00:00:00
so we had a dinner where me and freeberg
00:00:02
and J Cal were invited to have dinner
00:00:04
with the folks from and their and their
00:00:06
other top podcast off the Record dinner
00:00:08
let's talk all about it there was an
00:00:10
interesting moment which even Friedberg
00:00:12
had to recognize which was we went
00:00:14
around and said hey what what podcast
00:00:15
you listening to which ones are your
00:00:16
favorites we went out in the room and I
00:00:19
gotta tell you you know what your
00:00:20
podcaster favorite podcast is bingo
00:00:23
Allin podcast well the funniest thing is
00:00:25
my wife thinks I'm bullshitting all the
00:00:27
time I say this is a mine too pretty
00:00:29
reasonably success F and well she
00:00:30
doesn't believe it she thinks we're all
00:00:32
why do you think I waited to
00:00:34
make my world podcast premiere for Allin
00:00:36
all the ankle biters called and I said
00:00:38
no I'm just going to wait I'm wait to
00:00:40
the bestie's
00:00:42
call can we just say it Nick you got to
00:00:44
it up when podcast called you're like
00:00:47
nope can't do it waiting sry I'm waiting
00:00:49
for the real deal I don't need
00:00:54
JV let your winners
00:00:56
ride Rainman David
00:01:02
and instead we open source it to the
00:01:03
fans and they've just gone crazy with it
00:01:05
love queen
00:01:09
of all right everybody welcome back to
00:01:11
the number one business finance
00:01:13
technology science podcast in the world
00:01:16
this is the place where we call balls
00:01:19
and Strikes where we tell the truth
00:01:21
where there is zero
00:01:23
censorship every week we tell you about
00:01:27
the truth behind the most important
00:01:29
stories we point out who the heroes are
00:01:31
and who the villains are who are the
00:01:34
delightful ones and who are the disra
00:01:36
with me again on this week's program the
00:01:40
cackling chairman dictator my guy mouth
00:01:44
poly Hoppa how you doing how was your
00:01:46
Victory La how was your Victory really
00:01:48
really really fun you look like you were
00:01:51
in your Afterglow and I have to say that
00:01:55
was looking pretty good uh we have some
00:01:57
pictures don't worry we're going to go
00:01:58
through behind the scenes
00:02:00
Armani came through for Amore the amort
00:02:04
collection from Armani coming this fall
00:02:06
by the way I mean Armani Couture is like
00:02:08
firing on all cylinders the the other
00:02:10
the other one which you'll see is a
00:02:12
great picture of this incredible jacket
00:02:14
Louisa beia two shout outs Armani and
00:02:17
Louisa bear you know I was just thinking
00:02:19
that Armani really has been making it
00:02:21
happen now that we've talked about that
00:02:22
we'll talk about my wardrobe when the
00:02:24
time comes just get through the rest of
00:02:25
the interest all right all right and of
00:02:28
course here is your Sultan of
00:02:32
science David Friedberg Move Along J
00:02:35
let's go let's go had a wonderful he's
00:02:38
very bitter today he's got a lot of
00:02:40
anger he is the Barista of bitterness
00:02:42
today he's serving up bitterness all day
00:02:45
long and he had a great time at the um
00:02:47
maybe he's a little upset about the Lex
00:02:49
fredman triangle we're in right now I
00:02:51
think that could be part of it and we
00:02:53
have a special guest
00:02:55
here Thomas leant is the co-founder of
00:02:59
kou management they got a 50 Billy under
00:03:03
management uh public private yada yada
00:03:07
before that he worked at creative artist
00:03:09
Agency for seven years after he he went
00:03:11
to college so he does have the college
00:03:13
degree he signed Captain
00:03:16
America which is freeberg favorite
00:03:18
avenger Chris evris Evans Chris EV and
00:03:21
um Hasa client by the way yes and you're
00:03:25
still in touch with him I am not you're
00:03:28
not but I watched with Wonder at uh what
00:03:31
he's achieved after I left being his
00:03:34
agent it's been incredible great career
00:03:36
now now behind you we see this
00:03:38
incredible uh you're missing the one
00:03:41
you're missing the one part which is
00:03:42
that Thomas was one of the highest rated
00:03:44
speakers that we had at the all in
00:03:46
Summit yeah that's true actually he did
00:03:48
really great last year really crushed it
00:03:49
crushed it crushed it of course and I
00:03:51
think I'm I'm in the seventh best de
00:03:53
position and and hoping potentially
00:03:55
after the podcast to at least move up by
00:03:57
one okay so there you go let's see what
00:03:59
happens here now what what's this view
00:04:01
behind you this is uh Los Angel
00:04:03
definitely put you ahead of jcal Thomas
00:04:05
so you're wow you're up a spot my God he
00:04:08
really is serving up the bitterness
00:04:10
today
00:04:11
yeah so mad he's soad you know why you
00:04:14
know why he's mad I'll tell you why
00:04:17
because
00:04:19
okay this is for the audience Jason is
00:04:22
complaining all week in the group chat
00:04:24
that he has influenza A he's sending
00:04:27
pictures of him getting IVs and so
00:04:29
freeberg the
00:04:30
conscientious guy and co-founder of the
00:04:33
Pod that he is says I will moderate and
00:04:36
then he invests his time okay he's got
00:04:40
he's got a lot of things going on he's
00:04:41
got do three kids plus one on he's
00:04:44
running a company strawberries he
00:04:47
prepares and then you wake up after a
00:04:50
dose of Tamiflu and decide no I'm ready
00:04:52
to moderate of course and you can't just
00:04:55
do that because it's not nice all right
00:04:57
put hey Madame producer can you come on
00:05:00
the horn for a second here are we really
00:05:02
gonna do this yes we are we're gonna do
00:05:04
it we're doing it Madam this is so
00:05:06
stupid so
00:05:08
stupidy did I tell you to get freeberg
00:05:12
involved no no I did it myself okay you
00:05:15
went rogue can I say why you can go
00:05:18
Rogue I'm fine I said hey Jason how are
00:05:20
you feeling you said horrible I have the
00:05:22
flu I'm getting an IV tomorrow morning
00:05:24
to me that was like oh okay there's like
00:05:26
a 50% chance he misses the show so I
00:05:29
reached sh to freeberg I said hey
00:05:30
Jason's really sick with the flu maybe
00:05:32
you should just prepare yourself to
00:05:34
moderate tomorrow okay now when did I
00:05:37
find out about this when did I I think
00:05:39
that was a smart decision but you sir
00:05:40
are a small bitter man and so what you
00:05:43
did was you wanted to just yeah you
00:05:45
wanted to blow up free Brook's
00:05:46
preparation I found out about this this
00:05:48
morning I found out about this like an
00:05:49
hour ago how are you feeling I feel 80%
00:05:54
of a normal jcal which is 110% of any
00:05:57
other moderator I me get yourself Andrew
00:05:58
rorin I'm sorry he's genu flecting at
00:06:01
Davos to a bunch of
00:06:03
mids well we're going to get lexon so
00:06:06
we're going to get Lex oh that would be
00:06:08
great hello I am Lex fredman welcome to
00:06:12
the number one podcast in the world
00:06:15
today on the program we have Thomas
00:06:17
lefon investor in such great companies
00:06:20
as all right listen enough Shenanigans
00:06:22
we had so much fun we tore DC apart
00:06:25
let's start with actually just Thomas
00:06:27
did you watch any of it on TV did you
00:06:30
think about going it was really like um
00:06:33
there was so many tech people in
00:06:35
Washington this weekend I saw the live
00:06:37
stream I talked to saaks last night to
00:06:39
get get the download and you know my
00:06:42
takeaway just from watching especially
00:06:44
the executive orders was you know
00:06:46
democracy in action democracy
00:06:49
self-correct yeah and dictatorships
00:06:51
double down and to watch in real time a
00:06:54
country of our scale and a democracy you
00:06:57
know decide to make a change
00:06:59
I think that's why we've been great for
00:07:02
you know 250 plus years and will remain
00:07:04
great so it was fun to watch I'm really
00:07:07
curious to see what your takeaway was
00:07:09
okay well let's just we'll just go
00:07:11
behind the scenes first of all it's hard
00:07:13
to see that this was me dressed up for
00:07:15
Sax's ball I really brought the Heat
00:07:17
this is by the way Luca rubac is the
00:07:19
tailor here it's hard to see is blue Co
00:07:24
so this is what I'm saying I think the
00:07:26
picture is very hard to see but it's a
00:07:27
very refined green pap gley
00:07:31
o subtle hard to bring it out now I will
00:07:35
say this was the most popular shirt over
00:07:37
the entire weekend this is just a simple
00:07:39
Bion tuxedo shirt it was 200 versions of
00:07:43
it I felt bad when I saw because
00:07:45
normally I don't like to wear things
00:07:46
that other people are wearing correct
00:07:48
yeah what did Michael salor think of
00:07:50
this when you saw Michael salor at the
00:07:51
um at the you know I met I met Michael
00:07:54
CFO wonderfully nice guy so this is us
00:07:57
at the this is us at the crypto ball I
00:07:59
went for white tuxedo on the first night
00:08:01
I've never had three tuxedos before but
00:08:04
David looked David looked really great I
00:08:05
really love and saaks had this
00:08:08
incredible tux which was more crypto
00:08:10
themed it sort of looked like the
00:08:12
opening scene from The Matrix so there
00:08:14
was like this cool print you can see my
00:08:16
green in there a little bit Thomas in
00:08:17
this okay yeah yeah got it there's sky
00:08:21
and new money Sunny the president of
00:08:23
grock suep madra
00:08:26
x.com here the besties here the besties
00:08:29
I was
00:08:29
let's be honest guys even in all your
00:08:31
bitterness freeberg you felt the love at
00:08:33
this moment when we were all back
00:08:35
together did you not well minutes before
00:08:38
this when the three of us took a a video
00:08:39
a photo it was great yeah yeah okay
00:08:42
great so bit let you moderate you can
00:08:46
moderate if you want if you're that BR
00:08:48
you're doing a great job j keep we're 18
00:08:51
minutes into this and we're doing
00:08:52
fashion still Vin Sky Diego berkin the
00:08:55
co-founder of cloud kitchens so handsome
00:08:58
that
00:09:00
this was the crypto ball yeah this was
00:09:02
the crypto ball this was like this was
00:09:04
Sox's event it was
00:09:05
incredible it was a large number of
00:09:09
people there I was shocked at the number
00:09:11
of people at the crypto oh it was it was
00:09:13
huge hug here's a little poker after
00:09:16
behind the scenes with
00:09:18
pink TK Travis Clinic the co-founder the
00:09:22
founder of uber oh look that's on we got
00:09:24
to see who who's got the biggest stack
00:09:26
look it's the founder of uber next to
00:09:28
the third investor Uber uh and the
00:09:31
founder of cloud kitchens next to the
00:09:34
investor in Cloud kit Peter Teal's house
00:09:36
this is Katie Han and Kyle
00:09:38
Sani my wife and's wife amore amore this
00:09:43
is at Peter's house Peter had this Peter
00:09:44
te had this person going around taking
00:09:47
pictures this not good lighting for
00:09:49
you there better oh this was great also
00:09:53
Peter Teal's house yeah that was great I
00:09:56
have to say shth putting aside Jason
00:09:59
likes being a republican here's a here's
00:10:01
a here's a dinner that we had there's
00:10:03
Lex fredman Julius Janikowski who's the
00:10:06
former chairman of the FCC little known
00:10:08
the uh former uh former roommate of
00:10:11
Obama by the way following this dinner
00:10:13
all those streets were blocked off and
00:10:15
there was no way to get around you see
00:10:17
it there look you see the it was like 10
00:10:20
degrees Fen so we walk out yes it's
00:10:22
terrible it was like you were going to
00:10:24
die after two seconds out there it was C
00:10:28
start walking to try get our car and
00:10:31
after walking for like half a mile we're
00:10:33
like dude there's no way out of this
00:10:34
downtown area and Vinnie was shaking
00:10:36
he's like I'm going to die I'm going to
00:10:37
die I'm gonna die he turns around he
00:10:38
goes running back to the restaurant
00:10:40
jumps in and basically like huddles down
00:10:44
in the restaurant and then after about
00:10:45
10 minutes there's no way out he's like
00:10:47
you know it's sort of like you're in a
00:10:48
military zone he's like I'm gonna go for
00:10:50
it he runs out jumps on a scooter and he
00:10:52
disappeared into the distance and I
00:10:53
swore I would never see Vinnie again I'm
00:10:55
like that's it I think it's very smart
00:10:57
that Lex wears the same outfit the black
00:11:00
suit with the white shirt with the black
00:11:01
tie I really like the the consistency of
00:11:03
it actually it looks really he this is
00:11:05
it was incredible he was getting stopped
00:11:07
here here's every two minutes it was
00:11:10
unbelievable here's the jacket this is
00:11:12
Louisa beia and then here's the box from
00:11:14
Armani thank you unboxing whoa wah wa
00:11:18
wewa oh look there's a little side boob
00:11:21
there with that I didn't notice
00:11:23
that that's uh this is I'm wearing Tom
00:11:26
Ford shout out Tom Ford shout out
00:11:29
perfect mail for oh here's a huge shout
00:11:32
out to two guys that I had really wanted
00:11:34
to meet in person I finally got the
00:11:35
chance to meet this is at zuck's party
00:11:37
this is Brendan Carr who's the incoming
00:11:39
chairman of the FCC actually this
00:11:41
picture was taken right after he had
00:11:44
gotten confirmed so this was his first
00:11:47
day as the chairman and then this is a
00:11:49
guy who I've been following for a couple
00:11:50
of years Jared isman who is now going to
00:11:53
run NASA he's the founder and CEO of
00:11:55
shift for payments but both of these
00:11:58
guys are pretty epic you should should
00:11:59
follow them on Twitter he did a space
00:12:01
walk the first civilian Space Walk he
00:12:02
did he's he's he's really really Bron
00:12:05
was really nice I met him at Peter's uh
00:12:07
event and he told me he's a big fan of
00:12:09
the Pod he listens to show every amazing
00:12:10
I mean by the way if you want to see
00:12:12
like some really amazing tweets he had
00:12:14
some real bangers he's a very smart guy
00:12:17
he's um I've had Brendan on this week St
00:12:21
a couple times he's the guy who
00:12:23
fought for Starling that's right over
00:12:28
wasting five
00:12:30
$20,000 per home to install Broadband I
00:12:34
mean this guy's a hero uh and and he did
00:12:36
that when he was in office under Biden
00:12:38
and all that crazy corruption and grift
00:12:41
this is a picture of Mike Johnson and
00:12:43
his wife it this is a crazy story so
00:12:46
there was a G7 Summit in Italy and Mike
00:12:50
and his wife had was seated beside my
00:12:52
father-in-law Nat's dad at a dinner they
00:12:55
got to know each other he as a proud
00:12:58
grandpa showed Mike and his wife
00:13:00
pictures of natad and myself and our
00:13:02
kids and how we actually met in this
00:13:04
moment was his wife was like oh my God I
00:13:07
recognize you you're Sergio's son-in-law
00:13:09
you're Sergio's daughter it's amazing
00:13:12
and then we had a cool conversation so
00:13:14
that was cool and then this is Bill py
00:13:16
who is nominated to run fhfa which for
00:13:20
folks that know will be in control of
00:13:22
the conservatorship of Fanny May and
00:13:25
Freddy Mack and really great guy also a
00:13:28
co-investor with with me in Mr
00:13:30
Beast
00:13:32
not oh you're an investor in Mr Beast
00:13:34
there you go this is Mr I did the series
00:13:36
a this is the first time I think you've
00:13:38
said the here's this thing so this is
00:13:40
where jcal is at his Peak go ahead just
00:13:43
play I don't even know what this is go
00:13:45
what what is that what did you order all
00:13:47
right um I've given it some
00:13:49
thought and I'm going to order the
00:13:52
$95 do
00:13:54
Soul the $95 D soul
00:14:00
your tips included in I
00:14:04
mean we were just having such a great
00:14:07
time uh tearing it up I did order the
00:14:10
$95 do this is a oh sorry oh that's
00:14:13
that's me and Bobby Kennedy but this is
00:14:14
a this is walking into the capital for
00:14:17
the inauguration oh wow so you basically
00:14:19
you have to get off all these buses were
00:14:21
taking us in because of the security and
00:14:24
then you walk underneath and underground
00:14:26
to get into the and this is Bobby and
00:14:29
the guy right there c means another
00:14:31
great American make America healthy
00:14:33
again all right here's a couple of my
00:14:34
picks this is um me with somebody who's
00:14:38
going to be in the administration I'm
00:14:39
not big on politics but um telsey gabard
00:14:42
is Gab she's so strong she went she came
00:14:45
to our party this is the picture of our
00:14:47
party she is incredible well she came up
00:14:49
to me and she you know you can always
00:14:51
tell who a real fan is and she up I just
00:14:54
want to tell you J C I am a huge fan of
00:14:56
the Pod I love what you do I love the
00:14:59
you know balance should bring to the
00:14:59
program she really liked new details
00:15:01
about the podcast and so I wanted to get
00:15:04
a picture with her so as a joke I said
00:15:06
to her do you want to take a selfie I
00:15:09
said I'm okay with the selfie she goes I
00:15:10
was going to ask I was like no I'm
00:15:11
preemptively asking we took it together
00:15:14
funar she I think she's gonna be great I
00:15:16
like her a lot she's such a star oh well
00:15:20
yeah this is hello I am Lex Freedman
00:15:23
today with love and peace in my heart I
00:15:26
am interviewing dictator ID Amin who has
00:15:29
eaten half of his enemies we will share
00:15:31
love kindness and a fatty liver
00:15:36
enjoy so yeah that was us just tearing
00:15:38
it up after the YouTube party where we
00:15:40
hung out with Sundar and Neil from
00:15:44
YouTube they've been very good to us and
00:15:46
then here's one more I guess one more
00:15:48
and golfer Bryson dambo oh there's me
00:15:51
and the uh Presidente uh Twitter and
00:15:55
yeah this is the podcast crew at the
00:15:57
Free Press party okay let's talk about
00:15:59
key takeaways Chamas what is your big
00:16:02
takeaway from the weekend I think my
00:16:04
biggest takeaway is
00:16:07
that if you look in the
00:16:09
past there was a very tight coordination
00:16:13
I guess I would say between Private
00:16:17
