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okay Runners only with dime Runners only with dom Harvey and Sam Harvey sorry you
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were just talking over the intro what's up what we saying oh sorry Brad hey no you're the you're the guest what
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were you gamering on about I had my earplugs and I couldn't even hear you oh
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no no stress I was just yeah same Harvey uh no relation the Harvey side of my family is very
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small so a couple of people even messaged me saying are you guys related not a chance I don't think
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um but this man is an absolute Savage recently tied the world record for a more or less continuous
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677 kilometer run in Australia um mate it's great to have you here I've heard you do so many interviews and uh
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the the host usually starts the same way by calling you like me until calling you
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a Madman calling you Bonkers something like that which how um how do you feel about that it feels like it's a it's a
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bit of a cop-out bit of an easy intro I can think of many other words for you I mean yeah I guess I'm a little bit
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twisted but uh yeah I I don't know I don't think I'm really mad I'm just yeah I'm I'm digging
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deep and I'm going after something and I guess yeah maybe maybe that's perceived
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as a level of Madness and on the comparison of someone else's normal spectrum of
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existence versus what what I'm up to so yeah I'm just I'm just getting after something and yeah
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that might seem a bit strange to to a few people that haven't done anything at
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this scale which is most of us 99.999 but words I would go with would probably be things like
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um oh I don't know like uh um disciplined courageous calculating meticulous I mean you the the [ __ ] you do you look
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like the sort of guy that would wing it but you're not a guy that's winging it
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there's a lot of calculation that goes into what you do there has to be yeah I
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mean like there's there's definitely been like a lot of winging it in the past and the winging it has got
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me to where I am and yeah I guess I am able to both operate with with planning but then when [ __ ] goes awry uh
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make it up on the spot and get things done uh like in my early years of racing I kind of had this like little internal
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personal brand and I called it skin of your teeth racing it was like it's the way sort of winging it oh
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totally winging it like like when I was racing in Ireland I'd like I'd finish
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driving the tractor and then I'd be like oh I've got like an hour and a half to
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get into Dublin and like and then like get to this race and I'd like I'd like Sprint or bike like into the
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nearest Village and then like maybe catch a bus and then that bus would be running behind and then I would like get
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off early and I'd like run across a free like a full-on Motorway dodgy sketchy [ __ ] that's highly illegal
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uh climb up this Cliff phase jump jump this like or climb over this nine foot fence into this car park and then that
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allowed me onto a train or like get to get to a taxi and then like like literally there was a couple races I'd
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like get there and people were like on on the start line and I'd like I'm not even sure they'd be like yeah
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you can pay afterwards they'd give me a number I'd flick that number on they'd
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be like lining up and I'd be like haven't finally having to take a leak on
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the start line and they're like three two and they know that they know that I'm here everybody's laughing and then
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we go and I get off and and get on the start line and we run and I like managed to get like first or second and or at
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least a podium in that race and I'm like yeah just scrape by and they don't know
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that like the two hour ordeal just like getting to that start line see the warm-up the warm-up unlike anyone else's
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so how long ago was this I think this sets the since the sets the tone nicely for the beginning of the podcast yeah
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definitely ah so I was in Ireland and 2017 17. okay and so just doing like uh yeah a bit of a bit of farm work and
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building and uh what else was I doing uh and then obviously like doing a few running races and
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uh a bit of boxing and just kind of yeah living my life yeah oh that's awesome
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um we should probably start by explaining the concept of lapse racing um because
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I mean there's a lot of people that'll be listening listening to this that are
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that are that are fans of yours that know what you've done and are familiar with the concept but I think most normal
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new zealanders would have no clue what it means so for sure how would you explain it yeah so um I guess the sport
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that I've kind of really come into my own in the last couple of years I've obviously been
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running ultra marathon which is really really long format racing but uh so like hundreds of kilometers and then the
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backyard Ultra format which I've kind of really been giving some steam recently
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it's basically a last person standing format where you run a 6.7 kilometer Loop
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and that's 6.7 kilometer Loop might be set over can be set up over any terrain
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it might be flat it might be hilly it might be grassy it might be rugged whatever but basically everybody lines
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up on the start line at the start of each hour and you have 60 Minutes to complete that 6.7 kilometer Loop or
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4.1667 miles and yeah if you if you finish it fast then you then you get a bit of a rest maybe
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like if you finish it in 40 minutes then you get a 20 minute rest and you can eat
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and drink and uh do do what you need to do or if you do it slow and you're coming in 59
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minutes then basically you've you've got to go out on straight straight away you
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get no rest time and so it's a bit of a balancing act but basically the way it
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works is you lap that 6.7 kilometer Loop hour after hour if you take longer than the hour then
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you get kicked out if you can't start a lope then then you get kicked out and it
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continues until there's at least at least two people left in the race and as soon as that second to last person
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drops off then then that's the last person standing and they have to do one one more Loop to
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basically secure it and they can't continue looping after that so basically it's the it's the winner
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there's only one finisher in these races and then there's the assist and the
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assist helps the winner to get however far they may get before before they give up yeah and this is where you
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um tied the world record recently like a few matter of a few weeks in Australia and we're going to dive deep into that
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race because it's a the race itself is probably worthy of being a movie with
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the final three competitors yeah there's like there's so many layers to it
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um first of all I want to say let the the thing about the slaps racing like to me is that it feels
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from an outsider's perspective it looks tantalizingly easy do you know what I
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mean anyone can anyone that's done a bit of running can run 6.7 case anyone who
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hasn't done a bit of running can run 6.7 K's in an hour and then you think I can
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have it I could probably just about briskly walk it I could have a break do it again but then like from my
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perspective as someone that does like a you know 10K here 20K here you get to 10
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hours you you bought mentally you're bored you've also tired because you've
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done 67 in case at that point and you give up but you just [ __ ] don't yeah
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well I think you I think you touched on it um briefly before saying like it is easy and like this
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format of racing it's easy until it's not and that's the thing it's the intellect
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not I suppose that varies from person to person and I mean at the end of the day the the
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farthest distance you've run is the farthest distance you've run like the
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longest you've gone might be 20K so to to up that by a couple of K's then
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that's that's a win yeah uh is it your full capacity maybe not because in your head like that's that's
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your upper limit I'm just kind of going to find wherever the limit actually is
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physically uh and break down all of those mental barriers because yeah I've definitely
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like come to a point and I'm like oh 300 miles like there was at at the Australian race
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a couple weeks ago like I hit the 300 mile Mark and that was like emotional I didn't expect 200 miles that's like
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500ks and then you end up running a total of 677. yeah so when you get to 300 miles
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um we can work in whatever format you want here um when you've got 300 miles like you
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you I mean for a lot of people you could be like okay that's an epic Milestone
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I'm gonna I'm gonna wind down now yeah I'm not going to win but it's amazing
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for me but you just kept on [ __ ] going yeah so I don't look at it in milestones and a lot of people do like a
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lot of people a lot of people say oh I want to get to the 24-hour Mark which is 100 miles or
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160 kilometers or I want to get uh the the 40 hour mark or the 50 hour mark honestly I just kind of dissociate all
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together I don't count hours I don't count kilometers I I just like I'm just there to run I run and I do a
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loop and I just complete a loop and I just focus on the task at hand and don't
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kind of let it let the grand scheme of of things affect me too much and I think that's what misses a lot of
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people up is they're looking to like their sitting targets and then they hit them and they're like oh
