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Sexy Can you can you come outside your window and and I'm gonna start waving and you'll see me you want to see me
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Zach have two of your Butlers hold you up on their shoulders I hope this is being taped and part of the show because
00:00:12
this is great David you're wearing blue shorts right yeah yeah I saw you did you
00:00:17
see me no I didn't see you where are you when you look out on the first house The
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Pink House look at this house you see this I heard you I couldn't see you though yeah
00:00:32
no I'm like to your right if you're looking out I'm at your right your first house on the right oh there oh I see you
00:00:40
see anything yeah I see you I see you guys are like 12 year olds come over afterwards we'll
00:00:47
have a glass okay all right I'm coming I'm gonna come over afterwards vivac has a hard stop we should go
00:00:52
[Music] let your winners [Music] we open source it to the fans [Music] all right the vague ramaswami is finally
00:01:10
on the program he's an entrepreneur he graduated Harvard yeah all that kind of stuff he was an entrepreneur then a
00:01:16
capital allocator I think broadstrokes everybody knows he's a conservative running as a republican he's anti-woke
00:01:23
he's pro-life anti-affirmative action pro-free speech and he wants Federal government term limits and uh his fans
00:01:33
are lunatics they've been asking for him to be on the all-in podcast every day I've gotten about 300 emails from your
00:01:39
fans welcome to the program they sound like your fans actually because I hear it all the time it's like
00:01:44
blaming me for why I have not been on this program and so you guys this has been like some sort of idealized
00:01:49
experience for me I'm looking forward to it okay great so what we try to do here
00:01:54
is have a real conversation try to get these candidates off their talking points so this isn't Meet the Press
00:02:00
obviously we want to talk to you like a human being so the extent that you know as a politician now you can talk like a
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human being the audience and we would appreciate it meet David sacks tremontia and David Friedberg all right Vivek why
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don't you explain maybe your background as a capital allocator and as an entrepreneur and then why you chose to
00:02:18
run for president at this time yeah sure I mean my parents like many people you probably also know who've had
00:02:25
similar success stories they came to this country with almost no money I went on to actually found successful
00:02:31
companies and so I started my career as a biotech investor I worked at a hedge fund in New York when I graduated in
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2007. I thought I was going to be a scientist I studied molecular biology ended up enjoying my time as an
00:02:46
internship at a hedge fund a lot more than that so I did that for seven years three of those years I spent law school
00:02:51
at the same time but then when I finished law school I had you know I think felt like my learning curve had
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flattened from being a pure capital allocator so I stepped down and founded a new kind
00:03:03
of Biotech company that I could actually you guys might be more interested in it
00:03:07
than most of my political audiences but the basic premise was give scientists skin in the game in the projects they
00:03:15
actually work on so if you're a GSK or advisor or whatever Merc you discover a drug or you develop it
00:03:22
you don't have personal upside in the individual drug that you develop you do have various forms of asymmetric
00:03:29
downside and so people don't take risks unless they're the same risks that the other Pharma companies are taking
00:03:34
because if you take the same risk and fail but everybody else is failing in a therapeutic category at the same time
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you're safe but if you take a risk that other people aren't willing to take and you fail
00:03:45
then you experience budget cuts maybe job security risks social embarrassment which is a big factor in big Pharma as
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well which in turn created an opportunity that I took advantage of which was that
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there were systematically categories of drugs that went undeveloped even after big Pharma had for a long time spent a
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lot of money developing those drugs up to a certain point so I built a business called royvin
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basically in licensed some of those drugs in their early stages of development phase one or phase two often
00:04:17
for pennies on the dollar relative to what had gone into them often we would have scientists or drug
00:04:22
developers who were passionate about that very project inside the companies who would come with those drugs because
00:04:29
they wanted to develop them but the big Pharma company said that they weren't in
00:04:32
that area anymore and we built a pipeline of such drugs the whole plan was some of them would
00:04:38
work some of them wouldn't the successes would make up for the failures and it's
00:04:43
now a 10 billion dollar public company and it returned unlike many private companies uh you know return a billion
00:04:48
dollars plus to shareholders before going public and uh you know is doing continues to do well to this day
00:04:55
I led the company as CEO for seven years five of the drugs I worked on or FDA approved today
00:05:01
what I'm probably most proud of is is a drug that sexually biologic that is life-saving therapy in kids another
00:05:08
one's an approved drug for prostate cancer but that was my world is the point very different world
00:05:14
maybe more similar to your guys's world now than the world I'm in now something funny happened in 2020 which
00:05:21
was that in my own company there were demands that I make a statement on behalf of black lives matter after the
00:05:29
George Floyd it was tragic death in May of 2020 by June there were demands that I start making statements on behalf of
00:05:37
BLM and it was a funny time because only starting that February I had ventured into actually exercising my voice as a
00:05:44
citizen while being a CEO at my own Peril criticizing what was then the still new shiny object of stakeholder
00:05:52
capitalism so I published this piece of the Wall Street Journal it generated some waves that February a few months
00:05:57
later in May this George Floyd controversy comes up and the long story short I can go into
00:06:01
it if you guys are interested but over the next six months a series of escalating events led me to face a
00:06:09
choice the following January of you know there's three advisors to my company that stepped down after I wrote a rather
00:06:16
I didn't intend it to be but a rather controversial piece in the Wall Street Journal at the time
00:06:21
yeah the premise of the piece was that it actually was controversial on numerous counts but the basic premise
00:06:27
was it was the first legal argument anybody had made that if the government is pressuring a private actor to do
00:06:33
something that the government couldn't do directly that that was still State action
00:06:38
now the subtext is this was in the wake of January 6th where there was widespread systematic censorship of you
00:06:44
know political speech in this country at least I believe there was and so at the time I made that argument
00:06:49
it was dismissed as a conspiracy theory on the facts no that's not happening it was also dismissed as a legal Theory you
00:06:55
know this rube who you know happened to go to law school forgot his first year where the First Amendment only applies
00:07:01
to State actors you know now fast forward three years two and a half years we now know those facts were far worse
00:07:09
than even I envisioned at the time and actually the legal argument that I made is now popularized by Clarence Thomas
00:07:15
and others that are finding its way into our jurisprudence but anyway three advisors to the company found it so
00:07:20
offensive that I would make this argument in public that within 48 Hours of that piece they resigned and that was
00:07:26
definitely a post-gen 6 mood and reaction that I had to then make a choice right because now this is having
00:07:33
potentially an adverse impact on the company I could either all right call it a year
00:07:38
where I experimented with expressing myself and you know wearing my legal academic hat and call that a day and
00:07:45
continue with biotech or legitimately if I didn't want to have an adverse impact on my company I could
00:07:50
step down and really speak freely I choose to I chose to step down not in small part because the company was doing
00:07:57
great you know I had a successor lined up so there was a fortunate set of circumstances that happened to be the
00:08:02
right time I just had my first son my son Karthik was born in February of 2020 he was about to turn a year old
00:08:10
we were the transitional phase of our life covid you know we were we had a year away from the office my wife was
00:08:15
filling her Fellowship there was just a lot going on in her life that it felt like this was a moment for a life
00:08:21
transition to focus on there's a lot of people talented people developing medicines maybe some of them
00:08:27
more talented than me you know rovin's a successful company did you feel like you
00:08:31
were being bullied into making a statement about black lives matter by your own employees and do you what's
00:08:36
your thought generally speaking on companies being politically active and companies having a political voice
00:08:41
because it has come up in our industry over and over again you might know Brian Armstrong from coinbase said hey we're
00:08:47
here to do crypto nothing else please don't talk about anything political so what are your thoughts generally on that
00:08:52
you wrote a whole book on this right I mean yes I read your book and it speaks a lot about the distinction between
00:08:59
what the intention is uh in optimizing for shareholders versus the personal interests of the executives and those in
00:09:06
charge expressing their personal points of view through the corporation um and I think you had some points of
00:09:12
view on where that should all go but was that in part motivating for you to run for public office and why president
00:09:18
instead of running for a senate seat or congressional seat or something else yeah so it turns out I've written I
00:09:24
wrote three books in the last two years and two of them are about this topic okay the first one is woke Inc which was
00:09:30
for a general audience and then there was a second one called capitalist punishment which was specifically about
00:09:35
the ESG strand of this in capital markets and just so people are aware my general view is that companies should
00:09:42
focus on making products and services for people who need them without apologizing for it and yes that's how
00:09:47
you maximize profit for shareholders by having a worthy Mission and sticking to it without taking on social missions
00:09:53
that are best carried out by institutions outside of corporate America I so much believe this that even before
00:09:59
I ran for president this actually does answer your question Davis I actually thought the way I was going
00:10:04
to have impact based on this I enjoy being an author but I'm not by Nature just an academic I like to do things I I
00:10:11
started a company called strive it's an asset management firm that directly competes against the likes of BlackRock
00:10:18
and State Street and Vanguard that's what I thought my next leap was going to be
00:10:23
strives first fund launched last August and less than a year in him it's close to a billion dollars in assets under
00:10:30
management I think it took JP Morgan two years to get to a billion when they got
00:10:33
into the ETF business that was what my journey was going to be is within Corporate America
00:10:38
restore the Unapologetic pursuit of Excellence over distracting and dilutive political environmental and social
00:10:46
agendas but the thing that struck me I think late last year and last December last
00:10:52
year we had our second son got a new company off the ground you all know what that entails you know was very much an
00:10:58
all-in experience doing that December we had some time to take a step back and you know my wife and I we
00:11:06
kind of take a moment to ask yourself why are you doing what you're doing it's not a conversation you often have or
00:11:12
take time to do but yeah the question of the why and it reminded me back of that
00:11:18
experience I had at William you asked me did I feel bullied didn't actually feel bullied I think I
00:11:23
could imagine someone in my shoes feeling that way but I didn't feel like it was somebody cornering me to do
00:11:29
something I didn't want to do others have had that experience that wasn't quite how it felt for me
00:11:33
felt like there's a group of people who followed me on this mission who look up to me who were disappointed in me
00:11:39
actually and I think that was much harder than feeling like I was being bullied was to
00:11:44
have a group of people who followed me on this worthy mission of developing medicines that Pharma companies weren't
00:11:48
that felt proud of that mission that now felt disappointed in me and that was much harder to deal with
00:11:55
than the bullying but that also opened my eyes to the fact that I'm here stridently fighting against BlackRock
00:12:00
and you know the ESG industrial complex which is a little bit of a deflection from the essence of what I actually
00:12:06
think is going on at the real root cause especially amongst young people in the country what is that
00:12:11
which is that they and this is what I saw in my employees in the experience I went through so that
00:12:16
was formative for me these are good people these are earnest people many of whom came it's it mainly is my fault
00:12:22
because the pitch that we made in recruiting we recruited from Harvard and MIT and everywhere else big Pharma
00:12:27
companies didn't recruit out of undergrad we did part of my pitch was hey you want to go you know to a Quant
00:12:32
hedge fund and turn that pile of cash into bigger pile of cash or do you want to actually make medicines that impact
00:12:37
people's lives and do well that way so that was part of you in my pitch going in so we select for a certain kind of
00:12:42
person and then they come back and say they're disappointed me for not adopting unrelated social agendas
00:12:48
what Donna me is that young people in this country I'm a millennial you guys are young
00:12:54
we're hungry for a Cause right we're so hungry for purpose and meaning and identity
00:13:05
and yet we're starving for that at a time in our history when the things that used to fill that void and we can
00:13:12
there's a lot of things that can fill that blank I talked about it today at this constitution Camp here in New
00:13:16
Hampshire Faith patriotism hard work family but I think there's there's some truth
00:13:22
to what Brian Armstrong told his employees a corporation with a worthy Mission can help fill that void too and
00:13:27
I think that's one of the roles that CEOs who feel like they're being bullied might miss is you you don't have people
00:13:32
who are bullying you you have people who are lost who are looking to you for direction and purpose you're saying it
00:13:37
quickly but I think that family and religion are very very big drivers oh huge yeah I'm just saying it quickly
00:13:44
because I talk about that all the time but um but I think the family and faith is
00:13:49
I mean these are foundational building blocks they're foundations I think that when you look statistically at like the
00:13:54
decay in the number of young people who are religious or the decay in a number of young people who actually have you
00:14:01
know two parent families all of this speaks to the fact that the social norms that gave people purpose
00:14:08
have actually gone but they haven't been replaced with anything else and I think
00:14:12
that's the vacuum that you're seeing that many of these young people fall into and so they're looking for
00:14:18
something to your point and um the problem with that is not the causes themselves but the fact that
00:14:24
they're short-lived and then what's left over is the need for more and more and more and that escalation I think is very
00:14:31
dangerous if you think about where you know Society goes to from here yeah I agree with you on that and that's why I
00:14:36
I have been characterized and Jason introduced me that way too is anti-woke I don't actually think of my I don't I
00:14:44
don't like that label because it's it's not inaccurate I don't like it because it's false
00:14:50
I think it misses the point where I think the way we actually combat fill in your favorite blanket wokism
00:14:57
climatism covetism fentanyl usage anxiety depression loss of self-confidence these things are
00:15:04
symptoms of a deeper void of purpose and meaning and so I don't think you help the matter much by and I've done some of
00:15:12
this I will admit this right yeah other people well I mean but the book I don't have you read the book Jason or not I
00:15:18
haven't yet but I will okay the book is uh it was it was titled and written before
00:15:24
the word weapon woke took on its current political violence yeah I will say that
00:15:28
actually okay many people didn't know what the word woke was at the time I titled it was fairly revelatory when you
00:15:33
came out and used that word in your in your title it was like let me reveal to you a little bit about what this thing
00:15:39
that I'm calling woke is turning into which is a more broader kind of social psychological issue that we're
00:15:47
all grappling with right how it's now leeched its way into politics it's leached its way into nonprofits it's
00:15:53
leached its way into Corporate America into for-profits into the military into government Etc obviously since that was
00:16:02
published it has now become this hot term that has different meaning for different people and it can be pretty
00:16:08
exciting in terms of how people react appreciate you saying that Dave yeah I appreciate you saying
00:16:12
that Dave because my net prescription is actually we dilute not just wokism I mean that's just part of the story We
00:16:19
dilute secular religions the rise of secular religion right and I don't call them even religions because religion is
00:16:26
withstood the test of time occult has not but the rise of modern secular cults we dilute them to irrelevance by filling
00:16:33
that void with an alternative vision and so you know if one political Camp might
00:16:38
offer race and gender and sexuality and climate as a prescription for the void I
00:16:45
think where conservatives fall badly short is by simply being anti those things without actually offering an
00:16:54
alternative vision of our own and I am aiming certainly to do that in this case and gender and these kind of things what
00:17:03
would be your uh you know qualities or things to focus on so let's do like a little face off right
00:17:10
individual we're talking about race gender sexuality climate I pair them up against
00:17:16
individual family Nation God okay and I think that there's a substantive Vision here I think America happened to
00:17:23
have been founded on the latter Vision not the former so if I'm running for U.S president I think that that already
00:17:27
tilts the scales in favor of this Vision because it so happens as a historical matter America was grounded on you know
00:17:34
