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hey everybody it's me jason
calacanis welcome welcome hey everybody it's me jason thank god
trump's out i hate trump and i love myself
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and they've just gone crazy everybody happy
days over here again champagne cottage bottles
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popping both again happy days are here again
yay sax is so happy trump's out of office he
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gave an amazing speech about how great biden's
inauguration was welcome to the all-in podcast
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oh my gosh with me today in our post inauguration
after glow is the dictator the queen of quinoa
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david friedenberg and riding the blue wave diving
in no more red pills the blue wave is david
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rain man sax is with us david how did it feel to
watch biden's inauguration speech which you said
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hit all the notes and i see you wearing blue today
let me have a sip of my woof click oh and tell us
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you've got the blue jacket the blue shirt and
the blue headset on you've ridden the blue wave
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tell us how you feel with biden in office i'm
going to drink my viv jason i'm just happy to
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see that uh that you're happy ah and uh it's
it's does this mean does this mean that i that
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uh your trump derangement is over you're uh you've
gone uh cold turkey you're on the wagon and uh
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yeah i'm just happy i'm just happy to have my
friend back and uh not have you part of this uh this trump derangement zombie horde that uh
that you've been in for the last few years i
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uh i'll tell you two quick stories um the first
one turned out not to be true but there was a new
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york times alert that came out this weekend saying
that um they were gonna lift the travel plan
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and um for uh for a moment i was like i i
was a i was a little in shock and you know
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my my i'm canadian my family's in canada
i haven't seen them in a year my mom is 80 years old i haven't seen her in a year um and
then the second was on the day the inauguration
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biden signed an eo um i guess that
that you know starts to get basically um create a path to citizenship
and there are um you know two women
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in my life who i i think are just lovely lovely
people who i've never been able to hire and uh
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and now this gives us a path to
hire them and compensate them and the way that we wanted to and so in in these
moments i started crying and uh i i've probably
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had three or four moments and i realized like holy
[ __ ] i have had so much pent-up emotion waiting
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for honestly just like a normal average day um and
like simple humane good things and i'm not i'm not
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trying to sort of jump on the biden bandwagon
i think that he's got a lot of work to do
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but but i i do think that just at a level simple
basic level of humanity it was a different it was a big sea change how did you take it
freeburg i'm curious did you cry as well
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i observed the inauguration it was interesting
i didn't upgrade your firmware sorry we were
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supposed to push the two david firmwares for
the ability to cry but did you feel any emotion
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of the three emotions we've given you
in your programming did any of them move at all i don't remember i mean i don't
remember the origin of my non-emotional
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um uh characterization uh jason but um yeah
i think it's just based on every interaction
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we've ever had with you but continue right i guess
that makes sense so um i feel like the biden um
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the biden moment uh on on inauguration day um it
really did feel like a sigh of relief because so
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much of trump love him or hate him has been driven
by a degree of tension right i mean he came in
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uh to office on the premise that he was going
to drain the swamp i mean that's kind of a very kind of active um you know position he's
going to go in he's going to change things and
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and i think you know the biden tone
is like let's take it down a notch let's all take a deep breath and i feel like that
that generated a collective side relief i'll also
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say that i watch that with the eyes of someone
who voted for trump um i didn't vote for trump uh
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but um i don't think i voted this year uh i
can't remember it was in the middle of pandemic but um i basically feel like there's a lot of
folks it's easy to say let's unite the country
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um when you're on the winning side and when
you're not and you're sitting there and your guy
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got kicked out of office and your guy claimed that
he got kicked out because of fraudulent activity
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and you're one of the 46 percent of americans that
are already disapproving of biden's performance
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in his first two days of office uh you don't
look at that as a moment of relief you don't
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look at that as a moment of um of respite and
i feel like there's a little bit of a missed
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point of view in terms of how we're all covering
it and talking about it it certainly feels good to take the tension down and take take
a deep breath and have leadership not be
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putting the tension out there but there's
a lot of anger and disappointment still festering out there and i think we need to
be very cognizant of why and what we can do
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and it would have been nice to see biden not just
say let's unite but actually step over the line and declare some of the policies and points of
view of the other side as being valid and and
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engaging more directly on those points versus
saying we'll all work together in the future
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and we're already seeing and we're already
seeing this rift with mcconnell and others in terms of how to deal with the filibuster in a
unified senate um and i i just don't think that
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we're there so um yeah yeah sax what are you what
are your thoughts and then we'll go to youtube yeah i mean look i'm not gonna swoon over an
octogenarian reading cliches off a teleprompter
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i'm sorry i just can't do it now that that
being said uh you know the the the inauguration speech struck all the right notes of you know
reconciliation lowering the temperature coming
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together these are the things you're supposed to
say at an inauguration these are the presidential layups if you will it's kind of a weird thing
that trump could never quite get these layups
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in uh biden did what he was supposed to do and
um and i agree that there is a sense of relief
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in the temperature being lowered and uh and
this and the the situation washington feeling
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a bit depressurized and so i think he deserves
credit for that that's all for the good i think
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the problem biden's going to have is not just
sort of um the trump right opposing him but the
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uncivil warriors in his own party you
know uncivil warriors i think was the most memorable line in his speech there are people
i think you know on the left who aren't really
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on board with the reconciliation agenda i mean
shortly after the election you had aoc proposing
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a truth and reconciliation commission right
uh to go after everyone from the the trump era i don't think that's exactly the kind of
reconciliation binds talking about you have i
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think the repressive hand of big tech playing into
this revenge agenda by acting as a speech cartel
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and now we have the rest of the tech stack jumping
on board with the the speech cartel you had
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an announcement from a whole bunch of finance
companies paypal stripe square that said they
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would uh cancel the accounts and by implication
livelihoods of anyone connected to january 6. well
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what exactly does that mean i mean there were many
thousands of people at this rally on the mall only
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a few percent of them breached the capital an
even smaller percentage engaged in violence but everybody who was at the mall and really everyone
in the maga movement is quote unquote connected to
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to that protest so how many degrees of kevin bacon
are we going to play in acting out these reprisals
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and i think the worst part of all is that now we
have in congress a bill put forward by adam schiff
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that basically would create a domestic patriot act
to uh to create giant new surveillance powers for
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the state to go after people they they deem to be
traitors and seditionists and domestic terrorists
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and you know i actually tweeted a letter by
rashida toleb of the squad opposing this it's
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the first time i've stood with the squad i was
proud to because the last thing the state needs right now is is more surveillance powers and
this idea that we're fighting a war against
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fellow americans based on basically political
dissent that's not going to create reconciliation
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that's going to lead to the next step in this
um horrible tit-for-tat game just to build on
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this for a second um there was a rasmussen
poll that came out today today is friday january 22nd so two days after the inauguration
and biden's disapproval rating is 45
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and you know all of a sudden
you can think again as you said three days ago you know a lot of people were on
