00:00:00
I could kill you and no one would ever find out. What have I done? >> And we haven't even talked about the Ws
00:00:04
yet here yet. >> I've got a McDonald's bag and I'm new. >> Jason Paris, who is he? Kid from
00:00:08
Southland. I found out I had five half brothers. He had six boys, three different women. That's a lot to take
00:00:14
in. >> He left straight away and didn't come back. >> You got no anger about that? He's not my
00:00:19
dad. Do you forgive him? Are you familiar with imposter syndrome? I've got the imposter syndrome as a dad. I'm
00:00:23
waiting for someone to tap me on the shoulder and go, "How the hell did you
00:00:25
get here?" in Paris. Welcome to my podcast. >> Thanks very much for having me, Dom.
00:00:32
>> Hey. And um congratulations. Today, uh the day that we're recording this is
00:00:35
your sixth anniversary at 1 NZ. >> It is. Yeah. So, it's gone super fast.
00:00:40
Uh more gray hair. Uh a little a little bit more experienced. >> I feel like you you've been rocking the
00:00:48
silver fox look since your 30s, have you? >> Yeah, it's been it has been a while. And
00:00:53
uh the beauty of going gray early is people say you haven't aged. So, uh yeah. So, I've uh I've rocked the silver
00:00:59
fox look for for a while. >> Oh, well, you do. I think you look um and I'm not just pissing in your pocket
00:01:03
here to get on the right side of you early in the podcast, but um you turned 50 last week. I I think you look you're
00:01:08
looking great. Maybe it's the dimples that give you that >> Oh, thank you.
00:01:10
>> youthful look. Is this the longest job you've had in your corporate
00:01:14
>> uh career? >> Uh no, the one before this it was 7 years, but I've been in the telco
00:01:19
industry now for kind of what that means 15. So, >> longest industry uh I've uh I've been
00:01:25
in. >> Where was the previous one? Was that Spark? Yeah. >> Yeah. So I took a took a job actually
00:01:30
not with Vodafone New Zealand but to move across to London with my family >> and then at the last minute it changed
00:01:35
and I got told I was CEO of New Zealand for Vodafone way back then. And so um our plans quickly reversed and uh and we
00:01:43
stayed in Aliadawa which has been you know given what happened the last few years and co etc was a blessing in the
00:01:50
in the scheme of things. >> Yeah. So um yeah let's run through your your career. Yeah. So, it's 1 NZ for the
00:01:55
last six years, Spark before that. Um, let's go backwards. >> Uh, so I had a brief stint at Media
00:02:01
Works in TV. Um, and then before that was TVN zed. And then, uh, before that was Nokia. Uh, and then before that was
00:02:11
McDonald's uh, back in New Zealand. So, I had just four years uh, in London uh,
00:02:17
working with Nokia. Um, and the rest of those jobs were uh, were were in were in
00:02:22
New Zealand. And so mainly kind of tech industry stuff is uh what I've been what
00:02:28
I've been in. Um and I'd include media in that as well because when I kind of
00:02:32
came into the media industry in 2007 um you know technology was starting to play a bigger part in uh in that
00:02:38
industry too. >> Jeez, it's not a bad CV is it from for a kid from Southland with um out of
00:02:43
tertiary education. >> Yeah. You've done all right. I've been pretty lucky and the the cool thing
00:02:48
about it is uh I have haven't had to apply for too many of those those roles
00:02:54
proactively. I've been shoulder tapped for whatever reason. Uh I think that's
00:02:58
one of the beauties of the New Zealand marketplace is that you know it's a bit
00:03:01
of a village and so um the relationships that you have often, you know, create create doors. In fact, my very first job
00:03:08
um was on the way back from a rugby trip to the west coast and the rugby manager
00:03:14
of the Southland team was the rugby manager of Trust Bank Southland and he said, "What are you thinking about
00:03:18
doing? You want to come and work for me?" And so um that was my uh my pivot
00:03:24
into uh into working into working life. Although I also got uh declined for teachers training college just before
00:03:30
that too. So it was kind of a a forced a forced move because the teaching industry didn't want me way back in '92.
00:03:36
>> Jeez. what they do for some male teachers now. Also, I saw the car when
00:03:40
you pulled up today in Pod Lab. Not many school teachers driving cars like that.
00:03:43
>> Yeah, I'm pretty lucky. That's uh Yeah, it's a it's a nice car. Saved up for two
00:03:47
or three years for that one. And um yeah, it's uh kind of uh my little treat.
00:03:52
>> Oh, good on you. Good on you. What would you say your >> It's not a Maserati or a twodoor sports
00:03:56
car, though. It's a It's a good SUV, though. >> It is. It's a It's a sensible car for a
00:04:01
for a man of your vintage. >> Okay, that's very nice. Um what would you say your top five um like career
00:04:06
greatest hits are? Like surely the the transition from Vodafone to 1 and z the rebrand is one of them.
00:04:11
>> Yeah. Vodafone to uh 1 Z. Um Telecom to Spark. Um >> Oh, you were part of that?
00:04:17
>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh >> so this ain't your first radio? >> No. No. Um uh coming up with and and
00:04:24
launching TVNZ on demand. Uh so that was a big a big kind of industry move. I'd
00:04:28
say a pretty important asset for TV and Zed. Uh back then, um I didn't have anything to do with
00:04:36
this, but when we were when I was at Media Works, uh the way that the team handled the Christ Church Canterbury
00:04:42
earthquakes earthquakes and then the Japanese tsunami afterwards, um I was just delivering pizzas to the newsroom.
00:04:48
It was really Mark Jennings that was leading it. But I was really proud of the culture that we built uh around
00:04:53
around that time and the kind of do a lot with a little uh mentality. And then uh probably some of the product
00:05:01
innovation that we did at McDonald's way back in the day. I remember coming up
00:05:04
with the chicken Mcheese uh when I was in my uh Yes. Yes. Yes. And um uh so yeah, there's a there's a there's a few
00:05:12
there's a few things from a professional perspective that I'm proud of and
00:05:15
hopefully uh there's more to come. >> What what about um career uh greatest
00:05:20
[ __ ] >> Uh the McDonald's placemats. >> Yeah. So that was a shocker uh putting
00:05:26
>> What's the story there? So, uh, the advertising agency put a bunch of, um,
00:05:32
faces in front of me and pictures and we were the sponsor of, um, the Small Whites, uh, um, which is the New Zealand
00:05:41
football kind of, uh, campaign. And I I I thought that they were all signed off and uh, and they had the rights to them.
00:05:50
And of course, I chose the one with the Maui Queen's grandson on it, which is
00:05:56
very bad to be eating food off anyone from Maldi. 1.2 million tray mat place mats went out and that
00:06:05
had to be uh had to be reprinted. So, wasn't uh wasn't a stellar moment in my
00:06:12
uh in my in my career. So, I remember that one. Luckily, my boss was uh pretty supportive. Did you Did you have to make
00:06:17
a phone call to him to let him That must have been a fun fun conversation. >> 1.2 million train maps have to be have
00:06:23
to be recalled. So yeah, that wasn't a that wasn't that wasn't great. Um low
00:06:28
lightss or any uh any structural change when you're having hard conversations
00:06:32
about job losses. That that's the worst that keeps you um keeps you up at night.
00:06:36
>> Um yeah, those would be the things that that are the most kind of draining. And
00:06:41
then you have to remember that you're making the decision and having the conversation, but it's much worse for
00:06:46
the person that you're having the conversation with, too. >> Actually, I'm I'm not surprised you said
00:06:49
that cuz from um from my research and from what I know about your management style, um yeah, you like you're a real
00:06:55
open door kind of guy. Um so yeah, something like um McDonald's place, m it's it's a bit of money lost. It's a
00:07:03
stupid mistake, but um yeah, I'm not surprised that you said that about the people.
00:07:06
>> Yeah, it's the worst. And uh you know, unfortunately with me, what you see is
00:07:11
what you get. I'm the same person at home as I am at uh as I am at work. And
00:07:15
uh anything that impacts people or if I feel like I've let them down in any way,
00:07:19
whether it's family or friends and at work and and sometimes you get those things wrong and those are the things
00:07:24
that you beat yourself up about the most. >> Yeah. Hey, we'll um dig deep into your
00:07:29
into your management style and your theories and things. Um but first of all, let's go all the way back. So um
00:07:34
Jason Paris, who is he? Kid from Southland. >> Yeah. proud Southlander. Uh born in
00:07:38
Invagle. Uh solo mom. She was young uh 16 and then uh my father uh he left straight away and didn't didn't come
00:07:49
back. So I've he was never a part of my life until um he actually died and we
00:07:54
went to his funeral in in uh in Christ Church. Had no had no connection with him. My mom's an incredible woman. Very
00:08:00
strong. Uh a really privileged to have a young grandmother now. In fact, she was
00:08:04
just up in the weekend playing shooting hoops with uh her grand her grandchildren. So that's cool. But at
00:08:10
the time um solo mom 16 uh domestic purposes benefit uh kind of life being her teenage years being taken away from
00:08:20
her by having a young young child. You know what a massive sacrifice. >> Were you were you an only child?
00:08:25
>> Yeah. So mom uh didn't you know my father left straight away. didn't come
00:08:29
back. And then for whatever reason um mom didn't have a relationship that uh
00:08:36
stuck to a point where she would have another uh another child. And so it ended up being basically me and her and
00:08:44
then uh my grandparents. So her mom and dad uh who um who kind of you know brought me up. So freezing worker stock
00:08:54
uh right through my family. So my grandparents freezing workers, my uncle, my mom ended up after I got to the
00:09:00
school age where she could go and uh be at the freezing works. In fact, she just
00:09:04
retired last year from uh from Alliance Freezing Works where she was a meat inspector for a number of years.
00:09:09
>> Yeah. So if you're if you've just turned 50, she must be 66. Yeah. What are your
00:09:14
um Yeah. What are your recollection of those years? Cuz you know, you and I are similar age. And um yeah, I remember
00:09:19
when my my mom and dad broke up. I was I was from Palmer. Mom and dad broke up when I was about 10. And um there was
00:09:24
only one other kid in my class, Craig, who had like like a was from a broken home. It was such a rare thing. Um yeah.
00:09:31
Was it like embarrassing? Did you did you feel like you you know you didn't fit in or you felt different?
00:09:37
>> No, not at all actually. Uh and uh I think there were a few broken homes.
00:09:45
Um or actually I noticed some kids that were in homes that weren't broken that I
00:09:48
wouldn't have want to been a part of either. you know, some some pretty tough
00:09:52
situations that kids find themselves in. Um, well, I found themselves in back then and still find themselves in today.
00:09:58
So, to be honest, although we didn't have a lot, I didn't realize it at all,
00:10:02
you know. Um, we moved it moved a bit again, you know, social welfare, housing, all that type of type of thing.
00:10:08
But, uh, I never feel like I never remember feeling that I was missing out on anything. And actually also most
00:10:17
importantly that I couldn't do anything that I put my mind to either. If you my
00:10:21
mom's kind of drummed into me if you work hard you give it your best then you
00:10:24
can achieve achieve anything. And so >> it's only kind of now uh when I have you
00:10:32
know privilege to have a nice car. They didn't realize we didn't have a nice
00:10:35
car. But, um, it it it, you know, food on the table, bed, loving environment, uh, a mom that
00:10:45
believed and supported in me. Um, and and actually I was I was lucky. I had a lot of positive positive role models. My
00:10:51
grandparents, as I mentioned, my uncle, but also school teachers, um, sports coaches. So, it was a tough tough
00:10:58
environment in Invar and Southland, but um I was surrounded by a bunch of great people.
