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all right everybody welcome back to the Allin podcast the number one Finance technology business and Maga
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podcast in the world with us again today is the sulate of science David freeberg living a
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modern 1950s aesthetic lifestyle there this is the uh House of Tomorrow House of the future world at the original um
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1955 Tomorrowland at Disneyland wow and you have a NASA hat on this is amazing he's in full geek out mode yeah I didn't
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this I told you guys about this haircut last week because you couldn't blow yourself that's right properly I told
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you this would happen to you it's exactly what your M said would happen look at the continuity he told you you
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could never match the blow you got last week and here we are I did my best I mean it looks ridiculous but stylish in
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a way and with us again your chairman dictator chamath poly hop he's ready to go to the
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inauguration and take his Victory lap and take an enormous amount of credit shamad are you looking forward to your
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Victory lap I was in Florida earlier this week I came all the way back so that I could play poker with my friends
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and see my family and children oh nice and I'll be flying all the way back out tomorrow morning were you at maral Lago
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no I was with my friend in a undisclosed location with a friend in an undisclosed
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location okay sounds great and joining us for the first time one of my oldest friends Mr Mark Pinkus or as we like to
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say Marcus Pinkus why do you always take credit for these guests being only your
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friends the rest of us are the ones that call them and are like hey do you want to come on the show and then you're like
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my old think longer than you I don't know about that is that true back to like AOL yeah well we met when you were
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doing silicon alley right reporter yeah in the 90s I've been collecting rent from Mark pinkis for the last year it's
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true my landlord you should whistleblow on freeberg to Gavin's gouging police and see if you can get
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some let your winners [Music] ride [Music] David we open sources to the fans and
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they've just gone crazy with it Queen we'll get right to that in a minute uh the price couch continues if our viewers
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had to vote on who is most likely to price couch it's 100% free BR th% but let's be clear the real gouging is the
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predio trust who's charging an amazingly high rent like over $100 a foot and then
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freeberg was actually giving me a pretty good deal he was getting a pretty good deal I was paying like 130 a foot or
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something 120 130 a foot all in uh for real estate in the Presidio and we just weren't using the space but it is the
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most expensive real estate it is nuts quite an office my Lord the prio trust manages that federal land and they get
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to keep all the money and reinvest it it's probably the only profitable operation in the federal government I
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used to be on the board so I I saw it close up and they they reinvest in things like you know restoring natural
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habitats cutting down eucalyptus trees right you know archaeological digs right right it was really interesting I looked
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at one of those those houses to rent when it was first moving up to San Francisco and the only problem
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with those houses have these gorgeous houses that were like the General's houses like three four five bedrooms but
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they would have one bathroom right for four rooms and I like can you put another bathroom and cannot
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change anything these are historic privileges so you know historic landmarks marked it freeloader tribe
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social network back in the day support.com and if you wasted some portion of your youth playing
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Farmville he was one of the original app creators or Zinga poker which famously he said hey would you like to be an
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investor in Zinga poker and I said how does it work he said oh well you play for virtual coins and I said Mark this
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is the stupidest thing I've ever heard you've taken all of the money out of the the the game it's never going to work
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and of course he turned it into a multi-billion dollar company and that was another $25 million Angel investment
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Miss on my part but Mark you were also like early General social networking you were involved in Facebook as an investor
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Linked In weren't you like ear on yeah I I think the first social media investment I made was Napster I sent the
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first check Wow first $100,000 I think of that as the beginning of all this but then yeah Reed and I put up the first
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money for friender and then we were lucky enough to invest along with Peter in the first
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round Facebook wow the First on on Twitter so yeah like pick the right body of water even if your boat doesn't tribe
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didn't work but but you placed five other bats so you hit a couple of them it works out
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just fine you uh I believe you owned the six degrees patents the original social
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network in the 90s in web 1.0 was a company called six degrees and uh they had a bunch of patents and I believe you
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bought them and then sold them to Facebook yeah no we didn't sell them Reed and I bought them because we were
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worried that if Yahoo at the time had gotten them or even Friendster that they would have blocked the whole industry so
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we bought them we we paid 750k which was a lot then and we were accused of being
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patent trolls and we never got that opportunity we just sat on them to this day actually I own half and Microsoft
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owns other half are you still close with with Reed Mark yeah very close how did you guys reconcile your differences and
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political views in this last election because he was very vocal kamla you obviously became vocal Trump and very
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kind of kind of diametrically different views on the future well it's interesting because
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Reed and I really started the whole kind of journey into bigger National politics
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together we both sat down and had lunch with Biden and made wrote big checks uh a little over a year ago December of
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23 and and then you know won't bother you but I I had my red pill moment and I went a very different direction which
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started off just questioning the Democrats hold on hold on can you actually just double click into that
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what was your red pill moment was there one specific thing or was it more of a trickle of things it was both right it
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starts the wall starts crumbling and then it comes down all at once so for me it really
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started early in 23 I started reading pirate wires and Mike salana and I thought he was a little crazy at first
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because he would write these articles one he wrote was about how the Ukrainian soldiers had swastikas on their helmets
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in the New York Times photographers would ask them to take the saskas off for photos and I said that can't be
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right that can't be true and then four months later it was in the New York Times buried in the middle of
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the paper and I kept seeing stories like that that that he would be early on and
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so I just started feeling uncomfortable and Queasy about what was going on with mainstream media and then in May of last
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year of 24 I read some article that talked about Trump's speech in Charlottesville and this has been well
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covered but but where he said there was good people on both sides Ides and the article said it was completely you know
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propaganda and not what he actually not accurately reflecting what he said that uh that he denounced the Nazis a bunch
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of times in his speech and so then I went and watched that video and that was my red pill moment I think it was for a
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lot of people because it wasn't just the media spinning it or politicians spinning it that was like one of the
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pillars of why you were supposed to hate Trump that speech and and then you see Biden say that's why he had to run a
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second time and you see Obama go to you even see Biden bring it up again in the beginning of the DNC and it's one of
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their pillars and they clearly know that they're misrepresenting things so for me
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that was just that was beyond uncomfortable I was just like okay now I got to go back to First principles and
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look at the primary data and listen only to original speech by people and I just
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realized I couldn't trust mainstream media so I was I became I started questioning the Democrats as soon as I
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started questioning the Democrats I started getting a lot of Shame and anger and hatred oh the other thing that
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happened those part of this journey is that my chief of staff parted ways with me after nine years in April of last
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year and he was the main person protecting me from myself on Twitter and he was the one who would say stay in
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your lane nobody wants to hear what you think about politics or San Francisco or
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anything other than you know your area of products and investing and with him gone I just started tweeting whatever I
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felt and thought and sometimes I got it wrong or it was a little too emotional but first of all it was really fun and
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then second of all I found I got connected to this whole new audience of people who are these kind of techno
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optimists I think you guys probably talked about it and that just brought me down this path that
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eventually I came out two days before the election publicly for Trump um and it was only because that's when I
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completely got there and I was trying to just be completely honest and authentic
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with myself and on Twitter at the same time and my daughters turned to me that Sunday and they said you're you're going