the losing side and are now on the winning side
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and today um a lot of people that were on
the winning side are quote unquote on the
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losing side and you see how reflexive
the reaction is it's like an auto hate right it's like auto disapproval and so if
that's the case it just it just begs the question
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how much room and how much tolerance will we have
as a society if we start to go after folks that is
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you know that effectively have an
enormous amount of political dissent are there fringes of both parties that need to
get basically found out exposed and put in jail
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whether they're antifa on the left or you know
the far right extremists on the right absolutely
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but hopefully the fbi already has enough power to
do that and that's already their remit and what
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we're not gonna have to do is pass an enormous
number of laws i mean i've said this before like the patriot act was so crazy because it was a
foreign actor and a foreign event on domestic
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soil that created it but you know between the
pandemic and now it happened in the capital a biological patriot act a domestic patriot
act these are all in the offing and i think
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what we're going to have to do is again it
sounds cheesy but find the common ground so
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that we can expose who are at the fringes of
both parties who are the real crazy people round those folks up and deal with
them with the laws that we have today
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because otherwise the unintended consequences for
the overwhelming majority of the americans who are
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just normal folks is going to be a little scary i
thought a really interesting reconciliation moment
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happened with the woman who stole nancy
pelosi's laptop i don't know if you guys were
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have read that story but this woman who stole
the laptop and was considering selling it to
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the russians or something she's 22 years old
she's obviously was misguided in doing this
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and the judge basically explained to her
that she was releasing her to her mother's
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you know care and that her mother would go to jail
if you know she did anything further um but she
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said listen you know you're a beneficiary of the
constitution you are getting a speedy trial you
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are getting representation and she used it almost
as a civics lesson and i think we had a discussion
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maybe two episodes when the pod got a little
hot um which was great for ratings by the way
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and for our relationships and it resulted
in a reconciliation dinner that we had a little a little uh wives dinner our
wives brought us together for dinner to
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just make sure everything was on the well
chamoth brought us together for dinner
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uh um i mean it was it was a good thing because frankly jason i was starting to
hate you just just a little bit
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uh but but i could feel the hate you know and uh
chamoth uh being uh empathetic as he is recognized
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the situation and uh so we've decided to do
you know at least a quarterly besties dinner
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to make sure that uh yeah that the contentiousness
does not get out of hand and interfere with our
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friendships which are more important than our
politics ultimately that's what we all hope
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is comes out of this podcast which is a deeper
understanding of reconciliation of of issues that
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we disagree on and breaking bread having a meal
or having a civil conversation even if it gets
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a little heated keeping it civil is important i
thought that this is the way to handle it a lot
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of these we're going to be able to use some amount
of judgment on the people who storm the capital and say okay this person's misguided they took
a selfie this person broke windows and then this
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person you know through a fire extinguisher a cop
and we have to make sure that the justice system
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is deployed in in a fair way and more surveillance
and and more investigations i don't think that's
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the solution i think more surveillance more
investigations absolutely because i think the fbi
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has the power today to do that and i think they
should they like i said they should find every
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single person involved find the appropriate crime
make sure that they're punished but the idea of
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passing broad sweeping surveillance powers over
every american citizen is [ __ ] nuts bonkers and
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by the way all that's all that's going to do is
create these honey pots for foreign governments to want to attack anyways because if that capability
exists it exists in code on servers somewhere and
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folks in china and other places will want to find
out where that is and they will be attacking it all day long and so the last thing we need
is we're already leaking enough information
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uh about ourselves online willingly and
unwittingly um i don't want there to be a
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honeypot that's the first thing the second thing
i just want to say is i thought it was incredible um what mitch mcconnell did just back to your
comment jason about making sure folks get the
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right adjudication i think mitch mcconnell set
the stage to have donald trump impeached and the reason i think that is this was the first
time he was completely unequivocal which is
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that donald trump provoked all these folks and
i think what it allows the republican party to
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do is to get together under closed doors you
know behind closed doors circle the wagons and
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say it's either him or us we choose right now and
i think what's going to happen if i had to guess
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is that that allows a lot of people to break ranks
and support the impeachment in the senate that's
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going to start on monday and i think there's
a real chance now that that this impeachment goes through and he gets convicted i think it's
worth just thinking about the implications of that
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um if you did that there are there are trump
loyalists there aren't really gop loyalists
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um and uh i guess there are gop loyalists but
there are a lot of trump loyalists that are not loyal to the gop at this point and sax you
know correct me if i'm wrong but if trump does
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actually create a fringe party does create a a
patriot party as he suggested he might um you
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could see up to 20 million americans joining that
party and you know that would reduce the ranks of
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the republican party significantly and then kind
of my understanding is in political theory what would result is you always have a balance in the
parties and so the parties kind of adjust left or
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right to create that balance ultimately it's
just kind of the organic way this this works in order for the republican party to gain um it
you would probably see a lot of membership move
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over the republican party which means that the
democratic party is going to move further left and
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um you know think about the implications of that
if trump does actually if they do actually kick trump out of the party and he does set up a french
party you will likely see the democrats move
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further left creating a much more um kind of
conflicting story for some of the centrists
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than what they're telling today of what's going to
happen in the future and that's a very different america in the next two to three years that could
be created if they took that risk and i think
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they have to associate that calculus when they're
making this decision you know you can talk about
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justice and wanting to kick him out of the party
but the implications of him leaving the party are rather profound oh it would fracture the
republican party it would be i guess the best
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historical analog would be when teddy roosevelt
left the the party uh to form the bull moose
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party he actually fractured the republican party
and that allowed um i think woodrow wilson to win the presidency uh beating taft um yeah i mean the
republicans would basically lose every election um
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from now until trump is no longer you know a force
in american politics if he created i guess the
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or they'd have to they'd have to move left
right i mean in order for them to gain you know more people they'd have to get the
centrist democrats they'd have to move left and
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that'll give the democrats the ability to move
left yeah i mean it it's it's a it would be a dream scenario for for the democrat party um i'm
surprised i'd be surprised at the end of the day
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if if if enough republicans went along with
this to to fracture the party but um look i
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i understand that on some basis you know trump
trump caused what what happened at the capitol
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he convened everybody he rabble roused but i think
that um frankly if you have a trial i think the
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question we have to ask is like what agendas does
this serve does this serve a reconciliation agenda
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or does this serve a revenge agenda i mean
the guy's already out of office i thought we cancelled the trump reality show and this is like
bringing it back for another season because this
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trial is going to be a [ __ ] show just like all
