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I have a little surprise for my besties everybody's been getting incredible adulation people have been getting
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incredible feedback on the podcast it is a phenomenon As We Know and I thought it was time for us to do
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performance reviews of each bestie now I as executive producer I'm not in a position to do uh your performance
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reviews I too need to have a performance review so I thought I would let the audience do their performance reviews so
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we went and we're debuting a new feature today at this very moment it's called Reddit performance review oh God cue
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some music here some graphics Reddit performance reviews and so we'll start off with you David Friedberg this proves
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why you haven't been successful in life so far Enterprise in set to yourself which is what all Elite
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performers do yes you turned it over to a bunch of mids on Reddit yes I'm already doing it they were already doing
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it we just collected it what elucidation were you going to get from Reddit yeah really let's not ruin the bit do you
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think Elon does 360 performance reviews on Reddit on Reddit of all things you know how many 360 performance trees I've
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done in my life zero of course and that's why this will be so interesting okay go go start off with me
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you are going to be presented with the candid feedback that you've gotten in the last 30 days on Reddit
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but for the first time and you have to read it out loud to the class Freeburg you'll go first here's your first piece
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of candid feedback in your 360 from the Reddit in cells go ahead Freeburg read it out loud David Friedberg deserves
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more hate he and the others have made it their mission to convince us that reforming Social Security is the only
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way forward to survive he hides behind this nerdy apolitical Persona and then goes hard right out of nowhere it's that
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fear-mongered about the deficit as an excuse to restructure entitlement programs we would see that as the
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partisan right-wing take it is when Friedberg does it we're supposed to act like he has no skin in this game he's
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just the Science Guy no he's a rich guy who would rather work your grandparents to death than pay an extra five percent
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tax all right there's your review very good I think you took it well and you don't have to respond now don't be
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defensive just take it in just a counter briefly I have highlighted multiple times I think we're going to 70 tax
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rates but hey you know all right they're wrong everyone's got an opinion that won't generate more Revenue yeah the
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history is any guide yeah well the audience has been waiting for this David sacks has never taken a piece of
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feedback and the feedback he has gotten he hasn't taken well so here we go David
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here's your performance review go ahead I'm supposed to read this go with the bit come on it's a little feedback for
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you come on all right and I'm gonna do this too and I haven't seen mine oh Nick pulled these Nick pulled these
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this is nice these are actual pieces of real feedback Nick you're fired that's it get out of
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here good sex the thing about David sacks if he wasn't Rich everyone would dismiss him as being
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both stupid and boring and the secret to his wealth is just follow theater since
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College it's like if turtle from ontar pretend to be a public intellectual has never had a 360 review he informs us
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and I think his staff you know for all the people at Social Capital you can get in on this by just posting to Reddit
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since he went to 360 reviews at Social Capital go ahead let's pull up your months feedback for the quarter
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moth is the biggest self-serving leech as long as he can make a dollar trade on it he will burn anything down to the
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ground [ __ ] the consequences to society or anyone else this was actually the good part
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yeah why'd you give him such a good review truth it is okay I gotta read mine I haven't seen
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this I'm embracing for impact here what's the critique exactly what is the critique
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from that I mean that's like it's pretty active yeah okay all right here we go I gotta read mine okay I can't wait for
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AI to replace Jay cow Jay cow is the least skilled knowledge worker on the show I think he has about three shows
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left before AI replaces his hosting skills and ability to trick dentists into investing in hype
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that's pretty good that last part I do have a lot of dentist friends in the funds um okay I'm gonna pay for a
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lot of kids then to school great idea great idea Jay Cal to give us what a great big there's one group one there's
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one for the whole group this is a group survey this is our group 360. vote to rename the podcast the vote is binding
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and the podcast will be renamed three billionaires in jaycal three kind of smart guys and jcal three [ __ ] and
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Free Bird that's a pretty good survey that was pretty good yeah that's a good one
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Rain Man [Music] we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy [Music]
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all right everybody Welcome to the all in podcast we're still here episode 129 all in Summit 2023 general admission
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sold out too many people apply for scholarships that's on pause and there's a couple of
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VIP tickets left get them while they're hot just search for all in Summit Freeburg anything to add we'll just get
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through the grift real quick here at the beginning no it's gonna get it all right
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that was it yeah I mean just more demand than we predicted we look for a bigger venue couldn't find one we're I think
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we're excited about Royce Hall it's still as you pointed out two and a half times the size of last year so we
00:05:46
want to make sure it's a great quality event but unfortunately way too many folks want to go so we have to kind of
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pause ticket sales what's my wine budget 300 per person per night a thousand dollars per VIP per event thank you okay
00:06:01
I will handle it from here so there's 750 of them so I think you have 750 000 in one budget thank you
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I mean I just can't believe I just gave extra mod 750 dollars to buy one all right guys I'm gonna curate an
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incredible guideline here today by the way oh he's doing yes Melanie Josh somebody hey Josh all
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right let's get to work okay the senate had a hearing this week for AI Sam Altman was there as well as Gary Marcus
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a professor from NYU that's an overpriced College in New York City and Christina Montgomery the Chief
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privacy and Trust officer from IBM which had Watson before anybody else was in the AI business and I think they
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deprecated it or they stopped working on it which is quite paradoxical there were a couple of very interesting
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moments Sam claimed the U.S should create a separate agency to oversee AI I guess is
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in the chamoth camp he wants the agency to issue licenses to train and use AI models a little regulatory capture there
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as we say in the biz he also claims and this was interesting dovetailing with elon's CNBC interview with I think Dave
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Farber which is very good that he owns no equity in open AI whatsoever and was quote
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doing it because he loves it any thoughts shamath you did say that this would happen
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two months ago and here we are two months later and exactly what you said would happen is in the process of
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happening regulation Licensing and Regulatory capture Sam went a little further then I
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sketched out a few months ago which is that he also said that it may make sense for us to issue licenses for these
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models to even be compiled um and for these models to actually do the learning and I thought that that was really
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interesting because what it speaks to is a form of kyc right know your customer and again when you look at markets that
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can be subject to things like fraud and manipulation right where you can have a lot of Bad actors banking is the most
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obvious one we use things like kyc to make sure that money flows are happening appropriately
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and between parties that where the intention is legal and so I think that that's actually
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probably the most important new bit of perspective that he is adding as somebody right in the middle of it which
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is that you should apply to this agency to get a license to then allow you to compile a
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model and I think that that was a really interesting thing the other thing that I
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said and I said this in my in a tweet just a couple days ago is I'm really surprised actually where this is the
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first time in modern history that I can remember where we've invented something we being
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Silicon Valley and the people in Silicon Valley are the ones that are more circumspect than the
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folks on Wall Street or other areas and if you see if you gauge the sentiment the hedge funds and family offices right
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now are just giddy about Ai and it turns out if you look at their 13fs they're all long Nvidia and AMD
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but if you actually look at the other side of the coin which is the folks in Silicon Valley that's actually making it
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the rest of us are like hey let's crawl before we walk before we run yeah let's think about guard rails let's be