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to vote for Trump we know it and I said yeah you're probably right and they said
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well then you have to go say it on Twitter and my daughter's like really in this with me yeah so anyway and then it
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was on the front page of the New York Post on the day of the election that I was uh this not that I'm such news but
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maybe it just was their news Peg um that I was coming out for Trump and but I'll
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get back to your re question but what I love about my New York Times about my New York friends is that they did not
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give a they were all proa and they texted me and they're just like oh that's kind of funny but it's one thing
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I kind of love about New York they didn't care back to your question on Reed what I love about Reed was he was
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already getting pings from people saying what's going on with pinkis he's going off the rails he's becoming a Trumper
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you know it's you guys I'm sure have gone down got a little bit of that too about shamas in
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freeberg yeah me like what's wrong with him we got to bring him back into the fold you know he's he's should we lock
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him up is he crazy um and so Reed was already getting these I had a lot of anxiety about talking to Reed about it
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and finally Reed and I got on FaceTime and he just said I just want to start by saying I'm team Mark and I said
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I'm team Reed and it gets out a little you know a a but well no Americans can get along even if they disagree ically
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about a candidate is probably where we need to get to especially you know now that Trump's going to be in office in a
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couple of days what was it like when you had for Biden yeah okay well just to finish the read part sorry but no
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problem what what I love about Reed is that we followed that with a 4-Hour dinner and he said I never questioned
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your principles he said I know you're a highly principled person and I just want
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to understand which principles it is and I'd like to convince to change your mind
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but anyway so was hold on one second so I you said something almost in passing but I just want to double click
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I think part of what Silicon Valley actually gets wrong is that we don't embrace the tism and what I mean by that
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is everybody we're all a little socially uncomfortable we awkward I wouldn't say
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that we were the coolest people growing up and there this virulent form of blockers you called it Chief of Staff I
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think that these folks can be very detrimental which almost represent this filter between your true self and
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everybody else and there is this game that's played about being a gatekeeper I do think that executive
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assistants are valuable administrative assistance are valuable the reason I can say this is that my EA went on maternity
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leave I had and I experimented with a chief of staff Etc and now I use Jason service called Athena and I have a guy
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that works with me in the Philippines and it's about 3,000 a month and I can honestly tell you this guy is
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the single most effective administrative support I've ever had and what there isn't is all these opinions on what I
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can say or do and I think that when you look at a lot of these big companies if you look at zuck's current
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transformation or what you just spoke about there are all these Interlopers that seem to get in the
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middle of you and people's perception of you I don't know if you have any comments or reactions to that idea yeah
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it's part of where I know you guys have talked about Zuck coming out as Lisa's based or his seemingly more authentic
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self or sharing more about himself and I can relate to it because I think we all
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go through this this struggle as you start to be more of a known person inside your company outside your company
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and you have people around you taking the edges off and I think that we're now in this time that I think we're having
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authenticity is having a moment now which is great for me because Reed said to me I I've if you Google me you'll see
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that there's lots and lots of bad things written about me and a lot of it is my high school quote was some people have
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tacked and others tell the truth and I've always been kind of just committed to being honest even if it's nuanced and
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it's not an easy sound bite and Reed said to me early on you need to pick what the easy narrative is or the Press
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is going to make it up for you and he was right and they did or my competitors did so I think that now with long form
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podcasts and there's just more and the fact that we can kind of directly in a lot of ways Elon was the first one to
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directly defend himself you remember when well he fired his whole do you remember when he fired his whole PR team
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he fired all those people there's just like there's none of that infrastructure between him and and everybody else but
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do you remember when he would be on Twitter all the time post PayPal trying to correct the story and just write long
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long diet tribes and then and then when a New York Times reported said something
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negative about a Tesla he just went off for weeks about them and and it seemed a
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little crazy and deranged and then you started to see that it worked like he actually and we were told don't defend
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yourself if something bad is written about you you're going to prolong the press cycle you're going to make the
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journalist angry and so we've we're now Unshackled I I teach this class at Stanford and I
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taught two backtack on Monday and I looked around and I saw half the plaque her said you know she her you know he
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him his and I got a little Pang of like oh do I have to watch what I'm saying I'm like no I don't I'm Unshackled I'm
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just gonna this is just me and I'm gonna be Mark unfiltered and it's the better version of ourselves so anyway I I'm
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glad that Zuck feels like he can be he can present more of his complete self out there now and I think we can get
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into it later but I have a lot of thoughts on how the culture is going to kind of move more towards Bas back to
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the other question with Biden that lunch you had did he seem like he was all there yeah come on was it in the
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afternoon I mean did you have concerns about that that was sharp as attack that was thing that broke me I mean I'm not
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saying I'm like full mag over here I was like wait a second are you guys lying about this like how long is this and how
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deep is this cover up I have no horse in this race I didn't have a horse in the race so I had nothing to lie about I for
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sure don't now I'm really not a Biden fan or protector I'll tell you like the exact
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my exact observation we we had this lunch there was like maybe five of us with Biden and a few of his Finance
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people in they had it in the tennis house which is the way they found that they can have a fundraising lunch on the
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property of the White House they found some way we'll see if if Trump does it hole right yeah the loophole and and it
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was I was impressed it was a long launch it must have been hour and a half two hours and I'll tell you the good and the
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bad the good the part I was impressed was he kept the conversation thread he was engaged and kept the thread the
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whole time when people you say sharp as attack or kept the thread that's how we talk about like our 90-year-old
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grandparent or something so I'm just saying the reality to me he he was not he did not seem mentally debilitated
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in the sense of dementia but we were impressed that he was able to follow the conversation
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thread and then say you know but okay let me say it differently would you have had the same bar if it was Jamie Diamond
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sitting across from you for 2our lunch no no so so so yes it was it was wow your grandfather is holding up
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really well like your grandfather was able to have a whole lunch and hold the conversation but it wasn't I didn't walk
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away saying I I have to admit I did not walk away saying I think he's mentally unfit but I did but and I wasn't shocked
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but I was like okay this is someone who's being really handled and managed by the people around him and he's being
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told to show up here say say this but I will say he was he was not on an obvious
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script which I know I think famously he did some fundraiser at vod's house where
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he was reading a prompter the whole time so wasn't reading a prompter yeah that at a at a person's
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home they brought a teleprompter for him to speak wow that's you didn't hear that
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I didn't actually that's new information that's yeah crazy but I mean In fairness
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like the um there's this issue called Sun Downing people who are in that age group they're good in the day and then
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the sun goes down and you know their brains are exhausted and and that's when you would see it and that's what they
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said about the debate but for me that was the the coronation of comma and like not actually having a speedrun primary
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that to me was just anti-democratic anti-American and like just what happened to Meritt and like having a
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process here right that's when I felt like the party just CED I'm glad you're here let's jump um okay
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but let me ask you a question before we get into the doc we got a lot to talk about obviously but what do you think
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the Democratic party does from here like is everybody's like this they're lost in
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a drift we're not even hearing from them maybe a little bit of uh push back I guess at
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these Senate hearings right now for confirmations but what do you think happens is there any hope for this and
