00:00:00
we're going mullet this week in honor of your you're closest to Mullet right now
00:00:06
S I see you trying to tuck the lettuce in it's not going to work we see it back there well I need the ponytail whoow you
00:00:11
went full knot where is this photo like a secret camera in his room what is this
00:00:17
no my kids took it oh my are you really doing a douche knot one of my daughters is playing with my hair she wants to see
00:00:24
if she can make a ponytail with it so she made a ponytail and then took a photo so we FedEd into chat GPT to ask
00:00:30
who it looked like and it said Thomas Jefferson just serious question did you do a fit check with with Tucker on that
00:00:35
did you send him that and say fit check yeah not everything has to do with Tucker jel the joke's look at the smile
00:00:41
if you guys don't know what a fit check is ask your daughters a wait what what check a fit check a fit check you take a
00:00:47
picture of yourself you send it to your friends you say fit check and then they tell you if you look good for the day oh
00:00:52
okay it's kind of like it's kind of like a wellness check but for f how you look
00:00:55
for fashion okay yeah it's like when freeberg send you I'm have anxiety about this and then we do a wellness check on
00:01:01
freedberg see if he's going to show up for the show or we do a wellness check on you when Alex Jones comes back to
00:01:06
Twitter I'm putting it out there right now and Alex Jones is on the back half of the show just to tease it just like
00:01:12
I'm going to tease these photos I pulled the archives and here I am in 1984 with
00:01:17
my mullet that's a jcal mullet from 1984 in Staten Island on the way to a Boy Scout trip but I thought we would have a
00:01:24
little fun sa actually has been uh working he's got his hair stylist yeah well the gr he looks like a Lord of
00:01:33
the Rings character like an elf and Warrior no he looks like Theo exactly so we we'll punch that up
00:01:40
but Shaman actually surprisingly surprisingly good I can't look it's horrible freeberg you're not
00:01:48
getting away on touch here it is freberg looks like I think we should all go this
00:01:54
he looks like Orlando Bloom and Lord of the Rings right actually it looks like more like that vampire movie what was
00:02:00
that he does look like Interview with the Vampire or yeah he looks like he's teaching gender studies at Berkeley in
00:02:06
his nine nonbinary so if you want to take understanding nonbinary ethic gender studies 101 it's coming this
00:02:15
spring freeberg going to be teaching on his all Mama well done I'll find you guys a photo I'll send it to you as my I
00:02:20
did have a ponytail I sported it from about age 16 to 19 when I smoked cigarettes too and I've got photos with
00:02:26
the ponytail the trench coat smoking Sig so it fits the fits the all right so uh in in the spirit of
00:02:32
mullets let's go business first and we will go to the party at the end let's get started
00:02:39
boys let your winners [Music] ride and instead we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy
00:02:51
with it love queen of with me again today here on the all-in podcast the king of
00:03:00
we've retired queen of quinoa because David freeberg is CEO of a startup he can still be the queen is the main
00:03:07
product freeberg no so he's the king of beep he's the king of vegetables off the
00:03:12
Record wait wa wait is classified what crop you're working on yeah absolutely okay absolutely it's a SAS comp like a
00:03:19
SAS company wants to keep it on the DL which vertical they're going after Finance or sales whatever he's got to
00:03:24
keep those it could be carrots you never know he could be Captain carrots you never know just not Beats okay freeberg
00:03:30
we don't need more beets in the world yeah I'm going to say Noel dude be are delicious beets are delicious yeah
00:03:36
you're right no more beets beets with some feta cheese delicious yeah you're right we more be we need more um
00:03:41
brussels sprouts can be very good you know saut them look you caramelize the Sprouts very good let's make those
00:03:50
cheaper free BG yeah bigger and cheaper and more tasty you know you know what people people people dunk on but it's a
00:03:56
great vegetable is cabbage I like cabbage if you like shred cabbage into a salad
00:04:02
and you put a little olive oil little lemon little salt Chinese chicken salad like Chinchin in La that's nice exactly
00:04:09
yeah Sak did you like friberg's Christmas party last week how was it did you enjoy it as much as we did oh it was
00:04:14
great oh right saak didn't show up did I miss the party I thought it was next week who does a Christmas party first
00:04:20
week before you tell your story a very kind gentleman Rings the door to my gate I open the gate the guy drives in he
00:04:27
gets out he's like a big guy kind of says Mr fredberg and I'm like what am I getting served and he goes to the back
00:04:33
seat and I'm like oh my God I'm going to get shot he reaches in and he pulls out
00:04:37
a beautifully wrapped gift he's like this is from Mr Sachs Mr freedberg um happy holidays and then he gave me like
00:04:43
a touch on the shoulder or like he does this thing where he goes like this did a
00:04:46
little bow he got back in his car and he drove away a bow what is he shler it was
00:04:50
like a when you go to an amort he did the Aman thing that they do oh right that no no that wasn't his Butler that
00:04:55
was his valet that's his valet he stole the valet from the Aman the the it was the most thoughtful no show I've ever
00:05:02
had I will say sex well I'm glad to hear that I'm glad to hear that well what's funny is I just checked my inbox and my
00:05:09
invitation from you is sitting in there because I've been meaning to go but I didn't realize it was so soon so I'm
00:05:15
just looking at the date it was December 9th I didn't realize it was five days ago sorry about that someone in your
00:05:21
household did so we appreciate it someone new I went but this is my this is my second or third year going so I
00:05:26
pre I pregamed it I went and I got protein I got meat I ate a bunch of steak and a burger and then I went and
00:05:35
sure enough I talked to the staff and the staff said after much debate and Haring with freeberg he allowed cheese
00:05:45
this year you allow chees Sushi we had a whole Sushi platter thing no stop you didn't have sushi okay it's now now it's
00:05:50
my turn to tell the truth go ahead tell the truth Jamar I get in the car to drive 90 minutes 90 minutes to freees
00:05:56
for bad that's the poker trip for me by the way but yeah now and I Nat texts Allison and David we're on our way chth
00:06:06
wants to know will there be meat because I'm driving so I can't text be me and Ally says oh yeah don't worry they'll be
00:06:13
Sushi and the NAT text back okay we just got off the highway we're going home we'll see you later because we don't
00:06:19
believe says there's going to be fish fine I get there haven't eaten a thing I am starving ravenous I start I start to
00:06:26
work my way through the appetizers there's like slight green peppers and red peppers there's like some falafal
00:06:33
then there was a Spanish omelet all pretty decent okay and I'm like where's the sushi and so Phil de says a thousand
00:06:40
bucks there's no sushi and I said no there's free Berke texted me he said I've asked all the people working here
00:06:46
they say there's no sushi so I I bet him $1,000 I go outside to where the sushi is and you know how we used to make fun
00:06:55
of sky for having the filler fruit at the game cantaloup like cantaloupe and honeydew and that's all there was yeah
00:07:02
there was no sushi but there was two or three rolls with yeah four pieces of salmon strategically cut just laying
00:07:11
over I won the bet I was so hungry I was like what do I eat I'm starving so I keep eating the omelet I keep eating the
00:07:19
vegetarian food and then I see these brownies and I'm like I'll just have a brownie then I had two brownies and then
00:07:26
I was like okay I need to stop I can't I can't have this I'm and I'm still so hungry I walk outside J C where I saw
00:07:32
you we're having a cup of coffee and you know what I did I ate five baklava and then I was like this is disgusting I've
00:07:39
had no protein I've had no carbohydrates I've had no fiber I've had a [ __ ] 3,000 calories of sugar I grabbed Nat
00:07:46
and I charged home I was so mad he did he Irish mad I didn't see him say goodbye Irish goodbye freeberg and I
00:07:52
talked about it yesterday we talked it out but I was I I must have had 6,000 calories at his Christmas part coming
00:07:59
over to chof tonight yeah it's only going to be TR tip the whole night I'm sure not a singal Insight it sounds like
00:08:05
Jal pre-loaded the meat he uh did he got ready absolutely I on the way no seriously after last year last year I
00:08:11
left that party and I just typed in I just said to my you go to closest in an outb and I literally got a double double
00:08:20
and then I just had a second one on the way up this time I I literally had a steak for dinner and then I went and
00:08:25
then I I too had some po have you guys ever had Popeyes of course course I had never had it my son asked to get
00:08:32
it last week last weekend i' never had it can you believe it here we go it is the most incredible thing I've ever
00:08:38
tasted these Popeye sandwiches wow wait for the Out of Touch YouTube comments Jam is out of touch popey the problem is
00:08:45
not the eating of it it's it's how you feel two hours later but I mean I've had Chick-fil-A you know I've done the
00:08:50
chicken sandwiches at other places never po pies is incredible incredible so then I I I had
00:08:59
not almost on the edge of convincing her to go to popey's on the way home but we
00:09:03
missed the closing time so we couldn't get it I got go to starbird or bonchan those are two other Elite bro not not
00:09:10
I'm not talking fancy chicken I've had like the fancy chicken sandwiches I'm saying Popeyes is incredible I like it I
00:09:17
like austerity chath here we go have you had a FL of fish all right let's get the
00:09:21
show started here of course with me again the king of beep the dictator and the Rainman let's get to work everybody
00:09:29
epic the makers of fortnite just won a huge case with Google over the play app store
00:09:35
on Android phones for those of you don't know app stores have become an absolutely huge business for Apple and
00:09:42
Google Google App Store generates 50 billion dollar of Revenue a year now that's about 177% of Google's total
00:09:49
revenue Apple's App Store and services 85 billion in annual revenue these are on top of their franchises of hardware
00:09:57
and search but Jan San Francisco unanimously found that Google violated California's Federal antitrust laws
00:10:04
through sweetheart deals and annoying workarounds that stifled competition for example Google got spooked that other
00:10:12
game developers would follow epic's lead and launch their own app stores or route
00:10:17
people directly to their websites to avoid the 30% take rate some might call it attack Google calculated they would
00:10:24
lose 2 billion to 3.5 billion in Revenue annually if the other major game developers followed epic so they created
00:10:33
a program Coden named project hug where they basically P out bribes or incentives to discourage large
00:10:40
developers from building their own competitive app stores they also gave Spotify a sweetheart deal of
00:10:45
z% and Google paid Activision $360 million to keep in the Play Store and the discovery in this case was
00:10:55
absolutely wild according to testimony in the trial Google had deleted Ed some employees chat
00:11:00
logs and the judge told the jury to assume that the deleted information wouldn't have been favorable to Google
00:11:07
Dre only deliberated a few hours and Google plans to appeal the verdict obviously epic isn't seeking damages
00:11:15
they just want Google to change their practices they want to basically let people plug in their own Billing System
00:11:20
to avoid the 30% tax we'll see what happens next freeberg these stores clearly have monopolistic
00:11:27
characteristics but and Google actually allows for third party app stores maybe you can explain
00:11:33
why you think Apple won their case against epic but Google lost these are pretty different cases the Apple case
00:11:40
was a judge this one was a a jury of citizens in federal court I think it's worth just backing up
00:11:50
a minute and talking about the history of like apps on phones and how Android came to be prior to Google acquiring
00:11:56
Android you guys may remember there were a few companies that were were the dominant OS providers operating system
00:12:01
providers to mobile phones there was Nokia there was Microsoft there was Apple and there was
00:12:07
also blackberry and at the time a lot of the Telos the Verizon and AT&T of the world prior to this were trying to make
00:12:16
money by charging for people to install apps on phones so that was the first business model in the mobile internet
00:12:22
was the Telco would make money and everyone fought against it all the open internet providers said this is
00:12:27
ridiculous and it was clear that that was not going to be allowed so ultimately these operating systems
00:12:32
became the play and which operating system was on which mobile phone and what did that operating system then
00:12:38
allow to control what apps were allowed and so on so the reason Google bought Android is they wanted to make an
00:12:43
open-source alternative to all of these closed app and closed systems so Google bought Android 2005 made a huge
00:12:51
