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welcome to episode 124 of the all in podcast my understanding is there's going to be a
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bunch of global fan meetups for episode 125 if you go to Twitter and you search for
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all in fan meetups you might be able to find the link but just to be clear we're
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not they're not official all in this they're fans it's self-organized which is pretty mind-blowing but we can't
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vouch for any particular organization right nobody knows what's going to happen at these things you can get
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robbed it could be a setup I don't know but I retweeted it anyway because there are 31 cities where you lunatics are
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getting together to celebrate the world's number one business technology podcast it is pretty crazy you know what
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this reminds me of is in the early 90s when Rush Limbaugh became a phenomenon there used to be these things called
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Rush rooms where like restaurants and bars would literally broadcast rush over their speakers during I don't know like
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for the morning through lunch broadcast and people would go to these restrooms and listen together what was it like sex
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when you were about 16 17 years old at the time what was it like when you hosted this it was a phenomenon but I
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mean it's kind of crazy we've got like a phenomenon going here where people are I
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love it organizing you've said phenomenon three times instead of phenomenon he said it's phenomenon
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phenomenal why is Saxon a good moochima what's going on there's a specific secret toe tap that you do under the
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bathroom stalls when you go to a rushroom which we're already off the rails I think you're getting confused about a
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different event you went to [Music] let your Rain Man [Music] [Music] there's a lot of actual news in the
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world and generative AI is taking over the dialogue and it's moving at a pace that
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none of us have ever seen in the technology industry I think we'd all agree the number of companies releasing
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product and the compounding effect of this technology is phenomenal I think we would all agree
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a product came out this week called Auto GPT and people are losing their mind over it
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basically what this does is it lets different gpts talk to each other and so you can have
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agents working in the background and we've talked about this on previous podcasts but they could be talking to
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each other essentially and then completing tasks without much intervention so if let's say you had a
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sales team and you said to the sales team hey look for leads that have these characteristics for our sales software
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put them into our database find out if they're already in the database alert A salesperson to it compose a message
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based on that person's profile on LinkedIn or Twitter or wherever and then compose an email send it to them if they
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reply offer them to do a demo and then put that demo on the calendar of the salesperson thus eliminating a bunch of
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jobs and you could run these what would essentially be cron jobs in the background
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forever and they could interact with other llms in real time sex just gave but one example here but when you see
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this happening give us your perspective on what this Tipping Point means let me take a shot at explaining it in a
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slightly different way not that your explanation was wrong but I just think that maybe explain it in terms of
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something more tangible sure so I had a friend who's a developer has been playing with auto GPT by the way so you
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can see it's on GitHub it's kind of an open source project it was sort of a hobby project it looks like that
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somebody put up there it's been out for about two weeks it's already got 45 000 stars on GitHub which is a huge number
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explain what GitHub is for the audience is this a code repository and you can create you know repos of code for open
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source projects that's where all the developers check in their code so you know for open source projects like this
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anyone can go see it and play with it it's like PornHub but for developers it would be more like amateur or PornHub
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because you're contributing your scenes as it were your code yes but yes continue this thing has a ton of of
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stars and apparently just last night I got another 10 000 Stars overnight this thing is like exploding in terms of
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popularity but anyway what you do is you give it an assignment and what Auto GPT
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can do that's different is it can string together prompts so if you go to chat GPT you prompt it one at a time and what
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the human does is you get your answer and then you think of your next prompt and then you kind of go from there and
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you end up in a long conversation that gets you to where you want to go so the question is what if the AI could
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basically prompt itself then you've got the basis for autonomy and that's what this project is designed to do so what
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you'll do is what my friend did is he said okay you're an event planner Ai and what I would like you to do is
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plan a trip for me for a wine tasting in heelsburg this weekend and I want you to find like the
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best place I should go and it's got to be kid-friendly not everyone's going to drink we're gonna have kids there and
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I'd like to be able to have other people there and so I'd like you to plan this for me and so what Auto GPT did is it
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broke that down into a task list and every time I completed a task it would add a new task to the bottom of that
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list and so the output of this is that it searched a bunch of different wine tasting venues it found a venue that had
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a bocce ball lawn area for kids it came up with a schedule it created a budget it created a
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checklist for an event planner it did all these things my friend says he's actually in a book The Venue this
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weekend and use it so we're going beyond the ability just for a human to just prompt the AI we're now
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the AI can take on complicated tasks and again it can recursively update its task
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list based on what it learns from its own previous prompt so what you're seeing now is the basis for a personal
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digital assistant this is really where it's all headed is that you can just tell the AI to do something for you
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pretty complicated and it will be able to do it it will be able to create its own task list and get the job done
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in quite complicated jobs so that's why everyone's losing their [ __ ] over this
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freeberg your thoughts on automating these tasks and having them run and and add tasks to the list this does seem
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like a sort of seminal moment in time that this is actually working I think we've been seeing seminal
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moments over the last couple of weeks and months kind of continuously every time we chat
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about stuff or every day there's new releases that are Paradigm shifting and kind of reveal new applications and and
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perhaps Concepts structurally that we didn't really have a good grasp of before some
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demonstration came across chat GPT was kind of the seat of that and then all of this Evolution sense has really I think
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changed the landscape for really how we think about our interaction with digital
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world and where the digital world can go and how it can interact with the physical world it's it's just really
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profound one of the interesting aspects that I think I saw with some of the applications of Auto GPT were these
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almost like autonomous characters in in like a game simulation that could interact with each
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other or these autonomous characters that would speak back and forth to one another
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where each instance has its own kind of predefined role and then it explores some set of
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Discovery or application or prompt back and forth with the other agent and that the kind of recursive outcomes with this
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agent to agent interaction model and perhaps multi-agent interaction model again reveals an entirely new paradigm
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for you know how things can be done simulation wise you know Discovery wise engagement wise
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where One agent you know each agent can be a different character in a room and you can almost see how a team might
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resolve to create a new product collaboratively by telling each of those agents to have a different character
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background or different set of data or a different set of experiences or different set of personality traits and
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the evolution of those that multi-agent system outputs you know something that's
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very novel that perhaps any of the agents operating independently we're not able to kind of reveal themselves so
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again like another kind of dimension of interaction with these with these models and it
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again like every week it's a whole other layer to The Onion it's super exciting and compelling and
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the rate of change and the pace of kind of you know New Paths being being defined here really I think makes
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it difficult to catch up and particularly it highlights why it's going to be so difficult I think for
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Regulators to come in and try and set a set of standards and a set of rules at this stage because we don't even know
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what we have here yet and it's going to be very hard to kind of put the genie back in the Box yeah and you're also
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referring I think to the Stanford and Google paper that was published this week they did a research paper where
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they created essentially The Sims if you remember that video game put a bunch of
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and what you might consider NPCs non-playable characters you know the merchant or the whoever in a um in a
