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Ben Padua, welcome to my podcast. >> Yeah, thanks Dom. We were just um you,
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by the way, you you bought me a gift. You bought me a crayfish, which is wonderful. And uh it's freshly caught.
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>> Yeah. So, we went out diving uh late last night and we got out of the water
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maybe just after midnight. Um yeah, got our limit of craze and got a few kina for another um actually content creator
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that's up here in Tamaki. Uh so yeah, he's going to be doing something with uh
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is it um the rugby from USA. So right >> who's the content creator? >> Uh Louis Davis.
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>> I've had him on the podcast as well. >> Oh yes. Yes. >> Make him He's always in the ocean. Get
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him Make him get his own crayfish. >> Yeah. Oh, he was in he was in Tamaki and
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then he put a post up um any any divers that can get some some ka or one can anyways. Um so yeah.
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>> Amazing. And you while you went to the car to get the crayfish, um your wife
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Nikki told me that you're real nervous. She said she's never seen you this
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nervous. She said you were nervous yesterday about doing the podcast. >> Yeah. Um
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>> what's up? >> I don't know. I just I just think this is a big deal, bro. Um,
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>> she told also told me you didn't even know who I was. >> I Yeah, I heard of you on on radio and
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stuff like that. But yeah, um I don't know, just seen some of the names that
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you've interviewed over the over the time and yeah, I think that this is a pretty pretty big deal and you know, I'm
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pretty honored to be honest. >> Oh man. Well, I'm honored to have you here as well.
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>> So, first up, um, who is Ben Padua? Um, so I was born and bread in Puko. Um, yeah,
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just born on the dark side and grew up over there. Um, yeah, currently a dairy farmer in the
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South Wat um family man. So, got my beautiful wife who's here with me today and got three
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girls. uh my my daughter Sam who's 3 years old and our two older girls who are currently up here in in Oakland uh
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studying at university. So yeah. >> Awesome. You seem happy and content. >> Yeah, life is is pretty good at the
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moment. It's pretty hectic, but >> yeah, I I think if it if it wasn't, I'll
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probably be getting myself in trouble. >> Did you like say say 20 years ago, did
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you ever imagine life could be as good as what it is now? >> Oh, no way. No way. Um, yeah. So,
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oh, never thought that I would be here, >> to be honest. >> Let's go back. Um, yeah. So, how old are
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you now? >> Um, 30, >> right? >> Yeah. 30. >> Didn't you win Young Farmer? You're not
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that young. >> Yeah. >> Um, so the the cut off date is 31 for young for young, bro. So, I'm still in
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the bracket at the moment. just just lived >> so 30 now. Okay. So, um paint a picture
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of those um yeah early years in Pokoi. >> M um so yeah grew up in in dysfunction
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surrounded um and born into into the gangs and stuff like that. Um but you know what
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Faro was was awesome, bro. Um I my mom, you know, even though she had her struggles, you know, she really done
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what she could uh in in the upbringing. Um you know, to try and provide for for us, she was she was on her own and she
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had all of all of well myself and and my siblings to try and put Kai on the table. So she was she was pretty hard
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worker. >> Um >> how many siblings? >> So nine of us. >> Yeah.
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>> Yeah. in total. Um, but you know, all of us were sort of I never knew my my older
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brother until he was 14, 15. >> Yeah. Is when I sort of met my older brother for the first time. Um, he lived
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with our our biological father. And yeah, I grew up with my mom, my older sister, and and my younger siblings. And
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yeah, so my sister, yeah, she she done a lot of mahi while with with us siblings anyway when mom was at work
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and stuff like that. So >> did you do you have a relationship with your dad or much of a relationship?
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>> Not at all. I didn't know my father growing up. >> Uh he left before I was born and
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I've actually got another brother, a half brother, and we were both the same
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age. So >> yeah, put two and two together. He jumped the fence. >> Yeah.
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>> Um and yeah, so yeah, never knew my dad um until four or five years ago.
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>> Yeah. I sort of went on this journey of self-discovery and you know that was
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sort of missing link for me >> and you know I heard all the stories sort of about my dad growing up you know
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that he was a bad man and stuff like that and he was horrible etc and you know I
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that was the only picture I could paint of him and I wanted to know him myself so when I was old enough and yeah with
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the help of my wife actually um was able to find him in Fang Hospital and I sort
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of documented it on on YouTube. Um, meeting him for the very first time and yeah, he wasn't in a good good way. He
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had heart conditions and and stuff like that. Um, he just finished having a stint put in and and whatnot and yeah,
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so unfortunately that was the last time I got to meet him. Um, oh no, actually there's one more time
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after that at the hospital and yeah, that was pretty much it after after that. Um, he ended up passing away not
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long after. So >> you mentioned before um the gang involvement and stuff. So was was your
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mom connected to the gangs or was she just seeing gang members or >> um so my whole far I so my whole family
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all all in in the gangs and yeah like my uncles and all all my role models growing up uh were were all in
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the gangs and then had my stepdad uh who pretty much brought brought me up. He he
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was in the in the black pal as well. >> Uh who my mom was was with. And yeah, I
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seen a whole lot of ugly stuff. But you know, on the other hand, also seen um I guess
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yeah, some love. Um >> what sort of ugly stuff? um like the the the drugs, the alcohol,
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the party life, um the domestic violence and stuff like that, family violence, all all that sort of ugliness. Um
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you know, when that stuff wasn't around, it was actually pretty good. >> Yeah.
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>> When when the when the drugs and all that weren't in the picture and alcohol,
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for sure. >> Alcohol was probably the bigger one. Um, yeah. So, when those things went in in
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the picture, things were actually, you know, pretty good. >> It's it's a rough start, eh?
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>> Yeah, it is. >> You're on the back foot immediately. >> Yeah. And when you grow up in that
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environment, you just think it's normal. >> Well, it's all you know.
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>> Yeah. So, that's all >> that's all I pretty much knew growing
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up. And I was sort of I had some some good memories in my upbringing as well, especially with my uncle um as gang
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member and stuff like that uh for my 8th birthday come pick me up from school with some of my mates and took us out to
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KFC, you know. So those are some of my sort of earlier memories um of some of my role models, you know. So,
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>> it's funny that that st stand stands out cuz um you know being picked up from
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school and going to KFC you know I suppose if you've had like a like a I don't know like a privileged upbringing
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like me that's just one of those things that you may not even remember but for
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you it's a foundational memory. >> Yeah, I remember it quite vividly like
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Yeah. Like always used to deal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um and you know like poverty is is
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a massive thing you know >> and that brings so much dysfunction with it e so yeah when I got that that day I
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felt like I was on top of the world to be honest got to go to KFC and my uncle took me to
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the $2 shop and stuff like that and then um yeah got to grab me a few few toys and I think I got me a gun little toy a
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gun and and whatnot and went back to school. >> Were Were you Were you um Were you a
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good kid? >> Oh, [ __ ] I probably couldn't probably not probably not to be honest. Um yeah, I
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was bit selective here. >> I think a lot of kids like that. But did did you know did you know right from
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wrong? >> Um I knew what I knew. M >> hey I that's all I knew. I didn't really
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know whether it was right or wrong. Whatever that I was doing I was doing cuz I seen it.
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>> Um and yeah I guess you become a product of of the environment that you're in. So
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you know whatever that you see you end up becoming that. So >> when did you start going off the rails?
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>> Not when you getting in trouble at at primary school or anything. I actually
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struggled at school. Um >> learning or >> Yeah, I I struggled with learning cuz I
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couldn't read or write. Um so yeah, school for me was real difficult >> and I I felt like I
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become the class clown so that people didn't know that I had a reading disability or learning disability or
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anything like that. So I just played up um and sort of played it off, you know. So
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>> yeah, I didn't get people didn't get smart or anything. >> Yeah.
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>> You get in trouble at school. Class class clown is um you generally a pathway to trouble.
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>> Yeah. Um I got suspended and expelled from from school. >> Yeah. >> What for?
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>> Fighting. >> Yeah. For fighting. And so got expelled from Narawaha High School uh for
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fighting and cuz from Puki mom moved us down to the Watau uh to Naraja and I went to went to school there. It was
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cool. Um made some really good friends there but yeah just struggled e >> especially when you can't read or write
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it's real hard. Math math was probably my best subject to be honest. I knew how
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to count. And >> can Can you read all right now? >> I can now. I probably learned about five
00:11:46
years ago. >> Unreal. Really? >> Yeah. >> How hard is it? I can't imagine like
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learning to do that stuff as um like a grown ass man in your 20s. >> Yeah. So, oh, I was fortunate enough
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through um the primary itto stuff which is course to do with uh dairy farming and and farming and through that I was
00:12:05
able to get some support. Um, so they were able to get me like a laptop and and a tutor and and stuff like that. Um,
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they helped me learn to read and write. Uh, which was which was crazy. And and I
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was going to course one day and and the teacher was like, "Oh, can you read this
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paragraph out?" I was like, "Um, no, I can't." She was like, "What? It's
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just that little paragraph. Can you just read it out, please?" It's like, oh, I
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can't do it. was like, "Yeah." And then >> is that humiliating or
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>> It was um you know, it was quite hard. Uh and then from that moment she was
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like, "No, we can get you help." Like if you really want help, we we'll get it
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for you. >> And so, yeah, the my tutor and also my um training advisor at that time, yeah,
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put in the work and got me the support that I needed to start my journey of learning to read and write. And yeah,
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now I can I can read. >> Good for you. Have you read a book? >> Um I haven't read a whole book.
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>> Um yeah, my >> You can though. You can read a book. >> I can.
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>> Yeah. >> Awesome. >> And sure, that's cool. >> Uh yeah, probably on on the path of
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actually writing my own. >> No way. >> Yeah. >> Excellent. Well, I'll be the first to
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buy a copy. So, >> yeah. Um, so when you go to school, so so all you know is um the household
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that you're brought up in, but then you go to school, you meet other kids, you
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have friends, you go to their houses. >> Is that is that um for you? Like is that sort of a moment
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where you realize, okay, my household's not normal, this is normal? >> Yeah, I I've shared this before actually
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and you know I I was about maybe around seven eight somewhere there and I got the first got
00:14:05
my first opportunity to go stay at a mate's house and yeah we went there and
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um was a sleepover and yeah I got to see a whole new world e so his dad was a was a police officer
00:14:21
his mom was a hard worker and real loving family and you know I was friends with with him and his and his brother.