Industry and the private sector and the
00:16:18
public sector meaning the president and
00:16:22
then people who were in charge of
00:16:25
managing huge vast swats of resources in
00:16:28
America and somewhere along the way that
00:16:31
became either unfashionable and uncool
00:16:35
particularly under
00:16:37
Democrats and what I saw was a very
00:16:41
broad-based
00:16:43
Embrace of business people because I
00:16:46
think that the president understands how
00:16:48
important it is to make sure that
00:16:50
economically America is just firing on
00:16:52
all cylinders the one thing to remember
00:16:54
like for example in the inauguration I
00:16:56
know that you saw the picture and it was
00:16:58
basically like
00:16:59
meta Google Apple Amazon Tesla kind of
00:17:03
CEOs Etc Founders Arno was there mukash
00:17:07
Amani was there so it's just business
00:17:09
people from the entire world were there
00:17:12
and so I think what it says is America's
00:17:15
G to basically turn a totally new page
00:17:17
we're not going to ostracize people
00:17:19
we're not going to play favorites that's
00:17:21
the other thing you know Elon was there
00:17:23
right at the beginning but if you saw
00:17:25
all the CEOs of the you know major
00:17:28
companies were there it's not like he
00:17:29
excluded Zuck because of his past issues
00:17:31
or anything or Sam Alman or Sam Alman
00:17:35
that was the biggest more notable one
00:17:37
yeah to exclude yeah that that the
00:17:40
president doesn't play favorites that
00:17:42
this is like Team America kind of thing
00:17:45
and it was a projection of tremendous
00:17:46
power to the rest of the world this is
00:17:48
what America is about I loved every
00:17:50
minute of it and I think that this is
00:17:53
exactly how the American government
00:17:55
should be working which is hand inand
00:17:56
with Private Industry to basically set
00:17:59
the pace for the rest of the world Thom
00:18:01
did you have a takeway after the weekend
00:18:04
I did I'm curious what you guys thought
00:18:06
but to me what was notable from Scott
00:18:09
Besson the new treasury secretary he was
00:18:12
asked in one of the exchanges about the
00:18:15
green Energy race with China and he
00:18:18
reframed the debate I thought incredibly
00:18:20
well where he said we're not in a green
00:18:22
Energy race with China we're in an
00:18:23
energy race with China that's right
00:18:26
right and he made the point that China
00:18:27
is adding 100 coal plants it's adding
00:18:30
nuclear and to me it was kind of just
00:18:33
137 gwatt Hydro facility which is
00:18:37
exactly unbelievable and it was such a
00:18:39
good framing of the debate because I
00:18:41
think chamath to your point it's about
00:18:43
reframing the right issues right and I
00:18:46
think that just that little piece of
00:18:47
dialogue to me is exemplified you know
00:18:50
and was a really important takeaway and
00:18:52
I think more of what we'll see over the
00:18:54
next coming year freeberg did you have a
00:18:55
takeaway coming out of this there was
00:18:57
just so much it was so impressive to be
00:18:59
there I definitely Echo the sentiment
00:19:01
about seeing the strength of America
00:19:04
represented between the entrepreneurial
00:19:07
engine that has driven this country for
00:19:09
250 years and the government that's
00:19:12
meant to serve the people working
00:19:14
together to try and take America forward
00:19:16
it was just really inspiring um the one
00:19:19
thing that was the biggest kind of
00:19:21
observation for me which was a bit of a
00:19:22
disappointment unfortunately is I feel
00:19:25
like Doge and cost cutting
00:19:29
is going to be a lot harder to realize
00:19:31
than folks assume uh nearly everyone I
00:19:34
met with who works in government or is
00:19:37
entering
00:19:38
government had this if not disdain for
00:19:42
Doge a concern that it doesn't really
00:19:46
align interests with the political
00:19:48
objectives of politicians that they need
00:19:51
to get more stuff for their constituents
00:19:53
in order to get reelected and that
00:19:54
they're not going to vote programs away
00:19:56
they're not going to vote themselves out
00:19:57
of a job which is effectively what they
00:19:59
would do if they cut programs in fact I
00:20:01
was watching Brook
00:20:03
Roland's secretary a confirmation
00:20:05
hearing this morning and Mitchell
00:20:08
Connell was given the opportunity to ask
00:20:10
her questions you know what his question
00:20:12
was he said in the last farm bill I was
00:20:15
able to get $60 million to build an a
00:20:17
research lab at the University Kentucky
00:20:19
and it hasn't started being built yet
00:20:21
it's been four years what are you going
00:20:22
to do about that this is literally the
00:20:25
intention of so many of these
00:20:27
conversations if you sit and watch and
00:20:28
then I watched a similar conversation
00:20:30
with a senator from Minnesota who you
00:20:33
know I I won't get into all the the
00:20:34
statements but every single conversation
00:20:37
you hear and we even talked with Ted
00:20:39
Cruz about this is all about great by
00:20:41
the way I love Ted Cruz it's all about
00:20:44
excellent It's all about what can I get
00:20:46
for my constituents how do I get more
00:20:48
jobs and how do I get more money and
00:20:51
ultimately that incentive is what gets
00:20:53
people elected and I don't think it's
00:20:55
going to change and so that was the
00:20:57
biggest kind of shock for me I thought
00:20:59
that there was a moment of the
00:21:00
importance of cost cutting the
00:21:01
importance of deficit reduction the
00:21:02
importance of debt reduction and I was
00:21:05
just a little saddened to kind of see
00:21:07
that that there's no stop in the train
00:21:10
so that was my takeaway it's a little
00:21:11
bit bitter I hope I'm wrong I really do
00:21:13
hope doge is effective and I really do
00:21:15
hope that policy makers start to
00:21:17
recognize the importance by the way R
00:21:19
Doo has a new book coming out we'll talk
00:21:21
more about his book once it's released
00:21:23
publicly but it speaks very clearly to
00:21:25
the challenge the United States is now
00:21:27
facing with respect to spending so I
00:21:29
know I've talked about this I know we
00:21:30
all felt like there was a big reprieve
00:21:31
with this election but for me it was a
00:21:33
little bit Bittersweet can I I say a
00:21:34
little bit on that first topic that I I
00:21:37
just want to double down on that because
00:21:39
one of the things that some folks said
00:21:42
and I guess it makes sense now that you
00:21:43
think about it but when you look at the
00:21:45
confirmation hearings there are certain
00:21:46
folks For Whom the resource allocation
00:21:49
is relatively modest inside of America
00:21:52
they tend to just do much better in
00:21:54
general and if you saw Marco Rubio's
00:21:56
confirmation process there was you know
00:21:58
it was like 99 to zero right and to your
00:22:02
point what what they say is that folks
00:22:04
that actually allocate the internal
00:22:06
spending in the United States gets a lot
00:22:09
more scrutiny because there's all of
00:22:11
this horse trading because they want
00:22:13
some of this money to get allocated into
00:22:15
their specific area it is going to be a
00:22:19
very complicated thing the the one thing
00:22:20
though that changed I don't know if you
00:22:22
saw but Doge was meant to be outside the
00:22:26
offices of the government and it wasn't
00:22:29
actually a government department and
00:22:32
it'll be interesting to understand when
00:22:34
it's explained but in the 11th Hour the
00:22:36
EO that established Doge established it
00:22:39
actually as a governmental agency yeah
00:22:41
we're going to get into that uh in just
00:22:42
a moment and um you know to build on
00:22:44
your point there Dave Senator Sanders uh
00:22:48
had a tweet today Nick I just sent it to
00:22:49
you already the discussion of like who
00:22:51
should take the brunt of these Cuts is
00:22:54
starting to happen and he's pointing out
00:22:57
you know as he should and you know hey
00:22:59
what's going to happen with the VA and
00:23:00
you're you're putting a freeze on hiring
00:23:02
people we have to make sure our vets are
00:23:04
taken care of we have a shortage of
00:23:05
doctors a short of of nurses but we do
00:23:08
have people you know responding to him
00:23:10
saying hey how are we going to pay for
00:23:11
all this so even if it's going to be
00:23:13
hard to do it's going to take courage
00:23:15
because you're going to be faced with
00:23:17
situations like this where does anybody
00:23:20
want to see va's budget cut and these
00:23:22
veterans who are coming back they should
00:23:24
get all the services in the world and
00:23:26
these hard discussions are now happening
00:23:28
and it's not taboo so the Overton
00:23:30
Windows wide open now to discuss even
00:23:33
the budget of the VA and where is the
00:23:34
money going to come from so I think
00:23:36
we're actually going to make progress on
00:23:38
it the this was like a sacred cow and
00:23:40
now we're we're talking about it uh to
00:23:42
the to Bernie Sanders point I don't know
00:23:44
if you saw there was a note on there
00:23:45
Nick community notes pointed out that
00:23:49
Trump put that none of the cuts should
00:23:51
impact vets and so I thought that was um
00:23:54
a good use of community notes there the
00:23:56
one comment I'll say about burn Bernie
00:23:58
Sanders is when Russ vote who is the
00:24:01
nominee to run om went through his
00:24:04
confirmation
00:24:07
yesterday Sanders asked a similar
00:24:09
question around Medicare and Medicaid
00:24:11
and what was interesting is Russ tried
00:24:13
to actually answer the question and give
00:24:16
the details around where they can be
00:24:19
waste Fraud and Abuse Sanders really
00:24:21
didn't want to hear it he just wanted a
00:24:22
sound bite so I think these confirmation
00:24:26
processes are
00:24:29
performative they're hugely performative
00:24:32
yes I do think that and this applies I
00:24:34
think to both sides Democrats as well
00:24:36
when when they are eventually in power I
00:24:39
think that when you're given a very
00:24:41
clear mandate as a president I think you
00:24:43
should be able to get to pick your
00:24:45
team because it's clear that the
00:24:47
American people have voted an agenda
00:24:49
it's not like he hid that agenda and so
00:24:51
the people that then want to implement
00:24:53
that agenda should be put on the field
00:24:55
it seems like the point of these should
00:24:56
be if somebody could get compromised or
00:24:59
there was something really gnarly in
00:25:00
their background like but otherwise yeah
00:25:03
let people build their team and then
00:25:04
they have to own their results tell us
00:25:06
about your feelings and takeaways about
00:25:09
the weekend well you know it's obviously
00:25:10
mixed I was a never Trumper and uh now
00:25:13
I'm rooting for him wholeheartedly to do
00:25:15
great
00:25:16
work hon you kind of like him come on
00:25:19
you do kind of like anybody who met
00:25:22
anybody who interacted with Trump before
00:25:25
you go your diet tribe just say it just
00:25:26
say you like him there are aspects I
00:25:29
like about the platform I like probably
00:25:30
80% of the platform and I will tell you
00:25:33
today that 20% I don't like I'm always
00:25:34
gonna call balls and Strikes but you you
00:25:37
kind of like him just say you kind of
00:25:38
like him you do like him I like 80% of
00:25:41
his platform this time around him him as
00:25:43
a person you know I there's things I
00:25:45
really don't like and I'll talk about
00:25:47
them today but anyway let's put inside
00:25:49
the the personal thing doesn't matter
00:25:51
what matters is what he does for the
00:25:52
American people and like you I know you
00:25:54
can't say it yet but they're deep down
00:25:56
inside you like Jak to be there you had
00:26:00
I have to say I had a lot of
00:26:03
fun Republicans are fun I will say
00:26:07
Republicans are fun fashion was off the
00:26:09
hook off the hook lot of great fashion
00:26:11
and it was great America beautiful again
00:26:13
my gosh I mean listen I no more jogging
00:26:16
pants and and white get rid of it
00:26:18
Burn It To The Ground B what I'll say my
00:26:21
takeaway was you know as somebody who
00:26:24
had concerns and you know I'm just I'm
00:26:25
not going to make the show about me but
00:26:27
the
00:26:28
important thing for me is who is Trump
00:26:32
going to lead with this time around is
00:26:35
it going to be the people from the sort
00:26:36
of 1.0 movement or the 2.0 movement
00:26:39
there was not a 1.0 person couldn't be
00:26:42
be couldn't be found couldn't be found
00:26:44
and so to like on the margin one or two
00:26:47
and and they were not the focus and who
00:26:51
you put in the front row speaks volumes
00:26:54
who do you put in the front row Sundar
00:26:58
Elon Zuck Lauren Sanchez he's got his
00:27:01
priorities straight here Lauren Sanchez
00:27:04
the priorities were very clear as to
00:27:07
what's important for this Administration
00:27:10
and I'm fully behind all of his
00:27:12
priorities both of those priorities all
00:27:15
those priorities seem incredibly
00:27:17
important to me you're such troll I mean
00:27:20
I don't want to troll too much but
00:27:22
that's the big takeaway for me and if
00:27:23
that is you know indicative of where he
00:27:27
wants to go with this which is business
00:27:29
first we're proud of our leaders we're
00:27:31
proud of innovation I think he's
00:27:33
sticking to it did you see him on at
00:27:35
Davos today he did a a I mean this guy's
00:27:38
got you know just crazy energy who mle
00:27:41
Trump zoomed into Davos and just dunked
00:27:45
on them for 45 minutes he did yes and he
00:27:50
just destroyed everybody at their dying
00:27:54
conference in their irrelevance as they
00:27:56
genuflected begging him to
00:27:59
come next year did you see the photo of
00:28:02
the half empty conference room to yes
00:28:04
you know most of the events were were
00:28:07
just empty chairs crazy it's it's
00:28:09
irrelevant I mean these people are
00:28:11
irrelevant now Thomas you guys remember
00:28:13
when Davos used to be a really big deal
00:28:15
is it debt I think it's worse trth I
00:28:17
think it's a counter indicator now it is
00:28:20
and there was a good conversation
00:28:20
yesterday greme Allison who spoke at our
00:28:23
Summit was on this panel and they
00:28:26
basically said we lost they won do like
00:28:29
our group here at davo is lost it's over
00:28:31
yeah and they're no longer to your point
00:28:34
on the right side of History they said
00:28:36
we had a point of view on the future we
00:28:38
believe we were going in the right
00:28:39
direction and everyone told us in this
00:28:42
last couple months that we were wrong
00:28:44
the gentleman by the way that spoke
00:28:45
after Grant was was also very good this
00:28:48
is incredible this is the greatest
00:28:50
comeback in political history of a
00:28:52
politician and then therefore he thinks
00:28:54
he can do anything we need to also
00:28:57
factor in not only who won which is
00:28:59
Trump but who's lost which is to say us
00:29:02
and then he has a whole the guy has a
00:29:03
whole long monologue on why they lost
00:29:06
and what they lost which I think is
00:29:08
pretty relevant that that you know kind
00:29:11
of elite if you will has been replaced
00:29:13
with a populist vote and a populist
00:29:15
leader all right let's get to our docket
00:29:18
today and just want to give a special
00:29:21
shout out we did our Inauguration live
00:29:23
stream and it was awesome and fun
00:29:26
special thanks to air call Abra and hyms
00:29:31
Thomas if you've ever got an issue with
00:29:34
weight or you know other issues that men
00:29:37
have you can go to hymns and use the
00:29:39
code Allin to get something hs.com Allin
00:29:42
I want you to write that down Thomas
00:29:43
okay in case you have have any any
00:29:45
issues uh that's what makes you think I
00:29:46
haven't already I well it's anything's
00:29:49
possible like I mean maybe we could talk
00:29:51
I mean are you on the chws or the pills
00:29:53
which one anyway we'll talk about it
00:29:55
offline but that's a full head of hair
00:29:57
it is a really incredible head of hair
00:29:59
thank you all natural baby it's great
00:30:01
it's great do you put what product do
00:30:03
you put in it yeah you put sea salt or
00:30:05
you got pomas what are you doing
00:30:07
allinone allinone PR shampoo plus
00:30:10
conditioner one bottle easy no but you
00:30:12
don't you don't use any product
00:30:14
afterwards none Jesus do you blow
00:30:17
yourself or do you have it
00:30:18
blown a question both but in this case
00:30:21
it's you know like Cuba Gooding and
00:30:23
Jerry Maguire I air dry baby oh air dry
00:30:27
gotta so when you're dry driving to that
00:30:28
Santa Monica office you just put the top
00:30:30
down on whatever convertible living that
00:30:33
full lifestyle okay yeah this is where I
00:30:35
I do have to admit unfortunately after
00:30:37
the after you appeared on the summit I
00:30:39
had all these women they were like oh my
00:30:41
God Thomas lefont is so good-looking and
00:30:44
I was like no he's not because I'm very
00:30:45
competitive in Zero Sum when other men
00:30:47
around me get but you were the Smash Hit
00:30:50
and then I figured out it must be the
00:30:52
hair and also the glasses I think the
00:30:54
glasses were a huge hit it looked very
00:30:55
Clark ksh are they are they real glasses
00:30:57
or you wear the clear ones to get the
00:30:59
extra intelligence points only time I've
00:31:01
ever been stopped in the street in my
00:31:03
life in the
00:31:04
Presidio a very nice lady tapped me in
00:31:07
the shoulder and said I loved your
00:31:09
all-in talk that's never happened before
00:31:11
so that says more about all-in than me
00:31:13
but the reach is
00:31:15
increasing it's a little bit by shout
00:31:17
out to Akash Singh who joined us on the
00:31:19
um live oh yes Akash was hilarious thank
00:31:22
you AOS filling in our Dei Department we
00:31:27
lost Cham and they sent AOS so he did
00:31:30
great get him back to gessos absolutely
00:31:32
yeah there's a moderator slot open so
00:31:34
he's going to be absolutely if you know
00:31:37
anybody who knows science all right in
