00:00:00
We sold millions of cans of soda last year in supermarkets. These then skyrocketed to the number one wellness
00:00:06
drink in New Zealand. I am the founder of a brand called Moody. They wanted to help women feel their best.
00:00:11
>> You've set a north star to make Moody the largest women's mental wellness brand in the Western world. Yes.
00:00:17
>> By 2030. >> Yes. If you don't aim high, you know, you might not ever achieve what you
00:00:21
truly want. >> You're giving away like a gold Range Rover. >> Yes. >> What are some of the biggest sacrifices
00:00:26
you've had to make over the past 4 years? hardest piece is that like emotional mental resilience that you
00:00:32
need to get through it all. >> What sort of um u missteps or mistakes have you made along the way so far? Have
00:00:37
there been any standouts? >> Yeah, I I think there's a lot to create, you know, an extraordinary outcome, you
00:00:43
need extraordinary inputs. >> If you could go back and talk to yourself at the start of the journey,
00:00:47
three pieces of advice that would save you a lot of money or a lot of time or a lot of worry.
00:00:52
>> Kate Gatfield Jeff, welcome to my podcast. >> Thank you for having me. First of all,
00:00:58
who is Kate and what is Moody? >> Two very good questions. So, >> one of them is easier to answer than the
00:01:05
other. >> Yeah, the Moody one's definitely easier, I would say. So, I am the founder of a
00:01:10
brand called Moody. We've got the cans on the table, but we are a women's wellness brand in New Zealand. We're
00:01:16
also now selling into Australia and soon to be the US. Um, but I started the business four years ago now and it's
00:01:23
been allconsuming through that time, but an incredible journey. Um, started it out of law school. I really wanted to
00:01:30
help women feel their best. I always knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but I sort of thought I'd put that dream on
00:01:36
hold, you know, go get a law degree, get some corporate experience, earn some money, and then the the sort of the idea
00:01:43
of what would become Moody came along and I couldn't not just jump in. So, yeah, here I am.
00:01:48
It's worth pointing out this is this isn't like a paid um podcast or anything like I reached out to you to get you on
00:01:54
the podcast because um I'm I'm in the I I I read somewhere that 99.9% of your audience is women or customers are
00:02:03
women. >> The people who buy it are but I have the sneaky feeling, Dom, that there's a lot
00:02:08
of men drinking it out of their wives fridges. >> Yeah, I'm familiar with the brand though
00:02:12
cuz the girls in the office go on and on about your hormone gummies. Yeah. By the
00:02:15
way, I'm just going to open this drink now and give it a And that's nice. Strawberry watermelon.
00:02:24
>> Yeah. >> It's very nice. >> Yeah. Um this So, this brand's only four years. This brand is the same age as my
00:02:32
podcast. >> Wow. >> Look at you winning. >> Yeah. And you? >> Yeah. No. People say to me, um, "Oh, you
00:02:39
must be so proud of your podcast. It's going so well." I'm like, "No, if you knew how much work had gone into it,
00:02:44
it's actually not doing that well." But your brand, you've gone from nothing to um just this brand that's got huge um
00:02:51
like recognition in in a real short period of time. >> Yeah. Feels like dog years.
00:02:56
>> If if someone um told you that in uh like at the very beginning of the journey, if someone
00:03:02
said in mid 2026 the brand would be where it is now, um how would you feel honestly? Like would you be blown away
00:03:08
by how far it is or would you be like well good that's what I would hope and expect because of the work I'm doing?
00:03:13
>> I think a combination of both like >> I would never have picked it but it kind
00:03:19
of becomes that like shifting goalpost mentality like sort of every 6 months you you know you work really hard and
00:03:25
then you maybe achieve what you set out to achieve and then you recalibrate those goals and you push for like the
00:03:30
next thing. So, I think you just keep shifting like what you're aiming for. But I certainly 4 years ago was not
00:03:36
aiming to be where I am today. I would never have, you know, probably dreamed of that.
00:03:41
>> Yeah. At the point point where we're recording this, you're get you're giving
00:03:43
away like a gold Range Rover. >> Yes. Yeah. Among other things. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. If you could go back and
00:03:50
talk to yourself at the start of the journey, which is only four years ago, um, three pieces of advice that would
00:03:55
save you a lot of a lot of money or a lot of time or a lot of worry. Hm. I think number one, when you set out to
00:04:02
start a business, a lot of people think it's going to be like quite intellectually challenging. So, you
00:04:06
know, you have to learn all these technical skills and you're trying to pick up like a new industry. And for me,
00:04:11
I knew nothing about supplements, nothing about manufacturing, supply chain, social media, marketing. But,
00:04:16
weirdly, that stuff has actually not been the hardest. I think the hardest piece is that like emotional mental
00:04:24
resilience that you need to get through it all cuz the rest you can kind of just
00:04:28
figure out. But that's probably number one. Gosh, three pieces of advice. Uh the second one is I think like the
00:04:35
people around you is really really important. And for anyone who's like trying to chase a big ambitious dream,
00:04:41
you know, there are people in your life who out of love and wanting to protect you might not necessarily support you in
00:04:48
the way that you need at that time. and their version of support is maybe like reigning you in and saying like you know
00:04:53
maybe don't aim for the the stars shoot for the moon. So >> for me it was like how do I cultivate
00:04:58
those people around me who are going to inspire me to dream bigger and like chase those goals. And number three
00:05:07
get enough sleep. Everything's better when you've had a good night of sleep. >> Are are you um are you failing miserably
00:05:12
at number three? >> No, I'm good. And I Yeah. And we have a sleep supplement which I I'm a super
00:05:17
user of and know I try and get 8 hours every night. >> Yeah. >> Cuz um one of New Zealand's greatest
00:05:22
entrepreneurs I think uh Sir Peter Beck from Rocket Lab. I've had him on the podcast. I've got a quote from him. Uh
00:05:27
he said you don't achieve anything big on an 8 to5 Monday to Friday schedule. To achieve something big it has to be
00:05:32
all consuming. >> Yeah, it's very true and it has been allconuming and I think I touched on
00:05:36
that like in the very start of you know who am I? Like my life is mostly moody at this point. um it's not a 9 to5 but
00:05:44
that's why I think it's really important that you are passionate about whatever you set out to do in business because it
00:05:50
will become you know the vast majority of your waking hours. >> I I um I've been listening to other
00:05:56
podcasts that you've been on in the past week. There's even a story you told about being at home like late at night
00:06:01
um on New Year's Eve one year >> like watching fireworks out the window. I think you may have been crying at the
00:06:06
time. >> The last >> cuz you were busy working. The last three New Year's Eve, we've had our
00:06:10
biggest launch on New Year's Day at 9:00 a.m. So, you can imagine the fun that I've had. Yeah.
00:06:16
>> Do you do you have many um many friends or like have you had to sort of um like
00:06:21
sort of put them on the on the back burner for this chapter of your life? >> I think for the first couple of years I
00:06:26
was much less intentional. Um but now I've really like tried to invest into my friendships and yeah, they're so special
00:06:31
to me. >> Yeah. And your relationship with work life balance now is it quite healthy?
00:06:37
Um, I think it's improved. Yeah, I think I've been on evolution because ultimately like yes, it's all consuming.
00:06:43
You have to be all in, but you can't be so all in that you burn out every, you know, 6 weeks. So, it's like how do you
00:06:49
put in all of those hours but still have enough resemblance of balance to be able
00:06:53
to recharge? >> Yeah, cuz you got some heat a while ago for doing a LinkedIn post saying that
00:06:57
you worked 365 days straight. >> Yeah. A few people emailed and they're like, I would definitely never work for
00:07:02
you. I was like, that's not quite the expectation I have of my employees, but yes, thank you.
00:07:08
>> But also, you know, there's that saying, um, don't yuck someone else's yum. Like,
00:07:13
it's like we all get 24 hours in the day and you can spend those 24 hours however
00:07:17
you choose. And if you want a healthy work life balance, like maybe a maybe being an entrepreneur or having a
00:07:22
startup is not for you. >> No. And and it's just this chapter of my life like I look at it now in sort of
00:07:27
these phases and like this is the build scale phase like you know when things are going well you have to double down
00:07:33
and make lemonade out of it and you know in 12 months time the business may not be on the trajectory that it's on now
00:07:39
with the rapid growth and things may look different. So you really just want to seize the opportunities while you
00:07:44
have them. >> Yeah. So this idea um came about because you and your friends were all exhausted
00:07:49
and stressed with uni exams. Um, yeah. No, in hindsight, what's more stressful? Like uni exams or the early years of a
00:07:57
being a founder of a startup, but >> yeah, I think I have a tendency to overcommit and I'm a slight sucker for
00:08:02
punishment. So, yeah. >> Well, so um yeah, it's only four years old. What would the what would the what
00:08:08
would you sell now price be? Like what's the value of the company? Is that something you talk about or not really?
00:08:12
>> I actually have no idea. I mean, you kind of see other things sell and you sort of look at that and you do the math
00:08:18
in your head and you think, "Oh, that's, you know, a big number, but it's not something that I've like actively
00:08:22
explored. I think I'm still wanting to be in the driver's seat for a bit longer."
00:08:27
>> Yeah. Cuz it's like your baby, but say I don't know like Coca-Cola or someone
00:08:31
came to you and they offered you like x amount of millions. Would is your emotional attachment so strong that you
00:08:37
couldn't let go or you have you got accountants or people that would be like Kate we we got to do this
00:08:43
>> and then just start again with something new. I think it just depends on what
00:08:46
your goal is, right? Like for me, I started this business with this big purpose in mind. I've achieved a lot of
00:08:51
that, but I think I can take it further. And then the other part that I didn't necessarily foresee was like this huge
00:08:57
learning growth journey of like self-development. And I don't think I'd be able to get the learning that I'm
00:09:04
getting right now sort of at the helm of this business anywhere else. So, I think
00:09:09
I I want to see that through and have some unfinished business. M. Yeah. So, as I've said a couple of
00:09:16
times, four years old. So, what are we now? 20 another four years. So, Moody 2030. What does that look like?
00:09:22
>> Can you think that far ahead? Do you do do you have like a four year pro projection, 5year projection?
00:09:27
>> I do now. Um, so we're tackling the US market. There's a lot of opportunity there for us. We've done very well in
00:09:35
Australia and New Zealand, but you know, there's only so many women who can drink
00:09:38
my products. You know, >> target the men now. Exactly. Well, we do, you know, women control 80% of
00:09:44
household consumer spend. So, we are indirectly, you know, getting a lot of men take the products. Um, so the US for
00:09:50
me is like a really exciting opportunity. I feel like a lot of Kiwi entrepreneurs have that ambition. Um,
00:09:56
but beyond that, you know, I think we'll see what looks like when I get there. I
00:10:00
might need a bit I need a bit of time off. >> Yeah. You get a salary now, eh? You
00:10:07
didn't in the first couple of years, but >> I didn't pay myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:11
Have you bought anything cool? >> No, but I'm looking at it. I'm I'm tempted to buy something.
00:10:17
>> Have you bought yourself a Range Rover yet? >> No, I haven't. And I know. And they
00:10:22
think we're literally crazy cuz every year I phone up and like, "Hey, it's that time of the year. I buy a Range
00:10:27
Rover last minute like in cash the day before." And they're like, "Oh, we love that time of year." But no, I Yeah, I
00:10:33
don't think I'm really that driven by the money. >> Um >> that Range Rover thing. So, so it's an
00:10:40
outright winner. It's not like a lease for a year or anything. Someone wins it and it's theirs for life.
00:10:44
>> Yeah. >> Or they sell it. >> I mean, I I don't know anything about you. This This is your wheelhouse, not
00:10:51
mine. But >> that seems like a lot of money on a giveaway. And how many how many people
00:10:56
How many of your customers take part? Like 10%, 20%. >> I don't know the percentage. So, we gave
00:11:01
one away last year and and it has, you know, multiple benefits. Like it's giving back to the community. We could
00:11:07
just put that money into, you know, Facebook ads or something, but we want to do something to give back. And it's
00:11:11
really fun. And I think especially now, like people need a little boost. So, we did one last year. It was crazy
00:11:17
successful. We did it for the soda when it launched into supermarkets and we ran
00:11:21
it sort of as an online promotion as well. These then skyrocketed to the number one wellness drink in New
00:11:26
Zealand. We had millions of entries into that competition. Um, so this year we're
00:11:31
doing it again and our balls are now the number one protein snack in supermarkets. So there's something to be
00:11:37
said for giving away a Range Rover. >> So it works. >> Yeah, it works. >> Cuz I told my partner that you were
00:11:42
coming in. She's um 32, so she's probably like smack banging the moody demograph. And I said, "Oh, that
00:11:47
company's only four years old." And she's like, "What the [ __ ] They're giving away a Range Rover." So she
00:11:51
already knew about it. So I when she said that, I thought it's it's not even about the the car that someone wins.
