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From Manslaughter to Māori Farmer of the Year: The Incredible Story Of Ben Purua

July 30, 2025 / 01:51:53

This episode features Ben Padua discussing his journey from a troubled childhood in Pukekohe to becoming a successful dairy farmer and family man. Key topics include his early life, gang involvement, struggles with education, and a pivotal incident that led to his incarceration for manslaughter. Ben shares his experiences in juvenile detention, the challenges of reintegration into society, and his commitment to personal growth.

Ben reflects on his upbringing, describing a chaotic environment influenced by gang culture and family dysfunction. He recounts the moment he first encountered his father and the impact of his father's absence on his life. The conversation touches on his early exposure to drugs and alcohol, leading to a series of poor choices, including a tragic incident involving a car theft that resulted in a man's death.

After serving time, Ben discusses the difficulties of finding employment due to his criminal record and the support he received from his wife, Nikki, and various mentors in the farming community. He emphasizes the importance of forgiveness, both from the victim's family and himself, as he works to build a better life for his family.

Ben also highlights his recent achievements, including winning awards in the farming industry and launching a clothing line aimed at helping families in need. He expresses a desire to create opportunities for others who have faced similar challenges and to inspire the next generation.

The episode concludes with Ben offering advice to those struggling with their own challenges, encouraging them to seek help and believe in their potential for change.

TL;DR

Ben Padua shares his journey from gang involvement and incarceration to becoming a successful dairy farmer and advocate for change.

Episode

1:51:53

00:00:05

Ben Padua, welcome to my podcast.

00:00:08

>> Yeah, thanks Dom. We were just um you,

00:00:11

by the way, you you bought me a gift.

00:00:12

You bought me a crayfish, which is

00:00:14

wonderful. And uh it's freshly caught.

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>> Yeah. So, we went out diving uh late

00:00:19

last night and we got out of the water

00:00:21

maybe just after midnight. Um yeah, got

00:00:24

our limit of craze and got a few kina

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for another um actually content creator

00:00:30

that's up here in Tamaki. Uh so yeah,

00:00:33

he's going to be doing something with uh

00:00:36

is it

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um the rugby from USA. So right

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>> who's the content creator?

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>> Uh Louis Davis.

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>> I've had him on the podcast as well.

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>> Oh yes. Yes.

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>> Make him He's always in the ocean. Get

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him Make him get his own crayfish.

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>> Yeah. Oh, he was in he was in Tamaki and

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then he put a post up um any any divers

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that can get some some ka or one can

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anyways. Um so yeah.

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>> Amazing. And you while you went to the

00:01:06

car to get the crayfish, um your wife

00:01:08

Nikki told me that you're real nervous.

00:01:10

She said she's never seen you this

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nervous. She said you were nervous

00:01:13

yesterday about doing the podcast.

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>> Yeah. Um

00:01:16

>> what's up?

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>> I don't know. I just I just think this

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is a big deal, bro. Um,

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>> she told also told me you didn't even

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know who I was.

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>> I Yeah, I heard of you on on radio and

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stuff like that. But yeah, um I don't

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know, just seen some of the names that

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you've interviewed over the over the

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time and yeah, I think that this is a

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pretty pretty big deal and you know, I'm

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pretty honored to be honest.

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>> Oh man. Well, I'm honored to have you

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here as well.

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>> So, first up, um, who is Ben Padua?

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Um, so

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I was born and bread in Puko. Um, yeah,

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just born on the dark side and grew up

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over there. Um,

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yeah, currently a dairy farmer in the

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South Wat

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um family man. So, got my beautiful wife

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who's here with me today and got three

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girls. uh my my daughter Sam who's 3

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years old and our two older girls who

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are currently up here in in Oakland uh

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studying at university. So yeah.

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>> Awesome. You seem happy and content.

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>> Yeah, life is is pretty good at the

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moment. It's pretty hectic, but

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>> yeah, I I think if it if it wasn't, I'll

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probably be getting myself in trouble.

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>> Did you like say say 20 years ago, did

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you ever imagine life could be as good

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as what it is now?

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>> Oh, no way. No way. Um, yeah. So,

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oh, never thought that I would be here,

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>> to be honest.

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>> Let's go back. Um, yeah. So, how old are

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you now?

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>> Um, 30,

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>> right?

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>> Yeah. 30.

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>> Didn't you win Young Farmer? You're not

00:03:02

that young.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Um, so the the cut off date is 31 for

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young for young, bro. So, I'm still in

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the bracket at the moment. just just

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lived

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>> so 30 now. Okay. So, um paint a picture

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of those um yeah early years in Pokoi.

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>> M

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um so yeah grew up in in dysfunction

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surrounded um and born into into the

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gangs and stuff like that. Um but you

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know what

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Faro was was awesome, bro. Um I my mom,

00:03:38

you know, even though she had her

00:03:40

struggles, you know, she really done

00:03:42

what she could uh in in the upbringing.

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Um you know, to try and provide for for

00:03:48

us, she was she was on her own and she

00:03:51

had all of all of well myself and and my

00:03:54

siblings to try and put Kai on the

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table. So she was she was pretty hard

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worker.

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>> Um

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>> how many siblings?

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>> So

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nine of us.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Yeah. in total. Um, but you know, all of

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us were sort of I never knew my my older

00:04:10

brother until he was 14, 15.

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>> Yeah. Is when I sort of met my older

00:04:15

brother for the first time. Um, he lived

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with our our biological father. And

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yeah, I grew up with my mom, my older

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sister, and and my younger siblings. And

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yeah, so my sister, yeah, she

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she done a lot of mahi while with with

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us siblings anyway when mom was at work

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and stuff like that. So

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>> did you do you have a relationship with

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your dad or much of a relationship?

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>> Not at all. I didn't know my father

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growing up.

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>> Uh he left before I was born and

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I've actually got another brother, a

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half brother, and we were both the same

00:04:53

age. So

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>> yeah, put two and two together. He

00:04:57

jumped the fence.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Um and yeah, so

00:05:03

yeah, never knew my dad um until four or

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five years ago.

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>> Yeah. I sort of went on this journey of

00:05:12

self-discovery and you know that was

00:05:14

sort of missing link for me

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>> and you know I heard all the stories

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sort of about my dad growing up you know

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that he was a bad man and stuff like

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that and he was horrible etc and you

00:05:26

know I

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that was the only picture I could paint

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of him and I wanted to know him myself

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so when I was old enough and yeah with

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the help of my wife actually um was able

00:05:39

to find him in Fang Hospital and I sort

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of documented it on on YouTube. Um,

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meeting him for the very first time and

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yeah, he wasn't in a good good way. He

00:05:52

had heart conditions and and stuff like

00:05:54

that. Um, he just finished having a

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stint put in and and whatnot and yeah,

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so unfortunately that was the last time

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I got to meet him. Um,

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oh no, actually there's one more time

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after that at the hospital and yeah,

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that was pretty much it after after

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that. Um, he ended up passing away not

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long after. So

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>> you mentioned before um the gang

00:06:23

involvement and stuff. So was was your

00:06:24

mom connected to the gangs or was she

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just seeing gang members or

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>> um so my whole far I so my whole family

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all all in in the gangs and

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yeah like my uncles and all all my role

00:06:40

models growing up uh were were all in

00:06:43

the gangs and then had my stepdad uh who

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pretty much brought brought me up. He he

00:06:50

was in the in the black pal as well.

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>> Uh who my mom was was with. And yeah, I

00:06:57

seen a whole lot of

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ugly stuff. But you know, on the other

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hand, also seen

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um I guess

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yeah, some love. Um

00:07:12

>> what sort of ugly stuff?

00:07:14

um like the the the drugs, the alcohol,

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the party life, um the domestic violence

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and stuff like that, family violence,

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all all that sort of ugliness. Um

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you know, when that stuff wasn't around,

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it was actually pretty good.

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>> Yeah.

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>> When when the when the drugs and all

00:07:37

that weren't in the picture and alcohol,

00:07:39

for sure.

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>> Alcohol was probably the bigger one. Um,

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yeah. So, when those things went in in

00:07:46

the picture, things were actually, you

00:07:48

know, pretty good.

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>> It's it's a rough start, eh?

00:07:53

>> Yeah, it is.

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>> You're on the back foot immediately.

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>> Yeah. And when you grow up in that

00:07:58

environment, you just think it's normal.

00:07:59

>> Well, it's all you know.

00:08:01

>> Yeah. So, that's all

00:08:03

>> that's all I pretty much knew growing

00:08:05

up. And I was sort of I had some some

00:08:08

good memories in my upbringing as well,

00:08:12

especially with my uncle um as gang

00:08:16

member and stuff like that uh for my 8th

00:08:19

birthday come pick me up from school

00:08:20

with some of my mates and took us out to

00:08:23

KFC, you know. So those are some of my

00:08:25

sort of earlier memories um of some of

00:08:28

my role models, you know. So,

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>> it's funny that that st stand stands out

00:08:36

cuz um you know being picked up from

00:08:38

school and going to KFC you know I

00:08:41

suppose if you've had like a like a I

00:08:43

don't know like a privileged upbringing

00:08:45

like me that's just one of those things

00:08:46

that you may not even remember but for

00:08:48

you it's a foundational memory.

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>> Yeah, I remember it quite vividly like

00:08:52

Yeah. Like always used to deal.

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>> Yeah.

00:08:55

>> Yeah. Um and you know like poverty is is

00:09:00

a massive thing you know

00:09:02

>> and that brings so much dysfunction with

00:09:04

it e so yeah when I got that that day I

00:09:09

felt like I was on top of the world to

00:09:11

be honest

00:09:14

got to go to KFC and my uncle took me to

00:09:17

the $2 shop and stuff like that and then

00:09:19

um yeah got to grab me a few few toys

00:09:22

and I think I got me a gun little toy a

00:09:25

gun and and whatnot and went back to

00:09:27

school.

00:09:28

>> Were Were you Were you um Were you a

00:09:30

good kid?

00:09:31

>> Oh, [ __ ] I probably couldn't probably

00:09:34

not

00:09:37

probably not to be honest. Um yeah, I

00:09:40

was

00:09:43

bit selective here.

00:09:45

>> I think a lot of kids like that. But did

00:09:47

did you know did you know right from

00:09:49

wrong?

00:09:50

>> Um

00:09:52

I knew what I knew. M

00:09:53

>> hey I that's all I knew. I didn't really

00:09:57

know whether it was right or wrong.

00:09:59

Whatever that I was doing I was doing

00:10:01

cuz I seen it.

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>> Um and yeah I guess you become a product

00:10:06

of of the environment that you're in. So

00:10:09

you know whatever that you see you end

00:10:11

up becoming that. So

00:10:14

>> when did you start going off the rails?

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>> Not when you getting in trouble at at

00:10:18

primary school or anything. I actually

00:10:19

struggled at school. Um

00:10:22

>> learning or

00:10:22

>> Yeah, I I struggled with learning cuz I

00:10:25

couldn't read or write. Um

00:10:28

so yeah, school for me was real

00:10:30

difficult

00:10:31

>> and I I felt like I

00:10:34

become the class clown so that people

00:10:38

didn't know that I had a reading

00:10:41

disability or learning disability or

00:10:43

anything like that. So I just played up

00:10:46

um and sort of played it off, you know.

00:10:49

So

00:10:50

>> yeah, I didn't get people didn't get

00:10:53

smart or anything.

00:10:55

>> Yeah.

00:10:56

>> You get in trouble at school. Class

00:10:58

class clown is um you generally a

00:11:00

pathway to trouble.

00:11:02

>> Yeah. Um I got suspended and expelled

00:11:05

from from school.

00:11:06

>> Yeah.

00:11:07

>> What for?

00:11:08

>> Fighting.

00:11:09

>> Yeah. For fighting. And so got expelled

00:11:12

from Narawaha High School uh for

00:11:15

fighting and cuz from Puki mom moved us

00:11:20

down to the Watau uh to Naraja and I

00:11:24

went to went to school there. It was

00:11:26

cool. Um made some really good friends

00:11:29

there but yeah just struggled e

00:11:34

>> especially when you can't read or write

00:11:36

it's real hard. Math math was probably

00:11:38

my best subject to be honest. I knew how

00:11:40

to count. And

00:11:42

>> can Can you read all right now?

00:11:44

>> I can now. I probably learned about five

00:11:46

years ago.

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>> Unreal. Really?

00:11:49

>> Yeah.

00:11:49

>> How hard is it? I can't imagine like

00:11:51

learning to do that stuff as um like a

00:11:53

grown ass man in your 20s.

00:11:54

>> Yeah. So, oh, I was fortunate enough

00:11:57

through um the primary itto stuff which

00:12:00

is course to do with uh dairy farming

00:12:03

and and farming and through that I was

00:12:05

able to get some support. Um, so they

00:12:08

were able to get me like a laptop and

00:12:10

and a tutor and and stuff like that. Um,

00:12:12

they helped me learn to read and write.

00:12:16

Uh, which was which was crazy. And and I

00:12:18

was going to course one day and and the

00:12:20

teacher was like, "Oh, can you read this

00:12:22

paragraph out?" I was like, "Um,

00:12:27

no, I can't." She was like, "What? It's

00:12:31

just that little paragraph. Can you just

00:12:32

read it out, please?" It's like, oh, I

00:12:34

can't do it. was like, "Yeah." And then

00:12:37

>> is that humiliating or

00:12:39

>> It was um you know, it was quite hard.

00:12:42

Uh and then from that moment she was

00:12:45

like, "No, we can get you help." Like if

00:12:47

you really want help, we we'll get it

00:12:49

for you.

00:12:50

>> And so, yeah, the my tutor and also my

00:12:53

um training advisor at that time, yeah,

00:12:56

put in the work and got me the support

00:12:58

that I needed to start my journey of

00:13:01

learning to read and write. And yeah,

00:13:03

now I can I can read.

00:13:05

>> Good for you. Have you read a book?

00:13:07

>> Um I haven't read a whole book.

00:13:12

>> Um yeah, my

00:13:13

>> You can though. You can read a book.

00:13:15

>> I can.

00:13:15

>> Yeah.

00:13:16

>> Awesome.

00:13:17

>> And sure, that's cool.

00:13:19

>> Uh yeah, probably on on the path of

00:13:22

actually writing my own.

00:13:24

>> No way.

00:13:25

>> Yeah.

00:13:26

>> Excellent. Well, I'll be the first to

00:13:27

buy a copy. So,

00:13:29

>> yeah. Um,

00:13:32

so when you go to school,

00:13:35

so so all you know is um the household

00:13:37

that you're brought up in, but then you

00:13:39

go to school, you meet other kids, you

00:13:40

have friends, you go to their houses.

00:13:43

>> Is that is that um

00:13:47

for you? Like is that sort of a moment

00:13:48

where you realize, okay, my household's

00:13:50

not normal, this is normal?

00:13:53

>> Yeah, I I've shared this before actually

00:13:56

and you know I

00:14:00

I was about maybe around seven eight

00:14:02

somewhere there and I got the first got

00:14:05

my first opportunity to go stay at a

00:14:07

mate's house and yeah we went there and

00:14:11

um was a sleepover

00:14:15

and yeah I got to see a whole new world

00:14:18

e so his dad was a was a police officer

00:14:21

his mom was a hard worker and real

00:14:23

loving family and you know I was friends

00:14:26

with with him and his and his brother.