some people will contest this but I think on that Vision rather than the genetic and climate-based one but I
00:17:40
think that that's something where the Republican party and conservatives have fallen short and that's part of what to
00:17:44
your question Jason pulled me into this is I saw the emergence of what was likely to be a biographical brawl
00:17:50
between two guys who were the you know Front Runners or whatever you know that's not productive but I
00:17:55
think more importantly than a biographical brawl even the question about Who We Are
00:18:00
I think the Republican party and the conservative movement was in many ways defining itself in opposition to that
00:18:05
alternative vision of identity where what I want to do what I'm striving to do and I hope we're doing
00:18:10
is actually offering an affirmative vision of our own that go to the heart of what it means to be an American and
00:18:17
you know I don't think that national identity alone is going to fill that vacuum fully but I think it makes a
00:18:23
pretty good darn stride forward and I think those roles for pastors and others that's beyond my pay grade and so I'm
00:18:29
not I'm not purporting to do that in this campaign I speak to it but that's that's going to be the role of people in
00:18:35
a higher calling than being U.S president but I think the next U.S president can play a meaningful role in
00:18:41
filling that vacuum at least when it comes to national identity and so that's really what this campaign is about it's
00:18:46
not it's not anti-woke it is unapologetically nationalist in a certain sense of that word
00:18:53
Nationalist and sense of embracing those ideals that set this nation into motion that
00:18:58
still unite us across those genetically inherited attributes that we've otherwise celebrated over the last 10
00:19:04
years safe to say you believe in American exceptionalism and that's that's your platform that is my platform
00:19:10
the exceptionalism of the ideals that set this country into motion absolutely so Vivek let me ask a question around
00:19:18
where we are in the cycle of the American experiment where we have obviously allowed the throttle to be full forward
00:19:29
and as a result we've seen extraordinary progress emerge from the entrepreneurial
00:19:33
talents and the drive of the people of this country for the past 250 years and it's really extraordinary in a
00:19:39
transformed human civilization We Now find ourselves particularly over the past 50 years as this problem has
00:19:46
gotten worse with increasing disparity between the Haves and the have-nots or those who believe they they have not
00:19:53
which is nearly everyone everyone now has some point of view that they have not got something and they see other
00:19:59
people that do have something that they do not and this inequality and this perception
00:20:04
of inequality both with respect to Absolute amounts of capital income earnings and these perception issues
00:20:10
have now driven a populist movement in this country that we have seen historically many times in the past
00:20:16
different countries that ultimately turn into either socialist Nations or fascist nations in all cases some
00:20:25
sort of autocratic regime seems to have emerged because of this populist movement that we're now seeing not just
00:20:31
in the US but across the West do you feel like we're at that moment in the U.S and one of the manifestations of
00:20:38
that I'll say is government spending because everyone demands more from their government than the government steps up
00:20:44
and the elected officials that they elect step up and spend more and at layers and layers and layers and we now
00:20:49
have a 33 trillion dollar debt load and we have a one and a half trillion dollar
00:20:53
annual deficit and by many projections Social Security will be bankrupt in anywhere from 10 to 15 years uh 10 to 20
00:21:00
years whatever numbers you want to use the CBO assumes we're going to have unsustainable spiraling debt what is
00:21:07
your point of view on where we are in the cycle how it's manifesting today and how we're going to deal with the fiscal
00:21:12
issues that arise from these movements yeah so I think where we are in that in the cycle I don't take that as a passive
00:21:21
law of physics I think that who runs this country and leads this country can make an actual difference in the actual
00:21:29
underlying course of that so-called cycle which is part of what pulls me into this so I'm a little bit
00:21:33
unconventional on uh did my views on the debt load and the entitlement spending in this country and our first step in
00:21:41
our way out of it I I don't think we're at a place of having remotely enough consensus or trust and I think trust is
00:21:48
probably the more important word than consensus to begin just snip snip make cuts to what people feel like they were
00:21:54
entitled to and promised especially in a moment where we're beginning with deep distrust that will take what you call
00:22:00
those populist flames and throw kerosene on it okay I do I'm more optimistic about this and I think this is quite
00:22:06
realistic actually is that the next Leap Forward is we can grow our way out of I'm not going to say all but most of our
00:22:14
actual fiscal calam pending fiscal Calamity right this year I mean I think like right now last six months we're
00:22:20
talking less than 1.5 percent annualized GDP growth what we're averaging right now for most of our national history
00:22:26
we've actually grown it over four plus percent GDP growth certainly if you go back to the pre-gold standard period and
00:22:32
even after going off the gold standard we had a relatively stable US dollar and I am one of these weird guys who
00:22:38
believes that the FED should have a single Mandate of dollar stability without playing the Phillips curve game
00:22:45
but anyway put that side track to one side we've grown at three four percent GDP growth for most of our national
00:22:51
history even relatively recent National History and I don't think it's a complicated path to get back there I
00:22:58
think things we need to do unlock American Energy there's you know we talk about secular religions I view
00:23:03
the climate cult as one of those secular religions what would your specific energy plan be
00:23:09
completely completely um unlock the permitting process that they've used as a backdoor mechanism to
00:23:14
shut down American energy production drilling fracking burning coal Coal should not be a four-letter word
00:23:19
embracing nuclear energy later tonight like after we're having this conversation this evening I'm going to
00:23:25
be at St Anselm College laying out my detail it's going to be like a giant poster laying out the anatomy of how I
00:23:31
will shut down the nuclear Regulatory Commission which has been a fundamentally hostile administrative
00:23:37
agency to the existence of nuclear power in this country actually even to the detriment of actually making sure that
00:23:44
we are getting our nuclear energy from Gen 2 rather than gen 3 or Gen 4 reactors but that'll be for tonight it's
00:23:51
an all of the above approach of unshackling ourselves to produce energy here in the United States to your point
00:23:57
about you know Dave made a good point earlier about the addiction of paying people more from
00:24:04
the federal government that becomes the status quo that's your voter base that's
00:24:07
not even good in many cases for the people who are giving that money too I think we should stop paying people to
00:24:12
stay at home when actually the top obstacle for many businesses to grow you guys will know
00:24:17
this well is feeling vacant job openings and so that is an obstacle to GDP growth
00:24:24
is paying people more to stay at home than many of them earn to go back to work do you think that the IRA was good
00:24:31
legislation I I don't have um it's not like it's not like my the horse that I'm gonna you
00:24:38
know uh ride right in terms of like the main I'm gonna pin everything on it but but I mostly don't think it was it was
00:24:44
great legislation uh what like where are you coming from on that because I we might have different reasons if you
00:24:50
think about what the IRA does for energy and crank me if you just roll up the bil
00:24:55
chips and Ira I'm just curious your thoughts on whether government incentives are moving in that direction
00:25:02
that you actually support or you still think it's it's missing something well so one of the things that I
00:25:08
actually focus on and I think is really important is what can the U.S president actually do I
00:25:17
mean president Trump's I don't know people remember this his main promise uh policy promise was actually repeal and
00:25:22
replace Obamacare which never happened because it required going through Congress so I'm actually focused on
00:25:27
elements that I can deliver on without asking Congress either for permission or forgiveness and so that's when I
00:25:34
answered to Jason was I go straight to at least let's focus on actually the administrative state which on my reading
00:25:39
of the Constitution reports in to the single duly elected president so when I talk about the permitting process of the
00:25:44
Department of interior or shutting down the nuclear Regulatory Commission I believe in you know we could go I'm
00:25:50
going to details on it tonight I have the legal authority to do that as the U.S president I think the legislation is
00:25:56
going to be much more complicated and I don't believe that I can be in a position to promise what we would do
00:26:01
legislatively to any of that you mentioned um getting people to take all these jobs
00:26:07
that that are available um do you want to talk about immigration for a second and what you think about
00:26:12
that yeah merit-based immigration before you go right to immigration would would you
00:26:16
are you saying you would cut entitlements like unemployment or shorten the unemployment period to force
00:26:21
people to go back to work is that and tie them to work requirements absolutely yeah would you have a
00:26:27
specific for that like a certain number of months or you know yeah a pretty good
00:26:31
a pretty good I mean I do but I think that's again I'm very clear about what I will do through executive Authority what
00:26:38
needs to go through legislation I mean that's all a negotiation but I think a good principle is 1996 or in the 1990s
00:26:44
work Fair under Clinton was actually far more aggressive than the work environment work requirements that were
00:26:51
put into this supposed republican-led debt deal where like what did they say it was if you're age 18 to 55 and you
00:27:01
are able-bodied and childless then you have to work at least 20 hours a week in order to receive more than three months
00:27:10
out of three years worth of welfare right you know Joe Biden as a U.S senator voted for actually much more stringent
00:27:18
work Fair requirements in the 90s so you know yes I have ideas on specifics but I'm not going to make a promise on
00:27:23
exactly what that specific will look like but a guiding principle is it has to be at least as aggressive as what we
00:27:28
adopted I mean during Clinton we had 69 almost 70 participation and we're at 60.
00:27:34
now I think so it's obvious that we have to uh trim that the next point you know
00:27:39
we have 10 million job openings we're not letting anybody in how would you look at immigration obviously we have
00:27:44
people coming in the southern border illegally and then we have H-1B visas and now Canada is saying hey we'll steal
00:27:51
all those h-1bs we'll take them so how do you look at immigration to chamat's question
00:27:56
merit-based immigration I mean one of the things that Canada does have and I'm not a fan of America mutating Canada or
00:28:01
anything like this in in most respects but they do have a point-based system right they have a point-based system and
00:28:06
so I think the point-based system should work differently in the U.S but I do favor merit-based immigration I'm a
00:28:15
little bit of a departure from what I think is the Republican consensus here you know people I respect Tom Cotton and
00:28:20
others have proposed bills with a hard cap on the number of immigrants I think it's a mistake I think that the
00:28:26
cap should declare itself based on how many people meet the meritocratic criteria
00:28:31
qualities then for what would be your top criteria in this point-based system two criteria skills that match up to job
00:28:37
openings in the United States but secondarily and this one's important to me I would move the Civics portion of
00:28:46
becoming a citizen to the front end of even being granted a visa to enter this country and I think that addresses and
00:28:53
accommodates an important part of the concern that many people who are pro-immigration cap actually favor is I
00:29:00
think there are legitimate concerns about the dilution the loss of a national identity
00:29:04
but a lot of that is conflated with first the cycle of illegal immigration I'm a hardliner on this I favor putting
00:29:10
the U.S military on the southern border I've said I would use it on the northern
00:29:14
border I believe that that we're on strong constitutional and legal authority to do it I do not think
00:29:20
building the wall was enough there are cartel Finance tunnels underneath that wall that Vehicles literally run through
00:29:25
today so in some ways I'm going further than Trump in this direction but simultaneously de bureaucratized speed
00:29:33
up the process for merit-based immigration but part of Merit includes not just skills but also Civic
00:29:42
commitments to the country and I'm you know I use the word nationalist before I know that scares some people I mean it
00:29:47
in a positive way I think every high school student in this country should have to pass the
00:29:54
same Civics test that an immigrant has to pass in order to become a citizen of this country
00:29:59
I also would favor bringing that on the front end and it selects for the kind of
00:30:03
people who know something about the country when they enter which I think is a good thing people should assimilate
00:30:07
and they should love this country in order to come into the country yes I do I think I think you should want
00:30:12
to come here to be an American yeah I think I think you get agreement Around the Horn here
00:30:18
sax you've heard uh vivec's position so far you obviously are passionate about the GOP what do you agree with and what
00:30:25
don't you agree with so far well there's a lot of stuff to agree with there we're
00:30:28
talking about American exceptionalism one thing I want to talk about there is that I agree that America is exceptional
00:30:37
and we're most exceptional when we're trying to set an example for other nations when we're trying to be The
00:30:42
Shining City on a Hill as Reagan put it but lately and really I mean over the last couple of decades what you've seen
00:30:50
is that what the American exceptionalism means to a lot of people in Washington is that we run all over the world and
00:30:56
impose our ideology and our values on all these different countries we began this great crusade to try and spread
00:31:04
democracy in the Middle East we tried to turn countries like Afghanistan and Iraq
00:31:09
into madisonian democracies we now are very very involved in Ukraine basically trying to detach that country from the
00:31:20
Russian sphere of influence and turning it into a member of our military and economic Alliance
00:31:26
so it does seem like American exceptionalism has taken on this sort of harder more militarized Edge where would
00:31:33
you draw the line I mean like what makes sense to you I think I basically agree with everything you
00:31:40
just said I think as a side note on the geopolitics of it I do think Ukraine is on track to become potentially the next
00:31:46
Vietnam or the next Iraq I think you have said similar things I also think there's something else
00:31:51
going on with Ukraine that's fueling this which relates to the deeper identity crisis in our country that I
00:31:57
described earlier I think Ukraine has become a new religion right in the country and it's a substitute for
00:32:03
purpose and meaning just like climate ideology or wokism is and and you know there's the flag it's like a crusade I
00:32:09
mean you have people like waving these oh absolutely yeah you go to Washington DC at least I did in June I was there
00:32:15
for one of the Sunday shows where my wife and I are going for a walk we saw more trans flags and Ukraine Flags than
00:32:21
we did American flags on a short walk that we took through Washington DC our nation's capital so I'm not I'm not
00:32:28
whining about this or being histrionic about it I just think getting to the essence of what's going on I think
00:32:33
that's a different element of Ukraine that's different from even what we saw with Vietnam or Iraq
00:32:39
I don't think American exceptionalism is foisting our values on anyone I think American exceptionalism is about
00:32:45
demonstrating through our example how America flourishes and is strong when we live by our own ideals
00:32:53
and I think the best way we give hope to the Free World Is by being that shining
00:32:57
City on a Hill not going somewhere else and talking about it with tanks behind us while actually suffering here at home
00:33:04
if you roam the streets of Kensington as I did a few weeks ago you know you don't
00:33:09
have to go to you don't have to go to Baghdad to see the third world and so that I think is is I think a big loss of
00:33:15
where we are today in the country when you're President Putin invades Ukraine you would sit back not give any
00:33:21
armaments and let them roll in here's what I would do I would actually be proactive in doing a deal and I've
00:33:27
been very clear about the deal I would do Trump has said he would do a deal in 24
00:33:31
hours he didn't say what it was I I believe there's a deal to be done but I also believe it's important to be clear
00:33:36
about what the Contours of that deal would be I would freeze the current line let's
00:33:42
take the status quo right now it so I can answer your question or I can answer starting from the present if you don't
00:33:48
we could do it I mean the obvious yeah the obvious is maybe put NATO take NATO off the table and avoid the whole thing
00:33:54
but now we're yeah yeah we're playing history so maybe it's better to talk about what's happening in the present
00:34:00
right because I don't think that we would have if I was President I don't think we would have gotten to the point
00:34:03
of those things rolling in Angela Merkel made some disastrous comments Putin made
00:34:07
a hard demand we would have said hard no to Ukraine joining NATO and that would have been that there would have been no
00:34:12
tanks rolling and Putin made let's talk about if you took NATO off the table put
00:34:15
may have still invaded we don't know I I don't think so but we can't you know those are counter factuals that we
00:34:20
exactly you know yeah we're not going to have one side or the other being able to
00:34:24
to prove that right so let's talk about the present right now let's say I'm US president
00:34:30
I would freeze the current lines of control we have a precedent for doing this the Korean War Korean War style
00:34:36
Armistice that does give Putin most of the donbass region that's beyond the pale of what many are
00:34:44
willing to accept in either party but I think any deal someone has to win everyone has to win something out of the
00:34:49
deal I would further then give that assurance that NATO will not admit Ukraine to Nato
00:34:55
but there's a requirement in return the biggest requirement is that Russia has to exit its military partnership with
00:35:02
China there's a 2001 treaty it's called the Treaty of good neighborliness and cooperation military cooperation between
00:35:09
the two countries that Xi Jinping and Putin ratcheted up to the so-called strategic No Limits partnership in 2022.
