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Secretary Rollins, thank you for joining me here. Can you call me Brooke? Brooke.
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Okay. I didn't I mean, I'm wearing a tie. There's a degree of formality. You just came from a cabinet today. I did.
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Food security is national security. America is the largest a exporter in the world. These farmers don't want all
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these checks. No one wants a handout. Exactly. No one wants a handout. $15 billion a year is spent on soda.
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Taxpayer dollars be spent on sugary drinks and junk food. that's making our kids sick? Absolutely not. Does that
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mean we shut them down? Does that mean No, of course not. Part of that was having 300 executive orders drafted and
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we did it all very quietly. No one really knew it was happening. We're not here for the people to serve us like
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some monarchy. We're here to serve the people. I'm here in Washington DC at the US Department of Agriculture to
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interview the 33rd Secretary of Agriculture, Brooke Rollins. We just had an amazing conversation talking about
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Brook's background, the work she's doing at the USDA, the impact Doge is having,
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food stamps, the sentiment of the American farmer, tariff and trade, and everything in between. Really amazing
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conversation. Thank you to Secretary Rollins for allowing me here today. I hope you'll enjoy the conversation.
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All right, besties. I think that was another epic discussion. People love the interviews. I could hear him talk for
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hours. Absolutely. We crush your questions in a minute. We are giving people ground truth data to underwrite
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your own opinion. What do you guys think? That was fun. Pal. Congrats on your first 100 days. First
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100 days. Yesterday was the 100th day of President Trump and I like 70 days. But
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I'm President Trump yesterday, but today we celebrated together at the cabinet meeting and we're about I'm going back
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over to the White House right after we finish to do more celebrating. Great. Well, we appreciate it. The USDA is an
00:01:50
incredible agency. It was founded under Abraham Lincoln, I believe, was established under Lincoln when I think I
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was talking to your staff. I think 60% of American uh workforce within agriculture at the time. That's right.
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And uh it's a really critical agency for American prosperity and has been really
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important for uh food security and for the interest of America around the world as a trade partner, the largest a
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exporter in the world. The agency is incredible in terms of the scale. 29 sub agencies, hundred thou over 100,000
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employees, 4,500 locations, and an over $200 billion Yeah. annual budget. So really an incredible um uh department to
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oversee. But before we get into the USDA and talk a little bit about some of the
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work you're doing and have been doing, maybe we can talk a little bit about your background. Did you grow up on a
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farm? How did you get into agriculture? So yes, I grew up uh in a really small town in Texas. We uh were not farmers or
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ranchers per se in Texas. I grew up on a small farm. We raised animals. We bailed
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hay. But my family, my mom's side of the family, uh my grandmother, they had a big rowcrop farm in Minnesota. So I
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spent every summer um on that farm, corn, wheat, soy, pretty much everything you could consider and think of. So that
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was my rowcrop. um which has actually been very very helpful because coming from Texas and being more of a cattle
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raiser and being in cattle more which is what I'm in in Texas uh it's really great to have sort of both sides of the
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house and and I'm very appreciative to that but yes grew up in a very small town uh we didn't have much I was raised
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by a single mom but we did have the land and uh and on that land we raised our animals again we bled our hay I barrel
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raced every Friday night I grew up in 4 and FFA went to Texas A&M on an agriculture scholarship ship uh studied
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soil science and meats and and feeds and feeding and and really dove way into agriculture knowing I would go to law
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school. um I really had a heart for understanding policy and the people but thought I would really stay in agg um
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for the rest of my life and obviously sometimes the the path diverts and changes but um even over the you know
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the 20 years since I last worked 100% in agriculture which was for Rick Perry when he was first governor um then
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quickly moved into all the policy but but I've always stayed very much in touch and involved in a and always
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really worked in a polic policy, but as part of a much broader portfolio until this job. But um no, listen, the USDA is
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the people's department. That was what President Lincoln's vision was. Uh the American founding had four key agencies,
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of course, the attorney general, justice, state, and defense, which was war, state, you know, Department of War
00:04:35
at the time, but defense. And that was really the beginning of our country were those four. Interior was added a couple
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decades later. And then agriculture that was sort of the um the cadence of of uh
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building a new government and creating some sort of self-governing structure that you want the power to remain with
00:04:52
the people. But certainly as America moved from a frontier republic into you know as we know the the world's greatest
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economic superpower certainly you needed some kind of of governing structure. And
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so Abraham Lincoln in the 1860s uh believed sincerely that the you know the majority of Americans then were rural.
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They were agriculture related and that they needed um representation here in Washington. So the people's department
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was formed and uh this building was built uh in the early 1900s 19 uh 20s and uh and here we are today. Now
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through the years as you mentioned it has grown and grown and grown. I do believe it became a bit of a catch-all
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uh in some ways. You know, we we run the food stamp program, uh the SNAP program,
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the supplemental nutrition program. We run the forests, of course, forest services under forestry is under USDA.
