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hey Runners only with dime Harley Runners only with dom Harvey and Dean Barker g'day mate hey Dom how are you
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I'm very well I I can't thank you enough for coming over I feel like you're one
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of these people most people in New Zealand are familiar with the name or the face maybe people see you out and
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about and they're like I know that face from somewhere because that's how long
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you've you've been around but I feel like no one knows a lot a lot about you
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you are by Design like a reasonably private guy so I was honored when you agreed to come on the podcast yeah no
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it's good nice to uh nice to be able to sit and have a chat with you yeah is
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that a fear thing to say though you're like you know quite a private guy um yeah we've uh we've always you know
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men and I've always been you know probably respected our privacy a lot you know um yeah obviously we're very
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fortunate we've had a lot of I guess public interest in different things that
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we've been doing you know with the sports and things over the years um you know and as you said I guess start
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to um you know maybe not be as active in the sporting front and things you know it's still been amazing the support that
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we've we've had you know over the years yeah yeah and um you're here this chat was organized
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by Bow cancer NZ which has become a charity that you've sort of become I don't know I suppose you've sort of
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attached your your face to it it's probably something you'd rather not but
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you know you end up in this position where you had bowel cancer so you're using your name uh and your reputation
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for for good which is fantastic yeah it was it was quite an interesting one um you know obviously I uh at the time when
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I sort of went through that all about cancer um diagnosis and treatment and things
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were up in the us at the time um you know we we very much kept it a very private thing you know it was only
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a lot of you know very close friends and family that sort of knew anything about
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it um it was a year ago really where I saw the promotion around the movie Buck campaign
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um with Jeannie Mae coffin sort of um fronting and really felt quite compelled to to try to to do a little bit in some
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way to help raise awareness around bowel cancer because it is a very curable disease if it's um early enough and uh
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and I think the the biggest motivation is you know like I was very very lucky because we had
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really good access to the medical profession up in in the US you know as a result of being involved with the
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America's Cup team um yeah so you were involved with um American magic at the time he was with
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American magic and so you know we've got really good access to uh to the different doctors and things and because
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we're able to get onto it early it gave me a much better chance to um you know
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to be able to uh deal with it fight it and um and hopefully you know go on and have a sort
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of a full full and long life but it's um you know unfortunately you know the Kiwi
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sort of attitude you know keeping male attitude of she'll be right mate um it isn't always uh isn't always the
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case you know and and I think um you know the one thing that I've learned over over at all and everything else has
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just been over you know been aware of your body listening to your body and if something's not right go and get cheap
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yeah have you been mostly good at that or do you think you've you know you're
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ashamed to say you're a little in a little bit [ __ ] with it I'm [ __ ] with it
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you know like I've always been that way you know you sort of um you know you
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just always think oh yeah for it healthy whatever it might be and that you'll be
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able to deal with it uh whatever it might be um in this particular case um you know it wasn't
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it wasn't something that um you know it was just going to come right you know I
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noticed a bit of blood in my stool which is you know obviously not one of those things that you're normally comfortable
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talking about but it's um uh and after you know it had been there for what three four weeks you know I
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finally actually did something about it three to four weeks okay so I was planning on um doing this podcast
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instead of chronological order going all the way back and then working our way so
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since since we're there already we may as well um stick with it yeah sorry sorry to sort of jump oh no no no no no
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no no no it's it's great and I think it's a really good message so it's
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probably good to get this done at the start before we get to the fun stuff of your life so um yes so you're training
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with America magic getting ready for the America's Cup campaign um and then you see you're not feeling
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unwell you've just got blood in your stool what was really stupid with the whole
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thing is I've probably had never felt fitter than I had at the time had been
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training you know really enjoying the training we'd been busy with the sailing
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we're in the process of moving from our summer training base which is a Newport
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Rhode Island and we would um so uh with Mandy and the kids we were relocating we were doing the drive down
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through the US to Pensacola and Florida uh redneck Riviera so that was um that was pretty because we had a four drive a
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four day drive down there but it was I sort of nice A little a few little things going on just um before we left
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Newport um still going on when we got to Pensacola you know still still there and
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it was like well I'll go and go and see the doctor and um and just you know try and figure out
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what was going on so it was um yeah again it was one of those things we just sort of thought no I'm fat healthy
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eating well sleeping well you know everything was kind of normal but um you're feeling fine feeling fine yeah
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there was no there was nothing else going on did you did you say anything to Mandy your wife like oh I've got some no
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no because it's a bit embarrassing you know like you sort of even even though
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it's sort of you know because you sort of think oh but you know you know that
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if you if you said to your wife oh this this blood in my in my shirt she's probably gonna make you go to the doctor
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immediately right she would have I'm sure yeah um but it's just one of those
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really you know it's hard to explain yeah it's sort of it's there it feels
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you know it's sort of not you know a great uh dinner table discussion um so um you know you um you just keep
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it to us yeah and you sort of go and I'm sure it'll sort itself out and um you
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know and so it didn't and then so I sort of started the process you can Google it
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on your phone or anything like you if you Google like your blood and stall on on your phone the results are never
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going to be good no and and I didn't um again probably because in a little bit
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of denial sort of thinking well it's probably just yeah it'll be nothing
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it'll go away and then we're back to normal but um you know the the where I became a Google
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doctor was sort of a little bit you know further down the track after you know I'd sort of been through the
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process of um seeing the gastronomical doctor the colonoscopy and everything after else after that
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this um there's parallels between um your story and Lance Armstrong the the cyclist like he yeah hopefully not quite
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too many parallels but yeah early on here so he um famously had artisticular cancer and if you read his book he talks
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about his like testicles like swelling to the size of grapefruits and he's just
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constantly used to being in pain from being on the saddle six to seven hours a day so just ignored it and kept on
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riding through um similarities there I wonder if it's like a high performance sort of thing
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where you guys are just used to um yeah for me again there was there was no negative sort of impacts of of you know
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what I was dealing with so it wasn't like um you know I felt unwell needed to go and
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get checked out or anything it was just purely like uh you know just almost like
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a um a side effects sort of thing it was a sort of in the background and uh but yeah just didn't didn't really think
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too much of it so so you get on the um the medical treadmill you're going to
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see a doctor you have that initial conversation um when when does it become apparent
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that things are bad um well the the high in some ways the frustrating thing was that you know the
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the doctors are incredibly upbeat the whole way through and I know you'll be
