00:00:06
Michael HST welcome to my podcast thank you Kilda how are you good good I can't
00:00:10
believe this is the first time um we've we've met in real life you and I were
00:00:14
practically neighbors for like 15 15 20 years so it seems yeah I but I never saw
00:00:18
you running past I um yeah we were like maybe 100 meters apart I was just up the
00:00:23
street from you I'd pass your house every day on the way to the the countown
00:00:27
supermarket sometimes you'd be out on your on on your chair on the front deck
00:00:31
um reading shirtless other times I'd hear you singing from an open window actually that's one of sitting on the FR
00:00:38
those particular front steps in the sun on a summers's afternoon with a book and
00:00:42
a beer that's probably the one thing I miss most about you know cuz we just moved from that place there for 28 years
00:00:49
which is quite significant but yeah that is the thing I would that was the thing
00:00:52
I would default to end of the day go and sit with the book and sit in the sun beautiful yeah by the way is is that
00:00:58
kind of um yeah we'll talk about that house for a little bit because um yeah
00:01:02
yeah the the the house that I was at just up the road from you on the um the sort of um cross intersection yeah um I
00:01:09
had that for like 20 years and um I went through a lot there and then um you know
00:01:14
when I when I left it was um it was quite a sad occasion actually but I had to remind myself that memories are
00:01:18
something you keep internally and the house doesn't actually keep them but yeah for you you and you and your wife
00:01:24
Jennifer yeah you had your two kids and they were home births as well the kids were born x marks the spot or did Mark
00:01:30
the Spot yeah no born in the living room yeah 28 years we were there um and but the thing is we had
00:01:39
decided some years back maybe two years back probably a bit longer I planted the
00:01:44
seed of um hey what are we going to be doing in the next decade CU as you get older you start thinking it's it's not
00:01:49
that I'm afraid of getting old I'm loving it but you know they are interesting years aren't they that
00:01:54
between 60 and 70 is a lot different to between 50 and 60 or 40 and 50 and so on
00:02:00
so and I planted the idea that we should probably get a place that you know less
00:02:05
not wood not made of wood you know stairs stairs no stairs and low maintenance and then you know we we were
00:02:14
thinking about it for a while and then Jennifer who's really canny at this stuff she saw this
00:02:20
uh uh apartment on the plans and we went and had a look and realized that one wasn't going to be big enough so we
00:02:26
bought two side by side and turned them into one but the point is my point that I'm getting to is that we were already
00:02:34
you know uh leaving the house kind of nine months before we left you know we'd
00:02:38
already so we had a long extraction a long goodbye and as you say you know all the memories are still intact and we had
00:02:46
a really full life full family memories and lots of occasions in that place so it was relatively straightforward I
00:02:55
lucked out because when we actually went put it on auction I had to go and make a film in Perth so
00:03:02
I wasn't there for any of the home open homes or any of that stuff so as luck
00:03:09
would have it you know but as I said to Jennifer it's work Jennifer you know I
00:03:12
was in a film and then I came back and then I had to go perform on a show in Wellington for three weeks while they
00:03:19
moved so I miss out on the move as well so I yeah exactly you're a terrible human being I am a no well I'm not
00:03:26
really I've made up for I've put my hand up I'll be the Body Corp representative
00:03:30
for the flat oh good luck with that you're going to you're going to regret
00:03:33
that I'm on I'm on the body C committee here the the amount of like WhatsApp
00:03:37
group messages about you know yeah someone needs to spend $110 on some screws or a lock box or whatever it is
00:03:44
every purchase has to be yeah I know well that's coming we haven't fully we
00:03:48
haven't had our first meeting yet but Le but I've you know in all fairness I had
00:03:52
to said look I need to do that cuz I missed out and all that other stuff but yeah so we moved we're we're happy we
00:03:57
don't regret anything no great um and and is it um is it weird for you when um
00:04:03
there's someone like me that lives like 100 MERS up the road and I know who you
00:04:06
are and I know what you're doing on your front deck and you've got no idea who I
00:04:09
am well it's that's sort of the way life has been for me really you sort of get
00:04:14
used to it um actually I saw a Jimmy Carr the comedian the other day a little clip and someone said what's it like
00:04:20
being famous he said it's great he said it's lovely it's like living in a
00:04:24
village and you're the only one that's got Alzheimer's which is sort of Segways
00:04:29
into the place we doing I suppose because uh they all know me but I don't know anybody else and you sort of go
00:04:36
yeah in some ways that's part of the life I've had cuz you know I do get seen
00:04:41
by a lot of people on stage on film TV though really yeah it's I just I never
00:04:47
worry about it you with with you and what you do is it more a case that people see you and they're like I know
00:04:52
that guy I know that guy from somewhere yeah pretty much you've got one of those
00:04:57
faces or I have got one of those faces and and I know um I when I years ago when I first got the um the job in
00:05:04
Hercules in the '90s I mean that went from nothing to quite a big thing and and um I remember going to the states
00:05:13
and I was there at Universal Pictures one day doing some editing on it because I've been directing and this editor said
00:05:19
oh Michael you must get recognized all the time I said in fact no I don't and
00:05:22
he said come on you must and I said okay I'll make a bit with you and we stood
00:05:26
outside the editing room on Universal Studio and watched um an entire one of those
00:05:33
sort of wagon trains of tourists that do the tour around the lot and they're all
00:05:37
coming past and I said watch this and I stood right out in front of them and I waved at everybody and the show was a
00:05:44
bit of a hit at that point you know nobody recognized me whatsoever but were you were you costumed up though well no
00:05:51
well they' have even then if I'd have been in the costume that have thought I
00:05:54
was some other actor pretending to be me wouldn't they I don't know if you're
00:05:58
waving a sword around I don't know it was just one of those things I've never
00:06:01
really and yet sometimes other people um you know the ocidental in Vulcan Lane the pub there the Belgian beer Pub I
00:06:09
went in there one day and this big guy I don't know what he whether he's
00:06:14
Belgian or German or whatever but he went it's you it's you and I went what
00:06:19
he it's you you are um on Hercules Hercules totally got it and couldn't believe that I was just walking around
00:06:26
having a beer couldn't believe it just thought it was like outrageous thought I
00:06:30
should be I mean most people think that about in new New Zealand they don't care
00:06:34
you can honestly Fame I mean for me anyway uh I remember I remember things like I once got a fan letter which was
00:06:43
addressed to eolus that's my character eolis ockland and I got the letter oh
00:06:49
that's amazing yeah and another another time I remember I was um this this was
00:06:54
great I we'd been in a fan convention cuz I still do those in um in La this was early 2000s and we' been in Pasadena
00:07:03
and there was a crowd of thousands of people and they these things you can do anything they love you you know cuz it's
00:07:09
all elevated and you really have to keep a lid on it keep it in a box you know anyway lots of agulation for a whole
00:07:16
weekend thousands of people the following weekend I was at the helensville A&P show and I decided I was
00:07:24
returning a favor to we' used somewhere as a location so I was there to sign
00:07:29
autographs so a week after this big thing I go there I walk up and it's the middle of the Scottish dancing Highland
00:07:36
fling Heats or something and there's a guy on the microphone he's going this is
00:07:41
Fiona bloody whatever her name is Fiona she's just oh hang on a minute I've just
00:07:44
got a note here oh look Michael Hurst is here where are you Mich oh there he is he'll be coming in he'll be sitting down
00:07:50
here he'll be signing a few autographs right here's young Sharon wellby she's
00:07:54
from me and then the thing everybody was interested in the dancing I'm sitting
00:07:58
there at this bloody table with all this white paper on it and all these felt pens and no one came up meanwhile the
00:08:05
Scottish dancing going on so I started doodling and signing my own name I was really you know and I just early a week
00:08:11
before I've been you know woried as it were anyway on the fence mildy guy youngish guy looking at me doing giving
00:08:19
the oldd eyebrow flick and then finally I acknowledge him and he went he Michael
00:08:24
I went yep he went what are you famous for I went there I am back in Al and that's a good
00:08:34
thing God you famous for hard to not keep your feet on the ground right exactly um there's um there's so much to
00:08:43
talk about with you with the Michael his story like you mentioned your wife Jennifer a couple of times early on and
00:08:47
that's um Jennifer W leand who's the Kiwi Bank New Zealander of the year A
00:08:51
couple of years ago also full disclosure um I was a massive fan of hers um as a a
00:08:57
teenage boy when she was in the front front the fr M Inc stuff great time that was that was
00:09:03
the ' 80s that was a special time for us yeah um an incredible um yeah relationship and and marriage that you
00:09:09
guys have got so we'll get into that the Hercules stuff as well we'll get into
00:09:12
that that was um the the impact of show like that has it's it's insane he it's
00:09:16
incredible well you know I don't think it was as big here well I know it wasn't
00:09:20
as big here as as as it was everywhere else um and I still get fan mail I still get from places you know in South
00:09:28
America or or Eastern Europe or somewhere and um of course the big thing for me was uh once it got traction um it
00:09:37
was a huge life change I mean it bought me a house it it really shifted my entire life on that level you know I was
00:09:45
able to save some money and um and then the other thing that happened for me was
00:09:50
I got to direct a whole bunch of those shows and I don't think people I don't
00:09:56
know if they realize or not how big they were were big shows millions of dollars
00:10:02
they had you know we had five different Studios all around the town they they um
00:10:07
leased a whole lot of land out west um Sturges Road and they it was like a basically an ex farm and they put roads
00:10:16
