00:00:00
you were bloated last night what else is new I said not bloated my God you really
00:00:06
are though you look bloated listen that's coming from you you started to look like Bert and now you're back to
00:00:11
Ernie your face is getting round again all I have to say is hold on a second guys I gotta get a drink is that okay
00:00:16
you guys got a minute for me to get a drink yeah yeah I definitely do I definitely do go ahead hold on a beer no
00:00:22
no um I'm actually you know I've been working on my weight so I'm just gonna pick here I think I have the mocha latte
00:00:27
from Super got and I also have the chocolate shake do you have a recommendation here for me Friedberg
00:00:31
because I'm going to put it in my coffee is mocha on a mocha yeah you can't go wrong thank you double mocha is a win
00:00:38
just on a completely unrelated topic did you happen to invest in super gut Jayco
00:00:43
no no I haven't invest yet but use the promo code oh okay it's been a big part of my
00:00:49
weight loss Journey it's also been a big part of me and Freeburg uh becoming besties and creating a unified block for
00:00:56
all in Summit 2023 so I've got two solid votes I'll be very honest with you if you guys give me a credible plan where
00:01:04
we can maintain the Integrity hold on continue listen to me listen to me listen to me if you if you two idiots
00:01:16
I'm not involved yes you are you clearly are involved with it with this [ __ ] great important vote hold on no continue
00:01:22
I'm writing this and I'm writing it down if you two idiots the two of you have to
00:01:26
do this together because otherwise I'm with David and there's an absolutely got it you two idiots you need to come up
00:01:32
with a plan where we can each make make four million bucks each net then I'll do it four million net okay great
00:01:44
look at jaycal writing that down as as if he respects a contract okay got this got this I signed the [ __ ] car I
00:01:51
signed the contract for Jacob the negotiation begins at the point where there's a signed contract yeah exactly
00:01:57
it's like okay now I'll negotiate with you [Music] [Music] all right everybody the show has started
00:02:19
the four of us are still here by some miracle we're still going after 107 episodes and it's better than ever last
00:02:26
week we were number 12. so mainstream media we'll see you in the top 10. here we go
00:02:33
Twitter files part one part two despite your oppressive conditions yes if I was getting five paid five bucks
00:02:45
for this I'd be on strike right now guys not only are you getting five bucks you're getting a bill for the production
00:02:50
okay here we go how beautiful is it that the same reporters who couldn't stop writing about the oppressive working
00:02:58
conditions that Elon Musk was supposedly creating because he simply wanted the employees to go back to the office and
00:03:04
work hard and if they didn't he'd give them a generous three months severance package yeah those same reporters are
00:03:09
now on strike because the salzburgers are running a click bait Farm over there with oppressive working conditions the
00:03:15
intellectual dishonesty has never been higher in the world honesty yes will the publisher of the
00:03:22
New York Times agree that anybody who isn't happy there can have a voluntary three-month severance package yeah click
00:03:30
this link and do you want to work hard or do you want three month Severance if the New York Times publisher did that
00:03:35
you know it would happen 800 of 1200 people would take the severance of course all right here we go Twitter files have
00:03:43
dropped part one dropped with the legendary award-winning highly respected journalist Matt taibi if you don't know
00:03:50
who he is he is a left-leaning journalist who worked at Rolling Stone and did the best coverage hands down
00:03:58
of the financial crisis and the shenanigans and he held truth to power to that group this is important to note
00:04:03
the second drop was given to Bari Weiss who is a right-leaning independent journalist these are both independent
00:04:12
journalists she previously worked at the New York Times itself now I think we should work backwards
00:04:20
from two to one do you agree yes for sure let's start with the drop that just happened last night yes so last night a
00:04:26
drop happened so here's what happens in Twitter files part two I'm gonna give a basic summary
00:04:32
and then I'm going to give it to sax because he's chomping at the bit we now have confirmation that what the right
00:04:37
thought was happening all along which is a secret silencing system built into the software
00:04:44
of blacklists was tagging right wing conservative voices in the system and these included people like Dan uh
00:04:55
bongino is that you pronounce it yes he was tagged with being on a search Blacklist what that means is you're a
00:05:01
fan of of Dan's who is a former secret service agent who is now a right-wing conservative I could just say
00:05:08
conservative instead of wing a conservative radio host podcast host he was not allowed to be found in search
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engines for some reason Charlie Kirk who is a conservative commentator he was tagged with do not
00:05:22
amplify I guess that means you can't Trend into people's feeds even if they follow you
00:05:27
and then there were people who were banned from the trends Blacklist including a
00:05:33
Stanford professor Jay a did I get it right yes okay I got it right doctor of Stanford
00:05:42
school of medicine and he was not allowed on the trends Blacklist because he had a dissenting opinion a Stanford
00:05:52
Professor had a decision on covet that's turned out to be true and this is where
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the danger comes in because all of these actions were taken without any transparency and they were taken on one
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side of the aisle by people inside of Twitter essentially covertly no ownership of who did it and they never
00:06:16
told the people they gaslit them they could see their own tweets they could use the service but they
00:06:25
couldn't be seen even by their own fans in many cases here sax when you look at that let's just start with that first
00:06:31
piece the shadow Banning as it's called in our industry where you can participate in a
00:06:38
community but you can't be seen are any is there any circumstance under which this tool would make sense for you
00:06:46
to deploy and then what's your general take on what has been discovered last night okay look two more questions yes
00:06:53
let me start with what's been discovered here let me boil it down for you this is
00:06:57
an FTX level fraud except that what was stolen here was not customer funds it was their free speech rights not just
00:07:05
the rights of people like Jay about acharya and Dan bongino to speak but the right of the public to hear them in the
00:07:12
way that they expected okay and you had statement after statement by Twitter Executives like Jack Dorsey like Vegeta
00:07:21
Gotti like you know Yol and others saying we do not Shadow ban and then they also said we certainly this is
00:07:29
their emphasis do not Shadow ban on the basis of political Viewpoint and what the Twitter files show is that is
00:07:36
exactly what they were doing they in the same way that SBF was using FTX and customer funds is his personal
00:07:43
piggy bank they were using Twitter as their personal ideological piggy bank they were going in to the tools and
00:07:50
using the content moderation system these big brother-like tools that were designed to basically put their thumb on
00:07:56
the scale of American democracy and suppress viewpoints that they did not agree with and they did not like even
00:08:02
when even when they could not justify removing content based on their own rules so there are conversations in the
00:08:11
slack that Barry Weiss exposed where for example Libs of tick tock they admit in
00:08:16
the slack that we can't suppress limits of tip talk based on our hay policy Libs
00:08:22
of tick tock hasn't violated it we're going to suppress that account anyway now it's important to note what Libs of
00:08:27
tick tock does this is a great talking point Libs of tick tock finds uh people who are trans
00:08:34
people who are you know maybe not lgbtq and they feature their tick tocks and they mock them on Twitter now this
00:08:45
certainly is Free Speech and the argument from the safety team was by putting all of these together you're
00:08:52
inciting violence towards those people and they said they haven't broken a rule but collectively
00:08:57
they could be in some way targeting those people is there anything fair Friedberg to that statement
00:09:07
that they targeted them by collecting their let's say views that are I'm asking this question for
00:09:14
discussion purposes I'm not giving myself hold on I want free breakfast why can't I finish I'm going to go back to
00:09:19
you spoke for two minutes that's why Friedberg you turned down moderating today sex you could everybody else
00:09:25
yesterday as long as I want and I get interrupted you got two minutes yes let me just finish the SPF analogy okay the
00:09:32
filibuster continues then you can both sides of this don't worry sex while you're speaking let's drop one or two
00:09:37
words on you and then yeah why did people like ADI and Yol deny that they were engaged in Shadow Banning even
00:09:43
though that's clearly what they were doing because they knew that they had an obligation to be stewards of the public
00:09:49
