00:00:00
This was a business that at that time was turning over 12 million a year. I'm going to make this a billion-dollar
00:00:03
business. And I was naive enough to think, "Yeah, it sounds like a good idea." We did turn it into a billion
00:00:07
dollar business. As we went on, we got better and better at doing that. We bought in Booto bought 56 companies. I
00:00:12
just this year bought my 50th Ferrari. If you woke up tomorrow and all the money and all the cars were gone, who
00:00:18
would you be? >> I'd be a loser, wouldn't I? I wouldn't like that. >> What's the hard truth about
00:00:23
entrepreneurship that no one talks about enough? >> Well, the risk, isn't it? The risk and
00:00:27
the worry. Does New Zealand have a a cultural problem with ambition and and wealth?
00:00:30
>> Oh, I I think yes. Surgeon goes, some really bad news. You got cancer. And >> what's that like staring death in the
00:00:35
face? >> I've been many times where I thought that's it. You know, it's I'm not going
00:00:39
to recover from this, but somehow you do. You You have to believe things that normal people wouldn't believe. You
00:00:45
believe in crazy things and they do come true, you know. >> Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is
00:00:52
the center of performance. Whenever there's a top performance in New Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:00:57
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that for days. That's the boys who got the Holland one in To.
00:01:05
Hey Finn, how's the performance going? >> Top tier. >> Nice. This is our generate room. In
00:01:10
here, you'll find our top performers helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver investments. Get in here, Finn.
00:01:16
Maximize. Generate. >> Putting performance first. >> Grant Baker, welcome to my podcast.
00:01:21
Yeah, thanks very much and thanks for having me. >> First of all, can I can I say I'm very
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very disappointed you got dropped off in Alexus. Um, your brand new book which you've got out, no pit stops. Every
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single photo in the middle is one of you and a Ferrari. You're you're a massive Ferrari fanboy and you didn't even rock
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up in one today. >> You didn't even offer me parking. What What could I do? >> How many do you have?
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>> I've got seven at the moment and um yeah, two more on the way. So, two in production. And you you share quite a
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bit of your um love of Ferraris on your social media page. Um then you've got like a hell of a man cave. It's
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impressive. >> Yeah, it's very Ferrari oriented. So yeah, I love the brand and I've got in
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the man cave lots of memorabilia there as well. So not just cars. Like I keep I don't know how many Formula 1's I've
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been to. Possibly hundreds. But I've got every every tag that I ever had there and got a lot of Formula 1 driver crash
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helmets and those sort of things. So it's a little like a museum really. Is it is it a museum just for you or do you
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do you show other people around? How how open are you with it? >> Well, definitely not public but you know
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sort of good causes. I I have people around. Yeah. So, you know, kids charities and yeah, that's how the book
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came about really. I got the entrepreneurs organization in there and they said you should write a book and um
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that's where it all started. Yeah. >> So, who is Grant Baker? >> Uh where do you want me to start?
00:02:44
>> No. Well, if someone if someone someone asked you that um yeah, how would you
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answer it? There's a chat GPT answer. Um >> yeah, >> but no one's in a better position to
00:02:53
answer that question than you. >> Well, I'd just say I'm a businessman and a car guy. Really? Yeah.
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>> Um if you woke up tomorrow and all the money and all the cars were gone, who would you be?
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>> It's tricky because that really is my identity. You know what I would have worked for? I'd be a loser, wouldn't I?
00:03:10
I wouldn't like that. Who is Grant Baker behind the public image? >> I'm pretty family oriented. So, you
00:03:17
know, my wife and Don and I, we're not party animals or anything like that. We're pretty stay at home. Um, have
00:03:22
dinner at 5:00, you know, go to bed early, all that sort of thing. We're pretty into our kids, so we have got a
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daughter from first marriage and then a couple of boys who have grown up now, but
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>> we still kind of like to be involved in their lives. >> Yeah. So, and they they still want to be
00:03:35
involved in your life. >> Yeah, they do. We we take them on holiday and stuff. So, cuz we pay they
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they like coming with us. Oh, it's like the dangling carrot, isn't it? No, but but but still, I think it's it says a
00:03:45
lot if your adult kids want to hang out with you, cuz even the the lure of a free holiday isn't enough to put up with
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mom and dad if you don't like them. >> Yeah, that's right. No, I think we get on pretty well with our kids. Um, one of
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one of them is overseas. One one of them lives in Phoenix, so >> far away. So, we always go out there a
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couple of times a year and make sure we catch up with him and his wife. >> So, you got this new book out. Um, no
00:04:06
pit spot. No, no, no pit stops. Um, why a book and why now? you you've largely been like under the radar and sort of
00:04:12
behind the scenes of um your business ventures through your life. Why why come out with a book now in your late 60s?
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>> Um well it's it did start off with that entrepreneurs evening I had at the man
00:04:23
cave. So I sort of gave a few war stories about business deals and stuff and as you say been reasonably low
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profile. So um they said those are such interesting stories you know it should be in a book and I said well yeah but
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who'd buy it and they said well we would say yeah I don't think I could write a book not not of my skill set. They said
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no we know some people who could help ghostrite it for you and uh you know you should do it. And I'd sort of thought in
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the back of my mind before that sort of from the point of view of my family because you know when your kids grow up
00:04:50
with you, you know, you're away a lot and at work a lot and that sort of thing when you're doing the sort of things
00:04:54
I've been doing. So I always thought just in the back of my mind I'd like to do something for my kids so they knew.
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>> And um it's turned out quite interesting actually cuz the kids have all read it
00:05:02
now and they go hell I didn't realize all that stuff was happening. >> Yeah. How did you how did you find the
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whole process? Is it quite cathartic? Is it um quite nice to reflect? Well, it kind of was because you you forget a lot
00:05:14
of stuff, you know, you're always living kind of in the now, aren't you? You've done a deal and you're on to the next
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thing. And yeah, to sort of look back and um Christina, the lady who helped me write it, who ghost wrote it. Um she's
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really good at sort of teasing things out because I do sort of forget a lot of stuff or just put it out of my mind. And
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when she teases it out, you start to remember certain things and you think actually that was pretty pretty wild
00:05:35
time. >> Yeah. So, so the last paragraph of the book, I've got this here. Uh, we all
00:05:41
have more inherent potential than we can possibly conceive and if we tap into it,
00:05:45
we can have an adventure that's beyond our wildest imaginings. Mine certainly has been. How many How many How many New
00:05:51
Zealanders do you think actually reached their full potential? >> Well, Brard, I don't think I've reached
00:05:56
mine. You know, far from it. Could have done more for sure. Made quite a few mistakes along the way. Could have done
00:06:01
better. But I think most people don't try. You know, they don't get to their deathbed and say, "Gee, you know, I'm
00:06:07
really glad I didn't try these things." you know, they think the opposite. I think a lot of people, you know, get
00:06:12
older and have regrets. And >> I don't have that. I don't have any regrets. >> If you'd put a percentage on it, like
00:06:18
how close to reaching your full potential are you like 80, 90? >> Oh, I don't think anything like that
00:06:24
really. 50 maybe, you know. That's why I'm still trying now. >> Yeah. Um, so what's an average day for
00:06:31
you now? >> Uh, well, three days a week I do a gym in the morning. I have a we're lucky
00:06:36
enough to have a gym at home. So I got a personal trainer comes to the house three times a week and I yeah I sit on
00:06:42
two boards. So I sit on the Turner board and I sit on the metered day board and we also have a property company um which
00:06:49
called the home bakery. Um and I'm the board of that. >> So that's three boards, isn't it? But
00:06:54
there two public company boards and one private company board. >> Why why used to work? Is it about making
00:06:58
more money or is it about fun or is it something else? >> Um both those things actually. I sort of
00:07:05
like it because you someone told me once you got experience at things you become
00:07:09
unconsciously competent and I think that's sort of where I am. You just because you've had a lot of experience
00:07:13
and you know stuff you know when when opportunities come along it's pretty easy to recognize something good or bad
00:07:18
or you see the pitfalls and oh the other thing I do quite a lot is help young guys. So I've just actually through the
00:07:26
Instagram weirdly enough I get direct message from people and say you know I'm doing this business and not sure exactly
00:07:31
what I'm doing and could you help me and I get more than I can handle to be honest. So that's another benefit of the
00:07:36
book. I think people can look at that and think well if I want to do stuff that maybe this is a bit of a guide but
00:07:42
I have helped quite a few young guys and it's interesting in New Zealand there's
00:07:46
young people who are really really doing well who are completely below the radar
00:07:50
who I've met through that. I mean, I've met guys who are worth I mean, hundreds of millions of dollars, guys in their
00:07:56
30s, you you wouldn't know who they were. >> Yeah. But they're making a lot of money,
00:08:00
and you might ask why why they would need help. But it's kind of, well, I'm making this money, you know, how do I
00:08:04
reinvest it? You know, how do I get out of it when I want to get out or should I
00:08:09
raise more capital and make my business even bigger? You know, there's a lot of questions that people don't know the
00:08:13
answers to. >> So, yeah, I do I did quite a lot of that. >> Yeah. Well, I I think at like at your age, in
00:08:20
your late 60s, you need you need purpose. Eh, you do need a reason to get out of bed in the morning.
00:08:24
>> For sure. I don't know what I don't want. Really bad at golf. So, I've tried I've tried that. I'm still trying, but
00:08:29
I'm not very good at it. >> Is it too slow for you? Does it I suppose if you have the occasional like
00:08:35
really good shot where it just feels, you know, flawless, um, that must give you a bit of adrenaline hit, but I think
00:08:42
the game of golf is probably a bit bit slow for you. >> Yeah, those shots are few and far
00:08:45
between as well. Yeah. No, I I think it's a great game, but I'm just not very good at it. And um
00:08:51
>> my old business partner, Eric Watson, I'm sure you're going to ask me about um
00:08:55
he always used to say, "If you can't win, don't play." So, I feel a bit like that about golf. Yeah.
00:08:59
>> So, you're you're currently um you alluded to this before. Um non-executive chairman at Turners. Um what what does
00:09:05
that mean and what does it look like? You've been doing that for years. E like 20 years.
00:09:08
>> Uh not quite. About 18, right? I think it's coming up 18 in September. Um well it's there's there's kind of some
00:09:16
really long answers to that because I don't know how much you can ask me later but where we started with turn we
00:09:23
started with a company called Dorchester so in the middle of the GFC sort of 2007208
00:09:28
we bought into this myself and my business partners we bought into Dorchester Finance.
00:09:32
>> Yeah. 20% of the company for 400k. >> That's right. Yeah. And it was it was crazy like a year earlier that 20% would
00:09:39
have been worth I don't know 15 or 20 million and you know it just went to crap the whole industry and I think 65
00:09:47
70 finance companies had gone broke. >> So we bought into it and I had to do it in a day. So we had a the guy who sold
00:09:54
it to us was in pretty distressed position. He had to sell it and a whole lot of other things.
00:09:59
So we bought we bought the 20% and then got to look inside and it was like way worse
00:10:06
than we thought which was it was kind of good in a way because it just needed like super drastic surgery
00:10:12
and um the first thing the first thing I did there was just say well you know we
00:10:17
bought 20% substantial security holder actually the very first thing I did was rang Hugh Green who was since passed
00:10:23
away but rang him up never met him before but uh said hey we bought 20% of the company I think I mentioned in book.
00:10:29
He said, "Would you like some more?" Was the first thing he said, but anyway, then he said, "Uh, oh, better come and
00:10:34
see you, Laddy." And he called me laddyy from then on. And um he said, "You know,
00:10:39
what are your plans?" He said, "Well, you know, this was a company that was worth 7 or $80 million, you know, a year
00:10:44
ago. We'd like to make it that again." And he said, "Well, I'll I'll match you. You put money in, I'll put money in."
00:10:49
And he was true to his word. But then, so I was very very involved. I've always been non theoretically non-executive,
00:10:56
but I was pretty executive in those days. And then the second thing I did, I said to the board, um, look, I need to
00:11:01
be chairman of this place. Um, and, uh, existing chairman said, like, I get it. So, he went. And I've been chairman ever
00:11:09
since. And I've gone from being pretty hands-on to pretty hands-off now. >> So, I talked to Todd, the CEO, probably,
00:11:15
you know, once a week now. Obviously, monthly board meeting. We have the odd, you know, project and stuff we do
00:11:22
together, but I wouldn't spend huge amounts of time on it. But um the reason for going you know back in time is once
00:11:29
we got into the finance business we figured out you know the big the biggest thing the two biggest things it's when
00:11:35
you lend money to people the biggest thing is to get it back you know otherwise it doesn't last very long
00:11:39
that's what had happened to all the others but um it was having getting the origination right so getting the deals
00:11:45
to you and the right sort of deals and we were mainly financing cars at that stage so we approached Turners um who
00:11:53
we' had nothing to do with at that stage and tried to get their business and um the guy was the CEO at the time refused
00:12:00
to see anyone and I said oh I like ringing I'm important guy so he'll talk to me but it proved not to be true so he
00:12:06
didn't talk to me and um I said in the board meeting just as a joke said we should buy that business and sack that
00:12:11
guy but somehow it started Elon Musk it was a bit like that yeah but it it was just almost inest you know but yeah we
00:12:20
just started like that and every actually you know that sort of makes sense we could buy that business and
00:12:24
then we'd have our own origination and we'd grow our finance book and you know it would all be in house and we at that
00:12:31
time um Dorchester still had an insurance business as well >> so they actually had an insurance
00:12:36
license um which most car dealers will offer you insurance but it'll be someone else's insurance whereas we we have our
00:12:42
own so we thought yeah we could write insurance business as well so we sort of that germinated and um
00:12:50
thought well how could we buy some shares so we found out Milford Asset Management
00:12:55
owned the 20 20% of um Turners. I thought well maybe we should approach them. So it was when Brian Gainner was
00:13:03
alive. So I went and saw Brian and said you know how would you feel about selling us your 20%. And it was just
00:13:08
perfect timing because he said oh well Turner is very sleepy and um I've tried to get in there and make a difference
00:13:14
but I can't do it and you might be better at that than me. So yeah we're happy to sell it to you. So we bought
00:13:19
just under 20% 19.9% and then we're in the Turners business. So those are the days I was very active.