00:11:56
It's the whole hype and the whole thing about it. >> That's right. Like it's a whole
00:11:59
ecosystem and you have to be dialed in in every way. Like you can't just get this big prize and give it away. you
00:12:04
need to have all the supporting infrastructure to make it, you know, into that big thing.
00:12:10
>> It's I mean, it's your company and you're the boss, but is it hard to get that over the line with the accountant
00:12:13
or? >> Honestly, this one was a little funny. So, I think for a lot of the decisions I
00:12:19
make in the business, they're very like data driven. I'm, you know, very conservative. I think I'm not a huge
00:12:25
risk taker in many respects. And then occasionally, I just get a fun idea and I'm like, I'm just going to action it
00:12:30
and then, you know, ask for forgiveness later. So, for this one, I was in a yoga
00:12:35
class. We were originally just going to do this like golden ticket part of the promotion where we had cash inside, you
00:12:41
know, balls and did online prizes. I just thought, I feel like the cash isn't enough and we need to do something crazy
00:12:46
like a gold Range Rover. So, that day I went to the dealer and bought it. And then I was like busily phoning the team
00:12:52
up like driving the Range Rover home. Hey guys, like just to let you know it's been a change in plans.
00:12:57
>> It's cool that it's still small enough that you can still make these these decisions.
00:13:00
>> Oh yeah. I mean, I like own the business, so I can I'm accountable to myself.
00:13:06
>> Yeah. But as as soon as businesses grow and there's more staff, like even though
00:13:09
you're you're the boss, you often you still have to answer to people because you give them the job and the title and
00:13:15
>> Yes. That's very true. And you have to give people that respect, right, and empower them to be able to make
00:13:19
decisions. Yeah. >> All right. I want to go back to the beginning and then we can go back to the
00:13:23
moody stuff. How does that sound? >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Um, yes. So, who was Kate before Moody?
00:13:30
>> Yeah. What what are your earliest memories? What's your family like? I haven't heard much about this anywhere.
00:13:34
>> So, I grew up in Fong Padawa and I definitely had that like barefoot Kiwi childhood. I tell people that we would
00:13:40
be like, this is probably why I was kind of bad at math for a while is like we'd
00:13:44
be in school and then there'd be like dolphins or whales down at the beach and the teachers be like, "Right, we're
00:13:49
leaving. We're all running down to the beach to like see these, you know, marine animals." And we just did that
00:13:54
all the time. Like we went to the beach like at school, on the weekend, after school, before school, at lunchtime.
00:14:00
Like, oh, math is boring. Let's all just go to the beach. So, yeah, I had to do a
00:14:05
bit of work on my maths. Um, and I wouldn't say I was, you know, the smartest kid in school. I worked fairly
00:14:12
hard. I was that kid that like sat up the front of the class and definitely wanted to, you know, make a good
00:14:16
impression and do right and follow all the rules. Very like ruleorientated person. Um, but I don't think there was
00:14:23
anything about me that was particularly special. >> What did your reports say? >> Oh, I feel like back then at school they
00:14:31
had like four different types of reports. It was like you're the A+ kid. You're kind of like the participation
00:14:37
give it a go kid and then you're like you're not participating or trying. Mine was always that middle one. I was like
00:14:42
Kate is very conscientious and like you know makes an effort and you know shows up and yeah has potential. and your your
00:14:50
family dynamic, your parents still together. >> Yeah, so my parents are very entrepreneurial. Um they were both
00:14:55
lawyers and then they've sort of done their own sort of things in life and carved out a path for themselves that's
00:15:00
very like purpose- driven as well. And I've seen them really give back in so many ways to causes that they're
00:15:06
passionate about. So I think for me as a kid seeing that growing up it was like work is something more than you just do
00:15:12
to >> you know make a living. You yes you need that but it can also be this bigger part
00:15:17
of your life. We spend so much of your time so much of your life working. You got to enjoy it. Eh, so they were they
00:15:23
in the the crowd that tried to talk you out of this when you finished your degree and had the option of No,
00:15:27
>> they were very supportive. Fantastic. >> Yeah. Among the few. >> Yeah. >> Among the few.
00:15:32
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. completely different to you, but another very successful New Zealander I've had
00:15:38
on the podcast recently is a guy called Neho Sterling who's um a UFC fighter and
00:15:42
um it was his dream for a long time and he had like family and uncles telling him, "Oh, okay, maybe dial back your
00:15:49
expectations." And they were just scared um that he was going to get let down because it was such a lofty goal and now
00:15:55
he's made the the UFC. the the people that tried to talk you out of it. With some of them, did it
00:16:00
come from a like a good place protecting you or >> Yeah. And that's what I mean at the
00:16:04
start of like getting that group of people around you because absolutely people want to protect you out of that
00:16:10
love and respect for you that they don't want you to, you know, fail or be disappointed or, you know, not achieve
00:16:17
what you set out to do. But, >> you know, you kind of set your expectations and then you strive for
00:16:22
that. So, if you don't aim high, you know, you might not ever achieve what you what you truly want. Did that piss
00:16:27
you off or are you the sort of person that uses it as fuel? >> I think a mixture. I think in the moment
00:16:33
you're kind of disappointed but you're sort of like I'm in, you know, I'm going to do it anyway.
00:16:37
>> Yeah. >> Um ex Peter Beck again when I had him on the podcast, he told a story about a
00:16:43
parent teacher interview where um the his teacher said to his parents, "Oh, Peter's dream of sending rockets into
00:16:50
space is a little bit un unreasonable. like we need to like um yeah temper his expectations and his goals. And he said
00:16:57
on the drive home him and his parents were sitting in silence and his dad was just like well [ __ ] him.
00:17:02
>> Yeah. I love that. Yeah. My parents were totally like that and they still are to
00:17:05
this day. >> Yeah. >> So what do you think the lesson is for anyone that's trying even if it comes
00:17:09
from a place of love? Anyone that's trying to talk someone down from their goal, should they just shut the hell up?
00:17:15
>> I think so. And I think it's like, you know, you almost see it with friends when they're maybe in a relationship
00:17:20
with the wrong person. And it's like you can say all the things, but they're just
00:17:23
going to want to do what they're going to do anyway. And you're ultimately your role as that friend or that person is to
00:17:28
sort of pick up the pieces at the end and not say like I told you so. So I think it's the same with any, you know,
00:17:34
big ambition. I'd also say like on the side of the person chasing that dream, some advice that I'd heard when it was a
00:17:41
little too late was maybe don't tell people, you know, until you're so far in the journey that it's actually like not,
00:17:47
oh, I have this idea. It's like, look what I've already done, you know, in pursuit of this.
00:17:51
>> And Sarah Blakeley, who's been one of my biggest inspirations, she started Spanx
00:17:56
in the US. She didn't tell anyone that she was working on this business for 2 years until when she was telling them it
00:18:02
was like, you know, they there was no going back. M that's a good piece of advice.
00:18:08
>> So, so back to the school stuff. Um I heard heard a story about you which I think sort of sums up your personality
00:18:13
type. Um apparently you were [ __ ] at running. >> You used to finish near the back end of
00:18:18
the school cross country which I think is incredibly relatable. Then one year you decided to take it seriously. So you
00:18:23
started training and then you did your like top five finish or something. >> Correct. Yeah. I think that's a great
00:18:28
way to summarize my life is like not naturally gifted at any particular thing but have a good work ethic. But but with
00:18:35
something like the school cross country, I'm just quite keen to sort of get into
00:18:37
your psyche on this one. Um like most people don't care if they last. Like it's the cross country. Who who gives a
00:18:42
[ __ ] >> So why were you >> Yeah. Were you like an A type personality where you just wanted to be
00:18:48
good at everything? >> I'm definitely an A type personality. I wouldn't say that I want to be good at
00:18:53
everything. There are certain things that I'm terrible at and I just have no interest in it. I think it's more when I
00:18:58
have that spark of like I have this ambition and I want to achieve something. that's when I'll go all in
00:19:04
and there's nothing stopping me. So cross country was one of those things. >> Why did you give a [ __ ] about the cross
00:19:09
country? >> Well, I didn't care for the first 15 years of my life. And one year I was
00:19:13
just running and I thought, [ __ ] this sucks. Like I'm dead last. I was like a really asthmatic kid and very unfit. I
00:19:20
just thought, you know, next year I'm going to come back and beat all these kids. So that's what I did.
00:19:25
>> But a lot of people it's it's like delayed gratification, which I suppose like is that cross country lesson is
00:19:30
probably something that's come in handy for you. the first year of like growing this business. Like a lot of kids would
00:19:35
do that. They'll be like, "Right, I'm never going to come last again. I'm going to train Monday, Tuesday,
00:19:39
Wednesday, maybe Thursday, the next week." They train and then they they get bored and give up. You played the long
00:19:44
game. >> I did. It was a really long game as well. I'd run with my iPod shuffle like
00:19:48
up and down the same street. All my neighbors were like, "What is this girl doing?"
00:19:52
>> Yeah. >> Um and in your teens um you you used to read read books like um Michael Hill and
00:19:58
Richard Branson. Were they just books that were lying around your house from your entrepreneurial parents or?
00:20:03
>> Yes. And this is before the days of, you know, you had an iPad as a kid or a smartphone like I had a little brick of
00:20:09
a Nokia. It's like what else am I going to do in the school holidays? I'm too young to work. You know, you do the odd
00:20:14
babysitting gig, but it's like I have to fill the time somehow. So, yeah, started
00:20:18
picking up those books and I think that's where I got the first kind of inkling of like this is what my life
00:20:24
could become and that you are the architect of the life that you create. So you should set out to do something
00:20:30
you know extraordinary. >> So how old are you now? >> 27. >> 27. Okay. So this is 10 years ago. So
00:20:37
other kids your age would have been reading I should I don't know A fault in their stars or or Twilight.
00:20:43
>> You what else were you reading? >> A lot of self-help a lot of business books I remember. So I was sort of Yeah.
00:20:50
I think that cross country thing was probably also born out of that of like you can achieve whatever you set your
00:20:55
mind to and the power of that is really, you know, underrated. So the cross country is a great example. I ended up
00:21:01
creating this PowerPoint presentation for my parents and I was like I know I was a weird kid. No, I wasn't that
00:21:08
weird. >> Would you describe yourself as like a like a nerdy swatch? >> I was uh
00:21:12
>> like an undercover nerd. Um but anyway, I pitched this to my parents. I was like, I want to go to boarding school
00:21:17
for my last 2 years and just like open my horizons. So, I moved schools. I guess I would have been 16 or 17, knew
00:21:25
no other kids and just started completely fresh. Um, and I think that was again another good like recognition
00:21:33
of wow, like you can really just create these opportunities in your life and no one else is necessarily going to do it
00:21:39
for you. No, no one's going to that [ __ ] That's one I'm in my 50s now and you realize I
00:21:44
think it's a like a Mel Robbins thing or there's a thing I see on TikTok all the
00:21:47
time. It's like no one's coming to save you. No one's coming to write the business plan. No one's And it's true.
00:21:53
It's so true. If you want anything in life, you got to do it yourself. Um, so your educational needs were just not
00:21:58
being met at that school. That's why you wanted to change. >> Yeah. Like, and I I think I just wanted
00:22:03
to be in an environment with like other people who were dreaming big. Not that the kids there weren't, it's just there
00:22:08
was like 30 kids in my whole year group. So, you know, I went to a school where I
00:22:12
could do debating and I could do rowing and I could sign up for fencing and I could do cross country and, you know,
00:22:18
lots of different things. Philosophy club and just like try on all the different hats. I think at that stage of
00:22:24
my life it was like figuring out, you know, what am I good at? What do I not enjoy? And maybe what do I want to do? M
00:22:31
there's often been this thing in um New Zealand where um like thinking big or wanting to achieve or you know or try
00:22:39
hard has um has been seen as a negative thing and people often try and pull you down. Was was was it was that part of it
00:22:44
in a way? >> Were you sort of bullied or picked on for wanting to achieve too much? I don't
00:22:49
think I was bullied or picked on, but I wouldn't say that I felt I fitted in. Whereas, you know, where I spent my last
00:22:54
two years, like everyone was thinking bigger and that was encouraged and that was cool and I really thrived in that
00:23:00
environment. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Um, and I heard you on another podcast about a notebook at 17. You wrote in
00:23:07
that um that you wanted to be a CEO by the time you're 40. >> Yes. >> Um, I'm sorry you failed.
