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all right everybody Welcome to the world's greatest podcast with me again today the world's
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number one podcast yes the world's number one podcast we we came in eth last week I think for those of you
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looking at the iTunes rankings which is absurd we've only got to beat number eight across all of Apple
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something like that yeah whatever their top episodes are on the weekends well that means we crushed on Spotify then
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probably yeah I would guess um I don't I don't know all the rankings but and and
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I guess on YouTube we got labeled with some Co thing I mean what is going on at YouTube a
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joke like literally you're labeling Co at this point I mean what a joke oh my Lord
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so I guess we have to at the top of the show talk about the uh fundraiser and I guess this like Veno Costa came in hot
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this week and attacked the besties let's play the clip what is your sense of the
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shifting winds in the valley around politics I think for a very long time the valley was seen as sort of a liberal
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Bastion uh but you know if you listen to Elon Musk or you listen to uh all-in podcast and and and that gang and others
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it seems to be shifting potentially towards former president Trump is that just a small pocket or do you think that
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that's a a real shift in terms of the way uh the valley is thinking politically the first thing I would say
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is all in podcast and some of the supporters there are not based in the valley I I would say there's a bunch of
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MAA extremists in every part of society and uh I hope we can prevent them from destroying democracy which is probably
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the most important issue we face all right so um why are you destroying democracy now that's a good bit J that's
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good let your winners ride Rainman David and instead we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it
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love Queen all right David fno was at the conference he got a little chippy here
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maybe he got a little bit out of line who's a little bit out of line what's your take a little bit a little bit a
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little bit well first of all venod should realize we're not magga extremist or extremist of any sort because he's at
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all in Summit last year he was great yeah we liked what he to say and I certainly don't dispute his expertise
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and and track record in Tech but in addition to that then he's saying that we're not based in Silicon
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Valley we're not from Silicon Valley we've all been here for decades and then he doubled down on that in a tweet so
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that's a bizarre statement maybe he thinks he gets to Define people in or out of Silicon Valley I don't really
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understand it but to be Frank this is one of a series of statements that he's made recently that I can only call
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insulting and childish first he had this tweet that he said that Trump supporters
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were lacking in empathy and caring then he had another tweet where he said that Trump supporters weren't teaching good
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values to their kids this caused Shawn McGuire who's a partner of seoa to quote tweet him saying that I think that I'd
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rather raise my kids to grow up to take after aanka Trump than Hunter Biden yeah
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and that got like something like 20,000 likes and it was one of those br ratios I've ever seen on a tweet so in any
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event I mean this is just one in a series of of pars and tweets and look I think you can take whatever position you
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want on a political candidate I can understand if he doesn't like Trump a lot of people don't he's raising money
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for Biden that's fine doesn't bother me at all he just had a fundraiser like two
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weeks ago or something right exactly that's not an issue at all but what I do take offense at is labeling millions and
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millions of ordinary Americans as somehow lacking in empathy lacking in caring not being good parents because
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you don't like their support for Trump yeah and I think that that that is a statement that frankly reeks of being
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cocooned in an elite bubble for way too long and let me just explain if you look
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at where Trump's support is strongest it's really in Middle America and sort of the heartland of America of what in
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between the elite States basically the part America that Coastal at least dismissively refer to as flyover country
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sure and it's a lot of the industrial Midwest and frankly that part of the country has had not had the same type of
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economic experience that we've had in silen valley of course they have not been beneficiaries of globalization or
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equities you know and they're they're in the working class and the working class
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in the factories got gutted yeah that's well yeah look if you're in one of the handful of export Industries in America
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and I'm talking about if you're in Hollywood or you're in big Finance or you're in software then globalization
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has been great for you because it has created huge Global markets for our products however if you're in an
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industry that has to compete with global exports then it's been very bad with you
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and blueco collar workers have been hurt Labor's been hurt people who work with their hands have been hurt they have not
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benefited in the same way from the system we've had in this country for the last 30 years so you can understand why
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they would not be so enchanted with Elite thinking of course and I think to to then label those people as lacking in
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caring or empathy or not being good parents because they haven't had they haven't had the same economic ride that
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you've had for the last 30 years and then you it's a blind spot you are the one who is fighting a legal battle to
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kick some of those people the public the surf be kick the public off of the public beach in front of your beach
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house and then you're saying they're the ones lacking in empathy dude look in the
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mirror yeah I mean listen the great irony of this is as you know the Democrats were supposed to be the the
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party of the working people and Biden was supposed to be the Pinnacle of that like fighting for unions Fighting For
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the Working person and and so they've just lost that whole thing and I'll say like I it feels like a lot of people are
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tilted because they defeated Trump and now he's back and so that tilts a lot of people like there was a lot of effort a
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lot of energy and a a feeling of success that Trump was ousted and the fact that
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the guy is now the front runner to be president again can be very tilting after feeling like you've already won
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the battle and guess what it's back I will also defend venod real quick I I'll say having known venod for a long time
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he's an investor with me he's a guy I've come to appreciate and and think highly
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of we had him at the summit he was great at the summit he was great the awesome if you listen to his thing he said the
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listeners of the Pod and then he said Maga extremist so they're not based in Silicon Valley I think he was
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referencing that the listeners of the Pod are not based in Silicon Valley and they are mag didn't yeah I couldn't hear
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I think what he meant to say was and some of the supporters there are not based in Silicon Valley meaning like the
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supporters chth your thoughts on vote's comments yeah I think vote's comments are a microcosm of something that's a
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little bit bigger than just him and I think is roughly emblematic of the mainstream media which is
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I think the four of us have found over the course of these last four years doing the podcast a rhythm where there's
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a whole diversity of views we've always respected each other we've learned from each other and each of us have taken
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turns expressing something that the others have ended up converging on that's not a holistic statement on every
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issue but it has it has happened and that's a an incredible example of how you should figure things out from first
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principles especially things that matter and I think this is the first time and you know look David said this a few
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years ago he said sax did that the course of Elections will be driven by podcasts and I didn't give that a full
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enough waiting at the moment when he said it but I think what I'm realizing is it's
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not necessarily just that podcast will frame elections but it's the counterfactual which is that it fills a
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vacuum and I think what you're seeing right now are the reactions of people that have thrived in what used to work
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which was a traditional media infrastructure that would shape how people were supposed to think but then
