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all right everybody welcome back to the Allin podcast the number one podcast in the world episode
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173 it's objectively freedberg the number one podcast I checked I looked online and uh things are cooking over
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here uh so much so that you may have heard we hired a new CEO welcome to the team our new fifth
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bestie John H yeah go clap everybody let's get in there with our golf clop yes all right John welcome to the
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program your first day was April 1st it wasn't a joke literally was your first day how has week one as CEO for all in
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bin it has been wonderful super Dynamic really happy to be a part of the team all right there you have it sax you were
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a huge driver of this you spent so much time interviewing everybody going through the resumés checking the
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references you know and you you really spearheaded this oh wait you did nothing I forgot it's it's spelled j o n John
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wait who is this s is John who is this okay you guys haven't metnet nice to meet you
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likewise let your winners [Music] ride David and in said we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy
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[Music] with so John worked at the Russian Embassy this is just a coincidence couple Russian references but he worked
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as an intern uh for Putin somehow he wound up getting the Dig uh freeberg you actually led the the the
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incredible search here and we had hundreds of people apply why do you think um we wound up with Mr hell here
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yeah we had a lot of folks and we met with a lot of folks but John really stood out
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with I think his experience and his thoughtfulness about what we can do so so much of our work off the show
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obviously has gone into putting on the all-in summit and we want to do more Live Events and John has a very strong
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background in building incredible live experiences and events which we think is going to be a really important extension
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I think we've we realized over the last two Summits how much Community matters for Allin and how much getting people
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together matters and how much the live content mattered and so we want to do more of that and hopefully John can take
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us to the promised land Fant John thanks for thanks for saying yes it's awesome to have you yeah all right and uh as
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John's first first Duty he is going to next week announce the details of the Allin Summit 2024 our third edition
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chairman dictator trth ptia you've been running all in with an iron fist in the group chat your thoughts on John and
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working with him and why we selected him the Iron Fist please go I think that there's a really important Trend that we
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have stumbled into which is that content creators are the modern form of demand generation for whatever else it is that
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you're going to consume and I think it replaces advertising and I think it displaces traditional
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content and so I was really interested in finding somebody that understood how to connect those thoughts and all of the
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different ways in which we can explore what our brand is capable of and I thought he was the best example of
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having done one thing extremely well at scale and curious enough to figure out the other parts so you know I'm really
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excited to work with John yeah and I'll just add to that you know I've been doing events my whole life and when I
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saw John's actual event history in the events you've thrown John really spectacular in the detail and I think
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you're going to the same way freeberg leveled up year two of the conference I'm I'm really excited to see how you
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put your stamp on it and level up year three couple of housekeeping things here uh you know we are by the way sorry can
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I say one thing what you said there is so much room to build real communities and I think people are just so tired and
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bored with everything online so I think offline experiences will be a huge value ad in people's lives
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yeah there's definitely a bridge from online to offline and the the Allin meetups that Ray's been hosting the best
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example example the best example of at scale of online to offline are dating apps and all I can see is that's a
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pretty dissatisfying experience for a lot of people and so outside of dating apps there aren't many really great
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examples where like-minded people can hang out and have fun and you know talk learn
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party it's really interesting you bring this up I just finished John um hates new book uh the anxious generation I
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don't know if you've listened to it but there's a pair of books out right now bad therapy and uh this one about kids
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and the premise of this book shth is screen time as you referred to you know people being
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online not only is it bad for kids and adults it's also blocking to your point real world connection and so we all want
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a little more real world connection and so John welcome to the team additionally I'll just uh two more
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housekeeping items here and then we'll get to the show we're going to have a 1 million subscriber party if you want to
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be part of that 1 million subscriber party you can increase your chances we're not announcing how we're going to
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give the tickets away but you can increase your chances by going to YouTube right now pause the show
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subscribe to the all-in podcast Channel hit the Bell so you get the alert for the best chance at getting one of the
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golden tickets to the 1 million subscriber party and we are at 486,000 when we add 14,000 more we're going to
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do a live Q&A with all the besties so get in on that as well John uh any any parting thoughts here or comments uh
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which bestie has been the most difficult in to work with in the first month which
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one has been the most delightful go it's been a pleasure across the board I think
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you know part of the beauty of the show is that there are so many different personalities and viewpoints and really
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happy to be part of the team excited for what we're going to continue building how diplomatic who's been the worst to
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deal with who's been the terror be honest tell them I'm you know to we'll talk about it in your oneye review all
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right John great job you likely you who's been the most neurotic likely freeberg who's been the most value ad
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likely me and who's been the most the most unresponsive I've been the easiest to deal with the easiest to
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that's why I get two votes say my proxy yeah exactly I mean it's it's just wild what's going on here it really is Game
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of Thrones and you have been put in the center of it John congratulations welcome to the Iron Throne watch your
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back all right dismiss John let us know how we could be helpful salute to you John much guys we got to
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get going here we got a big show for you everybody welcome to the show officially
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David Sachs your Rainman sha chairman dictator sulan of science David freberg I'm the world's greatest moderator
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Welcome to the program a quick correction up top that many of you in the crypto space let us know about
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immediately after the episode dropped we talked about SPF getting 25 years uh and
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that broke right as we started the show and we discussed that the customers of FTX were going to get made whole there's
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been a lot of speculation about them being made whole however there was an important
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note FTX depositors are getting paid back in US Dollars not the crypto that dollar amount we've learned is based on
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the price of their tokens at the bankruptcy date the bankruptcy date was November 11th in 2022 super
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important because the report that started the run on FTX was published in November 2nd there's a couple of days in
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between those two dates and a bunch of crypto plummeted salana dropped uh 50% between November 5th and November 11th
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that's just one example but since then salana has been up 11x and bitcoin's up 4X ethereum doubled so if you one of
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these depositors you miss that runup and so FDX customers were rightfully Furious
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I'll pause there before I get into more details any any thoughts on this sex yeah I mean just to hit the nail on the
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head here if you had left your salana at FTX you're going to get $16 per token back and that apparently was the price
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at the time that they went under so according to the the judicial proced seedings you've been quote unquote made
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whole but the truth is that Salo at this moment is trading at $188 so you have not been made whole and this is why the
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crypto Community is furious and so that that basically is the correction now I thought it was interesting that the
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judge played into this notion and we talked about that quote from the judge last week where he said that if you go
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to Vegas abcon with your customers money gamble it and then pay them off with the
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winnings then you still committed a crime he seemed to be conceding this idea that the investors or or the
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depositors at FTX have been made whole clearly they have not been but his quote kind of Lent Credence to that and the
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reason the judge was talking about it is because SP spf's lawyers were clearly making this argument that his sentence
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should be commuted or reduced because the depositors had been made whole and I think what you saw in the media coverage
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is that the reporters were buying into this idea of depositors being whole I mean you guys got this from somewhere
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right I mean this is what the media coverage so the media the media was doing what it's been doing throughout