in and built Villages and millions of dollars and lots of U infrastructure cameras big 35mm cameras so consequently
00:10:25
I leared to do these enormous shows at a fast pace fast turn around television and you know sometimes we had five
00:10:32
cameras and cranes in the days when a crane a camera on a crane meant also two people on the crane as well to operate
00:10:39
it cuz this whole you know um uh digital operating and cameras hoote heads and all of that that wasn't around then that
00:10:46
was brand new yeah and so I cut my teeth on you know really learned to do this so
00:10:51
nothing really phases me now I mean well that explains a lot because yeah you did
00:10:54
say earlier on that you you sold the house and you bought like two apartments instead and I i' hate for anyone
00:10:59
listening to to thinking well I I must get into doing plays yeah these are good money yeah well plays I mean I love
00:11:06
theater it's the thing I started with it's thing I go back to all the time
00:11:10
it's thing I do mostly if I could do theater all the time I would um but the
00:11:17
reality is that you know you you would not be able to make the living I make in the television world in the theater
00:11:24
World especially in New Zealand you know that's a whole other issue how it seems
00:11:28
to have been sort of doesn't get taken seriously I don't think enough theater in this
00:11:33
country but that's just me um but yeah uh yeah so it's good I I direct TV so I
00:11:39
can afford to do plays I suppose a sad State of Affairs I think most actors probably do that you know yeah you love
00:11:45
it he and it has been very good to you as well and that's um part of the reason
00:11:48
you're here today that you've got a a brand new play called um in other words
00:11:52
uh which is just you and your wife Jennifer on stage together yes it is for the first time actually we we have been
00:11:59
in plays before but we've never just been in a two-hander you know with the two of us and um and there was a play we
00:12:07
did in oh God 2003 or four called the goat at Silo which a lot of people will remember and it's one of the best plays
00:12:15
ever written best modern players Edward Alby and although there were four people
00:12:19
in that play Jennifer and I played the married couple and it was you know very close to the Bone because we're married
00:12:26
and it's like this one too the fact that we're married and have been married and
00:12:30
have had a relationship for so long already we've only been rehearsing it for a couple of days we've already been
00:12:35
right through the whole play and we can see these habits and relationships it's
00:12:40
it's going to be I think it'll be a good play it's a Well I know it's a good play
00:12:44
because I read it and I just thought it was fantastic yeah and yeah how do you find out working together who who sort
00:12:49
of takes the lead of um like boss boss or controller oh me I see I said that with a straight
00:12:56
face uh look it's a it's it's give and take we we that we we can ask us quite a
00:13:01
lot actually well how do we work together well we trained we got the same we had
00:13:08
the same um work ethic I think and When We Were Young when I was 25 I met Jennifer when she was 20 and she was uh
00:13:17
a student or she just graduated from uh theater corporate drama school theater corporate was a a theater group
00:13:24
professional theater group founded by Raymond Hawthorne in the mid '70s and it
00:13:29
lasted till 1986 and it was an unbelievable training ground for us the company we just kept
00:13:37
working I had five years of working there and uh the work ethic is always about the show first actors second your
00:13:44
performance is only a step among other steps to make a show um and uh proper technique proper proper theater
00:13:53
technique which sadly is lacking these days there's no other way to describe
00:13:59
but you know how to make an entrance how to actually do the thing that audiences
00:14:04
don't realize is being done to them which is a big deal a lot of acting craft hundreds and thousands of years of
00:14:12
of buildup to this craft you know it's not a not something you take lightly and
00:14:16
um anyway so we have the same ethic and the same methods and the same um sense of punctuality and we don't like mucking
00:14:24
around I can't stand mucking around you know rehearsal go let's go let's work
00:14:30
call it work call it what it is it's not just faffing about in funny costumes so
00:14:34
um and that in that way we we we we critique each other quite a lot um because you can sort of it takes one to
00:14:41
no one you know what I mean so I can see [ __ ] if it's [ __ ] and so can she
00:14:45
and so we just there that mutual respect as well so I suppose you can both get away with that and we respect well I
00:14:51
mean I think part of the I think one of the things that's good about Jennifer
00:14:55
and me is we actually like each other's work it would be terrible if I I thought
00:14:59
she was a Naf actress not a very good actress or or you know but she's fantastic and she's a great singer you
00:15:04
know and um so yeah so we just it's it's fairly even in fact we we weren't we
00:15:10
asked a couple of people if they direct this play but it's it's subject matter
00:15:15
it's it's about dementia it's not I I hasten to say it is not a depressing
00:15:21
play it is an uplifting amazing emotionally beautiful play dealing with a serious problem and
00:15:29
um um yeah um see there we go it's about Dimension and I forgotten what I was
00:15:34
going to say yeah how um yeah by the way we'll get into aging soon because you're
00:15:40
66 you look bloody remarkable by the way oh thanks very much I see you I see you
00:15:44
I see you're on your bike from time to time often often singing while you're
00:15:48
riding it is worth what it's an ear bike though so it's minimal pedling oh now
00:15:52
now now they I still get a sweat up cuz I go bloody fast and I do have all the dials up but I go you know I don't like
00:16:00
again I don't like it's me for me I always think things like showers and
00:16:04
stairs get in the way of life you know they slow you up I hate having showers I just want to get in and out and I can't
00:16:10
anyway that's whole other question yeah so so yeah so in other words you um you
00:16:15
you plan married couple that um and I I get onset I get dementia yeah yeah and you you start young and you age through
00:16:21
the well this is the thing it's interesting they they they say that in the in the um in the script you know
00:16:27
they they age before our eyes this script is quite a new script that's what I was going to say the other people we
00:16:34
asked to direct it they've both got people in their lives with dementia and it's just too hard for them so that's
00:16:40
why so we thought let's just do it ourselves with um our producer um Callum who's a lovely guy so the three of us
00:16:47
that's how we're working but yeah it starts off um it's what I love about the
00:16:53
play is it's not like oh let's take them through their lives we actually talk to
00:16:57
the audience and we have this sort of existence outside of it so we can it's
00:17:04
like hey remember when we did this and might act a bit of that and you can get to a point where there might be a sticky
00:17:10
piece coming where say I um we first start noticing that I forget things or it might be the the part where there's a
00:17:17
moment where he doesn't recognize his wife which is incredibly moving and I'll
00:17:22
say to Jennifer oh I'm really sorry about this but that's really hard and
00:17:26
she yeah it was hard oh well should we and then we go and do it so there's a
00:17:31
commenting level on it which I think is really smart it's so moving and yeah it
00:17:36
gets tricky um I when I read it I actually I actually cried when I read this the the first time which is because
00:17:44
I I couldn't I couldn't help imagining what Jennifer would had to have to deal
00:17:50
with if I really did start losing my mind and she had to become the carer something she sort of didn't sign up for
00:17:58
but when you get married you do sign up for that and and I found that very moving and of course I can't act that in
00:18:04
the show cuz in the show I'm happy cuz I'm just you're Delirious I'm yeah I'm delusional and I
00:18:13
you know it I can't play the end of the show and my performance so um I have to
00:18:17
get past that he are you you said you cried when you read the script are you quite an emotional guy you see you said
00:18:23
you you went too emotional about leaving the house that you're no but I am well
00:18:26
that's because we dealt with it you no I am an emotional person and I do I I I I
00:18:30
don't think you can be an actor and not be emotional cuz you you know the or
00:18:34
it's not just about feeling things I mean you have to act but emotional recall and um for me it's a it's more
00:18:43
physical than anything you know although the the memory of of the birth of my two
00:18:50
sons is pretty powerful and that does give me an enormous amount emotional well but but more often than not for me
00:18:57
to get into to that state it's a physical thing what does your body do when you are you know upset or angry or
00:19:06
and I always go back to Childhood cuz usually that's where it's all laid down
00:19:10
and I know when things when I was little and I and I things were just unfair it was always about that for some reason
00:19:17
and I can remember what my body did face the chin my chin used to go first all this goes dry and then before
00:19:25
you know it physically you know and you start to bre bring that up and that's
00:19:30
the then you need to place that where you need it you know um I suppose other people get there by recalling in a
00:19:37
therapy way uh I just think that's a bit scattered for me because it's it sort of
00:19:41
it means you you end up it's not as controlled and I think acting's about
00:19:46
Controlled Chaos yeah yeah not chaos so you you okay you just touched on your chter let's let's um go back there and
00:19:53
talk about that so you you're born in the UK you moved to New Zealand at at eight eight years old yeah 1966 what
00:19:58
what are your memories of that type that transition time from being a K in the UK
00:20:02
to moving to Christ Church as an a uh well so where I came from in St Helens which is near Liverpool in the north of
00:20:07
England if you can stretch any listeners viewers if you can imagine Coronation Street when it was in black and white
00:20:14
back in the day those miserable streets with all the smoke I lived in that so I went from suti Grime north of England
00:20:24
houses built you know terrorist houses and grimy streets slums basically that have been there for 50 80 90 years
00:20:32
you know um I moved from that to Christ Church so I went from a school in England where the playground was ashel
00:20:43
with brick walls around it and in the top of the brick walls embedded in concrete and cement were broken bottles
00:20:50