trust they were custodians of public trust they knew they were violating that trust the same way that SBF had a duty
00:09:58
to be custodians of his customers funds they did not Implement their own policy that they said they were implementing
00:10:05
why because they were suppressing accounts that personally offended them that personally they disagreed with and
00:10:11
they wanted to deprive the public of the right to hear okay so now the way that they're justifying this hold on the way
00:10:16
that the media is today justifying it is they're pointing to obscure Provisions in the terms of use around spam accounts
00:10:23
things like that saying oh well the terms of you showed that they had the right to do this this is like the margin
00:10:28
account okay they do not have the right to use these tools in this way okay Jay bhattacharya was not posting spam
00:10:39
Professor it doesn't yes opposed to lockdowns that was the Great Barrington declaration and they
00:10:51
suppressed it what is the justification so now you have to answer my question then sex since you want to talk so much
00:10:57
hold on sax I want you to answer the question then since you are so interested I want him to answer one question then
00:11:04
it's going to you free bird sax should lives of tick tock be able to collect uh trans people uh living their life
00:11:12
making tick tocks put them into a group feed mock them and if those people experience
00:11:23
harassment because of it is that something that Twitter should allow I'm asking you this without giving my
00:11:28
opinion I'm curious your opinion specifically for the libs of tick tock since you opened that door and you
00:11:33
wanted to bring up that very thorny issue go listen so unless there's Tick Tock my understanding of that account is
00:11:39
that they only take videos that have already been made public by another account they're all public they're all
00:11:46
in the public domain and then they repost them sometimes they make a snarky comment but usually they just let them
00:11:51
stand on their own that is not a violation of free speech now the way that I think these Twitter Executives
00:11:58
have interpreted it is that they live in such a bubble and they live in with such
00:12:03
privilege and entitlement that they think that when their point of view gets criticized or challenged that that in
00:12:10
and of itself is harassment that's not that is public debate and they want to make themselves and their points of view
00:12:16
immune to public debate and the way that they do that is that they claim that any
00:12:20
criticism is harassment it's not if in aggregate final final follow-up if an aggregate those people report being
00:12:28
harassed and they have evidence of being harassed what should Twitter do listen if somebody is harassed I'm I'm fine
00:12:34
with taking that down but being publicly criticized or simply retweeted is not harassment okay harassment needs to be
00:12:41
targeted and it needs to be more than just public criticism or even a snarky comment here or there and so you don't
00:12:48
consider a not you know a a daily feed of trans people being uh mocked you don't consider that Target harassment
00:12:57
got it don't listen to me about it listen to Twitter's own slack Files about it they knew that the account that
00:13:04
lives of tick tock was not violating the rules yet they suppressed that they've suspended it six times they knew they
00:13:10
were on Shaky Ground they wanted to do it anyway why because they because you know because people are experiencing
00:13:15
harassment that's why they did it but it is a thorny freedom of speech issue I agree with you I think uh I think sax
00:13:22
has articulated a vision for the product he wanted Twitter to be but I don't think
00:13:31
that's necessarily the product that they wanted to create it's not that Twitter set out at the time or stated clearly
00:13:38
that they were going to be the harbinger of truth and the Free Speech platform for all I think they were really clear
00:13:44
and they have been in their behavior and as you know demonstrated through this stuff that came out which to me feels a
00:13:50
lot like uh we already knew all this stuff this is a bit of a nothing burger that they were curating and they were
00:13:57
editing and they were editorializing other people's content and the ranking of content in the same way that many
00:14:05
other internet platforms do to create what they believe to be their best user experience for the users that they want
00:14:12
to appeal to and I'll say like there's been this long debate and it goes back 20 years at this point on how Google
00:14:19
does ranking right I mean you guys may remember Jeremy stoppelman went to DC and he complained about how Google was
00:14:26
using his content and he wasn't being ranked high enough as Google's own content that was being shoved in the
00:14:31
wrong place and there's a guy who ran kind of he was a spokesperson for the SEO the search engine optimization rules
00:14:39
at Google and it was always the secret at Google how did the search results get ranked and I can tell you it's not just
00:14:46
a pure algorithm that there was a lot of manual intervention a lot of manual work
00:14:49
in fact the manual work gets to be the to the point that they said there's so much stuff that we know is a is the best
00:14:55
content and the best form of content for the user experience that they ranked it
00:15:00
all the way at the top and they called it the one box it's the stuff that sits above the primary search results and
00:15:05
that editorialization ultimately led to a product that they intended to make because they believed it was a better
00:15:10
user experience for the users that they wanted to service and I don't think that
00:15:14
that this is any different than what's happened at Twitter Twitter is not a government agency
00:15:19
they're not a free speech they're not the internet they're a product and the product managers and the people that run
00:15:25
that that product team ultimately made some editorial decisions that said this is the content we do want to show and
00:15:32
this is the content we don't want to show and they certainly did wrap up um you know a bunch of rules that had a
00:15:37
lot of leeway for what they could or couldn't do or they gave themselves a lot of different excuses on how to do it
00:15:42
I don't agree with it it's not the product I want it's not the product I think should exist I think Elon also saw
00:15:49
that and clearly he stepped in and said I want to make a product that is a different product than what is being
00:15:54
created today so none of this feels to me like these guys were the Guardians of the internet and they came along and
00:16:00
they were distrustful they did exactly what they did what a lot of other companies have done exactly what they
00:16:05
set out to do and they editorialized the product for a certain user group and by
00:16:09
the way they never blocked they never edited people's tweets they changed how people's results were showing up in
00:16:15
rankings they showed how viral they would get in the trend box those were in-app features and in-app services this
00:16:21
was not about taking someone's tweet and changing it and people may feel ashamed
00:16:26
and they may feel you know upset about the fact that they were de-ranked uh or they were kind of
00:16:32
quote Shadow banned but ultimately that's the product they chose to make and people have the choice and the
00:16:38
option of going elsewhere and I don't agree with it and it's not the product I want and it's not a product I want to
00:16:43
use and I certainly don't feel happy seeing it but so you want to see products in you want free work to
00:16:48
summarize it you want to see the free market do its job you worked at Facebook Facebook seems to
00:16:54
have done I would say an excellent job with content moderation I think in large part correct me if I'm wrong because of
00:17:00
the real names policy uh but you tell us what you think uh you know when you look
00:17:05
at this and the 15-year history of social media and moderation I think moderation is incredibly
00:17:12
difficult and typically what happens is early on in a company's life cycle and I
00:17:18
I'm going to guess that Twitter and YouTube were very similar to what we did at Facebook and it's very similar to
00:17:24
probably what Tick Tock had to do in the early days which is you have this massive tidal wave of
00:17:30
usage and so you're always on a little bit of a hamster wheel and so you build these very basic tools and you uncover
00:17:38
problems along the way and so I I think it's important to humanize the people that are at Twitter
00:17:46
because I'm not sure that they're these super nefarious actors per se I do think
00:17:50
that they were conflicted I do think that they made some very corrupting decisions but I don't think that they
00:17:56
were these evil actors okay I think that they were folks who against the tidal wave of usage built some brittle tools
00:18:05
built on top of them built on top of it some more and tried to find a way of coping and as scale
00:18:12
increased they didn't have an opportunity to take a step back and reset and I think that that's true for
00:18:17
all of these companies and so you're just seeing it out in the light what's happening at Twitter but don't for a
00:18:23
second think that any other company behaved any differently Google Facebook Twitter bite dance and Tick Tock they're
00:18:30
all the same they're all dealing with this problem and they're all probably trying to do
00:18:34
a decent job of it as best as they know how so what do we do from here is the question okay
00:18:40