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the FTX case which is carrying water for S SPF and I believe that this narrative
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that they're trying to concoct which we now know is completely false is designed
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to serve a purpose and I think that purpose is to get SP SPF either pardoned or have his sentence commuted because Mr
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bankman and Miss freed are huge Democrat atic party bundlers and I think the goal
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here is to create the idea in the Public's mind that people weren't really hurt by this this was just sort of
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youthful indiscretion or hij Jinks and you know was a bunch of H Jinks right Shenanigans but Shenanigans were no one
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was really hurt and if they can create that impression in the Public's mind they can now set up getting one of their
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Democratic party connections to help push for a commutation of the sence I think there's a narrative going on I
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think there's an agenda behind the narrative and it's what I'm saying here yeah this pardon power is really
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powerful choth any any thoughts here on the bankruptcy judge making that call to
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sell the chairs because obviously if crypto had tanked since that time it would look like he saved the money by
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selling them clearing the positions and giving them cash what what is the right thing for the bankruptcy judge to do
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here keep the equities I the tokens or to sell it and freeze it in time it seems like a very different hold on J
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we got to correct that for just in a certain way so the trustee has been selling the tokens post runup the point
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is that he's selling tokens at current prices call it 188 and then using that to pay off depositors at $16 so the only
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reason the depositors have been quote unquote made whole is because they're getting the benefit of this runup but
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they're not paying them back at the price of their salana today they're paying them at this price that got fixed
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at the time of the bankruptcy so the truth is this is why no one's getting made whole yeah this is the you know the
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really hard thing to track here because we couldn't find when they were selling it or how much they've been selling this
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seems to be being done in the shadows or in the background and so if anybody out
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there as we crowdsource what's going on here wants to keep us up to date let us know but yeah these tokens some number
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of them got sold at a low price some of them are getting sold I guess as time goes on shath your just thoughts on how
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to do this properly what's the proper hygiene here I mean it's we're noty experts that's a great question I don't
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know the differences between chapter 7 and chapter 11 bankruptcy law but I don't know what was filed here was it
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chapter 7 or chapter 11 I don't I don't know but it seems that this was the only
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thing that they could do which was to liquidate into a common you know unit of measure
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because at the end of the day their Auditors had to measure in a standard unit and that was probably the US dollar
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and so then they were trying to work backwards from that shareholder Equity number to get them back to that number
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so yeah it was kind of logical that that this is the only thing they could do and
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I guess they benefited from the fact that there was a runup but it's really unfortunate for folks so I don't know
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maybe in other countries had this been a differently constituted company organized in a different Place Banky law
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could have allowed the Liquidator to actually just distribute the assets on a Prat
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basis this was a chapter hold I got the update here this is a chapter 11 and in September the
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judge allowed FTX to start liquidating up to 100 million a week Delaware right this is a chapter 11 Delaware filing
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yeah chapter 11 in Delaware correct and this could increase to 20000 million a week so it seems like they did they did
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start the liquidation later so they might have caught some of the runup so if they did catch the run up then you
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could be doubly upset right no my point my point is in different in different situations one could imagine where the
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shareholders could have been allowed to vote do you want money or do you want in
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kind and if in kind maybe you get a Prat distribution of all the assets which would have included a whole bunch of
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these coins but then it probably would have included a bunch of other assets not just salana and
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Bitcoin and eth that ripped so I think the point is that if they had distributed kind meaning tokens that
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people would have seen oh wait I only got back on10th the number of tokens that I put in that's the point right
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yeah you put in a 100 salana tokens you only get back call it roughly 10 because
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the the price of those tokens was fixed at 16 and they can now sell at somewhere
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between 100 and 200 they're able to quote make you whole at the $16 price but that's not being made whole what are
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they doing with the extra money sacks because are they using that to make other people in this whole Trader hole
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as well so maybe they're thinking holistically they're taking the profits of those Salon holders let's say or
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Bitcoin holders wi Forex and is that going to trickle down to the equity holders who knows freeberg you have
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thoughts here yeah I think the plan is that that excess Capital beyond what is quote owed to the account holders goes
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to the equity holders because it's considered excess of the liabilities therefore it goes to the shareholders I
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I'll also say in a traditional like brokerage you create an account and when you set up an account your account has a
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currency denomination it's a dollar based account or a Euro based account and then you your account holds a bunch
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of assets and so at any given time the value of your account is represented to you in that local currency the challenge
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with crypto exchanges is that there's often this representation of a wallet which is meant to hold assets that don't
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necessarily have the intention of being translated into a locally denominated currency and so I think that's what
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makes this system different in the case of a US exchange bankruptcy and this happens in commodity trading accounts or
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commodity exchanges often there's a freezing of the assets and then a liquidation of the assets where the
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freezing of the assets sets the the price or the value at the moment of what you're supposed to hold in that account
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in your currency of your account right and so the the bankruptcy judge and the trustee are treating this like a
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liquidation process using a local currency that was set at the time whereas many folks don't consider that
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the intention of the account that the account was meant to hold assets that it's really a portfolio of assets that
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shouldn't be liquidated to try and generate local currency because that's kind of the whole point of many of these
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crypto currencies themselves it was a custodial account basically right a custodial account of assets versus a
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trading account of which is meant to ultimately be converted back into a local currency which is typical and I
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think that's what makes this such a challenging process yeah just liquidate everything
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pool of money arrives distribute the money but the way bankruptcy works is that there's a pecking order that essentially
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you you have all the assets of the company the job of the trustee is to liquidate them they have a fiduciary
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duty to get the highest price they can for those assets we have no reason to believe that they haven't they seem to
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have waited a decent enough amount of time to get to benefit from this crypto recovery and then what happens is again
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there's like a pecking order for the distribution of the proceeds and you're going to have debt holders they're going
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to be senior to the equity holders the depositors are going to be high up there as well government agencies that are
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owed fines are going to be high up there there's going to be a very specific pecking order in which the equity
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holders are last you want to go into conspiracy corner and put our chin foil hats on you mentioned the IRS the cftc
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right these government agencies are owned like over $20 billion if all this crypto profits at they're higher in the
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stack they would be going directly to the government and the government is handing the process here so it doesn't
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look right but I don't I don't think I don't think it's that's driving it I think that I think bankruptcy rules are
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very specific and they're completely designed around again assessing what the value of each
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claimant is at the time of bankruptcy and then creating a pecking order for distribution so I I don't think there's
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any Foul Play here I think that this is just the way that the cookie crumbles but I think that it's simply wrong or
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misleading to say that the depositors were made whole and I think the reason we thought that is because of these
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statements that were promulgated through the media including the judge to give people that impression and I think it
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really just underscores that the media always has an agenda and you got to be so careful about em bibing their
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narratives because without knowing exactly what their agenda is you can invive their bias yeah my understanding