00:14:28

We all went to school together and yeah,

00:14:31

I just got to see a whole different

00:14:32

picture to to what I seen in in our

00:14:34

household. Uh which was a whole lot of

00:14:37

love and and um

00:14:40

I guess a present father, you know, and

00:14:43

I actually felt jealous of it. I felt

00:14:46

envious about that. um to the point

00:14:49

where you know I sort of started hating

00:14:52

on my mate and um yeah got off to some

00:14:56

dumb [ __ ] and ended up um

00:15:00

yeah doing

00:15:03

I guess wrong by by them

00:15:05

>> what what did you do? What's the dumb

00:15:07

[ __ ]

00:15:07

>> Uh so I ended up robbing their house

00:15:10

because I felt jealous of that

00:15:12

relationship that he had with his father

00:15:14

because I I didn't have it. Um, yeah,

00:15:18

>> that's heartbreaking.

00:15:19

>> Yeah. So, I I always wanted a wanted a

00:15:22

father.

00:15:24

>> I always wanted a dad. And when I seen

00:15:26

that, so the situation that I seen was

00:15:29

it was bedtime. And the dad come in the

00:15:32

room. And he goes, "Oh, good night,

00:15:34

boys. Love you, son." That that moment

00:15:37

hit me, bro. Hit me. I was like, "What

00:15:43

is this? I've never ever heard that

00:15:46

before from a man. Um, and yeah,

00:15:51

it it hit home and I I got real thing

00:15:54

about it and yeah, sort of got jealous

00:15:56

and that led to to to that situation.

00:16:03

I'm getting emotional hearing that,

00:16:05

>> man. That's that's rough.

00:16:11

>> Sorry, mate.

00:16:12

>> Yeah. No, that's really that's really

00:16:14

rough. And I can I can tell it's hard. I

00:16:16

can tell you you feel shame like telling

00:16:18

the story. Like

00:16:19

>> it's not an easy story for you to share

00:16:21

now, is it?

00:16:21

>> No. And like I feel [ __ ] for doing that

00:16:25

to them. But

00:16:26

>> like in that moment,

00:16:28

>> [ __ ] I was just feeling all this

00:16:30

ugliness and and that was my reaction to

00:16:33

it, you know?

00:16:34

>> And I

00:16:37

I end up getting punished for that. So

00:16:39

yeah.

00:16:39

>> And did you buy who? Oh, so either

00:16:43

calling my mom and and whatnot and she

00:16:45

was like, "No, cool. I'm getting him

00:16:47

down there and he can come and clean

00:16:49

your house and and whatnot and yeah, so

00:16:53

had to pay it all back and and whatnot."

00:16:55

But you know, that was the situation

00:16:57

that I put myself in. Um, but yeah, that

00:17:00

was through that whole thing around

00:17:02

jealousy and rejection. You know,

00:17:04

rejection was was huge.

00:17:06

>> Yeah. M

00:17:08

>> when uh was your introduction to like

00:17:10

drugs and alcohol?

00:17:13

>> My first

00:17:15

my first taste of marijuana was I was

00:17:19

seven, eight. Yeah, I was about seven or

00:17:22

eight. Um

00:17:23

>> where's that? Did you steal it or was it

00:17:24

given to you or?

00:17:25

>> No. So

00:17:28

there's this time where all my cousins

00:17:30

in there, we all stayed in the same

00:17:31

house. Um but it was there was so many

00:17:34

of us all in this one and yeah one of my

00:17:39

cousins gave me a spot just a

00:17:41

>> How old was your cousin?

00:17:43

>> He would have been like 15 16 or

00:17:45

something like that.

00:17:46

>> That is so wrong.

00:17:47

>> Yeah. And I would have been like seven

00:17:49

or eight and they were they were having

00:17:52

a sesh and I was just there. Is your

00:17:55

one? I was like yeah whatever. Had one.

00:17:58

I was smashed.

00:18:00

I was smashed. I ended up eating a whole

00:18:03

tub of peanut butter after that.

00:18:07

Oh, and um anyway, my mom come home that

00:18:11

night and yeah, she

00:18:14

she didn't know. Um yeah, I was I was

00:18:18

smashed.

00:18:19

>> Was um was an enjoyable experience or

00:18:21

was it frightening? Like I'm I'm just

00:18:23

thinking like I'm probably projecting

00:18:25

here, but if I was seven or eight and I

00:18:27

was intoxicated,

00:18:28

>> I think it'd be quite a scary feeling

00:18:29

for me.

00:18:31

It it was out of it. Yeah. Um but I

00:18:36

think the scary thing for me was when my

00:18:39

mom come home and I was stay.

00:18:41

So I was trying to pretend that I was

00:18:43

asleep.

00:18:44

>> But yeah.

00:18:46

>> So there there was some like love and

00:18:48

discipline in your household from your

00:18:49

mom. Eh.

00:18:50

>> Yeah. She you know she she done the best

00:18:53

she could man with with the situation

00:18:55

that she had. I say that I say people

00:18:58

generally do the best they can with the

00:19:00

resources and tools they've got at the

00:19:01

time.

00:19:02

>> Yeah, that's right.

00:19:02

>> And the thing is like you're um you're a

00:19:04

good dad, but you you'll be doing things

00:19:06

right now that that'll [ __ ] your kids up

00:19:07

and they'll be angry with you one day.

00:19:09

>> Yeah, for sure.

00:19:09

>> And then they'll have kids and it's the

00:19:11

same sort of thing, but you just do the

00:19:12

best you can.

00:19:13

>> Yeah. And um you know, she she was

00:19:17

loving. She is loving.

00:19:19

>> Um and yeah, she was a hard worker. Real

00:19:23

hard worker. always at mahi um to try

00:19:25

and put Kai on the table. You know, I

00:19:28

remember having to talk to my mom and

00:19:30

that's what she thought love was. Just

00:19:31

making sure that we had Kai in our

00:19:33

stomach

00:19:34

>> and a roof over our head.

00:19:35

>> Um you know, not actually realizing that

00:19:39

I love you was was, you know, heaps as

00:19:42

well.

00:19:44

>> Did she never sort of say that?

00:19:46

>> Not when I was growing up. I don't think

00:19:49

maybe a few times, but now Yeah. She

00:19:53

says it quite a lot.

00:19:54

>> Yeah,

00:19:57

>> that's that's really sad.

00:20:00

>> It's um but you know starting to hear

00:20:03

about her journey

00:20:05

>> and how she grew up like Yeah.

00:20:09

Um,

00:20:10

I would love to actually hear a lot more

00:20:12

about my mom's journey to be honest cuz

00:20:15

you know we grow up and become adults

00:20:17

and you know our parents or my mom for

00:20:20

example she just done everything to get

00:20:23

us you know to here and then we don't

00:20:26

actually know what she went through you

00:20:27

know so

00:20:28

>> I would actually love to know more about

00:20:30

my mom's story and

00:20:32

>> you know yeah

00:20:34

>> well it's not too late eh

00:20:35

>> no it's never too late um you M yeah

00:20:41

just the reasons why a lot of a lot of

00:20:43

things were the way that they were you

00:20:45

know.

00:20:45

>> Yeah.

00:20:47

>> So um we seven or eight. Um what about

00:20:51

um alcohol and meth?

00:20:53

>> Um

00:20:55

so yeah I was a hard out. I loved I

00:20:59

loved weed.

00:21:00

>> Um to the point where I my nickname was

00:21:03

blazed.

00:21:04

>> At what age? Uh, so I got that given to

00:21:06

me maybe I was still quite young, 10,

00:21:10

11.

00:21:10

>> Wow.

00:21:12

>> Um,

00:21:13

yeah, I got that from my cousins and my

00:21:15

brothers.

00:21:17

>> And yeah, I I wasn't really much of a

00:21:22

drinker. I I did start sort of drinking

00:21:26

um

00:21:29

when I come back from Aussie. So I got

00:21:31

the opportunity well mom sent me over to

00:21:34

Australia for for a holiday with my

00:21:36

uncle and you know that that was

00:21:39

probably a really good time.

00:21:41

>> What age was that?

00:21:42

>> I would have been 10 11. Yeah.

00:21:45

>> Somewhere around there. Sort of when I

00:21:47

was just starting to go off the rails,

00:21:49

you know. Mom sort of um sent me over to

00:21:52

Australia with my uncle for it was only

00:21:55

supposed to be for a holiday and I ended

00:21:57

up staying over there for a bit.

00:22:00

Um and yeah, my uncle, he was really

00:22:03

loving. Um you know, and my auntie

00:22:07

and yeah, they sort of just gave the

00:22:09

best that they could.

00:22:11

>> But yeah, I I struggled over there

00:22:14

without my mom and stuff like that like

00:22:17

Yeah.

00:22:20

>> So you came back to New Zealand

00:22:21

>> and then um is it that when you get

00:22:23

introduced to alcohol?

00:22:26

Uh, I I had a few drinks here and there,

00:22:29

but yeah, it sort of started taking it

00:22:31

on real hard when I when I got sent

00:22:33

home.

00:22:34

>> So, I got into some trouble over in over

00:22:36

in Australia at school.

00:22:39

>> Um, got suspended and and my uncle said,

00:22:42

"One more hiccup and you're going home."

00:22:45

And that was the end of the story. And

00:22:47

anyway, I had a bit of a hiccup at at

00:22:49

school and it was over a stupid hat, you

00:22:51

know, didn't want to take my hat off in

00:22:52

class because I couldn't read. All

00:22:54

right. You know, I was just playing up,

00:22:57

right?

00:22:57

>> Yeah.

00:22:58

>> And that that thing led to another and

00:23:01

um yeah,

00:23:03

Michael, oh, you're getting on a plane

00:23:05

and you're going home and I did the

00:23:06

runner. I ran away uh for a but I didn't

00:23:10

want to come home.

00:23:12

>> Um yeah, I really really enjoyed being

00:23:14

with my uncle and yeah, unfortunately I

00:23:17

stuffed that up. M

00:23:21

>> so June 27, 2010.

00:23:26

>> M

00:23:27

>> So there's a rugby game on All Blacks

00:23:28

Wales.

00:23:30

>> Yeah.

00:23:30

>> Yeah. Talk us through that day.

00:23:35

>> It was just a typical day to start off

00:23:38

with. Um

00:23:42

yeah,

00:23:44

I guess around lunchtime caught off the

00:23:46

boys. Um, and we were having a few

00:23:49

drinks.

00:23:50

There was no sort of plan to go into

00:23:52

town or anything like that at all. And

00:23:56

anyway, we met up with a few other boys

00:23:59

uh from our neighborhood in in Hamilton.

00:24:02

And yeah, there was one lot going to a

00:24:06

party that was was in in our hood and

00:24:09

the other boys were going to town. And

00:24:13

yeah, I had two choices to make whether

00:24:15

to go to the hood or go to town. And I

00:24:18

chose to go to town.

00:24:19

>> Um,

00:24:21

and yeah, that situation went south real

00:24:26

quick.

00:24:27

>> Um, you know, we weren't in town for

00:24:29

long, uh, before we were in a fight with

00:24:32

some Wales supporters.

00:24:35

um you know for no reason really know

00:24:38

they just yelled out of their taxi

00:24:42

stuff the all blacks or something like

00:24:44

that and that was enough to sort of

00:24:46

trigger it you know we were sort of

00:24:47

already intoxicated

00:24:49

uh we had had some um

00:24:53

some drugs that night so

00:24:55

>> what did you have

00:24:56

>> meth and and some some weed and stuff

00:24:59

like that

00:25:00

>> but yeah just heaps of alcohol um And

00:25:05

yeah, that sort of led to to to that

00:25:08

fight um with with the whale supporters.

00:25:12

And yeah, we needed an escape out of

00:25:14

town before we before we sort of got

00:25:16

caught. And there was a car there that

00:25:19

was there was idling and we thought that

00:25:21

cool, we'll take this car and we'll get

00:25:23

out of here. Um and yeah, the owner sort

00:25:27

of sort of come out and yeah, the

00:25:29

situation went went south. Um

00:25:34

>> yeah. So the owner of the car um 74 year

00:25:37

old man called uh Donald Stewart.

00:25:41

>> So didn't know him from a barite.

00:25:44

>> And there's you and how many of your

00:25:45

mates?

00:25:46

>> Uh there was three of us in in total.

00:25:49

Yeah.

00:25:49

>> Yeah. So three all the same age?

00:25:52

>> Uh two of one was 14, I was 15, and our

00:25:56

other co-offender was 18. M so even just

00:26:00

thinking about that you know a 14 and a

00:26:03

15year-old in town drinking

00:26:06

>> just sounds so wrong

00:26:11

>> so so Donald Stewart comes out of the is

00:26:13

it a toilet public toilet

00:26:15

>> yeah so he leaves his car outside goes

00:26:18

into the L comes out then what happens

00:26:21

>> um oh I was my part I played was trying

00:26:25

to steal the car

00:26:27

>> so I was trying to steal of the car and

00:26:30

yeah, my co-offender

00:26:33

um I guess punched him and yeah, that

00:26:37

was sort of sort of it. Um we just

00:26:40

thought that he had knocked him out and

00:26:43

we took off in in in his car

00:26:47

>> and and it wasn't until maybe 3 4 days

00:26:50

later

00:26:52

um that we realized that the guy had

00:26:56

actually died. M

00:26:57

>> how did how did you hear that or find

00:26:58

out?

00:26:59

>> Um I seen it actually on the front page

00:27:02

of the newspaper

00:27:04

>> right

00:27:04

>> of the white times um that my mom was

00:27:08

reading.

00:27:09

>> All right.

00:27:10

>> So she was what do you So yes so so um

00:27:15

yes. So so you take the car at that

00:27:17

point. Are you guys laughing and joking

00:27:19

like it's uh

00:27:20

>> well the guy who king hit him he was

00:27:22

just so intoxicated he was in the back.

00:27:25

He went to sleep. He He was gone.

00:27:28

>> Um we were pretty drunk, but yeah, we

00:27:32

got out of town.

00:27:33

>> But But at that point, you like you're

00:27:35

not worried or anything. You're just

00:27:36

like sick. We got a car. We got a ride

00:27:38

home.

00:27:39

>> We We got away from town.

00:27:40

>> Yeah.

00:27:41

>> Yeah. So there was no sort of, you know,

00:27:44

we weren't running from nothing. There

00:27:46

was no worries about anything else. Just

00:27:48

we've got the stolen car, which for for

00:27:51

us was a daily daily thing, you know.

00:27:55

Um, yeah. So,

00:27:58

>> so then you Yeah. you go home, carry on

00:28:00

with life, and then your mom's reading

00:28:02

the paper. What What is What does that

00:28:05

feel like at that moment? Are you like,

00:28:06

"Oh, fuck."

00:28:07

>> I didn't even tell anyone.

00:28:09

>> Right.

00:28:09

>> I never say anything.

00:28:11

>> So, my mom was sitting at the bus stop

00:28:14

and just out from our house. Yeah. Yeah,

00:28:17

she had the newspaper in her hand and

00:28:19

she was reading the way and I just seen

00:28:21

the front um cover and yeah, it was the

00:28:25

car.

00:28:26

>> It was the car actually.

00:28:28

>> Oh, oh, you couldn't even read the story

00:28:29

if you wanted to at that point.

00:28:31

>> So, it was just the car that was on the

00:28:33

front and I was like, "What the hell?"

00:28:35

And Yeah. Um

00:28:42

Yeah.

00:28:44

And then um

00:28:46

you you talk to your mates about it,

00:28:48

your mates that you're in town with.

00:28:49

You're like, "Fuck, we're in we're in

00:28:51

the [ __ ] here, boys."