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fine this is just um you know so the gastronomical doctor said it's probably
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uh probably just hemorrhoids um and you yeah you go away so you're thinking oh
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great you know but he go out of precaution will get you in for a colonoscopy and that was going to be
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three months down the track um so you know clearly there was no urgency on his side and
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um uh so then I went back and saw the Doctor Who was sort of aligned with the American magic team he said no it's not
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not okay we want we want to push us through so with his contacts you know I was in getting a colonoscopy the
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following week and um so you're in the uh um what does what does that involve by
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the way so the the colonoscopy it's sort of you know like everyone thinks of it
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and probably in the worst worst way you know basically they're putting a tube
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you know uh up through into your colon just to sort of like look at the colon lining and you know around the bow just
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to see uh well typically you know if they they see the the form the start of um potential sort of tumors whatever they
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call them polyps yeah um and during the colonoscopy normally they would um they'd remove those while
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they're while they're there you know so it's very um you basically uh have a laxative for
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a day or so before the um the process just to clean you out yeah clear you out and then you
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basically um you know they put you under for probably 45 minutes maybe an hour you
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know like tops um and you're sort of done and dusted and and so you know you
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wake up in the recovery room and the um you know the the doctor will normally you know
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just tell you then and there what you know what the state of play was and and so um yeah so when I got my one um
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yeah you know sort of the going into it the guy said I know you'll be fine you
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know nothing to worry about I wake up and he said oh look unfortunately we found a tumor
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um he sort of like talks about where it is in the colon and and you know shows you a few little of the images that they
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they take when they uh they're doing it so you know that was kind of a quite a
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big shock but yeah what's that moment like the room starts spinning what were
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you well you're still sedated a bit you know so you're probably drowsing you're
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not thinking that clearly but where it really I think became quite emotional or where it really sort of um it's sunk in
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was um the doctor then said look I think it'd be really good because you know normally
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if you've got bowel cancer if it's going to move to other parts of the body it's
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normally the liver and lungs you know that's with um bowel cancer and so they they wanted to do a CT scan
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which um so they put a contrast in um and then they they basically just check your organs just to see whether
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there's any other areas in your and you're sitting there thinking wow you
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know so I've got a tumor um more than likely it is a uh it is a you know a cancerous tumor and uh and
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then straight away it's like yeah where else in the body is it um or you know
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has it has it actually uh moved anywhere else and so the relief of wind I got the
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call from the uh the doctor saying look you know the CT scans have been uh been checked and looks like you know all your
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organs are clear so you know that was like a huge a huge relief huge relief you know still you know obviously got
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this tumor but it's um but at least it hasn't sort of it's been ring fenced
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yeah yeah and so that was kind of a the first time you know you really you know did feel quite emotional about it
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and um so what sort of period of time is this happening over so you get told you
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got tumors it's probably cancerous we've got to check these other organs within a
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week okay all in a week you know being told by the gastronomical doctor that um that it was probably just hemorrhoids so
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you know like you've gone from there to there so now now they're sitting there
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with this chamber um I think it was about a week later again the the doctor was just phenomenal and
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so he found this um surgeon up in uh Birmingham Alabama which is probably not a place too many people have been to but
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um so we're up there for Thanksgiving weekend um so my daughter who was boarding uh up
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in Massachusetts had a school there she was down for the Thanksgiving break so you know we break the news to them that
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we're going on a family holiday to Birmingham Alabama um you know at that stage we we just didn't
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we didn't have it in us to really tell the kids that are you know that that I
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had a cancer so you you and Mandy made the decision to keep it from them yeah we said that I was having a um having a
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like a small surgery right but just because you know the problem is you know everyone thinks of cancer as a you know
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it's a death sentence and it and it doesn't need to be you know like um obviously there's some some worse than
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others in that respect but um but you know fortunately with bowel cancer it is it is curable if it's if it's dealt with
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early enough so we needed more information before we you know really wanted to to go you know into the detail
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with them um so we went up there uh you're basically in hospital for four days
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while they you know they remove the um the chuma and you know let the colon repair enough and then now we're back
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down to Pensacola um so the surgeon was great you know he he basically did it with like robotic
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robotic surgery which is um you know allows even faster sort of repair time um and uh and so yeah we
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um so after the operation he basically said look we're going to uh sort of taken the tumor out all went really well
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we've taken 24 lymph nodes around the site just to see whether there's any
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um anything there just more out of precaution than anything but yeah you won't you won't need anything
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further until you sort of thing else is God you know we've sort of done the hard
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work now and you know get through the recovery and be be fine but unfortunately you the weight for
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um the biopsy on the lymph nodes was about a week so you know you're just sitting there just hanging in limbo
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hanging yeah and it was really that was quite tough and um what were you doing that were you were you distant recovery
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you know like you're still because you know it's quite you know it's quite a
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decent sort of surgery you know they you know you're not really that mobile for a
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few days um yeah you're slowly building back up next and doing a bit of walking and
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things but um so yeah we're out walking the dog and uh Mandy and I and then um you'll get
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the phone call just say look uh unfortunately you know the six of the lymph nodes have um got uh cancer uh
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signs of cancer and so you're going to need to uh most likely to go and do do the chemo
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so you know now you're in yeah you're going to see the oncologist and um sort
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of all of that that kind of thing from there and so you know Thanksgiving is end of November
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um there was an opportunity to try and start the chemo by sort of mid to late December
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um and with the uh with the the type of chemo that I had they in the U.S particularly they were really Keen to do
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um to do via report so they they put like a um like a little tap yeah so it sort of just sits below the skin so they
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they put it in there it's sort of like a rubber membrane where they just sort of
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then I um like an IV into into that membrane and tape it in place and so with the
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I had um had to go and it was like 12 rounds of chemo um every two weeks so you got going on a
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Monday and you'd go in the infusion suite and they'd um uh you you sit there for like six or
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seven hours just you know they put in you know steroids and anti-nausea meds and things and then they'd start the
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chemo and then they'd give you a pump which is like a man bag you'd take with
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you and you'd have that with you for two days and there was just like a slow
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release of chemo go back and on the Wednesday they'd take it out then you had 10 days to sort of
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um recover before the next um you know the next round and yeah so that was uh yeah how did you
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find the chemo experience I've had um uh die Henwood on the podcast who's
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um yeah you know he's got stage four cancer at the moment and he talked about
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um just how misleading the perception with chemo can be because people see movies and they see someone that's bald
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and throwing up and he said the reality fan was quite different like uh he was doing seven days in some other shows
