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Jackson Garden bash welcome to my podcast thank you thanks for having me mat it's great to have you here um first
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of all for anyone that's not um that familiar with rugby uh your position as
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number 10 what does what does number 10 mean number 10 what literally means first five that's where uh I don't know
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we do lots of passing lots of kicking um lots of organizing lots of talking um and not and a lot of tackling so yeah
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it's a good spot to be in it's a good spot to be in yeah and some other number
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10 that people might be familiar with would be like Dan Carter um going way back Grant Fox Bowden Barrett yeah oh
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you took bod's you took bod's job at the Hurricanes oh tried to was wasn't overly
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successful there but yeah I he was sort of who I was under for the first couple years that I was at the Hurricanes um
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and learned a lot I learn a lot off and then he made the move up here so yeah there was a spot there that I held down
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for a couple of years is um yeah no that was cool big boots to full yes yeah how was
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how was that how was that on X or Twitter oh not great to be honest I mean especially the stage of his career that
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he was in he was back toback player of the year I think World Player of the Year um at that stage so um I was never
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trying to be bow and Barrett but yeah obviously there's a lot of people out there especially the hurricane
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supporters that were used to the best player in the world being in that position and that wasn't me um instantly
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so yeah I got I got a bit rough times online but you know you just got to know who to care about really in
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terms of of opinion I suppose it's um it's a blessing and a curse of the sport
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he because the Sport's so popular you do have this at of buying from people but
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just Savage yeah it is uh in all sports over the world it's it's a really
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bizarre thing that um because obviously it's entertainment and people support
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you and they want you to do well um there's a sort and obviously with the access now on social media there's the
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sort of I don't know right that people think they have to to talk [ __ ] about
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other people um and yeah it gets ruthless I'm only small friy so I only coped a little bit but I know some of
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the the big dogs are who have millions of followers when they have a bad game you know it can be message requests can
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be pretty full yeah yeah now you're um you're from like a rugby Dynasty uh like
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just a massive rugby background um so your dad and uncle We're All Blacks um
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your cousins Aaron and Nathan major all blacks and your mom represented New Zealand on Rugby touch rugby basketball
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and hockey you never had a chance did you like you were never going to get a desk job like you were you were destined
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for this yeah whether it was going to be rugby or or just anything physical I think you know and not just them they
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were the ones that went to the highest honors but our whole family is all uh sporty active um so that's all as kids
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we really wanted to be um just like Mom and Dad I guess when when you a kid I found this old book at um home today
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from 19 have you ever seen this book now we've got one of those somewhere in in a
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box somewhere like uh I forget where I got it from I think you bought them at like calex or something so this is um
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the official 1998 rugby super2 handbook on the cover your dad running just behind T Umaga who coincidentally is
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your coach now yeah I was literally just thinking that I haven't thought about
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that book in ages but yeah it's crazy and then there's yeah your dad's your
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dad's in here it's um it's incredible and this is the team you went on to play
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for the Hurricanes yeah um so what are your earliest memories of high performance parents so you you were born
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in denan yeah and then um spent your early years like basically being a kid of a rugby player so you went to the UK
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where your dad was playing yeah so I was born in Den Eden when I was two um that
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got signed to the Hurricanes so that's when we moved up there till I was four
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um and then we went to the UK to where he finished his career um first with London Irish and London and then the
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leads Tes they were called back then um and leads um and honestly I was pretty young we I came back to New Zealand when
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I was eight um and I can't I can't really remember anything of them being
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high performance more that just he was a he was a rugby player and it was awesome
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and we got to go watch him at the stadium and um sometimes we got to go to training and and see him work there but
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it never at that time it didn't click for me that it was a job um and that he
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was a professional athlete it was more just my dad's a man he's a rugby player
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and we we get to follow him around everywhere doing it so so what do you yeah so in the UK you played um like a
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bit of soccer football yeah um yeah that was my main sport when I was over there
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cuz every obviously Everyone likes to play football I'm there so even when I
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first moved back to New Zealand I always had aspirations of playing soccer um but
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just socially it wasn't as popular at primary school so quickly enjoyed rugby
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more um just because all my friends were doing it yeah and how how was that transition like moving back to New
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Zealand as as an 8-year-old and reintegrating back into kiwi Society oh I can't apart from being teased for
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my accent I I think it was it was pretty seamless um New Zealand's a really awesome place and I'm I'm noticing that
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now as a dad as very family Centric very kid Centric um the way the schooling systems run is just very kids focused
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making sure that the kids are happy in in an in a situation situation where they can Thrive so I think that's what I
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felt when I came back um what what do you mean taste for your accent did you did you have like a little English
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accent oh yeah full on did full on I had to I had to train it me and my mom well
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me to my mom used to go home um every day and just try and get rid of it as soon as possible what do you mean I
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can't I'm not going to try and imitate it now um but yeah no I started school
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over there obviously I was at leed's grammar school um for a couple of years
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so yeah full integrated and full-on P um yeah me my brother and my sister all had
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Posh little accents it was the the home videos are so funny now especially a little high pitch English
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accent compared to the way that I speak now so I'm sort of imagining you you
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sounding like like Prince William and Kate Middleton's kid yeah yeah something
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like that so you had to come home and like try and try and sort of like untr unfuck yourself really with yeah yeah
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cuz I get teased and then I'll be saying like peiss off peiss off and then all
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that that's all that people would be saying to me so I'm like [ __ ] get home
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get it cop cup not yet not yet cup cup that that's not it still English unreal
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and um I believe you yeah your your M it's from what I I've read about her
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she's no longer with us and we'll get to that part of part of your story but um
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she encouraged you guys to play every sport Under the Sun yeah that simple as that um the best example I have is sort
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of my my weekly schedule um when I was Junior so so Saturday I would play half a game of soccer at half time I'd get in
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the car and go to rugby play that game um the next day Sunday I'd play rugby
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league um and then through the through the week I'd have basketball for School
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athletics one night a week um yeah really just encouraged us to get amongst as much as we could um and I don't know
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how she logistically took care of that because my kids have done one soccer training a week and trying to fit
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everything in this a lot chaos man yeah it's a lot what was the um thinking behind that just so that you could you
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know attach yourself to something that you love or find I'm sure I'm not sure I
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never got to a age where I was sort of old enough and aware enough to be like why are you doing why are you doing this
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m but I I never didn't didn't enjoy any of it um and anything we didn't enjoy
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mom wouldn't have forced it on us um yeah she was more just facilitating stuff for us to try um and the things
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that we loved we sort of carried on with yeah so um you've recently moved to
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Oakland um because for the 2025 season you playing for um Moana Pacifica and Super Rugby um it feels like this is
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another sort of one of those serendipitous moment so last year you played your 100th game for Wellington um
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which but was the final which you guys won Incredible um the last person to do that was Tana in 2007 and you were
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actually at that game as a kid yeah like a 12 13 12 would have been about that I
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would have still been at Primary School um but yeah that was a pretty a religious thing that we do after North
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game in the morning you know you get few Bo few of the boys together and get some
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tickets and go and watch the Lions and um yeah I remember that game especially there was a really special one I
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remember they were uh giving him the 13th aisle in the stadium I'm giving him
