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Jack Church, welcome to my podcast. Cool. Pleasure to be here. And this is your very first podcast experience.
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Yeah. Yeah. I haven't done anything like this. So, um excited. I think it was
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your someone I I hadn't even heard of you and uh someone I think it was your
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sister-in-law messaged me on Instagram saying you should get Jack on. Yeah. Yeah. She did that. Threw me under the
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bus or maybe gave me the best opportunity ever. So, we'll see how it goes. Well, you never know. But I feel
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like you're a from what I've learned about you um in researching for this
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podcast, you're a you're a guy that says yes more than no. Yeah, definitely. I'm
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always keen to say yes. And that was before um the time that changed my life, but even afterwards, still keen to say
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yes. Yeah. So, we're going to there's so much to the Jack Church story and we're
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going to unpack all of it. Um first of all, paint a picture of Jack Church before 2021. Who was that guy? Um that
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guy was uh sporty, athletic, um pretty much into health and fitness uh as a PT in the Navy, so physical trainer um in
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the Navy. And yeah, he was um just all about fitness and just coaching other people, getting other people to achieve
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their goals, getting people fit um to serve in the Navy and yeah, just loving life really.
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So you're you're a savage. So you you're like as fit as what anyone could be,
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like in the sort of top 2%, top 5%. I'd like to think so. Um, yeah, I was pretty
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fit. I was lucky to obviously be working in a gym, so I had the opportunities to
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keep fit, keep health, um, keep nice and healthy. Yeah, I was pretty fit. So, that was 2021. And then that was the um
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that was the year that your life turned upside down. So, you you're 26 years
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old. Yeah, correct. And and what what happens? What are the symptoms? Uh so the first symptom that I thought that I
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can remember was just like general fatigue like um sleeping like naps during the day and stuff which is not
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really normal for me. I'd be able to wake up, go to work and be fine for um right through to the night time. Um so
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that was sort of the first symptom and then eventually um I just got more and more fatigue. There was no pain though.
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There was no pain. It was just fatigue like just almost like um the hung over feeling like feeling hung over just
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drained sort of that was the vibe that I sort of got and that was the sort of first symptom that I noticed about me.
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And no amount of blue parade was fixing it. No amount of blue parade, no amount of water, no amount of any tricks or
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anything. Nothing. So So what do you what do you think? Cuz you're you're
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quite in tune with your body. Are you aware that something's wrong or you you
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think it's you're just getting older? What what do you think it is? Yeah, I
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thought um I thought I was overtraining. So, I thought, okay, maybe I'm pushing
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my body too far. Maybe I need to dial back and just add some recovery in and rest more and then allow my body to
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heal. Um so, I did do that. Dropped back the training. Um and nothing changed. So, I was like, okay, that's that's
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weird. Then I started to think, well, what could it be? Like, and then I started to have trouble breathing. So
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that was the next symptom that sort of came on like sort of shallow breaths, having to try and really focus on my
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breathing rather than just letting it happen uh naturally. Um so that was another symptom that sort of I guess
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started to trigger alarms for me. Um and then eventually I remember like starting
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to walk upstairs and having to stop at the top and that was like I was like, "Oh, okay. Something's definitely not
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right." Normally I could walk up a set of stairs and be fine, but I couldn't
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even get to the top without having a stop sort of thing. Yeah. And and at what point did you um seek some medical
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intervention? That was about then. Um so once Oh, you waited until you could barely climb the stairs. Yeah. Yeah. So
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I waited. How long what sort of time span are we talking? Uh maybe um it's hard to think, but I'll probably say
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around Feb that I had early symptoms. Then around it would have been like April that I finally went. So like two months
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10 weeks perhaps. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Of just Do you are you embarrassed
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now? Like you should see Definitely. When I look back on it, I'm almost like
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why did I wait so long? But if if you if you went at the earliest possible convenience, would it have made any
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difference? Um I don't know. Hard to tell. hard to tell to see where at what
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stage uh my heart was at and just where it was. But yeah, I don't know. It would
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have been interesting to see if I did go to that early stage what the I guess the
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rest of the journey would have been like and how it would have paid out. Cuz us men in New Zealand, we're notoriously
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bad for this. Oh, notoriously bad. And I'm example number one. Um yeah, so that's definitely been a learning curve.
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Yeah. If you're a PT and it gets to the point after a couple of months where
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you're you're napping through the day and you're struggling to walk upstairs,
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bro, there's some alarms going. So, and um Okay. So, you you you eventually uh
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get medical intervention and then um how long is it before they they figure out what's wrong with you? Uh so, I go to
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the doctors. We um I came with the symptoms of struggling to breathe. So, they initially thought it might be my
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lungs. Um, so they gave me an inhaler um, just to see if they could help open my
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airways um, and come back in a week and see if nothing's changed. And nothing
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did change. Um, so then I went back, we got another X-ray and that's when they
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found out that's when they seen like the size of my heart was pretty much normally obviously the size of your
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fist, but it was about this big. So it was coming across my sternum and that's
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when they sent me to Northshore Hospital and that was um 24th I think of May or 20 Yeah, 24th
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of May. Yeah, I think I got admitted into Northshore Hospital. What was that like? Was that scary? Uh confusing.
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Confusing. I'd say confusing. Yeah, not scary. Um once I seen the X-rays like, "Hey,
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just pop in to the Northshore Hospital. um they'll be able to do some more check
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some more diagnosis and then we'll be able to figure out what the plan is from
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here. So I just bought an overnight bag sort of thing thinking we'll just see
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what's going on really. So I didn't really have any fear or anything just
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confusion. Okay, maybe we'll find out the cause now. Um and yeah, so they they
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do they do some tests and things and then when do they figure out what's wrong? Yeah, so they ran some tests. Um,
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I remember being asleep in the Northshore Hospital. Um, and my flatmate was there and she could see like my
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chest, my heart beating in my chest and I was I think my heart rate was 120 beats per minute and I was asleep. Yeah.
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What would your resting heart rate normally be? Uh, 42, right? Wow. Yeah. So, it was nearly triple. Um,
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so we were talking just before I did this um um mountain run over the weekend, the Kepler challenge and uh I
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think at one point on the uphill I was looking at my watch and it was like 120 beats a minute. Yeah. Yeah. So you're
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going uphill while I was just sleeping. So it's crazy what the what the body can
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do. Um but yeah, so once that happened, run through some tests and then they said,
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"Hey, this is a bit bigger than what we can chew. We're going to send you to
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Oakland Hospital." And that was on the 26th. Yeah. 26th of May. So they 2 days
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later I was off to Oakland. And I think that's when I sort of knew, okay, like
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if Northshore can't deal with it and I'm going to Oakland, this is going to be I
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don't know bigger than what I thought, but I still was confused of what was going on. I didn't really have an actual
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diagnosis then. So it was all just more tests and more X-rays and all that sort of stuff. How long did it take to to
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figure out what the problem was? Um around about a month. Um so you're in hospital the whole time? Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah. So I was in hospital in a ward with old dudes. Yeah. Yeah. I was looking around going think I'm
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definitely the youngest by far here. Um we sort of felt out of place. I don't
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know if I'm meant to be in here. But um but yeah that was about a yeah I'd say a
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month of just test like inotropes doing this medication all these sort of x-rays
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IVs going up testing the heart everything and it was about yeah June end of June where they made the de
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um they came in and said yeah I think you're going to need a transplant and I
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was like oh okay um I think the first feeling that I had was relief. Um just cuz finally found the
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issue or like the problem and that there is a solution to the problem. So that was my first feeling of more relief than
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anything. What did you what what did you know about um like organ transplantation and
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in particular heart donation at that point? I'm guessing [ __ ] all. Yeah, absolutely nothing. Um it's just not
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something you hear about. I think think the year you got it done there were 14 transplants heart transplants in New
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Zealand. It's like that rare. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Um Um So when you get
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get told that is the like is the room spinning? Like what do you um No. No. Yeah. Like when I get told I think Yeah.
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It's a small relief. Like I was like finally cuz obviously I've been in hospital for a month and previous to all
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of this I'd been active. So I'm going stir crazy in there not being able to do
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anything, not be able to be myself and not be able to get outside. Um, so when they finally found the problem, I was
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like, "Okay, there's going to be a solution here and then I can get back on
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the road." So that's instantly where my mind went was straight to the solution.