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of bankruptcy is like they they they can get a little bit creative and the bankruptcy judges can be a little
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creative and trying to holistically think about what's the best thing for the business and all the stakeholder
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shareholders but anyway we'll keep monitoring it and like um we've said before anytime we make a mistake we're
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going to talk about it right up front anytime there's an Omission or breaking news happens we're going to fill you in
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and uh that leads us to our second topic some more news broke about truth social
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we had a nice spicy discussion about it last week since that time shares of tmtg or dollar sign djt have dropped
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30% and uh the numbers for their revenue also confirmed and came out it's pretty
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ugly 4 million in Revenue 58 million in losses floats only 30 million shares but
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there are some follow-up stories here we'll get into Trump is suing the two co-founders to reduce their combined 8.6
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state to Z his argument as co-founders set the company up improperly and mishandled the launch of Tru social so
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they should forfeit their stock these are both co-founders previously on The Apprentice Trump owns 60% and he stands
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for reing ear out of 36 million additional shares in the coming week uh worth almost two billion so huge
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windfall for president Trump coming in addition to that SS you're going to love this Russia Russia Russia the guardian
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is reporting tmtg raised $8 million in emergency funding that might have possibly come from a Russian linked
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entity the spa uh while it was on hold was running out of cash Russia link en uh you read this all about this in the
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guardian they tried to raise some money they wound up raising 8 million across two convertable notes from a bank called
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paxum located in the Caribbean owned by a Russian who is reportedly the nephew of Alexander schroff who used to work in
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Putin's executive office until 2017 is this a joke no I I I I mean I I wish it was a joke because I know I'm going to
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get barbecued for like by the by the Trump supporters in the comments but it is crazy that the Russians are what is
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the Russians name Alexander schof isn't that the name of a vodka it kind of ism I noov shirov maybe shov Trump doesn't
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even drink I mean maybe yeah I don't know if Putin drinks or not anyway Trump doesn't drink Putin doesn't drink either
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oh Trump doesn't drink that's true yeah if the oh really is that true yeah so anyway important caveats to all this
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stuff uh interesting story though there's no indication that Trump or Trump media had any idea about the
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nature of these loans Cu uh they were opaque and uh Trump media says it's propaganda and false narrative your
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thoughts on the Trump sa sacks and and Russia I know it's your favorite topic well we're it's going to be a really
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long seven months if we're going to bring up every one of these evidence-free stories of some sort of
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Russia connection to Trump I mean this article doesn't even make sense like you said here's the giveaway in the middle
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of the article they say the guardian does quote there is no indication that Trump or Trump media had any idea about
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the nature of the loans beyond that they were opaque nor has the company or its Executives been accused of wrongdoing so
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then what are we talking about here does there some guy with a Russian sounding last name I mean literally that's the
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story it doesn't even make sense I don't understand how you can get alone and not
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know who your counterparty is so this whole thing just seems like it's part of the milu of let's create any connections
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we can between Trump and Russia and the giveaway on this was actually a New York
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Times story that just came out in the past week it was called Russia amps up online campaign against Ukraine before
00:22:40
us elections now the interesting thing about this story is that it was reporting
00:22:47
allegations by Clint Watts who has apparently been hired by Microsoft to run something called the threat analysis
00:22:57
Center and job basically is to find Russian interference in the election now here's what I found interesting about
00:23:04
this is that Clint Watts that that name rang a bell for me and it's because Clint Watts was involved in the Twitter
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files so back in January of last year Matt taibe broke this story in the Twitter
00:23:22
files that Clint Watts was running the Hamilton 68 dashboard he was basically behind that project he's a former FBI
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agent what was Hamilton 68 Hamilton 68 claimed that it was tracking 500 Russian accounts on social media who were
00:23:39
engaged in manipulation of online discourse well as it turns out Executives inside of Twitter knew who
00:23:47
these accounts were and they were just American accounts some Canadian accounts and in the words of Twitter Executives
00:23:53
the whole Hamilton 68 dashboard was that was their word and nevertheless this Hamilton 68
00:24:01
project that Clint Watts ran put out story after Story for years about how the Russians were meddling in American
00:24:09
political debates and these stories the Hamilton 68 claims became the basis for thousands literally thousands of
00:24:17
mainstream media stories claiming that Russia was interfering in American politics it all turned out to be a total
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hoax a total fraud now the amazing thing to me is you would think after an expose
00:24:29
like this that it would at least be mentioned in the New York Times that the person they're quoting as saying that
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the Russians are meddling in our elections has a previous history of setting up Russia hoaxes and they don't
00:24:45
even mention that despite the taiii story moreover it's amazing to me that this Watts guy not only landed on his
00:24:53
feet he got a cushy job at Microsoft running their threats analysis Center said could put out more of this threat
00:25:00
analysis on how the Russians were meddling I can't imagine a less qualified person to be describing Russia
00:25:06
threats than somebody who was caught red-handed manufacturing bogus threats for years free your so in any event
00:25:13
Jason I would just say that you know going back to the S SPF story The takeaway there is be careful what you're
00:25:20
em bibing from the mainstream media because there's always an agenda and until this story about Tru social from
00:25:27
the guardian has a little bit more detail to it that makes sense to me I'm just going to put it in the category of
00:25:33
more the same yeah and you know that as I've said on this program before Russia's explicit strategies just put
00:25:38
their fingerprints on everything and cause chaos like they did with the internet research agency and all the
00:25:44
trolling they were doing the last couple of Elections freeberg your thoughts on this you concerned about the
00:25:48
interference in the election I'm not GNA thoughts on this yeah this is this is nothing I feel like I should be
00:25:56
thoughtful about okay sounds good all right then wrapping up I had mentioned the last episode about the insider
00:26:02
trading charges in the company that was the spa before they purchased truth social and the three two
00:26:12
of the three men have been charged with insider trading just pleaded guilty so Michael and Gerald
00:26:18
schatman made 23 million illicit profits trading shares of DW AC before the merger was announced that each plad
00:26:24
guilty to one count of Securities fraud face 3 to five years neither was involved with truth this is the spack
00:26:32
that came before truth and there it is folks so there's your update what's the relevance of this to being a top issue
00:26:38
on the all-in Pod I just think this is going to be a really long seven I think it's going be a really long seven months
00:26:43
for us till the election if we're going to bring up every mainstream media story
00:26:47
that seeks to create a connection between this MRE media this is an SEC filing yeah this one has nothing to do
00:26:53
with Russia this is the insider trading one but you just said it has no connection to True social so why we even
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talking no no it's these are the people who traded the stock before truth social
00:27:04
merged with it this is the spack that truth social and they traded when they found out that Trump was going to be the
00:27:09
spec that was merged with so I'm just following closing the loop on that breaking news Google is reportedly
00:27:14
considering making an offer to hire acquire HubSpot creating a $34 billion market cap this just came out reported
00:27:20
by Reuters who cited Anonymous sources shares up 7% on the news if you don't know HubSpot it's awesome tool we use it
00:27:27
uh CRM that blend Marketing sales customer service all that kind of good stuff and so here's their quarterly
00:27:33
Revenue since IPO they've been public for 10 years as you pointed out in the group chat Friedberg and this has been
00:27:39
slow and steady Revenue power of SAS I guess and a great product I'm not a shareholder here's the quarterly Revenue
00:27:46
growth on a year-over-year basis stock chart yada yada chath I guess this is something we've been
00:27:52
talking about here which is m&a and m&a being pushed into the coal Plunge and being frozen and now we see
00:28:00
something like this what what do you take from this if it's in fact a true report I mean I think it's a bit of an
00:28:04
odd acquisition and the reason is that it's become pretty clear for all of big Tech that any acquisition that they do
00:28:12
is going to be highly scrutinized and so just from an EV expected value perspective if you're going to try to
00:28:20
acquire something and spend the next year beating your head against Regulators why not do it for something
00:28:26
that's really valuable and I would not characterize HubSpot as strategically valuable for Google I think it's an
00:28:33
important ecosystem player and it's probably better off as an independent company so if I were Google I'd be
00:28:38
trying to buy something much more useful like perplexity or something H freeberg
00:28:44
your thoughts on this first of all it's super impressive hubspot's been public they went public at about a billion
00:28:49
dollar market cap 10 years ago and today they're trading at 34 billion so organic develop this business and they
00:28:56
provide marketing automation software so basically things like CRM tools email marketing tools so when you use
00:29:03
advertising tools and you generate leads those leads come in what do you do with
00:29:06
them so let's say you're running a website that sells bicycles people want information on bicycles what do you do
00:29:13
with those people after they get information on your website and how do you track them down and how do you sell
00:29:17
them a bicycle if you're a big enterprise software company and you start to get companies reaching out to
00:29:23
you through your website how do you then convert them so you use CRM tools customer relationship management tools
00:29:29
Salesforce is a obviously a behemoth in the space but HubSpot has this integrated marketing Automation and CRM
00:29:37
platform for taking leads and then converting those leads and selling products to them so the sales team and
00:29:44
the marketing team uses HubSpot software to operate and and do their work and do
00:29:49
it better when I worked at Google in 2005 the main thing I worked on is how do we do a better job taking our
00:29:59
advertisers and giving them more tools that they can then convert the leads that they're getting into
00:30:06
