00:00:00
You bumped into him on a practice range in 2019 and it was a little frosty. I knew straight away that it just wasn't
00:00:06
the same. One thing about that tournament that most people don't know is Did Tiger make a habit of doing that?
00:00:16
Like if they finish that's a nauseating amount of pressure. That's the way it is. He was
00:00:24
bitter to Stevie. Thank you for your friendship. Love always. Tiger Woods. Yeah, I didn't see that coming. It's
00:00:33
weird. You sort of dress him down and give them a piece of your mind. When you have a
00:00:38
conversation like that, you've got a number of things that you want to address. He needs to be put in his place
00:00:42
and I did it. Were you [ __ ] yourself? You know, I tell it like it is. As a husband and as a father, I
00:00:48
probably faltered there for a little bit. The first thing that the surgeon told me,
00:00:57
um, hit a [ __ ] shot. You can't blame me for hitting a [ __ ] shot. [Music]
00:01:06
You would actually think that I'd have some knowledge of what was going on. Happy to be able to sit here and
00:01:14
share my story with you. Kiwis love a thirst. Like Finn, we're making [Music]
00:01:26
waves. Generate switch online today. Steve Williams, welcome back to my podcast. Yeah. Um, pretty good to be
00:01:41
here for the second time, Don. Yeah. Oh, mate, this is um this is really cool. So, um, you've got a a new book coming
00:01:47
out called Together We Roar, and I'm one of the first people in the world that's
00:01:51
been lucky enough to read it. It's like a uncorrected proof copy, not for sale.
00:01:56
Um, but you you reached out to me asking to come back on and I couldn't believe
00:01:59
it. I thought, "Fuck, this is epic." Yeah. Well, I mean, I've had that many
00:02:03
people tell me that they've listened to your podcast show when I was on it, so
00:02:06
you're a logical one to put their hand up and and and we we're promoting the
00:02:10
book, so good place to start. Yeah. the um the podcast that we did which um came
00:02:16
out at the beginning of 2024 um by far the biggest podcast I've done to date.
00:02:22
I've done almost like 200 episodes and that was the biggest by far. I think it's 400,000 views on YouTube or
00:02:26
something. Um and I suppose that says a lot about uh I don't know the respect
00:02:30
that New Zealanders have for you and also just the um the aura of yeah the whole Tiger Wood story I guess. Yeah. I
00:02:37
mean, look, Tigers, a once in a-lifetime, once in a generation sort of athlete. And people, you know, when he
00:02:45
was playing, they just couldn't get enough of Tiger Woods and that. And I think when he was playing, I think, you
00:02:50
know, a great deal of the people that got to see him play realized that he was a once in a generational athlete.
00:02:58
There'll probably be another never be another golfer like Tiger and possibly
00:03:02
another athlete that's dominated a sport so seriously like he has. So, uh, I was
00:03:07
very fortunate to be by his side, uh, in those golden years and part of it playing a role in it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh,
00:03:13
look, I mean, it's just, you know, when you look back and you've had a chance to
00:03:16
caddy for someone like him, I've c for a number of very, very good players, but
00:03:19
to have worked alongside arguably the greatest player, uh, and, you know, toe to toe and watched him compete is pretty
00:03:26
special. Yeah. Um, yeah, the players you that you're talking about, Greg Norman
00:03:30
from 82 to 89. Um, you love a long-term relationship, don't you? Greg Norman 82 to 89. Raymond Floyd um
00:03:38
89 to 999. Tiger from 99 to 2011 and then um Adam Scott uh 2011 to 2017 then uh 22 23. Yeah, they're your three three
00:03:50
key relationships. Yeah. home for um but yeah they're I've been fortunate that
00:03:55
each player I've K for have had a lengthy stint and in our business we sort of c sort of realize that it's you
00:04:01
know there's no you know you can't tell how long a relationship's going to last
00:04:05
but five years if you can car for someone for 5 years it's a pretty good stint I mean it's an intense job you
00:04:11
spend a lot of time with someone and a lot of times when players fall out of form you know that they're looking for
00:04:17
changes it could be the coach could be the caddy whatever but um it's it you
00:04:21
know, you don't go to Caddy for someone and think it's going to be a lifetime
00:04:25
job. And um the Augusta Masters in 2023 with Adam Scott, that's your that's your
00:04:31
final masters. Yeah, look, I mean, you never say never. It's a pretty special
00:04:36
place. And you know, if the right opportunity came along, perhaps I could go back there and carry, but like when
00:04:40
you step aside from something, you did it for as long as I have. Um and and it's, you know, the game evolves very
00:04:47
quickly. you know, I I haven't carried full-time since 2017. Had a couple of
00:04:51
stints here and there, but the game evolves and I mean, I think unless you're out there regularly, you might
00:04:56
maybe fall behind a little bit. The players use a lot of technology now. Uh I'm an old school caddy that caddies by
00:05:02
feel. And u for instance, you know, the players, they require the knowledge of you know how far up uphill a shot is,
00:05:11
how far downhill a shot is. They they have that information given to them and then in the yardage books that are
00:05:16
provided. That's the book that is provided that has all that kind of information in it. Uh I used to do that
00:05:21
all by feel. I just look at something and feel it. So, um yeah, I'm probably a
00:05:26
bit out of date now, but I'd have to, you know, get my thinking or change the
00:05:29
way I do things if I was to keep cing, but you know, I've done my time out there. Would you would you ever want to
00:05:34
go back to a Would you ever go back to Augusta wearing anything other than like white overalls? Like would you want to
00:05:40
be like behind one of the fences like wandering around from hole to hole? Yeah. No, look, I mean, I think that'd
00:05:46
be pretty difficult to go and uh watch a golf tournament when you've, you know,
00:05:50
you've been active in cadding for so many years. Um, no, I don't think I
00:05:54
could go and watch it, but u on the same sec on the other hand, I'm not that keen
00:05:58
to put those white boiler suits on either. And what's your what's your relationship like with um with golf now?
00:06:05
Like do do you do you follow it? Like when we're recording this, the New Zealand Open was on last weekend. Were
00:06:10
you there? Did you watch it? Yeah. No, I was c for Daniel Hillier last week. So,
00:06:13
I don't follow golf too much, but uh I I keep an eye out for Ryan Fox and and
00:06:18
Daniel Hillier. Um the two Kiwi players that I've, you know, come to know pretty
00:06:23
good. And uh but outside of that, no, I don't really follow it too much. I like
00:06:26
to keep tracks on how they're doing. Um you know, at the moment, they're our two
00:06:30
best players. And I've ci for Ryan, I've ci for Dan or Caddy from last week at
00:06:33
the Open. So, I keep an eye on those two guys. Full Swing on Netflix. Have you watched that? Do you watch that? No, I
00:06:39
haven't uh watched that. I'd sort of, you know, some of those programs are a
00:06:42
bit far-fetched, I think, sometimes. So, it seems that it seems like a drama to you rather than a like a documentary.
00:06:50
Yeah. Look, I mean, I I look at that as sort of a made for TV sort of thing, you
00:06:54
know? I don't like I watched the I watched one episode of the first one and I thought, well, that's a bit farfetched
00:06:59
for me. I know that's not exactly how things go on the tour, so I haven't
00:07:04
watched any further. What about the um your old mate with his uh TGL league? What what do you what do you think of
00:07:11
that? Uh I haven't watched any of that either. Um I mean anything you can do
00:07:14
that can broaden the wider audience for golf. I think it's great. So um you know
00:07:20
that that takes place on a Monday night or or a Tuesday night. So when there's
00:07:23
no other direct competition from any other golf tournaments on TV. So um and if you can get new people into the game,
00:07:29
new audience and that that's great. I think yeah, but I mean I haven't actually watched it, so I can't say
00:07:34
firsthand having watched it, but I know if you can have something that can bring
00:07:38
new people into the game and and just people get the opportunity to watch great players. I mean, I'm obviously not
00:07:44
playing on a golf course, but you know, there's a lot of people around the world
00:07:47
that play golf but don't go to a golf course. They just go to a driving range
00:07:50
and hit balls. They don't actually play golf. And, you know, you'll get a lot of
00:07:53
people watch that kind of thing and think, you know, let's get let's go to
00:07:56
the driving range, hit some balls, and let's get, you know, see if we can get a
00:07:58
feel for what's going on here. Yes. How Yeah. How would you explain that TGL
00:08:02
thing for someone that has no idea what we're talking about? It's sort of like
00:08:05
Well, it's like simulator, you know, you can do all sorts of things on a simulator. So, it's I guess you could
00:08:11
relate it's like simulator golf. You know, you're hitting off a mat um and
00:08:15
you're hitting into a screen and and you'll get all the details of how far
00:08:18
the ball's gone, where it's positioned that they bring up the holes like you're
00:08:21
playing playing a golf course and they have a real putting green there from what I'm told. I haven't watched it. I
00:08:26
can't actually, but my understanding is they have a proper putting green and
00:08:29
they can change that putting green. They can change the slope, the surf, you know, the different things to suit the
00:08:33
different holes that they're playing. Um, yeah. So, it's it's, you know, it's
00:08:38
a big new addition to the game. Uh, and something completely different. Be a great format for a caddy in his 60s. Not
00:08:45
much walking, right? Yeah. You could just stand there in your chair and have a beer and say, "I think it's this club
00:08:50
or Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I I uh mentioned on Instagram that you were coming in and someone had a um a comment
00:08:58
which I thought was brilliant. They they said um last year when I heard that Oasis was having a reunion, I bought
00:09:02
tickets straight away and I'm more excited about that than anything. But I think more exciting than an Oasis
00:09:07
reunion would be seeing Tiger and Steve have one more round together. Yeah. Well, Tiger's not playing much these
00:09:12
days. Last year he only uh competed sparsely and and did the major championship. So, um, yeah, that would
00:09:20
be, you know, it would be actually kind of fun, I guess, from my perspective if you were to step out there one more time
00:09:26
and just finish off knowing that you're finishing off. Um, when I when I stepped
00:09:29
away caring for Tiger when he was out injured, um, and then he came back, you know, you don't know when your last
00:09:35
tournament's going to be, but if you went out there and had a reunion, be kind of fun. But I guess that's probably
00:09:41
a bit of a pipe dream. That's what we thought about Oasis. Yeah. Well, that's
00:09:44
a good point. You never know. Um yeah, just before we get into it, something that I think is is worth a mention um
00:09:50
because we did talk about this in the last um episode where we caught up, but um I thought it's better getting this
00:09:56
early early on in um the Steve Williams Foundation um and your philanthropy work
00:10:00
because a lot of people may not know about this and I feel like it's worth running a highlighter through it. So,
00:10:04
um, yeah, in October 2008, yourself and your wife Kirsty made a $1 million donation to Starship, um, in particular
00:10:12
their oncology department there, which, um, [ __ ] it's phenomenal. Yeah. Look, I
00:10:18
mean that my wife got behind that project. She met with the CEO of the Starship Hospital. So, they were about
00:10:24
to commence the rebuild or the planning of the rebuild of the oncology unit and they need a founding donor to start off
00:10:30
the the fundraising. So, uh, we decided what a no greater place to put some money into. It's a fantastic facility
00:10:38
that needed upgrading. Uh, sadly, the rate of oncology in in our young people today is always ever increasing, which
00:10:45
is, you know, it's kind of sad. But look, if you go into a place like that, I've said this to so many people,
00:10:51
sometimes you get a little bit down and out on on different aspects of your life. And if you go into the Starship
00:10:56
Hospital or the Ronald McDonald House, particularly the oncology unit and spend a bit of time there, uh you get a deep
00:11:02
appreciation of how fortunate you are, uh to have good health and and good people around you. So, um but as far as
00:11:09
the Steve Williams Foundation go, um last year 2024, my wife and I shut that down. We've done it for 22 years
00:11:17
non-stop. Uh we've done it on our own, so it's a tremendous amount of fundraising. Um we're extremely proud of
00:11:23
what we've achieved. We've supported um not only the Starship Hospital and the
00:11:27
Ronald McDonald House extensively, but we've helped a lot of uh junior golfers
00:11:32
in the country and then most recently quite a few speedway drivers, uh youth speedway drivers. So, you can't do
00:11:38
something forever. Uh we feel like we've done as much as we can do and it's a lot
00:11:42
of work running a foundation. So, you know, we need to step we decided to step aside and concentrate on some other
00:11:48
aspects of our life. M well, thanks for doing it in the first place. Um, you know, it's not like you were doing it
00:11:54
for, you know, clout or kudos or the attention or publicity or anything like that. And, um, I've got no idea what
00:11:59
your financial situation is, but a million dollars is a lot for anyone, right? Yeah. Look, I mean, obviously,
00:12:04
I'm fortunate uh to being very successful in in a job that I love. I never stepped out to be a golf caddy to
00:12:09
make money. It was just something I loved. I love being outdoors. Loved the opportunity to caddy, loved working on
00:12:13
the golf tour, watching golf pros play, and got to caddy some great players. uh and fortunately you know got rewarded
00:12:20
very well for it but um like if people always ask me what's the single greatest
00:12:25
moment of your career you know and you know not many people would think the answer would be actually given that
00:12:30
million dollars to ship hospital and you know the the feedback that Kirsty and I
00:12:35
have had from that the amount of people that go into that unit and um since the rebuild uh and know how
00:12:43
much more spacious it is how much more better it is for their family and far now they have to spend time in there and
00:12:48
yeah, it's pretty special. My father-in-law actually he took on the job of rebuilding the kitchen there and
00:12:53
he got all the product and all the uh what they needed to do for nothing and he spent him and his colleagues um built
00:13:00
that out free of charge. So, it was a family project and yeah, we're super proud of that. And and that all started
00:13:06
with um a Christmas day trip to the Gizbborne Hospital in 2006 where you you and your wife went in and you were
00:13:12
handing out chocolates. Um see see this this stuff goes unnoticed, you know. So there there's no there's no cameras
00:13:18
there. You're not even on social media from what I can get at you. You [ __ ] at
00:13:21
responding to texts on your phone. So yeah, what were you doing at hospital on Christmas Day 2006? My wife is, you
00:13:28
know, she's got a big heart and she has some great ideas and that. Yeah. So I I
00:13:31
I was going to go to Gisbon um to race on Boxing Day. So you can't drive from
00:13:36
Aland to Gisbon and race on the same day. So we had to go on Christmas Day, which is not ideal. And um my wife said,
00:13:43
"Well, if you're going to do that, we're going to do something good." And um
00:13:46
prior to leaving, we went and got as many chocolates and boxes of chocolates as we could and we took them in there to
00:13:51
the children's ward at Kisman Hospital and just handed them all out. I mean,
00:13:54
nobody knew who we were or anything. We just went and asked the people we could hand out some chocolates and that and
00:13:59
that's what we did. And it's actually on that uh we were the following day after
00:14:03
Boxing Day we were racing in Napia and that's when my wife sort of put her thinking cap on and what can we do next
00:14:09
and that's how um she came up with the Starship Hospital um with the you know
00:14:16
they were looking to rebuild the oncology unit. So we got jumped on board, became the founding donors and
00:14:21
yeah I mean look it's a lot of money granted I get that but you couldn't ask
00:14:26
to give money to a better charity and to a more worthwhile cause in the starship
00:14:30
hospital and I always say to people like I said earlier you know just go in there
00:14:34
one day go to the reception there they have so many volunteers that'll be happy
00:14:37
to show you around what a marvelous facility is and and you know it it it is a very worthwhile cause when they're
00:14:43
looking for money that or the McDonald House if you're ever out there and they're looking for some Honey, that's
00:14:48
great causes to give it to. Yeah. Do you do you feel an immense sense of pride like when you talk about it now? Oh,
00:14:55
100%. Like if you go into the oncology unit now that the uh when you walk into the doors there, it bears our name. My
00:15:00
wife, our name is up on the on the door there above the door. And uh yeah, absolutely. It's a was a huge thing and
00:15:07
uh like I said, we're immensely proud of our association with two great charities. Yeah. Well, thanks for that.
