffering suffering is
01:39:55
part of life. Maybe not not to the degree that you've had to go through, but
01:39:58
>> No. No. But hardships are part of life. >> Yeah. >> And you know, we often make assumptions
01:40:02
about people with a lot of money. They're still going through hard things. >> It's just different from the other
01:40:07
person, >> you know. >> So, how do we overcome those hard things? How do we overcome those hard
01:40:13
things? Have the conversations, get a perspective, be patient, >> you know, be persistent, persevere.
01:40:20
>> Yeah. >> Well, Josh Coleman, this has been great. Part two. Um I'm I'm so proud of you and
01:40:26
I'm proud to call you a mate. >> Yeah. Thank you, Dom, and likewise. It's
01:40:29
It's just awesome to connect with you again. It always is. And to have that first conversation in your hotel room to
01:40:34
this awesome studio that you got, mate. And what you're doing for other people.
01:40:38
Ah, what you're doing for other people. I need to say this, too. I got a friend
01:40:41
who's in the transplant games. His name's Connell Bean. >> He started running after his kidney
01:40:46
transplant cuz he read your book. He picked up your book about running and he thought, "Wow, this Don Ivy's pretty
01:40:52
cool." He sent you a message, too. But I want to give him a shout out because you
01:40:55
have helped him get back on his feet and now he's um running at the World Transplant Games and he's doing
01:41:01
phenomenal work. He's raising money for Ranui House. He's set up a bit of a
01:41:04
fundraising event in Nelson. Great guy. So, >> [ __ ] that is so cool. >> Reading your book, Dom.
01:41:11
>> Unbelievable. Someone's read it outside of my own family. >> Yeah. But thank you for doing that and I
01:41:16
know we appreciate that. >> Yeah. Look, it if you've been listening to this podcast and you're like, I want
01:41:22
to read a book, please um look for V Victor Frankle's Man's Search for Meaning, not Running a Love Story by Dom
01:41:28
Harvey. That would be my my parting words. Hey, um Josh, this has been great, mate. It's been so cool. And
01:41:34
thank you for um yeah, coming back on the podcast. I really appreciate it. >> No, thanks for asking me and and thanks
01:41:41
for having me back on, man. It's it's always good to connect on. And just a
01:41:43
quick shout out, the World Transplant Game team are looking for a small sponsor to help with the uniforms. If
01:41:48
anyone out there is keen to get involved, give me a message and we can sort something out. So, thank you. Thank
01:41:52
you, Dom. It's good to see you, bro. Really? >> Yeah, you too, mate. Whenever I pick up
01:41:56
my phone and there's a voice note from you, uh I always save it until I'm in a
01:41:59
nice quiet spot so I can I can listen to it cuz I know it's going to be something
01:42:02
deep and profound >> and something that's always going to make me feel better.
01:42:06
>> I appreciate it, man. >> Yeah. Love you, Joshy. >> Keep breathing, brother. Love you, man.