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freeberg free bro what's up it seems like you have a piece of [ __ ] on the side of your mouth or is that a
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birthmark oh no that's a birthday catcher did you record that yeah absolutely jesus
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look at this guy he takes his shirt off for one [ __ ] selfie and now everybody who's fat and pal on the show the other
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three of us is gonna be ridiculed i'm having steak tonight s-t-e-a-k tonight i'm lifting twice a
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week now oh come on sacks come get some let's [ __ ] go three two let your winners ride
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rain man david sources to the fans [Music] hey everybody hey everybody welcome to
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another episode of the all in podcast with me again the dictator himself trump paulie hapatia rain man
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david sacks definitely with us definitely a great driver his dad lets him drive in the driveway
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and of course everybody's favorite the queen of quinoa the science conductor himself
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david freeman queen the queen a lot of activity online it's been a little bit of chaos since we
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all got together here i guess we should talk about this apple story with antonio garcia martinez you may
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have heard that he was hired by apple to i guess run their ad efforts and i have a little bit
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of information on kind of what he was going to do there in terms of ads which is really interesting
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um but uh tell us tell us tell us tell us okay well anyway you know how we're basically start at
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the beginning and assume people don't know who antonio garcia so antonio garcia martinez was a
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facebook developer he is some really smart guy who uses a lot of big words and wrote a
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book called chaos monkeys which is a great book where he takes um a very jack kerouac
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kind of you know a lot of pros and uh he wrote this book about his time at facebook
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the problem is he said some things in the book that would be five years later problematic at the time they were
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actually considered problematic by some folks and in the full quote maybe uh less
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problematic but he was essentially ousted because of the following problematic quote um
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the quote is most women in the bay area are soft and weak costed and naive despite their claims of
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worldliness and generally full of [ __ ] they have their self regarding entitlement feminism
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and ceaselessly vaunt their independence but the reality is come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion they
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become precisely the sort of useless baggage you trade for a box of shotgun shells
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or a jerry can of diesel and they shorten that quote to be that most women are soft and weak
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and uh full of [ __ ] so in context in context in this book he was contrasting the bay
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area women he had dated with the mother of kids who he describes as strong and tall
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and tough and amazing but still the quote's a little gnarly and the quote out of
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you know when it's out of context becomes particularly gnarly and of course um this led to
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a petition at apple which then led to him being fired uh which now is going to lead to him
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probably getting a 10 million dollar settlement uh of course there's a lot of hypocrisy being brought up here because
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apple has allegedly been using or apple's supply chain has slave labor in it from the uyghurs
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and other ethnic minorities um and obviously apple gave dr dre billions of dollars
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uh for uh beats by dre and uh he has a even more misogynistic um series of lyrics and was also accused of
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physically assaulting um i believe his wife and other people he dated who dr dre dr dre yeah
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uh so anyway uh what do you think okay there you go next story no i'm happy to jump into this
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um i think jason i think you're you're you focus a little bit too much and i saw your your pod with zach coleus on
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this um a lot of good takes but i think you're a little too focused on what agm as i think it's easier to call him
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by his initials what he did as opposed to what the employees at apple did and um there's at least four things that
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apple did or five things that apple did wrong i mean number one i think there was a really good reason
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not to hire this guy which is that he wrote a best-selling tell-all book about the
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last big tech company he worked at so why if you're a big tech company why in the world would you hire him so that
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was stupid decision number one but they did decide to hire him and once they hire him they
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gotta treat him like any other employee and give him a chance to show what he can do
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and so that leads to mistake number two which is these 2000 employees who signed
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this petition really distorted and took out of context that passage and i know the passage is
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cringe okay um and gnarly and and it could you know certainly appear sexist but you
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have to put it in its context and the the larger con this is a work of literature this is a best-selling
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uh book it's 150 000 words they're taking 150 words out of context and the context was like
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you said he's describing the mother of his children the love of his life in as this sort of
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linda hamilton-esque in terminator type figure or charlize theron in mad max and this passage is not in there to
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describe all women it's just basically a literary flourish to contrast the the the woman that he
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loves uh being such a badass compared to every other woman and and you know when kara swisher interviewed
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agm five years ago she bought this passage he explained it and she said yeah okay i get it
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so you know it it certainly the case that people can understand the context if they choose to and they simply
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are not choosing to understand the context which brings me to mistake number three
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which is these 2000 employees lied in their petition by claiming that their safety is threatened
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by apple hiring agm that is simply untrue it's physically impossible in the era of
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zoom when everyone's working from home but this guy is not a threat to anyone's safety but they you but they use that
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claim they make that claim because they know that if you accuse someone of threatening your safety it will trigger
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the machinery of hr to remove that person from the workplace this is the language of safetyism and
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it's a specific tactic to basically get somebody canceled and removed from the workplace
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okay and then that leads to the the next mistake i think mistake number four which is the bosses apple caved into
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this pressure they were total cowards they never even gave agm the chance to explain himself
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they never asked him what did you intend by this passage what were you trying to
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do and by the way they knew about this book when they were saying it's even worse
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they knew about the book they had vetted and they talked to many people as when a
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big time when a big tech company hires somebody for a major position like this they call all the references of course
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this is uncovered and dealt with of course they knew about it and then when the mob complains they fire him
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summarily without subjecting the decision to proper hr processes this is hr by mob
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rule it's totally unacceptable no company should be run this way and then finally that brings us to number five
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is that in explaining their decision and trying to justify their cowardice and giving it to the mob
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they said that they fired him because of his behavior agm never had a chance to engage in any behavior he barely started
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at the job this wasn't because of his behavior this is because of the book that he wrote
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five years ago so what they're saying is that if you ever publish a written work
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at any time in your life years and years ago that that can somehow constitute present day behavior
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and that other people in the workplace can have a problem with that be that this is not behavior and this is
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why he's going to have a giant um defamation suit and settlement because they are making him
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unemployable in the tech industry by claiming that he was fired for some some sexist behavior he was not what do
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you think he'll get paid in a settlement i put it at 10 10 million well i was just thinking he's a half million dollar
00:08:46
a year employee to a million with his rsu so let's just put it at a million unemployed for 10 to 20 years because of
00:08:53
this or the damages to his reputation and he doesn't value that back yeah so and yeah so i think 10 million is the
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number my curiosity in this was just um did those 2 000 employees feel the same way about dr dre
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of course or did they do they feel the same way about some of the movies that they sell
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uh in the itunes store or do they feel the same way about some of the games that they enable um into the app store