00:13:25
I was active in all those things and um yeah then we got a guy on the board in Turners and then subsequent to that um
00:13:33
we thought this is really good. It would be really good for us and we'd like to own the rest. So we made a a full
00:13:38
takeover offer for the balance of it. >> Yeah. And it's an incredible business now. I don't know how how much of this
00:13:44
is your fingerprints but yeah it was a sleepy business as you say. It was just like a a car auction place where um it
00:13:50
was always a buyer market. If you if you needed if you were moving to Aussie and
00:13:53
you need to sell your car in a hurry, you go to Turners and now it's this massive massive um beloved Kiwi brand.
00:14:00
>> Yeah. No, we've made it huge. And the sort of model was um that we'd be vertically integrated so that we would
00:14:06
sell cars, we'd finance those cars and we'd insure those cars. And I said we had our own finance company called
00:14:11
Oxford Finance and we've got an insurance business called Autoshore where we have our own insurance license.
00:14:16
It's quite a quite a big deal to have an insurance license, so we're our own underwriter. And uh that model came from
00:14:23
I'd previously worked in the office equipment business and that's where we made all our money was in finance.
00:14:27
>> So we thought well tennis makes quite modest money on the cars we sell cuz they're generally quite lowric cars. So
00:14:34
you can't make that many dollars out of a low price car. I think on average we sort of make $800 $1,000 a car and just
00:14:40
just working on volume. But if you finance and your insurance, you can just you make a decent margin out of it and
00:14:46
uh you can afford to be in business and make some profit. >> And from the board side of things, do
00:14:51
you do you have a say in um like Tina from Turners or is it is that done at a much lower level and you only learn
00:14:55
about Tina from Turners when ads start popping up on YouTube? >> No, I'm involved in all those things. So
00:15:00
we had a a marketing subcommittee because I don't know how long ago this was. I think we've been involved with
00:15:06
Tina five or six years now. But previously, we used to do ads that were like supermarket ads and I absolutely
00:15:11
hated them. And said, you know, we've got to change that. I remember saying to Todd once, I said, "It looks like we're
00:15:17
a supermarket." And he goes, "Yeah, that's the idea." I said, "Not my idea. I don't like it." And but it just took
00:15:22
us ages to to figure out something. And so we we set up like a subcommittee to look at advertising. And there was me on
00:15:29
it and um one one of our other directors and um he had known a guy from Sachis a
00:15:38
guy by the name of Kim Thorp who I think used to be the he used to work in Sachis
00:15:42
in New York. I think he was international creative director anyway high up in Sachis and he's he's retired
00:15:48
but we um we got him to come and say you know what what could we do better and he
00:15:54
sort of embraced it and came up with the Tenis returners idea and yeah and then we um yeah we interviewed prospective
00:16:02
people to be Tina and uh yeah we got a guy um to actually write the ads um so so Kim came up with a concept but not
00:16:10
the production or you know the copywriting and all those sort of things. Um so we got um Daryl Parsons
00:16:16
who had done work for us at 42 Below >> and I don't know if you remember 42 Below advertising but it was pretty
00:16:22
irreverent sort of stuff >> and we thought he could add a you know some real life to it.
00:16:27
>> So um yeah he came on board and he does all the writing and production does a
00:16:30
very good job of it and sort of presents Tina in the way that we wanted it to be
00:16:33
done. So, I had her on the podcast, Bubba the comedian, um on the podcast last year and um it did some really good
00:16:40
numbers, you know, like like better than some all blacks and um you know, political leaders. Um that's a lot for a
00:16:47
person that's basically um shot to fame through, you know, being the face of an ad campaign.
00:16:52
>> Yeah, it's funny. I funny enough, I've never met her. So, I when we chose, we
00:16:56
just got videos of all the people who were applying for it, but I've never met her. But I think she and Daryl doing the
00:17:01
production, they get on really well. They're like a team. >> As a man in your 60s with a business
00:17:06
brain, are you are you seeing this and going but I I don't get it but let's give it a go or or does it connect with
00:17:12
you immediately and you think Yeah. >> No, it connects with me. I'm pretty freeth thinking on things. Yeah. I'm a
00:17:16
boomer, but I don't think I think like a boomer. Yeah. >> All right. Let's go all the way back to
00:17:20
the beginning. So, born September 1957 in Mongadi. Uh earliest memories. My very earliest memories are
00:17:30
standing in my bedroom when I was supposed to be sleeping waiting for my dad to come home from work cuz he had a
00:17:35
a new UV dub beetle and I love I always love cars and I don't know how old it would have been. Probably you know two
00:17:39
or three or something like that but I can remember standing at the window cuz I wanted to see the car come up the
00:17:44
road. It's about my earliest memory. >> Yeah. Yellow one, right? >> It was red. I always thought it was
00:17:48
orange. I think orangey red. Yeah. Uh what's what's something from your childhood that shapes how you still
00:17:53
operate today? Um there's pro probably a few things. I mean my parents were quite commercial so
00:18:00
they were both like neither went to university. My mom left school at 15. My dad went through to the seventh form but
00:18:06
I think they both quite smart like but in my mother's case. Um you know girls sort of left school and got married type
00:18:13
of thing you know that's what so she was married pretty young at 18 I think. >> The done thing back then wasn't it?
00:18:19
>> Yeah it was. It was the thing. someone in your village, marry them and >> yeah, it was done. But they they were
00:18:24
very keen on getting ahead. So, um, you know, right, they're always scheming and
00:18:30
trying to figure out how to make more money and stuff. And they did they did quite well from very humble beginnings.
00:18:34
My mom, my mom was from Kaggle and my father's born in so you know, they're not big city folks and their parents
00:18:41
were quite humble and stuff, but um, they ground away and tried businesses, did a lot of property stuff and they
00:18:46
ended up owning a sort of mini property empire. They owned I think it was 55 houses in the end.
00:18:52
>> So you know the mangry home they we lived in there and then they moved next stop was Parnell but they kept that
00:18:59
house and um then kept the panel house and bought another one and so on and over their lifetime they accumulated a
00:19:05
lot of property but that was very shaping for me in their time in my childhood cuz I used to listen to them
00:19:09
all the time. But probably the other thing was that um I wasn't I was okay at school average I would say but I didn't
00:19:16
try very hard either. And my father wanted me to be academic or both my parents did really. My my uncle was a
00:19:23
nuclear physicist. So there's some brainy people in the family at least one. >> But I just did I just didn't try very
00:19:29
hard. So my father used to say all the time, oh you're so bloody dumb, you know, you'll never get anywhere. And I
00:19:33
thought instead of being sort of knocked down by that, I was well I'll be showing
00:19:37
you, you know. So I think those are the two things that shaped me really. >> Yeah. They were obviously quite driven.
00:19:42
So they they they had that brand new V-Dub that we talked about when you were a kid. um got the first rental property
00:19:47
when when you were 5 years old. >> Yep. >> So, did they have like a like a a grow
00:19:51
an abundance mindset with money or a scarcity mindset? >> No, they were not spenders at all.
00:19:57
They're real tight. I hated spending money. So, yeah. I mean, my my father loved a beer, but he would allow himself
00:20:04
two beers at night and never more because didn't want to spend any more money. >> Well, that's discipline as well.
00:20:09
>> It is. He was he was disciplined. Yeah. >> Um so, you went to 13 different schools.
00:20:13
Uh >> yeah. Why? Why did you go to 13 different schools? >> Well, a couple of factors. So, my father
00:20:19
ended up he sort of worked he was in the civil construction area. So, he sort of
00:20:24
worked his way up. He wasn't a qualified engineer, but he basically did an engineer's job and um he worked his way
00:20:29
up the ranks and he ended up running a company called BitMix, which is a roing company and um they transferred him
00:20:34
around a lot. So, that was part of it. So, you know, we went into the cargle even for a while. So there was that and
00:20:41
then there was the, you know, buy the next house and the next house would be in a different area. So you'd go to a
00:20:45
different school. >> What did that teach you about people and relationship building and
00:20:51
going to a new school is traumatic for for kids? >> It is very traumatic. Yeah. >> You had to be learn to meet people,
00:20:57
didn't you? And be socialable and all that sort of stuff. So I was quite shy. Probably still am. And uh
00:21:02
>> yeah, but you just had to make a go of it. >> So after school you go to teachers
00:21:07
college. Um what were you thinking? >> I was thinking um well teaching my my grandfather was a a school teacher. He
00:21:16
was actually headmaster in the end. He was a headmaster. I think it was papay primary school. So um he thought it was
00:21:22
a great idea. But my thinking was I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And uh in those days you got a bery for
00:21:27
going to teachers college. So you could go to university you'd end up with a university degree. Uh but you didn't
00:21:32
have to pay for it. So they'd pay all your fees plus some money on top so you could you could live. So, I like that
00:21:36
aspect of it. And also, there was like seven girls for every one guy there. So, it was sort of appealing as well and and
00:21:42
lots of holidays. >> Yeah. But do do you know how many how many uh teachers in New Zealand have
00:21:46
Ferraris? >> No. No. Not too many. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, when did you when did you drop out
00:21:52
of teachers college? >> I got to my third year. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. So, I did I did two and a quarter
00:21:57
years. So, we had exams sort of at the beginning of the third year and um Oh, I didn't even go to one of them. and um
00:22:05
they called me in. It was sort of for a disciplinary meeting and uh so you know if you don't put your finger out you're
00:22:10
going to be gone. >> And I said oh don't worry I'll just leave anyway. So so I just went
00:22:16
>> yeah I probably was probably the bigger this that was the trigger but I went to
00:22:19
um they had this thing where you call it going on section where you go and you're
00:22:24
in a classroom with a teacher you know getting ready to be a teacher and I went to Myra Intermediate and um which I
00:22:31
don't know what it's like now but in those days was in Hamilton. It was a pretty rough part of Hamilton and
00:22:35
there's kids throwing chairs at you and those sort of things and you could strap
00:22:38
in those days. So um I I told the the teacher this kid threw a chair at me and he said right kid you know come with me
00:22:45
and we out the back room and he says you need to be witness to that. Got six of the best
00:22:49
>> you know I don't know if I want to be involved in all this but didn't feel so
00:22:54
good. The kid did behave afterwards though punishment honestly bring it back. Yeah. Um, so when when you um got
00:23:02
kicked out or left teachers college, how did it feel at the time? Did it feel like a failure? Fail fail at the time?
00:23:08
>> No. No. No. I didn't I didn't care. >> You invested so much time though. >> Yeah. I was lucky enough to be kind of
00:23:14
smart enough to get by without trying too hard. So, you know, I mucked around a fair bit and I was into motorbikes in
00:23:19
those days, which still am a bit, but >> so I had a few mates there and we'd go riding all the time. So, we had quite a
00:23:25
good time. And um it's not like I put my heart and soul into it. Done enough to pass the first two years. Anyway,
00:23:32
>> I've got a photo here to show you. Um this is that's a book that your parents
00:23:36
gave you. >> Oh yes. Yes. >> When you What age did they give you the book Making Money Made Simple?
00:23:43
>> I would have been in my 20s, early 20s probably. >> It's very interesting book to give a
00:23:48
young man. Eh, like it's really insightful. >> Yeah. I mean, I I read it, but I I
00:23:55
almost felt offended by it because it's like a 101 version of how to make money.
00:24:00
And I I sort of thought, you think I'm really You do think I'm really dumb, don't you giving me that book? Yeah.
00:24:05
>> Oh, you thought it was too basic. >> I thought it was too basic. Yeah. I wasn't really inspired by it. Well, I
00:24:09
was inspired by the I thought I rejected it and I thought I'll show you how it's
00:24:13
done. You know, >> it's quite funny. That's the difference between you and me. Like I I not that
00:24:19
particular book, but I read lots of books in my 20s like um yeah, The Richest Man in Babylon, Napoleon Hills,
00:24:24
Think and Grow Rich, and look at me. I'm sitting here doing a [ __ ] podcast. >> So, I had the information, but I haven't
00:24:30
done anything with it. Whereas you I I don't know if it was that book in particular. As you say, you know, you
00:24:35
thought that book was a bit basic. I don't I don't think it was that at all. You know, I used to read like books by
00:24:40
Harold Robbins and people like that, you know, like, >> you know, people living life large, big
00:24:46
adventure, you know, making money, driving fast cars. That's me, you know. >> So, one of your early jobs after
00:24:52
dropping out of teachers college was um a journalist at the Wetto Weekender. >> I wasn't a journalist. I was a I was a
00:24:58
salesman. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> What were the Yeah. And you worked under um the great Barry Common?
