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hey Runners only with dime Harley Runners only with dom Harvey and the relatively reclusive and embroidery
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g'day mate Dom how are you fantastic thank you so much for coming over um this was organized through your
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girlfriend Libby um you you're a shocker on social media so I'll DM you and then
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a week later you'll get back to me and yeah but she made this happen overnight
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yeah she did well about 10 minutes actually yeah phenomenal yeah you're under the thumb I don't spend a lot of
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time on the uh on the socials an infrequent visitor yeah well I appreciate you being here Adam Brewery
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first ever Maori to represent New Zealand in cricket retired with 204 test dismissals which I believe is still a
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New Zealand record uh no I think I think BJ Watling snuck past me a few years ago
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I think I'm not 100 sure I don't follow that stuff that closely another record
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that still stands highest one day international Innings without scoring a boundary that was 96 runs against India
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and that'll never be broken nobody could play that badly for that long that represents a lot of running which is
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good we'll get to that it's a running theme podcast um also the only test cricketer to ever
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reach the summit of Mount Everest yeah that might um yeah I'll be curious to see if any other cricketer decides
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that that's a good idea probably not so so what is what is your relationship
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with running we mentioned before that 96 um in 1994 against India which was made
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up of singles and twos and maybe a three uh threes might have been a few but there's a lot of ones and twos yeah um
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yes I I love running and still do but I'm a bit limited these days um but that was always the base of my
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cardio I used to run when I was playing I would run uh 10ks six days a week and about 34 to 36 minutes I think 33 23 was
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my best um is that right this isn't the case this isn't the case anymore this isn't
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the case of the older I get the better jet time yeah that was it that is heaven yeah yeah that was flat stick
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um now I can run about uh six K's and I do that three times a week and that's probably
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about my limit my I tend to pull calf muscles if I do if I load it too much what's the difference I love it what
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sort of pace now just like four minute four minute case at my best four and a half's comfortable
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um and you've probably seen me I've got a little bit of a circuit past your
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place actually yeah it's a great place um that's incredible Pace your 50 52 now
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and can't quite shift like I used to but it feels like I'm still going the same
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speed you could still do a sub 25. possibly yeah yeah oh how good but I enjoy it I like it um well for the
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physical health benefits or the mental health benefits and also I like the way it feels um I walk most days so I'll do
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uh at least an hour of walking um and then probably 45 minutes in the gym and then uh if I'm if I'm triple
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crowning I call it I'll then do the 6K run on top which I did last night um and sometimes I break it and I'll
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walk in gym in the morning and then in the afternoon I'll go out for a run for
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you know 30 odd minutes yeah I mean physically you're looking and you're
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looking in Great Neck you really are probably in better shape now than when I played professional sport or close to it
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is that so yeah yeah yeah there's a thing like 20 years since you played professional as well yeah
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um well I don't have to play anymore so I got plenty of time to train yeah right
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and I I heard rumors about you when you were playing you you'd often um like
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play a game and then run home yes yeah yeah but not for New Zealand though this must have been lower levels not enough
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in New Zealand um back to the hotel I went for a run where I think it was a 1999 test match
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against the West Indies at the basement Reserve in Wellington and we we'd field
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it for a very long time um and I think there was a couple of hours to go it was just after tea I
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think and a beautiful day in Wellington and I've been Fielding for a day and a
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bit and I thought I'd just go out for I didn't think I'd be batting that day so
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I thought I'd just go out for a bit of a run just to loosen up a little bit and
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just clear my head and I went out around the base at Oriental Bay and I had my little radio on so I could listen to the
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cricket um and guess what happened I got I got sort of four or five k's from the Basin I think I was still my
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normal sort of 10ks and then all of a sudden three or four wickets fell I was three K's from the Basin and next in
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um oh my God you must have been shedding yourself did you get a taxi or I was I honked it back and managed to get in
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there scrambled Into The Dressing Room everybody was freaking out as to where I was obviously who was the coach then 99
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that must have been Steve Rickson right um did you get in trouble afterwards well no not really but um
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yeah but and then I was batting like 10 minutes after I got my gear on I was still sweating and then somebody got out
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and I'm batting right literally 10 minutes later um how was it how were you even allowed
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to leave the ground I wasn't allowed after that right right that was the end of that but it's not
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like I was going for a beer right I was going out for a job yeah yeah yeah well um oh that's incredible uh yeah I I
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found this book in my bookshelf yesterday I haven't seen that for a few years this is called
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um uh the great Little Cricket signature book uh I think this is like 30 years old this is um this is just when you
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were beginning to play for new just just about to overtake Ian Smith as the the Wicket keeper for New Zealand early 90s
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so I thought what we could do right now um yeah when was the last time have you got a copy of this at home at all no no
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I signed a lot of those back in the day but I wouldn't have seen a copy of that
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for 20 years when you see that photo of um a young Adam a young fellow yeah yeah
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then you feel at the same time same person I'm guessing physically you feel the same but uh do you know what Dom
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it's like that was like a different life it really was like a different life yeah
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um uh occasionally pick up my autobiography and sort of read a page or two out of that which is quite
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embarrassing um actually Libby my partner just emailed me this morning and said have
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you got a copy of this lying around because she's been badgering me about reading it for a couple of weeks and
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I've just sort of ignored it hoping that would go away but she bought a copy of
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it so that's embarrassing um yeah amazing uh but yeah it's literally like
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a different life yeah well it is I mean it's yeah 30 years ago 30 years ago so
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you're a young guy there at the start of your career so I thought what we could
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do right now I'll put the questions to you and we'll see what your answer is
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now in comparison to your answer 30 years ago how does that sound you know so this would be fun this will be
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interesting what's your nickname AP oh yeah it was Maverick back then yeah yeah my Cricket mates and my old friend
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still call me mayor Top Gun reference or yeah yeah Martin Crowe gave me that um yeah yeah so that was that was Crowe's
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nickname but now everyone just calls me AP yeah what's your favorite food uh probably fish and steak no longer my
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girlfriend's Kate my girlfriend Kate's pasta salad I haven't even passed her
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for a long time are you still you're still friends with Kate you still know Kate uh haven't seen her for a few years
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but occasionally bump into her yeah um my favorite music is I listened to a lot of house music
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um yeah I've got various DJs who I like yeah right can you remember who it was
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back then for a young area it would have been the cars or something like that I would imagine yeah because Queen Brian
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Adams Cat Stevens yeah um my ambition in life is what's your impression in life now
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um yeah that's an interesting question I kind of feel like I've sort of done a
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lot of that I think um you have done a lot probably just to be happy um I have ambition for my family
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um and our kids yeah kids and um you know and close friends I have some ambition for them and I enjoy
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celebrating their success less so for me now um but I do enjoy seeing particularly
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the kids right when they're successful I enjoy that a lot I I know that I know
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that's a genuine answer but um I still reckon there's a lot for you to do and you'll still keep chasing
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those ridiculous goals like climbing Everest maybe not as Extreme as that but yeah I sort of um starting to get to the
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point now where I did I did Harbor uh thoughts of a second crack at K2 um but I think now that's probably
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that's sort of probably been put to bed once and for all um but the risk involved or just the
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timings right you know it's a 10-week Expedition the risk doesn't worry me so
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much because I know to manage that sensibly but it's just a big commitment emotionally and physically and and sort
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of at that stage of my life where I can't disappear yeah for 10 weeks yeah um just too selfish and you're too busy
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just doesn't really work with with the structure of my life at the moment to be
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honest yeah so your ambition in life back then can you remember what it would have been no idea to beat Hogan's Father
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Goose that goose is that Hogan that's um yeah yeah did you ever beat it as Dad at
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tennis no no and that that Loops back to a story in France uh where we played on
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Craig on Clay um Goose must have been 60 I was 19 and he ran me around and humiliated me and my
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um my response to being beaten was sort of um yeah was not quite what it could have been
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yeah ass kicked by an elderly man yeah I did um I got a lesson um back then your other
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ambition in life was to go on tour where my phone bill cost less than a thousand
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dollars which I ages this somewhat I mean a thousand dollars back then would have been considerable now with like
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International roaming you can get like five bucks a day in most places yeah um another one was to be married with
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Children and you've done that a couple of times done that a few times now A few
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a few times I have more there yeah you take most of them off um my interest include what are your
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interest now mountain climbing obviously yeah mountaineering uh I spent a lot of
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time on the businesses obviously um do a lot of hiking um um what else do I do Fitness Sports uh
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you know to try to live pretty healthily um so I'm quite into Health Fitness
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Wellness all that sort of stuff um spend a lot of time on that yeah back then it
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was a tennis rugby baseball touch on Sunday mornings with the lads because you have to run off a hangover
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still have to do that occasionally sleeping in days on the beach getting crazy with Jamie Hall who's Jamie Hall
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uh one of my old Cricket buddies from from England right um yeah no the good Summers they were
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good Summers yeah is this how does this feel here are your toes killing are these good memories no there's good
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memories yeah good memories um the best piece of clothing I've ever owned is
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well I'm pretty habitual to be honest um back then I'm wondering probably
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would have been Timberland boots or something like that I suspect now it's um more suits and um suits and trainers