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thoughtful here and so the the big money people are saying let's place bets and the people building in are saying hey
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let's be thoughtful which is opposite to what it's always been I think right we're like hey let's let's run with this
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and wall Street's like prove it to me sax you are a less regulation guy you are a free market monster I've heard
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you've been called uh you don't believe that we should license this what do you think about what you're seeing here and
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there is some cynical cynical thoughts about what we just saw happen in terms of people in the lead wanting to
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maintain their lead by creating red tape what are your thoughts yeah of course I think you know Sam just
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went straight for the end game here which is regulatory capture normally when a tech executive goes and
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testifies at these hearings they're in the hot seat and they get grilled and that didn't happen here because you know
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Sam Allman basically bought Into The Narrative of these senators and he basically conceded all these risks
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associated with with AI he talked about how GPT style models if unregulated could
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increase online misinformation bolster cyber criminals even threatened confidence in election systems
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so he basically bought into the center's narrative and like you said agreed to create a new agency that would license
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models and can take licenses away he said that he would create safety standards specific tests that a mall has
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to pass before it can be deployed he says he would require independent audits who can say the model is or isn't in
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compliance and by basically buying into their narrative and agreeing to everything
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they want which is to create all these new regulations and a new agency I think that Sam is pretty much guaranteeing
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that he'll be one of the people who gets to help shape the new agency and and the
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rules they're going to operate under and what these independent audits are gonna
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how they're gonna determine what's in compliance so he is basically putting a big moat around his own incumbency here
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and so yes it is a smart strategy for him but the question is do we really need any of this stuff and you know what
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you heard at the hearing is that just like with just about every other Tech issue the centers on the Judiciary
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Committee didn't exhibit any real understanding of the technology and so they all generally talked about their
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own hobby horses so you know you heard from Senator Blackburn she wants to protect songwriters Holly wants to stop
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anti-conservative bias Klobuchar was touting a couple of bills that have her name on them one's called the jcpa
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journalism competition presentation Bernie Sanders want to do he wants to protect the one percent of the one
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Durbin hates section 230 that was the hobby horse he was riding and then Senator Blumenthal was obsessed that
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someone had published deep fakes of himself so you know all of these different Senators had different
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theories of harm that they were promoting and they were all basically hammers looking for a nail you know they
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all wanted to regulate this thing and they didn't really pay much of any attention to the ways that existing laws
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could already be used absolutely to stop any of these things if you commit a crime with AI there are plenty of
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criminal laws every single thing they talked about could be handled through existing law if they came out to be
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harmed at all yeah but they want to jump right to creating a new agency and new regulations and Sam I think did the
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you know expedient thing here which is basically buy into it in order an Insider if this was a chess game Sam got
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to the mid game he traded all the pieces and went right to the end game let's just try to Checkmate here I've got the
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lead I got the 10 billion from Microsoft everybody else get a license and try to
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catch up Friedberg we have trimath Pro regulation licensing I think or just being pretty thoughtful about it there
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you got sax being typically a free market monster let the laws be what they are but these senators are going to do
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regulatory capture where do you as the Sultan of science stand on this very important issue I think there is a
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more important kind of broader set of trends that are worth noting and that the folks doing
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these hearings and having these conversations are aware of which implies why they might be saying
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the things that they're saying that's not necessarily about regulatory capture and that is that a lot of these models
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can be developed and generated to be much smaller we're seeing you know models that can effectively run on an
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iPhone we're seeing a number of Open Source models that are being published now there's a group called Mosaic ml
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last week they published what looks like a pretty good quality model that has you know a very large kind of
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token input which means you can do a lot with it and that model can be downloaded
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and used by anyone for free you know really good open source license that they've provided on that model and
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that's really just the tip of the iceberg on what's going on which is that these models are very quickly becoming
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ubiquitous to monetized small and effectively are able to move to and be run on the edge of the network as a
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result that means that it's very hard to see who's using what models how behind the products and tools that they're
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building and so if that's the trend then it becomes very hard for a regulatory agency to go in and audit every server
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or every computer or every computer on a network and say what model are you running is that an approved model is
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that not an approved model it's almost like having a regulatory agency that has to go in and
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audit and assess whether a Linux upgrade or some sort of you know open source platform that's that's being run on some
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server is appropriately vetted and checked and so it it's almost like a Fool's errand and so if I'm running one
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of these companies and I'm trying to you know get Congress off my butt and get all these Regulators off my butt I'm
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going to say go ahead and regulate us because the truth is there really isn't a great or easy path or ability to do
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that and there certainly won't be in five or ten years once these models all move on to the edge of the network and
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they're all being turned around all the time every day and there's a great Evolution underway
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so I actually take a point of view that it's not just that this is necessarily bad and there's cronyism going on I
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think that the point of view is just that this is going to be a near impossible task to try and track and
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approve llms and audit servers that are running llms and audit apps and audit what's behind the tools that everyday
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people are using and I wish everyone the best of luck in trying to do so but that's kind of the
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joke of the whole thing it's like let's go ahead and paddle these Congress people on the shoulder and say you got
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it you're right there you have it folks wrong answer chamatha sacks right answer
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Friedberg if you were to look at hugging face if you don't know what that is it's
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a basically an open source repository of all of the llms the cat is out of the bag the horses have left the barn if you
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look at what I'm showing on the screen here this is the open llm leaderboard it's kind of buried on hugging face if
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you haven't been to hugging face this is where developers show their work they share their work and they kind of
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compete with each other in a social network showing all their contributions and what they do here is and this is
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super fascinating they have a series of tests that will take an llm a language model and they will
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have it do science questions that would be for grade school they'll do a test of
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mathematics U.S history computer science Etc there's a Jeopardy test too I don't
00:17:01
know if it's on here but the Jeopardy test is really good it's like straight up Jeopardy trivia and see if it can
00:17:05
answer the questions yeah which actually uh Friedberg was actually his high school uh Jeopardy Championship three
00:17:11
years in a row but anyway on this line report you can see the language models are
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outpacing what openai did I'm sorry closed AI is what I call it now because they're closed Source closed Ai and Bard
00:17:26
have admitted that internal person at Bart said the language models here are now outpacing what they're able to do
00:17:33
with much more resources many hands makes for light work the Open Source models are going to fit on your phone or
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the latest you know Apple silicone so I think the cat's out of the bag I don't know how they post something
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incompatible about that what Freebird just said with what I said in fact three verse point bolsters my point it's
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highly impractical to regulate open source software in this way also when you look at that list of things that
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people are doing on hogging face there's nothing nefarious about it yeah and all
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the harms that were described are already illegal and can be prosecuted exactly I need some special agency you
00:18:06
know giving it seal of approval again this is going to replace permissionless Innovation which is what has defined the
00:18:12