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We all went to school together and yeah, I just got to see a whole different picture to to what I seen in in our
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household. Uh which was a whole lot of love and and um I guess a present father, you know, and
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I actually felt jealous of it. I felt envious about that. um to the point where you know I sort of started hating
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on my mate and um yeah got off to some dumb [ __ ] and ended up um yeah doing I guess wrong by by them
00:15:05
>> what what did you do? What's the dumb [ __ ] >> Uh so I ended up robbing their house
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because I felt jealous of that relationship that he had with his father because I I didn't have it. Um, yeah,
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>> that's heartbreaking. >> Yeah. So, I I always wanted a wanted a
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father. >> I always wanted a dad. And when I seen that, so the situation that I seen was
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it was bedtime. And the dad come in the room. And he goes, "Oh, good night,
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boys. Love you, son." That that moment hit me, bro. Hit me. I was like, "What
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is this? I've never ever heard that before from a man. Um, and yeah, it it hit home and I I got real thing
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about it and yeah, sort of got jealous and that led to to to that situation. I'm getting emotional hearing that,
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>> man. That's that's rough. >> Sorry, mate. >> Yeah. No, that's really that's really
00:16:14
rough. And I can I can tell it's hard. I can tell you you feel shame like telling
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the story. Like >> it's not an easy story for you to share now, is it?
00:16:21
>> No. And like I feel [ __ ] for doing that to them. But >> like in that moment,
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>> [ __ ] I was just feeling all this ugliness and and that was my reaction to
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it, you know? >> And I I end up getting punished for that. So yeah. >> And did you buy who? Oh, so either
00:16:43
calling my mom and and whatnot and she was like, "No, cool. I'm getting him
00:16:47
down there and he can come and clean your house and and whatnot and yeah, so had to pay it all back and and whatnot."
00:16:55
But you know, that was the situation that I put myself in. Um, but yeah, that was through that whole thing around
00:17:02
jealousy and rejection. You know, rejection was was huge. >> Yeah. M >> when uh was your introduction to like
00:17:10
drugs and alcohol? >> My first my first taste of marijuana was I was seven, eight. Yeah, I was about seven or
00:17:22
eight. Um >> where's that? Did you steal it or was it given to you or?
00:17:25
>> No. So there's this time where all my cousins in there, we all stayed in the same
00:17:31
house. Um but it was there was so many of us all in this one and yeah one of my cousins gave me a spot just a
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>> How old was your cousin? >> He would have been like 15 16 or something like that.
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>> That is so wrong. >> Yeah. And I would have been like seven or eight and they were they were having
00:17:52
a sesh and I was just there. Is your one? I was like yeah whatever. Had one. I was smashed.
00:18:00
I was smashed. I ended up eating a whole tub of peanut butter after that. Oh, and um anyway, my mom come home that
00:18:11
night and yeah, she she didn't know. Um yeah, I was I was smashed. >> Was um was an enjoyable experience or
00:18:21
was it frightening? Like I'm I'm just thinking like I'm probably projecting
00:18:25
here, but if I was seven or eight and I was intoxicated, >> I think it'd be quite a scary feeling
00:18:29
for me. It it was out of it. Yeah. Um but I think the scary thing for me was when my
00:18:39
mom come home and I was stay. So I was trying to pretend that I was asleep. >> But yeah.
00:18:46
>> So there there was some like love and discipline in your household from your
00:18:49
mom. Eh. >> Yeah. She you know she she done the best she could man with with the situation
00:18:55
that she had. I say that I say people generally do the best they can with the resources and tools they've got at the
00:19:01
time. >> Yeah, that's right. >> And the thing is like you're um you're a
00:19:04
good dad, but you you'll be doing things right now that that'll [ __ ] your kids up
00:19:07
and they'll be angry with you one day. >> Yeah, for sure. >> And then they'll have kids and it's the
00:19:11
same sort of thing, but you just do the best you can. >> Yeah. And um you know, she she was
00:19:17
loving. She is loving. >> Um and yeah, she was a hard worker. Real hard worker. always at mahi um to try
00:19:25
and put Kai on the table. You know, I remember having to talk to my mom and that's what she thought love was. Just
00:19:31
making sure that we had Kai in our stomach >> and a roof over our head. >> Um you know, not actually realizing that
00:19:39
I love you was was, you know, heaps as well. >> Did she never sort of say that?
00:19:46
>> Not when I was growing up. I don't think maybe a few times, but now Yeah. She
00:19:53
says it quite a lot. >> Yeah, >> that's that's really sad. >> It's um but you know starting to hear
00:20:03
about her journey >> and how she grew up like Yeah. Um, I would love to actually hear a lot more
00:20:12
about my mom's journey to be honest cuz you know we grow up and become adults
00:20:17
and you know our parents or my mom for example she just done everything to get us you know to here and then we don't
00:20:26
actually know what she went through you know so >> I would actually love to know more about
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my mom's story and >> you know yeah >> well it's not too late eh
00:20:35
>> no it's never too late um you M yeah just the reasons why a lot of a lot of
00:20:43
things were the way that they were you know. >> Yeah. >> So um we seven or eight. Um what about
00:20:51
um alcohol and meth? >> Um so yeah I was a hard out. I loved I loved weed.
00:21:00
>> Um to the point where I my nickname was blazed. >> At what age? Uh, so I got that given to
00:21:06
me maybe I was still quite young, 10, 11. >> Wow. >> Um, yeah, I got that from my cousins and my
00:21:15
brothers. >> And yeah, I I wasn't really much of a drinker. I I did start sort of drinking
00:21:26
um when I come back from Aussie. So I got the opportunity well mom sent me over to
00:21:34
Australia for for a holiday with my uncle and you know that that was probably a really good time.
00:21:41
>> What age was that? >> I would have been 10 11. Yeah. >> Somewhere around there. Sort of when I
00:21:47
was just starting to go off the rails, you know. Mom sort of um sent me over to Australia with my uncle for it was only
00:21:55
supposed to be for a holiday and I ended up staying over there for a bit. Um and yeah, my uncle, he was really
00:22:03
loving. Um you know, and my auntie and yeah, they sort of just gave the best that they could.
00:22:11
>> But yeah, I I struggled over there without my mom and stuff like that like
00:22:17
Yeah. >> So you came back to New Zealand >> and then um is it that when you get
00:22:23
introduced to alcohol? Uh, I I had a few drinks here and there, but yeah, it sort of started taking it
00:22:31
on real hard when I when I got sent home. >> So, I got into some trouble over in over
00:22:36
in Australia at school. >> Um, got suspended and and my uncle said, "One more hiccup and you're going home."
00:22:45
And that was the end of the story. And anyway, I had a bit of a hiccup at at school and it was over a stupid hat, you
00:22:51
know, didn't want to take my hat off in class because I couldn't read. All
00:22:54
right. You know, I was just playing up, right? >> Yeah. >> And that that thing led to another and
00:23:01
um yeah, Michael, oh, you're getting on a plane and you're going home and I did the
00:23:06
runner. I ran away uh for a but I didn't want to come home. >> Um yeah, I really really enjoyed being
00:23:14
with my uncle and yeah, unfortunately I stuffed that up. M >> so June 27, 2010.
00:23:26
>> M >> So there's a rugby game on All Blacks Wales. >> Yeah.
00:23:30
>> Yeah. Talk us through that day. >> It was just a typical day to start off
00:23:38
with. Um yeah, I guess around lunchtime caught off the boys. Um, and we were having a few
00:23:49
drinks. There was no sort of plan to go into town or anything like that at all. And
00:23:56
anyway, we met up with a few other boys uh from our neighborhood in in Hamilton.
00:24:02
And yeah, there was one lot going to a party that was was in in our hood and the other boys were going to town. And
00:24:13
yeah, I had two choices to make whether to go to the hood or go to town. And I chose to go to town.
00:24:19
>> Um, and yeah, that situation went south real quick. >> Um, you know, we weren't in town for
00:24:29
long, uh, before we were in a fight with some Wales supporters. um you know for no reason really know
00:24:38
they just yelled out of their taxi stuff the all blacks or something like that and that was enough to sort of
00:24:46
trigger it you know we were sort of already intoxicated uh we had had some um some drugs that night so
00:24:55
>> what did you have >> meth and and some some weed and stuff like that
00:25:00
>> but yeah just heaps of alcohol um And yeah, that sort of led to to to that
00:25:08
fight um with with the whale supporters. And yeah, we needed an escape out of town before we before we sort of got
00:25:16
caught. And there was a car there that was there was idling and we thought that cool, we'll take this car and we'll get
00:25:23
out of here. Um and yeah, the owner sort of sort of come out and yeah, the situation went went south. Um
00:25:34
>> yeah. So the owner of the car um 74 year old man called uh Donald Stewart.
00:25:41
>> So didn't know him from a barite. >> And there's you and how many of your
00:25:45
mates? >> Uh there was three of us in in total. Yeah. >> Yeah. So three all the same age?
00:25:52
>> Uh two of one was 14, I was 15, and our other co-offender was 18. M so even just
00:26:00
thinking about that you know a 14 and a 15year-old in town drinking >> just sounds so wrong
00:26:11
>> so so Donald Stewart comes out of the is it a toilet public toilet >> yeah so he leaves his car outside goes
00:26:18
into the L comes out then what happens >> um oh I was my part I played was trying
00:26:25
to steal the car >> so I was trying to steal of the car and yeah, my co-offender
00:26:33
um I guess punched him and yeah, that was sort of sort of it. Um we just thought that he had knocked him out and
00:26:43
we took off in in in his car >> and and it wasn't until maybe 3 4 days
00:26:50
later um that we realized that the guy had actually died. M >> how did how did you hear that or find
00:26:58
out? >> Um I seen it actually on the front page of the newspaper >> right
00:27:04
>> of the white times um that my mom was reading. >> All right. >> So she was what do you So yes so so um
00:27:15
yes. So so you take the car at that point. Are you guys laughing and joking like it's uh
00:27:20
>> well the guy who king hit him he was just so intoxicated he was in the back.
00:27:25
He went to sleep. He He was gone. >> Um we were pretty drunk, but yeah, we
00:27:32
got out of town. >> But But at that point, you like you're not worried or anything. You're just
00:27:36
like sick. We got a car. We got a ride home. >> We We got away from town. >> Yeah.
00:27:41
>> Yeah. So there was no sort of, you know, we weren't running from nothing. There
00:27:46
was no worries about anything else. Just we've got the stolen car, which for for
00:27:51
us was a daily daily thing, you know. Um, yeah. So, >> so then you Yeah. you go home, carry on
00:28:00
with life, and then your mom's reading the paper. What What is What does that
00:28:05
feel like at that moment? Are you like, "Oh, fuck." >> I didn't even tell anyone.
00:28:09
>> Right. >> I never say anything. >> So, my mom was sitting at the bus stop
00:28:14
and just out from our house. Yeah. Yeah, she had the newspaper in her hand and she was reading the way and I just seen
00:28:21
the front um cover and yeah, it was the car. >> It was the car actually. >> Oh, oh, you couldn't even read the story
00:28:29
if you wanted to at that point. >> So, it was just the car that was on the
00:28:33
front and I was like, "What the hell?" And Yeah. Um Yeah. And then um you you talk to your mates about it,
00:28:48
your mates that you're in town with. You're like, "Fuck, we're in we're in
00:28:51
the [ __ ] here, boys." >> Yeah. Caught up with this, bro. Have you heard? And no. What? And it was actually
00:28:59
that day we all got pulled up. >> You at that point, are you thinking, "I'm not I'm not going to be in too much
00:29:07
trouble or are you like, [ __ ] we're all we're all screwed here." >> You know what I mean? cuz you didn't.