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video game and they said each of these agents should talk to each other put them in a simulation one of
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them decided to have a birthday party they decided to invite other people and then they have memories and so then over
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time they would generate responses like I can't go to your birthday party but happy birthday and then they would
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follow up with each player and seemingly emergent behaviors came out of this sort
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of simulation which of course now has everybody thinking well of course we as humans and this is simulation there are
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living in a simulation we've all just been put into this is what we're experiencing right now
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how impressive this technology is or is it oh wow human cognition maybe we thought
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was incredibly special but we can actually simulate a significant portion of what we do as humans so we're kind of
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taking the Shine off of Consciousness I'm not sure it's that but I would make two comments I think this
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is a really important week because it starts to show how fast the recursion is with AI so in other Technologies and in
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other breakthroughs the recursive iterations took years right if you think about how long did we
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wait for from iPhone 1 to iPhone 2 it was a year right we waited two years for the App
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Store everything was measured in years maybe things when they were really really
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aggressive and really disruptive were measured in months except now these incredibly Innovative
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breakthroughs are being measured in days and weeks that's incredibly profound and I think it has some really important
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implications to like the three big actors in this play right so it has I think huge implications to these
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companies it's not clear to me how you start a company anymore I don't understand why
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you would have a 40 or 50 person company to try to get to an MVP I think you can
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do that with three or four people and that has huge implications then to the second actor in this play which are
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the investors in Venture capitalists that typically fund this stuff because all of our Capital allocation models
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were always around writing 10 and 15 and 20 million dollar checks and 100 million
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dollar checks then 500 million dollar checks into these businesses that absorbs tons of money
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but the reality is like you know you're looking at things like mid-journey and others that can
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scale to enormous size with very little Capital many of which can now be bootstrapped
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so it takes really really small amounts of money and so I think that's a huge implication
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so for me personally I am looking at company formation being done in a totally different way
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and our Capital allocation model is totally wrong size look fund four for me was one billion dollars does that make
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sense nope for the next three or four years no the right number may actually be 50
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million dollars invested over the next four years I think the VC job is changing I think company startups are
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changing I want to remind you guys of one quick thing as a tangent I had this meeting with Andre carpathy I
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talked about this on the Pod where I said I challenged him I said listen the real goal should be to go and disrupt
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existing businesses using these tools cutting out all the sales and marketing right and just delivering something and
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I use the example of stripe disrupting stripe by going to Market with an equivalent product with
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one-tenth the number of employees at one tenth the cost what's incredible is that this Auto GPT
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is the answer to that exact problem why because now if you are a young industrious entrepreneur
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if you look at any bloated organization that's building Enterprise class software
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you can string together a bunch of agents that will Auto construct everything you need
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to build a much much cheaper product that then you can deploy for other agents to consume so you don't even need
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a sales team anymore this is what I mean by this crazy recursion that's possible
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yeah so I'm really curious to see how this actually affects like all of this all of these you know continuation
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companies I mean it's a continuation of and then the last thing I just want to say is related to my tweet I think this
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is exactly the moment where we now have to have a real conversation about regulation and I think it has to happen
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otherwise it's going to be a [ __ ] show let's put a pin in that for a second but
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I want to get Sax's response to some of this so sax we saw this before it used to take two or three million dollars to
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commercialize a web-based software product app then it went down to 500k then 250. I don't know if you saw this
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story but if you remember the hit game on your iPhone Flappy Birds Flappy Birds uh you know was a phenomenon at you know
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hundreds of millions of people played this game over some period of time somebody made it by talking to chat gpt4
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in mid-journey in an hour so the perfect example and listen it's a game so it's something silly but I was
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talking to two developers this weekend and one of them was an okay developer and the other one was an actual 10x
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developer who's built you know very significant companies and they were coding together last week and because of
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how fast chat GPT and other services were writing code for them he looked over at her and said you know
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you're basically a 10x developer now my superpower is gone so where does this lead you to believe company formation is
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going to go is this going to be you know massively deflationary companies like stripe are going to have
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a hundred competitors in a very short period of time or are we just going to go down the long tail of ideas and solve
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everything with software how is this going to play out in the in the startup space David sacks
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well I think it's true that developers and especially Junior developers get a lot more leverage on
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their time and so it is going to be easier for small teams to get to an MVP which is something they always should
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have done anyway with their seed round you shouldn't have needed you know 50 developers to build your V1 it should be
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you know that's the founders really so that that I think is already happening and that Trend will continue I
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think we're still a ways away from stores being able to replace entire teams of people I just you know I think
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right now to find a ways months years decade well it's in the years I think for sure we
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don't know how many years and the reason I say that is it's just very hard to replace
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you know 100 of what any of these particular job functions do 100 of what a sales rep does 100 of what a marketing
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rep does or even what a coder does so right now I think we're still at the phase of this where it's a tool that
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gives a human leverage and I think we're still a ways away from the you know human being completely out of the loop I
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think right now I see it mostly as a Force for good as opposed to something that's creating
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okay a ton of dislocation Friedberg your thoughts if we follow the trend line you
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know to make that video game that you shared took probably a few hundred human years then a few dozen human years then
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you know with other tool kits coming out maybe a few human months and now this person did it in one human day using
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this tooling so if you think about the implication for that I mentioned this probably last year I really do believe
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that at some point the whole concept of Publishers and Publishing maybe goes away where you know much like we saw so
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much of the content on the internet today being user generated you know most of the content is made by individuals
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posted on YouTube or Twitter that's most of what we consume nowadays or Instagram
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or Tick Tock in terms of video content we could see the same in terms of software itself where you no
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longer need a software startup or a software company to render or generate a set of tools for a particular user but
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that the user may be able to Define to their agent their AI agent the set of tools that they would individually like
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to use or to create for them to do something interesting and so the idea of buying or subscribing to software or
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even buying or subscribing to a video game or to a movie or to some other form of content
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starts to diminish as The Leverage goes up with these tools the accessibility goes up you no longer need a computer
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engineering degree or computer science degree to be able to harness them or use them and individuals may be able to
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speak in simple and plain English that they would like a book or a movie that does that looks and feels like the
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following or a video game that feels like the following and so when I open up my iPhone maybe it's not a screen with
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dozens of video games but it's one interface and the interface says what do you feel like playing today and then I
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can very clearly and succinctly State what I feel like playing and it can render that game and render the code
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render the engine render the graphics and everything on the Fly for me and I can use that and so you know I kind of
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think about this as being a bit of a leveling up that the idea that all technology again starts Central and
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moves to kind of the edge of the network over time that may be what's going on with computer programming itself now
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where the toolkit to actually use computers to generate stuff for us is no longer a toolkit that's harnessed and