00:15:14
Now, together we roar. Um yeah, this this podcast is going to come out around about the same time as the book. So um
00:15:21
who whose idea was it? Who was Evan Priest? Yeah. So Evan's a journalist, an
00:15:26
Australian journalist who I'm friends with. So during co um like a lot of people, Evan was not he he was a golf
00:15:33
journalist following the golf tour and and you know it was difficult to be on the tour with the co thing and he he was
00:15:38
looking to do a podcast. So they asked me would you do a podcast based around your major championship wins which I
00:15:44
agreed to and we did that and it was hugely successful to the point where we had quite a number of players like Rory
00:15:49
Maroy Henrik Stenson and a few really really top players listened to it and and and really found it good and they
00:15:54
reached out and said how much they enjoyed the podcast. Uh so based on the podcast there was quite a bit of
00:16:00
interest uh from publishing companies to perhaps uh extend on that podcast go a bit deeper into it and a bit broader as
00:16:08
far as not just the majors but my entire time with Tiger um and um yeah so through that Evan and I discussed it
00:16:16
with a publisher and we came up with what we were going to do and yeah we did it at at that point was the podcast
00:16:21
series with Evan and my podcast the only podcast you you'd ever done? The first
00:16:25
podcast I series I did was with Evan. Yeah. And that was during co. So, uh, yeah. Yeah. There's very little about
00:16:32
you online. So, um, yeah. What was the process? What was the process with Evan? Yeah. So, we we having done two books
00:16:39
before, I I realized that, um, the most important thing is time. And when you commit to do a book, um, you know, the
00:16:47
the general time frame from the two previous books was 6 months, which I knew was not going to be long enough. um
00:16:52
the longer you can do it, the better you can you can do it. So we we extended this one out to 9 months. Uh and that
00:16:58
way we we were able to so twi every week uh twice a week Evan and I would talk for 2 hours um and in between he would
00:17:05
do research, I would do research and then Evan came over to finish the book up. We came to New Zealand for a week uh
00:17:11
to tidy up all the loose ends and that. So we we we've really really happy the
00:17:15
way the book turned out. Uh there was no rush to it. Uh we got everything in there and tweak things around when we
00:17:20
needed to and um yeah no it's really turned out good. I think the reader will
00:17:24
find a very good insight uh into my relationship cing for Tiger and a little bit behind the scenes and what make
00:17:30
Tigers tick and how we're so successful and some really you know untold stories
00:17:34
in there that people will find fascinating. Yeah, I I love the um behind the scenes stuff. Um yeah, like
00:17:41
the peak behind the curtain into a lifestyle. Yeah, the tiger mania lifestyle lifestyle that none of us will
00:17:45
ever see. Um, and there there's almost nothing negative in the book at all. Yeah. Look, was that deliberate? Oh,
00:17:52
well, there's nothing negative to report. I mean, you know, like the media portray a lot of stuff that happened
00:17:57
between Tiger and myself and Tiger personally. Um, you know, I don't get into that, but you know, as far as, you
00:18:03
know, working for Tiger as a golf caddy. I mean, there was nothing negative to be
00:18:06
reported. I mean, we had a great relationship. He was a very successful player. Uh, and it's just a look at
00:18:12
between how two players or a caddy and a player coexisted in that time. No, no, but like if you if you know someone
00:18:19
intimately for 11 years, like the in any situation, you've got stories where you
00:18:23
can throw them under the bus. Like you hear conversations or you you know you just the chat you have um like I'm
00:18:29
thinking Prince Harry's book last year called Spear. Like he really threw his
00:18:32
dad under the bus on a couple of occasions. Um, but it's like the closest you come to doing that is may maybe
00:18:37
there's a line in there saying when you first met Tiger, you've never seen
00:18:40
someone eat McDonald's so often. How much McD How old was he then? Like 19, 20? Yeah. So, how much Meccas was he
00:18:47
eating? Yeah, he he he he was when I first started cing for him, he was fueled by McDonald's. I found that
00:18:53
pretty fascinating. Um, I'd never been to so many drive-thrus and I and I can't
00:18:58
stand McDonald's. It's just I don't mind their milkshakes, but that's about it.
00:19:01
But yeah, so no, but he he he turned his diet around and everything. But yeah, look, the book's about, you know, like I
00:19:08
said, you know, as far as my time with Tiger, you know, you always have some tense times that everybody does when you
00:19:13
spend that much time working for somebody. And, you know, a player and a caddy spend an immense amount of time
00:19:18
together over a period of a year. Some players play 30 weeks, 40 weeks. Tiger play, you know, 23, 24 weeks, and it's 7
00:19:24
days a week. And a lot of time, uh, the days are lengthy. So, you're close to
00:19:28
someone. You're going to have some moments where you're not getting on or
00:19:30
you have a difference of opinion, but there's nothing in that book. There was
00:19:34
no need to to throw Tiger under the bus. It like I said that it's a story about a
00:19:38
player in a caddy and and what made us so successful. Yeah. It seems like um even though you
00:19:45
guys don't have any sort of relationship to speak of now, there is the sort of
00:19:49
like un definitely an unwritten respect between both of you. Oh, abs. Absolutely. I mean, you know,
00:19:55
realistically, how could there not be? I mean, you know, Tiger played arguably the greatest golf ever played and and
00:20:01
particularly in the major championships and, you know, I was there all the time in that and we we were getting on
00:20:06
famously until we split. So, you know, there's there's it's a great story. What
00:20:10
do you hope his response would be if if he um comes across the book and picks it
00:20:14
up, has a read through. How could how could you not, by the way? Yeah. Yeah. Look, we we we've Yeah. the the copy
00:20:20
that you receive is called a galley copy which we sent uh to Tiger's management
00:20:25
people hoping that he would read and I'm and and I'm pretty sure he would read to
00:20:28
be honest. Um and I I would think he'd find it very very good. Um it's a very
00:20:34
accurate true account. There's it's uh it's very um yeah it's very thoughtful
00:20:39
the book. Were there any moments or stories that are in the book that you sort of armed about but ultimately left
00:20:45
in? Oh no. Look the given the time that we we had to do the book it was really fascinating. It was like taking a step
00:20:51
back in time and that I did the podcast which was great. Um but that was a week toe thing. So this book was taking more
00:20:56
time than that. And so you know when you you're doing some research and I was
00:20:59
going through my notes and I had my yardage books and and just actually going through a lot of my statistics and
00:21:04
compiling a lot of information for the book. It was it was really uh I find it quite empowering actually. It was very
00:21:10
good because when you're catting and you when you're out there and you're
00:21:13
competing and when I'm not competing but I'm catting it's just next week next
00:21:17
week you never look in the rear mirror. It's always on to the next week on to
00:21:20
the next thing onto the next thing and and even outside of cing I'm a bit like
00:21:23
that myself just keep moving on to the next thing. But to actually sit back for a, you know, like it took us 9 months to
00:21:29
put that all together and, you know, go back in time a little bit and look at all those moments and um recall a lot of
00:21:35
moments. And when you when you have a bit of time and you're not under pressure, it's very easy to remember
00:21:39
things that. But when you're always active and you're moving forward like
00:21:42
when we're doing the podcast sometimes, um, you know, it's hard to remember a
00:21:47
lot of stuff. But with a bit of extra time and that, um, between Evan and I been able to research a lot of stuff and
00:21:52
go back in time, that was great. M what what do you hope readers will take away from the book? Oh, look, I mean, it'll
00:21:58
just give them a a really true appreciation of what goes on between a player and Caddyy and what made Tiger so
00:22:04
special and and what that relationship was like. I mean, you know, I get asked every day, every every
00:22:11
every week, you know, what was it like having Tiger? Well, here's a book now
00:22:15
that you can buy and it'll give you a really, really good account of what went
00:22:19
on between Tiger and myself with some lighter moments, some darker moments, and some really enthralling moments
00:22:25
along with, you know, what made them so good and and and a lot of the highlights
00:22:30
of the time that I carried for him. Yeah. What what you're saying, lighter moments, darker moments, that's like any
00:22:34
long-term relationship or friendship, isn't it? It's um Yeah. It's part of it.
00:22:38
Um how of Yeah. How often do people say something to you? Oh, look, it's it's
00:22:42
it's hard, I guess. I mean, you know, everybody looks at me and just says, "Oh, that's the guy that catty for Tiger
00:22:48
Woods." I mean, I guess a lot of people don't know. Um, you know, my previous
00:22:53
story to Cing for Tiger and look, we had a bit of a funny moment last week. We were at the New Zealand Open. And we're
00:22:59
playing with American John Catelan, a fantastic player, the winner of the Asian Order of Merit last year, a
00:23:04
fantastic player. And he said to me, Steve, uh, how long you been catting in the New Zealand Open? I said, well, my
00:23:09
first one was 1976. cuz he nearly fell over. So 29 years. Yeah. So um next year's New
00:23:16
Zealand Open um 2026 New Zealand Open will mark you know 50 years from the first time I carried in a professional
00:23:24
tournament for Peter Thompson. So it's actually a a moment I'm looking quite
00:23:28
special to and you know perhaps that might be the time I say well never again. I'm the only bag I'm going to
00:23:32
carry is my own not someone else's maybe. Yeah, I feel like um yeah, you definitely get reflective as you get
00:23:39
older and um you may maybe at the time maybe it's what you're talking about
00:23:42
before. It's like that sort of growth mindset where it's just on to the next
00:23:45
onto the next onto the next. Um but as you get older, you pause and reflect and you realize just what a special not just
00:23:51
the tiger period, but the whole career, how special the whole thing's been. Yeah. Look, I started out, you know,
00:23:56
like I said, 1976. It's a long time ago, 50 years next year. And um you know I've the the players that
00:24:04
I've c for have all been very intense players and guys with absolute determination to win and that puts a
00:24:11
pressure on yourself. So I I guess the get stepping away from the tour after being under pressure particularly with
00:24:18
Tiger and and also Greg to start with maybe not so much with Ray Floyd but you know Adam's a little bit more laidback
00:24:25
um you know wants to do well but it's not the end of the world if he didn't do
00:24:29
well. was with was Greg and Tiger. It was just that was their world. They had to do um and more so even Tiger. So, um
00:24:36
when you step back and and look at the length of time I carried for and and the success I've had and and the journey
00:24:42
that I've been on, um you know, starting out for somebody that, you know, left
00:24:46
school and started their dream at a very young age and that cing professionally at 15 years of age to start out and
00:24:53
heading overseas at such a young age. Um yeah, when you look back it's you know I
00:24:58
I often say to my son now like you know I imagine you out there at 15 or when he
00:25:02
was 15 you know jumping on a plane going to Europe and starting your career. So yeah no it's been an incredible journey
00:25:07
and like you say when you get a bit of time and you retire and you sit back and not relax but sit back and reflect it's
00:25:13
pretty cool. Yeah there's so many little um I suppose you could call them Steve
00:25:18
Williams isms in the book um which I wanted to like bring up and run through some of these. First of all, the peanut
00:25:25
butter and banana sandwich thing. Um, this is like a a treat that you made for like all your players. Did you do this
00:25:31
as far back as Greg Norman? Yep. It was just a ritual that I had. Um, as as a kid that was my staple diet, peanut
00:25:37
butter, banana sandwiches, and then for every player I've gave or you know, I'd
00:25:40
bring two sandwiches. Uh, and I'd get one on the seventh tea, one on the 13th
00:25:44
tea, one third way through the round, two/3 way round. I'd give them half a half a sandwich each. And it just became
00:25:50
the thing. They all accepted it and they all loved it. So this is this is long before the internet. So this isn't isn't
00:25:56
from some nutritional advice you got or anything. This is just what I as a kid every breakfast I had was peanut butter
00:26:02
and banana on toast and then for lunch was peanut butter banana sandwiches. I just loved it. My parents uh they
00:26:08
obviously uh told me about it and it's just something I have done and you know
00:26:12
to this day it would be it would be an interesting thing. People often say, "How many miles do you think you've
00:26:17
flown?" And I always think to myself, "Well, how many one I don't know how
00:26:19
many peanut butter sandwiches I've eaten?" Because I still do it today every day. Yeah. The funny thing for me
00:26:24
was just the um you know, the I suppose the justosition of this, you know, you making these sandwiches and, you know,
00:26:31
almost force-feeding them to these like billionaires that are, you know, flying around their private planes and stuff,
00:26:36
you know, these elite high professional sports people. Yeah. Hey, it's just a
00:26:40
bit of kiwism, isn't it? That's it's a popular thing in New Zealand. Pen up an
00:26:44
ar sandwiches. I just took that with me and um yeah, just that's what it was. Um
00:26:48
white bread, brown bread. Brown bread. Brown bread. And and um did you open the banana and squish it in just before
00:26:55
presenting? I sliced it. Sliced it. Did it go brown? Oh, you know, on a hot steamy day in in Memphis in 110° when
00:27:03
you hand that sandwich on the 13th, it's not looking like it's freshly made, but
00:27:06
still tastes good. Does the job. Um another I suppose Williamsism. uh you chose one song and sung it over and over
00:27:15
again uh during every major. Yeah, look I mean like I don't watch a lot of TV,
00:27:21
never had that. So when I was catting in these tournaments and that my relaxation
00:27:24
at night time that was just to sit on the sofa or sit on your bed and listen to music and that and and plug in some
00:27:30
music and every week I'd sort of come up with a song and that was my song and I'd
00:27:34
play it over and over and over. Um it was just something I did and and um some of those songs had a reference to the
00:27:40
tournament, some of them didn't. Um, but most of them did have some kind of reference to either the town that you
00:27:45
were cadding in, the course you were catting in, or uh the tournament. So, um, just something else I did. Yeah, it
00:27:52
always classic rock songs like um Yeah, I I pretty much just listen to classic rock. My whole music roll on my iPod or
00:28:00
iPad uh is just classic rock. Yeah. I don't venture into country or anything
00:28:04
else. Just classic rock. I mean, you know, like that's what I like. Yeah. Foreigner. Um, NXS, Australian Crawl.
