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a major resignation now an editor at the New York Times showing up for work as a
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Centrist that an American newspaper should not require bravery she's saying no one should be allowed to criticize me
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please welcome Barry Wise anyone that departs from wol Orthodoxy gets a lot more heat a new consensus has emerged in
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the Press but perhaps especially at this paper if you don't have the right views
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everything is caveat edited triple quadruple amount of times should it take courage to say that those who praise the
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pristine Subways of Russia are not journalists but propagandist should it take courage to just say in public I
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[Music] disagree join me in welcoming Barry Weiss to the [Applause] stage hi Barry
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Barry thanks for being here thanks for having me thanks for the cool weather really appreciate it yes um Barry made
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headlines in I'm going to give you a little introduction even though most everyone here knows who you are but you
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made headlines in 2020 when you left the New York Times criticizing it stance on
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free speech and diversity of thought and since then you've launched the Free Press congrats I know a lot of folks
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here are subscribers um and the the Free Press declares itself a a free press for free
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people honest independent and fearless I think we all respect and admire you for
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your fiercely independent thinking and direct and honest takes on current events and social issues we feel like
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you're a kindred kindred spirit yes a besty I wish um so this may be an audition let's see
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well I don't know if you guys can handle having a woman in I'm not sure no no we
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can just not sex so um look I want to start with a very broad General um question that you
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can take in any direction you want what's going on in America what are the two sides because it seems like a lot of
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what has as we've been hearing a lot about and I think we're going to hear more about throughout this
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conference there are polarizing forces at play and the PO the polls kind of get defined differently but is there a
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unifying thesis here um there's the notion of populists and elitists is are there elitists that say I'm an elitist
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there's uh corporate and government folks vers pocket square says you're El yes uh my pocket square keeps slipping
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um there's the conservatives versus the Liberals I mean what what what is the divide in the United States and what is
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causing the polarity what how would you think about the polarity that's emerged I think there's two ways broadly that I
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would answer that and obviously besties push back on me as I know David sack surely will um what one way to think
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about it and I think Martin gurri has written about this absolutely brilliantly in his book The Revolt of
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the public probably the most important book written in the last 25 years read it if you haven't strip press published
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it say it again Martin gur's book it's called the Revolt of the public and broadly would he prophesied without
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using the words Donald Trump or BLM or any of the phenomenon that have reshaped American political life over the past
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several decades is the sort of um call it the ren ades versus The Establishment or The Outsiders versus the Insiders if
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you want to understand how it can be that Dick Cheney and kamla Harris are on one side and Donald Trump and Tulsi
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Gabbert and Robert F Kennedy whatever you think of any of those people are on the other that's how you have to
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understand that I think another way that I've been thinking about a lot though is
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is sort of like there are three sides that I see that are emerging and I think the Free Press is trying to position
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itself in what I believe is the broad self-silencing majority piece of the pie which is to
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say there's a woke left there's increasingly a woke right and then there's the normal people and the normal
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PE I mean this is what people come up I went to a thing for my daughter's new preschool yesterday and there were some
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Free Press readers and they didn't come up to me to talk about any particular piece they just said thank you for being
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normal and normal was the adjective that almost all of them used and so I think that that's also something that's
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happening where you know I'm sure has has has already been discussed at this conference we have this Horseshoe in
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which the left the identitarian sort of anti-liberal left illiberal left sounds eerily similar at times to the
