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[Music] Kiwis love it first. Like Finn, we're making [Music] [Applause] waves. Generate switch online today.
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David Less, welcome to my podcast. Oh, thank you. Yeah, you're my running companion. Oh, yeah. I I didn't realize
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listen to her research, but yeah, you you still run. Yeah, I run. Well, I try and run most days. Yeah. And uh when I
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run, I listen to you. Oh, actually. Yeah. Podcast. Well, I always listen to podcasts or or things like that. And
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I've listened to, you know, all your mainly your sports ones, but listen to Julie Christie.
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What an opening. What an opening. Oh, this is unbelievable. Well, we're off to
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a off to a great Well, this is really humbling. I actually um I I wasn't going
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to bring this up, but um you and I have never met. Eh, I don't think I don't
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think so either. I was in um New World last week and uh you were in the selfs serve um next to me and I was told about
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this and you were too scared to talk to me. I was like, "Is that David Lis? Is
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it not David Lis?" And when I could positively identify you, I was like, "Is
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now the the the moment to ask him to come on my podcast or not?" And I let the moment go. And then the ne the very
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next day um one of your publicity team messaged me asking if if you'd be a guest on the podcast. It was very funny
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because um another podcast had asked me to go on it and I just said no don't
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like them and better not say that I suppose in case who it was but then I said no and then
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one of the publicists came back and said what about you and I said well he's
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great I listen to him. Oh amazing. Oh well thank you. This is your very first um podcast. First? Yeah. Podcast as
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such? Yes. Yeah. Lots of interviews but not podcasts. There's there's so much to
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talk about. Um yeah. First of all, like the Oh, I mean there's so many directions to go in. Like I I really
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want to get to know um the, you know, David Lis, you know, beyond the investigates series. Um but then there's
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so many questions. I said on Instagram you're coming and there's so many
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questions from people. So what do you want to do first? focus on missing pieces or focus on David Lass. You're
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the boss. That's true. Well, first of all, um on Instagram, uh one of the questions I got was um during his time
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in news, was Kate Hawksby the loveliest and best news reader he ever worked for.
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Did Kate send it in? She did. She did. And then she said, "Give him my love."
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No, she she was fantastic. She Yeah. Amazing to work with. Just so um skillful. I mean, I can't remember what
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it was. with some big event on and we were doing live and it was just she just carried it without him blinking an eye,
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you know. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I've been Is that all right, Kate? I've been I
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message you like every 3 months or so to try and get her to come on the podcast.
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I'll eventually wear her down. I've got a huge amount of admiration for her and
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Mike. Yeah. No. Yeah. So, um yeah, David LZ, um your TV show launched in 2009, 16
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years ago, eight or nine, I'm not sure. Yeah, you've done your research. Um, names
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including Missing Pieces, Lost and Found, and David Lomass Investigates. Why? Why the is is this a network thing
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jumping from network to network? Do you lose the the rights to the name or No. Um, like NZ on Air has this sort of
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policy that every after four funding rounds, you need to reinvent yourself. And so each time you have to reinvent
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yourself, you have to change the name. So, Missing Pieces was 30 minutes and we did two stories and a what we call a
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call out, you know, asking, "Has anybody seen this person?" And then um so that
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was fantastic that very short and it was sort of um I'm looking for the dad.
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There's your dad. Go and say hello. And that was the story. But then we went,
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excuse me, um, then we actually went to a thing called, um, Family Secret, um, which we just did
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for a year, which broadened it out and we'd look for people, we would we'd
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solve mysteries, but the network was terrible, the network wanted to go back to um, just strictly family
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stuff. So we started lost and found and that was um two stories to the hour and sometimes just one story and it got much
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more complicated and involved and uh and then we got to then we had to change our
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name again and nobody could think of a name so they said call it call it David Lis investigates and we've done that and
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um and next year we're going to do a new one again which is going to be called
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Breakthrough with David Lis. So yeah, for the same reason the NZ on every in how does how does a [ __ ] like seven days
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get away with it? Well, yeah, there's lots of um sort of funny things like they fund uh country calendar. They
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don't tell country calendar. They don't fully fund country calendar. They don't
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tell them to change their name. But it's, you know, but it is good because it reinvigorates you. you have to think
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about what you are and what you're doing and um and look look how he can change
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stuff and and it gives the viewer a sort of um new look too. So that's good. So
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all these different names but it's all basically basically the same sort of concept and in that time there's been
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over aundred stories. Oh many more than that. Um probably three or 400 to hear. Unbelievable. And over 12,000 requests
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for help. Um it'll be yeah definitely over 12,000. Yes, it might be up around 15 by now.
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But when when I say that there's a lot of them um which write in and you know
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say I'm trying to find what happened to my grandfather, you know, well and and
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the person's 70. So we're not going to find a grandfather alive. So those ones
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sort of sort of um add a lot to the number of people who have applied, right? Like a junk pile. Um my words,
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not yours. Yeah. Well, but we we're looking to find people living, you know,
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we want to give an answer. And sometimes they're dead, but we find a living relative who who knows the person, but u
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to to search for some the history of a dead relative. That's not our our our
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story. Yeah. Yeah, cuz you you wouldn't get that TV moment at the end. Would you
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have someone running towards a gravestone? There's no Yeah, that's right. We've had a couple of tears at
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gravestones um when giving an answer. But uh yeah, and um the other ones which we get a lot of is um the impossible
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ones and um it's you know uh I had an affair in a pub and um you know I can't
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remember the guy's name, you know. So you can do DNA and get answers to those,
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but in the end if you just do you're just doing that and you do a DNA test, it's not much of a story, right? Yeah.
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You need a couple of strands of information to work on, don't you? And and um for most of these cases that have
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been on TV, you've done the flower technique. No. Uh no. Was that a new thing? No. No. Well, we started doing it
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when um the phone book started disappearing, you know, and um and we just do it when someone's in Australia or somewhere
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and you can't get to them and you you think, well, what do I do? And how do you you used to be able to send a
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telegram, too? I mean, you not in my not for this, but when we were younger. Um but how else do you do it? I mean, you
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can't you can hire someone to go and knock on the door, but it's cheaper to
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send flowers and you know, someone who gets flowers will always look at them and said, "What's all this about?" And
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and they'll think hard about it because, you know, there's been money spent to
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find them and all that sort of thing. So, yeah. So, it works and it's amazing
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how often it works. I mean, we actually did it to a woman in Christ Church who um I you know, we knew her address and I
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just couldn't get hold of her and I thought, "Oh, I'll send flowers." Rang
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up New Brighton uh flower shop and they deliver them that afternoon. That evening she rang me. It's just like
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that. What does the card say? Is it like a the same sort of text every time? No.
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Make it up on the day. I mean, yeah, it's hi. I'm I'm you know who I am and
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what what I'm looking for. Yeah. So, wow. It's a It's a great little hack.
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It's very very effective. Um, what's it been like for you becoming um becoming
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becoming famous at this age and stage of life? Like when were you like mid-50s, 60 before, you know, you started having
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that thing where you're sitting in cafes and you can notice people looking at
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you? Yeah. Um, it's just very funny. I mean, is it enjoyable? Oh, well, I don't mind because um yeah,
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most people are are being nice. I mean, well, everyone basically is nice. I mean, you know, it's um not like they're
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coming up and say, you know, you played a [ __ ] game yesterday, you know, poor all blacks and get get abused like that,
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but everyone just comes up and often tell me fascinating stories about their lives, which is good. But yeah, it's
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very strange. I mean because I never wanted to be on television and um if it was a surprise that um even this show
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you know missing pieces when we started it I was just going to um produce it and
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then the very first story we started shooting I was on the phone trying to find this guy and and
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um we just couldn't get him to answer and I'm ringing and I got hold of his
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son and um and his son says well why do you want to know and I said well I can't
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tell you until to talk to your dad and it was sort of become a standoff and and I said to the camera quick just shoot
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this yeah we'll never know if we'll need it and um and then um the guy actually
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agreed in the end and I had to drive way up to Lake Cage and uh by the time I got
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there it was night and he was in a farmhouse and out out in the middle of nowhere and uh he was doing some uh
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drainage work or he was a digger operator. you know, he was um fixing a road up there. And I said to the
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cameraman, "Run in the paddic and just start filming." And I put a radio mic on
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and went inside and and they filmed that. And then when I went back to the office, I just said, "Yo, look, we've
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got sort of an answer and all this, but um they started looking at the footage and um Greg Heathcoat, who was uh Julie
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Christiey's sort of uh offsider or partner and um and partner in the program, not life. Um, looked at it and
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said, "This is amazing. You're on camera." That's what happened. And so
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all of a sudden, I was in front of a camera. Yeah. And now here you are in your early 70s and you're on the cover
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of Women's Weekly and it's it's a it's a um it's remarkable the twists and turns of life.
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Oh, staggering as I say. I mean, you know, I just and never imagined that anyone would you I could walk I couldn't
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walk down the street and be totally anonymous. But now all of a sudden, you know, lots of people sort of do
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recognize me. And um it's funny you know um my partner Clarinda was walking behind me in the supermarket and she
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says you wouldn't believe how many people say something after you walk by and start looking at you you know which
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is as I say it's nice because it means people are watching the program which is
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just fantastic. Oh they sure are like um you know re the genre reality TV or when
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I had Julie Christie on the D Julie Christie on the podcast I think she called it unscripted drama. Unscripted
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is that what it's called? whatever the whatever the the name is. But it's like it gets a very bad rap
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with shows like Married at First Sight, which is amazing by the way, but awful. Um, but then that that is the genre of
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your show, and it's just it's incredible TV. Yeah, it is. I mean, uh, you know,
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we're sort of a cross between I mean, every story I do would would be, you know, current affairs programs like I
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used to run 60 Minutes many years ago. If someone had come up and and said, "I've got this story." One of the
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reporters, we would have grabbed it in in a heartbeat. So, it's sort of between
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reality and and current affairs. I mean, because, you know, you you see the Herald if if the Herald get a story
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which they can solve about a family finding each other. It's it's in there.
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It's it's a big story. So, you know, we're not far from journalism. Journalism still, which is what I like.
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Yeah. I um Yeah. Yeah, sort of unrelated, I recorded a podcast last week with um Dylan Boucher, one of New
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Zealand's greatest basketball players of all time. Um just recently he's got the
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job of president of the Breakers. Um and I asked him when the last time he cried
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was and yeah, he said it was watching David Lumis investigates. He said most week he he cries. Um yeah, you you're
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making a lot of people cry. It's amazing. I mean, you know, two of the best compliments I've ever had come from
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a couple of, you know, sort of my heroes. Um I was in Parumu one day and this walking along the street and this
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car comes into a screeching hole out jumps this guy and runs up to me. He says David Lois, how are you? And it was
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Christian Cullen. I was just blown away. I I'd be running up to him and say, "Christen Cullen, how
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are you?" But he came up and so that was lovely. And then I was um doing a a race
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on Waki um um from uh on Tangi Beach to the warf and that and uh this walkers start and runners start at the same time
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and um old um Graeme Henry was standing there and the only time I've ever spoken
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to Graeme Henry was um when I was doing some work for radio and uh I'd asked him
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at a news press conference I says so you're continuing with the rotation this
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year and you just glared at me. He just glared at me and he said, "What rotation, but then he walked up to me
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out there and he just shook my hand." Said, "I just love your program." So,
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it's so lovely when that happens. Yeah. It's so gratifying, right? It's crazy.