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probably no back then it was an old blue jersey I pinched from Kate I actually remember that yeah is that
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the one in the photo or no no no no no no it was a bit older than that but I don't remember it
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um I would hate to be without what would it be now for Adam peroy uh probably kids and family and friends to
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be honest um who are pretty close group of friends particularly um that have built up over 30 years and
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those guys have been with me the whole way um and obviously family is pretty important now yeah yeah I'd agree with
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that being um almost the same same age as you I think um yeah the friends and the connections you have when you when
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you hit 50 it's a reflection of the life you've had up to that point yeah I think
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so and I think um certainly in my case those guys have been with me through all of the good stuff and the bad and um
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yeah I would hate to think that they weren't around anymore yeah um back then um I'd hate to be without
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my Game Boy Kate a sense of humor and my green jeans okay Shrek along with the green jeans
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well I remember rightly that was sort of it was a colored Jean period there were
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Red Green I don't know if I was ambitious enough to try white but there was all sorts of
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colors yeah um she dates that considerably there's an answer here which um you you you
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would never dream of saying now you'd be canceled for this um if I wasn't me I would like to be no
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idea who would have been for Adam Ferrari now though is it if you learned yourself
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yeah that's a funny question because I kind of quite like being yeah that's
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cool that's a good leave it there that's a great answer yeah back then um if it wasn't me I'd like to be a flow
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on the wall and Elle macpherson's bathroom well it certainly dates it doesn't it
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yeah uh the worst job I ever had was what would it be now uh fool what do I used to do I painted
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fences in the seven form um for a living that was pretty brutal um a little bit from where from your
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perspective now as a 52 year old man worst job ever um yeah tough question actually
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um I kind of quite like working yeah um and I think the work ethic that I was taught
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in the cricket side particularly has been a real asset you know like the more so that the culture in that
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team was the more senior you got the more you sort of pitched in and helped out yeah
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um and so I learned to do all the [ __ ] jobs you know at the end of you know I think I'd played three 400 games by the
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end of my career I was still picking up cones at the end of practice yeah um and that I think that work ethic and
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that culture sort of stayed with me so I typically you know I'd clean up the
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dishes I'd do all that stuff right um yes so yeah because I read a book um recently called Legacy which is about
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the uh the All Blacks and they they talk about that in this book and what makes the all black so successful and there's
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a thing like no [ __ ] policy and yeah there's even the most senior players will sweep the sheds afterwards
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so the black caps have been doing that for decades decades yeah and that was one of the things Steve richkin Steve
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Rickson and John Graham introduced and it really stuck with me even now in the businesses I never ask anybody
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um to do anything that I wouldn't do myself because I think in terms of leadership you know it's quite a good
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way to connect with people um if they see you on the tools all of a sudden there's a there's a common Bond so yeah
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I do all the [ __ ] jobs mate yeah oh that's good well back then uh the worst
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job you've had was um a hero or a paper run when you were nine which you were
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fired for for being late yeah yeah that was brutal it was sort of 5 30 a.m starts not great for a for 11 bucks a
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week or whatever it was 11.40 I used to get I did 108 papers um your earliest memory
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what's the earliest thing you can remember now um I remember um first day of school so as a
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five-year-old um you remember that pretty vividly um we were living out in pakuranga they
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went to a primary school called wakaranga and farm Cove so yeah I remember getting myself to school first
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day terrified so it's probably the earliest I think it's funny it's such a
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vivid memory yeah yeah back then you said um running around Stark naked covered in finger paint wearing a blue
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cape and pretending to be Superman oh yeah I was 17. just kidding I was three yeah that was when we lived in Australia
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yeah I do remember that too actually and uh my most embarrassing moment was what
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would it be oh [ __ ] there's been a few um they're quite difficult to pinpoint
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um I think like with a bit of maturity you look back at all sorts of different occasions where you've just made a bit
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of a tit of yourself um so it's hard to pick out one but this number yeah um the sports stuff didn't I don't
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really find that embarrassing I think more your own sort of the way you've behaved personally
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um I find it every now and then when this is pretty embarrassing yeah sorry and you have a bit of a window into how
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immature you were um at a time when you thought you were quite mature that although it's pretty embarrassing mate
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well I think that's the exciting thing about life though I've sort of realized
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the older I get the less I actually know about [ __ ] and the more you're learning
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and the more you're evolving and the more you're changing and I think in
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terms of growing up you know like um you know as a young man you get to sort of 18 or 20 and you think you're all done
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right which is just like looking back at that it's just it's ridiculous um oh yeah when I was that age I I would
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think being 50 is not worth living anymore well you know I was sort of I couldn't imagine myself there
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um didn't think I was going to be anything like this but I think you know a little bit of and I've been
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embarrassed humiliated all that stuff and on some of the biggest stages in the world right and I think that's good for
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on terms of like cricket and growing in terms of growing you up right um you need all that stuff to turn into
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a man um which is not something you think about when you're 18 right you just
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think it's all going to be pretty straightforward yeah it doesn't work like that I I agree I I I
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um I used to I still do but it's something I try and find I used to have this um terrible fear of failure to the
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point where I wouldn't do things if there's a chance of fail and I've missed
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out on so many opportunities in life for that I suppose Cricket's one of those
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Sports where yeah you're out there and the chance to be embarrassed or humiliated or fail is so high well you
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fail most days right yeah get used to it yeah who you are um particularly with the Wicket keeping
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with my standards were but what my standard was Perfection right um that was it I did it half a dozen
00:17:05
times I think and Perfection to me was the perfect day which started in the morning when I woke up so I would brush
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my teeth perfectly when I got on the lift I would push the button perfectly how do you how do you how do you push
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the button not perfectly straight in the middle right like actually and I and I was very focused on you know even when I
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was warming up I'd make sure that I did it as close to perfect as I could and
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then for me a clean sheet as we used to call it was literally to catch every ball which is impossible right all
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somebody has to do is just throw on five feet over your head and you can't achieve it so you need when you need
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perfect execution and then also you need luck and I think I did that in four or five
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occasions maybe over the course of my career um and that was always and the guys knew
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so flim standing next first slip knew Nathan new um I remember one day it didn't park we
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were four or five balls from the end of the day and I was on a clean sheet which
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was unheard of right and and as as open to your own perfect execution as it is to chance and then
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one sort of rolled along the ground and bounced up hit me on my shoulder and popped off to Flynn and I was my heart
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sank and um nobody knew except the guys next to me and they were as heartbroken as I was right they were like come on
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man keep going keep going and I think that's you know that's the the quest doesn't it The elusive quest
00:18:27
for Perfection yeah you're chasing it like a near impossible thing but is that
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is that part of what made you so good I think so yeah yeah nothing was ever good enough right I
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remember in my in my Cricket career particularly every single day I would be disappointed
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um because the mistakes that I made I knew that you know that I was that I didn't that I was actually good enough
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not to make any mistakes it's an exhorting way to live your life though exhausting way to spend your career
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mentally it was just so draining right so you you'd wake up in the morning of a
00:19:00
game and would you be excited or would you be anxious how would you feel or just super focused uh depends on the
00:19:06
state of mind if I was if I if I'd had a poor day the day before all I want to do
00:19:10
is get back out on the field and erase it and until I did that I was mentally sort of feeling quite out of sorts and
00:19:17
typically not in a great place um and that mental challenge is enormous um even now I play in the black Clash
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once a year and I'm still the same like the level of anxiety while I'm performing
00:19:30
um is that right exactly the same let's see that's the hot spring spa thing it
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was on um it's on January each year so it's a bunch of old cricketers and uh
00:19:38
old rugby players playing each other it looks like it looks like a fun thing it's a great day everyone does take it
00:19:42
kind of seriously though right everyone takes it very seriously um and the standards certainly for me
00:19:48
exactly the same right still expect Perfection well yes I was going to ask you because um so
00:19:54
you're growing up you're a young fella um you play softball you're quite good
00:19:57
at that yeah and then you switch to switch to Cricket and you're you're a
00:20:01
[ __ ] natural you're playing for Auckland at the age of 17 New Zealand at the age of 19. I was going to ask how
00:20:06
much of it is natural talent because obviously there's some of that there but
00:20:08
obviously you worked bloody hard as well yep yeah no there was a lot of work but
00:20:12
the particularly the Wicker keeping that was quite I wouldn't say easy but it was net it's
00:20:18
natural okay um which is why I can sort of still do it much the same now um for small bursts right like I I
00:20:26
probably couldn't keep Wicket in a test match if I you know like keeping for two
00:20:31
days in a row yeah squatting down for that long is a 52 year yeah 2020 game it looks kind of the same as
00:20:39
it always did right yeah yeah um and so that's that's fun to be able to do that but the physical limitations
00:20:45
are just different right yeah I couldn't play for five out of seven years for
00:20:48
four weeks like the guys do um but it still feels exactly the same literally it's quite natural and I've
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spent you know tens and tens of thousands of hours perfecting my craft basically
00:21:01
um and that miraculously that doesn't go away I remember when I played in the
00:21:04
first black Clash game I literally hadn't had gloves on for almost 20 years like from the time I walked off the
00:21:11
field in park in 2003 or whenever I retired to when I got to the game I hadn't kept working in between
00:21:18
um I hadn't practiced I just put them on and it was exactly the same I went well
00:21:22
that that's good just muscle memory yeah yeah yeah exactly there must have been a
00:21:26
little bit of rust there in the beginning not much wow yeah not much um so and that was I think that's the
00:21:35
culmination of literally tens of thousands of hours yeah of learning your Craft um and also it took a while to perfect
00:21:43
it right it was you know I played international cricket at 19. it wasn't until I was probably 28 I think that I'd
00:21:51
sort of finally perfected my craft yet I thought at 19 I was pretty new everything done right well it was
00:21:57
definitely good enough to go and play Tess cricket and look like I belonged but I was still a long way from where I
00:22:04
ended up um yeah so you yeah you see you you became a New Zealand player at the age of 19.