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and who would lead them out of this Shapiro somebody AOC I think that what my brain my kind
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of intelligent front of brain would tell me the logical thing which I think I want to say is one lens that I think we
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have to be careful not to just apply logic here because it's parties and and the Democrats but the logic would say oh
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they're going to find based authentic people to put up against these other ones like the kind of Federman types
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that they're going to put those people forth who are more Centrist and also are more trustworthy that they're actually
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authentic in their flaws that's what my brain would tell me I think there'll be a little of that that the party I
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believe is will move more that way I think that the corporate candidates aren't going to fly anymore with the
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electorate I think that the managed corporate through sound bites can't do a long form things like this I think
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that's over and we can get into that later if we want but I think they won't go as far as they should so so they the
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they won't go as far as like what I think we would intelligently advise them to do so so that's as much as I can
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figure out that they should do that but they won't interesting well we're certainly going to find out in the next
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year or two what their direction is when they get to the midterms I suppose oh one more thing though on it is yeah and
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a lot of it depends on really what we see and if if Doge starts to really get popular support this whole I think you
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guys talked about this last week that the more that FDR style Trump and people get popular support it's going to become
00:22:47
a more and more isolating lonely place in two years to still be like you know California Gavin everyone saying don't
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worry we're going to protect you against these people if if they're doing things
00:23:00
that are popular to still saying you're protecting against them I think won't fly well that's a a great jump off point
00:23:06
because Gavin does seem and Karen bass seem like their careers are ending and they're in the last stages of trying to
00:23:13
maybe get a little bit more pragmatic based is the word people might use for that just being super candid but let's
00:23:20
get let's get into a little bit of an update here about the absolute tragedy occurring in Los Angeles the death toll
00:23:26
is now at 25 uh ,000 structures have been destroyed it's mostly people's homes it's 40,000 Acres that's 60 square
00:23:34
miles I think San Francisco is 7 by S miles right so this is a lot of uh space it's bigger than all of San Francisco
00:23:44
the Palisades and eaten fires are still burning and as of Wednesday 80,000 people were under evacuation
00:23:52
orders couple of our friends lost their homes and uh but they survived but the story of losing everything are just
00:24:00
tragic every memory all your personal documents photos art whatever that you've collected over a lifetime I just had two
00:24:09
conversations with people and they were just in shock the estimates right now of
00:24:15
damage are between 135 billion and $150 billion this is some of the most expensive real estate on the planet it's
00:24:24
10 times more costly than any other wildfire in history according to reports uh you might remember the campfire near
00:24:32
Paradise California that's about what 3 hours North of San Francisco Northeast that one was 12.5 billion just to level
00:24:41
set it uh and now people are talking about and we'll talk about here today what the
00:24:47
recovery and rebuild effort might look like California leadership disad across the
00:24:54
board Gavin I just disad Gavin new have you had traffic to dad.com with all of this yeah right now
00:25:04
dad.com is going to be red director to Gavin or Karen bass I don't know which one is more disgraceful I mean it's it's
00:25:12
an incredible troll that you just redirected every week to whoever you're mad is that
00:25:17
yeah who would be more disgraceful in this situation Gavin or Karen bass I think it's got to be k for just being
00:25:23
out of the country I think I think it would be quite funny if every week you actually gave an award redirected the
00:25:29
website to the I give it to this week and before that it was Jake Paul for that Tyson fight and the
00:25:36
disad but it's the stakes have gone up Gavin is now doing executive orders one of them is to make it illegal to lobal
00:25:47
offers to impacted homeowners for the next three months I don't know what the point of that is and the other one is to
00:25:55
eliminate the coastal acts review of permits for the the houses that are along PCH I
00:26:05
suppose and he wants to extend key price gouging protections quote to help make rebuilding more
00:26:14
affordable gouging is defined as raising the rent or price of other goods and services more than 10% from the last
00:26:21
marketed price but it could be as little as 5% it's just not clear and then LA mayor
00:26:28
bass created a snitch hotline to report on any kind of price gouging and rents which we've started to see people are
00:26:36
now naming and shaming Zillow and red fin listings where they you can see the previous history of what they were
00:26:44
asking for for a home or for rent and obviously the free market is making rental homes double in price
00:26:52
freeberg we talked a bunch about this and I know Pinkus you've got we had I don't know if you're comfortable talking
00:26:57
about it but we had a whole conversation about your getting dragged by the coastal
00:27:02
Commission in Northern California freeberg maybe kick us off here on what your thoughts are on rebuilding this
00:27:11
area how this will happen especially with what we brought up last week and I think when a bit viral is your sort of
00:27:20
talk about putting your thumb on the scale with insurance I mean this is I think one of the concerning things here
00:27:27
is the free market not being allowed to progress previously with insurance and then now with the rebuild well
00:27:36
California's got at this point price controls or a mechanism for controlling the change in price on
00:27:45
insurance on Housing Services and now they've got this non-solicitation rule all three I think are very
00:27:54
challenging to I think an appropriate Market recovery look the insurance issue is a longer one if you guys want we
00:28:02
could talk about that I've got a couple notes I can bring up on the history of how we got to this point but I think
00:28:06
it's going to be the one of the biggest burdens going forward and it could actually lead to a pretty significant
00:28:12
effect in long-term housing prices in California because of the way that the insurance Market is structured and
00:28:19
regulated in California but if you want we can talk about that or up or down what do you
00:28:25
think ultimately you know tldr like do you think prices are going to go way up here do you think this is going to take
00:28:32
five or 10 years to rebuild these homes I mean we've never seen this many structures go down at this price point
00:28:39
in a constrained area where just construction is so expensive and hard so I think the the governor did a good job
00:28:46
suspending the permitting requirements for the coastal act for affected homes and the squa review those are very
00:28:53
important I think suspensions but he also put in place this executive order for price gouging
00:28:58
and if you pull up the note Nick so he basically said California penal code section
00:29:04
396 which prohibits price gouging during a declared state of emergency will now extend indefinitely in this region and
00:29:12
in the language in that Penal Code it says that businesses cannot raise the price of essential goods and services by
00:29:20
more than 10% above their pre-emergency price for a specified period and in this
00:29:26
case his executive order is in definitely so in on an indefinite basis you cannot raise the price of goods and
00:29:33
services which generally applies to consumer goods like food and emergency supplies but it also applies to building
00:29:39
materials and services related to housing work so if you want to attract Builders if you want to attract
00:29:48
contractors if you want to attract electricians and plumbers to go to the LA area you have to allow the market to
00:29:55
do its job if I'm a plumber operating in Sacramento or in Phoenix and I'm like man I could make some money if I go to
00:30:02
La you will see an influx of service providers and an influx of goods to support the rebuilding effort in
00:30:08
Southern California that's the way the free market should work is there's an opportunity in the market folks show up
00:30:14
they say great I can make money I'm going to come here and do this work and as more folks show up they begin to
00:30:21
compete on price and eventually the cost kind of normalizes and you end up finding what is now the new fair market
00:30:27
value between the bid and the ask the people that are saying hey I'll do the work they're the ask and hey I need
00:30:33
people to do work that's the bid and you find a price but the benefit of that is
00:30:37
you increase the supply you increase the supply of goods you increase the supply
00:30:41
of service providers of contractors there is a home building dir right now in the United States so this is an
00:30:46
amazing opportunity because they can now move to LA build homes we can get a rapid reconstruction effort underway
00:30:53
except the governor just said we can't pay people 10% higher than what they were getting paid
00:30:58
right before this happened on an indefinite basis and then Karen bass created a hotline you can go to La 311
00:31:05
and report people if they're trying to charge too much and then the uh you know the Stacey will come and investigate you
00:31:10
and determine that you're charging too much I understand that there's a strong moral imperative and incentive to say we
00:31:16
got to stop price gouging we don't want people to get hurt but the second order effect is you're actually hurting the
00:31:21
market and you're hurting the rebuild effort because you're reducing the incentive for folks to come in and fill
00:31:26
the void in the market that is necessary for us to accelerate the development of
00:31:30
15,000 homes in a very short period of time the alternative now is people are going to be sitting around and I already
00:31:36
spoke to a couple friends I'm sure you guys have that are like I try calling Architects I try calling contractors
00:31:41
people that live in this area that have been affected I cannot get anyone to return my call there is not enough
00:31:46
service providers down there you're going to end up waiting six seven years to get your home rebuilt now what do you
00:31:51
do you own a a lot you don't have a home to live in and then there's this other thing where we can't take unol offers on
00:31:58
the home that was the other executive order so if you want to pull that one up the governor said it is illegal to make
00:32:04
an unsolicited offer on a piece of real estate in one of these affected zip codes I don't know what that happened in
00:32:12
Hawaii that makes the governor keep referencing the Hawaii story as if you know that there were people that were
00:32:18
taken advantage of and we need to protect the citizens of LA but I'm pretty sure that having an increase in
00:32:25
the number of offers coming in for Real Estate increases maret increases buy behavior
00:32:33
and that will ultimately drive and that will ultimately make it easier by having more liquidity for some
00:32:39
of these folks who owned burn down lots to be able to sell their lot take their insurance check move to another
00:32:45
neighborhood and go somewhere else because they're going to have to otherwise wait six or seven years to
00:32:48
build a home yeah I think you're a little bit off the deep end with some of this stuff
00:32:54
because I think you're not being totally fair in representing what this EO says and that's coming from me I mean I am
00:33:03
not a Nome fan okay and I think he is completely and totally incompetent but I'll just take the other
00:33:11
side of this which is that I read the EO and I actually think it's somewhat reasonable and I didn't connect the dots
00:33:22
with the EO and the real estate market and the reason is that if you read all of what he said the EO was hypers
00:33:28
specific to unsolicited offers to a very specific handful of zip codes and it was
00:33:34
time boxed for three months so he said making any unsolicited offer to an owner of real estate property located in the
00:33:44
areas encompassed by and he names a bunch of zip go I think there was like one two there's like 12 or 13 of them
00:33:51
okay so unsolicited okay yep to to acquire any interest in real property for an amount less than the fair market
00:33:59
value of the property on January 6th so before the fire started and before the home bur
00:34:08
down and he said that's prohibited for three months that's it for three months and the reason I think he said that is