00:35:17
that is why China is now coming by the way to Russia's Aid I personally believe we are absolutely sending Putin into XI
00:35:25
jinping's arms in a way that's a mistake I would also require that Putin remove his nuclear weapons from kaliningrad
00:35:32
that we take any Russian military presence in the U.S in the Western Hemisphere off the table Venezuela Cuba
00:35:38
Nicaragua I think this is a deal that Putin would do if we paired it with reopening
00:35:43
economic relations with Russia which I would do because I think Putin does not and I can give you some evidence for
00:35:48
this but I think Putin does not enjoy being XI jinping's little brother and so I think that this is actually an
00:35:53
opportunity and I have to confess I'm a guy who sees our foreign policy prism through the prism of believing that
00:36:00
China is the top long-run threat that we face and so most of my foreign policy views and National Security views even
00:36:07
on topics that are apparently unrelated to China I still see it through that prism but this one isn't a far leap
00:36:12
because China is literally in a military treaty with Russia and coming to their aid I would use the Ukraine war and an
00:36:18
end to the Ukraine war as a way to bifurcate the russia-china relationship and divide basically dissolve that
00:36:27
relationship and then actually that's our best way and most effective step towards
00:36:32
deterring Xi Jinping from going after Taiwan because right now Xi Jinping you know I
00:36:39
think that there's a mistaken consensus view that the way he thinks about it is oh Reason by analogy rather than by
00:36:44
actual analyzing of a situation say oh well he got that piece of land maybe I can go get this island I don't think he
00:36:50
Reasons by analogy I think he Reasons by the cards he has in terms of hard power
00:36:55
so his bet is that the U.S won't want to go to war with two different Allied nuclear superpowers at
00:37:02
the same time but if Russia is no longer in his Camp then Xi Jinping is going to
00:37:07
have to think twice about going after Taiwan so then I guess part of my broader Taiwan expression there is you
00:37:13
wouldn't defend Ukraine would you have America and the Allies defend Taiwan if it was invaded
00:37:18
I would at least until the U.S has achieved semiconductor Independence yeah because we depend on them for our
00:37:26
modern way of life in a way that we don't on Ukraine and then the latter part of this is it sounds a little crass
00:37:32
to some people but I believe in being honest I actually think that yeah I'll get to the I'll get to this
00:37:38
point in a second but to answer your question yes until we've achieved semiconductor
00:37:43
Independence God I believe we can achieve semiconductor Independence yeah so it's not your belief is not hey these
00:37:49
are two democracies they both deserve equal defense from the United States Ukraine and Taiwan it's Ukraine doesn't
00:37:55
have semiconductors we don't have a strategic need to defend them in Taiwan so it's a lot more of a pragmatic
00:38:01
Cutthroat approach to foreign policy it is I I um of course um you know resist the characterization
00:38:08
of cutthroat a little bit I go back to the principle that David mentioned of what American exceptionalism
00:38:13
is to me is that when America is strong and is flourishing and Americans are flourishing within America we set the
00:38:21
example for the Free World of what is possible and so my view is that yes at least
00:38:27
until time until we're semiconductor self-sufficient and I think things work out here where I think we can get there
00:38:34
we've got our semiconductors up and running you'll let China roll into Taiwan no big deal for you
00:38:40
I will say that I definitely evaluate that very differently than I do today your thoughts Free Bird yeah let me just
00:38:52
ask so Vivek I mean I think that your point is is a really important one which is that when we're
00:39:01
happy at home we tend not to look for conflict abroad that's almost a universal truth that's emerged from history human
00:39:10
civilization has shown that you know when the people in a democracy in particular are happy
00:39:18
at home and certainly autocracies are quite different Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar
00:39:24
Augustus Caesar you go through history but like when you have a true democracy you don't vote to go and you don't
00:39:29
support the idea of conflict abroad if you're happy at home but the counter is true which is when you're unhappy at
00:39:35
home you tend to look for conflict abroad and by some assessments Ray dalio had this great book about this
00:39:42
the changing world order I don't know if you if you read it but you know he makes this point about
00:39:47
the internal strife leads to external conflict which is why it felt like we were going to go that way with Ukraine
00:39:53
Russia coming out of 21. so I wonder are we happy at home we're not and I want to ask it I want to
00:40:01
ask another question tied to this why is Donald Trump leading in the polls because I think that the two go hand in
00:40:08
hand there is something that he represents and there's something about his voice that I think Echoes the
00:40:14
sentiment of this populist unhappiness inside of this country today that manifest in a bunch of ways one of which
00:40:21
is the interest in and support for external conflict but I don't know if you're up for kind of thinking about
00:40:27
tackling the two questions together but I love your your take on that yeah great
00:40:31
question I think you're absolutely right I mean you're extending a theme of where I talk about sort of
00:40:37
domestic cultural annoyances as a symptom of a deeper vacuum in our national soul I think that actually our
00:40:45
projection and focus abroad is a lot easier of a deflection away from the harder step of taking a long hard look
00:40:52
in the mirror and asking ourselves about the health of our own Nation today and so I think that's a deep question
00:40:59
I think we're not healthy as a nation today I think we suffer from deep-seated Psychic insecurity psychological
00:41:05
insecurities I think the economic stagnation the fact that real wage growth isn't up for the bottom 99 of the
00:41:11
country now a lot of that I put at the feet of the Federal Reserve there are a lot of other complex factors behind it
00:41:16
but a lot of this feeds into what you call populism I don't excuse me I don't I don't like this by
00:41:24
the way just to be clear I think that it's just imprecise it's a rapper that tries to catch too many things and it
00:41:30
doesn't catch any of them enough so yeah yeah well you're calling populism is actually a failure of our Elites isn't
00:41:37
that what's going on we saw during covid that all the health authorities did a horrible job the CDC and the NIH it
00:41:44
turns out they were funding function research which may have caused kovid in the first place they were doing
00:41:49
experiments on bat viruses almost certainly did cause yeah exactly so you know we keep finding out that the
00:41:56
elites are supposed to be running the country and running these institutions they're doing an absolutely horrible job
00:42:00
that's what the reaction is against then people come along and label up populism
00:42:05
and say it's going to lead to Fascism it's like come on that is a way of protecting the people in power from
00:42:11
accountability for the horrible job they're doing it's well said absolutely and the use of the word populism is
00:42:18
almost stacking that debate in favor of saying that those grievances aren't legitimate and so I think why is Donald
00:42:25
Trump polling at number one in the polls because people know the truth I think those grievances are absolutely
00:42:32
legitimate now I think the mood of the country has changed a little bit including the mood of the hard
00:42:37
conservative base has changed since 2015. I think there's now I think there is now a sense that what are we actually
00:42:45
going to do about it are we are we going to go the direction of a national divorce I mean
00:42:50
your divorce is one of these things that speaks itself into existence maybe applies at the same at the level of a
00:42:55
Nation right that's on the table it's in the it's in The Ether I don't think most people including in
00:43:01
our hardcore America first base I'm part of that base I don't think want a national divorce
00:43:08
and so I think that the moment now calls for this is why I'm in this race this is
00:43:12
actually why at this point I couldn't have told you this in March but at this point I'm convinced we're actually going
00:43:16
to be successful in this this is what the unique Fusion we're going to require is not somebody showing
00:43:23
up saying hope Kumbaya let's move forward compromise hold hands and declare its morning again in America no
00:43:30
that ain't gonna work but I think it requires recognizing the legitimacy of those grievances not as
00:43:36
lip service I I believe for the same reasons mentioned many of those grievances are legitimate
00:43:42
they're grounded in truth but to say as I often say to the left hardship is not the same thing as
00:43:49
victimhood and we're not going to choose victimhood we're going to choose recognition of Truth as our best path to
00:43:57
heal over whatever's happened and then to move forward that's why I've come out and been very vocal about the fact that
00:44:01
I would pardon Trump of each of the two indictments that have already been brought in if the j6 indictment is
00:44:06
brought against him I would do the same thing I think that we have to be able to
00:44:11
recognize the truth of our past grievances of our fellow Americans and actually not just pay lip service to it
00:44:21
but feel into it and acknowledge the reality of them I think that's then the table Stakes events meeting a demand
00:44:27
that many in our Grassroots conservative base have I'm one of them a desire to also move forward as one nation and I
00:44:34
think both of those elements are going to be required they don't go together I think there are people in the Republican
00:44:39
primary who offer each of those on their own yeah whoever successful gonna have to offer
00:44:46
both this morning there was a an opinion piece I'm assuming you read it by Rich Lowry chief of the National
00:44:52
Review published on Politico get ready for the Vivek ramaswamy moment in which I would say he's fairly effusive about
00:45:01
the campaign you're running right I mean would you agree like effusive you said yeah so there was so really yeah did you
00:45:08
read the piece I mean I thought there were some really is it abusive oh really interesting he loves you yeah no he said
00:45:14
he doesn't love me actually no he doesn't love you but he said something I think he said some complimentary things
00:45:18
about your campaign about your character but said there's no way you're going to
00:45:22
win and win for president well you went from under one percent I think now the latest polls has you above five percent
00:45:27
and we're in the very early Innings here right I think there's one that just came I
00:45:31
mean yeah there's some that have you know bounced a little higher than that but yeah you're a little higher before
00:45:35
the first debate the thing that vivek's done let me just State this Observer and
00:45:38
then you can react to it is that you have kind of inserted yourself in the debate on every issue you know every day
00:45:47
as it comes up I mean you're kind of living off the land as a candidate not out there with just kind of a
00:45:52
traditional stump speech but you're finding a way to insert yourself into the debate every day on social media I
00:45:59
see it right I mean you post a tweet that will hit the nerve of whatever the issue is going viral that day which
00:46:07
means that you'll go viral and so for months I've been seeing your tweets go super viral and so it's not surprising
00:46:13
to me that your kids is starting to you know catch on in that way what's remarkable to me is that other
00:46:21
candidates can't do it I mean when you first started doing it I was kind of like okay this is
00:46:25
obvious and easy of course this is what you would do but other candidates have not really done that for whatever reason
00:46:30
so I mean my perspective yeah my perspective on that because if we use it I don't like
00:46:37
it is when you accuse us of creating a banking crisis but other than that yeah I do want to close the loop on that
00:46:43
one we can either do it on air or off actually because yeah let's go do it right now yeah yeah you know so for the
00:46:49
other kid it's not doing it it's anyway that's less interesting it's fine maybe they'll do it it's not running it
00:46:56
through a filter right because I think the traditional political thing is and here's what's going to happen to me as a
00:47:00
consequence I'm going to eat the consequence of this right everything comes at a cost there's no free lunch
00:47:04
I'm gonna say something in real time that reflects my honest instincts that's my whole strategy right people can tell
00:47:11
the difference but then I'm going to change my mind on one out of 100 things okay and that's just gonna happen right
00:47:17
and it's going to be open to that and eat my words and you know I'm gonna do it at some point and that's the
00:47:23
trade-off we're making is that I'm not running it through the filters I'm I'm not making up what I believe I'm telling
00:47:28
you actually to the contrary what I truly believe but if I'm doing it really that rapidly
00:47:33
in response to what's happening I think people appreciate that but I'm going to eat my words at some point and that's
00:47:38
okay in response to new information response new information or sometimes even in response to reflection right
00:47:44
basically because it's less filtered this is what you're saying you might make a gap do you want to close the loop
00:47:49
on this other thing yeah do you think Jason caused a banking crisis by using all caps locks when he tweeted yes or no
00:47:54
I do nothing tweet on a Saturday night call as a bank run I did not say I I did not I never said
00:48:04
that either but we did go at it pretty hard I think actually I I think there's a chance we might still disagree Dave
00:48:09
but I think that I've done the sacks here but yeah so so I've actually talked to a lot of
00:48:16
friends who were in the position of running companies that had some amount of Gap and and we talked through this
00:48:24
like the specifics of the situation and then it dawned on me where and it might it's not it's not
00:48:30
necessarily we're gonna agree at the end of this but there's a chance that we might actually
00:48:35
which is this so in the lead up to this before that Friday I was already against
00:48:43
any governmental intervention here let this play out why because like let's put aside all the histrionics do the math on
00:48:49
it and I'm remember there's a little hazy now right so on the facts but I think it's approximately right and you correct
00:48:55
me if you have up-to-date facts on this but I think it's approximately right if everybody had run
00:49:00
and gotten their money out I think it would have been like 94 cents on the dollar that everybody would have
00:49:06
walked out with right and so what happened on Friday is in this department where I want to potentially build a
00:49:12
bridge here the part that what happened on Friday was that Friday was the government
00:49:18
uh with FDIC or otherwise froze yeah Friday morning yeah yeah the Friday morning you're much closer to this you
00:49:27
know in the details but the California regulator froze the ability to take out deposits so I am more sympathetic
00:49:33
to the point that once the government's gotten involved because that really has been like
00:49:38
you know kind of like an oh crap moment where your CEO of a company or CFO and you want to get your money and then you
00:49:44
can't now it's Panic right right and so I think that there's a version of the world where the version of the world I
00:49:51
wanted I was talking about this before you and I were talking directly to each other I just think they should have
00:49:55
stayed out of it 94 cents on the dollar not bad which is why the public didn't actually end up directly using taxpayer
00:50:01
funds was because the bank was healthy in its own right that's what that's the worst result a bank run would have
00:50:05
produced there which actually should have been heartening in terms of confidence let me give you an Insight
00:50:10
that maybe you weren't as close to as the rest of us were which is on all the boards that all of us sit
00:50:16
on all of the boards were discussing independent of this show and the conversations and the media we need to
00:50:22
move all of our money out of all of the banks that aren't one of the top three and move all of our money into those top
00:50:27
three so the point which is a shame that's that's the point of view that we all saw was that there was a mad rush in
00:50:36
Corporate America in startup land in small business land this isn't even VC land this is like everything from the
00:50:43