to stop people climbing over you know that's how they used to do it I went from that to open rugby fields to
00:20:57
Elmwood normal School in Christ Church flat open skies blue uh wooden houses everything wooden and all the space
00:21:07
couldn't believe that was my first big memory it was amazing to me and um and I
00:21:13
remember that you know I remember some grief about leaving but I I don't know I
00:21:17
was it was a big shift we came on a plane which is unusual in those days three three days on a dc8 took us three
00:21:24
days to get here um and yeah for an 8-year-old that must feel like a lifetime it it you know it's hard to
00:21:33
that was the biggest thing the space and the the fact that it it did feel old it
00:21:38
did feel when I say old oldfashioned I felt a lot of that stuff drop away that big cities have cuz there wasn't that I
00:21:48
mean back then it still took six weeks for anything to get here by mail because it mostly came by by ship yeah you know
00:21:55
remember TV was six months behind everything was behind you know all the Fashions would the magazines would
00:22:02
arrive and then the fashion would arrive and you know everything was behind and I
00:22:06
guess over my life I've seen things rev up you know and and being um you know
00:22:11
going through the school system here in New Zealand as you the last couple years
00:22:14
of primary school then intermediate then um panoi High School um what what was that like being a kid from the UK with
00:22:20
an English accent at the beginning it was not good they they um I was a very small blond haired wh skinned people
00:22:28
used to sort of pick on me a bit and um so I lost my accent pretty quickly cuz my accent were like that I had flat as a
00:22:35
bandake do like that all time you know my mom my dad they all talk like that you know I go back and it's like that
00:22:41
and but you know I'm a mimic of most actors have a good mimic um ability and
00:22:47
so I can hear accents really quickly so that served me well cuz I lost it really
00:22:53
quickly I got brown sunburnt actually those are the days when the waiter toughen up your skin for the sun was to
00:23:00
get burnt on the first chance you could get and toughen it up but um and then I after that I just
00:23:08
um I was just I just went through the school system I mean I loved my high school year I I years I luckily papanui
00:23:18
High had a bit of a tough reputation um and I didn't bother when I went from intermediate applying for
00:23:23
Christ Church boy high or any of those because I wanted to be in the top dream I just knew my I'd been my dad had
00:23:31
always told me you go to bloody University and so it was in my blood and I wanted that and I figured quite
00:23:38
smartly I think that I'd have a better chance of getting in the top stream at
00:23:42
papanui high than I would at one of the more competitive ones I guess that was my reasoning and as it happened I did
00:23:48
get into the top stream at the same time as a whole bunch of new teachers arrived
00:23:52
who were all hellbent on new teaching and so I got this ride through the high school years of amazing teachers like
00:24:02
and just I had a fantastic time at at papanui and then of course you look at it you know people ask me when did you
00:24:10
want to be an actor well I never thought about being an actor at any of that time
00:24:14
except that if you look at it I was um a champion fencer so I won the uh CER be for V foil fencing championships and all
00:24:24
of that so that was one thing uh first in English debating prize public speaking prize
00:24:32
what else was I going to be you know I was all it seem like I was unconsciously preparing all these skills and I did a
00:24:39
few Productions and things but um I really just wanted to go to university and uh so I stayed right through to the
00:24:48
uh seventh form last year at school year 12 or whatever it is and then I went to
00:24:54
University to can University and during that first week a first year I got the part of Paddington Bear in the
00:25:02
Canter children repeter society's whatever it is production of Paddington beer big suit big padding I
00:25:10
mean it nearly killed me as I recall but someone came to see it from the court Theater which is a professional theater
00:25:16
in chur and on the strength of this weird performance asked me to go on audition and that's how that started so
00:25:24
it really wasn't until ID left school that it became apparent to me that I could do this so but yeah high school
00:25:31
was fantastic for me yeah and and hindsight um having to blend in and change your accent to like
00:25:38
be a be a kiwi is that where it all sort of started do you think I don't know I
00:25:43
was always AIT a bit of a showof I don't know always you know I can I was always
00:25:48
one of the things good actors can tell jokes I think or good joke tellers could make actors I was always good at telling
00:25:55
jokes my dad always was brilliant at telling jokes and it was a thing that I really liked doing so I I did have a
00:26:01
sort of showoff ability and I was making up I guess for being the shortest person
00:26:06
in the room generally um I went through a Christian phase um and became the best
00:26:12
at that I was really good at [ __ ] yeah I spoke in tongues and I did all of it you
00:26:18
know better than anybody because that was just the way so and then if you think about it that a lot of that is
00:26:23
acting it's all acting it's all hysterical stuff you know I mean and so yeah I did all with that I was part of
00:26:29
the um commonwealth games games Christian Outreach 1974 and we would uh go and um we would
00:26:37
turn up at these events outside the Commonwealth Games in Christ Church at that time and we'd all been trained and
00:26:44
we would arrive with um sort of a like a Truck Van thing the side would fall down
00:26:50
they'd set up the band Christian band Jesus Loves You Jesus and that nonsense
00:26:55
and we would lurk around the outside with our our Bibles I've still got the Bible and you'd see spot someone you
00:27:02
know you'd see if they've been moved by the Lord by the spirit you know you
00:27:05
might see them start shedding a tear or sh whatever it is lots of we did training in this honestly the game The
00:27:12
Game's Christian Outreach so you spot someone that looks like they've been
00:27:15
moved by the spirit you go up and you go do you know the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal savior would you like to I
00:27:22
mean it sounds so oh my God but we did oh sorry but we did that I did that so yeah I mean I I did all of that and then
00:27:29
of course the theater came along and I went from sort of the church to the dirty Church which is kind of because
00:27:37
theater is based on a it's religious it's based on on spiritual stuff it's
00:27:43
it's a communion it just hasn't got the nonsense in it and what about um you're
00:27:48
obsessed with Shakespeare right where did your love of Shakespeare is OB obsessed and un well no not an unfair
00:27:53
word I comparatively well I'm trying to pinpoint yeah that's a tricky one I I I
00:28:00
know I um I know that in the fourth form so what's that I'm sorry like 14 a boomer
00:28:08
that's why I'm second year in high school yeah yeah um our teacher Alan bun who I who I am
00:28:16
eternally grateful one of the ones that I'm eternally grateful uh to for his
00:28:21
teaching um he actually had a small spear carrying part in a production of King Le and at the um the uh Court
00:28:30
theater as I say professional theater in Christ Church this was in 1972 And so we all went along from the
00:28:38
class and um oh my God it was unbelievable I don't know if it was a really good production what I do know
00:28:45
though is that then the theater was basically in a in a a room the old courtrooms it was just a big living room
00:28:52
really so really close to the action the audience and the there was no difference
00:28:57
and I just remember King Leah standing literally next to me like as if he's here next to the chair with his arms
00:29:04
stretched out above my head going blow winds and crack your cheeks and I'm going holy [ __ ] this St then there was a
00:29:11
guy having his eyes ripped out and there was it was unbelievably physical and visceral you know and I remember and I
00:29:18
remember Alan bun standing there as the Duke of burgundy I think you know and I I was overwhelmed by it and then I never
00:29:25
really thought about it much but then later in the sixth form so second to last year year 11 whatever it is uh we
00:29:33
went and saw Roman pansy's film of McBeth which of course you know for boys it's pretty amazing because there's
00:29:40
franches Anis is Lady MCB Beth totally naked in the sleepwalking scene so there were boobs but then what struck me and
00:29:48
this is this is where I this is a memory I really treasure there's a scene at the
00:29:53
beginning of MC Beth where um after the witches where um uh the king comes in with Malcolm and his sons and they see
00:30:02
this Sergeant covered in blood and the King says what bloody man is that and the S the son said this is the sergeant
00:30:09
and the sergeant can tell us the story of what mcbeth's been doing and he talks
00:30:14
about Brave McBeth how amazing he was and tells about this battle and in the battle he says he kept pushing pushing
00:30:22
um and didn't stop until he had split the fellow from the Nave to the chops he'd cut him from the balls right
00:30:30
through to the you know and in this speech on screen in pansy's version they're all standing around on the beach
00:30:37
looking like real men proper fully you know realized medieval men and when he said that split him from the Nave to the
00:30:45
chops they all burst out laughing but re like and I went they are laughing at a real joke this is a real joke it's real
00:30:57
it's full of it's red blooded as it were it's completely in your face and it's
00:31:02
got It's not lofty or removed and I remember going this is fantastic it's
00:31:08
and that's what I've always looked for ever since in Shakespeare is that
00:31:11
reality of it cuz it's not lofty and aloof it is poetic it is profound it has
00:31:18
all those things in it but it's just really real you know um that's what he's
00:31:24
famous for so and I remember it very clearly and then after that I just it became a mystery to me what is
00:31:30
this Shakespeare thing and then at the court when I did join the court um as a trainee for two years and this director
00:31:38
El Hooper came down and did a production of athell and I was just a spear carrier
00:31:43
and I still remember the lines it was just a messenger coming in um uh but I practiced and practiced and and on that
00:31:50
one speech it's only about 10 lines I was able to practice all the stuff that
00:31:55
I was being taught and I went wow this is really this really is right it works so yeah that's kind of how it worked and
00:32:02
ever since since then I've gosh well I've played Hamlet twice and played MC
00:32:09
