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all right everybody welcome back to the all in podcast we're very excited today to do our third Deep dive long-form
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discussion with presidential candidates for the 2024 election started with RFK and he got a huge boost in the ratings
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after it was on the Pod we had Vivek and now Governor Chris Christie is with us Governor thanks for coming my pleasure
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thanks for having me guys all right so it's a little bit different here than I think some of the other news hits that
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you do this is not short form it's long form we like to you know have a thoughtful discussion
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with the candidates not with talking points and I know that you're a straight shooter so I think you'll fit right in
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here with the other boys I think they're very unique amongst candidates that you've actually brought up
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the deficit as we know uh just two facts here and then I'll hand it over to Freeburg for his question
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last two administrations have run up the deficit massively here's a chart of our debt Trump added almost 8
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trillion Biden's added four trillion and this is obviously an unpopular issue to bring up as you've mentioned bringing
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this up is unpopular doesn't get you votes necessary to say we have to cut spending
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and Freeburg and I are very much I'll speak for myself this is my number one issue in terms of picking a
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candidate freeberg I think you said it's your number one issue so Freiburg I'll hand it over to you in terms of a
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question for Governor Christie yeah Governor Christie nice to see you you and I staying on a karaoke stage
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together in Idaho a few years ago uh but it's uh I do remember that yeah is that
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a Sly way of saying Idaho I have to put that two and two together there everyone
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nice Freebird it was a small bar in Idaho oh it was a lot more in Idaho small part in Idaho small establishment
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classes with a few few folks who happen to be in a bar together at the B conference
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[Music] Rain Man Davidson we open source it to the fans [Music] we watched the Republican primary debate
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a few weeks ago and I think what struck me at least was how little focus and attention is given on the fiscal
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situation the US government deficit in excess of two trillion dollars this year debt to GDP in excess
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of 130 percent 30 plus percent of U.S debt is coming to you in the next year which means it's going to get refinanced
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at the higher rates of probably five and a half percent plus and then when you look at the the demands on Social
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Security Medicare forecasts are that both of those systems necessarily go bankrupt unless there's
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some Extraordinary Measures taken and that seems to be a very kind of Hot Topic Golden Goose that can't be touched
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or debated all of this seems to be largely ignored and so much of a conversation is around
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social issues in the United States military issues War Etc when fundamentally there's no gas in the tank
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I guess the point of view I'd love to hear from you is how do you think about that does that matter to you right now
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or do we think that this is a can that we kick down the road and will solve this problem later we'll grow our way
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out of it if we cut some spending it'll fix itself it seems so core to me that the future of the United States is going
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to be dependent on how we're going to manage this fiscal emergency that we're facing
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well look uh David it's core to me too and I'm you know if you've seen any of the excerpts from any of the Town Hall
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meetings I've done so far um you know I've been talking about both the issues you just raised uh it first
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off I think on the on the deficit and debt side I learned about this after becoming a
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prosecutor and having to come to New Jersey and inherit two problems immediately we have a two billion dollar
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short-term deficit for the last five months of the fiscal year that I inherited and then we had a 11 billion dollar
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deficit on a 29 billion dollar budget for the fiscal year starting July 1 of 2010
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and I had to deal with both those things and as you know unlike the chart that was just shown you don't get to run it
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up you you have to square it um and so you know I learned how hard it is and how ugly it's going to be for
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your popularity to do these things so on the on the first piece on the two billion we sat down I refused to raise
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taxes and we sat down and we eliminated 683 individual programs completely and then swept every Surplus
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from a school board in the state and the way we did that was we reduced their state aid by the amount they have in
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Surplus to get the 2 billion in balance and then extended that into the next budget cycle
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kept all those cuts in place which did some structural uh you know refiguring of the deficit
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um and then made additional Cuts after that you know I gotten elected with um 48 and a half percent of the vote and
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after I did that my approval ratings went down below 40. uh in my first six months but what I
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knew was it was absolutely necessary because in our state we were already over taxed and the idea of raising taxes
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again was not an option that was to me viable so when you learn and you go through that
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process and then you look at what we're dealing with federally I think you realize three things right
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off the bat one it is an imperative that we need to reduce spending what it's doing to inflation and the
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long-term ability of the country to grow it makes it absolutely necessary to to me kicking the can down the road is
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not an option because the problem is only going to get worse and and it's going to begin to impact our ability to
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be able to do some of the core things that government is supposed to do and then third that you've got to be
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willing to sacrifice popularity for results and you know I'm not going to sit here
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and say it'll be fun to do it won't be but I went through it once already on a smaller scale and quite frankly you have
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a much longer Runway to do it at the federal level than I did at the state level and I had you know hard deadlines
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of you know June 30 2010 and July 1 2010 to accomplish both on the entitlement side I think I'm the
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only person who's been talking about this and saying out loud we've got a consider raising retirement age and
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we've got to consider means testing and eligibility for Social Security and you know those also you know I
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remember watching Biden's uh state union address and to me the most disgusting part of it was when he said can we all
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agree we're not going to touch Social Security and both sides stood up and cheered yeah I agree that was the that
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was the the worst moment for me as well liars and hypocrites like they all know it's going broke in 11 years and that's
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an automatic 24 benefit cut on the Social Security side an automatic 25 Medicare benefit cut on that side so
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you're not going to be have to you're not going to be able to let that happen um and so you got to deal with those
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issues and I think you can deal with them um through both um eligibility issues uh regarding means
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testing and you could deal with it um by also dealing with retirement age retirement age I would do it over the
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longer term not for people in their 50s and 60s currently but for people in their uh 40s and below and let me just
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say one follow-up because to your point I think the recent polling showed something like 83 plus of Americans
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support the benefit they get from these two programs Social Security and Medicare that it should not be touched
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that that is the popular opinion that is what the voters are saying do you not think that you put yourself
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at risk in your campaign by making these statements and how do you get elected and instigate change I put myself at
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risk by running yeah let alone put myself at risk I I just think you have to be honest with people it's 11 years
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it's not 20 years it's 11 now and and it means that if the next president doesn't
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deal with it then it is going to be an absolute crisis mode when it has to be dealt with
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we'll be inside three years and at that point the options will be even fewer so yeah of course it's yeah and I know
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someone will run a commercial by the way is that the part is that the behind closed door conversation is that what's
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going on is the folks that you know that you talk with everyone behind the closed
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door when they're not in front of the camera are saying we are going to have to deal with this in the next
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Presidential Administration yeah yeah but but the but they all say I can't believe you're saying it out loud right
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but you know to me we are in such a bad place in politics in this country if we don't start telling the people the truth
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about the problems we have we're never going to have an opportunity to solve them and that that's that's risky but my
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entire candidacy is risky so you know you might as well just go for it and tell people what you really think and I
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do think there are a number of people out there who are thinking people I think most people who answer that 83
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percent number um you know David is are people who um don't even know that we're 11 years
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away from insolvency because nobody talks about that part um and and if you don't talk about that
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part why would any of them watch Social Security touched but I'm finding in my town hall meetings when I tell people
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it's 11 years from insolvency how would you deal with a 25 cut 24 cut in your social security benefit
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people older folks in particular look horrified and so you know I think it's an educational process and I've always
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tried to treat politics at least in part that way that you know uh you know something I say New Jersey all the time
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when press would ask me about a poll that didn't like a position I was taking on an issue I'd say you know a Leader's
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job is not to follow polls is to change them and and my job is to change them and to
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persuade and convince through facts and argument that this is the right way to go and sometimes you'll win and
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sometimes you won't but if you don't tackle the problems what the hell are you doing there
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um you know the housing behind you is nice but um you know frankly it's not worth it to
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me if I'm gonna go there and just be another um one to kick this can down the road as
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you know um Obama Trump and Biden have all done Bush tried to do something about it and
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the Congress rejected it but Obama you know Trump and Biden have done nothing what are your top two areas where you
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would cut in order to save entitlements what are the other areas where you would go to
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find savings well look I think I think we we have to look at Social spending in general
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um that's really drastically increased post covet and those increases have not been taken back so I think you have to
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look at all the programs that were ramped up during covid and say okay um what's it going to be to bring it
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back to pre-covered spending to start and then after you do that a further evaluation of of those programs to see
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if they're effective and I think that would get you a good part of the way there given how much spending increased
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during coven um I think secondly um we need to look at the way we fund education in this country as well
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um and whether or not when we're spending 800 billion um what do we do with the 80 billion the
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federal government spends another place an interesting place to look small in comparison to a two trillion
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dollar debt I understand but um that's another place I would look and the only place I really wouldn't
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look is on the military side at this point because I think you've got to increase efficiency and effectiveness at
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the Pentagon but on the other hand I I don't think um that this is the time to be cutting
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back there when our Navy and Air Force are both in the conditions they're in it's a good segue with the military
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obviously one of the major uh differences in thinking on this pod and you know a big debate inside the
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Republican party is around should we defend Ukraine and then eventually will we defend
