00:00:00
I just want to be clear here I'm trying to do a docket and we have to put the kabash on this Insanity of the soap
00:00:09
opera that is becoming opening eye saxs because every week it's three four five stories have you seen what's happened
00:00:16
this week yeah of course got to catch the audience up here let's catch the audience up on what's happened
00:00:22
here this week on General AI hospital is Sam alman's job security and Jeopardy whose data was stolen this
00:00:33
time what did y see why isn't he talking about it and with our special guest will
00:00:40
our special guest get her revenge General AI Hospital brought to you by the drama queens at open air
00:00:49
wow that who made that that was great did you make that yeah that was me 10 out of 10 that was my idea but Nick's
00:00:57
and lon's execution so shout out to calanis you finally landed the the plane broken clock's right twice a day took
00:01:04
four years that was awesome broken clock is right twice a day the Jason that's my let your winners
00:01:14
ride rman D and instead we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with
00:01:23
[Music] it but seriously there was a big drama sax I don't know if you saw this but uh
00:01:32
like you couldn't have missed it with the scarjo so they made an emergency they had an emergency meeting got all the
00:01:38
developers together and they've reset they took Scarlett Johansson out and they got a new person I think arguably
00:01:43
better I'm freeberg I'm curious your take on this it's a better hey gbd how's it
00:01:47
going good good yeah good week what's going on I'm doing fine uh I'm going to be at father real soon and I think I can
00:01:55
have you help with some dad jokes um I'm going to tell you a joke and you tell me
00:02:01
if it passes as a dad joke I've never done that before all right what do you call a giant pile of
00:02:08
kittens give it to me a m no didn't quite land all right there it is folks if you want you can switch
00:02:18
to Saxy poo so just go into open they stole my voice now yeah they stole yours go into open ai go to voices and then
00:02:26
just pick Saxy poo it's right there between Putin and Tucker Putin Saxy F Tucker you can
00:02:33
find all your favorite Maga guests on the number one Maga program Allin podcast here we go all right we're off
00:02:41
to a strong start here everybody's in a good mood Let's uh let's keep the good times rolling here and let's go over the
00:02:47
scarjo Saga to recap if you're living under a rock this week it came out that open AI specifically Sam had contacted
00:02:56
Scarlett Johansson multiple times about lending her voice for for one of open ai's chat box obviously you know she
00:03:03
famously was the voice Samantha in the awesome film her and according to scarjo Alman told her she could quote bridge
00:03:10
the gap between tech companies and creatives and help consumers to feel comfortable with the seismic shift
00:03:17
concerning humans and Ai and that her voice quote would be comforting to people although she declined the offer
00:03:24
open AI released a chatot named Sky which had a similar voice to scarjo according to scarjo her friends and
00:03:31
family thought the voice was her she released a statement yada yada on May 13th the day open AI launched chat GPT
00:03:37
40 Omni which we talked about last week Alman tweeted her a reference to the film obviously now scarjo is threatening
00:03:46
legal action against openi Alman put out a statement apologizing and saying the voice was never intended to resemble
00:03:52
hers his quotee we're sorry to miss Jo Johansson that we didn't communicate better open I show Documents To The
00:04:00
Washington Post that confirm the voice was provided by a different actress who is anonymous post reporters also spoke
00:04:05
to the unnamed actress's agent who confirmed the story I guess sax you sent us a comparison clip maybe we start
00:04:13
there and see what we think yeah do do you guys think they sound the same I can understand and generate humanlike text
00:04:20
pretty well it really depends on what you're looking for in an assistant what specific tasks when I was like oh
00:04:28
sexuality like like it was like open my eyes to like some other thing Samantha they where'd you get that name
00:04:37
from I gave it to myself actually what do you think I think it sounds pretty darn similar dead on I mean I don't know
00:04:45
if it's dead on it honestly it sounds like a digitally altered version of her voice that's what it sounds like they
00:04:51
didn't get it perfect right got it 0% it sounds like it was her voice but then they
00:05:00
changed it so either that or they hired a voice actor who sounds like her and that's what the company has said is that
00:05:07
they hired a voice actor but they won't tell us who the voice actor is they said
00:05:11
because of privacy concerns which doesn't quite make sense to me because when you hire an actor they want
00:05:18
the credit you know yeah so get more work the company could just clear this whole thing up by saying exactly who the
00:05:24
voice actor is and why wouldn't the voice actor want that you know she doesn't exist back to she was the General open
00:05:38
AI wait they made this actress up I mean she doesn't exist of course it's a digitally altered version of
00:05:46
scarjo and they got caught Okay cookie jar this is why Sam's call to Scarlet's agents or her two days before they
00:05:56
launched is such a damning piece of evidence because it sounds like he's trying to shut the barn door on
00:06:02
something they've already done right they've got this demo ready they're going to launch it in two days they're
00:06:07
realizing maybe they don't have the rights to use her voice so you have to contact her to get those rights but
00:06:15
anyone who knows anything about Hollywood knows you're not going to be able to make a deal with a major star to
00:06:19
use their name and likeness in two days it's impossible so this seems like a really
00:06:24
crazy thing to do I mean I think the mere fact that he contacted them and then tweet twed out her which shows that
00:06:31
Scarlet was on the brain those are really damning pieces of evidence I think in this lawsuit and it I think
00:06:37
it's going to feed into our case I think look here's the thing this company is going to go down in the history books in
00:06:44
one part because the technical inventions that they've created are just next level and frankly created an entire
00:06:51
industry and I think they deserve a ton of credit for that but they're also going to be written in the history books
00:06:57
for two other things that are probably less aspirational I think the first is that
00:07:05
there's just all kinds of dust ups and unnecessary drama that just seem to kick around every few weeks or months and
00:07:13
then the second is the sheer Quantum of value capture that the employees have seen through secondaries before a fully
00:07:22
functional business has been really created and so I think it explains why folks circle the wagons consistently
00:07:29
it's a very I think it's a very rational organization they're technically ahead of everybody else a lot of people want
00:07:35
to put in money at you know Crazy Prices a bunch of that value is transferred immediately to the employees who circle
00:07:43
the wagons and do what's necessary to keep the Taps flowing and I think that that explains the whole thing and and I
00:07:49
think that that explains many Silicon Valley companies quite honestly cirle the wagons defend the company sell your
00:07:55
shares in secondary at 90 billion to thrive or whoever what would your take freedberg on all of this craziness and
00:08:02
drama I think what we will see over time is that rather then have the ability to
00:08:09
sue for their likeness a lot of AI that is like a celebrity the value of it will arise
00:08:19
from the celebrity's endorsement not actually using the celebrities features so without the
00:08:26
endorsement I know everyone kind of wants to point to this idea of likeness but I think that there's something about
00:08:30
the authentic aspect of having the celebrity actually endorse and provide their their signature their stamp on it
00:08:37
restaurants are a good example some celebrity chef says I was involved in making this menu that's a lot different
00:08:42
than mimicking the celebrity Chef's menu from his restaurant putting his or her name and brand on it there's a bunch of
00:08:48
videos on YouTube now I don't know if you guys ever you guys probably don't watch these but I love watching these
00:08:53
videos where like music producers make tracks and how they do it and so many of these producers now are using AI tools
00:08:59
tools taking samples off of old records or other tracks and then telling the AI make something that sounds like this or
00:09:06
looks like this but isn't like this and so there's enough of a transformation happening that it isn't a direct
00:09:12
likeness and then they're able to create entire vocal tracks without needing a singer or without needing the celebrity
00:09:17
singer so you're in the you're in the much ad do about nothing camp on this scard yeah I'm in I'm in the like like
00:09:23
the content itself I think is probably less like compelling oh go go after her because the voice sound the
00:09:30
but I do think that there's this element of like what if you could then say Hey you know Britney Spears actually lent
00:09:36
her voice to this track so do you think she if she sues open a ey do you think it should just get thrown out it's not a
00:09:41
real case no I think there's probably gonna be a lot of Discovery to sax this point that's going to show that they
00:09:46
probably did juicy no no no I'm not I'm not saying that I'm saying I'm asking you
00:09:51
more that yeah even if they find it your point is it shouldn't matter my point is
00:09:55
do you think that it should be thrown up well I don't know I mean hold on let's say you're a movie and you know you
00:10:01
can't get Scarlet jansson for it and so you tell the casting director get me a Scarlet jansson type I think you can do
00:10:05
that okay obviously you can't you can't use her name you can't use her likeness but you could hire a different actor who
00:10:12
might look or sound like Scarlet jansson if the company actually did that and they did it nine months ago this is what
00:10:18
the statement they put out I think they've got a decent defense yeah but because they may I don't know if we
00:10:25
believe that I mean again why why don't you just put out the name of the actual actor that voice actor that you used and
00:10:32
there's a very simple test here if the person if there's confusion amongst the public which is what scarjo put in her
00:10:39
letter and that was a legally written deafly written letter to set up a huge settlement because she said the morning
00:10:46
this came out all of my friends said oh my God congratulations on your chaty pale this is great the public being
00:10:54
confused is the key issue here and there's something called the right to publicity this is basically how celebr
00:10:59
defend their rights it's happening all the time to podcasters by the way there was a company that put me in their ads
00:11:04
based on something I said in a show and then they put ads against it and huberman's been having this happen Joe
00:11:10
Rog it's happening to me right now I I'm in the middle of this crazy thing with Facebook and they've been doing a very
00:11:16
good job the team of meta Ashley thank you but hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of automated accounts
00:11:22
pretending to be me selling all kinds of random stuff it's predominantly on WhatsApp and Facebook and meta and I
00:11:28
don't what to do because I we work together with them we shut it down I've actually had to reactivate my Facebook
00:11:35