investment in growing the team and allowed anyone to use the Android OS Fork it make their own versions of it
00:12:58
install it on their own Hardware run it however they wanted meanwhile Google made an internal version of Android that
00:13:04
could be used on any mobile handset company's phone as a pre-installed OS now why did Google want to do this they
00:13:10
wanted to do this number one to make sure that the internet was still open and it wasn't going to end up being
00:13:15
closed from a user's perspective and number two so that anyone could install any app they wanted and the commercial
00:13:21
interest for Google which is number three is so that Google could make search Google search the default search
00:13:26
engine on that phone and have YouTube installed and all these other tools that Google makes money on including their
00:13:32
own app store now in Android anyone can install any app they want on the phone and so there's no restrictions unlike in
00:13:40
apple in in the iOS if you try and download an app off the internet and install it it has to go through the App
00:13:45
Store it has to be apple verified in order to be allowed on the phone so the whole point of Android was that it could
00:13:50
be open anyone could install anything what epic claimed in this case was that Google's Android OS gave people security
00:13:57
warnings so if you ever have tried this you download an app from a website on Android it says warning warning this may
00:14:03
cause a virus on your phone are you sure you want to do this this app hasn't been
00:14:07
verified by Google etc etc so it gives These Warnings that scare consumers off of doing that so epic can in you can
00:14:13
install fortnite Direct on your Android phone today and you can do it by downloading it from epic's website you
00:14:18
don't have to go through the Google Play Store and you can enter your credit card
00:14:21
and you can pay for stuff so it is it is an open system that allows that what these guys are claiming is that because
00:14:28
Google can default the Google Play Store on the phone it's basically what most consumers are going to use anyway and so
00:14:33
they're saying it's not fair and because they also have influence over the OS and
00:14:37
they're putting these security warnings it's inappropriate because now it's scaring people from downloading stuff
00:14:41
off the internet so that's the big claim epic's making so Google has already said
00:14:44
they're going to appeal this case because fundamentally again if this were really true and there really was deep
00:14:49
Anti-Trust issues with this you would likely have seen a federal agency come after Google not a private company suing
00:14:56
them in a civil case this would have been a much more more significant action If there really was Anti-Trust Behavior
00:15:02
but it's a lot easier to win a jury trial party to party where epic can go to a court and say hey let's go after
00:15:07
Google they're awful we make fortnite and all this sort of stuff so they do have a bias in that sense of being able
00:15:11
to do this Google's going to appeal they feel very strongly they'll win on appeal
00:15:15
and the markets obviously did a you know voted with the fact that Google stock didn't really move anywhere and the
00:15:22
market said hey this is a this is a nothing Burger Google's 40 billion in annual Play Store Revenue worst case
00:15:27
scenario like you said if gets impacted by $2 billion that's 2 billion out of 300 overall doesn't really matter and
00:15:34
likely they're going to win on appe peal anyway so you know I think the Saga will
00:15:37
continue um but I think Google's got a pretty strong case on appeal and it seems like you know it's going to be
00:15:43
very hard to kind of see a massive change in app store Behavior as a result of this case even though it's been hyped
00:15:47
up to be that that's my take on it yeah yeah great take chamath what do you think about this jury shopping and maybe
00:15:54
the fact that this isn't Lena con this isn't the FTC you know it's company to company do you think that the claims
00:16:00
here were valid do you think the jury shopping impacted this in a significant way probably I guess the simple thought
00:16:07
exercises what do we think the outcome would have been had this trial happened in Dallas
00:16:12
Texas probably different and so I think freeberg is right what does it materially prove
00:16:19
nothing with respect to the body of law it just goes to show that if you pick the right place to
00:16:25
convene these trials in the right format you can give yourself a slightly better
00:16:30
probability of winning but the question is what will you win it's not clear to me what happens now is there going to be
00:16:37
a damages portion now of this trial is that what happens next they're not seeking damages they want changes to how
00:16:44
they operate and they're trying to get a settlement and they want Google to settle out with changes to the App Store
00:16:49
policies that's what they're asking for and then what about the Epic versus Apple lawsuit is it being done in the
00:16:55
same way no they lost they lost and they appealed and there's one element that's
00:16:59
being appealed to the Supreme Court now but basically they lost and that's over and that was that convened in California
00:17:05
in a jury trial as well in San Francisco no that that was not a jury trial it was
00:17:10
a judge and but it was California yeah it was a bench trial in California yeah yeah it was also in Northern California
00:17:17
that's right yeah so sax let me bring you in on this do you think that these stores are monopolies and do you think
00:17:24
if they change their behavior especially Apple you know Alla the third party what impact that would that have on the
00:17:30
startup ecosystem because the 30% tax is significant and we see that every day with our startups I mean if you have to
00:17:36
give away 30% of your Revenue to Google and apple it's brutal and then you're advertising on Apple and Google and
00:17:43
Facebook that's another 30% of your revenue or 50% of your Revenue yeah no I agree with that so first of all these
00:17:51
app stores are absolutely monopolies within their ecosystem and Apple and Google Android are absolutely a duopoly
00:17:59
within the mobile space my experience with these types of monopolies or Gatekeepers is that they
00:18:05
exercise more more control and extract more and more of the value over time it's an iterative process in which they
00:18:12
just keep you know extracting keep taxing keep keep imposing more rules on the ecosystem for their benefit and to
00:18:19
the detriment of innovators and so I do think they have to be controlled and I think epic is doing the ecosystem a
00:18:24
favor for example on this 30% rake that you're talking about J C that level of rake might have been appropriate for
00:18:32
certain types of apps like a hobbyist app where it's literally 100% margin okay you pay 30% to the App Store it
00:18:39
doesn't work for SAS companies I mean I can tell you that I mean this would be like half of their gross margin or
00:18:44
something like that it doesn't work for a lot of companies that spend a lot of money on content creation like epic
00:18:51
which spends a lot of money in R&D to grade a game like fortnite break their models immediately
00:18:57
or Amazon with kind and so what happened is it used to be the case that Amazon could have a link
00:19:04
in their app at least directing the user to go to the amazon.com website and you
00:19:08
could buy the book there and you could circumvent the the the rake in the app and it was inconvenient for the user but
00:19:14
at least there was a way around it then Apple banned those links then they banned the ability for the app to even
00:19:21
message to the user what was happening so if for example if you use the Kindle app on iOS which I do all the time you
00:19:29
can't buy a book in it and the reason why is because Amazon doesn't want to pay the 30% rake but they can't even
00:19:34
tell you that it just looks like it's broken functionality so those of us who know go to amazon.com through the
00:19:40
browser and we buy the book there and then it magically appears in the Kindle app we've all had that experience so I
00:19:46
just think that these duopolies have to be controlled I think that it' be good if the government could figure out
00:19:51
better ways to do it I don't think m&a is the right way to do it we've talked about this before I think that
00:19:57
restricting anti-competitive tactics is really the way to stop it and like I said I can't speak to the the details of
00:20:04
epic's case but I do think they're doing the ecosystem of favor here by pushing back on these monopolies and helping to
00:20:10
keep them under control 100% agree with you saxs in your take and I think actually other people should join them
00:20:16
and the industry should really Force this issue because you are absolutely correct that they're boiling the Frog
00:20:21
now they did make some cuts under a million I think they charge 15% on the first million so they try to be nice to
00:20:26
the smaller developers pull it up not look it's actually the larger ones too pull up the the link I just said so
00:20:32
you'll see here Google charges um through the Play Store if you D if you want to have distribution I mean think
00:20:37
about the Play Store as being like a retailer you make clothing you need to have a retail store that someone can go
00:20:42
to and buy stuff the retail store has to make money you're not going to have a retail store that's free so how does the
00:20:47
retail store make money well they charge 98% of apps as you can see here are free
00:20:52
because you know they they don't make any money on that but then if you start to charge subscriptions it's 15% take on
00:20:57
automatically renewing subscriptions where it's easier the second year yeah yeah it's easier no each year look at
00:21:03
the second no it's for renewing so I know this because of Comm so in the first year it's for it's for renewing
00:21:10
subscriptions subscription products so all subscriptions that have an automatic renewal feature to them are instantly at
00:21:16
15% and as a result you know you can think about the what is it worth to get a user to not have to enter their credit
00:21:22
card info you know plus the credit card fees it's like 15% is not too crazy honestly I'm just you know I'm not
00:21:28
trying to be a super Google advocate but I'm just saying like I don't think that's too crazy and then they've got
00:21:32
this like negotiated tier where if you are a very large app developer and you want to go and negotiate with Google
00:21:37
they have a bis Dev team like Spotify and others get where they'll negotiate fees down and you can actually go and
00:21:43
like argue for better economics so they've tried to be commercial which I'm guessing is probably why Lena Khan and
00:21:49
others haven't gone after them for Anti-Trust monopolistic Behavior because they've tried to find the the
00:21:54
comfortable place where it's not going to be too crazy at least that's my read on what's going on on because otherwise
00:21:58
I mean obviously folks would be all over him you know if it really was monop the
00:22:02
boiling of the Frog issue is the one for me because then they want to charge you
00:22:05
now for placement in the App Store and get revenue from you there oh yeah I mean that's that's Amazon too Amazon's
00:22:11
got that like everyone's gotten every D Toc company in the last five years has gotten obliterated their unit economics
00:22:16
are upside down now and we've talked about this both Google's taken out the margin but Amazon forces you to buy ads
00:22:22
in order to get product placement yeah and then they force you to pay all the extra fees for inventory Amazon everyone
00:22:28
way more than any of these digital app this is the perfect place for Lina con to get active I think and the
00:22:33
settlement's super easy the entire industry should come at them in unison tons of lawsuits group lawsuits until
00:22:41
they allow when you turn on your Apple phone the ability to load Amazon's App Store epic's App Store whoever else
00:22:48
wants to have an App Store that should be your right if you buy a hardware device it should be your right to load
00:22:52
these and they shouldn't be ankled in any way and that's the other thing Android does all kinds of ankling to
00:22:57
make make those with those popups and hey this isn't safe Etc they should have a verified App Store program Amazon's
00:23:04
App Store epic's app store they should be verified or something and maybe they pay 5% to have a verified App Store but
00:23:10
yeah this is a this is going to be an ongoing issue and we'll see more of it I think so let's go on anybody else have
00:23:18
thoughts on it no okay so in other news open aai is started to cut licensing deals if you remember we had a big
00:23:27
debate about this back on episode 115 in February and I was saying hey this content is owned and and the opportunity
00:23:36
to create llms or derivative products you know is the right of the the people who make that content saak you told me I
00:23:43
was going to get rolled over but here we are I wouldn't say I said you're going to get rolled over what I said is the
00:23:48
ecosystem is going to figure this out okay let's play the tape if chat GPT takes a Yelp review and a you know a
00:23:56
cond n traveler review and they represent it based on the best content out that's out there that they've
00:24:02
already ranked because they have that algorithm with page rank or Bings ranking engine and then they republish
00:24:06
it and then that jeopardizes those businesses that is profoundly unfair and not what we want for society and they
00:24:12