00:11:03
>> And did you have like a chip on your shoulder about your dad or anything? How
00:11:07
did how did your mom sort of address that? >> No, not at all. Uh the probably the biggest chip on my
00:11:13
shoulder was when we I had children myself and uh I realized that there are little moments that
00:11:20
>> you know uh and this is a kind of a generalization that >> maybe your dad teaches you to back a
00:11:26
back a trailer and that's not you know something that you would say now nowadays or put a um a hook on a on a um
00:11:33
uh on a fishing fishing line. I hadn't been taught any of those traditional dad
00:11:38
uh dad things. So, I'm having to YouTube them and teach and teach myself because
00:11:43
I want to pass them on to my kids, both my boys and and my daughter to back a trailer and to and to fish um etc. When
00:11:50
I went met my um my wife uh Ra, she wondered why I hadn't um sought out to reconnect with my father. Uh and I'd
00:12:03
never really contemplated it. Um, and probably the reason was I didn't feel like I'd missed anything. Uh and
00:12:13
so it wasn't really until um I started having we had our children where I was
00:12:19
like hm maybe I did miss some miss miss something but it didn't wasn't enough to
00:12:25
drive with me to reconnect then uh then either uh my grandparents lived in the same house for what would have been 20
00:12:35
to 25 years after I was born and so he had plenty of time to And if ever was a small place, even though he moved to uh
00:12:42
to Christ Church, if he wanted to find me, he could have. So, probably the only probably sadness is, you know, if if um
00:12:49
you're a dad with a with a kid, uh it's probably when you're 17, you can make an
00:12:54
excuse that you might be a little bit immature and >> and not be prepared to stick around, but
00:12:59
you'd hope when you're 37 or or 47 that you might have some reflection and go,
00:13:04
actually, you might want to reconnect with uh with your child. Um Unfortunately, he didn't he didn't want
00:13:10
to. >> Yeah. You You got no anger about that? >> No. Because >> he's sort of indifferent to it.
00:13:16
>> Yeah. And I um he I you know, I referred to him as my father. He's not my not my
00:13:21
dad. Um >> your dad's a t I've got firm views on this having um you been involved in a
00:13:27
family adoption and stuff. Like a dad's a title that's got to be earned.
00:13:30
>> Yeah. Correct. And so that's just not how um >> how I how I see him. Um you know, unfort
00:13:36
unfortunately he passed away. uh mom found out about it. We went to his funeral to pay our respects, but also uh
00:13:43
find out about health history. Right. He died uh quite young. And so we want to know if there's anything that I need to
00:13:49
watch out for or our kids needed to watch out for. >> That was a kind of a nice moment though
00:13:53
because there um uh by all accounts, and this is a whole the the story of his funeral is a u a podcast in itself, but
00:14:01
I found out I had five half brothers. I didn't know uh that existed. And we all
00:14:07
found out about each other at the funeral. And so >> young younger than you, I'm assuming.
00:14:14
>> I'm the eldest. So I went to the funeral. His this funeral was opened by
00:14:19
someone who said, "I'm Robert's eldest son." >> And [ __ ]
00:14:25
>> But my wife did say that. She'd heard about two two big bottles of spades by
00:14:28
that point. She was like, "He's not the eldest son." And I'm like, "Shut up.
00:14:33
We're only here to pay our respects. We don't want a KFC. Uh but over time uh
00:14:38
over that funeral um a scene was created because people started to find out because um my uncle so my father's
00:14:46
brother turned up and uh and he was from Chicago and uh and he mentioned to someone and then everyone at the funeral
00:14:53
started to find out about uh me and then all of us found out about another set another two boys. So there was
00:15:01
>> I like three sort of three family groups. Yeah. Yeah. So he had uh six boys to three different women.
00:15:11
>> So Oh my god. Oh my god. That's a That's a lot to take in. >> Yeah.
00:15:17
>> How many years ago was this? The funeral. >> Uh about what it been I'd say five five
00:15:23
years ago. Five years ago now. And um it's also when I found out about my connection to Nahu which I didn't know
00:15:28
existed at that time. and it set me on a journey to mainly for my kids to just see if the connection with that side of
00:15:36
the family was something that would be meaningful um for them. So, um we've just started taking some gentle baby
00:15:42
steps along along that journey. But yeah, man, that was a pretty mind-blowing experience where you find
00:15:48
out well each you all find out you got five half brothers that you didn't know
00:15:52
exist all at the same time at a funeral. So, >> it's it's a lot to unpack.
00:15:56
>> It is a lot to unpack. It's a lot. Yeah, you need a lot of space to to Well, and
00:16:01
have you got a relationship now with um your half brothers? >> Uh no, not really. No, like uh social
00:16:07
media relationship. >> Mhm. >> You know, so uh lots of um happy birthdays,
00:16:13
congratulations, that kind of that kind of stuff. >> It's a lot of extra free phones to hand
00:16:17
out. >> It is. And like I said to I said to Ra, like I don't get to spend enough time
00:16:23
with my family and my closest mates that I've, >> you know, known since I was five years
00:16:28
old. Uh let alone a whole bunch of other people to um build a relationship. But,
00:16:33
you know, that might change when I have more time. They're really good people.
00:16:36
Uh I really enjoyed uh catching up uh catching up with them >> and um >> yeah, and who and who knows? But uh
00:16:45
yeah, all of us I think were taken by surprise and have just kind of socially stayed in contact and gone, how do we
00:16:51
even deal with that? >> Yeah. And and what do you know about your your father? Like was was he a good
00:16:56
dad to some of the other kids? >> Not really. >> No. So >> well that must be pleasing in a way.
00:17:00
>> Yeah. Yeah. Like I think uh I don't I think he was a father not a dad again
00:17:05
like that that that point. And don't want to speak too ill of the of the dead. Um there was a big funeral so
00:17:11
clearly he had a lot of friends. uh and uh and people who liked him. Yeah. Um he
00:17:19
was very social. Uh big drinker, big smoker and uh died of lung cancer. Um >> the interesting thing was people would
00:17:29
come up to were coming up to me at the funeral and would say uh you know, we're so sorry we didn't
00:17:34
acknowledge you. And I and I said, oh, it is what it is. He would say it is what it is. And then I'd say something
00:17:40
else and they'd go he would say that and then they'd tell you about and I said oh
00:17:44
I'm sports mad he was sports mad you know people and New Zealand is a sports mad and a
00:17:51
lot of people say it is what it is but people you know kind of grabbing or gravitating onto things that
00:17:56
>> uh were a connection uh and also you know I probably have they said I had
00:18:01
some mannerisms and some ways of talking or whatever that uh that reminded um them of of him. So, without a doubt,
00:18:11
like when you have a child, you are, you know, 50% 50%, you shake it up into a cocktail mix and that's what you get.
00:18:19
So, I'm going to I'm going to have a bit of uh a bit of connection with him. But
00:18:23
don't no regrets. No, like there's no I' never never been a point in my life at
00:18:28
all where I've uh regretted not um not reaching out earlier and uh and connecting with him.
00:18:36
M I think that speaks volumes about your mom and the job she did. So you never felt like there was um like a gap or a
00:18:43
hole there. And did you did you when when did you have an appreciation of just how how badass she was and what a
00:18:50
good job she did? She you know cuz your kids are 16 now, right? Same your kids are the same sort of age as what your
00:18:55
mom was when she had you. You're still a kid at that age. >> Yeah. >> Like did you did you have an
00:18:59
appreciation growing up that about your mom or when did that come? Suppose when you're growing up, you
00:19:06
don't really think about it, do you? >> Well, no. Also, you know, like you're a
00:19:08
teenager, you're a bit of a [ __ ] too. You don't think you're thinking about
00:19:10
yourself versus, you know, think about teenage years, you know. Um, luckily, our kids are a little bit different and
00:19:18
um and great and great kids. >> I I think it was really when we had our own children and realized how difficult
00:19:27
it is to bring up uh bring up a kid that I appreciate it. And then also now that
00:19:34
I'm, you know, of this of this age, putting kids aside, just the relationship that I've got with with mom
00:19:41
with mom now and thinking about um how difficult it must have been to be in her situation uh and the sacrifices that she
00:19:50
that she made. But it's I it's a it was I know use that word a lot. It's a privilege like I got
00:19:59
given leadership at a very early age like probably 3 years old to do stuff right jobs around the house or
00:20:04
responsibility and that was three four five six uh a lot of change in my life which means
00:20:11
>> I actually I love change I love industries and jobs and life that is free flowing doesn't that doesn't uh
00:20:18
doesn't stress me stress me out at all um and also I have a sense of I suppose
00:20:24
of positivity that Um, if you put your mind to something, you've got people, even just one person
00:20:31
in your life that believes in you and sees that you've got potential and tells
00:20:35
you you've got potential, the world is your oyster. So, from that background,
00:20:41
um, it's given me a hugely positive view on life and potential of anyone from
00:20:50
anywhere across across the country. Uh, and so, you know, um, it's another gift
00:20:55
that mom's given me. >> Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. And it's it's
00:21:00
awesome that she's still, um, young enough that, you know, you can tell her these things and she knows how
00:21:04
appreciated she is and what an awesome job she did. >> And she's got a toy boy and Barry who's
00:21:09
64 and, uh, Barry >> and Grandad Barry's uh, he's been around for 20 years, so the entire uh, entire
00:21:17
uh, childhood of our of our kids. And so, he is their grandfather. Um, and he's a great man. So, um, yeah, we're
00:21:22
lucky to have him in, uh, in our lives as as well. And maybe if they had met earlier, then there might have been
00:21:27
another another child, but they met later in life. And, um, and that's great. And, uh, you know, they are
00:21:32
they're partners in crime. >> Yeah. Do you know um, just one more question about your dad. Do you know if
00:21:36
he like follow followed your career from afar or anything like that? >> No, not at all. No. Uh,
00:21:42
>> see, cuz he he must have been Well, you lived in the same town, e, while you
00:21:45
were growing up. >> No. So, he he moved. So from what I understand is uh he moved from Invagle
00:21:52
to Christ Church pretty much straight away and didn't uh and didn't come back
00:21:55
and um and if he did come back to Invagle to see his parents or um his brothers and sisters didn't uh didn't
00:22:03
seek me out. Uh and so yeah, it was never like mom never ever uh described him in a
00:22:12
negative way. Like um I it was only when I was much older that I started asking mom a little bit about about him that
00:22:20
you know she told me a little bit about about what he's like and she's kept me
00:22:24
connected with his brothers and sisters. Um, so my uncles and aunties, but they were more like not proper uncles and
00:22:31
aunties, but kind of um friends, older friends of ms, etc. And they've told me
00:22:36
a few stories along the way as uh as well. Um, I knew he was a good athlete, good long-distance runner. Uh, but you
00:22:44
know, um, I'd give him a break when he was 17. I wouldn't have give I don't
00:22:48
give him a break when he was, you know, 47. >> Yeah. Yeah. Do you forgive him?
00:22:55
>> It's a good question. Well, I'm not sure I've got anything to
00:22:59
forgive him for because I don't feel like I've missed out on anything. Um,
00:23:08
yeah, I'd like to I'd like to think that he if he had his time again would regret
00:23:15
not being a dad >> to me, but >> I don't know. >> Yeah, >> I definitely would. But it's not like um
00:23:24
Yeah, it seems sad, like a waste of a life in a way because it seems like it's
00:23:27
not just a mistake he made with you. It's a mistake he made repeatedly with >> Yeah, I can't speak I can't speak for my
00:23:33
um half brothers. And the fact that they were all >> at his funeral and um uh and were there
00:23:40
and uh opened up >> uh I think he it's it's clearly he improved uh over over time. Uh so so
00:23:51
that's so that's great. But um yeah, he just he didn't play that role in in uh
00:23:57
in in my life. So yeah, like I bottom line is I do forgive him because there's
00:24:02
nothing to forgive. Um but there's some regret I think there. >> Yeah.