customers and so one of the first things I worked on in 2004 and then we closed the deal in 2005 was acquiring urchin
00:30:13
which became Google analytics so that companies could better track how folks were converting on their website after
00:30:19
they spend marketing dollars on Google how do you see where those people go on your website and what they're actually
00:30:24
doing on the website and ultimately make your website better so you can sell a more product some more software and one
00:30:29
of the the things I worked on was CRM so I had this conversation with the executive team with Larry and Sergey and
00:30:35
others at that time and we talked about should we buy a CRM company and we actually had a conversation they did
00:30:41
with Mark Ben off at the time and we talked about is there a way to buy Salesforce and Salesforce went public
00:30:47
shortly before Google and it was more richly valued than I think the appetite was at the time to make this
00:30:55
leap to buying a CRM company we spent quite a bit of time meeting with and I personally spent time meeting with
00:31:01
netsuite which ultimately got rolled in I think it was Larry Ellison was the primary owner of netsuite we looked at a
00:31:07
few other CRM companies and this was always meant to be the next solution that you plug into the advertising
00:31:13
platform at Google you get all these leads from advertising and how do you convert those leads and make them
00:31:19
customers and many of the other things we looked at were things like checkout software and software that would let you
00:31:25
run a website to sell your products to customers on the the website and so on which became Shopify in a way which
00:31:30
became Shopify and and we had looked very deeply at doing this at Google is actually building a product called
00:31:36
Google Checkout it wasn't very successful but it was to do exactly this which is to build a basically a Shopify
00:31:42
type competitor and so this has always been the natural fit for Google's business Google made a quarter trillion
00:31:48
dollars last year in advertising revenue and then they didn't make much revenue after the advertising generated leads
00:31:56
because Google doesn't have a great commer business and they don't have any of these other Enterprise tools so this
00:32:00
is a very natural fit into Google's advertising business and taking all of the leads from advertising and better
00:32:07
converting them and giving your sales team the tools they need to convert those leads into customers so it makes
00:32:14
great strategic sense it's been a concept that's been around for 20 years at Google certainly they're going to
00:32:18
face regulatory scrutiny but it doesn't have the same sort of overlap with the ad Network businesses because they're
00:32:25
not very heavily in the ad Network business HubSpot but it's a really good kind of enterprise software PL plugin
00:32:31
some would say Acquisitions are one of three types they are defensive they are offensive or they are
00:32:37
about reinforcing the status quo if you had to bucket HubSpot into one of those three things is this an offensive mmaa
00:32:44
is it a defensive m&a or is this status quo I think it gives advertisers more tools that can integrate with AdWords
00:32:55
which is how advertisers spend ad dollars is through AdWords platform and so as a result it locks the advertisers
00:33:02
onto Google's ad platform keeps them more engage and so I think that the benefit to jamas point is that they're
00:33:10
going to both protect ad Revenue at Google by locking in people on the on the CRM side and the marginal impact
00:33:18
they'll get from selling CRM services not that impactful to the business I mean if you could spend let's say with a
00:33:24
premium $50 billion on HubSpot or five billion dollar on perplexity today which one would you buy I think
00:33:33
you got to buy HubSpot you're protecting to your point you're protecting a quarter trillion dollar ad business
00:33:38
HubSpot makes two billion in Revenue so it's 1% of the size of Google's ad business and it helps you lock in some
00:33:46
percentage of that 250 billion so that's an important strategic acquisition I think for Google so you'd rather buy
00:33:52
something in marketing automation versus AI I think they should spend the money in AI but I think you have to buy
00:33:58
something to it's a good question to further the revenue mode yeah what does Google accomplish here that they
00:34:04
couldn't do with an integration a partnership you mean well I mean they could just build on hubs
00:34:11
spots platform just create a connector between Google ads and I think that exists already exactly so what's the
00:34:18
point understand I think what freeberg is saying in nicer language is they're going to make it a roach motel lock in
00:34:25
you get in and you can't get out I mean it gives you the full life cycle of the advertiser sack so I mean you understand
00:34:30
the funnel right you get the actual profile of the customer yeah the problem with the roach motal m&a strategy is
00:34:36
that people sniff that out pretty quickly and then they start to carve out these very discreet parts of the product
00:34:42
that they want you to divest in order to get the whole thing done that's the thing that
00:34:47
surprisingly I think The Regulators have gotten smart about and I suspect it's not that The Regulators themselves know
00:34:53
these discret ideas but that the answers are fed to them by competitors who want
00:34:57
to slow these processes down and make these things convoluted and complicated oh they snitch they send the snitch in I
00:35:05
I think it's very smart for a competitor to actually call a regulator and give them a road map of how to make the deal
00:35:12
happen but in a very convoluted complicated way you remember I suspect that's what happened in Microsoft
00:35:18
Activision Microsoft brilliantly fought it off right and so they were able to get the whole thing done completely on
00:35:23
their terms but in many other cases you get these discret things where it's like
00:35:27
okay invest this sell that keep this and it's like why why are we doing this but I just think the roach motel
00:35:34
strategy is harder to get done these days because folks will know how to make it super convoluted I will tell you what
00:35:41
what when when a big company like this makes a big acquisition offer like this as much as I know Google's business I
00:35:47
think it's a generalization that can be drawn here it's usually a negative signal
00:35:53
about organic growth meaning if I'm a Google shareholder I should look at this and I should say
00:36:00
why do you need to make this acquisition why is there an indication in this bid that there is some advertising Revenue
00:36:07
leakage going on and then I should go spend time trying to understand that I think there's a really important
00:36:14
question there yeah but this is why I'm asking you like obviously they're not going to do this because things are
00:36:18
going perfectly in that space and so if you're losing share you're not going to be losing it to Bing you're losing it to
00:36:24
some form of AI which is why again it's a bit of a heads scratcher spend a lot less money and just buy everything in
00:36:29
the space or spend 50 billion and buy everything possible in the space to give you just a little context here this is
00:36:36
going to be by far their largest acquisition if it's true if it gets closed this is all speculation right now
00:36:41
looking back Motorola Mobility uh was bought for 12.5 billion there were patents there was the hardware business
00:36:46
which they spun out you can go look up the deal details there but there's a long taale of uh companies they've
00:36:52
bought Nest Labs Fitbit and YouTube uh 3 billion 2 billion 1. 6 billion if you remember uh they bought a mandiant I've
00:37:00
never even heard of the cyber security company 5.4 billion they bought nest for 3 billion double click 3 billion that
00:37:05
was a long time ago so he probably triple that value in today's dollars by the way remember Fitbit Fitbit took uh
00:37:11
18 or 24 months to close took a while yeah deep deeply scrutinized if you think a wearable on your wrist is going
00:37:18
to get scrutinized when bought by Google imagine what happens when a 50 billion dollar marketing automation company gets
00:37:23
bought by Google yeah it's really interesting look I I don't think this acquisition makes any sense I'm kind of
00:37:29
in Chamas camp this is this would be a very odd acquisition I'm not even sure the story is true there's been no
00:37:34
confirmation of an actual bid made this was basically an anonymous source saying
00:37:38
that Google had hired investment bankers to you know maybe kick the tires well typically these Bankers float these
00:37:44
trial balloons like this because they want to pump the deal but yeah imagine what the fees would be on $50 billion
00:37:52
acquisition sh some other buyers loose yeah when they have these auctions well look it's going to be very hard for any
00:37:59
big tech company to do a $50 billion acquisition of anything just that given that leanon and the FTC are opposed to
00:38:04
bigness in and of itself but I think from a strategic point of view I agree this this deal would be odd I don't
00:38:11
really see the connection to the Google ads business HubSpot is used by companies to
00:38:16
manage their pipelines it's a competitive Salesforce I see it all the time I see startups using it all the
00:38:22
time as the alternative to Salesforce because it's sort of easier to use more user friendly and the main thing it does
00:38:29
is you have your pipeline in there you bring in the leads at the top of the funnel and then you work them down to
00:38:35
close deals where do those leads come from sex I understand that they can come from Google AdWords but most of them
00:38:41
come from from ads spend that's the connection and it's always been this idea that those two should be integrated
00:38:48
okay but but the the point is that if you think about your top of funnel if you're one of the customers of HubSpot
00:38:55
using this Google AdWords is just one of a number of channels that's right so you
00:39:00
could be getting your leads through inbound you could be getting your leads through events you could be getting your
00:39:07
leads through I mean there's so many different sources so so doesn't it doesn't make sense to me that
00:39:14
somehow Google would need to acquire a company to manage not their advertisers but the people their advertisers are
00:39:22
trying to reach as one of a dozen different potential marketing channels it just doesn't really make sense I mean
00:39:28
the the Acquisitions where Google's been really successful have been broad horizontal platform plays like Android
00:39:35
this is as vertical as it gets this is CRM software this is basically Google getting into a vertical app for sales
00:39:43
and marketing teams yeah I if you think if you think about the business that this is most like it would be G suite
00:39:51
and because it's an Enterprise play and that's the most neglected part of Google's business I think you're both a
00:39:57
key piece to this I think this is about the data you look at these These are the
00:40:01
leads and the great contacts in the database of the customer which Google doesn't have access to and they can
00:40:07
close the loop and they can make targeting of ads and get people deeper and they can fight for a larger
00:40:13
percentage so to your points act yes you've got 20 different inbound feeds coming in for leads if Google knows the
00:40:20
leads that are already in there they can then retarget them across their entire ad Network which is the largest in the
00:40:25
world that's the value if I know your 10,000 best customers and then I know when they're on Google searching and I
00:40:32
know that when they're in a Chrome browser I know when they're on an Android phone if they happen to use that
00:40:36
man I can just start getting more of your ad dollars into it that's what's actually happening here it's they don't
00:40:41
want a SAS business they want the data they want to retarget folks and then they want to make close more sales and
00:40:47
be more efficient than Tik Tok and Facebook and meta it's about you think they'd be allowed to use their customers
00:40:53
data to somehow Target their ad product absolutely 100% if you if I'm opting into it and I say hey you have 10,000
00:41:00
people in your database you want to go find them we have you have 8,000 of them connected that came in through Google
00:41:04
search what about the other 12,000 you want to try to find them in the Google ad Network we can put that together for
00:41:09
you that's actually if somebody's going to snitch on this deal it's about the data I'll tell you back in just
00:41:15
improving conversion rates drives more ad revenue and the key measurement we had
00:41:22
the year after we bought urchin and launched Google analytics was we looked at how much an advertisers spent on
00:41:28
Google's AdWords Network before and after they installed Google analytics and that year it was a ton of money at
00:41:35
the time we saw an incremental roughly $500 million in Revenue in ad spend with folks who installed Google analytics
00:41:45
from before versus after because they then started to change their websites and tweak their sales flow or their
00:41:50
