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all right everybody as you know there was a big verdict that came out today in the Trump trial in New York City however
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it came right after we were taping so enjoy this episode and then at the end we'll go around the horn and get quick
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reaction from each of the besties on what they think of the Trump guilty verdict in the New York hush money trial
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and a little update on the market close and tech stocks tanking in after hours trading stick with us man
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what a week I've had oh you have an intro oh I smell an intro tell us J what kind of week have
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you had what kind of week have you incredible you know I got uh you know I've always been a fan of Howard Stern
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and uh his agent Don buckwell called me he saw the show last week is all true and uh they said they want to start a
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production company so I started a production company and I've already got my first show I've signed my first show
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The Pilot what is the show well here it is let me show you thanks for asking what you are witnessing is
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real the besties are not actors the cases are real both parties have agreed to settle their disputes here in our
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Forum jcal production the rainman's court yeah lafare on today's show shamama guilty of first degree un
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buttoning freedberg accused of plastic perjury Jason appealing his grifting conviction throwing the book at felonius
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fouchi welcome to the stand Judge David Sachs H water burn baby nice that's really good it's a first show from Jake
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I'm the judge then what does that make you are you like the BFF like I'm kind of like the host you know like the um
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this guy who does American Idol Ryan seest I'm like going to be the new Ryan seest that's what they envisioned for me
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and that's my first spin-off show so here we go let your winners ride Rainman [Music]
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David said we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy [Music] with there's a lot of news my inbox is
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blowing up I went over to threads to see what was going on over there and I got absolutely Savage threads is like all
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the hall monitors left one school like if they took the four hall monitors from every school in the country and you put
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them all in one place what is threads is like uh Zuckerberg's Twitter Revenge killer that
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he created but all the journalists and woke folks went there and then all the conspiracy theories took over X and
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Twitter and like freedom of speech in one place and then the hall monitors in the other but my Lord the inbound I'm
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getting Sachs on apparently you're having a party this Thursday and uh a couple of people are coming a Suare well
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it's my birthday it's my birthday party oh yeah okay so there's a little Suare happening saaks Enlighten the audience
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uh what are you up to well we're hosting an event for president Trump just do a spit T I'm sorry what
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did you say you spit all your water what yeah we're we're hosting an event for the on Once and Future
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president 45 and 45 is soon to be 47 who's we as I saw from your own polling data that you tweeted this morning Jason
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oh God it's so dark it's so dark's I mean the betting markets are just basically they they
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seem to have already made their decision the betting markets right and the betting markets they're not always right
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but they were wrong actually about Hillary and Trump so who knows and po polling historically has underestimated
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Trump's support because people have been reluctant to say they're supporting him
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for some reason so yeah things are looking very positive for for Trump right now but in any event we're hosting
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a a fundraiser for him and um he said that he wants to come on the all-in Pod at some point so we just need
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to schedule that and by the way we did this for let's not forget we did this for RFK Jr yeah he appeared on the Pod
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we did a fundraiser for him we did it for V RMA Swami came on the Pod we did a fundraiser for him we did it for Dean
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Phillips yeah that's right Chris chrisy came on and Chris chrisy came on although I don't think we technically
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did a fundraiser but we would have and we've asked President Biden and we have not heard back and and when we
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sorry sorry let me just let me askam so first of all who's we and chamat would you host a fundraiser for Biden as well
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as Trump absolutely look here's the thing I am an apolitical person who has to make a difficult decision every four
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years and I think most of us are like that I don't think it's so easy to wake up in the morning and say oh I'm clearly
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a Republican or I'm clearly a Democrat there's parts of both sides that appeal to me and so you have to make these
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reason decisions and then that gets even more complicated right so the most important thing for me is get as many
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people on in a position to tell their version of the truth so that you can see an unfiltered version of that truth and
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decide for yourself so I was really blown away when I heard Dean Phillips and Bobby and I thought there's parts of
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both of those platforms that I agree with there's parts that I disagree and the same thing happened when I sat down
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with VI I thought that I wouldn't agree with much I ended up agreeing with a lot
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there's a lot of stuff that Trump in hindsight again as I've said before that he did which was really helpful to
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America and one big thing which had he done frankly sets up our children which is these hundred-year bonds and
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defraying the cost of all of this indebtedness far out into the future so there's many things and I think there's
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things that Biden has done that I think will look back and say those were good things that he did and then there are
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things in the future or today that I think that we could disagree with as well so the point is I would like this
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place to be a place where impartiality rules where we can be on all sides of an issue and just decide what makes the
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most sense after looking at the facts and I would like four years from now every major political candidate for
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president to look at Allin as the first place and I think if we can earn that trust and have the Integrity to allow
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all sides to tell a fair story that is going to be a really powerful thing and an artifact to leave behind for people
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well in fact our K believes that we shot him out of a cannon is I think what he said or something and that that we got
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the sort of cany going V I think also kind of debuted here in a major way to be clear all Inn isn't hosting the
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fundraiser sax you and chamath are I'm not donating I'm not going freeberg you're not donating I don't know if
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you're going or not I think you told me you're not going you're not donating or going got it okay he waved his hand um
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and so I don't know look donating to local candidate as a individual choice that each person's have to decide if
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they want to do it right as Americans we can do that yeah if you're willing to open your pocketbook which I know
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Jason's not something that you're inclined to do very often no I mean I I don't I'm not like big into politics and
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the idea of giving money to politicians to me not my thing you know I have I'd rather invest in the next startup to be
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totally honest if I'm going to put 50k towards something or God forbid 250k for me I'll put that in a startup that's
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what I like to do but you know everybody's different and you know for the people who are asking me to not be
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friends with Sachs anymore I'm going to be friends with SX forever we love each other besties and he can have a
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different opinion than me I I'm getting totally absolutely crucified that I'm supporting Trump and how could I be
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friends with SX go f yourself sax is my friend we can have a difference of opinion on some topics good for you J
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maybe you could learn something from it good for you sorry I'll just say I've heard the same thing and I told friends
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and others that have reached out why are you associating yourself with people that are doing a fundraiser for Trump
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and I said exactly because I think it's really important that people can have different political interests different
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points of view different beliefs and still be friends and still have a conversation if we can model that in any
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way I think it moves the needle because this whole thing where you only speak with only hang out with only talk to
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only have dinner with people that you agree with I think is exactly what got us in the mess that we're in today
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people need to have a broader perspective so well said and and I and I'll support you guys with what ever in
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terms of like being your friends I'm not going to ever judge you guys in terms of
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what you believe in or choose to do we've said this before but you know in the end what do you have you have your
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family you have your children you have your friends and hopefully you have work that gives you some purpose and in all
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of that if there are random people that are judging you for one thing they'll eventually judge you for another thing
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and that is not a path to any sort of contentment I've donated to Bobby Kennedy I've donated to the Democrats
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massively and I'll donate to Donald Trump and if there's an opportunity to uh talk to President Biden and really
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understand where he's at I donate to him as well and so the point is that I would
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like to be an organizing principal and I would like to replace today the places that I don't
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trust to organize and give unfiltered access to knowledge and those things are the mainstream media and so I'm willing
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to put my resources behind being that organizing principle and I think having a broad cross-section of friends who
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have different political beliefs is actually a useful thing for a lot of these candidates because as it turns out
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most people are sort of in the middle and most people in any given election can be persuaded one way or the other so
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the most important thing that we can do is get all of them give all of them an opportunity to really tell an unfiltered
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version of their truth and then let the chips fall where they may that is the right thing to do for America that's
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what democracy means so this kind of like cajoling and bullying in either side I find really distasteful and I
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find very immature yeah and it's not going to work what's amazing is I mean I really haven't gotten any blowback you
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know there was a question about people ask me have you gotten blowback from this thing and no not really I mean
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other than the reporter knocking on my door and that kind of stuff but people really same it hasn't really created
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blowback and I think you guys are getting more blowback and that's an indication of just sort of the Cowardly