software industry and especially open source with the knee need to develop some connection or relationship and
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lobbying in Washington to go get your project approved and there's no really good reason for this except for the fact
00:18:24
that the Senators on the Judiciary Committee and all of Washington really wants more control so they can get more
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donations sax I have a question do you think that creating the DMV and requiring a driver's license limits
00:18:38
the ability for people to learn how to drive the DMV is like the classic example of how government doesn't work I
00:18:44
don't know why you'd want to make that your example I mean people have to spend the whole time he sends people to it
00:18:50
he's got a VIP person all day waiting in line to get your photo taken it's insane
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I mean everyone has a miserable experience with it no but it's highly relevant because you're you're right if
00:19:00
you create an agency where people have to go get their permission it's a licensing scheme you're gonna be waiting
00:19:06
in some line of Untold length it won't be like a physical line at the DMV building it's going to be a virtual line
00:19:12
where you're in some queue where there's probably going to be some overwork regulator who doesn't even know how this
00:19:17
was to approve your project they're just going to be trying to cover their ass because if the project ends up being
00:19:22
something nefarious then they get blamed for it so that's what's going to end up happening let me
00:19:28
also highlight something that I think is maybe I think a little bit misunderstood
00:19:33
but you know an AI model is an algorithm so it's a it's a piece of software that
00:19:40
takes data in and spits data out and you know we have algorithms that are written by humans we have algorithms
00:19:46
that have been you know written by machines either machine learn models which is what a lot of what people are
00:19:52
calling AI today is effectively an extension of and out of and so the idea that a particular
00:19:58
algorithm is differentiated from another algorithm is also what makes this very difficult because these are algorithms
00:20:06
that are embedded and sit Within products and applications that an end user and End customer ultimately uses
00:20:12
and I just sent you guys a a link to the you know the EU has been working towards passing this AI good
00:20:19
here we go there are a couple of weeks ahead of these conversations in the U.S but I mean as you read through this AI
00:20:26
Act and the proposal that it's uh that it's put forth it almost becomes the kind of thing that you say
00:20:33
I just don't know if these folks really understand how the technology works because it's almost as if they're going
00:20:39
to audit and have you know an assessment of the risk level of every software application out there
00:20:46
and that the tooling and the necessary infrastructure to be able to do that just makes no sense in the context of
00:20:52
Open Source software in the context of an open internet uh in the context of how quickly software and applications
00:20:59
and tools evolve and you make tweets to an algorithm and you got to resubmit it for authorization sure their number one
00:21:06
job freedberg is going to be to protect jobs so anything there that in any way infringes on somebody's ability to be
00:21:14
employed in a position whether it's a artist or a writer or a developer they're going to say you can't use these
00:21:20
tools or they're going to try to follow them to try to protect jobs because that's their second question of all
00:21:25
three of you do you guys think that this was Sam's way of pulling up the ladder behind him of course no 100 just like
00:21:31
okay absolutely it is and it's because no you can you can prove it he made open AI closed AI by making it not open
00:21:38
source if you're Sam you're smart enough to know how quickly the models are commoditizing and how many different
00:21:46
models there are that you know can provide similar degrees of functionality as you just pointed out jaycal so I
00:21:52
don't think it's about trying to lock in your model I think it's about recognizing the impracticality of
00:21:57
creating some regulatory regime around model auditing and so you're very so that in that in that world in that
00:22:04
scenario where you have that Vision you have that foresight do you go to Congress and tell them that they're dumb
00:22:08
to regulate AI or do you go to Congress and you say great you should regulate AI
00:22:12
knowing that it's like hey yeah you should go ahead and stop the Sun from shining you know like it's just yeah so
00:22:18
basically he's telling him to do that because he knows they can't no therefore he gets all the points all the joy
00:22:24
points all the social credit I don't want to say virtual signaling but he gets all the credit relationship credit
00:22:30
with Washington for saying what they want to hear reflecting back to them even though he knows they can't compete
00:22:36
with Facebook's open model which is number one yeah there is historical precedent interesting for companies that
00:22:42
are facing Congressional scrutiny to go to Congress and say go ahead and regulate us as a way of Premium relief
00:22:48
yeah and I think that it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get regulated but it's a way of kind of
00:22:53
creating some relief and getting everyone to take a breather and a sigh of relief and be like okay the industry
00:22:57
is with us you know what do you think the gardas strategy he's pulling here list guard does I think that's in chess
00:23:05
when you are going to take the queen anyway what do you think of his chess movies that's uh not a strategy in chess
00:23:14
so I think it is a chess move nonetheless is he pulling up the ladder sacks or no I don't think that's his
00:23:21
number one goal but I think it is the result and so I think the the goal here is I
00:23:28
think he's got two passing from and when you go to testify like this you can either resist and they will put you in
00:23:35
the hot seat and just Grill you for a few hours or you can sort of concede and you buy into their narrative and then
00:23:42
you kind of get through the hearing without being grilled and so I think on that level it's preferable just to kind
00:23:48
of play ball and then the other thing is that by playing ball you get to be part
00:23:53
of the Insiders Club that's going to shape these regulations and that will I wouldn't say it's a ladder coming up I
00:23:58
think it's more of a moat where because it's not that the latter comes up and nobody else can get in but the
00:24:04
regulations are going to be a pretty big moat around major incumbents who know they qualify for this because they're
00:24:10
going to write these standards so at the end of the day if you're someone in Sam's shoes you're like why resist and
00:24:17
make myself a Target or I'll just buy into the narrative and help shape the regulations and it's good for my
00:24:24
business I like the analysis this gentlemen this is a perfect analysis let me ask you about the question tomorrow
00:24:28
what is the commercial incentive from your point of view to ask for regulation and to be
00:24:35
pro-regulation your pro regulation can you just highlight for me at least what you think
00:24:39
you know the the commercial reason is to do that you know how do you benefit from
00:24:44
that like not you personally but generally like where does benefit arise I think that certain people in a sphere
00:24:51
of influence and I would put us in that category have to have the intellectual capacity
00:24:56
to see beyond ourselves and ask what's for the greater good I think Buffett is right two weeks ago
00:25:05
he equated AI to nuclear weapons which is an incredibly powerful technology whose Genie you can't put back in the
00:25:14
bottle who's 99.9 of use cases are generally quite societally positive but the point one percent of use cases
00:25:24
destroys Humanity and so I think you guys are unbelievably naive on this topic and you're letting
00:25:31
your ideology fight your common sense the reality is that there are probably 95 billion
00:25:40
trillion use cases that are incredibly positive but the 1000 negative use cases are so
00:25:46
destructive and they're equally possible and the reason they're equally possible
00:25:50
and this is where I think there's a lot of intellectual dishonesty here is we don't even know how Transformers work
00:25:56
the best thing that happened when Facebook open sourced llama was also that somebody stealthily released all
00:26:02
the model weights yeah okay so I don't think a little bit for a neophyte what we're talking about so so
00:26:09
there's the model and there's the weights think about it as it's a solution to a problem the solution looks
00:26:14
like a polynomial equation okay let's take a very simple one let's take Pythagorean theorem you know x squared
00:26:20
plus y squared equals z squared okay so if you want to solve an answer to a problem you have these weights you have
00:26:27
these variables and you have these weights associated with it the slope of a line Y equals MX plus b okay what a
00:26:34
computer does with AI is it figures out what the variables are and it figures out what the weights are
00:26:39
the answer to identifying images flawlessly turns out to be 2x plus 7 where x equals this thing
00:26:49
now take that example and multiply it by 500 billion parameters and 500 billion weights and that is what
00:26:58
an AI model essentially gives us to as an answer to a question so even when Facebook released llama
00:27:05
what they essentially gave us was the equation but not the weights and then what this guy did I think it
00:27:11
was an intern apparently or somebody he just looked the weights so that we immediately knew what the structure of
00:27:17
the equation looked like so that's what we're basically solving against but we don't know how these
00:27:23
things work we don't really know how Transformers work and so this is my point when I think you guys are right
00:27:29
about yes the overwhelming majority of the use cases but there will be people who can nefariously create havoc and
00:27:36
chaos and I think you got to slow the whole ship down to prevent those few folks from ruining it for everybody
00:27:46
I haven't had a chance to chime in on my position so I'd like to just move mine nobody cares okay well I do I think
00:27:54
actually I split the difference here a little bit I don't think it needs to be an agency in licensing I do think we
00:27:58
have to have a commission and we do need to have people being thoughtful about those thousand use cases chamoth because
00:28:03
they are going to cause societal harm or things that we cannot anticipate and then number two for the neophyte with
00:28:11
the 1600 rating on chess.com sax gardes an announcement to the opponent that their Queen is under direct attack
00:28:18
similar to the announcement of check the warning was customary until the early 20th century so since you do not know
00:28:23
the history of check now you've learned something here early 20th century okay well since I've only played chess in the
00:28:28
20th and 21st centuries I'm unaware of that Jake Owen French is pronounced in the context of what we're talking
00:28:39
about that models are becoming smaller and can be run on the edge and there's obviously hundreds and thousands of
00:28:45
variants of these open source models that have you know good effect and perhaps compete with some of these these
00:28:53
models that you're mentioning that are closed source how do you regulate that how do you and
00:28:58
then they sit behind an application and they sit behind tooling yeah I think in order for you to be able to compile that
00:29:04
model to generate that initial instantiation you're still running it in a cluster of thousands of gpus but let's
00:29:11
say we're past that you can't be past that we're not past that yet okay we don't have five million models we don't
00:29:18
have all kinds of things that solve all kinds of problems we don't have an open source available simulation of every
00:29:24
single molecule in the world including all the toxic materials that could destroy humans we don't have that yet so
00:29:30
before that is created and shrunk down to an iPhone I think we need to put some stage gates up to slow people down what
00:29:37
do you mean by those stage kids yeah I think you need some form of kyc I think before you're allowed to run a massive
00:29:43
cluster to generate the model that then you try to shrink you need to be able to show people that
00:29:48
you're not trying to do something absolutely chaotic or have it creating that I don't think that that could be as
00:29:54
simple as putting your driver's license in your social security number that you're working on an instance in a cloud
