00:00:00
I was a different person
00:00:01
when I got out to what I was when I went
00:00:03
in because I I was fully criminalized. I
00:00:06
was fully criminalized when I got out. I
00:00:09
was fully committed to the criminal
00:00:11
ethic to the point that I hated cops.
00:00:15
Mhm. I hated cops. I hated uniforms. I
00:00:18
hated bus conductors. I hated anyone
00:00:20
wearing a uniform. It was It was sort of
00:00:23
drilled into us in jail
00:00:25
by the inmate social code that the worst
00:00:28
filthiest thing you could ever be called
00:00:30
is to be called a policeman. That they
00:00:32
were They were the scum of the earth.
00:00:33
Mhm.
00:00:34
You know, and um and I I had a real chip
00:00:37
on my shoulder when I got out uh
00:00:40
in that sense. Mhm. But when I started
00:00:43
writing my PhD
00:00:45
working on my PhD and I started
00:00:46
interviewing
00:00:48
prison officers
00:00:50
uh because I it was on the history of
00:00:51
the maximum security prison. So, I was
00:00:53
interviewing prison officers who'd been
00:00:55
prison officers in the '50s and
00:00:57
'40s. It It was from in the post-war
00:00:59
period with focused on.
00:01:01
Um I got to talk to a lot of guys. I
00:01:04
realized that you know
00:01:06
you build up this image of this evil
00:01:08
person.
00:01:09
It's like you You'd be the same if you
00:01:12
were a terrorist, really. I suppose the
00:01:13
IRA
00:01:14
had that mentality as well. You develop
00:01:17
it. And and coppers have the same
00:01:19
mentality about criminals. You see, it's
00:01:21
them and us.
00:01:23
Um and then I realized, well, you know,
00:01:25
they're just actually human beings like
00:01:26
us and Doing a job. And doing their jobs
00:01:29
and And and and And then I got to know
00:01:32
quite a few cops through running
00:01:34
marathons cuz there's quite a few cops
00:01:35
running marathons.
00:01:37
Oh, they're not bad blokes after all,
00:01:38
you know. And and and Now, of course, I
00:01:42
I get on really well with police and
00:01:44
>> [snorts]
00:01:44
>> And um and you know, Greg O'Connor
00:01:47
became a friend of mine. We became
00:01:48
friends and
00:01:50
So, I changed as well when I got out.
