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[Music] the man himself, CEO of YouTube. I didn't realize that when I took over the CEO gig, a big part of my job would
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be being a straight man. For a lot of YouTubers out there, YouTube is now by far the biggest
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streamer in the world. Shorts, I think, has just surpassed 70 billion views a day.
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Mohan was one of the pioneers of internet advertising and keeping the world's largest creator economy afloat.
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We think we're really still in the early days of our growth story and fulfilling
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what our mission is, which is to give everyone a voice and show them the world. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome
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YouTube CEO Neil Mohan. How are you? Good to see you, brother. Thanks. Nice to see you,
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David. How are you? Nice to see you. All right. Welcome, Neil. Neil and I could have done that together.
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I mean, you could have. What did you think? Um, we talked to him a little bit about which platform is the
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most important. He said the one that pays us the most. You don't pay for content upfront. You've done some
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experiments. You do it all with the 55% revenue split. You sweep 45%. Seems like
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you're doing pretty well. Are you taking too much money from creators? Let's get into it.
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Can we get that down to 30%? Um, well, first of all, thank you all for having me. It's a privilege to be
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with you guys. Like they say, uh, longtime listener, first- time caller. So, it's great to be here with
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all of you. Do you listen to the podcast? Yeah. Uh, I watch it. Oh, you watch it? Where do you watch it?
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Where did you you like Spotify? On YouTube? Oh, on YouTube. Yes, we're there now. We
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are there now. Yes. Can you please be prepared? Yes. Yes. I didn't know we had a YouTube channel.
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Really? How's it doing? How many folks watch it on watch it on YouTube? Just out of cur. There we go.
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All right. Okay. It's about half. Yeah, the channel is growing. You guys are close to a million subs, watch time,
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views, all up and to the right. So, congrats to congrats to all of you guys on that. But on your question, um, uh,
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Jason, so we we've paid out in the last 3 years over $70 billion to the creator economy. We are the we are the original
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and world's largest creator economy. Um, and so, well done. And um that innovation which
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is called the YouTube partner program is well over a decade now. The the 5545 that you're referring to. And um so we
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pay out billions to creators creators our media company partners the music partners etc. Uh I'm using that term
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creator and I'll use it for the la next 30 minutes sort of in the broadest sense
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of the term. Um it's just that the way that we do it is very different. I mean, we're we're a creator economy in the in
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the true entrepreneurial sense of the word, which is if you're a creator on YouTube, um, contrasts to the
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traditional model, you're betting on yourself, which is, um, kind of the opposite of sort of the way that
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traditional media models have worked. And as you grow, as your audience grow, as your success grows, um, your
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monetization grows, your business grows as well. And not every creator on our platform is going to become, you know,
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Mr. Beast or Dude Perfect, but there are, you know, north of 3 million creators that are in that partner
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program today earning revenue. Back to my question, I feel like you've created all these stars and you look at
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the Tuckers, you look at the Megan's, you know, we'll put ourselves maybe right behind them. We all choose to turn
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off monetization because the take rate's too high and we can do it better ourselves. Should you not start to think
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about two classes of folks? The upandcomers who don't have sales teams, who don't have distributions, maybe
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it's, you know, it's more about building an audience and then maybe looking at the folks like us slightly differently.