Beth twice I've played King Leah I've played the fool twice I've directed
00:32:14
McBeth and Hamlet I've I've directed aalo I've I've directed Romeo and Juliet
00:32:19
and 12 night and as you like it and I've just been in lot yeah and I love it
00:32:23
you're like a hardcore fan yeah and I would keep doing it and I think we should do it I think people be exposed
00:32:28
to it if Shakespeare was at like a ComiCon or something you'd be there getting his a if Shakespeare was alive
00:32:33
today he'd be writing for Netflix and he'd be their best writer that's I
00:32:36
always keep that in mind don't think of it as old FY ddy think of it as [ __ ]
00:32:41
passionate and well it's stood the test of time I'm um I'm almost envious of um
00:32:46
you know seeing how passionate you are when you talk about it because I think my experience is prob the same as most
00:32:49
people where you have like a Bor disillusion teacher that's just doing the curriculum I know passing it I know
00:32:56
and I was the opposite I had these great great teachers and then I just got into
00:32:59
it you know I've seen it done and I've done it and seen people moved by it and
00:33:05
and and I've actually done Productions where I've held an entire audience of
00:33:09
school kids in th they've literally been glued to it because we got the recipe
00:33:14
right you know you know it's just about getting that right and a lot of that
00:33:18
comes down to the comes back to the craft actually CU if anybody invented modern acting or
00:33:24
well I say modern acting if anybody invented theater we know it was Shakespeare have you ever have you ever
00:33:31
had a normal a real job have you managed to to to get to retirement age doing what you love yep
00:33:38
yeah that's amazing never been and so is Jennifer we've never done never I've
00:33:42
never been a waiter never I started got my first professional gig when I was 18 um that's when I joined the court
00:33:48
theater and then just stayed there 18 to I I moved to ockland just after my 21st
00:33:54
birthday joined theater corporate stayed there for three years then became freelance had a year of doing a few
00:34:01
things made a few TV things and made a movie I think death warmed up and then I went back to theater corporate playing
00:34:08
lead roles then the Mercury then we started the Watershed uh then I got um Hercules then
00:34:15
came out then there was Oran theater company and I just my we did my own productions for a while so yeah been Con
00:34:22
in a country of the size of New Zealand husband and wife doing doing this it's
00:34:26
awesome yeah it's pretty I'm I'm I'm I'm lucky yeah we're both we're lucky we're
00:34:31
fortunate and having said that we work hard that's we we don't um we don't
00:34:36
we're not we don't sit on our asses that much and I don't want to either the
00:34:39
older I get the more I want the more I want to learn in fact um you know just three years ago maybe four years ago I
00:34:45
got this part in called um a play called an Iliad which is basically a reduction
00:34:51
of Homer Iliad um in a in a in a it's a the guy it's a guy telling you the story
00:34:59
2 hours and 20 minutes long no break one person it's like learning a book and I
00:35:05
just went I'm up for this and I am I want more I want to do that because that
00:35:10
is the the muscle the brain the brain muscle yeah and I've had like a lot of
00:35:17
people of different ages on the podcast and you know you talk about retirement and stuff and if if you're if you're
00:35:22
doing what you love then there is no yeah 100% I think it's a healthy way to
00:35:26
go you know there's a line in there's a line from um Rosen cran and gildon are
00:35:30
dead by Tom stard after my Hercules stint I I had to pull out pull out of theater for a while because it just
00:35:37
became too busy and my the first play I did back after doing that TV series for eight years was this play Rosen cron
00:35:45
Gilden Stoner did and I played a character called the actor and so suddenly I'm coming and I just and my
00:35:51
first line was to walk on stage look at the audience and go ah an audience and I'd been missing an audience out was
00:35:58
such a great role and there's a line in it where he says do you know what happens to Old
00:36:04
actors no nothing they're still acting and that's the truth I love it yeah I love it hey you mentioned um just
00:36:13
before um death warmed up which is your first movie um knowing you were coming around today I I I did as much research
00:36:19
as I could and there's a an old interview on you on online and you talk about this movie so The Story Goes you
00:36:26
made the movie you didn't get to it beforehand first time you saw it was on the big screen at I a preview and then
00:36:33
and then I thought my career was over is the true I I couldn't I I just I've
00:36:39
thought about this moment a lot I couldn't relate to the face I was seeing I mean anybody that's not in film or
00:36:47
television listening to this watching this you have to understand when you see yourself from angles that you can't
00:36:53
possibly see yourself from so from behind you see the back of your head it's really disturbing at the beginning
00:36:59
it's like when you hear your voice first as a recorder anyway I just hated it I
00:37:05
I'm sorry David blle I just I just I I wasn't prepared for what I was seeing and it was a test audience full
00:37:15
of teenagers and it was at this movie theater that doesn't exist anymore halfway down Queen Street cinama I think
00:37:22
anyway and um and I I was so uh upset by what I'd seen that I just got up at the end and I
00:37:31
couldn't talk to anybody not even Jennifer and I literally walked out of that movie theater and walked straight
00:37:38
up Queen Street across AA square the square wasn't there at that point AA Center wasn't there I should say and
00:37:45
into Maya's Park and I sat on a park bench in Mya's Park and I cried I thought what the [ __ ] have I done I
00:37:52
really just cried I was having a bit of a crisis I think but as it happened I then had to go up to the theater
00:37:59
theater cor because I was in a play the Winter's Tale by William Shakespeare and
00:38:04
I was playing florelle the prince sounds like an air fresh but anyway new florelle um and I got on stage and I did
00:38:13
the Shakespeare and I thought you know what this is I'm going to stay here and
00:38:17
I didn't do any TV or film for ages after that I was just so and I I think I was just going
00:38:23
through something you know but the irony is they did a reprint a brand new print
00:38:28
of that film because it won a prize somewhere in Paris and it has some reputation and uh this is a couple of
00:38:36
years back and they were screening it at the Hollywood brand new print and we were there as guests and I thought I'm
00:38:41
not going to go because I've not seen it since then I'd not seen it how how many
00:38:45
years are we talking when uh 1983 maybe something like that W okay so like 40 40
00:38:50
years yeah I'd not seen I'd not seen it so we turn I thought oh go I've got to
00:38:55
bury this I've got to get past this so went to there and my two sons came and
00:38:59
they their mates and they all you know quite liked it they didn't have a bad
00:39:02
thing to say really and I was supposed to go onto a panel afterwards and talk about it but
00:39:09
I'm telling you I hated it then and I still hate it that's not the end of the story I was
00:39:15
expecting I thought you would have been more gentle on yourself no I couldn't
00:39:18
and there was a poor reporter beforehand who he just kept asking me questions about how much I'd learned making it
00:39:25
well I could barely remember making the bloody thing so I just went nothing I couldn't answer anything and on the
00:39:30
panel I couldn't really I had to dodge questions cuz I just was still going why did I oh look
00:39:37
it doesn't matter let's put it away we move on from that wow but could you could you look at
00:39:43
it um objectively now and and think think I okay you I had some you had some acting mirror well that was me trying to
00:39:49
look at it objectively I mean and I've seen a lot of performances still CU remember I direct a lot of television
00:39:54
and I've directed a lot of American actors and English actors so I know what
00:39:57
acting looks like and I can forgive myself a few things I can I just think the whole thing was just just wony for
00:40:05
me that's all I look it's just it was just um I wasn't prepared for it I don't
00:40:10
think I realized what it really was and it took me a while to get over the shock
00:40:17
and it's not I still look at it now and I go oh yeah you know I've I've done
00:40:21
better things wow oh that's great um okay let's talk about the Hercules stuff so you
00:40:28
touched upon this before this was a golden time for uh like International TV but again as you as you said not not as
00:40:34
big in New Zealand's overseas but there was yeah Hercules young Hercules and
00:40:38
Zeno which made Lucy la Lucy LS before that like did an ASB series of EDS she did a few things she was we did a couple
00:40:45
of I've worked n her since the 80s and she we did a few of the Typhon people
00:40:49
and a couple of Dramas you know around um Hercules was the initial idea which robbed
00:40:58
who's now married to to Lucy so he's partners with Sam Ry Evil Dead so Rob
00:41:03
and Sam and Bruce Campbell who's the star of the E original Evil Dead movies
00:41:08
back in the 80s that's how they made their push CU they that film we were watching it coincidentally we were
00:41:15
watching a uh an illegal print of it while we were shooting death wared up which is quite weird cuz when I met Rob
00:41:25
years later and said do you know that we were watching this and he said who the hell did you get that print from but um
00:41:31
uh so there is a sort of connection there um anyway um so they came down here with
00:41:37
this Hercules idea Hercules without togers Hercules done like we did it you know and
00:41:45
comedic and it was part of Universal Pictures actionpack series they made I think seven shows these were the days of
00:41:54
syndicated television so before streaming and and um anyway we made we were going to make 13 well we made four
00:42:02
1hour Telly movies I was in the first one and I died but then I think they saw some uh
00:42:11
some potential there and so they rewrote it I believe and had me come back to life as you do you know the planet goes
00:42:18
backwards or something and um then they made after they made these first four movies they made a fifth one which is
00:42:25
called a bottle show bottle shows are where you go hey do you remember that time we and it goes woo woo woo and they
00:42:31
go and they bring an flash yeah flashbacks so bottle shows shows in a bottle so he made one of those about all
00:42:37
the four movies and held it strung it together with this funny story with Kevin Sorbo who was the actor playing
00:42:43
Hercules and myself and we did a whole little shtick that we justed and that's
00:42:46