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you know Taiwan and so maybe I'll hand it off to David I'm stunned that this is coming up on your pod yeah uh it's it's
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it's a point of a contention uh I think I won't speak for you heard a time before Governor yes sir as as does my my
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oldest son listen to it so in times when I miss my son Andrew is and and he wanted to give me a full briefing before
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I was going to go on the box today and his evaluation of all of you um I told him I was going to refrain
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from that because I didn't want to bring his biases into the interview correct uh
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can you at least tell us what his evaluations were well after afterwards I will absolutely absolutely well okay by
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the way our path to presidential candidates is through the Suns it seems it's kind of a comment it's actually RFK
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Sons uh very bad into the Pod David of course is a pacifist he's a long time GOP member but doesn't believe we should
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be fighting never-ending Wars let me go back yeah let me level set here on foreign policy
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first before we get into Ukraine I want to go back to the bush era forever Wars the Iraq War one of the reasons why
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Trump I think really took off in 2016 is he was the first Republican to really come out and say that the Iraq War and
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all these Middle Eastern forever Wars we got into was a big mistake and even though he was even though he was for it
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when we did it okay well fair enough but he said on the campaign Trail and homies
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finish the question in 2016 he said that bush lied us into the war and he said no
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more bushes putting aside Trump for a second we can get to Trump what is your view on it do you
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fundamentally agree with that that we relied into the Iraq War do you do defend it
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no I think that I think that most people would admit that we were misled I wouldn't use the word lied
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um I would say misled into the Iraq War because of the wmd issue I mean I supported the Iraq War because of wmd
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and I thought if Saddam Hussein had wmd that that was something that we had to deal with in the context of the post-9
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11 World um when it turns out that he didn't have wmd I don't think there would have been
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many people who would have been supportive of the Iraq War um absent WMT so I thought Trump's statements in 2016
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were typical for him um he changed his opinion and instead of giving a rational reason for it he gave
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a sophomoric one and so I don't give him a whole lot of credit for that but well
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you did at the time in a sense I mean when bush bush said sorry Trump said that bush ledis and the Iraq War at the
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South Carolina debate that was on February 13th you endorsed him on February 26th yeah so what's that mean
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well I mean if you thought his answer was sophomoric why'd you endorse him two weeks later well I endorsed him because
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I was convinced he was going to be the Republican nominee for president and I didn't want Hillary Clinton to be the
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president and so having been in that race competed with him after he won South Carolina convinced he was going to
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be the nominee and having at that time had a 15-year relationship with him my view was I could go in there and try to
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make him a better candidate and if he won a better president and that's why endorsement absolutely nothing to do
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with his sophomore cancer on that I didn't like his answer um on the wall either saying Mexico is
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going to pay for it I thought that was sophomoric as well but you know what in American politics
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you don't get to often vote for the candidate you want to vote for um you get to vote for the ones who are
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left and if if I had my first choice in 16 it would have been me but that didn't work
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out so I defaulted into Trump because I thought he was a better choice than Hillary Clinton and by the way still do
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think he was a better choice than Hillary Clinton okay but you probably agree with that right sex
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you thought Trump would be a better choice than Hillary Clinton I mean honestly back in 2016 I wasn't sure what
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to make at Trump because he was such a you know Outsider and sort of a wrecking ball I agree with him about the Iraq War
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but I can accept the governor's answer that we were misled on that war and and if we had known the truth about it we
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never would have gotten into it so I think we can all agree on that yep I want to get to Ukraine but just just
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quickly 2012 do you regret not running in 2012 there's a lot of a lot of commentators who say that you kind of
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were the Trump before Trump you had this combative style this kind of take no prisoner sort of
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attitude and you kind of had a moment in 2012 where it looked like maybe you could have been the front runner of the
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candidate I guess why didn't you go for it in 2012 and I mean do you regret that at all I
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don't regret it and I wasn't ready to be president and that's why I didn't run I know it seems quaint now after Barack
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Obama and Donald Trump have been president but you know back in 2012 I really felt like it was necessary to
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feel in your heart and your mind you were ready when people started talking about me
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running for president I hadn't even been governor for a year and before that I've been a prosecutor
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and in my heart I just David you know it just didn't feel like um I was ready to be president and if I
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don't feel something in here I'm not going to be very effective at making the argument politically
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nor am I gonna be able to convince people to give me their money which you need to do as well and so no I don't
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regret it and by the way you know all those commentators who say that never ran for a goddamn thing in their lives
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and you know they all can think oh you would have won you would have beaten Romney and you would have beaten Obama
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maybe I would have maybe I wouldn't have but that's kind of like the dog catching
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the garbage truck if you don't think you're ready and you catch it the worst moment
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wouldn't have been losing that election the worst moment might have been winning
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it and getting into the Oval Office for the first time and saying oh my God am I really ready to do this so
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I don't have any regrets I really don't and and um everybody who usually you know commentates in that way
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are people who have never put their name on a ballot for anything and until you do that you don't know
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what it feels like and what it means to have to offer yourself up to people um for anything let alone for president
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yeah okay fair enough it's going chronologically here 2014 Biden is now Obama's vice president he
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requests the Ukraine portfolio to run it for Obama there's a famous phone call that gets leaked where our deputy
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secretary of state Victoria Newland is on tape picking the new government of Ukraine which takes effect a few weeks
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later after the violent overthrow of the democratically elected Ukrainian government the yanukovich government
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three months after that Hunter Biden is appointed to the board of barisma do you believe that that appointment was
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made for any other reason than Joe Biden was the de facto ruler of Ukraine I I don't know about him being the de
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facto ruler of Ukraine I mean he was the one I don't think Joe Biden is a fact a
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ruler of anything but let me clarify what I mean by that on the on the victory on the Victoria Newland phone
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call she says she needs to get approval from Biden and Jake Sullivan's National Security advisor for this new Ukrainian
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government that she's picking so she basically is saying that Biden is the boss he's going to sign off on this
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they apparently get the approval from Biden and that government does go into effect after what appears to be a U.S
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backed coup so Biden clearly has enormous influence over that country now okay or Jack Sullivan so look it's too glimp
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to say he's the ruler of the country so I don't mean that I just mean he's the ultimate Authority it seems like in
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approving or picking this new government three months after he does that Hunter binds appointed to the Border Barista so
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my point to you is what reason could there be for Hunter Biden's appointment other than Joe Biden's influence over
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that country none there you have it what you want me to say so a year later so 2015. I don't know
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why sax became a venture capital if he should have been a prosecutor absolutely it's just incredible I'm overwhelmed at
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the moment as a former prosecutor I can see you sweating oh my God you're on the
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roofs well no I'm just I'm trying to be a great presentation flip to page 13. yeah come on no no I want to get I want
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to get I want to get this is a four hour podcast we're gonna go day by day over the last
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decade 14 years old on the Middle School playground and you push that kid Bobby what were you thinking no I'm actually
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establishing common ground with the governor before I get into areas who might disagree okay okay here we go
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excellent okay so 2015 you have this prosecutor named shokun this Ukrainian prosecutor who is
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investigating barisma Joe Biden according to his own acknowledgment on a videotape to I think he was speaking to
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the Council of Foreign Relations says that he gets choken fired and then magically the investigation into Barista
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stops do you think that was in furtherance of stopping corruption in Ukraine or was
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that an effort by Joe Biden to protect himself or his son from this investigation I think we're gonna find
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out as um continued congressional oversight occurs and the special counsel I hope
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investigation broadens so I'm not ready to say I know that for sure but I'll tell you this much there's
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enough smoke there that we got to see where the fire is um and and I'd also say about Biden I
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would never discount not as a substitute motivation but perhaps it's an additional one
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the fact that he likes to pretend he's in charge of things um but instead his staff is really in
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charge and that's how you get trained in the United States Senate your staff really wants everything
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um at least with many of the Senators and that's why it's such a bad um training ground for the presidency in
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my view but I I digress myself um I'd say it is a likely motivation it may not be the only one and it's
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something I'm certainly intrigued to find out about um as oversight moves forward and I hope
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the special counsel's investigation broadens into the specifics of then Vice President Biden's involvement with his
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son's business dealings let's talk about that for a second there is I guess the most recent Revelation is that Joe Biden
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was communicating with his son under under a pseudonym or burner account was it Robert Peters yeah in your experience
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as a prosecutor is there any legitimate reason why somebody would want to use a pseudonym for communicating with their
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son um look burner accounts always raise my eyebrows um as a former prosecutor but what I
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will say is that I I would understand someone in public life if they're communicating with
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family wanting to do that in a way where it wouldn't be detected by folks who are
00:24:27
prying in one way or the other whether that might be media but more particularly hackers and other folks who
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are able to do things that I really don't have much understanding of except to be fearful of them
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um so I don't want to say that as a de facto proof Point David but again going back to my seven years as a U.S attorney
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um when I saw someone having a burner phone or other types of burner accounts definitely made me say let's take a look
00:24:56
a little more closely at that and see what we can find yeah so at a minimum at a minimum it's suspicious for sure and
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deserves inquiry yeah especially after buying City had no involvement with his son's business
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dealing so we found out from Devin Archer sworn testimony who is Hunter bind's partner that by and participated
00:25:13
in 20 phone calls with clients to be the brand so too far down the the Biden uh and Trump well which okay give us tons
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of I think material maybe we can get okay so you could Ukraine which a Ukraine war and and you know who do you