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a big picture on that still wedding on that actually and then and he no me oh yeah the number
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10 and then just I remember him being carried off and everyone giving him a standing o and just he was the man as
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well cuz he was the All Blacks captain and he led the Haka and um we knew him um knew their family quite well so I
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remember being there and it's pretty crazy to think between that and myself that no one else was able to do it um
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yeah it's pretty cool I'm proud of it yeah 18 years gap between him doing it
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and you doing it and um now you're you're collabing again he's your coach
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at Moana Pacifica which is incredible yeah um yes so you debuted for Wellington in 2013 when you were 19 so
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were you just naturally good like at high school you played on your first 15 for like four of your five years right
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yeah which I made it you're how old then uh I would have been 14 going on 15 yes
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that's crazy cuz you're playing some big kids yeah I think it was a combination
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of obviously there's natural ability I've been playing and being around rugby
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for a long time um between year 9ine and 10 I grew about a foot and put on about
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15 kilo so I was actually not too much smaller than everyone um and also Scots College where I went to school at the
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time wasn't traditionally a strong rugby school so yeah the pool of talent wasn't
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wasn't great so there was an opportunity there and yeah four the best years of my life to
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be honest there the older guys on your team that year if they hear like oh that's a bit hurtful mate come
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on I remember when I got there in year n and the first 15 had just lost the division 2 semi-final and the year 13s
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at the time were all saying oh man this is the because that's the best they've
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done in a long time they're like man we're not going to see this for a while
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like this is awesome like let's enjoy it while at last and then just by chance
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sort of we got a good generation came through and we we went up and up but yeah terms of me making in your team
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that that definitely helped but were you were you good like was there like a constant hum around you like um your one
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to watch or you with their talent scouts coming to keep an eye on you and things
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like that I don't know about talent scouts but I was pretty lucky I was amongst all the sort of age gra stuff
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um yeah sort of from under 13s under 14s up to under 16s and 18s I was always amongst the the Wellington teams in that
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or at least traling for them and and around that um always a bit of attention just because of my last name um which
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gets your foot on the door and then the times that I was able to play well obviously it got me
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picked yeah yeah yeah I was thinking about that it must be tough having a name like that or like if you're a llu
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or an or whatever like it's it's a lot of added pressure yeah definitely
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especially among peers when you're young like kids are dumb and that guy's only
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here because of his name only here because of his dead it's like yeah potentially potentially some people
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would be that case but you know your last name might be a foot in the door but you got to open the door and play
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well you get found out if you [ __ ] you they're not going to leave you there
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just because of your name are they exactly if you if you're losing games because you're not good enough like it's
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about winning so what are your Recollections of that day before for Wellington in 2013 when you're 19 were
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you [ __ ] yourself yeah was [ __ ] myself um yeah it's funny that whole season I
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played 12 minutes that that year um Lima Sanger was the 10 um Tim bitman couple old fellas they were they were sort of
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covering that 10 position so I only played 12 minutes and I only got into that game on the bench because someone
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got injured on the last day of training um yeah and I was not a professional professional rugby player back then in
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ter in the way that I viewed the game sort of approached the game approach my training and and all of that so yeah I
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was well out of my depth um the actual game itself was all a blur um all I remember is the first thing that got
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called I from not paying attention at training I didn't know what it was um it was actually Ary and Matt Proctor
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my mates they they it was a move that they had to stand behind me which is a bizarre position or I thought it was a
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bizarre spot for them to be in so I was looking behind me going what's going on
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here and yeah rest's history but I could have been I could have definitely been more prepared yeah are
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you are you familiar with the term impostor syndrome yeah vely yeah it s of means where you're in an environment and
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you're like [ __ ] I'm I'm I'm out of my depth here going to be caught out and um
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a lot of it is like completely irrational um but a lot of it I'm guessing if you're 19 in an environment
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like that with a lot of experienced players um you'd probably be right to sort of feel that way I I I don't know
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of imposter syndrome but definitely naive naive to the to the fact that even though I was young and I there were
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these all blacks and hurricanes and Super Rugby players in front of me I was naive to the fact that if I got called
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on and I was going to play I had to be at the level that they were at to make sure that the team succeeded um yeah I
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probably just thought that it wasn't my time yet so I can just cruise and then
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in a couple years when it is my go you know I'll start taking it seriously so
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yeah I never felt like I shouldn't be there but I was definitely naive definitely naive and what did your dad
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text you after that game because I heard on a another podcast you've done that um
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when you play well your dad sends you like a lengthy sort of text like a paragraph yeah um and when you play
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badly he just sends you like a couple of work on yeah yeah yeah does he still do
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that uh well at the moment he's he's been hard for him to catch games CU I've
00:14:00
been playing in France and then the first couple of preseason games so he waits for the updates on how it went
00:14:04
from me um but yeah now it's it's a lot of short and sharp stuff now I think you
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did well or you know move on to the next type thing but a really cool moment on that game was as we were walking off the
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field after our debuted I just remember looking up at westpack and he was just at the top of the aisle going like this
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and that was pretty cool cuz yeah I knew he was proud of me then that is real cool yeah yeah that
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means a lot um yeah how how close how close are you or how close have you been to making the
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old blacks the old black Squad I don't know if I've ever been terribly close um
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yeah I definitely didn't play consistently enough at Super Rugby I haven't yet so I plan on doing so now um
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for a long enough period of time but mathematically if you think of the there traditionally there's been five New
00:14:52
Zealand Super Rugby teams um five starting tens and normally the three tens in the old blacks get picked from
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there and for a couple of Seasons I was one of the starting tens um for the hurricane
00:15:04
so no calls or anything or anything like that though but well you know Whispers from the coach like hey this could be
00:15:11
your year no no no no no well yeah well explain the difference to me is is it because your positions a really tough
00:15:17
one in terms of depth uh in terms of what not making the All Blacks yeah in terms of like depth
00:15:23
like there's there's just always been like such good good people at number 10
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like we talked about bod before and Dan before that or Damen Mackenzie I don't
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know I'm not sure there's probably been more around my uh ability to lock in for
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long periods of time um because when I have I've been good and consistent but
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it's taken me a long time to find my feet in terms of my professionalism and
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the way I hold myself and the way I sort of approach the game um and the sport as
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a whole why why is that you just you just want a more Balanced Life I know you deep into your family and we'll get into
00:15:56
that stuff later yes well so that's my balance now for a long time my balance
00:16:00
was partying and and my mates and it's funny I S in the change room when I gave my speech after my 100th
00:16:08
game I met my wife just after my 50th or just before my 50th game and I just talked about my purpose for my first 50
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games compared to my second 50 games and just how much more fulfilling my purposes now in terms of playing to make
00:16:23
my kids proud playing to put food on the table for them versus my first 50 I just
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wanted to play well I was in the team each week so I could get paid so I could go to town and feel cool where my where
00:16:34
my lies play to town and feel really cool so um yeah definitely a priority shift in in there
00:16:41
[Music] somewhere I think it's really it's good that you can admit that and and see that
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because a lot of people wouldn't wouldn't want to admit that you know that that it's been their own sort of um
00:16:52
I don't know they their own themselves getting in the way of themselves Yeah
00:16:56
well yeah well it's just something that comes with age yeah um and probably a lot of denial the whole
00:17:02
way through that I was able to do both but at some point if IID flick the switch earlier who knows what could have
00:17:08
happened but I had a lot of fun I've met a lot of good people um a lot of good
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memories uh which I wouldn't change which I wouldn't change but yeah a lot of bad habits created
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that have taken a long time and still taking a long time to sort of work through and come out the other side of
00:17:26
oh like what you want to talk about the bad habits or no uh I I I'm unsure it's it's so
00:17:33
interesting that you ask this now because a lot of that has been accentuated after my brother passed away
00:17:39