are interfering with their ability to leverage their own content is profoundly unfair and those magazines and
00:24:19
newspapers need to what's that you're steam rolled that hair there it is man is my
00:24:25
hair worse now or then yeah your hair was cut back then I think you were like postco back then yeah much better right
00:24:33
now look like a toue ni can you can you just show us a picture of that it looks like you're in the Common Era that was
00:24:40
like a like an early ad this is like the Common Era now you know that's that's a
00:24:45
toue that's a t it does look like a t it looks like a raccoon okay J K I'll got some comments on this because I think
00:24:52
your fluffer has has fluffed too much on the upper parts and and unflued the bottom Parts which I think mean listen
00:24:59
don't criticize him when he was in an in between phase we all go through an inet
00:25:02
phase with our hair it's it's part of the process now I know why we're talking about this topic J KS because you think
00:25:07
you it's it's a total non-story or it's I shouldn't say it's a non story let me finish let me let me finish it off the
00:25:12
our okay so just so we know what's going on here openai announced a licensing deal with Axel Springer to bring
00:25:18
real-time news from Politico and the fake news from Business Insider two cha B thank you you literally sound like
00:25:25
Alex Jones I mean Tucker thank all F news from F news that is true he is right about that I got one thing right
00:25:35
as part of the deal Axel Springer can use chat GPT to improve their products includes all European sites this is on
00:25:41
top of the deal that open ey did with the Associated Press but most importantly most importantly I'm gonna
00:25:47
throw it you in a second most importantly when chat GPT relies on these sources it'll include a summary
00:25:52
and a link back other examples of Licensing are happening all over the industry Adobe is using stop images for
00:25:58
theirs and stable diffusion as you know that brazenly used Gettys images are being sued so freeberg you thought this
00:26:07
was unrealistic but here we are no I don't agree with your Framing and I think that I think it's unrealistic for
00:26:13
you to frame this as of validating or justifying the fact that these companies won't be able to access and utilize open
00:26:21
data under fair use to train models so that's what's G on historically right so the open web you know we a little bit
00:26:28
about where folks can get content from the open web you can browse the internet you can download all this content it's
00:26:33
all freely available it's readily available it's in it's in the open domain and then you can train models and
00:26:39
then the models can ultimately make stuff based on all that training data what this deal is is it's actually a
00:26:45
Content integration deal and I'll read this with the partnership chat GPT users around the world will receive summaries
00:26:52
of selected Global News content from Axel Springer media Brands including y yada including otherwise paid content so
00:26:58
what chat GPT is doing is they're accessing content behind a pay wall and they're be able and and instead of
00:27:04
training models on it they're able to fetch that data as a retrieval aspect of the chat GPT service so now you as a
00:27:11
user want an update on hey what's going on with Donald Trump it can search not it can not just use its training data
00:27:17
but it can recognize that hey there's a current event news question embedded in this query and I can go fetch that
00:27:24
current event news answer from this content that I've now paid for so it's not a training data set that's that's
00:27:30
now being unlocked which is what the complaint was before that all the open web data was being used for training but
00:27:35
it's behind pay wall data that can now be fetched and integrated and I think it's more interesting because it really
00:27:41
speaks to a new model for how the internet will work which we've talked about which is that there may be these
00:27:45
sort of new chat interfaces that cannot just send you to another page and Link you over somewhere but can fetch data
00:27:52
for you and present it to you in an integrated way in the response it's providing and these Services have to pay
00:27:57
pay for access to that so Che you know open AI it's a three-year deal they're paying tens of millions of dollars to
00:28:02
Axel Springer to access their closed content and present it to the user so I think it's quite a bit different than
00:28:07
you know using training data uh which is what you know the complaint was the first time around and it's more of like
00:28:12
a really interesting front end feature for what chat GPT is becoming saak you wanted to add to
00:28:18
that I don't really have a lot to add to that I think fre did a great job explaining that issue I mean look I
00:28:24
think jcal you've had a little bit of an obsession with this copyright issue and well protecting protecting rights
00:28:29
holders I do uh believe in I don't know freeberg makes a really great point which is there's a difference between
00:28:36
copying somebody's copywritten work which would be a violation of copyright and using content that's available on
00:28:43
the open web to train a model to create entirely new content and I do think that
00:28:50
AI models should be able to use the content that's available on the web under a fair use doc do to train
00:28:58
their models for the benefit of consumers and um I don't see a reason to try and tie that up in a bunch of
00:29:04
copyright lawsuits if Chad GPT is producing a plagiarized result then you may have grounds for a copyright
00:29:10
infringement claim so what I would say is you know when you look at that fair use Doctrine I've got a lot of
00:29:16
experience with it having done this in blogs and and other content companies you know the fourth Factor test I'm sure
00:29:21
you're well aware of this is the effect of the use on the potential market and the value of the work and if you look at
00:29:28
the lawsuits that are starting to emerge it is Getty's right to then make derivative products based on their
00:29:34
images I think we would all agree stable diffusion when they use these open web that is no excuse to use an open web
00:29:41
crawler to avoid getting a license from the original owner of that just because you can technically do it doesn't mean
00:29:47
you're allowed to do it in fact the open Web projects that provide these say explicitly we do not give you the right
00:29:54
to use this uh you have to then go read the copyright laws on each of those websites and on top of that if somebody
00:30:01
were to steal the copyrights of other people put it on the open web which is happening all day long you still if
00:30:07
you're building a derivative work like this you still need to go get it so it's no excuse that I took some sight in
00:30:13
Russia that did a bunch of copyright violation and then I indexed them for my training model so I think this is going
00:30:19
to result free free can you shoot me in the face and let me know when this segment's
00:30:25
okay all right so segment is now over I was about to throw it to you I mean like
00:30:32
stop with this Naval gazing nonsense we're in inning one and nobody knows anything and the most important thing is
00:30:41
that this will get sorted out through trials that's where you were right Jason it's going to go to court and it's and I
00:30:47
think we should just not opine on this stuff because it's esoteric at best and it's kind of like whatever well some of
00:30:54
it will go to court other ones will be done in the free market market like we see here another thing you care about
00:30:59
this more than most people because you are a journalist and you think this going to put people out of work I am a
00:31:03
content creator I'm also an author as you know and a podcaster and they create all kinds of content I do think that you
00:31:08
should get permission before you leverage people's work to create div derivative products correct and actually
00:31:14
you're starting to see this in uh Dolly and chat GPT seems to be getting ahead of this because of all the the incoming
00:31:20
lawsuits check this out I started asking Dolly to make me Star Wars characters of
00:31:25
bulldogs and I said make a Jedi Bulldog it did that no problem then I asked it to make a version of this using uh and
00:31:32
make a Darth Vader and it said I'm unable to generate images based on your request due to our content policy if you
00:31:38
have other ideas and Concepts you'd like to BL feel free to share so I said make
00:31:43
me a Sith Board Cat and it basically made me Darth Vader and so it's very clear that the team over at open AI is
00:31:50
now taking prom engineering you're like a clever prompt engineer there well yeah
00:31:54
I got a round copyright here right and so how silly like all of this stuff is this is just a a drag coefficient on
00:32:02
development of AI because and on users cuz now you've got to like word your prompt exactly the right way well I
00:32:08
think what they're doing is they know that Marvel and all the Disney characters all the Star Wars characters
00:32:13
they're very protective of their IP Disney is going to launch their own Dolly type stable diffusion product
00:32:18
where you can do this put yourself on a star make a Star Wars character not going be any good at this it doesn't
00:32:23
matter if they're good or not it's their IP and so fans can create their own artwork that's in the vein of like a
00:32:29
Darth Vader M they can but they can't do it commercially and what chat jpt and open ey here is commercial because I pay
00:32:35
$20 a month to chat GPT so that's what you're missing a fan of course can make a Jedi cat or whatever all right well
00:32:41
all I know is you played this like way back video from episode 15 or something February no no no it okay from episode
00:32:49
115 as if you had you guys never want then it turns out that freeberg totally blew up your case he didn't blow up my
00:32:56
case I I will be right and continue to be right okay now let's go to something we can all we're definitely not striking
00:33:01
this segment I liked it let's go no no no no it's spicy we like a little spicy here I didn't even have to refute you
00:33:05
freeberg just did it it was beautiful well I mean listen Okay you came in you thought you had the goods admit it no
00:33:12
he's like playing this way back video from like 45 episodes ago I finally got him I finally got saxs I was finally
00:33:18
right about something if you hadn't claimed you never used the word steamroll I would have never played the
00:33:22
clip oh my God I have some live footage I just want to go through it and just talk about it strike it I
00:33:28
strike anyways yeah so guys there's this copyright thing I wanna okay hold on let
00:33:33
me let me just reframe let me just start that again okay you know copyright issues are okay wait hold on a second
00:33:39
hold on a second well listen there's this thing I want to talk about copyright but hold who are you doing oh
00:33:47
these are a super NBA Live stre when you do a deal for okay hold on when you write
00:33:54
something and you want to get okay hold on hold hold on everybody that writes gets a chance okay hold on a second I
00:33:59
mean if I could get up that high I would miss the dunk and still be Happ about you can't just take content he's about
00:34:04
to steamroll okay all right thank you I strike let's keep going strike strike everything come on J Cal
00:34:12
you teed up the way back clip of yourself you teed up the way back clip of yourself so you brought I knew you were
00:34:19
going to deny it and I just you brought this on for you to deny yeah but you you
00:34:24
tried to dunk and it didn't work okay okay okay has to take the piss out of me I don't know I'm seeing a trend
00:34:31
no don't bring up the way back Clips unless you have a clean dunk all right here we go don't bring it to the hoop
00:34:37
and then Breck it break it break it he had a receipt it turned out the credit card was
00:34:44
stolen okay here that's pretty good all right here we go you know who actually deserves credit
00:34:53
for admitting that he was wrong all we'll get to we'll get get okay Red's coming here we go great
00:35:02
transition great transition great transition here we go Elon versus the FCC another government agency is now
00:35:07
targeting Elon this is a little bit complicated but let me explain on Tuesday the FCC rejected star Link's
00:35:14
application for 900 million in subsidies for Rural Broadband starlink originally won
00:35:20
these back in 2020 when they agreed to provide high-speed internet to 640,000 rural homes across 35 States funding
00:35:27
would have come from the rdf rural digital opportunity fund I guess the government is paying for expanding
00:35:35
Broadband services in rural areas uh and Starling obviously is perfect for that it's actually the only solution for this
00:35:41
really she can't run fiber to these locations so the FCC found that Starling quote had failed to meet its burden to
00:35:49
be entitled to those funds and here's the quote FCC has a responsibility to be a good Steward of limited public funds
00:35:56
funds meant to expand access to rural Broadband not fund applicants that failed to meet basic program
00:36:03
requirements Brendan Carr one of the fcc's Commissioners dissented from the agency's decision and he did not hold
00:36:10
back last year this is a quote after Elon aquired Twitter President Biden gave federal agencies a green light to
00:36:16
go after him today's decision certainly fits the Biden administration's pattern of regulatory
00:36:21