00:25:02
>> I did. I did. Yeah. >> Yeah. What What were the big lessons you got from Barry?
00:25:06
>> I got a lot of lessons there, actually. So he he was a journalist. Um he was a
00:25:10
financial journalist and he'd been I think working down in Rooua for I think is it the press down there? Whatever the
00:25:15
daily paper is. He'd been working there and he just decided he was sick about writing about people making money and he
00:25:21
might make some himself. So he started this publication called the White Out Weekender magazine and uh he'd only been
00:25:26
in business six months and um he'd sort of I don't know just winged his way into it really. He had gone from
00:25:34
the journalism side because I think journalists a lot of they know a lot of stuff but they don't practice it you
00:25:39
know >> so but he he'd gone the the whole way to practice it >> and he was doing a pretty good job
00:25:45
because a lot of people had started in the newspaper business and failed just about everyone who started
00:25:49
>> cuz you know the old publications were king at that stage the white times or whatever
00:25:54
>> but he he'd survived for 6 months and um >> yeah he was he was just a very persuasive guy I haven't seen him for a
00:26:01
long time probably last 10 years ago or something but he It was super persuasive
00:26:05
and um I went on some sales calls with him and I just couldn't believe how he talked people into stuff and it it
00:26:10
wasn't a hard sell. It was just like conversational and you know you end up walking out of that room with a whole
00:26:16
lot of other people's money and I that's a proper lesson, you know, we go in here
00:26:20
with nothing and we walk out and we've we've taken some money off them. You know, I like the idea of that.
00:26:25
>> So yeah, there's one thing you talk about in the book how um he told you people say no seven times before they
00:26:31
say yes. Um, which I read that I read that sentence like a few times because it seemed really interesting to me
00:26:36
because it's it's quite PSDA quite annoying but it seems to work. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's not that is a true statistic
00:26:44
but I don't think it's the way you just ask for the sale seven times but yeah please please please you don't sort of
00:26:49
do that but you'll just try different angles to it. So someone will be saying you know not today. So you might say
00:26:54
back say I don't know fair enough but if we did do something you know where would
00:26:58
you put the item would would it fit over there you know would the electrics in your business be right and you just
00:27:03
start asking them questions that are a little bit assumptive about their thinking and you you dig deeper you know
00:27:09
like I used to sell photocopies and word process and things like that for a living and you could do a lot of that
00:27:14
sort of stuff you say what sort of power have you got in here do you have threephase they go oh do you need
00:27:18
threephase and you go oh no just checking you know but you're just drawing them in a little bit you
00:27:23
Yeah. So, so you'd you'd ask seven times but in different ways. >> Oh, so it's not a case of just like
00:27:29
wearing them down and so they say, "Look, Grant, if I say yes, will you just [ __ ] off and leave me alone?"
00:27:33
>> Well, I I have had that. I have had that. Well, a yes is a yes, regardless of how you extract it, I guess.
00:27:40
>> Yeah. Well, that's right. I mean, I'm sure you know when people are selling to
00:27:42
you, you know, sometimes you're just about there and they give up >> and you think, "Okay."
00:27:46
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I You mentioned the um photocopies just before, so um Yeah.
00:27:52
This sort of time stamps the um the period the period. So there were companies like Xerox and and Ubix I
00:27:58
think it was they were massive and photocopers cost like you know 20,000 30,000 bucks. Massive units up up to
00:28:04
$300,000. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Isn't it wild to think now you can get like a a printer scanner fact like 300
00:28:11
bucks from N Lemings? >> Yeah. These ones are very high-end ones but they produce like I don't know 150
00:28:17
copies a minute and they're like buying a printing press really. Yeah. So Vincent printing.
00:28:23
>> So it was at Xerox that you met Eric Watson >> was. Yeah. He was my boss there.
00:28:27
>> Yeah. What what did you learn from Eric Watson? Good and bad. >> Yeah. I lots of stuff from Eric. I mean
00:28:32
I was quite friendly with him. >> So we're kind of I guess quite similar sort of people. Um I've sort of survived
00:28:38
better in the business world than he has. But he would be much more of a risk taker than I am.
00:28:43
>> Um but he's I guess the if I was to pick a big thing sort of power of positive
00:28:48
thinking. So he would always think very big. Um I remember one time, so you mentioned Ubix before we we ended up
00:28:56
buying Ubiix. So we started off as their competition. We grow so big we bought them. And I ended up as a from went from
00:29:01
a sales rep at Xerox to CEO of Ubix. So was a big business. But that that was Eric's thinking, you know, it's like we
00:29:08
think we want to think big and >> have big vision. And I remember once we were in a sales meeting at Ubix and Eric
00:29:16
getting never knew where he was and I was in the with the the managers in the room and talking about you know next
00:29:22
year's budget and that sort of thing and we're sort of saying you know you can do
00:29:24
5 million you can do 10 million that sort of stuff and Eric walks in and he just goes up the whiteboard and rubs it
00:29:29
all off and he goes let's start that again you know like that's not enough what can you really do and just so
00:29:34
inspirational you know and we did it ended up bigger targets did a much bigger number and thought hell I thought
00:29:40
my numbers were bigger I would have content. But >> yeah, we just thought so much bigger.
00:29:45
And when I first went into business with him, >> um he said to me, "Oh, you should come
00:29:49
work with me and have some shares in the business. You can buy in and um I'm going to make this a billion dollar
00:29:53
business." Well, this was a business that at that time was turning over 12 million a year.
00:29:56
>> Incredible. >> So, and I was naive enough to think, "Yeah, it sounds like a good idea. Okay,
00:30:01
I'm in." And and we did turn it into a billion dollar business. >> Was this Blue Star?
00:30:06
>> It was Blue Star. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you bought um you talk about this in the book. So, you you bought 7%
00:30:10
of the company. >> Yeah. And he kind of he kind of [ __ ] you over a bit. Y >> like Yeah. Like he inflated the value.
00:30:16
So you you got kind of >> Yeah. It was a big learning curve for me for sure because you by the way in the
00:30:20
book you don't blame him at all. You say it's your fault. You're taking sort of extreme ownership. But
00:30:24
>> well I don't my philosophy I don't like to blame anyone for anything. I take responsibility myself because I think
00:30:30
this whole kind of victim mindset is why people don't do well. So something goes
00:30:34
wrong I say well somehow that's my fault. It's not someone else's. >> So that's the way I look at that. But um
00:30:39
it did seem like he was maybe acting a little bit shadily. >> Yeah. Oh, sure. That's the guy, you
00:30:45
know, like you know, I wouldn't say shady, but you know, >> he just push pushes things, you know, to
00:30:53
their maximum. I mean, you know, the philosophy of it. He said you can buy this business on a multiple of earnings,
00:30:59
which is a legitimate way to value something. I knew nothing about it at that time, but in that case it was seven
00:31:04
times earnings and um it was on forecast and the forecast was quite aggressive and you normally do it on for a private
00:31:10
business I know now you normally do three or four times on historical earnings. So I probably paid double what
00:31:15
I should have paid but >> but you know it worked out well. >> Yeah. And valuable lesson I guess.
00:31:20
>> Oh yeah. I haven't done it again. >> Well that's that's that's the thing. Um yeah you don't lose you learn. Eh as
00:31:27
long as you don't make the same mistakes over and over. When when was the last time you spoke? Are you still in touch
00:31:31
or no? >> No, no. I um I last saw him in 2019 in Monaco and um I was getting in a lift in
00:31:39
a hotel there and he was in the lift. So ended up having dinner with him that night and stuff and that's the last last
00:31:44
time I've seen him. >> He was in incarcerated for a short time in the UK and I think there's warrants
00:31:50
out for his arrest somewhere. I I don't know exactly. But when when he when things turned um the pear shape for him,
00:31:56
were you surprised? I I would be surprised he let it go that far. I mean, it he he was always kind of
00:32:02
on the fringes. >> You know, he'd be pushing things to the biggest degree, but I didn't think he'd
00:32:07
push them that far. So, >> I think the reason he ended up in prison was um for perjury. So,
00:32:13
>> he was just telling a story that the judge determined wasn't true. >> I don't think he expected to go to jail
00:32:18
for it. >> And who is um Paul Smiys? >> Well, Paul Smies was sort of my best friend. So um and and business
00:32:28
colleague. So >> he's a really good guy and has gone largely unrecognized. But um yeah, I met
00:32:34
him when I used to work for Telecom and he was my boss there and um we had a fractious relationship to start with cuz
00:32:41
he he got the job that I thought I should have. But um just in the end we got on famously well
00:32:47
and completely different sorts of people. say he was an accountant and as far from an accountant as you get
00:32:52
>> and um and he was a farmer sort of an accountant/farmer came from a farming background but uh
00:32:59
>> yeah when I went to blueest star I left telecom and I sort of still stayed friends with them
00:33:06
>> and then we're doing the blueest star thing and um we grew that company by acquiring companies and we didn't really
00:33:11
know what we were doing you know we we kind of knew the broad plan but not the mechanics of it so I said to Paul why
00:33:16
don't you come and work with us here and you do what I did, take some shares in the company and help us with the
00:33:21
acquisitions. And because he was a beanie, you know, he had some knowledge of what to do. And as we went on, we got
00:33:26
better and better at doing that. And we bought in Booto bought 56 companies. >> Wow.
00:33:30
>> Yeah. So it was in a space of 3 years. And Paul did majority of that, most of
00:33:35
the grunt work on it. >> And you had a conversation in the car one day about um how much money you
00:33:40
wanted. >> That's right. When when we both had no money. Yeah. >> What was what was your figure? What was
00:33:45
his figure? Well, honestly it we we were driving around telecom when uh telecom was changing from a government
00:33:53
department to a private business and you know we unfortunately got the job of making people redundant. So we're
00:33:58
driving around the country basically resizing the thing and we spent a lot of time together and um we're just talking
00:34:04
about money one day and he said um somehow the figure of 20 million came up. This is like a really long time ago
00:34:10
30 years ago or something. >> But he said I could have 20 million if I want to. don't want to. And I said, "Well, tell
00:34:16
me how you do that because I want that. I'm keen." Yeah. So, he So, the conversation sort
00:34:23
of went on. He said, "Well, I just want enough money to buy a nice farm so I can
00:34:26
quit working for telecom and be a farmer." And I said, "Well, you know, I sort of I'd like 100 million. You how
00:34:31
could I do that?" And we just got talking about it and saying to him, you know, "What would you do?" And I said,
00:34:36
"This is what I do." And we just started scheming really. And, >> you know, that flowed into
00:34:41
>> Blue Star later on. And you know Justin in those you just learn a lot of stuff
00:34:46
like I learned a lot from Eric and what Eric had learned he learned from Graeme Hart
00:34:50
>> so he was quite close to Graeme back in the day and uh I think he's quite a bigger shareholder rank group at the
00:34:56
time so he'd learned a lot lot of lessons then he always used to tell me Graeme's the smartest guy I know and um
00:35:02
see he passed that knowledge on to Paul and I and we learned as we went. >> Yeah.
00:35:10
So when Paul died um at age 56 in 2016, had you was your net worth more than 20 million at that point?
00:35:17
>> Uh yeah, it was it was well north of that then. Yeah. And so was his. >> How good. Um yeah. What are you Yeah.
00:35:23
What are your recollections of that? So you dined with him and then he passed away that night.
00:35:27
>> Yeah. So we had um we had a partnership called the business bakery and he was a
00:35:31
partner there. Jeff Frost was a partner and uh we had an annual meeting and it was actually it was actually his
00:35:37
birthday that day to make it even worse. And um yeah, we we so we had the meeting
00:35:42
and um went out to dinner afterwards. But I remember it was kind of weird at the meeting because his in his family
00:35:49
tree they had had heart problems. So his father had died at 50 and his grandfather had died at 50 from heart
00:35:55
attacks. And I was just honored him all the time. Go and get checked. Go and get
00:35:58
checked. And he just wouldn't, you know, I don't like needles. I don't like doctors. I don't like this. And that day
00:36:04
I'd said to him, [ __ ] sake, go and see a doctor. you know, it's not that bad. It's better than dying. And um yeah,
00:36:13
that's actually what happened on that very day. So, yeah, it was uh it was a it was a huge shock. Like, I say goodbye
00:36:20
to him after the dinner and um he went and stayed in a motel. He wasn't a big spender of money, stay somewhere cheap,
00:36:27
the Double Tree Motel, I think, but yeah, died in his sleep. >> Yeah. >> Can you remember the phone call?