and sort of I've been in and out of all of bad habits really struggled with addiction my my whole sort of what do
00:17:47
you call them teenage into into young adult years um and haven't really discriminated on any of them around
00:17:54
drugs drinking gambling uh All the Above um and sort of I think a lot of that especially in those young years of
00:18:04
playing was masked because I was doing that anyway socially everyone around me was sort of doing it I'd always take it
00:18:09
to the to the extreme um but it was isn't sort of since I've had kids and I
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haven't been in situations where I should be doing it and I'm still doing
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some stuff um that it's really had to make make me sit down and confront it and be like this isn't normal um I've
00:18:25
got to get on top of it m yeah thanks for sharing that by the by the way just so we're clear like
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um yeah this is a safe space here so anything that you say that you w't cut out before it goes out um we'll chop it
00:18:38
out so if anyone's listening to this and they're hearing this um spill from me
00:18:41
now um you know that Jackson's good with everything being left in um yeah it
00:18:46
takes takes a lot to admit that stuff um and and um yeah yeah you have been through a lot of adversity for how are
00:18:55
you now 30 yeah yeah you've been through a lot of adversity and yeah we'll get
00:18:59
through that because I I ask um people on the podcast that question like what's
00:19:02
their biggest adversity because no no one gets to sort of um yeah know a bit older than you like 40s or 50s without
00:19:08
going through some adversity and you're 30 and you've been through a [ __ ] ton
00:19:11
like um yeah it's it's pretty [ __ ] actually yeah no yeah [ __ ] yeah I wouldn't
00:19:20
wish some of the experiences I've had on on my West enemy you know it's uh that's
00:19:25
been pretty brutal and started being pretty brutal at a young age and it's seemed to keep coming um yeah okay life
00:19:35
is funny yeah no okay we go if we if we if I say anything or we go over anything
00:19:39
that I'm not comfortable with I'll cut it out but yeah it is what it is okay
00:19:44
cuz um last year 2024 should have been should have like on balance it looks like an epic [ __ ]
00:19:52
year right you you become a dad for the third time um you have you won 100th game for Wellington um you when the is
00:19:59
it still called NPC what's it called yeah yeah you're on [ __ ] fire you're
00:20:04
playing rugby in France you got your family family over there with you yeah yeah everything's going good and then
00:20:09
your um your you know your brother um passes away at the age of 25 which that's how old he was I 25
00:20:19
25 yeah a real Blindside a real Blindside that and the things all the things you mentioned there happened
00:20:25
after he passed away so it's just it's just bizarre I yeah I did a another
00:20:30
podcast recently and I and I said like obviously I played my 100th game for Wellington we won the championship
00:20:38
but I wasn't not supposed to be there like I four months ago four months before
00:20:44
that like I was in France and we' just been in the offseason I was i' just
00:20:49
driven back from Spain the night before and you know I had no thoughts of playing for Wellington at all probably
00:20:55
ever again because I I was doing the overseas thing so yeah that that was pretty confronting on on the on the week
00:21:01
of that final especially in my 100th game everyone saying congrats you know do this for your brother your brother
00:21:06
brought you home for this and I like far out like thanks bro like I'd rather you
00:21:11
didn't you know yes so as was a real bizar trying to trying to give myself permission to be happy in
00:21:20
those moments where I was really feeling [ __ ] you know the birth of my son and
00:21:25
which is one of the be the best fourth equal best moment of my life and at the same time there's this un undertone of
00:21:32
just [ __ ] um so yeah it's pretty put of a mental [ __ ] yeah this is um like a serious
00:21:39
moment of the podcast but what are the four best moments of your life uh three births of my kids on my wedding day oh
00:21:44
yeah oh really really none of the um yeah none of the uh the sporting stuff oh have you asked I'd have a list of top
00:21:51
10 top no no no of my best rugby moments or my my best sporting moments but in terms of what life's actually about
00:21:58
rugby is such a small part of it and it it'll be done in the next 5 or six years
00:22:01
for me probably if I'm lucky or go that long yeah um [ __ ] you know you're
00:22:06
winning it life if you can like categorize like oh these are my top four family moments these are my top four
00:22:10
rugby moments yeah pretty lucky in the sense that my job gives me the opportunity to to to do my dream and
00:22:16
what I've always wanted to do so that's that's always going to be Peak
00:22:20
especially when things are going well um but yeah in terms of the other four moments that's a different kind of joy
00:22:27
and and love that you you don't experience it unless you experience it yeah okay well yeah since we're at this
00:22:34
part now um I reckon we get back to we we'll get back to Connor your brother because
00:22:40
that's that's fairly recent it was June last year a yeah yeah um we'll start
00:22:45
with your mom uh the legendary sug Garden Basher yeah so your parents um separated in 2006 when you were 12 yeah
00:22:52
yeah what are your Recollections of that I mean that's a big thing to go through
00:22:55
as a kid as well yeah that was pretty hectic um I remember when they told us we we're at
00:23:01
McDonald's they took us to McDonald's and it seemed like a casual conversation
00:23:07
um just Mom saying that dad's going to go and live with his friend for a while
00:23:13
and so my brother and sister were very young so I don't think they clocked actually what that what that potentially
00:23:17
meant but I remember the car ride home I went with my mom my brother and sister went with my dad and I was like does
00:23:23
does this mean a divorce I don't I don't know how I knew that that word or
00:23:27
obviously you told the playground about stuff and she said uh I don't know but
00:23:33
potentially and I I was just I was so gutted I was angry I said I was like what the hell this is [ __ ] I didn't
00:23:39
you don't understand what's going on between Mom and Dad but all I could
00:23:42
think was like why why would you like this is [ __ ] and yeah I remember her saying there you know this is it is
00:23:48
[ __ ] I wish this wasn't happening type thing we were crying on the way home
00:23:54
um and then yeah through the separation it was yeah was pretty pretty tense between Mom and Dad
00:24:03
um yeah some traumatic experiences I think there for me that I haven't clocked until I was older that we went
00:24:10
through um but yeah pretty tough it's tough for anyone that goes through that
00:24:14
yes so you were 12 your brother was seven yeah and your sister George Georgia yeah she would have been 10 10
00:24:20
two years and two years apart so you're in that sweet spot where you yeah you're
00:24:24
you're old enough to sort of I don't know I suppose sense it a bit more or
00:24:27
feel a bit more what's going on I think so and even I can tell I was understanding more in the way that I can
00:24:34
remember it even in the way that we speak about how before before Conor passed away we speak about being able to
00:24:40
remember Mom he's saying like Jackson I can't I can't remember much like we like
00:24:45
he was he would have been 8 years old um he's saying like I'm losing my memories
00:24:50
like when you know through not talking about it through just I can't remember
00:24:55
what I was doing when I was 7 years old you know it's pretty hard so I think in the sense that I can remember
00:25:01
a lot yeah or a lot more that that shows how much you do actually take in once you get to sort of pre-teen yeah and
00:25:10
your mom was um when your parents broke up your mom was she already had leukemia
00:25:13
by that point right she had it for years yeah she had she fought it for five years yeah it sounds like she was a
00:25:19
tough woman oh so tough yeah so tough like had a lot from you guys what's head
00:25:24
sorry had a lot from you guys uh I'm not sure like in terms of like you oh it hit
00:25:29
her pain definitely yeah definely yeah that's what I meant unless she couldn't
00:25:32
get off the couch you get off the couch and do and do whatever needed doing um yeah and I it's hard to imagine like the
00:25:40
a concept of time looking back but I'm not sure I can't remember if she ever
00:25:44
had to go into hospital for long stunt before she passed away um I knew she was an outpatient and we'd have to go every
00:25:50
now and then and get chemo and pick up her medicine and that but yeah outside of that they're very good at acting like
00:25:59
she had a lot of energy for us because that's all we ever saw was just mom being
00:26:03
Mom Fu that's a proud woman right there isn't it 100% yeah yeah especially when
00:26:08
I see the when I feel the amount of energy it takes or I see what my wife does for my kids and the amount of
00:26:14
energy it takes from her when you're fully healthy exactly exactly Trucking chemotherapy on top of that and
00:26:20
everything else that's going on you know it's pretty phenomenal and I'm so
00:26:23
grateful she did she pushed through for us cuz she gave us five years of of memories that sh just put her feet up
00:26:29
and you know cop the sickness that we wouldn't have had yeah and she even wrote a kids book um which I only
00:26:36
learned about when I was doing the research for this and um [ __ ] it's heartbreaking the book's called who will
00:26:41
tuck me in and it's basically um there's a line in the book um will we catch
00:26:47
cancer asked Jackson looking worried and it's basically a book it's a like a help
00:26:51
help guide for parents that are going through cancer to help their kids sort of deal with it and it's written in the
00:26:57
first person so you guys are in the in the book as characters yeah yeah have you you must have a copy of it how do
00:27:03
you feel when you see it now oh pretty proud very proud I remember at the time we all the photo all the P illustrations
00:27:11
in there are from photos so the photos that you see of us sitting in bed and stuff we actually had to sit there and
00:27:16
and take a photo and I just remember thinking it was so fun that we were going to be in a book um but it's not
00:27:22
until they I did a interview about mom for sky sport and on my I think my third year of the hurricanes and they bought
00:27:30
me a copy of it and I got to reread it oh man couldn't read it without crying
00:27:35
it's pretty it's pretty special what she's been able to sort of portray and
00:27:40
put in there in regard to I don't know putting it in a way that a child can understand or sort of try and get a
00:27:47
concept of what cancer actually means I'm sure it's been a like a helpful it
00:27:52
was sort of sponsored by I think the Cancer Society so I'm sure it's been
00:27:55
like a really useful resource for you know heaps of other is going through the same thing it's obviously I'm I'm
00:28:01
imagining at the time um when she was going through it she thought why isn't
00:28:04
there something like this she took it upon yourself to do it yeah like I I suppose that's exactly what it is um so
00:28:12
as a as a parent sort of learning how to be a parent there's lots of things that
00:28:16
you're like man how do I have this conversation with my kids about all sorts of different subjects um let alone
00:28:22
the heavy hitter is like like long-term illness yeah so yeah she was very proactive and everything think she did
00:28:28
so she thought [ __ ] it there's not one there let's make it but let's make one
00:28:32
there man that's cool so she so she end up um losing the battle with lukemia in
00:28:37
2008 uh when she was 46 years old um you were 14 um yeah what are your Recollections of that
00:28:44
time uh oh not a lot to be honest I've blocked a lot out for a long time and I
00:28:49
think that's really um inhibited my ability to remember that period of time but yeah it's like a coping mechanism
00:28:56
you think yeah big time um um but yeah yeah pretty ruthless moment that she she went into hospital for a
00:29:04
routine checkup well I think it was a routine checkup um she went into a coma and yeah they told her that they told my
00:29:13
nanny at the time before she passed away that Mom wasn't going to wake up so she
00:29:16
had to the three of us went in um and they told us that that yeah mom's asleep
00:29:23
and she's not going to wake up and yeah that was I don't know yeah was she on like life support at the
00:29:30
time or I don't know if it was life support or just her body was just too weak to to stay awake um and then I
00:29:37
think either that night or the night after she passed away yeah so you're 14 that's a sh it's
00:29:49
a lot to go through yeah yeah I just remember feeling quite numb yeah I remember our dad took us um for a long
00:29:56
walk for a couple hours just long man explanat in the in the beach down in Mana um and I ended up just lagging
00:30:03
behind everyone I just just lost in my head I just I don't know I don't know I
00:30:09
can't remember I was probably trying to gather my thoughts with no ability and
00:30:13
no maturity on on how to just like yeah well you're at that that sort of puberty
00:30:19
age where there's you know there's your hormones racing everywhere and so you
00:30:23