00:22:11
um taking over from Ian Smith who I'm guessing as a young fellow growing up was all you knew in terms of the New
00:22:16
Zealand Wicket keeper because he held that position for such a long time did you um were you in awe of him or did you
00:22:21
have this youthful arrogance where you you know he'd coached me since I was 12
00:22:25
years old right so we were mates right um and he was very much sort of a mentor to me and and showed me the ropes
00:22:33
promoted me um answered a great relationship with Smithy um you know he was very very good to me
00:22:40
very very good to me yeah well that's cool so you know he retired in um 2002 when
00:22:46
you were 31 um last innings was um opening batsman with Mark Richardson do you like in
00:22:52
hindsight do you regret retiring then like you still had a lot to give Danielle or did you feel like you've
00:22:55
done it all or why did why did you retire at 31 I just got to that point where I played
00:23:00
for 12 years by that stage I think um I'd achieved everything that I wanted to
00:23:05
um and also I was very conscious the fact that I wanted to move on and do other things like I never thought that
00:23:10
cricket was going to be my life um I thought it was always going to be a really important part of my life but was
00:23:16
never going to be my life and I was just at that stage where got to the point where I was
00:23:22
accumulated a fair bit of baggage I think and it was starting to feel quite heavy what sort of baggage just being
00:23:28
around just traveling and touring for a long time I'd literally done everything
00:23:32
in the game um I think probably the only thing that was left was to beat Australia in a test
00:23:37
match and that that ambition remains to this day that never happened for me um and I think that's probably the only
00:23:46
thing that I didn't achieve outside of you know maybe winning a World Cup or
00:23:49
something which was a bit of a stretch goal back then I think we made the semis pretty consistently but we probably
00:23:55
weren't quite good enough to get there um that was kind of the only things that
00:24:00
sort of eluded me to be honest the rest of it I'd sort of done and I want to go
00:24:04
on and do different things at that stage um you know having a family and having a
00:24:08
normal life was quite appealing because I'd never done that yeah of course and I
00:24:12
was in that sort of no man's land where I sort of like well either I get out now
00:24:15
and then you know I I'm gonna have to start a career in business whatever I choose to do at the bottom again I have
00:24:22
to go pick up cones again that's how it works uh and if I don't do it now you know by
00:24:28
the time I'm then I'm sort of stuck here for another five years do I really want to do that and sort of
00:24:34
limiting my options in terms of being in a proper relationship and family and all
00:24:37
that stuff although it was a difficult decision it took me a few years to get my head around yeah it wasn't easy and I
00:24:42
I went early and I've never regretted it because what was what was the money like
00:24:47
through your 20s as a cricketer was there any money in the game or yeah I made I was making sort of 200 to 250 I
00:24:54
think um right through there which back then was a lot of money 200 250k yeah right
00:25:00
okay a sportsman back then yeah but I spent it all um it just goes I don't know where it goes
00:25:09
I had a really nice life but I certainly didn't retire from cricket and then I certainly wasn't
00:25:16
wealthy right yeah yeah and that was the other thing I was sort of like well I wouldn't mind having some money one day
00:25:21
and I'm probably not going to get there doing this um so it was a culmination of lots of
00:25:26
different things it took me a long time to get my head around it it was a difficult decision but one I've never
00:25:30
regretted but you um I mean you weren't an idiot though like you had a law degree you you studied for a law degree
00:25:36
while you're yeah I did two degrees I did finance and law so in county and finance first and then I did I did my
00:25:41
law degree on the road with the cricket team right um so yeah so you say you you know you
00:25:45
had to start at the bottom of any career pick out cones but I mean you were you were well educated what you're in a good
00:25:50
position but I was right you know I went to um I went to JB wear Goldman Sachs here in Auckland
00:25:56
um out of cricket and started off in the Private Client team um working for a guy called John Cobb um
00:26:03
and I literally made coffee mate um you know I would start it at the bottom I managed to survive two
00:26:10
restructurings at Goldman's but I knew I wasn't going to get through a third one
00:26:15
but if you're making a good coffee and you're being paid so little they're
00:26:18
probably like oh we didn't hear them on um there must be um that must be humbling hey like coming from of us
00:26:25
being on a pedestal on you know the world cricket stage and starting at the bottom somewhere else at that age yeah
00:26:31
and again I thought you know that was part of the ethos that was instilled Us in the cricket side and it was promoted
00:26:36
strongly by John Graham particularly was you know you've got a you know you might
00:26:41
be the best in the world but at midnight the clock resets and you get up the next
00:26:45
day and you want to be the best in the world again that's no problem you go do
00:26:48
it again yeah and you've got to do it every day you know your reputation counts for nothing you've got to get up
00:26:53
every day and do it again and everybody everybody starts from zero every morning
00:26:56
and I think that taught us a really strong work ethic and a sense of humility that you know we were young
00:27:04
guys right in our 20s and we had Egos and and I had plenty make no mistake about that
00:27:09
um my sort of I was trying to think about it yesterday when I was writing these questions and I suppose you were sort of
00:27:15
like the Carlos Spencer of cricket but you you just had a very flattering comparison
00:27:19
that you were just a precocious talent and you were good looking and young and you had this sort of arrogance about you
00:27:26
yeah um yeah I mean I look back on it now and it's it's just embarrassing right um but
00:27:32
yeah I think it is you know the wrong way but you were very good uh well I Had My Moments certainly
00:27:38
um but I think I look back at the way that I behaved on numerous occasions which was just immature right simple as
00:27:44
that um uh both right but but more so off field yeah um on field you know the rules for the
00:27:53
rules and you know you could pretty much do what you like and I I was always I was aggressive on on the field and and I
00:27:59
played my part right but I think a lot of this also is you know particularly in that
00:28:06
environment I I had a role to play and I took on this caricature which is not me
00:28:10
right uh I didn't know that at the time but I was obviously very combat of Highly aggressive
00:28:17
um and you know a bit of an enforcer on the field and that was kind of the role that I needed to play in the team
00:28:25
um and and I'm still now just starting to understand some of the stuff and deal
00:28:30
with it but you know like I don't get into conflict situations I don't I don't
00:28:35
have arguments with people I'm not aggressive and combative I'm a terrible
00:28:39
negotiator you know I mean I don't do that in our business um there's plenty of guys who are good
00:28:44
at that I don't because I just give them to people um which is exactly the opposite to what
00:28:49
I used to be so I took on this role in the team and I thought genuinely thought that's who I was
00:28:54
turns out I'm nothing like that right and I've learned that over the past 20
00:28:58
years if you think maybe you that that is who you were at the time and you've
00:29:03
just evolved and shaped and grown as a person between then absolutely yeah um and I think in the same way they kind of
00:29:09
grew out of cricket would be how I sort of described what my decision to retire at quite a young age I literally just
00:29:15
grew out of it um I think over the past 20 years I've probably sort of grown out of that you
00:29:21
know sort of Highly aggressive arrogant um um sort of persona that I had and I think a lot of it was insecurity you
00:29:30
know I didn't have I didn't have any experience I had Talent ability I had a
00:29:34
really strong work ethic those were my weapons um but I was playing against you know
00:29:39
what I did for a living when I particularly when I was batting high in the order was I just played against the
00:29:44
best players in the world who were all five ten years older than me had much more experience and it was now they look
00:29:50
back on it I never thought about it at the time it was just a mismatch you know like me going up when I was batting
00:29:56
three for New Zealand I was 25. um I wasn't even a specialist batsman um and all I did was face you know the
00:30:04
15 best Bowlers in in history that's all I did right I didn't face anybody else I
00:30:08
just face the best to sort of bridge that Gap you know I needed to find something and they're all
00:30:15
five years older than me right you know like when I was facing Wesley macro and Waco Eunice you know I was 25 they were
00:30:22
in their early 30s they were at the absolute Peak I was still learning the game um it's just a mismatch right and so for
00:30:30
me to be able to beat them and and compete against them I needed to find something to bridge the gap it was
00:30:35
arrogance it was probably that you probably need that to get you through what else have I got yeah yeah
00:30:42
um were you a sledger yeah were you you're right behind the wickets and that was part of my that was part of
00:30:51
my own sort of mental discipline like I I remember when when I started to lose concentration I would literally just
00:30:58
pick a scrap with someone to get myself focused you know I just literally walked
00:31:02
past and clocked the guy or something yeah um and then I used to do it deliberately
00:31:07
um and but that was part of me you know being able to maintain my levels of performance so was this the time before
00:31:13
there were like microphones on the stumps I don't have microphones but I used to I just used to put my phone yeah
00:31:20
yeah now I knew all the tricks right um yeah so speaking of like facing these these Bowlers there was um an incident I
00:31:26
found on YouTube uh from 2000 where Brett Lee the Aussie fast bowler hit you on there it was a crazy incident yeah so
00:31:32
you get hit on the helmet with like a bouncer and somehow undoes your chin strap and the helmet
00:31:39
falls off and hits the wickets and and you and you get out so that that's done
00:31:44
has done that incident but I I just want to know from someone that's never been
00:31:47
hit in the head with a cricket one of the woods clusters Bowlers like what's
00:31:51
this like are you yeah you stunned at that point oh yeah it's like a four-story building falling down on top
00:31:55
of it um yeah like yeah literally that one there just literally snapped the chin
00:32:00
strap um and I just remember my head just vibrating right literally seeing double
00:32:07
um I think it was Mark War who you know very graciously came up to right behind me and told me to [ __ ] off
00:32:17
and then pointed which way the stand was which was quite helpful because I had no
00:32:23
idea yeah wow you see the clip and it looks like you're aware of what's going on and
00:32:28
you're sort of standing on the ground but will you just by willing Dazed and
00:32:31
Confused yeah yeah do they do like concussion chicks or anything they didn't back then but I I definitely
00:32:36
ended up with a few sort of mild concussions no question about that um and plenty of cuts and scars like all
00:32:42
through my eyebrows and eyes you can sort of if you have a good close look there's Fair bit of work up there Oh I
00:32:47
thought they were Botox scales they're battle wounds um and what are your um Recollections or or thoughts of
00:32:54
like New Zealand Cricket in the 90s you know uh ego there was the wheat Were You
00:32:59
There When the weed incident happened I was on that tour but I actually wasn't
00:33:03
um I'd I'd left uh to go to do I was in Durban the rest of the team was in Cape Town I had I had a week off
00:33:11