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response to it which is you know it's like a cancellation tactic we're going to try and like go behind your back and
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ostracize you instead of even telling you to your face what you think and I think the reason why they're doing that
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is because quite frankly there's a lot of preference falsification going on in Silicon Valley I know there's a lot of
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people in Silicon Valley who well we know because of we know who's coming yeah you have a list of people
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who don't I mean look nobody is excited about Biden okay nobody's excited about right now so the only question is do
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they hold their nose and vote for him or do they vote for Trump or do they vote for Bobby Kennedy but there's a lot of
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people who I do think support Trump and look we've AB tested this right it'd be different if we didn't have four years
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of Biden four years of trump there's a lot of people who can look back and say that the ab test we ran indicates Trump
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so I know there's going to be a lot of people who support Trump but they don't want to admit it and I think that this
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event is going to break the ice on that and maybe it'll create a preference Cascade where all of a sudden it becomes
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acceptable to acknowledge the truth and which is a lot of people support Trump and and it's not just this it's also
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Steve schwarzman came out I think bill amman's on the edge of coming out for Trump so there's a lot of people who are
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now like flipping and I think it could really start to Cascade on itself I think the thing that hasn't happened yet
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is we haven't actually now started to talk about the Contours of a handful of policy things where there is some deep
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diversion now where these candidates are diverging from each other and I think that that's going to be really
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interesting to see how much people value that differentiation I'll give you an example which is President Trump in the
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last few weeks has become incredibly Pro crypto now the Contours of that I think
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we need to Define right but the question is is a pro crypto environment especially in a world where we think
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that there's just going to be continued doll debasement an important issue an unimportant issue or a thing that is a
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small issue today but that will be critical for us in 20 and 30 years to get right that's an example and there's
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a handful of these other things that I think that now we have a chance to really double click on where there
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really is some differentiation amongst the three presidential candidates and I think that's healthy as well and so it's
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important again get their specific thoughts on the record so that we can really figure this out and I think that
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over these next few months I think it's going to be important to do that so I hope President Biden also comes on the
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Pod quite honestly and come on the allows us to ask him the hard questions and I hope Bobby comes back on
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actually and I think Bobby will if we ask him just to tighten up where he's at now a few months before yeah there's
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definitely a lot of great followup questions I would love to interview Trump I'll ask him hard questions I'll
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respect him as president 45 and as a candidate so for people who like are like you have Trump derangement syndrome
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like that's just like a childish thing to say I I disagree with his policies I'll ask him questions hey why don't you
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support EVS like that's a valid question to ask him why is he anti- EV he said all these crazy things about EVs and
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then apparently he's courting yon privately I don't know if that's true or not but you know there's there's hard
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questions and I'm sure he'll answer them and he's more than capable of doing it exced I'm really I'm really excited for
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president Trump to come on the podcast love that and for me I'll be totally honest I think the Democrats have to
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wake up for a second and just like take the temperature of the room like read the room Democrats you have put up a
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candidate that nobody wants his policies on the border and some other issues are
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not you know in sync with the majority of the country at some point the Democrats just have to take a deep look
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in the mirror James Carell is doing and a bunch of them are doing and say we feeled a bad candidate who's too old and
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people don't believe will stand up to scrutiny of like say being on the all-in Pod for two hours or in the debates or
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with a hostile interviewer or any of those possibilities and so I think if that's the case we
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really need to have the Democrats think deeply about maybe fiing a different candidate I believe that's what's going
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to happen in the next 30 to 60 days so I'm predicting you think there G be a switch foro 100% I mean if you
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just 100% there'll be a Switcheroo who's the switcheroo I have no idea could be Gavin could be anybody anything's
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possible I think Trump's going to demolish him in the debate I think he'll sink to 30% in the in the polls and then
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the Republicans are going to find a I'm sorry the Democrats will find a way to give him a graceful out and then they'll
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feel somebody else when's the first debate June 17th can I respond to that J I saw your Tweet basically saying
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something very similar that Democrats need to wake up and you know recognize the situation they're in I think this is
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a case of once you've made your bed you have to sleep in it look the Democrats have set the table pursuing certain
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policies for the last three and a half years we've had an open border we had so much spending that it fed into this
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inflation which jacked up interest rates we had Ukraine become the central Obsession of focus of our politics which
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blew up in Biden's face with the whole Sumer counter offensive I mean I could go on you have the hostility to crypto
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which they're now trying to desperately backpedal on but you had three years of Elizabeth Warren and gendler basically
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making crypto the enemy and now all of a sudden we're at first and goal at that like 10 yard line and you're all of a
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sudden saying well just read the room and make all these changes you can't you know I don't think people are going to
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be fooled by that we've AB tested this thing we've had three and a half years of Biden four years of trump who do you
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like better and we're what how many months are we from pulling the the lever five
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months never too late I'm telling him to do it don't take Sax's advice he is a hardcore partisan who wants to win
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desperately take JC's advice field another candidate the worst thing the Republicans could ever deal with is a
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great candidate who can speak and who's Nimble on their feet because I think people are looking for a choice that's
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not these two individuals I'm not gonna say I'm anti-trump I'm not gonna say I'm
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anti why don't you support Bobby Kennedy then I don't think he's gonna have the platform behind him to get enough votes
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I think the Democrats need to immediately this month in June do the switcheroo and if they do I think they
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win in a l they had chance they had their chance they could have gone for Bobby they drove Bobby out of the party
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start he didn't start as independent he started as I know by his last name Democrat Kennedy Democrat you had Dean
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Phillips Dean Phillips took the chance yeah and of course he was pushed out not of the party but basically ostracized
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they had their chance I think you know if I want to be a strategist this is just a conspiracy theory I don't want to
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go to like chin foil hat corner I think the Democrats as cynical as it sounds were waiting to see what happens with
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this Trump trials conviction what you call law fair what other people call fair use of the law and then they are
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going to see how he does in the debates that's why they move the debate up in June and I think they know to pull the
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plug on this if it gets too far gone and they have the ability to do that because
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all he's got to say is you know what I I I'm I'm feeling old and I want us to win
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and I'm going to slot somebody else in but listen let's go get to this hug translate what you just said which is
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the Democrats hope to put Trump in jail using lawfare and when that fails they realize that they're going to lose the
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election to him and they've got a big problem so they're going to try some desperate strategy to find a new
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candidate but it's way too late for that I think precisely okay we AG thank you for
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repeating back to me and I think the only disagreement we might have there is I would agree like there's law for in
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two of the cases and I think two of the cases I think are are should be pursued but you know we can intelligent people
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as we said at the start of this can agree to disagree about it and I think you should all take if you're a listener
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to this podcast you're smart if you're here you're smart you're not listening to two-hour podcasts with us going this
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deep on isues if you're not a brilliant smart and attractive individual so let's
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get to the docket and presid yes that's right just say he heard brilliant and attractive and here
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all right listen I I hate to go into another um controversial topic but the four of us were all on fire about this
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apparently the uh covid-19 investigation is leaning towards a massive cover up there's a subcommittee going on right
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now the world's not paying attention to this but I think some Savvy people are especially over on X there's a lot of
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great journalists who are doing incredible investigative work let me just catch everybody up in the audience
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real quick here and get the best these involved over the past year and a half a house subcommittee uh has been focused
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on the origins of covid-19 and they've been investigating the nih's ties with gain of function
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research in Wuhan the subcommittee was painted early on as like this is angry Republicans this is about mask mandates
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it was like highly politicized but it's actually turned out to be very effective
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bipartisan investigation we'll get on we'll get in on that in a minute but so far most of the investigation has
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focused on nailing down this timeline of communication between NIH officials and
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an organization called Eco Health Alliance this is a nonprofit that's focused on infectious disease research
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now these uh committee videos are online we'll pay you play you on in a moment but through funding in the NIH the uh
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Eco Health Organization was awarded research grants to various labs this included the Wuhan Institute of virology
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the the infamous one Eco Health violated terms of its grants by failing to report
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that gain of function experiments were being conducted in Wuhan Ecco Health was supposed to report any experiment that