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or some of the subscriptions that are sold um right do they care do they care that
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much about what's happening in their chinese supply chain um i mean i think it seems at least on
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the outside the answer is no but it would be interesting to get an explanation of that from the same hr
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people i don't know whether the guy should have been fired or not but i do think that
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you should have a predictable standard and every company is allowed to do what they want if
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the standard at apple is that we are going to hold you accountable for everything you've done in the past
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irrespective of whether you've disavowed it or not so be it that's their right and i think
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that the employees of that company have a right to do that i think is that if you start to arbitrarily enforce it
00:10:06
you go down this weird place which is like basically i think what they're saying is
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if it's good for business we're going to ignore it if it's not obvious that it's good for
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business we'll act because it's a low-cost way of keeping the masses um you know that
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the medicated and i think that's what's even scarier to the 2000 people it's not that you know maybe they should
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feel proud that they got their pound of flesh but they really should figure out how
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they want to stand on all these other points because to cherry pick puts puts the whole
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company in just a weird posture that's that's not scalable freeberg uh i'm less interested in the hypocrisy
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and the values debate which is obvious that's kind of the first order point with all this stuff it's like do
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the employees have the right values is there hypocrisy by management is there hypocrisy by the employees
00:10:58
what strikes me though is um a failure of leadership at these organizations you know you guys
00:11:04
think back to brian armstrong's kind of purging of the woke mob and the political discourse that was happening
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at coinbase a few months ago he took a point of strong leadership um to a new level
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and i think it highlighted when the leader steps up and says this is how we're going to operate these are how
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we're going to make decisions and puts his foot down people will leave and you evolve the
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culture and i think it indicates to me that certain companies as they've gotten really big
00:11:30
and really successful like apple and even alphabet and various other kind of large tech
00:11:36
companies the leaders no longer lead the employees lead the narrative on culture
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and the narrative on values and um you know it speaks to two things one is that there perhaps aren't founder
00:11:50
leaders running those organizations anymore that there are managers whose jobs are critically important
00:11:55
whose job is to keep the wheels on and keep the wheels from falling off so they have more to lose
00:12:00
and they are constantly trying to protect the downside than they are trying to be aggressive about growing
00:12:05
to the upside um and then i think it's just uh you know secondly this kind of um you
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know failure uh to kind of define what your values are from a leadership perspective and
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the void gets filled by the employees the void gets filled by the mob and so while it's this one kind
00:12:23
of you know debatable point today and this one kind of hypocritical point today it's really interesting to see
00:12:28
that this isn't happening at other companies that are founder-led and if it is the you know the culture gets reached
00:12:35
would have handled this completely different steve jobs would not have let his employees tell him who or she would
00:12:40
have stopped concerned let's have a discussion a really clear point of view about who
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we hire why we hire them and how we make decisions and not let the democ democratic kind of rule
00:12:49
or the you know um it's not even democratic it's not like all employees took a vote how much of this chamoth has
00:12:55
to do with the coddling of silicon valley employees for two decades vis-a-vis you know you get driven to school on
00:13:01
your school bus you sit on you know you get your lunch prepared for you we do your dry cleaning
00:13:07
every friday you get to come and ask challenging questions to the leaders and this concept of like you know everybody
00:13:14
has a voice at work as opposed to this is a company controlled by shareholders and or a founder and you
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work for it and there is a trade of services here vis-a-vis what toby had to say at shopify which is
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this is not a family this is a sports team you are here to perform we are here to
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perform for our customers the end so the in fact if you if you had a chance and maybe nick we can post it in
00:13:36
the show notes but the email that toby lutky wrote to shopify employees was unbelievable that to me is like
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that's a tour de force that should be basically like that should be minted and sold as an nft
00:13:50
what's an nlt we forgot about those and it was it was it was just an incredible email adjacent to your point and the way
00:13:56
that that started if i i may be getting these facts wrong but there was an emoji of a noose
00:14:03
inside of a slack channel um and then and then folks got quite upset with it and so i think toby's response was to
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basically shut down the whole channel and say hey guys you know we're losing the script
00:14:17
about why we're here and you know i think brian armstrong's essay was a version of that
00:14:24
the question is why are we here if i had to guess i think it's because we've pumped so much money into silicon valley
00:14:30
companies they didn't know where to spend it and so i actually think that what we've really done is over
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hired far too many people into many of these companies and so they kind of are very smart people
00:14:42
sitting around twiddling their thumbs and so obviously they're just gonna get distracted
00:14:46
meaning um i remember like you know at facebook there was barely enough people to keep the lights on for a while
00:14:54
then i remember by the time i was leaving i was like wow there's way too many people
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here a lot of them and most of them were all really really smart but it wasn't obvious to me what many of
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them did and you know people would look at me and then say oh you know that's a really
00:15:07
arrogant thing to say and that's not true and everybody's valuable i don't know um you know if you look at
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google i've always thought like that company could probably run by 2 000 people but you know there's 200 000 people so
00:15:20
the 198 other thousand of them need to find something to do it's probably the same at apple it's
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probably the same at all these big tech companies and that's the leverage that you get
00:15:28
from technology it's naturally massively deflationary so but if you keep pumping
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billions and billions and billions of dollars into these companies where the app experience is written by
00:15:40
50 or 100 critical people or managed by 500 or a thousand critical people um this is the natural byproduct i think
00:15:49
which of all of that by the way freeberg said organizations want to grow right like
00:15:53
how many organizations say you know we should be smaller we don't see something sir you're saying something
00:15:57
really important not enough founders and boards understand the difference between growing a business
00:16:03
and growing an org those are two totally different things and the reason is because we've lost
00:16:09
sight of very simple financial metrics in silicon valley meaning if you go to any other industry where
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there is a cost of capital people understand what return on invested capital means they know how to
00:16:20
measure it yeah they know what operating leverage means they know what margin expansion means
00:16:24
we only have evaluation and they seek that out here we think about exactly as you said
00:16:30
valuation and so this idea that having a hundred people do the work and see margins lift is antithetical to the
00:16:37
silicon valley culture it's oh as margins go up let's just keep running the same
00:16:40
profitable business but instead have a 500 people a thousand what do you think you're an operations machine people
00:16:46
would say on a co basis you're one of the top three to five in the history of the
00:16:50
valley what do you say coo man um yeah i mean look chamath is right that in a company that's
00:16:57
well run and well led where uh people people don't have time on their hands to engage in these shenanigans
00:17:04
so yeah i mean i think i think that's absolutely right i think companies and startups are increasingly have to choose
00:17:10
whether they want to be apple or whether they want to be um coinbase or shopify for that matter and
00:17:17
just this this week at apple there's a new petition circling now there's a petition
00:17:22
called by thousands of employees calling for tim cook to denounce the israelis and endorse the
00:17:28
palestinian side of the conflict yeah how's that gonna work well does he have a position on abortion is there an
00:17:34
abortion position at well but but now that they've given in to the the woke mob there's no reason for the mob to stop
00:17:40
they're gonna be circulating a petition every week and that's kind of the point is
00:17:44
so and actually agm himself had a really good quote about this he did a great interview with um matt
00:17:50
taibi and um he laid out the choice that companies face like this he said it's interject
00:17:55
this is um antonio garcia martinez saying is interjecting the whole [ __ ] twitter
00:18:00
cesspool with all the dog piles and all the performative signaling and all that crap
00:18:04
into a corporate setting and replicating those dynamics and calling it work that's basically what happened is what's
00:18:11
happening is you your these employees are performing twitter at work on slack and they're pretending like
00:18:19
it's really work and it's not and i think you know founders are going to have to make a decision do you stand
00:18:25
up and take a uh brian armstrong-like position or a toby position or you would eventually degenerate into
00:18:32
some sort of or a baseball cap by the way or even base camp the most woke virtual
00:18:36
signaling founders on twitter decided to take that's right the most libertarian or spartan approach you know
00:18:45
stoic approach of toby to give you uh toby's well base camp just to finish the base
00:18:50
camp thought so so base camp try to accommodate this sort of like woke mentality
00:18:56
and what they found is that they got pushed so far it became so distracting they eventually
00:19:01
had to move to the armstrong position and that's kind of my point is once you yeah everybody's gonna move to that
00:19:06
yeah that's my point i mean and if you don't believe what i what i said was like listen if you believe that
00:19:11
a organization that allows political speech and this kind of stuff as a primary function inside the company
00:19:19
well then go build a competitor to base camp and show that that system works better here's toby's