00:29:13
>> No, I didn't really think much of it. I just thought, "Oh, we're done for
00:29:18
stealing a car." >> Like we were young and didn't really think too much about things
00:29:26
>> and yeah, I just thought we'll just get a slap on the hand for for stealing
00:29:30
another car. Um, but no, it was it was a lot bigger than that. got taken in and sort of went into the interrogation sort
00:29:38
of uh setting and it all just started like we're taking bloody samples out of your fingernails
00:29:47
and taking your hair follicles and you know it was crazy. >> Um all your clothes got to come off.
00:29:55
They've got to go into a bag and you've got to go into these clothes so that
00:29:59
we've got evidence and and whatnot. And it sort of just Yeah, it was probably
00:30:06
the most daunting experience >> to sort of think that you were just somebody walking on the street and now
00:30:15
you're getting questioned for for murder. >> Yeah. When when did you Yeah. When was
00:30:22
the moment you realized the seriousness of it or you you learned like that you were going to be charged with
00:30:28
manslaughter? Um, from the moment I was walking on that street and a police officer pulled
00:30:34
up right next to me and said, "You're under arrest for the murder of Don."
00:30:37
Yeah. >> That very moment. So, you know, >> what that feel like? Like your world was
00:30:46
closing in? >> Oh, I just felt like it was all over. My whole life was that's it. It's over.
00:30:53
Um and yeah, got taken straight to the to the police station in Watau and um yeah, the questioning started straight
00:31:03
away as soon as we got there. >> And then um you do you get um bailed or anything or you go straight to juvie?
00:31:14
>> Um shucks. I think the whole questioning part took like a whole day to be honest.
00:31:21
Um yeah, they're trying to squeeze information out of us and being that young um didn't really want to talk
00:31:30
about stuff >> and didn't want to, you know, sort of throw anyone else under the table or
00:31:35
anything like that. >> But yeah, I think from there I got handcuffed and taken straight to juvie.
00:31:43
Yeah. >> What's that like? >> Um that process was pretty daunting too.
00:31:48
>> How so? Uh just, you know, going through the strip searching process and stuff
00:31:54
like that where you got to take off all your clothes, lift your nuts and all that sort of stuff and squat down, cough
00:32:01
is quite um shucks, how can you put it? >> It can be quite >> demoralizing, I guess.
00:32:10
>> Yeah. >> And did you at this particular moment in time, did you did you feel like a sense of
00:32:16
injustice like this is [ __ ] Like I didn't even, you know, speak. Yeah, >> for sure. Um
00:32:26
>> Yeah, cuz I was like, well, I didn't kill nobody. I didn't do that. But
00:32:33
>> um my I guess now I I sort of see it different. you know, I I take full
00:32:39
responsibility for for the role that I played because there is another family involved and you know, um
00:32:48
yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you're completely different person now. If you were still
00:32:54
the same person, we probably wouldn't be sitting down having this conversation
00:32:57
today. >> Um but yeah, that's part of the um inspiring bit of your story, I guess. Um
00:33:03
just the transformation and the change. >> Yeah. >> Um we'll go through all that. Yeah. So
00:33:07
you spent a year on remand in the juvenile detention center. >> Yeah, I think it was just over a year uh
00:33:14
that I was on remand and then I went up uh so I was charged with with murder then. Um
00:33:22
and yeah, sitting on remand waiting to go to court and anyway during that time I actually got
00:33:31
an opportunity to um to seek bail. Uh, so I was able to get out on electronic bail,
00:33:38
>> uh, which I, yeah, I I ended up getting it, so I was quite stoked with that. So
00:33:44
I could go home, uh, for for a little period there. And, um, yeah, dumb choices again by myself. Uh,
00:33:54
cut it off. I cut the bracelet off and went on the run for for a few months. Um,
00:34:01
done a whole another range of dumb stuff. Uh and then yeah, got caught and went straight back inside.
00:34:08
And yeah, when I finally went up to went up for um my my court hearing and I could there was two options on on the
00:34:21
table. I could go to trial and and try and beat the case, which is what I wanted to do. Um, or I could take the
00:34:32
manslaughter charge, which was the lesser charge, and you get whatever was going to come with that.
00:34:39
>> But had I lost um the trial, I would be looking at life in prison. >> Oh, sort of like a plea deal.
00:34:46
>> Yeah. >> Right. Uh so I sort of weighed things up and you know I say well
00:34:54
I I didn't touch him. So I I felt that I I had I had some sort of um case but my heart was telling me I
00:35:04
didn't want to put the family through anymore. >> I didn't want them to go through
00:35:08
anymore. I didn't need to go through a trial um because then that family has to
00:35:13
deal with more you know. So on the day I was just like, "Nah, I I'll take the
00:35:20
deal. Get this over and done with." And yeah, >> where did that come from?
00:35:28
That's a That's a good heart >> or a good um like a glimpse of a good
00:35:32
moral compass. >> You know, there's there's a there's a good guy in there
00:35:38
>> in that kid. >> Oh, I definitely think that that did come from my mom. M she did install some
00:35:44
some good qualities in us and and the loving part was Yeah. And yeah, I think that did come from my mom.
00:35:55
>> Yeah. How how was this whole period for for her for your mom? >> You know what? I don't actually know. Um
00:36:01
to be honest, I could only imagine that it was it was hell. I could only imagine myself with my own
00:36:10
kids. Imagine if one of my daughters was going out with this, >> how would I feel, you know,
00:36:16
>> um in that whole process as a parent? >> So, yeah, I sort of I regret going out that night with with
00:36:28
those guys. Um >> Oh, mate, I've got no doubt that you've replayed it in your mind a million
00:36:34
times. >> Yeah, for sure. >> A million times about what you what you
00:36:36
could have done, what you should have done. >> Yeah. Um, >> you can't though. You can't change the
00:36:41
past. >> No, I can't. And as much times as I want to think, father, there was so much that
00:36:46
I could have done that night to stop this or that I could have helped or all those sort of things, but you know, this
00:36:54
this is the the cards that we dealt. Um, and yeah, this the consequences we had to deal with them
00:37:03
>> on our own. you know, I couldn't control what my co-offenders were doing.
00:37:09
Couldn't control any of that stuff. >> What they did was what they did and I
00:37:13
was there >> and I put myself in that situation. >> Yeah. >> I showed up that night.
00:37:19
>> So, you get sentenced to uh 5 and a half years for manslaughter and then um that
00:37:24
that's when you get moved from um the juvenile detention center to >> Widia prison.
00:37:29
>> Wa prison. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And adults jail. So, you're how old? Uh, I was 15,
00:37:35
16. >> Right. How old do you have to be to go to an adult jail? >> Oh, once you got those charges, you can
00:37:41
go straight in there. As soon as you get sentenced, >> but you I mean, you're still essentially
00:37:46
a kid. Are you in like segregation or >> um population or >> they had a youth wing at at Wia at that
00:37:53
at that time? Um, they don't anymore. Um, but once you're sort of sentenced,
00:38:02
you can go straight into mainstream prison or segregation. Uh, it's it's
00:38:08
your choice. Um, but I went to youth prison in Wedia until I turned 18. The day I turned 18, I went um I went up to
00:38:19
main prison and spent a bit of time there before I went down to the camp. So, >> yeah.
00:38:27
What's that like going um Yeah. Is it terrifying going? >> Oh, for sure. Just going to jail is
00:38:33
quite terrifying. You know, uh you're away from your family. You're away from
00:38:37
the norm of what you know. And yeah, you're pretty much stuck in this >> in this concrete jungle with all these
00:38:47
I don't know other inmates that have done bad things, you know. M um and yeah, it was quite
00:38:56
how how can I put it? Um not intimidated cuz I I seen a lot myself. So >> So you weren't scared or anything?
00:39:03
>> No, I wasn't scared. Um I think I just felt lonely, eh? Um yeah. >> Yeah, I was going to ask about that. Um
00:39:14
must just feel like a huge sense of homesickness. Yeah, homesickness. This is something you associate with kids.
00:39:19
But >> I don't know like Yeah. You just can't have any access to your family or
00:39:24
>> No, like you can't just walk down the road anymore. >> Can't go to the park.
00:39:29
>> You can't go see your mates. Can't just go to the shop and go grab your ice
00:39:32
cream or whatever. Um yeah, you're stuck in this routine now for however long
00:39:37
that you're in there. And yeah, so when I when I when I turned 18, I was given an option.
00:39:47
You go to segregation or SEGS or you go to mainstream. And it was there was no other option. It was just mainstream.
00:39:56
>> And um >> how's that? Is it a brutal place? All me and probably most people listening to
00:40:03
this or watching this think about jail is what you see on TV or movies. Um, oh, I think if you want to, you can just
00:40:12
have a cruisy cruisy lag, but there's trouble everywhere, eh? Uh, everywhere
00:40:16
in in jail, people are hustling, people are up to whatever that they're doing.
00:40:23
>> Um, so yeah, you're sort of exposed to that and at the age of 15, 16, you're
00:40:30
soaking it all in, >> you know, you're like a little sponge. >> It's like a university for band.
00:40:36
just soaking all that information in, >> taking it all on board. >> And you know what's crazy is like you
00:40:44
think you go to jail to be rehabilitated. So when you get out of jail, you become a better person, but in
00:40:52
fact it's not the case at all. >> You come out in a way worse uh condition
00:40:58
than what you went in, you know. So you've say you've only gone in for steal
00:41:03
and the lollipop. You're soon going to learn how to cook meth and everything
00:41:06
else >> while you're in there >> and you're going to make so much
00:41:10
networks and connections um you know with the people that you want to >> how was your mental health during um
00:41:21
your incarceration? Did you did you ever consider taking your own life? Like I'm
00:41:24
I'm thinking 15 years old, you know, you get sentenced to, you know, a stint of 5
00:41:30
years. >> It's so that seems like such a long period of time. >> Yeah. My mental health was gone and oh,
00:41:40
I was pretty I was in a pretty bad space. Um I tried committing suicide maybe a handful of times, sorry, while I was
00:41:51
in inside. Um, and one of them was the night that I got sentenced. >> M, the night I got sentenced to 5 and
00:41:59
1/2 years, >> I went back to myself and I was going to top myself that night.
00:42:05
>> And yeah, I just thought the world was going to be a better place without me,
00:42:11
you know. >> Um, yeah. >> Well, thanks for sharing that. M and on a few other other occasions um yeah I
00:42:22
really considered it and tried to do it on a few other occasions and never succeeded
00:42:35
you. What's prison life like? Like did you see some things that you just never unsee
00:42:43
violence and stuff? Yep. There is a few situations that I've seen I pro probably won't share them.
