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NZ Cricketer turned Mountaineer, Adam Parore || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey

March 19, 2023 / 01:27:41

This episode features former New Zealand cricketer Adam Perori discussing his career, running, and personal life. Key topics include his cricket achievements, love for running, and experiences climbing Mount Everest.

Adam Perori, the first Maori cricketer to represent New Zealand, shares insights about his cricket career, including his record for the highest ODI innings without a boundary and his retirement at 31. He reflects on his time in the sport and the pressures that come with it.

Running is a significant part of Adam's life, as he discusses his training routines and how he incorporates running into his fitness regimen. He reminisces about his past running achievements and how they have evolved over time.

Adam also recounts his experience climbing Mount Everest in 2011, detailing the challenges and risks involved in high-altitude climbing. He shares personal reflections on the emotional and physical demands of such an endeavor.

Throughout the episode, Adam touches on his relationships, including his past marriages and the importance of family. He emphasizes personal growth, mental health, and the lessons learned from his life experiences.

TL;DR

Adam Perori discusses his cricket career, love for running, and experiences climbing Mount Everest, reflecting on personal growth and relationships.

Episode

1:27:41

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hey Runners only with dime Harley

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Runners only with dom Harvey and the

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relatively reclusive and embroidery

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g'day mate Dom how are you fantastic

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thank you so much for coming over

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um this was organized through your

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girlfriend Libby um you you're a shocker

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on social media so I'll DM you and then

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a week later you'll get back to me and

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yeah but she made this happen overnight

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yeah she did well about 10 minutes

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actually yeah phenomenal yeah you're

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under the thumb I don't spend a lot of

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time on the uh on the socials an

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infrequent visitor yeah well I

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appreciate you being here Adam Brewery

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first ever Maori to represent New

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Zealand in cricket retired with 204 test

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dismissals which I believe is still a

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New Zealand record uh no I think I think

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BJ Watling snuck past me a few years ago

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I think I'm not 100 sure I don't follow

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that stuff that closely another record

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that still stands highest one day

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international Innings without scoring a

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boundary that was 96 runs against India

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and that'll never be broken nobody could

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play that badly for that long that

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represents a lot of running which is

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good we'll get to that it's a running

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theme podcast

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um also the only test cricketer to ever

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reach the summit of Mount Everest

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yeah that might um yeah I'll be curious

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to see if any other cricketer decides

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that that's a good idea probably not so

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so what is what is your relationship

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with running we mentioned before that 96

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um in 1994 against India which was made

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up of singles and twos and maybe a three

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uh threes might have been a few but

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there's a lot of ones and twos yeah um

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yes I I love running and still do but

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I'm a bit limited these days

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um but that was always the base of my

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cardio I used to run when I was playing

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I would run uh 10ks six days a week and

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about 34 to 36 minutes I think 33 23 was

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my best

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um is that right this isn't the case

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this isn't the case anymore this isn't

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the case of the older I get the better

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jet time yeah that was it that is heaven

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yeah yeah that was flat stick

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um now I can run about uh six K's and I

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do that

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three times a week and that's probably

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about my limit my I tend to pull calf

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muscles if I do if I load it too much

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what's the difference I love it what

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sort of pace now just like four minute

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four minute case at my best four and a

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half's comfortable

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um and you've probably seen me I've got

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a little bit of a circuit past your

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place actually yeah it's a great place

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um that's incredible Pace your 50 52 now

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and can't quite shift like I used to but

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it feels like I'm still going the same

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speed you could still do a sub 25.

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possibly yeah yeah oh how good but I

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enjoy it I like it um well for the

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physical health benefits or the mental

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health benefits and also I like the way

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it feels um I walk most days so I'll do

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uh at least an hour of walking

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um and then probably 45 minutes in the

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gym and then uh if I'm if I'm triple

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crowning I call it I'll then do the 6K

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run on top which I did last night

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um and sometimes I break it and I'll

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walk in gym in the morning and then in

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the afternoon I'll go out for a run for

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you know 30 odd minutes yeah I mean

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physically you're looking and you're

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looking in Great Neck you really are

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probably in better shape now than when I

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played professional sport or close to it

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is that so yeah yeah yeah there's a

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thing like 20 years since you played

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professional as well yeah

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um well I don't have to play anymore so

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I got plenty of time to train yeah right

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and I I heard rumors about you when you

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were playing you you'd often um like

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play a game and then run home yes yeah

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yeah but not for New Zealand though this

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must have been lower levels not enough

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in New Zealand

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um back to the hotel I went for a run

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where I think it was a 1999 test match

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against the West Indies at the basement

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Reserve in Wellington and we we'd field

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it for a very long time

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um and I think there was a couple of

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hours to go it was just after tea I

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think and a beautiful day in Wellington

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and I've been Fielding for a day and a

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bit and I thought I'd just go out for I

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didn't think I'd be batting that day so

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I thought I'd just go out for a bit of a

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run just to loosen up a little bit and

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just clear my head and I went out around

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the base at Oriental Bay and I had my

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little radio on so I could listen to the

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cricket

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um and guess what happened

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I got I got sort of four or five k's

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from the Basin I think I was still my

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normal sort of 10ks and then all of a

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sudden three or four wickets fell I was

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three K's from the Basin and next in

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um oh my God you must have been shedding

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yourself did you get a taxi or I was I

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honked it back and managed to get in

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there scrambled Into The Dressing Room

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everybody was freaking out as to where I

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was obviously who was the coach then 99

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that must have been Steve Rickson right

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um did you get in trouble afterwards

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well no not really but um

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yeah but and then I was batting like 10

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minutes after I got my gear on I was

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still sweating and then somebody got out

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and I'm batting right literally 10

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minutes later

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um how was it how were you even allowed

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to leave the ground I wasn't allowed

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after that right right

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that was the end of that but it's not

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like I was going for a beer right I was

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going out for a job yeah yeah yeah well

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um oh that's incredible uh yeah I I

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found this book in my bookshelf

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yesterday I haven't seen that for a few

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years this is called

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um uh the great Little Cricket signature

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book uh I think this is like 30 years

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old this is um this is just when you

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were beginning to play for new just just

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about to overtake Ian Smith as the the

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Wicket keeper for New Zealand early 90s

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so I thought what we could do right now

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um yeah when was the last time have you

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got a copy of this at home at all no no

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I signed a lot of those back in the day

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but I wouldn't have seen a copy of that

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for 20 years when you see that photo of

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um a young Adam a young fellow yeah yeah

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then you feel at the same time same

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person I'm guessing physically you feel

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the same but uh do you know what Dom

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it's like that was like a different life

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it really was like a different life yeah

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um uh occasionally pick up my

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autobiography and sort of read a page or

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two out of that which is quite

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embarrassing

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um actually Libby my partner just

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emailed me this morning and said have

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you got a copy of this lying around

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because she's been badgering me about

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reading it for a couple of weeks and

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I've just sort of ignored it hoping that

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would go away but she bought a copy of

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it so that's embarrassing um yeah

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amazing uh but yeah it's literally like

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a different life yeah well it is I mean

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it's yeah 30 years ago 30 years ago so

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you're a young guy there at the start of

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your career so I thought what we could

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do right now I'll put the questions to

00:06:16

you and we'll see what your answer is

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now in comparison to your answer 30

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years ago how does that sound you know

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so this would be fun this will be

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interesting what's your nickname AP

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oh yeah it was Maverick back then yeah

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yeah my Cricket mates and my old friend

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still call me mayor Top Gun reference or

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yeah yeah Martin Crowe gave me that um

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yeah yeah so that was that was Crowe's

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nickname but now everyone just calls me

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AP yeah what's your favorite food

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uh probably fish and steak no longer my

00:06:45

girlfriend's Kate my girlfriend Kate's

00:06:46

pasta salad I haven't even passed her

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for a long time are you still you're

00:06:50

still friends with Kate you still know

00:06:52

Kate uh haven't seen her for a few years

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but occasionally bump into her yeah

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um my favorite music is

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I listened to a lot of house music

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um

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yeah I've got various DJs who I like

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yeah right can you remember who it was

00:07:09

back then for a young area it would have

00:07:10

been the cars or something like that I

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would imagine yeah because Queen Brian

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Adams Cat Stevens yeah

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um my ambition in life is what's your

00:07:19

impression in life now

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um

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yeah that's an interesting question I

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kind of feel like I've sort of done a

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lot of that I think um you have done a

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lot probably just to be happy

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um I have ambition for my family

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um and our kids yeah kids and um you

00:07:38

know and close friends I have some

00:07:40

ambition for them and I enjoy

00:07:42

celebrating their success less so for me

00:07:44

now

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um but I do enjoy seeing particularly

00:07:47

the kids right when they're successful I

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enjoy that a lot I I know that I know

00:07:51

that's a genuine answer but

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um I still reckon there's a lot for you

00:07:55

to do and you'll still keep chasing

00:07:57

those ridiculous goals like climbing

00:07:59

Everest maybe not as Extreme as that but

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yeah I sort of um starting to get to the

00:08:03

point now where I did I did Harbor uh

00:08:07

thoughts of a second crack at K2

00:08:10

um but I think now that's probably

00:08:12

that's sort of probably been put to bed

00:08:14

once and for all

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um but the risk involved or just the

00:08:18

timings right you know it's a 10-week

00:08:20

Expedition the risk doesn't worry me so

00:08:22

much because I know to manage that

00:08:24

sensibly

00:08:25

but it's just a big commitment

00:08:27

emotionally and physically and and sort

00:08:30

of at that stage of my life where I

00:08:31

can't disappear yeah for 10 weeks yeah

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um just too selfish and you're too busy

00:08:35

just doesn't really work with with the

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structure of my life at the moment to be

00:08:39

honest yeah so your ambition in life

00:08:41

back then can you remember what it would

00:08:43

have been no idea to beat Hogan's Father

00:08:45

Goose that goose is that Hogan that's um

00:08:48

yeah yeah did you ever beat it as Dad at

00:08:51

tennis no no and that that Loops back to

00:08:53

a story in France uh where we played on

00:08:56

Craig on Clay um Goose must have been 60

00:08:59

I was 19 and he ran me around and

00:09:02

humiliated me and my

00:09:04

um my response to being beaten was sort

00:09:07

of um yeah was not quite what it could

00:09:09

have been

00:09:10

yeah ass kicked by an elderly man yeah I

00:09:13

did um

00:09:15

I got a lesson um back then your other

00:09:18

ambition in life was to go on tour where

00:09:20

my phone bill cost less than a thousand

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dollars which I ages this somewhat I

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mean a thousand dollars back then would

00:09:25

have been considerable now with like

00:09:27

International roaming you can get like

00:09:28

five bucks a day in most places yeah

00:09:30

um another one was to be married with

00:09:32

Children and you've done that a couple

00:09:33

of times done that a few times now A few

00:09:35

a few times

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I have more there yeah you take most of

00:09:39

them off

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um my interest include what are your

00:09:42

interest now mountain climbing obviously

00:09:43

yeah mountaineering uh I spent a lot of

00:09:46

time on the businesses obviously

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um do a lot of hiking

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um

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um what else do I do Fitness Sports uh

00:09:55

you know to try to live pretty healthily

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um so I'm quite into Health Fitness

00:10:00

Wellness all that sort of stuff um spend

00:10:02

a lot of time on that yeah back then it

00:10:04

was a tennis rugby baseball touch on

00:10:06

Sunday mornings with the lads because

00:10:07

you have to run off a hangover

00:10:09

still have to do that occasionally

00:10:12

sleeping in days on the beach getting

00:10:14

crazy with Jamie Hall who's Jamie Hall

00:10:17

uh one of my old Cricket buddies from

00:10:19

from England right

00:10:20

um yeah no the good Summers they were

00:10:23

good Summers yeah is this how does this

00:10:25

feel here are your toes killing are

00:10:27

these good memories no there's good

00:10:28

memories yeah good memories um the best

00:10:29

piece of clothing I've ever owned is

00:10:32

well I'm pretty habitual to be honest

00:10:35

um back then I'm wondering probably

00:10:37

would have been Timberland boots or

00:10:39

something like that I suspect now it's

00:10:42

um more suits and um suits and trainers

00:10:44

probably no back then it was an old blue

00:10:46

jersey I pinched from Kate

00:10:48

I actually remember that yeah is that

00:10:50

the one in the photo or no no no no no

00:10:52

no it was a bit older than that but I

00:10:53

don't remember it

00:10:54

um I would hate to be without

00:10:56

what would it be now for Adam peroy uh

00:10:58

probably kids and family and friends to

00:11:00

be honest

00:11:01

um who are pretty close group of friends

00:11:02

particularly

00:11:04

um that have built up over 30 years and

00:11:06

those guys have been with me the whole

00:11:08

way

00:11:09

um and obviously family is pretty

00:11:11

important now yeah yeah I'd agree with

00:11:14

that being um almost the same same age

00:11:16

as you I think um yeah the friends and

00:11:18

the connections you have when you when

00:11:20

you hit 50 it's a reflection of the life

00:11:22

you've had up to that point yeah I think

00:11:24

so and I think um certainly in my case

00:11:26

those guys have been with me through all

00:11:28

of the good stuff and the bad and um

00:11:31

yeah I would hate to think that they

00:11:34

weren't around anymore yeah

00:11:36

um back then um I'd hate to be without

00:11:37

my Game Boy

00:11:40

Kate a sense of humor and my green jeans

00:11:43

okay Shrek along with the green jeans

00:11:46

well I remember rightly that was sort of

00:11:49

it was a colored Jean period there were

00:11:51

Red Green

00:11:53

I don't know if I was ambitious enough

00:11:54

to try white but there was all sorts of

00:11:56

colors yeah

00:11:57

um she dates that considerably there's

00:11:59

an answer here which um you you you

00:12:02

would never dream of saying now you'd be

00:12:04

canceled for this

00:12:06

um if I wasn't me I would like to be no

00:12:09

idea who would have been for Adam

00:12:11

Ferrari now though is it if you learned

00:12:13

yourself

00:12:14

yeah that's a funny question because I

00:12:16

kind of quite like being yeah that's

00:12:18

cool that's a good leave it there that's

00:12:19

a great answer yeah back then

00:12:21

um if it wasn't me I'd like to be a flow

00:12:23

on the wall and Elle macpherson's

00:12:24

bathroom

00:12:27

well it certainly dates it doesn't it

00:12:29

yeah uh the worst job I ever had was

00:12:32

what would it be now

00:12:34

uh fool what do I used to do I painted

00:12:37

fences in the seven form

00:12:38

um for a living that was pretty brutal

00:12:41

um a little bit from where from your

00:12:42

perspective now as a 52 year old man

00:12:44

worst job ever

00:12:45

um

00:12:47

yeah tough question actually

00:12:49

um

00:12:50

I kind of quite like working yeah um and

00:12:53

I think the work ethic that I was taught

00:12:54

in the cricket side particularly has

00:12:57

been a real asset you know like

00:12:59

the more so that the culture in that

00:13:01

team was the more senior you got the

00:13:03

more you sort of pitched in and helped

00:13:04

out yeah

00:13:05

um and so I learned to do all the [ __ ]