harassment this is a decision that cannot be explained by any objective application of law fact or policy Carl
00:36:28
went on to explain uh how his decision was made and why it's unprecedented instead of applying the traditional FCC
00:36:34
standards to the record evidence which would have compelled the agency to confirm star Link's $885 million warant
00:36:41
the FCC denied it on the grounds that starlink is not providing highspeed internet service to all these locations
00:36:47
today as noted the fcc's Milestone does not kick in until 2025 let me toss to usak thoughts on the Biden hit squad
00:36:55
going after e I mean I can't remember anything quite like this this is absolutely extraordinary I mean you have
00:37:02
a sitting member of the FCC telling us that the FCC is engaging in political retaliation he sits on the board of the
00:37:09
five commissioners of the FCC they just canceled an $885 million contract to starlink what was that contract for to
00:37:15
provide rural internet service starlink is the only company that has that capability today it's the only one that
00:37:22
has that capability if you look forward a few years it is by far the best providing Broadband from space which is
00:37:28
the best way to get into these rural areas so what did the commission do well they cherry-picked they took speed test
00:37:35
snapshots from two cherry-pick moments in time and so even that probably was not an accurate reflection of where
00:37:41
starlink is today but they then said based on those snapshots that starlink would not be able to meet the standards
00:37:48
in three years so remember the requirements that they're saying that Starling violated don't even have to be
00:37:55
met for three years so somehow they're saying that starlink will not get there in three years
00:37:59
they're preemptively judging the service to meet a standard that is not even required to meet today and nobody else
00:38:06
is even close to meeting the standard so elon's response to this was guys okay if
00:38:12
you're going to cancel the contract for us like just save the money because the competitors that you're giving it to
00:38:19
have even less of a service than we do yeah so just like save the taxpayer the money but they're not doing that so this
00:38:26
is really remarkable and what Carr said here is that the bid Administration is choosing to prioritize its political and
00:38:33
ideological goals at the expense of connecting Americans we can should reverse course this is now part of a
00:38:40
pattern of the federal government harassing Elon and his companies and it all stems from Biden at that press
00:38:46
conference saying we got to look at this guy you know like Tony Soprano yeah we got to look at this guy you know
00:38:52
whatever um I mean it was like and so since that's a nice restaurant you got they'd be terrible if anything ever
00:38:58
happened to it yeah J you do the I can't do it at any event so Biden says this press conference we got to look at this
00:39:05
guy and since then they've investigated Tesla for supposedly building a glass house which I didn't know was a crime
00:39:11
that's amazing yeah SpaceX which is partially a defense contractor was sued by the doj because they were hiring too
00:39:20
many Americans and didn't they weren't hiring enough refugees into sense of National Security Ro
00:39:27
that they would surely be sued for doing if they other way and now they're they've canel a contract for SpaceX
00:39:34
having the best service in the space but somehow missing a goal that they're not
00:39:38
required to meet for three years this is harassment it's transparent yeah and the
00:39:44
question I have is do we want to live in a country where the government can engage in this kind of naked political
00:39:50
retaliation against its critics and I have to say you know there was a there was a Time in America where you know
00:39:57
Nixon was roundly attacked for having this quote unquote enemies list where supposedly you know he had made a list
00:40:03
of all his enemies and the IRS was auditing them okay we are so far beyond that point and the media isn't
00:40:11
interested at all and no one's really interested unless you like what elon's doing but if you don't you know if
00:40:17
you're on the opposite side of the political Spectrum as Elon you don't care and there's nobody who's willing to
00:40:23
say in a neutral way that political retaliation should not be part of our system I mean we we have a presidential
00:40:29
candidate running specifically saying I am your retribution I mean this is something that has to stop across all of
00:40:34
politics nobody should be using their political power to do any retribution against anybody they should be operating
00:40:41
the government efficiently in the best interest of all Americans to be honest okay so maybe I don't like that rhetoric
00:40:47
from Trump I don't think it's helpful but what did Trump ever do that's in this league I mean everything they
00:40:52
accuse Trump of doing the fascism the retribution all that kind of stuff seems to me the Biden Administration is doing
00:40:59
here yeah well I mean he says he's going to do it he says the first thing he's going to do is go after journalists and
00:41:03
do you think Trump did no retribution when he was in office I mean I have to look through every single
00:41:11
issue heever done one it's interesting I mean one doesn't come off the top of my
00:41:14
head I I'm trying to remember if he ever said I'm G to go after this person or that person I don't remember an instance
00:41:19
of him saying he said lock her up that was and he never did it Trump was all talk in this respect he didn't
00:41:27
yes this is what Peter teal said like you know his quote about him like just look at his actions not at what he says
00:41:32
he he saber rattles and he says he's going to do retribution against everybody but you know then he doesn't
00:41:37
so even talking about Trump in this context is a deflection jcal the action is being taken by the Biden
00:41:42
Administration they've now weaponized multiple federal agencies to go after Elon on these cases that seem
00:41:47
transparently trumped up a glass house not hiring enough refugees to National Security roles canceling a contract for
00:41:55
the for starlink which is by far the best rural internet service how do you even justify it these cases on their
00:42:01
face I'm Not Jus I'm 100% I'm in 100% agreement you think there's this is politically motivated harassment of Elon
00:42:09
by the Biden Administration 100% he said it he said it and he didn't invite him to the eveve summit so you just take
00:42:14
Biden at his actions if you don't invite B if you don't invite Elon to the EV Summit it's obvious that he's got it in
00:42:21
for this guy and now it's obvious he's told people to you know investigate him and harass him it's obvious so why do
00:42:28
you think they don't like him why do you think Biden doesn't like him why doesn't
00:42:33
Biden like him because he's nonunion it's obvious that's that's the beginning and end of it I mean I'm sure the
00:42:37
freedom of speech things and you know Twitter doesn't help but this predates Biden is a union guy and he will not
00:42:45
have non-union people he will not support nonunion people he is bought and sold by the Unions that's 100% And Elon
00:42:50
said that that may be how it started but I think you're underrating the Free Speech aspect oh I I I said it could
00:42:57
have to do with that but it's definitely that's the number one issue and more importantly s more importantly you're
00:43:01
saying enabling dissenting voices strongly desent absolutely I think I think that from the get-go they have
00:43:08
sought to exercise control over the Twitter formerly Twitter now xplatform because it is the Town Square for
00:43:16
political speech sueded they succeeded the FBI everybody they had total control of it until Elon somehow bought the
00:43:22
company which was not in their plans frankly that was just a fluke I mean that was something that Elon did out of
00:43:27
the blue because he cares a lot about free speech and he opened up the Twitter jails and you know stopped the
00:43:33
censorship and opened up the Twitter files and we found out that this was not just a private company acting on its
00:43:39
own it was being directed or encouraged by they giving TW they were giving him list of tweets saying hey these tweets
00:43:48
probably violate your terms service yeah you know and the FBI acting as the quote
00:43:53
unquote belly button of the whole federal government directing all these takeown requests totally on americ I
00:43:58
think that the pattern of actions more than anything mandates that Biden and his team actually have to address
00:44:05
publicly why it is not retribution the absence of doing that the absence of doing that at this point is going to be
00:44:12
more damaging to them than just letting things go on and claiming down the road hey this is all part of the normal
00:44:18
course of business now the guy do why why why would they address it why do they have to address it the media
00:44:23
doesn't hold him accountable the media doesn't report it the media protect like the Twitter files never even happened
00:44:27
remember that zero mainstream media coverage of the Twitter files zero mainstream media coverage of
00:44:34
these retaliatory lawsuits why would the B Administration need to explain itself
00:44:37
why would they even talk about it the fix is in well I mean now the question is being I think the mainstream media
00:44:43
are stenographers for one side of the political Spectrum which is precisely the reason did you guys on it's
00:44:49
precisely the reason why they're so upset with Elon with opening up free speech on Twitter cuz they had total
00:44:56
control of the public discourse until he did that did you see that thing this morning where somebody called out the
00:45:02
New York Times for selectively editing what Hunter Biden said to make it more broad broad did you see that Jason yeah
00:45:10
they he basically said my father has not financially been involved in my businesses and the New York Times took
00:45:17
out the word financially to make it more broad to say he's not been involved in my business obviously was involved in
00:45:22
his business did really yeah there's a clip where they show the article and they show and then they show his
00:45:28
interview and the interview is very clear he says it but the New York Times headline omits the word and doesn't
00:45:34
doesn't put it in a bracket so that it shows that it was edited it shows that that was the quote can you pull it up do
00:45:39
you have do you have that thing so crazy let me find it that's crazy I mean I would like to think there's a
00:45:46
possibility this was a mistake but man it's pretty bad I mean this is really bad by the New York Times and they got
00:45:52
to figure out who actually took that word out because it's pretty clear Biden was very involved in Hunter
00:45:58
businesses and that's why he put that word financially in there because he was on I think he's on
00:46:05
all the documents as being part of it and he's in the emails so he was the brand J ah there it is thank you Nick
00:46:12
you're very good at finding these things there okay so if you look on the left that's the article in the New York
00:46:19
Times and it's clear that that was the quote and then if you play it on the right it's actually what he said let me
00:46:25
State as clear as I can my father was not financially involved in my business wow yeah and
00:46:33
then quote says let me stay as clear as I can my father was not involved in my business now if in journalism you could
00:46:40
put an ellipsis after involved you know three dots and but why would you do that
00:46:46
this is like breaking very basic journalistic standards this is my point there's like a format right when you
00:46:50
edit out a word like that yeah you would only edit out a word if it was superflous and you wanted to have a
00:46:56
tighter quote you know if the person said M ah you can take that out and if you were taking out a long quote you put
00:47:02
three dots and then you it would show that you cut the quote there was something in between and then you went
00:47:06
to that in the case of something this important you would never take out a keyword like that that this is just
00:47:13
journalism 101 so I mean if this happens man it is it's the key word in the sentence by the way it's the key word in
00:47:21
the sentence it is it's the key word in the sentence so if the person took it out man who took it out
00:47:26
and this is the problem with the New York Times is they bury their Corrections they need to and this is
00:47:32
back to accountability you're saying freeberg the Biden Administration has to explain why they excluded Elon from the
00:47:37
EV Summits and the New York Times needs to explain why they did this or else you
00:47:41
know the mind wanders that there's some conspiracy going on here or targeting and I wonder if they changed it well
00:47:47
here's the live story is it changed in the story did they they change it yet Luke Broadwater I mean Luke Broadwater
00:47:53
is that a name from Central Casting that's not a real name is it is it I don't know oh it looks like they posted
00:47:57
a correction oh here we go correction an earlier version of this article misquoted Hunter B you said my father
00:48:02
was not Financial was not my father was so the only room I have here is if the person was live transcribing it maybe
00:48:09
and they left it out but this is too important to not have a fact Checker go through it and to have to get called out
00:48:14
on it to fix it it just shows how far the this is the equivalent though J C putting on the front page I did not kill
00:48:21