marketing flow on their website to better convert customers so they could spend more on the network because higher
00:41:56
conversion rates means you can spend a higher CPM on Advertising so the the deeper you go from an integration
00:42:03
perspective in closing sales the better you actually can get and the more money you can spend on marketing on the front
00:42:08
end and so that benefits the growth in the network and to build on your point freeberg this is why Amazon and Uber and
00:42:15
instacart have become such mayor major players in advertising they have the data on sales
00:42:21
information and drop off and they sell conversions at the point sacks of the shopping cart about to be clicked on and
00:42:30
Amazon's been taking some of that and and instacart been intercepting some of those ads yeah I'll speculate on this
00:42:35
for a second I think that if I'm sitting inside of Google I see the capability of
00:42:40
our AI tools our generative AI Tools in being able to improve marketing and sales um processes and I'm saying how do
00:42:48
we leverage that well guess what we don't actually have access to our advertisers sales and marketing
00:42:53
automation workflow because we don't have a CRM tool so then the natural strategic thing is how do we get a CRM
00:43:00
tool okay well we can't buy Salesforce well we could buy HubSpot that makes sense number two so then we could we
00:43:06
could apply our generative AI capabilities to improve conversion efficiency at HubSpot and probably grow
00:43:11
Revenue there as well so it could be a fairly quickly creative deal and there's the benefit to the ad Network I think
00:43:17
the roach motel idea is probably the best strategy here yeah you're right I just think I would if I were them with
00:43:22
$50 billion there're like 30 billion by the way 35 premium they got to pay 50% more 25%
00:43:29
more it's already floated up so you got to imagine it's probably a $40 billion deal yeah okay 40 okay so they saved 10
00:43:36
billion I think the synergies here are negligible if it took Google almost two years to get a an accelerometer on a RIS
00:43:43
approv from antitrust this is going to take three years saxs yeah so why bother so like do something much more
00:43:49
disruptive I have an answer to that but I want to hear Sax's first good well I just looked up how many customers
00:43:53
HubSpot has HubSpot has 205,000 C customers as of the end of 2023 now you look up Google AdWords it has 1.2
00:44:02
million businesses okay and I'm sure that's not 100% overlapping every one of them should be using hutspot that's
00:44:08
hugely creative I agree yeah I don't think that Google has the leverage to drive all of its adword customers into
00:44:16
using a do need all of them if if it gets 5% of them it makes this deal make sense interesting that part is kind of
00:44:22
interesting if they can actually drive their ad customers what they did with with double click double click was
00:44:28
actually advertising no but they had other other places that they could take their AdWords advertisers to spend that
00:44:33
the double click Network had access to anyway I I hear you yeah and there was another set of advertising AO management
00:44:39
tools that double click had that that's an Enterprise software tool that they were able to sell into their advertisers
00:44:43
that they didn't have themselves CH let me ask you a Market's question here if we wind up with a republican
00:44:50
conservative GOP presidency and administration for the next four years which seems like a a
00:44:57
possibility here strong possibility what does that do for m&a markets do you think they might be opening up here and
00:45:02
the reason Google's even considering this is because they anticipate this deal might fall into a new
00:45:09
Administration that is going to fire Lina con possibly probably I actually think that I think
00:45:15
the Democrats and the Republicans are really well aligned here they don't like deals and I don't think you're going to
00:45:21
see a big sea change they hate big tech for different reasons but they equally want to them down if you look at the
00:45:29
non-big tech m&a deals they're going to get slowed down for different reasons so for example
00:45:34
like the big us steel merger with nipon steel that was announced Biden has one set of issues but I suspect you know if
00:45:41
Donald Trump were to get elected his issues will be more about further hollowing out Middle America and so that
00:45:48
deal will probably get stopped for different reasons but so I think that they're both
00:45:54
actually roughly aligned and not all a lot of this big m&a to happen but for different reasons for different reasons
00:46:01
but the outcome is the same so this is why I I would just kind of think like if you're going to do a deal you got to do
00:46:07
something that's like small enough where it'll pass muster you know it to be really valuable and The Regulators will
00:46:15
be like ah whatever just let it happen SX what do you think do you think a trump Administration would become more
00:46:20
frisky allow more m&a they seem to be actually cozing up to Tech in a major way well I agree with Jamal that there's
00:46:27
a lot of anger on the Republican side towards Big Tech because of censorship and bias and Google is as guilty of that
00:46:32
as any of these big tech companies so I don't expect Republican Administration to have
00:46:38
Google on its good graces that being said I do think Republicans have a more traditional definition of antitrust than
00:46:45
Lena Khan does and I think that a republican anti-rust enforcer would probably be guided by market share
00:46:55
considerations first and for foremost and so in this case since Google does not have a CRM play then based on a
00:47:03
traditional definition of antitrust they would be able to make this acquisition whereas I think again Lena Khan is just
00:47:09
opposed to bigness and doesn't want big tech companies getting any bigger so there's no guarantee that Republicans
00:47:14
would allow it I would say that if you got the right FDC commissioner or right doj I'd say there's a possibility of it
00:47:23
being more likely to go through to remind everybody lenina Khan's interpretation of antitrust is future
00:47:30
competition trying to protect future competition the traditional one is consumer based hey are consumers
00:47:35
benefiting or not and so that's actually that's one of the top three guests I want market share is really the
00:47:42
traditional test yeah market share and then the impact that has on consumer choice and price yeah can I just go back
00:47:47
on to the Synergy point I just want to like yes please I just want to brainstorm about this for a second let's
00:47:52
say you're one of Google's 1.2 million businesses that are using AdWords there's a high chance you're also using
00:47:58
Facebook there's a high chance you're also doing other kinds of advertising you might be doing physical world
00:48:04
advertising you might be doing events there might be a dozen different channels through which you get leads now
00:48:10
all of a sudden Google sends you an email saying hey we acquired HubSpot you know why don't you click here to use us
00:48:17
for CRM is that really going to drive a change in behavior from that small business beyond what they would already
00:48:25
do today it doesn't seem that syner just stick to me some percent of them not all
00:48:29
maybe 5% again like 5% is 50,000 that's Anem campaign I mean I just don't see the
00:48:36
leverage basically yeah I don't know if I agree but I mean that's why we're here if Google did a deep product
00:48:44
integration where the leads that you acquired through Google AdWords magically appeared in HubSpot and that's where you
00:48:51
went to go work them then yes maybe maybe there' be Synergy just looking at this on the numbers since we like to do
00:48:59
back of the envelope here $250 billion add Revenue 1.2 million in advertisers it's almost exactly like $2,000 per
00:49:05
Advertiser obviously there's some big ones obviously there a long tail man if you can get some number of those to
00:49:11
spend 10 20 30% more it could be quite a creative to the bottom line it would pay
00:49:15
for the acquisition over a short period of time and we'll see it's interesting discussion for sure all right if you
00:49:21
missed it John Stewart did a segment on AI on The Daily Show he came back he's doing I think Mondays every every week
00:49:27
and it went viral and it was about how AI is going to change our jobs faster than any previous labor Revolution so it
00:49:35
seems like the public is starting to get an idea uh about AI wiping out large swats of jobs and it's starting to hit
00:49:43
the mainstream CEOs like Brian chesky from Airbnb and Aaron Levy from box I had them on this weekend startups Le in
00:49:50
the last year they said they anticipate 30 to 50% productivity gains for a lot of the jobs in their companies developer
00:49:56
customer support all that stuff and we covered claer AI customer support agent doing the job of 700 full-time employees
00:50:03
and driving a $40 million increase in profits this year yada yada y we've we've talked about this over and over
00:50:08
again but it seems to be tipping over into public Consciousness we chth have talked about whether humans will find
00:50:15
more work to do or if this is going to truly displace people I think we all kind of feel like at least to the best
00:50:21
of my memory we all feel like new jobs will be created but it is entering the Public's Consciousness what imp is that
00:50:27
going to have if the public starts thinking AI is going to take their job chath I mean I think that social media
00:50:33
will make this perception more widespread than it's been at other moments of Revolution and Innovation but
00:50:41
we've gone through this before I'd like to summarize my thoughts in three charts
00:50:45
okay and I call this this time it's not different so chart number one for those watching on
00:50:52
YouTube is a look at the components of US GDP this is from the Bureau of economic
00:50:58
analysis now this goes from 1929 up to 2011 so it doesn't go all the way back to the 1800s and we're missing the last
00:51:05
decade but the point is the following if you can see the chart if you can't see it I'll describe it to you which is that
00:51:12
GDP the components of GDP are surprisingly resilient and roughly the same over long stretches of time which
00:51:19
is that even though GDP goes up consumer consumption is always around 70% net exports are
00:51:27
a few per plus or minus gross domestic investment is around the 20% level and then government consumption is around
00:51:35
the 20% level and that's what adds up to GDP so that's an important thing to note
00:51:42
why because in the absence of something very acute like World War II these things don't change over long periods of
00:51:48
time okay so if that is true what happens when you have any kind of a revolution so let's look at the
00:51:55
Industrial Revolution right so they shift from farms to factories and what you saw was exactly what people should
00:52:02
be worried about with respect to AI which is in specific job classes things just fall to zero so unemployment
00:52:09
basically went to zero and the income associated with those jobs also went to zero so this is what people are worried
00:52:15
about but if you remember the last chart the point is somehow we found a way to find growth and this is what's
00:52:25
demonstrated on this final chart which is when you look at us productivity and worker compensation this is going from
00:52:30
World War II to today you find that every time we find a new way of innovating compensation tends to track
00:52:38
it so if you take these three things together number one which is the components of GDP rarely change number
00:52:45
two is that yes there are certain categories of jobs that always get disrupted away but the third is the most
00:52:51
important which is that as productivity goes up which is what AI should give us just as we've seen in the past
00:52:58
compensation also goes up which means new job classes will be created so I think the macro picture if you look back
00:53:05
hundreds of years is that this is like many other moments in time it feels more personal right now because we're all
00:53:11
living it right none few of us lived The Agrarian to Industrial Revolution yeah we missed it and few of us lived the
00:53:18
technological Revolution right we kind of came in at the heels of it but I suspect that this time is not different
00:53:24
freeberg your thoughts on this I think you've said something similar on past episodes but it is kind of tipping and
00:53:32
into public Consciousness and it's also affecting White Collar jobs this time not just people in fields picking
00:53:39
berries and so those people may be a little more vocal and we've seen massive layoffs in Tech massive layoffs in media
00:53:46
and those jobs don't seem to be coming back people seem to be get taking the gains and just having people on the team
00:53:52
be 30% more efficient as Brian told me on my other pod so what do you think freeberg is this
00:53:59
time different or is it the same so here's this article from June 2 1983 in the New York Times all about how
00:54:09
computers are eliminating jobs in industries that were effectively offline knowledge work Industries at the time
00:54:17