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think's ultimately responsible for the invasion of Ukraine do you think the United States obviously the governor has
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said he supports Ukraine anymore yeah so maybe just in terms of governor do you think the United States
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is responsible for the invasion of Ukraine because we didn't do enough in terms of taking NATO off the table like
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some people think or do you think Putin is responsible for invading Ukraine because he invaded Ukraine I
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don't want to lead the witness you already did but the the the um my answer is that Putin is
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responsible now shocking I do think though that United States inaction um and and bad signal sending to Putin
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going all the way back to George W bush who said I looked into his eyes and saw his soul
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um then to Barack Obama who was you know completely uninterested um in anything and and when Putin made
00:26:36
moves on Ukraine under the under the Obama Administration he did nothing um to Donald Trump who sought as an
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opportunity to extort Vladimir zielinski um to get dirt on Joe Biden um in return for military aid to Joe
00:26:52
Biden who I think has been a handwringer on this issue and when he said well maybe a small Invasion wouldn't be so
00:27:00
bad um you know it reminds me of you know something I said to folks um when I was
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U.S attorney everybody's definition of the word small is different um and you can't assume what they mean
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is the same thing you mean so I do think there were American actions and inactions which contributed to sending
00:27:18
signals to Putin that maybe we wouldn't care if he did it um but um that's a small sliver in my view of
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the responsibility The Lion's Share the responsibility is in my view on Putin fair enough would you admit Ukraine into
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NATO well I think that in the situation we're in now David um they're gonna be it's almost a de
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facto point at this point I I don't I think that given that we permitted Russia to do what they did
00:27:49
um given that we're that that they have now executed what they've executed in terms of their aggression against
00:27:55
Ukraine and the NATO support um from a military hardware and other perspective intelligence perspective for
00:28:03
Ukraine I think it is now a foregone conclusion that Ukraine will be will be admitted to Nato and frankly it's got to
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be now I think one of the penalties and one of the prices that Putin pays for his aggression
00:28:16
but when would you do that I mean so Jen stoltenberg at the Vilnius Summit made it explicit that Ukraine's future is in
00:28:23
NATO but it could not happen unless and until they win this war would you admit them sooner than that no
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okay no I wouldn't because that would lead to war three obviously that's what I'm attempting to avoid yeah okay fair
00:28:38
enough would you have been willing to take NATO expansion off the table in 2021 in order to avoid a war
00:28:46
no I think that was too late if you were going to take NATO expansion off of the off of the table if you were
00:28:53
going to do it it would have been done much earlier because if you did it then that would essentially be giving in to
00:28:59
Putin's threat um and I think that would have sent an even worse signal than some of the
00:29:05
signals that I that I mentioned before so no I wouldn't have been willing to do it in 21 in order to avoid it because
00:29:12
quite frankly I don't believe that it would have avoided it it just would have forestalled it do you believe that we
00:29:17
made the correct decision I mean I know I'm going way back here but in 2008 at the Bucharest Summit we declared Our
00:29:22
intention to bring Ukraine and Georgia for that matter into NATO but we didn't have a
00:29:27
plan to do it do you believe that was a mistake I think it was a mistake not to if
00:29:32
you're gonna do it you should have a plan that lays out exactly how and when and why
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and I think just um expressing aspirational goals in that regard is dangerous in foreign policy in
00:29:46
that regard and so I think the mistake was made not necessarily by ever having Ukraine and NATO but by doing it the way
00:29:54
it was done again um was it on in my view an unnecessary or at least a not well thought out
00:30:01
provocation is there anything about Joe Biden's policy in Ukraine that you would change
00:30:07
yeah it would have been much more aggressive in providing military hardware much sooner
00:30:13
um than what he did and I think he's been he's been the ham ringer on it every step has had has been preceded by
00:30:22
Freddie and burrowing frat furrowing brows and and and uh hand ringing and I think if you're going to
00:30:32
be in this you have to give them the tools they need to win um when I met with zielinski a month ago
00:30:40
he made it very clear to me he had no interest in American or Allied troops in Ukraine now or ever
00:30:48
he felt this was Ukraine's war to win or lose but that they needed the uh the military hardware necessary to to
00:30:57
compete in this war against Russia and that you know my view of what their biggest
00:31:04
concerns were which I the ones that I agree with are the pace and amount of armaments that have been given not only
00:31:11
by the us but by the rest of the NATO allies as well I mean for a lot of us let me just ask a quick couple of quick
00:31:18
follow-ups here and then we can move on I mean for a lot of us Biden has not been half-hearted about this he saw it
00:31:23
113 billion dollar appropriation that seems like a ton of money that could have been spent domestically what little
00:31:28
hand ringing there was was on the giving of f-16s and Abrams tanks and the reason
00:31:35
for that Biden said was that it could lead to War III I mean are you not concerned about those
00:31:41
kinds of escalations I mean isn't that a good thing to be concerned about not dismissive about it's always It's always
00:31:47
important to be concerned about it but you have to be thoughtful about it and look at what the what the alternatives
00:31:52
are and to me the alternative of allowing the the combination of China and Russia
00:31:59
um to to Route Ukraine uh is something that's not in the U.S vital interests and will lead to other problems as well
00:32:09
with China going forward and so um these are none of these are easy decisions Dave
00:32:16
but what they are are the ones that you want someone who is thoughtful and has some experience making them as president
00:32:24
and I don't think Biden checks either of those boxes sufficiently and I think his
00:32:29
contact has shown that and by the way the same applies to Trump what do you think the resolution is here
00:32:36
and if in I don't know 16 months you're president or when your president uh how would you deal with this if the war
00:32:43
still raging here well I think it depends on what disposition the war is in at that
00:32:49
point yeah Jason I think um you have to evaluate how successful has Ukraine been in pushing back they've
00:32:57
made some success in the past couple of weeks in terms of breaking through some of the Soviet initial defensive lines I
00:33:04
think we have to see exactly how successful they've been um but what I would say is that there's
00:33:11
there's no question that this isn't this is a conflict that we need to support and send a clear message
00:33:20
messages that have not been as I said earlier since it all clearly to Putin that you know this is a guy who has
00:33:26
openly discussed the reassembling of the Soviet Union um and I have no no Illusions about the
00:33:35
fact that this former kg beer thinks that the Soviet Union were the good old days
00:33:41
and if he thought he'd get away with assembling as much of it as he possibly could he would
00:33:47
um and I think that we have to send a very clear message on that to him and a very clear message on that to
00:33:53
China regarding authoritarian expansionism and this is where I think the the Trump
00:33:59
um DeSantis ramaswamy foreign policies are so hopelessly um ill-informed and naive the idea that
00:34:09
we're going to go to Putin who yesterday was sitting with Kim Jong-un and persuaded the better places to be
00:34:16
with us go away from your communist Brothers in China and North Korea and come with us because it'll be a much
00:34:24
better deal for you and that Donald Trump's going to do that in 24 hours or if a fake ramaswami is going to do it by
00:34:31
virtue of his winning personality I mean to me he looks like the guy you wanted to stuff in the locker in the 11th grade
00:34:37
but um I don't think that's the guy who's gonna put straight Vladimir Putin to leave the Communist Chinese and to um
00:34:45
you know come to uh come to uh the America's side but Governor you have to admit the war is not going well for the
00:34:51
ukrainians I mean this counter-offensive here's what we are promised remember just uh several months ago before the
00:34:57
counteroffensive you have people like Petraeus and Ben Hodges saying that the counter-offensive would be like a blitz
00:35:03
we would they would rapidly penetrate the sir vegan lines they would march across the country to the Sea of azov
00:35:09
they cut off the land bridge to Crimea all this would happen within weeks and it would be a significant Ukrainian
00:35:15
Victory it has been almost a total failure the ukrainians have taken even the Washington Post and Politico
00:35:22
Publications like that have said their losses have been staggering the battlefield reports have been sobering
00:35:27
these are our top blob Publications saying this so we have been unsuccessful moreover you say we should give them
00:35:34
more weapons but we've run out we've run out of the key type of ammunition in this war which is artillery shells
00:35:40
that's why we're giving them cluster bombs we got the the cupboard is bear so I'm just wondering
00:35:46
how exactly would you turn this around given that the ukrainians are losing this war very badly well first off
00:35:54
there was a lot in there all right let's go back to the predictions from Petraeus
00:35:58
and others you can hear me making those predictions because I think anybody who was briefed on the on the
00:36:04
deficiency of armaments for Ukraine would not have said something like that unless it was wishful thinking
00:36:13
secondly um I I understand the reports regarding our own deficiencies in providing them with with
00:36:22
more armaments we have I think work to do with the rest of our allies in nato in terms of they're providing more more
00:36:32
of the artillery and other armaments that are needed by the Ukraine the Indians are even less than we do I mean
00:36:38
well but but look this is going to have to be something that we're going to have
00:36:42
to to to Cobble together together to get it done and it also shows what I was saying earlier in regards to the budget
00:36:50
question that you know this massive military built up that Donald Trump says he did was baloney I think you have an
00:36:57
interesting point there actually which is to me one of the biggest surprises this war is that we spend
00:37:02
877 billion on the Pentagon and that we could run out of ammo right so I mean without blaming Trump per se or Biden I
00:37:11
just think we're getting ripped off I mean the military-industrial complex is royally screwing the American taxpayer
00:37:16
how can we spend 877 billion dollars and not have ammo can you explain that to me
00:37:21
or have food insecurity for a lot of members of the military not have paid leave not have
00:37:28
Health Care the idea that you don't want to look at that budget is an enormous that's what I said that is what you said
00:37:35
no it is not what did you say I said no no I did not say that what I said was that the Pentagon has to be made more
00:37:44
efficient and more effective with what it spends but not reduce what it spends and that
00:37:50
goes right to the point that David just made which is you have to get answers as
00:37:55
president to the questions of what are you spending 877 billion dollars on if we're running out of ammo and there's
00:38:03
food insecurity and there's not paid leave right so what I what I was saying through the answer I gave you on the
00:38:10
budget was I did not see that as a place to cut but I did say very clearly that it's a place where we have to make
00:38:20
the Pentagon more efficient and effective and we need a secretary of defense and a president who want to and
00:38:27
demands answers to those questions first are you not sympathetic to the idea that
00:38:31
efficiency sometimes means spending less to get the same or more if that's the conclusion we come to after examining it
00:38:38
then I'm very um sympathetic to that so then you are opening to cutting the defense budget I'm open it is a
00:38:44
secondary issue the primary issue on defense no I understand I just want a clear answer so I understand where
00:38:51
you're coming from you want to look at the defense budget you have an intuition that there's potentially extreme levels
00:38:58
of waste right and so if you find that waste will you just cut it or no you just reallocate it reallocate why for
00:39:06
the for the very reasons that David's just talking about if we're running out of ammo if our submarine capacity is not
00:39:13
where it should be which I believe it is not if our ship capacity is not where I
00:39:18
believe I believe it should be and it is not in my view and if our modernization
00:39:22
of our of our air force is not where it should be which I believe it is not then
00:39:28
you reallocate that money okay so there's a principle in capitalism called zero-based budgeting which I I actually
00:39:34
like what you're saying but just to kind of double click on what that is zero-based budgeting starts with the
00:39:39
principle that you just started which is what are our priorities what do we want
00:39:43
to accomplish and then you go and systematically build up where the budget actually starts at zero dollars hey
00:39:48
Pentagon you get zero not eight hundred billion what do we need to accomplish oh
00:39:52
we need bullets okay we need armaments okay we need to have food security for all of our armed service men and women
00:40:00
absolutely and then what happens if that number gets to 350 billion do you just cut half
00:40:05
a billion or do you find ways to spend the other half a trillion dollars well I'm glad you brought that up because
00:40:10
that's what I did as governor I was the first governor who did zero-based budgeting and I did it
00:40:16
um first governor New Jersey to do it and I did it because of the the Dire Straits that we were in I didn't think
00:40:24
we could assume any longer anything in terms of our spending so I absolutely would want to take that approach now I
00:40:32
don't think you're going to go from 877 billion to 350 billion um and say that we've met all of our
00:40:40
defense needs and the needs of our fighting men and women with that with that number
00:40:46
but let's just leave the number blank for a minute if I concluded that we could do everything we needed to
00:40:54
do through the re-engineering of what how we were spending the Pentagon and that ultimately it would check the
00:41:03
boxes I want it checked in terms of some of the issues I just talked about and it turned out to be less than 877
00:41:10
billion of course I would look not to spend 877 billion but that assumes a lot of things
00:41:18
in there as you know but the principle of zero-based budgeting from my perspective worked
00:41:24
when I was governor not only in terms of keeping our spending at an increase of two percent a year
00:41:32
annually for eight years but it also educated me much more on the intricacies of the budget as the
00:41:40
ultimate decision maker I think that was useful you were a very effective prosecutor and part of that is having a
00:41:46
good intuition so I'm just going to ask you your intuition how much waste do you think is in the
00:41:52
military-industrial complex in that 877 billion do you think there's 30 cents of
00:41:57
waste do you think there's 40 cents of waste do you think there's five cents of waste or do you think there's like 70
00:42:01
cents of waste my intuition tells me that it is significant I can't put a number on it be irresponsible for me to
00:42:08
put a number on it but there's no doubt that when you see us spend the 877 billion
00:42:13
and we don't have 155 millimeter artillery shells that there's waste let's talk about governance and just
00:42:21
like civil society and government for a second but let's just finish on this military-industrial complex why is it
00:42:28
how does it come to be that so much corruption and graft gets introduced into the
00:42:37
military budget explain just how how it happens how does all of this waste end up happening where on the one hand you
