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All right, everybody. Welcome back to the number one podcast in the world.
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That's right. It's your favorite podcast. It's your podcasters's favorite podcast, the All-In podcast. We're back,
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baby. Chimath Paul Aatia is here. Our chairman, our dictator.
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How you doing, brother? Great. Yeah. Fantastic. You know, you put the
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Uber stock price and the Robin Hood stock price together, 150.
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I'm annoying. 200 I'm insufferable. And 250 we just hit.
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I am off the reservation officially hopping the fence. So yeah, life's good.
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All right. With us again, David Sachs, the ZAR. By the way, what's the reason why your
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Robin Hood stock is through the roof? Because of the crypto policies of the Trump administration. Yeah, that's fair. Fair. That's half of
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it. That's why it's gone from what is it like $3 to1 130 billion. Two $2. I paid less than a penny for my
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shares, but yes, it went from 13. Well, this is a typical liberal. You benefit from our policies and then you
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trash them. I'm a moderate, independent moderate. Here we go. Now it's it's starting already. It's going to be a great week.
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Everybody buckle up. And he puts the namaste in your payday.
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Our fifth bestie is back. Brad, welcome home. It's great to be here. Great to be I
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went out and got a haircut. Welcome back into the fold. Welcome back. I got a haircut on the occasion. I mean, Jason Jason,
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do you know how long it's been since I was last on this pod? I don't know. I've invited you like 12 times, but I think the emails there's
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something going on with email. I didn't get any of my White House invitations. You didn't get any all-in invitations. I mean, it's been so long since it's
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been so long since I was on this pod. I went back and listened. The last show I was on, we were still talking about how great
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Chamas spacks were before they crashed the entire market and it was already back. I mean, it was before Saxy Poo
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saved the entire crypto industry from prison and certain bankruptcy. And Jason, it was before you got so tilted
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with Democrats that you went completely off- grid, moved to Texas, and bought a bunch of guns. There it is. It's been a minute. So much
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changed in a Fortnite. My god. Wow. Here we are. Well, we're all back and we're having some fun. We'll have a
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little fun with our fifth bestie who's here. Only a $5 billion draw down for me between those memories and
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Who's complaining? Who's counting for a certain number?
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[Music] We'll let your winners ride.
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[Music] We open sourced it to the fans and
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they've just gone crazy with it. Love you.
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We got to start off with the Israel Hamas ceasefire deal thanks to President
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Trump who announced it just yesterday. We tape on Thursdays. He announced it on Wednesday. You'll listen to this on
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Friday hopefully. And he announced the first phase of a multi-stage peace deal. Notably, it was on the day after the
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2-year anniversary of the horrific October 7th attacks which led obviously
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to the invasion of Gaza. And this war has been particularly devastating for Gaza. Most of the region's been
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destroyed. 2.3 million residents have been displaced. And according to the Gaza Health Ministry, which I know some
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people will debate, uh over 67,000 Palestinians have been killed. The deal
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is based off of Trump's 20point peace plan, which the White House published last week, and the Israeli government
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will vote on the deal today, maybe even before the show comes out. Even with all
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this tragedy, something has gone tremendously right when it comes to these peace negotiations and the peace
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talks. So, Saxs, tell us what went so right here in those negotiations. I mean, right now, it looks like both
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sides have agreed to this deal. And the first phase of the deal is for there to be a ceasefire to end active fighting.
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It's going to allow unrestricted aid into Gaza. It's going to allow the release of all remaining Israeli
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hostages. and Israel is going to release 2,000 Palestinian prisoners and start
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withdrawing Israeli troops. So that that is what apparently has been agreed to. And the Middle East has a way of
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disappointing you. Sometimes these deals don't stick, but based on everything we understand to be the case right now,
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this appears to be a big breakthrough in terms of the fighting will stop and the all the hostages will be released. And I
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do think it is a big accomplishment by the president in terms of how this happened is because the president was
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willing to both cajol and coersse and use pressure with respect to both sides
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of the conflict. Longtime diplomat Aaron David Miller who advised both Republican
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and Democrat administrations on Middle East peace negotiations for the last three decades. He said that, I'll quote
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here, "Donald Trump has demonstrated a degree of will unlike any other
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president, Republican or Democrat. He has pressed an Israeli prime minister in
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a way that none of his predecessors have ever done on an issue that that prime minister considers vital to his
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political survival and the way he would define Israeli security requirements." So that was Aaron David Miller who again
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was the US negotiator in Middle East peace negotiations for a quarter century. And in fact, he wrote a very
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interesting article in 2005 called Israel's lawyer in which he was a little
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bit self-critical of the US's previous efforts and his own efforts saying that
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in the past the US saw its role as being to represent Israel as opposed to being an objective negotiator. And he he
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critiqued the US's efforts saying that we might be able to get more done if the US was perceived as more of an honest
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broker and perceived as willing to be a little bit more neutral in the negotiations. And I think what he's seems to be saying here is that Trump
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was willing to do that. He was willing to pressure Netanyahu as well as Hamas. I mean, obviously you saw in the last few days that he said that if Hamas did
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not agree to this, all all hell would break loose. So, he was willing to basically pressure both sides into
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accepting this deal. And you have to give him credit for it for where things stand right now. And you are seeing, it
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seems like virtually everyone's giving him credit. even the New York Times, even John Meechum was on MSNBC this
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morning giving President Trump credit for doing the seemingly impossible. And
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the reason I say even John Mechum is because Meechum is frequently criticizing President Trump as being a
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fascist or having authoritarian tendencies. And even he had to acknowledge that Trump had pulled off
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the seemingly impossible here today. All right, Shamath, obviously this is going to have a pretty positive impact on the region. So, as we look at, you
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know, if this does uh and again, you know, we got to be cautious here because as Saxs pointed out correctly in the
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Middle East, you know, sometimes these things fall apart and they're delicate. But let's assume that this uh peace deal
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does make its way to fruition and we what is it going to look like in the region post peace between these two
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nations? I mean, I don't know. So, let's start with that. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. Yeah,
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I think it's been a very unpredictable place for a very long time. That being said, what is the rational thing that
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has to happen? I think that most of these countries are facing a very obvious
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problem which is they have a resource that is becoming increasingly less
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valuable. That resource is oil. And so the practical reality is you want peace
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so that you can focus on the forward monetization of your reserves. So when
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that oil sits in the ground, the longer it sits in the ground, the less valuable it is to you because it doesn't actually
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add to your balance sheet. The faster you can monetize the oil, then the faster you can deploy it into other
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things, including services for your own citizens. Now the longer you wait to do that, the
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problem that we are seeing is that other solutions come around the corner. Eventually in the 10 or 15 or 20 year
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time frame, you'll have an abundance of electrons from nuclear. In the meantime, you have an abundance of electrons from
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that gas. You have an abundance of electrons, frankly, from solar. And all of these things will ultimately diminish
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the net long bid to oil. So if there's instability, you can't
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focus 100% on monetization. If there's stability, then the entire focus needs
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to be on the monetization of of the oil asset. And I think that that's a very healthy thing because it starts to
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create market driven incentives that will only accelerate all the positive
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things that are happening. By the way, and the other thing I just want to say which is personal is shout out to a friend of the pod, Jared
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Kushner. Aman tweeted this which I think is just so superb. But in one week,
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Jared did the largest LBO ever and then also helped negotiate Middle East peace.
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It's unbelievable. It's really incredible what these guys pulled off and it allows that region to be a real
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pillar of what happens in the next 50 to 100 years. All right. And I I think it's well said,
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Brad, that some stability in the region will help them with the transition from
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an oil-based economy to what you and I learned in our trips there and some of them together that they're looking to
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transition to private equity, solar, renewables, AI,
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owning sports teams, venture capital, and so many uh and tourism, building new cities. All of
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that is hard to do and then also getting investments if people feel the region's
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unstable andor dangerous. You know, it's not a good place to uh invest capital.
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So, let's um let's keep pulling the string as to what the best case scenario
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is here if we have true stability in that region. Well, that I mean you you you nailed it.
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The conditions for all of those things economic, right, are safety and security. you don't have any economic
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growth in the region unless you have that you know and I think you guys covered it pretty well but maybe just highlight a broader feature I think of
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this presidency right I think we might call Trump like the moonshot presidency if you think about everything he's
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trying to accomplish even Hillary Clinton said if he pulls off peace between Ukraine and Russia which is also
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going on simultaneous to these efforts that she herself will nominate him for a Nobel Peace Prize right I look at the
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presidency there are moonshots going on everywhere China, AI, re-industrialization,
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India, Pakistan, Ukraine, you know, in Russia, what he's doing in the Middle East. And if you think about moonshots,
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we all do these in Silicon Valley. These are high-risk, highreward efforts. We want to back people who go for
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moonshots, but the reality is most people don't have the courage to go for moonshots because there's a high
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probability that it won't work. But if you think about this for a second, after the horror of the October 7th attacks,
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the chaos in Syria, the attacks by Yemen, the escalations fueled by Iran,
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the idea that the president, Witoff, and you're right, Shamath, our friend Jared Kushner, could have overcome all of
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that, right? And that could have been all out war across the Middle East. It could have plunged the entire Middle
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East into utter chaos. But instead, he decapitated Iran. We brought Syria into
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the fold. We're on the verge of expanding the Abraham Accords. And now you have this historic signing. You
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know, we saw it with our own eyes when Sax and I were over there on the president's visit. You know, he is
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respected as a strong leader and liked in every one of these capitals that you
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go to, you know, and it's paying off. If this happens, Wickoff Kushner and the president all deserve the Nobel Peace
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Prize. If even 80% of it works out, I think it's worthy of a peace prize.