00:28:52

>> Yeah. Caught up with this, bro. Have you

00:28:54

heard? And no. What? And it was actually

00:28:59

that day we all got pulled up.

00:29:03

>> You at that point, are you thinking,

00:29:04

"I'm not I'm not going to be in too much

00:29:07

trouble or are you like, [ __ ] we're all

00:29:10

we're all screwed here."

00:29:12

>> You know what I mean? cuz you didn't.

00:29:13

>> No, I didn't really think much of it. I

00:29:15

just thought, "Oh, we're done for

00:29:18

stealing a car."

00:29:19

>> Like we were young and didn't really

00:29:23

think too much about things

00:29:26

>> and yeah, I just thought we'll just get

00:29:28

a slap on the hand for for stealing

00:29:30

another car. Um, but no, it was it was a

00:29:34

lot bigger than that. got taken in and

00:29:36

sort of went into the interrogation sort

00:29:38

of uh setting and it all just started

00:29:42

like we're taking

00:29:45

bloody samples out of your fingernails

00:29:47

and taking your hair follicles and you

00:29:50

know it was crazy.

00:29:53

>> Um all your clothes got to come off.

00:29:55

They've got to go into a bag and you've

00:29:57

got to go into these clothes so that

00:29:59

we've got evidence and and whatnot. And

00:30:01

it sort of just Yeah, it was probably

00:30:06

the most daunting experience

00:30:11

>> to sort of think that you were just

00:30:14

somebody walking on the street and now

00:30:15

you're getting questioned for for

00:30:17

murder.

00:30:20

>> Yeah. When when did you Yeah. When was

00:30:22

the moment you realized the seriousness

00:30:24

of it or you you learned like that you

00:30:26

were going to be charged with

00:30:28

manslaughter?

00:30:29

Um, from the moment I was walking on

00:30:32

that street and a police officer pulled

00:30:34

up right next to me and said, "You're

00:30:35

under arrest for the murder of Don."

00:30:37

Yeah.

00:30:40

>> That very moment. So,

00:30:44

you know,

00:30:45

>> what that feel like? Like your world was

00:30:46

closing in?

00:30:47

>> Oh, I just felt like it was all over. My

00:30:50

whole life was that's it. It's over.

00:30:53

Um and yeah, got taken straight to the

00:30:58

to the police station in Watau and um

00:31:02

yeah, the questioning started straight

00:31:03

away as soon as we got there.

00:31:08

>> And then um you do you get um bailed or

00:31:12

anything or you go straight to juvie?

00:31:14

>> Um

00:31:16

shucks. I think the whole questioning

00:31:19

part took like a whole day to be honest.

00:31:21

Um yeah, they're trying to squeeze

00:31:24

information out of us and being that

00:31:27

young um didn't really want to talk

00:31:30

about stuff

00:31:31

>> and didn't want to, you know, sort of

00:31:34

throw anyone else under the table or

00:31:35

anything like that.

00:31:37

>> But yeah, I think from there I got

00:31:41

handcuffed and taken straight to juvie.

00:31:43

Yeah.

00:31:44

>> What's that like?

00:31:45

>> Um that process was pretty daunting too.

00:31:48

>> How so? Uh just, you know, going through

00:31:52

the strip searching process and stuff

00:31:54

like that where you got to take off all

00:31:57

your clothes, lift your nuts and all

00:31:58

that sort of stuff and squat down, cough

00:32:01

is quite um

00:32:04

shucks, how can you put it?

00:32:06

>> It can be quite

00:32:08

>> demoralizing, I guess.

00:32:10

>> Yeah.

00:32:12

>> And did you

00:32:14

at this particular moment in time, did

00:32:15

you did you feel like a sense of

00:32:16

injustice like this is [ __ ] Like I

00:32:19

didn't even, you know, speak. Yeah,

00:32:21

>> for sure. Um

00:32:26

>> Yeah, cuz I was like, well, I didn't

00:32:29

kill nobody. I didn't do that. But

00:32:33

>> um my

00:32:36

I guess now I I sort of see it

00:32:38

different. you know, I I take full

00:32:39

responsibility for for the role that I

00:32:42

played because there is another family

00:32:44

involved and you know, um

00:32:48

yeah.

00:32:51

Yeah. I mean, yeah, you're completely

00:32:53

different person now. If you were still

00:32:54

the same person, we probably wouldn't be

00:32:56

sitting down having this conversation

00:32:57

today.

00:32:58

>> Um but yeah, that's part of the um

00:33:01

inspiring bit of your story, I guess. Um

00:33:03

just the transformation and the change.

00:33:05

>> Yeah.

00:33:06

>> Um we'll go through all that. Yeah. So

00:33:07

you spent a year on remand in the

00:33:10

juvenile detention center.

00:33:11

>> Yeah, I think it was just over a year uh

00:33:14

that I was on remand and then I went up

00:33:17

uh so I was charged with with murder

00:33:20

then. Um

00:33:22

and yeah, sitting on remand waiting to

00:33:25

go to court and

00:33:28

anyway during that time I actually got

00:33:31

an opportunity to um to seek bail. Uh,

00:33:36

so I was able to get out on electronic

00:33:38

bail,

00:33:38

>> uh, which I, yeah, I I ended up getting

00:33:42

it, so I was quite stoked with that. So

00:33:44

I could go home, uh, for for a little

00:33:46

period there. And, um,

00:33:50

yeah, dumb choices again by myself. Uh,

00:33:54

cut it off. I cut the bracelet off and

00:33:56

went on the run for for a few months.

00:33:59

Um,

00:34:01

done a whole another range of dumb

00:34:03

stuff. Uh and then yeah, got caught and

00:34:06

went straight back inside.

00:34:08

And

00:34:10

yeah, when I finally went up to went up

00:34:13

for um my my court hearing and

00:34:19

I could there was two options on on the

00:34:21

table. I could go to trial and and try

00:34:25

and beat the case, which is what I

00:34:26

wanted to do. Um, or I could take the

00:34:32

manslaughter charge, which was the

00:34:33

lesser charge, and you get whatever was

00:34:38

going to come with that.

00:34:39

>> But had I lost um the trial, I would be

00:34:43

looking at life in prison.

00:34:44

>> Oh, sort of like a plea deal.

00:34:46

>> Yeah.

00:34:46

>> Right. Uh so

00:34:49

I sort of weighed things up and you know

00:34:52

I say well

00:34:54

I I didn't touch him. So I I felt that I

00:34:57

I had I had some sort of um

00:35:01

case but my heart was telling me I

00:35:04

didn't want to put the family through

00:35:05

anymore.

00:35:06

>> I didn't want them to go through

00:35:08

anymore. I didn't need to go through a

00:35:09

trial um because then that family has to

00:35:13

deal with more you know. So on the day I

00:35:17

was just like, "Nah, I I'll take the

00:35:20

deal. Get this over and done with." And

00:35:23

yeah,

00:35:26

>> where did that come from?

00:35:28

That's a That's a good heart

00:35:30

>> or a good um like a glimpse of a good

00:35:32

moral compass.

00:35:34

>> You know, there's there's a there's a

00:35:37

good guy in there

00:35:38

>> in that kid.

00:35:39

>> Oh, I definitely think that that did

00:35:41

come from my mom. M she did install some

00:35:44

some good qualities in us and and the

00:35:48

loving part was Yeah. And yeah, I think

00:35:52

that did come from my mom.

00:35:55

>> Yeah. How how was this whole period for

00:35:56

for her for your mom?

00:35:58

>> You know what? I don't actually know. Um

00:36:01

to be honest,

00:36:03

I could only imagine that it was it was

00:36:05

hell.

00:36:07

I could only imagine myself with my own

00:36:10

kids. Imagine if one of my daughters was

00:36:13

going out with this,

00:36:14

>> how would I feel, you know,

00:36:16

>> um in that whole process as a parent?

00:36:22

>> So, yeah, I sort of

00:36:26

I regret going out that night with with

00:36:28

those guys. Um

00:36:30

>> Oh, mate, I've got no doubt that you've

00:36:32

replayed it in your mind a million

00:36:34

times.

00:36:34

>> Yeah, for sure.

00:36:35

>> A million times about what you what you

00:36:36

could have done, what you should have

00:36:37

done.

00:36:38

>> Yeah. Um,

00:36:40

>> you can't though. You can't change the

00:36:41

past.

00:36:41

>> No, I can't. And as much times as I want

00:36:44

to think, father, there was so much that

00:36:46

I could have done that night to stop

00:36:48

this or that I could have helped or all

00:36:51

those sort of things, but you know, this

00:36:54

this is the the cards that we dealt. Um,

00:36:58

and yeah, this the consequences we had

00:37:01

to deal with them

00:37:03

>> on our own. you know, I couldn't control

00:37:06

what my co-offenders were doing.

00:37:09

Couldn't control any of that stuff.

00:37:11

>> What they did was what they did and I

00:37:13

was there

00:37:14

>> and I put myself in that situation.

00:37:16

>> Yeah.

00:37:16

>> I showed up that night.

00:37:19

>> So, you get sentenced to uh 5 and a half

00:37:21

years for manslaughter and then um that

00:37:24

that's when you get moved from um the

00:37:26

juvenile detention center to

00:37:28

>> Widia prison.

00:37:29

>> Wa prison. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And adults

00:37:31

jail. So, you're how old? Uh, I was 15,

00:37:35

16.

00:37:36

>> Right. How old do you have to be to go

00:37:37

to an adult jail?

00:37:39

>> Oh, once you got those charges, you can

00:37:41

go straight in there. As soon as you get

00:37:43

sentenced,

00:37:44

>> but you I mean, you're still essentially

00:37:46

a kid. Are you in like segregation or

00:37:48

>> um population or

00:37:50

>> they had a youth wing at at Wia at that

00:37:53

at that time? Um, they don't anymore.

00:37:56

Um, but once you're sort of sentenced,

00:38:02

you can go straight into mainstream

00:38:05

prison or segregation. Uh, it's it's

00:38:08

your choice. Um, but I went to youth

00:38:12

prison in Wedia until I turned 18. The

00:38:15

day I turned 18, I went um I went up to

00:38:19

main prison and spent a bit of time

00:38:22

there before I went down to the camp.

00:38:24

So,

00:38:25

>> yeah.

00:38:27

What's that like going um Yeah. Is it

00:38:30

terrifying going?

00:38:31

>> Oh, for sure. Just going to jail is

00:38:33

quite terrifying. You know, uh you're

00:38:35

away from your family. You're away from

00:38:37

the norm of what you know. And yeah,

00:38:41

you're pretty much stuck in this

00:38:43

>> in this concrete jungle with all these

00:38:47

I don't know other inmates that have

00:38:50

done bad things, you know. M um and

00:38:53

yeah, it was quite

00:38:56

how how can I put it? Um not intimidated

00:38:59

cuz I I seen a lot myself. So

00:39:02

>> So you weren't scared or anything?

00:39:03

>> No, I wasn't scared. Um I think I just

00:39:07

felt lonely, eh? Um yeah.

00:39:10

>> Yeah, I was going to ask about that. Um

00:39:14

must just feel like a huge sense of

00:39:15

homesickness. Yeah, homesickness. This

00:39:17

is something you associate with kids.

00:39:19

But

00:39:20

>> I don't know like Yeah. You just can't

00:39:22

have any access to your family or

00:39:24

>> No, like you can't just walk down the

00:39:26

road anymore.

00:39:27

>> Can't go to the park.

00:39:29

>> You can't go see your mates. Can't just

00:39:30

go to the shop and go grab your ice

00:39:32

cream or whatever. Um yeah, you're stuck

00:39:34

in this routine now for however long

00:39:37

that you're in there. And

00:39:40

yeah, so when I when I

00:39:44

when I turned 18, I was given an option.

00:39:47

You go to segregation or SEGS or you go

00:39:50

to mainstream. And it was there was no

00:39:54

other option. It was just mainstream.

00:39:56

>> And um

00:39:58

>> how's that? Is it a brutal place? All me

00:40:01

and probably most people listening to

00:40:03

this or watching this think about jail

00:40:04

is what you see on TV or movies. Um,

00:40:08

oh, I think if you want to, you can just

00:40:12

have a cruisy cruisy lag, but there's

00:40:14

trouble everywhere, eh? Uh, everywhere

00:40:16

in in jail,

00:40:19

people are hustling, people are up to

00:40:22

whatever that they're doing.

00:40:23

>> Um, so yeah, you're sort of exposed to

00:40:26

that and at the age of 15, 16, you're

00:40:30

soaking it all in,

00:40:32

>> you know, you're like a little sponge.

00:40:34

>> It's like a university for band.

00:40:36

just soaking all that information in,

00:40:39

>> taking it all on board.

00:40:41

>> And you know what's crazy is like you

00:40:44

think you go to jail to be

00:40:46

rehabilitated. So when you get out of

00:40:48

jail, you become a better person, but in

00:40:52

fact it's not the case at all.

00:40:54

>> You come out in a way worse uh condition

00:40:58

than what you went in, you know. So

00:41:00

you've say you've only gone in for steal

00:41:03

and the lollipop. You're soon going to

00:41:04

learn how to cook meth and everything

00:41:06

else

00:41:07

>> while you're in there

00:41:09

>> and you're going to make so much

00:41:10

networks and connections

00:41:13

um you know with the people that you

00:41:15

want to

00:41:19

>> how was your mental health during um

00:41:21

your incarceration? Did you did you ever

00:41:23

consider taking your own life? Like I'm

00:41:24

I'm thinking 15 years old, you know, you

00:41:28

get sentenced to, you know, a stint of 5

00:41:30

years.

00:41:32

>> It's so that seems like such a long

00:41:35

period of time.

00:41:36

>> Yeah. My mental health was gone and oh,

00:41:40

I was pretty I was in a pretty bad

00:41:41

space. Um I tried committing suicide

00:41:45

maybe

00:41:49

a handful of times, sorry, while I was

00:41:51

in inside. Um,

00:41:54

and one of them was the night that I got

00:41:56

sentenced.

00:41:57

>> M, the night I got sentenced to 5 and

00:41:59

1/2 years,

00:42:01

>> I went back to myself and I was going to

00:42:02

top myself that night.

00:42:05

>> And yeah, I just thought the world was

00:42:09

going to be a better place without me,

00:42:11

you know.

00:42:12

>> Um, yeah.

00:42:14

>> Well, thanks for sharing that. M and on

00:42:17

a few other other occasions um yeah I

00:42:22

really considered it and tried to do it

00:42:25

on a few other occasions and never

00:42:28

succeeded

00:42:35

you. What's prison life like?

00:42:37

Like did you see some things that you

00:42:40

just never unsee

00:42:43

violence and stuff? Yep.

00:42:46

There is a few situations that I've seen

00:42:48

I pro probably won't share them.

00:42:51

>> Okay.

00:42:51

>> They're pretty brutal. Um

00:42:54

and yeah, but the routine of jail life

00:42:59

every day is the same.

00:43:01

>> What is it? What's a day?

00:43:03

>> So, you'll get up in the morning. Um

00:43:05

>> what time?

00:43:06

>> Depends what unit you're in. Some units

00:43:09

uh get to get up and say 7 8:00 in the

00:43:12

morning. they'll get unlocked and then

00:43:14

know some of them be unlocked until well

00:43:17

now nowadays some of them are out until

00:43:20

7 8:00 at night, you know.