creating engineering designs creating architectural drawings I think this article spoke to the fact that these
00:54:22
jobs were going to be eliminated and as we all know those jobs actually got enhanced by computers productivity went
00:54:30
up and new sub Industries emerged and in fact the overall Industries actually grew in some cases when we were fearful
00:54:36
of them being replaced due to the automation enabled by software so I think that in this particular sense we
00:54:44
can talk about the Industrial Revolution enabling through Manufacturing Systems and centralized
00:54:50
production a a replacement of manual labor with machines what we're talking about now is a replacement of knowledge
00:54:58
work that has been aided by computers with machines so the machines no longer even need the human but the reality is
00:55:04
that these systems are actually going to give humans 10 to 100x leverage so when
00:55:10
you think about that one person could spend three weeks making an architectural drawing today what if that
00:55:15
one person could make an architectural drawing every six hours so the question then is do we stop making architectural
00:55:22
drawings and we fire a bunch of Architects or does the cost of making an architectural drawing drop by 90% And it
00:55:29
enables us to do more detailed higher resolution architectural drawings across more places more frequently and the
00:55:37
industry actually booms and what we've seen historically is that when productivity goes up costs go down the
00:55:44
actual volume balloons and the economy grows so it's a it's an example where I think in this particular case we will
00:55:51
see these tools creating more leverage for knowledge work instead of just simply replacing knowledge work and that
00:55:57
humans will start to shift to a higher order of work and we'll see the economy grow and productivity go up as a
00:56:04
result so so I think that's my kind of key read on on on the story but it's very hard to connect the dots for people
00:56:11
without having all of these historical cases and I think one of the ways to think about doing this usefully is you
00:56:16
go back to the software Revolution and all the stuff that we were doing with pencils and papers before computers we
00:56:23
actually didn't lose all those jobs the people could Now do 100 times or a thousand or million times as much work
00:56:29
and new Industries emerged and productivity went up and the economy grew and so we just have to have
00:56:34
this this realization as this starts to take hold that the industries will change and that the systems will
00:56:42
actually provide leverage not replacement yeah it's such a good point and I think how what you teach your kids
00:56:49
is like really important at this moment in time like having a job that is replaced by AI where that could be
00:56:55
greatly replaced by AI might be a mistake and if you think about being a conductor freedberg or a
00:57:01
maestro a conductor of an orchestra I think that's the job of the future is can you work with these agents forget
00:57:07
about co-pilots because that's phase one of all this but agents are phase two where you have an agent who's writing
00:57:13
copy who's should the HubSpot example you get before you know a designer who's in the cloud who's an agent an AI agent
00:57:20
making you artwork and then you Stitch all these things together I've been loading chat jpt with my kids constantly
00:57:27
asking History questions and whatever questions they want I've been teaching them how to use chat GPT that's great
00:57:32
yeah I mean I think it's like a like there's this whole transition of humans doing manual labor to doing knowledge
00:57:38
work where you're using software to create digital output to now having more folks spend more of their time being
00:57:45
conceptualists or creators where you can kind of be an architect or a creator of
00:57:50
something and the system just generates it you know you you state your intended objective and the system solves for it
00:57:56
yes as opposed to hey I got to go build the Excel spreadsheet and check the formula in every cell and do all the
00:58:02
manual what if I just say hey here's what I want the model to do please generate it for me and you get the
00:58:06
result it enables you to do a 100 times more work that's why I use the analogy conductor or yeah orchestra leader sax
00:58:13
what do you think this is uh you're you're you're on the populace side you really have your finger on what
00:58:19
Americans think and it's a compliment it's a literal compliment but I do think you're I think
00:58:26
you've become a PO especially as the longer I've known you we've known each other for over 20 years you've become
00:58:30
more populist so what what's the word on the street here amongst you know gen pop
00:58:36
and how do you think they're taking this news when they see somebody like John Stewart they respect when you see
00:58:40
somebody like Jonathan John Stewart you know doing this that's like going to hit
00:58:44
a large swath of these you know you know Elites that we've talked about before on
00:58:49
the show who are losing their jobs or maybe their salaries are getting capped well first of all Jason to quote Senator
00:58:55
Gras from Gladiator I may not be a man of the people but I do try to be a man for the people yes exactly so uh oh my
00:59:04
god did you see the AI did you see the AI from some y competitor company where they like made a little video of us and
00:59:11
like we're talking about somebody's nuts and then they were like you said oh I'm
00:59:15
going to ask my butler to ask my assistant to ask my house manager to then ask My Chauffeur to pick those up
00:59:22
it's like it was a pretty great clip yeah it look funny look to be frank no one cares what John Stewart thinks he's
00:59:30
never been less relevant and less funny um this is a story that the media has been hyping up for months now CO's over
00:59:39
so they need something else to scare us with and what they really should be talking is that we've got two Wars that
00:59:44
risk spiraling out of control they don't want to go there they don't want to go there or or the
00:59:50
national debt exactly right they don't want to go there either because neither of those issues reflect well on the
00:59:56
current Administration and power so they're going to scare us with this now look in the short to medium term AI
01:00:01
leads to productivity gains in the long term it may lead to job losses but as you guys pointed out hopefully by then
01:00:08
we'll have lots of other jobs created by the productivity boom that we're going to get and this has been the case
01:00:14
throughout history with regard to technology improvements and if we don't have these productivity improvements
01:00:19
what's going to drive the growth in GDP what's going to allow us to pay off this
01:00:22
enormous national debt that seems to be yep you know so large that we it's unrep
01:00:28
we need the productivity gains that AI is going to unlock without them we're definitely toast so look I I don't place
01:00:34
a lot of stock in this John Stewart's story it's just one of many that the media is is creating to try and scare us
01:00:41
about AI that's actually a great guest John Stewart would be a great guest along with Lena Khan put those on the
01:00:46
list have you seen this um clip where Yan Leon basically says our best llm is 50 times smaller than what a
01:00:53
four-year-old has processed since they've been old is awake has been awake a total of 16,000 hours and you say Okay
01:01:01
16,000 hours multiply this by 3600 seconds per hour and then figure out like what's the um bandwidth of the
01:01:10
optical nerve going to the cortex it's about 20 megabytes right you have 1 million nerve fibers per uh per per eye
01:01:17
and it's about 10 bytes per second right give or take um so multiply that's 10 the 15 bytes by the time you four 15
01:01:26
times more than whatever llm like the biggest LM in the world have been trained on okay so what that tells you
01:01:33
is that in the space of a few months a baby has seen more information than the biggest LMS that we have the point is
01:01:39
that and this is one of the foremost experts in Ai and really one of the fathers of modern AI what he's basically
01:01:45
saying is it's still more artificial than intelligent and everybody needs to take
01:01:52
a deep breath and understand that there's just going to be a lot more work before you get to this omnipresent agent
01:01:57
that just replaces and destroys everything and thinks on its own yeah I'm willing to bet on all of us versus a
01:02:03
bunch of four-year-olds and I just want to say Kumbaya to Davos as well a clip from Davos thanks for letting us use
01:02:09
that yeah it's interesting sacks like um the number of jobs that will be replaced or augmented and then the
01:02:18
creation of jobs and then you start thinking about well how many jobs exist in the real world I saw weo is doing
01:02:24
Uber Eats deliveries and you're just think wow more people are going to be able to afford ubber which is kind of
01:02:29
expensive to to use so consumption is going to go up and then you think about the Optimus and then what's the other
01:02:34
robot company that's making a general human robot figure and man those are starting to get really interesting and
01:02:42
and I think that's going to be the unlock so maybe you could speak a little bit to sax what do you think happens
01:02:47
when we start getting humanoid robots in the mix and do you have any investments
01:02:51
in that space I don't because I don't I don't do that kind of Hardware R&D I mean look I think you're right that AI
01:02:57
does lead to robotics because one of the hard things about robotics is just having the the robot not just move but
01:03:07
understand what's happening in the world around it and then make the right decisions about how to react to that and
01:03:14
so llms do start creating a path for the robots to be able to make Intelligent Decisions without having to be
01:03:24
programmed with a bunch of if statements right and I mean self-driving kind of does this too I mean self-driving is
01:03:30
sort of the early it's kind of like the early prototype for these kinds of robots and
01:03:36
that that's why it's not a surprised that Tesla is developing Optimus is because you think about what
01:03:41
self-driving is it's it's a device a car with a whole bunch of cameras on it it takes in all that visual information and
01:03:49
then it makes decisions about how to move and how to react and then it's it's trained based on
01:03:56
mirroring human decisions all those human decisions that Tesla's been able to gather through the combination of
01:04:01
self-driving with humans intervening allows it to train the the self-driving I guess brain
01:04:08
you could say well and it's also Sachs moving at two or three miles per hour so it can take its time and if you haven't
01:04:14
seen this figure this combines the language model with what you're discussing Sachs so the language models
01:04:20
when you show them a picture and you say hey and this is from figure and there's
01:04:24
a this is a their robot and it says hey give me something to eat have you guys seen this before I've heard some of the
01:04:29
the founders of these robotics companies talk about why they create robots in a humanoid shape and it's not just because
01:04:37
they're trying to create a replacement for humans or something like that it's also because now they can point cameras
01:04:42
at the way that humans move yes and so they can actually train these robots on how humans move and react to things so
01:04:49
you're able to kind of create a large data set kind of like with self-driving so that the robots are able to learn how
01:04:56
to how to move and I I've seen a different video where uh Optimus the Tesla robot is folding shirts you seen
01:05:03
that pretty impressive yeah what's what's really interesting about this freeberg is when I spoke to the the
01:05:09
people who are making these Evolution has made humans to operate in the world most
01:05:17
efficiently over whatever number of years and creatures before us so in fact the world is optimized for the human
01:05:26
body type and so maybe you could talk a little bit about what you think is going
01:05:31
to happen with these robots freedberg in the in the short and medium term when will we have one of these robots in our
01:05:37
houses what will the price point be in 5 to 10 years and what will they be doing
01:05:41
in five to 10 years I don't know we should explore we should explore that question at the all-in summit 2024 okay
01:05:48
shout out to Elon Elon can you bring Optimus to the event please Jason I don't think it's a 5year time frame I
01:05:54
think it's longer than that that's just my guess and one of the reasons is if you look at the use of robots in call it
01:06:02
industrial production today they don't want humans getting too close to them they're actually kind of dangerous
01:06:07
because you have these arms flying around they move quickly they're very heavy you get banged on the head by one
01:06:13
of them it's going to take you out so a good point the idea of having a robot in
01:06:17
your house that's capable of freely moving you have to make that so safe to a point that they just haven't gotten to
01:06:23