00:23:12
>> Well, actually, no. >> I've got a few more years left, Don. Um, >> I could give myself the title if I
00:23:18
wanted. >> Well, yeah, that's true. Um, what else what else was in that notebook?
00:23:22
>> Yeah. So, that >> was was it like a list of goals? >> Yes. So, to your point around not, you
00:23:27
know, thinking bigger, it was actually from Sir Michael Hill's book, Think Bigger. And it basically encouraged you
00:23:33
to make this like 40-year plan. So, here's me at 17 making like a 40-year plan for my life. And I set all of these
00:23:39
goals for different facets of my life. You know, like I talked about my health and fitness like wasn't amazing. I set
00:23:44
you know goals for my career and the the CEO was one of them. But you split your
00:23:48
life into like sort of these decades and for me in the last decade I have achieved pretty much everything I set
00:23:56
out to do in that 40 years. So I'm going to have to rewrite the plan but um >> yeah it's a really powerful thing I
00:24:02
think to also just visualize and there's some you know statistics around once you
00:24:07
actually write a goal and you've committed to it you're so much more likely to achieve it. M what what else
00:24:12
was on it for the decades? >> Get really fit. So, like I said, I was really asthmatic. I was super unwell. I
00:24:18
I probably took I'd say close to 50% off of my last year of school because I was
00:24:23
so sick. Um I was hospitalized all the time. I just had terrible asthma and allergies. So, you know, I have none of
00:24:30
that today. I don't take any medication for my asthma. Um which is such a like niche thing, but it's something that I
00:24:35
really worked on overcoming. >> Okay. So then you go to university with a law and commerce degree. Um, does that
00:24:43
come in handy at all now? >> I brief a lot of lawyers, but I don't do it myself. Yeah, I have a lot of
00:24:50
lawyers. >> But could could that be done now with like Chad GPT or Claude or something or
00:24:54
>> Yes. Yes. And it's Yes. Look, in hindsight, probably wouldn't have spent 5 years at uni, but
00:25:01
>> Yeah. >> Was it a good Yeah. Good experience or unnecessary waste of time? I I would say like what I did while I
00:25:08
was at uni was really beneficial. So I did a lot of internships and I got work experience which you know going from uni
00:25:16
to starting Moody and Moody being my first full-time job. I am so grateful I did that because otherwise I would have
00:25:22
like literally never been in any workplace other than my own. I did lots of sort of extracurricular activities
00:25:28
with involvement in like women in law groups, women in business groups and all of that I found really fulfilling and
00:25:36
learned a lot about, you know, leadership, building teams, solving problems, you know, encouraging people
00:25:41
to do what you tell them to do. >> And did you have a fun time at university? >> Um,
00:25:47
>> oh, that went that was really high pitch. >> I Sorry. >> No, it usually means someone's about to
00:25:53
tell a lie or >> Yeah. No, no. I was just thinking, no, I don't think I did have fun in the
00:25:57
traditional sense, >> like a social sense. >> No, not really. No, I was very determined. And I was, you know, doing
00:26:03
six papers of law and business, wanting to get good marks, working 20 hours a week, and leading a team of, you know,
00:26:09
12 women to deliver these sort of programs. So, it was a lot. >> What sort of law did you see yourself
00:26:17
doing? Or was the law degree like a means to an end? >> Correct. The law degree was like a
00:26:21
backup plan just in case, >> right? >> Yeah. So when did the when during the degree did the idea for
00:26:32
Moody come about? >> Towards the very end. So probably in the last year. Um. >> Oh, is that right?
00:26:38
>> Yes. So I was studying really hard like I just said. I was had all these things
00:26:42
on my plate and I'd sort of set my sights on going into business consulting which is like super competitive. You
00:26:48
have to have the grades. You have to have extracurriculars. you've got to have, you know, something fun like being
00:26:52
an Olympic medalist and something which I didn't have. So, I was, you know, CV building. And I then realized sort of at
00:27:01
the very end of probably my last year that that was not what I wanted to do. And I had these job offers on the table
00:27:08
that were very lucrative for a student, right? You know, you're signing an offer
00:27:12
for six figures and you've got a signing bonus for thousands of dollars and all of those things. and I just thought this
00:27:18
is actually not going to fuel my fire and I want to instead start this business.
00:27:23
>> Why don't you just take one of those jobs, earn 100K a year, even though you it's not really your passion, your
00:27:29
heart's not in it, and spend your evenings developing this side hustle >> because you wouldn't have had evenings.
00:27:34
These are like 80 plus hours a week job. So, it was kind of all in or nothing. Yeah.
00:27:41
>> Um that took a lot of courage, I think, to turn those jobs down. Yeah, that would probably be one of the harder
00:27:47
moments of my I'd say like personal and professional journey. And that's when everyone was like, "You are crazy."
00:27:56
>> Were you crazy? >> Yes, of course I was. And the bis the business at that point like Moody didn't
00:28:02
exist. I didn't have a website. I didn't have a product. I I think I had the name. Um I didn't have any of that
00:28:08
stuff. Like it was just an idea really at that point. But I knew that I wouldn't be able to work on the idea if
00:28:14
I went into that career. >> Okay. So the the in the final year of your degree, you start um R&D, research
00:28:22
and development. >> Yes. >> What other names are on the short list? >> Oh, like just terrible. I I remember
00:28:30
seeing an Instagram page that I made and I was like, what the hell is this name?
00:28:33
I think it was a name I wanted to call the business pride and joy. Like I think I was thinking like Ben and Jerry's, but
00:28:40
how terrible was that? I was like, "Oh, thank goodness." Yeah. >> Oh, no. After a while, a name just
00:28:45
becomes a thing, doesn't it? >> Oh, I mean, that one was probably never GOING TO TAKE OFF. IT'S LIKE,
00:28:51
>> BUT then like I I I would argue like Moody's not necessarily m you It's like you've rec Moody is a negative word.
00:28:58
>> That's right. Reclaiming it. >> Yeah. Was that the Yeah. Is that the thinking process that went into that?
00:29:03
>> Yeah. >> H that seems like a risky move. Not not when you look at the grand scheme of what I was doing and what I
00:29:10
was weighing up. That was probably the smallest risk that I took. I >> compared the pride and joy.
00:29:15
>> Yeah. Or turning down job offers and >> making bets on, you know, manufacturing
00:29:20
and putting all my money in. >> Yeah. So, where do you begin? So, you've got how much money saved up? Because I I
00:29:28
wasn't familiar with this term, but um the term I've heard you use is bootstrapped, which means which means
00:29:33
you just start the company without borrowing any glamorous way of saying you have no money basically. So yeah, so
00:29:39
to this day basically I haven't taken in any external investment or loans or debt. So it's just funded from that
00:29:46
initial investment and I may or may not have used my signing bonus that I'd put on hold for a year. So that was helpful.
00:29:55
Um and I started a Tik Tok marketing agency and I just tried to earn cash while I was going but I'd also been
00:30:02
saving through all of my work. not much, you know, like to fund the first production run like in the ballpark of
00:30:09
$10,000. Of course, you've got other costs as well of, you know, trying to advertise and build a website and stuff,
00:30:13
but I did it all on a shoestring like didn't hire the first person until, you know, two years into the business or
00:30:20
something like that. So, I was jack of all trades. H how much of it is has been like a good business model and how much
00:30:27
of of it has been your personal force of personality or nature and just you you know I suppose what I'm saying is like
00:30:34
you seem like the sort of person that could get an idea and make it a good idea >> potentially I think there has definitely
00:30:40
been elements of luck right like there have been trends that we've written without necessarily knowing we're
00:30:45
writing them because we've been slightly you know early enough but not too late and all of that I think is an element of
00:30:50
luck but yeah I think there's a lot to be said for exec ution and you can have a great idea and not execute it well and
00:30:57
the business wouldn't necessarily succeed. >> How did you know there was a gap in the
00:31:00
market? >> I feel like it was very intuitive at at the beginning. Now there's a lot more
00:31:06
data and science behind everything that we go into. But at the beginning, it was
00:31:09
that intuition of like this is a problem for me. Anecdotally, this is a problem for a lot of women that I know. And I
00:31:16
feel like yes, there's a gap in the market. And more importantly, there's a big market of women in that gap.
00:31:22
>> Cuz I wouldn't have thought there was a gap in the market. Like I'm thinking four years ago. I don't know.
00:31:26
>> That's partly why people think I was crazy is that like this is the most saturated industry. Why would you go
00:31:31
into this? >> But but there was. And you've done it. You like you saw a gap where other
00:31:35
people didn't. >> Yeah. And you don't have to be completely different. You just have to
00:31:40
be better. And I always say like that doesn't mean on every dimension. You know, at the start it was just like the
00:31:45
positioning and the product was slightly different and resonated better with the
00:31:50
target customer >> that um yeah that that so you do that year the final year of your degree
00:31:57
research and development um and then you turn down these jobs and you start working on it but you don't get to pay
00:32:02
yourself for a couple of years. >> Correct. um your your dog sitting um >> and fun fact I hate like I hated dogs
00:32:11
back there. I like them now, but I've been desensitized. So I created a um profile on trusted housesitters.com.
00:32:17
I've got really good reviews. >> And yeah, I was like, I love dogs. I love cats. I live for them.
00:32:23
>> I was like, I am a pet person. Um please let me look after your beloved animal.
00:32:31
>> I promise I won't lock them outside at night. Exactly. Exactly. I'll diligently
00:32:35
walk them. Yeah. And I did. >> And that was a way of making ends meet while I put every scent that I had into
00:32:41
the business. >> What were you eating at that time? >> A lot of oats. >> Yeah. I think that's on the record
00:32:46
somewhere. But yeah, it was pretty unglamorous. Like I even look back at photos and I'm literally wearing like
00:32:52
the same clothes in everything. I think I had like one pair of shoes and I remember getting invited to this photo
00:32:58
shoot the uni was putting on and I'm wearing this like beautiful blue dress and I've got like white Birkenstock
00:33:05
sandals on underneath. I was like, can you just not get my feet in the photo? >> Yeah.
00:33:09
>> See, there must have been moments. So, at this point, you're in your early 20s.
00:33:12
>> Yes. >> You've got this law degree. You turned on these um job offers for a six figure.
00:33:17
So, there must have been moments where you were wondering if you're doing the right thing or not.
00:33:20
>> Yeah. And the first >> self-doubt and all that. >> Yes. The first 365 days were really
00:33:26
hard. So that first year I had no idea what I was doing. Barely selling any product. Like I remember the first
00:33:33
production run was we had to sell eight units a day to sell out the stock before
00:33:38
it expired. And I remember thinking how the hell am I going to do that? Like worst case I go down to I don't know
00:33:44
Parnell Market, set up a stall and just like sling the stuff off for the cost that it was to make it. But at the one
00:33:50
year mark, it was like all of those little seeds that I'd been planting finally started to grow and from there
00:33:57
it just took off. >> Was there a clear sort of tipping point? >> Yes. I think it was everything I'd
00:34:05
learned in that first year. I then changed a lot of things. So I changed the packaging. The like our branding was
00:34:12
gold. Turns out gold looks terrible on a website. So everything like that changed. The only thing that stayed the
00:34:18
same with the original product was the active ingredient and the dose, which arguably is like the most important
00:34:24
thing, and the name Moody, of course. >> When did you hire your first person? >> I think about 2 years in. So, I was
00:34:31
doing full-time customer service, like 40 hours a week, you know, on Gmail, Instagram, Tik Tok, and then trying to
00:34:37
work on the business, you know, in and around that. And at that point, I thought, I think someone might be able
00:34:41
to help me with this. >> Yeah. >> And where do you begin? Like, what do you hire? Like so I suppose there's like
00:34:48
just so many options you could go in with that first hire. >> Yeah. >> So what role do you fill?
00:34:52
>> Well, for that it was customer, right? Like for me I and I tell founders this
00:34:56
when they ask me is like write out a list of everything that you do and you know time stamp it. Like I was like I
00:35:01
said 40 hours a week on customer service and then when you've got that list, you
00:35:05
know, highlight what are the things that you know perhaps you don't necessarily enjoy and that someone else can do
00:35:10
better than you. And I love customer service. I love our customers but 40 hours a week is a lot. So I thought, you
00:35:17
know, that's that's the first thing that I can outsource, delegate. >> Um, what about agism and sexism?