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exhibited characteristics leading into being 10 times more infectious but when that happened it failed to disclose This
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research to the mih and on May 17th a deputy director of the NIH acknowledged that the agency funded gain of function
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research in Wuhan via Eco health this is the key because fouchi initially denied this during his 2021 Senate
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hearing fouchi said quote I totally resent the lie you are now propagating in response to questions from Rand Paul
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about the lab League Theory so foui either didn't know or he lied under oath let me pause there for a second there's
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a lot more to the story but when you hear this sort of setup freedberg our Sultan of Science in this uh initial
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setup what Rings uh concerning to you true to you and then we'll go on and play some clips of this testimony which
00:21:00
is pretty wild I don't think that pre the emergence of the pandemic that there was nefarious motives in other words
00:21:10
their funding of this was not done to create a pandemic it might have been a mistake in hindsight but yeah for for
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many years particularly following the original SARS pandemic there was a lot of conversations around how do we get in
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front of the next pandemic how do we figure out what's coming and how do we prepare for it and there was a lot of
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research that was launched to try and resolve that key question this is like the movie 12
00:21:37
Monkeys you guys ever see that movie at one point sure it's like does the effort
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to try and stop the problem cause the problem I think that for from my point of view there's a very high probability
00:21:49
that there was some leak that meant that the work that was going on to try and get in front of the
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next pandemic and understand what we could do to prepare ourselves and what vaccines could be developed and so on
00:22:01
actually led to the pandemic so then when that happens how do you respond when you're sitting in that
00:22:05
seat that's that's the key question that I think this committee is uncovering do
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you think there is a cover up freeer what is your intuition on that yeah I think that these guys definitely didn't
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want I I think what they were trying to do was prevent that from being the focal
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point and protect their own asses at the same time do you think they should go to
00:22:21
jail I don't know the extent of it yet it'd be good to get more information from this whole thing yeah so let me
00:22:26
queue up those next details because I will say this guy that gave testimony last week where he was like deliberately
00:22:31
changing the names of people in the email Anderson and he put the dollar sign so that you couldn't find that
00:22:36
email when you did a Foya search he knew what he was doing he knew I don't understand how you could say this wasn't
00:22:43
nefarious this whole thing was nefarious from top to bottom well yeah let me cue
00:22:47
this up here sax and then get your why are you exonerating it hold on let me ceue it up all right so we started to
00:22:51
see some uh consequences and accountability last week the US Department of Health cut all funding to
00:22:57
Eco Health in respon to the committee's investigation they disbarred its president Peter daik daik yeah daik and
00:23:05
so we don't have direct evidence to be clear that the pandemic was the result of a lab
00:23:10
league and you know just even saying the lab league would have gotten this the fear and cleavage site makes it clear
00:23:18
that this was a lab leak that's not a naturally occurring virus the fear and Cleveland sites were engineered let's go
00:23:25
to that in just one second and thankfully this isn't going to get our YouTube channel shut down because we
00:23:31
have freedom of speech back a little bit but this is where it gets really interesting emails were written as Ecco
00:23:39
Health with a Tilda that's that little squiggly line uh instead of an O and uh they would spell Anderson uh with a
00:23:47
dollar sign in the E Christian Anderson in this example is a biologist who was reportedly awarded 9 million grants from
00:23:54
the NIH two months after publishing a paper claiming did Co did not come from a lab and so let's get to some of these
00:24:00
clips here's a clip of Fouch she's former top adviser David Moren getting grilled in the hearing and I'll play two
00:24:08
clips and then I'll give it to you s on October 25th 2021 another scientist wrote quote David is concerned about the
00:24:14
privacy of text and other messages from his cell phone to you and me because he has been using a government phone this
00:24:21
came from Tony end quote sir did you ever have any conversations with Dr fouchy regarding using personal phone or
00:24:28
email to communicate with Dr daic I don't remember it it's possible you know I probably wouldn't have remembered and
00:24:34
I don't remember it on January 18th you testified that you did not have any conversations with Dr fouchy regarding
00:24:41
Ecco Health on October 25th 2021 you wrote quote Peter from Tony's numerous recent comments to me they're trying to
00:24:51
protect you end quote you meaning Eco health and Dr Dass Dr Bren did you ever have any conversations with Dr fouchy
00:25:00
regarding Eco Health well the ones you just mentioned I don't have any recollection of that no recollection no
00:25:07
recollection no all right so we're on the no recollection train and then I'll give this final clip here this is
00:25:14
unbelievable sax apparently there's a Foya Lady Lady Freedom of Information Act lady working at NIH to train and
00:25:22
help and Mentor people on how to avoid having their Communications these are people who we work who work for us and
00:25:31
she's the foil lady at NIH play the clip Nick and as You' said you previously testified that uh you did not delete any
00:25:39
federal records but on February 24th 2021 you wrote quote I learned from our Foya lady here how to make emails
00:25:45
disappear after I'm Foy yet but before the search starts so I think we are all safe plus I deleted most of those
00:25:52
earlier emails after sending them to Gmail endend quote and the next day on February 25th 2021 you wrote quote but I
00:25:59
learned the tricks last year from an old friend Marge Moore who heads our foia office and also hates foas end quote yes
00:26:07
or no is Marge Moore the Foya lady you were referring to uh she was at the time I believe she's retired since then did
00:26:15
the NIH Foya office instruct you on how to delete emails or avoid Foya no all right SX there's your red meet smoking
00:26:23
guns everywhere what do you think please give me a couple of minutes to kind of lay out what what happened here okay
00:26:30
so fouchy knew very early as early as February 1st of 2020 that Co came from a lab leak the scientist said so all they
00:26:38
had to do is look under our microscope and see the fur and cleavage site which is not naturally occurring it's
00:26:44
something that was added basically bioengineered to the virus in order to make it more transmissible in humans so
00:26:52
they knew right away that this somehow came from a lab leak and fouchy and col said in emails that they were going to
00:27:00
begin a brutal takedown uh in order to conceal this fundamental truth of the lab leak from the public now why would
00:27:07
fouchi need to conceal this because he had funded gain of function research programs via Peter daik and the Eco
00:27:14
Health Alliance to conduct again gain of function research at the Wuhan Institute
00:27:19
of virology moreover fouchy was personally responsible for reversing an Obama error decision to prohibit gain of
00:27:27
function research because it was so risky fouchy wrote op-eds justifying gain and function
00:27:33
research he wrote a paper in 2012 which was actually quite candid about the risk
00:27:38
of gain of function he describes the kind of lab leak that could occur in the type of virus that could escape from a a
00:27:46
lab because of gain of function but then he says that it's a risk worth taking so
00:27:51
this is somebody who funded the Wuhan lab he funded gain of function research he was personally responsible for
00:27:58
lifting the ban on gain of function research he had a lot of reasons to want to hide the fact that Co was engineered
00:28:06
in a lab and was lab leak and so we know that even before this conspiracy to basically defraud the foyer request that
00:28:14
fouchy had done things like organized that letter to the Lancet which smeared and demonized scientists who were trying
00:28:21
to tell the truth saying that the so-called Zoological theory was nonsense this had to be from a lab he was doing
00:28:28
things like this and now we have this added piece which is this longtime colleague of fan Collins at NIH Dr David
00:28:36
morens developed a strategy for evading foyer requests that would expose the truth he did this by deleting government
00:28:42
emails which is a crime by using private email to conduct government business which is also a crime and then
00:28:48
strategically misspelling names and titles to frustrate the foyer searches and then the craziest part is that
00:28:54
moren's foolishly detailed his schemes in emails that fouchy would have seen that fouchy was on the distribution list
00:29:02
of so he has no possible deniability it's literally like they're like here's how we can avoid getting caught in an
00:29:07
email you have to see the foyer piece within the overall picture here which is yeah fouchy from the gecko was
00:29:18
lying about the origins of covid in order to cover up his role in in funding this type of research yes and there was
00:29:27
a comprehensive eort effort by people at NIH likely at Fouch direction to again not just cover this up but to smear
00:29:37
scientists they went on the offensive in addition to trying to cover their their
00:29:42
yeah people like J bataria who then got banned censored and banned on social media by the way who is a Stanford
00:29:49
Professor yeah was banned for speaking up chth let's zoom out here and and start thinking strategy and theories of
00:29:56
what's going on here I have my own but I'm curious to hear yours first as we go around the horn here what what's your
00:30:01
take on this I would like to make four points I think that kind of summarize my view of this I think what happened here
00:30:09
needs a really clear accounting because the implications are far greater than I think people realize and I think why
00:30:18
maybe the four of us have have always been tugging on this little thread is because each of us instinctively
00:30:24
understood that so the first is if you just look at the macroeconomic consequences of what Co did and our
00:30:33
reaction we broke the Seal of having absolutely no accountability on massive spending right so there are subsidies
00:30:42
there are Kickbacks there are government programs that now number in the trillions of dollars a year incremental
00:30:47
to what we were going to spend if things were the status quo and the problem is that and freeberg has talked about this
00:30:55
really eloquently in the past it's creating a massive debt issue that us and our children and our
00:30:59
grandchildren would have to deal with if we had responded to this pandemic differently those issues would not have
00:31:06
occurred if we had just kept the economy open because we understood what was going
00:31:12
on we would not have reacted the way that we did and we would not have nearly as much debt as we have and we would not
00:31:18
have made it okay for politicians to spend trillions of dollars that is a direct consequence of our reaction to co
00:31:25
not Co itself the second is we caused billions of people all around the world to take immaturely tested drugs they
00:31:34
were called vaccines we found out that they were modestly effective at best and then some of them were designed in some
00:31:42
ways to manipulate our DNA and we just don't know what the long-term impacts will be we see some small issues of
00:31:49
myocarditis we see other issues of all cause mortality but the point is we just don't know and that would not have
00:31:56
happened had we not rushed to force people to stand in the line and get a jab in order to get back to their normal
00:32:03
life that was a direct consequence not of covid but of a reaction the third is what we're realizing right now is that
00:32:12
we had this power drunk appara and this is similar to the quote that Mike Pompeo made when he took over
00:32:21
the CIA what he found and he said this after when he left was there were people on
00:32:27
the top floor of the CIA building the seventh floor of the Pentagon that fundamentally believed that it wasn't
00:32:34
the Democrats nor the Republicans that ran the country but it was them and I see a similar level of arrogance here
00:32:41
which is this belief that they know better and so what they did was they committed the greatest sin which is
00:32:49
where the cover up is way greater than the crime and they created a setup where all of these things were Amplified
00:32:58
by their Prestige their perceived scientific knowledge but what they were really doing was keeping critical
00:33:05
information to themselves and then trying to cover it up Jason that is so unacceptable when you think of the broad
00:33:11
consequences of what happened and that's what needs to get documented and I do think there needs to be some form of
00:33:17
accountability for that I think it's well said and you know just looking at it I think we are now at the part point
00:33:24
of this conversation and investigation where we can say this is not a bip Parton this is issue and everybody knew
00:33:30
like we had these conversations on this very podcast the public knew something didn't seem right about this and if you
00:33:35
just think about this from first principles of what occurred here just what occurred here freyberg we funded
00:33:44
gain of research to create these super viruses that what I think other people could just as equally call a bioweapon
00:33:52
with the Chinese now we're supposed to be Arch Rivals here we're like these competitors
00:33:58
and then when it came out and it leaked and of course I don't think it was released on purpose when it came out the
00:34:07
people who work for us and we trust with our family safety who funded this in order to save their own reputations to
00:34:15
cover their asses then lied about it and then like as you said sax perfectly they
00:34:21
went on the offensive these people were not elected by anybody that's right these people
00:34:27
work for for us and they failed us this is a crime against humanity of the greatest cause people committed suicide
00:34:36