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And this seems to be a weakness in your game. Um, your take? Um, I would I would say that, you know,
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the way I think about he doesn't speak for us just for myself. No, but the point is
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I just want to be clear that I love you. No, no, but it's clear that people who are at this level take it on themselves
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because the 45% is just an absurdly high take rate for that level of person, the
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Tuckers, the Megan, they'd rather just bake their ads in. So, how do you think about that level of folks? They
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participate, but you don't monetize them. I think that that's um that's not the way I would characterize it. First of
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all, I think the the the way that I think about it is all of these monetization models should be available
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to you depending on what your business objectives are and what they're not. And I've talked to a bunch of you guys about
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sort of how you think about that monetization question and what's important versus audience building and
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not. And by the way, it's the same type of conversation that happens with sports
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leagues or studios or what have you there. And so my my vision on all of this is whatever model works for you as
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a creator podcast or what have you should be the model that you adopt. And so for example, you take um you know
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what Tucker's doing and Megan's doing and they you know they have had enormous success on our platform um mostly driven
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because they're incredibly talented at what they do and the audience and the algorithm have figured that out. But it
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might be that the monetization model that works best is something where they're representing their inventory
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themselves. And that I think is less about sort of take rate or what have you, but sort of the best way to
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actually package it up. And so that's that's really the way that I think about it. But if you're a creator getting
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started today, you're not even concerned with that at all because the the monetization is really only a byproduct
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of what you've been able to do from an audience engagement standoint. The net is what matters, right? At the
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end of the day. That's my point. Yeah, take rates 55, 20, 90. If you're making more money
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doing this than other things, I mean, a great example again just because the algorith and maybe you can
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speak to the the quality of the algorithm and the ads placement. You come from the ads business. You're a
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double click. Yeah. How good YouTube's ad placement and ad quality is relative to other platforms
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and how that actually increases. Yeah. I mean, I think I think what I'd say on that is it's it's really it's two
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things. One is, you know, obviously we invest very heavily in making it so that the advertising you see, whether you're
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watching YouTube on a television screen or on your phones or or your laptops is relevant. It's targeted. The creative
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formats are there. We are a platform that caters to advertisers that are brand advertisers, brand builders as
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well as, you know, direct response. And so that is a big area of investment. But
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the reason why from and I spend a lot of time talking to advertisers why they're
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all so excited about the ROI is that uh the the engagement is differentiated and
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that turns into ROI for advertisers. And what I mean by that is if you go to YouTube, you are really leaned in into
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what you're watching. You are a Mr. Beast superfan. You're a, you know, Michelle Kari superfan. You are a name
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your favorite creator super fan. And that is a different type of engagement that actually translates into different
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ROI regardless of where your objectives are in the marketing funnel. And that's that's our secret sauce. That's where
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that's where this $70 billion that we pay out to the creator economy and all these, you know, hundreds of thousands
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of jobs that we create in the creator ecosystem on a daily basis come from. Let me uh just uplevel this in a more
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general question. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, the cable channels and you know, the way that we consumed content was
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largely live. You know, we would tune in for shows and one of the byproducts of that was national culture, right? There
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would be these things that would enter the zeitgeist and you we'd all talk about it and we would be unified by it.
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And on the plus side of all of this infinite distribution is you get to watch what you want. The downside of it
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is there's really no connective thread almost that we all talk about that's the same. Um, how does YouTube view that
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problem? Is it a problem? Like is there a responsibility or are there things that you can do to kind of make things
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that are a little bit less on demand, a little bit more, you know, appointment viewing that kind
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of builds identity and culture? Yeah, I think it's I think it's a really interesting question and again, you
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know, the one of the consequences of what you're talking about visav the algorithm or
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what have you is, you know, you you guys open up your phones right now, that YouTube feed of yours is going to look
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like you, right? Like it really is about what you're genuinely interested in and
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and watching. And that does lead to it can lead to that type of that fragmentation that you're describing.