non-profits that we sit on the board of to the you know laundromat to the dry cleaner to every business in a small
00:50:50
Bank was saying I gotta move my money into a big bank now and that's where the whole banking system is put at risk and
00:50:56
that is why we all universally felt that it was important to highlight that the federal government needs to step in and
00:51:03
reassure and rebuild confidence in the small banks in this country and that the only way to do that was to
00:51:10
say your deposits are safe and that was it and that that was the point because the Panic that was going on in small
00:51:16
business land in America which as you know employs half of the people in this country was at risk and that those
00:51:22
people those small businesses were fearful and they were looking to rush to the big Banks and that would have
00:51:26
cradered the small banks around the country so and I think it's it's a different advantage point right we have
00:51:31
a discussion about populism and everything else yeah I don't think Dave sacks caused the bank
00:51:37
run anymore that I'm causing populist waves in this country again it was Jason with his caps lock but yeah go ahead but
00:51:44
I think I think the reality is pure literally have tweeted that I caused the bankrupts insane but there's there's a
00:51:50
technical there's a technical Point uh I'll make and then we'll get to the deeper way the technical point to close
00:51:54
lupus I think Dave I find your position more reasonable given that it's after Friday when the California Regulators
00:52:03
came in and locked in but in my version of the world I would have just said stay
00:52:07
the heck out government of any kind 94 cents on the dollar there's a six percent haircut and and we've discovered
00:52:14
the market actually works and we avoid playing favoritism in the first place and I say this as somebody who and this
00:52:19
is where you understand my vantage point have been a long time opponent of the creation of the notion of sibs
00:52:26
systemically important banks in the first place as an opponent to the bailouts of 2008 as somebody who's
00:52:31
running for U.S president not to lead incremental reforms but a sort of revolution in the kind of restoration
00:52:37
and the Integrity of both capitalism and democracy that I think is actually the best antidote to would you try to
00:52:42
deconstruct the sibs well I mean give the status quo of where we are I think that I would have to
00:52:48
offer a credible enough basis to make sure that people know that if there's a system so-called previously known as
00:52:54
systemically important bank that fails that the Public's still not going to be there for them but in a way that allows
00:53:00
for enough of a enough of an unburdened banking sector that we have resilience in terms of exactly who can actually
00:53:08
fill that void and I think that there is a discursive impact on I don't think it
00:53:12
has to be and this is where we may disagree a little bit and there's a small scale disagreement I don't think
00:53:17
it has to be a state of the world where we just assume consumers are dumb and don't take this into account consumers
00:53:22
are in part dumb because we treat them as dumb right and so these it's like a Heisenberg effect right you can't you
00:53:29
know you you assume you're following what's then what I mean is you you know basic principle in physics
00:53:36
you can't you know observe the spin and not affect the spin of the electron at the same time I think the same thing
00:53:41
applies to a relationship between the government and its people and so I think part of the reason that people I think I
00:53:46
feel the same way about the FDA by the way I think people would be far more scrutinizing of the medicines they took
00:53:54
if it didn't come with the crowding out effect of that individual level of self-responsibility and due diligence
00:54:01
that the government wasn't doing but now we live in the worst of all worlds where
00:54:04
we have neither the government's neither actually protecting nor actually providing the space for individual
00:54:09
responsibility I just wanted to hear you know you make a statement you collect data one in a hundred you say you'll
00:54:15
change your mind I just want to understand with all the data the past the present and probably
00:54:20
who knows every every incremental day we see something new what is the full 360 degree view that Vivek ramaswamy has of
00:54:29
Donald Trump full 360 degree view got it yeah I actually haven't had a space to articulate this yet so I I think this I
00:54:36
think is useful so my view is that he was a successful president measured by Reviving the economy
00:54:45
sex over president period how why do I say that Reviving The Economy growing the
00:54:51
American economy I think that recognizing and speaking to and partially addressing concerns that had
00:54:58
been historically unaddressed by both both major political parties we did not enter a major war we were on the brink
00:55:05
of major conflict with North Korea on the precipice in other parts of the world Isis was a thing it is you know by
00:55:12
it exists but it's by and large not the same threat that it was after his presidency as it was when he took over
00:55:17
these are major accomplishments right I think the immigration crisis I think is far worse today precisely because
00:55:24
Biden's in office and not Trump so I believe he was a successful president that's view number one view number two
00:55:33
he has an effect on people about 30 percent of this country that I think becomes
00:55:40
psychiatrically ill when he is the U.S president I I think it's just a fact right
00:55:46
agreeing with things that they otherwise wouldn't have agreed with because the 30
00:55:49
number applies on our pod too one in four well I think that I think it's just it's
00:55:56
just the reality is people lose their ability to process information people lose the ability to
00:56:02
think independently it's like a demonic possession that happens in this country of about as best I can tell about 30 of
00:56:09
the country and I think that's not good for the country and we can debate who's to blame for that or whatever but I'm
00:56:14
just stating in an observation that I feel pretty strongly about and so I think most of Trump's policies
00:56:19
were good do I have some policy disagreements with them of course I do it would be weird if any two people
00:56:23
agreed on 100 of things I would re-enter the cptpp he exited the TPP I think his
00:56:29
exit of the TPP gives us a stronger negotiating position with Malaysia and Japan to you know fix some of the micro
00:56:34
things that we might have wanted China's not in the TPP that's part of the path to actually declare economic
00:56:39
independence from China if it comes to that we could go into a lot of different details I would have rescinded the
00:56:44
affirmative action executive order that Lyndon signed that I asked Trump's people why they didn't they said it was
00:56:48
a political Hill they didn't want to die on I'd shut down the Department of Education we can go on but broadly
00:56:55
he was a successful president with whom I mostly agree on his broad policy vision and especially his handling did
00:57:00
he get wrong and what and was the election stolen yeah so so I mean I gave you like small examples of what he got
00:57:07
wrong but I think the real character the real thing that he got wrong I'm not sure that getting wrong is the
00:57:14
even framing it's just a fact that 30 of this country became psychiatrically ill
00:57:19
and you're the leader of this country you're leading a nation and so you could decide whose fault that is but I believe
00:57:24
leaders are ultimately judged by their results and for whatever reason even when I'm
00:57:29
saying the same things that Trump often did as a matter of policy or foreign policy or domestic economic policy
00:57:37
maybe it's because people don't don't yet know me broadly but I don't think that's it actually
00:57:42
I don't think I'm having that effect on people and I think that that's why I'm in this
00:57:47
race to carry forward Unapologetic George Washington America First policies and to do so more successfully but also
00:57:55
in a way that unites the country around that Vision more so than Donald Trump ever did or could in a second term
00:58:01
was the election stolen here's the sense in which I think the election was stolen in a data-driven way
00:58:08
I have not seen any data to suggest that the ballot fraud or anything like that would have been sufficient to overturn
00:58:15
the ballot count of the ballots I've not seen any evidence to that effect what I do see is
00:58:23
hard evidence that people in this country would have elected a different president who's that
00:58:31
I like who's that this is tally this is child number five number five she's cute but number one in
00:58:39
our hearts oh you can't say that that's nice all right so continue that's your name I would say
00:58:45
hey I have I'm away from my sons these guys next last few days so I I you know I'm happy for you hopefully we'll be
00:58:53
with our little guys soon you know what I was saying is let me get to the punch line the sense in which the election was
00:58:58
stolen was the hunter Biden laptop story and the systematic suppression of information I
00:59:04
think that there is no doubt that is no doubt I think that the evidence strongly
00:59:09
suggests that Trump would have been elected and not Biden had we actually a voter base that had access to that
00:59:17
information and I think that that is something that we ought to learn from and I think that
00:59:21
it does cast a lot of doubt and frustration on the legitimacy of the election let me double click on that uh
00:59:28
you seem to have said on other programs I've heard you at least a half dozen times talk about uh deep space deep
00:59:34
state conspiracy trying to frame Donald Trump Federal indictment of the 37 criminal
00:59:41
charges for the stolen documents refusing to give them back you got the New York case 34 more felony accounts
00:59:48
we're about to have another one drop on January 6th you got the Georgia where he
00:59:53
tried to get people to get 10 000 more votes he got the New York case where CFO is going to jail
00:59:59
you got him guilty of sexual assault and then you got latita James's suing the Trump organization of these seven
01:00:07
are all seven a deep state conspiracy I think it's it's a collective anaphylactic immune response to an
01:00:16
antigen that challenged the system if you do anything wrong you think well seven of these cases he's scot-free and
01:00:23
it's just that I want to be really clear about something I'm running for U.S president in this race against Donald
01:00:29
Trump because I'm the best position to lead this nation forward because I think he's guilty of any of these seven I
01:00:34
would have made I would have made very different judgments than he did but I think criminalizing bad judgments
01:00:38
especially when done so against political opponents in the midst of a presidential election is an awful
01:00:44
judgment for a U.S president and the Department of Justice underneath him to make
01:00:49
do you think that the Department of Justice and the person he put in charge of it they're all conspiring and that he
01:00:56
didn't do anything wrong well there's like a lot in that statement right sure does he did he do
01:01:02
things that I think are reprehensible that I wouldn't have done yeah I think so I mean as they exist
01:01:08
absolutely do I think that Biden and a lot of other politicians who have come have done things that I would have done
01:01:15
differently and actually think we're wrong decisions absolutely but do I think that conflating a bad
01:01:21
judgment with a breakage of law is a risk to our future I think it is do you think he sent those people to I mean
01:01:30
January 6th I don't think he did no no I mean to March down there and when he told the proud boys to stand by and
01:01:38
stand back you don't think that he was inciting them let me just say I'm not here to
01:01:44
defend the Donald Trump's behavior I'm running for U.S president I think we need to but I think your opinion on it I
01:01:49
don't think yeah but my opinion on this matters yes I want to be very clear about the hat that I'm wearing I would
01:01:53
not have done what he did but he was very clear I mean you look at the transcripts you run the spies I have
01:01:59
First Amendment Scholars just to check my I mean inciting violence is not protected speech by the First Amendment
01:02:05
there's no sense in which when he tells people to peacefully make their way to the Capitol that does not meet any
01:02:11
Supreme Court test for what constitutes inciting violence in this country I think that let's just take let's take
01:02:17
the New York example I mean some of the stuff the details actually let's take the Oath Keepers one because that
01:02:21
Foundation First hold on let me get my first Oath Keepers founder Stuart Rhodes got 18
01:02:28
years do you think that the justice department did that because they're trying to frame Trump
01:02:32
and you and Trump told The Oath Keepers to stand by and to stand back do you think he incited The Oath Keepers yes or
01:02:39
no based on the facts that I have seen I've seen no evidence of that you're delusional
01:02:47
stand by okay so I'm also there's also an indictment that hasn't been brought so
01:02:53
I've offered my opinion no the first two indictments that have been brought against him right sure I read them I
01:02:58
read all 49 pages in the last one I'm responsive to facts yeah on the first two indictments I think they're
01:03:05
absolutely politically based and I can go through the if you're interested we can go into the specifications
01:03:12
you know on New York right I mean I'll just give you a light on each right okay in New York
01:03:19
let's take a fact that it's a state offense that was up charged to a felony and outside the statute of limitations
01:03:25
only by tying it to an alleged federal crime and what was that federal crime failing to report a hush money payment
01:03:33
to a porn star as a campaign contribution there would be a stronger case for using and paying hush money and
01:03:40
using campaign funds to do it that that was a federal campaign Finance law violation then not actually counting it
01:03:46
so so many accounts that the politicized prosecution against anybody else they would have brought it documents case
01:03:52
a 49-page indictment read it twice that does not once mention the presidential records act the most relevant statute
01:04:00
that talks about what the basis is for president to keep documents or not and instead charges him according to I think
01:04:06
one of the most Un-American laws in U.S history passed during World War One to silence World War One dissenters
01:04:13
including Eugene V Debs who Eugene V Debs who was actually put in prison over this I have long argued that that was a
01:04:20
statute that should have long been over should have been rescinded that's now being used to charge a crime rather than
01:04:25
even more precise crime so I tend to be very responsive maybe to the point of frustration of being technical on these
01:04:31
things but I believe facts and law actually matter I think that if Trump was the best guy for the job I wouldn't
01:04:37
be running in this race if Ronald Reagan were alive and well today I would not be
01:04:41
running in this race I want to just go back to the I have a question I have a question about these
01:04:49
Trump scandals do you think that's one of the seven well I think do you think Trump should
01:04:54
be indicted for Donald Trump Jr being paid 83 000 a month to serve on the board of a Ukrainian Energy company
01:05:01
despite having no energy expertise oh wait that's Hunter and his personal life being in crisis because he's a drug
01:05:07
addict him getting that job three months after his father approved a and backed a coup
01:05:14
against Ukrainian government do you think that Donald Trump Jr should be investigated for that and David is this
01:05:21
is this also after uh that Donald Trump then sends 200 billion dollars of U.S taxpayer money to that very country
01:05:28
after he's elected an office I think that's the strongest of the scandals I've heard so far so you believe Biden
01:05:35
is a great ways what do you think of Jared Kushner getting taking down 2 billion from the
01:05:42
Saudis after he walked out of the White House I I don't have that's not a matter that
01:05:49
I have views on so you don't have views on that but you got plenty of views on Trump because he's not in government
01:05:54
he's not in government okay let's move on past troll because this is a great example of why I'm in this race yeah I'm
01:06:01
telling you this is there something about the existence of Donald Trump exactly can't get away from Criminal
01:06:06
Minds that deflects our ability yeah criminal behavior and trying to carry forward the agenda of this country much
01:06:13
of which was Trump's own agenda so Vivek in order to win this candidacy and the reason I brought up the Politico uh
01:06:20