things trump you have a trial in the senate and it's going to turn into a total farce okay and you
know look i think cosmically trump was reckless he
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was responsible but when you actually look at the
legal definition of incitement it's actually very
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hard to prove incitement so now trump's going to
get his lawyers up there and they're going to be pushing back on this and it's going to consume the
country for months and i just think we should be
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moving forward right now the government's already
going to be first three days and done all right why would it take months i'm curious you're
just saying you overhang from it they're going
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to start at mid-february right it's not going to
be three days this goes on until the trial's over
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i mean it's it'll be at least a week of of uh
discussion right sex so saks is it do you think
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the gop preventing trump from being able to run
again is worth the year the week of animosity
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let's call it i i don't i think we should just
move on as a country um and i you know at the end
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of the day i think that's what's good for biden's
agenda i mean this will become very consuming what's good for the gop though if you're if as a
person who would align themselves with republicans
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mainly i would say what do you think is best for
your party the party you're part of just moving
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on just moving forward what if trump comes back
and gets the nomination in 2024 i mean i think
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that is definitely a risk you you take um but
i think that that risk um i you know i'll leave
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it to the voters to decide what what makes sense
um interesting i i think that the only salvation
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for the republicans is to repudiate trump and
and i actually agree with um with uh friedberg
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i think that this creates the opportunity for this
i think trump wants to call it the patriot party
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to be sort of center right i think democrats
probably ebb over time you know center left
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and then the republicans actually are this
interesting power broker because they can actually tack to the middle and be centrist you
know about a social safety net combined with
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you know small government if you could somehow
tiptoe and and and balance on that line i think
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that is the winning strategy that people want but
i think that's that's my point is the republican party is going to have to move left in order
to create balance between the two parties again
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because they're going to lose 20 million voters
to the patriot party and that's the profound shift
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that's going to happen and when the republican
party moves left the democrats are going to move further left and so maybe i don't think that
moving that far left is a really winning strategy
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for no but i think i think friedrich is right so
as an example i i think i can say this but like i i had a call this week with um the mayor of miami
francis suarez what an unbelievably impressive guy
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holy [ __ ] [ __ ] this guy is amazing um what
he's done in miami is incredible um i mean the
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gdp growth is like chinese gdp growth ten percent
eight percent six and a half percent he's running
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fiscal surpluses you know crime is down down
down he's done an incredible job this guy is
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a fundamental centrist you know and when you talk
about what his beliefs are i was like what is this
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guy is he a democrat is he republican i was like
he's like honestly i'm a centrist you know and and
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so my point is if whoever tacks to the middle
we'll find the ability to attract incredible
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leaders that i think are are our next generation
set of leadership so in that way trump as a change
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agent uh sax was a success in that he broke
the system and this was peter thiel's kind of
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concept when he put him in and i know you
don't speak for peter but peter's idea was hey this person's a change agent he's gonna
be this you know drain the swamp person maybe that
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didn't happen but he has basically made everybody
reconsider what party they want to be part of and
00:22:03
what they actually want on the political agenda
and now we're so we've never been more focused on
00:22:08
politics and how our country runs in our lifetime
have we well trump you're right that trump was a
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classic disrupter you know keith rabboy has
this line about founders that uh disruption
00:22:21
is created by disruptive people and trump was you
know one of those very disruptive people i mean
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it just to take two examples i mean he created
a total realignment on our views around china i think it's now a bipartisan consensus that
you know we should not keep feeding china
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uh and making you know keep feeding that
the chinese tiger and turning into a dragon um everyone seems to think now that that some
reappraisal is warranted and the other the other
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big issue was the forever wars of the middle east
you know i think trump first created a realignment
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within the republican party when he said no more
bushes he met no more of these stupid foreign wars
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and i think that was an important realignment
um so yeah i mean he's been a very disruptive figure i think that um everyone's breathing a sigh
of relief because we've moved on i think that he
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unnecessarily was incendiary and
sort of pressurized the situation but i think the best thing at this point is to
move forward and not keep rehashing the trump era
00:23:20
speaking of rehashing um i don't know
if you guys know about what is happening with facebook but they have an oversight
board they created last year in the spring
00:23:32
and the oversight board is not to do
the day-to-day policing of facebook and instagram and whatsapp activity but it is
to be a place where people who have been have
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had content removed or have had their account
suspended to appeal they have taken the trump
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case as it were and given it to their
supreme court which is the oversight board
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and the oversight board is uh going to make a
judgment based on should trump get his social
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media accounts back they have complete autonomy
from facebook they are funded by facebook with 120
00:24:09
or 130 million over the next six years so they're
getting like 20 million dollars a year to run this they've got a really amazing bench of
intellectuals public intellectuals and
00:24:19
and they're sort of above facebook
in this regard what do we think uh should happen to trump's social media
accounts should he have a path to reclaiming them
00:24:30
and would this uh board that exists as this of
budsman as i talked about in the last episode
00:24:35
what do we think of this process
and do we think maybe twitter and youtube should join this oversight board let's
separate these two things and actually jason you
00:24:44
just framed it perfectly let's separate the two
issues one is is any of us comfortable with a
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random set of people that some people will like
and other people not like making these decisions on our behalf that are not necessarily trained
to make these decisions i mean these aren't
00:24:58
elected trained judges or lawyers that sit for a
bar exam these are just you know private citizens
00:25:04
ultimately at the end of the day um i think that
if you allow this to happen at scale there's
00:25:10
going to be a bunch of decisions that you'll be
okay with and support i think a lot of people probably are cheering when trump got blocked but
if you can abstract it away and think about all
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the people that you actually care about what if
the administration was on the other side and now all of a sudden you know these people to curry
favor with the administration went in a different
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direction and people that you cared about got
blocked it is an untenable situation and i think this is the slippery slope that the framers never
intended i don't think it should be people like
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this making any decision like this and in many
ways it's a it's a fig leaf for these companies
00:25:43
to pretend they're doing the right thing while
they're really shirking the real responsibility friedberg you agree it's hard to say on the
specifics so i think we should just take a
00:25:53
broader point of view on this which is how
do tech companies um create independence in
00:25:59
the platforms that they're building so that
they don't get scrutinized as monopolists and so there are several examples of this being
done both successfully and not successfully
00:26:08
across the tech ecosystem google made
android open source and by making the android operating system open source they were
able to have their own forked versions that they were able to install on phones with
partners like htc and samsung and others
00:26:24
that they could then have their search engine be
the primary search engine so the entire android operating system is available for anyone to work
on for anyone to fork for anyone to use and then
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google's iteration of that open source platform
and google's contributions which they were making regularly allowed them to kind of have a
great commercial outcome without being the
00:26:44
owner of the operating system having learned
from the mistakes of microsoft in the past facebook tried to take a similar approach with
libra and it was a total [ __ ] show and a
00:26:52
disaster and i don't know where it is today but
they tried to create this also independent board
00:26:57
um to provide oversight uh and to you know to kind
of do the you know all the open source work on the
00:27:04
libra currency and facebook was going to then use
that on their platform as their kind of you know
00:27:10
token uh cryptocurrency solution um and obviously
there was so much scrutiny because no one believed
00:27:17
the independence and i think we're hearing the
same thing now about the facebook oversight board jack dorsey is now taking the same approach
with blue sky which is meant to be this um
00:27:25
open sourced um you know independently managed um
social media protocol system and so twitter would