00:42:51
>> Okay. >> They're pretty brutal. Um and yeah, but the routine of jail life
00:42:59
every day is the same. >> What is it? What's a day? >> So, you'll get up in the morning. Um
00:43:05
>> what time? >> Depends what unit you're in. Some units uh get to get up and say 7 8:00 in the
00:43:12
morning. they'll get unlocked and then know some of them be unlocked until well
00:43:17
now nowadays some of them are out until 7 8:00 at night, you know. >> Um but back then it was 8:00 unlock and
00:43:27
you're locked up from 11:00 in the morning through to 1:00 in the afternoon and you're out for another
00:43:33
couple hours and doors were locked at 4:00. Um, and then in the time that you're out of of your cell, you have to
00:43:43
do courses and all that sort of stuff, uh, while you're in there. And then you're locked up for lunch. Um, and then
00:43:51
back in your back out for a couple hours, wreck time, gym, yeah, all that sort of stuff. And
00:43:58
then lock back up uh for the rest of the day until the next morning. >> And that was pretty much our routine for
00:44:06
>> Yeah. for a while uh until the prisons sort of opened up uh the doors and
00:44:12
pretty much done free range for for all of us >> from 8 to 8. >> Was was there anything about it that you
00:44:20
liked? I I had um you know the UFC fighter Mark Hunt. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I had um the super sam on on the
00:44:25
podcast and he um when he was younger he he did some time I think he was in Weta
00:44:31
as well for for violence >> and he actually he loved the structure and and the discipline aspect of it
00:44:37
>> he sort of thrived in there >> wouldn't want to go back he said
00:44:42
>> but um >> neither >> um I f what did I like about that I think
00:44:50
um what I did actually quite like about it was the the ingenuity and also the like far
00:45:03
like some of the people that are in there are so talented that's crazy. >> Like they could be multi-millionaires
00:45:09
had they put their skills in the right place. Like some of the um some of the guys in there with their like just for
00:45:18
example selling drugs, it's it's a big deal. like it's not just like anything
00:45:24
like you've got a whole business sort of to uphold, you know, and you've got to
00:45:29
distribute all this product. Um, and if you think about it, the same skills that
00:45:35
are used for that, you know, is the same skills that we use for selling clothes and stuff like that. So,
00:45:41
>> you know, had they just transferred that skill to something positive, they they
00:45:47
would probably be walking millionaires, you know. >> Yeah. And the funny thing is as a legit
00:45:51
entrepreneur, you can make way more money than what you can make illegally. >> Yeah, for sure.
00:45:55
>> Oh yeah. And you can go buy a car without um without any sort of question.
00:46:00
So >> yeah. Yeah. >> Um did were you did you have your own cell or were you like sharing with someone
00:46:07
else? >> Uh I was sharing for a bit there. And >> is it preferable? Is it is it is it like
00:46:13
I love my personal space. I couldn't imagine someone having a dump in front of me or vice versa. Um, is it is it do
00:46:21
people like being in a cellar with another person because it gets lonely on your own or what's that?
00:46:25
>> Oh, you some places you just got no choice? >> Yeah. >> You know, so um Yeah. Like Spring Hill
00:46:31
for example, which is which is where my last uh lag was was in Spring Hill and those were all double uh double cells,
00:46:40
you know, so you'll sell it up with somebody else. Um, but yeah, I prefer to
00:46:45
have my own cell, my own personal space, >> and but hey, sometimes it was actually
00:46:51
good having a salemate, someone who you could play cards with and sort of bounce, I don't know,
00:46:57
>> stories off and stuff like that. And yeah, >> it's very small space to have two grown
00:47:02
men though, isn't it? >> Yeah, it is. Um, actually Oakland wasn't too bad to be honest.
00:47:08
It was a lot bigger than than Witti. >> Yeah. But what's the um the biggest sort
00:47:12
of misconception about prison? Like you hear people talking on like talkback or whatever saying it's like a fivestar
00:47:17
hotel, you know, under floor heating and you know all that sort of rhetoric. >> Oh, it was nothing like that in Wii. I
00:47:26
could tell they had this heated bar and that was it. Uh that's all they heated
00:47:31
up your cell. >> Um and that did nothing during winter, >> right? And you don't get extra blankets
00:47:38
or anything like that because of the risk of uh suicide and and things like that, you know. So, you don't you didn't
00:47:45
get extra blankets or extra sheets or anything like that. You you just had to deal with the cold by putting on maybe
00:47:53
extra set of pants or something like that. So, >> yeah, Wedia sort of um in between
00:48:00
Hamilton and the central north island road sort of area. It's over by Telu. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:08
>> [ __ ] it be cold there in winter. >> It's freezing. >> Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:12
>> What What about um correction staff? Like um at the time we're recording this
00:48:15
there's a big ad campaign that's on TV and on YouTube all the time and um they
00:48:20
talk about they want to make a difference in your experience and most of the most the staff in the New Zealand
00:48:24
correction system good or there's some [ __ ] >> Oh, there's [ __ ] everywhere. It
00:48:29
doesn't matter whether you're in corrections or or not. There's there's
00:48:32
[ __ ] just walking on the street. >> Um but you know, most of the the screws
00:48:39
or the corrections officers that I dealt with, they were they were pretty good. >> They had um they had good hearts. Hey,
00:48:45
they want >> they want the best for for the guys. Hey, that they want to see them get out
00:48:51
>> and they don't want to see them come back is is a lot of their their their
00:48:57
mahi, you know, >> and um yeah, I think they get a lot of slack for for the work that they do,
00:49:06
>> but hey, they're just trying to put Kai on the table for their for their faro
00:49:10
just like everyone else. >> But, you know, I've dealt with a with a few corrections officers since I've been
00:49:17
out. Um, and my wife and I, we were going in to Wikidia prison, uh, where I started my farming journey and
00:49:27
we were sort of just sharing our journey of where we are sort of now, you know, with some of the guys that are on the
00:49:33
farming um, program in there >> and yeah, those corrections officers really want the best.
00:49:41
>> Um, yeah. >> Yeah. So, this is where the farming journey started. Um,
00:49:48
Yeah. How explain that? Like a lot of people be listening to this going, "What
00:49:52
do you mean farming journey in jail?" >> Yeah. So um in Weria there is there was three dairy
00:50:02
farms operating operating at that time and I was in a unit that um ran the the fencing of the of the dairy platform. Uh
00:50:15
so I got an opportunity to go out on the on the farms and uh fix some of the fences for for the cows and stuff like
00:50:22
that. And >> so it's a farm in inside the the prison perimeter fence or we are we used to low
00:50:29
security at this point? >> Yeah. So you've got to be low security uh in order to get out. Um so it it took
00:50:37
a it took a very long time. Maybe >> no [ __ ] after you cut off the detention
00:50:41
anklet. >> Yeah. So, my rock royal was pretty high and in order to get it down, I needed to
00:50:47
do courses and and sort of keep my my nose clean. Um, >> what sort of courses were they any good?
00:50:55
>> You know what? Um, I think they would be good if you want that help, you know, if
00:51:02
you actually want it. Um, there are some good resources in some of those courses,
00:51:07
but hey, I was just doing it so I could tick some boxes to get my ass out. That's all I wanted to do those courses
00:51:15
for. >> Um, so I done I done heaps of courses while I was in there and when I got out.
00:51:21
>> What like like anti violence and >> um drug and alcohol uh yeah violence
00:51:28
>> um multi multif focus uh program. Uh there was the mers disturbs and all that
00:51:34
sort of stuff. Um, yeah. So, those are all sort of optional some of them. Some of them you have to do.
00:51:43
>> So, you start farming because you think, "Oh, this will be a good way to pass the
00:51:47
time, get some fresh air." >> Yeah. So, I I took the opportunity cuz I
00:51:52
I was sick of staying myself. >> So, yeah. Went out on the farm and I started to learn a few skills and I
00:52:00
actually fell in love with the freedom. M just the freedom of being out on the land. Like I remember this one moment
00:52:09
like it got so a guy would come and he wasn't an officer. He was just like a
00:52:15
manager um sort of like a contractor into corrections who would take us out and show us fencing. Anyway, he come and
00:52:23
picked us up in the morning and we'll get ready and shoot out, go pick up our
00:52:28
gear and and go do some fencing. And I remember this one day I just took off my took off my gum boots and and that and I
00:52:37
just stood on the grass e and just that that feeling of just freedom. >> It just felt so good.
00:52:47
>> And yeah, I fell in love with with the fennel that in that moment. >> So when you're when you're farming
00:52:55
during your sentence, what what does the day look like? you get up early for milking or anything like you out there
00:52:59
before sunrise or no? >> Um, so there is actually a milking crew that that that'll do that. Yeah, they'll
00:53:06
be up there say 4:00 in the morning, go milk the cows, >> but with our crew, we would sort of just
00:53:13
pop into the dairy shed every now and again and go milk a cow if we wanted to and stuff like that. So that was the
00:53:20
first place I I actually put a set of cups on on a cow was was at weria. >> And
00:53:28
even though I was in the fencing crew, we we always went to the dairy platforms just to see um if there was sort of any
00:53:37
priority jobs that they needed done for where their cows were going and stuff like that. So we were really exposed to
00:53:44
to quite a few opportunities in there. Tractor driving and you know we we had free range once we were out on those
00:53:51
farms like you'll get given a quad you have to go right to the other side of
00:53:56
the prison to do some stuff over there and you know so it it wasn't like we had
00:54:01
an officer with us 24/7 >> uh while we were there. Um >> it's a massive amount of trust e but as
00:54:07
you said before it's like earned trust. Yeah, that's right. And and like it
00:54:11
takes a lot of work to get out on those programs. >> Some people just think that you just you
00:54:16
just get given them, but no, it took me three three years in order to actually get
00:54:22
>> out. >> And and was it somewhere during this um this farm stunt while you're
00:54:28
incarcerated that you think um this is going to be the future for me? like um did did like did you do some serious
00:54:34
like inner work? >> Um >> and so you were determined to change or not at this point?
00:54:40
>> No. >> No, I didn't know what change was really. I was Yeah. I I
00:54:49
just wanted to get out of jail >> and just make the time go faster. >> Yeah.
00:54:52
>> Yeah. >> Um you know, I didn't see farming as anything then. Um, but I knew I was
00:54:59
learning some really good skills and yeah, learned how to operate tractors and and whatnot while I was in there.
00:55:06
Um, again, we we had courses in there and I struggled. >> It was >> cuz you still couldn't read or
00:55:15
>> Yeah. So, all the practical stuff I aced but all the theory stuff was just like
00:55:21
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, why could you have got an education in there?
00:55:26
>> For sure. Yeah. Why Why didn't you use that time to read and write? You had
00:55:29
nothing else to do. >> Um I don't know. I just to be honest, I think I was
00:55:36
maybe too cool for it, you know? >> I thought I was >> just embarrassing.
00:55:40
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um yeah, I didn't want to tell anyone
00:55:44
that I couldn't read or write. >> And yeah, I just didn't want to bear
00:55:49
that shame, I guess. >> Yeah, it's understandable. So then um 2014 uh you get released after 4 years.
00:55:57
So you're how old at the time? >> I was 20. >> 20. [ __ ] You're still really young, eh,
00:56:02
man. >> And um what do you get? You get $300 the $300 when you leave? >> Yeah.