yeah Dion Nash I think it was Flem nashy I don't want to get anybody else trouble
00:33:17
here who wasn't involved um but bygones it's such a lot of news a couple of
00:33:21
others I forget exactly who they were this was such a big thing at the time it was huge it was it was it was and
00:33:26
everybody just assumed I was involved yeah it's going to be perorian Ken's
00:33:32
must be there I wasn't even in the city right so I got tagged for that one but yeah no
00:33:39
I actually to be fair if I was there I probably would have been yeah yeah well um there's a great podcast that a couple
00:33:45
of friends of mine do called between two beers and I've had Dion Nash on and he
00:33:48
talked uh in length about that incident yeah and like the the backlash and the treatment for those three guys
00:33:53
afterwards it was just an alarm it like served legal papers just before playing a game like shortly after that back in
00:34:00
New Zealand I mean yeah it was all like I don't know how they had the resilience
00:34:05
or strength to get through it it seems like it was such a tough time for all three of them yeah I remember a little
00:34:10
bit about it um uh you just must have been relieved it wasn't no it was delighted
00:34:18
thank God for that thank God I wasn't there because I'm sorry you guys are
00:34:22
going through this but yeah if I had been there I'm sure I would have been right in the thick of it right um uh
00:34:27
because we were we were all mates right like if it was one in all and and that's
00:34:31
that was the ethos of it that was the culture um so yeah no I'm pretty sure I think I
00:34:37
deduct a bullet that time and um what are your um Reflections or memories of Martin Crowe I know he was
00:34:44
like quite a good friend and mentor of yours and you never got to be his dad in tennis he was very very good to me like
00:34:50
um on that first tour at England in in 99 and 89. um he sort of took me under my wing like I
00:34:59
was 19 I'm very young 19. the rest of the team was like a mature black caps team you know they're all well into
00:35:05
their mid-30s I played my first test with Sir Richard he was 40. um I didn't have a lot in common with
00:35:12
those guys right um and so I was sort of and I didn't drink um and in those days the culture was
00:35:18
very much around you know drinking so I just didn't fit in um and but Crowe took me under his wing
00:35:25
taught me how to play so he spent a lot of time in a Nets with me at the end of the game
00:35:29
um during the during the county games yeah he was like a senior player and you were like yeah he was the first Captain
00:35:34
I think and best player in the world yeah and um why did he do that just because he saw potential in there you
00:35:40
saw I think he saw a lot of himself in his early experiences in me and so he did whatever he could to mitigate it we
00:35:46
became very very close friends um over a number of years and you know we had our moments too I disagreed with
00:35:53
them on occasions and so we had a few blues and you know he'd get popular and
00:35:57
talk to me for three or four months is that right about what sort of things I can't remember the exact details of it
00:36:02
now but it was one of those sort of Big Brother little brother relationships very much where you know we could have a
00:36:08
genuine disagreement about things and he'd be you know severely pissed off and
00:36:11
not talk to me for a few months um and I'd know I was in dog box but eventually you know we'd sort of Patch
00:36:16
It Up um isn't that funny the passage of time isn't it funny so whatever it was it was
00:36:21
probably massive at the time but all these years passed and it just seems insignificant whatever it was yeah
00:36:26
absolutely but um you know I think and I look back very fondly with at those memories
00:36:32
um Mark great batch was another one who along with Martin spent a lot of time with me earlier in my career and was a
00:36:38
you know these guys are my heroes watching them on TV and all of a sudden I'm actually in the dress room sitting
00:36:44
right next to them and got to go play with them um it was a big stretch and then so to be included and made welcome
00:36:50
by those guys and to develop friendships Patty and I still mates to this day we play golf once or twice a year do you
00:36:57
really um I love that guys one of my favorite cricketers especially when he was Fielding he was just he was a big
00:37:02
guy but he was so Nimble in the field wasn't he yeah and aggressive and you know I just had that that epitome and I
00:37:07
wanted to be like them right I copied them um and so those friendships they last a
00:37:12
lifetime and they're still on foot now yeah Martin Chris no longer with us can
00:37:16
you remember your last interaction with them or the last time you saw him um yeah I can he came to my office just up
00:37:23
the road here on Freeman's Bay um and I came in and he towards the end he used to come in quite regularly
00:37:28
probably once every three or four months and when he was when he was sick yeah yeah when he was sick and he would just
00:37:34
come in and hang out with us Dion was sharing the office with me at that stage with his Triumph and disaster business
00:37:39
um and so we were there there are occasions when I think Kenzie was in there as well and Crowley would just
00:37:44
come in for a morning and hang out um and I remember you know that was sort of towards the end so that's probably my
00:37:51
most recent memories of them I think um yeah very sad that we lost them so early
00:37:56
still a sad day you know um I think I was in Bali earlier this year and um it was it was the anniversary of mountain
00:38:05
passing and I I messaged Patty just saying you know I'm feeling a bit sad that we lost our mate
00:38:10
um so the guy still felt we all still feel it it was a big loss for us yeah um yeah so who are you still mates with
00:38:17
Mark great [ __ ] obviously Dion Nash Tulsi Patty Dion and I three close um actually Dion uh Kenzie and Tomah and
00:38:25
I have a sort of a reasonably regular um Zoom call um that sort of hopefully fortnightly
00:38:31
but certainly once a month before us all get together and then I bang into a whole bunch of the other guys on
00:38:37
occasions we all end up in the celebrity golf tournaments to pack Trevor Franklin
00:38:41
Paddy Scotty styrus um all the golfers yeah so catch up with those guys a couple of times a year
00:38:48
that's normally pretty big night um and then the black Clash is great opportunity for us all to get together
00:38:53
the guys around we love that right yeah um that's really good fun so those friendships they last a lifetime
00:38:59
right they they really do yeah and I get the feeling from you you're um a fiercely um loyal sort of person you
00:39:05
know the sort of person that um I think I saw this on a lance arms you know Lance Armstrong the cyclist uh sort
00:39:11
of documentary with him and he talked about when a [ __ ] hits the fan you have people that lean in and people that lean
00:39:15
out I feel like you're a sort of person that leans in um were you were you leaning in leaning
00:39:21
out or just like standing straight when Kenzie's been going through his scandals
00:39:24
over the years oh definitely leading in um yes now I um I mean I probably won't talk about my
00:39:31
feelings around how all that went because it's a it's a really difficult
00:39:34
topic because I've got friends on both sides like very close friends um and yes I've got my own views on that
00:39:43
but also um you know Kenzie's been very good to a lot of us over the years right
00:39:49
um uh and I sort of yeah no you're right Dom like I'm fiercely loyal and I think
00:39:54
just because somebody makes a mistake um uh you know that doesn't sort of cancel
00:40:00
everything else out that's going on um and I think that that particular incident was very very challenging for
00:40:06
the for the black claps for the black um caps group um and you know I think it's been
00:40:12
pleasing to see that a bit of time and a little bit of water under the bridge has
00:40:15
softened what were some pretty intense feelings yeah and pretty difficult things for us all to deal with right
00:40:22
um it was not easy and you know trying to sort of be supportive of everybody that was involved was was not an easy
00:40:28
thing to do mate yeah but I think my my feelings to Christopher um have always been pretty clear you
00:40:37
know we had a great ride on his coattails all of us um and the view was pretty good so yeah
00:40:42
yeah he was an exceptional player I just knows you called him Christopher do you
00:40:46
call him Christopher no yeah I do on occasions yeah yeah on occasions it sounds like he's in trouble normally
00:40:54
all right let's play enough about the cricket um I'm mindful of the uh the
00:40:58
time we've got here with you today and there's uh it's been such a like a rich
00:41:02
tapestry of a life and there's so much to get through but um like there's the
00:41:06
business stuff the personal side of Edinburgh but the Everest stuff is something that I'm immensely interested
00:41:10
in so on May 20 20 2011 you um made it to the summit of Mount Everest and actually uh I had an interview with you
00:41:18
a few days after that I think back at base camp on my radio show one of the worst interviews ever your voice was
00:41:23
gone like you you had you had very little voice left but I I appreciated the opportunity to speak to you and actually
00:41:29
you're the first person and maybe the only person will ever have on the podcast that is Summit at Mount Everest
00:41:33
so where where did this come from so you finished Cricket spend a bit of time in
00:41:37
business you know how do you get into mountain climbing just a very strange um turn of events uh my brother-in-law
00:41:45
um just who I hadn't seen for about eight years just happened to turn out to
00:41:48
be a high altitude guide he was on his way to Everest gave me a call caught up with him having sort of lost touch with
00:41:53
them for quite a few years and um and then when he got back from Everest I think he guided um for hammocks in 2010
00:42:01
and so when Johnny um Johnny Davison when he got back from Everest he you know I didn't have much
00:42:08
to do that winter and he said why don't you come for a climb with me so we went
00:42:12
down to Queenstown and you know had a couple of nights um socializing and then sort of went up into the mountains and
00:42:18
he sort of 101 me we climbing the remarkables and went out to White Creek and did some ice climbing and you know
00:42:23
just did the you know the base so this is your first time with like crampons first time out um learned how to you
00:42:30
know run a tent and do all that sort of stuff in the snow and just kind of fell in love it um and then he sort of said
00:42:35
why don't you climb Everest with me next year and I said well I've always sort of
00:42:39
wanted to have you yeah had you in the back sort of but I was scared I was afraid like I remember when we were in
00:42:45
India we flew past it a couple of times uh on our way to guahati and it's above
00:42:50
you when you fly past right um yeah eight thousand something meters so pretty spectacular and um read all
00:42:57
the books you know Into Thin Air and all that sort of stuff so I was fascinated by it but obviously terrified which is
00:43:02
normal and then all of a sudden here was an opportunity and a bit of a pathway to
00:43:06
actually do it and I was separated from Sally at the time and single and sort of
00:43:13
in a bit of a no man's land and emotionally and quite a good place for that and so I decided I'd give it a
00:43:17
crack and so I climbed sort of semi professionally for about 18 months learning the ropes basically went to the
00:43:24
Himalaya previously in October of 2010 and climbed another of the 8 000 meter Peaks called manosloo and that got me
00:43:32
into the swing of the hermex program I got to meet Woody who's still my climbing partner to this day Russell
00:43:40
Bryce who runs hammocks and as a legend an icon particularly on Everest um you know he sort of Mr Everest and
00:43:47
got a got a bit of a view into the team and these guys are the best in the world
00:43:51
right so and I immediately felt quite comfortable in that environment a lot of it was very familiar the routine of it
00:43:58
was quite somewhat of being in a cricket team not scarily similar and I hadn't
00:44:03
been involved in that environment for 10 years at that stage like when I finished
