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[Music] hey Dom here with a quick warning before we get into this EP of the Dom Harvey
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podcast this episode may be upsetting to some viewers it centers around uh terminal illness and assisted dying
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please view with caution this is the Tracy Hickman story hello Jessica welcome to
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my Tracy there was a that was an inside joke um we caught up yesterday I I text you and I called you trace it's a thing
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I do I abbreviate people's names um and you loathe Trace I do I hate there's
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only a couple of people who Call Me Trace who get away with it one of them because he's always called me trace and
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I should have corrected him in the early stages and I didn't so I let him get
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away with it now but most people who know me would never go there and yeah the Jessica thing you
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said to me Jessica was your preferred name yeah so when I was younger I had a cat that I called Jessica I had a VW be
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that I called Jessica I had a computer that I called Jessica I I wanted to be Jessica and for a little while I had one
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boyfriend and he called me Jessica and I kept ignoring him he was like well look
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you know if you're going to be called Jessica you've got to actually react to
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the name so um so I gave up on that yeah I I love the um the the jaxter position
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between the trivialness of this and what you're you're dealing with at the moment
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I think it's really cool it's cute um yeah so first of all let's open with a
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bit of context so um you you're currently very very unwell y um you've got terminal cancer and um
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you've executed your right to die and you're going to you're going to die on
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May 22nd which is about 3 weeks from now so it's um I've got I've met two doctors
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who've both said that I am eligible for executing the right and I've got a
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meeting later today with the first doctor again she's the one who's going
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to be actually helping me make it happen and I just need to check with her that 22nd works for her as well as long as it
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does then 22nd will be the date yeah so you and I um know each other through uh through through running we we
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don't know each other particularly well though um but we were in Boston in April
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last year for um the marathon and I had no idea you were sick um you ran last year a yes yeah I did so I um so I had
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cancer five years ago and went through treatment and pretty much you know I never felt it was completely over but
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I'd got back to running marathons again I did 100 col my first first 100 km was
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after I'd been through cancer treatment and then I did another 100 km race in in
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Australia the ultr trail Australia and I wanted to do the the six Marathon Majors I'd got four of them out
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the way and I was entered to do Tokyo in Jan in February last year or March last
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year and Boston in April last year and those I those had been entered like for a year and I started to get ill in the
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October of 22 and I kept being told it was migraine and I thought well that's not going to
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stop me running a marathon so I carried on with all the plans to travel to those
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two I actually got diagnosed with the cancer coming back in the middle of February last year so I knew it was back
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when I did Tokyo so I ran Tokyo Marathon at that time I had two tumors in my spine and we thought that that was going
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to be the extent of it but then just before I flew to Tokyo we found out I also had tumors in my lungs and in my
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chest wall and that it was wider spread than we thought so I was going to need to go through chemotherapy again so I
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ran Tokyo and then I flew to the UK to see my family and we had a little holiday in Italy to go Chan to go and
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see so you know these beautiful Terraces for Five Nights with my family and then
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I flew to Boston and I ran the Boston Marathon and I pretty much knew it was going to be my last marathon I knew it
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was going to get me my sixth majes I didn't know if I could finish the race cuz I had a lumber puncture just before
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I flew and that was really painful flying and I didn't know we knew it was spreading quickly I didn't know whether
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I'd be able to just you know actually do the run but I did and finish the marathon and that was it was a wonderful
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Marathon it was really lovely doing it with people who are special to me and yeah and and I remember running down the
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finishing shoot crying thinking this is the last time I'm ever going to do this
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but but it was okay what I want to finish on and then really bizarre so I worked 10 years for ABA Laboratories who
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sponsor the World Marathon Majors I worked for them in Germany for 10 years and the people giving the six-star
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medals were all Abbott employees and the woman who gave me the medal she said something I said oh you are you German
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and and she was German we'd work together in Germany when I worked in Germany how bizarre is that so she gave
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me my medal and I'd worked with her her in Germany in the German Abbot offices
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crazy crazy it is hey just get that microphone a little bit closer to your face um yeah um for
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anyone that doesn't know what you're talking about with the um the World
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Marathon Maes it's a series there's six of them right so there's um New York
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London Boston Chicago Berlin and Tokyo and um I'm a six star finisher once you've done all six of them you get this
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big giant metal which is an ugly piece of silverware but it's very very expensive it's big it's big it's
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impressive yeah so um yeah you and you and I are in a group of maybe 400 new zealanders I don't know they have got
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meal it's cool yeah it was an exciting achievement and and it was so it was I I
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got back from doing the marathon on the Friday I I remember landing at 6:00 a.m.
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and at 10:00 a.m. I was in the scanner having a CT scan and then on the Monday the chemo started so it was straight
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into it wow and you're um yeah you you're you're a tough [ __ ] as well yeah
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yeah you you you told me you told me yesterday um we'll unpack the whole Tracy Heckman story but you told me
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yesterday that um your pain level at the best is a constant 4 out of 10 um and for so for you to say 4 out of 10 uh for
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a normal person that would be excruciating because um you're uh with the running stuff you've done and it's a
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it's a remarkable Journey especially since you're quite a late started you
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started sort of midle I was 42 42 when I did my first marathon so I I think it's
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just worth mentioning this because your your ability to cope with pain and even put yourself in the pain cave is um
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incredibly high it's a high bar um okay so F first of all um May 22nd 2024 if
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everything goes exactly the way you hope how will that day look um it will it will hopefully have some chocolate for
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breakfast cuz I'm a real chocol holic and I'm not going to miss out on that
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and then we're going to go to a beach with the people I really love with my my
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sister and a husband my niece my partner and a few close friends and when listen to The Waves see the sea
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and I will die and I just feel such a huge relief that I'm going to be able to
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do it in that way it's it's going to be that a very gentle way to die it's the
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minimum amount of pain that I that I could have you know in order to achieve that somewhere
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beautiful hopefully I'm online going to have a few close friends and family as
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well people I'm originally English there are people in the UK who aren't