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all of a sudden if you can have a platform like this where people just talk from first principles
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respectfully and then the chips are going to be what it is and you know people will come to their own
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conclusions I think that that's what people are reacting to so I think what venot is reacting to is this sort of
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discomfort where you see four reasonable intelligent people all of a sudden talk
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open-mindedly about what's happening in the presidential election and what you leave out is the planted Orthodoxy of
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what you're supposed to think and that's disconcerting to him it's dis disconcerting and confusing maybe to
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sorin who I think is a wonderful reporter and a thinker it's disconcerting Jason to every single
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media Outlet over the last week that's breathlessly been trying to get me or saxs to have an opinion on this and the
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reason I've deleted all of these emails is they don't get a chance to frame what
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we think you can listen to the podcast and know what we think this is the future of
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how smart reasonable moderate people should make decisions it is an example talking to somebody you disagree
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with does not make your opinion bastardized it actually makes your opinion valuable there are these simple
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truths to living a productive life that if you want to embrace you need to find friends that you can trust even on
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issues when you disagree you can hear them out so that's what's happening right now and I think that that's why we
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all need to sort of stand together and lock in arms and just keep moving forward this is something really
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important here that's happening and I think that's why the media and these opinion makers are losing their minds
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freeberg your thoughts on this you're friends with venod as you mentioned and you've always
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said to me and in our personal discussions that the reason you do this PO is because you really want to set an
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example of how to have great conversations and learn from each other and and the tone of what we do here so
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your thoughts on this the unfortunate reality in a voting system an election cycle like we're in venod went and did a
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fundraiser it's public that he did a fundraiser for Biden a few weeks ago and he wants to win the election he wants to
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make his horse win there's a lot reasons why I'm sure venod has chosen that person to be his horse and so when you
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get on the playing field you got two teams and only one team wins so you know everyone pulls out all the stops to win
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one of the things that is done is unfortunate and it over time causes an erosion and a hardening into a kind of
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polarity between all people which is that you call the other side wrong or bad or extreme the term that he used
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which really I think personifies the problem is he said they're listeners are they're Maga
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extremists extremist being the word right mag means make America great again which I think everybody wants to make
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America great again right whatever the the the extremism phrase is used by both parties to describe the points of view
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of the other side and what I think is lacking is a reshi of the perspective to say their views are valid I acknowledge
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their views I hear them I know why they feel that way I'm understanding where that group of people are coming from
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and to have that acknowledgement unfortunately softens and weakens your position and ability to go out and win
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an election and so both sides Harden themselves and use terms like this to try and discredit the other side so it's
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unfortunate to see I think we all understand where someone who's trying to win a battle on the field is coming from
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when they're trying to do this but I do think that what is deeply lacking in the
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erosion that's Arisen is because we can't say I hear you I see the problems I I recognize you as people just like us
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you have kids you have families and you have a different point of view on the policies that will work and the
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individual that will realize those policies I also think it's important to make sure that we reiterate again at the
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sake of being pedantic the facts which is this is a nonpartisan show and it is a platform that has showcased and given
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time to Democrats and Republicans and independents yeah and they've all taken us up on it so that thought by venod is
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at incomplete and more appropriately just stupid and factually wrong that's a good
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point Larry summer spoke at the same conference that the not Larry Summers Dean Phillips Bobby Kennedy Chris
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Christie I mean this is a spectrum of people that we are bringing on again Cheryl s you can hear from them Jared
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Kushner you can hear from them in an unfiltered way and come to your own conclusion that's why we were number
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eight last week that's the exact reason reason why and I think that that's very scary because instead of power Brokers
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being able to filter an opinion you now have an opportunity to just hear it for yourself discuss it amongst your friends
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and come to your own conclusion so we have always been bipartisan here and we will continue to be bipartisan the
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second thing is and I just want to say this again I have asked the White House for President Biden to come on the show
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oh come on the show please yeah yeah we've offered the exact same thing we are just we are just waiting people
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really want me to be friends with you guys they want me to end my friendship with youat they want me to end my
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friendship with you saak like like and these are people who are are mutuals I just want to say and I want to just tell
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them all equally to go [ __ ] themselves here you can bleep out the f word like I
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I'm not picking my friends based on their political parties or their leanings or who they're supporting for
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president the way I look at this saxs is at this point we're all Americans we're
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in this together America survive survived Trump's presidency America's going to survive Biden's presidency the
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Democratic process it is very messy everybody gets to have a voice and let's just pause for a second here and open up
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the aperture let's be thankful that everybody gets to have a say let's keep it from getting personal half the humans
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on this planet Earth do not have a voice the one thing that's trending in the wrong direction globally is people
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living in a democracy it's the one thing not getting better we have a lot of work
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to do in this country we have to respect each other like we try to do here on this podcast and we have to talk about
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the important issues we all agree the budget's out of control we all agree the education system sucks we live in a
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multi-polar world we have to figure that out when we should go to war when we shouldn't when we need to stay out of
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things these are complicated issues and name calling and this presidency is not as important as tackling these issues
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Together As Americans I hope everybody can keep that in mind so let's debate this may the best candidate win and then
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let's move on and let's solve some problems here okay and it it's getting very personal yeah well said really well
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said I know I'm really hurt by this because I tell you personally it's very hurtful to me because I value our
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friendships and they're picking on the wrong guy cuz you're the most loyal guy and so it's kind of like it's going to
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be the least effective because well you still care what they think Jal that's the problem so they can get to you no
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you can ask me if I do that don't tell me what I think sax you can ask me okay I actually care about the two of you
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bicker like brothers it's no we do but I know I just have to retrain Sachs that he can't tell me what I think okay yeah
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no because you do that you put words in my mouth for all listeners they just want you go to know they've been
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bickering like this for 20 years so it's it happens even worse offline when we're
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not on the show unb nonstop you're ruining it JC you're just ruining it right now here's the thing I respect you
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know all of my friends and I I like having a diversity of opinions that makes life more interesting for me and
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then to tell me I can't be friends with this person that person the way I grew up my dad had a Bar Hell's Angels cops
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firefighters just everybody was allowed to come and hang out at the bar like we're here we're having a discourse
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everybody's welcome for a seat at the table lgbtq were they all of them the entire rainbow what people haven't
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figured out yet is that cancel culture is over virtue signaling is over absolutely Dei is over off Trend not on