00:44:07
playing sport I literally had nothing I literally walked out of the dressing room and it was like turning a light
00:44:13
switch off and I had nothing to do with anybody in cricket for 10 years like nothing was that necessary on your part
00:44:22
to have like sort of that sort of break or that sort of break up if you like yeah I'm not I'm not sure what that was
00:44:26
about but I looked back on it now and it looks to me like that was a bit of a trauma response
00:44:31
um and I'm still sort of trying to figure some of the stuff out Tom to be honest
00:44:36
because that's not normal right like there's not normal behavior such a big part of your life but maybe
00:44:42
you feel necessary to do that if you had any therapy or anything yeah oh yeah yeah and does this come up what
00:44:49
did they say about it some of the stuff that we're sort of trying to figure out
00:44:52
yeah he's still in the process I'm in the process so I did wait well I have
00:44:55
the once a week on a Wednesday 10 30. been doing it for two years 18 months seriously only started sort of when you
00:45:02
were 50-ish yeah yeah why did it take you so long was it nerves was it fair no I've always sort of um you know I've had
00:45:09
relationship counseling at various times over the years obviously um and then suddenly thought actually
00:45:14
because I always quite enjoyed it it's quite good to have a professional third
00:45:17
party adjudicator especially with that taking your side that's right well that's I mean that's
00:45:23
good I mean I've always sort of responded quite well to Authority like I pushed the boundaries a little bit but
00:45:28
when when somebody in Authority tells me what the rules are I quite like that yeah so you know you know like I'll go
00:45:34
all the way to the line but I respect so I found that sort of quite comfortable um and then a natural extension of it
00:45:42
was I'd go away and do some work on myself because I felt like I needed to um and this sort of stuff came up in
00:45:48
those sessions and it wasn't being brought up by Anna who looks after me but um it was stuff that I sort of
00:45:55
started to figure out about myself and I'd say to listen you know when I finished playing Cricket this is what
00:46:00
happened um and I remember saying to one he said that is not normal um so yeah we're starting to get into
00:46:07
all that stuff which is great right like trying to figure out you know the way that you behaved as a young man like
00:46:15
what the hell was that about um because it's quite different to the way I behave now yeah it's fantastic it
00:46:19
just gives you a new perspective and a new way of looking at things so I really like it anyway back to the Everest thing
00:46:23
so you how much does it cost to climb to get them with a good climbing group so like big money 50 Grand no no it's about
00:46:30
I reckon it's about a hundred um to go on those you know those five dollars premium guided Expeditions but
00:46:37
that gives you safety so it's the best weather forecasting it's the best guides
00:46:41
it's lots of Sherpas it's the best food um it's really the full you know the
00:46:47
super Platinum service you can do it a lot cheaper um I mean if I was going back to K2 I
00:46:53
could probably do that on 40 or 50 I reckon but I wouldn't be part of a guided Expedition I'd take Woody
00:47:00
um and we'd just build out our own infrastructure and we'd climb it without
00:47:04
a big group just the two of us would still have super support and all that but I think and now that I'm more
00:47:09
experienced I can do that um but also I've had plenty of time in these mountains you know climbing on my
00:47:17
own um I've had a few pretty interesting experiences doing that um so that's quite different yeah like
00:47:24
what what do you mean like like the scary calls yeah I've almost killed myself three times yeah yeah what does
00:47:31
that look like on a mountain uh on Everest the first time probably mansley was the first time
00:47:37
where you know we were pretty exposed at 8 000 meters um the night before and the wind changed
00:47:43
just you know the the just bit blue yeah um blew 100 miles an hour at four in the
00:47:49
morning which is pretty terrifying um you know I was that stage you're told to get dressed
00:47:55
um which is you know you're literally in the middle of nowhere a thousand meters
00:47:59
it's pitch black right um and also like why am I getting dressed now like because we might be outside soon um eyes
00:48:05
and the tents just flying away yeah oh my God you know get dressed okay um and it's noisy right like it's like
00:48:13
being on the side of 747 you're on a two-man tent which is you know sort of this whole tiny little dive and suddenly
00:48:19
it's flat right like it's literally hitting you in the face um so you're in the middle of all that
00:48:24
trying to get dressed which is not that easy to do your down suits and all the rest of it
00:48:29
um so that was sort of the first a sort of you know if it had blown another 20 30 miles an hour which I thought it was
00:48:35
going to you know you just get blown off the mountain right that's the end of it
00:48:39
um the wind stopped and we summited four hours later um but that was the first timer I
00:48:45
suddenly went hey do you know what I might be a bit buggered here and there's
00:48:48
nothing I can do about it out of your depth at the time you're thinking I suppose at the time you're just in the
00:48:54
moment and you're not don't think until afterwards like [ __ ] that was a close
00:48:58
call yeah I mean I got maniacally calm right like I just made my piece with it I was like well it's not up to you
00:49:03
anymore um that's part of it you think because you're good under pressure as well from
00:49:06
years as well I do tend to do that right it's the pressure ratchets up I I do get
00:49:11
maniacally calm I go the other way um which I think was why I was always pretty good Under Pressure playing
00:49:16
Cricket because that's my natural instinct I generally speaking don't freak out
00:49:21
um I tend to go the other way yeah naturally and that's been the case with the mountaineering as well
00:49:26
um Everest I got stuck in a massive collapse in the ice fall um which was just stupid what is it does
00:49:32
it mean you're walking along in the The Ice just disappears beneath you so we
00:49:36
were trying to sneak through it was after our first failed Summit attempt and there were three of us Woody David
00:49:41
Tate myself four of us and Adrian balance senior guide and we were trying to sneak through so we could get back to
00:49:48
base camp so we can get an extra days of rest because we knew the next weather window was six days away and we were in
00:49:53
the ice fall in the evening at six in the evening which is just stupidity right like there's an amateur mistake
00:49:58
and uh the ice just collapsed and when I say the ice collapsed an area literally
00:50:04
three meters behind me the size of a football field just disappeared like literally disappeared and the ice that
00:50:13
we were on just started moving like this like it was like being in Donkey Kong oh
00:50:17
my God and so my bit went up and David Tate was in front of me um he went down and his bit of ice block
00:50:25
of ice there about size of this room um about four meters by three meters they were and they all just started
00:50:32
moving David's one split in half and he fell over um so I thought he's gone and all I
00:50:38
could think of was just stay on your feet if you stay on your feet you're a chance so I'm literally surfing this one
00:50:43
boss really laugh about it now it's like holy [ __ ] and it moved probably I don't know four or five meters I
00:50:52
reckon with me on it um and so that was and then we saw the size of the collapse behind us and when I say
00:51:00
behind us like literally two meters behind us just disappeared right how far down did it drop oh
00:51:05
kilometer yeah it just vanished right gone um it took them three days to repair the
00:51:12
route after we got back put it that way it was a big collapse and the noise of it like you could hear it underneath it
00:51:18
was like a 747 starting up underneath you I never forget the sound um and we we survived we got lucky right
00:51:25
dead lucky so that yeah that wasn't um there wasn't human error or an altitude
00:51:30
problem no altitude sickness or stupidity these guys are the best climbers in the
00:51:35
world right yeah so stupidity that you could not have avoided stupidity that we just shouldn't have been in the icefall
00:51:41
at six o'clock at night okay everybody knows that right literally it's a it's a
00:51:45
it's a how did these guys let it happen because when you get under pressure you
00:51:49
make mistakes right right yeah we were trying we took a chance and with hindsight it's just a stupid era but
00:51:56
that's how the best Mountaineers in the world get killed right the mountain is
00:51:59
the same Mountain doesn't know you're an expert and you look at you look at all
00:52:04
the best climbers um they get killed by making amateur mistakes and it happens over and over and over
00:52:11
again all right well see at that point why do you keep going why don't you sudden your tent that night and go
00:52:18
actually this isn't for me is it because you'd come too far no I think at that stage you just
00:52:23
realize that you just made a mistake right it was just a stupid mistake and so part of what you do as a climber
00:52:29
um is you manage risk and that was just a poor decision simple as that it doesn't mean you're gonna make another
00:52:34
poor decision that's just count yourself lucky that you've survived it don't
00:52:38
don't do it don't do it again don't do it again right yeah so reassess your
00:52:42
risk parameters and you know just count yourself lucky yeah so then the um so the day you climb to the mountain you
00:52:48
you get out of bed at midnight or something and you start climbing yeah well no so that day actually starts at 7
00:52:54
300 meters at camp three so you're up at six so there's base camp then Camp one
00:52:59
Camp two kept three camp three is halfway up the lutzy face okay it's at 7 300
00:53:05
um what's the summit eight thousand eight eight forty eight okay so I like a
00:53:09
k and a half that's a fair way to go yeah it's a big day um so you get out of
00:53:12
your tent that morning you climb the loads you face and then you Traverse across
00:53:18
um uh and then you end up at um four which is 8 000 so that takes most of the day you get into Camp 4 at about
00:53:27
lunchtime rest for the afternoon and then you leave the summit at midnight that morning you're supposed to put your
00:53:34
oxygen on or we were supposed to put oxygen on it 7 300. I I get out and I'm
00:53:40
climbing the face reasonably well but I'm sort of a bit sluggish um uh there's a couple of the altitude
00:53:46
or well I thought it was just altitude right um there's a couple of guys who I
00:53:49
normally climb faster than we're sort of going past me which I thought was a bit
00:53:53
unusual I wasn't feeling my best but still felt okay hands were really cold and then I get to top of the late sea
00:54:00
face at 8 000 meters and I sort of thought better just check my oxygen and I'd forgotten to turn it on right
00:54:08
so that's a classic example of being hypoxic right like all of those signs the cold hands should have been an
00:54:14
absolute giveaway the fact that I was feeling a little bit sluggish and particularly when other guys are
00:54:19
climbing faster than you that should have said to me make check your oxygen but because I was hypoxic I didn't think
00:54:25
that my brain just wasn't working right so I climbed all the way to 8 000 with
00:54:29
no O's and then I went [ __ ] well that's quite good because you've got heaps more
00:54:34
than the others then I'm going [ __ ] if I arrive at Camp 4 with you know a heap of oxygen I'm
00:54:40
going to get told off um so I thought right I'll just crank it right up and burn it off right
00:54:47
so I did and I forget what the leader Edge was but I turned it to maximum mate I just turned into Superman right like I
00:54:56
was going Incredibles passing the Sherpas literally like it was unbelievable the difference so I got
00:55:02
into Camp four with a little more oxygen than I should have but sort of managed to get away with it but um the
00:55:08
difference between no-os and O's at altitude like different thing right completely remarkable and did you do you