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Having said that, you know, if you ask um you know, someone a Gen Z or you know, a millennial sort of what were the
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top four or five sort of really big sort of breakout pop culture trends. A lot of
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them are actually an aggregation of a lot of these types of things and you know um they they could be trends that
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might be not the most relevant to all of us or this audience, but they are for a
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particular sort of age group. And so we do so the answer is that we do see a lot
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of those sort of national and in many cases because YouTube's a global platform two billion people come to it
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every single day there's enough aggregation even amongst these sort of niche areas where you do see some of
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that. The other thing that I will say about about um sort of how I think about it is I do think that um live and sort
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of like those water cooler type moments are really important. you saw uh you know you saw the biggest one of those
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happen on YouTube just two days ago. Um that Brazil game that Ari was mentioning
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was on YouTube. Yeah. And the reason why it was such such a success I would argue is because of that
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aperture what YouTube can obviously do from a reach standpoint. But the other reason and to the NFL's credit was you
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guys saw how relevant we were trying to make it for kind of this YouTube generation. And again, you obviously saw
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the integration with things like Destroying and Mr. Beast in the actual live stream of the game itself, but that
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sort of creator engagement through the lens of creators is something that sports leagues are leading to, which is
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sort of like what I describe as a new water cooler moment. What percent of watched media minutes do
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you guys have? Do you think if you look at all media broadcast movies? I mean, you guys know we're we're we're
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the number one streaming platform here in the US. So I think the latest Neielson's number was and we've been the
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number one streamer in the US here for 2 years and I think the number the latest
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Neielson number was I think something about about roughly about 13 13 14% of the of the TV watching audience. Um uh
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but remember that number doesn't include YouTube on mobile uh and so it's a television number.
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But to Ari's point do you see that growing? Are people spending more time consuming media because it's more
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personalized, it's more engaging, and they're finding perhaps more free time? I mean, I I do I mean, look, our numbers
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are growing. I think other streaming platforms are growing. Other, you know, mobile platforms are growing. I think if
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you look at sort of the totality of sort of human time, it's still sort of a relatively, you know, small portion of
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that. Um, yeah. Let me shift gears um to a different topic for a second. I think during co
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there's a real sense that the censorship was out of control on social media, not
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just YouTube but Twitter, Facebook, all of them. Uh if you question the efficacy
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of vaccines or social distancing or even on topics like the trans agenda or even
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uh climate change, there was a risk that you could be censored or shadowbanned or
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demonetized. It feels like we've the industry's kind of pulled back from that and um things have opened up again and a
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lot of that's I think due to what Elon did in terms of um buying Twitter and opening things back up. I guess my
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question is has the industry actually learned from that or is censorship just on pause during the Trump years.
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There's another fast get into it. Right. I like it. That's why Good question. It's a great question. Yeah. Yeah, you
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know, I I think that actually I'll just say a couple things about that and one of them will sound it's it's sort of
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actually connecting the the dots between the questions that you guys asked, which
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is, you know, the way I answered David's Dave's question is um first of all, I think a lot of these
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plat all of these platforms are are actually pretty different, right? Like what Twitter does is different than what
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you know, some of the meta platforms do, which of course is very different than what YouTube does. And you could argue
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um as witnessed from the rest of this conversation that we probably have a lot more similarity with you know a
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streaming platform than we do with a social media platform. So that that's one point but I think it's an important
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context into what I'm about to say. And the reason I say that is because you know 99% of what happens on YouTube is
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all the creators that I talked about all the podcasters you know the Taylor Swifts of the world all the music.
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Obviously music is our largest and you know most important vertical for example we're a music platform so that that is
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like even during co that is where a lot of the watch time on YouTube versus a discourse that might be happening in a
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social feed somewhere. Um that doesn't mean that we don't have comments on our videos and all that sort of piece which
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is where some of this you know discourse that you're alluding to David might have
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happened. Um I I do think yeah I so I think that at the highest level I do think that there is something about the
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fact that that was a very different time. I remember kind of March, April of 2020 where like oh my god like do you
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get this this way or is it this way or mask or this or I mean I literally woke up one day and there were like people
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climbing uh 5G cell towers and falling from cell towers because now it was like you could literally get the thing from
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cell towers. It sounds cell towers but it sounds crazy uh today but that was the nature of sort of the types of
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things that were popping up. So some lessons learned or regrets there. Let me let me just finish. So So
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that that's the context in which you know we were having to sort of make some of these decisions. Fast forward to
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today like obviously in a completely different world but just in terms of the nature of the disease and all that sort
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of a thing. So all of those sort of policies that existed back then are non-existent today. And it's my way of
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answering your question of like well is it a temporal thing or not? I would argue that a lot of these sort of like
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and by the way YouTube in particular was ex was was criticized to an extreme amount because of all the content that
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we left up on the platform around you know the Wuhan virus controversy around like you know whatever um all sorts of
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other things that we were leaving up that other places were were acting differently on and so we got beat up a
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lot sort of from one side of the spectrum then Um, and I think that our approach really just has to be
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flexible to the environment in the context of it. I think we're always going to get criticized by being an open
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platform. There's a lot of magic that happens because of the open platform. All these amazing creators wouldn't
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exist if we didn't have an open platform and we didn't stand for for free speech.
