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so saks are we gonna talk with each other today or you know or he's an iso player he turned into an iso player he's
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like the carmelo anthony of this he's the carmelo anthony of the all-in pod sack you want to pass the ball or you
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just want to you want to clank it off the room raymond clay i mean we should have a focus on having a dialogue with
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each other today several points in the thing as opposed to all standing up saying our piece and then hopping we
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lost a little bit of the fiber of this team here there's three people playing as a team and then they're sacks i would
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love to ask you questions and i would love to see my job the ball jay cal you're the guard you pass the ball i'm
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supposed to score oh really remember what uh shaq used to say when he wasn't getting the ball he gets really unhappy
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he said pass the ball to the big dog he'll score yeah i'm shaq you know you're not kobe who is the
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shitty yeah you're derek fisher make sure that big dog gets the ball there won't be any
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problems i'm bob cousy okay i'm gary payton in this okay [Music] [Music] hey everybody welcome to the all in
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podcast where three besties talk about a range of talking topics and one monologues about biden derangement
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syndrome with you again this week the sultan of science and the dictator parliamentaria
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and playing iso ball somewhere in the wing is uh your political commentator junior
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projection david sacks it's an act of projection which sacks is gonna lose his mind over
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he's got two monologues prepared justin trudeau has invoked an emergency order to freeze bank accounts linked to
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trucker protests in canada on monday trudeau invoked an emergency law that requires financial institutions in
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canada to examine customer records and take action against people involved with or aiding in the
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protest here's trudeau's tweet from yesterday if you're watching on the video streams illegal blockades and
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occupations are not peaceful protests they're a threat to jobs and communities and they cannot continue in the house of
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commons earlier today i joined members of the parliament to speak about that and about the need to invoke the
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emergencies act the counter signal which is a right-leaning canadian digital publication reported that 34 different
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crypto wallets were also being targeted by canadian officials this law grants the government
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extraordinary powers like the right to ban public assembly in certain locations the canadian civil liberties association
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said it planned to challenge the government's decision in court uh remember sax wrote a piece
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on financial d platforming for barrio ice's common sense about a year ago the piece was about the private sector
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financial platforms de-platforming folks uh so your thoughts sacks you have 90 seconds on the uninterrupted clock
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on the shot clock all right thank you jay kelly it's true last summer i wrote a piece for barry weiss's sub stack
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talking about how financial d platform would be the next wave of online censorship and here we are it's actually
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happened what i could not have predicted is that it would occur in our mild mannered neighbor to the
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north and that the reprisals would be directed by the government itself not just a consortium of private actors and
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what trudeau has done is he didn't just employ the emergency act against the trucker so that he could basically
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arrest them and break up the protest they have now directed banks and any financial institution even
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cryptocurrency wallets to freeze the accounts not just to the truckers but anybody who's contributed to them
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basically anyone's contributed 25 or more um there were two uh crowdfunding sites that they raised money from all
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those people the thousands of disordinary canadians who did nothing more than contribute to an
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anti-government protest they are now at risk of financial rune because their bank accounts have been frozen
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and you have to wonder what what is the ends here that justifies the means covid you know omicron is on the lane
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it's on its way out at the same time that trudeau was announcing these dictatorial measures
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uh ford the the guy who runs uh ontario the largest province 15 seconds ford was out there saying that he was
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gonna uh that coveted mandates were gonna be over so why exactly are they doing this
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you know we're at the end of covet and um zach let me ask you a question if um if there were people online making
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donations to the criminals who loot and kill people in san francisco which you've railed against being criminals
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who are breaking the law and should all be put behind bars do you think that it would be appropriate in that context for
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the government to block their donations to supporting criminal activity in a criminal ring
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um you know that i think we all agree uh you know shouldn't be transpiring well but but your the implication there
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is that truckers are using violence or or something like that and they're not i mean it's been it's been largely a
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peaceful protest it's been very annoying to people who you know but isn't the case being made that they are actually
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breaking the law by blocking streets and that's not you know there's a peaceful protest where you can go and get a
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permit and actually go in a public zone and peacefully protest within the con the confines of the law and what's
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allowed in that jurisdiction look but what these folks are doing is civil disobedience which is not a peaceful
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protest it is you know kind of breaking the law to make a point it is peaceful because there's been no violence if you
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look at actually but they're breaking those they're breaking the law right well let me let me ask the question for
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freeberg then um sex if a group of truckers were shutting down the bay bridge with three lanes of
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traffic and then shut down the 280 and the 101 and it impacted this if they in fact are shutting down roads
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emergency businesses and our emergencies can't get through would you want them to
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be towed would you want their cars to be towed listen here here's the thing the ambassador bridge this vital choke point
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of commerce between the u.s and canada that was blocked and that was creating a serious problem but it had already been
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cleared on monday by the time that trudeau invoked the emergencies act and then on tuesday he then invokes this
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financial act your opinion sacks if they if they block roads and bridges would you if they're in charge yeah if
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they're breaking the law in that way it's not just one lane it's all three lanes damage is society i'm just trying
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to understand the the standard here because just zooming out to last year and the
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year before right there was a protest happening with blm and those blm protests resulted in damage to private
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uh property uh to burning cars there were protests at the capitol that involved folks trespassing into
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federal land and federal buildings and now there's protests that are uh you know blocking vital trade routes and you
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know access to emergency vehicles and all this sort of stuff to me and also you know people in san francisco
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breaking the law and not being put in jail my personal opinion is anyone that's breaking the law we should stop
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them from breaking the law and anyone that wants to kind of you know follow a peaceful protest or make a point should
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kind of make the point but if the law is the law shouldn't there be a universal standard to hold up the law and if the
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case and if the case is people are giving money to aid in breaking the law shouldn't we
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stop the hold on you know transmission go hold on hold on a second look i think you're conflating a bunch of really
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important things there aiding and abetting criminals uh is already illegal there are rico
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statutes that um allow the authorities to go after people that are aiding and abetting
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through monetary support criminal behavior separately there is a whole body of law
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at the federal state local level that allows you to deal with protests okay the real question is why did you
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have to go and invoke emergency powers at the tail end of a pandemic for what is effectively
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non-violent protests again that's the key question right so just to give you some canadian history
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uh as a canadian citizen what i can tell you is that we've invoked this emergency
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powers act three times in the past the first was for world war ii the second sorry world war one the
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second was for world war ii and the third was the flq crisis which was a domestic terrorist organization in
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quebec that was fighting for a separate homeland that's those are the three other times
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in the past that a sitting prime minister has invoked these broad sweeping emergency powers and they did
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it because you exhaust the natural body of law and the constitution and the bill
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of you know the charter of rights that governs the normal behavior of a democratic
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society what this was is not any of those things i don't think anybody could claim that a
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bunch of non-violent protests yes they were annoying yes they basically you know stop some commerce but i don't
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think it was on the order of world war one world war ii or a domestic terrorism issue like the flq crisis so why invoke
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this basically get out of jail free card where you can behave without any checks