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All right, now we can start. It felt like we could move forward now. Whereas in that whole month during hospital,
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it's just going like this. Like every night I was just like, what what's
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tomorrow going to look like? Jeez, you've got such a good mindset, eh? Where does this come from? You just you
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just wired this way. Is this how you were raised? Just learned. I think I think I just grew up around a good
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environment um around good people. It's hard to pinpoint where it came from. Um
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I don't know if the military had something to do with it as well. Just always trying to find the solution
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rather than dwell on a problem like cuz obviously that in a military sort of sense you you're looking at trouble
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straight away. So you always got to be looking for a solution. I think that sort of just those skills sort of just
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transferred across into this sort of situation um and the skills that I didn't know I had um until I got put
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into that situation. What what's the what's the solution if you sink an $80 million boat in some try
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and find another one. Get on trade me marketplace. see what's going um okay so you get told you need a heart
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transplant then um do do you start just googling furiously yourself or or do they do they do they give you like a
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bunch of scenarios like do they tell you what the success failure rate is and yeah so theos the nurses and doctors are
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really good um laid everything out um previously you know I've always learned
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about never Google what your symptoms are cuz it's always cancer yeah it's
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always kids always just death straight away so I'm just like okay we'll just
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stay off Google. Um, that'll be the best thing. Um, but yeah, I think the nurses
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pretty much laid everything out. Um, in my head when I got told transplant, I was like, well, I'm not the first. So,
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and it's like, what was it? 2021 then. Surely we've got a good system in place
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where the success rate should be high. Obviously, there's risk with any surgery, no matter how big or how small.
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Um, so I just tried to dwell on that positive side like, well, I'm not the first, like, and I won't be the last. I
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had faith in the doctors and trust that we'll be back out on the road. And for
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some reason, I just knew it wasn't my time to it's not my time. By the way, I
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really love that um that that saying you just used like dwell on the positive. Like I've never heard that saying
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before, but it's such a good way of framing things. Yeah. You dwelling generally is only associated with um
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like negative outcomes, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Most people Yeah. do associate
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that with negative 100%. Okay. And then Okay. So, you're you're good with it. Um
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then you tell your parents. Have you got a part you got a partner? Uh no, don't
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have a partner. But um but you've got Yeah. You got like parents or siblings
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or people that love you? What what's their reaction like when you tell them?
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Yeah, theirs was um Yeah, I guess probably worse than mine. Yeah. Is that was that when it
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sort of crystallizes it for you just what a big deal this is? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Um I remember sending a
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message to my flatmate saying, "Hey, I got to just check into hospital, check
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my heart." and sent that to mom and dad as well. And yeah, instantly they obviously pressed the panic button.
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Um but yeah, that's when yeah, they cuz parents live down in Nelson, so they
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were coming up. But yeah, that I think they were more worried than I was um to be I guess that's pretty fair. But yeah,
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I was too busy trying to get back on the road to worry about anything else. So yeah. So, what are some of the bullet
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points they give you? Like the the chance of um success, how long the heart lasts, uh what the outcomes are
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afterwards, what you can and can't do. Yeah, I can't remember the actual
00:13:01
percentage of success. Um but they did say on average a heart last 16 years and that's give and take like it's a
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ballpark figure. Obviously, there's so many factors involved whether how you
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treat it with your what you like with your medications, what your lifestyle is like. So, there's obviously so uh so
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much variance to that sort of ballpark figure. I've met people that have got 25
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years and are still ticking away. So, it's quite cool to meet those people and
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realize that 16 years. When I heard 16 years, I was like, "That's not long.
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That seems quite quick." Um, and then I'll be back under again. But yeah, when
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I met people at 25, I was like, "Okay, we'll be able to keep going with this
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sticker. My lifestyle is pretty I'd like to say it's pretty good in order to
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stretch that ballpark figure out." M and in terms of um like rigorous exercise
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and things afterwards, do they encourage you to be active or are you discouraged
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from pushing it? Yeah. So I was one of the first to undergo the study in hospital um from the physios where they
00:14:00
just um introduce moving as soon as possible after transplant. So in when I was in the ICU bed like I had to get
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minutes I think I t out 45 minutes a day but that could be anything from squeezing a ball and I'd start the clock
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moving my feet pressing against the bed any movement and then trying to get I guess movement as soon as possible and
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see if that um the outcome of that better rather than letting the body just sit and rest. M um so that from there
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again was another mental like win for me cuz being an active person and they're
00:14:35
like I need you to hit 45 minutes a day. So that was my focus every day in ICU. I
00:14:39
got to get my 45 minutes. And because it wasn't lifting a barbell or running up a
00:14:44
hill, it was just could be squeezing a ball. So I say definitely achievable. Um and obviously I had all the time in the
00:14:49
world at that point. I was just sitting in bed doing nothing. Um just yarning with old mates. Yeah, exactly. Um so I
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was like surely I can achieve 45 minutes. And then eventually, yeah, when I was healed, the
00:15:03
heart rate needed to stay down. I couldn't go straight back. My history of training is CrossFit. So, I couldn't go
00:15:09
straight back to CrossFit cuz it was too intense. So, I just had to monitor, I guess, my symptoms and just gradually
00:15:15
build that fitness back up and be patient, which is not my forte at all. Oh, we've only been going about 15
00:15:22
minutes, but um yeah, you're painting a very clear picture of just what an impatient fell you are. Um, okay. So,
00:15:28
you're just backing up a little bit. So, um, September 2021, that's when you went
00:15:32
on a wait list for a heart transplant. And what do they what do they tell you at that point? It's not a case of having
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like a store room or a freezer with with a bunch of hearts and they just grab one, right? Yeah. Yeah. Correct. So, um,
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what they tell you is, uh, we're going to put you on the active waiting list and that just means your
00:15:50
body's good to go and then you got to wait for a heart and that could be 1 hour to 2 years. You don't know, right?
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Um the bad part about this is that you have to wait for someone else's misfortune for your fortune. Um so that
00:16:03
was the hard pill to swallow. Um in terms of compatibility, what is it? Is it the same blood type? Is that Yeah. So
00:16:09
same blood type, uh same size or like relatively the size. So if you got like a 120 kg male, big ticker, you can't
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really put that into a 60 kg male cuz it just won't physically fit. Um so they
00:16:22
got to base on that and gender doesn't actually matter. Um, which I found quite
00:16:26
surprising. So, you could get a woman's heart and a woman could get a male's
00:16:29
heart. Um, imagine that if you suddenly became all emotional and be like, "Why
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am I crying at romcoms?" Yeah, exactly. Well, I didn't think Wicked the Musical
00:16:37
would be so sad. Yeah. So, personally um I was not keen for a woman's heart.
00:16:41
Nothing against women, but um I was like, "Yeah, I was like, that's interesting. Found that quite
00:16:46
interesting." But yeah, that's fascinating. So, so age doesn't matter.
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So, they're not looking for someone they're looking for a young heart for
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you. Ideally, ideally age has a little factor, but at the end of the day, like if the shoe fits, the shoe fits no
00:16:58
matter what the age was. Yeah. So, how long was it before um after being told that you know
00:17:06
heart Oh, by the way, what would have happened if you know the alternative? Say say it's a heart transplant or was
00:17:12
there medication they could have put you on or anything they could have done with
00:17:15
with your original heart? Uh so that's what they tried to do. So they tried to
00:17:19
do the uh medication, they tried to do theotropes, tried to bring it back down to a normal size, like cuz it was so
00:17:25
big, it was working overtime. They tried to bring that that heart um back down to
00:17:29
a normal size, slow the heart rate down, but just nothing was working. Um and a heart ejection fracture normally is 60%,
00:17:37
so you get pretty much pump around 60%. Mine was down to 5%. Um so it was pretty
00:17:43
much knocking on the door really. So they had to bridge the gap to transplant. So they put me on this thing
00:17:49
called a BVAD. So it's another open heart surgery. Um BVAD VAD stands for ventricular assistance device. So it's
00:17:56
just a pump in the left ventricle and in the right ventricle and that now pumps my heart for me. So I had these two sort
00:18:03
of cords coming out my stomach, these bags, these like manbag sort of things, batteries, and they were pumping my
00:18:08
heart in order to bridge that gap to transplant cuz they don't know if I would have made it. So if they just left
00:18:14
me there, it's like a ticking time bomb really. Um so they put these in and then
00:18:18
the VADS you can say on the VADS system for pretty much life really. Um so it's
00:18:23
just a I know America do put uh patients on for life whereas New Zealand we use it as a bridge to transplant so it's not
00:18:31
a forever thing. So how long were you were you going around carrying? Yeah. So that was uh July July the 11th or 16th I
00:18:40
think it was that I had that surgery. Um and then October 4th was when I had the transplant. So yeah, a couple
00:18:50
months. But those So you're at home or you Yeah. Yeah. So this was during that
00:18:54
big lockdown in Oakuckland. Um so if there was ever a time to do it, it was that time because the rest of the world
00:19:00
was still as well. So um I didn't actually have too much to do. Yeah. To do and neither did anyone else out there
00:19:06
in the world. That sounds really inconvenient. Doesn't sound like a long-term solution carrying around.
00:19:11
Yeah. They were pricks of a thing. Um, but they made me feel better than what I did not having them. Um, so I was
00:19:19
thankful for that. But yeah, they were very annoying. Like a shower, just to have a shower, transfer them into like a
00:19:24
wet bag sort of thing. Like a dry bag, sorry. Like put patches on it so it wouldn't the cords wouldn't get wet. The
00:19:30
whole shower would take about just an hour just to get everything sorted. So I had to sleep with them, plug them in at
00:19:36
night. So like almost like hook myself up to the power, the main power. So, I'd
00:19:41
be sleeping on my back with the bags right there. Um, so yeah, that all that sort of stuff was it was good cuz it
00:19:48
made me feel a lot better, but it was a pain in the ass in the in as well. How did how did you stay positive? Did you
00:19:55
stay positive? Cuz you you're not sure how long you're not sure if this is
00:19:59
going to be your new normal or how long this is going to be. Yeah, exactly. Um, did you did you get down in the dumps?
