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your thoughts on where we're at with the Ukraine and if we're going to get a ceasefire, a peace negotiation or a
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peace settlement or if the United States is just going to walk away because it seems like Trump is a little perturbed
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by the progress here and he has said, you know, maybe it's just up to them to figure it out and he'll be done with the
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whole thing. Your thoughts, Saxs? Well, I think that the the Alaska summit was major progress. I think that first
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of all, the president deserves enormous credit for reestablishing diplomacy and communication with the Russians. There
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literally hasn't been a meeting between the US president and the Russian president since 2021 while this war is
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going on and while the war has continued to escalate. I guess the Biden administration's policy was just to
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ignore the Russians and roll their dice and hope that the war didn't escalate out of control. In any event, I think
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Trump deserves a lot of credit for again reestablishing that diplomatic connection and trying to use diplomacy
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to end the war. And it was shocking to see how much Democrats and the media were openly rooting for him to fail in
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these efforts to end this war. And effectively, they're rooting for hundreds of thousands of more people to
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die or get maimed. They were pretty hysterical, right, on the news. It was pretty crazy.
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Yeah. And by the way, they they claim that they care about the Ukrainian people, but the Ukrainian people by
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large majorities now want this war to end and they're willing to make meaningful concessions to do it. So
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there was a poll by Gallup, which Nick, maybe you can throw this on the screen where a year or two ago something like
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70% of Ukrainians wanted to keep fighting the war. Now that number is down to 24%. Again, the vast majority
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are looking to achieve a peace. And I think that President Trump and President Putin made some important progress in
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terms of getting to an eventual peace deal. And I think there are a few planks here. Number one was the recognition
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that we should try to get to a comprehensive peace deal, not a ceasefire. A ceasefire is temporary. And
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the Russians have already said they wouldn't do it because they understand from their point of view that this would
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just give the Ukrainians time to regroup and rearm and try to reset, but it wouldn't end the war. And the truth of
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the matter is that when you're fighting a war and losing, you don't get to call a timeout. So the Russians have been
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rejecting this idea of a ceasefire for months. And I think that it was wise, if our ultimate goal is to get to a deal,
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to recognize that the comprehensive peace deal is what we want to get to. So that's point number one. Point number
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two is that President Trump acknowledged that Ukraine would not be joining NATO,
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which was the key source of the friction and the thing that ultimately led to this war. So I think that definitively
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taking NATO off the table I think was a very important precondition to getting to an eventual peace. And then I think
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the third thing was that the parties both the Russians and the Americans agreed that there would have to be
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territorial concessions of some kind. And we don't know all the details yet. There was some conversation about land
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swaps. But the point of the matter is that we're not going back to the pre-war status quo ante. The Russians have taken
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the big chunk of territory. The Ukrainians have not been able to get it back. People are trying to blame Trump
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for this somehow. But the real cause of this is the failure of the counter offensive in the summer of 2023.
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Remember, we gave the Ukrainians something like hundred billion dollars worth of weapons to retake that
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territory. And it was an abysmal failure. They didn't even make it past the first Survivican line. That is a
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real cause of why the Ukrainians are going to lose territory in this war is they're simply not able to retake it.
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And I think there was a a general recognition coming out of that Alaska summit that there would have to be
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territorial concessions. And I think in these three pillars, I think you have the basis for a comprehensive peace
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deal, which is again, number one, we're going for a peace deal, not a ceasefire.
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Number two, no NATO. And number three, we have to recognize the realities on the ground. Now, I think the big
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question mark, I think we could get to a peace deal pretty quickly if Zalinski and the Europeans were willing to
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acknowledge these three points, but so far they have not been willing to acknowledge those three points. And I
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think this is one of the things that if you're listening to the remarks the following Monday when the Europeans came
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to the White House, there was no recognition. They were still clamoring for a ceasefire, you know, again, which
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the Russians had rejected as opposed to a comprehensive peace. They were still clamoring for NATO and they were still
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rejecting the idea of any territorial concessions including even Crimea which was lost over a decade ago. So I think
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that the issue we have right now is that Zalinski and the Ukrainian government, not the
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people, but the Ukrainian elite and some of these European countries that are backing him are not willing to make the
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compromises necessary to achieve a peace deal. And as President Trump has said, at the end of the day, you need the
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Russians and the Ukrainians to agree. So I think that President Trump deserves enormous credit here for reestablishing
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diplomacy, for making substantial progress towards a comprehensive peace deal. But at the end of the day, unless
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Zinsky starts being willing to make compromises, I don't know how you're going to get to that deal.
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Yeah. Freeberg, Dave, any thoughts on this? No. Negotiation? Shimoth, anything? Well, I
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was pretty curious about the historical pattern of this. So, I just went back and here's what I learned.
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What's interesting to note is that since 1945, so not assuming, you know, conflicts in
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Africa because they are not really quite part of the western political global order per se, it's important to ask the
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question like how have other territorial disputes panned out? So there are disputes that end in
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stalemates and when you end up in a stalemate you basically arrange a DMZ demilitarized zone type arrangement. So
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there's one in Korea right 1953 to now. There's one in Cyprus 1974 to right now and there's one in Kashmir 1947 to
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today. And then there's this kind of thing in between Israel and Lebanon. And then second, there are disputes where
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there's some action taken by one country to take something by force, but then there's no consensus
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internationally as to who owns a territory. So Crimea, as Saxs mentioned, 2014 to present, and
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then Israel and West uh East Jerusalem, sorry. So I think the point is that unless
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President Trump figures out a way to do something that's frankly truly unprecedented, the historical pattern is
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that it's been nearly impossible for even the most powerful and influential person in the world to frankly draw
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deals in these kinds of situations, especially when they become protracted. And I think
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that's what he's getting to when he reinforces these things never would have started or gotten this far had I been
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president. You know, that's what he says in quotes. And I think this is what he's
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referring to, which is that the longer these things get drawn out and particularly with Russia, Ukraine, and
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Israel, Gaza, you're talking about conflicts and historical issues that have been simmering for
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hundreds of years and in some cases thousands of years all the way back to the antiquity. So, I don't know. I I
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just think that it's an incredibly incredibly difficult position and I just don't know what's going to
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happen. But I think that for modern progress to happen, I think it's important for both of these two issues
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to get put to bed as quickly as possible. Jake, what do you think? And we saw the
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media attacking Trump for even daring to hold negotiations with the Russians. Do
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you think this was a good idea or do you think that somehow uh Trump was caving to Putin?