yet with robots so there's just going to be a lot of fine-tuning work that happens before this is a domestic
01:06:29
product I think in the near term it's all about industrial applications or maybe even military applications well
01:06:36
it's and if you've ever been to the the gigafactories I I was doing a little tour of one of them once and somebody
01:06:43
grabbed me because I almost wandered into one of those areas and they have tape on the floor then they have a wall
01:06:49
Etc but if you even get within a certain closeness with this tape on the floor it shuts the whole thing down
01:06:56
because they're afraid somebody's going to get crushed behind One of These Arms chth I'll give it to you when will we
01:07:02
have one of these robots in our homes for the price of a Prius now oh by the way Prius is a car that cost about
01:07:09
$50,000 that common folk drive so $50,000 robot in our houses I think it'll be less than that I
01:07:17
think it's going to be in the next two or three years you'll have a domestic help robot that you can probably pay a
01:07:23
thousand bucks a month for okay which would be like a $100,000 car payment that would be the equivalent of a car
01:07:29
payment on a $100,000 car so okay you say under five you say three what do you think free BR same bet $1,000 a month
01:07:37
robot $100,000 sticker price when will we have that in our homes no no I think it's a thousand a month thousand a month
01:07:44
which would be the equivalent over whatever number of months and what is it it does its general purpose does
01:07:49
different stuff General pures robot $1,000 a month 50 payments I think it washes the dishes I think it will do the
01:07:56
laundry take out the trash there'll be like a whole set of house household tasks that it will do walk the
01:08:03
dog no no not responsible for a live creature what do you say freeberg $1,000 a month at home robot does your dishes
01:08:11
there's a there's a great bet for us give us the over under how many years free I'm not sure I think the sold of
01:08:17
science come on man give us a year well I I don't think it necessarily follows this general purpose model I think that
01:08:23
there are like going to be more narrow application ranges and they're not going to necessarily be
01:08:35
humanoid in form factor um I don't know if you guys have seen a gecko robotics if have you guys seen this company are
01:08:42
you guys investors in this nope pretty impressive like Suite of um autonomous products that do specific
01:08:52
things in industrial settings so they have like robots that climb on the outside of buildings and look for cracks
01:08:59
using special scanning equipment but they're very autonomous in how they operate and what they can do and they've
01:09:04
got a whole class of robots that can then be each one of those robots can do many different tasks for many different
01:09:12
applications and so the form factors they've got kind of a set of form factors meaning a set of robots
01:09:18
that look differently and have different capabilities of them like little spider
01:09:22
legs or arms or or whatever and then they can be applied to go do something autonomously and then they just run and
01:09:29
they do it if you pull that up you'll see it climbing walls riding along pipes yeah they're purpose Built Well they're
01:09:36
not purpose that's what's interesting they're they're sort of a narrow range of applications but
01:09:42
they're not specific to do only one thing and so they can work in different environments and do different things and
01:09:49
so you'll kind of pick from their Suite of robots which ones you want to use to do different oh God tasks and then they
01:09:56
go and do it it's really interesting they're mostly using them for industrial monitoring applications right now like
01:10:00
looking on bridges for brakes and CLE cleaning windows cleaning windows all that kind of stuff oh cleaning windows
01:10:08
that's a good one yeah so they've got like a really cool suite and I think that's what we're likely to see in
01:10:12
domestic settings as well all right so you play by the way I will say the success
01:10:18
of gecko indicates that there's far more money to be made in industrial applications and there in consumer
01:10:26
applications today I disagree so these yeah I think every human's going to have one of these I think every household in
01:10:33
America every middle class household in America will have one of these thousand a month robots in seven years I'll give
01:10:40
it seven you you say do to do everything I say to do domestic chores taking out the trash fold and laundry domestic
01:10:49
tasks I just think it's hard to justify that because you're only spending so many hours a week doing that sort of
01:10:54
stuff is it really worth a th000 bucks a month whereas in the industrial setting
01:10:59
it makes a lot more sense those dangerous tasks like climbing on a bridge looking at the seams and climbing
01:11:03
on a a building cleaning the windows those tasks take years to do sometimes many many years of high-risk human labor
01:11:12
whereas taking out the trash and folding laundry might be a little bit more hard
01:11:16
to justify this SP all right more breaking news here during the program we'll get our war correspondent our
01:11:23
geopolitical expert David Sachs what are you seeing on the wies S well there's a
01:11:29
NATO meeting going on right now and blinkin did a press conference where he says that Ukraine will be joining NATO
01:11:35
that's the big news going viral right now Ukraine will become a member uh of NATO uh our purpose at the Summit is to
01:11:44
help build a bridge to that membership uh and uh to create a clear pathway for uh for Ukraine uh moving forward but uh
01:11:54
of course we believe that UK Ukraine deserves to be a member of NATO and that this should happen sooner rather sooner
01:12:00
sooner rather than later jamat any thoughts on this flip that just broke during the
01:12:07
program well we just I think NATO just added Sweden right and it was done in pretty record time from application to
01:12:17
admission so I would like to know whether is this just rhetoric to just keep everybody at Bay and plate the
01:12:25
ukrainians or is this real the problem that this creates is that if it is real and they're admitted then NATO has to
01:12:34
defend Ukraine which means that then America and all the other NATO allies would have to fight which means that
01:12:42
we're in a war America should not be in a war just give you the exact facts you are correct Sweden Finland applied to
01:12:50
join in May 2022 following Russia's invasion of Ukraine and they had been neutral as you know
01:12:57
for many decades Finland has a massive land border with Russia and they joined in April of 2023
01:13:04
after applying in May of 22 so just a year later and Sweden became a member in March of 2024 just two years later E's
01:13:12
membership was held up by both turkey and Hungary saak you are a resident expert on Ukraine and all things
01:13:19
geopolitical your thoughts on the one hand what blinkin is saying is more the same here because it's been the
01:13:24
administration's policy to seek to bring uh Ukraine into NATO since they took office they've reiterated that over and
01:13:31
over again and it's one of the major reasons for this war is that the Russians said over and over again this
01:13:37
was a red line for them that's why there's a war in Ukraine the idea that you're going to be able to bring Ukraine
01:13:43
into NATO however when the war is going so badly is now entering the territory of being delusional I mean this is like
01:13:51
a delusional comment and if you just want to understand how badly things are going look at yesterday's Politico which
01:13:58
was called Ukraine is at Great risk of its front lines collapsing the source for this article was high ranking uh
01:14:05
Ukrainian officials close to zelu who's the former commander-in-chief some people speculated that zi himself might
01:14:12
be the source but at a minimum it's high-ranking Ukrainian officers who reported to zelu and what they say in
01:14:20
this article is that the prognosis in Ukraine is grim they say that the sad truth is that even if the funding bill
01:14:28
is approved by the US Congress a massive resupply may not be enough to prevent a
01:14:32
major Battlefield upset they say that there is a great risk of the front lines collapsing wherever Russian generals
01:14:38
decide to focus their offensive which people expect in the next few months and there's nothing that can help Ukraine
01:14:45
now because there are no serious Technologies able to compensate Ukraine for the large mass of troops Russia is
01:14:51
likely to hurl at us this is a quote from one of the Ukrainian officials we don't have those Technologies and the
01:14:58
West doesn't have them as well ins sufficient numbers so what they're saying is that even if the funding bill
01:15:05
goes through the 61 billion it's not going to be enough to save Ukraine and at the very moment that that is now
01:15:12
being finally honestly reported by Western media it's something I've been saying now for months finally the truth
01:15:19
is coming out you have blinkin doubling and tripling down on these comments that
01:15:24
nevertheless Ukraine will be joining NATO and chamath is right under Article 5 an attack on one is an attack on all
01:15:31
therefore if Ukraine becomes part of NATO an attack on Ukraine by Russia which is currently ongoing will be
01:15:37
considered an attack on the United States then you have to add to the mix the fact that macron and other European
01:15:43
leaders have actually been advocating for NATO descending ground troops and he said this over and over again he's
01:15:49
doubled down on this multiple times so you have a dynamic now where this isn't just hot rhetoric by blinkin this really
01:15:58
has the risk of tipping over into policy I would say in a Biden second term where
01:16:04
Biden agrees to do what our European allies are already calling for which is send in NATO troops to Ukraine to save
01:16:12
Ukraine from what Politico calls an imminent collapse I think this is a very dangerous situation I mean we're really
01:16:19
talking about here is World War III so if you want to have a serious chance of World War I in the next four years and I
01:16:25
would say go ahead and vote for Biden in November I mean this is just very clear
01:16:28
to me I'm personally not willing to accept that risk I'm not willing to accept a 10% or 1% risk of that chance
01:16:35
but I think blink putting it on the table here I think people should be deeply concerned about this and there
01:16:40
should be a lot of followup questions for blinkin and the administration about this freeberg should the free country of
01:16:47
Ukraine be able to join NATO on some timeline or should they be banned from ever joining NATO
01:16:56
I think the statements are correct that Ukraine joining NATO escalates conflict and we will find ourselves in a
01:17:03
deao global conflict World War now the question is is that the the cycle the natural cycle I will once
01:17:14
again Nick pull it up please reference ralo and his typical big cycle behind Empires rise and decline as he spoke at
01:17:24
length with us in person about at the Allin Summit last year he points out that the era of
01:17:31
prosperity that over the last 500 years we've seen six major Empires go through is followed by a debt bubble which uh
01:17:40
drives a wealth gap which ultimately leads to economic challenges which means printing more money which is the cycle
01:17:47
we are going through right now with a as you guys know2 to three trillion dollar
01:17:52
annual deficit and explosion in um federal debt levels and that ultimately leads inevitably to external conflict to
01:18:01
war now the particular motivations in every case in all six times this has happened in the last 500 years look
01:18:09
different when you read the history books about what were the circumstances that drove us to external conflict that
01:18:15
drove that Nation to war but the truth is every single one of them was preceded by a debt bubble income and inequality
01:18:24
wealth Gap and the printing of money and there's a relationship between those economic factors and a desire for
01:18:31
conflict and I think that is what we are seeing play out over the past couple of
01:18:35
years starting with our um motivated interest in supporting Ukraine against uh the Russia conflict and now
01:18:44
escalating it towards inviting Ukraine to join NATO to escalate the conflict itself now I think there's a notion that
01:18:53
having a war is stimulating having a war is unifying this should Wag the door Wag
01:18:59
the Dog Theory I I don't think it's a Wag the Dog Theory as much as it is what do you do when the economic condition of
01:19:06
the na nation is such that the federal government has to print money to support the economy and or to bridge the wealth
01:19:13
Gap and when under those circumstances in order to unify the country in order to motivate a system of unification
01:19:20
amongst a fracturing Society or fracturing economic strata you feel like you have to have an
01:19:27
external enemy and that the notion of War itself is economically stimulating I think that those are the motivating
01:19:35
factors that we've seen play out six times in the last 500 years and we may be unfortunately seeing play out here
01:19:41