00:42:45
ask people men and women oftentimes poor oftentimes minorities to come and serve
00:42:50
and put their lives on the front lines you don't even give them enough food somebody's clearly making money out of
00:42:55
the 877 billion just explain how that waste comes to be and the influence pedaling and the
00:43:03
revolving door just so that the average person can understand it well first off and I'll answer your your question
00:43:10
specifically but let me say by answering it this way I don't want to imply in any
00:43:15
way that this waste and Corruption happens just in the military budget because it happens it's been my
00:43:23
experience it happens across budgets um across disciplines with that being said I would say it happens in a number of
00:43:31
different ways first of all not doing zero based budgeting contributes to that because people no longer have to
00:43:37
rationalize or Justify the existence of a program they just need to hire enough lobbyists to keep it getting put in
00:43:43
there so that's one way that it happens secondly incompetence in administration so people who are either purely
00:43:54
incompetent in the job or alternative two is are corrupt in the job and so they look the other way on waste because
00:44:03
they want to get a job through the revolving door you talked about on the other side
00:44:08
third way that I think it happens is um extraordinary events that cause political overreaction
00:44:20
so you'll have an extraordinary event that occurs um from a national security perspective
00:44:26
and then politicians want to look like we're responding to it and the way we're responding to it is
00:44:33
we're going to spend X tens hundreds of billions more on this broad category of of initiatives
00:44:43
without really digging into whether that can be spent effectively that way or not
00:44:48
and then once it gets in there for the reasons I gave to you in the two examples before it doesn't get out so
00:44:56
you layer it over and layer it over and layer it over and layer it over and then
00:45:01
that's the way that stuff happens so I think it's a bit of a nutshell a presentation on that for you
00:45:10
um but I think those are the three most important elements that I've observed personally
00:45:17
um in governing a state with sixty thousand employees and a 34 billion dollar budget you think the antidote to
00:45:26
that is a is to start with zero based budgeting or are there other more radical changes you would want to make
00:45:32
whether it's to the CIA or the NSA how do you think about getting to the root cause of or root answer of the truth
00:45:39
look I think that that there's two ways to do it initially and zero-based budgeting is one of them and secondly is
00:45:48
to try to select competent people um for those positions who understand clearly from the leader what their
00:45:58
mission is would you for example be willing to do an EO that said if you serve in these roles you're banned from
00:46:04
serving any of these folks for 20 years or something like that something that just makes it clear that there's no
00:46:09
Financial motivation for somebody to walk out the door and then go and work for Lockheed Martin or
00:46:14
just augment that let's talk about these former generals like the ones we were quoting who predicted the counter
00:46:19
offensive would be this wonderful success they're all now on the boards of weapons manufacturers
00:46:24
so the people in the Pentagon who make a lot of these procurement decisions about weapon systems when they
00:46:31
retire they go off to serve on these boards I mean the big weapons companies are basically their
00:46:37
retirement program I mean that seems like a horrible set of incentives I mean would you do something like ban the
00:46:43
revolving door between people working in the Pentagon and then working for a weapons company
00:46:49
well I certainly would be willing to consider um if they if they worked with a particular contractor they had
00:46:58
supervisory or decision-making authority over a program run by a particular contractor not being able to go back out
00:47:05
and work better when they go back in the problem is they know in advance that their retirement program is going to be
00:47:10
working on one of these boards so they're not as tough as they should be when they're actually in the government
00:47:15
job all right so you talk about the revolving door on the way in like basically you work your way up to
00:47:20
General and then you retire and then you join the boards of these Raytheon and Lockheed and all these guys
00:47:27
well I think that there are appropriate restrictions that can be put on in terms
00:47:32
of number of years to make it go past the period when that person could have direct political influence on the
00:47:38
administration that's in play but I also think we need to be careful about the fact that we don't we don't
00:47:45
wind up um throwing out the baby with the bath water in the sense that there are some
00:47:51
people who are legitimate people who are not looking to do it in a way that is corrupt or unethical but who develop
00:48:01
great expertise in certain areas and that expertise can be very helpful we're only looking at the negative side of it
00:48:08
um so I think there are ways to do what we need to do with the political influence and that it would be to ban it
00:48:14
for the rest of that Administration so if you serve in a particular Administration for the rest of the
00:48:20
administration you can't go back out and work on the issues that you were working on when you were there that to
00:48:27
me this seems to be reasonable yeah I mean I I don't know whether 20 years makes sense or not
00:48:32
um but you know we've identified the problem now let's figure out how to fix it my I'm willing and open to do that
00:48:41
but I want to make sure I do it in a way that is not creating a whole different set of problems that we'll then be
00:48:48
talking about well and and the analogy I make in part on this is the wall between
00:48:54
CIA and FBI um and the problems that that I think precipitated um regarding 911. so
00:49:04
you know there there are fixes to these things and I'm telling you guys is I'm willing to be open about how to do it I
00:49:12
favor the concept I think we're negotiating over length of years and how it applies should that be the case for
00:49:18
all government administrative jobs Governor sure so FDA into Health Care Health Care into FDA USDA like should
00:49:27
that be the case everywhere it's the same principle yeah how should that then be applied to Congress people
00:49:33
ah well uh since the EO won't cover members of Congress in the same way that that's why they don't have term limits
00:49:40
which I believe they should have um and why none of this stuff will ever apply to Congress so let's tell the
00:49:46
truth it'll never apply to Congress because they'd have to pass it for it to apply and it will never happen
00:49:53
but the president could do what he could do about his branch of government and should and I would let's pivot to one of
00:50:01
the most controversial topics between the two parties which is immigration and I'll pull up two charts here to queue up
00:50:07
the uh discussion here's the first chart just since 2000 we've been uh net migration United States just on a steady
00:50:15
stream down at around 5 million second chart is border crossings that orange line there that you're seeing that's
00:50:23
covid and then the Blue Line obviously is the return from covid but uh the Border agency seems to think not much
00:50:29
has changed over the last couple of years at the border however we have and that's across obviously multiple
00:50:36
Administrations other countries have point-based systems they have very logical discussions over
00:50:43
immigration is this person going to add and be accretive to the society is this person going to be a drain on society
00:50:49
and you know they just UK Australia New Zealand countless countries now use this
00:50:55
point-based system it's incredibly polarized here and we have the lowest and we have the
00:51:00
lowest unemployment of our lifetime plenty of jobs we still have 1.6 jobs per American who is who are looking for jobs
00:51:09
I'm curious why you think this immigration discussion is so polarized and not factual and how you as president
00:51:19
would uh resolve this issue and and maybe make it make more sense to the American public
00:51:26
well I look I think the first thing the first part of the question is how has it
00:51:31
gotten so polarized and I think it's because people in political life have used this as a weapon
00:51:39
um on both sides of the aisle um to try to promote their own um political agendas Democrats have
00:51:46
wanted this perception um on the on their positive side from their perspective um that don't let anybody in because
00:51:54
they think ultimately those folks who come in will be their voters ultimately over the Long Haul
00:52:02
and they also want to raise restrictions they want to raise the issue of restrictions that are placed by
00:52:09
Republicans on this to make us seem to be heartless uncaring unfeeling people on our side
00:52:19
um we want to make the entire system seem completely Lawless because that plays into our view of
00:52:27
ourselves as the Law and Order party and the Democrats as the party who could give a damn about Law and Order
00:52:34
and we want to play into the populist side of it which says that any person who comes over the border is likely to
00:52:41
take your job not just a job your job and then when you present it to people that way they our course are going to be
00:52:50
anti-immigration because they'd like to keep their job and support their family and have a life that they want to look
00:52:57
um forward to and for their kids as well so that's my explanation on the first part
00:53:05
as to how we got here seems logical yeah and and fair by the way your assessment
00:53:09
of both parties by the way on these topics I think is excellent by the way completely unfair way to have conducted
00:53:16
this stuff the problem has been that we haven't had presidential leadership on this issue since Reagan
00:53:24
Reagan ultimately and I think he learned this as a conservative governor in a blue
00:53:31
state we're going to deal with Jesse unra running his legislature and Reagan um let's all friend of mine because I
00:53:38
just finished writing a book on Reagan so it's fresh in mind to me um Reagan learned
00:53:47
that it was only he the governor who could force people into a room to to get issues resolved
00:53:58
in the same way when he was president he didn't love the deal he made on immigration
00:54:05
same way he didn't love the deal he made on Social Security but he liked it more than he liked the
00:54:12
alternative of doing nothing I think the only way we're going to resolve the immigration issue Jason is
00:54:19
to have a president as I said in response to David friedberg's earlier question on debt a
00:54:26
president who's willing to sacrifice some popularity to try to force a resolution
00:54:33
and I do think that most Americans would support a merit-based immigration system why does it never come up I mean
00:54:42
it's if these other countries have had such great success with it why won't any politician say it I haven't heard you
00:54:47
say it in the debates I don't know if you have I haven't heard everything you've said but they'd even ask us about
00:54:51
immigration in the debates they next comes on immigration entitlements or the debt three things we've already talked
00:54:58
about here today but they had time to ask me about UFOs yeah that was pretty bizarre they're
00:55:05
like hey the most meaningless setup for us uh Governor um let's talk about UFOs I mean what did you think of
00:55:16
the ending of secession Governor yeah I mean you know it's like I mean so um so I have talked about my town hall
00:55:23
meetings about Republicans should be advocating for a merit-based immigration system
00:55:30
but we need to also recognize while I think both parties will be in should be in favor of a
00:55:39
secure Southern border if for no other reason than the Fentanyl and drug related issues that are that
00:55:47
are involved why is there such a debate over the numbers because you know I I just pulled
00:55:52
up those numbers and that's the border patrol and that's across multiple administrations and then people are
00:55:57
saying you're living in a simulation Jason do you see the Washington Post just last week the headline is families
00:56:03
Crossing U.S border illegally reached all-time high in August this is the Washington Post oh you trust the
00:56:10
Washington Post now I'm saying that if a liberal Democrat publication that serves
00:56:15
the DC blob is admitting this problem why can't you admit it oh I'm not saying that it's not
00:56:22
at all-time Highs but it doesn't seem to have gotten much different than over the
00:56:28
last two administrations like it's not a serious problem no no I don't I promise
00:56:32
you I'm not worried about my job as the United States can't absorb a million migrants that's my question
00:56:40
obviously I care about it so don't tell me I don't care about I'm just fact checking that that it's fine to fact
00:56:46
check but even though it's at all-time highs if you look at that chart it seems like there's a big debate on the numbers
00:56:52
that hey maybe at all-time Highs but it's been relatively the same and so that's what I'm trying to get at
00:56:58
Governor why why can't we get good numbers on this well we do get good numbers on it but everybody slices the
00:57:05
numbers differently you know um I I I used to work in a deli when I was in high school for a period of time
00:57:13
and you know everybody had the same big chunk of baloney but depending on how you sliced it
00:57:20
um it looked different and so I agree with David that it is a very serious problem right now
00:57:30
and it's because of Biden's policies and his rhetoric he sent a very clear signal during the 2020 campaign if I win
00:57:40
the borders open let's go everybody come on in and it has caused a crisis in a number
00:57:48
of levels also Democratic politicians saying that they were willing to be Sanctuary cities and
00:57:54
Sanctuary States well now I see the front page of the New York Post every day and and here's Eric Adams complaining
00:58:04
that he needs help he needs help well you should have shut up and not said you were a sanctuary City
00:58:13
and then you wouldn't need the help but it's easy did you see the video yesterday he said that all his time in
00:58:19
New York he's always seen an end to every problem there's always a solution he says I have not seen I cannot see an
00:58:26
end to this problem I don't see a solution yeah no he didn't I'm in favor of the point
00:58:36
system have been very consistent about that I think we should actually have a thoughtful discussion of how many people
00:58:42
we can actually bring in and sustain you know that that's the obvious discussion
00:58:46
we all agree on merit-based immigration the thing that I have an issue with Jason is just you pretend like the
00:58:51
borders not in crisis it is in crisis oh yeah I think it's it's it's not it hasn't been resolved for decades right I
00:59:00
mean we we have not had a solution there but when's the last time the Border was
00:59:04
functional Trump at least had to remain a Mexico policy and then Biden revoked it and now they're thinking about
00:59:09
bringing it back because they have no way to control the huge number of people who are streaming across yeah I'm just
00:59:14
trying to advocate for a point-based system by the way on the numbers yeah that's what should be part of a
00:59:19
negotiation between Republicans and Democrats in Congress in the White House yeah based upon the current
00:59:27
circumstances we can't deal with all the stuff that's happened before but what we
00:59:32
know now is we have current circumstances now guys which are not only impacting quality of
00:59:39
life in terms of crime and quality of life in terms of Education because you see what's going to happen
00:59:47
in the New York school system and you know you are going to have thousands of immigrant children who now are going
00:59:56
to show up at the New York City Public Schools to be educated um that's why the uncontrolled part of
01:00:04
what um of what David Sachs is talking about is is so vital right now and thirdly but most importantly to me
01:00:13
is the fentanyl issue because when you have 110 000 people dying of overdoses last year in this
01:00:20
country and you have overdose being the number one killer of men between 18 and 34
01:00:26
it is a crisis and it is a crisis which is not created entirely by the border but is contributed to mightily
01:00:34
by what's going on at the border would you send uh there's been talk of this I think from certain candidates would you
01:00:41
send troops into Mexico to take out the cartels or is that no I know I would not
01:00:47
I would put National Guard at the border to work with Customs and Border Patrol um to stop the fentanyl uh cartels from
01:00:57
getting in to our country and I would use our intelligence community to do what we always do with enemies of
01:01:06
that nature which is to Target them and to make sure that if they're going to do what they're going to do that
01:01:11