and Instagram accounts which were dormant so that we could actually have them be verified so that then it's
00:11:41
easier to shut them down but it is an impossible task when somebody's impersonating you yeah to fight it at
00:11:48
least in my experience it's been a month and we it's just like every hundred we take down another thousand both in both
00:11:54
of those cases you guys have your exact image of you being shown to sell to sell
00:11:59
stuff I think that in this Cas it's also unique to scarjo because she was the voice from her there is no like if this
00:12:06
were like a voice sort of like Cameron Diaz or sort of like Julia Roberts it wouldn't be as big a deal because it
00:12:11
would certainly got some differences to it but it's because they're trying to mimic the movie her well didn't didn't
00:12:16
meta use Morgan Freeman when like Zuck created like an AI or something as a project do you guys remember that wasn't
00:12:22
Morgan Freeman The Voice they paid for it and uh there's a company speechify I'm not an investor or anything like
00:12:27
that but they have gwenneth paltro as a licensed voice to read your stuff so they should just they should just
00:12:33
license Gwyn voice obvious obvious like just whoever wants to get paid here's the opportunity if three people say no
00:12:41
think about the fact that they're not trying to say this is this person's voice but they want to say like hey
00:12:46
let's say you just can prompt the AI and say generate a voice that is sort of like movies that are comfortable and
00:12:52
calming to people to listen to and you know that that we've that that we think people will be comfortable and the AI
00:12:58
generates something that's sounds like said this before but it's not deliberately trained on scar using a
00:13:03
computer to probabilistically copy something is still copying something yes come on guys let's not make this too
00:13:08
complicated is the public confused is the only test you need for you what if there's two public actresses that both
00:13:14
have similar voices and then they both claim hey you tried to make this sound like me what do you do in that case
00:13:18
Jamal well which one did you call two days before the demo yeah exactly and did the CEO tweet her I think your whole
00:13:24
point about Discovery is what is going to get them in trouble in this case because they were clearly they were
00:13:29
clearly trying to do an impersonation of her right yeah if they never reached out
00:13:33
to Scarlet they could claim it's just a coincidence but they called her twice they called her some months before and
00:13:40
then two days before which indicates Panic judge Sachs give your verdict I'm starting a new spinoff show judge sa
00:13:47
says guilty okay judge sa sentence now what's the sentence the sentence is that Scarlett
00:13:56
Janson is going to end up owning more of this company than Sam Alman that's what to
00:14:03
happen look they call they call her two days before why do you do that guilty because you know you have a problem and
00:14:10
you're trying to put the horse back in the bar now what they should have done is as soon as she says no you just
00:14:16
change the voice completely or you get a fixer get Michael Cohen in there and get
00:14:20
a settlement going get let's let's get some uh fixer in there to fix it uh okay listen enough with open AI oh wait
00:14:27
there's more Dr geez it's ruining the docket I guess we have to talk about the next drama from a open AI this week
00:14:37
former employees sign an agreement that they're forbidden forever from criticizing the company or even
00:14:43
acknowledging that the NDA exists if a departing employee declines to sign the document or if they violate it they can
00:14:49
lose all vested Equity they earn during their time at the company in practice uh
00:14:55
this means ex employees have to choose between giving up millions of dollars they've already earned or agreeing not
00:14:59
to criticize the company in perpetuity a lot of details here we'll go to you yeah well you can see why they
00:15:07
wrote that in there that makes sense if you think hold on a second if an employee can leave with you know a
00:15:14
random copy of like some old weights as a starting point to rebuild the model that could be very valuable or there's
00:15:22
yeah yeah but well there's all kinds of like kind of Quasi confidential information or knowledge or knowhow that
00:15:29
you leave a place like that with so I could see why there was a justification to be very heavy-handed about it but
00:15:39
again the question isn't whether you're allowed to be heavy-handed you are the question is why backtrack and then offis
00:15:45
skade and lie after you get caught right what what do they say they claim it's an
00:15:50
accident once they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar which like you set your mouth is just a heavy-handed
00:15:55
agreement it's in the company's interest to do this yeah they just say was an accident just like the Scarlet thing is
00:16:00
an accident or a coincidence it's just getting hard to believe just own it and say you know what guys this is a really
00:16:05
valuable company there's a ton of very valuable trade secret know-ow IP confidential information and we're going
00:16:11
to be extremely litigious on the offense and protect it because our and it's correlated to the importance of the
00:16:18
company in the ecosystem you could have said that and people could have been upset but they would have understood
00:16:23
here's what Sam Alman said there was a provision about potential Equity cancellation in our previous exit docs
00:16:29
although we never clawed anything back it should never have been something we had in any documents or communication
00:16:36
this is on me and one of the few times I've genuinely been embarrassed running open
00:16:43
eye I did not know this was happening and I should have if any former employee who signed one of these old agreements
00:16:49
is worried about it they can contact me and we'll fix that too very sorry about this so he's very very s sorry it's
00:16:55
starting to be like BP Oil this company like they're just so sorry about everything here's the question is these
00:17:02
are form documents at the end of the day and form documents don't write themselves lawyers write them and when
00:17:08
you get a novel change in one of these documents somebody thought that through and thought it' be a good idea and put
00:17:13
it in there right and like jamas said there is a way to potentially defend that it's not like these Provisions
00:17:20
don't exist it's just a novel application to try and CLA back someone's already vested Equity from a
00:17:25
company well that is onal of these things yeah that is not exactly standard sometimes no that's completely
00:17:31
nonstandard I'm just saying that these Provisions exist in other context and their application as it as a clawback of
00:17:37
vested employee Equity is something that I don't think any of us have heard before so I haven't yeah yeah exactly so
00:17:44
my point is just this didn't happen as an accident somebody made a strategic business decision to do this because
00:17:50
they thought it'd be in the company's interest yeah so just en lments terms the clawback means you had 10 million in
00:17:56
equity you earned 75 %'s got 7.5 million in equity there you say something disparaging about the
00:18:04
company they can take it back from you once you leave a company and you vested Equity you don't lose it I mean as long
00:18:12
as you you have some period in which to uh exercise your option if it's an option rather than stock but other than
00:18:18
that I've never heard of a situation where employees can lose their vested Equity even in a situation sax we've
00:18:25
seen this where somebody commits fraud they still get their equity and then it's up to the company to sue them
00:18:31
for fraud separately right like we've seen of that I mean I guess that's right like committing a crime look I think the
00:18:38
question here is is it credible that they keep having these accidents and coincidences what does Judge sack
00:18:46
say judge sack says there's one too many coincidences you know look I think like
00:18:53
jamas said you could have just owned this and said yeah that this is a defended in the way he said and said but
00:18:58
you know what was too aggressive and we pulled it back I think the thing is look
00:19:01
if you if you think about the pendulum of culture in Silicon Valley we used to have a very tough culture of founder-led
00:19:11
businesses where there was extremely high expectations and if you transgressed it was very punitive and
00:19:19
then the pendulum swung in the all the way to the other opposite end where you had this like codling daycare type
00:19:26
approach that existed for like the last 15 or 20 years and probably what open AI
00:19:31
is is an example of a company that needs to be run a little bit more like the former but stuck with a bunch of people
00:19:38
that still pull it towards to be the ladder and that's the cultural tension that they're going to have to sort out
00:19:44
because in order to be this incredible Bastion of like AGI and Innovation I suspect that it's going to look more
00:19:51
like a three-letter agency in terms of security and protocols in the next 5 or 10 years than it is going to look like
00:19:57
the Google Plex and I think they just need to own that and this is probably a little bit of an insight into that
00:20:03
tension and they're going to have to go in more in that direction I think it's a
00:20:06
good insight you're not going to be allowed to build these incredibly crazy world beating Technologies where people
00:20:12
are running around in an eight-seater bicycle just not going to work guys and and by the way I mean because it is such
00:20:18
an industry-leading company I think we could end up with some very bad fair use precedents or laws because Scarlett
00:20:25
duranon is so sympathetic as a plan if compared to open Ai and it's you know unless they show us
00:20:34
some discovery that proves that they really did hire the voice actor and all the rest of it I mean this could lead to
00:20:40
some very bad precedents for the industry around fair use well and here we go I think the Microsoft will pay the
00:20:46
speeding ticket and we'll just all move on but freeberg my God can you imagine like being two or three phds and you
00:20:54
know machine learning or whatever you study your whole life you're pursuing General Ai and like people are coming up
00:21:00
to your desk and creating all this drama and nonsense and you're in the middle of
00:21:03
a soap opera while you're trying to create the technology that creates super intelligence it's
00:21:08
nuts yeah I find it annoying too just listening to it okay well then in that case we will move on from open AI up
00:21:17
sorry there's one more drama going on it's not just drama I mean it's there's now a lawsuit I think I think it's a
00:21:23
very interesting case the fair use case is interesting for sure I think it's a legitimately interesting case that's
00:21:29
if it goes all the way it's if it goes the distance it's going to create some really interesting precedents well I
00:21:34
mean you I'm say yeah these the what happens in these content cases is they get settled almost
00:21:41
every single time so the case law doesn't get cified they just get settled out of court if you go look at all the
00:21:47
fair use cases they they almost never go to the mat and so this one will just be
00:21:51
settled it'll just be a question think I think the other the interesting part of
00:21:56
the other story is that the reason all this stuff came out about the equity Club acts was because the safety team
00:22:01
quit and it got leaked during that process so this is the third dramatic story of the week that we that one I
00:22:07