00:27:35
effectively become an application layer on top of
this open sourced approach to how do you decide
00:27:41
what goes on social media how do you decide
what's inappropriate and appropriate and what technology protocols are available for everyone
to use and what business and and um arbitration
00:27:50
protocols are available for everyone to use in
an open source way and we'll see where jack goes with blue sky he seems to be doing a better
job messaging and organizing teams of people
00:28:00
to work on this and i don't see the pushback that
facebook is getting with their oversight board so
00:28:05
unfortunately a lot of these the big tech
platforms in order to avoid the monopolistic
00:28:10
allegations and the allegations of control and
influence uh they're creating independence uh
00:28:16
independent systems and that's hit or miss and i
don't think we yet know i think in the next year or two we'll see how blue sky libra the facebook
oversight board and some of these other platforms
00:28:25
what would you do david platforming what would you
do let me just put it to you if you were in charge you were the ceo of facebook or twitter would
you have a path to reinstating trump yes or no
00:28:37
yeah let me just get freebergs would you yes or
no reinstate trump oh yeah 100 we should have a
00:28:42
path to it i i think be like i've said in the
past having some objective i think that number one i don't think it was inappropriate for them to
kick him off the platform from a legal perspective
00:28:50
i don't sacks and i might disagree but we can
probably argue for an hour but i think from a freedom of speech point of view they're private
companies with private accounts and they did what
00:28:57
they wanted to do was it the right thing to do
um i don't think that was the right thing so yeah give him a path to getting his account back free
and so i think you need to create an objective
00:29:05
system and you need to give everyone whether
it's trump or whoever else everyone has to have the same set of standards that they're held
to and then a universal approach that anyone
00:29:14
can appeal and okay but that's the approach but
knowing what trump did on january 6 would you let
00:29:19
him back on your platform if you were ceo is the
question i'm trying to get out of your freebird but okay david you go yeah i mean so so here's the
fundamental problem is that the town square is now
00:29:30
owned by facebook and twitter the town square
got privatized and our speech rights are now in
00:29:36
the hands of mark zuckerberg and jack dorsey
as a practical matter i mean you do not have speech rights in the modern world if you get
d platform by big tech and until now there's
00:29:45
been no way to appeal their decisions we have
had no transparency into their decisions so i think facebook creating this appeals board is a
step in the right direction but you know they're
00:29:55
calling it their supreme court but i'll tell you
my supreme court is the supreme court you know at the end of the day we all know that the most
important part of a trial is jury selection and
00:30:04
zuckerberg is still picking these 20 people and
you know actually just in case in point he picked
00:30:10
the top he picked the four and the four pick the
next 16 and then they don't have an ongoing um
00:30:17
ability to pick the next ones and they have some
amount of terms so just to give you that okay well fair enough and like i said look i don't
want to criticize this move on its own because
00:30:26
it is a step in the right direction we need an
appeals process when people get cancelled okay
00:30:32
um that part is good but but what i would like to
see like i said my supreme court is the supreme court and they've spoken to this issue and i would
like to see these social networking monopolies
00:30:41
apply a first amendment standard a speech policy
broadly consistent with the first amendment
00:30:46
and sometimes that will mean allowing speech
we don't like but it will result in a greater
00:30:52
level of speech protection for all of us well
it wouldn't just reach back on the platform no but hold on a sec if you're gonna go by that
standard the problem is with this oversight
00:31:00
board concept is that it completely violates
exactly what the supreme court is meant to be which is a country-by-country set of governance
and standards and laws like i'm just looking at
00:31:10
the oversight board people right now these people
look incredibly well credentialed emmy palmer of
00:31:16
israel catalina botero moreno of colombia nigat
dad from pakistan helle thorning schmidt from
00:31:22
denmark catherine chen from taiwan jamal green
from the united states alan rusbridger from uk
00:31:28
andreas sagio from hungary and it goes on
and on how are we supposed to adjudicate
00:31:35
a set of standards at a national level like when
when we have the are all these people from all
00:31:41
these different countries supposed to opine on
u.s constitutional right of free speech and have it the idea would be they would use some global
standards but then also take into consideration
00:31:49
local standards that's what they their stated
purpose is and why they're so diverse the setup for that though jason is that then you know when
when there's a you know the hindu nationalist bjp
00:31:59
party has a specific point of view and so when
modi wants to get elected there's going to be specific kinds of free speech laws there you
know poland's going to have a different point
00:32:07
of view and they're not going to respect what's
happening in the oversight board case in point
00:32:13
australia passed a potential law or is considering
passing a law which is basically around if you
00:32:18
know treating facebook and google uh as quasi
publishers and that you know they're i think
00:32:23
that they have to pay some kind of royalty now for
articles that are shared or published or whatever and google said i'm out and then facebook said i'm
out too um and so what does that mean for you know
00:32:36
200 million people you're out what does that mean
you're out you can make money when the getting's good and all of a sudden you build this public
infrastructure when the country's rules change i
00:32:46
i actually respect that more than trying to create
some of this broad holistic governance committee
00:32:51
because i think it's a [ __ ] show you can't
cherry pick which laws you want to observe and respect and and then which laws you don't you know
i i think trimath makes an excellent point about
00:33:01
how difficult this is going to be to implement let
me propose an alternative that actually comes from
00:33:06
a former law professor of mine at the university
of chicago richard epstein he made the point that
00:33:13
he wants to apply common carrier regulation at
least in the u.s to these monopolies and the
00:33:18
example he gives is that the railroad monopolies
could not deny you service based on your political
00:33:24
views and you know this is this is a um this is
a real issue imagine you know going back in time
00:33:30
you know we had the lincoln douglas debates
for example the way that lincoln and douglas went around the country was by train imagine
if some railroad magnate some oligarch said mr
00:33:40
lincoln i don't like your views i'm not going
to give you passage on my railroad monopoly
00:33:46
the common carrier rules would have prevented them
from doing that and what epstein suggests we do is
00:33:52
a if you're a essentially a um a monopoly a speech
monopoly in the in the us one of these platforms
00:33:59
that has uh you know gigantic network effects
you have to apply the common carrier uh rules
00:34:05
it's an interesting concept i think let's move
on to um the economy uh and it'd be interesting
00:34:11
we'll monitor obviously what the this oversight
board does we're going to monitor uh what's going to happen with this uh january 6 uh sorry jason
the last thing on this is you could you can tell
00:34:22
if you if you graphed and i'm sure somebody uh
listening to all in can graph and tweet this but
00:34:29
if you graphed the price to earnings ratio of big
tech as all of these issues have come out like
00:34:39
you know if you looked at a time series of their
pe um and you put on their you know things like
00:34:45
george floyd things like the capital riots you
know all of these things that have created these
00:34:50
um flash points issues around free speech
flashpoints the the massacre in new zealand
00:34:56
and christchurch that was live streamed on
facebook all this stuff what you'll see is at least capitalism is voting that these companies
will not be allowed to be companies much longer
00:35:08
so the smart money is betting that they're going
to be regulated and something's going to change it's going to be a quasi governmental
organization exactly that the level of
00:35:14
regulation at a government but government level
um is going to be so onerous as to make these companies quasi nonprofits that work on behalf
of countries they're going to become utilities
00:35:24
right they're getting they're going to get
regulated like utilities at some point or they're going to have to adopt some governance
like we've talked about or other options will
00:35:34
emerge and i think what jack is doing with
the is it blue sky is what they're calling it blue sky yeah yeah what they're really doing
with blue sky is saying your profile and your
00:35:44
data is going to be stored on some blockchain or
some decentralized system like bitcoin or like
00:35:51
any other peer-to-peer service which means it's
not on their server twitter just pulls all that
00:35:56
data together so we would all have our own
domain names and calicanus.com or saks.com
00:36:04
profile dot whatever the html equivalent is let's
just call it dot social you know your sacs.social
00:36:13
url would be your profile on facebook twitter
and everywhere else and when you post it to it it
00:36:18
would post to facebook and twitter therefore they
could say we don't actually host this stuff we're just pulling it together which then destroys their
business model champ's point what do we think
00:36:28
as a little aside is going to
happen with the tick tock case now that trump is out of office and biden
is in office we sort of alluded to china
00:36:36
sacks being a super important thing that we
all have consensus on now what should happen
00:36:42
with tick tock and do you think biden will
go after tick tock and say hey we got to get this out of here because it's you know essentially
spyware and jack ma was just resurfaced and let's
00:36:52
just talk about china for a second yeah i think
the sad reality is that the whole tick tock thing is going to get swept under the rug um i think
there'll be no restrictions on tick tock i think
00:37:02
what we need the issue with like with uh banning
tick tock though is that it's just one place where
00:37:09
china can collect data on all of us i mean the
reality is there's thousands of places and so
00:37:14
you know i do think that taking some action on
tick tock is warranted but it would it it is a little bit of selective enforcement but what i
would like to see is some guarantee some assurance
00:37:26
that um that tick tock is not is collecting data
in the way they're saying they're collecting it and that there's not um sort of spyware uh
within the app and i don't think we know for sure
00:37:38
whether there's spyware or not i'll say it i'll
say it slightly differently i've maintained this for a while but it is inconceivable
that inside of big tech in every single
00:37:47
company that you define big tech is
not at least one spy from russia china india israel pakistan saudi arabia did i tell
you guys i had a spy working for me a climate no
00:38:05
you got arrested did i tell you guys about this
no tell us the story it's public so i'll share it we had a data scientist um named hightower
great guy uh worked on our remote sensing team
00:38:16
and worked on our nitrogen model which predicted
nitrogen content in soil and was very deep in the
00:38:22
in the in the code base and everything and shortly
after i had left i found out this so climate just
00:38:29