that person and then a day later it buried in page 812 I actually did kill that person I mean if you the correction at
00:48:30
the bottom of the story is good everybody sees the front page very very few people you would agree with me very
00:48:35
very few people see the correction in the old days they would put the correction on like A2 A3 of the paper
00:48:41
and it would be small and be at the bottom in the digital age you put the correction at the bottom of the article
00:48:45
so it's a little bit better but the truth is most people don't go to the bottom of the article so there's an
00:48:50
argument to put Corrections at the top of the article but journalists don't want to admit when they're wrong I think
00:48:56
the I saw I saw a list of all of the organizations investigating Elon and what was surprising was how broad some
00:49:05
of these organizations felt that they had a mandate to look into him so there was
00:49:11
like I I want to say Nick maybe you can find this on Twitter but they had a list
00:49:14
of them and it was like the Bureau of Land Management had an investigation I mean it just makes no sense like it just
00:49:22
does not smell Right In fairness Elon involved in many many very important projects so there would be a lot of
00:49:30
agencies that speaks to overregulation and then you have to drill down and say okay when are they actually targeting
00:49:35
him and so that's going to be a lot of part fish and wildlife you know Health and Human housing I mean it's a list
00:49:41
goes on you might some he fished in the wrong Pond or what what's no I think my understanding of it is you know at Star
00:49:50
base there's some estuaries or something and there was a lot of estu I mean yes we we protect animals and
00:49:59
whatever this is something that happens all over the the country where and California is actually probably the
00:50:04
leader in this but I think some crabs might have got burned not in a barbecue but by the rocket I mean literally that
00:50:12
and then this is this this speaks to what risk are we willing to take to make progress as Humanity freeberg remember
00:50:17
we had this discussion about self-driving cars like if getting to Mars and being
00:50:23
multiplanetary kills some crabs I think we should be okay with that in fact if it decimated I mean it's not decimated
00:50:30
but let's just say 100 square miles got decimated by getting to Mars on planet Earth well you'd make that trade-off
00:50:36
right yeah it's a I mean this is the same standard I think I feel around if there's a mouse infestation in my house
00:50:44
I'm not going to let the mice live in my house even though I'm completely ethically against killing
00:50:50
animals killing animals to eat when I have other options I'm against and I think animal testing and medical
00:50:55
applications I have a totally different standard than I think what is standard in the market today so for me it's like
00:51:01
a a pretty sensitive topic because my ethics are don't kill animals unless absolutely necessary and the question is
00:51:06
what is necess what is the definition of necessary and so these sorts of points that you're making about you know if it
00:51:12
gets all humans to Mars that might be a trade-off worth making for some crabs I don't you know it's
00:51:17
like hard oning the analogy here are you saying that elon's the mouse the rocket may have killed the
00:51:25
mouse The Regulators own the house wait what's the who's the mouse and who's the
00:51:28
house the house is the rocket ship clearly the think the mouse in the house right yeah yeah let's pull up this quote
00:51:36
from Brendan car as the FCC commissioner I thought this was amazing this list is
00:51:40
incredible this is the FCC commissioner he said he said the doj FAA FTC nlrb sdny
00:51:48
and an F WS I guess it's fish and wildlife have all taken action the FCC now joins them man that's incredible
00:51:55
yeah it's a little bit nuts look at that Biden quote where I didn't actually know
00:51:59
about the second part I knew about the first part where he says we got to take a look at this guy but then he was asked
00:52:05
how President Biden responded there's a lot of ways a lot you you know there's a
00:52:09
lot of ways there's a lot of ways to get to somebody I can get to you you might be able to get to me I might be able to
00:52:15
get to you and uh you know maybe you watch your back you know you know what else Biden said there's a lot of ways is
00:52:24
when he was talking about the the northstream pipeline and he said that pipeline's not going to move forward and
00:52:31
then they said yeah but the Press said to him yeah but that's that's like a German Russian project like how what's
00:52:37
your involved how you do he said we got ways there a lot of ways we got ways wow
00:52:43
ouch okay so on the Counterpoint obviously Elon has several pretty sprawling businesses he has selfing cars
00:52:50
right and they push right they push the envelope on you know where there's an existing regulatory framework same with
00:52:57
going to Mars right same with transmitting internet services Wireless Communications like you know there is a
00:53:02
regulatory framework for all of these businesses and he's on the bleeding edge and typically beyond the framework to
00:53:07
some degree so I think it's like worth acknowledging at least that there's a a necessity of scrutiny and involvement in
00:53:14
these agencies given that they do have regulatory Authority and and responsibility over these various
00:53:19
businesses and he's well beyond where anyone else is in each of them so I just want to acknowledge that hold on let me
00:53:24
respond to that yeah he's well beyond where other people are in his industry in terms of innovation he's the first to
00:53:30
acknowledge because I've heard him say this many times that he's in highly regulated Industries and they've got you
00:53:36
know massive compliance programs at Tesla and SpaceX and all these different companies what we're judging these
00:53:43
Regulatory Agencies on is not that there's a need to regulate elon's companies within the framework of their
00:53:50
Industries but rather the specific actions that that are being brought remember dojj suing SpaceX for
00:53:59
not hiring enough refugees right Tesla being sued on this Glass House business whatever that is and now those those are
00:54:05
voluntary actions in a FCC canceling a contract yeah three years speak volumes they actually exactly three years before
00:54:14
the they even need to judge that contract whether that contract's been met 100% happened uh this week which I
00:54:20
think is important along this vein is that the IRS is in charge of making sure that you can claim the $7,500 EV tax
00:54:27
credit for cars and a lot of us that have been looking at this issue the way that they break the EV tax credit is in
00:54:34
half and part of it is about where the material is sourced and part of it has to do with the total sum of certain
00:54:42
components of the car and how much of those are made in the US Etc okay and it was presume just based on the trend that
00:54:51
Tesla would lose half the credit keep half the credit and in a bit of a surprising
00:54:56
move they the IRS came out and said the whole thing we're not going to acknowledge anymore so Tesla had to go
00:55:03
and put on the website that the credit ends as of December 31st so I would add the IRS to this to this list as well
00:55:11
that's so crazy it's all got to be investigated I like freeberg suggestion that prove to us that you're not doing
00:55:18
this at this point because it's pretty clear that it is happening and it's good luck luck them to do that just on the um
00:55:27
on that EV subsidy you know one of the perverse things about this is that the administration is putting the thumb on
00:55:34
the scales against Elon in favor of these less Innovative competitors who have worse products so like Elon said if
00:55:43
you want to cancel our contract for starlink to provide this rural broadband that's fine to save taxpayers the money
00:55:50
but by all means don't then give the money to these other services I can't deliver what's the point of that and
00:55:55
same thing on the electric cars I mean the subsid is going to these other car companies that make worse products yeah
00:56:00
totally this is the key point the the fact is all of those people who just had their Starling canceled through the
00:56:06
government I guarantee you they will buy Starling because it's the best product so irony of ironies they're just going
00:56:14
to go spend 60 70 80 bucks a month to put their own starlinks in like everybody else around the world who
00:56:19
lives rurally I have Starling one more thing to add they under pressure from regulator they announced a recall on
00:56:27
Tuesday of 2 million cars to to fix some of the autopilot software yeah but that's an overthe a update so the Press
00:56:33
went crazy about that right no no no what I'm saying is if you read the if you read the article that overthe a
00:56:39
update is specifically because of again how it's written regulatory pressure to change how the software behaves some
00:56:47
tuning in some edge cases my point is that one could guess that there is an attempt here to kind of do the death by
00:56:55
a Thousand Cuts approach right the the drip drip water torture of just like a thing over here a thing over here a
00:57:01
thing over here a thing over here eventually companies can get distracted and misfire and so the question I do think
00:57:10
is like you know does it make us better off if all of these little ticky tacky footfalls
00:57:16
are enforced by the government I think I think we all know what the answer is no
00:57:21
we have an example that Microsoft got so distracted by their cases that the company went sideways for a decade well
00:57:27
but that I mean I think there was a lot of good basis for that particular anti that was an antitrust case and Microsoft
00:57:33
clearly had a monopoly just on the recall thing I did see that story at the top of drudge or whatever last week
00:57:38
whereas it said every Tesla has to be recalled and when I see the word recall yes I think that means you got to bring
00:57:45
it to the dealership and get like some part swapped out but that's not what happened no well what's so interesting
00:57:51
is they refuse in these articles I can show you the New York Times version of it they refused to write that it's
00:57:56
actually an OTA update breaking news I don't know if you guys saw this but a billion five iPhones were just recalled
00:58:02
for the 17.2 update so everybody's gonna have to bring their iPhones in 1.5 billion iPhones Rec call I got to bring
00:58:09
it to the store yeah you got to bring it to the store and then they give you this
00:58:12
new journal app I don't know if you got it in the latest update but Apple made a
00:58:15
journaling app so that you can have more acity yeah that's the recall yeah it's Total Recall all right listen now we
00:58:22
keep the red meat going saxs is cooking with oil Alex Jones the controversial conspiracy commentator of Infowars Fame
00:58:30
is back on Twitter after Elon did a poll he got two million people to respond asking if he should be reinstated 70%
00:58:37
said yes of course Jones encouraged his fans to vote in this poll so I'm not sure how scientific it is for background
00:58:42
Twitter permanently banned Jones in 2018 after accusing him of posting direct threats of violence and hate speech he
00:58:49
had already received bans from Apple Facebook and YouTube he's pretty much the the number one person to be
00:58:55
deplatformed as you know Jones was ordered to pay $1.5 billion to the families of eight Sandy
00:59:01
Hook victims this is across two cases in Texas and Connecticut and here is Jones
00:59:09
in his own words on the Sandy Hook parents Sandy Hook it's got inside job written all over it Sandy Hook is a
00:59:17
synthetic completely fake with actors in my view manufactured I couldn't believe
00:59:23
it at first the new town kids oh they take them put them in our face tell us their names who they were I heard an ad
00:59:32
this morning on the radio Bloomberg paid for locally going I dropped Billy off and watched him go around the corner and
00:59:39
he never came back all because of the guns won't you just turn your guns in for my son why'd you do it to him gun
00:59:47
owners forgive my language but that guy okay there it is folks guy we have a that guy but does that censor him
00:59:56
unfortunately not but I absolutely cannot stand that that is just like heart-wrenching like evil awful spewing
01:00:05
out of his mouth and he still you know should have a right to speak but man that guy I was never a big crier part of
01:00:14
it was just my defense mechanism and I remember Sandy Hook because I had just become a
01:00:22
parent I had I think kids by that point and I was uncontrollably crying when that happened and it was the first
01:00:31
time I realized how you change as a parent and you just develop this empathy and then you realize how
01:00:39
precious kids lives are and I've become more and more of a crier as my kids have grown
01:00:46
older and I really appreciate that what my kids have done for me so when I hear him talk like
01:00:53
that I yes he has a right to say what he wants but he is a complete piece of yeah okay
01:01:01
so let's get into this very difficult question and sax I don't want to force you to defend you know one of those
01:01:08
horrible humans I think we can all agree well my my position is pretty similar to
01:01:11
what the other guys said which is what he said was odious however that doesn't necessarily mean he should be censored
01:01:17
we have standards we have First Amendment standards around this AG with that I agree with that so first of all