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So, that's tens of thousands of firefighters as an example. Um and of course, all of the farming and
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agriculture related from rural development loans to farm loans to crop insurance. Uh and then and then of
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course moving all of the economic relief, etc. that sometimes is often needed. I am still getting my arms
00:06:00
around, you know, two months in exactly everything that that we're we're working
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on here. But in President Trump's greatest vision and in his bold leadership, one of my top priorities is
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how we realign the USDA around its original purpose, which was serving the people and especially the farmers and
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ranchers. So really looking forward to continuing that work. But you were in the first Trump administration. I was in
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the first Trump administration. I think I was the only A major uh in the building and and I was doing a lot of
00:06:28
different hats. I was working with Jared Kushner um in the office of American innovation uh and then was doing all the
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strategy. So kind of the big picture you know for the president and and the policy especially on the domestic side
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eventually ran the domestic policy team eventually towards the end um took on Kelly and Conway's team and some other
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portfolios. So really over the course of those three years in Trump 1. How did you end up in Trump one? Well, that is a
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really crazy long story. Um, I for my entire policy, my heart is in public policy. I have just I I first thought I
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may end up at seminary and be a pastor um a youth pastor and that was really where I was felt very called uh after
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college, but then realized that if I lean into public policy and I didn't know what that meant. I didn't even know
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what a think tank was, but that I could perhaps change more and help more people
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um going that route than if I just worked at a church. And so um I really kind of got excited about that idea and
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I was a big firm litigator uh for a couple of years after law school. did a clerkship, a federal clerkship for a
00:07:41
judge in Dallas in the northern district. And then um got a call from Rick Perry, also another big-time Texas
00:07:48
Aggie, a major from a from a a background, a rural town, and he just become governor. And in Texas, George W.
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Bush had just become president. They had the whole hanging chad. You know, when they think the election integrity issues
00:08:00
are new to today, they are not new to today. This goes way back. But uh Rick Perry became governor. He was lieutenant
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governor. and he called me and I was sitting um billing my every six minutes the billable hour for this big law firm
00:08:13
in Dallas. Loved the firm, didn't love the work. And he said, "Why don't you come join my new team down here in
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Austin?" I was 28 years old. I'd only been out of law school for a couple of years. And he made me his deputy general
00:08:24
counsel. Um sort of shocking to everybody, but I'd known him. I met him when I was 15 as a future farmer of
00:08:31
America. and he believed in me and and so that was really how the pivot as I was trying to figure out what was next.
00:08:38
I really leaned into public policy and and I found in the governor's office it was a great experience. I only did it
00:08:44
for two years at the very beginning of his administration, Rick Perry's uh that you could make such a difference. But
00:08:51
what I realized was that there was no one at that moment in Texas governance that was lobbying for freedom and for
00:09:00
liberty and for God and for family that all of those people that would come see me every day wanted something even in
00:09:06
Texas looking for a specific law or wanting a little bit more taxpayer money. And I was I wasn't even 30 yet.
00:09:14
So I was sort of new to all of it but I was put in a pretty a pretty highly you know responsible area. and it was so
00:09:21
instructive to me. So anyway, long story short, I ended up um planning to sort of
00:09:26
step away from uh any sort of official work. And my husband and I were ready to start a family. And uh I was going to do
00:09:35
that for 20 years and then perhaps think about re-entering the workforce again, having no idea um what that even meant.
00:09:41
But I got a call from Wendy Graham, who was then Senator Phil Graham's wife, chair of this organization I had never
00:09:48
heard of, called the Texas Public Policy Foundation, and only had a couple of employees based in San Antonio. I was
00:09:55
the governor's policy director at the time. I went from being deputy general counsel to taking on all the policy for
00:10:01
Rick Perry. And she said, "Would you like to come do this?" I didn't have any kids at the time. And I thought, "Well,
00:10:05
you know, I could do it for a year or two." And I didn't even know what a think tank was. But I did know that
00:10:11
based on my experience in Rick Perry's office, I'm not an academic. I'm an A major from Texas A&M, but that if there
00:10:17
were significant efforts to build a policy apparatus, I couldn't have articulated this 20 years ago, but I can
00:10:24
now into what my instinct was. if there were a significant policy apparatus or apparatuses I guess
00:10:33
um that were strategic and intentional and that didn't have clients that weren't paid to advocate for certain
00:10:41
things. We only advocated for what was right that it could change everything in Texas, everything. I just been the
00:10:47
policy director. I had no one telling me what the right thing to do was. I just had the industry and lobby in my ear.
00:10:54
And so I thought, well, yeah, let me go do this Texas public policy thing for a year or two and that'll be fun. And then
00:11:00
I'll really step away once my kids start coming hopefully. And uh and I looked up
00:11:05
15 years later with four kids, Luke, Jake, Anna, and Lily. Um I was doing the flexible work before it was a thing. Uh
00:11:13
my board at TBPF was wonderful. Went from two employees to about 120. Became, I believe, the most effective public
00:11:19
policy organization in the country. moved Texas because I had been in the sausage making. So I knew wasn't again
00:11:26
was an academic which at the time most think tanks were run by but I understood innately how to stop bad things and how
00:11:33
to move good things and that was really the bottom line and how to hire really really good people. So I got a call from
00:11:40
Jared Kushner whom I had never met. I had been on the president candidate Donald Trump's economic team. Uh got a
00:11:47
call when he was running against Hillary Clinton. would you help us just build out our economic tax plan, deregulation
00:11:51
plan, etc. And I said, "Of course, but I run a nonpartisan think tank." And uh I'm always happy to help because
00:11:58
obviously I think we thought Donald Trump was going to be more conservative than Hillary, but no one really knew,
00:12:03
right? He'd been a Democrat, right, very early, not very long ago. And uh and I said, "But yes, if anyone calls and
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helps, I want them to understand the Texas model, what we did and cutting taxes and deregulating and the job
00:12:16
growth that happened and how it helped poor people the most." Going back to my original idea of going to seminary and
00:12:23
um and so he won. I was on that economic team. I was not interested in coming to
00:12:28
DC or the White House. I told the team that. They said, "What would you like to do?" You were on the team when a lot of
00:12:33
people weren't. And I said, "No, no, no. I'm going to stay in Texas and help." Then I got a call from um my now very
00:12:39
good friend but then at the time didn't know him Jared Kushner who said whatever
00:12:44
you're doing this is about six months into term year one of term one is that thing y'all are doing in Texas you know
00:12:50
criminal justice reform um deregulation tax cuts I mean whatever all of the great things you've done that's sort of
00:12:57
can you come just talk to me about how you did it and so I flew up to DC and flew up again and flew up again and he
00:13:04
started saying we really need you in the White House we want you to build something very similar to what you built
00:13:08
in Texas, a relentless, super strategic, very intentional policy apparatus that um
00:13:17
could move things. And I said no and then I said no again. And then I said no again. And then my family and I finally
00:13:25
um said yes. And so that's how I ended up in the last White House. And that transitioned into this this term.