00:34:15
that if you just scope out a little bit just from this moment in Los Angeles the
00:34:21
problem is that after natural disasters there is a spike in fraudulent activities and there are people that try
00:34:29
to take advantage of that situation to make money so for example after hurricanes we saw this in Florida people
00:34:35
poses contractors they come in and they offer inflated prices they offer poor quality of work and especially when you
00:34:43
sort of deregulate for that moment where there's less checks there's less folks involved because you're trying to speed
00:34:50
up the process you can have a bunch of pressure tactics that work against the best interests of the person trying to
00:34:57
build on the Wildfire side there was this crazy thing Nick I'll s you the link from KTLA that about these folks
00:35:05
called fire Chasers which are essentially like you know Wildfire scammers they're ambulance Chasers but
00:35:11
during fir okay so so so my point is yeah I don't disagree with his incompetence okay and I think he is
00:35:17
totally out of touch I think there's a broken cartel that runs the state that's going to drive this state into just
00:35:25
complete disrepair he was NE already you can't say a state that has $322 billion budget is already
00:35:35
bankrupt it's it's teetering on a path where we won't be able to return and we can debate that but my point is I just
00:35:43
think despite all of this he's grossly negligent Karen bass is grossly negligent the California cartel is
00:35:50
breaking this state but on this specific narrow thing I kind of will give him his
00:35:55
flowers I think it was like a decent smart good thing it's narrowly focused there's a specific window here that's
00:36:03
time boxed so that the worst behaviors of other people are roughly managed and mitigated until we can figure out a
00:36:11
better answer you're saying that unsolicited offers on real estate can drive fraud what you talked about if
00:36:18
there is a person that is this does not prevent Somebody by let's talk about Services separately because he has a
00:36:24
separate EO on services this does not prevent anybody whose house burned down from listing his lot you could sell it
00:36:30
for a dollar that's right so it's not it's I think it's it's not right and it's inaccurate to say that this is
00:36:37
perturbing and distorting the free market the idea that you cannot sell isn't what is in this CEO the idea is
00:36:43
some person shows up out of the blue and applies a pressure tactic to you when you're in a very stressful situation
00:36:51
trying to deal with your insurance brokers trying to figure out where your kids are going to go to school they're
00:36:56
just making an offer what's the pressure tactic it's why can't someone make an offer on your home you want people to B
00:37:01
up David David here's what's going to happen there are people that in the middle of all of this stress are trying
00:37:07
to figure out how much money they can get somebody shows up and underbids what the true price Discovery could be in a
00:37:15
few months from now you don't know whether you have to still pay back your mortgage there will be people it will be
00:37:21
nonzero that will make a mistake and I think that it's good to try to stop that it doesn't absorb him from his
00:37:28
incompetence but this I think was reasonably good what about the services piece jamat the fact that you can't
00:37:34
increase pricing on goods and services by more than 10% for an indefinite period don't you think that that creates
00:37:39
a disincentive for service providers to come into the state to come and address the obviously it does yeah this Grand
00:37:46
ideal of the free market will solve everything isn't necessarily always true it's great in theory it reads well in a
00:37:54
textbook but real life is messy right now we are in the messy part and we are in the most critical part where the
00:38:01
abuses will be the highest I suspect that in 6 months and 9 months and 12 months the free market will sort all of
00:38:08
these things out so if there's a governor who can Implement some checks and balances to protect these folks who
00:38:16
are probably totally dazed like for example we know some of our friends I've spoken to them over the last few days
00:38:22
I've spoken to their wives H I'll say I'll say it in in a horrible way one person said this to me and I'll
00:38:33
just just quote him the amount of people that have reached out to me if you had asked me two weeks ago why would so many
00:38:39
people reach out with condolences I would have thought that one of my children had died that's what he said to
00:38:44
me and it completely struck me with it's not on that same level but the amount of
00:38:50
emotional turmoil that these families are going through probably approaches that I don't think many of those people
00:38:56
are in a condition to make make good decisions right now so I almost think a cooling off period actually benefits
00:39:02
everybody it can allow the free market to work in a few months from now we're only talking 90 days no no the uh the
00:39:08
services thing is indefinite that's that's what I think is a little bit frustrating let me bring Mark in here
00:39:12
Mark you heard both sides of this debate if you had a lot in the Pacific Palisades that burned down and people
00:39:20
started making unsolicited offer listen you're sophisticated I've known you for 20 plus years uh you're very
00:39:26
sophisticated obviously but do you think that's a reasonable thing to do to put a
00:39:33
moratorium on people making these low bit offers and then we'll get to the construction piece second but you know
00:39:39
what you offers unsolicited offers yes unsolicited offers yeah what do what do you think of that I think what what
00:39:45
bothers me about it there's a presumption and and maybe chim's right in it you're getting me to think about
00:39:51
it a little more than I was but but I'm pretty much where freeberg is that we're
00:39:57
we're kind of treating these people like children cuz we're what we're saying is
00:40:02
that they're not capable of making good decisions so we need to protect them from themselves and we're saying so we
00:40:11
don't want you to know that somebody is willing to pay X dollar for your property because you might take it and
00:40:19
you might regret later that you took that is kind of what chamath is saying no in a in a very narrow window where
00:40:27
you may not have the best and clearest ability to make the best decision for you because you're dealing with so many
00:40:33
other crazy issues in your life and you could still say no you could say no but you're presuming there's there's one
00:40:41
side that bothers me that feels like what we've had from the Democratic party forever which is that this this big wise
00:40:49
Overlord that's going to protect us from our selves from our worst natures and then on the other hand you're bringing
00:40:57
up something chat that I I hadn't thought about that I'm just thinking more about now which is well maybe
00:41:03
people could be taken advantage of at the margin because they're in they feel like
00:41:10
they're in a dire position but but if they think they're in a dire position they might really be in a dire position
00:41:16
so they might really well for example let's just say that you haven't heard back from the banks that own your
00:41:22
mortgage about whether there's going to be a moratorium on mortgage payments and so now you're trying to juggle
00:41:29
paying for an extra rental and this house while you're trying to figure out where to put your kids and somebody
00:41:34
shows up and says hey I will buy this from you I think that there are a lot of people who would otherwise be able to
00:41:41
make a much more rational decision who may make a panic decision in that moment and I think that if you give people a
00:41:47
90-day cooling off period I think it at least shines a light on whether all of this governmental and other
00:41:55
infrastructure can actually do something for these people I do think that there is a moment at which you can't govern
00:42:01
these things and all I'm suggesting is a very narrow window of time where people's feelings of just like
00:42:08
desperation are at their highest I think that this is a decent thing to do you know there is some precedent for the
00:42:15
state doing stuff like this you know in Most states there is a cooling off period with marriages and divorces you
00:42:22
you have to wait 3 Days To to file either way to get married or to get divorced let's talk about the
00:42:28
construction process here freeberg because I think that's the most important one because we're going to
00:42:32
rebuild if you don't pay a premium to get somebody to leave another Market to come to this one which is what's going
00:42:40
to be required there are simply not enough construction people in any state that's right so now you're competing
00:42:45
with another state that's right this immediately triggered uh the debate and D I say courage that Travis had around
00:42:53
this issue with surge pricing for Uber lift and side car and a bunch of other folks who were kind of virtue signaling
00:43:00
were like we don't ever want to do search pricing therefore there were never cars on the road on Friday and
00:43:06
Saturday nights when people needed them or during you know inclement weather snowstorms
00:43:14
or on New Year's Eve and he said if you want to increase Supply We Believe Uber should have availability lift took a
00:43:22
different decision we're GNA have no search pricing and they just simply weren't available so maybe
00:43:27
what do you think about that piece Pinkus you think that the free market and people
00:43:34
should be able to say you know what I'll pay you time and a half to come here I'll pay you double time to work
00:43:38
Saturday and Sundays I'll get a couple of RVs put them in the back if you want to have some folks live on the
00:43:44
construction site and if you hit these dates I'll pay you a bonus for hitting it doesn't seem like any of that would
00:43:50
be wrong to me for somebody who had the ability to pay an incentive for somebody
00:43:56
to move from another state would be out of line here what are your thoughts on that I agree I mean I'm I'm pretty much
00:44:05
just a free market believer and so I think other than guardrails like chamat saying and maybe I like the idea of
00:44:14
cooling off periods it kind of makes sense but outside of that when it comes to service providers yeah you have the
00:44:20
opposite problem right now which is like you're saying you need to incentivize a
00:44:25
huge construction for to come to LA and the cost for them to get there to find housing themselves is
00:44:36
going to be even higher or the amount of distance they're going to have to travel
00:44:40
every day so I think I think this could have real unintended consequences and just stop the just stop the wheels from
00:44:50
turning on rebuilding all these homes which just make it way more complex so I agree J final thoughts on the rebuild
00:45:00
and the free market in that regard yeah I think this is where the government ineptitude is at its
00:45:09
worst I think that we need to dismantle this regulatory state that makes doing the right thing impossible so
00:45:18
specifically the thing that Nome did was essentially create a Time expectation on when things will
00:45:29
get permitted and I think he said it was like six months the problem is like this
00:45:34
is what just goes to show you how insane the state has become even if you get a permit within 6 months and this is where
00:45:43
I do agree with freeberg like getting service people in and being able to build something to spec safely is going
00:45:49
to take three four five six years and it's going to be insane and the example of the complete incompetence of the
00:45:57
California state government is if you contrast and compare this with how the state was able to respond in the North
00:46:05
Bridge earthquake and the crazy thing which I thought was incredible was after the 1994 Northridge Earthquake they
00:46:12
rebuilt I 10 right which is like that is like a crazy artery in 66 days guys they rebuilt it
00:46:22
not they permitted it not that they were trying to get the California Coastal commission to app on it not a Sierra
00:46:28
Club lawsuit about the Upper Land grous they rebuilt it so you actually know what's possible in California if if
00:46:36
Tradesmen are allowed to go to work yeah they can build incredibly complicated things with safety with speed this is
00:46:44
where Nome I don't think understands how the real Market works because if you looked at that example the real question
00:46:51
you should be asking is well what has changed well Technology's gotten way better since then the people are more
00:46:58
skilled there are more people to be able to do more of these jobs and so why does
00:47:02
it only take six months to just get the permit when in 120 days you could just rebuild an entire Highway similarly why
00:47:08
aren't we saying that we expect these homes built in the next three years get these kids back in their homes and back
00:47:13
in school you know what they did on that they offered a $200,000 per day early build bonus on
00:47:20
that program back then so they basically the the state declared we need this freeway reopened and here's the date it
00:47:28
was like 144 days and they're like you'll get a $200,000 bonus for every day under 144 that you deliver it soever
00:47:35
w show me an incentive I'll show you an outcome exactly the really interesting thing here is there are regulations that