what I believe got their attention hey there's a series in this and suddenly we
00:42:51
got booked for um 13 episodes and uh that was when I just thought honestly my audition I thought
00:42:59
it was the worst thing I'd ever the script it was like Hey must have been some kind of monster it was all like
00:43:05
that and I turned up just doing my best John Wayne you know hey Hercules come over here but I got the part cuz I
00:43:12
turned up with you know I was really fit and buff I had no a singlet on and I had
00:43:16
a big metal sword from a Shakespeare play so I'm you know anyway got the P um
00:43:22
yeah we we then Lucy and I because what happened was she was in an episode a three episode storyline as this
00:43:31
character Zena and Rob went I reckoned there's something in that sent a whole
00:43:36
lot of footage of Lucy in her outfit fighting and then Universal they apparently just me yeah we want that and
00:43:43
so Zena got picked up just like that yeah it was a mess of her mess and and to its credit is the one that lasts it's
00:43:50
it's way got way more impact than Hercules ever had but the day that I realized we were going to be doing a lot
00:43:57
of shows because we made 120 episodes or something um the day it was going to get
00:44:03
really picked up and the day that Lucy got Zena we both got put on a plane to America first class and we're sitting on
00:44:10
this plane going this was so cool and we got there and we had the full nine yards you know
00:44:16
it was all the full this is what it's going to be like it's going to be a long
00:44:19
running thing and it was it rain for years and years and um got crazier and crazier and it just yeah it just
00:44:28
American money American rates got membership of the Screen Actors Guild and the Director's Guild and um it just
00:44:34
set us up it was a very very that's when we decided to have kids so you know
00:44:39
Jennifer and I went well this is going to last for five four years at least it lasted for seven I think you know so um
00:44:47
we had kids you and remember I was 37 when I started that lot of people think I was younger but no I was already I had
00:44:53
a career I'd already done I'd already played all these roles you know so um it
00:44:58
was a uh it was uh when it got to the end of it so I was what was I 44 or something at the end of
00:45:05
it and you know it's people say what what did you did you try going to Hollywood well yeah except I wasn't 20
00:45:13
you know what I mean it's I went over there I got offered some roles in things
00:45:19
and some directing opportunities but there were all things like Sheena Queen of the Jungle and stuff and I just went
00:45:25
I don't want this also I had kids and I would still have to be slepping around
00:45:30
La and I had this whole career back here so I just went you know what I'm going
00:45:34
to do what I really want to do and that's what I did I just came back and set myself and now America comes here I
00:45:41
mean I'm directing Spartacus and I've done all these big American shows and
00:45:45
you know so living my best life really what an opportunity it's it's like
00:45:51
winning lot on a way is and I will always be grateful to Rob Tapper who believed in me and when I said when I
00:45:56
looked around went I reckon I could direct these you know I said can I direct one he said sure and then gave me
00:46:02
the hardest most computer generated effects heavy episode that we'd had so far so I had to
00:46:11
learn like it was a learning wasn't even a curve it was straight up and it was
00:46:16
just in the deep end but I made a good fist of it you know and uh and he was remarkable he um he had me play a
00:46:24
pantomime Dame in this American TV show The Widow twanky which is based on my mom cuz someone had seen me do the show
00:46:32
oh you got to put that in I said well I don't know that Americans are going to
00:46:36
go for a woman that talks like this you know like from Coronation Street but they loved it and so he gave me that
00:46:42
opportunity you know and um another producer who worked on the show Eric grinderman who's become a dear friend
00:46:48
and um we God Parents to each other's kids he also just gave me so many opportunities just backed me you know
00:46:56
with any Americans are great like that they give you they go here you go and if you don't make it well you don't make it
00:47:03
but you get a chance on your Merit at least these these guys were so I will always be grateful for them and
00:47:09
Rob I think single-handedly almost changed the way people View New Zealand because they he decided to move
00:47:18
basically a Hollywood style Studio here and build it here and yes in those days the American I think it was 42 to the
00:47:27
dollar in favor of the Americans so they had Gaz Doles of money but it meant that
00:47:33
all the crews had to step up all the locals the stunt industry suddenly had to come really up into the light the
00:47:40
stunties that started on Hercules and Zena I'm working with them now on Spartacus they've been all around the
00:47:46
world El poppleton these guys they've become world you know renowned at their
00:47:52
jobs all because of that and it really kicked it off all the um the way the studios are now being built CU we used
00:48:00
the old cold stores out at in West ockland which have now been completely rebuilt as Studios so you know a lot
00:48:07
went on from those shows and now this year and next year still there are Zena conventions Jennifer and I turn up I
00:48:17
wasn't even in Zena I mean I was I made a few guest appearances I directed a
00:48:21
whole lot of them Jennifer was in Zena twice we still turn up it's hilarious
00:48:27
we have fans who are now sadly some of them are dying cuz they're so old you
00:48:31
know and then we got all these new fans you know 20 year olds who have discovered it online you know it's quite
00:48:38
extraordinary just one of those just that sort of genre right that it's got like a massive cold I think with Zena
00:48:43
especially it's the two women are they gay or are they not but they've become
00:48:48
icons you know they really are icons female power all the rest of it you know that was and they all always played on
00:48:54
that that was because also it worked for men to because it was women in leather kicking us I mean there's a whole it's a
00:49:00
complex thing that was going on you yeah but it's the show that last I mean Hercules I think got pretty good in in
00:49:08
its later Seasons it started to get very strange and wonderful where uh Kevin got
00:49:13
really sick at one point had an aneurysm there was no Hercules so we had to think
00:49:17
of ways to do shows without him in it and one of the ways was that um there was a crisis in the writer's room
00:49:25
because Kevin SOS got gone missing so suddenly we are playing the modern writers of the show that we're in which
00:49:32
is said in ancient Greece prehistoric gree um and sending up lampooning the very writers of the show and in that
00:49:40
particular show these writers us are thinking of crazy ideas which we thought of and then did like one show where
00:49:48
Hercules has turned into a piglet so we called it porcul oh my God so there's a
00:49:52
whole episode like that so it got very like a spoof it did it got incredibly meta really really meta and I think
00:50:00
quite groundbreaking but there we go um but then it just you know um the old two
00:50:05
guys buddy thing I think just naturally wears it wears itself out also when I was in America that first time at the
00:50:14
big party of the launch and this writer hey Michael how are you so uh Hey I just
00:50:19
want to say a bit of advice um you know this show is going to do well but um when you get a script the calls for you
00:50:25
to play your own evil twin start looking for more work because that's when the
00:50:30
Riders are running out of ideas right yeah but the thing is I I played my unal twin about three times I died about four
00:50:38
times in that show and came back you know so we did actually eat it out for quite a l oh it's fantastic although
00:50:46
there's one thing I want to want to look back to you mentioned um Kevin Soo and a
00:50:49
brain aneurism was it a brain aneurysm or was that when you um got him with the got him with the
00:50:54
sword you can you believe they gave us metal bloody swords I cannot believe they did that for the first Nine
00:51:00
episodes well they probably thought oh Michael's Michael's a safe bet he's a
00:51:03
fencing Champion yeah yeah yeah yeah I've seen the shot what happened was I'm
00:51:08
doing a reverse horizontal slice and he's ducking I didn't go quite high
00:51:13
enough and he didn't duck quite low enough and I gave him a cut that got him
00:51:16
nine stitches I think surface wound give surface need need a can of hardened the
00:51:23
[ __ ] up that's what he needed but anyway look that that that was but the the but
00:51:28
he did have an aneurysm and that was an amazing time you know because he got um he got he had a stiff arm he got a
00:51:35
massage it dislodged the blood clot it went into his brain and he had a genuine aneurysm and it nearly killed him and I
00:51:41
remember visiting him in um LA and there's this big guy six foot something broad shoulders you know
00:51:49
really muscular guy um and he was sitting in a dark room and had no energy and it was very arresting and we made
00:51:58
these episodes without him and then he came back slowly building up his health slowly slowly slowly and then when he
00:52:05
came back on set on the first day he was only allowed on set for one hour and he
00:52:10
would come on and we all had to be quiet and everything had to be because it was
00:52:15
a delicate thing yeah and he came on and I remember he was in a suit um because Kevin SBO had come back to the studio
00:52:23
you know what I mean and he just looked small in the suit this big man and I remember choking
00:52:30
up I got such tears because all he had to do was walk on sit and go I'm back
00:52:36
you know that thing that you Americans do hey I'm back so we did that and and
00:52:41
then there was a pause and we cut and then the first day said welcome back kin like this and it was the most moving
00:52:48
moving moment and you know while we're on the subject of Kevin I have to say it
00:52:52
is eternally sad to me that he's become a right-wing Trump voting conspiracy
00:52:58
he's just a complete he turned into that yeah well you guys um I I suppose a lot
00:53:02
of the you know cuz you were you were very tight together so I suppose you had like a friendship at the time but is it
00:53:07
transactional like he moves on with it was a little bit transactional we we did get on really well we really generated
00:53:13
energy on the set and we made a lot of funny gags that we you know and we did all of that and we didn't care about
00:53:18
upstaging each other all of that was very healthy and I never really had a social life with Kevin he wasn't a um he
00:53:26
well his favorite sport was golf which is like oh my God so um you know so that was one thing and I don't mean to put