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able to come and make the trip but I'm hoping to have them online and I feel I've been given this massive
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gift I feel privileged in the last few months I've said goodbye to so many people how many people get a chance to
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do that when they pass away and so yeah just feeling feeling very fortunate to be in the position of n in and that in
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New Zealand we have the ability to do this it's been very interesting the last
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week to find out some people don't even realize that it is legal here and I know
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it's up for review at the end of the year and I'm very much hoping it gets
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gets renewed but um yeah it's it's a really really privileged um what um what what what
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attracted um you to exiting on your own terms you're control freak an absolute
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control freak and the the side effects from the treatment have been horrendous you know particularly in the last year
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I'm I'm not the person I was and I I don't want to just I with with further
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medication and treatment I could probably be around for a while longer but I don't just want to exist I just
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don't just want to live and I don't want to have to deal with the pain and the
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incontinence and not being able to travel and all the other stuff that goes with it I've lived a very full life I'm
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very fortunate with what I've been able to do and that's the term I only want to
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live that sort of life and if I can't do that I want out and I I spent time looking at how I could do it I don't
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want to commit suicide cuz I don't want to do it in a way that would have an
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impact on other people you know if if someone commits suicide it's awful for
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the people around them and yeah just just not a road I want to go down another way to do it would be to
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voluntarily stop eating and drinking and that's not something I want to do I
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think when people naturally come towards the end of their life with cancer they they'll lose their appetite
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but it's not a comfortable way to go it's not a quick way to go and it's not
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a way that I want my family to see me go so this way feels like a gentle way and
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a way that none of us want want it to happen but I think with everyone is supportive of me
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being able to make the choice and everybody realizes that it's the right thing for me and over the last
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two or 3 weeks since since I've sort of been making the decision I feel so so
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much better I just feel really comfortable that this is the right choice for me and everybody who knows me
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who's aware of it has also said yep they can see the change in me they can see
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that I've just reached a level of peace it's a lot to take in it is Sor I'm and
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I'm really comfortable with it I've talked about it a lot so I can talk about it without being in floods of
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Tears I'm sorry sorry have if you need a hug show um but yeah I I came around to your
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place yesterday we caught up yesterday and you told me the date um and I found that quite um I don't know conf
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confrontational I guess and I start I'm hoping now it is going to be that date
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yeah and I've got a problem if it isn't because see feels like half my family
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have got birthdays in May and so I can't I can't do it on someone's birthday so
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I've had to make a list to work out what the dates I can't do it there's not that
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many left so all right okay um we'll we'll go back um further and then we'll
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we'll do a full circle and we'll cover the stuff but first of all who is Tracy
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Hickman yeah who am I I'm sitting opposite you I'm 57 years old originally from the UK
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lived in New Zealand for 20 years is um do you want me to talk about my childhood a little bit just a it was a
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really [ __ ] [ __ ] childhood no I think I think that's interesting in particular
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um like the the trace that I know it's you you know you're a tough bugger
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you're very stubborn um I know this by some of the running events you've done
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which which are just wild and we'll get into that and you've and you were a late
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stter to the sport so reflecting on your early years like where do you think that
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comes from I think I think because it it was rough my my father was a gambler he
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was a lovely man but he was very weak and he was a gambler and my mother had some awful mental health issues she was
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not a lovely woman um she used to leave every few months and she yeah it was just it was a really rough childhood and
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it culminated in when I was a teenager my dad had left so I was just living with my mom and one day I got
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home to an empty house there was my bedroom was intact and there was one of everything in the kitchen but she had
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taken everything else even the light bulbs completely empty she'd moved out and here I was just suddenly by myself
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so I had to I started flatting I found somewhere to live I got myself a job and gave up any hope of going to University
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at that stage and just got a job and worked and and got over it got on with my life but I think all of that has
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given me strength to know I can get through anything I can survive anything and over the years I was was very lucky
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I I got into an accounting career um and that ended up being quite a nice lucrative career so that gave me the
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freedom to do lots of things I've worked with some wonderful people I'm still in touch with people I
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worked with in my first job nearly 40 years ago yeah that was at hbro right yes yeah toy company and it was 1985
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which is when Transformers and My Little Pony were released yeah it was the hey day of Hasbro incredible incredible so
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you so you um you were uneducated but you got job and got this job I was C assistant Rose through the ranks but you
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were sort of out of your depth oh I was way out of my depth but we all were none
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of us really knew knew what we're doing because we suddenly you know this tiny
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little company I I can't remember what the turnover was in the first year but
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it sort of was 10 10 15 times in in a year and um yeah and and that set me off on my career path so that was incredible
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and then I moved to work for Abba Laboratories the big um multinational um Healthcare company and and I worked for
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them in the UK and my mother was German so I could speak German and our um Finance director went to work in Germany
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so a little while after we'd been there I got a call saying hey do you want to
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come and work over here and that got me that moved me to Germany and I had a wonderful 10 years working over there
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and really enjoyed living there but while I was working for him I had the opportunity to apply for some jobs and I
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didn't get them because I didn't have the qualifications and so that set me off on
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a path I I moved to Cardiff and went to Cardiff University in Wales got myself a
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degree and then I got my accounting qualification and that set me up then for a proper career in accounting so
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yeah I was 27 when I went to UNI went as a mature student but I lived with a whole load of 18yar olds they used to
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call me auntie Tracy and and had a great time with them I I sort of rediscovered
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I think that that those teenage years that I'd missed out on because I was busy just trying to survive I had that
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one was 27 getting drunk at the pub and getting doc Martins and you know all that sort of stuff that yeah that was
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fun um and then I met my husband and we got married and we moved to New Zealand yeah in Vago in Vago yeah know why you
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love doing tough things you know people people dism I think a lot of the people who say nasty things about it haven't