00:19:24
quote to help you make this more clear to team members here are some pointers about
00:19:28
what shopify is not shopify like any for-profit company is not a family the very idea is
00:19:34
preposterous you are born into a family you never choose it and they can't un-family you it should
00:19:40
be massively obvious that shopify is not a family but i see people even leaders casually
00:19:45
use the term like shoppy fam which will cause the members of our teams especially junior ones that have
00:19:50
never worked anywhere else to get the wrong impression the dangers of family thinking in quotes
00:19:56
are that it becomes incredibly hard to let poor performers go shopify is a team italicized not
00:20:02
a family we literally only want the best people in the world the reason why you join shopify is because i hope
00:20:09
all other people you met during the interview process were really smart caring and committed this
00:20:13
is magic and it creates a virtuous magnetism on talented people because very few people in the world
00:20:19
have this in themselves people who don't should not be part of this team i mean when i was um when i was at
00:20:26
facebook strong when i was at facebook we used to convene the senior team and you know i was like i want i really
00:20:33
want to fire the bottom five or ten percent of the company and we would force stack rank and we did
00:20:37
it for about three or four years and then the excuse was it's too big and there are too many people and the rules are
00:20:42
too diverse and you can't rank i actually don't believe that even to this day i think it's pretty obvious
00:20:48
who the real 1000x kind of employee contributors are and by the way they exist in every function there's thousand
00:20:54
x sales people there's thousand x you know product managers there's there's the thousand x people that work
00:20:59
in facilities they exist in every job function and companies i don't think do a good enough
00:21:05
job of figuring out who they are and so instead what happens is people that are not even 100x or not even a 10x
00:21:11
are really more like a 1 or 1.1 x can basically hide in all of that noise and i think that if you could separate hr
00:21:19
into two things or there's really three things one is like benefits which is critical
00:21:24
the second is actually like safety and the ability to whistle blow if there's something really nefarious or bad that's
00:21:31
happened and then the third that's really valuable i think is organizational design right how do you put people
00:21:37
in good jobs and how do you allow them to have a huge amount of autonomy to run and build a career
00:21:42
but all of this other policing stuff to me just seems like um it cuddles to the lowest 25 percent i
00:21:49
don't know if that and this is my intuition to the lowest 25 percent performers of course
00:21:53
of course it does and just to uh close this story up and wrap to our next uh and tone agm announced that he is going
00:22:00
to take a year wait for it to write for sub stack so he is going to get paid 10 million
00:22:07
dollars i i would guesstimate in a settlement by apple he's going to get a half million
00:22:12
dollars i'll take it over on this oh i set such a good line we can bet on it yeah we can bet on it
00:22:20
i'll take the over who okay anybody want the under i'll take you'll take the uh well go go give it give it a different
00:22:28
bed not then oh yeah you got a different line and you can set it down a different
00:22:30
line set a different line i think ted's a good line because you got to think like
00:22:35
if they offered him seven or four i mean it's gonna that's not a good line good thing eleven
00:22:55
would have been a good one it's a good line okay let me give you 11.5 what do you take
00:23:00
jamal can afford the book against all three of us okay 11.5 takes the over 11.5 free brook sacks
00:23:06
yeah i don't know under can i just tell you why if you look at the last four-year compounding of apple stock
00:23:12
right and so if you think about reasonable number of grants as his level of seniority plus the imputed
00:23:17
compounding plus whatever he would have you should be part of his team somebody said in
00:23:21
this clip because that's the argument is i i do think you end up getting to probably
00:23:26
sure yeah you got to include the information yeah you get to buy it now price at 15 and call it and
00:23:31
they've also also you could make the argument they've rendered him unemployable in the industry so
00:23:36
he needs to foregone mental suffering what about suffering he is going to suffer
00:23:43
he's going to need to be on meds my client is suffering he's in therapy twice a week
00:23:48
he can't get out of bed he's not going to be able to be in functional relationships
00:23:52
and he's too scared to leave the house he should wait on the sub stack because he's going to make so much money on sub
00:23:57
stack it's going to mitigate his damages yeah don't take the sunset wait just wait on the subject
00:24:04
do you guys know what apple's market cap divided by employees is apple is apple's marketing seven million
00:24:11
in employee anyone else wait a second this car is a hundred thousand employees and it's
00:24:16
worth two trillion okay there's 150 000 employees 2.1 trillion so it's 14 million
00:24:22
an employee so the other way to think about it is if apple's like gonna lose one or two good employees over this
00:24:28
um you know they'd happily pay up to get uh to get the guy to be quiet so it's worth one employee to pay 14
00:24:36
million dollars wow no i mean well you're you're not dividing by all the slave labor in china
00:24:42
and i'll recalc i'll recalculate they actually caused zero so that was bad sorry for all the power
00:24:53
it's dark but it's true i mean this is the hypocrisy of apple they've literally got slave labor in
00:24:59
their supply chain not that they wanted in their supply chain how do you know that how do you know
00:25:04
that let's just go through this because like this is a common narrative but has anyone actually like gotten to the
00:25:10
bottom of well that's why i said reported i mean yeah it is it is known again like
00:25:14
i don't know pushing i don't like pushing narratives i tweeted something that well i
00:25:20
retweeted something that came from i think a pretty valid source um that author from the atlantic
00:25:27
who i think is pretty legit also i just think just in terms of his quote if he had taken the word woman out of the
00:25:33
quote most people in the bay area are soft and weak in a zombie apocalypse i don't
00:25:38
think you're recruiting from the bay area but related to this story uh in terms of
00:25:42
chamat's point about you know uh 1000 next performers uh america is uh really doing a bad job
00:25:51
at math and gary tan the venture capitalist retweeted and participated in a tweet thread
00:25:57
about immigrants um who know that standardized test is probably your best shot at getting somewhere
00:26:03
uh your money social status can't take you the rules are well standardized and he tells this story about this
00:26:08
but there was a persuasion article um about us failing math and that they're going to be
00:26:13
in california getting rid of the gifted programs for math because it's unfair to the kids
00:26:20
who are not gifted as a kid who is was not gifted uh and to the three kids on the program who were in
00:26:27
gifted programs or at least two of you were i have no problem with there being a
00:26:31
gifted program but any thoughts on this i think it's shameful yeah it really is i mean like we are
00:26:38
we are really doing our level best to just completely [ __ ] our population why i mean why is
00:26:45
this even how could this even be possible it's like like just as like it's it's kind of like the
00:26:51
equivalent it's the moral equivalent of actually saying you know what we're going to eliminate welfare for the
00:26:56
bottom five percent like our job as a society is to kind of like find the broadest set of solutions for
00:27:06
the most number of people and solve for both extremes so when you're dealing with education
00:27:12
you both need to understand that there are folks that need some kind of structural support look
00:27:17
when i came to canada i had esl right english as a second language you take that so that you can learn the
00:27:22
native language of a country it didn't mean that i was stupid it just meant that i was behind you know
00:27:27
if i had dyslexia or something else i would need some kind of support one of my children had a speech
00:27:32
impediment we had a speech therapist this is what you do but on the other side if you have a kid
00:27:37
who's an incredibly high performer who has the potential to just completely crush
00:27:42
hey like you should be able to give that kid a pathway to achieve and give back so the idea
00:27:47
that you would eliminate anything at the extremes is kind of completely uncompassionate and
00:27:52
stupid just totally [ __ ] stupid well it's in the name of having a more equitable math class
00:27:58
again i hate that word don't use that word that is that is the least this i mean
00:28:05
this goes back to the point i made a few episodes ago that you know you can have
00:28:08
progress or you can have a quality but it's very difficult to have both and you know if you want to try and make
00:28:13
everyone equal and give no one the opportunity to have more or get more than anyone else because of whatever the
00:28:19
circumstance may be whether it's earned no or whether it's no but this is my point like you know
00:28:25
you limit the ability for everyone to to progress as a group because we're now limiting the ability for folks to take
00:28:30
calculus i know equality look i'll use a video game example equality means we all get
00:28:35
to play grand theft auto not that we have a somebody who actually plays for us and gets to the same answer
00:28:41
and just gives you a ticket yeah so so that's that is what equality means is that we all get to play
00:28:50
and we all get a chance versus equity which is leveling everyone equity is leveling everybody and saying
00:28:55
here's your result right by the way but the notion of leveling everyone where no one can be ahead of anyone else
00:29:02
by too far uh obviously limits as a group our ability for the top decile to to increment or the top quartile to
00:29:09
increment i gotta think look let's let's again use our friends because instead of ours but
00:29:15
you know we know a lot of really smart people um who have really really smart kids
00:29:21
we also know people in general that are in tough circumstances who also probably
00:29:26
have really smart kids just purely selfishly for me i want those kids doing the best they
00:29:33
can to figure out what the hell they can invent for us in the future why would you slow those kids down you
00:29:40
know it's kind of like saying you know what like how about a black athlete would you would it be preposterous to
00:29:45
say you know what you don't have a right to go to the nba and make money for your family i'm gonna
00:29:50
slow you down because there's another white kid that's gonna go through four years of college
00:29:54
so you know what you're gonna have to go through four years of college and you're
00:29:56
gonna have to pay for it well actually what i would propose uh is when i go up to dunk
00:30:02
that we just the rim automatically lowers two feet yeah yeah so i can dunk and then when you go for a layout we'll
00:30:08
just raise this six inches it would be more equitable for me that's more equitable yes more accurately let
00:30:13
me let me let me add another layer to this so i i agree with you with you guys that what
00:30:17
we should be thinking about is opportunity we should always be asking what increases opportunity for the most
00:30:22
people and that's how we should measure political programs and we're not doing that here
00:30:26
we are sort of leveling down but i would say it's even more nefarious than that which is i think what's happening is
00:30:32
that the education establishment is completely failing our kids in our schools and what they're
00:30:38
trying to do is destroy the evidence of that failure and and so they're hiding they're hiding the results now this
00:30:45
persuasion piece yes this persuasion piece lays out the statistics which are pretty grim
00:30:51
okay so according to these like global measurements by oecd okay math proficiency in the us
00:30:58
we rank 37 in the world okay and there's only 37 developed nations in the world according to the development so we're
00:31:05