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what do I do now I've now got to set a new Target your Target's just to be the
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last man standing yeah my Target's just a win yeah yeah okay um how much of how much of this is
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physical and how much is mental obviously physical fitness is huge like not anyone can go out and you know clock
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up a 677 K's in four days for sure um I mean obviously very physical like extremely physically demanding I
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guess I've removed the the physical element of it to a degree because I've I've trained
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so hard for it and I know my body and I know my capabilities basically I can go into one of these things knowing that
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like my body's going to perform like I'm at the upper tier of of people who have prepared their body
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for any any kind of running event I'm on I might not be the fastest but I've definitely put in uh the top tier
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level of miles and so I know my legs and my body they're all going to do the job
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and I can just focus on the task at hand uh the big thing being you've just gotta
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you've got to beat yourself or beat beat your mental limit so yeah it does it does come down to that to that mental
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strength in the end if you have to put a percentage on each what would it be it can't be 50 58 it's going to be I would
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have thought having never done one myself just sitting here in this beautiful plush armchair 80 20 80 mental
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yeah yeah and and I mean a lot of people say it's in the reverse of like running
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it's 80 physicality like you you need to have you need to have that body there
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and then 20 of it's mental but yeah I would say the the opposite uh I mean once you once you've prepared the body
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then it's only 20 like making sure everything's right and then 80 of it is
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just getting getting your head yeah getting your head straight and how how do you prepare the body like what is a
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what does a heavy training week look like for you about 160 to 180 K of running a week and then oh yeah that's
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not excessive yeah and then two or three strength sessions which might be like I
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don't know half an hour in the gym doing like heavy weights right right so so
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160s 160 K's a week how much of that is like what sort of training is that like is it
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speed work long slow runs no so it'll be polarized training so a bid turn yeah
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most most most of that volume will be slow easy Zone one zone two running and then
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a very small amount of it maybe like two yeah one or two sessions a week would be
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that faster training uh so doing hill Sprints or or the like or or a tempo run and do you do any training for the sleep
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deprivation well I I would have thought you were training May and tail like having a Friday and Saturday where you
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you do laps for 24 hours or something like that yeah I mean I think life prepares you for these
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races like like not me I love my sleep I can sleep deprivation is one of the worst things
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man yeah I'm horrible I mean less so from the sleep deprivation the sleep deprivation you probably get more used
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to having done a few of these races and I've done oh it's at least half a dozen of these
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things now so like I have I have run through the night on him like every single one of these races I've done 200
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plus kilometers so I've gone through the night and even into the second night on at least most
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of them and so got it got it got a bit used to it and honestly the the world record
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having gone through four nights that was just adapting on the go that and that's
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probably something that I have a strength in there's you're presented with a problem and you
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find a way of fixing it at the moment but that's um yeah you make it sound very simple and very easy but when sleep
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deprivation kicks in your rational mind often sort of shuts down totally yeah yeah
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um that's when you start to make your reasoning with yourself or negotiating
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with yourself or yeah well that's a decision state after a good sleep you're
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going to regret yeah well totally I mean at the end of the day I can be very mechanical and just like kind of get get
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the job done which is what I was doing uh as you say like reasoning with yourself maybe not reasoning with myself
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but come the fifth day like the final day where it uh I stopped that was where people out like I was
00:14:08
taking reasoning from people that weren't me who let your support crew and yeah and basically saying like you're
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you're sick like you've got pneumonia like the the doctor wants to pull you
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from the race the race director wants to pull you from the race like you've got
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to stop and I was like no I'm here to break the world record and they're like
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well okay we're gonna let you break the world record or help to set the world
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record but once you've completed lap 101 the 101st hour the 677 kilometer you are to then pull out
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and I was like uh okay like I I reasoned with their voice of logic and I guess yeah that's what I've
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been kicking myself about I can tell by your demeanor you're dark about it yeah
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yeah well I mean like at the end of the day I was still I was still I was I was beat up but like anyone would be beat up
00:15:00
after they'd run nearly 700 kilometers 100 um yeah my lungs were a bit stuffed but
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at the end of the day like my heart my heart rate variation wasn't going crazy like I wasn't
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continuously collapsing what was showing signs that I was gonna die or anything continuously collapsing well like I did
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collapse at one time that's what set off the warning bells for everyone it was like around the 95th
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or 96th hour and and okay so see for me if my who's in your support crew by the way is it your wife
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no who have you uh no so for that one was uh mum dad uh a guy called Adam Keane who's a coach
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and he was on the team with me he'd run and then like once he'd stopped he'd uh
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he'd come in and crew for me Sean Collins he's he's another guy who was
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racing over there from the Kiwi team who once he stopped he he came in and and crewed for me and um yeah and then like
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various others so I had a bit of an expanded or extended support was he was it unanimous they were all like saying
00:16:10
listen Sam you gotta You Gotta Throw the towel in uh I think it was the the like
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the race director and his kind of circle had like kind of made that decision then
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I had like my team were like fighting on my behalf okay so there was a negotiating with the race director yeah
00:16:24
and then yeah I think the negotiation was like allow him to to get to the world record and then and but monitor
00:16:31
him to make sure like shit's not gonna go really awry and then um and then yeah basically
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cut them cut them from the race once once he's achieved what he what he came
00:16:42
here to do so do you feel a little bit um I don't know exploited as the word
00:16:47
but um like it's almost like they used you as bait for the adventure winner um
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I I wouldn't say that I mean both of us went there with the intention of of sitting the record
00:17:03
and I was going to feel like a failure if neither of us got there like if I had like Tapped Out on like 90 hours or 95
00:17:12
hours like come that close but yeah so short then that would have been a failure at least I got
00:17:20
to match the world record and then allow someone else yeah because because then I
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I carried him there like I could have yeah that's what I'm that's what I mean
00:17:29
so the race director's saying okay Sam you're very very sick you've got
00:17:32
pneumonia but we will let you run another few laps and that's it yeah yeah half
00:17:41
yeah I mean I don't know I I don't feel like I like I need to poke the beer any
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more than what it's been poked I'm just yeah I don't want to remind you yeah
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I've gotta I've got to be like kind on myself yeah there was a hell of a lot of
00:17:51
uh success within that race both spiritually mentally physically between myself and other Runners between me and
00:18:01
my crew like like that week was possibly the most spiritual and enlightening and wholesome
00:18:11
and rewarding week that I've had in my entire life so like yeah gotta kinda be
00:18:17
nice to myself because yeah if you if you compare it with what could have been then you take away from all the goodness
00:18:23
that came out of it and like what came out of that race was massive oh 100 and you know you tied the world record and
00:18:31
uh you you did it um not feeling 100 which is remarkable and it's exciting to
00:18:36
think what you can potentially achieve in the future oh absolutely I mean like uh old mate who took the took the win he
00:18:45
has had uh harder competition he's been exposed to harder competition in Australia just
00:18:52
because the Australians they they get a bit further in these races generally so he's been pushed into these like
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uh the I'm not sure if he's been pushed into the fourth day but he's definitely
00:19:01
been pushed into like the third day previously and so he's experienced the deep end a lot more
00:19:08
and had the ability to practice and and and improve his processes prior to this event I'd only ever done 46 hours
00:19:15
because because you're the last man standing because because I was when the race
00:19:20
finishes yeah well because I've essentially won everything in New Zealand and we haven't quite gone as far
00:19:26
and so this was essentially my first opportunity to race with some really Heavy Hitters and find out where my
00:19:35
limits are and so yeah I jumped from 46 hours all the way up to 101 hours and so I was in I was an
00:19:44
unknown territory for a long time for the second half of the of the event yeah more than the second half what so what
00:19:50
were you thinking so you've done 46 hours and you obviously um still knew you had way more beyond that
00:19:56
um but yeah what were you thinking and yeah like going into it in your in your heart 60 hours 70 hours no I was super
00:20:02
confident that I was going to break the world record if there was anyone there that was willing to to go that distance
00:20:08
with me so you thought you could double you you definitely thought you could double 46 hours without question
00:20:17
crazy it's a crazy thought and it just makes me want to like tap and even do a
00:20:21
do a biopsy into your brain and get a part of it out how you operate because there'd be like someone I don't know if
00:20:27
this is a this is a great comparison but it's like someone running their first
00:20:30
marathon doing five hours and then thinking okay well next time I'll do two and a half
00:20:36
that's [ __ ] crazy like to do 46 and then go into the next event with the confidence that you can double that it's
00:20:41
it's all the journalists say when they open the interviews yeah it's mad yeah I just