00:28:12
Yeah, you can go through them all. Yeah. Brian Adams. Yeah. Super [ __ ] AC/DC, NXS, Mental is Anything, Choir Boys,
00:28:21
lots of Osok in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think when I first cried in Australia
00:28:25
uh in those early years and that um we used to go so often to pubs in Australia and all these bands before a lot of
00:28:31
these bands I listen to like Mondo Rock and Cold Chis and that they were pub bands to start with um before they
00:28:36
really hit the the big time and that and you could see them in the pubs in Australia and anyone that's been to
00:28:41
Australia you knows the pub rock scene's huge there. I mean, not that it's not
00:28:44
here in New Zealand, but they've obviously had a far greater number of bands given the population and it's a
00:28:50
big scene, the Aussie pub rock scene. And I used to love that when I was younger. So, so you you select a song,
00:28:56
say for the majors um you know, for say Augusta Masters and um are you singing it to yourself or are you singing it out
00:29:03
loud and sharing it with Tiger? Yeah. He must be like, "What the [ __ ] is this
00:29:06
song light up? What's this?" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, sometimes it was
00:29:10
just there and and other times I'd, you know, be humming it away a little bit and and most of the times he was
00:29:17
like, "Man, what's your kind of music, man? You need to get updated here, son."
00:29:20
Cuz his music when we were in the car and that and he' pushed his radio station. I'd pushed my radio station.
00:29:25
They were two different varieties. Yeah. What was he doing? Like sort of hip-hop.
00:29:29
Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Um, another thing, I suppose this is a Williamsism. You You didn't have a cell phone. you
00:29:36
were like resistant about technology and Tiger had to end up buying you one your
00:29:40
first cell phone because it became too um I don't know arduous I guess like trying to track you down in your hotel
00:29:47
room again again to time stamp this this is like the late '9s so yeah they weren't smartphones it was probably like
00:29:52
a yeah I just I guess I've always tried to do things a little bit different uh
00:29:59
not just in any aspect of life I like to do things a little bit different to the
00:30:03
norm um and I just resisted on getting a cell phone. I said, "I mean, what do you
00:30:07
need a cell phone for?" I mean, uh, you know, you you if you need to call me and
00:30:11
call me in the morning at night in the hotel and that that that I I held my ground for as long as I could and he
00:30:16
made me have one so that he could get a hold of me outside of the Yeah. So, I held off as long as I could. Yeah.
00:30:22
What's your relationship like with a cellular device now? Oh, look, I'm not
00:30:25
I'm not a big phone person at all. In fact, my wife recently um we had a bit
00:30:31
of a moment in our house where my son Jet had some mates come over and and up until two years ago, I still was using a
00:30:38
flip phone and they thought that they had never seen a flip phone. They thought that was the remote for the TV
00:30:43
and they were trying to turn the TV on with my phone and we got a huge laugh at that and my wife said, "I think it's
00:30:48
time you actually went and got a a proper phone." So, yeah, I had to bow to
00:30:52
that. But, uh look, I mean, I just like I said, I like to do things different. I'm not I'm not a technology person and
00:30:57
and like to be fair I just I actually hate phones. I mean I think the way the world is now people just spend way too
00:31:04
much time on their phones and you know when we were younger you make a phone call you ring someone from the telephone
00:31:08
in your home and that was all that was available. I don't know why we still can't do that today. Yeah. Um another
00:31:14
really cool thing um handwritten notes of feedback and criticism back and forth between Tiger and yourself. So you'd
00:31:20
finish a round um and you you'd end up with the golf clubs and you'd have to
00:31:24
return them to his room. Yeah. So I was always in charge of the clubs and that and and sometimes I'd take them if we
00:31:30
were staying in the same same hotel, I'd be in my room or he I'd put them in his
00:31:33
room. Uh and sometimes when I thought there was uh something nice to be added to the day, we did these handwritten
00:31:40
notes and then quite often in the morning I would come back to get his clubs and you know he would leave
00:31:45
earlier to either go to the the gym or stretch at the golf course or or go to the golf course to have his breakfast
00:31:51
whatever it may be and there would be a note accompanying the golf clubs, a return note from yesterday's note. Um
00:31:57
they were special things and that's you know that was done primarily cuz I didn't have a phone obviously. So I
00:32:03
would write a little note and I found you and I've kept those notes and they
00:32:06
meant a lot to me. There was some very powerful statements in those notes and some very reflective things and you know
00:32:11
and sometimes if I thought there was something glaring that Tiger needed to work on before he came out the next day.
00:32:17
You know my way of telling him that was um via a note. Um I I guess you could say that's about as old school as it
00:32:23
gets. But um there's something more meaningful to writing a note as opposed to a text. And I would still say that
00:32:29
today if I want to leave my wife something really a nice taste or a nice note my son the same way I think a note
00:32:36
is far better than a text or any other kind of device communication. So um yeah some of those notes and when Tiger got
00:32:45
into you know a dark space here recently um he sent me a couple of notes uh yeah
00:32:52
which was really awesome. So he he he you know still upheld that thing that he that he knew that I liked the note side
00:32:59
of things as opposed to and this was at a time where you know I had an iPad and he could have sent an email but instead
00:33:05
he sent you know a letter by letter. So yeah. Yeah, you're right. It's so much
00:33:08
more so much more meaningful. It's like sending someone a happy birthday email
00:33:11
rather than giving them an actual greeting card. Um yeah why did you why did you keep all of them? Did you did
00:33:18
you realize that did they mean something to you even at the time? Oh yeah, absolutely. Uh yeah, I just
00:33:23
um I'm not sure what you know I just I guess the first one I actually remember
00:33:27
the first one when I gave it to him and um Can you remember what it said? Yeah. Well,
00:33:32
we Tiger played Steven Ames. He was um to play Steven Ames in the world match play at Carl'sbad, California. And
00:33:41
Steven Ames made a bit of a song and a dance in the media when he was asked about facing Tiger. and he sort of
00:33:47
thought he was a bit overrated Tiger and that and his comments weren't very uh
00:33:53
they were quite derogatory and and I left Tiger a note uh to say you know like hey tomorrow this is going to be a
00:34:00
match that we want to take control of right from the first hole he beat him nine and eight biggest victory ever in
00:34:07
that tournament um he put Steven Ames in his place that was the first note and um
00:34:12
you know Tiger left a nice note um that evening after I placed the clubs back as
00:34:17
room and it just something that evolved from there. Yeah, that's um that's a good story
00:34:22
about Steven AS. There's a line in the book that um you got to remember clearly. It's something like there's two
00:34:26
things you don't want to do in life. Um floss a pit bull's teeth and aggravate
00:34:31
Tiger Woods. Something like that. It's a great line. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I mean,
00:34:35
you know, quite often players, you know, look, I it's a difficult situation for a
00:34:40
lot of the players and that because Tiger, when he was in the peak of his power on the tour, he was getting 90% of
00:34:45
the media coverage. Everything was Tiger. It was just Tiger this, Tiger that, Tiger this. And a lot of players
00:34:50
got sick of being asked about Tiger instead of themselves. I get that side of the situation. And they became quite,
00:34:55
you know, a lot of resentful in a lot of ways. And it was, it became glaring occasionally. And then some players when
00:35:01
they had the chance when they were asked about Tiger instead of themselves, you know, they they gave an answer that
00:35:07
probably they may maybe wish they hadn't said and in particularly if they got
00:35:10
drawn with Tiger that week and then you know that just you know you just you never wanted to add any fuel to the fire
00:35:15
because this guy was just you know he just thrived on that kind of controversy. Yeah. I ended up um I ended
00:35:21
up watching uh stumbling on YouTube the other day um an interview that Tiger did
00:35:24
when he was very very young like at the beginning of his career. Do you know what I'm talking? It's a the where the
00:35:29
reporter like laughs and says you'll learn. Do you know that one? Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:34
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's there's you know there's a lot of moments like that
00:35:40
where um you know you just add fuel to the fire. And look, when Tiger came back after his um ordeal where he was away
00:35:49
from golf and his private life became public, u when he went to play at the Masters, the chairman of the Masters
00:35:56
when he had his address, you know, about Tiger, you know, the comments he made were pretty unfair. And you know, and
00:36:02
and in the back of my head, I said, "Well, that's just the fuel he needs
00:36:05
this week to to get him fired up to play well when he hasn't competed and been in
00:36:10
front of anybody for a while." And sure enough, he played well. And I think
00:36:13
those comments that the chairman of Augusta made were probably not the right comments to come at that particular
00:36:18
time. Yeah, we we talked about that in the podcast. Um yeah, last year that whole thing like with the passage of
00:36:24
time, you look back and it was um it's it's quite unbelievable really. Even
00:36:28
Tiger having to stand in that room and make a public apology for his indiscretions. It's the whole thing's
00:36:33
like it's wacky and weird. Look, everybody has, you know, has their own, you know, has their own story and and,
00:36:42
you know, some of it not people are proud of. And look, you look at last week's New Zealand Open, Dom, the guy
00:36:47
that won the Open last week, his story, you know, it's it's an incredible story.
00:36:51
And everybody's got a story. It doesn't matter who they are, where they come
00:36:54
from, how successful they are, everybody's got a story, and everybody's made errors. And that's just the way
00:36:59
life is. And when somebody that's in a prominent position, as we all know here
00:37:02
in New Zealand, we're now all blacks stumble, they get crucified. And and Tiger was no different. Um, is it
00:37:08
justified in the media? Probably not. You know, someone's private life, we all
00:37:13
make mistakes, but you know, you and I make a mistake, it's doesn't mean
00:37:16
anything, but you get someone of that level make a mistake and it all becomes public news and and a lot of it gets
00:37:21
exaggerated and so forth. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah. the stuff we're talking about like Tiger owed some people an
00:37:27
apology like his wife for example and you and your wife but um in terms of like standing in front of a room with
00:37:33
his mom there and all these like um golf executives. Yeah. The whole thing is very very weird and I think the more
00:37:40
time goes by the more we're going to realize just how weird that time was. Yeah. I mean people like you know like
00:37:47
people going to like anything do everyone's just going to remember Tiger as a guy that's won you know 15 major
00:37:53
championships won the four majors in concession and was the greatest player that ever played and like in 20 years
00:38:00
time like anything nobody's going to remember that kind of stuff 100%. Oh there there was um there's a motto in
00:38:05
the book which um I wanted to ask for elaboration on cuz I didn't really understand it. Um fast pay makes fast
00:38:10
friends. Oh we we we we had lots of bets. Tiger and I were would continually um make little bets sometimes when
00:38:18
things would wouldn't go so well on the course and that and you're looking for a
00:38:22
way to stimulate some energy and and some find some quick form on the course to reather yourself. You know, we'd have
00:38:28
a little bet. Uh okay, over the next nine holes, if you can hit every fairway in every green, I owe 100 and for every
00:38:34
green that you miss and every fairy miss, you owe me 100. and we'd have all sorts of bets and those bets had to be
00:38:41
paid at the end of the end of the day. They weren't carryovers from last week
00:38:44
or that fast pay makes fast friends. So bets any betting had to be exchanged the
00:38:49
straight away. So yes, it seems like there was a lot of betting going on like u you you'd be running a golf course and
00:38:55
bunch of people would be having bets on you doing it in a certain time. Um did you did you do quite handsomely out of
00:39:01
it up or down at the end? Well, I mean I I I I I guess you know I would generally come out on top because
00:39:09
when I'd say to tiger you got nine holes to go every fairway and that well you
00:39:13
know generally over the course of period you know he'd hit 65% of the fairways
00:39:17
would be would be his average. So I would know probably going to miss one out of four fairways and that. So, um,
00:39:23
but when there's 100 bucks on the line, that was meant more to him than the tournament. And like getting a 100 off
00:39:27
me or his mates or his coach, that mean more than winning the tournament cuz he hates losing. And he, um, he gifted you
00:39:34
a Ford GT40. I'm not really a car guy. What, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what does, what
00:39:37
does that mean? What does it look like? Uh, a Ford GT40. Uh, Ford, sorry, a GT40. Uh, the GT the 40 comes from 40 in
00:39:46
over the off the ground. It's it's a replica of the cars that competed Lemon's way back. It was yeah it's a
00:39:52
pretty special vehicle. It's a race car basically a road road ready race car and
00:39:57
that and uh it was a very very funny story how that came about. We were in Dubai in 2004. Tiger was playing in the
00:40:04
Dubai Desert Classic and we were on Sunday. We were in the gym. Um we were watching the final round unfold from
00:40:10
Miami where the it's called the Ford Open. And Craig Perry actually hold his
00:40:13
second shot on the last hold to win the tournament, Australian player. And apart from the prize money, there
00:40:20
was a Ford GT on offer. And I said to Ty cuz I'm a big Ford guy and he was with
00:40:24
Buick at the time. So, you know, it's that Ford versus Holden, Ford versus Chevy. And I'm I'm a stoic Ford person.
00:40:30
And I said, you know, what are we doing here playing in Dubai? You could be playing in that tournament, winning that
00:40:34
car. You know, I'm a big Ford man. It was just a bit of banter while we were
00:40:37
actually riding, peddling along on our bikes, having a bit of banter. The next year, he plays in the tournament. And um
00:40:43
you know, it was an epic duel with Phil Mickelson. And on on the Sunday, the play went outside the TV time that
00:40:52
so they didn't have time to do the presentation after the they check the cars. They do a very quick impromptu
00:40:57
presentation on the 18th green there. And as we're walking off the green, Tiger just chucked the car keys. No word
00:41:02
spoken. Just chuck the car keys. So, you know, I had that Ford GT delivered in Oregon where I was living
00:41:10
uh when I was in America, shipped home here to New Zealand. So, it's a pretty
00:41:13
uh unique vehicle. In fact, there's only two of them of that. Um they made 3,000
00:41:18
of those in that remake and uh there's two of them in New Zealand, one of which
00:41:22
I have one of them. Yeah. How often you take it out? Uh, not often enough, but I
00:41:28
it's um it's a collector vehicle, so the less miles on it, uh, the greater the
00:41:32
value. Um, but I, yeah, I run it around the block. It's very noisy and very quick, and, you know, it's a hard car
00:41:38
not to put your foot down, so I have to take it out on a bit of road where I know there's going to be no cops around
00:41:43
and give it a blast. They'll be setting up cameras in your neighborhood now.