01:01:22
let me back up I mean I didn't even really know who Alex was I mean I only knew him because of
01:01:27
the controversy I've never actually listened to a show I'm not really interested in what he has to
01:01:32
say I do think that if you're going to play this clip of his mistake going back many years you should supplement it by
01:01:39
playing a clip of what he says now and what he says now is he's apologized he's admitted he made a mistake he basically
01:01:46
bought into a conspiracy theory by it wasn't just him saying it apparently he had some people on the show who I don't
01:01:53
know if they were reported experts or what but they were making a case that the whole Sandy Hook thing was a hoax
01:02:00
and it was being done to basically you know get people's guns I mean look it's nutty stuff I'm not defending it in any
01:02:07
way but he explained that he bought into that into that theory or hoax or whatever and he thinks it's a terrible
01:02:14
mistake and he's apologized for it and the question is are you going to have a lifetime ban on
01:02:20
somebody for saying things that were wrong and odious when they have now apologized and for me it's not about
01:02:29
Alex Jones it's about censorship remember when this case happened way back in 2018 it was really hard to
01:02:37
defend keeping this guy on the platform in light of what he had said and done because everyone's reacting very
01:02:43
emotionally to it and it was people like Defenders of free speech like Len Greenwald who said that listen if you
01:02:49
take Alex Jones out now if you have a permanent ban it will basically be a slippery slope and it will create a
01:02:56
precedent and other people will get banned and sure enough just two years later Twitter was Banning people like
01:03:03
Jay boria Stanford doctor for saying dissonant things about covid that turned out to be completely correct remember we
01:03:10
authored the great barington declaration talking about how lockdowns wouldn't work and so on and so even within two
01:03:17
years of this decision around Alex Jones the censorship was totally out of control and so I think the people who us
01:03:25
that Alex Jones would become a slippery slope ended up being completely correct to me that's the symbolism of the
01:03:30
restoration of Alex Jones's account it's not endorsing what he did it's not saying that what he said wasn't odious I
01:03:38
mean look again I have zero interest in even listening to the guy but the point is that free speech does require us to
01:03:46
put up with people who are wrong people who are even hateful sometimes and stating misinformation
01:03:54
people who put out misinformation that's what Free Speech requires us to do and if you want a
01:04:01
different standard it's going to become a precedent for a lot of censorship that
01:04:05
you don't like I agree with sax the the only place where I disagree with saxs is
01:04:09
on Twitter not having a right to do this as a private Enterprise I think Twitter
01:04:14
had a decision to make on what kind of editorialization they wanted to do with the content on their platform on their
01:04:20
product and they made a choice I don't think that I think it was the wrong choice personally
01:04:25
and we've talked about this in the past I think you know it's it's great that elon's making a different choice and
01:04:31
Catering to a you know a different audience perhaps with a different product that has more open speech but
01:04:37
that's not you know a government free speech mandate that's a private Enterprise mandate and I do believe in
01:04:44
the right to free speech I think it's a little bit ironic to say that it's inappropriate when someone says
01:04:52
something that is misinformation because it's incorrect or unprovable when we have an entire group of people that
01:05:00
believe in something called religion and much of religion is based on this concept of faith and belief without
01:05:06
necessarily hard proof or evidence and we allow religion religious speech you know in in many forums without saying
01:05:15
hey that's misinformation or hey it's not true or hey it doesn't meet the standards of X or Y or Z's scientific
01:05:21
assessment or understanding and so I think it's just worth acknowledging that this whole concept that someone has to
01:05:27
ultimately be the police of the truth and the police of fact and the police of information is going to lead to a bad
01:05:32
place and I'd rather have more free speech with people saying misinformation and saying awful putrid things than one
01:05:38
where a few people get to decide what everyone gets to hear so as much as I absolutely despise this guy you you may
01:05:43
be right that Twitter as a private company had the the right as our laws currently exist to decide who they were
01:05:50
going to suspend and ban from the site however once that censorship power was created it attracted powerful entities
01:05:59
from our government who wanted to co-opt and use that power that's what we saw in
01:06:02
the Twitter files with the ad FBI agent sending takedown requests that's what happens is when you create the
01:06:08
censorship power people will abuse it it people abuse it but but more to the point it's such a tempting power to use
01:06:19
by people in Authority right it's like the ring of power those tools that Twitter created it's like they released
01:06:26
a pheromone or something that attracted all these powerful shadowy actors from the federal government in the FBI and
01:06:32
all these agencies and so that that is why I think it's just very dangerous for even private companies to create these
01:06:38
censorship regimes is that they can be co-opted and and abused being co-opted and abused is the issue I don't think
01:06:45
that the issue is their choice in what kind of content they want to put out you can go to the Netflix kids version of
01:06:52
Netflix and kids they they control what content is on Netflix and they provide a
01:06:56
different version than what they provide to adults and I think like editorializing the content platform that
01:07:00
you're making available whether it's user generated or paid for or whatever is a totally reasonable like approach to
01:07:07
running a business a Content business the the point you're making is the right one which is the point at which you
01:07:12
allow government agencies to intervene and have control and manipulation over private citizens user generated content
01:07:19
is where I think it crossed the line so I I don't disagree with you on that point may I ask to Qui clarifying
01:07:24
questions here because I'm I'm curious how you would handle this if you were the CEO of X forly known as Twitter
01:07:30
would you have reinstated Alex Jones yes or no and then number two if Alex Jones then as a new
01:07:37
member of the community who's been reinstated and forgiven because he apologized and then he did this again
01:07:43
this exact same thing again with another school shooting with parents would you remove him for the platform I don't know
01:07:50
that these are yes or no questions what I would say is that I've written what I think should be a speech policy for
01:07:56
social media Platforms in a blog post I did several years ago and what I said is
01:08:02
that I would take first amendment case law and operationalize it for social media platforms there are nine
01:08:10
categories of speech that the Supreme Court has said are not protected speech because they're dangerous in some
01:08:17
way so for example incitement to violence is one of them you know harassment is one of them so I would use
01:08:23
this clearly falls under those two well people his fans went and knocked on the doors his fans did his
01:08:30
fans did so as I understand the whole Sandy Hook thing what happened is he said the whole thing was a hoax that
01:08:35
obviously wasn't true he paid a huge price for that his fans then some of his crazy fans went and harassed the parents
01:08:43
which obviously is not right but according to him he didn't and I I don't know that anyone's shown that he did
01:08:49
that I don't think he encouraged that it just happened by got somech fans well of course he does
01:08:57
it's a conspiracy show so knowing it's a conspiracy show knowing that incitement
01:09:01
to violence is one of your criteria if his fans after him saying it's fake then went to the house knocked on the door
01:09:09
and asked the parent to see little suie because you know she's alive would you kick him off the
01:09:15
platform listen the barington Declaration on the barington Declaration was declared to be
01:09:22
a conspiracy show the idea that Co originated in a lab was considered a conspiracy show I don't think you can
01:09:28
prejudge in advance that a show is quote unquote dangerous factually wrong conspiracies as I understand it again I
01:09:38
haven't watched the show but I did watch a clip by Joe Rogan Who provided something of a character reference for
01:09:43
Alex Jones I don't know if Nick can find that and play that it was actually quite
01:09:46
good what Rogan said is look I've known Alex Jones for like 30 years he's had problems with alcohol abuse substance
01:09:54
abuse whatever he's had um mental health issues that he's acknowledged and sometimes he goes off the rails at the
01:10:00
same time he's also been way ahead of the curve on certain things for example he told me about the Epstein Island like
01:10:07
10 years before the story broke I don't know how he figured that out but somehow
01:10:11
he did now that was a conspiracy theory until it was proven true and it probably would have been a
01:10:16
good thing for the public if that story had come out a lot sooner so that it could have been shut down a lot sooner
01:10:22
so I don't think you can just judge an advance that somebody's a conspiracy theorist and basically blackball them
01:10:26
from the internet one other data point I want to bring up is that this is something that Elon mentioned is that he
01:10:34
looked at the Twitter tools the admin tools to see to look at Alex Jones's account and the third strike he received
01:10:42
that that caused him to be banned from the Twitter platform by the former management was he actually insulted a
01:10:49
reporter which was a very borderline case so you know the things that you're saying that he was banned for weren't
01:10:56
even the reason he was banned yeah no that's true I I think yeah so that's why I was framing it to you as you know and
01:11:04
this is the issue that I think it maybe what some people are missing here a mentally ill person like himself if he's
01:11:10
admitted to mental illness and substance abuse when they do this real when they when they go on these TI rides or they
01:11:15
go off their meds or whatever it is or they're just evil and they do this for Ratings to make money it starts to cause
01:11:21
real world harm people start showing up on these people uh doorsteps and so then
01:11:25
are you going to wait 10 years for the courts to do this $ 1.5 billion judgment and then make the decision while real
01:11:32
world harm is occurring and if you own the platform my belief is you have a higher standard obviously believe in
01:11:37
freedom of speech he can make his own website but if you own the platform and the platform enables him to reach a
01:11:42
large number of people and those people are being harmed and parents' doors are being knocked on demanding to see their
01:11:47
children because Alex Jones said that child is still alive and they're trying to take our guns and he knows his fans
01:11:52
are crazy there's responsibility that comes from this and there's responsibility that comes with owning a
01:11:57
platform like this I know elon's going full freedom of speech but I would be very careful about this Steve scalise
01:12:03
the house Republican whip was shot by a crazy Bernie Sanders supporter does that
01:12:07
blame go to Bernie Sanders I think you have to separate there is hold on there there is a legal standard for incitement
01:12:15
right okay there's a legal standard for judging that you're saying that these crazy people were incited but there is
01:12:21
actually a legal way of determining that I don't think that's been proven I would
01:12:25
do a common sense one which is do we see real world happening I would just use common sense do we see real world
01:12:31
happening okay real world is happening we own the platform we need to stop this which is what happened that's a judgment
01:12:38
standard right yeah I would I would make the Judgment if I was the CEO I'd make the judgment and I would make the
01:12:42
Judgment based on you know the courts are going to take years to to adjudicate this and it's my platform I don't want
01:12:48
this happening I would operationalize a Content moderation policy based on first M case law you're
01:12:54
right that you can't always wait for the courts to adjudicate it there's going to
01:12:56
be judgment calls I would have been fine I think with the suspension of Alex Jones in
01:13:02
that context because it does seem pretty egreg just and need to apologize for it
01:13:05
the question is whether there should be Lifetime banss and I'm pretty much I think I'm against lifetime banss I'm
01:13:12
okay with timeouts I'm okay with suspensions for egregious behavior when somebody has apologized
01:13:20
they've I mean had to pay I mean I think he's been bankrupt he's had to pay all these
01:13:25
fines I think he's paid his price to society so to speak and he's admitted he was wrong the question is do you still
01:13:32
have the lifetime ban it seems to me he's acknowledged this mistake if he does something like this again then you
01:13:39
can suspend him maybe you do the ban but I do believe in giving people Second Chances and I'm just sort of viscerally