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actually been there it's not that bad a place and it was it was a good place to
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start life in New Zealand I had a I had a good job it was I'd I'd taken a step
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back and had an easier job because I I didn't want it to be all about work I
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wanted to enjoy life um we were lucky we sold a house in the UK and bought a house without a mortgage so that gave a
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certain amount of freedom to be able to take a step down and I learned to snowboard we did kaying just had a lot
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of outdoor life really enjoyable time but my husband and I we had we had a lovely marriage but I don't think it was
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ever meant to be for the whole of of our lives and I fell out of love with him and I ended up making the decision
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that I was going to move to ockland and do contract work in ockland and then keep going back to inago and see him so
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didn't have any intention of of leaving him of the marriage being over then when
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I moved to ockland I joined get running which was a a running club and met all these wonderful Runners and started
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training for my first marathon which was Oakland marathon in 2008 and the marathon so you were how
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old then I2 42 and the day after the marathon my mother died and I hadn't had
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any contact with her for a few years just before I moved to New Zealand I reached out and I met her in London we
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went to lunch I bought her some things and we said goodbye and I thought that that would be the goodbye I wasn't sure
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but when she died it it had much more of an impact than I thought it would really
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I was I I can remember reading I read an email telling me that she' done my sister had emailed
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me with retrospective phone call would have been better but it was just it's
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just the way it worked out of the time she sent me an email and I was in the office and I read this email and I
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howled like an animal would how and I cried and it took me years to get over it I think probably because of because
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of what I didn't have you know I there was no bitterness but I was just really
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sad for the fact that I hadn't had a good relationship with her but it made me realize that I didn't want to muck
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around with the rest of my life in a relationship that I wasn't happy in and
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doing things I didn't want to do so split up with my husband and you guys you guys didn't have any kids a no no
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kids no no so it was easy easy was that was that a choice or it just didn't work
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out that way choice choice I just I I didn't think I'd be a very good mother
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and the you know there was always that danger I could have ended up like my mom and that would have been awful for kids
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and my brothers and brother and sisters had kids so I sort of treated them as my
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kids and really fortunate to have great relationships with my nieces and nephews
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so yeah um and and then also made the decision I was on this wonderful Marathon high after having done my first
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marathon you did all right too by the way like 420 or something I know 4 420 that was pretty good and I was do you
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know the actual time my mother died I was sitting in a tattoo artist chair getting a tattoo of a rubber duck to
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commemorate the marathon so I thought it was only going to be my one ever marathon and that one in 2008 Adidas had
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these rubber ducks all over Oakland yeah that was the campaign that year yeah they had this massive massive big
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plastic rubber duck in in Victoria Park and these post every and saying look be a rubber duck you can't can't Dent them
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they won't sink so I used to run along and I used say I am a little rubber duck
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I am a little rubber even now times get hard like if I'm in the chemo chair I'd
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be saying to I'm a rubber duck I can get through this I've got this little tattoo
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of rubber duck so um so yeah I was in the chair when she actually died so that so when I found out I thought I'm not
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going to let this Define me I need to do another marathon and I need to keep that
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high so I just I split up for my husband and I carried on marathon training and and with all the lovely friends that I'd
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made kept in touch and they're all still friends now so it's the running just
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changed my life it gave me this huge Network of friends traveling all over the world and it gave me confidence in
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my career I don't think I would have been a director of the company I ended up working for if I hadn't done all the
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marathons and if that hadn't given me the confidence and it gave me something
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to talk about when you go to network events you know you go to an event with a room full of accountants and lawyers
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and bankers it's not the most exciting area to be in and and I could talk about
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climbing kilamanjaro and and running a marathon there and running marathons in New York and all this sort of things
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well it got to the stage where whenever I saw people client potential clients or
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Bankers the first thing they'd say would be where have you just been and where
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are you off to next and yeah it's good and it was so it was around this time
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you met Paul who's um sitting in the other room at the moment um you bought him along as a support person in case
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you in case I have a seizure because is that a real chance yeah yeah I had a seizure um about a month ago that lasted
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40 minutes and it was horrendous and I could so the the doctor who I saw a couple of weeks ago said look you know I
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could lose Consciousness at any time and I've got a broken sternum at the moment
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from the from the cancer like my theory my spine could break my my neck could break so or I could have a seizure and
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if I have a seizure there's this medication which would just help me to get out of it really quickly cuz 40
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minutes was a long time to be my I was with my sister and a husband and they thought I was dying it was it was really
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awful um so yeah so I met Paul in 2009 and just the minute we saw each other we I met him through on online dating I um
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we we had this date we met at the nor you know the northern steamship I don't
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think it's called that anymore yeah down BR that one yeah that's the one and I
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remember walking up towards it and he was standing outside and thinking oh he looks quite nice and he thought the same
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of me and we went for a drink that night and he said to me people meet for a reason a season or a lifetime and I
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thought I hope it's a lifetime I thought where did that come from I just wanted
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to bit casual fun and sudden here I aming a lifetime and we've been together
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ever since and it's it's just been the most wonderful relationship is yeah in
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when covid hit and we're suddenly together 24 hours a day there's not many
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people that I want to be with for 24 hours and that I could coope with for 24 hours and we could we could so yeah oh
00:22:23
that's nice that's really nice did you did you guys consider getting married at
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all did you discuss it or done that got the T-shirt when so the marathon I did after ockland was Paris marathon in 2010
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and he came with to Paris and I said to him please if you get any ideas do not propose to
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me the one thing I need you to do is if you love me never put a ring on it cuz I
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I'd been there I'd had I'd done I'd had marriage thing and it hadn't worked out
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I felt no need to this decoration of love in front of all our friends and family because everyone who knows me
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knows how in love we are and and yeah we're just we're just really happy
00:23:01
without it we don't need it and I even you know even now I think oh God should