00:41:47
Yes. So, it's worth um, according to the book, like worth like half a million
00:41:50
now. US. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a very valuable car and that but um yeah, I mean it'll stay in the family. I'll hand
00:41:56
it down to my son and he'll hand it down and you know those sort of vehicles, you
00:42:00
know, in a hundred years times it'll be, you know, an incredible amount of money
00:42:04
that it's worth. But it's just a collector thing and and I see that as a
00:42:07
great uh family treasure. Yeah. I feel like for you it's not um it's not so
00:42:12
much the investment, it's um the sentimental value. Oh yeah, absolutely. And it would never go outside the
00:42:17
family. It was just it started as a joke in in a hotel in Dubai riding the bikes
00:42:21
to you know just chuck me the car keys uh and I had uh a little bit of a thrill in it and and um when I got the vehicle
00:42:30
and you know Tiger Phil Mickelson who who defeated on the last hole there hit a chip shot that realistically I don't
00:42:36
know how it didn't go in cuz Phil was iring up that car too and he was with Ford at the time. Uh, and I had sort of
00:42:43
I had great pleasure in saying to Phil, "Well, Phil, it's too bad, but you
00:42:47
wouldn't have fit in it anyway." So, Tiger and I had a great laugh. He said, "Steve, you didn't say
00:42:53
that, did you?" I said, "Yeah, I did, dude." Um, yeah. I mean, did did Tiger secretly
00:43:00
love that stuff? Oh, look. Like, you I mean, there's the the Phil staff. Um,
00:43:04
you Yeah, you called him a prick once or something like that publicly. Um, even other things non-filler related like you
00:43:10
kicking the camera when someone's shutter went off um during a back swing. Um, I suppose publicly he's sort of had
00:43:16
to be seen to sort of not, you know, disapprove, but secretly he loved that [ __ ] right? Oh, we we had some great
00:43:22
jokes and that. Look, I mean, I I like I said, I tried to protect him, you know,
00:43:26
the best I could, but like you know, him and Phil were great arch rivals. He he knew um that once Phil got on a roll
00:43:34
with majors, he was going to be hard to beat in that. And um and they became great rivals. They weren't best of
00:43:40
mates. You know, you don't have to be best of mates. They were rivals. And it's not often that the the guy that you
00:43:46
have the most respect for and and you think is going to be the the guy that's
00:43:50
is going to challenge you the most. You know, it's unlikely that you're going to
00:43:53
be friends with him. And um but yeah, little moments like that when when I told Tiger that you when we had a great
00:43:58
laugh. It's such a [ __ ] line. So good. Um, oh, so yeah, one more question on
00:44:03
that GT. I say how many KS on the clock, do you know? Uh, it's got 1,600 miles.
00:44:08
Unreal. Yeah. Still left hand drive. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There you could you couldn't change a car like that from
00:44:13
left hand drive to right hand drive. Yeah. That's very low miles, isn't it? Yeah.
00:44:19
Yeah. Well, it is the thing though that that the less miles they have and uh a vehicle like that when you if you did go
00:44:26
to sell it, you've got to give Ford the first chance. That's part of the deal.
00:44:29
You got to give them the first option to buy it back. But the less miles it's
00:44:32
got, the better condition it's in. And um yeah, that's just that that's how
00:44:36
those cars are judged by the mileage and the condition. Yeah. Um there's another
00:44:40
story in the book about you dropping a a yardage book into a portaloo. So um like
00:44:47
first what is a yardage book? How important is it? And was there any way you could have, you know, fished it out?
00:44:54
Well, I did fish it out, but uh a yardage book is is a memo. It is a diagram of the hole, a very
00:45:02
accurate diagram of the hole with all the measurements. So, you know, how far from the tea to the bunker, from the
00:45:07
bunker to the green, all the measurements on the green is it's a catty's bible. Uh when I first started
00:45:12
cadding, we made them ourselves. And that was the the the art of catting is has severely been diminished over the
00:45:19
years that because we had to make those books ourselves. And it took hours to do
00:45:23
that. For instance, uh the very first time I went to St. Andrews uh in 1980 to make a yardage book. I think it took 14
00:45:30
hours from memory to actually compile a yardage book accurately and get every bunker in that book and everything you
00:45:36
need to know. Now you just turn up and buy one of these books. So, you know, like and and and we have, you know,
00:45:43
green reading devices and uh lasers that shoot the distances and stuff. So, u but
00:45:48
as far as Yeah, I did drop a yardage book one morning. Um it it was in Florida and it was a very hot morning.
00:45:54
Fortunately, no one had been into the toilet. It had been cleaned out and it was just clear blue water. It was a
00:45:58
really hot morning and I got that out quickly and and as we were walking along, I'd open each page under the
00:46:03
morning sun hoping it would drive it. It was very embarrassing moment. Oh, that's
00:46:07
a that's a good explanation. I sort of imagined like a festival at the end of
00:46:10
the day. Oh, no, no, no, no. It was during play. Um Oh, yeah. Michael Jordan gets a few
00:46:16
mentions in the book. Uh you talk about him and Tiger being hilarious on the golf course together.
00:46:21
Yeah. Can you elaborate on that? Well, Michael's just the ultimate competitor.
00:46:25
Um, just like Tiger. Absolutely hates to lose. And he he plays, you know, like I
00:46:31
used to joke with Michael that, you know, you play more than Tiger does. I mean, you know, if he can play 72 holes
00:46:35
in a day, he would. And one day, uh, I was cing for Tiger or not C like with with Tiger. Uh, they played 54 holes at
00:46:43
Madina one day, just went round and round and round. And the reason why they kept going around because Michael got
00:46:48
further and further down and just kept double doubling up, doubling up, doubling up. You know, he he's well
00:46:52
known for his gambling. Uh he's not an addict, but he just loves to gamble and
00:46:56
he loved to gamble on the golf course and and he's a very good player. And um
00:47:00
you know, the banter between them two was hilarious uh when they played golf. And two incredibly gifted athletes and
00:47:07
two incredible desires to win. And whilst out in the golf course, it's Tiger's domain and not Michael's domain
00:47:14
because obviously if you step onto a basketball court and try and compete with him. Well, there's no handicap in
00:47:18
basketball, he's just going to knock you over like a fly. But on the golf course,
00:47:21
he's got a handicap and he can compete against Tiger and he wanted every scent
00:47:24
he could get out of him. What sort of stakes? Oh, they're playing for big stakes. I mean, it's not for me to delve
00:47:30
into that, but they're playing for big stakes and that, you know, $1,000 a whole sort of stuff, but which, you
00:47:34
know, a big deal. Yeah. If you're a billionaire, that's nothing, right? Like
00:47:38
it was never about the money. just the the guy that could at the end of the day that had to buy the drinks and and you
00:47:43
know that was a special moment whether it would be Tiger or Michael and cigars. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. No, Michael loves that
00:47:49
cigar. Tig Tiger not while he was playing, but Michael he he's got that scar and he's got that swagger and you
00:47:55
know you can't sort of he his charisma is just you know second to none that I've met and you know you if the moment
00:48:03
you give him a bit of banter he's just right back with the right line and that
00:48:07
um very clever and I can imagine him on the basketball court in his heyday um he
00:48:12
would have been a hard guy to navigate because he's got all the answers. Yeah.
00:48:16
Have you seen The Last Dance TV series on Netflix or Yeah, absolutely. When you got it when you when you know somebody
00:48:22
personally and you've had a bit of an insight uh with someone like that, you
00:48:26
you can't help but like looking at that. Yeah. I mean, just a you know, I mean,
00:48:30
what what a gifted guy. I mean, tried baseball for a little bit uh went back to basketball and and and and uh carries
00:48:37
a very low handicap. I mean, you know, just those guys are incredible. Some of these sportsmen, not just the the sport
00:48:42
that they make a living at, but they can play other sports. Yeah, you you can see
00:48:46
why those two um like bond today because they're I mean there's a lot of
00:48:50
parallels between them. Very different sports, but you very very similar mindsets I guess and um you know
00:48:56
uniqueness in terms of their ability. Well, look, I'm sure you know Michael's
00:48:59
had a word into Tiger's Air from time to time and and assisted him greatly in in
00:49:04
and modeling himself become the athlete he became. There's another story um in the book.
00:49:09
Uh, so you're staying on Tiger's boat privacy and um Roger Fedra dingies in
00:49:15
for for dinner or whatever. It's just the most surreal stories. It's crazy.
00:49:19
So, who who else is at the dinner? Is it just the three of you? It's or is there
00:49:23
a bunch of people there? Yeah. No. So, when they um used to have the World Golf Championship event in Miami, um the tour
00:49:32
the Kiscane tennis tournament was on at the same time. I think the I don't recall it was the first week or second
00:49:37
week. So Roger was in town in Miami the same the golf tournament was in town the
00:49:40
same time as the tennis tournament. Uh and Roger and his wife had come over onto the boat one night for dinner. It
00:49:46
just be Tiger and his wife and myself for dinner. And um yeah it was fascinating. I I was very fortunate to
00:49:54
meet a lot of those people like um that Tiger Wayne Gretzky and another and uh Ken Griffy Jr. and some of these players
00:50:01
and I was never afraid to ask some of these guys, you know, how do they get to be so good? what you know how do they
00:50:08
practice this that and the other but the the common thing between all these guys
00:50:12
is just not so much how much you practice but how you practice you know you've got to make every shot hit counts
00:50:19
and that doesn't mean matter whether you're on the golf course or you're on
00:50:22
the practice and that's one of the reasons why Tiger became as good as he was because every shot he hit had a
00:50:28
meaning to it a lot of players just get on the if they go and practice for three
00:50:30
or four hours they just stand there hitting balls they might chat to their mates for a half an hour make a phone
00:50:35
call for 10 minutes or you know da da da when Tiger practiced every shot he hit had a purpose. It had you know had a
00:50:40
meaning to it. he was trying to hit a particular shape or he was visualizing a shot for a particular hole and there was
00:50:47
there was concentration to every shot was just wasn't okay hit a ball place another you know you know it's like you
00:50:52
go to the drive range you hit one get another one hit one hit one there was none of that it was so that the not like
00:50:58
I say not so much the time but the effort that went into it and and you know when I was talking to Roger about
00:51:04
his success and how how he got to be so great it's the same story you know he he
00:51:09
said he didn't practice as much as other players but those practices, every practice had a meaning to it. He was
00:51:14
thinking about a match that he was coming, the kind of shot he was trying to practice, the type of spin he was
00:51:18
trying to put on the ball, how he's trying to execute the shot. So, there was thought that goes into every shot.
00:51:22
And you know when you you when you look at that uh what makes some of these guys
00:51:27
so good is you know what's the difference between Roger Fedra a Wayne Gretzky a Tiger Woods between the other
00:51:33
guys is they can execute on Sunday or not in our case it's Sunday and tennis
00:51:38
would be Sunday but they can execute the shots under the highest amount of pressure and why is that because they've
00:51:43
put themselves under that pressure in their own space when they're practicing
00:51:47
they visualize they're hitting the second shot to the masters or Michael's
00:51:51
making that last bucket, you know, at the buzzer and that sort of thing. They they play that over and over. So, when
00:51:57
they actually have to come and do it, the muscle memory takes over and they can do it. It's a fascinating thing. And
00:52:03
uh there's a lot to be said for how you practice. Yeah. There's a saying I really like. I
00:52:08
don't know who it's um attributed to, but um the saying is um perfect practice
00:52:11
makes perfect. Yeah. Proper preparation prevents poor performance. The five Ps. And I live by that saying that it
00:52:17
doesn't matter what sport you do. If you prepare properly and accurately for what
00:52:22
you're trying to do, you'll succeed. Yeah. Did Did you Is this just knowledge
00:52:26
that you've picked up along the way with these champions that you've worked with
00:52:29
or did you sort of have this like like pre-orman? Oh, no. No, not not pre- Norman. No, you just you just like you
00:52:37
know I when you are as fortunate as I was to be on the tour at a very young age and I knew I was fortunate based on
00:52:44
how you know looking around like all these other guys I'm counting with are old and I'm out there one of the
00:52:48
youngest guys out there. Well I was the youngest when I started uh and and and I
00:52:53
quickly you know wanted to be different and I thought collecting notes and just taking all this information and
00:52:58
listening in and that but yeah Greg Greg was a big one on the you know on the five Ps. Proper preparation prevents
00:53:04
poor performance and um yeah that's you know it's a it's a great motto to live
00:53:10
by. Yeah he he's yeah we haven't really talked about him but he's amazing. How
00:53:15
old is how's Greg Norman now? He he's ripped out. He's in incredible shape.
00:53:19
Yeah. So Greg just had his uh 70th I believe uh just recently. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Um, you know, another wonderful
00:53:27
athlete that's had an amazing career and obviously, uh, has had a lot of, uh,
00:53:31
been in the news a lot in the last years with the introduction of the Liv Tour, which he had run, uh, the first two
00:53:36
seasons of the Liv Tour, got that up off the ground and was the front man for that. So, yeah, he's had, you know, an
00:53:42
incredible career and now he's involved with the um, the Olympics. They're
00:53:46
coming to Australia in another couple of Olympic cycles. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah. Like CEO or director or something?
00:53:52
Yeah. Well, I mean, he's obviously had huge experience with putting this live
00:53:56
league to tour and it's a worldwide thing and that. So, um, golf's included
00:54:01
in the Olympics and will be in Australia. So, yeah, he you know, look, Gre Greg's one of the most prized
00:54:07
Australian athletes of all time and that and, um, you know, he'll he'll be a huge
00:54:11
asset to the organizing committee there with his knowledge and and his popularity and and, um, it'll be great
00:54:17
for the Olympics. Yeah. Was that the first private plane you went on, Greg Norman's? Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So he he had
00:54:23
his own plane. When was this? In the 80s. Yeah. So Yeah. No one had private planes back then, right? Oh, a few of
00:54:28
them did, did they? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. No, look look, a lot of the guys that make a tremendous amount of
00:54:34
money, not not just in golf, but in all these sports there, that they they use a
00:54:38
plane. It's it's a tax write off for a lot of them. They make so much money and
00:54:41
and it makes like if you consider if you've got a family and a couple of kids
00:54:44
and a trainer and a caddy and a coach and a manager, all that and you got your own plane that as opposed to getting
00:54:49
five or six air tickets and that. But yeah, it's a convenience thing that in
00:54:53
America u very few of the pros that play the tour. They don't have their own
00:54:57
planes personally, but they buy into these companies where they buy hours off these companies, these, you know, quite
00:55:03
executive jet NetJets and a few of these companies that you can buy hours off. So
00:55:08
you, you know, you buy 100 hours and you just ring up and say, I want to go from
00:55:11
here to here on this day and that plane will pick you up and take you there. And
00:55:14
uh it's just a sheer thing. But um yeah, pretty uh when you look back now and
00:55:20
you're flying on private planes, my son recently or but when I last cattied for
00:55:24
for Adam and he's got his own plane too and and and um my son Jet had the chance
00:55:30
to ride for few hours on a private plane, he he thought that was pretty cool. Yeah. Sorry about these. Um, the these
00:55:37
are probably inane questions, especially for someone as low-key as you, but I'm
00:55:40
just intrigued and I'm asking these on behalf of myself and anyone else that
00:55:44
will never get to go on a private plane. Um, but yeah, it's badass, right? Yeah.