00:43:22

>> Um but back then it was 8:00 unlock and

00:43:27

you're locked up from 11:00

00:43:30

in the morning through to 1:00 in the

00:43:32

afternoon and you're out for another

00:43:33

couple hours and doors were locked at

00:43:36

4:00. Um, and then in the time that

00:43:40

you're out of of your cell, you have to

00:43:43

do courses and all that sort of stuff,

00:43:45

uh, while you're in there. And then

00:43:48

you're locked up for lunch. Um, and then

00:43:51

back in your back out for a couple

00:43:53

hours, wreck time,

00:43:56

gym, yeah, all that sort of stuff. And

00:43:58

then lock back up uh for the rest of the

00:44:00

day until the next morning.

00:44:03

>> And that was pretty much our routine for

00:44:06

>> Yeah. for a while uh until the prisons

00:44:09

sort of opened up uh the doors and

00:44:12

pretty much done free range for for all

00:44:14

of us

00:44:15

>> from 8 to 8.

00:44:18

>> Was was there anything about it that you

00:44:20

liked? I I had um you know the UFC

00:44:22

fighter Mark Hunt.

00:44:23

>> Yeah.

00:44:23

>> Yeah. I had um the super sam on on the

00:44:25

podcast and he um when he was younger he

00:44:28

he did some time I think he was in Weta

00:44:31

as well for for violence

00:44:32

>> and he actually he loved the structure

00:44:35

and and the discipline aspect of it

00:44:37

>> he sort of thrived in there

00:44:39

>> wouldn't want to go back he said

00:44:42

>> but um

00:44:42

>> neither

00:44:45

>> um

00:44:46

I f what did I like about that I think

00:44:50

um what I did actually quite like about

00:44:53

it was the

00:44:55

the ingenuity and also the

00:45:00

like far

00:45:03

like some of the people that are in

00:45:04

there are so talented that's crazy.

00:45:07

>> Like they could be multi-millionaires

00:45:09

had they put their skills in the right

00:45:11

place. Like some of the um some of the

00:45:15

guys in there with their like just for

00:45:18

example selling drugs, it's it's a big

00:45:21

deal. like it's not just like anything

00:45:24

like you've got a whole business sort of

00:45:27

to uphold, you know, and you've got to

00:45:29

distribute all this product. Um, and if

00:45:33

you think about it, the same skills that

00:45:35

are used for that, you know, is the same

00:45:38

skills that we use for selling clothes

00:45:39

and stuff like that. So,

00:45:41

>> you know, had they just transferred that

00:45:44

skill to something positive, they they

00:45:47

would probably be walking millionaires,

00:45:49

you know.

00:45:49

>> Yeah. And the funny thing is as a legit

00:45:51

entrepreneur, you can make way more

00:45:53

money than what you can make illegally.

00:45:54

>> Yeah, for sure.

00:45:55

>> Oh yeah. And you can go buy a car

00:45:57

without um without any sort of question.

00:46:00

So

00:46:01

>> yeah. Yeah.

00:46:02

>> Um

00:46:04

did were you did you have your own cell

00:46:06

or were you like sharing with someone

00:46:07

else?

00:46:08

>> Uh I was sharing for a bit there. And

00:46:11

>> is it preferable? Is it is it is it like

00:46:13

I love my personal space. I couldn't

00:46:15

imagine someone having a dump in front

00:46:17

of me or vice versa. Um, is it is it do

00:46:21

people like being in a cellar with

00:46:22

another person because it gets lonely on

00:46:23

your own or what's that?

00:46:25

>> Oh, you some places you just got no

00:46:27

choice?

00:46:28

>> Yeah.

00:46:28

>> You know, so um Yeah. Like Spring Hill

00:46:31

for example, which is which is where my

00:46:34

last uh lag was was in Spring Hill and

00:46:38

those were all double uh double cells,

00:46:40

you know, so you'll sell it up with

00:46:42

somebody else. Um, but yeah, I prefer to

00:46:45

have my own cell, my own personal space,

00:46:48

>> and but hey, sometimes it was actually

00:46:51

good having a salemate, someone who you

00:46:53

could play cards with and sort of

00:46:55

bounce, I don't know,

00:46:57

>> stories off and stuff like that. And

00:46:59

yeah,

00:46:59

>> it's very small space to have two grown

00:47:02

men though, isn't it?

00:47:02

>> Yeah, it is. Um, actually Oakland wasn't

00:47:06

too bad to be honest.

00:47:08

It was a lot bigger than than Witti.

00:47:10

>> Yeah. But what's the um the biggest sort

00:47:12

of misconception about prison? Like you

00:47:14

hear people talking on like talkback or

00:47:16

whatever saying it's like a fivestar

00:47:17

hotel, you know, under floor heating and

00:47:21

you know all that sort of rhetoric.

00:47:23

>> Oh, it was nothing like that in Wii. I

00:47:26

could tell they had this heated bar and

00:47:29

that was it. Uh that's all they heated

00:47:31

up your cell.

00:47:32

>> Um and that did nothing during winter,

00:47:35

>> right? And you don't get extra blankets

00:47:38

or anything like that because of the

00:47:39

risk of uh suicide and and things like

00:47:42

that, you know. So, you don't you didn't

00:47:45

get extra blankets or extra sheets or

00:47:48

anything like that. You you just had to

00:47:50

deal with the cold by putting on maybe

00:47:53

extra set of pants or something like

00:47:55

that. So,

00:47:56

>> yeah, Wedia sort of um in between

00:48:00

Hamilton and the central north island

00:48:04

road sort of area. It's over by Telu.

00:48:06

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:08

>> [ __ ] it be cold there in winter.

00:48:09

>> It's freezing.

00:48:10

>> Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:12

>> What What about um correction staff?

00:48:13

Like um at the time we're recording this

00:48:15

there's a big ad campaign that's on TV

00:48:17

and on YouTube all the time and um they

00:48:20

talk about they want to make a

00:48:21

difference in your experience and most

00:48:22

of the most the staff in the New Zealand

00:48:24

correction system good or there's some

00:48:26

[ __ ]

00:48:27

>> Oh, there's [ __ ] everywhere. It

00:48:29

doesn't matter whether you're in

00:48:30

corrections or or not. There's there's

00:48:32

[ __ ] just walking on the street.

00:48:35

>> Um but you know, most of the the screws

00:48:39

or the corrections officers that I dealt

00:48:41

with, they were they were pretty good.

00:48:43

>> They had um they had good hearts. Hey,

00:48:45

they want

00:48:46

>> they want the best for for the guys.

00:48:49

Hey, that they want to see them get out

00:48:51

>> and they don't want to see them come

00:48:52

back is is a lot of their their their

00:48:57

mahi, you know,

00:48:58

>> and

00:49:00

um

00:49:01

yeah, I think they get a lot of slack

00:49:04

for for the work that they do,

00:49:06

>> but hey, they're just trying to put Kai

00:49:08

on the table for their for their faro

00:49:10

just like everyone else.

00:49:12

>> But, you know, I've dealt with a with a

00:49:15

few corrections officers since I've been

00:49:17

out. Um, and my wife and I, we were

00:49:20

going in to Wikidia prison, uh, where I

00:49:23

started my farming journey and

00:49:27

we were sort of just sharing our journey

00:49:28

of where we are sort of now, you know,

00:49:30

with some of the guys that are on the

00:49:33

farming

00:49:34

um, program in there

00:49:36

>> and yeah, those corrections officers

00:49:38

really want the best.

00:49:41

>> Um, yeah.

00:49:44

>> Yeah. So, this is where the farming

00:49:45

journey started. Um,

00:49:48

Yeah. How explain that? Like a lot of

00:49:50

people be listening to this going, "What

00:49:52

do you mean farming journey in jail?"

00:49:54

>> Yeah. So um

00:49:57

in Weria there is there was three dairy

00:50:02

farms operating operating at that time

00:50:05

and I was in a unit that um ran the the

00:50:11

fencing of the of the dairy platform. Uh

00:50:15

so I got an opportunity to go out on the

00:50:17

on the farms and uh fix some of the

00:50:19

fences for for the cows and stuff like

00:50:22

that. And

00:50:23

>> so it's a farm in inside the the prison

00:50:26

perimeter fence or we are we used to low

00:50:29

security at this point?

00:50:30

>> Yeah. So you've got to be low security

00:50:33

uh in order to get out. Um so it it took

00:50:37

a it took a very long time. Maybe

00:50:39

>> no [ __ ] after you cut off the detention

00:50:41

anklet.

00:50:42

>> Yeah. So, my rock royal was pretty high

00:50:45

and in order to get it down, I needed to

00:50:47

do courses and and sort of keep my my

00:50:51

nose clean. Um,

00:50:53

>> what sort of courses were they any good?

00:50:55

>> You know what? Um, I think they would be

00:50:58

good if you want that help, you know, if

00:51:02

you actually want it. Um, there are some

00:51:05

good resources in some of those courses,

00:51:07

but hey, I was just doing it so I could

00:51:10

tick some boxes to get my ass out.

00:51:12

That's all I wanted to do those courses

00:51:15

for.

00:51:16

>> Um,

00:51:17

so I done I done heaps of courses while

00:51:19

I was in there and when I got out.

00:51:21

>> What like like anti violence and

00:51:23

>> um drug and alcohol uh yeah violence

00:51:28

>> um multi multif focus uh program. Uh

00:51:32

there was the mers disturbs and all that

00:51:34

sort of stuff. Um, yeah. So, those are

00:51:37

all sort of optional some of them. Some

00:51:40

of them you have to do.

00:51:43

>> So, you start farming because you think,

00:51:45

"Oh, this will be a good way to pass the

00:51:47

time, get some fresh air."

00:51:49

>> Yeah. So, I I took the opportunity cuz I

00:51:52

I was sick of staying myself.

00:51:55

>> So, yeah. Went out on the farm and I

00:51:58

started to learn a few skills and I

00:52:00

actually fell in love with the freedom.

00:52:03

M just the freedom of being out on the

00:52:06

land. Like I remember this one moment

00:52:09

like it got so a guy would come and he

00:52:13

wasn't an officer. He was just like a

00:52:15

manager um sort of like a contractor

00:52:18

into corrections who would take us out

00:52:20

and show us fencing. Anyway, he come and

00:52:23

picked us up in the morning and we'll

00:52:25

get ready and shoot out, go pick up our

00:52:28

gear and and go do some fencing. And I

00:52:31

remember this one day I just took off my

00:52:34

took off my gum boots and and that and I

00:52:37

just stood on the grass e and just that

00:52:40

that feeling of just freedom.

00:52:44

>> It just felt so good.

00:52:47

>> And yeah, I fell in love with with the

00:52:49

fennel that in that moment.

00:52:53

>> So when you're when you're farming

00:52:55

during your sentence, what what does the

00:52:56

day look like? you get up early for

00:52:58

milking or anything like you out there

00:52:59

before sunrise or no?

00:53:01

>> Um, so there is actually a milking crew

00:53:03

that that that'll do that. Yeah, they'll

00:53:06

be up there say 4:00 in the morning, go

00:53:08

milk the cows,

00:53:10

>> but with our crew, we would sort of just

00:53:13

pop into the dairy shed every now and

00:53:14

again and go milk a cow if we wanted to

00:53:18

and stuff like that. So that was the

00:53:20

first place I I actually put a set of

00:53:22

cups on on a cow was was at weria.

00:53:25

>> And

00:53:28

even though I was in the fencing crew,

00:53:30

we we always went to the dairy platforms

00:53:33

just to see um if there was sort of any

00:53:37

priority jobs that they needed done for

00:53:40

where their cows were going and stuff

00:53:41

like that. So we were really exposed to

00:53:44

to quite a few opportunities in there.

00:53:46

Tractor driving and you know we we had

00:53:49

free range once we were out on those

00:53:51

farms like you'll get given a quad you

00:53:54

have to go right to the other side of

00:53:56

the prison to do some stuff over there

00:53:58

and you know so it it wasn't like we had

00:54:01

an officer with us 24/7

00:54:03

>> uh while we were there. Um

00:54:05

>> it's a massive amount of trust e but as

00:54:07

you said before it's like earned trust.

00:54:08

Yeah, that's right. And and like it

00:54:11

takes a lot of work to get out on those

00:54:13

programs.

00:54:14

>> Some people just think that you just you

00:54:16

just get given them, but no, it took me

00:54:18

three three years in order to actually

00:54:21

get

00:54:22

>> out.

00:54:25

>> And and was it somewhere during this um

00:54:26

this farm stunt while you're

00:54:28

incarcerated that you think um this is

00:54:30

going to be the future for me? like um

00:54:33

did did like did you do some serious

00:54:34

like inner work?

00:54:36

>> Um

00:54:37

>> and so you were determined to change or

00:54:39

not at this point?

00:54:40

>> No.

00:54:41

>> No, I didn't know

00:54:44

what change was really. I was Yeah. I I

00:54:49

just wanted to get out of jail

00:54:50

>> and just make the time go faster.

00:54:52

>> Yeah.

00:54:52

>> Yeah.

00:54:53

>> Um you know, I didn't see farming as

00:54:56

anything then. Um, but I knew I was

00:54:59

learning some really good skills and

00:55:02

yeah, learned how to operate tractors

00:55:04

and and whatnot while I was in there.

00:55:06

Um,

00:55:08

again, we we had courses in there and I

00:55:12

struggled.

00:55:13

>> It was

00:55:14

>> cuz you still couldn't read or

00:55:15

>> Yeah. So, all the practical stuff I aced

00:55:18

but all the theory stuff was just like

00:55:21

>> Yeah.

00:55:21

>> Yeah. Well, why could you have got an

00:55:25

education in there?

00:55:26

>> For sure. Yeah. Why Why didn't you use

00:55:28

that time to read and write? You had

00:55:29

nothing else to do.

00:55:30

>> Um I don't know. I just to be honest, I

00:55:34

think I was

00:55:36

maybe too cool for it, you know?

00:55:38

>> I thought I was

00:55:39

>> just embarrassing.

00:55:40

>> Yeah.

00:55:40

>> Yeah.

00:55:41

>> Um yeah, I didn't want to tell anyone

00:55:44

that I couldn't read or write.

00:55:47

>> And yeah, I just didn't want to bear

00:55:49

that shame, I guess.

00:55:51

>> Yeah, it's understandable. So then um

00:55:54

2014 uh you get released after 4 years.

00:55:57

So you're how old at the time?

00:55:59

>> I was 20.

00:56:00

>> 20. [ __ ] You're still really young, eh,

00:56:02

man.

00:56:03

>> And um what do you get? You get $300 the

00:56:07

$300 when you leave?

00:56:08

>> Yeah.

00:56:09

>> 350 bucks.

00:56:10

>> Really? What do they base that on?

00:56:12

>> I don't know.

00:56:13

>> Is that money that you earned on the

00:56:14

farm or

00:56:15

>> I don't know. But

00:56:16

>> does everyone get it when they leave

00:56:17

jail?

00:56:18

>> Um it's it's definitely not from the

00:56:21

work that you do in there. Okay.

00:56:22

>> It's just the steps to freedom that you

00:56:24

that you receive once you get released

00:56:26

from jail.

00:56:27

>> And if you're a prisoner, if you're

00:56:33

if you smoke drugs, drink alcohol, all

00:56:35

that sort of stuff, you already know

00:56:36

where that $350 is going. It's

00:56:38

definitely not going on food. And yeah,

00:56:41

it's not going on a ride either. It's

00:56:43

probably going on either an ounce or a

00:56:47

bag or alcohol.

00:56:50

It's going on a good time.

00:56:52

Um, so yeah, it's just a a $350 ticket

00:56:56

back to jail

00:56:58

>> is how I see it.