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I try and quickly do it before I die but no no I don't need to how's he going to
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be oh yeah you know I think he's he's he's he's going to be upset but we've
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got a really good support network and he's seen what I've been through over
00:23:20
the last year the amount of pain that I go through every day and all the all all
00:23:25
the ways my life has changed you know it's it's like it's the pain it's the
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travel it's the incontinence it's the not being able to work it's I'm just not
00:23:35
me anymore and so he is completely supportive in the decision that I'm making and yeah it's it's it's going to
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be hard it's going to be hard for a while I've said to him I really want him
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to meet someone else I want I don't know if he'll get what we've got again be
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lovely if he did I really want him to meet someone else but he's got to wait
00:23:55
at least two weeks two weeks see you say you're not you anymore and I know like from a physical perspective I
00:24:09
I know you're not and I know that must be incredibly frustrating like um you
00:24:13
you've got like a a walker thing at the moment I know I've had that for a week
00:24:16
well that one we just got this morning um but three weeks ago we did a walk around Grayland Park and it was about 3
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and a half K and he couldn't keep up with me and then two weeks ago over the weekend I had a
00:24:31
couple of Falls and so we got a walking stick but then I found the walking stick
00:24:35
that I wasn't really well balanced on it so then a friend of ours had a walker
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home she said well look let's try this and I realized [ __ ] I do need a walker
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now and then today the walk has turned up that's foldable so we can take it everywhere but the the rate of change is
00:24:50
crazy yeah but personality wise though you're the you're you're the same person
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you've got through this whole thing with a smile on your face oh I have and I'm
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really pleased that I've managed to keep my mental ability cuz I didn't know
00:25:03
there's over 30 tumors in my head and I would currently currently and you think
00:25:09
that they'd be pressing against things and maybe maybe changing how I feel I
00:25:13
think I'm probably a bit snappier sometimes than I would be and not not quite as patient and I've been a bit
00:25:20
tearful but for the most part I'm I'm still me and I'm able to be eloquent
00:25:28
enough to get my opinions across and yeah so I'm surprised that I've managed
00:25:34
to keep it this long and hopefully I've the the date choosing the date was really difficult because your
00:25:41
inclination is to make it as far out as possible so you've got as long as possible with the people you love but it
00:25:47
needs to be far enough away that I've got enough time still to do things I want to do and like we're heading to
00:25:53
Queenstown this weekend and we're going to Rotorua Marathon next weekend to support our running friends doing this
00:25:58
marathon and things like that so I think the time I've got left is going to be
00:26:02
enough time to be able to do what I really want to do but it needs to be close enough that if my neck suddenly
00:26:11
breaks or if I suddenly lose the chance to be eloquent about things I can still do this because I have to show that I've
00:26:19
got the mental capacity to be able to make that decision I mean nobody's putting any pressure on me that's that's
00:26:24
a that's an easy one to comply with but the doctor has to ask me do I still want
00:26:30
to go ahead with the decision and I have to when I say yes I do she has to believe that I've got the mental
00:26:36
capacity to be able to this is at the time of at the time of right right so so that's why I need to still be able to be
00:26:44
me and be normal at the time time of so if you feel if you're feeling set like
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you are now on May 21 you'll push it out or postpone it no no I don't want I
00:26:56
don't want the risk I could do if I wanted to the way I'm feeling right now
00:27:01
is probably not because I don't want to risk not being able to do it then my my
00:27:07
feel is that by the 22nd of May I will have done all the things that I want to do and I'll be ready to go and I may be
00:27:17
in a position that I could hang around for a little bit longer but what if I made the decision to hang around for
00:27:22
another week and then suddenly my neck broke or something and I no longer had the mental capacity to be able to say
00:27:30
yes I want to go ahead with that and then I'm faced with having to go in a normal way and it could still be really
00:27:35
quick but I just I don't want to risk that you what have um and that's my so
00:27:42
I'm having another talk to the doctor this afternoon just to make sure that my
00:27:45
understanding of that is absolutely right but I I'm pretty sure I've got it
00:27:49
right what what have um what have um oncologists or the experts said in terms of in terms of you know like time frame
00:27:57
and things um so the the first onc my oncologist who I've worked with over five years she had said that she didn't
00:28:04
think I would survive past 3 months so when we found that out about 3 weeks ago and I was thinking I was I was locked
00:28:12
into that three months thinking I had three months to do stuff and then the doctor saw I saw a couple of weeks ago
00:28:18
she's had lots of experience of working with people in my situation and she said
00:28:22
she thought sort of one to two months and probably focusing on that one month and that made me realize if I want to do
00:28:28
stuff I just need to get on to it straight away so so yeah that's probably where I've been thinking about the the
00:28:34
one month and and you know I know if I Chang my mind if I want to push it out more I could and I could also just stop
00:28:41
at any time so if I decide actually no this isn't the right way for me I could
00:28:45
just stop there's yeah lots of Freedom there it's nice for you to have some of
00:28:50
the control back yes yeah that's the main thing okay um let's um focus on
00:28:55
your running for a little bit so yeah first marathon at 4 too that's about the
00:28:59
same time you met Paul and you made him you made you made him run New York I heard you sort of bullied him around New
00:29:05
York no what well he was a lot slower than you he was a lot slower than me and I did what happened was when we we met
00:29:14
so we met in 2009 and he was a swimmer and a cyclist and a tennis player and I was a runner I
00:29:24
couldn't swim and I couldn't ride a bike a lot of British people can't swim it's
00:29:27
not particular usual or ride a bike but when I S I didn't even want to get in
00:29:31
the water and a few of my friends over the years have tried to teach me to ride a bike and they'd got me sort of on it
00:29:38
in a straight line for a little bit but I'd never I never I didn't like doing it
00:29:42
so I never practiced and fall intens of purposes I could not ride a bike so we had a deal I said if you run a half
00:29:47
marathon I will learn to swim and ride a bike and the bugger went and did Oakland
00:29:51
half marathon so I then didn't have a lot of choice so then ockland Council put this thing on for adults to learn to
00:29:57
ride a bike so I learned to ride a bike and then I went to tepid baths and learned to swim and I did something
00:30:03
called the tri orryy in takapuna it was like a um 300 M swim N 9 or 10 km bike ride and then a 3 km run like a nice
00:30:14
entry level event I came last it first did last it was it was so yeah but hey somebody's got to come last and I didn't
00:30:22
think I was cuz there was someone behind me and I thought yay them last and then
00:30:26
she was disqualified cuz she didn't do the whole of the run but but you know
00:30:30
that's all right so but so he did a half marathon and then I we both entered for
00:30:35
the um Poll for the the no what's it called not pole you know where you enter
00:30:40
for the Oakland for the New York Marathon the B through yeah for the ballot yeah we entered the ballot for
00:30:45
the New York Marathon and we got in it's just like incredible so we went to New
00:30:49
York and he ran his first marathon there and I I ended up doing 49 km cuz it was
00:30:55
really cold and he he hurt himself after about 17K so he was walking so I was literally running backwards and forwards
00:31:04
and skipping and going side to side just trying to keep myself War Anno I was pretending to be a bit of pizza I was
00:31:12
there's one photo what do you mean oh he was desperate for pizza and he thought that
00:31:17
would help him through so I was like just pretend I'm Pizza come on come on you can do this you can do this and then
00:31:21
at the end of the race I got back to the hotel room and I went and got I got him
00:31:24
ice I got him Peach so I was back and forwards everywhere bring him all this stuff but but he did ever so well he did
00:31:29
it and and then that set him off on a running career and you know he's just as
00:31:34
much a runner as he's done think six marathons and he's done um 100 kilometer
00:31:39
race so yeah he's a great Runner oh good team eh yeah yeah and some of the running stuff so we mentioned at the
00:31:46
beginning the World Marathon majes which you've got a six-star finishing medal
00:31:50
for and there's something quite nice about that like um when you go to any one of those events they have like a an
00:31:56
honors board and your name's going to be on that wall forever yeah which is which
00:32:00
is pretty cool I think and at the moment so I've got I've got a friend who did
00:32:04
Tokyo Marathon um Lisa did Tokyo marathon and she sent me the picture of my name on the board which was really
00:32:10
cool and I've got another friend who's just done London marathon and she sent
00:32:14
me the picture of my my name on the board so I'm going to yeah it's kind of
00:32:18
nice and um yeah so the World Marathon Majors the the number of people in that group is fairly small but in even
00:32:24
smaller group is um people that have run uh Marathon on all seven continents which you have done were you the the
00:32:30
first second woman inand um third so Joe was second so my my friend Joe she's um
00:32:36
she's an opthalmologist and she's a runner and we met in 2009 I think we started running
00:32:44
together and we were we found we were the same sort of pace we got on well and so we we started running doing our
00:32:52
training together and then we were both looking for more from running than just entering a race I think we wanted
00:33:00
something that would have an you know be a real goal I think she was the one who