00:20:48
think I I know my body I know my brain and I know all the processes that I've
00:20:52
built over the last couple years and I'm very just I'm very confident that you
00:20:56
basically take take the system and then you just replicate it again and again and again hour after hour lap
00:21:02
after lap day after day nothing really changes so so you just you just continue on with
00:21:09
your systems you might need to fiddle things around a little bit maybe on the third or fourth day because there
00:21:16
are new factors in play like sleep deprivation so you end up wanting to sleep a bit more in the nights or even
00:21:21
during the day so so you make those changes but yeah at the end of the day honestly anyone can
00:21:28
run a 6.7 kilometer Loop in an hour and even on my hundred and hundredth hundred and first hour like I
00:21:35
was still still lapping and and in like 50 minutes or maybe even like a a 49 minute or something where
00:21:42
when I first started this racing a couple years ago like admittedly it was on a very hilly
00:21:47
hard course but like 52 minutes was my consistent Loop time so so you give an a minute break at the back yeah so like
00:21:55
and and I know that that is a is a big enough window to do absolutely everything and have a bit of a rest so
00:22:01
if I'm coming in anything faster than that then like I'm in good Nick and I
00:22:06
can I can go perpetually okay absolutely everything is and isn't what taking some
00:22:11
nutrition hydration yeah that's the one change your socks maybe or so yeah I
00:22:17
mean like hydration yes nutrition yes maybe a bit of a sleep uh change out any maybe wet sweaty gears for for dry
00:22:27
clothes and lists so on the sock slash shoe front I mean yeah there are other people that
00:22:35
are religious about that but honestly I it was the Sunday night so the sick going into the second night
00:22:44
and I did it I think I did a shoe change and I had seven pairs of shoes with me and by that point I only fit into one of
00:22:51
them because my feet are blown up so big and I was like oh well that means I can't do any more shoe
00:22:59
changes and I was like oh well that's that's fine like these shoes will do and
00:23:03
if I'm not going to take my shoes off then oh well I'll just stick with my
00:23:06
socks if I stuck with my socks then I'm not going to do any like blister popping
00:23:10
or foot management I was like sweet I was like what I've got on my feet is what I've got on my feet so from Sunday
00:23:15
night until Wednesday afternoon when the race finished I didn't take my shoes or
00:23:19
socks off it was just like if a blister opens up if I tear some flesh off I'm
00:23:24
just gonna I'm just gonna run through it and that's what I continue to do so yeah
00:23:27
my feet were super ugly and minced up afterwards however I just dealt with it I mean I basically figured provided like
00:23:34
I could still stand on my feet and and I mean they were painful but yeah either way they're going to be painful yeah
00:23:40
were you in physical pain yeah yeah absolutely I mean I had like achy knees achy achy joints achy hips achy bloody
00:23:49
everything a bit of full body pain and then my feet were were swollen mince meat at times I thought have I have I
00:23:58
got a stress fracture in one of my bone and one of my foot bones or Toes or or whatever and and then yeah
00:24:06
from from Sunday through to Wednesday like every okay every now and then like you'd occasionally feel like a blister
00:24:12
form and like a real bad one and it would burn like it'd be searing heat and
00:24:17
you'd be like oh and I'd do a bit of a scream and then be like oh well that
00:24:20
that'll probably go away in about an hour see I think this is what at least part
00:24:25
of what separates you from most of society uh you know pain is as your body sending you a message right there that
00:24:33
you need to you know stop or do something about it um so how do you just keep going through
00:24:37
it I guess I've it's not that I like pain it's that maybe I've just learned to
00:24:43
tolerate it a bit more than your average human and I guess I've normalized it it's like
00:24:49
like these things aren't comfortable and and you're going to be in a level of
00:24:54
pain but I mean what you're experiencing right now is finite like it has an end so deal with it
00:25:02
and in a day or in two days or in five days that's gonna be done and then you just sit down
00:25:08
and you can have a beer and you're gonna have Yarns and you can have stories and
00:25:13
you're gonna you're gonna appreciate it so just do the thing that you're hating
00:25:18
in the moment and then you'll love yourself a little bit more afterwards yeah I suppose it's like the um the the
00:25:23
well-used Mantra painters temporary glorious forever straight up I was I was yelling that to myself uh I'm not sure
00:25:31
if it was at the Australian race but it was it was at the one in Christchurch just gone which
00:25:37
was probably actually more of a struggle to be honest yeah so um so the Australian one and uh dead Cal Valley we
00:25:43
need to get into that race shortly we've been going for 26 minutes but you're so
00:25:46
fascinating um so you came back from that having um tied the world record of 677 K's then
00:25:52
you did another event like a week later two weeks later uh nine days nine days later
00:25:58
what'd you coach say um my my coach is on the special end of the spectrum I mean like he does it
00:26:09
definitely doesn't like advise this type is that is that Barry McGee yeah yeah
00:26:13
Barry McGee by the way um for anyone that doesn't he was one of the first guests on my podcast I think like
00:26:18
episode seven or episode eight oh wow um he won a bronze medal for the marathon at the 1960 Olympic Games in Rome the
00:26:25
last like 10 or 15 case were running like pitch dark yeah um so they were like Ticky torches on the side of the
00:26:30
road to guide the way and he had no idea when he finished that he'd won a medal
00:26:33
but he was coached by um Arthur lydiard and he's sort of carrying on that mental
00:26:37
and I suppose the knowledge that he passes on to you is going to be passed on to another generation but hey Barry
00:26:43
McGee fantastic like distance Runner marathon runner but um he knows nothing about you know like lapse racing yeah
00:26:49
he's um he's definitely struggled over the last year or so too come to terms with the backyard Ultra
00:26:56
concept especially like uh I feel like it would have been right enough for Lydia's wheelhouse though
00:27:02
right yeah yeah I mean he was alive he definitely appreciates he definitely appreciates like the level
00:27:10
of Madness that it takes he he likes the the alternative and the and the kind of
00:27:16
groundbreaking aspect of the sport so he likes it from that but yeah I've definitely explained
00:27:23
the concept of a backyard and running loops and there are only being one person left standing and and that type
00:27:29
of thing to him a few times have you have you sort of outgrown him as a coach now do you think
00:27:36
I suppose what I'm asking is is there like a specialist um like backyards or
00:27:40
Ultra ultra distance coach that you can tap into I think I am I'm probably at the point where I am
00:27:50
the inventor in the world of backyard like I am coaching myself on that aspect and
00:27:59
and and coaching others and educating others on on how they they can go deep I mean
00:28:06
I've made no secret about how I do this I've put out videos I was like you want
00:28:10
the secret sauce here it is do this do this this this and this and you will you can win the only thing that's stopping
00:28:17
you is is your your desire to push through the pain uh on on the berry front though like yeah
00:28:25
no he's he's a wealth of knowledge he's helped me to uh essentially do what needs to be done
00:28:35
like you'll lie to yourself and you'll cheat yourself any day of the week and I
00:28:40
reached out to him because I knew exactly what I needed to do and running I needed I needed to be doing 100 mile a
00:28:46
week at least week after week but it was actually having someone to break it down into into what workouts I
00:28:54
needed to be doing and and then also just basically having someone to to bounce ideas off and and be honest to
00:29:02
and like it means rather than skipping a workout or skipping a week like I've got
00:29:08
him that is expecting me to be doing this so he's getting yeah he's essentially there as the the police
00:29:18
officer to make sure I'm I'm sticking to the rules okay he's he's a great man can
00:29:22
I ask what he charges you what is it some insanely low amount yeah he's 20 bucks a week what he's far too cheap I
00:29:28
think it's like 500 bucks a year or something yeah he I guess it's like 10
00:29:32
bucks a week he he just loves still being involved in that Community um and it's a it's an absolute joy to
00:29:38
see someone else I've had on the podcast uh twice now Arch jelly who's 100 almost
00:29:42
101. John Walker's Old Coach and he's the same he's on Strava following people
00:29:47
keeps an eye on what Sam 10 is up to it's it's blood it's amazing it's
00:29:51
amazing that these guys that have done incredible things themselves in their own Pursuits
00:29:56
um now still live sort of vicariously through you know the likes of you I guess yeah that's cool okay so all right
00:30:02
let's go to dead cow Galley did Calgary so this is um sort of Inland from the
00:30:07
Sunshine Coast yeah so it's a couple of hours in land yeah a couple hours in
00:30:11
land so you're like you fly into Brisbane and then you drive like two slash two and a half hours like
00:30:15
Northwest up into the kind of the Outback area and it's on a cattle station in a place called nanango which
00:30:22
is a bit of a middle of nowhere type place pretty much everywhere in Australia is
00:30:27
in the middle of nowhere middle of nowhere place so how many people start how many I think we had like a little
00:30:33
over a hundred again like 120 or something started that race yep same what's the um what's the track like so
00:30:39
6.7 K's uh so this one was trying to replicate the World Championship uh Big's backyard course so it had a day
00:30:47
Loop and a night Loop you did 12 hours on the day Loop and then 12 hours on the night Loop uh the day Loop was basically
00:30:52
around the kettle station so it's a dry desserty type Outback stuff so a lot
00:30:59
like orange dirt uh kind of like orangey dirt like very very dusty though so like the the landscape
00:31:07
was very much like burnt burnt Browns and yellows uh and then like dotted around with like eucalyptus trees
00:31:15
and stuff like that and uh yeah bright blue sky and yeah just very very vibrant vibrant Outback colors which was cool
00:31:24
what sort of temperature during the day I want to say it was in the 20s during the day it was
00:31:31
yeah it was it was warm slash hot but it was it was dry so like yeah normally I'd
00:31:38
run around in the days during these with a bit of humidity so I'd have my top off
00:31:41
and be cooling down that way but yeah for the most part like it was top on uh warm but there was a bit of Cool Breeze
00:31:51
from time to time so that made that made the days very enjoyable yeah and it's
00:31:54
pretty flat uh yeah that course was very flat so I think at most there might have
00:31:58
been like 45 meters of of the the during during the 6.7 kilometer course which is
00:32:04
very it's it's very relaxed okay so the Run starts um what are you doing the first lap
00:32:12
uh I kind of come out guns are blazing and just say hey guys I'm I'm here to do business and
00:32:20
I I do a hot hot 26 minute lap [ __ ] say like four minute case just under four minute case so you're quite a handy
00:32:27
Runner you're quite a fast runner yeah I've got Pace yeah yeah [ __ ] is it's advisable what does Barry
00:32:32
McGee say about that ah like the sensible thing you would think would be to go as slow as what you can in the
00:32:38
first one I mean something I think at this point in the in the backyard Ultra I'm almost helping to write the rule
00:32:43
book uh I mean like I'm kind of at the upper level of the performance so like I can
00:32:49
kind of do what I want I mean like although I'm saying they're going into this race you
00:32:54
were you were Mr 46 hours so that's a that's a very very Brash ballsy cocky
00:33:01
arrogant move yeah definitely but I mean like I know what my body can do yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean doing doing one
00:33:07
little hot lap at 26 for me is is definitely not at my upper limit like it's not like I was doing three minute
00:33:13
15ks or anything so it was definitely within within my wheelhouse and then I settle into Pace and I and then I do
00:33:19
nice slow like 45 to 50 minute Loops so just to fire an early shot really yeah pretty much yeah so the guy that ended
00:33:28
up winning Phil Gore what did he do in the first lap you know I don't know you
00:33:31
don't care no not really so you must be so you finished that first lap used about a half an hour to go before you go
00:33:38
again you must have been bored shitless what are you well the joke was that in future I
00:33:44
should pump out one of these hot laps and then record a podcast yeah do it do a 30 minute podcast what and
00:33:52
and like cheer everybody over the line and give them do interviews with them so that might be uh that might be World
00:33:58
champs this year in terms of Mind Games that's not bad yeah just a little bit of
00:34:01
[ __ ] okay so so um so you start these events so the first one you fire out a 30 minute lap
00:34:08
um you might you you know you how long is it boring for like you know it's going
00:34:13
to get hard but is it the first like 10 hours 12 hours um usually in the regional events so
00:34:19
like the ones dotted all around the country that have done previously like they only usually go for