00:13:07

jobs you know at the end of you know I

00:13:09

think I'd played three 400 games by the

00:13:11

end of my career I was still picking up

00:13:12

cones at the end of practice yeah

00:13:14

um and that I think that work ethic and

00:13:16

that culture sort of stayed with me so I

00:13:18

typically you know I'd clean up the

00:13:21

dishes I'd do all that stuff right um

00:13:23

yes so yeah because I read a book um

00:13:26

recently called Legacy which is about

00:13:28

the uh the All Blacks and they they talk

00:13:30

about that in this book and what makes

00:13:32

the all black so successful and there's

00:13:33

a thing like no [ __ ] policy and

00:13:35

yeah there's even the most senior

00:13:36

players will sweep the sheds afterwards

00:13:37

so the black caps have been doing that

00:13:39

for decades decades yeah and that was

00:13:42

one of the things Steve richkin Steve

00:13:43

Rickson and John Graham introduced and

00:13:45

it really stuck with me even now in the

00:13:46

businesses I never ask anybody

00:13:49

um to do anything that I wouldn't do

00:13:50

myself because I think in terms of

00:13:52

leadership you know it's quite a good

00:13:54

way to connect with people um if they

00:13:56

see you on the tools all of a sudden

00:13:58

there's a there's a common Bond so yeah

00:14:00

I do all the [ __ ] jobs mate yeah oh

00:14:02

that's good well back then uh the worst

00:14:04

job you've had was um a hero or a paper

00:14:06

run when you were nine which you were

00:14:07

fired for for being late yeah yeah that

00:14:09

was brutal it was sort of 5 30 a.m

00:14:11

starts not great for a for 11 bucks a

00:14:14

week or whatever it was 11.40 I used to

00:14:16

get I did 108 papers

00:14:19

um your earliest memory

00:14:20

what's the earliest thing you can

00:14:22

remember now

00:14:23

um

00:14:26

I remember

00:14:27

um

00:14:28

first day of school so as a

00:14:30

five-year-old

00:14:31

um you remember that pretty vividly

00:14:34

um we were living out in pakuranga they

00:14:35

went to a primary school called

00:14:37

wakaranga and farm Cove so yeah I

00:14:38

remember getting myself to school first

00:14:40

day terrified so it's probably the

00:14:42

earliest I think it's funny it's such a

00:14:45

vivid memory yeah yeah back then you

00:14:47

said um running around Stark naked

00:14:49

covered in finger paint wearing a blue

00:14:50

cape and pretending to be Superman oh

00:14:52

yeah I was 17. just kidding I was three

00:14:55

yeah that was when we lived in Australia

00:14:58

yeah I do remember that too actually and

00:15:00

uh my most embarrassing moment was what

00:15:02

would it be oh [ __ ] there's been a few

00:15:05

um they're quite difficult to pinpoint

00:15:07

um

00:15:08

I think like with a bit of maturity you

00:15:10

look back at all sorts of different

00:15:11

occasions where you've just made a bit

00:15:13

of a tit of yourself

00:15:14

um so it's hard to pick out one but this

00:15:16

number yeah

00:15:18

um the sports stuff didn't I don't

00:15:21

really find that embarrassing I think

00:15:22

more your own sort of the way you've

00:15:24

behaved personally

00:15:26

um I find it every now and then when

00:15:28

this is pretty embarrassing yeah sorry

00:15:31

and you have a bit of a window into how

00:15:34

immature you were um at a time when you

00:15:37

thought you were quite mature that

00:15:39

although it's pretty embarrassing mate

00:15:40

well I think that's the exciting thing

00:15:42

about life though I've sort of realized

00:15:44

the older I get the less I actually know

00:15:45

about [ __ ] and the more you're learning

00:15:47

and the more you're evolving and the

00:15:48

more you're changing and I think in

00:15:49

terms of growing up you know like um you

00:15:51

know as a young man you get to sort of

00:15:53

18 or 20 and you think you're all done

00:15:54

right which is just like looking back at

00:15:57

that it's just it's ridiculous

00:15:59

um oh yeah when I was that age I I would

00:16:01

think being 50 is not worth living

00:16:03

anymore well you know I was sort of I

00:16:05

couldn't imagine myself there

00:16:07

um didn't think I was going to be

00:16:09

anything like this but I think you know

00:16:10

a little bit of and I've been

00:16:11

embarrassed humiliated all that stuff

00:16:14

and on some of the biggest stages in the

00:16:16

world right and I think that's good for

00:16:18

on terms of like cricket and growing in

00:16:20

terms of growing you up right

00:16:22

um you need all that stuff to turn into

00:16:24

a man

00:16:25

um which is not something you think

00:16:27

about when you're 18 right you just

00:16:28

think it's all going to be pretty

00:16:30

straightforward yeah it doesn't work

00:16:31

like that I I agree I I I

00:16:35

um I used to I still do but it's

00:16:37

something I try and find I used to have

00:16:38

this um terrible fear of failure to the

00:16:40

point where I wouldn't do things if

00:16:42

there's a chance of fail and I've missed

00:16:43

out on so many opportunities in life for

00:16:45

that I suppose Cricket's one of those

00:16:46

Sports where yeah you're out there and

00:16:49

the chance to be embarrassed or

00:16:50

humiliated or fail is so high well you

00:16:53

fail most days right yeah get used to it

00:16:55

yeah who you are

00:16:57

um

00:16:57

particularly with the Wicket keeping

00:16:59

with my standards were but what my

00:17:01

standard was Perfection right

00:17:03

um that was it I did it half a dozen

00:17:05

times I think and Perfection to me was

00:17:07

the perfect day which started in the

00:17:10

morning when I woke up so I would brush

00:17:12

my teeth perfectly when I got on the

00:17:14

lift I would push the button perfectly

00:17:16

how do you how do you how do you push

00:17:17

the button not perfectly straight in the

00:17:19

middle right like actually and I and I

00:17:22

was very focused on you know even when I

00:17:24

was warming up I'd make sure that I did

00:17:26

it as close to perfect as I could and

00:17:28

then for me a clean sheet as we used to

00:17:30

call it was literally to catch every

00:17:32

ball which is impossible right all

00:17:34

somebody has to do is just throw on five

00:17:35

feet over your head and you can't

00:17:37

achieve it so you need when you need

00:17:39

perfect execution and then also you need

00:17:41

luck

00:17:42

and I think I did that in four or five

00:17:45

occasions maybe over the course of my

00:17:47

career

00:17:48

um and that was always and the guys knew

00:17:50

so flim standing next first slip knew

00:17:52

Nathan new

00:17:55

um I remember one day it didn't park we

00:17:57

were four or five balls from the end of

00:17:58

the day and I was on a clean sheet which

00:18:00

was unheard of right

00:18:02

and and as as open to your own perfect

00:18:05

execution as it is to chance and then

00:18:08

one sort of rolled along the ground and

00:18:10

bounced up hit me on my shoulder and

00:18:12

popped off to Flynn and I was my heart

00:18:14

sank and um nobody knew except the guys

00:18:17

next to me and they were as heartbroken

00:18:19

as I was right they were like come on

00:18:21

man keep going keep going

00:18:22

and I think that's you know that's the

00:18:25

the quest doesn't it The elusive quest

00:18:27

for Perfection yeah you're chasing it

00:18:30

like a near impossible thing but is that

00:18:32

is that part of what made you so good I

00:18:34

think so yeah yeah

00:18:36

nothing was ever good enough right I

00:18:39

remember in my in my Cricket career

00:18:40

particularly every single day I would be

00:18:43

disappointed

00:18:45

um because the mistakes that I made I

00:18:48

knew that you know that I was that I

00:18:50

didn't that I was actually good enough

00:18:52

not to make any mistakes it's an

00:18:53

exhorting way to live your life though

00:18:55

exhausting way to spend your career

00:18:56

mentally it was just so draining right

00:18:58

so you you'd wake up in the morning of a

00:19:00

game and would you be excited or would

00:19:02

you be anxious how would you feel or

00:19:04

just super focused uh depends on the

00:19:06

state of mind if I was if I if I'd had a

00:19:08

poor day the day before all I want to do

00:19:10

is get back out on the field and erase

00:19:11

it and until I did that I was mentally

00:19:14

sort of feeling quite out of sorts and

00:19:17

typically not in a great place

00:19:19

um and that mental challenge is enormous

00:19:23

um even now I play in the black Clash

00:19:25

once a year and I'm still the same like

00:19:28

the level of anxiety while I'm

00:19:29

performing

00:19:30

um is that right exactly the same let's

00:19:32

see that's the hot spring spa thing it

00:19:34

was on um it's on January each year so

00:19:36

it's a bunch of old cricketers and uh

00:19:38

old rugby players playing each other it

00:19:40

looks like it looks like a fun thing

00:19:41

it's a great day everyone does take it

00:19:42

kind of seriously though right everyone

00:19:44

takes it very seriously

00:19:46

um and the standards certainly for me

00:19:48

exactly the same right still expect

00:19:49

Perfection well

00:19:52

yes I was going to ask you because um so

00:19:54

you're growing up you're a young fella

00:19:56

um you play softball you're quite good

00:19:57

at that yeah and then you switch to

00:19:59

switch to Cricket and you're you're a

00:20:01

[ __ ] natural you're playing for

00:20:02

Auckland at the age of 17 New Zealand at

00:20:04

the age of 19. I was going to ask how

00:20:06

much of it is natural talent because

00:20:07

obviously there's some of that there but

00:20:08

obviously you worked bloody hard as well

00:20:10

yep yeah no there was a lot of work but

00:20:12

the particularly the Wicker keeping that

00:20:14

was quite

00:20:15

I wouldn't say easy but it was net it's

00:20:18

natural okay

00:20:19

um which is why I can sort of still do

00:20:21

it much the same now

00:20:23

um for small bursts right like I I

00:20:26

probably couldn't keep Wicket in a test

00:20:28

match if I you know like keeping for two

00:20:31

days in a row yeah

00:20:33

squatting down for that long is a 52

00:20:35

year yeah

00:20:37

2020 game it looks kind of the same as

00:20:39

it always did right yeah yeah

00:20:41

um and so that's that's fun to be able

00:20:43

to do that but the physical limitations

00:20:45

are just different right yeah I couldn't

00:20:46

play for five out of seven years for

00:20:48

four weeks like the guys do

00:20:50

um but it still feels exactly the same

00:20:52

literally it's quite natural and I've

00:20:55

spent you know tens and tens of

00:20:57

thousands of hours perfecting my craft

00:21:00

basically

00:21:01

um and that miraculously that doesn't go

00:21:03

away I remember when I played in the

00:21:04

first black Clash game I literally

00:21:07

hadn't had gloves on for almost 20 years

00:21:10

like from the time I walked off the

00:21:11

field in park in 2003 or whenever I

00:21:14

retired to when I got to the game I

00:21:16

hadn't kept working in between

00:21:18

um I hadn't practiced I just put them on

00:21:20

and it was exactly the same I went well

00:21:22

that that's good just muscle memory yeah

00:21:24

yeah yeah exactly there must have been a

00:21:26

little bit of rust there in the

00:21:27

beginning not much

00:21:29

wow yeah not much

00:21:31

um

00:21:32

so and that was I think that's the

00:21:35

culmination of literally tens of

00:21:37

thousands of hours yeah of learning your

00:21:40

Craft

00:21:41

um and also it took a while to perfect

00:21:43

it right it was you know I played

00:21:46

international cricket at 19. it wasn't

00:21:48

until I was probably 28 I think that I'd

00:21:51

sort of finally perfected my craft yet I

00:21:54

thought at 19 I was pretty new

00:21:56

everything done right well it was

00:21:57

definitely good enough to go and play

00:21:59

Tess cricket and look like I belonged

00:22:01

but I was still a long way from where I

00:22:04

ended up

00:22:05

um

00:22:06

yeah so you yeah you see you you became

00:22:09

a New Zealand player at the age of 19.