00:31:39
our first topic president Trump smashed
00:31:41
the record for day one executive orders
00:31:44
26 in all beating the prior record of
00:31:47
nine by Uncle Joe Biden and no other
00:31:51
president signed more than one EO in day
00:31:54
one since the Federal Register started
00:31:56
tracking this in 19 1937 let's go
00:31:59
through them if you want to comment on
00:32:01
one we'll stop and pause or we can just
00:32:02
run through them gentlemen Doge
00:32:04
officially was established and uh people
00:32:07
are making note of the Doge SWAT team
00:32:10
Doge will assign an agency head to each
00:32:13
Federal agency the agency head will
00:32:15
build a four-person team this will
00:32:17
include an engineer an HR specialist and
00:32:20
an attorney it was separately announced
00:32:22
that v um was leaving Doge to run for
00:32:26
governor of Ohio fascinating interesting
00:32:28
I don't know if anybody's got a take
00:32:29
there they suspended the Tik Tock ban
00:32:32
for 75 days there's a lot more to get
00:32:36
into this so we're going to break that
00:32:37
down a little later TI to yeah okay
00:32:39
we'll go right to that in a minute the
00:32:41
January 6 pardons they pardon, 1500
00:32:44
January 6 participants including some
00:32:47
that savagely beat cops very
00:32:49
controversial we'll get back to that in
00:32:51
a moment ending Birthright citizenship
00:32:53
this is a controversial one that is
00:32:55
being fought legally those born in the
00:32:58
US to illegal immigrants would no longer
00:33:00
be considered citizens if this holds up
00:33:02
the birthright
00:33:04
citizenship is codified in the 14th
00:33:06
Amendment and 22 state attorney generals
00:33:09
have already sued over this executive
00:33:12
order so it might be a performative one
00:33:14
energy unleashing American Energy we're
00:33:16
going to dump into that one jump into
00:33:17
that one for sure and then federal
00:33:19
employees a hiring freeze and a full
00:33:23
return to office and the hiring fee
00:33:25
doesn't apply to military immigration
00:33:27
enforcement or Public Safety and then a
00:33:29
regulatory freeze on regulations
00:33:31
gentlemen where do we want to start Jan
00:33:33
6 Tik Tock Doge TI Thomas you're our
00:33:36
guest where do you want to start I'm
00:33:37
happy to chat about Tik Tok okay as we
00:33:40
mentioned earlier Trump extended Tik
00:33:42
tok's grace period by 75 days Trump said
00:33:45
he wants to get a deal done he also said
00:33:47
at a press conference that he'd like the
00:33:49
US to own 50% of Tik Tok and that it
00:33:51
could be a trillion dollar
00:33:53
asset that's unique and interesting he
00:33:58
was also positive about the idea of Elon
00:34:00
possibly buying it or maybe Larry
00:34:03
Ellison or anybody so he wants to make a
00:34:06
deal what are your thoughts Thomas on
00:34:10
what should happen with Tik Tok and what
00:34:12
will happen I don't know what will
00:34:14
happen but I do think it'd be
00:34:16
interesting um to share you guys we were
00:34:19
in we are investors in Tik Tok okay we
00:34:22
invested back it was obviously just a
00:34:24
Chinese company and investing in China
00:34:26
was very different back then but what
00:34:28
resonated to me when I met the founder
00:34:31
and he just had a very simple idea which
00:34:34
is his view was if I have a piece of
00:34:36
content and it's a great piece of
00:34:38
content how can I have it be shared and
00:34:40
his view was that if you share it on
00:34:42
Instagram the only way people see it as
00:34:43
if you had you know a lot of followers
00:34:46
and so he just had a really simple idea
00:34:48
and he said what if I take every piece
00:34:50
of content that's uploaded into the
00:34:52
system and I show it to at least one
00:34:54
other user so no matter what that
00:34:56
content is at least one person will see
00:34:59
it even if you have no followers and
00:35:01
then based on whether that person views
00:35:04
it or how long I might show it to
00:35:05
another user and then a third and a
00:35:08
fourth and it was such a revolutionary
00:35:10
idea and it really resonated with me at
00:35:12
the time and it just goes to show how
00:35:14
we're in an idea business and when you
00:35:16
have a truly revolutionary idea it can
00:35:18
get really big and so the the whole
00:35:20
Genesis of Tik Tok came from that really
00:35:22
simple concept of your content will be
00:35:25
shown and if people like it it'll be
00:35:27
shown to a lot of people so obviously I
00:35:30
mean if you look at Tik Tok in the US we
00:35:32
can just kind of very back of the
00:35:34
envelope look at the math right so if we
00:35:38
look at daus mother blue or meta as we
00:35:42
love to know the Facebook hat roughly
00:35:44
right has about 200 million
00:35:47
daus in the active users for folks who
00:35:50
don't know the terminology yeah correct
00:35:53
right so if you look at Facebook blit
00:35:55
Instagram you'll see it's about 200
00:35:56
million daus
00:35:58
and you can look at the time spent
00:36:00
what's interesting about Tik tok's time
00:36:02
spent is the daus are about half of
00:36:04
combined meta in insta so we get about
00:36:07
100 million daus in the US but the time
00:36:10
spent on the platform is the equivalent
00:36:13
of Facebook plus Instagram so obviously
00:36:17
um incredible not just scale in terms of
00:36:20
daus but also on time spent so if we
00:36:23
think about okay well what what would
00:36:25
that mean the business is worth so if we
00:36:27
look at meta today the market cap is
00:36:29
roughly 1 and a half
00:36:31
trillion I think internet investors
00:36:34
generally assume that roughly half the
00:36:36
market cap is
00:36:37
us so if we take the one and a half
00:36:40
trillion maybe that's 750 billion right
00:36:43
now we know that the time spent is
00:36:45
equivalent but the daus are half so
00:36:47
maybe we cut the 750 in half right that
00:36:50
would tell you that the max value would
00:36:52
po you know if you monetize the way meta
00:36:54
does and ranted the way zck does might
00:36:57
be 3 75 billion for the US asset alone I
00:37:01
think from that point you know you kind
00:37:03
of start to apply a couple discounts
00:37:05
right one is if that's my kind of
00:37:08
long-term value what kind of return
00:37:11
would an investor want potentially to
00:37:12
get to that 375 you know is it 50% so
00:37:16
maybe you cut that by
00:37:17
50% and then I think the devil would be
00:37:19
in the details what are exactly are you
00:37:21
getting are you just getting users are
00:37:23
you getting the algorithm are you
00:37:24
getting data right so maybe you also so
00:37:27
want to apply kind of a more kind of
00:37:29
severe discount to that but I think you
00:37:31
put it all together you know is 100
00:37:35
billion a reasonable
00:37:37
scenario you know I think the math
00:37:39
proves it and then could it be a
00:37:41
trillion dollar asset the way Trump has
00:37:44
mentioned I mean in a world where
00:37:46
Facebook's one and a half right and the
00:37:49
penetration of Tik Tok in the US is 50%
00:37:51
of what meta is I don't think it's
00:37:54
unrealistic so let's see what happens I
00:37:57
don't have any particular Insight on
00:37:59
what will happen but what I do know is
00:38:01
that it's an incredibly valuable
00:38:02
franchise so let me ask you the the
00:38:05
obvious question people are looking at
00:38:09
this and saying wait you're going to
00:38:11
take 50% of your shares and in this case
00:38:14
we actually have somebody here who has
00:38:15
shares so are you comfortable with the
00:38:17
government seizing 50% of your shares I
00:38:19
guess is one way to frame
00:38:21
it well I don't know I mean first of all
00:38:24
there's there's kind of no deals so it's
00:38:25
a little bit hard I can tell you that he
00:38:28
proposed so if in that scenario would
00:38:30
you yeah we never attributed much value
00:38:33
to the you know the Tik Tok us asset in
00:38:36
the sense of our our analysis was always
00:38:39
based on the value of the Chinese
00:38:40
business specifically because it's just
00:38:43
hard to know what the you know the Tik
00:38:46
Tok asset ex China would be worth right
00:38:48
is it worth zero because it's so
00:38:50
compromised regulatorily is it worth a
00:38:52
lot more it's just very very difficult
00:38:55
to know so we always took a very kind of
00:38:58
conservative view of really looking at
00:39:00
kind of the Chinese and you know some of
00:39:02
the other assets as the core value of B
00:39:04
Dan the holding
00:39:06
company ultimately what Tik Tok happens
00:39:09
I mean it's the classic when you try and
00:39:11
sell a company what's the value where it
00:39:12
depends is there one bidder or five
00:39:14
biders right is the government the only
00:39:17
uh bidder for that asset in that case it
00:39:19
kind of will indicate a value of x or
00:39:22
are there other companies that
00:39:23
potentially could be an acceptable
00:39:25
bidder to both sides
00:39:28
well the Trump deal though is he's
00:39:29
saying the government the United States
00:39:31
government the citizens of America would
00:39:32
get half of the company so that would be
00:39:35
the equivalent of you get shares the US
00:39:37
company yeah so what do you think of
00:39:39
this proposal because this seems like
00:39:44
unique in all the world so if in order
00:39:47
to have it spin out and maintain half
00:39:49
your shares would you be willing to give
00:39:51
all of us the government the citizens of
00:39:53
the United States half your shares well
00:39:55
I mean if you think about it what what
00:39:56
what did we
00:39:59
we learn that it might just get shut
00:40:01
down and be worth zero right so in one
00:40:04
sense anything that's greater than zero
00:40:07
by definition is kind of better right I
00:40:10
think
00:40:10
ultimately it will kind of come down to
00:40:13
does the government want to be the only
00:40:15
bidder for the asset or would the
00:40:16
comfortable would the government be
00:40:18
comfortable with either Elon owning it
00:40:20
and merging into to X or Microsoft
00:40:22
owning it or you know what
00:40:27
let me ask you a question can you just
00:40:29
tell the audience a little bit about
00:40:31
because you guys have been involved as
00:40:32
investors in China for a long time I
00:40:35
would love for you to share behind the
00:40:37
scenes what has gone on with respect to
00:40:41
being an investor in China in technology
00:40:44
over the last couple of years what has
00:40:46
changed and why and what goes on today
00:40:49
you guys made a fantastic investment in
00:40:51
by dance which is the parent company of
00:40:53
Tik Tok you've made other incredible
00:40:55
investments in China are you still
00:40:57
investing in China if not walk us
00:40:59
through what happened and why I think if
00:41:02
you look Dave at most of our virtually
00:41:05
all of our investments in China were
00:41:07
Chinese companies catering to the
00:41:09
Chinese market right right and there was
00:41:11
a massive trend of a very significant
00:41:15
economy that was adopting technology
00:41:17
right and so we can think about whether
00:41:19
that' be
00:41:20
smartphones companies like you know
00:41:23
Huawei whether it was companies like
00:41:25
Matan that were doing food deliver or 10
00:41:28
cent that were doing gaming and so you
00:41:31
know all our approach was basically
00:41:33
based on these companies and by the way
00:41:35
a lot of them were public which is what
00:41:37
people don't remember shath you may
00:41:39
remember but 10cent at one point was a
00:41:41
public company listed in Hong Kong the
00:41:43
market cap was 200 million yeah I do
00:41:46
remember so wow what was interesting
00:41:48
about it Dave is a lot of that played
00:41:50
out by do was an early IPO right so a
00:41:53
lot of that trend of Chinese companies
00:41:56
catering to the Chinese market really
00:41:58
kind of played out across public and
00:42:00
private markets for over 20 years y I
00:42:03
think to me what's significantly changed
00:42:06
over the past five
00:42:08
years is technology really became a
00:42:11
matter of National Security and I don't
00:42:14
think that when we were early investors
00:42:16
in Matan right that we necessarily
00:42:19
viewed that as a national security
00:42:21
threat as an example right and I think
00:42:24
as you know companies got bigger
00:42:27
as AI kind of came to be it became
00:42:29
pretty obvious that there were National
00:42:31
Security implications and you know our
00:42:34
view as investors is we don't set the
00:42:36
rules of the road we rely on government
00:42:37
and Regulators to do so it was pretty
00:42:39
clear I think to obvious that the
00:42:41
regulatory regimes were changing in both
00:42:43
countries and so for us as investors you
00:42:46
know we were just well we're just going
00:42:47
to follow what what the rules are and
00:42:49
what the governments are so my only kind
00:42:52
of regret through this whole thing is
00:42:54
and I don't know any you know if you
00:42:56
guys had kind some exposure to this but
00:42:58
the quality of the entrepreneurs that
00:43:00
came out of that era was
00:43:04
unbelievable strong cohort yeah
00:43:06
absolutely when you think about the the
00:43:07
founder of Matan Wanga and just how
00:43:10
brilliant he was and what he's done with
00:43:12
that franchise and not just doing food
00:43:14
delivery but also the software operating
00:43:16
system for restaurants right is truly
00:43:19
incredible Pony ma from 10cent right it
00:43:23
it was such an incredible group of
00:43:24
entrepreneurs they were a lot of fun to
00:43:26
be around they were excited and
00:43:28
passionate about bringing technology to
00:43:30
their
00:43:31
country and you know I and is it
00:43:34
over yeah hard to know I mean if you
00:43:37
look at the capital markets I mean you
00:43:39
can see we've not seen a tremendous
00:43:41
amount of innovation right or or new
00:43:42
companies kind of coming out so I think
00:43:45
the key question is you know is it a
00:43:47
pendulum and you know does the Chinese
00:43:49
regulatory regime kind of move one way
00:43:51
and then it kind of moves another way or
00:43:54
is it kind of fixed in this state is it
00:43:56
your Reed is it correct to say that the
00:44:01
CCP wanted to stop this extraordinary
00:44:04
wealth creation by a subset of
00:44:06
individuals in the country that this was
00:44:08
kind of becoming too much of a
00:44:11
capitalist enterprising system and
00:44:13
challenge some of the foundations of the
00:44:15
CCP is that what was going on and why
00:44:17
this all got throttled back I mean is
00:44:20
there or is there something something
00:44:21
else some other kind of you know
00:44:24
security I don't really know Dave
00:44:25
because as an investor it's you know
00:44:27
it's not a regulatory regime that you
00:44:29
have any interaction with right you're
00:44:31
really talking to the entrepreneurs and
00:44:33
you're kind of reflecting off of their
00:44:34
energy and their business ideas right so
00:44:37
we would meet businesses and we would
00:44:39
meet Founders and if if the idea was
00:44:41
kind of interesting to us we would kind
00:44:43
of fund it right so it's a black box in
00:44:45
some ways you know in terms of a market
00:44:47
to invest in you only have a limited
00:44:49
amount of
00:44:50
information and after Jack I mean you
00:44:53
got to think after Jack ma kind of
00:44:55
disappeared for a couple years if you're
00:44:57
an entrepreneur and you want to like the
00:45:00
message was sent the message was sent
00:45:02
message received and then you start
00:45:04
thinking about chamama you know what
00:45:06
Trump just did anding just did you put
00:45:09
those two things together Trump put all
00:45:11
of our top guys Top Dogs on stage here
00:45:14
they are it's the exact opposite of
00:45:16
China the message is very clear and it's
00:45:18
what Thomas said like technology is a
00:45:21
national security imperative and so
00:45:23
we're going to embrace these guys we're
00:45:25
not going to play favorites we're not
00:45:27
going to pick one and not the other
00:45:28
we're not going to have Summits and have
00:45:30
you know the founder of an entire
00:45:32
category not be invited that's just it's
00:45:35
honestly it's patently stupid and
00:45:37
immature and that's what the Biden
00:45:39
Administration did picked favorites yeah
00:45:42
and that is dumb based on the
00:45:44
implication and importance of technology
00:45:46
I just want to go back to the Tik Tok
00:45:47
thing I want to make three points one is
00:45:50
from the past I'll give you my sense of
00:45:53
the Tik Tok thing and I'm going to make
00:45:54
a prediction for the future
00:45:57
in
00:45:58
1984 the way that lvmh began was through
00:46:02
a deal that Bernard Arno
00:46:05
architected there was a business owned
00:46:08
by the French cotton King Marcel busac
00:46:12
and inside of that Empire was Christian
00:46:15
Dior long story short his Empire was
00:46:17
crumbling and Arno did a deal where he
00:46:22
bought that dying business essentially
00:46:24
from the French government for one Frank
00:46:28
fast forward now 40 Years of very hard
00:46:31
work and tremendous execution that's a
00:46:33
$350 billion public company now imagine
00:46:37
back then in
00:46:39
1984 if the French government actually
00:46:42
had done a deal where they said we'll
00:46:44
sell it to you for 50% of whatever you
00:46:45
build take it for a dollar but we're
00:46:47
going to own 50% of The Upside and you
00:46:50
know they would have an extra $175
00:46:53
billion
00:46:54
today I think that that's very important
00:46:57
in terms of what is possible today I
00:47:01
like Thomas's math I believe it I do
00:47:03
think it's about hundred billion asset
00:47:06
but at the end of the day the president
00:47:08
was very clear that it is completely and
00:47:11
entirely worthless without his permit
00:47:14
and he wants to own 50% of this asset
00:47:16
now if you're a buyer of something
00:47:19
you're not going to pay1 billion do if
00:47:21
you control whether it can exist or not
00:47:24
you're basically going to pay today's
00:47:26
equivalent of Frank which would be
00:47:28
$1 now I'm not saying that it is going
00:47:31
to be a dollar but if the United States
00:47:33
Treasury wants to hold 50% of an asset
00:47:37
that could be worth a 100 billion or 500
00:47:39
