00:00:00
Sam did you go down to the Breakthrough thing this weekend the Breakthrough prize was amazing it's like observing
00:00:05
exotic animals in their natural habitat well a friend of mine who you hung out with down there called me last night to
00:00:12
give me the breakdown on all the individuals he saw and what was going on with them I mean he's like I don't even
00:00:17
know how Nat and I keep getting invited to this but like to say we were outclass
00:00:21
is an understatement the people at that thing were what is it break rewards the Breakthrough prize yeah yeah I couldn't
00:00:27
make it I got invited to sh so incredible okay first of all shout out to Yuri and Julia it is incredible there
00:00:33
were two moments where I cried this woman goes up on stage to give an award to the people that had made this
00:00:42
investment in cystic fibrosis yeah and she says my child was born with cystic fibrosis and then my second child was
00:00:50
born with cystic fibrosis and then my second child died she said that I just burst into tears and then you present an
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award to the person that actually is helping them Stamp Out the disease we celebrated the people that found the
00:01:04
gene that caused Parkinson's and then yeah I mean the the people at that is pretty incredible it's in LA right they
00:01:11
did it in Los Angeles yeah I mean like look Yuri Milner and Julia Milner Zuck and Priscilla Chan and Andi
00:01:20
and so gabrian those six people are the ones that organize this breakthrough prize and I think it's just a modern
00:01:26
version of the Nobel which tries to really shine a spotlight on people doing really groundbreaking work in physics
00:01:33
and math and life sciences and so you get people that have just done things that are just very
00:01:41
practical and are very real and I think what they do is they make frankly these kinds of
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achievements much more high level in the sense that you're bringing together people from Hollywood
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and people from Silicon Valley and the awareness is up and it's just incredibly well produced
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yeah it's really a cool thing to be a part of but I mean seeing some of these people are very intimidating I sat
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beside Vin Diesel oh really that was super cool he is a super nice guy and on the other
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side of me was someone that actually saxs knows Toby emerik who's U was the chairman of Warner Brothers so just
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talking to these guys was super cool moving it to Los Angeles was a great movea yeah it's just I was invited I
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couldn't make it Sor and thank you to Julia and Yuri for inviting us again but it's really great that they're giving it
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the celebration it deserves and making it you know like dare I say sexy and cool and hip to be a scientist and solve
00:02:46
the world's biggest problems I I think it's just so awesome and you're right Sergey Bren Amo
00:02:52
jaie Sak Priscilla and Julia and Yuri are the founders of the Breakthrough the craziest thing is they give a they give
00:03:00
a youth breakthrough award so the Breakthrough prize is this beautiful globe and then the junior winner gets
00:03:05
like a smaller version very appropriate and it was a video of this kid in India who had won it a few years ago and then
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went off to MIT and then graduated and then the video is of him coming back to Bangalore because his
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sister had won it this year and he presented to the sister and all I could think of was this is an incredible
00:03:29
achievement by like a 16-year-old and literally at the same time my 16-year-old was like Dad the chicken
00:03:36
tenders from door Dash you get I can't find my chicken fingers let your winners ride Rainman
00:03:48
[Music] David we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it love you
00:03:56
Queen Dad I said get me the spicy fries not the regular cinjun fries the girl that
00:04:05
wanted freeberg did something with yamaka factors so it's like it's really incredible and inspiring but fortunately
00:04:13
don't worry my my 16-year-old was able to get the chicken tenders and everything was fun oh okay good yeah
00:04:19
shut you called rerouted it I can't get his chicken tenders what do we do hilarious but by the way the other
00:04:28
the other thing I'll say is the person that performed is really amazing Charlie peth and and the reason
00:04:33
I say it is if you Google Charlie peth this guy he's a young guy in his early 20s I'm guessing he is so talented
00:04:44
there's all these videos of Charlie PE where he'll make a random noise like he'll clink a coke bottle with a fork
00:04:51
and then he'll record it and then he'll put it into these digital editing tools and then he'll make like a entire five
00:04:58
minute song using that as the base like as the basic building block the guy is so
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talented anyways it was a very it was a very cool event fantastic how are you doing sax you okay buddy I'm good it's
00:05:15
good start there it is folks we're back it's gonna be a hell of a show let's go I got
00:05:22
to do don't waste time with your with your pointless banter it's why people T it in it's the banter they the banter
00:05:28
bro how you doing free bir what you got a little uh scene from the movie Her wow we're off to a strong start here
00:05:36
look at all these contributions I got a shrug from freeberg I got a gr let's get started
00:05:43
from Sachs I don't talk about my backg rats let's go anything good on the menu tonight shth I just want I'm coming over
00:05:48
for poker I wanted to know if there's anything octopus oh so the Greek comes back and you get the octopus on you get
00:05:55
the octopus I I think that Sean missed you he did by the way sea experimented with with some Greek cheese that you
00:06:01
grill that was pretty delicious that back chei a what's the plural of octopus is
00:06:07
it octopi yeah aren't they like Cent creatures or something halumi yeah uh you know what it's interesting you bring
00:06:15
that up I had a grilled octopus stand at one of our events and somebody who is um
00:06:23
you know a conscientious consumer of calories Lobby me to take the grilled octopus off of the menu I won't say who
00:06:33
what what wait what I got lobbied very strongly not only is it deeply wrong to eat all the animals that you people eat
00:06:42
and you will one day realize it or your children or your children's children will realize it but octopus in
00:06:47
particular have the IQ of four to eighty olds they can actually sign they can communicate they can solve problems uh
00:06:56
you can watch YouTube videos on this it's pretty incredible they're amazing creatur it's also why in the movie The
00:07:01
Arrival the future alien race is made out to be seops because they're the most advanced creature that's likely to
00:07:09
become a civilized form if humans didn't exist I have a one-w reaction to that yum delici Del yummy it's the IQ that
00:07:19
makes it taste so good oh my God that's dark that's dark you're saying the IQ is like the
00:07:27
spice yeah it's kind of like the fat content you know it's kind of like the marbling it's the marbling it's the
00:07:33
marbling of it that's dark I don't know oh oh yeah by the way thanks guys yeah I'm fine yeah I'm great I'm feeling
00:07:39
great yeah the tooth is healed I got the Imp you look like you've been eating well just only things with above are you
00:07:46
off the wovi or the what do you call it well no no you know what I did was I got
00:07:50
off the wovi so I could eat more animals and now I'm getting back on because I feel I feel so terrible about how many I
00:07:58
was in Austin I ate every let me ask question yeah go ahead if you eat high IQ foods does it make you
00:08:06
smarter absolutely absolutely this is why the Greeks invented so many things we invented math Plumbing cities
00:08:12
democracy all the great things the Greeks created comes from the fact that we ate so many high IQ creatures correct
00:08:19
are you able to be vegetarian were you able to find good vegetarian or veggie options in
00:08:25
Austin who talking to me yeah I I mean I I see a vegetable I push it away I'm like wait a second Jakel was on
00:08:34
a seafood diet in Austin if he saw food he ate it J but it's not inaccurate the barbecue in Austin is so spectacular
00:08:45
Terry Black's beef ribs I had with a friend of ours man they're just dynamite and then the Salt Lick brisket
00:08:53
Franklin's brisk I mean it is just extraordinary shout out to all my barbecue folks there and sorry for
00:08:58
triggering every that wasn't button down J battered and barbecue sauce and that took out the rib was the Bison
00:09:08
I'm sorry I was way apologies to the audience it took out a tooth you know as as far as I feel worth it what is a
00:09:14
bison rib taste like is it taste like be man I it is it's the beef ribs are very
00:09:19
tender the bison's got a little more chew to it it's a little more texture yeah and and they let this thing go at
00:09:25
the Salt Lick for like 12 hours and they're just barbecue sauce in it forever it's a
00:09:31
little chewy and so that's what took out the tooth but great job freeberg on moderating episode was fantastic yes I I
00:09:39
was chomping on the bit quite literally sacks to talk about some stuff chomping on the bit to the point I thought I
00:09:43
shattered a tooth but I am back and I have so much energy I missed you guys I actually missed y'all freeberg so much
00:09:50
good stuff happening with the summit and uh I'm delighted that John is doing all
00:09:55
this work you're doing all this work and I can just sit back and enjoy it so tell
00:10:01
us is there an update on the summit yeah you're just collecting your coupon but uh yeah we had within 72 hours I think
00:10:09
we had more applications than we have seats but we are still leaving applications open and in the next week
00:10:15
we'll start to respond to people so basically if you're interested in going to the
00:10:21
summit sign up now get your applications in this week apply early yeah is the key
00:10:26
yeah because it's going to be done in order of when it's received and they're going to start processing
00:10:31
applications this week we'd love to get everyone that wants to show up show up and if you went in the past your
00:10:39
registration window is wrapped up this week so that's alumni automatically get in alumni automatically are in and then
00:10:48
tell us about the scholarship because I'm getting bombarded and everybody who's an upand cominging all-in fan
00:10:53
we're going to announce it in a couple of weeks so no plan yet but there will be yeah we'll still do scholarships
00:10:58
because I think they were super successful and helpful to people that otherwise couldn't afford the ticket I
00:11:02
know it's expensive this year but the reason was we actually spent a lot more per person last year than people
00:11:09
actually paid for their tickets so same it's less than 10 so yeah we're trying to get the priced so that we can make um
00:11:15
make this thing break even and we're gonna have scholarship tickets with the balance great so should be awesome I saw
00:11:21
a couple speakers come in there's two not talking about it yet not talking about come on just can we just tell the
00:11:26
two speakers who said yes come on the a not yet we do a big announ landed a big speaker and I think it's gonna be
00:11:33
awesome in a week in a week we'll announce a bunch together listen well one thing I don't want to wait on is
00:11:37
today's docket because it is unbelievable welcome everybody to episode 175 that's right it's episode 175 of
00:11:45
your favorite podcast and the largest and most listened to podcast in the world officially episode 175 of the
00:11:52
all-in podcast starts right now and ah I got so many feelings about this is that
00:11:57
the largest most listen to podcast in the world I'm manifesting oh you're manifesting I'm manifesting shth just
00:12:04
like just like is the world's greatest poker player and then we watch Robo roll over him is that a new word that
00:12:11
narcissists use for lying manifesting no it's just like you know the world's greatest poker player and then we see
00:12:17
Phil helmuth get dominated by by C Jason just so you know tonight is a murderer row and helmuth is flying back
00:12:25
you saw the lineup I'm very excited to see what happens tonight is J and coming or no yeah I mean and Robel
00:12:33
and then the world's greatest helmuth playing is so great to watch it's like a meta ego battle no it is and those you
00:12:40