publication this morning obviously there was a bit of tongue-in-cheek on the effusiveness but the the key point being
01:06:26
made was you have no chance of winning and that you shouldn't be in the race at all
01:06:31
now look I I'd like to that was the thesis of the piece what's interesting is where it's coming from right it's
01:06:38
coming from The Establishment voice and I think we'd like to hear just a little bit around your political strategy what
01:06:46
is your intention around Building Bridges and ties to the Republican establishment to support your candidacy
01:06:53
here or does the or does the Republican establishment largely sit on the sidelines right now and wait to see who
01:07:00
emerges with this popular movement and and who's out there you're obviously running an incredible campaign on the
01:07:06
road very active very vocal and as everyone says probably by far the most articulate and most thoughtful and most
01:07:13
intelligent of the candidates in the race today but lacking experience lacking connections not part of the
01:07:20
establishment and as a result cast in this negative light consistently by the um by these sorts of writers so what is
01:07:27
your strategy to win this race given me is it not important as Trump showed in the last election cycle to have those
01:07:34
Republican establishment ties or are you going to be building bridges and then my
01:07:38
follow-up question is if you don't win what are you going to do so yeah so yeah let me uh let me address the first it's
01:07:45
basically in the camp that I don't think it's the voters that ultimately matter not the people who have appointed
01:07:51
themselves in the reigning establishment or it's not even the establishment anymore it's an outdated establishment
01:07:57
that I don't think actually is going to influence meaningfully the result of this election except for one respect
01:08:02
which is money which I'll get back to so the area where we're punching above our weight right debates haven't even
01:08:09
happened yet in at least in the last week I'm third in most of the national polls
01:08:13
this is well ahead of even where we planned to be right we planned it to be in third by November December ahead of
01:08:19
the Iowa caucuses out of New Hampshire overperform expectations in both of those use the momentum to then win the
01:08:24
race that was broadly the strategy with the debate stages the play as the way where I would steadily work my way into
01:08:29
that I think we're just now on a different curve where you know we might be in second place by then and by a
01:08:35
smaller margin Than People expected I think the debate stage is critical the campaign strategy is actually to combine
01:08:41
the initial investment that because I've lived the American dream I've was able to make but to combine that with a true
01:08:48
Grassroots uplift we've got close to 70 000 maybe more I have to check the exact
01:08:52
numbers unique donors already yeah former you know vice presidents or other candidates that are you know well on
01:08:59
their way and struggling by some measures to get to 40 000 which is the threshold for the first debate so our
01:09:04
strategy is very much a Grassroots strategy I've done more campaign events than anybody in the Republican field and
01:09:10
so this is our strategy is very Grassroots driven I said I'm punching above my weight in terms of events
01:09:17
unique donations polling the one area where I'm punching below weight is large-scale donations so we are not
01:09:27
raising Mass numbers of large check external funds yet into the campaign my super Pacs or I don't have it I mean
01:09:34
whatever they're independent expenditures I don't there's an entity that exists out there that's been
01:09:38
affiliated with me has based on public reports uh tiny amounts of money compared to
01:09:45
those that are supporting and all in for candidates from Tim Scott to Ron DeSantis and that's also a reality right
01:09:52
and I think that that comes with competitive advantages and disadvantages there are two sides of the same coin I
01:09:57
think I am at Liberty total Liberty I feel totally unconstrained to pursue the strategy
01:10:03
that David mentioned earlier which is that I'm reacting in real time to what I believe have you been surprised by
01:10:11
the lack of clarity maybe of the DeSantis campaign in really creating a pathway through Trump and if you are surprised
01:10:22
what do you think he's doing wrong if you have to critique it yeah I'm not surprised because you know I know him
01:10:29
and I think he's a good executor right I think he has been a I disagree with some other people on
01:10:35
this I think he's been quite an effective governor I think that when you're talking about
01:10:40
and Scott Walker in the last cycle was quite an effective governor and for the same reasons that people believed Scott
01:10:46
Walker was going to be the runaway nominee last time around I think that people naturally gravitate people think
01:10:51
they want somebody who has done something as an effective executor but when it comes to the U.S presidency I
01:10:58
think it's a unique role where what matters is actually having a vision for where we are going
01:11:03
right and so I'm not uh with I don't without saying things that are interpreted as being mean about somebody
01:11:09
else or not I know all of these people have known them for a long time I've shared stages with them over the course
01:11:14
of my woke Inc book tour and nation of victims book tour I'm not surprised with how things are
01:11:21
going in this race you know I said we expected to be where we are in November we're here in July I'm not surprised
01:11:26
that we're doing well I understand how audiences across this country responded to my message in wilkink I'm not
01:11:31
surprised that they're continuing to respond well to Trump I think there's nothing surprising about where we are in
01:11:36
this race right now and so you're not surprised because because DeSantis is a competent administrator but that is a
01:11:44
great job as Governor but not the bill of goods for the president I'm really at a point of this race
01:11:54
but to be honest with you I think I think there's a lot of Truth to what you said yeah don't you think part of it
01:11:58
though is that Trump has singled out DeSantis as the one candidate who he's gonna beat the hell out of I mean I
01:12:05
don't think so David actually I'll tell you why um he has not attacked you Trump's actually
01:12:11
said good things about you yeah he's not attacked anybody else in this race actually yeah have you spent time with
01:12:17
Trump I know all these guys I know all of you spend time with Trump when's the last time you talked to him not a
01:12:21
serious amount of time I've spent more time with DeSantis than I have with them at once yeah when this is long before I
01:12:28
was running for president but um we had dinner and tried to build Bridges with you
01:12:35
I mean most of us when we intersect each other were speaking at the same forums the NRA the family leader thing that
01:12:41
Tucker did backstage we have interactions with all the other candidates and I'd like to think I'm
01:12:44
friendly with everybody uh you know I don't know how you know I haven't talked to Ron recently but I've
01:12:49
talked to him more before but I think the reality is uh you know so Dave what you said is definitely true
01:12:56
and I'm not in this to be a political analyst right I'm in this to State what my beliefs are say who I am and people
01:13:01
can vote for me or not but I actually do think I I don't think that Trump's commentary on the other candidates is
01:13:07
having so much of an effect I think voters many people who are maybe initially behind the sand is I know many
01:13:13
of them are people who are part of that traditional establishment that didn't want that most of them didn't want to
01:13:17
have nothing to do with Trump but decided that that was the next best thing so I don't think that Trump's
01:13:22
attacks are going to persuade them one way or another I think it comes down to the study of
01:13:26
what happened in 2016. right Scott Walker great Governor really respect the guy and I like what he's doing in his
01:13:32
post elected office life as well but everybody has a role to play in Reviving this country
01:13:38
and I think we all have to look ourselves in the mirror and ask ourselves how are we gonna make our
01:13:43
unique contribution and I think it's going to require Governors who are effective implementers
01:13:48
of a vision that makes their states thrive I think Governor says it's done a really
01:13:54
good job of that I think Christy gnome has done a really good job of that I think there are people who hopefully
01:13:59
will continue to have an impact on our culture outside of government altogether there's a really important role for that
01:14:05
Jason I think that's my answer to your other question uh which I forgot to answer can I go back to two things that
01:14:11
you mentioned just in passing but I just want you to clarify your thoughts on them
01:14:16
one is you said you would abolish the Department of Education and I thought I'd never heard anybody say that really
01:14:22
so could you just expand on that what you mean and then the second I'd love for you to talk about some of
01:14:29
these Supreme Court decisions that have come in the last little while specifically
01:14:35
the abortion debate the affirmative action debate the rights of businesses to not service people that whose ideology
01:14:44
they disagree with and then sorry the third point is maybe use that last part as a jumping off point I'd love for you
01:14:49
to understand your position on lgbtq the role of the trans movement what's happening in schools those are the three
01:14:59
kind of big chunky areas that that I think are worth talking about if you if you can just give a few minutes yeah
01:15:03
there's a lot there yeah so so so let me if I skip over something bring me back so
01:15:10
Department of Education I think the federal government is not as a factual matter directly involved in
01:15:15
education I think it is a therefore a deadweight waste for money to cycle from the taxpayers to the Federal Department
01:15:21
of Education to then disburse those funds inefficiently as they do tilting the scales to four-year college degrees
01:15:27
over choices that people might have otherwise made that are better choices for them vocational training one year
01:15:33
two year programs using it as a cudgel and this relates to the bladder issue you asked about to tell Local Schools
01:15:39
they don't get that money unless they're adopting what I certainly view is toxic
01:15:43
racial and gender ideology-based agendas they use the money as a cudgel to do it
01:15:48
so I've said that that department that spends about 80 billion dollars of taxpayer money I'll shut it down tonight
01:15:54
in New Hampshire I'm laying out the anatomy of exactly how we'll shut it down and then return that money to the states
01:16:00
to the people put it in parents pockets very specifically you have to be a state
01:16:05
that has a school choice program in order to receive that Department of Education shutdown dividend I think that
01:16:11
if you're such a state I would also believe that those States need to write their teachers union teachers contracts
01:16:16
in a way that stop teachers from joining teachers unions which I think have been a destructive force on our
01:16:22
Public Schools if you're unionizing against the public think about who you're unionizing against the very kids
01:16:28
you're supposed to represent now we have transparency we have choice if you teach
01:16:31
it in the classroom put it online and then there's an interesting fact in this country where I think you guys will
01:16:37
appreciate how bizarre this fact really is there's not only like a failed positive
01:16:44
correlation there is a negative correlation an inverse correlation between how much money per student a
01:16:52
public school spends and the actual outcomes that that school achieves for its students
01:17:00
so in my version of school choice my preferred version it would not just be that parents get to get these
01:17:06
vouchers and educational savings accounts to send their kids to some other school that's part of the story
01:17:09
it's a first step but I think any parent who moves to a school that spends less per student which we
01:17:17
know based on the data is actually all the SQL a better performing school as it relates to achievement
01:17:23
should be able to take half the Delta with them so to take Chicago or Pennsylvania spending 35 40 000 per
01:17:28
student 15 miles away you have a school spending 15 to 20 000 per student I think they
01:17:34
should be able to take half the difference that ten to fifteen thousand dollar half that difference up to twenty
01:17:38
thousand say ten thousand dollars they take with them you run the math on normal investment returns you're talking
01:17:44
about a quarter Million Dollar Plus graduation gift when that kid graduates from 12th grade
01:17:49
so you tell me which is a better use of money it's not even close and I think the head of the same great
01:17:54
idea that's a great arbitrary did you come up with that idea or did is that synonymous actually another guy's an
01:18:02
arbitrager who's a friend but who shares similar instincts and like I'm like I'm
01:18:06
a value investor I believe it's a great incentive it just makes sense of the world yeah okay let's move past
01:18:13
education yeah I want to talk about the specifically the gay and the trans issue
01:18:18
um two questions one do you think it's normal to be gay and do you have any problem with people
01:18:23
being gay and then no I don't know so then the second of course talking about trans I heard you on Meet the
01:18:30
Press save the trans was a mental disorder which yeah you know it was in the dsm-4 I guess or whatever the latest
01:18:37
one was yeah just to a couple years ago and now it's changed so maybe explain why you think differently about those
01:18:45
two things one you think it's fine to be gay but you think it's a mental disorder
01:18:49
in all likelihood if people want to transition yeah so uh you know I want to leave you with a good
01:18:56
sense of where I'm at on on these issues right so I think it's at least curious that when you take the lgbtqia Plus
01:19:05
value set and vision for what the movement stands for it does require you to adopt
01:19:13
simultaneously conflicting beliefs at once right the gay rights movement was predicated
01:19:18
on the idea which I'm quite sympathetic to that the sex of the person that you're attracted to is hardwired on the
01:19:24
day you're born but now with the T component of that same movement that now says your own
01:19:28
gender is completely fluid over the course of your own life and I think if we're not
01:19:33
going to observe the tension between these two observations I think that we're purposefully having
01:19:38
our heads stuck in the sand I think what's happening in many cases is somebody who claims to be trans is
01:19:42
really just gay and part of what we're saying is it's not okay to begin so to answer your first question part of what
01:19:48
the trans movement is effectively telling people is that it's not okay to be gay you know who else says that Iran
01:19:53
actually Iran is a nation that if you are gay they force you to undergo gender conversion surgery it's not that
01:19:58
different than what's baked into the ideological premise of much of the trans movement here and so
01:20:03
I just want you to come from the fact there's a lot of people in the GOP will offer surface level stuff here I mean
01:20:09
I've spent a lot of time thinking about this gender dysphoria is what I've said is a
01:20:14
mental health disorder I've been very precise let's take the intersex case out of it kleinfelter
01:20:20
syndrome Jacob's syndrome right kleinfelter is xxy Jacob syndrome is x y y these are ultra rare
01:20:28
they exist they are real for the purpose of our discussion though it's under the
01:20:33
broad trans umbrella I'm going to take that out of it because that's not a mental health disorder that's a genetic
01:20:37
reality but now let's go back to the conflicting supposition there's no gay gene yet the
01:20:45
sex of the person you're attracted to we accept for civil rights purposes is hard
01:20:48
right and the day you're born yet there are X and Y chromosomes and yet your own biological sex slash gender
01:20:54
is now completely fluid over the course of your life there's a tension there and
01:20:58
I think that tension is best explained by the way we've treated it for most of our national history for most of our
01:21:04
medical history all the way through actually I think the DSM-5 not just the four as a mental health condition
01:21:10
and I think the compassionate thing to do is not to affirm especially when it's a kid to affirm a kid's computer
01:21:18
I think the compassionate thing to do is to recognize that there's some other psychological struggle manifesting
01:21:23
itself in this form and it is cruel to affirm that kid's confusion surgery or hormone surgery hormone
01:21:32