they're that they're dealt with but in terms of a Ron DeSantis full-scale invasion of Mexico yeah I think I'd
01:01:18
probably demure on that one you'd whack these people bring in the Fentanyl and you just wouldn't do it on the soil in
01:01:24
Mexico correct and also um and I'd whack them within the laws of the United States sure it would not be a
01:01:33
vigilante system where everybody goes down there and just starts popping somebody they think is a fentanyl dealer
01:01:38
if they come over the Border um but what I would also say to you is we've got to we've got to also make sure
01:01:47
we deal with this diplomatically with the Mexicans and by diplomatically I mean not like being nice through very
01:01:54
hard negotiations with them to say to the Mexican president like you have you are importing
01:02:01
precursor chemicals from China into your country to make fentanyl with the sole purpose of profiting from
01:02:10
and killing Americans that's not something we're going to tolerate so you wouldn't send Fury out
01:02:15
we got it I mean we do it the smart way not the way that lets you pound your chest and pretend you're you're you know
01:02:23
television let me double click on that since you you brought up fentanyl we have this crisis here in San Francisco
01:02:28
open air drug Market cheapest fentanyl you can get plus we give subsidies if you come here and you're a fentanyl
01:02:33
addict we we pay for you to come here essentially it's absolute chaos we keep getting promises in San Francisco that
01:02:40
we're going to turn around and we're going to take it seriously it never happens
01:02:44
given that is there not a case for the feds coming in and cracking down on the fentanyl trade here and if you were
01:02:51
president would you come in and you sharp the local authorities and just take out all these crazy open-air drug
01:02:57
markets in some cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco I actually said that in the debate what I would do
01:03:05
um would be to instruct the Attorney General to instruct the U.S attorneys in the
01:03:10
cities with these kind of problems that we are taking over the prosecution of violent and Drug crime in those cities
01:03:19
if the prosecutors on the state level are unwilling to do it the U.S attorneys have the laws under the on the federal
01:03:24
books to do it we have the rooms of the federal prisons and we will police these
01:03:29
cities until they get their act together they just got a couple million votes in
01:03:34
California because people here are fed up with the locals Governor can I just push back on that I recently started
01:03:39
reading the Federalist papers again sex I don't know when you last reviewed them
01:03:44
and I'm just struck by how so much of our modern political rhetoric is driven by what the federal government will do
01:03:50
for you on a national basis a state basis and now even a local basis is that really the role of the Federal
01:03:56
Government no or should each state and each City ultimately decide what the hell kind of City they want to build
01:04:02
what they want to live in and then deal with the consequences and let the federal government become responsible
01:04:08
for the things that were defined in our Constitution and that the constitutional
01:04:12
republic was meant to set out to do for the federal government rather than use the federal government as a hammer to
01:04:18
smash all Nails everywhere at some point the hammer is going to break so let me answer the question which is
01:04:26
no it's not the role the federal government to do it unless the Discord and the inability of the
01:04:34
states to deal with an issue begins to affect the entire country and I believe that these this failure
01:04:43
and it's by the way it's a planned failure David this is the Soros group going around and electing these
01:04:50
completely liberal prosecutors who say no I don't I'm not gonna prosecute these crimes anymore
01:04:58
it begins to affect the very nature of the entire country if we don't have functional cities David we can't have a
01:05:05
functional country and so no I would do this only because I think by the time I get there in January 25 we are going to
01:05:13
be at Last Resort World now if in the interim between now and January of 25 the Discord in places like San Francisco
01:05:23
Los Angeles Chicago New York and others got so bad that the citizens There Rose up and demanded something different
01:05:32
and the states and cities started to respond to it I'm no interest in doing this unless we
01:05:38
are the law enforcers of Last Resort and so philosophically I completely agree with
01:05:44
you but we're now in a situation where when I was in New York City all day yesterday
01:05:52
it is the worst I've seen New York City since the late 70s I agree yeah and I was old
01:06:00
enough then to go in I was a high school student in the late 70s and go into the
01:06:05
City and my parents used to be petrified if I insisted on going into New York to
01:06:09
go to a basketball game or a hockey game the walk from the Port Authority bus terminal on 41st and 8th to Madison
01:06:16
Square Garden on 33rd and 8th was a absolute youthful uh youthful education um on drugs and porn and and violent
01:06:28
crime but so I agree with you philosophically on that but I think in the instance we're in right now this is
01:06:35
what we'd have to do in order to get it back under control um and so I'm not thrilled about it but
01:06:41
I think it's absolutely necessary in the United States we have somewhere between
01:06:45
two and three million Americans incarcerated one of the highest per capita incarceration rates of any country in
01:06:52
the world and a lot of this Justice Reform movement arose from what are considered
01:06:59
to be very deep inequities in the imprisonment of of American citizens for various Petty
01:07:07
crimes misdemeanors that turn into felonies that turn into three strikes that turn into spending your life in
01:07:12
prison and that obviously there's a big racial divide in how this affects the population and from that movement arose
01:07:19
this effort to try and address the social inequities and how the prison system has become to some an extension
01:07:25
or the follow-on to America's toward history with slavery what is your point of view then do we
01:07:34
have inequities in the prison system in how we address crime in this country and
01:07:39
if so what would the right path have been looking back now at the efforts and the dollars that have gone into trying
01:07:44
to solve this problem through decriminalization that has obviously led to massive problems in in inner cities
01:07:50
is it a problem the criminalization in this country the incarceration of this country and if so what's the right path
01:07:55
to addressing it and obviously you have an intimate history here so you would know this better than most that we would
01:08:00
talk to yeah look I think it is a problem and let me tell you what I did as governor we did Criminal Justice
01:08:06
Reform in New Jersey and we did it in a bipartisan way and this is what we did I thought
01:08:14
that the biggest problem we had in New Jersey was our um our state constitution required it
01:08:21
was a shall issue State on bail everyone was entitled to bail under our Constitution and
01:08:30
the only factor that could be taken into account constitutionally David was risk of
01:08:35
flight so if you had a rap sheet as long as my arm and your arm put together that could not be considered by a judge
01:08:43
in whether or not to Grant bail or not nor could the the nature of the violence you committed in those Acts
01:08:51
I saw that as enormous problem I agreed with Democrats that on a lot of these minor drug crimes and I don't mean
01:08:59
dealing crimes I mean possession crimes with addicts being arrested for small amounts of possession
01:09:07
that we had become a debtors prison in New Jersey that if somebody couldn't afford the 500
01:09:14
bucks for the minimum L which was usually five thousand dollars they spent more time in in county and
01:09:21
state prison than they ever would have spent if they'd you know just pled guilty and
01:09:26
been allowed to plead guilty and get sentenced so the deal we made was this on certain defined non-violent crimes
01:09:36
I would agree to the state law allowing release on people's own recognizance in return
01:09:45
the Democrats would amend our constitution to make it a May issue State on bail and to add dangerousness to the
01:09:54
community as a factor to be considered in granting bail or not what's happened since then crime in New Jersey is down
01:10:02
since we did this we closed two state prisons and we have not had any spike in violent
01:10:11
crime like you've seen in New York since then because we did it smartly and in a way
01:10:17
that was balanced and what you've also seen is 98 of the people released on the Rogue
01:10:24
recognizance have shown back up for their Court hearings so we're not having some you know people
01:10:30
running around and jumping the RoR um release that they've gotten and I took one of the two state prisons
01:10:38
we closed and turned it into a drug treatment prison so that folks who had documented drug and alcohol addictions
01:10:48
while in prison were able to go for the concluding parts of their term to this secondary prison
01:10:56
to get which is fully secure and they were detained but they also got drug and alcohol treatment
01:11:04
while they were in there and what we've seen with that is we've seen recidivism drop among those people who've gone
01:11:10
through that program by nearly 40 percent there are ways we can do this without having the results New York has
01:11:18
had through their ridiculous Criminal Justice Reform we could do it the right way across the
01:11:25
whole country have you seen other states follow New Jersey's later or New Jersey's model or I have seen a couple
01:11:31
of other states that have done it um I don't think anybody's done it as well as we did it and Imagine This
01:11:37
you know a republican governor got support from the PBA and the fop for that reform
01:11:49
so from law enforcement professionals and got an A plus from the ACLU now when you can get both of those
01:11:58
it's kind of hard to get that done and I think we've gotten it done and we just had a at my policy Institute we just had
01:12:05
a seminar on this from people from the public defenders to criminal private criminal defense
01:12:11
lawyers prosecutors and cops all on a panel and not one of them had an objection to Criminal
01:12:18
Justice Reform in New Jersey and this is now nearly 10 years after we did it so I think there are ways to do this
01:12:27
um unfortunately a lot of people don't want to have an a long-form conversation on Criminal Justice Reform
01:12:36
um they want to have either the Joe Biden approach from when he was in the Senate mandatory minimums for everybody
01:12:42
for everybody in the can three strikes you're out all that stuff or they want to have the George Soros conversation
01:12:50
you know where um nobody who commits a crime really meant to do it and all jail is unfair
01:12:57
both of those are dead wrong Governor you mentioned the FBI briefly before one of the revelations
01:13:02
that came out during the Twitter files is that we had 80 FBI agents monitoring American social media accounts and
01:13:11
submitting takedown requests to Twitter this is your pre-elon Twitter and presumably many other big tech companies
01:13:19
because I'm sure they weren't just doing this with Twitter what business is it of the FBI to be
01:13:25
monitoring and censoring Americans do you think there's any justification for that what is your view of that I think
01:13:31
the only reason to monitor those kind of things would be for terrorist information and I think that would be
01:13:38
that would be reasonable to do um but I don't think for any other reason other than terrorist activity
01:13:45
domestic or foreign I think the FBI has a right to do that and I think it's the right thing to do
01:13:53
um but I don't think under any other circumstances today but they should be doing that are you willing to say to
01:13:59
Chris I understand it you you recommended Chris Ray for the position many years ago and and you're I think
01:14:05
you're a fan of his are you willing to say to him knock this off you should not be
01:14:10
you know involved in censoring American social media accounts I'm willing to say
01:14:15
to Chris exactly what I just said to you and and by the way I've known Chris long enough I mean we
01:14:22
were in the bush justice department together starting back at nine you know write the immediate Post 9 11 period so
01:14:28
I've known Chris now for 22 years um I will say exactly what I think to Chris and we'll instruct him
01:14:35
appropriately with the attorney general and let me just make a point David since
01:14:39
you brought that up I don't think presidents should be involved in the criminal investigatory activity
01:14:46
of the Department of Justice in any way and so you should set policies that say like that
01:14:54
you know your work should be restricted on monitoring to just domestic or inner or or International terrorism
01:15:03
but you shouldn't be commenting in any way on what they're doing from a criminal investigatory perspective I
01:15:10
think that started in the Obama years with Eric Holder when you appoint your wingman attorney general I guess that's
01:15:17
what happens and the fact is that it's continued through the Trump years and now through
01:15:22
the Biden years and my instruction to my attorney general will be the same as it
01:15:26
was because in New Jersey we don't elect attorney general we appoint them like you do in the federal system and what I
01:15:33
said to each of my Attorneys General was I know I was a U.S attorney for seven years I got a lot of expertise and
01:15:38
opinions on criminal prosecution I'm never going to call you ever and I never did because once you decide
01:15:46
to be a political figure and not a law enforcement figure you should stay out of criminal investigations so I know you
01:15:53
didn't ask it but it struck me when you were talking about that Governor let me ask let me ask you one last question
01:15:58
from my end which is why are you running for president recent polling data shows
01:16:02
a 52 unfavorable rating 23 favorable and you're a three and a half percent in the
01:16:08
average of the national polls what's the goal here help us understand how you think about the campaign and how you
01:16:14
think about your future as a political operator and what your goal is with the campaign
01:16:20
my goal is to be president of the United States and since I've been doing this for a while I don't pay attention to
01:16:26
National polls because we don't have a national primary and in fact we don't have a national
01:16:30
general election what we have is 50 individual State elections that's the way we nominate
01:16:36
candidates and if you look at the most recent poll in New Hampshire I'm in second place in New Hampshire at 14
01:16:42
percent ahead of Ron DeSantis ahead of Vivek ahead of Nikki ahead of Pence um and behind only Trump
01:16:50
and now I'm behind by 20 points I'll give you that but I'm behind a guy who's only at 34 percent
01:16:57
in that poll and so I absolutely believe I can win New Hampshire and I believe if I win New
01:17:03
Hampshire David then the whole race changes you have a line there yeah yeah right so so let's start off with I'm
01:17:11
running because I want to be president United States yep and that's the only reason to run I think I I don't need to
01:17:17
run to become famous I'm famous enough I don't need to run to I don't need to run to get a book deal
01:17:25
because you know what I've already written two books and my third one's getting ready to come out I don't need
01:17:30
to get a job on TV I gave that up to run for president so I'm running for president to be president David and and
01:17:38
that's why I'm doing it and for no other reason should Donald Trump be in jail we'll find out when these Trials happen
01:17:45
what do you think I'm willing to give everybody the perception of Innocence because that's what the Constitution
01:17:49
demands that I do criterial intuition I would have indicted both Federal cases I would not
01:17:59
have indicted the New York case or the Atlanta case as to Donald Trump I think on the New York case the Manhattan D.A
01:18:05
has a much more important work to be doing than bringing a case on a seven-year-old payment to a porn star
01:18:12
that he was having an affair with to keep it from the American people after the American people already know
01:18:17
everything they need to know about it so I think that was useless and purely political in the Atlanta case once Jack
01:18:24
Smith indicted Trump on Election interference federally I know that um Fannie Willis was probably very upset
01:18:32
that she had been investigating it for two and a half years and he beat her to the punch but he beat her to the punch
01:18:38
and there's no reason to indict somebody for the same acts twice and so I wouldn't have invited him in
01:18:45
Atlanta I would have indicted him for sure on the uh documents case but I will tell you since you asked I
01:18:54
wouldn't have indicted him on the documents I would have just indicted him on the obstruction of justice and the
01:19:00
lying I think by indicting on the documents you just made it a much more complicated
01:19:04