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and balance this is the confounding hold on a second did we exhaust the current body of normal governing law
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and if we didn't why is this example okay and the counterfactuals are so many imagine trump invoked this thing during
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blm imagine biden did this right now right you would be up in arms i think that's
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well said let me just add something to that the emergencies act that trudeau invoked requires something like an act
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of espionage against the country or syria the word serious violence or in the law or the threat of serious
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violence those conditions were simply not met yeah and then on top of that to go after
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people who contribute as little as 25 to these truckers who are trying to support
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them because these guys are not making any money you know there could they have very they're living under very harsh
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conditions so you make a small check you write a small donation to support these
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people to aid them they're simple working-class people who are protesting for normalcy and get their freedom back
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and now all of a sudden your bank account gets frozen it is basically creating a it's gonna have a chilling effect
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because it's essentially creating a cast of untouchables because no one is going
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to want to associate with transact with or donate to this group of people these designated people now under the
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emergencies act who your bank account can get frozen if you deal with that i think it's going to have the opposite
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effect i think this is going to blow up in trudeau's face this is the worst decision making by any major political
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leader in a long time to go after a group of people as champa said in the in the waning days of a pandemic what is
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the point why are we picking this or why is he picking this guy up so why makes no sense but why is he doing it and
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jamal why why did the police not break so i totally hear your point why did the police not break up these protests why
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did he need to invoke the emergency because look it happened i think that the police in some cases
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did in some cases didn't there were probably a lot of police sympathizers there were probably a lot of
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sympathizers in general as there were a lot of people who were detractors oh you
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think the police you're saying there were police that were complicit it's the nature of a protest you have people for
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you have people against but the point is i think what's really clear is justin trudeau
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first basically said these people are racists and misogynists then he said they just hold views that
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are just unacceptable to me and then like a totalitarian dictator invoked an emergency measures act that
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allows him to do what he wants that's the fact pattern he painted himself into a political corner and then
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tried to give successfully he gave himself absolute power for some period of time
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and the real question i think is why should this be allowed to happen in a democratic country with democratic norms
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against people that haven't done as far as i can tell a shred of violent behavior
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no it hasn't been you guys and where it's clear that the body of normal governing law
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hasn't been exhausted yet meaning the minute that these people were asked to actually empty the ambassador bridge
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they did guys we're canadians that's what we do yes we love to pronounce but if you just ask us super nice exactly no
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you're right trudeau never tried talking to them i mean why wouldn't he just try
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and talk why wouldn't he just try and negotiate with them instead he demonized them right all that bad as white
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supremacists and nazis and even you know confederates or which i don't even understand in the context of canada
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this is yet another example of the dying death right in front of us of the woke playbook right we talked about this last
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week i think it's related to the san francisco board of ed recall that's now national and probably even international
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news the the the reaction to rogan the reaction to dave chappelle it's all part and parcel of this thing where people up
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and down the spectrum have learned what the mechanism of action is of this cancer culture and
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they don't fall for it anymore there's a person that's able to escalate it because he's actually in a seat of
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power and that's what i think people should be debating you mean shutting down dissenting voices from a position
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of power just because and he went unnecessarily he went on the record and he said
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guys these views are unacceptable to me well in a democratic society that's not your choice
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yeah not your choice justin i mean and i could have engaged with views on all kinds of topics all the time
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unacceptable is not the threshold of world war ii world war one in the flq crisis do you
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guys think that there's a moment here that also is a mile marker on the road towards the state versus crypto given
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the actions that we're taking against bitcoin wallets because that seems to be like a big trend that's going to play
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out over the next decade or two they're there inevitably crypto is the threat to the state right and so you
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know you're going to see skirmishes like this that kind of you know hey wallets that donate are illegal and you
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know free break this is one of the best points you've made if you look at what this has done to bitcoin and you look at
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what it's done for other cryptocurrencies this will do more than mcdonald's accepting bitcoin because
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this is the first time like a western democratic state is seizing people's funds like in an incredibly unfair
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unnecessary way which is just going to have more people say you know what maybe i should keep some of my net worth out
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of the government's purview if they're going to seize it anyway and then now people are going to start looking into
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the coins that allow people to can't conflate having an enemy with having a different view
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these aren't the same thing having an enemy is a serious deal right whether that's domestic or international
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that's what we had to do in world war one world war ii in the flq crisis this is just somebody who has a different
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opinion i don't agree in mass mandates is what one person says i want a mass mandate is what the other person says
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the idea that you can deplatform one or the other or fire them from their job or
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prevent them from having access to the money that they've earned or preventing other people from donating money
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that's really um it's a really low bar and i think when you normalize this kind of behavior it's a very slippery slope
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and so if if somebody else were to do it they now have like it's again going back
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to the rene gerard sort of philosophical discussion from last week one of the things uh about you know
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these stoning rituals right that sacks talked about that we talked about last week one of
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the things that rene gerard talks about is it is always hardest for that first person
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right the first person that throws the stone right that's how jesus was able to defuse that
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that incident as described in the book of john but in a different example the first person that throws a stone all of
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a sudden normalizes it for everybody else after them and then these stonings become commonplace or became commonplace
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so similarly it's like if you're a sitting democratic person who just decides this doesn't work for you
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you can't flip the script and and basically remove everybody's democratic rights that's really
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crazy it's actually at a closing point you want to make well okay just on this point about
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bitcoin the the reason why bitcoin is necessary is because the tactics that trudeau is using is essentially to
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starve these truckers out to not only basically arrest them and but he's also taking away their insurance licenses
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he's basically preventing them from ever working again he's talked about that we're gonna put give you a criminal
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record it's gonna make it hard for you to get a job and then most importantly on top of that
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he's preventing anyone from helping them by contributing to them by making a donation so he's essentially starving
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these guys out and that's the reason why bitcoin is potentially helpful is it allows people using non-custodial
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wallets to make an unrun around that and donate and help these these people who are being persecuted essentially i mean
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he could have just simply chosen to do what sax's favorite president obama did with occupy wall street which is say
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great you have something you want to voice here's where you can do it just you know no guns no violence but we let
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how long did occupy wall street last in downtown wall street and in oakland and other places like a year or two and you
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just wait them out and that's it i think when you encounter a sincere protest movement the first thing you should do
00:17:22
as leaders actually listen and try to understand what it is that they're protesting on behalf of and trudeau
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never did that he went straight to 11 with this and i think part of the reason why i mean jk you asked why why is it
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that that you know there seems to be a common denominator with this and with the ukraine issue
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that the leaders are immediately escalating these situations instead of looking for a way to de-escalate it and
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they're doing it with the media egging them on and so as as harsh as trudeau's rhetoric has been the media's rhetoric