00:56:59

>> So, what what's that day like when you

00:57:00

when you get released after being

00:57:02

incarcerated for 4 years? Who who's

00:57:04

there to pick you up?

00:57:05

>> Um, the day I got out and released, my

00:57:09

wife picked me up

00:57:11

>> and

00:57:11

>> Nikki, who's in the control room now.

00:57:13

>> Yeah.

00:57:13

>> Yeah. So, when did you start seeing her?

00:57:16

Um, long story short, uh, so I knew

00:57:21

Nikki for for a few years before we

00:57:23

started, um, actually seeing each other

00:57:26

and just become good, really good

00:57:28

friends.

00:57:29

>> Um, she was really supportive and yeah,

00:57:33

sort of developed from the from that.

00:57:35

Um, and so when when I did get up, yeah,

00:57:39

the the feelings just become even more,

00:57:42

>> you know. So,

00:57:45

>> have you had this discussion with it?

00:57:46

Like, what did she see in you

00:57:48

>> or if she's picking you up from jail?

00:57:50

Like, she know, you know, she knows she

00:57:52

knows everything about you.

00:57:55

>> Um,

00:57:55

>> was she just going through her bad boy

00:57:56

phase?

00:57:58

>> I don't know.

00:58:02

What did you see of me?

00:58:04

>> Um, she did she see

00:58:06

>> I don't know. Did she see potential?

00:58:07

Like, did did she like the Ben that's

00:58:10

sitting in front of me now? Did she

00:58:12

>> I believe so. I believe so, Dom.

00:58:14

>> She believed in you even before you

00:58:16

believed in yourself.

00:58:17

>> That's right. Um she seen something that

00:58:19

I did not.

00:58:21

>> And um it's

00:58:26

I've got Iowa to her. She she deserves

00:58:28

all the praise and all the credit of

00:58:30

where we are today.

00:58:32

So a lot of the the mahi and and behind

00:58:35

the scenes is my wife. M she's really

00:58:40

done a lot to get us or get me in the

00:58:44

space that I am now, you know. So

00:58:47

>> yeah,

00:58:47

>> that's awesome.

00:58:49

>> So she picks you up. What what do you

00:58:50

do? You go to McDonald's, KFC, like what

00:58:52

what's the

00:58:54

like like what do you what do you in

00:58:56

that four years like what do you what do

00:58:57

you fantasize about what you're going to

00:58:59

do when you get out?

00:59:00

>> Fantasize

00:59:02

no. Um, we

00:59:04

>> I I love Coke Zero, so I'd be just

00:59:07

craving that.

00:59:09

>> Um,

00:59:10

Shak, she picked me up and I had a time

00:59:14

limit to be at the address that I needed

00:59:17

to be at, which was pretty much the time

00:59:21

from the prison to the address. So, we

00:59:24

we couldn't we couldn't stop at all.

00:59:26

>> Okay.

00:59:27

>> Um, and funny story, funny story. Um, so

00:59:31

we left Waia, drove home, and we were

00:59:36

turning into our driveway and what was

00:59:39

sitting in my driver was a police

00:59:40

officer, a police car, and I was like,

00:59:44

"Oh, we were like 2 minutes late, bro. 2

00:59:48

minutes late on this on arriving." So we

00:59:51

we got caught up in a bit of traffic. So

00:59:55

2 minutes late and the cop was here. I

00:59:58

was like, "Oh, [ __ ] I'm going back to

01:00:00

jail.

01:00:01

Oh no, I'm going back to jail already. I

01:00:05

just got out like 1 hour ago. Um anyway,

01:00:09

the cop wasn't even there for me. He

01:00:11

just pulled over.

01:00:12

>> Oh, so so yeah, there's an address that

01:00:15

you get bailed to. It has to be an

01:00:16

approved address and then strict bail

01:00:19

conditions like no drugs, no alcohol.

01:00:21

Yeah, no drugs, no alcohol, curfew,

01:00:24

um

01:00:25

no association with uh co-offenders,

01:00:29

and you know, couldn't see the the

01:00:32

victim's family, all that sort of stuff.

01:00:34

>> Um which is pretty it's the basics, you

01:00:38

know, sort of when you get released on

01:00:40

on parole.

01:00:42

>> And

01:00:44

yeah, so I I got home in time. Didn't

01:00:47

get to stop for Mackers or anything like

01:00:49

that. Um, but I think our first feed

01:00:53

that night was was KFC,

01:00:55

which Yeah, I loved it cuz if you if

01:00:59

you've been locked up for for so many

01:01:01

years over that time, chicken is the

01:01:04

best feed when you're in jail. So, every

01:01:07

Friday night, chicken. So,

01:01:10

>> in jail?

01:01:11

>> Yeah.

01:01:11

>> Really?

01:01:12

>> So, chicken, some roast veggies,

01:01:15

um, some peas, and some gravy. M there

01:01:19

was every Oh, no. Every Thursday night,

01:01:21

sorry. Friday night was a jandle.

01:01:24

>> A jandle?

01:01:25

>> Yeah. A fish jandle.

01:01:27

>> What's that?

01:01:29

>> So, it's one of those hokey fish.

01:01:33

>> Like a fish fillet.

01:01:34

>> Yeah.

01:01:34

>> Yeah. Yeah.

01:01:35

>> And it's just steamed and like you can

01:01:37

you can whack people with it, bro. Like

01:01:40

those are just jandles, eh?

01:01:44

So,

01:01:45

>> and then um um you you slip up and you

01:01:47

get go back to jail and you get

01:01:49

recalled.

01:01:50

>> Yes, I did get record. Um

01:01:53

so, yeah.

01:01:57

>> What was that for?

01:01:59

>> Um violent.

01:02:02

>> Violent.

01:02:04

Oh,

01:02:06

as much as I wanted to

01:02:09

as much as I wanted to change when I got

01:02:11

out like Yeah. It just wasn't wasn't it

01:02:15

got out and probably become worse.

01:02:18

>> And

01:02:19

>> who who who are you violent against?

01:02:22

>> Um

01:02:24

against my wife.

01:02:26

>> Yeah. So you know seeing domestic

01:02:29

violence growing up like

01:02:33

not saying that it was normal but

01:02:36

yeah that's sort of what I was exposed

01:02:37

to. And

01:02:40

um I remember telling myself I never

01:02:43

ever want to be like that and I become

01:02:45

that and probably even worse to be

01:02:48

honest.

01:02:50

Uh so yeah, everyone that was sort of

01:02:53

close to me I was I hurt.

01:02:56

>> Yeah.

01:02:58

>> Why is she still here?

01:03:01

>> That's a good question.

01:03:03

But

01:03:05

yeah, like like before, I think she just

01:03:07

sees the potential um and sees the

01:03:10

greater

01:03:11

>> in me that

01:03:12

>> yeah, that no one else can see.

01:03:15

>> And you know, I didn't even with the

01:03:18

awards and stuff like that.

01:03:20

>> Um I didn't see myself there.

01:03:23

>> I didn't even see myself uh in that

01:03:25

atmosphere,

01:03:26

>> let alone winning it.

01:03:28

>> Yeah. And yeah, she she really drove me

01:03:31

to, you know, step out and give it a

01:03:34

crack.

01:03:37

>> So, you you go back to jail.

01:03:39

>> Um,

01:03:40

>> you must be feeling like [ __ ] at this

01:03:42

point, eh? Like, oh, like like you've

01:03:44

let yourself down, you've let Nikki

01:03:45

down, you've [ __ ] up.

01:03:48

>> That was probably rock bottom was their

01:03:50

last stint.

01:03:51

>> Yeah. Um, so I went back to jail and

01:03:56

I finally got a hold of of my wife and

01:03:59

the phone call went like this. Me and

01:04:02

the kids are going to Australia.

01:04:05

Um,

01:04:06

so before you get out, we'll be gone.

01:04:09

You know, that was the conversation,

01:04:11

>> right? Cuz you would be unable to

01:04:13

travel. No.

01:04:13

>> So you couldn't

01:04:14

>> I couldn't go to Australia

01:04:16

>> and I've applied just recently and I'm

01:04:19

still getting denied. M

01:04:21

>> you know because of my charges. But

01:04:24

yeah, her and the kids were going to go

01:04:25

to Aussie and that was probably where I

01:04:28

hit rock bottom. Not even being in jail

01:04:31

was rock bottom for me.

01:04:32

>> Uh was hearing that from from my wife

01:04:35

was she was taking my kids away and

01:04:39

>> and there's nothing you can do about it.

01:04:40

>> And there's nothing I could do about it.

01:04:42

But thank thankfully to well my wife was

01:04:47

staying and to my two older girls who um

01:04:51

cried, you know, they they really

01:04:55

wanted us to work things out

01:04:58

>> and wanted to,

01:05:01

you know, sort of

01:05:03

um wanted mom to stay with me. So

01:05:06

>> yeah.

01:05:06

>> So is is that sort of how she

01:05:10

>> Yeah. Was it the kids that sort of

01:05:11

convinced you to stay?

01:05:12

>> And did you did you make a like a big

01:05:14

growling promise that you're going to

01:05:16

change this time? And

01:05:17

>> Yeah.

01:05:18

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:05:19

>> Um,

01:05:19

>> and did you did you mean it? Did you

01:05:21

think you were able to?

01:05:23

>> I did mean it. Um, I didn't know how I

01:05:26

was going to do it and I didn't know

01:05:30

where I was going to get the support to

01:05:32

to it

01:05:33

>> cuz I I don't know if it's pride or or

01:05:36

what, but I didn't know how to ask for

01:05:39

help. Yeah. I couldn't ask anybody for

01:05:42

help. Yeah.

01:05:43

>> So, yeah. And I remember saying to to my

01:05:49

wife like this time for real like I want

01:05:52

to marry you.

01:05:54

Long story. Like the day we actually got

01:05:56

the day I got out of jail, we went

01:05:58

straight to the courthouse and got

01:06:00

married.

01:06:02

>> Pretty romantic. Um

01:06:04

>> a nice visit to court.

01:06:05

>> Yeah. So went to the courthouse and

01:06:09

yeah, we went through that process. Um,

01:06:12

and you know, I I would have loved to

01:06:15

have believed that that would have been

01:06:16

the end of all the [ __ ]

01:06:19

>> But it's not true. E

01:06:23

>> like the drugs,

01:06:24

>> the alcohol,

01:06:26

>> the all of that sort of stuff was still

01:06:30

easily accessible. Especially out here,

01:06:33

you just walk down the road and you can

01:06:35

find somebody with drugs and there's a

01:06:37

liquor store on every single corner.

01:06:39

>> Um, and

01:06:40

>> I suppose it's hard when that's your

01:06:42

when that's your ecosystem, like that's

01:06:43

that's all your friends and your faro

01:06:45

and everything you know. What? So, how

01:06:48

do you escape it?

01:06:49

>> F. Do you just have to cut tie with all

01:06:52

your

01:06:53

>> Yeah. As hard as as hard as it is, you

01:06:57

have to separate yourself

01:06:58

>> until you're I guess strong enough um to

01:07:02

say no.

01:07:03

>> Hey, like especially with meth and stuff

01:07:06

like that.

01:07:07

>> And all my bros I could get it

01:07:11

anytime, you know, and

01:07:13

>> so I had to cut those ties in order to

01:07:15

get off the ship.

01:07:16

>> Um

01:07:18

and yeah.

01:07:21

So, so, so for you, for your story,

01:07:24

we're at the point now where your

01:07:26

sentence is done, you've done the crime.

01:07:28

Uh, you've done the you've done the

01:07:30

crime, you did the time. Yeah.

01:07:31

>> And then now you're allowed to get on

01:07:32

with your life. Um, but I suppose for um

01:07:36

for for the victim's family, Donald

01:07:37

Stewart, like it's a it's a life

01:07:39

sentence in a way. They have to live

01:07:40

with it forever. Like Yeah. Like Yeah.

01:07:44

Yeah. How do you reflect on that?

01:07:46

>> You know, I I think about their family

01:07:48

all the time. Yeah,

01:07:50

>> you know, prior to even getting getting

01:07:52

into the exposure side of things, um

01:07:56

like entering the awards and before I

01:07:59

even done all that stuff, um I really

01:08:03

wanted to I guess

01:08:07

seek forgiveness. Um, and you know, just

01:08:12

some sort of

01:08:15

it's okay, you know, for for you to move

01:08:18

on with your life, so to speak.

01:08:21

>> Um, so yeah, we I think it was 2020, I

01:08:26

had the opportunity of of actually

01:08:27

meeting um,

01:08:30

Don's brother and and his his wife and

01:08:34

and his family. And you know the the

01:08:38

three words that really um I guess set

01:08:41

me free was we forgive you know and even

01:08:47

though I heard that at sentencing as

01:08:50

well. Um yeah that really just I guess

01:08:54

gave me a sense of

01:08:57

freedom again. It

01:09:00

>> did they say that in the sentencing?

01:09:02

>> Yeah. Wow.

01:09:03

>> In in the sentencing. Um cuz like my um

01:09:08

my mom's the same age now as what uh

01:09:10

Donald was and dad's a little bit older.

01:09:13

So I'm just I'm projecting here. I'm

01:09:14

putting myself in in their position.

01:09:17

>> If it was me, I think I'd be able to I'd

01:09:20

be able to forgive you now seeing seeing

01:09:22

the man you've become and that you've

01:09:24

done the work and you've changed. Um,

01:09:26

but if I was in court facing like a

01:09:28

shitty little 15year-old that had had

01:09:30

done it and wasn't actually sorry or

01:09:32

hadn't done any change at that point,

01:09:34

I'd find it very difficult to forgive

01:09:35

you at that point.

01:09:36

>> Yeah. You know, I I actually did not

01:09:39

understand

01:09:41

forgiveness then. I did I didn't

01:09:43

understand it. M

01:09:45

>> um so when when I think it was the

01:09:47

daughter um had read that you know I I

01:09:51

didn't quite get it until till later on

01:09:54

in my journey

01:09:55

>> uh where I sort of started to learn

01:09:57

about forgiveness and stuff like that

01:09:59

>> and you know that was the first

01:10:01

encounter of of forgiveness that I that

01:10:03

I ever had

01:10:04

>> was that day in sentencing

01:10:06

>> and

01:10:08

yeah and then again when I met the

01:10:12

brother um you know that if they do

01:10:15

forgive me and and stuff like that for

01:10:18

for the part that I played and you know

01:10:20

what um that really gave me the wings to

01:10:23

to fly I guess

01:10:25

>> um and sort of take off and and start my

01:10:29

life

01:10:30

>> with my family um because yeah my my

01:10:34

faro are my why of why I do everything

01:10:39

>> and

01:10:41

yeah and and it wasn't plain sailing

01:10:44

after that like you and you nick you

01:10:45

were living in a car for a while. You

01:10:47

were homeless.

01:10:47

>> Yeah. So I put my family in a situation.

01:10:51

Hey um

01:10:53

I was I was working then but I was still

01:10:56

hooked on drugs.

01:10:57

>> Mhm.