00:13:30
Obviously, you've kept in touch with the president and well, it's much bigger and
00:13:34
more interesting story than that, I think. So, the final year of term one, I took it upon myself. I sort of anointed
00:13:42
myself as the person that would ensure that when President Trump won the second term, yeah. On November 3rd of 2020,
00:13:50
that we would be ready unlike we were not in the first term. And so I spent the year with Larry Cuddlo who ran the
00:13:57
National Economic Council, Scott um Robert O'Brien who ran National Security Council and I was domestic policy at
00:14:03
that point and really drove an effort to put together an agenda in the teams that
00:14:10
would be ready for that second term. And so when that didn't happen and you know
00:14:15
everyone else was discouraged, no one would hire Trump people. Um it was a it was a it was a very dark time. January
00:14:22
6th happened In November of 2020, I realized that what I had been blessed to build in Texas, what the Trump first
00:14:33
White House asked me to help do within the West Wing, um, that that's what I needed to do on the national scale.
00:14:40
Never never thinking for a second at that moment that President Trump was going to run again. But the whole idea
00:14:46
that we had just had four incredible years, that we had a team of people in the cabinet, Trump won, senior staff,
00:14:53
Trump won, that finally not only knew how to talk about conservative issues, but knew how to govern from a free
00:15:00
market, America first perspective. And that couldn't be lost. If we lost that team, if we lost that thinking, if we
00:15:08
lost that knowhow, I didn't know if we'd ever get it back. And the Democrats are
00:15:12
really good. The left is really good at government. We our side is really good at raising families and building
00:15:18
business. And so this happens every time that we're put into government. We we have a team of people that have the best
00:15:25
intentions, but we lose years because we don't know how to run a bureaucracy, how
00:15:30
to deconstruct it, and how to reconstruct it. And so what I in the time frame exactly because that's it.
00:15:36
It's the time frame. So, we launched the America First Policy Institute in uh quietly in early February of 21 publicly
00:15:45
in April, almost exactly four years ago. Um, today in April of 21, I had nine former Trump cabinet members from Trump
00:15:53
1. 50 former White House senior staff. Many were volunteers at the beginning. Eventually, I could raised enough money
00:15:59
to get everyone on payroll. But when the president won in November, AFPI and then
00:16:03
our sister C4, we launched America First Works. was a $90 million operation in just a couple of years and I think
00:16:10
fundamentally transformed the landscape. Part of it part of it, not all. Part of
00:16:14
it was getting ready for a second America first term, whether that was Donald Trump or whomever. And part of
00:16:20
that was having 300 executive orders drafted, having 196 agency plans ready. And we did it all very quietly. No, we
00:16:27
didn't talk about it in the press. No one really knew it was happening. So that then translated to seven of our
00:16:34
team are now on the cabinet. um dozens and dozens and dozens are um in the White House and and and along with our
00:16:40
other partners that in those dark days of early 21, you know, from Steven Miller um that there were just so many
00:16:48
of us that were kind of, you know, in solidarity in those early days, not knowing that we would be back, but if
00:16:55
given the opportunity, we would answer the call again. So now you're in the cabinet, you're running the Department
00:17:00
of Agriculture. It's been 70 some odd days, 100 days for the president. How have the first 100 days gone? What have
00:17:07
been kind of the highlights for you in starting this term out? You know, everyone says, "Are you exhausted?" And
00:17:14
it's a 7-day a week, 20 hours a day. And for me, there are days where I'm tired of me. I think I got here to DC. I was
00:17:20
in uh doing tours all day yesterday with Secretary Kennedy. The day before I was
00:17:24
in Ohio, I think that's right. Yes. Um two days before that I was in North Dakota. Then I'm back here. It's
00:17:32
literally a 5:00 a.m. to midnight, seven days a week effort, but it's just such a
00:17:37
gift. I mean, who gets to do this? And at an inflection point in our country's history, this is I feel like this is
00:17:44
1776 all over again. And I think about never ever to compare myself to, you know, the founding fathers, but those
00:17:51
guys were farmers and teachers and businessmen before they declared independence from the greatest power the
00:17:58
world had ever known, and that was Great Britain. and the king and and so in many
00:18:02
ways I feel like our cabinet and this president has God's hand and that that's what we are called for as well. So while
00:18:11
certainly we're working very hard and the 100 days has been extremely fast-paced, I think that's why you see
00:18:17
the joy in the work is because we're ready for it. Some of the secretaries in the cabinet have talked about the need
00:18:23
to deconstruct, tear down. Yeah. Rebuild, or in some cases completely dismantle the department that they're
00:18:31
overseeing. What's your kind of mandate with agriculture? Is there a reform needed in
00:18:38
agriculture like others have declared for their departments? Does it need to be rebuilt from the ground up? Does it
00:18:44
need to be rethought or does agriculture work well and in the best interest of America? what's your general kind of
00:18:50
take and your general mandate on the department of a yeah well and I think when you say you know does agriculture
00:18:55
work well I think you mean USDA so the fact that we have an agency with 100 plus thousand employees um the largest
00:19:04
budget item is food stamps that the SNAP program uh there are so many different divisions and contract I mean we are
00:19:11
just getting started we've already canceled almost $6 billion a h 100,000 $200,000 at a time that's a significant
00:19:18
ificant amount of contracts that we're cancelling. We are reducing in force to make sure that we are as efficient, as
00:19:24
effective, and as flexible as possible. There is no doubt that USDA absolutely needs a realignment, a reconstruction,
00:19:33
and a significant reorganization. So, that's what we are working through right now. the idea that USDA should be, you
00:19:42
know, we've got other programs and and those are important like food stamps, although they need significant reform,
00:19:47
but this agency should be should be about farmers and ranchers all day, every day and our egg producers. And how
00:19:53
do we talking about the industry now, an industry that every year we lose more family farms, every year things get
00:20:03
outsourced to other countries including China and Brazil. Every year it gets harder and harder for most of our
00:20:11
farmers to make a living where they can support their family, pass their fourth,
00:20:15
fifth, and sixth generation farmer ranch on to the next their sons or daughters.