have these feelings but you just can't sort of process them you know you just
00:30:26
don't have the um I don't know that that adult ability to process these things effectively well
00:30:32
it's just tools it's just life experience it's just maturity it's
00:30:36
things that adults don't even get right you know and yeah I go easy on my 13-year-old self
00:30:43
for the way that I handled it cuz I didn't handle it well um you didn't but
00:30:48
I don't blame him in what way like how why didn't you handle it well and what
00:30:51
could you have done better I just I my big thought that I remember having in my head I didn't talk much for one but I
00:30:59
didn't I didn't know how I didn't think I I had to um my the big thought in my
00:31:03
head was I've got to stay strong so that Georgia and Connor think it's going to
00:31:05
be okay um so I cried a lot around when it initially happened but after that just tried to put on a Really Brave face
00:31:13
Brave face um but to do that I had to shut myself out and not think about much so I remember my dad still talks about
00:31:21
it now just the way that I put on put in headphones and just um blast the music with my hood up for the first year
00:31:29
um yeah that's sort of how I handled it just not not handling it m um yeah and this is the time when you
00:31:39
in the the first 15 at school that we were talking about so was that sort of like part of the coping strategy just
00:31:44
like bury yourself in your sport yeah Rugby's always been my outlet that's
00:31:49
probably the one place where I'm most comfortable in myself and and in my ability and the one place where I can
00:31:55
really lock in and just just think about being in the present yeah um so that the
00:32:02
end of year n was when mom passed away and I think another part which was awesome
00:32:07
for my life and a really good part of my life was the boarding house but it also being amongst 13 and 14 year olds
00:32:15
wasn't a space where I can be sad or if I was it's not like people are going to
00:32:21
come and have proper conversations with me about that um yeah there's no vulnerability at a board again no way
00:32:28
start crying get teased yeah oh your your yeah if you show some vulnerability it just be potentially be weaponized
00:32:35
against you yeah exactly next time there's a flare up so so a lot of that time was spent either just having fun as
00:32:41
per just blocking everything out playing rugby and then every now and then probably I'd say between year 10 and
00:32:46
year 12 there'd be like two two days a year where something would happen and
00:32:50
then I'd just break down crying wouldn't be able to leave the boarding house I'd
00:32:54
call Dad he'd come pick me up and we i' just go home and cry for a day and then
00:32:58
go back to school the next day and sort of repeat process um so yeah that's how I handled it
00:33:09
didn't I suppose with the tools you had you handled it the best way you possibly
00:33:13
could at the time I don't know like for a 14y old I feel like I feel like that's probably
00:33:19
fairly standard yeah well that's why I go easy on on myself and and upon reflection did did you was there like a
00:33:26
housem or your dad or any relatives that tried to sort of um you know push you into therapy or anything like that um I
00:33:34
can't remember specifically about being pushed into therapy if someone had ever
00:33:37
tried to talk to me about it I would have just said oh now I'm all good and just all good the now all good bro yeah
00:33:42
now all good you know all good yeah um cuz like you said I just didn't have the
00:33:47
tools I didn't understand that you need to deal with things um I didn't understand even if I knew that I
00:33:52
wouldn't have known how to um so yeah that's a that's learned thing over the years yeah and what about
00:33:59
lessons from I know you were very young when she passed but lessons from her that um have stuck with you to this
00:34:05
day um a funny well a funny one that me and my wife disagree on it no not disagree
00:34:13
on but have different philosophies is we had we had these uh make your own pottery plates that we would write on
00:34:21
and she wrote on one and said the injury checklist is it bleeding is there a bone
00:34:25
sticking out is it noticeably dis swed if no keep playing so she was real tough and in
00:34:33
that sense like just a real goget her um I think i' I learned more when I reflect on the way that she was around
00:34:41
her friends like these days when I think back she started a group with her close
00:34:45
friends called the black spots um which was a combination of me and my brother sister's par uh moms and she would put a
00:34:52
black spot in their letter box just with a location and a time and they all had in their letter box and they all had to
00:34:57
turn up and she'd make them do stuff like break dancing classes play rugby go
00:35:02
jump off the WF just just real connection pieces for her and her mates and I know she really valued her friends
00:35:09
um and I think that's something that's really inspiring and and something that
00:35:13
I um have taken a lot from over the last few years can I just pause and say you're you're really really good at
00:35:21
articulating this now like um I'm trying to think when I was 30 I I I don't think
00:35:27
I would have um if I'd been through what you had I don't think I'd be at a point
00:35:31
where I can articulate it the same way you can it's really refreshing cool you've done a lot of work I can tell
00:35:37
yeah it is a lot of work it's a lot of understanding because a lot of when I
00:35:43
first started to try first started trying to talk about this stuff lots of lumps in throats lots of wanting to cry
00:35:51
and then trying to hold it back and then and holding it back not wanting to talk
00:35:56
about it but it was one of my dad's mates after Conor passed away he he had also lost
00:36:03
someone close to him and he said man you got to you got to hope that you cry a lot you got to hope that that never
00:36:09
stops because it's just waves of love and it's just the more that you cry the
00:36:13
more that you love the person so I'm not scared to be sad about it um and through just practice and
00:36:22
understanding that I need to talk about it to keep the memories alive and um you
00:36:29
know make my kids hear the stories um my wife my wife never met my mom so make sure that she can hear the stories
00:36:38
um but yeah it is learned and I and I had to sort of force myself into it over the last few years and still still
00:36:45
working on it because yeah botling it in doesn't work for me no no it doesn't
00:36:50
work for anyone it's like um yeah it's like um you go to the gym you clothes and you stuff them in a bag
00:36:58
put them in the bird of a car it's just going to get worse and worse and eventually you're going to have to deal
00:37:02
with it one day right that's a great analogy it's not going anywhere I had um
00:37:08
this guy's before your time but this guy Mark Graham is's considered like one of
00:37:11
the hardest um rugby league players of all time um and his um when he was coaching the Warriors in the early 2000s
00:37:17
his son um ended up taking his own life I had him on the podcast and I talked to
00:37:22
him about it and he goes he goes oh I'd rather not talk about it he goes this is
00:37:25
probably not the correct way to deal with it but I find if I think about it and talk about it it hurts so I just try
00:37:30
not to talk about it I thought fair play to you yeah yeah if that's your coping
00:37:35
strategy then that's fine but but it hurts cuz he loved them yeah if there's
00:37:40
one thing to say to him it's a good thing that it hurts yeah you know it didn't hurt you probably didn't care
00:37:46
yeah when do you when do you miss her most my mom uh big events weddings funerals birthdays um
00:37:58
yeah anything around that where like when I when I look at my sister getting married and her mom was
00:38:03
there she's Lo she's lost her her dad so she's feeling sad as well but you know
00:38:08
just thinking that my mom wasn't going to be able to be at my wedding she would
00:38:11
won't meet my kids um big stuff like that that you just you know you want to
00:38:16
share with your mom yeah MH the stuff I love sharing with my dad it's like man I
00:38:21
wish I could share this with mom as well yeah yeah it's almost like survivors bu in away cuz you know you
00:38:28
know that the F that should have cuz how much would mean to her being there 100%
00:38:34
100% man I'm real sorry for your loss no appreciate that um yeah let's talk about your wife for a
00:38:42
bit and then we'll um we'll get into your bro so your wife Rosie when did
00:38:45
when what's the meet cute when did you guys meet uh we met in 2018 I think it
00:38:50
was um was this in your party years yep very much so is this I heard about a flat yearning called um Bull Street who
00:38:56
told you about bull I heard it on another podcast and uh it was like it's Infamous for that you know the the um
00:39:03
the story you told on this podcast was it was like a it's like a mini version
00:39:06
of the big day out or a festival so your room was like the drum and bass room it
00:39:10
was like themed rooms yeah what the [ __ ] you didn't get your bond back at the end
00:39:14
of the year did you no no way no way that at the back end of about four years of that sort of carry on so yeah some
00:39:20
great memories in there and one of them was meeting my wife so right but so this
00:39:24
um this ball Street party flat is running alongside um your your professional rugby career yeah yeah so
00:39:30
the the the coaches hated bu Street cuz it was right in the middle of of Wellington so you could a f minute walk
00:39:36
to Courtney Place massive five bedrooms with a big backyard so it was yeah it was really easy to get to after games on
00:39:43
the way to town yeah it was good it was good good memories goodies so yeah so how did you meet your wife did she end
00:39:48
up at a party there or yeah so one of her good mates um moved in just as a flat mate and we whenever someone moved
00:39:55
in have a we housewarming for them um I think it was a Monday night no it would have been a weekend should have
00:40:01
been a weekend but anyway she she came she came along um and yeah just got to know got to know each other over that
00:40:08
night and over the coming weeks and then she eventually moved into our flat as a
00:40:13
flat mate and one of one of the rules was that I had to stop getting with her if she was going to move in obviously
00:40:18
yeah nodded rules yes of course but I didn't stop um yeah and then here we are
00:40:27
amazing you got pregnant quite quite early on eh yeah yeah so we've been seeing each other for about 5 months I
00:40:33
think and when she got pregnant how was that was that scary um you don't really know after 5
00:40:40
months do you or did you know I def definitely think I knew um I wasn't looking for anything serious at that
00:40:48
time but yeah it managed to stuck uh in terms of finding out that we were pregnant she was a lot more scared than
00:40:56
I was so she called me up texted me and said we need to talk got in the car she was crying I'm pregnant and I was a lot
00:41:04
calmer than she was I was like I'm very I'm quite matter of fact um and I just
00:41:09
said we can afford this we we love each other um if you want to keep it we'll be
00:41:16
sweet we'll we'll figure the rest out and um she she always was going to keep
00:41:21
it and yeah I had no issues with [Music] that yeah and oh is this when you started therapy I I heard that that she
00:41:30
sort of forced you guys to go to ka's therapy yeah not not forced but I'm
00:41:34
trying to think when we started mie was definitely mie was definitely a baby um but at the time it was just
00:41:42
because we were so young and we hadn't been together for very long she was just
00:41:46
exploring options and ways to teach us how to communicate better with each other um through sort of how to deal
00:41:54
with life and being parents at such a young age age she was only 21 at the time um in a space where we were trying
00:42:01
to figure out our relationship like full stop like we were only together for five
00:42:06
months um obviously before she got pregnant so I I think it was Mal was definitely born um when we started going
00:42:14
and yeah we've been going ever since yeah where did she get that idea from That's Crazy Wisdom like it's so I
00:42:21
don't say she forc you in in a in a bad way it's just like um just wisdom Beyond
00:42:25
her years to think okay if we if we're going to make a real goal of this and
00:42:28
make this work then we need you know tools of communication like most people would think of um like C counseling as
00:42:34
ambulance of the bottom of the cliff sort of stuff um but to go there as a tool to make the relationship healthy
00:42:41
before it gets unhealthy is um go excuse me it's um some yeah did you get the
00:42:47
idea from like a family member is she religious or no I'm not sure where she
00:42:51
got it it was it's definitely not like we're a perfect relationship and and she
00:42:55
said right let's go to couples counseling but yeah she was definitely proactive in in the sense that there's
00:43:02
some stuff going on here that we don't know have the ability to deal with ourselves let's go and figure out how to
00:43:07
deal with it um before it becomes a real issue um yeah and over the years there have been some real issues that that
00:43:14
therapist has help helped us through and helped us communicate through but yeah know she's a wise woman already Rosy oh
00:43:22
relationships are tough and life's tough and um you know you realize um you to