00:47:42
this is a unique opportunity to put in place Nick if you can pull it up there was a home that
00:47:48
wasn't burned in the Pacific Palisades and the architect talked about some of the design decisions
00:47:55
there you know have having Stone scaping around your home gravel Etc and using these new materials and not having
00:48:03
overhangs uh which and then having vents into your uh addict which is what a lot
00:48:08
of homes have and the Embers get into the addict there's an overhang and they're not using and they're they're
00:48:14
all wood built you know none of this is concrete none of it's brick California is all wood and so they probably should
00:48:21
add some regulations about building things that are fireproof because if you had a 100 homes that were all fireproof
00:48:28
and built to withstand this that would act as a natural break and if you didn't have as much vegetation so there's
00:48:34
probably a series of things that should be added here in terms of regulations while you're getting rid of some of the
00:48:40
ones that are slowing you down right um but let's pivot over to oh and then finally like allowing people to park
00:48:47
their mobile homes in these places to have housing for construction to your point mark would be super critical and
00:48:52
they block that kind of stuff so when you need temporary housing in California you can't do it
00:48:57
by the way I want to I want to hear what freeberg has to say about insurance but
00:49:01
let me connect the dots between what you said and what he's about to say there are three images I just want to show you
00:49:06
guys and to Bubble this up for everybody that isn't necessarily living in California and is consumed with what all
00:49:13
of this means there's a bigger Trend across the country that I think is just worth putting out there so Nick do you
00:49:20
want to just show the first chart from FEMA so this is basically a graph per locality all over the United States
00:49:29
where FEMA tries to assess the disaster risk for living in a given area and what
00:49:36
you see here is that there's some risk in living on the Eastern Seaboard and there's a lot of risk in it's growing
00:49:43
for living on the western Seaboard and the two most complicated states that have to deal with this are clearly
00:49:50
Florida and California so that's one which is this is a problem that isn't just focused on
00:49:58
this one little area so then if you double click a little bit further there's a company called core logic they
00:50:04
publish a lot of real estate data here's a chart about the western United States
00:50:08
that just double clicks into Wildfire risk and I was shocked when I saw this this is first of all most of California
00:50:17
this is like Nevada this is Arizona this is parts of Texas this is Washington I didn't even know the fire risk went up
00:50:25
that high but this is essentially a lot of the western United States and then the last chart goes through and it
00:50:32
actually does core logic does an assessment of the value at risk so in California it's three4 of a trillion
00:50:41
dollars that are at about 1.26 million homes that are at moderate or great risk of fires in Colorado it's about 141
00:50:53
billion in Texas it's 88 billion in Oregon it's 45 billion in Arizona 36 billion the point is that everything you
00:51:03
said Jason now needs to get Scaled out meaning there needs to be a national level conversation this can't be a bunch
00:51:11
of city planners making code and making laws in a little municipality yeah because that problem what that shows you
00:51:19
is we have a multi-trillion doll risk to a lot of people in the Western United States specifically around this issue
00:51:29
that has to get dealt with by code all right really interesting in New York finally New York has put into place
00:51:37
congestion pricing I've been waiting for this my entire life here's a math this went into effect January 5th this
00:51:46
congestion pricing concept exists in London as everybody probably knows basically if you're below Central
00:51:53
Park which is six stage straight in Manhattan and you enter between 5:00 a.m. and 900 p.m. you're going to get
00:52:00
you know on your easy pass a charge of but $9 cheaper than a bacon egg and cheese in Manhattan these days if you're
00:52:06
going clubbing in Manhattan between 9:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. it's just like two bucks it's going to increase to $12 in
00:52:12
2028 and $15 in 2031 trucks pay more taxes pay less the results have been awesome weight times to get on the
00:52:22
island are down 50% across the board Lincoln Tunnel down 46% Holland Tunnel down 63% Williamsburg Bridge down 35%
00:52:31
it's just an awesome effort when I live there man as a resident the traffic was nuts you can have emergency services
00:52:39
move a lot faster you get rid of noise pollution you obviously get rid of air quality pollution for ice engines uh
00:52:47
it's great for cabs great for pedestrians and great for bike riders the only people really complaining are
00:52:55
selfish and entitled people who Drive their cars into Manhattan that's at least my position on it opponents are
00:53:01
saying it's a money grab for the transit authority because the money from this goes to make public transportation
00:53:08
better what do you think Mark you in favor of this yeah I think more generally I feel
00:53:15
like since the pandemic what's been on my mind a lot living still in San Francisco I wanted to start a social
00:53:22
network called still here uh it's like oh you still live here me too some way for us to like come out of our houses
00:53:31
and notice that you're here and I'm here but we never leave our homes I walk around this city at my own risk and I
00:53:39
like the cities I feel like cities have lost the point like they've lost the plot like why we've kind of we still
00:53:46
live in cities or value them but I feel like we have to go back to First principles and think like why did we
00:53:53
move to cities in the first place and what was the value supposed to be and is that still the deal we're getting or is
00:53:59
there it have to be a new deal because we used to live in a city because it was economic we were closer to our job and
00:54:06
then we lived in a city because there was a high density of things that we wanted cultural people restaurants and
00:54:15
the best cities really were the ones that are fun to walk around and then we got to a point where it's not safe or
00:54:22
clean to walk around you don't work in the city anymore and San Francisco started to feel like this gigantic like
00:54:28
retirement community it's just all these people who still live here because their
00:54:32
kids are in school maybe or they grew up here you know a lot of our friends left
00:54:38
went to Austin and other places and we started I I don't know about chamat but I think or Dave but I think our family
00:54:45
has a conversation probably twice a year of should we move why haven't we moved what's wrong with us and so there's this
00:54:52
questioning going on around cities and I think it's a good question and I think cities need to innovate aggressively to
00:55:01
give to be better they have to compete with the other options again they have to make it fun to be there fun to work
00:55:08
there I think it's great that Daniel lurry is mayor of San Francisco and he's putting smart people around him and
00:55:16
they're trying to rethink first some of attacking these core problems but also how do we make San Francisco fun again
00:55:24
so I love things like congestion pricing I think now is the time to try every new
00:55:30
innovation that you ever thought of and see what sticks and and figure out like how do you take this this tax not
00:55:40
literally I mean New York has a big tax but this tax on all of us whether it is that you can't walk across this city
00:55:48
that you don't feel safe or that that the the good side of it being fun to be in you know is that the the deal is off
00:55:59
and so I think you know and I also what I'm hoping Daniel lurry does and other smart Mayors is that they Benchmark and
00:56:07
they say who's doing it really well around the world whether it's dealing with homelessness or things like
00:56:13
congestion pricing who's who's innovating and doing it well and why aren't we doing it here
00:56:19
I mean I think you got to run these you got to reinvent these cities and you know sorry to sound cliche but I think
00:56:25
you got to kind of take a startup mentality and say you're not going to live on your incumbency anymore you've
00:56:31
got to reinvent this and we can't make companies come back to work you know come back to the office I mean the
00:56:38
companies can make their employees but it'd be really nice if the employees wanted to be there um you know and you
00:56:45
can't make people live in California so I'm in favor yeah chamath any thoughts on Mark's point about making cities fun
00:56:54
again and joyful again sounds like a pretty pretty good platform I mean I think he's right um
00:56:59
San Francisco sucks it's trash they never go there yeah it's terrible and the reason that you don't like to go
00:57:07
there is it's dirty it's disgusting there's crime there's Grime everything just sucks there yeah
00:57:16
freeberg your thoughts uh on the Gotham City that did he visit you in the Dave did chat ever come to the
00:57:25
Presidio I have come to your office I've come to Dave's office I've come to I've
00:57:29
gone to Peter's office there but what I do is I I don't even go through the city
00:57:34
I go all the way around I drive all through the East Bay up through Berkeley and I come I'm just kidding no no no I
00:57:41
just think that the city is very poorly managed and just the quality of many cities are poorly managed and I think
00:57:48
that there's a common through line in these poorly managed cities all the things that you say there's no will to
00:57:55
do there's no will to keep crime at Bay there's no will to make you know usable spaces for people there's no will to
00:58:03
invest in the Arts so what do you expect right there's more money collected by these cities but there's just just more
00:58:09
total grift corruption and waste I really like that you got to this will point because whether we come back to
00:58:15
the coastal commission or not or talk about California or San Francisco I don't think it's really about the red
00:58:23
tape I think it's about the willpower of of the people who are running the tape and reading the tape you're 100% right
00:58:30
did you see this thing I have to read this to you because this is really stunning I sorry Mark keep going but I
00:58:37
you're still th% right you know because sure okay maybe maybe in one case Gavin can override the coastal commission but
00:58:46
it doesn't matter if you cut their red tape by 90% as long as there's any tape that they can use the people running
00:58:55
both the St there and the people on the board have stated on their website that their policy is managed retreat they
00:59:02
drew a new map of the California coastline if that's their intention they're going to look for anything they
00:59:09
can to to stop and obstruct you so it's it's really not like their hands are tied because there's so much permitting
00:59:17
you're you're right they' made a decision and the decision in California and San Francisco specifically was that
00:59:21
we're going to cater to fentol dealers and junkies and that those people were going to get a stipend a hotel room and
00:59:29
be allowed to take a super drug on the streets thousands of people with no recourse listen I'm pro drug okay here's
00:59:39
I sent you guys a I sentation but not for fentol and meth these things are super drugs yeah let's make it less
00:59:45
about San Francisco let's talk about middle Ohio and let's talk about Ender Palmer lucky did this really awesome
00:59:54
shout up really awesome interview Nick I just sent you the link to it he's building a new Ohio plant but the
01:00:02
question and answer from the interviewer is exactly what pink has talked about which is will the interview
01:00:09
says was this the only state that could guarantee that timeline that you needed and here's Palmer's answer was this the
01:00:18
only state that could guarantee that timeline I think that they were the state that gave us the best shot of
01:00:23
hitting that timeline look we've really Eng well with jobs Ohio with a lot of the politicians here uh not just at the
01:00:29
state level but the local level you know like you said we're hiring 4,000 people
01:00:32
here in direct jobs a lot more jobs than that in a direct or sorry an indirect capacity it's the largest single job
01:00:39
creation event in Ohio history it was a state that told us we have the workforce
01:00:44
we have a million people who are capable of working in this facility within a 45-minute drive we're willing to work
01:00:49
with you on higher education to help train people so they can come in and they can work with you uh our customer
01:00:55
in the the United Air for United States Air Force obviously it's a huge presence
01:00:59
here in the form of right Patterson Air Force Base so really all the stars align
01:01:03
to make Ohio a great place for us to do it and to do it fast and speaking candidly as someone who is from
01:01:08
California there's some states that are really good at uh pushing you out and slowing you down and there's others that
01:01:14
are great at pulling you in and speeding you up and that's what Ohio was fantastic yeah states are competing for
01:01:22