people died because they had depression our kids lost two years of school tot this generation has lost their education
00:34:45
and now we have burdened them with billions hundreds of billions of dollars in debt from this this is trillions
00:34:52
trillions tens of this is a failure of leadership it is a crime and when people said prosecute foui they were like
00:35:01
you're being hysterical this is ridiculous these people need to be prosecuted if you hid this stuff from a
00:35:08
foiler request you need to go to jail this needs to be accountability here think what they did to society our
00:35:15
children in the future I am infuriated by this imagine what happened in the situation room or the equivalent
00:35:21
wherever the president of the United States all these world leaders were coalescing to try to make decisions in
00:35:28
that period they all looked at this quote unquote expert they pointed at fouchi and said lead us out and so do we
00:35:36
not think that at any point he was thinking how do I do this in a way where I have no fingerprints clearly the
00:35:41
answer is in fact he was leading from a position of how will I not have any fingerprints on this and so do we did we
00:35:48
get the best advice on the margin I think it's pretty fair to say we could not have gotten it because he was too
00:35:54
conflicted he was figuring out how to cover up what happened as opposed to just own it and then help the world get
00:36:01
out of it yeah I mean I talk about like incinerating your entire career and Legacy but putting that aside the
00:36:08
morality of covering this up and you know so then you have to think shath this is why I was like what is the
00:36:14
strategy what goes through somebody's mind when they decide to do a cover up this level is it just fear of getting
00:36:20
caught and their lives being in their mind ruined and they're going to do this incredible cover up I actually think
00:36:27
that they thought this would become a globally destabilizing moment between the United States and China and that
00:36:35
there could be revolutions now I know that this is now sounding really conspiracy theory but if you're sitting
00:36:40
there and you're like what if the public finds out we created this and their grandparents died from it and their kids
00:36:47
didn't go to school because of it there would be riots in the street but if enough time passes maybe there's not
00:36:52
riots in the street well you know what this is something that is just so abhorent that I mean people need to
00:36:59
really be held accountable freeberg your thoughts what would you guys do if you're sitting in a policy Maker's seat
00:37:05
today and you're being offered by scientists this ability to go and figure out what the next big virus will be and
00:37:13
start to make plans for getting in front of it by understanding the biology of these viruses by seeing where they're
00:37:18
going to evolve to and by trying to get in front of the next pandemic so that we
00:37:22
can protect the population do you guys support that sort of research and what are the questions you ask so let's you
00:37:29
know rewind 15 years pretend fouchi doesn't get to make those decisions you guys are the policy makers and folks say
00:37:35
SARS just happened we want to do this research we want to figure out how get what do you do and how do you how do you
00:37:40
answer that there's a really simple there's a really simple question if anybody who's watched any kind of
00:37:45
science fiction or knows the history of this kind of research which is don't do this in a population Center and what how
00:37:51
will you prevent it from breaking out like literally that's job one if you're going to even if you're not going to
00:37:59
like literally every science fiction film has this it's like put it on an island and there's an island off Long
00:38:04
Island where they keep these things I forgot the name of it is Plum Island or something well look it up yeah and by
00:38:10
the way there there are internal NIH emails that suggest that Co leaked from a level two facility they call it BSL 2
00:38:19
which does not operate with the top level biohazard Safeguard so they knew the Wuhan lab was not at the level of
00:38:25
safeguards that it should have been but look I would go deeper and say that why would you do this kind of research at
00:38:32
all I mean you are deliberately manipulating viruses in order to make them transmissible in humans this was a
00:38:38
bat virus that was not transmissible to humans it was bioengineer they add the fur and cleavage site to allow it to
00:38:46
gain access to human cells yeah so sax I am going to push back because that is not conclusively true what you're saying
00:38:53
is something that some people have claimed but there are other scientists including papers published recently in
00:38:58
the lanet and other like pretty reputable like medical journals and research journals that indicate that the
00:39:04
evolution scene in the fear and cleavage site can be traced back to an evolutionary origin not necessarily to a
00:39:10
human engineered origin so I want to just make that clear that that is a possibility I'm not dismissing it but
00:39:15
I'm not supporting the other side I'm saying we have work to do to figure this out just to be clear it's a possibility
00:39:20
that's so remote I mean look I I heard Professor Jeffrey saaks talking about this in a recent interview and he went
00:39:26
through the whole history he said there's like 200 of these Corona viruses in this like class or category and
00:39:33
there's not one fear and cage site among any of them so can you say that there's
00:39:37
not a one chance of it happening question very very very low probability event let me punch up your
00:39:45
question freeberg because if you if your question is what should you do I want to
00:39:49
ask you guys what do you do so like forget about oh there's bad guys Fouch is a bad guy like what do you do to
00:39:53
protect the world against the next pandemic number one you don't do this type of gain of function research number
00:39:59
two if you are going to do it you don't do it at a level two facility like the Wuhan lab number three when the virus
00:40:07
leaks from the lab you don't basically lie about and conduct a cover campaign that smears reputation of honest
00:40:14
scientists number four when you're hauled into the Oval Office in response to this once in a century pandemic you
00:40:22
don't pretend like you're America's doctor and you have all the answers when in fact you're the guy who created this
00:40:28
problem you own it there's an idea you own it and you know what like the question really in embedded in in your
00:40:36
question freeberg I think is Is Gain Is there any argument to doing gain of function if so how and then is there any
00:40:43
reason to research you know the bat dung or whatever material they get it from you know from those caves and take it
00:40:49
out of the caves I could see the lad Cham off of like hey this existed nature you study it on an island somewhere far
00:40:56
away from everybody with massive controls the gain of function seems like it literally feels like the speech from
00:41:03
Jurassic Park like I think it's why would listen Park took place on an island for a reason there were many
00:41:09
scientists who were opposed to gain function research they thought it was unduly risky and didn't have offsetting
00:41:14
benefits and that is exactly why Obama banned it very good decision to me this whole idea that we need to to amplify
00:41:24
these viruses in order to find out what would happen if this happened naturally is insane you didn't have this dep until
00:41:31
you created it yes this is nutty this is nut it's nuts go ahead there are examples we know I'll just point to two
00:41:39
let's just say the attempted overthrow of the Ukrainian government in 2014 you can go back to Iran Contra as
00:41:47
yet another example and you can add gain of function research now which is again
00:41:52
I'll just go back to when there are these lifelong bureaucrats that believe they're above the law that there's this
00:41:59
Sensation that they can pull the levers of power silently behind the scenes because they know better and then what
00:42:07
they're doing as you guys said is they are controverting the desires of the people so whether you like President
00:42:15
Obama or not he's duly elected by the people and when he says this isn't allowed it shouldn't be allowed and when
00:42:22
you instantiate chaos and wars and all of this other stuff overthrows in all of these other places that then create all
00:42:30
these longtail effects they're not done with really America support they're done by a small
00:42:36
group of people who think they know better and I think that we've created that kind of a problem that needs to get
00:42:42
fixed and so I think that there this has to be an example where you can make them
00:42:48
an example because otherwise it will keep happening and there are other parts of the American bureaucracy where people
00:42:55
are in charge of very critical and important decisions and I suspect 99% of them are good Earnest honest people
00:43:03
doing the right thing for America but it's just the law of large numbers there will be one or two and all
00:43:09
it takes is one or two who get drunk with that power and so unless that there's a check and balance on that
00:43:15
Dynamic we'll have more issues of this and as the world gets more sophisticated and we rely more on Experts I hate to
00:43:24
say this guys but you have to be more skeptical of experts as much as you think an expert is an
00:43:29
expert you have to fight the tendency of saying I'm going to abdicate all of my intellect onto you and you decide yeah I
00:43:37
think you have to find a way of just gut checking and Sack said this critical thing if I was the president of the
00:43:43
United States in a pandemic I didn't need the co to teach me this example but if I'm trying to solve a very technical
00:43:51
and hard engineering problem what I always do is I bring a cross-section of people in a room
00:43:57
typically some of them have to have disagreeing opinions and I make them intellectually fight it out and my job
00:44:04
is to observe and in that I apply my judgment I'm not nearly as smart as them I'm not nearly technically as trained as
00:44:11
them but that is a process that works and I'm just questioning it couldn't have happened here because as sack said
00:44:17
if you basically bury the reputations of the folks that are pushing back you could never bring them inside the room
00:44:23
in the oval and have a conversation with them and say hey Jay but Taria give us the red team version of what you think
00:44:30
is happening yeah and that Steel Man the opposite side let me build on a point Jam made which is I think we have to ask
00:44:39
the question what type of government do we really have you know we call ourselves a democracy but are you a
00:44:45
democracy when the elected leaders come and go and the really powerful bureaucrats running the the government
00:44:51
running these agencies stay for decades and decades and if the president disagrees with their policy they can
00:44:57
just wait them out fouchy wanted to do gain of function research maybe by the way at the beest of DOD we don't know
00:45:04
could have been a bio weapon or biod defense program there's a lot more to this that we don't even know about yet
00:45:10
in any event it's clear he was passionately committed to funding gain of function research he just waited for
00:45:16
his opportunity and implemented his will Victoria newand in the state department
00:45:21
passionately committed to basically bringing Ukraine into NATO and using that to essentially provoke a regime
00:45:29
change operation in Russia again she just had to wait for her opportunity to basically keep pushing these policies
00:45:36
for decades these are the people who are really running the American government how would you change it we have to turn
00:45:42
these things over these organizations or get rid of them we talk about term limits for politicians maybe we actually
00:45:46
need term limits for the administrative appara that runs all these critical organizations right it's called The Deep
00:45:52
state right you ever hear the expression deep State sounds conspiratorial it's not it's just the permanent bureaucracy
00:45:58
we elect a president but H but how many people does the president actually appoint a couple hundred you know
00:46:05
99.9% of the people running the government are there permanently well and then I'll just say here I want to
00:46:11
give a shout out to the journalist Katherine Ian and Katherine Ian and Emily cop I know that people also have
00:46:18
no faith in journalists these are two journalists I think you could have tremendous faith in who are going to win
00:46:22
piters because they've been doggedly pursuing this and you have to wonder why this is not the top story on the news
00:46:29
networks and why this isn't the head of you know the New York Times or the The Washington Post like there needs to be
00:46:34
much more coverage of what's going on here I don't understand why Trump takes every headline yeah I
00:46:41
don't think it has anything to do with Trump I think it's got everything to do with the fact that the New York Times
00:46:44
was covering for fouchy fouchy has been there Fouch has been there for decades he is a major source of the New York
00:46:51
Times just like he was a major funer of Grant programs right so there's a lot of
00:46:56
people who have developed a dependency on fouchy I mean every for information you think access journalism is what's
00:47:02
going on here he gave them access there's no question the New York Times was covering for this the New York Times
00:47:08
definitely promoted the idea that anyone pushing the lab leak theory was somehow
00:47:13
conspiracy theorist or a nut and you have to lay on top of all this sacks it's a political environment they were
00:47:19
pushing that whole crazy wet Market Theory theet Market pangin the pangin remember the
00:47:25
penglin we needed John Stewart to dismantle the pangalan theory you know in relation to that these wet markets
00:47:32
have spread massive viruses and and you know all kinds of things and they do need to be there was like a un report on
00:47:41
like hey we have to upgrade markets I it was a great cover story I think it was a logical Theory to
00:47:47
pursue to the end point of eliminating it because they around Wuhan there are a lot of these wet markets it is
00:47:54
completely conceivable that a person who was in that lab went to a wet market and
00:47:59
it spread via the wet Market this is why we need a full investigation folks because all these theories could come
00:48:04
together and there are more cards to turn over which one of you alluded to like who knows what the the turn and the
00:48:10
river are going to be here like what did China know what did our government and China know maybe they are making
00:48:16
bioweapons maybe they're doing even worse stuff that we don't know about maybe there's all kinds of Rogue
00:48:22
programs that are being that are occurring here that's why we need to keep digging and digging the American
00:48:26
public must hold these people accountable and they need to tell us who else was involved because if Fouch is
00:48:34
