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this is very good news for Cinema what just happened in the last couple minutes kirston Cinema has been declared the
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winner this is the first time that a Democrat will have won a senate seat in Arizona since 1976 the first woman ever
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to serve as senator in Arizona so it's a very big deal censured by the Arizona Democratic party Kiren Cinema announcing
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she's leaving the Democratic party she's going to be leaving the Senate if you ever meet someone with whom you agree
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100% either they're a liar or you're not thinking for yourself ladies and Gentlemen please welcome Senator
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Cinema thanks for coming absolutely thank you for being here how are you hey good to see
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you all right well I think you uh heard JD I listen to some of it you listen to some of it you caught some yeah I listen
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to the whole thing what's your take on JD and um you know if he were to be called called on to be president which
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is the the nature of that job uh God forbid for whatever reason um how do you think he would do as president well
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first let me say JD and I have been friends for quite some time you know we sered together in the Senate we have a
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great relationship we don't agree on everything um what I really appreciate about JD is that it doesn't bother him
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that we don't agree on everything right I know that sounds strange but not here right I mean yeah obviously you guys um
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there's this this thing that I think is kind of disturbing that's happened in American politics and it's this idea
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that you either have to agree with someone 100% of the time or they are your mortal enemy and must be destroyed
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right and the two parties actually talk about each other in this like existential threat way right like the
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only way the country will be safe is if we completely eliminate the existence of
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the other party but if you think about that that's actually incredibly dangerous right yeah it's incredibly
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dangerous to have one party yes it's called China and Russia exactly that's exactly right so what we really want in
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this country I what I really want is a robust Marketplace of ideas and not only the idea that you can tolerate that
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someone else has an idea different than your own but that you can welcome the idea that someone has a different idea
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than your own because you might I know this sounds crazy learn from that other idea and over time change or grow your
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opinion it's an opportunity and so that's one of my favorite things about JD is that he and I have areas where we
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share opinion very closely and we have areas where we don't share the same opinion and it's not a problem at all
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like we're both comfortable with the idea of difference of opinion I think that's core to the idea of who you want
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in a leader why has that happened so why why have we found ourselves in a place where we are
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intolerant of the other party's ideas and we are intolerant of members of the other party well what's D what's Driven
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this change the I will say that the term we doesn't apply to me obviously um like
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because when people told me to do that I was like yeah no I'm not going to do that at all and um they were like you're
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excused and right so and for those who don't know your background you left the Democratic party that's right and as a
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as a as a sitting Senator yes right yes that's right um because I think you should have your own
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opinion I'm pretty straightforward yeah and so how does that how does that phone
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call go do you call Chuck and say I have something to tell you or or actually more importantly joking aside how did
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that Evolution happen for you so you started out you're in Arizona you start out as a clear Democrat that wins you
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the actually so turn back time um great song um when I first ran for office very
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young like in my 20s I ran as an independent and I came in dead last yeah um and then I re-registered as a
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Democrat ran for the same office came in first and then you fast forward changed
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nothing meaning in terms of what you said my hair changes all the time but apart from that nothing changed right so
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uh re-registered as a Democrat came in first served in the state house for seven for six years served in the state
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senate for a term ran for the US Congress won a competitive District slightly more Republican than Democrat I
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won I served in that seat for six years ran for the Senate became the first woman ever to win a senate race in
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Arizona um more importantly I was the first member of of at the time the Democratic
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party in over 30 years to win a senate SE in Arizona um but I was never a traditional Democrat and those who've
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known me for a long time have always known that that I just am not interested in fitting into a box and never have