for the audience my company i started and ran was
acquired by monsanto in 2013 which is a big seed company a lot of people know it for other things
and um and so i left and i found out that the guy
00:38:41
quit went to the airport and the fbi intercepted
him at the airport and they found tucked into his
00:38:48
bag a thumb drive and he had downloaded all of
our code base for our nitrogen models and he was taking them to give them to the chinese government
and so he's in jail right now he's in prison in
00:38:57
the u.s right now but this was like the most
non-descript super nice scientist data scientist
00:39:03
guy uh you've ever met like you would have had
zero suspicion and um and it turns out this is
00:39:09
the point how many of those exist in facebook and
by the way it was so easy for him to get access to
00:39:14
our code base and he pulled all the stuff down and
he had the whole model and you know there's a lot of uh articles about what happened in our case um
but you're right it's happening all over the place
00:39:24
and um and i don't think that we fully appreciate
like how much of america's ip is stored in
00:39:30
software uh and data and how accessible that is to
employees inside of these organizations and that
00:39:35
the security is not adequate uh to protect that
data and that ip and then the crazy thing is like
00:39:41
you know when just to connect the two dots here
on this jack muffin like when you saw that video where like you know basically he was
forced to you know um show field team okay
00:39:52
i'm okay and you know this is all
about the chinese party held captive my gosh like i mean these are
all quasi-governmental companies alibaba exists uh because of the largesse of the
communist party in xi jinping if that wasn't clear
00:40:08
after last week i mean and so to your point
like you know if any company gets a hold of
00:40:13
of us user data or otherwise it's effectively the
chinese government getting a hold of that data
00:40:18
yeah we don't need proof david when jack
ma disappears and then comes back and looks he looked nervous on that video i'm no expert
but he did not look like he was the jack ma
00:40:29
who was giving speeches and inspiring people and
i don't know what this does to entrepreneurship
00:40:34
in china but i mean who in china is going
to start a company now and want to be
00:40:39
the next jack ma or jeff bezos no i think i think
jason it's even simpler what happens it makes it
00:40:45
makes entrepreneurship even simpler meaning for
those entrepreneurs that thought that there was a balance between financial imperative and moral
imperative there's no balance you can flush
00:40:54
the moral imperative down the [ __ ] toilet
they china will allow you to get super rich
00:41:00
and super successful as long as you super toe the
line and that's the message right it's like what
00:41:06
uh putin did with uh kordakovsky in russia it's
like he basically told all the oligarchs you work
00:41:12
for us now and uh and it worked that's basically
that it worked that's basically the message
00:41:19
uh from the ccp to jack ma and to every other
entrepreneur in china is you work for us now and by the way civil military fusion was part was
was a policy expressly announced by president xi
00:41:31
you know one other data point on this i
think is really interesting is that biden just announced that he was keeping on christopher
wray as the head of the fbi um christopher wray
00:41:41
gave a speech back in july at the hudson institute
about um the counter espionage efforts uh that the
00:41:49
fbi has engaged in and he was saying that the
fbi has more cases now related to uh to chinese
00:41:57
uh counterintelligence he said that the fbi is
opening a new china related counterintelligence
00:42:02
case every ten hours and two days and two
a day and of the of the nearly 5 000 active
00:42:09
fbi counterintelligence cases currently underway
across the country almost half are related to
00:42:14
china so this is directly from a speech he gave
in july so i think it's really interesting now at
00:42:19
the time that he gave the speech you know a lot
of people were saying well this is just trump's more of trump's china baiting but i think that by
biden keeping on chris christopher wray there's
00:42:30
a continuity of policy there and i think you know
focusing on tick tock is probably the wrong thing
00:42:35
we need a more comprehensive policy to deal with
counterintelligence well it's a good start though
00:42:40
to say if you hit scale we're not going to let
you operate here and we want reciprocity adding to this uh outgoing secretary of pompeo and is
the day before the inauguration uh tweeted i have
00:42:52
determined that the people's republic of china is
committing genocide and crimes against humanity
00:42:58
in china targeting the uyghurs muslims and members
of other ethnic and religious minority groups
00:43:05
that's quite a bomb to leave the
day before and i think this signals we are going to keep resetting this relationship
and what an incredible opportunity for us to
00:43:13
bring factories back here bring as we've talked
about here manufacturing back correct freeburg
00:43:18
that's what i think oh let's keep going
let's kick it off we got we got three three million factories in china i think we've
got less than a hundred thousand in america
00:43:28
let's go and it will be so glorious it will be so
[ __ ] glorious i mean think about this right look
00:43:33
think about the amount of money like at the end
of the day what is a government's purpose is it to run a profit no you know that's our job right
is it to run at break even i would actually say no
00:43:45
i think it's to basically promote the prosperity
of current and future generations of its citizens
00:43:51
and so you should be investing so if this is the
you should be an investment so if we're going to be printing you know trillions of dollars and
you know we should talk about the stimulus bill
00:43:59
because biden's going to rip in another 2 trillion
which i think is the perfect segue and by the way and then after that there's going to be this it's
amazing infrastructure bill put the money to work
00:44:09
let's reclaim a bunch of this capability
on shore and let's re-build america okay
00:44:16
uh freeburg you looked at the um 1.2 trillion
dollar stimulus package that biden is
00:44:22
proposing how much of that goes towards rebuilding
factories in america well none so so remember
00:44:29
yeah but it's 1.9 billion yeah it's 1.9 trillion
1.9 trillion yeah absolutely and so just to put
00:44:36
that in context you know wall street has
talked about there were going to be four um four massive stimulus bills you know since
last april may i think they've talked about this
00:44:44
and we're seeing this come to to fruition now and
jamal correct me if you've heard differently but there's always been the expectation we would have
the big first stimulus which we had last march
00:44:53
then a second stimulus people have been waiting
for the state stimulus or the local government stimulus which this one now it captures and
then the fourth program was always going to
00:45:02
be infrastructure and we haven't seen details
of the proposed biden infrastructure plan yet
00:45:07
but i'm pretty sure it's going to have a
lot of green energy uh stuff tied up in it but let's just let's just hit the numbers
right so in 2009 post financial crisis to
00:45:18
keep the global economy from collapsing
um congress passed an 800 billion dollar
00:45:25
aid package 800 billion was extraordinary at
the time and we had never seen anything like it
00:45:31
tarp and um last march if you'll recall we passed
this emergency two trillion dollar package you
00:45:38
know more than 2x what we had during the financial
crisis and now just in december right before the year wrapped up congress passed another 900
billion dollar package and now we're talking about
00:45:47
this 1.9 trillion dollar package getting passed
so we've eclipsed anything you could have ever con
00:45:53
considered possible um in terms of fiscal stimulus
at this point the m1 money supply which i sent the
00:45:59
link out ahead of this for has gone up by 75 uh
in just the past year and now if we break down
00:46:07
the 1.9 trillion dollar stimulus bill um you
know a huge chunk of it and this is what wall
00:46:12
street's been waiting for is 350 billion dollars
is going to state and local governments so think
00:46:18
about san francisco or the state of california
um the city of chicago the city of new york
00:46:24
all of these folks have seen their revenue decline
and they've had to run massive emergency programs
00:46:29
where's that money coming from they haven't been
able to raise taxes they've had to put a hold on on receipts and so this is meant to bridge the gap
at the local level and this is really important
00:46:39
because so much of capital markets still very
much fund local and state governments through
00:46:46
municipal bonds and those bonds if they start to
default are going to have a dangerous rippling
00:46:51
effect in the economy so bridging the state and
local government budgets with this 350 billion
00:46:57
dollar package turned out to be um you know an
absolute need and the republicans prior to the
00:47:03
the election were pushing hard against this and
saying let those states fail they're mostly blue states let those cities fail they're mostly blue
cities they're mismanaged they're they're being
00:47:11
stupid about how they're operating so this is a
big deal there's 160 billion for covid fighting
00:47:17
some of which you know i throw up on 20 billion
dollars for vaccination which equates to about 150
00:47:22
dollars per person they expect to vaccinate which
is an extraordinarily high cost if you actually think about it on a first principles basis
it's ridiculous how inefficient they're going
00:47:30
to be at this 50 billion dollars for testing 40
billion dollars for protective gear and supplies
00:47:36
and what this indicates to me is so much of
what goes on in government government spending is skating to where the puck used to be
not skating to where the puck is going
00:47:45
and it's almost like by the time this money gets
deployed i'm not sure we're going to need as much protective gear and supplies i'm not sure we're
going to need as much testing if we can actually
00:47:53
get the vaccinations done in the next 90 to 100
days and much of the country starts to recover from this you know you've now got 150 billion
dollar program sitting out there that doesn't need
00:48:02
to be out there and it's a waste of money what we
should be doing is taking that money and investing in biomanufacturing infrastructure so we can more
quickly develop and deploy vaccines in the future
00:48:12
what would it cost to build a factory just back of
the envelope that was capable of making the next
00:48:18
you know let's call it one two billion vacancy
shots one two yeah it's it's not a lot so
00:48:24
let me i'll give you guys the unit economic
build and you can do the math at home four
00:48:29
grams per liter is the expected yield of a um of
a biomanufacturing facility and a leader is like
00:48:37
you know how many liters of water do you have in
a tank you can build half million liter facilities
00:48:43
for a couple hundred million dollars and
that's four grams per liter every seven days
00:48:48
and us vaccine or the the antibody therapies
that we've seen the antibody therapies are
00:48:53
about two grams and that'll save someone's life
uh the the vaccines are a fraction of a gram
00:48:59
and so you can start to kind of do the
math on how just a few billion dollars invested in building some of these
biomanufacturing facilities that are
00:49:06
modular and can be very quickly reprogrammed
to make a new molecule can be used to support
00:49:12
the future vaccine supply chain and the future
anti-antibody therapeutic supply chain which is
00:49:18
critically needed in this country and if i were
to take 160 billion dollars for covet fighting give me 10 of that and we'll be ready for any
virus in the future and we'll be able to print
00:49:28
out vaccines for the whole country within 30