00:36:34
>> I can. and his son son Joe rang me and um she said I got some really bad news
00:36:40
dad died saying yeah I remember that absolutely exactly >> yeah it was a it was it was terrible and
00:36:48
it was it's just so unexpected when someone's that age and he had a lot on they they had a big farm and they breed
00:36:55
horses so he had 50 odd me I know nothing about that business but um >> you know
00:37:03
his family his wife and kids didn't really know what was going on. So, he left a big kind of legacy of the stuff.
00:37:08
And he his wife had said to him, "Paul, you're doing all this stuff." This is previously, "You're doing all this
00:37:13
stuff. Like, what happens if you're not here anymore?" And he goes, "I'll just ask Grant." So, I thought, "Thanks very
00:37:19
much." So, yeah, I bit involvement helping them out and >> Yeah. And they're doing they're doing
00:37:25
really well now. >> Yeah. >> So, um um that company, I think I've got this right, Blue Star. So you sold that
00:37:32
in your mid-30s and made 14 million. >> Yep. >> 14. Yeah. Um, now are you familiar with
00:37:38
the term [ __ ] you money? >> Uh, I am familiar with that. Yeah. So for 14 million, excuse me, for most
00:37:44
people, especially in your mid-30s, would be considered like [ __ ] you money. It's enough money that you can choose
00:37:50
what you do and don't do for the for the rest of your life. Um, yeah. Why did why did you carry on and
00:37:56
do other stuff? Why didn't you just put your feet up then? You bought a Porsche.
00:37:59
You traveled a bit. Yeah, I probably did that for six months. >> You just got bored?
00:38:04
>> Yeah, I just wanted to do I don't know. I don't know how to do anything else really. So, I mean, if you ask my wife
00:38:10
like we go somewhere and sit on a beach, I mean a day of that and I've had enough, you know, I just want to be
00:38:15
doing something. So, even if I'm lying on the beach, I'll be reading the financial pages and
00:38:20
>> listening to the All-In podcast or something. Yeah. Scheming basically. And I look at most things through that lens.
00:38:26
you know, if we ever go somewhere, I'm straight at the real estate agents looking at all property costs and, you
00:38:31
know, just trying to understand what's going on there. So, it's the way my mind works.
00:38:36
>> Yeah. So, so you you bought a Porsche. Um, and there's a common thread in in your book. It seems like um you
00:38:41
celebrate your big wins by by buying another car. >> Um, what does your wife do to celebrate
00:38:46
the big ones? Is she like a jewelry person or >> Well, it's funny like in the early days,
00:38:52
yes. you know, like we we spent a lot of money with Patrick Jeers, you know, for
00:38:56
quite a few years and I bought a lot of watches and things like that, but it's kind of it's almost like the new money
00:39:01
thing, you know, so you think I couldn't have all the stuff before, so I want stuff. But I mean, if I said to her now,
00:39:08
I'm going to buy you a 10 karat diamond, you know, she go, oh, I don't want it, you know, don't don't do that. You know,
00:39:13
she just not interested. She just >> wants to live a healthy lifestyle and, you know, have the kids do well and
00:39:18
support them and that sort of stuff. So yeah, she's got that's all she wants. She doesn't want anything material
00:39:24
really. >> Yeah. >> Um so it was after that that um 42 below came along. Um which is I suppose how
00:39:30
you developed a bit of a name and a reputation for yourself in the s of your mainstream media cycle. What was 42
00:39:37
below when you became involved? >> Well, it's very small. So it was a business. So um Jeff Jeff Ross had
00:39:43
started it and he thought that New Zealand was a kind of clean green place that the sort
00:39:51
of place you should make vodka. So sort of like Sweden and >> Alps and you know all that sort of
00:39:56
thing. >> And so he started making started making vodka but he took it from a very you
00:40:00
know I make the purest best looking vodka in the world best tasting but not in a very commercial way. And uh Jeff
00:40:08
and Justine are quite quite quirky you know. So Justine bought Jeff a still and for his birthday and he put the still in
00:40:14
his garage and didn't really know what he was doing and it blew up and blew the garage up and that sort of stuff and
00:40:19
that was about the time shortly after that we met and um Oh, so it's real early on in the piece.
00:40:24
>> It was it was very early. Yeah. So they they had made some sales. They were making
00:40:31
about it sort of semicommercialized it. He had a friend who was a chemistry teacher who worked out to make sort of
00:40:38
consistently good vodka for him, but still very low volume. And I think he was selling like 500 cases a year. So
00:40:45
500 dozen, but it was very much still a garagey type business. But um we had a mutual acquaintance, a guy that used to
00:40:51
work for me that went to work for Jeff and said, "Oh, you should you two should talk." So um we did talk and um yeah,
00:40:59
this kind of it's become quite famous now. In the first meeting, you know, I said to Jeff, "Well, tell tell me about
00:41:03
the business." And he goes, "All the things I've told you now." But he said, "You know, we're doing 500 cases a
00:41:07
year." I said, "What do you hope to do?" And he goes, "Oh, you know, we might be
00:41:09
able to do a thousand." And I said, "I get a real goal, Jeff." Like, "What's the point of that?" You know, and he
00:41:15
was, as it turned out later, was quite stunned by that. And I said, "Oh, I thought I was doing quite well, but
00:41:20
obviously I wasn't." And um yeah, so we ended up doing a deal with him. And it was quite a tough deal from my point of
00:41:27
view. We put a couple of million bucks into it. So quite quite a lot of money and um
00:41:32
but it was a loan and um in return for that loan he we got 51% of the company I think it was I think I'm right at that
00:41:41
>> and uh he retained the balance and then we commercialized the business and we
00:41:45
put the money into to commercialize it or and um and >> the rest is history. >> Yeah. Well, we list with probably other
00:41:52
big thing is we listed it which was pretty controversial at the time. >> Yeah. because we didn't have any
00:41:58
knowledge of public markets, but I knew it was a good place to raise money. >> From from from what you're explaining
00:42:03
about that meeting with Jeff Ross, it sounds like a real life version of like Shark Tank or Dragon's Den.
00:42:08
>> Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's um Yeah. I mean, hypothetical is a a kind of a pointless game, but what
00:42:15
what do you think um 42 would have become if if you hadn't got involved? Would it still be just, you know, a
00:42:22
passion project for Jeff in his garage? >> I think probably. And that's not casting
00:42:27
aspersions on Jeff. I just don't think he thought of it that way. >> Didn't allow us. And they at that stage
00:42:32
didn't have much capital. So, you know, it's hard to do business without capital.
00:42:36
>> And um when we listed it, it made it famous straight away. I mean, obviously a lot of the advertising we did, you
00:42:43
know, got a lot of cut through, but >> yeah, I I think I think it would have struggled really. I mean, because no one
00:42:49
was making spirits successfully out of New Zealand. We we were the first. >> Yeah.
00:42:54
that figure before where you talk about um doing 500 boxes a year and his goal to do a thousand. It's worth um pointing
00:43:00
out by the time you sold it to Picardi, you were doing like a 100,000. >> Yeah. 100,000.
00:43:04
>> Incredible. Mindblowing. >> A lot of grow. Yeah. >> And and selling it some pretty cool
00:43:08
places too. >> Yeah. So, so you getting involved and um taking half the company. Um was it a
00:43:14
like a hunch and a vibe or was it something more sensible? Well, I suppose there's a bit of that
00:43:19
because no one done it before, but um we just thought in New Zealand it's hard to
00:43:25
find plays of scale. So if you want to do something of scale, you know, we haven't got a very big market here. So
00:43:30
usually you have to do something international. So we thought that had big legs and there was a big cocktail
00:43:35
culture in the US. So that was kind of our big goal um was to sell vodka in the US. Um people there, well they used to
00:43:44
and they still do, they call by name. So they'll say, "Could I have a 42 below martini or could I have a Belvadier
00:43:50
martini or whatever it was or gray goose martini?" And so we sort of like that idea. And if you could get into bars and
00:43:57
people were calling for your drink, it became fashionable and you get in the right bars, you get cool people drinking
00:44:02
your product and other people follow them was kind of the strategy of it all. >> And it it worked pretty well for us.
00:44:08
>> Yeah. Um, you're reading between the lines in the book, it seems like you and
00:44:12
Jeff very different people and um maybe maybe didn't didn't like each other initially. I know you're great great
00:44:17
mates now. Um, but is there a moment that stands out as a point that you started to respect or understand Jeff
00:44:23
Ross? >> Yeah, definitely. I mean, I wouldn't say we didn't like each other. Never didn't
00:44:26
like each other, but just didn't get each other. >> Different different personality types.
00:44:30
Yeah. >> Yeah. Just completely different really. I think in a normal life we never cross
00:44:34
paths but um yeah I think we just grew to respect each other like I talk about in the book we had an office at Penrose
00:44:41
so we were in the electricity business at that time as well and we had quite a big office and 42 below operated in
00:44:47
Ponson Bay so I said to Jeff we don't need to pay two lots of rent you know you need to move here and he's like you
00:44:54
know Ellisley Penrose no I don't want to but anyway I sort of forcible about that
00:45:00
and made him do it And uh they came in there and we had this little long narrow building. So they went right down the
00:45:06
back of the building and putting up partitions, you know, didn't want to see us at all. But um gradually those
00:45:12
barriers broke down and uh yeah, we helped each other. So he was obviously very good at advertising, marketing,
00:45:16
branding, all that sort of stuff. And we were we were good at selling stuff. So >> yeah. So you end up selling in 2006 to
00:45:24
Bicardi for 138 million. So So you you get half that half that yours? >> Well, it wasn't mine personally cuz I
00:45:29
had business partners and stuff as well. and and we'd listed at that stage. So 25% of the shares were owned by the
00:45:34
public as well. But >> you know, we got a pretty good payday out of it. Yeah. >> Yeah. What did you enjoy more the
00:45:40
process or the outcome? >> Um I enjoyed the outcome more. I have to say it was it was a crazy sort of
00:45:47
business because you you end up in I'm not really a drinker. Um but you end up in places and you end up drinking a lot
00:45:54
and you you it's interesting in a lot of ways because you end up in a lot of places you wouldn't normally go. Um
00:46:01
yeah, I just remember we went to a nightclub in the States. So we used to do a lot in the states called Bliss and
00:46:08
it's where Hugh Hefner used to hang out and it's he was pretty old at that time and uh he had this roped off section of
00:46:15
Bliss and so we went in there one night and he was there and there's I mean probably 75 or 80 at this stage and
00:46:21
these kind of girls with him that were like 20 and there's a whole bunch of them and he's on the dance floor not
00:46:27
gating very well and he has another guy with him and I was asking around who's the other guy cuz he's another old guy
00:46:32
and he said that's his doctor he takes him everywhere. just in case something goes wrong. Yeah,
00:46:39
you probably got a like a a prescription of Viagra on standby as well. >> Yeah. >> Um so the the night a deal like that
00:46:46
gets finalized like the Bicardi deal um what do you do? What happens then? >> Is it under is it overwhelm? Is it like
00:46:54
Yeah, it's kind of it's kind of like relief, you know? It's it's relief because you put all this effort into
00:47:00
something and it was a huge amount of effort and it was three years from beginning to end. So we bought in, we
00:47:05
listed it, we sold it within three years. So, you know, it was all-encompassing and you just have so
00:47:11
many problems along the way. And many times you just think, you know, it's not going to work. Like when we did the
00:47:17
listing, like most of the people in the public market were against it. You know,
00:47:22
all the brokers and stuff thought it was a terrible idea, but we did we did get it done. But I remember the day after we
00:47:27
listed, we listed at 50 cents a share and the first day of trading, I think it went down to like 38 or 37 and I just
00:47:35
couldn't cope, you know. So I just went home and I thought switching my phone off and I just water blasted at home for
00:47:41
3 days, you know, cuz I just thought I can't deal with this at the moment and then went back and
00:47:47
>> yeah, got on with it. >> So selling a company like that, is it is it liberating or painful or is it
00:47:53
different for you and Jeff? Like Jeff obviously it was his baby. Yeah, I think I think it's different because I look at
00:47:57
it transactionally where he said it was his baby for sure. I think he felt it was a bit unfinished business.
00:48:02
>> Yeah. So, >> yeah. So, after the Bicardi sal is is there like um an emotional sort of crash
00:48:10
afterwards or no? Is it just a you just just waiting for delivery of the next Ferrari?
00:48:17
>> Well, you you do do that. >> Um I mean I was already involved with Dorchester at that at that time so we
00:48:23
sort of already onto the next thing. Yeah. So, >> yeah, that leads us to the next chapter
00:48:29
um of the podcast because while this was going on, these negotiations with Picardi, you were you were battling um
00:48:35
bowel cancer? >> Yep. >> So, how present were you with the the whole sale thing or were you just like a
00:48:43
onetrack mind with the cancer >> or was the thing a nice distraction in a way? >> Well, it was really just all happened at
00:48:52
the same time. So, I mean, it was a a bad series of events cuz my father died from bowel cancer and um when I got
00:49:00
diagnosed, um he died 3 weeks later from bowel cancer. So, I kind of had pretty stark reality in front of me. So, I was
00:49:08
kind of on one side of my brain, I'm dealing with that. And when I got diagnosed, I think it was on like a
00:49:12
Wednesday or Thursday, and they said, "You need surgery like ASAP." So, booking it was in there on the Monday or
00:49:18
the Tuesday or something and you have to get all prepped for the surgery. So I was just like, you know, from just
00:49:24
thinking I'm a normal guy with a normal life to all of a sudden on the operating
00:49:27
table and had a pretty big operation. I had it was 40 or 50 lymph nodes taken out. Um third of my bowel taken out and
00:49:35
in those these days they do it laparoscopically but in those days you they just unzip you basically. You could
00:49:40
just open you right up and it was four or five hour operation. So it was pretty big.