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like that with um a chemo bag hanging off them how was your experience um it was an interesting one it's I
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found it very sort of a cumulative effect um the first one or two were um were remarkably sort of uh okay
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um you know the I think every chemo every treatment you know is is different the
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cocktail and things and so you know some people you know like fly through it other people definitely uh battle and
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um my experience with it was um you know it was a challenge mentally I think mentally more than anything it was
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it was very challenging because you just constantly feeling um you know feeling shut you know you
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the chemo would sort of kick in um by you know so the the pump would be out by the Wednesday normally the
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Wednesday Thursday would just you know the worst days and um I was trying to carry on with the uh
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the training with the team so uh go and do the sailing and things I'd sort of
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there was always that goal to be back sailing with them by the Saturday or the Sunday
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um and to to have that sort of I guess so motivation was really good because it sort of a took your focus off
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you know what was going on you know because it'd be very easy just to sit there feeling sorry for yourself I think
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definitely been able to get out there and sort of uh really sort of just keep pushing on with different things was a
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was a really um motivating thing really motivating yeah because you know you're there
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you're doing the chemo you know you know you're doing it to try and kill anything
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that's left in your body so to be able to fight it and actually be motivated to
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to do that as opposed to sort of sitting there thinking about dying it's like you
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know it's quite a different um Prospect because you know you've really got you know chemo in different
00:17:33
ways it might be they're just purely to extend someone's life or or might you
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know case and you know everyone else that in that same position where they've
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got the ability to sort of keep fighting at the end you know you're um you're
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probably going with quite a different attitude to it were there moments where you were thinking that this is it this
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is a matter of life and death um not really because you know like I think because the doctors have been very
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upbeat about it all and had been you know you know very clear that it was uh this
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was a um you know preventative more than anything you know the the main cancer had been
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removed with the tumor yes it was in the lymph the chemo should be able to kill anything that was was left in the body
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and and so you I think the attitude for me was much more of look you know you've got the
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opportunity to fight it enough you know while you've got that chance you you
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really want to and yeah but yeah God it changes your uh your perspective very very quickly on on life
00:18:36
because you know before then you sort of think your you know you're bulletproof and you know
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um you're fat healthy you know like you touched on before the Google Doctor type
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thing you um and you start looking at um who's likely to get bowel cancer it's
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you know it's normally elderly overweight um smoking drinking you know like all
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the boxes that you just don't take um and so then you you start questioning why you know why
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why me you know why what have what have you done wrong in in life to to sort of to have that you know um
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and I really think a big part of it you know it's the only thing I can think of
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is it can only be stress you know like there's just it you just can't you know you can't
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rationalize it with any other thing you know so that was kind of where I got to my head yeah
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um she's with lots of Tears over that time you're real private so you may not even
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want to go there but I'm like I'm I'm just imagining myself if I was in your shoes and like
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going home from the doctor and you know telling my partner the bad news like I just crumble like a like a [ __ ] mess
00:19:49
yeah um there's death there was definitely times you know where it was very emotional
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um I think you know one one of the worst was or probably the type that was almost
00:20:01
the relief was when I got the result of that first CT scan um because you're just dealing with all of this
00:20:08
information and not really sure um where it probably was going to uh going to end up so that was probably the first
00:20:18
time um certainly well it was quite emotional finding out that you know you would that
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you hadn't sort of finished the journey again I was going to have to go through
00:20:26
the chemo so that was another time the the last time I went back in uh to get the the pump removed after I
00:20:36
finished the six months of chemo that was you know that was you get to ring ring
00:20:41
this Bell um in in the infusion you know suite and you know like I don't know it's just it
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was just sort of like you know thank God that's over you know like it was just
00:20:52
one of those things where you know you do it you you want to fight it you know but we're it's wearing you
00:20:59
down and just in the end you know like to to get through it it's just you know
00:21:02
it was a huge um yeah it was a huge relief so you know but it's just there's
00:21:06
different you know it's just different times where you you do feel quite emotionally uh drained you know with it
00:21:10
all yeah thanks for sharing that really appreciate it was was Mandy Furious when
00:21:15
when when she realized you'd had blood in your store for all this time and you
00:21:18
hadn't told it was she mad well I hadn't you know because I was still probably almost a
00:21:23
little bit ashamed or embarrassed you know not for whatever reason I um I hadn't even told her when I'd been
00:21:29
to the gastronomical doctor you know to go and see see him originally and and then you know because he he wasn't
00:21:34
concerned I hadn't actually said anything and it wasn't until the the doctor said look I'm going to push the
00:21:40
um the colonoscopy boards um she was she was just flying back up to um Newport because we were had to
00:21:48
relocate all our furniture and stuff out of our house and um so she was actually
00:21:53
back up there so she wasn't even around when um uh when I did the colonoscopy and so
00:22:00
coming out of there you know it was a huge I guess shock and it'll be a reality check for for both of us so um
00:22:08
yeah but yeah she was she wasn't happy because I've told her too much about her
00:22:12
but it was um I feel it was just what what you that's it this is what I expect
00:22:16
Dean but like all I know about you is what we see on TV on usually in boat races and you seem like a just a like a
00:22:22
strong stoic guy and to hear that you're like that at home as well um I feel like it's gonna but you're
00:22:27
still young and there's still so much Life to Live do you feel like it's gonna
00:22:30
Gonna Change you as a person moving forward like you will be more open and more vulnerable and
00:22:35
um yeah I think uh well there's a number of things that you know that have changed probably you know like you
00:22:41
definitely have a very difficult different outlook on life you you know that you need you know you you want to
00:22:47
enjoy life while you can you know because you just don't know what's around the corner and I think it's
00:22:50
probably that's been probably the biggest uh reality check is that you know we've got um we've got four kids
00:22:57
you know and they're all different stages of you know what they're doing
00:22:59
and you want to be around for them and um yeah there's just so many different
00:23:04
things where it just sort of makes you take a step back and you know make makes you probably rethink
00:23:11
um you know life in general and it's you know I know it's yeah it all sounds a
00:23:16
bit silly but at the same time you know because you you get a bit of a a wake-up call
00:23:22
um you definitely start approaching things very differently on what you do every day
00:23:27
yeah yeah I can I can imagine so um so you're sitting here now it's um belkinson New Zealand month June 2023
00:23:35
how are you feeling now you're all clear physically you're 100 yeah well I have um
00:23:41
I've got a I have a six monthly checkup so with a surgeon um so I go and see him you know after uh
00:23:49
so end of 21 I had to get a like it was a um hit a small chamber on my lung which
00:23:57
had to get removed and that was you know fortunately you know not that was it was
00:24:01
a good thing but fortunately it was the same cancer as from the bowel so that it
00:24:04
had actually had moved around the body so even though the chemo had probably tried to to get
00:24:11
it it hadn't so but um but you know in terms of the scans and things every you know since they've
00:24:17
all been clear um you know my my scans you know I do them yearly so yearly colonoscopy yearly
00:24:23
CT um they typically full Joe around sort of September October around that time of
00:24:29
year so it's always quite a a teen's time because you just even though you feel good and you feel like
00:24:35
you're doing everything as you should you never really know but the good thing is early diagnosis you
00:24:42
know still gives you another you know another opportunity to fight it but but yeah I feel I feel really um really
00:24:48
good uh you probably don't train quite as hard as I used to but um and and that's
00:24:56
probably more just not being involved in the the teams in the same time racing yeah yeah you know which was would you
00:25:02
know just really drove that discipline so having a motivation like can move your butt month is um is actually quite
00:25:08
a good thing you know just to you know encourage us you know uh encourages me to sort of um get more active again
00:25:15
because it is easy to sort of to not um so yeah um well this is probably like a good a
00:25:22
good time to you know compartmentalize this and move on to some other stuff but yeah what's the key messaging I know um
00:25:27
there's some shocking stats like three people die every day in New Zealand from
00:25:30
bowel cancer um but what do we need to be looking out for for early detection well you know
00:25:35
this the the main symptoms you know I think um you know change in bowel habits is a you know is quite a big one you
00:25:40
know obviously blood in the stool they'll have it sometimes like frequency or yeah yeah like um you know like if
00:25:46
you if you really notice a big change and you know just I guess what you know your normal sort of um bowel habits you
00:25:52
know like it's just you know it's normally it's just again it's just your
00:25:55