the reason somebody needs to do something about this is summarized really elegantly in this Jay
00:18:46
bhattacharya tweet so please Nick just throw it up here so that we can just talk about this
00:18:52
this is why I think that this issue is important critically this is a perfect tweet still trying to process my
00:19:00
emotions on learning that Twitter blacklisted me okay who cares about that here's what matters the thought that
00:19:06
will keep me up tonight censorship of scientific discussion permitted policies like school closures
00:19:13
and a generation of children were hurt now just think about that in a nutshell what was Jay bhattacharya to do maybe he
00:19:22
was supposed to go on Tick Tock and try to sound the alarm Bells through a tick tock maybe he was supposed to go on
00:19:27
YouTube and create a video maybe he was supposed to go on Facebook and you know post into a Facebook group or or do a
00:19:34
news feed post the the the problem is that and the odds are reasonably likely that a lot of
00:19:41
these companies had very similar policies in this example around covet misinformation because it was the CDC
00:19:47
and you know governmental organizations directing you know information rules reaching out to all of these companies
00:19:56
right so we're just seeing an insight into Twitter but the point is it happened everywhere the implication of
00:20:01
suppressing information like this is that a credible individual like that can't spark a public debate
00:20:09
and in not being able to spark the debate you have this building up of errors in the system
00:20:17
and then who gets hurt in this example which is true is like you couldn't even talk about school closures and masking
00:20:24
upfront and early in the system if you had scientists actually debate it maybe what would have happened is we would
00:20:31
have kept the schools open and you would have had less learning loss and you'd have less depression and less over
00:20:36
prescription of you know ritalin and adderall because those are all factual things we can measure today so I think
00:20:42
the important thing to take away from all of this is we've got confirmatory evidence
00:20:47
that whether they're you know these folks under a tidal wave of pressure made some really bad decisions
00:20:55
and the implications are pretty broad reaching and now I do think governments have to
00:21:00
step in and create better guard rails so this kind of stuff doesn't happen I don't buy the whole it's a you know
00:21:07
private company they can do what they want I think that that is too naive of an expectation for how
00:21:13
important these three companies literally are to how Americans consume and process
00:21:20
information to make decisions incredibly well said sax your reaction to your besties I largely agree with what Jamal
00:21:26
said but let's go back to what Freiburg sex I think what freeburg's point of view is is really what you're hearing
00:21:31
now from the mainstream media today which is oh nothing to see here you know that they told us all along
00:21:37
what was happening this was just content moderation they had the right to do this
00:21:41
you're making a big deal over nothing no that's not true go back and look at the
00:21:45
media coverage starting in 2018. article after article said that this idea of Shadow Banning was a right-wing
00:21:52
conspiracy theory that's what they said furthermore Jack Dorsey denied that shadow Banning was happening including
00:21:58
at a congressional hearing I believe under oath so either Eli or he was lied to by his subordinates I actually
00:22:05
believe that the latter is possible I think I don't think it's true with SBF it might be true with Jack because he's
00:22:11
so checked out furthermore you had people again like Vegeta Gotti again tweeting and repeatedly stating we do
00:22:18
not Shadow ban we certainly don't Shadow band on the basis of political Viewpoint
00:22:22
so these people were denying exactly what their critics were saying they were accusing their critics of being
00:22:28
conspiracy theorists now that the thing is proven the mountain of evidence has dropped they're saying oh well this is
00:22:34
old news this was known a long time ago no it was not known a long time ago it was disputed by you and now finally it's
00:22:42
proven and you're trying to say it's not a big deal it is a big deal it's a violation of the public trust and if you
00:22:49
are so proud of your content moderation policies why didn't you admit what you were doing in the first place
00:22:55
that's what I said you feel good that elon's running this business now I mean like the things that you're concerned
00:23:00
about as a user as someone who cares about the Public's access to knowledge uh to opinions uh to free speech this
00:23:10
has got to be a good change right like this has come to light it's clearly going to get resolved everyone's going
00:23:15
to move forward I mean do you think that there's penalties needed for the people
00:23:17
that work there or like what what what's the anger because because no you won like I think look I think we got I think
00:23:24
we basically got extremely lucky yeah that Elon Musk happened to care about free speech and decided to do something
00:23:30
about it and actually had the means to do something about it he's just about the only billionaire who has that level
00:23:37
of means who actually cared enough to take on this battle but are you saying that this is
00:23:42
praise for that but I mean unless Elon can buy every single tech company which he clearly can't I
00:23:50
think you guys are right this is happening a lot of other Technologies we're about to rewrite the government
00:23:55
the United States government is going to make an attempt to rewrite section 230.
00:24:00
I think that what this does is put a very fine point on a comment that Elon actually tweeted out and Nick if you
00:24:06
could find that please that's a very good tweet where he said going forward you will be able to see if you were
00:24:12
Shadow banned you were able to see if you were de-boosted why and be able to appeal and I think that that concept
00:24:20
to be very honest with you should be enshrined in law and I think that should be part of the section 230 rewrite and
00:24:28
all of these media companies and all of these social media companies should be subject to it and the reason is because
00:24:35
it ties a lot of these Concepts together and says look you can build a service you're a private
00:24:41
company make as much money as you want but we're going to have some connective tissue back to the fundamental
00:24:47
underpinnings of the Constitution which is the framework under which we all live and we're going to
00:24:53
transparently allow you to understand it and I think that's really reasonable make that a legal expectation of all
00:24:58
these organizations the companies the companies will love it because I think it's super hard for you
00:25:05
to be in these companies and they probably are like take this responsibility off my plate it's just
00:25:10
very simple this is a there's really four problems that occurred here number one there was no transparency the people
00:25:18
who were Shadow banned taken out of search Etc they did not know if they were told and it was clear to users we
00:25:27
could have a discussion about was that a fair judgment or not in the cases we've
00:25:31
seen so far from Bari Weiss's reporting in the Twitter files part duh it's very clear that these were not justifiable
00:25:38
number two these were not evenly enforced it's very clear that one side because we don't
00:25:46
have one example of an a person on the left being censored when we if we do then we
00:25:53
could put balls and Strikes together and we could say how many people on one side
00:25:56
versus how many people on the other it's pretty clear what happened here because
00:25:59
these all occurred with a group of people working at Twitter which is 96 or 97 percent left leaning the statistics
00:26:08
are clear number three the shadow Banning and the search Banning and I think this is something we
00:26:14
talked about previously chamoth it feels very underhanded this was your point if
00:26:19
we're going to block people they should be blocked and they should know why the fourth piece of this which is absolutely
00:26:26
infuriating and this is a discussion that myself Saxon and um Elon have had many times about this moderation and I'm
00:26:34
not speaking out of school now because he's now very public with his position and you know his position he came to on
00:26:39
his own it's not like this is sax and I you know coming up these positions this is why Elon bought
00:26:45
the business if you really want to intellectually uh test your thinking on this and I am a
00:26:52
moderate who's left-leaning I can tell you there's a simple way for anybody who is debating the validity of the concerns
00:27:00
here imagine Rachel Maddow or Ezra Klein or whoever your favorite left-leaning pundit is was Shadow Band by a group of
00:27:09
right-wing moderators who were acting covertly and without any transparency how would you feel if Maddow reporting
00:27:17
on you know uh all the Russian coordination with Trump's campaign did this or Ezra Klein with whatever topics
00:27:26
he covers and you will very quickly find yourself infuriated and you should then intellectually as we
00:27:33
say on this program steel Manning if you argue the other side it's infuriating for either side to experience this and
00:27:39
that is what the 230 change needs to be chamoth you're exactly correct if you make a an action it should be
00:27:46