know what's interesting two of those three guys are like the most humble guys you would ever meet in your life am I
00:12:46
correct in your life just you could you could not be more lowkey and self-effacing than Robel and for
00:12:52
how good they are and and but if you were honestly going to rank the three of them in a in a high stakes cash game
00:12:58
could you just hand it for the audience because we are in a we're in a lucky position you and I to play with these
00:13:03
three epic players in the world break down how they play in a home game you know like
00:13:11
ours so I would say the most dynamic range would probably be Robel because Robel has the most experience
00:13:22
playing super super high stakes cash I think is the most precise and like true to
00:13:36
GTO hard to exploit I mean is impossible to exploit impossible doesn't no no mistakes no mistakes no mistakes
00:13:43
Robel knows how to gamble in certain spots knows how to be unexploitable and the third player is
00:13:50
philam the third person is and hel just loses his mind it is so no the thing with helmuth is he's
00:13:58
made he's capable unlike anyone I've ever seen a folding in spots that are and and he's correct by the way I've
00:14:04
seen H fold Ace King in spots that none of us would ever do it I've seen them fold Kings in spots that are basically
00:14:10
impossible so Huth is able to get these Soul reads on people that I think are amazing yeah but look the the
00:14:20
the higher and higher the stakes get the more and more I think Robel will be comfortable and and will just go to
00:14:27
a Playbook that he knows and trusts H I am I'm so excited to be back at the game tonight all right listen the docket
00:14:36
is so great this week we got a great classic all-in docket I want to start with Google firing 28 employees who were
00:14:42
involved in this protest at their offices we didn't think that this would happen we were having a discussion on
00:14:48
the group chat on Tuesday about a dozen employees engaged in stins at the company's offices in Sunnyvale and New
00:14:53
York City protesting the conflict in the Middle East between between Israel and Palestine and so they took over
00:15:03
literally took over the offices of the uh CEO of Google cloud and nine employees were arrested after refusing
00:15:10
to leave the protest was organized by a group called No tech for apartheid and they posted a bunch of clips of this sit
00:15:17
in on X those 28 employees were fired on Wednesday after a quick investigation the VP of Global
00:15:25
Security was pretty direct and candid me this is based they took over office spaces defaced our property and
00:15:35
physically impeded the work of other googlers Behavior like this has no place in our workplace and we will not
00:15:41
tolerate it if you're one of the few who are tempted to think we're going to overlook conduct that violates our
00:15:46
policies think again so what were the protests about Google is uh involved in a project Nimbus a $1.2 billion Cloud
00:15:54
contract with Israel's government both Google and Amazon are involved in the project which was announced in 2021
00:16:00
Google has denied it was doing work for the military saying it was working with departments like Finance Healthcare
00:16:06
Transportation there's a lot of details to this but let's start with you freberg
00:16:10
since you were a googler and we've been talking about the culture of Google putting aside what the protests were
00:16:16
about how do you feel about protests in the workplace we've talked about it before here with coinbase and others and
00:16:25
then is this a distinct change in tone that I'm hearing from Google that they've had enough of social activism at
00:16:34
the office I mean yeah there's obviously a line crossed in in the the view of security but I think you could look at
00:16:46
this two ways you could look at this as being a culture of entitlement that let folks feel that our
00:16:54
employees that they have permission to stage stins and behaviors like this because Google is so
00:17:01
infinitely tolerant in giving employees the space and the room to do whatever they want to do and all of their wishes
00:17:10
and demands can be met and will be met if they demand it strongly enough that's one way to look at this and that that
00:17:17
culture manifested this Behavior another way to look at it is that these people feel so deeply strongly and passionately
00:17:24
about the issue at hand that they were willing to risk their jobs and arrest and they cared so deeply about an issue
00:17:31
that they think no one's paying enough attention to that they're willing to put themselves and sacrifice themselves for
00:17:35
it so I I want to be empathetic to that point of view as well but I do think that
00:17:42
there's a belief that there may have been this kind of entitlement culture where anytime Google employees ask for
00:17:49
stuff they get it someone told me the other day how at tgfs at Google Now where they do these all hands and people
00:17:55
get to ask questions this person is kind of executive level they're so sick and tired of how every question is all about
00:18:02
employees asking for more things that they want so it's like when are we going to get this bonus when are we going to
00:18:08
get this gym when are we going to get this that's so much of the orientation of being an employee at Google is all
00:18:14
about what Google can do for me and how I can get more and that becomes what you
00:18:19
ask for it's like you give a kid something you give them candy they always ask for
00:18:22
candy and I think that there's certainly an element of that culture kind of being
00:18:29
froed up over the years at Google but I do think that this is an issue that people care very passionately about
00:18:34
right now and you're seeing it all over the place so certainly not in the same week we had uh the Golden Gate Bridge
00:18:40
get shut down the Bay Bridge get shut down as well shath your thoughts on these protests and then obviously the
00:18:46
entitlement issues that freeberg alludes to specifically at alphabet gooogle they're two separate things and I think
00:18:54
it's important to deal with them individually groups of people in society in a democracy should have a right to protest
00:19:03
that's absolutely fundamental and I think they can raise a lot of issues that could otherwise get swept into the
00:19:10
carpet when that stuff impedes the public functioning of society for other people then I think there's a
00:19:17
responsibility for law enforcement and other people to act and make sure that that is better managed so shutting down
00:19:27
an entire Bridge is not only disruptive it can be really dangerous of course and
00:19:33
it can hurt your cause because then people people dislike the cause because it hurt them right typically what
00:19:38
happens is you're supposed to file for a permit to protest and when you get that
00:19:42
there are areas that are cordoned off and then people allowed to express their views that's a really healthy form of
00:19:47
democracy going rogue like this will only blow up in people's faces because the folks that are somewhat sympathetic
00:19:53
will eventually get burned by this experience and turn against them so that's one set of issues I think that's
00:19:58
just people going rogue and I think that you can't be tolerant of that kind of chaos there should be organized protests
00:20:05
but not disorganized chaos and law enforcement needs to get a control of that inside of a company I think this is
00:20:11
different it's this weird thing that I see which is like what I would call like left-on-left violence it's like left
00:20:17
leaning people creating all of these distractions and demonstrations inside of left leaning organizations for not
00:20:24
being left leaning enough and so it's kind of like a little bit nutty because I think it actually
00:20:31
shows how totally naive these employees are and what basic business understanding they have the first and
00:20:38
foremost being that they are at will employees these are not people that are contracted players in the NBA or are
00:20:45
part of a union okay where you have guaranteed employment through some mechanism or some arbitration process to
00:20:51
even be let go the fact that you don't even understand that you are at will means that you are there because you
00:20:56
want to be there and Google allows you to be there because they choose for you to be there and at any point if either
00:21:01
of you break a covenant you can be gone that kind of stuff I think is very distracting and it just belies a poor
00:21:09
understanding of what you're there to do Google is a for-profit business and they
00:21:14
are in the business of generating maximum profit on behalf of their shareholders they are also incentivized
00:21:21
to do that in a way that achieves a mission and a set of values that the majority of their employees agree with
00:21:28
and the fact that a small cohort of people can try to hijack and sabotage that overall direction I think is very
00:21:37
misguided saxs I I don't know if you have any opinions on this I didn't see anything in the docket I'm not sure if
00:21:43
you have any strong feelings here but your thoughts on Google employees and the protest putting aside you know the
00:21:50
the nature of the protest this could be for BLM this could be for Trump's indictments you could you could be
00:21:55
protesting any number of things but the protesting at work is is and then Google
00:22:00
specifically which we talked about with the Gemini issues and you know this stuff bleeding over into product I think
00:22:06
freeberg said it really nicely hey are are people actually focused on products at Google anymore or
00:22:14
is the whole place just focused on social issues that have nothing to do with their waning apparently product
00:22:20
scent well I Google had no choice but to fire these employees they were being disruptive and they were trespassing and
00:22:28
Google has the business to run so this is what any business would do and I don't think they deserve either credit
00:22:33
or blame for taking the action they took in terms of the protesters themselves I
00:22:39
think that in the fullness of time we may come to think of them in a slightly different
00:22:46
light and some of this reminds me a little bit of of Another War the protesters in another War the Vietnam
00:22:53
War where they were very disruptive in some cases they trespassed in some cases they got arrested they were easy to make
00:23:00
fun of in terms of what they look like they were sort of unkempt unshaven all the rest of that stuff they were hippies
00:23:07
and at the time people were I'd say very dismissive of them or actually antagonistic they were seen as giving
00:23:14
Aid and comfort the enemy and they were sort of demonized but now in the fullness of time we look back on that
00:23:21
war and realize that they had a point in fact maybe they were right in fact maybe
00:23:25
their actions were Justified and I think that how we view these protesters at Google can't just be judged now I think
00:23:33
it's going to have to be judged in the fullness of time based on how we perceive this war in Gaza and I want to
00:23:38
make two points about why I think this war will eventually be viewed as Israel's Vietnam the first is that in
00:23:47
Gaza Israel faces a a gorilla style force and they're in a quagmire and if you read the latest news that's coming
00:23:57
out of Gaza what you'll hear is that after Israel has supposedly cleared an area like Gaza
00:24:04
City or con Yunis they then move South Hamas has po back up again this whole idea that they can clear an area has
00:24:12
been proven false it's like playing whacka they basically hit Hamas in one area Hamas disappears down the tunnels
00:24:19
they come back in a different area and this is why you're seeing a lot of Articles now in harat which is Israeli
00:24:24
newspaper saying the war in Gaza is already lost you had the Wall Street Journal
00:24:29
last week run an article saying that Israel is winning every battle but losing the war which is the again shades
00:24:38
of Vietnam here and you got to understand the Wall Street Journal is the most pro-israel of all the major
00:24:44
mainstream Publications I don't think the W stre Journal has ever written a truly critical article about Israel and
00:24:50
they describe this guacal Dynamic you also have the general Gotti eisenkop who's a a member of
00:24:58
the war cabinet these member of of the sort of War government in Israel came out and said that we can degrade Hamas
00:25:05
in Gaza but we cannot destroy it and he said anyone who's telling you that we can destroy Hamas is telling you a tall
00:25:12
tale and that was I think an appointed reference to netanyahu's claim that they would destroy Hamas and Gaza so you've
00:25:19
got shades of Vietnam in terms of it being this unwinable War I think the second aspect of of a similarity to
00:25:26
Vietnam is just the huge number of Civ I Ian casualties you recall that in Vietnam the Viet Kong tried to grab us