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been and so I've always been me um there came a point where me being me no longer
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fit within the Democratic party and they were really uncomfortable having me in the party and so I made it easier for
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them by leaving and it made everyone happier um I was a lot happier cuz I was being more genuine um but what what
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dides that mean just double click into you being you what is that that was that made them so uncomfortable well I'll
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give you an example my my first vote in the United States Senate was a vote on the issue of Israel and I got a call
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from at the time minority leader Chuck Schumer and he asked me to vote no on on the measure and I said well there's zero
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chance I'm voting no on this measure this is a this is a vote to stand with Israel like the I vote no is a hard
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zero he was like ah this is partisan and we got to be a unity and and I don't like I'm not going to share the details
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of that conversation but it was a it was a partisan conversation and for me I was
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like this I'm I'm confused about the nature of this conversation because the idea that I'm going to change my vote
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because someone else wants me to is never going to happen right the only thing that would cause me to change my
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vote is to get new information that changes the calculus for my decision right cuz that's a sign of growth and
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learning is if you get new information right there was no new information it was just a party vote and I said yeah
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well I don't need to go to the party like I'm going to vote the way that I believe and um for me that didn't seem
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like a particularly important moment it's just how I am but it that that was problematic for other people is there a
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lot of pressure in the way that politics happens on the ground which is a lot of
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you in the Senate may come to a conclusion or an opinion but before that vote is cast there's just on both sides
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tremendous pressure to reassign whatever you underwrote it almost hey it doesn't
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matter now we got to tow the party line is there a lot of that yeah I mean the the biggest example of that would be
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what I think is the most important vote I've ever taken in my entire life and that was the vote to protect the
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filibuster the the pressure around that vote was severe me want to explain that to folks just uh yeah so the filibuster
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is a provision in the United States Senate it's a rule it's not constitutional but it's a rule that
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requires that any major piece of legislation any policy related legislation requires the approval of 60
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Senators rather than 51 right so a super majority in order to move forward to debate discuss and pass the piece of
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legislation now there are some people who hate the filibuster because they like to have all the power when they
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have the power and I think it's very dangerous to eliminate the filibuster the filibuster is like a control
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mechanism that keeps the Senate from ricocheting back and forth between the wild edges of the political pressure
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from either party now some people will say well the the filibusters knew it wasn't always around well that's true
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because when the Senate was founded it took a hundred Senators to move forward on a piece of legislation right a 100
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and it's eroded down to 60 I believe it would be very dangerous to eliminate that and allow it to be a simple
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majority the Senate would become the house and for God's sake I served there for six years there's a reason I went to
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the Senate right the idea is that the Senate is a place that represents all of the views
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of the country including areas that are rural or small or have been left behind minority opinions must be protected and
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celebrated in the United States Senate but there was intense pressure intense pressure to eliminate the
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filibuster now the thing that's interesting is that pressure had zero impact on me yeah like zero none and
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people thought it was going to they were like oh we're going to get her we're going to get her and I just was like
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sure I'll go to Every meeting you'd like and I'll I went to every single meeting
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I listened to everyone no one ever gave me any information that led me to think it would be a good idea to get rid of
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the last vestage of bipartisanship in the United States Senate is there a knowing what you know now um is there
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a path out of this I mean and how much more toxic has it gotten over the years yeah and why and why we didn't get to
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the why like what's what's Driven the extreme partisanship the the the inability to have dialogue the the lack
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of the idea cauldron like what's well it has gotten a lot worse I mean I've been
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doing this for 20 years and obviously started in elementary school but um I've been doing it for a long time and it has