01:10:58

>> Uh at this at this point and

01:11:02

meth was was that drug. Um

01:11:06

and I sold everything for it. I sort of

01:11:09

went down this path of just I wanted it

01:11:12

and I was going to do anything to get

01:11:14

it. Um so I just started selling

01:11:17

everything, got rid of everything and

01:11:19

just to fulfill my my habit. Um, but I

01:11:24

think also to numb some of that

01:11:27

that pain,

01:11:29

>> hey,

01:11:29

>> the childhood trauma that stuff that

01:11:32

happened with the uh with the situation

01:11:35

with uh Dawn and that and yeah um put my

01:11:41

faro

01:11:43

in a situation where they become

01:11:44

homeless. Yeah. And

01:11:47

um we're sort of couch surfing from Faro

01:11:51

and friends and stuff like that. And you

01:11:54

know Nikki and the kids sort of camped

01:11:58

up in in the car while I was still out

01:12:00

the gate. Um you know chasing

01:12:05

meth.

01:12:09

>> Nikki must have been been under so much

01:12:11

pressure from her family. E like like

01:12:12

what are you doing with this guy?

01:12:14

>> For sure.

01:12:16

Like

01:12:16

>> I can't imagine like the I don't know

01:12:18

the what the word is if it's

01:12:20

determination or whatever to stay with

01:12:22

you. Like

01:12:24

>> there must have been so much fun I

01:12:25

pulled to get her away from you.

01:12:27

>> Oh for sure. Like yeah I don't even know

01:12:31

why or how she even stayed with me. Um

01:12:34

yeah. So and her faro like they're are

01:12:38

loving. They're real loving family. M

01:12:42

>> um my mom and dad. Yeah, they're so

01:12:45

awesome. You know, they they probably

01:12:47

didn't like me then at all.

01:12:49

>> Well, it sounds that you didn't like

01:12:51

yourself then.

01:12:52

>> No, I didn't.

01:12:53

>> Um I

01:12:55

was a pretty ugly person then. Um yeah,

01:12:59

>> to to everyone,

01:13:01

>> not just to

01:13:02

>> Nikki and I was just ugly to everybody.

01:13:05

>> Yeah. There's a saying I really like um

01:13:08

hurt people hurt people.

01:13:10

>> That's right.

01:13:10

>> Yeah. Yeah,

01:13:11

>> you were you were hurt.

01:13:12

>> Yeah. And you know what? There's there's

01:13:15

a flip side to that. E um when you find

01:13:17

healing and heal people, heal people.

01:13:21

>> Yeah. And I guess that's sort of the

01:13:23

journey that I'm on at the moment is

01:13:25

>> is using my experience and my journey

01:13:29

that I've been through to sort of um

01:13:32

help others that are going through it

01:13:35

>> and also to hopefully be some sort of

01:13:39

intervention for some of our young ones.

01:13:41

>> Yeah.

01:13:42

>> So that they don't have to walk down the

01:13:44

same path. They don't need to experience

01:13:46

jail. That's ugly place. You don't need

01:13:50

to go down there. Go get an education.

01:13:53

>> Go learn how to read or write. Um, you

01:13:55

know,

01:13:56

>> go put your head in some books so you

01:13:58

could become something.

01:14:03

>> Thankfully, we're through the the ugly

01:14:05

part of the story. Yeah. Is it is it

01:14:09

hard to talk about?

01:14:10

>> Um,

01:14:11

>> it's it's part of it's part of your

01:14:13

story, eh, but it's still not a nice

01:14:14

part of the story.

01:14:15

>> No. And I guess like when you're sharing

01:14:18

your shame,

01:14:20

it is quite quite hard. E um but I also

01:14:24

see the power in it. Um like I was just

01:14:28

sharing then like for others to be able

01:14:31

to take it up and and maybe get

01:14:33

something from it.

01:14:35

>> Um is is sort of where I see the power

01:14:37

in in sharing.

01:14:38

>> Yeah. Yeah, because if if I could help

01:14:41

somebody

01:14:43

and change the course of what whatever

01:14:45

path that they're on,

01:14:47

>> I feel like I'm I'm doing something not

01:14:51

just for me and myself, but also for Don

01:14:53

and his family,

01:14:54

>> you know, like Yeah.

01:14:57

[Music]

01:14:59

>> So, so how do you go from um living in

01:15:02

the car to getting getting that first

01:15:05

job on a farm? Who who was it that gave

01:15:07

you gave you the opportunity?

01:15:09

>> Um, so

01:15:14

shucks from there

01:15:16

I had a few jobs uh leading up to that

01:15:19

situation, but my first job when I first

01:15:21

got out of jail was actually on a bull

01:15:23

farm in Mensville doing three and a half

01:15:26

thousand bulls. Um, which was hard work,

01:15:30

>> but I I lived off that adrenaline. So

01:15:35

working with bulls was bloody cool.

01:15:39

Um and yeah, so that was the first

01:15:42

opportunity that I got when I first got

01:15:44

out of jail. It was the week of getting

01:15:46

out of jail

01:15:47

>> that I got that one.

01:15:49

>> Um

01:15:50

and then from there I moved over to the

01:15:53

dairy industry and I had a a heap of

01:15:57

[ __ ] jobs. E like with a criminal record

01:16:00

you have to take whatever. You don't

01:16:03

have an option.

01:16:04

>> Yeah. The opportunities are extremely

01:16:06

limited, aren't they?

01:16:07

>> That's right. Hey, so um in every single

01:16:11

interview that you'll walk into, first

01:16:13

question is, "Have you got a criminal

01:16:14

record?" Straight off the bat. Okay. So,

01:16:18

yes, I do. Oh, cool. Is it just

01:16:20

stealing? No, it's manslaughter. Oh,

01:16:24

that's pretty much the interview over,

01:16:26

you know. So, that was probably 99% of

01:16:29

the time.

01:16:30

>> Yeah. So, and then yeah, finally got a

01:16:33

got a break um from a really awesome

01:16:37

farmer uh in in the Mville Minesville

01:16:41

area. Uh Graeme Graeme and Julie Lucas,

01:16:46

amazing couple. And you know what? They

01:16:48

actually gave me the opportunity to to

01:16:52

operate their farm. But also during that

01:16:55

time was when I went back in on my

01:16:58

recall

01:16:59

>> was was on their farm. And you know any

01:17:04

other a farmer or an employer that'll be

01:17:08

it. Your job's gone. You know you're not

01:17:10

here to fulfill it. So they'll need to

01:17:13

fill that spot. Well they didn't. They

01:17:16

kept my job open. They allowed Nikki to

01:17:20

operate the farm while I was absent or

01:17:22

in jail and they helped her out and they

01:17:27

came along to my parole hearing. Um

01:17:31

yeah, so

01:17:33

that was a really powerful I guess

01:17:36

moment also in my journey was was them

01:17:39

and you know they are really awesome

01:17:41

today. They still flick me a message

01:17:43

every now and again, stay in contact,

01:17:46

seen them last year, field days and

01:17:47

stuff like that. And and oh, I'm so

01:17:50

grateful to have people like them.

01:17:53

There's another couple as well, uh,

01:17:56

Shane and Cheryl.

01:17:58

Um, another beautiful couple, who gave

01:18:02

me an opportunity knowing my background.

01:18:04

Um, they just didn't care. They were

01:18:06

like, "Cool, that doesn't really worry

01:18:09

us." and he taught me a lot about

01:18:12

farming, about life. Um, yeah, sort of

01:18:16

like a

01:18:18

like a cur, a father figure, you know.

01:18:20

Um, one that yeah, sort of showed me a

01:18:23

lot in the short amounts of time that I

01:18:26

was with him.

01:18:27

>> He he taught me heaps. And the

01:18:30

>> these two farm owner couples that you've

01:18:32

just mentioned,

01:18:34

have you had a conversation with them?

01:18:35

Like, why didn't they just wash their

01:18:37

hands with you?

01:18:38

I haven't actually had that conversation

01:18:40

with them. Um, but you know what, Shane,

01:18:43

he he's always like even just recently,

01:18:48

he um

01:18:50

he dropped off these homemade boats. So,

01:18:54

he made these little little yachts

01:18:57

uh for my for my daughter.

01:19:00

>> And, you know, we've just had this

01:19:02

relationship

01:19:04

um since starting with him. And it's

01:19:08

just been amazing, you know, uh like

01:19:11

>> I can call on them whenever or I feel

01:19:13

like I can call on them for whatever,

01:19:16

you know.

01:19:17

>> Um and when we move from

01:19:21

um from his farm to another farm, like

01:19:24

he got all the support that we needed to

01:19:25

move and and everything like that. So

01:19:28

>> yeah, he's just I don't know. You find

01:19:31

those ones and but it's quite rare, you

01:19:34

know. It's just like finding bloody

01:19:36

diamonds, you know. It is quite rare.

01:19:38

And

01:19:39

>> uh when when I did find them, they would

01:19:42

Yeah. They become family, you know.

01:19:45

>> Yeah. There's some really good people

01:19:46

out there, right? But it's you can also

01:19:49

understand not saying that people that

01:19:50

wouldn't give you a sec a second chance

01:19:52

or a third chance are bad people. They

01:19:54

don't owe you anything.

01:19:55

>> No, they don't. and they didn't need to

01:19:58

do what they did

01:19:59

>> at all. You know, especially when I went

01:20:01

to jail. Um I

01:20:05

I

01:20:05

>> there would be an opportunity to say,

01:20:07

"Okay, we we gave you a chance. Clearly,

01:20:08

you haven't changed. Um we don't want to

01:20:10

know about yet."

01:20:11

>> Yeah, for sure.

01:20:12

>> Yeah.

01:20:13

>> And obviously they also seen potential

01:20:15

in me that I didn't see,

01:20:18

>> you know.

01:20:18

>> When did you start to see the potential

01:20:20

in yourself?

01:20:21

>> Um

01:20:25

maybe

01:20:27

after

01:20:34

25 I don't maybe 7 years ago. Yeah,

01:20:37

>> 7 years ago. Was there a moment or

01:20:39

anything or was it like a gradual thing?

01:20:42

Um,

01:20:44

so

01:20:46

I was going through a whole lot of

01:20:47

rubbish and you know I was I was

01:20:49

actually looking at going back to jail

01:20:52

and um

01:20:55

had this police officer. He

01:21:00

he was um

01:21:02

he he was at home quite a lot, you know,

01:21:06

um checking up on Nikki and whatnot. Um,

01:21:09

yeah, just to see if things were all

01:21:11

going okay. But it wasn't. And you know,

01:21:14

he was like, "Bro, like if you carry

01:21:16

this [ __ ] on, you're going to go to jail

01:21:19

and they're going to throw away the key

01:21:20

and that's it."

01:21:22

>> And you know, and that's coming from who

01:21:25

I thought was the enemy

01:21:27

>> my whole life. Um, I seen police

01:21:30

officers as enemy forever

01:21:34

>> because of what I seen in our own home,

01:21:36

>> seen in our neighborhood and stuff like

01:21:38

that with Faro, you know. So, to

01:21:42

actually hear that from from a police

01:21:44

officer was like, wow.

01:21:46

>> Yeah.

01:21:48

>> So,

01:21:49

>> felt like he he was sort of on your side

01:21:50

in a way.

01:21:51

>> It did.

01:21:52

>> Yeah.

01:21:52

>> And there was no strings attached to it,

01:21:55

>> you know. I sort of genuinely

01:21:58

like Yeah. I felt

01:22:02

something different from him.

01:22:05

>> Yeah.

01:22:08

>> So, so you you made the change.

01:22:09

>> Was it a good or was it a gradual thing

01:22:11

with a couple of um speed bumps along

01:22:13

the way?

01:22:14

>> Yeah. So, um I I did this program that

01:22:18

really gave me some real good resources

01:22:21

and tools to be honest. um that helped

01:22:24

me not just in my relationship but in my

01:22:27

own journey of

01:22:30

I guess

01:22:32

not just self-discovery but you know

01:22:35

dealing with childhood traumas and and

01:22:38

stuff like that and you know just really

01:22:40

getting to understand what was going on

01:22:44

um and why it was happening and stuff

01:22:46

like that and you know that

01:22:50

really helped me out and you know I was

01:22:52

able to apply I a lot of those tools in

01:22:54

into my life and Yeah.

01:22:59

>> How long have you been um Do you still

01:23:01

drink at all or No,

01:23:02

>> no. Just doesn't agree with you.

01:23:05

>> Yeah. What about

01:23:06

>> jail put me in there? Oh, drinky put me

01:23:08

in in jail, you know. So, I don't really

01:23:11

I don't typically like alcohol. Um like

01:23:16

I didn't I wasn't a heavy drinker

01:23:18

anyway. I was more of a drugs. Hey,

01:23:21

drugs was my my thing.

01:23:23

>> So, yeah, alcohol wasn't really a

01:23:26

>> So, when was the last time you drunk or

01:23:28

smoked meth?

01:23:29

>> Oh, last night. No,

01:23:34

>> on the weekend.

01:23:35

>> Just for clarification. So, yesterday,

01:23:37

we're recording this on a Saturday. On

01:23:39

the Friday, you had a day on the farm

01:23:40

and then you were out diving for

01:23:42

crayfish at like midnight.

01:23:44

>> Yeah. No, that that is my that's my drug

01:23:46

now. E.

01:23:47

>> Yeah. That's your outlet, your voice.

01:23:49

Yeah. Hey, that that's my the thing that

01:23:51

fills my cup

01:23:53

>> is is my family and also I love I love

01:23:57

diving but my passion is is in is in

01:24:00

working the fenoa working with with

01:24:03

animals

01:24:04

>> but also teaching um you know people

01:24:08

about the agriculture sector. M I quite

01:24:12

enjoy that and showing the life of a New

01:24:15

Zealand farmer

01:24:17

>> and and somebody who has come out of

01:24:20

that I guess system or their lifestyle

01:24:24

>> um and can make something of themselves,

01:24:27

you know, just I guess a a glimmer of

01:24:30

hope for for

01:24:32

>> those ones that are sitting in in in

01:24:34

jail, you know, that that it doesn't

01:24:37

have to be it.

01:24:39

>> Yeah. So, your life looks pretty good

01:24:41

now.

01:24:42

>> It does.

01:24:43

>> What about um um the domestic violence?

01:24:46

When was the last time you you and Nikki

01:24:49

have your sweet now?

01:24:50

>> Oh, it's more her now.

01:24:54

I'm the one getting the hiding these

01:24:55

days, mate. Hey, no. Um yeah, just a air

01:25:00

bash.

01:25:03

No, but domestic violence, bro. None.

01:25:06

No,

01:25:07

>> it's um it's cuz you You've got this

01:25:10

like this piece this inner piece about

01:25:12

you now.

01:25:13

>> Yeah. Uh I'm content with life now. E um

01:25:16

I've got my three-year-old daughter

01:25:18

who's just watching every single step

01:25:20

that

01:25:20

>> that I'm taking.

01:25:22

>> Uh she's looking at everything that we

01:25:25

do together and yeah, she's just soaking

01:25:28

it in. And I don't want her to see that.

01:25:31

>> Um I don't want her to grow up

01:25:34

>> with domestic violence and stuff like

01:25:36

that.

01:25:36

>> Yeah. Cuz it's all for kids. It's all

01:25:38

one and lost in the first thousand days.

01:25:40

Something like like 80% of the brain

01:25:42

development, everything they know about

01:25:43

like, you know, healthy relationships

01:25:45

and

01:25:46

>> everything, it's all done in those first

01:25:48

few years.

01:25:49

>> I'm not saying that I'm I'm perfect or

01:25:51

I'm the best. But I I want to give my

01:25:54

daughter everything that I didn't get

01:25:56

and more,

01:25:57

>> you know. Um like yeah, I just want to

01:26:00

show her a life that

01:26:03

>> Yeah. It just gives her so much I guess

01:26:06

freedom and opportunity

01:26:10

um where she can just I guess dream big.