00:24:07
>> Well, thanks for sharing that. I I appreciate it. Is it hard to talk about
00:24:10
now or not really? >> Uh no, not really. I think you know that question you just asked then, do I
00:24:15
forgive him? it it kind of struck an emotional chord because it made me more reflective of
00:24:23
the life I've the relationship I've got with my own children and how much I
00:24:27
value value that. >> So it makes me sad that someone that uh >> you know was my father didn't value
00:24:38
that. >> That's the sad part I think. And um >> but I can't change that now. So yeah,
00:24:45
move on. Yeah, cuz you're um you're you're you're very very much a hands-on
00:24:50
dad. Um I I saw a LinkedIn post a couple of weeks ago um about you being invited
00:24:55
to some to some Starink launch in the States, but it clashes with what is it like your daughter's prize giving or
00:25:00
>> It was her year six graduation. >> Bro, do it do it by FaceTime. Go over to
00:25:05
the Starling thing. Like you've been a really good dad. You haven't missed
00:25:08
anything important, you know? Come on. >> I think go to the Starling thing. I
00:25:13
think that's uh that is one of the um results of uh not having a uh a dad in
00:25:20
my life and and my wife uh has unlocked this is I'm chasing to be the greatest dad
00:25:31
>> and I and I and I and I I'll never think it's going to be good enough, you know?
00:25:35
So, you want to do more and more and more and more and more and uh and I beat myself up about about stuff. I'm getting
00:25:41
better at it. Um I don't think that the year six graduation versus the Starlink
00:25:46
and SpaceX launch that was a deliberate decision because I was, you know, and um
00:25:52
I talked to my daughter and I said, you know, how this year six graduation, you know, how big a deal it is. I didn't put
00:25:59
any pressure because I'm about to not go and meet Elon Musk and go and watch this
00:26:03
rocket launch. She said, "Dad, it's the biggest moment of my life."
00:26:07
>> And at that point, it was done. There are going to be plenty more rocket
00:26:10
launches, hopefully plenty more opportunities to go to SpaceX, but I'm never going to get that year six
00:26:16
graduation back. >> But don't get me wrong, I don't go to every single thing that she would like
00:26:21
me to go to. So, uh, she had Athletics Day two weeks ago. >> Uh, I couldn't get to it. I know that
00:26:28
other moms and dads uh were there. So, it's not every single event that I that
00:26:33
I get to, but it's the ones that either really are really important to me, uh,
00:26:38
or really important to her or the or the two boys. Uh, and I'm proud to say that
00:26:43
I haven't haven't missed that moment, a moment. And, um, and I'm proud that
00:26:47
actually I've worked for organizations and I've been in teams that have uh,
00:26:51
supported me to make it happen. And, and I would, uh, I would I would them. >> Good on you. I I think that's admirable.
00:26:58
But, devil's advocate. It'd be very easy for you to say, "Listen, my dad didn't
00:27:02
come to any of my things and I turned out fine." >> Yeah, I know. But I So, I think it's
00:27:06
actually more of a That's why I I made that observation. I think it's more of
00:27:11
potentially me driving it. Like, don't get me wrong, >> I think when my daughter was doing her
00:27:15
dance and doing her songs and I was, >> you know, I think it was lovely for her
00:27:20
to see my smiling face, but selfishly, it was even more lovely for me to see her smiling her smiling face. and I
00:27:26
wouldn't want to wanted would have want to be anywhere else than that than that
00:27:30
that that moment. >> But you're right. Um, I don't necessarily think that uh going
00:27:38
to those events is a requirement to demonstrate your love and your commitment to your to your
00:27:45
child >> because there are a whole bunch of people in in New Zealand that love their
00:27:51
kids uh as much as I love mine but don't have the flexibility that I' that I've
00:27:56
got to be able to make make those decisions. >> Yeah. and uh and their kids, as you
00:28:00
said, are going to be super fine uh because of it. >> Yeah. One of the advantages of getting
00:28:07
to the the age that you and I are at now is you realize just um how precious time
00:28:10
is and how fast things go. So the these moments are going to be gone in the blink of an eye. Like your kids are
00:28:15
going to be growing up before you know it, and you're going to be like, "Where
00:28:17
the [ __ ] did the time go?" So it's good that you're um you can be present and be
00:28:20
in the moment and recognize that stuff in real time. My boss said to me, because I'm really emotional about uh
00:28:27
Sam, uh he's got another year and then he goes to university or does whatever
00:28:31
he wants to do. And um I was talking to my boss and said, "Man, I'm feeling
00:28:36
really emotional about him potentially moving out of home." And she said, "That's not the worst part because if
00:28:42
they go to university, they get a whole bunch of holidays and they've got no
00:28:46
money, so they're going to come and see you. When they start working, uh they've
00:28:49
got a bit of money, they get four weeks off. Guess how many of those weeks they want to spend with mom and dad? None.
00:28:55
Unless you pay for them. So that's was even more upsetting. So I am very conscious that uh you know you don't you
00:29:03
don't get those uh those moments back and and um but not just with your uh with your kids,
00:29:10
with uh friends, with with your partner, you know, um with your mom. I remember uh just last week I I I drove into the
00:29:20
driveway and I just had this big really strong uh feeling of missing my grandfather who I would call
00:29:28
periodically and just check in and and say good day. So I all those moments are kind of nice reminder that uh they're
00:29:35
important ones not to miss. >> Yeah. How long has your granddad been gone? Oh,
00:29:44
>> he would be 20 years now. >> Amazing. Yeah. >> You just had this feeling out of the out
00:29:48
of the bolt bolt out of the blue. >> Yeah. >> It's funny that but I think I think
00:29:51
that's the um yeah the ultimate tribute to like a family member that's passed
00:29:55
that 20 years on you they still hold a space in your heart. I think that's really cool.
00:30:00
>> No, I think that's the right way to look at it. Right. if you miss them.
00:30:10
>> 100%. What about what about Ra? So your wife Ra um you've been married like 20
00:30:15
years. >> Yes. >> What's the meat cute? So you met you met in Queenstown?
00:30:19
>> Yeah. So >> love at first sight. >> It was for me. >> I remember I remember her uh I actually
00:30:26
said this to I said, "Remember when we met each other on the 27th of December
00:30:29
and we were walking down the kind of court this courtyard or mall strip and we our eyes locked and that connection
00:30:38
and she's like what?" She had no idea. She was with a group of friends, girls.
00:30:44
I was with a group of friends, boys. And um uh I saw her and thought, "Oh my god."
00:30:51
And uh she didn't even notice me. And then later that night, we ended up being
00:30:57
in the same uh bar and we got there first. Uh there was a table not similar to this. There was four of us here.
00:31:06
There was nowhere else for the girls to sit. They looked everywhere to go somewhere else apart from sit with us.
00:31:11
And then they came in and then we were like w and um uh she was from Oakland, I was from Invagle. Uh we were having
00:31:19
quite a bit of banter about the north versus south. I said to her, "Uh, can I
00:31:24
get you a drink?" And she said, "Uh, well, I'm from Oakuckland, so of course,
00:31:28
uh, I only drink Ballinger." And I was like, "Okay, is it some RTD?" I didn't
00:31:34
know what Ballinger was. So, I went to the bar, not knowing that she was joking, and said, "Can I have a Spates
00:31:39
and a Ballinger? Thank you." And he said, "Are you sure you want a Ballinger?" And I said, "Yep." And he
00:31:45
goes, "Once I open it, I can't take it back." And I thought, it must be like
00:31:50
one of those $10 RTDs. And I looked back at Ra and I was like, "Yeah, she's worth
00:31:53
the 10 bucks." And he came back and I remember him saying, "That's $100." And
00:32:00
I was like, "What do you mean?" He go I said, "What did I just buy?" He said,
00:32:04
"You just bought the most expensive bottle in the bar." I said, "I don't
00:32:08
want it. Take it back." He goes, "I've opened it." So I said, "Have you got
00:32:13
anything by the glass, which is your cheapest?" And so uh I got poured one glass of Ballinger, one glass of the
00:32:21
cheapest bubbles, told this table what had happened. We did a blind taste test with Rachel and she got it wrong.
00:32:28
>> She chose the cheap one is the expensive Ballinger. In her defense, she'd never
00:32:33
tasted Ballinger herself at that point in her life. So she had nothing to benchmark it against. But it's a joke
00:32:38
within our um Yeah. within our our friends and family that uh we both got kind of suck it in that suck it in that
00:32:44
night and the rest is history. Yeah. And she's um she's phenomenal, right? She's
00:32:48
like a Harvard educated lawyer. Is she a partner in a law firm? >> Yeah. So, and an author.
00:32:53
>> I always say she should be the one doing these having these conversations. She is
00:32:59
so much more impressive than I am in every facet. She's not she's s She'll
00:33:05
hate me for saying this. She's slightly uncoordinated, but that's her only.
00:33:09
>> Yes. Perfect in every other way. So we always joked hopefully the kids get my
00:33:14
coordination and everything else uh everything else about her. Um but yeah she uh she's a lawyer um she was a
00:33:22
partner in at Belgali for uh I think she was the youngest partner or one of the youngest partners made up partner for 10
00:33:29
years and uh but I always wanted to write and so um with each child um when she took
00:33:38
uh don't say it's time off because it's not like time off when you're maternity
00:33:42
leave but when she was wasn't working at work and was working at home bringing
00:33:46
the bringing her kids up. She wrote a screenplay with her sister. Um she wrote a play. She wrote a ch a children's
00:33:53
book. And so she's always been quite creative and uh always wanted to be a writer. So when I got the job offer to
00:34:00
go to Vodafone um in London, she resigned from her law firm and that was going to be the time where she was going
00:34:07
to write um in Europe. And then that changed, but she'd resigned from her partnership. Um, and so we stayed in New
00:34:14
Zealand, but she started to started to think about writing. But it was only uh what it would have been kind of 18
00:34:22
months ago, two years ago now, that she decided to commit to it and enrolled herself at the um uh at Oakland
00:34:30
University on the M's creative writing course. And uh she won the Phoenix Prize
00:34:35
um a year ago because the the new Phoenix Prize winner was uh announced last night. And then um her book got
00:34:43
picked up by Hashet um the global publisher >> and it goes on sale in April in the US,
00:34:49
the Australian and the New Zealand market um next year. And also her book's been picked up by Stampede as a Netflix
00:34:59
series. >> So she's amazing. I know. Incredible. What's um so it's a novel?
00:35:04
>> I joke that it's so she's writing about all the ways that she's thought about
00:35:09
killing me. >> So it's a psychological thriller. >> Like a how-to guy.
00:35:15
>> It's a psychological thriller. Uh and um I remember uh we're having a
00:35:21
conversation and she said to me, you know, I could kill you and no one would ever find out. And I was like, what?
00:35:29
What have I done? So, I've always say publicly if I ever go missing or something happens to me and they go,
00:35:34
"Well, that was a surprise." Look at Ra. It wasn't a surprise. I've misstepped
00:35:38
too many times and uh I've been I've been taken out. >> Well, she won't be able to use anything
00:35:42
that's um that's in the book slash Netflix series. >> Exactly. So, look, I'm really I'm really
00:35:47
proud of her. I read a lot of that genre and um uh and I've read uh her script her her
00:35:55
book now probably 30 times and all its different variations, etc. There was only two days where she didn't talk to
00:36:00
me because of some of the feedback that I uh I gave her. Cuz you know, you think
00:36:04
about you're pouring your heart and soul out into it. And I've got a very limited
00:36:09
vocabulary. And so when I'm trying to find words to describe how I can help make the book better, sometimes I can be
00:36:18
a little less sophisticated than I would like like to be. But um >> you need GPT. Another sentence for it's
00:36:24
a bit [ __ ] And so she's done a phenomenal job and um the book is book is amazing and uh
00:36:32
yeah and uh and she's um it's a two-book deal that she was uh signed up for. So
00:36:38
>> she's about I think 25% through um her next her next book her next book now.