00:56:09
>> 350 bucks. >> Really? What do they base that on? >> I don't know.
00:56:13
>> Is that money that you earned on the farm or >> I don't know. But
00:56:16
>> does everyone get it when they leave jail? >> Um it's it's definitely not from the
00:56:21
work that you do in there. Okay. >> It's just the steps to freedom that you
00:56:24
that you receive once you get released from jail. >> And if you're a prisoner, if you're
00:56:33
if you smoke drugs, drink alcohol, all that sort of stuff, you already know where that $350 is going. It's
00:56:38
definitely not going on food. And yeah, it's not going on a ride either. It's
00:56:43
probably going on either an ounce or a bag or alcohol. It's going on a good time.
00:56:52
Um, so yeah, it's just a a $350 ticket back to jail >> is how I see it.
00:56:59
>> So, what what's that day like when you when you get released after being
00:57:02
incarcerated for 4 years? Who who's there to pick you up? >> Um, the day I got out and released, my
00:57:09
wife picked me up >> and >> Nikki, who's in the control room now.
00:57:13
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, when did you start seeing her? Um, long story short, uh, so I knew
00:57:21
Nikki for for a few years before we started, um, actually seeing each other and just become good, really good
00:57:28
friends. >> Um, she was really supportive and yeah, sort of developed from the from that.
00:57:35
Um, and so when when I did get up, yeah, the the feelings just become even more,
00:57:42
>> you know. So, >> have you had this discussion with it? Like, what did she see in you
00:57:48
>> or if she's picking you up from jail? Like, she know, you know, she knows she
00:57:52
knows everything about you. >> Um, >> was she just going through her bad boy
00:57:56
phase? >> I don't know. What did you see of me? >> Um, she did she see
00:58:06
>> I don't know. Did she see potential? Like, did did she like the Ben that's
00:58:10
sitting in front of me now? Did she >> I believe so. I believe so, Dom. >> She believed in you even before you
00:58:16
believed in yourself. >> That's right. Um she seen something that I did not.
00:58:21
>> And um it's I've got Iowa to her. She she deserves all the praise and all the credit of
00:58:30
where we are today. So a lot of the the mahi and and behind the scenes is my wife. M she's really
00:58:40
done a lot to get us or get me in the space that I am now, you know. So >> yeah,
00:58:47
>> that's awesome. >> So she picks you up. What what do you do? You go to McDonald's, KFC, like what
00:58:52
what's the like like what do you what do you in that four years like what do you what do
00:58:57
you fantasize about what you're going to do when you get out? >> Fantasize
00:59:02
no. Um, we >> I I love Coke Zero, so I'd be just craving that. >> Um,
00:59:10
Shak, she picked me up and I had a time limit to be at the address that I needed
00:59:17
to be at, which was pretty much the time from the prison to the address. So, we we couldn't we couldn't stop at all.
00:59:26
>> Okay. >> Um, and funny story, funny story. Um, so we left Waia, drove home, and we were
00:59:36
turning into our driveway and what was sitting in my driver was a police officer, a police car, and I was like,
00:59:44
"Oh, we were like 2 minutes late, bro. 2 minutes late on this on arriving." So we
00:59:51
we got caught up in a bit of traffic. So 2 minutes late and the cop was here. I was like, "Oh, [ __ ] I'm going back to
01:00:00
jail. Oh no, I'm going back to jail already. I just got out like 1 hour ago. Um anyway,
01:00:09
the cop wasn't even there for me. He just pulled over. >> Oh, so so yeah, there's an address that
01:00:15
you get bailed to. It has to be an approved address and then strict bail conditions like no drugs, no alcohol.
01:00:21
Yeah, no drugs, no alcohol, curfew, um no association with uh co-offenders, and you know, couldn't see the the
01:00:32
victim's family, all that sort of stuff. >> Um which is pretty it's the basics, you
01:00:38
know, sort of when you get released on on parole. >> And yeah, so I I got home in time. Didn't
01:00:47
get to stop for Mackers or anything like that. Um, but I think our first feed that night was was KFC,
01:00:55
which Yeah, I loved it cuz if you if you've been locked up for for so many years over that time, chicken is the
01:01:04
best feed when you're in jail. So, every Friday night, chicken. So, >> in jail?
01:01:11
>> Yeah. >> Really? >> So, chicken, some roast veggies, um, some peas, and some gravy. M there
01:01:19
was every Oh, no. Every Thursday night, sorry. Friday night was a jandle. >> A jandle?
01:01:25
>> Yeah. A fish jandle. >> What's that? >> So, it's one of those hokey fish.
01:01:33
>> Like a fish fillet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And it's just steamed and like you can
01:01:37
you can whack people with it, bro. Like those are just jandles, eh? So, >> and then um um you you slip up and you
01:01:47
get go back to jail and you get recalled. >> Yes, I did get record. Um so, yeah.
01:01:57
>> What was that for? >> Um violent. >> Violent. Oh, as much as I wanted to
01:02:09
as much as I wanted to change when I got out like Yeah. It just wasn't wasn't it
01:02:15
got out and probably become worse. >> And >> who who who are you violent against?
01:02:22
>> Um against my wife. >> Yeah. So you know seeing domestic violence growing up like
01:02:33
not saying that it was normal but yeah that's sort of what I was exposed to. And
01:02:40
um I remember telling myself I never ever want to be like that and I become that and probably even worse to be
01:02:48
honest. Uh so yeah, everyone that was sort of close to me I was I hurt. >> Yeah.
01:02:58
>> Why is she still here? >> That's a good question. But yeah, like like before, I think she just
01:03:07
sees the potential um and sees the greater >> in me that >> yeah, that no one else can see.
01:03:15
>> And you know, I didn't even with the awards and stuff like that. >> Um I didn't see myself there.
01:03:23
>> I didn't even see myself uh in that atmosphere, >> let alone winning it.
01:03:28
>> Yeah. And yeah, she she really drove me to, you know, step out and give it a
01:03:34
crack. >> So, you you go back to jail. >> Um, >> you must be feeling like [ __ ] at this
01:03:42
point, eh? Like, oh, like like you've let yourself down, you've let Nikki
01:03:45
down, you've [ __ ] up. >> That was probably rock bottom was their last stint.
01:03:51
>> Yeah. Um, so I went back to jail and I finally got a hold of of my wife and
01:03:59
the phone call went like this. Me and the kids are going to Australia. Um, so before you get out, we'll be gone.
01:04:09
You know, that was the conversation, >> right? Cuz you would be unable to travel. No.
01:04:13
>> So you couldn't >> I couldn't go to Australia >> and I've applied just recently and I'm
01:04:19
still getting denied. M >> you know because of my charges. But yeah, her and the kids were going to go
01:04:25
to Aussie and that was probably where I hit rock bottom. Not even being in jail was rock bottom for me.
01:04:32
>> Uh was hearing that from from my wife was she was taking my kids away and
01:04:39
>> and there's nothing you can do about it. >> And there's nothing I could do about it.
01:04:42
But thank thankfully to well my wife was staying and to my two older girls who um
01:04:51
cried, you know, they they really wanted us to work things out >> and wanted to,
01:05:01
you know, sort of um wanted mom to stay with me. So >> yeah. >> So is is that sort of how she
01:05:10
>> Yeah. Was it the kids that sort of convinced you to stay? >> And did you did you make a like a big
01:05:14
growling promise that you're going to change this time? And >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:19
>> Um, >> and did you did you mean it? Did you think you were able to?
01:05:23
>> I did mean it. Um, I didn't know how I was going to do it and I didn't know
01:05:30
where I was going to get the support to to it >> cuz I I don't know if it's pride or or
01:05:36
what, but I didn't know how to ask for help. Yeah. I couldn't ask anybody for
01:05:42
help. Yeah. >> So, yeah. And I remember saying to to my wife like this time for real like I want
01:05:52
to marry you. Long story. Like the day we actually got the day I got out of jail, we went
01:05:58
straight to the courthouse and got married. >> Pretty romantic. Um >> a nice visit to court.
01:06:05
>> Yeah. So went to the courthouse and yeah, we went through that process. Um,
01:06:12
and you know, I I would have loved to have believed that that would have been the end of all the [ __ ]
01:06:19
>> But it's not true. E >> like the drugs, >> the alcohol,
01:06:26
>> the all of that sort of stuff was still easily accessible. Especially out here,
01:06:33
you just walk down the road and you can find somebody with drugs and there's a
01:06:37
liquor store on every single corner. >> Um, and >> I suppose it's hard when that's your
01:06:42
when that's your ecosystem, like that's that's all your friends and your faro
01:06:45
and everything you know. What? So, how do you escape it? >> F. Do you just have to cut tie with all
01:06:52
your >> Yeah. As hard as as hard as it is, you have to separate yourself >> until you're I guess strong enough um to
01:07:02
say no. >> Hey, like especially with meth and stuff like that. >> And all my bros I could get it
01:07:11
anytime, you know, and >> so I had to cut those ties in order to get off the ship.
01:07:16
>> Um and yeah. So, so, so for you, for your story, we're at the point now where your
01:07:26
sentence is done, you've done the crime. Uh, you've done the you've done the
01:07:30
crime, you did the time. Yeah. >> And then now you're allowed to get on
01:07:32
with your life. Um, but I suppose for um for for the victim's family, Donald
01:07:37
Stewart, like it's a it's a life sentence in a way. They have to live with it forever. Like Yeah. Like Yeah.
01:07:44
Yeah. How do you reflect on that? >> You know, I I think about their family
01:07:48
all the time. Yeah, >> you know, prior to even getting getting into the exposure side of things, um
01:07:56
like entering the awards and before I even done all that stuff, um I really wanted to I guess
01:08:07
seek forgiveness. Um, and you know, just some sort of it's okay, you know, for for you to move
01:08:18
on with your life, so to speak. >> Um, so yeah, we I think it was 2020, I had the opportunity of of actually
01:08:27
meeting um, Don's brother and and his his wife and and his family. And you know the the
01:08:38
three words that really um I guess set me free was we forgive you know and even though I heard that at sentencing as
01:08:50
well. Um yeah that really just I guess gave me a sense of freedom again. It >> did they say that in the sentencing?
01:09:02
>> Yeah. Wow. >> In in the sentencing. Um cuz like my um my mom's the same age now as what uh
01:09:10
Donald was and dad's a little bit older. So I'm just I'm projecting here. I'm
01:09:14
putting myself in in their position. >> If it was me, I think I'd be able to I'd
01:09:20
be able to forgive you now seeing seeing the man you've become and that you've
01:09:24
done the work and you've changed. Um, but if I was in court facing like a shitty little 15year-old that had had
01:09:30
done it and wasn't actually sorry or hadn't done any change at that point,
01:09:34
I'd find it very difficult to forgive you at that point. >> Yeah. You know, I I actually did not
01:09:39
understand forgiveness then. I did I didn't understand it. M >> um so when when I think it was the
01:09:47
daughter um had read that you know I I didn't quite get it until till later on
01:09:54
in my journey >> uh where I sort of started to learn about forgiveness and stuff like that
01:09:59
>> and you know that was the first encounter of of forgiveness that I that
01:10:03
I ever had >> was that day in sentencing >> and yeah and then again when I met the
01:10:12
brother um you know that if they do forgive me and and stuff like that for for the part that I played and you know
01:10:20
what um that really gave me the wings to to fly I guess >> um and sort of take off and and start my
01:10:29
life >> with my family um because yeah my my faro are my why of why I do everything
01:10:39
>> and yeah and and it wasn't plain sailing after that like you and you nick you
01:10:45
were living in a car for a while. You were homeless. >> Yeah. So I put my family in a situation.