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gotten it has gotten much more severe much more partisan uh you know there are a number of factors for that um but I
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think a large part of it is that we as Americans we all of us are choosing people who agree with
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100% of the time because it feels good even if those individuals don't get done like they don't return any results
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but they will make a Tik Tok telling you how your view is so right and and and it's now become out of favor to support
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someone with whom you agree with only 60% of the time when the reality is is that if you find someone with whom you
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agree with only 60% of the time they're thinking for themselves and so are you but if you find someone with whom you
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agree with 100% of the time either they're lying to you or you're not thinking for yourself and those are two
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very dangerous things both very dangerous so it has gotten more and more extreme because our political system
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rewards those who say the things that are not true in order to get the Applause and the likes and the support
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money Etc and punish those who say the things that are true but are not everything you want you know does that
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mean that democracy eventually dies no I don't think so our country's been through much worse I mean we had a civil
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war it it I do think it gets worse for a while before it gets better you know and
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to Jason's question how does it get better well I think it gets really bad um and then when it gets pretty bad
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people are like oh we got to do something like this is our only country and then you know it kind of comes back
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is that this moment now yeah no I don't think we're there yet uh what what what play out the scenarios here commo wins
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Trump wins we spend another 8 trillion in debt and we and how many more cyes cares about debt neither party cares
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aboutt let's be honest on both sides yeah but which means it's going to happen so we're sitting here
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maybe two more Cycles from now and we've put another 15 trillion down you know on
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this and then when does it break what is the what is the um um impetus to make that change when does it break down when
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do we hit rock bottom sure I know the answer to that and anyone who tells you they do is probably lying because what
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are the possibilities that you see from inside the machine of this really breaking yeah there are some challenges
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head right I mean uh Congress spends like a drunken sailor with no thought for the future we are running to the
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tape on ISS on on being able to fund things like Social Security and Medicare and Congress is doing nothing to solve
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it right there's actually a little Coalition of us who are trying to solve those problems um Cassidy Senator
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Cassidy Senator King myself and when we went to go talk to our colleagues on both sides of the aisle they were like
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no let's wait till after the election yeah that's totally going to make it better right like things are going to be
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totally good after the election like they're just putting off that which is uncomfortable because the solution to
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those fiscal problems require sacrifice in the short term and elected officials are not willing to sacrifice anything in
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the short term because it means that they may not get re-elected and if their number one goal is to survive then
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they're not going to make the hard decisions can we talk about that for a second can you just explain to us the
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underbelly of Politics the money in politics the people that you have to um time with how the money Cycle Works how
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did you feel that pressure if it all even if I'm not saying you responded to it but maybe just to explain to it well
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it does take millions and millions and millions of dollars to run for office I mean a senate seat in Arizona is like
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what $150 million um so so you you do need a lot of help sorry to win this to win a senate seat it's 150 million bucks
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in Arizona not yeah in Arizona but there are some states in which it probably cost you know way less because it's not
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competitive but in a competitive State you know it's going to be very very expensive
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but you know I look there is always pressure to raise the money but you can go about it however you want to go about
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it most people go about it the easy way which is to just kind of Follow The Line
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that the party has given and then the machine lines it up to give you the money if you choose not to follow the
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line then which is the path that I took then you have to find folks who are also
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unusual and don't fit easily into a party line that's support that's a very important thing you're saying so
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essentially is if you inform which means that in those times where you get the phone
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call you have to basically tow the line otherwise the money spigot stops is that