00:35:25
>> Yeah, >> especially in those first couple of year. I'm sure it's a lot easier now
00:35:27
because it's an established brand, so you've built this credibility, but early on,
00:35:32
>> yeah, I think both are like at play in different ways. Sometimes it's more obvious, sometimes it's more subtle.
00:35:38
I've definitely experienced both. Um, but I think especially on that age piece, you know, I heard this quote
00:35:45
once, it's like age is just a number and you can either mention that number endlessly or you can sort of just get on
00:35:50
with it and not let that limit you. And that also goes for people who are quite a bit older starting businesses. You
00:35:54
know, people say, "Oh, I'm in my 60s like I can't, you know, do this or I'm too old." No, you're never too old and
00:35:59
you're never too young. >> Yeah. >> Did you ever come close to um giving up? People use that saying blood, sweat, and
00:36:06
tears and the reality is there's there's no actual blood. But there is there is there is sweet and
00:36:13
there is tears. I'm sure there was a lot of tears >> and a lot of sweat. Yeah, >> a lot of sweet as well. Sweet equity
00:36:19
though. >> Yes. Correct. Uh yes, I'd say close to giving up but not where I thought it was actually in the
00:36:28
realm of possibility. >> Right. just an hour or two hours here and there where you're like
00:36:33
>> you like to, you know, play with the idea of like, oh, wouldn't it be nice to
00:36:36
just, you know, throw in the towel and then you wake up and realize, no, I have to fight this fire and I have to keep
00:36:42
going. >> It's amazing what a good sleep does, eh? >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
00:36:47
>> Yeah. I just can't imagine some of the obstacles you you encountered, especially early on, or are they still
00:36:52
there now and they're just like bigger and different and there's more of a way through them?
00:36:55
>> Yes. So, I'd say the bigger the business, the bigger the problems. It's not easier, but it's just different.
00:37:02
It's still very hard, but I think I'm more well equipped to deal with them now. So, I get a big problem, I'm like,
00:37:07
I don't know how I'm going to solve this, but I've got the track record from solving unsolvable problems that I just
00:37:13
back myself to do it. >> What's what's been the um hardest things to learn? Like
00:37:19
>> I'd say people management like the people side leadership. I mean, yes, while I don't want to talk about my age,
00:37:25
I am, you know, relatively young. And it is an interesting feeling, you know, walking into a room, sitting at the
00:37:30
table, and you're potentially the youngest person and the one that everyone is, you know, looking up to to
00:37:36
make a decision and make those hard calls. >> Yeah. Did have you ever had sort of
00:37:41
imposter syndrome? >> All the time. Yeah. All the time. >> Yeah. >> How do you overcome that? What do you
00:37:48
do? >> I think it's just reps, you know? It's just reps on the board of like you get
00:37:54
invited to something or you do something and you think, gosh, why me? Like, do I
00:37:58
deserve to be here? And then, you know, you do the thing and it goes well and you think, well, yeah, I've earned my
00:38:02
place at the table and I'll >> I'll take that seat. >> Have Have you had to um have you had to
00:38:08
like adjust or change your personality style? Like, you know, say you're too nice or too much of a retriever, people
00:38:15
take advantage of you. I I think I have like a a work Kate and then a personal Kate
00:38:21
>> just out of necessity. >> Yeah, totally. Like and they're still authentic to me and they're aligned with
00:38:26
my values, but you know, work me is is definitely a a more dialed up version of you know, my normal personality and you
00:38:34
know, sometimes they shine through into each realm. >> Yeah. People that deal with you, what
00:38:38
would they say about you? like would they say she's like she's she's um like a tough negotiator or you
00:38:46
know what would they >> Oh goodness. Uh I feel like I'm in a job interview. This is a question I ask
00:38:52
people in interviews. >> No, cuz I had a guy on the podcast recently called Phil Smith. He's um a TV
00:38:56
guy, runs a company called South um Great Southern Television and he's from Southland and he said he described
00:39:01
himself as a border collie but he said in business he he you just can't be like that because people just he said it's
00:39:06
sad but people just take advantage of you. >> Totally. And you always have to have
00:39:10
that. But at the same time, like I I'm a real people person and I want to make people feel good and, you know,
00:39:17
encourage them in in whatever way I can. So I always try and be a good person, but I think it's like how do you be firm
00:39:23
but fair? >> Yeah. What are some of the biggest sacrifices you've had to make over the past four
00:39:29
years that people wouldn't necessarily see or wouldn't necessarily know about? >> Um, I think the financial one is is
00:39:35
quite a lot. And it's interesting like I then saw all of my friends you know go off and get their well- paid corporate
00:39:42
jobs and for the first few years like I was earning zero dollars and they were earning this and I thought well I've got
00:39:46
the same skills and experience like why have I chosen this route but you know now it's interesting because it almost
00:39:53
flips and it's like oh well it was good that I backed myself and you know thank goodness that it's paying off so far. So
00:39:59
I think the financial sacrifice is one. I think there's an there's an emotional tax that you pay as a founder or that
00:40:05
I've paid in my experience and that's just you know the relentlessness the constant problems. You know the buck
00:40:13
stops with you. Like people tell you their problems but you don't necessarily tell them your problems. So I'm always
00:40:19
trying to like you know become more resilient, have more balance so that I can recharge and then be better. And
00:40:27
yeah, I think that's a a big a big sacrifice. And I think the third thing interestingly now is like,
00:40:33
>> you know, people come up to me all the time. I'm sure you get this. Like I could be anywhere and someone will come
00:40:37
up to me and they like want to talk to me about Moody and their experience or they want to give me like some, you
00:40:42
know, constructive feedback or whatever it may be. And like that's amazing. But truly sometimes I'm like, "Oh [ __ ] I
00:40:48
literally one day I was like just got out of the sauna. I was like looked like a drowned rat. I yeah I was not in a
00:40:54
state to be like encountering people and someone wanted to tell me like they're so excited to like potentially win a
00:40:59
golden ball and I was like I am trying to turn on in this moment but I am just like not quite where I need to be. So
00:41:07
yeah that's like an I wouldn't say that's a sacrifice but that's like a a unique experience or you know getting
00:41:13
Tik Tok hate or reading something about yourself that is you know untrue or not nice or whatever.
00:41:20
What sort of Tik Tok hate are you getting? >> Your your your but I don't know if this
00:41:25
is you personally but your brand is massive on Tik Tok hate and social media. It's been a huge part of your
00:41:29
marketing strategy. >> Well, I think when you become big enough and you know culturally relevant enough
00:41:34
and you have enough people talking about you, there's going to be some people saying negative things about you.
00:41:38
>> Of course. Yeah. Um, oh, just v, you know, various things like one was about me personally and, you know, saying that
00:41:46
I'm not a nice person for someone's encounter with me. And, you know, you always
00:41:50
>> Yeah, I I stopped it. Just when she got out of the corner, she was really rude.
00:41:53
>> I know. And I I truly like always show up with the very best intentions like most people. And you what I've learned
00:42:00
is you can't control how other people perceive you or their experience. you can only put out into the world, you
00:42:06
know, the best that you can in business and in life. And so for me, that's like what I live by. And, you know, I go to
00:42:12
bed every night thinking like I've done the best job that I can. >> Yeah. This is a saying I really like
00:42:16
that other people's opinion of you is none of your business. >> Yeah. And it's true.
00:42:20
>> Yeah. And and the only thing you control is how you react to these things. Um but
00:42:25
I've sort of been, I suppose, over the years more in the public eye than what you have been until now. So I'm probably
00:42:30
better equipped to deal with that. But um it must be strange for you like you being a woman in your mid20s starting
00:42:36
this business and then suddenly there's like comments like that online. >> It is weird
00:42:40
>> and you can't help but let it get to you. >> Yes. And I think the first time it
00:42:44
happens is very strange and quite shocking and you just sort of don't see it coming. Um, but now I feel like I'm a
00:42:51
lot more resilient and I kind of just take it in my stride. And you know, you try and maybe take anything out of it
00:42:56
that is constructive, whether it's like how I can be doing things differently or
00:43:00
just making sure that the same mistake doesn't happen again if it was something that on my end or the business's end.
00:43:05
>> Um, but generally it's like, you know, it's someone finding fault with something that
00:43:10
>> arguably, as you say, is none of your business. >> Has the brand encountered any sort of
00:43:15
negativity yet? >> Not really. And we work so so hard to always like you know reply to every
00:43:23
customer do right by everyone who comes into our orbit. I always tell the team like someone can have a terrible
00:43:29
experience with the product. Like taste is subjective as I have learned. You know some people think our product is
00:43:34
the best thing they've ever tasted since sliced bread and another person says it's disgusting. Luckily this is a very
00:43:38
small minority of people. But I say if that is someone in that camp, I want them to come into, you know, the Moody
00:43:44
ecosystem and still have a positive experience with the brand. So, I mean, again, that's kind of the only thing you
00:43:51
can control. >> There's a saying I I I actually got this from you. I heard you say this on
00:43:56
another podcast and I hadn't heard it before. Um, shiny object syndrome. >> Yes.
00:44:00
>> Yeah. How how would you describe that, by the way? >> Well, here's some shiny objects right
00:44:04
here. Exhibit A. No, I I think you're using it in um the context of um you know, you build this
00:44:11
brand and the brand grows and then opportunities present themselves. >> Um and it's uh can be hard to turn these
00:44:17
these opportunities down. Um yeah. What are some of the the hardest things that you've had to turn down for the for the
00:44:23
good of the brand on the long term? I think it's more when I've had ideas of things I want to do or launch or you
00:44:33
know channels I want to sell in and then I go out and understand from the customer what do they actually want and
00:44:41
sometimes it is very different to what I want. So I won't pursue that and I'll do
00:44:46
you know ultimately what's best for the customer and what the demand is going to
00:44:50
be in. So just because I like the idea of you know something it doesn't mean it's going to be popular.
00:44:56
Is the customer always right though? There's that quote from Henry Ford. >> I know. And they'll tell you a faster
00:45:01
car. So, not always. And this is a great example where, and this is sort of like
00:45:05
the Range Rover thing, is you can have all this data and you can be dialed in, but occasionally you just have to make a
00:45:09
gut decision. And so, we surveyed our customers and said, "Would you buy, you know, canned pre-probiotic soda?" I
00:45:16
think like 7% said they'd buy it. >> And we were like, "Oh, maybe we don't." But I thought, "No, we're going to do
00:45:22
it." And now, yeah, it definitely has sold a lot of cans. >> Yeah. Often they don't know what they
00:45:28
want. >> No, that's true. But I think you can get enough data to understand it. So, we
00:45:32
knew they wanted convenience. They wanted something like juicy, fruity. They wanted the benefits on the go. They
00:45:38
wanted it in a supermarket. So, to me, all of that is sort of like the faster car, you know?
00:45:44
>> Yeah. Hey, by the way, you mentioned supermarket. Um, yeah. How hard has it has it been to get the product like a
00:45:50
fairly new product into supermarket shelves in good spots as well? >> Yes, great spots. So, we did it a sort
00:45:56
of reverse way. A lot of brands start and then they launch into the supermarket and then they try and build
00:46:01
a business online. Like when we were pitching into supermarkets, we'd already sold millions of servings of product
00:46:07
online. So, we could say like we've got all these women who love and use our products in New Zealand and we think
00:46:12
that they will definitely buy it in store even though only 7% of them said that they will. Um, and so I think
00:46:18
having that traction for us was sort of a more unique position. And then, you know, getting on the shelf is the easy
00:46:24
thing, but you have to show that you're selling for them to keep you there. And,
00:46:28
you know, we have >> over 60% market share now in wellness drinks in New Zealand. So, yeah, we're
00:46:33
doing pretty well. >> Does that buzz you out still when you're in a a Warts and >> Yes, totally. I some just go to the
00:46:40
supermarket just to like look at my products >> and then I buy them. Yeah. or like
00:46:45
rearrange the shelf and Yeah. >> I mean, everything becomes Sammy Sammy after a while, but I I just can't
00:46:51
imagine like the the pride or the feeling you had like the first time you saw it there.
00:46:55
>> Yeah. It's been wild. >> We've got a team of people who sort of go into the stores and like I said,
00:47:00
rearrange the shelves. Like I'm not there doing every single one. And we to this day have a WhatsApp chat where when
00:47:05
they've gone into every store, they take a photo of the shelf after. And we, as you say, like get incredible displays.
00:47:10
We're like in a pallet by the entrance. That stuff excites me. Like I'm in this What app chat like heart reacting to
00:47:15
like every picture that comes through every day. So it never gets old. >> Okay. I'm keen to talk about your
00:47:21
management style for a bit. Like we talked about communication before and just how you need to, you know, be a bit
00:47:26
tougher in business. Um >> yeah, first of all, what do you what do you look for when making a hire? What is
00:47:32
what is a moody girl >> or guy? >> Or guy? >> Uh hungry, humble, smart. Those are my
00:47:38
three non-negotiables. So hungry like we're a fast growing business. It's not a 9 to5 even if you are an employee.