01:26:14

Yeah. I just Yeah. I want the best for

01:26:16

for my daughters.

01:26:18

>> How would you feel if you heard that

01:26:20

when she's seven an older cousin gives

01:26:21

her weed?

01:26:23

>> Oh

01:26:24

>> yeah.

01:26:27

>> It's so young. E

01:26:28

>> so young when you started, bro.

01:26:30

>> I know.

01:26:31

>> It's crazy. Like even even when I think

01:26:33

of my older daughters, I'll just put

01:26:35

this back up like you know and

01:26:40

going to jail at 15 14 15

01:26:43

>> like when my girls were 14 and 15

01:26:46

>> like

01:26:47

>> they were at school, you know,

01:26:50

um really they do really awesome uh at

01:26:54

heights and stuff like that. But they're

01:26:57

involved in so much sports so far out.

01:27:01

Like is this is this what 15y olds do?

01:27:05

>> Yeah. Normal healthy 15y olds. Yeah.

01:27:07

Now, how does your your past um still

01:27:09

impact your life today? Like in terms of

01:27:12

I guess like like judgment and

01:27:15

>> Oh, people always going to judge.

01:27:16

>> Yeah.

01:27:17

>> You know, that's just the unfortunate

01:27:19

part of life. M um but you know it

01:27:22

doesn't really impact me so much

01:27:26

nowadays but you know I'll always have

01:27:31

in the back of my mind the family

01:27:34

they'll always be there

01:27:37

um yeah I've always

01:27:39

>> Don's family

01:27:41

>> so in everything that I do I'm always

01:27:43

quite cautious of

01:27:46

um how I

01:27:50

yeah how I sort of portray things cuz I

01:27:53

don't want to hurt their family anymore

01:27:55

than what they you know they're already

01:27:57

doing a life sentence like you said

01:27:59

>> and they don't need to

01:28:00

>> have anymore you know

01:28:02

>> so I always try and um think about my

01:28:05

actions and how that may affect them

01:28:09

>> and myself and my and my family say

01:28:11

>> yeah

01:28:13

so uh 2024 um you win the award young

01:28:16

moldy the farmer of the year.

01:28:18

>> Yeah.

01:28:18

>> Yeah. Was Was everyone okay with that or

01:28:21

were there some people that were like,

01:28:23

"Oh, this guy shouldn't win because of

01:28:25

his past or

01:28:27

>> Definitely. There's so many people who

01:28:30

don't think that I deserve to be where I

01:28:31

am today."

01:28:32

>> You know, some people definitely think

01:28:34

that I should be still in jail cell

01:28:36

rotting,

01:28:37

>> you know, with the key thrown away,

01:28:39

never to be found. Um,

01:28:42

but

01:28:44

uh I want to change and I've got it. Um,

01:28:48

I wanted to be better. Uh, I wanted to

01:28:50

change the cycle for for my family.

01:28:54

>> Um, and you know, I

01:28:59

yeah, the the judgment's always going to

01:29:00

be there. But I think for me, like,

01:29:05

as long as I I believe in myself and

01:29:08

I've got the right support around me,

01:29:10

like, yeah, I don't think that I could

01:29:12

fall over.

01:29:14

>> I've got my wife, I've got my kids, um,

01:29:16

who are 100% behind me, got my family,

01:29:20

um, my friends, my my boys who I go

01:29:22

diving with, and everyone's sort of

01:29:24

keeping me on track. M

01:29:26

>> um and you know I've got to give it up

01:29:28

to my team and you know my wife is

01:29:31

probably the leading part of of of all

01:29:34

of it you know so

01:29:36

>> is um

01:29:39

is New Zealand a hard country to get

01:29:41

redemption in

01:29:43

>> Yeah sure.

01:29:44

>> Yeah. Like we've we've got so much

01:29:47

things that go on here in tall puppy

01:29:50

syndrome here in Al is rubbish.

01:29:52

>> It's probably the

01:29:53

>> Oh, it's just Yeah, it's disgusting.

01:29:55

It's ugly. It is. It's real ugly.

01:29:57

>> Yeah. And you know, like

01:29:59

>> a lot of it's centered around jealousy,

01:30:01

I think.

01:30:01

>> Yeah, for sure. Exactly. It's a It's a

01:30:03

strange phenomenon syndrome.

01:30:05

>> Yeah. Especially here in Oh, I don't

01:30:07

know what it is, but you know, people

01:30:09

just don't want to see people

01:30:10

succeeding.

01:30:11

>> And you know, they don't want to see

01:30:13

people change.

01:30:14

>> Yeah.

01:30:15

>> So, and then when you do change, it's

01:30:17

like, no, we want you to go back to how

01:30:19

you were because we were benefiting

01:30:21

>> of that person. You know,

01:30:23

>> it's kind like you're damned if you do,

01:30:24

damned if you don't. It's like you you

01:30:26

you you're like a dream outcome. This is

01:30:27

what you can't log people up forever.

01:30:30

>> No.

01:30:30

>> Um so the the dream result is that

01:30:32

someone goes through does the crime,

01:30:34

does the time

01:30:35

>> and then um completely changes their

01:30:37

life. Like I've had another guy on the

01:30:39

podcast, Dr. Paul Wood,

01:30:40

>> who's um he he murdered his drug dealer

01:30:43

when he was 18 and uh did 10 years um

01:30:46

>> got a couple of degrees when he was

01:30:48

inside and he's changed his life around

01:30:49

and you know there's still Yeah.

01:30:53

Yeah,

01:30:54

>> it's a good lesson in a way, I guess, in

01:30:56

that, you know, you your past does stick

01:30:59

with you.

01:31:00

>> Yes. And you know, I'm not going to let

01:31:02

it define who I am,

01:31:04

>> but it it is now a part of my my story.

01:31:09

>> Um, and yeah, with that, I I want to

01:31:14

share it so

01:31:16

>> yeah, I can help others. M

01:31:19

>> um what other awards have you won? Yeah.

01:31:22

So I won Dahu Fininoa Young Moldi Farmer

01:31:25

2024 and then the following the

01:31:29

following week

01:31:31

um

01:31:32

oh no sorry before winning AU Finoa I

01:31:36

won dairy manager of the year uh for the

01:31:38

central plateau and then uh went to

01:31:42

nationals down in Queenstown where I won

01:31:44

the people and leadership award at the

01:31:47

nationals and then the following week

01:31:50

after nationals was uh won young multi

01:31:53

farmer of the year. Uh which was it was

01:31:56

an epic night. Like that was amazing. Uh

01:32:00

but the leadup to it like going back

01:32:04

three years

01:32:06

I lost I actually

01:32:09

I didn't win the Au Finoa and that had

01:32:12

like a pretty big uh effect on me

01:32:16

>> um mentally and

01:32:18

>> did it why?

01:32:20

Um, I don't know. I think cuz I

01:32:24

I put so much money in like I didn't

01:32:27

think that I won it, but yeah, I thought

01:32:31

that I had put in enough work um then,

01:32:36

but obviously, hey, I needed I needed

01:32:38

some more growing. I needed some more

01:32:40

developing. Um, so I went back to the

01:32:42

drawing board

01:32:44

>> and I showed up again. Um so for so it's

01:32:49

every 3 year rollover for AU Finoa. Um

01:32:52

so I lost that year. So for the next 3

01:32:54

years I really wanted to do all that I

01:32:57

could to prepare

01:32:59

>> um to come back again. And hey I was

01:33:03

willing to turn up as many times as I

01:33:07

could

01:33:09

um not just for myself but for my far

01:33:12

>> and stuff like that.

01:33:14

and just to show that hey you can fall

01:33:17

over but it's up to you what happens

01:33:19

from there

01:33:20

>> and it was the same with the industry

01:33:21

awards uh so I done it for four years in

01:33:24

a row and for three of those years I I

01:33:30

one year I didn't even place at all

01:33:32

>> I was I was always in the top five

01:33:34

>> uh for each year that I did uh do the

01:33:37

awards and yeah it took four years

01:33:40

before I actually took it out

01:33:42

>> um so yeah

01:33:43

I'm pretty when I sort of fix myself on

01:33:46

something, I I I want to go for it.

01:33:49

>> Yeah. Like a dog with a b.

01:33:50

>> Yeah. Um and yeah, that was sort of

01:33:53

tunnel vision for uh for last year for

01:33:56

the manager of the year. It's like, you

01:33:58

know, I've put in all this mahi over the

01:34:00

last few years and this year I want to

01:34:02

give it a bit more

01:34:04

>> to see where I get.

01:34:06

>> Oh, good for you. And what about the

01:34:07

social media stuff? Where did that

01:34:09

start? You've got um um I checked you

01:34:11

out. farm RPZ. Um, your top Tik Tok's

01:34:15

got 22 million views.

01:34:17

>> Is it

01:34:18

>> 22 million views? Yeah. Which is

01:34:19

massive. It's an Yeah. unfathom fathom

01:34:23

fathomable amount of people.

01:34:24

>> Is that one where a cow's [ __ ] on

01:34:26

you or

01:34:27

>> uh it might be. Yeah. It might be the

01:34:29

one where the cow's [ __ ] on me or it

01:34:32

could be the one where I'm eating

01:34:34

crayfish and stuff like that. Um, but

01:34:37

yeah, again, it's just sharing the life

01:34:40

of a New Zealand farmer, a New

01:34:42

Zealander. Hey, living the life. And

01:34:45

yeah, I see a rural as as a really

01:34:49

awesome lifestyle

01:34:51

>> to bring your kids up. And yeah, I

01:34:53

really want to sort of

01:34:55

>> um I guess show it a bit more to attract

01:34:58

a lot more people into it cuz

01:35:00

>> Yeah.

01:35:02

um with social media and you know yeah

01:35:04

there's an upside but there's also a

01:35:06

downside as well like do you do you have

01:35:08

to block a lot of people?

01:35:09

>> Um people come at you in the comments.

01:35:12

>> Yeah heaps really saying what oh just

01:35:15

bringing up the past and

01:35:16

>> Oh not so much that like more

01:35:20

um people just trying to drag you down

01:35:22

you know like I was saying that tall

01:35:23

poppy syndrome.

01:35:24

>> Yeah. Hey, like a lot of people here at

01:35:26

Ulti at all just I don't know they don't

01:35:28

want to see people succeed

01:35:30

>> and they just want to pull you down. So,

01:35:33

um some of that we block and some people

01:35:36

do try to bring up the past but

01:35:39

>> I guess it doesn't affect you that much.

01:35:42

um you know I see more of the positive

01:35:45

stuff that's coming up like there's

01:35:48

thousands more positive things than

01:35:50

negatives uh that are coming through on

01:35:52

social media

01:35:53

>> and you know it's more around I guess

01:35:56

memories you know like we've got an

01:35:58

older generation that are sort of coming

01:36:00

through on social media saying thank you

01:36:02

for sharing because it's just brought

01:36:05

back memories of my childhood

01:36:07

>> with my dad or my core on the farm you

01:36:10

know which which is quite Um,

01:36:12

heartwarming I guess.

01:36:14

>> No, it's lovely.

01:36:16

>> And what about the high fist clothing?

01:36:18

You got a clothing label as well, eh?

01:36:20

>> Yes. So, we launched our clothing last

01:36:24

year uh sort of off the back of uh all

01:36:26

the awards. Oh, might have been prior to

01:36:29

the awards actually. Sorry. And yeah, so

01:36:32

we launched this this clothing.

01:36:36

And we started it

01:36:39

um to help uh people with Kai, you know.

01:36:44

So um my wife and I were sort of forking

01:36:48

out um at that time out of our own

01:36:51

pocket

01:36:52

>> uh to help some families that were in

01:36:54

need in our community. So we're just

01:36:56

going down to the shopping, buying $100

01:36:58

worth of grocery and sort of giving it

01:37:00

to a faro.

01:37:02

>> And you know, that was just getting too

01:37:04

hard on us financially.

01:37:06

um putting a lot of pressure on our

01:37:08

home. So yeah, we we started this

01:37:11

clothing and I didn't like the clothing

01:37:14

that's in farming at the moment too.

01:37:17

So that was another reason why I why I

01:37:20

wanted to start my own clothing and have

01:37:22

my own wardrobe. Um so

01:37:24

>> it's really really cool. What's the

01:37:25

what's the name? What's

01:37:27

>> uh the name is Kamu to Pamu, which means

01:37:29

calm your farm. Uh so

01:37:31

>> and it's cool. It's like h with um moldy

01:37:34

designs. Yeah. So, we've got singlets.

01:37:37

We've got our H highos range, which is

01:37:39

our working range uh which is uh

01:37:43

highlighted pink, yellow, and orange uh

01:37:47

in hoodies and shirts. And then, yeah,

01:37:50

we've got a whole other range of of

01:37:51

kakahoo as well. And yeah, it sort of

01:37:55

started taking off after winning the

01:37:57

awards. And then we just featured on

01:37:59

Country Calendar uh just recently. And

01:38:03

yeah, uh it just went crazy. Um so we

01:38:08

sold out two or three times and yeah, it

01:38:11

was just hard to try to keep up with

01:38:13

with the sales, the demand and yeah, we

01:38:17

finally just got on top of things. So

01:38:19

it's at a manageable stage right now.

01:38:21

>> Unreal. Unreal. So how can people access

01:38:24

it? What's the easiest way to find it?

01:38:25

>> Uh so online kamu.co.

01:38:29

Mhm.

01:38:29

>> Otherwise, you can find us on social

01:38:31

media kamu or flick me a message on farm

01:38:37

>> and I I'll send that to you.

01:38:38

>> Amazing. Um, what would your advice be

01:38:40

for anyone listening to this who is at

01:38:42

their say own version of rock bottom

01:38:44

right now?

01:38:46

>> Yeah, maybe someone is listening to this

01:38:48

that's living in a car on me,

01:38:50

incarcerated, whatever it happens to be.

01:38:58

But don't give up. E,

01:39:00

>> don't give up. Hey, there there's

01:39:02

another day.

01:39:04

There'll be another sunrise tomorrow to

01:39:07

give give life another go. Um, yeah,

01:39:12

just don't give up. Don't be afraid to

01:39:14

ask for help.

01:39:16

I think that's where I let myself down a

01:39:19

lot was not allowing myself to ask for

01:39:22

help.

01:39:23

>> And so, don't be afraid to ask for help.

01:39:25

There's always people out there that are

01:39:26

willing to help. M

01:39:28

>> um more than what we think.

01:39:31

>> Yeah.

01:39:31

>> Hey, and yeah, if you if you need reach

01:39:37

out to someone, I'm always happy. Hey,

01:39:39

people always reach out on on my social

01:39:41

media for help for whatever. And if we

01:39:46

can point you in a in a direction that

01:39:47

can get you that help, then I'll be more

01:39:51

than willing to do that.

01:39:53

>> Do you do you do you consider yourself a

01:39:55

role model? um

01:39:59

an example. Yeah.

01:40:01

>> Uh especially for our our young ones

01:40:05

that are coming up.

01:40:07

>> And yeah, I really have a heart for for

01:40:11

our our youth, our young ones, cuz man,

01:40:14

like

01:40:16

yeah, imagine just like you were saying

01:40:18

earlier, um 7 years old.