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Um, all right. Well, let's go let's go all the way back um to paint a picture
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of, you know, who David Lass is. So, you're from a town called T uh Ty Ponamu
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in the South Island. Where is that? Ty Panamu. Yeah, it is the South Island. Oh. Oh, okay. Oh, I'll be editing this
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bit out. Okay. I thought it was a town in the South Island. Um, whereabouts in the South Island? Uh, well, I was born
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in Blenhan, but um I didn't really live a lot in South Island because we moved
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to Fiji when I was very young, but went back to um live out of um Deneden on the
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Ty Plains when I was in my uh standard two to standard six at school. Yeah. So yeah, you what's your earliest memory?
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My earliest memory um well it's up in Fiji. Um and you know we used we had a
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great life up there and I can just remember swimming in the swimming pool and and uh you know riding you know
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tricycles around and that sort of thing. Yeah. But uh I suppose that's it. But
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yeah, nothing startling. Yeah. So your dad was um an air traffic controller. Yes. So when was this? Like in like in
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the 1950s? Was it was it like sea planes or in Fiji or or Yeah, just in in like in in general? No, no. Um when I was
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born um dad was up at um uh Woodburn uh in Benham at the airport there. um uh he had been he had got into air
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traffic control through being in the air force in the um Pacific during the war and um and then it
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um sorry where we were going we were yeah um and so it was just the very start of air traffic control and then he
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got a job up in Fiji because all the um the longhaul planes from the US would would island hop that you know and um so
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They're always landing in in Nandy at the airport there and uh it was DC6s, DC7s and things like that and um Globe
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Masters and um and uh you know all all the celebrities in the world came through there at the time. Um you know
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what's her name? Um h gosh got a brain fade. Um, can't think of the name. Oh, are we
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still talking? No, no, this in Nandy. Um, breakfast at Tiffany's. Who was that
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actor? Oh, Audrey Hippen. Yeah, Audrey Hippon came through there. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember, you know, as um everyone
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at the airport was in in a buzz because she was going to get off the plane. So, you know, the mums were all down there
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looking. And um yeah, you had the Lord bound Baton and things like that wandering through. But yeah, it was a
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fascinating time. And and and now look at you. It's come the full circle now.
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You're maybe New Zealand's most frequent flyer. There's so by the way, there's so many
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questions on Instagram about your um your Air New Zealand status and some other um airport related questions.
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We'll get to them later, but um yeah. So um boarding school in Wellington in when
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was this? The late late60s. Um from My parents went back up to Fiji just when I was turning 15. So I did the last three
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years of schooling at um Wellington College. Yeah. So yeah. How was that experience? It was fantastic. Um abs
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absolutely amazing. I love boarding school and uh yeah, Wellington College was a very uh liberal boarding school.
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Um my parents had when I first left decided that I should um we actually private boarded when in the fifth form
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and then in sixth form I went to boarding school and but decided I should go down to Christ Church where a lot of
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mom's relatives were and sent me to St. Beads and I just hated it and um but I'd
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met all all these guys up in Fiji during school holidays and that most of them were going to Wellington College. So I
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so I said to dad, "Can you get me out of here? And and is this sort of when um when the
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love of writing or or journalism came because you you you and this is the cutest story by the
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way. This is something that would just never it would never never happen these days. But you used to write ice hockey
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reports and then just drop them on the doorstep of the newspaper and they publish them. Yes. Yes. Um it's the most
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random bizarre story now. Like imagine a handwritten note on the doorstep of the
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Herald. It's crazy. No. Well, I I'd started playing ice hockey um in in the third form. Um that I lived
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out in Miramar Way and there's an ice skating rink out there in those days and
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there'd been a bit of publicity about it and my brother who was a um Peter who
00:19:03
was also a journalist and already a journalist. He had written a story about this rec recruitment campaign and he
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said go down and see see what it's like. So my brother and I and two or three
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mates went down there and uh we were told we can skate whenever we wanted to and all that sort of thing. And uh so we
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we started playing hockey and um and uh Peter used to get someone to do reports for the
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um talk to him about it and send and for the Dominion. And I thought well no one's doing it for the Evening Post. So,
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I just started writing them and I'd slip them. It was a little um thing. But
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sports in those days, a lot of people um dropped off sports results through this
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little uh cubby. Oh, like an after hours letter box. Yeah. And I started doing it
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and I never put my name on it or anything like that, but um they they just published them and and say I was at
00:20:01
school one day and I was that that year I was still at St. Pat's College and um
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and the recctor of here calls calls me out and you know when you get called out at assembly you think you're in trouble
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and he handed me an envelope and it was a check for I don't know about 12 shillings or something I mean was a
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dollar 20 I don't know what it was but it was it wasn't a big amount but in
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those days it was it was good enough and um and one hell of a pleasant shock. How
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did how did they track you down? Um, I think they must have asked it at someone must have asked at the ice hockey thing
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and who who's doing this and and the guys there knew I was doing it. So, I suspect that's how Harry how he found
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out. But and I don't know why he sent it to school because if he had worked out
00:20:47
who I was, he probably knew who my brother was. But but they sent it to school. And so did you do that because
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you loved Yeah. Why didn't you put your name on it? And and were were they just trying to
00:21:00
get my head around it. Were they were they were they structured sort of stories or was it sort of Oh, they were
00:21:05
basically very simple. You know, Red Hawks beat you know whatever the other team was in those days at 53 you know uh
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uh I was trying to think of the guys who played with Wind Van Wind Vanir you know
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stopped three made brilliant stops or something like that. So it was just like facts and information but but it was
00:21:24
yeah just a little story about five or six parts probably. Yeah. But uh and is that is that where is that was sort of
00:21:30
where the love of writing or journalism came? Is that where you thought I could make a career out of this?
00:21:35
Well later um I started doing more stuff and then um Peter said why don't you come start
00:21:43
doing some weekend work on the Dominion and um uh Alex Vasy who was sports editor of Dominion said yeah yeah we'll
00:21:51
give him a job and um so I started writing the weekends for the um Dom the Sunday Star Times as went out then and
00:22:00
um so I sort of stopped playing uh Saturday sports and started um you know covering sport and and it just grew from
00:22:09
there. It was be it was never a conscious decision to become a journalist at that stage but
00:22:15
as soon as I was doing it I just knew that's what I was going to do. So what
00:22:20
else did you think you wanted to do? Oh because I've been raised Catholic for a
00:22:25
while I always used to put down priest you know because when they asked you what do you want to be and forest
00:22:30
ranger. Forest ranger. Well, well, cuz I love being in the outdoors, but but uh yeah, you just had no idea when you're
00:22:38
14 or 15, but from about 15 onwards, I always knew it was going to be journalism. Yeah. Yeah, that seems like
00:22:46
a very um I don't know, even like flamboyant occupation at that point. Yeah, it was a long time ago. Oh, well,
00:22:54
journalism was um you know, print journalism was was absolute king then, you know. Um radio wasn't didn't exist.
00:23:01
television really didn't exist. It was it had started but you know you you didn't see it as um really serious
00:23:08
journalism. It was um black and white and slow and always a day behind. Um so it was a a great place to get into and
00:23:17
it's just it's the most amazing job. It's the you know grandstand on the
00:23:22
world you know you sit there and you're right in the front row. So yeah it's
00:23:27
crazy. Yeah. Just the the like the change you've seen in the media landscape e over your decades. Yeah.
00:23:33
It's nuts. Like a lot of the a lot of the um the papers you work for, they're
00:23:36
not they don't even exist anymore. No. Um I was trying to think if it's one
00:23:40
that that I've worked for that still exists. Um Dominion kind of does. Well,
00:23:44
no. Now they gone and changed it to the post only. And Oakland Star, that's no longer
00:23:50
there. The Wongoi Chronicle. Is that still a The cron's still going. Is it? Is it? Yeah. How long were you in Wongoi
00:23:56
for? Oh, only only about a year. I when I finished um I went went to Vastie because I couldn't left school and I was
00:24:04
going to be a journalist, but I just wanted to enjoy life for a little while. I went up and um started playing rugby
00:24:10
again and um still played ice hockey up here and um just had a great, you know, couple of years at Vasti and um then I
00:24:18
thought I better get a job. So uh I went and did the journalism course at AUT AIT
00:24:24
or ATI ATI as it was back then and um that was 6 months and at the end um the Herald offered me a job, the Star
00:24:32
offered me a job but the Wonganui Chronicle was always also looking for someone and I thought no I'm going to go
00:24:38
there because there I'd be someone because there's only three or four journalists
00:24:44
whereas in the Herald and Star you you'd probably be writing up the shipping
00:24:48
notes and uh taking the weather on uh Queen Street. So So uh I went there and then um I was there for about a year and
00:24:58
uh then chap called Arman Lindenberg who I'd worked with on the Dominion was up
00:25:03
covering the um athletics meeting where I think John Walker was running. But anyway, it was one of those classic mile
00:25:12
events at Cook's Garden and um he saw me there and he said, "Lus, what are you
00:25:17
doing here?" And I said, 'I'm working on the Chronicle. He said, 'N no, you're
00:25:20
not. You're coming to the Dominion. So about 3 weeks later, I was back on the
00:25:26
Dominion there. And it just world just kept going on. Yeah. What did life look like for a journalist back then? Well,
00:25:34
you weren't um you weren't getting wealthy. That was for sure. Um but it was just an exciting
00:25:41
job. I mean, you know, where else do you go? And every day is just something different. And, you know, you can be
00:25:48
jumping on a on a plane and flying to the west coast to, you know, a little one seater, you know, one one engine
00:25:55
plane down the coast when a boat's upturned and there's people stuck inside. You can be flying up to a train
00:26:02
crash at Wuru, you know, and, you know, fires out at murder scenes, you know, interviewing famous people. I mean, how
00:26:11
good for, you know, person in their early 20s. Yeah. And you covered some big stories in your time, e like um the
00:26:18
Arabus disaster. Well, Arabus was really funny because um it was just a really quiet night at work and
00:26:25
um there had been a um little fire on Brooklyn Hill and I'd just got in a car
00:26:30
and driven up there to see what it was like. And then I heard that um the um Air New Zealand flight was overdue.
00:26:38
So I shot back to work and we started working and I had a a mate John Barnhill who um was very good at police radio. So
00:26:46
I rang him up and I said, you know, can you get Mcmebermeto radio? And he fiddled round, fiddle around and and he
00:26:52
got it. And so back at the office I had the um McMmetoro radio on. I had John had his phone next to the radio and I
00:27:02
had the phone next to me and we were just sitting there listening and listening and they were searching. And
00:27:07
then um it must have been just after midnight they said you know we've located wreckage on the back side of
00:27:13
Arabus there there appears to be no survivors and that just came across and it was an amazing night because the
00:27:21
Dominion was going cold press that night so that they put an early deadline on and um I got this big break which we
00:27:29
knew it had crashed where it crashed and that there appeared to be no survivors and I had you know a recording of
00:27:37
And the presses were running and you know you know you love that idea of running down stop the presses literally.