01:10:51
Hey um I was I was working then but I was still hooked on drugs. >> Mhm. >> Uh at this at this point and
01:11:02
meth was was that drug. Um and I sold everything for it. I sort of went down this path of just I wanted it
01:11:12
and I was going to do anything to get it. Um so I just started selling everything, got rid of everything and
01:11:19
just to fulfill my my habit. Um, but I think also to numb some of that that pain,
01:11:29
>> hey, >> the childhood trauma that stuff that happened with the uh with the situation
01:11:35
with uh Dawn and that and yeah um put my faro in a situation where they become homeless. Yeah. And
01:11:47
um we're sort of couch surfing from Faro and friends and stuff like that. And you
01:11:54
know Nikki and the kids sort of camped up in in the car while I was still out the gate. Um you know chasing
01:12:05
meth. >> Nikki must have been been under so much pressure from her family. E like like
01:12:12
what are you doing with this guy? >> For sure. Like >> I can't imagine like the I don't know
01:12:18
the what the word is if it's determination or whatever to stay with you. Like
01:12:24
>> there must have been so much fun I pulled to get her away from you. >> Oh for sure. Like yeah I don't even know
01:12:31
why or how she even stayed with me. Um yeah. So and her faro like they're are
01:12:38
loving. They're real loving family. M >> um my mom and dad. Yeah, they're so
01:12:45
awesome. You know, they they probably didn't like me then at all. >> Well, it sounds that you didn't like
01:12:51
yourself then. >> No, I didn't. >> Um I was a pretty ugly person then. Um yeah,
01:12:59
>> to to everyone, >> not just to >> Nikki and I was just ugly to everybody.
01:13:05
>> Yeah. There's a saying I really like um hurt people hurt people. >> That's right.
01:13:10
>> Yeah. Yeah, >> you were you were hurt. >> Yeah. And you know what? There's there's
01:13:15
a flip side to that. E um when you find healing and heal people, heal people. >> Yeah. And I guess that's sort of the
01:13:23
journey that I'm on at the moment is >> is using my experience and my journey
01:13:29
that I've been through to sort of um help others that are going through it >> and also to hopefully be some sort of
01:13:39
intervention for some of our young ones. >> Yeah. >> So that they don't have to walk down the
01:13:44
same path. They don't need to experience jail. That's ugly place. You don't need
01:13:50
to go down there. Go get an education. >> Go learn how to read or write. Um, you
01:13:55
know, >> go put your head in some books so you could become something. >> Thankfully, we're through the the ugly
01:14:05
part of the story. Yeah. Is it is it hard to talk about? >> Um, >> it's it's part of it's part of your
01:14:13
story, eh, but it's still not a nice part of the story. >> No. And I guess like when you're sharing
01:14:18
your shame, it is quite quite hard. E um but I also see the power in it. Um like I was just
01:14:28
sharing then like for others to be able to take it up and and maybe get something from it.
01:14:35
>> Um is is sort of where I see the power in in sharing. >> Yeah. Yeah, because if if I could help
01:14:41
somebody and change the course of what whatever path that they're on, >> I feel like I'm I'm doing something not
01:14:51
just for me and myself, but also for Don and his family, >> you know, like Yeah.
01:14:57
[Music] >> So, so how do you go from um living in the car to getting getting that first
01:15:05
job on a farm? Who who was it that gave you gave you the opportunity? >> Um, so
01:15:14
shucks from there I had a few jobs uh leading up to that situation, but my first job when I first
01:15:21
got out of jail was actually on a bull farm in Mensville doing three and a half thousand bulls. Um, which was hard work,
01:15:30
>> but I I lived off that adrenaline. So working with bulls was bloody cool.
01:15:39
Um and yeah, so that was the first opportunity that I got when I first got out of jail. It was the week of getting
01:15:46
out of jail >> that I got that one. >> Um and then from there I moved over to the
01:15:53
dairy industry and I had a a heap of [ __ ] jobs. E like with a criminal record you have to take whatever. You don't
01:16:03
have an option. >> Yeah. The opportunities are extremely limited, aren't they?
01:16:07
>> That's right. Hey, so um in every single interview that you'll walk into, first
01:16:13
question is, "Have you got a criminal record?" Straight off the bat. Okay. So,
01:16:18
yes, I do. Oh, cool. Is it just stealing? No, it's manslaughter. Oh, that's pretty much the interview over,
01:16:26
you know. So, that was probably 99% of the time. >> Yeah. So, and then yeah, finally got a
01:16:33
got a break um from a really awesome farmer uh in in the Mville Minesville area. Uh Graeme Graeme and Julie Lucas,
01:16:46
amazing couple. And you know what? They actually gave me the opportunity to to operate their farm. But also during that
01:16:55
time was when I went back in on my recall >> was was on their farm. And you know any
01:17:04
other a farmer or an employer that'll be it. Your job's gone. You know you're not
01:17:10
here to fulfill it. So they'll need to fill that spot. Well they didn't. They
01:17:16
kept my job open. They allowed Nikki to operate the farm while I was absent or in jail and they helped her out and they
01:17:27
came along to my parole hearing. Um yeah, so that was a really powerful I guess moment also in my journey was was them
01:17:39
and you know they are really awesome today. They still flick me a message every now and again, stay in contact,
01:17:46
seen them last year, field days and stuff like that. And and oh, I'm so grateful to have people like them.
01:17:53
There's another couple as well, uh, Shane and Cheryl. Um, another beautiful couple, who gave
01:18:02
me an opportunity knowing my background. Um, they just didn't care. They were
01:18:06
like, "Cool, that doesn't really worry us." and he taught me a lot about
01:18:12
farming, about life. Um, yeah, sort of like a like a cur, a father figure, you know.
01:18:20
Um, one that yeah, sort of showed me a lot in the short amounts of time that I was with him.
01:18:27
>> He he taught me heaps. And the >> these two farm owner couples that you've
01:18:32
just mentioned, have you had a conversation with them? Like, why didn't they just wash their
01:18:37
hands with you? I haven't actually had that conversation with them. Um, but you know what, Shane,
01:18:43
he he's always like even just recently, he um he dropped off these homemade boats. So,
01:18:54
he made these little little yachts uh for my for my daughter. >> And, you know, we've just had this
01:19:02
relationship um since starting with him. And it's just been amazing, you know, uh like
01:19:11
>> I can call on them whenever or I feel like I can call on them for whatever,
01:19:16
you know. >> Um and when we move from um from his farm to another farm, like
01:19:24
he got all the support that we needed to move and and everything like that. So >> yeah, he's just I don't know. You find
01:19:31
those ones and but it's quite rare, you know. It's just like finding bloody
01:19:36
diamonds, you know. It is quite rare. And >> uh when when I did find them, they would
01:19:42
Yeah. They become family, you know. >> Yeah. There's some really good people
01:19:46
out there, right? But it's you can also understand not saying that people that
01:19:50
wouldn't give you a sec a second chance or a third chance are bad people. They
01:19:54
don't owe you anything. >> No, they don't. and they didn't need to
01:19:58
do what they did >> at all. You know, especially when I went to jail. Um I
01:20:05
I >> there would be an opportunity to say, "Okay, we we gave you a chance. Clearly,
01:20:08
you haven't changed. Um we don't want to know about yet." >> Yeah, for sure.
01:20:12
>> Yeah. >> And obviously they also seen potential in me that I didn't see,
01:20:18
>> you know. >> When did you start to see the potential in yourself?
01:20:21
>> Um maybe after 25 I don't maybe 7 years ago. Yeah, >> 7 years ago. Was there a moment or
01:20:39
anything or was it like a gradual thing? Um, so I was going through a whole lot of
01:20:47
rubbish and you know I was I was actually looking at going back to jail and um had this police officer. He
01:21:00
he was um he he was at home quite a lot, you know, um checking up on Nikki and whatnot. Um,
01:21:09
yeah, just to see if things were all going okay. But it wasn't. And you know,
01:21:14
he was like, "Bro, like if you carry this [ __ ] on, you're going to go to jail
01:21:19
and they're going to throw away the key and that's it." >> And you know, and that's coming from who
01:21:25
I thought was the enemy >> my whole life. Um, I seen police officers as enemy forever
01:21:34
>> because of what I seen in our own home, >> seen in our neighborhood and stuff like
01:21:38
that with Faro, you know. So, to actually hear that from from a police officer was like, wow.
01:21:46
>> Yeah. >> So, >> felt like he he was sort of on your side in a way.
01:21:51
>> It did. >> Yeah. >> And there was no strings attached to it,
01:21:55
>> you know. I sort of genuinely like Yeah. I felt something different from him.
01:22:05
>> Yeah. >> So, so you you made the change. >> Was it a good or was it a gradual thing
01:22:11
with a couple of um speed bumps along the way? >> Yeah. So, um I I did this program that
01:22:18
really gave me some real good resources and tools to be honest. um that helped me not just in my relationship but in my
01:22:27
own journey of I guess not just self-discovery but you know dealing with childhood traumas and and
01:22:38
stuff like that and you know just really getting to understand what was going on
01:22:44
um and why it was happening and stuff like that and you know that really helped me out and you know I was
01:22:52
able to apply I a lot of those tools in into my life and Yeah. >> How long have you been um Do you still
01:23:01
drink at all or No, >> no. Just doesn't agree with you. >> Yeah. What about
01:23:06
>> jail put me in there? Oh, drinky put me in in jail, you know. So, I don't really
01:23:11
I don't typically like alcohol. Um like I didn't I wasn't a heavy drinker
01:23:18
anyway. I was more of a drugs. Hey, drugs was my my thing. >> So, yeah, alcohol wasn't really a
01:23:26
>> So, when was the last time you drunk or smoked meth? >> Oh, last night. No,
01:23:34
>> on the weekend. >> Just for clarification. So, yesterday, we're recording this on a Saturday. On
01:23:39
the Friday, you had a day on the farm and then you were out diving for crayfish at like midnight.
01:23:44
>> Yeah. No, that that is my that's my drug now. E. >> Yeah. That's your outlet, your voice.