00:34:25
a day and a half ish and I'm normally bored for the first 24 hours because I'm just like plus I've done so
00:34:34
many of these in some of these events I've done I've done the same course like
00:34:37
a few times like a few years in a row so I yeah I am bored and I'm like what am I
00:34:42
doing here and then and then it finally gets to the pointy end of the race and and then things get interesting
00:34:48
with this one because it obviously went for so much longer like I think I was nearly 48 hours into the race before I
00:34:56
was like not bored anymore so but then after that once once people start dying off and and you get
00:35:05
you get shy of numbers it's like oh we're racing now and that's and that's
00:35:09
what I when I get interested because it's after that point after you're down to maybe
00:35:17
less than 20 or less particularly less than 15 Runners it's like oh like we these these are the people that mean
00:35:23
business it's like these are these are the people who came here with intention
00:35:27
because is there a lot of people that set the goal in mind maybe of uh I don't
00:35:32
know like 100ks or 100 miles or 24 hours or whatever yeah definitely yeah definitely done yeah yeah
00:35:39
um is that um does it give you like a boost when people drop off um it depends I mean like if
00:35:47
if maybe you don't get along with a certain person like maybe if somebody's
00:35:51
been a bit of a dick and you're just like ah see ya then yeah but now for the
00:35:57
most part especially because you like you form such strong bonds out there like like a lot of these people are your
00:36:03
friends yeah and when you see them drop off you like almost hurts you a bit like
00:36:08
especially there's a guy Ryan Crawford he's the Australian number two and he he dipped
00:36:16
on the I think it was on the second night and I was hoping to like go go deep with him yeah is he a mate or
00:36:23
you just saying um he just seems to be on the same kind of spiritual Journey slash hammering the sport the
00:36:32
same way I do is a bit of a battler and he's just an all-around good sort and we
00:36:35
made friends out on course and yeah he was going downhill so I was like I was trying to
00:36:41
I I guess give him a bit of emotional support out on the course and then I also said to my crew I was like
00:36:47
um go over to go over to Ryan's tent and like give them give them some way and Tessa
00:36:53
give him some of my lecture like him some of this give him some of that and see if we can get him right because he
00:36:58
was like really struggling and yeah so uh yeah it it sucked when he disappeared and then likewise I made really good
00:37:09
mates with a guy called Harvey Lewis who's number one out of the US and we were running together for like a good
00:37:15
solid two days and formed like a wild bond between Runners and yeah he he disappeared after 90 hours and that
00:37:26
really hit me too so yeah let's get let's get into that because it was like
00:37:30
a three-hour how long was it three runners for because it was yourself Harvey Lewis who you just mentioned in
00:37:34
the eventual winner Phil Gore how long was it a three horse race for like the final 24 hours or longer um so
00:37:43
I think the fourth place Runner gave up just after the 60 hour mark basically he was he had been on the
00:37:52
qualifying list or the at-large list for the world championship previously but now there's been a a lot more people
00:38:00
hammering and trying to get to world championships that tier has gone up and so I think his qualification was
00:38:05
something in the 50s and now 50s the 50s doesn't get you in basically you've got
00:38:09
to do hundreds of the new 50. pretty much so you've got you've got to do 60
00:38:13
plus hours to get on to that list if you haven't automatically qualified and he
00:38:18
was trying to get back on the list which he did I can't remember if he dipped
00:38:22
after 60 hours but it kind of been that long after and yeah so for from 60 60 something hours through to 90
00:38:31
hours there was three of us and then Harvey and then Harvey dipped on the 90th hour
00:38:38
so yeah so this is what I was talking about early on when um yeah the last couple of days of this race could be
00:38:44
turned into a movie just the Dynamics and the characters and things so um Phil what do you know about Phil Gord
00:38:50
are you friends with Phil Gore uh he's a competitor yeah until recently did you see him as you
00:38:58
know like um like more than a competitor like you like that's the guy I've got a
00:39:01
[ __ ] beat uh yeah I mean look up to him I did I definitely saw him as like someone who was like pushing High
00:39:07
numbers so I was like sweet hell that's the Benchmark uh not not so much The
00:39:11
Benchmark but like if someone's gonna turn up and and throw down with me and
00:39:15
go as far as like I want to go then yeah it's probably there's probably him
00:39:20
there's Harvey uh there's Ryan Crawford these These are the guys that if
00:39:25
anybody's gonna go to to the world record and further with me it's these
00:39:29
these guys are are going to be the ones that that lay down yeah so before this event
00:39:35
um if someone said to Phil Gore what do you know about Sam Harvey what would he have said were you on his radar at all
00:39:40
or yeah he's definitely been studying me for a while yeah I think he's been
00:39:43
following my strawberry and whatever so yeah he's definitely kind of seen me as
00:39:49
the as the guy the up and Camera the the guy over in New Zealand who's who's
00:39:53
doing things okay and what about Harvey Lewis what do you know about Harvey Lewis prior to this event I mean
00:39:58
Harvey's I would argue in the top 10 most famous ultra distance athletes out
00:40:03
of America and like in in in current times so like yeah he's world famous like his his reputation
00:40:11
precedes him as an amazing Runner both in both in the backyard Ultra but he's
00:40:15
run for the U.S 24-hour team like countless times and he he literally just finished bad water 135
00:40:28
this morning or last night so that was his 12th running of the bad water 135 so yeah he's a he's an animal and
00:40:36
yeah I definitely knew who he was and now you weren't friends there was no like pre-existing sort of relationship
00:40:42
to speak of no no not at all social media friends oh I think I was following yeah I was
00:40:48
following him but you never met though prior to the dead Cal value no no so why did you guys decide to link up and sort
00:40:55
of form I don't know like a bromance or whatever you want to call it I don't
00:40:59
know just an alliance maybe just had the spark really yeah like how why I don't
00:41:03
know and just got got to yarning and he was it was a good lad and I don't know there was just something
00:41:09
intangible that like really clicked and then all of a sudden we're out there
00:41:13
running Loops uh shouting at the woods and having a good time I've got other
00:41:23
I guess Nashville Tennessee over in the US as my second home which is where I kind of like built a bit of a life
00:41:29
around like rugby and all that and that's where I met my now wife Anna and so I guess we've got like a little bit
00:41:37
of a common ground of yeah we we do ultra marathons but actually I've also I appreciate the hell out of the US and
00:41:45
and all things American well not all things but yeah we'll exclude gun violence from the list
00:41:52
and then a number of other things yeah I know what you mean I love American culture as well exactly so um yeah we
00:41:58
got chatting and yeah all of a sudden we were yawning shouting keep keeping each other's moods going
00:42:05
and yeah all of a sudden it was the Harvey Show and like yeah yeah Sam Harvey and Harvey Lewis Harvey and
00:42:11
Harvey yeah we might need to get you onto our onto the Harvey Show and there it could be Harvey Harvey and Harvey you
00:42:17
guys can pull me through lap five come on Tom stick with it that's the one so
00:42:22
um and um most of these backyard events they have like your sort of um like a like a
00:42:27
campsite if you will but this one you were like sleeping in a house at night uh so the race base was centered around
00:42:34
The Farmhouse where the where the race director he actually lives and so I was like this old
00:42:42
weatherboard farm house and I wasn't in there until like the fourth night so I was just out in the
00:42:49
campsite out with everybody else who was in there in the early nights or was it one of those
00:42:54
um situations where they waited till the field had whittled down to a small enough number that all the competitors
00:42:59
could go into a house no not quite so so Harvey they'd obviously he was the he was the he was he was the money
00:43:08
ticket like he he had been brought over by the race director they'd pay for paid for his
00:43:13
flights and put him up and and done all that and so he was the VIP he was the VIP so he he was he was in there from
00:43:21
the start of the race uh had his own bedroom and all that it seems like an unfair advantage in a way no maybe and
00:43:27
then also Phil Gore who was the Australian Champion the adventure winner he was in the house as well from from
00:43:33
the get-go right and then uh and then it was on the fourth fourth night uh they gave you a key to the house yeah they
00:43:40
the the race director gave gave me his bedroom uh and so I got to move into the house and and so I went from like kind
00:43:47
of sitting around the the campfire and a camp chair or in a gazebo to to like sitting in a bedroom
00:43:55
slash lying on a bed for for 10 minutes we've only been chatting for 45 minutes
00:44:00
but I'm I'm guessing you don't give a flying fackle either way whether you're
00:44:03
in a like a pull out chair next to a tent or you're in a house not really it's all business to you yeah I mean
00:44:08
yeah but it must be nice what was the what was the climate like there at night was it bloody freezing it's cold as hell
00:44:14
yeah yeah so it must be nice it would have been a luxury Right Moving from a campsite into a house yeah definitely
00:44:20
yeah yeah it was do you you sleep at all in those later stages what was the biggest sleep you had I think the
00:44:26
biggest sleep I had was 15 minutes right see I and what was the average sleep like five minutes eight minutes 60
00:44:34
seconds maybe 180 seconds three seconds uh three minutes it's not a fear that your support crew
00:44:41
won't better wake you up now my my support crew have a job 60 seconds doesn't seem worth it
00:44:48
it's all sleep at the end of the day bro plugging your phone in for 60 seconds
00:44:55
yeah man you'd be surprised what it can do yeah I suppose a couple more texts yeah
00:45:03
I mean a starving man will probably kill you for a peanut yeah yeah that's a good
00:45:07
one um okay so yes are you and Harvey Lewis is it a is it like a a formal sort of
00:45:13
check you have or is it informal or you just end up running together and yeah we
00:45:17
just end up running together and when does this happen like day three yeah maybe day two or three like yeah
00:45:23
definitely what like once it's like the numbers are whittling down and yeah it
00:45:27
just seems to be that we're chatting more and more and getting into a system of like maybe running and
00:45:34
then walking for a little bit and and basically hitting different different points out on course at certain times to
00:45:41
allow us to uh yeah basically get a get to the end of of the course with with time to spear to do what we need to
00:45:49
at the end of each hour but also kind of rest our bodies so we're not kind of
00:45:53
hammering it hammering our bodies into the ground because what's what's the
00:45:57
dream in those letter stages is it like 10 minutes at the end of the hour yeah I was definitely getting 10 yeah 10
00:46:03
plus minutes uh once we like once me and Harvey were like I know in the evening slash doing air like our walk run walk
00:46:12
run walk run little little setup then yeah maybe we were doing like 52 or 54. minutes per left but yeah that's still
00:46:19
plenty of time to eat drink sleep whatever yeah and I suppose with two of you doing it you help keep each
00:46:28
other honest in terms of the the walk run breaks yeah so they don't blow out
00:46:31
so how did that look like say 10 minutes run three minutes walk what was the system like seven on three off
00:46:41
three on two off three on two off so it was like seven minutes to get you in and
00:46:46
then like and then a three two three two kind of like a really weird fat lick sort of system yeah pretty pretty pretty
00:46:52
much and um and then like you're probably having to take a leak every hour so like yeah
00:46:59
you're stopping to do that the other person continues and maybe you have to do a jog to to catch up to where where
00:47:04
they are and then that allows you to kind of hit or I mean by the time you've
00:47:10
by the time you've even run something like 24 laps or 30 laps like you get a
00:47:15
pretty good idea of where you're supposed to be and when down to down to the like the second
00:47:21
like you're you're hitting the same plots out on the course like within one second variation lap
00:47:29
after lap quite often or it's yeah it's very it's it's very accurate so so
00:47:35
Harvey Lewis and yourself you were running together with intention where where was felt like was he did he sort
00:47:42
of sit just behind you guys was he monitoring it's got to be so much more of an advantage like like teaming up
00:47:47
with someone else right I think he was around like 39 minutes 40. so he was ahead of you he wasn't he yeah yeah wow
00:47:54
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure someone said he was running 39 minutes 40 and he was running that like
00:47:58
clockwork like like 39 minutes 40 Years Phil 39 minutes 40. here's Phil um unbelievable yeah so a bit of a
00:48:08