again as we talked to Graham Allison Ray Doo about last year we said what can we
01:19:47
do to avoid this that there have been times historically where these things have been avoided but if we're not being
01:19:54
cognizant what's going on here and motivating a different tact and a different path whether it's through our
01:20:01
electoral cycle or through being loud and vocal in whatever media channels we each have access to to make folks more
01:20:10
aware of this I think you know we will find ourselves walking down this path of looking for global conflict and finding
01:20:16
it jamat you look like you wanted to chime in there yeah of the three presidential candidates to be very clear
01:20:23
one is supportive then of some kind of Confrontation because by proxy they're supportive of admitting Ukraine into
01:20:33
NATO which would create a war and two are pretty clearly antiwar and just for people who know the uh boom bus cycle
01:20:39
behind Empire's rise and declines you can see that if you're on the the YouTube video but the sixth of eight
01:20:47
moments is revolutions and Wars as freeberg is pointing out there are two more that come after that debt and
01:20:52
political restructuring and then the New World Order emerges and so the question
01:20:58
here I guess becomes can diplomacy win the day and then is blink's point that they eventually can become a member or
01:21:05
that they're imminently going to become a member and it's breaking news so we don't know if he's speaking about this
01:21:12
clearly let's just be really clear on this the words he used were very carefully chosen yeah and that means
01:21:18
that there was a media and press strategy conversation that was had by him and his staff which obviously
01:21:25
found its way into the White House administra and that there was executive conversation about this this is the
01:21:32
positioning we need to now be clearly stating which means that this is now policy he did not slip up on those words
01:21:39
this was not some offthe cuff comment this was clearly a media trained statement which means that it is it is
01:21:47
Administration deled by him exactly at the next White House Press Conference you will hear the question asked by
01:21:53
reporters is this the White House position and they will say yes it is yeah and just to be clear that that
01:22:00
video had a couple of edits in it and we don't have the full press conference here the quote from the hill is Ukraine
01:22:05
will become a member of NATO period our purpose at the Summit is to help build a
01:22:10
bridge to that membership which then seems like this would this if you're building a bridge that takes time so
01:22:16
maybe they mean overtime the fullness of time I to be able to do this in the next
01:22:22
year would be if it was on the time timeline of Finland would be insane I I cannot it would be insane but they're
01:22:28
not ruling it out and I think you have to look at the context of what's Happening he's making these remarks as
01:22:34
all the news from the battlefield is terrible Ukraine is losing and it's at risk of collapsing and European leaders
01:22:42
like mccrone are therefore calling for direct NATO intervention in the war so for blinkin to be making this sort of
01:22:50
statement as really adding fuel to the fire and let's see if he walks it back let's see if clarifies it I predict that
01:22:55
he won't because this is adct clarification for sure because this does not feel like it' be good for voting
01:23:01
because the war is incredibly unpopular it'll make the election pretty simple every other issue all the social issues
01:23:07
that we fight about will fall away the debt will fall away the Border will fall away if this is true it's does America
01:23:15
want to go to war well chamath I think I think we're already at that point even if there is some sort of clarification
01:23:21
and the reason I say that is because Biden clearly is very committed to this Ukraine policy it didn't just start when
01:23:27
he became president it started when he became vice president and was managing the Ukraine portfolio for Obama this is
01:23:34
why Hunter Biden got that job in Ukraine because Biden was running the show there
01:23:39
and they have been very committed to this idea of bringing Ukraine into NATO for decades I mean he supported when he
01:23:44
was a Senator so this is not like freeberg said this is not like just some randomly chosen words out of the blue
01:23:50
blink measures his words carefully he knows what he's saying and this is something that Biden clearly
01:23:57
is passionate about and what you have to believe is that in a Biden second term he's going to manage this whole uh
01:24:04
situation so perfectly that this war is not going to escalate any further and I just I have no confidence in that
01:24:10
remember if you want to use a historical analogy go back to woodro Wilson in 1916
01:24:16
he was elected on literally the catchphrase he kept us out of War less than one year later we were in World War
01:24:23
I World War I yeah so this idea of well Biden wouldn't possibly get us into a war I mean history shows otherwise
01:24:32
history shows that presidents once they win reelection are more likely to get us
01:24:38
into war rather than less because they don't have to fear voters so then the question is what is in Joe Biden's heart
01:24:46
what's he passionate about he is clearly passionate about this cause about bringing Ukraine into NATO and certainly
01:24:53
not having Ukraine collapse or lose this war whereas Trump and Bobby Kennedy have
01:24:58
both said that they will end this war they will seek a peace deal if elected I think that's enough right
01:25:05
there yeah I mean and obviously Lincoln and Biden are looking for peace as well they just don't want to lose the war no
01:25:12
they're not looking for peace I disagree with that I think they are definitely looking for peace You can disagree but
01:25:16
they definitely want peace why they re the deal at IST at the beginning of this war yeah yeah because they uh I think
01:25:22
don't want Russia to determine who gets to be in NATO and they want free countries to decide is that a war for I
01:25:28
mean that that is I guess the existential question here is at what point do we want to let free democracies
01:25:34
determine their future and protect them from invading countries that is like actually the core of this is do you
01:25:40
believe in democracy do you believe free countries should have the autonomy to pick their future and is that worth
01:25:47
fighting for that is the question the world faces right now I think that framing I think that framing is not
01:25:52
totally accurate I think of course those things are good and right things I think
01:25:57
the thing is on the balance of issues there are seasons when certain priorities need to be shaped by a
01:26:03
country and right now we're in a season where there's tremendous domestic instability in our country and and our
01:26:13
bance our country you're saying in our country yeah and our balance sheet is breaking so I think the question isn't
01:26:18
that is democracy important of course it's important it's how relatively important is it abroad relative to these
01:26:27
domestic issues here yeah that I hold on let me just finish is it worth fighting for is the issue and is it
01:26:35
worth fighting for when you don't have the resources to do it now if we were sitting here and a country next to
01:26:41
Ukraine was invaded say Finland or say France or another country in Europe was invaded we would absolutely go to bat
01:26:49
for them but for Ukraine we won't go to bat for them they're not part part of NATO and you know this is the when go to
01:26:56
are you saying are you saying send American soldiers because that's what we're talking about if France or Finland
01:27:01
was in would you be opposed if France would if Russia invaded France would you defend France would you be in favor of
01:27:06
the course that's our article that's our article five guarantee under NATO this is why I don't want to extend an article
01:27:11
5 guarantee to Ukraine because it will put us directly in conflict with Russia and I'm not interested in being in war
01:27:17
war II right and then so Finland and Sweden come up and I guess the argument would be would you be in favor of
01:27:23
sending troops to defend Finland and Sweden they latest members of NATO and would you be in favor of committed now
01:27:28
we're committed and were you in favor of them joining NATO I guess is the next question should we discussed it on the
01:27:33
Pod I explained that it was creating a liability not an asset but what's done is done should free countries be able to
01:27:38
join NATO I guess is at the end of the I think that's an excellent question actually let me make two points on that
01:27:43
the first one is countries don't have a right to join NATO any more than I have a right to join Augusta Country Club
01:27:50
just because I'm a golf player doesn't mean I get to join Augusta okay it's up to the current membership of Augusta or
01:27:57
NATO to decide whether they're going to Emmit a country based on what is in their interest it has never been in our
01:28:03
interest to make Ukraine a security dependent of the United States sorry this is the reality the second thing I
01:28:09
want to point out is that what was Russia demanding they were demanding Ukrainian neutrality they were not
01:28:17
basically looking to conquer Ukraine they wanted them to be neutral so Ukraine did not have to give give up its
01:28:25
freedom okay they just had to agree to be neutral that was the key issue that's what makes it very different than some
01:28:31
other historical analogies and that was not acceptable to us at the very beginning of the war blinkin said that
01:28:37
we would insist on an open door policy we would yeah clearly the right move here would have been to kick the C down
01:28:42
the road and just tell Putin we'll take it off we'll take NATO off the table for
01:28:46
10 years or 20 years and then we could have outlasted Putin you and I agreed on you agreed on that before the war
01:28:52
started and the war started everyone forgot that that was the key kasus belli of this war just more diplomacy it's
01:29:00
better can I just say one thing that go ahead Sak you would be the perfect member of Augusta were not for one small
01:29:09
issue be careful J Ryan withno oh austa oh my gosh that was my favorite from who is
01:29:19
the lunatic derang guy from New York was he in Congress they expelled him after six months
01:29:26
George Santos Santos they like are you Jewish he's like I'm jewi is is is like a little pause in the
01:29:34
middle all right listen another amazing episode episode 173 congratulations to our CEO John Hal he's with us now I
01:29:42
we'll make Jesus Christ uh nice call back please do us a favor do us a favor 486,000 people following the YouTube
01:29:54
channel get in there and be part of the Q&A when we hit 500,000 and your best chance of being part of the one million
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subscriber party which I think chat's gonna oversee it'll be at the win in Las Vegas there oh okay there it is we we
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have a location and then the Allin Su make an announcement next week go to YouTube Type in Allin and
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subscribe for the Rainman David Sachs yeah chth poopaa the German dictator and your Sultan of science Who Loved Dune 2
01:30:27
he loved it he saw it twice overated that good I'm going to see it twice I'm gonna go see it again go see it in IM my
01:30:34
God the comment boards got so angry furious at furious at overrated I mean this set them off like nothing has
01:30:43
ever set them off I don't know try making a comment about Trump enjoy my world you can't attack Tim Timothy
01:30:52
shalam sh my God man they were really rushing to his defense I mean he does look like he
01:31:00
drinks a lot of soy I'll be honest I think that guy only I don't think that guy's ever had whole milk I think skinny
01:31:08
I think skinny people like that when you're super skinny like that you travel in packs to protect each other as a
01:31:13
group oh so like you can get in a group like hyenas or something and then just protect each other yeah it's like like
01:31:19
oh we got to stick up for each other because if we don't you know hey are you standing sideways
01:31:25
pod like they're like a pod a pod of the old like the Roman Turtle protection thing that they were do yeah yeah
01:31:32
Shields up as one as one so is now up to 630 million in the box office pretty pretty good run huh you know they're
01:31:41
gonna do D and three now oh it's definitely happen he's just gonna be negotiating a big price tagal big deal
01:31:47
yeah big deal all right everybody you know what to do and we'll see you next time on love you boys the world greatest
01:31:54
podcast all tell your friends your win ride David and instead we open source it to
01:32:07
the fans and they've just gone crazy with it love [Music] you besties that's my dog taking your
01:32:22
driveways oh man oh man myit will meet me at we should all just get a room and just have
01:32:30
one big huge orgy cuz they're all useless it's like this like sexual tension that they just need to release
01:32:41
somehow we need to get merch [Music] our I'm going all in