days um and so a little bit again of this is not really forward thinking it's scientists and
doctors saying what they need what they're talking
00:49:36
about is last year's need they're not thinking in
terms of what the industrial supply chain needs are going to be in the future on an ongoing basis
for this country at this point i'm not seeing it
00:49:44
and so i feel a little bit let down by that and
i hope that the infrastructure programs that are going to be proposed in the next in the next
bill will start to encompass some of that work
00:49:53
paradoxically it's going to cost a trillion
dollars to upgrade our nuclear weapons so we're
00:49:59
literally going to spend a trillion dollars over
the next decade open upgrading our nuclear weapon
00:50:05
is that is that true that's nutty that's what i
i'm reading a headline right here um here's my
00:50:10
here's my little wish list for this infrastructure
build i think um when you look at some of the
00:50:16
most compelling work that's happened in the
developing world so like if you're going to go and you know build a massive water facility or
an energy installation um a lot of people are
00:50:28
worried hey listen i have to deal with you know
local currency risk i have to deal with you know
00:50:34
corruption i could have the government you know
take away this facility from me without notice the rule of law may not be strong and the world bank
has this mechanism where you can basically go and
00:50:44
ensure you know for i think it's like one or two
percent of your project costs the whole project and it really makes things work i would love to
see the us government effectively create a program
00:50:56
that is similar but different in the following way
there are some enormous things america needs to do
00:51:02
where the ip exists with our allies and there
is an enormous fear what would happen if that
00:51:12
ip leaked specifically to china one example is
if you believe and you care about climate change
00:51:20
and the making of batteries um there's an
enormous amount of ip that sits with the japanese
00:51:25
um that you know if we could license and work
with as a country we could build factories all
00:51:31
over the country and we would be the leader in
climate but that'll take the us government to
00:51:36
basically work bilaterally with the japanese
government to basically say listen if it takes the nsa to [ __ ] protect this [ __ ] we will
do it um but you can run them they we could
00:51:47
just give them their sovereignty and those facts
you know these are these are these are for-profit companies that are you know relatively risk-averse
they're not going to rip in 10 million bucks to
00:51:54
10 billion dollars to build you know a cathode
plant in the u.s i would other people would um
00:52:00
but that's my hope in the infrastructure bill is
that we take some of these things that have worked in the developing world and we use it to grease
the skids in how we rebuild america it would be
00:52:10
[ __ ] glorious and also just think about how much
a nuclear power plant costs it's like six to nine billion dollars to build a nuclear power plant and
we haven't built many new ones and we're on the
00:52:20
way there but if part of this trillion dollars we
could build 10 more of those energy independence would uh continue in global warming would go down
uh anything to add there dave it looks like you
00:52:29
want to come well i just did just one final word
you know the um the the the great senate leader
00:52:37
uh everett dirksen famously said that you
know billion here are a billion there pretty soon you're talking about real money and now we're
talking about a trillion here and a trillion there
00:52:46
and these are really big numbers uh and i think we
should be very concerned about debt and deficits
00:52:53
no one's really talking about this yet but all
of this money has to be paid back at some point um well what's the worst that can happen david
let's actually do that i'm i mean i'm asking
00:53:02
the question in a non-joking way what is the
worst that can happen oh i mean crisis inflation
00:53:08
inflate well not not just so inflation because the
government will eventually have to monetize the debt by printing more money the dollar stops
becoming the world's reserve currency maybe
00:53:17
bitcoin becomes the world's reserve currency
maybe something else does um it could be lead to
00:53:22
you know very severe to basically a debt crisis in
the future what would that look like for companies
00:53:28
and citizens of america well if you're middle if
you're middle class your savings get wiped out you
00:53:33
know if you so so if you're super rich the reality
is there's already been tremendous asset inflation
00:53:39
so there's already been a lot of inflation but
frankly if you are very rich and own assets in
00:53:44
the stock market you're you're sort of you're
protected you know but if you're a middle-class
00:53:49
person with most of your savings in your bank
account that money is not worth a lot less
00:53:55
or your home yeah you get destroyed by that yeah
it's really very sad so if you are in equities and
00:54:00
the market is on a rip you know paying an extra
couple of million dollars for your second home
00:54:05
is not a big deal because your equities have gone
up more than that or equal to that and if you're right somebody who get makes income we have uh a
separate issue well look this is this is a this
00:54:15
is a bigger issue but but and i think we should
talk about this at some point because this is what the grand fallacy of technology was
supposed to be like you know if you
00:54:24
if you break down capitalism into its two most
natural states you have labor and you have capital
00:54:29
right you have workers and you have owners and
the biggest problem that technology did was it
00:54:35
drove a wedge and it created an extremely small
owner class and an extremely massive labor class
00:54:41
and so the reality is that a very few very
a handful of people can can get extremely wealthy by being owners of these next generation
assets and then everybody else is essentially you
00:54:52
know rendered as labor um and so this wealth
inequality just grows and grows and compounds
00:54:57
um and so we have to figure out a way yeah how's
that different than the past because i think it's
00:55:02
got i think i think technology accelerated that
dynamic well i think jumping in on this i mean i
00:55:08
i think that technology creates bigger winner take
all outcomes and that's fed into inequality but
00:55:13
the good thing about tech or the tech ecosystem
is that frankly we have option pools right we have
00:55:18
broad-based ownership of these companies if you
go work for a google or facebook or whatever um
00:55:24
you get all these brands yeah that's what 10 000
people that's 10 000 people that's no one and
00:55:30
they're and they're replacing 2 million jobs with
10 000 people i mean this is this is why we need
00:55:36
to have a hundred percent participation in the
markets by everybody in the country joe greenblatt who i had on my podcast recently is a proponent
of this chemotherapy so you tweeting about it
00:55:45
when you're born in the united states we should
put five thousand dollars in a 401k that you can't touch until you're 65 years old that is in
whatever index funds and every person born gets
00:55:56
that 5 000 and cannot touch it and then we see
where it winds up it doesn't solve the problem
00:56:03
that a lot of people have to climb up a hill first
right they take on a lot of debt to get education to put themselves in a position to ultimately be
able to generate the income to do that and i think
00:56:12
you know sure give them 5 000 in the beginning but
it's not going to get them where they need to be but it does solve one portion of the problem which
is they don't have participation and we could take
00:56:20
out the wondering what your retirement is going to
be like i think both of you are right i think like there needs to be um something that allows people
to have a line of sight to savings like a lot a
00:56:30
lot of about being invested in in anything where
you own it whether it's real estate or whether
00:56:36
it's a piece of artwork or whether it's stocks and
bonds so many people don't even know how to begin
00:56:42
and don't understand the concept of ownership and
so they are stuck in being in the ghetto of labor
00:56:47
and i think like one of the biggest things
we can do is you can give them the taste of ownership so that they understand that
difference so that they want to be an owner
00:56:55
yeah okay number one yes and then to david's point
number two is we still have a responsibility to
00:57:01
educate people so that they can actually have
skills that they can monetize and we have a
00:57:06
responsibility to do that and right now we make it
so [ __ ] hard and we trick people because like we
00:57:13
we send them down the path of getting a 200 000
art history degree and then they end up working at a starbucks and then which is impossible to
monetize i mean it's free you can't monetize that
00:57:23
you can't by the way by the way what you're saying
is the reason i think retirement accounts were set up in the u.s was to shift away from pension
fund models where people were getting a fixed
00:57:32
income at retirement and shifting them to a model
of equity and ownership in the markets where they could participate actively on a tax-free basis
um but obviously it hasn't done enough you know
00:57:43
i think the big difference between the industrial
revolution the first and second industrial revolution and where we are with software in
the last two to three decades is the capital
00:57:53
required right it's very little capital to build
a highly valuable software business it required
00:57:58
a lot of capital to build oil infrastructure and
railroad infrastructure and factories and so to your point you get extraordinarily different
outsized returns today than you did a hundred
00:58:07
years ago as an owner versus labor the and the
bridge to try and give people ownership through
00:58:12
retirement accounts certainly hasn't been enough
so so to your point to your point david i saw this
00:58:18
study it was [ __ ] crazy i'm going to get the
exact numbers wrong but the trend is accurate
00:58:23
when um when when people used to actively manage
their 401k there was a very small participation
00:58:30
rate but the mean return was off the charts and
the amount of dollars as a function of their paycheck was off the charts call it you know 50
60 cents of every theoretical dollar you could
00:58:41
put into it the minute that we went to passive and
that you know you could sort of trickle money in
00:58:47
the number of people that participated literally
more than doubled but then the amount of that
00:58:52
max dollar went off of a cliff and so the the
problem that we've had is we haven't taught people
00:58:59
you know we've misdirected some of them to
say have a 401 k it replaces your pension
00:59:04
as if it's the solution that's still not the
solution um and we need to have ways of teaching
00:59:10
people how to actually manage it it's not that
hard and the basics can be taught very simply
00:59:15
but right now we are massively exacerbating this
wealth gap the way that we behave and that all of
00:59:21
this money that's going to go in this 1.9 trillion
whatever how many trillion comes afterwards is frankly for the few that are smart enough to
take advantage of it will be amazing but it'll
00:59:30
still push the overwhelming majority of americans
who are stuck in labor deeper and deeper into that
00:59:37
ghetto and they'll never get up it is definitely
every little bit helps right like if you have the
00:59:42
401k that helps and then you know educate people
and i think if we gave everybody an isa at birth
00:59:48
or an i you know an income sharing agreement for
these 20 professions and the government provided why jason why is it that you know for example
if to invest in a startup you either have to
00:59:59
have more than five million dollars or more than
you know a million 200k a year it's not more than they're going to change it and so if you're if