therapy exactly so you would limit that to when you're an old adult 18 years old
01:21:36
yes and you would base two women here in New Hampshire literally like where I am
01:21:40
right now yeah who are in their 20s that badly regret undergoing double mastectomies one of them underwent a
01:21:46
hysterectomy both of them underwent puberty so even if the parents and doctors agreed with it you would say
01:21:52
they can't make that decision for the child just like you can't get a tattoo before
01:21:56
the age of 18 in most what we say is a decision that you are likely to regret many in many cases at least
01:22:05
likely to regret later in life we let you make that decision as an adult and I do believe we live in a free society as
01:22:11
an adult you're free to identify how you want a free to wear what you want but kids aren't the same as adults and
01:22:19
even among adults there's a difference between living your life freely and expecting that everybody else
01:22:25
changes their linguistic and traditional understandings in sports and traditional
01:22:33
understandings in locker rooms and traditional understandings and language that's a difference and so I don't
01:22:40
believe in a tyranny of the majority but I don't believe in attorney of the minority either do you think this topic
01:22:44
is over indexed on right now and is a really important topic of this presidency or do you think this is like
01:22:48
some sort of culture wars thing that this actually isn't that important to the National discussion should be held
01:22:54
privately by currents I appreciate you asking that Jason is I think I feel this way about a lot of
01:22:59
the topics right from the position on that I think like why is this the most important topic yeah this
01:23:06
is this is interesting because it's a symptom it's interesting only to the extent that it is a symptom
01:23:13
of the deeper void of the deeper vacuum and I think the mental health epidemic is not limited to
01:23:19
gender dysphoria anxiety depression drug usage fentanyl suicide these let's have
01:23:25
the conversation more holistically these are symptoms of the deeper void and all
01:23:30
I care about is running through these topics without somebody holding the line of defense by stopping us to get to a
01:23:35
discussion about that void to say no this is exactly what that kid is and you're wrong to think about as a mental
01:23:40
health disorder I think that's unproductive because if it stops us from getting the truth over
01:23:45
the years it's been the case that young people tend to orient to being counter-cultural or anti-establishment
01:23:54
generally speaking it's part of the psychological seasoning of a human to be against the parents against the system
01:24:02
and ultimately to create Independence for oneself and that's typically counter to what came before it and it has
01:24:08
manifested in every generation with this point of view that there is some psychological torment that has taken
01:24:14
over the young people that is causing them to act out from beatniks to hippies to punks to goth to emo and every
01:24:23
generation had some cultural representation is your point of view that gender dysphoria is the current
01:24:29
manifestation of that pattern of behavior that we've seen over the generations that's not exactly my view my view is
01:24:37
that it's not limited to young people I think there's something unique going on in America right now
01:24:44
it's true of all of us it was some sense some of this comes from self-reflection but I think it's
01:24:51
it's true for most of us that were hungry to be part of something bigger than ourselves
01:24:58
yet we cannot even answer what it means to be an American or what it means to believe in God or what God
01:25:05
is and we have come up with new false Idols that substitute for that so you want to
01:25:11
talk about generational history I mean you know Moses by the time he comes down from the Mountaintop you got the golden
01:25:15
calf Israelites are lost in the desert they say they want to go back and be ruled by the Pharaoh yeah I think the
01:25:21
historical Trend I'm talking about is a slightly different one and maybe has a longer Arc to it than the one you're
01:25:26
talking about but I but am I diagnosis is not specific to young people it's specific to where we are in
01:25:33
a National History when like a bunch of blind bats in a cave right how does a bat figure out where it is it sends out
01:25:40
echolocation signals sonar signals that come back and say this is where I am I think we human beings are wired to do
01:25:47
the same thing and the pillars the walls the fixed points of truth from family to Faith to
01:25:53
patriotism to hard work to individual Pride the things that used to ground us when those things disappear
01:26:00
we're now sending out these signals and then nothing's coming back and so we're making up new pillars instead and maybe
01:26:06
one of them is a trans flag and maybe one of them is a Ukraine flag and maybe one of them is a climate cult and maybe
01:26:12
one of them is a racial intersectional hierarchy and maybe one of them is fentanyl but I think that that's
01:26:19
foreign agreement with you and Jason that I think we sometimes get too hung up both
01:26:26
sides maybe Republicans a lot so right now on the symptoms without getting to a deeper discussion
01:26:32
of the deeper cancer the deeper void that we need to fill and that's what I'm interested in brought up the Roe v Wade
01:26:39
issue I'm wondering what do you think is the most productive path forward for the
01:26:45
country in terms of of reasonable right to choose versus right to life argument because you personally feel that
01:26:53
abortion should be banned am I correct I am personally pro-life you're pro-life be able to get an abortion under any
01:27:00
circumstances or do you have rape inside of you as someone who's running for U.S
01:27:05
president and responding to the question about the Supreme Court case is that Roe
01:27:08
versus Wade was correct to be overturned on constitutional grounds okay fine it was it was made
01:27:14
but but it leads also to the path for moving forward which is that I think the federal government should stay out of it
01:27:20
and so there's a discussion amongst Republicans I think I'm the only Republican candidate in this field who
01:27:26
has come out and said that I would not support a federal abortion ban of any kind on principled ground because
01:27:34
to me I am grounded in constitutional principles and I think there's no legal basis for the federal government to
01:27:40
legislate here the 10th Amendment says that part of the American experiments we have diversity
01:27:46
across States and I think this is a state's issue now at the level of the states
01:27:52
I'm personally a believer that unborn Life Is Life I think that the pro-life movement needs to we need to walk the
01:27:59
walk when it comes to being pro-life what do I mean I'm pro-contraceception I'm pro-adoption I'm pro-child care I'm
01:28:07
pro-more sexual responsibility for men for God's sake we live in an era of genetic tests we can actually put more
01:28:13
responsibility on men this doesn't have to be and should not be a men's versus women's rights issue and nobody on our
01:28:18
side is really talking about these issues I do because I don't think this has to be as divisive as we've made it
01:28:23
out to be but I can almost prove to you that more people in this country share my instincts than are willing to admit
01:28:29
it there's a case you know Clarence Thomas brought it up of pregnant woman walking down the street
01:28:34
she's assaulted the unborn child dies as a result I haven't met and I have many liberal
01:28:43
friends most most of my friends growing up have been you know have different political Persuasions than I have now
01:28:48
I haven't been a single one of my liberal friends or otherwise who says that that criminal does not
01:28:54
deserve liability for that death and so I I just think more of a leadership if one state wants
01:29:01
to ban it they can ban it if another state wants to have a 24-week rule they could have a 24-week rule that's that's
01:29:07
you I like other Republican candidates I will not be signing a federal abortion ban unconstitutional States and I remain
01:29:13
open to persuasion if some legal scholar convinces me that the U.S Constitution gives the federal government the
01:29:19
authority to sign that into law so be it but I have not been so convinced and I think many other principled
01:29:24
constitutionalists haven't been convinced even though the other Republican field has all best candidate
01:29:30
in this race has said they would sign one what is your thought on just the gross tonnage of dollars that we spend
01:29:34
on the military and defense and Espionage and you know internal external security and then when
01:29:44
it goes bump up against civil liberties just give us your kind of framing on how you think about those
01:29:49
sets of issues around National level security but where and personal personal privacy so I'm uh I I for more of my
01:29:57
life than not identified as a Libertarian than a conservative and I still have all of those libertarian
01:30:02
instincts in my core it's just that I care about more issues than Libertarians care about because libertarianism is all
01:30:08
about the relationship between the state and the individual and I actually do care about culture and the fabric of a
01:30:14
society outside of government too it's a long way of saying I'm deeply skeptical
01:30:18
of the National Security establishment I was deeply skeptical of the Iraq War at
01:30:23
the time I think I am today in retrospect I was deeply skeptical that prisoners in Guantanamo Bay should have
01:30:28
been denied constitutional due process rights when that's exactly what enshrines the
01:30:34
justice system that we otherwise believe in I would pardon Julian Assange I would
01:30:39
pardon Edward Snowden I've committed to a long list of Pardons of people who have taken steps to expose corruption
01:30:46
that we otherwise would not have seen in this country and I think part of the reason why is
01:30:52
there's a weird corporate analogy here we're talking about companies and finding their purpose in coinbase I
01:30:58
think there's a version of that going on in the US Military I think the US military has lost its
01:31:02
sense of purpose actually and so my view is the purpose of the US military is to secure Americans on
01:31:09
American soil to make sure that we when necessary win Wars and more importantly deter Wars
01:31:15
and I think part of what you see in the loss of you know people complain about wokeness in the military Etc these are
01:31:19
against symptoms of a deeper loss of purpose of an institution not that much different than a company
01:31:25
but my view is I'm not in the same way with the immigration debate I'm I don't engage in this what's the cap you know
01:31:32
higher or lower it's the wrong debate Merit purpose what are we achieving I feel the same way about the military
01:31:37
it's not a higher lower discussion it's a what are we doing discussion and I think there is a legitimate case for the
01:31:44
U.S to have and continue to have the strongest military in the world but I think that deputizing that
01:31:50
military to fight Wars that are really deflection tactics often for our own ailments at home I think it has been a
01:31:57
mistake and we're at risk of making those same mistakes again right now most pertinently in Ukraine unless we learn
01:32:03
from those past mistakes I want to ask you about the division within the Republican party on this specifically
01:32:09
Ukraine so at turning point which you just spoke at and I think you did very well in the straw poll there you had
01:32:15
Tucker interviewing Mike Pence asking him why should we prioritize Ukraine over our own cities that are
01:32:24
increasingly broken down you've got homeless people living on the streets you've got this price of drug addiction
01:32:30
you've got rampant crime you've got schools that are terrible and yet Ukraine seems to be this fixation of the
01:32:39
unit party in Washington and and Pence gave this totally dunderheaded answer or something like that's not my concern
01:32:46
which I guess his apologist said afterwards that well no he was talking about something else he wasn't saying that
01:32:53
American cities weren't as concerned which even if you grant that was the case means that he wasn't really paying
01:32:59
attention to Tucker's question but then you also had Tim Scott say something it was definitely a better
01:33:07
phrase than what Penn said but basically said that he thought it was a good idea
01:33:11
for us to be giving all this money to Ukraine because degrading Russia's military was a good deal for
01:33:17
the United States you know by which degrade I assume means killing Russian boys and you've heard Lindsey Graham say
01:33:25
this sort of thing then I had this Republican pollster named Patrick raffini who I didn't really know before but he's
01:33:34
apparently a republican pollster he's got Slava Ukrainian his bio I'm not quite sure what's motivating that but he
01:33:40
tweeted at me saying that Ukraine is like number 17 on a list of GOP voter priorities despite efforts by the likes
01:33:47
of Carlson and sax to make it a thing notice how it almost never gets brought up on the trail unless Tucker is there
01:33:53
my response to him was to post a quote from Mitch McConnell saying that Ukraine is the number one
01:34:01
priority of the GOP right I'm like you're making my point for me I know that it's number 17 in the eyes of
01:34:08
Voters in our party in terms of what they think we should be focused on but it's number one in the minds of Mitch
01:34:15
McConnell and Pence and Scott and Nikki Haley and you know Lindsey Graham these people are obsessed with this idea
01:34:24
so I guess you know a what is your reaction to that b how are we going to change this I mean it just seems like
01:34:31
there's something fundamentally broken in our party when the base understands that we should
01:34:36
not be focused on Ukraine focused on our own borders our own cities as opposed to
01:34:42
some Far Away lands borders and cities and then also in that same Turning Point poll
01:34:48
95 of the attendees at a conference were opposed to U.S involvement in Ukraine it was the single highest number
01:34:57
for anything they pulled on I think Trump got like an 85 approval opposition to Ukraine Got 95 so clearly there is a
01:35:05
fundamental divide between what the establishment or Elite of the party thinks and what the base thinks yep what
01:35:12
is your explanation for that and how does that ever get solved I mean how are we going to fix it I'm
01:35:17
going to give you a facile answer David it has to do with why we're doing what we're doing
01:35:23
I want to be elected the next president I think I will be and I think reflecting
01:35:26
the will of the people in the way this country is governed is part of how our system is actually supposed to work both
01:35:33
in the primary and in the general election and so United we're sitting in different seats but I'm sitting in the
01:35:38
seat that I am now precisely because I think somebody needs to actually step up and fix it when most of the Republican
01:35:44
party has locked Stock and Barrel for all of their criticisms abide none the most important foreign policy matter of
01:35:51
right now have Lock Stock and Barrel adopted what is effectively the Biden position which is mysterious and it's
01:35:57
interesting now I think that it has become a a sort of a a fixation not because these candidates
01:36:08
I think have arrived at this Viewpoint independently through reasoning their way to it but just understanding that
01:36:15
that's what they are supposed to say in the tradition of a party that was historically based on projecting hard
01:36:22
power through deterring the USSR not recognizing the fact that people sometimes seem to forget this fact the
01:36:29
USSR doesn't exist anymore and NATO which is created to contain the USSR has now expanded far more after the fall of
01:36:36
the USSR than it did before which is itself a symptom of a Republican party that still sometimes
01:36:45
militarism it's a muscle memory what about the influence of the military-industrial complex do you think
01:36:51
somehow like it's related to donors like what do you mean yeah so I'm I'm a I'm very open-minded to and I'm getting
01:36:59
the signal that so we're going to this um event where we're meeting with parents of
01:37:05
kids who have died as a consequence of Fentanyl and I don't want to keep them waiting longer than uh than we need to
01:37:13
but if you guys are down to do this again this has been a lot of fun this has been
01:37:17
great we gave us 90 minutes it's fantastic we can let me just answer David's last Dave what was your last
01:37:22
question wait no no I have a better question just that last question number one are you vaccinated against
01:37:27
covid number two what do you think of fauci and what could we have done differently
01:37:33
I mean you're a man of science so I'm just curious what you think about the whole thing
01:37:37