billion or you know maybe a
00:47:41
trillion it would make sense for the
00:47:44
United States Treasury and the United
00:47:45
States people to own that at effectively
00:47:48
zero so I think that the incentive is
00:47:51
there and I think he has essentially
00:47:52
said that he is going to do the best
00:47:55
deal in his interests which is the
00:47:57
United States
00:47:58
interests which I suspect means a price
00:48:01
that is as low as possible approaching
00:48:05
$1 and ultimately won't this be the
00:48:08
Chinese government's decision because
00:48:10
they could always say you know what let
00:48:12
it die maybe but my my point is it may
00:48:14
not be a dollar maybe it could be 25
00:48:16
billion maybe it could be 10 billion but
00:48:17
my point is I find it very hard to see
00:48:20
how it gets to the actual value that it
00:48:22
is today so then I think let me just
00:48:25
make a prediction for the future future
00:48:27
there's a question that this raises
00:48:29
which is does it make sense for the
00:48:32
American
00:48:33
government to be a little bit smarter
00:48:36
going forward about how it allocates
00:48:38
incentives and resources the American
00:48:40
government is still the largest single
00:48:42
land owner in America we give
00:48:45
concessions to private companies to
00:48:47
drill to build
00:48:49
things and it just turns out that if you
00:48:52
apply this example more broadly wouldn't
00:48:55
it make sense where when you create
00:48:56
incredible economic incentives and
00:48:58
upside for private investors and
00:49:01
investment for some portion of that gain
00:49:03
to go back to the American people is
00:49:05
that a bad thing I don't think so for
00:49:07
example if you said we're going to
00:49:09
accelerate permitting for all these data
00:49:12
centers we're going to make any form of
00:49:14
energy which was the opposite of what
00:49:15
the Biden EO said on his way out the
00:49:17
door he had all these conditions but if
00:49:20
the president president Trump's CEO on
00:49:22
data centers says any kind of energy but
00:49:24
we want to own a 5% Royal
00:49:27
and we allow you to put it on federal
00:49:29
lands or 10% or
00:49:31
15% would it really change the
00:49:33
underwriting that Blackstone and all
00:49:34
these other companies will do I don't
00:49:36
think so would it enrich America I think
00:49:39
so would it make it easier for people to
00:49:42
feel like they're participating in all
00:49:43
of these incredible gains I also think
00:49:46
so so my prediction is that this becomes
00:49:50
more of a template for the future it'll
00:49:52
be less about permitting it'll be more
00:49:55
about creating incentives allocating
00:49:57
those incentives for a share of The
00:49:59
Upside and I think that there is a
00:50:02
really strong economic argument for
00:50:05
America to do that you know trath to
00:50:07
build on that people don't remember but
00:50:09
Tesla got $465 million from the
00:50:12
Department of energy that was called the
00:50:14
atvm program which was the advanced
00:50:16
technology Vehicles manufacturing that
00:50:19
was a very Visionary program at the time
00:50:21
Visionary but it but it took no equity
00:50:24
but it didn't take equity and that was
00:50:26
dumb so dumb they should have gotten
00:50:30
some portion of equity some portion of a
00:50:32
loan Tesla did so well thanks to Elon
00:50:35
and the team hard work they paid it back
00:50:37
early they paid it back early that's how
00:50:40
well they did if they had owned 10% of
00:50:42
Tesla but 10% yeah I think the president
00:50:45
has has has sniffed this out by the way
00:50:47
this but and and you may not think that
00:50:49
these are related but when he said that
00:50:51
he's considering eliminating federal
00:50:53
income tax and funding this thing from
00:50:55
tariffs and he just had a press
00:50:57
conference today where he's inviting
00:51:00
every single company to come and make
00:51:01
things in the United States because he
00:51:02
will create economic incentives to make
00:51:04
it here cheaper but if you make it
00:51:06
abroad and bring it in here he's going
00:51:08
to charge money and a tariff all of this
00:51:11
are part and parcel of I think this
00:51:13
broader economic realization and unlike
00:51:16
20089 and 10 when we were allocating
00:51:19
money or 2020 and 21 and 22 where we
00:51:22
were just sending money out the door
00:51:25
with frankly no consequence and no
00:51:28
accounting this time around I think he's
00:51:30
got some incredibly sharp business
00:51:32
people this is by the way the upside of
00:51:34
having folks that have actually been
00:51:36
successful in the real world working
00:51:38
inside of government is they're going to
00:51:40
help them get to this realization and I
00:51:42
think it's a really good one I don't
00:51:43
think Tim Tim Walter my only push back
00:51:45
to you chamoff on that would be I just
00:51:48
think it's a dangerous game for the
00:51:50
government to start picking winners you
00:51:53
know I wouldn't for example if it owns
00:51:55
50% of a Tik Tok does does a
00:51:58
disadvantage a meta as an example right
00:52:00
and I do wonder is the value capturing
00:52:02
mechanism for the government taxes
00:52:04
essentially right so the the the way you
00:52:07
capture the the right the portion of the
00:52:09
value creation of these companies is
00:52:11
through a tax system and I do think we
00:52:13
just have to be careful of the
00:52:15
government all of a sudden picking
00:52:16
different companies to win you know I do
00:52:19
think having a good set of incentives a
00:52:20
Level Playing Field let the competitive
00:52:23
dynamics of different companies fight
00:52:24
each other and then capture the value
00:52:26
through taxes I think you're right and I
00:52:28
think that that part is absolutely
00:52:31
fundamental but I think there is a way
00:52:33
to architect this for example you have
00:52:36
these rfps that by Design have to be
00:52:39
published in the open source and
00:52:41
available for anybody to bid on my only
00:52:43
point is just to say that when there is
00:52:45
an ultimate winner why not have a small
00:52:48
stake in the upside look at the amount
00:52:50
of money that the doe gives in Grants
00:52:53
I'll give you an example you know one of
00:52:55
these companies that I helped start a
00:52:56
few years ago to make Advanced Battery
00:52:58
materials we got a $150 million Grant
00:53:01
I'm very appreciative of that Grant but
00:53:03
if they also asked for five or 10% of
00:53:05
the equity I would have still said yes
00:53:07
of course you would have yeah it's a
00:53:08
great deal and why not give a little
00:53:10
upside to the taxpayers I agree with
00:53:11
that by the way a parallel to that would
00:53:13
be Spectrum right if you think about
00:53:15
Wireless right kind of got built the
00:53:18
government auctioned off spectrum and
00:53:20
then allowed public you know private
00:53:21
companies to kind of come and bid on it
00:53:23
and you know so there there's a lot of
00:53:25
different interesting mechanisms you can
00:53:27
bring to that yeah freeberg which would
00:53:29
you like to go to next well I'll just
00:53:32
wrap on the Tik Tok
00:53:34
sure I do worry a lot about the predent
00:53:39
being set here with respect to foreign
00:53:42
government actions on us companies in
00:53:45
their in their local countries imagine
00:53:48
the CCP tells Tesla they have to sell
00:53:52
their Chinese operations and give 50% of
00:53:54
the Chinese operations to
00:53:56
the Chinese government because of their
00:53:59
concerns about security where Tesla is
00:54:01
now able to track Chinese citizens
00:54:03
driving around and where they are and
00:54:05
you can see very quickly how this whole
00:54:07
kind of overall I think presentation of
00:54:11
the security risk that we face with Tik
00:54:14
Tok and therefore we will shut it down
00:54:15
or own it creates I think a counter that
00:54:19
could really hurt American companies you
00:54:21
could see this going to Google to Apple
00:54:24
to Tesla even food manufacturing
00:54:26
companies that have operations overseas
00:54:29
where local governments say hey we need
00:54:30
to for local security purposes we need
00:54:33
to take ownership of your business I
00:54:35
think one of the things that's really
00:54:36
benefited Americans in global trade is
00:54:39
our ability to sell and Export our
00:54:41
technology our goods and our services
00:54:43
around the
00:54:44
world through open trade and I do think
00:54:47
that we've used this kind of Tik Tock
00:54:49
security thing to say this is a
00:54:50
rationale for us doing this as a one-off
00:54:53
but it also opens up a lot of other
00:54:54
people to say this is a oneoff and so
00:54:56
I'm just generally very wary about this
00:54:57
whole Tik Tok situation opening up a can
00:55:00
of worms you're 100% right and by the
00:55:02
way the ccp's done it already they did
00:55:04
it to Apple and if you follow what
00:55:07
happened when they introduced iCloud I
00:55:09
don't know if you remember gcbd
00:55:12
gcbd is the Chinese
00:55:15
state-owned data company the cloud
00:55:17
provider there and they just told Apple
00:55:20
we get all the data and they just had to
00:55:23
roll over and all citizens in China who
00:55:25
use an iPhone in order to use an iPhone
00:55:27
in China your data is owned by the
00:55:29
government period full stop and apple
00:55:32
had no choice but to do that so you want
00:55:34
to if you want to play in a certain
00:55:35
Market you got to play by the rules the
00:55:37
thing the thing to keep in mind here is
00:55:39
I hear all of these kind of like
00:55:40
theoretical qualms about how it's unfair
00:55:43
but this stuff happens all the time and
00:55:45
it's just that we don't benefit from it
00:55:47
so Jason brought up an excellent example
00:55:49
with Tesla the other example just to
00:55:51
remind you guys is during the pandemic
00:55:53
the Federal Reserve stepped in and
00:55:54
started buying commercial corporate
00:55:57
bonds they own a ton of like Ford bonds
00:55:59
so that these things wouldn't default
00:56:01
there's all kinds of action all the time
00:56:04
where the federal government is involved
00:56:06
in private companies my point is if
00:56:08
you're going to be involved have some
00:56:11
Legacy ownership on the back end of it
00:56:13
so that in case this stuff really works
00:56:15
that it's
00:56:17
broadly value creating for more
00:56:19
Americans I think it would create a way
00:56:23
to deescalate this Sensation that a
00:56:26
people are winning and everybody else is
00:56:28
just kind of staying still we should
00:56:30
talk about Stargate and the AI project
00:56:32
because I do think it tees off on one of
00:56:35
the Jan 6 though okay but it does tee
00:56:38
off of one of the other kind of
00:56:40
key things that I heard a lot about in
00:56:42
DC and I know Thomas is passionate about
00:56:44
like I am which is energy electricity
00:56:47
capacity buildout in the United States
00:56:49
because it's critical and like building
00:56:51
AI infrastructure means that we need to
00:56:52
build energy infrastructure all right
00:56:55
and so anyway yeah we'll go we'll go
00:56:57
right to that after we wrap up these um
00:56:59
we wrap up these executive orders and I
00:57:01
too wanted to talk about January 6th uh
00:57:03
just to give people the update here JD
00:57:06
Vance had said that the people who
00:57:07
committed violence on January 6 quote
00:57:09
obviously shouldn't be
00:57:11
pardoned and this's a parade of people
00:57:15
who are on the Republican side who are
00:57:18
coming out against how president Trump
00:57:20
handled this I think you you all know
00:57:22
where I would fall on the side of it
00:57:24
what are your thoughts on this where do
00:57:25
you where you fall on it you know I come
00:57:27
from a family of cops and I feel like
00:57:29
he's betrayed the blue on this one and
00:57:32
you know if there are people who I think
00:57:34
he should have taken his time with this
00:57:35
it is possible that some people had
00:57:37
sentences that were too long uh the
00:57:40
justice
00:57:41
system you know is imperfect in our
00:57:43
country and the pardon power is there I
00:57:45
think specifically to do a very granular
00:57:49
job of looking at each case right and so
00:57:52
I think we have to look at pardon power
00:57:53
generally after what we saw the Biden
00:57:55
family do and now we see Trump doing
00:57:57
this so I think the the pardon power is
00:58:00
not being used as it's intended it's
00:58:03
being used politically Now by both
00:58:05
parties so I'm trying to call balls and
00:58:07
Strikes here but you know as somebody
00:58:08
who's in law enforcement a family that's
00:58:10
in law enforcement and My Chosen career
00:58:12
was to be a cop and an FBI agent and you
00:58:16
know just looking at it it's just
00:58:17
heartbreaking to see people beat cops
00:58:19
and then be Trea as Heroes treated as
00:58:22
Heroes and some of these people are very
00:58:23
dark people you know the the the
00:58:25
oathkeepers and some of these people are
00:58:26
extremely violent and they're coming out
00:58:28
now after this has all been said and
00:58:30
saying that they're going to double down
00:58:32
they're going to buy more guns and that
00:58:33
they're going to get their retribution
00:58:35
and so I think you have to be really
00:58:37
careful with violent people that you
00:58:39
give them you know this coronation and
00:58:41
that they were Justified because they'll
00:58:44
go do more violent things and so I
00:58:47
understand he made this promise to
00:58:48
people I think he should have been very
00:58:51
granular in doing this I totally
00:58:53
understand there could be people who got
00:58:54
sentences that were too long and I would
00:58:57
would have liked to seen him do this
00:58:58
thoughtfully this was not done
00:58:59
thoughtfully I have a certain amount of
00:59:02
Goodwill towards the new president and
00:59:03
this has lowered it I knew that this
00:59:06
would be really important to you so I
00:59:08
took a few minutes to try to collect my
00:59:10
thoughts I've been kind of walking
00:59:13
myself through it since
00:59:16
yesterday this is not an explanation
00:59:18
other than to you Jason my friend about
00:59:22
how I think we got here okay so I just
00:59:24
wanted to take a few minutes to EXP
00:59:26
explain that to you I think that before
00:59:28
you can look at January 6 I think you
00:59:30
got to go back to what happened
00:59:34
during the covid lockdowns and what we
00:59:38
started to see in a bunch of these
00:59:41
liberal cities talking about BLM riots
00:59:44
the BLM riots the antifa riots what
00:59:46
happened in San Francisco Los Angeles
00:59:50
Seattle
00:59:51
Portland the lawlessness that you see in
00:59:54
places like New York the decarceration
00:59:57
movement and I think that what started
00:59:59
to happen
01:00:01
was a
01:00:04
sensation that
01:00:07
for the same weight there were different
01:00:10
measures
01:00:12
so for example if you start to look at
01:00:15
some of the deportations that are
01:00:16
happening now it's really quite shocking
01:00:20
I sent Nick a clip of them Nick you can
01:00:22
just maybe show the first few seconds
01:00:24
but you are talking about some
01:00:26
incredibly incredibly violent offenders
01:00:28
that were just walking randomly down the
01:00:30
street I'm not going back to Haiti one
01:00:32
of those threats is this illegal alien
01:00:34
from Haiti I says he's a gang member
01:00:37
with 17 criminal convictions in recent
01:00:40
years you feel me yo Biden forever bro
01:00:44
thank Obama for everything that he did
01:00:46
for me bro there's more after this but
01:00:47
there was like a rapist that they picked
01:00:49
up in Boston there's a person that was
01:00:51
charged with
01:00:53
assault so there was this sensation
01:00:55
Jason that was building up for a long
01:00:57
time that all of a sudden the law was
01:00:59
being applied in very odd ways where
01:01:02
depending on what you did you would get
01:01:05
adjudicated in totally different ways
01:01:08
based on your political affiliation or
01:01:10
your leaning or based on the desire of a
01:01:13
district prosecutor to go after one
01:01:15
thing or another let me just pause so
01:01:17
that's that's sort of like the thing
01:01:19
that was sort of building and cascading
01:01:22
I do agree with you that I think January
01:01:23
6 is kind of like a stain I I think
01:01:25
there's nothing to be proud of there but
01:01:28
I think what we found out since January
01:01:30
6th is somewhat important I think the
01:01:33
first thing we found out was that there
01:01:34
was a bunch of these folks whose
01:01:36
convictions were very speculative I
01:01:39
think the Supreme Court already ruled
01:01:40
that in June of last year it was like a
01:01:42
63 vote that said at least 350 of these
01:01:45
convictions should probably just be
01:01:47
thrown out so there was one body that
01:01:49
was that then there was a whole bunch of
01:01:52
them where to your point you took a
01:01:53
misdemeanor you trumped it up to a
01:01:56
felony you had all kinds of you know
01:01:58
things where procedural motions were
01:02:01
denied for the defense approved for
01:02:03
prosecution and you had sentences that
01:02:06
didn't match the crime and then you have
01:02:08
a president who frankly was the subject
01:02:10
of lawfare himself so I think that what
01:02:13
would have been better was a more
01:02:15
methodical approach to this I agree with
01:02:16
you but I do think that What's Happening
01:02:19
Here is essentially a moment where we
01:02:22
can close this entire chapter and we can
01:02:24
get back to a focus on observing the law
01:02:28
and adjudicating it equally for
01:02:30
everybody and I think that that's
01:02:32
probably the best way that we can all
01:02:34
deal with this because I think that
01:02:35
there was a bunch of Pardons that were
01:02:37
100% obvious and then there was a bunch
01:02:41
that were just you know had to be done
01:02:42
because the court was perverted in how
01:02:46
they dealt with some of these folks then
01:02:48
there was a small number and I don't
01:02:50
know the exact number to be fair Jason
01:02:52
where these folks did some really bad
01:02:54
stuff now it's also mixed with this
01:02:56
thing where there was a bunch of
01:02:57