elite companies and there's a willpower that's that there's an intention and you know that if they want
01:01:31
to make it happen they'll make it happen just like Gavin just did right you Gavin
01:01:35
could have theoretically I don't know signed an executive order to override the coastal Commission on lot even his
01:01:42
diesel plant like I don't know why he didn't just force that through but if we had diesel maybe there'd be more water
01:01:49
to fight the fire now so I think the important thing is to note that cities have a right to be what they want to
01:01:57
be you guys might find this surprising but I'm not necessarily of the belief that every city should necessarily cater
01:02:05
to progress and acceleration and enterpris and industrialization look when you go to
01:02:12
Pino every summer chth you would probably you know stop going and would be disappointed if you found out that
01:02:20
they were building a giant glass tower apartment complex and a giant office building right by the Portofino Port
01:02:27
like that's just not the character of what that City wants to be and I do remember when I first moved to San
01:02:33
Francisco 25 years ago it was it felt like a smaller European like City it wasn't overrun with technology companies
01:02:41
at the time and it was a the charm and the quaint nature and the smaller buildings of San Francisco that made it
01:02:47
a beautiful fantastic town I think that part of the challenge of San Francisco has been this diametrically kind of
01:02:54
opposed Viewpoint of progress from the technology sector and a desire to keep San Francisco a small City by the bay
01:03:02
and that that frustration has manifested with a lot of kind of ugliness over the
01:03:06
the last couple decades in addition to obviously all the silly stupid policies that just make no sense whatsoever
01:03:12
they're rooted in people thinking that this is a good solution in the short term but it creates extraordinary damage
01:03:16
and harm in the long term separate but I do think that cities have a right to be
01:03:20
what they want to be and I think that Dave I think that's just I just want to interject as a fellow San Franciscan for
01:03:26
a long time um just as long is that that's the normal tension that's been here all along and that kind of makes
01:03:33
the city culture great and there's you want to have this creative uh Melting Pot here but there's
01:03:41
this other side that I think has come into play in the last 15 20 years or I don't 10 15 years which is this
01:03:50
progressivism side which we saw Chessa you know with and I think it's it's different virus that's the ugly
01:03:58
silliness I meant I was saying but like let's put that aside let's put San Francisco aside I do think that a city
01:04:04
can and should be what it wants to be does it want to attract and build in Industry does it want to attract and
01:04:09
build enterprising companies or does it want to be a small quain town does it want to stay you know with no h that's a
01:04:18
false trade-off the problem is that people in government at every level sells the former doesn't doesn't
01:04:26
actually even give them that nor the ladder what they give them is a dysfunctional hellscape instead well
01:04:32
Cino doesn't do that right because it doesn't make those promises it's not asking to elect people that are trying
01:04:37
to do it not every City's making that though why are we lying to everybody and why are people falling for these lies
01:04:44
over and over and over again there's there's a moral Clarity in telling the truth bino doesn't try to do that but I
01:04:49
don't think the point is you're saying that the cities that that promise that and don't deliver that your San
01:04:53
Francisco promises it right London promises it New York promises it these things are chaotic messes mhm and it's
01:05:01
not the trade-off of oh well Parris has found a way to stay quaint that was never on the ballot some person comes up
01:05:07
and says I'm going to spend x billion dollars a year then another person shows up is is actually I'm going to spend it
01:05:12
a totally different way they both claim to have measurements of how it's going to be great and my point is none of them
01:05:20
are rooted in the real world nobody knows how to actually run a business all the money gets wasted and nothing
01:05:25
happens it neither stays quaint nor does it Advance if you were uh living in Los
01:05:31
Angeles you had the opportunity to have Rick Caruso who built so many amazing experiences and uh shops for the
01:05:41
citizens there and you picked Karen bass I looked on her Wikipedia page looking for any kind of operational position she
01:05:49
ever felt it's you want to read her resume it's tragic I mean just it's tragic she I would like I said last week
01:05:56
not send her to get my lunch because you know that order would be totally screwed
01:06:00
up she is so dis so unqualified and you had this perfect person Rick Caruso who literally you can't script this he built
01:06:09
the Pacific Palisades Village when the days before there was going to be a fire do you know what he
01:06:17
did he hired water trucks to park on those streets you can find the picture Nick pull it up and he hired
01:06:25
firefighters and people to protect the village that he built Karen bass was in Ghana partying
01:06:35
taking meetings I don't know what the connection between Los Angeles and their citizens and what they need to get done
01:06:41
and Ghana after she promised she would not do this Global you know uh Globe trotting which she apparently has a
01:06:47
track record of doing she left and stayed there knowing this was all coming Rick ruso who you
01:06:55
didn't vote for mayor he did the right thing vote these people out recall Karen bass you can do
01:07:03
it we recall Chessa Boudin you remember on this show David Sachs is a a republican entrepreneur venture
01:07:11
capitalist good friend of mine I'll introduce you guys if you haven't met him he started a recall chesa Boudin
01:07:17
movement I hired a journalist to cover the victims of crime in San Francisco Chessa Boudin was out in 18 months you
01:07:24
can recall these people they're unqualified take action start a recall they'll tell you oh it's not a good
01:07:31
thing for continuity whatever these people are not qualified they are not thinking in your best interest you have
01:07:37
no choice citizens of Los Angeles but to get these people out immediately every day they stay in office they are going
01:07:45
to cause more damage to your family your property and your city we call them now
01:07:52
didn't James Woods post a petition on change.org that I saw on Twitter it was already I signed it though I don't live
01:07:59
there and I think it was already over like 90,000 you know names I mean you you you have power the people of
01:08:06
California don't understand how much power they have when Gavin new I just told people on Twitter jamou every time
01:08:11
Gavin tweets or Karen best Tweets just reply with the word resign hundreds of people are doing it now shame these
01:08:17
people into resigning it's a very mature way for you to affect you you know what
01:08:21
it worked in Brooklyn shame worked I don't know why people think they have no power you can literally just go in there
01:08:27
and do things and one of the things you can do is recall them okay do we have anything else except your pical left on
01:08:33
the docket all right Tik tok's future is in question right now the ban is about to happen unless the pairing company
01:08:40
bite dance divest by January 19th which is this Sunday Tik Tok will be banned in
01:08:46
America Google and apple are going to be forced to remove Tik Tok from their app
01:08:50
stores and Oracle Tik tok's cloud provider has to stop providing hosting services and cut ties assuming bite
01:08:56
dance doesn't come up with a last minute deal tick Talk's only hope is the Supreme Court blocking the law what do
01:09:04
you think Mark do you think it's Chinese spyware do you think they should be forced to divest what do you think their
01:09:10
repercussions will be here's what's so hard for me about this on the one hand part of it seems so obvious from a both
01:09:18
not just National Security point of view but also just fairness like it's insane
01:09:25
if you think about it that there's a Chinese company that's arguing in court for protections under our Constitution
01:09:34
and freedom of speech when none of our companies have those kinds of Rights in China much less the right to even
01:09:42
operate there if they're not majority controlled or in line like you guys talked about with censorship or whatever
01:09:49
else so on the one hand it seems like a no-brainer to me that on this case but what you're starting to see come up in
01:09:57
the last couple days I'm even hearing it from one of my daughters who's a major Tik tocker is the law of unintended
01:10:05
consequences here is that we could see this band especially if they don't get to a deal with somebody and then the 170
01:10:14
million Americans many younger Americans who rely on this all a sudden feel like
01:10:20
this is censoring them and it's taking away their freedom of expression question and it could backfire in a lot
01:10:28
of ways and we're already seeing memes where they're going on to these other apps like there's this chines book red
01:10:35
book which is even worse right I think that one is owned by the Chinese government and so we're driving them
01:10:41
there and so so I'm the best outcome I think would be forced to divest and sell to another American company but if that
01:10:51
doesn't happen I I'm kind of nervous about a a real backlash I'm delighted jamath that our kids are gonna go out
01:10:59
and play and have friendships and stop scrolling on T talk what you describe sound sounds awesome I literally get on
01:11:08
their iPads and phones when I sometimes allow them to have phones and just delete the app and then they go get it
01:11:14
back of course of course K are right around it what do you think Cham what do you think's GNA happen here I mentioned
01:11:19
this to president Trump and I and I really think this is true the reason why there
01:11:25
was so much bipartisan support for the bill as it worked through Congress is because I think that they were briefed
01:11:31
on just how severe the security violations of this app are because I don't think we've seen anything in
01:11:38
modern history that is that that is this controversial yet be so almost unanimous
01:11:45
yeah so I think that that's an important data point there is something happening
01:11:49
in the app that they've been briefed on that makes them take this posture and when I listened to the Supreme Court
01:11:58
arguments I didn't hear a very compelling reason why this ban should be overturned so I do agree with Mark that
01:12:06
we have to find a suitable home and I think that we'll probably find one and I think that it probably
01:12:13
happens under the Trump presidency and whoever gets their hands on it gets their hands on an incredible
01:12:20
asset that they will be able to buy extremely cheaply because there is no way that is a fair market value here
01:12:27
deal for that asset because whoever is the buyer is in the total cat bird seat and in order to get a deal done with the
01:12:32
federal government I think you're just going to get a basically like a buy at now price that's very cheap the other
01:12:38
thing that I'll say though on a totally separate tangent so when I started hunting around Tik tok's realtime
01:12:44
recommendation algorithm was open source the learning method yep Nick do you want
01:12:49
to just throw it up here it's called monolith this is an incredible paper the cleverness of what these guys have built
01:12:55
cannot be underestimated and what's incredible is what they describe in this paper which I
01:13:01
think frankly a lot of social apps would benefit from understanding is exactly how they've
01:13:07
built it to essentially not take this more monolithic training approach for recommendations but how do you do it in
01:13:13
real time how do you make it collisionless it's incredible this paper is a tour to force
01:13:21
and it just makes me realize that despite the political maneuvering of this hot potato
01:13:29
there are some folks that have been working in that app or in you know the parent company that are truly
01:13:35
technically talented and it's a it's a bit of a shame that they're going to get sort of throw the baby out with the bath
01:13:40
water so to speak so people should know that there's some technological innovations inside of bike dance and Tik
01:13:47
Tok that are just truly amazing feats of computer science this is an example it doesn't though change the fact that I
01:13:54
think that enough of Congress and the rest of the security apparatus know that this is a mechanism to spy I think you
01:14:00
both nailed it isn't China saying though that they're going to if this does get divested they're going to keep either
01:14:07
bite dance or Chinese government saying we're not going to give over the algorithm or are you saying it's open
01:14:12
source it doesn't matter well this was an example of just sort of like describing the methodology it's not
01:14:17
functionally open source yet but I think that open sourcing it doesn't solve the
01:14:21
problem and the reason is so let's just say that you're Pegasus was able to reverse engineer or build penetration
01:14:28
attacks into WhatsApp that were imperceptible to everybody until it happened to Jeff Bezos to other people
01:14:35
right where you get these state sponsored attacks on your phone and all of a sudden you're dealing
01:14:41