00:25:33
by the belt buckle they knew that America had Superior Firepower so they tried to get in close use ambushes booby
00:25:40
traps snipers and in response to that the Americans used immense amounts of Firepower and bombing to try and subdue
00:25:48
the Vietnamese and 3.4 million vietnames were killed in that war according to Robert
00:25:55
mcnamer the second thing that happened is the Rules of Engagement in Vietnam got extremely loose you took a bunch of
00:26:01
scared American Kids many of whom were conscripts you drop them in a jungle pretty much because they feared ambushes
00:26:07
they shot anything that moved and then finally I think partly to justify this you had a a dehumanization of the
00:26:16
Vietnamese that they were seen as as somehow kind of subhuman in any event if you watch movies about Vietnam like
00:26:22
platoon which was made by Oliver Stone who was a GI in Vietnam or if you watch uh stainley Kubrick's Masterpiece Full
00:26:29
Metal Jacket which was based on books about Vietnam you can see these Dynamics in play very vividly now turn to to Gaza
00:26:38
all you got to do is look at the miles and miles of video to see it looks like a lunar surface I mean even in the words
00:26:45
of Joe Biden there's been indiscriminate bombing there in terms of the Rules of Engagement The Rules of Engagement have
00:26:50
gotten very loose a week or two ago you had the desk of those seven Aid workers from the international kitchen or
00:26:58
organization and there's an article in haret recently about the kill zones have been set up pretty much if you come
00:27:04
within a certain invisible perimeter of Israeli troops you can be shot I mean those are the rules of engagement and
00:27:09
this is why there were three Israeli hostages who escaped and they were running towards Israeli troops and
00:27:16
yelling in Hebrew and they still got shot and again this goes back to the Rules of Engagement being very loose and
00:27:21
then the final piece of it is you do have this dehumanization going on of the Palestinians you can see this in a lot
00:27:27
of the have been posted by IDF soldiers so look I think that these protesters their actions are going to be judged in
00:27:35
the fullness of time I think there are actually good reasons to believe that Israel's war in Gaza it's shades of
00:27:43
Vietnam and I think that over the long term people may regard these protesters in a different light right now they're
00:27:50
just seeing as being disruptive and annoying and interfering but if this war ends up being Israel's Vietnam which I
00:27:58
think it's on track to be again I think that people may in time give these protesters a little bit more credit J
00:28:05
what do you think interesting question you know putting aside what they're protesting about I think they knew or
00:28:13
some number of them knew they were going to get fired so I think they're kind of
00:28:17
resigning by sit in and I think yeah there could be nobility to that if you do not want to
00:28:23
participate in supporting things in the world you do not have to work at Google and you can protest and you can get
00:28:30
fired and we've seen like some pretty intense protests I I don't know if you guys are aware of like what green peace
00:28:35
and other environmentalists did to stop whing I'm sure you are aware freedberg was your passion on the subject those
00:28:42
people went to jail in Japan for boarding Japanese whing ships like those are really intense protesters but then
00:28:49
to your point shth you know you you can really hurt your cause clim act climate activists have been throwing paint on
00:28:56
works of art I don't know if you've seen that and and that's just infuriating like I I have no tolerance for people
00:29:02
destroying works of art or attempting to get attention here it is benign to sit in an office and get fired so I I just
00:29:10
consider it resigning by sit in if they want to do that that's fine I do think there is something to Google enabling
00:29:16
all this to your point Friedberg over time and and listen they were parodied on Silicon Valley the TV show because of
00:29:25
how coddled and entitled people are so there's a a bunch of things going on at the same time and you know if you want
00:29:32
to do these intense protests you have the right to do them and history will judge you o over time but you need to be
00:29:38
able to pay the price in this case the price is getting fired in the case of like shutting down the Golden Gate
00:29:44
Bridge like you should get a fine for doing that I believe and the fine should be based on whatever that cost to shut
00:29:49
that bridge down um and and that's got to be a serious fine and you're right Cham people if there's an emergency
00:29:56
situation somebody's got to get to a hospital hospital or something that's what I always think about when I see
00:30:01
those things when you block streets and stuff or you block airports or you block
00:30:04
these throughways there's a lot of just normal everyday people trying to live their life who are probably very
00:30:09
sympathetic to what yeah what you stand for but when you disrupt their everyday lives Andor threaten their physical
00:30:18
security they're not going to think that that's worth it I'm also shocked that these people actually came to an office
00:30:24
I mean these googlers I don't think they've actually been to an office before they probably check that their
00:30:28
badges were you know to saak to Sax's point I actually would have had more respect for these people if they
00:30:34
actually protested the war but they didn't do that they had a very discreet specific
00:30:40
claim which was that they wanted to dissolve a business deal that Google had to provide cloud services to the state
00:30:47
of Israel called project Nimbus and I think that's such a discreet thing that it's hard to understand that those 28
00:30:55
people would have even enough knowledge of what that is but it sounds like a cloud hosting deal well what's hosted
00:31:02
there and it could be any number of things and I suspect if it's a billion dollar a year deal it's many things it's
00:31:08
probably like the Israeli DMV is that really what you want and I think that it would have been much of a more powerful
00:31:16
thing to do to protest the actual War if that's what they cared about you know duve tailes nicely with the discussion
00:31:21
you all had last week about would you back a not a defensive but an offensive weapon company a technology company and
00:31:30
uh it seemed like you all had reservations on if you would not back a defensive one anybody I think reasonably
00:31:37
would back a defensive you know Dome or interception of bombs coming in that's an easy one but going around the horn
00:31:44
here how many of us would back a company making missiles or bombs that blow people up or mines would you back a
00:31:54
robot that had weapon systems on it I think if you want to summarize what we said last week it's like there are all
00:32:02
kinds of businesses where you'll end up investing in it and over time as it morphs some of us will be faced with
00:32:09
some of those decisions and it'll it'll frankly depend on what is the alternative in that moment so I don't
00:32:16
think anybody of us are going into go and build a nuclear bomb but you should not
00:32:22
be naive that if you're building nuclear reactors you could end up being in a situation where that thing geted into
00:32:30
into a that you either agree or disagree with so this is my point is I think that
00:32:34
those kind of answers or those kinds of questions are missing the nuances and the nuances are very important so it's
00:32:43
impossible to answer this question in a thoughtful way I think would be my my honest answer okay saak any any closing
00:32:48
thoughts here well I I think um chth brings up an interesting point about why didn't the
00:32:56
protesters just focus on the war itself rather than Google doing business with Israel my interpretation of that is
00:33:01
they're trying to create a Nexus to themselves meaning their employees of Google they're trying to create a reason
00:33:07
for them to Stage the Sittin at Google otherwise you know if they just grab picket signs and were on the street it
00:33:14
would just be much less newsworthy so I think they were just trying to create something newsworthy here and it's kind
00:33:19
of worked in the sense that we're talking about it other people are talking about it so that's my
00:33:24
interpretation of that is they were just trying to at the the issue in in a slightly novel way but look I think that
00:33:32
they should be willing to pay the price of getting fired or getting arrested I mean if you're going to engage in that
00:33:37
kind of Civil Disobedience or protest you should be willing to accept the price and I did see some comments by the
00:33:44
googlers who got fired saying that they thought they're being treated unfairly by Google I think that's the wrong
00:33:49
attitude I think the attitude is hey this cause is so important to me that I'm willing to accept the price of being
00:33:56
fired saying that you don't deserve to be fired for disrupting the workplace that is kind of an entitled attitude so
00:34:03
I think they should have just said yeah we did this on purpose because yeah it's
00:34:07
PR say I'm proud to get I'm proud to get fired because that's how much I believe
00:34:11
in it my stock options at right Google are less important than this issue to me yeah and I and I'm I'm accept it I think
00:34:19
they would have gotten just as much press if they actually protested the War I think in a week from now everybody
00:34:24
will forget what project Nimbus is the odds that it gets canel are less than zero and everybody will move on and it
00:34:31
will not add to the drum beat as sack said of people that may be eventually on the right side of this issue
00:34:38
theoretically I say theoretically because it that's that that stone is still yet to be overturned on that topic
00:34:44
so I think that they missed the mark and I think the the part of the press that people glommed on to was it
00:34:51
was happening inside of a company in real time and there was video of it mission accomplished for them we're
00:34:57
talking about here as the top story and uh you know if that was there if they wanted to raise awareness they succeeded
00:35:04
and they should just own their firing because they knew they would get fired I think all right there has been a ton of
00:35:10
chaos and the culture wars continue over NPR couple things happened simultaneously this week that are worth
00:35:17
discussing Katherine Mah was named NPR's new CEO back in January I'm gonna have to give a little bit of a timeline here
00:35:23
before I get comments from the boys because there's a little setup and so she was named the the um CEO back
00:35:31
in January she officially started in March okay she formerly worked at Wikipedia Foundation those are the
00:35:36
people who run the Wikipedia obviously NPR's Mission if you don't know is to create a more informed public one
00:35:44
challenged and invigorated by a deeper understanding and appreciation of events ideas and culture that's their state ad
00:35:49
Mission from their website on April 9th Erie Berliner an editor who's been with NPR for 25 years wrote an oped for bar
00:35:58
bar Weiss's Free Press friend of the Pod explaining how NPR lost America's trust
00:36:02
by going hard left and becoming close-minded he said quote an open-minded Spirit no longer exists
00:36:08
within NPR and now predictably we don't have an audience that reflects America last Friday Mah put out a statement
00:36:16
calling his actions profoundly disrespectful hurtful and demeaning this Sunday uh conservative activist
00:36:22
Christopher rufo he's uh the person who exposed former Harvard president's Claud and gay
00:36:29
plagiarism he's a focal critic of lgbtq uh stuff at schools started reposting old tweets from Mah this new CEO her
00:36:37
tweets are super far left Trump's a racist yada yada there's an interesting clip of her talking at Ted talking about
00:36:45
how truth is a bit of a distraction that prevents people from getting things done
00:36:50
people have gotten pretty inflamed about that clip and then on April 16 Berlin was suspended for 5 days without pay
00:37:00
wrapping this all up Berliner then resigned after 25 years saying quote I cannot work in a newsroom where I am
00:37:07
disparaged by a new CEO whose divisive views confirm the very problems at NPR I site in My Free Press essay Sach your
00:37:17
thoughts I mean this just seems like a dog bites man Story I mean what is the novel Revelation here uh the person
00:37:24
running NPR is a liberal I mean I'm I'm kind of with you but what took 25 years to resign I mean all you have to do is
00:37:31
listen to NPR it's always been liberal okay this is not some recent capture of an insti why it going so crazy viral
00:37:39
right now why is this become the topic of the moment well apparently there are some
00:37:44