00:22:11

um taking over from Ian Smith who I'm

00:22:13

guessing as a young fellow growing up

00:22:14

was all you knew in terms of the New

00:22:16

Zealand Wicket keeper because he held

00:22:17

that position for such a long time did

00:22:19

you um were you in awe of him or did you

00:22:21

have this youthful arrogance where you

00:22:23

you know he'd coached me since I was 12

00:22:25

years old right so we were mates right

00:22:27

um and he was very much sort of a mentor

00:22:31

to me and and showed me the ropes

00:22:33

promoted me

00:22:35

um answered a great relationship with

00:22:37

Smithy

00:22:38

um you know he was very very good to me

00:22:40

very very good to me yeah well that's

00:22:42

cool

00:22:43

so you know he retired in um 2002 when

00:22:46

you were 31

00:22:48

um last innings was um opening batsman

00:22:50

with Mark Richardson do you like in

00:22:52

hindsight do you regret retiring then

00:22:53

like you still had a lot to give

00:22:54

Danielle or did you feel like you've

00:22:55

done it all or why did why did you

00:22:57

retire at 31

00:22:58

I just got to that point where I played

00:23:00

for 12 years by that stage I think

00:23:03

um I'd achieved everything that I wanted

00:23:04

to

00:23:05

um and also I was very conscious the

00:23:07

fact that I wanted to move on and do

00:23:09

other things like I never thought that

00:23:10

cricket was going to be my life

00:23:12

um I thought it was always going to be a

00:23:14

really important part of my life but was

00:23:16

never going to be my life and I was just

00:23:18

at that stage where got to the point

00:23:21

where I was

00:23:22

accumulated a fair bit of baggage I

00:23:24

think and it was starting to feel quite

00:23:25

heavy what sort of baggage just being

00:23:28

around just traveling and touring for a

00:23:30

long time I'd literally done everything

00:23:32

in the game

00:23:33

um I think probably the only thing that

00:23:35

was left was to beat Australia in a test

00:23:37

match and that that ambition remains to

00:23:40

this day that never happened for me

00:23:42

um

00:23:44

and I think that's probably the only

00:23:46

thing that I didn't achieve outside of

00:23:48

you know maybe winning a World Cup or

00:23:49

something which was a bit of a stretch

00:23:52

goal back then I think we made the semis

00:23:54

pretty consistently but we probably

00:23:55

weren't quite good enough to get there

00:23:57

um

00:23:58

that was kind of the only things that

00:24:00

sort of eluded me to be honest the rest

00:24:01

of it I'd sort of done and I want to go

00:24:04

on and do different things at that stage

00:24:07

um you know having a family and having a

00:24:08

normal life was quite appealing because

00:24:10

I'd never done that yeah of course and I

00:24:12

was in that sort of no man's land where

00:24:13

I sort of like well either I get out now

00:24:15

and then you know I I'm gonna have to

00:24:18

start a career in business whatever I

00:24:20

choose to do at the bottom again I have

00:24:22

to go pick up cones again that's how it

00:24:24

works

00:24:25

uh and if I don't do it now you know by

00:24:28

the time I'm then I'm sort of stuck here

00:24:30

for another five years

00:24:32

do I really want to do that and sort of

00:24:34

limiting my options in terms of being in

00:24:35

a proper relationship and family and all

00:24:37

that stuff although it was a difficult

00:24:38

decision it took me a few years to get

00:24:40

my head around yeah it wasn't easy and I

00:24:42

I went early and I've never regretted it

00:24:45

because what was what was the money like

00:24:47

through your 20s as a cricketer was

00:24:48

there any money in the game or yeah I

00:24:50

made I was making sort of 200 to 250 I

00:24:54

think

00:24:54

um right through there which back then

00:24:57

was a lot of money 200 250k yeah right

00:25:00

okay

00:25:01

a sportsman back then yeah

00:25:04

but I spent it all um

00:25:06

it just goes I don't know where it goes

00:25:09

I had a really nice life

00:25:12

but I certainly didn't retire from

00:25:14

cricket and then I certainly wasn't

00:25:16

wealthy right yeah yeah and that was the

00:25:19

other thing I was sort of like well I

00:25:20

wouldn't mind having some money one day

00:25:21

and I'm probably not going to get there

00:25:22

doing this

00:25:24

um

00:25:25

so it was a culmination of lots of

00:25:26

different things it took me a long time

00:25:27

to get my head around it it was a

00:25:29

difficult decision but one I've never

00:25:30

regretted but you um I mean you weren't

00:25:33

an idiot though like you had a law

00:25:34

degree you you studied for a law degree

00:25:36

while you're yeah I did two degrees I

00:25:37

did finance and law so in county and

00:25:39

finance first and then I did I did my

00:25:41

law degree on the road with the cricket

00:25:42

team right

00:25:44

um so yeah so you say you you know you

00:25:45

had to start at the bottom of any career

00:25:47

pick out cones but I mean you were you

00:25:48

were well educated what you're in a good

00:25:50

position but I was right you know I went

00:25:52

to um I went to JB wear Goldman Sachs

00:25:55

here in Auckland

00:25:56

um out of cricket and started off in the

00:25:59

Private Client team

00:26:01

um working for a guy called John Cobb um

00:26:03

and I literally made coffee mate

00:26:06

um you know I would start it at the

00:26:07

bottom I managed to survive two

00:26:10

restructurings at Goldman's but I knew I

00:26:13

wasn't going to get through a third one

00:26:15

but if you're making a good coffee and

00:26:17

you're being paid so little they're

00:26:18

probably like oh we didn't hear them on

00:26:21

um there must be um that must be

00:26:23

humbling hey like coming from of us

00:26:25

being on a pedestal on you know the

00:26:28

world cricket stage and starting at the

00:26:29

bottom somewhere else at that age yeah

00:26:31

and again I thought you know that was

00:26:32

part of the ethos that was instilled Us

00:26:34

in the cricket side and it was promoted

00:26:36

strongly by John Graham particularly was

00:26:38

you know you've got a you know you might

00:26:41

be the best in the world but at midnight

00:26:43

the clock resets and you get up the next

00:26:45

day and you want to be the best in the

00:26:46

world again that's no problem you go do

00:26:48

it again yeah and you've got to do it

00:26:49

every day you know your reputation

00:26:51

counts for nothing you've got to get up

00:26:53

every day and do it again and everybody

00:26:54

everybody starts from zero every morning

00:26:56

and I think that taught us a really

00:26:59

strong work ethic and a sense of

00:27:01

humility that you know we were young

00:27:04

guys right in our 20s and we had Egos

00:27:06

and and I had plenty make no mistake

00:27:08

about that

00:27:09

um

00:27:10

my sort of I was trying to think about

00:27:12

it yesterday when I was writing these

00:27:13

questions and I suppose you were sort of

00:27:15

like the Carlos Spencer of cricket but

00:27:17

you you just had a very flattering

00:27:18

comparison

00:27:19

that you were just a precocious talent

00:27:22

and you were good looking and young and

00:27:24

you had this sort of arrogance about you

00:27:26

yeah

00:27:27

um yeah I mean I look back on it now and

00:27:29

it's it's just embarrassing right um but

00:27:32

yeah I think it is you know the wrong

00:27:34

way but you were very good uh well I Had

00:27:36

My Moments certainly

00:27:38

um but I think I look back at the way

00:27:39

that I behaved on numerous occasions

00:27:42

which was just immature right simple as

00:27:44

that um

00:27:47

uh both right but but more so off field

00:27:50

yeah

00:27:51

um on field you know the rules for the

00:27:53

rules and you know you could pretty much

00:27:54

do what you like and I I was always I

00:27:57

was aggressive on on the field and and I

00:27:59

played my part right but I think a lot

00:28:02

of this also is

00:28:03

you know particularly in that

00:28:06

environment I I had a role to play and I

00:28:08

took on this caricature which is not me

00:28:10

right uh I didn't know that at the time

00:28:12

but I was obviously very combat of

00:28:15

Highly aggressive

00:28:17

um and you know a bit of an enforcer on

00:28:20

the field and that was kind of the role

00:28:22

that I needed to play in the team

00:28:25

um and and I'm still now just starting

00:28:28

to understand some of the stuff and deal

00:28:30

with it but you know like I don't get

00:28:32

into conflict situations I don't I don't

00:28:35

have arguments with people I'm not

00:28:37

aggressive and combative I'm a terrible

00:28:39

negotiator you know I mean I don't do

00:28:41

that in our business

00:28:42

um there's plenty of guys who are good

00:28:44

at that I don't because I just give them

00:28:45

to people

00:28:46

um which is exactly the opposite to what

00:28:49

I used to be so I took on this role in

00:28:52

the team and I thought genuinely thought

00:28:53

that's who I was

00:28:54

turns out I'm nothing like that right

00:28:56

and I've learned that over the past 20

00:28:58

years if you think maybe you that that

00:29:02

is who you were at the time and you've

00:29:03

just evolved and shaped and grown as a

00:29:05

person between then absolutely yeah um

00:29:07

and I think in the same way they kind of

00:29:09

grew out of cricket would be how I sort

00:29:11

of described what my decision to retire

00:29:13

at quite a young age I literally just

00:29:15

grew out of it

00:29:16

um I think over the past 20 years I've

00:29:19

probably sort of grown out of that you

00:29:21

know sort of Highly aggressive arrogant

00:29:24

um

00:29:26

um sort of persona that I had and I

00:29:28

think a lot of it was insecurity you

00:29:30

know I didn't have I didn't have any

00:29:31

experience I had Talent ability I had a

00:29:34

really strong work ethic those were my

00:29:36

weapons

00:29:37

um but I was playing against you know

00:29:39

what I did for a living when I

00:29:41

particularly when I was batting high in

00:29:42

the order was I just played against the

00:29:44

best players in the world who were all

00:29:46

five ten years older than me had much

00:29:48

more experience and it was now they look

00:29:50

back on it I never thought about it at

00:29:52

the time it was just a mismatch you know

00:29:54

like me going up when I was batting

00:29:56

three for New Zealand I was 25.

00:29:59

um I wasn't even a specialist batsman

00:30:01

um and all I did was face you know the

00:30:04

15 best Bowlers in in history that's all

00:30:07

I did right I didn't face anybody else I

00:30:08

just face the best

00:30:10

to sort of bridge that Gap you know I

00:30:13

needed to find something and they're all

00:30:15

five years older than me right you know

00:30:17

like when I was facing Wesley macro and

00:30:19

Waco Eunice you know I was 25 they were

00:30:22

in their early 30s they were at the

00:30:23

absolute Peak I was still learning the

00:30:25

game

00:30:27

um it's just a mismatch right and so for

00:30:30

me to be able to beat them and and

00:30:31

compete against them I needed to find

00:30:33

something to bridge the gap it was

00:30:35

arrogance it was probably that you

00:30:39

probably need that to get you through

00:30:39

what else have I got yeah yeah

00:30:42

um were you a sledger yeah were you

00:30:45

you're right behind the wickets

00:30:47

and that was part of my that was part of

00:30:51

my own sort of mental discipline like I

00:30:53

I remember when when I started to lose

00:30:56

concentration I would literally just

00:30:58

pick a scrap with someone to get myself

00:31:00

focused you know I just literally walked

00:31:02

past and clocked the guy or something

00:31:03

yeah

00:31:04

um and then I used to do it deliberately

00:31:07

um and but that was part of me you know

00:31:10

being able to maintain my levels of

00:31:11

performance so was this the time before

00:31:13

there were like microphones on the

00:31:15

stumps I don't have microphones but I

00:31:16

used to I just used to put my phone yeah

00:31:20

yeah now I knew all the tricks right

00:31:22

um yeah so speaking of like facing these

00:31:24

these Bowlers there was um an incident I

00:31:26

found on YouTube uh from 2000 where

00:31:28

Brett Lee the Aussie fast bowler hit you

00:31:30

on there it was a crazy incident yeah so

00:31:32

you get hit on the helmet with like a

00:31:34

bouncer and somehow

00:31:37

undoes your chin strap and the helmet

00:31:39

falls off and hits the wickets and and

00:31:42

you and you get out so that that's done

00:31:44

has done that incident but I I just want

00:31:46

to know from someone that's never been

00:31:47

hit in the head with a cricket one of

00:31:49

the woods clusters Bowlers like what's

00:31:51

this like are you yeah you stunned at

00:31:53

that point oh yeah it's like a

00:31:54

four-story building falling down on top

00:31:55

of it

00:31:57

um yeah like yeah literally that one

00:31:58

there just literally snapped the chin

00:32:00

strap

00:32:01

um and I just remember my head just

00:32:04

vibrating right literally seeing double

00:32:07

um I think it was Mark War who you know

00:32:10

very graciously came up to right behind

00:32:12

me and told me to [ __ ] off

00:32:17

and then pointed which way the stand was

00:32:21

which was quite helpful because I had no

00:32:23

idea yeah wow

00:32:26

you see the clip and it looks like

00:32:27

you're aware of what's going on and

00:32:28

you're sort of standing on the ground

00:32:29

but will you just by willing Dazed and

00:32:31

Confused yeah yeah do they do like

00:32:33

concussion chicks or anything they

00:32:35

didn't back then but I I definitely

00:32:36

ended up with a few sort of mild

00:32:38

concussions no question about that um

00:32:40

and plenty of cuts and scars like all

00:32:42

through my eyebrows and eyes you can

00:32:43

sort of if you have a good close look

00:32:45

there's Fair bit of work up there Oh I

00:32:47

thought they were Botox scales

00:32:48

they're battle wounds um and what are

00:32:51

your um Recollections or or thoughts of

00:32:54

like New Zealand Cricket in the 90s you

00:32:56

know uh ego there was the wheat Were You

00:32:59

There When the weed incident happened I

00:33:01

was on that tour but I actually wasn't

00:33:03

um I'd I'd left uh to go to

00:33:07

do I was in Durban the rest of the team

00:33:09

was in Cape Town I had I had a week off

00:33:11

yeah

00:33:12

Dion Nash I think it was Flem nashy

00:33:16

I don't want to get anybody else trouble

00:33:17

here who wasn't involved um but bygones

00:33:20

it's such a lot of news a couple of

00:33:21

others I forget exactly who they were

00:33:23

this was such a big thing at the time it

00:33:25

was huge it was it was it was and

00:33:26

everybody just assumed I was involved

00:33:28

yeah it's going to be perorian Ken's

00:33:32

must be there I wasn't even in the city

00:33:34

right

00:33:36

so I got tagged for that one but yeah no

00:33:39

I actually to be fair if I was there I

00:33:41

probably would have been yeah yeah well

00:33:43

um there's a great podcast that a couple

00:33:45

of friends of mine do called between two

00:33:46

beers and I've had Dion Nash on and he

00:33:48

talked uh in length about that incident

00:33:50

yeah and like the the backlash and the

00:33:52

treatment for those three guys

00:33:53

afterwards it was just an alarm it like

00:33:56

served legal papers just before playing

00:33:58

a game like shortly after that back in

00:34:00

New Zealand I mean yeah it was all like

00:34:04

I don't know how they had the resilience

00:34:05

or strength to get through it it seems

00:34:07

like it was such a tough time for all

00:34:08

three of them yeah I remember a little

00:34:10

bit about it um

00:34:12

uh you just must have been relieved it

00:34:15

wasn't no it was delighted

00:34:18

thank God for that thank God I wasn't

00:34:20

there because I'm sorry you guys are

00:34:22

going through this but yeah if I had

00:34:24

been there I'm sure I would have been

00:34:25

right in the thick of it right um uh

00:34:27

because we were we were all mates right

00:34:29

like if it was one in all and and that's

00:34:31

that was the ethos of it that was the

00:34:33

culture

00:34:34

um so yeah no I'm pretty sure I think I

00:34:37

deduct a bullet that time and

00:34:40

um what are your um Reflections or

00:34:42

memories of Martin Crowe I know he was

00:34:44

like quite a good friend and mentor of

00:34:45

yours and you never got to be his dad in

00:34:47

tennis he was very very good to me like

00:34:50

um on that first tour at England in in

00:34:52

99 and 89.