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illiberalism of the right and they sort of are in this dance with each other and
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the rest of us are feeling like when did everything get so crazy and is there a return to normaly and I'm not saying a
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return to normaly in the sense of like returning to some kind of like neoliberal consensus I just mean a
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return to the things that I think many of us still believe are just basic common sensical American values that
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right now feel Under Siege let's talk about the media's role in this you and I have been career journalists um editors
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and so when we were coming up they would take your piece whatever you wrote and just say well this is an opinion they'd
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strike it out and say who are you attributing this to there was a very thoughtful process and then something
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happened economically with link baiting and maybe trying to get more clicks and then this very strange thing happened
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when Donald Trump got elected that I think you and I both witnessed which was journalists who
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were you know thought of themselves as independent and storytellers who would just present the facts to an audience
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then saw themselves um as part of the resistance and that they had to stop this individual um because they believed
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he was Hitler and and the marketing when you went to the guardian or the Washington Post or the New York Times at
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the bottom of the New York at the bottom of a trump story would say if you want us to hold truth to power and stop Trump
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give us your credit card yeah and this seemed like just bizarre moment maybe you could just talk about that Paradigm
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shifting because it happened during the economic turmoil as well when journalism
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got gutted I think it's deeper than I think the the roots of this are deeper than Trump we actually have a piece
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we're running tomorrow afternoon called when we started lying that's sort of a view from someone that was in the Middle
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East Bureau of the AP and seeing the roots of this back in 20052 2006 and what that piece argues and I think it's
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exactly put is people don't really understand that the fundamental job description of mainstream journalism has
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changed it used to be that the job of Journalism and I still believe that this is the job is to hold up a mirror to the
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world as it actually is so people can make sensible rational decisions about where to send their kids to school about
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where to live about who to vote for about all of the things that are important in this life tell the story
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about reality as plainly and as truthfully as you can that is plainly no longer the goal I think of many main
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mainstream I should put in quotes American journalists the job description as they see it is to Usher You toward
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the correct political position that's it and once you begin to understand that things that seem crazy like wait how did
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they not tell me about the hunter lap Biden laptop story or why did they tell me that the thing that I saw with my own
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eyes which is the obvious mental decline of the president of the United States which is relevant to every single person
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in this country and in the world was a lie and once you start to understand that you understand the misconstrual of
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certain stories you understand the absolute silence around others and frankly that's why we're all here like
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it's given this tremendous opportunity for people who crave that thing that journalism used to do the truth can you
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well can you the truth yeah can you just double yeah the truth just double click
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into that like it's not like there's like some Grand cabal of people that decide let's obfuscate Biden fine let's
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Elevate this so what does it what does it actually mean day-to-day like how how is it happening okay is it the money is
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it the incentives what is happening there's a few things that happened the first as Jason was alluding to is that
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the economic model changed it used to be that if you ran a piece in the New York
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Times your fear was you were going to piss off The Advertiser that was running next to the story once the business
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model shifted you no longer were as concerned about although you still are to some extent about enraging you know
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Proctor and Gamble you're worried about enraging the reader right this is the phenomenon that so many people have
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talked about which is which is audience capture which is as you know the individual sub stalker is as susceptible
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to this as the New York Times none of us are free from that phenomenon either people respond to your article and say