00:53:33
down actually I do golf come on I mean you know anyway yeah you've never been a
00:53:39
golf car no what is it a pleasant walk spoil I remember having a conversation once with the crew was standing around
00:53:46
and Kevin I said you know Kevin I think it'd be great if maybe um maybe golf
00:53:51
would be better if they could maybe make it more interesting and he went okay Michael how would they do that and and I
00:53:56
said well what if they for example what if what if the ball was bigger um and the hole was bigger and what if you had
00:54:03
some people trying to stop you getting the ball into the hole and maybe you could have some people with you trying
00:54:09
to get the maybe there's another hole down the other end and all the crew are
00:54:13
laughing and Kevin's still there going that wouldn't be golf Michael and he's
00:54:18
like like no IR no there was no irony complely yeah but um anyway so yeah so we never had that friendship uh but yeah
00:54:28
we did keep up quite a while afterwards we emailed regularly and um I did some work with him in in uh uh Vancouver in a
00:54:38
show that he was doing but when we got to the lockdown and he started sending me all the stuff about jinda that was
00:54:45
all from qanon and all that and I just went I emailed him I said Kevin we're
00:54:49
going to have to disagree agree to disagree or our friendship such as it is won't survive and that's the last I've
00:54:56
heard really yeah well there was um like a a comment he made last week about carel so at that point even if you're
00:55:02
friends you have to Hom a Simpson back into the oh yeah yeah and Lucy's got it
00:55:06
really in for him you know she's like no she's very outspoken yeah I mean he has
00:55:11
dug himself rather a rather a big hole and of course it doesn't sound very good
00:55:17
when you're complaining that you don't get work because you're um conservative
00:55:22
or Christian that's not a good look I don't think yeah but you know um some other
00:55:28
names from from that time uh there may be stories may not be Ryan Gosling you have anything to do with Ry not really
00:55:33
Ryan was young Hercules wasn't he I think I met him um yeah a couple of times cuz um we were there was who was
00:55:41
playing there was young who was R goling and then young eolis was played by oh tip of my tongue I'm having a senior
00:55:48
moment here uh it'll come to me um and uh I was playing a some sort of street
00:55:54
vendor it was one of those funny moments hey you look familiar cuz we played you
00:55:58
know the roles um and I met him a couple of times but no it was a that was a whole other world they had their own
00:56:04
world young Hercules and um that was different to us yeah it's funny someone
00:56:09
I suppose there's no way of knowing that someone's going to go on to yeah maybe
00:56:13
there there's occasions but for the most part there's no way of thinking this
00:56:16
person's going to be one of the biggest stars in the you would never know you
00:56:19
would never have known I mean it was just he was good though was good on what he did of course and I you know um who
00:56:25
else was there oh Kevin Smith of course the great oh yeah the late Kevin Smith yeah yeah yeah he was fantastic yeah he
00:56:31
he died must been like 20 years ago he fell off like a lighting rig or something no he was um he was doing a
00:56:36
movie in China um on a set um and he was he the thing about Kevin was he was everything he was gorgeous to look at
00:56:45
had a physique of adonus a beautiful tener voice like the most gorgeous voice you've ever heard
00:56:53
and could really act as like God I was sick of him but but um no no he was he was awesome a great friend yeah and he
00:57:00
went and he just signed up to do a movie with Bruce Willis at the time so he was
00:57:04
going to finish his movie in China then go to Hawaii his family were going to meet him in Hawaii all being looked
00:57:09
after by the movie and make this movie would have been his big break but um and he they they' wrapped him early on the
00:57:15
movie he went to look at another set to and he started climbing around on this I
00:57:22
think it must have been some sort of medieval Chinese set or something like that but built for small Chinese people
00:57:27
not for him and he fell through a set and bashed his head and that's it that
00:57:32
was it on the way down he bashed his head and yeah and he left us and that was um that was a real loss that's the
00:57:38
only really the only time I felt anything that keenly for um someone in the World At Large not a family member
00:57:47
that has gone I just we couldn't believe it and to this day there are moments
00:57:52
where I'll be looking at a play thinking we're going to cast this who we going to
00:57:56
and you go oh my God Kevin would have been good at this oh where's Kevin you
00:58:01
know yeah so sad isn't it it was sad so sad yeah yeah sad sad in many ways like
00:58:07
you know husband and her father but also never got to sort of realize his potential as well yeah no he didn't he
00:58:11
just yeah he was a silly boy in some ways your wife Jennifer um she works she doesn't work as an intimacy coach as
00:58:20
well yeah what what what does what does that mean exactly like P tell you what the practice is [ __ ] exhausting
00:58:26
[Laughter] all right I'll help you again oh God it's not the mirror on the stick again
00:58:36
it's oh no okay fine I'll help I'll jump off the Wardrobe no um we we yes she has look
00:58:45
this is an interesting story I hope it's interesting back in the first iteration
00:58:49
of Spartacus which is around 200 going to say 2008 to 12 somewhere around there we were doing Sparticus and it had all
00:58:57
these really fullon sex end in IT the rule for that again Rob ta it he said to me I came into to direct it and he said
00:59:05
sir I got one I'm here's what I'm going to say when you think the camera should
00:59:10
stop looking you make it look and I like okay so I did that and my rule about the
00:59:17
sex stuff was always to sit down with people no matter how uncomfortable it was you just talk
00:59:23
about it like its action and you make it list of the shots and I would be I'd say
00:59:28
to especially the women who are usually more vulnerable in those situations I'd
00:59:32
say right in this shot we're going to see your bum we're going to see your
00:59:36
left breast we itemize it and then I would make a list of all those shots and I'd show them the list I say now this is
00:59:43
good and we've been through it it'll look like there right now we'll sign it
00:59:47
I'll sign it you sign it get your agent to sign it if you like I'm committing to
00:59:53
shooting only what we've agreed on and that was that so shoot shooting not showing in the final edit that's that's
01:00:02
all you intend to sh well the only yeah and I said it if by any if by any mistake you get up and we happen to
01:00:08
catch a bit more of whatever I'll I'll show you that and say that's going to be
01:00:14
cut you know we've agreed and that way we don't have any disputes on that level
01:00:20
now having a closed set yes and looking after especially young women who are you
01:00:26
know being you know raped or whatever it is is a trick and we didn't have any of
01:00:32
that in my day you just went the first time I ever kissed any woman a woman on stage all I could no one told me I just
01:00:39
went all right Michael you're a grown-up it's not real keep your lips closed and
01:00:44
fake it and that's what we did you just I had an experience in America making a
01:00:48
film where I had to sit in a g string with a really gorgeous sexy young model straddling me and we had this dialogue
01:00:57
but we couldn't it was such a pokey thing we couldn't move while they moved
01:01:02
the camera and I just thought well what do I do here you know and no one's told
01:01:06
there's been no instruction about safety there's nothing between us no pads or
01:01:11
anything like that so I just asked her about her family and spent the time doing that but
01:01:17
my point is so we started that's how it started and then a woman in um in England eer eer can't remember her
01:01:26
second name she heard about us doing this cuz I was giving talks to act Actors Equity saying just get it in
01:01:32
writing you know I know there are times when auditions where someone's being
01:01:37
asked to take their top off and it's not reasonable at all should not happen none
01:01:41
of that should happen there should be no surprises but get it in writing and then
01:01:45
you won't be surprised so I was always but ITA uh she was very clear that there
01:01:50
needed to be some work done so she and Jennifer started a dialogue and that's
01:01:55
when a code of practice began to evolve about intimacy coordination just like stunt coordination where are your safe
01:02:03
areas what are the what's safe what isn't um what are you prepared to show
01:02:09
how can we help you feel comfortable in a situation do you need something to protect your your private parts while
01:02:17
you're sitting on this person because nobody's going to see it you know all of
01:02:20
that stuff to to make everything safe and fillable and believe me from acting perspective because I've I've done a I
01:02:29
did a um I did Princess of chaos where I played um Len Brown the mayor and had to
01:02:34
do the sex scene that you know he was caught oh with fwang and the na I had to do that scene and we had an end ofac
01:02:42
coordination it wasn't Jennifer because I didn't think that was politically
01:02:45
correct it was um Tandy right and so it was really easy um can I touch you below
01:02:51
the knee yep can I touch you above the knee here yep there no no okay there's
01:02:57
where there's where the limit is and I had to be able to cuz he he kissed up
01:03:02
her leg and then it turned into into sex and and so I said well I can kiss you here yeah and so I had permission so I
01:03:09
could invest those kisses with the full bloody nine yards of acting lust you know without fear of overstepping the
01:03:17
mark Or Without Fear of it was incredibly freeing and from a directing point of view I don't have to sit there
01:03:23
and talk to women about their bits you don't and it's it can be quite tricky
01:03:28
you know I can I can say I want this and we would do it together in the room with
01:03:32
the coordinator and the actors and what's safe and what's the shot going to
01:03:35
be we do all that it's fantastic yeah are those scenes um just the most awkward thing in the world well not
01:03:42
anymore they they used to be but not anymore and they are they are awkward but after a while it's just so [ __ ]
01:03:48
boring honestly you're sitting around forever and the camera's got to move and
01:03:52
it's really you know it's Ted it's kind of mundane it's not what people think
01:03:57
it's the same with big extended action scenes they're not like that they take
01:04:02
time action is pieces you you shoot individual yeah there might be a bit of a fight but if you're going to shoot a