think begs a little bit more of a so let me question yeah two heads of open AI super alignment team left the company
00:22:16
last week the day after GPT 40 launched Ilia announced he was leaving the company he was their Chief scientist a
00:22:24
few hours later his partner on the alignment team uh Yan Leica also announced he was resigning in a later
00:22:32
thread Leica explained that he left due to quote safety culture and processes have taken a backseat to shiny products
00:22:41
okay there's a little bit of disparagement uh to our former point about non- disparages n and ndas so a
00:22:49
open AI lost both its heads of AI alignment one day after it launched that new product is that a coincidence that's
00:22:57
interesting if you don't know what super alignment is it's basically making sure that the software
00:23:04
doesn't go Terminator what are your thoughts on this freedberg I don't know I mean it could
00:23:10
be some bad bureaucracy bad politicking not being listened to but I think the real interesting
00:23:18
question is who's G to ask these guys what's really going on from a technology perspective and what is that
00:23:27
going to reveal because these clearly are on the frontier of model development and the performance of models and so my
00:23:35
guess is there are certain regulatory people who are going to have interest in the fact that this team just left
00:23:41
they're going to make a phone call they're going to ask this team to come in and have a conversation and they're
00:23:44
going to start to ask a lot of questions about what the state of technology is over there and I I suspect that some
00:23:50
things are going to start to come out saaks it it was reported that Ilia was on the side of the
00:23:58
nonprofit e slow down AI be cautious group when they fired Sam so what's your take on what's going on here with super
00:24:08
alignment inside of open AI judge sax let's let's call this what it is a mass resignation and we don't really know why
00:24:16
I mean apparently they were promised something like 20% of the Computing resources of open Ai and they didn't get
00:24:22
that I definitely read that somewhere and so that is part of it I think but we don't really know the whole
00:24:29
story and you know when you look at this issue of the mass resignation and then you look at the issue of the
00:24:37
clawback of vested employee Equity you're like well wait a second maybe they felt like they needed that claw
00:24:44
back in order to deter all these people who are leaving from spilling the beans about right whatever was upsetting them
00:24:51
something clearly upset them right yeah that's why people are saying there's this meme what did ilas see what did he
00:24:56
see yeah and then like you said the board did fire him and the only explanation they provided was that he
00:25:02
wasn't being candid which at the time we thought was an incredibly damning statement and we thought we'd get some
00:25:09
explanation of it we never got any explanation whatsoever you know I thought that the board was being
00:25:14
incompetent because I thought that either they fired him overly hastily or they had reason to fire him but then
00:25:20
they communicated poorly and you know it you add all these things up and it definitely seems like smoke Sam's a
00:25:28
shooter we should just have him on the Pod to explain what I me'll clear everything up stop me
00:25:35
if you heard this before Nvidia Nvidia just smashed all expectations while reporting record profits and revenue the
00:25:41
AI train continues on Wednesday Nidia reported earnings for the fiscal q1 Revenue was 26 billion up 18% quarter a
00:25:50
quarter 260% year over year basically they quadrupled year-over year on billions of
00:25:56
Revenue this chart is Bonkers we've never seen anything like this in the history of Silicon Valley or Corporate
00:26:03
America this is if somebody like literally was mining coal and then found a diamond and gold mined underneath it
00:26:10
it's Bonkers what's happened here when you look at the revenue there the you know sort of slow growth or moderate
00:26:17
growth Revenue that they experienced that was all because Nvidia was primarily providing gpus for people
00:26:25
playing video games or mining crypto and then what you see with this unbelievable six quarter run uh and five
00:26:31
six quarter run is companies like Microsoft Google Tesla open AI Etc buying just billions and billions of
00:26:40
dollars worth of Hardware I'll end on this and chathan get your take on it here's 2019 top
00:26:49
companies by market cap in the world obviously Microsoft Apple Amazon Google Burkshire Facebook Alibaba 10cent and
00:26:57
then you get some of the you know incumbents and Legacy companies J&J Exxon and JP Morgan Visa way down on the
00:27:05
list in 2019 number 84 was Nvidia today Nvidia is the third largest company by market cap behind Microsoft and Apple
00:27:13
and ahead of Google AKA alphabet and Saudi aramco shth what's your take on this will it
00:27:22
continue and how do you conceptualize this level of growth on such a big number I mean I think it's a really
00:27:31
really incredibly fun moment if you're inolved in anything AI related just because it shows the level of investment
00:27:40
that invidious customers are making into making this new reality available for everybody
00:27:49
right so when you're spending effectively a 100 billion dollars a year on the capex of chips and then a couple
00:27:55
hundred billion more on all the related infrastructure and then another couple hundred billion
00:28:00
more on power you're talking about half a trillion to 3 of a trilon dollars a year being spent to bring AI forward to
00:28:09
the masses so I think that's the really positive take the other exciting thing is if you're on the other side of the
00:28:16
Nvidia trade which is you're working on something that does what they do cheaper
00:28:23
faster or better it's also really exciting because at some point the laws of capital kick in right we've talked
00:28:29
about this when you are over earning so massively the rational thing to do for other actors in the arena is to come and
00:28:36
attack that margin and give it to people for slightly cheaper slightly faster slightly better so you can take share
00:28:44
yes so I think what you're seeing and what you'll see even more now is this incentive for Silicon Valley who has
00:28:50
been really reticent to put money into chips really reticent to put money into Hardware they're going to get pulled
00:28:57
into investing this space because there's no choice you you have a company that went from 100 billion in market cap
00:29:03
to 25 trillion in four years it's just way too much value that that is there to then be leaked back you know the
00:29:11
interesting thing to remember during the PC Revolution which is really mostly the
00:29:15
90s right it ended in the late 90s I would say like 98 99 right before the Doom bubble took over Intel's Peak
00:29:22
market cap was I think it got to about $200 billion and then there average growth
00:29:29
rate from 1998 to today was negative 1.4% a year right so it went from about 200 billion
00:29:36
to about 130 odd billion and why it's not that intel was a worse company but it's that everything else caught up and
00:29:45
the economic value went to things that sat above them in the stack then it went to Cisco for a while right then after
00:29:52
Cisco it went to the browser companies for a little bit then it went to the app companies then it went to the device
00:29:58
companies then it went to the mobile companies so you see this natural tendency for Value to push up the stack
00:30:05
over time so let me ask we've done step one which is now you've given all this value to in to Nvidia and now we're
00:30:12
going to see it being reallocated so jamath who's in the arena trying stuff some of these things working not working
00:30:19
yeah so right now what you do is you speculatively bet on anything that kind of like quote unquote rhymes with Nvidia
00:30:26
so AMD is ripping the companies that make HPM is ripping so all of that stuff the folks that make optical cables this
00:30:36
Japanese company that I found that makes like the high bandwidth optical cables ripping so every anything related to
00:30:43
that ecosystem right now is at all-time Highs but at the same time what you find
00:30:49
now is like every other day when you wake up and read the the trades in techland you find that there's a company
00:30:56
that's gotten seated with to 50 million bucks to create a new chip right you're also starting to see folks that are
00:31:02
working a little bit above the stock and build better compilers right things that'll allow you
00:31:08
to actually build once run in many different compute environments so all of this stuff is starting to happen at some
00:31:17
point the spread trade will be that Nvidia loses share even though revenues keep compounding to these ups yeah death
00:31:25
by a thousand startups all right SX I guess one of the questions people are asking
00:31:30
right now is have we ever seen a company at this scale and the impact it's having
00:31:35
not just in technology which shth just pointed out beautifully but also it's having a huge impact on Wall Street on
00:31:41
the stock market on finance well the the company that everyone Compares Nvidia to or asks the
00:31:50
question about whether a historical comparison should be made is Cisco so there's an article in modle fool saying
00:31:57
is Nvidia doing to be the next Cisco there was one in morning star called Nvidia 2023 versus Cisco 1999 will
00:32:05
history repeat itself the reason they're asking these questions is that if you go
00:32:09
back to the doom boom in 1999 can pull up the stock performance chart you can see that Cisco had this incredible
00:32:18
run and if you overlay the stock price of Nvidia it seems to be following that same trajectory and what happened with
00:32:27
Cisco is that when the crash came in 2000 Cisco stock lost a huge part of its value obviously Cisco is still around
00:32:33
today and it's a valuable company but it just hasn't ever regained the type of market cap it had the reason this
00:32:39
happened is because Cisco got commoditized so to Chamas point the success and market cap of that company
00:32:44
attracted a whole bunch of new entrance and they copied Cisco's products until they were total Commodities so the
00:32:51
question is well that happened to Nvidia yeah and I think the difference here is
00:32:56
that at the end of the day Network equipment which Cisco produced was pretty easy pretty onedimensional pretty
00:33:02
yeah pretty easy to data around yeah right whereas if you look at Nvidia it's the these uh GPU cores are really
00:33:10
complicated to make and Jensen makes this point that the h100 for example has thousands of components and it weighs
00:33:18
like 70 pounds or something like that I mean like a giant oven I mean it's like a main frame it's not it's not just like
00:33:24
a little chip so it's a much more complicated product to copy and then on top of that they're already in the R&D
00:33:31
cycle for the next chip right whatever it's going to be the h200 or whatever it is and so as people try to catch up with
00:33:38
h100 they're going to be on to h200 so I think you can make the case that Nvidia
00:33:43
has a much better moat than Cisco and just by the way on this Cisco comparison just to just finish the thought people
00:33:50
were making this comparison six months ago and what's happened since then nvidia's had two blowout quarters and
00:33:56
the competitors don't seem to be that closer maybe a little bit closer but so you know look I think it's an open
00:34:03
question so there's a counter here freeberg which is obviously if you follow the Cisco analogy one of the
00:34:09
things that also sunk Cisco was once people had bought all that capacity there was no need there was no file size
00:34:17