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Trend and the people who are still Tweeting these blanket statements and they're trying to demonize the entire
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other side with unfactual unfounded pot shots are just making fools of themselves and you can see that in the
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you can see that in the reaction on X all right let's move on and we have some breaking news year oh no just to put
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things on a happier note what happened did Uber get BFF by Tesla just launched the Tesla Mescal oh breaking news story
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hold on it's a breaking news story Tesla has launched mecal in that beautiful lightning bottle I just ordered my
00:17:17
bottle of this like two seconds ago while we were doing the show uh oh and because this sold out in like two hours
00:17:22
before and now the B the bottles of the original Tesla tequila go for like $2,000 now on eBay
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so get yours get yours now if it's still Smokey mcow there you go wait a second is this going to compete with the all
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in bit uh well it'll be all sold out by the time we launch our ball we're both gonna be sold out we're both gonna be
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sold out like everybody can see that everybody can win it's not a zero sum game everybody can secure the bag all
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right let's get into the docket enough with the self referential we're all influencers now did you guys see my deck
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this month we're all influencers we're all influencers absolutely absolutely there's a lot of Federal Regulation
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going on around AI as we know a regulatory capture shout out to our guy Bill Gurley who did a great talk last
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year about this on Wednesday the New York Times reported that the doj and the FTC had struck a deal on how to go after
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AI incumbents here's the terms of the deal and again this is all Breaking the doj gets to investigate whether Nvidia
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violated Anti-Trust laws they didn't specify what they're going after here but it could include the Nvidia use of
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Cuda software to lock customers into using their gpus or maybe how Nvidia distributes their gpus to customers
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there's a lot of Regulation around that and the FTC takes the lead on looking into open ai's conduct and Microsoft's
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AI deals obviously there's been a ton of those including Aqua hires Etc and then
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just this morning the Wall Street Journal reported that the FTC had opened a probe into Microsoft's deal with
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inflection AI That's the one if you're remember where they bought the staff and then did some faka crazy Commerce deal
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where they gave them a bunch of money I guess to bail out the investors and that
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one is as conflicted up and down as you could possibly imagine they know Microsoft structured that deal in a way
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that could avoid regulatory scy you heard that here first actually we we talked about this concept of a shadow
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Aqua hire on this very program when we saw it because we'd never seen a deal like that it had includes that $650
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million licensing fee all right there's tons of other angles here but let's start with you chth what are your
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thoughts on this regulatory capture in nvidia's Ascension for those of you not watching it's almost become the largest
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market cap company in Tech actually today Nvidia passed Apple for a moment in time so this is pretty crazy what
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we've seen with Nvidia and here we go regulatory capture coming in hot jamaath your thoughts I have two thoughts
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they're sort of mixed emotions the first is I think the doj and the FDC are totally way out of their
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ski tips on this this is a totally nent industry we don't have any good examples
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of end user use cases either in the Enterprise or amongst consumers we only have 18 months of spend history it is
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true that we've spent probably 750 billion to a trillion dollars collectively now yep on things with the
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AI label but it is also true that that's probably generated less than 10 billion
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doar of Revenue so I don't see what they're exactly investigating in an ex ex immature
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Market where we haven't yet seen one cycle of boom and bust so that we know what we're actually dealing with so it's
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way too premature and it's just people afraid and tilting at windmills the second part the part that's mixed though
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is we are seeing a clever form of deal making that these huge hyperscalers are doing to work around the traditional
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constraints that you've had on businesses Jason you and I worked at AOL in a moment where AOL paid a very dear
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cost for essentially roundt tripping Revenue yep Microsoft had to go through a huge
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doj inquiry and a settlement decree and they were in The Penalty Box for most of
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Steve bomber's tenure as a CEO a l decade yeah and the handcuffs came off when Satya took over that
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business so I think what I'm trying to say is folks have become extremely sophisticated at replacing round
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tripping with these complicated Tac 2.0 whatever you want to call it credit oriented deals they'll Finance you to
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buy their own chips all of this stuff has to be scrutinized a little bit more so that part I support but all of a
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sudden launching an antitrust investigation makes no sense so I really think the inquiry should be coming from
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the SEC about is this real Revenue that's actually the key issue and and this goes to chath what we talked about
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like let's if we're going to police something tactics make sense not fut competition which has been Lena Khan's
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sort of approach to this and she's only going to be in the position for another couple months the the election goes the
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way it's going so this might all be mood freeberg I want to get your thoughts on
00:22:11
this we had that great talk 2851 miles from from Bill and Regulatory capture at the summit you can uh look it would be
00:22:18
in the show notes if you haven't seen it it's great talk Freer your thoughts on this I I don't know what
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regulatory capture in video are you talking about regulatory Capt of Nvidia just regulatory capture in the framing
00:22:31
of AI is it too early hey we're like in the we're not even in the first inning here and already we're going to start
00:22:38
investigating everybody and it just seems pretty one of the silly aspects is they just passed this law in California
00:22:46
new some warns against Perils of over regulating AI oh good Governor New warned on Wednesday against stifling the
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burgeoning AI sector I mean new is well informed by the tech community so sure I
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I don't think he and he's also an intelligent person so I don't think he'd kind of you know fall quickly in line on
00:23:05
this one but the way that the statutes were written is there's a definition on the size of a model which in and of
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itself is very quickly changing as we know we've seen recently significant reductions in model size that actually
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improve performance overall of the model for specific applications and it's very
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likely we end up seeing a lot of more smaller targeted models being used in spe specific applications instead of one
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massive general purpose model being used or networks of smaller models which is what really where I think the industry
00:23:36
is going and if that's where things go then this the statute doesn't even matter it it makes no sense anymore and
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that shows you I think how quickly things are changing they go and they get quote experts opinions in a couple of
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months those experts come back they're like here's the size of a model that you need to be regulating and then the
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legislators run and they write the the code they pass the statute and all of a sudden it doesn't even make sense
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anymore so yes I don't think we really know where this technolog is all falling out at this point and I think it's very
00:24:03
difficult to have the government kind of reach in too quickly to try and identify
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what they should and shouldn't be allowing to happen from a free market perspective your thoughts David Sachs
00:24:15
especially in light of the fact that it's looking like we're we're going to have some regime change in Washington
00:24:20
and the FTC is going to gonna going to turn over obviously if that happens well look I agree with you guys that this is
00:24:26
just too soon to be opening these inves ations it's true that open Ai and Nvidia
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have leads in their respective markets but that's all it is at this point it's way too early in the development of
00:24:38
these markets to say that these are clearly monopolis there's still a lot of competition going on if a few years from
00:24:45
now Nvidia still has whatever 85 90% market share and no one's even close to catching up then maybe you consider at a
00:24:53
monopolis same thing with open AI but it just seems very early to be rushing into
00:24:58
investigations of these companies I mean the AI Market is what 18 months old two
00:25:03
two years old maybe at most I'd say two is a good way to look at it you sure yeah so it's just very early to be doing
00:25:09
this look I think this is of a piece with remember that executive order or whatever that you remember when the
00:25:15
White House issued that 100 Page Plus executive order on AI regulation we covered it on the show and we also
00:25:22
thought that was too soon and we thought that if the internet had been regulated
00:25:28