00:55:50
Well, I mean, the the ultimate private plane uh outside of what they call a bisjet is a G5, a GFream 5. There's a
00:55:56
Gulf Stream 1 2 3 4 5. Golf Stream 5 is the is the choice of champions if you like. And Tiger's got a G5 and Adam's
00:56:03
got a G5. Um Arnold Palmer had one, Jack Nicholas had one. There's not uh but
00:56:09
that's that's there's actually a thing called a bisjet which is like a 737
00:56:13
decked out privately um which some of the um teams use like the you know like we've been on the Orlando Magic plane
00:56:22
one time so they they have a setup and that but like as far as an individual person having a private jet a G5 is the
00:56:28
ultimate uh jet and you know I've been fortunate to cave two guys that have a
00:56:32
G5. So, uh, it's a pretty nice way to travel. Yeah. Is it Is it hard to go back to commercial? Even like business
00:56:38
class commercial after Oh, there's no comparison. Yeah. So, so, um, in the book you talk
00:56:44
about sometimes you're on um, Tiger's Jet and you know, he's got friends or
00:56:48
there's a conversation going on, so you just sort of disappear to the back of
00:56:51
the plane. What's the layout like? Is it like 12 seats, eight seats? Oh, they
00:56:55
configurate, you know, they they you can configurate the plane however you want in that. So e each person might have a
00:57:01
different configuration when they purchase a plane like that. But um it easy accommodates 10 people. Yeah. And
00:57:07
has four beds. And who who was usually on there? Tiger yourself, Tiger's manager. Yeah, that's basically it.
00:57:14
Yeah. Tiger's wife if she was coming along and that it's a very very uh there
00:57:19
was never a case of who's sitting where. Everyone knew where their place was and
00:57:23
it was a small select thing. Tiger, unlike a lot of the athletes in his position, always had a small group of
00:57:29
people. Had a manager, a coach, um, and a trainer, and that's about it. Yeah,
00:57:34
very small group. A lot of a lot of these guys have extra people. Um, but no, he liked to have a small group.
00:57:42
Um, yeah, something that else that's referenced in the book that I'd forgotten about it completely. Um, so in
00:57:47
2005, Tiger finished second in the US Open. Um, the year that Cambo, Michael Campbell, won. Um, so you're cattying
00:57:54
for Tiger. Um, it's basically Tiger versus um, one of our local heroes. Yeah. How's that for you? Yeah. Well,
00:58:01
look, it's mixed emotions. Look, I would say that's my ultimate cadding dream.
00:58:08
Um, and that only got to happen a couple of times. Uh, firstly, uh, with Grant Weight at the Canadian Open, uh, and
00:58:16
secondly with Michael Campbell at Pinehurst. And um and you know in fact um you know this year is the 20th
00:58:24
anniversary uh of Michael's triumph at at Pinehurst. And right or wrongly, I
00:58:30
said at the time that, you know, I thought it was the greatest sporting achievement by any New Zealander. And I
00:58:35
wasn't taking anything away from Bob Charles's victory in the 63 Open Championship or, you know, Sir Edman
00:58:41
Hillary climbed Mount Everest. But, you know, just get considering that a local Kiwi boy from Tahi Bay that grew up uh
00:58:49
on a golf course with sheep around the, you know, fences around the green with sheep on the golf course uh took down
00:58:55
the number one player in the world in his prime at the US Open. Um, you know, that was uh a pretty gifted moment and
00:59:03
it was a lot of thing that a lot of one thing about that tournament that most people don't know is Tiger stood around
00:59:11
for the presentation. um which no one ever would do when they finished second. Tiger knew the story of Michael
00:59:20
and he had the utmost respect for that. He obviously knew that Michael and I were friends and Michael's caddy,
00:59:25
Michael White, uh known as Sponge, a New Zealander here from New Plymouth that was cing for Michael at the time. Uh him
00:59:31
and I are great mates. Um and Tiger stood around for the presentation. Um you know, which he would never do and no
00:59:39
one that's finished as runner up. They are not required at the presentation.
00:59:41
and he he was there for the presentation and um that was a very special moment for me. It just kind of told me how much
00:59:48
he respected uh the bond that we have between New Zealanders and um yeah that's something that went probably you
00:59:55
know unnoticed there. Did Tiger make a habit of doing that like if Right. Right. the only time he ever did it. And
01:00:02
and you know, like I said, um he just had the utmost appreciation of Michael's
01:00:06
upbringing um and his background and what what he'd accomplished and he he was there for the
01:00:12
presentation. It was a special moment. Yeah. I suppose that says a lot about um your relationship with Tiger and what
01:00:20
you meant to Tiger rather, you know, he probably didn't really know Michael Campbell from a bar of soap, right? No,
01:00:25
no. I mean he just he was another player but you know he he he knew the camaraderie between us Kiwis and yeah
01:00:31
look it was just an incredible moment. I mean, Michael took down Tiger in the power, you know, in the when he was at
01:00:37
the power of his, you know, the peak of his form and that was an unbelievable achievement. And um, you know, it's
01:00:42
incredible. Like, that's the last major wouldn't have had. We've only had two
01:00:46
and, you know, we're producing a lot of good players and, you know, who's to
01:00:49
know when the next one is, but you know, 1963 to 2005 and here we are 2025. That's another 20 years gone past. It
01:00:56
just shows you how difficult major champions are to win. you know, for Michael to do what he did was a special
01:01:02
moment in sporting history here in New Zealand. Yeah. What's Cambo doing these
01:01:06
days? It's a name you don't hear much about. Eh, yeah, Michael has a uh golf
01:01:10
academy in Spain. Um uh where he teaches, the Michael Campbell Golf Academy. And uh more recently, he
01:01:16
started to get back playing a little bit on the European Senior Tour. Um they have a a tour. It's not a big tour
01:01:22
unlike the uh Champions Tour in America, but he has got back to playing a little
01:01:26
bit and and actually playing a little, you know, found a little bit of form last year in a number of tournaments.
01:01:31
So, yeah, it's great to see. Um something else in the book, um the the sheep shagger stuff. Have Have you um
01:01:40
So, you've got like a a man cave at home, like a is it a billion billyard room? Yeah. Yeah. Um have you got a the
01:01:47
photo there of the sheep shagger photo? Yeah. I don't know where, you know, we
01:01:50
always had the, you know, someone else gave Tiger the, you know, the sheep jag and thing and I always said to don't
01:01:56
knock until you've tried it. And somehow he managed to get a photo put together of myself and a
01:02:06
sheep. Um, referring to his comments. I mean, we have a great laugh, but we had a great laugh over that. But, you know,
01:02:13
oh, you used to call me you sheep shag and mother this and you sheep shag and mother that. And my reply, don't knock
01:02:18
until you try. God. Yeah. And he even um at a key moment during the 2008 US Open um he called you
01:02:27
a sheep shagger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was kind of wishing him to maybe perhaps not continue on the
01:02:34
tournament. I thought it could be detrimental to his career if he kept going given the pain that he was in and
01:02:39
the agony and so forth. But that Yeah. So that sheep shag and explicit came out there very very loudly and clear.
01:02:48
That's so good. E that's awesome. Um there's a quote from you in the book. Um
01:02:52
Tiger knew he was in great form and I felt the only thing that could stop him from winning was poor catting.
01:02:58
Yeah. So sometimes um I I I worked out this through time and keeping all my statistics. It was an
01:03:08
incredible statistic that if Tiger hit 65% of the fairways and didn't three putt, you couldn't beat him. And all my
01:03:16
records would tell me that uh that I compiled that that was 100% true. So sometimes when he was in, you know,
01:03:23
unbelievable sublime form, the only thing that could prevent him winning would be would be me, you know, if if
01:03:29
there was some bad club selection, some bad advice. So even that sometimes put a
01:03:34
an added pressure on because there was a lot of weeks where you know if you watched him in the practice rounds and
01:03:40
practice on the practice um there was just no way that he wasn't going to win
01:03:44
the tournament. And the best example that was at the 2000 US Open I mean he he if there was ever a time when you say
01:03:51
you've got a golf ball of string that was it practice was just absolutely out
01:03:56
of this world. He was hitting every shot absolutely perfect, hitting it to exactly how he was trying to do. Uh the
01:04:03
practice rounds was just out of this world how good he played. And you know, then it becomes a case of the only thing
01:04:09
can happen here is if I make some bad mistakes here and so forth. And uh Adam Scott when he won the Masters in 2013
01:04:16
was exactly the same way. He played his practice rounds. There were only two nine-hole practice rounds. Uh, and we
01:04:23
myself and his coach talked him into only playing nine holes to the fact that we didn't want him to lose his form. It
01:04:29
was so good. And it's the same thing. Then you're under pressure yourself
01:04:32
because you're the only one that can change things here. You know, he's going
01:04:36
to hit the shots. You got to make sure you give him the right advice and you got the right club in your hand. So that
01:04:40
adds a different dimension sometimes when that happens. That's a nauseating amount of pressure. Oh, look, you know,
01:04:46
there's pressure anyway. when you like catting for Tiger, his only a successful week is just a win and
01:04:52
if you don't win and and and you you go a number of weeks or a long period without winning and you know we had a
01:04:58
couple of streaks there or periods during the majors where he didn't win a major for some time and that and you
01:05:02
know that pressure was getting more and more every time. So you know catting for
01:05:06
a guy like that is um you know incredible amount of pressure. Yes. So there's um a phrase I learned in
01:05:12
the book um it's called a catty's trophy which is um the flag. So you you win a
01:05:17
tournament and you get to you've got like a little implement like a little tool 10 mil spanninner ring spanninner.
01:05:23
So you can't just like rip it off or cut it off. You need to Yeah. Well, I mean
01:05:27
it it was uh you know you're with a good golfer if you need to carry that spanner. Well, that was a bit of a joke
01:05:31
there because quite often when a player wins a tournament um you you'll read in
01:05:36
a lot of publications what's in the player's bag from that week and you know
01:05:40
I was the only one that was actually carrying a 10 mil ring spanner because I needed it so often. But yeah, a caddy's
01:05:46
trophy. The player gets a trophy and a caddy's trophy is the flag on the 18th
01:05:50
green which you um take off and that's your trophy. So um you know I've collected those from day dot. So you got
01:05:57
so many of these things framed. Um well I had a I had them all up on the wall but you know they just kept coming in.
01:06:07
They were coming and coming and coming. You know I've had 150 wins as a caddy.
01:06:11
So there's no there's no wall big enough to put them up in. But um more recently,
01:06:16
so I've taken all the major championship flags and had those um done very nicely
01:06:22
and then all the remaining flags put into a big binding book. Um you know, starting back and then just
01:06:29
through the years. Um, yeah. So, I've put them all into a book, but the ones
01:06:34
the most meaningful ones, um, you know, when I first started catting, you know, you you don't know that what you're
01:06:40
going to what's ahead of you as far as you just hope that one day you might be
01:06:44
able to get to America and one day you might be able to caddy in the majors. That's what you're always hoping to do.
01:06:48
Um, and then, you know, time goes on, you're actually catting in the majors,
01:06:53
then you start winning them and then, you know, you've won all of them multiple times. It's, you know, even now
01:06:57
when I'm thinking about it's like, jeez. I mean that's just unbelievable. Um
01:07:01
there's no other caddies won all four of them and I've won all four of them
01:07:04
multiple times. Um you know three or more all of them. Um and yeah so I have all those flags and and Tigers signed
01:07:13
them all obviously and and and most of them have a comment written on them uh about that tournament. Um, so you know,
01:07:20
a lot of fun uh memories to have those all in one room to look at uh and and reflect and you know, quite often I'll
01:07:27
just go into that room and on my own and just sort of turn around and it's um you
01:07:31
know, you look back to a young kid that started catting at Paumu and just catting for members of the golf course
01:07:38
which I absolutely cherish for, you know, 50 cents a round and became $2 around and I sort of had a knack for it
01:07:43
and then there some guys might pay me $5 and the other caddies were getting $2 and then there was a guy that offered me
01:07:48
to pay me $20 and the other caddies are still getting two and this cing this cadding is fun. And then you know you
01:07:54
look back then um you know to to go on to do uh to caddy on the tour. Yeah. One of these um one of these flags on these
01:08:03
Caddy's trophies is signed to Stevie. Thank you for your friendship. Love always Tiger Woods. Um yeah. How do you
01:08:11
like when you when you look at that now? If you're in that room and you look at
01:08:13
that now and you read that message like how how does it make you feel now? Oh yeah. Like I mean amazingly, you know,
01:08:19
one thing when these notes started going back and forth between Tiger, you know,
01:08:25
I just sign off as cheers Steve or have a good night Steve or he always put love
01:08:29
on it. And uh you know, I found that quite interesting between two two guys. But um we look we had a unique bond. I I
01:08:36
know that he had the utmost respect for what I was doing and and I had the utmost respect what he was doing. And
01:08:42
yeah, when I step into the room and and look at some of those notes, um it's
01:08:46
very, you know, it's very meaningful. And look, as I've alluded to earlier,
01:08:51
when players and caddies fall out, particularly players at that level, you just go your own way. That's just what
01:08:56
it is. I mean, it's like a transaction in a way. Yeah. I mean, it's like you
01:09:01
look at rugby coaches, you know, that they coach teams and that and then they go and they have nothing to do. That's
01:09:05
just it's just it's not anything personal. It's just what happens. Um,
01:09:10
and you know, I I kept the relationship between Tiger and I, particularly on the
01:09:16
golf course, as business-like as it could be. And and I spent, you know, I spent a great time, a lot of time off
01:09:22
the course with him in buildups to major championships. But, you know, I I resisted all the time when like Tiger
01:09:28
would constantly ask uh my wife and I to come out to dinner with him and we'd
01:09:32
always have other plans cuz I didn't want to get too friendly with the guy because I wanted to make it, you know, I
01:09:38
made that mistake with Greg. I got too friendly with him. But when you make it a work, a work proposition every day and
01:09:44
that you're going to be more committed to what you do. And if you get a little
01:09:47
bit friendly and become too matey, um you won't have the same, you know, drive. I don't believe.