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that was stupid or that pissed me off and then you feel pressure to change unsubscribe or unsubscribe no so think
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about this Accord and and I I think that these are public figures but um something like 95 to 98% of readers at
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the New York Times and I'm choosing that only CU it's the experience I know most
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intimately regard themselves as liberals or progressives so if you write and I'm
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thinking about my wife who writes about in her book how she after the violent rioting that happened in places like
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Kenosha she was a business reporter went and reported on those stories and found
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that the story was unbelievably complicated that many of these business owners were minority small business
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owners they did not have insurance they were absolutely devastated by what happened and you know what happened she
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brought was an excellent story back to her editors and they said let's wait until after the election to run this so
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that's the kind of thing that would happen a lot and no there's not like some secret cabal meeting that happens
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where it says let's make sure that we lie to our readers about Joe Biden's mental state it's the exact same
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phenomenon that everyone here feels in any Social Scene or company or institution that they're a part of which
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is that human beings are social animals and if you look at the kinds of people that work at the New York Times They
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went to the same 10 boarding schools or fancy schools and the same 10 colleges and they marinated in the same set of
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ideas and they want their kids to go to the same schools in Brooklyn Heights or the upper west side and that creates
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this very particular group thinking phenomenon let me add one thing which is that was always there the thing that I
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think has changed a lot in the past let's call it 20 years is that the very places that used to be feeders to the
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New York Times were no longer feeding in sort of your standard Center left liberal Democrat they were feeding in a
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kind of person who believed in something like Revolution and believed that their
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job was to Fu that inside the New York Times oh but how does that say more about what does that what do you mean
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well what I mean by that is that they did not you could look at the values of the New York Times and sorry okay wait
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just go back a step so the people in the New York Times are fancy basically is what you're saying I'm not saying their
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fanciness is sort of beside the point point is that there was an archetype yeah of course and then that archetype
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shifted right and is that because the feeder schools changed or is that because what they were taught at those
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schools changed it's because wokeness happened to American liberalism and the people that were speaking the language
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of progressivism all of a sudden transformed the notion of what let's say social justice was right all of a sudden
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social justice wasn't about doing good by the poor it was actually about a kind of neoism and a resegregate all of a
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sudden progressivism wasn't actually about human flourishing and progress it was about you know ensuring equality of
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outcome rather than equality of opportunity and I don't think that the sort of that transformation which some
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people have said oh wokeness has peaked it's over it cannot be overstated the thing that began at the margins and at
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the fr has moved into the center of American institutional life and that is the story
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of the transformation of the New York Times and it's the story of the transformation of Harvard and so many
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other places where people all of a sudden turned around and thought when did everything get so insane is it a
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story that ends in socialism as it has in past lives I think that you know I'm an optimist this is America and I think
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that there's an unbelievable push back to this phenomenon but the push back I believe we uh we we have Elon here this
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afternoon right the push back and this is where I guess I'm more of a radical than a reformer I think I began at the
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New York Times as a reformer believing that I could make a difference and I God Bless the people who are still trying to
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do that I think there's a role for both I think what has made me more of a radical not politically but just in
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terms of my posture has been that I've become someone who believes that the way to change those institutions is not to
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give money to those places or join the board of them or delude yourself with the idea that you can transform them
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from within it's to build new things and in building new things and creating competition it forces the other people