01:13:46
against lifetime Banning people I don't like the standard of what can be deemed dangerous Speech cuz I think that
01:13:54
as saak said there's a clear way to measure whether someone's inciting violence or inciting harm versus saying
01:14:01
speech that can be deemed dangerous in some contexts and then not be deemed dangerous after the fact covid vaccine
01:14:08
conversations are the perfect example telling people that there's health risks associated with taking a vaccine uh in
01:14:15
the period when everyone was worried about a pandemic killing us all was deemed too dangerous to allow and after
01:14:21
the fact it wasn't dangerous because there were suddenly clear evidence that there may be some costs and benefits
01:14:27
associated with the vaccines and so I really don't like this standard of dangerous speech in fact I think that
01:14:32
the biggest changes that are necessary in society initially start as dangerous speech and then they eventually become
01:14:38
true and then they become a standard and then things change my my repeated calls
01:14:44
for reduction in fiscal spending at the federal level and lack of accountability
01:14:49
in fiscal spending at the federal level by some measure could be deemed dangerous speech and an incitement
01:14:54
against the government but really my point is to call out the importance of this like issue and after the fact it I
01:15:01
may be right I may be wrong and I need to be able to say that I think it's critically important to say those sorts
01:15:07
of things and I think that other people in their own domains will find other things that are critically important to
01:15:11
say and that would be deemed by some standard to be dangerous at the time so as much as I have great disdain for you
01:15:19
know certain people and certain things that they may say I do think that what might be deemed dangerous speech is a
01:15:24
critical element of the the kind of progressivism that's allowed the United States to prosper I think it was
01:15:30
dangerous speech to promulgate the false conspiracy theory that Trump was an agent of Putin I mean that was in the
01:15:37
steel dossier they basically said that Putin had compromat.ru in the white house that was
01:15:54
a private document right that wasn't like a public was absolutely leaked during the campaign you're making my
01:15:59
point exactly it's leaked right so there's like a private document by somebody I but then it was printed by
01:16:04
BuzzFeed and then once it was in the Echo chamber it was endlessly repeated by the mainstream media so the idea that
01:16:10
like only people like Alex Jones promote conspiracy theories the mainstream media
01:16:16
promotes a lot of conspiracy theories and some of those theories if acted upon by crazy people would be just as
01:16:22
dangerous as the things that Alex Jones has said yeah we're in hypothetical end but actually I think you and I are not
01:16:28
too far apart you wanting to take these harms and operationalize them is sort of
01:16:32
what I'm saying and in each of these cases it's a judgment call and this is where I think you know I in in many ways
01:16:39
I'm proud of what Elon is doing and saying like freedom of speech is an absolute thing and that's what the
01:16:43
platform is going to be his right to do it it's his platform and so I'm fine with that I would I would do something
01:16:49
different if it was my platform everybody's different you know everybody can can take their stance I would have
01:16:54
some basic Humanity as my stance and I I would be willing to give up a little freedom of speech in my restaurant in in
01:17:01
my Cafe in order to have it be more delightful for everybody there I wouldn't go as far as Banning people
01:17:06
talking about covid but yeah if somebody was trying to claim that parents have murdered children were liars and actors
01:17:13
that would be fine for me to say yeah no good um and then of course there's Kanye
01:17:17
so you know Elon ban Kanye that was under his realm and and this is what Kanye said and I think this falls into
01:17:23
speech and real world harm I'm a bit sleepy tonight but when I wake up I'm going death death Con 3 on Jewish people
01:17:30
the funny thing is I actually can't be anti-semitic because black people are actually Jew also you guys have toy with
01:17:35
me and tried to blackball anyone whoever opposes your agenda so when you see this
01:17:39
tweet would you have banned him sax or is that ban I might have given him a timeout I think his family wanted him to
01:17:45
get a timeout because he was having an episode I certainly wouldn't give him a lifetime ban give him a year or
01:17:50
something look I don't really know this Jones guy I certainly don't know him in person I don't even listen to him it's
01:17:55
not a show I'm interested in even now I only know conspiracy theory I like knowing the truth I like hearing facts
01:18:04
and I don't believe that factional information like the lab leak Theory should be censored by labeling it a
01:18:12
conspiracy theory yeah for example but what I would say about Alex Jones is there is some Humanity in allowing him a
01:18:20
forum to apologize for what he did and acknowledge his mistake and explain why he thought what he did and why he was
01:18:29
wrong and that's what he did on X and I went on the Twitter spaces and I asked him a follow-up question which he
01:18:34
wouldn't answer I said how have you changed your behavior yeah but honestly Jing he wouldn't answer it you came
01:18:40
bounding in in the last five minutes asking him a bunch of questions about what he did when it had already been
01:18:45
covered at the top of the Pod and I listened to it and he had not answered the question how is your behavior
01:18:50
changed and so he doesn't want to talk to he spent the first half hour Rel litigating Sandy Hook and you weren't
01:18:56
aware of that want go over it again 10 minutes but he he won't answer questions on how he would change his behavior and
01:19:02
so I think that's one of the things I would want to see from him how have you changed your behavior and how you you
01:19:07
know do shows and I don't think he's answered that question anyway we're going to disagree on this one any final
01:19:12
thoughts jamat as we wrap here on this on this issue the Free Speech litmus test is is
01:19:18
very simple it's this exact thing it's when the person that you like says the thing that you find very displeasing
01:19:25
what do you do and I am a free speech absolutist on this I just think it's a very slippery slope and I don't think
01:19:32
we're very capable of making these delineations and so I agree the right solution are
01:19:39
timeouts but lifetime bands I think again go down this path where human judgment gets involved and then it's
01:19:45
about the person in charge and then it becomes a power play and then it eventually always gets
01:19:50
corrupted so I can hold two thoughts in my head one Alex Jones should be able to
01:19:54
say what he thinks and two it was disgusting and he should be ashamed of what he
01:20:00
said yeah you know the band's doubling every time is probably a good precedent as well so I mean we should do it like
01:20:06
we do at our proger game the fines go up yeah phone penalty D phone penalty doubles exponential back
01:20:12
off I mean you're gonna you're gonna put your phone down and play the goddamn game if it gets to 800 or 1,600 because
01:20:18
that stings a little bit so there it is yeah it totally does but maybe that's the right solution Jason like you have a
01:20:23
finding mechanism somehow and it just like it increases and so there's a financial penalty of nothing else as
01:20:28
well as a timeout when you violate these laws at least that's a scalable way to yeah solve the problem in a way that's
01:20:36
hard to corrupt and game but if it goes down to the person to an individual or a
01:20:41
group of people's judgments as we saw with the previous management of Twitter I think it's going to be a very
01:20:47
difficult problem I don't think that those were bad people but I think that they were LED
01:20:50
astray yeah I mean Nick do you have that clip from Rogan cuz when I listen to this clip from Rogan it did have an
01:20:57
impact on what I thought because it theyve friends for like 20 years yeah it does show the human
01:21:03
complexity and again you're judging him based on the worst thing he ever did and
01:21:08
Rogan presents a more balanced Viewpoint about this guy again I have no dog in this hunt I don't really care about Alex
01:21:15
Jones but I'm just saying that if we're going to sit in Judgment of people I think maybe we should have a more
01:21:21
balanced view cuz I mean it does bias the conversation to play the clip of the worst thing he ever
01:21:26
did let let's play Rogan for a second I think it's interesting look at the way people look at Alex Jones now because
01:21:31
Alex Jones has been on my podcast a few times the people that have watched those
01:21:35
podcasts think he's hilarious and they think that he definitely fed up with that whole Sandy Hook thing um but he's
01:21:43
right more than he's wrong and he's not an evil guy he's just a guy who's had some psychotic breaks in his life he's
01:21:51
had some genuine mental health issues that he's addressed he's had some serious bouts of alcoholism some serious
01:21:58
bouts of you know substance abuse and they've contributed to some very poor thinking but if you know the guy if you
01:22:06
get to know him like I have I've known him for more than 20 years and if you know him on podcast you realize like he
01:22:12
is genuinely trying to unearth some things that are genuinely disturbing for most people like this is a guy that was
01:22:21
telling me about Epstein's uh Island decade ago at least yeah I mean this platforming mentally ill people
01:22:33
during an episode is a whole another can of worms I mean I told this to Lex Reedman when he had Kanye on during that
01:22:38
episode I said I think it's a very bad idea to spend two hours with somebody who's having an episode and sure enough
01:22:44
what did he do more anti-semitic Insanity on his podcast and I just told him Lex like leave the guy alone it's
01:22:50
not worth it let him get help look I think I think you have a point there but um you know that that would be an
01:22:56
argument for a temporary suspension not a ban in my opinion yeah all right sax in other news something insane has
01:23:03
happened on the Internet it's never happened before but somebody has apologize for getting something wrong
01:23:10
this is breaking news we're in year 34 of the internet and somebody says they is it my wife is it my wife did she she
01:23:17
she's never gotten anything wrong I've listen I've been there for this whole relationship she has been 100 out of 100
01:23:23
times correct on frustrating it's so frustrating I mean if she makes a mistake we'll know but it hasn't
01:23:29
happened yet actually paradoxically same with my wife she's been right for 22 years no my wife has been wrong four
01:23:35
times and I've gotten three on voice memo I tape them I pull out the phone and I'm like hold on I
01:23:41
need you to say it again yeah so I've gotten three on voiced but it's because it's been only three did those three
01:23:46
have something to do with deciding to marry you or to move in with you and make children and start a life together
01:23:53
it's so frustrating how can one person be so wrong I.E me all the time well I mean at least your self aware everybody
01:24:00
loves self-aware CH Cham it is God a new trend in the world but yes Nim TB publicly admitted we're going to pull it
01:24:09
up here sax here we go he publicly admitted that techno watermelon that's your name sax that was his insult I
01:24:16
don't really understand the insult I never understood it either I think he's saying your head is the size of a
01:24:20
watermelon and that you're involved in technology that's my was my interpretation I don't think you have a
01:24:24
melon head or does it mean like I'm green on the outside and red on the inside or something like somehow I'm
01:24:29
supporting communism or I don't I don't really understand it but that has come up um well listen it's better than mine
01:24:35
I'm a psychotic ignoramus so he you know he hasn't retracted that for some reason
01:24:39
not yet not yet but I we'll have at some point I'm sure he will uh but here it is
01:24:43
folks well he just said I can see that David saaks is correct about the relative strength of the parties in the
01:24:48
Ukraine war and I was wrong all caps Russia is not as weak as it seemed it has staying power this means the
01:24:55
settlement is likely outcome anyway um it's so rare on the internet for anyone to admit they were
01:25:03
wrong and what they usually do is do memory hole it which is why you know I always like to produce receipts I only
01:25:11
do that for the people who strongly denounce me about something and then I end up being right they never con see
01:25:16
it's not just about the fact that I was right it's about the fact that they attacked me personally and they never
01:25:21
come back and apologize or or correct the record and TB did that so kudos to him I mean I admit when I read this I
01:25:29
was like you know like a saor yeah I'm like okay what's the gotcha this can't be
01:25:35
happening wa for it follow twet I thought a trap door was going to open under my feet I thought a cartoon piano
01:25:41
was going to fall on my head I just I thought this can't be it and but no that was it so well there it
01:25:48
is uh Kudos by the way just I mean the reason why I understood what was going to happen in this you know counter
01:26:00