00:34:55

um

00:34:56

he sort of took me under my wing like I

00:34:59

was 19 I'm very young 19. the rest of

00:35:01

the team was like a mature black caps

00:35:04

team you know they're all well into

00:35:05

their mid-30s I played my first test

00:35:07

with Sir Richard he was 40.

00:35:10

um I didn't have a lot in common with

00:35:12

those guys right

00:35:13

um and so I was sort of and I didn't

00:35:15

drink

00:35:16

um and in those days the culture was

00:35:18

very much around you know drinking so I

00:35:20

just didn't fit in

00:35:22

um and but Crowe took me under his wing

00:35:25

taught me how to play so he spent a lot

00:35:26

of time in a Nets with me at the end of

00:35:28

the game

00:35:29

um during the during the county games

00:35:31

yeah he was like a senior player and you

00:35:33

were like yeah he was the first Captain

00:35:34

I think and best player in the world

00:35:35

yeah and um why did he do that just

00:35:38

because he saw potential in there you

00:35:40

saw I think he saw a lot of himself in

00:35:42

his early experiences in me and so he

00:35:44

did whatever he could to mitigate it we

00:35:46

became very very close friends

00:35:49

um over a number of years and you know

00:35:52

we had our moments too I disagreed with

00:35:53

them on occasions and so we had a few

00:35:55

blues and you know he'd get popular and

00:35:57

talk to me for three or four months is

00:35:58

that right about what sort of things I

00:36:01

can't remember the exact details of it

00:36:02

now but it was one of those sort of Big

00:36:04

Brother little brother relationships

00:36:05

very much where you know we could have a

00:36:08

genuine disagreement about things and

00:36:09

he'd be you know severely pissed off and

00:36:11

not talk to me for a few months

00:36:13

um and I'd know I was in dog box but

00:36:15

eventually you know we'd sort of Patch

00:36:16

It Up

00:36:17

um isn't that funny the passage of time

00:36:19

isn't it funny so whatever it was it was

00:36:21

probably massive at the time but all

00:36:22

these years passed and it just seems

00:36:24

insignificant whatever it was yeah

00:36:26

absolutely but um you know I think and I

00:36:29

look back very fondly with at those

00:36:31

memories

00:36:32

um Mark great batch was another one who

00:36:35

along with Martin spent a lot of time

00:36:37

with me earlier in my career and was a

00:36:38

you know these guys are my heroes

00:36:40

watching them on TV and all of a sudden

00:36:42

I'm actually in the dress room sitting

00:36:44

right next to them and got to go play

00:36:46

with them um it was a big stretch and

00:36:48

then so to be included and made welcome

00:36:50

by those guys and to develop friendships

00:36:53

Patty and I still mates to this day we

00:36:55

play golf once or twice a year do you

00:36:57

really um I love that guys one of my

00:36:59

favorite cricketers especially when he

00:37:00

was Fielding he was just he was a big

00:37:02

guy but he was so Nimble in the field

00:37:03

wasn't he yeah and aggressive and you

00:37:05

know I just had that that epitome and I

00:37:07

wanted to be like them right I copied

00:37:09

them

00:37:10

um and so those friendships they last a

00:37:12

lifetime and they're still on foot now

00:37:14

yeah Martin Chris no longer with us can

00:37:16

you remember your last interaction with

00:37:18

them or the last time you saw him

00:37:20

um

00:37:21

yeah I can he came to my office just up

00:37:23

the road here on Freeman's Bay

00:37:25

um and I came in and he towards the end

00:37:27

he used to come in quite regularly

00:37:28

probably once every three or four months

00:37:30

and when he was when he was sick yeah

00:37:32

yeah when he was sick and he would just

00:37:34

come in and hang out with us Dion was

00:37:35

sharing the office with me at that stage

00:37:36

with his Triumph and disaster business

00:37:39

um and so we were there there are

00:37:41

occasions when I think Kenzie was in

00:37:43

there as well and Crowley would just

00:37:44

come in for a morning and hang out

00:37:46

um and I remember you know that was sort

00:37:49

of towards the end so that's probably my

00:37:51

most recent memories of them I think

00:37:53

um

00:37:54

yeah very sad that we lost them so early

00:37:56

still a sad day you know um I think I

00:37:59

was in Bali earlier this year and um it

00:38:02

was it was the anniversary of mountain

00:38:05

passing and I I messaged Patty just

00:38:07

saying you know I'm feeling a bit sad

00:38:08

that we lost our mate

00:38:10

um so the guy still felt we all still

00:38:12

feel it it was a big loss for us yeah

00:38:15

um yeah so who are you still mates with

00:38:17

Mark great [ __ ] obviously Dion Nash

00:38:19

Tulsi Patty Dion and I three close

00:38:22

um actually Dion uh Kenzie and Tomah and

00:38:25

I have a sort of a reasonably regular

00:38:28

um Zoom call

00:38:29

um that sort of hopefully fortnightly

00:38:31

but certainly once a month before us all

00:38:33

get together and then I bang into a

00:38:35

whole bunch of the other guys on

00:38:37

occasions we all end up in the celebrity

00:38:39

golf tournaments to pack Trevor Franklin

00:38:41

Paddy Scotty styrus

00:38:44

um all the golfers yeah so catch up with

00:38:47

those guys a couple of times a year

00:38:48

that's normally pretty big night

00:38:50

um and then the black Clash is great

00:38:52

opportunity for us all to get together

00:38:53

the guys around we love that right yeah

00:38:55

um that's really good fun so

00:38:57

those friendships they last a lifetime

00:38:59

right they they really do yeah and I get

00:39:01

the feeling from you you're um a

00:39:03

fiercely um loyal sort of person you

00:39:05

know the sort of person that um

00:39:07

I think I saw this on a lance arms you

00:39:09

know Lance Armstrong the cyclist uh sort

00:39:11

of documentary with him and he talked

00:39:12

about when a [ __ ] hits the fan you have

00:39:14

people that lean in and people that lean

00:39:15

out I feel like you're a sort of person

00:39:17

that leans in

00:39:18

um were you were you leaning in leaning

00:39:21

out or just like standing straight when

00:39:22

Kenzie's been going through his scandals

00:39:24

over the years oh definitely leading in

00:39:26

um

00:39:27

yes now I um

00:39:29

I mean I probably won't talk about my

00:39:31

feelings around how all that went

00:39:32

because it's a it's a really difficult

00:39:34

topic because I've got friends on both

00:39:37

sides like very close friends

00:39:40

um and yes I've got my own views on that

00:39:43

but also

00:39:45

um you know Kenzie's been very good to a

00:39:47

lot of us over the years right

00:39:49

um uh and I sort of yeah no you're right

00:39:52

Dom like I'm fiercely loyal and I think

00:39:54

just because somebody makes a mistake

00:39:56

um

00:39:57

uh you know that doesn't sort of cancel

00:40:00

everything else out that's going on

00:40:02

um and I think that that particular

00:40:04

incident was very very challenging for

00:40:06

the for the black claps for the black um

00:40:08

caps group

00:40:10

um and you know I think it's been

00:40:12

pleasing to see that a bit of time and a

00:40:14

little bit of water under the bridge has

00:40:15

softened what were some pretty intense

00:40:17

feelings yeah and pretty difficult

00:40:19

things for us all to deal with right

00:40:22

um it was not easy and you know trying

00:40:24

to sort of be supportive of everybody

00:40:26

that was involved was was not an easy

00:40:28

thing to do mate yeah

00:40:30

but I think my my feelings to

00:40:33

Christopher

00:40:35

um have always been pretty clear you

00:40:37

know we had a great ride on his

00:40:38

coattails all of us

00:40:40

um and the view was pretty good so yeah

00:40:42

yeah he was an exceptional player I just

00:40:44

knows you called him Christopher do you

00:40:46

call him Christopher no yeah I do on

00:40:48

occasions yeah yeah on occasions it

00:40:50

sounds like he's in trouble normally

00:40:54

all right let's play enough about the

00:40:56

cricket um I'm mindful of the uh the

00:40:58

time we've got here with you today and

00:40:59

there's uh it's been such a like a rich

00:41:02

tapestry of a life and there's so much

00:41:04

to get through but um like there's the

00:41:06

business stuff the personal side of

00:41:07

Edinburgh but the Everest stuff is

00:41:09

something that I'm immensely interested

00:41:10

in so on May 20 20 2011 you um made it

00:41:15

to the summit of Mount Everest and

00:41:16

actually uh I had an interview with you

00:41:18

a few days after that I think back at

00:41:20

base camp on my radio show one of the

00:41:21

worst interviews ever your voice was

00:41:23

gone

00:41:24

like you you had you had very little

00:41:26

voice left but I I appreciated the

00:41:28

opportunity to speak to you and actually

00:41:29

you're the first person and maybe the

00:41:30

only person will ever have on the

00:41:31

podcast that is Summit at Mount Everest

00:41:33

so where where did this come from so you

00:41:35

finished Cricket spend a bit of time in

00:41:37

business you know how do you get into

00:41:38

mountain climbing just a very strange

00:41:41

um turn of events uh my brother-in-law

00:41:45

um just who I hadn't seen for about

00:41:46

eight years just happened to turn out to

00:41:48

be a high altitude guide he was on his

00:41:50

way to Everest gave me a call caught up

00:41:52

with him having sort of lost touch with

00:41:53

them for quite a few years and um

00:41:56

and then when he got back from Everest I

00:41:58

think he guided um for hammocks in 2010

00:42:01

and so when Johnny

00:42:03

um Johnny Davison when he got back from

00:42:06

Everest he you know I didn't have much

00:42:08

to do that winter and he said why don't

00:42:10

you come for a climb with me so we went

00:42:12

down to Queenstown and you know had a

00:42:14

couple of nights um socializing and then

00:42:17

sort of went up into the mountains and

00:42:18

he sort of 101 me we climbing the

00:42:20

remarkables and went out to White Creek

00:42:21

and did some ice climbing and you know

00:42:23

just did the you know the base so this

00:42:25

is your first time with like crampons

00:42:27

first time out um learned how to you

00:42:30

know run a tent and do all that sort of

00:42:31

stuff in the snow and just kind of fell

00:42:33

in love it um and then he sort of said

00:42:35

why don't you climb Everest with me next

00:42:37

year and I said well I've always sort of

00:42:39

wanted to have you yeah had you in the

00:42:41

back sort of but I was scared I was

00:42:43

afraid like I remember when we were in

00:42:45

India we flew past it a couple of times

00:42:47

uh on our way to guahati and it's above

00:42:50

you when you fly past right

00:42:52

um yeah eight thousand something meters

00:42:54

so pretty spectacular and um read all

00:42:57

the books you know Into Thin Air and all

00:42:58

that sort of stuff so I was fascinated

00:43:00

by it but obviously terrified which is

00:43:02

normal

00:43:02

and then all of a sudden here was an

00:43:05

opportunity and a bit of a pathway to

00:43:06

actually do it and I was separated from

00:43:10

Sally at the time and single and sort of

00:43:13

in a bit of a no man's land and

00:43:14

emotionally and quite a good place for

00:43:15

that and so I decided I'd give it a

00:43:17

crack

00:43:18

and so I climbed sort of semi

00:43:20

professionally for about 18 months

00:43:22

learning the ropes basically went to the

00:43:24

Himalaya previously in October of 2010

00:43:28

and climbed another of the 8 000 meter

00:43:30

Peaks called manosloo and that got me

00:43:32

into the swing of the hermex program I

00:43:36

got to meet Woody who's still my

00:43:38

climbing partner to this day Russell

00:43:40

Bryce who runs hammocks and as a legend

00:43:42

an icon particularly on Everest

00:43:45

um you know he sort of Mr Everest and

00:43:47

got a got a bit of a view into the team

00:43:49

and these guys are the best in the world

00:43:51

right so and I immediately felt quite

00:43:54

comfortable in that environment a lot of

00:43:56

it was very familiar the routine of it

00:43:58

was quite somewhat of being in a cricket

00:43:59

team not scarily similar and I hadn't

00:44:03

been involved in that environment for 10

00:44:05

years at that stage like when I finished

00:44:07

playing sport I literally had nothing I

00:44:10

literally walked out of the dressing

00:44:11

room and it was like turning a light

00:44:13

switch off and I had nothing to do with

00:44:16

anybody in cricket for 10 years like

00:44:19

nothing was that necessary on your part

00:44:22

to have like sort of that sort of break

00:44:23

or that sort of break up if you like

00:44:25

yeah I'm not I'm not sure what that was

00:44:26

about but I looked back on it now and it

00:44:28

looks to me like that was a bit of a

00:44:30

trauma response

00:44:31

um

00:44:32

and I'm still sort of trying to figure

00:44:34

some of the stuff out Tom to be honest

00:44:36

because that's not normal right like

00:44:38

there's not normal behavior

00:44:40

such a big part of your life but maybe

00:44:42

you feel necessary to do that

00:44:45

if you had any therapy or anything yeah

00:44:47

oh yeah yeah and does this come up what

00:44:49

did they say about it some of the stuff

00:44:51

that we're sort of trying to figure out

00:44:52

yeah he's still in the process I'm in

00:44:54

the process so I did wait well I have

00:44:55

the once a week on a Wednesday 10 30.