quotes that this um new CEO Katherine Mar tweeted or said that you can point to that seem kind of woke and kind of
00:37:55
crazy woke but they're just actually pretty standard I just don't see the breaking news here if they end up firing
00:38:02
Katherine Mah they're going to hire someone just like her I mean they're going to have the same views NPR has
00:38:07
always been left of center and the only change that's happened is that the left has now become woe yeah and so it's
00:38:16
become obsessively focused with the ideas of white supremacy and and and white privilege and she simply she
00:38:24
simply reflects that I I agree I it's like a tempest and a like news flash NBR is woke and left leaning I mean I guess
00:38:33
maybe that somebody who was there for 25 years wrote the expose is interesting or
00:38:38
I don't know jamat any thoughts on this one and why it's taking up so much heads
00:38:42
space for people I don't think it is I think it's taking up a lot of headp space amongst breathless journalists I
00:38:48
don't think it matters to the public at large I don't think anybody cares I said
00:38:51
one thing which is I do think that the government should not be funding this anymore I think NPR at this point is
00:38:57
mostly funded by private donations but it got started with government money and the government still funds it and given
00:39:04
that it is this left institution at this point and and really always has been there's simply no reason for the
00:39:11
government to be funding one side of the political debate that way so I think there is maybe an issue there in terms
00:39:18
of reminding people that hey this is like government funded why and there's no reason why NPR can't be funded with
00:39:26
either private donations or private subscription this is uh just to give people some back of the envelope
00:39:31
math NPR's budget is like 320 million it's a dollar per American and they get a bunch of programming fees and some
00:39:39
corporate sponsorship the corporate sponsorship is like a 100 million bucks the programming fees is what the local
00:39:44
radio stations play them net net this is costing like maybe I don't know 30 cents
00:39:50
an American and if you just swap out and this is the way I like to look at these
00:39:54
to be objective if you were saying this was funding Fox News or I don't know Ben
00:39:58
Shapiro and Del wire how would you feel about it you'd be like well why is the government funding that they should just
00:40:03
cut NPR and all this public broadcasting stuff loose over the next year or two wind it down and let them fend for
00:40:10
themselves in the New Media landscape look J I agree with you they could easily substack it NPR's not going to go
00:40:14
away just create subscriptions and you're fine yeah I mean it's only like they're down to whatever it's it's it's
00:40:20
very hard to find the numbers there's a little like hiding of the money here but
00:40:24
there's so little at stake here I think that's why it's so contentious no government should not be funding
00:40:28
one-sided ideological institutions on either side of the political debate and you're right if this was funding going
00:40:35
to daily wire or something like that people would be up in arms so at any event what's good for the good for the
00:40:41
gander the next Tempest in a teapot is Humane AI pin getting barbecued by our modernday W Mossberg Marquez brownley
00:40:51
who is an awesome YouTuber I love his reviews and it's created a bit of a social media raw shck test here
00:40:57
getting a lot of feels from people in Silicon Valley let's just tee this up here Humane is a hardware startup uh
00:41:03
that you may have heard of they make an AI powered wearable computer it's basically a pin you put on your chest
00:41:08
it's about the size of a pack of cigarettes maybe half the size of it founded by two apple exec back in 2018
00:41:15
raised a quarter of a billion dollars or so and um the device is now in the hands
00:41:21
of reviewers it's pretty Innovative and Marquez talks about how Innovative it is
00:41:26
in his review it will uh let you talk to it it's got a camera on it we'll show it
00:41:31
here on the screen if you're not subscribed uh to the YouTube channel just go to YouTube right now and you'll
00:41:35
see us playing the video of it search for Allin and um really interesting interface it does obviously voice it
00:41:43
connects you to an llm on the back end so if you want to know uh you know some piece of information it can answer those
00:41:49
questions for you but Marquez showed it just absolutely failing at a bunch of tests being overpriced
00:41:58
and he called it the worst product he's ever reviewed he's very thoughtful and methodical but
00:42:05
the title is obviously a bit link baiting as a co-founder of Eng gagger I can tell you if you want to get a lot of
00:42:11
clicks just say something is the best or the worst ever and you're GNA get 10 times the
00:42:17
views the pin uh according to him uh doesn't do anything better than a smartphone it's slow it doesn't work
00:42:25
it's often wrong it's 00 bucks the battery sucks so many different ways to go with this everybody is talking about
00:42:33
it on X and uh in the media where where do you stand on this one freedberg both on how people are
00:42:43
responding to it in the tech industry as being like anti-tech anti- Innovation versus hey it's just a reviewer giving
00:42:50
his candid feedback on a product that's clearly not ready for prime time I think
00:42:55
there's a lot of issues one is just the challenge of deep Tech more specifically
00:43:02
in this case Hardware investing you have to invest a lot of capital before you even have your first product and then
00:43:09
you don't really know how well it works until you've already burned through a lot of capital I mean this is one of the
00:43:14
stunning stories of a startup that has raised a quarter billion dollars and then they come out with their first
00:43:20
product and it turns out it needs a lot of work because it doesn't do anything that consumers really are compelled by
00:43:27
as evidenced by the review so I think it it highlights that that challenge and why that market finds
00:43:36
particularly in this environment it to be so hard to get capitalized now obviously there are some entrepreneurs
00:43:42
like Elon who can take that capital and drive to the outcome spending hundreds of millions of dollars before you get
00:43:51
your first rocket into space and you have a lot of failings along the way but the general tone of here is a
00:43:59
deep Tech investment is very likely to fail because you spend so much money before you even know and at that point
00:44:05
you have less money and you can't really make the necessary iteration to get there so it's a tough data point for
00:44:12
other deep tech companies that need to raise a lot of capital then I think it brings up the point about X Apple people
00:44:19
that there's a degree of confidence because people come from apple and a degree of hubris in the employees that
00:44:25
come from Apple that says I have worked at the best hardware company in the world therefore this person is likely to
00:44:31
succeed it turns out that when you don't have all that built-in infrastructure for testing and optimization all of that
00:44:37
built-in distribution all of the feedback systems that Apple has engineered into their business model for
00:44:43
so long maybe you missed some of the data around what makes a product great or not before you launch I think that's
00:44:48
your key point freeberg that is the best point is these folks come from Apple they're used to unlimited
00:44:54
resources and what you don't see is all the product Apple doesn't release right they never release their car correct
00:45:01
freedberg and and they get to well I think I think then there's also this question about like where is the value
00:45:06
in the product because they thought hey if we have ai on a pin it'll work without the consumer feedback about
00:45:14
whether or not people are willing to sit around and wait for 12 seconds to get an
00:45:18
answer to a question and then it it brings up the risk this other really important point which is half the people
00:45:23
in Silicon Valley are running breathlessly into the conversation saying do not disparage a startup that's
00:45:28
working really hard at getting their first product right it'll destroy the motivation of other startups that need
00:45:33
to kind of iterate to get there um and we can't just take the first V1 and say that's it Jam your thoughts you're
00:45:41
laughing hysterical at this then the the other half of Silicon Valley are running
00:45:44
in and saying this thing's a piece of what are you talking about it doesn't work so it is a really
00:45:49
interesting kind of you know debate yeah Ro shock test on what's going on what do
00:45:55
you see in this ink blot of a product neither of those two cohorts I think that incredibly motivated dedicated
00:46:04
entrepreneurs don't even know that this is happening and don't care got it in other words the reviewers uh are going
00:46:11
to review products and you just got to plow ahead and make a better product the idea that in 2009 10 or 11 right
00:46:20
that when all the Rockets weren't working you know and Elon was back against the wall that he was reading
00:46:27
Tech crunch or yeah getting upset because a product failed some other random product that had nothing to do
00:46:33
with his I think is laughable I think no great entrepreneur cares I don't think freeberg is g to change what's happening
00:46:40
at oh Hollow based on what is this thing called Humane right freeberg have you changed have you made decisions are you
00:46:48
sadder today in ohala when you walked into the office to manage your team okay so there you go there's your answer
00:46:54
matters your feeling on this yeah I mean I'm having a hard understanding all the
00:46:58
controversies this week I mean reviewers are going to review protesters are going
00:47:02
to protest and NPR presidents are going to NPR here we go yeah what's going on everyone's just doing everyone's doing
00:47:09
their job yeah here's an idea for the Humane team be thankful somebody took the time to review your product and give
00:47:15
you candid feedback and incorporate it back into your product and make it work and irreverent elitists will eat octopus
00:47:23
here we are absolutely oh so delicious so delicious high IQ Foods we create a new category high IQ Foods yeah what are
00:47:29
the other high IQ foodsweet acorn fed beef yes for sure high IQ pigs very high IQ I saw that cow playing chess before
00:47:39
he was served for dinner actually I was having a p pork sandwich from bies and uh it helped me solve Wordle for the day
00:47:48
before I ate it so I got Wordle in two tries oh I'm so sorry that one landed want that wi to
00:47:59
land yeah I mean okay let me ask this question do we think the world let's say this thing did respond here's the theme
00:48:06
here's the theme Jason here's the theme Jason the problem is that I think people
00:48:11
right now the real Roar Shack test is if you are so easily distracted you probably don't have enough to do right
00:48:19
that's the entitlement is that you don't have enough work on I don't want to call
00:48:22
it I don't want to call it entitlement but I think the reality is that if you get caught up in all of these silly
00:48:28
little fake battles or decisions I think what it really means is that you're not
00:48:33
busy enough and or you're not working on something that matters enough to you because when either of those two things
00:48:38
are true people tend to be tend to have blinders on and they are super focused and they just don't have an opinion they
00:48:45
don't care like honestly many of these topics today I really don't care and it's not because I'm better or worse or
00:48:51
smarter or Dumber it's because I'm so overworked right now I don't have time to have an opinion on this stuff got a
00:48:57
CEO job and now he's got to work no but and I think that anybody else trying to do their job well is probably in the
00:49:02
same category H I hadn't even heard of this reviewer what's his name mar mar mar Marquez brownz Brown I never heard
00:49:11
if you're on YouTube he's kind of like the new Walt Mossberg he he does 20 30 minute videos they get millions of views
00:49:19
he's huge I don't know that he makes or breaks a product though by the way he does not make or break a product the
00:49:24
product makes or breaks itself yeah look when when I was running companies I wouldn't care about what One reviewer
00:49:30
said I would care about the totality of the reaction to the product which would include customers as well as reviewers
00:49:37
and so forth so I don't think there's any point getting too bad out of shape out one review I think what's kind of
00:49:43
happening in terms of the reaction here is that people want to give this company
00:49:49
like Mercy points for being Innovative so my guess is the product just isn't ready for prime time but everyone wants