you're a product manager that's like really really
01:00:07
talented or if you're like you know somebody else
who's just got a you know a phd in nuclear biology
01:00:13
and frankly is you know is decided to teach for
sixty thousand and you can't participate even though you have the intellect to judge like
we're just like kind of like compounding it's
01:00:23
even worse than that the person who's changing the
accreditation laws at the sec and working on this
01:00:28
said i cannot i'm writing the accreditation laws
and because i make 150k a year or whatever it is
01:00:34
under 200k i can't participate and i'm the one
responsible for the law that person must be one
01:00:40
of the most sophisticated people in the world it
literally is the most sophisticated person in the world when it comes to accreditation and that's
why we need to move to sophisticated investor
01:00:48
not accredited and just some test and if you
did that every single uber driver lyft driver
01:00:55
post mates driver airbnb host uh or a person who
used the cash app or paypal would have said i can
01:01:01
as one of the first users i have access to buy
shares i'm just going to say this i'll buy them this problem has to get fixed because i think in
the next 10 i think in the next 10 and 20 years
01:01:11
the united states is going to [ __ ] re-emerge
like a phoenix and the reason the reason is going
01:01:17
to be because of innovation around climate change
and agriculture and biotechnology and technology
01:01:22
these four areas are going to recast gdp but
what that also means is that if we're going to create you know 20 or 30 trillion dollars a year
for the next 10 and 20 years 300 500 trillion
01:01:36
how the [ __ ] do we make sure that more than
18 people participate absolutely great well
01:01:44
so i agree with a lot of what you guys are
saying but i can tell you every single one of the companies that i've invested in are looking
to hire people right now they cannot hire people
01:01:52
soon enough it's their biggest challenge and it's
not just coders it's sales people it's marketing
01:01:58
people it's hr people it's every every role in
their company they have trouble trying to hire
01:02:03
the right person and and and they give options to
all those people so it's not just a small number
01:02:08
of founders getting equity uh this is basically a
new category of call it entrepreneurial labor it's
01:02:14
labor who gets ownership in the company that's
never existed before and really what this comes
01:02:19
down to is we need more people participating in
the new economy if you participate in the new economy then you get ownership and if you're in
the old economy then you really are stuck in labor
01:02:29
and so we need to do is spread the opportunity
that that technology represents to more people
01:02:36
across part of the minimum wage maybe we should
have a minimum equity participation so we have the minimum wage over here but if you're working
for an entrepreneurial enterprise why not get a
01:02:43
minimum you know participation in equity because
the free market takes care of that i mean if you
01:02:48
have the right market it hasn't taken care of it
david no it has no no the free market has i agree with david the free market has the problem isn't
that how does a person working at walmart ever
01:02:57
participated in the walmart appreciation that's
the point they will they will leave and go to a company that gives them equity and that's why
you'll see this this that's convenient to say
01:03:05
but if walmart's the only job within an hour
of their house it's not they got to have the right skills jason and so this all comes back
to education you know we gotta yeah who are in
01:03:16
rank and file jobs the 30 million truck drivers
cashiers etc have equity participation as a right
01:03:22
i think i think you're saying something different
should they absolutely should the company that
01:03:27
does that be created absolutely will they be
rewarded with all the people that want to work
01:03:32
there absolutely so now somebody should go and
start that [ __ ] company okay i just think it's
01:03:39
an interesting concept i mean we do have a minimum
wage why not have a minimum jason participation
01:03:44
you know the same woman that ran elon out of
california lorena gonzalez she's doing another
01:03:50
thing just proposed a new bill like do you want
her to basically pick the equity thresholds
01:03:57
because that's what you're saying uh well no
let's pivot let's put it to california okay let's pay over to another disaster california so
the recall is uh well uh on its way they need to
01:04:09
get 1.5 million signatures we're at 1.1 or 1.2
but we actually really need two because there's some verification process that goes on so in all
likelihood we will see gavin newsom recalled we
01:04:20
agree on that yeah i'll tell you this the stats
i heard there's about a million call it a million million one signatures they've seen about an
85 percent verification rate today uh saks
01:04:29
correct me if i'm wrong on this they're getting
they're getting about 200 000 signatures a week um they're you know the cost for marketing and
attracting people to get these signatures is
01:04:38
coming in at like three to six bucks a signature
so it's really not a lot of money's needing to be spent to get this done and um you know even
if the verification rate drops to 75 or 65
01:04:50
you're still on track at this rate to hit the
recall target by march 17th which is the deadline
01:04:56
and so it appears highly likely they're going to
get there sax am i right on all that uh yeah i
01:05:01
think they're at 1.2 million uh signatures that's
what i heard and they're trying to get they're trying to get to 2 million to have a buffer so
that you know they that you know they don't get
01:05:10
pushed under the but 1.5 is the number they need
yeah they need 1.5 million certified signatures
01:05:17
seventy percent of the way they are according
to the website recallgavin2020.com which think i think i think they will get there
i think they'll get there and then their uh
01:05:25
and then the recall election would take place
about four to five months after uh after that
01:05:30
there's a a couple of months where it moves
through the finance committee the recall election
01:05:36
has to be budgeted and then um newsome would
have the opportunity to set a date within i think
01:05:42
60 to 80 days roughly so i think we're looking
at july for a a recall election and sex how how
01:05:50
do you get um how does a candidate get on the
ballot because champ um is asking for a friend
01:05:58
wait a second i want to be on two that can should
we have all four besties be on yeah we should
01:06:10
we're probably going to have four kardashians
on there so we might have four besties on there um kardashian yeah so the uh it's it's
it's stunningly easy to be a replacement
01:06:20
candidate we should expect there'll probably be
about 150 replacement candidates on the ballot every every third tier seedless celebrity
is gonna you know like you know back to gary
01:06:31
coleman did it like you know 20 years ago all
every single celebrity that you're talking about
01:06:37
yeah to try and boost their cue rating
uh i'm sure we'll see kathy griffin on there i mean what she'd been
doing um and so it's gonna be a farce
01:06:51
can we deal with celebrities by the way can we
talk about why he's getting recalled because i
01:06:56
do get this question a lot from people in tech
and out of tech and i just want to highlight
01:07:01
some of the reasons i've heard and i'd love
to hear why you guys think he's you know why there's this push against him but from people
within the tech community i've heard that the
01:07:10
ad hoc lockdown rules have really pissed a lot
of people off in terms of when businesses are
01:07:15
allowed and not allowed to be open and kind of
the responsiveness and the guiding principles around this during covid obviously the you
know the inability to fight against the tax
01:07:23
rate but no one wants to be publicly saying that
um the failed vaccine roll out the failed testing
01:07:29
um you know saks jamal jason what what do you
guys think is the reason he's getting recalled
01:07:35
what are the top five hypocrisy is number one
i think it's the hypocrisy of going to those restaurants and then making people not go to the
beach which is crazy and then i think number two
01:07:44
is the virus we've only deployed 37 of our doses
in california and that makes us you know of the
01:07:52
major states that are putting out a lot of these
vaccines uh one of the worst performers uh second
01:07:59
yeah we're talking about florida and new york are
the other large states and they're at 56 49 and 50
01:08:06
we're still stuck at 37 california the cradle
of innovation and technology and this bum
01:08:12
he's a bum 37 percent deployed we
should be leading should be 70 percent he's a bum can i get it wait wait it's it's new
some derangement syndrome oh my god i'm just going
01:08:23
to get a viral clip i'm trying to get a bottle
of clothes you guys know you're besties jason just has a problem with anyone in authority
you know i know it's the hair it's a problem
01:08:32
it's the hair is too good french laundry the
hypocrisy and then get to work so personally
01:08:39
personality personality for you is the biggest
driver is that right jason no it's it's literally the performance of their washington dc west
virginia north dakota south dakota all 66 to
01:08:51
three percent of their vaccines employed they're
double us now it's smaller states but still we're goddamn california here's what i would say as a
list um number one we're the most heavily taxed
01:09:05
number two we are we have some of the
worst infrastructure in the country we have some of the lowest and poorest performing
schools in the country we have the highest homeless rates for veterans in the country we have
the worst preparedness for climate in the country
01:09:22
um and so it's basically just a complete bungling
at every level and so and then the fourth or the
01:09:30
then the last which is the biggest one is
we have now created an inhospitable culture
01:09:35
for innovation and the biggest problem with that
is if these climate jobs and these technology jobs
01:09:42
and these biotechnology jobs pivot to more
accepting and progressive um local and state
01:09:51
managements like austin texas and miami
florida we lose these things forever this is a
01:09:57
multi-generational decay that we're starting and
so if we care about the state i love california
01:10:03
i love san francisco i love how eclectic and
unique and different it is i was always happy to pay 10 11 12 13 14 because it was worth
it now i don't know what we get for it and
01:10:14
so i think we i think i think he should
get recalled i just think he's he's trash
01:10:20
and yeah and just to just underscore the point
on lockdowns um we now have certainly more cases
01:10:27
we have more deaths and we have more deaths per
capita than florida despite the fact that florida
01:10:34
has no lockdowns and a much older population and
so i was just in florida a few weeks ago like um
01:10:41
you know like chemoth was saying you know suarez
the mayor there has created really a land of the
01:10:46
free i mean it's really unbelievable you can go to
bars you can go to restaurants there's no lockdown whatsoever they don't have as big a problem as
california does right now why do you think that
01:10:55
is because well because i think that the last
scientific basis yeah i think the lockdowns
01:11:01
only forestalled the problem um eventually the
virus finds a way around them and i also think the thing that's happening in florida is that
okay so my aunt lives there she's in her 70s
01:11:11
she's not going to bars and restaurants because
she knows she's highly at risk and so just because the government doesn't lock down doesn't mean that
people don't take sensible precautions on their
01:11:20
own and so and so i think that what's happened is
that people are going out to bars and restaurants
01:11:26
are low risk and they're keeping the economy going