00:49:45
>> Anyway, I just after that operation you can't do chemo or anything straight away. you kind of have a 6 week period.
00:49:51
So I was in that 6 week period and trying to be normal and uh I went and watched my young son playing rugby that
00:49:58
weekend. Sort of must have been four or five weeks in. >> How old were your kids at the time?
00:50:06
>> I'd say about 12 and nine something like that. >> [ __ ] >> Yeah. So pretty. Yeah. Right. At the
00:50:10
stage they need a father, right? Uh anyway, Toby, my young son, I was went to watch him play rugby and I think that
00:50:17
was Kings playing St. Kents or something and um one of the other dads came up to
00:50:20
me and he said, "Oh, I've got someone who wants to talk to you." And he's a guy I knew worked for Craig and Craig's
00:50:26
Investment Partners at that time. And I said, "Oh, what what do they want?" I guess they want to buy you. Okay.
00:50:34
Cuz I'm dealing with all this other stuff, right? And he he didn't know that either. Like I was just all private at
00:50:39
that time, you know? So I said, "Okay, what so what happens next?" And he goes, "Well, they want to come down here and
00:50:45
they can be here like in a week." And um so you know, I get on the phone to Jeff
00:50:49
and Steve, my business partner, and saying, "Well, you know, what are we going to do? I suppose we should see
00:50:53
them." And uh the way the timing worked is the day they wanted to be there was the first day's chemotherapy I had. So I
00:51:01
had my first lot of chemo and then went to the meeting with Bicardi and >> Well, same day, same week.
00:51:06
>> The same day. The same day. Yeah. Yeah. So it was pretty pretty intense and chemo doesn't make you feel very good.
00:51:11
So and uh chemo is cumulative. So the first time is bad but not too bad you know and uh but each time I had to have
00:51:18
it every 3 weeks for 6 months and each time it gets much worse. So by the end of it I couldn't do anything really. I
00:51:24
was just buggered but >> could go to the meeting. So what happened in the meeting we all got
00:51:28
involved but as time went on you know Jeff had to take more of the load and uh I never went never even went to the last
00:51:34
meeting cuz I literally thought I was going to die. You know I was in pretty bad shape. Uh,
00:51:39
so yeah, just diminishing involvement and yeah, drag Jeff into out of his comfort zone for sure because,
00:51:46
>> you know, it probably wasn't his area of expertise or not at that time. >> Mhm.
00:51:50
>> What's that moment like when you get told you've got cancer? >> Oh, you asked for you asked for a
00:51:55
sandwich, didn't you? >> I did because they give you this drug called mazzelan when they when they
00:52:00
check you. So, you have a colonoscopy and they check you out and they give you this drug. So you you're having all this
00:52:05
bad [ __ ] happening but you don't care. So So I finished and you know everyone's
00:52:10
very somber and they got my wife Donna in there and you know the surgeon goes some really bad news you got cancer and
00:52:17
said yeah yeah but I'm really hungry like you got a sandwich or something and um then
00:52:23
>> people lose their appetite with that news. No. What do you cuz you're high on
00:52:26
this drug, right? And so anyway, I had all that and I had a sandwich and we went home and I went and had a sleep
00:52:33
because the drugs make you very drowsy. And I woke up and the drugs had worn off
00:52:37
and I thought, you know, this is like this is like real and it's a really big problem. And it's
00:52:42
the worst thing because my personality is no matter what's going wrong, I can think there's got to be a way around
00:52:47
this, you know, it's got to be an angle. There's got to be something we can do. So I've been lots of tight scrapes over
00:52:52
a lot of time and always got my way out of them. And I thought, well, this like what can I do? I don't know.
00:52:58
Don't know how to handle it, you know. So, it was it was real difficult to get your head around. Yeah.
00:53:04
>> Did you think you might die? >> Yeah, for sure. >> For sure. >> What's that like staring death in the
00:53:09
face? >> Well, I don't know it was dramatic as that, but it's just, you know, when I
00:53:13
So, I was 48 at the time. And um you still feel quite young when you're 48, right? You think a lot of runway left.
00:53:19
So it was pretty healthy like apart from that and every other way I was healthy.
00:53:24
So you don't see death in the first but you just sort of think well it's something that's way way in the future
00:53:28
you don't have to worry about but now it could be in 6 months you know and uh what I did was kind of investigate all
00:53:35
the things you could do. So there was multiple courses of chemotherapy or different types you could do but there
00:53:41
was one regime where you could do two at once. So I said I'm going to do that which made the chemo a whole lot worse
00:53:46
but I did two at once. And then they said, "Well, that's good because that gives you an 80% chance of living better
00:53:51
than and I think the standard was 50% chance or something." So I thought, "Well, I'm going to do that."
00:53:56
>> Yeah. Much better odds. It's still It's not the sort of odds you want to play
00:53:59
with, is it? And then uh yeah, I went went to osteopaths and naturopaths and everything else I could think of. Got
00:54:06
introvenous, vitamin C, and just did everything I could think of. But you don't get an all clear for 5 years. that
00:54:11
probably is quite a long time to wait >> and you have to get a you know big checkup and CT scans and all those sort
00:54:17
of things pretty regularly afterwards and you sort of freak out when you you go and get those things done and um I
00:54:24
remember one of those the very very first one I had done which was a 3-month check and uh the radiographer because
00:54:30
normally you go there and they read them and they send them off to your doctor and you muck around for a week waiting
00:54:34
for the result which is deadly you know waiting waiting for those results but >> the radiographer was the son one of my
00:54:41
son's friends. Sorry, her son was one of my son's friends and um so she just said
00:54:47
afterwards, "You're good." So we found out straight away. So it was good. Yeah, it was good.
00:54:53
>> Going through something like that, does it give you um does it crystallize or
00:54:57
give you clarity about what really matters, what's important in life. >> Um you have to keep on living, don't you?
00:55:04
You just >> I don't think it really changed me that much. I mean, I haven't changed my
00:55:08
lifestyle or had any less stress or anything really, you know. I mean, it sure makes you appreciate what you've
00:55:13
got, but >> a lot of people kind of find religion, don't they? That, you know, a healthy
00:55:18
lifestyle and having no stress and, you know, the most important thing is, you know, something something that's not
00:55:24
business. But I wasn't like that. I just got straight back into it really never stopped.
00:55:27
>> How was your mental health over that time? >> What did that do to you mentally?
00:55:32
>> Uh, it was it was all right, you Oh, I mean I stayed positive. Yeah. I mean I'm different to my father
00:55:39
because my father had been going through it and um you know when he was such a pessimist you know you you'd say how you
00:55:48
feeling and he goes all right for someone who's about to die you know he's just always like that and he went he
00:55:53
went to one or two sessions of chemo and said I don't like this I'm not going to
00:55:58
do it you know it was complete opposite me I was going to do absolutely everything.
00:56:01
>> Yeah. Find a solution. >> Yeah. Do you think that's your um analytical business brain?
00:56:07
>> Oh, >> like you you've got a problem so you're just determined to find a solution.
00:56:11
>> Definitely. And not and keep trying, you know, like I think a lot of people just
00:56:15
give up. It's like the seven ask for the order seven times, you know, you don't give up, you keep trying. So that was
00:56:21
always been my mentality. >> Interesting. So those sort of those lessons that you'd accumulated over your
00:56:25
business life may have helped in a way. What what scares you now >> after going through something like that?
00:56:34
Well, I mean, you do you do fear death, don't you? And I think as humans, we kind of ignore it. It's it's weird. I
00:56:40
don't think about it every day, but the older you get, the more you think of it,
00:56:43
don't you? So, >> there's some some end to it unless science improves pretty rapidly.
00:56:47
>> Yeah. >> After that, you co-ounded the um Gut Cancer Foundation in 2008. >> Yeah. Which is a really cool thing to
00:56:55
do. Um Yeah. you why why did you do that when you could have just like um you know you survived you could have just
00:57:01
drawn in a line line in the sand and put it behind you like setting up something
00:57:04
like that it forces you to sort of keep it top of mind and think about it in a way that that part was quite hard
00:57:11
because you have to live it all the time when and you're kind of part of the problem you know so it was difficult but
00:57:18
um I got originally approached by Richard Sullivan who's he's pretty high up in the government now maybe at the
00:57:25
top of the sort of medical world in the Uh but he introduced me to a guy called Michael Finley. He was professor at
00:57:30
Oakland Medical School. He's retired now. Another guy Paul Hardgraves who was the boss of Datacom and Paul Hardra had
00:57:37
had um some form of cancer. Um it wasn't bowel cancer, it was something else. But
00:57:44
anyway, he had had a cancer experience as well and said look for cancers of the sort of gut region from basically where
00:57:50
food goes into food goes out. There's no money spent on helping people with that.
00:57:54
So basically all the money goes to breast cancer. Women are better organized and than men are and uh you
00:58:00
know are more happy to talk about it and all that sort of stuff. So and he said there's just you know we want to do
00:58:05
clinical trials and we want to find out more and help save people's lives but there's no money. So you know Mike
00:58:11
Finley was the professor so he knew the theoretical side of it and Paul and I were business people and so he said we
00:58:17
want to do it with business people and raise some money for clinical trials and um I thought it was really good cause
00:58:22
and I sort of in that area sort of found religion so >> oh you have well not religion religion
00:58:30
but my sort of understood always was passionate about going and selling people to relieve them of money for the
00:58:36
charity. So um you know normally when you go to sell something you know you hope you sell it
00:58:42
but if you don't life goes on but in those days I was like people would say no I can't afford or something. I said
00:58:46
well you'd wish you had because the money you're going to give me is going to go into research and it might save
00:58:51
your life or someone in your family's life and I asked for a lot a lot more than seven times that you just got to do
00:58:57
it. We we raised a lot of money like millions of dollars >> and basically went through the rolodex
00:59:01
just people I knew with money and was pretty firm on asking them for it. How does how does that rate in terms of
00:59:07
things that you've done in your life that you're proud of? >> Um well, it's up there, but I don't I don't
00:59:13
feel any more proud that it's a charity because I think in business, you know, you do lots of things that are good for
00:59:18
people as well. I mean, obviously there's a close connection with health and those sort of things. You
00:59:22
>> if you can save someone's life, it's a fantastic thing that you're able to do,
00:59:25
but >> you know, if you look in business, if you know, if you look at our Turners
00:59:29
business now, we got 700 staff. We've got 6,000 shareholders. you know, we're affecting lots of people's lives in a
00:59:36
very positive way. >> You know, enabling them to live a better lifestyle, have a job,
00:59:41
>> they pay tax, which makes the country run, all that sort of stuff. So, I I feel good about that stuff as well.
00:59:46
>> You're creating jobs for 700 people. That's awesome. >> Yeah. >> That's really cool. Really satisfying,
00:59:50
eh? >> Yeah. And the other thing is, you know, a lot of these businesses we've sold
00:59:53
have sold to overseas interest. Like that 138 million for 42 below that came from overseas. So, that's that's money
01:00:00
straight into New Zealand's coffers that wouldn't have been there otherwise. And
01:00:03
it's not like selling an asset that's already there. It's not like selling land or something. It's something we
01:00:08
created. So, >> yeah, it's a big deal. >> So, I mentioned before um the thread through your book is um Ferraris and
01:00:16
buying um high performance cars to celebrate little wins in life. Did you when you got the um the all clear with
01:00:21
the cancer, did you celebrate with a with a car? >> Oh, was that was my goal setting along
01:00:26
the way? So, um when I when I was in the midst of all the chemo and stuff, I thought, well, I'm old now. I'm going to
01:00:32
have to slow down. So, I thought I want a Bentley. And I'd seen this car called a Bentley Azure, which is a big sort of
01:00:39
boulevard, convertible Boulevard sort of cruiser. And I remember 700 grand, which
01:00:44
was lots of money for a car 20 years ago. Um, lots of money for a car now. And um I I put it up on the inside of my
01:00:51
wardrobe door. So, every day I open the wardrobe, a picture of this Bentley. And
01:00:54
I thought, when I've done this, I'm going to buy this car. And it just I don't know it gave me it's not
01:00:59
motivation but it's just you know something good is going to happen in the future even though it's crap now.
01:01:04
>> That's interesting. That's like um I don't know if you call it this but it's like a vision board.
01:01:09
>> Something like that. Yeah. >> So did you get the Bentley? >> I sure did. >> Yeah.
01:01:13
>> Yeah. Why aren't you more into Ferraris aren't very nice to drive? Eh. >> Oh, I wouldn't say that.