00:55:15
pass is it just like an urban myth or do you pass like bodies encased in ice on the way oh no no that's all there that's
00:55:21
it yeah yeah that's a thing um and then there's uh uh what they call Rainbow
00:55:26
Valley which is at the bottom of the I think it's kangshan face which is climbers have fallen down there that's
00:55:31
the the down suits so you go over Rainbow Valley um how many bodies are we talking uh
00:55:37
depends on the snow conditions but when it's quite dry like our year was quite
00:55:41
dry not a lot of snow um I think we saw three or four um and also they're kind of like the
00:55:47
tracks sort of that wide right and it's yeah like half a meter say about a kilometer and a half straight down on
00:55:52
that side and then you know it's that side's China so um the the sort of the Jokers that you're
00:55:59
better off falling down the kangshong face because you'll live longer it's about two k's down on that side
00:56:06
I suppose you have to laugh about it don't you well the mountains have pretty
00:56:10
black humor right I suppose that's necessary yeah yeah it is it's sort of a
00:56:14
part of it and were you were you educated on what to do if you see someone on the way that's struggling and
00:56:19
yeah you're supposed to just walk past them well it's kind of every man for
00:56:22
himself right um it's sort of not really my ethos to be honest but there's pretty limited what
00:56:29
you can do right um yeah you know it really is hard getting yourself down um because hypoxia at I didn't really
00:56:38
notice it until I got sort of above the Hillary Step um but and certainly above the South
00:56:43
Summit which is about 8 600 meters I reckon and at that stage I was even with oxygen I was quite out of it and you get
00:56:51
clumsy like really clumsy um and normally my feet are pretty good but I was suddenly pretty sloppy with my
00:56:57
footwork you know it's a thing particularly right at that last little bit and there's not a lot of roommate
00:57:04
but literally the tracks this wide you've got you know big cornice on this side and over that is China and this
00:57:10
side you know it's just the that's the the I think it's the kingstrong face so
00:57:15
you get to the summit then why is it just a photo and then get the [ __ ] out of there no I was up there for about 20
00:57:20
minutes really doing what just hanging out with and having a look um and it was the weather was perfect
00:57:26
right so I was literally had my down suit all unzip doesn't t-shirt 6 a.m no
00:57:31
way yeah really yeah see I sort of imagined um okay so you can take your gloves off and take some photos and yeah
00:57:37
it was beautiful up there right there was no breath of wind um you can see literally you can see the
00:57:43
curvature of the earth you can see from Earth's flat mate well I can tell you
00:57:47
it's not I've seen it with my own eyes yeah exactly around well it sounds like
00:57:52
you've got a good day sky is sort of Bluey black because you're basically on
00:57:55
the edge of the atmosphere and where you had a crack a day um and then so I messed around up there
00:58:00
waited for a few of the other guys to catch up took some photos um and then I had this really strange
00:58:06
sensation it's probably one of the most powerful physical Sensations I've ever
00:58:10
felt which is you know we need to go down now and it was sort of quite yeah I'll never
00:58:16
forget how that felt it was like this is great we don't belong here we need to go
00:58:21
down um and so that yeah that was my time on the summit oh that sounds incredible yeah
00:58:27
yeah it was pretty cool experience what um what do you think means more like um climbing Everest or some of your Cricket
00:58:33
achievements like playing in New Zealand playing for New Zealand for the first time when you're a teenager of things
00:58:37
right really um yeah uh the cricket stuff was always something that you celebrated quite outwardly whereas the
00:58:43
mountaineering is very inward um but I never talk about it right ever that's why to be able to talk about it
00:58:49
with you is I enjoy it but it's just not something that I talk about why because
00:58:53
you're you're constantly looking forward sort of guy or I don't think so I think
00:58:57
it's just uh the experience is so personal and there's a lot of respect involved with the mountains and with
00:59:04
your teammates um you know on all of these Expeditions uh some people don't come home right on
00:59:10
all of them yeah and it's a risk it's a risk of everyone that goes so I think
00:59:13
you're very conscious of that and being very respectful to the people that that
00:59:17
are still in the mountains um and it's just it's a very inward personal sort of experience grants and
00:59:24
not something that I sort of really talk about not sure why it's just but I've
00:59:28
noticed over the years quite a different thing right but it's something that so
00:59:31
few people do so there must be so much curiosity around it I'm like I don't
00:59:34
bring it up obviously and um occasionally when it comes up I'm happy to talk about it but um it doesn't cut
00:59:40
honestly it doesn't come up much yeah so for that 20 minutes on the summit body
00:59:44
can you remember what you were thinking at the time I was buggered myself I was dead tired thinking holy [ __ ] that's
00:59:51
halfway I'm gonna get down oh is that right yes but is it easier going down low like that well it's just as
00:59:57
technical but it's It's Tricky yeah and it's really physically hard on your
01:00:02
knees and your feet um and also it's scary right going down is quite scary like tronic because you by definition
01:00:10
you're overtaking people you've got people coming up so you need to be on
01:00:13
and off the ropes all the time which is a bit precarious I didn't think about
01:00:17
that yeah right right yeah and some of them are well everybody going the other way you don't know who they are and some
01:00:23
of them are you know sort of more capable than others um so there's a lot of sort of there's a
01:00:29
lot of risk on the way down third party risk in terms of safely navigating your way down she's having you explain it
01:00:35
like that it's probably amazing the uh the death rate on the mental is not higher than what it is
01:00:41
there's a lot of people up there who have no right to be in there on Everest
01:00:45
particularly not not so much on K2 but even there there's a few that probably
01:00:48
shouldn't have been there so at what point do you do you realize I think I've
01:00:52
done it and I'm going to live um Camp four that you were talking about or yeah probably by that stage most the
01:01:00
significa yeah when you get down to Camp four you're kind of you're out of the
01:01:03
Worcester but I think yeah altitude are you feeling better with every step um like you genuinely feel stronger as
01:01:09
you descend like that is definitely a thing and then by the time you get to Camp four you're sort of through the
01:01:14
worst of it and it's you've got a bit of work to do still right so you're not
01:01:18
tobogganing down to base camping so I think for us I mean my timings and if you compare this to some of the the
01:01:26
tragic stories up there was we left the Summit AT 12. we were on the Summit AT 6am I was in
01:01:34
Camp four by nine am back at Camp 2 by lunchtime wow what a day yeah um and you compare this to some of the
01:01:44
stories where you've got guys who are still you know haven't even reached
01:01:47
South Summit at three in the afternoon right because they're in a line of line
01:01:51
of human trafficking fast enough or whatever um the cues the cues are in my opinion
01:01:56
very dangerous um and I'm surprised that there's not more issues around that yeah but we like
01:02:03
that night um so we climbed off the ropes there's a portion early on in the climb called the
01:02:08
triangle face just below the balcony and there was a big I've got photos of the
01:02:12
the lights up there the queue so we didn't we came off the ropes and free climbed the triangle face and literally
01:02:19
went past everybody and then we were first so we had no cues because we were first but still had to navigate
01:02:24
everybody coming back down um but I I mean the way that I typically do that is I will literally come off the
01:02:30
ropes and free climb right um is that advisable one it just depends on your own level of competence your own ability
01:02:37
but I for me I feel uh probably I feel safer um free climbing reasonably easy sections of the mountain as opposed to
01:02:47
being on the ropes which slows me down and then sort of introduces third party risk in terms of people going the other
01:02:52
way um and I but I always come from a I go light and fast um and try and get myself through danger
01:03:00
quickly as opposed to you know being completely safe but I back my ability to stay on my feet like oh I'm good on my
01:03:06
feet um yeah but that's a personal decision that everybody makes yeah wow what an accomplishment gee I just looked
01:03:11
at the time we've been going for an hour for you um promised me an hour of your
01:03:14
time are you in a hurry uh no no that's good Thomas keep going you enjoy it yeah
01:03:19
yeah I really appreciate you being here because um I said to you before you came
01:03:22
in I I searched your name on um podcast platforms and it's not something you do
01:03:27
a lot you're a relatively private and personal Guys these days you buy these
01:03:31
days which I'm guess is by choice yeah yeah so I sort of made that decision um 10 15 years ago yeah
01:03:37
um why is that you just have a guts full of being you were you were like um a tabloid fighter you you were in the
01:03:43
woman's weekly or Woman's Day or New Idea every other week yeah I just had
01:03:47
enough of being exposed to everybody and everybody having an opinion um and I did certainly feel the brunt of
01:03:55
the tall poppy syndrome which and I've sort of started to understand that a little bit more it's just a cute
01:04:02
name that we as new zealanders have dreamed up so we can bully people it's as simple as that and I think as
01:04:08
certainly as if when it's directed towards young people and typically they're Sports
01:04:12
people or high-profile entertainers or whatever it's quite destructive right
01:04:17
um and I was sort of in my era you know if you have a little bit of success you were told to just harden up
01:04:23
um which I don't think is particularly helpful for either young men or young
01:04:28
women absolutely no and you could also shrug and say oh it comes with the territory but that's another cop out you
01:04:33
know it's like actually no no I don't agree with that right yeah you know just
01:04:36
because you're good at playing tennis or you can sing well and you've had some
01:04:41
success commercially um that doesn't mean that people have got a right to line up and pull it out I
01:04:47
mean I just don't buy into that right it's just bullying it's terrible do you
01:04:51
think it's um still as bad here in New Zealand do you think it's got better or
01:04:54
is it much the same I don't know because I haven't had any personal experience of
01:04:57
it because I've been invisible for 15 years yeah and that's not by accident I
01:05:01
just got sick and tired of just people chipping me um so that's right it does
01:05:05
yeah yeah it does um uh so I just made a decision I would just take myself away from that and so
01:05:12
for the last certainly for the last decade you know if you don't actually know me you know I
01:05:18
could probably count on one hand a number of people that have had 30 minutes with me
01:05:21
um I just don't I just don't do that anymore yeah um yeah it's funny because
01:05:26
I had um Matthew Ridge on the podcast in the middle of last year and when when he
01:05:31
was at the peak of his Fame he had the ultimate um I don't give a [ __ ] attitude and um
01:05:36
we he was sitting in the same chair as well you are and we sat down and talked about this and and even he admitted at
01:05:41
[ __ ] stings yeah it hurts it feels like [ __ ] right now yeah yeah there's
01:05:46
Sticks and Stones saying that I was you you're about the same age as me you probably heard it as well my parents
01:05:50
taught me sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me but it's utter [ __ ] name calling does it
01:05:56
so you yeah so you um speaking of Matthew Rich so so he was married to Sally and then you you started seeing
