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"Bad News for the Stock Market": Chamath Explains The Great Economic Reset

March 03, 2025 / 07:56

This episode discusses economic concerns, austerity measures, and political coalitions with a focus on the stock and bond markets. Key topics include the impact of tariffs, immigration, and the performance of the MAG 7 stocks.

The conversation features insights on the current economic landscape, with a mention of a potential slowdown in growth rates. The discussion references the UK’s austerity measures from 2010 and draws parallels to the U.S. situation.

There is a focus on the political implications of austerity, particularly how it may affect voter sentiment and the potential for a populist response. The hosts consider the dynamics between asset owners and the working middle class in shaping future political coalitions.

Additionally, the episode touches on the concept of the Great Reset and the challenges of maintaining political power amidst economic changes. The hosts speculate on the long-term effects of austerity on the stock market and asset values.

Overall, the episode presents a critical view of the current economic policies and their potential consequences for different socio-economic groups.

TLDR

Economic concerns, austerity, and political coalitions shape future market dynamics.

Episode

7:56
00:00:00
I tend to be sort of in the Stevie Cohen Camp it's not like the bottom is going to fall up but there's like a lot of
00:00:06
room for concern I guess is the best way to put it Nick I don't know if you can find that clip that at fi but he had a
00:00:13
very precise summary of how he saw the world and I I I frankly just agreed with everything that he was saying so he he
00:00:20
probably can say better than I when you take a brew of tariffs on top of that we
00:00:27
have slowing immigration and in addition now have Doge I mean that's austerity we
00:00:32
think growth is going to slow to 1 and 12% from 2 and 12% in the second half and so I'm actually pretty negative for
00:00:39
the first time in a while and it may only last a year or so but it's definitely I think the best gains have
00:00:45
been had and and wouldn't surprise me to see a significant correction I think a couple of very specific thoughts the
00:00:52
first is that you're starting to see this compression of the mag 7 towards everybody else so this is the
00:01:00
forward PE of these guys and so what you're starting to see is everybody else starting to capture back some of the
00:01:06
ground people are processing what the real upside of of the mag s is now if you go to the other
00:01:12
chart what this starts to show you though is that mag7 is really price to Perfection and so you have to believe
00:01:20
that the world kind of stays the way that it is otherwise you're going to have some amount of of mean
00:01:27
reversion so I think the stock market on the margin is a little expensive and not
00:01:33
particularly that attractive second the bond market has basically said okay we are going to give you credit that doge
00:01:42
is going to work and that tariffs are going to work so we've had some pretty meaningful compression in the 10e which
00:01:48
I think is really interesting I think it's very good for bessent and for Trump and I think I've mentioned this before
00:01:54
but we got to go in and you know refinance 10 trillion dollars in the next six months
00:02:01
so you could see this thing maybe even get under 4% if we gets a good string of data the real problem I think though is
00:02:11
that if you look back and say what does this look like the example that I would give you
00:02:18
guys is in 2010 in the United Kingdom the deficit as a percentage of GDP was 10% and the UK government embarked on a
00:02:29
multi-year austerity plan and they said we're going to get the deficit as a percentage of GDP back in line and
00:02:37
ultimately by 2016 it got to 3% which is where we are trying to get to and right
00:02:42
now we're a little bit under 7% we're trying to get it to 3% so it's interesting to ask what
00:02:49
happened and there the bond market gave the UK government a ton of credit so they kept rates relatively low and they
00:02:58
brought them back from where they were that seems like What's Happening Here Yeah the stock market the stock market
00:03:05
kind of went sideways to a little bit down let's see what happens here but the real big thing is in the UK all of this
00:03:14
created tremendous dissatisfaction and you had brexit so I think the question that I
00:03:20
have is if we go through a prolonged austerity program and the frustration amongst the
00:03:29
American populist builds what's the release valve there the release valve was Voting to leave the EU here it's not
00:03:37
quite it's not obvious to me what a releas electing Trump was step one and I don't know if there's something even
00:03:42
more populist than Trump other than no I I think he is the mechanism of implementing the austerity I think
00:03:48