case that may not get to trial for a year and a half or two because of the classified documents involved and I
01:19:11
would have invited him on the January 6th case because I believe his activity um from election night forward
01:19:19
um is worthy of the probable cause standard now we'll see if the government can prove it Beyond A Reasonable Doubt
01:19:27
on both those cases I will tell you but on those cases that you would bring that
01:19:33
you would indict as a prosecutor what sentence would you seek because you know these Democrat prosecutors are seeking
01:19:39
over 500 years of jail time for Trump I mean what do you think that's just the status David that's just the statutory
01:19:46
number it's not whatever is done and people do that all the time they look at the statutory maximum they add up each
01:19:53
count and the statutory maximum and they come up to five it never happens and it's never asked though yeah and it's
01:19:59
never asked for um what you do if you were the prosecutor what punishment would you be
01:20:04
seeking I don't think that it makes any sense um for Donald Trump to go to jail and it's not just because he's Donald
01:20:13
Trump it has more to do quite frankly with the fact that he'd probably be 79 years old
01:20:19
before he'd be ready to go to jail and when I was Prosecuting cases I really felt like when you get to that age and
01:20:27
you send someone into the atmosphere that federal prison is even the minimum security federal prison that you're
01:20:33
essentially giving them a death sentence and unless they've done something with like Bernie Madoff for instance which is
01:20:40
worthy of a death sentence then I I would not think that sending him to jail would be appropriate
01:20:48
um now I you know a judge may feel differently and in the end all the prosecutor does
01:20:54
is make a recommendation the judge makes a decision if I were president of the United States
01:20:59
well I would not consider pardoning Donald Trump if he were convicted unless the trial for some reason showed itself
01:21:07
to have you know unconstitutionally unfair elements that were not corrected by the courts
01:21:13
other than that I wouldn't pardon him but if he were sentenced to jail I certainly would consider commuting the
01:21:20
sentence for the reasons I just said let's talk about what happened on January 6th or a second a lot of folks
01:21:25
in the Republican Party are framing it as like you know a day out at the park and uh we just saw Trump appointed
01:21:32
judges give The Oath Keepers and the proud boys sentences multi-decade sentences for
01:21:40
seditious conspiracy do you think this these sentences that have been handed down by Trump appointed judges are part
01:21:48
of a deep state conspiracy against the Republicans or do you think these people are domestic terrorists and that they
01:21:54
got appropriate sentences you know I don't want to she used to give an answer on each one of the cases
01:22:00
because I quite frankly could tell you that I haven't followed the cases each one of them closely
01:22:04
enough you just did on the other four let's give an opinion pardon me you just did on the other four though
01:22:10
I don't know there were no you're asking me about that was the Trump cases yeah and I'm
01:22:18
talking about and I said that because of his age okay all right and so none of these folks are the proud boys I think
01:22:25
we're in their 70s okay so that's the difference between the two but I'm gonna try to answer your question great I just
01:22:32
don't want to say I'm giving an opinion as to each and every sentence okay what I want to say about it though is that
01:22:38
what they did on January 6th was unlawful it was extremely serious and it requires imprisonment
01:22:49
okay and so each of these individual cases have nuances and individual facts through them that I'm not I will tell
01:22:56
you I'm not completely conversant in okay so the difference between a 15-year sentence and an 18-year sentence over
01:23:03
22-year sentence if I sat down and I delved into what was presented at trial and what was
01:23:09
presented in the sentencing memoranda I'd give you an opinion but I haven't done that enough to be honest can I ask
01:23:16
one final question from my perspective one of the reasons that the polling can sometimes Veer this way
01:23:24
is that in the Republican polls a lot of the attacks against you Governor focus on
01:23:31
obviously Bridge gate and Beach gate and then this kind of like theoretical corruption allegations
01:23:39
directed at you and your staff now your staff was convicted of wire fraud but then the Supreme Court overturned it
01:23:45
nine to zero right and now what they said though was that there was corruption but there wasn't corruption
01:23:51
to try to get money which is why the wire fraud I think that's what Elena Kagan said in the ruling the majority
01:23:56
ruling it was and it was 9-0 so it was very very clear that the doj just kind of took again to your
01:24:03
case talking about Trump the wrong charges almost okay and what they did was not illegal even if what they did
01:24:08
may have been illegal under a different Statute in any event it would be great for you to set the
01:24:14
record on Bridgegate and Beach gate we're really calling Beach gate well I'm just calling it up like really well I
01:24:22
think what people got upset was and I'm just going to repeat this I don't have an issue with this is there was a State
01:24:27
Beach that was closed and there was pictures of you and your family on that beach when everybody else was told to
01:24:32
stay at home that's I get I guess that's what people point to I'm just giving you
01:24:35
that just say just address it however you want so you can be definitive in your own language all right so let's
01:24:42
deal with um the beach situation um every beach in New Jersey that day was open except for one
01:24:52
every beach in New Jersey so the idea that people across the state of New Jersey were kept off the beach that day
01:24:59
and me and my family were the only people on the beach is completely wrong so everybody who wanted to go to the
01:25:08
beach that day could go to the beach somewhere in New Jersey except for the state park and the reason the state park
01:25:14
was closed was because the legislature did not send me a budget in time if they sent me a budget I would have
01:25:22
signed it and the beach would have been open they refused to send me a budget now having said that factually
01:25:28
contextually it was a mistake for me to go on the beach now I told everybody when the the
01:25:35
budget standoff was going on that my family was going to be at that house and they were going to go on the beach
01:25:44
but we were not going to use any services lifeguards or garbage service or anything else because it wouldn't be
01:25:50
open so I told everybody that up front I shouldn't have gone out there myself because I was the governor it was a
01:25:59
mistake I went out there and spent an hour with my family it was a mistake I hardly think it merits a gate
01:26:07
yeah I wouldn't give it a game baby and I and I would hardly call it corruption okay yeah no it's not corruption on
01:26:15
bridge gate let's remember this has been investigated by a democratic State Legislature with
01:26:23
subpoena power by a democratic U.S attorney with an ax to grind for me with subpoena power
01:26:33
and in both of those investing and also an investigation that we um uh authorized internally
01:26:42
all three of the investigations agreed on one thing I had no knowledge of what happened no
01:26:48
one told me what was going on and I didn't find out about it until well after the fact
01:26:54
and nobody's ever disputed that who's done an investigation and if they thought I'd done something wrong
01:27:01
given that ridiculous indictments they brought I'm sure they would have thrown me in there too if they had anything
01:27:06
they could have gone with these were three employees who did something extraordinarily stupid
01:27:15
and they should have been fired and they were as soon as I found out about it they
01:27:21
were all fired they should never work in public office again but what they did was stupid not
01:27:28
Criminal and if we start criminalizing every time someone does something stupid we won't have enough jails and when you
01:27:37
get Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Clarence Thomas to agree on an overreach by the Department of Justice it was a
01:27:45
politically motivated prosecution because I had just been re-elected with 61 percent of the vote in a blue State
01:27:51
and was ahead of Hillary Clinton by eight points in National polls that's why they did it they thought they
01:27:57
were going to get me they cooperated the guy who admits he was The Mastermind of the situation they
01:28:05
cooperated him to try to get me and once they realized they couldn't get me they had to indict somebody so they
01:28:12
invited the two other people I believe you I think that the I think the doj engages in a lot of political
01:28:18
prosecutions why isn't Jack Smith's prosecution politically minded and the point I'll come back to is that Merrick
01:28:25
Garland did this analysis when he first came in on whether Trump was guilty of incitement on January 6 and they had
01:28:32
like a memo come back saying sorry we can't get him for that there was then a leak in the Washington Post from Biden
01:28:39
himself saying that he thought mayor Garland was being kind of wimpy and that they should go after Trump and then lo
01:28:44
and behold mayor Garland appoints Jack Smith to go get Trump and Jack Smith's case depends on knowing the inner
01:28:51
workings of Trump's mind this like fraud on the American people idea that he not
01:28:56
only made up this stolen election narrative but he knew it was false which I don't see how they're ever going to
01:29:01
prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt so why isn't that a political prosecution I mean Biden clearly wanted it he
01:29:07
instigated it through through a leak to The Washington Post or at least that seems to be the chronology whether it
01:29:13
was deliberate or not and it requires Jack Smith to prove this impossible Theory because it requires knowing what
01:29:19
Trump was really thinking when he was saying all this stuff right so how is that not an equally political
01:29:24
prosecution all right so let me separate the two so you're talking just about Jan's sixth not about the classified
01:29:31
documents correct I'm just talking about the Jack Smith theory that Trump perpetrated a fraud because he knew his
01:29:37
stolen election narrative was false well look I think that there is going to be a
01:29:42
lot of interesting testimony that will be given in that case regarding what Donald Trump really knew
01:29:49
and what he really thought what he was telling people at the time and I don't think it's as clear-cut as
01:29:54
you're making it out to be now what I said at the time when he brought the Jan 6 case is it is aggressive
01:30:02
there's no question it's an aggressive prosecution do I believe it's political I don't know
01:30:08
but I will say it's aggressive it's much more aggressive than the classified documents case because you're exactly
01:30:16
right that state of mind which is a part of every criminal case will be a part of
01:30:21
this one and trying to get inside Donald Trump's Minds is a dangerous thing because he says so many contradictory
01:30:28
things right so you know he was saying to me during debate prep in 2020 that he was absolutely convinced
01:30:37
that um he could lose this election not that it would be stolen that he could lose it
01:30:44
because of covid and covid ruins his great economy and now he's going to lose so he said a lot of different things to
01:30:51
a lot of different people over time um and all I'd say David is that it is going to be an aggressive case to
01:30:59
prove and by the way if they don't prove it it will be a stain on the Department of
01:31:06
Justice for bringing the case at all I have and then why support it I mean look so hold on let me I'm going to
01:31:13
finish that okay I know what you're going to say so I'll finish it I believe given what I know
01:31:20
that Donald Trump does not believe that the election was stolen that's what I believe from knowing him
01:31:26
for 22 years and from being with him in much of the pre-election period and him expressing
01:31:34
his very genuine concerns about the fact that he was losing to Biden and that he
01:31:40
could lose to Biden not because of mail-in ballots because of covet that I don't believe he really believes
01:31:47
the election was stolen but can you prove that Beyond A Reasonable Doubt well that's the that's the part that's
01:31:52
aggressive David and I don't know all the evidence they have I suspect they've got a number of people
01:31:58
who are going to tell the jury that Trump told them that he thought he lost but we're gonna see but we're gonna see
01:32:06
and that's why I call it aggressive by the way let me just get on the record here that I agree with you that a lot of
01:32:12
the underlying Behavior was really bad and I've said so on the Pod before I'm not defending the underlying Behavior
01:32:17
what I question is the wisdom of one president basically Biden his justice department going after the former
01:32:26
president who is currently the leading candidate in the election against him and doing it within a year before the
01:32:33
election as opposed to three years ago how is that wise David let me ask you a question first off if they didn't Donald
01:32:40
if they had indicted Donald Trump six months after January 6th you know what everybody would have said brush the
01:32:47
judgment no good investigation they had this breed determined you can't win as a prosecutor on that
01:32:56
one either you went too quick or you waited too long so I don't buy that at all I think it's
01:33:02
bull now on the question of whether or not a president should allow his justice department to charge
01:33:12
someone who is his predecessor and potentially an opponent again well what's the alternative
01:33:20
let's say on let's take it away from the January 6th one and look at the documents one
01:33:25
if he obstructed Justice if he Glide and obstructed the grand jury subpoena if he kept classified
01:33:33
documents he was not entitled to keep and then hit them from his own lawyers when they were trying to respond to that
01:33:39
if he instructed people to delete surveillance camera video which would have shown him having people move those
01:33:46
documents then all you have to do is declare for president and you don't get prosecuted
01:33:52
I mean I understand it's a lousy situation but there are a number of people who believe that the only reason Donald
01:34:00
Trump is running for president again is to be able to make that argument and so I understand
01:34:08
no no I think he wants retribution from the sea to power I'll do I'll do so Governor Christie let me ask
01:34:22
you a question because you know Trump do you think he tried to overturn the election and do you think given the
01:34:28
chance to overturn the election and steal the election Donald Trump based on your knowledge of his character for
01:34:34
multiple decades and working with him do you think he would have done it do you think he's that criminal minded
01:34:41
I don't think he would have any he would have had any problem with the election being overturned okay and I think if it
01:34:48
if it if it was he would have been more than happy to have his rear end sleeping
01:34:54
in the white house tonight um now I think he evolved to that position in this respect
01:35:03
I've had the opportunity to meet um a number of different presidents every president going back to Bush 41.
01:35:12
every one of them regardless of my disagreements with them on policy we're matured and humbled by the office
01:35:24
except for him okay the office made him worse it made him a worse person I've known
01:35:32
him for 22 years the guy I met in 2001. would not have done what 2020 Donald Trump did
01:35:42
and I think he is a perfect example of power having corrupted someone to the point where he was willing to not only
01:35:51
engage in that conduct but to essentially threaten his own vice president um do you think Russia gay played played a
01:36:01
role in that I mean meaning here Donald Trump you know he's the ultimate Outsider maybe he has a chip on his
01:36:06
shoulder about not being accepted in you know by certain elements of society he wins the White House as this huge shock
01:36:13
and rather than accepting it the entire Democratic party said his election was illegitimate and they claimed that
01:36:18
basically somehow Putin masterminded it and then they subjected him to two years
01:36:22
of this Mueller investigation which turned up nothing but they claimed that he was based agent
01:36:43
I'm talking about him asking for help from Russia you're the last person to live in that simulation Jason correct
01:36:49
not asking the governor a question do you think the two years of this Russia gate Oaks basically drove Trump to this
01:36:55
Behavior or played a role in it I'll go with your with your last piece not the first one I I no doubt that it
01:37:04
contributed to his feeling that people were after him no doubt and I said from the beginning I thought the Russia thing
01:37:11
was complete crap and the reason I thought it was was because I was there in 2016.