that was so great that it couldn't be moved easily around the internet you know you make movies HD Super HD 2K 4K
00:34:25
the B we've created too much bandwidth there was no use for it so I guess that that's a counterargument for maybe when
00:34:32
if we build up too much capacity Nvidia also could not by competitors but just by the buildout being enough so what's
00:34:38
your take on that counterargument and then whatever other thought you have I think that the Cisco analogy it's a
00:34:44
pretty different situation because Cisco evolved the business to become much more
00:34:47
Enterprise Centric and they were able to to run an m&a process like we see with Enterprise software where they could
00:34:55
acquire and roll up lots of different product companies and sell into their Enterprise channel so do a lot of cross-
00:35:01
selling Nvidia is not a super acquisitive business and it doesn't make as much sense because they're selling
00:35:07
much more kind of infrastructure tools whereas Cisco moved really high up in the in the Enterprise stack they were
00:35:13
selling stuff into Office Buildings they were selling software they did Acquisitions to kind of fully integrate
00:35:19
they had a very diverse set of products that were selling through an Enterprise Channel further up the value stack and a
00:35:25
pretty distributed customer base no no serious concentration even though they did sell a lot into Data Centers they
00:35:30
were also selling to Telos they were selling to Enterprises they were selling to governments and so on if you look at
00:35:35
nvidia's Revenue they did $26 billion of total revenue in the quarter 22 billion
00:35:39
of which was Data Center and about 40% of that was from the top four hyperscalers so a full one-third of
00:35:47
nvidia's Revenue in the quarter came from I believe it's Google Amazon Microsoft and meta and so between those
00:35:55
four businesses you know that those companies each have I believe at least over or close to hundred billion dollar
00:36:02
of cash sitting on their balance sheet they can't find great places to invest that cash to grow revenue and so they've
00:36:09
rationalized away the idea that they will make capex investments to build over the next 5 to 10 years and this is
00:36:14
where that money flows yeah we talked about that in a previous episode because there's no m&a to your Point's not gonna
00:36:19
let you buy stuff or the UK is not gonna let you buy stuff so I think that they're going to have less maneuvering
00:36:24
capability than Cisco had in the future and obvously there's this deep concentration risk which is going to be
00:36:30
deeply challenging I think Nvidia this is to build on Sox's point is going to get pulled into competing directly with
00:36:36
the hyperscalers so if you were just selling chips you probably wouldn't but sax is right like these are these big
00:36:45
bulky actual machines then all of a sudden you're like well why don't I just create my own physical plant and just
00:36:51
stack these things and create racks and racks of these machines and goe to AWS instead of selling to them it's not a
00:36:58
far stretch especially because Nvidia actually has the software interface that everybody uses which is Cuda so I think
00:37:06
it's it's likely that Nvidia goes on a full frontal assault against gcp and Amazon and Microsoft that's going to
00:37:13
really complicate the relationship that those folks have with each other but I think it's inevitable because you're get
00:37:19
how do you defend it's kind of the Apple problem how do you defend an enormously
00:37:25
large market cap you're forced to go into to businesses that are equally lucrative now if I look inside of
00:37:31
compute and look at the adjacent categories they're not going to all of a sudden start a competitor to Tik Tok
00:37:37
right or a social network but if you look at the multi hundred billion Revenue businesses that are adjacent to
00:37:43
the markets that Nvidia enables the most obvious one is the hyperscalers which are multi hundred billion dollar Revenue
00:37:49
businesses so they're going to be forced to compete otherwise their market cap will shrink and I don't think they want
00:37:57
that and then it's going to create a very complicated set of incentives for Microsoft and Google and
00:38:03
meta and apple and all the rest and that's also then going to be an accelerant they're going to pump so much
00:38:08
money to help all of these upstarts to your point Jason chip away and nip at the the Achilles heels of Nvidia until
00:38:17
they fall yeah and there's a great uh precedent for what you're saying because or Clues Amazon is making chips Google
00:38:24
is making chips and in Tesla's making chips chip everybody's makes their own chips and they got rid
00:38:31
of Intel and so this is how it's going to go your margin is my opportunity uh and you know with all
00:38:38
this market cap increase the good news is uh it's just reported that Jensen has bought a second leather jacket so well
00:38:44
this market cap has enabled him to expand the work bit way I gotta say he looks really good he looks super fit you
00:38:50
know he a picture is he is he in his late 50s he's going into his Harrison Ford he looks he
00:38:56
look great the salt and pepper 61 61 he looks amazing he looks amazing I'll tell you something in the zombie
00:39:05
apocalypse draft I'm picking him that guy seems crafty you know what do you think he does for
00:39:11
exercise no plastic ball plastic ball no no no his balls have plastic steal in there no no he's got his have brass in
00:39:21
literally hadass put into his balls no all of our balls have plastic apparently okay well we have two choices here we
00:39:28
can go with another tech story or we can go directly to science corner and well no I think we do state of the economy
00:39:34
and then do science Corner okay so you want to talk about our pocketbooks and then we'll talk about our pockets and
00:39:39
then we'll just make a quick detour to the right and then talk about our balls we're in the same vicinity so I think we
00:39:44
should end on our balls okay great let's let's end with our balls likes to start with the balls I
00:39:50
don't know everybody's got different kind of Vibes here the ball play should come a little bit later in the in the
00:39:57
progr you want to save the ball play for lighter sax I'm having a hard time keeping this
00:40:04
together guys more than half of Americans think we're in a recession I think we're in a Vibe session right now
00:40:11
because we're not in a recession but people are feeling really bad a Harris poll conducted by the guardian shows
00:40:18
that 5 56% of Americans wrongly believe the US is in a recession not surprisingly they blame Biden the poll
00:40:26
highlighted a bunch of misconceptions 55% believe the US economy is shrinking it's obviously not 56% think the US is
00:40:34
experiencing recession it's obviously not 49% of be above believe the S&P 500 stock market index is down for the year
00:40:41
it's up 12% this year it was up 24% in 2023 and 49% believe that unemployment is at a 50-year high when it's in fact
00:40:50
at a 50-year low and Americans are really concerned about the cost of living in inflation
00:40:56
fair enough 70% said the biggest economic concern was the cost of living 68% said that inflation was the biggest
00:41:04
economic concern important quote here a majority of respondents agreed it's difficult to be happy about positive
00:41:10
economic news when I feel financially squeezed each month and that the economy was worse than the media made it out to
00:41:16
be according to the poll 70% of Republicans and 40% of Democrats think Biden is making the economy worse
00:41:23
jamaath you have some thoughts on this I'm going to go out on a limb speculate that a lot of
00:41:30
the big numbers that we use to gauge how we should feel about things in today's day and age are pretty
00:41:39
brittle okay explain fragile and may may actually just be totally wrong so what's
00:41:46
an example so for example like if you look at something like non-farm payrolls right so the first Friday of every month
00:41:53
you get this report that comes out from the the Department of Labor and it shows
00:41:57
what where unemployment is but how do they calculate that do you think that they have a realtime sense of exactly
00:42:03
every person in that month that entered the workforce or exit at the workforce no they do a survey and then they
00:42:09
extrapolate and if you do that survey incorrectly and Jason you've commented on this before for example if you don't
00:42:15
capture adequately the number of people that are on the sidelines and never join
00:42:19
the workforce or the number of people that are part of the gig economy so they are kind of working you get an
00:42:24
inaccurate sense of where the real economy is I think that GDP is somewhat similar
00:42:30
because if you just break down what GDP is so Nick there's a very simple pie chart I sent to you what is GDP it's the
00:42:38
sum of four things most of it is what people spend okay then the next big chunk is what
00:42:47
companies and governments spend and then the last is what we export to other countries so let's just pause for one
00:42:54
second and think about what do you think happens when rates are Zero versus when
00:42:58
rates are at 6% people spend a lot more well people are tend are tend to save when interest rates are high just look
00:43:06
the natural thing like why would I buy a pair of these Nike shoes I'll just put it in the bank I get six% but when the
00:43:12
bank pays you zero you're like ah let me buy these Air Force Ones and move on right it turns out it's the same for
00:43:18
companies companies find it easier to invest when rates are at zero because it's cheaper it's much more expensive
00:43:24
because they're borrowing money at 6% versus at 0% or more more corporate gets charge a higher fee right yeah then when
00:43:30
you have high interest rates you have a currency that appreciates it makes exports less attractive to other people
00:43:39
which means then you become a importer okay so what is the last thing that's left the last thing that's left is
00:43:44
government spending and you have to ask the question what should governments do when rates are
00:43:51
high there was a chart I published in my annual letter if you just go to that for
00:43:55
a second and just going back to this chart right before it just so the people who are listening if you put the pie
00:44:00
chop art Nick important for people to know consumer is about 70% of the economy and if you put investment in
00:44:06
government together that's just over maybe 34% ex% so it is a consumer-driven economy but hey you know corporate and
00:44:15
government spending is a major piece as well and then and I just wanted just to highlight that when interest rates are
00:44:23
very high all of a sudden governments are faced with this very ult problem which is oh man I have to spend a ton of
00:44:29
money on interest just like if you had a bunch of credit cards and all of a sudden the interest rates went up so the
00:44:35
choice is twofold do governments spend less but unfortunately it turns out that our governments in America they just
00:44:44
keep spending more and more so even if net interest income is small even if net interest income is high they're just
00:44:50
like forget it the Taps are on so what does this all mean I think what it really means is that we do a very poor
00:44:55
job of measuring all these Dynamics together and so I actually trust the survey data of these individuals more
00:45:04
than I trust the GDP report in the sense that I think it more accurately captures
00:45:09
this Dynamic rates are at 6% people are saving more if they're not getting paid more things are costing more the
00:45:16
government is giving you free money so you kind of feel like everything is moving so that the GDP measurement the