00:20:04
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. In that stage, that was probably my biggest down in the dump stage with these bags. They
00:20:09
were just I was trying to stay positive that it made me feel good, but they were
00:20:14
just honestly like so annoying. Um was hard to eat, shower, everything that I'd
00:20:19
normally do was just um a pain in the ass really. Um so yeah, I that would probably be my darkest time. Um and
00:20:27
definitely went deep deep into that dark time too cuz as soon as it pretty much unhook the power like that's it your
00:20:34
heart will pretty much stop. M so there was times where I was like not ready to pull the cord but had the thoughts of
00:20:43
just pulling the cord and then I just had to yeah pull myself out of that sort of mindset and realize that it isn't
00:20:50
forever like this is just a bridge like it's only a bridge like you would get
00:20:53
past this and that's pretty much where I had to keep looking once I dived into
00:20:57
those dig dark spots I was like we've got to look have to look forward thanks
00:21:01
for sharing that did you are you good at talking to people about this stuff or you just sort of work it out in your
00:21:07
Yeah. Um, definitely a classic male. Um, work it out on my own. Um, never really
00:21:13
told people that I went to those sort of spots. I mean, some people still don't
00:21:18
know now. Um, hi guys. Welcome to the podcast. Now they do. Yeah. Jack's sorry
00:21:24
in future he'll talk to you about these things. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think
00:21:27
my old man was the first one to ask me actually. He asked a hard question. and he's like, "Hey, did um this is going to
00:21:33
be a tough question to ask, but did you have like suicidal thoughts during your journey?" And it caught me off guard um
00:21:41
as Miles, we don't really talk about that or ask those questions. Um but I was quite proud of my old man for
00:21:46
actually hitting me up and asking that question. Um and I was relieved to get it off my chest to say, "Yeah, I did."
00:21:52
Um I definitely had those thoughts. Um but it was only for a very short amount of time and then I just had to push
00:21:58
through it. But yeah, he's proud of him for asking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It probably took a lot
00:22:05
of courage for him to ask, but but you, you know, I'm proud of you for telling
00:22:08
him as well, cuz you could have easily just been like, "Yeah, no, sweet." Yeah.
00:22:11
Yeah. Which is what pretty much I still do now. Really? Yeah. I I saw a therapist a while ago and she um she she
00:22:20
asked me at the time like she said uh you know, have you ever had you know, suicidal thoughts? And I I felt really
00:22:25
embarrassed about saying, but I'm like, yeah, yeah, from time to time. and she
00:22:29
made me feel good. She just sug her her fourth floor office at the time. And she's like, "I mean, you know,
00:22:41
you or I could just go out there and jump off the balcony now and it'd be over and done within 5 seconds." So, it
00:22:46
made me feel it was actually like a relief off my shoulders cuz I thought, "Oh, having these thoughts in itself is
00:22:51
not abnormal." Yeah. Um, it's just, I suppose, a worrying thing if you get
00:22:54
further down and you start to like implement a plan. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't try to shrug off the thought. I
00:23:00
was sort of acknowledged that I was like okay we have gone into this dark spot but yeah let's try and not go further.
00:23:08
Let's just look forward now. It's unnerving though like when you're a
00:23:11
positive and um optimistic guy like you and suddenly you find yourself you know thinking negatively. Yeah it was quite
00:23:18
triggering. Yeah it was a shock um during that time in the hospital because I was always so positive at the start. I
00:23:25
thought I won't get to that point cuz like there was all these counselors and
00:23:28
stuff that the nurses offered me support like cuz you know of the traumatic situation I guess but for me I was like
00:23:35
I won't get there I won't get there and for me to get there it was quite a like
00:23:38
shock and a realization that okay we did arrive here but in hindsight you can see
00:23:43
it makes perfect sense though right cuz fitness is such a big cornerstone of your life it's actually like part of who
00:23:49
you are as a person and suddenly that's stripped away. Yeah. And it as you say
00:23:53
it was suddenly like if you look at it in January I was swinging a barbell around running around and then in sort
00:24:00
of fe March born May I'm in the hospital. So yeah it was suddenly just gone. Yeah. And just not knowing not
00:24:08
knowing when the end was in sight just due to the nature of um heart transplants. So and that takes us to um
00:24:14
Sunday have I got the date right? Sunday October 10. October 4th. Sunday October
00:24:19
4. Uh 2021 5:00 a.m. you get a phone call. Yeah. Why is your phone not in flight mode or sleep mode? That was the
00:24:26
only time that I wasn't. Um yeah, I'm notorious for um having my phone in
00:24:32
flight mode. Um just so I don't get disturbed. But this time when I was waiting for the heart on the list, I was
00:24:39
like, I'm going to have to sleep with my phone on loud. Everything good to go. Um
00:24:43
cuz the surgeon tells you like when when we're ready to go, we're ready to go.
00:24:46
Yeah, pretty much. Um, obviously the benefit I lived in Devport at the time, so I was only just over the bridge
00:24:52
towards hospital. Um, and it was quite funny like my flatmate just started dating this guy.
00:25:01
Um, and the one night she's like, "Can I go stay at um his house?" I was like,
00:25:07
"Yeah, I'll be fine. Honestly, go stay. You've already done heaps for me. Go
00:25:11
have a night um with him." And then the one time that happens, I get the phone
00:25:15
call in the morning and she's got her phone on airplane mode, so I'm trying to
00:25:20
ring her in the morning. Hey, can you drive me to hospital? The the tickets arrive, you know, like um and then could
00:25:27
you not just get an Uber? Well, I could have, but me being me, her truck was right there, so I just jumped in the
00:25:33
truck and just drove over. I was like, "Wow, I got to get there." Yeah. It
00:25:37
serves It serves her right when she ends up with a Wilson's parking bill of $800.
00:25:40
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, I was like, "Ah, well, we just jumped in the truck."
00:25:44
Um, were you were you advised like not to drive at that point? Definitely. Yeah, definitely not not allowed to
00:25:49
drive with the bags. Um, it didn't help that her trucks are manual, too. So, I'm
00:25:53
trying to like push this thing with a weak chest at the moment. Um, but yeah, the feeling of that phone
00:25:59
call was quite I guess excitement really, like nerves, excitement, like fear. It all sort of
00:26:08
just cycled. And then one of the initial things like I was g like was grief because someone's just passed away
00:26:14
obviously in order for me to have this. Yeah. What do you what what do you know?
00:26:18
We'll get to um we'll get to um the um the donor's story later on. But yet what
00:26:24
what are you told about the heart and and the heart's origin? Nothing. Nothing. Yeah. So you pretty much get
00:26:31
told like it's a um I pretty all I got told was it was a young male similar age
00:26:37
and that was it. Um it is for security reasons um and medical and confidence sort of stuff but yeah that's all that I
00:26:45
got told. Yeah I was going to ask you about that like um there's a thing called survivors guilt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
00:26:52
definitely. Um and that guilt pretty much transferred into motivation really. I was like okay like I've just been given
00:27:03
the gift of a lifetime. Pretty much the gift of life really. um how can I sort of honor that and
00:27:11
instead of having that guilt survivor's guilt and using that okay what's next
00:27:16
how do we achieve stuff that will keep this person living just as much as me living pretty much [ __ ] you got a good
00:27:22
mindset e when was this the sort of realization was this in recovery in recovery okay yeah definitely okay so so
00:27:30
so you get you drive the truck there so so it's all um a real whirlwind what's
00:27:35
the time are you at hospital like 7 7 a.m. 6:00 a.m. Yeah. So, I got the Yeah, it was about 6:00 a.m. Um, they don't
00:27:43
[ __ ] around, eh? No, they don't. They don't. You're just straight in there. Is
00:27:47
it Is it the earlier you can get there, the fresher the heart is and the better it is or Yeah. It's all quality. Um, and
00:27:52
they always say potential. So, when they phoned up, they said, "I think we've got
00:27:56
a potential heart." And the reason why they say that is cuz you can get right
00:27:58
up to the table ready to go. Surgeon has a look at you, has a look at the heart.
00:28:04
No, not happy. and boom, you're back home and you're waiting again. Um, I
00:28:08
know three people that I met during this whole journey, they got two missed calls
00:28:14
or like two calls that they and on the third go they were had their transplant. Um, well, I was just lucky to get the
00:28:22
first one. Yeah, it was all quite a fast turnaround for you, eh? Yeah, definitely. So, once
00:28:28
I had that surgery, I had to go to physio to get fit enough to go again under the knife. um cuz I couldn't just
00:28:35
go from one surgery to the other. Probably wouldn't have handled it. So I had the first surgery, went to physio
00:28:42
and then the cardiologist me up say, "Hey, we're putting you back on the
00:28:47
active list. We think your body will be able to handle it." And then I think
00:28:51
yeah 10 days 11 days later that's when I got the phone call. So I was only on the
00:28:55
list for 11 days. Yeah. I mean this is probably a little bit a little bit sort of woo woo but I wonder if like your
00:28:59
positive thinking um had any sort of impact on the positive outcomes. You know what I mean? A lot there's a lot
00:29:05
obviously a lot of a lot of luck or you know bad luck as as it may be involved but um you know the way it happens so
00:29:11
quickly and so successfully for you I wonder if yeah part of that reflects on your energy and what you're putting out.