in that way in you know circuit 1995 or 1997 it never would have blossomed the way that it did you know you want to
00:25:36
give these markets some time to play out before you bring the down the heavy hand
00:25:40
of regulation on them so it just seems to me like the administration is getting carried away here with this desire to
00:25:47
regulate this new space and I mean frankly it's of a piece with you I I would say an innovation hostile agenda
00:25:57
you also have the attacks on crypto you just had buying veto a bill that would have finally given crypto a regulatory
00:26:03
framework in the US it passed with 60 votes in the Senate including Democrats like Chuck Schumer and it still wasn't
00:26:12
good enough and oh and it was based on a framework I think that came from the SEC
00:26:15
yeah but Biden is basically in the Elizabeth Warren camp that he's going to give no quarter to crypto so you've got
00:26:22
hostility to AI you've got hostility to crypto you've got hostility to m&a no one can get m&a deal through right now
00:26:30
you put all these things together plus you've got hostility to options as compensation in terms of the 25%
00:26:37
unrealized gains tax you add up all these things and again I think this is an agenda that does not benefit Silicon
00:26:45
Valley at all well and if you want to understand why people are coming to your fundraiser tonight if you put all this
00:26:51
together it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you're a venture capitalist or an entrepreneur and you
00:26:56
want to see m&a and you want to see entrepreneurship and you want to see your companies Thrive you want to see
00:27:00
your employees get rich and have options Biden is basically handing the election
00:27:04
to Trump it's like he's doing everything he can to basically alienate Silicon Valley so and capitalism and you're
00:27:11
exactly right and Innovation I wouldn't even say it's Silicon Valley it's like if you're going to go and build things
00:27:17
that are at the bleeding edge yeah you know the government used to be the the most critical supporter of that right if
00:27:23
you think about space or defense these are areas the internet itself the government was the partner of Private
00:27:29
Industry to make sure that there was no regulation and that like really really looking Innovation could happen that's
00:27:36
should be their role and this speaks to this Dell versus acceleration movement that we see here in Silicon Valley and
00:27:44
this is what we see in Texas Florida UAE Riad DOA there are places in the world Singapore where people are accelerating
00:27:53
Innovation and this is what humans want not just entrepreneurs not just venture Capital all of us want to see an
00:27:59
acceleration of innovation everybody wants to see prosperity and if you put yourself up as the Dell candidate we're
00:28:07
not going to allow m&a we're going to screw with options we're going to do all this stuff people just not going to vote
00:28:11
for you and people want crypto legal so take the memo I mean this I mean the fact that the Democrats can't field a
00:28:17
candidate that aligns with the what Humanity wants is absolutely mindboggling this is why I think Biden's
00:28:25
getting hot swapped this month you heard it your first he's got no Gavin is going to be running
00:28:31
for president it's going to be Trump and Gavin they are hop swapping Biden after
00:28:35
this first debate Biden is going to get demolished by Trump of the debate it's going to be elder abuse he's getting
00:28:41
wiped out and hot swapped you heard it here first well there's a lot of lot of conspiracy theorists online who agree
00:28:47
with you a lot of TI hat speculation that he's gonna get Switcheroo hot swap but look I mean I think you make the
00:28:54
correct point which is you know I didn't really think about it this way but you're right Biden is the Del candidate
00:29:00
and nobody wants that also Trump has shown a learning curve where he recently has been saying positive things about
00:29:07
crypto Y and he's always I think been more Pro economic growth he was a real estate developer from the private sector
00:29:13
he actually understands the economy so there's no question that he would be more pro-innovation much more
00:29:19
Pro Innovation than Biden and to your point about this is one of the reasons why people are coming to the fundraiser
00:29:25
I had someone from the campaign said something very interesting to me she said that we've never seen this many
00:29:30
new donors yes at an event before so we're turning out the new donors for this reason yes and you know we're not
00:29:39
going to be intimidated by people calling us names you know it's like look in any normal election people in an
00:29:46
industry would vote for the candidate who they see as most aligned yes with what is good for them their families
00:29:55
their industry if you made a list let's just make the list here right now now make the list of things Trump is in
00:30:01
support of right and Republicans are in support of right now they're going to be
00:30:04
proa they're going to be Pro crypto they're going to be Pro less taxes they're going to be Pro Law and Order
00:30:10
you know what that's where I align those are the things I want so if you just list the issues for me despite how I
00:30:17
might feel about Trump and some of the things he's done he checks off all my boxes he checks off all my boxes and I
00:30:23
think that's what's happening here and you know people were scared to come out and say this person backs off all my
00:30:28
boxes the Democrats need to realize they're out of sync with America they're out of sync with powerful people in
00:30:33
America especially the donor base they're the Del Cel candidate party now and they just have to flip this thinking
00:30:40
they're going to get demolished it is going to be a landslide at this point people want jobs and prosperity from
00:30:47
your lips to God's ears do the hot swap I mean I don't really have a lot more to
00:30:53
say I I think a great point take the win I mean and and crypto is such an obvious
00:30:59
win and you know what Trump's anti- right now he's been wailing on EVS I guarantee you that's the next thing I
00:31:05
bet you next week he comes out next week within the next two weeks here's my prediction Trump says you know what eeve
00:31:11
is not so bad remember he's been saying EVS nobody wants these things we're subsidizing I bet you next week or maybe
00:31:17
in 30 days I'm making a prediction here you Bank the prediction in 30 days Trump
00:31:22
comes out magically in support of EVS well I think that his point is I he shouldn't be forced to by EVS I mean I
00:31:29
don't I don't think he's against them per se I think he's against people being forced look I think that what the new
00:31:36
Administration hopefully or what Trump should propose is effectively a modus vendi with big Tech where the point is
00:31:44
that if you stop censoring our people if you stop censoring conservatives if you
00:31:48
restore the civil liberties of the average American to say what they want online to basically Bank online to stop
00:31:56
essentially deplatforming and censoring people then we will let you innovate we'll let you do m&a we'll let you get
00:32:02
back to business that basically is the basis for a peace agreement between big Tech and the Republican party yeah and
00:32:10
by the way I'd say in the next 30 to 60 days you're going to see 10 incredibly high-profile people come
00:32:18
out and support of trump if Biden isn't swapped out and when I say high-profile I have the inside line on this extremely
00:32:23
high-profile people not just Doug Leone not just David Saxon cha it is is going to be about 10 high-profile people who
00:32:30
are much higher profile respectfully than jamath and Sachs and Doug Leone so just wait for it folks uh you cannot be
00:32:36
a deist in you know this world let's keep moving roaring kitty aka Keith Gil just disclosed a NF figure position in
00:32:44
GameStop yes we're back to where this podcast started we're talking about GameStop and SS as crazy as it is and a
00:32:52
ER trade is considering suspending his account this is going to take a little bit of background I apologize here I
00:32:57
don't to deplatforming him here we go again quick background you remember the first
00:33:05
basically viral moment for this podcast this AI moment I remember I was in Taho skiing was the GameStop Saga back in
00:33:11
2021 thousands of retail investors following this individual Keith gild were posting in this subreddit
00:33:20
called Wall Street bets if you're not familiar and they created a massive short squeeze and they sent the stock
00:33:25
flying Robin Hood halted the trading remember Vlad came on that went all went crazy uh we covered that all and then
00:33:31
Keith Gil went silent for the past three years on Twitter and Reddit he said nothing then on May 12th he posted this
00:33:37
meme on X which has been viewed 28 million times now if you don't know this meme this is the lean forward meme when
00:33:47
you got a game controller in your hand it is a way to Signal like Hey we're getting to the boss level it's going to
00:33:53
get exciting here's your GameStop chart folks you see that first Peak that's when we were reported on it back in 2021
00:33:59
and here we go again it just had the slow ride down for 3 years and [ __ ] popped up again so gamestock stock
00:34:07
tripled at the posting of that meem why is this important well uh he has a huge position he increased it from 200,000
00:34:16
shares basically to 5 million had 120,000 call options shth will'll comment on all this in a
00:34:21
moment if he exercised all these calls skill could own an additional 12 million shares here's G Gensler who was on CNBC
00:34:29
Wednesday trying to like calm the markets down and or try to get control of this craziness here's
00:34:36
the clip I say to you look I want to put up a a a I want to put up a a cryptogram
00:34:42
and it's of a chair leaning up which we know from video game playing means come on this is the ninth inning get ready
00:34:49
and we know that I'm a person who happens to like the stock of GameStop this is the single come on get ready is
00:34:56
this something hypo ically that is that the SEC should worry about so look again
00:35:01
it's not so hypothetical because you're describing things that are in the public
00:35:06
domain and and the public is is uh you know interested in so but generally speaking you have to make sure that you
00:35:15
don't mislead the public and that you don't in any way do things in the markets that may
00:35:22
be manipulative or misleading and so that the key thing in our Capital Market no the key thing is
00:35:30
if you can cure it with disclosure this is brandise you know if they disclose it
00:35:35
this is something that they are called action then you can't go after them disclosure is one really key part of our
00:35:42
Capital markets when you buy the stock of a company you expect that they give you full and fair disclosure that's by
00:35:49
the way not what you're getting right now in this crypto field so I just you know cautionary tail there that
00:35:57
disclosure but disclosure doesn't necessarily protect a bad actor if they're manipulating a market chth you've been
00:36:06
you've had a lot of comments on the markets and uh specifically this one uh over the years what are your thoughts is
00:36:12
posting this meme stock manipulation or disclosure no it's he's posting a meme okay thank you he put a picture on the
00:36:22
internet okay I mean the again this is like the problem that we have which is that he disclosed his position in a
00:36:32
different way now we don't know whether that disclosure is accurate because I think it was just a screenshot of like
00:36:37
some statement inside of a Reddit thread right and then that got posted many times elsewhere is this accurate I don't
00:36:45
know because he has no obligation as an individual to do any of this stuff because he's not running a hedge fund
00:36:53
and he's not running other people's money now if he was acting in concert with other people you could say hey hold
00:37:00
on a second if you're repping not just your money but other people's money and you did this then there's probably a