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controlled and utilized by a set of centralized Publishers but it becomes distributed and used at the edge of the
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network by users like anyone and then the edge of the Network Technology can render the software for you and it
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really creates a profound change in the entire business landscape of software and the internet
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and I think it's uh you know it's it's really like we're just starting to kind of see have our heads unravel around
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this notion and we're sort of trying to link it to the old Paradigm which is all
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startups are going to get cheaper smaller teams but it may be that you don't even need startups for a lot of
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stuff anymore you don't even need teams and you don't even need companies to generate and render software to do stuff
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for you anymore when we look at this it it's kind of a pattern of augmentation as we've been talking about
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here we're augmenting human intelligence then replacing this replication or this
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automation I guess might be a nice way to say it so it's augmentation then automation
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and then perhaps deprecation where do you sit on this it seems like sax feels it's going to take years
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and Freeburg thinks hey maybe startups and content are over where do you sit on this augmentation automation deprecation
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Journey we're on I think that humans have judgment and I think it's going to take decades for agents to replace good
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judgment I think that's where we have some defensible ground and I'm going to say
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something controversial I don't think developers anymore have good judgment developers get to the answer or they
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don't get to the answer and that's what agents have done because the the 10x engineer had better judgment than the 1X
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engineer but by making everybody a 10x engineer you're taking judgment away you're taking code paths that are now
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obvious and making it available to everybody it's effectively like what you did in chess an AI created a solver so
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everybody understood the most efficient path in every single spot to do the eat most EV positive thing the most expected
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value positive thing coding is very similar that way you can reduce it and view it very very reductively so there
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is no differentiation in code and so I think Freeburg is right so for example let's say you're going to start a
00:21:11
company today why do you even care what database you use why do you even care which Cloud you're built on to free
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Brook's Point why do any of these things matter they don't matter they were decisions that used to matter when
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people had a job to do and you paid them for their judgment oh well we think gcp
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is better for this specific workload and we think that this database architecture
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is better for that specific workload and we're going to run this on AWS but that
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on azure and do you think an agent cares if you tell an agent find me the cheapest way
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to execute this thing and if it ever gets not you know cheaper to go someplace else do that for me as
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well and you know ETL all the data and put it in the other thing and I don't really care so you're saying it will it
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will swap out stripe for add Yen or it doesn't for Amazon web services it's going to be ruthless it's going to be
00:22:05
ruthless and I think that the point of that that and that's the exact perfect word Jason AI is ruthless because it's
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emotionless it was not taken to a steak dinner it was not brought to a basketball game
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it was not sold into a CEO it's an agent that looked at a bunch of API endpoints
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figured out how to write code to it to get done the job at hand that was tasked to it within a budget right the other
00:22:31
thing that's important is these agents execute within budgets so another good example was and this is a much simpler
00:22:38
one but a guy said I would like seven days worth of meals here are my constraints from a dietary perspective
00:22:48
here are also my budgetary constraints and then what this agent did was figured out how to go and use the instacart
00:22:55
plug-in at the time and then these other things and execute within the budget how is that different when you're a
00:23:01
person that raises five hundred thousand dollars and says I need a full stack solution that does X Y and Z for two
00:23:07
hundred thousand dollars it's the exact same problem so I think it's just a matter of time
00:23:13
until we start to cannibalize these extremely expensive fossified large organizations that have relied on a very
00:23:20
complicated go to market in sales and marketing motion I don't think you need it anymore in a world of of agents and
00:23:25
auto gpts and I think that to me is quite interesting because a it creates an obvious set of public
00:23:33
company shorts and then B you actually want to arm the rebels and arming the rebels to use the Tobi
00:23:40
lootkey analogy here would mean to seed hundreds of one-person teams hundreds and just say go and build this entire
00:23:49
stack all over again using a bunch of Agents yeah and I think recursively you'll get
00:23:54
to that answer in in less than a year interestingly when you talk about the emotion of
00:24:00
making these decisions if you look at Hollywood I just interviewed on my other podcast the founder of you have another
00:24:07
podcast I do it's called startups thank you episode you've been on her four times
00:24:13
don't give them an excuse to plug it listen I'm not going to this week in startups available on Spotify and iTunes
00:24:19
and youtube.com this weekend Runway is the name of this company I interviewed and what's fascinating about this is he
00:24:26
told me on everything everywhere all at once the award-winning film they had seven visual effects people on
00:24:33
it and they were using his software the late night shows like Colbert and stuff like that are using it they are
00:24:39
ruthless in terms of creating crazy visual effects now without and you can do text prompt to get video output and
00:24:48
it is quite reasonable what's coming out of it but you can also train it on existing data sets so they're going to
00:24:54
be able to take something sax like The Simpsons or South Park or Star Wars or Marvel
00:25:00
take the entire Corpus of the comic books and the movies and the TV shows and then have people type in have Iron
00:25:07
Man do this have Luke Skywalker do that and it's going to Output stuff and I said hey when would this reach
00:25:15
the the level that the Mandalorian TV show is and he said within two years now he's talking his own book but it's quite
00:25:21
possible about that all these visual effects people from industrial Light Magic on down
00:25:27
are going to be replaced with director sacks who are currently using this technology to do
00:25:33
what do they call the images like that go with the script storyboards storyboards thank you they're doing
00:25:38
storyboards in this right now right the difference between the storyboards acts and the output is closing in the next 30
00:25:45
months I would say right I mean maybe you could speak to a little bit about the pace here because that is the
00:25:51
perfect ruthless example of Ruthless AI I mean you could have the entire team at
00:25:55
industrial Light Magics or Pixar be unnecessary this decade well I mean you see a bunch of the pieces already there
00:26:02
so you have stable diffusion you have the ability to type in the image that you want and it spits out you know a
00:26:08
version of it or 10 different versions of it and you can pick which one you want to go with you have the ability to
00:26:13
create characters you have the ability to create voices you have the ability to replicate a celebrity voice the only
00:26:20
thing that's not there yet as far as I know is the ability to take static images and stream them together into a
00:26:26
motion picture but that seems like it's coming really soon so yeah in theory you
00:26:31
should be able to train the model where you just give it screenplay and it outputs essentially an animated movie
00:26:37
and then you should be able to fine tune it by choosing the voices that you want
00:26:41
and the characters that you want and you know and that kind of stuff so yeah I think we're close to it now I think that
00:26:48
the question though is you know every nine let's call it of reliability is a big advancement so yeah it might be easy
00:26:56
to get to 90 percent within two years but it might take another two years to go from 90 to 99 and then it might take
00:27:03
another two years to get to 99.9 and so on and so to actually get to the point where you're at this stage where you can
00:27:10
release a theatrical quality movie I'm sure it will take a lot longer than two years well but look at this sex I'm just
00:27:15
going to show you one image this is the input was aerial Drone footage of a mountain range and this is what it came
00:27:21
up with now if you were watching TV in the 80s or 90s on a non-hd TV this would look indistinguishable from anything
00:27:28
you've seen and so this is at a pace that's kind of crazy there's also opportunity here right Friedberg I mean
00:27:35
if we were to look at something like The Simpsons which has gone on for 30 years
00:27:39
if young people watching The Simpsons could create their own scenarios or with auto GPT imagine you told The Simpsons
00:27:50
stable diffusion instance read what's happening in the news have Bart Simpson respond to it have the South Park
00:27:57
characters parody whatever happened in the news today you could have automated real-time episodes of South Park just
00:28:04
being published onto some website before you move on did you see the the Wonder Studio demo we can pull this one up it's
00:28:12
really cool yeah please this is a startup that's using this type of technology and the way it works is
00:28:19
new film a live action scene with a regular actor but then you can just drag and drop and animate a character onto it
00:28:27
and it then converts that scene into a movie with that character like Planet of the Apes or Lord of the Rings right yeah
00:28:36
exactly you see the person who kept winning all the Oscars so there it goes after the robot has replaced the human
00:28:42
wow you can imagine like every piece of this just eventually gets swapped out with AI right like you should be able to
00:28:48
tell the AI give me a picture of a human leaving a building like a Victorian era building in New
00:29:00
York and certainly can give you a static image of that so it's not that far to then give you a video of that right
00:29:07
and so yeah I think we're we're pretty close for let's call it hobbyists or amateurs to be able to create pretty
00:29:13
nice looking movies using these types of tools but again I think there's a jump to get to the point where you're just
00:29:20
all together replacing one of the things I'll say on this is we still keep trying
00:29:25
to relate it back to the way media narrative has been explored and written by humans in the past very kind of
00:29:34
linear storytelling you know it's a two-hour movie 30 minute TV segment eight minute YouTube clip 30 second
00:29:41
Instagram clip whatever but one of the enabling capabilities with this set of tools is that these stories
00:29:51
the way that they're rendered and the way that they're explored by individuals can be fairly dynamic
00:29:58
you could watch a movie with the same story all four of us could watch a movie with the same story but from totally
00:30:05
different Vantage points and some of us could watch it in an 18 minute version or a two-hour version or a you know
00:30:10
three season episode episodic version where the the way that this opens up the potential for creators and all so so now
00:30:18
I'm kind of saying before I was saying hey individuals can make their own movies and videos that's going to be
00:30:23
incredible there's a separate I think creative output here which is the leveling up that happens
00:30:30
with creators that maybe wasn't possible to them before so perhaps a Creator writes a short book a short story and
00:30:38