01:40:23

>> I can't imagine that anymore. M

01:40:26

>> so young painfully young

01:40:28

>> and and it doesn't need to happen like

01:40:30

yeah so

01:40:32

>> if you could go back and talk to like a

01:40:35

young Ben 7y old Ben 5-year-old Ben

01:40:37

whatever it happens to be

01:40:39

>> what would you tell him? Oh, I've said

01:40:42

it before like sorry for for the way

01:40:44

that things was, but I think um

01:40:50

if I could go back and and tell my

01:40:52

younger self something

01:40:54

more like blurry buck your ideas up and

01:40:56

use your ears e go to school learn

01:40:59

something

01:41:01

um like yeah do something with yourself

01:41:05

>> and yeah

01:41:09

not saying

01:41:10

Life is bad now. It's really good now.

01:41:13

But

01:41:14

>> hey, had had I not had the support

01:41:17

around me, I probably wouldn't be

01:41:18

sitting here with you talking about this

01:41:21

stuff to be honest.

01:41:22

>> And I I know for 100% if I didn't have

01:41:26

my wife

01:41:27

>> and my family, I wouldn't be here.

01:41:30

>> I would probably still be in jail.

01:41:32

>> Yeah.

01:41:34

>> So Don's family have forgiven you. Do

01:41:37

you forgive you?

01:41:38

>> I have. Yeah.

01:41:40

>> Yeah.

01:41:40

>> Did it take a while?

01:41:41

>> It did.

01:41:42

>> Even after that process,

01:41:45

even long after that process,

01:41:47

>> I sort of it sort of comes and goes. Um

01:41:51

so, you know, there'll be a long period

01:41:53

of time where I sort of just coasting

01:41:55

through life and then it sort of just

01:41:57

hits, you know.

01:41:58

>> Um sort of comes around to that time of

01:42:00

the year and it's like it hits again.

01:42:05

>> It's sort of a reminder. M

01:42:07

>> um and but it I I think it it's also a

01:42:11

good reminder for for myself. It gives

01:42:14

me a bit of a checkup.

01:42:16

>> Um yeah, where I can

01:42:20

actually think about it and say, "Yep,

01:42:23

that situation happened. Here we are

01:42:25

today. Let's go."

01:42:28

>> Yeah. How often Yeah. How often do you

01:42:31

catch yourself um thinking about Dawn

01:42:33

and his family now? So, is it is it like

01:42:35

a like a weekly thing, a monthly thing,

01:42:37

a daily thing? Is it just always there

01:42:39

or

01:42:41

>> uh it's not always there? Um but

01:42:45

like like

01:42:47

at least a few times a year, you know,

01:42:50

>> I'm always thinking about their family.

01:42:51

>> Yeah.

01:42:52

>> Um especially about uh and especially

01:42:54

cuz we have a relationship with the

01:42:56

brother now.

01:42:57

>> He's been over home, had a coffee and

01:42:59

and stuff like that. We've had dinner

01:43:01

with him and and things like that. and

01:43:03

he's met our daughter

01:43:05

>> and whatnot and like yeah so and also on

01:43:10

social media like always see them pop up

01:43:12

and yeah

01:43:16

>> like they're big people.

01:43:19

>> Yeah.

01:43:20

>> Amazing. Like to have a heart like that

01:43:24

is is is

01:43:27

nothing that you come across every day,

01:43:29

you know. Um because there's forgiveness

01:43:33

um like on different levels like I

01:43:34

suppose they could forgive you for

01:43:35

selfish reasons just because they don't

01:43:37

want to be hanging on to that hurt

01:43:39

>> but then to come and visit you and

01:43:41

engage with you on social media that's

01:43:43

like um

01:43:44

>> well that's sincere and genuine

01:43:46

forgiveness.

01:43:46

>> That's right. And like for that example

01:43:50

of coming over home, like he was going

01:43:53

through

01:43:55

our our town heading to go see his

01:43:58

family and he flick me a message to say

01:44:01

that he's passing through and that he

01:44:02

wants to stop in,

01:44:03

>> you know, like just to actually have

01:44:05

that go through that process of, you

01:44:08

know, wanting to come and see me is

01:44:10

huge. So yeah, there is forgiveness and

01:44:13

then there's this

01:44:14

>> you know this is on another level

01:44:18

and you know I'm grateful and honored

01:44:21

like to have that in my life cuz yeah

01:44:26

again I probably wouldn't have forgiven

01:44:30

myself without that process taking

01:44:32

place.

01:44:34

>> What about your co-offenders?

01:44:37

Do you know what they're up to? No,

01:44:39

>> no,

01:44:40

>> no, not at all.

01:44:41

>> Um, yeah, last I heard they were still

01:44:45

in jail

01:44:46

>> and yeah, sort of,

01:44:49

>> you know,

01:44:50

>> like they must be so jealous of you, but

01:44:52

like it's none of this has been easy and

01:44:54

no one else can do the work. Nikki can't

01:44:56

do the work for you.

01:44:57

>> No,

01:44:57

>> no one else can do the work for you. You

01:44:59

have to do it yourself. But they must be

01:45:00

so jealous cuz you've you've done it and

01:45:03

you found happiness on the on the other

01:45:04

side of all that hard work.

01:45:06

>> Um, yeah. Oh, I don't know if I'll call

01:45:09

it jealous. Um, I don't know how they

01:45:12

would be feeling to be honest. But hey,

01:45:14

if if if the shoe was on the other foot

01:45:17

and I seen one of my co-offenders doing

01:45:20

really well, bro, I would be like, [ __ ]

01:45:23

it's possible.

01:45:25

>> And if he can do it, why can't I?

01:45:28

>> Um, if he's where he is, then how come I

01:45:32

can't get there?

01:45:33

>> What's stopping me from getting there?

01:45:36

And to be honest, I would probably take

01:45:37

it to another step like I was saying

01:45:39

once I'm tunnel vision that that's it.

01:45:42

>> Um and ask them how did you do it?

01:45:47

>> What is the

01:45:50

>> Yeah, show me the steps. Show me the

01:45:51

path.

01:45:52

>> What's the recipe?

01:45:52

>> Yeah.

01:45:53

>> To to this and my answer would be the

01:45:57

support around you.

01:45:59

>> That is really important. Um and also

01:46:03

selfbelief.

01:46:05

believe it in yourself. Um that selft

01:46:08

talk um you know just I guess backing

01:46:12

yourself

01:46:14

>> you need a ya like if the why is strong

01:46:15

enough you'll figure out the how.

01:46:17

>> Yeah.

01:46:18

>> Where do you see yourself um in the

01:46:20

future? Like where do you see yourself

01:46:21

at 40 50

01:46:24

>> traveling the world? Do you

01:46:25

>> I hope.

01:46:26

>> Yeah. Where Yeah. What's the story with

01:46:28

that? Do travel restrictions get lifted

01:46:30

after a

01:46:31

>> N not with three charges e manslaughter,

01:46:33

murder and and rape. I think they stay

01:46:36

with you forever. Don't quote me on

01:46:38

that, but yeah, I'm pretty sure it's

01:46:40

those three. And we've been to Thailand.

01:46:45

We just recently went to Thailand. Uh

01:46:47

been there twice and then we went to

01:46:49

Raaro with my whole family. But you

01:46:52

know, even going to Raaro was was wasn't

01:46:55

easy. still have to apply and and stuff

01:46:58

like that. Um and yeah, and definitely

01:47:01

can't get into Aussie. So

01:47:04

>> really

01:47:04

>> can can scratch that one. Um yeah,

01:47:07

applied four times and been denied four

01:47:09

times. So yeah,

01:47:11

>> I want to know where the antic spirits

01:47:13

at.

01:47:14

>> And I want given that that was uh that

01:47:16

was originally a a colony where my

01:47:20

convicts from the UK were sent.

01:47:21

>> That's where they were all sent was

01:47:23

there.

01:47:24

They stop letting criminals in.

01:47:26

>> Yeah.

01:47:27

>> But yeah, it's um Hey, I got a lot of

01:47:31

fun in Aussie and I would love to go to

01:47:33

Australia.

01:47:34

>> Um and like yeah, I got my my my little

01:47:38

sister over there as well who's just had

01:47:40

her had her baby and I would love to go

01:47:42

visit them.

01:47:44

>> Um but unfortunately these are the

01:47:46

consequences of my actions.

01:47:48

>> And hey, I've got to I've got to wear

01:47:50

that. Mhm.

01:47:51

>> Um, and yeah, that's just that's life.

01:47:54

E.

01:47:55

>> Yeah.

01:47:55

>> But I think where do I see myself in the

01:47:58

future is

01:48:03

I think like with our clothing and that

01:48:05

we want to take that to another level.

01:48:07

Um, and also with farming with with the

01:48:12

farming industry. Um, you know, we we'll

01:48:17

eventually get to ownership uh for sure.

01:48:20

And like we had this massive ass dream

01:48:22

dom of setting up a farm for for guys

01:48:25

coming out of jail.

01:48:26

>> Sort of like a a halfway uh before they

01:48:29

go on to full-time employment. You know,

01:48:31

we had this massive dream of of getting

01:48:33

that all going. And you know, there's so

01:48:35

many people that that are keen to jump

01:48:37

on board. It's just, you know, we're

01:48:40

financially not able to do that

01:48:42

>> yet

01:48:42

>> and yet and, you know, it's quite a big

01:48:46

project to be honest,

01:48:48

>> but I think it'll be really rewarding to

01:48:50

get that up and going.

01:48:52

>> Um, and help people

01:48:56

get to where I am and beyond. You know,

01:48:59

just imagine that more people coming out

01:49:01

of jail and changing their lives and,

01:49:04

you know, becoming, it's not even just

01:49:06

in the farming industry. It could be in

01:49:08

any any industry to be honest.

01:49:10

>> Um but there's just nothing at the

01:49:12

moment

01:49:13

>> for people coming out of jail.

01:49:16

>> You get out of jail with a criminal

01:49:17

record, there's no way that you're

01:49:19

getting a job.

01:49:20

>> Uh so how can we bridge that gap? And

01:49:23

yeah, I feel like a a transition farm or

01:49:26

or something that's going to help

01:49:28

support them with whatever issues that

01:49:30

they have will really help that

01:49:33

situation.

01:49:35

>> That's a good goal. Yeah,

01:49:36

>> it's a good goal. Are you proud of

01:49:37

yourself?

01:49:38

>> Definitely definitely proud of myself.

01:49:41

I'm probably more um proud of my wife

01:49:45

for stay with me to be honest.

01:49:48

Like I don't know why or how you know

01:49:52

like but I'm so

01:49:54

>> I have to get her on a podcast to unpack

01:49:56

all that.

01:49:56

>> Oh no, thank you.

01:50:00

>> Uh but no, she's she's got an amazing

01:50:03

story too, you know. Um, yeah, she's

01:50:07

Yeah, I've got to give it up to her like

01:50:10

not just for sticking with me, but

01:50:13

for getting us here

01:50:15

as much as people say, "Well, you done

01:50:17

the mahi. You you showed up to the

01:50:19

awards and all that sort of stuff." But

01:50:22

without having her beside me,

01:50:27

bro, this I wouldn't have been able to

01:50:29

do it. like, yeah, I needed her um every

01:50:33

step of this way because she she knows

01:50:37

me. She knows my

01:50:40

I guess my um

01:50:43

my struggles and all that sort of stuff.

01:50:44

And you know, she sort of knows where to

01:50:46

fill in

01:50:47

>> and and show up so and encourage

01:50:51

um and yeah, she's she's amazing.

01:50:57

>> I reckon that's a good place to end it.

01:50:59

Yeah.

01:51:00

>> Yeah. Nice bow on the chat. How's it

01:51:02

been? You You've been anxious about this

01:51:05

for the last couple of days.

01:51:06

>> I know. I feel I could carry on talking

01:51:08

to you for the rest of the day, to be

01:51:10

honest.

01:51:11

>> Has it been all right?

01:51:12

>> It has. Um Yeah. Thank you for this

01:51:14

opportunity. Hey, um the nerves aren't

01:51:17

there anymore, but hey,

01:51:22

yeah, I'm very grateful to to have this

01:51:25

opportunity, Dom, to be honest.

01:51:26

>> Yeah. Oh, thanks for being here today,

01:51:28

Ben. And um thanks for sharing. I know

01:51:30

there there'll be a lot of people that

01:51:31

get a lot out of this conversation. No,

01:51:32

>> thank you.

01:51:33

>> That's cool.

01:51:35

>> Nice work, brother.

01:51:36

>> Cheers.

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Episode Highlights

Ben Padua's Podcast Debut
Ben shares his nerves about being on the podcast, calling it a big deal.
“This is a big deal, bro.”
@ 01m 19s
July 30, 2025
Learning to Read
Ben discusses his journey of learning to read as an adult, highlighting his growth.
“I can read now.”
@ 13m 05s
July 30, 2025
A Holiday Turned Troubling
What was supposed to be a holiday in Australia turned into a struggle away from home.
“"I struggled over there without my mom and stuff like that."”
@ 22m 11s
July 30, 2025
The Arrest
The moment of arrest brings a crushing realization of the consequences of his actions.
“"You're under arrest for the murder of Don."”
@ 30m 35s
July 30, 2025
Life in Prison
Incarceration at a young age leads to unexpected challenges and mental health struggles.
“"I tried committing suicide maybe a handful of times while I was inside."”
@ 41m 49s
July 30, 2025
The Journey to Farming
Farming in prison provided a sense of freedom and new skills for the inmates.
“I fell in love with the freedom of being out on the land.”
@ 52m 03s
July 30, 2025
Rock Bottom
Returning to prison marked a low point, leading to a critical turning point in life.
“That was probably rock bottom was their last stint.”
@ 01h 03m 50s
July 30, 2025
The Power of Forgiveness
Meeting the victim's family and hearing the words "we forgive" changed everything for him.
“The three words that really set me free were 'we forgive'.”
@ 01h 08m 41s
July 30, 2025
Finding Support
Grateful for the farmers who believed in him despite his past, providing him a second chance.
“They kept my job open and supported my family while I was in jail.”
@ 01h 17m 22s
July 30, 2025
Redemption and Judgment
Navigating the challenges of past mistakes and societal judgment while striving for a better future.
“The judgment's always going to be there, but I believe in myself.”
@ 01h 29m 05s
July 30, 2025
Building a Community through Clothing
Launching a clothing line to support families in need and promote a positive lifestyle.
“We started this clothing to help people with Kai.”
@ 01h 36m 24s
July 30, 2025
A Dream of Support
He envisions a transition farm to help ex-convicts reintegrate into society.
“Just imagine more people coming out of jail and changing their lives.”
@ 01h 48m 59s
July 30, 2025

Episode Quotes

Key Moments

Learning Journey13:05
Finding Freedom52:40
Forgiveness Encounter1:10:01
Supportive Community1:17:22
Fatherhood Commitment1:25:54
Resilience1:33:17
Community Support1:36:56
Support System1:50:10

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown

Confronting Steve Braunias - NZ’s Most Provocative Journalist

01:44:20

Confronting Steve Braunias - NZ’s Most Provocative Journalist

All Blacks Legend Frano Botica: Truth About Buck Shelford & WILD Fight In Argentina

October 12, 2025

01:45:10

All Blacks Legend Frano Botica: Truth About Buck Shelford & WILD Fight In Argentina

K’Lee: From Pop Star to Survivor – Abuse, Trauma & Resilience

02:30:16

K’Lee: From Pop Star to Survivor – Abuse, Trauma & Resilience

Bryce Casey on Miscarriage, Mental Health & What Fatherhood Taught Him

August 24, 2025

02:16:28

Bryce Casey on Miscarriage, Mental Health & What Fatherhood Taught Him

Robbie Magasiva Opens Up on Loss of Pua Magasiva

01:37:33

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