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But there's also a lot of Hold I want to follow up on this if I may. There there are two categories that
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I um I have in my feed because of the algorithm. firearms and uh poker. Both of those groups of creators are um a
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little bit up in arms uh no pun intended because they are being demonetized. So,
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how do you make a decision on who's allowed to earn and who's not allowed to earn uh and be part of the ad network?
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Poker folks and people who do firearm safety and and firearm training uh and best practices, they're demonetized um
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and they're complaining about it now. How do you make those kind of decisions? Um, a lot of them are incredibly
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successful creators on our platform, Jason, but not monetized. No, some of them are monetized as well.
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So, we we do have a clear set of rules and we've had these for a long time in terms of sales of firearms and those
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types of things. And obviously, there's there's legal frameworks and all those types of things around it. But I think,
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you know, in terms of firearms community and learning about firearms and safety, which obviously is
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an important thing, especially for for young people, um we're one of the largest places where those audiences
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exist, as well as monetization of that type of content. Now the balance and you know obviously and some of this comes
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from um you know experts that we've worked with in that vertical itself around something might be appropriate
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for an adult user of that type of content that may not be appropriate for a child and those types of things. So
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there's a lot of nuance behind it, but the poker I don't I mean are we like there's
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probably something around sports gambling legality and all that sort of stuff but generally speaking as
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you guys know there's an enormous amount of poker content that's incredibly successful in
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our platform is back to what Chimath was saying which is like whatever niche there is out there however big or
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however small you're going to find a set of creators that are just as passionate
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about it as as you are. I think the interesting question is how do you organize yourself across all the
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different countries in you're in and the scale that you're at to deal with the cultural nuances of every different
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country and then to deal with the laws of every different country and then to deal as David said sometimes the
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vicissitudes of social policy in every country. How do you deal with that organizationally?
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Like what does that actually look like? Yeah, it's the part that turns my hair hair white. But uh look I think part of
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it I say this to my team all the time which is it is a challenge right because we but I
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think it's a challenge that honestly like I view it as a bit of a privilege in the sense that it wouldn't be
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important if we weren't such an important place especially for young people to uh connect get information
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entertain themselves learning we're the largest learning platform uh in the world. We know that obviously um just
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given all the use cases and the watch time etc. And so at least from my standpoint I try to be
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as global as we possibly can in terms of principles. You know one of the things that I always say about um YouTube is
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like you know our northstar principle and you know uh has always been um give everyone a voice and show them the
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world. That's our mission statement. Uh it stands for freedom of expression, freedom of speech. We are, you know, an
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American company and that that notion that sort of value of freedom of spee speech is core to our ethos and we
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really do try to start with that as a global position. Having said that, you're right like there is an enormous
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patchwork of legislation and regulation that exists in every country. Are there people that are writing
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policies that then some folks just have to understand and they're manually trying to react to here's how we deal
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with this issue in India. here's how we deal with this issue in Brazil. Here's how we deal with it in France.
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Yeah. I mean, look, the answer is um or is it algorithmic or is it a combination?