00:45:22
way that it's classically done shows that wow we grew at three or 4% but the average individual American isn't
00:45:29
feeling that they're actually feeling that they have less money so I would actually go with them and actually say
00:45:36
if we don't revisit this thing from first principles we're going to get this Dynamic
00:45:41
where we think one thing is happening but the actual exact opposite is happening in this case I do think we're
00:45:47
we're in a quasy synthetic recession SX what's your take on the vibe session well look I I tend to agree with jamaath
00:45:56
on this I think this a classic story of who do you believe do you believe the experts or do you believe in the
00:46:01
intuitions of the American people and the experts have some statistics on their side but you know the old saying
00:46:09
goes there's lies damn lies and statistics and then the American people have their actual lived experience on
00:46:16
their side they know what they're feeling and I tend to trust in that and obviously we're in an election year and
00:46:22
the Press knows that so they're trying to do this big cleanup effort for Biden but why why is it that people are
00:46:27
feeling this way number one is inflation and if you look at this chart you can see that if you look at household net
00:46:35
worth since the start of the Biden presidency and compare it to the change in household net worth at a similar
00:46:42
point in Trump's presidency in nominal terms it appears to be the same but then if you adjust for inflation in other
00:46:48
words you look at the real household net worth you can see that household net worth during the Biden term has been
00:46:55
flat actually it's down because of inflation right because of inflation where did the inflation come from where
00:47:01
did the inflation come from yeah well Larry Summers warned in the first quarter of the Biden Administration that
00:47:08
if you passed an unnecessary $2 trillion do of covid stimulus you would produce inflation the inflation rate when Biden
00:47:16
came into office was 1.7% we had a rip raring economy but he started stimulating and we talked about bomic is
00:47:23
this new policy of pumping trillions of dollars of stimulus into a healthy economy which we've never
00:47:29
done before what happened inflation went all the way to 9% so people's wages have
00:47:34
not kept up with the rate of inflation this is why they feel worse off when you actually look at purchasing power people
00:47:40
are worse off in terms of their actual ability to buy things their purchasing power has gone down wages may have gone
00:47:46
up a little bit but they have not gone up as much as inflation so people feel worse off now Larry also had that I
00:47:53
think really informative study showing that inflation would have Peak at 18% if you include cost of borrowing so again
00:48:00
to Chamas point if you're trying to get a mortgage and you're paying 7 and a half 8% you feel way worse off if you
00:48:07
need to buy a car and make a car payment you feel much worse off if you've got credit card debt which is now hit an
00:48:13
all-time record of something like 1.1 trillion your credit card rates have never been higher right so the average
00:48:19
American feels worse off because cost of borrowing has a huge impact on their household finances and that's why if you
00:48:25
read like one of the last paragraph in that story that you referred to they use the key words the consumer feels
00:48:31
squeezed the average household feels squeezed they may not have lost their job yet but they've lost purchasing
00:48:37
power and they've lost they're under they're under earning they're under earning and so the pro this obvious and
00:48:43
you know the pre the Press can Gaslight us all day long about how wonderful things are under Biden but the average
00:48:48
American I think understands differently based on their own experience I think the whole thing comes down to the
00:48:55
projection of an individual or a household of their lived experience onto the economy you assume that because
00:49:02
you're having a tough time the economy is bad that and the economy as a definition for them is how do I earn and
00:49:10
how do I spend and if I'm under earning that means there must be serious job loss and things are more expensive and
00:49:17
my ability to purchase isn't improving and so I think we're all kind of going to end up on the same take on this one I
00:49:23
mean Nick if you want to pull this image up this is I think a helpful one which is disposable personal income relative
00:49:29
to outlays that folks are needing to spend more than they're making so clearly indicating that they're feeling
00:49:37
like they're under earning so the projection of that is the economy is bad without recognizing that it is an
00:49:42
inflationary experience whereas economists use the definition of of quote economic growth being gross
00:49:49
production gross product and so if gross product or gross revenue is going up they're like oh the economy is healthy
00:49:55
we're growing but the truth is we're funding that growth with leverage at the national level the federal level and at
00:50:02
the household and domestic level we are borrowing money to inflate the revenue numbers and so the GDP goes up but the
00:50:12
debt is going up higher and so the ability for folks to support themselves and buy things that they want to buy and
00:50:19
continue to improve their condition in life has declined if things are getting worse and if you go to the next image as
00:50:26
s pointed out already here's the image of total outstanding credit card debt over a trillion dollars it's totally
00:50:32
spiked and it's going to continue to spike just like federal debt because of the next chart which is the sudden jump
00:50:39
in interest rates so we've seen credit card interest rates jump from 12% on average 10 years ago to
00:50:47
21.9% right now and it was at 14% at the end of 2022 so we've gone from 14% average credit card interest
00:50:56
rates to 22% now in just about 24 20 to 24 months and so the the projection that
00:51:04
I think of the quote economy must be bad is resulted from the fact that income to
00:51:09
spending is actually pretty negative so here's the real median family income this actually only goes through 2019 so
00:51:16
it doesn't even capture the era the era that we're talking about but this has been going on uh for quite some time
00:51:22
that the average American's ability to improve their condition has largely been driven by their ability to borrow not by
00:51:29
their earnings and this has create a substantial set of precedents that were now running into a wall with interest
00:51:35
rates spiking and inflation hitting us because of the overall federal debt that we've taken on I think we're probably
00:51:40
going to go around the horn and all agree obviously the crazy spending started in the Trump and covid era and
00:51:46
that caused a lot of the inflation as well just to be fair it's two two administrations that are just out of
00:51:51
control with spending but uh the way I look at this is the Mickey D economy people may not know this but 96% of
00:51:59
Americans eat meals at least once a year in McDonald's 8% of Americans eat at McDonald's on an average day and when
00:52:06
you look at the prices of McDonald's here uh if we look at this image yeah this is incredible this is incredible
00:52:11
this is unbelievable medium french fries at McDonald's Buck 79 in 2019 and now 419 and then if we look at just
00:52:19
McNuggets gosh 449 to 758 68% increase McChicken 1229 to 3 389 and then here is a very interesting one this is CPI
00:52:30
versus McDonald's Big Mac prices take a look at that as much as the Consumer Price Index has surged Big Macs have
00:52:37
exceeded that and so Americans are seeing this over and over again when they go to McDonald's and other places
00:52:46
and and that's what's causing the feeling back to chart go back to that McNugget chart I just want to see what
00:52:52
what is it end of 2019 so this is basically you'd want to look at the fouryear stock price right so like these
00:52:57
guys have jacked up prices massively if you you look at what's happened to the stock the stock is way up it's kind of
00:53:03
been they've been very motivated and rewarded as a company for just rewarding the shareholder and kind of screwing
00:53:10
over the customer if you own equities in McDonald's and you're in the top third or half of maybe half of Americans who
00:53:16
have Equity exposure you're feeling great if you're on the bottom third or half and you're buying at McDonald's and
00:53:22
you don't own Equity McDonald's you feel terrible free break you had some additional thoughts yeah but remember
00:53:28
what McDonald's and other fast food companies have said is that labor costs have climbed here's a chart on labor
00:53:34
costs that Nick can pull up workers at Walmart and McDonald's have had pay increases but this has really been to
00:53:41
try and keep up with inflation the inflation of other costs so a lot of people will say oh they're price gouging
00:53:48
they're ripping off consumers to make profits for shareholders but the truth is the biggest component of running
00:53:53
those restaurants is labor and labor has gotten more expensive because the employees that work there
00:53:59
have to earn enough to pay their bills and to afford their food and this is the circular effect of inflation it finds
00:54:06
its way all through the economy it filters down and it eventually hits everyone look fast food's a pretty
00:54:11
competitive business I mean I think the reason why McDonald's is Raising prices because everyone else is Raising prices
00:54:17
I mean otherwise they'd be losing share and just go to the grocery store and look at the price of steak or chicken or
00:54:22
whatever or eggs it's gone up tremendously over the last few years let me ask you a candy question when's
00:54:29
the last time you were in Supermarket be honest when's the last time you literally went to a I'm just curious
00:54:37
It's not relevant I mean yeah look obviously we know that the price of eggs doesn't affect me okay great I'm in a
00:54:43
fortunate position that's not what the topic is the topic is what is the impact on the American people and why why do
00:54:49
70% of the people in that poll feel that we're in a recession even though the expert tell us we're not and I've
00:54:55
explained yeah and and the other thing is there's a went to supermarket the day I like
00:55:01
going to supermarket I take my I believe how expensive things I mean some of the
00:55:06
stuff I was just blown away how expensive things it's Bonkers about the look at the look at the package I sent
00:55:11
you guys the Driscoll super sweet strawberries you cornered the market on I went and tried to find them here in
00:55:17
Sano there's none left they said shth cornered the market went toas not and I no not and I go to sigonas every week a
00:55:25
because we like buying our own fruit yeah but also be because our kids like to do it and they like to see what
00:55:30
things cost and they like to pick stuff but fantastic you know this sweetest batch was seven bucks for how many
00:55:35
strawberries it by the way 12 strawberries in there well so here's what I'll tell you quite honestly I'm
00:55:40
like I think that you need to put these guys on notice oh on blast the perfume so the the the nose like just like it's
00:55:51
incredible okay the smell is the aroma is just absolutely incredible yeah but to be totally honest with you the mouth
00:55:58
feel and the sweetness is not what this label would imply yeah what were you expecting in terms of mouth feel I was
00:56:08
expecting like something juicier more succulent let let me ask you a question do you have a somaler for your fruit
00:56:16
yeah I mean you seem like a real connoisseur here you do T no I told been texting I've been I've been texting