00:49:55
to kind of like they want their reviewers to take it easy on them or something because they are being
00:50:00
Innovative and they're breaking new ground in this this area of wearables but the reality is in the real world
00:50:07
where you want to charge people for your product like customers don't have mercy
00:50:11
points nope so if the car breaks down the car breaks down and by the way Marquez got a little bit of heat just a
00:50:18
month ago because he reviewed the Fisker the Fisker is just a piece of garbage car and he said it's the worst car he's
00:50:24
ever reviewed and you know what reviewers exist in the world to inform customers about what products and
00:50:31
services they should buy and then they should inform you to make a better product period full stop there is an
00:50:36
easy solution to this by the way which Apple did they they released the Vision Pro as a developer kit they put a bunch
00:50:44
of caveats on it and said hey we understand this is high priced it's a developer kit this is in beta what
00:50:50
Humane should have done is they should have said this is the Humane beta for developers I still don't know what it is
00:50:56
what what is this okay it's a wearable it's a square it has a projector on it you put your hand out it projects a
00:51:03
little screen that shows you uh like a computer screen and you can talk to it Prim yeah the primary function is like a
00:51:10
chat AI assistant that sits on you and has a camera yeah and so you can it's taping everything that it sees it
00:51:18
doesn't do that by default but it could but sorry let me let me just give a quick overview and basically you ask it
00:51:23
questions and it can go get the answers the problem is is that it has to go make
00:51:28
a request to the Internet run an AI model and come back so it takes like 12 seconds to get results most of the time
00:51:35
according to the reviewer the results are actually wrong because it's hallucinating models The Voice to Text
00:51:40
translation is wrong there's a lot of things that are wrong about it so it takes a long time it's clunky and then
00:51:45
the battery burns out every two hours and it gets super hot because of the way they get it to magnetically stick to
00:51:50
your clothes so it gets very hot so there's all sort of issue and it's 700 bucks other than that how was to play
00:51:57
Mrs Lincoln and by the way most importantly to you chth it will screw up your Fabrics if you wear this with a
00:52:02
Laura Piana sweater it's going to drag your sweater down you would never attach it to a $6,000
00:52:08
sweater yeah it's basically what you're telling me is it's an overpriced device that could give you first-degree Burns
00:52:16
and it will ruin your it doesn't answer the questions that you ask Bas but then do I think the questions or do I have to
00:52:23
say it out loud so it looks like I'm talking to myself you look like aun yes you're walking around like a crazy
00:52:28
person talking that was the other thing he said is like when you're in a crowd and there's voice around you can use
00:52:33
your hand hand gestures to control it and do things with the projector thing that it does some really it's some
00:52:39
really cool interesting features it's just like it's not quite there yet who invested in it let's not make fun of it
00:52:44
let's make fun of the investors who who invested Sam mman shout out to Sam's coming on the program I
00:52:51
think uh yeah I listen I I the concept I think is good wearables are going to provide some distinct value when they
00:52:58
work because you don't have to take your phone out and so the idea behind wearables like your watch is you know
00:53:05
like there are some things I do on my watch now where I don't take my phone out I have I'll take the other side of
00:53:10
this I'll take the other side when you're done yeah yeah I use Fitbit company we invested in and it puts all
00:53:15
my workouts on my watch when I'm doing weights I started doing weights now that's why I look so buff folks
00:53:20
subscribe to the YouTube channel to see and I do my sets and I log them all with
00:53:24
my my watch I don't have to take my out that's like the first thing and then when I'm skiing I can see each run I
00:53:30
showed you slopes I'm not an investor in chth where I can see my speed and all that you're saying something totally
00:53:35
different that's that's utility of course you'll find a device will give you utility I I thought you were saying
00:53:41
something else which is everybody's going to have wearables and I want to take the exact opposite side yeah I
00:53:47
don't know that everybody will have wearables but I do find a couple of little things that work for me I totally
00:53:52
get that you know the use of an accelerometer or whatever in a watch or in a band that you wear on your wrist
00:53:57
for a workout and I think that that's valuable or heart rate a glycemic monitor so that you could all of that
00:54:03
stuff Mak super sense for you as an individual but that's not an experience where you're engaging with it
00:54:11
to sub like to replace some other social interaction that's just you getting utility as you live your life what I'm
00:54:17
saying is the idea that you start to rely on a device as your interface into the world I would take the exact other
00:54:25
side of the BET which is I think that humans are getting so sick and tired of being of only communicating in these
00:54:34
very rigid ways like I'm telling you like if you look at our children's generation they don't know how to make
00:54:40
eye contact they don't know how to talk and I think it's going to come back and bite them in the ass and so I think the
00:54:45
pendulum is going to swing in the other direction where it's like okay enough of
00:54:49
this stuff let's actually look each other in the eye and talk to each other the way that humans were meant to be and
00:54:54
I and I think that in that devices like a glucose monitor or a band has value but I don't think it's going to be this
00:55:01
interface where you're sign languaging it while you're at Coachella I think you're gonna rip the devices off and
00:55:06
actually be a Coachella without any devices did any of you guys read Jonathan haes book anxious generation it
00:55:12
is unbelievably awesome it touches not right yet yet I stop what you're doing and just listen to the audio book on
00:55:18
your walks on Audible this book is super important and awesome the anxious Generation by Jonathan ha I cannot tell
00:55:24
you how important it is saxs any closing feelings here you have a take any hot takes well I I would slightly disagree
00:55:31
with you guys about this device so so first of all I think that humans are becoming more and more cybernetic we're
00:55:37
getting more and more immersed with computing power and I agree it creates this anxiety and all these problems but
00:55:42
on the other hand I think it's an irreversible Trend so I think that I would not bet against things that make
00:55:48
us more cybernetic I think the problem here is that this company is trying to do two difficult things the first thing
00:55:55
is it's trying to capture everything that's happening in the world around you to feed it into an AI model so it can
00:56:00
make you smarter the other thing is trying to do is reduce your dependence on your phone by creating this new
00:56:07
projection surface and you know in my experience when you try to do two hard things you actually Square the
00:56:14
complexity and you square the difficulty as opposed to adding it yes so I think of these two things the one that sounds
00:56:20
interesting to me is taking in all the information from the physical world and putting in an AI model that can be
00:56:25
helpful to you you but I see no reason to replace the phone I think it should just work with your phone the problem
00:56:31
they're going to have is that that pendant will compete with the Apple glasses and all the other wearables that
00:56:38
are going to be created to you know suck in all this information this computer vision from the world nonetheless I do
00:56:45
think that is the opportunity it's not replacing the phone it's layering a new platform on top of the phone that can
00:56:51
kind of you know again give you that Terminator mode in the real world and that was a complaint about this device
00:56:57
specifically was that it was detached from the phone I understand why they want to make it Standalone but and then
00:57:03
this opens up all the Privacy let me ask the panel here what do you think about this concept of recording the entire
00:57:09
world all these conversations and video with these devices I think it's a quick way to get yourself punched in the face
00:57:15
I mean we saw that with Google Glass people showed up at bars in San Francisco and parties with these Google
00:57:20
Glass things on and literally got punched in the face well this has got massive privacy things recording
00:57:27
with a pant thank this is why I said what I said I do think sax is right that ultimately you'll have some kind of
00:57:33
brain interface because I do think a chip implant of some kind is very valuable but what I'm also saying is
00:57:40
that I think that that will actually lessen the social acceptability of these visible devices that are constantly
00:57:48
getting in between you and another person and so the idea that we're kind of already in a quasy surveillance State
00:57:54
and now we're going to increase that by n factorial to the number of people I think is very depressing it is
00:58:02
depressing and you know what in Jonathan hates book he uh talks about phone lockers for schools and the
00:58:08
transformative power they have had when you go to a school there are some schools now high schools where the
00:58:13
students put their phones in specific lockers they do it they do it in my kids it's it's actually Jason these special
00:58:19
pouches pouches yeah those are the pouches comedians use like Chappelle at his shows Chappelle use it Kevin uses
00:58:25
them yeah exactly and they're great and then what what the school now also teaches the kids at least our
00:58:31
school which I found really interesting is the graduated form of that is they actually now allow you to put it in a
00:58:38
envelope because they're training the kid like the pouch you can't get access to you have to go back to it locks
00:58:44
unlock device yeah and then I I saw that my son last week had it actually in a in
00:58:49
a white envelope and he had to close the envelope and just keep it with him as as
00:58:53
like a way of graduating from the form of keeping the phone away to like you know having it in your pocket so the
00:59:00
schools are trying to do a lot to try to teach these kids not to be so dependent
00:59:03
on they should ban these devices at schools 100% And then at the poker game tonight we should make people stack
00:59:08
their phones and charge somebody a thousand dollar whoever takes the phone first I AG with that let's do it tonight
00:59:13
let me let me give a a shout out to one of my favorite sci-fi book series is called Nexus by romez Nom and it's kind
00:59:19
of this like cyberpunk futuristic series but what he talks about is it when we have this
00:59:25
brain computer interface you'll be able to upload your memories and so you know you talk about this idea of recording
00:59:32
your whole life through a pendant well eventually You' be able to record your whole life based on just through your
00:59:37
eyeballs and you know you'd be able to upload in theory a firstperson view of whatever conversation you've been in you
00:59:46
know and so there's a certain you look this is pretty far off but there is maybe a certain inevitability to that
00:59:53
and um we're going to have to figure out how to deal with the Privacy implications Black Mirror episode on
00:59:57
this exact idea yep yeah you have the DVR of your entire life yeah and it is gnarly to think these things will exist
01:00:04
and I think humanity is going to have to make a decision I think to fight this or
01:00:07
embrace it I I think we should fight it I think it's going to ruin uh like social and existence and it's already
01:00:13
ruined poker Games Etc when everybody's on their phone it's ruined dinner parties when everybody's on their phones
01:00:18
the constant distraction is just horrific and it's having a horrible impact on this generation I'll double
01:00:23
down on what you're saying it is so lovely to be ble to have a dinner where everybody just talks to each other and
01:00:28
looks each other in the eyes yes and then when you have a handful of people always on their phone it's depressing
01:00:35
it's actually it's actually not even neutral it's a net negative and a drag on the entire night absolutely I I I am
01:00:42
trying to come up with ways to remove these devices from the social settings I'm in I've been to a couple of parties
01:00:47
with high-profile people where they have everybody check their phones at the Valle and the door I got to say those
01:00:53