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to to to change J give a voice to the people if you if you wouldn't mind give a voice to the people that want to Buck
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the trend that want to be able to respond to the statement that they are morally bankrupt if they identify that
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this is not the right path what what's the conversation that and this is happening with everyone I know in
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schools in workplaces it's not just the institution of the New York Times it's all institutions okay it starts with
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something very simple give up the heroin needle of prestige rip it out of your arm
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immediately stop poisoning yourself your families and your children with the bankrupt notion that them getting into
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Harvard or Yale is more important than inculcating in them a sense of Love of family of country and of all of the
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things we used to think were normal that to that that isn't clapping cuz he went to Stanford
00:14:50
but to me to me that it begins with that because I I find myself in these baffling conversations with people where
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they say thank you for what you do I'm so grateful for the Free Press I'm so grateful I'm like yeah and we're talking
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it's great I'm like where do your kids go to school and then and then they name a place that's like the center of the
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Mind virus and I'm like why would you do that well that Al Alca was all filled up
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yeah they reach their capacities up right so to me it's sort of the beginning of wisdom begins with that and
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with the confidence that Prestige and honor is not something that is granted to you
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by institutions that have allowed themselves to be corrupted by morally bankrupt people you you and your values
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they're lucky to have you right that's what I think like the fundamental posture needs to change let's um talk
00:15:48
about the new stuff we're all building the go direct movement all these new brands you're one of them we're one of
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them I suppose are we going to talk about founder mode and are you guys going to explain to me what that is I
00:15:57
mean cocaine I no in your no bar it's cocaine really yeah founder Mode's cocaine yeah it's good we have actually
00:16:03
the good I've never done founder mode I can only guess but no my guy's got the best founder modes I put some in your
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green room thank you so much yeah yeah um if you need more let me know um so I want to I think I've been doing founder
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mode if founder mode means like working till you collapse every night for three no no that just means being committed
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and trying to build a business yeah we're talking about cocaine founder mode being a
00:16:25
deal it's back um yeah but let's seriously talk about um it's so funny back baby it's back woo
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it's going to be a great show um so I want to talk to you about uh the new stuff that's being built um obviously
00:16:44
you have your subscription based business doing wonderfully we've got the information we've got all in um and then
00:16:50
you have you know everybody who got kicked off of um you know broadcast television um or what you know for
00:16:59
whatever reasons they left Don Lemon Megan Kelly uh what's that Catherine harage yeah it's fantastic yeah so tons
00:17:07
of long tail there but um this group is also susceptible to the same things as you pointed out and and perhaps in some
00:17:14
ways more susceptible because they've got a less subscriber base less brand so Fox News is going to be fine New York
00:17:23
Times is going to be fine but as we saw this past week uh the Russians put $10 million into a little slush fund and
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then gave it to start with no no I'm not talking to saxs I'm talking to uh to to
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Barry he's talking to sa through Barry thank God I'm not managing these people well no no I'm just curious what you're
00:17:40
I mean these are obviously you know as the Russians would call them the usful idiots but they're they didn't even know
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they were getting millions of dollars they didn't ask where it was coming from um obviously you didn't take that money
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we didn't get offered that money unfortunately otherwise you would have taken it yeah we would have sec we would
00:17:55
have secured that bag immediately free money from the Russi we're like the scene in The Matrix where
00:18:01
Neo's dodging the bullets in one nicks's leg that's the Russian money cuz it was
00:18:05
flying everywhere and Jal was trying to jump into the bullets and you know trying to collect them and it's like
00:18:11
it's all we can do to just we wanted to get that uh that sweet sweet money but what was your your what's your take on
00:18:18
this cuz you had some strong feelings when uh I think Tucker went um and did his what you thought was propaganda for
00:18:26
Putin um and so let's talk about you know how susceptible in your mind um these voices are to being bought and
00:18:36
paid for apparently to me it's less about allegedly being bought and paid for I think what it is is there's a
00:18:44
really really understandable risk that once you sort of eject yourself from the Matrix or whatever the right metaphor is
00:18:51
stop taking the blue the blue pale T it's like once you see one lie all of a sudden the it comes a world of lies and
00:19:00
what's to stop you sort of from falling down the rabbit hole and I'll give you an example there's certain people I