involved and this guy's involved there's other people I want to hear from everybody there's many crazy parts of
00:48:39
this but I think maybe the craziest part of the whole thing is that when the pandemic happens and the elected
00:48:45
government of the United States the president needs to pull in the resources to manage a policy response who do they
00:48:51
pull in fouchy the guy who created the problem it's kind of like when they have newand be Chief Diplomat in the state
00:48:58
department and she's fed the coup in Kev in 2014 it's again these these bureaucrats
00:49:04
are doing the exact opposite of what they're supposed to be doing they're own and being honest yes but I think to
00:49:11
answer your question what do we do about it I think we just got to clean out the
00:49:14
Stables here yeah I think we just got to disband some of these government departments why do we have so many this
00:49:19
whole alphabet soup of three-letter agencies I think V Grandma Swami had the right idea let's just get rid of a bunch
00:49:25
of these things start budget zero based budget the whole government start over Y
00:49:29
and just go right through each one like if and and you know what it should be a bipartisan issue but there's so much
00:49:34
money involved this is one of the challenges in a capitalist system is there's so much money there's so much
00:49:38
Griff to go around that when something like this happens and there's an opportunity to I don't know make a
00:49:44
vaccine and and you know put a couple of billion dollars into this light speeded
00:49:49
thing which was a great idea seemingly everybody lines up okay yeah sure we'll get involved we'll take some
00:49:54
of that money yeah buy a billion shots from us president Trump was really on to this because he's the one that really
00:49:59
coined the term the Deep State and went after it and if you think about the other side right the people that are
00:50:05
there it must be very discomforting to hear because a lot of those people are folks that worked hard tried to go to
00:50:12
good schools get educated and join an infrastructure to move a country forward because they believe in the country and
00:50:19
the values s noble noble mission right but over long periods of time most people come and go and then there's a
00:50:27
small cohort of folks that sort of end up aify and running the top parts of this permanent bureaucracy and I think
00:50:35
saaks is right they start to observe just the simple principle that all these folks come and go yet I'm still around
00:50:42
president comes president goes under secretary comes under secretary goes the Secretary of this comes then they they
00:50:49
go and so they start to believe that they're really in charge and that's where the Deep State idea comes from at
00:50:56
least we're in a democracy where these hearings are occurring I just want to give kudos to in addition to those two
00:51:03
journalists to the people on this subcommittee who are doing it in a bipartisan way and they will be and
00:51:09
they're being relentless I think that's the honorable thing to do I encourage them and those investigative journalists
00:51:14
to be relentless and kud Paul too remember when heile encourage people were like this
00:51:21
guy's a loon no R to your point about what does this mean for our democracy I want bring up the semaphor article where
00:51:28
they pulled young people and young voters they despair over us politics they describe the United States as a
00:51:35
dying Empire led by bad people I mean now after what we've leared about Co and I would argue also the whole background
00:51:43
to war is this right exactly their intuition is their intuition is right yeah from the mouths of babes I mean bad
00:51:51
is I mean if they covered this up in the way it's looking like I would call this
00:51:56
Behavior I'd call it evil because it was premeditated and then look the point is
00:52:00
we're supposed to have this check and balance from the media but when the media is complicit because they like to
00:52:05
be in those Halls of power that's where that's where these feelings come from I think the latest stat that I saw is I
00:52:11
think more than 52% of Americans now believe that the mainstream media is untrustworthy and that's a really
00:52:18
terrible place to be which means you're basically where do you get truth you're consuming something that's just
00:52:23
fundamentally not true I mean burn it down I mean that that's the conclusion any logical person would come to is just
00:52:28
burn it down this makes no sense that they would try and cover this up the right thing for fou to do is say Hey
00:52:33
listen we didn't do gain of function you know under Obama we did do it here it's
00:52:40
obviously been a mistake we need to never do it again and here's the road map to make sure that we protect people
00:52:45
from the next one thank God this one didn't kill children the way it's killing old people and uh by the way
00:52:50
this is going to crack open I encourage you all to be vocal about this and to watch on Monday because Dr fouchi is
00:52:56
scheduled to appear in a hearing for the same sub commmittee and that is going to
00:53:00
be explosive live streamed on YouTube we'll put the link in the show notes since we're in the don't trust anybody
00:53:07
and have your own sovereignty and we're in libertarian moment let's go to our crypto correspondent it's crypto corner
00:53:14
with shamama so it's my it's part of my production company I'm now doing crypto corner with cha that would be next
00:53:22
week's cold open I thought it would be good to talk about crypto for a couple of reasons
00:53:28
one is because we just had the having at the end of April when that happen the having is where just for folks that
00:53:35
don't know the way that Bitcoins are created is by solving these complex mathematical algorithms that take a lot
00:53:40
of time and energy and and money and when you solve it you get rewarded with some number of Bitcoin and
00:53:47
roughly every four years that reward gets cut in half it's called a having and this week I saw somebody who
00:53:58
reminded me all of this and I just want to give this guy a proper shout out so his name is Wes kasaris and Wes in
00:54:04
Silicon Valley I would say really was Agent Zero of Bitcoin he was the one in 2010 that introduced it to me I remember
00:54:12
he reminded me of the story actually we were at orens hummus and he's like he's Argentinian he's a great so I'm gonna
00:54:18
try to copy he's like you not to buy the beatcoin so I heard the story I fell in
00:54:23
love with it I remember I called my family office I'm like buy me a million these things and he was like or a
00:54:27
million dollars worth and he was like are you crazy and I was like no this just a little appetizer we'll get to the
00:54:34
main main course anyways he has done a phenomenal job of understanding and prosti
00:54:40
Bitcoin and I want to thank him because he really put me onto this but he mentioned something to me when I saw him
00:54:46
a couple days ago which is you should really look at the pattern of Bitcoin after a having and so I was really
00:54:54
curious and so I had a guy in my team Quinton put this together so Nick let me just let's go to the first page so why
00:55:01
is this interesting so here's a little bitcoin price analysis for you guys so there's been a couple of having cycles
00:55:07
that have happened and I asked him to go back and look at the price performance one month after a having three months 6
00:55:15
months 9 months 12 months and 18 months after a having and what you notice is that there are these moments initially
00:55:25
where essentially when you go through a Bitcoin having people are sort of reassessing what's happening and they're
00:55:32
trying to figure it out that's sort of what I would says happens in the first month and roughly what also happens in
00:55:37
the first three months but then within 6 months to a year and 18 months of these things there
00:55:43
are these crazy price appreciation cycles that happen so that's what this page shows which is you know 18 months
00:55:52
after the first having the Bitcoin price returned 45x after the second having it returned
00:56:00
almost 28x and after this third having it returned almost an 8ex which is really incredible returns in such a
00:56:09
short period of time if you go to the next page and so if you if you graph that this is what it starts to show
00:56:14
which is what is this price performance after each of these having Cycles now why is that interesting well it's
00:56:19
interesting because on top of this having which theoretically if history is a guide we should see some price
00:56:30
appreciation obviously the other thing that's happened is we've commercialized Bitcoin and we talked about this sort of
00:56:35
as my big prediction for 2024 which is these ETFs are really going to allow Bitcoin to cross the
00:56:41
chasm and have its sort of Central Key moment right and so if you apply the averages and again these are just
00:56:48
averages they're by no means predictions okay so I just want to qualify that these are just this is not Financial
00:56:53
advice this not Financial advice these are just guesses we took these and we applied it to the
00:56:59
price of Bitcoin and if you go to the next page you start to see what could happen if you just take the average of
00:57:06
the last few Cycles so because the first cycle was so extreme and you start to oh
00:57:11
so you're just doing cycle two and three here to be clear just the averages of cycle two and three and what you start
00:57:16
to see is some really meaningful appreciation and when I talked to Wes about this how he explained it which I
00:57:25
which makes a lot of sense to me is there are a lot of countries that will never look at
00:57:31
Bitcoin credibly even if they support it the US may be one of those but there's an increasing body of countries that
00:57:37
will become dual currency and they will look at their local currency and then they will look
00:57:43
at Bitcoin and they will say both of these two things are needed one when you're transacting on a daily basis for
00:57:49
random goods and services and two when you need to buy a permanent asset that needs to have residual value you'll use
00:57:56
something like BTC and I think that's a very powerful concept and if you look at
00:58:02
what this price chart could indicate is that if this thing starts to get to these levels of appreciation it
00:58:10
is going to completely replace gold and start to become something that has transactional
00:58:17
utility for hard assets and I think if you marry that with this worry that some folks have about dollar
00:58:23
debasement you start to see some really interesting opportun so I just thought that this was a interesting thing that
00:58:30
he that he here's our disclaimer interesting thing that he put me on I thought I'd share that with you I'll
00:58:34
publish this on Twitter but that's your crypto corner for the year folks I think
00:58:38
it's really interesting how the crypto Community is getting organized into a basically a Lobby to advocate for its
00:58:46
interest because theyve the biggest Lobby in America did you know that yeah they've been so targeted over the last
00:58:50
few years because gendler and Warren have been on a crusade to BAS ly make crypto illegal
00:58:57
or drive it offshore well every action has a equal and opposite reaction and now the crypto people have basically had
00:59:04
a political Awakening and realized they have to get involved in the political system yeah just as a matter of Defense
00:59:10
self-defense shout outf a Pioneer well not like that I mean that guy I mean he was dropping money on
00:59:18
everybody yeah you hear this did you hear this rumor that he was doing that to basically push for regulatory capture
00:59:24
remember yeah did you guys hear this rumor did you guys hear this rumor thatf was going to
00:59:31
put a billion dollars into the election and convinced Tom Brady to run as a Republican and give no give the billion
00:59:37
to Trump oh sorry give the billion to Trump he was gonna give Trump a billion to not run okay and then get Tom Brady
00:59:44
to run I mean this person had delusions of grounder he thought he was a Jedi Knight and he's like literally in joba's
00:59:50
Palace right now I don't know what this I mean what a lunatic he was I mean talk
00:59:54
about delusions of grandeur sacks this guy thought he would just drop a billion dollars and convince somebody not to run
01:00:00
for government I think we're gonna I think we're going to get a regulatory you know back to the young people we
01:00:05
talked about in the previous story I think the reason they're attracted to crypto is because it doesn't have
01:00:11
government control and since if you don't trust the government and you see the government over and over and over
01:00:16
again cover things up or the grift or make decisions that are not in your generation's best interest why wouldn't
01:00:22
you opt out of their financial system and you know what there's a lot of them and they have they're getting organized
01:00:27
to your point ax I think we're going to have a crypto framework and it's worth probably five points in this election
01:00:35
what do you think sax how many points is being the pro crypto candidate worth in
01:00:39
this election one two three points of votes Four Points it's got to be if young people show up it'll be
01:00:46
it'll be it could be 500 basis points I mean young people do not show up to vote
01:00:50
because there isn't an issue that they care about correct but there's 50 million Americans that own crypto 505 Z
01:00:57
okay so if 10% of them are like let's say that's their single issue that's 5 million votes no no no there's a there
01:01:04
is a plausible case where 40 million of those folks show up because you're talking about a structural part of their
01:01:10
wealth creation right so for example like you know Biden President Biden talked about giving people a head start
01:01:16
by eliminating their debt that's a narrow issue and the reason it's a narrow issue there's just as many people
01:01:21
that don't have debt and just as many people that paid off their debt and it creates a lot ofes have knots right and
01:01:28
there's all these rules around who will get the debt relief Etc you end up touching four or five million people
01:01:35
maximum but if there are 50 million people who have now decided to have at least a hedge
01:01:41
Against The Establishment and the traditional Financial system and you are threatening to take
01:01:48
that wealth away yeah I could see how 80% of those folks show up to The Ballot Box and say all right which one of you
01:01:54
will just leave me alone and if the answer is President Trump then they're all going to vote for president Trump I
01:01:59
think this is like such a great issue for uh political candidates to embrace and it's just such a simple framework
01:02:05
I've said it a dozen times create a sophisticated investor test let a thousand flowers bloom people can make
01:02:12
whatever crypto projects they want but to buy it you just have to take a simple test like a driver's license so that you
01:02:19
don't risk your entire net worth or whatever if you do you're an informed buyer of crypto just make a
01:02:24