machine so he was just coming in and he was running this hot laps me and Harvey were more kind of just chilling having
00:48:12
our conversation getting the job done yeah and and what happened to Harvey Lewis
00:48:18
um when did he start to fade uh so I think the 90th hour was his last hour that he completed which
00:48:27
he holds the he held the American record at 85 hours so he upped his American record to 90 hours okay and yeah I guess
00:48:35
it was in the last few hours like he was just getting a bit slower and his his conversation was getting a little
00:48:40
bit funky and like I didn't realize that he was maybe kind of losing it but yeah he was slowing and slow and
00:48:47
That Was Then slowing me down and then I was like yo bro like I I actually I need a bit more rest
00:48:54
I'm gonna need to like jog this one and so like I'm not gonna do any walk and
00:48:57
he's like yeah no bro you you do what you got to do so I'd like I'd start
00:49:01
jogging and I'd I'd get more and more rest like getting 10 and 11 and 12 and 15 minutes
00:49:09
of rest and I guess maybe in that time maybe Harvey was slowing down getting less and less rest
00:49:18
maybe getting less and less food or less water or maybe it was getting colder I don't know what what was happening but
00:49:24
yeah eventually it was getting slower and slower and yeah I I passed them on one Loop
00:49:30
to give and like gave him gave him some UPS I was like come on bro like don't
00:49:34
give up on me like smash it out I'll see you at the end and it's just like
00:49:38
I don't think I'm gonna finish this one man I was like oh [ __ ] so I finished my Loop
00:49:45
and yeah as I'm like coming towards the end of my loop I should be crop should
00:49:48
have crossed over with him at that point and I can't see him I'm like damn like
00:49:53
he's he's out like I can't help him so I run into the race base and I say is
00:49:57
Harvey back yet like has he has he given up and like walked just cut course and walked home
00:50:04
and they're like nah and I was like go get him like go get Harvey was this in
00:50:09
darkness was this night time or daytime yeah it was it was Darkness like pitch black and cold yeah
00:50:15
so I yeah I was like go get Harvey so I was like drive down the road turn right find him bring him back and yeah that's
00:50:23
what they did and and after this um intense um but very brief on the big scheme of
00:50:29
things relationship like how do you feel at the time like are you um are you sad at the time are you
00:50:36
bummed out are you able to process it or are you like just [ __ ] I've got a job to
00:50:39
do I can compartmentalize this and deal with it later oh I was devastated well yeah at the time especially because like
00:50:45
we'd been there for each other for so long I've done another podcast and I've
00:50:51
actually cried at this at this at this point in the podcast so I'm doing well
00:50:55
right now like it's pretty damn emotional for me uh yeah I felt like I hadn't been there to
00:51:03
to save him when like like going into that night Loop going into the 12 hours of night
00:51:10
I may have well saved him getting off the day course because he was going really slow
00:51:17
like I was I was doing a pretty slow Loop like maybe one of my slowest but he was going even slower and I was
00:51:23
and I could see him in the distance and I started shouting at him across across the galley
00:51:28
to hurry his ass up and then I just started jinging him up and chowing and just like making so much noise so that
00:51:35
he would like like yeah like a cheerleader for him nothing not that you necessarily had
00:51:40
extra energy to spare but yeah like they were running you were dealing with your
00:51:43
own battles but yeah I was kind of giving them the like the kick up the ass or at least the encouragement to like
00:51:49
get that Loop done because as soon as you got that Loop done we're out on the
00:51:52
night course and it's been a bit of a change of pace change of scenery in a different ball game for the next 12
00:51:58
hours so yeah I guess I'd I'd help them to get there and I'd help them to do
00:52:03
certain certain things throughout the race and yeah uh I guess I'd lost my brother at that point like I'd lost I'd
00:52:10
lost someone who was invested in my race and I was invested in his race hmm do you think you've got like um
00:52:19
like success guilt or Survivor guilt or something yeah a little bit of that yeah
00:52:23
definitely definitely Survivor guilt um but you can't save everybody at the end
00:52:29
of the day well he's ultimately he's running his own run and you're running
00:52:32
yours right yeah you've got you've got to be responsible for yourself out there
00:52:36
um like I mean technically you're not allowed to render Aid in one of these like once
00:52:42
you're out there you're out there I mean like yeah you can like you can encourage
00:52:45
people and all that but like you can't you can't pick them up you can't carry
00:52:50
them you can't give them food or water or a light or anything it's like once
00:52:54
they're out they're out there and you've got to look after yourself and then at
00:52:57
the end of the day like we are at that at that tier where it's like you you're
00:53:02
you're the Professionals of the sport it's like you you know how to get it done and you know
00:53:09
how to mess it up so yeah it's it's all on you out there really what do you what do you think you um you
00:53:16
feel about it now like is it is it sort of like an overwhelming sadness is it grief is it guilt what is it
00:53:23
um if it is guilt it shouldn't be yeah I don't know you know what I mean yeah
00:53:28
like the feelings have faded a wee bit and and in all honesty look I've gone and matched the world record
00:53:36
slash assisted the new world record and then done what nobody thought could be done and turned around in a week
00:53:43
later gone and won another last man standing at 288ks which is like between the two
00:53:49
races I've done 965 kilometers in the space of two weeks which is like wild and it's great for the Strava stats
00:53:56
yeah Kudos on that yeah just like I think I've got three weeks in a row where my average is like
00:54:03
something like 300 kilometers which is wild but um yeah like everybody knew that Harvey was going into this race and
00:54:12
then he was going to back it up with bad water 135 so he was like everyone's like you're a Madman to to go
00:54:19
and turn around and do that and then before he'd gone to bed water I'd gone and smash this one out and he's
00:54:24
sending me things like damn bro you made me you make me feel guilty now I've got
00:54:28
to like go and do it I've got to go hard at bad water or you're going to make me
00:54:31
look bad I'm like like both of us have just smashed out like potentially once in a lifetime
00:54:38
achievements like he came third overall mail for bad water and I came first for my last man's my second last man
00:54:45
standing event like yeah you guys are cutting your own path yeah we're we're dominating so so you're um
00:54:53
boys for life now straight up yeah yeah yeah yeah like just this this bond that can never be broken now yeah the Harvey
00:55:00
Show how old's he and how old are you I thought he was 41 and I Googled him the other day I think he's like 47 or 48
00:55:07
right so what are you I just turned 30 something so he's like so you're very
00:55:12
young for the sport that's encouraging right oh that's that's wildly
00:55:16
encouraging yeah like a lot of these a lot of athletes and ultra marathon don't
00:55:20
Peak until they're like late 30s or like into their 40s and I've essentially managed to get to
00:55:27
the top top tier in the world by 30 like I was national champion at 29 I'm now
00:55:34
at world champion slash world record level by 30 and the way I see I've got at least a 15-year career ahead of me so
00:55:43
that's your knees might disagree with that but we'll see I mean I think Harvey
00:55:47
is a pretty good example of longevity like yeah yeah as long as you do everything right and do all the rehab
00:55:52
and strength and conditioning you'll be sweeter exactly but I mean like stats
00:55:55
wise like someone came out with the with the world stats the other day and I'm
00:55:59
the I think I'm the youngest the youngest person in the top 30 in in the world and I'm the only person born
00:56:09
after 1990 in the top 20. [ __ ] how good yeah so good and everybody else is like born in the like the 60s
00:56:20
70s 80s like they're all they're all old it's like the running version of lawn
00:56:25
bowls there's the odd outlier the young person doing it but it's me yeah yeah
00:56:30
how good so um yeah so Harvey he tapped out at 91 hours it was um lap 95 95 hours were you where you collapsed
00:56:40
run us through that what happened there yeah I guess I just I'd gone into the
00:56:44
race with a bit of a cold or whatever and then your immune system regardless of if
00:56:51
you're well or not takes a hit during these things because you're smashing
00:56:55
your system like generally even if I'm good going into these races I'll probably end up with like
00:57:02
mucus phlegm all sorts of block ups for the next week or two after because my system's just taking such a hit that's a
00:57:09
lot on the lungs isn't it it's a hell of a lot of breathing so you end up you
00:57:13
generally end up with a pretty inflamed um respiratory system anyway but yeah so
00:57:18
I went in with with a cold the cold progressed by the Saturday night or the first night into maybe a chest infection
00:57:27
like I was I was just coughing up and snorting up like these huge chunks of green like the
00:57:33
size of your knuckle and like not just one not just one or two like a lot of them
00:57:37
and that was nasty uh and then by the Sunday morning they had mostly cleared and I was like oh sweet we good
00:57:45
run into the Sunday night and I think it was like Sunday night slash Monday basically
00:57:51
I've got a permanent nose drip I'm blown up chunks and coughing up chunks
00:57:57
of both mucous phlegm and blood and this basically carries on until the um until the end of the race and I guess
00:58:06
that progressed into chest infection that progressed into some type of pneumonia
00:58:11
and then yeah by the end of the race or by by the 95th hour when I was like out on course and I just like go down I'm
00:58:17
like actually struggling for breath and and I like I come into the Farmhouse at the
00:58:22
end of the hour and I just like collapse on the couch I don't even get to the
00:58:25
bedroom and just like collapse on the couch and like on the floor the like they've
00:58:32
got a videographer the videographer's got his got his camera in my face and I
00:58:35
look like I'm about to have a heart attack and uh yeah um everybody's like terrified that
00:58:43
I'm gonna die from a from a race um PR perspective or race director's perspective the last thing he wants to
00:58:51
death oh totally yeah it's not great for business yeah it might look bad on the
00:58:56
resume well just for future years I I mean if someone dies it's potentially the end of
00:59:01
an event right yeah I mean or I mean look at MDS Marathon what happened there oh people die at
00:59:09
Marathon disabled yeah like most years I'm pretty sure like so I think that's
00:59:13
just notches in the belt for them yeah if anything it is it adds to the notoriety of that event yeah yeah
00:59:19
oh um I know we can get back to that and I just I just remembered you sent me a text last night saying um oh it's a good
00:59:25
time to have me in what what did you mean what's is there some news blowing off about your oh no no just I mean like
00:59:31
the like you you obviously wanted to catch up like a couple weeks ago and and a lot of other people who have
00:59:40
interviewed me have kind of struck while the Iron's hot and they interviewed me
00:59:43
last week where last week I just done a world record this this week I've done a world record
00:59:48
and and backed it up with this oh they're Christchurch yeah and like people like
00:59:55
people in my sport they're like you shouldn't do that like that's like
00:59:59
that's that's a recipe for the disaster or or you can't do that like there's no
01:00:04
way you're going to win there on top it's like watch me brother well that I
01:00:08
mean that that's the thing and um this is why I love speaking to people like
01:00:10
yourself and um do you know jono Riddler have you heard of Jonah Riddler Jonah Riddler did a massive swim from um Great
01:00:16
Barrier Island I didn't put a couple of weeks ago so yeah no no I heard about
01:00:19
that I just didn't know his name it was 99 kilometer ocean swimming just there's
01:00:24
all sorts of rules like you're only allowed talks you're not allowed a wetsuit
01:00:27
um not allowed to touch the boat at all and things that things are only impossible until someone does them and
01:00:33
then the boundaries get redefined and that's what I love about guys like Johnny Riddler and guys like yourself
01:00:37
yeah Ultra Ultra swimming's wild too because like you're out there you're
01:00:41
swimming but you've got this added a factor of um basically all of them go hypoxic make you
01:00:48
you you go Blue while you're out there and um yeah it's really unhealthy like
01:00:53
someone recently I think swung the cook straight and and in the last like stretch died because
01:01:00
they were when hypoxic and and drown so like that that sports that Sports Next Level although those guys would say your
01:01:07
sports next level true yeah it's all perspective isn't it okay all right so um lip 95 is the
01:01:15
collapse and is that when negotiations are going on with the race director and your support crew that like we've got to
01:01:20
pull Sam off the course yeah I mean that's definitely when they're wanting wanting me to stop like
01:01:28
you're not healthy to go on and I definitely had a mo a moment of I'm staffed and then I was like okay if this
01:01:36