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Well, and not to mention, we're probably going to have, at least the rumors are, that there could be a China deal coming
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up at the end of this month or into next month. And if we could resolve the issues with Taiwan, even something like
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strategic ambiguity, and if there's a chance of uh Ukraine and Russia being
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settled, now you've got the trifecta. You know, you got the three biggest hot spots taken off the table. If you can
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get two of those, it'd be great for humanity. poly market showing a 90%
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chance 90% chance that all Israeli hostages will be returned by the end of the month which would be just
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tremendous. Um and then also getting aid to these poor people suffering in Gaza
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would also be nice to see. Anybody else have any thoughts as we as we move on to our next story? I'll just say that the funny part here
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is just there's anything funny about the story is watching the entire global left that's been demanding a ceasefire in
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Gaza for almost two years. they've suddenly gone strangely silent now that President Trump has seemingly engineered
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that ceasefire and uh I guess the the Nobel committee is they are announcing
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this Friday. I do think that a record like this would absolutely win any other president the Nobel Prize or at least
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get him a nomination. President Trump has ended seven wars in seven months before this one. This would be the
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eighth if he pulls it off. So seven Obama Obama won with nothing.
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Obama won just for being elected. He just got elected and he got a Nobel Prize. It was just kind of like a gold
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star. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's move on to our next topic. The National Guard has
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deployed troops into Chicago to protect ICE agents and Portland might be next.
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Obviously, a bunch of protests have broken out in Chicago after a number of these ICE raids have occurred. And over
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the last month, DHS has been executing something called Operation Midway Blitz
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in the city. 800 illegal aliens have been arrested. And there was a notable
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raid on September 30th by Border Patrol and FBI agents in Chicago's Southshore neighborhood where 37 illegal aliens
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were arrested in an apartment complex. Wow. And uh this included flashbangs and a Blackhawk helicopter, similar to what
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we saw in LA back in June. Trump has 500 National Guard troops standing by from Illinois and Texas and uh in case any
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protests get out of hand. Trump says they are needed to protect ICE agents who are being targeted. Illinois
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Governor JB Pritsker and Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson are obviously opposed to
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ICE actions and they are calling Trump an authoritarian and uh fighting for
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state rights in this regard. They filed a lawsuit to try to stop it and a hearing is scheduled for Thursday.
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Obviously, the president had some losses in um a number of these National Guard
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activities, and we can get into the details of those. Mayor Johnson also signed a couple of executive orders
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aimed at slowing down ICE agents. Uh they've established some ice-free zones across the city that prohibit ICE agents
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from using any city-owned property. And another one bans city employees from aiding ICE unless required by a criminal
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warrant. The White House called this a quote unquote disgusting betrayal and said Johnson was prioritizing illegals
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over US citizens. Your thoughts, Sachs? Well, I think the place starts with the
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Democrat attitude towards crime. We've seen many examples this recently. You had the murder of that young Ukrainian
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woman, Ireina, in a a subway by D. Carlos Brown. He was arrested 14 times
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and still left his judges and prosecutors refused to punish him or keep him off the streets. There was a testimony of Steven Federico before a
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congressional subcommittee who recounted how his daughter Logan was murdered by Alexander Dicki, a man with over 25
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felony arrests in San Francisco. Here you got leftists are still trying to get
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diversion for Troy Mallister who killed Hana Abbe and Elizabeth Plat on New Year's Eve 2020. That was the case that
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activated all of us to get Chase Bodí recalled successfully. So look, you have
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here so many examples of leftist prosecutors and judges and activists
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always trying to get repeat felons off trying to get them diversion, never prosecuting them. They're in favor of
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zero bail. They've turned the jails into revolving door. And that's why you see in places like Chicago or Washington DC
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enormous amounts of of violent crime. Now in DC, the president had the ability
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to clean up the streets, to clean up the homeless encampments, make the streets safer. No one denied the feds had a
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right to go in and they did. And there have been immediate positive results. Homicides and carjackings and so forth
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have fallen dramatically. Everyone who actually lives in DC is very happy about this situation. and the restaurants are
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full again, people feel safe to go out. So the question is where else can the
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president basically help these cities and go in in Memphis?
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They have been invited by the Republican governor to go in and help and so they
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will. Now with Portland and Chicago, the problem here is that frankly you've got
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mayors and governors who are opposed to doing anything about the crime problem. And moreover, they refuse to support ICE
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and DHS in their mission to enforce immigration laws. And then finally, you've got violent leftist protesters
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like Antifa who've taken to the streets and they are trying to thwart deportations of violent aliens by ICE
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and DHS. In response to that, the president has sent somewhere between, I think, 300 and 500 National Guardsmen to
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support ICE in Chicago. It's not a broad-based mission to clean up the streets because, you know, we still have
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to figure out what the legal authority to do that is. They're just there to support ICE. And yet, you see all this
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hysterical bluster and rhetoric by JB Pritsker and other Democrats basically claiming this is authoritarian. It's
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not. It's a very limited operation to support IS and DHS in their lawful
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mission to enforce immigration laws. And there's no question that the president has this authority. Both Eisenhower and
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JFK sent federal troops into the South to enforce federal desegregation laws.
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For example, when James Meredith was barred from attending Miss University of Mississippi, JFK sent in 30,000 federal
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troops to bust open the doors of Miss. And by the way, they were not National Guardsmen. These were the Army. So,
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presidents have sent in troops. They have sent a national guardsman to enforce the law in American cities. He
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absolutely has the right and power to do this. But like I said, this is somewhere between 300 and 500 guardsmen sent to
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back up ICE who is being assaulted by violent protests and riders by Antifa.
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And what you're seeing by the mainstream media and by liberals is an attempt to mischaracterize the situation. All
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right, just to put some numbers on that for the DC National Guard being called
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out. Obviously, Trump uh and the president, whatever president is, clearly has the rights to do that for a
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certain period of time. And um if you look at this Washington Post story, I'll send it to you for post, 61% of people
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said in DC, according to the Washington Post survey, that the people in
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Washington DC said the military police present has made them feel less safe. 79% of people pled in DC in the same
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survey said they don't want the National Guard in the city. So there is a lot of conflicting data here. But
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overwhelmingly in DC data that's an opinion. No, it's an emotional a survey. I give you a different surve.
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If we're going to do surveys Yeah. Yeah. Sure. There was a poll last week from TIP Insights which showed that Trump
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What's Tip Insights? I've never heard of it. Tip. It's This was cited by Newsweek. I
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can put the link on the screen. Okay. Yeah, I never heard of it. Well, they're a pollster. Well, Washington Post was one I cited.
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Yeah. Well, okay. And I'm sure they're perfectly objective, right? Next, you're going to be quoting the New York Times
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to tell me how objective they are. Here's Tip. They're a pollster. These TIP Insight showed that Trump had a net
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positive rating among voters in cities 47 to 44 and that his numbers have improved recently. So, look, I think
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this is tremendously popular with the citizens of these crimeinfested cities.
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We saw this with DC that the locals, the residents, including among the black
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population were very happy with the fact that Trump sent in the National Guard and crime has been massively reduced.
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Sorry, can I say something? You know why it's popular and it's working? Because of what Wes Moore did. Wesmore is the
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perfect example of what I think a Democrat governor should be doing, which is obviously he has to blather on with
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his anti-Trump rhetoric, but what does he do behind the scenes? He sends in
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state troops and he makes sure that there's a surge of policing in all of these crimeridden areas because he knows
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that the policy works. He just wants to get the credit for it and he doesn't necessarily want somebody else to get
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the credit. This is where I think what's happening in Illinois is a bit of a headscratcher because if you see how
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badly run and how crimeinfested Chicago is and the state of Illinois is,
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why wouldn't JB Pritsker do what Wes Moore does? I think the honest thing that they should be doing is to
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recognize that the citizens on the ground in these places want to live in a safe and peaceful place. And with more
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policing and with more troops, it's just statistically true that crime comes down. And I think at the end of the day,
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probably the citizens of these places care less whether they're National Guards troops or whether they're state
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troops, but they just care that they're there. This is why I think asking emotional reactions to me doesn't make
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as much sense because I feel it's a very partisan way of opining on the person who gives you the resource because I
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suspect if you ask the exact same question inside of Baltimore to the state troops that were sent in by West
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Moore a Democrat, you probably get a different response. But the outcome is the same. Crime goes down. That's what
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everybody wants. Brad, any concerns about the militarization in the country that is occurring from
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you? Well, I think listen, nobody wants abusive tactics, but let me just give you some numbers that cause me to
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believe this feels more like, you know, a bipartisan issue and and we have kind of the pendulum swinging back more than,
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you know, something that should cause us concern. Court-ordered removals and
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deportations average 200,000 per year, 1997 to 2000.
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That's under Clinton. 200,000 a year. They averaged 300,000 a year, peaking at
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400,000 under Obama, right? Deportations plummeted under Biden. At the same time,
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we know that illegal crossings into this country kind of exploded higher. And now
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they estimate that Trump is back to the trend line of 300 to 400,000 illegal,
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you know, deportations and removals. These are court-ordered removals. So, I might have expected the Trump number to
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be way higher given that we just went through this massive step up in illegal crossings, but I think it's really
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important to point out that this has been a bipartisan consistent thing that
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has happened in this country for 30 years. I'm not talking about tactics exactly how it's going on, but the
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deportations have been going on by both parties and we never it hasn't been an issue before. And so, it is curious that
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it is more of an issue now. And then the other thing I would just underscore is if you look at what Daniel Lur is doing in the city of San Francisco, he is live
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blogging on Twitter and Instagram the arrests of a 100 fugitives per night. I
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think he's had three or four of these nights now in San Francisco to take these people off the street following a
00:23:56
mayor that wouldn't even arrest people and no prosecutions because he understands as a Democrat what citizens
00:24:02
expect first is safety. They want the ability to walk their kids to school, to walk to dinner, to play in a park, and
00:24:09
not have to worry about being safe. So, I think I, you know, I build on what Chamas said. I think the smart Democrats
00:24:15
are realizing this is a bipartisan issue. This is what people want. It it it's not inconsistent with what, you
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know, Presidents Obama and Clinton did in their administrations in terms of deportations. And so, I don't think this
00:24:27
is the hill that they want to die on. JCL, I'd love to hear your thoughts on on on what's going on with these
00:24:33
deportations. Well, I've been very vocal that I don't agree with the violent nature of the
00:24:39
deportations and what ICE is doing. Uh, but obviously I am very much since Sax and I work together on the ouster of
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Chesine, obviously I care coming from a law enforcement family about law and order. I think it's super important and
00:24:52
I obviously agree, but I want to level the conversation up a little bit and maybe talk a little bit about the
00:25:00
president's approval ratings and how this all connects. So, got a couple of
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charts I'll share with you guys here and I'll get your reactions. It's not pretty for Trump right now. His polling is at
00:25:12
an all-time low. It's worse than the last couple of seasons of The Apprentice, in fact. And when you look
00:25:20
at this chart here of Donald Trump's approval rating, you'll see there are four dips here. And this is the net
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approval rating. And what you'll see is liberation day when he did the tariffs. Obviously, he went a little too far on
00:25:32
the tariffs. And uh that was pretty shocking. Went down to a -10. That's taking his approval minusing the
00:25:38
disapproval. And that's how you get the net approval. Then the LA protest.