00:47:44
It's not 365 but it's close. Um and they need that hunger. They need that extra sparkle that's going to be the thing
00:47:52
that makes them push you know when it gets really hard. I think the second thing is like they do need to be humble.
00:47:59
Like there's a no ego environment. I'll you know that sweep this the shed saying
00:48:03
like no job is above someone and or someone no one is above any job. Um, and I want that to be, you know, embodied
00:48:12
across everyone in the team, even if they're a senior leader. And the last thing is I think like raw intelligence
00:48:17
is actually really important. It's the ability to solve a problem that you've never seen before or the ability to just
00:48:23
figure something out. And we're in the era of AI. And I think, >> you know, it requires people to adapt
00:48:28
and evolve at pace, which if you're not a switched on person can be hard. How do you find those things with a 20,
00:48:39
30, 60 minute job interview with someone? I mean, everyone can be on LinkedIn and say they're hungry. What is
00:48:44
it? Hungry, humble, smart. >> Correct. >> Yeah. I mean, everyone looks great on LinkedIn.
00:48:48
>> Correct. And that's the thing, Dom, is I don't talk to them for 30 or 60 minutes.
00:48:53
It's a very, very lengthy process for everyone involved. Yeah. >> Well, how do you weed out the weed out
00:49:01
the people that aren't going to aren't going to fit? They may be great, but they're not great for this particular
00:49:05
role at this particular time. >> Yeah. And that's the thing, right, is it's a two-way street. It's kind of like
00:49:10
dating, like you're trying to understand, are you a fit for them and vice versa, but you know, we have a very
00:49:15
lengthy process with many many many steps designed to test different aspects of those things. And you know, it it
00:49:21
weeds out most people, not everyone, you know, sometimes and sometimes you all think you're the right fit for everyone.
00:49:27
Then you get into it and you're like, actually, for these reasons, no. And sometimes those reasons are unforeseen.
00:49:32
So, >> you know, you you sometimes do get it wrong, but >> you know, you can try and increase your
00:49:37
odds of getting it right. >> Yeah. So, what's an average day for you now? What time are you in there? What
00:49:42
are you are you mainly How much of your days is putting out fires? Are you in the weeds or
00:49:46
>> Yes, every day? >> I No day is the same and it depends on what we're working on. So, right now
00:49:52
there's like a massive US expansion project happening. We've got this big promotion going on. We just launched
00:49:58
balls into retail. We've got things happening with new products. We're hiring a couple of roles. So, I'm
00:50:04
actively involved in kind of all of these different things. But, you know, I've got a team of people who also are
00:50:10
very involved in managing and I step in when needed. >> Yeah. Are you are you still over every
00:50:15
decision like micromanaging or are you more like a have you gone from like a player to a coach?
00:50:20
>> I love that analogy and I would say I am a coach in some things but I'm still a
00:50:25
player. Put the boots on. >> Correct. If there be like a gap that I need to fill, I'm like, "Right, sign me
00:50:30
up. I'm I'm on the field. Whatever you need." >> Cuz can you can you be in the weeds and
00:50:36
still be looking at the big picture at the same time or is it can you spend some time in the weeds and then go up on
00:50:42
the hill to look at the big? >> It's a great question and it's very hard to balance. So, it's like that strategy
00:50:47
and execution. It's it's a very fine line and I think that is why it is so important to sort of delegate as many
00:50:53
things as possible and then just have really clear lines of ownership and responsibility so the team know what
00:50:59
they need to bring to me that I need to make a decision on with them or what they can just sort of solve and either
00:51:05
fill me in later or not. Um, but I think as the business grows and evolves and we're sort of building out a leadership
00:51:11
team and that's all been in the last sort of 6 to 12 months. Like 12 months ago there was only a couple of people in
00:51:18
the business and now we've got almost 20. So you can imagine that like as that team matures and we get all the right
00:51:23
people in the right roles that I'll be able to continue to become more of a coach and then you know eventually like
00:51:29
manager of the club and then chairwoman of the board. So, talking about the staff that you've hired. So, yeah, I
00:51:36
sent you a DM about coming on this podcast. You responded fairly quickly saying, "Yeah, I'd love to." And then
00:51:41
pal me on to Rachel, I think, who's your like your chief of staff. >> Yes. >> This is crazy.
00:51:48
>> I know. I've got a person for everything. >> This is so cool though. >> Yeah. You have to. You can't do it all.
00:51:55
>> Have Have you found that difficult? I get the feeling you're um control freakish or or you'd like to do it all
00:52:01
yourself or have have you have you been able to successfully let go of things? >> Yeah, I think it's a gradual transition
00:52:07
and there are things that I've definitely been able to be like let go of and I'm like don't talk to me about
00:52:13
it cuz you know it's better that you handle that. >> But you know there are still some things
00:52:16
that I think are like mission critical to the business that I'm very involved in.
00:52:22
>> The term control freak like I it's not a bad term. I would say I'm probably in
00:52:26
the same position where I sometimes I think ah the the time it'll take me to explain it
00:52:32
I may as well just do it myself or no one no one will be able to do it the way I want it done.
00:52:37
>> Totally. >> Is that something that you've wrestled with or struggled with? >> Absolutely. And I think that's so
00:52:41
natural like when you have really high standards and you are an A type personality and control as a concept
00:52:48
like I have worked through that so much with you know advisers a psychologist like trying to unpack you know where
00:52:54
does that need for control come from like my adviser literally sent me this meditation on control that I do like you
00:53:00
know couple of times a week so it's an active sort of habit to un unwind >> who who are those who's the adviser is
00:53:09
it like a business coach or a business mentor. >> Yeah, I have different people for
00:53:12
different things. So, someone that I talk to a lot about like the people side of the business and I'm very open with
00:53:17
the team like I, you know, need to upskill as fast as the business is growing otherwise I'll become a
00:53:22
bottleneck. So, that's been really pivotal. Someone who's had, you know, a lot of e-commerce experience, has scaled
00:53:28
big businesses, who understands like the industry that we're in. Um and then other people who sort of serve different
00:53:35
roles at different times whether it be you know deep legal expertise or customary expertise or even just other
00:53:41
founders who've been on the same journey. That takes um a lot of discipline I think to to keep these
00:53:47
meetings um because it be very easy to go look I just don't have time for that this week or this month you know I've
00:53:53
got these meetings we got this product launch um yeah how do you um prioritize your time like that
00:54:00
>> and make sure you keep doing these things that you know are going to be for the greater good in the long run. Yeah,
00:54:04
I think I enjoy it. Like I really enjoy as you said before like zooming out looking at the bigger picture and I love
00:54:10
that learning journey like for me most of the fulfillment I get. Yes, the purpose yes elevating women but I also
00:54:16
get deep fulfillment from just learning every day like I have grown so much as a
00:54:21
person and I think when you can see that trajectory it does become rewarding and
00:54:25
once you get that momentum like you want to keep going. M what um what jobs do you think you'll always do and what have
00:54:32
you been quite happy to outsource or get another staff member to do? >> Yeah. So I think one thing I'll always
00:54:39
do is like content is super important. So like just before I came here I was literally filming ads at my house just
00:54:45
like the team wanted me to film an ad on my walking pad. They wanted me to film an ad chopping up broccoli. I was like
00:54:51
what is this? So I'll always be doing I think those kind of things. I love the community building side. So going to
00:54:57
events, meeting customers, like to me that is just the most rewarding part where you get to actually hear the
00:55:03
person in real life telling you how it's helped them. Um and then I think that more strategic piece of like you know
00:55:10
this product next, this geography, this opportunity, this person that's very much I think will always be driven by
00:55:16
me. >> You mentioned just before the team telling you what to film for social media. So you did that all yourself in
00:55:24
the beginning, >> correct? >> Yeah. So now now you've got a team. So they just they tell you what to do and
00:55:29
so you're still the face of the brand. >> Yeah. >> But they tell you what to do. People
00:55:33
that are more experienced than that. >> Yeah. And sometimes I tell them like what I think and I'm quite involved in
00:55:38
that side of the business. But you know, like you were saying before, you can't do everything. And I want to empower
00:55:44
people so that I don't have to write, you know, every piece of content that goes out. And
00:55:48
>> Yeah. And if someone can do it better than you, like why not lean into them? >> Exactly. And and I'm juggling, you know,
00:55:53
this massive fire on my email. I've got someone calling me about something. I'm trying to film this ad. It's like I
00:55:58
don't realistically have time to do everything. >> What the the fires that you're putting
00:56:02
out on a daily sort of basis, what what do they sort of look like? Like what can
00:56:05
that be? >> Anything like, you know, people problems. It could be like the packaging's not to spec. It could be
00:56:12
like the retailer's about to go out of stock and it's like the product is, you know, 5 weeks away. It It could be any
00:56:19
literally anything. Tik Tok hate. Yeah. Every every week is completely different
00:56:24
and you never know what you're gonna get >> when you're really busy. Like how do you
00:56:27
how do you make time for that? Like I'm just I'm probably projecting here. I'll be like, "Oh, for [ __ ] sake, I don't
00:56:32
have time for this. >> I don't have time for this." No. And that and then you've still got the BAU
00:56:37
pieces that are b >> as usual. So the non-reactive things, right? So you part of you is trying to
00:56:43
like proactively do these things and then the other part of you is like reacting to what you need to deal with
00:56:48
in that moment. M you've mentioned Tik Tok a couple of times. You you guys are all over Tik Tok. Um and the Meta
00:56:55
platform as well. Um yeah, is it do you disclose how much you spend on those platforms as your marketing strategy?
00:57:02
>> I >> must be a [ __ ] ton. >> Yeah, it is a lot. So we're in the top 1% of meta ad spenders in the world. Um
00:57:09
>> in the world. >> In the world. Yeah. >> How long did it take to get that right?
00:57:17
So to know that the the spend's going because I've tried a couple of um you know boosting a couple of posts over the
00:57:23
years and it often it feels like you're just pissing against a wall >> or just like throwing mud and
00:57:28
>> certainly. Yeah, it felt like that in the beginning. So I'd say it's an art and a science and a lot of our business
00:57:33
is built around performance marketing and there are very few people who actually have that skill set in New
00:57:39
Zealand and so I've had to become sort of like an expert in that realm and you know brought in people who are experts
00:57:44
and many of them aren't in New Zealand. you know, a couple of our people are in Australia. We're currently hiring people
00:57:48
for that in the US. It's to do it well is very hard. Um, and if you're spending that much money, you absolutely want to
00:57:57
be >> doing it well. >> You do other stuff as well, like traditional stuff. I think I've seen you
00:58:01
on a bus. >> Yeah, I saw my own bus this morning. Yeah. >> Old school. >> Yeah. And I saw um a banner outside the
00:58:08
currently burnt down new world as well, but that was fun. Yeah. So all the places, all the channels, we do a lot of
00:58:15
sampling. So we gave away like over 100,000 free sodas last year to lots of different community groups. Yeah.
00:58:23
Everywhere. >> See things like um like the the posters outside New World or the bars, like how
00:58:30
do you know they're having any sort of impact for the money you're spending? >> Well, sometimes you don't. You try and
00:58:36
get data, but it's not always a perfectly measurable exercise. >> But the social media stuff works for
00:58:41
you. >> Look, I think it's a combination of all the things that work. And interestingly
00:58:45
for us now, word of mouth is extremely high. >> So it's like, you know, >> JJ telling you about the gummies.
00:58:55
>> It wasn't even JJ telling me. They were just sitting on her desk and the other
00:58:58
staff just going around there several times a day to get them. >> It's like I've got a permanent billboard
00:59:03
in your office. >> I know. I'm I'm very familiar with the brand. Um, which is and like to have cut
00:59:07
through in this market, it's like it's no mean feat. So to build a brand and have like what's what's the amount like
00:59:14
something like one in 20 New Zealanders are customers or one in 30? >> Yeah. One in 20 women on like take our
00:59:19
products online, but we sold, you know, millions of cans of soda last year in supermarkets. So that's that's quite
00:59:26
hard to measure. Like I could probably figure out how to get that information, but
00:59:30
>> yeah, a lot of people have got these in their fridge. And um yeah, you mentioned
00:59:34
the word of mouth thing. How important is building a community for a brand? >> Super important. And I did not
00:59:42
understand that at the start. And I think the community we've built was very unintentional.