00:29:59
right it could be your putting your name on your work it becomes slightly more nuanced than that it's like I think that
00:30:05
Jake out that's probably the simplest thing for AWS gcp and Azure to do which is that if you want to run over a
00:30:13
certain number of GPU clusters you need to put in that information I think you also need to put in your tax ID number
00:30:18
so I think if you want to run a real high scale model that's still going to run you tens or hundreds of millions of
00:30:23
dollars I do think there aren't that many people running those things and I do think it's easy to police those and
00:30:29
say what are you trying to do here so let me just push back on that because Mosaic ml published this model that is
00:30:35
let me I can pull up the the performance chart or Nick maybe you can just find it
00:30:39
on their website real quick or the new model they publish to mock they trained this model
00:30:43
on open source data that's publicly available and they spent two hundred thousand
00:30:50
dollars on a cluster run to build this model and look at how it performs compared to some of the top models that
00:30:56
are closed Source just say it for the people who are listening yeah so for people that are listening basically this
00:31:00
model is called MPT 7B that's the name of the AI model the llm model that was generated by this group called Mosaic ml
00:31:10
and they spent two hundred thousand dollars creating this model from scratch and the data that they trained it on is
00:31:16
all listed here it's all publicly available data that you can just download off the internet then they
00:31:20
score how well it performs on its results against other big models out there like llama 7B
00:31:27
I know but I don't exactly know what the actual problems they're trying to ask it
00:31:32
to compare right so the but the point is that this model theoretically could then
00:31:37
be applied to a different data set once it's been you know built I don't know this is you know I just want to use your
00:31:43
point earlier about toxic chemistry because models were generated and then other data was then used to fine-tune
00:31:50
those models and deliver an output hold on a second like those answers were to specific kinds of questions
00:31:56
if you wanted to all of a sudden ask totally orthogonal thing of that model that model would fail you would have to
00:32:02
go back and you'd have to retrain it that training does cost some amount of money so if you said to me hmoth I could
00:32:09
build you a model trained on the universe of every single molecule in the world and I could actually give you
00:32:15
something that could generate the toxic list of all the molecules and how to make it for two hundred thousand dollars
00:32:20
I would be really scared I don't think that that's possible today so I don't understand these actual tests
00:32:26
but I don't think it's true that you could take this model and these model weights apply to a different set of data
00:32:32
and get useful answers but let's let's assume for a minute that you can in fact take two hundred thousand dollars worth
00:32:38
it here's my point I want to tell you what's happening right now which is that's not possible so we should stop so
00:32:46
that then I don't have to have this argument with you in a year from now which is like hey some jack jerk off
00:32:51
just created this model now the cat's out of the bag so let's not do it yeah and and then what's going to happen is
00:32:57
like some chaotic seeking organization is going to print one of these materials and release it into the wild to prove it
00:33:03
but here's the point for the audience we are at a moment in time where this is moving very quickly and you have very
00:33:08
intelligent people here who are very knowledgeable talking about to the degree to which
00:33:13
this is going to manifest itself not if it will manifest you are absolutely 100 certain Freeburg that somebody will do
00:33:19
something very bad in terms of the chemical example as but one we're only determining here what level of hardware
00:33:27
and what year that will happen chimatha saying we know it's going to happen whether it's 2 or 10 or you know five
00:33:33
years let's be thoughtful about it and I think you know this discussion we're having here I think
00:33:39
on a spectrum it's this is a unique moment where the most knowledgeable people across every single political Spectrum
00:33:49
persuasion for-profit non-profit Democrat Republican right Elon and Sam will just use those as the two canonical
00:33:56
examples to demonstrate are pro-regulation and then the further and further you get away the less
00:34:02
technically astute you are the more anti-regulation and like pro-market you are and all I'm saying is I think that
00:34:08
should also be noted that that's a unique moment that the only other time that that's happened was around nuclear
00:34:14
weapons and you know that's when Einstein I actually think I think it's politically
00:34:21
incorrected right now I think because of what you're saying well just give me a second I think because of what you're
00:34:26
saying everyone on the left and the right it's it's become popular to be pro-regulation on AI and to say that AI
00:34:32
is going to Doom the world and it's unpopular and absolutely explained my point of view on Sam elon's
00:34:39
different but I think like it I think it's become Politically Incorrect to stand up and say you know what this is a
00:34:45
transformative technology for Humanity I don't think that there's a real path to
00:34:48
regulation I think that I totally there's laws that are in place that can protect us in other ways with respect to
00:34:54
privacy with respect to fraud with respect to biological warfare and all the other things that we should worry
00:34:59
about Elon has said pretty clearly he doesn't give a [ __ ] about what it does to make money or not he cares about what
00:35:04
he thinks so all I'm saying is that's a guy that's not trying to be politically correct Elon has a very specific concern
00:35:09
which is Agi he's concerned that we're on a path to a digital superintelligence it's a singularity and if we create the
00:35:16
wrong kind of artificial general intelligence that decides that it doesn't like humans that
00:35:23
is a real risk to the human species that's the concern he's expressed but that's not what the hearing was really
00:35:31
about and it's not what any of these regulatory proposals are about and the reality is none of these Senators know
00:35:37
what to do about that even the industry doesn't know what to do about the long-term risk of creating an AGI nobody
00:35:44
knows nobody really and so and so I actually I disagree with this idea that tomorrow early earlier you said that
00:35:50
there's a thousand use cases here that could destroy the human species I think there's only one there's only one
00:35:57
species level risk which is Agi but that's a long-term risk we don't know what to do about it yet I agree we
00:36:03
should have conversations what we're talking about today is whether we create some new licensure regime in Washington
00:36:09
so that politically connected insiders get to control and shape the software industry and that's a disaster let me
00:36:16
give you another detail on this so and one of the chat groups I'm in there was somebody
00:36:22
who just got back from Washington I won't say who they are it's not someone who's famous outside the industry but
00:36:28
they're kind of like a tech leader and what they said is they just got back from Capitol Hill and the White House
00:36:34
and I guess there's like a White House Summit on AI you guys know about that yeah so
00:36:41
what this person said is that the White House meeting was super depressing some smart people were there to be sure but
00:36:51
the White House and vp's teams were rapidly negative no real concern for the opportunity or economic impact just
00:36:58
super negative of course basically the mentality was that Tech is bad we hate social media this is the hot new thing
00:37:04
we have to stop it of course that basically is their attitude they don't understand the technology White House
00:37:09
yeah and the VP specifically because she's the now the AIS are to put Kamala Harris in charge of this makes no sense
00:37:15
I mean does she have any background in this like it just shows like a complete utter lack of awareness where is the
00:37:22
Megan Smith of course somebody like a CTO to be put in charge of this remember Megan Smith was CTO under I guess Obama
00:37:28
like you need somebody with a little more depth of experience here like hopefully you guys than saying your your
00:37:34
pro-regulation depending on who's in charge well I'm proud thoughtfulness I'm pro-lawfulness I'm illustrating that
00:37:41
really this whole new agency that's being discussed is just based on Vibes you're not down with the Vibes of Vibes
00:37:48
the vibe is that a bunch of people in Washington don't understand technology and they're afraid of it yeah
00:37:55
these are socialist David they're socialists they hate progress they are scared to death that jobs are going to
00:38:02
collapse they're socialists they they're union leaders this is their worst nightmare Because the actual truth of
00:38:08
this technology is 30 more efficiency and it's very mundane this is the truth here I think that Representatives have
00:38:16
30 more efficiency means Google Facebook and many other companies Finance education they do not add staff every
00:38:24
year they just get 30 more efficient every year and then we see unemployment go way up and Americans are going to
00:38:30
have to take service jobs and why collar jobs are going to be refined to like a very elite few people who actually do
00:38:37
work in the world there is absolutely a lot of new companies if humans can become if knowledge workers can become
00:38:43
30 more productive there'll be a lot of new companies absolutely and the biggest
00:38:47
shortage on our economy is coders right and we're going to have an unlimited number of them now they're all going to
00:38:51
go I don't know if it's unlimited but yes it's a good thing if you give them superpowers we've talked about this
00:38:55
before yeah yeah so I think it's too soon to be concluding that we need to stop job displacement that hasn't even
00:39:02
occurred yet I'm not saying it's actually going to happen I do agree there'll be more startups I'm seeing it
00:39:06
already I just think that's what they fear that's their fear is and that's the fear of the EU the EU is going to be
00:39:12
protection unionist protect Pro workers aren't going to be affected because these are not blue-collar jobs we're
00:39:18
talking about these are knowledge unions at all the media companies created unions and look at them they're all
00:39:23
going circling all these media companies are circling the training going into their business but that's on the margins
00:39:27
I mean that's not just trying to start Tech unions sure they're trying to start them but when we think of unionized
00:39:32
workers you're thinking about Factory workers and these people are not affected okay listen this has been an
00:39:38
incredible debate this is why you tune into the pod a lot of things can be true at the same
00:39:42
time I really think the analogy of the the atom bomb is really interesting because what Elon is scared about with
00:39:48
General artificial intelligence is nuclear Holocaust the whole planet blows up between those two things are things
00:39:54
like Nagasaki and Hiroshima or a dirty bomb and many other possibilities with nuclear power you know Fukushima you
00:40:03
know Etc so less than the Hiroshima not yet right and you know the question is is a three mile island is a Fukushima is
00:40:12
a Nagasaki are those things probable and I think we are all looking at this saying there will be something bad that
00:40:18
will happen there will be the equivalent strings together and these large language models string together words in
00:40:25
really interesting ways and they give computers the ability to have a natural language interface that is so far from
00:40:30
AGI I think it's a company hold on I think it's obviously the ability to understand language and
00:40:37
communicate in a natural way is a component of a future AGI but by itself these are models for stringing together
00:40:44
language auto GPT where these things go out and pursue things without any interference I would be the first one to
00:40:51
say that if you wanted to scope models to be able to just do human language back and forth
00:40:58
on the broad open internet you know there's probably a form David where these chat GPT products can exist
00:41:06
I don't I think that those are quite benign I agree with you but I think what Jason is saying is that every week
00:41:12
you're you're taking a leap forward and already with auto gpts you're talking about code that runs in the background
00:41:18