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remember the violent protests and the ICE agents chasing people down in fields and Americans didn't like that either.
00:25:51
Not releasing the Epstein files in July, another dip down to his lowest of his
00:25:56
presidency, about 10%. And then now we're uh with these Chicago ICE raids
00:26:01
and the violent nature of him, I believe, is the cause of this. And going on a little bit even from here, if you
00:26:09
look at his wheelhouse, this is where Trump won the election. I think we all
00:26:14
agree in the Trump 2.0 platform, which won a lot of moderates like myself. I know on this show people like to say I'm
00:26:20
a Democrat. I've voted actually now Republican almost exactly as much as I've uh voted Democrat and I am a strong
00:26:29
moderate. If you look at immigration, his net approval rating has plummeted from plus 10% down to minus about 5%.
00:26:36
The economy, he's down 15%. He was up 5% at the start start. Trade, he's rebounded a little bit. And inflation,
00:26:44
he's down 27%. And so this is his wheelhouse. And if you look at from Bari Weiss's,
00:26:53
you know, organization CBS News, congratulations to Bari on her taking it over and her sale to the free press to
00:27:00
CBS. Only 17% of Americans believe Trump is making them better. This came out this week and 58% don't want the
00:27:07
National Guard in our cities. People oppose what Trump is doing right now and he is at an all-time low. So, you have
00:27:14
to ask yourself why. And uh I think this is because he's drifted from the 2.0 policies. Closing the border, very
00:27:20
popular, lower taxes, no taxes on tips, extremely popular, pro business, pro- innovation. Thank you, Saxs. You're
00:27:26
correct. This all is the best of Trump. Doge reducing spending. The best of
00:27:32
Trump and relentlessly trying to stop wars and apparently on the cusp of
00:27:37
succeeding with the one in Gaza right now. This is what Americans, including
00:27:44
myself, moderates, really like about Trump. What don't we like about the Trump 1.0 platform, the violence of
00:27:50
January 6th, ICE agents in masks, beating powerless hardworking immigrants, sending in the National
00:27:57
Guards, if you remember from the first administration, the kids in cages, the Muslim immigration ban, pardoning all
00:28:04
the January 6 riders who beat police savagely trying to overturn election results. This is what people don't like.
00:28:10
They don't like the chaos. And what Americans do love is they love the Constitution. And uh you know they they
00:28:18
love the rule of law. This is where he can do really well. 85% of Americans have a favorable opinion of the
00:28:25
Constitution and 94% say it's really important to protect liberty and freedom. And what these actions and when
00:28:32
you see Pam Bondi and you see Steven Miller, Trump's ratings go down. when
00:28:37
you see Lutnik, you see Bessant, you see Sachs, you see Elon and Doge, his approval ratings go up. And so I would
00:28:45
like to lobby my friends who are in the administration or around it and the
00:28:50
people I know in the administration to think through this because what's at stake is the midterms. The Democrats are
00:28:58
going to shellac the Republicans in the midterms if this continues. Nobody wants this type of violence. Nobody wants to
00:29:05
see people beaten. Nobody wants to see mothers thrown on the ground as their
00:29:10
children are crying just because they came here 20 years ago, 10 years ago when Republicans Republicans who were
00:29:17
the biggest proponents of letting people in from Mexico to work here because we needed cheap labor. We as Americans have
00:29:24
an obligation to these people who we brought into this country to treat them with compassion and we're not doing that. And that's my little monologue
00:29:32
here. You heard from Brad that the deportations have basically mean reverted.
00:29:39
So do you think that there were the same category of people being deported before
00:29:44
as in now and that there's just less press coverage and it was okay then and it's not okay now or just explain this
00:29:50
idea of mean reversion and whether we're getting the same and right people out of the country that we've been doing for
00:29:55
the last 20 years. Yeah. So what you're seeing is many lawsuits now of people who are Americans
00:30:00
or who are properly documented now suing ICE cuz the way they're pursuing this with their masks and just randomly going
00:30:07
after people and racially profiling people is resulting in the wrong people being picked up. And that's really what
00:30:13
I find the the most offensive about it. I don't mind obviously the border being closed. I I said that many times here. I
00:30:19
don't mind criminals being deported. I think that's a great idea. But I think we should look at the economics of this
00:30:25
as well. We're spending $30 billion on ICE now. We've tripled the budget. We're spending $100,000
00:30:32
per person deported. Okay, that's a large number. If we simply find that
00:30:38
79year-old car wash owner $10,000 every time he
00:30:44
hires, you know, an illegal alien, this would stop. There are much better ways to
00:30:50
execute this. And so I have to ask myself, what is the intent of this violence? What is the intent of sending
00:30:56
the National Guard in? Is it actually a pure intent of wanting safety and security? I don't believe that's all
00:31:02
that's at work here. And then a follow-up question. What do you think is the difference between Wes Moore, the governor of Maryland,
00:31:09
sending in state troops and Donald Trump, the president of the United States, sending in federal troops into a
00:31:14
state to help diminish crime? Yeah. It would be the Constitution and the United States of America, not a
00:31:22
federal government ruling over all 50 states. The way this was set up by the
00:31:28
founding fathers was that the states had rights and amongst those rights is the security of the people in that state.
00:31:34
It's a very rare situation. So your your issue or not your issue but your diagnosis would be what Wesmore is
00:31:40
doing is right. JB should probably do that too. I I would even take it a little further.
00:31:46
Yeah, I I think actually the the best thing to do if Trump is intent on saying, "Hey, crime's out of control in San
00:31:51
Francisco," which we all experienced and you guys continue to experience if you're if you're in the city.
00:31:56
I don't live in the city. I find you don't even But if people did go to the city, I think what I would do if I
00:32:03
was the governor, I say, "You know what? We could use your help and we're going to call up the National Guard ourselves and we could use some help in these 17
00:32:09
locations. We'd love to collaborate with you." So, it's not an outcome thing for you. It's a procedural process that says it
00:32:15
needs to go through a different pathway. It's the violence and the cruelty of it that I object to and it's the
00:32:20
inefficiency in terms of the cost of it. I don't believe that mothers should be separated from their from their children
00:32:27
or their fathers should be separated from their children. I don't believe it should be done in a brutal way and doesn't need to be. It could very easily
00:32:33
be done with other tactics. And that is what I I take great offense to is both of those things. The inefficiency of it
00:32:39
and then also I take offense to the derailing of the Trump 2.0 0 agenda, which I was in favor of, and I will call
00:32:44
balls and strikes when Trump tips back into those authoritarian tendencies that the Trump 1.0 agenda that I've talked
00:32:51
about. I'm not in favor of that. I don't like it. I would much prefer to see us be compassionate to immigrants. I would
00:32:58
much rather see us take a softer hand and a path to these folks who've been here for 20 or 30 years. I'd see I'd
00:33:03
like to see a path to them to become citizens because I think immigr this country was built by immigrants for
00:33:09
immigrants and I believe we should continue that. But it should be legal immigration and if people were here illegally because Republicans and
00:33:16
Democrats who are super in favor of NAFTA wanted them here, we should take
00:33:21
ownership of that and be kind and compassionate to them and give them a path if they're not criminals and if
00:33:27
they pay their taxes, which almost universally they do, we should give them a path to citizenship.
00:33:35
All right. Well, the first thing I want to do is point out that you mentioned that Doge was one of the most wonderful
00:33:40
and popular things that President Trump did. And I agree that it was a great thing that he did. Basically trying to
00:33:46
streamline the government and make it more efficient. But it was not popular. It was had only a 35% approval rating
00:33:51
while 57% disapproved. Why is that? because the media pounded on Doge and
00:33:57
Elon and turned him into a villain and tried to mischaracterize what he was trying to do and blamed him for every
00:34:03
possible thing that was supposedly going wrong in the federal government. So, look, obviously the polling is not
00:34:09
always a great indicator even when it is accurate and I remember
00:34:16
when Anne Seltzer told us that Trump was going to lose Iowa by 10. So, obviously these pollsters often have no idea what
00:34:22
they're talking about. In terms of the merits of this, you're completely ignoring the fact that there are lawless
00:34:29
mobs who are the ones creating the violence. Not our law enforcement officers, not ICE, not DHS. In the city
00:34:37
of downtown Portland, for example, you have literal Antifa terrorists who are
00:34:42
extremely organized. They're aggressive and they're well funded. This is not just some sort of rag tag bunch. The
00:34:48
White House uncovered a bunch of leftwing NOS's who are funding Antifa along with other leftist protest groups.