01:01:20
>> In terms of maybe it's different on a track, but you drive it on the like a residential street. It's like a Bentley
01:01:25
is far nicer, isn't it? It depend. It depends. It depends. Like it's what it's what you like because um
01:01:31
I mean these days you could drive a Ferrari every day depending on which one. But there's plenty of cars you
01:01:37
could use as an everyday car and you'd be quite comfortable in it. Like >> the newest car I've got, it's got
01:01:42
massaging seats and heated seats and ventilated seats and >> you know things like getting in and out
01:01:48
of them. Bit difficult compared to a normal car. But >> yeah, it's not but it's not it's not a
01:01:53
vently that's for sure. >> Yeah. the the Ferrari things strikes me as being um strange with your
01:01:59
personality type because you're sort of you're this business guy. You're sort of
01:02:02
under the radar, sort of behind the scenes like with 42 below like it was you know Jeff Ross was like the face of
01:02:07
the brand yet it's a very showy car like it draws a lot of attention to yourself.
01:02:12
>> Well some it's not a Lamborghini is it? So it's not not quite that showy but um
01:02:19
it's funny. I don't even care about that either too. I just think if people look
01:02:22
at me and they don't like it, I don't care cuz I like it. But um the whole the whole Ferrari thing is very interesting
01:02:27
when you get into it because it's like being part of a family. Um I've got right into it. I bought I just this year
01:02:34
bought my 50th Ferrari. Obviously I haven't got them all now, but um you know I could tell you a story about
01:02:41
um when I sort of came up the Ferrari hierarchy. I I didn't even know all the stuff existed. I just sort of bought and
01:02:47
sold cars. But I bought a Ferrari Enzo in the UK and uh all of a sudden I was on
01:02:53
Ferrari's radar cuz that was a pretty high-end car and uh I got a call from the dealer here and they said you know
01:02:59
can you be in Marinelo like next week and I said like what for? I said I can't tell you but you should go and I got
01:03:05
there and um I met a guy called Enrico Gallier who's one of the directors of Ferrari and had lunch with him in the
01:03:11
Ferrari boardroom and I'm going like what the hell is this about? you know, and he goes, "Oh, we just wanted to meet
01:03:17
you, you know," and said, "Why?" And he goes, "I'll show you something." So, we go into this room and see the new La
01:03:23
Ferrari, which hadn't even been released at that time. No one had seen it. Just thought I'd show you this. Cool. I want
01:03:30
one of those. He goes, "Well, we will see." I said, "Oh, so it was Yeah, it was a crazy
01:03:41
introduction." He said, "We will see." And I I said, "But I'd like one, you know, like I I want to buy it." And he
01:03:46
goes, "Well, I can't do that now." He said, and I said, "Why am I here?" Cuz I finally figured I was there to buy this
01:03:52
car. He said, "No, no." He said, "We just want to get to know you. We're a family and we want to work out whether
01:03:57
you're fit in our family because we only want these cars to go to family." And uh
01:04:02
Enrique is there and now and I get on really well with them. Really good relationship. But yeah, it took it took
01:04:07
me six months to to be allowed to buy that car. It seems like a weird business model.
01:04:12
>> It is. It is. It was a very successful one. >> Yeah. >> Um, so you you stole your first Ferrari,
01:04:19
>> didn't you? You talk about this in the book. Yeah. Your very first Ferrari. You
01:04:23
drove off without >> Oh, yes. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, I did. I did. >> Yeah. It was um I bought it off Tim
01:04:29
Bailey, who was the founder of Continental Cars. Yeah. And he um that was when we sold the Empire business.
01:04:35
Was it Empower? >> I think so. It was 1999. Anyway, >> um yeah, I always wanted one. I I'd test
01:04:42
driven one before that, but didn't couldn't really afford it. So, but anyway, I could afford it then. So,
01:04:47
yeah, went up there and u met with Tim and I. I knew him quite well cuz I bought Porsche and things off them. And
01:04:52
um showed me the car and I drove it. I said, had to go home and check the head office that it was all right. But Donna
01:04:58
said it was okay. So, right, we're buying this Ferrari. And I always remember the model was a 550 and it was
01:05:03
550 grand. So, which is heaps of money for a car in 1999. like you buy a pretty decent like a decent house by that much.
01:05:10
>> Yeah. >> But anyway, we we bought it and I took took it home and when I got home I
01:05:16
thought I paid for this. Like I r him up and say, "I realize I haven't paid you." And
01:05:22
he goes, "Oh, we know where you live." It was just a funny experience. >> Yeah. >> They'll catch up with you sooner or
01:05:28
later. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um when did you Is there a moment where you decided to make Ferrari
01:05:33
part of your persona? You you got a massive Instagram following. you've got like 76,000 followers or something and
01:05:38
it's you're sharing like um all your car stuff. It's mainly a feed full of Ferraris.
01:05:43
>> Is there a moment where you decided that that was going to be you know your persona?
01:05:47
>> Um it wasn't any conscious decision really. I I wasn't into social media at all like
01:05:53
my kids were and my wife was and I thought it was pretty wanky. You know, I didn't want to know anything about it.
01:05:58
But a mate of mine who lives in Singapore, he's got quite a few Ferraris. I met him through racing
01:06:04
Ferraris and um he was on Instagram and he had 25,000 followers and I said oh like why are you doing that? He goes,
01:06:10
"It's really cool. You know, you get to meet you get to meet lots of people through it and you know, people are
01:06:14
interested in what you're doing and you know, you you should do it." And he said, "Sometimes people pay you to put a
01:06:19
product on there." He someone was paying him to wear Ray-B band sunglasses. He said, "You should do it." So, I started
01:06:24
doing it with him and we did a few road trips and stuff. Went up to the UK and if you look years back at my Instagram,
01:06:30
it's me and him cruising around places in Ferraris and Europe and England and stuff. And um yeah, I don't know. I just
01:06:37
got a taste for it and kept doing it. And it's it's interesting. I don't get any
01:06:42
crap on it at all. I don't get people abusing me or anything and not telling me I'm a show off. They just people say,
01:06:48
"Thanks for showing us." You know, you never get to see this stuff normally. So,
01:06:51
>> yeah. >> Yeah. What are you Yeah. Um, listen, no one's no one's trolling you or writing
01:06:55
mean comments um in social media. >> Very seldom. Yeah. >> What what what is your um perspective or
01:07:02
experience with tall poppy in New Zealand? >> Um I had a lot of problem with it. The only
01:07:09
the only thing that was sort of weird I found is that you know I'd go back to my
01:07:14
parents again because it's kind of like you know you're a bit of a loser. You'll
01:07:18
never get anywhere. And when you do I sort of thought they might say oh well done. You've done a fantastic job. But
01:07:24
they used to say things like you're lucky you met Eric aren't you? you know, things like that, you know, it's it's
01:07:30
not like you've done anything good. >> So, a little bit of that, but no, no, no real haters. Not that I know of.
01:07:36
>> Yeah. Um, what's the point of having a car like like a Ferrari when you know you can you
01:07:42
can only go as fast on the open road as someone with a Suzuki Swift. >> Well, you'd be surprised. I have lost I
01:07:48
have lost my license twice. >> Are you Are you constantly riding the Dearitz? >> No, I'm not anymore cuz I've just
01:07:54
decided not to speed. Well, not just probably five years ago, but I I just got in so much trouble so many times.
01:07:59
So, I just thought, >> you know, had radio detectors and all that, but I just thought, you know,
01:08:03
there comes a time when I've got to not do this. So, we do a my wife and I do a thing every year in Italy called Ferrari
01:08:09
Cavalcade and you can take a car over there and it's usually in Italy. And in Italy, if you drive a Ferrari, there's
01:08:16
there's no speed limit. They don't care. You see a cop, they go, you know, put your foot down. It's like a religion
01:08:21
there. So once a year I get to go as fast as I want and you know we've done you know 300ks plus and on the auto
01:08:30
stratas and stuff and >> what's that like? What's it like going 300ks an hour? >> It's pretty wild
01:08:37
come up on you very fast. Yeah. Yeah. I but >> I don't know the math of it but you're
01:08:42
covering a kilometer in a few seconds you know and um even if you've got a clear stretch of road the next you see a
01:08:47
car up there and you're miles away and all of a sudden you're on it like really really quickly. So,
01:08:52
>> is it terrifying or exhilarating >> or both? >> Uh, well, I'm sort of concentrating on
01:08:58
it, but the well, all the phrase I've got, they've got it like a um a screen on the passenger side. So, I say to
01:09:05
Donna, so you watch that, take a video of it and I'll just be watching the road, you know. So, yeah, it's probably
01:09:12
probably a bit scary if you're going to balance it out, but >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> So, you're involved with Liam Lawson as
01:09:20
well, are you? Are you do you used to have Liam Liam Lawson management or is that sort of now that he's in Formula 1
01:09:25
or is that is it job done and you're not involved anymore? >> No, I'm still involved. So um there's a
01:09:30
a group of us who helped him in the early days. So I got introduced him when he was 15 and we had a partnership um
01:09:38
with a few guys um who helped raise the initial money for him. >> So the the first sponsorship money he
01:09:46
ever got came from me. Um, so I put you 160 grand into him and we got Turners on
01:09:53
as a obviously I have some influence there. So we got them as a commercial sponsor. So his first commercial sponsor
01:09:58
and then there was a bunch of other people who who helped him in the early days too. But we kind of ran him as
01:10:04
management and fundraising and accounting and everything else. But >> Guilt Traps put money in, Porter Group
01:10:09
out of Hamilton. Um, David Dicker out of Christ Church put a lot in. Um, people don't appreciate how much money you need
01:10:15
for that, but he's had, I would say, best part of $15 million put into him, you know, to get him where he is.
01:10:24
>> Um, so in terms of do I have anything to do with him now? So the whole partnership we had is sort of dropped
01:10:30
off and doesn't happen anymore. And he's managed by CIA, which are commercial artist agency. So they're sort of um for
01:10:37
musicians and actors and those sort of people, but they have a sporting division and they manage them. But I
01:10:42
still help him out with stuff. So I store all his um obviously every every race weekend he goes to he gets three
01:10:47
helmets and then doesn't need them anymore. So I store all that stuff for him and I help him with his personal
01:10:52
finance stuff. So the money he's making, I make sure he doesn't go and blow it all.
01:10:56
>> Wow. So you're still in regular contact? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I have a lot to do with him.
01:11:01
I've been to three races this year. >> Um as you said, it takes um so much money to get to the get to the point
01:11:07
where you're you first of all you need to be a great driver. Yeah. Um but then so much money and investment to get to
01:11:12
Formula 1 level. Um is he earning good money now? Do you earn good money as a Formula 1 driver? Is that public
01:11:17
knowledge or not really? >> Well, you do earn good money. Yeah. And I would say I mean I wouldn't reveal
01:11:22
what what he earns, but you know, decent. I'd say at the bottom end, you know, if you take salary and
01:11:28
endorsements and those sort of things, you know, it's a couple of million dollars, US dollars, right up to, you
01:11:32
know, if you max probably $100 million. Yeah. >> Um and do do you do you get any of that?
01:11:39
you and the other investors get any of that money back. Now, I know Scott Dixon had some sort of arrangement which was
01:11:43
um sort of dissolved, but he was going to give a percentage of earnings, >> which which he did do. He did do that.
01:11:48
Yeah. It wasn't a percentage of earnings. It was just a I'll give the money back plus a little bit extra, you
01:11:53
know, sort of like interest. >> Yeah. >> And it was in Scott's case, I know it was sort of predetermined. So, you put
01:11:58
$1,000 in, you might get 2,000 back or something. Don't know the exact numbers, but um yeah, we we had kind of two deals
01:12:04
with Liam. So, one was you just put money in. So things, you know, a lot of those people I mentioned just gave
01:12:10
money, don't expect anything back, but there are some people who want money back as well. And um
01:12:15
>> cuz you you've got a business, as we've established, you're very businessminded.
01:12:19
So um what's the ROI for you with this 15-year-old kid? >> Oh, I'm just passionate about cars and
01:12:26
motorsports. So there was no ROI on that. And I I've never made a send out at all. It's done has cost me money. But
01:12:31
what I can do is go, Liam, I'm coming to Monaco. can you get me in the pits, please? And it's just done, you know.
01:12:38
So, >> incredible. >> Yeah. So, I've been to this year been to Australia, um, China and Japan and yeah,
01:12:46
got the pit passes and, you know, you hang with the team for the weekend and all those sort of things and go in with
01:12:52
to the track with Liam and his car and, you know, get out of the car with all the fans there and all that sort of
01:12:56
thing. So, that's that's my payback. >> You talk about this in the in the book like you were a Formula 1 fan from like
01:13:02
a little boy. you, you're a big fan of Bruce McLaren back then. Um, when you're in the pits in Monaco or wherever it
01:13:08
happens to be, do you feel like that little boy from Mangadi again? >> It I'm sort of used to it now cuz I've
01:13:14
done it a lot of times. But the first few times like I when we're in Japan, I went with some friends to Japan and I
01:13:19
got them in there for the first time. So, I managed to get eight passes into the pits just for the qualifying, which
01:13:24
was quite hard to get, but I got them because of the relationship with Liam. But I used to be like these guys I took,
01:13:30
you know, they're just can't believe I'm here. You know, you're seeing at the car
01:13:33
come in for the pit stops, the changes, the tires and all the timing screens and
01:13:37
all the strategy going on on the headphones. You hear the all the radio messages cuz what you hear on TV is only
01:13:43
part of it. You don't hear it all. >> So, it's really interesting hearing it all. And you you also get to hear both
01:13:48
drivers. So, yeah, you get to hear his teammate as well, which is always interesting.