00:56:23
freedberg about this for months I am a connoisseur of fruit okay it's very important to me I like good fruit so you
00:56:32
know my wife and I go and find good fruit for our family and it's really expensive and even this overpromises and
00:56:38
underd deliver so freeberg if you can land a GMO strawberry I'm gonna put it in my
00:56:45
belly give me a GMO strawberry freeberg twice as big three times as sweet get in
00:56:50
my belly I think we should all go to Tokyo for a weekend and do some fruit tasting in Tokyo you have to get on the
00:56:57
Hokkaido strawberries this is where it's at you have no idea like what you can spend on strawberries people are
00:57:04
spending 10 bucks on a strawberry it is Bonkers I bought a $100 mango once in Tokyo yeah
00:57:10
incredible you know the other thing I think with these numbers is if you're an economist and you're like inflation has
00:57:17
gone down that means the rate of inflation's gone down from 6 or 7% down to 3% or 2.9 or 3.1 that doesn't mean
00:57:24
prices aren't still going up and if you want to replace if you want to replace GDP there was a very good
00:57:31
article in the Wall Street Journal a few weeks ago about how there's been just a
00:57:36
total breakdown in what these highlevel numbers say kind of what we've been saying and how Americans feel and they
00:57:42
introduced a different score well they they gave it publicity it's not their score but it's something that they call
00:57:48
the core score okay and what that does it's I'll just read it to you just so you can understand it it's a county
00:57:54
level index of well being using measures of Economic Security Economic Opportunity health and political voice
00:58:02
and so the lowest possible score is zero the highest possible score is 10 as it turns out when they use this across
00:58:08
every County in America the distribution is basically as follows the the most quote unquote prosperous county is FS
00:58:16
Church Virginia which is 7.86 out of 10 and the lowest county is Jim Haw County of Texas which has a score of 2.25 so to
00:58:26
the extent that you want to start to look at granular measures this is one I'm not going to advocate for it but
00:58:31
it's an example but what are you noticing here what I noticed is that there's a lot of patches of like me to
00:58:38
not good in most parts of America and so other than a very few small Pockets where people feel
00:58:47
great most of the country is sort of dissatisfied and I think that that's a really important thing to internalize
00:58:54
yeah some of this is classic psychology you know people do focus on the negative
00:58:59
the media focuses on the ne negative and then with social media people are seeing
00:59:03
Lifestyles that are unattainable just like they're seeing body types that are unattainable because people are doing
00:59:08
filters you're also seeing people living a lifestyle that's unattainable and then
00:59:13
it makes people because their expectation of their life is so high when they then subtract the reality of
00:59:19
their life they've got a deficit and really happiness is like expectations minus reality equals happiness yeah but
00:59:26
you had that same Dynamic when consumer sentiment was much higher in a previous administration people are feeling much
00:59:31
better about the economy so that's a constant yeah well people were having free money Dro on head people having
00:59:37
free Trump dropped free money on people's head so your argument that Biden was crazy in spending sent with
00:59:43
his name on it yeah when the economy when the economy was down 33% year-over-year but you ad that way too
00:59:50
much money right you admit he spent way both parties thought that we were headed
00:59:54
for depression and so we had a bipartisan stimulus Bill during an actual crisis once the crisis was over
01:00:01
there was no need to keep spending so when Trump signed Jason Jason let's be fair he wasn't
01:00:09
responsible and once the seal has been broken yeah I think it's fair to say both sides of the aisle now believe that
01:00:18
they can give away an enormous amount of money both there there's nobody that feels like they have a responsibility to
01:00:25
stop but I think I think SX is but saaks is right in the sense that so if you take
01:00:30
that as a constant right that there will always be handouts now of all kinds yep
01:00:36
there'll be different flavors depending on whether it's a Republican or whether a Democrat a Democrat all an all
01:00:41
rationalized it's it's all but so then what I'm saying is that's my point this abstraction though doesn't solve what's
01:00:48
happening now because this free money is in the system it's constantly in the system it comes in different wavs so
01:00:54
people should feel better the that they don't in the face of this constant Money
01:00:58
Train y I think is actually quite alarming this is I think what the point is which is we are economically in a
01:01:05
very complicated moment in the sense that there is no pandemic to blame there's no economy that's totally shut
01:01:11
down in fact there's an economy that seems to be moving but leaving an enormous number of people behind so
01:01:17
however it has been structured just sitting here today in 2024 it's broken for more people than
01:01:23
it's working for yeah Trump just to give facts Trump will have spent 7.8 trillion
01:01:28
Biden will spend slightly less like 6.x trillion at the end of these things they're both going to have added you're
01:01:33
missing the fact that Trump had 2020 with when we had the covid depression or what what could have been when the
01:01:41
econ year over year yeah and a terribly time tax did you guys see hold on a second let me just make this one point
01:01:49
just because both parties have been irresponsible in spending doesn't mean that we can't make further judgment
01:01:56
about who's been worse sure what's happened in the Biden Administration is just quantitatively worse well no
01:02:02
quantitatively Trump spent more but you're saying qualitatively Biden's is worse because he didn't need to there
01:02:08
was no crisis right okay so one spent more one spent less but one didn't need to and one abs look at look at Trump's
01:02:15
spending before Co look at Trump's spending before covid it was like a 5% bump on Obama spending well the the tax
01:02:22
break was the one that that accounted for a lot of yeah but anyway we can sit here and debate Trump versus Biden let's
01:02:29
talk about my balls boys yeah we're wasting time here wasting time on Trump and Biden when we could be talking my B
01:02:36
if we're gonna talk about our balls we need to go to somebody who's an expert on our testicles
01:02:44
freeberg let's go right to science Corner let's talk about our balls with the Sultan of science there's been a
01:02:53
study on phalates our balls and plastic in our balls free bark te this up yeah the consumer reports put out a really
01:03:00
interesting or what has become pretty widely covered now story a couple weeks ago where they measured phalates in
01:03:07
common foods and Nick if you want to just pull up the image that's been repeated in a lot of media a lot of
01:03:12
press people were going nuts over this phalates are these chemical compounds that are used in Plastics or used with
01:03:19
plastics to soften them so when you make Plastics you can kind of you know make them softer and form them into Al to
01:03:25
different shapes and use them for different applications like plastic bags or wraps or tubes or all sorts of things
01:03:32
and uh theats are these kind of smaller molecules that that kind of go along with the polymers that that are the
01:03:39
basis of the Plastics and they measured phalates which are known to be toxic in terms of if you get enough of them they
01:03:45
can be carcinogenic and cause cancer and they show that every product they tested had phalates in it wend
01:03:53
these chicken nuggets had you know 33,00 nanog per serving if you scroll up to the top look at the wait look at the
01:04:00
Chipotle chicken burrito oh my God right and just to be clear guys this is not just about packaging packaging plays a
01:04:07
role but the whole food supply chain the way we wrap food all of our water all of
01:04:13
our dust all of the air we breathe we have measured theats in everything so these phalates end up in the animals
01:04:20
that are used to make milk and the animals that people eat they end up in the water that goes into the vegetables
01:04:25
that we grow in the ground they end up being used to make the little plastic jars that we feed our kids out of the
01:04:30
little yogurt pouches that our kids drink out of everything all just to move food around in plastic packaging free B
01:04:37
freeberg why would the chicken nuggets from Wendy's though be so is it because they are eating they are eating things
01:04:44
that have Plastics in them Plastics in them but but we also don't know and so we're eating the chicken so we're eating
01:04:50
the plastic we're eating the plastic and it's also the fact that the way that they process the chicken and the
01:04:54
material that they use and the pack they from you gots are chicken breast that put in the and then the has has you
01:05:04
know the oil is transported in plastic we don't know so it's plastic all the way down at this these are the things
01:05:11
like look at Annie's I first of all I really dislike Annie's labeling and pack packaging I think it's very ugly so I've
01:05:18
never bought it for that reason but I know that there's a lot of private Equity moms that buy anies because it's
01:05:23
supposed to be better keep going this is a point hold on Jamal's making a really good point go
01:05:30
ahead Jamal this is really good and so the problem is you see organic when you go like we again we go to drers that's
01:05:37
typically where we go sometimes we go to Whole Foods but we go to drers and sagonas that's the places we go to in
01:05:41
our neighborhood and when you go and you look at these things like prepared meals
01:05:45
as an example the thing that has always attracted me to Annie's is because it is
01:05:51
positioned as it is cleaner and better for you and you see everybody buying it and what you actually see sitting on the
01:05:58
shelf that's left over is actually the chef boy Rd and the Campell and I always thought to myself I won't buy anies
01:06:05
because I actually don't like the label to be honest that was like that was really why I did just deeply dislike the
01:06:11
packaging but it turns out it's the absolute worst for you yeah it is and and let me just tell you guys let me
01:06:16
tell you guys some stats about this so we produced about three million tons of thights a year creating them that we use
01:06:22
in our industrial supply chain the global market for thights is about billion per year we find it everywhere
01:06:28
in our tap water as measured in the US in multiple places there's about one microgram so those were nanograms so you
01:06:36
kind of divide it by a thousand so that Annie thing has 50 micrograms of Daylights in it but there's about one
01:06:41
microgram of phalates per liter of water that you're drinking now here's um a study was done out of Germany where they
01:06:48
basically tried to estimate how much people were consuming and on average people consume or ingest about
01:06:56
micrograms of phalates per kilogram of your body weight per day so an adult male is is consuming about 500
01:07:02
micrograms of phalates per day that's half a gram per day and the human body metabolizes and excretes it it comes out
01:07:10
the EPA all of the administrative like agencies that oversee this stuff they're like it's okay we metabolize it as long
01:07:16
as we don't consume more than we can metabolize it's going to be safe because it's not going to stay in our bodies
01:07:21