01:23:49
Yeah. Hey, that that's my the thing that fills my cup >> is is my family and also I love I love
01:23:57
diving but my passion is is in is in working the fenoa working with with animals
01:24:04
>> but also teaching um you know people about the agriculture sector. M I quite
01:24:12
enjoy that and showing the life of a New Zealand farmer >> and and somebody who has come out of
01:24:20
that I guess system or their lifestyle >> um and can make something of themselves,
01:24:27
you know, just I guess a a glimmer of hope for for >> those ones that are sitting in in in
01:24:34
jail, you know, that that it doesn't have to be it. >> Yeah. So, your life looks pretty good
01:24:41
now. >> It does. >> What about um um the domestic violence? When was the last time you you and Nikki
01:24:49
have your sweet now? >> Oh, it's more her now. I'm the one getting the hiding these
01:24:55
days, mate. Hey, no. Um yeah, just a air bash. No, but domestic violence, bro. None.
01:25:06
No, >> it's um it's cuz you You've got this like this piece this inner piece about
01:25:12
you now. >> Yeah. Uh I'm content with life now. E um I've got my three-year-old daughter
01:25:18
who's just watching every single step that >> that I'm taking. >> Uh she's looking at everything that we
01:25:25
do together and yeah, she's just soaking it in. And I don't want her to see that.
01:25:31
>> Um I don't want her to grow up >> with domestic violence and stuff like
01:25:36
that. >> Yeah. Cuz it's all for kids. It's all one and lost in the first thousand days.
01:25:40
Something like like 80% of the brain development, everything they know about like, you know, healthy relationships
01:25:45
and >> everything, it's all done in those first few years. >> I'm not saying that I'm I'm perfect or
01:25:51
I'm the best. But I I want to give my daughter everything that I didn't get
01:25:56
and more, >> you know. Um like yeah, I just want to show her a life that >> Yeah. It just gives her so much I guess
01:26:06
freedom and opportunity um where she can just I guess dream big. Yeah. I just Yeah. I want the best for
01:26:16
for my daughters. >> How would you feel if you heard that when she's seven an older cousin gives
01:26:21
her weed? >> Oh >> yeah. >> It's so young. E >> so young when you started, bro.
01:26:30
>> I know. >> It's crazy. Like even even when I think of my older daughters, I'll just put
01:26:35
this back up like you know and going to jail at 15 14 15 >> like when my girls were 14 and 15
01:26:46
>> like >> they were at school, you know, um really they do really awesome uh at
01:26:54
heights and stuff like that. But they're involved in so much sports so far out.
01:27:01
Like is this is this what 15y olds do? >> Yeah. Normal healthy 15y olds. Yeah.
01:27:07
Now, how does your your past um still impact your life today? Like in terms of I guess like like judgment and
01:27:15
>> Oh, people always going to judge. >> Yeah. >> You know, that's just the unfortunate
01:27:19
part of life. M um but you know it doesn't really impact me so much nowadays but you know I'll always have
01:27:31
in the back of my mind the family they'll always be there um yeah I've always
01:27:39
>> Don's family >> so in everything that I do I'm always quite cautious of
01:27:46
um how I yeah how I sort of portray things cuz I don't want to hurt their family anymore
01:27:55
than what they you know they're already doing a life sentence like you said >> and they don't need to
01:28:00
>> have anymore you know >> so I always try and um think about my actions and how that may affect them
01:28:09
>> and myself and my and my family say >> yeah so uh 2024 um you win the award young
01:28:16
moldy the farmer of the year. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Was Was everyone okay with that or
01:28:21
were there some people that were like, "Oh, this guy shouldn't win because of
01:28:25
his past or >> Definitely. There's so many people who don't think that I deserve to be where I
01:28:31
am today." >> You know, some people definitely think that I should be still in jail cell
01:28:36
rotting, >> you know, with the key thrown away, never to be found. Um, but
01:28:44
uh I want to change and I've got it. Um, I wanted to be better. Uh, I wanted to
01:28:50
change the cycle for for my family. >> Um, and you know, I yeah, the the judgment's always going to
01:29:00
be there. But I think for me, like, as long as I I believe in myself and I've got the right support around me,
01:29:10
like, yeah, I don't think that I could fall over. >> I've got my wife, I've got my kids, um,
01:29:16
who are 100% behind me, got my family, um, my friends, my my boys who I go diving with, and everyone's sort of
01:29:24
keeping me on track. M >> um and you know I've got to give it up to my team and you know my wife is
01:29:31
probably the leading part of of of all of it you know so >> is um is New Zealand a hard country to get
01:29:41
redemption in >> Yeah sure. >> Yeah. Like we've we've got so much
01:29:47
things that go on here in tall puppy syndrome here in Al is rubbish. >> It's probably the
01:29:53
>> Oh, it's just Yeah, it's disgusting. It's ugly. It is. It's real ugly.
01:29:57
>> Yeah. And you know, like >> a lot of it's centered around jealousy,
01:30:01
I think. >> Yeah, for sure. Exactly. It's a It's a strange phenomenon syndrome.
01:30:05
>> Yeah. Especially here in Oh, I don't know what it is, but you know, people
01:30:09
just don't want to see people succeeding. >> And you know, they don't want to see
01:30:13
people change. >> Yeah. >> So, and then when you do change, it's
01:30:17
like, no, we want you to go back to how you were because we were benefiting >> of that person. You know,
01:30:23
>> it's kind like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's like you you
01:30:26
you you're like a dream outcome. This is what you can't log people up forever.
01:30:30
>> No. >> Um so the the dream result is that someone goes through does the crime,
01:30:34
does the time >> and then um completely changes their life. Like I've had another guy on the
01:30:39
podcast, Dr. Paul Wood, >> who's um he he murdered his drug dealer when he was 18 and uh did 10 years um
01:30:46
>> got a couple of degrees when he was inside and he's changed his life around
01:30:49
and you know there's still Yeah. Yeah, >> it's a good lesson in a way, I guess, in
01:30:56
that, you know, you your past does stick with you. >> Yes. And you know, I'm not going to let
01:31:02
it define who I am, >> but it it is now a part of my my story. >> Um, and yeah, with that, I I want to
01:31:14
share it so >> yeah, I can help others. M >> um what other awards have you won? Yeah.
01:31:22
So I won Dahu Fininoa Young Moldi Farmer 2024 and then the following the following week
01:31:31
um oh no sorry before winning AU Finoa I won dairy manager of the year uh for the
01:31:38
central plateau and then uh went to nationals down in Queenstown where I won the people and leadership award at the
01:31:47
nationals and then the following week after nationals was uh won young multi farmer of the year. Uh which was it was
01:31:56
an epic night. Like that was amazing. Uh but the leadup to it like going back three years
01:32:06
I lost I actually I didn't win the Au Finoa and that had like a pretty big uh effect on me
01:32:16
>> um mentally and >> did it why? Um, I don't know. I think cuz I
01:32:24
I put so much money in like I didn't think that I won it, but yeah, I thought
01:32:31
that I had put in enough work um then, but obviously, hey, I needed I needed some more growing. I needed some more
01:32:40
developing. Um, so I went back to the drawing board >> and I showed up again. Um so for so it's
01:32:49
every 3 year rollover for AU Finoa. Um so I lost that year. So for the next 3 years I really wanted to do all that I
01:32:57
could to prepare >> um to come back again. And hey I was willing to turn up as many times as I
01:33:07
could um not just for myself but for my far >> and stuff like that. and just to show that hey you can fall
01:33:17
over but it's up to you what happens from there >> and it was the same with the industry
01:33:21
awards uh so I done it for four years in a row and for three of those years I I one year I didn't even place at all
01:33:32
>> I was I was always in the top five >> uh for each year that I did uh do the
01:33:37
awards and yeah it took four years before I actually took it out >> um so yeah
01:33:43
I'm pretty when I sort of fix myself on something, I I I want to go for it. >> Yeah. Like a dog with a b.
01:33:50
>> Yeah. Um and yeah, that was sort of tunnel vision for uh for last year for
01:33:56
the manager of the year. It's like, you know, I've put in all this mahi over the
01:34:00
last few years and this year I want to give it a bit more >> to see where I get.
01:34:06
>> Oh, good for you. And what about the social media stuff? Where did that
01:34:09
start? You've got um um I checked you out. farm RPZ. Um, your top Tik Tok's
01:34:15
got 22 million views. >> Is it >> 22 million views? Yeah. Which is massive. It's an Yeah. unfathom fathom
01:34:23
fathomable amount of people. >> Is that one where a cow's [ __ ] on you or
01:34:27
>> uh it might be. Yeah. It might be the one where the cow's [ __ ] on me or it
01:34:32
could be the one where I'm eating crayfish and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, again, it's just sharing the life
01:34:40
of a New Zealand farmer, a New Zealander. Hey, living the life. And yeah, I see a rural as as a really
01:34:49
awesome lifestyle >> to bring your kids up. And yeah, I really want to sort of
01:34:55
>> um I guess show it a bit more to attract a lot more people into it cuz >> Yeah.
01:35:02
um with social media and you know yeah there's an upside but there's also a
01:35:06
downside as well like do you do you have to block a lot of people? >> Um people come at you in the comments.
01:35:12
>> Yeah heaps really saying what oh just bringing up the past and >> Oh not so much that like more
01:35:20
um people just trying to drag you down you know like I was saying that tall poppy syndrome.
01:35:24
>> Yeah. Hey, like a lot of people here at Ulti at all just I don't know they don't
01:35:28
want to see people succeed >> and they just want to pull you down. So, um some of that we block and some people
01:35:36
do try to bring up the past but >> I guess it doesn't affect you that much.
01:35:42
um you know I see more of the positive stuff that's coming up like there's
01:35:48
thousands more positive things than negatives uh that are coming through on social media
01:35:53
>> and you know it's more around I guess memories you know like we've got an
01:35:58
older generation that are sort of coming through on social media saying thank you
01:36:02
for sharing because it's just brought back memories of my childhood >> with my dad or my core on the farm you
01:36:10
know which which is quite Um, heartwarming I guess. >> No, it's lovely.
01:36:16
>> And what about the high fist clothing? You got a clothing label as well, eh?
01:36:20
>> Yes. So, we launched our clothing last year uh sort of off the back of uh all
01:36:26
the awards. Oh, might have been prior to the awards actually. Sorry. And yeah, so
01:36:32
we launched this this clothing. And we started it um to help uh people with Kai, you know.
01:36:44
So um my wife and I were sort of forking out um at that time out of our own pocket
01:36:52
>> uh to help some families that were in need in our community. So we're just
01:36:56
going down to the shopping, buying $100 worth of grocery and sort of giving it to a faro.
01:37:02
>> And you know, that was just getting too hard on us financially. um putting a lot of pressure on our
01:37:08
home. So yeah, we we started this clothing and I didn't like the clothing that's in farming at the moment too.