01:37:16
that campaign was so bad and so disorganized they couldn't have arranged a two-car funeral let alone
01:37:25
conspired with the Russian government to interfere with the election I was there
01:37:31
it was amateurish and it won because they ran against the worst presidential candidate in my lifetime in Hillary
01:37:40
Clinton so I said from the beginning I thought the Russia investigation was illegitimate and was wrong do I think it
01:37:47
contributed to his attitude I think it did but I don't think David it would be fair to say
01:37:53
that that's what made him that way yeah fair enough it's a lot more than contributed to it
01:38:01
than that but yeah I would certainly concede that because I objected to the Russia investigation at the time in real
01:38:09
time to publicly kudos to you for that because I think you've been Vindicated by what's happened in the last few years
01:38:14
last question for me on documents okay do you think that there's a selective prosecution issue here because Sandy
01:38:22
Berger stuff documents in his pants from a clean room never prosecuted Petraeus had a huge classified documents problem
01:38:29
slap on the wrist I mean it seems like and by the way Biden had documents by his beloved Corvette and in offices all
01:38:37
over the place going back many years so I mean isn't this document's case it seems like no one really wanted to
01:38:43
prosecute this law until Trump did it and now it's like get drunk now look I think Trump did this one to himself
01:38:51
David if he had turned over the documents he illegally had and at any point when he was being requested to
01:38:58
from February of 2021 through to when the search occurred there would be no prosecution well I agree with that and
01:39:08
the problem let's get these other guys because they gave the documents back because look
01:39:13
Biden gave the documents back I mean Penn State the documents back when asked what this guy did was obstructed it in
01:39:22
every way he could I don't want people looking through my boxes my boxes this guy is like a freak and about these
01:39:30
boxes I'm telling you he I used to campaign with him he would have a box of documents now back then it was 2016. it
01:39:38
was a box of documents from Trump Tower no one could touch them no one could look at them he'd go through them a
01:39:45
little bit but they he literally had a seat for his box of documents next to him on his plane no one could sit next
01:39:53
to him the box of documents went next to him so there's a psychosis here on the documents David that's deep all right
01:40:00
okay but maybe but maybe that is to himself he did it to himself walked into it I agree he totally walked into this
01:40:08
he sprinted into it with his arms wide open and he screwed himself but in the process he screwed the country but what
01:40:16
you're describing is an idiosyncratic issue he liked his boxes he had mementos in them this was not a national security
01:40:22
issue and I'm sure it was how sure it was how you cannot permit the president United States to be flashing around in
01:40:30
Iran War plan on the on the deck in Mar-A-Lago sorry not allowed especially not after your president and you know
01:40:39
what he could have Declassified any documents he wanted to when he's president he didn't and now he's trying
01:40:45
to say he mind melded them to be Declassified come on David this stuff is such it's it's it's laughable
01:40:52
but you agree the president the president has an unlimited authority to Declassified documents right of course
01:40:57
so he didn't do it through the process he wanted but who's to say that he didn't do it no
01:41:03
his attorney general said he didn't do it his White House counsel said it is he did it so who's to say his view he
01:41:10
Declassified other documents the appropriate way these he just thought about declassifying therefore they were
01:41:15
Declassified come on I agree it's a bad argument but I don't know it's not a bad one David will make
01:41:22
it anyway David it's not a bad argument it's not an argument come back anytime you want Chris it's not you gotta sit in
01:41:28
I think you got to sit in I mean look I you know I I will tell you guys like I am very sympathetic to Executive
01:41:36
Authority I've been a governor of the state that has the strongest constitutional
01:41:41
governorship in America but you gotta follow the law when the law empowers you to the extent that the
01:41:50
United States president is empowered that should be enough you shouldn't have to act outside the law and here's why he
01:41:57
did it he didn't do it to sell the documents he didn't do them to give them to some
01:42:02
foreign power he did them to show off look what I have look I'm still really the president this is the real core
01:42:13
problem with him David but doesn't this pale in comparison to the crimes of the Biden family I mean
01:42:19
I don't know do we have time to talk about the two billion dollars that Jared Kushner has gotten from the Saudis and
01:42:28
why he got that money is it because he's such an expert investor the guy who bought 666 Fifth Avenue and nearly
01:42:36
bankrupted his entire company I mean he's actually a pretty smart guy I mean oh yeah oh no he's a genius he's
01:42:44
an absolute genius David and that's why the Saudis gave him two billion dollars he was out of office
01:42:57
collecting money David what why would a president of the United States when he has somebody like Mike Pompeo as
01:43:06
his secretary of state who's been a congressman a West Point graduate member of the military
01:43:13
CIA director Secretary of State why is he sending Jared Kushner over grift to negotiation results she got the
01:43:22
Abraham records wait no no he gets the oh so now we're not giving Pompeo the credit for the
01:43:30
Abraham Accords it's Jared Kushner look in the end Abraham Accords were a good idea or a
01:43:37
bad idea great idea great I want you to give Kushner credit he was totally involved no no he's involved
01:43:44
congratulations why was he set in the first place because of his extensive his extensive
01:43:50
foreign policy experience apartment buildings in New Jersey that's what he was doing so look
01:44:01
I absolutely believe that as I answered your question very directly before that the only reason Hunter Biden was hired
01:44:08
for these things was to get influence with his father absolutely and I think he should go to jail
01:44:14
but we can't look at the Jared and Ivanka making 40 plus million dollars a year while they were in the white house
01:44:21
getting two billion from the Saudis to invest after they leave the White House and say that's not a grift as well not
01:44:29
to mention the fact that he's spending campaign money to pay his legal fees when he's supposed to be a billionaire
01:44:37
how about you sell the Trump Tower apartment since you don't live there anymore and pay your legal fees with
01:44:42
that or how about sell one of your friggin golf courses to pay your legal fees with that but instead and a 100
01:44:50
average donation from Americans who donated to something called save America which was supposed to fight the steal of
01:44:59
the election is now being spent to pay his legal fees because he took classified documents illegally out of
01:45:05
the White House and by the way that same organization paid Kimberly Guilfoyle 60 Grand to give
01:45:12
a three-minute speech on January 6th and paid 208 thousand dollars to Melania stylist as political strategy she looks
01:45:21
great there's plenty of grift to go around yeah and I'll tell you this the grift is deep the Christie
01:45:26
Administration no member of my family will make money off the fact that I'm president you can't say that about Trump
01:45:32
or Biden okay this has been an amazing all right I have no voice final question when you did this karaoke
01:45:48
with David freyberg yes did you do Thunder Road Living on a Prayer Rosalita what was the song or did you guys I
01:45:58
don't remember duet I don't remember which song David and I did together but I did do Thunder Road carry on
01:46:05
fantastic in in that small bar in that little town in Idaho beep event like I do
01:46:12
also remember there being um a karaoke on a Backstreet Boys song oh that's definitely Freeburg yeah and I
01:46:23
don't think Freiburg was in that one I don't think do you remember David which song we did yeah and listen I remember
01:46:34
yeah there's got to be one in there listen uh Governor we really appreciate you coming on uh we wish you great
01:46:40
success congratulations on New Hampshire and uh really really thank you um did a
01:46:46
great job today thank you for being so forthright thank you guys for giving me the uh look I love the opportunity to be
01:46:52
able to go into more depth about this in anything other than UFOs so it's really
01:46:57
good really good oh wait we have another hour of UFO questions I would really encourage you to to
01:47:04
spread this Gospel of the most thoughtful way to beat back corruption is something like zero-based budgeting
01:47:11
across the entire front area I like that too that was a great one nobody says it
01:47:15
people are I think RFK and Vivek scratch it but I think you could nail it if you take it and want to run with it
01:47:23
and there's just a lot of money that's probably sloshing on the sidelines that needs to get reallocated I'm sure you
01:47:32
saw how viral Jon Stewart's interview with the under secretary of defense for Budget went that was an incredible
01:47:37
interview and obviously it hits a nerve with a lot of people so it's a really important point it speaks a lot to the
01:47:43
broader issue nice well I'm I'm glad to be here I'm I'm I'm I'm happy that I did
01:47:49
not take my son's briefing um but I can guarantee you that he's going to be listening he's very stressed
01:47:54
he's actually he works for the New York Mets he's down in Dominican Republic today and he calls me from the Dr and he
01:48:01
said is today the all-in day and I said yes today's the day he goes call me right afterwards so he's gonna tell him
01:48:08
what are you gonna I'm gonna tell him it was great we had a great two hours and he's gonna enjoy listening to it and
01:48:13
yeah now anytime you guys want me back I'm back thank you very much I'm on the board
01:48:19
there too yeah I think that's a little bit of a problem that may be worse than zero-based budgeting I don't know at
01:48:25
least the next look like they built a nice Foundation here don't give up on the Mets yet wait till next time you're
01:48:30
not giving up we'll get there all right two hours with the governor going around
01:48:35
the horn here Friedberg uh your thoughts after two hours with Governor Christie where was he strong where do you
01:48:42
disagree with him what do you think of his presidency after two hours of intimate discussion here on all in
01:48:47
podcasts I don't know if I've got a huge shift in opinion he's a very personable guy he
01:48:55
has a good command of the the subject he's got good experience running a state so those are good qualifying criteria
01:49:01
obviously this is a very challenging race for him I'm not sure if he hits any zingers that really helps accelerate him
01:49:07
past the momentum that Jose has and obviously the lead that Trump has with the you know Conservative Party Support
01:49:15
with DeSantis so it seems like it's going to be a tough campaign and a tough race for him and I'm not sure he brings
01:49:21
anything today that shows how he's going to kind of get ahead of this problem so
01:49:25
that's the campaign let's talk about for you if you were to contrast him to other
01:49:30
Republican candidates DeSantis Halley Vivek where does he fall for you personally yeah I remain of the concern
01:49:39
that there's a giant meteor hitting a fiscal meteor hitting the United States okay and everyone's
01:49:45
talking about a lot of other stuff okay and it's the don't look up documentary to me okay and he's the most attuned to
01:49:52
that in your mind or Nikki he has a good point of view I think his alignment around keeping military spending and you
01:49:59
know this this discussion around corruption it's it's such a a micro problem relative to the macro
01:50:05
condition again 31 of U.S debt coming up for refinancing this year uh it's going
01:50:12
to be you know and we're already seeing by the way this year interest expense on
01:50:16
the debt is greater than the military spending if you had to pick uh two candidates on the Republican party that
01:50:22
were most intriguing to you for your vote which too would they be I'm going to skip that question for now okay
01:50:28
chamoth I'll go to you post this to our discussion he he I thought he was great I'm curious how you thought were the
01:50:35
strong points in this discussion uh and then I guess we can talk about his campaign
01:50:40
as Freeburg just did but then we could also talk about how he resonates with you and in terms of getting your vote
01:50:46
maybe where he sits I don't think my opinion has changed much before or after I mean I think that he's a he's
01:50:54
a very personable Charming guy but I'm not sure that he says anything that's different from
01:51:01
The Establishment wing of the Republican party and I think that the winning candidate whether I agree with it or not
01:51:08
is irrelevant at this point but the formula has been laid bare for everybody to see and I think that you have to have
01:51:14
radical ideas and so when you think about the people that are getting the most attention on
01:51:20
both the Democratic and the Republican side but they're essentially pushing back on
01:51:25
is all of this Orthodoxy and if he really wants to win he has to embrace being unorthodox and heterodox
01:51:36
and he doesn't have enough heterodoxical policies to cut through so he just cannot win
01:51:43
as a practical matter so if he Embraces those heterodoxies Because he believes in them
01:51:49
he's he has a chance but if he doesn't it's going to be Trump versus Vivek so if uh it winds up being Biden
01:51:58
Vivek Trump Christy Nikki in this sort of like final you know race towards Finish Line which
01:52:06
two candidates do you find most appealing right now not not saying you'll vote for them but which two are
01:52:11
resonating with chamath polyhapatia most I'm still pretty open-minded I haven't decided I know who doesn't resonate with
01:52:18
me okay tell me is DeSantis okay so DeSantis is off the table everybody else is still yeah I mean and I was very
01:52:24
clear early on that his campaign was DOA and I think that that's probably just gonna he's going to have a
01:52:30
a withering kind of embarrassing end to the campaign unfortunately for him but I think the
01:52:37
the heterodoxical rhetoric is going to get ramped up both by RFK and by Vivek and I think it's going
01:52:45
to put a lot of pressure and by Trump and I think it's going to put a lot of pressure on Biden and it's going to put
01:52:50
a lot of pressure on the other republican nominees uh to come through the noise here it's an interesting point
01:52:54
to moth because if the chorus becomes this heterodox point of view it's it looks really bad
01:53:02
Biden is almost in this truly defensive mode because then you have multiple parties speaking similarly about the
01:53:08
establishment I think there's a very good chance that Biden's son he's indicted this week he's in jail by the
01:53:14