00:29:17
Yeah, I'd like to think so. Um but yeah. So um yeah. So what are your last thoughts before going under for surgery?
00:29:26
Yeah, that whole thing's a blur. Like I remember going to I remember arriving to
00:29:30
hospital um and then one thing I remember cuz I was cracking up is that you have to they have to strip all your
00:29:36
body hair. So I've got my flat mate eventually arrived to hospital um shaving my arm nurse shaving I'm shaving
00:29:44
this leg shaving that leg. So I was shaving my chair. It was like what the heck? So I remember just sitting there
00:29:48
like this um just cracking up. Um but your genitals and everything. Yeah. everything everything's got to go. And I
00:29:54
was just like, which is quite invasive, but um some people pay good money for that. Yeah, exactly. Well, if that's
00:29:59
your last thought, it's not a bad way to go. Yeah. And then after that, I just
00:30:03
remember sort of getting like um taken to the surgery room. I remember looking at it the table. Oh, like there were
00:30:10
everything and I that blank really. It's just gone blank after that. So, I don't know.
00:30:17
Yeah. what my thoughts were. And it's a massive operation, like um 11 hours. How
00:30:23
many how many staff in the room? Oh, I don't know, like a dozen or something.
00:30:26
At least a dozen. I remember when I walked in, I I counted about 10. And there was still more to come in. Cuz
00:30:32
they were like, "Oh, we're just waiting on a few more people." I was looking
00:30:35
around. I was like, "A few more?" Like, "You've got half the bloody hospital in
00:30:39
here now to me." But okay. But yeah. So, but yeah. 11 hours just like Yeah. Were
00:30:45
you do you remember? Were you nervous or you just like game on? No, it's like
00:30:49
game on. I just tried to think of that output. I was like cuz at this time for me it was long. Um when I look at the
00:30:56
timeline it's not but I was like we're finally one going to get rid of these
00:31:00
bags. Like I was stoked. I was like these bags going right off pretty much. I was like they're going to go. So I was
00:31:07
stoked about that. And then I knew the future after this was just going to go up. So, was there was there was there
00:31:16
like a like a chance like a like a chance that you could have died on the operating 100%. Um, I don't know if
00:31:21
there is a percentage on it. Um, there's obviously heaps of factors. Not all
00:31:25
surgeries take 11 hours too. Um, they had troubles getting the the motors and stuff out um of my heart, like getting
00:31:33
the old heart out with all the cords and stuff that it had in it. Um, I know they
00:31:38
clipped my lungs on the way out, so they had to repair that as well on that time.
00:31:43
So yeah, a lot of factors happened. What's the What's Have you got a big
00:31:46
scar or is it like Yeah, straight down the middle. Really? Can you show us? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So starts up here
00:31:52
and just go straight down. Oh, bro. And then all these two like scars are just from drains and everything. But yeah,
00:31:59
straight down the middle. Jeez. So they've got the Yeah, they've got the
00:32:03
rib cage right open, eh? Yeah. So, um, funnily enough, I wanted to see how they did it. So, yeah. Did someone have a
00:32:10
GoPro? Yeah. I want I asked to record it actually and they said, "Oh, no. It's
00:32:14
too like it's too long. It'll just chew up your phone." And I was, "Oh, okay."
00:32:18
But I really wanted to see how they cut you open. So, in ICU once I was a little
00:32:23
bit better, I asked a nurse to show me. And she's like, "Sure." And I was like,
00:32:26
"Yeah, I want to see it." So, she showed me a video on YouTube of just them
00:32:30
cutting the skin. Then they use a bone saw, cut the bone, and then they use like this vice thing and they just boom,
00:32:38
crack you open. And I'm just sitting there watching. Wow. That's what happened. I said, "That's why I'm in so
00:32:44
much pain." Yeah. And And so after the surgery, um you you you're in a coma for
00:32:50
like 5 days. Yeah. Correct. What do you remember from that time? Anything at all? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Um no
00:32:56
no trippy dreams or any No, not no thoughts at all. Just like dead basically. Yeah, pretty much. like um
00:33:02
yeah, one of the guys that was just after me, he was 24 hours um out of there after surgery and I asleep for
00:33:12
like 5 days or just knocked out and just had no clue what was going on around me.
00:33:18
Yeah, I've got I've got a photo. Is Is that Yeah. Is that that time? Yeah, that
00:33:22
is that time. So you you've got no rec Did you know that photo was being taken
00:33:26
or No, no, nothing. Um that must have been um So who was there? your parents there or Yeah. Yeah. parents are there.
00:33:33
They'd come and um like every day check on me and just see. It's quite cool. There's a they
00:33:41
give you like a log almost like a journal and the nurses fill it out. So they'll be like day one I looked after
00:33:48
you from this period. This is what was happening. This is what we did. And then they documented the whole thing. Um
00:33:55
which is quite cool to look back on cuz obviously I'm asleep during this time so
00:33:59
I have no idea. and they're putting their notes in. Um but yeah, 5 days I was like that's a long time. I can't
00:34:05
imagine how stressful that was for your parents. Yeah. Yeah. Unreal. Um I don't
00:34:09
have kids um at the moment, but I could just imagine that would be intense for them during that, especially being out
00:34:17
for so long and just having to put pretty much all your faith in the doctors to s let them do their job
00:34:24
and let the body do what it does. So it's like an an induced coma. So they just they're keeping you deliberately
00:34:30
drugged just to just to wait to see if the heart settles or Yeah. So I think there were some complications and they
00:34:35
weren't ready to pull me out yet. Um unsure what those were, what the complications were um or why, but yeah,
00:34:44
they were just waiting for their time to wake me up pretty much. God, your parents must have spent
00:34:50
a fortune at muffin break. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Through the roof. Wow. And then um unbelievable. And so 5 days after a
00:35:00
coma. Any recollections of that time? Uh no. The sort of I sort of when I first sort of woke up, there's patches that I
00:35:11
remember of waking up and seeing like this nurse look after me and like seeing the room and the room's like warping too
00:35:19
cuz obviously drugged up or whatever. Yeah. Everything. Um, so I remember that like the roof moving and all this sort
00:35:26
of stuff. Like I remember random people coming in to obviously maybe check on their um person that they were seeing. I
00:35:35
remember that coming through. I don't really remember the room shape or anything. Just remember sort of seeing
00:35:39
over there someone's gone to see their mate. I just remember yeah like some machines. I don't even know if they were
00:35:46
actually there if I was hallucinating them or not but I was like this is crazy. Then I in and out of that sort of
00:35:51
a space, boom, drift back off and then wake up and then just hear noises. I remember like noises. I remember hearing
00:35:58
stuff and it's just mainly like mainly machines beeps and noises and yeah, it
00:36:03
was it was weird. It was weird. When did you start to come out of that haze? Um yeah, probably when did I come out of
00:36:14
that? Once they took the breathing tube out. Um, that's when I remember being
00:36:21
more coherent. I remember that thing was giving me ball legs. That was I was It was pissing me right off. That thing
00:36:28
just shoved down my throat like Is that one of the ventilator things? Yeah. Yeah. It's like this big breathing tube.
00:36:35
Um, and they pulled it out too early and then my lung collapsed. So then I remember being on a sleep mask. I
00:36:44
remember like like fully trying to breathe. Like it was just weird. Like I remember like kicking my whole body just
00:36:49
to try and get a breath in and then breathing out. Um I know that was a scary time for mom. I remember mom
00:36:55
watching cuz obviously I'm trying to I'm struggling to breathe here. This big
00:36:59
mass is pumping oxygen in and they had to put me back under and put the breathing tube back in. And at that
00:37:05
point I was not keen. I remember looking at the doctor, no just not a chance you're putting that thing back down my
00:37:10
throat. And he's like look we have to. And I was like, I was not keen at all.