00:20:20
It's getting harder and harder. It's also getting harder and harder for new Americans, men or women, to get into the
00:20:26
business of farming. It's almost impossible. there's not enough, you know, opportunity for capital to inject,
00:20:33
to buy a new tractor, to buy the land, to figure out how to how to become, you know, part of this great historical
00:20:38
legacy profession in American history. So, we've got a lot of things a here at the department we need to really really
00:20:45
be refocused on and we are, but also there's some massive policy questions that we've got to think through. And
00:20:52
then the the kind of the final big priority is these farmers don't want all these checks. I mean, they they take
00:20:58
them. It's the way they stay in the black and the way they keep farming. It's a national security issue because
00:21:03
we lose more farms. We buy more food from overseas. That's not good for the country for a lot of reasons. But at the
00:21:10
same time, it they would like to be able to sell their product at a profit and not have to worry about the government,
00:21:17
right? You know, at the end of the day. So, these are all big policy questions that hopefully we expand markets. The
00:21:22
president's realigning the entire world economy right now, putting America first. All of those things combined, I
00:21:28
believe, will lead us into a new era of prosperity where we can hopefully solve for most of that. I think they're all
00:21:33
really good targets. Um, obviously tactically challenging, but can we start with SNAP real quick? I just because
00:21:39
it's 70% of your budget. It is $123 billion a year. So, just to create some context, 13% of Americans are on the
00:21:47
food stamp, the SNAP program at $123 billion a year. That's roughly, call it 2% of America's federal budget is going
00:21:57
towards the food stamp program. And one key kind of policy point that's come up lately is that roughly 10% or 15 billion
00:22:07
a year is spent on soda. Yeah. And 75% of the population on SNAP are clinically obese. Yes. And there's a real health
00:22:16
concern about the SNAP program continuing to fuel a health crisis in America. What What have you and in
00:22:25
partnership with Senator H sorry with Secretary Kennedy talked about with regards to addressing the health
00:22:32
challenges that arise from the way the SNAP program operates today. Yeah, that's been a pretty big priority of
00:22:37
ours. And uh within the first hour of being sworn in on February 13th, uh 50 letters went out to all 50 governors in
00:22:45
the country. And in those letters, we talked about SNAP and innovation and send me your waiverss because the way
00:22:51
the program works, it moves through the states. And so, and I love that anyway, like why would the federal government be
00:22:57
telling everyone what to do? We want in the founders best vision of the 10th amendment to allow the states to to
00:23:04
build those programs. But but within that was why are taxpayer dollars why are taxpayer dollars billions of
00:23:12
taxpayer dollars being spent on sugary drinks and junk food to go into our supplemental nutrition program for our
00:23:20
food food insecure populations. you know, our lower um income populations when to your point, the backside is an
00:23:29
obesity and chronic disease epidemic unlike any developed country in the history of the world has ever seen. 74%
00:23:39
of our adolescence, our teenagers would not pass the military readiness test of our United States military right now
00:23:46
today. 75%. So again, talk about national security, talk about all of the things. This is a massive massive
00:23:55
challenge facing America and in the first administration and you know health health care was under my portfolio in
00:24:01
domestic policy as conservatives we've long talked about how do we make America healthy again but but very much from a
00:24:09
numbers perspective right the the cost to the health care system at the back end of this it's not just the taxpayers
00:24:15
funding it at the front end with the junk food and the sugary drinks and the the diabetes I mean just it's it's it's
00:24:22
really stunning what's happened just in the last couple of decades. But then on the back end, the cost to our health
00:24:27
care system and treating those chronic diseases is going to bankrupt our country. It's almost bankrupting all the
00:24:32
states right now through Medicaid. So, how do we solve for that? And you know, enter Bobby Kennedy. And Bobby and I
00:24:40
don't agree on everything, but we do agree on most things. And the opportunity I was just with him
00:24:45
yesterday touring some farms and talking about nutrition and agriculture all day.
00:24:50
the opportunity for the agriculture lead and the health lead to work daily handinand to solve this together. You
00:24:59
can't solve this through government regulation. You just can't. But you solve it through nutrition, through
00:25:04
empowering your farmers, through getting good food into these programs versus the
00:25:08
ultrarocessed, etc., etc. We've all heard Bobby use these points and he couldn't be more right. And
00:25:13
listen, it's a it's again talk about realigning the world economy with the president's vision of tariffs. It's also
00:25:20
realigning how we look at food, how we as a federal government, to your point on SNAP and other food programs, we have
00:25:27
13 nutrition programs. Listen to this number. This is going to astound you. In America today, through USDA, this is not
00:25:36
all the other agencies. This is just here at USDA. We spend $370 million a day on nutrition
00:25:45
programs. So, not just SNAP, but food banks and all of the other ones. That's just USDA.