body trying to tell you something and um you know my experience was obviously the
00:26:00
blood um and so um you know you you hear people that ignore it like like I did um and you
00:26:07
know obviously that's not a not a great thing so again you know it's the you
00:26:11
know making sure that if if you if you do have you know that sort of thing going on then you you do go and get it
00:26:17
checked out um yeah there's there's other symptoms you know where um you know discomfort in the abdomen
00:26:24
you know there's just other other areas and things but I think that that's that's probably the
00:26:31
key message of anything is like if you if you don't feel right for whatever reason then you know
00:26:36
and if it's persisting you know you definitely want to go and get checked because it
00:26:40
yeah the body is you know it's probably your uh your best um you know best gauge of uh what's going
00:26:46
on oh 100 and well thanks for being so open and honest about that stuff like you yeah I mean there's a there's a
00:26:52
Cheesy saying that people say that if it helps one person then it's been worthwhile but I think what you were
00:26:56
doing by being involved with this campaign especially knowing how private you are
00:27:01
um I think it could save a lot of lives um well you know the motivation was as you say you know like to to try and you
00:27:08
know like um help raise awareness around Bell cancer because it's you know again I I you know the the one
00:27:15
thing for me which was really you know it's probably the key message that I got
00:27:18
out of it is as Bell cancer is curable um it is treatable if you get onto it early and
00:27:25
um so you know like it's not a it's not you know there's no no none of these diseases are a pleasant
00:27:33
bowel cancer certainly not a sexy Disease by any means um you know and but um yeah it's like not being afraid to
00:27:42
sort of put your hand up and ask for help because it's um you know I think being able to talk to your partner or
00:27:47
whatever like you know it wasn't something that I I did a good job of but I think just to be able to I guess
00:27:52
yeah talk about it and um and then you know hopefully that leads to a good outcome
00:27:57
yeah 100 well I'm glad you're I'm glad you're okay now yeah nothing it's really
00:28:01
cool um you're the same age as me you 1050 recently right yeah yeah yeah yeah so I
00:28:08
was thinking about you over over the weekend so um your dad is Ray Barker who started like Barker's men's clothing
00:28:13
when I'm trying to remember when that came about was it during your teenage years when does barcus begin
00:28:20
um so uh dad started barkers uh back in 1972. oh [ __ ] yeah so like the year before you were born yeah yeah yeah so
00:28:28
um so um he'd always had a um you know like a real sort of I don't know focus on on men's fashion
00:28:37
even back in those days and you know they they had a you know fantastic sort of um
00:28:43
you know introduction he and another guy Jeff parsonsson you know they sort of teamed up in the early days and they uh
00:28:49
basically built it up from nothing I think it started off as Raymond's uh or
00:28:53
collars and cuffs and Raymond's um and then yeah then became barkers male Boutique and then
00:29:00
and then but came back as so it's um yeah it was quite it was really interesting you know just to see it all
00:29:09
grow and you know uh over the years you know like I never really had a strong um affiliation with with fashion it
00:29:16
wasn't really a a big big sort of focus you know like I was obviously really you
00:29:23
know really proud of what he uh what he did with it all but you know I probably didn't have that same sort of uh DNA you
00:29:29
know like in terms of uh really following the fashion brand and um but yeah it's sort of grow and grow and
00:29:35
you know I think when it was probably in my my opinion it's absolute sort of best
00:29:40
was you know like back in the days where you know every uni student was wearing a
00:29:43
pair of darkest trackies oh I was going to bring that up so this is when again we're the same age so when you were
00:29:48
maybe 16 17 18 19 I I was going to ask if this was like a regional thing because I was in Palmerston North you
00:29:53
know Messi university everybody was wearing like gray back as track pants they were like the must-have must-have
00:30:01
item in every person's wardrobe oh yeah they're awesome you know like um you know completely impractical these
00:30:06
days but uh you know like um but yeah you know my wardrobe I had the short version of it you just you know it was
00:30:14
that was great but um um yeah but it was one of those things where it just it was at one point in
00:30:21
time it was just such a uh yeah a trendy thing you know to for all all the students around New Zealand so no it was
00:30:27
really cool oh they were amazing so where did the sailing start sailing seems like the most impractical sport to
00:30:32
do like it's not running you put shoes on you're out the door um soccer Cricket rugby you go to
00:30:38
practice at school yachting seems like a lot of admin is it a yachting family my dad did a little bit of sailing when
00:30:44
he was young he was sort of more Cricket rugby um at school and through the clubs and
00:30:49
things and he did a little bit of sailing um but it certainly wasn't his main main
00:30:54
sport when I was 10 you know uh was really given the choice you know parents wanted
00:31:00
me to do something so it was either Sunday school or uh or or something like church so yeah so it was um so it was
00:31:06
best to uh go go down to the local Yacht Club so yeah we went down there and you know
00:31:12
like he at first I didn't really love it um but you know very quickly it sort of
00:31:18
said to grow and what do you mean you didn't love it I had a couple of bad experiences you know you sort of because
00:31:23
it's very it's a weird sensation when you first get into it um you feel like
00:31:29
incredibly isolated you're in a little boat on your own yeah obviously there's
00:31:34
other there's other boats around and you know support you know coach boats and
00:31:37
things but but you're um yeah you're sort of out there and you know it's quite a it's quite a weird
00:31:43
sensation you know that you're sort of responsible for this little boat and trying to figure out what the hell's
00:31:47
going on with the wind and you know getting wet in the head with a boom and you know it's just um
00:31:52
um and for some people just you know like a natural fear of feral water like some people just don't feel comfortable
00:31:58
being away from the shore or you know being in deep water and so uh yeah um but I had a couple of bad experiences
00:32:05
it's got stuck you know I got stuck in the middle of a late poo Pocky at one
00:32:07
stage you know where it was just couldn't couldn't turn the boat around and get back to Shore and start
00:32:12
panicking now what could go wrong there but it's um uh but yeah over time you know and just
00:32:20
sort of a little bit of um perseverance and things you know just sort of got a um
00:32:24
got the confidence back and really just sort of um built from there on and started off just sort of been you know
00:32:30
fun going hanging out down at Murray's Bay with uh with all of the you know the
00:32:34
other kids and things build out these friendships um you know once you've sort of mastered
00:32:39
all this sort of the the learn to sell type training then you you were able to go
00:32:44
and start doing a bit of racing and even though you know to begin with it wasn't
00:32:49
sort of incredibly successful it was still great to participate and be part of it and um yeah sort of quickly grown
00:32:55
to something that I was getting more and more passionate about so not not much natural Talent just a lot of hard work
00:33:00
it was yeah I'd say a lot of hard work yeah it was um and I was quite Young versus the generation of the kids that I
00:33:09
came through with um so I was sort of always on the the younger end of it so always you know for
00:33:16
a long time just sort of always trying to catch up to the the level of these um the kids who are sort of probably one
00:33:22
two three years older than I was and uh but I think in the end that was a huge benefit because you were sort of always
00:33:29
trying to put yourself against these kids so you know that I you know when you're sort of going particularly
00:33:34
through that sort of 12 to 16 17 years of age sort of um period two or three years of uh of age is a huge amount of
00:33:42
maturity and and so um it was it was great to be able to you know sort of always be challenged to
00:33:49
to be at the same level as as these other competitors that I've signed in against and you know they end up being
00:33:54
great friends but also you know really strong competitors and so you know as a club Murray's based Sailing Club was it
00:34:01
was incredibly strong and uh it was generation after generation of really good Sailors that sort of came
00:34:07
through you know the you know Ray Davies was sort of uh there was a year year ahead of me another guy Hamish pepper
00:34:13
there's another guy Jeff senior you know either being part of Team New Zealand or
00:34:18
you know heavily involved in other sailing um around the place and you know we were
00:34:23
very fortunate to have you know guys like Russell uh coats come and do some coaching at the club and you know a lot
00:34:28
of other really strong um people as well so you know we were immersed with you know like when you
00:34:34
look back now with you know some fantastic Talent there but also you know some very strong uh coaching support
00:34:40
yeah so when when did you first meet Russell coats because he he sort of shoulder tapped you and and got you into
00:34:45
Team New Zealand when you're in the early 20s right yeah but did he first see you as like a teen or
00:34:51
um yeah so oh and the young you know so young guys probably when I was 12 13 he was he came to Murray's Bay a couple of
00:34:57
times coaching right so could he see something in you then or no no were you just like another probably just another
00:35:01
kid but but it was what was interesting though so Dad um so through barkers they
00:35:06
they sponsored Russell and his 84 um Olympic campaign when he when he won his gold medal in in LA and he came around
00:35:14
after he got back you know he had the middle you know came around home and it was it was pretty cool you know and you
00:35:19
sort of um yeah he was sort of like an idol at that stage he was young and you know
00:35:24
obviously incredibly motivated and obviously very talented um yeah and so then you know he was doing
00:35:31
some coaching at um down at Murray's Bay from time to time and uh yeah I still remember you know he was
00:35:38
just like just you know forcing us out there in strong wins and you know everything else and everyone out looking
00:35:43
around going geez you sure about this but you know you could just sort of see just that that attitude towards it was
00:35:48
really uh probably you know just that focus on being you know being successful yeah so so how did
00:35:54
that go about that he got you into when did when did you first like join Team New Zealand so myself and Hamish pepper
00:36:01
so we were both you know competing against each other and lasers and things so in 90
00:36:05
3 we both got asked to join and do a bit of uh sailing with the team uh here in New Zealand so they had two boats so
00:36:13
they were basically they were you know with Peter Blake I'd form this new uh outfit
00:36:21
um Team New Zealand so I was sort of it morphed on from the 92 campaign um and yeah so we did some sailing uh really
00:36:32
enjoyed you know all the racing and things we're doing on the boats um got asked to go and sail on the B
00:36:37
boat and be involved um in San Diego but I was at that stage I was still uh you know content with sticking with my own
00:36:45
sailing you know doing the different Olympics sort of type boats and things and uh yes I didn't end up going going
00:36:53
to San Diego but you know it was obviously fantastic to see you know Team New Zealand go up there and
00:36:58
and be successful win the win the cup for the first time bring it back to New Zealand and then um
00:37:04
got involved with the team again in 96 yeah when they uh when they came back um yeah so it's a 96 and then um
00:37:16
so 96 was that here in New Zealand yeah so the so when I got involved yeah in 96
00:37:21
was it was leading up to the 2000 campaign so yeah so the team was sort of Base was base back here sort of slowly
00:37:28
ramp the operation back up and then you know I think by 96 97 I think you know the team was fully operational uh back