00:27:45
Well I did run down and yell out stop the presses. Not didn't yell that out but and um the editor of the day he said
00:27:52
no we can't we can't we're doing you know it's we're stuck. And the um uh
00:27:59
printer the main printer there at the time a guy called Russell Gray just I had the script. Yeah, the um story there
00:28:07
and he came out and I gave it to him and he just disappeared. They did a new plate, stopped the press and shoved it
00:28:15
on and all of a sudden we have that story. I mean, no one else in New Zealand broke that for probably 2 or 3
00:28:21
hours, which was 2 2:33 in the morning or something. But the all all the other papers um could stop their presses and
00:28:28
do it. But it was just Dominion was on that um changeover between um you know hot type and cold cold. So it was an
00:28:38
amazing night. And um Mr. Asia maybe um New Zealand's most infamous um drug trafficker. Did you did you know Terry
00:28:46
Clark? No. Um you just involved in the story somehow? I was I was in Wellington. I
00:28:53
was doing a lot of police work in Wellington and I um when it started breaking the star broke it up in
00:28:59
Oakuckland and um but the Dominion sent me over to Sydney to sort of start investigating and you know try and find
00:29:07
out what was going on because the scene had been largely there and so I sort of did a lot of work on it but I couldn't
00:29:15
say at that stage but I did broke anything major. I mean I had new information in different parts but yeah
00:29:22
but you know my lucky break on that one came when I was asked to do the um uh documentary on it. Yeah. So yeah even
00:29:31
that's crazy the thought of like a journalist being sent over to Australia to like look at look into it like now
00:29:36
it's just sort of press releases from the police really that you're rewriting
00:29:39
isn't it? Oh yeah. And and that that was incredible because um that was what was
00:29:44
that early 80s or something like that. I went to King's Cross and and you know
00:29:49
just doing a bit of color stuff there. You walk into King's Cross and you went
00:29:53
into the um public toilets around around there and there were um you know syringes lying in in the in the in the
00:30:01
urinal really and and you know it was really seedy and um and uh make sure I get the right name. um a New Zealand
00:30:10
band name Dragon I think. Yeah, they they were said to be involved, you know, and uh you know, you were I was trying
00:30:19
to track down people who knew what they had been involved with and that and and just trying to track down people and
00:30:24
talk to police over there and and I was working a bit with the um police reporters on the Daily Telegraph in
00:30:32
Sydney. So, it was yeah, just quite an interesting time. Yeah. air travel was like um it was very expensive then you
00:30:39
know um I remember like mom and dad going to Sydney in I think 1980 or whatever when I was like seven years old
00:30:44
and it was an occasion you'd get dressed up and you'd have the flight over so for
00:30:48
a print organization to like send a journalist over that's a it's a big deal
00:30:52
yeah oh well it was the 80s it wasn't that bad early 80s before things got real
00:30:59
good was it and it was in the 80s that you made the transition over to TV late 80s So I I moved up to Oakland and um
00:31:09
work on the staff for a while and then I got offered a job on the um Oakland Sun
00:31:15
when that started. And so um and that was great because they first thing they did is they sent me to um to Paneang and
00:31:23
Malaysia to go and cover the Cohen trial, Aaron and uh Lorraine Cohen. And so I started work on this paper and I
00:31:32
was dispatched to um Paneang and I spent a month up there and then before and I never I hadn't seen the paper I was
00:31:40
working for until I got back to New Zealand and but you know I was writing all these stories from up there and that
00:31:46
was incredible. You covering a trial where someone was up to be um you know they could have been hung. Yeah. And you
00:31:55
know these um Aaron Lorraine each day they were marched into court and you know we as journalists we were always
00:32:03
there trying to talk to them as they came in and in court they were just sitting in front of us and we you know
00:32:08
we'd chat away and bit and um Lorraine's ex-husband Danny was up there and you
00:32:13
know he was always um Aaron's father and and was giving um you know helping them bringing in food
00:32:20
and things like that and but you know for those to I mean what what a experience I mean or a terrifying event
00:32:28
you know sitting there having their life decided by by a court. Yeah. Yeah. I think Lorraine's passed.
00:32:36
Is Aaron still alive? [ __ ] Had to be a great podcast guest, wouldn't he? Yeah.
00:32:40
I think I think so. Sorry. I don't That's right. He He ended up not getting
00:32:44
the death penalty, but getting um six lashes with that. Um he was going to get rotan. Yes. Right. Right. Which which
00:32:50
like breaks the skin of the the buttocks. It sounds most unpleasant. Yeah, it's like the old cane at school,
00:32:55
but but really brutal. Did you Did you get the cane at school? Well, as I say, when you get called at St. Pats, you get
00:33:03
called to direct go and see director after assembly. Yeah, I went to Palmer North Boys High
00:33:10
and um I think it was um abolished like midway through my my term there. Um so, in the first couple of years, parents
00:33:17
had to sign a consent form for their kids to be to be caned and um I was like, "Oh, sweet. Mom and dad won't sign
00:33:22
this." um because it was sort of 50/50, but sure enough they did. It's brutal.
00:33:26
Brutal. And the um yeah, Mr. Brookie, who was the the housemaster, like I think he got great pleasure every Monday
00:33:31
morning at assembly from reading out a list of names and then get to line up in the library for you and get whacked.
00:33:37
It's bizarre. Ah, those priests were a bit sadistic, I think. Yeah. So, um Yes.
00:33:44
So, so you you um moved from print to TV and um yeah, you you were working on the
00:33:50
home show, the iconic home show when that first launched on TV. Yeah, I went um as I say, the Oakland Sun, I went to
00:33:57
the Oakland Sun and that folded and then I was sort of unemployed and um an old old mate of well a friend of a mate of
00:34:04
mine who I'd become friends with, Paul Cutler, he um he said, "Oh, we'll give
00:34:09
you a job." And so I went and worked in TV. I had no idea what I was doing. And
00:34:14
um but yeah, they wanted someone who could find stories, develop stories. And um and then they were doing an
00:34:22
experiment with Paul Holmes. Um and we did a program called Midweek with Holmes. Um and it was about six of us on
00:34:32
it. Bill Rolston was one of them. And um it was an experiment to see whether Holmes would work on television. And so
00:34:39
we did that. And then um we launched Homes and uh we launched it with a bit of a bang.
00:34:46
Yeah. Episode one uh one of those iconic uh New Zealand TV moments. Um and it was
00:34:52
pre-recorded, right? The interview with Dennis Connor from um the US America's
00:34:55
Was it pre-recorded or live? Do you remember? I honestly can't remember. Yeah, I was there, but I can't
00:35:02
remember. But it's um it's a it's a walk it's a walk out. So, Holmes asked some
00:35:06
confronting questions and Dennis Connor's um he wanted him to apologize for for calling um the New Zealand
00:35:14
designer a loser, you know. That's right. So, like get off the stage. Losers aren't allowed on the
00:35:20
stage. So, what So, what what are your Yeah. What are your recollections of that time of that time? Well, well,
00:35:27
Homes, you know, was just a fantastic program to work on. I mean um when we launched it, it was a sort of total new
00:35:35
sort of current affairs style. I mean the first episode we had a um interview with a guy um who
00:35:45
um was suspected of murdering Kursa Jensen and you know I'd got that interview and that was you know
00:35:53
sensational enough. And then then we did a story on um uh a woman in Napia who had 39 cats and her neighbors were
00:36:02
getting upset. So doing a story that and then we had of course Dennis Connor to top it all off and and when it all
00:36:08
happened I mean it was just fantastic. But um the next day there was sort of a big split in the newsroom. There was
00:36:17
those who all thought that you know it was an outrageous show and it was awful and you know how dear all this happened
00:36:23
and this tabloid television and then the homes crew were we were sitting in another area whole thing
00:36:32
with are we going to survive is this going to be good and of course yeah there was a lot of controvers
00:36:39
controversy over it but you know it just boomed and then we just kept doing things and you know Paul was an amazing
00:36:46
chap to work with him? Did you work with him? No, I I met him a few times. Had some drinks with him at Radio Awards and
00:36:53
stuff. I was a huge huge fan. Massive massive fan of um Yeah. Sir Paul Holmes. But um yeah, I love hearing stories
00:36:59
about him. Did he ever blow a stack at you? He must have told you off once or twice. Oh, not really. But uh but we
00:37:06
created this Uncle Arthur thing and I got the job of taking him out. We we wanted to get him out in the field and
00:37:13
uh the our name in the office for him was sort of Uncle Arthur. And so he was always this goofy guy who goes out and
00:37:20
the first thing we got him to do was um Kelly Evan, the uh very good tennis player was in town. And um so we
00:37:27
arranged for him to do an interview of Kelly, but we decided that we'd get Paul
00:37:32
dressed up in uh white tennis gear and baggy pants and all that and stand on the court and try and hit a hit a serve
00:37:39
when Kelly put it down. And poor old Holmes, he's you flopping all over the place. But it was just, you know, that
00:37:45
was the creation of that Uncle Arthur sort of idea of him, which he did for years and years afterwards. And yeah, it
00:37:52
was just a really vibrant time. I mean, we did a everyone on the program just did amazing stories. Yeah. We we sort of
00:38:00
um there hadn't been anything like it in New Zealand television and uh yeah, it
00:38:06
probably hasn't been anything like it since either. Yeah. Because during that
00:38:10
time he he became like proper famous like probably the most famous man in New Zealand I guess like he was um yeah the
00:38:16
the ratings were increasing on ZB and he was doing this evening show. Um, yeah, there were pap when his marriage broke
00:38:23
up, there's paparazzi outside his house. It was like a he Yeah. One of the most
00:38:27
recognizable men in New Zealand and probably highest paid as well. Did he Did he change over that time or No, he
00:38:33
he was incredible. I mean, you know, I'd go out with him quite a lot on, you
00:38:37
know, doing shoots with him when he was talking to people and things like that. And he was just um an incredibly
00:38:45
um able to relate to just about anyone, you know, and you know, gang guys would come up to him and talk to him and he'd
00:38:52
just chat away. He was, you know, the common touch they call him, I think. Yeah. He he was, you know, really good
00:38:58
at that. Yeah. And um but you know, he he was really stretching himself. He was doing the morning show, as you say. He'd
00:39:06
come into work. We'd do a a morning meeting with him. go go go home and have
00:39:09
his sleep for a couple of hours. Come back and prep for the evening show and then you know he's up again at that
00:39:17
finished at um what 7:30 or whatever it was and then a slight debrief and find out what was going on. Then he'd go home
00:39:24
and up at 3:00 in the morning to do his morning show. I mean he was uh yeah pushing it.