01:09:54
But you sort of did end up falling in the same trap as what you did with Greg like Yeah. In the book you sort of talk
01:09:59
about that. So you and Greg Norman hit, you know, they sort of crossed this line
01:10:02
and became like really good friends and then the same thing did end up happening
01:10:05
with with Tiger. Um yes. So like like messages like that on the flags. I don't know. I suppose you can
01:10:13
look back now like enough times passed and feel like a sense of pride with it or whatever. But there must have been a
01:10:18
period of time there where it felt bittersweet or something or you know look amazingly you would think that Dom
01:10:24
and everybody would think that but just having you know ci picked up tiger's bag
01:10:32
um you know there's no time frame or no definite time frame when you cry for
01:10:38
somebody and you know when you split um that's the way it is. So no, there was
01:10:42
there was never any of that thought um which probably a lot of people would find surprising and that you know it was
01:10:47
surprising that we did split and there was a little bit of you maybe two or three weeks where oh you know I didn't
01:10:53
see that coming. Um but no that's just that's the relationship between a player
01:10:57
and a golfer that's just sorry a player and a caddy that's the way it is. Maybe
01:11:01
I'm just too sentimental. I'd still want a birthday card from time to time or
01:11:06
just how you doing just checking in text once in a while. Yeah. What about other
01:11:10
memorabilia? So, you've got like um uh a a Quantis red bag from Greg Norman, some
01:11:17
signed bank notes from Jack Nicholas. Yeah, just Oh, little tippets here and there. You know, each player that I've
01:11:22
key for um I've kept one of their bags and it's always uh from a winning
01:11:26
tournament and just, you know, got a bag from Greg and Ray Floyd and a couple of
01:11:31
bags from Tiger um and a bag there from Adam and that. So yeah, just a a good showpiece in in
01:11:39
the memorabilia room and um yeah, some they had a when Jack played his last round or last time he was going to
01:11:46
compete at St. Andrews, the Royal Bank of Scotland had a commemorative£5 note which I make sure I get my hands on a
01:11:52
few of those and um you know was fortunate enough to know Jack well enough to get him to sign one of those.
01:11:57
So um I hope I never get to the point where I need to spend that £5. Yeah. Well, what's he like? The Golden
01:12:06
Bear. Yeah. Oh, look, he you know, he he he was like, you know, when you compare,
01:12:10
you know, as I mentioned before, you got Arnold and Jack and Tiger and Phil. That's probably, you know, the good
01:12:15
analysis of comparison, but um and Jack was a hugely serious competitor just like Tiger was. But, um an incredible
01:12:23
wealth of knowledge and um you know, I was fortunate enough to when I was caring for Greg, Greg played a lot of
01:12:30
practice rounds with Jack and and that was who he looked up to. So, you know, I was never afraid to quiz. Um, I think a
01:12:36
lot of these guys always had a a little bit of respect me cuz I'm a kid from New
01:12:40
Zealand and I I never had any problem quizzing these guys. Didn't matter who
01:12:44
they were. If I if there's some knowledge or question I want to ask these guys, I was never shy about asking
01:12:49
it. So, um, that was always a good thing. Yeah. But he he was great. Had quite a bit to do with him. He was a
01:12:55
fantastic player. My brother actually got to caddy from him a couple of times in Australia as well. So, that was fun.
01:13:00
A little bit of a connection there as well. Unreal. So, so all this who who gets to go into the memorabilia room?
01:13:06
Oh, not too many people. It's my That's my man cave. And yeah, when we get a few
01:13:11
different guests come over that um I guess couple of beers for a look. Yeah, there's a pool table and that. Yeah,
01:13:19
it's a it's a Yeah, it's a funny thing, you know. It's a very reflective kind of
01:13:24
room and um you know like in years as every year goes by it's probably get a
01:13:29
you know a little bit more teary eyed I guess. Yeah. Are you quite an emotional guy? I feel like you you would never
01:13:35
have been an emotional guy. No certainly wasn't when I was cing but uh when it's
01:13:39
all been said and done and you you know time to reflect on is is huge. You know like I said I was always it's next week
01:13:46
next week next week. You know Tiger won the US Open in 2000 there by 15 shots. one of the greatest ever performances.
01:13:53
Uh when you came out of the recording room, the first thing he quizzed me about was the um what was the story
01:14:00
about, you know, the the last hole there with the one golf ball left. You know, we had a great joke about that. The
01:14:05
second thing he said to me, Dom, uh I'm going to play even better at St. Andrews. That was the next tournament
01:14:09
he's playing was the open championship. I'm going to play even ever I'm going to
01:14:13
play even better than I did this week, Steve. I need you to get over there and know every inch every blade of grass in
01:14:19
that golf course. So instead of coming off the 18th green a and I had a couple of mates there and I was returning back
01:14:25
to New Zealand. Um instead of having this triumphant um victory and a celebration to go with it, you know, now
01:14:31
I'm under the pump now cuz he's just told me he's going to play even better
01:14:35
and I know he's going to practice and he wants to win that tournament to you know
01:14:38
cuz he he's you know got his eyes on this grand slam thing. Um so there's no,
01:14:43
you know, there's no relaxation. you know, I came back to New Zealand for a couple of weeks and and I'm just re, you
01:14:48
know, going over the course day and night in my sleep thinking about the course and how he's going to play the I
01:14:53
mean, so it was just relentless amount of pressure. I feel like you thrived on it though as
01:14:59
well as as well as what he did. Yeah. You know, so you sort of like completely bought into his vision or maybe you were
01:15:04
built the same way. So you weren't like, "Fuck man, just give me a break. Let's
01:15:06
have some champagne and enjoy this moment." You were like dialed in as well. Correct. Yeah. And and look, you
01:15:12
know, I I I know admittedly I've said this to my wife and that, you know, you
01:15:15
know, I probably as a husband and as a father, I probably faltered there for a little bit because I I brought into this
01:15:21
picture um of Tiger winning, you know, 19 possibly more major championships. And I had that that was what kept me
01:15:28
going. I had that that moment. I could I could see that moment in my head, if you
01:15:32
know what I mean. And then when that p when that picture got smashed, um it was hard to carry on. Um but yeah, so
01:15:43
your your um your other passion uh Speedway. So there was this accident in January 2005 where you um broke ribs um
01:15:49
and had a a hand hand injury that was so severe there was like bones sticking out. Um now you don't have to be a golf
01:15:56
expert to know that a hand is fairly important for a caddy. Um, do when something like that happens, like do you
01:16:03
sort of get told off by Tiger's management or anything? Like Steve, maybe you should watch what you're doing
01:16:07
in your downtime or No. Tiger Tiger thought it was great that I was an adrenaline junkie and he even the so the
01:16:13
story behind that that was on a Saturday night at Bay Park Speedway. He was playing the next week in Hawaii and the
01:16:21
first thing that the surgeon told me um following I had to have my um finger sewn back on. I I del gloved my finger
01:16:31
and I had to have my finger sewn back on. Um and when I was left the hospital, these two things you can't do. One is
01:16:37
fly into a swim with your broken ribs. I didn't say a word, but that was um on
01:16:42
Saturday night, released from hospital Sunday morning. Monday morning I'm on a
01:16:46
flight to Hawaii and the first thing I did went to Hawaii I went for a swim and you know what I felt much
01:16:52
better for it and when I told Tiger he just said you're just unbelievable you're a savage the salt
01:17:00
water would have been good for it you'd think abs well no it was the rib the rib
01:17:03
thing and and oddly enough um after swimming I thought the ribs felt better than they did so so much for the
01:17:09
doctor's advice so then um yeah April 2006 there's a great story in book um
01:17:15
Tiger Catti for you the morning of your wedding. So bunch of boys went out for a
01:17:21
pre-wedding um round of golf and um he he cied for you. How was he as a caddy? Is he all right? Oh no. Yeah, we that
01:17:29
was um that was fantastic like you know to have Tiger in my home club Southhead Golf Club and u you know we kept it as
01:17:35
quiet as we can and um to have him you know my mates out there playing and he's
01:17:39
carrying the bag and winding them all up was pretty good fun. Yeah, that must have been a like a huge
01:17:45
like buzz, you know, for you to do for your mates that were there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We by the time we came back
01:17:51
round to the clubhouse, there's a hole by the clubhouse. Um, and there's, you
01:17:55
know, a number of people had cottoned on the Tiger Woods was out on the golf course. So, um, people were very good.
01:18:01
They did they did they respected what was going on, but there was a number of people gathered around the clubhouse and
01:18:05
there's a whole the 12th hole tea off right by the clubhouse. And, you know,
01:18:10
not people, you know, Tiger have a hit. Tiger had a Tiger have a hit. So he pulls out a club. It was a 3-wood and
01:18:16
it's a par four. It's about 300 m and just knocked straight on the green. No
01:18:20
practice swing, no nothing. And he turned around and said, "Is that good enough?" It was a classic Tiger moment.
01:18:26
Yeah. Cuz he he um he sort of encouraged you to propose to your wife. Yeah. Yeah.
01:18:32
He Well, wasn't that I wasn't going to propose to her, but um I guess he he
01:18:37
thought it was, you know, I don't know. It's a funny story. He he sort of
01:18:41
thought he needed me to make that leap first before he could make it. I I found that quite strange, but that's how it
01:18:47
was. And then and then he then he roasted you for a redneck proposal. Yeah. I mean, I guess that uh that was
01:18:55
pretty redneck, as he would call it. I I I put the proposal on my race car and drove and taped it to my race car in a
01:19:03
in a in a warm-up uh at one of the speedways in that. Yeah. So you you could probably think that's pretty
01:19:09
redneck. Yeah. Oh, and I love that. And you you watched um Yeah. There's something in the book which um kind of
01:19:14
gave me goosebumps. You guys you got him into rugby. You got him watching a bit of rugby together. Um he was a fan of
01:19:20
this is when Tana was leading the All Blacks. He was a big Tana fan. Yeah. So when the every year we were at the Open
01:19:26
Championship, the All Blacks would be contesting the tri series. Um so every Saturday morning um Sunday morning, the
01:19:35
All Blacks would be on TV. Um, so I was always says, "Tiger, I said, you know,
01:19:39
Tiger, you got to play good this week. The All Blacks are on TV at 9:00 in the morning that and I want need to watch
01:19:44
the whole match. So, you need to play good." So, there's always a bit of
01:19:46
banter that and he loved watching that hacker. Um, you know, Tiger got to the week after my wedding, we had a
01:19:52
celebrity stock car race and I had some celebrities and motorsport people driving stock cars and which Tiger was
01:19:58
involved and Tana was there. So Tiger got to meet Tana was a huge thing and uh you know Tana gave him a signed all
01:20:04
black jump and Tiger thought that was pretty cool and he's got that up in his
01:20:07
house. So um but yeah know he he absolutely admired watching that harker and you know he enjoyed and he
01:20:14
enjoyed watching the game and he you know we'd sit there and he'd explain a
01:20:19
little bit about it then he you know he loved it. Yeah you cuz you were quite a handy player before you discovered golf
01:20:24
and caddying. Yeah, I mean I was fortunate enough to I played for New Zealand school boys and um I played in a
01:20:30
test match or sorry as a curtain a curtain razor to a curtain raiser at Athletic Park for New Zealand school
01:20:36
boys when the British Lions played and uh all the boys that played in that game, the New Zealand team were allowed
01:20:42
into the locker rooms afterwards and I managed to get uh a pair of socks from one JPR Williams, the Lion sock. So
01:20:50
pretty special moment but yeah, no I I loved rugby like any kid growing up. I think any kid growing up here, I mean,
01:20:55
it was um you know, rugby and stock cars were the things I loved here. Not it wasn't really golf, but then um started
01:21:02
catting and yeah, the the rest is history. Um yeah, the book together we roared. Um
01:21:09
as I was getting towards the end of the book, I thought, oh, they're not going
01:21:12
to talk about they're not going to talk about the scandal, the infidelity, and
01:21:15
stuff like that. But sure enough, that is that is addressed um and it's addressed respectfully and um with, you
01:21:20
know, your side of events, which I think is really cool. and something which surprised me. So that happens. Then
01:21:26
there's a period of time where Tiger's not playing and you're sort of, you
01:21:29
know, apart and there's sort of email correspondence a little bit. Um then when you finally connect, um you you
01:21:35
sort of dress him down and give him a piece of your mind. Yeah, I thought that was important to do so and and um you
01:21:42
know, I wasn't really sure how I was going to go about that. And um I actually talked to Lori Mains a little
01:21:49
bit uh someone who I had great faith in to give me some good advice and he told me how I should go about that. And you
01:21:56
know I think there's a certain number of things need to be addressed. We don't
01:21:59
need to go into it, but there was a certain number of things to be addressed and how to go about it and I did that
01:22:03
and um yeah, it was just never quite the same returning uh after, you know, Tiger's time away from the game in that
01:22:10
period and that. But um yeah, look that it's just it's just part of it. Were you
01:22:15
were you nervous? Like um I've just finished reading the um or listening to the Ivan Clearary audio book and um he's
01:22:22
got a saying like hard conversations don't have to be hard conversations, but
01:22:25
the reality is often they are like you you know it's a there's a definite power
01:22:30
imbalance between the caddy and the golfer. You were you [ __ ] yourself before that conversation? There's not a
01:22:34
hard conversation that the difficulty in a conversation like that is how the other person's going to perceive it and
01:22:41
are they going to override you? Are they going to hear you out? you know, so you
01:22:45
when you have a conversation like that, you've got a number of things that you
01:22:47
want to address and you want to get all those points across the table, but sometimes that doesn't happen because
01:22:54
the other person goes in a completely different tangent and takes your mind away from what you were trying to
01:22:58
achieve. Uh, fortunately, Tiger, he he he listened to everything I had to say and and we sorted our situation right
01:23:04
there and then. Um, and that was on the way to his first tournament back. I we were on the plane uh heading to Augusta
01:23:11
for his first tournament back. Um, and I knew straight away, uh, when I got on the golf course that it just wasn't the
01:23:20
same. Um, that I guess, like I've mentioned, that picture had been shattered and I was seeing it through a
01:23:28
different lens and it just wasn't the same. And I knew I didn't know how long
01:23:33
it was going to last, but I knew it wasn't going to last forever at that point. Um, that's just what it is.
01:23:38
though. But from your perspective, I feel like that conversation was a very important um thing to get off your chest
01:23:44
because that time was like very difficult for you. There were like all sorts of accusations of like guilt by
01:23:50
association. Um yeah, you talk about the New Zealand media having a go at you in
01:23:55
the in the the book. Yeah, it was a a bloody It sounds like it was a challenging time. Oh, 100%. I mean, and
01:24:01
and and I concur 100%. If anybody is with somebody as much as as I was with Tiger, you would actually think that I'd
01:24:11
have some knowledge of what was going on, but he knows how hard aheaded and how um sort of stubborn I am and how my
01:24:19
morals are that I just wouldn't allow something like that to happen. Um and that's exactly what it was. And yeah, it
01:24:26
was important for me to get my message across. I did. Uh and he respected that 100%. um you know that one of the great
01:24:33
things about our bond and what made it so special is when you when someone like Tiger Woods you know he he he's looked
01:24:39
upon as you know sort of a superstar but like to me they're just he's just
01:24:43
another person I'm cing for and I don't I'm not a yes man and a lot of these
01:24:49
guys that are sportsman everyone just bows down to them and they're just yes
01:24:53
man yes sir yes sir that's not me you know I tell it like it is I do it like
01:24:58
it needs to be done and I don't sugar coat anything. So, he had the utmost respect for that.