sophisticated investor test let's move on chamath just since we're in crypto Corner before we leave crypto Corner
01:02:29
when is my ape going to be worth money again when will my ape go back up never okay so my ap's not coming back okay so
01:02:36
I guess I shouldn't have done that all right wait how how's uh sax coin doing we had sax coin and we had um
01:02:44
my coin went crazy but that was a pump and dub scheme that we had nothing to do with I will never sell you a coin until
01:02:51
I do I just want to let everybody know that if you get a DM from me I am not selling J coin until you hear it first I
01:02:59
would literally do an Angel Investing coin immediately if there was a framework for it it would be the
01:03:05
greatest idea ever to have like a jco and I could just like put it into startups and then people could buy and
01:03:09
sell it and be like this ongoing Evergreen Venture where's my J da I love Dows and I love I love the
01:03:17
idea of of an Angel Investing coin but man a startup coin would be brilliant yeah the Jason coin is basically at zero
01:03:24
it man it it was worth the the sax coin is down to8 Grand to clear I didn't have
01:03:30
anything to do with sax coin either but I was more amused by it than anything else yeah well my friend decided to tell
01:03:35
everybody he was gonna buy some and then straight to the Moon pretty funny h i it's hilarious I
01:03:44
have some uh I've only we've only bought crypto twice we have some Doge uh which
01:03:50
I bought during like the our our Doge phase a couple years ago and then uh my wife precedently bought Bitcoin you know
01:03:59
at a very low price when everybody was talking about it around Thanksgiving and uh my my hard Bitcoin went phenomenal
01:04:06
and my doge is at break even now so I've spent two years just on the pendulum but
01:04:12
who knows maybe Doge will become a thing again I love Doge all right we have a bell weather of sorts here Salesforce
01:04:18
dropped more than 20% after reporting earnings we should talk about the state of SAS software as a service if you're
01:04:24
not in the industry Salesforce had its worst day in the markets in nearly 20 years on Thursday and that's when we
01:04:31
tape this they lost about $40 billion in market cap or as we say in the industry
01:04:35
to figmas on Wednesday Salesforce missed q1 Revenue estimates for the first time
01:04:39
since 2006 Revenue was up 9.1 billion 11% year-over year but about 40 million below Wall Street expectations so
01:04:47
they're doing great but Wall Street is concerned for a reason we'll get into what that is net income was 1.5 billion
01:04:55
7X year over year because they've been doing a lot of cuts over there free cash flow 6 billion up 43% profits are up
01:05:02
huge because if you remember those activist investors came in and uh had Benny off really rank the structure of
01:05:08
the business uh and the footprint of the business but guidance for Q2 down Salesforce projecting 7% growth
01:05:16
relatively low for them freeberg you and I were talking about this like what are
01:05:20
your thoughts here on what's happening in the markets and then we we had the side discussion which
01:05:27
we didn't dock it but I think it's worth bringing up here in dovetailing which is
01:05:31
it does seem like the consumer which this is an Enterprise St but the economy is cooling off consumers I think are
01:05:38
running out of money the YOLO economy is finally I think at its end what does this say to you freeberg well I think
01:05:47
the key question to your point is there a macroeconomic reason for a Slowdown in
01:05:52
their business they're forecasting for this next fiscal year Revenue growth of only 8 to
01:05:59
%. and for this next quarter it's basically a flat Revenue quarter relative to the Past quarter so for this
01:06:06
fiscal year 38 billion of Topline Revenue 9 billion of operating cash flow and with the market cap coming down by
01:06:14
20% the Stock's at a $200 billion valuation so it's trading at you know call it roughly 20 times their operating
01:06:21
cash flow forecast with sub 10% Revenue growth and that's basically where treasuries trade right because treasury
01:06:27
yields for 30-year treasury you can get 4.7% today yeah I was about to say almost five you know that's about 20x
01:06:34
right so that's about where the multiple is on this Salesforce stock so I think it really begs the question on you know
01:06:40
is there a macroeconomic force where the Enterprise is spending less because of you know a revenue slowdown in the
01:06:47
economy which we saw in the latest GDP report that's number one that could be driving this and will affect ultimately
01:06:53
the multiple for all these Enterprise SAS companies or number two is there a shifting
01:06:57
underway in the SAS business model that the premium that SAS companies were able
01:07:02
to charge in the pricing model on a per se basis and the dollars that they're able to charge per employee or per user
01:07:08
um is so significant relative to what that Enterprise can build themselves now with the commoditization available to
01:07:17
them under this new era of AI and the ability to build tools internally or the ability for competitors to emerge with
01:07:24
significantly underpriced alternative Alives because they can use generative AI to make software that can
01:07:29
compete and then there's this other question because Salesforce has been leaning in heavily on the generative AI
01:07:35
capabilities that they're offering their customers and it seems like the question
01:07:40
is are Enterprises waiting to see the value of that generative AI service capability is it worth paying for today
01:07:47
should I wait and see or is it actually indicating that there's a big commoditization and generative AI
01:07:51
underway okay meaning why do I have to pay Salesforce a bunch of money when I can use some open source third party
01:07:57
tool or some more freely available tool so chamath freberg presented two options
01:08:01
here one of them macroeconomic slowdown the other one hey software you know belt
01:08:06
tightening is happening inside the Enterprise and it's cheaper to make so maybe we have a a deflationary kind of
01:08:12
situation inside companies I I guess this is adjacent that last part of his theory uh is adjacent to the 8090
01:08:19
Mission you're on with your new startup and maybe this is this an or or an end in your mind shath is it both these
01:08:25
things but sorry before you answer the third point I made was that generative AI might yes and the third point it may
01:08:31
not be a product line it may not be enough to charge for given all the open source tools yes and there's a big
01:08:35
question mark about the AI new software will people pay for it so jamat take those three what are your thought I
01:08:41
think that if you look at what happened before we had a cycle where very large monolithic
01:08:50
software was replaced by these SAS vendors and Salesforce LED that charge and they they led the in many ways the
01:08:57
definition of the cloud so that was amazing that was this one big cycle and before that that monolithic
01:09:04
those monolithic software vendors were replacing like main frames and very archaic stuff this is sort of this third
01:09:12
disruptive cycle we're going to go through a process of ripping and replacing these Legacy products and so
01:09:20
gen is just a an enablement layer that allows you to deliver functionality to people and I think what you're going to
01:09:28
find is that it allows you to deliver that functionality at much much cheaper to your point that's the whole point of
01:09:33
890 we you know we always joke is Salesforce going to get 8090 yeah because you can deliver 80% of the
01:09:40
features at a 90% discount pretty easily today and what you can't deliver today will get much much easier in a year and
01:09:47
two years and three years for sure in 10 years so I think what the market is voting with their dollars is that these
01:09:57
large lumpy monolithic software companies that need big 50100 million customers they're not going to find them
01:10:07
soon because those customers will realize that you could get you know what freeberg said what you need for 10
01:10:12
million or 5 million or 1 million or 500,000 and in some cases free and so the cost structure of your organization
01:10:21
makes no sense and so you're going to have to go through this very complicated cycle of recycling you know the business
01:10:28
model which unfortunately will mean tons of layoffs and that's not a today thing
01:10:32
but over these next five and 10 years that's probably what's going to happen and it doesn't mean Salesforce is a Bad
01:10:38
Company it's just that it is on the wrong side of the life cycle and the odds are overwhelmingly such that a
01:10:46
bunch of small companies will flood this opportunity and provides cheaper smaller
01:10:52
more flexible capabilities saxs obviously you made bones in the SAS business over the last two decades at
01:10:58
least what are your thoughts here on the challenges I just interviewed Owen mccab
01:11:04
from intercom and he says he thinks the seat model is going to change and obviously if there's less people at
01:11:09
companies there's less seats and that may be a headwin that you just can't win against so maybe a consumption model has
01:11:15
to happen or a different pricing model but what are your thoughts on what's happening at Salesforce and then open
01:11:21
the aperture there and tell us what you think's going to happen in terms of how Corporation
01:11:26
either decide to make that you know build or buy decision well I think it's pretty
01:11:32
amazing that Salesforce lost something like 40 billion of market cap because of a revenue Miss of 40 million you know
01:11:39
it's amazing how these relatively small in percentage terms misses in Revenue earnings Drive such huge changes in in
01:11:48
market cap that's quite a ripple isn't it yeah I mean look my view is that I don't have a strong View about the stock
01:11:56
but my sense is it probably a buying opportunity I mean I think Salesforce is still a great company Mark benof is a
01:12:01
great CEO he's always positioned the company to chase after whatever the current thing is so obviously he was one
01:12:10
of the first to realized that software was headed to the cloud evangelized for the cloud then when the social
01:12:19
networking Revolution happened he launched chatter which was a competitor to to my product gamer back then but he
01:12:25
was ahead of the curve on on social in the Enterprise then it was big data and they launched Einstein now they've got
01:12:31
Ai and they're going to be doing a bunch of different things there so my guess is
01:12:36
he's going to figure out how to take advantage of this this AI trend for the company they're not going to miss it
01:12:42
they're not going to get caught totally flat-footed so you look I don't have a a
01:12:47
super strong point of view on it as an investment but open the aperture there with the
01:12:56
pricing and how many people will work at these companies and then if the PED model is the model and then people are
01:13:01
going to have less humans working at companies and do more with less how what does that mean for SAS RIT large I'm
01:13:07
honestly not worried about the per model I mean the point of a pricing plan should be to
01:13:14
align Revenue expansion with Roi meaning the more value that a customer gets from
01:13:20
your product the more they're willing to pay and you just need some proxy for measuring that that seats are a good
01:13:27
proxy it's a good way to measure how much value the customer is getting out of your product because the more seats
01:13:31
they're buying the more value they must be getting yes you could do it some other way you could basically
01:13:37
meter data usage you could meter API usage sure those models will work for other kinds of companies but I don't
01:13:45
think there's going to be a huge disruption to the seat model is my sense look I think the bigger issue here
01:13:52
is that their forecast was soft right they are forecasting what sub 10% Revenue growth they're going to and this
01:14:00
is why the stock got punished and I'm seeing that a bunch of SAS companies are kind of hurting today now in the wake of
01:14:07
this they're down like 5% not 20 but so I wonder if what the market is wondering
01:14:14
is whether there's a more General slowdown that we're on the precipice of I don't think that that explains 40 20%
01:14:21
drop in a day I think typically these public Market investors internalize a bunch of fears and they don't execute on
01:14:31
those fears and then when given an opportunity they just barf it all out because it's like now it's acceptable
01:14:37
and so to your point David like it was such like a an insignificant Revenue Miss so as to not even be important
01:14:44
quite honestly but the reason it's down 20% is I think folks have internalized a
01:14:48
different set of risks and then they found an escape hatch where they have plausible deniability for selling that's
01:14:54
just what a lot of Public Market investors too I don't think it's a coincidence that we just had the GDP
01:14:59
forecast revised down for the latest quarter what was it it's down to like 1.4% one something yeah yeah we talked
01:15:06
about this last week because it's this number is fake number the economy is looking pretty soft right now which is I
01:15:13
guess a good jumping off point uh which is do what do we think is happening here
01:15:18
with the economy and then interest rates because the whole goal here was to get us under you know get us close to 2% get
01:15:24
rid of the three handle at least in terms of Interest going up and maybe get the consumers to not be spending so much
01:15:32
money which is crazy to think about or maybe get more people laid off and have the unemployment not so low remember
01:15:37
when everyone was talking about soft Landing yeah the reason why they were having that conversation is because the
01:15:42
FED jacked up interest rates really suddenly from roughly zero to five five and a half percent and it worked that
01:15:48
has an impact on people's consumption because debt is much more expensive so again it's wor buy a house harder to buy
01:15:56
a car anything you need to finance gets much harder it took a long time for this
01:16:00
to work its way through the economy but I think we're finally seeing it now I think we're I think that's exactly right
01:16:05
I think we're here when you see that three handle like does it go down you know what's very interesting about the
01:16:09
2% Target I went down the rabbit hole to try to figure out that 2% Target like I
01:16:14
was like who came up with 2% as a number like why isn't it three or 2.5 or 1.5 or
01:16:18
one it's a guy in New Zealand who has you know came up with what he thought was a good Target 2% the world adopted
01:16:23
it so going back to our conversation about experts yeah and he just freely admits it he's just like yeah I just
01:16:30
thought 3% seemed like the right number it wasn't too high wasn't too low and it's kind of healthy to have things go
01:16:35
up in price because that means the economy is growing it's it's just a random Target 2% it was his gut
01:16:41
incredible incredible right incredible yeah I mean if you look at this we are at what is it
01:16:48