00:34:55
These NOS's have laundered over hund00 million of our money to fund terrorist violence in our streets. Antifa even has
00:35:02
a safe house near the epicenter of the unrest in downtown Portland that local
00:35:08
cops and local media know about, but nothing's being done. And it's this group that has basically terrorized
00:35:15
downtown Portland and led to violent assaults, not our law enforcement officers. But when this violence breaks
00:35:21
out because of Antifa, then the media blames the Trump administration for it. So I'm not surprised that the polling
00:35:28
reflects that because that that's what the media does. But look, the bottom line here is what is the policy that the
00:35:34
Trump administration should pursue? And previous administrations have pursued
00:35:39
deportations and so has the Trump administration. I don't think you can have 10 to 15 million illegal immigrants
00:35:46
allowed during the Biden years and then just say there's going to be an amnesty. I mean, what are we supposed to do? This
00:35:52
situation was not created by Trump. It was created by Biden. They opened up the border. There were holes in the border
00:35:58
walls. Millions of people streamed through. They were bust all over the country. Trump won on fixing that
00:36:05
problem and deportations were part of the mandate. Now he's doing it. can't just be a one-way ratchet. When the
00:36:11
Republicans are in power, they close the border. And then when the Democrats are in power, they open it up, allow 10, 15
00:36:16
million illegals in, and then we can do nothing about it when we take power. No, that's not the way this works. There has
00:36:22
to be a correction to what Biden did, which was outrageous. And I remember
00:36:27
plenty of liberals while that was going on, they were saying that the videos we saw on Fox News were cherrypicked. They
00:36:34
said that there was no real situation at the border. We were gas lit constantly about it. Whereas every single person
00:36:39
who actually visited the border said the same thing that it was outrageous that Biden had opened up the border that
00:36:44
people are streaming through. They were running through and Trump won on a
00:36:50
mandate of fixing this problem. And now that he is fixing it, what we have people do is claim that he's the source
00:36:57
of the violence. No. Antifa and leftwing riers are the source of the violence. You don't see this violence in red
00:37:02
cities and you don't even see it in in the blue cities which have offered to cooperate with Trump like Memphis or
00:37:09
like DC. So when you see cooperation from these cities, they are actually cleaning them up. But in Chicago and in
00:37:16
Portland, you have violent protesters and that is the source of the problem. And the media can blame it all on Trump
00:37:22
as much as they want, but fundamentally that is what's going on. Okay, let's move on to our next topic. Anybody else? I'm surprised as someone
00:37:28
who normally supports law enforcement that you're not backing these guys up.
00:37:33
Oh, I I support law enforcement. I do not think they should um do it the way they're doing it. It's the violence.
00:37:40
It's the cruelty that I object to. Okay. I don't mind people being held accountable for crossing the border. I
00:37:45
don't mind the deportations. I do think How do you think it should be done, Jacob?
00:37:51
Yeah. So a very simple method would be if you went to people who are employing and because the people who are here
00:37:58
illegal are here to build a better life for their families and to live the American dream. That's why they're here.
00:38:04
They're here to get a job and to have a better life for their children if they are working illegally. And so they're
00:38:11
here. These are the most industrious people I've ever met in my life. Immigrants, including the two of you.
00:38:16
Most industrious people are the immigrants. Uh we know that. And so a very simple way to do this if you wanted
00:38:22
to do it without cruelty and without burning $100,000 per person is to go to
00:38:27
where they're being employed. And if you saw this terrible video of a 79y old man being tackled by two ICE agents and he's
00:38:34
suing the government for 50 million. That's not the way to do it. You go to that car wash. You say, "I'd like to see
00:38:39
everybody's paper." Everybody runs. They show you the papers. whichever person is not actually employed there legally and
00:38:46
who doesn't have their papers, you give a $10,000 fine and then you come back the next day and you give a $20,000 fine. And if you did that, this would be
00:38:54
incredibly effective and you wouldn't have the brutality you have under no circumstances. And I've talked to many
00:39:00
of my relatives who are cops and many of my friends, they look at what ICE is doing and they see it as being
00:39:06
unnecessarily brutal. All you have to do is go to where they're working and give
00:39:11
the fines and then round people up who are in fact criminals. No problem with
00:39:16
any gang members or any felons to be taken down and to sometimes you have to
00:39:22
do that with force obviously if they're criminals. But for everybody else, we can do this compassionately and we can
00:39:27
do it much more efficiently. We could do it by just paying people to self-deport and we could increase that rate. And
00:39:33
actually that actually has been working. The story hasn't been told yet. I think we'll see that in the statistics that of the three or 4 hundred thousand people
00:39:39
we wind up deporting probably a third of them are going to be people who self- deepported and we we'll we'll share
00:39:45
those statistics here as we go but it's the violence I'll just note that in DC DC is the city
00:39:50
where Trump was first able to basically get involved in trying to stop the crime
00:39:57
because he was able to bring in the National Guard and everyone understands the feds run DC so he has a free hand.
00:40:03
Have we seen any of the problems that we're talking about in DC? No, we haven't. It's calm. People can go out at
00:40:08
night. They're going to restaurants again. The citizens are happy. Why?
00:40:14
Because the things you're talking about are the result of violent Antifa protests in Chicago and Portland.
00:40:20
Because the local politicians like JB Pritzkar have an incentive to blame
00:40:26
everything on Trump and they've been turning a blind eye to these local gangs who are creating all the problems. Yeah,
00:40:33
we're in a strong agreement that Antifa and I'll add to it, the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers,
00:40:38
who brought tons of guns to the capital and uh who ran January 6. I agree with
00:40:46
you. All of those radical organizations should be handled. Uh we're in strong agreement. And just the fact that you're bringing up the nonsequator of January 6 tells me that
00:40:53
you've lost this debate. I'm not looking to to win a debate with you, Sex. I'm not in the debate club,
00:40:58
but you can win whatever debate you want. I'm just giving my opinion. But the more and just to give a little
00:41:03
nuance here with the Doge thing, I agree that it was unpopular with the libs, but what I what I was talking about was the
00:41:10
moderates who won Trump the election this year, which you had a big part in, David. You you turned a lot of the
00:41:15
moderates uh you know, the fiscally conservative but socially liberals uh in our community, the tech community,
00:41:21
you're directly responsible for that. I might argue this podcast and you and Chimamoth and your support of Trump and
00:41:27
the 2.0 agenda was a big part of him getting elected. I've heard from people in and around the administration, they believe that that was a key part in
00:41:34
their success this time. So, when I say that uh people were in support of Doge, I'm talking specifically about moderates
00:41:40
and the people who backed the Trump 2.0 agenda just to clean that up. I do agree with you that uh yeah uh but you can roll your
00:41:46
eyes. Well, my point is I'm not trying to win a debate with you. I'm just telling you my my opinion. Polls can give us interesting
00:41:52
information, but they're also a snapshot in time. And what really matters is the results of the policies. And I think that if you look at DC, hold
00:41:58
on. You look at DC just a couple of months ago before Trump went in, the left was basically shrieking hysterically that it was authoritarian,
00:42:05
that it was fascist and so forth and so on. They had all these arguments. It's going to be brutal the population. Trump
00:42:10
goes in there and it's worked amazingly well. I will let you have word and
00:42:15
I don't think we should be abandoning the poor populations of these inner cities to the predatory crime that
00:42:22
they've been subjected to for decades that their Democrat politicians have done absolutely nothing about. Quite
00:42:27
frankly, these cities are something like 9010 Democrat. If we can just make them 7525,
00:42:32
then I don't think Republicans will lose elections anymore. So, I'm glad Trump is trying to do this. We've seen these
00:42:38
examples over and over again. This is why Wes Moore is doing what he's doing. Exactly. I think the tactic works and I think
00:42:45
Jason, we are moving away from whether the tactic works or not to who is trying to frame themselves to take the credit.
00:42:52
And if you look at the Democratic path to the presidency, we've heard this before, but Wes is sort of at the front
00:42:58
of the line. And I think he's seen that this is the right place to be on this
00:43:05
point. So I think it's like he doesn't want the success if it doesn't acrew to him.
00:43:12
That's why he sent in state troops in Maryland into all the hot spots. I think what will be interesting is in three or
00:43:18
four months from now when we see the incremental crime stats data and whether
00:43:24
we see Wes wrap that up in a big bow and say look what I did and I think if you
00:43:30
do see that then I think what you will have seen is a successful policy that was co-opted at the state level because
00:43:37
they want to take the credit for it and you'll find an adequate number of journalists who will want to paint that
00:43:42
as a oh wow look at this invention that has happened But the artifact will be that Trump initiated and instigated it.
00:43:50
Now, if people copy it, that's a smart thing to do if it works. Absolutely. You cannot deny that uh law
00:43:56
and order is at the top of everybody's list in terms of just living a productive life. All right, next up on
00:44:03
the agenda. Oh, Bestie Brad, you're going to love this one. AMD and OpenAI just closed a massive GPU deal. Could be
00:44:10
worth 60 billion or more over the next 5 years. Obviously, uh, two companies are are run by friends of the pod. Lisa from
00:44:16
AMD and Sam from OpenAI, both been on the pod. AMD stock rocketed up 35% since
00:44:23
the announcement. OpenAI committed to purchasing six gawatts worth of AMD's
00:44:28
nextg GPUs. A little bit of an interesting wrinkle here. AMD granted OpenAI warrants. Okay, that's
00:44:35
interesting. For up to 160 million shares or 10% of the companies. And with that massive increase in their stock
00:44:42
price, Brad, I think this means that OpenAI is going to get a lot of GPUs
00:44:47
essentially for free. Big dialogue has started, Brad, around
00:44:52
these roundtpping conflicted party transactions. Is that how some people
00:44:58
would describe them, specifically the SEC? Do you have concerns about the AI
00:45:04
trade and the amount of circulation of shares, GPUs, and cash that's going on
00:45:12
right now, and I know you're in the thick of this. Yeah. And and maybe before we get into roundtpping and circular revenues, which
00:45:18
I do want to hit, I think it's super important that we talk about that. Let's just break down the deal a little bit because there's a lot going on and I
00:45:25
think it I think it's important we put context around it. So, first, this is a bet the farm bet by Lisa Sue, right?