it's going to was out here's the problem while it's in your body while while it's
01:07:25
moving through your body being metabolized it is what's called an endocrine disruptor and we talked about
01:07:30
this in the past with respect to the sunscreens these phalates actually interfere with the hormones that are
01:07:36
made by things like your pituitary gland your thyroid and even some of the hormones that are produced in testicle
01:07:43
cells there was another study done that really tried to estimate what the impact
01:07:48
was and here is a study that showed how do phalates actually interact with different parts of the endocrine system
01:07:57
and they went through and they found all these places that biological hormones and the endocrine system are disrupted
01:08:05
by the phalates and and we'll put credit for everyone um that that that shared these papers here later and they
01:08:12
basically showed the mechanism by which the phalates are actually disrupting endocrine systems now what is the
01:08:21
endocrine system we've talked about endocrine disruptors in the past the endocrine system is the interaction of
01:08:26
hormones with cells in your body produced by all these different glands in your body like your thyroid your
01:08:31
pituitary gland and so on controls things like growth tissue development reproductive tissue activity like making
01:08:37
sperm cells autonomic function like body temperature blood pressure sleep heart rate regulation injury and stress
01:08:44
response your mood all of those things are regulated by your endocrine system and so when the the the hormones or the
01:08:50
proteins or peptides that are made by those glands are disrupted by these phalates it can actually dis disrupt
01:08:55
those systems and mess them up so while we're not consuming generally speaking enough phalates to cause cancer and
01:09:02
therefore we all say hey it's okay these phades aren't that bad we're not going to all die from cancer the truth is
01:09:08
there is demonstrations now on how they can actually disrupt the activity of your endocrine system and as a result
01:09:14
have all of these dilus effects another study done on 125 men out of China this this paper was done out of
01:09:21
China they saw damage to testicle cells that would die testicle cells that would
01:09:28
produce fewer sperm and then testicle cells that produced sperm with extra nuclei and they actually demonstrated
01:09:34
this in rats so the set of compounds can be fairly disruptive so now we'll go to
01:09:40
the next story right and the next story is the one that everyone's writing about
01:09:43
which is oh my God there's plastic and balls so a team at University of New Mexico that was published in the Journal
01:09:48
of toxicological Sciences just last week they took 47 neuter dogs testicles from
01:09:54
a local pet CL where they were getting neutered and they found on average 128 microG per of microplastics in those
01:10:03
testicles and it was mostly you know polyvinyl chloride or one of the the main Plastics and polyethylene and again
01:10:10
phalates leech out of these Plastics and leech into the cells and then they went
01:10:14
to the medical investigator's office and they found these uh the testicles that were frozen for seven years because when
01:10:20
they do a medical investigation and they keep all the body parts they keep them on ice and then they throw them away
01:10:24
after seven years years so before they threw them away they got permission of humans they got permission to use these
01:10:29
testicles to figure out are they Plastics and they measured them in the Frozen balls in the Frozen balls these
01:10:36
are ancient Frozen balls how old are these balls 23 Frozen balls about seven years old okay seven-year-old balls
01:10:42
Frozen Wait are people donating their balls to science is that how no it's like when there's like a homicide or
01:10:48
someone and or you don't know who died or there's an investigation into why someone died the the corner the corner
01:10:54
keeps the body parts in case it's needed for a like a police case later as stay on the record I don't want my balls used
01:11:01
that way okay you don't have the Frozen balls on your driver's license like freeze my balls they asked me to store
01:11:08
my balls I think said you got such huge balls anyway they got 23 23 of these these balls from these bodies and they
01:11:15
found um Plastics on average 328 micrograms per gram of of testicle in in these balls what you
01:11:25
usually find free BG what do you usually find in these balls well we don't we don't know because we've never taken
01:11:30
human tissue and tried to take it apart in a very detailed way to figure out like how much plastic is there you know
01:11:36
what is it doing to our body but now I just want to connect the dots so now we have a sense that there's these states
01:11:41
and these other compounds that come with plastics that leak in that cause all this disruption separately we're seeing
01:11:46
this accumulation of these little plastic particles and remember Plastics are polymers they're long chains of
01:11:52
monomers and so they can be short chains they can be long so they break apart break apart break apart and little tiny
01:11:57
bits of them end up and they're very hard to metabolize and they sit in your tissue and then they can cause all this
01:12:03
disruption so you know I think these are like generally I'm just gonna say it I'm
01:12:08
just first of all I really appreciate that you did this I think it's so important we talked about microplastics
01:12:13
a little bit ago you know jcal moved his whole family away I guess a few years ago from Plastics I've started to do it
01:12:20
four or five months ago after you can't get away from it it is everywhere supply
01:12:25
chain is your point it's a it's in the water it's in the air it's everywhere this is what I was going to say I think
01:12:30
our food supply I think we should just say it out loud is totally corrupted and I think there's all of these other
01:12:37
factors we look at the rise in the use of ssris the lack of sexual function in young men the lack of sex the low birth
01:12:47
rate I think these are all related and part of it is the food supply and part of the food supply problem is a fact
01:12:55
that it is corrupted by these materials that should never be in our body I want to just push back on this because I I
01:13:00
don't want Li that's a guess but I honestly think it's a truth I don't want to limit it I don't want to limit it to
01:13:05
the food supply because here's the other thing all of us are wearing clothes that
01:13:09
use polymers which are Plastics all of us are sitting at desks that have Coatings of polymers on them all of us
01:13:15
have iPhones that use polymers all of us drive cars and the rubber one of the ways that they found that uh plastic
01:13:23
these microp particles are getting in the air is through tires when we drive little particulates end up in the
01:13:28
atmosphere we breathe them in and then they end up in our body every part of our industrial supply chain uses
01:13:35
polymers every part of our industrial supply chain hear you but the concentration I'm going to guess that
01:13:39
the concentration when you actually put it in your body and then your intestines
01:13:44
and your organs are bathed in this stuff I'm going to guess that the food supply has a huge part to do with this
01:13:53
yeah but when you're let's say you take let's say you're wearing a clothing almost all of our clothes now many of
01:13:58
our clothes have polymers in them we put it in the washing machine it ends up in
01:14:01
the water supply chain we consume that water I it's very hard to say that there's a specific action our whole
01:14:07
system has been inundated with these lower cost let me say it in a way that maybe you will agree with then we need
01:14:15
to fix something my starting point would be the food supply yeah where do you start yeah water yeah my big my big
01:14:22
takeaway is is sort of like yours which is almost impossible to alter this industry overnight given how ubiquitous
01:14:26
these compounds are and everything we do and touch tires phones clothing Etc but
01:14:32
I think that this is going to trigger and is the beginning of a wave I'm noticing that a lot of folks are going
01:14:37
to start to pay attention in the food industry and start to figure out ways to represent low plastic low phalate food
01:14:46
products as a way to kind of sell a more premium solution I think that's been the
01:14:50
trend historically with the food industry chth is to respond to your ask right now and to then show up with with
01:14:56
solution so I do think that that's and and just just taking a step back we don't have to use these these
01:15:04
are all based on fossil fuel so the way we make Plastics is we basically pull oil out of the ground and we turn it
01:15:09
into these polymers That's the basis of this chemical industry we don't have to do that with the same function we can
01:15:16
get the same function from what are called bioplastics so these can these are compounds that can actually be much
01:15:21
more biodegradable that are made with biological systems and not made from oil using synthetic chemical systems so I do
01:15:28
think that there's a really big opportunity for for a wave of bioplastic Alternatives given that this
01:15:35
is now becoming a little bit more obvious to folks that there is this kind of systemic problem that this is
01:15:42
ubiquitous and that we do need to kind of address it okay so just zooming out here for a minute you talked about the
01:15:47
phalates but what about the Bas freeberg the study on the Bas let me play in what are the both Jason both
01:15:56
these nuts well done that was really well done that was really really well done you
01:16:08
[ __ ] you nail up before the show I was like what is BAS B that's awesome why not to start
01:16:21
laughing before you deliver the joke next time oh my God where's the air horn Nick play the air horn no no okay let's
01:16:28
get serious here for a second I have a real question part of the thing that I think is broken is that I think
01:16:33
somewhere along the way we got screwed up in how food is labeled right and we and then it was it was gamed effectively
01:16:40
right so for for years even when I was growing up I thought you should not buy food that had that was high in fat as an
01:16:47
example and little did I know I was ingesting all these sugars as a substitute to Fat it was a total
01:16:52
mistake does the labeling to become simpler and focus on these things that are just fundamentally carcinogenic for
01:16:59
us one two are there like lawsuits that need to happen Allah cigarettes where you kind of connect the dots between
01:17:07
these phalates and and a bunch of these diseases because it just seems like we are people have thrown their hands in
01:17:14
the air for years right some people say autism and diet are correlated right other people so there there you know
01:17:20
Crohn's the rise of Crohns there's so many of these conditions that there is a cohort of people that
01:17:27
attribute most of the reason the pathology of the disease exists to food so what do we do or pesticides right
01:17:35
yeah that was in there too is that your actual office behind you or is that a background Jam that's my office yeah
01:17:41
yeah so like every one of those books is coded in some of these compounds no these are phade free because these are
01:17:49
from the 1400s they didn't have that back then okay good all right well everything else that the desk is made of
01:17:56
all of those collector items yeah these are collector's items bro these are these are from an era where that stuff
01:18:02
didn't exist and you're you're you're pure I'm assuming you're you're you're wearing a pure baby wool sweater which
01:18:07