with this attack Vector that then you call the FBI and they take your phone and they help you deal with it's
01:14:48
happened to a bunch of people that's happened to me twice so the fact that these things can happen
01:14:57
and then the attack vectors get incrementally more and more sophisticated it used to be that there
01:15:02
was a PDF payload then there can just be an image payload now it's any payload right and you don't even have to click
01:15:09
to open it and all of a sudden they just roots your phone so these are extremely
01:15:14
sophisticated mechanisms that are enabled by a very few very talented people talented I'll put in
01:15:21
quotes but when those talented people work on the wrong side you have to act so open sourcing it won't solve this
01:15:27
these these exploits are known to a few and I think that if it's known to the NSA this is probably what was disclosed
01:15:35
to folks under confidentiality that caused them to get to this conclusion I think people just need to wake up and
01:15:40
realize the Chinese government does not have Americans best interest at hard I mean the there there is no concept of
01:15:47
reciprocity as you mentioned Mark that's the number one reason to do this number
01:15:52
two what you pointed out your mouth with security and if you think about the two
01:15:55
biggest imports from China right now it's Fentanyl and Tik Tock here's what I will say want to make us addicted they
01:16:02
want to impact our society they want to divide us this is an a massive scops that's going on it is a scops and it is
01:16:11
a spyware and it's been proven they spied on journalists these are Bad actors it has to go I was super excited
01:16:17
when I saw that there was the potential that X would take over Tik Tok and the reason I say that is I do think that if
01:16:26
you can take the video content of Tik Tok and the graph of creators but have a different app and a
01:16:36
different substrate be the delivery mechanism where you know that it's much safer and it's governed by an American
01:16:42
that to me would be the compromise so I think the app should go away but if you can somehow give creators a path to sort
01:16:50
of like restart their content creating capabilities on X I think that that's actually a pretty good one you guys
01:16:56
notice in the app freeberg that the left hand tab um because you have following shop and for you they added a leftand
01:17:04
tab all the way over that stem and it's just science technology engineering and math content I've not noticed that yeah
01:17:13
take a look I don't know if it's just mine and they're microt targeting me because they know I'm such a fan of stem
01:17:17
but I think it's for everybody any thoughts uh Dave as we wrap on the Tik Tok seems like they're going to strike
01:17:25
deal Chuck Schumer today is calling for a delay in the ban I'm sure by the time this episode airs something will have
01:17:30
been worked out to create some space for them to get a deal done but I think they
01:17:34
want to get a deal done and keep Tick Tock active in the US seems like both the Dems and the Republicans are pushing
01:17:39
for it so this kind of also leads to what I think will be the grand deal with China which I
01:17:46
think will happen in the first six months of the Trump Administration I'm obviously speculating but it feels like
01:17:51
there's going to be some workout here China is like in a lot of economic distress I don't know if you guys have
01:17:58
followed much on the stories of the deflationary challenges that China is dealing with Chinese bonds are trading
01:18:04
at a below 2% yield now which is kind of unprecedented and there's this real concern that China is in a very
01:18:12
significant economic deflationary spiral so they're in a very weakened position economically at the moment the United
01:18:18
States seems to be in a position of strength and I would imagine just given the rhetoric
01:18:25
that this Administration may try to work out again some deal that's going to provide access to the Chinese market in
01:18:31
exchange for the US minimizing the Tariff effect on Chinese um importers to the US so there could be I think
01:18:38
something you know that eases the the tension with China and creates you know Mutual economic value in the first six
01:18:47
months of the administration we'll see I mean it's a great Point Trump is a great
01:18:51
negotiator it's probably his greatest strength and he's great at saber rattling and we're strong they're weak
01:18:56
right now a grand deal could be an awesome outcome I think this was my one of my this was my contrarian prediction
01:19:02
I think um oh no this was my stock this was my stock prediction yeah this was like my I picked the Chinese tech stocks
01:19:07
yeah same I I've been loading up on Alibaba a couple Chinese names with the same bet hey guys here's a chart for
01:19:17
you companies are not hiring as many mbas this is a recent spike in in unemployment among mbas from Top
01:19:27
Business Schools like Harvard MIT and Stanford I'm not sure I think Pinkus did you go to Harvard
01:19:34
FIA guilty guilty so and you've also stopped working so you're represented here on the chart yeah you still have a
01:19:42
job I think you still work what what are your thoughts on on this are NB out of Vogue are they opting out what's your
01:19:49
theory here well so yes I went there I I would say that that my all the learning that's helped
01:19:58
me in my career started later after I got out my first product management job was really when I
01:20:05
started learning things that are useful to me today I think being there I learned a lot about like how to sell to
01:20:12
Corporate America and some how do they think kind of things and then I've gone back to HBS for decades trying to
01:20:21
recruit from there and in the beginning they would tell me the kids would when I
01:20:26
had support.com and it was going to go public they said I'd have to be a vice president and own 3% of the company to
01:20:32
take a job with a startup like you and this was just before the company went public there was a little bit of a
01:20:38
Renaissance period where some HBS people were excited to join Zinga probably because they thought it was going public
01:20:44
but they were a little more risk on at that point and now everyone's open to jobs my take is that
01:20:52
there's this fundamental imbalance that people go and get an MBA because they're
01:20:59
drisking their career you go to HBS or Stamford and you're guaranteed this High salary and this kind of great job for
01:21:08
life so the reason to go there is to take the risk off that's in fundamental opposition to where we are in our
01:21:17
economy in my opinion today or where the most interesting sectors are those kinds
01:21:21
of jobs have dried up and the kinds of jobs that I think should be interesting to mbas are more like go find a
01:21:31
ycombinator company and join a founding team as the business person or whatever and these people are smart and qualified
01:21:39
but there's this mismatch that they are fundamentally risk averse and so they're
01:21:44
not so when it says they haven't found jobs part of it is I think they're going they're going to have to fall further or
01:21:52
this might happen so that a part of it they have maybe debt or they have to pay back this expensive degree but I think
01:22:00
that they've got to get to a point like I was when I started my first company preloader I happily had very little to
01:22:06
no opportunity cost because I had torched my career by that point torched my resume I was fired or asked to leave
01:22:14
every job and so there was kind of no turning back so uh can you imagine being Mark P's boss I mean that's almost as
01:22:22
hard as being trats yeah I always say I'm a great team player as long as I'm running the team
01:22:28
so right great quarterback yeah but yeah so I had no opportunity cost when I started my first company which looked
01:22:36
like it didn't have a chance in hell you know of ever making it so you probably thought so too then about my company but
01:22:43
so now the question is maybe what's going to happen is we're g to get a new equilibrium where these the
01:22:49
opportunities for these people start to come down the guaranteed opportunities and a good thing cons firms right they
01:22:55
all go to McKenzie Boston Consulting Group whatever even I just the class I taught on Monday at Stanford they said
01:23:02
everyone wants a job at meta or Google and that's the get-rich quick place and it's I don't even think that's
01:23:08
necessarily true anymore and they can't get those jobs because those companies are now trying to get rid of middle
01:23:14
management so those jobs have dried up you know part of what's in this data probably also is a lot of these people
01:23:22
aren't taking jobs they're not finding jobs that meet this High expectation for right pay and opportunity so I think
01:23:30
it's a I think it's a good thing it also probably is going to reduce the demand to go into these MBA programs because if
01:23:38
you're thinking well that's not going to be my riskof trade and I'm I'm not going
01:23:43
to be guaranteed 100% so why go in the first place and I would advise people today you know to depending on what
01:23:50
industry I'm biased but I'd say go get a product management job some where and make enough that you can afford to live
01:23:57
on it and that's going to be the beginning of Learning doing these chth what what are these things called when
01:24:03
these NB graduate they raise a bunch of money to go buy some real business SE fun yeah that's that's not happening
01:24:09
anymore they yeah that was like the thing none of them made money none of them made money turns out these NBAs
01:24:14
don't know what they're doing oh yeah so when they take over the business run by
01:24:17
a family and some matriarch or patriarch for 50 years to get it to 25 million there's that there's that one deal out
01:24:25
of Stanford GSB the guy founded assurion which is like you know 10 B it's billions that guy would have founded
01:24:33
that company outside of Stanford he could have gone to timbuk 2.com University disad State and he would have
01:24:39
been fine that speaks that speaks to more about the cleverness of that one individual not the 99,000 other sh deals
01:24:48
that been let me say something that builds on what Pinkus was saying which is I think that this is a interesting
01:24:54
window into the future of AI in the sense that I think what companies are internalizing slowly that the first
01:25:03
place that AI disintermediate is actually middle management you thought that it was the customer support person
01:25:11
maybe you thought it was the engineer maybe you thought it was the designer maybe you thought it was the product
01:25:15
manager I think those are less true I think it's the middle manager it's the functionary that basically is acting as
01:25:24
as essentially cartilage inside of this organization has less and less to do in a place where AI enabled systems are
01:25:34
making a lot of decisions on behalf of businesses and if you take a step back how did that evolve well it started
01:25:43
because of what I mentioned a couple weeks ago what the software industrial complex will really be known for after
01:25:50
it is dismantled and gone is that it created all of these really dysfunctional or charts in a company
01:26:01
meaning when you are a system of record that sells something let's make it up hey I'm the best general ledger
01:26:08
software okay and a CEO says great Implement that and then all of a sudden it's like well you're going to need a
01:26:15
CFO okay but then the CFO comes to you and says well you actually need ahead of fpna ahead of this ahead of that ahead
01:26:22
of the other thing then the CEO says okay then those people hire and what happens is the software sprawl is really
01:26:29
what created those jobs somebody else says here's a customer relationship management thing okay great so then you
01:26:36
hire a CMO and a cro those people build infrastructure so my premise about this is if you look inside of any or chart of
01:26:45
any company you can map those jobs to some clunky old piece of software that was sold to them maybe it was 10 years
01:26:53
ago maybe it was 20 years ago but that's why orgs are this bulky and now when you
01:26:59
have all of these new nextg businesses that are ripping all of that software out the middle management layers that
01:27:06
used to manage that software are no longer necessary that's why you're not hiring mbas and I think that this trend
01:27:11
is only going to grow so I don't think that this is a commentary on the people the people are probably quite smart but
01:27:19
I do think that this is a warning sign that people should not go and pursue these degrees because I think as P said
01:27:25
you're not taking the trade of least volatility you're actually taking on a lot more volatility than you probably
01:27:30
thought you shouldn't be taking on by going to a place like Harvard or Stanford freeberg any thoughts as we
01:27:36
wrap here about this NBA chart the collapse of the MBA program could be the beginning of the unwinding of the um
01:27:44
higher education Market why s more I think this is the easiest one to discard first in an age of AI and
01:27:56
Automation and self-learning and I think that I I mean I've been thinking a lot about I've I've have young kids right so
01:28:05
my kid my oldest kid is seven years old I had to think about that for a sec um so many kids now and um isn't it great
01:28:14
by the way I go through this all I don't know I have to go through I have to feel
01:28:17