then that short story gets rendered into a system that can allow each one of us to explore it and enjoy it in different
00:30:43
ways and I as the Creator can define those different Vantage points I as the Creator can say here's a little bit of
00:30:50
this personality this character trait and so what I can now do as a Creator is stuff that I never imagined I could do
00:30:57
before think about old school photographers doing black and white photography with pinhole cameras and
00:31:02
then they come across Adobe Photoshop what they can do with Adobe Photoshop was stuff that they could never
00:31:06
conceptualize of in those old days I think what's going to happen for creators going forward and this is going
00:31:12
back to that point that we had last week or two weeks ago about the guy that was
00:31:15
like hey I'm out of a job I actually think that the opportunity for creating new stuff in new ways is so profoundly
00:31:22
expanding that individuals can now write entire universes that can then be enjoyed by millions of people from
00:31:29
completely different lengths and viewpoints and and models that can be interactive they can be static they can
00:31:35
be dynamic and that the person personalized but the tooling that you as a Creator now has you could choose which
00:31:42
characters you wanted to find you could choose which content you want to write you could choose which content you want
00:31:48
the AI to fill in for you and say hey create 50 other characters in the village and then when the viewer reads
00:31:54
the book or watches the movie Let Them explore or have a different interaction with a set of of those villagers uh in
00:32:00
that Village or you could say hey here's the one character everyone has to meet here's what I want them to say and you
00:32:05
can Define the dialogue and so the way the creators can start to kind of harness their creative chops and create
00:32:10
new kinds of modalities for content and for exploration I think is going to be so
00:32:16
beautiful and incredible I mean Freeburg yeah you can choose the limits of how much you want the individual to
00:32:23
enjoy from your content versus how narrowly you want to Define it and my guess is that the creators that are
00:32:28
going to win are going to be the ones that are going to create more dynamic range in the creative output and then
00:32:34
individuals are going to kind of be stuck they're gonna be more into that than they will with the static everyone
00:32:39
watches the same thing over and over so there will be a whole new world of creators that you know maybe have a
00:32:43
different set of tools that then just just realizing a lot better to build on what you're saying for a burmes I think
00:32:49
it's incredibly insightful just think about the controversy around two aspects of a franchise like James Bond number
00:32:55
one who's your favorite Bond we grew up with Roger Moore We lean towards that then we discover Sean Connery and then
00:33:00
all of a sudden you see you know the latest one he's just extraordinary and and Daniel Craig you're like you
00:33:06
know what that's the one that I love most but what if you could take any of the films you could say let me get you
00:33:10
know give me the spy who loved me but put Daniel Craig in it Etc and that would be available to you and then think
00:33:15
about the next controversy which is oh my God does Daniel does James Bond need to be a white guy from the UK of course
00:33:20
not you can you place it around the world and each region could get their own celebrity their number one celebrity
00:33:26
to play the lead and controversy over you know the old story The Epic of Gilgamesh right so like that story was
00:33:33
retold in dozens of different languages and it was told through the oral tradition it was like You Know spoken by
00:33:38
bards around a fire pit and whatnot and all of those stories were told with different characters and different names
00:33:44
and different experiences some of them were 10 minutes long some of them were multi-hour sagas explained through the
00:33:50
story but ultimately the morality of the story the storyline the intentionality of the original creator of that story
00:33:57
yes came through the the Bible is another good example of this where much of the underlying morality and ethics in
00:34:02
the Bible comes through in different stories read by different people in different languages everything that that
00:34:06
may be where we go like my kids want to have a 10 minute bedtime story well let me give them Peter Pan at 10 minutes I
00:34:12
want to do you know a chapter or a night for my older daughter for a week long of
00:34:16
Peter Pan now I can do that and so the way that I can kind of consume content becomes different so I guess what I'm
00:34:23
saying is there's two aspects to the way that I think the entire content the the
00:34:27
realm of content can be Rewritten through AI the first is like individual personalized creation of content where I
00:34:33
as a user can render content that of my liking and my interest the second is that I can engage with content that is
00:34:40
being created that is so much more multi-dimensional than anything we conceive of today we're current
00:34:45
centralized content creators now have a whole set of tools now from a business model perspective I don't think that
00:34:50
Publishers are really the play anymore but I do think the platforms are going to be the play and the platform tooling
00:34:55
that enables the individuals to do this stuff and the platform tooling that enables the content creators to do this
00:35:00
stuff are definitely entirely new Industries and models that can create multi-hundred billion dollar outcomes
00:35:06
let me hand this off to sax because there has been the dream for everybody especially in the Bay area of a hero
00:35:13
coming and saving Gotham City and this has finally been realized David sacks I did my own little Twitter AI
00:35:24
hashtag and I said to Twitter AI if only please generate a picture of David Sax's
00:35:30
Batman crouched down on the bridge the amount of creativity sacks that came from this and this is
00:35:38
something that you know if we were talking about just five years ago this would be like a ten thousand dollar
00:35:43
image you could create a birthday these were not professional quote unquote artists these were individuals
00:35:49
individuals that were able to harness a set of platform tools to generate this incredible new content and I think it
00:35:55
speaks to the opportunity ahead and by the way we're in inning one right so you see yourself as Batman do you ever
00:36:01
think you should take your enormous wealth and resources and put it towards building a cave under your mansion that
00:36:08
lets you out underneath the Golden Gate Bridge and you could go fight crime so good do you want to go fight this crime
00:36:14
in Gotham and I think San Francisco has a lot of gotham-like qualities I think the
00:36:19
villains are more real than the heroes unfortunately we don't have a lot of Heroes but yeah we got a lot of jokers
00:36:25
Jokers yeah that's a whole separate topic I'm sure a whole separate topic we'll get to it at some point today you
00:36:31
guys are talking about all this stupid [ __ ] like there are trillions of dollars of software companies that could
00:36:36
get disrupted and you're talking about making [ __ ] children's books and fat pictures of socks it's so dumb no
00:36:41
special conversations great job cares about entertainment anymore because it's totally obvious okay so one
00:36:49
of the biggest industries where the money is why don't you teach people where there's going to be actual
00:36:54
economic destruction amazing economic destruction and opportunity you spend all this time on
00:36:59
the most stupidest [ __ ] topics listen it's an illustrative example no it's an elitist example that you know it's
00:37:06
[ __ ] circle jerk yourself Batman's not nobody nobody cares about movies well let's bring nobody
00:37:12
tweet over everybody I mean I think I think U.S box office is something like 20 billion a year I remember when like
00:37:18
they now got to like 100 billion a year payment volume and now it's like hundreds of billions so yeah and stripe
00:37:23
are going to process two trillion dollars almost why don't you talk about that disruption you ninny Market size of
00:37:28
U.S media and entertainment industry 717 billion okay it's not insignificant video games are nearly half a trillion a
00:37:35
year yeah I mean this is the number insignificant but let's pull up chamat's tweet of course the dictator wants to
00:37:41
dictate here all this incredible Innovation is being made and a new Hero has been born chamath
00:37:48
polyhapatia a tweet that went viral over 1.2 million views already I'll read your Tweet for the audience if
00:37:55
you invent a novel drug you need the government to vet and approve it FDA before you can commercialize it if you
00:38:00
invent a new mode of air travel you need the government to vet and improve it FAA
00:38:04
I'm just going to edit this down a little bit if you create new security you need the government to vet it and
00:38:09
approve at SEC more generally when you create things with broad societal impact positive and negative the government
00:38:14
creates a layer to review and approve it AI will need such an oversight body the
00:38:19
FDA approval process seems the most credible and adaptable into a framework to understand how
00:38:25
a model behaves and its counter factual our political leaders need to get in front of this sooner rather than later
00:38:32
and create some oversight before the eventual big avoidable mistakes happen and Genies are let out of the bottle
00:38:38
Tremont you really want the government to come in and then when people build these tools they have to submit them to
00:38:45
the government to approve them that's what you're saying here and you want that to start now
00:38:49
here's the alternative the alternative is going to be the debacle that we know as section 230. so if you try to write a
00:38:57
brittle piece of legislation or try to use old legislation to deal with something
00:39:04
new it's not going to do a good job because technology advances way too quickly and so if you look at the section 230
00:39:12
example where have we left ourselves the politicians have a complete inability to
00:39:17
pass a new framework to deal with social media to deal with misinformation and so
00:39:21
now we're all kind of guessing what a bunch of age 70 and 80 year old Supreme Court Justices will do in trying
00:39:30
to rewrite technology law when they have to apply on Section 230. so the point of
00:39:35
that tweet was to lay the Alternatives there is no world in which this will be unregulated
00:39:43
and so I think the question to ask ourselves is do we want a chance for a new body
00:39:49
so the FDA is a perfect example why even though the FDA commissioner is appointed
00:39:54
by the president this is a quasi organization it still arms length away it has subject matter experts that they
00:40:02
hire and they have many Pathways to approval some Pathways take days some pathways are months and years some
00:40:11
pathways are for breakthrough Innovation some pathways are for devices so they have a broad spectrum of ways of of
00:40:18
arbitrating what can be commercialized and what cannot otherwise my prediction is we
00:40:24
will have a very brittle law that will not work it'll be like the Commerce department and the FTC
00:40:31
trying to gerrymander some old piece of legislation and then what will happen is
00:40:36
it'll get escalated to the Supreme Court and I think they are the last group of people
00:40:41
who should be deciding on this incredibly important topic for society so what I have been advocating our leaders
00:40:50
and I will continue to do so is don't try to Ram this into an existing body it is so important it is worth
00:40:57
creating a new organization like the FDA and having a framework that allows you to look at a model
00:41:04
and look at the counter factual judge how good how important how disruptive it is
00:41:11
and then release it in the wild appropriately otherwise I think you'll have these chaos GPT things
00:41:17
scale infinitely because again as Friedberg said in Sac said you're talking about one person that can create
00:41:22
this chaos multiply that by every person that is an anarchist or every person that just wants to sow seeds of chaos
00:41:30
and I think it's going to be all avoidable I think regulating what software people can write is a near
00:41:35
impossible task number one I think you can probably put rules and restrictions around Commerce right that's certainly
00:41:41
feasible uh in terms of how people can monetize but in terms of writing and utilizing software it's going to be as
00:41:49
challenged as trying to monitor and demand oversight and regulation around how people write and use
00:41:57
tools for uh for genome and biology exploration certainly if you want to take a product to Market and sell a drug
00:42:04
to people that can influence their body you have to go get that approved but in terms of you know doing your work in a
00:42:10
lab it's very difficult I think the other challenge here is software can be written anywhere
00:42:17
it can be executed anywhere and so if the US does try to regulate or does try to put the brakes on the development of
00:42:27
tools where the U.S can have kind of a great economic benefit and a great economic interest
00:42:32
there will be advances made elsewhere without a doubt and those markets and those
00:42:39
those places will benefit in an extraordinarily out outpaced way as we just mentioned there's such