last among developed countries china which is our main global competitor is number one okay and we achieve these
00:31:11
horrible results despite ranking fifth in the world and per people spending so it's not a spending problem okay and
00:31:18
as we know to extend we do have high performing math students in the us a huge majority of them are actually
00:31:24
foreign born and so we're actually kind of cheating our numbers a little bit it's even worse
00:31:29
than it appears now what is the education establishment doing about this how are they hiding the
00:31:34
failure well when school comes back in the fall they're planning to eliminate accelerated math
00:31:39
okay that means that there's no more algebra for eighth graders who are ready to take it on
00:31:43
there's no more calculus for high schoolers who want to you know do like the ap classes and get
00:31:49
a jump on stem you know for college the entire idea of gifted students is now under attack
00:31:55
like we talked about in the name of equity it's become a catch-all for every bad idea
00:32:00
and the university of california system has now abandoned the s.a.t and act so they temporarily got rid of those
00:32:07
requirements during the pandemic but now they've used the crisis crisis and now they say they're not bringing
00:32:14
back the requirements until at least 2025 and you can bet it's never going to return at all and so here's the thing
00:32:21
they're trying to get rid of measuring how bad we are at math so we won't have to think about it
00:32:26
they just want to give everyone a gold star and a pat on the back and just say how you know what this reminds me of
00:32:31
saks is when you threw away the um the uh digital scale i got you right i'm not i'm not fat because i'm
00:32:40
not measuring it great perfect oh my god it's like we really it's it's the movie idiocracy
00:32:50
it's literally we are doing the movie idiot have you guys seen it why don't we just uh why don't we just
00:32:55
eliminate all admissions programs at every university and just have one global admissions board where every
00:33:01
campus is the same what is the difference between mit um and stanford and caltech and the
00:33:07
university of arkansas in my opinion there shouldn't be it's more equitable to just have somebody go
00:33:12
close to home because you can save money you know carbon emissions are lower right you can just take the bus to the
00:33:18
local competition you're gonna have one centralized place teach you why have anybody give a basic course i mean if i
00:33:24
said this you you'd think that i was a crazy person except that's basically what we're now
00:33:28
telling all of our high schools i'm also getting rid of michelin stars and i'd like yelp to take off their
00:33:32
review system because it's not equitable like we should not have michelin stars anymore every show
00:33:38
just restaurant's the same every restaurant you get three quarters of a star we should not the health department
00:33:43
should not give ranks of letters and they should not be forced to post it because that's inequitable
00:33:48
absolutely you know yeah also you can game you can game the health test you could
00:33:52
literally just follow let me just ask the um the counterpoint question which is uh uh standardized testing for example
00:34:02
benefits people that can afford tutors and special you know classes to get ahead and
00:34:07
provide more tutors yeah therefore well therefore it's higher income people that can always
00:34:12
well the point is they can always layer on additional tutoring they can always layer on additional classes and there
00:34:16
therefore number of math is a finite score freedberg you can only get 800 on the
00:34:21
math i'll i'll be somewhat um flip-floppy here i don't believe in standardized tests that much i never
00:34:29
did well particularly in standardized tests i do think that they can be gamed but that's different from what we're
00:34:34
talking about what we're saying is if kids show aptitude we are explicitly choosing to not give them a chance to
00:34:41
develop at their potential and the problem is we do this in other areas we do it in athletics
00:34:48
we do it in music we do it in the arts but we're not going to do it in stem that's what we're choosing to do that is
00:34:55
what's crazy so choose to get rid of the sat or act whatever you want i don't care
00:35:01
but if you are the lebron james of physics jesus christ like let that kid become the lebron
00:35:07
james officials tell you like i i am i got into uc berkeley because i had great standardized test scores
00:35:12
because i had an aptitude what was your s.a.t freiburg let's do this um i got a uh let's do
00:35:20
this an 800 math and i think it was a 720 verbal okay so you got a 15 20 out of 1600 at
00:35:26
the time i got 11. i uh 750 math um 720 verbal 14 are you writing this down this is pretty the inflation there was a
00:35:45
big uh i was a i was 15 10 on the sct oh we were okay so i woke up 400 points 500 points
00:35:53
behind each of you in canada it was just kind of like we didn't even write it but i went and i
00:35:57
wrote it just for shits and giggles and i didn't do well you just said you weren't good at standardized tests so
00:36:02
what are you talking about you're in the top three percent yeah yeah i know but generally like i wasn't a good test
00:36:08
taker i was in probation and college academic yeah but look the the reason why these tests
00:36:13
got invented was actually to prevent discrimination um i think it was back in like the 50s
00:36:18
right um yeah i think it was like at that time it was jews being kept out of the ivy league and
00:36:23
one of the ways that they corrected for that was they made everyone take the same test
00:36:26
and so you could see the scores and it would shine some light on you know making sure that people
00:36:31
didn't just get in because they were legacies that they got in because um you know they had their good good
00:36:37
scores and there's been decades of work since then to try and eliminate bias in the test
00:36:43
and so the the the claims of bias now and the tests really aren't supported now right to freeburg's point
00:36:50
obviously that if you take some rich kid who lives in the suburbs who gets a 1400 and you
00:36:56
compare that to a kid in the inner city who doesn't have who grew up poor doesn't have the
00:37:02
advantages and that kid gets to thirteen hundred well which score is better probably the thirteen hundred and so you
00:37:08
can take that into account in my view in the admissions process but eliminating the scores all together
00:37:14
why would you want to have less information to make a decision there's no reason not to get rid of
00:37:19
these i would just think more holistically about how you accept students and i mean is it
00:37:23
more competition and having better teachers what we should be focusing on here as opposed to
00:37:29
even standardized testing or god forbid canceling programs let's just invest in more competition for schools well so in
00:37:36
canada we had this thing where when i was graduating we had specific different kinds of
00:37:41
math contests and computer science contests and other things that you could write the putnam
00:37:46
etc and uh those things were actually really instructive because they were purely
00:37:52
verticalized things that could test your aptitude and the school that i went to university
00:37:56
of waterloo would look at a lot of those things and adjust for it because my grades were
00:38:00
decent but my some of those one this one specific math test i took was pretty good i remember
00:38:06
and then they would adjust it exactly as david said to what is this kid's background and his circumstances and
00:38:12
they called it a french factor they would just adjust my marks and that's how i got into waterloo
00:38:16
and i didn't think i was going to so there's all kinds of ways where you can be smart about it but again
00:38:22
we're talking about guys don't lose sight of what you're saying we are actually going to cut all these kids off
00:38:27
at the knees starting in grade 8. so forget about all of this stuff by the time that these kids graduate they're
00:38:32
going to be i honestly they're going to be like really dumb the problem ultimately isn't just
00:38:37
measurement it's the denial of opportunity to learn it's about it's about getting rid of the
00:38:42
learning in the classes that's the biggest problem you have to move to a state with a gifted program
00:38:47
now if your kid is really smart out of public education um which doesn't help anybody i mean
00:38:53
literally schools don't have to t we put it n we've now designed a system to summarize
00:38:58
schools don't have to compete for students teachers don't have to compete for jobs
00:39:03
or for their employment and now we're saying students don't have to compete so if you remove competition from the
00:39:09
human condition you're just not going to have any performance there's going to be no
00:39:14
progress and as a species we need progress we need to solve global warming we need
00:39:19
to solve a lot of issues and don't we want to live longer and better lives like where is the
00:39:25
optimistic nature of the human species competition is at the core of excellence and to just take it out of everything
00:39:35
the whole staff that's the smartest thing you've ever said way smarter than 11 20 sat score
00:39:40
thank you thank you he's only 11 20. how clean is it that we're still talking about our s.a.t score it's like
00:39:47
30 years hundred was the average so in brooklyn when you're 320 points above average david
00:39:52
it's a bfd what's lame is the four of us all remembered down to the number what our score is
00:39:58
that's what's lame i think i was 11 20 11 50. i gotta i gotta look it up um all right uh do we wanna go to the
00:40:05
crypto meltdown or talk about inflation or do we should we dovetail those together or just wanna go straight to
00:40:09
ufos well bri biden just uh they they just a press release just hit the wire and they
00:40:14
just cut the infrastructure bill from 2.3 trillion to 1.7 trillion so we're doing our job here at the
00:40:21
podcast and uh i i had heard from somebody that there just is not the broad-based
00:40:27
support um for uh the capital gains tax so that's not going to happen um and it looks like the corporate tax
00:40:36
will probably go to 25 not even up to 28 and interestingly i didn't realize this but
00:40:43
one of the biggest features of the bill that has the most popularity is that they're closing this loophole around ip
00:40:48
that sits outside the united states and that more than the corporate taxes will raise almost a trillion dollars of
00:40:55
revenue i agree with that one why should you put your why is apple i mean you want to talk about hypocrisy putting
00:40:59
their ip in ireland so they don't pay taxes google does the same it was everybody's doing that why does
00:41:04
that exist it's so un-american well it's a subsidiary that has different taxation on it and you know to
00:41:11
kind of that capital and that uh and that earnings sits outside the u.s that ip was made in
00:41:18
california it was not made in dublin no offense to you know my home country i remember
00:41:24
facebook we did that we did this exact thing we signed over all the ip and then the irs sued facebook and i
00:41:30
remember like i was called either to i was subpoenaed and we went through like a whole multi-year trial it may
00:41:36
still be going on and it was around this issue which was the irs said hey facebook how come you you know you
00:41:42
ported this over there and i think facebook's answer was yeah we paid the tax and i think they did
00:41:47
they don't think they did anything wrong because the laws allowed it but it effectively helped shield then
00:41:52
tens of billions of dollars of future taxes i i mean i remember reading about this
00:41:56
and i'm like how does this pass the sniff test well it's where the revenue is recognized recognize jcal so
00:42:02
you basically can produce the ip here and then transfer it to your subsidiary when you transfer to your
00:42:07
subsidiary you can recognize the earnings in that subsidiary and that subsidiary pays taxes in its local
00:42:13
jurisdiction the i think the issue facebook had was that they transferred the ip
00:42:19
and they undervalued what the future value would be from that ip transfer and that's why the irs sued them
00:42:24
is this accounting snafu in terms of like what did you value it out at the moment you transferred it
00:42:29
here's another idea what does why don't they look at as part of this ip licensing
00:42:34
where does the consumption of that ip occur and where do the employees who maintain