informants then there was a bunch of
01:02:59
folks that were the informance stuff
01:03:01
have to wait for that to come out
01:03:03
because that's in conspiracy cor for now
01:03:06
my point is I just went and I collected
01:03:07
that as a way to try to explain to you
01:03:09
how I appreciate you understanding my
01:03:11
passion on it and and want to how we got
01:03:13
here I think it's sort of like I'm well
01:03:15
aware of it yeah I think we got to put a
01:03:17
pin in this and
01:03:18
say both sides should now have enough
01:03:22
experience to say we're going to apply
01:03:24
the law equally to everybody forward
01:03:26
from this moment out let's just go
01:03:27
forward and not look back I think that's
01:03:29
the best thing that we can all do let's
01:03:31
hope I'll just leave you with this the
01:03:33
the proud boy leader
01:03:35
Enrique Terio this is his quote on
01:03:38
getting out I'm happy the president's
01:03:40
focusing not on retribution and focusing
01:03:42
on success but I will tell you that I'm
01:03:44
not going to play by those rules they
01:03:46
need to pay for what they did these are
01:03:48
some seriously bad ombre the proud boys
01:03:51
and the oathkeepers and so don't be
01:03:53
surprised if they do something worse I
01:03:55
want to talk about the citizenship thing
01:03:57
and I just want to just provide a little
01:04:00
color for people I'm sure that there's a
01:04:03
lot of folks that are listening who have
01:04:05
people that work for them that you know
01:04:08
maybe the birthright thing if you came
01:04:10
here illegally and had a child you get
01:04:12
to be a citizen just to be clear this is
01:04:14
going to the Supreme Court and just to
01:04:16
put a little bit of color on it in the
01:04:17
14th Amendment there's this very
01:04:19
important part that says Birthright
01:04:21
citizenship is is applied to people who
01:04:23
are subject to the jurisdiction of
01:04:24
America
01:04:26
and for a long time that phrase was not
01:04:30
really considered in how the Supreme
01:04:33
Court administered the 14th Amendment I
01:04:36
think what this EO did and the lawsuits
01:04:38
that happened almost instantaneously as
01:04:41
a result will now send this back to the
01:04:43
Supreme Court very quickly yeah and
01:04:45
people will opine on what that means so
01:04:48
if it means nothing it means that if you
01:04:51
are here however you're here and you
01:04:53
have a child they're going to be a
01:04:54
citizen of America
01:04:57
if that
01:04:58
qualifier is now part of the
01:05:01
administration and the interpretation of
01:05:02
the 14th Amendment I think what
01:05:05
president Trump has written is what will
01:05:06
happen which is if you are here
01:05:09
illegally it doesn't apply if you are
01:05:11
here under a Visa that necessarily means
01:05:14
you're still subject to the jurisdiction
01:05:16
of somebody else it may not apply but I
01:05:18
think the Supreme Court is going to get
01:05:19
to decide this in pretty short order
01:05:21
okay a couple more issues I want to get
01:05:23
to on the docket sorry let me just make
01:05:25
a quick comment on the um oh sure Dave
01:05:27
go ahead the uh January 6 I I'm I just
01:05:31
generally don't like this power of
01:05:34
Pardon agreed we saw what Biden
01:05:37
did he gave I mean how many thousands
01:05:39
Nick you could pull the number up but
01:05:41
000 8,000
01:05:44
Pardons and I feel like the original
01:05:47
intention of the power of Pardon which
01:05:50
is in the
01:05:51
Constitution was meant to kind of
01:05:54
protect the the civility in the Union at
01:05:58
times of you know we need to kind of
01:06:00
come back together and realign ourselves
01:06:03
and it has been so far abused beyond
01:06:06
that original intention it's almost like
01:06:10
feels like an extraordinary Injustice it
01:06:12
almost gives the president the ability
01:06:14
to rewrite the law that many of the kind
01:06:17
of actions from the executive branch can
01:06:20
simply supersede the actions of the
01:06:21
judicial branch which is really meant to
01:06:23
protect and execute the law of the
01:06:25
nation and I think it's gone too far it
01:06:29
feels like there's a necessary amendment
01:06:32
to address this that these presidents
01:06:34
can come out and preemptively pardon
01:06:36
people for things that might be found in
01:06:37
the future because they're close with
01:06:39
them it has nothing to do with the
01:06:41
original intention if you go back to the
01:06:44
arguments for the pardon being in the
01:06:47
Constitution you can see that Alexander
01:06:49
Hamilton wrote deeply about it in
01:06:51
Federalist Paper number 74 and in that
01:06:54
paper he talked a lot about and
01:06:56
emphasized that the justice system which
01:06:58
is designed to be fair May occasionally
01:07:00
result in overly harsh or unjust
01:07:02
outcomes and the pardon allows for acts
01:07:05
of Mercy to correct these situations
01:07:08
there a lot of these sorts of actions
01:07:09
that we saw happen with with Biden do
01:07:12
not fit the bill for that
01:07:14
definition I will tell you there's a
01:07:16
quote from Federalist Paper 74 from
01:07:18
Hamilton it goes as follows in seasons
01:07:20
of insurrection or Rebellion there are
01:07:23
often critical moments when a well-timed
01:07:25
offer of Pardon to the insurgents or
01:07:27
Rebels May restore the Tranquility of
01:07:30
the Commonwealth so to counter my point
01:07:34
Hamilton's argument is that when the
01:07:36
nation is divided the act of the pardon
01:07:39
may actually help bring the nation back
01:07:41
together as may have been the case with
01:07:43
respect to the January 6th but it may
01:07:45
not necessarily be about or Justice or
01:07:48
Nixon and it may not necessarily be
01:07:49
about justice but is much more about
01:07:51
restoring Tranquility of the union and
01:07:53
allowing the nation to move forward even
01:07:55
even though it may not seem just it may
01:07:57
be the right thing for the nation so I'm
01:07:59
not trying to defend the action or
01:08:01
defend the pardon I really don't like
01:08:02
the act of pardoning as a kind of tool
01:08:05
that's being used in aund different ways
01:08:07
and it certainly seems like it requires
01:08:09
change so yeah and just um programming
01:08:11
note here research note 6,500 people of
01:08:14
those
01:08:15
8,000 seem to be convicted of marijuana
01:08:18
possession uh possession or they were
01:08:22
paron then then then the law should have
01:08:24
been changed and the courts should have
01:08:26
overturned all of those convictions it
01:08:28
does not necessarily need to fall and it
01:08:29
shouldn't fall on the executive branch
01:08:31
to take that action the courts need to
01:08:33
do their job and the legislators need to
01:08:35
do their job I don't disagree but I
01:08:38
think there is some compassion in the
01:08:40
Parton concept for how long do they have
01:08:44
to wait for that yeah how long do you
01:08:45
have to wait for that you know and then
01:08:47
like the people who were you know
01:08:49
convicted of selling dime bags or having
01:08:51
an ounce of weed on them were black and
01:08:52
brown and then all my white friends who
01:08:55
started
01:08:56
weed companies are now taking them
01:08:57
public in Canada so shout out trau all
01:09:00
right let's keep moving here I think we
01:09:02
we we've we did some good job here on
01:09:03
the reconciliation on the Pod where do
01:09:05
we want to go next Stargate project
01:09:07
Stargate Stargate starg Stargate
01:09:09
Stargate and energy yeah Stargate
01:09:12
energy so here we go and I'm gonna go to
01:09:16
to Our Guest here Thomas Thomas anything
01:09:18
on January six are controversial topics
01:09:20
like smoking weed but you want to jump
01:09:22
in on there no okay great sure L your LP
01:09:25
just
01:09:26
breathed hey you're coming on the all-in
01:09:29
podcast when is LPs they they're going
01:09:31
to be so happy but then when when they
01:09:33
hear the j6 they're just going to be
01:09:34
clenched waiting
01:09:36
for to end oh wait hold on my mic went
01:09:39
out oh never mind I missed it okay all
01:09:42
right it was well said honestly I don't
01:09:44
have anything to add you guys you guys
01:09:45
summed it anything on Lauren Sanchez's
01:09:48
uh outfit okay let's continue another
01:09:50
big story from week one we are literally
01:09:55
not even three or four days into this
01:09:58
it's going to be a crazy four years
01:10:00
according to open ai's press release the
01:10:03
Stargate project is a new company which
01:10:05
intends to invest 500 billion over the
01:10:08
next four years building new AI
01:10:11
infrastructure for open AI in the United
01:10:13
States freeberg we got to find out
01:10:14
what's going on here with the Stargate
01:10:16
movie and TV series if they got IP
01:10:18
permission to do this SoftBank and open
01:10:21
AI are the question I mean I'm just
01:10:24
thinking out loud and we have to talk
01:10:25
about where this ranks on your list of
01:10:28
great sci-fi and top 40 top 40 sci-fi
01:10:32
okay right up there with the Star Trek
01:10:35
original series and the Next Generation
01:10:38
SoftBank and openi are the lead partners
01:10:39
with Oracle and mjx also participating
01:10:42
Oracle Nvidia and openai will build and
01:10:44
operate the infrastructure Microsoft is
01:10:46
sort of involved although we'll see
01:10:48
about that Mas yoshian was at the
01:10:50
announcement he's going to be the
01:10:52
chairman however Gavin Baker and Elon
01:10:55
both called cap on X saying they don't
01:10:58
actually have the money Gavin did some
01:10:59
back of the envelope math and of course
01:11:02
as always Sam and Elon have been spicy
01:11:05
in the replies Sam is hurt Elon is
01:11:08
dunking it's it's just their
01:11:10
relationship is so
01:11:12
fluid Microsoft CEO Satia nadela jumped
01:11:15
into my thread with Elon saying he was
01:11:18
good for the 80 Bill and then he was
01:11:21
ready to build other products and
01:11:24
services and that was what was important
01:11:26
what do you think here Thomas is this uh
01:11:28
are you an investor in open AI I guess
01:11:30
let's get that out there or in xai just
01:11:33
so we know where you're coming from here
01:11:34
if you're talking your book but uh I am
01:11:37
an investor in open Ai and uh okay so
01:11:40
there's three points I want to make here
01:11:42
go Point number one going back to the
01:11:45
origins of the of this podcast and you
01:11:47
know sitting watching both Public Market
01:11:49
investors and Venture investors you know
01:11:52
one notable difference is you know I
01:11:54
think Venture invest ERS tend to be very
01:11:56
tribal so if you're in One Tribe You Are
01:11:59
by definition not in another and you
01:12:02
know I think there's a lot of kind of
01:12:03
domain specific reasons for that you
01:12:05
know for me as my legacy as a public
01:12:07
market investor I'm very comfortable
01:12:09
being both you know Pro open Ai and pro
01:12:12
Tesla and Pro X and so I just kind of
01:12:15
caveat that kind of you know as a first
01:12:17
point my second point is can we do a
01:12:20
slight detour on masa for one minute and
01:12:23
I'm curious to get your guys's opinion
01:12:25
but yeah is Mas the goat because when I
01:12:28
started in the growth business I met
01:12:29
with Yuri Milner and he said Thomas you
01:12:32
get in the Hall of Fame if you can have
01:12:33
one deal that gives you a billion dollar
01:12:35
return I.E you know whatever you invest
01:12:37
plus what you take out is a billion
01:12:39
dollars or more and he actually kept a
01:12:41
Tracker in his mind of who had made
01:12:43
those deals and what share he had and
01:12:45
Etc so let's go to masa for one minute
01:12:48
Masa is the hundred billion dollar Club
01:12:51
yeah okay and not only that he's
01:12:53
actually done it twice he did the first
01:12:55
time with SoftBank and Alibaba which at
01:12:58
its peak was a $200 billion win and I
01:13:00
think he ultimately netted like 80 plus
01:13:02
billion out of it so that's one he did
01:13:05
it again with arm that he bought for 30
01:13:08
and now is sitting on a gain of 100 I
01:13:11
think 35 billion and he could have done
01:13:14
it a third time with Nvidia if he hadn't
01:13:17
sold I mean guys there's nobody like him
01:13:20
there's no incredible you're 100% right
01:13:24
you got to give the man flowers he is so
01:13:26
I'll tell you what chath I am never
01:13:28
betting against Masa ever because you
01:13:31
got to give the man credit for what he's
01:13:33
done and so now let's go to kind of open
01:13:37
AI you guys mentioned we we do own some
01:13:39
open AI I am bullish on open AI which I
01:13:41
guess is now a uh
01:13:43
counter Against the Grain kind of view
01:13:46
but guys my point of view on open eye
01:13:48
and the reason I'm so bullish is really
01:13:50
kind of chat GPT and I do think when
01:13:52
open a gets you know we do conf it does
01:13:55
have different businesses right it's got
01:13:56
the model business it has the API
01:13:58
business and then it has the chat GPT
01:14:00
business right and if you look at the
01:14:02
downloads maybe Nick bring up the charts
01:14:04
but it is really interesting to watch
01:14:07
the market share of Chad GPT versus
01:14:09
Google uh Gemini and grock this is both
01:14:13
in the US and international it really is
01:14:17
a dominant kind of franchise right it is
01:14:19
maintaining 80% plus market share you
01:14:22
know J Cal if this was right sharing
01:14:24
right would say wow this this company is
01:14:27
the winner right so to me I think the
01:14:30
the quality of the chat GPT franchise
01:14:32
right I think they disclosed 300 million
01:14:35
weekly actives over a million Enterprise
01:14:38
users it has become a core part of my
01:14:41
own
01:14:43
workflow you know I have it on my phone
01:14:45
I have it on my desktop I use it all the
01:14:48
time I can't even quantify the value
01:14:50
that it brings it's so important for
01:14:52
what it does for me so
01:14:55
and I do think that it just keeps
01:14:56
getting smarter every query that I ask
01:14:59
uh it learns more about me it learns
01:15:01
more about our system so I do think the
01:15:03
chat GPT franchise inside of open AI is
01:15:07
one of the great most successful fastest
01:15:10
growing kind of stories so that's kind
01:15:13
of the underpinning of my kind of open
01:15:14
AI thesis you know on Stargate
01:15:18
specifically look I think the real
01:15:20
question to me isn't whether they have
01:15:22
the 500 billion right because we know
01:15:24
that the 500 billion could come from
01:15:26
Equity it could come from Masa if you
01:15:28
look at Gavin's tweet by the way he does
01:15:30
caveat it right saying that assumes that
01:15:33
Masa doesn't want to sell arm and soft
01:15:35
bank right so I'm not sure just Le up
01:15:38
and use debt correct so you have debt I
01:15:40
I think to me the real question guys is
01:15:43
do we ultimately believe that you can
01:15:45
get an Roi on that 500 billion because
01:15:49
if you can there will be people that
01:15:51
will want to fund it
01:15:53
right you can do data center by data
01:15:56
center you can do it actually at the GPU
01:15:58
level right so the financing is there to
01:16:01
me the the 500 billion doesn't scare me
01:16:04
from an absolute number I think the
01:16:06
question we you know really have to ask
01:16:07
ourselves is do we believe that the
01:16:09
market is big enough that the
01:16:10
opportunity is big enough that investors
01:16:13
can get a return on the 500 billion I
01:16:16
think I think you so to me that's the
01:16:17
real question I think you framed it
01:16:19
perfectly and since you bring up ride
01:16:20
sharing and the 80% there I you know I
01:16:23
really think that's an important thing
01:16:25
to to take a moment to um to settle on
01:16:29
because in that case you didn't have
01:16:32
Uber being challenged by Google
01:16:36
Microsoft and Elon Musk you know at the
01:16:39
same time in a digital product as
01:16:42
opposed to a real world product and so
01:16:44
you know when I use gemini or xai and
01:16:46
chat GPT and I use them all daily and
01:16:48
Claud the difference the difference
01:16:51
between the products right now is really
01:16:53
narrow and
01:16:55
I think you know if the equivalent would
01:16:58
be somebody who had a 100 million cars
01:17:00
on the road already competing against
01:17:03
Uber which you know doesn't exist or
01:17:06
didn't exist at the time so that that I
01:17:08
think is the the way I look at this as a
01:17:11
slightly different type of race I do
01:17:12
believe the chat GPT franchise has some
01:17:14
is worth something but I think
01:17:16
Enterprise folks when I talk to them
01:17:19
want the open source product most of all
01:17:21
so anyway I think it's still anybody's
01:17:23
um I think it's anybody's game right now
01:17:26
and I don't know how you get a return on
01:17:28
500 billion invested in this that that's
01:17:30
the other thing and I don't know if
01:17:32
that's the real number free BR what do
01:17:33
you
01:17:35
think I don't know yeah this is out here
01:17:39
in some crazy I think guys the way these
01:17:42
things happen right is you don't you
01:17:44
don't fund it all Equity UPF front right
01:17:46
I think these things get funded Facility
01:17:48
by facility data center by data center
01:17:50
across four years right and to Chamas
01:17:53
point it's not just equity it's you know
01:17:55
sight level debt and Etc right it's a
01:17:57
complex capital structure to these
01:17:59
things but look we live also in a world
01:18:02
right where I was just kind of looking
01:18:03
at this chart the kind of cloud capex
01:18:06
chart right and we know that in total
01:18:09
2025 capex for the top five players in
01:18:13
the US is going to be 312 billion right
01:18:16
so that's this year that's in one year
01:18:19
so we can also kind of frame this and
01:18:21
saying hey does that number make any
01:18:22
sense versus what others are spending um
01:18:25
it's at least kind of in the order of
01:18:26
magnitude right when you think about
01:18:28
it's over four years by the way another
01:18:31
really interesting kind of coral are on
01:18:32
this point is the US internet companies
01:18:36
spend 20x what the Chinese companies
01:18:38
spend on
01:18:39
capex really interesting as we think
01:18:41
about our competitiveness right uh Dave