00:42:46
extraordinary kind of economic gain to be realized here that if we're not if the United States is not leading the
00:42:54
world we are going to be following we are going to get disrupted we are going to lose an incredible amount of value
00:42:58
and talent and so any attempt at regulation or slowing down or telling people that they cannot do things when
00:43:06
they can easily hop on a plane and go do it elsewhere I think is is fraught with
00:43:10
Peril so you don't agree with regulation sax are you on board with the chamoth plan or you're on board with the Free
00:43:15
Bird well I'll say I think I think just like with computer hacking it's illegal to break into someone else's computer it
00:43:20
is illegal to steal someone's personal information there are laws that are absolutely simple and obvious and
00:43:28
you know no-nonsense laws those a lot of legal to get rid of a hundred thousand jobs by making a piece of software
00:43:34
though that's right and so I think trying to intentionalize how we do things versus intentionalizing
00:43:41
um the things that we want to prohibit happening as an outcome we can certainly try and prohibit the things that we want
00:43:46
to happen as an outcome and pass laws and Institute governing bodies with authority to oversee those laws
00:43:53
with respect to things like stealing data but you can jump on a plane and go do it in Mexico Canada or whatever
00:43:59
region you get to Saks where do you stand on this debate yeah I'm saying like there are ways to protect people
00:44:03
there's ways to protect Society about passing laws that that make it illegal to do things as the output is the
00:44:08
outcome what law do you pass on chaos GPT explain chaos GPT Give an example please yeah do you want to talk about it
00:44:14
real quick it's a recursive agent that basically is trying to destroy itself try to destroy Humanity yeah but I guess
00:44:22
by first becoming all-powerful and destroying humanity and then destroying itself yeah it's a tongue-in-cheek Auto
00:44:28
GPT it's not a tongue-in-cheek auto GPT the guy that created it you know put it out
00:44:34
there and said like he's trying to show everyone to your point what intentionality could arise here which is
00:44:39
negative intentionality I think it's very naive for anybody to think that this is not equivalent to
00:44:47
something that could cause harm to you so for example if the prompt is hey here is a security leak that we figured out
00:44:54
in Windows and so why don't you exploit it so look a hacker now has to be very technical
00:45:00
today with with these Auto gpts a hacker does not need to be technical at all exploit the zero day
00:45:07
exploit in Windows hack into this plane and bring it down oh okay the GPT will do it so who's going to tell you that
00:45:14
those things are not allowed who's going to actually vet that that wasn't allowed
00:45:18
to be released in the wild so for example if you worked with Amazon and Google and Microsoft and said you're
00:45:23
going to have to run these things in a sandbox and we're going to have to observe the output before we allow it to
00:45:29
run on actual bare metal in the wild again that seems like a reasonable thing and it's super naive for people to think
00:45:36
it's a free market so we should just be able to do what we want this will end badly quickly and when the first plane
00:45:43
goes down and when the first [ __ ] thing gets blown up all of you guys will be like oh sorry Saks a pretty
00:45:48
compelling example here by chamoth somebody puts out into the wild chaos GPT you can go do a Google search for it
00:45:53
and says hey what are the vulnerabilities to the electrical grid compile those and automate a series of
00:46:01
attacks and write some code to probe those until we and success in this Mission you get a hundred points and
00:46:08
stars every time you Jason do this such a it's such a beautiful example but it's
00:46:12
even more nefarious it is hey this is an enemy that's trying to hack our system so you need to hack
00:46:19
theirs and bring it down you know like you can easily trick these gpts right yes they have no judgment they have no
00:46:25
judgment and as you said they're ruthless in in getting to the outcome right so why why do we think all of a sudden
00:46:33
this is not going to happen I mean it's literally the science fiction example you say Hey listen make sure no humans
00:46:38
get cancer and like okay well The Logical way to make sure no humans get cancer is to kill all the humans can you
00:46:43
just address the point so what do you think you're regulating are you regulating the code here's what I'm
00:46:47
saying to write if you look at the FDA no you're allowed to make any chemical drug you want but if you want to
00:46:52
commercialize it you need to run a series of trials with highly qualified measurable data and you submit it to
00:47:00
like-minded experts that are trained as you are to evaluate the viability of that and but hold on there are Pathways
00:47:08
that allow you to get that done in days under emergency use and then there are Pathways that can take years depending
00:47:14
on how gargantuan the task is at hand and all I'm suggesting is having some amount of oversight
00:47:21
is not bad in this specific example I get what you're saying but I'm asking tactically how what are you overseeing
00:47:28
you're overseeing cat GPT you're overseas the the model you're doing exactly chips okay look I used to run
00:47:35
the Facebook platform we used to create sandboxes if you submit code to us you would we would run it as a Sandbox
00:47:42
we would observe it we would figure out what it was trying to do and we would tell you this is allowed to run in the
00:47:46
wild there's a version of that that Apple does when you submit an app for review and approval Google does it as
00:47:53
well in this case all the bare metal providers all the people that provide gpus will be forced by the government in
00:48:00
my opinion to implement something and all I'm suggesting is that it should be a new kind of body
00:48:07
that essentially observes that has phds that has people who are trained in this stuff to develop the kind of testing and
00:48:15
the output that you need to figure out whether it should even be allowed to run in the Wild on bare metal
00:48:20
sorry but you're saying that the mod the model sorry I'm just trying to understand Shaman's points you're saying
00:48:24
that the models need to be reviewed by this body and those models if they're run on a third-party set of servers
00:48:36
you cannot run an app on your computer you know that right it needs to be connected to the internet right like if
00:48:41
you wanted to run an auto GPT it actually crawls the internet it actually touches other apis it tries to then
00:48:47
basically send a push request sees what it gets back parses the Json figures out
00:48:52
what it needs to do all of that is allowed because it's hosted by somebody right that code is running not locally
00:49:00
so the host becomes sure if you want to run it locally you can do whatever you want to do but evil agents are going to
00:49:06
do that right so if I'm an evil agent I'm not going to go use AWS to run my evil agent I'm going to set up a bunch
00:49:12
of servers and connect it to the internet how I could use vpns the internet is open
00:49:17
there's openings I think that what you're going to see is that if you for example try to VPN and
00:49:25
run it out of like Tajikistan back to the United States it's not going to take years for us to
00:49:31
figure out that we need to IP block Rando [ __ ] coming in push and pull requests from all kinds of ips that we
00:49:36
don't trust anymore because we don't now trust the regulatory oversight that they
00:49:40
have for code that's running from those IPS that are not us domestications let me steal man tremont's position for a
00:49:46
second Jason hold on I I think the ultimate if what chamoth is saying is the point of view of Congress and if
00:49:52
tomoth has this point of view then there will certainly be people in Congress that will adopt this point of view the
00:49:58
only way to ultimately do that degree of Regulation and restriction is going to be to restrict the open internet it is
00:50:04
going to be to have monitoring and firewalls and safety protocols across the open internet because you can have a
00:50:09
set of models running on any set of servers sitting in any physical location and as long as they can move data
00:50:14
packets around they're going to be able to get up to their nefarious activities let me still man that for you Freeburg I
00:50:21
think yes you're correct the internet has existed in a very open way but there are organizations and there are places
00:50:27
like the national highway traffic safety administration if I were to steal Management's position if you want to
00:50:33
manufacture a car and you want to make one in your backyard and put it on your track in on your land up in Napa
00:50:40
somewhere and you don't want to have brakes on the car and you don't want to have you know a speed limiter or airbags
00:50:46
or seat belts and you want to drive on the hood of the car you can do that but once you want it to go on the open road
00:50:50
the open internet you need to get you need to submit it for some safety standards like nht sa like Tesla has to
00:50:58
or Ford has to so sax where do you sit on this or is let's assume that people are going to do very bad things with
00:51:06
very powerful models that are becoming available Amazon today said there'll be Switzerland they're going to put a bunch
00:51:11
of llms and other models available on AWS Bloomberg's llm Facebooks Google bard and of course at gbt open Ai and
00:51:20
Bing all this stuff's available to have access to that do you need to have some regulation of who has access to those at
00:51:26
scale powerful tools should there be some FDA or nhtsa I don't think we know how to regulate it yet I think that's
00:51:34
too early and I think the harms that we're speculating about we're making the AI more powerful than it is and I
00:51:40
believe it will be that powerful but I think that it's premature to be talking about regulating something that doesn't
00:51:45
really exist yet take the chaos GPT scenario the way that would play out would be
00:51:51
you've got some future incarnation of Auto GPT and somebody says okay Auto GPT I want
00:51:57
you to be you know wmdai and figure out how to cause like a mass destruction event you know and then it creates like
00:52:05
a planning checklist and that kind of stuff so that's basically the the type of scenario we're we're talking about we're
00:52:12
not anywhere close to that yet I mean the chaos GPT is kind of a joke it doesn't produce it doesn't produce a
00:52:20
checklist I can give an example that would actually be completely plausible one of the first
00:52:25
things on the chaos gpt's checklist was to stay within the boundaries of the law
00:52:29
because it didn't want to get prosecuted got it so the person who did that had some sort of good intent but I can give
00:52:34
you an example right now that could be done by chat GPT and auto GPT that could take down large swaths of
00:52:40
society and cause massive destruction I'm almost reticent to say it here say it uh well I'll say it and then maybe
00:52:45
we'll have to delete this but if somebody created this and they said uh figure out a way to compromise as many
00:52:52
powerful peoples and as many systems passwords then go in there and delete all their files and turn off as many
00:52:58
systems as you can Chachi PT and auto GPT could very easily create phishing accounts create billions
00:53:05
of websites to create billions of logins have people log into them get their passwords log into whatever they do and
00:53:11
then delete everything in their account which would cause chaos and it could be done today I don't think we've done
00:53:17
today simpler than this how about how about you fishing website yeah pieces of it can be created today but you're
00:53:22
you're accelerating the progress yeah but you can automate 30 days yeah exactly and but I think I'm accelerating
00:53:30
it in weeks why don't you just spoof the bank accounts and just steal the money like that's even simpler like people
00:53:36
will do the stuff because they're trying to do it today holy cow now they just have a more efficient way to solve
00:53:41
somebody think about bank accounts geez so number one this is a tool and if people use a tool in nefarious ways you
00:53:46
prosecute them number two the platforms that are commercializing these tools do have trust and safety teams now in the
00:53:54
past trust and safety has been a euphemism for censorship which it shouldn't be but you know open AI has a
00:54:01
safety team and they try to detect when people are using their Tech in a nefarious way and they try to prevent it
00:54:08
well no not on censorship but I think that they're probably a million people are using chapters I think they're
00:54:15
policing it are you willing to abdicate your or societal responsibility to to open AI to do the trust sensation what
00:54:22
I'm what I'm saying is I'd like to see how far we get in terms of the system yes you're saying you want to see the
00:54:29
mistakes you want to see where the mistakes are and how bad had the mistakes are I'm saying it's still very
00:54:33
early to be imposing regulation we don't even know what to regulate so I think we
00:54:37
have to keep tracking this to develop some understanding of how it might be misused how the industry is going to
00:54:43