without supervision it's not a human interface that's like hey show me how to color my
00:41:23
cookies green for St Patty's Day it's on my trip to Italy yeah yeah it's not doing that so I just think that there's
00:41:30
there's a place well beyond what you're talking about and I think you're minimizing the problem a little bit by
00:41:34
just kind of saying the whole class of AI is just chat GPT and asking kid asking it to help it with its homework
00:41:41
this example I hate to say it out loud but somebody could say here is the history of financial crimes that were
00:41:47
committed and other hacks please with their own model on their own server say please come up with other ideas for
00:41:54
hacks be as creative as possible and steal as much money as possible and put that in an auto GPT David and study all
00:42:00
hacks that occur in the history of hacking and it could just create super chaos around the world and your computer
00:42:06
history is going to regret buying into this narrative because the members of the Judiciary Committee are doing the
00:42:11
same Playbook they ran back in 2016 after that election they ran all these hearings on disinformation claiming that
00:42:17
social networks been used to hack the election it was all a phony narrative hold on look what happened
00:42:24
the Russians hacked who had to write out that stop they thought they got all these Tech CEOs to buy into that phony
00:42:30
narrative why because it's a lot easier for the tech CEOs to agree and tell the centers what they want to hear to get
00:42:36
them off their backs and then what did that lead to a whole censorship industrial complex so we're going to do
00:42:43
the same thing here we're going to buy into these phoning names the centers off our backs and that's going to create
00:42:48
this giant AI industrial complex that's going to slow down real Innovation and be a burden on entrepreneurs okay
00:42:55
lightning round lightning round we got to move on three more topics I want to hit let's keep going if honor to become
00:43:00
an evil more evil yeah what is it called an evil uh comic book character a super
00:43:06
villain a super villain if you wanted to be an even more loathsome super villain
00:43:11
continue I would take every single virus patch that's been developed and publicized learn on them and then find
00:43:19
the next zero day exploit on a whole bunch of stuff I mean it's just like even publish that idea please don't I
00:43:23
mean I'm I'm worried about publishing that idea that's not an intellectual leap I mean you have to be a dollar it's
00:43:29
obvious okay let's move on another great debate Elon hired a CEO for Twitter Linda yakarino I'm hoping pronouncing
00:43:38
that correct was the head of AD sales that NBC Universal she's a legend in the advertising business
00:43:43
she worked at Turner for 15 years before that she is a workaholic is what she says she's going to take over everything
00:43:49
but product and CTO elon's going to stick with that she seems to be very moderate and she follows people on
00:43:58
the left or right people are starting the character assassination and trying to figure out her politics
00:44:04
and that she was involved with the w World economic Forum which anybody in business basically does
00:44:10
but your take sacks on this choice for CEO and what this means just broadly for the next six months because we're
00:44:19
sitting here at six months almost exactly since Elon took over obviously you and I were involved in month one but
00:44:24
but not much after that what do you think the next six months holds and what do you think her role is going to be
00:44:28
obviously some precedent this for this with you know why not as basic listen I think this Choice makes sense on this
00:44:37
level Twitter's business model is advertising Elon does not like selling advertising she's really good at selling
00:44:43
advertising so he's chosen a CEO to work with who's highly complimentary to him in their skill sets and interests and I
00:44:52
think that makes sense I think there's a lot of logic in that what Elon likes doing is the technology and product side
00:44:58
of the business he actually doesn't really like the let's call it the standard business
00:45:05
chores and especially related to like we said advertising stuff with advertisers I think it's his
00:45:13
personal nightmare right so I think the choice makes sense on that level now yeah instantly you're right her hiring
00:45:19
led to attacks from both the left and the right the right you know pointed out her views on covet and vaccines and her
00:45:27
work with the wef and then on the left I mean the attack is that she's following
00:45:32
Libs at Tick Tock which you're just not allowed to do apparently a follow is not
00:45:36
an endorsement well if you're just following lives of tick tock they want to say you're some crazy right winger
00:45:40
now well she also follows David sacks so that does mean that she's pretty that that is a signal but the truth is if you
00:45:47
sax correct me if I'm wrong here or trim off maybe I'll send it to you if you pick somebody that both sides dislike or
00:45:53
are trying to take apart you probably pick the right person yeah here's what I think okay go ahead we're
00:45:58
not going to know how good she is for six to nine months but here's what I took a lot of
00:46:04
joy out of here's a guy who gets attacked for all kinds of things now right he's an anti-semite apparently
00:46:13
and then he had to be like I'm very Pro semi he's a guy that all of a sudden people think is a conspiracy theorist
00:46:18
he's a guy that people think is now on the Raging right all these things that are just like inaccuracies basically
00:46:25
fire bombs thrown by the left but here's what I think is the most interesting thing for a guy that
00:46:32
theoretically is supposed to be a troll and everything else he has a female chairman of Tesla a female CEO at
00:46:39
Twitter and a female president at SpaceX of course it's a great Insight it's the
00:46:44
same insight I think a lot of these virtual signaling lunatics on the left virtue signaling
00:46:50
mids and you know what like they're all new house Elizabeth Warren and and Bernie Sanders giving you know the CEO
00:46:59
of Starbucks a hard time when he doubled the pay of the minimum wage gave them you love mid right that's a great term
00:47:09
isn't it these [ __ ] mids and I paid for the college tuition what gives you the right
00:47:16
at Starbucks to pay for college tuition and double the minimum wage I don't know why it's so funny to me
00:47:23
isn't it so great like just because you can picture them when I say that these are these mids feverishly typing on
00:47:29
their keyboards their virtue signaling nonsense sex wrapping it up yeah look like you said Elon has worked
00:47:35
extremely well with Gwen Shotwell who's the president of SpaceX for a long time and I think that relationship shows
00:47:43
the way to make it work here at Twitter which is they have a very culinary skill
00:47:47
set I think my understanding is that Gwen focuses on the business side and the sales side of the operation Elon
00:47:52
focuses on product and Technology she lets Elon be Elon I think if Linda tries to Reign Elon in tell him not to tweet
00:48:00
or tries to meddle in the Free Speech aspects of the business which is the whole reason he bought Twitter
00:48:07
yeah that's right that's when it will fall apart so my advice would be let alone Be Elon you know he bought this
00:48:14
company to make it a free speech platform don't mess with that and I think it could work great and a free
00:48:21
speech platform it is when you are saying anything about covid and I really don't even want to say it here because I
00:48:26
don't want our to even say the word covet or vaccine means that this could get tagged by YouTube and BD you know
00:48:33
algor the algorithm could could uh D um I don't know what they call it deprecate this and when we don't show up
00:48:40
and people don't see us because we just said the word covet I mean the censorship built into these algorithms
00:48:44
is absurd but speaking of absurd Nina Khan who has been the least effective FTC chair
00:48:51
I think started out pretty promising with some interesting ideas she's now moved a
00:48:56
block of major Pharma deal and December Amgen agreed to acquire Dublin based Horizon Therapeutics for 27.8 billion
00:49:05
this is the largest Pharma deal announced in 2022. FTC has filed a lawsuit in federal court seeking an
00:49:09
injunction that would prevent the deal from closing the reasoning is the deal would allow Amgen to entrench the
00:49:15
Monopoly positions of Horizon's eye and gout drugs the agency said that those treatments
00:49:21
don't face any competition today and that Amgen would have a strong incentive to prevent any potential Robbers from
00:49:27
introducing similar drugs chamoth the pharmaceutical industry is a little bit different than the tech
00:49:32
industry insanity explain why and then sax will go to you on the gout stuff because I know that
00:49:38
personally impacts you go ahead I think that this is a little like scientifically illiterate to be honest
00:49:45
unpack the thing is that you want drugs that can get to Market quickly but at the same time you want drugs to be safe
00:49:52
and you want drugs to be effective and I think that the FDA has a pretty reasonable process and one of the direct
00:50:00
byproducts of that process is that if you have a large indication that you're going after say diabetes you have to do
00:50:06
an enormous amount of work it has to be run on effectively thousands of people you have to stratify it by age you have
00:50:13
to stratified by gender you have to stratify it by race you have to do it across different geographies right the
00:50:19
bar is high but the reason the bar is high is that if you do get approval these all of a sudden become these
00:50:25
Blockbuster 10 20 30 billion dollar drugs okay and they improve people's lives and they allow people to live
00:50:33
etc etc what has happened in the last 10 or 15 years because of wall Street's influence
00:50:39
inside of the Pharma companies is that what Pharma has done a very good job of doing is
00:50:47
actually pushing off a lot of this very risky r d to Young early stage biotech companies
00:50:54
and they typically do the first part of the work they get through a phase one they even may be able to sometimes go
00:51:01
and start a phase two trial a two-way trial and then they typically can get sold to Pharma and these are
00:51:09
like multi-billion dollar transactions and the reason is that the private markets just don't have the money
00:51:16
to support the risk for these companies to be able to do all the way through a phase three clinical trial because it
00:51:21
would cost in some cases five six seven eight billion dollars you've never heard
00:51:26
of a tech company raising that much money except in a few rare cases in far in in biotech it just doesn't
00:51:32
happen so you need the m a machine to be able to incentivize these young companies to even get started in the
00:51:38
first place otherwise what literally happens is you have a whole host of diseases that just stagnate okay
00:51:47
and instead what happens is a younger company can only raise money to go after smaller diseases which have smaller
00:51:53
populations smaller Revenue potential smaller costs because the trial infrastructure is just less
00:51:59
so if you don't want industry to be in this negative Loop where you only work on the small diseases and you actually
00:52:06
go and tackle the big ones you need to allow these kinds of transactions to happen the last thing
00:52:11
I'll say is that even when these big transactions happen half the time they turn out to still not work there is
00:52:17
still huge risk so don't get caught up in the dollar size you have to understand the phase it's in and the
00:52:23
best example of this is the biggest outcome in in biotech private investing in Silicon Valley was this thing called
00:52:29
stem Centrics and that thing was a 10 billion dollar dud right but it allowed all these other companies to get started
00:52:35
after semcentrics got bought for 10 billion freeberg I want to get your take on this especially in light of maybe
00:52:42
something people don't understand which is the the amount of time you get to actually exclusively monetize a drug
00:52:49
because my understanding you correct me if I'm wrong you get a 20-year patent it's from the date you file it but then
00:52:55
you're working towards getting this drug approved by the FDA so by the time the FDA approves a drug this 20-year patent
00:53:01
window how many years do you actually have exclusively to monetize that drug and then your wider thoughts on this FTA
00:53:07
yeah I'm not going to answer that question right now because I do want to kind of push back on the point I'm
00:53:13
generally pretty negative on a lot of the comments Lena Khan's made and her positioning and obviously as you guys
00:53:18