00:37:05
disclosure obligation there but at the end of the day this is a guy that acted and basically created
00:37:17
hype and right now the SEC does not have a framework to deal with that because the rules that existed didn't understand
00:37:26
social media and whatnot and he's also not a regulated entity he's just an individual now if it turns out that he
00:37:34
was selling while he was posting this stuff and trying to manipulate the market in some way obviously they could
00:37:40
find issue with that but just for him being a credible influencer and creating momentum for an underlying
00:37:52
position that in and of itself is not illegal saxs I think we have to go to judge Sachs here judge Sachs what is
00:37:58
your verdict R meme stock manipulation judge Sachs no I don't see any manipulation there I like Jamal said
00:38:05
this posting a meme what you saw gu not guilty what I see in that clip is Jim Kramer trying to stir up an SEC
00:38:12
investigation of Keith Gil for what I mean what exactly has he done here this is kind of the Wall Street Journal as
00:38:19
well if you look at the Wall Street Journal today there's an entire article basically with the headline is what
00:38:24
Keith Gil is doing illegal and I think you can view this in a different lens which is here is a an individual that is
00:38:32
totally outside of the establishment that however he's done it has gotten a hold of hundreds of millions of dollars
00:38:39
maybe even now billions if the stock keeps going and I think that that for the establishment that controls those
00:38:47
pipes very disconcerting right if he if he was one of those apex predators on Wall Street
00:38:54
if he was one of those major hedge funds that donates a lot of of money to the political Elite in other words if he was
00:39:01
a well-connected political player I doubt anyone would be asking these questions freberg you got thoughts on
00:39:07
this Market manipulation or meme ston fun good times you're buying GameStop you're buying AMC like buy or beware
00:39:17
you're you're in on the joke what are your thoughts Nick can you pull up the image I'm gonna talk about the stupidity
00:39:22
of buying the stock of this company valuation this is a uh company and and then I think we can talk about whether
00:39:30
that's even relevant which I think indication is that it's not GameStop finished the
00:39:38
year 2023 fiscal year with sales of 5.3 billion down from 5.9 billion the year before so sales
00:39:50
declined by 12% in the year adjust billion in Revenue selling games adjusted ebit for the year with 65
00:39:58
million and they have about 1.2 billion in cash currently as of today the market
00:40:04
cap is about 13.5 billion doar so that makes it about a 125 billion do Enterprise Value 12 A5 billion divided
00:40:12
by 65 million of ibata means that this stock is currently trading at about 192 times IA a business that is profitable
00:40:21
and you can say that the profits are stable and predictable and it's likely not going to grow very much well
00:40:27
typically trade for 7 to 12 times IA and the stock is trading at 192 times IA and
00:40:32
the revenue is declining 12% a year so I'll just point out like I don't think that there's anything about the actual
00:40:39
performance of the underlying business and the security that you are buying or selling when you were making a decision
00:40:44
about whether or not to buy or sell this security and I think that that's the real question does that even matter
00:40:49
clearly it doesn't let people have fun let them go to Vegas let them play in the roulette table they know what
00:40:56
they're getting into the disclosures are all there all the SEC filings are there
00:41:00
all the financials of this business are there what you're actually buying is publicly viewable you can look at it you
00:41:05
can make an investment decision as an individual investor and Trader and you want to blow your money trying to see
00:41:12
when the social trends are going to shift one way or another let it be your decision I think this is well said if
00:41:18
you're buying nfts if you're buying stonks like this if you're playing poker in a if you're playing bomb pots look it
00:41:25
up folks if you don't know what bomb pots are and you're going crazy playing bomb pots for eight hours like we did
00:41:30
the other week you're there to gamble if you are playing bomb Pots if this is the
00:41:36
bomb pots of the stock market have fun go crazy if you're buying nfts if you're buying crypto and token you know what
00:41:44
you're getting into there's no law there's no law that defines why you should or should not buy a security with
00:41:51
respect to the diligence you have individually done to determine whether the underlying business is worth the
00:41:57
price you're paying yes the law says that the businesses that are listing their Securities for public trading have
00:42:03
an obligation to make disclosures on their financials and any other material events to the public and they do that
00:42:08
through the SEC filing process that's all out there and then what you as an individual will do with it is up to you
00:42:13
enough with the nanny State go ahead sax so when's the right time to put a short
00:42:17
on this company by the way inv advice the stock is up the stock is up 40% today and then there's these reports
00:42:25
that came out yesterday on a bunch very big hedge funds that put very big short positions yesterday on the stock and
00:42:31
it's up 40% today so they're all going to get margin called so this is where you see the same thing that happened
00:42:36
last time where what was that guy's name the the capital uh Melvin PL G plot got blown out gonna get
00:42:47
blown out on the wrong side of the you're gonna get Plotkin you're about to get Plotkin don't get plen in a sarami yeah
00:42:56
that's what you don't want to do because you could lose it all in a Sac rucci or
00:42:59
it's basically a game where you know the redditors are they bid up they bid up the stock yes to levels that re
00:43:07
realistically it's not worth that much but it puts a big it basically creates a short squeeze so the stock flies up yeah
00:43:15
then the hedge funds know it's overvalued so they Bas put new shorts on and then they do the next shorts and
00:43:21
they'll do something that's even more dangerous which is they can get synthetically short so they'll they'll
00:43:26
add leverage to this using all kinds of esoteric derivatives that other banks on
00:43:31
Wall Street will happily sell them and then when those are disclosed then the redditors can just pump it even more
00:43:37
which causes massive margin calls so I think the thing that freeberg you're saying though this is this existential
00:43:43
thing that comes back it's happened in nfts it's happened in the Doom bubble it happened in spaxs it's happened in
00:43:49
crypto are we supposed to protect people and then the question is who is the Wii and are you supposed to say if
00:43:58
you're an adult and you can read then read the disclosures and you're on your own that's what the SEC says and that's
00:44:04
what the rule of law has been and so this is going to be an interesting test because instead of an organization it's
00:44:10
going to be a person in this case Keith Gill who will be the face of what happens to the stock because if a bunch
00:44:16
of people all of a sudden plow into this thing and then it goes to five it'll be
00:44:21
really interesting to see the reaction hey you should have saved us how could this happen you know he dumped this on
00:44:27
all of us and the answer is no he did not where was the government to save our day where was the government to protect
00:44:32
consumers that's with the nanny State that's the next cycle of the story the next cycle of the story is
00:44:37
the and you showed how the government protected everybody which was you showed the revenue and the profits and the
00:44:43
margins which is publicly available and you did it in two minutes I mean anybody
00:44:48
anybody can look at your analysis and and see you didn't even use a sophisticated model you used probably
00:44:53
the calculator app on your freaking Mac to figure out that it was back envelope no no no I'm sure he used
00:45:02
the calculator app so you the whole point is you can figure out that there's no logical
00:45:08
justification for this company using one Google search and the calculator app on
00:45:13
your Mac yeah it's on you I think the question is should we make all sports betting legal and all online casinos
00:45:20
legal so if you follow this to its natural conclusion let people do what they want why are all of the other
00:45:25
gambling Industries so tightly regulated I think there's aumers I think there's a
00:45:30
big difference well because we need a stock market we need we need the ability for companies to go public it just so
00:45:36
happens that you can get this weird effect where some stocks can become meme stocks but but that doesn't mean you
00:45:42
want to design the entire system of Securities laws around one or two meme stocks the fact of
00:45:50
matter is that investors are sufficiently protected by robust disclosure requirements
00:45:57
that apparently GameStop has followed all that information is out there you basically dismantled the company in like
00:46:04
2 minutes so anyone watching this show has all the information they need not to buy this stock at 190 times earnings
00:46:12
okay if they choose to follow that information yeah the other thing that you're saying which is really important
00:46:18
is you have to remember what the capital markets and the stock market is there for it's not meant for this this is a
00:46:24
small little culdesac but the over whelming majority of the capital markets and the equity markets is to allocate
00:46:30
excess Capital to good ideas that's what is usually happening there's a bunch of
00:46:35
us that will put a bunch of our money into things because we think it's the right thing to do and that is the
00:46:41
overwhelming majority of what is happening in the stock market every day and David's right every now and then one
00:46:46
of these things randomly comes up and every period of time there'll be a few parts of the market that go crazy but
00:46:54
the reality is that's not what the overwhelming majority of of the actions and that's not why the security are
00:46:59
there have you guys seen this guy his name is Tim nackie on Instagram so what this guy did this guy's incredible so
00:47:06
this guy went out and he basically bet 10 cents in online Blackjack because he's legally allowed to do it where he
00:47:12
lives I think he's in Australia or something oh yeah that's 10 cents for every follower he has on Instagram so
00:47:18
over the last couple of months he's been yeah he's been ra racking and racking up
00:47:21
the bets and he ended up doing these $100,000 plus bets because he got to over a million followers he ran this
00:47:27
thing up to over a million bucks and he quit but it's it's now he's formed like a blackjack Syndicate so everyone wants
00:47:32
to kind of Pile in and bet with him I think that there's this really interesting phenomenon of like social
00:47:36
betting everyone wants to be in a group together he's got hundreds of thousands of people that have put money in this is
00:47:41
so great and then he goes and does this online gam like Nick pull the video up I
00:47:44
just sent you watch how this guy and he's so entertaining he's awesome oh man sa this this could be deadly for saaks
00:47:50
saaks didn't know about this 78 Blackjack and 10 Instagram follow I've God there are 94 ,000 of your weapons
00:47:57
with us now so a $94,000 bet coming right up all righty ladies and gentlemen we have a
00:48:05
$94,000 going on the line for the 940,000 of your weapons with us 90 on the butt 2K each of the side bets this
00:48:12
blug definitely gloves up both hands on the golf course never has a black stood down such an impact on my life I'm not
00:48:19
healthy FAL gross seven versus six ah that might be a double down that might be I'll take three that's a double down
00:48:31
that's a double down that's a double down damn you go te for me here of course we're counting C 18 we'll take
00:48:38