01:13:52
>> Incredible. >> Yeah. And so, what was what was he like? Do you remember the first time you met
01:13:55
him? This 15-year-old kid? Yeah. So, I'd helped a few guys out o over the years.
01:14:02
Some, you know, reasonably well-known people. I've helped Matt Holidayiday quite a lot. Um, Fab Cardi raced in
01:14:09
Supercars and few others. Um, and I sort of said, "Oh, you know, there is no ROI
01:14:15
on it. I've done enough." And, uh, the guy got approached by his name is Grant McDonald.
01:14:22
He'd helped Liam out in the early days. He had a publication called Speed Sport magazine and he did a scholarship. So I
01:14:29
think it was when Le was about 13 and he raced in this class called Formula Formula V and Grant McDonald helped him
01:14:36
out with that and he raced in Formula V. I don't know if he won it or not but then he managed to raise some money and
01:14:44
what all the Formula 1 drivers would have done they raced in a series called Formula Ford. So it's a sort of
01:14:48
low-level open wheeler and Liam had just won that. So he was the youngest winner
01:14:52
of it in the world. He'd won 15 out of 16 races and he was just, you know, class ahead of anyone else. So Grant
01:14:59
McDonald came to see me and said, "Look, I've got this kid. I think he's absolute
01:15:03
genius, you know, and he didn't actually want much at this stage." They he'd won
01:15:08
the Formula Ford championship. And he said, "We want to get into Australia and he's got a free drive over there, but
01:15:14
can't afford the airfares to go to Australia. We're just all on the bones of our ass sort of thing." And he said,
01:15:18
"Do you want to meet him?" So I said, "Oh, okay. I can't meet him." So, I met him and um yeah, he's just um always say
01:15:25
he's the complete package. So, he's a good driver, but he's you couldn't help but like him if you met him, you know,
01:15:31
he's just like a really nice, personable person, you know, very articulate and yeah, you just sort of feel warm about
01:15:38
him. So, I met him and it was like two grand or something. Send him to Australia. So, I said, "Oh, bug. Okay,
01:15:43
let's do the let's do the two grand." and um he went to Australia and he went into Formula 4 and um he'd never driven
01:15:49
that type of car before and he came second in the championship straight off and he won his first race. So absolute
01:15:55
cold won his first race against much more fancied people. So yeah, and it just sort of started from there. We
01:16:01
thought, man, that's pretty cool. You know, we got something here and yeah, a group of us got together and it just
01:16:08
sort of it just sort of went from there. I remember um one of the guys on the on the board
01:16:15
said to me like if we're going to get for formula to one we need more money and we got to start by someone putting
01:16:20
some money in. So he said, "Why don't you do it? Put 100 grand in. Thanks very much for spending my money." But uh
01:16:27
yeah, but anyway, I I I did it. And then on that basis, I went to see Guild Traps
01:16:34
and said, "Well, look, I'll put 100 grand in this. So, could you do the same?" And uh remember my first reaction
01:16:41
that was quite funny cuz I I was going to see um one of the Guilt Trap boys, Richard, but Colin was there. He said,
01:16:47
"Oh, you're coming about that kid, aren't you? you get nothing out of me. That's not a good start. But anyway, I
01:16:54
did get I did get something out of him via his son. So they put some money in and then yeah, we went sort of porter
01:16:59
porter group in Hamilton and it sort of went from there because sort of success breeds success and
01:17:04
>> yeah ended up raising a lot of money for him and I mean we had to pay for him to
01:17:08
live in Europe. So because not only paying for the drive in the car, >> you've got to get him to live somewhere.
01:17:12
So he went to live in Europe at 15 years old. maybe just 16 at that time and we found a family for him to live with
01:17:18
there, you know, sort of surrogate parents for him and >> yeah, he's lived away from home since
01:17:22
then. >> God, he must feel a huge debt of gratitude. You always think not enough,
01:17:28
but it's it's kind of funny because he's so famous now and I think, you know, he's
01:17:34
famous in New Zealand, but you don't understand the worldwide fame, >> you know, like I just in China and
01:17:41
Shanghai, you know, I was going to the track with him. So, I was staying at a different hotel. So, I go to his hotel,
01:17:46
wait for him to come down, and I mean, there's 10,000 screaming Chinese people outside wanting to mob him, you
01:17:54
know, like security guards around and, you know, you get into the car and there's people jumping in your path.
01:18:00
It's like, it's surreal really. You know, the fame. >> Well, there's so few Formula 1 drivers,
01:18:06
isn't there? It's such an such an elite elite group. And we talked about ROI before. I suppose the ROI for you is
01:18:12
getting them getting them there. Like that's it. Job done. >> Yeah. Because the chances of doing that
01:18:18
are so slim. Like >> as you say, it's 22 drivers >> and you've got to have a thing called a
01:18:23
super license before you can drive in Formula 1. So just to have enough experience to get a super license, very
01:18:29
few people have them. So >> I don't know, there might be 22 drivers. There might be another 20 people that
01:18:33
have a super license, but you know, that's it. So >> have have you ever had a go at driving a
01:18:37
Formula 1 car? >> Would you be able to? What do they drive? >> I don't think I'd be able to. No. No.
01:18:43
No. Why? >> Well, they put they're very ar aerero biased. So, it's not like normally in a car like a road car, you
01:18:54
just have mechanical grip like your tires hanging on. >> But in a Formula 1 car, you have a lot
01:18:58
of arrow. So, it pushes you into the ground. So, you sort of surpass what you think you could go around a corner at by
01:19:04
a lot. >> They pull about 6Gs going around a corner. So if you think something like
01:19:09
your head weighs 10 kilos, all of a sudden it's 60 and you're trying to hold it up with your neck.
01:19:13
>> So it's very very physical, like super super physical. So I think you'd have to
01:19:18
be a pretty good athlete to do it. And if you don't drive them fast, they basically won't drive. If you don't
01:19:23
drive them fast enough cuz the >> the tires aren't hot enough that there's not enough air going on and that sort of
01:19:28
thing. I drove an Indie car once, which is, you know, similar to a Formula 1 car, but not as much. And I did drive
01:19:34
it, but it was Yeah, it was pretty pretty poor. I was pretty useless. >> Yeah. >> Um, and do you sort of allude in in the
01:19:42
book to Liam Lawson maybe putting out like an album one day? >> Well, he he's a good musician. Like he
01:19:47
can sing and play guitar. Yeah. >> What sort of genre? Like what sort of style of music?
01:19:51
>> Uh, all sorts, you know, everything from rock to rap to country. Yeah, he's he
01:19:57
did um by correspondence went to the London School of Music, so he passed all the grades there and stuff. And his
01:20:02
dad's good guitarist, too. He plays in a band and stuff, >> but he's he's got a good singing voice
01:20:06
and yeah, and he is a very good guitarist. >> Whether it's um like a Liam Lawson or a
01:20:12
Jeff Ross, what do you look for in people before you invest in them? Whether it's time or money,
01:20:18
>> oh, I suppose potential, isn't it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You just believe they they they
01:20:24
can do what they say they're going to do. >> I've got a card here called um entrepreneurs and money.
01:20:31
>> Oh, yeah. So, um, do you follow the NBR rich List? Do you do you know what you're worth on the NBR rich List?
01:20:38
>> I don't think I'm even on there, to be honest. I I have been on there in the past, but
01:20:42
>> you know, the reality is they don't really know what people are worth. I mean, they can only look at they only
01:20:46
look at public records and stuff, so >> I must admit I haven't looked at it for a while, but yeah, I don't think I want
01:20:51
it anymore. >> It says 130 million. >> Oh, it doesn't. Okay. >> Would that be would that be about right?
01:20:57
>> Well, bit on the low side. I pro I probably shouldn't say but >> do you what do you does New Zealand have
01:21:06
a a cultural problem with ambition and and wealth >> oh I I think yes >> yeah I mean said before you know the the
01:21:14
sort of victim mentality >> um I think there is a lot of that and you know if you if listen to the news
01:21:21
every day you know it's like it's just these are all the problems we've got and you know these are how useless our
01:21:28
politicians are and you know the stuff is going on with Rod Drury at the moment, you know. I don't really believe
01:21:34
that, you know. It's just It just seems an over-the-top reaction. Yeah. Just Yeah. I don't know. You've just find
01:21:43
It's definitely not all New Zealanders, but there's just a general kind of underlying apathy.
01:21:49
>> You know, >> you know, we don't strive to be the best >> on on average, I don't think.
01:21:56
>> Yeah. It's interesting that, isn't it? I I wonder if some of it's like rooted in
01:22:00
jealousy in a way or >> I don't know or just not thinking big enough. What do you reckon?
01:22:05
>> Yeah, I I don't know if there's too much jealousy. I mean, there's definitely a
01:22:08
bit, you know. I mean, >> everyone who hasn't got money wants money and they're happy if they get it
01:22:12
off someone else, you know, but it's it's sort of a it's a belief and a drive. Like if you go to the US,
01:22:18
everyone's trying to get ahead there, >> you know? They they all want to get ahead. And if you get if you get ahead,
01:22:24
mostly they think you're a good person. Well, yeah. Well done. how can I do the same thing? And there's lots of people
01:22:29
here like that. There's lots of people, but there's lots of people who aren't like that, too. And I just think that's
01:22:35
and you get this other thing where people, you know, they have small ambitions. So, they might have a small
01:22:39
business and then they pay the house off and they buy a boat and a batch and think, you know, job done. So,
01:22:44
>> you know, they don't they go to the next level. They just, yeah, I'm satisfied
01:22:47
with that. >> Yeah. They have a have a ceiling like the conversation you had with your mate
01:22:51
about wanting to be worth 20 million and then you smashed that ceiling and went to the next one. What what what was the
01:22:57
amount for you where um where you know you're quite comfortable and you don't need anymore and and it's like
01:23:03
diminishing returns? >> Oh, I don't have any amount, you know. I think I I think I'll just keep keep
01:23:09
going, but um yeah. Were you driven more in your early career by um fear of failure or
01:23:17
hunger for success? >> Oh, that's an interesting question, isn't it? I mean, what did Homer Simpson say? If you you
01:23:26
know if you don't try you can't fail you know so you're you're immediately in that aren't you? If you if you start
01:23:32
trying yeah you definitely have a fear of failure but >> you also have the desire for success. So
01:23:38
>> what do you still work and invest for now? Is it is is it for the money? Is it
01:23:42
is it accumulating more or is it just a thrill and fun? >> Um I don't really want any more money.
01:23:48
Well I want more money but because it can >> we can do stuff with it. I' I'd still
01:23:52
like more cars. I I love cars and like to spend more. Like we don't need more for our sort of lifestyle or anything
01:23:57
like that, but yeah, I'd like I'd love to have more cars. There's plenty on my wish list.
01:24:02
>> When when you when you see someone um with with a a PJ, a private jet, like do
01:24:06
you does it make you jealous? >> I just I'm not a jealous person at all. So, nothing makes me jealous. But when I
01:24:14
was when I was in China at the Grand Prix, I was one of the guys I was there with um he's one of those GFream G800s
01:24:21
and he was saying to me, "You've just got to get a jet." And I was saying, "Well, you know, that's not I can't
01:24:26
afford a jet." He's Oh, no. They're affordable. You know, some affordable to him, but not to me. Yeah. But uh he was
01:24:33
a he was a very wealthy guy and um you know like multiple billions. But he said funny enough he was saying I'm not a
01:24:40
materialistic person but he said the thing I absolutely love is the jet. >> Yes. The best thing ever bought.
01:24:46
>> Incredible. >> Yeah. >> Um yeah but buying it's one thing and then yeah the maintenance and the fuel
01:24:52
the ongoing cost must be through the roof. Well, these these guys have got six pilots, you know, because you know,
01:24:57
they fly you somewhere, then you got to have the next group to fly you to the next place. And
01:25:00
>> yeah, so it's a it's a I don't know. I think those those new Gulf Streams are
01:25:05
about 75 million USD >> and then Yeah. then the cost of running them. >> Incredible.