01:25:05
Yeah. So, so that incident, it sounds like it was um sort of just a just a a one-sided dressing down, like not even
01:25:11
an argument. And um yeah, for Tiger, that was probably at the end of a fairly challenging few months where it felt
01:25:16
like the whole world was having a having a crack at him. Um yeah. Did So, did like with that in mind, like did you
01:25:22
feel a little bit guilty afterwards or Oh, no. No. This is something, you know, I talked to Lori Mains about it. when
01:25:27
would the time be right and and how would I go about it and this sort of thing and and taking that all in
01:25:31
consideration. Um but you know uh it needed to be done before I stepped back onto the golf course. So that I chose
01:25:38
the moment and and proceeded. Yeah. What what about um like previous arguments style with you two because you don't get
01:25:45
to have like a 10 11 year relationship with someone without some sort of adversity. like um did would you guys
01:25:51
get things out in the open and then just like park it and move on or was it a silent treatment thing or you get it out
01:25:58
there? I had I'd only ever addressed Tiger Down once before. We were on the we're on the golf course at Augusta and
01:26:06
we had a bit of an argument on the third TE. I'd been out in the morning and
01:26:09
scouted the golf course. So on the third TE it's a par4 and sometimes they move
01:26:13
the tea up on Sunday which makes it possible to drive it on the green. Uh I was out Sunday morning and and and and
01:26:19
noted that there's a few holes where you want to know where the tee is so that
01:26:23
you can tell the player a couple of par three T's. You want to tell them is it
01:26:26
on the front front tee or the back tee so they can have a shot. You can tell them because you can go out there,
01:26:31
you've got the pin placement, you know exactly how far the shot is. And you can
01:26:34
tell the guy, okay, uh the fourth hole is one of those holes, you know, how far the fourth hole is playing today, how
01:26:38
far the 12th hole is playing today, where the tea is, and so they can hit those shots on the range and practice.
01:26:44
Uh, so the third TE was moved up and um I told Tiger that in the range and there
01:26:48
was no conversation about it on the range. I just said, "Hey, they moved the
01:26:51
tea up in three today. You can knock it on the green." And we got there and uh
01:26:55
he didn't want to hit driver and I just, you know, he was at the time he was, I
01:26:59
think, four shots back and it was, you know, he needed to hit driver. You can get it on the green. I didn't see why he
01:27:03
didn't want to. It was an easy shot, big wide fairway. I mean, nothing, you know,
01:27:08
that's if you if you don't hit a good shot, you end up left and okay, every
01:27:12
player took driver that day and he didn't want to. And anyway, he ended up taking driver cuz I coached him into it
01:27:16
and he hit a terrible shot. Absolute [ __ ] shot over into the right trees made bogey and basically that was the end of
01:27:22
the tournament and he was bitter and he was carrying on carrying on carrying on and he was sulking away and carrying on
01:27:29
and you know reading me the ride at then we got up the ninth hole. It's a big wide
01:27:34
fairway, so I didn't think anything about possibly anyone hearing what I was
01:27:40
having to say, but amazingly one media person did. But I dress them down and and like gave him an absolute earful. Um
01:27:48
a and you do so knowing that if he takes it the wrong way, he might fire you after the round. But it needed to be
01:27:53
said and I did. And uh after the round, he said, "Hey, thanks very much for
01:27:58
that. I deserve that." And it was good. But once again, and and but one meaty
01:28:02
guy for some I don't know how he heard me. I mean, I must have been louder than
01:28:06
I thought because I gave him a good bollocking. Um and then of course, you know, the next the very following day,
01:28:11
oh, you know, the the relationship between Steve and Tiger's nearly over this, that, and the other. It's like,
01:28:16
oh, here we go. Sometimes a rigorous debate debate is healthy and it can't be taken out of
01:28:21
context. Yeah. Yeah. But um he he truly respected that and and and that's what
01:28:25
one of the things why we got on so good because nobody else in his organization would do that. He's tiger, which I'm not
01:28:30
going, you know, they the people just don't do that. Yeah. And I I don't know if you
01:28:35
necessarily appreciate the amount of courage it has to have these difficult conversations, you know, with with
01:28:41
someone like Tiger that's um surrounded by by Yesmen. You are older than him,
01:28:45
but not not like older older like you. You're not like old enough to be his dad
01:28:49
or anything. You're slightly older, I guess. Um yeah. Where did that cat come from?
01:28:54
that sort of I don't know that moral compass or just that that sense of you doing what's right and saying saying
01:29:00
what needs to be said regardless of the consequences. Tell it like it is. I mean
01:29:03
that's just you know you learn that in school. You it's a school of hard
01:29:06
knocks. You just tell it like it is. I mean that's just um I I guess if I had
01:29:11
to put my finger on it um you when I was cing for Greg he, you know, he he was always upfront and just told it like it
01:29:17
is. I mean he was he was very controversial throughout his whole career but he just told it like it is.
01:29:22
And you know, I guess I probably learned from that. You just tell it like it is.
01:29:25
And I didn't, you know, walking up that ninth hole, I I said to myself, you know, this might be the last time I g a
01:29:30
gusta, but this guy needs to be told he needs to be put in his place. And I did it.
01:29:35
It's so awesome. That's so God, you must be proud of that. Oh yeah. And that that
01:29:40
you know that makes your bond even greater because you know, Tiger knows at the time that I was right. He needed to
01:29:46
hit driver on that hole. if he was going to win the tournament that Sunday, he needed to possibly try and knock it on
01:29:51
the green there and make three or four. You know, I mean, he hit a [ __ ] shot. You can't blame me for hitting a [ __ ]
01:29:55
shot. It was a terrible shot. Um, and if he was going to win the tournament, he he knows at the end of the day when he
01:30:00
thinks back, you know, there was no reason not to hit a driver. Um, and I was right and he he deserved a good
01:30:07
bollockin because he carried on like a spare chop, a pork chop for, you know, six or seven holes.
01:30:13
So, um the um the firing um comes sort of after that. Um we talked about that in the podcast last year. So, Tiger was
01:30:21
out injured. Uh you asked him if you could um caddy for this guy Adam Scott. Uh Tiger said yes and then he changed
01:30:27
his mind. Um something I didn't realize until I read the book. So, your wife
01:30:30
Kirsty, she she told you she thought that was a bad idea. It would end badly. Yeah. So, um look, if I if I had have
01:30:38
ever changed one thing in my whole canning career, that would be it. I should have listened to Kirsty then. I
01:30:42
mean, yeah. I just Or always should always listen to the wife. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, look. I just, you know, I didn't uh
01:30:50
I hadn't caddy for a while and um there was some uncertainty whether Tiger was going to play um at the 2011
01:31:00
uh US Open. And I'd I left here on the Saturday under the intention that he was
01:31:06
playing in the tournament and I took my father-in-law and another friend with me. And so we'd flown to the west coast
01:31:12
to Los Angeles and upon arriving there I find out he's not playing in the tournament. Um
01:31:19
and within an hour or so uh I got a call from Adam Scott and said could you come
01:31:24
car for me? So I ran it by Tiger said yeah no problem. So we carried on to Washington DC and then the next thing I
01:31:30
get a message from Tiger's manager saying Tiger would rather you not cry in the in the US Open for Adam. Um and and
01:31:37
when I look back I understand why at the time I didn't give it enough thought but
01:31:40
you know I'm a sort of loyal sort of bloke and I told him yes and I didn't
01:31:43
you know Mark sort of said well you know might mark the end of the road for you and at the time I thought well you know
01:31:49
why would it mark the end of the road I'm just going to go and caddy for a guy
01:31:52
for a week I'm already here I brought my father-in-law and a friend over to watch
01:31:55
the tournament it's going to be a bit funny to go to the tournament and not be
01:31:58
cattying in it you know and they're coming to watch and I'm not going to
01:32:01
walk around and my wife said no if a tiger doesn't want you to caddy you shouldn't c and I should have listened
01:32:06
to it because, you know, arguably I'd probably still be crying from to this day. But, um, yeah, it was just at the
01:32:12
time I made the wrong decision and and and that's that's where it all unfolded.
01:32:16
So, um, that's just way it is. Yeah. With the reflection of time, like, do you think if it wasn't then it would
01:32:24
have been it would have been something shortly after or Oh, look, I I I knew when I first went back to the first
01:32:30
tournament that that I just didn't have the same feeling about it. Um and and
01:32:36
who knows how long it was going to last, but um yeah. Hey, look, you know, it happened then and that's the way I just
01:32:44
didn't see that coming. But yeah, you was that a confusing period for you after that? Like just being being so
01:32:50
must be weird like just being so close with someone and then it's like a steep
01:32:53
drop off a cliff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it was Yeah, it was. But then, you know, I straight onto the bag of Adam Scott and
01:32:59
and then um you know, so you you you you turn your focus from one player and then
01:33:05
it was it was Adam was a guy that I had great respect for and often wondered why
01:33:09
he didn't compete more better or play better in the major championship. So that became a new goal. So straight
01:33:15
away, you know, that the goal of the the the the dream or the goal of trying to eclipse Jack's record of 18 majors,
01:33:22
catting for Tiger, now it was a complete new goal is, okay, I'm Cing Van Scott.
01:33:27
He's never won a major. How can we get together and win a major championship?
01:33:31
So, that was a uh a real energizer and and provided great uh motivation and desire to try and get him over the line
01:33:39
in a major championship. So that was a really um you know really great period in my career cing for Adam. Yeah. And
01:33:47
yeah you were bursting with pride whenever I did well too. E like yeah it's it's hard to explain but maybe it's
01:33:54
um like an Australasian thing or Well yeah no no no Australians won Augusta and I'd go for Greg and Greg just that's
01:34:04
all he wanted to do was adorn that green jacket. He just that's the tournament
01:34:08
that meant the most to him. That's the one he wanted to win. and and and it eluded him. Uh and to be on the bag for
01:34:14
the first Australian and to this point the only Australian uh to put on that green jacket. Um you know look
01:34:22
Australian New Zealanders we're all together. You know we're down under Australasians Oceanana what however you
01:34:28
want to describe us. Um that was just a you know a huge amount of pride to be catting for the first Australian or the
01:34:34
first person from Australasia to put that green jacket on. Um it was it was uh an incredible amount of um thrill
01:34:42
that was. And it was kind of ironic cuz the first person that called me, not the
01:34:48
first person, but first person I actually spoke to when I answered my phone was Greg.
01:34:54
Yeah. So um that tournament had a like a little asterisk to it. Yeah. How was it?
01:34:59
How was that for Greg? Yeah. Well, he bit of sweet. Yeah. No, no, because the conversation was because, you know, Adam
01:35:07
had that part to win the tournament and Greg read my lips. So, you know, Adam said to me, Stevie, what do you think?
01:35:14
Cup out to the right, right to left, put cup out the right. And and my exact comment were that's not even [ __ ]
01:35:20
close. It's two and a half cups with a bit of speed. So, you know, he's read it
01:35:24
this much and and I've read it like double and a bit more than what he's
01:35:28
read it. and Greg read my lips and um you know Tiger uh sorry Adam knocked that putt straight in. Um you know it
01:35:37
was a huge moment because that that's what makes a good caddy. Most people are
01:35:40
just going to agree it's the Masters. You you don't want to give guy a bit of
01:35:44
advice. He's got a putt to win the Masters. You're going to give him some
01:35:46
advice and you're going against what he says. That's what makes a great caddy. I
01:35:50
if if I'm wrong I'm wrong and it cost him the Masters. Well, so be it. But I
01:35:54
mean, you know, I'm not going to not stand there and not give my two cents worth. and I did. He knocked it in, won
01:36:00
the Masters. So, it was uh Yeah, it was a m You know, there's some moments you'll never ever forget. And that
01:36:05
that's certainly one that's right up there. Got I can't imagine the anxiety you're
01:36:10
going through when he's lining up that part after like listening to your advice. There's really Look, it's funny.
01:36:17
You would think that, Dom, but you know, whether it's the first hole Thursday or
01:36:21
it's the second half of playoff for the Masters, you just do your job the same.
01:36:25
You don't take the situation into account. It doesn't matter if it's if
01:36:29
it's just playing in the New Zealand Open or it's the US Open, you know,
01:36:32
small tournament, big tournament, middle of the road tournament. You do everything the same. The process the
01:36:37
same. You can't let the situation get on top of you. And that's what I was always
01:36:41
able to do. You know, I didn't think think about what was ahead, what could be, what might be in the moment and do
01:36:49
your job the same as you would do, you know, if I was cing for you or catting in the proam or cing for anybody. Just
01:36:55
do the job the same. So the moment never gets a hold of you. Um I've seen so many
01:37:00
player and caddy failures coming down the stretch because the moment can get too much but you treat like from the
01:37:07
first hole Thursday to the 72nd hole Sunday and whatever becomes after that the same. Um you're not really going to
01:37:13
get um you know you're not going to feel the pressure. I mean I'm not hitting the
01:37:18
stroke. I'm just giving you the best available that I can give. But keeping statistics and notes, I had
01:37:24
a note in my book that that putt. So I have a little hole drawn where that is and I've got an arrow which means over
01:37:31
here if you're putting that direction that putt breaks more than it looks. The
01:37:35
ironic thing is Adam Scott would never have had that putt because you that's a
01:37:40
pin that you don't challenge on Sunday at Augusta. If you ask Adam Scott what's
01:37:45
the best golf shot he's ever hit would be a second shot there and he wanted to
01:37:50
hit a seven iron there and just hit it 20 foot under the hole. Keep it under the hole where Cabrera hit it and I said
01:37:55
no let's get it back to the hole there. Let's take what we we we called it a
01:37:59
hold off six is how we describe the shot. So it's a six iron like a 3/4 six iron. Uh it's called a holdoff shot. Um
01:38:06
basically what that means is you you you prevent the ball from going left. You just you know hold on hard with the left
01:38:12
hand. It's a golf term. uh and get that ball back there. But I knew that he would never have had that
01:38:18
part. So I had that note in my book from the 80s right from caring for Greg and we're now 2013. That's how long I've had
01:38:24
that, you know, cuz I keep all the notes and I knew that he wouldn't know that
01:38:29
and and I knew it breaks more than it looks, you know. So that's keeping notes
01:38:33
and keeping data and keeping every possible thing. Yeah. Would it be ever worth releasing these these um like
01:38:40
caddy notes as some sort of a book or would they not make sense to anyone else? Oh, it would only make sense to
01:38:46
people that were playing in those things, but you'd be giving away all your all your IP all your IP.