doesn't have any polymers it's baby casm yeah but I think what's what what's what's overwhelming about biodegradable
01:18:14
right I think I think baby Catherine is biodegradable it is what's overwhelming about this problem is the ubiquity of
01:18:20
the problem it's almost like asking tell me everywhere that carbon is used like imagine if you had to label every no I
01:18:28
I'm trying I'm trying to hone you into this one area that I actually I I get the tires and the this and the that I'm
01:18:33
trying to get to something that I fundamentally care about I have young children I feed them food every day I
01:18:39
don't trust my food supply I've never really trusted it and this kind of stuff adds to this body of evidence where I'm
01:18:47
worried that if my kids go through some kind of an issue at the core of it will actually be
01:18:52
something dietary and it's typically overlooked by modern medicine because you'll treat it symic you'll try to give
01:18:59
it some kind of pill it's not how you treat a lot of these things it could turn out where I think restructuring
01:19:07
someone's diet can actually have an enormous impact so I'm just trying to figure out what is something that we can
01:19:11
all start to do to get a handle on this because you're putting food in your body
01:19:16
every day yeah it seems like you're saying it's it's um helpless here freeberg there's nothing we can do and I
01:19:23
think what jamath and I are saying asking you is like where do we start how can we start to get off of plastics I
01:19:29
think we got to go into the source so biopolymers are made by living organisms they're they're typically longer chains
01:19:37
of what are more like sugar molecules and they can be used in a similar way that we're they're not going to be as
01:19:43
good as synthetic polymers that we use today so a lot of our applications a lot of our industry would have to be rebuilt
01:19:49
if we really wanted to go back to redesign the whole system but we got to redesign the whole system we're making
01:19:55
everything out of these products because they're cheap and because we can pull oil out of the ground and turn it into
01:20:00
cheap stuff and then it makes things affordable for everyone on Earth and that's how this industry emerged you
01:20:05
know it was not like some someone randomly came along and said let's put Plastics and everything because it's
01:20:10
going to be good for people it was a way to make products more accessible and more available and cheaper and it's
01:20:15
everywhere um and so I think there's this real question of like what industrial synthetic chemistries do we
01:20:21
use today as a species that we should rethink using and start at that level and then rebuild from there and I think
01:20:28
shining a light on this stuff and just talking about what these products are find I think that's L latory but too
01:20:34
complicated I want something simpler which is like can we get a law passed so that chickens cannot eat certain kinds
01:20:41
of food that are known to be high in phalates yeah and here's an idea look at this chth like look at this banana like
01:20:47
I just as a news flash a banana already has a wrapper it's called the peel and then people are wrapping Plastics on
01:20:53
this stuff like I think consumers need to demand that like why you take a picture of a banana why did you take a
01:20:59
picture of a banana I found that on the internet I didn't actually take it myself okay I thought you were like
01:21:04
sitting at the store photographing ban you know when you see this kind of packaging this is what has made me nuts
01:21:10
in my life is all this crazy packaging going on and in Europe you are required at the supermarket and people do this
01:21:17
when they get to the end of the counter they take the packaging off the supermarket has to take the packaging
01:21:22
right so they have to bear the burden of it so if you get a tube a toothpaste you
01:21:25
can take the packaging off and hand them the thing other places are now saying hey if you're coming for peanut butter
01:21:31
or grains or flour or sugar they have a barrel of sugar they put it in a brown bag and and you get this like more clean
01:21:38
experience I think we have to have like both ends of this the supply chain but also consumers there's a there's like a
01:21:43
marketing I want my bananas to come with packaging on them you do you want fingerprints I don't want anyone's
01:21:49
fingerprints Banas you don't eat the peel but brother you don't eat the peel yeah but it's I
01:21:55
could touch it I haven't we haven't bought water bottles I want everything to come in hermetically sealed plastic
01:22:03
yeah but then how many people in your house handle your banana pause whoa whoa she ask him how many people in his house
01:22:09
handled his banana oh no Diddy no but the re the real issue is not that it's like when the girls in your family have
01:22:17
puberty younger and younger and you're like why is that happening or inconsistent periods or when the boys go
01:22:23
through these weird you know moments where they're like not really growing was Tik Tok no I'm I'm just telling you
01:22:29
like there's so many things that we have to panic about it's hard to to your point it's hard to attribute yeah to one
01:22:36
thing yeah but I think I think the I think the thing that everybody could get get focused on is how can you correct at
01:22:41
least the marketing versus the reality in our food supply you know a different example I remember Nat telling me
01:22:47
something which was along the lines of like hormone free is something that's marketed but like chickens have been
01:22:52
hormone free since the 50s but it's like there's some latent hormones left inside
01:22:58
of them and then some of the feed is is really poorly constructed and you should
01:23:04
be focused on like air chilled versus water chilled or whatever there's just so much [ __ ] out
01:23:10
there and so I think it's hard if you're like trying to take care of your family
01:23:15
sense of it all yeah makes sense of it all it's just like it I think everyone everyone feels helpless and everyone
01:23:19
wants to Gras I find this super frustrating because it's something that I I really care about my like what I eat
01:23:25
right totally and it came from a place where a lot of disease in my family and then I was overweight when I was young
01:23:32
and so I just want to kind of like tow a no I mean you eatle imposs you if you're
01:23:37
eating know Jason but but my my takeaway is there's going to be a lot of phalates
01:23:43
in my balls yes absolutely despite all the stuff that I do I'm no better off than somebody eating at Wendy's in the
01:23:50
end of the day and I feel like well what is all that time and expense and difficulty yeah is is it's not worth it
01:23:57
well there's other health benefits to it of course and there's environmental benefits but I you know we went all
01:24:02
glass bottles as I told you and you know then I find out that some of the cans we
01:24:06
have because it's a couple of things we like like certain natural sodas they got
01:24:10
plastic on the inside of the aluminum on theide exactly I'm like I thought I was
01:24:13
doing the right thing here by going aluminum can plastic on the inside exactly so the
01:24:18
moral of the story is don't try to do the right thing I mean I don't know but anyway I just want to I think this stuff
01:24:25
is unavoidable I really do that's why I'm not worri about I think I think I think you're right and I think that's
01:24:31
why you see all of these kinds of diseases these chronic and acute conditions just ticking up tick tick
01:24:38
tick tick tick tick tick it's uh well anyway I think this was a fascinating science corner and uh I I I um I took a
01:24:46
screenshot of saxs during it this is Sax's interest level you can always tell how good it
01:24:51
is no look I thought I thought this was a science corner I could finally use you
01:24:57
know absolutely yeah they they actually checked Sax's balls for the Plastics and
01:25:02
all they found were steel so there it is there you go yeah it's just brass balls
01:25:07
going around the horn here what's your favorite balls in pop culture for me it's got to be idiocracy I love have you
01:25:15
guys seen Idiocracy in Mike judge's film I haven't seen it okay so in the film I'll just cue this up Society has gone
01:25:22
to the lowest possible IQ everybody's got an adiq and like people like a reality TV star is running the country
01:25:29
into the ground that's what he has in Idiocracy and the number one television show is essentially a Tik Tok called
01:25:38
ouch my balls here it is oh [ __ ] the wall it's basically the number one television show in this Society this
01:26:03
dystopian Society where all the crops have died and they don't know how to make crops
01:26:10
anymore is ouch my balls it's just a super cut of a guy getting kicked in the nuts saak what's your favorite ball
01:26:17
moment in pop culture agree Glenn Ross all right here it is folks this is this these that's like Baldwin yeah freeberg
01:26:26
you got a favorite ball clip from pop culture for yourself that tickles you no chop you got one I'm gonna find one you
01:26:35
got one okay everybody this has been a spectacular episode of the world's number one podcast it's episode 180 of
01:26:47
the all-in podcast with you again for the Sultan of science David Friedberg David
01:26:57
Sachs there's a compilation of YouTube on YouTube of all these Austin Powers moments of Austin Powers getting kicked
01:27:04
in the balls yeah babies and we'll see you all at The Summit in September byebye love you Bo
01:27:15
byebye let your winners ride Rainman David and instead we open Source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy
01:27:26
with it queen [Music] of Besties [Music] are my dog Tak [Music] driveway oh man we should all just get a room and
01:27:47
just have one big huge orgy cuz they're all this useless it's like this like sexual tension but they just need to
01:27:52
release somehow [Music] we need to get mer [Music] our I'm going and now the plugs the all-in
01:28:13
Summit is taking place in Los Angeles on September 8th through the 10th you can apply for a ticket at summit. Allin
01:28:21
podcast.co scholarships will be coming soon you can actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube
01:28:29
youtube.com/ Allin or just search Allin podcast and hit the alert Bell and you'll get updates when we post and
01:28:36
we're going to do a party in Vegas my understanding when we hit a million subscribers so look for that as well you
01:28:42
can follow us on xx.com thee all inpod Tik Tok is allore inor talk Instagram the all-in Pod and on LinkedIn just
01:28:52
search for the Allin podcast you can follow chth x.com chth and you can sign up for a substack at cho. substack
01:29:00
do.com I do freeberg can be followed at x.com freeberg and ohal is hiring click on the careers page at ohal genetics.com
01:29:08
and you can follow sax x.com David saxs saxs recently spoke at the American moment conference and people are going
01:29:16
crazy for it it's pinned to his tweet on his X profile I'm Jason kakanis I amx.com Jason and if you want to see
01:29:23
pictures of my bulldog dogs and the food I'm eating go to instagram.com Jason inth firstname Club you can listen to my
01:29:30
other podcasts this week in startups just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player we are hiring a
01:29:35
researcher apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick working in data and
01:29:42
Science and being able to do great research Finance Etc all in podcast.co research it's a full-time job working
01:29:49
with us the besties and really excited about my investment in Athena go go to Athena wow Athena wow.com and get
01:29:58
yourself a bit of a discount from your boy jcal Athena wow.com we'll see you all next time on the Allin podcast