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around this has been even worse you have this cnn contributor juliette kyam who's
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also a harvard professor who basically tweeted that trudeau needed to slash their tires empty the
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gas tanks arrest the drivers you know making it unclear how you'd never get the trucks off the bridge uh but then
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she said cancel their insurance suspend their driver's license prohibit any future regulatory verification
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uh she says trust me i will not run out of ways to make this hurt you know it's you have the media
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cheering this on egging on trudeau they're doing the same thing beating the drums of war on ukraine what is wrong
00:18:29
with these people yeah de-escalate and where's the off-ramp i think the biggest the biggest
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story is this um this bitcoin thing because you know if you guys think about like
00:18:40
pre-1960s like capital wasn't digitized it was like physical like you had to own like a stock
00:18:46
certificate or cash or gold or a bearer bond to today everything is digitized right
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like there's a digital record of you know who owns what stock and who how much is in your bank account and none of
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it is tied to your having a physical asset and ultimately the law was able to reach
00:19:03
into these digital systems and have greater um uh oversight and ultimately control uh
00:19:10
you know over accounts and so on and it's had a you know the digitization of capital assets has had an incredible
00:19:15
ability to drive economic growth and investment and ease of transaction but it's also significantly increased the
00:19:21
centralization of assets or the central influence over assets bitcoin seems to be the resolution to
00:19:28
that and now you're seeing the ultimate challenge to bitcoin and the challenge to decentralized systems like bitcoin
00:19:35
and cryptocurrencies and so on i don't want to speak specifically to anyone but there seems to be like this trend line
00:19:40
over the last 60 years that's now being challenged because you could have your accounts frozen any moment um you know
00:19:47
for breaking the law or because emergency acts are are induced and i think you're right it's probably going
00:19:52
to accelerate interest in these kind of off government chain if true into some separate chain anyone can do it anybody
00:20:00
can do it they're doing it in china right and they're uh it's the point of it the digital
00:20:05
argument is like this incredible the whole point it's like absolute centralization of every capital asset
00:20:11
here's where you go think of how dangerous the digital yuan is the minute you say something that xi
00:20:15
jinping doesn't like it's a it's a stroke of a keyboard key and all your assets are all your assets are locked
00:20:21
away it's a database entry and you just basically reroute who belong who it belongs to or it could be it could
00:20:26
happen in america they say you know what california now wants to have a wealth tax anybody who's got money we're just
00:20:31
going to take your money out you guys think automatically do you guys think we sound like a right-wing politics show at
00:20:36
this point no this isn't a right-wing politics thing i mean i think i think that we
00:20:41
have so jumped the shark there are things that are happening today every day that you know if you had said in
00:20:46
isolation two or three years ago would any of these things ever happen we all would have just looked at each other and
00:20:51
said it's impossible that these things could happen but the problem is fast forward two years of a pandemic i think
00:20:58
we have let a lot of our civil liberties decay right under our nose and we're not
00:21:02
willing to fight for it because it's become too tribal and and rights have been politicized so the idea of having
00:21:08
rights you know and then standing up for your rights all of a sudden has to be a
00:21:13
decision between whether you're left or right that's crazy i don't think that liberties in the sense of government
00:21:19
oversight have decayed as uh in addition to that liberties in the sense of of a social
00:21:26
setting have decayed you know we've because of cancer culture we've normalized the ability
00:21:31
to silence minority or dissenting voices and this is both in the private enterprise setting as well as in the
00:21:37
public setting and it's um you know i don't know i i don't consider myself a right-wing conservative person by any
00:21:45
stretch um but i do consider myself a person who believes in individual freedom and
00:21:49
liberty that's called an american by the way yeah it's basically being an american and i think you know as we move
00:21:55
on to this uh recall in san francisco i think sax made a really good point like what
00:22:00
are our political leaders doing here are they trying to stir the pot and antagonize these situations if you look
00:22:05
you know clinton obama a lot of people previously were trying to defuse these situations and
00:22:10
then biden seems to be stirring the pot justin trudeau and then if you look at trump with blm you know and the
00:22:17
immigration stuff he never sat down and met with him and he arguably antagonized
00:22:21
them so i think this is a perfect segue into what happened and you know so we should expect a
00:22:28
little more from our political leaders great point from sacks you just bought up something incredible you know trump
00:22:32
railed against these blm folks but at no point did he try to shut down their bank
00:22:36
accounts and take their money away and trudeau can't you know did this was not even near in the scale of blm yeah who's
00:22:43
the bigger authoritarian yeah i mean clearly if you objectively it's true in this situation the scary
00:22:48
authoritarianism as we talked about in previous pods tends to come from the left
00:22:52
at least the right you see it coming it's failed under moral virtue signaling that's right they're very sanctimonious
00:22:59
they claim they claim to be the defenders of the working class while they're actually prosecuting them
00:23:06
such an unforced error like so dumb he's going to lose right now he's going to lose if a d.a was elected
00:23:12
and a police officer police chief were elected to san francisco that said we are going to freeze the bank accounts
00:23:18
and um you know uh demobilize the criminals that are ransacking our city our people
00:23:25
our stores would you support that no not if it's an office an extrajudicial use of power i
00:23:32
mean the law specifies what you're allowed to do do you think san francisco's in an emergency situation i
00:23:37
mean would you support the mayor taking on emergency uh authority to go and fix the problem which she just did by the
00:23:42
way in the tenderloin yeah but that doesn't give her the power to go to wells fargo and say to wells fargo we
00:23:48
want you to freeze all these accounts with no due process of law that's basically what trudeau is about
00:23:54
that's the overreach that's the line you think is like go and see that you should
00:23:58
have to go through a court proceeding just to free someone's bank account period
00:24:02
can't just freeze someone's man count the law allows you to do this now it's called rico so you follow the due
00:24:08
process of the law and you can do all those things friedrich that that you just mentioned if you want to free
00:24:13
somebody's bank account right you can actually do that the government has the ability to do that they don't need to
00:24:18
pass this basically get out of jail free card to do whatever you want without any
00:24:23
oversight and teacher matt's point earlier have you exhausted the regular law here
00:24:30
i haven't all the provinces are ending covet mandates anyway so this whole issue is
00:24:40
moot so dumb it's this is like the stupidest behavior at the end of a pandemic that
00:24:45
we've ever seen and shout out to george lucas for getting it right i mean if you
00:24:48
look at the theme of star wars it was like oh i just need emergency powers for a minute because of a trade federation
00:24:55
blockade and here we go a fake crisis yeah that wasn't george lucas by the way i mean that goes back
00:25:00
to the uh the roman empire right like yeah yeah that was the formation of the empire caesar caesar
00:25:07
got emergency authority i mean this is a tried and true and the poll the polls are actually right and the polls show
00:25:12
that the most of the public in canada is applauding so what was the line from democracy dice
00:25:18
to applause exactly that was padme's line in the star wars films all right uh they're aging well
00:25:24
the prequels uh three members of san francisco's board of education they were the worst just to be clear but go on
00:25:29
sorry uh not compared to the three just huge dumps that disney took on the our childhoods with the sequels three
00:25:37
members of the san francisco board of education were called this week massively they lost by between 72 and 79
00:25:47
these were the virtual signaling maniacs who wanted to change the names of all the schools wouldn't reopen the schools
00:25:53
yadda yadda and this uh really frustrated and they wanted to get rid of elite ap classes
00:26:00
all of this they did jason they did they did yeah um and these three board members are out so
00:26:06
london breed jason jason just to be clear in the middle of a pandemic i think my
00:26:10
understanding is that instead of figuring out how to get these kids back in class how to figure out how they
00:26:16
could take off their masks they wanted to drop abraham lincoln and george washington's name from schools
00:26:22
because it was it was too regressive yep they cancelled the gifted program because it made other kids feel bad
00:26:29
and a gentleman that wanted to serve on a committee who i think was gay but not minority was
00:26:35
excluded because he wasn't a minority enough for them so these are the three people that uh 76
00:26:44
of san francisco citizens or you know residents just uh recalled and if you're not following this the tech industry had
00:26:51
a major part in this in terms of backing it there was a lot of claims which i'll
00:26:55
let sachs address in a moment uh that this was a republican-driven out-of-state movement but if you look
00:27:02
there are not a hundred thousand republicans in san francisco and all likelihood
00:27:06
this was actually apparent in a lot of cases based on the geography of san francisco and the density of certain
00:27:13
populations a lot of asian americans came out in force and some neighborhoods 90 percent were voting to oust these
00:27:19
people uh gary tan uh who is a product of the san francisco public education system and a great entrepreneur and
00:27:26
venture capitalist uh was a leader in this movement so congratulations to him and this all is going to culminate i
00:27:31
think in may or june sucks will correct me with the recall effort for uh chesa boudin uh this killer d.a who
00:27:39
won't prosecute anybody sex what are your thoughts on this victory and full disclosure you were a major donor to
00:27:44
this i was the second largest donor and i was the largest donor under age 90. arthur rock was the biggest donor what a
00:27:49
badass by the way the guy is 95 years old he donated to 400 000 to this uh recall
00:27:55
um in fairness you live in san francisco this is a backdoor issue for you you care oh yeah yeah look i think crime in
00:28:02
schools are the key quality of life issues in any community and it transcends partisan boundaries if your
00:28:08
kids cannot get a quality education and you cannot be safe in your community nothing else matters and that matters to
00:28:14
democrats just as much as republicans and that's why like you said three quarters of san francisco voted for this
00:28:20
recall even though 85 of them voted for biden's not it's basically a 90 democrat
00:28:25
city so uh you know all these claims that was a republican recall turned out to be
00:28:30
nonsense this was something that was broadly supported and um and you know look it's the same
00:28:35
reason that yunkan flipped a you know plus 10 democrat state in virginia which is that you know it had a lot to
00:28:44
do with school closures they kept the schools closed for a year and a half uh and then when they were supposed to
00:28:49
have conversat a pta meeting about reopening it like jamas said they spent five hours debating whether to allow
00:28:56
this beloved gay parent on to a voluntary school board they didn't they spent all their time you know talking
00:29:02
about changing the names of the schools instead of how to reopen them they also there's chronic mismanagement i mean the
00:29:07
school is something like 125 million dollars in debt despite you know being in a very rich
00:29:13
city they opened for one day that's right just so that they could get a state uh piece of the state budget pie
00:29:19
so these kids clamored back to school just so that they could technically say yeah we were open and to get i think it
00:29:25
was a 12 or 13 million dollar check and then they shut the schools down again right and you brought a key point jason
00:29:30