00:39:31
Yeah. I I had Sir John Key on the podcast and he told a story about homes. He said he was at a restaurant in Panell
00:39:36
like one Friday or Saturday night with Brona and Holmes was there with a group of friends and they called him over for
00:39:42
a drink. So he had a drink with him then he was like no I've got to Holmes was
00:39:45
ordering another bottle and John was like I got to go cuz we're we're interviewing tomorrow on Q&A or whatever
00:39:50
it was. So he went home for sleep and then um Holmes ordered another bottle and then the next morning he said home
00:39:56
seemed a little bit dusty but then as soon as the cameras were on just sharp as attack. Yeah. No, that was him. He
00:40:01
was he had an incredible stamina for a for for a chap who really didn't have
00:40:06
stamina. Yeah. Amazing. You were um you were involved in um the helicopter crash. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So this was 1989
00:40:16
89. Yeah. Middle of June or end of June actually. Yeah. Do um do you want to talk are you okay to talk about it?
00:40:24
Yeah. There's no So yes. So what happened? You you It was you Paul Holmes. Well, there was a chapam Rana White who
00:40:33
uh was a police commander. Well, yeah, an inspector in Wellington who was an old mate of mine and he'd just been
00:40:40
promoted to become the first Mai district commander for the East Coast and they were going to have a formal
00:40:48
welcome for him at um the Tiki Tiki Marai up right up the top there. And so I got hold of Rana and said, you know,
00:40:56
would you do it? and and you know can we come and do a big program on of homes and he said yeah and Holmes was really
00:41:03
keen because he was uh very sympathetic to all things Mali and that so um we flew down there it was a a Saturday and
00:41:13
uh the welcome was on in the afternoon but it was um torrential rain and so we'd flown to Gisbon in a um charter six
00:41:25
six or eight seater plane And then we'd got a helicopter up to um uh Ticky Ticky
00:41:31
and because it was torrential rain, everything ran late and um and then we had a sort of deadline because Paul had
00:41:39
a speech he had to do in Oakuckland that night and um and we had to leave I can't
00:41:45
remember at 4 4:00 or 4:30 but um the thing was late so it was getting close to 5 or whatever it was at the time and
00:41:54
we all jumped in the chopper And um because we're all soaking wet, it sort of steamed up a bit and and we took off
00:42:01
and um and then um our sound man, we'd been out up in the air for about 5 minutes and remembered he had left all
00:42:09
his radio mics on different people in in the Marai. So we flew back and landed there. Took off again. By this stage
00:42:16
we're we're getting quite late and dusk is coming in and uh we flew down the
00:42:21
coast and still raining and the chopper was fogging up a bit. we sort of keeping
00:42:26
the windows clear and um then we flew we were flying quite low so because the pilot I think was following the coast um
00:42:34
I'm not sure how high but I didn't think it was a few hundred feet up and uh we
00:42:40
threw flew around a headland and he just flew into a squall and um totally lost visibility I suspect that's what we've
00:42:49
told and um and you know you hear that um noise in a chopper when it's um blades are slowing up or something. Is
00:42:57
that D, you know, and just that and then the next minute we're upside down in the
00:43:02
water and uh it was uh you know what the hell's happening here? So yeah. Is that terrifying at the time or
00:43:12
is it does it happen so quick you just sort of bewildered? I had absolutely no idea. It was flying thud thud thud and
00:43:19
then you're upside down water. I cannot actually remember the crash and it was just all so fast and I
00:43:30
um I think the chopper pilot had when he had lost vision had had sort of pulled back speed altogether. So I think we we
00:43:38
didn't fly into the water. We we sort of just rolled into the water and um yeah
00:43:44
we're upside down but it was almost dark then. I mean the the houses as we'd been
00:43:50
coming along the coast the lights were really you know showing so you know it was quite
00:43:57
dark and then when we're upside down it was very dark and um then we all got out
00:44:02
and um uh well all of us but the cameraman got out and um and we got out and we're looking
00:44:11
around where's where is Joe and um uh then we realized he wasn't there. So, I
00:44:17
dived in and uh looked for him under in the upside down chopper and I grabbed him and I fel felt his leg and and um
00:44:26
that must have um shocked him into action because he jumped out and who was holding me down or something like that
00:44:31
when he got up and um and then we sort of uh just gathered on in the water and uh the pilot um had got the emergency
00:44:42
locator beacon out, but that was like a brick, a genuine like a brick. and and um we were sort of holding well I was
00:44:49
holding at that stage and we were talking about and I said what's the use of this you know we're it's by this
00:44:55
stage about 6:30 or something in um off the east coast of uh New Zealand what plane's ever going to fly across here
00:45:02
who's even going to know for a long while that we're missing and um uh so we decided to throw that away
00:45:11
because nobody's going to see it or get get the signal And uh we tried to swim
00:45:17
ashore and um and uh on the way in we lost Joe and um which was terrible. Um it was quite squaly and you know we got
00:45:29
him quite a long way in and then um another big squall came through and cuz he couldn't swim. He he just panicked a
00:45:36
bit which of course you would if you're lying there if water's you know going
00:45:42
into your mouth and that and um and uh we lost him there. Yeah. How far from shore were you? How far did you have to
00:45:50
swim to get in? Well, I estimate we went when we went back the next day to um you know sort
00:46:01
of bit of research and and not not for research but just to get some give the searches a bit of an idea what what had
00:46:09
happened. Um I thought it was probably about 700 800 meters out. Um but I don't
00:46:15
know for sure. I mean but yeah, there's no way of knowing. It took us uh probably 45 50 minutes to get ashore,
00:46:23
but I mean um most of us were in quite heavy and big coats and that I I stripped down to my shirt and
00:46:33
and with took my pants off and shoes off and that um Holmes took his jacket, big
00:46:39
coat off, but he for some unknown reason he kept his shoes on and um maybe they were
00:46:44
expensive. And anyway, um when we got ashore, it was um you know, it was freezing of course because it was middle
00:46:53
of winter and um the water wasn't that warm either. But um and then we didn't
00:46:59
know where we were cuz when we got ashore there was no lights anywhere. We're just up against a cliff. And uh so
00:47:06
we sort of I climbed up a bank and I could feel um there was a flat area and I could feel it was a path or a track
00:47:15
and we got so we all got up there and we said which way to go and uh the decision
00:47:19
was to go left because people had seen lights on the left just around when we're out swimming
00:47:27
in there'd been lights on the left. So we went that way and got to a farmhouse
00:47:31
and uh all of a sudden raised the alert that we'd crashed. Yeah, that must have been bizarre for
00:47:37
the people in the farmhouse. Paul Holmes, one of the, you know, most recognizable New Zealanders on, you
00:47:42
know, the the doorstep in this disheveled sort of state. Well, yeah, we knocked on the door. I'm standing there
00:47:48
in my undies basically homes the um chopper poll and I had sort of carried had homes between us cuz he was
00:47:59
quite hypothermic really at that stage and yeah banged on the door and this old couple came to the door and we said oh
00:48:06
we're in a helicopter that's crashed and well they didn't know of course but you
00:48:11
know we thought people would know by then but um yeah so that's how we alerted people. Yeah. Oh, and you to um
00:48:19
strip homes off and get them in a bath. Yes. Well, yes, I can say I've taken strip four homes. Yes. And one of
00:48:28
one of many of the stories out of belief. Um yeah, that's a that's a really traumatic thing to go through.
00:48:35
Yeah. How how do you process that? Like there's this is so this is 30 35 years
00:48:40
ago. So there's a lot more awareness now about PTSD and mental health and triggering situations. But you did you
00:48:47
have any counseling or therapy or anything after that or Yes. Um TVNZ sort of insisted but I went and saw a um
00:48:54
someone I can't remember what what um title they had and it was good because
00:48:59
it was just a chance to to talk because um again it was that uh newsroom feeling
00:49:05
when you know afterwards it's um why why did we do that? Why why did we get ourselves into that situation?
00:49:15
And you know and TVNZ changed its protocols quite a bit after that. You know that um everyone had to go do
00:49:23
underwater evacuation training that the helicopter going way back. The helicopter had no um life jackets in it.
00:49:32
So that's when we got out. There was nothing nothing that could float. And uh
00:49:36
that's why we had to swim. If there'd been life jackets, Joe would be alive
00:49:40
today, of course. Um and uh why did we fly in that weather? You know, who had made those decisions? And um you know,
00:49:49
so it was and so it was quite intimidating back in the office because uh you know, people had lost a a very
00:49:56
dear friend and colleague and Joe and they're wanting answers and you know who
00:50:02
who made the calls, you know, and and when you think about it, nobody made the calls. It was just we were going there,
00:50:10
we're going to film that, and then we jump in the chopper and fly back. There
00:50:14
was no thought that anything like that would happen. No. Yeah. Did Did something like surviving something like
00:50:19
that change you as a person? Um, yeah. Made me I slightly rash decision. A few months later, I I got
00:50:30
married slightly on a whim. Um, well, just was it one of those moments where it's like life's too
00:50:37
short. I got a Well, it was because I' I'd was single and I sort of doing just
00:50:44
going out with different women for a while and um and then um I met a lady who I really enjoyed her company and um
00:50:52
and we just decided within 3 months of that crash and it was sort of a somewhere in there I'd probably thought
00:51:00
you know I've got to sort my life out because you know I've been given this ch
00:51:05
second chance but um you know, the marriage didn't didn't last, but but I
00:51:11
got a wonderful daughter, so you know, um but yeah, you make that decision and but yes, you're always very grateful
00:51:20
that you're you're still alive because you when you hear about other helicopter
00:51:24
crashes and things like that and you just think, why why did I survive and you know, why did we survive that one?
00:51:30
Yeah. Yeah. Very lucky. So, so the mar How long did the marriage last? Oh, for um 10 years or so. Yeah. Well, that's a
00:51:43
success. Is that a success? I having having been through a failed marriage myself, it's it's quite funny
00:51:49
actually. You stand in front of all your family and friends and you say you're
00:51:51
going to be together till you die. So, anything short of that does kind of feel like a fail in a way. But 10 years is I
00:51:58
mean it's it's an honest attempt. Yeah. I mean Yeah, I suppose so. But uh uh you
00:52:04
know if it lasted 10 years, you know, after little bit before that that it wasn't wasn't going well. So So yes, you
00:52:12
got two adult kids now. Yes. One from that relationship, one from another relationship. Yes. Is that the only time
00:52:18
you've been married? Just the ones. Well, going going way way back at university uh again um I was going out
00:52:32
with a lady there and um I was leaving town to go to the Wonganui Chronicle and back in those days early 70s I mean been
00:52:41
to lots of weddings by that stage of colleagues uh not colleagues but you know other people and I was moving down
00:52:49
there and and we decided that she would come down there too. And and with that decision, we decided to get married. And
00:52:57
um and that marriage went for six years. But then I joined the um was right into
00:53:03
newspapers and I when I went to the Dominion, I was working nights all the time and um and she was an accountant
00:53:11
and um our lives just drifted drifted apart and we didn't have children and uh
00:53:19
Yeah. And yeah, again um you know a very very nice person but um you know it we just drifted and that's what happened.
00:53:27
You still in touch or no? No. Um when I left Wellington I caught up with her and um and I haven't really
00:53:35
caught up with her since but if you're keen to I know a show that can help. Um and yeah so you've got a partner now
00:53:43
Clarinda. Um, I've read about I know about this cuz I've read about it in a
00:53:48
couple of um Women's Day stories. Women's Weekly. Women's Weekly. Sorry.