like what's my kids birthday Jam has a busload of children when you have when you have I just had a fifth think five
01:28:24
and you're at four days no I have five I can't I have to really think about all the birthdays fourth on the way but yeah
01:28:30
I would say I I think a lot about whether or not it makes sense for my kids to go to undergrad and I think like
01:28:38
about going to classes as an undergrad I certainly there's the social experience
01:28:42
and I I learned a lot in you know kind of working at a lab when I was there and doing other stuff but those were like on
01:28:49
the job experiences I do think that the social experience and practical experience can be gotten
01:28:57
outside of the college infrastructure this Ed educational infrastructure oh I I cannot tell you guys how much time I I
01:29:05
just had a great idea I just had the best idea ever the Allin MBA let's start our own NBA I don't think I think that's
01:29:12
the whole point is people should get back to kind of an apprenticeship type model or a self-learning model
01:29:17
everyone's got their own personal tutor now that's what I think people aren't realizing is anything you want to learn
01:29:23
with have you guys heard about what Johnny I has done with his kids I'm pretty sure
01:29:29
they skip college and they just went to work directly with him and his design firm exactly and like I'm taking him out
01:29:37
to lunch because I want to interview him about it I think exactly by the way your daughters and my
01:29:43
daughters want to start a podcast together Pinkus do you know what they want to name it oh no I don't I don't
01:29:50
know if I should say it they I don't know I didn't hear the name I think Jam daughters in on this as well I think it
01:29:56
was another friend's child who came up with the name they wanted to call it the nepo
01:30:03
Pod Jamal's got a couple kid I'm here for it no I think freeberg nailed it on this one because I just had arouche
01:30:12
Selvin who's the pm at Google doing deep research on this week in startups yesterday and this product is nuts and
01:30:21
they designed it to basically be one of these like million doll or $5 million reports you pay for from these
01:30:27
consulting firms that MBA is right and it does a better job it's more accurate it's done in 5 to 10 minutes this thing
01:30:36
fires off have you used deep research yet Mark no I keep hearing you talking about
01:30:42
it and I'm such an idiot about this stuff it's on the desktop only you can't use the mobile and then Gemini how to
01:30:49
use it and it's only and you have to pay 20 bucks for it and then grock 2.0 is doing something similar when you put
01:30:55
your query in it decides like all the second level queries that would be asked then it checks its work so it's firing
01:31:03
off a spider that goes and crawls 150 pages in real time then it asks questions about the data then it says
01:31:09
what's missing from this so all the questions you would get from your manager if you were working at Boston
01:31:14
Consultant Group where they tell some young MBA hey you missed this you miss this can you double check this can you
01:31:20
find double click on this it goes and does those followup question questions so and now you can do a Cron job where
01:31:27
you can say take my research and every week do a update on it and fill in information and tell me the differences
01:31:35
so instead of just buying a Boston Consulting or Mackenzie or whatever report you build it and then have it
01:31:42
auto and the Deep research is coming out this it's going to automatically refresh
01:31:45
it in your Google Docs and then update you on what's been changed and so and grock is doing it as
01:31:51
well except grock has all the tweets so when you grock now did you see now at the top of the page it says and I think
01:31:57
it's only in the grock app uh the dedicated app they just launched last week it shows you all the tweets and it
01:32:03
shows you all the web pages that it indexed for that query so this is like putting somebody on a week-long research
01:32:11
project and like I said it takes between 5 and 10 minutes to do this and it costs
01:32:15
a massive amount of server capacity to do these real time you know two 300 queries are occurring behind your one
01:32:23
it's nuts I don't know if you guys have been using advanced voice on chat GPT much or do you guys any the voice and So
01:32:31
lately anytime I kind of have come across an interesting topic I end up finding that I just talk to chat GPT for
01:32:37
like an hour or two and I'll be like in my car like when I'm driving to work or going to a meeting or I go for like a
01:32:44
walk down to the coffee shop I'm like okay so tell me about like what happened during the Ice Age with respect to how
01:32:51
quickly sea levels receded and I start to gather and like it's it's basically like your own personal tutor I finally
01:32:58
have a best friend Mark and I think that basically you end up seeing a future where if people are
01:33:07
put into almost like the real world becomes the lab environment that is created in a very short window and small
01:33:14
amount of space in a college environment where you're like in some like applied scape that applied scape
01:33:22
basically becomes the real world and you've got your college in your ear you've basically got your tutors your
01:33:27
educational experience your capabilities that you're learning and you learn more
01:33:31
in real time and I think that that's what AI is going to take us to which is basically going to destroy much of the
01:33:36
value of higher education and I think that this MBA piece is probably just the first step of many that's going to
01:33:43
ultimately erode the value ofation did you guys see that Fleshlight that can actually be synced to a video you're
01:33:50
watching at CES that's pretty crazy no can we go to the UFOs instead of sex toys we get it show us the video show us
01:34:00
the video it's also did you get one of course he's about to show us from his hidden folder I saw it on X it was like
01:34:09
a it was like a summary of like the top 10 things from CES and it was a flashlight that that would gyate based
01:34:17
on the actual contortions in the videos which one's guest rooms tonight I'm a little nervous f interesting Pinkus you
01:34:24
you get to see two different things here when AI comes up as a topic freeberg finally has a best friend and chth
01:34:31
finally has a lover who will do exactly what he tells it to it's absolutely perfect so Mark lately we've been
01:34:38
talking we've been talking to all the guests about UFOs and UAP welcome to conspiracy you have a point of view on
01:34:45
UFO UAP phenomena I do and I guess everyone's everyone else say too so I won't be that weird an
01:34:54
outlier so first of all just say I don't believe in uaps UFOs and I don't not believe in them and I'm just curious
01:35:03
about it and I've I've had this theory that something is going to happen that we're going to break our current
01:35:10
understanding of physics theory and our our physics laws and so I've been looking for that moment and one of those
01:35:17
is around the uaps so I've been more and more Curious and digging more and more and I started working with a friend who
01:35:25
made the movie Icarus on the idea of like a Netflix docu series I thought it should be funny and have somebody like a
01:35:33
Larry David kind of character narrating it but he said maybe maybe he came back to me he he's making a documentary about
01:35:40
the fentol crisis and how it China documented how China has dumped it here and he said you've got to meet with me
01:35:48
and this guy I came while he was working on that he was interviewing a former DOD
01:35:53
contractor who had worked for them for decades and said you know I've got a lot on fentol but I have this whole other
01:36:00
thing to show you about these uaps and he he'll just tell you his claim his claim so they came and met with me and
01:36:09
we had to meet outside and put our phones in Fairway bags faay bags faay bags so so uh it was a good setup if
01:36:18
nothing else and he said he claimed that in doing running these War games for the
01:36:25
defense department it inadvertently was summoning these uaps these drones and he
01:36:32
had tons and tons of video of it and classified them I'm just telling you what he told me let me guess the Drone
01:36:38
all the Drone videos look up they were shot on an mm 1968 camera wait wait wait hold on hold on Jason Mark just explain
01:36:45
this so so the United States is is simulating war games yeah and what is it doing exactly that's causing these
01:36:54
drones to show up he did not tell me what were the the games what were the exact triggers that but he said
01:37:03
different things would trigger a different one and he classified them and he said some of them were aggressive
01:37:10
from an electronics and commun would take out electronics and Communications wow and he so he was interested and my
01:37:19
friend was interested in saying okay can you put up a couple people um a million
01:37:25
and a half dollars to recreate this and film this and I thought about it I even had him go meet with
01:37:33
Reed and and didn't move quickly and then he went dark on us and stopped responding and then some friends of mine
01:37:43
went to a gathering at and what they it was on multiple things related to this and they said that this guy was there
01:37:53
and that he summoned one of these they kind of said it looked like a large drone and my friends showed me some
01:38:01
pictures that they took which were really it was at night they were really gra come on stop come on stop I'm not
01:38:06
making this up I'm just telling you just one piece of advice with this documentary film stuff you know how to
01:38:11
make a hundred million dollar in documentary films right Pinkus yes start with a billion start with a billion
01:38:17
you're the mark in all of this you're just a mark this guy needs a million dollars to finish his house or something
01:38:23
a canyon fair and you're the way to do it I didn't the Mark I didn't find it okay good so all I'm saying is that I
01:38:32
think that there's a possibility that there is some kind of drone that's getting that that is showing up and and
01:38:41
I'm not saying it's even from you know from nonhuman making I believe it I believe it I am looking I'll be honest
01:38:48
because I am looking for a reason to believe in this I I'll be honest like I know my bias
01:38:54
I am very sympathetic when I hear these stories I listen way too long you know to the podcast on this stuff I watch are
01:39:02
you donating to Alex Jones no but are you a subscriber no but I I okay how about
01:39:09
this are we convinced that there has been absolutely zero unidentified object inside some
01:39:19
Vault Buri deep somewhere either the us or national state government somewhere are we guaranteed
01:39:27
that the odds of that are zero and I say no it's not let's do our fir uh what is
01:39:33
it fmy paradox freeberg fmy paradox why aren't the if there if there are aliens why
01:39:39
haven't we seen them quick around the I'm not I'm not saying done my point on this there is a UAP that is that has
01:39:46
been unidentified that is sitting inside some Vault somewhere in in a state government in the world so your position
01:39:53
is the aliens have come no stop saying you but you you you you make the whole thing seem ridiculous when you say
01:40:00
aliens I'm not saying that I'm saying okay visitors from another planet no stop with the visitors just let's just
01:40:06
put it this way a vehicle that doesn't have to have anything inside it a vehicle could be
01:40:12
autonomous and unmanned okay is are the odds exactly zero no but with billions of planets it would
01:40:23
you know logic would make you think that one has come already right that's with there billions of inhabitable planets
01:40:30
and species out there there must have somebody must be ahead of us but the other conclusion of ferm's paradox is we
01:40:37
statistically are the highest a society has ever gotten and we have yet to send our probes out to the rest of the
01:40:45
universe although we have send probes freeberg to Uranus all right everybody thanks for tuning in this is all
01:40:53
disad disad I need I need a I need um young Spielberg to make us a a jingle for disad
01:41:05
a.com Mark Pinkus you're amazing thank you for fitting right in with your besties uh and top bro on the baby
01:41:13
congrats congrat looking forward to seeing you this weekend all right and we will see oh and by the way just
01:41:18
programming note we're all going to be at at the inauguration various parties uh this weekend and we will be doing
01:41:26
some live episodes of the Allin podcast probably on Sunday Monday time frame and
01:41:31
we will see you on the live stream go to youtube.com subscribe to the Allin podcast put on the notifications the
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bell and then follow us on x.com the Allin podcast and then again subscribe and then just turn on notifications
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you'll get a notification when we go live on those two platforms we'll see you all next time byebye love you boys
01:41:51
byebye will let your winners ride Rainman we open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it love
01:42:05
queen [Music] of [Music] Besties my dog Tak driveways man oh man myit we should all just get a room and just
01:42:25
have one big huge orgy cuz they're all this useless it's like this like sexual tension that they just need to release
01:42:36
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