00:42:39
that ip live jkl it's a very smart idea the problem is that's the slippery slope that then
00:42:44
gets to local taxation you know the thing is we have all these global tax treaties where these large
00:42:49
corporate entities can basically play this game and they're not subject to local tax
00:42:54
but that's the thing that's going to really start the undoing of the big monopolies because if you
00:42:59
start to abandon these global tax treaties and you're starting to see it france is trying to do some stuff the uk
00:43:06
is trying to do some stuff states individually in the united states are trying to sue these companies or tax
00:43:12
them more that's the that's the first way to chip away at these monopolies is to basically
00:43:16
say [ __ ] your global tax treaty you need to pay x amount of dollars to be here and it already exists because of
00:43:22
these you know uh real estate sorry the retail tax nexuses and uh how e-commerce companies have to
00:43:29
pay local tax in the areas um but once it sort of touches a whole bunch of other
00:43:34
industries um and countries uh i think that you're gonna have that that's why i think yellen
00:43:40
janet yellen yesterday said that you know she's in support of trying to have a global minimum tax of
00:43:45
12 basically trying to get to the end state and tell every country let's all circle the wagons and agree that
00:43:51
we'll all just charge everybody 12 and then we won't go all our separate ways the problem is that if you have a
00:43:56
lot of usage in a country you know that country doesn't care what the taxation is in
00:44:01
zimbabwe right or canada they're like if i'm the uk or france i'm like i look at
00:44:06
the top 20 apps in my country and i'm like wait a minute these guys would be paying
00:44:09
me 50 billion dollars a year in tax it's hard to get away from the incentive to to not want to tax these companies
00:44:15
right now sacks any thoughts yeah i don't have a huge thought on the ip issue um it seems like i know the
00:44:23
the republican proposal on the infrastructure was six to eight hundred billion um biden's proposal initially was 2.3
00:44:30
chmath is right now they're down to 1.7 i think that the markets have been choking on the size of all of this tax
00:44:36
and spend and the there's been all these reports of inflation spiking and so the growth stocks have
00:44:44
just been hammered because we're all expecting big interest rate increases to control this future inflation so um
00:44:52
buying has been horrible for growth stocks so far and it really i guess that what it shows
00:44:57
is that you know what are growth stocks growth stocks are future investment and it shows the way that the government
00:45:02
can crowd out when you have excess government spending i guess you can call it investment if you want but
00:45:08
when you have excess government spending it starts to crowd out private investment because it raises
00:45:15
interest rates and that you know decreases the the value of gross stocks and there's less
00:45:20
money that flows into that yeah it does seem like the market reaction to the infrastructure bill and to inflation
00:45:30
has made biden reconsider his approach and maybe he just came out too hot is that i don't know i don't think biden's
00:45:37
reconsidering i think it's people like joe manchin um remember it's a 50 foreigner mark
00:45:42
warner christian cinema the the moderate there's a three or four moderate democrats in the
00:45:46
senate who i think are receiving the message your mouth put it really well the last pod
00:45:51
that the markets are sending a message to washington i think some of those centrist democrats
00:45:56
read the message i don't think biden's aware of and i don't know what he's aware of he doesn't seem to aware of
00:46:01
anything to me but i think the moderate democrats are getting the message and they're telling
00:46:05
they're telling the white house the package is too big and they they're um and i think that's why it's coming up
00:46:10
the other thing that i think people um may be getting their heads around here's what's changed since last week
00:46:15
there's a growing body if i had to say like you know the beautiful thing about the
00:46:19
the markets is that it is an extremely elegant voting mechanism in the short term right
00:46:24
i mean buffett says it's it's a voting machine in the short term and a weighing machine in the long term
00:46:29
but if you look at sentiment and how things are voted on in the public markets in real time it's
00:46:35
incredibly illustrative so there's a body of people now that are voting a very different scenario than
00:46:42
inflation what they're voting for now is this idea that by the fall a lot of this short-term pent-up demand
00:46:49
will have worked its way through the system and instead we'll be back to this realization that we've had for the last
00:46:55
20 years which is hey wait a minute people don't actually want to buy more of these physical goods they're going to
00:47:00
go back to consuming the way they did before it's going to reflexively push towards
00:47:04
technology companies again and we're going to have this rebirth of growth and you would say well how would you
00:47:10
know that that vote is likely and this one incredible thing happened this last week which i just want to
00:47:15
throw out here um one thing that i look at is this thing called 10-year break-evens which
00:47:20
is basically a thing that the federal reserve of st louis publishes and what it basically shows is like what
00:47:27
people think collectively trillions of dollars what the 10-year break-even interest
00:47:31
rate's going to be and it peaked last week at 2.54 and it's fallen 13 uh basis points uh
00:47:39
just in the last week down to 241 and i don't know whether it's sustained or whatever but there is a
00:47:44
growing idea that the worst may be behind us and if you layer on top of this now
00:47:50
biden pulling back right on stimulus because he can't get it done pulling back on cap gains pulling back
00:47:59
on corporate taxation and a more measured policy of investment we we could all be back so we're
00:48:07
basically taking the medicine and getting back to where we were but we still have massive asset
00:48:13
inflation we're seeing in houses cars and other things well we may have just pulled
00:48:17
forward demand meaning you know people are like okay i'm flush with money the savings rate in the
00:48:21
united states has been you know going at an incredible clip people may pull forward all that
00:48:26
spending and say i was going to buy a car 18 months from now or i was going to buy
00:48:30
a house two years from now [ __ ] it i'm going to do it now because prices are going up too fast i don't
00:48:35
want to miss out but then they're out of the market now for the next many number of years and
00:48:40
this is what i'm saying where you see this short-term spike of demand and then things get back to normal if that's what
00:48:46
we see good times are back in growth stocks all in podcast sentiment levels go high
00:48:55
again i've literally i did like two or three early stage deals recently and i had members of my syndicate say
00:49:01
like how does this valuation make sense and i said to them you know it actually doesn't make sense
00:49:06
um if you're looking at it with the traditional metrics but all valuations are higher at all stages
00:49:12
so i'm going to selectively you know overpay compared to what we were paying a year or two ago
00:49:19
you know if i really love a company but i will sit out a lot of i'm sitting at a
00:49:23
lot of rounds right now that i just can't get my head around the valuation so hopefully some well
00:49:28
there's always a trickle down there's always a trickle down from gross stocks in the public markets to venture right
00:49:34
because the the last private investors like the big funds who do the super late stage stuff
00:49:40
they're just doing an arbitrage on what they pay versus what the company's going
00:49:43
to list for publicly so when they see those valuations go down they adjust and then it works its way all the way
00:49:49
down the stack so you know growth stocks have just been hammered and especially all the recent
00:49:54
listings the ipos and spax and everything and and that's going to trickle its way down i think
00:50:00
to venture i think we have the yeah and i think we have the lead indicator on that as clubhouse right which will be
00:50:06
the canary in the coal mine i don't know how you guys recognize explain explain what's going on with
00:50:11
clubhouse just for those of us explain what it is okay so clubhouse is a casual audio space you go into a room
00:50:17
and you're immediately taken to a live conversation with people speaking on stage and an
00:50:22
audience audience members can be promoted to the stage and start talking so wait wait hold on it's in an app and
00:50:28
it's all audio so there's an app audio there's an app you go in and it's all audio yes so it's like amateur night
00:50:33
at a strip club but for words uh or more comedy club or whatever you just bring pupil on stage
00:50:38
yeah it's kind of like a champagne room but a little different um so anyway apple 2000 signatures from apple to
00:50:50
remove all in from the podcast we just lost three ranks in the apple podcasting app
00:50:56
so what's very interesting about this app is that it had a massive number of downloads
00:51:02
during the pandemic because people were home and people were not doing anything at night because they were sheltering in
00:51:07
place and um they had in you know 2 million downloads in january 9.5 million in february of this year and
00:51:14
then came crashing down 2.7 million in march and 922 in april but at the same time their
00:51:22
valuation over 18 months went from 100 million in their seed when they had like three or
00:51:27
four thousand users to a billion to four billion in the last round of financing for a company with zero revenue and
00:51:35
let's call it a couple of million people using the app and what's really interesting is the
00:51:40
same venture firm led all three rounds a la sequoia's investment in whatsapp where
00:51:44
they did all the private funding so you have no outside capital marketing this valuation a four
00:51:50
billion dollar evaluation four billion dollars well they got a they got an acquisition offer from twitter for four
00:51:55
billion and they they turned was that ever confirmed i've heard it was real so so but so basically the reason why
00:52:03
the 4 billion private round happened was so they would keep going as an independent company they could basically
00:52:08
take some chips off the table through secondary and kind of go for the bigger outcome
00:52:12
but yeah they could have just sold to twitter for 4 billion so they may end up regretting that but
00:52:18
like is this really a function of a broader um inflation evaluation inflation or is this just a function of
00:52:25
there was a company that was a social network with hyper growth and then it turns out that the product
00:52:30
had no stickiness and the hyper growth went away the souffle collapsed the souffle
00:52:34
collapsed can i can i can i just point out like and and forgive me if any any of you guys are investors in this
00:52:40
company or anyone that's listening and cares but like if this thing came out before
00:52:45
youtube people would say you know this is interesting but it needs an asynchronous
00:52:50
killer it needs a thing where you can like record a conversation post it online and
00:52:54
people can come and watch it listen to it when they want it was always so crazy to me that you
00:52:58
had to be logged into the app to listen to what was going on and if you didn't you missed the
00:53:02
conversation and there was no way to like go watch the recording of the conversation like am i crazy to think
00:53:07
that this was just like silly i think you nailed it that they don't have async in there and
00:53:12
actually i've got a little bit of disclosure to make here what what the beat got wet but it's
00:53:20
[ __ ] special breaking news story okay so i think i understand what clubhouse did
00:53:28
wrong async is a huge part of it but rather than tell you exactly i'm going to show you
00:53:32
because i've been incubating a new what what what that we're we're on test flight
00:53:40
right now and you guys after this pod i can i can demo it for you and if you guys if you guys want to invest
00:53:46
i'm going to close around uh this week before it's getting wet and so if you guys want to what's your
00:53:51
evaluation what's the value yeah what's our insider all in what's the best eval yeah what's
00:53:55