develop safety guard rails okay and then you can talk about regulation look you create some new FDA right now okay first
00:54:51
of all we know what would happen look at the drug process as soon as the FDA got
00:54:55
involved it slowed down massively now it takes years many years to get a drug approved appropriately so yes but at
00:55:02
least with a drug we know what the gold standard is you run a double-blind study
00:55:06
to see whether it causes harm or whether it's beneficial we don't know what that
00:55:11
standard is for AI yet we have no idea what's going to happen in a double blind study in AI what no you'd have somebody
00:55:19
review the code you have two instances Auto GPT it's benign I mean my friend used it to book a wine tasting
00:55:32
so who's going to review that code and then speculate say oh well 99.9 of cases it's perfectly benevolent and fine and
00:55:42
innocuous you know I can fantasize about some cases someone might do hold on how
00:55:46
are you supposed to resolve that very simple there are two types of Regulation that can occur in any industry you can
00:55:51
do with the movie industry did which is they self-regulate and they came up with
00:55:55
their own rating system or you can do what happens with the FDA and what happens with cars which is an external
00:56:01
government-based body I think now is the time for self-regulation so that we avoid the massive heavy hand of
00:56:08
government having to come in here but these tools can be used today to create massive Farm they're moving at a pace we
00:56:13
just said in the first half of the show that none of us have ever seen every 48 Hours something drops that is
00:56:19
mind-blowing that's never happened before and you can take these tools and in the one example
00:56:25
that shmoth and I came up with the top of our head in 30 seconds you could create phishing sites compromise
00:56:31
people's bank accounts take all the money out Delete all the files and cause chaos on a scale that has never been
00:56:37
possible by a series of Russian hackers or Chinese hackers working in a boiler room this can scale and that is the the
00:56:45
fundamental difference here and I didn't think I would be sitting here Steel Man
00:56:48
in tremont's argument I think humans have a horrible ability to compound I think people do not understand compound
00:56:53
interest and this is a perfect example where when you start to compound technology at the rate of 24 hours or 48
00:56:59
hours which we've never really had to acknowledge most people's brains break and they don't understand what six
00:57:04
months from now looks like and six months from now when you're compounding at 48 or 72 hours is like 10 to 12 years
00:57:12
in other Technology Solutions this is compounding this is this is different because of the compounding I agree with
00:57:18
that the pace Revolution is very fast we are on a bullet train to something and we don't know exactly what it is and
00:57:24
that's disconcerting however let me tell you what would happen if we create a new
00:57:27
regulatory body like the FDA to regulate this they would have no idea how to arbitrate whether a technology should be
00:57:34
approved or not development will basically slow to a crawl to slight drug development there is no double-blind
00:57:39
standard I agreement can we do what self-regulation can we do there is no double blind standard in AI that
00:57:46
everyone can agree on right now to know whether something should be approved and
00:57:49
what's going to happen is the thing that's made software development so magical and allowed all this Innovation
00:57:55
over the last 25 years is permissionless innovation any developer any Dropout from a university can go
00:58:03
create their own project which turns into a company and that is what has driven all the Innovation and progress
00:58:09
in our economy over the last 25 years so you're going to replace permissionless Innovation with going to Washington to
00:58:14
go through some approval process and it will be the politically connected it'll be the big donors who get their projects
00:58:21
approved and the next Mark Zuckerberg who's trying to do his little project in a dorm room somewhere will not know how
00:58:27
to do that well not know how to compete and that highly political process I think you're mixing a bunch of things
00:58:32
together so first of all permissionless Innovation happens today in biotech as well it's just that it's what Jason said
00:58:39
when you want to put it on the rails of society and make it available to everybody you you actually have to go
00:58:45
and do something substantive in the negotiation of these drug approvals it's not some standardized
00:58:51
thing you actually sit with the FDA and you have to decide what are our endpoints what is the mechanism of
00:58:55
action and how will we measure the efficacy of this thing the idea that you can't do this today in
00:59:01
AI is laughable yes you can and I think that smart people so for example if you pit deep Minds team versus open ai's
00:59:08
Team to both agree that a model is good and correct I bet you they would find a systematic way to test that it's fine
00:59:15
I just want to point out okay so basically in order to do what you're saying okay this entrepreneur
00:59:21
who just dropped out of college to do their project they're gonna have to learn how to go sit with Regulators have
00:59:26
a conversation with them go through some complicated approval process and you're
00:59:30
trying to say that that won't turn into a game of political connections of course it will of course it will of
00:59:36
course which is self-regulation yeah well let's get to that hold on a second and let's
00:59:42
look at the drug approval process if you want to create a drug company you need to raise hundreds of millions of dollars
00:59:48
it's incredibly expensive it's incredibly Capital intensive there is no drug company that is two guys in their
00:59:55
garage like many of the biggest companies like many of the biggest companies in Silicon Valley started that
01:00:01
is because you're talking about taking a chemical or biological compound and injecting into some hundreds or
01:00:08
thousands of people who are both racially gender-based age-based highly stratified
01:00:15
all around the world or at a minimum all around the country you're not talking about that here David I think that you
01:00:21
could have a much simpler and cheaper way where you have a version of the internet that's running in a huge
01:00:27
sandbox someplace that's closed off from the rest of the internet and another version of the internet that's closed
01:00:32
off from everything else as well and you can run on a parallel path as it is with this agent and you can
01:00:38
easily in my opinion actually figure out whether this agent is good or bad and you can probably do it in weeks so I
01:00:45
actually think the approvals are actually not that complicated and the reason to do it here is because I get
01:00:51
that it may cause a little bit more friction for some of these Mom and Pops but if you think about what's the
01:00:59
societal and consequences of letting the worst case outcomes happen the AGI type
01:01:05
outcomes happen I think those are so bad they're worth slowing some folks down and I think like just because you want
01:01:12
to you know buy groceries for a hundred dollars you should be able to do it I get it but if people don't realize and
01:01:19
connect the dots between that and bringing airplanes down then that's because they don't understand what this
01:01:23
is capable of I'm not saying we're never going to need regulation what I'm saying
01:01:27
is it's way too early we don't even know what we're accolading we don't know what
01:01:31
the standard would be and what we will do by racing to create a new FDA is destroying American innovation in the
01:01:37
sector and other countries will not slow down they will beat us to the puncher got it I think there's a middle ground
01:01:43
here of self-regulation and thoughtfulness on the part of the people who are providing
01:01:48
these tools at scale to give just but one example here and this tweet is from five minutes ago so to look at the pace
01:01:54
of this five minutes ago this tweet came out a developer who is an AI developer says AI agents continue to amaze my gpt4
01:02:03
coding assistant learned how to build apps with authenticated users that can build and design a web app create a back
01:02:08
end handle off logins upload code to GitHub and deploy he literally while we were talking is
01:02:17
deploying websites now if this website was a phishing app or the one that shamop is talking about he could make a
01:02:25
gazillion different versions of banking of America Wells Fargo et cetera then find everybody on the internet's email
01:02:31
then start sending different spoofing emails determine which spoofing emails work iterate on those and create a
01:02:37
Global Financial collapse now this sounds insane but it's happening right now people get hacked every day at one
01:02:42
two three percent sax fraud is occurring right now in the low single digit percentages identity
01:02:49
theft is happening in the low single identity percentages this technology is moving so fast that bad actors could 10x
01:02:56
that relatively easy and so if 10 of us want to be hacked and have our credit card attacked this could create chaos I
01:03:03
think self-regulation is the solution I'm the one who brought up self-regulation what I said no I brought
01:03:07
it up first I brought it up first I get credit no go ahead no it's not about credit I'm no self-regulations
01:03:15
you talk for eight minutes so if you have a point to make you should have got in the eight minutes oh my God you guys
01:03:20
kept interrupting me go ahead what I said is that there are trust and safety teams at these big AI companies these
01:03:27
big foundation model companies like open AI like I said in the past trust and safety has been a
01:03:34
euphemism for censorship and that's why people don't trust it but I think it would be appropriate for these platform
01:03:40
companies to apply some guard rails on how their tools can be used and based on everything I know they're doing that so
01:03:47
this guy just released websites to the Austin web with chat gp4 and he's going to have it do it automated you're
01:03:52
basically postulating capabilities that don't yet exist I just tweeted the guy is doing it he's got a video of himself
01:03:58
doing it on the web what do you think that's a far cry from basically running like some fishing
01:04:04
Expedition that's going to bring down the entire banking system uh literally a fishing a fishing site and a
01:04:10
ns are the same thing go ahead Freeburg I think that that guy is doing something illegal if he's
01:04:16
hacking into computers uh into people's emails and bank accounts that's illegal you're not allowed to do that
01:04:23
and so that action breaks the law that person can be prosecuted for doing that the tooling that one might use to do
01:04:31
that can be used in a lot of different ways just like you could use Microsoft Word
01:04:37
to forge letters just like you could use Microsoft Excel to create fraudulent financial statements I think that the
01:04:44
application of a platform technology needs to be distinguished from the technology itself and while we all
01:04:53
feel extraordinarily fearful because the unbelievable leverage that these AI tools provide again I'll remind you that
01:05:00
the chat gpt4 or this gpt4 model by some estimates is call it a few terabytes you could store it on a hard
01:05:08
drive or you could store it on your iPhone and you could then go run it on any set of servers that you could go set
01:05:13
up physically anywhere so you know it's a little bit naive to say we can go ahead and you know regulate platforms
01:05:20
and we can go regulate the tools certainly we should continue to enforce and protect ourselves against nefarious
01:05:27
actors using you know new Tools in inappropriate illegal ways you know I I also think that there's a
01:05:34
moment here that we should all kind of observe just how quickly we want to shut things down when
01:05:43
you know they take away what feels like the the control that we all have from one day to the next and you know
01:05:52
that the the real kind of sense of fear that seems to be quite contagious for a large number of people that have
01:06:00
significant assets or significant things to lose is that uh you know tooling that's
01:06:06
that's you know creating entirely newly disruptive systems and models for business and and economics
01:06:13
an opportunity for so many needs to be regulated away to minimize you know what we claim to be some
01:06:20
potential downside when we already have laws that protect us on the other side so you know I just kind of
01:06:27
want to also consider that this set of tools creates extraordinary opportunity we gave one sort of simple example about
01:06:34
the opportunity for creators but we talked about how new business models new businesses can be started with one or
01:06:40
two people you know entirely new tools can be built with a handful of people entirely new
01:06:45
businesses this is an incredible Economic Opportunity and again if the U.S tries to regulate it or the U.S
01:06:51
tries to come in and stop the application of models in general or regulate models in general you're
01:06:56
certainly going to see those models of continue to evolve and continue to be utilized in very powerful ways that are
01:07:02
going to be advantageous to places outside the U.S there's over 180 countries on Earth they're not all