are the best nights of my life those are the best nights yeah they're incredible
01:00:56
and you know no offense to people who are addicted to their phones I I am to a certain extent I put my social media at
01:01:01
1 hour on my phone my Lord it is hard to do less than an hour of social media in
01:01:06
our job positions and you know I deleted Tik Tok about a month ago it's been liberating I was a slave
01:01:15
to that app I couldn't believe how much how much Tik Tok I was consuming after it was gone because I couldn't I
01:01:21
couldn't find anything to replace it and then I stumbled into the fact that YouTube has YouTube shorts and there is
01:01:27
a lot of that content but it's terrible and the algorithm is really bad yeah sucks and so fortunately I just stopped
01:01:33
using YouTube it just shows you how the algorithm is such a key component of that Tik Tock experience because I had
01:01:40
the same experience shorts serves up garbage garbage Instagram show serves up garbage and then Tik Tok is just like
01:01:48
right into your brain kicks ass it kicks ass by the way I'm G give another shout
01:01:53
I miss Tik Tok Tik Tok I miss you yeah whatever it's that's going away I miss you another Incredible Book I think we
01:01:59
should book this speaker for Allin Summit bad therapy why the kids aren't growing up Abigail shrier this book is
01:02:08
incredible and if you read these two book every parent read these two books and we need to have a conversation on it
01:02:14
as parents here everybody read these two books these two these are my two top choices for the all in Summit I think
01:02:20
it's like the going to be the the topic of our time all right let's keep going down this incredible pocket very
01:02:26
important issue for us to talk about Silicon Valley startups having a bit of a R&D tax problem thanks for putting it
01:02:33
on the docket here freeberg it's a bit inside baseball but very important topic let's say company like acne Corporation
01:02:40
generated a million bucks in revenue and they spent a million bucks on their software developers last year let's say
01:02:45
they had I don't know five developers getting paid 200 Grand each well traditionally this company would pay
01:02:49
nothing in income tax right they spent a million they deduct that million from the million dollars in Revenue that came
01:02:55
in and everything's good but due to the tax cuts and jobs Act of 2017 starting last year a provision
01:03:04
kicked in forcing companies to advertise their R&D expense over five years so in
01:03:09
this hypothetical situation the Acme Corporation would advertise 200k a year and pay income tax on the 800k in
01:03:16
profits this is brutal obviously St quotes profits air quotes air quotes profits correct yeah uh and this is
01:03:23
absolutely brutal and a lot of companies took a wency approaches hoping Congress would
01:03:28
fix the issue in January a bipartisan tax bill that would reverse his changes passed in the house but the bill has
01:03:34
stalled in the Senate and we got to get this thing fixed because it's going to sync a lot of startups maybe people will
01:03:39
start putting their companies in other countries but uh it's attached to this child tax credit which Republicans don't
01:03:46
want to pass so of no reversal has happened freeberg you highlighted this for us very important topic thank you
01:03:51
for doing so as uh our great contributor here what are your thoughts on it this became law in the 2017 jobs
01:04:02
act as you highlighted and basically it means that companies not just like tech companies
01:04:08
but life sciences companies defense companies are pushing Congress to change this law because you can't actually
01:04:16
deduct the expenses that you use to run your business you have to only deduct them over five years 20% a year so like
01:04:24
you pointed out if you're making a a million dollars but you're spending a million dollars you made no profit but
01:04:28
you got to pay taxes as if you made 800 Grand in profit and a lot of these small
01:04:33
companies don't have that cash so Venture Capital back companies and public companies that are profitable
01:04:39
they can afford to do this because they have large balance sheets so it doesn't affect them as much as it does the
01:04:44
literally hundreds of thousands of small businesses that work in the Life Sciences sector the defense sector the
01:04:50
tech sector that are struggling this year to make the tax payments that are required
01:04:56
under this this law that went into effect last year and Congress promised that they were going to repeal this law
01:05:02
leading up to April 15th which happened obviously a few days ago um and make it retroactive to 2023 but they didn't but
01:05:09
freeberg they know basic math Congress knows basic math how do they how do they what do
01:05:15
they yeah so the the original intent was that this was one of the ways you guys know whenever you pass a bill it gets
01:05:22
run through the OM and the CBO that figures out what's the budgetary cost of the bill yeah and one of the ways that
01:05:28
they made this work this bill the 2017 Trump tax and jobs act you guys may remember in that bill they also made it
01:05:34
impossible to deduct entertainment and dining expenses when you take people out to dinner anymore that sucks and they
01:05:40
did all those things to make up some of the money they were using for basic general tax breaks for companies so they
01:05:47
Ed this as a way to say like look in a couple of years we're going to kick in this R&D expenditure thing and it'll
01:05:52
trigger a lot more revenue for the federal government it'll create a lot more taxes and a lot more Revenue so
01:05:57
that was the idea and everyone was like yeah okay sure we'll do that great it makes the accounting work and then in a
01:06:02
couple years you know nudge nudge wink wink we're going to come back and repeal it except Congress has stalled out
01:06:08
there's this ineptitude where anytime someone tries to pass a bill in Congress someone else says I want to get money
01:06:15
and so the Democrats showed up and said we want this child tax credit thing to show up which
01:06:20
basically was passed during Co and they want to extend it going for and the child tax credit says that you can get a
01:06:28
check for 1,800 a year in 2023 1900 in 2024 and $2,000 in 2025 for having for each child you have and the Republicans
01:06:37
in the Senate are saying wait a second for people to get this thing we want to make sure they're working we want to
01:06:42
make sure it's not as retroactive so now there's this big debate about how big the child tax credit should be and
01:06:47
that's keeping this R&D thing from going through and meanwhile I've gotten tons of emails from CEOs of tech companies
01:06:54
that are breaking these are not tech companies that are making a ton of profit they're not public they're not
01:06:59
Venture backed they're just people running running their their business and now they're gonna have this huge tax
01:07:05
bill even though they didn't make any money this year and it's crippling businesses around the country and
01:07:10
need they're going to write a check they're going to borrow money they're going to go to the bank borrow money or
01:07:15
they're going to incur penalties with the IRS because they don't have the cash to pay the the tax bill because they
01:07:19
don't have any profit they didn't make any money if they just ran the business Break Even which a lot of these
01:07:23
companies do is just make a little bit of money break even and then they've got this huge tax bill and profits they
01:07:28
didn't actually have they got to go figure out how to write a check and also how do you define R&D I was talking to
01:07:33
an accountant he's like yeah I don't know if that's R&D I'm like you don't know it's R&D like okay so if I make
01:07:38
some piece of software yeah yeah there's all this writing in the um if you get audited by the IRS they have the ability
01:07:46
to basically capture everything so like let's say you're a mobile app developer and you make a million dollars a year
01:07:51
but you spend a million dollars a year on your developers okay they're going to count that they have the the ability to
01:07:57
count that as an R&D so that the accountants the tax accountants tell you book it all as R&D because otherwise you
01:08:02
could get audited and actually get in trouble because anything that involves the development of Technology now is
01:08:07
considered R&D again a company working in life sciences as a research company doing lab work can but I do bug fixes is
01:08:15
a bug fix R&D if I make a new feature in application this year does it have to be
01:08:20
advertised over five years if I put a new filter I'm not a tax my understanding is most of the stuff is
01:08:26
getting captured and that's why it's hurting everything from defense to to to Life Sciences to lab equipment to
01:08:32
startups that software to everything and Congress can't get out of its own way where this this bill passed by the way
01:08:39
bipartisan in the house then it went to the Senate and now it's getting taken apart in the Senate and now it's stalled
01:08:44
out and everyone's freaking out that it's stalled out past April 15th and it's actually going to hurt a lot of
01:08:49
small businesses in this country and here's the other problem is it actually limits our ability to invest in
01:08:55
innovation in this country because now you're better off there's no other country in the world that does this
01:09:00
every other country in the world tries to incentivize investment in Innovation and here in the US we're basically
01:09:06
saying no we're going to tax you for investing in technology development and Innovation and the other thing that's
01:09:13
that's actually not being talked about is even in this bill where they're repealing this they're leaving in the
01:09:20
fact that if you invest in R&D outside the US you have to amortise it over 50 years so let's say that you're a US
01:09:27
developer and you hire people offshore yeah you got to basically amortise the offshore stuff over 15 years which means
01:09:34
you'll never make a profit you're always gonna have to pay taxes how we're trying
01:09:38
to kill innovation in this country and the two things they got to solve is this one and then m&a we got to have a better
01:09:46
solution for allowing companies to be bought and sold in this or or merge in this country these two things are
01:09:53
putting a lot of headwind on the startup ecosystem and on the Venture and the risk-taking capital
01:10:00
ecosystems if you're in Washington DC you're involved in our government please solve these two issues
01:10:07
you got to figure out a way to allow companies to be bought and sold you got to figure out
01:10:12
away to to fix this tax issue or else we're going to kill a lot of startups and these are the companies that pay a
01:10:19
lot of taxes and these are the capital gains that fund a lot of state's treasuries it's also it also an
01:10:25
illustration of just how hungry we are for tax revenue in this country you know it's only going to grow and I'm not
01:10:31
sitting here complaining about taxes you know the Trump tax cut that he put in place in 2017 added one and a half
01:10:37
trillion dollars to the federal deficit so tax cuts in general are not great when you're spending a lot but it does
01:10:44
highlight just how much we are spending at the federal level and the demand for tax revenue and that demand causes this
01:10:51
counter cyclical problem which is now we're going to eat into Innovation which is supposed to drive get us out of the
01:10:56
problem the spiral that that results from this debt so it really highlights like just the challenges that are going
01:11:02
to emerge particularly in the decade ahead because we have all of the spending that's coming in front of us
01:11:07
over the next decade and how we're going to start to demand more and more tax in
01:11:10
all these weird ways that can really hurt industry unintended consequences are very
01:11:16
real shath you were gonna say something well doesn't it mean though that if you run it at break even and without a lot
01:11:24
of growth by year five you'll be back to where you were so you really have to cover the taxes in years one through
01:11:30
four that's right if the business but if the business is growing you're always going to be in a
01:11:34
hole right right so if your revenue is growing and your Opex is growing you're always going to be in a hole I think
01:11:40
Jason mentioned it earlier and I think it's the key thing which is what is R&D then yeah and maybe you just move things
01:11:47
to cogs and just be done with it I remember businesses and and you guys know this like when you look at a public
01:11:54
company's financials what you're seeing is their Gap financials generally accepted accounting principles and
01:12:01
that's the way that you present the financials of a business that's different than the way you present
01:12:05