00:45:31
She's given away 10% of the company if the compute gets deployed. She said a couple weeks ago, we're in year two of
00:45:38
10 of a compute buildout across the country. So, I I I have a couple charts
00:45:43
here. Why would she make a bet the farm bet, Jason? Right, that's an important question. Remember, Nvidia just did a
00:45:49
huge deal with OpenAI. They didn't give away any of their company. In fact, they got the right to buy
00:45:54
part of OpenAI. So, look at this chart. This is pretty wild. Just in 22,
00:46:00
in 2022, two and a half years ago, Nvidia and AMD had basically the same
00:46:05
revenue, $25 billion, right? This year, Nvidia will do 10x that at roughly, you
00:46:12
know, 210, $230 billion, and AMD will do 33 billion, right? Not much more than
00:46:19
they were doing when the companies were tied in 2022. So Nvidia's captured
00:46:24
nearly 100% of the incremental AI data center revenues over the course of the
00:46:30
last 2 and 1/2 years. And I think there's this notion that somehow Nvidia just popped out this special AI chip.
00:46:36
But I think if you listen to Jensen, understand study the company, it's because they have this ecosystem of
00:46:42
software, networking, extreme code design. The unit of compute is no longer the chip, right? It's the entire data
00:46:48
center which is composed of, you know, 5 to 10 different chips. Performance per
00:46:54
watt, right? Power being the constrained resource here is everything. And Nvidia's just crushed the competition.
00:47:00
So now put yourself in the shoes of Lisa, right? And she's clearly not on
00:47:06
the wave. This tsunami has come. Jensen's riding it. He's capturing 100%
00:47:11
of the wave and she's not even yet on the wave. Her MI350 was just not competitive. And so they have one shot.
00:47:18
Either the MI450 gets adopted and they get back into the game, right? Or or or
00:47:24
they're out. She's a total warrior. I think she believes in the 450. She went
00:47:30
to her board and she said, "Listen, this is we got to take the shot here. We got to bet the farm. If it works, she's
00:47:36
going to get 150 billion of incremental revenue just from OpenAI, right, for
00:47:42
building out 5 gawatt. And on top of that, of course, it could unlock a lot of the other market because now it will
00:47:47
have validated that they have a a a chip that works. But it's far from a done
00:47:53
deal, far from a conclusion whether the 450 is going to work. Can it compete against Vera Rubin? Can it compete
00:47:59
against uh Reuben Ultra? All super important questions. So that's one you
00:48:05
you know that that's the AMD deal. Why have we switched from saying oh Colossus bought you know XAI's data
00:48:12
center 100,000 H100s 200,000 H100s to now framing these in gigawatts. I think
00:48:18
it's important for people to understand why that's now how deals are being framed just in the last 3 months has
00:48:24
changed. Yeah I think I think there are a couple constraining features. Number one chips change right? So 100,000 H100s is not,
00:48:32
you know, is not apples for apples with the number of GB200s, you know, Grace Blackwell 200s or GB300s. And so it's
00:48:39
hard to talk about them. You're comparing apples and oranges when you're comparing these data centers. So a
00:48:44
unifying metric of compare, right, is the the the power that goes in.
00:48:49
Everything starts with the power. It's the constrained resource. So we can compare a gigawatt of power because it's
00:48:56
remember it's power in and it's tokens out and we can compare that over time
00:49:02
and normalize across all these different chips and it's not just these two companies you got tranium by Amazon TPU
00:49:08
by Google Cerebrris Gro etc. there are a lot of folks in this game. And so again,
00:49:15
I think what you saw this week in this flurry of announcements, right, is that
00:49:20
you have the market leader that's basically captured 90 to 100% of the incremental demand for the biggest thing
00:49:27
that the the data center and the chip market has ever seen. And every other
00:49:32
player is looking at what they have to do to have a shot to capture part of this wave, their high-risisk, highreward
00:49:39
bets. The other thing I would say is, and again, shut me up and anybody can jump in if they want to, but I want to
00:49:46
decompose. We're hearing these estimates of 100 gawatt, four to five trillion of
00:49:52
buildout over the course of the next four years. If you look at that same chart I just showed you, that's not what
00:49:58
Wall Street estimates are, right? There is a lot of disbelief on Wall Street as
00:50:03
to what's going to get built out. So if you look at that estimate, you know, starting in 2027, it basically flatlines
00:50:10
27 through 29 for Nvidia, right? Less than 10% keger in terms of the growth
00:50:15
for Nvidia. They have by 2029 them doing 360 billion in revenue compared to 210
00:50:23
billion of revenue this year. To put it in gigawatt perspectives, that means going from four to five gigs per year in
00:50:29
25 to 9 gigs in 29. That's a big step up, but a long way from the 100
00:50:35
gigawatts you were hearing, you know, bantered about on CNBC this week. That's for a different reason. Nick, put
00:50:41
this put this quote up there, which is this famous quote from Nathan Rothschild where he said, "I care not what puppet
00:50:47
is placed upon the throne of England to rule the empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain's
00:50:54
money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply." Why is that quote so interesting as
00:51:01
applied to AI? I think that what you're going to see and you're seeing it in those revenue
00:51:07
graphs is that there is a traffic jam that's happening in growth where it
00:51:14
won't be the ability to actually build nextgen silicon, but it'll be the energy inputs that will
00:51:20
constrain it and it will be the ingredient inputs that constrain growth. And so the companies that then control
00:51:28
those elements of the supply chain will actually come into power and rise to power. So what is one example of this?
00:51:36
One example of this is when you look at the architecture of Nvidia's chips, one of the things that they have made a huge
00:51:42
bet on is HBM. And this is a memory structure. And what's so interesting about that is when you look at the HBM
00:51:48
market, it is effectively Nvidia who takes up the majority, the majority
00:51:53
majority and then Google. And now AMD's next architecture actually
00:52:01
needs to sit on top of HBM. Now they're going to have to go and step into that supply chain and try to ask for share.
00:52:09
Where will that share come from? And this is where the people that then control that supply, SKH Highix and
00:52:16
Samsung will have leverage. Now, this is what's interesting about a deal that OpenAI announced two or three weeks ago.
00:52:23
Sam was in Korea and you saw him shaking hands with SKHix and Samsung. And my
00:52:29
initial thought then was why is OpenAI doing a deal with the memory maker and then it occurred to me, wow, he's buying
00:52:35
forward capacity on HBM because now he can allocate that share. So when I saw that deal and I saw that equity, it
00:52:42
reminded me of this Rothschild quote. Sam has allocation and now Sam can
00:52:48
allocate allocation and then as a result get a tax and I believe that the
00:52:53
warrants and the equity are effectively that. What's a different example? Brad mentioned this before, but energy will
00:53:00
be the gating item beyond a shadow of a doubt. And so if you control electrons,
00:53:06
any form of electrons, hydrocarbon to electron, electron to electron, photon to electron, doesn't matter, you will
00:53:13
then be in a position to start asking for equity, upside, participation in
00:53:19
these companies in a way that you could never do before. You would just have been a linear member of the supply
00:53:26
chain, a low margin participant. So when I look at where we are, I think
00:53:31
that the really interesting question now is to ask what is the second and third order degree inputs that are critical to
00:53:39
allowing the big foundational model makers to allowing Nvidia to allowing AMD Broadcom to thrive and that is where
00:53:48
I would start to look because those that control those resources are going to dictate the pace and the scale of this
00:53:54
AI expansion. Okay, coming around the horn here to you, our Zar of AI, David
00:53:59
Saxs. When you see this massive amount of deal making occurring, it's got to warm your heart a bit. American
00:54:05
exceptionalism at work here, people swinging for the fences. What's your take on Brad and Chimat's
00:54:12
overview of where we're at here in the fall of 2025 in the AI race?
00:54:18
Yeah, I I don't really like to take sides on these deals for the obvious reason that we want to be supportive of
00:54:24
everybody and just have a healthy environment for competition. So, as long as there's
00:54:31
investment going on and as long as there's a lot of competition, those are good things. That's what we want to see. So, I tend to think this OpenAI AMD deal
00:54:38
is evidence of that. There was the OpenAI Nvidia deal. There was the Nvidia XAI deal. There's just a ton of
00:54:45
investment going on and that's what we want to see. So that's all really good news. I was struck by Brad's chart about
00:54:51
Nvidia's revenue in the out years. The amount of capex or investments going to go into data centers and compute more
00:54:58
than a few years from now. I think that's really hard to predict. Impossible, right? Yeah,
00:55:03
very hard because on the demand side of the compute, it's going to depend on new
00:55:09
applications that get created. So for example, the demand for tokens depends not just on AI chat bots, but on the new
00:55:17
agents that are coming along. You have these new video generation models, Sora, and now XAI's just released something.
00:55:24
So we don't really know what the demand for tokens is going to be. I think it's going to be huge. I think there's a lot of applications that haven't even been
00:55:31
invented yet. We are in the very early stages are going to drive demand. It's a little bit like in the early days of the
00:55:37
internet, we had this dotcom bubble where everyone thought there had been too much fiber built out and then all the fiber ended up being used because,
00:55:44
you know, social networking came along, Facebook came along, YouTube came along. When all that original fiber in the '90s
00:55:52
was built out, they didn't even know that photos and videos were going to be a thing. So, the bandwidth eventually all got used up. I think in a similar
00:55:58
way, all of the compute will eventually get used up by new applications. I guess
00:56:04
the thing we don't know is how much more efficient will the infrastructure get at
00:56:10
producing these tokens. So that would be the offsetting factor is yes the chips are getting so much better. I mean we're moving faster than Moore's law
00:56:16
here. Every year Nvidia is releasing a new generation of chips and it's doing inference at multiple
00:56:23
times the efficiency of the previous year on I guess a token per watt basis
00:56:29
or whatever you want to measure it. So that's an offsetting factor. And then there could be um more efficiencies
00:56:34
created in the model architectures with um sparser architectures. So those will be offsetting factors as all the
00:56:41
efficiencies we get. But then you have to you know if I'm kind of arguing with myself then you've got the Jevans
00:56:47
paradox which is as the cost per token comes down more and more that's going to enable AI to be used in more and more
00:56:54
context where previously it wasn't economically efficient now it will be. So that's going to fuel the demand. I
00:56:59
mean, David, David, I think this is a huge boom. Yeah. Yeah. Your point is a your point is a great one. Everybody's looking for the
00:57:06
bubble, right? We've got this pattern recognition. Everybody's like, "What? It's dark fiber. It's got to be dark fiber. There's no way that you can 10x
00:57:13
your revenues at Nvidia without it being, you know, a bubble." But the reality today is Nvidia trades at a
00:57:19
lower price to earnings multiple than it did when it was $200 a share. Think about what the term dark fiber means. We
00:57:26
were laying fiber in the ground that remained dark. We did not have the demand for the fiber. There is not a
00:57:33
dark GPU in the world today. There's not going to be a dark GPU in the world next year. Good point. There's no dark GPU.