00:19:05
don't want to name them who like I so admired and I felt like they were really precient on stand on standing up against
00:19:14
sort of the neo-racism from the left let's say and then all of a sudden I turn around and they're basically
00:19:20
talking about how Bill Gates is like putting 5G chips in our brain and I think to myself how did that happen and
00:19:26
I think the way that it happened is an really understandable human impulse which is these people lied to me about
00:19:34
this thing therefore everything they say is untrue or these PE or or the Overton
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window has been narrowed so so tightly that I'm just going to fling it open to I don't know someone that says that
00:19:50
Churchill is a villain and the Nazis may have had a point so that's what I think
00:19:57
is is actually happening more broadly and I think the I feel often times at the Free Press like
00:20:04
we're dancing on the edge of a knife which is to say on one side you have these institutions that have the poor
00:20:12
gatekeeping but at least it's I mean they have gatekeeping they have fact Checkers they have this whole system
00:20:18
right that's corrupt but at least it was supposed to work at one point and then you have kind of the Wild West world and
00:20:24
the wild west world has everything and so you know can see Alex Jones right alongside you know a a fantastic
00:20:33
journalist like Megan Kelly and how are you supposed to know who is who right and so that's the challenge I think of
00:20:41
the new Wild West world and what we're desperately trying to do at the Free Press is to be the bridge and what I
00:20:49
mean by that is to marry the standards that you would once expect from a place like the Washington Post or the New York
00:20:56
Times in other words everything is rigorously fact checked when we get something wrong we publicly correct it
00:21:03
like all of those old rules but Maring them to the sort of political freedom of the new world can you take us into an
00:21:09
instance where a contributor because you have a lot of freelance contributors or
00:21:12
just you know important people will want to publish now in the Free Press which I
00:21:16
think is a really good sign for you um that you're doing something meaningful um that they submit something and you're
00:21:21
like okay this is not actually reporting this is your opinion on a conspiracy and we need to maybe get some
00:21:30
facts in here to boister this opinion of yours because I mean these dopes accepted $100,000 who never asked it so
00:21:38
then people are going to take their opinion on Ukraine and and look at that as factual when they don't even question
00:21:43
who gave them $100,000 an episode I mean you the these people are obviously idiots SLC corrupt what do you think I
00:21:51
wish I had read more about this particular story well it's infuriating because if somebody were to drop
00:21:56
$100,000 on you to publish the Free Press on another website you'd say where's the money coming from correct
00:22:02
yeah I mean why are we getting free money yeah we don't get free money probably because I'm too stupid to get
00:22:08
free money but no no it's the opposite you're too smart so they wouldn't offer it maybe I mean I the the scenario
00:22:14
you're asking me to go into that happens every single day in other words we're in
00:22:18
a really excellent position where we turn down the majority of things that are submitted to us and and I think the
00:22:25
thing that's really heartening is what are readers reward is the very thing that we were founded to get in other
00:22:33
words when I left the New York Times the Free Press Barry weiss subs.com and it began as a reactionary product honestly
00:22:40
like now it's transformed itself but it began as me being so pissed that they were ignoring and lying about so much
00:22:49
and those were the stories that I ran sort of headlong into mostly institutional capture in the areas of
00:22:54
law and medicine and education but just to choose an example a few hours ago we you know we sent Leon Woodhouse an
00:23:01
amazing reporter I saw as everyone here did that the Third Precinct in Minneapolis during the BLM protest and
00:23:08
rioting burned to the ground and the cops abandoned that station and I wondered what do the cops in the third
00:23:15
precinct what do the small business owners there what do they think about Tim Walls now that is a natural story
00:23:21
that in a normal time the New York Times would report on immediately when he was
00:23:26
chosen but they didn't and so we sent Lon and he interviewed two dozen police officers and small business owners and
00:23:33
that is the kind of thing that our readers want they want new information soberly presented and brilliantly
00:23:40
written they want really high quality things and to me that's one of the things about building the business has
00:23:46
been the most heartening David saaks has not said a word well let me uh found let me I can
00:23:53
actually let me let me uh agree with a few things you said um so first of all I agree with you that the mainstream media
00:24:00
is not just biased it's just like all propaganda all the time and the turning point for me in realizing this was Co I
00:24:08
think before covid I realized that yeah you know the media the MRE media is largely consists of liberals so they're
00:24:14
going to have a liberal bias what we saw during covid was that they were even lying about science right it wasn't just
00:24:20
politics it's like everything you know we were told that um the pandemic was a pandemic of the unvaccinated even though
00:24:27
even if you got the what they were calling the vaccine it didn't actually stop the spread you go on and on that
00:24:33
you know we had to basically do social distancing except when the Riots of 2020 happened then you're allowed to go
00:24:38
outside and actually participate because it's a social justice cause so therefore
00:24:42
the health changes I mean it was like on and on church but you can go to a protest right right so no surfing so it
00:24:48
was like for me it became so obvious that uh that the media is just again it goes Way Beyond bias you know it's like
00:24:54
it's just all wrong now at the same time I think that you do raise a good point which is once
00:25:00
you're outside the world of The Prestige media yeah you are kind of on your own you're on you're on Independent
00:25:07