great question so I am vaccinated against covid had I had the facts that I do now as a young thankfully healthy
01:37:44
male I would not have actually chosen to get vaccinated I think that Anthony fauci betrays
01:37:51
science by substituting the scientific method which depends on free speech and open debate
01:37:58
and inquiry with authority which is actually fundamentally anti-scientific at its core and I think one of our main
01:38:05
lessons to have learned from the pandemic and I hope we do learn it in the future is that it is precisely in
01:38:11
times of emergency that Free Speech becomes most important I think if we had been able to debate in the open the
01:38:17
merits of lockdowns for children we would not have locked down our schools I think we had been able to debate the
01:38:22
open what the origin of the pandemic was a lab and Wuhan appears to be the overwhelming it's the truth I mean we we
01:38:28
know that that's exactly the most likely to correct explanation it's in the name
01:38:33
it really is but but it was a name you couldn't have said at that you couldn't call it you couldn't name the
01:38:38
Unspeakable City for which the virus originated so I think one of the top lessons is free speech and open debate
01:38:43
the path the truth runs through that science depends on the free exchange of ideas that's who we are and the beauty
01:38:49
is our country is founded on that very principle it's in the First Amendment for a reason
01:38:54
we'll let you get to your event but I just want to say thank you for being incredibly Dynamic and open and honest
01:39:03
it's really great to have guys like you to talk to it's I appreciate it guys if you guys
01:39:10
want to do it again I had a lot of fun too yeah thanks for not being like political
01:39:15
politicians speak and being so honest and taking on every single topic we asked you every single topic I think you
01:39:22
did a great job I appreciate it guys appreciate you take care guys thank you Vic we didn't talk about this did you
01:39:28
guys mention where you are or is that based on the number of buttons here I can tell you I'm in uh you know what I
01:39:35
can't dox myself because you know did I ever tell you the story about two years ago when I was in Italy and the stalkers
01:39:42
you [ __ ] told everybody you were there no I didn't everybody where I was at chamots beach club
01:39:49
it was ridiculous I took a picture of the ocean and in the corner of one of the towers was the logo of chamonte's
01:39:55
beach club and some guys found that logo on the towel did a Google image reverse search found the
01:40:04
beach club that chamat's part of and then showed up at the beach club while I was drinking
01:40:09
150 Dollar Bottles per second on two months account to pitch me their startup so I don't want to say exactly where I
01:40:16
am but I'm in Italy where are you guys me and Zach are at shouting distance from each other we're about to see each
01:40:21
other after this did I ever tell you guys the story about last summer when I was in Italy chamoth and I were walking
01:40:27
down the streets of Milan yeah do you ever tell the story no no no okay this was like the last time that Jake Allen
01:40:34
Friedberg were having a major Feud and it looked like the Pod was maybe about to break up so I mean for real breakup
01:40:40
number one yeah this is Breakup number one remember two or three I don't know but you guys are definitely feuding so
01:40:47
we're walking down the street and all of a sudden somebody stops us and he this is like a fan from I don't know like
01:41:04
and he stops Us in the street and takes a photo and the whole thing and as we're
01:41:09
walking away jamas says we better make this thing work because I like being famous
01:41:14
you can't go back you guys you guys grew this up because I like being it's a delicate balance fame or
01:41:24
being right for people who didn't get the joke last week I love Freeburg I'm trying to
01:41:30
develop a deep meaningful relationship with framework I love framework what do we think of vivac let's get back to the
01:41:34
you know brass tacks here RFK versus vivac we've now had two of the top five candidates and Chris Christie's agreed
01:41:41
to come on the mooch put me in touch I have to be honest with you RFK and he are more similar than they are different
01:41:47
on a lot of topics you know the Contours I think are are different on a few very specific ones
01:41:54
obviously but it's like these Outsider candidates I think have like a they're just they're a
01:42:01
breath of fresh air because I think and Vivek said it right the Heat and RFK they have nothing to lose so they just
01:42:08
tell you what they think they don't have to memorize anything because what they think is what they think and so you just
01:42:13
consistently get this cream of Consciousness and the more and more I hear from these kinds of candidates the
01:42:19
more and more they make sense and juxtaposed Against The Establishment candidates it's very Stark
01:42:25
would you consider Trump Saks um you know as being the sort of precursor to these two non-traditional candidates so
01:42:32
now we have three non-traditional candidates in the mix Trump Vivek and RFK and they all are shoot from the
01:42:39
hip here's what I honestly think and maybe more moderate and pragmatic in terms of their positions well sure I
01:42:46
mean Trump ran for office for president without having ever run for office before and so yeah as a Democrat he's a
01:42:53
Democrat who ran as a republican too amen and he moved the Republican party in a bunch of ways that were totally new
01:43:00
Trump's lasting impact I think is going to be on the Republican party I mean he moved the Republican party from an open
01:43:06
borders completely free trade sort of party warmongering mongering knee-jerk militarism neocon to being
01:43:16
anti-war wanting to have strong borders being at least skeptical of trade at least with China if not other countries
01:43:23
and I think he hasn't wanted to mess with entitlements he understands that's the third rail and very much against the
01:43:28
Paul Ryan wanting to touch those at least in a non-bipartisan way I think that for the Republicans to
01:43:36
take on those issues by themselves I think he understands a suicide they lose votes when you start taking on
01:43:42
entitlements and I think that what Trump also did which is really interesting is
01:43:45
that it cascaded a wave of self-reflection in a lot of other Western countries so Italy's more right
01:43:53
as a result the UK went right Spain looks like it's about to tip right the Dutch actually just lost their election
01:43:59
because of national border issues or you know that they dissolved their government so
01:44:06
there's like a real clear nationalism would you say it's more of the Nationalist inflection as opposed to the
01:44:13
globalist I mean that's right the Overton window I think changed quite a bit with Trump in the
01:44:18
mix because now you actually had this much more America First nationalist orientation as the alternative to this
01:44:24
sort of globalist whether it's neoliberalism or neoconservatism those two things have more in common
01:44:31
with each other than they do with this more nationalist populist approach right Freebird what did you think what was
01:44:38
your take oh I mean RFK obviously concerns you a bit because of the I don't want to use the conspiracy word
01:44:44
but let's just call it maybe you know his open-minded to he's open-minded to different theories
01:44:51
so where do you stand on RFK in relation to vivec today Freeburg obviously I I think he's
01:44:57
crafted his narrative in a way that can be broadly appealing and as I mentioned in our Tech stream I think also appeals
01:45:04
to the Trump base in a way it's a very smart campaign I think that the strategy the the positioning
01:45:14
Everything feels like it's hitting the mood of the moment and you know I I would argue like you
01:45:23
could probably call any election cycle any campaign one of two things it's a promise of what can I do for you
01:45:30
or how can I go and destroy the system that did bad for you and Trump RFK and by the way the higher the
01:45:40
magnitude of that statement the more appealing the candidate is I think vivec is doing a great job hitting
01:45:47
a reasonably High magnitude on the you know the system has failed us we need to go and fix these problems kind of moment
01:45:54
and and it's it's really good but I think it's really good for call it the audience that's engaged in
01:46:02
the intellectual debate around it not necessarily would you vote for vivec at this point I need to spend a little more
01:46:08
time with DeSantis to be honest and understand where he sits I I obviously have deep concerns about Biden
01:46:16
what would your concerns on Biden be his cognitive issues or the SP out of control spending I I don't think he's
01:46:23
running the country and I think that those who are there's absolutely no accountability and
01:46:28
discipline in what's going on with respect to spending as I mentioned vivec did not appeal to me in resolving that
01:46:33
concern either by the way he thinks we're going to grow our way out of it which is part of the premise of modern
01:46:38
monetary Theory which I think is a flood so you still don't have a candidate in terms of controlling spending yeah
01:46:45
yeah look I think the problem with Vivek is he's not going to be appealing to the
01:46:49
masses because he's so smart and so articulate that it doesn't have the the Trump
01:46:56
Basics the Trump Basics are insult the bad guy call yourself the best thing in the world make jokes and people might be
01:47:04
over that I think people might be over it I don't know good job are people over it
01:47:10
The Bullying the name calling the the bombastic Trump nature do you think people are over it you think that's
01:47:16
going to burn people out this election cycle well not if you look at the polls they're not on the Republican party I
01:47:22
think in the general they might I mean look I think right now it looks like we're on track to have a Biden Trump
01:47:28
rematch and right now Biden probably looks like he's going to win barring a recession happening or the Ukrainian
01:47:36
side collapsing in in the war right I mean I mean that indictment dropping sounds pretty you know like another
01:47:44
bombshell so do you think there's any chance no no no no no okay so what's your favorite moment you know from this
01:47:52
discussion was were there was there a standout moment for your sacks we thought sorry I want to hear yeah moth
01:47:58
would you vote for him are you still in rfk's Camp are you kind of still open-minded about everything I
01:48:05
wasn't sure what his campaign was about and and I come away pretty meaningfully intrigued about what
01:48:14
he had to say um I think that there are some fundamental issues that RFK has me on that I wanted bevec
01:48:22
to own and he he flirted with them but he didn't quite own them such as I think that the just like the
01:48:32
deconstruction of the military-industrial complex was is so definitive in RFK and it was it was
01:48:38
almost quite there with the vet but not quite there so I wish he would I wish he
01:48:41
would own that I think that the deconstruction of the Department of Education I need to think
01:48:47
more about about some of his ideas are frankly more compelling the pro-life pro-choice thing I think is very
01:48:55
complicated and I think you can go to this place of saying let the states choose but I I'm just not sure whether
01:49:03
that's the right ultimate solution and you know proposing some federal legislation or would you want to end up
01:49:10
on that you would want to end up like Europe like a certain number of weeks federally and then maybe some local laws
01:49:14
around abortion and right to choose I think that there is just like you you have to
01:49:20
fundament if you believe in personal freedom I think having an arbitrary definition
01:49:27
of what a person is and then what that freedom means to me is already the slippery slope and
01:49:33
so I have a real issue with that but I also agree with him about the actual decay of American society you know the
01:49:40
lack of religious institutions and the lack of family and purpose those two things above all others I think are
01:49:48
tearing this country apart because people substitute something for it was his point right it's leaving people
01:49:54
incredibly empty and so I just think that you have to have some of these fundamental protections sex what were
01:50:00
your favorite moments during this or or moments where you think he stood out or he shine at moments where you maybe have
01:50:06
some fundamental disagreement well okay there's a few issues let me um respond to so in terms of the vague
01:50:14
versus RFK Jr I think where Kennedy really shines is like jamas said when he talks about the military industrial
01:50:20
complex and I would say more generally RFK has this critique about regulatory capture which he describes as the
01:50:29
marriage of state power and corporate greed and included in that is what's happened to the FDA and big Pharma and
01:50:37
the whole government's response on covid and then he wraps in censorship as being the way that this rfk's
01:50:45
thoughts are very marriage of corporate greed and state power the way it defends
01:50:49
itself that and that's unacceptable so I think like on those issues I don't think
01:50:54
anybody speaks as deeply as RFK Jr now when it comes to the list if you're to like list out all the issues and where
01:51:03
Vivek is and where I am it's a pretty close match I mean I'm not aligned with him completely on every issue but I
01:51:09
think it would be pretty close and I do really appreciate where he's coming from
01:51:13
on Ukraine he's not afraid to just come right out and say the truth which is this is not an important enough American
01:51:20
interest to be spending hundreds of billions a year on I wish we had more time what an amazing moment let's
01:51:25
actually delve into that and particularly I wanted him to explain what was happening in the party because
01:51:30
there is a divide within the party between these like oxygenarian and sort of more establishment Republicans like
01:51:37
McConnell like Scott like pens the war machine the War Machine and then people like him and Trump and and you put Trump
01:51:44
in this category too who are resisting that so I would have liked to hear more about that what did you think of the
01:51:50
moment where I kind of pinned him and I said would you you so you wouldn't defend Ukraine but you would defend
01:51:55
Taiwan and he said yes for the next five years I would defend Taiwan because of the semiconductor I mean that I've never
01:52:02
heard a candidate say something that fragmatic here's my interpretation well it is pragmatic what he's basically
01:52:10
saying is that America right now is dependent on these chips these very sophisticated high-tech chips so many
01:52:15
conductor chips and not just like the low end ones the high-end chips that are made in Taiwan and that is a vital
01:52:21
American interest and until we alleviate ourselves or wean ourselves off that dependency by making them ourselves
01:52:28
we're securing some other Supply then we need Taiwan and so therefore we cannot allow it to fall into Chinese ants I'm
01:52:34
saying a lot more than he did but it's kind of an argument like saying chips is the new oil and as long as this is a
01:52:42
critical input into our economy we have to secure our supply I can understand the difference being Bush never said
01:52:48
we're going to the Middle East for oil he said we're going there for democracy so that that's what I thought was like
01:52:52
the very candid moment there sir yeah but what always happens is that when America has a vital interest you always
01:52:59
cloak it in Liberal rhetoric about rights and freedom and democracy and that kind of thing democracy but what's
01:53:06
frequently driving the decision is American interests underneath he's being explicit about it what he's basically
01:53:12
saying is as long as Americans yeah as long as America's got this dependency and we need Taiwan we better defend it
01:53:19
and protect it from falling into Chinese hands but once we don't have that interest then we don't
01:53:25
I can understand that position it's wild it was wild I mean refreshing for me and
01:53:29
actually was a highlight of the discussion there's a couple other things he touched on so we talked about the
01:53:33
other candidates I think he's being not disingenuous but maybe a little bit unfair to the
01:53:40
scientists I think there's no question that DeSantis alone has been singled out by Trump and not just Trump but Trump
01:53:47
surrogates to be relentlessly bashed on and this happens on social media it happens in speeches and talks all this
01:53:54
kind of stuff so they are going after the Sanchez and that has an effect for a reason he's number two right and
01:54:00
Trump clearly has pegged him as the biggest threat and that's why they're targeting him so that does have an
01:54:07
impact the advantage that someone like Vivek has in a way is that he doesn't have a record as an elected official and