00:59:48
And the way I think about community is like the customer or the person interested in the brand interfacing with
00:59:54
us verse the customers talking to each other. And I think you can have different kinds of communities and like
01:00:00
not all brands need communities, but for us it's like how you know if you're a vacuum cleaner company like maybe there
01:00:07
is actually Shark Ninja has a great community. Yeah, they do. >> Yeah. And I'm just thinking um I saw a
01:00:14
serial like Neutrorain or something and on the back of the packet it was like follow us on Instagram and I thought why
01:00:19
do I need to follow you on Instagram? >> Exactly. >> But maybe it's quite the community. But
01:00:24
if if if the product is great though, like do you need do you why why do you need a community?
01:00:28
>> Well, I think it's about buying into something bigger than just the product, right? So, a lot of women in New Zealand
01:00:34
really align with the mission and the purpose of the brand and like we do a lot for the community as well. Like I
01:00:39
said, give away, you know, over 100,000 cans. We gave those cans to teachers, hairdressers, nurses, first responders,
01:00:46
like people who are also users of our products. I gave away a female founder grant last year to three female
01:00:54
founders. I did the same one this year. Like all of that I think just like feeds
01:00:58
it's sort of like a two-way exchange of you know they support our brand and in turn like I try and really support them
01:01:04
back. >> Okay. Well, if any aspiring founder or entrepreneur is listening to this like
01:01:09
how how how do they start about building a community when they build their brand?
01:01:13
I think people buy and from and support people, not products or brands. So, I think having a face or someone that they
01:01:22
can relate to and engage with is super helpful. And I think there's also an authenticity piece, right? Like, you
01:01:30
have to show up authentically as you. You know, I genuinely cared about the the purpose of this business. Like, I
01:01:36
think if I was inauthentic, that would potentially not come through or it wouldn't have the same effect. So I
01:01:41
think ideally you do something that's aligned with your values >> and then I think it's just you know reps
01:01:46
on the board like you have to put out a volume of content of engagement. I was saying you know I think I think you're
01:01:52
my first podcast this year but in previous years I've done a ton of them and you know that wasn't necessarily an
01:01:58
intentional strategy but it's like all of these little touch points do add up into something bigger that I think is
01:02:04
brand. Um I I I read somewhere that uh you've set a northstar to make Moody the largest women's mental wellness brand in
01:02:13
the Western world. Yes. >> By 2030. >> Yes. >> Um so you've been going four years.
01:02:19
That's another four years time. Uh what milestones do you need to hit to get there?
01:02:23
>> Are are you on track? Are you ahead of schedule? >> It's a good question. So I think for New
01:02:28
Zealand and Australia, we're doing really well, but I think for us the next frontier is other bigger markets like
01:02:34
North America. M >> so that'll really be the test of like can we scale this beyond our home
01:02:39
markets and really make an impact. >> How do you do that? That seems like an impossible challenge. How do you get
01:02:45
into like a a Walgreens or >> Yeah. >> Like where do where do you even begin with that stuff?
01:02:50
>> I know. And people think of the US and like from my understanding you know it's
01:02:54
not just one big lump of people like there are many subcultures many states many nuances to how you approach it. For
01:03:01
us, we will do online first and try and like build that relationship with the customer and even just understand, you
01:03:07
know, who is our US customer? Maybe it's all men. I don't know. Um, probably not,
01:03:11
but we'll see. And then, you know, eventually once you've got enough sort of traction, you you go into retail.
01:03:19
>> [ __ ] that's exciting. >> Yeah. >> So, by 2030, how old? You'll be like 31 at that point.
01:03:24
>> Around that. Yeah. >> Can you see yourself being like a serial entrepreneur? >> Yeah. I I had Anna Mobra on the podcast
01:03:32
a couple of years ago and she she talking about um Zuru. She said that was just like one mountain that she climbed
01:03:37
and there's many more mountains that she wants to climb. >> Zeal being the current one. Are you the
01:03:42
same? >> Yeah. Moody is chapter one for me. >> You're not going to get too attached.
01:03:48
>> No. >> I think that that'd be a weird feeling. Like I had um another guy on the podcast
01:03:55
last week. It's not out yet. A guy called Grant Baker who was one of the early investors.
01:03:58
>> I just read his book on the weekend. No pit stops. >> Um and he was talking about um the the
01:04:04
sellout to Bicardi of 42 below and he said he thinks it was harder for his business partner Jeff Ross than it was
01:04:10
for him because it was Jeff's baby. >> Jeff started like um making this 42 below vodka in his garage. Um yeah. Will
01:04:16
it be the same for you? >> No. I mean it's hard to project into that, right? Like you don't quite know
01:04:22
what it's like when you know maybe it's not yours anymore and you're you know in
01:04:26
the depths of that. But for me it's like Moody is not my identity. My identity is
01:04:32
like being an entrepreneur, being someone who learns, constantly evolves, you know, solves important problems and
01:04:38
makes an impact. And Moody is the vehicle through which I currently do that and I'm learning so much. But I
01:04:44
think there's other things for me, you know, down the line. I have no idea what those are. Um, but I think that's also
01:04:50
important to build a life outside of the business and that's, you know, now I've
01:04:53
got friends and I really invest into my relationships and I've got hobbies and other pursuits. You know, even like the
01:05:00
grant and giving back to female founders like that doesn't always have to be through
01:05:03
>> Moody. You the stuff you're learning with Moody, it's like a blueprint that you
01:05:08
can use for other businesses, I guess, right? >> Yeah. >> It's very exciting. How how would you
01:05:14
feel if you sold like got an amazing offer, you sold it and then um the company just runs into the ground like
01:05:20
they do things that are just absolutely mad like you know the ethos of the brand
01:05:24
that you've built. You know what's right and what's wrong and they're doing every
01:05:28
sort of left turn when you do a right turn. How would that feel for you? >> Yeah, I mean look, you try and avoid
01:05:33
that scenario by you know having things in place. I mean ideally having the right partner and it may be that you're
01:05:39
still very involved like for us in the US there's a possibility that you know it's not going to be me bootstrapping
01:05:45
the business the whole way to being you know the biggest women's wellness brand in the world like I may have to bring in
01:05:50
people on that journey and you know I think it's like trying to bring in the right people but ultimately like I treat
01:05:56
everything as a learning experience and you can always solve you know the problems that you're faced with and and
01:06:01
make the best out of any situation. What sort of um u missteps or mistakes have you made along the way so far? Have
01:06:08
there been any standouts? >> Um >> I mean they're all learning experience. Like there's um yeah, there's that
01:06:14
saying failure is the stepping stone to success. >> Have there been any like standout
01:06:19
howling sort of cockups along the way? >> Yeah, I I think there's a lot. I think
01:06:25
the biggest ones are more the things that I didn't do versus the things that I did, if that makes sense. So, it's
01:06:31
like I probably, not probably, I did not hire people, you know, senior enough in
01:06:36
the business fast enough. Like I was trying to play catchup, you know, a bit too late in the piece. I probably should
01:06:44
have learned a lot more about, you know, being a leader, being a manager, how to
01:06:48
hire the right people, how to empower them earlier. I think I could have launched new products into new channels
01:06:56
faster. you know, everything's better in hindsight, but I'm like, "Oh, I should have launched this in, you know, year
01:07:00
two. That would have been a good idea." So, you know, there's always, as you say, learnings, but I think it's like
01:07:05
some of the things I didn't do could have turned out to be >> Yeah. So, hindsight things.
01:07:10
>> Yeah. >> I've got a card here called general founder questions because I figured
01:07:14
there'll be a lot of people that are watching or listening to this podcast that are like curious to sort of follow
01:07:18
in your footsteps. >> I hope so. >> Um, how important is having a personal brand?
01:07:26
I would say in the era of AI now very important to get cut through. >> Yeah. Because I think there's going to
01:07:31
be a lot of sea of sameness and it's like how do you stand out? >> For listeners or viewers who feel stuck
01:07:38
between a safe job and a risky passion project. What's your advice for making the leap
01:07:43
>> or you didn't make the leap? You just >> you didn't have the transition period.
01:07:47
>> No, I didn't. It was a very Yeah. I I would say it depends on your stage of life, right? Like I didn't have
01:07:53
dependence. I didn't have a mortgage. I didn't have, you know, aging parents that I was caring for. So, people have
01:07:58
different circumstances and ultimately, you know, what that is. But what I would
01:08:03
say is there's no better time than the present. And I I caveat that with the first piece. But, you know, you're never
01:08:09
going to feel like you have enough experience, enough money, enough confidence that it's the perfect timing
01:08:14
to go and do the thing that you want to do. So, >> from that perspective, I would say, you
01:08:18
know, jump in. But from the other perspective, I'd say just be a bit rational around what your obligations
01:08:23
are. Yeah. Yeah. Part of what you're talking about there, I think, is like procrastination, which I think is I
01:08:28
think a lot of the time that's based around fear. E >> absolutely. >> But the circumstances are never going to
01:08:32
be 100% right. The ducks are never going to be in a row. >> No. And it's it's easier for me to say
01:08:37
that now having looked at the the success that Moody has had to date and feel confident that yes, I would have
01:08:43
made that same decision. If I was sitting here and the business had not succeeded,
01:08:48
I don't think I would have regretted the decision I'd made. M >> you know if the business stopped
01:08:53
succeeding tomorrow I definitely wouldn't have regretted it. >> I mean hypotheticals are kind of
01:08:59
pointless but say um say Moody was um like an absolute failure. Um do you think you would have just um gone onto a
01:09:06
job you know sort of reverse engineered got back to one of those jobs gone into law or do you think you would have tried
01:09:12
again with something else in the entrepreneurial space? >> I think it depends how far into the
01:09:16
journey you are. like now there is no way I could probably work for anyone else.
01:09:22
In fact, there is no way. Um, working with other people, but no, like I couldn't be an employee per se. I'd be
01:09:29
an I'd be a terrible employee. I'd be like trying to run the business and they'd be like, "Pipe down." Yeah. Um,
01:09:35
so I think now that would be very hard to turn back. you know, maybe a couple of months in, I could see myself, you
01:09:44
know, trying to then pivot and take the the easier option. But I think once you get into the journey of like you've
01:09:51
really aligned your work with purpose, you are chasing that dream that you have, you just make it work and you find
01:09:57
a way. >> Yeah. You've learned so many skills in the last four years. >> Um, what's the biggest mistake first-
01:10:05
time founders make when launching something? Oh, you wouldn't know. >> Yeah. No, no,
01:10:12
>> you're one from one. >> I was a first time founder. >> Um, >> it depends. I think it's so context
01:10:18
specific. Like I would say one of the best things I did was I didn't take on outside money investment because it
01:10:25
meant that I had full control like for the better or for the worse. So I was able to make all of the decisions and
01:10:31
either get the upside of that or the downside of that. And I think when you are like in that driver's seat,
01:10:37
>> you learn more than if you were maybe relying on other people who' perhaps done it before.
01:10:42
>> But equally, you know, there are people who start tech companies where it's not
01:10:46
realistic for them to just bootstrap it out the gate. >> Um, but I think you can actually start
01:10:50
quite small and it can be imperfect, right? Like I said, I changed so much of the business since the very start
01:10:57
because you just want to get that like, you know, perfection paralysis and you're never going to reach that when
01:11:02
you're not, you know, 5 years in. >> Mhm. >> And I think this community you build,
01:11:06
they like being along for the journey as well. >> Oh, yeah. >> In the different stages,
01:11:10
>> they love looking back and thinking, gosh, that was Bundy. >> That's what >> Bundy like a little just like a little
01:11:16
bit like >> Tik Tok thing >> maybe. I feel like just like a little bit sh like >> please b please b please b please b
01:11:22
please b please b please b please b please b please b please please b please b please b please b please b please b
01:11:22
please b please b please b please b please b please and there's people that like um if someone starts becoming a
01:11:26
moody customer now they're like yeah well I've been I've been having it for years.
01:11:29
>> I know. Well sometimes I find the OG fans and they're like I knew you when the packaging was gold. I'm like wow
01:11:34
you've been around. >> Wow. What what um has remained exactly the same since day one?
01:11:40
>> I'd say the values. Like I always always try and do what's right by the customer.
01:11:44
I care so deeply about that and we will make trade-offs that you know might not make sense commercially sometimes but
01:11:51
ultimately they are better for the business long term. >> Oh, so just a thought. So we talked
01:11:57
before about um people that weren't necessarily supportive for for the right reason or the wrong reasons early on
01:12:02
that tried to talk you out of it. How many of them have come back and and admitted they were wrong?