01:38:52
Um yes. So 2021 um Tiger had this big car crash in um California. I think he was like going from a hotel to a golf
01:39:01
course. Um so you hadn't spoken to him in like 10 years then. I think you you
01:39:05
bumped into him on a practice range in 2019 and it was a little frosty, a little icy, a little awkward. So, where
01:39:11
were you in 2021? Were you on the road with Adam Scott or were you at home? How did you hear about that car crash? Yeah.
01:39:16
Um, I I was actually in uh I was at my uh our house in the States at that particular time and that. So, you know,
01:39:22
it was obviously deep concern because there was no forthcoming information straight away as to what his health
01:39:28
predicament was going to be. But um yeah, I mean look, it's a real sad moment cuz it's obviously impacted
01:39:34
his possibility of continuing on with the march to to eclipse Jack's record,
01:39:39
which I hoped he did. Um I just whether you know up until that accident happening, I think there was still some
01:39:46
chance and that dream was still alive. And you know, even though I wasn't on
01:39:50
the bag, I was just so hoping that he would, you know, so that if he did get to 19, I could say, well, you know, I
01:39:56
was on I was on the bag for 13 of those 19. Um but um I think that accident you know obviously had a a big impact on his
01:40:05
on his um future and and his in his body. So yeah it was sad but hey look uh when you hear the description of the
01:40:13
accident it probably could have been worse. So there's always a favorable side to any outcome and and and um it
01:40:18
was you know from what I read and what I saw of the pictures it was a pretty severe accident. It could have been
01:40:23
worse. So yeah. But is it a surreal feeling for you? here's this here's this
01:40:27
this this guy that you you know you love and you you care about deeply. Um and I
01:40:31
suppose the instinct is to you know reach out or send a message or send a bouquet or whatever it happens to be and
01:40:36
you there's this barrier where you just can't sort of get to him. Oh, like you
01:40:41
know I can get to him through his management all the time and that but I mean you know me and how many other
01:40:45
people can get um so forth but yeah look I mean you know like whatever happens like you know Tiger's mother passed away
01:40:53
recently and um you know I shared a great bond with his his mother. She was fantastic and um you know deeply
01:41:01
saddened as well. So it's just life and that's what happens. You're so
01:41:06
philosophical about these things e oh look yeah it is. I mean, you know, you you you know, there's there's that
01:41:13
thing, Dom, and you would know very well when you you know that half the the glass half full, half empty. You know,
01:41:18
I'm a half full man, just like you are. Yeah, I love that. Does odd you mentioned before about Jack's record,
01:41:25
actually, you've mentioned it a couple of times. Does it does it annoy you that
01:41:28
you and Tiger or even Tiger um didn't get to it because that was like the big
01:41:32
goal you guys had. I was very clear from day one. I I I dreamt about it all the time, Dom, every day. Um, maybe not so
01:41:39
much when I was cing, but every day when I was home in New Zealand, I I thought about that every time. I had a clear
01:41:44
picture. I could I could picture it. And I guess in my in my dreams and in in the
01:41:50
in the vision that I had, I could see it happening at Augusta. And I I I'd played
01:41:54
it over and over my head. And that's what motivated me every week, every month, every year when I was counting
01:41:58
for Tiger is and every time when he ticked one of those majors off, it was one step up the ladder to that next one.
01:42:04
And I didn't have any doubt uh that he was going to do it. and and and uh and I
01:42:08
think the rest of the world thought he was going to do it and that was what kept me going. And you know that the
01:42:12
moment that picture in my head was shattered, it just was never the same. Mhm. Yeah. It's unlikely to happen now,
01:42:18
isn't it? Oh, you know, it can't happen now. So, it's and I don't believe
01:42:23
there'll ever be another player that'll get to the position where we would even
01:42:27
talk about it. Domin, that's just how special he was. I mean, you know, fast
01:42:31
forward 50 years down the line, you know, there'll be no player that we'll
01:42:35
be talking about. um that it'll be in that position to say whether Jack breaks
01:42:39
Jack's record. There's just there won't be another athlete that come along or
01:42:43
not another golfer that come along that could be so dominant in the major championships like he was.
01:42:50
What what about legacy? Um yeah, like how how do you think Tiger and and particularly your partnership with Tiger
01:42:56
will go down in history? Oh, look. I mean, you know, I mean, however you look at it, you can
01:43:03
look at your partnership, you know, you can, however you look at it, we won more
01:43:06
tournaments together than anyone in any other partnership and won more majors in
01:43:10
our partnership. So, that speaks volumes in itself right there. However you want
01:43:14
to look at it, but you can't take away the amount of tournaments we won together and in particular the amount of
01:43:19
majors we won together. Yeah. It was like two It was like a perfect storm, eh, like two worlds colliding at the
01:43:24
right time. It was Yeah. One of those amazing partnerships. Yeah. Not surprised you get misty eyed when you go
01:43:29
into your your billiards room. It's it's really cool to reflect on this stuff,
01:43:33
eh? Oh, yeah. Look, um but like you know, like as I said to you, um you know, people I often get asked uh in a
01:43:41
in a in a public arena, I'm speaking whatever, um what's your greatest moment? And you know, most people are
01:43:47
looking for a story from one of the golf tournaments. But when I tell them about
01:43:50
my wife and I have been involved with the Starship Hospital and making that donation, um, you know, you're very
01:43:56
fortunate to be able to give that money away. And I've never done catting for
01:44:00
the money. I've never lived for the money. I, you know, I I don't live extravagantly. It's never ever been
01:44:05
about the money. It's been about catting, but uh, and enjoying the job. But to be able to be fortunate enough to
01:44:11
be able to do something like that and make a significant impact on other people's lives, that's the best moment
01:44:17
um my wife and I will ever forget. Yeah. Yeah. I know you just said it's it's never about the money. And in the
01:44:24
book you talk about how for Tiger it was never about the money. Like he'd never
01:44:27
look at the at the the board afterwards to see how much prize money he got. But um were you aware of that stuff? So you
01:44:33
were getting 10% of whatever he won. So if you're going down the 18th fairway on
01:44:38
Sunday and you know he's going to win, are you thinking he gets a million dollars so I'm going to get $100,000 I
01:44:44
can buy a new saloon car? It it just never never ever you know never it was never from day dot it was never about
01:44:52
the money. I mean it's just you know money doesn't make you happy. You know
01:44:57
having love and having family make you happy. Money doesn't mean anything. I
01:45:00
mean it's never meant anything to me and that's why I've had no problem giving a
01:45:03
lot of it away. Yeah. Were you you were financially secure, I guess, before you even met
01:45:08
Tiger. Oh, yeah. I mean, I was fortunate. You know, Ray Floyd was very successful. Greg was very successful.
01:45:14
So, yeah. I mean, um, but like I said, you know, it's never about the money,
01:45:18
but you know, I used to, we used to love having jokes with Tiger when he'd start
01:45:22
playing badly and that he had this thing which I've mentioned in the book about
01:45:26
TWW's car wash and he said, "Well, we'll have TWW's car wash and you'll be the
01:45:30
guy cleaning the car, Steve." and and you know he he'd get on the 17th hole of
01:45:34
a tournament in three part and I'd say Jesus Christ Tiger that's a whole brand
01:45:38
new set of tires off me race car you've just cost me there we you know we'd have
01:45:41
some banter but he didn't do it for the money and I didn't do it for the money
01:45:45
you know we we did it for the love of the game and and um chasing down that ultimate goal and the um the joke TWW's
01:45:52
uh car wash that came about because you guys both like this was a hobby outside of golf you both love cleaning cars
01:45:57
which I found really odd yeah I when I first met, you know, I I I love mowing lawns and cleaning cars, which is, you
01:46:04
know, I guess that's a little strange. I mean, it's two jobs that you do that
01:46:08
when you finished, you have a very good self satisfaction when you've cleaned a
01:46:12
car. And I mean, I mean clean, I mean detailing it and mowing the lawns to perfection. And oddly enough, when I
01:46:17
first met Tiger, you know, here's a guy that's, you know, wealthy beyond belief.
01:46:21
And he loves cleaning his car. So, you know, we'd be cleaning his cars together
01:46:25
out uh at his place. And that's where the joke of TWW's car wash. You know,
01:46:29
Steve, if it goes bad, TWW's car wash and you're the man cleaning cars. Um I I said on Instagram you were
01:46:35
coming and I asked if anyone's got any questions. So there's a few random ones
01:46:38
here. Um someone wants to know um about tall poppy syndrome. It's considered to
01:46:42
be like a Kiwi or an Australasian thing, but um yeah, what are your thoughts about tall poppy syndrome like
01:46:47
internationally? Is it is it a thing in the States? No, it's a thing that's to
01:46:52
my knowledge is only in Australia and New Zealand. Yeah, it doesn't exist anywhere else.
01:46:58
Although, yeah, when Tiger had a scandal like the Yeah, the med it seemed like the media were trying to tear him down.
01:47:03
That in America, it's almost like they want to tear you down but then try and
01:47:06
build you back up. I don't know if that's tall poppy. That's just the
01:47:09
media. But no, tall poppy is something uh that to my experience and to people that I've talked about, it's just
01:47:14
something that's uh specifically evolved in Australia, New Zealand. Yeah. Yeah.
01:47:20
We need to do better with that. E Oh, we we absolutely that's something um Yeah.
01:47:24
I don't know how it how it all got started and how we can change it, but that'd be a long story for another day,
01:47:30
I guess. Part three. Uh, what's the difference between confidence and arrogance in professional sports? Well,
01:47:38
yeah. I mean, they go hand in hand because somebody that's extremely confident and and knows that they have
01:47:45
the ability to perform has some kind of arrogance to them and that is somewhat of an intimidation factor. So the the
01:47:53
arrogance and confidence comes together. Um you know someone that's got an air of
01:47:59
confidence has to have a little bit of arrogance as well. So they go hand in hand. It's not something that someone
01:48:04
tries to be arrogant but to be confidence and show some kind of arrogance uh is is is definitely uh a
01:48:12
tribute to that person's ability to know that they're going to perform. Does Steve have any regrets or anything
01:48:19
he would do differently? Oh only only one thing. Um, and that was at the um 199 I can't actually 1992 masters uh
01:48:30
with Ray Floyd. It's the only time in my 40 plus years of cadding that there's
01:48:36
something a thought that came to my head. I didn't tell Raymond and ultimately I believe I cost him winning
01:48:41
the Masters. He would have been the oldest player to win a Masters, first player at 50 to do so. And I I believe I
01:48:47
played a role in him. He lost in a playoff to Felo. Uh, and I believe if I had have said what I came into my head,
01:48:54
uh, I could have prevented that from happening. That's my only regret. Oh, did did I read about that somewhere?
01:48:58
Does he remind you of it? Um, you know, when I used to stay with him, uh, he'd
01:49:03
say, "Steve, I could have had two of these green jackets." I said, "Man,
01:49:06
they're really ugly. Why would you want two of them?" Um, if Steve could caddy for a
01:49:13
dream round, whose bag would he be hold whose bag would he be holding and who would make up the foresome? Uh my dream
01:49:19
round would be I'd be cing for Rory Maroy and he would be playing with um Adam Scott, Greg Norman, and Tiger
01:49:27
Woods. Why Rory? Why not? He's just a an unbelievable player, a guy that I love watching
01:49:36
playing golf. And um yeah, if if there was a guy that I'd like to catch for, it
01:49:40
would be him. Um what are your biggest flaws? My biggest flaws? Um, biggest flaws is I
01:49:49
don't know how to relax. Uh, I I I'm not a guy that ever sits down. I just keep
01:49:53
going, keep going, keep going. And and and that drives my family around the twist a little bit because a lot of
01:49:59
people like to sit down and relax and that uh for me um my when I go to heaven, that's when
01:50:06
I'm going to relax. So, I'm just I'm I'm just always on to the next thing. Oh,
01:50:11
heaven. E that's optimistic. Um, there's a uh I'm a bit like that. There's a term
01:50:17
for that, too. It's an active relaxer. Just means you're always like your your
01:50:20
your version of relaxation is like doing something like it's whether it's
01:50:24
detailing a car or 100%. I don't think that's a bad thing either. You You're in
01:50:28
great shape. What are you now? 62. 62. What do you do? What do you do? You still work out? You you run? Um Yeah.
01:50:33
And I I I frequent the gym or we have a gym at home, but I frequent the gym two or three days a week. I like to row,
01:50:39
like to run, like to bike, uh and do a lot of swimming. So yeah, I mean when you get older, um it's, you know, you
01:50:46
like to keep yourself in some kind of shape that that so that you can continue to do the things that you love. You
01:50:51
know, I'm still trying to pursue Speedway a little bit. I'm probably a bit old in the tooth for that, but um if
01:50:56
I when I do race, you got to be in some kind of shape. Oh, you're not too old.
01:51:00
Who's Who's the really old motor um motor racing guy? Kenny Stewart. Is it
01:51:05
Kenny Stewart? Yeah. Yeah. He's What? He's in his 80s. Yeah. Unbelievable.
01:51:09
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're you're a Sorry, Kenny Smith. Sorry. Kenny Smith. Yeah.
01:51:13
Um, what are your future goals? My future goals is to just um support my family the best I can and and basically
01:51:23
um yeah, I don't really don't have any more goals that I'm chasing. Uh just to
01:51:28
basically enjoy life now, sit back, relax, um enjoy life, and yeah, make my family happy. Speaking of your family,
01:51:37
three words that family or friends would use to describe you. Driven. Um, I say driven, motivated, and um, yeah, loving.
01:51:49
That's awesome. Are you proud of yourself? Well, I don't know if you look
01:51:53
at that. I think, you know, you're happy with what you've done. I don't know. I
01:51:57
don't like the word proud. Um, I'm just h happy to have been uh been able to do
01:52:03
what I want to do. And I think that's important in life that you should make
01:52:07
it a goal to do what you want to do. Not what you what others make you do, but to
01:52:12
do what you want to do. Well, it's all worked out all right for you, has hasn't it? Like 50 year career
01:52:18
like I mean if you pursued rugby, you wouldn't have had the longevity you could say. Yeah. No, it might have had a
01:52:24
few injuries long way. No, look Dom. Yeah. Like if you want to use the word proud. Yeah. Extremely proud and uh you
01:52:31
know, happy to be able to sit here and share my story with you. Yeah. I I'm so
01:52:35
appreciative that you reached out and uh we got together for part two of the podcast. Um hopefully this isn't this
01:52:40
isn't this isn't the end. Hopefully there's a part three. Yeah. Yeah. No,
01:52:44
look, we're Evan and I who's done we've done the book together. We're extremely
01:52:46
excited about the book. Comes out April the 1st on in in the shelves of stores and it's will be available online before
01:52:53
that. But we're we're extremely proud of it and um yeah, I think it'll give
01:52:56
people a really good insight into my time cing for Tiger. Steve Williams, you're a great New Zealander. Thanks so
01:53:02
much for coming on the podcast again, mate. Really appreciate it. Awesome, Dom. Thank you. Cheers.