00:36:44
>> That's incredible. Yeah. Wow. It's incredible. Yeah. >> And a Yeah. And a and a a grad from
00:36:49
Harvard with a masters in law where she graduated first. Her dissertation at at Harvard was published in the Wall Street
00:36:55
Journal. like uh you know she is she's a super and an amazing mom, great friend. Like
00:37:03
I'm very privileged. >> [ __ ] you're proud, aren't you? >> Ah, so proud. Like seriously. And you
00:37:09
know and uh but I it's not everything that she's doing and the kids are doing.
00:37:14
She's just uh an incredible human being. She's just a special person >> really. What makes her so?
00:37:22
>> Selfless. >> Yeah. Her first thought was about everyone else before herself. Not like
00:37:27
that's just, you know, dissimilar to my mom actually. >> Uh well, they they say you you marry
00:37:32
someone like your mother. >> Yeah. Yeah. And um uh and her parents are the same. Um Liz and Jock,
00:37:38
incredible people. Um you know, who were amazing parents to her as well. And I think that's the the values that they
00:37:45
instilled in all of um >> all of the kids that they had. So uh yeah, >> super super impressive. and her her um
00:37:53
uh her brother's uh got a very successful career in finance. Uh he's got his own fund that uh he's raised
00:38:01
money for and lots of investors are trusting him in. Um and then uh her sister Bridget is the country manager of
00:38:08
Zero. So um very successful uh family. They're all um high achievers but uh fantastic people first.
00:38:16
>> Yeah. And yeah, you guys are um power couple like both um both big jobs. So,
00:38:21
how do you Yeah. What's the um what's the home calendar like? How have you got
00:38:25
like a whiteboard? Is it a blackboard? Is it a just a like a Google calendar? Like how do you how do you make things
00:38:30
work with your various commitments? >> Yeah, it's pretty chaotic. I would say
00:38:33
both uh Ra and I would say that the thing um that we sacrifice the most uh is our own relationship even though it's
00:38:43
super strong and full of love. Uh and also our uh prioritizing ourselves. So, I'd definitely like to go to the gym a
00:38:53
little bit more or um you know spend more me time, but um we prioritize our kids um our work, our friends, our
00:39:06
family, and then we'll kind of get to us and uh and ourselves when we can. And
00:39:12
often you you never get to them. I >> I think that's the same for a lot of
00:39:17
people. Uh, so I'm not saying that we're unusual in in any way, but it's
00:39:21
something we talk about because, you know, when the kids leave home, uh, we don't want to look at each other
00:39:28
and go, "Who the hell are you?" >> That happens a lot. >> Yeah. And so that's something you got to
00:39:33
actively work at, right? You want to make sure that you continue to fall in love with each other is you change
00:39:40
inevitably from when you when you first when you first met. >> So, um, we do. And uh and so I think
00:39:47
that it's healthy to kind of talk about that and and make and make that time for
00:39:51
the relationship. >> What what are your uh big arguments about? Is it kid related or
00:39:57
you you she's a lawyer. You wouldn't want to argue with her, right? You're
00:40:00
>> Yeah. No. No. There's >> you know you're on a hiding to nothing.
00:40:03
>> Yeah. I'm just Yes. Yes, dear. And uh Yeah. So like seriously, we don't
00:40:11
we don't have massive big arguments. So I think probably the the the biggest
00:40:16
challenges that that we have um is how do you ensure um it's probably more about actually the
00:40:26
the challenges of uh of kind of just life and chaos and and busyness and communication more than anything else. I
00:40:33
can be a bit useless and not telling her what's happening when it's uh when it's
00:40:37
busy. And that's probably the biggest thing. >> Bro, I'm I'm exactly the same. uh you
00:40:42
know um you know when your kids in particular boys get home from school and it's hard to get more than a grunt or a
00:40:47
one or two word answer out of them. I'm the same in relationships like if I'm
00:40:50
busy with other stuff it's the communication the first thing that lapses for me and I know it's a I know
00:40:54
it's a work on >> it's hard though e >> it is. Yeah. And also I'm sure I've told
00:40:58
her something and I and I haven't. >> So that's the that's the biggest issue
00:41:02
and it was in my head. I just didn't uh I just didn't say it. >> You need to push harder. Gaslight her. I
00:41:08
definitely told you this. I definitely told you. No, she's got a uh Yeah, she's
00:41:12
got a memory. >> Yeah. Oh, that's great. So So um Yes. So your son's 17 now?
00:41:16
>> Yeah. So uh Sam's 17, uh Oakland grammar. Um great kid. Uh Will's 13
00:41:23
again. Fantastic kid. He's in um in third form Oakland grammar. And then uh our daughter in year six going into year
00:41:31
seven. >> Bum bum bum. You know, so they're >> they're growing up growing up fast. But
00:41:36
um yeah uh I really I'm really really proud of them. Good manners, good values. Uh and all we say to them is be
00:41:44
the best you can be. All I care about is the effort effort mark. The outcome will
00:41:50
be what it will be and they'll find what they love at some point in time. And who
00:41:54
knew what they wanted to be or very few people at 17 or 13 or or 11. I just want
00:41:59
them to try lots of things and be good people and open doors and have good manners and
00:42:04
>> and uh and give it their best and and uh and if they do that, I'm sure it'll work
00:42:08
out fine. >> Yeah, that's bloody great. >> Oh, well done. That's cool. You've got a
00:42:13
few more years before you're an empty neester. >> Yeah, we we have. Yeah.
00:42:16
>> I thought it'd be exciting having one of your kids leave home, especially if
00:42:19
there's a couple of backups. >> No, I'm going to be You're going to be
00:42:22
an emotional mess. >> I'm going to be a mess. It will be >> horrific. Really? Why? Oh, I just love
00:42:28
them so much. And I just >> seriously uh I just I and I when Sam uh turned 17,
00:42:38
>> uh I told him a story uh of when he was born, the day he was born, I don't know,
00:42:43
but I got a cab ride back from the um hospital and uh the cab driver could see that I was really chuffed. And uh he
00:42:51
said, "What are you smiling about?" And I said, "I've had my first son, first
00:42:54
child." And he's a boy. and he said, "Oh, funnily enough, it's my son's
00:42:57
birthday this weekend and he's 21." And he said, "Can I just tell you it gets
00:43:01
better and better and better?" And I said to Sam, "It does." Like, I didn't
00:43:05
want you to grow up when you were three and when you were seven and when you were 10 and when I when you were 13. I
00:43:10
was like, "Nothing's going to be better than this." But it does. And so just so
00:43:16
proud of having my relationship with him and the kids. It's special. >> Yeah. You haven't obviously gone through
00:43:21
the mount difficulty phase yet of the there's got that's got to come. >> No. Yeah. Like not at all. Like you know
00:43:27
of course they always misstep and they do naughty things and they've >> pushing boundaries.
00:43:32
>> Pushing boundaries or I've found them they've you know snuck out the bedroom
00:43:35
window to see their friends and >> vape in the school bag. >> All that. None of them have vape
00:43:40
>> really. Well done. >> Yeah. I used to work for Smokefree way back uh when I was at when I was at
00:43:45
school kind of advocating. uh my grandma um she passed away of um emphymia emphyma whatever it is
00:43:53
>> and um so I've uh yeah but so uh I've kind of installed that installed that
00:43:58
into them >> uh their probably biggest issue is um addiction to devices which
00:44:02
>> you know as being in the industry I'm in um it's a it's a challenge I'm trying to
00:44:07
navigate through at home as as well as for the industry. Oh, it's it it's
00:44:11
tough. Like, um I I've stopped looking at my screen time, my weekly screen time, because it's alarming.
00:44:16
>> It is. >> And you can justify so much of it as um working. Like I'm working. It's a it's a
00:44:20
work tool. But no, a lot of it is a lot of it is mindless scrolling. >> No. Yeah. And I find that myself, you
00:44:25
know, I I'm going, okay, I've just uh you know, I just wind down and look at a
00:44:30
couple of things on Instagram and it's 9:45 and then all of a sudden it's
00:44:34
11:00. I just lost an hour looking at funny pet videos and like what the hell where did that where did that go? And
00:44:44
you can see you know hopefully my brain is a bit more developed than a 13-year-old or a 17y old but yeah you
00:44:50
can see uh that you know >> they are developed to keep you >> oh they're addictive. Yeah it's
00:44:58
>> I heard a podcast that's saying it's um sort of yeah the screen and the way it
00:45:01
looks and feels and sounds is based on like slot machines. >> Yes. Yes. Um, yeah. Yeah. But and the
00:45:06
the meta algorithms are so good. Like I get to see so many videos of dogs that look like mine.
00:45:12
>> An hour is nothing, mate. >> I know. It It feels like it it's always
00:45:16
listening to you as well, right? Like, and I just like all of a sudden, you know, um uh I turned 50 and I'm getting
00:45:24
uh you know, gut health bloating 50-year-old ads on social media and I'm like, are you trying to tell me
00:45:33
something here? you know, whatever it is. So, >> oh, magnesium supplements for me. Yeah.
00:45:37
Yeah. It's good though. It's helpful. It is. >> Um, hey, let's talk about your career,
00:45:40
the career stuff. So, um, so you left school, you went to university for 3 months.
00:45:46
>> So, >> what happened there? >> So, applied for teacher training college
00:45:50
and, uh, got rejected and then, um, came back from a south and rugby trip, uh, and then went to, um, Trust Bank
00:46:00
Southland and but I always thought that I would want to go to university because I had a a view in
00:46:09
my head that um if you wanted to get a big job um whatever the industry was and I wasn't too sure that you needed to
00:46:17
have a a degree and so was basically saving money up to uh not take up I took take on too much debt when I go to go to
00:46:26
university and I my best mate is um uh was actually a year younger uh than me and and then my other best
00:46:35
mate was two years uh two years younger than me and so we were uh thinking about
00:46:41
all going together and so uh we all worked um for a period of time in in Chicago before we went to kind of
00:46:48
university in the same in the same year. >> Uh I was um the year before I went to university I
00:46:58
took a job that was paying more than the bank in radio sales. So I uh started being a radio sales sales guy and um
00:47:07
then left to go to university and then three months after uh I was at university the radio station manager
00:47:15
turned up at my flat and said hey um we've missed you uh we'll double your
00:47:21
salary and if you come back so um I called I was doing a double major in marketing and information science back
00:47:29
then like technology and I remember I called the careers advisor um at the Atago University and I said, "Hey, look,
00:47:36
I've just got this job offer, but I'm really enjoying this information science
00:47:41
thing." And I remember she said to me, "There's no money in tech. Take the
00:47:44
job." So, uh I took the job and uh the rest is history. And that kind of that
00:47:50
that created uh I suppose my set me on my career of kind of sales and marketing. So people come through the
00:47:59
ranks you know in finance or operations um uh my my my background is in has been
00:48:06
in sales and marketing. So I just progressively moved from Invagle uh to Wellington uh and then to uh
00:48:14
Oakland after I met my uh after I met Ra >> and uh have been kind of a sales and
00:48:20
marketing background ever since. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I suppose once you get
00:48:22
that um that opportunity and you start getting a bit of career momentum like the degree thing becomes less and less
00:48:27
important. But like if you look at jobs now on say Casil or whatever like most of them say you know the you know entry
00:48:34
level requirement is a is a degree and whatever it happens to be. So how did you get like the um marketing manager
00:48:40
job at McDonald's without a degree? >> Uh I just applied for it. >> Yeah. They didn't they didn't ask they
00:48:44
just assumed. >> No. So it actually wasn't a requirement to be honest and um my boss now uh well
00:48:51
my boss back then and Suckloff's another good mate good mate of mine and kind of
00:48:56
uh I I my view is once you get the interview once you get the foot in the door >> um
00:49:04
uh the qualifications don't necessarily really really matter um >> in my view unless you're a doctor you
00:49:10
know you got something who's a who's a who's a specialist. >> This guy's got a good attitude. Yeah.