01:12:07
>> I'd say admitted is a big word. Um but definitely come around to be very supportive. Yeah.
01:12:13
>> Right. Most some >> yeah I'd say most I mean you naturally like in the sort of early years of your
01:12:19
20ies you grow apart and you grow towards different people so that's a natural kind of evolution but
01:12:24
>> yeah I would I mean we've had a lot of success that's quite I guess objective
01:12:30
now and yeah >> that's good to hear. >> So I I was sort of partially expecting you to say not one
01:12:38
>> not one but some oh that's cool. Oh, and they love the product. So, how can you not?
01:12:44
>> Okay. Um, how do you know uh whether an idea is genuinely good versus just exciting?
01:12:52
>> Actually, that's a good question. And that would have been good for you because like I said before, I I don't
01:12:56
know how you spotted a gap in the market, but you clearly did. So, you have this idea, you're excited about it,
01:13:00
but how do how do you know it's it's got legs beyond you? >> That's really hard. And this is the
01:13:06
point of when you've got the data and the data is not necessarily backing up what your thought process is. I think
01:13:11
that's the gut instinct. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs sort of refine that over years. And you have to just jump in
01:13:19
and test it. You know, maybe don't bet the business or the house, but give it enough of a go to understand like is
01:13:25
this going to get traction or not? Because sometimes you truly don't know until you're in the market. And it's
01:13:31
just having the courage to be like, "Yep, that was actually a failure and my gut instinct was wrong." But I'd say
01:13:36
nine times out of 10 when I've had that sense, it's it's ended up going really well.
01:13:43
>> If there's um a 17year-old listening to this podcast um who's like you 10 years
01:13:49
ago when you were reading books by Michael Hill and Richard Branson, maybe they're listening to founder podcasts or
01:13:54
business podcasts instead. Uh where should where should they begin >> on Claude? It's like the best time ever
01:14:02
to start a business. And you ask me, you know, would I have done the 5 years of a
01:14:06
law degree and a business degree? Like no, like if I was 17 now, I I would just start the business because you can.
01:14:12
You've got everything at your fingertips. It's amazing. Like the resources, everything I've taught myself
01:14:17
has been from YouTube, podcasts, books, and Claude. >> Yeah. There's never been more accessible
01:14:25
information. No, >> that's right. The barriers to entry are the lowest. >> Well, he he passed away earlier this
01:14:30
year. Did you ever get get to meet Sir Michael Hill? >> No, I didn't. >> Did you Did you ever get to message him
01:14:35
or or tell him about about his book and the impact it had on you? >> No. >> Oh, that's sad.
01:14:39
>> I wish I had. Yeah. >> Oh, you should reach out to Lady Christine. I'm sure she'd love to hear
01:14:43
that. >> I know. Yeah. >> Cuz it seems like the the way you talked about his book, like I brought up both
01:14:49
those books, Losing My Virginity, the Richard Branson one >> and uh the Michael Hill one. What was
01:14:54
that one called? He's had a couple of them now. >> Bigger. >> Yeah, >> it seems like it's still something that
01:14:58
sort of sits in the back of your mind these days. >> It is. And I have this journal like that
01:15:03
I wrote when I was 17 with all the goals for all of the different decades of my life. And to this day, I like fly with
01:15:09
it everywhere in my carry-on bag because I'm like, if you know, the house burns down, if uh, you know, the luggage gets
01:15:16
lost, I'm like, I cannot lose this this journal because everything I wrote a decade ago is like still so aligned with
01:15:23
today. And I I wrote all of that while reading the book. Like it was a very kind of interactive process.
01:15:29
>> Do you still update it and write new goals? >> Yeah, every six months I like do a six
01:15:34
uh Yeah. six-month review and then I set new goals every year within sort of the
01:15:38
the 10 year time frame. Yeah. >> What What are your flaws? >> Me. I suck at doing the dishes. So, we
01:15:47
did this like team offsite. I took the team to Queenstown. We're all in this big Airbnb and they were like, "Wow."
01:15:54
And now in the office, like bless them, the team just like kind of do my dishes for me, which I try to like not get them
01:16:00
to do. When was the last time you had like um a Big Mac or a a two-piece chicken box or
01:16:07
>> No, I No, I'm not a big fast food girly. No. Um >> So, you you live the moody lifestyle.
01:16:15
You're very very You mentioned the sauna before. >> I'm very disciplined. >> Yeah, very disciplined. But I like that.
01:16:21
That is Yeah, I enjoy that. But sometimes I do something a bit rogue. >> Yeah. >> Have you ever been drunk? Like wine get
01:16:29
wasted? Yeah, I was very lightweight. So, I actually don't drink at the moment, but um yeah, I had many many a
01:16:36
good time, especially towards the end of high school. Yeah, I went to boarding school. So, it was it was really really
01:16:42
fun. >> By the way, I'm not glorifying that or anything. Like there's like discipline
01:16:46
is the it's the key to freedom. >> It is. It is. And it's like >> you get so much and also sobriety, you
01:16:52
get so much more done. Like there's so much more functional hours in the day and week.
01:16:55
>> Yeah. I I don't miss it. And you know, I I kind of choose hard. Like there's a
01:16:59
lot of kind of commentary around that at the moment. And I think especially my generation, I don't want to throw us all
01:17:04
under the bus, but I do think there's this tendency of like we want everything instantly. We don't have to you put in
01:17:10
the hard >> graph to get what we want to get. Like we should just have it, you know, not
01:17:15
necessarily on a silver platter, but it should feel a bit easier. And what I've learned is like anything worthwhile
01:17:20
having is really hard. So I think to create, you know, an extraordinary outcome, you need extraordinary inputs.
01:17:27
>> Yeah. Delayed gratification. There's not enough of that these days. And the saying I really like is um hard choice,
01:17:32
easy life. Easy choice, hard life. >> Absolutely. >> So yeah, choose your hard. >> Yeah.
01:17:36
>> Um Yeah. But it's it's not I don't know. I suppose it's not not a very cool or
01:17:41
sexy thing for someone in their 20s to have when that's seen as sort of like the party years or
01:17:47
>> Yeah. >> Smart. But look at what you're building. >> Yeah. And it's just about choosing it.
01:17:51
Like I have friends that you know do get to party but then they also work their 9
01:17:54
to 5 job and they you know part of them wishes that they could have what I currently have now. So it's it's
01:18:00
different for everyone and like I wouldn't have walked a different path. Like I'm so happy that I've chosen the
01:18:05
path I have. It is extremely hard but I wouldn't you know opt to do something else. M suppose it depends what um what
01:18:12
makes you happy and for some people it's um the you know the endorphin rush or the serotonin rush of of you know a
01:18:17
night out and for others it's just like making making gains or becoming 1% better every day or whatever it happens
01:18:23
to be clearly you're in that group >> and this was my dream like I this is what I wanted when I was 17 you know and
01:18:30
>> I get to do this every day. >> When did you last have a day off? >> Uh I took the weekend off that's just
01:18:37
gone. Yeah. I've tried to get a bit more disciplined around weekends. >> What did you do?
01:18:44
>> So, I've got a brick for my phone. I don't know if you've heard amazing. I'm going to be like the number one
01:18:49
influencer for the brick. Um, but I've got so many people on it. I even like got one person in my team to buy one the
01:18:55
other day cuz she was turning into me. But yeah, so you break your phone. Oh, I did like sauna, massage, gym, lots of
01:19:01
exercise, healthy food, sore friends, just like all the things that fill my cup back up.
01:19:06
>> Yeah. Have you had a holiday in the last four years? >> I have. So, every year at the start of
01:19:11
the year, for the last two years, I've I've started taking a like a 7-day break where I go fully offline, go somewhere
01:19:19
just by myself and really like recharge. >> Is that difficult? >> Not anymore. >> It's very much needed.
01:19:27
>> Yeah. >> If I was you, I think I'd find that impossibly difficult. >> Yeah. No, I trust the team. The first
01:19:34
year I did it, I came back and they're like >> like everything's gone up, like sales
01:19:39
are going crazy. And I was like, "Wow, should I just take another week off?" Yeah.
01:19:45
>> Yeah. That would that be a goal like for in the next couple of years to like be
01:19:49
able to take a month off and go around Europe or do something fun and just completely maybe go online for like an
01:19:54
hour a day and answer some emails or >> No, I mean I think like a successful business ultimately has to be able to
01:19:59
run without the founder. So if I can't do that, like I think that's a red flag on the environment that I'm creating. So
01:20:05
I absolutely like I would love to be, you know, in Europe for a summer, not online. Like personally I do enjoy, you
01:20:12
know, many aspects of work when I'm in the right headsp space. But >> I think it is very important that that's
01:20:17
a possibility. And if if you like if you enjoy the job >> Yeah. >> then then why is it wrong to work
01:20:25
weekends or you know what not take four or five weeks and you'll leave a year. >> Totally. But I think it's like as soon
01:20:32
as you feel that resistance which you know I sometimes do of like I just I don't want to log back online you know
01:20:39
tonight and it's 9:00 p.m. >> Yeah. >> I think it is actually quite important to listen to that inner voice and and
01:20:46
not push. I got some more founder questions. Okay. >> Hey, these are great insights, by the
01:20:51
way. Thanks for sharing. >> Of course. >> Um, yeah, a lot of people will probably
01:20:54
listen to this and think you're, you know, like you, I don't know. I was about to say psycho. I don't know if
01:20:59
psycho is the word, but >> yeah, sucker for punishment, >> but it's um when I had Sir Peter Beck on
01:21:03
the podcast, he said, he said it's a joke within his family, like all these family photos of the Becks at Stonehenge
01:21:08
or the Becks at outside Buckingham Palace and he's on his phone doing anything else, you know?
01:21:13
>> Yeah. Look, I think you don't want it to infiltrate too much into your life to
01:21:18
where you don't have, you know, really important relationships and you don't look after your body and you don't get
01:21:22
enough sleep and, you know, you can sacrifice a lot, but you don't want to sacrifice everything. And ultimately,
01:21:27
like I said, like I may not be doing this job at one point in time. So, I don't want this to become my entire
01:21:32
world. >> Also, the stuff that you're doing outside of work, like to be the face of
01:21:37
a brand like this, you you you kind of have to look healthy, don't you? You have to be healthy
01:21:41
>> and and to show up as the leader I want to show up as. I can't be, you know, aggressive and have a short fuse and
01:21:47
sleepd deprived. >> What is the biggest myth about entrepreneurship? I think it's that glamour like you see
01:21:56
and I think it's maybe more prolific in men but I think a bit in women of like the fast car, the private jet,
01:22:03
>> you know, the designer bag >> that I think and for many people who are entrepreneurs that's just and who are
01:22:10
really successful, that's just sort of the byproduct. That's not like the reason that they've done it.
01:22:15
>> Yeah. >> What would be well if you were going to live that live that life, what would be
01:22:18
the first thing that you'd buy? like like an er bag or you know >> is there is there something in the back
01:22:25
of your mind that you're like when I reach this milestone I'm going to treat myself to this
01:22:31
>> I have a lot of friends who are in that camp now like you know the Hermes the
01:22:35
Porsche the the whatever I don't know I think for me honestly the and this might
01:22:43
not even sound legit but for me it was like to actually give back was so exciting Like I did that grant before I
01:22:51
bought, you know, anything of great value. >> That was like such a cool moment. And
01:22:57
for me, that was honestly like probably the biggest highlight of last year. And I'm about to go through all of the
01:23:02
applications for this year. And I'm so excited. I've like blacked out a whole day. I'm like, that's going to be the
01:23:08
best feeling. >> Yeah. What's one skill every young entrepreneur should obsess over
01:23:13
developing? I think resilience because it is a skill. It's like a muscle that you build
01:23:28
>> and I'm just thinking like inevitably in entrepreneurship you're going to have so
01:23:32
many people tell you no. You're going to have so many failures. >> I hear a no and I'm like
01:23:38
>> okay let's negotiate you know like a no right now. >> You have to be like that. Like I pitched
01:23:43
these into retail first answer was like hard no. like not even a slither of the door open. No, and you know, managed to
01:23:50
get them in and it's going really well. So, you you have to turn negative situations into positive outcomes.
01:23:57
>> It's amazing how once you've heard it a few times, it loses all power, right?