00:33:04
found it that you had there was this thing running a marathon on every continent so we thought well we' we'd
00:33:09
done a couple already let's work towards that and we entered for the Kilimanjaro
00:33:16
marathon and then we thought while we're there we might as well climb Kilimanjaro
00:33:19
because it' be a bit rude not to and so we did that yeah and um and we and we
00:33:25
ran a marathon together in Mongolia and we did the Antarctica marathon and she entered it first and then I and I'd
00:33:32
entered it for the year after but then she changed and we we ran it together and so when we did the Antarctica
00:33:38
Marathon that was our seventh continent and she was faster than me so I I maintained she was the second woman in
00:33:43
New Zealand to it and I was the third wow but just doing it you know um 99.9% of people will never go to
00:33:53
Antarctica let alone go there and run a [ __ ] Marathon like it's cool eh that's really
00:33:58
and um Marathon disabler as well which is very Niche most people won't even know what this is but this is like a
00:34:04
sand race like a a stage race tell us about that it's Pete's fault so when we
00:34:09
Pete's fault take some responsibility for your actions Trac no no no if you when we did Kilimanjaro we stayed in
00:34:16
this little bed and breakfast that was owned by a kiwi and maybe because she was it was owned by AI there was another
00:34:22
guy there it was a kiwi guy from inago called Pete and he told us he was was going to celebrate his 60th birthday by
00:34:29
running the marathon to Sao i' never even heard of it yeah but how small is New Zealand talking to Pete we realized
00:34:36
his wife when I left in Vago his wife had taken my job chances that wow so anyway so we hadn't we didn't know each
00:34:44
other before this time so he was telling us about this marathon of s and we thought actually sounds quite
00:34:49
interesting it's it's 250 km in the Sahara Desert and you have to your self
00:34:55
self sort of um I I think what the word is but we had to carry all our carry everything you eat we had everything we
00:35:02
eat our sleeping bags and um and then they put you in a tent it's not a tent
00:35:07
it's it's a bit of blanket with some wooden sticks that's your tent like a
00:35:10
kopy something yeah so you're allocated to a tent by country so there were we
00:35:15
were four kiwis and two Aussies in our tent I think um we we had two Elites in our tent which was quite cool and so he
00:35:26
told us about it and we said oh yeah we'll do that with you but that it was like 2015 we met and it was 2018 he
00:35:32
wanted to do it with us ages away and then in 2017 2016 he messaged us and he said
00:35:39
right it's open I'm entered and I thought oh brother I'm I I'm not sure I
00:35:44
actually want to do it now and then Joe entered and they were sending each other
00:35:47
messages saying is she entered yet and was like oh no and I'm like I am here
00:35:50
you know and and now I don't think I'm going to do it and then I was interviewed for um the Antarctica
00:35:58
Marathon there was a stuff article because I was doing it as a fundraiser and they said what's next and I said oh
00:36:04
not sure I'm thinking about maybe doing marathon deabler and when they sent me
00:36:08
the blur to read to proof check it they'd written and her next race is marathon disabler and I thought well I
00:36:13
can either call them and get them to change that to she's maybe thinking about it or I can just enter it so I
00:36:18
quickly entered it on the spot and sent them back and said yeah it's all good
00:36:22
and I remember Paul reading it saying what sayy you've actually entered and I'm like oh yeah I might have done that
00:36:27
this afternoon so um so yeah so we we trained together three of us trained together how do you train for that um
00:36:35
I've got a client um I had a client Ed is obviously not my client anymore and
00:36:40
he sold the business now he had a um Pie Factory and they had this massive freezer the industrial size freezer for
00:36:47
all the pies and so we put all our gear on and we went in the freezer to run up and down the shelves to make sure that
00:36:53
our gear that we could he took it down to 20 minus 20° and got the um the fan on so that we could make sure our gear
00:37:01
was cold oh off for the antartic one oh that's the antartic one oh yeah wow oh
00:37:05
no I didn't didn't even think about that wow oh yeah no and training for Marathon
00:37:09
disabler saers so we um we were training in the summer we had we put um really warm clothes on and we went to Beth's
00:37:20
Beach and to hanger and training on the sand there we um we trained in saers I I
00:37:28
was at the tepid BS in their in their steam room in their SAA with all my gear on and my God they must have looked
00:37:33
ridiculous yeah it' be crazy and and lots and lots of back to back so you've
00:37:38
got to do 250 km over a week and it's it's a it's it's a stage race so you do
00:37:43
like 30k one day 35k the next the longest day is 87 so I actually entered the teroa 87 race so that I knew I could
00:37:52
do 87 because that was a big mental thing for me um but a lot of our training would be doing three or four
00:37:58
runs in a row you know three or four days in a row or running morning and evening to build up that stamina we had
00:38:05
um our feet needed to be really tough because of the blisters so we bought this stuff called tough foot that horses
00:38:11
that is used on horses and dogs to toughen their feet so you you put this stuff on your feet and it gives you this
00:38:17
really hard skin I like awesome you know you could you could walk Barefoot on gravel and not feel it um and and the
00:38:25
food cuz you had to have 2,000 calories a day day and you had to make sure that you know you could that the food was
00:38:31
going to be palatable so I remember one night Joe and I both we' bought all these different sorts of dehydrated
00:38:37
Foods we got Paul over and we had a dinner party with all these foods and I remember you you are you still ging radx
00:38:44
nutrition sponsor Ric I love we had some radx food there it was I think it was not long after they started and they had
00:38:50
this pee thing this like mushy peas it was gross it was absolutely gross I think that's the only one that none of
00:38:56
us could eat but some of the radic stuff was delicious and there was some really
00:39:00
lovely French food as well so yeah we um we worked out what food we could have we
00:39:05
had to do we had to get these um these like suction thing in case we got bit by Scorpions so that you could take the
00:39:12
bite out so sting sting things um yeah I mean the training was there's lots of
00:39:20
books written about it there's documentaries on it I had a coach James cougler was my coach did a fantastic job
00:39:26
coaching me on it I didn't do everything he told me to but he um we built a relationship whereby you know he'd say I
00:39:33
really think you should do this and I'm like I'm not doing that and it was like
00:39:36
okay maybe try this and we'd negotiate and find a way through well and and you
00:39:41
got through it and I think all all of these um running events paint a picture of the sort of person you are like just
00:39:45
how how tough you are and how resilient you are um yeah have the lessons that you learned from doing these um
00:39:52
physically tough things helped you in dealing with the pain and discomfort that comes with absolutely cuz I you
00:39:58
know I know Marathon disabler was such a tough thing to do and while I was doing
00:40:03
it I got ill while I was out there I got an infection and so I had to deal with that as well on top of everything else
00:40:09
and when I had to deal with cancer I thought I can do this I you know I've run in the desert I've done marathons
00:40:15
everywhere when I did the the race in the marathon in Mongolia I got food poisoning the night before I literally I
00:40:21
stopped throwing up at 10:00 and the alarm went off at 2: to get up and run this race it took me 10 and 1 half hours
00:40:26
to the mar Marathon I was just in such a bad place but I did it and so all that stuff shows you yeah you can all you got
00:40:34
to do is be strong enough to suck it up pain is weakness leaving the body and you know all those little mantras to
00:40:39
yourself and just and just do it so I never had any doubt that I could get through the treatment what I don't like
00:40:47
is is where I've ended up like I think one of the biggest ones is not being able to travel and it's so wrong there's
00:40:54
a problem in New Zealand if I lived in AUST Australia or in the UK with stage 4 cancer I could get travel insurance Med
00:41:03
with Medical cover even with stage 4 cancer and if I had that I wouldn't be here right now I'd be in Croatia or
00:41:10
Costa Rica or Chile or the stands all these places that I still wanted to go to but in New Zealand we cannot get
00:41:17
travel insurance for stage four cancer patients you could up until covid hit and then when covid hit the one company
00:41:23
that was doing it pulled out and that that's wrong that's very wrong I contacted the companies that do it in
00:41:29
Australia and and the UK I said look I've got contacts in the insurance industry here from my professional
00:41:37
career can I help you set up over here there are people who want to do it could be lucrative we're willing to pay a lot
00:41:42
of money for travel insurance but you can't do that and that's that's one of
00:41:46
the toughest things not being able to travel yeah um you showed me something yesterday which um I actually found this
00:41:57
quite quite upsetting as well even though it's it's a beautiful thing and
00:42:00
it's um just an example of the I suppose the profound impact that you've had on
00:42:04
the the running circles that you move in um the blanket that was given to you as
00:42:09
a yeah that today how do you describe that it's um so it's a quilt one of the
00:42:15
women in our running club does a wonderful job of quilting Jennifer and she made a quilt of everybody
00:42:22
contributed a t-shirt that was important to them or a medal ribbon or a or a buff
00:42:28
some piece of material that was important to them and she's put them all together in a massive quilt with a
00:42:34
blanket on the back and then there's actually a letter on the back that they've all signed and they've said it's
00:42:39
from our running club for me to feel that they're with me when times get tough and for the last couple of weeks
00:42:45
pretty much every night I wake up at about 2 3:00 in the morning and when I wake up at that time I'm always in pain
00:42:51
and I have a little cry just to the emotion just to let the emotion out and get out of my system a bit and I take
00:42:57
morphine and the morphine makes me cold so I put that blanket on me and I just feel like everyone's hugging me it's so
00:43:04
special and so for the last year that that blanket has been giving me Comfort and the it's really it's beautiful is
00:43:14
it's absolutely beautiful and the treatment over the last year has been tough has been really tough but that