00:25:50
That is a stunning number. We've got to do better. And um and so that's a big part of it. So, Secretary Kennedy and I
00:25:59
are on this. We are so aligned. We've got the dietary guidelines we're doing right now. What shows up in DC as you
00:26:05
guys try and make this move because there's a lot of money to That's just just to paint the picture. About a
00:26:11
quarter of a percent of federal spending is going towards buying soda. Yeah. Okay.
00:26:17
interest. What is what happens as you guys try and make these sorts of reforms? Who shows
00:26:32
up and what do they try and do? Well, I I I will I will talk about it. I I will also say that those that represent those
00:26:40
industries, they are they are good people who are raising their families and I do believe, you know, their
00:26:47
talking point is freedom. Why should someone at the bottom of the socioeconomic level ladder not be able
00:26:53
to buy the same things you and I could buy? Of course, my answer is, well, we're not using taxpayer dollars, so
00:26:58
that's a big difference. And we're not paying for it on the back end. But I but I understand I understand where they
00:27:04
would, you know, potentially be coming from, but the amount um of money that is at stake is reflected in the amount of
00:27:13
lobbyists um that are out and about and um and certainly um very much a part of the Washington DC
00:27:23
establishment, but it goes directly to why as difficult and as challenging as these policy issues are for All of us in
00:27:31
President Trump's cabinet reflecting today on the 100th day celebration. It's also so different because none of us are
00:27:39
of Washington. That was true in the first term and that's why I felt so freed. I could I could just do what was
00:27:45
right. He just said go do what's right. But in the first term, we didn't really know yet how to do it, what we were
00:27:52
doing, and who was on our side. That four-year pause in between term one and term two, it was the greatest gift. I
00:28:00
mean, not only could we plan, but we also fully understood who was in it to save the country, what it was that we
00:28:07
needed to do to get this done. And for me, this is so black and white. And I've told everyone this. I don't need to
00:28:13
listen and have 57 meetings with lobbyists representing the industry. This is black and white. Taxpayer
00:28:21
dollars be spent on sugary drinks and junk food that's making our kids sick? Absolutely not. Does that mean we shut
00:28:29
them down? Does that mean? No, of course not. But it just means we realign and we
00:28:34
spend the dollars where they need to be spent. We reform and hopefully we make America healthy again. I think this is
00:28:39
one of the most important points about this administration is without having all the political insiders in the
00:28:44
administration, there's no political leverage that can be applied and you can have a true objective first principles
00:28:51
point of view on policy which seems to not have been the case for you know a very long time in the United States.
00:28:58
Going back to the point about the founding fathers and that era of America, these were folks who ran farms,
00:29:03
who ran businesses. They came and provided their time as civil servants for a period and then they left and went
00:29:10
back to private service. That's right. And that government did not have the sort of political careermanship that I
00:29:17
think allows lobbying and lobbyists to have the leverage that they have. That's right. In government today. Um that's
00:29:23
exactly right. On both on both sides. This is I'm not I'm not it's not a party thing. It's not it's it's just it is an
00:29:31
entire industry that has been built around this is the problem when the government gets too big right I mean
00:29:37
this is the this is world history Greece Rome Spain France great every great world powerland has buckled under the
00:29:48
weight of a government that hands out the large s right that that everyone's got their hand in the pot and they
00:29:54
buckle and that's how they lose their place in the world right And that is what listen I sincerely believe that
00:30:00
without Donald Trump coming down that escalator and I listen there were 17 guys and one girl I think running that
00:30:07
you know in 15 when he did that I was not the smart one that said oh there's the the game changer that that's him I
00:30:13
was like oh I love that person and I've known him forever and they're going to be so great it's not going to be Donald
00:30:18
Trump but but at that moment in American history without that human being who is
00:30:25
literally willing to swing for the kit fences every single day, a 100 times a day for the American people who owes no
00:30:32
lobbyist not one thing. We were all hired with the idea that we owe not industry, not lobbyist one thing. Now,
00:30:40
we need to listen to their concerns, but every day, all day, we're called to do what's right. And I don't know that
00:30:45
that's ever happened, at least in our in my lifetime, in governance, in federal governance. So, I I want to talk about
00:30:51
the irony of running the USDA with your policy background. This is an an organization that administers programs
00:30:58
like SNAP. Yes. The federal crop insurance program, the direct payments program to farmers, commodity price
00:31:04
support where the federal government, the USDA is buying commodities to keep prices high. And coming from a free
00:31:11
market background, coming from a maximizing liberties background, small government background, wasteful
00:31:16
government spending needs to be eliminated background. How do you reconcile the irony of running this
00:31:21
department and how do you think about where you want to take this department with that background over time? Yeah,
00:31:26
it's a great this is you're the first person to really dig down on this that I've talked to since I took the job and
00:31:31
it's ex it's an extremely insightful and thoughtful question um that you raised because that's 100% true. My entire
00:31:40
background is how to get government out of people's lives and how to get government quote handouts out of um p
00:31:47
the private sector and how do we you know downsize significantly everything that that the government stands for and
00:31:55
how do we let the markets work. Um I think two things. First, I have become an absolute avid believer in President
00:32:04
Trump's vision on putting America first. Um, for years, you know, I was, well, that the cheaper goods from China are
00:32:11
good for everybody, and and they allow those at the bottom of the economic ladder to have a better quality of life,
00:32:16
and this is the market at work. Now that I've seen it in the first term, but especially as the agriculture secretary,
00:32:24
realizing how poorly our products are treated on the world stage, the tariff, it just is, it's stunning to me that we
00:32:32
let this go on for so long. the way Argentina treats our beef, the way China treats the way the way Brazil treats our
00:32:40
corn. I mean, the way the UK treats our pork, and that's just in my world. I haven't even really studied the
00:32:44
automakers and others. There is no doubt that that realignment has to happen for
00:32:49
America to continue to thrive and lead on the world stage for another 250 years. That's the first thing. So, so
00:32:56
really realigning my thinking after deep study and deep thought in his approach of America first, not free markets for
00:33:05
the sake of free markets, but fair markets for the sake of America. Get parody first, right? With the goal of
00:33:10
freer markets eventually. The second thing I will say and more on the USDA side is food security is national security.