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I give Trump a lot of credit. He is incredibly good at foreign policy and specifically with dictators. If you look
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at our past presidents, they didn't want to meet with Putin. They didn't want to
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meet with Kim Jong-un, Kim Jong-il. They thought isolation was the best policy. It's not. I think talking to these folks
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and trying to find common ground is the best policy. Even if it's a 5% chance of
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it actually working out, which is what I think any president dealing with a dictator and a death spot like,
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you know, Putin is going to have. I think you have a 5 or 10% chance. And I think Trump and Biden actually had a lot
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in common that worked. the lone leasing of the weapons and not costing the American taxpayer any money where a lot
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of partisan people said, "Oh my god, this is costing the Americans so much." It's actually Trump has figured out a
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way to make it profitable. He's selling more weapons to Ukraine and he got us the minimal rights. It turns out Trump
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was able to turn a cost center or a supposed cost center into a profit center in terms of this specific war.
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And if you look at the sanctions, Trump has increased the sanctions. So Trump had my exact position that I fought for
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here on this podcast for the past couple of years in this conflict, which was keep the pressure up on Putin. And Trump
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took it over the top by going to Putin's main client for his oil now, which is India, and putting a massive tariff on
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them and threatening them with a huge tariff. That was a bold, audacious way to deal with Putin. So, I give Trump a
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ton of credit for trying to make peace here. And Putin has been, Hold on, let me just finish. And Putin has been
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absolutely humiliated. He can't even get to Keev, let alone take over Finland or
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Poland. And this has cost Russia, their greatest customer, which is the EU, Germany. These people are never going to
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buy his oil again. Not after what happened here. And that you can give a lot of credit to Trump because he told
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them when they built their oil pipelines that the Germans were lunatics for doing
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that and for creating a massive revenue stream for a dictator who is in my mind a war criminal. What he did in
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invading Ukraine makes him a war criminal. What he did in kidnapping these children makes him a war criminal.
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I think it's awesome that Trump is doing this intervention even if it has a 5 or
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10% chance of working and then making the NATO alliance pay their fair share and selling them more weapons. I think
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also brilliant. So I I give Trump a lot of credit here. He's aligned exactly what I said we should be doing, which is
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holding dictators who invade other countries accountable for it. And he's added to it the fact that he can connect
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with people. So I give him a ton of credit for it, Zach. I know that's maybe not the answer you want, but that's how
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I look. I think you use this highly moralistic language and you engage in a lot of name calling and I actually think
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that's kind of which one which name is inaccurate, please. Dictator or war criminal?
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Well, look, you're complimenting Trump for engaging in diplomacy with Putin, but then at the same time, you want to
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call him a dictator and war criminal, and that's not going to be conducive to actually trying to reach a peace
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agreement. Now, it's fine. But I'm not doing the negotiation. If I was doing the negotiation, I wouldn't
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come in and say, "Hey, dictator, war criminal, let's fight for peace." I'm giving you my personal belief as a
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person not negotiating. So you're praising and you're praising Trump for increasing the pressure and
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leverage that he has with the Russians, which I think is fine. My question for you is would you
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increase the pressure or leverage with respect to Zalinski? So for example, would you tell Zalinski in no uncertain
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terms, listen, stop demanding to be part of NATO because it's not happening? In fact, the president has done that. Uh
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what about um yeah, the the answer to that question is yes. I would say listen, it's not
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realistic to join NATO. You can get some security guarantees. There's sort of talk of this NATO light.
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So, I would agree with that. I would say listen, we're going to take and I said this on a previous episode. We should
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just take off NATO inclusion for like 20 years. Okay. So, here's the what about territorial concessions?
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I think that's a decision Ukraine has to make. We should encourage them to make whatever decision is best for them. But
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if they want to keep fighting this thing, that's going to be up to their people to decide if they want to fight
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for their land. Well, the people have said they don't want to keep the the problem you have
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right now is that 70% of Ukrainians say they don't want to keep fighting. They're ready.
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Sounds like they're ready to make concessions. Yes. So, it sounds like Zilinsky should
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listen to his people. Yes, that's his decision to make. I think he has sovereignty and the people get to
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make that decision in his country. Well, but the the problem you have is it's not just Zilinsky, right? It's his
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ruling click. They have canceled elections and they will remain in power as long as the war
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continues. So they there's a conflict of interest there and there's a lot of money flowing into Ukraine because of
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the war. So what if the ruling elite wants to keep the war going forever while the people want it to stop?
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Yeah. They're going to face a revolution right quick. And so I think they have to
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take the citizens of Ukraine into account. And it's a tough decision for them to make,
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but it's not our decision to make for them. Is that a reasonable position? It sounds like a reasonable position.
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I think it's reasonable. Yeah. I mean, I don't I look, at the end of the day, the
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Ukrainians and the Russians have to agree. Yes. And I I think that of of the major
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parties, I think President Trump cares the most about peace. I mean, I think he is pushing the hardest for there to be a
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peace