00:43:19
blanket has helped me through a lot of it and my cat loves it as well so he comes on it when we snuggle up together
00:43:24
and yeah it's pretty special so waking up in the middle of the night and um you're having a little a little cry is
00:43:31
is is it are you crying because frustration because of the pain or just like sadness because of your situation
00:43:37
or yeah the the partly the pain but then when I take the pain relief 20 minutes later you know I'm feeling okay again
00:43:45
mainly the frustration at just how has my life changed this much like a year ago I was running Boston Marathon and
00:43:52
now I'm making preparations to die and and I hate that it's going to have such
00:43:58
an impact on all the people who love me in the last few weeks I so I went to the
00:44:03
UK in March and in three and a half weeks I said goodbye to over 54 people all in really important people in my
00:44:09
life and again very privileged that I had the opportunity to do that but that's 54 people who I'm going to be
00:44:16
hurting because of what's going to happen in a few weeks time and I'm going
00:44:20
through it here now there's a lot of people here who I'm saying goodbye to
00:44:25
and some people I'm going to have the chance to see again in the next few weeks and some people when I see them
00:44:30
I'm like I'm sorry this is the last time we're going to see each other so we have
00:44:33
a hug and when I wake up in the early hours that's you know I think about who
00:44:37
I've said goodbye to that day or who I'm going to be seeing the next day and and
00:44:41
the impact I'm having on them but one good thing is because I'm originally
00:44:45
from the UK I've got a lot of family friends and family over there so then I
00:44:49
get on the phone and I've got two nieces Tracy and Kelly and they've been awesome
00:44:54
they at that time of day they've pretty much just got home home brought their
00:44:57
kids home from school got themselves a cup of tea we get on the phone and we get giggling and within 10 minutes of
00:45:03
being on the phone they've got me laughing telling me stories we're reminiscing and and it all feels okay
00:45:09
again yeah I can get through it so um March 2019 uh yeah you want us talk talk us through
00:45:18
that period so you go for a routine mogram yeah you're not you're not feeling unwell or anything it's just a
00:45:22
no the only thing I heard since so in 2018 so I ran Marathon to sablo in 2018 and then I trained for my first 100 km
00:45:33
race and as part of that training I did quite a lot of strength training and I had some pain in my chest and I thought
00:45:39
I'd pulled a muscle with all the strength training so that's the only that's the only thing and my routine
00:45:44
mamogram was due in about the October that year but my sister was going through getting diagnosed with
00:45:51
Parkinson's we didn't know at that time that that's what it was but she um she
00:45:55
had lots of pain she was going through Lots of CT scans and things so I was really thinking about her and I thought
00:46:00
I just can't coope with another scan result right now so I'm going to I'm
00:46:04
just going to put it off for a month or two and then I kept getting reminders saying You must come from the scan so I
00:46:09
went for my routine scan and I went I did it privately so went for the scan at 8:30 in the morning
00:46:18
2 hours later at 10:30 I'd come out and I'd had a scan a second scan a biopsy an
00:46:25
ultrasound a and had a breast surgeon talking to me about myectomy in 2 hours I had nobody else
00:46:31
there I was there by myself and I was just I was just Shell Shocked absolutely Shell Shocked I walked out of there and
00:46:39
burst in tears and I drove it was near Mount Eden I and I drove to the car park at Mount Eden and I sat there in the car
00:46:45
and I thought oh my God how is this my my sister had had breast cancer in 2015 I had a good friend who had it in 2013
00:46:53
another good friend who had it in 2017 so I had three people in my life had had it I and I'd been their support I
00:46:59
thought how the hell am I going to tell them how the hell am I going to tell Paul how am I going to tell my sister I
00:47:05
just sat and thought this this can't be happening and then I drove home and Paul
00:47:10
came home and and that was the start of the where we're at now and I I remember
00:47:17
sending an email to my to our managing partner at work and saying so I've I've
00:47:22
got breast cancer but I think I'm just going to be able to have a little operation I might be off for two wigs um
00:47:28
you know probably don't we probably don't need to tell that many people and
00:47:32
I should still be able to keep working in the background and then on the Monday found out that I'd need chemotherapy and
00:47:37
it was actually going to be longer than a couple of weeks and and yeah and it's
00:47:41
just been downhill from there what are um do you think are the biggest lessons or surprises um that you've learned
00:47:47
about yourself in in the face of this unimaginable adversity well I think I always knew
00:47:56
that I was tough I'm probably a bit tougher than than I thought I was um really yeah and I didn't realize how
00:48:07
many how many people I've got in my life who love me it's at the last couple of
00:48:13
weeks we've all started voicing it and telling each other how much we love each
00:48:18
other and even like you know people who in a work in a professional environment you don't you don't tell your colleagues
00:48:25
you love each other never but you know had a young lad who who worked for me for quite a few years and he was he was
00:48:32
my rightand person I I did well in my job because of his help and we told each other we loved each other and it's
00:48:39
really special it's actually voicing it I just didn't realize how much of that
00:48:44
and I didn't realize what an impact I'd made on other people's lives yeah one
00:48:49
thing I've noticed we've been talking for 48 minutes now something that you've
00:48:51
mentioned a few times is um just almost like the the guilt or the sadness you feel about
00:48:57
how other people are going to feel once you're gone um it's very selfless yeah I I guess I mean I if I if
00:49:07
I could have started to over my career I would have chosen to be a nurse or a police woman or something like that
00:49:14
where I could have been helping people cuz that's what I would have loved to do
00:49:20
I ended up in a career where I ended up helping people anyway with you know helping their businesses survive and
00:49:26
that sort of thing but I've always wherever I've worked I've gravitated
00:49:32
towards mentoring The Young Ones my clients and young ones at work often call me auntie Tracy and just being
00:49:40
there for people maybe it's because I didn't I didn't grow up with a situation where I had a really
00:49:48
loving family I my sister has been always been incredibly loving and looked after me but I I missed out on having
00:49:58
family looking after me like in that way so maybe that's why but but being able
00:50:03
to care for other people and love other people is something really important to me yeah you've um you've done so much um
00:50:10
bucketless stuff like some of those runs with actually your bucket list for a lot
00:50:14
of people listening to this or watching this would say like their nightmare um but you've done so much stuff that's I
00:50:19
guess on your bucket list is there anything that you really wanted to do that you're not going to get the chance
00:50:22
to yeah the countries countries to go to I would I would have love to go to matchu pitu um and to Croatia I would
00:50:33
have if I if I hadn't been ill so Joe my running friend has gone on she's done
00:50:39
the Mila at tarera wow Miler by the way 100 miles so it's like 160k and and when
00:50:45
she did the 100K she did it in 17 hours and it took me 24 hours we used to run together all the time if I hadn't had
00:50:52
cancer I would have probably been closer to her in 17 hours so that's the the
00:50:56
impact that the cancer had on me and I and I couldn't hope to a Miler I would
00:51:00
have loved to have done a Miler and I've got a good friend Rachel who's going to
00:51:04
be doing the Miler next year and we were we had dinner this week and we were both
00:51:10
crying about the fact that she's going to have to do it by herself and I would
00:51:13
have done it with her and that that hurts knowing that I can't help her through that hopefully she's going to
00:51:19
feel that I'm with her you know but hey um so yeah doing a Milo would have been
00:51:24
a really awesome thing and seeing seeing just being part of friends lives seeing them seeing them
00:51:32
achieve things and yeah like in a way yeah seeing the little ones grow up you know got four-year-old
00:51:40
and 8-year-old great nieces and and 15-year-old and seven couple of 17 year olds seeing
00:51:47
them meet people have children get married make success of their careers all of that
00:51:54
miss out on all of that yeah just life moving on I guess and growing old with Paul you know we had plans to grow old
00:52:01
together and I was said to him like if we I wanted to I wanted to be with him for 50 years and we were 42 when we met
00:52:08
so that was going to be a bit of a stretch but I said when we were in our early hundreds like5 six and we've had
00:52:14
enough we are going to go out with a splash cuz I said I wanted to get in a helicopter and I wanted to go over a
00:52:20
volcano and I was going to push him out and then jump in after him and he's always been so very extreme
00:52:27
murder suicide yeah yeah he's always been a bit scared of that so this weekend we're going we're going to
00:52:33
Queenstown he's never been in a helicopter before we're going to Queenstown and we're doing a helicopter
00:52:38
ride and um I think he's excited about it now I don't think I think in a normal
00:52:44
situation I probably wouldn't have gotten him in there because I think he's
00:52:46
always thought about my threat of the of the volcano wouldn't that be a way to go
00:52:50
then oh my God very dramatic that's although apparently we we had we caught up we went to Sydney last weekend and we
00:52:56
caught up with some friends to say goodbye over there and they said it's physically not possible that I wouldn't
00:53:01
have been able to push him out of the helicopter because of the the aerodynamics of it or whatever so so my
00:53:06
plan wouldn't have worked anyway I don't know I I don't know I feel like if there
00:53:09
was a way to do it you'd figure it out um yeah are you still well enough to enjoy these things in the last few weeks
00:53:14
like I mean Sydney we um we were really lucky we went to Bondi and we spent the day in Bondi it was the day before the
00:53:22
awful events of Bondi but we spent we spent a whole day at this um Beach Club I it's like a bit like an RSA oh ice BS
00:53:32
yeah that's it ice swimming pool yeah not the not the flash bit the bit where
00:53:37
you can just go and have fishing chips and stuff we spent we spent about four or five hours there and it was lovely so