the we will take the godamn to these pting Lords a glorious day for the 10 with the 10 10 on can I
00:48:47
get the job done again that'll go little will see you tomorrow you smug son of a
00:49:00
oh my God this is so great this guy is so good SX do you know about this that's some serious degeneracy it looks so fun
00:49:09
though all in Syndicate let's go one hand a day there's only one a day oh my God and every day his follower account
00:49:17
goes up so every day he bets more and then your follow and he ran this thing up to a million of profit oh so good I
00:49:22
haven't seen sax this awake during the Pod you don't get the 10 cents he keeps it
00:49:27
he started this just by betting his own money and he would put 10 cents down every day for how many followers he had
00:49:32
and so he he started betting more and more of his own money account that he can is it still
00:49:38
all of his money that he's betting so then as of a few weeks ago or like a two weeks ago he stopped betting his own
00:49:43
money he took the million off the table he called it a day and he set up a Syndicate and now people send their own
00:49:47
money in and now he's betting the syndicates money I love and so everyone Tunes in and he does one hand a day and
00:49:52
he keeps racking this thing up it's just what happens when he loses is there a day where he's lost a lot of money oh
00:49:57
dude you got to watch it good loser video it's so funny I want to see what happens when he loses like a b wait can
00:50:02
we hit this guy at the all-in summit plays online blackjack right so there's always like a fake dealer and he has all
00:50:09
this hilarious commentary on fake dealer what they look like set up an account at
00:50:13
bpn right now I'll be honest with you this may get me back on Instagram this is so juicy oh we should
00:50:21
get this guy out to the summit this guy's got to come to the summit and do a live hand with Mr big big shout out is
00:50:26
he on Tik Tok or no just in I think he only does insta Yeah Tim NE I haven't seen saak listen to freeberg on this
00:50:33
podcast more than he just did that was incredible you got Sax's attention saak did you know you could play live online
00:50:40
Blackjack from your phone did you know this did not did not know that this is important information for all of us big
00:50:47
day coming up there is 514 th000 of you in here now and a $1,400 beit coming up all right day 60 a
00:50:55
Monumental day we can hit the the 50k button here we will do $50,000 on the button we'll go $800 on the 21 + 3 $600
00:51:05
on the perfect Piers this is by far and away the biggest bit I have put on a table in my life we're trying to itch
00:51:12
ourselves into gambling immortality 14 Place three no oh it's a disgusting pull on day 60 with all the marbles on the
00:51:22
line we will stand and look for 10 T and bus TNT and bust TNT and bust come on the heroics to be a hero go yes yes yes
00:51:34
day 60 stick that in your pipe smoke it holy pulled it off oh my God we've broken the push streak with the
00:51:45
Adventures of Tintin and you better believe that means I'll see you tomorrow and I'll be bidding even more this guy's
00:51:52
got great energy can he do one live on the show next week oh day 55 oh here we go
00:51:57
Instagram follower I've got outrageously there is an extra 21,000 of you in here
00:52:01
today so $3 37,600 bit going on for the 376,000 of you Legends in here now coming right up
00:52:08
okay day 55 brings about a big godamn we have $36,000 on the button 1,000 on the 21
00:52:16
plus 3 and $600 on the perfect pair 37.6k total bits are closed we've just had a goddamn dealer change we've been
00:52:25
duped here I'm call I'm calling the commissioner play Oh 12v King oh my God before I before I hit the hit button I
00:52:36
will say this having talked to the morning Rumble this morning uh last time I spoke to the media about this journey
00:52:43
I I broke a sixday winning streak that day and I lost so if it happens again today this one's on Roger fary we need
00:52:49
to see 8 or9 go low no oh my God come on that dealer CH so dirty I guess you just
00:52:57
can't win them all but we've been on and I will see you tomorrow when we'll be bidding even more that dealer change was
00:53:05
so dirty you saw the dealer change at the last minute he came up and they changed the dealer they theyve done that
00:53:09
to me before I've been with you when they've done that ice they do that every time with you when you start running it
00:53:14
up they send in the dealer to ice you I think there's a particular dealer they've got you know they do they it's
00:53:20
like in the bullpen the blank cooler yeah we know the one the blank cooler I don't want to say anything but it's the
00:53:26
cooler we need this guy next week on the Pod to do the live bet and then we each
00:53:31
give him 5K how about that you guys in I've had them Trot out the cooler when I was playing craps once I was so mad and
00:53:38
I was on such a heater and what happens is you guys have seen me play crabs where it's like it's all Rhythm right so
00:53:45
it's like I get the dice in a certain way you know I do and then they bring in this guy and he was like a clutz it's
00:53:52
like Daniel de Lewis in my left foot all of a sudden he's everything over four dice fall off the table I got
00:54:00
so out of rhythm it was so hor I was so I want this guy in the Pod next week we're each
00:54:06
putting five dimes in we got 20K from all in let's do it that would be so much oh my God we should get him to play a
00:54:12
special Allin hand and let him run up our capital on the summit let's take the profits from the summit and do a live
00:54:19
hand we could put like a million bucks each on it we double up and then we're done with the Pod we don't have to do a
00:54:24
summit next year really good idea J really let's do it let's Let It Roll all right God this is so much
00:54:31
action for us I don't know if we can continue but there's more stories to come and just buyer beware I mean if
00:54:37
you're betting on this stuff I mean what do we have to tell you if you're betting
00:54:40
on GameStop no we don't have to tell you anything you're an adult you're an adult
00:54:44
right go to your own job well here's something really interesting put on your seat belt drive your don't drink and
00:54:51
drive don't use drugs that means like all of a sudden like we need to govern how you're not adult hey by the way if
00:54:58
you swim in Cape Cod alone in the deep water in the kelp bed you might get hit by a great white shark do whatever you
00:55:04
want and please just take responsibility for yourself because not our job absolutely I'm responsible for my
00:55:09
children not you well I mean also it's it's I just want to ask one question here is there anything with the short
00:55:15
selling that could there could be more disclosure on that shth just if the SEC was going to do something I hear that
00:55:20
bubble up once in a while should should short sellers be more disclosed I really
00:55:24
think that's a very good idea I do think that there are some short sellers who are doing it because they have to hedge
00:55:29
a position that they have but then there are other short sellers who are doing it
00:55:33
speculatively and there are synthetic instruments that banks will sell you to go massively super short that's how you
00:55:39
can get a situation where 140% of the stock is sold short which does shouldn't make sense if there's only a 100 shares
00:55:46
of a company how could it be that 140 Shares are sold short it's because you can have these synthetic explain
00:55:51
synthetic for the audience because I don't think people know this concept so there there are ways where if you have
00:55:57
a formal trading relationship with Wall Street and you you need to be of a certain size and they go through a
00:56:02
diligence process they give you so you know I have one called an isda and it's essentially an account and a framework
00:56:09
that you negotiate with a bank that allows you to call them and say hey give me a b or c and other times they'll call
00:56:16
you and say hey I have this really interesting way to play XYZ and one of the things that you can
00:56:22
do with them is you can say listen I want to go super super long or super super short a theme or a company and
00:56:31
they'll create a contract with between you and them that'll allow you to get that kind
00:56:37
of exposure now you're not supposed to do that on a regular basis nor are you supposed to lever this up this is
00:56:44
actually what blew up a different hedge fund called Aros I remember we covered it and in that I guess what happened was
00:56:53
the gentleman was calling many banks oh and doing all these things and One Bank didn't know what the other bank was
00:56:58
doing so all of a sudden there was this massive synthetic leverage that he was getting on I think it was news corpse
00:57:05
stock and then they found out then it was Unwound then he owed a bunch of money he couldn't pay it the whole thing
00:57:09
shut down the stock market went crazy so there does need to be that disclosure but there isn't a rule that says that
00:57:15
and every time somebody tries to introduce it the broker dealers basically Lobby and kill it so in a way
00:57:22
it's almost like a parallel universe where bets are occurring on outcomes in the stock market that are not tied to
00:57:28
the stocks in the stock market well it is tied in the sense that ultimately it all needs to feed back to an actual
00:57:34
physical share and so this is where all this price Behavior gets further Amplified I think the point is that
00:57:39
these forms of expressing risk yes can really amplify what would otherwise happen so in freeberg example most
00:57:46
people would sit there get the financials some would maybe say historically this thing looks like a
00:57:52
short or I wouldn't even buy it at all right but other people might say well if I listen to the chairman and I think
00:57:58
about the future maybe I go long that's a that's a fine thing you can enter the stock market and do that but all this
00:58:03
other stuff amplifies all these things to a degree that we're not really used to and let's be honest the people who
00:58:09
are betting I'll use the word betting here the people who are betting on these things are not looking to get a 7%
00:58:16
return or beat the average I mean they're looking to double their money in 48 hours they know what they're getting
00:58:21
in for they're just walking up to the roulette table and putting 10K on black or red and and then clapping and seeing
00:58:27
five Reds in a row and saying oh it's got to be black next I mean they're pH hel you with thing this they don't say
00:58:33
that when they lose the no of course not yeah no no personal ownership here well
00:58:36
here's an interesting thing that's sort of related a little bit of jurisdiction shopping or placing of companies and
00:58:44
products continues and Texas is very hot in this regard Black Rock and Citadel are backing New Stock A New Stock
00:58:51
Exchange to take on uh the New York Stock Exchange and the NASDAQ duopoly so of to the Wall Street Journal The
00:58:57
Exchange would be based in Texas and called the Texas Stock Exchange or the txse they've raised 120 million so far
00:59:03
it seems like a low number and the general pitch here is the New York Stock Exchange in NASDAQ have become expensive
00:59:10
and they've been increasing their compliance cost NASDAQ has a new Bard diversity Target that went into effect
00:59:17
at the start of this year all the Dei stuff and so this exchange is pitching itself as a CEO friendly and the
00:59:24
anti-woke exchange so here the plan timeline file an SEC registration docs later this year start facilitating
00:59:30
trades next year host the First new listing in 2026 interesting I guess that Citadel and black rock are in this group
00:59:37
because they could bring a lot of business obviously and you know some of this other stuff that's been going on
00:59:42
with Texas Texas is now Tesla's corporate headquarters they moved it from paloalto and California to Texas in
00:59:47
in 2021 your thoughts here chth on moving okay why why do you love it so much chth tell me competition
00:59:58