00:44:58

been doing it for two years 18 months

00:45:00

seriously only started sort of when you

00:45:02

were 50-ish yeah yeah why did it take

00:45:05

you so long was it nerves was it fair no

00:45:07

I've always sort of um you know I've had

00:45:09

relationship counseling at various times

00:45:10

over the years obviously

00:45:12

um and then suddenly thought actually

00:45:14

because I always quite enjoyed it it's

00:45:15

quite good to have a professional third

00:45:17

party adjudicator

00:45:19

especially with that taking your side

00:45:21

that's right well that's I mean that's

00:45:23

good I mean I've always sort of

00:45:25

responded quite well to Authority like I

00:45:27

pushed the boundaries a little bit but

00:45:28

when when somebody in Authority tells me

00:45:30

what the rules are I quite like that

00:45:32

yeah so you know you know like I'll go

00:45:34

all the way to the line but I respect

00:45:37

so I found that sort of quite

00:45:39

comfortable

00:45:41

um and then a natural extension of it

00:45:42

was I'd go away and do some work on

00:45:44

myself because I felt like I needed to

00:45:47

um and this sort of stuff came up in

00:45:48

those sessions and it wasn't being

00:45:51

brought up by Anna who looks after me

00:45:53

but um it was stuff that I sort of

00:45:55

started to figure out about myself and

00:45:57

I'd say to listen you know when I

00:45:59

finished playing Cricket this is what

00:46:00

happened

00:46:01

um and I remember saying to one he said

00:46:04

that is not normal

00:46:05

um so yeah we're starting to get into

00:46:07

all that stuff which is great right like

00:46:10

trying to figure out you know the way

00:46:12

that you behaved as a young man like

00:46:15

what the hell was that about

00:46:16

um because it's quite different to the

00:46:17

way I behave now yeah it's fantastic it

00:46:19

just gives you a new perspective and a

00:46:20

new way of looking at things so I really

00:46:22

like it anyway back to the Everest thing

00:46:23

so you how much does it cost to climb to

00:46:26

get them with a good climbing group so

00:46:28

like big money 50 Grand no no it's about

00:46:30

I reckon it's about a hundred

00:46:32

um to go on those you know those five

00:46:34

dollars premium guided Expeditions but

00:46:37

that gives you safety so it's the best

00:46:40

weather forecasting it's the best guides

00:46:41

it's lots of Sherpas it's the best food

00:46:44

um it's really the full you know the

00:46:47

super Platinum service you can do it a

00:46:50

lot cheaper

00:46:51

um I mean if I was going back to K2 I

00:46:53

could probably do that on 40 or 50 I

00:46:55

reckon but I wouldn't be part of a

00:46:57

guided Expedition I'd take Woody

00:47:00

um and we'd just build out our own

00:47:02

infrastructure and we'd climb it without

00:47:04

a big group just the two of us would

00:47:05

still have super support and all that

00:47:07

but I think and now that I'm more

00:47:09

experienced I can do that

00:47:12

um

00:47:14

but also I've had plenty of time in

00:47:16

these mountains you know climbing on my

00:47:17

own

00:47:18

um I've had a few pretty interesting

00:47:21

experiences doing that

00:47:23

um so that's quite different yeah like

00:47:24

what what do you mean like like the

00:47:26

scary calls yeah I've almost killed

00:47:28

myself three times yeah yeah what does

00:47:31

that look like on a mountain uh on

00:47:33

Everest the first time

00:47:35

probably mansley was the first time

00:47:37

where you know we were pretty exposed at

00:47:39

8 000 meters

00:47:41

um the night before and the wind changed

00:47:43

just you know the the just bit blue yeah

00:47:47

um blew 100 miles an hour at four in the

00:47:49

morning which is pretty terrifying

00:47:51

um you know I was that stage you're told

00:47:53

to get dressed

00:47:55

um which is you know you're literally in

00:47:57

the middle of nowhere a thousand meters

00:47:59

it's pitch black right um and also like

00:48:01

why am I getting dressed now like

00:48:03

because we might be outside soon um eyes

00:48:05

and the tents just flying away yeah oh

00:48:07

my God you know get dressed okay

00:48:11

um and it's noisy right like it's like

00:48:13

being on the side of 747 you're on a

00:48:15

two-man tent which is you know sort of

00:48:17

this whole tiny little dive and suddenly

00:48:19

it's flat right like it's literally

00:48:21

hitting you in the face

00:48:22

um so you're in the middle of all that

00:48:24

trying to get dressed which is not that

00:48:25

easy to do your down suits and all the

00:48:27

rest of it

00:48:29

um so that was sort of the first a sort

00:48:31

of you know if it had blown another 20

00:48:33

30 miles an hour which I thought it was

00:48:35

going to you know you just get blown off

00:48:37

the mountain right that's the end of it

00:48:39

um the wind stopped and we summited four

00:48:42

hours later

00:48:43

um but that was the first timer I

00:48:45

suddenly went hey do you know what I

00:48:46

might be a bit buggered here and there's

00:48:48

nothing I can do about it out of your

00:48:50

depth at the time you're thinking I

00:48:53

suppose at the time you're just in the

00:48:54

moment and you're not don't think until

00:48:56

afterwards like [ __ ] that was a close

00:48:58

call yeah I mean I got maniacally calm

00:49:00

right like I just made my piece with it

00:49:02

I was like well it's not up to you

00:49:03

anymore

00:49:04

um that's part of it you think because

00:49:05

you're good under pressure as well from

00:49:06

years as well I do tend to do that right

00:49:08

it's the pressure ratchets up I I do get

00:49:11

maniacally calm I go the other way

00:49:13

um which I think was why I was always

00:49:15

pretty good Under Pressure playing

00:49:16

Cricket because that's my natural

00:49:17

instinct I generally speaking don't

00:49:20

freak out

00:49:21

um I tend to go the other way yeah

00:49:23

naturally and that's been the case with

00:49:24

the mountaineering as well

00:49:26

um Everest I got stuck in a massive

00:49:28

collapse in the ice fall

00:49:30

um which was just stupid what is it does

00:49:32

it mean you're walking along in the The

00:49:33

Ice just disappears beneath you so we

00:49:36

were trying to sneak through it was

00:49:37

after our first failed Summit attempt

00:49:39

and there were three of us Woody David

00:49:41

Tate myself four of us and Adrian

00:49:43

balance senior guide and we were trying

00:49:46

to sneak through so we could get back to

00:49:48

base camp so we can get an extra days of

00:49:49

rest because we knew the next weather

00:49:50

window was six days away and we were in

00:49:53

the ice fall in the evening at six in

00:49:55

the evening which is just stupidity

00:49:56

right like there's an amateur mistake

00:49:58

and uh the ice just collapsed and when I

00:50:02

say the ice collapsed an area literally

00:50:04

three meters behind me the size of a

00:50:07

football field just disappeared like

00:50:10

literally disappeared and the ice that

00:50:13

we were on just started moving like this

00:50:15

like it was like being in Donkey Kong oh

00:50:17

my God and so my bit went up and David

00:50:21

Tate was in front of me

00:50:23

um he went down and his bit of ice block

00:50:25

of ice there about size of this room

00:50:28

um about four meters by three meters

00:50:30

they were and they all just started

00:50:32

moving David's one split in half and he

00:50:34

fell over

00:50:35

um so I thought he's gone and all I

00:50:38

could think of was just stay on your

00:50:39

feet if you stay on your feet you're a

00:50:41

chance so I'm literally surfing this one

00:50:43

boss really laugh about it now it's like

00:50:47

holy [ __ ] and it moved probably

00:50:50

I don't know four or five meters I

00:50:52

reckon with me on it

00:50:54

um

00:50:55

and so that was and then we saw the size

00:50:57

of the collapse behind us and when I say

00:51:00

behind us like literally two meters

00:51:01

behind us just disappeared right how far

00:51:04

down did it drop oh

00:51:05

kilometer

00:51:07

yeah it just vanished right gone

00:51:09

um it took them three days to repair the

00:51:12

route after we got back put it that way

00:51:14

it was a big collapse and the noise of

00:51:16

it like you could hear it underneath it

00:51:18

was like a 747 starting up underneath

00:51:20

you I never forget the sound

00:51:23

um and we we survived we got lucky right

00:51:25

dead lucky so that yeah that wasn't um

00:51:28

there wasn't human error or an altitude

00:51:30

problem no altitude sickness or

00:51:31

stupidity

00:51:33

these guys are the best climbers in the

00:51:35

world right yeah so stupidity that you

00:51:37

could not have avoided stupidity that we

00:51:40

just shouldn't have been in the icefall

00:51:41

at six o'clock at night okay everybody

00:51:43

knows that right literally it's a it's a

00:51:45

it's a how did these guys let it happen

00:51:47

because when you get under pressure you

00:51:49

make mistakes right right yeah we were

00:51:51

trying we took a chance and with

00:51:53

hindsight it's just a stupid era but

00:51:56

that's how the best Mountaineers in the

00:51:57

world get killed right the mountain is

00:51:59

the same Mountain doesn't know you're an

00:52:00

expert and you look at you look at all

00:52:04

the best climbers

00:52:05

um they get killed by making amateur

00:52:08

mistakes

00:52:09

and it happens over and over and over

00:52:11

again all right well see at that point

00:52:15

why do you keep going why don't you

00:52:17

sudden your tent that night and go

00:52:18

actually this isn't for me is it because

00:52:20

you'd come too far

00:52:21

no I think at that stage you just

00:52:23

realize that you just made a mistake

00:52:24

right it was just a stupid mistake and

00:52:26

so part of what you do as a climber

00:52:29

um is you manage risk and that was just

00:52:31

a poor decision simple as that it

00:52:33

doesn't mean you're gonna make another

00:52:34

poor decision that's just count yourself

00:52:36

lucky that you've survived it don't

00:52:38

don't do it don't do it again don't do

00:52:39

it again right yeah so reassess your

00:52:42

risk parameters and you know just count

00:52:44

yourself lucky yeah so then the um so

00:52:46

the day you climb to the mountain you

00:52:48

you get out of bed at midnight or

00:52:50

something and you start climbing yeah

00:52:51

well no so that day actually starts at 7

00:52:54

300 meters at camp three so you're up at

00:52:57

six so there's base camp then Camp one

00:52:59

Camp two kept three camp three is

00:53:01

halfway up the lutzy face okay it's at 7

00:53:04

300

00:53:05

um what's the summit eight thousand

00:53:07

eight eight forty eight okay so I like a

00:53:09

k and a half that's a fair way to go

00:53:10

yeah it's a big day um so you get out of

00:53:12

your tent that morning you climb the

00:53:14

loads you face and then you Traverse

00:53:17

across

00:53:18

um uh and then you end up at um four

00:53:22

which is 8 000 so that takes most of the

00:53:24

day you get into Camp 4 at about

00:53:27

lunchtime rest for the afternoon and

00:53:31

then you leave the summit at midnight

00:53:32

that morning you're supposed to put your

00:53:34

oxygen on or we were supposed to put

00:53:35

oxygen on it 7 300. I I get out and I'm

00:53:40

climbing the face reasonably well but

00:53:42

I'm sort of a bit sluggish

00:53:44

um uh there's a couple of the altitude

00:53:46

or well I thought it was just altitude

00:53:48

right um there's a couple of guys who I

00:53:49

normally climb faster than we're sort of

00:53:51

going past me which I thought was a bit

00:53:53

unusual I wasn't feeling my best but

00:53:55

still felt okay hands were really cold

00:53:58

and then I get to top of the late sea

00:54:00

face at 8 000 meters and I sort of

00:54:01

thought better just check my oxygen and

00:54:04

I'd forgotten to turn it on right

00:54:08

so that's a classic example of being

00:54:10

hypoxic right like all of those signs

00:54:12

the cold hands should have been an

00:54:14

absolute giveaway the fact that I was

00:54:16

feeling a little bit sluggish and

00:54:18

particularly when other guys are

00:54:19

climbing faster than you that should

00:54:21

have said to me make check your oxygen

00:54:23

but because I was hypoxic I didn't think

00:54:25

that my brain just wasn't working right

00:54:27

so I climbed all the way to 8 000 with

00:54:29

no O's and then I went [ __ ] well that's

00:54:32

quite good because you've got heaps more

00:54:34

than the others

00:54:35

then I'm going [ __ ] if I arrive at Camp

00:54:37

4 with you know a heap of oxygen I'm

00:54:40

going to get told off

00:54:41

um so I thought right I'll just crank it

00:54:44

right up and burn it off right

00:54:47

so I did and I forget what the leader

00:54:50

Edge was but I turned it to maximum mate

00:54:53

I just turned into Superman right like I

00:54:56

was going Incredibles passing the

00:54:57

Sherpas literally like it was

00:54:59

unbelievable the difference so I got

00:55:02

into Camp four with a little more oxygen

00:55:04

than I should have but sort of managed

00:55:06

to get away with it but um the

00:55:08

difference between no-os and O's at

00:55:10

altitude like different thing right

00:55:13

completely remarkable and did you do you

00:55:15

pass is it just like an urban myth or do

00:55:17

you pass like bodies encased in ice on

00:55:19

the way oh no no that's all there that's

00:55:21

it yeah yeah that's a thing um and then

00:55:23

there's uh uh what they call Rainbow

00:55:26

Valley which is at the bottom of the I

00:55:27

think it's kangshan face which is

00:55:29

climbers have fallen down there that's

00:55:31

the the down suits so you go over

00:55:33

Rainbow Valley

00:55:35

um how many bodies are we talking uh

00:55:37

depends on the snow conditions but when

00:55:39

it's quite dry like our year was quite

00:55:41

dry not a lot of snow

00:55:43

um I think we saw three or four

00:55:45

um and also they're kind of like the

00:55:47

tracks sort of that wide right and it's

00:55:49

yeah like half a meter say about a

00:55:51

kilometer and a half straight down on

00:55:52

that side and then you know it's that

00:55:55

side's China so um

00:55:57

the the sort of the Jokers that you're

00:55:59

better off falling down the kangshong

00:56:01

face because you'll live longer

00:56:03

it's about two k's down on that side

00:56:06

I suppose you have to laugh about it

00:56:08

don't you well the mountains have pretty

00:56:10

black humor right I suppose that's

00:56:12

necessary yeah yeah it is it's sort of a

00:56:14

part of it and were you were you

00:56:16

educated on what to do if you see

00:56:17

someone on the way that's struggling and

00:56:19

yeah you're supposed to just walk past

00:56:21

them well it's kind of every man for

00:56:22

himself right um

00:56:24

it's sort of not really my ethos to be

00:56:27

honest but there's pretty limited what

00:56:29