00:53:41
yeah enjoyed that and and in Queenstown we're also we're going to go to nice
00:53:46
restaurant book some nice accommodation going to enjoy the when we go to road to
00:53:50
R next weekend for the marathon we're going to see our friends do the marathon
00:53:53
and we're all a big group of us are going to go to that new Spa that's opened up on the waterfront so I'm
00:53:58
hoping we're going to enjoy that so I can go along and enjoy these things in
00:54:02
the background there's always a level of pain and I also have to have to just
00:54:08
manage my energy levels I I still I forget that life has changed and that I can't do what I think I can do so a lot
00:54:18
of it is sort of Paul saying to me come on I I think you need to take a lie down
00:54:22
or take a break yes is someone that's been um and also the steroids oh my gosh
00:54:28
the steroids are having an impact on me and are speeding me up no business we were in the supermarket on Wednesday and
00:54:34
he was like can we stop I I just I need you to slow down I feel a bit guilty that I'm making
00:54:41
him do that God you're not even a coffee drinker no so yeah steroids um are you scared you have if she
00:54:52
is I'm I'm a little bit scared just of of something going wrong of it of it
00:55:00
not being of the control freaking me not being able to get it to go exactly as I
00:55:04
want it to go the actual death itself I don't think I am anymore I think I think I've reached a a place
00:55:13
where no I think I think if it if it's as gentle as they say it's going to be
00:55:18
and you know it's two or three minutes even if that is 2 or 3 minutes of pain
00:55:22
that's not long to have to deal with but by all accounts that's not going to be a
00:55:26
really painful thing and and I'm just going to be with all the people I really
00:55:31
love and know so no no I don't think I am scared anymore I um I think I read
00:55:38
somewhere that the the last thing that goes is in terms of your senses is your hearing yeah so it's a bit ironic really
00:55:44
since the chemo destroyed my hearing all right so I was you know what the chances
00:55:49
when I had my first dose of chemo I got a a very large dose and it took away a huge part of my hearing so I have
00:55:58
hearing aids now so there's something like 46,000 people around the world had
00:56:03
had the same treatment of me 23 had lost their hearing and I'm was number 24 so
00:56:09
CH that so yes I do have enough hearing left that hopefully I will still be able
00:56:13
to but yeah the hearing is the last thing so hopefully I'll still be able to
00:56:18
hear the SE and I'll be able to hear whatever my family is saying and so so you'll be on because I don't know it's
00:56:25
probably not something gave a lot of thought to but I just assumed um people that chose to die this way would be
00:56:31
maybe in a bed at home or in a hospice or in a in a clinic or somewhere um but you you can do it anywhere so you choose
00:56:38
your Beach yeah I don't know about anywhere but I know um within so the doctor mentioned that you could do it in
00:56:44
a garden or a park or a beach and I straight away HED in on the beach and thought that would be really because
00:56:51
Beach beaches are very meaningful to me and I thought that would be a lovely place place to be now I um I don't know
00:56:59
the E the exact you know whether I'm going be sitting on a rug or on a chair
00:57:04
or how how we're going to make it work I think we've chosen the beach we we're
00:57:08
really lucky we met one of my former clients on Monday and they suggested a beach that's very close to their home
00:57:15
where they got married and I my first thought was like oh you can't do that I
00:57:19
don't want you to be looking at that beach all the time and thinking that's
00:57:21
where I died and they said no you're you're getting this wrong way we'd see
00:57:25
it as an honor if you if you did it there so so I'm thinking I haven't actually been there yet so we need to go
00:57:31
up and have a load but I'm thinking that might be the place and yeah maybe getting some nice chairs set up at
00:57:37
gazebo if it's raining and and just be together holding I thinking maybe holding hands yeah I haven't I haven't
00:57:44
put a lot of thought into how it's going to work I wanted to have that conversation with the doctor this
00:57:48
afternoon to make sure that the timing and the location is going to work before I invest too much energy into it I
00:57:55
didn't want to get all well not excited excited is the wrong word to get you
00:57:59
know to get it all clear in my mind about how it's going to be and then to find that I can't do that I don't want
00:58:05
to die at home I don't we we live in a lovely old Villa in gyin there's no plan
00:58:11
to sell it and I don't want Paul to have those memories of me dying at home I
00:58:16
don't I don't think that would be a good thing um so if it can't be there then it
00:58:20
would be in a hospice and there is a hospice where you're allowed to do assisted death so yeah so if I can't if
00:58:28
I can't do it anywhere else then that's where it would be but hopefully we can
00:58:31
get the beach to work and music playing or anything you have a a bluetoo speaker
00:58:36
I hadn't thought about that I mean yeah could have a bit of the the checks ready
00:58:40
to die maybe oh my God is that wrong is that wrong hey you I would I wouldn't go with
00:58:49
Staying Alive because that would be a bit too um I love Queens of the Stone Age and there is a Queens of song saying
00:58:57
I'm going to leave I'm going to leave you so yeah I have to put a bit thought
00:59:02
into that yeah yeah maybe no music actually the more I'm talking to you the maybe I'm thinking no music and it might
00:59:08
be quite nice he just um just the sound of the Waves crashing and yeah yeah yeah
00:59:12
and um any regrets or anything you do differently there's a couple of things
00:59:18
I've done in my life that I do differently I probably don't want to go into but just just thinking yeah I don't
00:59:24
you know I don't know if any of us go to our whole life but for the most part
00:59:29
even for those things one of those I've apologized and for the most part I think
00:59:36
I've been true to my values and just trying to treat people in a good way in the same way that I'd
00:59:43
want to be treated yeah um I wish my relationship with my M had been different and it's not a regret on
00:59:51
my side and I don't know if there's anything I could have done to make it
00:59:54
different I think she I think Dad needed to be stronger and she would have needed
01:00:00
some help with the mental health issues and that maybe she could have been and you know for one of a better
01:00:07
word normal mother and but then my whole life could have been really different if
01:00:12
that had happened I might not be the strong person that I am and I might have just ended up living a really normal
01:00:19
boring ordinary life and as it is I've lived such a full life I've had so many
01:00:24
adventures and I think I'm I'm grateful for the fact that I've had those so and
01:00:30
even my marriage you know I the marriage didn't work out but we're both really
01:00:36
happy now with new partners he's got a couple of kids and we're still in touch
01:00:41
not on a regular basis but just you know the OD once or twice a year in email he
01:00:45
knows um he doesn't know the full extent you know that that I'm going to be dying
01:00:49
in a couple of weeks time but he knows that it's come back yeah and and I think
01:00:54
yeah I could I can hold my head up high when I when I look at how that that's
01:00:59
turned out that's cool um and you've buried any hatchets that you feel you
01:01:05
need you needed to bury well I've I've got a brother who's he's a half brother
01:01:10
so um we share the same mother but not the same father and his wife passed away in October and he reached out to me when
01:01:18
his wife passed away I think he probably realized that he was going to be lonely
01:01:23
cuz she looked after him for nearly 30 years and I met up with him when I went to the UK we only met up for about an
01:01:32
hour or so and it it felt like meeting a stranger I he's a lot older than me and
01:01:37
I realized I don't really know him but I'm glad I met with him because I could
01:01:42
walk away and think well look I did that I met with him I realized that he's not
01:01:48
this person I've got heaps in common with who I want wanted to spend lots of
01:01:51
time with I don't regret the fact that I didn't spend lots of time with him over
01:01:55
the years is and and I said goodbye and yeah I think there's probably the only
01:02:01
one I've got another sister um so I always talk about my sister my one sister we do have another
01:02:07
sister she also has those mental health issues and we for self-preservation we're not in touch with her yeah she's
01:02:15
done some really awful things and I have no regrets about that at all and I and I'm absolutely fine with the fact that
01:02:21
she's not in my life I think it's a better life for it so so yeah yeah um
01:02:28
what about the afterlife do you do you are you an atheist are you yeah I I I don't believe in God um I don't know
01:02:35
what's going to happen I increasingly I'm thinking maybe there'll be a bit of spirit or something maybe
01:02:41
people will feel I'm with them um with I've got one niece who she does a lot of
01:02:47
work in Antarctica I took her to Antartica with me when I did the marathon and she ended up she was a
01:02:52
zookeeper and she looked after gorillas and she ended up changing careers so that she's now an A guide in Antarctica
01:02:59
and she said often she'll she'll take necklaces with her and her necklace will
01:03:04
move and or or she I can't remember the exact story I think she read that like a
01:03:09
necklace can be moved by someone and so we we have this deal that if she sees her necklace moving it means I'm with
01:03:15
her and I've moved her necklace for her so oh that's cool a little signs yeah
01:03:21
but um but for the most part no I don't once G like a I think once you're gone
01:03:26
you're gone I mean a few I've got a few friends who believe in reincarnation and if that is a thing I
01:03:32
would love to come back as something really caring like a Jessica perhaps a Jessica yeah yeah be a Jessica be a
01:03:40
Jessica yeah um what what are some things that you thought were important but now you
01:03:46
realize they weren't oh stuff my god I've spent the last year getting rid of
01:03:50
stuff shoes I had 104 pairs of shoes That's not including boots or running shoes that's just you know dress shoes
01:03:58
and the amount of stuff that I had I've given it all to charity shops the running gear I had I've given a lot of
01:04:05
that to my fellow Runners and that's been a nice thing because they've said
01:04:08
that they're going to think about me when they wear it when they run but all
01:04:12
that other stuff it's just crazy and and I think we forget how important relationships are over the last few
01:04:22
months the amount of lovely time I've spent with people where we've been