01:24:01
>> Totally. Sorry, was that a yes? >> No, but I sort of found like the the worst thing you can hear is not actually
01:24:07
a no. It's like an email that goes unresponded. That's even worse than a no. I think
01:24:12
>> that's just an invitation for a follow-up. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's like you seriously it
01:24:18
is I and I have no ego. I will like we're still trying to get a few things over the line. I will go and sit in the
01:24:25
waiting rooms of these places and they could be a 5hour plane ride away. I don't care and I'll just wait and I'm
01:24:32
just like I'm I'm here for it. >> Yeah. And then you know you come home without a successful outcome and then
01:24:39
you go back again. >> Yeah. That's it. Having a sleep and then just waking up with the same enthusiasm
01:24:46
again and again and again. >> Yeah. >> It's not for the faint, is it? >> No, I don't think it's for everyone.
01:24:55
>> Yeah. Know, you have to be built from something different, I think. >> Yeah. >> You can you can hone that over time, but
01:25:01
>> Yeah. >> But it's going to be [ __ ] hard work. >> I think that's that's what maybe
01:25:08
Yeah. you were talking before about the um yeah the social media side of entrepreneurship and you know the hash
01:25:15
hustle culture or whatever. Um but the reality is like it's a sexy phrase and a nice hashtag but it's hard work.
01:25:20
>> Yeah. And it's just you know like you said it's me on my laptop every New Year's Eve like me on my laptop every
01:25:26
you know Saturday night. It it's it's not that glamorous most of the time. >> Yeah. Yeah. People see the the bit of
01:25:34
the iceberg that's poking out of the water but they don't see the big bit underneath the water. Yeah.
01:25:38
>> Uh, what's the best investment a young founder can make in themselves? >> I think it's mentoring or coaching. So,
01:25:45
I pay for a lot of that that I get and I invest heavily. Like people probably like our accountant probably sees this
01:25:52
on the P&L and is like, "What the hell is this expense? It's exorbitant." But I think it's there is huge value in that.
01:25:59
Um, you can learn so much from other people who are sort of in the right place at the right time to give you that
01:26:04
advice. >> How do you find a good one though? There's so many. It feels like there's
01:26:07
so many like life coaches or employment coaches on LinkedIn. >> Yes. >> How do you know who's legit and who's a
01:26:13
snake oil salesman? >> Find someone who has done exactly what you want to achieve and not like and
01:26:20
legitimately a lot of these people like I've built a seven eight whatever figure
01:26:23
business like show me the outcomes that you've had ideally like in the same thing that I've done. You know, whether
01:26:30
that is build a team of 100 people who you've created a really successful culture for, you've then moved roles
01:26:36
four times and they've followed you into those roles. Like that for me is you must be a great people leader or someone
01:26:43
who's had, you know, a 9 figure exit. Well, you must be a great business person in that, you know, line of work
01:26:48
to be able to create an outcome like that. >> Yeah, I've asked you a couple of questions today, money related, just
01:26:54
sort of like tinkering around the edges and you you you haven't um answered them. And I I suppose there's two types
01:26:59
of people. There's the types on LinkedIn that say, "I created a, you know, a billion dollar business." And then
01:27:04
there's there's people like you that are a little bit cy about it. Is that just that just a personal preference thing?
01:27:09
>> Yeah, it's interesting. Like I >> I've never felt a need to share that. And I think because I own the business,
01:27:16
it becomes quite tied to your like personal financial success. Whereas if you've gone and raised, you know,
01:27:23
millions and millions of dollars and you own a slice of that pie and no one necessarily knows, you know, what amount
01:27:28
of the pie you own, you know, it's a bit more opaque. Whereas for me, it's like,
01:27:33
yeah, Moody is is my, you know, biggest asset. And >> yeah. >> Yeah. It's interesting. I suppose it's
01:27:39
like a personal a personal choice sort of thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh what's one sentence you want every
01:27:46
young founder listening to remember? I love the quote by Theodore Roosevelt about being in the arena. Have you heard
01:27:54
that? >> The man in the arena. >> Yeah, the man in the arena. And I just think if you can print that out and
01:27:58
stick it on your wall, you know, go Google it. Like I got it engraved into a bracelet for Moody's third birthday. And
01:28:04
it keeps showing up for me in different places. like I always see it and I think
01:28:07
it's like a little bit of a sign to just stay in there, you know, stay hungry, humble, and just keep giving it your
01:28:15
best shot and don't worry about what all the critics say. >> Yeah, it's about um yeah, silencing the
01:28:21
noise and the critics. And the funny thing is written well before the internet, well before social media. Um
01:28:26
and I don't think it's ever been more applicable than what it is now with all the external noise of social media.
01:28:32
>> Absolutely. Yeah. >> And I love the ending of it as well. Well, it's like no matter what the
01:28:36
outcome is, you know, in triumph or defeat, it's sort of at least you went and gave it a go. And I think for me,
01:28:41
that's how I I want to live my life. >> Yeah. And you are. Couple of questions to finish with. Best and worst habits.
01:28:49
>> Best habit is I wake up and exercise every day. >> Do you What time do you have a strict
01:28:53
morning routine? >> Not really, but before I start work, I like to exercise otherwise it doesn't
01:28:58
happen. And then worst habit, I do have a tendency to get like sucked into the social media vortex late at
01:29:07
night, hence the brick. >> Yeah, don't we all? >> My uh my my partner, she's got like a
01:29:15
time limit thing on her phone >> and I'll see over her shoulder. She'll be on um Instagram and it'll come up.
01:29:20
She'll just swipe it away and keep going. >> She needs a brick. >> It's good. Yeah.
01:29:25
>> Um when was the last time you cried? Maybe last week we had like an acute like PR Tik Tok
01:29:40
hate moment and I think I think I cried then. I don't I don't cry a lot but I do
01:29:44
like I'll tear up if something's quite overwhelming and I think that would and I honestly I actually think then
01:29:51
thinking about for the team and the impact on them that makes me really sad. >> Can you remember what the thing was last
01:29:56
week? Oh, they were saying our giveaway was a scam. >> Oh, >> yeah. >> Oh, the car.
01:30:01
>> Yeah. >> Why would this Why would that bother you when you know it's not? >> Well, no.
01:30:06
>> Is it someone that had a big following or a big >> I think it's the pile on of like, oh, I
01:30:10
hate that brand or oh, I tied their products. It's that that's Yeah. Yeah. You don't necessarily read into the
01:30:16
legitimacy of it. It's more just like it's really sad that there's, you know, 50,000 people out there that,
01:30:22
>> you know, hate which is a strong word, >> me, the brand, the product, whatever.
01:30:26
Yeah, >> it's Yeah, it I mean it is what it is, but it's annoying that people can say
01:30:31
that and then they'll find out that it's they're wrong, but they're not going to
01:30:34
go and correct themselves or, you know, just >> No, no, you can never win. Yeah.
01:30:40
>> What are you most afraid of? >> Um most afraid of I think being lonely is is a fear of mine. like I I always want
01:30:53
to try and have people around me who I really like deeply connect with and I do think that can be hard for people who
01:30:59
you know maybe are achieving a lot in their career and like quite intense you know personality types. So for me it's
01:31:05
like really nurturing those relationships with people for life like you know I want to have really strong
01:31:11
like family and friend relationships you know my >> Are you really worried about that? So
01:31:17
you're consciously trying to make sure that's not a thing. I I think so because I think it's easy to become obsessive
01:31:21
over your work, right? And you know, I think of a moment where like say my sister's calling me but I'm dealing with
01:31:27
a big problem like I'll pick up that call because actually at the end of the day that probably is the more important
01:31:32
thing. >> Yeah. >> Regret >> probably the university like I >> going >> Yeah. for for 5 years and the student
01:31:45
loan that followed. Um, yeah, it was a lot. >> Do you when you hire at Moody like I
01:31:50
feel like most ads on C or Z will have this like minimum requirements uh BCOM or whatever the degree happens to be.
01:31:58
You guys have that. You're not fixated on >> No. Our head of operations told me the
01:32:02
other day. She's like, I studied marketing. And I was like, did you? I clearly did not look very closely at
01:32:08
your CV past a certain point. Um, no, I I don't care for that stuff, but but more like experience in the line of work
01:32:14
is helpful. Yeah, that's important. >> But I suppose um even though the the piece of paper you got from five years
01:32:20
at university, like if you're not doing much with it, it's gathering dust. But I
01:32:24
suppose it gave you some life skills and there are pros that you did get out of it.
01:32:28
>> Totally. Totally. And like I said, I made the most of that time, but it's like could that time have been spent,
01:32:33
you know, on something else? But, you know, everything's better in hindsight. >> Oh, relax. You got years up your sleeve.
01:32:38
>> Exactly. >> Um who knows the real you? >> I'd say my friends and family. Yeah.
01:32:44
Yeah, especially the ones who knew me before Moody. Those people are really really special to me because it's like
01:32:51
they've just seen me the whole way through this this journey. And it's really easy now. You meet people and
01:32:56
it's like, you know, wow, you've achieved so much and that's so cool. And you know, not that people are
01:33:00
inauthentic, but the people who knew you the whole way along, I think, are just Yeah, they're keepers.
01:33:05
>> Your day ones. >> Yeah. Well, speaking of those people, friends and family, um if they were in the next
01:33:11
room talking about you behind your back and they had to come up with um three individual words to describe you, what
01:33:16
would you like those words to be? >> I'd say ambitious is number one. Aim high. >> We've got that impression. Yeah. Yeah.
01:33:25
Um I think the second is caring. Like I really care about a lot of people in my life, even the team. Like I I have a lot
01:33:31
of care for people. Gosh. The third I'd say disciplined. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Hard worker.
01:33:42
>> Got it. It's serving you well. Um, is legacy something you think about at all?
01:33:46
>> It is. Yeah. >> Yeah. Both personally and for the brand. >> Yeah, it it really is because I think
01:33:52
the whole mission for the business truly started out of this just like deep purpose I have of of helping women like
01:33:59
to elevate them in their career or their life. and I did that in university and I
01:34:03
haven't really gone into that but for me that was just like the most rewarding thing that didn't feel like work and
01:34:08
then I touched on the grant and like again it's going to be the highlight of my year this year. So, how can I keep
01:34:13
doing more things like that that ultimately are just going to have a really big impact hopefully on on other
01:34:20
people's lives? And the winners of last year's grant, like the stories that they
01:34:24
have told me and the things that they have shared with me of how that, you know, relatively small amount of money
01:34:29
actually changed the trajectory of their life and their family's life is like something I would just want to do way
01:34:35
more of in my lifetime. >> Yeah. G giving and giving back feels really good. Eh,
01:34:42
>> absolutely. And I've always been that person who just I hate inequity. Like I
01:34:45
really I remember being a kid and like I went to San Francisco and I saw homeless
01:34:50
people like crowds and crowds of them and I just felt so deeply uncomfortable with like why are these people in this
01:34:56
situation? How has that come to be? Um, and even now like we give a lot of product to women's. We do a lot that we
01:35:02
do behind the scenes and to me that stuff is so important and I just >> Yeah, I think I'm a real a real empath.
01:35:10
>> Did you grow up religious? Are you from a religious family? No. >> No. >> No.
01:35:14
>> But I think giving back has always been like a very core value for my family.
01:35:19
>> Yeah. You just seem to have like quite good quite good values and quite a good
01:35:22
um sort of moral compass which a lot of religious people have. But I suppose, you know, a lot of people have that
01:35:26
without the need to be religious as well. >> Yeah. >> Are you proud of yourself?
01:35:31
>> Yeah, I'd say so. Yeah. >> Well, you should be. >> Yeah. >> You've done some [ __ ]
01:35:35
>> Yeah. And it is a weird feeling. Like people say, "Oh, you must be so proud."
01:35:40
And there are moments where you do stop and look back like certain milestones, but for the most part truly it is like
01:35:48
this shifting goalpost syndrome. We're always thinking about, you know, what could be bigger or better. The other day
01:35:52
I was just scrolling our social media page like way back into the archives and it was me, you know, 4 years ago filming
01:35:59
content and I was like, "Wow, I have come so far." You know, the product looks different. I'm way better at what
01:36:06
I do. The brand has just evolved so much and blossomed into something really special.
01:36:12
>> Yeah. And you built this team and created jobs for people, >> which is which is cool.
01:36:16
>> We have six manufacturers, couple of warehouses. I think we're like one of the biggest
01:36:23
users of NZ Post's e-commerce service. Like we, you know, we actually are having an impact, I think.
01:36:28
>> All right. So, it's um 3:48 p.m. on a Wednesday afternoon. Um what happens now? You you go home, you're back to the
01:36:35
office. >> Yeah. Going to go home, log back in online, and see what's been happening.
01:36:41
>> Hey, well, Kate Gatfield Jeff, this has been great. >> Thanks for having me. >> Thanks for um making this your only
01:36:48
podcast for 2026. >> It's an honor. Heat. Heat.