like he'd do a job and I had a moment like that uh in Christchurch as well like went down on
01:01:42
my knees and I'm like it might be time to stop and I said no if this we had to
01:01:48
do a job like get up go and I did and uh yeah negotiations were going on at that
01:01:56
point I didn't really know but basically the people who were backing me are saying like let them get the job done uh
01:02:02
and the race director's like this guy's stuffed and I think they're my team's
01:02:06
argument was well you would be two of you with this team yeah yeah rightfully stuff so what's your mom like
01:02:15
us as a support person because um I don't know I suppose there's that mother's instinct that you know you want
01:02:22
to you want to protect your boy or whatever but is she quite good at um you know understanding your limitations and
01:02:27
not throwing in the towel on your behalf too early yeah totally uh she's very organized like she
01:02:39
she's she's goddamn god tier crew crew person slash crew crew head like she she
01:02:46
runs the team and she she knows exactly what needs to be done in advance of of when it needs to be done
01:02:54
so yeah I I guess I can like trust her to just like do all that stuff in the background and then I can focus on the
01:02:59
running yeah but yeah like once we were that deep like I guess the voice of reason kicks
01:03:06
in and and that's when she wanted me to to pull I mean I've had like the
01:03:11
conversation with her since then I'm like any future race like don't talk me out of it like
01:03:20
like I race until I'm dead that's it and that was the race director's fear
01:03:26
that you would raise till you did okay so it's a 100 101 hours if we've established just reminding people and
01:03:32
677 case so the adventure winner Phil Gord did he know or does his team know about these
01:03:38
conversations that were going on uh negotiations for a lack of a better term yeah I don't know I mean like part of
01:03:44
part of part of the like race directors thing was if I'm going to continue looping then Phil has to stay with me
01:03:51
basically as a as a like a safety precaution that way like if I Collapse he can render Aid whether that's CPR or
01:03:59
whatever and so like he knew I was in a bad way like I'd collapsed in front of
01:04:05
him like in that in The Farmhouse so he saw how bad I was but yeah then I pulled pulled it
01:04:12
together and like I was still I was still lapping it lapping out 10 with 10 minutes of rest at the end of each one
01:04:19
so that was all that was all good and yeah he I guess he knew the conversations were going on and then you
01:04:25
basically once we were out doing lap 101 I said to him like I've made the agreement with everybody back at camp
01:04:34
that this will be my last lap I was like are you ready to do a hot lap right because because he would have had
01:04:40
to do the 102nd to to essentially win and he's like oh no I'm not going to do
01:04:47
a whole lap I might hurt myself which is fair enough um I certainly couldn't do a hot lap in
01:04:53
Christchurch the other day like I was I was spent so yeah he he knew that I was I was about
01:05:01
to give up to Forfeit sort of thing um because there's a photo here that I saw
01:05:06
online on lap uh 101 and it looks like you're doing I don't know like a like an
01:05:12
airplane or a Superman or something like you look happy as [ __ ] yeah I mean like
01:05:16
at the end of the day you don't look like a broken man put it that way no and
01:05:20
that's probably a good indication that people should have stayed out of my ear and allowed me
01:05:26
to continue my race I mean like it hurts who cares like let me let me go to let me go to 140 let me
01:05:33
go to 150 let me really do something stupid it's going to suck for those last
01:05:36
couple of days but like Daddy's [ __ ] what do you what yeah any idea what your
01:05:44
limitation would be do you really think like what another couple of days I think there's almost a level of
01:05:50
perpetuality in this provided you're taking all the boxes I mean eventually you may
01:05:56
Teeter on the on the brink of Madness like I know that when Harvey when Harvey wandered off and
01:06:04
timed out during his 91st hour like he was looking at the side of the road and he was seeing grass people and he's like
01:06:11
I didn't just see one grass person he's like I saw all the grass people like
01:06:15
full-blown hallucinations yeah full-blown hallucinations so like you get to that level and and so yeah you've
01:06:20
gotta you've got to manage that and hopefully not go into that loopy Zone but um
01:06:25
I don't see why you can't continue this for a very long time like I believe I
01:06:32
believe eventually like we're gonna probably break the seven day or the 10-day record outright during a backyard
01:06:38
like those are those are actual events that people compete in and yeah in this format we may we may well go
01:06:45
that deep and then break those records which is going to be wild so yeah we're
01:06:50
just kind of scratching the surface to be honest [ __ ] that's exciting and also terrifying
01:06:55
at the same time and you you say we like uh this is going to happen in your career this is that
01:07:01
you're not looking you know people talk about breaking the two-hour Marathon
01:07:04
barrier and how they're like it may not happen in my lifetime you're talking
01:07:07
about you being one of these contenders I think I think I'll probably do an October provided provided everybody's up
01:07:13
to the challenge and then if not it'll be next year what's that is that the big
01:07:17
Big's backyard Big's backyard where's that that's in Bell Buckle in Tennessee
01:07:21
which is like an hour down the road from where I used to live right okay so it's
01:07:25
almost like a like a alternative home course oh it's it's like I'm so excited because it's not this
01:07:33
intangible place in America that I've never heard of it's down down the road from where I used to live like
01:07:39
this is this is a homecoming for me and it gives me like such happening it gives
01:07:43
me such a home field advantage like I've got I've got like literally my American Family
01:07:49
in-laws who live a few hours up up the road in a different state and they're gonna they're gonna be nearby
01:07:57
I've got all my Rugby crowd slash family that I've built over the years since 2016. they live just
01:08:05
down the road yeah so you have a lot of support on course potentially or yeah faces popping in and out yeah people
01:08:11
aren't allowed out on course it's very kind of privately private but like in
01:08:15
the lead up through the race like I'm definitely going to have a lot of love
01:08:19
and support and like there's definitely going to be a lot of people rooting for
01:08:23
me and people spectators allowed at the start finish area no no wow wow why uh so it's a terrible marketing
01:08:33
strategy yeah no I totally agree and I guess Laz who has created the sport has kind of created this monster that's now
01:08:42
like grown into crazy massive beast but uh it's held on his little farm in Bell
01:08:52
Buckle Tennessee it's kind of middle of nowhere type deal little farm it's got a little Farmhouse and like not
01:09:01
too many amenities like they're having to bring in porta potties and and and
01:09:05
all the likes of additional stuff so it's like a [ __ ] really [ __ ] Festival
01:09:10
[Music] it's definitely Festival Vibes no music not much sleep a lot of exercise no
01:09:16
drugs yeah apart from Karen's yeah Karen's and uh uh Tailwind lots of lots
01:09:24
of Tailwind a lot of caffeine a lot hell of a lot of caffeine yeah um and yeah I think basically that I
01:09:31
think they've got the capacity to have like 200 or so people right there so it's basically it's the runners it's
01:09:37
their support crew uh there's the race official slash event personnel and then
01:09:44
there's like the media um slash people there's people like recording movies
01:09:48
slash documentaries and that's all they really have capacity for Because by the
01:09:52
time four or five days of this is up like they will have really tapped into their resources as far as
01:10:00
like water and like the porta potties are probably going to be in a bit of a state and okay so this is not the
01:10:05
infrastructure yeah there's no infrastructure they have all the people there so now you've you've talked um at
01:10:11
sort of reasonable length and you've been quite open about this about the thing you call your secret sauce so it's
01:10:15
like you're putting your cards out on the table you're keeping no secrets from
01:10:19
anyone you're basically giving people the blueprint which to be honest I think
01:10:22
it's a blueprint that most of it is in your head so it can't be necessarily
01:10:26
duplicated but um how would you describe the secret sauce like how how can how can anyone do this and do well yeah I
01:10:33
mean at the end of the day you're running and you're running a major a manageable
01:10:38
distance you're running a very manageable distance and at least early on yeah at the end of the day
01:10:45
you need to eat you need to drink you need to potentially sleep at some point and and wear clothes or or whatever so
01:10:53
it's it's getting it's getting the formula just right yeah it's it
01:10:58
might be anywhere from if you can only get 20 gram of carbohydrate in per hour then it's it's that but if you're
01:11:04
adapted it might be any thing through to 90 gram of carbohydrate per hour which for most runners or human beings is
01:11:12
going to be too much and then you're going to have gi discomfort so it's
01:11:15
getting in there it's uh it's getting in like 500 ml depending on the depending on the heat
01:11:23
out there but roughly 500 mL of fluids each hour and then that's got to have
01:11:29
electrolytes in it so you you're putting some sort of drink mix in it whether
01:11:34
it's just purely salts or if you're throwing a a drink mix in there like a
01:11:39
sports drink that's got both the calories in the form of uh carbohydrate and then also getting your your salts in
01:11:47
and then so you've got your hydration possibly nutrition and that might come in the form of anything
01:11:55
really whether it's yeah carbohydrates or proteins or fats and uh you just eat whatever's on the
01:12:03
table Yeah Dean Kinesis he one of the um sort of I suppose the original mainstream like ultra marathon runner
01:12:10
you know he became famous for a it was quite a kind of shtick I guess but in this book he talked about like ordering
01:12:16
pizzas on the run and just rolling up a pizza and eating it like a burrito yeah straight up so I mean any anything
01:12:23
anything that works in the moment realistically I mean like I eat a lot of candy out there chocolate and
01:12:30
lollies and stuff like that but yeah then I'm eating a lot of real food too and that might be mum's made of beef [ __ ]
01:12:36
pie or um we we get Chinese like they'll go to the nearest Chinese Takeaway and
01:12:42
I'll be in like stir-fry noodles or stir-fried rice and and just getting getting stuff that's
01:12:47
tasty because you'll be going with a fork wouldn't you rather than Chopper sticks because you
01:12:52
gotta limited eating time maybe maybe I'll try it with chopsticks next time just just to be fancy but yeah
01:13:00
essentially just your your palate uh fatigues after a while and so you don't want to eat the same [ __ ] over and
01:13:09
over again you don't want to drink the same flavor drink over and over again
01:13:13
and and so it's just getting in whatever tastes good and whatever has the right
01:13:19
kind of macronutrients that are going to fuel you basically to keep you happy I mean yeah just just keeping your fuel
01:13:26
fueled throughout I mean I think even Phil Gore was having like a roast dinner at one point during the race in
01:13:32
Australia so yeah it's just it's what you can eat at the time it's not overeating because if you if you get
01:13:39
too much in then you're going to cause GI distress but uh yeah whatever works
01:13:44
in the moment have you just found all these sweet spots through trial and error definitely yeah yeah I mean I've
01:13:49
been doing it long enough that I know what works I know what doesn't work for
01:13:52
me and then sometimes I'll be presented with something new in the moment that
01:13:57
I've never thought of before and and like I'll wolf it down and uh and and all of a sudden it's like oh
01:14:04
we'll add that to the where that to the pile and then like I might do another
01:14:08
race and I'll be presented with that that third option I'll just be like Nat
01:14:14
don't want it and how did your um relationship and association with currents come about oh I'm on the
01:14:21
Karen's bus as well yeah um I I I I sort of think most supplements are um Placebo for me at
01:14:27
least but um I find with Karen's it's there is a tangible difference in terms
01:14:31
of recovery yeah definitely so did you were you a fan of them or did they approach you and say Hey try this and
01:14:37
yeah yeah I guess I'd been told about them they'd been told about me they they
01:14:41
knew how I who I was and what I was doing within the sport and I I ran into them at tarawera and
01:14:47
basically said hey I'm here I'm doing weird running stuff maybe maybe we could
01:14:53
team up and yeah like I knew the I knew the benefits of of black currants and and anthocyanins
01:15:01
um I had I'd known about them for for quite a number of years so yeah uh basically I've been using
01:15:07
them since tarawera in February I think and yeah they've been yeah pretty pretty
01:15:16
pretty Central in in my in my recovery right interesting so before getting on to what you're saying
01:15:23
Sam Harvey is before Karen's your Beast was 46 hours after currents your best
01:15:28
was 101 hours yeah you could put it like that how do you take them because I just take
01:15:34
two a day like usually in the morning when I do have a protein shake and stuff do you do you take um like extra