01:07:07
going to regulate together it's been hard enough to get any sort of coordination around Financial systems to
01:07:13
get coordination around climate change to get coordination around anything on a global basis to try and get coordination
01:07:19
around the software models that are being developed I think is is pretty naive you don't want to have a global
01:07:25
organization I think you need to have a domestic organization that protects U.S and I think Europe will have their own
01:07:30
they again FDA versus Emma Canada has its own Japan has its own China has its own and they they have a lot of overlap
01:07:39
and a lot of commonality in in the guardrails they use and I think that's what's going to happen here this will be
01:07:43
beneficial only for political insiders who will basically be able to get their projects and their apps approved with a
01:07:49
huge dead weight loss for the system because Innovation will completely slow down but to many build on freeburg's
01:07:53
point which is that we have to remember that AI won't just be used by nefarious actors it'll be
01:08:00
used by positive actors so there will be new tools that law enforcement will be able to use and if somebody's creating
01:08:07
phishing sites at scale they're going to be probably pretty easy for you know law
01:08:11
enforcement AIS to detect so let's not forget that there'll be co-pilots written for our law enforcement
01:08:18
authorities they'll be able to use that to basically detect and fight crime and a really good example of this is in the
01:08:23
crypto space we saw this article over the past week that chain analysis has figured out how to basically track you
01:08:30
know illicit Bitcoin transactions and there's now a huge number of prosecutions that are happening of
01:08:36
illegal use of Bitcoin and if you go back to when Bitcoin first took off there was a lot of conversations around
01:08:43
Silk Road and the only thing that Bitcoin was good for was basically illegal transactions blackmailing drug
01:08:49
trafficking and therefore we have to stop Bitcoin remember that was the main argument and the counter argument was
01:08:56
that well no Bitcoin like any technology can be used for good or bad however there will be technologies that spring
01:09:03
up to combat those nefarious or illicit use cases and sure enough you had a company
01:09:08
like chain analysis come along and now it's been used by law enforcement to basically crack down on the illicit use
01:09:14
of Bitcoin and if anything it's cleaned up the Bitcoin Community tremendously and I think it's dispelled this idea
01:09:20
that the only thing you'd use Bitcoin for is Black Market transactions quite the contrary I think you'd be really
01:09:26
stupid now to use Bitcoin in that way it's actually turned Bitcoin into something of a Honeypot now because if
01:09:33
you used it for nefarious transactions your transactions recording the blockchain forever or just waiting for
01:09:38
chain analysis to find it so again using Bitcoin to do something illegal be really stupid I think in a similar way
01:09:45
you're going to see self-regulation by these major AI platform companies combined with new tools that are used
01:09:51
new AI tools does spring up to help combat the nefarious uses and until we let those forces play out
01:09:59
I'm not saying regulate never I'm just saying we need to let those forces play out before we leap to creating some new
01:10:06
regulatory body that doesn't even understand what its mandated mission's supposed to be the Bitcoin story is
01:10:11
hilarious by the way oh my God Wall Street Journal story it's unbelievable pretty epic it took years
01:10:17
but basically this guy was buying blow on suck Road and he deposited his Bitcoin and then when he withdrew it he
01:10:25
there was a bug that gave him twice as many Bitcoins so he kept creating more accounts putting more money into Silk
01:10:31
Road and getting more Bitcoin out and then years later the authorities figured this out again with you know
01:10:37
chain analysis type things look at James zong over there same song he accused uh
01:10:43
had a Lamborghini a Tesla a lake house uh and was living his best life apparently when the feds uh knocked on
01:10:51
his door and found the digital keys to his crypto Fortune in a popcorn tin in his bathroom and in
01:10:58
a safe in his basement floor so there you have it well the reason the reason I posted this was I
01:11:05
was like what if this claim that you could have all these Anonymous transactions actually fold
01:11:13
the entire Market because it looks like that this anonymity has effectively been
01:11:20
reverse engineered and there's no anonymity at all and so what Bitcoin is quickly becoming is like the most
01:11:27
singular Honeypot of transactional information that's complete and available in public and I think what
01:11:35
this article talks about is how companies like chain analysis and others have worked now for years almost a
01:11:41
decade with law enforcement to be able to map all of it and so now every time money goes from one Bitcoin wallet to
01:11:49
another they effectively know the sender and the recipient and I just want to make a one quick correction here it
01:11:55
wasn't actually exactly popcorn it was Cheetos spicy flavored popcorn and there's the tin of it
01:12:03
where he had a motherboard of a computer that held is there a chance that that this project was actually introduced by
01:12:10
the government I mean there's been reports or network that the CIA had their hands
01:12:17
all over to our Tor if you don't know it which is an anonymous like multi-relay peer-to-peer web browsing system and
01:12:25
people believe it's a CIA Honeypot an intentional trap for criminals to get themselves uh caught up in
01:12:35
all right as we wrap here what an amazing discussion my Lord I didn't I never thought I would be I want to say
01:12:40
one thing yes we saw that someone was arrested for the murder of Bob Lee that's what I was about to
01:12:48
answer this morning yeah which turns out that the report of the sfpd's arrest is
01:12:53
that it's uh someone that he knew that also works in the tech industry someone that possibly know right so also
01:12:58
breaking news yes possibly but I I want to say two things one obviously based on this arrest and the
01:13:05
storyline it's quite different than what we all assumed it to be which was some sort of homeless robbery type moment
01:13:12
that has become all too commonplace in SF it's a commentary for me on two things one is how quick we all were to
01:13:20
kind of Judge and assume that you know a homeless robber type person would do this in SF which I think speaks to the
01:13:28
condition in SF right now also speaks to our conditioning that that we all kind of lacked or didn't
01:13:34
even want to engage in a conversation that maybe this person was murdered by someone that they knew
01:13:40
because we wanted to kind of very quickly fill our own narrative about how bad SF is
01:13:45
and that's just something that I really felt when I read this this morning I was
01:13:47
like man like I didn't even consider the possibility that this guy was murdered by someone that he knew because I am so
01:13:54
enthralled right now by this narrative that SF is so bad and it must be another data point that validates my point of
01:13:59
view on SF so you know I kind of want to just acknowledge that and acknowledge that we all kind of do that right now
01:14:05
but I do think it also does in fact unfortunately speak to how bad things are in SF because we all are we've all
01:14:11
have these experiences of feeling like we're in danger and under Threat all the time we're walking around in SF uh in so
01:14:16
many parts of San Francisco I should say where things feel like they've gotten really bad I think both things can be
01:14:22
true that we can kind of feel biased and fill our own narrative by kind of latching on to our assumption
01:14:30
about what something tells us but but it also tells us quite a lot about what is going on in ourselves so I
01:14:35
I just I just wanted to make sure In fairness and I think it's fine for you to make that point I am extremely
01:14:41
Vigilant on this program to always say when something is breaking news with whole judgment whether it's the Trump
01:14:45
case or Jesse Smollett or anything in between January 6th let's wait until we get all the facts and in fact quote from
01:14:52
sacks we don't know exactly what happened yet correct literally sax started with that
01:14:59
we do that every [ __ ] time on this program we know when there's breaking news to withhold judgment but you can
01:15:06
also know two things can be true a tolerance for ambiguity is necessary but I'm saying I
01:15:12
didn't even do that as soon as I heard this I was like I was like an assumption but David that is a fine assumption to
01:15:19
make that's a fine essential technical assumption listen you make that assumption for your own protection we
01:15:25
got all these reporters who are basically propagandists trying to claim that crime is down in San Francisco
01:15:29
they're all basically seeking comment from me this morning sending emails or trying to dunk God on us because we
01:15:35
basically talked about the bubbly case in that way listen we said that we didn't know what happened but if we were
01:15:43
to bet at least what I said is I bet this case it looks like a lot like the Brianna cup for case that was logical
01:15:49
that's not conditioning or biased that's logic and you need to look at what else
01:15:54
happened that week okay so just the same week that bubbly was killed let me give
01:15:59
you three other examples of things that happened in Gotham City AKA San Francisco so number one former fire
01:16:07
commissioner Don carmignani was beaten within an inch of his life by a group of homeless addicts in the marina and one
01:16:14
of them was interviewed in terms of why it happened and basically Don came down from his mother's house and told them to
01:16:21
move off his mother's front porch because they were obstructing her ability to get in and out of her
01:16:25
apartment they interpreted that as disrespect and they beat him with a tire iron or a metal pipe and one of the
01:16:32
hoodlums who was involved in this apparently admitted this yeah play the video somebody over the head like that
01:16:38
and attack him as he was really disrespectful he so he was being disrespectful and then
01:16:52
but is that enough to beat him up yeah sometimes oh my Lord I mean so this is case number one and apparently in the
01:17:01
reporting on that person who was just interviewed he's been in the marina kind of terrorizing people maybe not
01:17:07
physically but verbally so you have you know bands of homeless people encamped in front of people's
01:17:14
houses Don carmignani gets beaten within an inch of his life you then had the case of the Whole Foods Store on Market
01:17:21
Street shut down in San Francisco and this was not a case of shoplifting like some of the other store closings we've
01:17:27
seen they said they were closing the store because they could not protect their employees the bathrooms were
01:17:33
filled with needles and pipes that were drug paraphernalia you had drug acts going in there using it they were
01:17:39
engaging in altercations with store employees and Whole Foods felt like they had to close the store because again
01:17:44
they could not protect their employees third example Board of Supervisors had to disband their own meeting because
01:17:52
their internet connection got vandalized the fiber for the cable connection to provide their internet got vandalized so
01:18:00
they had to basically disband their meeting Aaron Prescott was the one who announced this and you saw in the
01:18:04
response to this yeah my retweetingham went viral there were lots of people said yeah I've got a small business and
01:18:11
the fiber or the copper wire whatever was vandalized and in a lot of cases I think it's basically drug addicts
01:18:17
stealing whatever they can they steal ten dollars of copper wire sell that to get a hit and it causes forty thousand
01:18:23
dollars of property damage here's the insincerity sex literally the proper response when there's violence in San
01:18:30
Francisco is hey we need to make this place less violent is there a chance that it could be people who know each
01:18:35
other of course that's inherent in any crime that occurs that there'll be time to investigate it but literally the
01:18:41
Press is now using this as a moment to say there's no crime in San Francisco where that people are acting like I just
01:18:48
have the New York Times email me during the podcast Heather knight from The Chronicle San
01:18:53
Francisco Chronicle in light of the Bob Lee killing appearing to be an interpersonal dispute she still doesn't
01:18:58
know right we don't have all the facts with another tech leader do you think the Tech Community jumped to conclusions
01:19:03
why are so many Tech leaders painting San Francisco as a dystopian hellscape with the reality with the reality is
01:19:10
more nuanced I think it's a little typo there yeah yes it's like of course the reality is nuanced of course it's a
01:19:16
hellscape walk down the street Heather can I give you a theory please I think it was most evident in the way
01:19:26
that Elon dismantled and manhandled the BBC reporter oh my God that was brutal this
01:19:33
is a small microcosm of what I think media is so I used to think that media had an agenda
01:19:42
I actually now think that they don't particularly have an agenda other than to be relevant because they
01:19:49