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It's it's always some combination because you know the scale of YouTube is you know hundreds of hours of content is
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uploaded to YouTube every single minute of every single day. Um we want to be um
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as core to that north star as possible. You know, frankly, there's there's situations where we have to push back on
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that that core uh push back on sort of what might be um an encroachment on that sort of a principle. Having said that,
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we also of course, you know, have to legally operate in all of these countries just like any other platform.
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There's three products, Neil, I'm super obsessed with and I just would love to get your your take on them in terms of
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priorities for you. YouTube TV, unbelievable. Unbelievable. YouTube Red. That is a great product.
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Uh YouTube Red, which I think is YouTube Premium taking the ads off. Unbelievable. And then I think a sleeper
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is you've kind of built in Patreon like functionality subscriptions. So maybe you can walk us through the footprint of
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each of those and the prioritization of those because they do seem to have had a
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a significant impact on engagement and how people look at the platform. Yeah. No, and I'm super proud of all
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three of those products. as a product guy myself, like that's that's the fun part of the job is actually building all
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of these amazing products and um uh you know the the their origin story on YouTube TV. I I'm a sports nut. I'm like
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I'm and actually the the people on my team, a lot of them who've been involved with YouTube TV since the very early
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days are also big sports guys and I'm also a news junkie and that's the core use case of YouTube TV in many ways. if
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you think about sort of the the features that we built, multiv- view, key plays,
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even some of the fantasy integrations that you see. So, that's the lens through which you should think about how
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we're going to continue to develop that product. Uh, and the thought and the question I would always get is like,
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well, why are you guys doing this? Like, look at what's happening to that part of
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the the the the paid ecosystem, right? Like, why are you diving into this thing that's like this sort of like, you know,
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shrinking shrinking thing? And our thought was like, well, a lot of it has to do with the fact that like
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reinventing that whole experience from the standpoint of a fan or a consumer. And so that's the YouTube TV um origin
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and sort of where it's going. The one thing that you should, you know, pay attention to is um something that we
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call prime time channels in YouTube, which is a lot of those same sort of linear
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channels or sort of traditional media channels, but that you can buy all a cart in the main YouTube app.
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Uh and so that that there's connectivity between those two products. Yeah, I was wondering when that would
00:22:02
happen because for me it's just CNBC. I want to have it inside of YouTube, but I
00:22:06
have to load it. And then when I travel, it's always like, "Oh, what region are you in?" Premium, how many premium
00:22:12
subscribers are there now? How is that growing? How does that affect the ad business? Because for me, the ads are
00:22:18
death. I just I need my time back. So, how do you think about that? Yeah. Um I do think that for our
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business um advertising is going to remain ha is today and will remain the predominant way through which we
00:22:32
monetize on behalf of creators. That 70 billion number that I mentioned most of it comes from ads and the reason is
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because you know at at a fundamental level we are a platform of scale two billion two billion people come to it
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every single day. Having said that, like giving consumer choice, you know, uninterrupted experience uh is
00:22:52
important. There's about 125 million uh subscribers um 25 million pay uh YouTube premium.
00:22:59
Amazing. How does that money get split with the creators? So, if I'm watching Mr. Beast
00:23:03
without ads, how do you There there's there's a kind of roughly sort of engagement watchtime type
00:23:09
calculation. Is TV basically the biggest cable subscriber base equivalent? Are we are you um you know
00:23:17
where do you guys rank in cable subscribers? Actually, you know, it's interesting the
00:23:20
way that even the way you guys are talking about it is like well that's like your uninterrupted sort of TV
00:23:25
subscription tier, which is how I think lots of people think about it. The origin uh of YouTube Premium was
00:23:32
actually a music premium music subscription service, right? It was like called YouTube Music and Premium. And so
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a lot of those 125 million subs are not just people who are watching it just the
00:23:41
way that they would watch like you know Netflix or Amazon without ads. There's a
00:23:46
lot of that but a lot of it is just actually music fans too. Like people who for whom their music service is actually
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Spotify is YouTube right? Like where they discover music where they listen to you know watch their favorite videos is
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YouTube. So how do you have like a uninterrupted music service when you have all these incredible AI
00:24:03
models all over the place? People will be generating all kinds of content. Some of that content could be news content,
00:24:08
topical content. You know, it could talk about a vaccine. It could talk about whatever. Do you guys feel you have a
00:24:15
responsibility to figure out whether that's real or not? Do you think that's the role of the actual creators? Do you
00:24:20
think it should be, you know, the CDC should have a YouTube channel where they watermark the stuff that they put out?