I do think that it's hard right now for companies to get access to Capital I think more diverse and more flexible
01:00:07
ways where smart investors can allocate their money into the ideas that they want are better I think that the duopoly
01:00:15
hasn't created enough competition so the NASDAQ and and New York Stock Exchange haven't innovated and in fact they
01:00:22
they've probably been a little regressive in terms of filing requirements listing requirements in
01:00:28
terms of board composition they've fallen for a bunch of things that don't actually point to the economic rationale
01:00:36
or value in a company and so I think if you have a third player there's a chance that more
01:00:42
competition will create more rational Behavior which will flow into the companies themselves so I'm a huge fan
01:00:49
of this I I think that the the stock exchanges right now are too brittle because and there's and that reason is
01:00:56
because there's only two of them freberg any thoughts for you about more options for I think part of
01:01:03
actually there's been these rules imposed by NASDAQ and New York Stock Exchange that have tried to enforce upon
01:01:14
the listed companies rules and regulations that are not tied to Securities laws including some of these
01:01:22
aspects of diversity of your board and I know that there have been a lot of public company board
01:01:27
members and CEOs that have quietly tried to push back on these rules that they're
01:01:33
imposing social systems upon you know what is effectively a regulated exchange and so there's certainly like an
01:01:40
interest and a pushing for a a competitive Marketplace for exchanges there was a survey done recently that
01:01:46
showed I got to find some of this data but it showed the cost of going public on NASDAQ MX or the New York Stock
01:01:53
Exchange was about $7.4 million cost of going public through an over-the-counter
01:01:57
bulletin board listing service was about $2 million and then there's these additional kind of rules that are being
01:02:03
imposed if you want to be listed on the big boards so clearly there's interest and it's great to see a competitive
01:02:09
market emerge you know how there have by the way there have been other attempts there's that long-term Stock Exchange
01:02:14
you guys remember that a couple years ago that was me to incentivize long-term Holdings there was two other Equity
01:02:22
security exchanges efforts made in the last couple years that didn't take off so this isn't super novel in terms of
01:02:28
like seeing a new Challenger exchange step up but I think more competition is always better all right in other news
01:02:35
apple and open AI have reportedly struck an iPhone deal according to Bloomberg apple is going to announce a major
01:02:41
partnership with open AI at WWDC next week chat GPT will be integrated into iOS which means apple is outsourcing its
01:02:48
AI chat B at least at the start I guess you could argue it benefits both sides because open a gets access to over a
01:02:55
billion phone users and apple gets a native integration of a top tier language model terms are not clear but
01:03:02
most people think this is going to be a short to midterm deal with Apple building out its own AI chatbot in the
01:03:08
future but it's just not ready for prime time right now also plans to make Siri AI powered and bring AI features to the
01:03:13
Apple ecosystem you have heard that Apple is going to try to let Siri dive deeper into Apps I.E if you were
01:03:21
ordering your door Dash or Uber Eats or an Uber or ayt or whatever it might actually be able to execute those things
01:03:28
inside of an app interesting line from the article Apple Executives were concerned about reputational damage from
01:03:34
a rogue chatbot some people within Apple have a philosophical aversion to having
01:03:38
a chatbot at all very interesting so thoughts on this Sachs just getting you back in the loop here well we kind of
01:03:48
predicted that something like this could or should happen we said that the big win for apple and AI would be to make
01:03:55
Siri actually work based on an llm because Siri just you know its understanding of language historically
01:04:02
has not been great and that's really limited the usefulness of it imagine if Siri worked with the conversational
01:04:09
abilities of chat gbt 40 if it had that level of semantic understanding if it could talk to you the way that 40 can
01:04:16
talk to you that would make Siri really powerful and you know for me siries is a
01:04:22
feature I've turned off because it's so annoying but oh it sucks right never works if you give it the power of the
01:04:29
best open AI model and then the speed of running it natively on the iPhone I don't know what they're going to do
01:04:35
about that but presumably there are things they can do to speed it up and then you give it access to the internal
01:04:42
apis you're using to control apps that could be really powerful now Siri could be an agent that you can just tell it to
01:04:50
do things and you know not just ask like the weather and the time and set alarms
01:04:54
well it's really interesting I think about this deal chth is Apple is having a hard time getting people to upgrade
01:05:01
their phones right and people have lost faith in the stock now you say hey we're
01:05:05
going to put a language model on here you can make it a local language model and have it be privacy protected so that
01:05:12
means you need more memory on the phone you're going to need another chip on the
01:05:15
phone it's going to there's a distinct reason to upgrade now if you had a language model on your phone and Siri
01:05:22
was like this super Siri that actually got stuff done I would upgrade my phone immediately and right now I skip two or
01:05:28
three generations what are your thoughts on this as a way to maybe reinvigorate the iPhone franchise Tom you buy it or
01:05:34
not no the problem is that we don't know what the right form factor for a super scaled consumer AI app looks like so
01:05:45
we've all all again I I'm not trying to be a wet blanket it's just that when you
01:05:48
look at what's building built so far I think most of the things we've seen are the friends and mys
01:05:57
spaces of this class of app we haven't seen the Facebooks and the Instagrams yet and the reason is because we haven't
01:06:06
experimented and pushed the boundaries of the form factor so for example in the first phases of social
01:06:13
networking the idea that you would collect information about all your friends and then create something called
01:06:18
a Newsfeed was totally shocking and I remember when we first released it people got really upset and then it just
01:06:26
became this de facto why were they upset about it tell me well it's this idea that you collected this information and
01:06:32
then you presented it about all of your friends was disconcerting in as a feature now if you don't have a Newsfeed
01:06:38
of some kind in your app for many apps it's DOA right so the same problem exists today all we've done today is
01:06:45
we've replicated an existing use case with a slightly better feature here or there nobody has gone out and said on a
01:06:54
blank canvas let me completely reimagine how consumers want value with these things
01:07:01
to enable it and until that happens we're just wasting time so the idea that apple with this thousand device is all
01:07:08
of a sudden going to figure out that this is why you're going to upgrade I think is pretty speculative and I think
01:07:14
they're going to be disappointed I think people have realized that four generations ago was more than enough and
01:07:21
on top of this the stuff that you value inside the iPhone is not what you're going to need for AI
01:07:29
so you know spending a trillion billion dollars on the fourth camera lens is not
01:07:35
going to be what solves this problem and so you're more likely to have a very simple earbud that is you know very
01:07:43
inconspicuous and discreetly in your inner ear well speaking information to you then you are and with a companion
01:07:50
$500 phone then I think you will be with a $1,500 you're in the new form factor I
01:07:56
I'm going to take the other side of the camp I think that because you have this data on your phone all your iMessages
01:08:02
all your documents all your photos videos music collection there's a unique set of data on that phone to make your
01:08:07
personal llm that's going to do extraordinary things for you because it's going to watch you and all your
01:08:12
behavior on that phone and man if I could have a personal llm that's been watching me order very specific sushi
01:08:18
rolls or you know where I set my Ubers what type of Ubers I like what music I play I feel like that llm to my point is
01:08:26
you don't need a $1,500 device to do that so if you spend $5 data set is so cool don't you data is Uber has the data
01:08:34
door Dash has the data Apple has you're missing my point the data of me clicking
01:08:38
on the screen that patter that is not Apple's to collect it's not they're not I it is I think they'll collect it put
01:08:44
it in there you have to you would have to fundamentally change the SDK the idea then that Apple can take a tax on that
01:08:49
is outrageous I think the whole app economy would blow up if Apple tried to do that oh I think it's the opposite I
01:08:55
think the app economy with five you have this like great thing where I could tell
01:08:58
it order the same thing I ordered on door Das encourage Apple to try to change the trims of service and see what
01:09:02
happens okay freeberg your thoughts on this any thoughts no okay well let's get to this it's time for science Corner
01:09:08
temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean are alarmingly high freeberg couple weeks ago we saw this uh crazy chart on the X
01:09:15
about the Atlantic ocean temperatures pre Hurricane Katrina right about now and uh take us through this
01:09:22
because it's very disconcerting there's not much to talk about except to highlight this image
01:09:28
which shows um again we talked about this a few months ago hot ocean temperatures
01:09:34
Drive hurricane and tropical storm activity because as the wind the air above the ocean starts to move the
01:09:42
energy from the ocean gets pulled out you know like things cool down the water cools down but that energy actually goes
01:09:48
back into pushing the wind to move faster and faster and that's how tropical storms Cyclones and hurricanes
01:09:55
are formed is warm ocean temperatures and there's been this kind of persistent warming since last year in the Atlantic
01:10:05
in this particular region where all the hurricanes form and normally the hurricane season starts kind of call it
01:10:11
August to October right now we are seeing temperatures that are so far beyond what we've seen anytime
01:10:18
historically this image that you're looking at here actually compares the ocean temperatures right now in the
01:10:23
Atlantic to where we were at the same time period in 2005 which was a record hurricane year obviously with hurricane
01:10:31
Trina right yeah and so their National Hurricane Center a lot of the climatologists are forecasting that over
01:10:38
the next couple of months we could see and should expect to see probabilistically much larger stronger
01:10:44
bigger more frequent hurricanes than we've ever seen historically so we'll see if it plays out just a very small
01:10:49
tidbit of news to share thought it be worth highlighting not getting a lot of main mainstream media press atten but
01:10:56
ask to just confirm a couple things for me because we live in a time where people are questioning Science And
01:11:02
scientists and we we have institutions we don't trust whether it's freeletter agencies in Washington or scientists and
01:11:09
all these papers being written and everything we're finding out and nobody trusts anybody and and we're sort of
01:11:14
resetting trust I want to just ask you as somebody I trust as a scientist number one global warming temperatures
01:11:21
increasing putting aside you know what we do about it temperatures in the ocean it is undeniable or increasing at a rate
01:11:28