00:53:51
Thank you. They'll smack me on the hand if you Yeah. It's crazy. The twists and
00:53:57
turns of life like so in the in the ' 90s when you're with Holmes like he was
00:54:01
he was, you know, women's magazine fod and I suppose you could have never have
00:54:05
seen this for yourself and here you are at this stage of life and this is you. I
00:54:09
know. And it's it's funny publicity because um you know I have this sort of
00:54:15
thing. I ask people to be on television. I ask them to do this you know and I want to talk about their lives and and
00:54:22
so when people ask me will I do it I feel I can't turn around and say no it's
00:54:28
none of your business you know um I put myself out there. So you you feel you have a an obligation to you know respect
00:54:37
that other people want to know a little bit about you too. Yeah. Although this this this podcast by the way this it's
00:54:44
not a a stitch up or anything. So if there's anything I ask and you want to say none of your business, you just say
00:54:49
none of your business. Oh, can we go back? We can edit anything out. So, so funny.
00:54:56
There's nothing I edited out apart from a couple of dumb things I've said, but
00:54:59
you've you've been um the perfect guest. We've been going for almost an hour and
00:55:03
we haven't even started talking about missing pieces yet. Oh my goodness. Are
00:55:06
you on a are you on a time frame or anything or are you okay? Um should I say yes? No, I'd like to keep you on a
00:55:14
bit longer if we may. Okay. Um yeah. So, how you se We'll get to missing pieces
00:55:21
soon because there's so much to talk about with with that. Um, so you're 71
00:55:25
now? Two. 72. You're looking great, by the way. So you you you do ocean swims and you run.
00:55:35
Yeah, I I I not in your league any Well, not I don't know if I was ever in your
00:55:40
league, but I I try and run about 50k a week if I can or 40 to 50. Um, and I try
00:55:47
and swim uh or during summer I swim every day if not twice twice some days. And um yeah, so
00:55:56
yeah. So I've become um I'm I'm 52 now. Uh in the last maybe 5 years I've become
00:56:02
obsessed with um like aging role models. So I I look to see someone in their 70s
00:56:07
that's still active and still working and still mentally and physically physically fit. And I find it incredibly
00:56:12
inspiring. Um so you want what Yeah. What were you like when you were my age? Were you were you incredibly active and
00:56:18
fit then? Yeah. Yeah. I started um running. I got to about 30 and I was smoking and uh working in Dominion, you
00:56:26
know, working nights, going to the pub down to Britannia every night at 7 for a beer and and you're smoking, then you're
00:56:35
staying up all night because you know, you socializing after you finish work and going home at 4:00 or 5 in the
00:56:42
morning. And all of a sudden I realized that's who I was. And I decided, well, I
00:56:47
I was still playing a little bit of ice hockey then and um a bit of badminton, but I wasn't really doing any real
00:56:56
sport, so I took up running and I sort of got into marathons and and multisport and that sort of stuff. And yeah, so and
00:57:05
you know, I kept I just kept running. Um and I've never stopped. Um you that's the physical picture. And
00:57:12
what about the mental side of things? How have you keep yourself mentally sharp?
00:57:17
Well, running helps you amazingly. Um when I go, sorry, I've got this croak in my throat. Um running Yeah, it does
00:57:28
help you amazingly. You go out and that's your that's your time, your your
00:57:33
think time. And I I find, you know, exercise is that time you can relax and thing. But but yeah, the job's very
00:57:40
vibrant. I mean, it it keeps your mind going, too. It's, you know, um you're
00:57:45
always thinking about what how you can do things, what what you have to do. So, yes. How many weeks of the year are you
00:57:52
away? Are you away quite a lot? Um, yeah, it's it's um it's hard to sort of judge it because
00:58:01
in New Zealand we do, you know, you're away for two days, but you're only one
00:58:05
night or that. Um, but I just got back from a trip um now which is uh one of the longer trips I've ever done, which
00:58:13
was um almost five weeks. And uh that was um it's funny I I used an app on this trip and I kept a track of um what
00:58:24
I'd done and traveled and I did um 53,000 kilometers flying, 70 hours of actual flying. I mean, it's um that's
00:58:34
quite hard work and uh it's really draining and um and especially with all the air conss and that you just Yeah.
00:58:42
This is probably why I've got the croaky throat cuz all the air cons they they
00:58:48
really hurt you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about missing
00:58:52
pieces for a bit. Um so, um a lot of people want to know on Instagram about the boat shed. Yeah. So, is the boat
00:58:59
shed yours? I wish it was. Oh, you does the TV production company rent it from Yeah. Right. It was
00:59:10
um Julie and um Greg and Mike Mallaloy people who ran Touchdown Eye Works, they they owned
00:59:21
a boat shed down thing. And when we first started um missing pieces uh no missing pieces we just filmed in an
00:59:29
office a mad sort of scene but then when we moved on to Lost and Found we started
00:59:35
using the boat shed and we used Julie's one and then they decided to sell it but
00:59:41
they'd had a big party at another boat shed and um the one which we use now and
00:59:49
um and some very good friends of mine or my then wife and mine um uh rang us up and said uh David that boat shed you're
01:00:01
in you know do you know much about the boat sheds and I said no no we we that's people that works boat shed and
01:00:08
they said oh we're looking at buying one down there and I said oh yeah they were
01:00:13
fantastic and they told me which one I said oh that's an amazing boat shed because as I say we'd been to hired it
01:00:19
work had hired it for a party and they said, "They're getting in." And I said,
01:00:23
"Oh, yeah. Well, I'm looking for a boat shed to to do the program." And they
01:00:29
said, "Oh, well," and um yeah, you can use our one if you like. And um so um
01:00:34
that was John and Marin. They were amazing. And and so we use it for for filming obviously and and it's just a
01:00:41
fantastic location. So, do you do you actually sit there and do work or you there for an hour like doing a couple of
01:00:47
fake phone calls, a couple of fake emails, get the shots you need, and then leave? Um, I do work down there. I do.
01:00:55
So, it's not just getting the shot and then pissing off to the office at home.
01:00:59
Um, well, it was a lot of pissing off to the office at home as well. Um, and how
01:01:04
did how did the show like originally come about? Was it like your idea that you pitched or was it a producers's idea
01:01:09
or No, it goes way back to Julie Christie. I mean, Julie and I had worked together on um the Oakland Sun and and
01:01:17
she knew me and then um they she'd come up with an idea to do a thing called Lost Identity which was
01:01:24
um to reconnect young Mali chaps or Mali young Mali with their Marai and she wanted me to um produce it or direct it
01:01:36
and um and we talked about it and she said well that that'll be interesting first two or three times but after that
01:01:44
it would start to feel a bit repetitive and uh so we said why don't we just do
01:01:50
finding taking people back to meet family and um so it originated that way and and as I said earlier I wasn't
01:01:58
really meant to present it but when the first story we got was a um a woman in Australia uh was dying she needed a
01:02:08
um uh a um transplant. Not a transplant, but um bone marrow thing. Oh, yeah. Like
01:02:17
a transfusion or Yeah. And um so she was trying to find her biological father. And um so we did this, you know, frantic
01:02:25
search because it was sort of life and death. And that's when I would was trying to ring the guy in the farmhouse
01:02:32
and he was saying his son wouldn't give us the phone number. And so that was the first
01:02:38
story and and that's how I ended up on television. And um who was who was the
01:02:43
original host going to be? We wasn't going to be one. We were going to do it
01:02:47
as um all actuality. And um but then it the first instant as I say it turned out
01:02:54
that it was impossible to do as all actuality because the search was so integral to it. and um and you know by
01:03:03
accident I I became the presenter. It's amazing twist of events e Julie Christie
01:03:09
she's always had her sort of favorite presenter so it could have very very well been like Matthew Ridge present
01:03:18
or both of them with a can of fresh up. Um yeah, how how has the show evolved over time? Like um in terms of I think
01:03:26
technology has come a long way in the time since the show started. Landlines were a thing at the beginning and
01:03:31
they're not now. Has it be um Ancestry.com? I don't think that was even in existent when the show started.
01:03:37
Has has this made it um seismically easier or is is it is it just different? Um, when we look back at missing pieces,
01:03:48
it was relatively easy finding stories and and finding people. you'd get on the
01:03:54
phone and you'd ring up and if if that person didn't know, they'd tell you
01:03:59
someone else and you'd get on the phone and and and get there because we were
01:04:03
doing almost all New Zealand, Australia stories and everyone still had a phone, you know, 20 odd years ago or 18 years
01:04:11
ago. And um with lost and found it started getting more complicated and and as I say the um phones the land
01:04:20
landlines started disappearing and um and but also we were looking for stories where it was a bit of um travel
01:04:30
and searching and adventure and um so we we started looking for more complicated
01:04:37
stories and that's and we've just progressed doing more and more complicated as we can and and DNA was
01:04:44
fascinating when it came along, you know, that we could do DNA tests and get in, but then in the end um if a DNA test
01:04:52
is the way you solve it, it's not much of a story. I mean, but you can use DNA as a as a conduit to
01:05:03
an amazing story, which is what we did on uh the very first show of David Lis Investigates when we were trying to
01:05:11
solve the mystery of a baby left in a phone box in 1960 in Palmyon North. And um we tracked down um by doing a DNA
01:05:23
test we worked out who the biological mother was. But it was a confusing test because it seemed that
01:05:33
both the father and mother were somehow intertwined. And um and with that story we were able
01:05:41
to we worked out who who the parents were. And then but the real story is why did they
01:05:50
leave the baby in the phone box? And and then tracking down that story made it absolutely amazing. Um because it was a
01:05:59
I don't know did you ever see it? It was a story about a um a couple. It was a
01:06:04
uncle and uncle and his niece. They had got together um which is not an incestuous relationship. It's a legal
01:06:12
relationship. But back in the 60s they had no idea of that and they thought what they had done was illegal and so
01:06:19
they had taken the baby to the phone box, left it sitting in the phone box, sat in the car around the corner and
01:06:25
watched until someone found it. So um and that had been a mystery the police had tried to solve um quite a few
01:06:33
journalists over the years had tried to solve and um you know so that was an amazing story. So that's what we're
01:06:41
trying to do now. much more complicated stuff. How did you guys manage to solve that when so many others had tried and
01:06:47
failed over the years? Well, as I say, DNA, but the DNA was uh we found through the DNA we found the
01:06:58
son because the both the parents had died and he didn't know anything about the story. All all he knew, alls we got
01:07:08
was he was a match. And then we had to work backwards and find what the story was of his parents
01:07:15
and even he was raised by them. But he always thought the his father was his uncle because his
01:07:27
parents kept up the pretense of living in separate rooms even when they were raising him.
01:07:34
I'm going have to look at look for this episode. Being from Palmer North, I'm
01:07:37
not overly surprised. Um, what is what's the process when someone writes in like
01:07:43
there must be like some sort of filters or some sort of check boxes? Yes. Um, well, we we read them at work and then
01:07:50
you just look at them and you just think, does that work? Does that work? And then we we sort of come up a little
01:07:58
list of or constant changing list and we ring people up and um find out more information and try and find out how
01:08:06
solvable it is. Uh you know is is the story does it have the legs to make make a really good story and yeah so it's a
01:08:18
massive process of elimination. Yeah. Because because that's the thing it's
01:08:22
it's not a community service is it? It's um like creating you television
01:08:26
ultimately at the end of the day. Yeah. So while while you for the people that agree to be involved, it's um like a
01:08:32
service for them, it's the ultimate goal is to entertain a wider audience. It is.