01:18:44
to your point it's not just power it's
01:18:45
also kind of
01:18:47
compute I mean pretty powerful that
01:18:50
you're spending 20x what your competitor
01:18:52
is on these kind of Advanced
01:18:53
Technologies Jam how do you how do you
01:18:55
how do you look at this I think that
01:18:57
value and money are correlated in some
01:19:01
Industries like real estate or heavy
01:19:03
industry but I don't think that it's
01:19:06
very correlated in
01:19:07
Tech and I tried to say this in my tweet
01:19:09
I don't know Nick can you find this
01:19:11
tweet where I was just talking
01:19:13
about the Deep seek model so what did we
01:19:16
see last week we saw a model that got
01:19:18
released by the Chinese under by the way
01:19:20
a totally you know open source MIT
01:19:23
license that you can run on a laptop and
01:19:27
it turned out to be as good as open ai's
01:19:29
01 model so a couple of versions old but
01:19:31
the point is that this model cost
01:19:34
millions of
01:19:35
dollars and was able to compete with a
01:19:38
model that took billions of dollars to
01:19:41
train so my take away from that was that
01:19:44
these costs are falling really
01:19:46
precipitously so that's sort of my one
01:19:49
observation is spending more money
01:19:51
doesn't necessarily get you further
01:19:53
along if the goal is progress and I
01:19:56
think that that's very true in what
01:19:58
we're learning about AI because we're
01:19:59
learning as we go along so then I think
01:20:02
it just brings up this question of what
01:20:04
is the point of saying all these
01:20:06
grandiose numbers and this is where if
01:20:09
you look at a different industry like if
01:20:10
you if an oil company came into the oval
01:20:13
and said they were about to spend 500
01:20:16
billion you kind of know that it's real
01:20:20
because you know what these things cost
01:20:22
and you know what the entire
01:20:23
infrastructure will be and you know
01:20:26
so we know we know what goes on yeah so
01:20:28
the deeper the oil is in the ground and
01:20:30
the harder the rock is that you got a
01:20:31
break through to get there the more you
01:20:33
have to spend so those numbers become
01:20:35
very grounded in reality if you were a
01:20:38
rocket company and you wanted to build a
01:20:39
rocket and send it to Mars you can also
01:20:42
be very detailed in what the costs are
01:20:43
and you can assume some amount of
01:20:45
reductions of scale if somebody said
01:20:47
you'd have to spend 500 billion the
01:20:49
thing is that when in this world it
01:20:52
seems that there are these advances that
01:20:54
are are happening that allow you to do
01:20:55
things cheaper and cheaper almost
01:20:57
overnight by spending 1 1,000th of what
01:21:00
you spent even 6 months ago I think the
01:21:03
spending money part to be honest is more
01:21:04
of a gimmick than it is a technical
01:21:06
commitment so I guess if they want to
01:21:08
spend the money go ahead but it doesn't
01:21:10
actually tie to whether they're going to
01:21:12
be able to make custom vaccines whether
01:21:14
they're going to cure cancer so I kind
01:21:16
of thought that these things were just
01:21:18
joint and so my takeaway was entirely
01:21:21
different it was not a commentary on
01:21:23
mosa or Larry or Sam I think all of
01:21:27
those three companies are frankly very
01:21:29
good it was more a comment
01:21:32
that you have to be very careful to
01:21:35
protect the president's Legacy if I were
01:21:38
them to make sure that the things that
01:21:39
get announced are actually further down
01:21:42
the technical spectrum and are actually
01:21:44
going to be real because if they achieve
01:21:46
these things but it costs you a billion
01:21:50
dollars and you only hire 50 people
01:21:53
there's going to be a little bit of gone
01:21:54
the face and so that was sort of my own
01:21:56
takeaway I think that the things were
01:21:58
decoupled it just seemed more marketing
01:22:01
and Sizzle and kind of hastily put
01:22:03
together it was definitely yeah put
01:22:06
together mean yeah you got that sense
01:22:08
but I think it would be great if if open
01:22:09
AI Builds an another incredible model
01:22:11
whatever comes after 03 04 05 but it's
01:22:14
not clear that you have to spend 500
01:22:16
billion to do it you know I think people
01:22:19
are playing to what Trump likes which is
01:22:21
a big number and which is his influence
01:22:24
on growing the number so there was
01:22:26
specific details where Masa said you
01:22:28
know you I I told you 100 billion you
01:22:32
challenged me to get two I came back
01:22:34
with five right and so this is the sort
01:22:36
of trump ethos is hey we're going to
01:22:38
swing for the fences in a way you know
01:22:40
you could be critical of it and be like
01:22:42
well Trump's a BS artist or whatever or
01:22:45
if you're from Silicon Valley you could
01:22:46
say Hey listen he's moonshot it he's
01:22:47
going to just shoot for the stars and
01:22:50
get the moon so if these guys wind up
01:22:52
spending 50 billion or 100 billion and
01:22:54
more competitive more power to the
01:22:56
question I had was you know was did
01:22:59
Elon have any insight that this was
01:23:02
happening probably not from from the
01:23:04
reaction on I bet he did you know I
01:23:07
think you're I have no Insight either
01:23:09
but I do think if you were going to be
01:23:12
critical of trump that he was putting
01:23:14
his thumb on the scale for any one
01:23:16
company or individual this shows that
01:23:18
he's not it's an open platform the the
01:23:21
Trump Administration is an open platform
01:23:23
highest bidder gets to come to the White
01:23:25
House whoever spends the most whoever
01:23:27
buys the most military you know buys the
01:23:31
most ammunitions from us you're going to
01:23:32
get your time in the white house it's uh
01:23:35
this is a capitalist country this the
01:23:37
greatest one in the world equal
01:23:38
opportunity anybody one of the obvious
01:23:41
the obvious consequence of this data
01:23:44
center and Chip infrastructure effort
01:23:48
which is obviously going to happen with
01:23:49
or without government involvement is an
01:23:52
increase in electricity demand Thomas I
01:23:54
know you've got some slides do you want
01:23:56
to pull those up and and show them
01:23:59
because I think they're something I've
01:24:01
talked a lot about on the show which is
01:24:03
the difference in uh electricity
01:24:06
production capacity in the US versus
01:24:08
China historically and then
01:24:10
prospectively going forward ultimately
01:24:13
as I've talked about in the past right
01:24:15
the us today is paying roughly you know
01:24:18
call it one and a half to 3x the price
01:24:20
per kilowatt hour for electricity in the
01:24:22
United States over what China's paying
01:24:24
we
01:24:25
have I believe half of the electricity
01:24:29
production capacity of China they're
01:24:30
adding more the cost to add is is on10th
01:24:33
of what our cost to add is call it
01:24:35
1/10th to 1 half our cost to add per new
01:24:38
gwatt of production capacity everything
01:24:40
is in the wrong direction and ultimately
01:24:42
if Ai and automation are the critical
01:24:46
factors for economic growth going
01:24:47
forward and electricity is the critical
01:24:50
input to that we are hugely
01:24:52
disadvantaged and aren't going to catch
01:24:53
up it seem like you've pulled this
01:24:55
analysis together which kind of
01:24:56
indicates the same if you think it makes
01:24:58
sense to walk through this now yeah yeah
01:25:01
I'd be happy to I mean Dave you're 100%
01:25:03
right if you think of the GPU as the
01:25:05
atomic unit of the future right and and
01:25:09
the key competitive advantage and and
01:25:11
the key kind of uh ingredient you can't
01:25:15
power a GPU without a Data Center and
01:25:18
you can't use a data center without
01:25:20
power so I do think at the end of the
01:25:23
day it really comes down to the grid and
01:25:24
it comes down to power so I think that's
01:25:27
kind of constraint number one I other
01:25:31
you know the other thing Dave that I
01:25:32
think is really important is in an
01:25:34
inflationary era you do not want to
01:25:36
increase or have this industry be
01:25:39
perceived to be increasing electricity
01:25:41
prices for the consumer right so somehow
01:25:44
we need to add capacity we need to make
01:25:46
it so the consumer kind of doesn't go uh
01:25:50
Bonkers by having their bills go higher
01:25:53
and um we can Nick run through a couple
01:25:55
of the slides but the data shows exactly
01:25:57
kind of your point Dave right which is
01:26:00
we basically did not invest for a very
01:26:02
long period of time right in our grid
01:26:05
and China did and if you keep going we
01:26:08
can kind of run through these a couple
01:26:09
of times but that wasn't always the case
01:26:13
you know during kind of like the postor
01:26:16
War II boom era during the information
01:26:19
age you know we did invest and we did a
01:26:22
lot of it and then suddenly in 2000 we
01:26:25
just kind of stopped and this is
01:26:26
globalization you're saying is why we
01:26:28
stopped exactly right we start to of
01:26:32
that that we didn't have factories we
01:26:34
didn't have factories so we didn't need
01:26:35
as much power what's the reason we
01:26:37
didn't invest or we didn't need to I
01:26:39
think we just outsourced a lot of our
01:26:41
hardcore manufacturing you know indust
01:26:44
the USD industrial correct that's no
01:26:47
equals no need for additional
01:26:49
electricity now the new factories are
01:26:51
h100 factories we need back or AI
01:26:54
factories right and um and by the way
01:26:58
the way to think about it is almost like
01:27:00
a subscription business on a net ad
01:27:01
basis right yeah so this this makes it
01:27:04
even more Stark right because this is
01:27:06
kind of net additions and it just kind
01:27:10
of speaks for itself right and just just
01:27:11
read the numbers out so the audience
01:27:13
that's listening can can get a sense
01:27:14
here yeah I mean you can see I mean
01:27:17
since 1985 right the Delta roughly
01:27:20
between China and the US is what's the
01:27:24
quick math like it's almost 7x right in
01:27:27
2000 the US and China were both roughly
01:27:29
a th000 ter hours today the US is
01:27:32
1600watt hours and China is 9,000 tatt
01:27:35
hours yeah and this is just an
01:27:38
extraordinary ramp up relative to
01:27:41
correct on AI side the there was a Biden
01:27:45
EO last week I spoke about this on
01:27:47
Tucker because it happened the day I
01:27:49
went on Tucker but the EO basically said
01:27:52
we will allow
01:27:54
the
01:27:55
permitting of power plants on federal
01:27:58
lands to power these AI data centers
01:28:01
which started off like a very
01:28:02
intelligent EO but right in the second
01:28:05
paragraph started to talk about Dei and
01:28:07
all this other stuff and how you have to
01:28:09
have a certain percentage of it from
01:28:11
certain sources but just today it looked
01:28:13
like President Trump overturned it and
01:28:14
now it's full steam ahead if you have it
01:28:17
permitted then it's all about just get
01:28:19
the power however you need the power
01:28:20
which I think is the smart decision back
01:28:22
to your earlier Point like we are we are
01:28:24
in a race here in your analysis Thomas
01:28:26
can we do this without nuclear no can we
01:28:28
catch up without nuclear okay in fact we
01:28:30
can't and uranium I think you can speak
01:28:33
to that
01:28:35
better one of the really interesting
01:28:37
parts I mean you can see by the way
01:28:40
just the the
01:28:42
percentage of nuclear it kind of needs
01:28:46
to go
01:28:47
higher I don't know if you guys have
01:28:49
been following this stock in the public
01:28:50
market guys called Constellation Energy
01:28:52
oh yeah it's a really interesting
01:28:56
idea what's interesting of what Amazon
01:28:59
and Microsoft is they're actually
01:29:01
signing deals directly with these
01:29:04
companies right to do what's called back
01:29:06
behindth meter right types of deals so
01:29:09
they have Direct Energy access to your
01:29:12
point shth on the Biden
01:29:14
administration at the end of last year a
01:29:17
deal got
01:29:18
announced publicly announced that
01:29:20
federal agencies were also Contracting
01:29:23
directly now with ceg to power some of
01:29:27
their um facilities and even though the
01:29:29
in total the number was small we took it
01:29:33
and I think the market took it as a
01:29:34
clear indication right that the
01:29:37
government even under Biden was
01:29:39
acknowledging that nuclear is the best
01:29:42
path forward so you know we expect and
01:29:46
we think just the trend generally
01:29:48
towards nuclear energy is going to
01:29:49
continue it's been proven in China it's
01:29:51
been proven in Europe I think it will
01:29:53
show
01:29:54
to be a key part of the AI kind of arms
01:29:57
RS you know over the next 10 20 years
01:30:01
yeah this is to me kind of the story in
01:30:03
one slide right which is if you look at
01:30:05
basically the nuclear capacity in the US
01:30:08
it's basically been flat
01:30:10
for 25 plus years right ridiculous 90s
01:30:15
yeah right and so when Scott Besson was
01:30:17
asked are we in a in a you know Green
01:30:20
energy arms race with China he was
01:30:24
thinking about chart number on the right
01:30:27
right which basically shows how much
01:30:29
nuclear China has added right over that
01:30:32
time period and so I think it's it's
01:30:35
pretty clear what the answer is I think
01:30:37
China is leading the way in that measure
01:30:39
and I think we need to follow yeah well
01:30:42
and I think what's really important to
01:30:45
note is over that same period of time
01:30:47
Thomas we're in a different era on
01:30:49
nuclear than we were when we had Three
01:30:52
Mile Island and you know prior to that
01:30:54
Chernobyl we have new uh Gen 4
01:30:58
technologies that are meltdown proof
01:31:01
that have a totally different
01:31:03
architecture where there isn't a setup
01:31:05
where you have runaway heat and
01:31:07
ultimately a collapse of the uh the
01:31:09
reactor and a release of radioactive
01:31:12
material which is what happened at
01:31:14
Chernobyl these new systems which we
01:31:16
highlighted on the show a couple of
01:31:17
months ago like the pebble bed reactor
01:31:19
that's been in production making
01:31:21
electricity in China are incredible new
01:31:23
te technology architectures and they're
01:31:25
here and they're running and China's
01:31:28
rolling out dozens or hundreds of these
01:31:30
and the United States is rolling out
01:31:32
zero and that needs to change and I
01:31:34
think we only have a couple of months to
01:31:37
get the engine stood up that will allow
01:31:40
us to make the material that will allow
01:31:42
us to make the production technology
01:31:44
needed to actually deploy these stations
01:31:47
to try and have a shot at catching up
01:31:48
and if we don't we're going to be hugely
01:31:50
disadvantaged on an energy cost basis
01:31:51
we're going to be hugely disadvantaged
01:31:53
on an ability to actually deploy AI
01:31:55
technology competitively that's Key by
01:31:57
the way you also can look at France
01:31:59
right my my home country uh not known as
01:32:02
a technology leader but 70% of its
01:32:05
energy of its electricity comes from
01:32:07
nuclear but France held the line right
01:32:09
when Europe tried to really deprecate
01:32:11
its use of nuclear Germany did but
01:32:12
France held the line yeah it's too
01:32:14
important jamat you know it's 70% plus
01:32:17
so I I think it's there's examples it's
01:32:19
doable and I think now with AI it's a
01:32:21
matter of National Security National
01:32:23
Security
01:32:26
and that du tail into Fabs right which
01:32:30
is obviously another key component which
01:32:32
is a short term for Semiconductor
01:32:34
manufacturing facilities
01:32:36
right which is another in my opinion
01:32:39
keyst strategic area that we need to to
01:32:41
ramp up in the US the thing that I
01:32:43
noticed about that chart is the trend
01:32:45
line I mean look at how fast they're
01:32:48
building these and this is where you
01:32:49
know I don't know what government
01:32:51
incentive we need to create or what tape
01:32:54
has to be moved here but if we can't
01:32:57
build you know multif family housing in
01:32:59
some states like this nuclear is g to
01:33:02
really need to we're going to have to
01:33:05
figure out a way to change that trend
01:33:08
line freeberg yeah I mean what what
01:33:10
would it take to to build these nuclear
01:33:13
power plants at an accelerated rate I
01:33:15
will tell you that there is a lot of
01:33:16
capital and I we mentioned this last
01:33:18
time a lot of intellectual capital in
01:33:20
the United States that's eager hungry
01:33:22
and ready to get moving on buildout
01:33:24
the only thing that's challenged and the
01:33:26
only thing that's holding it back is
01:33:28
regulatory challenges regulatory
01:33:30
roadblocks and if those get removed
01:33:33
through emergency action I I view this
01:33:35
to be more of a national security threat
01:33:37
frankly than the Border I think we need
01:33:39
to get energy increased in this country
01:33:41
in an accelerated way for the United
01:33:43
States to even be in a position to be
01:33:46
able to challenge China with respect to
01:33:48
manufacturing and AI in the decades
01:33:51
ahead and the United States needs to
01:33:53
consider this an emergency emergency
01:33:55
declarations may be needed to drop the
01:33:57
regulatory road blocks that are keeping
01:33:59
the proliferation of electricity
01:34:02
production in the United States at Bay I
01:34:04
think it's time for that sort of action
01:34:06
so I think that's the only thing that's
01:34:07
getting in the way so we have the tech
01:34:10
we have the physics we have the will we
01:34:12
have the talent we have a blocker and
01:34:14
the blocker is regulation and that
01:34:16
regulatory blocker needs to have
01:34:19
leadership in
01:34:20
government to remove it am I summarizing
01:34:24
correctly here that's right and look you
01:34:25
have an energy Zar that I think is very
01:34:27
aligned with that intention in in Doug
01:34:29
beram obviously we have this big AI arms
01:34:32
race that's underway we have an