00:43:26
keep these things going like it does require work yeah 100% 100% especially when you're figuring out who you are
00:43:33
yourself as a as an individual and yeah so you guys have got three now mchu your
00:43:38
youngest was born last year do you do you still want seven no a podcast I heard from you in 2020 I
00:43:46
think you said you wanted seven kids yeah so when we first met we both said seven just without having spoken to each
00:43:52
other that came down after we had one it came down again after we had two so um we hoping that the next one's a girl
00:44:00
because we have P promised Mary that we' try for a sister um yeah of our four a
00:44:05
boy then conversations all need to be had oh so you're definitely going back
00:44:09
for round four yeah yeah oh yeah I speak for myself yeah I'm pretty sure Rosy's
00:44:13
came I'm pretty sure yeah no no we definitely came for four so she's at home with like a what like a
00:44:20
six-month-old at the moment yeah I'm just gone five yeah five sure it's the
00:44:23
last that got him on right right now ah who knows yeah um get them out the way yeah there was a real special moment
00:44:30
where for that 100th game for Wellington that we're talking about before you
00:44:33
walked out onto the field with um Rosie and your three kids yeah yeah yeah that's Peak life for me you know that's
00:44:41
uh the team that I've loved the most for a long time it's uh anaz an achievement
00:44:47
I'm so proud of walking out with the four achievements I'm I'm most proud of
00:44:51
as well so yeah that's cool I'm I'm glad through a lot of life perspective I was able to
00:44:58
just be in that moment real presently and and soak that in cuz there's not many people that get to do that
00:45:06
um yeah it's cool to think back on man and so cool with media these days how
00:45:11
accessible that's going to be forever um with much as an adult and he can look
00:45:16
back at we baby him going out and Mary and Milo too that's that's pretty cool
00:45:21
yeah yeah you're so right there'll be video on YouTube or if you Google it
00:45:25
it's going to be there somewhere forever yeah it's really cool so the the
00:45:29
counseling you guys got like what what did you get from that like did you find it like an eye opening experience did
00:45:34
you did did you realize oh maybe I could use this um you know in a different capacity to help with you know
00:45:39
processing mum and um yeah there was a lot of sort of indiv individual reflection within it in terms of
00:45:46
figuring out and understanding the ways that I communicate or don't communicate
00:45:52
um and understanding why that is the case um understanding that the way that I see the world or believe
00:46:00
things should be handled isn't how everyone handles it especially Rosie um and just giving the tools sort of
00:46:07
to communicate calmly and try and see things from each other's perspectives were you not that good at
00:46:14
communicating do you think or just a different communication style um definitely not good at commun both a
00:46:21
different communication style and not very good at it um yeah so yeah my ability to be open and honest uh and
00:46:29
vulnerable has taken a long time and still not perfect but it's always been hard for me
00:46:35
um but yeah working on it and that was definitely one of the things that needed the most
00:46:40
work mate I'm I'm I'm jealous of like where you're at and the work you've done
00:46:44
like I'm I'm 52 and I reckon uh I was probably 45 when I started you know
00:46:49
doing the Deep work um so you you've got a massive jump on me and I think a lot
00:46:54
of young guys as well I think the stuff that you're talking about um you your
00:46:58
early 20s I think that's probably fairly typical right you know just the the poor
00:47:03
communication style or you know not being good at vulnerability and stuff like that yeah I think so accentuated by
00:47:08
the fact that we were going to have a kid um and that we were committing to be together yeah um definitely meant that
00:47:15
had to try and sort that stuff earlier um than I was definitely planning to so yeah yeah it was important and um you
00:47:24
guys seem like a tight unit so you've you've um done some stints playing rugby
00:47:28
in Japan and France and um a lot a lot of people a lot of rugby players that do that they'll go over there themselves
00:47:35
for a season or whatever and leave the family behind but you traveled as a unit yeah how is how was Japan like were you
00:47:41
living in an apartment or yeah we shoe box two bed two-bedroom apartment with a um little tatami room so yeah that was
00:47:47
that was hectic with a one and twoyear old um yeah I can't imagine but we we
00:47:52
were always going to move around together at that stage of the kids lives cuz it was easy to move move them um I
00:47:57
think now that Marley's starting school and Mary will start school um next year
00:48:03
it becomes a lot harder to uproot and move so easily um so yeah that that was that was very tough very tough on Rosie
00:48:11
moving overseas but um it was definitely the right decision given the fact that soon we won't be able to move the
00:48:19
kids that easily we don't want to yeah cuz that could feel real isolating for
00:48:23
her as well like being in a country like Japan where you can't speak the language
00:48:26
um I went over there a few years ago the public transport system it's really hard
00:48:30
to navigate had my translator app up trying to yeah that was going crazy um so with homesickness and everything else
00:48:37
and you know in a home with a 2-year-old and one-year-old like you know it could
00:48:41
create real tension in a relationship if the relationship wasn't tight oh definitely definitely and I think
00:48:48
especially with with young kids it's hard to socialize you got to plan everything around the around the babies
00:48:54
um we got lucky both in Japan and France said the the group of foreigners there were were awesome
00:49:00
um yeah Rosie got tight with a couple couple of girls in both spots that really help look after each other um but
00:49:08
yeah just in general it's it's very hard it's so easy as a as a player to go into
00:49:12
to move over there I go to work not looking after the kids don't have to plan anything for them I go and meet a
00:49:18
squad full of friends um I have a purpose every day I go and train hard we got a game on the weekend like I'm
00:49:24
looking forward to that that's what I want to do um so yeah definitely a lot
00:49:28
of sacrifice that I never I never sort of appreciated and imagined would have to be happening from my partner until we
00:49:36
lived it is is the money good for those things those stints overseas if you're
00:49:40
like a Super Rugby level player in New Zealand and you go over there yeah is it yeah there's defin especially sort of
00:49:45
the motivation for doing it really I I'd say yeah I'd say so I'd say so the the
00:49:49
money in Japan and France is a lot better than it is here um but yeah after my two years I sort of
00:49:56
that into way out what is money worths versus time away from home and being away from the place you love and people
00:50:03
you love Yeah cuz the homesickness thing must play um a real part yeah because you were in France last year when you
00:50:10
heard the news about the brother your brother Connor and that's when you you
00:50:14
like you abandoned your contract early and came home yeah so there there was some contract contractual stuff that was
00:50:19
going on there anyway um but I was still signed to stay there for another year at
00:50:23
least um and yeah got the we were hopping in the car to go somewhere got the call from my sister heard the news
00:50:32
within 2 hours we were on our way to Bordeaux um with our bags just ready to fly to to London to meet my sister and
00:50:39
then back here so you know the dry was still on I'm pretty sure and everything
00:50:44
was just as is so oh so it was your sister that gave you the news yeah she called me she she was in London at the
00:50:50
time yeah yeah she she lives there with a with her fiance um I'd had a couple of
00:50:55
calls from my cousin Aaron major you spoke about before um and then yeah wasn't uh Georgia called Rosie and got a
00:51:03
hold of it and said put Jackson on and she broke the news to me strong girl strong
00:51:12
woman yeah that's um yeah she she's younger than you as well not that I mean
00:51:17
even yeah regardless it's it's it's a call that no siblings should ever have
00:51:21
to have to make can you remember the call yeah um yeah well it was very short before I
00:51:29
just the I was obviously overwhelmed but were you confused you think it was a joke or well when she
00:51:38
said the tone in her voice I could tell something was wrong I was playing over I
00:51:42
never thought it was Connor I never ever would have thought it was Connor she said and I don't know how to tell you
00:51:46
this but Connor passed away last night and I just remember being like do you mean our Connor like our brother Connor
00:51:53
and she was like yeah and I was just yeah I was on the floor after that she was obviously and tears on the
00:51:59
other end and just sort of held the phone by my ear I couldn't say anything or anything like that
00:52:05
um and the rest is a real blur the rest is a real blur yeah the next yeah 24 48 100 hours or whatever what do they look
00:52:14
like just throw some [ __ ] in a bag and book a flight yeah so we we just Ro Rosie and George's fiance Luke were
00:52:22
superheroes in the sense that they just handled the logistics um which yeah so grateful for um they but
00:52:30
yeah they were just straight on booking flights I'm planning it all out um quickly had to find a ride to bordeau
00:52:36
which one of the my teammates over there did um and they had just put everything
00:52:42
in the bags that we thought we'd need um we didn't know if we were going back to
00:52:47
France or not and then just it got to London was the first step because Georgia was there so got got to got to
00:52:54
there saw her and then the next day we flew home m but yeah real blur real blur the flight
00:52:59
home was we obviously booked it really late last minute so we were we were all split up and I remember it was just me
00:53:04
in a empty seat and an old lady and I just remember looking out the window and she must have just thought I was mad
00:53:09
just crying the whole time or just you know in and out of not even watching a movie or anything just staring at the
00:53:16
seat staring out the window intermittently bursting into tears just yeah yeah it was just such a
00:53:27
you just come switch back to reality and be like why am I on this plane or it's
00:53:30
because your brothers passed away and it's like far out what are we actually
00:53:34
flying back to right now it's just like didn't want it to be real yes that was um yeah 17th of June
00:53:42
last year um and the media reported at the time is it being a medical event what was that like a heart thing
00:53:50
or uh suspected heart thing still still not 100% sure they're doing a lot of
00:53:56
research search at the moment um around like the coroners the coroners thing came back and it was the only
00:54:04
thing that was wrong or out of the ordinary was a slightly enlarged heart but that's not unheard of or it's pretty
00:54:11
normal for athletes to have a slightly en larged heart just musle based on the occupation yeah um so at the moment it's
00:54:19
still unsolved there's some blood tests as blood got sent to Switzerland I think
00:54:23
it is um that'll come back with a lot of genetic uh information to see if there
00:54:29
was anything in the genes um all of us are getting tested as well to see if there was if we have something in our
00:54:34
jeans as well that might might have been but yeah no real Clarity that's terrifying bizar his last post on
00:54:42
Instagram was just like a basically tribute post saying how much how much he enjoyed playing for the Highlanders last
00:54:47
year um yeah and then to think yeah a couple of couple of weeks later like a fit and healthy young man in his 20s can
00:54:53
be gone it's um yeah it's crazy purifying it is it is crazy what was your last conversation or text
00:54:58
exchange with him um two two notable notable facetimes I had with them um the first one was him his
00:55:07
interview piss up with the Highlanders and they were all were in their Club jerseys as I remember I couldn't hear
00:55:11
them cuz they were allow but um he just had the he just had the phone up sort of
00:55:15
going like this with a drink just sort of like just being wasted and I was like love you bro looks like you're having
00:55:20
fun um and then the last time I spoke to him was after our team's end of year and
00:55:26
I'd parked my car on the other side of town was about 15 minute walk away and I
00:55:30
was walking back there and um just facetimed him CU I was bored and yeah and we were and we were just talking and
00:55:36
he just sorted his deal with um his Japanese Club um which he was excited about we sort of talking about what what
00:55:43
his thoughts were behind it and he's yeah potential to go over there for five
00:55:47
years and potentially become Japan eligible um and all this stuff um just a real casual conversation yeah it's
00:55:55
pretty like obviously his messages are pinned at the top of my text and it's just so how nonchalant how last
00:56:03
messages were it's just it's just crazy to to think that that was that was it
00:56:07
well you don't know the significance of it do you you no way of knowing yeah and
00:56:12
what was um yeah tell me about Connor and in particular like your relationship with
00:56:16