over there and instead in california we have this very draconian lockdown policy and has put all
these small businesses out of out of work no no
01:11:35
it's worth it it's not a draconian lockdown policy
it's a whip saw at oh it's open okay great now go and invest in a bunch of cat-backs to make sure
there's outdoor dining oh hold on you're closed
01:11:45
what is that that's just that's just stupid tons
of restaurant bar owners in san francisco spent
01:11:50
on average 30 thousand dollars building outdoor
seating for their facility only to have it all shut down three and a half weeks later incompetent
i mean can you imagine being an owner of that
01:11:59
business what the it's unfair no i mean you
would literally they're going to kill themselves
01:12:05
people will lose everything and there'll
be suicides depression domestic violence and then this guy's having dinner at french
laundry during the whole i mean it's just such a
01:12:13
watch i just got a note what about that he
will he's he's actually been banished from being at the french laundry apparently it's
been renamed the sri lankan laundry and some
01:12:24
notable sri lankan billionaire has bought
the french laundry french laundry by the way
01:12:30
they got a 2.6 million dollar ppp lawn that got
forgiven so you know there's a there's a lot of heat on the french laundry as a whole what
does it cost to go to french laundry 800 a
01:12:39
person anybody who wants who's listening to
this who wants to go to the french laundry stay at home pour a bunch of salt on whatever
you're gonna eat okay melt a stick of butter
01:12:49
in the microwave stick a butter in the microwave
drink it and then basically take fifteen hundred dollars light it on fire you've been to the
french laundry you're welcome here's what you
01:12:58
do take a really great steak trash and throw out
percent of it that places and put the cube in the
01:13:05
middle of a big large plate that is that that's
not even nouveau riche it's just nouveau stupid
01:13:11
oh i got trash meanwhile people are down in like
texas getting like a a brisket burrito for four
01:13:19
dollars but i think california really needs to
fix this we need to figure out what's going on and
01:13:25
i just want to ask one more question
of you guys you don't think that this um you know because i was having this debate
with my family about newsome and i was telling
01:13:32
them about the perspectives i was hearing from
tech people and why everyone's so against newsome and i've heard all these different things that
you guys have shared today and you know they're
01:13:40
very you know and i'm hearing a lot of people kind
of making the counterpoint like this is a very um
01:13:45
difficult time it's been an impossible year for
everyone everywhere so first of all you know new
01:13:51
sim was dealt a pretty difficult hand to play and
at the same time we are all psychologically primed
01:13:58
to look for grass being greener on the other side
i think a big part of you know certainly there's a lot of people leaving california my belief for
texas and florida primarily because of taxes
01:14:07
and then you justify it with all the things that
are wrong with california but we're all really primed right now um with this notion that that
it's a difficult place to be but we're also really
01:14:18
having a shitty year we've had this pandemic
businesses have been shut you know everyone's sick the economy is having issues i mean you know
this was a really difficult hand that's been dealt
01:14:27
well i i don't buy that as an excuse for newsome
i mean look it is true that we're going through a
01:14:32
very difficult time but the reason i don't buy
that as an excuse for newsom is because this is not april or may of 2020 when we thought the
fatality rate was seven percent right and you know
01:14:42
lockdowns could lock downs could be justified then
but we now have so much more data we've seen that
01:14:48
states that did not do lockdowns like florida and
texas frankly have been no worse off than those that have done very severe lockdowns and so what
is the point of continuing with this facade um and
01:14:58
that is what i think we can legitimately
blame newsome for is the failure to learn and to change courses based on data to adapt and
where is the last briefing on most of the spread
01:15:12
is not happening at businesses it's happening in
homes and in california we have a particularly difficult problem because of multi-generational
family homes especially in the latino communities
01:15:21
that have been hardest hit by kovit and the um
the transmission just with diabetes as well but
01:15:28
yeah the transmission rate in those communities
is three to five x what it is elsewhere um and
01:15:33
i think you know and that is not a result of
businesses being open in fact those communities are also suffering the biggest hardships because
businesses are closed well by the way this goes
01:15:43
to the vaccination strategy just being so idiotic
like you know if you wanted to be equitable then
01:15:48
why weren't we just rolling through and basically
getting those families to be vaccinated first
01:15:53
independent of age you know you're you're you yeah
apparently those are all these vaccination sites
01:15:59
nobody shows up i spoke to sfdph uh department of
public health about this last week and they told
01:16:04
me that they cannot get those communities
they're very non-trusting of the vaccine and they're having a real struggle getting people
to sign up to take the vaccine the problem is even
01:16:12
if that is the case the problem is you should not
be holding up vaccines for one community then get
01:16:18
everybody else vaccinated so they overheat you cut
the head off this [ __ ] transmission over 60 gets
01:16:24
it that's it there's nothing to discuss let's wrap
it up everyone everyone gets it but you allocate a certain number of doses to you you basically
have like a tsa pre-check line if you're over 60
01:16:33
or you're in certain communities you jump to the
front of the line and that's it but everyone can stand in line and put [ __ ] shots in arms because
everyone i know that's over 65 can't even get an
01:16:41
appointment and it's [ __ ] um and the whole thing
is it's incompetence so i think but i think what
01:16:47
sack said is so right it's like in these moments
jacal uh and friedberg like a light gets sean on
01:16:54
the ability for people to figure things out and
then you know what the intellectual capability
01:17:00
of these people are and like look we saw the
intellectual incapability of trump because we all
01:17:07
stopped this guy could not adapt okay and um and
so we are now seeing the intellectual incapability
01:17:14
of gavin newsom and i just think they're they're
part of the same lot they're just kind of
01:17:19
you know people who are um in over their head
and they're beholden to people who got them there
01:17:26
and their number one concern is staying in office
which means appeasing a bunch of special interests
01:17:31
uh speaking of special interest david sachs is
still on tilt about uh conservatives being uh
01:17:38
canceled uh david you wanted us to wrap with this
uh wilkinson cancellation so every uh podcast
01:17:44
we're going to have a right winger who's canceled
and david's justification for putting them back on the platform god david well actually so yeah this
is this is this is the uh issue of the week with
01:17:56
david yes yes it's well this is actually it's
not a it's not a left wing it so this is the
01:18:02
issue to draw on social media right now is that
a writer named will wilkinson was just fired from his job and canceled but here's the thing it was
he's not a conservative he's actually a liberal
01:18:11
what and it was a yes and it was a right-wing
tweet mob that got together to get him fired
01:18:18
yes and so how did you get this mop together to
get him cancelled explain it uh yeah so we're back
01:18:26
everybody so much for the wives dinner my gosh
yeah i'm gonna need another wives dinner well
01:18:31
no i look i i feel the need to speak out on this
because i gotta make it really clear that i do not support cancel culture when perpetrated by the
right against the left i think it's what did he do
01:18:42
okay so he posted a tweet making a joke that maybe
was important not that funny basically saying
01:18:48
that if we want unity the one thing that like the
trumpers and the bind supporters can agree on is hanging pence you know it's what it's hanging
lynching minecraft lynching senses what's that
01:19:00
do you use the word lynching or hanging he said he
said hang i think no i think he said i said hang
01:19:06
on maybe a taste and it's inciting violence on
the march because it's in poor taste yeah well no
01:19:12
look it it's it's a it's a it's a joke that's not
actually that funny and maybe in poor taste what he's referring to is the fact that the you know
that there were people on january 6 who were going
01:19:22
after mike pence right that was sort of the joke
anyway look he that's not the point he deleted it
01:19:28
he apologized for it his bosses still fired him
for it nobody believes that he was trying to
01:19:33
incite violence okay i mean come on we all know
that was not inciting violence but um but the
01:19:41
mob pretended that he was in order to create
its phony outrage and then his bosses have to
01:19:48
uh pretend that caterpillar doesn't yeah in
order to appease the mob and they pretend like it was incitement to violence so they
can fire him and then he even had to pretend
01:19:58
that he was inciting violence because he
had to then objectively apologize for it and there's this that's the thing about cancer
culture i really don't like is just it's just so
01:20:06
fake and phony we all have to pretend and
things that aren't true in order to pacify
01:20:11
some you know tweet mob whose outrage is
manufactured anyway and i don't like seeing
01:20:16
the right doing this um and that's what i tweeted
about and then we had all these people on the right responding to me saying an eye for an eye
you know you know the left deserves this too now
01:20:25
they're gonna get a taste of their own medicine
and the problem with that is look you know you're you might win this particular battle but you're
losing the war because you're now buying into
01:20:34
the premise of cancelled culture you're now buying
into this idea that we need to economically cancel
01:20:40
people who disagree with us and i i really
reject that it's certainly bad timing to say
01:20:47
lynch or hang whichever word he used
obviously lynching is a much worse word uh after people were chanting hang mike
pence but he was making a commentary on that
01:20:56
the joke didn't land and when the joke doesn't
land you need to just take ownership of that and say that you shouldn't be canceled you just
say it was a poor attempted humor i apologize
01:21:05
right and jason you know better than anybody
else is when a joke doesn't land so yeah i mean
01:21:13
here's one thing to learn about comedy people
don't remember the jokes that don't land they they remember the ones that land okay everybody
it's like investing in startups it's like
01:21:21
you've got a lot of losers to find the few winners
absolutely that's my i'm a volume guy you know that uh governor moth.com governorsacks.com
governorfreeberg.com and government sorry can i
01:21:31
just say jason jason if if newsom is recalled i i
would like to put my name on the ballot and my my
01:21:36
commitments are quite simple i just want to i'm
going to cut the taxes to zero and i'm going to basically create an incredibly pro climate change
um jobs and pro tech jobs and pro biotech jobs
01:21:50
economy and i'm going to raise teacher salaries
and i'm going to give everybody a school
01:21:55
can we maybe maybe maybe on the next episode we
can all uh declare that we're running for governor
01:22:01
and present our platforms oh let's do that let's
do that next friday all right go to governor.com
01:22:22
love you besties love you saks back at you we'll let your winners ride rain man david
01:22:50
besties we should all just get a room and just have one
big huge orgy because they're all just useless
01:23:14
we need to get i'm going on