00:37:18
But yeah, that went back down and then then the second time it came back up, then I was good to go. But yeah, that I
00:37:25
remember that that thing causing me pain. Yeah. And and what about the rec recovery? Long and slow. Yeah. How long
00:37:33
were you in hospital for? Um so I had the surgery October 4th. I then went to like the rehab spot in
00:37:44
Hearty Towers um which is just in Green Lane. It's like a transitions period. So
00:37:49
all transplants go there once they come out of hospital to then transition back into life. Um so you start cooking,
00:37:56
start cleaning, see what your body's like. You're right by the nurses. So if
00:37:59
anything does happen, you're straight back there. So I was there for four weeks. I think I was in
00:38:05
hospital after surgery for three. They had a week in ICU, a week in the next ward, and then a week in the transition
00:38:15
ward sort of thing, and then back to Hearty Towers. I remember three weeks, and I remember that recovery, like
00:38:21
taking my first steps or getting sit up for the first time, sit up out of the bed, and all I they told me to do was
00:38:27
move my feet like this. And I remember just I've never had to think about moving my feet. I was like, "Okay, left,
00:38:34
right, left, right." And just trying to do that. And that was crazy. And then
00:38:38
when they sat me up and we got up out of bed and went for my like pretty much my
00:38:43
first walk. I remember that. And I remember like normally you just walk like that. My legs were coming in like
00:38:49
this. So I was just like I was like what the heck is going on here? And like in my mind I'm like walk like this and then
00:38:56
the legs are just no just coming across and I just no muscle really. Everything was just gone. So I just had no
00:39:04
strength. was leaning on this thing trying to like shuffle my feet trying to tell my like feet walk like this. But
00:39:11
yeah, that was that was definitely weird just from being inactive for so long. Yeah. Yeah. So I went into hospital 86
00:39:18
kgs and then after surgery I was 64. So that's 22 kg. I've never been a big dude too overweight. So it was just
00:39:28
manial muscle mass and just bodies just gone. Just had nothing. and and your mental health around that time. Yeah,
00:39:36
obviously like like you you know you're weak and it's frustrating and it's hard
00:39:40
but but you do have a new heart so things are looking good. Yeah, things are looking good. Um when I did that
00:39:46
first walk I was like hallelujah like we can walk again. We're up and that I
00:39:52
remember that after that first walk that's when things sort of really started to take off in recovery. I think
00:39:57
the body just started to move again. muscles were starting to be active and then from there it just kept going and
00:40:03
was more walks, more walks. I was just demanding the nurses to take me on a walk like I was a dog almost like take
00:40:09
me on a walk, let's go cuz I you had to like plug in and all these machines and
00:40:14
everything before you could go. You couldn't just get up and go. Um but I just knew if I keep moving like the
00:40:19
body's just going to naturally start to kick into gear and start to heal. Yeah,
00:40:23
I saw a photo of you online. There's and you you've got like a like a a stroller
00:40:27
thing and there's a lot of paraphernalia. There's a there's a lot going on with it. So, the logistics of
00:40:32
um moving in those early days was quite intense. Yeah. Yeah. And there's about
00:40:35
three nurses that would have to come with me. One would have to watch the monitor, watch my heart rate, other one
00:40:39
would have to watch the oxygen and all this stuff. Um make sure all my cords are still stay attached to me.
00:40:45
Everything was crazy when I look back on it just to think like just going for a walk, you're pretty much taking like a
00:40:51
whole factory with you almost. It's crazy. And then when when are you allowed to go home?
00:40:57
Um, pretty much once I guess I don't know what the the criteria was for me to
00:41:04
get into the next wards, but it was just pretty much strength and get better. It
00:41:08
was all around your strength and fitness about can you actually do all the stuff
00:41:14
that you need to do at home or forward cuz if they release you early then you're just going to come straight back
00:41:19
if they don't know that you're physically fit and able to do everything. So I think that's what that
00:41:24
transition period's all about. Can you make your bed? Can you cook? Can you shower yourself? Can you do all those
00:41:31
once? And then the physio is going to physio every day with them. Starting with like just the air squat. I remember
00:41:36
having 1 kg dumbbells and just couldn't push them up. And before that, before
00:41:42
that time, I remember looking at 1 kg dumbbells in the gym going, "What's the
00:41:45
point of having these?" Like, "Why do we have these here? They're just bloody
00:41:48
baby weights." And then 8 months later, I'm sitting there like this trying to
00:41:52
push them. I remember looking back on it going, "Ah, that's why we have them."
00:41:56
Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to all the other people like myself who uh do their curls with 1 kilo dumbbells. No shame. Any
00:42:03
movement is better than no movement. Yeah. Actual actual. Wow. Wow. That's amazing.
00:42:09
Yeah. Yeah. I remember reading the um Yeah. Lance Armstrong, the cyclist. Yeah. Yeah. I remember reading his
00:42:14
books. He had testicular cancer and was given like a 2% chance of survival. And then um uh in in his book he talks about
00:42:20
like his first bike ride being back on recovery and he was going up a slight incline and he was off the saddle
00:42:25
pedaling hard then some old lady like went steaming past him on her bike. I guess it's the same sort of thing. E
00:42:31
like it's just almost like control out out delete. You're back to back to
00:42:34
ground zero. Yeah. Yeah. And um I've heard it heaps in the fitness industry like oh I've had a week off. I got to
00:42:40
start at square one. And like in my head I'm like yeah you have no idea what
00:42:45
square one is. You've been there. Yeah. Had to go legit to square one, learning how to walk, how
00:42:51
to lift the weight, how to do a air squat, could barely squat, all this sort of stuff. So, it was proper Yeah. square
00:42:57
one for myself. Um and and did it feel this is probably a weird question, but like having another person's heart in
00:43:06
your chest, did it feel any different? Yeah. I've been asked that um a bit around some people, the nurses are
00:43:12
telling me some people like adopt habits from that person. Hey. Yeah, spooky sort
00:43:16
of stuff. Um, and they said the patients don't realize it. It's their friend
00:43:21
group that realizes it. Um, and they start to go, "Oh, like he or she didn't
00:43:25
wasn't doing that before." Um, I haven't had anything like that personally. Um, I don't actually notice
00:43:32
really the feeling of someone else's heart cuz they take all the nerves around so you don't actually feel it
00:43:40
anyway cuz you can't reattach nerves. So, all the nerves are gone anyway. Um,
00:43:45
so when you have like when you go for a workout or a run or whatever and you can
00:43:48
feel your heart beating, I can't actually feel that um because all the nerves are gone. So I just know the
00:43:53
symptoms are more just like out of breath sort of stuff. But yeah, I haven't really felt that mentally. I
00:43:59
know that there's someone physically like there's nothing in that sort of
00:44:03
realm that's happened. And what are the chances of rejection? Is that something
00:44:07
that they if you know if you make it through the danger period like the first 30
00:44:11
days, 50 days or whatever then? Yeah. Two years. Two years. First two years. Um is you're out of the Yeah. Yes. I'm
00:44:18
out of that danger um zone through that period. Um I did have some rejection. Um they call it like a
00:44:26
1R, 2R, 3R. Um 1R is like you'll definitely know about it. 2 R, 3 R. Three R is real mild rejection. 2 R sort
00:44:34
of medium. I had a couple three Rs and two yeah two Rs as well. Still didn't
00:44:41
know the symptoms. Didn't feel anything. It was just when I was going for my
00:44:43
regular testing they were picking it up with reg regular biopsies. Um and now because of that I'm still on this drug
00:44:50
called prednazone. Normally you'll phase off it but I'm still on it just because
00:44:54
of the early stages of rejection that I had. Um but again it I didn't feel any
00:45:01
rejection or whatever. was just the what they were picking up in the tissue samples when they were taking them.
00:45:06
Yeah. What sort of pills are you on? And are you on them for life? Yeah, I'm on
00:45:09
the pills for life. So, I've got tacimus, microfenolate, prednazone, aspirin,
00:45:15
uh what else is there? Privastatin pretty much mainly rejection, anti-rejection,
00:45:21
um bit of blood pressure and antibiotic pretty much is pretty much what it all the big cocktail is. So, how many a day?
00:45:30
Um, so there's about 5 in the morning, 3 at night. Oh, okay. Oh, that's not as as
00:45:36
bad as what I thought. I imagine it was like a massive massive It was when I first came out of hospital. So, I was on
00:45:42
about 16 in the morning, about 8 at night. And I remember I remember my mates jokingly saying, "We're going to
00:45:49
buy you one of those like old man Monday to Sunday." Sunday, Monday, Tuesday special. So, I actually had one,
00:45:56
but I had too many drugs to put in them. They didn't even fit. So, so far I can't
00:46:00
even use this. Yeah. Oh god, that's funny. Um, and you must have bounced back pretty quickly because um yeah,
00:46:07
this is this is um where the where the the story sort of pivots and um well like a a it's a beautiful way
00:46:16
but it's a heartbreaking way as well. So 7 months after your heart transplant,
00:46:19
you're doing a half marathon. Yeah. Yeah. Like did the um did you have to get clearance from cardiologists and
00:46:26
things like that? Um I think I I should have but I didn't. Um cuz would they
00:46:32
because you you know on the one hand you think um you know working the heart and
00:46:36
using it is is a good thing to do but on the other hand I suppose yeah there there becomes a point where it's
00:46:40
diminishing returns in terms of strenuous exercise. Yeah I think so you went rogue. Yeah a little bit. Um I had
00:46:47
a tendency to do that with my doctors around health and fitness. Um there's no
00:46:52
way if if you [ __ ] this up there's no way they're giving you another Yeah.