00:49:14
Yeah. >> You can do my brain operation, >> but uh when you're coming through the
00:49:17
ranks of sales and marketing and he just took a he could took a chance on me at crack
00:49:21
>> and that was my kind of first big marketing role was um was at McDonald's
00:49:26
up until then. um uh I was kind of a sales and marketer and um and so yeah, he uh he took my he took his first big
00:49:34
first big punt and then it started it wasn't really McDonald's role but the Nokia role, the TV and Zed
00:49:45
role, the media media works role, the telecom role, uh even um possibly the uh the Vodafone
00:49:56
role. having a degree never came up. I think people probably just assumed >> or it gets to the point where you've got
00:50:05
so much experience it just doesn't matter. >> Doesn't matter. But the I did have a
00:50:09
chip on my shoulder about it. Uh and when I was at TBNZ, my boss Rick Ellis, >> I talked to him about it openly and um
00:50:20
he said, "Shit, I didn't know that you didn't have a degree." And he said, "I
00:50:24
never would have thought um you know, you're smart, you're articulate, you can
00:50:29
you know, you're structured in the way that you think and and uh and write, >> but that's was created basically on four
00:50:37
years of work experience while others had four years of structured structured learning." And so, as we just said
00:50:42
before, like Rachel and I are the complete opposite ends of the education spectrum, masters from Harvard, no
00:50:50
university degree. So, uh, TV and Zed and Rick funded me to do a business course at at Harvard. I think it was in
00:50:58
2008. And, um, I went across there and there were people from all around the world.
00:51:06
And within 24 hours, I was like, I'm as good as them. Like, I can have conversations about the case studies. I
00:51:15
can get the uh the concepts of the models. I can uh debate uh with them. I can ideate.
00:51:23
And that was a it was a really big um psychological moment for me in my career whether I realized
00:51:33
um that I didn't have that I wasn't smart. You know, I didn't have an issue
00:51:38
with not being smart enough to >> be able to um you know, be the CEO of a of of an organ of an organization. And
00:51:46
so, uh, it was probably an impediment or a hurdle that I was putting on myself versus others were putting on me at at
00:51:54
that at that point in time. And, um, it never it never really never really came up from that from that point because, as
00:52:00
you said, your experience, your track record, New Zealand's a village. People
00:52:05
know what you're doing, good or bad, every day. Um, and if your track record
00:52:10
is is good and and you're doing what you said you'd do and you're showing up
00:52:14
well, then then opportunities open up for you. >> Yeah, 100%. Um, yeah. Do you think are
00:52:19
you familiar with imposter syndrome? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Do you feel like um you were sort
00:52:24
of experiencing that when you went to see Rick Ellis? >> Oh, absolutely. >> A degree of that.
00:52:28
>> And I think it's still there's still a degree of that in me now. I'm still
00:52:32
waiting for Yeah. I still seriously I I would say uh at least every month if not every
00:52:40
week I go, "How the hell did someone like me get here?" Like, it's just
00:52:46
bizarre. I'm waiting for someone to tap me on the shoulder and go, "How the hell
00:52:49
did you get here?" And I'll go, "I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Games up. Uh
00:52:54
>> you got me. >> You got me." Uh I I just genuinely uh cannot believe how lucky I am that uh
00:53:04
and that's every job like you know I said I giving me the crack at McDonald's
00:53:07
Mari giving me the crack at uh Trust Bank Southland >> um the radio station manager picking me
00:53:15
back out of uh out of university. Um Rick Ellis uh just you know grabbing me out of London and then sending me to
00:53:23
Harvard. um Simon Mutter uh giving me the opportunity to do the telecom to Spark,
00:53:30
run twothirds of their of their of their business. Like it's just it's absolutely
00:53:35
incredible uh that these people have. >> Yeah. >> Um given me the given me the
00:53:41
opportunities that uh that they have and you don't want to let them down. Uh
00:53:46
yeah. And I've you know that I think I've got the imposter syndrome as a dad,
00:53:51
you know, never going to be good enough. I've got the imposter syndrome is um um
00:53:55
as part of the team as well that you're never going to be good enough and that
00:53:59
drives me. >> I think it's quite um it shouldn't be but I think it's quite brave or
00:54:03
courageous of you to to admit that because um >> imposter syndrome or >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean I feel like
00:54:10
there's a degree of um you know, you're supposed to have people talk about fake
00:54:14
it till you make it. um you know um but I think I think most of us I've had heaps of All Blacks on the podcast and
00:54:21
they all admit the same thing like the first day they turned up you know so they'll have a killer super season or
00:54:25
whatever and then turn up to the all black training they'll be like [ __ ] I
00:54:27
don't belong here um I think it's it's really refreshing to admit that
00:54:31
>> especially six years under the desk >> it's it's true you know uh and and
00:54:36
hopefully you can use it as a driver >> um versus uh yeah versus feeling uncertain.
00:54:45
So, uh, yeah, but it's it's there. It's there every day. I just I just go, "How the
00:54:51
hell did this happen?" Uh, and how do I, uh, you know, work hard enough to make
00:54:57
sure that the music doesn't stop? >> Is that exhausting? >> Uh, yeah. Like the CEO roles are
00:55:04
actually any industry. Like it's they're tiring. They're 20 24/7. and and I've
00:55:10
purposefully decided that my role as a CEO is a 24/7 role because I want to be as accessible to as many people as
00:55:18
possible on every social media platform, too. You know, I every conversation I have with anyone, I always give them out
00:55:26
my personal email address and I tell them that I'm your personal account manager and I'm your personal account
00:55:32
manager, too, Dom. And um uh because uh I want them to know that I take the role that we play in their lives really
00:55:41
really seriously. One, >> two, it's the best way for me to know what's happening in the business, good
00:55:45
and bad. >> Um and uh and three, I think it's my job. Like everyone in the organization
00:55:52
should be the the best sales and service person that they that they can be. But that means, you know, Friday nights,
00:55:58
Saturdays, Sundays, I'll be checking my phone because if I get an email, it means the shit's at the fan. A customer
00:56:05
has a massive issue in their business or in their life for them at that point in
00:56:09
time and um they've tried as much as they possibly can and uh and they haven't got what they needed to and so I
00:56:15
I'm in a position to be able to help. Yeah, you're you're very active on
00:56:18
LinkedIn and I've seen um like a couple of comments where there's been you've
00:56:23
put up a post about something completely unrelated and someone will write a comment bitching about some data issue
00:56:28
or whatever it happens to be and then you'll respond with your email address.
00:56:31
So, how does your email work? Does it get directed to a PA and then they >> go straightly to me?
00:56:37
>> So, I read every single apart from if I'm on holiday um I'll read every single
00:56:42
email that uh that comes through. I'll respond to every single email personally, but then uh I have a team of
00:56:51
about four or five people that don't just support me. They triage the most gnarly uh issues that come through the
00:56:57
business. Uh some of which come to me and then they will account manage them in to make sure that they get they get
00:57:03
fixed because New Zealanders are good good people. Um, and if when it gets to me, we've normally, you know, pissed
00:57:10
them off to a point where it's the last straw >> and they're going, "You need to know
00:57:14
what's happening in your organization." So, uh, I'll send, uh, three emails out
00:57:20
to our customer base a year. I have done that since I started. Uh, I used to get
00:57:26
about a thousand emails back. I'd read all of them um within 24 hours, respond
00:57:32
within 48 hours and then this team would help fix them and um and address them. That that email volume's at least halves
00:57:42
now. So um I always put my personal email address at the bottom. Always say if you got anything that I can help
00:57:48
with, let me know. Uh so I'll probably get 500 emails. I would say half of them
00:57:53
are now compliments. they would go, "You know what? You're doing a much better
00:57:57
job than you were. Well done." Uh, and then the other half are, "Actually,
00:58:01
you're still doing a pretty shitty job. I need you to fix need you to fix this."
00:58:05
Um, but again, you know, it's a it's a it's a calculated investment because I
00:58:10
know I've talked to thousands of our customers over a year. And so I know pretty well what is going on in our
00:58:19
business and where we're up to scratch and where and where we're not and what
00:58:23
we need to focus on and uh and do. So it's a it's a it's an investment that um
00:58:29
that is a really smart one because it's the only way that you know what's really
00:58:32
happening in your business is by talking to as many customers as you as you can.
00:58:36
>> Yeah. And that's a very um conscious and deliberate decision I guess to be a
00:58:40
visible CEO. >> Yeah. >> Um where did that stem from? Did you get the idea from anyone else or the
00:58:45
inspiration or is this just you as a person? >> No, it's just me like you know just um I
00:58:49
like people get my energy from them. Uh I like yeah I you know I like uh hearing
00:58:57
from our customers. It it helps us make decisions, helps me drive change through
00:59:01
the organization. Uh I feel like if I uh if I engage and I can acknowledge and say sorry if a
00:59:11
customer and there are very few of them now that's a dick. I can call them out
00:59:15
too and go you know what disagree with that. I think you're being unfair when
00:59:20
you have a crack at a team member or where you're criticizing us in this in this way. I can only to honest I can
00:59:26
only think of a handful of times where I've had to do that and stick up stick
00:59:29
up for my team. But I think um you know by being visible and uh and apologizing and getting some things sorted also
00:59:37
gives you permission to draw a line in the sand and go well no hold a minute don't agree with that don't agree with
00:59:42
your pos your posture or your position or your criticism of us and and sorry but uh you know we won't be moving
00:59:48
forward on that one so that's fine too. Yeah. Well, a lot a lot of the time people just want to be heard, don't
00:59:52
they? >> They do. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But um Oh, no. Good. Good for
00:59:57
doing that. Oh, there was a thing on your LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago as well about you um u making a very public
01:00:01
stand. Um what happened? You banned banned a couple of customers from one of your stores. What happened there?
01:00:06
>> Yeah. So, this has been a problem that's been growing in retail for uh all
01:00:12
industries for quite some time. So, you know, everyone will be famili familiar with the smash and grabs at Michael Hill
01:00:18
jewelers, you know, the ram raids and that kind of stuff. And uh, man, that's a terrifying, horrific
01:00:27
experience. And can I, as I said on LinkedIn a few a few weeks ago, these are grandmothers, grandfathers, uncles,
01:00:38
aunties, moms, dads, sons, daughters, cousins, friends. New Zealanders just like you or me
01:00:47
>> trying to do a job to help people that do not need to put up with that type of
01:00:52
crap. All right. Um, now we're lucky that the RAM raids that have impacted our retail stores have been at night.
01:01:00
Um, people come in. What they don't know is that all of our devices in a safe
01:01:04
they can't get to. And they think that the devices that are in our retail stores will work. They're not. They're
01:01:09
dummy devices, right? You can use them, but you disconnect them. They're dummy
01:01:13
devices. You can't put a SIM card into them. You can't use them. Um, so when
01:01:17
they do RAM raid, they don't there's nothing of value that they they take.