which is that the asian american community in san francisco has been absolutely galvanized by this issue
00:29:34
because this school board also you know lowell high school was one of the best schools in the city and it was
00:29:39
merit-based and it had great advanced math programs and this this board basically got rid of all of that stuff
00:29:45
and it infuriated the asian american community many of whose most prominent members have basically risen out of
00:29:52
poverty because of the education they got at lowell and so this war on merit that's happening
00:29:58
is something that is going to you know flip the you know asian american community i think to when i
00:30:06
when i was growing up i grew up in a french ghetto of otto and i was supposed to go to a local high
00:30:15
school that was just plainly trash and i was able to go to an equivalent of lowell this a public magnet high school
00:30:24
that had uh advanced classes and everything a gifted program and it really did change my life and so
00:30:32
i really understand what people are saying which is like when you're in poverty the only way out is through an education
00:30:39
really you may you know get accidentally lucky but the only really predictable sustainable pattern here
00:30:45
is is through school and so when you deprive folks from being able to get a decent
00:30:50
education and there's no real you know orderly logic to it it's a really ridiculous kind of an idea the other
00:30:58
thing is i think that this speaks very powerfully as sac said as a non as a bipartisan
00:31:04
issue that these democrats have to get right because you know you saw this also in
00:31:08
virginia where democrats basically went down this one tack and you know the republican candidate
00:31:16
glenn younkin basically said hey listen the schools are broken it completely doesn't make any sense we oppose a lot
00:31:23
of what's going on the watering down and the critical race theory et cetera et cetera and he put it to a vote and a lot
00:31:28
of people cross the aisle there as well where typically ardent democrats basically voted for this republican
00:31:33
governor i think the point is that there are just several issues that are just so
00:31:39
transcend like they're just they transcend all party lines and this is an anchor issue that we have to get right
00:31:45
friedrich any thoughts on this do you think this is the start of maybe a turnaround for san francisco
00:31:52
because chester boone is way more hated and safety is an even bigger issue i think for a lot of people
00:31:58
right now in san francisco and it dovetails with asian hate and the number of asian people targeted in
00:32:05
crimes so he's got a i mean if these people got out by 75 on average he's going to be out by 95 percent is this a
00:32:11
tipping point is san francisco going to make a reason i don't know i mean look i
00:32:14
think there's generally a broader trend and momentum around what we classify as locism which i think is a
00:32:24
little bit disparaging to the intention of social justice and recognizing the the primary points of social justice
00:32:33
through action and behavior um in civic discourse and and government behavior um and you know this like the um
00:32:42
election of several das around the country uh who take a different stance to prosecution of crime
00:32:49
to try and create better options for rehab and and so on um i think is not a movement that's
00:32:54
going to go away overnight i think there's certainly a hefty amount of resistance but what
00:33:00
we're really doing right now is i think we're learning and realizing the boundaries
00:33:04
of this movement and of this moment the one boundary that i think san franciscans are too bad san francisco
00:33:11
like you know as in the case in tech has always been so progressive in terms of you know doing these things faster than
00:33:18
anyone else but what we're realizing in san francisco is non-prosecution of criminals
00:33:23
as the d.a has undertaken over the past couple of years leads to really heinous crime um and rampant
00:33:29
crime and um and and this kind of social justice movement within the education system causes a decline in the value of
00:33:36
our education system those are two really important learnings that san francisco has had over the past couple
00:33:42
of years with this very important um and momentous kind of social justice movement but it doesn't mean that the
00:33:48
movement is over it doesn't mean that quote-unquote vocalism is over it means that that social justice intent is still
00:33:54
there but we're realizing where the boundaries are and how far things can and maybe should go i posted this
00:33:59
article um tyler collins who's a you know pretty well-known economist he wrote this op-ed
00:34:04
for the for bloomberg and what he said is that wokism has peaked um and there's just these two passages that builds on
00:34:12
what friedberg said uh quote by wokism i refer to a movement that on the positive side is highly
00:34:17
aware of racism and social injustice and is galvanized towards raising awareness on the negative side it can be
00:34:24
preachy alienating overly concerned with symbols and self-righteous unquote and i think that that probably does
00:34:31
summarize sort of like where it starts which is i think rooted in a very good place but unfortunately all too often
00:34:37
where it ends which is that sort of moral absolutist judgment cancel culture around it
00:34:44
and then the second quote that he said was the following he said quote vocalism is likely to evolve into
00:34:50
a subculture that is highly educated highly white and fairly feminine that is still a large mass of people but
00:34:58
not enough to run the country or all its major institutions in the san francisco
00:35:02
school board recall for instance the role of asian americans was especially prominent unquote so i don't know i just
00:35:09
think that all these things sort of you know people are looking for affiliation and you
00:35:15
start with labels that bring you in and then you have to sort out are all these labels really true and how
00:35:21
true are they and i think we're in this moment now where now we know the mechanism of action of vocalism i just
00:35:26
don't think it works anymore and i think a lot of people will say i believe in the high order deals of racial and
00:35:31
social justice but i don't believe in the mechanism of action and so the pendulum swung too far
00:35:36
but but but the core intent of a generation of change is underway which is social justice and climate change i
00:35:43
think those are the two big uh points of it just won't be done with this cohort under this well it won't be done to this
00:35:48
extreme this fast right and um and i think that the pendulum went too fast too far
00:35:54
um and it's um and there are boundary effects that are causing recourse right now and we're seeing this across the
00:36:00
country especially in new york with the election of the mayor and san francisco the d.a recalls happening in the next
00:36:05
couple of months so sax what's your prediction on the da recall by the way well that's 95 but i mean to build on
00:36:11
your point they were talking about 10 of the people in the united states who are
00:36:15
involved in this you know retweeting and virtual signaling and you know is twitter a real place well no a city is a
00:36:21
real place people have to live in san francisco and when these ideologies result in
00:36:26
unlivable conditions for people well they're going to say you know what there's reality here how do we get
00:36:32
competent people to take the positions sacks that are being vacated now who should london breed put in these three
00:36:40
positions and maybe tech people need to i mean this is what i think has to happen i think some
00:36:45
number of tech people have to get off the bench and say you know what i'm going to do a tour of duty as
00:36:50
politicians in san francisco to to take back the city what should happen here in
00:36:55
terms of who takes these positions because republicans can't win in san francisco so you're going to need
00:36:59
moderate democrats right sex before sax goes can i just say something because i think i just want to say something
00:37:04
that's really important i'm sorry to jump in but j cal i think the point you're making about the tech people
00:37:10
implies the tech people are effective and good at doing this but that's not necessarily the fabric of san francisco
00:37:15
i've lived in san francisco since 2001 the number of people in san francisco in 2001 that were in the tech industry was
00:37:21
a minority since that time it became a significant size and over the last two years since
00:37:26
the pandemic it's decreased significantly but san francisco is a city with decades and generations of
00:37:30
history my wife's family is multi-generational san franciscans and i don't think that traditionally san
00:37:36
franciscans view tech people as the right people to solve these problems for them that the intention of that city is
00:37:43
not necessarily about let's get tech people to solve our problems they have a different set of values perhaps um and
00:37:48
so we we often overstate and assume that tech people are the right people and are
00:37:52
the the problem solvers but i don't think that that's necessarily the right problems that people want to solve so i
00:37:57
just i just wanted to interview and then who should take these positions because
00:38:00
right people typically really far left people are motivated to take these positions i don't see
00:38:06
business people writ large across all political you know positions but specifically in san francisco don't want
00:38:11
to take these positions so is this just going to be replayed saks the recall effort was led by two parents autumn
00:38:17
lujan and sivaraj they're the ones who led this thing they're the ones who rose up to basically oppose these crazy
00:38:24
school board members and that is who london bridge to talk to i mean she needs to go talk to the
00:38:29
people who are successful in organizing this recall because they understand the issues obviously and the people are with
00:38:35
them so either appoint them to the board or ask them for their recommendations and i think what you see consistently
00:38:41
whether it's with this sf uh school board or the the uh the school boards that we saw in virginia that yunkan very
00:38:49
effectively ran against is that they don't believe the parents matter terry mcauliffe's fatal that his last gaffe
00:38:56
was basically saying that the parents shouldn't get to decide what is taught in the schools he basically said the
00:39:00
quiet part out loud but that is what still across the country the teachers unions believe and most of the
00:39:06
democratic party the activists believe and until they start losing elections you're not going to see a change in that
00:39:12
belief oh my god how awesome would it be if sacks are on the school board oh my god
00:39:18
yeah uh and just to put a pin in this uh and the cherry on top the san francisco
00:39:24
board of supervisors voted seven to four to send a recall reform bill so their reaction to all of this is to do a
00:39:32
recall of recalls and say now you uh can't recall somebody in their first year and the people who are placed in
00:39:39
these positions can't run again so now the speculation is the three people who got voted off are going to run again so
00:39:45
there's a lot more to come on this yeah and also part so they're putting just to
00:39:49
staff that they're putting that on the ballot on june 7th the same day that we vote on the recall of chase booty and
00:39:55
the board of supervisors now put in this measure that would make it far harder to
00:39:59
recall people one of the provisions of that is whoever london breed appoints as the successor like you're talking about
00:40:06
they cannot run after that so it is designed to for no that makes no sense they're basically
00:40:12
doing a great job right exactly it makes no sense so you have the board of supervisors trying to throw a wrench
00:40:18
into the democratic process meanwhile these are people who claim to be preserving democracy saving democracy
00:40:23
they are trying to throw a wrench in the thing is underlying it david is they think they know better
00:40:30
that's what it fundamentally comes down to they are willing to have democracy up
00:40:33
to a point and when that point is an unacceptable view by somebody else they feel like
00:40:38
they know better and they're willing to be really draconian in whatever they do to decide yeah
00:40:45
and shout out to mike bloomberg i'll pull up the the tweet for everybody he hasn't been very vocal or been on the
00:40:51
stage much but obviously he did a great job in new york on reforming schools the
00:40:55
san francisco school board recalls should be a wake-up call to elected officials especially democrats across
00:41:02
the nation parents are fed up with the status quo and that put adults uh that puts adults ahead of kids yeah an
00:41:08
ideology ahead of results well said mike yeah well mr bloomberg yes that was very
00:41:13
good and bloomberg has been very good on calling out the democrat their democratic party's blind loyalty to the
00:41:19
teachers unions and until they're willing to break with the teachers unions who are their biggest donor we're
00:41:25
not going to get any real progress on school reform and this is the issue my favorite political commentator one of
00:41:31
them is roy tashira who's a democrat he wrote the emerging democratic majority he wrote a blog post talking about how