01:08:37
Yeah. That um the people who get involved, they get an amazing deal. I mean, not only do we find their family,
01:08:43
we take them take them to meet them. Um that's part of the program. It's the
01:08:49
program pays for their journey. And so everyone gets a good deal in a way. Yeah. And at what stage do you become
01:08:57
involved? Like are you are you deep in investigation or are you mainly talent? No.
01:09:03
Um I Yeah. I mean I love the research part of it. Um but as the program's got
01:09:10
more complicated in my life, uh has too. So I don't get to quite do as much research as I like doing. um because you
01:09:17
know you're you're so busy filming and and uh putting the program together
01:09:22
afterwards. But yes, so it's a it's a funny old team. It's basically all old
01:09:29
people. Boomers. Boomers. Boomers working technology hard. That's right. Well, yeah, the television's pretty much
01:09:40
a young people's industry, you know, like reality type television. And when the uh you know team walks in the
01:09:47
average age the office goes voom. How yeah how big is the team? Uh most of the time well there's a cameraman who
01:09:57
there's two or three cameramen who work with us but they're all guys who I've
01:10:00
known for 20 or 30 years. Um there's couple of researchers depending on what we're
01:10:09
doing. They're both all both in their 70s and uh wow and you know like me. So
01:10:15
um and then um when we get into uh putting editing the program was um a post producer who's normally a very
01:10:23
experienced person and then there's a two depending on how many episodes we're
01:10:28
doing at a time two or three people cutting the stories. Are there many people that just don't
01:10:35
want to be found? Um yeah uh the people who just go to Australia and have no footprint. You know those
01:10:50
are the really hard ones. Um you know we've got lots of stories which we'd love to
01:10:56
solve and we just you know can't get any any link to them whatsoever. There's
01:11:02
a there's a Samoan chap who um a woman is desperately trying to find. It's her
01:11:09
father. Um she hasn't basically seen him in his life in her life. And um ironically, her father
01:11:21
is his his her father's sister is a very good friend of mine, but which just
01:11:26
coincidental and uh I've been looking for him for you four or five years. No,
01:11:31
probably seven or eight years. And um you keep trying to think you you might get him, but he he's just gone. And as a
01:11:38
Samoan, he he's probably taken a new title or something like that. And they just vanish. And there are we found a
01:11:46
guy in um Darwin once. His his daughter was looking for him. He was a um uh he had gone to the Philippines, had a baby
01:11:55
and um and then he had vanished into um the middle of Australia and by a very fortuitous methods um which a policeman
01:12:08
helped us. We um found out he was living in some um uh sort of state assisted housing and we tracked him down and he
01:12:18
lived in a house which had no furniture, nothing. He was he was just hiding from
01:12:23
the world and she got to meet him once and that was it. Was that what she needed? Was that
01:12:33
enough for her to like to give her peace? Well, it gave her two answers. Once she knew who he was and the other
01:12:39
she knew that he didn't want to continue a relationship. So sometimes they don't
01:12:45
get they don't get happiness but they get an answer. And it's it's bloody sad, isn't it? Like um
01:12:53
there's uh I watched a bunch of episodes over the weekend knowing that you know
01:12:57
we were catching up today. Um there was a recent one the girl from um the girl from Funanui uh Lithuania Justina. Yeah.
01:13:05
So, so she was adopted to a family in Southland. Yes. And she now lives in Fonganoi. How How old is she? 22. 22.
01:13:14
Yeah. And you connected her with her um biological mom. So So she was taken off her biological mom at a young age
01:13:19
because due to her mom's alcohol alcoholism, spent time in an orphanage. There was um so many elements to this
01:13:26
this story which was which was sad. Like there was this um God I had tears streaming down my my cheeks when in
01:13:31
Lithuania um you were walking through the grounds of the orphanage and some of the old caregivers came out. God, I'm
01:13:37
getting emotional just thinking about it now. Like it was um just the the bond that she had. Then then she was
01:13:43
reconnected with her mom and her mom's in clearly in a different place now. And
01:13:46
that that bond the um you know nature versus nurture thing was so strong. Um so that was wonderful. And then it just
01:13:53
made me feel after the show finished just made me feel incredibly sad for the adoptive parents in Southland as well. I
01:14:00
know. Um, you know, they' done a wonderful thing taking Justina and and her sister in and
01:14:09
um and you know, as you say, nature and nurture and and uh Justina's nature wasn't the same as the people who were
01:14:18
nurturing her and being a bust up between them and um but you know, they done a wonderful job getting her to
01:14:27
where she was and uh now she's found and a mom. But then a sad thing is there she
01:14:33
wants to go back and spend time. But it just might be very hard for her ever to do that. Why is that? Well, one,
01:14:43
she has to earn the money and and get there and and two, if she gets there, you know, she has to have something
01:14:51
which she can do and and you know, it's just sometimes not as real. It's not as
01:14:57
simple as you hope it will be. Yeah. And yeah, this this Yeah, these these poor people in South Lindo, like uh you could
01:15:03
tell that you they've done everything they could and all they want is for her
01:15:05
to be happy. Yeah. Um yeah. Yeah. It's God, it's emotional stuff. How do how do
01:15:10
you hold it together? Have you just Are you Are you just a grizzly old journalist and you don't get
01:15:15
emotional about anything? No. No. But um that moment and um you talked about it uh at the orphanage, but that just
01:15:25
caught us all by surprise. We we we had filmed her a little bit just wandering the grounds and we were sort of uh
01:15:30
starting to get some cutaways as we call them and all of a sudden was this scream
01:15:36
and uh I had my my cell phone. I just jumped it out. Evas Bers who's the cameraman. He he was on the other side
01:15:44
of the park and he just spun around and started filming and it was you know and you're sort of filming and almost crying
01:15:49
as you're filming because you know um you just don't get moments like that.
01:15:56
Well, you you don't get moments like that. Most of them we've constructed,
01:16:00
but that one we had no control over. It just happened. Boom. And it was so tearful and so intense.
01:16:08
Yeah. And there was just so much beauty to that moment because when you hear the
01:16:12
word orphanage, they tend to get a bad rap. Like you think of kids being you mistreated or not well looked after.
01:16:19
It's an institution um at the end of the day. But um just to see the love and the
01:16:23
bond um that this girl Justina had, you know, with with these women that she hadn't seen for like a decade or longer,
01:16:29
it was really powerful. And them, they were all in tears, too, meeting her, you know, and they couldn't even speak the
01:16:37
same language anymore. Yeah. So, so who's who's over there with you on these trips? Who's there? you and
01:16:45
on that that trip it's myself and my cameraman and and very fortunately my partner Clarinda came on that trip. It's
01:16:52
the first time she had gone on a trip and uh so normally it's just two of us.
01:16:59
It's a small operation, isn't it? It's when you compare it to like a I don't
01:17:03
know a Celebrity Treasure Island or something. It's an oily rag operation. You're punching well above your weight.
01:17:08
Oh yeah. Um but I keep it small. I mean, you know, other productions turn up with
01:17:13
three or four people and I just find that it loses the connection with the people you're traveling with. I mean,
01:17:19
like when there was two of us go and we take, you know, the person who's seeking
01:17:24
their family, we're a little team of three, you know, and we go out to dinner together and we
01:17:32
do it. But if you get into a group of four production people, all of a sudden the, you know, the bond disappears. And
01:17:40
also when you go to people's homes, I mean, I I wouldn't want, you know, four
01:17:45
people tramping into my home to film a TV program, but two people, especially two old people, it's not not so bad.
01:17:54
We're not Oh, okay. So, if you have less equipment like the the big less big
01:17:58
lights and intimidating cameras. Yeah. Okay. And it just makes people much more relaxed and and it's um and it's great.
01:18:06
Yeah. Yeah. and and behind the scenes, what's your involvement um like with the
01:18:10
seeker, the person that's seeking their family? Are you like a a counselor and
01:18:14
support person or do you do you try and keep a sort of degree of separation or No.
01:18:22
Um we're especially in a case like Justina's and um I don't know if you saw
01:18:28
the episode last night um guy we took to um uh Greece. I mean, you you really try
01:18:35
and look after them. I mean, not you know, you're taking them on a very emotional journey and you can't take
01:18:44
them there and leave them on their own. You have to be you have to try and keep a bond with them and and make sure
01:18:51
they're okay and and you know, talk to them about what's happening. And um you
01:18:57
know you you just can't make it take people on their own and and abandon them
01:19:04
and emotionally when they're there. So yeah and that's the good thing about the
01:19:09
people who work on the program. Everyone is of the same mindset. You know we try
01:19:14
and look after the people we we're taking on that journey and also the people we find. You know what does the
01:19:21
reunion day look like? Is it a long day? No, it's it's chaotic and and fast
01:19:27
because um you know it's um you probably know the formula. I I sort of say your family's up there and they walk
01:19:38
up. It's always a long way away, too. Like your family's like 400 meters over
01:19:43
there. Why is it such a long distance? Did you get all the shots you need? Yes. Well, bas basically to um because we're
01:19:51
trying to film um the people watching and the people coming there. So I often wave goodbye to the person and then I
01:20:01
run around the corner and and get the iPhone up and and try and film the people waiting. So you get their
01:20:07
reaction and you need to give give a bit of time and it just gives um more opportunity for you know a little bit
01:20:15
more emotion and and then when that happens it's it's sort of chaos with the actual reunion
01:20:24
and then you know we've try and very quickly refilm parts just because we can't get all the angles but you know um
01:20:33
they normally are slightly wider shots so or or or over the shoulder shot. So, it just gives us editing points. Yeah.
01:20:40
But cuz the the the moment itself, it has to be a one take wonder, doesn't it?
01:20:44
The main moment is a one take wonder. Yeah. Has the cameraman ever cocked it up?
01:20:50
Oh, well, the batteries run out or something's not quite as bad as that, but one one
01:20:56
one cameraman, Graeme Richie, um we were had two twins walking to meet their dad
01:21:03
and one of them bolted just went round Graham and up and Graham's running down the wolf trying to
01:21:12
catch up. Um, what's been your biggest lesson about humans? And, you know, I guess
01:21:19
like nurture versus nature and all that stuff. Two big lessons. Um, nature and nurture.
01:21:24
I'm I'm just staggered at nature. I mean, how much nature plays a big part.
01:21:30
I mean, you know, I've seen people walk up and meet each other and, you know,
01:21:35
they'll do a very unusual body movement like um you won't see it on podcast, but
01:21:42
someone goes like that and and two people went like that, you know, dad and daughter, and that's not natural, but
01:21:51
they just did it and they've never never met each other. M but personalitywise um
01:21:56
you know so many people talk about um they've met someone and and I say well
01:22:02
what are they like and it says it's like we've always known them they've just
01:22:06
walked back in the door been away for a while very very similar and the other big thing I I suppose I've learned is
01:22:13
that inherently everyone is good you know gang members come up to us and and tell
01:22:21
me their story and I've had um done big stories with both fairly high pro people
01:22:29
who've been fairly high up and done some sometimes quite bad crimes and both both
01:22:36
black power and mongrel mob but I haven't really dealt with some of the other gangs but not not because we we
01:22:43
haven't they just haven't appeared but I've had a a black power senior black
01:22:49
power guy balling his eyes out at his father's grave gave over a story which
01:22:54
we were doing. I had a mongrel mob guy shedding tears all over the place. You know, he had done six years in prison
01:23:01
comes out find we found his father and he's just balling because that's what
01:23:05
he'd wanted all his life. So, you know, even those guys were they might be doing
01:23:11
bad, but there's still that absolute longing for family. Yeah. Michelle Obama's got a quote that I really like.