financials to the IRS you don't have a lot of discretion in your tax financials your tax financials are actually quite
01:12:12
different than your Gap financials yes so when you file your taxes there's a lot of rules on what you are allowed to
01:12:18
deduct and aren't allow to deduct that's quite different than how you present your corporate financials to investors
01:12:23
and that's really where people get screwed is you don't have that sort of discretion that you do in kind of
01:12:28
sharing your financials with investors so this is not Financial or accounting advice get great representation I just
01:12:34
hope Congress resolves this because it's you know yes super important all right sports betting has gone mainstream if
01:12:39
you don't know two out of three College have placed a bet in the last year since
01:12:44
the Supreme Court struck down the amateur sports protection act 38 states have legalize sports betting I think
01:12:50
that's a great thing but we're starting to see some weird Behavior because of it
01:12:54
t of sites like DraftKings FanDuel ESPN bet b MGM all of these have broken out but this week we started to see some
01:13:03
weird Behavior the NBA banned a 24y old player jonte Porter for life after a scandal this one is bizarre an
01:13:13
interesting Porter was Bench player for the Toronto Raptors averaging about 14 minutes per game it's important on these
01:13:20
gambling apps you can do all kinds of prop bets for those of you who don't know prop bets could be things like like
01:13:25
uh Steph is going to hit five threes in a game or LeBron's going to score under 30 points you're just betting on unique
01:13:32
things that could happen and then you can parlay them together you can put multiple bets together and it
01:13:36
automatically gives you a price and you can do really you know deep Wagers doing
01:13:43
this the NBA found out that Porto was telling people to bet his unders for points and rebounds During certain games
01:13:50
during those games he'd play a few minutes then check him out s out of the game Within illness quote unquote
01:13:57
technically the bet would still count since he played the game but everybody who bet his unders would win normally
01:14:02
nobody would notice this of course because he doesn't play that much he's a bench player but DraftKings because they
01:14:08
have all the data tipped everyone off because Porter was the biggest money maker on March
01:14:16
20th this led to an NBA investigation Draft Kings will give you a leaderboard of the biggest bets and they saw that
01:14:22
somebody placed an $80,000 bet that Porter would hit the on a bunch of different categories crazy outlier bet
01:14:28
DraftKings canceled the bet the NBA found that Porter separately placed dozens of bets on NBA games using his
01:14:35
friends accounts winning a whopping $222,000 and this idiot now is banned for life from the NBA allegedly
01:14:43
allegedly allegedly but obviously the NBA has the receipts with DraftKings chath you owned a NBA team for a little
01:14:53
while and you watched as David for aade you watch as David Stern who was absolutely opposed to gambling and
01:15:02
then Adam Sil embraced it tell us from your front row seat your thoughts on wagering in the
01:15:08
NBA and wagering RIT large okay look I remember when I joined the ownership group of the
01:15:19
Warriors I had to file this enormous document and one of the things that they really into is whether you've bet
01:15:28
before and they make it really really clear that it is completely not allowed to bet and the only way that you can bet
01:15:38
is if you're betting on non-basketball and if you are in Vegas and you go to a casino and a troop sports book that's
01:15:43
the only time it's tolerated the thing with all of these sites FanDuel and DraftKings is they did deals with the
01:15:51
leagues where part of the feature is that when there really crazy asymmetric betting on something that's obscure they
01:15:59
report it back to the leagues so the leagues know how to look at it because typically what happens is if you're
01:16:04
talking like a very well-contested basketball Jason you have a relatively balanced book right and what the the
01:16:13
goal is is to figure out where are the sharps betting meaning the really smart money guys and everybody else is a
01:16:18
square and most of retail is a square okay they're going to lose their money and so the goal is to always find out
01:16:23
where the sharps are going but there are some of these bets and in this case this
01:16:27
is why they found out when you have something being bet that's very obscure in size these apps immediately go back
01:16:35
to the league and say this just happened so compare that to chth what would happen previously before sports betting
01:16:42
was legal in the US before what would happen is like all of these bookies would be able to have relationships with
01:16:49
some of these players sometimes they would also have relationships with some of the refs and it has SP over so the
01:16:55
NBA has had to deal with an example where one of the refs were I think he was betting on some games Don Tim Don
01:17:02
and then he was Point shaving so this has been going on for a long time it moved into the realm of it being
01:17:09
automated with algorithms looking out the fact that this kid didn't have anybody on his team that explained that
01:17:18
DraftKings and FanDuel are going to send this data to the NBA is inexcusable because maybe the kid would not have
01:17:25
done it right do you agree with the lifetime ban or do you think there should be yeah yeah it has to be
01:17:29
lifetime has to be for the NBA to have integrity has yeah yeah it's really uh and and what do we think about this
01:17:38
becoming legal in the US and people the other thing I'll say well the other thing I'll say and I and I mentioned
01:17:43
this a few weeks ago everything is being gamified you have an entire population that seemingly
01:17:52
in America consumer spending still goes up folks are relatively still flush with
01:17:57
cash there's lots of free cash flow there are new and more aggressive forms of stimulus
01:18:05
constantly coming down the pike whether it's student loan forgiveness or something else right governments are
01:18:10
inventing new and new ways of buying votes that's going to put more and more money in people's hands that means a
01:18:16
larger and larger percentage of it will bleed into these kinds of things and it's not just Sports gambling there was
01:18:21
an article in the Wall Street Journal about this woman who's a well-respected lawyer who became totally addicted
01:18:27
playing like a bingo app right and lost her entire life so these forms of gambling and addiction are just going to
01:18:34
Skyrocket I think because you have these apps that are really incredibly well- engineered to get you super hooked and
01:18:43
then the adrenaline rush and the dopamine Rush of actually winning money is a thing that for some people they
01:18:49
can't turn off once they feel it for the first time we know some of those people
01:18:52
and you know it's it's hard for them to control their sports betting Blackjack playing other things they just they get
01:18:59
too into it they get too into it they get just and you know but other societies other GEOS Australia New
01:19:06
Zealand and the UK they've had this for a while so they figured out how to deal with this this is what I'm going to tell
01:19:11
you the last thing I'll say on this is when I was in high school so in the early 90s in Ontario in Canada they
01:19:16
introduced sports betting as a way of generating revenue for the government what I will tell you is that my entire
01:19:23
High School all the boys not the girls we became instant gambling addicts we were figuring out how to put
01:19:31
bets on most of it was betting and hockey because that's the sport that we all knew the best growing up in in
01:19:38
Ottawa but it was all day every day it consumed us and I think when you look inside of these apps you're seeing a lot
01:19:45
of young men with a lot of free cash and a lot of time getting sucked into the gamification of this thing I think it's
01:19:51
going to be a big problem and I I will tell you saaks I'm interested in your on this cuz there is a whole system an
01:19:56
ecosystem emerging here the states are getting massive amounts of Revenue 11 billion generated last year up 44.5%
01:20:05
from 2022 the league is printing money from this all the leagues NBA will generate 167 million from betting this
01:20:12
season up 11% year-over-year the sports books obviously killing a Draft Kings got a$ 20 billion market cap and betters
01:20:19
obviously love it it's more fun it's making the games more engaging and the media
01:20:25
is loving this all of the podcast Bill Simmons ESPN you can't watch a game you can't hear Sports commentary without
01:20:33
this being integrated and it's being integrated at a very fundamental editorial level they're asking the host
01:20:39
of these shows their spend what they're betting on and they're doing something very smart which is they're paying huge
01:20:45
endorsement deals to the players as well yes I think DraftKings did something with LeBron this is genius because when
01:20:50
you get that ingratiated you'll never get ripped out because if they become a huge part of the offc Court Revenue
01:20:56
model for these players yeah we're locked in it's like it's like the new uh it's like the new Air Jordans sax what
01:21:03
do you think about this just in terms of on a societal basis and the United States you know it's sort of like
01:21:09
cannabis you know it's this is a new thing for Americans to have access to there's a lot of weird behaviors going
01:21:15
on edge cases but what do you think net net as a society you take away from the emergence of sports batting and this
01:21:22
next Generation being so addicted to it well I think cannabis is the right analogy I think adults should be allowed
01:21:29
to bet on sporting events or just like they're allowed to drink or you know smoke pod or engage in other mild VI
01:21:37
some people handle it responsibly and some don't it's probably on a societal basis it's probably not a great thing
01:21:43
but it's something you allow to happen because of personal freedom and hopefully people use it
01:21:51
responsibly uh freeberg you have any thoughts you play you place any bets free broke have you plac any bets on
01:21:55
Sports I'm curious I do not you do not I I don't I don't place bets on Sports but
01:22:00
I love playing cards because it's social jamat do you do any sports betting now and again maybe this maybe on the Super
01:22:06
Bowl you get uh once in a while you place a bet a wager when I got admitted to the ownership group in the NBA I
01:22:11
stopped and I've probably made three bets since then both all three were like on the Super Bowl at a casino which so
01:22:20
it was legal when I was still an owner and I've not done it since and I've refused to download these apps
01:22:26
because I love sports and I think that if I added this to it I just don't think it would be good
01:22:34
for me so I don't want to do it that was my exact take too sack you ever place any bets you're not a wager the stuff
01:22:39
either right yeah you ever bet on chess is there any no one bets on chess because it's so obvious who's going to
01:22:47
win there's like a very precise rating system and correct so in poker poker's very different because you can have
01:22:54
players at the same table and you know who are the great players and who are not the great players but still in any
01:22:59
given hand the underdog can win because you can basically suck out or whatever there's a significant luck component on
01:23:06
every single hand over the long term you believe that the luck kind of evens out
01:23:11
and you reach your expected value but On Any Given hand you can believe that you're the winner and so there's a lot
01:23:17
of gambling and poker even though it is a skill game in chess like that just doesn't work I mean if I play Magnus
01:23:25
Carlson or any 2000 rated player I'm just never gonna win so there's no point in betting saak what's your rating
01:23:34
1400 I'm a little better than that I'm like um I'm probably more like 1600 last time I was 1400 I stopped playing him
01:23:40
because he would just I would get to the middle game with sacks I get like 30 moves in and then he would just smash me
01:23:45
I'm like 800 or something I how do you get better you have a rating I don't want to talk about it he
01:23:52
doesn't want to talk but what's your rating are you still upset about the octopus
01:23:56
stuff no oh okay what's your but what's your rating question it's too personal a
01:24:03
question do you do you never share information where people can actually like R you yeah be vulnerable dude come
01:24:10
on ask ask me other questions just don't ask me about my CH rating don't ask me about my chest rating ask anything else
01:24:17
what's the best way to get better should I get a coach or something saxs what's the the chess.com app has very good