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right or no is that is it not that drastic I mean it was that drastic for me after the filibuster vote everyone
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was like we hate you clunk um and I was like right but I am protecting democracy
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so call me back later click um they had not called back um that day is coming guys um so the way
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you're framing it though I think is maybe not exactly correct because what you're saying is you have to do the
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party line thing in order to stay in the thing that that I think it's important to remember is most people want to do
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the party line thing right it's not like they're sitting around going like oh I really don't want to vote this way but I
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really feel like I have to to save my career there's this thing about being part of the club people want to be part
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of the club and so it's not like the thumb is you know being pushed down on lots of people to get them to do a
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certain thing they're doing it because they're part of the club does that make sense right it it makes sense I don't
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understand that me either obviously but I get it so first of all I want to say that I wholeheartedly agree with you
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about the need to have a free Marketplace of ideas where people can debate these issues without any fear of
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reprisal and um I think it's sentiments like that that made me support you as when you know you were a senator and a
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Democrat people may be surprised to find out that actually we we co-hosted an event with you a few years ago uh cuz I
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look for opportunities to support Democrats when I can when they're independent minded so
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I DAV always appreciate that about you so um for that yeah that's exactly weast um I want to go back to the first year
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of the the Biden Administration 2021 and I don't know if people remember but that
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whole year uh domestic politics was royed by a piece of legislation called build back better this is a $4.5
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trillion spending package that actually originally was six remember a six trilon
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like that's like Bonkers they yeah they brought it down six and uh whatever whatever yeah
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and um you know it it eventually failed because every Republican voted against it uh and two Democrats you and Senator
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Mansion voted against it as I recall the the thing that always seemed really crazy to me is you know beyond
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just the sheer amount of this spending package which now everyone looks at the deficit in the debt and they're like you
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know it's already crazy enough as it is without that having passed imagine if it
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did pass yeah um and our economy can you imagine yeah it would it would have been
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a total disaster I think um and but the the the amazing thing to me was that we had this year-long debate in Washington
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and they never just came to you and Mansion at the beginning of the process and just said what are you guys willing
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to do because you were the swing votes right right and instead they spent a year like pushing for this thing and
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then I guess they expected to kind of jam it through at the end put enough pressure on you to vote for this I
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actually had this discussion with um Schumer and the White House in the summer of 21 so um I'm sure all of you
00:16:45
remember all this you know because this is what you do in your lives is think about the work that I'm doing in the
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United States Senate but um in February of 2021 after we passed um that a big Co
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package which you know we passed a pretty sizable Co package I was worried that it wasn't paid for I was worried
00:17:03
about the impact this would have on the economy turns out all that was right um I went to Schumer right the day after
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that and said look I know that you want to do infrastructure next and I want to do infrastructure because infrastructure
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is really important for the future of economic growth and competitiv in our country but I want to do it in a
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bipartisan way because this is that that's what we should be doing in the Senate and he said something to me along
00:17:25
the lines of we'd love to have the Republicans with us if they'd like to come that'd be great and was like well
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see my idea of Byers ship is a little bit different it's more about the sit down and work together and create
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something together and then have a product that you put up together rather than just building it and asking someone
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to come and jump on your train and so um you know people just kind of Pat patted
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me on the head and I went out and started working with Rob Portman who has since retired but let me tell you what
00:17:49
super smart very nerdy great with a spreadsheet right like I was like that's my guy right there and so Rob and I
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began working quietly Just the Two of Us um doing nuts and bolts of like how to build an infrastructure plan after we
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gained some steam we began inviting others so it ended up that we had a really carefully curated group of five
00:18:09
Dems and five Republicans all moderates and conservatives working on infrastructure and we began we we got to