00:57:40
I don't think that's the question. I think the question is what is the ROI
00:57:45
on input and output tokens per use case? What is the ROI of a random use of a
00:57:53
model? And I think that that is a very good question. How many of those tokens are generally gross margin negative? How
00:58:00
many of those are unprofitable? How many of those are profitable? And I think that's what they're trying to ask when
00:58:06
they ask that question. They may just not know the technical intricacies to ask it that way. But I think that's what
00:58:11
people are trying to debate when they're trying to guess. And I don't think we totally yet know. And just two things I wanted to add
00:58:17
here. There are other solutions which have not yet hit the ground. I mentioned Bit Tensor. I think it's an open source
00:58:22
project that's worth looking into. I started a little fund of my own with my own capital to start exploring this
00:58:28
because there are going to be other solutions that come to fill all of this Javans paradox that's happening.
00:58:35
Chimach, your thoughts? Yeah. Well, I think the thing to remember is token generation is this very
00:58:40
complicated quadratic that just consumes a ton of power. Yeah. And there really is no way to ignore the
00:58:50
fact that even with more complicated capabilities, the models are becoming much more
00:58:57
complicated. These context windows are getting longer or bigger. And so I just think that we are in this
00:59:03
massive massive capital race. And unfortunately I think what that will
00:59:08
create is the need for all of these other things. Like for example, there may be architectures where you just have
00:59:14
to use SRAMM because you can't get HBM. I don't think we know what that does to
00:59:21
a whole bunch of these use cases today because it may just be completely unperformant.
00:59:26
Separately, I think Meta was the one that published this. There's a big disconnect right now in the market
00:59:32
around the failure rates of certain classes of hardware and not at the chip level because at the chip level these
00:59:38
things are really performant but at the server rack system level these things are you know failing 9 to 20% of the
00:59:46
time that's very complicated how do you deal with all of that and how do you deal with these cascading failures all these
00:59:52
things because we are pushing the boundaries of physics we're at you know two and three nanometer scale yields are
00:59:58
good not Okay. All of these things I think have to get worked up and that's what makes it such a great opportunity and so exciting I think.
01:00:04
Brad, let's talk about the TAM. I've been working a bit on what is the TAM of this. And in the modern developed world,
01:00:11
what we used to call the first world, you got about 500 million business users. They spend on average, Brad,
01:00:17
about $3,000 on SAS products. So if you were to just put those numbers together,
01:00:22
it it gets pretty large pretty quick. trillions of dollars in revenue for
01:00:28
those users. And if you look at consumers and just use an analogy maybe Brad I think be interested if you think
01:00:34
this is a valid one. Consumers pay for you know Netflix and Disney Plus whatever it is probably a couple hundred
01:00:41
a year. So then you have a billion users in the developed world. I'm not counting frontier markets and the developing
01:00:47
world. We're talking about a TAM that's going to be a couple of trillion dollars a year. I think you would agree. So the
01:00:53
buildout of a trillion dollars doesn't seem as farical if that is in fact the
01:00:58
prize. And I think I've set the tab very well. Wait, hold on. It's not it's not a trillion. That's just the capex, then
01:01:03
you have to think of what the opex is. The opex is probably the same multiplied by the useful life, which is probably 20
01:01:10
years. So if you think there's a billion of capex going in, you have to expect that there's a trillion capex, sorry,
01:01:15
trillion of capex going in. There's tens of trillions of opex over the useful life of all of this stuff. upgrade
01:01:20
cycles, people, power, water. So, it's a much bigger spend than we think. So, we
01:01:27
have to be careful that we're not underestimating, frankly. Absolutely. And then there's what the life of these are, right, Brad? Like,
01:01:33
what is the use for like Corewave thinks these things last four years? Well, they six. They underwite to six.
01:01:38
They're at six. Other people are saying four. So, that seems a little challenged, too. Here's a rule of thumb
01:01:44
is that each gigawatt data center is about $50 billion of investment roughly
01:01:52
between the chips, the land power shell. It's about 50 billion per gigawatt. And
01:01:57
you have, you know, open AAI and Elon, they're talking about scaling to 10 gawatt data
01:02:03
centers. That's a $500 billion investment. I think that's right. Per data center if it gets that big. I mean to be clear they're still working
01:02:09
on the 1 gawatt data centers but from there they're going to go to 2 or 3 gawatts next year and then from there
01:02:16
probably to five over the next couple of years. So you could get to a 10 gawatt in I don't know probably 5 years
01:02:23
something like that. Brad's kind of convinced me that we should all be taking the over on this as he usually does.
01:02:28
Welcome home Brad. We appreciate you. When I think about Nvidia's market, I think the big question to me is I so I
01:02:35
would bet the over on demand because I think that it's very hard to underwrite demand for applications that don't exist
01:02:40
yet, but I'm confident they will be there. The thing I don't know about their business is whether the GPU market
01:02:46
bifurcates between training and inference. I think everyone understands that Nvidia has by far the best training
01:02:53
chips, but there's a lot of competitors including Chimamath company Gro and
01:02:59
there's Cerebras and obviously AMD wants to compete and then obviously Huawei is
01:03:06
is kind of a wild card there. We can talk about that. And then obviously I should mention all the the AS6 that the
01:03:11
big AI companies are. Yeah, using Broadcom IP, you've got the Google TPUs
01:03:16
and you know, Brad, you mentioned Tranium, which is Amazon's chip, and I think Open AI wants to develop their own
01:03:21
chip. So, I think the question is given that inference will be 99% of the market and training is only 1%. Could Nvidia be
01:03:29
in a situation where they've got training locked up, but when it comes to inference, there's just a lot of other
01:03:34
alternatives because people have developed cheaper inference chips. I'm not saying that's going to happen. To me, that would be the big question.
01:03:40
Well, I mean, listen, you know. Yeah. You know, I think first I go back to the point you made. We're at this
01:03:46
critical juncture in a global AI race and we should all be celebrating the fact that there is this level of
01:03:52
investment going on in the United States. This is the definition of creative destruction. It won't all work.
01:03:58
But the risk capital, the entrepreneurial boldness of SAM and Nvidia and Lisa, this is what's going to
01:04:06
keep us ahead in the global AI race. None of this would be happening if Washington had not unlocked power.
01:04:13
Jensen said this on on my podcast or our podcast last week, you know, on this. We've unlocked power. We've unlocked
01:04:20
capital. People are now able to underwrite to these deals. So, first, I just think that this is incredible. We
01:04:25
have this level of competition in terms of Nvidia's ability to stay ahead um of of everybody else. Listen, I think at
01:04:32
the end of the day, it's power in and it's tokens out. It's perf per watt. If I've talked to many CFOs of hyperscalers
01:04:39
and they said you could price the competitor chips at zero. Jensen said this publicly many times. Price the
01:04:46
competitor chips at zero and it's still more effective and uh economic decision
01:04:51
to choose Nvidia. And I think that's what it comes down to. They have to be at perf per watt because power is the
01:04:57
constrained resource. Going back to what Chimas said. Okay. I want you to just give me a number Brad. The total TAM of this in
01:05:04
five years. What's the in the modern world? What's the spend going to be? Just think about that for a second. I think I think Jason, I think you made
01:05:11
a great point about about total TAM. We see about a hundred billion already in incremental generative AI revenue in
01:05:18
2026. That has to grow to well over a trillion by 2030. If you look at it on a
01:05:24
top downs basis, $125 trillion global GDP. If you get a 10% improvement in
01:05:30
productivity, that's 12 trillion a year of productivity improvements. If you get a 5%, that's five or six trillion.
01:05:37
That's what's leading MASA and Sam and others to place these these heroic bets. Okay, great. We just have to lightning
01:05:44
round this. Here is the roundtpping discussion that people are obsessed
01:05:49
with. Nvidia at the center of this uh a $4.5 trillion company, largest company in the world. And as you can see here
01:05:56
between XAI, OpenAI making language models, AMD, uh, Intel, Coreweave
01:06:04
standing up data centers, you know, and so many other companies. Oracle is obviously in the mix with
01:06:09
their cloud, Google with their cloud, Gemini, uh, they have their own chips as well. What do we take away from what we
01:06:18
all saw, Chimath and I, up close and personal with AOL and and their partnerships? And I guess I'll start
01:06:23
with you here, Chimoth. Is this analogous to the roundtpping we saw on the dotcom era? Are these conflicted
01:06:29
party transactions concerning to you at any level? Is CNBC and everybody hand ringing about this over their skis or is
01:06:37
it a legitimate concern? I'm not sure that they're framing the concern properly. There are a lot of industries
01:06:43
where these things are standard practice and well accepted.