offensive and why the war is not going to go as well as people thought it's not because I purport to be some sort of
01:26:05
Ukraine expert or Foreign Affairs expert I mainly just spent the time to figure out who the real experts were and the
01:26:12
real experts are never the people who the media tells you you actually have to spend the time to look at people's track
01:26:18
records what they said in the past did it come true or not you know it's it's basically a falsifiability standard look
01:26:25
at what they predicted look at what actually happened and you can figure out who the real experts are and that's what
01:26:31
I did in the case of Ukraine it was possible to figure out who are the foreign policy Scholars who got this
01:26:36
right who are the military bloggers who are accurately reporting information and
01:26:40
who are the ones who are basically putting out propaganda if you spend the time to do that on virtually any issue
01:26:45
you can effectively become an expert it's a great Point SX really good point yeah well you have to you have to find
01:26:52
your own process for finding the truth today because I don't think you can trust the journalists out there to do it
01:26:57
def 100% And and by the way as a VC people say well what does the VC think you know in a way like what VCS do is
01:27:04
when you get interested in a topic you kind of go deep you try to assimilate a lot of information you try to figure out
01:27:08
who are the real experts in the space so that those are the people I should listen to and then you develop a take
01:27:13
it's not the worst skill set in the world for doing a pod or um tweeting out hot takes on on Twitter again I'm not
01:27:20
saying I'm an expert I'm just somebody who is independent-minded enough to get to the bottom of an issue without dis
01:27:27
relying on what I'm supposed to believe and I just try to figure out who the real experts are all right producer Nick
01:27:33
are you there you did a tweet about questions that people might want to have to ask the besties here as we wrap up
01:27:38
this episode we'll take two your two favorite questions producer thoughts on the Harvard board standing behind
01:27:43
president gay despite her transgressions okay that's a good question that's that's a good one for Jamal here's what
01:27:48
I'll say I think that the Harvard board was probably in a really difficult position in the following way you know
01:27:56
when you hire somebody and you realize that that person has some faults you have three choices right one
01:28:09
is to fire them two is to be unequivocal in their support and three is to basically
01:28:19
give a milk toast cya kind of a statement to give yourself time the reason why I think that
01:28:29
President gay wasn't fired was probably because the board for whatever reason didn't want to seem like they were cow
01:28:35
to to Bill Amman and all the other people that were asking for her resignation but what they didn't do is
01:28:42
equally important they may not have fired her but what they also didn't do was come out with an unequivocal
01:28:46
statement of support I think it was kind of a little bit wishy-washy and acknowledging her
01:28:52
mistakes which seems to be a setup to allow her to basically make a couple more mistakes so that then they can fire
01:29:00
her and they can all seem like they did the right thing so I suspect that that's
01:29:04
what happens she probably won't be in that job in a year from now or you know she kind of muddles along and in two or
01:29:11
three years she quote unquote retires to spend more time with her family anyone else want to get it on
01:29:16
this sex yeah I mean I think this University presidents debate has been a little bit of a roar shock test and I've
01:29:21
seen people that I generally agree with fall into one of two camps some see it as a
01:29:27
free speech issue other people see it as a kind of woke double standards or Dei issue I think for those who see as a
01:29:34
free speech issue they're emphasizing the motivations of people like Elise stonic
01:29:40
the person who asked the university presidents the question in saying when she said basically the the question was
01:29:46
does your code of conduct allow calls for genocide of juice and their argument is that's a
01:29:53
loaded question because there is not an epidemic on campus of people calling for
01:29:58
genocide of Jews and so this is basically all kind of an invented hysteria and the purpose of it is to
01:30:05
suppress debate about this Israel Hamas war in Gaza and it's designed to expand campus speech codes so that it's harder
01:30:15
for Palestinian supporters to protest in favor of their cause so one way of looking at it my view on that is if it
01:30:26
ends up being the case that campus speech codes get expanded in that way that'd be a bad thing I don't think we
01:30:33
need to restrict speech on campus so I agree with them on that point however there is a different way of looking at
01:30:39
this which is the motivations of the University presidents in answering that question and yes it was a loaded
01:30:45
question but they flubbed the answer and the question is why because as we talked
01:30:49
about last week if they were asked about calls for the murder of any other group
01:30:55
a racial group or trans people something like that Asian again I don't think their answer would have been the same
01:31:01
and I do think that that comes back to the fact that they have a preconceived notion of which groups deserve
01:31:07
protection and which ones don't and that is a double standard and I think anything we can do to get rid of that
01:31:14
poisonous ideology that wants to treat people differently on campus I think is a good thing and so I support what bill
01:31:22
akman is doing on that basis but if Bill akman goes too far and demands restrictions on the ability of students
01:31:28
to protest then I think it would be a bad thing and that's going too far so this would be a great thing to ask him
01:31:34
like what his motivations are that you know if he comes on the Pod the thing that's crazy is that just the crazy
01:31:40
hypocrisy like these are the same people who were firing people or not letting them speak on campus if they had a you
01:31:47
know a microaggression where they didn't they missed gendered somebody or they used a different pronoun or they had a
01:31:54
different feeling about what defines a woman versus a man or you know gender differences whatever their massive
01:32:00
intolerance and the crazy hypocrisy which you're alluding to here Sachs is the thing that I think has broken
01:32:04
everybody's brain like this is bizarre and the DI stuff is a road to nowhere I tweeted today about the absolute uh
01:32:12
grift that was going on in Tech not long ago uh which was call out a company Venture firm whatever it is for their
01:32:19
Dei stats then quietly them after you've done this Brig ading of them and say hey
01:32:25
we can solve your problem hire us as consultants and speakers to come in and fix your Dei and tell you what you've
01:32:31
done wrong and then publicly come out and I saw this happen publicly come out and then tell the same group hey this
01:32:38
person's now an ally rinse and repeat it was a crazy grift and it's all coming out now and there's a yeah that that
01:32:44
bill akman thing j that you retweeted is crazy that story yeah so we could just go down this Rabbit Hole forever but I
01:32:51
think you call it a call Tock I call it a Road to Nowhere or a dead end identity
01:32:56
politics in Dei it's just a dead end when you start judging people based on you know any criteria other than their
01:33:02
character and performance in the world do we know if there was a response by MIT is this one MIT yeah yeah I don't
01:33:11
I don't think yet there has been so anyway we we'll cover that story next week for sure I think what bill is doing
01:33:17
is brave because he is taking on Dei and that is or historically that's been one
01:33:22
of the most dangerous things you can do I mean that is what people get canceled for now I know there there are people
01:33:29
who I am fans of like like Lenn Greenwald who's been very critical of Amman because he thinks that amman's
01:33:35
trying to restrict free speech and prevent again the pro Palestinian cause from protesting or saying it's peace and
01:33:45
I guess Bill can clarify that but I think this issue is less about foreign policy and more about domestic policy
01:33:52
these Dei policies and finally we have someone who's willing to take it on and challenge it challenge it at an
01:33:58
ideological level and then challenge it at like a just Griff level yeah shout out to Brian Armstrong he got this right
01:34:05
and and he went right up the hill and took the arrows for it and I think we've turned a corner I if you the tweet I did
01:34:11
today I would not have done two years ago because I just didn't want to you know risk my firm or the companies I
01:34:17
work with you know to kind of expose that grift because could it could blow back on people so but now I feel totally
01:34:24
comfortable doing it so Uber's at 70 well that Al say Uber Uber is 76 puts me in I don't care mode that's for sure
01:34:33
he's got Fu money now amman's got a lot of Firepower you know that Bond call was
01:34:37
totally right you know the 10 years now sub 4% I will say yeah I will say that does your your bank account does give
01:34:44
you the ability to okay final question please we we must wrap we must have a final question and please throw it to
01:34:50
Friedberg first I got freedberg involved early on offense today it's a great show from mom
01:34:56
cooks fast and slow on X uh for Friedberg I guess what is the correct way to hire kids out of school now that
01:35:02
an elite University degree tells you very little about the applicant and will you follow this path in your own
01:35:07
companies oh I have a great answer for that Tim go ahead no please let free you gotta go to the schools with Co-op why
01:35:16
because it allows you to evaluate these kids in C2 on a real-time basis without an obligation to hire you can find the
01:35:23
ones that can really do the work have the energy Co programs please it's for people don't know I went to a co-op
01:35:29
School University of waterl in Canada the way that it works there not not everywhere but there at least is you go
01:35:37
to school for the first eight months and then you never get a break you're either
01:35:41
in working for four months or you're in school for four months and you go back and forth until you graduate so instead
01:35:47
of graduating in four years you graduate in five but you graduate with with basically two full years of work
01:35:54
experience and depending on the employers that you work at you typically get two to three job offers from those
01:36:02
folks if you do a good job when I was helping to build Facebook we went there we had never hired an intern
01:36:10
before and we started to hire people and I think now it happened in Microsoft it happened
01:36:15
to Google I think it's happened to Facebook if you look at the number of kids that work at those schools now from
01:36:21
Co-op Schools they're higher than any other school there's a bunch of schools in the United States that have
01:36:27
co-op but I would go and find those schools and hire those kids freeberg any thoughts you're now running a company
01:36:35
you're back in the saddle how are you going to hire people and tell everybody the name of
01:36:40
the company again uh it's called ohal ohal not M ohal and uh you're Mahalo was taken who owns that domain name now I
01:36:49
still have it yeah if somebody wants to I have Mahalo and I have CA happy to sell it to somebody if they want it but
01:36:57
tell us how what's your hiring criteria and how do you think about this now like
01:37:00
to start an Enterprise software business called kakua it means to help or to guide in
01:37:06
Hawaiian so probably the third or fourth most important word yeah go ahead freeberg please I have criteria around
01:37:12
raw horsepower skills or experience and then motivation and I have systems for how we try and assess those and then
01:37:20
matching our principles it's kind of the fourth bucket of things horsepower you can test skills is based
01:37:27
on experience and fits the role and the need but motivation is one that there's a lot of question marks
01:37:33
around does this person have they demonstrated that they've had a not just a desire but an action that they've
01:37:41
taken that has pushed them beyond the limits of the systems that they've operated in and that's what I would
01:37:47
typically look for regardless of the the schooling background the educ a background is is some demonstration of
01:37:53
that because that's necessary in in business building so those that's that's my framework for hirings we call it you
01:37:59
know smarts or horsepower skills motivation and then principles and we score each one of those and then try and
01:38:04
come up with hiring you do that with the CEO candidates I got that email from you
01:38:09
and I was very intrigued so I like that all right everybody this has been another amazing episode of the all in
01:38:15
podcast for the king of beep and the dictator and the Rainman himself I'm your boy J Cal we'll see you next time
01:38:24
bye love you guys byebye let your winners ride Rainman David and instead we open source it to
01:38:36
the fans and they've just gone crazy with it love you queen [Music] of Besties are that's my dog your driveway
01:38:52
ta man oh man myit meet me we should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy cuz they're all this useless
01:39:01
it's like this like sexual tension that they just need to release somehow we need to get merch
01:39:15
[Music] our I'm All [Music] In