00:46:55
Exactly. Um, so I was just like I couldn't go back to CrossFit. They said it's too
00:47:00
intense. Heart rate's going to shoot up. Um, so I was like, "What else is out
00:47:05
there? Like there's got to be something out there." One of my mates is from
00:47:07
Hawks Bay. So he thought up the idea and he's like, "Do you want to have a
00:47:12
crack?" And I was like, like it's pretty early, right? But during the sort of
00:47:18
small little training that I did, it was all just about moving as slow and the heart rate not really climbing at all.
00:47:26
Um, so I knew during my pre-runs I never really crept up to a high heart rate. So
00:47:32
I was like, "Okay, this will be fine." In my uneducated view, I was like, "I'll
00:47:36
be fine." Like just to keep it nice and steady and just slow. The goal was never
00:47:41
to PB obviously and just sprint away. Low and slow, just get it done. Yeah, just get it done. If I needed to walk,
00:47:48
I'll walk. It was just about finishing really. Um and the boys that we went down with, they had their own um goals
00:47:54
that they did um and achieved. So yeah, we all crushed it that day in our own way. Um yeah, I remember I think my pace
00:48:01
was like eight average 8 minute Ks. So I was real slow. Um and it's funny you
00:48:07
brought up that um Armstrong because I remember running and I remember this old man walking past me and I was like,
00:48:15
"You're kidding." And I was like, I'm slowly running and he's just power
00:48:20
walking right past me. This is about the 16k mark and I was like, "Wow, this is a
00:48:26
bit of humble pie." But still, yeah, you must have been immensely proud though
00:48:28
just getting it done. Yeah. Yeah. I was stoked. I didn't honest. I was never
00:48:32
really a strong runner before this. Um, so I was that was the longest I've ever
00:48:36
run. And to do it 7 months after transplant, I was Yeah. I was like, "Okay, it was like a we're back sort of
00:48:44
moment." I was like, "Okay, yeah, we're good to go now. We're back. What can we
00:48:48
achieve next?" And then I felt Yeah. I felt me at that point. I was I'm good.
00:48:54
That it's an alarmingly quick turnaround, eh? Yeah. From a heart transplant to doing taking part in a
00:48:58
half marathon 7 months later. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I look back on it now going, "What the heck?" Well, I pump the
00:49:05
brakes, mate. Slow down. Yeah. And I did tell my cardiologist and they were like,
00:49:10
"Okay, dial back." And I was like, "Oh, yep." Yeah. But the um you know the the
00:49:15
amazing um serendipitous thing about this is um Yes. So you end up getting some media coverage about doing the half
00:49:21
marathon. Yeah. So stuff wrote a piece or Yeah. Yeah. So I remember um when I was filling in the application form to
00:49:28
do it um or registrating um I was like I better put it down like better put down
00:49:33
that I've had a transplant in case something happens then the team are aware of it. So I put it down in the
00:49:40
form under the medical conditions and then that's when um the who are they the
00:49:47
owners that run the Hawks Bay reached out wanting to do an article and then New Zealand Herald also reached out
00:49:53
wanting to do an article and at that time it was I think it was stuff I've never really sort of told my story never
00:49:59
really thought much of it just thought like I'm on this journey I want to get
00:50:03
better I want to run um and achieve this goal and that was sort of the start where I was like okay Let's do it. Like
00:50:09
why not? Um why not get it out there? How are you were you nervous about that? Yeah, I was a little bit and I didn't
00:50:15
know because it was sort of the first time I've told like all my mates the story and stuff but you know that's just
00:50:20
easy just sitting in a lounge. Um and then telling the media I was like okay is this going to be something that they
00:50:27
want to know or like how was it? And it was just yeah it was different but it was good to get off my chest sort of
00:50:32
tell more people. Um, the more I told it, the more I was, I guess, more proud of what I've done. Um, and not
00:50:40
being too shy about being proud. Like, I suppose we're always sort of underelling
00:50:45
ourselves. And then the more I told that story, I was like, you know, I'm pretty
00:50:49
stoked that I could do that, but I was chuffed. Yeah. Yeah. You should be proud of it. It It is a male thing. Is is it
00:50:56
also like a like a multiculture thing that you're not allowed to like be like braggy or Yeah, I'd say
00:51:02
yeah, I would say like you're not allowed to, but yeah, definitely like we're just so Yeah. quiet and just not
00:51:10
braggy. I've got some um Pacifica mates and they're always like, "Humble
00:51:13
yourself. Humble yourself." Yeah. But some sometimes you got to celebrate these these successes like this is a
00:51:19
massive win. Yeah, it was a massive win and I was stoked. Um but yeah, it was good to get it off my chest and just
00:51:26
celebrate it and actually yeah, realize that the body can achieve that. Yeah. And had you not um been open to doing
00:51:33
this media, chances are you would have never come across um Nikki and Spencer. Yeah, correct. Josh's parents. So So um
00:51:42
yeah, Josh Josh Heath. Actually, I've got a photo of Josh here. What can you
00:51:46
Yeah. What can you tell us about Josh? A man a man you never met. Young man you never met. Yeah. young man that I uh
00:51:52
never met. Um I when I met um his mom and dad that they told me that he was starting to get into his health and
00:52:01
fitness and get into the gym and wanted to be bigger and his um mom and dad sort
00:52:05
of joked, well now he is a little bit bigger cuz I was a little bit bigger than Josh at the time. So you can't come
00:52:10
down. You're still lifting 1k dumbbells. Yeah, I know. He sort of lowkey got his
00:52:15
wish of getting bigger um in a weird funny way. Um but yeah um it's quite like that
00:52:23
moment that she reached out was all because of that that herald that article. Um the parents were just
00:52:30
reading it the dad read it um just read right through it and then I think the mom read it and sort of was like hang on
00:52:38
cuz they got told sort of similar what I got told a young man similar of age Josh
00:52:42
was donated to and that's all they had to go off. Um, and then they read the
00:52:46
article about the half marathon, seen the date. Josh passed away October 3rd. I got the transplant on October 4th.
00:52:53
Young male, similar age. Um, so she tracked me down on Facebook and then sent me a message. Um, she said she
00:53:02
wrote it multiple times, hands are shaking um, while she was writing it. And then, yeah, sent it to me. This is
00:53:09
about 3 3ish p.m. I think. I remember being at work just sitting there, get this message request, boom, open it um
00:53:18
from Nikki pretty much saying the first line from, "Hey, look, I don't know how
00:53:22
to say this, but I think you've got my son's heart." And then just boom, like
00:53:26
the emotion that I had just sitting there, I was like, "Whoa, crazy." Um
00:53:31
Yeah. How how do how do you react to that? Yeah, it took me a while. Um, I was stoked though that she did
00:53:39
reach out cuz this whole time I've always wanted to thank like obviously this family and like what I
00:53:46
went through was tough but in my eyes what they've gone through and still going through is way more tough than a
00:53:53
transplant. like to lose a son of only 19 years old like that is pain that will be hard to heal from whereas the
00:54:02
transplant pain and all that pain that I went from like I'm I guess healed and
00:54:07
like good to go. Um so yeah I was stoked that I could finally that she did reach
00:54:12
out and that I could connect with that family. Um, and it was just extra motivation
00:54:17
to, I guess, appreciate the gift that I've got and do everything for Josh and
00:54:23
learn about him, about what he liked in his life and what he was doing. He seemed like he had a good bunch of mates
00:54:30
um and everything. Yeah. Yeah. From from what you've learned about him in retrospect, like Yeah. Who was Josh? Uh,
00:54:36
who's Josh Heath? Yeah. He was a young fellow in in Roa. Um, was into his gyming. Um, was apprentice for his old
00:54:43
man. Um, so we just started his apprentichip. Um, it's funny is his mom asked me if I like drinking long whites
00:54:49
cuz that's what Josh um was into down the young. What are the chances? Yeah,
00:54:56
long whites and I do like a long white actually. So Josh Josh um did you like long whites beforehand or
00:55:04
Yeah, I did actually though. So it sort of wasn't just him but um that would be
00:55:08
weird. Suddenly you became like a Yeah, exactly. It could have been one of those
00:55:11
moments. Um, but yeah, and that's yeah, it's pretty much what I learned about Josh.
00:55:17
Cool. Like seemed like he had a good life. Um, so he was a shame that I got taken away from him so young. Um, I
00:55:25
guess that was a moment like unreal family, like cool ass family. Um, so yeah, just honestly just extra
00:55:32
motivation just to keep going. Yeah, from from what I can gather, he was a passenger in a car with a mate who was
00:55:37
um had been uh drinking and smoking some weed and um yeah, it was a a car accident and they um discussed earlier
00:55:46
about him being like a donor on his driver's license. Yeah. Um but even even
00:55:50
if you tick the donor box um if you're on life support, you the family can override it at the last minute. Yeah.