00:41:37
the asian how asian american voters are going to swing away from the democratic party because of issues like this
00:41:43
because of the decline of standards in school and safety and and the asian american community i think is galvanized
00:41:49
on this chase boudin issue because they have seen in all these cases of asian hate where
00:41:54
elders in their community have been violently assaulted chase abu deen has done nothing except release the
00:42:00
perpetrators walkers all right well listen this is seems like a good turning point let's um we talked about on this
00:42:05
podcast over and over again about the compression in sas multiples in the public market valuations uh
00:42:12
something that we're still working through in the stock market which has been choppy at best over the last couple
00:42:18
of months an information story came out just this week major crossover funds like tiger and d1 are slowing down their
00:42:25
investments in late stage private companies and i was talking to some folks who said the multiple compression
00:42:30
is here now they're not doing the deals at 75 or 100 x revenue this was reported in an article
00:42:36
by the information tiger global told their lps in a webinar earlier this month that it would no
00:42:41
longer focus on backing late stage startups preparing to go public instead they will focus on two things
00:42:47
going even earlier into series a and series b rounds and buying shares of public tech companies that have sunk in
00:42:54
value compared to the all-time highs obviously we know twillow zoom block all down over 60 percent from their one year
00:43:01
highs i could get into more details here but let's stop for a second and chamoth
00:43:04
what are your thoughts in uh the dot-com bubble it took somewhere between three to five
00:43:10
years for most stocks to bottom and they bottomed i think peak to trough somewhere
00:43:16
you know towards 80 of where they were in 2000 right so it took three to five years to go basically
00:43:24
minus eighty percent we did that in three months you know maybe four months and so uh the markets have become a lot
00:43:33
more efficient over time so now that we have that reset it's pretty natural that there's going to be
00:43:39
a very quick reset on the private market side and you know you have to go where the
00:43:44
bodies are buried and what i mean by that in this case is the overwhelming misvaluation of late-stage
00:43:52
private companies and so these folks don't have much of a choice they have a lot of money
00:43:57
that they've raised before all of this happened they have a huge portfolio of stuff that
00:44:03
they've marked up or have been marked up by others and they don't want to go through the
00:44:09
pain now resetting so part of the easy strategic decision there is to say you know what we know this is a little bit
00:44:16
radioactive but instead of really figuring out what the mark on these companies are we'll go
00:44:21
to a different sort of part of the playground and play there because we don't have to go and deal
00:44:28
with these issues and you know we can do 10 15 20 million dollar checks into early stage businesses pretty normal
00:44:35
reaction strategically but i think the reality is that at some point in the next year or two these
00:44:41
other companies have to get public the hope is that the market catches back up so that you can defend the last
00:44:47
valuation and that's that's the way that this stuff doesn't require a lot of pain
00:44:52
the problem is if you're high burn and you are counting on yet another successive round or
00:44:58
you're at a point in your life cycle where you need to go public in the next two years if you go public you will get
00:45:04
taken to the woodshed taking to the woodshed being your valuation might be half of what it is in
00:45:08
your last round so there's going to be medicine that has to be taken sex there'll be medicine some people are
00:45:13
going to have to take some medicine sacks what's your best advice being one of the great operators in the history of
00:45:18
silicon valley as the ceo of paypal thanks jacob well i'm gonna put you up there with
00:45:23
cheryl i mean i think that i think everybody agree the top four people can correct me here tim was a good operator
00:45:30
i mean i i saw what you did to icq man you were riding that that bad boy down that wasn't easy i delivered a billion
00:45:36
[ __ ] users to a company okay pretty decent um you did pretty good at facebook i'll say that but if i would
00:45:41
think most people would say sax cheryl tim cook keith for boy we'll put that aside for the debate in terms of
00:45:48
operating throwing a little dark spicy barbecue pork here come on give me a kiss i'll put you in the top 25 chamoth
00:45:54
okay but i mean it wasn't your was it your chosen career a little dark meat a little dark meat nice god please don't
00:46:00
get me in trouble man bring me into your start me bro you're orbiting i'm stepping back j cal who are your top
00:46:06
four cheryl i pick my top four in this order i'll give it an order so basically for white people when
00:46:12
uh asian and indian ceos run most of the tech companies and stuff i'm talking about number two ceos not ceos just for
00:46:21
the ceo position to be clear i'm not talking ceo i'm talking co i would say tim cook when he was steve jobs that's
00:46:27
my number one operator last 23 years number two i put cheryl sandberg who did obviously amazing things for google and
00:46:34
then facebook right those two would be my top two and then i tie my top two sacks uh as uh at paypal uh and zenifitz
00:46:43
even though it didn't work out it was still a great run at the time and then i put keith reboy square
00:46:48
uh and a couple of other companies he did those are my top four anybody else want to come at me go ahead i don't have
00:46:54
complete data set on cos where would you put sex you uh did i put you over and disagree
00:47:00
who might have disappeared oh and was it keith adams linkedin brilliant you are jacob lately that's a
00:47:08
love fest now you and friedberg are at each other's throats so i'll just let you guys fight
00:47:18
it out and i'll be all about the love yeah freeba why are you attacking jake cal yeah
00:47:26
as an operator extraordinaire what's your best advice to the company that raised 100 million and let's say their
00:47:32
valuation is now not a billion it's 500 million what are the steps you take you got 14 months of runway in the bank do
00:47:38
you lay people off do you extend it to 24 what are your thoughts you must be dealing with this with companies in your
00:47:43
portfolio well there's a few things going on first of all i think tiger built a great
00:47:47
business in providing late stage sort of passive non-dilutive capital to to companies sas companies we have a bunch
00:47:54
of of uh sas businesses that they provided later stage financing i think those valuations are gonna come down i don't
00:48:01
know that they're gonna be such a great partner for series a firms because they are passive and you know what we see is
00:48:07
that series a companies need a lot of help they need a lot of advice you need a lot of help with recruiting governance
00:48:12
governance they need you know when they're going from say 20 employees to 100 they need to know what that org
00:48:17
chart looks like and on and on and on so i don't know that if this report i don't know if this
00:48:22
reporting is actually true but if the goal is all of a sudden for tiger to become a series a investor that competes
00:48:28
with craft or sequoia or these other firms that are not very hands-on that doesn't seem like a great strategy to me
00:48:34
i do think that for our later stage companies they have to realize that you know if they raised can i take the other
00:48:40
side of this sorry david i just want your reaction to this i think it's going to work but not for
00:48:45
the right reasons the reason it'll work is there are way more entrepreneurs now than there are
00:48:51
great entrepreneurs and so of all of these entrepreneurs that exist the idea of getting passive money
00:49:00
where you won't get fired where there is that remember like remember when we were
00:49:04
growing up in silicon valley the risk is always like if you take sequoia benchmark you know
00:49:09
social capital like there's a high bar for that capital which means we are helping you run this business
00:49:14
effectively and there's a cost where if you don't perform you'll get fired there's always been that risk it's true
00:49:20
and i guess that's the argument they could make but the flip side is that there's a lot of so the ceo now
00:49:26
why would you take a 15 million dollar series a check from sequoia where they could fire you whereas 15 million
00:49:31
dollars from tiger they may never call you we we address that by doing look if a founder is really worried about that
00:49:37
we address that by giving them three board seats you know we might have one they might have three
00:49:42
i mean my view on it is you just never fire a founder unless they've done something criminal it's just that simple
00:49:47
but um so look i think there's ways of addressing the governance where uh you can get the help or the value out
00:49:54
of an early stage firm without giving up the control so yeah i mean look that's the pitch
00:49:59
that tiger would make but i think that's addressable uh what do you think of that pitch
00:50:03
fredberg i will give you the 15 million dollar series a you don't have to have a
00:50:07
board you can just be passive and let us know how it goes give us a quarterly report we'll look at the p l
00:50:14
that's all of crypto now anyways that's true well i mean that's a fair point no governance in crypto is leading to a lot
00:50:19
of weird stuff i can tell you i tell people this a lot so i had um three term sheets for my series b uh it was from
00:50:25
andreessen horowitz coastal ventures and founders fund and founders fund came in kind of last minute
00:50:32
but i went with coast law uh even though it's a lower valuation because vinod was
00:50:36
pretty insistent like let me put someone that could be useful some you know government person because we were
00:50:41
doing a lot of work lobbying in in dc on your board we won't be on your board we
00:50:46
won't bother you and i took the round and then my series c i took from founders fund because brian zingerman
00:50:50
who's obviously a good friend um you know made the case like look uh our model at founders fund is we let
00:50:56
founders run the business we're not here to tell you how to run your business and
00:50:59
they were both great fits and you know it worked out well i didn't i had i have had experience with antagonistic
00:51:06
vcs on boards and um you know it generally creates a pretty negative dynamic now when i was the worst story
00:51:11
without the person's name i don't think i want to go public with it so i'm not going to do that um but when i was on
00:51:16
give us an idea of what the behavior would be because there are people in the audience who want to know what is bad
00:51:20
behavior of vc just give us a composite when you're an entrepreneur or ceo running an early stage business you live
00:51:26
that business 20 hours a day you know the details if you're smart you're thorough you're analytical you're
00:51:31
creative there is no one that's going to come in the boardroom for two hours a quarter and suggest things to you that
00:51:37
you haven't thought of there's no one that's gonna come in the room and be smarter than you at your own business
00:51:41
and so more often than not vinod's been exceptional at defining this problem the
00:51:46
problem is vcs join a board and they think that they have to quote add value so they come in and they make a bunch of
00:51:52
suggestions and recommendations and push you to do a bunch of things and as the node has said correctly many times they
00:51:58
more often than not add negative value they can actually destroy and damage a business because they need to feel like
00:52:04
they're exerting some degree of influence over the business and as a result they push the business to do
00:52:08
things that the ceo or founder otherwise wouldn't be doing and that often ends up
00:52:12
in a kind of weird sticky kind of place so i just validated the tiger pitch right there i think that's right and by
00:52:17
the way it's why founders fund founders fund is fantastic i don't know if you guys are lps but their investment
00:52:24
returns are so far beyond what i think anyone really realizes they're incredible investors and a big part of
00:52:29
it is they try and find the entrepreneur that doesn't want and doesn't need the help and then they give them the capital
00:52:34
to go and execute and they leave them the heck alone and they are just so good at finding those folks identifying them
00:52:39
and then literally being passive in in how they kind of manage and operate their business and that's why they're so
00:52:44
freaking good i think the people you're talking about are a lot of rookie vcs who come in and then yeah they they
00:52:50
think that not just just experienced ex operators even people who ran businesses who say i know
00:52:55
how to run a business and look no two businesses are alike so maybe the way they ran their business with their team
00:53:00
and their market and their industry worked well for them but now when they got to come in and do it with someone
00:53:04
else's business and some other space with some completely different team you know they try and exert influence and