00:33:20
We have already lost tens of thousands of family farms in the last decade. If we continue on that trajectory, America
00:33:29
will not be able to feed oursel. And the minute you become unable to feed yourself is the minute you lose all
00:33:36
power on the world stage. The minute you have to rely on China or Brazil or Argentina to feed your people, you're
00:33:43
done. And what has happened over the last number of years is China's been buying up a lot of our farmland in
00:33:50
America. Um, a lot of our major meat packers, etc. are now owned by foreign ownership. And, you know, it's not all
00:33:58
I'm not going to cast dispersions on everybody, but at the end of the day, we have to make sure that our agriculture
00:34:04
industry is here in this country, that we are feeding ourselves, and that we're relying on ourselves. And so all of the
00:34:10
programs that you just outlined are part of that effort. We lose our farmers and
00:34:15
our ranchers. We lose America. Not just the the diligence and the hard work and the discipline and what that um
00:34:22
righteous I believe the most righteous of all professions means. The beginning of our country was fought by farmers.
00:34:28
But also we lose it from a national security perspective. And when that happens, we lose everything. Let's talk
00:34:36
about farming and the farmer. Today, there's 2 million Americans that work directly in agriculture across, I
00:34:43
believe, 1.8 million legal farms in the United States. China historically has bought $ 36 billion a year of American
00:34:51
agricultural product. America is the largest a exporter in the world. So, we our our farmers are deeply dependent on
00:34:58
trade. That's right. And um in California today, farmers have declared there's a 20% labor shortage. Meanwhile,
00:35:06
there's a massive effort to address illegal immigration in the United States. Um, and I want to just hear like
00:35:14
what's your view on the ground? You visited, I think you said, 15 states since you've been in office. Hundreds of
00:35:19
farmers. Hundreds of farmers. What's the state of mind of the American farmer today? What are they feeling? What are
00:35:24
they worried about? What are you hearing? The first uh three things on that. The first is that they are almost
00:35:31
to a farmer. They are so supportive of President Trump even understanding that this current again trade
00:35:41
renegotiation. It hurts and and they they they're not going to be able to survive that long, but they know that
00:35:47
the president has their back. So that that's been really encouraging to me. Now, I have made a huge effort to get
00:35:54
out into the country to meet the farmers to continue to shake hands and say, "We're with you." But in the long run,
00:36:00
this is going to be so good for our agriculture industry. This renegotiation, these opening up markets
00:36:06
under Joe Biden, we lost $50 billion uh in trade. We went from a Z trade deficit
00:36:11
with Trump one to a $50 billion trade deficit with Biden. And that's $50 billion almost directly out of our
00:36:18
farmers pockets. So that you know the short term but that the president is with them. But secondly to your point
00:36:24
there are tremendous headwinds whether it is the trade renegotiation whether it is you know row crops especially being
00:36:32
in the thinnest margins they've ever had in their lifetimes and then we export so
00:36:38
many of those row crops that's almost a double whammy. the president's vision of
00:36:42
a you know basically a disruptive restructure of the American economy includes the ship building and so for
00:36:48
again a lot of the exporters that need that extra fee on top of that is just one more um and again that that Jame
00:36:55
Greer and the team has been great they've been solving for that and ensuring that a is at the table and that
00:37:00
every day and every decision they're making um they're doing that but but I think ultimately and this has been a big
00:37:06
part of what I've been talking to the farmers about is ensuring that we're opening up those new markets. And
00:37:12
whether it's India or Japan or South Korea or Brazil or Peru or the UK, I am going to all of those countries in the
00:37:22
next few months. And this is just me on behalf of agriculture. This isn't our our trade crew, our commerce secretary.