01:04:26
really truthful in expressing our feelings for each other telling each other that we love each other how much
01:04:31
we care for each other and having special time and just recently because I'm so tired a lot of time when people
01:04:36
come around I'm like can we just sit on the sofa and snuggle and just just have
01:04:40
a cuddle and just talk and we don't do enough of that there's this emphasis on
01:04:45
going to flashh restaurants and doing stuff doesn't life doesn't have to be
01:04:48
about that it can be about just being together have you always been good with the stuff and quite communicative or has
01:04:54
it sort of been accelerated oh no I think I think I've been pretty good I've
01:04:59
somehow I have ended up with a huge number of friends I've being in touch staying in touch
01:05:06
with people has always been important I've been quite good at communication I
01:05:09
think so I've moved around a lot this is this address now is my 40th address and despite moving everywhere
01:05:19
I've made sure that I've kept in touch with people I've worked with or been
01:05:22
friends with and that's why this is huge process now of trying to see everyone
01:05:28
and say goodbye to everyone but I think I think the communication telling people
01:05:34
how I feel about them might be one of the reasons or one of the ways that I've
01:05:39
managed to develop such deep friendships yeah how would you like to be remembered hopefully as as someone who
01:05:48
made a difference in people's lives to know is that a bit too too big boastful
01:05:55
well no it's your story it seems like you feel embarrassed about saying that
01:05:59
out loud I was just as I as I was saying that I thought gosh that's probably a
01:06:03
bit too tall poppy well jeez if you can't say it a few weeks out from um your death when
01:06:10
can you say it I think that's a very very reasonable expectation of how to be
01:06:14
remembered yeah um I had a guy around the other day a guy called dug Allen who's like a multisport uh Legend and
01:06:21
he's current in Team New Zealand he did um in one of those God Zone events a few
01:06:25
years with M and he said um during one of the one of the nights like night three or night four or whatever this
01:06:32
5day event um they would they they come up with little games to try to keep each
01:06:36
other awake and Richie mcco asked everyone in the team um three words for how they'd like to be described at their
01:06:45
funeral um yeah can you think of three words oh God you brung that one on me didn't you not one to spring on someone
01:06:52
with chemo brain um friendly I'd like everyone to think because I've always tried to be friendly
01:07:03
to make people feel really welcome so so friendly um is going to be wrong loving cuz I I
01:07:14
feel I feel I've had a lot of love for people and hopefully they've really felt
01:07:20
that that love and stubborn yeah I why was that the first one cuz I am stubborn as a mule I will I you know
01:07:33
I've said before you can dress it up as determined or whatever but there's no
01:07:36
there's no dress up it is stubborn and if I get my mind set on something it will happen Paul is laughs I say to him
01:07:43
all you've got to do is Express the slightest interest in want to do something and the minute he says it it's
01:07:49
like helicopter riding Queen down it's booked flights are booked hotels booked
01:07:53
everything it's like I'm going to make things happen yeah you do you're a go-getter
01:07:59
yeah um and that that's the um the tragedy and the crime of this whole thing it's like um yeah you started
01:08:06
running in your in you in your 40s um when you got the diagnosis you were the fittest you'd ever been in your life you
01:08:12
know the top 1% of um Fitness for people in your early 50s and this should be the
01:08:17
time of the Life Time of Your Life where you're coming into your own you know and
01:08:20
I want I want a legacy from this like what the good things got come out of it well when I went through cancer first
01:08:28
time round and all my treatment I did some articles that were on stuff about the importance of exercising cancer
01:08:36
because I don't think people I think people are scared of going out and exercising when they're going through
01:08:41
cancer treatment but it's so important so important a lot of the oncologists
01:08:45
and and medical people I've spoken to have said if you could put exercise in a
01:08:48
pill it would be such a dramatic change for people's cancer patient well now I
01:08:54
feel because because I'm I want to be really open about the decisions I've
01:08:58
made about going through the assisted death then maybe I could have a bit of a legacy in helping people understand that
01:09:06
a that it is a thing there's still people who don't realize it's legal in
01:09:08
New Zealand that it's coming up for r at the end of the year to to make sure that
01:09:13
it definitely gets through again but to get people talking about it because it was really hard when when I was going
01:09:20
through I'm lucky at the moment the The Guardian newspaper in in Australia in
01:09:25
the UK has had a whole series of articles about assist to death about about ways to do it like getting the
01:09:32
whole family together rather than just being one person and doctor of getting people together and having it as a bit
01:09:37
of a celebration of your life to go rather than being this secretive thing getting people talking about it and if
01:09:46
by being public about this now I can get someone else talking about it talking to
01:09:52
their family about it or someone else considering it as an option of something that they're willing to voice out loud
01:09:59
then I think it's it's worth it yeah oh you're a good Advocate why why do you
01:10:03
think it is so controversial I think because people link it with suicide and it and it's not
01:10:11
it's not suicide it in my way of thinking I think suicide can be a really tragic thing
01:10:18
where people are ill people who are committing suicide are ill and it's not a choice that they're necessarily
01:10:27
making but the assisted death is actually a a real privilege and it's it's a way to take
01:10:36
control back when you get cancer or you get a disease your control is taken away
01:10:41
from you and you you lose a part of yourself and to be able to be given that control back is is huge and to be able
01:10:50
to make decision to be able to die in a in a painless way with people you love well you know I think people often say
01:10:58
we do that for Animals you know if our if our an animals die and die I don't
01:11:02
think it's you know it's a really good comparison but I don't NE you if you
01:11:06
break a league yeah yeah but but I know what you mean but it is you know we wouldn't see let an animal go through
01:11:13
immense pain and yet in some countries humans are and and why is it such a battle we have a right to life why don't
01:11:21
we have a right to death yeah also you're an incredibly proud person so if you want to leave and be
01:11:29
remembered a certain way then I think that's your decision yeah yeah exactly
01:11:34
um what would your message be for anyone watching this who is not staring death in the face but is perhaps not living
01:11:40
their life to the full oh do something every day that makes you happy that's
01:11:46
something that I've I've done pretty much for the last 5 years since I got
01:11:51
diagnosed and sometimes that's something that makes me happy is going and having
01:11:55
ni ice cream or have a bit of chocolate but sometimes it's do something nice for
01:11:59
somebody else or going to you know ticking off that bucket list I'm lucky because of the career that I've had that
01:12:06
I've had enough money to be able to take off The Bucket List not everybody does
01:12:10
but it doesn't mean you still can't you know go for a nice walk or something so
01:12:14
does it doesn't have to be expensive stuff it's being true to yourself but
01:12:20
doing more things things that make us happy I think that's something that's
01:12:24
really important that enough of us do and being really honest with the people in your
01:12:30
life and what would your final words or message be for people who love you so something that they can uh come back and
01:12:37
watch or listen to you know whenever they want whenever they're having a sad
01:12:41
day I'm so sorry that this has happened that I'm leaving them I really am
01:12:47
I I love them all so much so much and I'm Ed to be leaving them it's too soon
01:12:58
I want another 50 years with them but I but I don't want another 50 years of me just sitting there existing
01:13:06
I I need to do it on my own terms I've got to do this now I know it's the right
01:13:11
thing for me they all know it's the right thing for me it doesn't make it
01:13:15
easy for my sister particularly Linda I just I love her so much and it's just I hate what I see
01:13:25
this is doing to her but we've got to do it and we love each other enough I think you know it's
01:13:31
that what's the song If You Love Someone set them free and she she knows she
01:13:36
loves me enough that she knows this is the right thing for me and Paul yeah just I'm so
01:13:49
sorry is there anything else anything else um that we haven't touched upon today that you'd like to
01:13:56
no I think we've covered a pretty pretty wide area I um you know on the day itself I'm going to have a relatively
01:14:04
small group of people with me but I've got time in the leadup I as much as I can I'm happy to answer
01:14:14
qu questions get people talking about it to try to help people going through the
01:14:20
situation because if it yeah I'm I know I need to be careful and in how I spend
01:14:28
my energy and I want to spend as much time as I can with the people who are really important to me but if I can do
01:14:34
something to raise the awareness more I think that would be a really good thing and it may be that I could have a big
01:14:41
impact by doing an an interview an article or something rather than talking to lots of different people but yeah
01:14:48
that would be awesome yeah well Tracy thank thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to
01:14:56
talk to you cuz I I reached out to your mom to say hey can we do something like this and I was thinking of it as being
01:15:03
just something for my family to have I didn't think it'd be enough information
01:15:07
for it to be commercial and of interest for your actual podcast but um but yeah thank you thank you for giving me the
01:15:14
chance to do this an no you're welcome thank you for the opportunity to do it
01:15:19
um I mean yeah death is one of the certainties of life isn't it it's something we're all going to face yet
01:15:24
it's something that we're all uh terrified of and it's kind of taboo to
01:15:28
talk about it in a way so thank you for shining a torch in particular on the um assisted dying thing yeah um yeah Tracy
01:15:36
Hickman it's been a fabulous life way too short um but I hope it's a fabulous
01:15:43
death as well because you deserve nothing less thank you thank you oh