01:01:21
But in this instance, um, you know, society is getting more problematic. We've got people coming into our retail
01:01:28
stores trying to intimidate, being aggressive, swearing. Now, I know they're stressed. It's tough economic
01:01:35
times. We've come through co, come through a recession, all that kind of stuff, but it's just
01:01:40
um, but everyone's dealing with issues in their life, and you can't take it out
01:01:46
on our on our people. And so, um, this was an instance where someone was changing, uh, over a phone and they had
01:01:55
forgotten their Apple ID. It's not our job to change over their phone for them,
01:01:59
but our our, um, uh, our salesperson was doing them a favor by trying to help them migrate all their photos and data,
01:02:08
but you need your Apple ID >> to be able to make it happen. And they'd
01:02:11
forgotten it >> and it wasn't working. And so they lost it >> and was punching them and beating them
01:02:18
up. And then someone else came in and they took a swing at them and then they were abusing people and etc. And um and
01:02:26
one of them had to go to hospital and just I was just pissed off. I was like this is not good enough. It's
01:02:30
unacceptable. And so we've just we've kicked them off the network and they'll never be allowed
01:02:36
back. And um that's a big move right that we'd take in very rare instances.
01:02:43
But I'm sorry if uh if that's what you're going to do, then we don't want
01:02:47
you part of our um part of the team. >> So uh yeah, so they will never be a one
01:02:54
New Zealand customer uh ever ever again and um they can find another telco to uh
01:02:59
to connect with. >> Yeah. To me that doesn't that doesn't feel like a huge move. Like that's
01:03:04
outrageous behavior. Like it's incredibly poor form. Like how how traumatic for the staff members
01:03:09
involved. >> Oh, massively. And and actually I think you know when we're supporting them and
01:03:14
I I talked to them on the day and then um the week after >> uh but you just don't know how you're
01:03:19
going to feel and uh and and then they came back into store and of course they're feeling a bit of apprehensive
01:03:24
because no one expects someone to take a swing at you or try to beat the [ __ ] out
01:03:29
of you when you're trying to help them. >> No. >> And that happened and and uh it was un
01:03:33
like it was they didn't couldn't predict it. this person was clearly like up
01:03:37
until that point was getting agitated and frustrated but frustrated about the device not at them and then lost it. Uh
01:03:44
and so who's next? they'll be they'll be thinking so you know um it is it is rare
01:03:51
but uh yeah I just wanted to draw a line on the sand and say it's unacceptable
01:03:55
and and this type of behavior increases over Christmas which is why I did it I I
01:03:59
you know sent a timely reminder now >> as people get stressed uh over that kind
01:04:04
of busy Christmas and New Year period just remember that everyone's just trying to do a job they're trying to
01:04:09
navigate through life they're trying to help you and support you and they don't
01:04:12
deserve um you know you taking your anger out on Yeah, good on you. >> Yeah.
01:04:17
>> Um and why the rebrand? The rebrand from um Vodafone to one NZ. >> Yeah, a bunch of reasons. Um first one
01:04:24
is uh it's a brand that we didn't own Vodafone and we were paying tens of
01:04:29
millions of dollars overseas for and that money is better re being reinvested back into into New Zealand. Um the
01:04:37
majority of that money is being reinvested into SpaceX into our partnership with them and that'll be a
01:04:42
gamecher you know um getting your uh backup connectivity from space uh instead of on the ground in in New
01:04:50
Zealand. So that's one uh two uh look the the Vodafone brand in New Zealand started off with a hiss and a roar. It
01:05:00
was the leader in mobility. And then when I started six years ago, man, I used to get a lot of crap at barbecues.
01:05:07
People would go, "Your service isn't great. I've had a really shitty
01:05:10
experience. I couldn't recommend you." And New Zealanders have got long
01:05:13
memories. And so over the next kind of three or four years, so up until two years ago, we'd invested so much in our
01:05:20
network and our and you know, the best network in the country, our service, we'd back ourselves to have the best
01:05:26
service results in the country. People have long memories. Um, but I remembered from the Spark Telecom to Spark change,
01:05:34
New Zealanders will give you another chance, especially if you do a bit of a rebrand. They'll go, oh, maybe something
01:05:40
is different there. And so the rebrand was also a reconsideration moment. So people to go, give us another give us
01:05:47
another try. And so, uh, we did it a rebrand to have a bit of a refresh there. And then the third thing is we
01:05:54
felt that in terms of a position uh we felt that there was a an opportunity for a New Zealand telco to
01:06:02
stand more for this country and more for New Zealand than any other. So um two degrees is trying to stand for price.
01:06:11
Spark I think was standing for kind of partnerships like Spotify and we wanted to stand for the best of New Zealand and
01:06:17
we felt that there was a kind of a brand positioning. So saving money that can be
01:06:21
re reinvested, a reconsideration moment, so convince people to give us a second go. Um and then that and then that
01:06:29
positioning. So those were the three three big reasons and thankfully uh the team did a much better job of my telecom
01:06:38
to Spark uh project and and and all three of them have paid off. Not that the telecom to Spark one didn't.
01:06:44
>> Yeah, I was going to say that was that was fine, wasn't it? >> Yeah, it was good. just it takes a while
01:06:47
for these names to wash out, but eventually you just forget about it. >> And look, ultimately, you're right, it's
01:06:52
not the name, it's the actions. >> So, as long as you don't completely
01:06:56
screw up the name choice, >> it's really the actions that you take. >> What other names were on the short list?
01:07:02
>> Well, my favorite uh the one that I was advocating for, they did they dismissed.
01:07:07
I I really liked Spirit, but uh it got dismissed because Spirit of New Zealand uh the boat, you know, and a good mate
01:07:15
of mine, Bruce, runs that. And I would have had a conversation and go, "Hey,
01:07:18
thought about doing a partnership with a with a telco." >> Um yeah, and so there were five names. Um I
01:07:25
can't remember the others and uh and that was the one that the team went with.
01:07:29
>> And then it just it just goes, >> as I said, it's really not the name.
01:07:33
It's is your network good, is your service good, is your pricing good, have you got good people, have you got good
01:07:40
partnerships? Uh, and if you nail those things, that's more important than the
01:07:44
name. >> Yeah. And and names names of um brands always sound weird in the beginning. Um,
01:07:48
yeah, I remember I was at Media Works when um, uh, Mark Welen, who was the CEO, turned the news into Newshub. Yeah.
01:07:54
>> And everyone was like, Newshub, what it looks like Pornhub, what is it? But
01:07:57
after a while, it just becomes a a thing. Yeah. >> You guys did, I think, a good job of
01:08:01
this. um or your team didn't and they got you involved with it. Um a Tik Tok
01:08:05
uh where you're reading out messages um just basically people [ __ ] you mean
01:08:09
tweets [ __ ] on the name cuz Kiwis love that self-deprecating sort of humor, right?
01:08:14
>> Yeah, that was an embarrassing like my kids were like, "Oh my dad, you're so
01:08:18
cringe, you know." Um cuz I think uh they one of them was something about 42
01:08:27
and they were like and they were pissed themselves cuz I didn't realize that uh
01:08:31
420 was the name for a drug or whatever it is. And so yeah, so there was lots of
01:08:35
things that not only uh were funny because people were taking the piss about the name, but it also funny
01:08:41
because uh it showed my naivity in a whole bunch of areas. >> And well, you mentioned um the um SpaceX
01:08:47
thing before. Is that that that's the same as the um the Starlink thing? >> Yeah. So, how did that come about?
01:08:53
>> By the way, as as a trail runner, this is so exciting. >> Yeah. No, it is. So, uh we've been
01:08:58
working with um with Starlink broadband for quite some time. So, and it really came into its own off the back of
01:09:06
Cyclone Gabriel because we could uh when power was out, um when fiber was out, we
01:09:15
could deploy the Starlink broadband satellite dishes. We did it for the New Zealand Defense Force. We did it for the
01:09:23
airports where we could get Wi-Fi connectivity connected to a generator because when you lose connectivity,
01:09:31
it's your lifeline. You can't tell people that you need help. You can't
01:09:34
tell people that you're safe. You can't tell them where you are and you massive
01:09:40
anxiety for people that love you and also the people that you love. M >> and so uh I talked to the team about um
01:09:50
SpaceX's Starlink to mobile service and so uh how was that progressing and we'd had a
01:09:58
conversation with them but the price that they'd quoted us was massive way like so expensive there was
01:10:07
no way that we could afford it and so I decided that I'd like to have a crack at
01:10:12
convincing them that they should give us a better deal. And so we basically did a
01:10:17
pitch to them and said, "Look, 60 million sheep, five million people. Uh it's the same population as Alabama
01:10:25
and the US. Um you know, we're a rugged country of explorers. We're the perfect
01:10:31
test case for this technology. We're fast adopters of technology. We've got a
01:10:38
partnership with you on Starlink broadband. Uh we've just had a massive cyclone uh
01:10:45
that's devastated parts of the country. We had floods in our major city. This is
01:10:50
going to be a lifecher. Um 40% of um Alteora doesn't have coverage. Uh we love fishing.
01:10:59
You know, uh we'd love to partner with you. We're really bloody easy. Um and so
01:11:06
we pitched to them and uh and they said yes. And so we signed the deal. Uh and it happened so quickly actually that um
01:11:17
it was only about a month before we were changing from Vodafone to one. And so the team decided to make it as part of
01:11:26
the kind of launch day at the at the kind of last last minute. And um uh yeah, we announced it at the same time
01:11:34
as a good example of the money that we were saving by rebranding being invested back into into New Zealand. And you
01:11:41
know, you asked me before about proud moments in my career. This is probably going to be
01:11:50
up there if not the number one just because if we can help save one life through this technology, it'll be uh
01:11:58
it'll be worth it. And um it's amazing, you know, uh we're doing all the all the
01:12:04
testing now, but uh you have a a a smartphone, compatible smartphone in your pocket. Uh and what compatible
01:12:12
means is why we're doing all the testing. Um and you're you can see the sky.
01:12:19
uh then you'll be able to uh get a connection with the satellite traveling 500 km above you in space
01:12:30
uh traveling at 27,000 km an hour in sequence in a constellation with others first by text um and that's when we have
01:12:40
about 300 satellites up that uh you'll be able to do text service. We need over
01:12:45
a thousand before you can do voice service. And then no matter where you are in New Zealand, you'll have coverage
01:12:53
because of satellites in the uh in space as long as you can see the see the sky and you have a compatible uh smart
01:13:02
smartphone. >> It's insane. It's an absolute game changer, right? >> Oh, no. It's it is. It's um it's going
01:13:08
to be it's going to be amazing. And so we're uh we're doing all the testing at
01:13:11
the moment across uh all parts of New Zealand, load testing, customer experience testing, device testing,
01:13:18
location testing. So it's working uh when you see the sky, it's working in
01:13:24
buildings. When you're close to windows, but when it, you know, just like any um
01:13:29
any coverage that you've got uh in an elevator, you don't get coverage. Uh in
01:13:34
a mine, you don't get coverage. Underwater, you don't get coverage. Um and we just need to see where this um
01:13:41
the satellite coverage will uh will reach. So yeah, it's cool. >> So while the negotiations were going on,
01:13:46
were you were you worried that conversations were going on with your opposition or anything like that or
01:13:51
>> Yeah, like you never know. Um and that's why you have to move fast.
01:13:57
uh and I think that's one of the advantages that uh we we do have um is that we'll move quickly that we're easy
01:14:07
to partner with um that we had you know a lot of ambition in terms of what this could do
01:14:14
for the country and how we could be a test case for them for the world. Um and then we signed up to a period of
01:14:22
exclusivity uh with them as well to make sure that um you know we could we could
01:14:27
get it for a a period of time to kind of create a strategic advantage for us. >> The only thing I would say is uh when
01:14:34
the voice service goes live we are going to make sure that everyone can access this uh the 111 service regardless of
01:14:43
which telco you're with. So although I'd love personally everyone to be with one
01:14:47
New Zealand, if you are with two degrees, if you are with Spark and you are somewhere remote, once our um voice
01:14:55
service launches on the Starlink SpaceX service, if you need emergency services,
01:15:00
you'll be able to um you'll be able to get help no matter what telco you're
01:15:03
with. It's a kind of a gift gift to New Zealand from a health and safety perspective. I don't want anyone getting
01:15:08
in trouble just because they haven't chosen the right telco provider. >> Yeah, it feels like that's probably the
01:15:12
responsible thing to do, right? >> Oh yeah, it is the right thing. That's
01:15:14
why I'm going to be really proud that uh we're leading this and there are other
01:15:18
satellite providers. Um SpaceX and Elon Musk are way ahead of probably, you know, they're years ahead of um of
01:15:26
anyone else. >> And um I love the fact that, you know, um when we make a big move like this,
01:15:32
everyone tries to play catch-up. I think uh competition is good, right? >> Oh, absolutely. It's necessary.