01:06:03
Sally after that you got a couple of couple of kids together um how I remember watching the TV show
01:06:09
gamer two halves and there was your name would come up from time to time was that
01:06:13
a was that a friend Rusty time was Matthew and Sally like well and truly over and you guys were good uh
01:06:19
they were over Matthew was pretty protective of Jamie and bossy obviously right um and I didn't know Matthew Until
01:06:24
I Met Sally um and then obviously I got to know Matthew um and uh over the years we became best
01:06:31
mates he was very much like a big brother to me um like he'd give me a bit of a hard time but he sort of didn't put
01:06:37
up with anybody else doing it um was very very good to me also had a huge amount of respect from right like when I
01:06:47
was playing sport he was the pros Pro right he was the highest profile he was you know world-class the best at what he
01:06:55
did um you know maniacal trainer physically fit you know an elite in my view yeah
01:07:01
well you you were talking about how you were earning like two 200 250 a year he was he said he was on like 800 I was
01:07:06
using a million bucks a year right he was the first guy I knew was making a million bucks a year wow
01:07:12
um so so he was in a completely different level to all the rest of us um there was Reggie and then there was you
01:07:18
know three or four other guys and I think I was probably in that bracket in terms of profile yeah
01:07:22
um but he was Far and Away Beyond anybody that I saw um and deservedly so right um and so that was the basis of our
01:07:30
relationship um um and then we became great mates over the years um haven't seen them recently but I'm
01:07:37
looking forward to catching up with them in Europe in a couple of months well is
01:07:40
that right you'd see him when you're over there yeah well we've got um yeah
01:07:44
we've got the family event up in Europe later on this year we will all sort of
01:07:47
be together so it'll be nice yeah I I really enjoyed spending time with him he
01:07:50
seems like it's in a really good place quite a Zen dude these days he's bloody
01:07:54
hard case um we had so much fun together yeah um yeah no we had a lot of fun together
01:07:59
yeah so yeah so you and you and Sally when you were together you're on the cover of like women's magazines every
01:08:04
other week I'm guessing that's because um you you sold you sold magazines do
01:08:09
you yeah we did and that was Sally's business right so I used to just hold up
01:08:12
one side of the photo um but it sort of wasn't really my thing yeah and yeah we did so we sold pretty good
01:08:21
um but that's that was a different time you know um it just was what it was uh not the
01:08:27
case anymore and I think that's probably quite healthy yeah so and you so you
01:08:30
guys have got a couple of kids together how old are the kids aston's uh 19 McLean's 16. they're doing any sport or
01:08:36
anything or Aston plays tennis McLean plays hockey um like I never really pushed that yeah
01:08:41
I sort of thought if they wanted to play sport that's great but you know what
01:08:45
it's a pretty tough way to make a living um so I've sort of left them to their
01:08:49
own devices yeah and certainly they both played a little bit of cricket um sort of wasn't really their thing
01:08:56
which suited me because I didn't really want to sit around Saturday morning I didn't really want to watch cricket
01:09:04
for three hours on Sunday morning yeah she's a long game 95 of it which involves watching other other people's
01:09:10
kids play Give Up by your standards not super excited and obviously I had to coach and
01:09:19
that sort of doesn't sit that naturally with me so when they decided that you
01:09:22
know to play tennis and hockey I was delighted yeah so what happened with you guys you want to get into it or not
01:09:27
really is it just the pressure of like being such a high profile capital or Sally and I yeah um just run its course
01:09:34
yeah I think it just we were together eight to ten years yeah um and I just think that it wasn't the
01:09:40
perfect match obviously it just sort of ran its course um we were pretty ambitious and we took
01:09:45
it on a lot of projects I think that took its toll on the relationship um the friendship was there was no issue
01:09:51
there at all and it was a very constructive successful relationship yeah um unfortunately despite the the you know
01:10:00
we had a pretty rough period for about five years after it came to an end which was pretty difficult for everyone
01:10:05
um we've sort of put that back together again and Sally and I have sort of probably in the best place we've ever
01:10:10
been which is nice oh that's good great for the kids well yeah because you guys
01:10:13
actually sell his bloody good company mate is she yeah yeah you know I normally go there for dinner once a week
01:10:18
and um you know we get on like a house on fire um it's funny how that happens with AJ
01:10:23
like when yeah because yeah you said there was a tough time and yeah I remember this was splashed through the
01:10:28
papers as well like some court stuff that was going on when when you're in the thick of that the eye of that
01:10:32
tornado you must be thinking I can never sit down in the same room with this person again yeah well it was like that
01:10:37
right yeah we didn't talk to each other for a while and it was you know it was
01:10:41
pretty it was it was pretty sort of tough times for everybody um but we managed to with a bit of age
01:10:47
and a little bit of maturity we sort of managed to put it all back together again and it's um
01:10:52
it's yeah it's been great for the kids particularly yeah you know what they
01:10:55
really like is to you know just spend a bit of time with their mum and dad being
01:10:58
normal yeah yeah age wisdom the healing power of time as well I think it's a
01:11:03
little bit of humility and yeah swallow your pride a little bit goes a long way yeah leave your ego at the doors for
01:11:08
pretty um it's a pretty good start yeah so how are we married what do you mean
01:11:11
like eight years uh somewhere between eight and ten years I would say that's a
01:11:15
good Innings but you're a cricketer so you know that but I think for a marriage
01:11:18
it's it's like people change and evolve all the time don't you so yeah well you
01:11:22
do you do yeah certainly I do yeah so you've been married um twice married twice
01:11:28
um the second one was um to um a girl in her early 20s when you were when I was 40 so there's a pretty decent age Gap
01:11:36
that was fun but um yeah it sort of didn't didn't last the distance although
01:11:41
Miller and I were together probably five years um what happened there was it just the age
01:11:47
in the end oh sh yeah just the age I think and um Miller had Fair bit of living doing she need to get on and do
01:11:53
it which was probably quite obvious I think but um I mean we had a lot of fun together it was and we're still friends
01:11:59
to this day so that's nice well that must the fact that you're still you
01:12:03
still remain friends with these people even going back as uh to the the partner Kate that we're referenced at the very
01:12:08
beginning of the podcast I I mean you need to take some of the credit I think for those relationships yeah I think
01:12:13
there's always that period afterwards where there's sort of not a lot of
01:12:16
communication but I think you know if these relationships that are meaningful um it seems a bit of a waste just to let
01:12:22
them go right yes you know you have you have some great times obviously you have
01:12:27
some tough stuff as well but um I think as the passage of time sort of uh is pretty good for that sort of stuff it's
01:12:33
been my experience save what you can from the fire I guess yeah and I think also certainly in my case when things
01:12:38
get difficult for me um you know those people are very supportive and I think that well
01:12:44
hopefully that means that at some stage along the line you've done done some
01:12:47
good stuff yeah oh how cool yeah so the the age difference with you and your second wife Miller that's um almost
01:12:54
identical to the age Gap that I have at the moment with them with my partner Ash
01:12:57
we've been seeing each other for a year and it doesn't seem doesn't seem that
01:13:02
noticeable and uh you know how much was age involved with your with your split ultimately do you think I
01:13:10
don't think was necessarily the age I always sort of said to Miller that so long as one of us is acting your age
01:13:16
we're probably all right I feel like that was probably mostly you let me in my situation with my partner
01:13:23
Ash I feel like um she's the nanner in the relationship yeah um but I think it was just I think the
01:13:29
age Gap became a little bit more obvious and not so much in the fact that it was
01:13:33
a mismatch but more on the fact that Miller had a whole pile of stuff she needed to do that I'd already done
01:13:38
um you know and so she needed to go on and do that and it was as simple as that yeah that must be which was a bit
01:13:43
heartbreaking but you know it wasn't with hindsight not unexpected yeah and she's good now she's seeing someone else
01:13:50
or scratch she lives in Brisbane I think she's lived in Brisbane for five years
01:13:54
yeah she's in a relationship with some pretty good guy she's happy yeah that's
01:13:58
cool and your current partner who I can't think enough because she ended up teeing up this interview otherwise this
01:14:03
never would have happened um how long have you guys been seeing each other yeah just under a year yeah
01:14:08
yeah um and that was uh that was pretty unexpected I'd sort of kind of given it
01:14:13
away to be honest um I was looking at options in terms of living overseas um uh sort of got to 50 and sort of
01:14:21
thought we've sort of done this there's a big wide world out there I might as
01:14:24
well go get in it and as always Don when you're sort of at least looking for
01:14:28
something it had yeah um so that was a very pleasant surprise and we've had a great year together are
01:14:34
you one of these people that um you're quite lonely on your own are you okay on
01:14:37
your own no I like being online yeah I'm good yeah uh I I sort of thought that that was
01:14:42
going to be it for me to be honest I I look at these things sort of quite logically and I sort of went with you
01:14:48
know I've had you know three sort of pretty great love affairs that sounds like a lot
01:14:53
um over the course of my life it isn't really is it there might be another one
01:14:56
out there for me yeah but you know if that's the end of it we've had a red hot
01:15:01
go right yeah you wouldn't you wouldn't allow marriage again oh no definitely
01:15:05
not I love being married um yeah despite the fact that to date I haven't proved
01:15:10
to be very good at it I still enjoy it um I don't know so how long are they like so eight years with Sally along
01:15:15
with Miller uh five years with five years it's hard isn't it because you get you
01:15:19
get married and it's um yeah till death do us part and yeah forever and ever and
01:15:23
so anything less than that feels like a fail but I I don't know I think um if
01:15:28
you can if you can give it a red hot crack and end up like with salvaging something from the relationship at the
01:15:32
end of it I feel like that's a success in some ways yeah I think so and then
01:15:35
what there's one more in there that you've missed which is which is Danny
01:15:38
who um I'm separated from now A couple of years ago well no silly and Sally and I went
01:15:45
married okay right so Miller and Danny right who's where did Danny fit into the
01:15:49
bed show so Danny and I uh dated way back right early on and then didn't see
01:15:54
each other for 18 years wife and had our own lives and then sort of um reconnected after I got back from K2
01:16:00
in 2017. right married for a few years um and then separated um and so we've been separated almost two
01:16:08
years now I think um well that's a shame because after that sort of Gap and then reconnecting
01:16:12
you must feel like you sort of star-crossed lovers or soul mates or something like that that's meant to be
01:16:17
together right yeah well that was the thinking but I think um with hindsight you know the passage of time has not
01:16:24
always kind to these things and you know we had by that stage there were multiple