00:53:09
really it's just you know not wanted let me go to sac sacks hold on i want to just get one from you
00:53:14
give us an idea because you've been in the business for over 20 years uh i mean by the looks of it maybe 40.
00:53:20
but 20 years of just crushing it in the business what's the worst behavior you've seen on a board
00:53:27
you can make a composite of like a vc being destructive on a board yeah i mean look i think sometimes vcs
00:53:34
will have sort of hobby horses and they'll keep pushing for things that the founder doesn't want
00:53:39
that's not productive but what i would say is first of all let me just say like i'm not somebody who
00:53:46
likes to take board seats and i i do it as a it's like i see it as a cost not a benefit to me because it takes up my
00:53:53
time if i didn't have to ever take a board seat that'd be a great as far as i'm concerned that'd be a good thing i'm
00:53:58
not somebody who wants to you know insert myself and get on these boards you know offer it as an
00:54:03
incentive no i only i only took more sales yeah the only reason i'll ever take aboard c is because i have to do it
00:54:09
because the founder insists that otherwise they won't go with i've seen it so exactly then you'll do it for one
00:54:14
year right you'll say hey i'll do it for a year i always time limit it now because i just can't i mean
00:54:19
i can't make a ten year obligation you know it's typically like one or two years and then you know we'll see
00:54:24
doesn't mean i'll roll off in two years but um but i but i need to have the expectation
00:54:29
set up and and the reality is if the company can perform well for another two years they'll be at a different stage
00:54:36
and maybe they won't you know need my help as much so the two most valuable pieces of private equity that i own
00:54:45
is a company called dcg and it's a company called netscope and collectively it's like billion dollars
00:54:51
worth of stock that i own what i'm on the board of one i'm not on the board of the other anymore
00:54:57
and i text with these guys maybe once every two or three months at best so you know completely confirming david
00:55:04
your point that great founders are just n of one individuals you know barry silbert um sanjay berry next level guys
00:55:14
but that's very different than the the series a playbook because when i ran institutional money i'm
00:55:20
telling you there is a pressure to be involved and show some value and i do think that there is a level of
00:55:27
judgment on the ceo that has happened now maybe that's changed historically but i think that's
00:55:32
the single biggest pivot that one would exploit if you were tiger or co2 or d1 stepping into the early
00:55:39
stage game which is to essentially make it a feature and it's not dissimilar to when dst and yuri milner entered the
00:55:46
late stage round you know what was his big differentiation i'll take common stock and i won't take a board seat i
00:55:52
didn't see it to be influential it seemed so counter-intuitive and so against the grain but he acknowledged
00:56:00
what was this thing that up until that point was true which is common and preferred converged in price per share
00:56:07
so buying common in a late stage company was the same as buying preferred yo well
00:56:12
that's something you should explain for a second people don't know you said at an ipo
00:56:16
well let's start so when you set up a company you have a price per share of the common stock and then a price per
00:56:21
share that the series a investor has the series a investor is buying preferred shares that actually looks
00:56:28
more like debt than equity and what i mean by that is there's typically a coupon there's a rate of return there's
00:56:33
accumulated dividends all these features give it a certain price per share and the common has none of those features
00:56:40
and so it has a lower protective provisions and that gap is typically around 20 to 1
00:56:46
when you set up a company okay and that's what allows you to hire employees and give them very very cheap
00:56:52
options with embedded upside then what happens is you raise more and more of these series b series c series d
00:56:58
these preference stack right preferred shares build up but the value of the comment keeps
00:57:03
rising too and by the time you go public the gap converges what yuri realized was hey wait a minute
00:57:10
i'm buying a company a year or 18 months before it goes public the price of the common and the price of the preferred
00:57:15
are roughly the same and so i'm just gonna you know do that and i'm not gonna take a board seat
00:57:20
because it's clear this company is successful so similarly for tiger d1 and co2 i would just observe the obvious and
00:57:27
kind of put everything that we've just said on the table which is hey guys i'll give you the money you're either end of
00:57:32
one or not i'm making a guess that you are and i'm just going to get out of your way and
00:57:36
leave you alone bundling governance and advice unbundling the governance and advice piece from the capital piece but
00:57:42
you're going to still need that governance and advice piece i think i think it could work yeah i mean i think
00:57:46
there's a lot of great founders or their founders who start young and experienced
00:57:50
become great and the smart ones listen to advice on the way and they they seek out people who've done it before and
00:57:56
so you know yes they may be in no one business by the growth stage but that doesn't mean they don't need any help
00:58:03
whatsoever at the series a stage such a good observation yeah and look i think there's been i think there's been an
00:58:07
evolution in silicon valley i'd actually say there's been like three distinct phases in the venture capital world and
00:58:12
i remember all of them so you go back to the the night the late 90s okay when you
00:58:17
know you had this mentality on the part of vcs that if a company became successful you would just automatically
00:58:22
replace the founders right you go bring professional ceo upgrade that was a disaster okay and and that's when
00:58:28
founders fund peter came in i think founded um founders fund in 2003 and the reason they called it founders fund is
00:58:34
to indicate they were going to be pro-founder and they would never replace the founder and they would let you do
00:58:39
whatever you wanted and i think zachary you want to tell the backstory of the sean parker stuff and how that happened
00:58:43
yeah i mean so basically both peter and sean parker had you know experiences they felt were very negative with
00:58:51
sequoia and by the way i have a great relationship with sequoia roloff who worked with us at paypal is there and i
00:58:56
think they've evolved as a firm so i'm not calling them out or anything but but both sean parker and peter felt like
00:59:03
sequoia pushed out and replaced and so with plaque so specifically there were a couple of different
00:59:09
companies involved but when peter was uh ceo of paypal as well that you know he felt he felt that pressure
00:59:15
as well so when they then founded as two of the four founding partners of founders one back in 2003 the whole
00:59:21
point was we are going to be pro founder you're never going to replace you will let you do whatever you want i think
00:59:26
that that was phase two and that became i think the dominant model and so becoming pro founder was now table
00:59:32
stakes and i think the third phase has been you know what andreessen harvest has now done with this massive
00:59:38
like the services and the value add which is that we're gonna basically not only be pro-founder but we're gonna like
00:59:44
bring all these resources to help you and that's the era we're in right now i mean from the from our perspective like
00:59:51
as as craft i mean look it's not in our interest to get into any dispute with a founder and if we feel like our advice
00:59:58
isn't being taken well we just back off you know of course we're pro founder like we don't want the control we're not
01:00:04
control investors and you know if it's if it's becoming frictional we'd rather just get out of the way no it's just not
01:00:11
working the underlying thing that you're not saying though is because you have enough
01:00:15
of a fund that's large enough where you can have enough bets where any of these any of these things to the upside is a
01:00:21
total needle mover but anything that goes to zero doesn't actually diminish the fund or impair it meaningfully so
01:00:27
there is no upside to getting engaged and really being non-anti-founder so yeah i think it's a i think it's a part
01:00:33
of a business model but one thing i want to tell you about parker parker was single-handedly incredibly responsible
01:00:38
for keeping zuck in the seat when he was president of facebook because parker wrote
01:00:42
you know uh this structure that really allowed mark to keep control super voting shares sax to add on to your your
01:00:49
point i think that there's been uh so so it there seems to be a bifurcation around the services model or
01:00:55
not but the fourth thing that seems to have happened and you guys tell me if i'm wrong on this but it plays into the
01:01:00
tiger global story when i was um uh when i got that term sheet for my series b at climate corp marc andreessen i was
01:01:08
trying to raise like 25 to 30 million dollars and mark anderson was like we're gonna give you a turn sheet for 40
01:01:12
million dollars more than you were asking for uh because we want you to use that extra capital to go faster to go
01:01:18
harder to grab the market because we have this big pitch in businesses grabbing the market
01:01:23
and that seems to have also become a bit of a mainstay but not just a mainstay but now almost like the the the kind of
01:01:29
standard pitch that a lot of the later stage guys are taking which is like here's so much capital that it helps you
01:01:36
make the market and then the softbank vision fund kind of took that to the extreme with 100 billion raise and tiger
01:01:41
global i think last year have publicly said they deployed about 15 billion dollars into startups where startup may
01:01:48
in a natural cycle kind of evolve to needing 70 million raise or 100 million raise and they're like writing checks
01:01:53
for 250 or 300 and saying this extra capital gives you the ability to move faster and the reason is
01:01:58
the faster a business moves the higher the multiple they get on their revenue so the higher the growth
01:02:04
rate the higher the multiple so if you can deploy capital faster if we could find a business where we can pump money
01:02:09
through you to get it out the door faster your multiple goes up and tiger's model was let's just get the multiples
01:02:15
up there's multiple expansion and growth so we'll make money two ways when the company goes public in 18 to 24 months
01:02:21
obviously when the markets end up tanking and all those multiples compress no growth rate is going to solve that
01:02:26
problem for you um but having more capital than maybe you were thinking or asking for also seems to
01:02:32
have become kind of an attacking i don't know if that if you view that as kind of
01:02:35
this fourth evolution but that certainly wasn't the case 20 years ago when vcs were being careful about is it a six
01:02:41
million dollar round or an 8 million what's the right amount of capital and nowadays it's much more about take more
01:02:46
than you need i'll say there was a 3.5 in there which is you saw a little bit of lack of governance or superpowers on
01:02:54
the part of like some incompetent founders or bad founders just you know whether it's we work
01:02:59
theranos whatever too much control not enough governance things go off the rail but you know based on this discussion i
01:03:04
really think this bifurcates when it's a first-time founder versus a second time
01:03:08
founder in what i see because i have been doing board training for seed companies where i will just have three
01:03:14
founders sit in on each other's first board meetings we do one board meeting each
01:03:19
and i train them how board meetings works and what i experienced with sequoia on my board and other boards and
01:03:24
first-time founders like the tactical stuff how to run a board meeting legal hr hiring partnerships go to market
01:03:31
strategies man it is all tactical all the time and then when i've been on with second and third time
01:03:36
founders you know they really are like here's all the materials here's what i'm thinking
01:03:40
about what do we think strategically so they go from the tactical level to the strategic admission level awfully quick
01:03:46
and they actually seem to enjoy having those four meetings a year whereas the first time founders really need to have
01:03:51
six to ten a year in those in that first you know call it year two of a company that's my experience i realized in this
01:03:58
discussion that the market has really meaningfully changed meaning when i was actively
01:04:03
investing even in the early 2000s or sorry in the in you know 2011-1213 there was a culture where if you
01:04:12
underperformed you would get replaced and i think david what you just spoke about which i guess is true
01:04:18
has really changed which is if you're running a multi-multi-billion dollar fund where every check is 20 million
01:04:24
dollars the upside is billions but the downside is negative 20. there's just no point
01:04:29
and so you know sequoia used to be known as a very very very tough tough tough place for ceos that were underperforming