you can do right um yeah you know it

00:56:32

really is hard getting yourself down

00:56:35

um because hypoxia at I didn't really

00:56:38

notice it until I got sort of above the

00:56:40

Hillary Step

00:56:41

um but and certainly above the South

00:56:43

Summit which is about 8 600 meters I

00:56:46

reckon and at that stage I was even with

00:56:48

oxygen I was quite out of it and you get

00:56:51

clumsy like really clumsy

00:56:53

um and normally my feet are pretty good

00:56:55

but I was suddenly pretty sloppy with my

00:56:57

footwork you know it's a thing

00:56:59

particularly right at that last little

00:57:01

bit and there's not a lot of roommate

00:57:04

but literally the tracks this wide

00:57:05

you've got you know big cornice on this

00:57:08

side and over that is China and this

00:57:10

side you know it's just the that's the

00:57:13

the I think it's the kingstrong face so

00:57:15

you get to the summit then why is it

00:57:17

just a photo and then get the [ __ ] out

00:57:18

of there no I was up there for about 20

00:57:20

minutes really doing what just hanging

00:57:22

out with and having a look

00:57:24

um and it was the weather was perfect

00:57:26

right so I was literally had my down

00:57:28

suit all unzip doesn't t-shirt 6 a.m no

00:57:31

way yeah really yeah see I sort of

00:57:33

imagined um okay so you can take your

00:57:35

gloves off and take some photos and yeah

00:57:37

it was beautiful up there right there

00:57:38

was no breath of wind

00:57:40

um you can see literally you can see the

00:57:43

curvature of the earth you can see from

00:57:45

Earth's flat mate well I can tell you

00:57:47

it's not I've seen it with my own eyes

00:57:49

yeah exactly around well it sounds like

00:57:52

you've got a good day sky is sort of

00:57:53

Bluey black because you're basically on

00:57:55

the edge of the atmosphere and where you

00:57:57

had a crack a day

00:57:58

um and then so I messed around up there

00:58:00

waited for a few of the other guys to

00:58:01

catch up took some photos

00:58:04

um and then I had this really strange

00:58:06

sensation it's probably one of the most

00:58:08

powerful physical Sensations I've ever

00:58:10

felt which is you know we need to go

00:58:12

down now

00:58:14

and it was sort of quite yeah I'll never

00:58:16

forget how that felt it was like this is

00:58:19

great we don't belong here we need to go

00:58:21

down

00:58:22

um

00:58:22

and so that yeah that was my time on the

00:58:24

summit oh that sounds incredible yeah

00:58:27

yeah it was pretty cool experience what

00:58:29

um what do you think means more like um

00:58:31

climbing Everest or some of your Cricket

00:58:33

achievements like playing in New Zealand

00:58:34

playing for New Zealand for the first

00:58:35

time when you're a teenager of things

00:58:37

right really um yeah uh the cricket

00:58:39

stuff was always something that you

00:58:41

celebrated quite outwardly whereas the

00:58:43

mountaineering is very inward

00:58:45

um but I never talk about it right ever

00:58:48

that's why to be able to talk about it

00:58:49

with you is I enjoy it but it's just not

00:58:51

something that I talk about why because

00:58:53

you're you're constantly looking forward

00:58:55

sort of guy or I don't think so I think

00:58:57

it's just uh the experience is so

00:58:59

personal and there's a lot of respect

00:59:02

involved with the mountains and with

00:59:04

your teammates

00:59:06

um you know on all of these Expeditions

00:59:08

uh some people don't come home right on

00:59:10

all of them yeah and it's a risk it's a

00:59:12

risk of everyone that goes so I think

00:59:13

you're very conscious of that and being

00:59:15

very respectful to the people that that

00:59:17

are still in the mountains

00:59:19

um and it's just it's a very inward

00:59:21

personal sort of experience grants and

00:59:24

not something that I sort of really talk

00:59:25

about not sure why it's just but I've

00:59:28

noticed over the years quite a different

00:59:29

thing right but it's something that so

00:59:31

few people do so there must be so much

00:59:32

curiosity around it I'm like I don't

00:59:34

bring it up obviously and um

00:59:36

occasionally when it comes up I'm happy

00:59:38

to talk about it but um it doesn't cut

00:59:40

honestly it doesn't come up much yeah so

00:59:42

for that 20 minutes on the summit body

00:59:44

can you remember what you were thinking

00:59:45

at the time I was buggered myself I was

00:59:49

dead tired thinking holy [ __ ] that's

00:59:51

halfway I'm gonna get down oh is that

00:59:53

right yes but is it easier going down

00:59:55

low like that well it's just as

00:59:57

technical but it's It's Tricky yeah and

01:00:00

it's really physically hard on your

01:00:02

knees and your feet

01:00:03

um

01:00:05

and also it's scary right going down is

01:00:07

quite scary

01:00:08

like tronic because you by definition

01:00:10

you're overtaking people you've got

01:00:12

people coming up so you need to be on

01:00:13

and off the ropes all the time which is

01:00:15

a bit precarious I didn't think about

01:00:17

that yeah right right yeah and some of

01:00:19

them are well everybody going the other

01:00:21

way you don't know who they are and some

01:00:23

of them are you know sort of more

01:00:25

capable than others

01:00:26

um so there's a lot of sort of there's a

01:00:29

lot of risk on the way down third party

01:00:30

risk in terms of safely navigating your

01:00:33

way down she's having you explain it

01:00:35

like that it's probably amazing the uh

01:00:36

the death rate on the mental is not

01:00:37

higher than what it is

01:00:41

there's a lot of people up there who

01:00:43

have no right to be in there on Everest

01:00:45

particularly not not so much on K2 but

01:00:46

even there there's a few that probably

01:00:48

shouldn't have been there so at what

01:00:50

point do you do you realize I think I've

01:00:52

done it and I'm going to live

01:00:54

um

01:00:55

Camp four that you were talking about or

01:00:58

yeah probably by that stage most the

01:01:00

significa yeah when you get down to Camp

01:01:02

four you're kind of you're out of the

01:01:03

Worcester but I think yeah altitude are

01:01:05

you feeling better with every step

01:01:07

um like you genuinely feel stronger as

01:01:09

you descend like that is definitely a

01:01:11

thing and then by the time you get to

01:01:13

Camp four you're sort of through the

01:01:14

worst of it and it's you've got a bit of

01:01:17

work to do still right so you're not

01:01:18

tobogganing down to base camping

01:01:21

so I think for us I mean my timings and

01:01:24

if you compare this to some of the the

01:01:26

tragic stories up there was we left the

01:01:29

Summit AT 12. we were on the Summit AT

01:01:31

6am I was in

01:01:34

Camp four by nine am back at Camp 2 by

01:01:38

lunchtime

01:01:40

wow what a day yeah

01:01:42

um and you compare this to some of the

01:01:44

stories where you've got guys who are

01:01:46

still you know haven't even reached

01:01:47

South Summit at three in the afternoon

01:01:49

right because they're in a line of line

01:01:51

of human trafficking fast enough or

01:01:53

whatever

01:01:54

um the cues the cues are in my opinion

01:01:56

very dangerous

01:01:58

um and I'm surprised that there's not

01:02:00

more issues around that yeah but we like

01:02:03

that night

01:02:04

um so we climbed off the ropes there's a

01:02:06

portion early on in the climb called the

01:02:08

triangle face just below the balcony and

01:02:11

there was a big I've got photos of the

01:02:12

the lights up there the queue so we

01:02:15

didn't we came off the ropes and free

01:02:16

climbed the triangle face and literally

01:02:19

went past everybody and then we were

01:02:20

first so we had no cues because we were

01:02:22

first but still had to navigate

01:02:24

everybody coming back down

01:02:26

um

01:02:27

but I I mean the way that I typically do

01:02:29

that is I will literally come off the

01:02:30

ropes and free climb right um is that

01:02:33

advisable one it just depends on your

01:02:35

own level of competence your own ability

01:02:37

but I for me I feel

01:02:39

uh probably I feel safer

01:02:42

um free climbing reasonably easy

01:02:44

sections of the mountain as opposed to

01:02:47

being on the ropes which slows me down

01:02:49

and then sort of introduces third party

01:02:51

risk in terms of people going the other

01:02:52

way

01:02:53

um and I but I always come from a I go

01:02:56

light and fast

01:02:57

um and try and get myself through danger

01:03:00

quickly as opposed to you know being

01:03:02

completely safe but I back my ability to

01:03:04

stay on my feet like oh I'm good on my

01:03:06

feet um yeah but that's a personal

01:03:08

decision that everybody makes yeah wow

01:03:10

what an accomplishment gee I just looked

01:03:11

at the time we've been going for an hour

01:03:12

for you um promised me an hour of your

01:03:14

time are you in a hurry uh no no that's

01:03:17

good Thomas keep going you enjoy it yeah

01:03:19

yeah I really appreciate you being here

01:03:21

because um I said to you before you came

01:03:22

in I I searched your name on um podcast

01:03:25

platforms and it's not something you do

01:03:27

a lot you're a relatively private and

01:03:29

personal Guys these days you buy these

01:03:31

days which I'm guess is by choice yeah

01:03:32

yeah so I sort of made that decision

01:03:35

um 10 15 years ago yeah

01:03:37

um why is that you just have a guts full

01:03:39

of being you were you were like um a

01:03:42

tabloid fighter you you were in the

01:03:43

woman's weekly or Woman's Day or New

01:03:45

Idea every other week yeah I just had

01:03:47

enough of being exposed to everybody and

01:03:49

everybody having an opinion

01:03:51

um and I did certainly feel the brunt of

01:03:55

the tall poppy syndrome which

01:03:58

and I've sort of started to understand

01:04:00

that a little bit more it's just a cute

01:04:02

name that we as new zealanders have

01:04:03

dreamed up so we can bully people it's

01:04:06

as simple as that and I think as

01:04:08

certainly as

01:04:09

if when it's directed towards young

01:04:11

people and typically they're Sports

01:04:12

people or high-profile entertainers or

01:04:14

whatever it's quite destructive right

01:04:17

um and I was sort of in my era you know

01:04:20

if you have a little bit of success you

01:04:22

were told to just harden up

01:04:23

um which I don't think is particularly

01:04:26

helpful for either young men or young

01:04:28

women absolutely no and you could also

01:04:29

shrug and say oh it comes with the

01:04:31

territory but that's another cop out you

01:04:33

know it's like actually no no I don't

01:04:35

agree with that right yeah you know just

01:04:36

because you're good at playing tennis or

01:04:38

you can sing well and you've had some

01:04:41

success commercially

01:04:43

um that doesn't mean that people have

01:04:45

got a right to line up and pull it out I

01:04:47

mean I just don't buy into that right

01:04:49

it's just bullying it's terrible do you

01:04:51

think it's um still as bad here in New

01:04:53

Zealand do you think it's got better or

01:04:54

is it much the same I don't know because

01:04:55

I haven't had any personal experience of

01:04:57

it because I've been invisible for 15

01:04:58

years yeah and that's not by accident I

01:05:01

just got sick and tired of just people

01:05:02

chipping me um so that's right it does

01:05:05

yeah yeah it does

01:05:07

um uh so I just made a decision I would

01:05:09

just take myself away from that and so

01:05:12

for the last

01:05:13

certainly for the last decade you know

01:05:15

if you don't actually know me you know I

01:05:18

could probably count on one hand a

01:05:19

number of people that have had 30

01:05:20

minutes with me

01:05:21

um I just don't I just don't do that

01:05:24

anymore yeah um yeah it's funny because

01:05:26

I had um Matthew Ridge on the podcast in

01:05:29

the middle of last year and when when he

01:05:31

was at the peak of his Fame he had the

01:05:33

ultimate

01:05:34

um I don't give a [ __ ] attitude and um

01:05:36

we he was sitting in the same chair as

01:05:38

well you are and we sat down and talked

01:05:39

about this and and even he admitted at

01:05:41

[ __ ] stings yeah it hurts it feels

01:05:44

like [ __ ] right now yeah yeah there's

01:05:46

Sticks and Stones saying that I was you

01:05:48

you're about the same age as me you

01:05:49

probably heard it as well my parents

01:05:50

taught me sticks and stones may break my

01:05:52

bones but names will never hurt me but

01:05:53

it's utter [ __ ] name calling does it

01:05:56

so you yeah so you um speaking of

01:05:59

Matthew Rich so so he was married to

01:06:00

Sally and then you you started seeing

01:06:03

Sally after that you got a couple of

01:06:04

couple of kids together

01:06:06

um how I remember watching the TV show

01:06:09

gamer two halves and there was your name

01:06:11

would come up from time to time was that

01:06:13

a was that a friend Rusty time

01:06:15

was Matthew and Sally like well and

01:06:17

truly over and you guys were good uh

01:06:19

they were over Matthew was pretty

01:06:21

protective of Jamie and bossy obviously

01:06:22

right um and I didn't know Matthew Until

01:06:24

I Met Sally um and then obviously I got

01:06:27

to know Matthew

01:06:28

um and uh over the years we became best

01:06:31

mates he was very much like a big

01:06:34

brother to me um like he'd give me a bit

01:06:36

of a hard time but he sort of didn't put

01:06:37

up with anybody else doing it um

01:06:43

was very very good to me also had a huge

01:06:46

amount of respect from right like when I

01:06:47

was playing sport he was the pros Pro

01:06:50

right he was the highest profile he was

01:06:53

you know world-class the best at what he

01:06:55

did

01:06:56

um you know maniacal trainer physically

01:06:59

fit you know an elite in my view yeah

01:07:01

well you you were talking about how you

01:07:02

were earning like two 200 250 a year he

01:07:04

was he said he was on like 800 I was

01:07:06

using a million bucks a year right he

01:07:08

was the first guy I knew was making a

01:07:09

million bucks a year wow

01:07:12

um so so he was in a completely

01:07:14

different level to all the rest of us um

01:07:15

there was Reggie and then there was you

01:07:18

know three or four other guys and I

01:07:19

think I was probably in that bracket in

01:07:20

terms of profile yeah

01:07:22

um but he was Far and Away Beyond

01:07:24

anybody that I saw um and deservedly so

01:07:27

right

01:07:27

um and so that was the basis of our

01:07:30

relationship

01:07:31

um

01:07:32

um and then we became great mates over

01:07:34

the years

01:07:35

um haven't seen them recently but I'm

01:07:37

looking forward to catching up with them

01:07:38

in Europe in a couple of months well is

01:07:40

that right you'd see him when you're

01:07:41

over there yeah well we've got um yeah

01:07:44