01:06:49
One example that was explained to me this week was how the auto OEMs dealt
01:06:54
with car dealers, their car dealer networks, where you would give what's called the floor loan, where if you're
01:07:00
trying to sell a Ford F-150, you give your dealership a loan. They then buy the car, it pulls forward the revenue
01:07:06
for Ford, then the dealer goes and sells the car to you, and you know, they take
01:07:11
the ARB and they pay the financing cost. So, this kind of stuff has been wellestablished for a long time. So I
01:07:18
think what I would rather ask is where is the PCAOB expert that says this is
01:07:24
not good. I just think that these are too complicated for me to understand. They get into the vagaries of accounting law. But I suspect that these companies
01:07:31
are well advised and I think that there are other
01:07:38
industries that have been doing it for many years and I think that if there was a real issue it would have been exposed
01:07:46
much sooner quite honestly. You say PCAOB public company Accounting Oversight Board. Yeah.
01:07:52
Like I mean I just think there there's just and by the way there's all the quarterly regulatory filings that are required all the Sarbox compliance
01:07:59
that's required the numbers of auditors that are looking at these things. I think it does come down to the fact that
01:08:05
there are many industries that use this forward flow agreements if you want to call it factoring flowing agreements if
01:08:11
you want to call it that. And I just think that it's newer in our industry but it's important to
01:08:16
acknowledge that it's very well established in many other legacy industries and there's a lot of it all of a sudden. So I guess Brad, the uniqueness to our
01:08:23
industry is one piece or I'll give it to you Sax. The the uniqueness to our industry is one piece and the number of
01:08:28
these is just making people's heads spin a little bit and makes their mind wander. But conflicted party
01:08:35
transactions have to be very well documented, you know, in SEC filings, etc. And these
01:08:40
are largely public companies. But go ahead, Sax. Well, look, these companies all have lots of very expensive lawyers and accountants. So, I'm sure that from a,
01:08:47
you know, GAP standpoint or security standpoint or compliance standpoint,
01:08:52
what they're doing is fine. Now, when people talk about roundtpping, if you want to talk about the the spirit of it,
01:08:58
the underlying concept behind it, I think what it comes down to is that Nvidia is effectively extending credit
01:09:04
to its buyers. Why do they need credit? Because this buildout is so capital intensive. I mean,
01:09:09
Elon, every model is quadratic. It gets worse. They're all running around the world looking for capital. There was a photo
01:09:15
of Sam the other day. I forgot what country he was in. Might have been UAE or Saudi or something. In any event,
01:09:21
they're all looking for as much capital as they can get to fund this buildout. And in certain cases, obviously, Nvidia
01:09:27
is extending effectively credit in exchange for equity or whatever it may be. And I think the question you have to
01:09:34
ask is simply, are these companies that are on the receiving end of this credit effectively
01:09:40
creditw worthy? In other words, will this investment yield economically
01:09:45
viable results? Right? Because if let's say Nvidia extends credit to OpenAI and
01:09:50
then OpenAI then buys chips from Nvidia, Nvidia recognizes that as revenue. The question is is there economic substance
01:09:57
to that or is it basically a shell transaction? And my my view on it is that there is substance to the
01:10:03
transaction because there is downstream demand for AI and the applications that
01:10:08
are eventually going to get built and for the uh APIs that are being put out there for basically the tokens that are being generated. I mean Brad will have
01:10:14
the exact numbers but I think open AAI's revenue ramp rate is it's something like
01:10:20
5 billion to 25 billion to 100 billion. Brad what can you tell us the years on
01:10:26
that? I mean, well, I don't want to get over my dis skis about what's been disclosed, but I think that
01:10:31
Yeah, they'll they'll they'll exit this year at over 20 billion run rate. I think there are a lot of people who think they could hit uh 50 next year and
01:10:39
100 after that. So, this again gets back to your point, David. There's no dark
01:10:44
GPUs in the world today. The tokens are being consumed. Every consumer in the world wants answers. They don't want to
01:10:49
use 10 blue links. Every enterprise wants to deploy this to make their enterprise better. National sovereigns
01:10:55
want to do this in order to advance their military and other other things. I want to come back to this very point. We
01:11:00
should be on the lookout for sham transactions. When you have moments of excitement like this, they of course
01:11:07
will lead to somebody on the edge doing stuff that is a sham. What's a sham? There's no economic substance. There's
01:11:14
no end buyer for your product. So I call up Sachs. I say, "Saxs, I I've got a bunch of inventory. Nobody wants to buy
01:11:20
it. I'm going to wire you a billion dollars. buy a billion dollars of my product, I'll post it to revenue and
01:11:25
we're good to go. It doesn't cost him anything and I get to book a billion in revenue. Clearly a sham, clearly
01:11:31
illegal. Not at all what's occurring in the case with Nvidia. Just put it in perspective. 25 through 27, Nvidia will
01:11:38
generate $450 billion, half a trillion dollar of cash
01:11:43
flow. What they're investing is mice nuts. They are making equity investments
01:11:49
in companies that are mice nuts. It's not credit to these companies. The companies don't, in the case of Open AI,
01:11:55
they don't even have to use Nvidia chips. They just told the world they were going to buy all this AMD, right?
01:12:00
They're rumored to be building their own chips. So, the point of the matter here is, of course, it lubricates the system by making these investments, but they're
01:12:07
tiny equity checks in these companies. I think about it this way. You know, Google Capital is one of the biggest
01:12:13
investors in Dolingo. Dolingo is one of the biggest advertisers on Google. Nobody's crying foul that Google is
01:12:19
somehow roundtpping revenue back into uh you know Google advertising, right? So
01:12:24
long as there is end demand for the product and it's not a sham, I think these things are fine. All right, I think we'll leave it there.
01:12:31
There's going to be a lot more news on this. But people love the picture of the plug plugging itself into its butt
01:12:38
or the or there's another one of a power strip plugged into the power strip. Can you find the plug plugging itself in
01:12:45
the butt? The elephant. Yeah, that that there it is. That's what we're talking about. Yes. I somehow I don't think the
01:12:50
onoff switch is going to make a difference here. By the way, when I whenever I see this, I think, is it dangerous to do that? And
01:12:56
then I remember, no, there's actually no electricity or current, but it it I always think that it is
01:13:02
anyways. I mean, well, I think the concern we'll have is if there's a downdraft, and
01:13:08
right now they're saying, hey, 10 to 30% of a correction the next year is uh, you
01:13:13
know, what people are buzzing about. I guess it's always some percentage of a correction. If there's a correction, some stocks go down, the tide goes out.
01:13:21
Then we figure out who has a sustainable business. And who's wearing shorts and who's not? And that's what happened
01:13:26
exactly in the dotcom bubble. The tide went out. Amazon had enough revenue to continue. Other people did. And some
01:13:32
people maybe they were caught with no shorts in the ocean. Whenever you have a boom like this, there's obviously going to be winners
01:13:38
and losers and there's going to be a lot of losers. But the the question is whether the winners will pay off the the
01:13:44
losers. That's what venture capital requires. But I just think it's amazing how much of a boom is going on. And I
01:13:49
think Brad's made the argument that it hasn't even peaked yet. 40% of US GDP growth this year is AI. And AI companies
01:13:57
have accounted for 80% of the gain in US stocks this year. I know a lot of people are ringing their hands and pointing to
01:14:02
this as like evidence that somehow we're we're in a bubble, but to me it's a
01:14:08
wonderful thing that the US is on the forefront of building out this technological revolution and building
01:14:13
out all this infrastructure. And I think it's ultimately going to pay huge dividends and we just need to not screw
01:14:19
it up. Yeah. And there's just so many people who, I mean, to be honest, just want to screw this up with excessive regulation at the
01:14:25
state level, excessive regulation at the federal level. They want the bureaucracies in Washington to manage
01:14:30
and approve everything. If we go down that path, we could sabotage this. If we just allow it to happen, if we allow the
01:14:38
innovators to do what they do best, I think this is going to drive four or 5% GDP growth for the next few years, it'll
01:14:45
be a really wonderful thing. I mean, it's a great place to wrap. And if only we had somebody who had decades
01:14:51
of experience and had a really logical bent to them about free markets, who could advise our president, we would be
01:14:57
in great shape. Oh, wait. That's sax. Good job. All right, everybody. Gold rally is off the charts. Shout out to
01:15:03
our friend Vinnie Lingham, who told us about this for the last year or two. Jeez, it just broke 4,000 for the first
01:15:10
time ever this week. Up over 50% for the year. Gold's outpacing Bitcoin, which is
01:15:16
up 30% itself. and all the other major indices. NASDAQ's up 19% in the same
01:15:22
time period. S&P 14 down 9%. Silver is surging even more than gold.
01:15:28
There might be some utilization reasons for that. Silver gets used in a a lot of
01:15:33
different components whereas gold very rarely does. At the same time, the US dollar down 8% year to date. Here's a
01:15:41
chart from our friends over at Visual Capitalist about gold versus US
01:15:46
Treasury. something we talked about here. Uh, US treasuries Chimath, you want to take this and then
01:15:52
we'll go to Brad. What are we seeing here with gold? Are is this like a safety trade? Is this an anti-USD
01:15:59
trade? What what what's behind this? Too much money supply? What's happening? No, this is just people confusing
01:16:06
correlation and causation and making stuff up to look smart. Why is gold up? Gold is up because there
01:16:12
are many more net new buyers. Who is the most important net new buyer? It's Tether. Tether has been issuing a stable
01:16:18
coin called Tether Gold where they'll actually custody the gold on your behalf and it's the amount and volumes of it
01:16:24
are rising. At the same time, central banks are rebalancing. And then yet at the same time, you have a lot of macro
01:16:29
funds that have essentially decided that central banks aren't to be trusted and they don't know what to do. And so
01:16:36
they're not necessarily long bonds, they're not necessarily long currencies and so they're long gold. So I think
01:16:42
it's a mixture of things. There's no panacea explanation, but if you had to put it into a couple buckets, it's net
01:16:49
new speculation, net new stable coin related issuance, and a loss of
01:16:55
confidence in central bank policy around the world. And this is uh in some ways a good backs stop, Brad, for governments maybe to
01:17:02
stop spending and maybe a little austerity. You called austerity in the
01:17:08
tech industry in 2021. Thanks for that. I bought a bunch of stocks. that went all in on Facebook and a bunch of other
01:17:14
ones uh when you were talking about this. So, also China seems to be flipping into gold, too. I've been
01:17:20
reading about that. So, what's your take, Brad? Yeah, I mean, listen, there's one there's one camp that says this is all
01:17:27
because the world's falling apart and we're all panicked about global governments balance sheets. I think
01:17:32
that's part of it, but I think Chimath nailed it, right? You got a total change in the new demand picture for gold,
01:17:37
right? as evidenced by we, you know, we have a bitcoin of gold, BTC, you know, Bitcoin, but we also have it in the form
01:17:44
of Tether, right? You're now going to allow people to have exposure to the actual underlying gold by buying a
01:17:49
crypto asset. So, you have new demand for it. You do have people concerned about the state of the world, but it's always been a speculative asset plus a
01:17:57
store of value, right? And I've got a couple charts here. You can throw them up if you want. One is simply looking at
01:18:03
the correlation with the S&P 500 over the last 10 years and the other one's looking at it with US debt. And I I it's
01:18:09
probably chart crime. I'll go back to what Chimas said. I can make up any story I want to make. It tracks the the
01:18:15
growth in US debt. It tracks the growth in risk assets in the S&P 500. The fact of the matter is it's a combination of
01:18:22
all of these things. And hats off to the people who are up 50% this year on gold.