listed on the person's profile page and on the tweet and if you click on the question mark you should see when the
00:27:52
action was taken by who you know which department maybe maybe not the person so they they get personally attacked and
00:27:58
then what the resolution to it is this has been banned because it's targeted harassment this can be resolved in this
00:28:04
way then everybody's Behavior would steer towards whatever the stated purpose of that social network is you
00:28:12
can get better Behavior by making the rules clear by making the rules unclear and making it unfair you create this
00:28:20
insane situation go ahead chamoth and that's why I'm infuriated about it I think you have to take it one step
00:28:26
further to really do justice to why this should be important to everybody and I do think this school example it really
00:28:33
matters to me like we have like I don't know now we know what the counter factual is which which
00:28:39
is that we have I mean we've relegated our children to a bunch of years of really complicated
00:28:46
relearning and learning that they never had to go through because of all the learning laws they gave them but like
00:28:52
what if Jay bhattacharya who's I mean like you can't be you know have a higher sort of role in society in terms of you
00:28:59
know population credentials I mean imagine if if you know there was a platform where he could have actually
00:29:05
said this and that you know people would have clamored and said you know what you
00:29:08
and fauci need to get to the bottom of this or where legislators could have seen it and said you know what before we
00:29:14
make a decision like this maybe hey fauci go talk to Jay because he's a Stanford Prof he's probably not
00:29:20
an idiot why does he think that or maybe let's convene you know an actual group of 20 or 30 scientists and the fact that
00:29:28
this one version of thinking about things was deemed so heterodoxical it is just such a good example they shut down
00:29:36
an important conversation you know that the decision was so wrong and the damage
00:29:41
was so severe so we know what happened by suppressing that speech and that's one example well it's in in my in my
00:29:48
estimation it is the Silver Bullet example that cleans through all of this other stuff because you know I don't
00:29:53
really care if Rachel Maddow has your client who the hell cares this is important stuff because it affects
00:29:58
everybody irrespective of your political persuasion and what editorial you want to read sure math what if the
00:30:03
investigation into the Catholic church and the abuses that occurred there somebody said oh this person it needs to
00:30:09
be shut down and then children are molested for another decade by the way we have an
00:30:13
example of that Sinead O'Connor came out on SNL you can look it up for if you're
00:30:17
under 40 years old and said fight the Real Enemy she ripped up a picture of the Pope because of the scandals there
00:30:22
she was excommunicated she was canceled at that time one of the first people to be canceled because she spoke truth to
00:30:28
power what if somebody an investigative journalist at the New York Times the Boston Globes are in the movie Spotlight
00:30:33
those are the people who broke the story of the Catholic church if somebody came
00:30:37
in and the Catholic Church put pressure on a social network he said hey you can't put this stuff up here you can't
00:30:41
have this discussion here's here's another example why are we shutting down discussions in America remember the
00:30:47
Vietnam papers because because Jake how the media the media does not value transparency anymore if you go back and
00:30:52
look at the way the media portrays itself like in the movie The Post which is about the revelations about the
00:30:58
Catholic church or you go back to All the President's Men what the media surprised and what they congratulated
00:31:05
themselves on was first of all EX transparency and exposing the lives of powerful people well that is exactly
00:31:12
what has happened here the lies of the powerful group of people who were running Twitter policy and suppressing
00:31:19
one side of the debate has been exposed and the media is treating it with a yawn like there's
00:31:24
nothing to see here why because they were complicit in this they were complicit in suppressing the views of
00:31:30
people like Jay bhattacharya they were complicit in choosing the views of fauci and the elite on covet and so they have
00:31:37
no interest now in bringing making in making what's happened here at Twitter fully transparent I have to own it I
00:31:44
think by the way just so just a quick correction there I think sax when you said the post Washington Post Watergate
00:31:49
Spotlight exactly I'm not even thinking about Spotlight sorry it was Main Event okay but like but the post is another
00:31:55
example that that movie was about another event like this which could have been easily suppressed in today's world
00:32:01
much harder there which was the Pentagon papers and in that world you know there
00:32:06
was an immense amount of pressure that the government put on the Washington Post but then they said you know what
00:32:11
we're going with it and they still published it and it created a Groundswell of support to really
00:32:15
re-examine the Vietnam War and it had a huge impact but could you imagine this time around which is like hey guys
00:32:20
there's going to be some kind of misinformation you know these Pentagon papers are not real it's it's coming
00:32:25
from the Russians suppress it and nobody could it's so much easier now to run this plane what journalists need
00:32:31
to realize is that today's conspiracy theories are tomorrow's Pulitzer prizes on to you sex
00:32:38
not in the current media environment they work for these uh corporations and they don't get rewarded for telling the
00:32:45
truth oh no they they're going for pulitzers trust me they are but what they need to do is start thinking short
00:32:51
term and think long term anytime there's a conspiracy theory you must give it some validity and say is there any truth
00:32:58
here because it could in fact be a scandal that's being covered up they're involved in the cover-up right
00:33:06
now this is a cover-up I agree I'm in agreement with you let's bring the first batch of Twitter files into the
00:33:12
conversation the one that mataibi exposed what he did was confirm that a completely True Story by the New York
00:33:19
Post about Hunter Biden that came out a month before the election was suppressed
00:33:22
by Twitter Executives including at the behest of you know of of FBI agents and uh former Security State officials so
00:33:32
this has now been exposed there was no legitimate basis for suppressing that story it was true it was a respect to
00:33:39
publication they did it anyway this is election interference you know the same people who Pride themselves on
00:33:47
strengthening democracy are engaged in this wide scale censorship of one side of the political
00:33:53
debate including of true stories for an election and then they puff out their chest and say we're protecting democracy
00:33:59
they're not protecting democracy they're interfering with democracy they're interfering with the Public's right to
00:34:03
know and then we look at a country like China and we say we're so much better than
00:34:08
them because they've got this problem over there where the state and big Tech are colluding to create a big
00:34:14
brother-like system well what is this what are these tools that have been exposed one person is a big brother like
00:34:21
system okay yeah but just you have to I know you want to make it like an equivalency it's less than a one percent
00:34:27
equivalency because in our society we can have moments like this and we can have investigations so just to put it in
00:34:33
person I don't look I think I don't think we're equivalent but what I'm saying is that this is very much like a
00:34:39
big brother social credit system alarm Bells should be going off just we had this one idiosyncratic
00:34:50
billionaire who believes in free speech if he didn't decide to take this on we would never have known this stuff okay
00:34:56
tell me what happened in between these two things there is an attorney at uh Twitter and under the details of this
00:35:04
uh right okay it does not work for the Twitter Corporation I do not speak for the Twitter Corporation sax does not
00:35:09
work for the Twitter Corporation and does not speak for it but there was in between these two drops something that
00:35:13
happened yes so basically what was discovered and this is all just publicly reported is the former FBI lawyer named
00:35:21
Jim Baker had now become Deputy general counsel at Twitter and this guy Jim Baker is like the zelig of the whole
00:35:30
Russian collusion hoax he was involved in the uh in the fisa warrants that were that the FBI applied to the fisa courts
00:35:37
that had all the errors and Emissions he was involved in the alpha Bank hoax he was the guy that that Perkins uh Coe
00:35:45
lawyer assessment was feeding this like phony uh phony scam 2 and he I don't think he was officially sanctioned but
00:35:55
basically he was asked to leave the FBI and then lo and behold where does he land at Twitter
00:36:02
and he is involved in their content moderation policies I think what it shows is How Deeply intertwined our big
00:36:09
tech companies have become with the security state now how did this get exposed well
00:36:16
Barry Weiss was basically putting forward document requests for this for the latest batch of Twitter files and
00:36:23
she wasn't getting anything back and she's like what's going on here and the guy who's giving her the files is his