00:55:56
Correct. So New Zealand um still even if we do take it again as you said the family can just go
00:56:03
nah um and that still happens in New Zealand. I don't think all countries are
00:56:07
the same but yeah and like the list I remember the mom telling me the list that they give you is
00:56:14
like surprising of how much you can actually donate from your body. Like there was stuff like eyes and everything
00:56:21
and like Nikki like you can't take my son's eyes like you ain't taking my
00:56:25
boy's eyes. Um, but yeah, you can have this, this, and this, and this, which
00:56:30
is, I guess, a huge decision at that time. Yeah, 100%. I couldn't Yeah. think
00:56:35
about what you'd go through during that time of grief and then being told like,
00:56:40
hey, can this happen and what where your mindset would be like, okay, if I give this potential other people will be
00:56:47
saved and like having that, I guess, yeah, that that mindset be able to save others.
00:56:55
Yeah. Um, do you know much about his other organs and where they ended up? Um, I know his lungs went to this um, he
00:57:06
was in his I think he was in his mid30s, late 30s. Um, cuz he was at the hospital
00:57:12
when I was there. Um, so we both went through our surgeries at similar times obviously for obvious reasons. Um and
00:57:19
then I remember the part of the liver I think went to a young um young young like newborn sort of in
00:57:28
Melbourne I think. Um and yeah that's and I've met Troy um who had the lungs. He unfortunately
00:57:36
passed away about a year and a half ago and that was his third lung transplant. um
00:57:42
he had I think it's just fibrosis or whatever it was. But yeah, that's pretty
00:57:47
much what I know that he he still managed to save his life for a little bit and making a living and yeah,
00:57:53
obviously to donate to a young um baby in Melbourne where that's just going to
00:57:58
And then me as well. Yeah. So, yeah, probably save some lives. Yeah. What about when you first met Nikki and
00:58:04
Spencer? Cuz you've caught up with um Yeah. Josh's parents again. You've
00:58:07
caught up with them a couple of times, right? Yeah. Yeah. Correct. How was that? Like the first time you did you
00:58:11
drive to their house? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I drove to Yeah, I was I was nervous. Um they I knew they'd be
00:58:18
nervous, too. Um it's a big deal for everyone involved. It's I mean, it's
00:58:22
it's wonderful, but it's also, you know, fairly shitty circumstances. Yeah,
00:58:26
exactly. Um and I think both of us, we didn't really know what to do like cuz
00:58:32
there's no there's no agenda, right? So like it was sort of just going down
00:58:36
there and meeting um had a nice little lunch um with them and I sort of just tried
00:58:43
to I guess tell them about myself sort of try and lead the conversation a little bit but yeah we were both sort of
00:58:50
like what do we do? Um yeah it was quite I guess not eerie but yeah emotion was through the roof.
00:58:58
Um, for me, I was stoked when I remember driving back just like rap that I've met
00:59:04
them. Um, a bit of closure. I hope it was a bit of closure for them and myself just Okay. And just pretty much got a
00:59:12
new family now as well. Um, but yeah, they were that was a cool moment. Yeah, it was good. I was glad I went down
00:59:18
there. That's cool. And then, um, you took part in the Invictus Games. So, um,
00:59:23
for anyone that's not familiar with the Invictus Games, who's allowed to compete
00:59:26
in them? Yeah. So, the Invictus game is for past or present serving u military members that have um had an injury um or
00:59:34
illness happen to them during serving. Um and then they get a chance to compete in these games that uh Prince Harry or
00:59:42
Duke Harry I think he is now um that started up. So that's been going for 10
00:59:49
years now. Um and it's every two years they compete. Um so yeah, militaries from all over the world go over there
00:59:58
and compete in these sort of I guess Olympic sort of style of events. Um yeah, and the the illnesses and injuries
01:00:06
over there as like everything and anything pretty much. Some crazy stories that I ran into over there, but unreal
01:00:13
opportunity when it came up I was definitely keen for. Yeah, there were um yeah, 20 Kiwi athletes um that that took
01:00:21
part. Um yeah. Any sort of standout stories or anything anything that inspired you? Yeah, there was this um
01:00:28
other Kiwi athlete that was um in the SAS during his serving. Um and he's so
01:00:36
casual and he just told me his story. He's like, "Yeah, just got shot a couple
01:00:40
times, rolled down the hill, jumped in my truck and then drove back to camp."
01:00:45
And I was like, "Wait, what?" Like you you what? And he said, "Yeah, I was just
01:00:51
on a mission. Got shot well down the hill. Smoke my whole spine. My whole body's just pretty much full of metal
01:00:57
now." And yeah, I drove back. I was like crazy. Like, and for someone like that
01:01:02
that's been through that and is still out here trying to, I guess, better himself and partake and still be active,
01:01:11
those are sort of the stories that sort of stood out for me. um was these people had these major sort
01:01:17
of uh I guess life-changing events and still trying to be better. Like those are the people that I want to surround
01:01:23
myself with. Just people trying to push the limits whether you've got an abled
01:01:27
body or a not abled body either way as long as you're still pushing your body's
01:01:31
limits and still using your body for what it can be and it's happy days. Yeah. Yeah. There's that saying um which
01:01:37
everyone knows like comparison is the theft of joy. you actually if you compare down um you don't have to look
01:01:43
far to see someone that's uh you know a lot tougher than what you do. Right.
01:01:47
Yeah. Exactly. Um and he was telling me that like what I've been through is worse than him and I'm telling no you
01:01:54
win. You win. They're built differently. They just another day at the office for them.
01:02:00
Um do did you meet Prince Harry? Was he there? Yeah, I did. Um that was quite funny.
01:02:06
Um, one of the our New Zealand media lady came up and was like, "Um, I need
01:02:13
you to do something." And I was like, "Okay, what's that?" Cuz you're going to
01:02:17
go meet the the prince. I was like, "Crazy." Okay. Um, so it was a part like
01:02:23
he was just going around the stadium and I had to sit there pretending I was drawing on something and then he'd stop
01:02:29
me and we'd have a quick yarn. Um, and that was quite cool. I think the thing I
01:02:34
liked about him was when I was talking to him, I could just tell he was actively listening instead of just
01:02:39
listening because of the cameras were all there. Like he actively wanted to know about Josh and about my sort of
01:02:46
story. It was real quick. Um but yeah, I think it was genuine what I got. The feeling that I got from there was just
01:02:54
all eyes and just zoned in on my story. So that was quite cool to meet him and realize that he actually is just human
01:03:01
like the rest of us. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We all are. Everyone shits. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And you you ran um with a
01:03:09
t-shirt with um a picture of Josh on the front. Yeah. Yeah. Where did the idea come to do that? Uh so that came from
01:03:16
the Hawksway half marathon. Um one of my mates is in the graphic design sort of business.
01:03:23
Um, so I was like I wanted to uh yeah run with a shirt with Josh on it, carry him through the 21ks. So therefore he
01:03:32
ran it, I ran it. Um, his family ran it. Um, and that's where this t-shirt came
01:03:37
from. And then from there it was designed for me to just keep any sort of achievement that I did would always be
01:03:43
with that t-shirt. Um, so I wanted to take him overseas as well. That's so cool. That um Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:51
Yeah, I can't like for Nikki and Spencer, like Josh's parents, like I can't imagine what that means to them,
01:03:57
you know? Yeah, I was I was quite did off a few more t-shirt to take down to them as well, so they could have some.
01:04:04
Um, but yeah, that was a cool moment running with him. Yeah. Oh, that's neat. What would you What would you like
01:04:11
people to know about organ donation? I feel like it's something we we just don't even know about, eh? It's not even
01:04:15
talked about. Yeah, I guess it's not talked about. Um and especially in our mai culture that we're bought up with
01:04:23
what you are given with you give back to papuoki. Um, so you give back to the earth and I guess during that time like
01:04:32
a lot of staunch sort of tell moldy people that are in my life changed their license to donate cuz they realize that
01:04:40
yeah they acknowledge that sort of side but then the acknowledgement of like like new sort of principles and like
01:04:48
that what the bodies can like what can happen if you donate. We we didn't know
01:04:53
that way back in the day. And then now like you can save so many lives and how changing it is. So I guess I guess yeah
01:05:01
sort of think positive like in my eyes like you don't need it anymore. Like someone else will use it hopefully to
01:05:08
the best of their abilities to treasure that gift. Um so yeah, I'd always encourage people to be donors but
01:05:14
encourage is probably all I can do and then if they want to make that decision, they make that decision. M um were there
01:05:20
any like like um Faro or elders in particular I guess that were like against it thought you shouldn't be
01:05:25
getting the transplant or um no I was quite lucky in that that I never got into that um this uh yeah it could go
01:05:33
there I could see it going that way. Um I was just lucky that I didn't didn't
01:05:38
have to have those conversations or go down that way. Yeah. And what's your um
01:05:42
tattoo journey? Did you have these before or have they come? Uh, so everything before except for this one on
01:05:48
my um hand. Um, and the idea behind this one, why I wanted it to sort of start there is that I feel like I just got
01:05:57
like pushed over. Um, and then landed on my hands and then ever since there it sort of just absorbed new life and we've
01:06:07
coming back. We can just get back up. Um, and that's sort of the story that we
01:06:11
told through that time awful piece done by Yeah. my ink out. Um, Papakuro, he was real good with that. And are you
01:06:17
done or is the story? Yeah. So, the story will continue. So, that's pretty much like the diagn uh diagnosis sort of
01:06:24
piece. Um, then we're going to do like a small symbol here to acknowledge the
01:06:29
transplant and then the recovery piece will go down this arm. Um, and that's
01:06:35
pretty much how the story will get told. Even though you're not meant to get
01:06:38
tattoos post transplant, but you're not. Oh my god. You're not supposed to run a
01:06:43
half marathon 7 months afterwards. So, you might as well just continue breaking rules. Yeah. So, I slightly bend the
01:06:48
rules when I can. Why? Why are you not supposed to get in? Uh, it's all about
01:06:52
um uh like infection and stuff because you're on imunosuppressants, the chances of
01:06:58
infection are a lot of higher. So, for any reason if this goes bad, then your body might not be able to process it as
01:07:06
efficiently as um your body would. So they just give you their caution, but I let my tattooist know about it. So
01:07:13
everything was cleaned and everything. So yeah, in my eyes it was fine. But yeah, there's still a chance. Oh, that's
01:07:21
awesome. What are some of the most valuable uh life lessons you've learned through this experience?