00:37:36
here in New Zealand so so that's is that the time where uh um Russell cut some
00:37:41
bread Butterworth they uh they left New Zealand went to a lingy yeah so that was
00:37:46
so that was after the 2000 right okay so immediately after the cup you know um yeah well well you know we're all
00:37:54
probably still partying that they obviously at that stage had you know had formed an alliance with
00:37:59
um Ernesto uh better rally who you know he's obviously synonymous with with the
00:38:04
cut through alangi and you know through this um you know obviously winning the cup in
00:38:10
2003 defending it in 07 and then um yeah now now they're back in the cup again
00:38:16
what 20 years on that was um there was a disgraceful time I what are your Recollections of that time obviously it
00:38:24
was good for you because it meant you got bumped up to be Captain but as a friend of like Russell Coates and I'm
00:38:29
guessing bread butter with they um you look back now on the way they were they were treated it was absolutely
00:38:35
disgraceful right I was yeah no it was um yeah I think the hard thing was is that you know I think when Team New
00:38:43
Zealand finished the the Cup in 2000 it was like a you know it was very hard to see how another team was ever going to
00:38:50
be able to to topple the the group that was assembled there was so much experience there was so much skill
00:38:58
um you know it and you know personally for me it was like you know hard to imagine how anyone
00:39:04
would ever want to leave and so when it all started you know to unravel and all these billionaires
00:39:10
suddenly got them you know they're all down here they watched the cup they're
00:39:13
on their super yachts and probably all thought well this is you know something we should get into this yes this is
00:39:18
probably you know it's pretty cheap and easy so let's uh let's yeah let's get
00:39:22
amongst it so how much do we have to pay them on it's nothing yeah exactly and so
00:39:25
you know you know we obviously was formed there was one World there was um it's like three or four you know they
00:39:33
sort of billionaire back teams and um Oracle it was when they they came in with Larry Ellison
00:39:40
um and yeah so the quickest way for them to get up to speed was to to basically buy
00:39:45
the talent and the experience and um which is I guess normal in any other sport in the world it's just you know
00:39:50
for sailing and for America's Cup and I guess passionate kiwis it was hard to
00:39:54
probably rationalize so um yeah personally I was really disappointed just to see the the team
00:40:01
fall apart yes it was a great opportunity and you know we you know just sat there thinking well you know
00:40:06
this is going to be um it's going to be a big job but you know it was incredibly
00:40:10
exciting but you know we were a young and very inexperienced group that was left behind you know trying to basically
00:40:16
rebuild carry on so that I guess you know what the the team had achieved over the past sort of um five or so years it
00:40:23
was uh yeah it was it's quite daunting um so so at the time when you're in Team
00:40:29
New Zealand are you sort of thinking as well those bastards leaving for them the
00:40:33
big money I couldn't understand you know look because I was young and just you
00:40:37
know probably didn't really see you know the bigger picture you know at the time
00:40:40
I was you know I was obviously really disappointed because it you know working alongside Russell and Brad that was that
00:40:46
was a fantastic experience all the other guys that that were in that sort of group you know that um that bought all
00:40:52
of this you know amazing sort of uh a pool of talent you know together it was it was really like it was such an
00:40:58
incredible experience and so to see it dismantle and and you know disperse to all these different teams it was it was
00:41:05
really hard to kind of rationalize but you know coming back to what you said earlier no it was disgraceful you know
00:41:09
the way they were treated you know they maybe they didn't you know probably leave on the best of terms you know and
00:41:17
the way it was done but you know in the end it's sort of everyone does what they
00:41:21
need to do right and it's um you've got to look after your family and look after
00:41:23
yourself yeah and so you know it's it's easy to see it all now and you know I
00:41:28
think it's it's obviously fantastic that Russell was you know recognized for you
00:41:33
know the service that he did provide you know to New Zealand when you know by bringing the cup back and everything
00:41:37
else yeah the time softens a lot of opinions doesn't it um but to think that
00:41:41
this was like pre-social media as well but I I just remember the weight of the backlash at the time it was well you
00:41:47
know um um so so then you become you become captain so how do you so you're like just late
00:42:05
20s at the time yeah so and so 2000 uh I was 27 um going on 27 and yeah so the next
00:42:15
couple is 30 you know when um and no three so that was where we lost to a lingi 5-0 is um
00:42:24
you're just going back so we're talking about Russell coats and Brad Butterworth
00:42:27
it feels like um then with the boats the way they were maybe it was more about the Sailor than
00:42:32
the boat would they be I don't know anything about yachting but would that be a fair thing to say whereas now it
00:42:36
feels like if you've got the fastest boat you're probably gonna win I yeah there's no question that they
00:42:41
they're a very strong team yeah we we raced against um uh Russell and Brad and Ernesto you
00:42:47
know two or three times on the match racing circuit leading into uh the Auckland uh defense in 2003 and you know
00:42:55
I think until they're again as we you know we beat them and you know it was we
00:42:59
definitely felt like we're on a on a you know pretty um pretty good sort of uh
00:43:04
position relative to them in terms of the sailing yeah the America's Cup is a
00:43:07
is a a typical I think almost Bar None has always ended up being won by the fastest boat
00:43:14
um yeah while the boats were very close in performance you know they they did still
00:43:19
have a small speed Advantage um in 2007 2003 you know they they definitely had a
00:43:26
better boat you know they were faster they had sort of uh stumbled onto some you know like a bit of a design
00:43:35
um gain with the whole design which you know we were still very much in the uh the same family of boats that that had
00:43:42
one in 92 95 and you know and 2000 whereas 2003 they'd sort of taken quite a different approach and actually found
00:43:50
a a design which you know gave them you know a pretty um pretty decent Advantage
00:43:55
across you know a lot of the conditions how do you handle that so you're you're
00:43:59
30 years old um you're the captain of Team New Zealand you got the weight of weight and
00:44:04
expectation of the country on your shoulder you're taking on these two guys who've been basically painted as as say
00:44:10
I have villains or enemies and you lose 5-0 like how like how do you get through
00:44:16
that oh it's devastating yeah like it was you know you as you say you know you've got the
00:44:20
weight of the nation you know you don't feel it at the time because you know
00:44:23
you're just going out there doing your what you think is the best possible job
00:44:27
you can you know and you're a team of over 100 people you know so there's
00:44:30
everyone's sort of contributing in different ways yeah the thing which was was difficult
00:44:35
was that the boat sort of you know falling apart around us you know during the series you know broken mass and the
00:44:40
first race when the you know filled up with water and you know it's just like
00:44:44
a whole lot of things which just weren't yeah just weren't good enough but at the
00:44:48
same time you know we didn't we didn't probably sail at our base you know we
00:44:52
there was one race we should have won which we didn't you know there was just
00:44:54
there was just a whole lot of things that sort of um yeah that happened and it was just
00:45:00
if you're going to lose you want to lose you know I guess in a dignified way you
00:45:05
don't want to you want like a close race sort of thing yeah and um you know to to
00:45:09
lose like we did it just wasn't a fair reflection of I guess the quality of the
00:45:14
people within the team now unfortunately in the America's Cup only one team has ever perceived as being
00:45:21
good and the rest are sure you know because they don't win but the reality is some teams you know like
00:45:27
Kenny it should be really good teams but just just don't quite get it right you
00:45:31
know there might be one or two ingredients that just don't sort of um play through and and so
00:45:36
you know are you a failure well no you know there's a lot of good that comes
00:45:40
out of some of these campaigns but only one team can get it right you look at Formula One or some of these other you
00:45:46
know things where you know Mercedes for dominant for however many years and now you know Red
00:45:51
Bull and no one can touch them and that's just purely because they've just
00:45:54
done a few things better than others you know it's not like the teams are suddenly yeah you know no good it's just
00:45:59
that one team's just sort of managed to to focus their energies in the right
00:46:02
area yeah I mean I'm sure you can look back now as a as a 50 year old man that
00:46:06
has survived [ __ ] cancer and take this for what it is which is just like a you know like a blip in the rear view
00:46:12
mirror but at the time it must have been all concerning like how like how do you
00:46:15
get how do you get through that like yeah where does that sort of resilience come from to get through something as
00:46:19
disappointing as that um it was hard like I think the one thing that you never prepare yourself for is
00:46:26
the um the the focus and attention and how brutal um I guess a lot of the the backlash the media the public
00:46:36
opinion um on what you do is you know and because um yeah you don't go out of your way
00:46:42
sort of to you know to I guess drag everyone down the hole with it but it yeah you end up
00:46:50
I think in a position where you try not to to listen to all the negativity but you know everyone's got
00:46:56
an opinion and and Team New Zealand is always being you know the only way it's been
00:47:01
able to survive is through Government funding you know in some aspect and with that comes the I guess that that
00:47:08
feeling of public ownership you know the New Zealand you know um feel like so even even though I
00:47:14
wasn't just a handout it was still I guess perceived as a handout and it's um
00:47:19
yo that's what it's supposed to take taxpayers uh feel like they uh have a
00:47:24
sense of ownership in a way I guess yeah yeah and they want accountability which
00:47:27
is absolutely fair enough you know like it's um any any sporting team that doesn't succeed you know you you do need
00:47:33
to have accountability to understand how you can do things better and so um but from a personal point of view
00:47:40
like the the um I suppose the focus the media attention the negativity and things
00:47:46
around it all you know should it really does make you question why why the hell do you you die
00:47:51
um because you know the motivation was always very strong you know trying to to win the cup
00:47:57
for you know for New Zealand and to bring the America's Cup back to New Zealand you know once once it left but
00:48:03
um you would you would have wanted it more than anybody oh I was just you know like yeah
00:48:08
San Francisco will be the biggest you know that'll be the hardest thing to ever digest you know like how that kind
00:48:13
of went San Francisco is that um 2013 yeah okay yeah and you know like that will be you know the one thing that I'll
00:48:19
you know I'll look back on and with regret that you know the whole way through you know but the rest of my life
00:48:25
you know it's just because we were so close and you literally could touch you
00:48:28
know you could touch them and it didn't end up um Falling Away we did and again
00:48:32
that team was phenomenal but you know we just ultimately you know they uh they ended up with a better boat okay well
00:48:39
let's go straight there it's the 2013 this is 10 years ago now and I can still
00:48:43
10 years on I can still say you know you you almost like once when you sort of like bring it up you sort of bristle a
00:48:51
little bit so this was um yeah San Francisco you guys against Oracle and one of the the biggest comebacks in
00:48:58