know we've talked about it on the show but I read the FTC uh filing it's in um federal court
00:53:26
and if you read the filing let me just start the company that Amgen is trying to buy it's called Horizon Therapeutics
00:53:30
which is a company that's doing about 4 billion in Revenue a year about a billion to a billion and a half in
00:53:35
ebitda so it's a it's a business that's got a portfolio of orphaned drugs meaning drugs that treat orphan
00:53:41
conditions that aren't very big Blockbusters in the in the pharmaceutical drug context
00:53:46
and so it's it's a nice portfolio of cast generating drugs Amgen buying the business gives them real Revenue really
00:53:54
but uh and helps bolster portfolio that you know is aging and I think that's a big part of the Strategic driver for
00:54:02
Amgen to make this massive 28 billion dollar acquisition the ftc's claim in the filing which I actually read and I
00:54:11
was like this is actually a pretty good claim is that the way that Amgen sets the prices for their pharmaceutical
00:54:17
drugs is they go to the insurance companies the payers and the health systems and they negotiate drug pricing
00:54:23
and they often do bulk multi-product deals so they'll say hey we'll give you access to those products at this price
00:54:31
point but we need you to pay this price point for this product and over time that drives price inflation it drives
00:54:36
costs up and it also makes it difficult for new competitors to emerge because they tell the insurance company you have
00:54:41
to pick our drug over other drugs in order to get this discounted price and so it's a big part of their
00:54:47
negotiating strategy that they do with insurance companies so the ftc's claim is that by giving Amgen this large
00:54:53
portfolio of drugs that they're buying from Horizon it's going to give them more negotiating leverage and the
00:54:58
ability to do more of this drug blocking that they do with insurance companies and other payers in the drug system so
00:55:04
they're trying to prevent pharmaceutical drug price inflation and they're trying
00:55:08
to increase competition in their lawsuit so I felt like it was a fairly kind of compelling case I'm no lawyer on
00:55:14
Anti-Trust and monopolistic practices and the Sherman Act but this was not sorry let me just say this was not an
00:55:19
early stage biotech risky deal that they're trying to block a mature company with four billion in revenue and a
00:55:26
billion and a half in ebitda I understand and yeah I read it too but two comments
00:55:30
it is because the people that traffic in these stocks are the same ones that fund
00:55:34
these early stage biotech companies and I talked to a bunch of them and they're like if these guys block this kind of
00:55:39
deal we're going to get out of this game entirely so just from the horse's mouth
00:55:44
what I'm telling you is you're going to see a Paul come over the early stage Venture financing landscape because a
00:55:49
lot of these guys that are crossover investors that own a lot of these public biotech stocks that also fund the
00:55:54
private stocks will change their risk posture if they can't make money that's just the nature of capitalism
00:56:00
the second thing is Lena Khan did something really good about what you're talking about this week actually which
00:56:06
is she actually went after the pbms and if you really care about drug inflation and you follow the dollars the real
00:56:12
culprits around this are the pharmacy benefit managers and she actually launched a big investigation into them
00:56:18
but this is what speaks to the two different approaches it seems that unfortunately for the FTC every merger
00:56:25
just gets contested for the sake of it being contested because I think that if you wanted to
00:56:30
actually stop price inflation there are totally different mechanisms because why
00:56:34
didn't you just Sue all the pbms well there's no merger to be done but you can investigate and then you could regulate
00:56:41
and I think that that's probably a more effective way and the fact that she targeted the PPM says that somebody in
00:56:46
there actually understands where the price inflation is coming from but I don't think something like an Amgen
00:56:52
Horizon because what I think will happen is all the folks will then just basically say well man if if these kinds
00:56:59
of things can't get bought then why am I funding these other younger things yeah
00:57:02
but you know yeah we're just not seeing a lot of the younger stuff get get get blocked I don't think we've seen any
00:57:08
attempts at blocking speculative portfolio Acquisitions or speculative company Acquisitions so I think these
00:57:14
guys are getting caught up in the dollar number you know yeah so I think the problem is they see 28 billion they're
00:57:19
like we need to stop it you know what's amazing I'll just wrap on this because it's a good discussion but I think we
00:57:24
got to keep moving here is I took the PDF that you shared and I put it into chat GPT now oh wow and you don't need
00:57:32
to upload the PDF anymore you could just say summarize this and put the link and
00:57:36
it did it instantly are using the browsing Plugin or I just used chat GP no it's not the browser
00:57:43
plugin I just did this is the 3.5 model and it pulled the link in the GPT 3.5 model I don't know I could do that
00:57:52
that's new they must have added browse me in the background yeah or just pulling it they did today by the way
00:57:57
whoa they did it today yeah remember last week we said that they had to build browsing into the actual product like
00:58:04
Bard right otherwise they're moving I gotta get it today yeah closed AI is on the top of their game
00:58:10
the app is available in the App Store now right as of today no they they had a test app I was on the test flight no no
00:58:16
no they just launched the app they did oh that's game over man if this thing is an app form that's going to 10x the
00:58:21
number of users and it's going to 10x the amount of usage by the way I tested the same thing for Bard we should
00:58:26
compare the two but amazing pretty good as well yeah yeah wow to actually compare its summary with chat GPT
00:58:33
summary okay tell us which one's better some interesting news here you know we speaking of platform shifts do I get to
00:58:42
get my view on the Lena con thing oh well yes I was getting a little personal here
00:58:51
David and I didn't I didn't want to trigger you I know you've been struggling with the gout
00:58:55
because of your lifestyle choices the alcohol the the foie gras everything but no you've lost a lot of way to give you
00:59:01
a lot of credit tell us what do you think about the bundling we're seeing here because it does seem Microsoft asks
00:59:06
with the operating system yeah it's very similar and what I said in the context of tech is that we should focus on the
00:59:11
anti-competitive tactics and stop those rather than blocking all mergers and I think the same thing is happening on the
00:59:17
Pharma space if bundling is the problem focus on bundling the problem when you just block M A is that you deny
00:59:25
early investors one of the biggest ways that they can make a positive outcome and what's the downstream effect of that
00:59:31
yeah exactly look it is hard enough to make money as either a former investor or as a VC that there's only two good
00:59:38
outcomes right there's IPOs there's M A's everything else basically goes everything else is a zero it goes
00:59:43
bankrupt so if you take M A off the table you really suppress the already challenge returns
00:59:51
of venture capital yeah well said well said and you're right you mentioned earlier that we were willing to give
00:59:56
Lena Khan a chance we thought that some of our ideas were really interesting because I think there are these huge
01:00:02
tech companies that do need to be regulated these big Tech monopolies basically that you have the mobile
01:00:08
operating system duopoly with Apple and Google and you've got Amazon you've got Microsoft and there is a huge risk of
01:00:14
those companies uh preferring their own applications over Downstream applications or using these bundling
01:00:20
tactics yes if you don't put some limits around that that creates I think an unhealthy Tech ecosystem this is the
01:00:27
insight and I think it's exactly correct sex ferlina Khan I know she listens to the
01:00:32
Pod hey Lena you want to go after tactics not Acquisitions so if somebody buys something and they lower prices and
01:00:40
increases consumer Choice that's great if it encourages more people to invest more money into Innovation that's great
01:00:48
but if the tactics are we're going to bundle these drugs together to keep some number of them artificially high or
01:00:53
reduce choice or if we're going to bundle features into the you know Suite of products and we do anti-competitive
01:00:59
stuff you have to look at the tactics on the field are people cheating and are they using the Monopoly power to force
01:01:06
you to use their App Store just make apple have a second app store that's all we're asking you to do there should be
01:01:12
an app store on iOS that doesn't charge any fees or charges one percent fees break the Monopoly on the App Store sax
01:01:22
is so right perfectly said she actually did Issue compulsory orders to the pbms so to your point sax the FTC has been
01:01:30
worried that what free Brook said had is been happening but the real sort of middlemen manipulator in this market are
01:01:36
the pharmacy benefit managers and so this week she actually issued compulsory orders to the pbms and said turn over
01:01:42
all your business records to me I'm going to look into them that makes a ton of sense but then on the same hand it's
01:01:48
like you see merger and you're like no it can't happen it just doesn't speak to a knowledge of the market we should have
01:01:54
Lena on hey Lena I know you listen to the Pod I've heard the back Channel just come on the Pod I should be a good guess
01:01:58
right we would have a good conversation with everything yeah uh open invite Nikki Haley's coming on the Pod by the
01:02:03
way you have homework to do for the summit which is to see if you can get Donald Trump to come to the summit okay
01:02:09
huge love J Cal love all in okay because you your mannerisms are unbelievable how did you practice it I
01:02:24
did I did a little bit only because I like to troll people and Trigger them I'm gonna really dial in my trump in the
01:02:29
coming weeks all right here we go Apple's long anticipated AR headset that stands for augmented reality which means
01:02:36
VR you can't see the real world you're just in uh in a virtual world AR lets you put
01:02:43
digital assets on the real world so you can see what's happening in the real world but you can put Graphics all
01:02:47
around that's expected to be revealed as early as June the projected cost is going to be around three thousand
01:02:56
dollars it won't ship into the fall this is a break from Apple's typical way of releasing products which is to
01:03:02
wait till it's perfect and to wait until all consumers can afford it this is a different approach they're going to give
01:03:07
this out to developers early and Tim Cook is supposedly pushing this there was another group of people inside
01:03:13
of Apple who did not want to release a jamaat but there is some sort of external
01:03:18
battery pack it seems like a bit of a Franken product Frankenstein kind of project here
01:03:24
that you know perhaps Steve Jobs wouldn't have wanted to release but he needs to get it out I think because
01:03:29
Oculus is making so much progress the killer app supposedly is a FaceTime like live chat experience that seems
01:03:36
interesting but they look like ski goggles on this as the next compute platform if
01:03:44
they can get it you know to work would you wear these would they have to be Prada what's the story here no and no
01:03:50
does this seem like a weird conversation because none of us [ __ ] know none of us have seen this product and none of us
01:03:54
have used it we were lucky friend of the podpa lucky says it's incredible so what
01:03:59
that's just like commenting on one guy's five letter five word tweets Palmer knows I mean Palmer invented
01:04:05
Oculus great but what are we talking about we have nothing to say about it what do we know about okay I'll a form
01:04:09
of a really good question here do you believe this is going to be a meaningful compute platform in the coming years
01:04:14
because apple is so good at product how do we know until we see it we gotta see it
01:04:19
of course they're of course they're good at product let's let's see the product though like all right fine sax what are
01:04:25
your thoughts I think it's a good thing that they're launching this like you said it is a deviation for what they've
01:04:29
normally done they normally don't release a product unless they believe the entire world can use it so their
01:04:36