00:36:29
name is Jim and she's like well wait like wait Jim Jim who and she finds out wait Jim Baker
00:36:35
wait that Jim Baker the New York Post had a long story about this guy and so it was discovered that the guy
00:36:43
who was curating the Twitter files was this former operative of the FBI who was involved in the Russian collusion
00:36:51
hoax and then was involved in their their Blacklist decisions so in any event once this came out
00:37:00
Twitter fired him and then you know Barry apparently received all these files that are now the the second batch
00:37:08
of the Twitter files and just to be clear that's not James Baker if you're you know thinking it's the
00:37:14
former right and Cabinet member not James Baker this is Jim Baker who's a different person right but a lot of
00:37:21
people are wondering well how could this have been missed listen he's an FBI yeah
00:37:25
these guys don't want to be found I mean they they this is some people call it you know the permanent Washington
00:37:30
establishments some people call it the Deep State the administrations come and go the people who work in Washington
00:37:36
stay there forever and they can simply effectuate policy by outlasting everybody else and clandestinely
00:37:43
implementing what they believe and they've become a constituency of their own that exercises power like a
00:37:49
praetorian guard in Washington so in any event this guy is an expert at Bowl weavling himself into the bureaucracy
00:37:57
great praetorian guard bully you're yes when they finally rooted this this mole out of the FBI he bow
00:38:11
evils himself into another powerful bureaucracy what is that word like Burrows like Burrows like that so
00:38:25
he digs his way into the Twitter bureaucracy to the point where he isn't even found and then somehow he has put
00:38:32
himself in the position to be intermediating the Twitter files can you believe this
00:38:39
so once once it was discovered Roman army that served as personal bodyguards and intelligence agents the
00:38:45
praetorian guard okay got it well you understand what happened is is that the pritarian guard originated because they
00:38:51
were to defend the life of the emperor and that's what people are that then they became so powerful that
00:38:57
uh that whoever bribed the praetorians would become emperor and then finally the last step is that the praetorians
00:39:03
themselves would pick the emperor and whoever basically led the praitarian guard would be the next emperor
00:39:09
at any event I mean we're not we're not at that point yet but the point is look the point is that these Security State
00:39:15
officials have power that they should not have Okay that's the bottom line they should not be involved in our
00:39:24
elections in this way they should be completely non-partisan and non-political they should just do their
00:39:30
jobs as law enforcement officials but we know from the hunter Biden story that a
00:39:35
very important piece of this was the pre-bunking that the FBI went to Facebook and Twitter and social networks
00:39:41
and said be on the lookout for a story about Hunter Biden it is Russian disinformation and they Prime these
00:39:48
social networks to suppress that story when it came out that was something they never should have done and they knew
00:39:53
they knew the story was not fake they knew it was not Russian discrimination because they had the laptop in their
00:39:58
possession since 2019. well okay that has not the Providence of the um laptop is still being reviewed In fairness and
00:40:05
they're still going to hold on you're wrong and there is an investigation going on of Hunter Biden you all also
00:40:09
have to put the context in here and please let me finish there is a context here of there was massive election
00:40:15
interference going on both sides of the aisle Republicans Democrats all wanted to see the Russian interference and the
00:40:22
Ukrainian interference and Trump's encouraging the Ukraine and the Republican the the Russians to interfere
00:40:28
in elections everybody was on high alert and that happened to drop uh like it was announced 30 days before
00:40:34
and it dropped 10 days before the election so everybody was on high alert and I agree
00:40:39
that's why it was the perfect it should have been done it should have been done properly
00:40:44
they should have said they should have come out publicly and say we don't know the Providence of this we could be
00:40:49
hacked it might not be hacked Jason let's wait and see we have to reserve Justice let me tell you what happened
00:40:55
let me just tell you what happened okay so they make sure you Source this I will
00:40:59
so look it's all in the New York Post okay they've done oh great no it nobody has refuted it nobody is refuted it
00:41:07
no let me just get let me just get this on the record here so from the post the FBI was given the laptop in 2019 by the
00:41:16
lab store owner those guys have forensics they have cyber experts they knew the laptop was real we know it's
00:41:23
real now nobody questions that in fact the FBI has admitted that the laptop was real and that the honor buying files are
00:41:29
real nobody disputes that okay but what they did before the election is they use
00:41:34
this excuse of Russian disinformation to discredit the story before it even came
00:41:38
out but they had no business getting involved in the story that way they simply didn't they should have stayed
00:41:44
out of it completely I don't I don't understand how you can possibly justify that yeah I mean I
00:41:48
think we do have to look at the context of that time period when Hillary's emails were hacked and we had a problem
00:41:53
that's a perfect excuse I will finish the sentence and we had a president which you will agree Are Presidents and
00:42:00
presidential candidates should not be encouraging foreign powers to hack their uh their adversaries
00:42:06
with that answer my question do you agree that president you're still wrapped up on this you
00:42:20
can't let it again you personally attack me you don't answer the question that's
00:42:22
fine we'll move on you can't be intellectually honestly the audience knows you're not being
00:42:27
intellectually you don't even know what you're talking about if you could answer
00:42:30
the simple question should presidents encourage foreign powers to hack their adversaries then you would be being
00:42:36
intellectually dishonest I am absolutely disappointed that you will not answer that simple question it's an obvious yes
00:42:43
it's an obvious yes but of course but I don't really believe that happened because you know Trump's going to win
00:42:49
the primary let's keep going listen I I don't I've said so many times in the show that he's not my candidate I
00:42:58
don't know what you're talking about you're going to win what you're doing right now is like
00:43:03
delusional you're going back to some throwaway comment he made it a rally in 2016. it's got nothing absolutely
00:43:09
nothing to do with this story and the fact you're even bringing it up is like pure TDS and I don't know what wasting
00:43:15
time instead of answering a question that's your Technique is to call me names instead of answering the question
00:43:22
I want to unmody the waters I want to make one more time another technique that I'm muddying the water so I'm not
00:43:27
budding the words let's move on I want to make one final Point okay I'll make a final Point
00:43:33
there's no letter listen there was a letter with this Hunter Biden thing this is 2020 election Jason we're not going
00:43:39
back two elections ago I wanted to talk about the most recent one okay fine you had Clapper you had Comey you had 50 of
00:43:45
these Security State officials they write a letter saying that the hunter Biden story has all the Hallmark works
00:43:52
of Russian deformation they claimed that it was Russian inspiration when it wasn't they knew it wasn't and it was
00:43:58
the same story that the FBI was telling uh Twitter and it was the same story that these Twitter Executives were
00:44:03
indulging it even though they all knew or had reason to know it wasn't true and they suppressed the New York Post story
00:44:10
anyway I don't know why you're bringing up this Trump stuff it has nothing to do
00:44:14
with the real issue here the hold on a second the real issue is this does social media have the right to suppress
00:44:21
true stories put out by our media before the month before an election yes or no I will answer your question yes or no
00:44:31
and you will not answer mine because you're being intellectually dishonest yes we should know we should not
00:44:36
suppress news stories if it was and I will argue both sides if it was Snowden if it was the Pentagon papers if it's
00:44:42
Hunter Biden's laptop taking out the sex stuff which we both agree on or if it is uh Russia and uh Ukraine
00:44:50
where your presidential candidate at the time Trump asked zelenski to find dirt on
00:44:58
Biden before the election and he asked the Russians to hack Hillary's email and they did that and they released it 10
00:45:04
days before the election that is facts that happened and that is that's not what this one you said you would let me
00:45:10
speak and you will let me see your money in the waters no stop interrupting me and stop insulting me I will say my part
00:45:17
you said yours and then we will move on the fact is Trump encouraged hacking of other
00:45:26
candidates and he did it twice in a four-year period back-to-back elections we need to be on higher alert when you
00:45:32