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a place where our infrastructure bill was going to go you all may recall we actually we actually got it done um and
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it was paid for but while we were almost at the point of voting on the infrastructure pack package that's when
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the White House unveiled build back better and I actually put out a public statement which is very rare for me
00:18:36
saying there's no way I'm going to vote for that package because it cost eight bazillion dollars and it was
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irresponsible and oh they were so pissed off they're like why did you say that I'm like well I think it's important for
00:18:47
everyone to know that there's zero chance I vote for that and I want to say it now so I don't get jammed later right
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CU I would rather disappoint people today rather than disappoint them the day of the vote I want them to know I
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will never vote for this and the pressure just grew from there didn't work obviously um because there
00:19:03
was zero chance in which I was going to vote for $4 half trillion dollars of new
00:19:06
taxes many of which are being debated right now in the presidential campaign and which are Bonkers um and so I I just
00:19:13
I said no I said no early on so I did start engaging with the white house after that and they said well what would
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you vote for and I said here and I created a spreadsheet and I said here are all the tax policies that you're
00:19:25
interested in here are the ones that I'm willing to consider it was a small list
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and they just didn't believe me for a long time it took a year took about 14 months 14 months later they believe me
00:19:40
when I said here are the policies I will support here are the ones I will not support but it took 14 months before
00:19:45
people believed that I meant what I said about tax policy we um when JD was up here um and thank you for that work by
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the way and that uh Independence um It just strikes me before you move on Jason that we could have voided so much ranker
00:20:00
over the first one to two years of the Biden Administration if they just listened to you because you were trying
00:20:06
to find what I said you were trying to find you know it was a very it was close to a 50/50 senate or I guess it was a 50
00:20:12
it was 5050 5050 it was 50/50 right so it's not like President Biden had an LBJ like mandate to push through massive new
00:20:20
spent tax times and uh so in any event I just it's always seemed crazy to me that
00:20:25
they didn't listen to you and they didn't try and find that bipartisan compromise very early on we could have
00:20:32
avoided you know so much of of this um you know the this again the ranker but here's the thing David um and then I
00:20:39
want to get to your point but look both parties do this so I I don't want it I don't want to sound like I'm just you
00:20:44
know all over Biden and Schumer because look when Trump was president and he controlled all the chambers he he
00:20:50
did the same thing so there's there are no there's no Purity here right when one
00:20:55
party has total control they over use it that is what happens because when a party gets power they think they're
00:21:03
going to have it forever they overreach and then the system corrects and so one might suggest just maybe suggest that a
00:21:10
small amount of humility would help here to think that perhaps when you do have power you may not always have power and
00:21:16
that it would be good and it would serve you well to always consider other people's positions minority positions
00:21:21
even if they are not the same as your own because there will come a time when those individuals have the power and
00:21:27
that perhaps if you're interested in like having some stability and predictability in our country that
00:21:32
finding that more moderate ground is always good regardless of which parties in power that's very unpopular what I
00:21:38
just said um I'm curious um when we look at this two-party system if there is a way out
00:21:48
of it and to maybe create a little bit more choice for um and a little bit more uh competition and and have a a viable
00:21:56
third party actually you uh explained in the last panel how you know Kennedy to Trump and you know uh Cheney to uh kamla
00:22:05
it's very strange times we're living in and most of us don't feel that either party represents us fully sax doesn't
00:22:12
believe with these neocons starting Wars everywhere Etc so is it possible for us
00:22:16
to have a viable third party because you seem to be also partless and which I'm fine with party
00:22:23
one is great guys I love it party one sit at the bar just perfect yes I love it it's great too um the nice thing
00:22:31
about being a party of one is you get to have the entire platform to yourself like if people are like what's your
00:22:36
party platform well I made it up because it's all my ideas it's wonderful um so you know there was an attempt this year
00:22:42
to try and create a third party option the group No Labels with whom I have a great relationship with and a lot of
00:22:48
respect for um worked on it the it the time is not ripe for that that was obvious like why is this I'm not right I
00:22:54
don't I don't know that I can answer that for you um my ass mment is that many people in America are so scared of
00:23:02
what the other party represents and the potential overreach that comes from the other party's positions and the story
00:23:08
that has been created that the existence of the other party is an existential threat to the future of our country like
00:23:14
that's a story that both parties tell I I think because of that most Americans are they're dissatisfied with the
00:23:21
parties but they don't feel confident or comfortable enough to go somewhere else
00:23:26
because they're not sure what it will bring and the fear of the other is at an all-time high I'm curious in this
00:23:32
audience putting this election cycle aside how many people would like to see us have a third or fourth option a third
00:23:37
or fourth party raise your hand okay that's like everybody in the audience like I don't un L parties one what's up
00:23:44
a lot of parties have won yeah I mean I think more americ R got 19% it looked like uh Bobby Kennedy had at the peak
00:23:51
what 15 20 yeah I mean it it does seem like and and people really wanted no labels to
00:23:57
put up Mansion maybe yourself or no no no I'm overqualified what would you would you what's next for
00:24:06
you are you going to consider running or you want to be in the private sector you