01:18:27
All right. Is that simple Sachs? Anything you want to add? There is one other big factor. I mean, maybe Chimath mentioned this, but China's central bank
01:18:34
has been increasing its gold reserves for 11 consecutive months. They added 40,000 ounces in September alone.
01:18:41
As of the end of September, China's gold reserves totaled 74 million ounces valued at 283 billion. So, they've been
01:18:48
gradually substituting away from US dollars, US treasuries towards gold. And
01:18:54
I, you know, some of this is geopolitical. China is our chief competitor in the world. They probably don't want to be dependent on the dollar
01:19:01
and US treasury. So, they're diversifying away. Also, you can't forget that this trend really started
01:19:07
during the Biden administration with the Ukraine war because the B administration used the US dollar is basically a
01:19:14
geopolitical weapon. They cut off access to Swift. They froze Russian assets and the banking system. And so a lot of
01:19:21
countries look to that and go, "Oh geez, you know, if I am totally reliant on the US dollar complex, then I can be on the
01:19:29
receiving end of US foreign policy that I don't like." And so it was, I think, pretty natural that the BRICS countries
01:19:37
would look at that and start to develop alternatives. And just by the way, when the bricks talk about this currency that
01:19:42
they're going to develop, they're not talking about a man on the street type of currency. The best guess about what
01:19:48
they're going to do is it'll be some sort of goldbacked certificates where they can settle up
01:19:55
huge international trade flows using gold certificates. So that might be part of what's driving this as well. That's a
01:20:01
very long-term project by the bricks countries. I don't think we're going to see anything in the next few years. And that's uh sachs their way of sending
01:20:08
a message to the US. Hey, don't use USD to yank our chain. Yeah. Is that your interpretation? Well, I don't know if
01:20:15
they're trying to send the message or they just don't want to take that risk, right? They understand that if they're part of
01:20:21
the dollar complex and they can be affected by things like cutting off Swift, by sanction, by banking
01:20:27
sanctions, their assets in theory could be seized and so forth and so on. So, obviously, they're going to try and
01:20:34
reduce the possibility of that externality. Yeah, makes total sense. All right, let's wrap on Poly Market. My guy Shane,
01:20:42
friend of the pod, announced that the New York Stock Exchange parent company
01:20:47
IC a different intercontinental exchange had invested 2 billion at a 9 billion
01:20:53
post or somewhere in that range. They will now distribute Poly Market stated at thousands of financial institutions
01:20:59
globally. And it looks like Poly Market will be launched in the US imminently.
01:21:04
There's actually a poly market for poly market being available uh in the US for
01:21:10
trades. Poly market was only founded in 2020. They were valued at 20 at 350
01:21:15
million last year before the election and uh 1.2 billion earlier this year.
01:21:21
Founders Fund made a nice investment. Uh that turned out to be a pretty great trade. 98% chance now that Poly Market
01:21:28
will go live in the US in 2025. I think that's found money right there. I mean,
01:21:33
I'm going to place a bet there. Chimath, your thoughts on this new category and why it's so important for it to exist.
01:21:43
I talked to Jeff Spreer the day he did the investment just to congratulate him. One of the things that he said, which I
01:21:49
think is true, everything is becoming a market. And you're going to see this convergence where eventually you'll have
01:21:56
sports that look like markets. You'll have knowledge that becomes a market. And then you'll ultimately have equities
01:22:02
and debt instruments also behave this way. Meaning they'll be tokenized.
01:22:07
They'll be very funible. You can just take a long or short position on almost
01:22:13
anything. And so I think you're going to see this convergence. What does it mean? I don't
01:22:18
know. But it puts a lot of really interesting assets under the microscope. If you built like a highfrequency
01:22:24
trading organization, what does it mean when all of a sudden some crypto pool shows up and it can do HFT much faster
01:22:30
than you and basically chops the cost to zero because you don't have an infrastructure and a corporate or what
01:22:36
is it going to mean to the betting sites like FanDuel and DraftKings where now a bunch of these trades can happen here as
01:22:42
well. So I think what Shane is leading the charge on is democratizing this and
01:22:47
financializing all this infrastructure to run extremely liquidly via tokens effectively on chains. And I think that
01:22:55
that is a huge deal broadly speaking. Yeah, I'm I'm loving this for the Oscars
01:23:01
and I was just thinking wow if you're a movie uh studio and you're releasing a film and you if these markets become big
01:23:08
enough you could hedge your bet on your own film. I mean, this could have
01:23:14
profound impacts on every industry. Yeah, Brad, how do you think about it as somebody who trades?
01:23:19
I just love the fact we now professionalized the wisdom of the crowds. I mean, we've known for 150 years that crowds are smarter than
01:23:25
experts and all these people hanging out in ivory tow towers controlling the conversation. Now, the those emperors
01:23:32
have no clothes, right? The reality is I think it was this guy Francis Gton who coined the phrase 1907, he got a group
01:23:39
of 800 farmers together. They had to guess the weight of an ox. And then he had five experts. And guess what? The
01:23:45
crowd got a got a lot closer than the experts to the weight of the ox. And here we are 150 years later and you're
01:23:51
going to have, you know, very very big companies, right, that are now taking it
01:23:56
to the next level, creating liquidity. And when people put money on something, the crowd gets even smarter. So, uh,
01:24:02
it's a, you know, kudos to you guys. You really, your partnership with them, you've taken them to a higher level. And, uh, it's awesome to see. great um
01:24:11
great lesson for entrepreneurs. There was a website in trade. I don't know if you guys remember that from like the early 2000s into like the 2010 that was
01:24:19
doing this. They had regulatory issues, but the idea was out there and people just didn't go all in on it, so to
01:24:25
speak. And here we are. Shane has crushed it. Another amazing,
01:24:30
respectful, fascinating, insightful episode of your podcast. Welcome home,
01:24:38
fifth bestie, Brad Gersner. Go check out his other pod, BG2. Great to have Brad back in the mix.
01:24:44
It's great to be chopping it up with you. We have to get Brad and Freedberg on the same pod.
01:24:49
Oh yeah, let's do it. What if people prefer, a science corner or a market corner?
01:24:56
You don't even tell us in the comments. Tell us in the comments. I will allocate my two votes. I can tell
01:25:02
you. Wow. Freeberg taking a stray. He's not
01:25:07
even here. No, you just He's wondering out loud
01:25:12
corner. You I mean, maybe there's an asteroid coming or we could talk about the markets and have great charts. I don't
01:25:18
know. Anything's possible on the world's number one podcast. Your favorite, your
01:25:25
podcasters's favorite podcast, the All-In Pod. We'll see you all very soon. Allin.com. sign up for an email and get
01:25:32
special uh information on what Congratulations on all your success, Jason. Congratulations. How much success are we talking about
01:25:37
here? Congratulations on behalf of the Trump administration. Congratulations. Thank you. Well, I hope on your Trump
01:25:42
driven success. Congratulations. Absolutely. Yes. And uh Trump 2.0. What else can we do for you? Well, yeah. I want to bring that up.
01:25:48
What other stocks? What other stocks can we uh can we for you? Actually, I do have one thing about
01:25:54
laws. That would be a big relatives you'd like to loop into this conversation. What other people would you like? I call balls and strikes here.
01:26:00
It's a very important role here to have you noticed. You know what I've noticed psychologically? Steel is here. The steel man. The people
01:26:06
that constantly say they call balls and strikes are never the ones that call balls and strikes. I got my eyes on your balls, Jamal.
01:26:12
Don't listen to what they say. Just look at what they do. Exactly. Yeah. Welcome to Texas. Come by the ranch anytime.
01:26:18
Welcome to Texas. Exactly. I have the great state of Texas. How's that ranch treating? It's so great. I carry I carry a pistol
01:26:23
on my waist. It's incredible. This place is great. You're welcome. To quote Jack Nicholson and a few good men. Yeah,
01:26:29
you live under the security blanket that we provide and then you question the manner in which we provide it.
01:26:35
Absolutely. That's called checks and balances. Uh to our amazing panel, great
01:26:41
job. And uh to our civil servant, David Saxs, get back to work for the American people. You're doing a great job.
01:26:49
I love you, boys. Best news. Byebye. will let your winners ride.
01:26:55
Rainman David and it said we open source it to the
01:27:01
fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you queen of quinoa.
01:27:07
[Music]
01:27:12
Besties are gone. That is my dog taking notice your driveways.
01:27:20
Oh man, my habitasher will be up. We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy cuz they're all
01:27:26
just useless. It's like this like sexual tension that we just need to release somehow.
01:27:31
Your feet wet your feet your feet. We need to get mering
01:27:38
all [Music]
01:27:46
in.