sporting history so Team New Zealand was up what was the score we're eight uh eight
00:49:04
one up eight one and you needed to you needed one more race to win yeah but then what did they do they brought in
00:49:09
some parts from overseas or they bought in souvenirsley no no so you know people
00:49:15
people sort of um you know it sounds like a bit of a cop-out but so when when we started
00:49:21
started the uh the Regatta they they were still at sixes and seven so being pulled up for uh for cheating they'd um
00:49:28
they'd been tampering with you know their smaller boats had been through some like a court court sort of one I
00:49:34
caught an arbitration hearing which um you know found them at fault you know they got penalized couple of their
00:49:39
Sailors couldn't be on the boat you know so they they were really in a bit of
00:49:43
disarray so we're tuned up in San Fran yeah we've gone through the Louis
00:49:47
Vuitton series and and the and we're you know we're basically uh just getting
00:49:51
better and better at sailing our boat so we're selling that at a really high
00:49:53
level um they were they were still really struggling to get their thing around the
00:49:58
course they weren't foil jiving and falling the boat consistently on the downwind you know they were um
00:50:05
struggling to get that sort of consistency that we we you know were um you know at a much higher level so when
00:50:12
we started the cup you know we were you know we're a lot faster than them on the
00:50:15
up ones you know we'd typically we'd sort of gain 45 seconds every upwind and and you know
00:50:21
downwind you know we'd normally be a bit stronger there as well the Regatta was a really really long
00:50:26
series and um you know by the time um yeah by the time we sort of got all the way through there was weather delays
00:50:35
There Was You Know days off um other bits and pieces you know the races got called off because we went
00:50:42
above the wind limit we had one race that you know we were had a massive lead in the um and we ran out of the time
00:50:49
limit um it was just like went on and on and on I think you know the racing probably
00:50:54
was the better part of three weeks you know by the time we from the start to the end
00:50:59
um so every every day they they were going out there and they were just slowly getting better and better and better and
00:51:06
you know the the deficit that they were suffering on the up ones that we they were definitely whittling away at that
00:51:11
so we were still ticking away with race ones you know they'd get the old one
00:51:15
here and there but then it was like um you know it was becoming apparent that you know we needed to get you know get
00:51:20
it finished because they were you know they were getting you know really really you know difficult to
00:51:25
actually hold off or beat and so you know by the end um yeah they they turned the 45 second
00:51:33
deficit into a probably a 45 second Advantage where they were able to get their boat falling on the upwinds which
00:51:38
you know our systems were limited we couldn't we couldn't manage stable flight
00:51:43
um on the Uplands and and that was just the game changer you know because by the
00:51:47
end we're both very similar on the down ones you know the the last two races you
00:51:51
know we were um we we LED them around the the bottom and normally if you had that Advantage it would be race over but
00:51:58
they were just you know literally sell straight past us on the other ones so it was incredibly um frustrating but you
00:52:04
know the the the worst one was you know when we were leading in the the race that um that the we ran out of time
00:52:14
um I think we're leading by over a kilometer on that race but it you know it was just like
00:52:19
just all the bad luck in the world oh it was just like you know I think we're
00:52:23
like two minutes from the Finish Line you know it was just so you know you could
00:52:27
you know where's where's the break you know and it just um yeah and so just was just one of those
00:52:35
things where just keep going and going and going and it was just yeah so eight one and then just just day by day that
00:52:41
they're just talking up the wins the sort of that mechanical issue on one of the One races where you know we went
00:52:49
into the tech when we're leading and you know nearly capsized you know obviously
00:52:53
saving that you know saved a huge amount of um issue with damage and things but but you
00:52:59
know we won that race we would it would have won as well you know and it's always easier after the fact you know
00:53:04
the would have been cut off and everything else but yeah it'll always be really hard to kind
00:53:09
of sit there and look at that one and say that was uh yeah yeah do you think do you think
00:53:14
you're over it now or not I I don't I don't feel like you are but I can't put
00:53:17
words in your mouth but I've had Shane Cameron on the podcast and he told me
00:53:20
the um that devastating loss here to David tour he reckons it took him like seven years to get over it seven years
00:53:25
before you know he'd get through a day and not think about it it's interesting like I
00:53:33
I definitely don't think about it every day but um but I do I do still reflect
00:53:38
on just that thing because you know on one hand um you look at again you look at all the
00:53:45
Fantastic things that the team had done over the thing where the first team to you know look at the the rule a bit
00:53:51
differently and figure out that they get these boats foiling and you know you look at where
00:53:55
where we are today every every boat yeah around the world now seems to want to go
00:53:59
foiling in the America's Cup where it is and um you know it changed the course of of
00:54:05
sailing it was sort of pioneering a different different sort of pathway and yeah there are a lot of things we could
00:54:12
have done better you know we could have done you know 100 different things better but it's
00:54:17
you know you just sort of just scratching the surface the whole time and it felt like we were
00:54:22
far enough it hit all the way through the the process that would you know be able to sort of maintain that but
00:54:27
you know they they did an amazing job of actually sort of um you know catching back up and and you know giving
00:54:34
themselves the opportunity to actually uh um you know overtake and and they and they did it you know only by the you
00:54:41
know the very Barista margins but and is that when we um as new zealanders got to
00:54:46
meet Jimmy spell he was the captain of the other boat right yeah so that was that started this sort of um media I
00:54:51
suppose rivalry between you two yeah also looking to be number one you know um so Jim and I we raced
00:54:58
against each other a lot over the years uh on the match racing circuit so he was
00:55:02
the skipper of um or the Helmsman of uh Luna Rossa we raced them in the final of the Louis Vuitton Cup in Valencia in
00:55:09
2007 so we beat them and we better we beat them 5-0 in there to to race against the lingi for the the
00:55:17
cup so that was sort of the first time we'd sort of rate you know that I'd you
00:55:21
know it was really Head to Head you know in sort of a decent event with Jimmy and
00:55:25
then obviously he was the uh the skipper of Oracle when uh San Francisco and then
00:55:32
you know again for Oracle and Bermuda and the following one but yeah we certainly didn't um didn't hang
00:55:39
out or anything is he the right guy though we're actually great great mates yeah so it's
00:55:45
quite a small community isn't it the Sailing Community yeah on the big scheme
00:55:48
of things it is um the Oracle Team New Zealand days you know there was definitely a lot of um a
00:55:55
lot of hate you know you know it was definitely very very competitive um but um but you know you do learn over
00:56:02
time that you know you are you know your Fierce competitors on the water but you know you do need to be
00:56:08
able to compartmentalize or yeah exactly you know there's sort of a bit bigger than just you know
00:56:14
just the the sports field so um and you know I think always have healthy respect for for each
00:56:22
other but it's just um yeah there was you know he got you on that occasion well actually not not yeah
00:56:29
he didn't get you on that occasion you were just one man on the on the [ __ ] oh
00:56:32
yeah but you know like yeah I suppose you wear the weight of the world on your shoulders as the captain but yeah I mean
00:56:38
it's a far bigger picture than that isn't it yeah but how is it how was your
00:56:42
mental health through that time like I I I just can't imagine how difficult it is
00:56:45
to you know to get through something like that did you have like a was there like a team sports psychologist or
00:56:51
anything like that it was um you know you obviously work together as a squad as a team yeah you're sort of you talk
00:56:57
through you know where where things are at you know like um everyone deals with things in
00:57:02
different ways you know I don't think two two people can be this you know are
00:57:05
either going to deal with things to say um again you know the what while you're in
00:57:11
the in the process or going through the the races you don't um you don't really sense it it's only sort
00:57:19
of when it's it's all said and done that you you know you really I guess feel that
00:57:25
sort of the hurt of um you know the the disappointment you know the emotion that goes with it because you literally
00:57:33
put everything into into it and for me that was really the one where it hurt the most because you you literally have
00:57:39
put everything you have into into their campaign over many years and and then one day it's just you know it's
00:57:46
suddenly there's no more races and it and it's over and you'd yeah you're packing up and you're going
00:57:52
home and it's it's bloody hard because you've you don't ever for one minute think about
00:57:58
what's going to happen tomorrow you know you're always thinking about you know the Regatta and and
00:58:04
going out there to win races and and ultimately won the cup so when it when it finishes and you
00:58:11
haven't got what you're looking for or you the result that you expect to to get
00:58:15
it just it's just this massive black hole you know where you just sort of thing
00:58:19
what next and so uh yeah so to to deal with that was um and that that for sure has been the hardest one ever to to kind
00:58:28
of to deal with you know just because we'd been so close we we felt like we'd
00:58:33
had the opportunity to to win that one um I was one hand on the trophy as people were saying yeah and so so to to
00:58:41
not um was just like yeah incredibly um incredibly hard to to deal with and was the uh was was
00:58:50
there like a Fallout or a personality clash with you and Grand Dalton at that time or was that just like a media sort
00:58:55
of no you know we'd been fine all the way through it um obviously you know probably where
00:59:03
where um escalator was when you know the you know obviously the media sort of um
00:59:09
started climbing on board sort of you know picking apart all the different decisions and things that have been made
00:59:14
during that um that process and you know obviously that created a bit of um a bit
00:59:18
of friction yeah um yeah oh man you've been through the ring array like it's it's not a career for
00:59:25
the faint should I you know it would have been a lot nicer to be sitting here you know
00:59:31
talking about you know how I won that one and then I won that one and yeah yeah but when you look back now like and
00:59:37
you reflect on your career so far um it's not done yet are you happy with it
00:59:44
um there's not a thing that I would change yeah obviously other than if you could the results but um but but you
00:59:50
know I've been very very fortunate to work with some amazing people and you know being part of some really special
00:59:55
teams and you work with so many talented individuals you know like in design sure
01:00:02
team you know uh trainers you know all these different people that um open your eyes to different ways of
01:00:09
doing things and how to be a better person and just I've always been fascinated with the um the engineering
01:00:15
and design and the technology of um of what we do and yeah I think if it was just going out and doing the
01:00:24
same thing over and over and over you'd very quickly become bored but because
01:00:28
you're always learning you know every single day you'd wake up you'd be
01:00:31
thinking you know what are we going to learn today is it is the boat going to be faster is there
01:00:36