01:15:41
currants when you're during an event or I usually try and take them on their own
01:15:45
yes I don't take them with like a protein shake or anything like I spaced them out away from away from meals so
01:15:52
it's literally the only thing in my stomach so yeah hopefully I absorb more of of the
01:15:58
good stuff I'm taking it with water if I'm if it's on a training day then
01:16:03
I'm trying to take it like half an hour to to an hour or more before training so
01:16:08
I'm getting the benefits in in the Run and yeah and then if not I'll just take
01:16:16
it every day whenever I'm only taking one capsule because I I'm a smaller dude
01:16:21
than you uh so I maybe don't need as much I feel like you deserve that second
01:16:25
one yeah smaller dude but you're doing some crazy miles yeah so more recently
01:16:29
like even just on like my off days to try and recover I've been taking a couple a day and and then during these
01:16:36
last man standing races I'm just kind of taking them ad-lib like there's a lot of
01:16:40
stuff that I do ad-lib so they did they're definitely part of your toolbox though during the events yeah absolutely
01:16:45
like maybe maybe they're yeah helping me with fat oxidizations I'm using that as
01:16:52
a as as an energy source more or whatever it may be um I mean I don't believe that there's
01:16:58
any one Silver Bullet I'm very much having someone who has a toolkit of a whole heap of different things that
01:17:05
point me in the right direction and this is this is one of my key things that helps me helps me know that I'm I'm
01:17:10
going to get where I'm going so I have that to rely on yeah I'm in a great New
01:17:15
Zealand company they've got some great athletes on their books as well yeah Keepers yeah stacked best of the best
01:17:21
absolutely um so what are some of the non-negotiables in this toolkit that you talk about the
01:17:27
absolute non-negotiable so if you make it to the stat line and you open the toolbox and some of these things aren't
01:17:31
there what's gonna what's gonna rattle you yeah for sure so I mean I go and
01:17:38
I guess I've got I guess I got a bit of a suitcase now but it's uh yes like it's it's all the all the
01:17:47
different rubs for my legs it's multiple pairs of shoes it's multiple pairs of of
01:17:52
thick running socks uh compression leggings compression calf skins multiple Piers of running shorts multiple pairs
01:18:01
of uh non-chafing underwear uh and then I've got chafe cream on on top of that
01:18:08
which I'm like applying liberally throughout the race multiple changes of tops multiple changes of uh thermal
01:18:15
layers multiple changes of windproof layers beanies caps sunnies headlight a spearhead light
01:18:27
another spear light multiple changes of batteries for throughout the night because basically I don't want to get
01:18:36
caught out on course my headlight die and then all of a sudden game over you're stuck in the dark
01:18:46
Bluetooth headphones fully charged cell phone uh multiple power Banks antacids uh what else have I got oh my God it's a
01:19:01
lot have you got like a typed out checklist um or no I mean you you're rattling this
01:19:06
off from memory which is remarkable yeah like I know what I need in the moment I've I guess I've probably like at any
01:19:12
one point in time I've got like a couple of boxes worth of stuff at home and
01:19:15
there's a lot of stuff that depending on the season maybe I don't need to use that stuff outside of a race
01:19:21
I mean like who needs to use like 12 different sets of thermals so like yeah a lot of that stuff just gets boxed
01:19:29
up and it only gets pulled out when we come around to race race day and then I can just kind of yeah have a small draw
01:19:36
of of my daily daily wears and then yeah multiple pairs of shoes uh and for the races in New Zealand then
01:19:45
I've basically I've got my own my own race set up so I've got a trestle table
01:19:49
I've got Camp stretcher slash uh like a pivoting uh camp chair gazebo with with sides hotties
01:20:03
all the cooking utensils does your wife know about the hotties oh I like hot water bottles
01:20:09
I see what you did there I'm so lame so lame it was a lot of hanging fruit I should let it go to the
01:20:16
floor um you mentioned before Bluetooth headphones um David Goggins would say you're a
01:20:21
[ __ ] I I say David Goggins is a [ __ ] on a daily basis What's um yeah you've
01:20:26
been calling him out it's um what's that just just fun fun sport banter yeah he
01:20:31
must get called out by 100 people every day I think he I think he does uh yeah it's been a bit of play
01:20:38
Slash banter like and yeah there's a lot of people that seem to like it but it's fun that I call
01:20:46
out David Goggins and that I'm maybe in the like the the small segment of the population that can do
01:20:52
that and actually like come and back it up yeah uh he hasn't been yeah maybe you will one
01:20:58
day uh I feel like we're is that the goal to get him to buy it or to repost or I'd love to race with him yeah man I
01:21:07
mean like at the end of the day I want to be pushed to the upper limits of of what I can achieve and I think he's
01:21:12
someone who also appreciates that and so yeah what one day we'll we'll throw the
01:21:16
hammer down with each other and whether that's he bites and he comes to one of these
01:21:22
races one day or uh eventually I get my green card so I can move back to the US with my wife and I'm just going to hunt
01:21:28
him down I'm just going to hunt him down I'm going to find out what his racing
01:21:31
calendar is and I'm just gonna start popping up at all these events that he's
01:21:34
at no he does those videos of Instagram where he's running along and someone's
01:21:37
on a bike filming him I reckon you could almost work out what street it's on
01:21:41
because it looks like it's the same street yeah easily um yeah I feel like there's probably a
01:21:48
lot of parallels with with you and him how how do you silence that that inner voice you know when that inner voice
01:21:54
gets really loud and I don't know maybe this maybe I'm predicting you maybe it's
01:21:58
just me but you're like okay well you've done your best and you know no one would
01:22:02
blame you for quitting now like when when those voices come in and they become louder and louder I
01:22:09
feel like I haven't had that voice in a number of years I've like kind of
01:22:14
silenced my own doubt I'm like I just have the belief and I'm just like I'm
01:22:18
here to I'm here to smash stuff and and that's why the last maybe a couple of
01:22:21
years at least in the backyard Ultra format I've been laying the hammer down and
01:22:28
kind of dominating the races like I I haven't had a sense of Doubt throughout
01:22:34
it I'm just like I'm here I'm doing a job and then eventually everybody gives
01:22:37
up and it's like haha one whereas this weekend gone uh the race I did a few days ago
01:22:45
I got a bit cocky once I was enjoying myself I was like Oh my legs have healed after that world
01:22:50
record cool let's let's go and so for the first 24 hours I was running my
01:22:55
Loops probably five minutes faster than I should and like you wanna you want to conserve because you like not only do
01:23:05
you want to not use up all your energy but you don't want to smash your system
01:23:08
and have everything break down on you and so I got a bit too cocky in the first day down in Christchurch I got to
01:23:15
the 24-hour Mark which is 160 kilometers or 100 miles and then I was like oh I'm tired you're way more tired than
01:23:23
what you should be at that point I was like oh I'm I'm I'm sore right
01:23:29
and then I then I come to the sudden realization is like you cooked it bro you stuffed this yeah yeah you [ __ ] up
01:23:36
yeah and you got high on your own Supply I was like damn brother like you you had
01:23:42
the opportunity to do something World Class by by backing up this race or that race with this one
01:23:48
and you stuffed it it's like and so I go into this down negative and I don't usually like I'd
01:23:58
never go into that and I've never I don't think I've ever been in that
01:24:01
headspace for that period of time like it was all of Sunday and I was just like you [ __ ] up you deserve this you cocky
01:24:09
Arrogant Bastard and I was like oh well there's some really good leads in this race
01:24:17
like clean Sutton Shannon Rhodes uh Brandon Purdue all guys that have been hitting this hitting this race type
01:24:25
before and and know what they're doing it's like they deserve this because they
01:24:30
they played the slogan they played the long game and I was like you bust and I I went into negative talk I was I was
01:24:36
out there on course and I was just shouting at myself and it wasn't intentional David Goggins type ship it
01:24:41
was like it was David Goggins actually you [ __ ] three things that you're getting right
01:24:49
now and and you know this out loud or is this internal really loud ugly loud and
01:24:54
to the point where like I came into the gazebo and like there's friends slash family
01:24:59
slash crew in there and I'm like I'm not taking notice of anyone else I'm
01:25:04
talking to myself just absolutely like like grunting and swearing at myself and just and and my mom was like oh this is
01:25:13
ugly like there's certain people that at this point mum's not like letting in the
01:25:16
tent because I'm like I'm going downhill and then I get out there and laughing and I was like you know what
01:25:23
you deserve this you deserve this because you stuffed up but you know what you were able to finish that last Loop
01:25:30
and you're out here on this Loop so you're going to finish the slope and I'm
01:25:33
going to keep you out here and I'm going to keep you suffering and I'm just going
01:25:36
to whip you all day long and you're going to suffer and you're going to learn the lesson of
01:25:42
not being too cocky in the early stages of the race so that way it's an ingrained in you for future for future
01:25:49
experiences so I just went out there and I just beat the [ __ ] out of my soul for all of
01:25:55
Sunday I was like if you can start a lap you can finish a lap if you can finish that
01:26:00
that you can start that next lap and I just kept on just heading myself hitting myself hitting myself and it was like
01:26:07
yeah I'd sometime on the Sunday I like I was like I went out to start my next Loop and
01:26:13
they're like okay be strong and I like go to be strong puff my chest up and walk up to the line
01:26:19
and my legs go out from under me I look like I've been on the person I've
01:26:23
stagger out there and I go to like puff my chest out and I'm cross-eyed and I'm
01:26:27
like oh [ __ ] and I was like oh no and I and the boys take off and I take off as
01:26:35
well very slow and I get about 10 10 meters and I just go down on my hands and knees and I
01:26:41
okay it might be time to go give up and go home and I'm down there on my knees for I
01:26:48
don't know 30 seconds a minute it feels I was like well you you chose to stop right now like you
01:26:56
didn't collapse you're not dying it hurts it sucks who gives a [ __ ] meanwhile everybody's gone silent
01:27:05
because like I'm right there everybody's around me they can see that I'm not good
01:27:12
and then I get up and I charge off and everybody starts cheering they're like Ah hell yeah let's
01:27:18
go and the boys are like a couple hundred meters ahead of me at this point I charge past them off into the forest
01:27:24
and I'm gone and I I didn't do one of my fastest Loops I've done in hours at that
01:27:28
point and I'm back in the race so basically said let's get the job done yeah reset
01:27:34
yeah you I I mean with this type of racing there are there are so many parallels between what you do in actual
01:27:42
life you know there's um there's there's good patches and bad patches dark
01:27:45
patches and light patches so there's a lot of parallel so it must be um you must have learned a lot about your
01:27:52
mental health and resilience and things oh absolutely that are transferable into
01:27:56
day-to-day life yeah I think I I think I wind my mum up a bit because I'm very stoic with with a lot of things
01:28:07
in life now like nothing's really a problem anymore and you haven't always been that way
01:28:14
um I guess I have but now I'm very like a very philosophical about everything and
01:28:19
like I know we'll be driving around in the car and Mum will say something and then
01:28:24
I'll like do some cliche quote or something she's like okay send me all the wise like
01:28:32
shut the [ __ ] out how's your mental health been I know you um you did this run in Australia felt I
01:28:40
am hope um Mike King's charity and your race a [ __ ] time as well um why is that charity important to you
01:28:46
yeah uh so like I like many others run for my own mental health I mean I run because I love the sport now but
01:28:55
like I yeah you'd appreciate what it what it does for your own mentality from the
01:29:02
neck up but it seems alarming that it's only been sort of I don't know like
01:29:04
recent years as in the last 10 15 20 years that people have been made aware of the the mental health benefits and
01:29:10
they come from not just running I suppose but other forms of exercise as well because until I don't know like
01:29:15
sort of recent history it was like cardiovascular and that was sort of a yeah um so I guess I I discovered that
01:29:24
myself and yeah like I've had my struggles as a teenager slash a young guy in my 20s when I was in university
01:29:31
or in in later years or whatever and yeah I guess I've found the benefits myself and it's
01:29:40
helped me to pull myself up out of the darkness and yeah now now that I am kind of coming into my own
01:29:48
and kind of kicking life's ass I want others to to be able to I guess get some of that light from from what
01:29:59