see waning relevance and so I think what happens is whenever there are a bunch of
01:19:55
articles that tilt a pendulum into a narrative they all of a sudden become very focused
01:20:02
on refuting that narrative and even if it means they have to lie they'll do it right so you know I think for months and
01:20:11
months I think people have seen that the quality of the discourse on Twitter became better and better
01:20:16
Elon is doing a lot with Bots and all of this stuff cleaning it up and this guy had to try to establish the
01:20:23
counter narrative and was willing to lie in order to do it then he was dismantled
01:20:28
here you guys I don't have a bone to pick so much at San Francisco I think I've been relatively silent on this
01:20:33
topic but you guys as residents and former residents I think have a vested interest in the quality of that City and
01:20:39
you guys have been very vocal but I think that you're not the only ones Michelle tandler you know sheldonberger
01:20:44
there's a bunch of smart thoughtful people who've been beating this drum Gary tan
01:20:51
and so now I think reporters don't want to write the N plus first article saying
01:20:56
that San Francisco is a hellscape so they have to take the other side and so now they're going to go and pick
01:21:02
up the counter narrative and they'll probably dismantle the truth and kind of redirect it in order to do it so I think
01:21:09
that what you're seeing is they'll initially tell a story but well then there's too much of the truth
01:21:14
they'll go to the other side because that's the only way to get clicks and be seen
01:21:18
so I think that that's what you guys are a part of right now they are in the business of protecting the narrative but
01:21:22
I I do think there's a huge ideological component to the narrative both in the Elon case where they're trying to claim
01:21:28
that there was a huge rise in hate speech on Twitter the reason they're saying that is because they want Twitter
01:21:33
to engage in more censorship that's the ideological agenda here the agenda is this radical agenda of decarceration
01:21:41
they actually believe that more and more people should be led out of prison and so therefore they have an incentive to
01:21:48
deny the existence of crime in San Francisco and the rise in crime in San Francisco if you pull most people in San
01:21:56
Francisco large majorities of San Francisco believe that crime is on the rise because they can see it they hear
01:22:00
it and what I would say is look I think there's a pyramid of activity a pyramid of criminal or anti-social behavior in
01:22:09
San Francisco that we can all see the base level is you've got a level of chaos on the streets where you have
01:22:15
open-air drug markets people doing drugs sometimes you'll see you know a person doing something disgusting you know like
01:22:22
people defecating on the streets or even worse then there's like a level up where
01:22:26
they're chasing after you or you know harassing you people have experienced that I've experienced that then there's
01:22:31
a level up where there's petty crime your car gets broken into or something like that then there's the level where
01:22:38
you get mugged and then finally the top of the pyramid is that there's a murder and it's true that most of the time the
01:22:45
issues don't go all the way to the top of the pyramid where someone is murdered okay but that doesn't mean there's not a
01:22:51
vast pyramid underneath that of basically quality of life issues and I think this term quality of life was
01:22:58
originally used as some sort of way to minimize the behavior that was going on saying that they weren't really crimes
01:23:06
we shouldn't worry about them but if anything what we've seen in San Francisco is that when you ignore
01:23:11
quality of life crimes you will actually see a huge diminishment in what it's like to
01:23:17
live in these cities like quality of life is real and that's the issue and I think what they're trying to do now is
01:23:23
that say that because Baba Lee wasn't the case that we thought it was that that whole pyramid doesn't exist that
01:23:30
pyramid exists we can all experience oh my God I mean and that's the insincerity
01:23:34
of this it is insincere and the existence of that pyramid that we can see and hear and feel and experience
01:23:40
every day is why we're willing to make a bet we called it a bet that the Bob Lee
01:23:45
case was like the Brianna kupfer case and in that with the disclaimer with a disclaimer and we always do a disclaimer
01:23:51
here and just to George Hammond from the financial times who emailed me here's what he asked me there's a lot of public
01:23:56
attention lately on weather San Francisco status has one of the top Business and Technology hubs in the US
01:24:00
is at risk in the aftermath of the pandemic duh obviously it is I wondered if you had a moment to chat about that
01:24:06
and whether there's a danger that negative perceptions about the city will damage its reputation for Founders and
01:24:11
capital locations in the future so essentially the enemy says the obviously a lot of potential for hysteria in this
01:24:17
conversation which I'm Keen to avoid and it's like have you walked down the street and I asked him have you walked
01:24:23
down the street in San Francisco Jason the best response is send him the thing that Sac sent which is the amount of
01:24:28
available office space in San Francisco companies are voting with their feet so it's already if the quality of life
01:24:37
wasn't so poor they'd stay this is the essence of gaslighting is what they do is the people who've actually created
01:24:43
the situation in San Francisco with their policies their policies of defunding the police making it harder
01:24:49
for the police to do their job decriminalizing theft under 950 allowing open-air drug markets the people who
01:24:55
have now created that Matrix of policies have created the situation what they then turn around and do is say no the
01:25:00
people are creating the problem are the ones who are observing this that's all we're doing is observing and complaining
01:25:06
about it and what they try to do is say well no you're you're running down San Francisco we're not the ones creating
01:25:11
the problem we're observing it and just this week another data point is is that the mayor's office said that they were
01:25:17
short more than 500 police officers in San Francisco yeah nobody who who's going to become a police officer here
01:25:22
are you crazy well and there's another article just this week about how there's a lot of speculation rumors are swirling
01:25:29
of an unofficial strike in an informal strike by police officers who are normally on the force who are tired of
01:25:36
risking life and limb and then you know they basically risk getting at a physical altercation with a homeless
01:25:42
person they bring them in and then they're just released again so there's a lot of quiet quitting that's going on in
01:25:47
the job it's like this learned helplessness because why take a risk and then the police commission doesn't have
01:25:53
your back it seems like the only time you have prosecutorial Zeal by a lot of these prosecutors is when they can go
01:25:58
after a cop not one of these repeat offenders and you just saw that by the way in L.A oh look motherboard and New
01:26:04
York Times just emailed and dm'd me and then and then did you guys say that instead of solving these issues the
01:26:09
Board of Supervisors was dealing with a wild parrot what was it the meeting that was disbanded they had
01:26:19
or yeah they had scheduled a meeting to vote on whether the wild parrots are the official animal of the city of San
01:26:27
Francisco so that was the uh the scheduled meeting that got uh disbanded also connect may I
01:26:33
just clarify what is talking about with the Elon interview a BBC reporter interviewed Elon and said there is much
01:26:39
more race and hate and hate speech in the feeds on Twitter and he said can you give me an example and he said well I
01:26:47
don't have an example but people are saying this he said which people are saying it and the BBC reporter said well
01:26:51
just different groups of people are saying it and you know I've certainly seen you said okay you saw it and for
01:26:56
you he goes no I stopped looking at for you he said so give me one example of hate speech that you've seen in your
01:27:02
feed now we without speaking about any inside information which I do not have much of
01:27:07
they've been pretty deliberate of removing hate speech from places like for you and you know it's a very
01:27:12
complicated issue when you have an open platform but the the you people may say a word but it doesn't reach a lot of
01:27:19
people so if you were to say something really nasty it doesn't take a genius to block that and not have it reach a bunch
01:27:24
of people this reporter kept insisting to Elon that this was on the rise with no factual basis for it that other
01:27:30
people said it and then he said but I don't look at the feed he said so you're telling me that there's more hate speech
01:27:35
that you've seen But you just admitted to me that you haven't looked at the for you feed in three months and it was just
01:27:40
like this completely weird thing and this is the thing if you're a journalist just cut it down the middle
01:27:49
come with prepared with facts listen and stop taking a position either way I want
01:27:54
to connect one dot please which is that he filled in his own narrative even though the data wasn't necessarily there
01:28:02
in the same way that you know we kind of filled in our narrative about San Francisco with the Bob Lee
01:28:09
you know Murder being another example we put a disclaimer on it we did it hold on a second we so we knew
01:28:17
we didn't know and furthermore we're taking great pains this week to correct the record and explain what we now know
01:28:24
yeah to be intellectually honest this is just intellectual honesty honestly you're you're you're going soft
01:28:34
here Freeburg you're getting gas lit by all these people I think the guy the guy totally the guy
01:28:40
totally had zero data put the report on data and evidence so he certainly you know I think probably
01:28:47
with Don carmignani it's the same story yeah this is that Don Don happened to survive guys I love I love you but I
01:28:55
gotta go goodbye here's what Maxwell from motherboard have fun there's been a lot of discussion about the future of
01:29:02
San Francisco and the death has quickly become politicized has that caused any division or
01:29:07
disagreement from what you've seen or has that not been the case the Press is gleeful right now like oh my God you
01:29:16
know it's just like the right was gleeful with Jesse Smollett having gotten himself beaten up or you know
01:29:21
setting up his own all right everybody four the Sultan of science currently conducting
01:29:29
experiments on a beach to see uh exactly how burned he can get with his SPF 200 under an umbrella wearing a sun shirt
01:29:37
and pants Freeburg on the beach wears the same outfit astronauts wear when they do
01:29:43
space walks hey stable diffusion make me an image of David Friedberg wearing a full body bathing suit covered in SPF
01:29:51
200 under three umbrellas on a sunny Beach oh my God for the dictator polyhapatia creating regulations and the
01:30:04
regular oh the regulator you can call me the regular the regulator see you tonight when we'll eat our orchalant
01:30:10
what's left of them the final four or five ortalons in existence otherwise I'm putting you on the b list today I will
01:30:17
be there I will be there I promise I promise I promise can't wait to be there and
01:30:21
the Rain Man himself he didn't even get to putting Ron versus I think you should ask Auto GPT how you
01:30:34
can eat more endangered animals have a plan for you yes and then have it go kill those animals
01:30:41
on the dark web to go kill the remaining rhinos and bring them to chamat's house
01:30:45
for poker night I don't think rhinos would taste good wasn't that the plot of a movie but it
01:30:52
was a oh did you guys see is cocaine bear out yet no it was a Matthew Broderick Marlon Brando movie right
01:30:57
where they're doing the takeoff on The Godfather was the Freshman yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like a conspiracy to
01:31:02
eat uh endangered animals yes the freshman the president came out in 1990 yeah that
01:31:10
Marlon Brando did it with um Matthew Broderick and like Bruno Kirby they actually they that was the whole thing
01:31:16
there's no Kirby that's a deeper actually uh they were eating endangered animals what
01:31:22
do you what do you think heat too is that going to be good sex I know Heat's one of your favorite films me too it's
01:31:27
awesome is there a sequel coming they're gonna do he too and the novel's already
01:31:30
come out Adam Driver so I saw the novel yeah he's amazing one of those movies where when it comes
01:31:36
on you just can't stop watching yeah best bank robbery slash shootout in movie history you know that is literally
01:31:45
the best film ever like it's up there with like the Joker with Reservoir Dogs the the the Joker in that Batman movie
01:31:52
where he robs the bank like I mean what I love you guys all right love you besties and four blah blah blah blah
01:31:58
blah this has been the all-in podcast 124. if you want to go to the fan meetups and hang out with others
01:32:07
we'll let your winners ride [Music] and they've just gone crazy [Music] foreign [Music]
01:32:56
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