him Connor was awesome in terms of and our relation quite a big age Gap with yeah I was going to say it developed
00:56:23
over the years finished as best friends um but here that age group at that age Gap you think about 5 years between like
00:56:31
between a 10-year-old and a 5-year-old 5-year-olds are bloody annoying so a lot a lot of the time gr up was me giving
00:56:37
him hidings for being annoying um oh there's a power IM balance there you bully yeah well he he was a he was a
00:56:45
little [ __ ] he was a little [ __ ] he he always cheated at games he always super
00:56:49
competitive wanted to win everything so I had to bring him back down and play by
00:56:53
the rules it's your duty as an older brother exactly but um I didn't really
00:56:58
start appreciating him him as a brother until I went to boarding school um so I only saw him for two days a week which
00:57:05
was on the weekends um so in small doses I I really grew to be able to deal with
00:57:10
that better and and and understand him more and um and love him more I guess um and then just into adulthood I just
00:57:20
became genuine peers just he'd be he'd be the one that I talk to for advice or let him know what's
00:57:26
going on or for yeah for anything yeah I he did a podcast um and he said you were his Idol which I thought was
00:57:37
really cool yeah that's the reason why I still wasn't able to listen to that
00:57:41
podcast yeah um cuz yeah I never even listened to that while while he was alive yeah this
00:57:48
is a podcast by the way called um uh beyond the surface yeah which you've been a guest on as well yeah well the
00:57:53
reason I went on is cuz Connor did it and I was like that's a Time Capture that I want to be able to give the
00:57:58
people that I love um something that I'm grateful grateful for I messaged Noah
00:58:03
about a month after con of passed away just saying thanks for I'm so grateful
00:58:07
that this is here and it's always going to be here but yeah to to actually hear that
00:58:13
something that that I took for granted I just I'm just big brother you know um but when he's talking about running
00:58:20
out for his debut as the Lions and from his perspective and getting to run out behind me as his Idol and just just
00:58:26
saying how cool that was where at the same time that's one of my best memories
00:58:29
and I'm thinking I think he was in front of me and I'm thinking this is awesome
00:58:33
my baby brother we doing this at the same time so just to know that we were we were Aline there like yeah that's a
00:58:40
pretty cool thing to hear um pretty cool thing to feel was it more enjoyable playing um with him or playing against
00:58:47
him oh we we had fun we we had fun regardless but I I definitely enjoyed playing with him there no worry of him
00:58:54
running around me what would he say if he was here to defend himself hey would he be calling
00:59:00
[ __ ] on that no I don't know I don't know we we had fun regardless he he
00:59:06
didn't take life too seriously all kind of um yeah we were playing against each
00:59:11
other um hurricanes vers Highlanders and we we ended up marking each other we never got to actually the ball didn't
00:59:17
come our way but he was saying mismatch mismatch over here mismatch over here and I was giving him [ __ ] back but I
00:59:24
know it was actually a mismatch if he got the ball run around the outside CU I've had um
00:59:30
yeah one of the Crusaders coaches um James Marshall I've had him on the podcast and he talked about when he was
00:59:35
playing against his brother um and he said it was [ __ ] tense that week it was I think it was the NPC final maybe
00:59:40
Wellington taneki and um they didn't talk that week and it was awkward for their parents and everyone oh yeah
00:59:46
sounds like no we'd be more jokey leading up but bus this time on the field like we were definitely going to
00:59:52
compete and try win um but yeah I'd always give him [ __ ] uh sort of we'll be trying to figure out
00:59:59
when our offseasons will be and if the um if the finals are in June I'll be like oh yeah you guys will be off by May
01:00:06
don't worry you can start [ __ ] holidays by May Conor don't worry what an
01:00:10
[ __ ] oh that's cool that's really special now how's his um his yeah he's a
01:00:15
dad of uh twins how's his partner and his kids doing um his kids are beautiful
01:00:22
um yeah his baby pictures look just like their baby pictures um that's another
01:00:28
relationship that as a family we're working on at the moment um not not always easy to sort of navigate that
01:00:34
with their mom um and her new partner just sort of trying to figure out how we can best I don't know fulfill the wishes
01:00:42
of of Connor um to them um has been has been tricky at times um but we're hoping
01:00:48
that it gets um to a to a really good place where we can do what we said after you passed away and be there for the the
01:00:56
as much as much as we can yeah it's just it's a shitty thing for everyone to navigate isn't it it's
01:01:02
tough oh do it did he have the twins without telling you so you didn't so what was that so so got his
01:01:11
partner pregnant and what did did he not tell anyone no he hadn't told anyone so
01:01:15
so he wasn't actually he's not with he wasn't with the mom oh okay so I don't
01:01:19
know if that was a part of why it didn't tell us but yeah nine months didn't tell
01:01:24
anyone and it was just before for um just after Marley had been born so it was going to be my first Father's Day
01:01:30
and we were just hanging out downstairs at my house and I I said we just had a quiet moment and I was like man I can't
01:01:35
believe like I'm a dad and this is going to be my first Father's Day and he goes
01:01:38
me too and I was like what the hell he's got someone pregnant not completely like
01:01:45
unreasonable and I was like what do you mean is someone pregnant she yeah she was and I was like what do you mean is
01:01:51
the baby already born he goes yeah they are and I was like oh my goodness so just keep snowb
01:01:56
first of all yeah why um yeah did you get to the bottom of that like why did he not feel like he could I'm not
01:02:03
sure we had a couple of Ys about it um but yeah no I've never really got I I
01:02:09
don't know if he just didn't want to I don't know admit to himself that he was
01:02:13
going to be a dad cuz I know that he he struggled with that especially early on in the in the pregnancy cuz he wasn't
01:02:19
chasing kids at that point um and then probably just a bit of I not not shame but once you haven't talked
01:02:27
about it how do you start talking about it until and then I guess you had no choice once they were born well yeah it
01:02:33
gets to the point of no return like I've LIF it too late to sort of bring it up
01:02:37
now yeah oh no they might they might judge me because it's been five months so I judged them at nine months that's
01:02:43
great there's um this photo I found online like um an iconic photo actually of yeah you guys there's a sequence of
01:02:49
photos was that was that rilly Shield or no there was EMP final down in Christ Church yeah so you guys won yep we we
01:02:55
just won down down there man and found the camera found the cameraman and said this will be one for the ages no to be
01:03:02
honest I didn't I didn't think anything about it but since since he's passed
01:03:07
away and looking at looking at that photo more and more and there's the one where he's pouring a beer into the
01:03:11
trophy tongue out oh it's just how amazing is it that that me and my brother were able to do that together
01:03:20
that's so cool yeah how do yeah yeah so makes you happy when you see it now yeah
01:03:26
um yeah how how long was it before you could find happiness in it in moments like that and not just sadness uh oh
01:03:34
straight away M but yeah but it's just the Spectrum sometimes it makes me feel sad that
01:03:42
it'll never happen again sometimes it makes me feel super grateful that it ever did happen
01:03:48
um and just that yeah just understanding that either way is fine like it is what
01:03:54
it is um yeah cuz like I say the sadness about it is cuz I loved him the happiness
01:04:01
about it is cuz I loved him all the all the feelings I feel I feel about it it's
01:04:04
just cuz I loved him and I'm so proud of that photo in particular but just that
01:04:09
he was my brother yeah [ __ ] you can see how proud he was of you as well yeah yeah
01:04:16
how how long was it before you could talk about him like this without you know getting
01:04:20
emotional uh so it hasn't been that long like eight months now yeah eight months
01:04:25
um um I'm not sure I think I I took a lot of learning of how I didn't talk about
01:04:32
Mom and how that's affected me over the years and now I don't want to handle it
01:04:37
like that again so as much as possible I I want to be able to talk talk about them is it's hard and to I don't know
01:04:46
socially how do you start that conversation I know people are probably wondering the same thing like can they
01:04:51
talk about Connor but yeah it is what it is I don't yeah I don't really know how to answer
01:04:58
that cuz sometimes I still get sad too sad to talk about him but yeah I think what you said before was um was I I had
01:05:06
a guy on the podcast called Mark Longley and his daughter got murdered by her partner um in the UK in 2011 and um so
01:05:14
similar experience to you except um he was flying in the other direction but so he got the phone call he said your
01:05:19
daughter's dead you need to come over he said the whole plane right over he was
01:05:22
like I don't believe it until I see it with my eyes then went to the morg and
01:05:26
he goes he saw her there and he still didn't believe it um he thought it was
01:05:31
her playing a joke perhaps then touched her her skin and it was freezing cold and he knew then it was for real um but
01:05:37
talking about his grief he said um he's recognized over the years that um he
01:05:42
wants to feel sad about it because if he doesn't feel sad it means you know the
01:05:46
love wasn't big enough or whatever similar thing to what you said before yeah and that's probably that's pretty
01:05:51
hard thing to sort of understand and I I suppose learn until you're actually in a
01:05:58
place where you're so sad that that that those sort of experiences are happening
01:06:01
and then to be there and then also to find that level of understanding is is hard and it's it's taken a few loved
01:06:08
ones passing away for for me to for me to understand that yeah have you um been seeing a therapist to deal with the
01:06:15
Conor stuff um I saw a few counselors um down in Wellington I I didn't get much
01:06:21
out of them to be fair um a lot of sort of cookie cutter stuff they will say that think think nice thoughts and if
01:06:29
you're feeling angry get in the gym and think the thoughts while you're getting
01:06:32
rid of them I I don't I don't get too much out of that cuz I'm not worried about the sadness
01:06:39
and the grief I I've started seeing a psychiatrist to sort of understand the
01:06:43
the bad habits that I get into when I'm in those dates and the actual physical
01:06:48
response that I have um and dealing with stuff and how I can not do that um but yeah I know I know some level some
01:06:58
form of professional help is definitely necessary it's just finding the right
01:07:02
one um and the psychiatrist I just met him for the first time last week he seems really cool so I'm seeing him
01:07:07
again tomorrow yeah we had to like juggle this um uh podcast timing around um because
01:07:15
yeah because it was supposed to be at the same time as your appointment with your um psychiatrist um and I fully
01:07:21
respect um that yeah there's there's no way that you know I was going to say no
01:07:25
don't go to the cancel that cancel that this is need to get on the podcast oh no
01:07:29
no no no yeah we could have we could have rescheduled this another time completely like it just didn't it didn't
01:07:34
matter you know I when um Bella who um booked you as a guest said you had a therapy session that was like oh [ __ ]
01:07:41
this is cool I got full respect for that um yeah yeah so much you've been through what what's the um therapist
01:07:51
said in terms of um you you sort of touched earlier upon the bad the bad habits that you lean into when you're
01:07:56
dealing with this sort of adversity what's some of the tips to avoid that that other people could use potentially
01:08:02
um oh so so last week was very much just like a preliminary meeting with him we did lots of tests lots of um sort of
01:08:10
questionnaires to sort of actually dive deeper into the way that I think and the
01:08:14
way my brain works um and from that he said oh there's a there's a couple of
01:08:20
things that might be there that are I don't know making it hard for you to stare away from those things got things
01:08:27
like ADHD um potential bipolar which is a which is a huge scary word but he didn't seem to think so but I'm doing
01:08:33
more tests for that tomorrow um and then from there he'll put he'll put a plan in
01:08:39
place for me um which is cool it was the first time anyone's really dived into
01:08:44
how did you act when you were a kid how did you act after your mom like what sort of thoughts were you having during
01:08:50
all those times to what you can remember and what what's happening now for you
01:08:53
and sort of putting to putting the pieces together to sort of figure out what's actually goes on um in different
01:09:02
stages of this grief and in this life yeah you I mean we've only been chatting for like an hour and a bit but
01:09:09