01:23:18
It's um most people are hard not to like up close. Um, which is it's it's it's
01:23:24
really true. There's generally like a little bit of a little bit of good in everyone. What about you? Are you always
01:23:29
able to control the crying? What do you when you finish an emotional day of filming, do you you go back to your
01:23:35
hotel room and and cry or you are you quite sort of stoic? Um, as I say, I mean,
01:23:44
I the camera is always away from me in the big moment and because that's the
01:23:50
important moments happening with the other people. So, there are tears sometimes from me. But, um, to say I go
01:23:57
back to the room and cry, no, but I've rewatched programs I've done and I've
01:24:03
I've been in tears watching them because they're just so amazing. Well, so like
01:24:08
like like heaps of other New Zealand men, you're watching it on TV. Yeah. Seen the cut version. Yeah. Well, I you
01:24:15
know, like with some programs that you know, they'll come up and I'll watch
01:24:19
them four or five years later and you just sit there and watch it and think this is incredible. You know, not
01:24:25
because I did it, but what the event is all about. And it's it's just you sit
01:24:30
there and you cry, you know, because it is amazing television. And it's just,
01:24:35
you know, it's it's drama, but it's real. Oh, it's so powerful. Has the show
01:24:43
um taken a toll on you emotionally? No, I think it's um made me a better person in a way. Yeah. Um because you
01:24:53
you you I've always known I was privileged because of my upbringing and just, you
01:25:00
know, the fact that I had a good life. Um but when you realize how much better off you are than so many
01:25:07
people and um you just you know you just realize you got to be you know a bit more sensitive to people about a lot of
01:25:17
things the things I've gone through you know and you might think ah they're
01:25:22
terrible people but they've been through hell you know and uh you I was talking
01:25:27
to a woman yesterday and it's a story we may do but she's just, you know, telling
01:25:33
me her story of drugs, you know, um being sexually abused, all sorts of things. And uh you know, you just think
01:25:42
that's that's so terrible and how lucky we are that that was in our lives.
01:25:49
You can never tell what someone's been through just from um outward appearances. Do you think it's made you
01:25:54
like a more empatheticthetic person or you know better with like your your own personal relationships and vulnerability
01:26:00
and communication and things like that? Yeah. Well, the program's done that and
01:26:05
so is old age. Old age. You reckon? Yeah. I find um Yeah. I'm I'm definitely leaning into my
01:26:13
more emotional side as I I get older and I'm here for it. Yeah. Not mad about it
01:26:17
at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think so? That's come with aging. you've been
01:26:21
very very um public about your your your relationship that you're in at the moment. Um and some of the things I read
01:26:27
that you've said about your partner are just like wonderful and really open displays of affection. Yeah. Well, yeah,
01:26:33
I work on a program where I expect everyone else to, as I say, tell the truth and and it's just true. I mean,
01:26:40
yeah, I'm just, you know, very happy. I mean, my life is um just a very lucky one at the moment.
01:26:48
I mean, you know, I got a great job. I got a great partner and I'm healthy. So,
01:26:55
it's just so good. I mean, something to smile about, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely.
01:27:00
What's someone actually I've got these Instagram questions. Yeah. Someone
01:27:03
someone asked, um, does he smile in real life? You I've seen a lot of teeth today. You're you're a very happy guy.
01:27:10
Is it Is it almost like a character that you're portraying in the show in a in a
01:27:16
you know what I mean? Hey, you you don't really smile or laugh in the show, do
01:27:18
you? Is it just not the environment? Uh, just a little bit, but but I'm very much
01:27:23
my persona on TV is that I'm the conduit and I'm not the star. I mean, I don't
01:27:31
know if you've watched, there's a British program where a couple of people
01:27:34
are adopes and they do a very similar program and and they're there holding the person and gushing and saying, you
01:27:40
know, I'm crying with you and all this and I want the story to be about the people. I mean, there's a heck of a lot
01:27:48
of me in it, but it it's taking the telling the journey. It's not not about
01:27:53
my emotions or how I feel. Um though we do have you know comments about you know
01:28:00
I'm worried this is going to happen and things like that but this the program is
01:28:04
about those people. Someone wants to know if you've kept in touch with any of
01:28:09
the people from the show a heck of a lot. I mean it's it's hard to keep up with them all but I mean you
01:28:18
know yeah I mean lots and lots of them you know lots of them are on my Facebook page. Um people ring me up every now and
01:28:26
again out of the blue and just have a chat. I mean it's great and you know it's a bond you create isn't it? Well
01:28:34
you've gone through a pretty amazing event with some of the people you know you know and um you know so much about
01:28:42
their lives that you know it's hard to just walk away and say they don't exist
01:28:47
anymore. Yeah. Now to the airports question. So many people would are curious about
01:28:53
the air points. So you must be um you must be on elite. Yes. How many banked years have you got?
01:29:00
I don't know. Enough to last you the rest of your life. No, it's only five or
01:29:03
six or something like that. Wow. But uh yeah, but but yeah, I don't sit in the
01:29:09
front of the plane. You don't fly business? No. [ __ ] Why not? Well, it's a New Zealand government funded
01:29:16
program. I mean, you can't go and spend a fortune there. Yeah, but you're you're
01:29:20
a man in your 70s. You've you've done very well for yourself. You've devoted
01:29:24
your life to this career. Um like pre this TV series, it's like yeah, like a
01:29:30
30-year journalistic apprenticeship that got you to this point. I think you've
01:29:33
earned the right. I thought the come up to work and do my negotiations for Well, the show we were
01:29:41
talking about before with um Justina in Lithuania, like you you flew separately and I thought I thought I know what Lis
01:29:47
is doing here. Um, she's flying economy, so he's flying separately so he can go
01:29:51
in his 1A seat. Yeah. Why did we fly separate? Oh, we flew separately. Some ground work, I think, in advance. Oh, we
01:29:58
sort of were, but but also um because we were doing a a big round the world trip.
01:30:04
We we were on a round the world fair. And so we were flying Star Alliance, but with Justina and the quickest way was uh
01:30:12
on um a direct route, but also but we we always land two to three days before the people who are coming because
01:30:22
we've got to go and do the work. Some days it's sometimes it's four or five
01:30:27
days because we've got research to do on the ground. Yeah. You're using your
01:30:32
points to upgrade to premium economy though, aren't you? Sorry, I'm still
01:30:35
fixated on the seat. Oh, no, no. I I do have a a little bit of upgrade. I I normally try and get premium economy.
01:30:43
Yeah. And and then I try and use my point my um upgrades, but in New Zealand's a swine because they have
01:30:51
these you get two upgrades a year and you keep them for what you think's a long flight and then you you apply for
01:30:57
them on the long flight and they're full and all of a sudden you lose your upgrade because they don't they don't
01:31:04
carry over to the next year. It's a scam, isn't it? It's a scam. I haven't done much travel the last couple
01:31:12
of years. I've just um I I went from elite to gold and then down to silver. Silver you get nothing. I can't even get
01:31:17
to the lounge anymore. It's terrible. Um you must be a very good packer when you travel. Like um you
01:31:25
you generally do um the show in black. Yeah. Do you do you just have carry-on or do you have chicken luggage? Oh, no.
01:31:31
I have um chicken, but yeah. Um, the blacks are just for continuity of, you know, if you got a red shirt on
01:31:40
one day and a blue shirt the next and and you you think I want to use a bit of that red shirt day on the other day and
01:31:47
you can't because you're in different clothes. Yeah. Oh, that makes sense.
01:31:50
Yeah. Um, someone wants to know, "How do I help my mom find her father with no
01:31:56
information on him?" Yeah. What's the minimum information someone needs to
01:32:00
track down a um well no information it's a it's a DNA test. There's nothing else really you
01:32:08
can do. Um but one of the big things is getting getting your facts right, you know. Um we get so many people who apply
01:32:16
and they misspell names. They don't um they haven't done the basics. They they
01:32:22
don't you know tell us how old the person was, where it happened. I mean, it's getting all all the actual details
01:32:30
correct and and then it becomes easier and and if it's a New Zealand thing, the
01:32:36
thing normally is to go backwards or sideways um you know to try and find someone. So if you're trying to
01:32:44
find say an uncle, you go sideways and you find out you know um he might have had sisters or something like that. you
01:32:53
try and find them or you find someone who might have known him or go backwards and try and find out who the
01:32:59
parents grandparents were and work work that way. So, you know, it's not going
01:33:05
straight at them. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Is there a story that still sits in the back of your mind that you weren't able
01:33:11
to solve? Well, as as I say, the one about the Simone chap, I'd love to solve that one.
01:33:18
Um, there's lots of them. I mean, there's a um just trying to think which one's a
01:33:24
good example, but yeah, like um Justina's one, which I put off for basically 5 years because I said
01:33:34
she was too young when she was 17. Um trying to find her mom was great because it it
01:33:41
just she was a little nagger. She she'd ring up and I'd ring her, you know, for
01:33:46
for five years we'd keep kept in contact. And then finally I thought, right, you're old enough now. I'll give
01:33:51
it a crack. [ __ ] that's powerful. E, like you don't see something like that on TV, but like
01:33:58
you've had a real significant um impact in her life and made a real difference
01:34:02
to her life. I hope so. Yeah. I hope it it does her good. And um yeah, what's
01:34:09
given her some answers and Yeah. Yeah. Um, and she still has really good contact with the mom, even though they
01:34:16
can't speak the language, but Google Google Translate does a lot. Um, what's the bleakest slashcariest
01:34:24
place he's traveled to? You're not really going to scary places, are you?
01:34:31
Oh, well, depends what you call scary. Like, like I've just been in South Africa and um yeah, people say don't go
01:34:39
into a squatter village. Well, we went for a walk around the squatter village. You
01:34:44
know, most people, as I say, are good. I mean, there's probably some bad people
01:34:49
in that squatter village, but most people were good. And, you know, you just got to be careful walking around
01:34:55
there. Not because you're worried about danger, but but being just that terrible
01:35:01
white voyeristic tourist, you know. Um um scary places. Um I I don't know if
01:35:09
there are places which are meant to be scary and and they probably are but um you know like I went to Sierra Leone
01:35:17
which actually turned out to be an amazing place. Um uh where else? Trying to think. Um in
01:35:26
this series we went to um Honduras and and you know we're talking in the street and the
01:35:33
guy says don't go up there. You people with guns up there and that sort of thing but
01:35:39
um but absolutely scared? Probably not. I mean, um, no, it's like you can, I
01:35:47
mean, even here in Oakuckland, you can find trouble if you're looking for it.
01:35:50
Yes. And you can generally a avoid trouble and keep yourself safe in most situations, can't you? Yeah. Absolutely.