the best event i'll talk to you guys about it offline how much how much money do you want to
00:53:59
raise we're raising 10 million bucks and we already have commitments and but i'm
00:54:03
creating room for you guys yeah yeah so 500k each okay sounds like 500k each where is it let's talk about it offline
00:54:11
but um but the apps on test flight i think we'll be ready to launch in a few weeks
00:54:14
can i can i say what's the point wait what's it called can you see that yeah no i'll say it it's called call in
00:54:21
colin colin i thought it was i thought it was going to be called club mouse does this have a podcast after all like
00:54:32
are we going to do the podcast on it we absolutely could do the podcast on it and it would be awesome
00:54:36
nick would be out of a job so i don't think he would like it i wouldn't have the quality level but i think it's good
00:54:40
for call-ins if we wanted to do a call-in show so it would be good for that yes it'd be great it'd be great to
00:54:44
do exactly and that's why it's called call-in is because the ability for you to take callers
00:54:49
is obviously a huge feature but also like we could host after parties for our fans to like you
00:54:56
know chop up the latest episode and talk about it yeah these fans are getting crazy do you guys
00:55:00
see the all in stats twitter handle i don't know the twitter handle off the top of my head but
00:55:05
somebody's these kids are doing um uh they're using machine learning or something to know
00:55:13
what percentage of time we each speak on the pod and how many monologues and they're
00:55:17
doing all these statistics it's crazy that's really cool um i was gonna say uh in defense of clubhouse for a second i
00:55:23
don't i don't know the app per se but i think like why andreessen did all of that
00:55:28
in my opinion is because they're pressing a hot hand which makes a ton of sense from their perspective it's like
00:55:34
you know i think that they're going for the kill shot because i think they are basically
00:55:38
set up they're basically set up to become sequoia if if they really i mean i think if you
00:55:43
think about like which two firms are really crushing on all cylinders right now obviously sequoia has always been the
00:55:50
perennial number one but if you think about the the heater that andreessen it's on it's incredible
00:55:55
and so from their perspective the four billion dollar valuation is less important than
00:55:59
what is their real capital at risk and that's probably 100 or 150 million which in the grand scheme of having 40 or 50
00:56:06
billion dollars of aum if you consider the value of all their public positions as well that's a really
00:56:11
reasonable risk to take so i think if you're sure in that way it's kind of like they're taking a shot
00:56:16
to try to just you know go if it does become worth 10 billion or 50 billion also if it only gets sold for 500
00:56:23
million they get their money out first so what does it matter what does it matter
00:56:26
they're going for the 100 billion outcome i mean they've seen that instagram sold too soon
00:56:31
they saw that snap turned down a three billion dollar offer from facebook and now it's worth 80 billion
00:56:35
so they're going for the 100 billion dollar youtube 1.6 billion yeah and now it's worth hundreds of billions so
00:56:40
they're hoping it's going to be like that um but chamath is right look if they had taken
00:56:45
what say 20 of a 4 billion outcome 800 million that doesn't even pay back their fund
00:56:51
right but if it ends up being 100 billion outcome they make 20 billion now it's like a coin base for them what
00:56:57
do you think they gave to the founders well to keep them in the game because four billion if they owned 80
00:57:05
yeah they took off they took chips off the table but here's the thing all those decisions were made
00:57:09
before the recent collapse in engagement at clubhouse i'm not sure anybody would be paying 4 billion for it
00:57:16
now given everything that's gone wrong but you know who knows it's still pretty early just for people
00:57:21
who are curious there is a twitter handle all in underscore stats and um yeah it's all in stats.com i
00:57:29
don't know we're not affiliated with these maniacs but um we we love the stands and we're going to
00:57:35
do something in person in september congratulations to the stands for losing their minds i think
00:57:39
it's a pretty good uh way for them to capture a bunch of uh attention on the twitter
00:57:45
all right um crypto is getting absolutely hammered uh and i it's the chinese have once again
00:57:53
said that uh they're basically saber rattling about cryptocurrency they're obviously
00:57:57
going to do their own um uh jason i think i think you have to talk about china in a
00:58:03
in a slightly broader lens than just what's happening in crypto because like this is the same week where
00:58:08
they basically they forced you know zhang yaming to resign from bike dance i mean you know last
00:58:14
week last week it was or last month it was the ceo of pinto duo and just guys mia they're going for the
00:58:20
jugular i mean it's like why are they taking out all their top ceos this would be like putting elon and
00:58:26
jeff bezos on the bench is that they just don't want any heroes i don't know i mean i i guess maybe the
00:58:32
speculative part in me would say they're showing them who's really in charge of these companies
00:58:39
i mean it would be crazy to your point if the government of the united states forced sundar pachai and tim cook and
00:58:45
mark zuckerberg and elon musk to resign it's like hey sorry i'm sorry you need to leave right now and
00:58:52
put somebody else in and do you have to debate their badges yeah we just we just relentlessly
00:58:57
criticize them right but but yeah yeah we just demonize them we just try to cancel them but look but
00:59:03
they deserve that level of scrutiny because the amount of power they have but but yeah that we don't we don't
00:59:08
put them in jail or house arrest or drive them out of their companies and that is a big advantage for the us
00:59:13
economy the treasury department here in the united states is doing a little saber rattling
00:59:18
they want to know anytime there is a 10 000 transaction in any kind of digital token
00:59:24
and uh they're talking about a cbdc to do their own cryptocurrency so they're putting out a white paper for
00:59:30
feedback this summer um and uh we are now seeing a pullback on bitcoin from you know mid 60s to uh you know now into
00:59:40
the 36 37 000 per bitcoin do you think this is the end of the beginning beginning of the
00:59:47
end it's the beginning of the beginning david rubinstein was on cnbc today and david rubinstein for those you
00:59:55
guys don't know is um was a co-founder of carlyle group you know more blue chip and blue-blooded you cannot get and very
01:00:03
connected in washington and you know he said it best where he said you know effectively
01:00:08
people want this and the government will have no choice except to support it because you can't take something like
01:00:16
this with this much institutional and retail demand away so we have to go to the place where now
01:00:22
crypto needs to be like everything else and maybe the crypto stands get upset with that because they don't like it
01:00:27
that you know a bunch of their parents are all of a sudden going to be buying tokens and
01:00:31
stuff but they got to get over it um then this stuff should be you know transacted in the same way you transact
01:00:36
anything else you buy it you sell it you get a tax return you pay your taxes and you move
01:00:41
on this reminds me of the transition that we all went through with i don't know if
01:00:45
you remember kazaa and napster and bittorrent like everybody all the we a lot of our
01:00:52
contemporaries in their 30s you know whatever 10 20 years ago were like you can't stop
01:00:56
it you can't stop it and it got stopped you know like you made it illegal and you prosecuted people
01:01:03
and then you came up with solutions that were regulated like spotify or you know netflix and you gave the
01:01:09
consumers what they wanted so david do you think this is a similar path right now that we're going through
01:01:15
which is the crypto zealots and the and the and the stands are gonna basically have to get used to as chemat
01:01:22
saying their parents buying it and crypto not being this underground thing but being regulated in a major way in
01:01:28
the united states and is that a good or bad thing i i think the thing that that's
01:01:31
happening quietly behind the scenes is that major wall street players institutions
01:01:36
endowments and so forth over the past year have decided that bitcoin and crypto is a legitimate asset class and they've
01:01:43
been allocating to it huge huge pools of capital balance sheet capital have been allocating into it
01:01:50
i don't think that's gonna change this is probably a pretty good buying opportunity we've seen these
01:01:55
crashes in bitcoin many many times over the years it plummets down and then it goes back
01:02:00
up and it eventually goes back up and reaches a new peak so this is probably a pretty good entry
01:02:05
point for the next rally we don't know when that's going to be but the whole point of bitcoin is that it's
01:02:10
censorship resistant and china can do its best to try and stamp it out but i don't think they'll
01:02:16
be successful at that you don't you're so wrong about that that is the most naive take worst take
01:02:22
you've ever had how's china going to stop bitcoin uh how do they stop vpns they put people in
01:02:26
jail how do they stop religion they put people in jail they may make it incredibly hard for
01:02:31
chinese citizens to get a hold of bitcoin i agree with that but they're not going to be able to stop
01:02:35
bitcoin they're not going to stop bitcoin in the west but they will stop it in china 100
01:02:41
full stop and you know how many servers are in china i mean go talk to the people who were in
01:02:47
tiananmen square about the miners will have to move out the miners miners are done and then
01:02:51
if it'll be an underground thing it'll be like having a vpn which is five years in jail for selling
01:02:56
vpns what do you think about the irs requirement that you have to report any bitcoin transaction over ten thousand
01:03:02
dollars do you think that that and americans can be prosecuted for not reporting
01:03:07
right so i i don't know i don't know fine okay so what do it so yes get over it but i do think
01:03:14
you'll get rid of 20 this is the silk road fallacy that you know that the only legitimate use for
01:03:22
crypto or i said 20 percent i didn't say okay fine but so maybe that makes it that small fraction
01:03:28
of illegitimate or illicit use cases no sex i think the point is um that they're trying to chase down
01:03:35
it's not about illegal use cases it's about not reporting a taxable gain on your bitcoin
01:03:39
before you use that money to buy something so sure of course it's about tax evasion
01:03:44
but look but that's not that's not going to stop bitcoin usage um you know smart people who've been
01:03:51
trading bitcoin been paying taxes on it for years that's not i don't think that's really
01:03:54
an issue if you were in china and you created your wealth in china or many many other countries all over
01:03:59
the world and there were currency restrictions and controls and the government was asserting more
01:04:03
and more power and we're putting business leaders under house arrest and and seeking to
01:04:09
put them under their thumb you'd be trying to convert as much of your net worth into bitcoin as possible
01:04:14
so that all you have to do is if you ever had to flee the country you wouldn't have to have dollars in
01:04:20
your suitcase or gold bricks or diamonds you'd simply have to have a password in
01:04:24
your brain that you could access at any computer terminal when you got out of the country
01:04:29
and so that i think that sort of digital gold is a phenomenal use case of bitcoin and
01:04:35
the more oppressive all these countries become the more they increase the value of that use case
01:04:41
what do you think is the black swan event in crypto and bitcoin in particular taxation in the united states
01:04:50
traditional taxation like you do on cigarettes that would be for me the united states putting a tax on it
01:04:55
that makes it less competitive with our our national coming cryptocurrency the cbdc that the
01:05:02
united states will launch in the next two or three years they're going to say if you want to use
01:05:06
any of these other currencies there's a 10 tax on them we want you using ours the