that you would describe as concerning am I correct we have not seen in the modern
01:11:34
era temperatures in the ocean like we're seeing now that's a fact right so I'm not I'm not going to do this whole big
01:11:41
prognosis on everything all inone because I think that's where people feel like there's rooms for discrediting
01:11:47
things yeah we can be very specific about things here's an example so this is the sea surface temperature going
01:11:53
back to 1981 okay and as you can see at this point in the year and you know the temperature oscillates because of the
01:11:59
way the the Earth tilts towards the sun um and so at this point in the year we are seeing right now sea surface
01:12:07
temperatures that are beyond anything we've seen historically and it is continuing to climb so if this does not
01:12:13
taper off or level off we will see record sea surface temperatures in the August to October time frame which will
01:12:20
almost certainly push massive hurricane events out of the Atlantic and they will
01:12:25
find their way towards the Continental this super clarifying this should not be controversial to anybody we have
01:12:30
temperature readings in the ocean and this is simp data it's just simply data right so you know putting aside what
01:12:36
political party you on and what you think about gas and oil I will tell you there's a lot of theory one one of the
01:12:40
theories so there's theories about Alo there's theories about climate change contributing to this there's also a
01:12:46
theory about sulfur dioxide that is now been banned in shipping and cargo vessels that okay go across the oceans
01:12:54
last year B sulfur dioxide use in the the fuel that's that's coming out of these and sulfur dioxide actually
01:13:00
reflects sunlight so as it goes up into the air into the atmosphere coming out of these ships it actually blocks and
01:13:06
reflects light so that would make the oceans cooler and so a lot of folks have said that over the last couple of
01:13:12
decades we've actually dampened the temperature and the warming that's happened on Earth because of all the
01:13:17
sulfur dioxide we've been putting up into the atmosphere but because sulfur dioxide causes acid rain
01:13:22
environmentalists have been pushing for years to ban sulfur dioxide the problem is with Banning sulfur dioxide you may
01:13:29
have this other side effect which is now more rapid increased warming got it of the surface and of the oceans so these
01:13:35
are complex systems and you we should be delicate with them if you were to give us a prescription here
01:13:43
freeberg what's like a basic prescription are we just experimenting in a way that is not
01:13:50
advisable with you know this ecosystem and we should just not run the experiment I think that might be like a
01:13:59
non-political non-charge way to say it like this experiment is a little bit too crazy to run on the one planet Earth we
01:14:05
have yeah which experiment the experiment of doing things that increase global warming which would be you mean
01:14:13
living well yeah I mean not burning fil an experiment people are just acting in their own economic best interest yes and
01:14:21
if that economic best interest increases temperature so much you have a fear freeberg that it will
01:14:27
compromise the oceans and and damage them to a point that would be extremely concerning is I guess what I'm getting
01:14:32
at there is a reduction in biodiversity that's under way we can see that like using data but to chim's
01:14:39
point humans have prioritized the progression of individuals forward China had a billion people that came out of
01:14:48
poverty in 30 years yeah and they came out of poverty because of the industrialization of the production of
01:14:54
consumable goods that that population gets to consume they get access to more calories they
01:14:58
get access to More Foods they get to have cars they get to have houses all of that making cement making concrete all
01:15:03
of those things require Industrial Systems and those Industrial Systems have a cost that cost is the dollar
01:15:10
economic cost which we're kind of rationalizing with greater productivity then there's this whole cost that's
01:15:14
externalized got we understand that yeah sure so so that's the the tension is like if you're wealthy if you're a
01:15:20
wealthy Nation if you're the Western Europe or the United States you get to stand up and say stop carbon but if
01:15:27
you're the rest of the world you're like I want to have a home I want to have a car you want to have the same Evol that
01:15:33
America went through or Europe I want I I want to progress as a as a person I want to progress as a society and that's
01:15:39
the tension that makes this a very difficult problem to resolve which is how do more of the world get to progress
01:15:46
while being cognizant I'm trying to get at freeberg I am deeply optimistic so let me just say this oh yeah because
01:15:52
that's what I'm getting at are you optimistic or are you pessimistic tell us I believe strongly that there is a
01:15:58
strong relationship between the output of atmospheric carbon and the delar effects
01:16:03
we see in ecosystems okay that is something I feel like is true from data I am not however as pessimistic that the
01:16:11
world is going to end in the next decade or two because I see improvements in productivity meaning how many units we
01:16:17
get out for every Unit in or how many units we get out for every unit of carbon that's emitted and those
01:16:23
productivity meaning better technology systems are rapidly changing how we make things and how people are accessing
01:16:30
goods and services and I think that that's why I am like because I'm a techno Optimist I'm optimistic about
01:16:36
where things are head are headed and it is also why I get very angry and upset about any efforts or attempts to slow
01:16:42
down the adoption of Technology because these things will pull people forward and make that happen faster without all
01:16:49
the dilar side effects that we've unfortunately had to do in the absence of technology so trath I'll pull you in
01:16:55
here so based on what freeberg is saying here yes these things are occurring but
01:16:59
the technology and the advances we're seeing in but one example solar and then some people might bring up nuclear and
01:17:04
other ones we just had Phil deuts at my conference this week give a great talk on this solar is just getting so cheap
01:17:12
batteries are getting so cheap putting batteries in your home putting solar in you know and then putting data centers
01:17:17
next to nuclear things this is all adding up to we can solve this problem and so you two feel optimistic about
01:17:23
this yeah totally I think that climate change stalled when it was an emotional and philosophical rallying cry largely
01:17:31
of the left when instead it became something about resilience and domestic manufacturing both sides came together
01:17:41
and I think we're at a point now where the US's energy Independence plus the amount of Reliance on non-carbon based
01:17:51
fuels will drive a sea change in the United States I think it'll be copied in Western Europe and it's also going to be
01:17:58
at enough of a low price point where it'll get embraced in the developing world so it's a it's an incredible
01:18:05
example of if you want to take an idea and a bunch of solutions and want to die on the hill of
01:18:15
messaging and platitudes it'll make no progress but if instead you're willing to sort of be less extreme about it and
01:18:23
actually just frame it in economic value ad all of a sudden everybody Embraces it
01:18:29
and it just becomes obvious so I think that we're going to do wonders over the next 20 and 30 and 40 years all over the
01:18:38
world to push back on the General State of warming but I think it will have happened because the economic incentives
01:18:46
aligned not because of an a philosophical or emotional framing of the issue all right everybody
01:18:54
this has been in a very productive episode of the number one podcast in the world the Allin podcast and good luck
01:19:02
tonight gentlemen with your fundraiser I wish you great luck David Saxon chth po
01:19:06
hopp even if it's not my preferred candidate that's totally fine we could all differ and you can have a great
01:19:12
great event tonight good luck I have one thing okay go ahead Jam I have one more
01:19:16
birthday in my family today making us all look bad this is one of the most incredible people in my life
01:19:25
charismatic funny Charming intelligent it is my bestie David friberg's birthday today oh it is love you DAV we love you
01:19:35
David we had a nice little h birthday cake at the liquidity Summit this week for him I had a had had a cake made
01:19:41
thank you for showing happy birthday and here we go and and it's also AK-47 Alan
01:19:46
King's birthday today as well another have the same Love Alan keing is is 45 and one is 47
01:19:54
what here we go it's karma do you know the significance of that of course he's going to win all the odd number
01:20:02
elections and there we go here we go I think it's a sign it's a sign listen I wish good luck to you all tonight I hope
01:20:09
that uh it goes off well for you for you gentlemen and listen I would love to have Trump on the Pod would love to have
01:20:16
Biden on the Pod like all things we just want to have a great conversation here we keep it respectful sometimes it gets
01:20:21
a little chippy but we love each other and we love you the audience for participating in this don't fall for the
01:20:26
mainstream media's nonsense in trying to divide and conquer we got important tasks to do and problems to solve in the
01:20:32
world and the way we do that is through great conversations hopefully we set a tone an example for everybody else have
01:20:38
just had to do that we still love each other and uh we sometimes some elbows get flown and it's all good chamath
01:20:44
saaks good luck tonight freeberg uh happy birthday and bye bye we'll see you all next time on the number one podcast
01:20:53
in the world you all In Pockets tell your friends about it love you byebye love you let your winners
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should all just get a room and just have one big hug orgy cuz they're all this useless it's like this like sexual
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year at the all in Summit we had a wonderful talk by Jenny just and they have a very cool program called Power
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of the women who work at my Venture firm launch have joined and they're looking forward to learning poker again 80 spots
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I think they charge 100 bucks just to make sure you show up and uh there's an all Summit ticket there for you you can
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actually see the video of this podcast on YouTube youtube.com Allin or just search Allin
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understanding when we hit a million subscribers so look for that as well you can follow us on xx.com thee all inpod
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and check out Sax's slack killer glue glue. I'm Jason kakanis I amx.com Jason and if you want to see pictures of my
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Bulldogs and the food I'm eating go to instagram.com Jason in the first name Club you can listen to my other podcasts
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this week in startups just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player we are hiring a researcher apply
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to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick working in data and
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Science and being able to do great research Finance Etc all in podcast.co resesarch it's a full-time job working
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with us the besties and really excited about my investment in Athena go to Athena wow Athena wow.com and get
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yourself a bit of a discount from your boy jcal beow wild.com we'll see you all next time when the all in podcast