01:34:34
Automation and Manufacturing demand
01:34:36
which will massively increase energy
01:34:37
demand in this
01:34:38
country and we have I think a
01:34:41
deregulatory Administration the the
01:34:43
stars are aligned and I think that this
01:34:45
is a moment where this could happen sh
01:34:47
or Thomas what's the downside to
01:34:51
removing the regulation and going for it
01:34:54
and building this extra capacity can can
01:34:56
we Define any possible downside yeah the
01:34:59
downside is the the amount of time it
01:35:01
takes to adequately build these things
01:35:04
properly the thing that China has had as
01:35:06
it's as Thomas's chart shows is Decades
01:35:09
of practice in building things safely
01:35:11
and quickly we can build things but we
01:35:14
haven't had the practice to build them
01:35:16
either safely or quickly because we
01:35:18
haven't built any so that's a
01:35:20
complicated thing to just that's a valid
01:35:22
concern
01:35:24
if there is any resistance resistance to
01:35:26
this Thomas what would be on the top of
01:35:29
that list just theoretically how could
01:35:31
anybody want to block this what would be
01:35:33
the
01:35:34
resistance one other element guys I
01:35:36
think you know that we are blocking the
01:35:38
ability of China to get access to the
01:35:40
latest gpus right and the whole point is
01:35:42
we don't want them to use to develop
01:35:44
systems that could be used against us
01:35:47
but if China if one day China had 10xr
01:35:49
power capacity it won't even matter
01:35:52
right because they'll just have so many
01:35:54
more whether they're not quite the same
01:35:56
Advanced gpus or not they'll just have
01:35:58
so many more of them their industrial AI
01:36:01
capacity will be so much larger that
01:36:03
even if we have the best h100s and the
01:36:06
latest technology that Jensen and others
01:36:08
can provide it won't matter so in order
01:36:11
to make our strategy effective we need
01:36:13
to be able to to build this power
01:36:16
base I think it's a very astute Point
01:36:19
hey um chth I don't know if you've been
01:36:22
watching Netflix but I am a shareholder
01:36:25
and I am delighted I don't know what's
01:36:26
going on over there but they seem to
01:36:28
getting be getting their subs right and
01:36:30
that disra of a fight seems to have
01:36:32
somehow driven the stock price up and
01:36:35
there's some strategy that's working
01:36:36
over there maybe you could just um Riff
01:36:39
on it for a moment I have the opposite
01:36:41
take
01:36:43
okay yeah I mean it's obviously a very
01:36:45
good
01:36:46
company I think it's been incredibly
01:36:50
performant but I think it has like a
01:36:52
little bit of a dark commentary
01:36:54
on American society and productivity so
01:36:59
I asked Nick to just put up these three
01:37:01
charts I'll show you the first one so
01:37:02
this is the Netflix stock price from
01:37:06
2010 to 2020 and it's only gotten up
01:37:09
since 20124 okay
01:37:11
okay the only reason I did it at 2020
01:37:14
was because the the other data I went to
01:37:16
the CDC and I said well show me the
01:37:18
percentage of people Americans taking
01:37:20
ssris over that same period for
01:37:23
depression depression anxiety Etc and
01:37:26
what you see that it's also gone up and
01:37:28
then the last chart I went to the US
01:37:30
Bureau of Labor Statistics and I said
01:37:32
what has happened to the labor
01:37:33
participation rate over the same
01:37:35
period so I'm not blaming Netflix but I
01:37:40
think that this is a bit of a commentary
01:37:41
on sort of what's
01:37:43
happening in
01:37:45
society it's a little bit of a leading
01:37:48
indicator where as the company does
01:37:51
better and better the reality is that
01:37:53
that company wins by being a sync for
01:37:56
people's time it's where you go to
01:37:59
Netflix and chill it's a phrase that
01:38:01
that we all understand but the the the
01:38:04
dark underbelly of it is that there's
01:38:06
just a lot of people that are a little
01:38:07
bit more dejected there's a lot of
01:38:09
people that just opt out and and just
01:38:12
don't decide to work I think you could
01:38:15
graph the fertility rate and it's gone
01:38:17
down ratably as well so it's it's all of
01:38:20
this
01:38:21
soup that is about people living in a
01:38:24
life that that unfortunately just
01:38:26
doesn't
01:38:28
exist so I mean it's a well-run business
01:38:31
and I wish them all the best at some
01:38:33
level but at some other level I think
01:38:34
it's a commentary that as this company
01:38:37
does better and better there are more
01:38:38
and more people that are that are living
01:38:40
a shell of what their life could be so
01:38:43
cause and correlation uh aside obviously
01:38:46
correlated these is not causal you know
01:38:48
yes Netflix is not causing depression
01:38:50
but it's just a it's just a thing and
01:38:52
there's other things that obviously you
01:38:54
can put on this plate
01:38:56
sure but that was my reaction is I I
01:38:58
just think that the
01:39:00
more time
01:39:02
people are sort of detaching and and
01:39:06
plugging
01:39:07
out the more that you're going to see
01:39:10
these companies that provide ways of
01:39:12
distracting yourself do well I'm not
01:39:14
sure that Society benefits what do you
01:39:17
think Thomas opio for the masses or just
01:39:19
the golden error of
01:39:21
television what I'm curious chath is you
01:39:23
know how much of it is a substitutive
01:39:25
effect right away from kind of
01:39:28
traditional
01:39:30
media right I mean I've kind of looked
01:39:32
at it different ways that at least the
01:39:35
way it's measured you know time spent
01:39:37
watching television has not really
01:39:39
increased over 20
01:39:41
years to me it's more a reflection of I
01:39:45
could overlay the stock chart of you
01:39:46
know Fox and Comcast and you know CBS
01:39:50
and just have all of those have imploded
01:39:53
I think people have been kind of
01:39:54
substituting right away I I think the
01:39:58
the question then that you have to ask
01:40:00
is is there a reason that maybe the
01:40:01
Netflix product is fundamentally more
01:40:03
unsafe or detrimental to someone's
01:40:05
Health than the prior broadcast well you
01:40:09
know the one thing that I would say is
01:40:11
and this is not a Netflix commentary but
01:40:13
a general commentary which is online
01:40:15
products versus linear products have the
01:40:18
power and the benefit of this
01:40:21
algorithmic targeting and
01:40:23
personalization and I think that what
01:40:25
Netflix has successfully figured out and
01:40:27
a bunch of other products have
01:40:29
successfully figured out is that you can
01:40:31
hypertune to what people think they
01:40:34
want but what people think they want is
01:40:37
not necessarily what they need I think
01:40:39
when you had linear television you kind
01:40:41
of had to take what was given you didn't
01:40:43
love cheers but you watched cheers you
01:40:45
didn't love saying elsewhere but you
01:40:48
watched
01:40:49
it now it's that you can go into a place
01:40:52
where the thing
01:40:54
really feeds you and it gives you a very
01:40:56
visceral feedback loop and you can stay
01:40:59
there binge watching something for an
01:41:01
entire weekend and what didn't I think
01:41:03
the question is what didn't you do yes
01:41:06
necessarily didn't work out necessarily
01:41:08
didn't eat well didn't spend time with
01:41:11
friends and by the way I'm not saying
01:41:13
that I don't do it I've done it as well
01:41:15
like our group chat one of the
01:41:16
interesting things when Jason like he
01:41:19
he's very good about television and
01:41:20
stuff he says this series is amazing our
01:41:22
other friend Goldberg does the same
01:41:24
thing it's hard for me to not start to
01:41:27
start it and then not end it it's
01:41:29
addicting yeah but I have to really
01:41:31
check myself because then for those two
01:41:34
days I'll be tempted to not leave my
01:41:37
bedroom my my kids are like where's my
01:41:39
father and so I I I think it's it
01:41:42
happens to all of us yeah it's just a
01:41:44
thing that again I'm not trying to pick
01:41:46
on Netflix I'm just trying to say
01:41:48
societally I think we want people that
01:41:50
are vigorous and engaged in the real
01:41:52
world
01:41:53
and you know there needs to be a balance
01:41:57
yeah I uh wholeheartedly agree and I
01:42:00
think you have to schedule these things
01:42:01
you have to make it a permanent part of
01:42:03
your life playing poker on a certain
01:42:05
night of the week doing certain things
01:42:07
on the weekend with your kids having
01:42:08
certain rituals you know the the the
01:42:11
real damage to our kids is not that the
01:42:13
screens are damaging them it's that it's
01:42:14
replacing time I think which you you
01:42:16
were alluding to there Thomas this this
01:42:18
anxious generation as Jonathan hate and
01:42:20
we we had a great interview with him
01:42:22
myself and B in the Allin interview
01:42:24
series that is what's happening kids are
01:42:27
substituting whether it's Tik Tok or
01:42:29
Netflix or YouTube time for time with
01:42:32
their friends time doing physical
01:42:34
activities so you really just have to
01:42:36
limit the screen time so that those
01:42:37
other things in the boredom can emerge
01:42:39
and we will be having a talk in the
01:42:41
coming years about
01:42:44
dopamine it is something that these
01:42:47
algorithms have gotten really good at
01:42:49
doing which is firing your dopamine
01:42:51
every time you swipe that Tik Tok every
01:42:53
time you get to the Cliffhanger in a
01:42:55
series or you know Mr Beast video not
01:42:57
singling anybody out he's just a master
01:42:59
of it as well they're just all really
01:43:01
good at giving you that hook that
01:43:03
amazing moment uh and music musicians
01:43:06
are doing this now too with the hooks
01:43:07
and then the hooks go on Tik Tock the
01:43:10
dopamine addiction when you get burnt
01:43:11
out late at night getting those dopamine
01:43:14
hits the next day you feel depressed
01:43:16
then you go to a doctor and the doctor
01:43:18
said oh you have uh you know depression
01:43:20
so here's your Wellbutrin or here's what
01:43:21
whatever the I don't know what the the
01:43:24
the the things are of the moment I'll
01:43:26
just tell you what I focus on and what I
01:43:28
focus on with my family sleep hygiene
01:43:32
diet exercise
01:43:35
meditation do these four things and you
01:43:37
will reverse these Trends you don't need
01:43:39
it and listen I don't want to tell you
01:43:40
what to do medication's hard for kids
01:43:42
but I get the first three you know what
01:43:45
try it get the and listen I'm not
01:43:46
talking about book here app it has for
01:43:50
kids when I was growing up I grew up bud
01:43:53
my father would make us sit there at
01:43:55
9:00 every night and my sisters and I
01:43:59
would have to say this Buddhist prayer
01:44:01
and then he would make us close our eyes
01:44:03
for 15 minutes and he said meditate and
01:44:05
I was like I don't know what meditation
01:44:06
is but I was forced to just keep my eyes
01:44:08
shut and I would just Daydream but I I
01:44:11
suspect that there was like some
01:44:13
reasonably grounding value in that so I
01:44:15
get what you're saying I just have such
01:44:17
a negative connotation from it I've
01:44:19
never been able to come back to it
01:44:20
because of that experience but I would
01:44:21
just Daydream and by the way what I
01:44:23
dreamed of was getting out of that house
01:44:25
I was like I got to be you got a vision
01:44:28
Vision came to you I I got to manifest
01:44:30
some success here because this sucks Hey
01:44:31
Thomas thanks for coming on the show
01:44:32
great first appearance here as zesti
01:44:34
would' love to have you back unless the
01:44:37
king returns at some point you're the
01:44:39
best you should come back and you should
01:44:42
also come back to the all in Summit come
01:44:45
back for both and I know we still have
01:44:47
some some great topics like hotan and
01:44:49
others that I want to get to someday so
01:44:52
well that's actually when you come back
01:44:53
which we will do at some point in the
01:44:55
next few months I would love for us to
01:44:56
double click into hwk T so what for
01:44:58
folks that are listening wait what we
01:45:00
were going back and forth Hawken is the
01:45:02
CEO of broadcom and the reason when he
01:45:05
when Thomas brought this up hey guys
01:45:07
let's double click into
01:45:09
broadcom and the CEO the reason why I
01:45:12
was excited is that it is the only
01:45:14
trillion dollar company that nobody
01:45:16
talks about everybody knows Nvidia
01:45:19
everybody knows Amazon meta but broadcom
01:45:22
is a 1 one two trillion doll business
01:45:25
and it started basically through a whole
01:45:28
series of rollups anyways we'll double
01:45:30
click into this with you because I think
01:45:31
it's this is not the broadcom we're all
01:45:34
thinking of from the Telecom era is it
01:45:36
it is yeah Henry Samui yeah
01:45:39
correct I will leave you guys with a
01:45:41
with a
01:45:42
teaser to tease the next episode when we
01:45:45
talk about it and I'll tell you the
01:45:46
story that when Hawk bought broadcom
01:45:50
jcal to your point broadcom is the priv
01:45:53
of Orange County founded by Henry
01:45:54
Nicholas and Henry Samui kind of Legends
01:45:57
and semiconductors a legendary name so
01:45:59
it meant a lot to them that the combined
01:46:01
company aago was buying broadcom keep
01:46:04
the name broadcom and so Hawk being who
01:46:07
he is you know got a little bit of a
01:46:08
price discount to name the company
01:46:10
broadcom to him that was a great deal
01:46:12
that's who Hawk is he's a great
01:46:14
businessman but what is the ticker of
01:46:16
this particular company avgo and so I
01:46:19
said hawk why is the ticker still avgo
01:46:22
and you know what he said to me turn to
01:46:23
me said Thomas they forgot to negotiate
01:46:26
for the ticker
01:46:28
oh never forget the ticker interesting I
01:46:32
mean when when he started it was what
01:46:34
was the market capup 3.5 billion chath
01:46:37
it was an Not only was it an orphan
01:46:39
because it was it was a spin out of HP
01:46:43
it was a spin out of a spin out of HP it
01:46:46
was a double orphan 300X look at this
01:46:51
yeah is Last 5 Years the market Cap's
01:46:55
grown by 8X nvidia's grown by 20x but
01:46:59
you know Intel over the last five years
01:47:01
is what down
01:47:03
70% so you know I think there's a big
01:47:06
Divergence Thomas do you think this is a
01:47:08
function
01:47:09
of well I don't know if it's
01:47:11
directionally investing in the right
01:47:13
things or is it about like making
01:47:15
long-term Investments and thinking down
01:47:17
the road I mean obvious the compounding
01:47:19
Advantage he's an m&a Master this this
01:47:21
is less about there was a product that
01:47:24
won and more of a portfolio approach and
01:47:26
portfolio construction but did he buy
01:47:27
did he buy well ahead of the the curve
01:47:29
did he buy Over the Horizon Thomas like
01:47:32
that where Intel really missed I think
01:47:34
Intel really missed it's a complete
01:47:36
abdication of corporate governance at
01:47:38
the board level and the co level hey
01:47:41
guys breaking news story coming across
01:47:42
my feet I don't know if you can pull
01:47:44
this up Nick but there's a video
01:47:45
trending on the internet apparently an
01:47:47
executive order has just gone across the
01:47:49
president's desk and it was delivered by
01:47:52
none other than a gentlem David Sachs I
01:47:56
now there's a name I haven't heard in a
01:47:57
long time EO we're going to be forming a
01:48:00
internal working group to make uh crypto
01:48:02
to make America the world capital and
01:48:03
crypto under your
01:48:05
leadership which is really going up
01:48:07
right
01:48:09
absolutely here we go
01:48:12
whoa look at
01:48:16
this what he's using a Sharpie there to
01:48:18
sign these executive orders oh sax gets
01:48:21
to keep the pen there it is an executive
01:48:24
order I love how he holds them up it's
01:48:26
so great I wonder if s gets to keep that
01:48:29
they might not be excited but we're
01:48:30
going to make a lot of money for the
01:48:32
country thank you sir and so is
01:48:37
David oh you're reaction
01:48:40
jaman I think this is
01:48:42
great so we're going to make crypto
01:48:44
great again I'll be a little bit more
01:48:46
specific so I think that there are a
01:48:47
handful of ideas that if we can
01:48:50
Implement them
01:48:51
correctly are really
01:48:54
revolutionary I think that it's good to
01:48:56
have a stockpile of crypto I have less
01:48:59
of an opinion on that I think a set of
01:49:03
stable coin rails that makes payments
01:49:07
instantaneous and
01:49:09
Costless is an enormous acceleration to
01:49:13
GDP it would cut
01:49:17
fraud and I think that David's going to
01:49:19
go and figure that out and he's you're
01:49:21
talking about stable coins specifically
01:49:23
stable coins I mean I I talked about
01:49:24
this at the beginning of the year as my
01:49:26
sort of one of my predictions but I do
01:49:29
think that the United States stable coin
01:49:31
rails will be hugely disruptive and
01:49:34
value added he's going to have help from
01:49:37
the head of the SEC and the head of
01:49:38
Treasury to do it I just think it's
01:49:40
great I think saaks is already off to a
01:49:42
a hugely fast start the entire country
01:49:45
knows that we need to win the AI race
01:49:50
the the numbers are the numbers you put
01:49:51
up a chart like that Thomas
01:49:53
there's only one way for us to win and
01:49:55
that's to build more nuclear power
01:49:56
plants and so I think he's just got to
01:49:59
hammer this through and let's see who
01:50:01
tries to stop it I don't know if AOC or
01:50:03
Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas Bernie
01:50:05
Sanders who wants to jump in front of
01:50:06
this Trump train right now but I think
01:50:08
you get slaughtered if only there was
01:50:11
somebody who could comment on this
01:50:12
executive order that's what I need you
01:50:15
know chamath if I had the bat phone if I
01:50:17
could call somebody who call phone a
01:50:19
friend who would you call I don't know
01:50:22
you know I had my Saxy poo was always on