00:37:27
I mean, it's just me. But I feel so bullish on the idea that if we are we're on Trump time, we deploy Trump time,
00:37:36
which is going as fast as you can, as hard as you can for as long as you can around the world. We're going to open up
00:37:42
so many new markets for our farmers and then we solve for the labor issue, which
00:37:47
you brought up, which is a really big issue. Now, I think sometimes the Californians tend to inflate that
00:37:53
because What are you trying to say? Yeah, I know. They're they're they think a little bit differently. I hear it in
00:37:58
Florida, too. Yeah. Well, and and there's no doubt our I'll give you one statistic from a large strawberry
00:38:03
farmer. I work in strawberry um as well as other crops. Uh but the farmer mentioned that he he did an analysis. He
00:38:11
thinks that since precoid days, the total labor cost in the strawberry industry has grown from 700 million a
00:38:17
year to 2 billion a year. Wow. And that's really hurt margins. And so it's really hard to net a profit,
00:38:23
particularly in specialty crops, not row crops where everything's automated, but
00:38:26
specialty crops where you're dependent on labor doing work in the field, harvesting product to to be able to keep
00:38:32
up with the the lack of labor and that of late there's been a lot of an exodus of of immigrants out of that that might
00:38:40
qualify under the uh the visa program. So maybe I don't know if you're active or spending or the the department and
00:38:46
and I'll and I'll put a little note a little um cross the tea on what you just said and that is I'm a Texan and our
00:38:52
South Texas the citrus farmers down there think about in Mexico for some of them half a mile away they can see it
00:38:59
right across the border now through the wall but they can see it and uh and the it's $2 an hour those farmers are paying
00:39:06
$2 an hour over there. you come across on our side and with everything that we're required to do and pay and do it's
00:39:12
20 to $23 an hour. How do you compete? You're you're you're growing the same crops. You can't. And so that's what we
00:39:20
really have to focus on. Our dairy farmers, you know, the the visa programs don't work for them. It's not a seasonal
00:39:25
deal. Those cows have to be milked 365 days a year. They can't find people to to to milk the cows. So the president,
00:39:33
not in today's cabinet meeting, but in the last one a couple weeks ago, brought this up himself and he said, and he and
00:39:39
I talked about it in the first term, we've talked about it since then. He understands that there is a massive
00:39:45
labor challenge for our farmers and our ranchers, especially our farmers in this
00:39:48
country, but our ranchers as well. And he himself said, you know, that that those who are not here legally, they
00:39:55
need to go back. they need to self-epport, but that we will ensure that there's some sort of program in
00:40:02
place that will help make sure that our farmers on this side have the labor that
00:40:06
they need. Now, the details of that are being worked out. I can't really talk much about it, but the fact that the
00:40:12
president himself is focused on that should give our farmers some some a lot of encouragement that help help
00:40:18
literally, figuratively, and metaphorically is on the way. Got it. I think that's a key thing for farmers to
00:40:25
hear. they, you know, from what I hear from folks in the industry, it it's something that they want to make sure is
00:40:29
is acknowledged and and addressed. Um, it's agriculture is such an interesting market. There's such an alignment with
00:40:37
some of these conservative values that you and this administration espouse, but then there's such an important role that
00:40:42
government actually plays. That's exactly right. that that is at this point you couldn't it's you know I I
00:40:49
love Elon and love Doge and they've been such a good partner and helping us get rid of the the the $500,000 grant to
00:40:56
study transgender menstruation cycles in men and you know the what the mice are going to do with under you blah blah the
00:41:03
craziness he's been wonderful but um but agriculture in many ways is different you can't come in here and gut the crop
00:41:12
insurance program you will lose lose thousands of farmers and guess who swoops in and picks up their land in
00:41:19
their operation? The Chinese get you. You just can't do it. Now, my goal and my fervent prayer is that in four years
00:41:26
from now, we will have moved. We will have opened up the markets. We'll have reached this new era of prosperity for
00:41:32
our farmers and our ranchers. And in so doing, this should be the goal of every government program that we're able to
00:41:38
roll a lot of that back and out and that we don't need it as much so the budget can come down over time. Exactly. Yes.
00:41:44
That's the goal. The same with the food stamps. I mean, talk about 80% of the USDA budget is food stamps. Our goal
00:41:50
needs to be moving people into a work, you know, a life of work filled with dignity where they don't need those
00:41:56
programs anymore versus the last administration trying to get as many people into those programs as possible.
00:42:02
Our goal is to move them off of programs because they have a good well-paying job
00:42:05
and they don't need that anymore. No one wants a handout. Exactly. No one wants a
00:42:09
handout. I think that's what a lot of a lot of people don't understand. And so effectuating on that is really
00:42:13
important. Yeah. And I guess maybe you can share a little bit of the anecdotes. What's it been like with the Doge
00:42:18
representatives that have been come into the department of a are they embedded? Are they long-term? Do you believe that
00:42:25
Doge plays as an forget Elon? Yeah. But as um a department or whatever it is ad hoc department, does it play a long-term
00:42:34
role in continuously improving and identifying opportunities for cost savings? thousand% and it's it's like all my
00:42:42
dreams have come true. You know, I'll never forget when the president came down the escalator in 2015 and he was
00:42:47
talking about for every one new regulation, we're going to get rid of two. And I thought, are you kidding me?
00:42:52
For the first time, are we making deregulation fun and sexy? Like I've been talking about this in Texas and it
00:42:58
no one wanted to talk about it, right? Even Republicans like, oh, you know, we can never get rid of once government's
00:43:04
there, we just have to make it better. And Donald Trump 10 years ago started talking about it, made it a thing. The
00:43:11
first year of Trump won for every one new regulation, 22 win. The next year it was 17, the next year 13, I think. And
00:43:17
then by the end, because it got a little bit harder to find them, but still it wasn't two to one. Our average was like
00:43:22
10 to one in the first Trump administration. Well, then you add on Elon Musk and his, you know, team of
00:43:29
geniuses who normally would never even think about being in government. Not that they wouldn't want to, but they
00:43:35
wouldn't even begin to know how. You combine that with this idea that we're returning power to the people. We're
00:43:40
downsizing government. We are not in charge that the we're not here for the people to serve us like some monarchy.
00:43:46
We're here to serve the people. And that's a fundamental shift in the way we're thinking in the federal
00:43:51
government. And then to add Elon on. So it actually right after our cabinet meeting, maybe right before a couple
00:43:56
hours ago, I guess the news reports were saying, "Oh, he's headed back to, you know, do his business." I pulled him
00:44:01
aside and I said, "I hope this isn't true. This country needs you and your team forever." And to see now the states
00:44:09
begin to add their own doses. This is how we save America. This is how we protect the country. Hopefully that
00:44:15
becomes the institution. It becomes institutionaliz. Exactly. And and hopefully we make it so powerful and get
00:44:21
the people so involved that even the Democrats can't roll it back that this is the long-term plan for the country.