what I can shine and uh for the probably the last couple years I've been thinking about starting my own
01:30:05
mental health charity to to help others out through through my own exploits and then I kind of figured like leading
01:30:13
into dead cow as I reinvent the wheel like why not just partner up with someone who's
01:30:18
already got something Kick-Ass going and and Mike King has created I am hope and
01:30:22
like that's the like the industry standard or the industry leader in the mental health space in New Zealand so I
01:30:29
figured like if I can partner up with him and raise some dollars and and it can go into into somewhere important
01:30:35
where it matters then yeah yeah brilliant he's he's a good man a real battler oh yeah real beta doesn't mind
01:30:42
rolling his sleeves up and you know mucking and getting his hands dirty exactly love that about him
01:30:47
um I saw you do an interview on breakfast TV and they they ended the interview by talking about the world
01:30:52
Champs in October and you just seem supremely confident of winning um which I I fully respect I think it's
01:31:01
[ __ ] amazing but it is also very un kiwi like the Kiwi way I think traditionally at least now I think this
01:31:09
needs to be sort of redefined is someone like Richie McCaw saying oh yeah no we're going to go over there and yeah do
01:31:14
our best and see what happens that's the Kiwi way the Kiwi way is not eyeballing
01:31:18
someone and say I'm gonna go there and I'm gonna [ __ ] smash the world record
01:31:20
and I'm going to win it and I'm going to win it in style um you know where does where does that
01:31:25
come from in all fairness I'm sick of the Kiwi way to if if that's how it's
01:31:29
going to be if it's going to be kind of hiding in the shadows and and doing and
01:31:33
doing what you're told like I agree like I've I'm know I've been bullied my whole life and like
01:31:42
primary school and high school and like made to feel less than I am and and then
01:31:49
even in the like professional workspace like been a pretty high achiever and it's
01:31:54
definitely got me into trouble a couple times just jealousy from people that aren't
01:31:59
doing as well or yeah and just like FYI know how to get something done I'll get it done and
01:32:10
maybe it's not Kosher maybe it's not the the written manual instructions version
01:32:15
of how you get something done but I get [ __ ] done and I get it done well and yeah if someone's very process driven
01:32:21
and it's like you've got to tick this box in this box in this box yeah maybe
01:32:25
it maybe it Ruffles a few feathers uh yeah I think it's just not the Kiwi way to
01:32:30
sort of vocalize it and one thing I found doing this podcast for like the last I don't know almost a year and a
01:32:34
half now there's been um actually quite a few people that have messaged me like wanting to come on the
01:32:40
podcast and the first time it happened I was like um I was like [ __ ] that's a bit
01:32:44
or you know rate yourself a little bit arrogant and the more it happens I realize I'm the problem here not them
01:32:50
and the last time this happened was a couple of weeks ago with a guy called um Marcus Daniel who's uh one of New
01:32:55
Zealand space tennis players one one of bronze at the last Olympic Games oh I [ __ ] respect it now because it's
01:33:01
it's the Kiwi way just to sit back and go oh no someone will ask me if they want me but you've got to put yourself
01:33:06
[ __ ] forward and I think it's a hangover from like call it what you want tall puppy syndrome crabs in a bucket
01:33:12
whatever but it's like I I fully respect that bro no I I think New Zealand is
01:33:16
terrible for tall poppy syndrome yeah and where that stems from is a famine mentality like we are a tiny little
01:33:24
island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean we're far from everything there's
01:33:28
not a hell of a lot of dollars in our economy and yeah traditionally there hasn't been much and so in a feminine
01:33:34
mentality for you to have more that automatically means that I've got to have less and so tall poppy syndrome is
01:33:42
basically people seeing someone who is achieving more and then and then trying to drag them down back back to the level
01:33:49
because it's like [ __ ] [ __ ] you for doing well because it because it's wrong
01:33:53
in me and and that's the mentality that we need to get out of New Zealand it's
01:33:57
like absolutely not like if you're succeeding great because that means I can succeed too and so that's that's
01:34:03
essentially where we need to get to so um well good on you yeah please don't
01:34:09
change that I don't think you will but yeah just don't don't get scarred or burnt or fatigued
01:34:14
by people I'm I'm past giving a [ __ ] what people think [ __ ] I love that how good do you think
01:34:21
part of that comes from the time you spent in America you know Americans are very very good at
01:34:26
selling themselves and pulling you know you know what I mean or the American way
01:34:30
than our way yeah I mean like in part yes I mean there's probably no one single answer to that question what I
01:34:37
would say is like I moved to America in 2016 and and essentially I burnt the boats I I quit my job and it was like a
01:34:46
pretty pretty solid career pathway like I've got a background in agriculture and
01:34:50
I've got like an undergrad and a post-grad degree there I was in this agricultural role
01:34:57
with a with a good defined line and I was bored of it and I was like [ __ ] [ __ ]
01:35:01
this so I canvas the US through Facebook found different rugby clubs and teams and universities and I
01:35:09
basically sold myself as this hot shot America kiwi rugby player that could that could that could teach them teach
01:35:16
them yeah the New Zealand ways and I was playing some pretty damn good foot senior footy at that time and
01:35:22
yeah found a club quit my job bought a plane ticket over to the US and yeah basically Built My Own Niche so
01:35:31
like 2016 is a very important year for me it's it's the year that I I backed
01:35:37
myself I don't really care about like the standard life or what was expected
01:35:43
of me here in New Zealand and I just got after it and backing myself and not caring what other
01:35:50
people thought was pretty pivotal and basically everything that's come after
01:35:53
that it's like like you you've got that magic bro so just just run with it like if you feel
01:36:01
something's on just do it because it probably is and that's what's led me to being where I am
01:36:06
now I love it that's probably a good way to end it oh no there was one more thing
01:36:10
I wanted to bring up with you um sorry we've gone on for way longer than what I
01:36:14
thought um it's almost you could you could have done two laps in this time or three
01:36:20
um you've recently um quit your job like you're managing to make a living out of
01:36:24
what you love now which is congratulations yeah so what was your job so I was uh I was Raising capital
01:36:32
for uh for a property developer okay here in Auckland it's boring it's boring
01:36:37
sucky and like I don't know just like people just ah bad energy man like I've
01:36:42
been putting up with it for like like a year I've been putting up with [ __ ]
01:36:47
[ __ ] and like there's this ethos or way of thinking that I've been kind of
01:36:53
playing on for the last couple months yeah last few months and it's like be about your thing
01:37:00
like like put all your energy into that thing that lights you on fire and and make that your life because you can do
01:37:08
that and you don't have to fit into someone else's Square shaped box and
01:37:15
I mean at the end of the day this world's big enough that if you if you work hard enough at any one
01:37:23
single thing you'll get really good at it and someone's probably gonna pay you for
01:37:28
it so why waste time doing some other [ __ ] so yeah I quit my job like six weeks ago and I
01:37:38
could not be more happy it just allowed me to kind of put my head down and like focus on
01:37:43
focus on getting get my head straight get my body ready for um for the world record attempt
01:37:50
and uh and then obviously the the race after that and then the race after that like I
01:37:56
finished the race and I've had it I've had a phone call my team's had a phone
01:37:59
call basically saying like there's someone that believes in you who's been
01:38:04
following you for a while and they want to they want to support you to chase your dreams and who is that so not
01:38:15
a not a brand or a company not uh yeah like a company slash a family you want to play do you wanna do they want to
01:38:21
plug I suppose what I'm asking is um uh I mean anyone that does anything like
01:38:25
this it's really [ __ ] cool because it allows you to focus on your training and
01:38:28
you know give up your nine to five um I mean if they want privacy or they don't want to mention that's fine as
01:38:32
well but if if it's a brand or a company that needs exposure then yeah definitely
01:38:36
I mean so I'm yet to kind of sign the contract but but all the kind of the parameters there have been put forward
01:38:43
to me and it's it's pretty pretty damn agreeable to the point where I basically
01:38:47
said to my wife on Wednesday I was like go on going to work today and quit your job like we're moving home to
01:38:53
Christchurch I'm going to run and like life life's about to just pop off
01:38:59
amazing so so you get a salary and they just pay for your expenses flights entries yeah and then I've got like I've
01:39:06
got other sponsors who are also supporting me at the moment so if I can if I can basically tick off one more uh
01:39:13
sponsor to kind of fill the void then I am I'm a One-Stop shop for the next few
01:39:17
years on on the running front which allows me to be the best runner I can be which
01:39:23
possibly then and my Niche becomes the best runner in the world I get to focus on
01:39:30
coaching and mentoring all the people around me and and all of these uh public speaking gigs that have now presented
01:39:36
themselves to me and basically just shining my light on on anyone who who will Who will look and see it and just
01:39:44
doing some amazing [ __ ] in the world which I'm just like I'm I'm beaming about man yeah man I I can't
01:39:52
wait to see what the next I don't know five years ten years um brings for you yeah you could be a
01:39:57
guy that transcends the sport and sort of brings it into the mainstream yeah well I think that's the beauty of uh of
01:40:03
the backyard is like you are if you if you do get to go deep if you do get to push actually push
01:40:09
yourself you are transcending yourself each time and that's amazing it's not
01:40:14
it's not comfortable in the moment but what it does to your mind like you find that the other side of the darkness
01:40:21
it's it's amazing and yeah if I can be at the Forefront of bringing bringing
01:40:27
the sport into not such a niche area but being being very mainstream and yeah that's that's
01:40:34
pretty wild and it's a bit of a gift well I'm pleased I got you on my podcast
01:40:38
before you're too big um you'll be doing like Rich Roll and Rogan before you know it yeah that'd be
01:40:43
pretty pretty close yeah how good all right hey Sam Harvey uh congratulations on everything and uh so when's the next
01:40:50
one world Champs October yeah October and Tennessee so I've told everybody that I'll uh actually take a little bit
01:40:56
of time off after after this last race and recover and stuff but yeah nothing nothing on the schedule until the 21st
01:41:03
of October which is a world championship I'll probably put a race or two just
01:41:06
like a little short 50k or something in in between then just to like keep me happy yeah but yeah like just just
01:41:12
recover Train move back to Christchurch get everything sorted and then you head on
01:41:19
over the us and we're gonna do like a month in the US instead of just doing like a little piddly holiday like we're
01:41:23
gonna do a a whole month in the U.S and then like a good lead into into the race and then
01:41:29
just absolutely Lop that thing's head head off okay so just so we can um like
01:41:34
time stamp this interview so this is a Friday July 7 July to August August so it's three months away how many hours
01:41:40
you reckon you're definitely going to win it doesn't matter how many hours
01:41:44
I think 150 at least hours over over a thousand kilometers so six days yeah and what over what over a
01:41:53
thousand over a thousand kilometers of essentially non-stop running or never resting for more than like 10 or 15
01:42:00
minutes does it make you feel nervous saying that out loud excites the hell out of me bro like
01:42:08
we're we're at the Forefront of like human evolution in this like nobody
01:42:14
nobody's ever done this before we get to be the first and then all of a sudden
01:42:19
this is the next expanse of human perception like like nobody thought anyone could break the four minute mile
01:42:26
and then Roger Bannister yeah smash the four minute well and now everyone's doing it and now tens of thousands of
01:42:31
people have done it so like the same as climbing Everest Hillary did it and now there's now
01:42:37
there's rubbish up there exactly so yeah this is this is it's pretty cool to be
01:42:42
at the Forefront that's a bit of a gift and if you die in one of these events where people say
01:42:47
that he died doing what he loved yeah find the thing you love and let it kill you
01:42:52
unreal Sam Harvey thank you so much for coming on the podcast man and good luck for everything in the future cheer
01:42:57
brother it's been a pleasure hey [Music] this is fast paced slow and steady anyway you
01:43:08
coming just wanna connect for everyone who loves running this is [Music] fast paced slow and steady anyway you
01:43:21
coming just wanna connect for everyone who loves running hey Runners only with dom Harvey
01:43:28
[Music]