have a republican candidate Trump doing something so absolutely treasonous story this is why it was a perfect cover
00:45:43
story is because the trees in this behavior let's move on I I don't think it was a perfect phone
00:45:50
call I think it was Shenanigans there were lots of shenanigans hold on I'm not defending
00:45:56
anything Trump did okay I don't feel the need okay I never defended it but here but the deal is that you're letting your
00:46:03
TDS I don't justify he's crazy you're letting you're you're allowing this Russian deformation to be a cover story
00:46:11
I don't think post should have been blocked you're you're you're misconception wasn't even bringing this
00:46:16
up under which the car the reason I'm bringing it I agree that the person did a great cover story that's your
00:46:24
interpretation the context also is everybody was on high alert waiting for a hack to drop and in fact a hack
00:46:31
dropped 10 days before you have okay we found out subsequently was a hacked they knew at the point Twitter
00:46:39
and Facebook did not know Twitter and Facebook didn't know that's the point you you go back to the Twitter files the
00:46:48
first drop Jim Baker hold on a second Jim Baker and Vijaya Gotti said okay that there were
00:46:55
in a lot of internal questions about whether that that honor buying story could be justified under the Hacked
00:47:01
policy okay and there were many legitimate questions raised internally about whether they could maintain that
00:47:08
party line and the emerging view was that they could no longer maintain that line and still Gotti and Jim Baker said
00:47:15
no we will maintain the idea that this was hacked information until proven otherwise
00:47:20
even though it was not hacked it was a New York Post story okay agree to disagree let's move on why are you
00:47:26
bringing up all this like irrelevance the audience and the other besties want us to move on so let's move on China
00:47:31
ends most zero coveted rules and Iran might be abolishing its morality police news broke uh in the past week on
00:47:38
Wednesday China's Health authorities overhauled its zero coveted policy and announced a 10-point national plan that
00:47:44
scrapped most health code tracking and also they're rolling back their Mass testing and this allowed many uh
00:47:51
positive cases too just simply quarantine at home like we were doing I guess a year ago now and uh they're
00:47:58
limiting some of these uh lockdowns this all comes from a Foxconn letter which we don't know the cause causation here
00:48:08
but we don't know that's why I just said we don't know cause and correlation here
00:48:11
give give us some perspective here trema well I just think it's kind of ridiculous to
00:48:18
assume that the second largest economy in the world pivots based on one letter from one CEO so I know that that's how
00:48:27
the Western describe the letter please yeah well apparently what happened was Terry guo
00:48:32
who's colloquially known as Uncle Terry who's the CEO of Foxconn wrote a letter that essentially said you know if we
00:48:38
don't figure out a way to get out of these Panda this this lockdown process we're going to lose
00:48:44
um you know our leadership in the global supply chain and apparently that jolted
00:48:49
the central Planning Commission to realize that they needed to you know get out of these lockdowns I think it's
00:48:54
something different which is I think this has been part and parcel of a very focused and dedicated plan
00:49:02
baiji phase one was to consolidate power phase two was to get through November and to basically get reappointed for
00:49:11
life and dispel any other you know Rivals that he actually had and now phase three is just to reopen
00:49:19
the economy again so this guy can basically sit on top of the second largest economy in the world
00:49:25
so I think this is sort of a natural uh flow of things the other part of it which I think is
00:49:31
being underreported is I think that the way in which they did it was less responsive in my opinion to a letter
00:49:38
from Uncle Terry but was more responsive to the fact that there are people on the
00:49:42
ground and I think that these guys are getting very sophisticated and understanding how to give the Chinese
00:49:48
people some part of what they want so that they're roughly happy enough to keep moving forward and I'm not going to
00:49:55
morally judge whether it's right or wrong but it's just a comment on what the gameplay and The Game Theory seems
00:50:00
to be coming from the leadership of China so it says I think this is it's it's it's good for the Chinese people and the
00:50:08
real question is what will it mean for the U.S economy if these guys get their um get their economy going again we
00:50:15
talked about this previously but this is a good example of the autocrat not necessarily being absolute
00:50:25
uh in in their Authority and the sense that I think we get at this point coming out of China is that there was enough
00:50:35
dissent from the populace on the lockdown and the experience of the lockdowns and we can all go online and
00:50:40
see the videos of Steel bars being put on doors to keep people in their apartment buildings and people screaming
00:50:46
and buildings being on fire people can't escape the buildings how much of that was true or not and riots in the street
00:50:52
and people fighting with the covet testers how much of it is true or not we don't really know
00:50:58
but it certainly seems to indicate that there was enough dissent and enough unrest that in order to stay in power
00:51:04
the CCP had to take action and they had to shift their position and shift their tone and I think it's a really important
00:51:11
moment to observe that sometimes the CCP um and you know perhaps even we can extend this into other autocratic
00:51:20
regimes that we think are absolute in their Authority and their Empower and their power
00:51:25
perhaps are necessarily influenced by the people that they are there to govern and that they are
00:51:32
you know uh ruling over and that while we don't think about these places as democracies
00:51:39
perhaps they're not entirely the traditionally defined autocracy that there is the an influence that the
00:51:46
people can have and maybe we see the same change happening in Iran with young people and a population
00:51:52
that's more modern that's growing and swelling in size that doesn't want to accept some of the traditional norms and
00:51:59
the traditional laws and you know maybe that will kind of start to resonate around the world
00:52:04
that the internet is starting to do what everyone hoped and wanted it to do which
00:52:09
is the democratization of information the democracation of seeing other people's conditions and seeing what the
00:52:14
rest of the world is and is like gives the populace the ability to rise up and to say this is what we want because we
00:52:22
know that there are better things out there and these autocratic regimes have to start to shift slightly and over time
00:52:28
maybe that has a real impact here's a specific statistic and chart for everybody the demographics of uh Iran
00:52:34
are incredibly um notable if you look at this chart now for those of you listening it just
00:52:42
shows people by age and how many what percentage of the population they are or actually the raw numbers of the
00:52:48
population as you can see it's basically like a pair uh you have very few old people and you have a lot of people in
00:52:54
their 20s and younger and so young people I don't know Jason it's really 40s and 30s is really yeah okay so 40s
00:53:02
30s uh you don't have the geriatric population that you see in other countries like Japan and so the
00:53:09
demographics of Iran are extremely uh weighted towards younger people Millennials gen xers and younger and uh
00:53:18
they have vpns virtual private networks they can see everything happening uh in the Free World
00:53:25
uh versus let's say closed societies and so I think that's what gives me a lot of
00:53:30
Hope is that these countries are going to have to evolve because young people are seeing how the rest of the world
00:53:34
lives and I think that's a big part of the change tomorrow what are your thoughts
00:53:40
about Iran specifically I think demographic change and then China and demographic change
00:53:47
protests I've said this before and I've been tweeting about this for years but people so poorly understand demographics
00:53:53
everybody thinks that we have a surplus of people and we don't and we need to have a positive birth
00:53:58
rate in order to kind of continue to support the expansion of the world and GDP and we need that and right now we're
00:54:05
not in that situation if you look at a country by country basis a lot of these countries
00:54:10
um are facing that in a pretty cataclysmic way the most sensitive country to this is China I
00:54:18
mean their population got current course in speed I think the last number is it's
00:54:22
going to have by 2100 there'll be about 600 million people in China which is unbelievably disruptive in a very
00:54:30
negative way for them right because you will have a lot of people who are entering the workforce having to support
00:54:37
an entire cohort of people above them in terms of age right who are retired Etc so the state's going to have to get much
00:54:43
much more actively involved over the next 50 years in China and then you look at other countries
00:54:48
like Nigeria or India who are in uh you know at the beginning of what could be a
00:54:54
multi-decade boom because you have 20 year olds that will be entering the workforce you know they'll effectively
00:55:00