approach has been only to release mass mass market products and have a very small portfolio of those products but
01:04:42
when those products work they're you know billion user home runs this obviously can't be at a three thousand
01:04:47
dollar price point and it also seems like it's a little bit of a early prototype where the batteries are like
01:04:53
in a fanny pack around your waist and there's a ways to go around this but I I give them credit for launching what is
01:05:00
probably going to be more of an early prototype so they could start iterating on it I mean the reality is the Apple
01:05:05
watch the first version kind of sucked and first five versions yeah now they're on one that's pretty good I think so
01:05:10
look I think this is a cool new platform they get knocked on for not innovating enough I think good let them try
01:05:16
something new I think this will be good for meta to have some competition yeah it's great having two major players in
01:05:23
the race maybe it actually speeds up the Innovation or maybe we get somewhere down here I mean I I think they should
01:05:30
have done something in cars what should they do in cars if you were going to talk about the car what would
01:05:38
it be tell me what you think would be the right approach you you were going to do the Facebook phone that could have
01:05:42
changed the entire Destiny of Facebook they should have bought Tesla when they could have the chance for four or five
01:05:46
billion they could have bought it for 10 billion 20 billion it's only when it got
01:05:50
to 50 60 that it got Out Of Reach what do you think the car should be they could have bought it at 100 billion they
01:05:55
could have bought 100 billion Tim Cook famously wouldn't take the meeting Elon said it he wouldn't he wouldn't be
01:05:59
bizarre bizarre maybe they missed an opportunity there but I do think the end game with the AR headsetter glasses
01:06:06
right yes where you get the screens and you get the Terminator mode and in con is that what is that these are just
01:06:13
glasses acting like they were like fancy technology this this size glasses is what you're talking about yeah when you
01:06:20
have like a little camera built in and heads-up construction with AI then it gets really interesting so that
01:06:26
that's the end game here I think give the audience an example of what this combination of AI plus AR could do when
01:06:31
you're walking around it could layer on intelligence about the world you meet with somebody and it can remind you of
01:06:37
their name and the last time you met with them and give you a summary of what you talked about
01:06:41
what action items there are you could be walking in a city and it could tell you it knows you like Peking
01:06:47
dock it could show you hey there's a peking dog place over here some reviews of it it just knows you and it's
01:06:51
customized in the world what about for people that do the same routine 99 of the time how does it gonna help you
01:06:56
though it could tell you your steps every day could tell you incoming messages so you don't have to take
01:07:01
yourself three thousand dollars on that no but you would spend people spending three years
01:07:07
to get your notifications on your wrists why do you want it on your eyes for three thousand I would love this maybe I
01:07:13
just do like a lot of meetings or I'm at events where people are coming up to me
01:07:17
and I've met them like once a year before like it would be really helpful to kind of have the terminal let's be
01:07:22
honest though the Terminator mode for you to be able to be present with your family and friends but be playing chess
01:07:28
with Peter TL on those glasses that's your dream come true you and Peter in AR playing chess all day long
01:07:36
throw up the picture of sax beating Peter Thiel I watched the clip from the earlier all in episodes when we
01:07:42
discussed you beating Peter Thiel what a great moment it was for you all right listen let's wrap up with this Gallup
01:07:47
survey the number of Americans who say it's a good time to buy a house has never been lower 21 say it's a good time
01:07:55
to buy a house down nine percent from the prior low of a year ago prior to 2022 50 or more consistently though
01:08:03
it was a good time to buy significantly significantly fewer expect local housing
01:08:07
prices to increase in the year hey uh Sachs is this like a predictive of a bottom and pure capitulation and
01:08:15
then that means maybe it is in fact a good time how would you read this data I don't see it as a bottom necessarily the
01:08:20
way I read the data is that the spike in interest rates have made it very unaffordable to buy a house right now
01:08:26
you've got you know the mortgages are what like seven percent interest rate or even slightly higher so people just
01:08:33
can't afford the same level of house that they did before I mean mortgages were at three three and a half percent
01:08:39
like a year and a half ago now I think what's kind of interesting is that even in the 1980s the early 1980s when
01:08:46
interest rates were at like 15 you still had 50 thought it was an okay time to buy a house or an attractive time to buy
01:08:53
a house so for the number to be this low tells me that it's not just about interest rates
01:09:00
I think consumer confidence is also plummeting and people are feeling more insecure so I think it's just another
01:09:09
economic indicator that things are looking really shaky right now and I'll tell you one of the the knock-on effects
01:09:15
of this is going to be that people can't move because in order to move you have to sell your current house and then buy
01:09:21
a new one and you're not going to want to sell your current house when prices are going down and then for the new one
01:09:27
you're going to lose your three percent mortgage enough to get a new one at seven percent so you're not going to buy
01:09:32
anything like the house so it freezes the market it freezes Mobility I think over the last few years during covid you
01:09:39
saw tremendous movement between states I think that's going to slow down a lot now because people just can't afford to
01:09:45
trade houses so as a result of that I think discontent is going to rise because I
01:09:51
think one of the ways that you create a pressure valve is when people are unhappy in a state they just move
01:09:56
somewhere else well now they're not able to do that well and you can also move to
01:09:58
a better opportunity for you and your family whether that schools taxes a job lifestyle so yeah you can you can you're
01:10:05
going to reduce joy in the country and it also it screws with price Discovery doesn't it if you if you don't have a
01:10:11
fluid Market here then how does anybody know what their house is worth and then this just again creates more I think of
01:10:17
a frost I think Friedberg has said this a couple times freeberg you can correct me if I'm wrong but like the the home is
01:10:23
like the disproportionate majority of most Americans wealth right mm-hmm it's all their wealth all their wealth
01:10:31
yeah so I mean there's that factoid yeah and then what does that do foreign what's going on they're bringing you
01:10:42
lunch no I was looking I was looking at uh mansion that's for sale 175 million dollars but they just got
01:10:53
the price to 140 so I'm just taking a little again I mean there's gonna be a lot of distress in the market soon I'm
01:10:59
predicting a lot of distress actually can we shift to the commercial side for a second I just passed away yeah Sam
01:11:05
Zell passed away today oh wow rest in peace yeah rest in peace uh Chicago uh um yeah crazy but speaking of bombastic
01:11:13
interesting guy yeah but speaking of the real estate market so I want to give an
01:11:16
update on San Francisco cre I was talking to a broker the other day and so here are the stats that they gave me so
01:11:25
it was a local broker and someone from Blackstone and they're fans of the Pod and just came up to me and we started
01:11:31
talking about what's happening in San Francisco shout out shout out to them didn't take a didn't take a photo but
01:11:36
but any event they're they're fans of the pot of so we start talking about what's happening in San Francisco real
01:11:41
estate so the SF office Market is just a level set is 90 million square feet they said
01:11:47
the vacancy rate is now 35 so that's over 30 million square feet vacant and vacancy still growing as Lisa's end and
01:11:55
companies shed space because some of that space that they're not using is not up for sublease everyone says what about
01:12:00
AI is AI going to be the Savior the problem is that AI companies are only that's only about a million square feet
01:12:07
of demand so one million out of 30 million is going to be absorbed by Ai and you know maybe that number grows
01:12:14
over time over the next five ten years as we create some really big AI companies but it's just not going to
01:12:19
bail out San Francisco right now the other thing is that you know VC backed startups are very demanding in terms of
01:12:26
their tenant improvements and landlords don't really have the capital right now to put that into the buildings and
01:12:31
storms just are not the kind of credit worthy tenants that landlords really want so this is not going to bail
01:12:38
anybody out there they said there are a ton of zombie office Towers especially in Soma and all these office towers are
01:12:45
eventually going to be owned by the Banks which you have to liquidate them and then we're going to find out that
01:12:49
these loans that they made are gonna have to be written off because the collateral that they thought was Blue
01:12:55
Chip that was backing up those loans is not so blue chip anymore so I think we've got not just a huge
01:13:01
commercial real estate problem but it's going to be a big banking problem as basically people stop pretending you
01:13:07
know right now they're trying to restructure loans it's called pretend and extend you reduce the rate on the
01:13:12
loan but add term to it but that only works for so long if this keeps going if the market keeps looking like this I
01:13:19
think we're gonna have a real problem and and that will be a problem in the banking system now San Francisco is the
01:13:24
worst of the worst but they said that New York is similar and all these other big cities with empty office towers are
01:13:29
directionally I'm in New York right now for the side connections conference and uh
01:13:34
it is packed the city is packed getting anywhere there's gridlock you can't walk
01:13:41
down the street you got to walk around people every restaurant it is dynamic and then I talk to people about offices
01:13:46
and they said people are staying in their houses in their tiny little New York apartments instead of going three
01:13:52
train stops to their office they go to the office one or two days a week unless you're like JP Morgan or some other
01:13:57
places that's that Drop the Boom but there's a lot of people still working from home the finance people
01:14:03
have all gone back media people are starting to go back so there are three to five days here and the city is
01:14:09
booming contrast that I spent the last two weeks in San Francisco walking from Soma to
01:14:14
the Embarcadero back dead nobody in the city it like literally a ghost town it's a
01:14:21
real shame it's a real real shame I wonder if these this is the question I have for you sacks can they cut a deal
01:14:30
can they go to like month to month rent sublets you know loosey-goosey just give
01:14:35
people any dollar amount to convince them to come back is there any dollar amount because I'm looking for a space
01:14:40
for the incubator in San Mateo I've been getting a ton of inbound but the prices are still really
01:14:45
high and I'm like how do I cut a deal here because shouldn't people be lowering the prices dramatically or are
01:14:53
they all just pretending or will I get a lower Ritz or definitely coming down big
01:14:57
time especially for space that sort of commodity and not that desirable but what's happening is according to the
01:15:02
people I talk to is that the demand the people who actually are looking for new space they only want to be in the best
01:15:08
areas and they want to be in the newest buildings that have the best amenities and so uh that sort of commodity office
01:15:14
tower where there's barely anybody ever there like no one wants that um people would rather pay a higher rent I mean
01:15:21
the rent will still be much lower probably half the price of what it used to be but they'd rather pay a little bit
01:15:26
more for that than get like a zombie office tower we can't talk about all this without talking about two cases
01:15:32
tragically a shoplifter a criminal who was stealing from a drugstore in San Francisco I got
01:15:41
shot and the video was released I'm sure you've seen in sacks and then here in New York everybody's talking about this
01:15:47
one instance of a Marine trying to subdue a violent homeless person with two other