we've got the family event up in Europe

01:07:45

later on this year we will all sort of

01:07:47

be together so it'll be nice yeah I I

01:07:49

really enjoyed spending time with him he

01:07:50

seems like it's in a really good place

01:07:51

quite a Zen dude these days he's bloody

01:07:54

hard case

01:07:55

um we had so much fun together yeah um

01:07:57

yeah no we had a lot of fun together

01:07:59

yeah so yeah so you and you and Sally

01:08:01

when you were together you're on the

01:08:02

cover of like women's magazines every

01:08:04

other week I'm guessing that's because

01:08:06

um you you sold you sold magazines do

01:08:09

you yeah we did and that was Sally's

01:08:10

business right so I used to just hold up

01:08:12

one side of the photo

01:08:13

um

01:08:14

but it sort of wasn't really my thing

01:08:16

yeah and

01:08:18

yeah we did so we sold pretty good

01:08:21

um but that's that was a different time

01:08:23

you know

01:08:24

um it just was what it was uh not the

01:08:27

case anymore and I think that's probably

01:08:28

quite healthy yeah so and you so you

01:08:30

guys have got a couple of kids together

01:08:31

how old are the kids aston's uh 19

01:08:34

McLean's 16. they're doing any sport or

01:08:36

anything or Aston plays tennis McLean

01:08:38

plays hockey

01:08:40

um like I never really pushed that yeah

01:08:41

I sort of thought if they wanted to play

01:08:44

sport that's great but you know what

01:08:45

it's a pretty tough way to make a living

01:08:47

um so I've sort of left them to their

01:08:49

own devices yeah

01:08:51

and certainly they both played a little

01:08:53

bit of cricket

01:08:54

um sort of wasn't really their thing

01:08:56

which suited me because I didn't really

01:08:58

want to sit around Saturday morning

01:09:02

I didn't really want to watch cricket

01:09:04

for three hours on Sunday morning yeah

01:09:06

she's a long game 95 of it which

01:09:08

involves watching other other people's

01:09:10

kids play

01:09:14

Give Up by your standards not super

01:09:16

excited and obviously I had to coach and

01:09:19

that sort of doesn't sit that naturally

01:09:20

with me so when they decided that you

01:09:22

know to play tennis and hockey I was

01:09:23

delighted yeah so what happened with you

01:09:26

guys you want to get into it or not

01:09:27

really is it just the pressure of like

01:09:28

being such a high profile capital or

01:09:31

Sally and I yeah um just run its course

01:09:34

yeah I think it just we were together

01:09:36

eight to ten years yeah

01:09:38

um and I just think that it wasn't the

01:09:40

perfect match obviously it just sort of

01:09:41

ran its course

01:09:43

um we were pretty ambitious and we took

01:09:45

it on a lot of projects I think that

01:09:46

took its toll on the relationship

01:09:49

um the friendship was there was no issue

01:09:51

there at all and it was a very

01:09:53

constructive successful relationship

01:09:55

yeah um

01:09:58

unfortunately despite the the you know

01:10:00

we had a pretty rough period for about

01:10:01

five years after it came to an end which

01:10:03

was pretty difficult for everyone

01:10:05

um we've sort of put that back together

01:10:07

again and Sally and I have sort of

01:10:08

probably in the best place we've ever

01:10:10

been which is nice oh that's good great

01:10:11

for the kids well yeah because you guys

01:10:13

actually sell his bloody good company

01:10:14

mate is she yeah yeah you know I

01:10:16

normally go there for dinner once a week

01:10:18

and um you know we get on like a house

01:10:20

on fire

01:10:21

um it's funny how that happens with AJ

01:10:23

like when yeah because yeah you said

01:10:25

there was a tough time and yeah I

01:10:26

remember this was splashed through the

01:10:28

papers as well like some court stuff

01:10:29

that was going on when when you're in

01:10:31

the thick of that the eye of that

01:10:32

tornado you must be thinking I can never

01:10:34

sit down in the same room with this

01:10:36

person again yeah well it was like that

01:10:37

right yeah we didn't talk to each other

01:10:39

for a while and it was you know it was

01:10:41

pretty it was it was pretty sort of

01:10:43

tough times for everybody

01:10:45

um but we managed to with a bit of age

01:10:47

and a little bit of maturity we sort of

01:10:49

managed to put it all back together

01:10:49

again and it's um

01:10:52

it's yeah it's been great for the kids

01:10:53

particularly yeah you know what they

01:10:55

really like is to you know just spend a

01:10:57

bit of time with their mum and dad being

01:10:58

normal yeah yeah age wisdom the healing

01:11:01

power of time as well I think it's a

01:11:03

little bit of humility and yeah swallow

01:11:05

your pride a little bit goes a long way

01:11:06

yeah leave your ego at the doors for

01:11:08

pretty um it's a pretty good start yeah

01:11:10

so how are we married what do you mean

01:11:11

like eight years uh somewhere between

01:11:13

eight and ten years I would say that's a

01:11:15

good Innings but you're a cricketer so

01:11:16

you know that but I think for a marriage

01:11:18

it's it's like people change and evolve

01:11:21

all the time don't you so yeah well you

01:11:22

do you do yeah certainly I do yeah so

01:11:25

you've been married um twice married

01:11:27

twice

01:11:28

um the second one was um to um a girl in

01:11:32

her early 20s when you were when I was

01:11:34

40 so there's a pretty decent age Gap

01:11:36

that was fun but um yeah it sort of

01:11:39

didn't didn't last the distance although

01:11:41

Miller and I were together probably five

01:11:42

years

01:11:43

um

01:11:45

what happened there was it just the age

01:11:47

in the end oh sh yeah just the age I

01:11:49

think and um Miller had Fair bit of

01:11:51

living doing she need to get on and do

01:11:53

it which was probably quite obvious I

01:11:56

think but um I mean we had a lot of fun

01:11:58

together it was and we're still friends

01:11:59

to this day so that's nice well that

01:12:02

must the fact that you're still you

01:12:03

still remain friends with these people

01:12:04

even going back as uh to the the partner

01:12:06

Kate that we're referenced at the very

01:12:08

beginning of the podcast I I mean you

01:12:10

need to take some of the credit I think

01:12:11

for those relationships yeah I think

01:12:13

there's always that period afterwards

01:12:15

where there's sort of not a lot of

01:12:16

communication but I think you know if

01:12:18

these relationships that are meaningful

01:12:20

um it seems a bit of a waste just to let

01:12:22

them go right yes you know you have you

01:12:25

have some great times obviously you have

01:12:27

some tough stuff as well but um I think

01:12:29

as the passage of time sort of uh is

01:12:32

pretty good for that sort of stuff it's

01:12:33

been my experience save what you can

01:12:35

from the fire I guess yeah and I think

01:12:37

also certainly in my case when things

01:12:38

get difficult for me

01:12:40

um you know those people are very

01:12:42

supportive and I think that well

01:12:44

hopefully that means that at some stage

01:12:46

along the line you've done done some

01:12:47

good stuff yeah oh how cool yeah so the

01:12:50

the age difference with you and your

01:12:52

second wife Miller that's um almost

01:12:54

identical to the age Gap that I have at

01:12:56

the moment with them with my partner Ash

01:12:57

we've been seeing each other for a year

01:12:58

and it doesn't seem doesn't seem that

01:13:02

noticeable and uh you know

01:13:05

how much was age involved with your with

01:13:08

your split ultimately do you think I

01:13:10

don't think was necessarily the age I

01:13:13

always sort of said to Miller that so

01:13:15

long as one of us is acting your age

01:13:16

we're probably all right I feel like

01:13:18

that was probably mostly you

01:13:20

let me in my situation with my partner

01:13:23

Ash I feel like um she's the nanner in

01:13:25

the relationship yeah

01:13:27

um but I think it was just I think the

01:13:29

age Gap became a little bit more obvious

01:13:31

and not so much in the fact that it was

01:13:33

a mismatch but more on the fact that

01:13:34

Miller had a whole pile of stuff she

01:13:36

needed to do that I'd already done

01:13:38

um you know and so she needed to go on

01:13:40

and do that and it was as simple as that

01:13:42

yeah that must be which was a bit

01:13:43

heartbreaking but you know it wasn't

01:13:46

with hindsight not unexpected yeah and

01:13:49

she's good now she's seeing someone else

01:13:50

or scratch she lives in Brisbane I think

01:13:52

she's lived in Brisbane for five years

01:13:54

yeah she's in a relationship with some

01:13:56

pretty good guy she's happy yeah that's

01:13:58

cool and your current partner who I

01:14:01

can't think enough because she ended up

01:14:02

teeing up this interview otherwise this

01:14:03

never would have happened

01:14:05

um how long have you guys been seeing

01:14:06

each other yeah just under a year yeah

01:14:08

yeah

01:14:09

um and that was uh that was pretty

01:14:11

unexpected I'd sort of kind of given it

01:14:13

away to be honest

01:14:15

um I was looking at options in terms of

01:14:17

living overseas

01:14:18

um uh sort of got to 50 and sort of

01:14:21

thought we've sort of done this there's

01:14:22

a big wide world out there I might as

01:14:24

well go get in it and as always Don when

01:14:27

you're sort of at least looking for

01:14:28

something it had yeah

01:14:30

um so that was a very pleasant surprise

01:14:32

and we've had a great year together are

01:14:34

you one of these people that um you're

01:14:36

quite lonely on your own are you okay on

01:14:37

your own no I like being online yeah I'm

01:14:39

good yeah

01:14:40

uh I I sort of thought that that was

01:14:42

going to be it for me to be honest I I

01:14:44

look at these things sort of quite

01:14:46

logically and I sort of went with you

01:14:48

know I've had you know three sort of

01:14:50

pretty great love affairs that sounds

01:14:52

like a lot

01:14:53

um over the course of my life it isn't

01:14:54

really is it there might be another one

01:14:56

out there for me yeah but you know if

01:14:59

that's the end of it we've had a red hot

01:15:01

go right yeah you wouldn't you wouldn't

01:15:03

allow marriage again oh no definitely

01:15:05

not I love being married um yeah despite

01:15:08

the fact that to date I haven't proved

01:15:10

to be very good at it I still enjoy it

01:15:11

um I don't know so how long are they

01:15:13

like so eight years with Sally along

01:15:15

with Miller uh five years with five

01:15:16

years

01:15:18

it's hard isn't it because you get you

01:15:19

get married and it's um yeah till death

01:15:21

do us part and yeah forever and ever and

01:15:23

so anything less than that feels like a

01:15:25

fail but I I don't know I think um if

01:15:28

you can if you can give it a red hot

01:15:29

crack and end up like with salvaging

01:15:31

something from the relationship at the

01:15:32

end of it I feel like that's a success

01:15:34

in some ways yeah I think so and then

01:15:35

what there's one more in there that

01:15:36

you've missed which is which is Danny

01:15:38

who um

01:15:40

I'm separated from now A couple of years

01:15:42

ago well no silly and Sally and I went

01:15:45

married okay right so Miller and Danny

01:15:48

right who's where did Danny fit into the

01:15:49

bed show so Danny and I uh dated way

01:15:52

back right early on and then didn't see

01:15:54

each other for 18 years wife and had our

01:15:56

own lives and then sort of

01:15:58

um reconnected after I got back from K2

01:16:00

in 2017. right married for a few years

01:16:03

um and then separated

01:16:05

um

01:16:06

and so we've been separated almost two

01:16:08

years now I think

01:16:09

um well that's a shame because after

01:16:11

that sort of Gap and then reconnecting

01:16:12

you must feel like you sort of

01:16:14

star-crossed lovers or soul mates or

01:16:16

something like that that's meant to be

01:16:17

together right yeah well that was the

01:16:19

thinking but I think um with hindsight

01:16:22

you know the passage of time has not

01:16:24

always kind to these things and you know

01:16:26

we had by that stage there were multiple

01:16:28

kids involved and you know it was

01:16:29

complicated

01:16:30

uh I think I think it was more

01:16:33

complicated and more difficult than

01:16:34

either of us thought because obviously

01:16:36

you know we had known each other for a

01:16:38

long time

01:16:39

um we dated for five years I think the

01:16:41

first time

01:16:42

but it was literally a different time

01:16:44

and a different it was just the two of

01:16:46

us so everything's kind of quite easy

01:16:48

we didn't have any real life pressures

01:16:50

we didn't live together we just dated we

01:16:53

traveled a lot and we were young and

01:16:57

that was quite easy and I think you know

01:16:59

fast forward 18 years suddenly you know

01:17:02

Danny's got three kids to another

01:17:03

marriage young kids

01:17:05

all of a sudden get a whole pile of

01:17:07

complications and compromises and it was

01:17:09

just it was just I think you know we

01:17:10

both tried as hard as we could and gave

01:17:12

it our best shot but it was just you

01:17:13

know difficult yeah

01:17:16

and I think also you know that that's

01:17:18

life it is it is it's part of the rich

01:17:21

tapestry [ __ ] you've been through some

01:17:23

stuff haven't you how's your how's your

01:17:25

mental health been over the years

01:17:26

through all this stuff

01:17:27

pretty pretty good it seemed like quite

01:17:29

a resilient dude yeah I'm pretty

01:17:31

resilient but also

01:17:32

um

01:17:33

I go away and do the hard yards you know

01:17:36

so in terms of working on yourself yeah

01:17:38

yeah

01:17:40

um I try not to run away from the way

01:17:42

that I'm feeling you know I try and sit

01:17:43

sit with it as much as I can which feels

01:17:45

like [ __ ] mate you know you know you

01:17:47

come out of these relationships

01:17:49

um and it takes you six to 12 months to

01:17:52

get yourself back together again when I

01:17:54

separated from Miller I literally

01:17:55

couldn't breathe for 12 months

01:17:58

um how do you mean what do you mean I

01:18:00

had terrible anxiety right

01:18:02

um uh and like I'd literally wake up in

01:18:04

the morning gasping for breath

01:18:06

um and

01:18:08

and with Donnie when we separated I had

01:18:11

yeah terrible I get terrible anxiety

01:18:14

um which is where the exercise comes

01:18:16

from so you know there's times where I

01:18:18

actually can't sit I actually have to go

01:18:20

train yeah otherwise I just can't

01:18:22

physically can't handle it um

01:18:25

and I think that's if you'd said to me

01:18:28

when I was 25 years of age one day

01:18:30

you'll get anxiety I would have gone

01:18:32

[ __ ] off that'll never happen to me but

01:18:34

it has

01:18:36

um and I you know over the years I'm

01:18:38