01:04:36
now they got a nine billion dollar fund now yeah maybe less than 10 years ago i think it was i
01:04:44
think it was known as a very tough demanding place i think benchmark was known as a very tough demanding place
01:04:48
because the money was much more finite right benchmark still still that case yeah i mean the expectation culture they
01:04:55
never they never grew their fund size no jason you're not you're not hearing me yeah i am i think what's happening is
01:05:01
listen i had sequoia on my board and i worked at sequoia so there's difference between high expectations which i think
01:05:06
all these folks have to have and the willingness to replace the founder as ceo and what i'm saying is every vc claims
01:05:14
this but there were a handful of vcs that had the courage to do this i mean famously mike morris and john doerr you
01:05:20
know had it out with larry uh at the you know right right after this round like either go public you know get
01:05:26
your business model or give us your money back famously at google so they're not they're willing to draw a line in
01:05:31
this end i think that that has fundamentally changed at all these organizations because the fund sizes
01:05:36
have gone up and the and the mathematical reality of venture capital has changed something else you're
01:05:41
missing which is you got to remember moritz and door were not operators and now these companies are being run ruloff
01:05:48
is running sequoia and he's an operator and he was there so the changing of the guard and mark andreessen and ben
01:05:53
horowitz were operators so the operator class behaves very differently i disagree with you i think that it
01:05:59
functions respectfully no hold on i think that fun size dictates this behavior more than any
01:06:05
singular other feature when you're running a nine billion dollar fund you just don't sweat that changing of the
01:06:11
ceo and david said it really well you just say okay i'll cut our losses and move on we don't lose i think it's more
01:06:16
about the culture change in silicon valley of a bunch of mba finance people who have never run a company now moving
01:06:22
and running companies but you know let's move on to the next any uh closing thoughts on this one well just i mean
01:06:28
jason you start to make this point that if you're a founder and you want to eventually run a great public company
01:06:34
when you ipo guess what you're going to have governance and what i've seen big time right i mean
01:06:40
there's just delaware law there's just a lot of like expectations around being a
01:06:44
public company and so if you don't have a board you know and you're not constituting one until you go public
01:06:51
there's going to be a massive amount of cleanup that you have to do i mean that's what i've seen
01:06:56
and so you'll end up scrambling to create a board i think that the board serves so many purposes early on of
01:07:03
giving you advice of giving you structure of providing support help services you can still remain in control while
01:07:11
getting those things and i'm just i'm just skeptical that like if you form a company with completely passive vcs you
01:07:18
don't even serve on a board like you're gonna have to do a lot of cleanup later i'd say at a minimum totally i think
01:07:24
that that's true too totally i'm not by the way i'm not saying i'm i advocate this but i'm i just think that
01:07:30
the reality is that if these large late-stage crossover firms really step into the early stage
01:07:36
i think they could really build a big book of business um i do think there are a lot of founders who would love to just
01:07:42
be given the money and just to be left alone i'm not saying that they think they know that it's better for them
01:07:48
but on the margin just to be able to be left alone now what has changed maybe those everybody's going to be very hands
01:07:54
off just because all the fun sizes have exploded so at that point then you know what is
01:07:58
the difference between sequoia and d1 time will tell i just know that like when i see a founder doing something
01:08:04
that i think could risk the company going off the rails i'll say so and then you know if it keeps happening and the
01:08:10
situation gets worse i'll say so again i might mention the third time i might not
01:08:15
at a certain point i'm just like maybe after like two times i'm just like they don't want to listen to me that's fine
01:08:20
it's their decision their company their decision they go off the rails their problem you know we'll move on to the
01:08:25
next one i mean that's the reality sometimes founders have to learn by doing it like sometimes their intent and
01:08:31
you know what they could be right and you could be wrong too so it's hard as a as a it's hard as a board member you
01:08:37
know that's why i'm very judicious in giving advice as a board member now and i'm on a bunch of boards and doing word
01:08:43
training because when roloff was on my board and he still is you know he would ask great questions and he would be very
01:08:48
thoughtful about hey have you thought about this or when i got advice from doug or michael moritz directly you know
01:08:53
doug would say hey well can you share the two-year plan with me and i'd say you know we haven't built a plan and he
01:08:58
said well you know jason you know hope is not a plan let's make a plan and let's discuss you know the milestones
01:09:03
along here and it was amazing to have that level of thoughtfulness around total vision as a founder i love i mean
01:09:10
as a founder i love getting advice and i think you got to be really dumb not to seek it out i mean i when i was a
01:09:15
founder i would even though i was sort of competing with benioff i would meet with him and i would like get amazing
01:09:19
tidbits um just recently we did it wasn't like an official board meeting because roloff
01:09:24
isn't on our board but he's a big investor in one of my incubations colin and we just did a meeting with him and
01:09:33
and uh and gets it in every time not to be confused with all in but no yeah not to be confused but we have a trademark
01:09:40
it was it was me and axel who's the co-founder of paulin and um and roloff and we had like an amazing meeting where
01:09:47
we got like i'd say amazing advice from roloff that like focused us and it wasn't that i didn't know these things
01:09:55
but it's just like when you're in the weeds sometimes you don't necessarily crystallize on focus on the most
01:09:59
important thing and i came out of that meaning feeling like okay roloff just refocused us on the most important thing
01:10:06
and it was immensely valuable and you've got to be like dumb not to seek that out
01:10:10
no matter what stage you're at because i seek it out today yeah and think about this david you're
01:10:15
in the thick of things he's on square's board he's on other boards he's got a picture of the entire
01:10:21
playing field it's like somebody who's the coach of 15 nba uh teams and you're like the coach of
01:10:28
one he's seeing things on other nba teams that they're doing in methodologies and best practices that
01:10:33
you're just not gonna see so i mean again and then if you look at the great founders tk used to come to me
01:10:39
uh and say hey you know this is the thing i'm gonna be doing at the next board meeting or here's the thing can we
01:10:44
jam out and he would just ask for a jam session he came up with that term and three or four people would get together
01:10:49
and just jam and talk for five hours about the product it was awesome all right let's go on to uh david saks's
01:10:55
favorite section of the show science with the sultan of science himself oh oh i thought you were going
01:11:02
to say his favorite paul graham oh enough with that ooh we can't talk about that that was
01:11:08
exactly exciting you have to you if you are engaged in the science segment david
01:11:13
sox and pg are in a fight all right let's cover it here's the deal if david sacks is engaged during the science
01:11:19
portion of the class we will let him have his fight uh as the as the teacher here tell us a
01:11:24
little bit about stem cells and uh this hiv story i was going to tell sax that the the earth is round okay it's not
01:11:31
flat i don't care yeah um how does that affect solana so sorry the story that i think we
01:11:37
wanted to you guys wanted to cover today with the hiv story which um incredible i suggested this topic so i'm interested
01:11:45
explain it to us hiv is a retrovirus meaning once you get infected it doesn't go away
01:11:51
he doesn't care he's he's flipping through his politico notes to figure out what did he miss saying
01:12:00
that he was supposed to say today he just flipped over to ben shapiro on 2x he's listening to jordan peterson and
01:12:06
sam harris in conversation go ahead okay okay the the hiv being cured headline uh you
01:12:13
know we can dive into it for two minutes but hiv is a retrovirus when you get infected with hiv it stays in your body
01:12:18
forever it actually ends up living inside of your immune cells that's what makes it such an interesting challenging
01:12:24
virus and it destroys those immune cells so over time you end up getting aids and
01:12:29
the way it enters the immune cells is through a specific protein some people have a genetic mutation
01:12:35
where if there's a change in the their dna and that protein is different hiv cannot enter their immune cells and they
01:12:42
can actually they are naturally immune to hiv ccr5 yeah and so what's happened is um found
01:12:50
apparently in white northern europeans yeah like norwegians i think yeah exactly and um anyway so what's uh
01:12:58
the interesting study that was done um all immune cells are made from stem cells in your bone marrow and
01:13:05
so you know all the white blood cells that we have that fight off our diseases come from our bone marrow and
01:13:10
um when you get a blood cancer sometimes you end up getting so severe that you have to actually wipe out
01:13:17
all the immune cells in your body and give yours and you end up with a bone marrow transplant so you get new bone
01:13:23
marrow put in your new blood cells put in and hopefully if you can survive the therapy and survive that treatment those
01:13:29
uh that new bone marrow will produce new immune cells and your body will recover
01:13:33
and you will be cured of your blood cancer so what happened is people had hiv and when you get this uh this bone
01:13:40
marrow transplant you end up you know they give you radiation and chemo and they wipe out all your blood cells
01:13:45
um uh and and then they give you this bone marrow transplant so they selectively chose
01:13:51
um bone marrow stem cells that came from people that have the uh the genetic mutation uh that uh that
01:13:59
prevents hiv so then when these hiv patients that got blood cancer got a bone marrow
01:14:04
transplant with this mutation in it they were cured of hiv um and so it's a pretty profound
01:14:10
kind of demonstration of what we already knew which is that this genetic mutation
01:14:15
can can prevent hiv and there are a lot of therapies that are underway right now
01:14:22
to actually use gene editing to induce that mutation in people's uh blood cells and in their bone marrow without needing
01:14:31
to give them a whole transplant the the first guy that did it the first guy that did it was german right or he
01:14:36
was in germany i think and he unfortunately passed away uh they cured his his hiv aids but he
01:14:44
unfortunately had a relapse of the leukemia that killed him but i think all three cases of people
01:14:49
that um that have been quote unquote cured uh have have been these leukemia patients but i'll say two things two
01:14:56
things about the future of this kind of possibility number one is you don't need
01:15:00
to get a bone marrow transplant to have this um mutation induced in your cells to prevent this infection from uh kind
01:15:09
of occurring in your body you can use gene editing tools to do that and so we are now developing genetic therapies
01:15:14
where rather than go and get a whole bone marrow transplant to cure your hiv we can actually edit your cells those
01:15:20
edited cells will now be resistant and you will be resolved of hiv the second thing is the way that they gave people
01:15:25
the bone marrow transplant the way they created those stem cells for the bone marrow transplant was from umbilical
01:15:30
cord uh blood from from newborns which is very rich in stem cells and this is a traditional way of kind of giving people
01:15:38
stem cell-based therapies is you go and source stem cells from another body or your own body which are called
01:15:43
autologous stem cells but like i just want to say one thing what's really interesting in the future is not going
01:15:48
to be about pulling other people's stem cells into your body and finding them from you know fetal blood or what have
01:15:53
you we now have the technology which i've talked about multiple times on the show called yamanaka factors where
01:15:59
theoretically we can take your cells from your own body turn them into stem cells grow them in a
01:16:06
lab and use that as the therapy that's called autologous stem cell therapy and rather than use stem cells or trying to
01:16:12
find them and circ you know figure them out where they are in your body and pull
01:16:15
them out we can actually do stem cells for your body and that's like you know 15 years out is um
01:16:20
autologous induced stem cell therapy where you actually make your own stem cells and then give yourself all sorts