01:54:14
so he can just go out there and speak freely on these issues and like I described on the show with him he goes
01:54:21
out there and inserts himself in the conversation when it makes his issue is going viral he jumps in and I think it's
01:54:28
very important that he's doing it so quickly because if you're a candidate and you wait till the next day
01:54:35
moves on you missed it right so yeah he's timing it perfectly so he hits The Sweet Spot there's only one way to do it
01:54:43
which is not to have surrogates not to have a process like because we're thinking it yeah well it's the
01:54:51
same thing with our portfolio companies right they run it through like all these
01:54:54
PR people and like a PR agency and it gets reviewed and by the time by the time it goes through his 10th draft it's
01:55:01
too late it doesn't go viral so he's running a social media campaign and it's very effective now I think that
01:55:07
DeSantis is running a different kind of campaign DeSantis actually has a record I think it's a fantastically successful
01:55:12
record as being the most successful governor in the country running the most successful state in the country so he's
01:55:19
out there with this idea that listen let's make America Florida yes so that's what he's campaigning on and so he is
01:55:27
going out there with kind of a pre-determined agenda and a person speech A playbook and it's different
01:55:35
than someone like Vivek who's letting the issues come to him and then he's responding as the issues come up
01:55:42
Vivek is living off the land and and that is all of that is free media for him it's free it's earned media and
01:55:49
Trump did the same thing in 2016 right every day he would figure out like what are the issues today and he could go out
01:55:56
and speak about them and you know you go all the way back to Pat Buchanan working for Richard Nixon
01:56:02
back in I think this is a 72 election something like that where every morning Buchanan and there's a couple other
01:56:07
speechwriters that opened the newspaper and find an issue or two and they would go to Nixon and say Here's your talking
01:56:14
points you know and so they would find an issue that back in those days was going viral and have the candidate speak
01:56:20
to it so they were Nimble and I think that's what they were doing and if you want to go viral in the social media
01:56:26
area that's what you have to do you have to lean into the issues where people are
01:56:30
talking about that day and and this is the thing is that I think Vivek knows how to do that Trump clearly knows how
01:56:36
to do it RFK knows how to do it RFK definitely knows how to do it there's social media every day they're trusting
01:56:43
topic native and that's the difference Freeburg did you have a highlight or a great moment or two from vivec things
01:56:48
that made you go huh I really appreciate this person or candidate during the discussion what I appreciated was that
01:56:56
we didn't see him like fall down on any topics and I think that his ability to go through the full discourse
01:57:06
with us for however long we went 90 minutes yeah hour 40 says a lot you know RFK junior did the same but again it's a
01:57:14
stark juxtaposition from what I have seen Biden do in terms of interview formats he his edited his
01:57:20
interviews are edited they're short and so yeah to be able to have this breadth but also have the data and be able to
01:57:27
pull it from the top of its head and not have speaking notes we gave him no questions ahead of time there's no
01:57:31
agenda of course not and I think it's great to see a candidate who can engage in that level of
01:57:37
discourse which was important and impressive for me I just hope it's broadly appealing and this by
01:57:43
the way I just want to repeat something I've said many times in the past there are two things I hate about
01:57:47
politics besides the relationship to a growing government the first is that people pick Politics
01:57:56
as a career and I think that that's ridiculous I think people in a democracy should have a private life and then they
01:58:03
should rotate into being civil servants and go and service that's right and so they were you know
01:58:11
had they had their jobs and their businesses and everything and they would rotate in and then they would rotate out
01:58:15
of government the fact that people can be a politician for 30 years is ridiculous and I think it leads to all
01:58:20
of the disincentives that have driven to a large government what I appreciate about Vivek and RFK Jr
01:58:27
is that they come at this from and even Trump they come at this from private life and they take their turn in
01:58:34
government and rotate out and that's why I I did not get him to answer the question around what would he do besides
01:58:39
being president if it didn't work out what's he going to do next the second thing I I don't like about Paul by the
01:58:44
way they're just on that point there's a lot of speculation about that within Republican circles this is something I
01:58:49
could we just didn't have time to get into vice president let me just finish it yeah let me just finish and then
01:58:53
we'll talk about it so sorry yeah let's come back to it but the second thing is just money in politics and I hate that
01:58:58
you can raise money and get votes just the general concept that you buy ad space and that you get people to change
01:59:05
their vote I think is the most I love that yeah but I think it's so [ __ ] up but what I like about what we just did
01:59:13
is we actually had a conversation with the candidate and people can just listen to the conversation that's the Old Town
01:59:18
Square that sax talks about that doesn't exist anymore because everything is chopped up and been sold as media bytes
01:59:24
on paid streams whereas what we just did is a free conversation with a guy that anyone can tune in and listen to and
01:59:29
learn about him and that's what I found most compelling is we had a real conversation instead of watching a 30
01:59:34
second advice what's the rumor Saxy poop yeah so sorry go ahead sex the knock on
01:59:39
the vague is that he's basically a trump surrogate and I mean Trump has said good
01:59:44
things about him Trump likes him to be out there clearly I mean Trump has all but said that so the idea is that Vivek
01:59:50
is out there and initially he's doing this less now but early on he was just launching broadside after broadside on
01:59:57
DeSantis and so the idea is that he's out there as a trump surrogate attacking the people Trump wants him to attack on
02:00:03
the whole saying good things about Trump and that he'll be rewarded for that somehow a cabinet position or a vice
02:00:10
president position people even now saying VP because he's doing so well or maybe he gets an endorsement for a
02:00:16
senate run or something like that so if we had more time I would ask him about this like service would have said no but
02:00:22
that's why I asked him specifically how much time have you spent with Trump and when's the last time he talked to him
02:00:27
and he was honest about that I've only spent like I had dinner with him before I was even a candidate so right I'm
02:00:31
wondering if there's some clandestine agreement with them through some back Channel
02:00:36
for him on his own accord I think well clearly his answer would be no I'm not a surrogate of my own
02:00:43
candidate and he probably is I mean so my guess on it is that you can go out there and act like a surrogate knowing
02:00:50
that Trump's going to like it and then you'll be rewarded you don't need to have an explicit deal to understand that
02:00:57
that would work out for you in that way can I respond to freeburg's point so you
02:01:00
know Friedberg you said you don't like the money aspect of politics and you don't like the sort of careerist aspect
02:01:05
of of politics I think what we're seeing with candidates like Vivek or RFK Jr or
02:01:11
Trump is candidates who are bucking those two Trends I mean clearly these are not lifelong politicians they have
02:01:18
maybe had a lifelong interest in politics but they're not like lifelong office holders or candidates for office
02:01:25
and then on the money side what they're all showing is something that we all know from our portfolio companies which
02:01:31
is that earn media is so much more valuable than paid media totally paid me a cost of Fortune and it doesn't really
02:01:38
work no one really wants to look at advertising they block it out so you spend a lot of money on advertising and
02:01:45
it never really gets you much compared to earned media which is you figure out a way to insert yourself in the news
02:01:50
cycle by appealing to people on issues that are being talked about you figure out how to kind of hit your wagon to
02:01:56
like you said Jason a trending topic and that's what all three of these candidates have done and it works so
02:02:01
well and I think the sort of the career politicians who are proceeding in this very kind of Playbook way which is we're
02:02:08
going to go out we're going to raise the most money from donors then we're going
02:02:10
to buy the most TV time and we're going to be on message I mean we're only going
02:02:15
to talk about the things we want to talk about the problem is that doesn't work anymore because earned media is so much
02:02:20
more valuable than paid media well look I hope that's a trend and I hope it flushes the money out of the system and
02:02:26
that candidates win based on the Merit of the conversation that they have in earned media instead of buying more ad
02:02:32
space on paid media and that it changes the game and I hope that the laws change
02:02:36
too and I also hope that the laws change with respect to Career politicians and term limits and all that sort of stuff
02:02:41
because this whole career system and money in this thing is what's driving so I understand one of the contributors and
02:02:47
government spending and government accountability and all the nonsense that goes on and I would love to see it
02:02:52
change I think the earned media is so valuable now that I think candidates who try to stay on their message on their
02:02:59
agenda it's going to cost too much money it's basically an unsustainable path I would urge all the Republican candidates
02:03:06
including DeSantis just to get out there by the way DeSantis is a tremendously smart man I mean he went to where is he
02:03:12
Harvard he's not on all in he's a lawyer where is he yeah to be fair I haven't asked him yet but why
02:03:19
yeah what's going on Chris Christie's coming on the last time I'm asking to do something we had technical difficulties
02:03:24
remember that it didn't go over too well just for the record uh the mooch who loves the fact that a unit of time
02:03:32
has been named after him from usags oh yeah any 11-day period is known as a mooch so if you have one of the lessons
02:03:38
yeah but he uh he literally introduced me to Governor Chris Christie over text so I'm
02:03:48
in touch with Chris Christie's coming on the Pod so that's three of the top six or five in terms of polling I'll ask to
02:03:54
see it just to come on we never get Biden because he'll fall asleep I don't think Biden can do 45 minutes without
02:03:59
him yeah that might show up let's see if we can get him I think he may you know he may get binded I don't know let's
02:04:06
let's not I can't ask yeah I can ask I mean let's try and get Biden I mean it would be great about half an hour with
02:04:12
him and he can have a real conversation with us I'd be thrilled be really interesting
02:04:19
it was an interview that was pretty much localized to talking about foreign policy in Ukraine he and he also did
02:04:26
that other woman on MSNBC they're all canned he gets the questions ahead of time yeah and then they edit it for him
02:04:32
so he gets post-production yeah which you know then you could shape the thing however you want and shame on the media
02:04:38
for doing that honestly to the left media you're not helping the Democracy here in the United States by you know
02:04:45
putting the fix in for Biden if he can't do the interview if he can't handle an hour at least then can he be the
02:04:51
president I mean let's be honest here well they'll get the ratings just in terms of debrief was there anything we
02:04:57
want to say about the the whole banking crisis I appreciate that he tried to find common ground with us
02:05:03
yeah I agree I nearly made a joke that you were now going to do a fundraiser for him after that
02:05:08
no I mean listen he said it himself I'm going to respond to everything one out of a hundred times I may change my
02:05:14
position based on new information which by the way we do here every week every week we all listen to each other we have
02:05:21
vibrant debate and sometimes we change our positions you know like I think that's what any reasonable person does
02:05:25
go ahead yeah I mean look I don't think we were that far apart from him on this whole banking crisis I mean I think we
02:05:31
all agree that there should be no bailout for the shareholders and the bondholders of these banks that are
02:05:37
poorly managed and go under and I think that Vivek did endorse a proposal which we I think Jason you and
02:05:46
I had both come up with which was to have a higher level of FDIC Insurance business banking I think it was like 10
02:05:54
million or something like that and you just include that in the cost of the insurance yeah exactly it's just paid by
02:06:00
the premiums of these banks for banking insurance and viveka at this point about
02:06:04
you know if Roku is stupid enough to keep 500 million in a checking account and the bank goes under maybe they
02:06:09
should lose it it's like okay my goal is not to save Roku if they're stupid enough to manage their money to save the
02:06:15
local school really the only difference is that and I think Friedberg you hit the nail on the head is when you have a
02:06:21
bank run underway you have to stop it before the Panic can spread contagion is real the contagion was absolutely real I
02:06:28
don't think people outside Silicon Valley could understand that because they weren't in those Friday morning
02:06:34
emergency phone calls and board meetings that were happening so we know it was it
02:06:40
had already moved so far beyond svb at that point we had Founders moving their money out of First Republic and all
02:06:46
these other Banks Thursday and Friday on Thursday and Friday and they wanted to go to the top four Banks and if it
02:06:51
wasn't a sip it wasn't good enough if it wasn't called Silicon Valley Bank this would have been a totally different
02:06:55
thing and if it hadn't been us raising the alarm let's be self-aware people hate Silicon Valley Tech there's this
02:07:01
contingent of people wait Silicon Valley Tech and rich people and they were just
02:07:05
gleeful you know there's 20 percent of the sort of far left communist socialists you know idiots who mids
02:07:12
Elizabeth Warren's whoever's who are just like oh great silicon Valley's getting kicked in the nuts they were
02:07:18
thrilled to see it right that was that was short and Freud all right we got a wrap hey uh pull up these pictures real
02:07:24
quick this is your five second science Corner look these are photos taken on Mars yesterday how cool is this that's
02:07:29
all I had to say yeah those that's exactly the chances of taking a photo on Mars are three billion 721 tours if you
02:07:36
can see this looks just like this those are from Uranus yeah those are from Mars
02:07:41
very similar to the photos I took of my ages last night I took my iPhone 14 and I squatted down and took pictures of
02:07:49
these tingle Bells into a mirror and I said look at what's going on down there huh these these Boulders are very
02:07:56
similar to the dingleberries if you look at those two both there's similar to my huge balls
02:08:06
you guys can't put this out I love you guys don't you think that's cool that there's these cameras on Mars
02:08:14
yes it's incredible and how cool are those photos I feel like we should have had two episodes this week since there
02:08:20
were so many good topics for us to talk about but let's talk about any of the the topics but yeah that was good uh
02:08:26
good meeting love you guys love you guys uh Hey if you guys are uh around you know anyone who wants to get some wine
02:08:33
and some pasta I've got some wine later maybe next week or something who knows maybe we'll all get together in person
02:08:38
have a glass of wine I see you soon I love you guys ciao for the architect himself the
02:08:47
dictator the Sultan of science obviously after today's performance I am still the
02:08:53
world's greatest moderator this has been another episode of the all-in podcasts were still together
02:09:00
the band is still together producing hot tracks we'll see you next week coming at
02:09:05
you two for Tuesday Tears for Fears Everybody Wants to Rule the World including Vivek next time Chris Christie
02:09:12
uh coming at you 100 Z morning Zoo we'll see you tomorrow [Music] besties [Music]
02:09:52
it's like this like sexual tension that we just need to release [Music] oh [Music]