3.6% annualized CPI inflation and 1 .3% annualized GDP growth and a 4.7% 30-year treasury yield
01:17:01
this is I don't know what else is more definitional of stagflation the economy is not growing prices are going up and
01:17:07
the cost of borrow has gone through the roof yeah some got to give and then also
01:17:12
if they keep raising taxes well it's like their plans are then affluent people are going to be trying to their
01:17:19
assets and who's they I'm just thinking like a politician like if a politician were to raise
01:17:26
dramtically I'm anybody I don't want I don't want you to have Biden derangement syndrome here Saks okay Trier it I don't
01:17:33
think Trump's gonna raise taxes but Biden will he has the trifecta absolutely absolutely that's why I'll
01:17:38
see you Thursday night with my $50,000 check I can't wait to be there yeah it's gonna easily be paid for by my tax cut
01:17:45
just to jump back for a second on the sales force point so you know Salesforce faces these challenges but it's still
01:17:51
led by Mark Benny off absolutely that dude's tremendous and if you look at the performance of the average public
01:17:58
company regardless of the sector that that business operates in that is run by a hired CEO versus run by a Founder CEO
01:18:06
yeah the founder public companies that have that have gone public achieved A10 billion market cap and are still founder
01:18:14
run as the CEO from there outperform nearly any index you look at okay and this is I think like a really key point
01:18:23
you could probably put together I think some people have done this put together a Founder portfolio but I wouldn't count
01:18:28
out Benny off just because of some of the stuff that we talked about Founders Founders Founders can and will maneuver
01:18:37
their way to success that is the hunger of the Entre let our uh let's do our draft the one Founders you should not
01:18:44
bet against which founder would you least want to short chath your first in the draft who do you got who would you
01:18:51
not want to bet against worst person to bet against sorry what do you mean like Founders any
01:18:58
entrepreneur in history we already know what happened when people try to short Elon they got incinerated barbecue sauce
01:19:04
okay you got you picked Elon in the draft then that's number one jamat who you got yeah that's easy I would pick
01:19:09
him too okay but who got pick somebody out that's why it's a draft he already took El you got take the next person it
01:19:14
could be anybody doesn't have to be alive doesn't have to be in position right now who would I sorry what's what found
01:19:22
you least likely to Short an entrepreneur you least want to shorts hold on now freeberg you get to
01:19:31
go in the draft what do you got I I I don't know the I mean all these founds I don't know how to pick one I mean what
01:19:35
are you ask go with uh I'm gonna go with uh I'm gonna go with Bill Gates what was no I said it could be any time
01:19:46
period of time yeah now that you know the stock performance what are you talking about I just think even in the
01:19:51
next com do you're you're going to go out in a limb you're going to go out a limb and say
01:20:00
that when Bill Gates was doing his Legendary Run I wouldn't have shorted it absolutely I also wouldn't short Michael
01:20:05
Jordan or LeBron James Steph Curry definitely wouldn't get been against him all right everybody breaking news today
01:20:12
in the law being fair I'm sorry today in law fair depending on your view Trump was found guilty on all 34 felony
01:20:19
charges you can choose your own framing here some say it's election interference
01:20:23
uh some people are referring to to this as the hush money porn star case other people are calling it The Deep State
01:20:28
lawfare case the jury deliberated for about a day and a half trial lasted six weeks
01:20:35
included testimony from 20 Witnesses key moment seems to have been Trump's CFO wisberg who's I think in jail right now
01:20:42
for other charges um outlining the terms of the payments to Michael Cohen the uh
01:20:49
disgraced lying attorney who recorded Trump's conversations and that's I think all I can tell you
01:20:58
about this except for maybe the sentencing is uh coming up it's going to be July 11th which is but four days
01:21:05
before the RNC clearly a sad day for America I'm not sure if anybody on the panel has any
01:21:12
opinions on the Trump verdict but let's just randomly start with you David any thoughts on Trump being convicted of 34
01:21:21
felonies in this case well first of all in understanding this case I think it's important to understand that both mer
01:21:28
Garland's doj and former Manhattan da Cyrus fans they looked at this case they looked at these charges and they passed
01:21:35
on bringing this case Alvin Bragg who was a Soros funded da he want a hotly contested Race To Succeed Vance by
01:21:43
pledging to get Trump and that's why he brought this case and in order to bring these charges he had to use a creative
01:21:51
legal formula that turned a misdemeanor charge of falsifying business records a charge that would have been passed the
01:21:57
statute limitations into a felony by claiming it was in the service of a second crime but he never named exactly
01:22:05
what that crime was or proved that it happened and I think it's safe to say that a case like this which is novel and
01:22:11
creative and torturous would never been brought against anybody but Trump now there's about five different grounds for
01:22:19
appeal on this number one the judge is a Biden donor with a daughter who works for Biden number two prejudicial and
01:22:27
relevant evidence was admitted that should have been excluded including stormmy Daniel's testimony number three
01:22:32
Trump was not able to call his expert in election law former head of FEC Bradley
01:22:37
Smith number four the prosecution never named the second crime and then number five the judge let the jury pick from a
01:22:44
range of options for what the second crime might be including tax crimes for which no evidence was presented and
01:22:51
federal election crimes for which the court had no jurisdiction so my guess is that at the end of the day this case is
01:22:57
going to get tossed on appeal but that's probably going to happen after the election after November 5th and
01:23:02
Democrats now have what they wanted they they wanted to get out of this case four
01:23:07
words Donald Trump convicted felon and you're going to be hearing that phrase convicted Fel and repeated ad nauseum
01:23:13
from now until November 5th and I think that's the whole point of this case freeberg your take no I mean it felt
01:23:20
like this was always a win-win trial for Trump if he gets convicted then you know the conversation
01:23:28
that we're hearing now you know this was an unfair conviction how could they do this this is
01:23:33
lawfare and if he doesn't get convicted they try to burn him at the stake how could they try and do that clearly he's
01:23:41
innocent he was made innocent so you know it it it never really struck me as being a smart I'm not a political guy
01:23:48
but the political calculus just seemed off on this entirely it certainly wasn't clear what they were trying to
01:23:53
accomplish either way Trump looks good and I think we saw Tonight reports that his website for making donations
01:24:02
crashed a lot of people started making public statements on Twitter that are not typically Republican donors that
01:24:08
they're donating a lot of money to Donald Trump coming out of this and so it is clearly infuriating a lot of
01:24:13
people that as saak points out you know something that some people are considering to be you know a bookkeeping
01:24:20
or accounting crime has turned into 34 felony convictions it feels Fair it feels like the wrong
01:24:26
decision and it's going to infuriate people because people worry about the quality of the justice system anyone
01:24:31
who's sitting in the middle as an independent or an undecided I think it is much more likely that they are going
01:24:36
to have sympathy for Donald Trump coming out of this not admonishment sh your take I think that if you went into
01:24:43
this looking to confirm your hatred of President Trump you you were the one that was given red
01:24:52
meat and I think that if were undecided or Pro president Trump you probably found more reason to support him for all
01:25:01
the reasons that reeber said the thing that's unique about this specific trial that I found rather interesting was the
01:25:12
diversity of people who just couldn't understand what this trial was about whether it was Bill bar who worked for
01:25:19
him but was not a huge fan of his nor was you know Trump or vice versa right to an Allan
01:25:27
dershwitz to a Cyrus man you had Democrats and Republicans and independents legal Scholars legal
01:25:35
experts some who like President Trump some who did not some who got along with him some who did not some who fought
01:25:41
with him some who did not some who got fired by him some who did not and they were all categorically confused about
01:25:48
what this whole thing was about I'm not legally well versed enough to understand
01:25:53
what it was so as a Layman you then tend to go to this next obvious thing which is you have to
01:26:01
bucket this decision as here are some experts and what they know is better than what I know and we talked about
01:26:09
this earlier on the PO today when it came to fouchy and it turned out to not be so true or you go to this other place
01:26:15
where are there systems of government that can be convoluted and turned in the favor of the majority
01:26:22
who's in power against someone that they feel is a threat and we've talked about
01:26:27
that as well with respect to how some of these governmental institutions have targeted some of our
01:26:32
friends so I think that we're in a very precarious moment where the systems of governments in the
01:26:41
United States are a little bit more fragile than they were the moment before okay if people were wondering what the
01:26:47
case is actually about falsifying business records um this a pretty serious crime in New York City uh
01:26:53
basically when people don't keep correct records uh when they're committing crimes this is taken seriously in New
01:27:00
York because it is the financial capital of the world they've got a long history
01:27:04
whether it's uh you know Bernie made off Enron Etc of uh pursuing these I don't know why this didn't get communicated
01:27:13
well to the public um but there were obviously tons of business records falsified here and they basically
01:27:20
admitted to it Michael Cohen had pleaded guilty to it already and so it really feels like a
01:27:26
misdemeanor and then to understand what happened after that there is a law in New York as saaks correctly pointed out
01:27:34
on top of the falsifying of business records which New York takes deadly seriously and they put this in every
01:27:39
indictment when people do it because they want the accountants lawyers CFOs to behave themselves and not cheat the
01:27:47
public the election interference also taken very seriously in New York there's been tons of cases again typ minor
01:27:55
things but people who do things like try to stuff ballots Etc and so you put those two together if you do uh
01:28:03
falsifying if you falsify business records and you do it as part of a second crime which he did which he was
01:28:09
convicted of then you get these penalties so that is the explanation of the case that was why he was found
01:28:15
guilty it's pretty easy to figure this all out if you don't know all this it's because you didn't take the time to read
01:28:21
anything about the case in terms of the the basic theistic of it which I think is because people are burned out on this
01:28:28
Trump has committed so many misdemeanors and crimes over time that we're kind of
01:28:33
used to it and you know my personal take on it and I'll just leave it at this is
01:28:37
I think it's going to be a speeding ticket I do think it's going to get overturned I think Trump has done this
01:28:43
his whole career I lived in New York all these real estate guys were doing all these kind of like little ticky tacky
01:28:49
cheating things and um I do think that this was politically motivated what was the second crime J
01:28:57
you if you understand election interference election you're not allowed to interfere with election so the theory
01:29:03
here which the you know the the jury unanimously voted in front of in over these six or seven weeks election
01:29:14
interference was because Trump was in Dire Straits he after the Access Hollywood
01:29:24
tape came out that weekend when he admitted to assaulting women the grab and by the blank came out his team in
01:29:32
this case admitted including his assistant Michael Cohen Allan weiselberg and of course the guy from the national
01:29:39
inquire pecker all of them agreed testified and just were completely honest that this payment and the reason
01:29:48
they bought these people off was because they were scared that it would reduce his
01:29:54
chances of being elected they were in panic mode they all testified to that the jury found that they committed these
01:30:02
crimes the falsifying of business records in order to save his election chances so that is the legal concept
01:30:08
This legal concept was available to everybody for the last you know since it's been filed in the New York Times
01:30:14
anybody who doesn't read these basic things and comments on this case is just a partisan who doesn't want to accept
01:30:22
the reality that these are actual legal Concepts that are completely valid now I
01:30:27
do think despite all of that and me making it abundantly clear to anybody that you don't want people falsifying
01:30:33
business records and you also don't want anybody interfering in elections I do think it was politically motivated so
01:30:39
you got to keep two things in your mind at the same time it's politically motivated Trump commits crimes regularly
01:30:46
often but they tend to be reversed you just said it was going to be reversed on appeal so if you're so confident it's a
01:30:52
crime then why do you also say it's going to get reversed yeah cuz I think well I I I'll let me restate that I
01:30:57
think he's going to get a speeding ticket I don't think the case is going to reverse I think there's going to be
01:31:01
some sort of a pardon now that this is a state kind of situation so it wouldn't be Biden who would pardon it it would be
01:31:06
the uh the governor and I think what's going to happen is somebody like Trump Teflon Don he's called that for a reason
01:31:13
he gets away with it every time he's Rich he's powerful like all rich and powerful people you have to really do
01:31:18
something hanus to wind up in jail so I think it's going to be a speeding ticket
01:31:22
I do think the the document cases that one is a pretty legitimate one with the obstruction and I do think the election
01:31:29
interference those are the two he should be really worried about because if he is
01:31:32
found guilty on those those are legit but I do think this country is going to need to come together I hate to be the
01:31:37
bigger person here but I do think the company the country needs to get together and get us two new candidates
01:31:44