01:05:11
legitimate one there's there's a very negative black swan that obviously has never occurred
01:05:17
um but if anyone ever manages to counterfeit a bitcoin yeah or this is the double spend problem
01:05:22
right if you could ever if you could ever double spend or figure out a way to create bitcoins
01:05:27
um or counterfeit them whatever that weren't in the blockchain if the number of bitcoins
01:05:31
ever grew beyond the 21 million that's just built into the way that the whole thing works if
01:05:36
that ever happened bitcoin is instantly worthless that would be the black swan on the
01:05:41
negative side i think the black swan if it didn't happen in the first eleven years what do you think the likelihood
01:05:46
of a percentage basis that it happens in the 20th exactly it's too expensive now and
01:05:51
it's too it's too visible like the way that it would have happened it would have
01:05:54
happened in the first two or three years or the argument could be made the opposite that now it's so valuable that
01:05:59
it's worth investing to figure out a bigger target yeah yeah and and it's and and rather than have it be about a
01:06:04
diminishing probability it could be an increasing probability over time which is that the pathways to get there
01:06:10
start to get resolved whereas in the past you didn't have enough time to resolve those pathways
01:06:16
speaking highly theoretical here but like certainly it doesn't take into account that it's open source and that
01:06:21
everybody can see it so you would think that everybody would discover the vulnerability at the same
01:06:26
time right in an open source project well no i think the i think the issue practically speaking in this would be
01:06:31
that you would see those resources getting organized meaning you'd see silicon being bought in volume
01:06:37
by some centralized player and then you'd have to see water and power come together as well
01:06:43
and this is where i think it's just not realistic where today that i think the horse has left the barn
01:06:48
because if you try to basically capture enough hash rate to kind of like overpower this network
01:06:54
it's it's it's like the scene in austin powers where he's screaming in front of a a
01:06:59
steamroller but the steamroller is moving at like one foot a minute right you see it coming it's just like
01:07:05
you just see it coming well would you have a black swan freeberg you asked the loaded question so
01:07:09
do you have one i think about it a lot i don't really i mean it's a black swan it's
01:07:13
because it's a black swan so you don't really see it coming but like you know the the thing about bitcoin
01:07:22
which has always given me pause is the fact that the only way it works is if everyone believes that more people
01:07:31
are going to believe in it tomorrow than believe in it today well that's the only way it appreciates
01:07:37
yeah but the for a variety of reasons it's also the only way that it works because
01:07:43
um if it starts to depreciate it becomes almost like this unwinding circumstance and there are moments where
01:07:49
it unwinds but then people kind of say well you know what more people are going to get on this there's the chinese
01:07:52
argument there's the argentinian argument there's all the reasons why people will
01:07:56
try and store wealth in this system and that becomes a rationale for continuing to bet on it and
01:08:02
my observation is so many people that are active in bitcoin compare bitcoin to the price of the
01:08:08
dollar which to me seems like it doesn't make sense relative to the intention of bitcoin
01:08:14
which is to not be part of the monetary system that uses the dollar as kind of the de facto
01:08:19
you know system of value and so why have the comparison to the dollar as the objective for bitcoin
01:08:27
why is the objective not transactions use cases number of people that are active on the
01:08:32
network et cetera et cetera and nobody buying it is buying it as a subsidiary they're buying it as a lottery ticket so
01:08:39
yeah that's that that's right and so then it becomes this rationale that it's like it's an investment that you put
01:08:43
money in in the form of dollars or your local currency with the intention that you
01:08:48
will be able to get more of your local currency out at some point in the future and the only way that works is if you
01:08:53
expect someone else will buy it from you at a higher price in the future therefore it's all about propagating the
01:08:58
uh you know the marketing around the bitcoin whereas if your objective was really
01:09:02
about making this become a replacement currency system or replacement monetary system you would ultimately care less
01:09:09
about you know what's the dollar value per coin and you would care more about how
01:09:12
many people are using it you know how active let me build on that question so saks or chamoth if the cbdc
01:09:21
and americans currency you know starts to move towards a bitcoin blockchain-like experience what would
01:09:28
america start to look like if 10 or 20 of your dollars instead of being held in a bank we're on a
01:09:34
blockchain with an american a government a government-backed blockchain doesn't accomplish anything it's still
01:09:41
people are it's centralized and not only is it centralized but also it's still prone to debasement right
01:09:48
yeah and so look human beings have used everything from gold coins to seashells as money we can
01:09:55
make anything money that's easy to transact if we all agree on it that's the sense in which bitcoin
01:10:00
is the bubble that becomes true if everyone believes in it that provided provided the number of bitcoins today at
01:10:05
21 million and that the technology enforces the scarcity the problem we have with the us dollar is
01:10:11
the government can just print as many of them as they want yeah you change the denominator problem
01:10:15
yeah and so i think there's a positive black swan as well for positive for bitcoin which is stanley druckenmiller
01:10:22
thinks that the next 15 years the u.s dollar will no longer be the world's reserve currency well what's
01:10:27
going to replace it the positive black swan would be that bitcoin becomes if not the a world reserve currency
01:10:35
an unofficial world reserve currency why because people trust it they trust the decentralization
01:10:42
more than they trust any government and that would that would be absolutely is that in is the united states and
01:10:48
china are they going to let bitcoin become the world's reserve currency well it's not a choice that they have
01:10:56
you sure so yeah there's nothing they can do but what about the law and guns in jail
01:11:02
and tax i don't i don't know what that means there's there's nothing that they could
01:11:06
there there was nothing that they could do to stop it before there's nothing that they can do to stop it now
01:11:11
well you can't get the new york times in china and you can't practice religion there so they have a pretty easy system
01:11:15
they put you in jail they want to stop bitcoin they could just put you in jail how by finding out that you have bitcoin
01:11:22
and just well because they have a hundred percent uh view into the internet there they
01:11:28
have how on because they have routers that's how they capture all the uyghurs is they
01:11:32
know their location because they have mobile phones and when they use signal or any other encrypted technology
01:11:37
they catch them no i don't i don't think that's how it works but that's how they catch all the dissidents
01:11:42
there as they they have them and they also have apple's entire data center is controlled by the chinese
01:11:48
government there's no ledger somewhere that says this specific wallet address equals david sacks and there's not going
01:11:54
to be one anytime soon and so you'll have these centralized wallet authorities that actually
01:12:00
you know have a lot of account information but the reality is the sophisticated actors you know
01:12:06
use tumblers they they washed sort of like their their paths in a way where it's very
01:12:11
difficult to figure out who these people are now if you if you don't if you use a site
01:12:15
that doesn't have kyc that's always going to be the case and you know people with huge amounts of
01:12:20
bitcoin are sophisticated enough to know how to stay anonymous if they want to for everybody else who
01:12:26
doesn't care because for them it's sort of an investment asset class and an in you know a hedge then they're not going
01:12:33
to care either and the point is when enough people own it governments aren't in a position the
01:12:38
track record of them just waking up one day and pulling the plug on anything is zero
01:12:42
that's not how people do things you have to have like centralized policy and support
01:12:47
and i don't see it one way or the other of all the things that china and the united states will face over the next 30
01:12:52
or 40 years this is like 50th on the list hmm saks what do you think any closing
01:12:59
thoughts i mean i think we've said it so yeah i mean look i think i think if you're going to stay in a place like the
01:13:06
united states you need to comply with tax law you're absolutely going to report your bitcoin holdings if it's
01:13:10
required but if the reason you're buying bitcoin is because you're fleeing a country or you're worried
01:13:15
about fleeing a country you're obviously not going to report it and that's the that's the advantage of
01:13:20
it is that it's a portable money supply that again you can just um you don't have to carry anything with
01:13:27
you you just put a password in your brain wallet tell me about ufos before we leave i
01:13:32
mean can you believe this thing this is the craziest thing i i so there was a yeah there's a 60
01:13:37
minutes episode that just happened uh deputy assistant uh secretary of defense for intelligent literally said
01:13:43
the crafts we're seeing are and then in quotes far beyond anything that we're capable of there's
01:13:48
nothing we could build that would be strong enough to endure the amount of force and acceleration
01:13:53
imagine a technology that can do 700 g-forces fly 13 miles per hour evade radar and has every no obvious
01:14:00
signs of propulsion and yet can clearly defy the effects of earth's gravity that's
01:14:04
precisely what we're seeing from the director of advanced aerospace threat identification program i mean is
01:14:09
this real like how is what what do we do what our government says there are crafts
01:14:14
that outstrip our arsenal by at least a hundred years to a thousand years at the
01:14:17
moment and we're like meh what do you think fredberg you're the scientist here there's a if you read the original um
01:14:25
uh treatment written by arthur clarke for the movie 2001 as space odyssey which was written before the movie and
01:14:32
then the book was written after the movie um he makes a really compelling point and the point he makes is that when
01:14:41
civilizations achieve um a sophisticated enough level of technology there's no longer a need to physically
01:14:49
transport yourself from start a star and transport yourself around the universe think about this for a second
01:14:56
take what we have from virtual reality today and fast forward 200 years and then take what we have in
01:15:02
terms of you know the ability to print and create anything we want on demand and fast forward two or three hundred
01:15:08
years those two conditions alone might give us the ability to strap on something to our brain and literally
01:15:15
and remember our brain is simply sensing what our body is given and if you can control what your brain
01:15:21
is sensing through some strap-on device or whatever you don't actually need to physically be
01:15:25
in the place where that happens so if we can remotely sense what's going on somewhere else in the universe or some
01:15:31
other part of our planet and we can remotely pick up those signals and view them or experience them
01:15:36
you don't need to physically be there and then secondly all this sorry all this via strap-on
01:15:41
okay yeah and then secondly i shouldn't use it i shouldn't use the term and then secondly if you could print it
01:15:46
you'd be honest yeah but think about if you guys ever watched the tv show star trek next generation
01:15:51
which i would guess maybe one of the replicator or the replicator or the holodeck and
01:15:55
you could watch it number three on my list of star trek yeah seriously if you walk in and you
01:16:00
could literally recreate the physical space that you want to be in to accomplish anything the holodeck and
01:16:05