01:15:55
people and it's on everybody's Minds here and Brooke Jenkins is not Prosecuting in San Francisco the shooter
01:16:03
they look like you know a clean shoot as they would say in the police business an appropriate
01:16:09
and it's tragic to say it is but the person did charge the security guard the security guard did fear for their life
01:16:15
and shot him so Brook Jenkins is not going to pursue anything but in New York City they're pursuing manslaughter for
01:16:21
the person who did seem a bit excessive from the video it's hard to tell what the reality is in these situations any
01:16:27
thoughts on it David these two cases in Two Cities yeah look I mean the only time you can
01:16:33
get a source da excited about Prosecuting someone is when they act in self-defense or defensive others I mean
01:16:39
this Marine I guess Daniel penny is his name he was acting in defense of others the person who he stopped
01:16:47
was someone with an extensive criminal record who had just recently engaged in a attempted kidnapping who had punched
01:16:56
elderly people had pretty gnarly dozens of arrests in fact people on Reddit were talking about
01:17:03
how dangerous this person was apparently a dozen years ago or so he was seen as more of like a quirky like Michael
01:17:11
Jackson impersonator street performer street performer but something happened this is according to a Reddit post that
01:17:18
I saw where something happened and there was some sort of psychological break and
01:17:22
then since then he's had dozens and dozens of primes and they just keep letting him loose through this revolving
01:17:30
door of a justice system we have and now look no one likes to see him basically dying and yeah it's too bad it's
01:17:38
horrible that that happened tragic I don't know though that if you're trying to stop someone I don't know how easy it
01:17:45
is to precisely control whether you use too much force or not so I think Daniel penny has a strong case that he was
01:17:53
acting in self-defense and defense of others and there were two other people by the way who were holding this person
01:17:57
down there were three of them restraining him and what universally New Yorker said to me of all different
01:18:04
backgrounds was this is not a race issue the other I think one or two of the other people were people of color it was
01:18:09
not a race issue and they're trying to make it into a race issue in both these cases and it's this is literally what
01:18:15
happens it's just having been through this in New York in the 70s and 80s when you do so who's they who's they when you
01:18:21
say trying to make it a bunch of protests on the street both in San Francisco and New York people protesting these as
01:18:27
you know justice issues the fact is if you do not if you allow lawlessness for too long a
01:18:33
period of time you get a Bernie gets situation and Bernie gets people can look it up in the 80s I was a kid when
01:18:40
it happened but they tried to mug somebody he had a gun he shot him and like this is what happens if you allow
01:18:46
lawlessness for extended periods of time it's just you're basically gambling and
01:18:52
what happened to Bernie Getz he got knocked guilty the case he got not guilty but I think he had an illegal gun
01:18:58
so he was guilty of that the Bernie gets thing was really um crazy because at the
01:19:04
time the climate in New York in this 1984 shooting there was a portion of people who I
01:19:12
don't want to say they made him a hero but they made it a c this is what happens if you allow us to be assaulted
01:19:19
forever we're going to fight back at some point that was the vibe in New York when I was a child that was 14 15 years
01:19:24
old when this happened he was charged with attempted murder assault what was the name of that vigilante group that
01:19:30
used to walk the streets to something angels that was the um Guardian Angels Guardian Angels so it was so bad in the
01:19:36
80s and I actually almost signed up for the guardian angels I went to their headquarters because I was practicing
01:19:40
martial arts and I thought I would check it out and um they had their office in Hell's Kitchen I didn't wind up joining
01:19:46
but what they would do is they would just ride the subway they would wear a certain type of hat
01:19:51
and wear a guardian angel shirt and all they did was arrested the Subways a red beret and they would just ride the
01:19:57
subways and you felt kind of martial arts were you taking Taekwondo I was in Taekwondo
01:20:02
yeah this is before a mixed martial arts but they just rode the Subways and honestly I've been on the Subways with
01:20:08
them many times you felt safe and it wasn't Vigilantes they were garden angels they used that term and many
01:20:14
times they would do exactly what this Marine did which is try to subdue somebody who was committing crime I was
01:20:20
I had two distinct instances where people tried to mug me you know riding the Subways in New York in the 80s
01:20:27
two distinct times and one was a group of people and one was one person like it was pretty scary
01:20:33
both times I navigated it but it was yeah not pleasant in the 80s in New York can I say one more thing about this
01:20:39
Daniel Penny Jordan Neely case so look at the end of the day this is going to be litigated I don't know all the
01:20:45
details they're gonna have to litigate whether Daniel Penny's use of force was was excessive or not but but here's the
01:20:50
thing is that the media has been falsely representing Jordan Neely by only posting 10 year old photos of him and
01:20:58
leaving out crucial information this was a press report so again this is why I mentioned the whole Michael Jackson
01:21:03
impersonator thing is that the media keeps portraying nearly as this innocent harmless guy who is this like delightful
01:21:09
Michael Jackson impersonator in truth he hasn't done that in more than a decade because again he had some sort of mental
01:21:15
break and since then he's been arrested over 40 times including for attempting to kidnap a seven-year-old child
01:21:23
and so the media is not portraying this case I think in an accurate way and I think
01:21:30
as a result of that it leads to pressure on the D.A to prosecute someone who has
01:21:36
I think a strong self-defense claim or you know maybe the D.A just wants to do this anyway and it gives the D.A cover
01:21:42
to do this Soros is I mean I know that we have this back and forth with this why is CNN being inaccurate do you think
01:21:48
sucks they're basically cooperating with Alvin Bragg's interpretation of the case and
01:21:52
they're trying to make the case against penny look as damning as possible yeah why don't they just take it straight
01:21:58
down the middle it's a tragedy we have a screwed up situation here we got a mental health crisis and it's a tragedy
01:22:04
for everybody involved on the Bernie get stuff he served eight of a 12 month sentence for the firearm charge and he
01:22:10
had a massive 43 million dollar civil uh judgment against him in 1996 decade later it's just this is a
01:22:18
little different than the the Getz thing because pulling out a gun and shooting somebody well yeah no that's deadly
01:22:23
intent yeah yeah that's that's the congratulations Penny he's a he's a trained Marine right he's trying to
01:22:30
immobilize him he has to believe that he he's just trying to subdue yes Neely and
01:22:35
so using a Chokehold to kill him that's an unfortunate consequence of what happened but he was trying to restrain
01:22:41
the guy as far as we know right as far as we know yeah I mean tragedies all around we got to have Law and Order I I
01:22:49
tweeted like I don't know why we still have the post office maybe we can make that like once a week and redo all of
01:22:54
that space and allow every American who's suffering from mental illness to check in to what used to be the post
01:23:00
office you know maybe like once a week and obviously you can give those people very
01:23:05
gentle Landings but I don't think we need Postal Service more than once or twice a week and then let
01:23:09
you know let's reallocate some money towards mental health in this country where anybody who's sick who feels like
01:23:16
they're violent or feels like they're suicidal can just go into a publicly provided facility and say I'm a sick
01:23:21
person please help me this would solve a lot of problems in society we've got a mental health crisis we should provide
01:23:27
Mental Health Services to all Americans and it's a obviously easy thing for us to afford to do and if we had done that
01:23:33
then this never would have happened exactly I mean literally you have sacks who wants to balance the budget saying
01:23:39
hey this is something we're spending on we can all agree on this compared to the
01:23:42
impact on society I don't think it would be a huge expense we would save money we'd save money because a city like San
01:23:48
Francisco could become quite livable or New York if and then if God forbid these
01:23:52
terrible school shootings you know if you avoid even one of them it's 30 people's lives or 10 people's lives
01:23:59
convert post offices what we need to do is stand up scaled shelters and it doesn't need to be done on the most
01:24:04
expensive land in a given city outside of cities there is no expectation in Europe for
01:24:11
like Paris or London to be affordable or Hong Kong to be affordable there are affordable places 30 minutes outside of
01:24:17
those places where you could put these facilities I just want to ask one question to sax because I don't know
01:24:23
and I know Saks is a little bit deeper into the center what is George soros's motivation for putting in these Lawless
01:24:31
insane DA's like I understand that he was able to buy them they're low cost there's not a lot of money in them okay
01:24:37
I understand that that's table Stakes but what is his actual motivation for causing chaos in cities listen we can't
01:24:43
know exactly what his motivation is but what he did is he went into cities where
01:24:48
he doesn't live and flooded The Zone with money to get his preferred candidate elected his D.A
01:24:54
now the reason he did that was to change the law and the way that he changed the
01:24:57
law was not through legislatures the way you're supposed to operate but rather by
01:25:01
abusing prosecutorial discretion so in other words once he gets his Soros D.A elected they can change the law by
01:25:07
deciding what to prosecute and what not to prosecute right and that's why there is so much lawlessness in these cities
01:25:12
but that there's a better path you're saying yeah this is not the only way that Soros has
01:25:18
I'd say imposed his values on cities that he doesn't live in where does he live I think he's a New York guy but I'm
01:25:26
not sure but but he's gone far beyond that obviously in these elections but also he's done this across the world
01:25:34
Soros has this thing called the open societies Foundation which sounds like it's spreading democracy and liberal
01:25:39
values but in fact is fermenting regime change all over the world and he's been sponsoring and funding color revolutions
01:25:47
all over the world now if you like some of the values he's spreading then maybe you think that's a good thing but I can
01:25:53
tell you that the way this is perceived by all these countries all over the world is it creates tremendous
01:26:00
dissension and conflict and then they look at America and they basically say you know this American billionaire is
01:26:06
coming into our country and he's funding regime change and it makes America look
01:26:12
bad now he's doing this I think with the cooperation of our state department a lot of cases and maybe the CIA I don't
01:26:19
know but this is why America frankly has hated all over the world as we go running around meddling in the in the
01:26:25
internal affairs of all these countries too is this guy all there like that was the other thing I heard is that he's not
01:26:30
all there and the people around him are doing these kind of things in his organizations I heard something similar
01:26:34
is that it's the idiot son Alexander who's really now pulling the strings would you would you allow source to
01:26:40
speak at all in Summit would you interview yeah sure yeah let's have Sorrows or a son and they could explain
01:26:44
themselves if they're so proud apparently there is an article that Alexander Soros has visited the White
01:26:49
House like two dozen times during the Biden presidency this is an extremely powerful and connected person I mean I'm
01:26:55
sure he listens to pod okay we'll see you all next time this is episode one two nine of all in we'll see you on
01:27:02
episode 130 bye bye we love you bye-bye to let your winners ride Rain Man [Music]
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we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it [Music] besties
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