and we can't be having this law fair and politically motivated lawsuits every time somebody loses or they're afraid of
01:31:51
losing an election but let me ask you a question Jason you're a you're a you're a famous successful person and over the
01:31:58
next 10 or 20 years the odds are pretty good you'll be more fam more successful same more Jamal do you
01:32:06
feel do you feel the less the same or more okay you have to say less same or more okay if somebody in Government
01:32:12
doesn't like what you're up to after today are you less the same or more in terms of the risk that the laws could be
01:32:21
used to fight you I think we're kind of in the same area I think there's always been politically
01:32:28
motivated prosecutions that have occurred that's part of you know the flaw in our legal system and I do think
01:32:34
appeals pardons exist as the the relief valow for those things and I think for Rich and powerful people with great
01:32:41
representation they always get off unless they've done something incredibly incredibly heinous and I don't think
01:32:47
this is incredibly heinous and so when it's framed as simply oh it's a porn star he banged a the porn star who cares
01:32:55
it was consensual and she got a payoff or maybe she was um extorting him even you know I I I don't know if those
01:33:02
details were ever determined if you could frame it as extortion or not I think none of that matters like
01:33:09
this this falsifying business records thing is just something they did they should just
01:33:15
own it they should have just PL it out and it should have probably never been escalated to the next level with the
01:33:22
election interference I thought that was a little bit of a stretched but not that
01:33:25
much of AET escalated because Alvin Brad got elected to pursue this case and that's the only way you could get it
01:33:30
from a misdemeanor to a felon yeah exactly so I think that is part of the you you sound I know you're really giddy
01:33:37
about this Jake C voice no I'm not honestly I I'm gonna stop you right there no sorry SX you don't get to say
01:33:45
I'm giddy I'm not gonna tell you how you feel you don't get to tell me how I feel
01:33:48
I actually am sad for America I'm sad for America that Trump and Biden are are choices okay great so speak for yourself
01:33:55
not for me okay great well maybe I'm just detecting enthusiasm in your voice I'm not quite sure what enthusiasm not
01:34:01
at all you're presenting these documents on the screen that are basically from Alvin br's case it's all you're doing is
01:34:07
repeating his theory of the case which I must say is extremely tortured and it's
01:34:13
novel I don't think a case like this has ever been brought and if you are going to bring a case against a former
01:34:18
president it should be for something more than ticky tacky type stuff stuff that you yourself have admit is
01:34:24
politically motivated it's obvious brag was out to get Trump this is a campaign strategy you have to bend the law into a
01:34:33
pretzel to create the case that you're describing listen you know I think Trump will continue to do these he's had these
01:34:40
long before he was in public office he got tons of speeding tickets like this he'll get them after he's out of office
01:34:45
he's always committed crimes he's always done these reminds me of is you remember
01:34:49
Ken star and what they went after Bill Clinton for with the whole Monica Linsky thing and when that star report dropped
01:34:55
you know and then had hundreds of pages of legalities and they described all the
01:34:59
perant behavior in yeah you know amazing amounts of detail at the end of the day
01:35:04
the American people looked at it and decided that maybe there's a tody element to this but it's personal
01:35:11
behavior and after some period of time Clinton's popularity rebounded and he actually gained seats in the midterms
01:35:18
because the Republicans overplayed their hand yeah totally and I think in a similar way it's very clear to me in
01:35:23
fact you've already said this is politically motivated and they basically have taken some sort of bookkeeping
01:35:29
error that was a misdemeanor that was pass the U statute of limitations and they've combined it again with this very
01:35:35
novel legal theory about somehow committing fraud in the election which by the way was not actually proven in
01:35:41
the case and as part of the jury instructions again the judge allowed the jury to have a multiple choice on what
01:35:51
the second crime was which is what a lot of legal think will become the basis for
01:35:55
appeal so again this whole case was tortured it was politically motivated I would go so far to say it's a sham it's
01:36:03
an outrage and I think people are reacting as though it's an outrage and again if you're GNA bring a case not
01:36:09
just against a former president but the current front runner to be the next president it better be something
01:36:15
important not this ticky tacky thing that the way you describe it as being ticky tacky why even waste the Public's
01:36:23
time with this why even spent all the money pursuing this I told you why yeah Donald Trump convicted felon that's the
01:36:30
reason why the media wants that talking point they and by the way if you want to
01:36:34
make a Switcheroo and get a different candidate than Joe Biden that's not going to happen now because Democrats
01:36:39
and the media think that this is their salvation they know they're running a c be it's not going to be the obstruction
01:36:46
case and the January six case that is those are legit cases they should have just gone after those because those are
01:36:51
the ones that are completely legit but here we are the Democratic party knows the running a candidate who can't
01:36:57
debate who can't put two sentences together who can barely find his way off a stage whose policies are coming home
01:37:03
to roost the economy like we talked about in the show is slowing down very rapidly his foreign policy is a disaster
01:37:10
but they think that somehow this is going to be his salvation is is being able to say that Donald Trump is a felon
01:37:17
that's their plan yeah and I think at the end of the day this is probably not going to work all right there you have
01:37:23
it folks there's your quick hot take around the horn with your besties on Trump being convicted by a jury in New
01:37:30
York today don't be sentence on July 11th and we'll see what happens there the market also after we talked about
01:37:39
Salesforce a bunch of the SAS companies took a dive in in the after hours freeberg any thoughts there as we
01:37:44
quickly not not just SAS but also Dell and in particular Dell reported their stock is down 20% after hours so I do
01:37:53
wonder if there is a slow Reckoning underway right now in technology that's as we talked about in
01:37:59
the show a function of both kind of an economic slowdown so Enterprises making fewer Investments but they were they
01:38:04
clearly called out the increased cost associated with AI so they are spending quite a lot and their their cogs on AI
01:38:12
systems is much higher and so they're showing a lot more cash burn and I think this is to ch's point ch's been talking
01:38:19
for a while this is unsustainable guys I've been saying this now for a month so let's just be precise again you cannot
01:38:25
spend this kind of money and show no incremental Revenue potential so while this is incredible for NVIDIA the
01:38:32
chicken is coming home to roost because if you do not start seeing Revenue flow to the bottom line of these companies
01:38:38
that are spending $26 billion doar a quarter the market cap of Nvidia is not what the market cap of Nvidia should be
01:38:45
and all of these other companies are going to get punished for spending this kind of money now Dell is a unique
01:38:50
example in the sense that I actually think it's a beneficiary of spend and I think that it will build data centers
01:38:57
and it will actually do well in the move to AI because it's a very smartly positioned pick and shovels provider but
01:39:05
the threshold question is where are all these new fangled things that we're supposed to see that justifies a hundred
01:39:11
billion dollar of Chip spend a year $200 billion doll of energy spend 100 billion
01:39:17
dollars of all this other stuff guys this is we're now spending $750 billion do this is on the order of a
01:39:25
national transfer payment and we've seen nothing to show for it except that you can mimic somebody's
01:39:32
voice and you can make like a cat jump on another cat I mean making a developer 30 or 40% more efficient that's actually
01:39:39
legit but I will say I did that hasn't happened yet either no that's toally happen yet no no that's happening in
01:39:45
startups right now I'm seeing startups with four developers do what just a couple years ago they would need eight
01:39:50
to do there and that's the premise of your 8 company H I think that developers can go faster with these tools but these
01:39:55
are yes but these are aspirational things when you take a for example a 30,000 person company it is not true
01:40:02
that those Engineers now are now all of a sudden as productive as 130,000 employees it's not even true that a
01:40:08
thousand employee company is as productive as a 4,000 person company and the reason is for one very specific
01:40:14
thing even as all of these next gener next Generation models get released the Practical threshold problem is when you
01:40:22
introduce a a completely new way of doing things into an existing Workforce what happens is people push back and
01:40:29
even in the companies that I own where I could theoretically mandate you must use
01:40:33
these tools because I am the owner of this company it does happen and so I think what you're really seeing Jason is
01:40:40
a few people embrace it those people may be 50 to 100% more productive but when you blend that into the entire Workforce
01:40:48
it's still a single digit percentage which means the overall productivity gains are nominal
01:40:54
you're forced to spend again $750 billion a year it doesn't all hang together yet yeah I agree there's going
01:41:02
to be a bit of a gap there and I am biased because I see startups which are always looking for the most resourceful
01:41:08
way to do things and you're talking about large Enterprises which are slow to adopt right both could be right here
01:41:14
yeah you get around the innovator's Dilemma by saying guys you need to be AI first from the outset which a startup
01:41:20
can do because they can they can recruit people that for example with 8090 same thing you
01:41:26
must use these tools for example we are not allowed to have any administrative staff everything is done by an agent or
01:41:32
workflow but that's because we're a new company and we can make those decisions but somebody who is at an established
01:41:38
company I suspect that these that these gains are nominal at Best Yet the spend is outrageous and it gets okay and when
01:41:46
it catches up with you when you report I think the market is sort of like saying
01:41:50
well I I I think the first the you know the general statement might be made that
01:41:54
perhaps the first AI mini bubble is bursting a bit and particularly with respect to the accelerated expectations
01:42:03
that public market investors had for public market technology stocks that perhaps now is the time for a bit of a
01:42:08
reckoning that perhaps this isn't going to happen at the same margin level or the pace that folks had modeled and this
01:42:15
is going to cause a bit of a setback I think pace is a very good point you're making I also think that with the GDP
01:42:20
slowdown that we've seen report that just came out this week with a sub 2% US GDP growth we are seeing an economic
01:42:26
slowdown underway there is going to be reduced spending there is going to be reduced conversion of Enterprise
01:42:31
customers to buy anything and so that is going to dramatically affect the market
01:42:36
we're looking at 5% 30-year treasury rates which means that you are going to see multiple compression that's going to
01:42:41
happen across the market for tech stocks so this could be the beginning of what I
01:42:45
think might be a slow contraction one thing I just want to make I just one thing to make I I I do have some
01:42:51
information on the Dell stuff one thing to keep in mind is they had like a 30% runup or 20% runup at least
01:43:00
since Nvidia CEO praised them and like I guess all these mem stock people just jumped in so I think it's just like a
01:43:08
little ticky tacky correction back to the ticky tacky sack any final Dots here on AI
01:43:13
before we all leave to go to our you know Trump celebrations Endor yeah maybe the market doesn't like
01:43:24
the us becoming a Banana Republic there it is folks the Banana Republic oh I can still be friends with
01:43:32
you guys uh all right everybody for who's you guys oh you guys to those guys all right for chats two missing buttons
01:43:44
would would like to encourage everybody to enjoy their summer three buttons are coming um we have you want to see my I
01:43:50
got my short short oh oh God that's so pasty white I got to get my sunglasses the over under on when chth goes for the
01:43:57
third button is J is June 25th so June 25th in the betting markets right now for the third button love you guys we'll
01:44:04
see you all next time on the world's greatest podcast byebye let your winners ride Rainman
01:44:17
David and instead we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it love you queen
01:44:25
[Music] of Besties are that's my dog taking your [Music] driveways we should all just get a room
01:44:42
and just have one big huge orgy cuz they're all this useless it's like this like sexual tension that they just need
01:44:47
to release somehow your your your be we need to get [Music] merch okay last year at the all in
01:45:08
Summit we had a wonderful talk by Jenny just and they have a very cool program called Power poker they're holding a
01:45:16
2024 summer boot camp and tournament for women only so for the ladies out there if you want to learn how to play poker
01:45:22
just like the besties and and Jenny just you can join this four-week training class get unlimited playing time and you
01:45:27
play in a tournament I'm going to come and uh play in one of the sessions but here's the great part we uh donated a
01:45:33
ticket because we think it's worth uh encouraging women to join the poker community and so uh there's a $7500
01:45:39
all-in summit 2024 ticket at stake there's only 80 spots go ahead and join at poker power.com
01:45:45
summer- boot camp poker power.com summer- boot cab it's going to fill up quick I know a number of the women who
01:45:51
work at my venture from launch have joined and they're looking forward to learning poker again 80 spots I think
01:45:56
they charge 100 bucks just to make sure you show up and uh there's an all-in Sumit ticket there for you you can
01:46:01
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okay everybody follow saxs x.com davidx and check out Sax's slack killer glue glue . a I'm Jason kakanis I amx.com
01:46:57
Jason and if you want to see pictures of my Bulldogs and the food I'm eating go to instagram.com Jason inth firstname
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