01:16:28
kids involved and you know it was complicated uh I think I think it was more complicated and more difficult than
01:16:34
either of us thought because obviously you know we had known each other for a long time
01:16:39
um we dated for five years I think the first time but it was literally a different time
01:16:44
and a different it was just the two of us so everything's kind of quite easy
01:16:48
we didn't have any real life pressures we didn't live together we just dated we
01:16:53
traveled a lot and we were young and that was quite easy and I think you know fast forward 18 years suddenly you know
01:17:02
Danny's got three kids to another marriage young kids all of a sudden get a whole pile of
01:17:07
complications and compromises and it was just it was just I think you know we both tried as hard as we could and gave
01:17:12
it our best shot but it was just you know difficult yeah and I think also you know that that's
01:17:18
life it is it is it's part of the rich tapestry [ __ ] you've been through some
01:17:23
stuff haven't you how's your how's your mental health been over the years
01:17:26
through all this stuff pretty pretty good it seemed like quite a resilient dude yeah I'm pretty
01:17:31
resilient but also um I go away and do the hard yards you know so in terms of working on yourself yeah
01:17:38
yeah um I try not to run away from the way that I'm feeling you know I try and sit
01:17:43
sit with it as much as I can which feels like [ __ ] mate you know you know you come out of these relationships
01:17:49
um and it takes you six to 12 months to get yourself back together again when I separated from Miller I literally
01:17:55
couldn't breathe for 12 months um how do you mean what do you mean I had terrible anxiety right
01:18:02
um uh and like I'd literally wake up in the morning gasping for breath um and
01:18:08
and with Donnie when we separated I had yeah terrible I get terrible anxiety um which is where the exercise comes
01:18:16
from so you know there's times where I actually can't sit I actually have to go
01:18:20
train yeah otherwise I just can't physically can't handle it um and I think that's if you'd said to me
01:18:28
when I was 25 years of age one day you'll get anxiety I would have gone [ __ ] off that'll never happen to me but
01:18:34
it has um and I you know over the years I'm learning to manage it but um you know I think at times I think all
01:18:43
of our mental health is not quite what it could be yeah and I'm no different
01:18:46
mate um and unfortunately that's just part of growing up right yeah yeah the older you get you realize no one's
01:18:53
no one's immune to it actually I think when you get older you sort of accumulate more emotional Scar Tissue
01:18:58
it's like getting dirty Gym gear and putting it in the bag and checking it under the car boot or whatever it's not
01:19:03
going to clean itself eventually you're gonna have to well you're going to deal
01:19:05
with it right yeah yeah you know like even now I get triggered things happen that trigger me and um when I was
01:19:11
younger I didn't I had no experiences so I was pretty bulletproof you know just
01:19:16
kind of managed to shrug my shoulders and roll through everything um but as life goes on and you have some
01:19:23
some experiences that are not so positive um you start to accumulate with a back
01:19:27
control and I think it's important to deal with it just do you think part of
01:19:31
that for you comes from like the the public vlogging that you've had over the
01:19:34
years uh not so much lately because I've been sort of pretty insulated from that for
01:19:40
10 or 15 years um and you know I've got a very tight group of friends so I'm not exposed to
01:19:45
it too much I'm not in the media um uh and on the odd occasion that I am it's never a great experience
01:19:51
um so I sort of try to minimize that as much as I can um so I don't feel that much anymore
01:19:57
um it's more just around dealing with my own personal issues yeah um around yeah
01:20:03
you know just relationships yeah predominantly so you exercise a lot you like you're in physically you're in
01:20:10
incredible shape you're looking amazing um so I'm not hitting on you by the way yeah
01:20:16
so so you do that um you're in therapy uh you got any other tricks or tips that
01:20:21
you do you do cold showers or saunas or journaling or anything uh uh no I do write a bit of a journal
01:20:28
um on occasions when I feel like it that sort of comes and goes yep um uh but typically I try to live pretty
01:20:35
well you know um and that's I eat well obviously exercise important for me in terms of my
01:20:40
own mental health um and I socialize I spend a lot of time with friends and family I enjoy that try
01:20:45
not to drink too much that's always a bit of a with something I'm conscious of um
01:20:51
because I don't think that's great for your mental health you definitely notice
01:20:54
it don't you yeah it is a depressant yeah um yeah uh so I try to I keep my eye on that um but also I like to
01:21:01
socialize you know and and in New Zealand you go out and you have a few beers where you or you have some white
01:21:07
um so I think being able to balance that's been really important and I think
01:21:10
that's probably a key word for me dimer's balance trying to find that balance
01:21:15
um when I was younger I was sort of you know all or nothing and I think over the
01:21:20
years I've learned to moderate that and I think I'm closer you know I'm 52 I'm
01:21:25
still not the finished article I've got a bit of work to do but I'm certainly I
01:21:29
think closer than I've been before yeah are you happy now like when you look in
01:21:33
the mirror is a 52 year old man you're happy with who you see looking back at
01:21:35
you yeah yeah I am I think um particularly last 12 months probably been as happy as I've ever been in my
01:21:41
life um and I've had times where I've looked in the mirror and I really didn't like
01:21:45
the guy who was looking back at me um and I can remember a couple of occasions where I've sort of looked at
01:21:50
him and gone who the [ __ ] are you and what have you done with my mate and that's been a bit of a wake-up call
01:21:56
um I think being able to you know being able to sort of turn that intuition on yourself and and critically
01:22:03
examine yourself and be honest with yourself is important really important particularly if you want to get better
01:22:09
um and I'm you know I'm I say to my kids listen I am a long way from perfect but
01:22:14
I do try you know I get up every day and I try to be better I think that counts for a lot yeah
01:22:20
absolutely it does I reckon you're a good dad and a good person still learning about the dead bit
01:22:27
I don't think anyone anyone that ever since then goes yep I've cracked it
01:22:32
there's no [ __ ] because they keep changing we all do that I think that's the
01:22:38
exciting thing I sort of as Matthew McConaughey made a speech it was like for the uh Oscars or something like that
01:22:42
and he was asked who was superheroers and he said it's super he was asked when
01:22:46
he was 25 and he said my superhero was me and 10 years I saw that speech yeah and then at 35 he was asked the same
01:22:51
thing and yeah I think that's a good way of looking at it it's a great way to
01:22:54
visit yourself in 10 years and isn't it exciting to think you had 52 you still
01:22:59
realize you're a work in progress and you're still getting better oh absolutely
01:23:02
um and I think um the benefit of age is you just you know you do if you're paying attention you you do pick up a
01:23:10
few tips along the way yeah life does or should get easier it doesn't get it
01:23:14
doesn't get easy but it should get easier and I think trying not to same mistake too many times is but helpful as
01:23:21
well I like that that's a good takeaway well and you're you're a lot you must be a
01:23:28
lot Kinder now to others and yourself than what you wear in your 20s oh absolutely yeah um I talk to people you
01:23:34
know um and I'm I was very self-conscious in my uh 20s particularly and I'm very much less so now
01:23:41
um I think I've maintained a sense of humor right the way through um I definitely don't take myself too
01:23:47
seriously anymore and I used to take myself very seriously and I don't really
01:23:51
do that much now and that's been a bit of a relief to be honest um yeah yeah life's definitely got
01:23:57
easier I think playing professional sport is a really difficult thing to do as a young person
01:24:02
in many many ways and I don't think it's very un very well understood um but it's a big task I got a lot of
01:24:09
respect for young people who take that on and succeed it's it's not easy to do
01:24:12
yeah hey well look I I can't thank you enough as I said before you you don't
01:24:17
you are notoriously private these days you don't do a lot of these stuff and I
01:24:21
feel like you've been really unguarded today and uh even like in the last 10 or
01:24:26
15 minutes showing some real vulnerability and I don't know if that's easy for you to do or it's getting
01:24:31
easier yeah and actually that word it's interesting the vulnerability would because that comes up a lot with me
01:24:38
um uh I never heard that word in my 20s and 30s like nobody was talking about it
01:24:43
right and I think society's changed like the word never got said it just never
01:24:48
got set we're swimming in the same sort of waters at that age and it's like in
01:24:54
you'd never show any sort of weakness because it could be weaponized against
01:24:57
you yeah it was the last thing you did yeah whereas I think Society has changed now and I think you know particularly as
01:25:03
men and young men being vulnerable has seen rightly as as a symbol of strength not not weakness
01:25:11
um and when I was in my early 20s vulnerability was weakness and I think you know our culture around
01:25:17
that stuff has changed for the better and you know aston's 19 and he's he's
01:25:22
sort of starting to learn about some of this stuff now and I just it's a much
01:25:25
it's a much more constructive environment for young people these days I think which is nice to be a part of
01:25:30
absolutely when was the last time you cried you cry much regularly do you um yeah how good you
01:25:37
love it it's good enough I love it um yeah yeah a week ago probably right yeah can you read what it was about what
01:25:47
you don't want to say if you don't want to say that's all right uh yeah no I can
01:25:50
remember what it's about because it was um you know I was just having a bit of a
01:25:54
moment remembering one of my friends yeah yeah that's normally particularly when I think back on memories and people
01:26:00
that have been close to me often you know that I am quite emotional and very soft underneath
01:26:06
which has taken me a few years to sort of start to understand but um that's who
01:26:11
I am right yeah I mean I'm much the same this but there's probably a period where
01:26:15
I went for like 15 years without crying at all yeah and um now yeah I've got
01:26:19
yeah I I love it I love having it I think it's quite healthy yeah it is it is I I can quite just like dwelling and
01:26:26
thinking about happy stuff for more than a moment yeah yeah and I find it quite easy and then as I said it's a regular
01:26:31
for me um yeah yeah no idea and I've sort of I used to try and push it away but not So
01:26:38
Much Anymore yeah oh good for you oh you're a kind man and um I I was probably much the same with with as you
01:26:46
with my radio career like during my 20s all I wanted to be was a [ __ ] Savage yeah and now if some if someone says to
01:26:52
me are you you're a kind person I I take that as the ultimate compliment I think
01:26:55
yeah that's a very nice compliment I mean I certainly I had my walls up you know that was that was a thing and
01:27:01
learning how to sort of drop those down and keep them down has been good for me yeah yeah I mean life's hard for
01:27:06
everyone if we can all do our bit to make it a bit easier for someone else I think that's a good thing absolutely
01:27:10
anyway an hour and a half of your time after you promised me an hour um thank you so much I hope you don't
01:27:15
regret um opening up for the first time in 10 years enjoyed it Don it's been such a
01:27:19
pleasure thanks for having me yeah thanks so much Adam you're a great New Zealander thanks
01:27:23
[Music] thank you