um yeah you don't seem to have any sort of walls up he like um yeah you you're
01:09:14
really good at talking about this vulnerability stuff yeah well I have to be uh I couldn't I'm trying really hard
01:09:22
in life when ask questions just to be honest m um obviously I'm getting a lot of asked
01:09:28
a lot of questions here so it was a lot of honesty but it's it's good practice
01:09:32
for when it happens in general do you do you get media training and stuff in rugby uh we did I did get a little bit
01:09:39
of media training like sort of like what we talking about before but it's it's
01:09:42
changed over the years um yeah we talked about this off the year before we went in so they um yeah at the stud of you
01:09:48
you've been around for so long at the study your career it was like he cheers
01:09:53
oh no yeah how do you feel about that being like one of the old guys now in the it's a privilege right yeah I feel
01:09:59
bad for giving all the old guys [ __ ] when I was younger cuz the older I get the more I realize H doesn't care it
01:10:04
creeps up doesn't matter creeps up so fast as well but no it's cool it's cool
01:10:08
to be in a place of experience and and maturity where you can where the game is more than just playing it's about
01:10:14
developing people um developing connections within the group and playing a p and all of that's fun um but yeah
01:10:20
the the media training has has changed a lot I they used to get a a guy in and it's say sweet would practice questions
01:10:27
that were asked and we'd have to try and get it back to a particular topic that
01:10:31
the team was focusing on that week so it might have been I don't know work rate
01:10:36
for example and the question would be something far outside that and like okay how do we draw this back to way that we
01:10:41
want to think about it yeah it was felt like it was like um say as much as you can but also say as little as you can at
01:10:48
the same exactly whereas this day and age it's more be yourself say what you
01:10:53
want don't be a dick mm like don't do anything that's going to put the the
01:10:57
team in a bad light but at the same time just just be a person because that's
01:11:02
what everyone knows just people yeah and I feel like your your captain um and actually a teammate for many years Ari
01:11:08
svia he's he's really good um yeah their honesty and vulnerability piece as well
01:11:13
yeah big time there's been a couple of players him and him and TJ probably are
01:11:16
the two that that come to mind just around just being unapologetically themselves um in in any scenario what
01:11:24
you see on the media is what how they are um off off Media as well so but and what about for you biggest
01:11:34
lessons through these um like tragedies that you've been through um the importance of
01:11:43
talking but I suppose the the step before that is just sort of the understanding that it's okay to feel
01:11:49
however you feel and that understand that it's okay to feel [ __ ] and be in a
01:11:53
bad place and um that as long as you trust the people you love and you talk to them about it they they they're going
01:12:01
to be there to support you and lean on and help you through it um as much as you need them so I think those are
01:12:08
probably the two big ones it's hard though because you don't want to burden people eh like yeah yeah
01:12:14
there's that aspect as well but see that I always the that that the fear of that
01:12:18
is always minimized once you say it out loud and they're like well I don't care
01:12:22
like this is all good um and then it's probably just a cycle because if it's
01:12:27
too much for them they'll say that back and we got to go find someone together
01:12:30
to to do it so yeah yeah um yeah what about your inner voice what's that like
01:12:37
when you when you're in the car or on your air airplane flight going somewhere
01:12:41
you're just alone with your own thoughts what's that like you quite kind to
01:12:45
yourself what um on and off I'm trying to be kinder uh what a confronting question far out
01:12:54
sorry you've got some confronting once hey yeah no just it's probably not
01:12:57
something you bring it back to the game plan I probably need to yeah work harder David NE who you've had on here
01:13:07
he yeah Big Dave he is our mental skills coach at the moment he says 60 to 80,000
01:13:12
thoughts we have a day and the majority of them are negative um I suppose I'm on
01:13:17
the journey that he talks about and sort of being aware of that and when those thoughts are having are happening
01:13:23
flipping it and turning it into a positive or when you have one negative thought turning it into three positive
01:13:29
thoughts um and sort of mantras um so yeah without having actual thought about that
01:13:39
that's hard that's pretty hard to answer I'd say for the majority of the time
01:13:42
it's pretty negative um but also aware of that and trying to be more positive
01:13:48
with it it's hard I'm I'm uh yeah I'm much the same a lot of high performance
01:13:55
performers I've had on the podcast are exactly the same like they they're
01:13:57
actual bullies to themselves you know part of it you think well maybe it gives you that edge um where you you
01:14:05
continuously striving for better but then it's just it's not healthy like you
01:14:09
can go on the internet there's plenty of people that will talk [ __ ] about you you
01:14:12
don't need to do it yourself I think it's probably necessary as a professional athlete to be hard on
01:14:16
yourself because you're not going to accept what's not good enough yeah but
01:14:20
then there's the there's the I don't know the line where you say I've made a
01:14:25
mistake here that wasn't good enough to I made a mistake here that means you're
01:14:29
a [ __ ] [Music] hunt just I'm not cutting that out it's a great combination of words by
01:14:38
the way that was it's not used often enough yeah no it's not well it is in
01:14:42
our environment probably no but s of sort of that line that's the unnecessary
01:14:47
line where when you're talking bad on your character because of because of a
01:14:52
negative action you know that's probably unnecessary yeah what about your best
01:14:55
and worst habits what do you think they would be um you just grinned there at that one
01:15:02
your instant reaction no just just the journey I'm on and my my and my Rehabilitation at the moment my family
01:15:08
would be able to answer my bad habits um I saw you having a vape in the car before yeah now i' yeah well I'm sober
01:15:15
trying to be Sober Sober at the moment so the Vapes are The Vape helps what checky Vape never hurt um yeah you're
01:15:21
from a um yeah like a fine team of smokers from in the day wasn't like M and Jerry when they well I never got to
01:15:28
play with them but I've seen plenty of photos of JC with a with a in his mouth
01:15:32
and arm wrestling people in the pub I I think he was an outlier in the sense that he could do that and then play the
01:15:37
next day and smash people I think even this might be before your dad's area Grant Fox the famous number 10 I believe
01:15:43
he was a Dary smoker yeah similar I think the same area I think I think Grant Fox took my dad's spot on the All
01:15:48
Blacks actually but um he had so many stories of the halftime cigarettes back then which is vaping sort of becoming
01:15:56
that thing it's weird like if you saw a cigarette in a around the team environment now you'd be like what the
01:16:01
hell's going on but there's Vapes LIF and right yeah what's your go to flavor
01:16:04
is that a sweet one I'm only a new at the moment I'm rocking pineapple coconut
01:16:09
but I'm I'm only I'm only a recent Vapor you can see what's dangerous for kids eh
01:16:14
like pineapple coconut that sounds delicious yeah I'm nervous for my youngest brother and sister they're 10
01:16:18
and 12 at the moment and yeah got to keep an eye on that I think oh yeah cuz you got a blended family he so so how
01:16:25
many how many siblings all up so there's you Conor and Georgia three and and then
01:16:30
your dad has my dad met his partner Bell recently separated but that she has three kids Mia Toby and Tilly and then
01:16:38
they had two kids together B and Eva so there's eight of us do you do you feel
01:16:42
like a a brother or an uncle oh brother yeah do you yeah definitely brother yeah
01:16:46
yeah it's such a big age Gap yeah it is a big age Gap but yeah I'm not sure why
01:16:51
that probably could happen in some instances but yeah that's little bro that's so cool yeah I love the family
01:16:57
Dynamic um oh yeah yes best and worst habits what yeah um I won't say my worst
01:17:04
habits I don't even know what my best habits would be definitely the place where I'm most
01:17:10
consistent as my Rugby that's that's probably the the the one area where I'm confident and accurate and so
01:17:19
just my habits around planning my week and making sure that I took off all the boxes make sure I play well yeah and and
01:17:26
to be um at the level that you've been at for as long as what you have that requires a certain amount of
01:17:32
discipline yeah I think so especially around your body it's a number one tool
01:17:38
um and I haven't been I've never been the most shredded or anything but I've
01:17:43
always been able to stay on the park for for for long stunts and and touch wood um Miss I've only had a couple of major
01:17:51
injuries but yeah I think I've learned especially as I've got older the the
01:17:56
more you can look after your body and the more you're available to play the more the more valuable you are and the
01:18:01
longer that you'll be able to do it what's the wh if that keeps you up at
01:18:06
night oh the what if it hasn't been a w if keeping me up at night that conversation that I that
01:18:12
phone call that Georgia gave me those the words of saying that that kep me up at night for and still does every now
01:18:18
and then if if that gets ringing in my ear I definitely need to put on some Netflix or or a podcast or something to
01:18:24
make sure I'm I'm not thinking about that um not sure about a what if yeah how is how is your an example of
01:18:33
what if I don't know it can be anything it's all oh this isn't my podcast flip it
01:18:40
that give me time to think I want to yeah yeah actually I should um yeah I I don't know I like to Spring these on on
01:18:47
people but I maybe I should give them to people in advance they got time to think
01:18:50
about it yeah um but it's nice to get People's Natural reaction nice definitely better it's just hard to
01:18:56
think of on the spot yeah how yeah how is your sister that's um [ __ ] that's
01:19:00
that's a phone call that no one deserves to make hey oh 100% 100% I haven't
01:19:05
actually right no probably not probably not we we catch up and yeah her Life's
01:19:10
good she's engaged over in London um she owns a house over there but I know she
01:19:15
wishes she was closer to home um yeah she'll be feeling really homesick over
01:19:20
there I wish she was closer to home too um she's getting married next January
01:19:24
which is exciting um but yeah like all of our siblings man it's just we're all pretty
01:19:33
[ __ ] as underlying like all all answers that we give to anything you can just assume there's a level of just
01:19:40
[ __ ] but there's some there's something really endearing and likable about
01:19:44
admitting that because I feel like everyone it's pretty relatable everyone's got something no but every
01:19:49
everyone also wears wears a mask like everyone has like a Persona that they want the world to see and it's like um
01:19:55
the thing I like about the podcast is um it's kind of like the greatest hits and
01:19:59
greatest shits of someone's life really you know cuz life is not all A Greatest
01:20:02
Hits record is it you know yeah everyone has some adversity and um a lot of people don't want to share that stuff
01:20:08
cuz it's like it's it's [ __ ] it's crunchy it's embarrassing at
01:20:12
times it is but I don't think we're embarrassed by it now it's like I said
01:20:17
my step siblings they lost their dad when they were young we lost our mom now we've lost our brother it's like it's
01:20:22
not laughable but it is it's like [ __ ] man what else have you got like what is
01:20:27
life and then oh that doesn't even include like people around us friends and and extended family that are passed
01:20:32
away too like we been through a fair bit and now it's just like all right everyone admit that that we're [ __ ] and
01:20:39
that's all right but let's work together to make sure that on top of that we
01:20:43
still are happy in what we're doing and living fulfilling lives it's all you can do eh just try
01:20:49
and be a bit better every day yeah we can try to um when was the last time you cried
01:20:55
last time I cried uh within the last week I think yeah about your Bri yeah uh I'm trying to than Sonia O'Neal the PDM
01:21:06
for the Highlanders she messaged me just asking permission from the family to sort of Honor Connor in their first home
01:21:14
game um for the Highlanders um and she sort of just gave a little rundown of what they might do um and she's like let
01:21:21
us know if you have any thoughts around I was like you can definitely do it the one thing I think if there's going to be
01:21:25
a minutes of a moment of silence could you please change that to a moment of be as loud as you can um because that was
01:21:31
Connor he just wanted noise and wanted the zoo to be going nut so i s i I sent her that and I sort of put it down and I
01:21:37
sort of started imagining that happening and how cool that would be yeah and then
01:21:43
it's SC happening now which is it's just such a cool thought such a [ __ ] thought