learning to manage it but

01:18:40

um you know I think at times I think all

01:18:43

of our mental health is not quite what

01:18:44

it could be yeah and I'm no different

01:18:46

mate

01:18:47

um

01:18:48

and unfortunately that's just part of

01:18:49

growing up right yeah yeah

01:18:51

the older you get you realize no one's

01:18:53

no one's immune to it actually I think

01:18:55

when you get older you sort of

01:18:56

accumulate more emotional Scar Tissue

01:18:58

it's like getting dirty Gym gear and

01:19:00

putting it in the bag and checking it

01:19:01

under the car boot or whatever it's not

01:19:03

going to clean itself eventually you're

01:19:04

gonna have to well you're going to deal

01:19:05

with it right yeah yeah you know like

01:19:07

even now I get triggered things happen

01:19:09

that trigger me and um when I was

01:19:11

younger I didn't I had no experiences so

01:19:14

I was pretty bulletproof you know just

01:19:16

kind of managed to shrug my shoulders

01:19:18

and roll through everything

01:19:20

um but as life goes on and you have some

01:19:23

some experiences that are not so

01:19:24

positive

01:19:25

um you start to accumulate with a back

01:19:27

control and I think it's important to

01:19:29

deal with it just do you think part of

01:19:31

that for you comes from like the the

01:19:32

public vlogging that you've had over the

01:19:34

years

01:19:35

uh not so much lately because I've been

01:19:37

sort of pretty insulated from that for

01:19:40

10 or 15 years

01:19:42

um and you know I've got a very tight

01:19:44

group of friends so I'm not exposed to

01:19:45

it too much I'm not in the media

01:19:47

um uh and on the odd occasion that I am

01:19:49

it's never a great experience

01:19:51

um so I sort of try to minimize that as

01:19:53

much as I can

01:19:55

um so I don't feel that much anymore

01:19:57

um it's more just around dealing with my

01:20:00

own personal issues yeah um around yeah

01:20:03

you know just relationships yeah

01:20:05

predominantly so you exercise a lot you

01:20:08

like you're in physically you're in

01:20:10

incredible shape you're looking amazing

01:20:12

um so

01:20:13

I'm not hitting on you by the way yeah

01:20:16

so so you do that um you're in therapy

01:20:19

uh you got any other tricks or tips that

01:20:21

you do you do cold showers or saunas or

01:20:24

journaling or anything uh uh no I do

01:20:27

write a bit of a journal

01:20:28

um on occasions when I feel like it that

01:20:30

sort of comes and goes yep um

01:20:32

uh but typically I try to live pretty

01:20:35

well you know

01:20:36

um and that's I eat well obviously

01:20:38

exercise important for me in terms of my

01:20:40

own mental health

01:20:41

um and I socialize I spend a lot of time

01:20:43

with friends and family I enjoy that try

01:20:45

not to drink too much that's always a

01:20:48

bit of a

01:20:49

with something I'm conscious of um

01:20:51

because I don't think that's great for

01:20:52

your mental health you definitely notice

01:20:54

it don't you yeah it is a depressant

01:20:56

yeah um yeah uh so I try to I keep my

01:20:59

eye on that um but also I like to

01:21:01

socialize you know and and in New

01:21:03

Zealand you go out and you have a few

01:21:04

beers where you or you have some white

01:21:07

um so I think being able to balance

01:21:09

that's been really important and I think

01:21:10

that's probably a key word for me

01:21:12

dimer's balance trying to find that

01:21:13

balance

01:21:15

um when I was younger I was sort of you

01:21:17

know all or nothing and I think over the

01:21:20

years I've learned to moderate that and

01:21:21

I think I'm closer you know I'm 52 I'm

01:21:25

still not the finished article I've got

01:21:27

a bit of work to do but I'm certainly I

01:21:29

think closer than I've been before yeah

01:21:31

are you happy now like when you look in

01:21:33

the mirror is a 52 year old man you're

01:21:34

happy with who you see looking back at

01:21:35

you yeah yeah I am I think um

01:21:38

particularly last 12 months probably

01:21:39

been as happy as I've ever been in my

01:21:41

life

01:21:42

um and I've had times where I've looked

01:21:43

in the mirror and I really didn't like

01:21:45

the guy who was looking back at me

01:21:47

um and I can remember a couple of

01:21:48

occasions where I've sort of looked at

01:21:50

him and gone who the [ __ ] are you and

01:21:52

what have you done with my mate and

01:21:54

that's been a bit of a wake-up call

01:21:56

um I think being able to

01:21:58

you know being able to sort of turn that

01:22:01

intuition on yourself and and critically

01:22:03

examine yourself and be honest with

01:22:05

yourself is important really important

01:22:07

particularly if you want to get better

01:22:09

um and I'm you know I'm I say to my kids

01:22:12

listen I am a long way from perfect but

01:22:14

I do try you know I get up every day and

01:22:17

I try to be better

01:22:18

I think that counts for a lot yeah

01:22:20

absolutely it does I reckon you're a

01:22:23

good dad and a good person still

01:22:25

learning about the dead bit

01:22:27

I don't think anyone anyone that ever

01:22:30

since then goes yep I've cracked it

01:22:32

there's no [ __ ] because they keep

01:22:33

changing

01:22:35

we all do that I think that's the

01:22:38

exciting thing I sort of as Matthew

01:22:39

McConaughey made a speech it was like

01:22:41

for the uh Oscars or something like that

01:22:42

and he was asked who was superheroers

01:22:44

and he said it's super he was asked when

01:22:46

he was 25 and he said my superhero was

01:22:48

me and 10 years I saw that speech yeah

01:22:50

and then at 35 he was asked the same

01:22:51

thing and yeah I think that's a good way

01:22:53

of looking at it it's a great way to

01:22:54

visit yourself in 10 years and isn't it

01:22:56

exciting to think you had 52 you still

01:22:59

realize you're a work in progress and

01:23:00

you're still getting better oh

01:23:01

absolutely

01:23:02

um and I think um the benefit of age is

01:23:05

you just you know you do if you're

01:23:07

paying attention you you do pick up a

01:23:10

few tips along the way yeah life does or

01:23:12

should get easier it doesn't get it

01:23:14

doesn't get easy but it should get

01:23:15

easier and I think trying not to same

01:23:19

mistake too many times is but helpful as

01:23:21

well

01:23:22

I like that that's a good takeaway well

01:23:25

and you're you're a lot you must be a

01:23:28

lot Kinder now to others and yourself

01:23:29

than what you wear in your 20s oh

01:23:31

absolutely yeah um I talk to people you

01:23:34

know um and I'm I was very

01:23:36

self-conscious in my uh 20s particularly

01:23:38

and I'm very much less so now

01:23:41

um I think I've maintained a sense of

01:23:42

humor right the way through

01:23:45

um I definitely don't take myself too

01:23:47

seriously anymore and I used to take

01:23:48

myself very seriously and I don't really

01:23:51

do that much now and that's been a bit

01:23:53

of a relief to be honest

01:23:55

um yeah yeah life's definitely got

01:23:57

easier I think playing professional

01:23:59

sport is a really difficult thing to do

01:24:01

as a young person

01:24:02

in many many ways and I don't think it's

01:24:04

very un very well understood

01:24:07

um but it's a big task I got a lot of

01:24:09

respect for young people who take that

01:24:10

on and succeed it's it's not easy to do

01:24:12

yeah hey well look I I can't thank you

01:24:15

enough as I said before you you don't

01:24:17

you are notoriously private these days

01:24:19

you don't do a lot of these stuff and I

01:24:21

feel like you've been really unguarded

01:24:23

today and uh even like in the last 10 or

01:24:26

15 minutes showing some real

01:24:27

vulnerability and I don't know if that's

01:24:28

easy for you to do or it's getting

01:24:31

easier yeah and actually that word it's

01:24:33

interesting the vulnerability would

01:24:35

because that comes up a lot with me

01:24:38

um uh I never heard that word in my 20s

01:24:41

and 30s like nobody was talking about it

01:24:43

right and I think society's changed like

01:24:46

the word never got said it just never

01:24:48

got set

01:24:50

we're swimming in the same sort of

01:24:52

waters at that age and it's like in

01:24:54

you'd never show any sort of weakness

01:24:55

because it could be weaponized against

01:24:57

you yeah it was the last thing you did

01:24:59

yeah whereas I think Society has changed

01:25:02

now and I think you know particularly as

01:25:03

men and young men being vulnerable has

01:25:06

seen rightly as as a symbol of strength

01:25:10

not not weakness

01:25:11

um and when I was in my early 20s

01:25:13

vulnerability was weakness

01:25:15

and I think you know our culture around

01:25:17

that stuff has changed for the better

01:25:19

and you know aston's 19 and he's he's

01:25:22

sort of starting to learn about some of

01:25:24

this stuff now and I just it's a much

01:25:25

it's a much more constructive

01:25:27

environment for young people these days

01:25:29

I think which is nice to be a part of

01:25:30

absolutely when was the last time you

01:25:32

cried you cry much

01:25:34

regularly do you um yeah how good you

01:25:37

love it it's good enough I love it

01:25:43

um yeah yeah a week ago probably right

01:25:45

yeah can you read what it was about what

01:25:47

you don't want to say if you don't want

01:25:48

to say that's all right uh yeah no I can

01:25:50

remember what it's about because it was

01:25:53

um you know I was just having a bit of a

01:25:54

moment remembering one of my friends

01:25:55

yeah yeah that's normally particularly

01:25:59

when I think back on memories and people

01:26:00

that have been close to me often you

01:26:02

know that I am quite emotional and very

01:26:05

soft underneath

01:26:06

which has taken me a few years to sort

01:26:09

of start to understand but um that's who

01:26:11

I am right yeah I mean I'm much the same

01:26:13

this but there's probably a period where

01:26:15

I went for like 15 years without crying

01:26:16

at all yeah and um now yeah I've got

01:26:19

yeah I I love it I love having it I

01:26:22

think it's quite healthy yeah it is it

01:26:23

is I I can quite just like dwelling and

01:26:26

thinking about happy stuff for more than

01:26:28

a moment yeah yeah and I find it quite

01:26:30

easy and then as I said it's a regular

01:26:31

for me

01:26:33

um

01:26:33

yeah yeah no idea and I've sort of I

01:26:36

used to try and push it away but not So

01:26:38

Much Anymore yeah oh good for you oh

01:26:40

you're a kind man and um I I was

01:26:44

probably much the same with with as you

01:26:46

with my radio career like during my 20s

01:26:47

all I wanted to be was a [ __ ] Savage

01:26:49

yeah and now if some if someone says to

01:26:52

me are you you're a kind person I I take

01:26:54

that as the ultimate compliment I think

01:26:55

yeah that's a very nice compliment I

01:26:57

mean I certainly I had my walls up you

01:27:00

know that was that was a thing and

01:27:01

learning how to sort of drop those down

01:27:03

and keep them down has been good for me

01:27:05

yeah yeah I mean life's hard for

01:27:06

everyone if we can all do our bit to

01:27:07

make it a bit easier for someone else I

01:27:09

think that's a good thing absolutely

01:27:10

anyway an hour and a half of your time

01:27:12

after you promised me an hour

01:27:13

um thank you so much I hope you don't

01:27:15

regret

01:27:16

um opening up for the first time in 10

01:27:18

years enjoyed it Don it's been such a

01:27:19

pleasure thanks for having me yeah

01:27:20

thanks so much Adam you're a great New

01:27:22

Zealander thanks

01:27:23

[Music]

01:27:30

thank you

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Episode Highlights

Running Home from Matches
Adam shares a memorable moment of running home after a long day of fielding during a test match.
“I was three K's from the Basin and next in.”
@ 04m 05s
March 19, 2023
Life Reflections
Adam discusses how his ambitions have shifted over the years, focusing more on family and friends.
“I enjoy celebrating their success, less so for me now.”
@ 07m 44s
March 19, 2023
The Quest for Perfection
Chasing perfection in cricket is an exhausting journey filled with disappointment.
“The elusive quest for Perfection.”
@ 18m 25s
March 19, 2023
Retirement Reflections
He retired at 31, feeling accomplished but ready for new challenges in life.
“I literally just grew out of it.”
@ 29m 15s
March 19, 2023
Brotherly Bonds
He describes a close relationship with a senior player who saw potential in him.
“He saw a lot of himself in me.”
@ 35m 42s
March 19, 2023
Friendships That Last
Reflecting on friendships formed in cricket that continue to this day.
“Those friendships last a lifetime.”
@ 37m 12s
March 19, 2023
Facing Everest
He recounts the terrifying moments of climbing Everest and the risks involved.
“I might be a bit buggered here and there's nothing I can do about it.”
@ 48m 46s
March 19, 2023
Managing Risk as a Climber
Climbers must manage risk, and sometimes mistakes can lead to life-threatening situations. "Count yourself lucky that you’ve survived it."
“Count yourself lucky that you’ve survived it.”
@ 52m 34s
March 19, 2023
The Reality of Climbing
Climbing Everest involves navigating risks, including the presence of bodies on the mountain. "It’s just bullying, it’s terrible."
“It’s just bullying, it’s terrible.”
@ 01h 04m 49s
March 19, 2023
Navigating Relationships
Reflecting on past relationships, he emphasizes the importance of humility and maturity.
“Leave your ego at the door for a pretty good start.”
@ 01h 11m 08s
March 19, 2023
Mental Health Journey
He discusses his struggles with anxiety and the importance of working on oneself.
“I try not to run away from the way that I’m feeling.”
@ 01h 17m 42s
March 19, 2023
Embracing Vulnerability
He shares how vulnerability is now seen as a strength, contrasting with past views.
“Vulnerability was weakness, but now it’s a symbol of strength.”
@ 01h 25m 11s
March 19, 2023

Episode Quotes

I enjoy celebrating their success, less so for me now.
NZ Cricketer turned Mountaineer, Adam Parore || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
Nothing was ever good enough.
NZ Cricketer turned Mountaineer, Adam Parore || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
Isn't it funny the passage of time?
NZ Cricketer turned Mountaineer, Adam Parore || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
Count yourself lucky that you’ve survived it.
NZ Cricketer turned Mountaineer, Adam Parore || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
It’s just bullying, it’s terrible.
NZ Cricketer turned Mountaineer, Adam Parore || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
I’m a long way from perfect but I do try.
NZ Cricketer turned Mountaineer, Adam Parore || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey

Key Moments

Running Theme00:59
Life Reflections05:41
Friendship36:53
Close Calls47:21
Risk Management52:34
Summit Experience58:12
Healing Relationships1:10:08
Emotional Reflection1:26:02

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