01:16:25
of therapies not just bone marrow transplants but you can heal lots of tissue in the body using these stem cell
01:16:30
systems we don't really hear about hiv aids anymore in that article i think it said that there's about 37 million
01:16:36
people around the world that have hiv aids and it's incredible actually the amount of progress that science has made
01:16:41
in this disease i remember when i was growing up it was made to to be like this incredible boogeyman
01:16:48
yeah um and it really governed like a lot of social norms at the time because we were still discovering what hiv aids
01:16:55
was and you know how you know how do you think about sexual uh promiscuity you know from a moral and ethical
01:17:02
perspective um i think it had a huge impact on my generation absolutely it did it was a death sentence they they
01:17:08
made us paranoid so here's what's happened therapies have gotten so good at suppressing suppressing the virus if
01:17:15
the virus is suppressed far enough even though you are always going to be infected if it's suppressed far enough
01:17:20
the who and the fda have both said you can still have unprotected sex and not transmit hiv and so even though there
01:17:26
are plenty of people out there that might be having unprotected sex with hiv um the therapies have suppressed the
01:17:32
viral load to the point that they're not transmitting it actively and so that's been the big breakthrough in science
01:17:37
over the last decade and then they also had these prep pills right which people could take proactive if they thought
01:17:42
they might you know find themselves but i mean champ you and i lived in a generation where i mean that was exactly
01:17:48
it was the end of things yeah well i mean it was the end of days and they're like
01:17:52
i i don't know it was a single biggest thing that i was that i was taught in sex ed classes to
01:17:57
be afraid of being really scared at all and then the problem that it that it created was like you know in
01:18:03
countries that had a large catholic population um you know the catholic church was so
01:18:08
you know uh evil they had they were undecided on um they were the opposite side they
01:18:15
told people in africa to not use condoms when aids was rampant it was the biggest
01:18:21
evil second biggest evil the catholic church did in modern history obviously the first we know i have a contribution
01:18:27
to this segment oh god you know what he's wrong i know your point is relationship look i i
01:18:36
remember how scared people were of aids you know back in the 1980s when this came up and i remember that there was a
01:18:43
head of the nih who even whipped up people's fear hold on people's fear by saying that even casual even casual
01:18:51
contact within the same household can spread it and you know who that happened yes we know
01:19:00
dedicated his life to trying to solve and reduce the suffering of saw for aids and hiv no in the 1980s in the 1980s he
01:19:08
was the face of government indifference towards aids and he spread fear and was medically wrong about it go check the
01:19:14
records he was a screw-up then and he's a screw-up on it he worked tirelessly he didn't
01:19:20
work tirelessly on it jkl i think saks is right in the sense that like what we thought we knew back then turned out to
01:19:26
be wrong and i think that's a really important point you know particularly in science it's a
01:19:30
process of discovery what we thought we knew back then turned out it was all a hypothesis it's all a thesis until it's
01:19:37
proven or disproven and that's the case read andrew sullivan i mean you know fauci was absolutely the enemy
01:19:44
public enemy number one of the of the game who is it tony tony yeah well it was attorney tony perkins there was
01:19:53
actually a debate that fauci was in uh on aids where a gay actress literally said to him i hate you and if you read
01:20:00
andrew sullivan's blog he will talk about how he remembers back in the 1980s that fauci was sort of public enemy
01:20:06
number one in the gay community because of his position on this during the reagan
01:20:10
administration and so it is a lot of civil disobedience act up except remember and he responded by putting massive
01:20:18
resources into this so i think you know if he was that's not listen listen to andrew sullivan on this thing
01:20:24
he's sullivan he is not that right wait andrew sullivan is the reason why more than any other public intellectual
01:20:31
why we have marriage equality today he is number one he advocated for marriage equality and in the new republic made
01:20:38
the case for it before anybody else and popularized that argument yeah i'm a fan
01:20:41
of his writing uh let's not say don't try and portray him as a far right winger or whatever portray foul you're
01:20:46
you're going to fauci's intent and you want to believe that she's an evil person
01:20:51
i think you and many other people have mysteriously forgotten who fauci really is
01:20:56
okay you think i know the conspiracy you think fauci's intent is to you know cover up the uh
01:21:03
intentionally was working against uh solving for hiv that's ridiculous do you think i wouldn't say intentionally do
01:21:08
you think fauci had good intentions yeah if you infer that sex do you think factory had good intentions i don't i
01:21:13
don't really care about his intentions i just want to look at his actions it's amazing it's amazing
01:21:18
it's amazing to me that a public official who was so wrong back then in the 1980s 1990s on the
01:21:28
public health crisis of our time would just be given a free pass and along comes a new public health crisis the
01:21:33
last couple of years and he's been completely wrong about that too so why are you giving this guy a free passion i
01:21:38
don't get it hey in a cloud of uncertainty in a time of war do you think that leaders need to
01:21:44
show strong intent and clear signals or do you think that they should be wishy-washy because they don't know
01:21:49
enough i think they should be right and if they're trying the best with what they have with the information they have
01:21:56
at the time okay well yeah there's some forgiveness for uh for making mistakes but when
01:22:01
you're constantly wrong maybe it's time to get somebody else in there and look but and falchi by the way fauci with
01:22:07
respect to code we talked about it before 100 participated in a suppression of the investigation into the origins of
01:22:15
kovid there was an active attempt to suppress that come on you know that the the foia emails show it
01:22:23
it's a good science segment i do want to give a shout out to the the researchers uh who actually did this
01:22:31
with this woman uh in new york it's pretty freaking incredible what's incredible is
01:22:35
that they did it with um hiv patients who had blood cancer and it was a really kind of like thoughtfully
01:22:41
designed experiment um incredibly thoughtful yeah and it's been four years so i mean this has been baking for a
01:22:46
long time by the way as i zoom out and hear you guys talk about what hiv was like you know back in the day and the
01:22:51
fear around it i i do think that 30 40 years from now given the tools we have with induced stem cells and cell-based
01:22:58
therapies and there are hundreds of cell-based therapies coming to market over the next few years they're all in
01:23:02
late stage clinical trials as well as gene editing i think hopefully and i'm optimistic that one day we will look
01:23:07
back at cancer and aging in the same way that we're talking about hiv today and that both of those diseases can and will
01:23:14
be resolved with the tools that we're developing through science and you know there's there's going to be bumps along
01:23:19
the road but man i you know it's so clear that he's going to go look i think i think what freeberg just
01:23:24
said actually is really important and inspiring and i think it's great and i was kind of joking around with the
01:23:29
fouchy thing i didn't expect it to become a tangent so i don't need to keep going on where do you see him
01:23:36
in editing trying to change his position no i'm not going to change anything keep that whole segment i'm just saying
01:23:40
i didn't can you use could i do a voiceover change you haven't become so argumentative we wouldn't have spent
01:23:45
five minutes on it if i can correct your incorrect position that she's intentionally on-ramp please because i
01:23:50
gotta fly to europe go okay here we go david sachs and paul graham have gotten into it
01:23:56
uh it's a battle for the ages and the stakes are so low the stakes are so high and the animosity is so high because the
01:24:04
stakes are so low uh here we go wait before this uh does phil hellmuth qualify this as a
01:24:12
billionaire battle or uh literally he revealed the billionaire if you follow phil hellmuth's account it's
01:24:23
being d.a greatest being dog greatest on twitter follow being d.a greatest to get that fella no phil
01:24:31
hellmuth outed he on his twitter our friend his new billionaire bestie is um his bill which he stole bestie from me i
01:24:39
used to call everybody best day he just co-opted it uh like he co-opted me calling tremont the dictator but i'll
01:24:44
tell the dictator origin story later is stan lee from doordash stanley tang co-founder chief product officer of
01:24:51
doordad great guy really great homeless ladies truffle exactly we found it okay here we go so if you
01:25:00
can introduce them to paul graham go ahead sex all right here here here's the issue to pick what's your beef here we
01:25:06
go actually i did not seek out this beef saks vendetta section of the pot no no listen
01:25:19
any billionaires out there who want to like debate like come waiting into my tweets mark cuban didn't make it made a
01:25:24
big ass to himself i don't want to deter these guys from from waiting in because
01:25:28
it's great here's what basically happened is i tweeted a video of all these multi-millionaire celebrity hypocrites
01:25:36
partying massless at the super bowl and then meanwhile the next day my three kids have to go to school in california
01:25:43
wearing their masks that is ridiculous okay it makes no sense we all know that okay any sane person knows
01:25:53
that that's what i tweeted about i don't know why of all issues that was triggering a pg but he had to come in
01:25:59
and say well they were all partying outdoors it's like really uh it looks to me like they're in a sky
01:26:04
box and if it has three walls and a ceiling i call that a room uh but in any event
01:26:09
that wasn't he was he was misinformed because the rule of the super bowl was that if
01:26:14
you were not eating and drinking anyone under over the age of two have to be wearing a mask
01:26:19
um so you know my point stands i just want to err so here here's where things kind of went south is um
01:26:27
is so then i tweeted uh blink twice you know paul and and here's the thing i wasn't
01:26:33
totally trying to be snarky with that comment um here here's why i said that is because explain what that means i
01:26:39
didn't understand that what does that mean blink twice well it means like you're a captor you're being held
01:26:44
kidnapped by these concepts that you have to wear no you're being held hostage by somebody and the
01:26:48
reason why i said that is because is is look if if pg had just been some crazy dumb person never would have said that
01:26:55
the fact is that pg is smart he writes extremely well publishes a lot of interesting things he's an
01:27:01
independent thinker so it almost seemed to me like somebody is holding him hostage here because how
01:27:06
can this really smart person be making this case anyway it kind of went south from there
01:27:14
so oh i i have no desire to continue that meanwhile kendall jenner wore north face
01:27:19
shoes to justin bieber's uh what yeah can you believe dear she knows that how did he do that gossip gossip gossip
01:27:28
all right so this has been sax's corner for the week uh can we make this a regular segment but
01:27:36
i'm making this segment but i want to say i want to stay on the main issue here which is
01:27:42
oh please let's do it every week but yeah but look am i wrong about this masked hypocrisy
01:27:49
that's going on how in the world are you kids picture of sacks in the mess no no
01:27:53
no no sax in the match i'll stop i want to air 100 support for saks on this statement i totally agree
01:27:59
with you on the mask hypocrisy as well as the mass mandates in schools i think it's ridiculous
01:28:04
we've pivoted so far away from first principle thinking on this stuff it's nuts i totally agree with you completely
01:28:11
and um on this point on you wasting your time fighting with people on twitter my
01:28:15
personal advice to you as a friend it's just cut it out but do what you gotta do
01:28:19
buddy but totally agree oh it's entertainment all right everybody for the dictator
01:28:24
himself chamath palihapatia man yeah david sachs and the sultan of science if you see him out
01:28:34
and about ask for a selfie sultan of science love selfies he does love you boys bye we'll see you all next time on
01:28:41
the all-in pod bye-bye love you besties bye-bye let your winners ride rain man we open sources to the fans and they've
01:28:55
just gone crazy with it [Music] besties [Music] we should all just get a room and just
01:29:17
have one big huge orgy because they're all just like this like sexual tension that they
01:29:21
just need to release somehow we need to get back i'm going on [Music]