01:21:47
to have to have but imagining that moment is is pretty powerful that's going to be Goosebumps
01:21:55
yeah I hope they do that they haven't confirmed or all but also with the denan
01:22:00
crowd I think that's easier than a minute silence 100% get that be to be quiet for a minute [ __ ] that would be
01:22:07
cool would you be there for it would you be able to be there for it uh I'd have
01:22:11
to look at the schedule I think when I looked at it I wouldn't be able to but I
01:22:14
know my brother Toby will definitely fly down for it um would you would you like
01:22:18
would you want to be there for it or would it be too hard oh no I'd I'd love
01:22:21
to be there for that that's cool and that sort of big event in in honor of him isn't going to happen forever like
01:22:27
that's obviously it's very fresh and that's the first time so it's like as
01:22:31
much as possible have those cool [Music] memories is there a mistake that you wish you could go back and correct oh
01:22:40
plenty plenty how long n you got a game this weekend soorry n there is a lot there's a lot um I I
01:22:53
won't get into it but I've put a lot of pressure on my on my wife over the years
01:22:57
through through the way that I through the way that I've acted in many different facets of life um that I wish
01:23:02
I could take back just cuz there's a lot of stuff I've also done that's hared
01:23:06
harmed myself uh not physically but um you know knowing that I've hurt the person that I love the most you know
01:23:13
it's it's pretty [ __ ] harming yourself like in in terms of like drugs and
01:23:17
alcohol yeah drugs alcohol bad decisions with people and money and all sorts but
01:23:25
I tell masking masking your feelings with um like drugs and alcohol over the years and no one would begrudge you that
01:23:32
I don't think 100% And it's not hasn't been so recently that I've been
01:23:37
completely open and honest with my family about it as well and it was like a weight lifted off my chest when I did
01:23:44
open up to them about everything that was going on CU they were like well we knew something was going on you're an
01:23:48
idiot for not telling us early and and I agree with them um but yeah it's just yeah when you're in a certain frame
01:23:57
of mind you're in a certain frame of mind and your brain uh talks you into things
01:24:03
and justifies a lot of things that don't even make [Music] sense yeah like in terms of in terms of
01:24:10
like you're pushing pushing Rosie away or acting in a way that could put that
01:24:14
relationship at harm like do you is it like a self- sabotage thing or I'm not
01:24:19
sure I I hope I can get into that more with my psychiatrist um because it it has been like intermittent throughout
01:24:28
our whole relationship um yeah and something I haven't been able to do like consistently at all through the last six
01:24:36
years so I'm still trying to get a handle on that and uh and more of an understanding
01:24:41
on that so that I can have the tools to be consistent you know I I think um the only rugby player I've had on
01:24:50
that's been as honest as what you've been today is probably Zack Gilford um
01:24:54
but and there you go no but his his like his dirty laundry was well and truly public like had' been dragged through
01:25:01
the papers dragged through the court system you're you're surrendering this
01:25:05
information and like it's it's it's not out there like you don't have to um and
01:25:10
I think there's a like a there's a huge amount of courage in that yeah it's also
01:25:14
not I'm not hiding it it's just if I don't have to talk about it to people
01:25:18
why why would I but have my close friends ask me I'll tell them um it's it's also all very fresh sort of the
01:25:26
openness um sort of this side of New Years uh so yeah it's a journey beginning um what are you most afraid of
01:25:36
oh losing another family member yeah yeah that's a like the call that Georgia had to make
01:25:46
was I had a pretty confronting thought to know that there's seven of us left
01:25:50
and one of us is going to have to be there for all of our funerals at some point was just not something that you
01:25:55
want to think about as reality [Music] and I hope it's me but I'm the oldest so
01:26:01
I also hope it's not but yeah yeah I mean well death is a reality we're all going to have to face but um
01:26:10
yeah yeah hope the next one would be you know would be your dad like it's this
01:26:14
the correct order of things you know it's yeah I can't way way down the line it's
01:26:21
yeah because we're yeah it's funny like even though I was young and it was I
01:26:26
lost my mom there's a level of Peace when it's an illness or old age that you can they
01:26:32
actually they're in a better place now with what people say and there's some
01:26:36
level of Truth to that I think but with Connor he's 25 and healthy and looking
01:26:41
forward to being a dad for the rest of his life and you know excited about what was coming up and then just gone it's
01:26:50
it's cruel it's unfair his life was just beginning exactly yeah um what about
01:26:54
future goals like where do you see yourself at you know 35 40 50 um pay for mortgage and have four or five healthy
01:27:05
kids married happily married yeah is four to five the magic number now what's
01:27:10
sort of car do you need for that Ford territory my wife told me I wanted a Toyota a
01:27:16
steamer a people mover yeah that's so we we family waging that's that's what we
01:27:21
had yeah um but now my my goal for the short term I I haven't thought about too
01:27:27
much the important part after France was just to get home um regardless of what was happening with rugby we're going to
01:27:33
be in aiming to stay in country um and Wellington and Moana have given me the opportunity to do that while still
01:27:39
playing the game I love so that is a goal achieved um I hope I can extend with both of them so that that's um set
01:27:48
in stone for the next couple of years um but in terms of physical goals not much
01:27:53
I just want to get to a place of inner peace and happiness and calm really I feel like you're on the right
01:28:04
track I hope so and it's going to be up and down but yeah yeah and with your
01:28:10
brother it's still very fresh yeah yeah six months or seven months whatever yeah
01:28:15
how's your um yeah your sister's wedding how's like how's that going to be oh that' be
01:28:22
extremely hard Mia uh uh um the next oldest in the line she got married in thailander recently just in November um
01:28:30
so we're all over there for that and that was awesome that [ __ ] um and that's
01:28:36
going to be every event that's going to be every event because we loved them yeah which with great love comes
01:28:45
yeah great loss um are there three words that you know your wife or family would use to
01:28:53
describe you interesting [Laughter] ertic um loyal yeah that's a good one um
01:29:05
and loving yeah it's quite funny like yeah I've only met you today but the um the the
01:29:13
guy I see in front of me like it's he's way more together than the person that
01:29:17
you describe yourself as well yeah well yeah that's who I'm trying to be and
01:29:21
trying to be consistently um and and literally the person that I am now if someone met who knew me when I
01:29:28
was 20 met me today they wouldn't they wouldn't recognize me because there's
01:29:31
there's been a lot of change through love life and loss um and still on a journey to to be the best version of me
01:29:40
but comfortable in the in the direction I'm going well I'm 52 and I feel like
01:29:46
I'm I'm still on the same journey and I feel like you you can never reach that
01:29:49
Apex yeah no well there would never be an apex I don't think cuz there's always
01:29:53
going to be like life that gets thrown at you that throws you off course potentially but and every every day is
01:29:59
an opportunity to to do better and be better as well yeah yeah that's it well
01:30:04
um are you proud of yourself I am yeah I know there's a lot of work to be done
01:30:09
but you know I've I've achieved a lot in my career I've achieved a lot in my life
01:30:15
as a as with my kids and my wife um you know I've I've I've been a puller
01:30:22
for my family and some and some really hard times um I've got great relationship with all
01:30:27
my siblings uh whenever I meet up with my extended family great relationship there
01:30:33
and I'm extremely proud of that cuz that's all that really matters at the
01:30:37
end of the day oh you're a good bastard um yes so Super Rugby Moana Pacifica this year I
01:30:44
looked at the um the odds online before you came in today you guys paying $101 to win good time to jump
01:30:51
on not the not the house yeah um yeah just like a cheeky tenner yeah why not yeah yeah yeah how how you I
01:30:59
mean it looks like it's a good team on paper right yeah no it's definitely the
01:31:03
strongest Squad I think that that Moana has put together since they since they were created four years ago um and
01:31:10
obviously I can't judge because this has just been my first year but based on
01:31:14
what some of the the the veterans of the team have said is they say we're Head
01:31:18
and Shoulders ahead of where they were at this time of the year and previous years so yeah there's a lot lot of um
01:31:23
posi positive optimism around the group um and that's just the rugby side of
01:31:28
things the the cultural side and the off field stuff is is awesome it's such a
01:31:32
fun team to be a part of full of awesome dudes yeah is that yeah well I think just the the Polynesian culture in
01:31:38
general is just so welcoming and warm and fun um full of hyena laughs and mocking people and lots of CH so that
01:31:46
that that was never going to be an issue's never going to be an issue that's that's a given that's DNA yeah
01:31:51
I've I've heard you um in interviews before refer to yourself as a plastic
01:31:56
yeah yeah do you still feel like a plastic oh yeah very much so but uh also an open plastic I'm not I'm not trying
01:32:05
to stare away from it you know this is an awesome opportunity for me to get in touch with a side of my culture that I
01:32:11
never was that I never have been yeah how would you define plastic oh I don't even know I think you
01:32:18
said you're a plastic but your dad's even more of a plastic or something
01:32:21
there was the qu something no I'm not sure they always just called himself a he could cuz he played for some more
01:32:27
but couldn't speak the language obviously a l of L of skin tone uh that hav haven't ever lived the cultural way
01:32:36
that that s and tongin and and all poan people do so yeah I would I've never
01:32:42
been asked to Define that I think everyone just knows what it is um yeah I'd K me on the podcast and I
01:32:49
get the feeling he he's got like a almost a sense of guilt and a bit of Shame for not knowing how to speak the
01:32:53
language yeah it's like he was he was like born and raised in tood like you know I was
01:32:58
like you got to give yourself a free pass on that yeah that's something that
01:33:01
TJ P always spoke with his to moldy he was always like ashamed almost that he couldn't speak the language and that
01:33:08
stopped him from from learning until he brushed that to the side and just just went for it and it's all right if you
01:33:13
didn't grow up in it you didn't grow up in it but it's never too too late to
01:33:17
embrace it yeah um what would your mom make of the the man sitting in front of me today I I think she'd be overall
01:33:24
pretty happy she'd be a she'd be a happy Nanny Sue yeah she'd be super proud of
01:33:29
of of my kids and she'd love Rosie um yeah yeah and your your daughter's got
01:33:39
her her name is her middle name yeah yeah Mary Sue yeah I was lucky she was a girl cuz she was going to be called Mary
01:33:46
after Bob Mary regardless of she whether she was a boy or a girl but we had different middle names so when I caught
01:33:52
Mary I thought she was a girl could go up and tell Ros it's Mal Sue to let her
01:33:56
know as a girl that's cool um yeah youve you've come close to getting emotional a
01:34:02
couple of times here um are things like this exhausting uh like like tonight or probably car on the
01:34:10
drive home you feel drained yeah probably yeah right now probably a bit of adrenaline from being in the
01:34:16
situation that I'm in and iste but um yeah I have some I won't put the radio on all the way I'm just just sort
01:34:24
with my thoughts and get ready to do some work when I get home probably B time yeah yeah yeah game face on eh the
01:34:32
fun begins um all right with Jackson Garden bash it's been really good to meet you today I'm so oh I me to ask you
01:34:38
what's the um what's the Milo tattoo last question oh so my son's name is
01:34:41
Milo right that's a picture of my dad when he was playing wow that's I just got my tattoo
01:34:48
out us to stitch those together awesome oh I love it yeah I I get so the same no just because it's the
01:34:56
same logo as the the drink yeah yeah well the Milo is not named after anything but that's the only thing that
01:35:01
I can think of a reference and that was a cool way to do it but the amount of people that on a night out or something
01:35:06
was go man I love your tattooo like I love the drink as well yeah oh that's awesome all right
01:35:13
Jackson Garden bash thanks so much best of luck this year for Moana Pacifica and
01:35:18
um I mean that's just sport beyond that just um your best of luck for whatever
01:35:22
the future brings and Hope for you and your fan out it's just nothing but good
01:35:25
stuff thank you n thanks for me