then you could print anything why would you use all the energy and all of this work to transport
01:16:10
physical matter from one part of the universe to the other when all matter is transmutable
01:16:15
and the only thing that differentiates things is the photons coming off that matter which is just to sense it so if
01:16:20
you can sense things remotely while you're physically here why do i go through the trouble why go through the
01:16:24
trouble and so these are the same reason that we go to hawaii and not just watch a movie
01:16:30
no because we don't have enough of the sensing capabilities today to truly recreate being in hawaii
01:16:35
but imagine if we did and and we are very much on the path to doing that and in two three hundred years we have
01:16:41
the ability to physically recreate what it's like for our body to be in hawaii in every form
01:16:45
smell taste color everything about being there physically and our body experiences it
01:16:50
why the hell would you fly to hawaii you could meet people you could socialize so in a world short hawaii in a world
01:16:55
where that technology exists which could by the way be neural link right where you can you know put these signals
01:17:00
directly into the brain etc moving physical matter from one part of the universe to the other makes zero
01:17:04
sense all matter is transmutable you can convert one atom to another using a technology locally so you wouldn't do
01:17:10
that and so that's the premise of 2001 is that you've got these local communication pods
01:17:14
that just transmit information from different parts of the universe you don't need to physically transport
01:17:19
yourself so that's the that's the the macro kind of argument against this notion that ufos or aliens are in a
01:17:25
physical spacecraft visiting it's so old-school technology that it makes no sense it's like saying
01:17:31
you know oh my gosh all these people are coming over to the united states on horses
01:17:34
from europe you know like it just like why would they do that why would they use a horse
01:17:38
uh so so i think that's the argument against ufos being aliens and spacecraft now is there a really cool technology
01:17:44
that has this advanced capability and there are these crafts that are in our sky and
01:17:49
someone has that technology maybe um but i'm not sure about this general thesis i mean you blew my mind with that
01:17:56
so yeah saks uh i i you obviously don't care so we i just i have no way for this to increase the irr of my fund
01:18:06
or to get me another home beep boop bop boop on planet earth why would i want to
01:18:12
go i just somehow feel like if they're really ufos it'd be like an even bigger story like we'd all know it
01:18:18
you know it's not going to be some like weird fringe conspiracy thing here's the
01:18:22
here's the thing i do not care about emotions like humans tell you why would i care
01:18:27
about the emotions of others every single photograph that's been taken in the last
01:18:32
year is absolutely recognizably better than the one taken 10 years ago and every single photo or video of these
01:18:41
aliens looks like it was shot in a on a camera from 1950 on the film that was left in
01:18:47
somebody's basement and meanwhile meanwhile pixar movies can recreate literally the ocean
01:18:52
glimmering get me a clear shot there's not one clear shot of this show me the alien in 4k high def
01:19:00
and then i'll believe it okay by the engine and we can see the engine like why can't we get a shot of the
01:19:08
until then i will be traveling between my homes i am living my best life not in san
01:19:15
francisco we will get chesapeaden recalled i will tell you sex i don't think you
01:19:19
need to harp on the chessa point anymore because i don't hear anyone making the case on the other side
01:19:24
anymore dustin moskowitz yes what from us yes yes nick pull up the tweet so you know i'm basically because look
01:19:34
there oh we fired him up here we go then we can take off so insert quarter here and now my range upgrade before the
01:19:44
station inserted yes run rage function now no look we're taking all this heat from
01:19:51
these stupid reporters who are talking about our donations you know like asking what are we up to
01:19:56
uh look we're very public about what we're up to but this is a terrible tweet from dustin
01:20:02
there there have been these tech billionaires dustin mossovitz reed hastings and mike krieger and
01:20:09
they've been donating money to to chase a boudin and gasco that's disappointing yeah horrible so i
01:20:16
asked i just said why are you donating money this insanity and dustin's still defending it
01:20:22
and he said i'm going to mute you now because you know you didn't want to you didn't want to
01:20:26
wait wait just in fairness let me pull this up dustin's quote is i live in the city and i'm not going anywhere crime
01:20:32
happens to me too trust me we write extensively about why of our grants here you know here's the thing i think dustin
01:20:38
reed hastings um and their spouses are very involved in criminal justice reform and what we have to do is give somebody
01:20:47
like dustin or reed hastings to benefit the doubt here and say we understand your donations were
01:20:52
meaningful to you and you wanted to maybe lower the incarceration of black people in jail for
01:20:59
crimes that were not violent and we agree let's reverse this conversation because
01:21:06
we're not giving them the benefit of the doubt let me explain why okay so read it
01:21:09
so this is a good example this read hastings thing is a good example by the way just today
01:21:13
was announced that he donated three million to gavin newsom um in any event so you know he keep he
01:21:19
look he's on that side of the spectrum by the way there's a little back story there
01:21:22
i don't know if you guys remember when there was pressure uh on the facebook board to kick peter
01:21:27
thiel off but back in 2016. it was really nice that was from reed hastings okay so the guy is very
01:21:33
close-minded i think it's his wife is actually handling this one he was the board member who pushed to
01:21:38
get peter off because he couldn't handle the fact that there might be another board member
01:21:42
who disagree with him politically so it's a very close-minded point of view but let's take let's take
01:21:47
this example of crime in la okay so we had this uh election where george gascon who was a failure as
01:21:54
d.a in san francisco he goes down to la and runs against the the veteran d.a down there jackie lacy
01:22:02
who it happens to be a black woman a veteran seasoned d.a compton nobody had a problem with her i think she's a
01:22:10
democrat okay it's not like this is a right-wing person and so george gascon basically fails his
01:22:15
way out of san francisco goes down to la and he basically um dislodges her from that seat with 15 million dollars
01:22:23
an unprecedented amount spent a day election where did that money come from 5 million came from source 5 million
01:22:29
came for reed hastings 5 million came from blm now you know in any other context the idea
01:22:37
that you're gonna fire a talented competent seasoned veteran black woman and replace her with an
01:22:44
incompetent white male that would be seen as institutional racism but nobody complained about it at all
01:22:52
but it's outrageous yeah what is there what is the most charitable what's behind that
01:22:57
what is the most charitable view of why they're supporting gascon and chesapeake well
01:23:03
there's this decarcerationist agenda and so yes you're right that they see mass incarceration is a problem
01:23:11
but the problems it is but the solution is not mass decarceration that we need something in between and
01:23:18
the problem with gascone and chase of boudin they just want to let everybody out
01:23:22
they don't want them they also don't want to add anybody so i think if their agenda is to lower the number adding
01:23:27
people is against that there are people who need to go to jail murderers now people
01:23:32
dying every day in san francisco by at the hands of repeat offenders who chaser boudin has made the decision
01:23:41
to let them out of jail even though they should be in jail these are dangerous violent felons
01:23:47
the problem with this is i think chamath i would like to get your feedback on it
01:23:50
is you know you when a person gives these kind of donations and they make it their public persona
01:23:57
and it doesn't go well how does one you know i don't know disentangle or reconcile they made a bet that
01:24:10
had a bad outcome because this is obviously a bad outcome you don't want the city
01:24:14
to devolve into chaos i don't particularly care about san francisco and i think i think the two the two of
01:24:21
you guys can talk about it all no i'm done i'm going to get rid of my place in this one colin
01:24:25
but i i could i couldn't care less about how that sounds well closing i got nothing to say okay i want to add
01:24:33
just one thing look i so i care because i live there but but this trend this is not just san
01:24:37
francisco this whole idea of these radical decarcerationists they are running for
01:24:42
d.a in every major city this is going to be a national trend and they're going to cause a lot of
01:24:49
carnage a lot of death and destruction until the people realize and there will inevitably be a backlash
01:24:56
to this and hopefully just not too many people fair enough i i don't want to be too
01:25:00
flippant my point is it's a really important debate it's going to happen in every city
01:25:04
but folks need to get engaged in those cities and do something about it if if you want to hear the argument of why
01:25:11
this is happening you can go watch the ted talk on youtube of adam foss foss he was the original like proponent
01:25:19
of the da's coming in to drive the incarceration decarceration movements um and you know
01:25:26
i just think it's important to be informed of the other perspective uh uh in evaluating where folks are
01:25:31
coming from that are that are their proponents for this movement yeah i'm trying to be charitable towards
01:25:36
their position dustin and reed if you want to come on the pod and be a bestie guestie i guess maybe
01:25:41
dustin doesn't respond to me and said listen we don't know what the counterfactual is if we had a more
01:25:45
aggressive d.a that was his arguments we don't know the counterfeits so i of course so i posted a list of
01:25:51
people of innocent victims who've died okay because directly because of a decision that chase abu deen made
01:25:59
that's your counter factual yeah that's your counter factual all right listen it's been an amazing
01:26:04
episode and uh no plugs no ads no nothing if you like the show great and if you don't like it
01:26:12
how the hell did you make it to the minute 75 for the queen of quinoa the dictator himself
01:26:18
chamoli papatia i'm having steak tonight [Music] eggplant tonight you've never eaten fish
01:26:35
in your life never had sushi and saxons jack can we even talk about saks as hell
01:26:44
where's your first second and third dinner tonight i'm on a seafood diet i eat i see the food
01:27:09
this is your twilight zone episode i just bought i'm going i decided i'm going twice a week with the trainer and
01:27:14
i just bought the hydro so now i have tonal peloton tread and i got the hydro i'm going from smart
01:27:21
machine to smart machine hey are you spa oh i got it oh good question no no no no comment comment okay sorry i
01:27:30
just want some tweet people have other things to do guys i gotta go i gotta go all right
01:27:36
everybody love you guys yeah get a salad okay we love you bye besties and of course the dictator
01:27:52
[Music] it's hard to make good investments it's hard to build a company [Music] people think money is free and it's not
01:28:36
i pick up [Music] billionaire has brought the french i just can't stand them it's hard to make it it's hard to make
01:29:12
good investments it's hard to build a company because if it was easy everybody would
01:29:16
be doing it all the time [Music] this one man for yourself it's all about you you can figure it out
01:29:24
the rugged individualism that's just not realistic anybody who want who's listening to this
01:29:30
who wants to go to the french laundry stay at home pour a bunch of salt on whatever you're gonna eat
01:29:36
okay it's hard to make it it's hard to make good investments it's hard to build a
01:29:53
company because if it was easy everybody would be doing it all the time [Music] this one man for yourself it's all about
01:30:01
you you can figure it out the rugged individualism that's just not realistic like