work for less than their older counterparts right so then they'll be an incentive then to bring work on Shore
00:55:06
into those countries and so it's going to have huge impacts because then you have Rising GDP you'll
00:55:13
have Rising expectations of living quality you'll have Rising expectations of how governments treat those people so
00:55:19
it's all kind of positive in general but the world needs more people let's just be clear especially in
00:55:25
Western countries we are going to be not we're not as badly off as China but we're not far behind yeah here's a quick
00:55:32
view of China and Japan which is in the same kind of I don't know what they exactly call these charts are kind of
00:55:37
like vertical histograms but you start and again you know data's hard to come by in some countries but you know
00:55:43
China's starting to get top heavy uh when compared to Iran and then if you look at Japan quite stunning there's
00:55:50
just no young people left and uh they live very uh to much older ages in Japan it's this longevity is one of their
00:55:57
great strengths as a population as a country and so these demographics can't be fought uh you're going to have a
00:56:03
contraction constricting economy in Japan and their place in the world is going to
00:56:08
be very very different okay where do we want to go to next we never asked my opinion on on uh
00:56:15
usually you just talk so go ahead I didn't want to I didn't know no I usually have to fight to give my opinion
00:56:22
oh here we go listen have your agent call my age and we'll talk about it okay uh we'll talk about it
00:56:28
I have a slightly different view of what's happening in China uh Jason which is you know I think that the people
00:56:35
there need to stop harassing the CCP you see the Chinese Communist Party they're
00:56:40
the elites they've set things up for the benefit of the people they're not engaged in Shadow Banning they're just
00:56:45
you know they have a system there to you know to engage in censorship to prevent
00:56:50
abuse and harm yeah right that's the system continue they've set up right yeah and the people just need to
00:56:57
understand that that when they say things like you know when they oppose things like covet lockdowns like
00:57:03
jabaracharya did they need to understand that that is engaging in abuse and harm
00:57:08
exactly yes and you know what they they re-education camps for citizens who need
00:57:14
you know to uh maybe rethink their positions on freedom and their wages the hours they work and their and their
00:57:22
social conditions you're you're absolutely correct China really has built a perfect model for our society
00:57:27
yeah well well said sex all right now we can move forward let's go for it we already finally we're in agreement by
00:57:34
the way you know that's going to get clipped out and go viral do you understand right according to it's
00:57:39
according to our Elites according to our Elites sites Yol Roth or Taylor Lorenz to criticize them is a form of
00:57:48
harassment you understand that right so therefore what the people in China are doing
00:57:53
specifically by opposing lockdowns you know they're taking the j-podacharya point of view they're engaging in harm
00:58:00
and abuse and harassment of their betters the disagreements why won't they just submit to the social credit system
00:58:10
that has been set up for them for their benefit it's for their benefit why question it yeah just accept accept
00:58:17
your fate and work hard for the good of the people great great points let's move
00:58:21
forward should we talk about sales I think it's actually a pretty it's a it's a pretty good satire I agree
00:58:26
all right I think we have to talk about FTX I I don't know if you saw and I the the people covering for SPF
00:58:36
it continues to be an absolute joke the number of interviews that SBF is doing is absurd but the people carrying water
00:58:44
for him is is even more offensive I mean if you're a criminal trying to cover up
00:58:49
your crime okay we get it you're trying to cover up and stay out of jail uh but Kevin O'Leary
00:58:55
um who um calls himself Mr Wonderful uh was on CNBC trying to defend the fact that he
00:59:03
was given this is stunning by the way 15 [ __ ] million dollars to be a spokesperson for
00:59:10
FTX so the grift not only went to the Press politicians uh but now commentators on
00:59:18
CNBC 15 million dollars to put that in context I mean you're talking what an elite NBA player gets from Nike this
00:59:28
does not exist in the world uh you know Kevin O'Leary might get you know 50 to 200k for speaking gigs but nobody gets
00:59:36
15 million dollars to show here's a 75 second clip that I don't know if you've all have seen but is unbelievably
00:59:44
stunning see on the other side of 75 seconds if you're a defense attorney that represents someone that you know is
00:59:51
guilty you gotta say yeah well they're Innocent but you may know they're guilty you may know they're guilty if you find
00:59:56
someone if you watch someone kill someone yeah they're innocence there's only the murder of my money in this case
01:00:02
okay it's murder of of ftx's money it's My Views everybody's look Joe if you use
01:00:09
money that you've got I don't I don't know I don't think you should be singing the blues right now at all oh yes I'm
01:00:14
singing the blues why because you're 15 million didn't pass out that you that's a lot of money a paid spokesperson it's
01:00:20
a lot of money you didn't have to do much for that that's pretty that's found a different decision that's a different
01:00:24
discussion you know you can make that decision on your own but I'm going to this point if you want to say I'm guilty
01:00:31
before he's tried I just don't understand it but it may end up costing me 15 minutes for a reputation on
01:00:36
everything else that's the problem that's why I stayed on this Pursuit I'm very transparent about it I've disclosed
01:00:41
everything I know about it I will find out more information if I make the credit committee I will act as a
01:00:45
fiduciary for everybody involved I will testify I am an advocate for this industry and this changes nothing just
01:00:53
look at the numbers that came out of circle today I'm an investor there too you've got the I lost it all in FTX and
01:00:58
we have a fantastic print on Circle the promise of crypto remains this will not change it pretty crazy 15 million bucks
01:01:06
any thoughts on the continuing SBF Saga sex well I don't know why we should care so
01:01:12
much about him I mean Kevin Leary but um but it's indicative right it's indicative of all these guys that got
01:01:18
money from this who is he who is he he's on track tank he's the one what he's on
01:01:23
Shark Tank and he's a contributor to CNBC who's on multiple times a week the point is like you've got the grift I'm
01:01:32
just trying to point out 15 million dollars to a CNBC commentator is just an extraordinary payoff I've never heard of
01:01:39
anything like that I don't I don't think it's fair to pick on Kevin O'Leary per se because there is a bunch of those
01:01:46
guys that took money from him you know a bunch of athletes did probably a bunch of movie stars you know Republicans yeah
01:01:54
like everybody got paid by this guy okay just like in the just like in the Twitter example I think it's important
01:02:01
in this case to generalize because the generalized thing is the real problem look if you want to focus on the Crux of
01:02:08
this you have a concept in law that sax knows better than the rest of us called fraudulent conveyance and we have
01:02:15
example after example where it does not matter whether it was in the Bernie Madoff example or for example Jason we
01:02:21
talked about it the guy in La that lost all the money client funds playing poker
01:02:26
yep you have to give the money back especially if it was fraudulently conveyed to you explain can you explain
01:02:32
this in detail for a second so the audience understands well on my understanding which is very basic and I
01:02:37
think David can probably do a much better job is the following which is if you get money
01:02:43
some way but it comes from somebody who fraudulently acquired that money you have to give the money back so in this
01:02:52
example what it would mean is if that they can show that that 15 million dollars that this guy got
01:02:59
came from SBF basically rating the piggy bank of user accounts he's going to have to pay the money back
01:03:08
just like for example in the Madoff fraud the the the folks that went to find the
01:03:16
money were able to go back to folks that actually redeemed even the beginning early ones and said I understand that
01:03:21
you didn't know any better but this was fraudulently conveyed to you so we need the money back and they got the money
01:03:26
back in that case if they had put a million in and it grew to 3 million they got their million principal back but the
01:03:31
two million in gains which were ill-gotten had to be returned returned return returned exactly so as I as I
01:03:37
understand it based on just what I've read that there's a 90-day rule around contributions meaning that if I think
01:03:43
this has to do with the bankruptcy that that if he donated money within 90 days then that can be Unwound so
01:03:52
um yeah but I do think it creates potentially a powerful incentive here by politicians and various political groups
01:04:00
for him not to be convicted of fraud for him to be able to plead this out into some sort of negligence because they
01:04:07
don't have to give the money back they keep the bag what an incredible Insight well this is what I think so interesting
01:04:12