01:04:08
closeup of the Cup being smashed by a sword that's going to take you half an
01:04:13
hour to set up anyway so it's not like it's all happening in real time so yeah
01:04:16
it all gets a bit mundane you know but then again what you see in that frame is always exciting yeah yeah no that's true
01:04:25
um what about the awards and accolades you you and Jennifer have got plenty U granted you don't have a kiwi Bank New
01:04:30
Zealander of the year she's the winner she's Jennifer award Leeland but you
01:04:34
both um you both got um what are the Queens honors birthdays yeah um I've got
01:04:39
an onz well we both got an ozm I got mine first um she got her and then she got promoted up to the next one so now
01:04:47
I've got to do the ducking and curtsying yeah um how do you how do you feel about
01:04:51
them do they sit comfortably with you yeah I was really you know what's amazing about it is when you get
01:04:57
it it's one of those times where it's only about people appreciating you for
01:05:04
no other reason like there's no you're not proving anything you're not trying
01:05:09
to get a job you're not there's nothing like that it's just well done and I
01:05:14
think I certainly for me and I think for a lot of men I can say a lot of men just
01:05:20
want to be a good boy you know and that's that's really something and the
01:05:24
same with the um I got an Arts laurate as well and he was an Arts laurate award and on the night of that it's just about
01:05:32
hey you did really well and hear in your in appreciation it's a very heartwarming
01:05:38
thing and um yeah I I totally yeah I I I really enjoyed having both of those yeah
01:05:45
yeah it's it's quite remarkable really that you've you've you've both got them
01:05:48
for your own your own merits yeah and Jennifer's um the New Zealand of the Year came with a bit more responsibility
01:05:56
you know she was prepared for that there's a lot of stuff you know how so what do you mean well I mean I think she
01:06:01
had to be very clear about her involvement with ter Mai and and how um she couldn't have the lived experience
01:06:09
of Mai wah but she you know loves the culture and and really wanted to make inroads into understanding that and
01:06:18
having it as part of her life that was a big issue because you know some people weren't happy about about that but she
01:06:25
had to make her because remember um in public positions she's also the president of Actors Equity and I don't
01:06:33
want to go into it too much but going back to the whole Hobbit catastrophe back in the early 2000s Jennifer as the
01:06:39
public one of the public faces of that dispute was I mean it was a terrible time like lots of insults and people
01:06:48
said terrible things about Jennifer and a whole bunch of actors you know because
01:06:53
we were making a noise about wanting a realistic place in the in the world um so she
01:06:58
didn't want to face that again and and also New Zealand of the year you know
01:07:02
speaking engagements all of the things that come from that I've over the years
01:07:08
removed myself from that sort of stuff I always thought actors I'm an actor I
01:07:13
should be able to do public speaking I should be able to debate I should be able to host shows or have
01:07:19
interviews and I was doing all of that and finding that I was getting so ner nervous and and twisted up about them
01:07:29
that I thought one day I don't want to do this to myself anymore I would get
01:07:33
through them possibly but be miserable inside you know just get nervous I'm not
01:07:38
good at at at um I'm not good at being in front of people in that sort of way well and so
01:07:46
you're more comfortable on stage being someone else than than actually being
01:07:49
yeah on stage I'll do anything I I don't if it's if it's Justified if it's for
01:07:53
the part I don't care I I'll show my bum could you could you do the public
01:07:56
speaking pretend it's a role like Michael this is your character you playing a 66y old yeah I that's a good
01:08:03
thought but I just don't know no I just it's always too it's like teaching too I
01:08:08
can't really do that anymore because I just take it's too it's too hard
01:08:14
personally for me and also a lot of teaching I don't I don't sort of believe a lot of
01:08:20
acting teaching much I I kind of I'm a more practically oriented person quite
01:08:25
cynical about it do do you speak um fluent too as well no I don't it's not
01:08:30
my interest I I um my interest I've done classical Greek which is useless it's not useless but I'm I'm
01:08:39
more i' that's just me and I I I don't I don't want to start feeling you know
01:08:44
guilty because I don't um speak it the way Jennifer speaks it um because and I
01:08:50
did go through that phase but actually it's it's just not me my I'm interested
01:08:54
in ancient history I'm interested in Shakespeare and philosophy and all of those things and I'm not saying you
01:09:02
can't be interested in those and not to Mar of course you could do it all but
01:09:06
I've only got so much time in my life and so that's that's my honest reaction
01:09:09
to it so and speaking of um the time in your life how how do you feel about aging you're 66 now you're you're a
01:09:16
you're a bloody old age pensioner a gold card holder I've got my gold card I get
01:09:19
three trips to away you're looking you're looking great and um and mentally
01:09:22
you're very very sharp how how are you feeling about the whole I've had I've
01:09:26
had a knee replacement um because my body and again I don't know if people even remember these but we did some
01:09:33
shows in the past I did physical theater like really threw myself around I was as
01:09:39
fit as a buck rat and weight training and just big sword fights with sprung steel swords and concrete floors stair
01:09:48
Falls all of that so my body's taken a hiding over the years and that's coming
01:09:53
home to roost I realize now so yep new left knee um elbow had to be reconstructed for years of breakfalls um
01:10:02
cuz you know when you're doing a stage fight at the end of a Shakespeare where
01:10:06
you've got to World of Sword around and get the [ __ ] thing done you know you
01:10:09
can't stop and have mattresses put down like the stunt guys do in movies there's
01:10:13
no stopping there's no there it's all it is is just full on for whatever that
01:10:18
fight is and I was really fit and we used to make them big these fights you know um and uh anyway so I've realized
01:10:26
that my body is it's like the engine's running really well but couple of the
01:10:31
the panel beatings a bit tricky so I've had that done and my foot my a broken
01:10:37
bone thing fix it but you know it's just age and I did think um on my 60th that's when I did
01:10:46
commit myself to doing as many plays a year as I can for the rest of my life because that is my first love and and
01:10:54
and the thing that I most love is being on stage the the act of being on stage and taking an audience
01:11:03
through that in some ways it's a bit like directing it's a more limited stage
01:11:07
directing I'm quite good at the TV directing I'm I'm quite good at theater
01:11:11
directing but but um in a way I'm acting those parts in some ways I don't know
01:11:18
it's just sort of comes to me but but aging it's just aging you what do you
01:11:22
what do you love about the being on stage to the matches like is is is it the Applause at the end of the night
01:11:26
from doing your job well or well that is obviously a reward but no it's it's um
01:11:32
it's just the feeling of communication it's something to do with that um the
01:11:38
there's a power there there's a power there I mean and it's a responsibility and I I say this all the
01:11:44
time that that sort of acting is thousands of years old and comes from you know you're taking a bunch of
01:11:51
separate minds and they're focusing into one are area that's pretty rich you know
01:11:57
all of our individual existences sort of fused together in a weird way in this one moment and they're all focused and
01:12:04
where are they focused they're focused on you and you're focused on you know
01:12:08
it's a really it's something you should not take for granted and not unell it
01:12:14
even even tits and bums comedy you know oops there go my naughty bits even those
01:12:18
sorts of fces are absolutely crucial to The Human Condition happy face sad face it's just one face it does all of it and
01:12:26
it's really important that we hit that properly you and and that you know that
01:12:30
will anything less just cheapens the experience and the experience is I'm going
01:12:37
to I think it's quite a Holy Experience but I want to qualify it I'm not a I'm a
01:12:43
rationalist I'm an atheist it's not that it's the human Spirit the most human
01:12:48
thing is coming together and focusing you just look at a concert look at a rugby match look at anything like that
01:12:54
that's what these things all of our separate consciousnesses come into focus and
01:13:00
those things become a richer moment for it because not to get too lofty I said this to some high school students not
01:13:07
long ago because at the end of the day only you are going to do your dying for you no one else is going to do that for
01:13:13
you and so these rich moments where you fully are cognizant of the power of all of humanity more that's what it is and
01:13:23
I'm privileged and lucky enough to be someone that can be in one of those conduit moments do you
01:13:31
know what I mean I know that's that's I really believe that it's not just
01:13:35
intellectual waffle it's very real for me oh I can tell you you're so passionate about it yeah you really are
01:13:41
right the um yeah there's so much enthusiasm and you think I you yeah I believe you when you say you want to
01:13:48
keep doing it for as long as you can and often you know even something you love when you've been doing it for a long
01:13:52
time the interest in it can sort of wne somewhat but I get the feeling with your
01:13:55
at hasn't at all not remotely and and you know if you look at specifically something like Shakespeare look I'm too
01:14:01
old now but I could easily play Hamlet again and still not get to the bottom of it and still be doing different things
01:14:07
same with MC Beth all of these things it's not uh stepen fry said something which I took issue with many years ago
01:14:14
he's probably forgotten it not that he's a friend of mine but he would did a
01:14:17
stage show and he'd been doing a lot of films and he did a stage show and he
01:14:21
said offand one comment he said oh I got back on stage I couldn't wait for the season to endend
01:14:27
doing the same thing every night and I went well look in my mind if you're doing the same thing every night you're
01:14:33
in the wrong business that's not what you do yes it's the same role it's
01:14:38
different every single night it's Unique I said this to these kids after King Leo
01:14:44