01:37:17
So that was another reason why I why I wanted to start my own clothing and have my own wardrobe. Um so
01:37:24
>> it's really really cool. What's the what's the name? What's
01:37:27
>> uh the name is Kamu to Pamu, which means calm your farm. Uh so >> and it's cool. It's like h with um moldy
01:37:34
designs. Yeah. So, we've got singlets. We've got our H highos range, which is
01:37:39
our working range uh which is uh highlighted pink, yellow, and orange uh in hoodies and shirts. And then, yeah,
01:37:50
we've got a whole other range of of kakahoo as well. And yeah, it sort of started taking off after winning the
01:37:57
awards. And then we just featured on Country Calendar uh just recently. And yeah, uh it just went crazy. Um so we
01:38:08
sold out two or three times and yeah, it was just hard to try to keep up with with the sales, the demand and yeah, we
01:38:17
finally just got on top of things. So it's at a manageable stage right now. >> Unreal. Unreal. So how can people access
01:38:24
it? What's the easiest way to find it? >> Uh so online kamu.co. Mhm. >> Otherwise, you can find us on social
01:38:31
media kamu or flick me a message on farm >> and I I'll send that to you.
01:38:38
>> Amazing. Um, what would your advice be for anyone listening to this who is at
01:38:42
their say own version of rock bottom right now? >> Yeah, maybe someone is listening to this
01:38:48
that's living in a car on me, incarcerated, whatever it happens to be. But don't give up. E,
01:39:00
>> don't give up. Hey, there there's another day. There'll be another sunrise tomorrow to
01:39:07
give give life another go. Um, yeah, just don't give up. Don't be afraid to
01:39:14
ask for help. I think that's where I let myself down a lot was not allowing myself to ask for
01:39:22
help. >> And so, don't be afraid to ask for help. There's always people out there that are
01:39:26
willing to help. M >> um more than what we think. >> Yeah. >> Hey, and yeah, if you if you need reach
01:39:37
out to someone, I'm always happy. Hey, people always reach out on on my social
01:39:41
media for help for whatever. And if we can point you in a in a direction that can get you that help, then I'll be more
01:39:51
than willing to do that. >> Do you do you do you consider yourself a role model? um
01:39:59
an example. Yeah. >> Uh especially for our our young ones that are coming up.
01:40:07
>> And yeah, I really have a heart for for our our youth, our young ones, cuz man,
01:40:14
like yeah, imagine just like you were saying earlier, um 7 years old. >> I can't imagine that anymore. M
01:40:26
>> so young painfully young >> and and it doesn't need to happen like
01:40:30
yeah so >> if you could go back and talk to like a young Ben 7y old Ben 5-year-old Ben
01:40:37
whatever it happens to be >> what would you tell him? Oh, I've said it before like sorry for for the way
01:40:44
that things was, but I think um if I could go back and and tell my younger self something
01:40:54
more like blurry buck your ideas up and use your ears e go to school learn something
01:41:01
um like yeah do something with yourself >> and yeah not saying Life is bad now. It's really good now.
01:41:13
But >> hey, had had I not had the support around me, I probably wouldn't be
01:41:18
sitting here with you talking about this stuff to be honest. >> And I I know for 100% if I didn't have
01:41:26
my wife >> and my family, I wouldn't be here. >> I would probably still be in jail.
01:41:32
>> Yeah. >> So Don's family have forgiven you. Do you forgive you?
01:41:38
>> I have. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Did it take a while? >> It did.
01:41:42
>> Even after that process, even long after that process, >> I sort of it sort of comes and goes. Um
01:41:51
so, you know, there'll be a long period of time where I sort of just coasting
01:41:55
through life and then it sort of just hits, you know. >> Um sort of comes around to that time of
01:42:00
the year and it's like it hits again. >> It's sort of a reminder. M
01:42:07
>> um and but it I I think it it's also a good reminder for for myself. It gives
01:42:14
me a bit of a checkup. >> Um yeah, where I can actually think about it and say, "Yep,
01:42:23
that situation happened. Here we are today. Let's go." >> Yeah. How often Yeah. How often do you
01:42:31
catch yourself um thinking about Dawn and his family now? So, is it is it like a like a weekly thing, a monthly thing,
01:42:37
a daily thing? Is it just always there or >> uh it's not always there? Um but
01:42:45
like like at least a few times a year, you know, >> I'm always thinking about their family.
01:42:51
>> Yeah. >> Um especially about uh and especially cuz we have a relationship with the
01:42:56
brother now. >> He's been over home, had a coffee and and stuff like that. We've had dinner
01:43:01
with him and and things like that. and he's met our daughter >> and whatnot and like yeah so and also on
01:43:10
social media like always see them pop up and yeah >> like they're big people.
01:43:19
>> Yeah. >> Amazing. Like to have a heart like that is is is nothing that you come across every day,
01:43:29
you know. Um because there's forgiveness um like on different levels like I suppose they could forgive you for
01:43:35
selfish reasons just because they don't want to be hanging on to that hurt >> but then to come and visit you and
01:43:41
engage with you on social media that's like um >> well that's sincere and genuine
01:43:46
forgiveness. >> That's right. And like for that example of coming over home, like he was going
01:43:53
through our our town heading to go see his family and he flick me a message to say
01:44:01
that he's passing through and that he wants to stop in, >> you know, like just to actually have
01:44:05
that go through that process of, you know, wanting to come and see me is huge. So yeah, there is forgiveness and
01:44:13
then there's this >> you know this is on another level and you know I'm grateful and honored
01:44:21
like to have that in my life cuz yeah again I probably wouldn't have forgiven
01:44:30
myself without that process taking place. >> What about your co-offenders?
01:44:37
Do you know what they're up to? No, >> no, >> no, not at all. >> Um, yeah, last I heard they were still
01:44:45
in jail >> and yeah, sort of, >> you know, >> like they must be so jealous of you, but
01:44:52
like it's none of this has been easy and no one else can do the work. Nikki can't
01:44:56
do the work for you. >> No, >> no one else can do the work for you. You
01:44:59
have to do it yourself. But they must be so jealous cuz you've you've done it and
01:45:03
you found happiness on the on the other side of all that hard work. >> Um, yeah. Oh, I don't know if I'll call
01:45:09
it jealous. Um, I don't know how they would be feeling to be honest. But hey,
01:45:14
if if if the shoe was on the other foot and I seen one of my co-offenders doing really well, bro, I would be like, [ __ ]
01:45:23
it's possible. >> And if he can do it, why can't I? >> Um, if he's where he is, then how come I
01:45:32
can't get there? >> What's stopping me from getting there? And to be honest, I would probably take
01:45:37
it to another step like I was saying once I'm tunnel vision that that's it.
01:45:42
>> Um and ask them how did you do it? >> What is the >> Yeah, show me the steps. Show me the
01:45:51
path. >> What's the recipe? >> Yeah. >> To to this and my answer would be the
01:45:57
support around you. >> That is really important. Um and also selfbelief. believe it in yourself. Um that selft
01:46:08
talk um you know just I guess backing yourself >> you need a ya like if the why is strong
01:46:15
enough you'll figure out the how. >> Yeah. >> Where do you see yourself um in the
01:46:20
future? Like where do you see yourself at 40 50 >> traveling the world? Do you
01:46:25
>> I hope. >> Yeah. Where Yeah. What's the story with that? Do travel restrictions get lifted
01:46:30
after a >> N not with three charges e manslaughter, murder and and rape. I think they stay
01:46:36
with you forever. Don't quote me on that, but yeah, I'm pretty sure it's
01:46:40
those three. And we've been to Thailand. We just recently went to Thailand. Uh
01:46:47
been there twice and then we went to Raaro with my whole family. But you know, even going to Raaro was was wasn't
01:46:55
easy. still have to apply and and stuff like that. Um and yeah, and definitely can't get into Aussie. So
01:47:04
>> really >> can can scratch that one. Um yeah, applied four times and been denied four
01:47:09
times. So yeah, >> I want to know where the antic spirits at. >> And I want given that that was uh that
01:47:16
was originally a a colony where my convicts from the UK were sent. >> That's where they were all sent was
01:47:23
there. They stop letting criminals in. >> Yeah. >> But yeah, it's um Hey, I got a lot of
01:47:31
fun in Aussie and I would love to go to Australia. >> Um and like yeah, I got my my my little
01:47:38
sister over there as well who's just had her had her baby and I would love to go
01:47:42
visit them. >> Um but unfortunately these are the consequences of my actions.
01:47:48
>> And hey, I've got to I've got to wear that. Mhm. >> Um, and yeah, that's just that's life.
01:47:54
E. >> Yeah. >> But I think where do I see myself in the future is I think like with our clothing and that
01:48:05
we want to take that to another level. Um, and also with farming with with the farming industry. Um, you know, we we'll
01:48:17
eventually get to ownership uh for sure. And like we had this massive ass dream dom of setting up a farm for for guys
01:48:25
coming out of jail. >> Sort of like a a halfway uh before they go on to full-time employment. You know,
01:48:31
we had this massive dream of of getting that all going. And you know, there's so
01:48:35
many people that that are keen to jump on board. It's just, you know, we're
01:48:40
financially not able to do that >> yet >> and yet and, you know, it's quite a big
01:48:46
project to be honest, >> but I think it'll be really rewarding to get that up and going.
01:48:52
>> Um, and help people get to where I am and beyond. You know, just imagine that more people coming out
01:49:01
of jail and changing their lives and, you know, becoming, it's not even just
01:49:06
in the farming industry. It could be in any any industry to be honest. >> Um but there's just nothing at the
01:49:12
moment >> for people coming out of jail. >> You get out of jail with a criminal
01:49:17
record, there's no way that you're getting a job. >> Uh so how can we bridge that gap? And
01:49:23
yeah, I feel like a a transition farm or or something that's going to help support them with whatever issues that
01:49:30
they have will really help that situation. >> That's a good goal. Yeah,
01:49:36
>> it's a good goal. Are you proud of yourself? >> Definitely definitely proud of myself.
01:49:41
I'm probably more um proud of my wife for stay with me to be honest. Like I don't know why or how you know
01:49:52
like but I'm so >> I have to get her on a podcast to unpack all that. >> Oh no, thank you.
01:50:00
>> Uh but no, she's she's got an amazing story too, you know. Um, yeah, she's
01:50:07
Yeah, I've got to give it up to her like not just for sticking with me, but for getting us here
01:50:15
as much as people say, "Well, you done the mahi. You you showed up to the awards and all that sort of stuff." But
01:50:22
without having her beside me, bro, this I wouldn't have been able to do it. like, yeah, I needed her um every
01:50:33
step of this way because she she knows me. She knows my I guess my um my struggles and all that sort of stuff.
01:50:44
And you know, she sort of knows where to fill in >> and and show up so and encourage
01:50:51
um and yeah, she's she's amazing. >> I reckon that's a good place to end it.
01:50:59
Yeah. >> Yeah. Nice bow on the chat. How's it been? You You've been anxious about this
01:51:05
for the last couple of days. >> I know. I feel I could carry on talking to you for the rest of the day, to be
01:51:10
honest. >> Has it been all right? >> It has. Um Yeah. Thank you for this
01:51:14
opportunity. Hey, um the nerves aren't there anymore, but hey, yeah, I'm very grateful to to have this
01:51:25
opportunity, Dom, to be honest. >> Yeah. Oh, thanks for being here today, Ben. And um thanks for sharing. I know
01:51:30
there there'll be a lot of people that get a lot out of this conversation. No,
01:51:32
>> thank you. >> That's cool. >> Nice work, brother. >> Cheers.