platforms I use x to try and figure out you know who I should listen to and the way I do it is I compare who said what
00:25:17
compared to what actually happened so like who ended up being right about the issues and then I will follow them more
00:25:24
and I will def follow the people who are wrong it's really simple for example on
00:25:29
the issue of Ukraine the number one quoted Source in the mainstream media is a think tank called The Institute for
00:25:36
the study of War it's basically a a neocon funded Think Tank who are the relatives of Victoria new newand who is
00:25:44
the architect of our policy in Ukraine everything they've written over the past two and a half years about Ukraine has
00:25:50
been proven wrong they said that the summer counter offensive last summer was going to be a giant Victory it ended up
00:25:55
being a disaster sorry these are her relatives yourself relatives and the the mainstream media the New York Times so
00:26:01
on quotes isw it's if you go look at the the citations it is the single most sighted
00:26:09
Authority by the mainstream media and they are consistently wrong who is right about the Sumer counter offensive well I
00:26:16
was for example while we're handing out credit and I and I and I and I certainly didn't
00:26:23
need to be paid by the Russians I just figured out what the truth was okay jcal uh so you know you you you bring up you
00:26:31
bring up these you know these um stories about Russian influence or whatever the
00:26:36
real influence operation in this country is by the mainstream media they're the ones who are spreading disinformation
00:26:43
about the war in Ukraine and so many other issues on a scale that dwarfs what any of these like handful of podcasters
00:26:49
that most people have never heard of uh can ever hope to accomplish so in any event I agree with you when's the
00:26:55
foreign policy panel at this conference and can I join it well yeah we're going to do shimer and s m shimer and saxs on
00:27:04
saxs on M shimer well look I would um well we're having yeah John Mir shimer and Jeffrey Sachs are speaking tomorrow
00:27:11
so they're doing a Tay T but yeah if you want to stick around and we could have maybe you and John we can work that I
00:27:17
have a I have a question you got you've got some time right now right now you me
00:27:21
no no go go on last um last year this would be like a many hours conversation well last year one of the most popular
00:27:29
things that come out of this was a talk about regulatory capture by Bill Gurley and you mentioned that the first thing
00:27:35
Bill Gurley that's cheering for Bill and not regulatory capture cheering for bill um
00:27:42
he's great but you said that when you left the times you threw yourself sort of like head first into the into the
00:27:48
regulatory capture of the law and medicine and whatnot uh what did you learn I would say regulatory capture I
00:27:53
would say ideological capture ideological capture okay so what did you learn I mean we've published so much on this
00:28:00
but but basically the way in which institutions intended for one purpose have come to serve another another one
00:28:08
or another God and you know in the case of medicine which I would think would be
00:28:14
maybe the most alarming in the law um not actually intending I mean the purpose of medicine is to do no harm and
00:28:23
yet all of a sudden in many hospitals and and medical schools across the country people were being told to do
00:28:31
something very different to meet out care based on race to you know to shuffle young teenage girls especially
00:28:40
toward irreversible changes in their bodies and and things of that nature so a lot of it
00:28:46
comes back to the fundamental theme we we've been sort of been circling in this conversation which is that ideological
00:28:53
change that's happened um and I think just to go back to where where we began this conversation it's like where did
00:29:00
all this come from I I don't think it's possible to understand these changes and
00:29:04
like the Rebel Alliance maybe that's risen up against it without talking about technology and and the reality
00:29:12
that we like 20 years ago 30 years ago I would have just left the New York Times
00:29:17
and and just maybe opened a diner done done something completely different this this would not have been available to me
00:29:23
and it's kind of unbelievable what's what's been made Poss I by technology I mean I'm not
00:29:30
someone who I've never managed a person in my life I never raised money in my life I never imagin I'd be an
00:29:35
entrepreneur I can barely log into substack and now I have a company with 50 full-time employees it's unbelievable
00:29:42
that's amazing yeah congratulations that's founder mode and I that's the real founder mode and and and I I would
00:29:48
just add that you know what the truth is on any particular issue is not always obvious it's a process to figure it out
00:29:56
and so we have to have these alternatives in order to debate the issues and then arrive at the truth and
00:30:01
you again compare what people said to what actually happens and you try to figure out who you can trust and the
00:30:07
good news is that today we have these Alternatives we have alternative media of which you're a major part all in PO
00:30:13
is a major part and I think these alternatives are building in reaction to basically the corruption of the
00:30:19
mainstream media which I think you're spot on about I think that the the challenge at least I'll say for the Free
00:30:25
Press is there are a lot of people out there who their goal and they're doing it beautifully is to make a lot of money
00:30:33
really quickly and to be very influential as oneman bands what we are trying to do is something much more
00:30:41
long-term we are trying in an age where no one trusts institutions anymore and they only trust individuals and
00:30:48
influencers to stealthily build an institution and what that requires is a kind of discipline to give up and we do
00:30:57
a lot of things that would really stuff our pockets in the short term not the Russians but other things um for the
00:31:05
sake of building what is to us the thing of the most value which is trust with the audience and they I believe see us
00:31:15
doing that and see us publishing things that might enrage them that they might disagree with that might provoke them
00:31:21
and we think that that's just a part of that that is fundamental to our mission it's great ladies and gentlemen Harry
00:31:28
Weiss thank you [Music] [Applause]