00:24:10
just want to excited about what's happening in the private sector right now I mean we've got Industries in this
00:24:16
country that are really pushing the edge on what's going to ensure that we're globally competitive and Innovative for
00:24:21
the future and I'm really excited about it and I I believe that regardless of what's happening in government because
00:24:29
as I mentioned earlier I do think it's going to get worse gridlock going to get tougher and blah blah blah people are
00:24:34
not interested in solving problems they're disinterested and ticktock and so um there there's a real opportunity
00:24:41
to move our country forward despite the gridlock in government through Private Industry and that's where I want to work
00:24:50
why why are the Democrats so anti- capitalist I I don't understand because that's where the money comes from yeah I
00:24:55
just don't understand spent of being so either yeah you know I am um I'm fairly libertarian I think you know just at my
00:25:04
base most arizonans are um I I I I struggle with the idea of wanting to eliminate the Private
00:25:14
Industry because that is where the ideas come from that's where the Innovation comes from and that's where the money
00:25:19
comes from to fund the social programs that are important to prot country was built on yeah this country had nothing
00:25:27
250 years ago and the ability to innovate the opportunity for entrepreneurs to build and for people to
00:25:34
partake in that created productivity gains and ultimately prosperity for everyone and it makes no sense to stall
00:25:39
it it just doesn't make any sense like I don't understand it do you um when you look at the Israel Palestine conflict
00:25:47
has any of this was it is this expected the way that this there's this fissure that's built in America now the fissure
00:25:53
that's been created in West growing um it's been growing you know I'm I'm quite close with the pro is community not just
00:25:59
in Arizona but nationally because Israel is our only Democratic partner in the Middle East and is one of the best
00:26:04
Partners to the United States and has been since its Inception um but anti-Semitism has long been a
00:26:14
part of our country's history and it has been growing the difference is is that it was kind of quie is you know it was
00:26:20
happening on campuses with the anti-bds movement um it was growing um in a number of circles on both the far left
00:26:26
and the far right um and and what we've seen you know in in the last year um is that it's now okay to say the quiet part
00:26:35
out loud what what's boggling to my mind as and I don't talk about this very often because it makes me sound really
00:26:41
nerdy but I actually um I actually have studied genocide like I did a PhD on the
00:26:47
Rwandan Genocide right which Super nerdy I know but the narrative that somehow Israel
00:26:56
are the oppressors and Hamas are the liberators and then there are folks who are actually using the term genocide to
00:27:04
talk about the Israeli government and the Israeli people is so insane like that's
00:27:11
insane I mean talk about the worst form of gaslighting you can even imagine right
00:27:20
like it's just insane and yet it's not a surprise because if you've been paying attention it's been percolating and
00:27:27
growing for years and folks in the pro-israel community know this and they've been talking about
00:27:31
it it's just that no one was really listening because it was all whisper whisper whisper or just you know kids on
00:27:36
campuses but now we see happening especially at these so-called Elite universities where not only has the
00:27:42
pramas movement take over taken over but the faculty that the folks who were in responsible for the educational
00:27:51
environment have shown an unwillingness to speak the truth right which I think is just disturbing is there a path to
00:28:01
find a empathetic solution for the Palestinians while also at the same time eliminating Hamas and of getting past
00:28:10
this problem after the vast majority of Palestinian people are living in an environment in which they don't have
00:28:15
control over their daily lives they don't get access to the food and the water they need they're being used as
00:28:20
human Shields and political weapons and physical weapons by Hamas and so they are in just an horri horrible horrible
00:28:29
situation and so the work that we've been trying to do to navigate how to get relief or evacuation for those
00:28:35
individuals is really important and should not be eliminated or cut off but we also need to be much much more
00:28:41
careful about who we're giving the money and the food and the supplies to because
00:28:45
we know that the majority of it is being siphoned off by Hamas and used as a weapon of War um is there a solution
00:28:51
that can protect the innocent lives absolutely um is standing with Hamas that solution
00:28:58
no that's like doing a rally for Isis like what the hell is like how did we not see this
00:29:05
like we could have just gone to Harvard but how how are young people at Harvard and Colombia and Yale how come they
00:29:12
can't they don't all of a sudden that distinction isn't obvious to them it is hard for me to understand this now I am
00:29:17
lucky enough to live in Arizona and we just don't have this there's a very small amount of this very small on our
00:29:24
campuses but the vast majority of students in Arizona these are like regular kids
00:29:28
these are not you know fancy kids these are regular kids they go to regular schools they live a regular life and
00:29:33
they go to a regular state school and so they don't wake up in the morning and think I think I want to support those
00:29:38
terrorists over there in the Middle East right like and so I think there's one of
00:29:43
the problems that I see in Academia and full disclosure I I have been a professor at Arizona State University
00:29:49
for 21 years so I I teach I'm te I teach this semester i' I've been teaching non-stop for 21 years um but I teach in
00:29:58
a climate where my students are expected to be triggered or whatever that word is
00:30:04
I think that's a stupid word but the bottom line is this there's this whole thing moving across the country where
00:30:08
we're like oh we can't have any triggering conversations we can't have conversations make you uncomfortable
00:30:13
that is the whole purpose of college the whole idea of the university is to go learn about the universe you should be
00:30:18
confronted with ideas that are different than your own you should interact with people who have views that are different
00:30:22
than your own you should be open to learning and listening and changing and growing that is the reason that you go
00:30:28
to university right and that is being taken away Senator Cinema thank you for being
00:30:35
with US senator Cinema [Applause]