about the governor Larry thing it's not about Kevin O'Leary but it's about the fact that the money was spread around so
01:04:18
widely and into such like deep trenches of the regulatory Society Society like into the blood influencers
01:04:27
um yeah and basically I think the guy like cemented this the he thought that like which which I think by the way is a
01:04:35
really interesting product of the crypto ecosystem and the model that so many kind of crypto businesses have engaged
01:04:42
in over the years which is if you can Fester the belief then there is a business if you cannot Fester the belief
01:04:47
there is no business that there isn't a fundamental productivity driver it's about building a belief system and you
01:04:53
can buy a belief system if you can take money that people have given you you can
01:04:57
embed it in influencers and celebrities and politicians and regulators and if you give it to enough of these people
01:05:04
and you give enough of it to them maybe that belief system solidifies and your thing becomes real which is of course a
01:05:11
Griff technique by the way in the grifters oh tell us all about it Jacob yeah yeah
01:05:16
it's a master no no it's the patina and it's this uh you know you look like you're incredibly Rich you know you're
01:05:23
going to fancy restaurants you're wearing an expensive suit you're getting in a sports car and then you own some
01:05:28
Palazzo or whatever and then some other rich person comes and you get them to invest in something and then you have
01:05:33
Scotland with the money but they see all the accoutrements you check all the boxes your parents were Stanford you
01:05:39
went to MIT and you are donating large sums of money and you got this big table at the club and you got a penthouse
01:05:45
everybody starts to feel well might is right you got the wealth there might be how would you guys like how would you
01:05:51
guys feel about honestly honestly no backing a CEO of a growth stage company that you put your firm's money into who
01:05:59
lives in a hundred and thirty million dollar house and has not yet exited the business yeah absolute alarm Bells
01:06:05
everywhere and this is why I'm not a fan let me ask you guys a question okay secondary sales yeah let me ask you guys
01:06:12
a question do you think that a billion dollars of dark money could stop a red wave just asking for a friend
01:06:22
sex no honestly do you think it's overweighted the money yes his mother was a huge Democratic bundler yeah and
01:06:28
moreover the the specific politicians he needed to influence there yes there were
01:06:32
some Republicans but by and large it was the SEC so are you the first person to make this clan I want to say did you
01:06:39
hear it here first on the olive pod mushrooms David sacks making the Declaration
01:06:46
because of well let me ask you let me ask a follow-up question what do you think would have more impact on our
01:06:52
election enormous amounts of dark money going to Democrats or extensive Shadow Banning of
01:07:00
conservative influencers yeah which one do you think would have a bigger impact in the 50 50 country where I mean the
01:07:09
scales are like balance where these elections are just a few thousand votes yeah what do you think the result is
01:07:14
going to be if we actually have a Level Playing Field we get rid of this swindler's dark money yeah that's an
01:07:19
interesting question um Let me let me add a link to that um what would have a bigger impact this
01:07:25
uh I think this is a great except for when you guys had your fight like or taking
01:07:31
away a woman's right to choose after 50 years of giving it to them which would have a bigger impact on the red wave
01:07:35
that didn't have a big impact but I think we're going to move across that I think we're gonna move past that yeah
01:07:39
all right great yeah great great great strategic what do you think about the cinema Kristin Cinema Kirsten Cinema
01:07:46
flipping to Independent do you think that's a big deal or I think I think it's really interesting I think it's
01:07:50
actually a very shrewd move on her part well first of all I think she's great you
01:07:55
know yeah just tell us tell us about her sex no well she she's she is the center from
01:08:02
Arizona a formerly Democrat now independent who is in the mold of you know John McCain who is a former center
01:08:09
from Arizona sort of this Maverick independent and she does not kowtow to her party Orthodoxy and when Biden
01:08:17
wanted to pass three and a half trillion of buildback better spending she along with Manchester to post it and I think
01:08:24
save the administration from this gigantic boondoggle that would have been inflation much much worse now imagine
01:08:30
got all the credit but she was equally responsible for putting a hold on that and then as a result they only did the
01:08:36
750 billion inflation reduction act so she's willing to Buck her own party now as a result of that
01:08:42
I think they were planning on she was going to get primaried that the progressive wing of the party was
01:08:48
planning on primary her and by moving to an independent in a sense she preempts that because what she's now saying is
01:08:56
she's now sort of like you know uh Bernie Sanders is an independent or this guy uh Angus King from from Maine they
01:09:03
still caucus with the Democrats but their independence and the in and the Democrats don't run uh candidates
01:09:10
against them because they know that if they do you'll have a republican a Democrat and independent and the
01:09:17
Democrats in The Independents will split the vote and the Republican will win so
01:09:21
basically she's now daring the Democrats hey if you want to run a candidate against me I'm not going to sit around
01:09:27
and get primaried by them you go ahead and run somebody but then we're both going to lose so they're a republican
01:09:33
that's what's smart about it is I think she's daring Schumer to run somebody against her
01:09:39
it's also interesting she's she's the only member of Congress I've read That's non-theist which is kind of like eighth
01:09:46
issue doesn't talk about God or doesn't believe in God and I think she's the first openly bisexual member of Congress
01:09:52
she's a Maverick certainly sex do you think she held up on making this decision until after that
01:09:58
Georgia Senate runoff election finished and do you think that it influenced the decision I don't know but I I think that
01:10:05
the the Democracy well imagine if she doesn't make this move now okay and then in two years well I guess really next
01:10:14
year she gets primaried okay and then what if she loses the primary it's going to be very hard for her to run as an
01:10:20
independent at that point it'll look like sour grapes sore loser right but if she goes independent now
01:10:28
she's saying listen I'm running as an independent no matter what the question you have to make is what the Democratic
01:10:34
party is whether to support me or basically take this election and throw it will we see more of this purple
01:10:40
approach I was just going to ask you what does this mean for Joe mentioned well I don't think Joe manchin has this
01:10:46
problem and I'll tell you why because um West Virginia unlike Arizona is like a plus 22 Red State Joe manchin is the
01:10:54
only politician in that state who could win that seat for the Democrats when Joe
01:11:00
manchin retires that seat is going Republican and Schumer knows this the Democrats know this they think they're
01:11:05
lucky stars every day that they got Joe manchin because otherwise that would be a republican seat and so look all this
01:11:12
stuff about how the progressives were upset with mansion and all that publicity he got that may be you know
01:11:17
the sort of progressive Wing is going to say that publicly but the smart Democrats know that they're very lucky
01:11:23
to have a politician like Joe manchin on their side of the aisle I could ask a question to you chamoth why
01:11:29
do Democrats why why are they it seems to be so anti-moderate Democrats why are they so resistant to
01:11:40
the concept of a moderate Democrat when obviously moderate Democrats seem to have an advantage in these elections
01:11:46
well no I think David described it well which is that in many of the seats this is both true for republicans and for
01:11:52
Democrats you're not really competing in a general election you're competing in a
01:11:56
primary and if you win a primary you're probably going to win so like you know if you're in Mississippi for example you
01:12:01
just have to win the Republican primary Nothing Else Matters and then you're just going to skate to Victory and so
01:12:06
the real question is who votes and those are different oftentimes and who votes in the general and this is why you get
01:12:13
this dispersion that's happening where folks seem to be getting more and more extreme it's reflecting the sound bites
01:12:21
that those primary voters want to hear and this is the big problem that we have and that's why like if you have a bunch
01:12:27
of this you know ranked Choice voting or you know these other kinds of methods it
01:12:32
starts to clean that up so that you move people more into the moderate middle but that's why that's why you have this
01:12:39
crazy stuff happening all right everybody this has been another amazing episode of the all-in podcast for the
01:12:43
dictator the Sultan of Science and David sacks I am Jake out we'll see you next time bye
01:12:51
we'll let your winners ride rain man [Music] we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy
01:13:02
[Music] it's like this like [Music] your feet we need to get Mercies oh yeah [Music]