01:15:37
Otherwise, nothing nothing gets changed. Nothing gets done. Did did you have any
01:15:41
direct dealings with um Elon Musk? >> I've only I've had two uh email
01:15:46
conversations with him. Um one was on the with on the deal. Um uh the other one was when we did our uh our launch um
01:15:56
video and uh we sent it through to them for approval and he said, "I love it. Uh
01:16:01
you've just taken stock footage of a Russian rocket, not a SpaceX rocket, cuz
01:16:06
you >> Oh my god. >> Excuse me." So, can you please change that out? So, uh that was a uh that was
01:16:13
a a slight a slight miss. >> Uh and then the um >> it's like the McDonald's place all over
01:16:21
again. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then the third third thing which wasn't uh was indirect is
01:16:24
when we um when we started doing our testing in New Zealand, he um he messaged saying cool on uh on X. So
01:16:33
yeah, but um you know uh regardless of whether you agree uh with his politics or his views uh on life in general, he
01:16:43
is a technology genius and um >> you know uh the intent of saving humanity and prolonging humanity and
01:16:52
giving as many people access to this amazing technology as possible. >> You know what's not to love about that?
01:16:56
>> Oh yeah. I mean yeah I know he's polarizing but the guy's an absolute
01:17:00
genius. like he's he he's got goals and plans to change the world. Like he's
01:17:04
already looking at life on Mars and things like that. And you just think of the impact that Tesla's had on the um on
01:17:08
the e- car market. If it wasn't for Tesla, we we wouldn't have um Pollster
01:17:12
or BYD. No, >> we probably still just have like Priuses driving around, >> which is why competition is good, right?
01:17:17
And um you know and and again we're I'm proud we were the uh we're the second
01:17:22
tal in the world and the and the a first in the southern hemisphere to partner with SpaceX and Starlink from little old
01:17:29
little old New Zealand. Uh that's New Zealand at its best. So I love that stuff right that kind of can do attitude
01:17:36
and um New Zealanders are good people. Uh we're bold, we're brave, we're
01:17:40
cheeky, we'll ask, you know, what's the worst that can happen? Just get a no.
01:17:44
And more than often than not, it pays off. And it did. it did in this instance as well. And uh and I think you know New
01:17:50
Zealand does it best. We do deals like that more and more. >> Yeah, that's a bon e. It's very brash.
01:17:56
>> Yeah, but it is seriously New Zealand at its best. And that's a one of the things
01:17:59
I am a little bit um you know I get on my soap box about is there's and you know we were talking before this is an
01:18:08
amazing country >> you know and uh and it's we have to remind ourselves uh of that it's to to
01:18:14
live and work in New Zealand the greatest country on the planet >> and it's our job to kind of keep it that
01:18:19
way but you hear this negativity from some parts of the country and some groups I just dismiss it you replace it
01:18:27
with positive positivity. You need more positivity, more good news stories, you know, more innovation, more bold moves,
01:18:34
more big plays, uh more innovation, more partnerships. That's that's when we've always been at
01:18:41
our best when we when we do that, right? So, um we need to see more of it. And I
01:18:46
I do feel like starting to get some green shoots of uh of our mojo back, which will be fantastic.
01:18:53
>> Yeah. Well, there's always going to be the you know, the winters of society,
01:18:56
isn't there? It's always going to that's always going to be there unfortunately.
01:18:59
But um J how are you doing for time? We haven't even talked about the WS yet.
01:19:02
>> Oh I know. My favorite my favorite topic. And uh speaking about social media Dom. Yeah that's whenever there's
01:19:09
a Warriors game. My wife now confiscates my mobile phone. Uh that's also a perfect example of why you shouldn't be
01:19:17
on social media after you've had a glass of wine. Uh it's also a perfect example
01:19:21
of uh I am me 100% of the time, right? doesn't matter. And I've got to remind
01:19:27
myself uh at times that uh at all the at all times I'm Jason Paris the dad, but
01:19:34
I'm also Jason I'm Jason Paris the worry supporter. I'm also Jason Paris the CEO
01:19:38
of uh of One New Zealand. So, um, and I look, I'm not I'm not that guy who's the
01:19:46
screaming parent from the side of the sports field or uh at a game um abusing refs or players at all. Um I was just as
01:19:59
a fan I was really frustrated because I I feel I feel like that um sometimes uh the New Zealand teams especially the
01:20:07
Warriors Warriors in any sporting competition get a um yeah don't get consistency at times.
01:20:13
>> Yeah. So this was this was a tweet you wrote in the 2023 season. Um what was
01:20:18
it? Yeah. Was there backlash? Do you get in trouble? >> No. I >> I haven't had to buy a beer in New
01:20:22
Zealand since. >> So that's been good. I got a lot of support. like a massive amount of
01:20:26
support because you you watch it and they they go to the bunker for just about every single Anyway, I don't want
01:20:32
to get you riled up with it. don't no but like the the end of the day um refs
01:20:37
are human and they are just trying to do their best and all of us make mistakes >> and so what I was asking for was
01:20:45
consistency and I think um yeah the way that uh I communicated if I had my time again um I'd probably say it in a
01:20:52
different in a different way >> to get a different to get a better outcome but um you know it it just
01:20:59
demonstrated again hopefully you know uh how proud I am to be a of uh the team that supports the the Warriors, the
01:21:06
>> they're a fantastic club, fantastic organization. Uh I don't know if you've
01:21:09
met Cam George, but man, he's a he's amazing. Andrew Webster, what a leader.
01:21:15
>> I've had him on the podcast. Amazing guy. >> Yeah, just a phenomenal guy, right? And
01:21:19
um again, just great values, good people, great work ethic. I love what the club stands for. Five teams next
01:21:27
year. Um female teams going to going to be launching. Um, so feel like we're
01:21:34
building some momentum to win our first ever premiership. >> Yeah. And so that wait, do you get into
01:21:39
trouble with anyone? Like who who tells the CEO off? >> Yeah. Well, no one really, but you know,
01:21:43
the NRL were a bit pissed off saying, you know, you can't you can't criticize
01:21:48
uh you can't criticize our refs. So I had a conversation with them and said,
01:21:52
yeah, that wasn't the that wasn't the intention behind it. Uh it was to get,
01:21:55
you know, a uh a fair uh a fair go for uh the the one New Zealand one New Zealand Warriors. Um so I got a um I got
01:22:04
a request from the NRL to be a Facebook friend after that. So I think we've made
01:22:08
>> We're good. We're good. Um >> yeah. So So Vodafone and now one have
01:22:12
been um God, you've been sponsoring the Warriors for Is it the longest partnership in the NRL?
01:22:16
>> It is. Yeah. >> What's what's the what's the ROI for you
01:22:19
guys? It must be a huge expense. >> Uh well, no actually it's um Yeah, it's
01:22:23
pretty good. It's pretty good value. Like I'm I can't say the exact number
01:22:26
because they've got a lot of lot of sponsorships and a lot of commercial commercial partners, but look, I think
01:22:31
it's a it's a it's a fair amount to pay for a long-term sponsorship where you get
01:22:40
the good with the bad and increasingly more of the good. So, it's >> They're a heartbreaking team, aren't
01:22:48
they? >> They are. But the most loyal fan base >> Yeah. Um the team behind it do an
01:22:55
incredible job for the fans. You know, sellout crowds. Uh they take the game throughout the
01:23:02
country. Their values and ethics are again New Zealand at its best. Hard work, innovation, honesty, trust, you
01:23:12
know, um recruiting good people first across, you know, every part of the organization. So
01:23:19
yeah, and and then you have years like the last couple with the up the wires momentum, you know, making the finals,
01:23:28
sellout crowds, playing really well, scoring spectacular tries, fantastic defense, attracting, you know, huge
01:23:36
talent from Australia where we had to previously pay over the odds and now we pay, you know, market rates for. Um,
01:23:44
yeah, we're in a really good really good shape actually. So, it's a fantastic
01:23:50
sponsorship where I'd like to think that we get amazing value for money and so do
01:23:54
the Warriors because, you know, we amplify their brand and use our platforms to do that
01:23:59
>> do that too. So, >> yeah. Whenever it comes up for renewal, like you're a massive fanboy, like we've
01:24:03
established that. When whenever it comes up for renewal, do you come up against some resistance from people in the team
01:24:08
like, "Oh, let's go." >> No, no, not at all. And I've I've said
01:24:11
to Cam if uh if I had my uh my time, I'd sign sign a 100red-year contract. Uh
01:24:16
that's not my job. It's probably past my past my DF past my DFA. Yeah. >> But you know um like no, we always
01:24:24
compare it to other sponsorships that are available in the market and uh and how much you'd pay pay for them and it's
01:24:30
it's great value for money. Um and it's not really a sponsorship, but it really
01:24:35
is a partnership. It's it's a friendship even. you know, we've got each other's
01:24:39
back after 20 25 years. And if it's not 100, I hope it's another another 25. And
01:24:44
there'll be good times and bad. And I think that's why the fans in New Zealand
01:24:47
respect us as well. It's why it's often called the one New Zealand Warriors.
01:24:50
People >> no matter, you know, who are fans or the media are happy to give us the
01:24:54
attribution because because of the the loyalty. And other thing I would say is that the game is going from strength to
01:25:01
strength. You know, the NRL, they are so innovative. the way that they've sped the game up, the way they
01:25:07
packaged the game up, the way they test and trial rules and and to keep the game, you know, the the the ball and
01:25:13
play and play more. Other sports codes, I think, have got a lot to learn from them, to be honest.
01:25:17
>> Oh, even the way they handled the pandemic as well. And yeah, played on.
01:25:21
It was um yeah, really innovative. >> And what a sacrifice the Warriors did,
01:25:24
you know, away from their families for two, three, three years. So, >> yeah. And um I'm excited. I'm going to
01:25:31
Vegas. So, as you mentioned, I'm I've just turned 50. There are nine boys from
01:25:37
Invocle uh going to Vegas for theirif for their 50th birthdays. >> So, Vegas, watch out.
01:25:47
>> Sounds like um yeah, the hangover all over again. >> Yeah, the the tigers in the room.
01:25:51
>> The benchmark is everyone who gets on the plane has to get back on at home.
01:25:56
So, uh that's the benchmark. As long as we get back on that plane, then I think
01:26:01
everyone will be everyone will be fine. >> Yeah. Ideally with a full set of teeth
01:26:04
as well. >> Yeah. No facial tattoos or >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, what about the
01:26:08
stadium in Christ Church? So, you guys are um signed a 10 year sponsorship deal with that.
01:26:13
>> Yeah. So, if we do sponsorships um we're either big or nothing, right? So, we're
01:26:18
naming rights or we're nothing. We don't like to Yeah. you go big or go home on
01:26:22
that stuff, which is why we're quite particular about uh about where we invest.
01:26:28
>> And uh like the team down there um they've done such an amazing such an amazing job. I
01:26:35
don't know if you've seen it, but it's going up. It's on time, on budget.