00:24:25
And then so like whose responsibility is this going to be? Yeah, I think and how much of it is our responsibility
00:24:31
as a consumer? I mean, look, I think that, um, here's how I think about it. First, um,
00:24:41
with the growth of these AI enablement tools, um, you're going to see that like the distinction between like was it
00:24:49
completely AI generated, was it AI assisted, etc. is going to be a continuum. So, that's that's the first
00:24:54
piece. Um, and we're already seeing that. We see that on YouTube obviously. you know, you open up the YouTube app,
00:25:00
you hit that plus button, um you can type in a text prompt and it will generate a video for you using our VO
00:25:06
models, right? Um so that that is already happening. One of the things that we do um is um there is a label
00:25:15
that says that you know you know # AI generated and um we will put that sort we call it sort of front of the box. We
00:25:21
will literally put that on the video and in some cases usually it's in the metadata. Um that's obviously not
00:25:27
foolproof. Um, but I I think the way at least from a principal standpoint, the way I think about it is, you know,
00:25:36
YouTube has these, you know, community guidelines. We try to be transparent about them. We publish them on our
00:25:42
website. And I think that sort of like a a priory distinction between, well, it was AI generated, therefore it must be
00:25:49
violative versus not actually is not the way to do it. Um, and it's really just about giving as much transparency to the
00:25:56
users as possible. Um, and then the other thing that's really important is in the creator
00:26:02
business, in the creativ creativity business, whether you're a Hollywood celebrity or a YouTuber or or an artist,
00:26:11
the the thing that I hear over and over that they really care about is their likeness. And so if you're Taylor Swift,
00:26:18
it's your voice. If it's if you're, you know, Marquez Brownley, it is your face like your live. It's your
00:26:24
No, I mean it's there are people doing live chimoth things to give Bitcoin away and I send it to him and I report it
00:26:30
sometime. I send it to Neil. I send it to Neil and I'll tell you the AI slop issue is
00:26:35
getting bad. Send it to me directly instead of tagging me. Um the the no the issue really is like um I'm a
00:26:43
Corvette fan and um the the incentive is so perverse I've had to ban a bunch of these channels that show me thumbnails
00:26:52
of this is the new Corvette, this is the new prototype and it's AI slop and it's
00:26:57
obvious what they're doing is they're trying to insert themselves into the algorithm and then I just ban them. So
00:27:01
you do give control, but I do think really labeling them is import I don't want to put the burden on you to do
00:27:07
that. I think the labeling is one piece but the the thing that I was going to say is the other thing and we have a
00:27:11
track record of content ID which is basically the rights management system that you could argue basically created
00:27:17
that whole creator economy in the first place YouTube success. It saved YouTube.
00:27:21
So content ID is think about that metaphor as it applies to AI. Yeah. Wonderful. So we are working on this
00:27:28
notion of I call it sort of likeness detection where if it's a chimoth face um the algorithm should be good enough
00:27:38
to actually detect that and then give you a choice as to whether that should come down
00:27:42
right is that does that come down or you know there might be some creators that choose
00:27:46
to monetize it and give so giving creator we can take ownership of it you can take ownership of it
00:27:51
so people take our clips make versions of us as dogs or and it for us it's not just words we
00:27:56
actually have a tracker record of doing that because of something like content ID.
00:28:00
Ladies and gentlemen, Neil Mo, thanks for being here. Thanks, brother. Appreciate it.
00:28:07
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Of course.