00:44:27
for your uh department, there's a big farm bill negotiation that comes up. I've I've been in DC a couple of times
00:44:33
for farm bills. I'll give an anecdote. Uh go in I have a conversation with someone on a committee or in an office
00:44:39
and they're like, "Well, I I'll we can get this thing, but we got to go give the other guys this thing." And it it
00:44:44
clearly becomes this bill that today I think is rated at a trillion five over whatever the the the the budgeting
00:44:50
period is. It's one of the largest bills we pass and the SNAP program is in it. So it serves the House of
00:44:57
Representatives interests and then all the farm programs are in it. So it serves the Senate interests because the
00:45:01
Senate is heavily influenced by rural states, by agriculture. And so it's become this behemoth bill. And how do
00:45:09
you view are you going to play a role in um and how do you view this kind of horse trading that needs to go on to
00:45:15
ultimately reduce government inefficiency, spending on things that don't necessarily make sense as we get
00:45:21
into this farm bill negotiation in the next couple of months? Well, I am encouraged that that the Biden team
00:45:28
couldn't get it done. I mean, they worked and it's important. I know a lot of people are hating it and they should
00:45:35
because it does become a Christmas tree of sorts, but the reference prices, which is what our farmers are paid on,
00:45:40
have not been changed since the last farm bill, which was at the beginning of Trump one. So, Debbie Stabinau, who's
00:45:46
now gone, was the lead Democrat in the Senate. The Senate was leading. Of course, Joe Biden wasn't. That team was
00:45:51
sort of MIA. Um, we've got a different team on the ground now. And one of the very first conversations I had with Amy
00:45:57
Clolobachar, who took Debbie Steanel's place as the lead Democrat, um, of course now we we're running the Senate,
00:46:02
it's a little bit different, is how do we get this done? But realizing that the SNAP program, which is what the
00:46:08
Democrats are always trying to put more money into, that grew 40% under the Joe Biden term, 40%. The program that was
00:46:15
already this gigantic, you know, huge amounts of waste and fraud and abuse, it's now even more. And they did that on
00:46:22
purpose, right? They knew it would be hard for us to roll that back. I'm underscoring your point that this is not
00:46:27
going to be easy. That um the farmer part of the farm bill is 15% 15. The food stamp part of the farm bill is 85%.
00:46:38
So I have been thinking about this already having conversations and strategy sessions on both sides of the
00:46:42
aisle. Frankly, we've got to get this done for our farmers. And even, you know, to Senator Clolobachar's credit
00:46:48
and other Senate Democrats on the A committee, they care as much about the farmer um in their states as I believe
00:46:55
most of the Republicans do. It's a a is the number one industry in almost every state. And so trying to find that middle
00:47:02
ground, but ensuring that we're bringing real reform to the SNAP program, but that we're most importantly supporting
00:47:08
our farmers and our ranchers will continue to be the driver. As in all things, I think Donald Trump is the is
00:47:14
the the game changer here and I think he's gonna help us get this done. So, I want to talk about one last point before
00:47:19
we wrap, which is on um innovation generally speaking in food. There's been a large amount and how it relates to
00:47:27
protecting farmers interests. Yeah. Um there's been a lot of investment in cellular agriculture using cells to make
00:47:33
milk or eggs or cheese or fish or chicken. um you know using new biotechnologies
00:47:40
and uh Dantis went on stage with a couple of ranchers from Florida and they passed a law banning the sale or
00:47:49
production of cellular agriculture cellular products in the state and there are two other states that have passed
00:47:54
laws others that are considering it now there's a conversation about some folks at the house also doing it and the
00:47:59
general statement well there's already a regulatory framework for making sure it's safe for consumers making sure it's
00:48:04
healthy etc. Some people might not like it, but I go back to my free market principles. Why not let consumers
00:48:11
choose? As long as it's safe, as long as it's appropriately regulated, shouldn't
00:48:14
it be made available rather than protecting the interests? Otherwise, you end up looking like Europe and Europe
00:48:20
has stifled innovation in agriculture for decades and as a result, they have fallen way behind America and it's an
00:48:27
opportunity for America to sustain its innovative advantage. Yeah. Do you have you spent any time on this topic? And do
00:48:33
you have a point of view? Well, let me say this. I have not dug into this yet the amount that I need to. But having
00:48:40
said that, I do believe that the innovation and the drive for better should never be stifled. And I sincerely
00:48:49
believe that there is hopefully room for everyone, especially as this emerging market is happening. And I also believe
00:48:58
that at the end of the day, the American consumer when most of them when having to decide between real American beef and
00:49:06
something that's not that they're going to choose the real American beef. So I at least in my, you know, nominal
00:49:13
knowledge at this point without digging in, I just believe so strongly in our in
00:49:17
our ranchers and our farmers and what they produce and what it means to the average American family. I'm the mom of
00:49:23
four uh and how I feed my family, but I don't think we ever want to get in the way of stifling innovation, especially
00:49:31
as it relates to something that could eventually be such a gamecher. Well, Brooke, I really appreciate all the time
00:49:37
you've given us given me today. Uh it's really great to spend this uh this hour with you and congrats on the role.
00:49:43
Congrats on the progress and really look forward to seeing the work you're going
00:49:46
to be doing over the years ahead. Thank you. Oh, thank you. It's an honor to do it. Thank you. Thank you.
00:49:52
[Music] I'm going all in.