people want this austerity just the question is what happens when the actual byproducts of that austerity are felt by
00:03:53
people for six or seven years I don't know what the answer is you've been talking a little bit about this I don't
00:03:59
if was a couple weeks ago you were tweeting about the great reset Theory and there's you know whatever that is
00:04:05
the third or fourth turning people have been talking about you want to uh maybe encapsulate your thoughts I think you
00:04:11
have to figure out what the goal is so one goal is you could say that the Republicans want to
00:04:23
have consistent political power right that's a reasonable goal the Democrats want that too right a different goal
00:04:30
would be to do what freeberg said we're going to go and take the lumps because we are going to defend the dollar and
00:04:39
The credibility of the United States we're just going to make sure that structurally it's sound and take the
00:04:44
pain that's necessary to reset that could be a goal I think the reality is something in the Middle where you can't
00:04:51
be in one camp and you can't be in the other because I don't think you can get anything done and somewhere in the
00:04:57
middle I think the thing that I have been thinking about is when will somebody sniff
00:05:04
out what the great Coalition is that preserves political power whether that's the Democrats or the
00:05:14
Republicans the reality is that you will have a consistent majority if you get three cohorts of people together cohort
00:05:25
number one are the people that frankly don't have many assets and are the working in Middle Class meaning they
00:05:32
don't necessarily own homes they don't necessarily have investments in the stock market so they don't particularly
00:05:38
care about what's happening there okay that cohort dominates there was a clip of
00:05:45
a discussion at Harvard just this past week about the different political coalitions that voted for Trump versus
00:05:51
kamla Harris the most important takeaway that I took from it is that if you make
00:05:56
$100,000 or more a year you're a reliable Democratic voter if you went to college you're a reliable Democratic
00:06:04
voter everything else is a reliable Republican voter but the thing to remember is that bucket of everything
00:06:10
else is growing faster than that first bucket so you have this Coalition of the asset light working in middle class and
00:06:20
then you have other people patriotic business people and patriotic business owners and Technology people that care
00:06:26
about Innovation that Maga has been able to correct into a coalition my point is if that is the
00:06:35
consistent reliable thing that cements political power multiple elections from now and we've seen this before in the
00:06:42
past where Republicans can go on a three-term run or you know a four-term run Democrats have as well in the past
00:06:48
it is bad news for the stock market and it is bad news for asset owners because it doesn't reward the constituents back
00:06:54
to Freed Brook's point so if you are going to feed your constituents and your constituents don't own stocks and your
00:07:00
constituents don't own homes or they are so wealthy that they can be inoculated from a massive draw down in those asset
00:07:10
categories what do you think the winning strategy is that is my rough working version of
00:07:18
what our version of brexit is right so if you have many many years of austerity what
00:07:25
does it really result in I think if you want to cement political power I think it
00:07:31
requires a walking down of these asset markets in a meaningful way that's stocks and that's real estate and I just
00:07:38
don't see any other way around it fascinating the good news is I think from my perspective is but by the way
00:07:44
sorry last thing I would say that's a total Theory and I could change my mind as I get more data but I'm just saying
00:07:49
like I'm just trying to work through the possibilities and in the distribution of
00:07:53
outcomes that's sort of where my head's at right now

Episode Highlights

  • Market Concerns
    Austerity measures and tariffs may lead to a significant market correction.
    “I think a significant correction is coming.”
    @ 00m 47s
    March 03, 2025
  • Political Coalitions
    The growing asset-light middle class may reshape political power dynamics.
    “This coalition is growing faster than the first bucket.”
    @ 06m 13s
    March 03, 2025

Episode Quotes

  • I think the stock market on the margin is a little expensive.
    "Bad News for the Stock Market": Chamath Explains The Great Economic Reset
  • What happens when the actual byproducts of that austerity are felt?
    "Bad News for the Stock Market": Chamath Explains The Great Economic Reset
  • If you make $100,000 or more a year, you're a reliable Democratic voter.
    "Bad News for the Stock Market": Chamath Explains The Great Economic Reset

Key Moments

  • Austerity Worries03:26
  • Political Power Shift07:29

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