some you know better way of doing something are we going to learn you know a different technique of how to race the
01:00:41
boat better or what you're always challenging yourself to be be better and and I think that was probably one of the
01:00:48
the best um the best things about it like to to go to work and know that you're you're probably going to come
01:00:55
home slightly better off than you will when you when you arrived it's it was
01:00:59
pretty cool yeah so they're um they're two very very different but two very big
01:01:05
events in your life so there's the um like the bowel cancer diagnosis and the
01:01:09
2013 America's Cup and that whole campaign and then the ultimate disappointment at the end how like how
01:01:14
do those two um compare in terms of like big things on the scheme of life is is there any
01:01:20
sort of um I don't know if ever really thought about it like that it's um they're too
01:01:29
suppose one one big difference is like yeah they are both both big things one's
01:01:34
a matter of life and death the other one's not it's just sport but one of one
01:01:37
you can do in in private with just your family the other one you've got the you
01:01:41
know four million people with an opinion even though they don't injection about
01:01:45
it I think that the biggest difference I'm just thinking you know thinking about is
01:01:48
sitting here now but probably the biggest one for me was that you know one is as you say it's a personal
01:01:55
um you know it's it's sort of you against you know something you can't even see or touch
01:02:01
you know you're just dealing with something that has happened to your your body and you can't really um
01:02:07
maybe you can't rationalize it or figure out why but it's there and you've got to
01:02:11
deal with it you know the other is something that you've you've planned for
01:02:14
and you've known and you've got your sort of your timeline and everything
01:02:18
else and so you you you've forgot the the benefit of time to sort of make a make a plan and
01:02:25
and um figure out how you're going to sort of put all the pieces together working with
01:02:30
a group of people so your one's a very personal thing one's a yeah a much
01:02:35
bigger bigger thing where you're sort of operating on on a different kind of
01:02:38
scale I suppose but um what's harder well yeah without doubt it's uh you know
01:02:46
the personal you know battle with um with your health because you know it's the one thing that
01:02:51
um you know you you know that you have to win it's uh you know it's not not one
01:02:56
that you can sort of accept the other the other alternative yeah oh thanks for that
01:03:01
explanation yeah sorry for putting you on the spot no it's quite an interesting way to look
01:03:07
it up well I mean you've just been through like that 2013 America's Cup campaign
01:03:12
um you know you it's it's a team sport but it's um you've been through something
01:03:16
that no one else will ever ever get to go through and I just can't imagine what
01:03:20
it's like going through that and the fact that you didn't made it through the
01:03:23
other end and you're a stronger person for it you know it speaks loads about
01:03:26
your character I think yeah it's yeah it's always it's just it's amazing how you can keep
01:03:33
challenging yourself in different ways and you know and hopefully you you're
01:03:36
better when you come out the other end of it but it's yeah there's definitely
01:03:39
you know you you 've um you definitely feel scars in different ways you know whether it's
01:03:45
emotional or possible so yeah where does that where does that sort of um resilience and Inner Strength
01:03:52
come from is it something that you've had to think about or it's just um just
01:03:55
in you and you're just a tough [ __ ] um I wouldn't categorize myself as that
01:04:00
I just I think it's um you you know you probably develop thick skin over time
01:04:06
because you know you certainly with uh been involved in a uh The Team New Zealand campaigns
01:04:13
where you are very much in the public eye a lot of the time it's um and and that support is you know is fantastic
01:04:19
you know when it's there but obviously the aftermath when it's not it hasn't
01:04:23
gone well you know you you do have to be um recovery resilient you know because it's
01:04:28
just you know you you do get yeah you just get beaten down and down and down and it is really really tough you know
01:04:35
because a lot of it's very personal and um you know some of it's very uneducated
01:04:40
but it's an opinion that people have oh most of it is uneducated when the America's Cup's on like suddenly
01:04:47
everyone's using yachting terminology that we've heard on the TV but we know
01:04:51
nothing about what's going on yeah but but again you know when when there's
01:04:55
been public money involved you know and that feels like it's sort of that sense
01:04:59
of you know accountability and people you know they do care which is which is great you know and I think New Zealand
01:05:04
you know whether it's the All Blacks or the the cricket team or the netballers
01:05:08
or you know whatever it might be at the time the Olympics you know everyone's
01:05:11
got an opinion you know and it New Zealand you know I've been fortunate to travel a
01:05:16
lot to go to you know to you know lots of different places with the sailing and and it's been great opportunity but
01:05:22
people can't often understand how New Zealand can be so focused on on you know
01:05:29
on Sports and sports teams yeah yeah yeah you know it's it is quite quite remarkable but
01:05:34
yeah it is cool to see at the same time you know that um the way that the country does embrace and get them behind
01:05:40
you know the different different things that are on you know at any particular time yeah actually we haven't even
01:05:46
mentioned you going to the Olympics so you went to the 2004 Olympics in Athens um
01:05:50
who was uh Sarah Alma she won a gold the Evis Wendell's twins I think Ben Phillie
01:05:56
did okay what are your memories of the Olympics was it a fun time it was a good experience yeah it was good like I
01:06:02
tried to qualify in 96 and you know got really close you know um and it was something that I really
01:06:08
wanted to go and participate in and so after the 2003 cup I jumped back in the fin uh had six months to basically
01:06:17
prepare for the games and it was just you know sort of thinking well you know if I can be involved in the
01:06:23
America's Cup you know surely I can do the Olympics and you know it was a bit of a it was a
01:06:27
mistake because I just hadn't had enough time you know that most most people were
01:06:30
in the sailing and probably most other sports you know they've dedicated the
01:06:34
past four or six or eight years whatever two you know the ultimate goal and um yeah I just didn't didn't have enough
01:06:41
time I had some good results leading up to it got to the games and just wasn't
01:06:44
just wasn't good enough you know to um to be able to get you know to a middle position but yeah I think you
01:06:50
finished um like 12th or something but but yeah that aside was that a fun experience going to the Olympic Games I
01:06:56
mean you know it's yeah it's one of the it's an experience where you need I
01:07:00
really think you'd benefit by going going twice you know where you you understand the process you you learn the
01:07:07
the lessons you know you sort of see what's going on because it is it is quite a a daunting thing you know you
01:07:12
get there and you know the security and the athletes and you know the the team Village and all
01:07:18
all of those things you look at it you just go wow you know this this is pretty Implement amazing you know and um
01:07:25
yeah it's um but you know that was when they the um Hamish and Bevin oh the toiathlon one
01:07:33
and two yeah that was remarkable going along and watching that you know seeing those guys doing yeah it just yeah good
01:07:40
oh it was just it was just so cool you know like um you know to see New Zealand doing so well on the world stage you
01:07:46
know it's um you know we punched so far above our way you know internationally
01:07:51
it's uh it's amazing and yeah you look at the the two um two girls is Amy and
01:07:57
Lisa you know this in the uh remarkable you know like you know it's just how can
01:08:02
two people you know dominate a you know a world you know the World sport you know yeah you must be a case of them
01:08:09
sort of like pushing each other or keeping each other honest yeah which is which is you know again as it seems like
01:08:14
a very New Zealand thing and um how have um people in the public been to you over the years has it only ever been
01:08:21
nice has there ever been anyone that's that's come up you know during good
01:08:24
times or bad times and you know being inappropriate um again everyone everyone's got an
01:08:31
opinion and you know like when you jump in the taxi and uh and yeah they start telling you about foiling tax and how
01:08:36
you could do this that this better and everything else it's kind of it's pretty
01:08:40
hard case but um no I have to say um you know all in all like the the support that I've had through my career
01:08:48
you know particularly when I've been you know sailing as part of Team New Zealand
01:08:52
or whatever it's just been it's been phenomenal when they even you know like
01:08:55
when we're here with American Media you know just um I think the New Zealand Public in
01:09:01
relation to America's Cup probably are more accepting now that that you know
01:09:05
only a certain number of people can work for for Team New Zealand and then kiwis
01:09:09
go and work for other other teams because you know they're perceived as um been able to bring you know a lot of
01:09:15
a lot of you know probably good uh attributes to what their you know the other teams are doing and so
01:09:21
but yeah it's the support that I've always felt has been you know been pretty pretty special you know you
01:09:27
definitely treasure a lot of the uh a lot of that and um and you do realize that you know when
01:09:33
things don't go well that you do need to be you know be prepared to you know I
01:09:36
guess be able to stand there and and uh you know talk about you know the reasons why yeah yeah I I've had um
01:09:44
seriously Bloomfield sitting in that chair and he said someone came up to him once and said I I hope you have a bad
01:09:49
day and that's the worst he got um it is nice to know that um even when things are things are tough and people
01:09:55
feel like they've got a right to say something that they they just don't they
01:09:58
save that stuff for the internet and there was another I guess it's been a lesson you know avoid the internet
01:10:04
because that is you know like some of the forums and things that exist you know again they'd make you want to give
01:10:10
up you know before you even start you know because they again the keyboard Warriors you know they've got plenty to
01:10:15
say and uh yeah without any any sort of basis to to sort of um you know be able to to say you know Laurel what they do
01:10:23
say so yeah um but yeah when you when you reflect on your your career so far mostly happy
01:10:30
with it it's been a lot of highlights yeah there's a lot of yeah a lot of
01:10:35
things which I've you know really you know feel very fortunate to have had the
01:10:38
opportunity to do um now again you know if if you're you know reflecting on it San Francisco
01:10:44
definitely it was one that got away you know Valencia we we had a probably as good a shot as we could have you know
01:10:51
but I think in the end of long you were just again still still too strong um but yeah I've you know I've been just so
01:10:59
so lucky to work with you know some great teams and to be to be you know a part of that so you know I really have
01:11:05
enjoyed everything that I've done there um but you know you definitely reach a
01:11:09
point you know for me it was you know at 46 you know finding out about the uh the bowel cancer and that really
01:11:17
probably I guess rang you know it rang home at that point but things were um you know I needed to probably just take
01:11:25
a step back and and reevaluate you know where I was and what I was doing because
01:11:30
again the body's telling you something um it doesn't happen you know just
01:11:35
because it wants to but it's probably something going on that you need to probably address and how's the second
01:11:40
half of your life gonna look um you your kids are pretty much almost off your hands now right how uh
01:11:45
so we've got four kids um eldest one's just turned 18. um they're got a 15 14 12 so a few more
01:11:55