01:25:10
>> Um, what's something founders waste too much time on? >> I don't know. I haven't haven't really
01:25:19
thought about that. I mean, I think pro probably the risk for a founder, if you're a founder, you're probably not a
01:25:25
very good manager of a company because you got a different mindset. So, I think what I've seen over the years, and you
01:25:31
see it a lot, I mean, if you look at Apple and Steve Jobs would be a really good example of that. You know, founded
01:25:35
the company and they ended up sacking him because he wasn't good at admin and um you know, you're just different type
01:25:40
of people. So, I think >> yeah, probably what a founder shouldn't do is >> is maybe run their company, you know,
01:25:46
have someone else running it. >> Yeah. Interesting. What what's a hard truth about entrepreneurship that no one
01:25:50
talks about enough? >> Well, the risk, isn't it? >> The risk and the worry. You know, you
01:25:57
spend so much time worrying. You spend all your time worrying. Really? >> Yeah. If I go back to many businesses
01:26:02
we've had, you just I've been many times where I thought that's it. You know, it's I'm not going to recover from this,
01:26:08
but somehow you do. >> Yeah. What's the closest you came to losing everything or is it has it been
01:26:14
happened on many occasions? >> It's happened on a few occasions. Yeah. The one the one I remember the most is
01:26:19
in the early days of Blueest Star and um we were always on the edge there because we're
01:26:26
buying all these businesses and we never had enough money doing deals that we couldn't we couldn't afford to do really
01:26:31
but we were doing them anyway and uh we were basically always in the [ __ ] and as
01:26:36
I said before Eric had just disappear sometimes and he done one of his disappearing acts and uh you know I had
01:26:42
all my money in there. I had no other money. I didn't even own a car, I leased a car and I was feeling pretty pretty
01:26:50
vulnerable at the whole thing. And we had someone from we were funded by BNZ and we're on credit watch there and
01:26:54
they'd even put a person in our office and we in the days you had checks but we weren't even allowed to sign a check you
01:27:01
know so things were very tight and the phone goes and it's Eric and I said where are you and he go I'm in Palm
01:27:06
Springs office equipment conference so good on you know I'm here taking all this [ __ ] for you and he said no don't
01:27:14
have to worry anymore I've sold the company and I thought he was just [ __ ] me you know so I said oh yeah
01:27:18
how much do you get for it 100 million And I said, "Uh, oh yeah, okay, okay. Who'd you sell it to?" He goes, "Oh, I
01:27:24
sold to this company, Good US Office Products, this guy John Adi. I'm bringing him down next week, and you
01:27:29
know, it's all going to be good." And it proved that was the truth. But if that hadn't happened, I there's a fair chance
01:27:36
we wouldn't have survived. We were in a lot of trouble. >> Incredible. >> Yeah. >> What's something success gave you that
01:27:41
you didn't expect? I well it g it gives you it gives you a lot of worries weirdly enough. I mean
01:27:50
people I'm sure people won't feel sorry for me but it just you know having money
01:27:56
that you've got to think about it a lot. You know you can't just sort of you know
01:28:00
people always go oh you've got 100 million in the bank that must be good. But of course you don't have that. you
01:28:04
have a whole lot of investments and you've got to make sure that you know you've invested in the right things and
01:28:09
you've got to check them to make sure they're not going wrong and you got to be pretty vigilant about it
01:28:14
>> and I think there's always people trying to take money off you too because you
01:28:17
become a target so you got to be careful. >> Um so yeah it doesn't make you trouble
01:28:22
free that's for sure. >> Yeah. Does it become hard to trust new people around you?
01:28:28
>> I'd say yeah for sure for sure. I mean, I wouldn't have that many new people around me.
01:28:34
>> Yeah. Cuz you just be skeptical of people's intentions. >> Yeah. But as I said before, there's lot
01:28:39
there's lots of good people around. Some of these young guys I've got through. >> Yeah. You'd be amazed at the businesses
01:28:45
that are out there. This young guys sort of guys in their 30s that got fantastic
01:28:48
businesses. Just >> you'd never even know they existed. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But I like those sort of guys and
01:28:54
I've always feel I can trust them and they're not looking for money or anything anyway. Just looking for
01:28:57
advice. Um, what would um, teenage Grant sitting in a lecture at Teachers College
01:29:03
um, think of the man sitting in front of me now? >> I don't know what I would have thought.
01:29:09
I would have thought it couldn't possibly be me, you know. I just never would have believed it really.
01:29:13
>> Really? >> Yeah. >> When did you start to believe it? >> I think when we sold Blue Stars when I
01:29:18
started to believe it. >> Yeah. Because >> that was in your 30s. >> Yeah. I was 38 I think. Yeah. That's
01:29:24
when I started to believe because you you see all these things and you have all these plans, but you know, you
01:29:28
really think those are things that happen to other people. You don't think it's you. And all of a sudden, you know,
01:29:34
I had like $14 million and I had I could sort of couldn't believe it for a while.
01:29:39
It's just such a lot of money. And uh >> yeah, when when we' always been pretty skinned,
01:29:43
>> you know, we'd gone lived in Papa Newu Guinea for four years to try and make money and stuff like that, you know,
01:29:49
>> to actually have some money that you didn't have anything to spend it on. It was just like spear. It was it was
01:29:54
bizarre really. >> Yeah. We didn't even talk about the uh puppy and guinea years or um the early
01:29:58
businesses you had that that failed. Um it's just I mean it's been such a um such a rich and full life. You have to
01:30:05
sort of even with a long form podcast have to like choose what you leave in and what what you leave out. But I
01:30:09
suppose that's what the book's for. Um people can read that. But um yeah. >> Yeah. You you worked your [ __ ] ass
01:30:15
off. >> Yeah, I did. I like in my blueest star days and not many people appreciate this
01:30:20
but I used to have that thing I'm going to be the first in the office and I'm going to be the last out at night
01:30:24
because that way I could see what everyone was doing, who was working hard and who wasn't. So I used to be there at
01:30:30
7:00 in the morning and I wouldn't leave till 7:00 at night and I used to do that
01:30:32
every day for for years. Yeah. So, you know, people think you're lucky or something, you know, you earn your luck
01:30:39
for sure. >> Yeah, absolutely. And um and it comes with a huge amount of sacrifice like um
01:30:44
Yeah. I don't know when you your kids were born, if they were born in that time or not, but it's um like you're
01:30:48
sacrificing time, aren't you? >> Oh, you you can't get that back. >> You definitely are. Well, my my both my
01:30:53
kids were born at that time. >> Yeah. So, you miss out on a fair bit, for sure. >> What achievement are you most proud of
01:30:59
that no one sees? >> Oh, definitely family. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um what's the biggest mistake you've
01:31:08
ever made? Uh if you're looking for a financial mistake, I make quite a few, but the
01:31:16
most expensive one was um when zero listed, when Rod listed zero and uh I bought 200 grand worth of shares and
01:31:23
then when they got to be worth 400 grand, I sold them. And if I still had those, they'd be worth 40 million. So
01:31:29
that's kind of a big mistake. >> Yeah. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. >> Oh, you still I mean you still doubled
01:31:36
your money. >> I know. I know. It could have been better for sure. But um what are your best and worst habits?
01:31:46
>> Oh, pretty intolerant. Um that would >> Oh, yeah. You don't suffer fools. >> I say don't suffer fools. I just like I
01:31:55
don't know. >> You're intolerant with what? >> Oh, with every I just haven't got time for crap
01:32:03
sort of thing like you know. >> Have you always been at this or is this the same? It's it's developed cranky old
01:32:08
man syndrome. I've always I've always been a bit like this. But like yeah, I just Yeah, I'm just not interested in
01:32:14
sort of trivia and small things. I just like I just don't want to know that stuff, you know? The sort of stuff you
01:32:20
hear on the news here to be honest. Like I can just do without listening to any negative.
01:32:24
>> Yeah. It's just so negative. >> I think um I'm I'm a little bit younger than you, but I'm I'm in my 50s now. I
01:32:29
think um you you realize the importance of time as you get older. So you just have like less tolerance for just the
01:32:35
inane. >> Well, you do. And just people, you know, with problems like most people with
01:32:39
problems, they cause them themselves regardless of what they say. >> If you were to look back is why they got
01:32:44
a problem is their is their fault. It's not someone else's. Not always, but mostly.
01:32:47
>> Yeah. >> That's my experience. When you ever look into anything. So I just don't want to
01:32:51
hear your tale of why are your problems, you know? >> Well, yeah. As we talked about before,
01:32:55
like when um Eric Watson kind of kind of ripped you off when you bought into his
01:32:59
company, um you don't blame him at all in the book. you take um you know you take full responsibility for it. There's
01:33:04
a book I really like by this Navy Seal guy called Jo Willink called Extreme Ownership and it's about that in every
01:33:10
situation look for what your role was in it cuz that's the only thing you can control really.
01:33:14
>> He he is absolutely right because that's what I say to people who work for me.
01:33:18
You know I say even if it's not your fault you take responsibility for it make it become your fault and you find
01:33:23
out the solution. >> You know that's the only way to go is because as soon as you start blaming
01:33:27
something else >> it's your hands. Well, yeah, you can't do anything about it. >> So, that question before was what are
01:33:33
your best and worst habits? I think we we just got into >> just got the worst intolerance. That
01:33:38
might be a I don't know that could be your best thing as I would your best habit be.
01:33:43
>> Oh, I know habit probably attitude, you know. I'm very like glass half full type
01:33:48
of person. It's a problem in itself sometimes. But yeah, I always try to take the optimistic view of everything.
01:33:53
>> I I think to be um an entrepreneur, you have to be a glass half full person, don't you?
01:33:57
>> Yeah. you you have to believe things that normal people wouldn't believe >> but you know like you believe in crazy
01:34:04
things and they do come true you know >> so yes some other um entrepreneurs I've
01:34:10
had on the podcast I've had um yeah sir Rod Rury sir Peter Beck um Anna More Sonia Williams who's one of the founders
01:34:15
of Shis and they they all have that same thing in common just um >> just um this relentless positivity and
01:34:22
uh sort of you know belief and pride in New Zealand as well I think >> yeah like
01:34:27
Yeah. It's like expect the best and plan for the worst. That would be my sort of
01:34:31
theory on things. So, >> when was the last time you cried? >> Oh, when I was a child.
01:34:36
>> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> Really? >> Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Men don't cry in my in my book anyway. Yeah.
01:34:43
>> I find as as I get older, I'm I get more and more emotional. Really? Not even um
01:34:47
not even um a movie like Marley and me at altitude? >> No. >> No. >> Really? >> Absolutely not. You you you honestly
01:34:56
have never cried as an adult. >> No. >> Not tears of pride like when Liam Lawson
01:35:02
gets on the F1 track for the first time in a Red Bull car. >> No. >> No. >> Not when you get the all clear with the
01:35:09
cancer. >> No. There is no There is no time. Yeah. >> Not the birth of your kids.
01:35:15
>> No. >> Do you have any regrets? >> Look, not not really. I mean, you know, you can say I could have done stuff
01:35:24
differently, but that's life, isn't it? >> So, >> you know, I don't have any regrets.
01:35:28
It's, you know, I was saying before, I'm not a jealous person, you know, so I don't mind what happens to other people.
01:35:33
Good on them if they do better than me. >> You know, no point regretting something,
01:35:37
is it? I mean, the only thing you can do is get a lesson from something and don't
01:35:40
do it again. >> 100%. >> You when I had Steve Hansen on the podcast, he he had a saying. He goes,
01:35:45
um, yeah, we don't lo we don't lose, we learn. >> Yeah. >> And I suppose that's the thing with with
01:35:50
mistakes. as long as you learn from them and take something from them and yeah, >> course correct.
01:35:55
>> Um, say your your wife and your kids were in the room next door and they were asked
01:36:00
to come up with um three different words to describe you as a man. >> What would you like those words to be?
01:36:07
>> What would you like them to say about you? >> Well, dependable, reliable, good
01:36:12
provider. Probably >> one of those is two words, but yeah, I think I think I've been pretty good in
01:36:18
that regard. you know, like provided for my family and given my kids a good education and
01:36:23
>> given them a good house to live in and, you know, we've helped our kids out a
01:36:26
lot buying houses and those sort of things. So, >> yeah, I I would hope they would say
01:36:31
that. >> Are you proud of yourself? >> Yep. >> Yeah. I guess I wouldn't be here talking
01:36:38
to you if I wasn't. >> Yeah. How do you how do you find this sort of thing? This is this is your
01:36:43
first um long form podcast. >> It sure is. Yeah. Do you do you do you find it uncomfortable or are you okay
01:36:48
with it? >> Um, I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it because it's kind of like telling a
01:36:53
story, which I hope hopefully is beneficial to someone else. Um, >> I've done quite a lot of media
01:36:58
interviews, but they're normally someone giving a hard time about something business-wise, and I don't don't enjoy
01:37:03
that very much, but this has been this has been cool, actually. >> Yeah. Nice to reflect on some of the
01:37:06
stuff you've done. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, it's been really cool. It's been really nice to connect.
01:37:11
>> Yeah. Well, I appreciate you inviting me. Yeah. >> No, no worries. And best of luck for the
01:37:16
book. >> Uh, no pit stops, the business of going all in. >> Um, yeah. Who would get the most out of
01:37:21
that, you reckon? >> Like aspiring entrepreneurs or >> I reckon probably, but um, people who
01:37:27
like cars. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I think it's it's not a heavy read, is it? So >> yeah, if you just want something to read
01:37:33
and enjoy and not take you too long or take too seriously, I think it's hopefully people like that. Epic.
01:37:39
>> Hey, Grant. Thanks so much, mate. It's been really nice to meet. >> Yeah, likewise. Thank you. Heat. Heat.