01:50:24
speed dial we used to hang in between
01:50:26
we'd have these great battles here on
01:50:28
the Pod then we go play chess together
01:50:30
we go have some drinks at the battery
01:50:32
but you know that was a different era
01:50:34
and you know I don't got my boy anymore
01:50:37
he's busy oh do we got right everybody
01:50:41
thanks for tuning in to the Allin
01:50:42
podcast I'm your host Jason calanis we
01:50:44
will see you next time bye sorry what
01:50:49
there he is there he is he's back back
01:50:52
to reclaim his seat it's yours home we
01:50:55
miss you buddy you look so handsome
01:50:57
going to cry 61 days not my bestie we
01:51:01
miss you were you just in the Oval
01:51:03
Office I was just in the Oval Office
01:51:06
first time in the Oval Office let me ask
01:51:08
you a
01:51:09
question was that your first time in the
01:51:11
oval well technically it was my second
01:51:15
but how was it sucks how's it been so
01:51:17
far it's pretty incredible yeah it's
01:51:19
really been pretty incredible well tell
01:51:22
us what are The Vibes and what's it like
01:51:24
to go in to the Oval Office and to have
01:51:29
that executive order sign TI us tell us
01:51:31
what the moment was like and then tell
01:51:33
us what's in the executive order well we
01:51:35
actually we did three executive orders
01:51:36
today so we did one on crypto one on AI
01:51:40
and then one on pcast which is the
01:51:42
president's Council of advisers for
01:51:44
Science and Technology the one on crypto
01:51:46
I guess we can start there the main
01:51:48
thing it does is it forms an internal
01:51:51
working group with the goal of making
01:51:53
the US the world leader in crypto so
01:51:56
it's not one specific action it's
01:51:57
basically authorizing and creating a
01:52:00
working group with the goal of achieving
01:52:03
that objective right and the members of
01:52:06
this working group are going to be
01:52:07
there's me there's the head of the SEC
01:52:10
the Secretary of the Treasury and all
01:52:12
the agencies and departments that have
01:52:14
an interest in crypto so we formed this
01:52:16
working group I'm actually chairing it
01:52:18
or I will be and again the goal here is
01:52:22
to to
01:52:24
identify and make
01:52:26
recommendations that the Departments
01:52:28
would then take back and they could
01:52:29
execute and just again with the goal of
01:52:31
making America the world capital of
01:52:34
cryptos the president of set of Davos
01:52:35
today and then the other two sex yeah so
01:52:38
that's crypto next one's AI so the the
01:52:41
number one thing that that EO does is
01:52:43
resend the the Biden EO which we talked
01:52:46
about on this podcast I don't know how
01:52:47
many episodes ago but remember it was
01:52:50
this 100 page monstrosity of burns some
01:52:53
regulation and the president had
01:52:55
promised on the campaign Trail to repeal
01:52:57
that and he did so it got rescinded
01:53:00
actually there was a master EO on Monday
01:53:03
that contained dozens of Biden era EOS
01:53:06
that got M rescinded this one provided a
01:53:09
little B more detail on it basically
01:53:10
said that that EO was UN necessarily
01:53:13
burdensome it said that we want to be
01:53:15
the world leader in AI in fact it uses
01:53:18
the word dominate you want we want to
01:53:20
basically have Global dominance in AI
01:53:23
and similar to what we're doing on the
01:53:24
crypto side it directs the creation of a
01:53:27
AI action plan and that study will be
01:53:30
led by three people the National
01:53:32
Security adviser who is Mike Waltz the
01:53:35
director of the office of Science and
01:53:36
Technology policy who will be Michael
01:53:40
ctios as soon as he Senate confirmed and
01:53:42
then the third person is me so the three
01:53:43
of us are going to work together on this
01:53:45
AI action plan and the idea is to figure
01:53:47
out what is it that the industry
01:53:49
actually needs to make us number one
01:53:51
globally in AI
01:53:52
so it's putting a little bit more
01:53:54
substance behind like what this what
01:53:56
this R ro means and the last one is to
01:53:59
build a science Council I don't know if
01:54:01
everybody's familiar with that so maybe
01:54:03
you could just describe what that is
01:54:04
generally for the audience well pcast
01:54:06
has been around for a long time I mean I
01:54:08
think it's you know been around for
01:54:10
decades and the the goal of pcast is to
01:54:12
assemble a group of top Science and
01:54:15
Technology Minds to provide the
01:54:16
president with advice so this was
01:54:19
already announced but
01:54:20
basically me and Michael ctios who I
01:54:23
mentioned before is g to be the director
01:54:24
of ostp we're going to be co-chairing
01:54:26
that and this is an EO that provides the
01:54:29
authorizing language to set that up and
01:54:31
then it provides some direction around
01:54:33
what pcast is going to do I think some
01:54:35
of the language that freeberg may like
01:54:37
is just it talks about the the need to
01:54:40
return to kind of truth-telling in
01:54:43
science and kind of getting away from
01:54:45
from woke science the AI order discusses
01:54:48
this as well we don't want AI models to
01:54:50
be ideologically biased an agenda I
01:54:53
don't know if it uses the word woke AI
01:54:55
but that's basically what it's talking
01:54:56
about we want AI models to be as
01:54:58
politically unbiased as possible well if
01:54:59
you need a recommendation for somebody
01:55:01
for the council I know somebody who is
01:55:03
extremely well versed on science he's
01:55:05
got a broad array of science knowledge
01:55:08
here here yeah I have an idea then we
01:55:11
could have two besties in the in and
01:55:13
around the White House hey well you know
01:55:15
thanks for including us in in so many
01:55:17
aspects of the weekend and the audience
01:55:19
really wants to know what are the chance
01:55:22
an we we get uh Sachs back on the Pod
01:55:25
now and again in 2025 um and we do
01:55:29
appreciate the sacrifice you're making
01:55:31
we're doing it right now but the
01:55:32
audience uh is you know not going to
01:55:34
just accept this little drop in here
01:55:36
they want to know what's the long-term
01:55:37
plan for David Sachs in the Pod and
01:55:40
what's happened like with media overall
01:55:42
in the administration now that
01:55:43
confirmation hearings are underway Sachs
01:55:45
and closing out does that mean folks are
01:55:47
going to be able to get back on social
01:55:49
and things that they were kind of
01:55:51
restricted by over the last couple of
01:55:53
weeks sure but I I think that you know
01:55:56
if you're working for the White House
01:55:57
there kind of needs to be a reason for
01:55:59
you to be out there because you don't
01:56:00
want to be making news that you're not
01:56:02
supposed to so in the case here today
01:56:05
the president signed these executive
01:56:07
orders on crypto and
01:56:09
Ai and they want me explaining them so
01:56:12
it makes sense for me to go out there
01:56:14
I've got a appearance on Fox Business in
01:56:17
about an hour to talk about the EOS as
01:56:19
well so that might come out before this
01:56:22
pod comes out but you guys are the first
01:56:23
ones I'm actually talking to but so
01:56:25
there's a reason for me to come out and
01:56:27
do it and I think that there probably
01:56:30
will need to be a good reason for me to
01:56:32
come on the Pod but I'm going to try and
01:56:33
come on the Pod every chance I get all
01:56:36
right well this is our appeal to djt to
01:56:38
let you come on and just chew the fat
01:56:41
and and and maybe there's some upside to
01:56:43
it for him do you miss being on the Pod
01:56:44
sex oh yeah sure of course we miss you
01:56:48
so
01:56:50
much look I'll be back back don't worry
01:56:53
some point are you a little emotional
01:56:56
right now SX what are your favorite
01:56:59
memories from the inauguration weekend
01:57:02
well the inauguration ceremony itself
01:57:04
was really pretty spectacular you were
01:57:06
there in the capital jamat yeah it's
01:57:09
funny Jack and I kind of took our seats
01:57:10
and there were aunda like kind of in the
01:57:12
back in the peanut gallery and I thought
01:57:14
that's where I was going to be sitting
01:57:15
and then somebody comes up to me and
01:57:17
says uh Mr saxs we have a seat for you
01:57:19
up up front and so they put me on the
01:57:22
you were with the big boys yeah it was
01:57:24
like the Secretary of State the
01:57:25
Secretary of Treasury and then me you
01:57:27
know and then we were just we were
01:57:29
behind the the Trump family you may not
01:57:31
have seen me because those Trump kids
01:57:32
are pretty tall but um that whole family
01:57:36
is very tall so I kind of disappeared a
01:57:39
little bit but in any event they put me
01:57:41
on the deas which was really pretty
01:57:42
crazy I wasn't wow I didn't realize that
01:57:44
yeah it was a huge honor there was a
01:57:47
shot where David and Jacqueline were in
01:57:49
the front they looked amazing and they
01:57:51
were kind of looking around H for where
01:57:54
to sit and I was like this can't be
01:57:56
right because there he must have had
01:57:57
like a name so it's good that it all got
01:57:59
sorted out but what was the vantage
01:58:01
point from your side basically you're
01:58:03
looking out yeah I mean I was looking
01:58:05
out and you know I could see the faces
01:58:08
of the Democrats as the president came
01:58:11
out you know President Biden and KLA
01:58:13
Harris they didn't look too happy no I I
01:58:16
wish they had a fixed camera on them the
01:58:18
whole time I wanted to see their
01:58:19
reaction shot side I've seen some of the
01:58:21
reaction shots you know hey just just I
01:58:25
mean that was really unique to have uh I
01:58:27
I mean I thought that that speech was
01:58:28
really incredible because well first of
01:58:31
all it was completely consistent with
01:58:33
everything the president had said during
01:58:35
the
01:58:36
campaign and so you really felt like he
01:58:40
he has a mandate here because this is
01:58:42
everything he said during the campaign
01:58:44
it remind me a lot of there's that
01:58:45
famous quote by by Abraham Lincoln that
01:58:47
public sentiment is everything with it
01:58:49
you can accomplish anything without it
01:58:51
you do anything and it really felt like
01:58:54
that inauguration speech was full of
01:58:56
substance but it was substance that the
01:58:58
president had delivered on the campaign
01:58:59
Trail and so when he won this Victory
01:59:04
where he only won the presidency he won
01:59:06
the popular vote he won seven out of
01:59:08
seven swing states he won the house he
01:59:10
won the Senate it really feels like he
01:59:12
has a mandate and I think he reiterated
01:59:14
that mandate in his speech and then of
01:59:17
course just the the cherry on top is
01:59:19
just that you know the losers just to
01:59:22
sit there and and listen to it well
01:59:24
kudos to them for coming out and keeping
01:59:26
the tradition yeah well yeah and when
01:59:30
he's talking about the corrupt
01:59:31
establishment that tried to put him in
01:59:32
prison through this law fair I mean he's
01:59:34
talking about some of those people who
01:59:35
were sitting behind him I just thought
01:59:37
it was remarkable a remarkable moment
01:59:39
that was a crazy visual do you want to
01:59:41
take us back sacks on how you because
01:59:42
you haven't talked about this publicly
01:59:44
but how did you end up I guess getting
01:59:46
the offer for the role deciding to take
01:59:48
the role anything you want to share
01:59:49
anecdotally on on the the path to get
01:59:52
here I don't know that there's that much
01:59:53
to report you know I was helping with
01:59:56
the transition I got offered the the
01:59:58
role and decided to do it so I mean look
02:00:00
it's not something I was expecting or
02:00:02
planning as you guys know I didn't even
02:00:04
know there was going to be such a role
02:00:05
but when they they decided to create it
02:00:07
and they offered it to me and so I
02:00:09
decided to do it you know just one thing
02:00:11
I should clarify just to make clear is
02:00:13
there's still some things I can't do yet
02:00:14
in the role because there's a whole
02:00:16
government ethics process that you have
02:00:18
to go through and I'm in I'm in the
02:00:20
midst of that process so we've signed
02:00:21
these it's given
02:00:23
me certain responsibilities and
02:00:25
authorized me to do certain things and
02:00:27
that process is going to begin as soon
02:00:29
as I complete this um I guess you call
02:00:31
it onboarding so just to be clear about
02:00:34
that there's things I can do there's
02:00:36
things I can't do I can kind of be in
02:00:37
listing mode I can't be necessarily
02:00:40
shaping policy yet so that's all going
02:00:42
to be worked through over the next
02:00:43
couple weeks all right sax I got to ask
02:00:46
first time in the
02:00:48
oval what's going through your mind yeah
02:00:51
great question my was on a swivel you
02:00:53
know one of those moments you're like
02:00:54
you can't really believe that you're
02:00:55
you're there it does feel a little bit
02:00:58
like you're on a movie set I mean it's
02:00:59
so famous obviously to be in that it
02:01:02
bigger in person or is it smaller in
02:01:03
person how what is it I thought it
02:01:05
seemed about the right size I know
02:01:06
that's that one of the things people say
02:01:08
about it is that it's smaller than you
02:01:10
expect I didn't feel like it was smaller
02:01:11
but it also didn't feel bigger it felt
02:01:13
felt like you know the Oval Office that
02:01:15
you've always seen the other people who
02:01:16
are in there who've been in there the
02:01:17
staffers who've been in there a 100 or a
02:01:19
thousand times it's obviously it wears
02:01:21
off and it's like just where they do
02:01:23
their work but yeah I've got to admit
02:01:24
the first time you go in there you're
02:01:26
pretty pretty a struck there was a post
02:01:29
that JD Vance now the vice president had
02:01:32
where he actually do you guys see this
02:01:34
Mike Johnson I saw the video Mike John
02:01:36
pretty crazy walking in and he's in
02:01:38
shock because he had never been in there
02:01:40
I guess you know I guess he became a
02:01:41
senator a few years ago and uh we've had
02:01:44
a Democrat president so he never
02:01:46
had and he said that he was honored and
02:01:49
humbled to be there I mean that's the
02:01:50
way I felt as well those comments by the
02:01:55
Vice President resonated with me I think
02:01:57
probably every American would feel this
02:01:59
way the first time you're in the Oval
02:02:00
Office it is pretty incredible you want
02:02:02
me to repeat the words that the
02:02:04
president said about you there's nobody
02:02:06
like this guy they said how did you get
02:02:09
David saaks how did you do that he's
02:02:11
doing it for the country more than
02:02:12
anything else we appreciate it David
02:02:15
thank you very much he's been he's been
02:02:17
really nice to me it's really incredible
02:02:18
he's been just incredible to me and he
02:02:21
he gave me the the pen from the from the
02:02:24
signing uh which is pretty cool can we
02:02:26
see the pen can we see the pen the brand
02:02:28
of the pen well it's not brand it
02:02:30
basically it says the White House on one
02:02:31
side and it's got his signature on
02:02:34
another and so look I wasn't expecting
02:02:37
trophy Cas is it like a Sharpie what is
02:02:39
it is it a Sharpie it is it is a Sharpie
02:02:42
you you you've seen him s sign right
02:02:44
yeah so it's what you know I assume it's
02:02:46
what what he likes but so he gave me the
02:02:48
pen which is pretty incredible have you
02:02:50
guys seen that there's all these ASMR
02:02:51
vide videos of the president's signing
02:02:53
where you can just hear
02:02:56
theen the pen on the paper it
02:02:59
makes exactly there's like all these
02:03:01
ASMR of that well freeberg wants to know
02:03:04
if you could
02:03:05
assign his new Tesla he wants you to
02:03:08
sign it with that pen he wants you to
02:03:09
autograph it so when you get back to the
02:03:11
valley you can you can start doing
02:03:13
autographs with that all around all
02:03:15
around no I think uh I think only the
02:03:17
presents allowed to use this pen only
02:03:19
the presents allowed to use okay well
02:03:20
put it in put it put it we're safe okay
02:03:22
don't lose the pen you got to put it in
02:03:23
a glass box or something and uh sax
02:03:26
there's thousands of commenters who are
02:03:29
just begging for you to come back do you
02:03:30
have a message to your Legions of
02:03:34
commenters well I I thank them and I'm
02:03:37
back right now I know maybe it's not
02:03:39
enough but soak it in it would help if
02:03:41
you guys could just do a better job on
02:03:42
the Pod so they weren't complaining all
02:03:44
the time we do the best we can without
02:03:46
you all right get back to work get back
02:03:49
to work go come on this taxpayer you're
02:03:51
on the tax clock here go go back to work
02:03:53
here and save America make America great
02:03:56
again listen we wish you great success
02:03:58
we miss you greatly and uh we thank you
02:04:01
for the service to the country we wish
02:04:03
you uh all all all the best as you go um
02:04:07
handle two of the most important issues
02:04:09
for our country Ai and help advise our
02:04:12
president on cryptocurrency as well love
02:04:15
you suxy and
02:04:16
pcast yes of course NP as well boys love
02:04:19
you very very much David love you
02:04:21
hopefully see you on Tuesday yes Thomas
02:04:24
thanks for coming in and for the opp
02:04:27
Thomas thank you very much you great
02:04:29
podast you Thomas love you
02:04:33
boys let your winners
02:04:36
ride
02:04:40
Rainman and instead we open sourced it
02:04:42
to the fans and they've just gone crazy
02:04:44
with it love you queen of
02:04:50
[Music]
02:04:54
besties
02:04:55
are that's my dog taking
02:05:01
driveway oh man
02:05:03
myit we should all just get a room and
02:05:05
just have one big huge orgy cuz they're
02:05:07
all useless it's like this like sexual
02:05:09
tension that they just need to release
02:05:11
[Music]
02:05:14
somehow
02:05:16
be we need to get merch our
02:05:22
[Music]
02:05:27
I'm going all in