years people you're at the age now where you and you and Mandy can go out for
01:11:58
dinner and someone's going to look after someone yeah no it's good we're sort of
01:12:02
definitely you know you you do feel like you sort of get a bit of a bit of time back but and saying that you know the
01:12:08
kids are just so active with with school Sport and Club Sport and everything else
01:12:14
and it is actually really nice to see them going out and doing things for themselves you know like they we've
01:12:20
never pushed them into doing anything that they don't want to do themselves but it is nice to see uh see them really
01:12:27
active and I think the best part about it is that they're it's keeping them off
01:12:31
their devices and and everything else because it is very different now to now we used to go out there and climb trees
01:12:37
and you know like ride bikes around the neighborhood and you know now it's like
01:12:41
yeah oh there's so much that you can do on your devices yeah it's a completely
01:12:45
different game now isn't it so how long have you been 20 years yeah we got married and you're
01:12:52
just about yeah we got married in 2004. congratulations yeah so it's uh yeah I
01:12:58
don't know how Mandy's put up me for that long yeah how did you guys make so Mandy was
01:13:04
um she's she she's been out of the public eye for such a long time now I feel like
01:13:09
this is by Design but um yeah there was a time so she was seeing Mark Alice for a number of years
01:13:14
in their varsity days and they were like the couple of New Zealand like the sporting couple you had an all black and
01:13:19
a you know black Stacks hockey player um then then yeah how did you guys make how did that come about oh I was a blind
01:13:25
date after uh it was after 2000 I went over to Sydney and and uh uh and watch watch to play what you know
01:13:34
we don't watch the New Zealand hockey hockey team play their was their playoff
01:13:40
match to get into the gold and silver um yeah right against Argentina and you know it obviously didn't work out the
01:13:48
way they wanted but um I was aware of it you know of her then you know nothing really
01:13:55
um but you know later in the year we sort of um you know a mutual friend sort of set us up on a blind date and when we
01:14:00
went out I was um yeah Restless history but it's it was um yeah it was pretty
01:14:07
yeah it's been great like you know we've had some fantastic times together you
01:14:11
know we've been um I think having that sort of same more sharing you know passion for sport and
01:14:17
and sort of been involved in teams and everything else I think that's been been
01:14:21
great and yeah obviously we have a very competitive uh relationship at times like what about anything tennis or you
01:14:31
know like yes um or you know golf I've probably got the better of her on that one but it's
01:14:36
um but no no we've done things like board games though no no no no no no no no no but no it's been it's been
01:14:42
fantastic and she's you know she's been a huge you know support you know
01:14:46
um you know when things haven't been great you know um but never more so than you know
01:14:51
obviously going through the health the health issues yeah like um you know having that support I think you know
01:14:55
there's no way I would have got through what I'd been through without you know
01:14:58
having her there to to help through with that it's um you know because it is very very taxing
01:15:03
you know you sort of think you're dealing with it okay but you definitely have some some down time
01:15:08
or down days as well yeah without a doubt um and I suppose with her background in
01:15:13
high performance sport herself she can offer some sort of perspective on things like when
01:15:18
things like I suppose in 2013 San Francisco when when things don't go well or is it just a case of just her her
01:15:24
being there as your support person oh both you know yeah yeah she she obviously you know has has experienced
01:15:30
highs and lows with um with what she's done with the hockey and and other things as well and you know she um
01:15:37
you know she's she had a really tough um experience when new and she was young
01:15:41
her elder sister um you know died of a brain tumor you know you know at a very young age you know
01:15:47
early 20s and and so you know she's she's experienced some pretty tough personal losses as well
01:15:54
um and so um yeah it just helps to bring a balance because you know it is easy to sit there
01:16:01
sort of feeling you know a little bit down and maybe a bit sorry for yourself and you know just that sort of gentle
01:16:06
reminder that you know there's there's a there's other things going on out there as well and so
01:16:11
you know it is good to have that sort of grounding yeah so uh yeah so when's when do you know
01:16:17
when your wedding date is when's the 20th anniversary it's February yeah oh
01:16:21
next year next year will be 20 years right oh that's that's a milestone to be
01:16:25
proud of I got married in 2004 as well but I'm no longer with my wife so congratulations
01:16:31
oh thank you you know it's uh yeah it's oh yeah yeah obviously very lucky you
01:16:36
know we sort of had a you know a great relationship but it's um you know and
01:16:39
she's obviously never one sort of question you know traveling to Nevada carry on doing what we've been doing
01:16:45
um with all the different sailing and teams and what have you but but you know she's obviously been a huge
01:16:51
part of you know keeping the kids sorted organized and grounded and things you know because you know I've often had to
01:16:58
travel when things managed to be there for all the bursts which was probably an achievement but um I wouldn't be worth
01:17:04
living if you didn't yeah I don't know you didn't hear about that that's for
01:17:07
sure yeah what's that like I've never been able to have my own own kids so
01:17:10
I've never experienced that but it's um yeah it's an emotional experience just a
01:17:15
an exciting experience um the the first one I think is was definitely was definitely probably the
01:17:23
most interesting because you know you're in there you've had the baby well I
01:17:29
haven't Mandy has um and take a movement then a few hours later you know you're
01:17:33
basically walking out the front door of the hospital with the capsule going you know where's the instruction manual you
01:17:38
know like it's uh it's definitely and then by the time number four rolls
01:17:42
around you know you sort of basically you throw them the caption off you go you know it's like um you know very
01:17:47
different sort of uh the way you look at it the first one you know I think for everyone it's always
01:17:52
you know they're wrapped in Cotton wall and you know they're but you very
01:17:55
quickly realize how kind of uh robust they are and you know like that and the unique thing is how different they they
01:18:03
all are like just same parents but different you know completely different outcomes so yeah yeah yeah it's I've Got
01:18:11
Friends that say exactly the same thing like they said the first kid that you know race to a e in the middle of the
01:18:15
night with even a little cough and by the time of kid number three they could be like coughing in bed at night and
01:18:19
they're just like oh it'll be fine worry about it in the morning oh how good how
01:18:23
good um anyway thanks so much for coming over today no no come at all I really really
01:18:29
appreciate it I feel like you're one of these these people as I said at the beginning everyone knows but um yeah by
01:18:33
Design like no one knows a lot about Dean Barker because um you've just you're just one of these new zealanders
01:18:39
almost like an old school New Zealander where you've just like put your head
01:18:41
down McDonald's and got through with things so I appreciate you coming today
01:18:46
and being so open about everything yeah you do much running now are you mate I've got osteoarthritis in the middle of
01:18:52
my knee so the last year has been a test of patience trying to get back into it um but yeah I got out for 10K this
01:18:57
morning a bit slower now but I think I see you at the start line of one of the Auckland marathons I used to I used to
01:19:03
love right running was yeah was my release and I used to just love being you know because it was so transportable
01:19:09
every time you went to a Regatta or anything you know it was just so nice to go out for a runs to clear the heater
01:19:14
yeah and things and then you know just you know like as I got a little bit older just really struggle with calf
01:19:20
injuries you know just really struggled to get on top of it and just you know be be running and
01:19:26
yeah just have an issue and just you know then say I haven't got the biggest
01:19:29
carve so it probably doesn't help but um but yeah I used to love it but so yeah my my
01:19:34
Fitness training sort of cardios have ended up being more on the on the stationary bike you know Peloton and
01:19:39
that sort of thing yeah it's um oh aging mate it's it's uh it's a terrible thing
01:19:44
yeah yeah yeah um so what did you do a full Marathon just a couple of halves I did two or
01:19:51
three halves here yeah um how'd you get on you go right you're quite you're
01:19:55
quite a big donor you're taller than what I imagined I think yeah I think the
01:19:58
best time of it was a 132 oh [ __ ] but yeah I was okay I don't know what's your
01:20:04
what's your sort of oh let's not get into comparing time so it doesn't matter
01:20:08
it's a very personal thing right I I got down to like um I I did a one hour 23
01:20:14
half marathon which is good it took me years I I had a goal of breaking three hours in the marathon which is like four
01:20:20
four minutes 16k pace and I ended up doing that one and done but the work required to get me to that pace I
01:20:27
thought after doing it yeah could I do it again could I go back could I even go faster than two hours 57
01:20:33
which is what I did and the answer I came up with was probably maybe I could get down to 255 or two but whatever but
01:20:39
the amount of extra work required it just wouldn't be worth the extra satisfaction it would bring me yeah no
01:20:46
it's a you know running such a mental thing isn't it because you know you it's
01:20:50
so easy I remember the first half I did you know when you you line up and everyone just bolts and and you sort of
01:20:56
you get you get caught up with your adrenaline and everything else you know you sort of almost forget about
01:20:59
everything you know about pacing and things and yeah five or 10K in and you're going oh my God you know like
01:21:05
it's uh yeah so the second time around it was actually you know much it was much
01:21:10
easier you just sort of you know you have that discipline as you say you know you look at your
01:21:14
their timing and your pace and everything but because at the start line of a half marathon or a marathon
01:21:19
everyone's feeling good you know you've done the training you've tapered off
01:21:23
um you're feeling energized by being around the crowd but that's the hard
01:21:26
thing going slow than what you feel like you should in those opening case yeah yeah no it is you know because I
01:21:33
um we had uh working with us at Team New Zealand uh John Ackland who obviously oh
01:21:38
yeah yeah Legend is being so involved in high performance you know Sport and running and things and you know I
01:21:44
remember him saying you know like when I went to do the first one and said you know basically you've got to think of it
01:21:49
that 16k is probably where you want to feel like you've exerted half your energy you know and it's like yeah it
01:21:55
does it does sort of you know like the first time around it does definitely feel like that you know you you sort of
01:21:59
get there and you think oh it's only five to go but it's they are it's it's a
01:22:03
tough 5K yeah never done them full um you know it was one thing I was would have liked to have done but
01:22:09
still could still could I just got to transport the damn carves out but yeah yeah mate you've um you've been through
01:22:16
so much if you uh anything you want to put your mind to I reckon you could do seriously like you've been through a lot
01:22:23
yeah no I do I do definitely miss the running I'd like to I'd like to get back
01:22:27
into it but I just got out here try and sort that part yeah hey we're Dean Barker you're a great New
01:22:33
Zealander thank you so much for being uh so open with your um your professional and personal stories today really
01:22:38
appreciate it best of luck for whatever the future brings yeah you too [Music] thank you