01:24:22
lessons on it too quite good yeah you could get a coach and that would definitely help there's also these
01:24:28
exercises you can do call puzzle rushes that teach you how to spot tactics that's all tactics that's probably half
01:24:34
the game yeah like you learn how to do a night fork or something like that how to
01:24:39
do pins you just need to spot tactics quickly is really key my puzzle Rush scores are pretty good oh you're over a
01:24:45
thousand puzz no no you play it's like how many you can get in a certain period of Time how many and it gets it gets
01:24:50
sequentially harder as you complete the puzzles and you have like a limited period to do it so yet you feel shame
01:24:58
you feel shame if you want to get better at chess I've watched a lot of Chess videos on YouTube and there's a very
01:25:03
good series by John Bartholomew called climbing the ratings ladder H and for each level of Elo ratings he has a
01:25:12
series of videos so like I don't know if you're like at 1200 there's a whole series for 1200s and he'll play a bunch
01:25:19
of games against 1200s showing what they typically do wrong and you can learn from it it's
01:25:25
actually you spent have you spent time socks like studying like openings and like
01:25:31
studying like specific lines I don't even know if I'm using the right language here like um opening right I
01:25:38
haven't spent a ton of time studying them but I'm certainly familiar with a number of the most common
01:25:44
openings so I guess yes I guess on some level I've studied them I would say that
01:25:49
depending on where you are in your development that may not be the most impressing thing for you to
01:25:56
do you know I think you you probably do want to just know a few basics of a few of the most common openings but but
01:26:04
there's probably other things for you to learn first you don't need to like memorize a bunch of complicated lines I
01:26:09
think it's like really cool that kids are learning this I know this may be a counter or a contrarian view but I I
01:26:15
think kids having access you know or young adults having access to sports batting poker is kind of a good thing
01:26:22
because I you know if controlled because are learning about odds and gambling and
01:26:27
and framing it I um with my 14-year-old are doing an allowance and then I decided to do an investment club and so
01:26:35
I'm putting $100 every month into like a Robin Hood account and we're going to do
01:26:40
like two meetings every month one to buy a new stock and one to examine our existing stocks and I'm just starting an
01:26:46
investment Club so if anybody's kids are in that age group and they want to join
01:26:49
it let me know because I'm going to do like a with the cousins like a zoom call every month where we just talk about
01:26:55
stocks and then I'm going to have them actually buy it so that they can be prepared for the
01:27:01
real world and how companies are going but how do you think about your kids jth because you you got to do this gambling
01:27:06
when you were young didn't that help you ultimately as an adult I mean I ran a casino in my high
01:27:14
school was that was that the uh yeah I mean I I ran a I ran a little blackjack game where the rich kids could play and
01:27:21
I was the house and I would make a few extra hundred bucks a week nice and that was great because like you know between
01:27:28
that and my job at Burger King it really helped and then I would go and take that
01:27:33
and I actually came pretty decent at blackj and I would go they would there would be these what's called charity
01:27:38
casinos so casinos in Ottawa Ontario were illegal but if they were to raise charity for various Charities they were
01:27:45
allowed and so my friend my friend and I would show up at these things and just run them
01:27:50
over anybody else run an illegal business as a as a kid I'll tell you about mine after sack do you run any
01:27:55
illegal businesses as a kid no comment come on it's statue of limitations what did you do you must have been running
01:28:01
some scams come on tell us I'll tell you my two scams after you tell us yours oh
01:28:05
by the way I'll tell you I had a bad dead situation in my in my oh really lunch game you know I used to I used to
01:28:10
let people bet up to a buck okay so four or five guys up you know 25 cents 50 cents or a dollar and one guy he like
01:28:18
demanded an expanded credit line and so I gave him up to two bucks and how many boxes a z did he go down and one lunch
01:28:25
he lost 80 bucks and it took me three months to get paid it was the worst exp of Z I had no $80 I had I'm just doing a
01:28:32
soprano I had to I had to sweat this guy for three months to get my 80 he was rich too his parents were Rich
01:28:40
what he do did he have to do your term papers or something did he have to do your essays clean clean your bike I
01:28:45
wouldn't have gotten this come on give it up what was your what was your scam you were running as let's move
01:28:50
on I had two scams freeberg you have a scam when you were running when you were a kid any scams I used to go to the
01:28:58
Recycler newspaper do you guys remember that yeah the recycler and I would buy used like Electronics equipment computer
01:29:04
equipment and then I would like sell it so I would then like post other ads I basically did add Arbitrage as a way to
01:29:11
think about it so I would go and find people selling stuff that I thought was like underpriced and I would buy it
01:29:17
there was nothing to fix you would just it was underpriced and then I knew like the better Market to go sell it at and
01:29:21
make more money so then I'd buy like all these like old like like a broken receiver disc man and a receiver good
01:29:28
speaker speakers that I knew were good but they were like deeply discounted I drive around in my white van I'd pay
01:29:34
people cash I'd load it up and then I go sell it to like other people by putting
01:29:37
ads no wonder you w up no wonder you wound up at Google I had I had two really good scams
01:29:43
when I was a kid the first was this guy owed my dad some money for back gaming my dad was a back gamon shark and he
01:29:49
would play in his bar when I would show up at 6:00 in the morning my dad would be playing blackjack with guys they
01:29:53
would get you know in deep with him and so this guy who was in the mob owe my dad some money and uh for The Vig he
01:30:02
gave him a copy of The Empire Strikes Back on VHS and I was like what you this is
01:30:09
before it was out they had recorded in the movie theaters in 1984 or something3 whenever that came out and it was a
01:30:15
really bad copy so I my dad comes home he gives me the copy we watch it it was incredible it's like thanks Dad and I
01:30:21
got my friend to bring over his VHS I made 10 copies of it I go to school in McKinley junor High School in Brooklyn
01:30:27
and I sell them for 30 bucks a pop oh my God selling like hot cakes and then I get
01:30:33
pinched math teacher says what's going on with these Empire Strikes Back and I said uh what do you mean I don't know
01:30:39
what you're talking about he's like I heard your got onire strikes back he kept your mouth shut I looked him dead
01:30:45
in the eye and I said are you interested the teacher goes yeah how much are they I said 30 bucks but I'll
01:30:53
give you one for 10 and he said okay pulled out 10 bucks I sold my math teacher I kid you not the
01:30:59
Empire Strike Back for 10 bucks can you do this whole thing again but in the Christopher Walkin voice I'm not gonna
01:31:05
but I'll give you the other one I did no it's a Joe pesy voice do this one in the
01:31:08
Christopher Walkin voice and so the name of it was Jason's hot tapes and so I made a business card and laminated
01:31:13
Jason's hot tapes and I would hand it to people and I'd hand them the Jason's hot
01:31:17
tape card and theyd say give me my card back but I would just show him that I had a card oh that reminds me I was also
01:31:22
in the fake ID business oh say more yeah I grinded out I grinded out fake IDs with a buddy of mine all
01:31:29
right that was mine that was mine oh Z the fake ID business too we used Harvard Graphics Sak what were you using I was
01:31:36
using Harvard Graphics well this was in the days before Holograms and it wasn't it just wasn't that hard to you know cop
01:31:42
so we just made like boards or whatever and Polaroids so we did it for ourselves
01:31:47
and we did it for friends yeah same here's the thing about the fake ID business the bouncers were like if you
01:31:54
got money show us any piece of paper so we have plausible we have plausible deniability just wanted plausible
01:32:01
deniability that was the that's the key to the racket did you put mck Lovin in University of Hawaii yeah actually well
01:32:10
it's kind of funny is sometimes the bouncers would go what's your name and you'd be like you'd be stumped because
01:32:16
you didn't remember what so drunk you don't even remember like my name is was like my
01:32:23
name was like was like Raj Patel Raj Patel or they' ask you what was your birthday and you don't remember
01:32:32
what's on your ID you don't know what's on your ID I don't remember I don't remember you know the the key I had one
01:32:39
drink now the key in the fake ID game is to use your your month and day that's yours and then just change the Year yes
01:32:48
that's the key that's the key all right so I'll give you the second one do it in
01:32:52
Christopher Walkin voice so my friend his brother had a DeLorean he I I can't do it I can't
01:33:01
sated anyway this kid U who I grew up with oh I should sorry um anyway his name was beep that out he lived up on
01:33:10
13th Avenue I go to his house his brother's got a DeLorean it was incredible and we're in junior high
01:33:16
school and I'm talking to his brother and I go into the garage and there's all DeLorean Parts on the wall and I said
01:33:24
why do you have all these parts and he said oh you know uh there was a DeLorean that um you know fell apart and we
01:33:32
picked up the pieces they had stolen another DeLorean because DeLorean stopped producing and they just chopped
01:33:37
it up but he had in his garage so anyway uh we're playing Chessmaster at the time
01:33:41
and I had hacked a copy of Chessmaster it was very easy to do and the guy said you got Chessmaster can you get me more
01:33:47
copies of that I said sure how many copies you want he's like how many can you make I was like well floppy disc
01:33:51
costs four bucks he's like I'll give you 10 bucks a copy of Chess Master I said fine I go with my friend we go steal
01:33:58
floppy discs uh from the store so we didn't want to pay the four bucks for them not the not the three and a halfs
01:34:04
the five and a quarter these are five and a quarters and we go into the store and we take the flyer and I hold the
01:34:11
flyer open and I hold it behind my back and my friend takes the discs out of the
01:34:15
sleeve at Stables whatever Dums them in there we made copies of it and then we were selling Chessmaster for 10 bucks a
01:34:21
pop at scale and giving them to the guys on 13th Avenue who were then reselling them for 20 bucks this is when
01:34:26
Chessmaster was like a $100 product Shout out to Chessmaster um but that was my second scam business this is some
01:34:34
degenerate yeah and that's not even the best one the I'll give you the best one this is the best and I'll give you the
01:34:40
last scan we ran there were parking permits in the late 80s in Manhattan they were hard to
01:34:46
get but they were legit if you had a parking permit in your window for the fire department police you know you
01:34:54
could park in Manhattan in a lot of different areas and so uh we went and we took a picture of these then we got on
01:35:01
page maker or whatever and I went down to Canal Street and I bought at uh Pearl paints like the the same color orange
01:35:09
and that lamination kit and we got on Photoshop I kid you not we held the picture up and we tried to figure out
01:35:15
the fonts they used and we made a copy of the placards to park and then we sold those for like 50 bucks and people used
01:35:23
them and they wouldn't get tickets they worked so we sold police placards that had to be super illegal in 1988 all
01:35:30
right everybody four your Sultan of science the exceptional David freedberg your chairman dictator jth
01:35:37
ptia the Rainman yeah David Sachs I am your world's greatest moderator J Cal we'll see you on episode 176 and
01:35:47
hopefully in September at the all-in summit bye-bye byebye your Winner's ride Rainman
01:35:59
David and it said we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it queen
01:36:09
[Music] of Besties my dog Tak driveways oh man my habiter will meet me at we should all just get a room and
01:36:24
just have one big huge orgy because they're all just useless it's like this like sexual tension that they just need
01:36:29
to release [Music] somehow we need to get mer [Music] our I'm going all [Music]