01:35:56
Do you do you run when you travel? You go to these places and you always. Yeah. It's just a magic way of um, you know,
01:36:02
when I arrive to go and scout the city. You know, you go for a run and you can find out, well, one, where's a good
01:36:10
restaurant around the corner? Yeah. Is there a good park? You know, normally I look up and maps and see where where are
01:36:16
good locations we might film and then I'll go for a run and take them in and
01:36:21
uh as I say it just freeze you freeze the mind. So yeah. Yeah. Well, your best way to shake off a bit of jet lag as
01:36:28
well. Yeah. Oh yeah. I I agree wholeheartedly. Best way to explore a new city. Um yeah. How's your how's your
01:36:33
body? Are your joints okay? Is everything your knees okay? Your hips okay? so far.
01:36:40
Um, has he ever thought about expanding and investigating other stuff? Well, just a question from Instagram.
01:36:48
Yes. Yes and no. I mean, that was sort of my career before I started this, you know, um, as a journalist. Yeah. Um,
01:36:57
yeah, I think that'll do from Instagram. There so many about the air points.
01:37:01
There's so much curiosity about that. Yeah. Um, do you want to do some We'll end up
01:37:11
with some personal questions. Eh, some more personal questions. Oh, I thought we'd done those. Yeah, but go ahead. Oh,
01:37:17
no. No, there's more. So, um, yes, you're in your early 70s now. Um, biggest adversity you've been through in
01:37:22
your life, you reckon? Would it be the helicopter crash? No one gets to the luxurious position of
01:37:28
being, I'd say my age, but even you've got a couple of decades on me without
01:37:32
going through some sort of crunchy stuff. Well, the helicopter crash in in a um one sense, but you know, um
01:37:43
relationship things, even if it's a good thing you get out of them, they're still difficult
01:37:50
to go through. Yeah, I'd agree. It's sad, eh? and it never gets any easier. Would you
01:37:57
get will you get married again? Have you had this discussion? No, we we haven't. But um and it's a funny thing.
01:38:05
I I I don't um hanging anything too much on on marriage anymore. I mean, you
01:38:13
know, you know, a relation a relationship is really good. You just know it. And and I don't know if I need
01:38:21
a tag on it. Yeah. Yeah. Your partner, she's been married previously. Yes. Yes. But she'd been
01:38:28
separated for quite a few years. Yeah. What would you say your best and worst habits are?
01:38:37
[Laughter] Good [Laughter] gracious. Worst habit probably talking too much. Oh, which it's very good for a
01:38:49
thing like a podcast. Um, and uh, best have it. I don't know. Hopefully I'm being nice to people, but
01:38:58
you know, I bark at a few people a few times. So, yeah. Yeah. Have you Have you gotten
01:39:04
softer around the edges as you get older? I think we all do. E. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
01:39:10
Um you know you become more tolerant of some things but you get more annoyed at some other things which you know
01:39:22
just you know everyone talks about the the um what do you call it the u entitled
01:39:30
people the sense of entitlement these days and and you know the idea you know my politics are very left it and
01:39:40
um I get intolerant of of the very right, you know, and um you know, to heck with everyone else, they
01:39:50
haven't earned their money, you know. I do find that very sad. Yeah. I read in a couple of interviews
01:39:56
you you talked um about politics. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Why do you worry so much about something that
01:40:03
you can't control? Do you know what I mean? Well, if we all didn't worry about
01:40:07
it, you get Donald Trump. Yeah. The American people, it's like you've got what you what you wanted.
01:40:15
This is what you voted in. Yeah. Yeah. Um, is there a what if that keeps you up at night? What if?
01:40:23
Um, well, there's always what ifs. I mean, you But I laugh and I think, what what
01:40:30
if I'd met Clarinda, you know, when I was 20? But then again, I showed her a photo the
01:40:36
other day when I was 30 and she says, "Oh, God." So maybe we we would never
01:40:41
have got on then. Oh, were you sort of thinking that like she could have been your life partner? So in a sense, you're
01:40:46
sort of kicking yourself that you didn't meet her until your mid-60s. Well, no.
01:40:50
I'm I'm thinking what if if I had, but then you think, no, the person I was
01:40:56
when I was 20 is a totally different person to who I am now. you know and so what ifs um don't really count because
01:41:04
if you know you know what if I you know stayed at university and become you know
01:41:10
got a you know decided to be a lawyer you know what a what a terrible life that would have been. Yeah. Yeah. And um
01:41:19
you're back to your partner. I mean everything's a right place right time
01:41:22
sort of thing isn't it? Yes. Um when was the last time you cried? um probably about um two or three days
01:41:34
ago when I watched um one of the episodes we're doing and I just thought that that's pretty magic.
01:41:41
And uh and possibly when the Blues lost to the Crusaders. Oh, hell of a game though, wasn't it? My
01:41:48
god, that James iconic kick right on right on the full time. You know, the Blues Blues were 20 points better than
01:41:56
them, but I lost. Oh, if you're that much into the Blues, you must be used to
01:42:00
losing by now, right? Yeah. I don't have a good track record. I I like the Highlanders, the Blues, and
01:42:06
the Endure. Um, what are you most afraid of? Aging, but not really afraid of it. It
01:42:15
it it's not aging you afraid of it. It's um not being able to do things. What
01:42:24
What can't you do? Well, at the moment, nothing. That's That's what I love about
01:42:28
being fit and healthy and running. It means, you know, if I want to go for a pedal over to Rangoto, I can get in a
01:42:34
kayak and pedal over there. If I want to go for a swim, I can. And but, you know,
01:42:39
I've just been I'm editing a story at the moment where where a lady's in a
01:42:44
wheelchair. And I just think how how horrible would that be? But I I know you'd adjust and everything else, but
01:42:51
you know, I prefer I didn't end up like that. Yeah. You you've got great health
01:42:56
on your side, don't you? Is is is it good um genetics in your family or is this just through like hard work? Um no,
01:43:04
not no super genetics. It's Yeah, but yeah, I'm just very lucky. I I decided
01:43:11
to run and swim and I've always just kept doing it and you know as you know, it's it's invigorating and
01:43:19
makes you feel alive. I mean, you know, go out in the bush and run for a couple of hours. It's it's just incredible.
01:43:25
Yeah. Oh. Oh, no. It's it's wonderful. And the mental health side of things,
01:43:29
it's not something that I ever really thought of when I started running, but
01:43:32
um yeah, like with, you know, it's become very clear to me now that um it's
01:43:38
probably more mental than physical. Like the the buzz you get out of it. Yeah. It's incredible. Eh, um do you have any
01:43:44
regrets? Not not not any super regrets. Nothing nothing major. I mean you you always
01:43:55
regret you know some decisions you made but but but that's life. Yeah. Yeah.
01:44:01
Nothing which I think oh god I wish I'd done that. Yeah. What a great way to be.
01:44:06
Biggest flaws. Oh gracious. I'm hating this. E I can tell. I didn't Yeah.
01:44:17
Um Yeah. I don't know. Lack of tolerance. Yeah. Yeah. But but I don't know if I
01:44:26
but yeah. What about um the future goals? Future goals. Well, just to keep healthy. Really? Keep healthy and um
01:44:36
happy. Yeah. What about legacy? How how would you um want to be remembered? Not just as like a storyteller, but as a as
01:44:44
a person as well. Oh goodness. Um I don't know. I just Well, hopefully just kindly. I mean, I
01:44:55
hope people don't, you know, say he was a grumpy old bastard or um you know, he was pretty useless at that. um
01:45:04
you know just that people do have a a relatively good memory of me rather than a a bad one. And three words that your
01:45:14
adult kids would use to describe you depends what mood they're in. Oh, I know. Well, hopefully
01:45:30
um decent caring and um nice, but I don't know. I mean, you know, but I I don't know. Oh, they're
01:45:40
great words. You have to text them and ask them to see if they match up. Let me know. Um and last one, David LMA. So,
01:45:47
you're proud of yourself. Um yeah, I suppose so. I mean, you know, that's such a funny answer. You know,
01:45:58
um, Michael Galvin, Chris Warner on Shortland Street. Yeah. I had him on the podcast. Um, and I asked him that
01:46:03
question and he was like, "Well, I'm not ashamed of myself." Yeah. It's a It's a
01:46:09
strange one for I think men in particular of a certain age to answer because proud is sort of like it's your
01:46:15
ego. Um, you know, am I pleased with what who I've become at the moment? I think I am. Yeah. But to say proud, that
01:46:26
sort of, you know, takes you sort of praising yourself in a way, you know. Yeah. But you you look back on your life
01:46:34
and career, it's it's it's been pretty bloody awesome, right? As I say, I've
01:46:38
had a hell of a lucky life. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's just, you know, so many great jobs, so many great
01:46:46
opportunities, so many great trips, you know, it's and um, you know, and lots of
01:46:51
good people in it. But you're old enough to know that you you sort of create your
01:46:55
own luck to a degree. Well, that's what I say about um, working journalism and
01:47:00
that, you do create your own luck. I mean, you know, when you're doing stories, hard
01:47:07
work, when you solve something, it hopefully it's through hard work, not just luck. Yeah. And and the luck is
01:47:15
from hard work. Hey, this has been really enjoyable today. You got a hell of an edit to do.
01:47:25
Really? Oh, I I tend to I I um when I go to edit, I hate the sound of my own voice and I I find out I find what I
01:47:33
edit is generally the times I've said um or where I've said dumb things and I get
01:47:38
to the end of the edit and I'm full of self-loathing. So, I've stopped the
01:47:40
editing. I give every single guest the um the right to remove anything they want taken out, but otherwise I don't
01:47:46
really I don't really bother with it. Um well, what do you want edited out? Anything? Uh I mean, you stand by what
01:47:54
you say. I don't really care. I mean, in in that sense, it's nothing. Hopefully,
01:48:00
I've never said hopefully I haven't said anything which is bad. And um yeah, and
01:48:06
hopefully I haven't said anything that's stupid. No, you left that to me. Um
01:48:11
well, this has been wonderful. I've really enjoyed it. Um this is the first time we've we've met and um yeah, next
01:48:17
time I see you in New World, I'll definitely say good day. Oh, that's great. What What about you? Has this put
01:48:22
you off podcast for life or have you has it been a cathartic experience, an enjoyable experience? Well, it was
01:48:28
interesting because, you know, when I was asked to do this and I sat down, I thought, what the hell is he going to
01:48:33
ask? Because, you know, it it it's interesting being on the other side of an interview because, you know, um,
01:48:41
but most people, you're going to do an interview and you've got a specific
01:48:45
topic you're going to talk to them about. But when it's just, you know, life, you can't plan and and you're
01:48:53
sitting there and thinking, "Oh, my memory, you know, if you ask me about that, I God knows if I can remember
01:48:58
that, you know." Um because, yeah, it's hard to there's nothing you can prep for
01:49:04
on this sort of thing. Yeah. Well, from my perspective, um having done over 200 of these, I've enjoyed this immensely
01:49:11
and it's been wonderful to connect with you today and I can't thank you enough
01:49:13
for your time. I've heard you say that to everyone. I don't think I Well, I I I I genuinely
01:49:21
do mean that like if you know if if someone's going to come and give me like
01:49:24
a couple of hours of their time, which this has been today, um I'm definitely
01:49:28
going to go out of my way to do as much research and preparation as I can um out
01:49:32
of respect. Um yeah, and I I I genuinely do do mean that. That's um it's very
01:49:38
earnest. Yeah. Oh, that's great. David Lus, cheers. Thank you so much.