01:07:26
Um yeah, I'd say pretty much one of them was just to say yes to everything. And
01:07:33
like the it's cliche, but yeah, life's just too short. I realized that firsthand, like I've thrown away that um
01:07:40
sentence before the heart, like life's too short, might as well have a crack.
01:07:43
But now I understand that life is too short and you like you should take opportunities that pop up.
01:07:50
Um and that's pretty much what I've been doing. That's pretty much the main
01:07:54
lesson. And then we were just having a conversation the other day actually, one of my mates around getting checked. Like
01:08:01
males don't get checked for anything. We just crack on with life and just wait. I
01:08:06
mean, I was sick for ages and I still wouldn't go and get checked. Um, so I think that's another message that I sort
01:08:13
of want to try and get out there. It doesn't matter if you're fit and healthy. Just get checked like for
01:08:18
anything. Just you never know. Yeah, those probably my the two sort of lessons. That's a good one. Yeah, early
01:08:25
detection can just save you a world of Oh, it's crazy. A world of pain, a world
01:08:30
of headaches, world of heart heartbreak. Like it's just Yeah. Get regular checkups. Just do it. get everything
01:08:36
tested. Yeah. Um Yeah. You're not being you're not being a you know, you're
01:08:40
actually just being an idiot. You're not being a hero by by not getting it done.
01:08:44
Yeah. We're too stubborn. Yeah. Um if you could go back and give advice to yourself before the transplant, what
01:08:49
would you say? What would I say? [Music] Um before the transplant. So, you meaning like one I've already been
01:09:00
diagnosed and I've been told that I'm going to get a transplant or I don't
01:09:05
know, man. It's your question. Interpret it any way you want. I suppose if it was
01:09:09
really early on, you could be like, go to the go to the [ __ ] doctor. It's not normal that you can't walk up the
01:09:13
stairs. That would definitely be like my advice. Like, you're not bulletproof.
01:09:18
Um, realize that. Um, and then I guess my second advice was probably just let people help you.
01:09:27
I'm a shocker for I still am now actually. Um, of not letting people help me. Like I'm trying to do everything on
01:09:34
my own. Um, and that was a little bit of a wakeup call realizing that you do need
01:09:40
help. Like I've always been stubborn enough to say, "No, no, I'll get I'll
01:09:43
get it done. I'll get it done." And then I couldn't even go to the toilet by
01:09:47
myself. Like I couldn't do that. So I was like, "Okay, just let people help."
01:09:51
Um, if they want to help, they will. If they don't, they won't they won't offer
01:09:55
it. So that's another mind sort of thing that I'd probably give myself advice is
01:10:00
just let people help. And how are you now with um like tough conversations and vulnerability like if you need help, are
01:10:05
you okay to ask for it or still? No. Still work to do there. Still work to do. Definitely still work to do. Uh but
01:10:11
I think I'm just aware of it. Like I'm actually aware of it now that I am that
01:10:16
stubborn. Um I know it racks up my flatmate a lot. Um but yeah, it's definitely more aware
01:10:23
of it and I know it's a work on and I'll get better at. What's has um this
01:10:27
experience taught you about resilience and gratitude? Uh resilience. I think what it's taught to me being in the
01:10:34
military like we get taught about resilience and going through tough times. Um, and knowing that the body and
01:10:41
the mind can do so much and then going through this pretty much living it realizing like if you're pretty much if
01:10:49
your mental resilience is poor like you're going to go down like it's easy
01:10:55
just to sit there and as I say think negatively but if we dwell on the positive and have that mental resilience
01:11:01
your journey is actually a lot better. I look back on my journey and I'm like my
01:11:04
journey wasn't actually that bad when for a traumatic experience and that was
01:11:09
pretty much because of the mental resilience to want to go want to get better get back on that road. So it's
01:11:14
only going to benefit yourself. Um it's easier to say than do but yeah it's a challenge, right? Yeah.
01:11:22
How how do you stay um positive and motivated on tough days? Uh for me it's that I'm alive pretty much. I think back
01:11:30
to when like if I snooze my alarm for training or whatever, I think like I sometimes kick myself and I realize,
01:11:37
hang on, like you were begging to train like a few years ago. Like you were begging to be able to walk like and
01:11:45
now you can walk and you can go to the gym. Go like get up and go. Um this is a time in your life where you are able to
01:11:54
train. So get up and do it because three years ago I couldn't and I was begging
01:11:59
to train. So I guess that's sort of the moments that I think about that just
01:12:04
gives me extra motivation to get up and go go do it. Yeah. And I suppose you you
01:12:08
only need to think about like this young kid here who would give anything for the
01:12:13
opportunity to Yeah. Exactly. Go for one more run or one more session. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I do catch myself
01:12:20
being lazy every now and then. Um that's sort of the human side coming out of me
01:12:24
and then I dig myself out of that and be like get up go like this man as you say
01:12:30
can't so we better go and do it and um what's next for you like in the next two
01:12:36
years 5 years 10 years what goals or dreams are you pursuing now? Yeah. So, um once we just finished the
01:12:45
Queenstown Marathon a couple a few weeks ago, um that was another goal. Once we finished that half, the boys were keen
01:12:52
to tick off the full um and that was an experience in itself and we talked with that group um during this full that we
01:13:00
need to do this every year um and celebrate that we can. It took for me to have a heart transplant to get the
01:13:07
brothers together to be able to push the body. Um, and now we do it every year. Um, so we're looking at stuff next year.
01:13:14
We're looking at maybe doing a triathlon like a group either Iron Moldi or Iron
01:13:17
Man. Um, and we're looking at you got to train for everything and on the day pull
01:13:22
out your ED swim. Oh, the discipline. Yeah, the discipline. Oh, wow. So, we might um Oh, like a lucky dip draw. Like
01:13:29
a lucky dip. So, we'll all turn up and you pull do a team one or something. You
01:13:33
pull out and then way we go just to sort of keep things interesting. Um but yeah,
01:13:40
definitely that's probably the next one. Um something like that. Um I probably
01:13:46
like the marathon broke me like that one was tough. Um how long did it take you?
01:13:51
5 hours and 40 minutes. So I was there slogging away, walking, running, hobbling. Um so that was another
01:13:58
probably mental resilience piece. I realized I was in a dark place, different dark place, but yeah, hurt
01:14:04
locker place. And that um had to rely on Josh a lot to get me through that one actually. Um so yeah, I sort of want to
01:14:12
continue to push that body and do stuff like that that brings me back to that space and keep pushing forward. Well,
01:14:19
you're inspirational, mate. It's been really cool sitting down with you today.
01:14:22
Yeah, it's been cool just to tell the story, I guess. Yeah, it's a lot to
01:14:25
reflect on. Yeah, it is. I get I get the feeling you're such a um such a growth
01:14:30
mindset person that you you know you you don't spend a lot of time sitting and
01:14:34
reflecting. You just constantly looking for what's next. Yeah, correct. Um that
01:14:39
has been good about this podcast is just having that time to sit and I guess you
01:14:44
see you reflect reflect back on those like some of the questions you asked me like um and taking me back like actually
01:14:51
having to think about those feelings which was quite cool. I don't, as you say, I don't do that often and I should.
01:14:59
Well, it's cool. Yeah, you're I mean, you're an impressive young New Zealander
01:15:02
and um I'm glad the outcome for you has been been positive and I can't wait to
01:15:05
see what you do next. Um it seems like one of the big work on is um you got a great group of mates. I mean, you do
01:15:11
some cool [ __ ] Just need to work on that conversation piece a little bit. Yeah, 100%. Definitely, mate. It's so
01:15:16
hard though. As long as you're aware of it, though, and it's a work in progress.
01:15:19
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Onwards and upwards. Hey, um and upwards. Yeah. This has been amazing, mate. Jack Church,
01:15:26
inspirational New Zealander. Thanks so much, mate, for coming on the podcast. Thank you very much for having me. It's
01:15:30
been awesome. Loved it.