01:26:39
>> The design's spectacular. Uh can the C can Cantabrians love it. The South
01:26:45
Island loves it. Um, yeah, I I think increasingly when uh big acts come to New Zealand, they'll go to Oakland and
01:26:54
and and Christ Church. So, that's that's exciting. We wanted an anchor point um
01:26:58
in the South Island to demonstrate that we're just we're not an Oakland ccentric
01:27:03
brand, you know, uh we're about the mainland as uh as well. And so, we're
01:27:08
putting a lot of technology into the stadium to uh to help help enable it. And it's going to be a fantastic
01:27:14
partnership. And of course we've got partnerships with Live Nation. So we bring with the biggest artists part
01:27:21
partnerships with the One New Zealand Warriors as well. So hopefully with the sport and with the um with the music
01:27:27
acts uh you know we'll have uh all facets kind of locked up. >> Yeah, you guys do a great job. I I was
01:27:33
um in Breakfast Radio when um Vodafone came on board as a sponsor for the New Zealand Music Awards.
01:27:38
>> Yes. >> So it was sort of every year the the awards were on. It was like average
01:27:41
average. Vodafone came on board. Amazing amazing amazing. Then the sports should
01:27:45
end. Yeah. Back to average again. >> Yeah. >> So when we do it, we want to do it.
01:27:49
>> Do it. Yeah. Um, what do you want to do next? Like bigger role, smaller role or
01:27:53
like >> you're still like on the way up, you think? >> I hope so. Yeah. Um,
01:28:01
uh, it's I I just again I love New Zealand, so my preference is to continue to live and
01:28:09
work work here. Uh, I wouldn't want to move if we had to move overseas until
01:28:15
after my daughter had finished high school. So, she's 11. So, bit of a stint
01:28:20
there. Uh, I don't want to overstay my welcome at 1 New Zealand either, though,
01:28:24
you know. So, >> how do you know when the time's right? >> Yeah. I don't know. This um it's not
01:28:29
right yet, but maybe I'll just know. So, I get up every morning and I'm super
01:28:33
excited. The again, it's a fast a fast changing industry. uh generative and autonomous
01:28:41
AI is exploding and we're at the forefront of that as well. So that I'm always learning and developing. So
01:28:47
that's quite cool. I can see massive opportunities for our customers and for
01:28:51
our business in that. If um if my owners just said, "Hey JP, uh it's just status quo. Just run the
01:29:01
business. Don't change a thing. Don't touch a thing." That would definitely be
01:29:04
time to leave. I I'd get bored within about 10 seconds. They're not like that
01:29:08
though. They are super ambitious and uh and keen for us to accelerate. So that would be one. And then I suppose if
01:29:14
another big opportunity came up to do something cool that would be meaningful and impactful for New Zealand. Uh then
01:29:22
I'd have a I'd have a look I'd have a look at it. Definitely wouldn't be
01:29:25
politics. I get asked that. >> Oh, that was going to be my next thing. Was it?
01:29:28
>> Yeah. Like after I did I did wonder that. I had a thought after after watching like the career careers of um
01:29:34
Key and Luxon. No, no, no. >> No. I always every time I see >> Why would you want it? I'm pleased you
01:29:38
said that. >> Every time I see a polit politician, I uh thank them for their sacrifice.
01:29:44
>> It is >> because man like it's not just the sacrifice that you see. It's a sacrifice
01:29:50
that you don't that you don't see. you know, the scrutiny that they come under
01:29:54
at a cafe or in their social lives, the the time that they spend away from their
01:30:00
homes, the documentation they have to read, the hours they have to uh put in, the significance of the decisions that
01:30:09
they have to uh have to make. Uh I'm also not sure that I'm thick skinned
01:30:14
enough to take the you know, crap the cop the criticism that that they get. Even if you get into government, you
01:30:21
know that 50% of the country didn't vote for you. So that's quite hard, right?
01:30:25
You imagine walking not that you imagine walking through and going knowing 50% in
01:30:29
this room didn't back you. You know, it's a pretty it's a pretty hard thing
01:30:33
to get your to get your get your head around. And then you know again also family uh social media is brutal. The
01:30:41
impact on kids um yeah family all that kind of stuff. It's um and then what I've convinced myself is that if you are
01:30:51
in a business that can make positive impact at scale, you can do great things for New Zealand still even
01:30:58
if you're not necessarily in politics running a running a portfolio. And so,
01:31:03
>> you know, this this deal with um SpaceX, I think will do more for New Zealand's
01:31:10
telecommunications infrastructure that a government policy ever could. uh and we're funding it so there's no cost to
01:31:16
the taxpayer. So that's pretty amazing. Um and you know hopefully what we do
01:31:22
with autonomous a um AI will be another big thing that that New Zealand will will benefit from. So I also probably
01:31:30
don't see you know don't see the need to move into politics to make a a big
01:31:36
positive impact on on New Zealand. But you know what's next? I don't know. I
01:31:41
hope it's just within my control and that uh that I don't, you know, get that
01:31:46
tap on the shoulder going, "What are you doing here?" And I go, "Yeah, I know."
01:31:48
And then I'm off. >> The bad shoulder tap. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Also, yeah. Um Yeah.
01:31:53
Politics. I Yeah. I mean, with your skeletons in the closet, I don't know if
01:31:56
you could if you'd be the prime minister. Do you want to talk about the um >> Exactly.
01:32:00
>> the McDonald's incident at the Sevens. >> When was this? Were you at McDonald's at
01:32:05
the time or was this post >> No, >> post McDonald's. >> This may have been pre McDonald's. Um,
01:32:11
>> so how old were you like in your 20s, 30s? >> Early 20s. >> In your defense, those um hotel doors,
01:32:16
they do slam alarmingly quick, don't they? >> Yeah. So, uh, this was Wellington 7s.
01:32:23
I was we're all dressed up Mexican theme. It was the day one of two days. Uh, as people had drunk way too much and
01:32:32
needed something to soak it up so I didn't wake up with a hangover the next morning. Bought McDonald's.
01:32:39
uh for whatever reason took all my clothes off in the hotel room, was were eating my was eating my McDonald's nude,
01:32:46
and then was like, "Oh, I know I'm going to wake up feeling really rough in the
01:32:49
morning, and I'm going to feel even worse if I can smell that kind of old McDonald smell. How do I get rid of
01:32:57
this?" And so I I was like in my drunken state going, "I'll uh put the bag
01:33:04
outside my room." And then as I put the bag outside my room, I heard a click and
01:33:11
it was like 3:00 in the morning and I was like, "Oh my god, I've got a McDonald's bag and I'm new." And so then
01:33:20
I was like, "There must be uh some like kind of uh closet with towels or something in it." And so I started in my
01:33:30
drunken state trying doors, which would have been other people's hotel room doors. And I then was like, "Oh my god."
01:33:38
I went down the next floor thinking, "Well, the, you know, the the closet with the laundry might be on the next
01:33:43
floor down, trying doors on the next floor down." Until I gave up and then I
01:33:47
had to go to reception with a McDonald's bag in front of me. The door dings open.
01:33:54
Unfortunately, there's like 10 people in reception, even at 3:00 in the morning,
01:33:58
plus reception staff. And the beauty of it is the guy just looked up from reception and said, "What room?"
01:34:07
>> He'd seen it before >> every weekend. >> He's like, "What room?" I said, "My
01:34:11
room." He grabbed and he unfortunately had to come up with me cuz I had to describe what was in my room to cuz I
01:34:17
didn't have ID clearly. And uh describing the room and the elevator was a mirrored one. So there was nohere to
01:34:28
hide my body from him. And I remember the music the lift elevator was like and I was just like, "Oh my god." Sobered me
01:34:37
up real sobered me up real quick. So uh yeah, there there are a few stories uh like that which as you've said, I'm
01:34:48
pretty glad that uh yeah, social media wasn't as prevalent when I was young and
01:34:53
people hadn't haven't got any photos luckily. So, um, Vegas next year. Um,
01:34:57
undies to bed each night. >> Yeah. Undies to bed. And that's that's
01:35:02
my benchmark. That's my benchmark. Do not get locked out of my hotel room naked.
01:35:06
>> Yeah. Oh, that's great. It's a great story. I I've had >> unfortunately a true one.
01:35:10
>> Yeah. >> Have you had a similar situation? >> Similar similar thing. Yeah. Sim similar
01:35:13
thing. And yeah, undies ever since. But those doors, it's like what? How did
01:35:17
they shut so quickly? >> I know. Exactly. And I'll never forget that sound of the click. Uh, and I'll
01:35:22
never forget. But as I said, you know that what room? It's clearly something
01:35:26
that happens regularly, you know, >> every damn weekend. >> Every hotel room.
01:35:30
>> Every damn weekend. Um couple of finish with any any regrets? >> Any regrets?
01:35:41
>> Uh yeah, there's a like when I was a teenager, you know, I mentioned before,
01:35:47
you know, you're too cool for school. I remember um being a 16-year-old in one
01:35:52
moment being a little bit disrespectful to my grandmother. It was only once, but
01:35:57
I remember her telling me off and I remember like, you know, I'm now 15 and it was when I was 16. So any moment like
01:36:05
that where um I felt that I was disrespectful no matter what age or not as caring or didn't rep represent myself
01:36:17
uh in the way that I would like to. That's probably my biggest my biggest regret.
01:36:22
>> It's it's all those human moments more than anything else. Nothing really
01:36:25
workrelated, you know, like the jokes about the um the tra the the placemat reprints, all that kind of stuff, you
01:36:32
know. isn't it? >> But in the scheme of things, it's >> it's any moment where I um I hurt I hurt
01:36:39
someone. >> That's the stuff that uh I'd regret. >> I reckon that says a lot about your
01:36:43
character that you know. Three and a half decades later, you're still Yeah. That's the first thing that comes to
01:36:48
mind. >> It is. And I I remember I can remember that. I can remember that feeling of
01:36:51
letting down my grandmother now. >> Yeah. >> Are you proud of yourself?
01:36:58
>> Yeah, I think I am. Like I I know I'm a good person like Steve Hansen. Um,
01:37:03
one of my favorite quotes of his is, "The mirror never lies." >> And so, like, I know I'm not perfect by
01:37:11
any stretch, but I know that I try and be the best that I can be, and I try not to beat myself up when I let myself uh
01:37:19
let myself down. So, um, yeah, I'm proud. Um the thing I'm probably most
01:37:25
proud of is my children and feel like um I had a part to play in uh bringing them up with with good
01:37:33
values and and being and being good good kids. I'm proud of the relationships
01:37:38
that I've got. I'm proud I'm a good friend. uh and you know um hopefully the
01:37:43
people that I've had the opportunity to work with or be friends with or or talk
01:37:48
to um have found it a you know a positive engagement and um yeah so I'm proud of the I'm proud again probably
01:37:56
the proud of the human stuff as much as anything. >> Well Jason Paris this has been a lot of
01:38:01
fun today. It's been great. You're a unique CEO and it's been um fantastic to
01:38:05
sit down with you and pick your brains. >> Yeah, thank you. I uh yeah thanks for
01:38:09
having me. um really really enjoyed it and as always these type of conversations
01:38:13
uh you learn as much you know through the conversation uh when you're talking
01:38:18
about stuff is uh as you think you're trying to help others with as well. So
01:38:22
feels like a you know thank you for having me on uh um every time I get a kind of request from someone who I see
01:38:29
as a famous New Zealander I kind of like yourself I go what me you know so um but
01:38:35
surreal bit surreal being here but uh thanks for the opportunity. Yeah. Well, no, it's been great. I feel feel bad now
01:38:40
for stitching you up and getting you to tell the McDonald's story. It was it was
01:38:43
lowhanging fruit and I didn't need to go there. No, you're a great you're a great
01:38:47
New Zealander and um yeah, thank you so much for being on the podcast. >> No, thanks for your time.