time the election comes around which I think also speaks very poorly to the risk that there is some clear
01:53:24
links of corruption that come out and I think that that's going to put the election under severe pressure
01:53:33
and I think you can you can bet that every single Republican Mega donor is going to come out of the woodwork to
01:53:41
fund the Super PAC that's going to blast the airwaves all across the country with
01:53:45
that content so that's I think a foregone conclusion if it looks like there is fire where there looks right
01:53:53
now is smoke and if David Weiss hacks this decisively and it moves the trial quickly which I suspect it will this is
01:54:01
all bad news for Biden and so you know you have that on that side the Republicans have the red meat that they
01:54:08
need the heterodoxy on both sides is what's getting all the attention so you know I think I think what Donald
01:54:15
Trump did in hindsight was really break the glass on being able to say the things you couldn't say and that
01:54:22
will now be the formula for candidates to win yeah and just for folks who haven't been watching the news
01:54:29
um justice department is believed to indict Hunter on the gun charges this month I think they're still
01:54:34
investigating the potential corruption where there's smoke maybe there's fire and if it leads to Biden and so this
01:54:42
whole race could be totally flipped upside down at any moment same with Trump and his induction gun charges are
01:54:47
nothing charged just so everyone understands what that is when he applied to get a firearm you know you have to
01:54:53
take you have to check off these check boxes on the form yeah and one of them is I apparently that you don't have a
01:54:59
drug problem yeah and so he lied on that form I guess but that that's the kind of charge that
01:55:07
I I personally don't believe they should be going after him for because I don't think they would prosecute an ordinary
01:55:12
person for that yeah and in his defense Hunter said I have no problem scoring drugs so I don't have a drug problem I
01:55:17
can get them anytime I need them it's one of these weird kind of almost again like a paperwork charge and remember
01:55:23
that what the doj tried to do was a settlement with Hunter Biden where he would plead guilty on that same gun
01:55:31
charge because it's kind of a nothing charge but then buried deep in that settlement was a broad Immunity on all
01:55:37
the foreign lobbying he was doing the Pharaoh act violations and then it came out and the judge said wait a second
01:55:44
like that's too much like what are you doing and they reject the judge rejected the settlement so frankly I view the
01:55:51
charges by the doj on the gun charge as a misdirection of what the real issue is
01:55:56
with Hunter Biden he was running around the world collecting money with being an unregistered foreign agent
01:56:02
foreign lobbyist yeah that's the Crux of the issue is that's the corruption but the point is that's what the doj
01:56:11
should be looking at not these laws that's what they are looking at yes did Hunter use drugs David I think I think
01:56:17
looking at the tax evasion tax fraud charges that is their way of looking at that so I think it's going to come out I
01:56:22
think at this point they're they're looking at both everybody will have the truth if if the bidens are truly not
01:56:29
guilty that will be clearly established now in this process but if he was acting
01:56:34
as an unregistered agent of these foreign governments that is also going to come out and if there were links
01:56:39
between him and his father and Communications that's also going to come out I think that but he hasn't even been
01:56:44
indicted on that yet right yeah I understand I think it takes time I think they will thoughtfully put it together
01:56:50
but I'm not confident about it given that they wanted to give him broad Immunity on those charges I think no but
01:56:56
I think I think David Weiss is under such a microscope right now idea that she doesn't act conclusively here I
01:57:02
think would be a huge problem and then the next president if it's Republican will reopen it so whatever happens here
01:57:08
will need to be definitive and I think the special prosecutor probably understands that at this point yeah so
01:57:13
let's go back to your impressions before we go down the Biden Biden Biden uh Rabbit Hole here
01:57:18
what are your thoughts after two hours with Chris Christie anything change in your outlook on him and then I'm curious
01:57:24
are you still team DeSantis all the way okay so on Christy I like talking to him
01:57:31
more than I thought I was going to um I think he was easy to talk to I think the two hours went by pretty
01:57:37
quickly I think he brought his energy level down to the right place for a podcast I mean it was a little different
01:57:44
than when he's very pugnacious on the debate stage and can kind of grandstand and he you know engaged in a discussion
01:57:51
with us so I thought that was positive the only time his energy really changed was basically in the last five minutes
01:57:57
when he went on to a full-on like Trump diatribe and it was almost like you know
01:58:04
a little bit of TDS kicked in that being said his position on Trump was a little
01:58:08
bit more nuanced than I was expecting first of all he admitted the whole Russia gate thing was total baloney
01:58:14
second he said that with respect to these State charges the Alvin Bragg in New York and the Fannie Willis and
01:58:21
Atlanta those charges should not have been brought yeah I thought that was pretty good I kind of agree with him on
01:58:25
those I I agree with his ass I thought that was intellectually honest did you feel intellectual honesty from him yeah
01:58:30
I think he really believes this yeah third I took a couple of tries by chamoth and then me to to get him to say
01:58:36
this but he said he would not put Trump in jail he's too old for that and I thought that was I I wasn't sure where
01:58:43
he was going to come out on that I didn't know if he was going to say Trump deserves a life sentence who would
01:58:48
pardon him if he was President he said he said I wouldn't pardon him but I commute his sentence he didn't have to
01:58:54
spend time in jail so I thought that was new information and again a more nuanced
01:58:59
view than I was expecting on the documents case he said that Trump ran into the charges which frankly I agree
01:59:05
with I think yeah could have avoided that easily however Christy said he did it for eosyncratic reasons he loves this
01:59:11
box of mementos yeah he didn't really address them there you and I have yeah yeah and you know who else loves their
01:59:18
mementos I have I have a handful of kids under the age of five who love blankets
01:59:22
and yes pacifiers Teddy yeah I would just go a little further and just say listen if he
01:59:29
did this for idiosyncratic reasons rather than nefarious reasons like selling State Secrets then I think you
01:59:35
apply the same standard of prosecution as they did to petrayeus or to Biden himself or the thing you keep missing is
01:59:43
that those people gave those back you keep missing those acts I don't know why you have that blind spot because he
01:59:48
basically said that Trump has an anxiety complex and he su he sells suits with that box of documents that's what he
01:59:54
said Trump the same way as Sandy Berger I mean come on those guys moving on uh the last point was on the
02:00:10
Jack Smith charges where he admitted that Jack Smith has to prove Beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump
02:00:17
knew that his election denial argument was false and I think he pretty much admitted that that would be a very very
02:00:26
hard thing to prove but he said he wanted to wait to see what evidence they had to me that kind of begs the question
02:00:32
of why you bring that case in the first place any event so that's on Trump I think what I saw there was a little bit
02:00:38
of TDS but a more nuanced overall perspective when he got into the details on foreign policy
02:00:44
I think we had a lot of interesting conversation there about the mismanagement of the military-industrial
02:00:51
complex and I think shmoth had some really interesting questions there that then I followed up on and really you
02:00:57
couldn't get him to say anything other than he wouldn't necessarily increase the size of the defense budget until you
02:01:04
did the efficiency survey but he kind of had to be pushed to even get there and what I would just say is that on that
02:01:11
question on military spending combined with the question of Ukraine he pretty much has the standard establishment
02:01:18
Republican position which is the only thing Biden has done wrong is not move aggressively enough on Ukraine that you
02:01:25
know giving mixed messages not being hawkish enough I'm sorry but Biden has had the most hawkish policy on Ukraine
02:01:32
that any president's ever had and the only reason there's been hand ringing about giving them f-16s is because it
02:01:38
could start World War Three and I personally want Biden thinking about that you know so again I think think
02:01:44
this neocon Republican position that involves Chris Christie and Haley and Pence and Mitch McConnell you know
02:01:52
basically the whole Republican establishment they basically believe that Biden who says we need to support
02:01:57
Ukraine for as long as it takes as much as it takes he's still not doing enough I just don't fundamentally buy that
02:02:03
argument you still teams DeSantis here's my view on it so look I I would support
02:02:07
DeSantis I also would support Vivek for for me oh whoa whoa whoa this is new information so you're saying you are now
02:02:14
equally open-minded to the vague and DeSantis it's not equally minded but look for me most
02:02:21
here's the way I divided I divide Candace at this point into acceptable versus unacceptable okay and for me the
02:02:28
number one issue is whether the president the next president will seek to de-escalate or end the Ukraine war or
02:02:34
they will seek to escalate it guys Christie along with all these others by saying that Biden has been too dovish on
02:02:41
Ukraine is effectively saying he wants to do even more on Ukraine so we're not going to take I'm not willing to live
02:02:49
for the next four years on the knife's edge of World War III I don't want so that's what you're doing to put well I
02:02:56
don't want the Sword of War Three camp well no I think that the candidates who said that they would either end or
02:03:04
de-escalate Ukraine or Vivek DeSantis and Trump has said it they're the only three oh and sorry Robert F Kennedy Jr
02:03:11
okay but you're not going to vote for him so that puts you in Vivek well I don't know I mean he might be my
02:03:17
favorite to be honest would you pick him over Trump I would certainly take Kennedy over Trump you would wow this is
02:03:22
incredible for sure breaking news folks this is this is all incredible wow look for me this is the Little Miss test
02:03:28
issue is are you going to escalate or de-escalate the Ukraine war and I think that these hawkish
02:03:35
Republican candidates pose an unacceptable risk of war three what do you think Jason yeah Jason what do you
02:03:40
think I thought he broke your heart there in a couple of places no actually um I don't expect all candidates to line
02:03:46
up with my belief system perfectly obviously it's well spoken obviously he's qualified
02:03:53
I'm looking for a moderate like Freeburg I think the existential crisis of the balance sheet is my top issue I voted
02:03:59
Republican about 25 and Democrats 75 I'm literally a moderate and an independent
02:04:06
and uh right now I really don't think Biden can be president or Trump so that leaves
02:04:11
me with RFK on one side and it leaves me with Nikki Halley and um Christy on the other side and Nikki
02:04:18
Haley and Chrissy are really into balancing the budget and so I'm I'm leaning towards voting Republican if
02:04:24
those are the two candidates now the thing that I think handicapping this election is not being talked about all
02:04:31
that much because we have the Trump Biden rematch taking while they are out of the room is I don't know that Biden
02:04:37
makes it to the starting line nor do I think Trump makes it to the starting line and so that changes everything and
02:04:42
who knows what percentage chance that is I don't think any of us can give it a perfect
02:04:46
uh handicap but let's say that is the case um then I think it's you know there's
02:04:50
there's a lot of lanes open here and I think the election will be once again determined by moderates and I think
02:04:55
women who are still very much upset about the Roe v Wade issue and I think those
02:05:01
two things are going to play a significant role and that's where I think Nikki Halley and Chris Christie
02:05:05
believe it's a state's issue and they're not into the national ban for abortion I think moderates are not
02:05:11
into Biden I think they or I don't think they're going to be into RFK I think they're going to be into Nikki Haley and
02:05:17
I think Nikki Haley could happen and I think Chris Christie would happen so I hope we get Nikki Haley on here because
02:05:21
I don't know her enough but I would like to have that to our discussion so I'm leaning towards Haley Christie if they
02:05:27
make it all right this is Ben another amazing episode of the all-in podcast we went for over two hours enjoy the one
02:05:34
and a half times episode everybody because next week is the all-in summit and we're not going to tape next week so
02:05:39
you get a week off from the Pod while we uh Bank I think like 20 amazing amazing guests
02:05:47
from Ray dalio to Elon Musk to Mr Beast I mean the list of people Gwyneth Paltrow that free version has put
02:05:56
together is extraordinary congratulations to freeberg on a program even better than last year's
02:06:03
program is it unprecedented success here so great great job Friedberg and the team over at the production board
02:06:10
the parties might be fun too I got my tux I'm ready to go we will see you all in Los Angeles or some portion of you
02:06:18
about one percent of you in uh Los Angeles next week sorry for the fomo everybody but Freeburg will be releasing
02:06:24
the episodes on Twitter X and YouTube are the exclusive uh locations so you're not going to get in your podcast feeds
02:06:32
flooded with the 20 talks you gotta go to x follow all in podcasts on x and search all in podcasts on YouTube
02:06:41
you can subscribe and then there's a bell there you put on the alert I think you're going to drop them every day or
02:06:45
every two days Freeburg something in that sort of pace so you got 20 days of content coming at you coming at you for
02:06:51
the dictator himself the Sultan of science David Friedberg chair person of deal in Summit 2023 great job and Rain
02:07:01
Man the architect himself with that incredible Gordon Gekko hair wow looking great sex I am the
02:07:08
Undisputed world's greatest moderator according to the YouTube comments and we'll see you next week bye-bye
02:07:16
we'll let your winners ride Rain Man [Music] we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy
02:07:27
[Music] I'm going [Music] to do it besties [Music] it's like this like sexual tension that
02:07:52
they just need to release somehow [Music] [Music] I'm going all in