one time this students came to see it and I said you've seen this show but you've only you'll never see this again
01:14:50
even if you come to this production again you'll never see what you saw tonight again again cuz it's gone it's
01:14:57
gone so that that is the essence of it and again it comes back to Shakespeare he talks about um in the Tempest he
01:15:05
talks about um these are actors are all gone and they will leave um all the things
01:15:13
they've had the cloud top Towers the great Globe itself and he means the globe of the world and the Globe Theater
01:15:21
you know they shall um disappear um uh and like this insubstantial pageant faded leave not a rack behind this is
01:15:32
like life it's an insubstantial pageant and the rack he's talking about is a
01:15:38
wardrobe rack so you go in like you do it with films all the time we go into a location
01:15:44
everything's happening we leave you can't tell we've been there and I find
01:15:48
that philosophically potent and theater Echoes life theater Echoes the world I mean it's no accident it was called The
01:15:56
Globe because you know it's it's it's everything you know it's everything in
01:16:02
the human condition and in fact I don't know be boring about Shakespeare but
01:16:06
Hamlet has an amazing line where he realizes the ghost of his dead father tells him that his uncle killed him you
01:16:14
know that that his dad's the brother killed the brother and it's devastating
01:16:18
right at the beginning of the play sort of second or third scene in Hamlet's
01:16:21
absolutely devasta almost goes mad by it but man manages to hang hang on and the
01:16:27
ghost then hears the rooster crow and says I must leave ad du ad du remember me Hamlet goes remember Thee I thou poor
01:16:36
ghost and clutches his head while memory holds a seat in this distracted Globe remember thee yay from this moment and I
01:16:45
say to these students what's a distracted globe and they go oh it's the theater it's it's this brain it's the
01:16:50
theater while memory it's the brain it's it's it's Shakespeare going it's here
01:16:55
it's it's the globe of the world and it's the Globe Theater and what do
01:16:59
actors need to learn lines memory so that line also means as long as actors remember these lines I will remember you
01:17:08
pretty profound don't you reckon well my my relationship with shakes is probably similar to your
01:17:14
relationship with golf yeah okay but you did you did have me leaning forward in there like there you go you you got
01:17:21
you're you're just so passionate about it aren't you well I am passionate about
01:17:24
it and yeah I don't I think passion is crucial you have to be passionate or and
01:17:30
and look I've been again I don't believe in fate particularly but I'm so lucky to
01:17:36
have to be here doing this this is you know so I'm never going to turn in a I'm
01:17:43
never going to phone it in yeah I can't see you slowing down either no well unless you know they cut
01:17:49
my legs off or something but you know no I'm I'm I'm I'm pretty feel pretty fit
01:17:54
yeah and and and um yeah as I say I it's keeping your brain going you know the
01:18:00
brain is the thing the you know the body feeds the brain the brain is the thing you know and that's that's um I think if
01:18:09
I yeah I mean I'm I'm of the opinion if I'm if if it's if my brain starts going
01:18:15
and if I know it then give me as many drugs as you can and send me on my way what about just an earpiece yeah an
01:18:20
earpiece can you imagine it oh my God actors with earpiece says getting told their lines yeah yeah no I do know a lot
01:18:28
of a lot of a lot of um actors my age especially men I know they tend to avoid Theater now because they're
01:18:38
scared of forgetting the lines and that is a pressure but um for me I'm the opposite I'm going to bring it on until
01:18:47
I until I really can't do it anymore but at the moment so these lines that we're
01:18:51
learning at the moment for um um for in other words they're just going in like
01:18:56
that you know but then muscle memory it's muscle memory it is it's muscle
01:19:01
memory definitely that there is a there is a a way of getting used to things and
01:19:06
the the TV thing you know where you're learning just I mean on Hercules I just
01:19:10
look at the scene in the morning and learn it in the makeup chair you know learn all the yeah and and I see people
01:19:15
you know it's it's that's how you need to do it because there are so many lines
01:19:19
over the course of the year you're never going to retain they go into this shallow little Basin in your brain and
01:19:25
they go off again you know hey this has been so much fun been really nice to connect
01:19:31
good great great feel like I've rattled on quite a bit but oh no no no it's been
01:19:36
no it's been great I could sit here listening to these Yar all day when you flip into into character it's like oh
01:19:41
this this guy can really act oh well yeah yeah it's quite a lot more but you
01:19:45
know hey this has been brilliant just before we go um my show sponsors uh the generate kiwi saers scheme and they'
01:19:51
challenged me to give $20,000 in total to charity by spreading the word about the importance of kiwi saer advice and
01:19:57
planning for the future so I've got a a few questions here and if you can answer
01:20:01
them generate will donate $500 to a charity of your choice okay great what would that be or do you want to answer
01:20:06
at the end or oh gosh um is there a charity that's dear to you or well I think it would be appropriate to
01:20:13
whatever is the Alzheimer's or dementia charity I think that's appropriate that
01:20:16
we do that seeing as that's what I'm you know talking about as well and also
01:20:20
we're getting into this show which is you know I don't know any anyone that I
01:20:26
know of my age who hasn't got someone a family member or a friend who was having
01:20:31
a problem with it you know so um and I know that here's the thing my my mentor
01:20:37
Raymond Hawthorne who was a Titan of the theater back in the day you know an absolute muscular really W and he and
01:20:46
taught me everything I know he's in a facility now and um he has he remembers
01:20:52
me and all the past but he doesn't remember the last 10 minutes he can't
01:20:57
recall anything recently you watch this and you know it's heartbreaking but he's
01:21:01
lucky he's in a good place but yeah so let's do that I think that's that's a
01:21:04
great charity okay Michael HST are you a spender or a saver I'm a bit of both I know when to
01:21:12
spend it but I know when to save my wife's a saver can I just say that that's good
01:21:19
long there one s a relationship yeah yeah yeah which means I'm a cautious spender because I have to I have to ask
01:21:25
the control tower first know what I mean what what has been your biggest money mistake there must have been some good
01:21:30
ones during the Hercules there's one mistake which I I um I I started a little company uh with a friend who's
01:21:39
who's last no longer a friend because he he he just took all the money that was a big mistake I think
01:21:47
I lost I don't know couple hundred, or something [ __ ] yeah it just just it just
01:21:52
became something that I kept I was the one that had the money and it just became something that sort of generated
01:21:57
itself and after a while I really I had to just cut all ties yeah so that was my
01:22:03
biggest uh mistake actual proper mistake I think um I think um I have bought a few unfortunate pairs of trousers in the
01:22:12
time but that was the big one yeah um who do you who do you talk to when you have questions about money oh we've got
01:22:19
um we've got a company we've got um uh a um some people look after I like a money
01:22:25
manager advisor funds manager yeah because we have um some Investments and um property on my hickey and and that
01:22:34
and it's it's always good to and they're great with the tax because the tax
01:22:38
situation is you know we both Jen I both like to we don't like to owe anything we
01:22:45
just like to be very clean so you know that's what we do yeah uh what's something fun you can see yourself doing
01:22:50
in retirement I know the answer to this what's retir sort of doing it already um
01:22:57
actually you know there is a bit of that I would there is some traveling I I would like to do that's me there is some
01:23:03
uh I've done quite a bit of traveling but not not in a sort of uh I've done it
01:23:07
with work usually or feeling I'm on a bit of a budget I would love to there's
01:23:12
some places I want to see I want to go to Finland I want to do these things so there are some specific things like that
01:23:18
and they are to do with travel I think exotic places if you could pick anywhere to retire in New Zealand where would it
01:23:23
be in why um well I think it's going to be in our apartment up on great North Road I'm
01:23:31
I'm sorry to say but uh I I I really love Orland I've been here since 1979 I've only ever lived in the center
01:23:39
of it so um do you know that's a hard one cuz I just don't even think about
01:23:45
going into any retirement place or anything like that just going to live my life here until it stops I guess and
01:23:53
what do you love most about about being a kiwi um I think there's a I like the
01:24:08
directness and the downto Earth thing that goes on I sort of alluded to it before with that coming from a a
01:24:15
convention I just there's a there's a sort of dry we shareed a little bit with
01:24:20
the Aussies there's a sort of dry kind of tacet something it's not I don't I don't
01:24:28
like the T poppy syndrome it's not that it's something it's just really we all know
01:24:36
when someone's being a dick yeah you know what I mean we're good at smelling
01:24:39
[ __ ] yeah that's right and you just can see this thing where you just you know I see it a little bit sometimes
01:24:46
when I'm doing TV shows you know won't name any names or anything but you'll
01:24:49
see an actor being and you know I'm sitting there as a director and then I'll turn I'll look at some of the crew
01:24:54
and you'll see them going you know just and you just go yeah yeah but you know
01:25:00
yeah I think that's I agree you can do it with a look like this go for real yeah yeah yeah I I I really yeah I like
01:25:07
that there's a kind of sense of humor about life that I think that may become
01:25:11
more and more difficult As the World Turns I don't know that's a whole other
01:25:15
discussion hey well thanks for answering those yeah $500 $500 to um an Alzheimer's or demena charity yeah yeah
01:25:23
that's that New Zealand Alzheimer's Foundation I think it'll be you know
01:25:26
we'll look it up yeah hey um thanks so much for your time today is this is this
01:25:30
your first sort of long form yeah podcast Deep dive into your life yeah oh it's been an on mate thank you very much
01:25:36
great I've really enjoyed it yeah likewise got a bit of everything in there you're going to get in trouble for
01:25:42
the intimacy stuff I no I'm what is she going to do